Meet the New Boggs, Same As the Old Boggs
Okay, so the title is probably a little bit harsher than the situation actually calls for, but I liked it too much to pass up. Besides, watching that last night hurt, enough that I think we all deserve a little venting of the collective spleen. Then again, no matter how irritating it may have been watching Mitchell Boggs 2011 turn briefly back into his 2009 version, the frustration probably has far more to do with the bullpen as a whole than it does Boggsy himself.
It's always difficult to keep perspective in a case like this, no matter how hard you try. After all, that may have been the first save Boggs failed to convert this season, but that doesn't lend a whole lot of comfort when the voice in the back of your mind wants to scream about five blown saves already. And not 2008 30-something-saves-including-all-the-relievers-just-because-it-sounds-so-ridiculously awful, but 5 real blown saves, games in which the Cardinals held a lead in the ninth inning and managed to lose. Those five saves, those fives losses, well, they're the difference between being 12-11 and 17-6. It's tough to shut that out when trying to hold on to perspective.
Still, though, it was one bad night. One game Mitchell Boggs didn't have his stuff working and got bitten by the old BABIP bug a bit as well. This wasn't Ryan Franklin meatballin' it, by any means. This was Boggs failing in the way we know he will probably occasionally fail, and the only real argument against him closing: his command can still desert him at times.
That's not to say the game wasn't immensely frustrating, of course. The defense sprung a couple leaks, and not from the spots we expected. David Freese has been a rock defensively this season, but has made a couple bad plays in recent contests. He makes that play in the sixth, and Jaime Garcia cruises on out of the inning on a double play. The Astros don't take the lead, and the rest of the game likely plays out differently. Boggs made his own error in the ninth and couldn't pitch around it. It's tough to swallow.
In the end, though, I'm not honestly concerned about Mitchell Boggs closing. Not yet, anyway. Hopefully he'll get a chance to climb right back on the horse and close the game down very soon, and firmly put to rest any notion of pressing the panic button.
I may not be concerned about Boggsy, but there are two other players I'm concerned about this morning, and I'll tell you who they are.
One, is anyone else worried about Yadier Molina? I'm sure I'll take plenty of flak for this, but something just doesn't look right with him this season. Balls that he's blocked in the past are going for wild pitches and passed balls in 2011. He looks slow in going after them. His throwing has been decidedly un-Yadi-like for the most part. A while back, either here or on some other blog, I read someone say Molina looked lazy this year. I'm very hesitant to go down that road; poor performance always looks like laziness to a certain type of observer. Still, though, Molina doesn't look good to me this season. When a player who derives his value almost solely from his defense is no longer making the plays, what value does he have left?
What I wonder about Molina most of all is the possibility his heavy workload is beginning to creep up on him. Is he hurt? Is he just worn down? Or is there something else going on? The man has caught an awful lot of ballgames the last few years, and it makes me wonder if Yadi is heading for a premature decline. After all, time may spare no one its ravages, but there seems to be an extra dose of vindictive bastard queued up for those who don the tools of ignorance. I'm not ready to send Molina off to the glue factory yet by any means, but I would be lying if I said I didn't watch the catchers in the minors with a little extra interest, just in case.
The other concern I have is Miguel Batista. Namely, the fact he continues to exist as part of the Cardinals' roster, and more specifically, as a part of the roster regularly given the chance to ruin good situations. Was there any doubt in anyone's mind last night Batista was going to cough up the lead?
Dan already touched on the bizarreness (or is it bizarrity? I like bizarrousity personally.), of Tony La Russa's fascination with Batista in the postgame thread, so I won't tread heavily down that path again. However, when you have a pitcher in Fernando Salas who has shown such a talent for escaping from jams that he should come into the game wearing a cape and top hat and you instead turn to Miguel Batista to come in and throw his standard fastball in the direction of the plate, something has gone seriously awry with your judgement.
I can live with Mitchell Boggs failing to execute. What I have a much harder time accepting is seeing a poor decision put the team (not to mention the reliever in question), in a position to fail.
I considered an alternate title for this post: Back to The Old Drawing Board, mostly because it makes me laugh to picture La Russa as Wile E. Coyote trying to come up with some way of closing out games. Boggs fails, and he stomps back to the clubhouse, where a chalkboard is filled with scribbles and arcane equations, all of which feature a stick of dynamite drawn somewhere in the middle.
"Well, back to the old drawing board," Tony sighs, erasing his latest batch of calculations. He picks up the phone, stabs at the numbers for Acme, and orders another closer, one that won't break this time. A few days later a catapult shows up in front of the Musial statue, guaranteed to close out games. That night, come the ninth inning, La Russa and Duncan wheel the siege engine out to the mound, tell it to strike out Jonny Gomes, and then run off to hide behind a nearby rock. The catapult draws back its great arm to hurl the baseball with unstoppable force, and then, in defiance of all known laws of physics, flips over upside down, rotating around the axis of the ball, and crushes the two coaching legends hiding behind the rock as Gomes trots around the bases.
After peeling himself out from under the newly inverted catapult, La Russa stalks off to his office once again to change the chalkboard and call customer service to complain. He gets the complaint lady from Acme on the phone, introduces himself as Tone E. La Russa, Super Genius, and the whole cycle starts all over again.
The closer position is unique in baseball, because it's so much more likely than other positions to be singled out for losses. When a starter gives up four runs and loses, he didn't have a great night, but the offense has got to pick him up. When a hitter isn't hitting, there are seven other guys in the lineup who should be helping pick up the slack. The closer, though, when he fails you don't generally get much in the way of comeback opportunities. It's tough to close games, if only because you know they're going to turn on you eventually.
Still, those five games the Cardinals have given away didn't all come last night. There is still reason for optimism in the bullpen, so let's all look on the bright side.
Meep meep.
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I caught the box score and was depressed for just a bit
But really, I was depressed ’cause of what I was afraid TLR might do.
That's a legitimate concern,
but I have hope Tony will let Boggsy play it out a bit longer, or maybe even toss Sanchez a bite or two of the apple. He seems quite smitten with the kid. (Aren’t we all….)
I feast on the bones of trolls.
by the red baron on Apr 27, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I may have used the "lazy" moniker for yadi earlier this season
I think “disinterested” is probably more apropos. Unless, or course, he’s rounding the bases after hitting a 3 run homerun. The passed balls are a major concern for me. Lack of concentration? I don’t know, but I agree, something seems off with yadi.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update:
16.2 IP, 21 K, 9 BB/HBP, 4 ER, 2.27 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Apr 27, 2011 8:52 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
i agree, but would say he looks
unathletic
just slower to react in so many situations
we all know, though, its the new tats that angered the GOB
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
Just about last night
Bogg’s command was really off. Sometimes the pitch ended up a foot and a half away from where the glove was set. Maybe part of last night was partly due to pitcher. I think the same about throwing out runners. It’s highly dependent upon the pitcher.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
I said something similar about his hitting during the 2nd week
He strikes me as not being interested in improving anymore and resting on his laurels. Granted, his hitting has improved lately, but too often last year and at the start of this season, he seemed to just abandon anything he ever did that was successful except for the notion that he could get some piece of the bat on any pitch thrown in any location.
Has this same attitude crept into his defense? I suppose it’s possible.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
maybe he's still upset
that they didn’t pick up his brother.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
isn't it 6 blown saves?
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/article_506f3b84-70c4-11e0-93ad-0019bb30f31a.html
Not to further expose the wound, but you mentioned 5 several times and it’s worse I’m afraid to say.
Forgive me.
I specifically meant five blown saves by our closer, in the ninth inning. I should have been more specific. You are correct, though, it is technically six blown saves. I was talking about five games in which the Cardinals have had a lead in the ninth inning and lost. My apologies.
I feast on the bones of trolls.
by the red baron on Apr 27, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Meet your new (old) closer
Ryan F. Franklin! Hells yeah.
We are so screwed as Cardinals fans this year I think
I don't think even Tony would go there
If he pulls Boggs after one so-so performance, then he’s a hypocrite of the highest order
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update:
16.2 IP, 21 K, 9 BB/HBP, 4 ER, 2.27 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Apr 27, 2011 9:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think LaRussa would either actually
but I’m preparing myself for the worst just in case it gets there.
by WizardofOz1982 on Apr 27, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
i agree this is a case when he should have left motte in
his fascination the one guy, no matter what he says, that seems like the hard way for a guy to get acclimated
maybe i’m too gentle, but i think we are in a situation where we ride the hot horse and don’t change midstream for theoretical reasons
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
i had no issues taking motte out
But I don’t like leaving any relievers except for the long man in for more than one inning.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
hypocrite? no
he’s gone out of his way not to declare a closer.
inconsistent? maybe. But considering franklin’s long-term reign os the official closer, you’d expect a longer leash there.
na
we are tied with the for best run differential in MLB. I think that is and will continue to be pretty fun.
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
happy Carp birthday everyone!
luggage all around
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
I'd just like to mention that on the day gdm reappeared on the blog, we started blowing saves again.
He’s cursed I tells ya, CURSED….
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Also, Azru wanted to change his avatar away from the robot.
All kinds of bad VEB mojo…
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
away from the robot
to what?!
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
Something Archer related.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Apr 27, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
why would someone do this
when they have two good arms?
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
we'd be headin into the
DAANNGER ZONE if he did that
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
by tgreenfield on Apr 27, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
when was the last WS the Cards won while Azru's avatar was the robot?
Skip Schumaker fields like a goat wearing capes
I'm confident that Boggs isn't going to be pulled from closing just yet
he’ll get a chance to blow one or two in the next few days before the next man is called up.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
can anyone fill me in the batista decision?
i did not see any of the game and would love to direct my anger at tlr instead of boggs.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 27, 2011 9:16 AM EDT reply actions
Like "why was Batista brought in with the bases loaded?"
I don’t think anyone here can answer that.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Makes sense.
Augenstein is on the DL.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Apr 27, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
heh
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
by tgreenfield on Apr 27, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Age before beauty
er, talent
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it mattered
who was brought in last night. It was just Karma.
Freese had something to do with the loss as well.
I’m not a numbers guy, so, does anyone know what the success rate is of a pitcher coming in with bases loaded and less than 2 out?
It almost seems like Batista comes in when the situation is ripe to fail or a fall guy is needed.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
There isn't a high success rate.
It’s about as high a leverage situation you can get. Which is why it might be a good idea to bring in a 14k/9 type guy who can sink or swim on his own, rather than a contact pitcher and hope he gets lucky.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
I agree.
it was actually a rhetorical question. Thanks for the answer. I don’t know if anyone else would have been successful either, though. Maybe Motte, but, as much as I’ve slammed TLR in the past I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt here. He had his reasons but it just didn’t work out. It didn’t take him long (compared to Izzy) to pull the plug on Franklin, so I can’t bitch too much yet. He’s juggling. If it keeps happening then there may be a problem.
Defense also failed last night and bad things happen. Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
you are not very good at posing rhetorical questions
that really sounded like you wanted an answer
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
add that to the list
of the things I’m not good at.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
From 1993-2010,
Bases loaded and one out yields on average 1.63 runs with a 67.9% chance that at least one run will score.
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
that sounds about right. Thanx
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Garcia was struggling and had just loaded the bases and given up a run.
Batista comes in, gives up a 2 run single.
The reasoning behind the decision obviously was because TLR.
/end scene
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Garcia was at 91 pitches.
I don’t have a problem with him yanking Garcia, but putting in Batista in another story…
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
mostly batista, but
what’s with trever?
his fail rate is going up rapidly
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
Good question.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
I feel like TLR is an easy and accurate target
but many many miscues all over. so it goes with this team.
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
by tgreenfield on Apr 27, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I've watched a few Cards games this years thanks to my MLB package....
…and Yadi looks fine to me – he’s still throwing out runners and calling a good game. He cud use a few moore games off, cowever. Perhaps they should designate Laird to caddy to a specific pitcher, so Yadi has a structured day off as well as any games Laird rotates into the schedule. Maybe work Craig as a catcher a couple of times? Odder things have happened…
Griebenschmaltz!
Especially because Laird has looked good, udderly enough!
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
i want a refund!
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
by prophetjohn on Apr 27, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
no cycle, no mention
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
with the night he was having...
he should have pitched in the 9th.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
1 IP 3 K 9 pitches
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
when you score 5 runs, the offense wasn't the problem
However, when the best player in the game is out, and your starting 1-2 guys fail to get on base, you have to be lucky to score 5 runs.
Mo needs to cut Batista when Talent comes back to prevent this from happening anymore. Tony can’t be trusted to use him correctly.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
i think tlr and jmo want batista to be useful
he hasn’t been, so i suspect he is on a long leash, at least one that stretched until augenstein is ready
no beed for both of those guys on the 25-man
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
The biggest problem with Batista being on the roster is that Ryan Franklin declined to Batista levels.
So, now we have two aging righty relievers that are pretty redundant. The manager insists on putting one of them in tight situations and he doesn’t have the skill to get out of them without surrendering runs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Apr 27, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or, assuming everything else is equal...
There’s a 28% chance that it will happen, and more likely a 40% chance (adjusting for LOOGY and closer roles).
That’s before TLR’s opinion is factored in.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Good Morning VEB...noting like getting awakened by a 50 foot oak tree falling on your house.
Hope everyone else’s morning was not as exciting.
glad to see it didn't hit your computer.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Must not have breached the basement.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
heh, i want to rec this but i feel it's inappropriate until i know how you are and how much damage the house took
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
I had the same thought. Funny comment.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
We're fine, and the house is insured.
Crushed a 20 foot section of the roof and wall, basically the laundry room, part of the dining room and the garage, and theres a 6 foot hole where a giant crashed thru the roof and ceiling. This was a big fucking tree.
No damage to the cars, nor unfortunately to my girlfriends dumbass dog. Mom’s basement and computer okay.
by RollBirdsRoll on Apr 27, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That should read "giant limb" crashed thru the roof and ceiling.
Didn’t want anyone to think Tim Lincecum fell thru the roof.
by RollBirdsRoll on Apr 27, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I was imagining the Jolly Green variety.
In which case you’d have a more serious problem on your hands than a storm.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah right
It would be Pablo Sandoval
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
how did that even happen?
did the tree wake up this morning and think ah fuck it, i don’t wanna do this anymore and killed itself taking your roof with it or was there a storm
and what kind of dog is it?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
by d-dee on Apr 27, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
are you in the st. louis area?
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
well then
I wont offer to buy the tree off of you. Hopefully your house isn’t too badly damaged.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
Heh
“buy it off of you” ha. I get it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Apr 27, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Safe, for now. Predicting really violent and long track tornado outbreak for this afternoon and night,
so probably not dry. Battening down the hatches as much as we can.
by RollBirdsRoll on Apr 27, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That 9th inning play log is brutal to read...
glad I didn’t stay up to watch it…
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
is it me
or did yadi have no idea where jaime’s pitches were going lastnight? jaime seemed to be shaking him off a lot too… was this a jaime problem, a yadi problem or just one of those games?
by Birds on the Matt on Apr 27, 2011 9:55 AM EDT reply actions
Hey, look at that, another Matt.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Apr 27, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd say so. Not even borderline either.
I only see one post.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Apr 27, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
264 comments...
I don’t know what RR’s limit is this week.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Yadi
does seem to be a little off. Maybe he needs to lose about 15 lbs.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
maybe it's just me
but it looks like he’s already a little slimmer than last year
by Handsome B Wonderful on Apr 27, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he's not exactly huge right now.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
yea, I know.
but he just seems a little slow, and although he’s not huge he still seems a little heavy to me. Let’s just hope he regains GG form.
I’ve been waiting for that pick off move of his and wondering why we haven’t seen it…till last night.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Yadier Molina
I agree, RB. Of course, I feel like Molina has slowly declined over the last couple of seasons with this season so far being worse than the previous ones. I don’t know if he is worn out or becoming complacent or what. It’s incredible to me that I’m thinking about how Yadier Molina may be in an age decline.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
MUST DRAFT A CATCHER
TRADE FOR POSEY. AHHHHHHHHH???!!!!
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update:
16.2 IP, 21 K, 9 BB/HBP, 4 ER, 2.27 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Apr 27, 2011 10:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Tony Cruz=gerald laird?
I don’t know. I could be underestimating him
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update:
16.2 IP, 21 K, 9 BB/HBP, 4 ER, 2.27 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Apr 27, 2011 10:08 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Think they'd give us Poser for Kozma? Tejada is struggling...
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
(joke) And I didn't mean to call him poser, either. He's terrific. Double-fail.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
(got the joke) He is terrific!
not sure the ladies in STL can handle his charming looks just yet…but they will need someone to help them get over Skip’s future DFA (who’s smoking the pipe now?)
That's true. He's a little too handsome.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
We'd better offer to throw in Stav too
Since he can play catcher, and they’d need a replacement for Posey.
GET ON THE PHONE MO
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I think Stav had the GW RBI yesterday for Memphis.
Put that in a footnote to the proposal.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
It'd be a great trade for them.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
This is a guy who's a winner
He’s known for coming through in clutch situations.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Correction.
Center the presentation around that and the HR last year off of Hoffman.
/Boras’d
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Stavinoha isn't at all chunky. He just uses mass to stabilize his center of balance.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
it is Brian Sabean
he did trade nathan, liriano, and future hall of famer(the hall of fame for awesome names, that is) boof bosner for the insufferable douche known as aj pierzynski
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
by tgreenfield on Apr 27, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
what's chris duncan doing?
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
by prophetjohn on Apr 27, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Being a talking head
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I found myself wondering if he was suffering from some post-concussive symptoms...
slower reaction times, bordering on sluggishness, etc.
He’s the warrior type, so maybe he’s keeping it to himself and trying to tough his way through it. I dunno. Just speculation.
Yup
And he’s had like 2 passed balls this season,with the one last night being on a 40 foot pitch. I see no legitimate reason to be concerned.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 1:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No, the passed ball last night was on an inside pitch he should have got to. The 40 ft one, he actually blocked IIRC
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No the 40 foot one allowed the tying run to score iirc
I don’t remember another one. Regardless it’s only a couple instances. This would be like saying pujols was in decline because he struck out 3 times in a game.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 2:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I remember one getting by that was just off to the left, but yeah, your point stands about sample size.
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just watched the condensed game
2 WP,1 PB, 1 other dropped pitch that should’ve been a PB while Garcia was in, and Boggs’ ridiculous WP.
On the Garcia curveball WP, Yadi just took a bad backhand stab at it. He either didn’t know it was coming, or didn’t put out a real effort.
wait, I thought it was common knowledge Pujols was in decline?
since he’s off the juice and all.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
and born in Kenya
wait, who are we talking about again?
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
the 40 footer was correctly scored a wild pitch
the inside pitch that he missed was correctly scored a passed ball.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Colby needs to get back on track.
In his last 8 games, he’s hitting .167/.235/.267 and has 9 strikeouts. In two of those games, he’s struck out 3 times. He does have a HR and 5 RBI during that span, but he’s not hitting or getting on base nearly enough.
Now is the time to see if he has really progressed as a hitter and can get himself out of this funk without screwing with his stance, mechanics, etc.
The book on him right now seems to be soft stuff down, out of the strike zone.
this
When they brought in Pujols (expecting him to get walked), they were essentially putting the game (at that point) on Colby’s shoulders. The problem is that Colby was 0-4 on the night and 0-4 against Fulchino. Why not let Tyler Greene bat?
"Defense is important to this team," second baseman Skip Schumaker said.
I would rather have the game's fortunes resting on the bat of Rasmus than Greene,
regardless of whether he is 0 for 4 in a game and against the opposing pitcher.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Why not have Pujols bat for the pitcher instead of Hamilton?
Then the IBB gets us 1st and 2nd with 1 out instead of 1st and 2nd with 2 out. Either that or they pitch to Pujols.
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
This reasoning rests on the premise that TLR had looked at the situations,
considered all of his options, and made the best decision with the initial pinch hitter.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
And not walking anymore.
Might be the first streaky walker I can remember.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
It's like 3 games!!!
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, this is the first time in his career he has been streaky.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
I'm just saying that he has had 3 bad games in a row
Does not mean he’s in a bad streak, it just means he’s had three games. Literally ever player in the history of the game has had multiple instances of bad 3 game stretches.
And besides, in Rasmus’ case, past streakiness doens’t actually mean he’s a streaky player:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/streakiness/
(There is much more research to support this, this is just the first one I found).
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that talking about inconsistent results only?
Because it seems to me that he’s been taking inconsistent at bats
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I don't know what that means
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
it means msyterui beleives
That Colby’s approach is changing from at-bat to at-bat.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
Pujols pinch hit appearance
I understand the argument to extend the inning to the big bats, but if Pujols wasn’t healthy enough to start the game, how is he healthy enough to run the bases and play defense for a couple innings? Didn’t they announce at the beginning of the game that he would only be availabe to PH? Did his availability change based on game situation?
by Handsome B Wonderful on Apr 27, 2011 10:24 AM EDT reply actions
he was healthy enough to start the game
But they decided the err on the side of don’t get pujols injured in his contract year.
they announced that he would be available to PH. Left out the only part.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
Yes. Once he PH'd for Greene, he had to stay at 1B.
Unless, they could have brought in Laird to catch and moved Yadi to 1B? (Reaching here…)
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
OT: Because I was watching Sportscenter....
in all the sports coverage in all the land, there is nothing I hate more than NFL draft coverage. Can someone please explain to me why it is important that for 5 months we speculate about which team is taking who? They take who they take. I realize a lot of sports coverage falls into this category of inconsequential time-wasting speculative bullshit where a bunch of asshats sit around and talk about what might happen, but NFL draft coverage really takes the take. I hate it so, so much.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Apr 27, 2011 10:31 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Because football is the most popular sport in America.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
You may get an argument from the NASCAR fans.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
You talk about a bunch of asshats...
those guys with all their fancy equipment and electronics… to catch a fish. A fish.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
I don't see what is so asshat-ish about that, really
I mean, if it’s fun, and people enjoy doing it and watching it, who cares? Mankind has found all sorts of more efficient ways to do things over the course of history, so why should fishing be any different?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Efficiency eventually destroys the sporting element...
and they’ve taken it to such absurd ends, the fact they can’t see how excessive it all is just makes them look like fools.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
I think it just makes it seem like they really enjoy catching lots of fish
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
correct. as opposed to it seeming like they really enjoy fishing.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
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It's just a really weird form of fishing though
I don’t have any problems with people pursuing leisure activities that are descended from activities that were once for survival.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I don't have a problem with it. I just think it's goofy to use all those electronics.
Maybe it’s just because I romanticize fishing a bit (I don’t do it, but it always seemed like something I’d enjoy very much were it not for my vegetarian ways).
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It's a completely different beast, to be sure
I doubt I could ever be all that interested in that kind of fishing. Regular old, “I’m going to have fun trying to catch some fish, and then either eat them or throw them back in the water” is a nice way to spend time though.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
sounds nice. My daughter has not been digesting soy or dairy well.
If this continues, we may have to change our dietary habits and I’ll be asking for pointers. I bet there are some great fishermen and women here at VEB.
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Almond!
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nah. $2.95 per half.
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(price war between almond breeze and the new brand)
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yeah, and I get flooded with coupons as well.
Maybe it’s because I’m in a college town?
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Do rice or almonds have teats?
I didn’t thinks so.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
OED says
2. a. A milky juice or latex present in the stems or other parts of various plants, which exudes when the plant is cut, and is often acrid, irritant, or toxic. Also: spec. the drinkable watery liquid found in the hollow space inside the fruit of the coconut.
tiger’s milk: see tiger n.
OE tr. Pseudo-Apuleius Herbarium (Vitell.) cx. 154 Wið weartan genim þysse ylcan wyrte [sc. spurge’s] meolc & clufþungan wos, do to þære weartan.
meolc=milk, so used to refer to plant secretions for 1500 years or so.
BAM!
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I also have a study.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I honestly haven't gone in years
In fact, the only times I have gone were when I was a kid, and I didn’t have as much patience back then as I do now, obviously. So I would probably enjoy it way more as an adult. Also, I could drink a beer or two now and couldn’t exactly do that as an 11-year old.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Well, I could have, I guess... especially with my uncles
Probably a good thing I went with my grandpa and not them.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
reminds me of this joke
a good day of fishing is when you get to drink some beer and catch some fish.
a great day of fishing is when the damn fish leave you alone so you can drink.
"Defense is important to this team," second baseman Skip Schumaker said.
by Hootie Who on Apr 27, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that's me.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
new-age bass fishing is
"I’m going to have funtrying tocatching some fish, and then either eat them or throw them back in the water."
I don’t see why this is any less worthwhile.
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
Yeah, and that's great for the people who enjoy that
I"m just saying it’s not something I would enjoy that much.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'm basically trying to get guayzimi
to talk about why increased efficiency in bass fishing is bad but making the soccer goal bigger is a necessity. This requires the leap that catching fish is roughly equal to scoring.
Lightly trolling.
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
Catching bass with all these gizmos is too easy...
scoring goals is too hard. Changes must be made.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
i fished once
caught a fish
threw it back
it splish-splash swum away and was fine
had fun
see no reason why a vegetarian won’t be able to do the same without any guilt
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
Inflicts pain without a necessity to do so.
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I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
you step on ants, kill spiders and mice and roaches, don't you?
but i get it. kinda. if i wanted to eat fish, i’d have to buy it, i won’t be able to eat one i caught. it’s weird, really, because normally, i am a rather rational human being..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
Actually...
No, I don’t. I catch mice live and take them to the woods. I leave spiders be unless they’re poisonous, then I’ll kill them if I don’t feel comfortable trying to catch them, but this crosses the necessity thresh-hold for me.
But like I said, if my daughter can’t eat soy or dairy and we determine it is necessary to eat shellfish and fish, I’ll do it (and I’ll eat them with her. I don’t think it would be nice to say “we don’t eat these because we don’t want to hurt animals, but YOU have to!”)
I’ll definitely fish if we do eat them. I don’t see a reason not to in that case.
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what kind of allergy (?) is what your daughter has?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
It would be an intolerance rather than allergy.
We’re not 100% sure yet, though.
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isn't there debate about fish feeling pain?
they can respond to physical stimuli obviously, but i thought it was unclear if they have a developed enough nerve system to register pain.
Not really. There's debate to the extent that it's very difficult to prove anything feels pain.
For instance, I can’t KNOW that you feel pain. However, fish do have brains with nerve centers and it would make sense for them to feel pain evolutionarily-speaking, since they can do something about it. Morphine works on them. They certainly appear to have the capacity for fear as well.
Lots of new studies in the works, fwiw.
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Also, pain aside
it definitely stresses them the fuck out
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
here's a link to the summary of a recent study.
http://news.uns.purdue.edu/x/2009a/090429GarnerPain.html
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It also stands to reason that pitchers probably have to work a little harder these days to be successful, what with all of the modern strength training, nutrition, drug abuse, tape-watching, analysis, and preparation that hitters have at their disposal. Albert Pujols (and others) routinely go into the clubhouse immediately after at bats to review the tape on how the pitcher got him out. If you could go back in time and take Nap Lajoie into a room after Rube Waddell K’d him on three pitches and show him a glowing box with a video replay of the at bat, he would call you a demon, slit your throat, tear out his eyes, and generally freak the fuck out. It’s a different game, these days.
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
by all4tookie on Apr 27, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it seems very much against the spirit of what has been the essence of the sport for (literally!) millenia.
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Eh
I totally agree. I certainly don’t consider it a sport in the way that I think about sports. But how does that make the fishermen asshats? Are they asshats because they think it’s a sport but guayzimi and fink and I disagree?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The "sport or not sport" argument is silly IMO.
I don’t think we need to defend the word “sport” itself by being exclusionary. If fishermen and car drivers would like to call what they do a sport, they can. I just reserve the right to roll my eyes!
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that works for me.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
And I reserve the right to say I don't think they're asshats
YOUR MOVE FINK!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I never called them asshats! More like yuppie goofballs.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
(And I know they're not yuppies, but it was my move, dammit!)
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Aren't they the opposite of yuppies?
guayzimi was the one who made the asshat comment (right? I hope I haven’t lost myself in this thread and forgotten something, it’s happened before)
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I don't know. It's all Yodd to me.
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Those fish...
belong to me and you too… They are common property and I for one want them left alone, or caught in limited numbers to be eaten.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Ummm, what?
We’re all socialists now? I haven’t checked with my dad recently, but last I checked, the government hadn’t seized the family fishing pond. Yet.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Apr 27, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Should I be allowed to go dredge Lake Monona and take every fish out?
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In Iowa,
waters are public property.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
and last time I checked
fishing was still legal in Iowa.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Even ponds contained entirely on private property?
I find that difficult to believe. Navigable, flowing waters, sure, but non-navigable springs/ponds?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Apr 27, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to "wade" too far into politics here...
but socialists believe that all or almost all resources and means of production should be owned collectively.
The recognition that some resources like air, rivers, fish/game populations, etc can’t be privatized due to practical considerations does not make someone socialist.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
by guayzimi on Apr 27, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OK. . .
but it doesn’t follow that all fish are therefore common property. Privately-stocked fishing ponds, catfish farms, etc.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Apr 27, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
please stop
this is going to turn into a clusterfuck
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
Oh sure I agree...
but we’re talking bass fishing and I always see these guys in big boats on large bodies of water that are almost have to be collectively owned and managed by the state.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Oh. . . I see what you did there
“wade”
{chortle}
by SouthsideCardsFan on Apr 27, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh my gosh there are some premium puns being dispensed today
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
yep,
it’s about as sporting as catching butterflies in a net.
At best, fishing is a recreation, IMO.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
However, in English I believe the original meaning of the word “sport” was basically leisure, or recreation. But we think of “sports” as a specific, organized game-based pursuit with at least two competitors trying to beat each other, etc. etc.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
according to the original meaning, then....
drinking is a sport! But my wife doesn’t see me as an athlete. I’ll have to enlighten her.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
You're a competitor!
She’ll come around.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
She's the defense.
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and she's really good at it.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
as sporting as catching butterflies in a laser-calibrated net with precision tracking.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
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Butterflies with frickin' laser beams...
wait, I misread that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
AMEN!
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
it just shouldn't be
considered a sport. A sport should have both offense and defense, at minimum.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
This is the kind of conversation I really enjoy
Because, one, I disagree with your point about offense and defense, and two, I’m not sure we can ever come to a completely satisfactory definition of “sports” even though we all have a general idea of what we agree upon it meaning.
Is footracing a sport? I don’t see any offense or defense, really. I can see the argument for offense, but not defense. How do you defend in a 100 meter dash?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Spike the other guy's drink with PEDs
(The PEDs that do show up in tests, not the ones that don’t — like in your drink.)
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Run like Usain Bolt...
and totally demoralize all in your wake… No, I think the footrace is obviously a sport – probably the original sport – so that kind of speaks against the need for offense/defense.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Yeah, the race is kind of an Ur-sport
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
yea,
each to his/her own definition, I guess.
sport, game, recreation, competition, I suppose is in the eye of the beholder.
However, fishing and hunting only have one willing participant. That has to say something.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Very good point
I think the best we can do is come up with certain sport-categories and (maybe) agree on which games/activities belong in which. I would put golf and billiards, for example, in something like “leisure sports”. I’m not sure what I would do with diving and figure skating. No idea what to call competitive hunting and fishing.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
FWIW
Sports Illustrated in the early days covered hunting and fishing. Checkmate.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Apr 27, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
And the swimsuit issue!
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
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well, it's an athletic activity, but is it a "sport?"
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I think you mean "aesthetic activity"
It definitely fits the older sense of “sport” as leisure or recreation.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
heh. nice.
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Stalemate,
in the early days they needed to, but they don’t anymore.
Baseball and football also isn’t covered in Field and Stream.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
i believe i made this exact argument yesterday
i stand behind my initial definition: physical ability + objective scoring.
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
objective = definite right and wrong
if two judges can come away with different scores and both be right, then that is subjective and therefore not a sport. and with that, i conclude my argument on this subject.
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
they're not both right.
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don't you mean...effishient ways
YEAAAHHHHHHHHHHh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOx7FKBA4Fw&feature=related
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Apr 27, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's as good of a ruling as the last judge made.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
And this place has turned into anarchy since I was ousted from the bench.
Blown saves everywhere, arguments about what is and is not a sport everyday, GDM died, rui has a job, La Russa daughter is a step away from stripping. WAY TO GO, VEB.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Apr 27, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Whoa, guys, is cheerleading a sport?
I mean, they put it on TV and they have winners and loser and stuff.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I was so close to bringing that up yesterday, but decided it wasn't worth it.
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Subjective judging
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
That's not a good litmus test. It's just a handy one for people who don't like gymnastics in the olympics.
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I don't care about whether or not gymnastics are in the Olympics or not
My definition of a sport excludes those that have subjective judging, that’s all
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
It attempts to be objective.
The problem is that there are so many elements that go into a successful, let’s say dive, that it can’t be measured by a watch or a tape-measure.
Saying “it’s not a sport” because what is attempted to be done best among competitors is complex seems arbitrary.
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I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
The way I feel about it:
If the goal of the sport is so complex that it becomes that difficult to determine the actual winner, then I don’t feel comfortable putting it in the same category of what I think of as “sports”. d-dee brings up umpiring below, and I think that’s a good point to bring up, but determining whether a runner’s foot touched home plate and he actually scored a run, or whether a basketball went into a basket, are way more easily done than deciding who had the best figure skating routine, when they’re not even doing the same routine to begin with.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Theoretically, you shouldn't "need" judges in sports like baseball or football
But they’re a very good idea to have, because people are imperfect and won’t always agree on what they saw, or adhere to the honor system. Sports like diving and figure skating depend on the judge’s decision, necessarily. Strictly speaking, it should be the ball actually going into the goal in soccer that creates the point scored. The ref confirms it. In figure skating, there is no scoring until the judge decides on a number. I think that’s a pretty big difference, and I prefer to call the former kind of competition a “sport” whereas I like to call the latter something else (I’m not sure what exactly).
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The numbers the judges decide on are actually measures of discrete elements
with explicit guidelines on how to score.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
Hm
They should just use lots of instant replay then and stop using multiple judges.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
ROBOTS SHOULD TAKE OVER THE WORLD OF SPORTS
and other athletic activities.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
They're taking over St Louis this week.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Nah, just humans using more and more complex and useful tools!
Kind of like with competitive bass fishing…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
that's low...
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
I couldn't help myself...
Sometimes I think I have a problem.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The internets make us all the lowest common denominator.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
The medium is the message!
Or something.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
ooh, let's have a McLuhan debate!
or not. Off to Target for me!
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
I barely remember anything of note about McLuhan
I took a couple weird courses in college.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
But in seriousness, this brings up another problem I have with those competitions
If there are explicit guidelines, why aren’t they performing the exact same routine? Otherwise you’re making an apples-t-oranges comparison, aren’t you?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I don't know! They're silly ninnypants for being figure skaters in the first place!
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
See, we can all come to common ground through rational and civil discourse!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Athletic competition?
But seriously, this is all incredibly arbitrary
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Of course it is
If it weren’t arbitrary there wouldn’t be much to discuss, we’d just Google it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
arbitrary, but fun anyway.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I take offense at your sig
Baseball is clearly a sport
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
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nuh uh
it has umpires and they judge subjectively
by YesWeOquendo on Apr 27, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
In all seriousness, this is the sort of thing I miss about college
We used to have all sorts of fun conversations that really didn’t matter very much.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Isn't any definition of a sport arbitrary?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I don't get why people are so offended when you say something isn't a sport.
Call it athletics, recreation, a hobby… whatever. Who the hell gives a shit as long as you enjoy it?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
I already made this point.
I’m just trying to tear down Rui’s faulty logic!
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
This too
It isn’t something to get worked up about. But I do think it’s fun to discuss and hear different people’s arguments for why they consider one thing a sport versus another thing.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
yup
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
Somewhat, yes
Because people are simply going to disagree on the foundational premises. And like I mentioned above, there are some weird things that go into like linguistics (is “sport” being treated as a word or a concept, etc) that muck it up too.
But, we can at least be consistent and reasoned in coming up with our own ideas about what makes a sport, so I don’t see it as totally arbitrary.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
oh, and baseball umpiring is what?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
by d-dee on Apr 27, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Completely irrelevant to this discussion
In baseball, who wins or loses is decided by who scores more runs, which is objective
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
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I have almost no clue how boxing is scored in non-KO cases
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
So it's not a sport under your classification, correct?
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
I have no idea, because I have no idea how it's scored
I would imagine that the origins of boxing are a sport under my definition, as they would beat each other until somebody’s down for the count; probably not the modern version
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
That's a good point
The way modern boxing is set up (you can win without actually knocking the other guy out or him giving up) I am now a little ambivalent about calling it a sport the way I tend to define the word.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
eh, i'm on your side but i dont buy this
Those objective runs are the outcome of sometimes subjective decisions (which could/should, though, be objective). All-around gymnastics, for instance, is decided by who objectively has the most points.
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
Need robot umps
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
not irrelevant at all.
Unless you let computers call balls and strikes, there’s a very definitive subjective element. Especially considering Maddux could get strikes called on balls that hit the backstop (slight exaggeration)
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
the strike zone is up to the umpire
safe out out calls on close plays are up to the umpire
close check swings calls are up to the umpire
close to the line foul calls are up to the umpire
however, there are guidelines for all that stuff the same as there are guidelines for scoring in gymnastics
so you really have no point
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
by d-dee on Apr 27, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the difference between objectivity and subjectivity isn't that complicated
an umpire can make mistakes just like a scientist can make mistakes. but they both are verifiable. gymnastics scores, on the other hand, are subjective despite any guidelines you might give them.
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
I would say I agree with you on this
But I will also admit I’m not exactly well-educated about the specifics of how gymnastics judges and other judges in similar events are supposed to do their scoring. So I’ll leave a little room for someone to try to convince me that it is as objective. I’m just skeptical.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
neither am i
but all i need to know is that two judges can come up with different scores and neither is wrong. that makes it subjective.
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
That's a good point, but it's not a matter of subjectivity,
but rather one of complexity and difficulty. Hence, averaging multiple scores would give a better overall result.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
what's not a matter of subjectivity?
we’re discussing if gymnastics is a sport, right?
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
It's all based on points for completion of elements
with points docked for a variety of different failures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Points_(artistic_gymnastics)
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
about two judges being different?
just like baseball.
I fail to see the distinction.
Yes, an umpire can be right or wrong.
So can a judge of gymnastics for each element scored.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
very nice!
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
an umpire can be right or wrong.
if one judge comes up with a different score than another judge, which is right?
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
a called stike outside the zone may theoretically be wrong
but try to convince the umpire that just called you out on strikes on a full count that you should be walking to first and not the dugout
→ also subjective
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
well, no, not subjective
the umpire is just wrong. the rules of baseball are enforced by humans and humans can be wrong.
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
Heh
I guess I missed this subthread. I’m not sure what is more funny to me, the competitive cheerleading or the movies based on it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
the thing itself.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
The former.
Because the latter wouldn’t exist without it.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
the law says no
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38347400/ns/us_news-life/
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
Huh
Even if I were asking that question seriously, I would not have expected that kind of answer. Or so quickly.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
to be fair,
that ruling just says collegiate cheerleading isn’t a sport by title IX standards due to lack of organization and competition. it probably would be considered a sport if it was structured differently.
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
I just didn't anticipate something like that being so cleverly brought up
Now this is going to spawn a sub-subthread about legalism and ethics or something.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
We covered Title IX last week.
You can get the notes from someone.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
It should be a sport for state athletic purposes
Those girls get shafted and some of them get really hurt all because it isn’t lumped in with the other “sports” and therefore isn’t bound by the same rules.
"Defense is important to this team," second baseman Skip Schumaker said.
To be fair
I’m not getting paid
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
that actually doesn't sound fair at all
but, hey, if you’re okay with it
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
Opportunity was too good to pass up
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Just wanna mention real quick that deep sea fishing is awesome
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
not for the fish!
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
next time they shouldn't go through life
being so damn delicious. I’m looking at you Halibut
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
by Evilfrog on Apr 27, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh sure, blame the victim
Just kidding, I totally agree. Fish are yummy.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I've been known to murder a few Swedish fish in my day.
The mighty skeet bird as well, but that’s a different story.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
I thought we covered this yesterday...
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
what? really? binaca?
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
by a fink on Apr 27, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have an idea about how to impove fu'tbol...
please feel free to ask me about it.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
you can't improve it! It's popular as is!
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
tempers are wearing thin. Let's hope some robot doesn't kill everybody.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Apr 27, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
where were you yesterday?!
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
putting my 2 cents into the soccer debate
I tried to ignore the “sports” discussion
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I totally agree....
but NASCAR fans may argue that too. Hunting and fishing aren’t sports either but hunters and fishers probably think they are.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
duh, they're called sportsmen
Skip Schumaker fields like a goat wearing capes
by mattyfrommo on Apr 27, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
by some people, I guess.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
"I don't know, is that a real sponsor?"
“wow, stretching?”
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 27, 2011 10:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i love that in this thread and yesterdays
we have been debating what’s a sport and whats not… i havent seen this yet wrasslins real
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
by punchinjudy on Apr 27, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh man
I can’t remember which game it was at (I’ve been to two this year, lucky me) but Mitchell Boggs’ walk-out music was “Real American” by Rick Derringer. It brought me to some pretty awesome Hulk Hogan flashbacks.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
You would, but only becasue they're not intelligent
The TV numbers for football are crazy.
Yeah, I think it's safe to say, at least by several objective measures
that you can at least make a damn good argument for the NFL to be the most popular professional sport. Football in general is insanely popular just judging by how often it’s played in school in this country.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
you're saying this as if 2006 was a bad year
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
Ummm...
Pretty sure baseball and maybe even soccer are more popular than NASCAR in America.
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
by stlcardsfan4 on Apr 27, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
(NASCAR's popularity is WAY down.)
(But still probably not.)
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Give the owners and players another month or two...
They’re addressing that.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Because they have Mel Kiper AND Yodd McShay damn it!
/sarcasm
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 27, 2011 10:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
*Todd
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 27, 2011 10:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I like Yodd.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
Yaime Yarcia
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I instinctively typed in Yotme instead of Yaime at first
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i wonder, how did franklin do in spring training, did they say?
didn’t any of the coaches notice any problems? maybe we could have prevented at least 2 of those blown saves if they’d pulled the trigger faster…
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
Spring training doesn't matter
to small of a sample size, many times pitchers are working on the pitches themselves instead of just getting the batter out. Look at Garcia.
They could have pulled the trigger faster. There is also an issue with managing the club house. In baseball, everyone is going to struggle at one point. You don’t want to have the whole club house thinking that any string of bad results will get them to lose their job.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
Dumb ? I've apparently forgotten
Whats the general conversion for WAR to actual Wins. Something like a 30 WAR team should win about 90 games? Does that sound right?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
About 46-47
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
So, losing, say 3 WAR from a team would be worth how many theoretical wins?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
3
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
How closely does Fangraphs WAR compare to reality?
They really should do an end of the year post on this…
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
I think it correlates fairly strongly
But you’ll have to ask VEP for specifics
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
But the 2004 Cardinals, with 46 WAR, won 105 games
How can WAR and wins be equal?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
...
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/fanblogs/114483159.html
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Much closer
For 2009, the correlation between a team’s projected record based on their WAR total and their actual record was .83.
My real question, better phrased: what is a team’s projected record based on WAR?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Don't multiply by .83
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I thought I was getting there.
Fuck it, I’m making shit up instead. FUCK YOU, ACCOUNTABILITY.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Apr 27, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's what Bill James and Tom Tango do too!
They just smoked a lot of weed one night and got to writin’ calcurations
Explains a lot about VEP, actually
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
by mysterui on Apr 27, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
heh
calcurations
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
by prophetjohn on Apr 27, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Calculations and equilibrium are two words I always say in Chinglish
Because I had an incredibly Asian Game Theory professor, and I cracked up literally every time he said those two words
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Did he ever say "parallel"?
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm... I don't think so, no
But there’s roughly a 30% chance I was asleep
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i have a ridiculously asian digital logic professor
she can actually say parallel
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
by prophetjohn on Apr 27, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
C'mon, why would you multiply by the correlation?!
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm trying to find anything to multiply by!
Actually, as stated early, I said fuck it and made shit up. I’m almost done with the article and I ain’t going back now!
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people!
How dare you misunderstand the math involved!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
It's honestly offensive to my very core
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
And to be fair, 46-47 wins are just an approximation of a team's "replacement level"
Based on how many wins they ended up having minus their WAR, so yeah
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
WAR is an approximation of value..
translated into wins – it’s just an approximation.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
If nobody can actually answer my question, just say so.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Oh, I definitely can't.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
let's just stop pretending WAR makes sense
Skip Schumaker fields like a goat wearing capes
by mattyfrommo on Apr 27, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
nice
so neither form of WAR makes sense
Skip Schumaker fields like a goat wearing capes
by mattyfrommo on Apr 27, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
absolutely nothing.
Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.
by Dave Pendleton on Apr 27, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
and really,
so are singles, doubles, etc. Just because they fit into nice little buckets doesn’t make them equal.
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
Wait
What? Could you elaborate on this point?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
just saying all singles arent created equal
an infield hit and a blast off the wall that bounces right to the left fielder who mows down the runner at 2nd shouldn’t really count the exact same. nor should a ground ball over the third base bag that goes for a double vs the same ball that 2005 scott rolen dives for and makes a web gem.
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
Ah I gotcha
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
MGL made a great comment about it on
The Book Blog. Really worth reading the whole thread. The key takeaway:
If you are measuring singles, doubles, triples, walks, etc., then offensive stats have virtually no measurement error. However, those neat little packages – the singles, doubles, etc., are not the greatest tools for estimating offensive true talent or how those neat little buckets will play out in the future (offensive projections). A seeing eye ground ball single and a screaming line drive out are "mis-measured" from the stand point of offensive true talent and projecting future offensive value. An easy example will suffice. We have one data point on player A. He hits a screaming line drive for an out. We have one data point on player B, and that is a bloop single to short RC field. Who is likely the better offensive player (by a tiny amount of course because of the sample size of data we have)? All of the offensive metrics that use those neat little buckets (wOBA, lwts, RC, BaseRuns, etc.), which most of them do, will get the answer dead wrong.
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
Hmmm
Tony has it right. It’s about taking good At Bats and making good pitches.
(why is Batista pitching with the bases loaded and why the love for Aaron Miles?)
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
more to the point
Individually that makes sense, but given a large enough sample size that argument breaks down. Guys who hit liners all the time are going to have better numbers than the guys who hit soft bloopers to right center. But in baseball, there isn’t a way to remove all the noise from luck. You can only quieten it down.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
If the assumptions of WAR are all correct and completely explain how baseball players perform, then WAR and wins should be equal
I believe
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
So nobody has ever done a historical average of "x number (WAR) = y number (wins)"?
I swear I’ve seen it before.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
The 2009 regression is run in mattyp's article above
But I don’t think a historical one’s been done. I haven’t seen one, in any case
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
If the answer isn't 1...
than obviously the WAR calculation has to be tweaked. Variation over 162 games is inevitable, so the numbers will never add up perfectly.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
War is set up so that is the case.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 2:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Because 47 (replacement level team)
+ 46 Wins above replacement =93. I guess luck/chance counts for the additional 12 wins
What was that teams pythag record?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update:
16.2 IP, 21 K, 9 BB/HBP, 4 ER, 2.27 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Apr 27, 2011 11:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
100-62
They were super lucky??
"Defense is important to this team," second baseman Skip Schumaker said.
Or WAR doesn't capture everything
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
you're making kind of an anecdotal observation
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/war-it-works/
you were asking for something along these lines
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/war-it-works/
the cards 2004 season would fit within the “2 standard devitations” category
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
by prophetjohn on Apr 27, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm basically going through the last decade and most of them are ~5 WAR off (via b-ref). May need to switch to fangraphs.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Because WAR tries to isolate individual value
It’s not meant to be added up to equal teams. There are many factors that effect team wins besides the sum if individual value – run distribution, hit distribution, etc. Im on my phone, but all4tookie should be able to explain it in more detail.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 2:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's been taken care of. My question can't be answered.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Take uppers before reading...
Goold lays out all the fail from last night.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
This is, perhaps, the most frustrating aspect of the season.
In five of their 11 losses the Cardinals had a lead in the ninth inning and bungled it.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
We SHOULD have 3-5 more wins, BUT we're still in a good position in the division,
and I think we have the best team of the three competitors. I’m honestly more optimistic now than I was at the beginning of the season, despite the frustrations.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
I completely agree.
But we’re missing out on opportunities to push well above .500.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I still feel OK about the team and all. But I also have this sinking feeling that I’ll look back near the end of the season and wish we had that 3-5 game cushion that we don’t have now.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
yeah, I hope it doesn't come to that.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
I would venture to say we're the best
.500ish team in baseball right now (except maybe Boston), so there’s that!
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
Didn't listen to the game last night
but did Shannon really go off on Tony? For an obscene bunt or somethin’?
Skip Schumaker fields like a goat wearing capes
It wasn't too bad.
But Mike seemed to be in a bad mood last night.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Agreed.
Punto squared to bunt and the third baseman moved way in. Shannon declared that this was unnecessary because Punto was bluffing. Shannon then expanded, that you don’t play for the tie on the road. Then, Punto bunted. Shannon then said, “Unbelievable. You don’t bunt for a tie on the road.” Then, the tie happened. Shannon then said that the Cardinals played for the tie on the road, got it, and are now hoping that the game can be untied.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I love Mike
even when he is grumpy
Skip Schumaker fields like a goat wearing capes
by mattyfrommo on Apr 27, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Shannon and Rooney.
I think they are a very good combination in the broadcasting booth.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Also,
do you watch the games on TV with the radio broadcast on?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Si.
My wife hates Al (and, by extension, Rick and Dan, too) as much as all of VEB combined.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Are the radio and TV delays the same?
Or, do you have one of those devices that allows for the broadcast delays to be synched?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I use MLB At-Bat on my iphone
which is a little behind my cable feed time wise. Pause the cable feed and sync it up.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
they are pretty close to being in sync.
I bought one of those radios and right after that the broadcasts changed so we didn’t need it anymore. I regularly turn down the tv and listen to the radio.
Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Mark Twain
What is Trevor Miller's role this year
used to be the guy who came in, got his one out and then left the game. I’m not a stats guy so I don’t know if the numbers back me up but it seems like he is now the guy you go to in critical situations to give up a walk.
by rdub on Apr 27, 2011 11:13 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Something of note from last night's game....
Hunter Pence is getting better in the field.
Last week, his fielding gave up four bases to Jason Bay.
This week, he only allowed three bases to Descalso.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
whose idea was it to put a catcher in RF?
Skip Schumaker fields like a goat wearing capes
by mattyfrommo on Apr 27, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Tyranosaurus Rex
I don’t know who it was, but someone on here referred to Hunter Pence being similar to a T-Rex because (IIRC) he has a batting stance that has his elbows held close to his body, making him short-arm his swing. Now every time I hear mention of him or see him, I can’t help but do awful T-Rex impersonations and mis-quote from “Meet The Robinsons” (“Why aren’t you seizing the ball? I have a big head and little arms!”).
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
He runs like a T-Rex.
With his elbows locked at his sides and his wrists and hands flailing about.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Hunter Pence is just an awkward dude all around, isn't he
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
That sounds silly.
Has he registered with the Ministry of silly runners?
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
Watch him throw.
It’s the same impression.
He’s not that bad of a player; he’s having a rough stretch in the field. But it was nice last week to see a 4 base error actually scored as such.
(Looking at you, Randy Winn and Colorado Rockies official scorer.)
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
I've always liked Pence and would have loved for him to come up through the Cards organization
but he is strange to watch.
Oh, that and I call him Underpants because that’s what his name sounds like.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
I agree with your first statement.
Your second, well…
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
My friends and I have always called him the velociraptor
Although given his size, Utahraptor would be more accurate. Doesn’t roll off the tongue the same way, though.
From what I am seeing on the Twitter, Charlie Sheen was in Houston last night
and wanted to meet Mike Shannon?
Shannon's got some of the old tiger blood
Shannon & Sheen – I would tune in to this sitcom
by peppermartin on Apr 27, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
horton didn't stop talking about this throughout the entire broadcast
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
Interesting.
I would assume it was talked about in the game thread.
I didn’t partake as I was busy getting thrashed in a men’s league softball game.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It's official: The 2011 Cardinal saves leader is not currently on our roster...
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
That's the new CW...
I think it’s wrong, but I could see TLR getting fed up and sending some prospects for a Heath Bell. I hope it doesn’t happen, but it might.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
I'd be content with a grade-B prospect or two for Bell.
Who knows how his market looks, but if I read Bell for Carpenter/Swagerty (or fill in the blanks – we’ve got tons of guys in that tier) I’d shrug and look forward to not sweating the 9th all summer, for once.
Does it also lead to Batista's release?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Boggs is not on the roster?
What?
If I had a nickel for every time I procrastinate, I'd be so rich that I probably wouldn't be procrastinating anymore.
by hr on Apr 27, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
means that
we are going to acquire a reliever to fill the role. hence the 2011 saves leader for the cardinals isnt currently on the roster
Oh yeah, I hit a lot of bombs. Don’t kid yourself.
I'll say it again: tied for best run differential in MLB.
Probably not going to finish with the best one, but I’m still taking the long view: the team’s been good this year. Better than our record. The team will continue to be good. We’re the team to beat in the Central.
Now, about Miguel Batista…
I wish I could feel this way
But I’m starting to take a more negative look. I feel like we’ve blown a chance to really capitalize on a hot start and put some distance between us and the other teams. I don’t see us as significantly better than the other NL Central contenders yet, so I am a little nervous that we still have such a mediocre record despite our run differential.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yep, that's awesome and all
But the same fucking shit as last year
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
by stlcardsfan4 on Apr 27, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Poor poor game
Poor, Poor game last night. Bad baserunning, horrible defense (throw the damn ball Colby, catch the ball David), Terrible use of the bullpen and then leaving infield in with one out in ninth. Hall hit into DP in previous AB. If Punto is back, its another double play.
Plenty of blame to go around!!!
Bad base running?
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
Didn't Hall get picked off? Didn't Bourn not advance on the WP?
wait, what?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
by TBender on Apr 27, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I remember two hussling doubles
only negative for the base running that I remember, is the Berkman caught stealing on a hit and run. While it goes down as a base running gaft, it’s more to the fault of freese striking out.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
Any 2B you like from this list?
Aaron Hill, maybe? Though I only have bad experiences with ones with that name
Second basemen
Clint Barmes (33)
Ronnie Belliard (37)
Willie Bloomquist (34) – mutual option
Robinson Cano (29) – $14MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Jamey Carroll (37)
Luis Castillo (36)
Alex Cora (36)
Craig Counsell (41)
Mark Ellis (35)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (36)
Bill Hall (32) – mutual option
Aaron Hill (30) – $8MM club option for 2012 and $8MM club option for ’13
Omar Infante (30)
Joe Inglett (34)
Kelly Johnson (30)
Adam Kennedy (36)
Felipe Lopez (32)
Jose Lopez (28)
Aaron Miles (35)
Augie Ojeda (37)
Brandon Phillips (31) – $12MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
And if you say Jose Lopez I will end you
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Jose Lopez!
Block, block, counter-punch, block, throat punch, leg sweep, uppercut, FATALITY.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But is that a sport?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
by mysterui on Apr 27, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
FINISH HIM
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
by TBender on Apr 27, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
At first I thought you were going with the Sherlock Holmes bit
First, distract target…
Then block his blind jab, counter with cross to left cheek. Discombobulate.
Dazed, will attempt wild haymaker. Employ elbow block, and body shot. Block feral left, weaken right jaw, now fracture.
Break cracked ribs, traumatize solar plexus, dislocate jaw entirely.
Heel kick to diaphragm…
n summary: ears ringing, jaw fractured, three ribs cracked, four broken, diaphragm haemmorraging. Physical recovery: six weeks. Full psychological recovery: six months. Capacity to spit at back of head: neutralized.
Didn’t really like that movie overly much . . .
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
Maybe b/c he wasn't a MMA fighter in the actual stories.
What a ridiculous adaptation.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Hey Snatch was pretty awesome
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt about it.
So was Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.
He should stick to originals and not adaptations/re-visionings.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully Descalso is a better hitter than he's shown through these first games, yeah
If Theriot has a good year, I’d like to bring him back to be 2B if he’s willing
Infante’s not a bad choice either
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Too bad there is a lefty on the mound tonight.
Otherwise he would probably be starting again.
I’ll think we’ll see Theriot back at SS if he can go and Punto at 2B. If Theriot’s ribs are still bothering him then Greene at SS and Punto at 2B or vice-versa.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd do the Theriot move as well.
and for the money, I’d probably prefer it to any of the options from up above.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Didn't see him; wouldn't be a bad choice
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i honestly didn't know how good he was.
a quick look at his fangraphs gives an emphatic yes. however, he’ll likely be more expensive than we’ll be willing to spend. especially post-albert.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 27, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Kelly Johnson is a bizarre player. He was godawful 2 years ago, and has started out this year rough.
And he’ll probably be expensive.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
and was freaking good last year. one of the best second basemen in baseball.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 27, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely. But if he'll expensive, I'd really want to figure out why he has been so inconsistent.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
Wasn't he amazingly streaky last year?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
he only hit .284 but had a .370 OBP to go with a .377 wOBA
and hit 26 home runs, far and away his career high. and was a plus defender.
i don’t remember anything about him being streaky, however.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 27, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
He hit 16 of the 26 HRs in April and September.
Not that it matters, I just thought it was weird he hit only 10 home runs in a four month span and still ended with 26.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
I REALLY don't think Johnson is a very good player,
I lived in Atlanta and saw him play quite a bit and never thought he was very good at all. Fans there hated him. He did have a great year last year and maybe he’s turned a corner, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him continue to struggle this year. Also, didn’t he get off to an insane start last year (through the first half or so) and then kind of level out the second half?
by mick311 on Apr 27, 2011 1:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Apr 7, 2010 to Apr 29, 2010
.353/.444/.868/1.312 w/ 9 HRs
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Sep 5, 2010 to Sep 28, 2010
.364/.410/.675/1.085 w/ 7 HRs
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Yay for arbitrary endpoints!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Apr 30, 2010 to Sep 4, 2010
.263/.351/.418/.769 w/ 10 HRs
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
fact: that's still better than schumaker.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 27, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
who is arguing that???
Johnson would most likely be an upgrade over Skip but I just don’t think it would be a good idea to give him the kind of contract he is going to demand.
by mick311 on Apr 27, 2011 2:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
he was almost the same hittter all the way through the season.
1st half: .276, .374, .497, .870
2nd half: .293, .365, .495, .860
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Two awesome months, three average months. Bookened!
Creamy middles!
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
It is what it is.
I mean I hear a lot about small sample sizes and regression to the mean and WAR and bacon and unicorns, but neither you nor I would have kicked .284, .370, .496, .865 out of bed for eating crackers unless it was requesting to make sweet, sweet love on the floor.
/creamy middles
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Yeah, I'm not trying to pass judgment. I just like playing with b-ref.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
imo, the worst type of player to commit to for multiple years.
his career gives me an all or nothing vibe.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
YES!
Adam Kennedy (36)
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
third place hitter in the mariners lineup!
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 27, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
is he really? damn the Mariner's offense is horrible
by mick311 on Apr 27, 2011 1:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
PITT THE ELDER
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Apr 27, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Cano, Phillips, and maybe Johnson
but they’re all over 30 (or will be) and cost a ton.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
ditto on hill and the jays i think.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 27, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Obligatory Aaron Hill(!!!!) for albrtfan
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Aaron Miles seems promising
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
WHO are you?!
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
by stlcardsfan4 on Apr 27, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
A former 1.9 WAR 2B can be had for league min? Sign me up!
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
concern over Yadi's D segue
I share it; Molina has not been his brilliant self. But for me it ranks below my concern about Theriot’s D. I remain convinced that the ingredient needed for this particular Cardinals group is for Greene to be the everyday SS.
So far that hope has taken an annoying cascade of blows. Danny D rapping three extra base hits last night being the latest one, together with LaRussa sending Albert to the plate in an obvious IBB situation (if he had selected Greene instead they may have pitched to him.)
I don’t feel that Greene is in the doghouse so much as the kennel has shown to have an array of tricky locks. And to his own discredit, Greenie hasn’t exactly overwhelmed in the few situations where he HAS been given a chance (even Punto looks better at the plate so far, which is a pretty low bar.)
I still have faith in Greene and a strong belief that him being at SS is the key to the division title, but it’s frustrating that all the vectors are working against him.
aaron - i want to congratulate you on your recent RFT articles.
the dan descalso article was excellent, even if it was deliberately set-up for the gag in the epilogue. i appreciate the alliteration.
i have had the same questions about yadi, though i am inclined to chalk it up to rust at this point.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
rb should be getting an email from DanIEL's grandma any time now
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
Why thank you, Tom.
And the only set up was done by Dirty Dan himself. I really did write that yesterday while waiting for the pregame show to start.
I feast on the bones of trolls.
by the red baron on Apr 27, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
when was the last day we didn't have rain in the metro?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
it rained in edwardsville
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
weird. it was beautiful at both Scott and in South City
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
It rained last night on the IL side.
If I had to guess I would say last Monday?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like Groundhog Day
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
so Berk's number will be retired in Houston after all?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
Strauss doing his usual...
rabmci6: Does the team still have a hitting coach? We haven’t heard from him in a very long time? What’s his advice for getting more results from the “clutch situation non-hitting Cardinals?” Too many runners left on base, don’t you think? Where’s Mark McGwire?
Joe Strauss: He’s still hitting coach for the team that leads the National League in OPS and batting average and ranks second in runs scored.
Zing!
ha. well played strauss
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
definitely.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
patience, grasshopper
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
Well, he does have a point
McGwire has been preaching taking bad pitches for balls, swing at pitches you can drive, and if you swing at one you can’t drive, follow through anyway.
Seems his message is getting around and is working.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
as far from an approach standpoint
I’m not going to get into a swing mechanic argument here.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
"too many runners left on base"
This is a dumb phrase. It’s as if he thinks stranding runners is always bad. Leaving 8 runners on base when you win 15-5 is not a problem, but leaving 6 runners on base when you lose 3-2 is.
A good stat would be “% of runners left on base”. On April 15 we stranded 38% of runners and April 17 we stranded 85%.
"Defense is important to this team," second baseman Skip Schumaker said.
So.
What’s the best webgem by a Cardinal so far this year? Theriot’s play in the 3B hole leaps to mind. Contenders?
Pujols has made a couple of nice spears, if I remember, as has Freese.
But yeah, Theriot’s was the most visually impressive that I recall.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
lineup. its....interesting.
Punto-4, Freese-5, Pujols-3, Holliday-7, Berkman-9, Molina-2, Greene-6, Jay-8, Lohse-1
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
...wat
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
good to see colby with a day off, he probably needs one
but is that punto hitting leadoff?
If I had a nickel for every time I procrastinate, I'd be so rich that I probably wouldn't be procrastinating anymore.
by hr on Apr 27, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh.
Most likely to work the count amongst the lead-off candidates.
Jay and Greene strike out way too much.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
APRIL FOOLS
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Any new news on Theriot?
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
Did they extrapolate beyond soreness? And how?
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
The soft whispers of unicorns...
Joe Strauss: All I know is what I read today, which didn’t include an explanation from the player. Intercostal injuries can persist. I wouldn’t necessarily dismiss it as minor.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
One more request
I need a uniocorn strauss memesplanation.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
When Strauss reports, the unicorn protects you from his conjecture.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Also Strauss once drank unicorn blood,
Keeping his career as a baseball writer incomprehensibly alive; but in an ironic twist, instead of him being cursed those who read him are.
by BTown Birds fan on Apr 27, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
for extra credit, who originated the meme
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I want a link!
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
I was hoping for a round of wild guessing, but I suppose there's a game-thread now.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
He has a weak arm for SS
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
freese in the 2 hole instead of Jay
so I assume we are playing a lefty?
Colby is the last Cardinal to get a rest if I’m not mistaken. This is his first day off correct?
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
Yes, Happ is starting.
And yes it is the first game this season that Colby has not started.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's time for Moz to flex his authority and dfa Batista asap
free compositionson guitar and keyboards through looping pedal (no overdubs)
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 27, 2011 4:02 PM EDT reply actions
Eckstein?
TLR loves David. Sign him as a flyer. He could add some spark & play second!
CliffNotes: "My Dad wanted me to be a baseball player!"
Roy Hobbs: "The Natural"
...Leaving breadcrumbs for RiverRat...
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, LOY nominee.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i'm going to assume this is a joke until told otherwise.
in that case i’m flagging it.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 27, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I always thought it was loser of the year
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i haven't watch it yet
I will tonight.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Apr 27, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And who exactly asked you?
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Current leader in the
clubhouse. He had 5 comments before coming out of the shadows.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I like how he rec'd stuff
for a few weeks before commenting. If only one of the admins could help us find someone who joined pre-2008 with like 10 comments and 5000 recs.
"Defense is important to this team," second baseman Skip Schumaker said.
but this guys has a UID in the 100's!
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 27, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That's just one qualifier.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
And who came up with the criteria?
You? Who conferred these powers upon one man?
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
I came up with the whole damn thing,
everyone just wants to jump on my coattails and tell me how to do my thing, now. And to them that will drag me down, I say, pissoff.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Apr 27, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is bullshit...
a committee should be formed and a mission statement prepared for submission to the executive. In the meantime, I’m prepared to serve as treasurer.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
You and your committee can go piss up a rope.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Apr 27, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, guys!
Lets let River Rat fuck this monkey, huh? He’s got it! Back off!
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Apr 27, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
such language. tsk-tsk.
I’m reading The Friends of Eddie Coyle right now. It’s got some fun phrases…
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
The revolt against a weak judiciary earlier this year
has created an anarchistic vacuum, allowing bold individuals to step in and make up rules as they go along.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
That, and the lack of publicly available documentation.
:)
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The LOY information is stashed safely next to the Penny Pitch f/x article.
According to sources with no direct knowledge of any situation.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Fritz was a piss poor judge,
he should stick to animations.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
And you should stick to eating my butt, good sir.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Apr 27, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
your gavel has been confiscated
all you have left is a fist.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
by IHeartBoog on Apr 27, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What is this, a VEB text-based role-playing game?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I put on a wizard robe
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
RR takes rui's wizard hat and throws it to Tbender.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Nobody knows the classic
bash.org convo?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
A troll appears!
>Use logic
The troll is unaffected.
>Use sarcasm
Thou hath defeated the troll!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
He recently donated a kidney to a relative.
Interesting, I did not know that.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
just saw a disturbing commercial with a dude
shaving a dudes back, and eating a bowl of cereal while at it…
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
well tell us what was disturbing about it already!
by mikey_mac on Apr 27, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
that was fink-rec'd with great speed.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
douche fail...
I actually would’ve liked to see him do something against Chapman…
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Rainsface.
BJRains On the show, @richardjustice mentions possibility of Berkman resigning with Cards next year and convincing Andy Pettitte to join him.
wut
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Richard Justice is the Joe Strauss of Houston.
Except he’s got some national cred, too.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
wat
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i hope not on Apet
and wheres the rains pic
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
...
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Apr 27, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
WHYYYYYYY?!?! WHY WHY WHYYY???
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
Can we start a committee or have a hearing or something to get that picture banned from VEB?
I vote d-dee to chair.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
clank sounds like a gavel. Made me chuckle.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
who made you judge? you're nothing but an opinion generator.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
Infallible opinions, mind you.
Notice how his name isn’t “dissentingopiniongenerator” so this means he’s always right.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
oh, he's no doubt infallible, but this does not bestow the power of judge upon him!
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
merely expressing an opinion
I have no judicial powers and now I’m going to dash away from the computer and have a good cry
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Apr 27, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
A goody cry always makes me feel better...
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
WHAT? i should get you banned too
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
do it! (I'm the pansy hiding behind your power in this story)
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
i should get me more of you
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
if you think so, then I'm sure it's a great idea!
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
This scenario would only take place if Pujols is not a Cardinal next year, I would think.
Unless Berkman puts up crazy numbers and loves STL so much that he’ll take another 1 year contract or 2 years/$18 mil or something, I’d much rather have Craig on the cheap.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 27, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
with craig on the roster
I’d rather go with him next year. Berkman is doing great this year. But I’m not sure we can afford him next year.
"Why are you here? You should be mowing Albert Pujols' lawn right now." - Conan O'Brien to TLR, after noting he was in the audience for Bob Costas' benefit show.
It would take Berk both playing terrific and being willing to sign below what the market will be.
I’d say these things happening in tandem is certainly possible, but not at all probable.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
bah. i've been wondering who i should root for to lose this game.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
The Reds.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.
If you're interested, Nick Additon is in the middle of something interesting in the seventh inning
in Springfield.
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
it's not a sandwich of any kind...
i’m not gonna say it, look for yourself
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
way to go.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Should have had a tuna melt.
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
for those interested in Trevor Rosenthal
he was the hard-luck loser today after putting up 8 Ks to 1 BB in 6 IP with 5 hits and 3 runs all earned.
I'm sorry I impugned your cocksmanship.
Still no news on what happened with Shelby?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
He was hit by a line drive, no?
"Miller came in from the bullpen with a gan of casoline." - Mike Shannon
Yeah, but that's all I've heard
Where? How severe?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
dick. bad.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 27, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Was just about to post this
I’ll update my sigature later
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update:
16.2 IP, 21 K, 9 BB/HBP, 4 ER, 2.27 FIP
by VolsnCards5 on Apr 27, 2011 6:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So Ryan Jackson is the shortstop of the future
refute me at your peril
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Apr 27, 2011 7:33 PM EDT reply actions
Kozma
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Apr 27, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
not really refuting you
but i don’t think many people realize this
BAIP: .436
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
Dude, we've got some good vibes going
Don’t ruin it with your “reason” and “facts”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
then to contribute to the good vibes
adjusting for normal batted ball luck, he should still have a .370 wOBA
he also has a 12% BB rate
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
For the record I figured his BABIP must be ridonkulously high and I didn't think he was gonna be Rogers Hornsby or something
It’s just to cool to see him have any offensive success after hearing over and over again that he’d be an all-glove, no-hit shortstop.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
he's got to be hitting the ball well to be getting that lucky anyway
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
well I thought he was going to be Rogers Hornsby
minus the racism. Oh well.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Apr 27, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn, man.. I don't know any easy way to say this, so I'll just go ahead and break it to you
Not only is he not gonna be Hornsby… but Jackson is racist as all get out. Seriously, some dude told me and he knows a guy.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Did he lack firsthand knowledge of the situation?
Because that’s the only way I’m going to buy this.
I feast on the bones of trolls.
by the red baron on Apr 27, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
He totally lacked first hand knowledge!
The original source was the ghost of Enos Slaughter.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Apr 28, 2011 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Then I shall accept it as fact.
Ryan Jackson is officially dead to me due to his extreme racism and the fact he once shot a three-legged puppy with an elephant gun. (I have my own sources.)
I feast on the bones of trolls.
by the red baron on Apr 28, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
numbers sclumbers
the recent article about him convinced me that the guy reeks of Cardinals
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Apr 27, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
oops
i forgot to turn on my proxy before i loaded the game and i didn’t get my blackout warning
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
what does that mean? its not blacked out?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
apparently
it did the little location check and showed the dot in texas where i am, then said you’re good to go and started the game
Tried it once and they liked it, then tried to hide it
twatter
i feel like i spend all day just counting down the minutes until the game starts
and i inevitably end up wondering, what the hell did i do during the offseason?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
did anybody else lose the fsnmw tv feed?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
ST LIVE STREAM boys and girls
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 24
the picture of prince fielder on the front page of mlb.com is ridiculous.
and not in the good way.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
its under the "watch mlb.tv on your favorite devices"
he looks about 500 lbs
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
i think its this picture

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
This is a medical emergency!
A man’s neck has just disappeared for goodness sake
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
What a man.
7-2-5! Craig to Yadi to Descalso!
I am out of the closet as a member of the St. Louis Riot, 2011.

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