Amping Up the Lineup's Power Core
The 2010 Cardinals were a frustrating club to watch on a day-to-day basis, especially with David Freese, Ryan Ludwick, and Colby Rasmus missing large chunks of time due to injury and the eventual trade of Ludwick for pitching and the acquisition of Pedro Feliz to fill-in full-time at the hot corner for Freese after his second injury during a minor-league rehab stint. The lineup was quite polarized, with excellent power hitters making up its heart and a collection of singles hitters who were not going to notch many extra-base hits even on a good day.
Last season, the heart of the St. Louis batting order was comprised of three sluggers so prolific that they each placed in the top 16 of the National League in slugging percentage. Albert Pujols placed third in the NL with a .596 SLG, just four points behind first-place Joey Votto's .600 SLG. Matt Holliday slugged .532, which placed him sixth overall in league. Slugging .498 was the Cardinals super sophomore, Colby Rasmus, who led all NL center fielders and finished a mere three points behind the Brewers' Ryan Braun and just seven points behind the 6'4", 300-pound Philadelphia first baseman, Ryan Howard. The NL average for SLG in 2010 was .397* and no other Cardinal that qualified for the batting crown posted a SLG over that pedestrian watermark. Had the Cardinals not suffered the injuries or made a trade spurred by injuries in the rotation, their lineup would have been a bit more imposing in the extra-base hit sense of the adjective.
*And you, dear readers, say, "Ah, but bgh, 2010 was 'The Year of the Pitcher.'" To which I say, "No, 1968 was the 'The Year of the Pitcher.' Despite the label given 2010, it is a good point. In 2009, the NL average SLG was .409; in 2008, it was .413; and, in 2007, it was .423. As one can see, over the last handful of seasons, it has gotten easier for a Cardinal to have a league-average SLG or better. Nonetheless, only three managed it in 2010.
Ryan Ludwick was both injured for a chunk of and traded away during the 2010 season. As skilled with his mitt in the field as he was powerful with the bat, Ludwick was an asset to the Cardinals. If Ludwick would have made more plate appearances for the Cardinals--due to lack of injury or a lack of trade--the right fielder likely would have posted an above-average SLG for the Cardinals. After all, Ludwick's .484 SLG with an "STL" on his helmet during the 2010 season would have placed 22nd in the NL. That being said, the reality is that, for 2010 as a whole, Ludwick managed only a .410 SLG due to a poor performance after joining the Padres. Even so, his 2010 overall SLG total is still above-average, albeit far lower than his SLG totals during his seasons as a Cardinal: .479, .591, .447, and .484. After both Ludwick's trip to the DL and his trip to San Diego, Jon Jay filled in fairly well for Ludwick, but Jay's offensive production is more of the contact variety than power. Jay slugged .422, which gave right field a collective .450 SLG for the 2010 season.
Other than the departed Ludwick, losing rookie third baseman David Freese also sapped the lineup of some power, even though Freese's first weeks as a major-league regular were defined more by contact than pop, with Freese mustering only a .404 SLG to go with his .296 BA. (On the Memphis farmstead, Freese cultivated a SLG of .550 in 2009 and .525 in 2009.) Freese's replacements at the hot corner were just that, replacement-level, and not the kind of replacement level that has much power. Felipe Lopez slugged .340 and he led the non-Freese third basemen with that lowly number. Daniel Descalso slugged .324; Aaron Miles, .317; Joe Mather, .283; and, Pedro Feliz, .250. It is little wonder then that the Cardinal third basemen collectively slugged .338 in 2010.
With the position's cumulative .352 SLG in 2010, catcher was not much better. Lighning-in-a-bottle call-ups like Steven Hill (1.333) and Matt Pagnozzi (.487) buoyed Yadier Molina (.342), Jason LaRue (.321), and Bryan Anderson (.344). The keystone SLG was .348, with Skip Schumaker contributing a .338 SLG to the effort. The (lack of) power at shortstop harked back to the years of astroturf and Whiteyball with a .311 SLG produced from that position.*
*This is not entirely fair to Ozzie Smith. While he did manage only a .312 SLG in 1982, he then slugged at a level comfortably above the Cardinals' 2010 shortstop level until 1990, when The Wizard slugged .305. To put it another way, despite wizardly fielding, the shortstop position in 2010 had even less pop than it had during the Whiteyball era.
Just how powerful was the order's core? Despite the complete lack of power from catcher, third base, shortstop, and second base (which makes up half of the non-pitcher lineup), the Cardinals finished with an above-average.402 SLG for the season. Pujols, Holliday, and Rasmus combined to account for 93 of the club's 150 HR, or, a 62% share. (If we throw Ludwick in, it's 104 total HR, or, 69.33%.) They also account for 112 of the Cardinals' 285 doubles (39.29%) and 5 of the 18 St. Louis triples (27.77%). Pujols, Holliday, and Rasmus clubbed 221 of the Cardinals' 453 XBH, which is a 48.78% share. Three hitters nearly equalled the XBH total of every other Cardinal to take a PA combined.
While SLG is an adequate stat for measuring a player's power-hitting, we can also look at Isolated Power (ISO), which Lewis Pollis describes in his neat post over at Wahoo Blues titled, "Power Factor: A Better Way to Measure Power,"* as being,
...simply the difference between a player’s slugging percentage and his batting average—or, in other words, his extra-bases-per-at-bat. By subtracting BA from SLG, we reduce the impact of a player’s contact ability so we can get a better idea of his raw power.
*This is a very good piece. Even though I did not use Power Factor (PF), which is the focus of the Pollis post, it is an interesting idea and definitely worth exploring by reading the post.
Looking at extra-bases-per-at-bat via ISO confirms--perhaps even more dramatically that merely looking at SLG--that the trio of Pujols, Holliday, and Rasmus provided the thump for the 2010 Cards:
|
PLAYER |
ISO |
|
Albert Pujols |
.284 |
|
Colby Rasmus |
.222 |
|
Matt Holliday |
.220 |
|
Ryan Ludwick |
.203 |
|
.167 |
|
|
Jon Jay |
.122 |
|
Felipe Lopez |
.109 |
|
David Freese |
.108 |
|
.106 |
|
|
.083 |
|
|
Yadier Molina |
.080 |
|
Skip Schumaker |
.074 |
|
.071 |
|
|
Daniel Descalso |
.059 |
|
Pedro Feliz |
.042 |
|
Aaron Miles |
.036 |
Some of the names found on this chart are thankfully not in the 2010 mix for the Cardinals, some regretably. The replacements are Nick Punto (in the long-term, anyway), Ryan Theriot, Gerald Laird, and Lance Berkman. Here are their 2010 SLG and ISO numbers:
|
PLAYER |
2010 SLG |
2010 ISO |
|
Lance Berkman |
.413 |
.166 |
|
Ryan Theriot |
.312 |
.043 |
|
Nick Punto |
.302 |
.063 |
|
Gerald Laird |
.304 |
.096 |
Based on 2010, there is not much to be optimistic about in regards to generating more pop from the lineup. The players' career numbers offer more hope (for what it's worth), even if it is mitigated somewhat by their respective ages.
|
PLAYER |
CAREER SLG |
CAREER ISO |
|
Lance Berkman |
.545 |
.250 |
|
Ryan Theriot |
.356 |
.072 |
|
Nick Punto |
.322 |
.075 |
|
Gerald Laird |
.358 |
.116 |
Berkman really is the greatest potential offensive upgrade. Not only does he have tremendous plate discipline, but he is a true power hitter. After his 1999 MLB debut consisting of 106 PA over 34 games, from 2000 to 2009, Berkman did not slug at a rate lower than his .509 in 2009 and he also did not post an ISO below .227.The Cards have gambled $8.5 million that Berkman will be the XBH machine he was for Houston. If Berkman experiences such a renaissance and Freese comes off of ankle surgeries hitting more like the BBQ-fueled Memphis Redbird, the Cardinals lineup will be much more potent and much more balanced. Another ripple effect of the Wainwright injury is the Cardinals being put in a position where they will have to be more reliant on scoring runs and their ability to hit for power will help that cause. Berkman and Freese staying healthy and hitting for power would go a long way toward shifting the Cardinals from an average offensive club with three excellent power hitters to a well-rounded attack readily capable of putting a crooked number on the scoreboard in two innings out of every three they play.
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Comments
Great Read BGH
This helps explain last year’s painful offensive display. We were an offensive version of Spahn and Sain and pray for rain. So many times we scored in the first, and then went blanked thereafter. Or, late in the game, we knew we could only catch up if the heart of the order did it. Hard to do much damage with six mosquitos in the lineup. Also explains how weak we have been when teams decide to pitch around Albert (or Holliday) when the game is on the line.
SD
Is it just me or does 'amping up the power core'
sound like something a bond villain might say?
“Ve vill AMP UP ze power core and deztroy ZE VORLD”
“Thasht what you think Drake! I think you’ll find that you’ll meet a… SHOCKING end!”
[Bond electrocutes Drake]
But anyway, good write up. If we can turn our big three into a big five / big four and a half then we will be in a much better position.
you're
by Aranathor on Mar 28, 2011 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
The Cardinals need to amp it up to eleven.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Mar 28, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Poor, poor cow.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Ths team stands to benefit quite a bit from addition by regression.
Craig, Freese, and McCarp all project to bring the heart of the ISO chart up. Yadi, Greene, and even Schumaker are projected to regress to higher ISO scores.
http://fuckyeahnouns.com/alex%20fritz
Then again Jaime, Carp and Rasmus, and the bullpen should be due for regression the other way
Although Jaime and Rasmus should improve as well.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
when did the mothership layout change?
can’t really say i care for it much
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....
I think mlb.com as a whole changed its layout
not very dramatically, but it’s very noticable
If I had a nickel for every time I procrastinate, I'd be so rich that I probably wouldn't be procrastinating anymore.
yes, mlb.com dictates the layout for all club sites
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....
I don't that I like the way the layout has been executed from a visual standpoint,
but I love the “Cardinals postgame” at the top.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think so too.
The new look is a nice refresh. And the tabs seem to respond quicker too.
Boog woulda.
by The Continental on Mar 28, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
looking at the rounded corners i'd say it's css3 based
that’s why it responds faster
but the design below the navigation is a bit like a child made it
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....
probably designed for the Morans
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I think once I get used to it I'll like it.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
by ClemsonGirl on Mar 28, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I think this team reminds me of '04 a little
And last years happened to remind me of ‘03. As far as I see it, if Skip regresses we have ’04 minus a very good hitting SS which should me 90 wins. I’m excited (not about Theriot or Bautista but about the team as a whole, and you know, baseball!!!!!!!)
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Mar 28, 2011 10:03 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Didn't 2003 have an awesome offense though?
I don’t remember. I didn’t follow very closely before 2004. That was my “internet-fueled baseball renaissance” team.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Guess who this is:
.382 wOBA and 6.6 Fangraphs WAR.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The guy that got us Adam Wainwright?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Edgar Renteria!
Sure, he had a .343 BABIP, but I had no idea what that was in 2003. When I wrote that post on the MIF earlier this year, I had Renteria chosen as my foil for the subsequent Cardinal shortstops. I was even going to call it, “Searching for Renteria.” And, yeah, he had a .312 wOBA in 2004 and put up a 1.9 Fangraphs WAR, but my Renteria-focused intro just wound up being this multi-paragraph ode to Renteria, so I edited the whole thing out because my posts are already way too long.
Check out the 2003 offense:
Pujols: .462 wOBA
Edmonds: .415 wOBA
Rolen: .390 wOBA
Renteria: .382 wOBA
Drew: .381 wOBA
It’s a veritable MV5, worth 32.3 WAR. Drew only posted 2.8 WAR because he only played in 100 games. Eduardo Perez posted a .366 wOBA in 105 games.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
How did we not win a title that year?
Oh, right, this
Brett Tomko threw 200 innings? That’s almost as surprising as Edgar Renteria being with 6.6 WAR!
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
What's astounding to me,
is the production on offense coupled with great defense at SS, CF, and 3B. I mean, wow. Too bad the pitching was terrible.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
god that season was painful to watch, even as a naive 13 year old.
i’m not sure i could take that again as an informed 21 year old.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 28, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
It was an exciting year to go to the ballpark though
At least 3 games of every series resulted in a lead that wasn’t ever safe….
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Maalox probably made out like a bandit that year.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Brett Tomko
Duncan reclamation FAIL
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Mar 28, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
nobody's perfect
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
132 wRC+...
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
by prophetjohn on Mar 28, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
oddly enough, .312 wOBA and 1.9 WAR from a SS sounds pretty okay to me now.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Hmm, if only there was a player who we traded away who projected to put up that exact line
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you talking about Brendan Ryan?
Who is projecting him to even top a .300 wOBA? The highest I can find is the Fangraphs Fans projection, and that’s .292 (and they project him to have ~10 UZR and 1.5 WAR, so it’s close enough. But still. Sometimes I forget just how bad a hitter he has been most of his career)
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Well I guess he's not that good of a hitter
But his defense with .290 wOBA hitter would make him about a 2 WAR player.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
1.9 WAR from our middle infield
might be considered average this year.
I will now go throw up.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Yes but I meant the progressively worsening the roster with Yan/Feliz type players
And the great division race where we came out ahead after an awesome series vs the team we battled for the division (Kerry Robinson anyone?) before folding under out poor roster management down the stretch.
Anyway, as long as we don’t decide to trade Shelby Miller for C C Sabathia next offseason just to hear “progressing nicely” for four years because of it I’m excited about our chances this year.
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Mar 28, 2011 12:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Three Night in August acclimated me to 2003
Yeah, the offense was pretty good. Edgar had 100 RBI’s in the 7th spot in the lineup.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not too bullish on Berkman for a couple of reasons:
- According to this spray chart (and these: 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006 — sorry, couldn’t put them all in one graphic) unless we bring the LF fence in about 30 feet and put a train on it, he’s not likely to hit dingers in our ballpark as he did in Houston. Since 2006, more and more of his home runs are going to left of center or to straight away left field….
- ….and this is coming at the same time as his diminished ability to hit LHP from the right side (Splits: 2010, Career. So it’s not like he’s had a Chipper Jones-type change in which he’s now got more power from the right side, he’s hitting the majority of those home runs the opposite way and that’s just not going to play well at Busch III, which is one of the best parks in the league at suppressing homers to left field. I think only PetCo is better at that in the NL, as Ryan Ludwick found out last year after the trade.
I’ve said for a long time that the one guy who took advantage of the Juicebox more than anyone else was Berkman — he would sit on a fastball away, and then flip it over the left field fence for a home run. He’s just not going to be able to do that at Busch, and I think it’s going to drastically effect his power numbers.
Could he still slug .500? Sure, but I think he’s going to have to hit 50+ doubles to do so, which would be an unprecedented amount.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Especially since it hasn't been proven that he can actually run to second base still.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Mar 28, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would add to this age and injury concerns.
I’m not sold on Berkman, but I think he could still be an elite offensive player. While he unquestionably benefited from the Juicebox, I think he is a smart player and a skilled one, capable of making adjustments. He might not any longer be able to flip outside fastballs onto the left-field porch, but I think he is skilled enough to make adjustments. We should not expect him to slug .545 and probably not even .500. But I believe the high .400s is a distinct possibility. If Berkman slugs in the high .400s and gets on at .400ish clip, that’s a very nice offensive player to have, especially hitting second.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
As nice as that all looks
If Berkman slugs in the high .400s and gets on at .400ish clip, that’s a very nice offensive player to have, especially hitting second.
First, he has to hit second, and to do that Tony has to show a willingness to put him there. TLR has not indicated that he is thinking that way. Unless you’ve read something that I haven’t seen yet, which is entirely possible.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I have read nothing but the opposite in terms of the manager's mindset as to Berkman.
I would rather have Berkman setting the table for Pujols, Holliday, and Rasmus, than bussing it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Well said.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Whether Berkman hits 5th or 2nd just doesn't matter.
Batting order is fun to talk about but it just doesn’t matter very much at all.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Mar 28, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the line I'm expecting:
.270/.375/.450 with 15-20 homers and 25-30 doubles in around 500 PA’s. Anything more than that is just gravy.
Incidentally, that’s about where Marcel has him I think.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
A miracle?
That’s about 130-135 games. He played in 122 games last year and had 481 PA’s. FFS, why did we sign him if we thought him getting 500 PA’s would be a miracle?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Because he's good for the clubhouse?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
more than 300 PAs w/ those slash lines would be great.
Anything more than that is house money, in my opinion.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
absolutely.
a .375 OBP hitting second over 500 PA’s? yes please.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 28, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
this is an important point
For all we know, Berkman altered his approach to take advantage of the Juicebox. No reason he couldn’t adjust for a different home field. Clobby has no problem yanking them out to RF. Perhaps Berkman could do the same.
In any case, an OPS over 800 would fit our needs quite well, which is attainable without the opposite-field dingers.
Pretty sure
that Berkman has talked about doing just that.
I really wish he’d just give up on hitting right handed entirely and swing lefty all year no matter what.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
All this means is that
we have proof that he can flip the ball over a 310 foot fence. We have no proof that he’s an above average pull hitter.
Sure, he could have changed his approach, but if that’s the case, then why is it that he hit homers to all fields for most of his career but has been almost exclusively a opposite field HR hitter the last couple of seasons? Honestly, a really good explanation for this would be that his bat has started to slow down a bit, and you don’t have to have as quick a bat to get to the outside pitch as you do the inside one.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Because the last couple of seasons
he’s had physical issues that prevented him from being to swing normally? I think that’s the logic most people are using to think he has the ability to bounce back.
The jury is still out of course on whether or not losing 20-30 pounds (depends on who you ask) and being further out from knee surgery has allowed him use again of some of his former physical skill.
His bat speed could just be gone, as you’re thinking, in which case the Cardinals just wasted $8.5M.
I’m not sure which it is.
Just by eye test over a small sample size I don’t think he looks much different as a hitter than he did before he messed up his left knee. How much he’ll regain? Who knows.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
the reporters that have seen him most
seem to agree with you evaluation. i think berkman himself has said as much also
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
I don't expect Berkman to say anything else.
If I were trying to rebuild my career I’d be saying I felt great too.
Berkman actually seems like the rare ballplayer who actually has a grasp on his place in the game and how production affects it though based on some of his previous comments.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Berkman
I agree that Berkman was sitting on fastballs away and hitting them onto the short porch but I think that was an adjustment he made to the ballpark he was in. If I had Berkman’s ability I’d do the same thing. Why pass up a cheap home run?
I don’t expect him to hit 40 HRs at Busch III but 20-25 HRs and 30-35 doubles is doable I think if he stays healthy. As long as he gets on base at about a .380 clip and slugs .450ish then it’s all good.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree completely:
Why pass up a cheap home run?
However, the ability for him to do this is akin to playing in that particular ballpark 81 games a year. Hence my argument for bringing the left field fence in and putting a train on it!
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Do you really want to copy Houston?
That just gives me the willies.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Um, no
It’s bad enough we have to play there during the year. Just making a joke about their joke of a stadium.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Pssst. I knew it was a joke.
And that their stadium is one. Hell, my nephew is an Astros fan and even he makes fun of it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
My buddies and I used to call it a popsicle stand
but we decided that it was too far south to be named after a meltable frozen treat.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
An interesting split for Berkman...
Career Home: 3,414 PA / 194 2B / 154 HR / .302 BA / .415 OBP / .549 SLG / .964 OPS
Career Away: 3,421 PA / 188 2B / 173 HR / .289 BA / .402 OBP / .542 SLG / .944 OPS
His splits suggest that he was a good enough hitter to take advantage of the dimensions at whatever park he hit in. Whether he still can is another question.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Mar 28, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Career wise, yes...
Now, let’s look at his last two seasons:
2010:
- Home: .286/.377/.491 ISO: .205
- Away: .201/.358/.321 ISO: .120 ICK!!!!
2009:
- Home: .289/.417/.540 ISO: .254
- Away: .262/.379/.477 ISO: .215
In 2010 in particular, he’s struggled on the road, but even his 2009 road split, while good, is a far cry from his career numbers. The only thing that saved his ass in 2010 was a 19.7% walk rate on the road — without that he’s Skip Schumaker.
Clearly, he’s in decline, I just hope that his walk rate can stay around the 15% career mark that he has, which will make him a valuable player in the 2nd spot of the lineup. That’s why I really don’t want to see him hitting 5th or 6th, as you said above. With his diminishing power skills, I think he’s best suited to just work walks ahead of Pujols and Holliday and try to score 100 runs rather than trying to drive 100 in.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think he's in decline, but I don't know that it's 100% clear. Lingering injuries can get better.
If it's a meme, or looks like it might be a meme, I do not get it.
I think that his ability to get on base
will make him a much more valuable player than anyone we played in RF either of the past two seasons. His ability to stay healthy, though, is a huge question mark.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Which is why its fortunate that we have a pair of players who ought to be able to
cover our backs in RF should he go down for any great length of time.
you're
+1
Makes you wonder though — would we have been better off spending that $8.5M by adding a middle infielder or starting pitcher and praying that a Jay/Craig platoon could work?
Not sure I have an answer to that one at the time of the Berkman signing. I definitely have an answer now, though.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
at the time of the signing, it seemed like a pretty good deal
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
by prophetjohn on Mar 28, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I was really excited
Mostly because it’s always fun to get a “big name” on your team. I’ve had to sober my expectations quite a bit. But I really like Berkman’s personality and I think it’s reasonable to expect him to be productive. It’s just not exactly a guarantee.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Definately, at the time.
As much as i hate to bring it up; but when we picked up Berkman, we still had Waino and the idea of needing to sign another SP was pretty preposterous.
you're
I don't know if I'd call it a hue and cry
but I think there were some folks here questioning the need to sign an OFer when they needed help so badly at MI.
Boog woulda.
by The Continental on Mar 28, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I've thought this all along
I like the Berkman signing and I don’t think $8.5M is all that much for him. However I think it would have better to give Craig the at bats and spend the money elsewhere (Dan Uggla anyone?).
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I really hope Mo at least tried to get Uggla
and if not I hope I never figure that out…. for his sake
by RasmustheRipper on Mar 28, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I really don't know that he did.
I really have the feeling that Schumaker was the second baseman this year whether or not someone else better was available or not.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember them talking about upgrading the MI
and they were focusing on SS, but not conclusively………
and then just nothing happened, what was the end result, I just don’t have the foggiest.
by RasmustheRipper on Mar 28, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
They were just using that as a smoke-screen
in the reasoning of moving Boog. Then that really didn’t work out so well.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, MI did need to be improved
and as much as I was hopeful it involved fixing 2b (and there were more potential options), I realize that I was being a tad naive.
by RasmustheRipper on Mar 28, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
True,
But from what I’ve seen out of Theriot so far, I’d have more confidence in Boog and the refrigerator-sized hole in his swing. But then, I do just love some good defense. Silly me.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree
The Theriot choice just seems like a foolish gamble. I appreciate defense as well, but even with out claiming you might be overvaluing Boog there is a decent chance that Boog might be more valuable
by RasmustheRipper on Mar 28, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Willie McGee's Twin
A little while back, he made a very good point. We have now based our middle infielders’ value on luck, county on Skip and Theriot to hit better in 2011, which is essentially their lone source of value. At least with Ryan, you had a built-in value source in his defense. 1.0-WAR seems to be his floor, given his value in 2010 despite being one of the league’s worst bats.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Could not have said it better myself
(bgh’s comment) and Ryan can get lucky too
by RasmustheRipper on Mar 28, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Not trying to argue
I just have a hard time with the over-valuing idea. How do you over-value +20 runs on D? I would take that any day. Especially, when you have a guy at second that moves like he’s got an anchor tied to his ass. But then, you throw the whole “personality clashes” in to it and that just negates everything. Silly people and their personality dependence.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Uggla was a trade, not a FA.
We would not have had the money to sign him long-term, nor woud I have wanted the Cards to give him the money that the Braves did.
But even if you’re talking about trading for him just as a one-year rental, based on what Florida got back from Atlanta in that deal, we did not have remotely similar assets to make that trade.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Mar 28, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we looked at that
and there just wasn’t much out there that could have been added regarding Free Agent middle infielders.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
This is what MLBTR said about FA 2nd basemen at the start October
Basically the only guys who could be described as competent 2nd basemen (and on the open market) were; Orlando Hudson and Juan Uribe. Not exactly worth splashing the cash.
you're
Exactly, and
looking at the MIF crop of free agents next year is a bit more promising.
Jack Wilson, Jose Reyes, J.J. Hardy, Rafael Furcal, Kelly Johonson, Freddy Sanchez.
All these guys could represent a pretty fair upgrade for either SS or 2b either with the glove, the stick, or both.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Next years FA crop
Kelly Johnson is the only person on that list I’d look at as it stands right now.
Everyone else is on the decline or hurt/ineffective/done.
Reyes might be the exception but if he has a huge season then he’ll sign for way more than he’s worth for way too long.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I might be willing to give Hardy a shot
cheap contract though
by RasmustheRipper on Mar 28, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I would take Hardy over either of our starting middle infielders.
by RasmustheRipper on Mar 28, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Oliver Hardy?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Well you have to remember
what we would be replacing. A slightly less offensive pile of shit is still better than what we have right now.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
If they are willing to take Wilson
than you have to wonder why they didn’t just swap SS with the Mariners instead of getting Theriot
by RasmustheRipper on Mar 28, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Addendum:
The above analysis is in no way predicting Lance Berkman’s performance at Busch stadium or on the road in 2011. It is simply an inference based on a medium size sample of at-bats over the last two seasons that seem to indicate that his power ability outside of Minute Maid park has diminished considerably.
It’s really sad that I feel compelled to put this in there to keep the quants from picking apart this analysis piece by piece based on sample size and r-value.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Don't worry, you're safe with me!
I have no idea what an r-value is, know next to nothing about statistical prediction, had to look up the word “quant,” and am only moderately able to feed myself.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Mar 28, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
So in otherwords it's a disclaimer
That says that the numbers your using to prove your point don’t actually stand the scrutiny of proper numerical tests.
But those tests are done for a reason, and that’s because numbers are highly variable and they can’t be taken at face value as you are doing so above.
seem to indicate that his power ability outside of Minute Maid park has diminished considerably.
To what degree? And how strong of an indication? Without explicating those further, your argument doesn’t carry much weight.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
As I said in the other post: I really don't give a crap what you think anymore -- there isn't a post on this website that you haven't nitpicked to death
Without explicating those further, your argument doesn’t carry much weight.
I would add: To you. Most other people thought this was interesting and thought provoking and worth looking at. I don’t write comments for you. I write comments looking at things I find interesting.
So — prove me wrong, don’t attack my method. You’re always attacking methods instead of providing your own analysis. It’s annoying.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I provided my own analysis
I said I don’t think Berkman was benefitting much from Juicebox, I posted splits below (and bgh posted them above).
And I disagree that Berkman is declining precipitously in that department. My argument on that is a passive one – that he will follow the normal aging curve – you are the one making the argument his decline is steep.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
No I'm not
you are the one making the argument his decline is steep.
For the love of god, strawman, show me where i said that.
My prediction for his line LINES UP WITH MARCEL ALMOST IDENTICALLY. You know, that projection system you beat me over the head with in the Marcum tirade a few days ago?
I said three things:
- I think he took advantage of Minute Maid by hitting a lot of opposite field homers
- He can’t do that at Busch III, so I think his HR numbers might suffer.
- His slugging has dropped off a lot the past two years and he’s now in a home park that suppresses slugging considerably more than any other park that he’s played in for more than 2 months.
I’m not taking it further than that, because parsing his splits at Busch is a sample size issue, and if he’s healthy he might get back to around .500 slugging — I just don’t think that’s going to happen. I’m not going to predict something I don’t believe in just because you’re being adamant about it, yet I feel like that’s what you want to happen here.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Mar 28, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha, VEB has missed you
come around more often!
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
I think I provided enough data to answer these questions
If you have more, LOOK THEM UP ON YOUR OWN.
I’m not your statistical whipping boy — do your own research.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
My disclaimer
was a feeble attempt to keep people like you from nitpicking at analysis that isn’t meant to be predictive of anything. I’m not predicting how much he’ll be worth from my analysis, although I did give my opinion about where I think he’ll end up statistically……and it’s right in line with where your oh so fucking precious projection systems are.
I think Berkman’s in decline and not likely to improve to his career average numbers, which bgh mentioned in the post. I provided evidence as to why I think that way. WHY IS IT WRONG TO MAKE AN INFERENCE BASED ON EVIDENCE? It’s not, it’s just not good enough for you. To which I say: I don’t care, deal with it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Which, ironically
Should have helped his away numbers somewhat, just from playing in a better offense and playing in some of the more hittable parks in the big leagues in the AL East.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Like any true human
you have to tank it if your team trades you to the yankees for half a season.
by RasmustheRipper on Mar 28, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Yeah I'm reccing that
We should value Berkman MORE because he tanked the Yankees.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
You just can't put a dollar sign on that.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh come on now
The last two seasons of splits are not as predictive as a career’s worth of splits. He’s only had 1,000 plate appearances the past two years (so 500 at home and on the road – and some of that is with the Yankees).
In fact neither are particularly predictive. The best way to adjust for his home ballpark is to take his aggregate performance and adjust it by his home ballpark.
I don’t see any reason to believe that Berkman has taken advantage of Minutemade more than other players.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to refer you to my addendum post
Because I covered this exact complaint in that post.
It’s like I know what you’re going to post before you post it or something.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
The only reason you anticipated my response
Is because your post so easily led to it.
The proper addendum should be this:
The above analysis is in no way predicting Lance Berkman’s performance at Busch stadium or on the road in 2011. It is simply an inference based on a medium size sample of at-bats over the last two seasons that seem to indicate that his power ability outside of Minute Maid park has diminished considerably. How strong an indication and large that decline is, is a whole other issue. In fact given the variability of small sample size Home/Road splits, it’s possible that Minutemaid park has actually hurt his power the past two years. Now it’s more likely that it’s the other way, but there is still a very low confidence to those numbers and thus I recognize that they should not be used as a particularly strong defense of my viewpoint
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to take a wild guess:
You didn’t look at any of the links I posted, did you?
You saw what looked like predictive analysis and then went right into: “This isn’t predictive, so I’m going to nitpick the everloving shit out of it because I’m a math genius who is only interested in the predictive nature of analysis — therefore correlations that don’t have the necessary r-value simply aren’t worth discussing, for anyone, ever.” mode.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
You mean the spray chart links?
Yes those would be helpful with some context – like the spray charts of other players in Minutemaid or some kind of baseline to show that Berkman had benefitted more than other players.
And what do you mean that your analysis wasn’t predictive? You’re making a claim right? That Berkman will be hurt by moving from Minutemaid – what is that if not predictive?
And if you don’t want scrutiny of your opinions, why do you get so animated when people argue them?
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll keep the in mind
when I’m homeless and out of job because I spent my entire workday looking at spray charts for ever single lefthanded hitter that has hit in Minute Maid since 2005 just to satisfy your ridiculous standards for what is analysis and what isn’t.
If you want more analysis, by all means, GO LOOK IT UP! But you haven’t done that either, so stop bitching at me about it. You posted some crap about “not being predictive” and then quoted his career slugging percentage without mentioning his last two seasons. I mean you’re doing the same things you’re accusing me of doing — it’s just that you are always right and goddamn if anyone is going to argue with you about it, because you just throw the book at them when they do. Again, it’s tiring.
I just made an inference based on some evidence that I took the time to look up in the 15 minutes I had between meetings this morning. Sorry if it doesn’t mean your rigorous THT standards for factual statistical posting. I’d like to get a look at the guidelines sometime….wait, never mind, I don’t have time to make some random person on the internet happy all the time.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
My claim
was that I don’t think he’ll approach his career slugging percentage playing in Busch III, which is what was mentioned in the daily post.
Key words being: “I DON’T THINK”, which implies an inference that I decided to back up with some data. Excuse me, Dr. Spengler.
You appear to be saying that everyone should just post what they think and not back it up with any evidence at all unless they have four hours to do a rigorous study of the issue and then a double blind trial using many random players to come up with something close to what Marcel would say about the issue. Come on, dude, give it a rest.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
So why do you get so pissed off when I disagree with you?
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't
I get pissed off when people attack my method as a way of saying they disagree with the conclusions. That’s fucking bullshit, and you know it. If I were making outrageous claims I could see it — but I’m not. My projection lines up with projection systems, I was just pointing out that I’m not bullish on him outperforming his projection or performing at his career level, and here’s why.
You haven’t demonstrated a better method….while also claiming that the evidence given isn’t really evidence because of small sample sizes THAT WERE COMPILED OVER A TWO YEAR PERIOD. I’m sorry, but this just all seems hypocritical to me.
It’s to the point now where I don’t even take you seriously anymore. I could just put up an analysis that just agrees with Marcel and the other projection systems and you’d never have a problem with it….yet that’s pretty much what I did here and you have a problem with it.
It’s an un-winnable situation. It was fun before you got here today, and now I’ve spent an hour defending myself for no good reason because you have some level of standard that only you and Tom Tango seem to be able to reach. I’m not making any outrageous claims here — I had an idea, I looked up some data, I made an inference, and that’s that. If you disagree, that’s fine, but there’s no need to attack methods that are fairly well known and stand up to scrutiny just because you disagree.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't know why you think my standard of evidence is so strong
You posited an opinion, I disagreed with your opinion and attack the evidence behind your opinion.
What else do you want me to argue against? Should I talk about Berkman’s heart or make reference to your mother? Isn’t arguing the evidence the most civil form of discourse?
Regardless, my claim is that Berkman was not particularly effected by Minutemaid and thus his numbers will not be hurt much from moving out of there. I don’t know what kind of counterevidence I need to support that claim as it’s a passive argument. I posted his damn splits.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You've looked at his career splits
but ignored his splits for the last two years, which is the most recent data.
You are cherry picking to advance your argument, just like you’re accusing me of doing.
I get sick of this hypocrisy.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Actually here is what I said
The last two seasons of splits are not as predictive as a career’s worth of splits. He’s only had 1,000 plate appearances the past two years (so 500 at home and on the road – and some of that is with the Yankees).
In fact neither are particularly predictive. The best way to adjust for his home ballpark is to take his aggregate performance and adjust it by his home ballpark.
I don’t see any reason to believe that Berkman has taken advantage of Minutemade more than other players.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup
And again, I’m not interested in doing that. I’m interested in
- “Gee, he hits a lot of home runs to left field the last few years.”,
- “Oh, interesting, he’s hitting more and more home runs that direction as we get closer and closer to 2011 while his home runs to other fields have dropped down”.
- “I wonder if that means that he’ll have trouble in a ballpark that doesn’t allow many home runs to left field?”
- “Well, given his last two years slugging the ball, it’s possible this could be a real problem”.
Why isn’t that enough to draw a simple conclusion? Why does it have to be predicated on exhaustive analysis?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
And so when I say
“I don’t think there is a lot of evidence to support that”, you shouldn’t get pissed off at me.
If you are not posting a strong opinion than why do you argue back and forth with people who disagree with you?
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Please let it drop.
Please.
Proud member of the Sports Injury Industrial Complex: We feel your pain and it feels good.
Just heard Futurama got renewed fo two more years.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I can't tell if this is a good thing
Or if the show is just gonna get bad to the point that it ruins earlier episodes somehow.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I think cows are nice...
:=8)
Whatever it is, I'm against it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq4eeyVr_Hs
Flipping through his home / road splits real quick
it’s clear that he loved hitting in the Juice Box. But it’s not like he started sac bunting all the time on the road.
If he has anything left in the tank, I’m sure he’ll adjust to Busch and be productive. For as long as he can still stand upright.
Boog woulda.
by The Continental on Mar 28, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we will end up with a very expensive (not that I care) and very effective pinch hitter by June.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I hate so many things about your sig.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Silva's 2011 line after spending 20 minutes with Duncan:
271 innings, 385 hits, 61 HR allowed, 17 Ks, 2 BBs, 3.12 ERA, 25-14 record.
Do you really not like this?
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
I think the point of this analysis
is that we need to fill the “belt buckle disappearing” magician role vacated by Dennys Reyes.
I’m not sure bringing Carlos Silva to a town known for toasted ravioli is such a good idea.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
IF He had been released early or before ST
then i may have perhaps been able to condone picking him up for the league min. Maybe.
But of course, thats the not the situation and a guy like him who has rejected Minor League assignments multiple times (IIRC) is not someone you want on the roster.
you're
The only reason I would want Silva on this team
is to laugh at the Cubs for paying 11.5 mil to a (hopefully) competent pitcher who is throwing 200 innings for us
by RasmustheRipper on Mar 28, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Well there's two ways to look at this:
- Pessimistic: Berkman gets hurt walking to the batter’s box on Memorial Day.
- Optimistic: Allen Craig pulls a Ludwick and hits .400 in limited AB’s in the first two months of the season, making Berkman irrelevant.
Praying for #2, Praying for #2, Praying for #2
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
This, this! A million times, this!
If it's a meme, or looks like it might be a meme, I do not get it.
or...or...or
Berkman realizes that he can’t run, so just walks up to Skip and tells him to run off to the bench because he always wanted to play next to Pujols, which incites the competitive fire in both of them to have career defensive years
by RasmustheRipper on Mar 28, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I honestly have no idea what to expect of Berkman
I guess time will tell, but I’m still a little put off by the fact that we possibly could have signed Uggla instead. We’d be in much better shape to win the division right now if we had, even with Adam going down.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
Traded for and then signed, but I agree.
Looking at what the Braves gave up—and I still believe it to be pennies on the dollar for getting an elite offensive second baseman who can transition to third and be an elite offensive third baseman from a club within your division—and I don’t understand why we did not beat the Braves’ offer. But this is all me speculating on no information whatsoever as to whether any talks took place between the Cards and Marlins.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Exactly. It's all speculation.
Florida clearly values Infante higher than we do. I don’t know whom we would offer that they would like more. The Berk<Uggla people are really making all sorts of assumptions about a potential trade for Uggla.
If it's a meme, or looks like it might be a meme, I do not get it.
Yes and let's not forget that Berk
was a 1-year deal. This allows TONS of flexibility next year to evaluate Freese/Craig/Jay and maybe some extray payroll to allocate to Pujols or solve 2b.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Uggla would have effectively been a one-year rental, too.
I believe 2011 was his last arbitration year. The Braves bought it out with his extension. The Cards could have traded for him and let him walk, giving them as much flexibility as they have with Berkman.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Fair enough
but I bet there were some off the book extension talks done with the Braves before the deal was made. AND don’t forget that Berkman cost us absolutely nothing in trade.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I'm sure there were some talks.
Given what Uggla ended up signing for though (AAV not years) and the relatively small amount of talent it took to get him in trade I still think it was a steal for the Braves and the Cardinals should have made more of a push for him.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure
But we have a weak enough farm as it is, it’d be insane to gut the system for a 1 year rental. That was the whole point of the berkman signing, 1 yr gamble without giving any prospects up.
by lopey986 on Mar 28, 2011 1:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Gutting the system
I don’t think we would have in putting together a comparable package to what the Braves gave the Marlins. It’s not like they gave away someone like Shelby Miller in the deal.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Looked back over it to make sure I didn't miss anything
Omar Infante and Mike Dunn for Dan Uggla
So a utility infielder who had a career year and a power lefty reliever with walk problems…I’m not sure how matching this kind of package talent wise would have gutted our system.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, YOU view Infante as a utility infielde who had a career year.
That’s probably not how the Marlins view him.
If it's a meme, or looks like it might be a meme, I do not get it.
Perhaps
but they’re planning on using him as a infielder/oufielder/utility guy this year so maybe they do. He might be the starting second baseman or he might be their starting left fielder or who knows.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's their leadoff hitter and everyday 2nd baseman.
He’s also had an outstanding spring, for whatever that’s worth.
If it's a meme, or looks like it might be a meme, I do not get it.
Outstanding springs are not worth the sunshine in which they are bathed in!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Well, hardly anything is worth that much.
If it's a meme, or looks like it might be a meme, I do not get it.
Now, let me go fawn over Allen Craig's spring stats...
66 PA/.333 BA/.424 OBP/.526 SLG/.951 OPS
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Mar 28, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The last article I read about him
was talking about him playing left field and Coghlan moving back to second. I don’t doubt that he’ll hit leadoff for them at least part of the year but I don’t know that they see him as a regular at any position.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Who do we have that's comparable to infante?
We really don’t have any type of middle infield depth or versatile Everyman depth from which to trade which would lead me to think if we can’t give them something they can use at the major league level from day 1 then we are probably gonna have to give them something with future potential to be of great value to the club and we’ve really only got a handful of those players as it is. I’d rather not deal any of them since we may be going into next season with a 100 million dollar payroll consisting of 8 guys, we are gonna need all the no cost talent we can find.
by lopey986 on Mar 28, 2011 3:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think the Cardinals could have managed it with two players alone.
I do think some combo of Craig or Jay, Tyler Greene, and an upside pitcher could have gotten it done. Lance Lynn came to mind at the time. It’s different now with Wainwright out but at the time I would have happily done that deal.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The only explanation
is that the Marlins organization were bullish on the minor leaguers they got when nobody else was.
Considering how well the Braves seem to identify talent, however, this seems unlikely.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Umm
we DID trade J.D. Drew for Adam Wainwright and Jason Marquis.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
one year of jd drew for adam wainwright is a great trade
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
by prophetjohn on Mar 28, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
The whole point of getting Drew was to solidify their outfield for THAT SEASON, and then hope to get him to sign long term. And he had an 8 WAR season!!!! Wainwright wouldn’t have helped them until at least 2006, when he helped us win the World Series (and they thought he had major arm problems, as the year before they he suffered an elbow injury. They essentially traded us “damaged Adam Wainwright”), and Marquis wasn’t going to make their rotation that year anyway.
In exchange, they got Drew, who solidified their outfield and ended up being their best player in 2004, and a useful utility guy in Eli Marrero. The trade is a win-win for both clubs really when you look back on it historically. The Braves got what they wanted, and the Cardinals got a future 20 game winner and an innings eater who helped us win the ’04 pennant.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Mar 28, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i think the cardinals are the clear winners,
if we’re looking back on it. they got 8 WAR out of drew and we got (so far) 18.5 WAR out of wainwright on the cheap. mortgaging the future for what helps THIS SEASON doesn’t justify mortgaging the future. whether or not they signed drew long term was irrelevant. they could have signed him as a free agent.
it was probably the right move to make in the moment since, as you point out, wainwright could have never seen the major leagues. but in hindsight, it was a clear, unequivocal win for the cardinals. even with the strength of the atlanta’s rotation every single year, there’s not a single one that isn’t appreciably better with waino in it.
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
by prophetjohn on Mar 28, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Trades aren't made in hindsight
They are made with the best possible information at the time and based on the intent of the two teams involved.
“Looking back” to determine a “winner” is something only the MSM likes to do to prove themselves smarter than everyone else, when they probably would have made the same deal 9 times out of 10 had they been in the GM’s shoes.
They got 8 WAR out of drew and we got (so far) 18.5 WAR out of wainwright on the cheap. mortgaging the future for what helps THIS SEASON doesn’t justify mortgaging the future. whether or not they signed drew long term was irrelevant. they could have signed him as a free agent.
They also got to bid on his services without any competition for a full season before he left for FA. Never mind that losing those two guys didn’t effect their ballclub ONE FUCKING BIT the next season, and that Adam Wainwright was a speck in Leo Mazzone’s eye at the time of the deal. There’s no way if you’re Atlanta that you’re anticipating that Adam Wainwright is going to have back to back 5+ WAR seasons 6 years after the trade and then NOT trade him because of that small chance the he’ll be that good. Especially when you’re the Braves and you’re one of the best organizations in baseball at procuring and developing major league talent.
What value would have given Wainwright in the 2003 offseason? He had been a solid starter at AA the previous season, but had hurt his elbow at the end of the year — which is why he threw only 12 starts for the Cardinals in the minors in 2004 (As well as dropping from the #13 prospect to the #49 prospect after putting up a stellar year in AA): He was hurt for much of the season.
I’m not interested in who “won” the trade — it’s stupid to even think about trades in terms of winning and losing, because it isn’t a zero sum game. I’m interested in whether the trade at the time accomplished the goals of both teams. In this case, yes, it did. The Cardinals removed a large arbitration salary from their payroll and got rotation/bullpen help along with an injured top prospect in return. The Braves got a talented outfielder that ended up putting up one of his best seasons, was healthy all year, and helped them win the AL East for the 14th straight time.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
This is like you saying
that if Shelby Miller were to have an arm injury (and possibly looking at Tommy John) at the end of last season you wouldn’t trade he, Lohse, and Trever Miller for, say, Robinson Cano and Francisco Cervelli. That’s basically the trade the Braves made, and Wainwright was a better prospect than Miller prior to his injury.
You wouldn’t make that trade? If not, I’m really glad you aren’t running our club.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
actually, it's not like me saying that at all!
it would be like me saying:
it was probably the right move to make in the moment since, as you point out, [miller] could have never seen the major leagues.
and then adding several years later “miller turned out to be really freaking good anyway, so it kind of sucks that he’s gone now”
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
They are made with the best possible information at the time and based on the intent of the two teams involved.
i kinda covered this in my post
losing those two guys didn’t effect their ballclub ONE FUCKING BIT the next season
it’s a bit shortsighted to only look at the very next season. we could trade shleby miller now for [big bopper in his walk year] and it wouldn’t affect the 2012 cardinals.
There’s no way if you’re Atlanta that you’re anticipating that Adam Wainwright is going to have back to back 5+ WAR seasons 6 years after the trade and then NOT trade him because of that small chance the he’ll be that good
again:
it was probably the right move to make in the moment since, as you point out, wainwright could have never seen the major leagues.
I’m not interested in who "won" the trade — it’s stupid to even think about trades in terms of winning and losing, because it isn’t a zero sum game
oh, well i am. i don’t think it’s stupid to think about. i think it’s interesting and i think there are things to be learned from the outcomes of past trades regardless of how they looked at hour zero
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
Then you should be taking the reason for the team making the trade into account
You aren’t. That’s all that needs to be said.
Atlanta got what they wanted: A great season from a RF and an exclusive negotiating window with an oft-injured talent that they weren’t able to take advantage of.
So from their viewpoint, THEY WON.
The Cardinals got two pitchers who helped them at various times over the next 5 years. So from our standpoint, WE WON.
It’s all about how you keep score if you’re evaluating winning and losing. I’m pretty sure that even extrapolated value at the time of the trade probably favored Atlanta, because WW might have had Tommy John and never made it back to the majors as a pitcher (see Ankiel, Rick or Benes, Alan) and Marquis might have just sucked like he did his last two years in Atlanta.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm sure that we'll be having this argument again in June
when Brett Wallace is hitting .270 with 10 homers and hits back-to-back homers off of Kyle Lohse in a blowout Astros win.
Because you “plan for the future” guys only seem to be good at one thing: planning for the future. Even the “draft and develop” teams make an occasional purchase on the trade or free agent market, which, in your worldview, they should never do, because they’re giving up future low cost value for expensive present value. In your world, no team ever makes a trade that isn’t to it’s long term advantage, aka: Nobody ever makes a trade.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
you "plan for the future" guys only seem to be good at one thing: planning for the future
regarding me specifically, this is probably a fair accusation. i would be a shitty GM because i would be too hesitant to ever pull of one of thes kind of trades.
that’s not what we’re talking about, though. these kind of trades are basically exercises in being able to predict what various players are going to do in the future. without being able to look at any of the trades after the fact, we’re losing out on a major way to be able to hold executives accountable. with regard to drew, atlanta did a hell of a jjob of predicting his future performance. they shit the bed on wainwright, though. look, it’s not like waino was anything resembling the centerpiece of the deal. i guarantee there was an arm in the braves system that the cardinals woul have taken that didn’t end up hitting the highs waino has so far (wouldn’t be hard to do). in that respect, the trade was, at the very least, not as good for them as it could have been
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
Like I said
I think the Marquis was actually the targeted player, but Drew was too good to give up for just Marquis, so they got a LOOGY in King and an injured former #1 in Wainwright. That’s a good package of players.
We were dealing from strength to address weakness, and so was Atlanta. It’s really a win-win (yes, those sorts of trades do happen) for what the expectations were from both sides. And I’ll venture to say that Wainwright turned out far better than anyone in our front office thought he would at the time of the deal — Jocketty has admitted that much publicly.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Eh?
I know it was a good trade. I’m one of the people who thinks that (SHOCK) JD Drew is a good Player of the game of based balls. (Mostly because i’ve only ever known him as a) a Red Sock and b) from his BRef page).
I was rebutting Eckstreem’s assertion that the Braves FO is a bad judge of talent, which he adjudged based on the Waino-Drew trade. My point was that the FO which made that trade is different to the Braves’ current FO. Therefore it is impossible to quantify the Atlanta Orgs. ability to judge talent on a trade which took place 7 or 8 years ago.
you're
Honestly
I think it was a pretty good trade for both teams, but in the end the Cards came out WAY ahead.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Again
This is just not true. Atlanta made that deal to get a guy to help them that year. In that aspect, they win the trade from the standpoint of which they made the trade in the first place.
The Cardinals moved Drew to avoid paying him his final year of arbitration, got two good young players in return, and then brought back Ray Lankford to see if he could work his magic one more year in LF — when that didn’t work, Jocketty went out and got Larry Walker at the deadline. Would it have been nice having an 8 WAR season from Drew? Yes, but our needs at the end of ’03 began and ended with starting pitching — we were the 3rd worst staff in the NL in ’03 and needed an upgrade. We got a Ray King to help our bullpen from the left side (and say what you want, he had a couple of good years there) and a upside pick for a starter in Marquis while Atlanta sweetened the deal with a #1 pick the previous season in Wainwright, who, again, was kinda damaged goods at the time.
Why is it that we always must look at trades and determined who “won”? As if both teams are always trying to win the trade in respect to future WAR? If this was the case, nobody would ever make trades and the free agent market would be even more prevalent in terms of improving your team, which is a lose-lose for ownership and GM’s and younger players as well.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Good point in your last paragraph
Teams just don’t do things very often that they don’t perceive to be in their interest. There are gimme trades every once in a while where you can basically say “I think this team is just dumb for doing this” but even in those circumstances the “losing” team might just be boneheaded enough to think the move is a good one for them.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
If we want to start talking about boneheaded trades
we should really start with 3/4 of the GM’s in the NBA, then move on to Ed Wade, and then end the fucking conversation.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Heh, I was pretty much thinking of Ed Wade and his ilk with that comment.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I mean,
we gave Brett Tomko 30 starts in 2003 with a 5.00+ ERA and an FIP over 5.00! AND HE WAS OUR THIRD BEST STARTER!!! We gave 8+ starts to Jason Simontacchi and Garrett Stephenson that year AND picked up Sterling Hitchcock as a deadline upgrade. Yes, you read that right — Sterling Hitchcock UPGRADED our pitching staff in 2003.
Marquis was actually the guy we targeted in that trade (power sinker, rubber arm, Dave Duncan project and was only 24 at the time). But he wasn’t enough for Drew, so they threw in their injured former #1, Wainwright, to juice the deal as well as Ray King, who really helped out our bullpen from the left side in ’04 and ’05.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
teams are necessarily trying to "beat" the other teams
when executing trades for the sake of beating the other team. but they’re absolutely making a trade because they think it’s in the best interest of the team given their circumstances. so, i don’t think it’s a completely irrelevant endeavor to look at past trades and see which team best succeeding in achieving their goal of improving their own team.
i wouldn’t say the cards beat the braves, but that trade helped the cardinals franchise a lot more than it helped the braves franchise
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
No it didn't
It only does because of the way you keep score, which is irrelevant, because you’re looking at it in hindsight instead of at the time of the trade.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
actually if you read what i'm typing!
you’d see that i’m looking at it from both perspectives!
and in hindsight, which is what actually happened, adam wainwright has been really freaking good and jd drew has been pretty freaking good (for the boston red sox)
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
it's kind of like all the fussing over the lohse contract
in october 2008, it looks like an okay, or slightly below average, contract. had he lived up to projections, it would have been exactly that. unfortunately, the real world got in the way and it’s been a huge burden thus far
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
We're talking past each other
I’m not interested in hindsight, unless you’re going to use the present data to scrutinize decisions made in the past BASED ON WHAT THOSE PEOPLE KNEW AT THE TIME. You’re not doing that. You’re calling John Schuerholz a fool because he traded away a future 20 game winner….only that guy doesn’t do it until 5 years later. And he got an 8 WAR player in return. I mean, what an idiot, he must have gotten a great run of luck to win those 15 straight division titles.
Had Drew played only 100 games and hit .230 with 4 home runs, this trade would be an epic win for the Cardinals. Brock for Broglio all over again. But it wasn’t, so it isn’t.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Had Drew played only 100 games and hit .230 with 4 home runs, this trade would be an epic win for the Cardinals.
so you’re okay with evaluating trades in hindsight, but only to a certain point in the future? that makes less sense than what i thought you were saying. mixed messages
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
No, I'm saying,
from your point of view, that scenario was an epic win for us.
As it is it was a win for both teams — both teams got what they wanted. That’s what I’ve been saying the whole time. You seem to think that one team always has to win every trade. It’s not zero sum — both teams can win a trade.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
But without the value of hindsight,
we could never accurately judge our trading strategy. If you just make trade after trade after trade and they all turn out unsuccessful, how can you judge that without looking back on each one from a point in the future?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I don't have a problem with hindsight
but you can’t act as if Walt Jocketty KNEW that Wainwright was going to be an ACE and that JD Drew wouldn’t sign a long term contract with the Braves and that Jason Marquis would be a Duncan reclamation project for a year until he wasn’t a year after that, and blah blah blah blah blah.
You can’t be Doc Brown or Marty McFly and scrutinize the decisions being made in 2003 with 2011 data. It’s not fair to the parties involved. You can simply see how those decisions worked out. What good comes from looking at this trade in the future: We should definitely trade for more of other team’s injured top prospect pitchers? Does anyone here think that’s a useful line of reasoning? How about: We should always deal players before the last season of their contracts to make sure that we get good players in return for them instead of hoping for decent draft picks? Are you sure you want to trade Albert Pujols last January for 5 prospects?
I mean, I get what you’re saying, I just don’t think that anything useful comes out of it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Nicely put. Of course, now you have someone agreeing with you who thinks the Angels did well to get Vernon.
If it's a meme, or looks like it might be a meme, I do not get it.
I actually think that was a defensible trade...
…if you look at what the Angels spend per marginal win. The contract is horrible, but Wells was a good player, not great, last year, so I think if you get him out of Toronto where the fans just loathe him due to a contract that was put in front of him that none of them would ever turn down.
He’s never going to be worth his contract, clearly, but that doesn’t mean that he can’t help the Angels win baseball games and be better than the players that he’s taking the place of.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Yes, exactly! Plus, Arte was just adding payroll for a few years without changing ticket prices.
It’s his damn money, and Wells is clearly an upgrade over Juan Rivera.
If it's a meme, or looks like it might be a meme, I do not get it.
Honestly
I think that’s only true because of Rivera’s tendency to be made of glass. He gets hurt all the time, but when he’s healthy and right, he’s a very good hitter. I would guess that Wells is also an upgrade in LF — getting his fatness out of CF is probably the biggest gain the Angels will receive in the deal!
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
....And
JD Drew had an 8 WAR season for the Braves who were trying to win a title that year and had little to no use for either of those players in order to do so.
Atlanta also tried and failed to sign Drew to an extension all during that season and then let him leave when the Dodgers severely overpaid him.
This is not a similar situation. The Braves knew that Wainwright was good (but they also knew that he had elbow problems) and they knew that Jason Marquis had talent but was inconsistent and uncoachable. You could literally parse Mazzone and Duncan year by year saying the same things about Bi-Polar Betty.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Remind me who our Bipolar Betty is?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Mar 28, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Never mind. It's gotta be Marquis, right?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Mar 28, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
me too
Berkman has lost a lot of weight, which could affect his power, but could also make him more durable in the outfield (and he might reach another few baseballs with a tad more speed). in this case, he provides another OBP cog into the offensive machine.
or the weight loss was not that great, he flounders in the outfield, eventually becomes an expensive pinch hitter.
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't everyone come to camp 20+ pounds lighter?
by lopey986 on Mar 28, 2011 3:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nope
See C.C. Sabathia, Bartolo Colon, A.J. Burnett, Vernon Wells, etc.
Lots of people come into camp overweight and out of shape.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Carlos Silva.
God I love watching the Cubs suck at everything!!!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
no
not everyone. if some of those guys were that much lighter they would be skeletons
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I think a lot of that is Berkman taking advantage of the Juicebox
Not being reliant upon it.
For his career his slugging is basically identical at home and on the road. And that comes with a batting average much higher at home. He actually has hit a higher percentage of his home runs on the road.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, I can't do any analysis without having you shit all over it.
Thanks for reminding me.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Yes I'm sorry for politely pointing out the splits which completely contradict your argument
But no, you’re a grown man! You shouldn’t have to deal with criticism! It’s my fault!
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys should probably never reply to each others' posts
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Funny
You don’t see me replying when he posts about stats. Mainly because he’s not worth arguing with about this stuff — he’s got his own way and that’s the way he’s going to be. I’m fine with that. I just don’t like seeing my “less-scientific” stuff get parroted like it’s worthless analysis when it isn’t.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
The Beatles are the worst band in history.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
For me to poop on!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
by mysterui on Mar 28, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You did?
Really? bgh pointed that out way back in the thread, and I replied to it, looking at just his last two seasons, in which his road power declined and also demonstrated a decline in home runs to right field, both at home and away.
Get over yourself — you OVERSCRUTINIZE. Everything has to be perfect or you just nitpick it to death. It’s no fun, it’s frustrating, and you appear to enjoy making other people feel stupid.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Yes I posted this comment before I saw bgh's post
Your response to bgh’s post – and by proxy mine – prompted an opposite response.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
For his career, he's a pretty good right handed hitter
but he’s not been the last two seasons.
But I suppose since that isn’t a big enough sample, it doesn’t mean anything.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm not talking about his right handed hitting
I’m talking about his hitting in Minutemaid ballpark.
For his career he’s hit just as well on the road, the last two seasons he hasn’t. Due to the variability of splits – especially in a small sample size, the latter means virtually nothing. That he has hit the same on the road over his career means more. The only thing that his H/R splits the past two years show is that there is a small chance that he has benefitted more from Minutemaid over the past two seasons. That’s a very weak argument by itself.
To support the splits argument (or actually the other way around) you brought up his spray chars. But those charts don’t mean anything without context. They don’t show that he has benefitted more from Minutemaid than others!
So you have one argument that doesn’t actually make a claim, and one argument that makes a very weak claim. Excuse me for disagreeing with you.
And my disagreement is only proportional to the strenght of your opinion.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
They don’t show that he has benefitted more from Minutemaid than others!
I didn’t make that claim. I just stated that he took advantage. “More than others” is a subjective claim made by you while being obsequious, as usual, and it’s irrelevant anyway: we’re not talking about other people, we’re talking about home runs that were home runs at MM but wouldn’t be home runs anywhere else. Of which Berkman has a lot, especially to left field.
Due to the variability of splits – especially in a small sample size, the latter means virtually nothing.
So his two most recent years’ data mean nothing? Interesting. I guess Manny Ramirez is going back to hitting his career average this year, right? Oh, wait, no, he’s probably not….
You’re disagreeing without disagreeing at all. You’re attacking me and my method, not the conclusions. You’ve yet to provide any evidence whatsoever that he’s going to be any better than what my conclusions tell me that he’s going to be. And this is all business as usual. So just don’t bother replying anymore. If you want to disagree, apply your rigorous standards to the disagreement instead of ripping on methods and small sample sizes. If you have a better analysis, prove it. Otherwise, STFU already.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
why don't you calm down and walk away? clearly this is not getting you anywhere. and even abbrieviated,
you don’t need to curse at anybody else here.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Why don't you make the same case to the person attacking me?
And yes, attacking my methods and calling them worthless is attacking me.
Again: I’M ALWAYS THE BAD GUY.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Disagreeing with your evidence is not attacking your personally, no
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes it is....
You have no good reason to disagree with me other than labeling my analysis “predictive” which it doesn’t claim to be.
Sorry for trying to post interesting information that I find fun. I guess I’ll just go find another website where I don’t have to know the definition of pi to make a fucking argument.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
1) because he's not the one telling other people to shut the fuck up.
2) no, it’s not.
3) you’re the bad guy when you’re the one cursing people out.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Mar 28, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not cursing at hime
I’m simply asking him to shut up. I don’t think that’s un-necessary given the circumstances.
If he wants to do a FanPost refuting me and then coming up with the same conclusions I do, he should.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
a) if the "F" in STFU stands for something other than "fuck," explain.
b) this is a public blog. people are allowed to comment. you are not here to decide who gets to comment. if you don’t like what someone says, flag it.
c) of course he can. maybe he will.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
no he won't
because the conclusions are the same. So I get to one place one way, and he gets to one place the other way, yet I’m the one that’s wrong?
Show me how that makes any logical since, tom.
You can defend him all you want — he doesn’t make this place any better by throttling anyone with an opinion.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
b) this is a public blog. people are allowed to comment. you are not here to decide who gets to comment. if you don’t like what someone says, flag it.
This is funny, because apparently you are. And if he would have politely read my disclaimer, thought for 8 fucking seconds, he could have saved his breath. But he didn’t, and now he’s in the process of ruining what was an interesting discussion.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
He's not asking you not to comment dude.
He’s asking you to quit sounding like someone off Jersey Shore during your discussions. You don’t have to tell anyone to STFU. You can simply ignore VEP’s posts and go on with your discussion without harm.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Simpson quote that a friend posted on my FB wall:
“Baseball is a sport played by the dextrous, but only understood by the Poindextrous.”
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 28, 2011 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
That's awesome
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
whats up mystejuanpierre
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Mar 28, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What's up shitlord
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
why weren't you there, btw?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Forgot about it; was driving back to Springfield from Rolla
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
awesome.
19M for a slap hitting outfielder….hehehe.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Where's the freaking "team" tab on mlb.com?
It’s the only thing I ever click and they hid it from me.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Upper right hand corner.
Right above the Fantasy tab. It took me some time too.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
by ClemsonGirl on Mar 28, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
hey guys be a sweetie and fill this out
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2011/3/27/2075014/community-projection-for-kyle-mcclellan
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
Already did
Looking forward to seeing the results.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
we've got some pretty optimistic projections rolling in!
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
by prophetjohn on Mar 28, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i would take it
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
by prophetjohn on Mar 28, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
ahaha jose canseco
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
coming in 2011: Boog would've moments count....
GAHHHHH!!!!
I forgot we had his worthless twin brother Ozzie in ‘92-’93!!!!
:=8O
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/27/2137327/former-slugger-jose-canseco-skips.html#ixzz1HtkblVW4
Whatever it is, I'm against it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq4eeyVr_Hs
musial should just sue his pants off.
but he’s too good for that.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 28, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
What in the world could he sue him for?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
it'd be libel, I think.
and suing anyone for libel is a waste of time.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
eh, I've never sued anyone
don’t really care to know the difference between the 2. I did have a criminology course about 5 years ago though.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
libel is written defamation, if I recall correctly.
Wiki!
How to prove libel
There are several ways a person must go about proving that libel has taken place. For example, in the United States, the person first must prove that the statement was false. Second, that person must prove that the statement caused harm. And, third, they must prove that the statement was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement. These steps are for an ordinary citizen. In the case of a celebrity or public official trying to prove libel, they must prove the first three steps, and must (in the United States) prove the statement was made with the intent to do harm, or with reckless disregard for the truth.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Actually, Chass is probably dumb enough to say he meant to do harm
so they may have a case!
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
ah, the old "You ordered the code red, didn't you" trick
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I ORDERED IT!!!!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Not entirely a waste of time.
Bloggers are apparently finding themselves under fire.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Not necessarily always a waste of time
but if you are a public figure like Stan, it would be very difficult. I think you’d probably have to prove that Chass basically knew for a fact it was all false and published it anyway. He researched it very poorly, was terribly negligent as a journalist, but he can assert a (very) flimsy basis for believing it to be true.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
I don't think he's apologized to Verducci yet, either.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
More Marvin Miller puppeteering.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
new food and other things around busch stadium this year...
apparently all you ladies have a larger selection of pink and fitted stuff at the team store…
http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/251765/3/New-in-2011-Cardinals-merchandise-and-grub
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 28, 2011 12:00 PM EDT reply actions
hehe
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
only at ksdk.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 28, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
FFS, it's a local company and they still can't spell it right.
Rollings
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
that's just redirecting to youtube.com for me
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
by prophetjohn on Mar 28, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
My god, bacon wrapped BBQ hotdogs
There will be pegacorns at Busch this year!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Mar 28, 2011 12:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I ate them there last year.
If they are talking about the same one. It had bbq beans, pico de gallo, chipotle sauce and fried onion straws on it.
It was a Hunter hot dog stand, only place I could find them.
I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it... Jack Handy
Springfield has been canceled.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
all of them.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Guess everybody will be just as unemployed as me
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
oh yeah
wife said she had to go to some strange place to get fingerprinted. It wasn’t the police station. It was more like a small strip mall with some sort of apartments in it. She didn’t remember the name of the place.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
sounds... not weird at all.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
yeah, I think maybe she was drugged while she was there to make her forget the experience
so that now all she has is a vague recollection of what might have happened
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Thanks! I got mine done at a FedEx store in LA, but it cost like $75. Reimbursed by Edward Jones, but still
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
they had a good run
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
by prophetjohn on Mar 28, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
yep.
so jaime will get the start tomorrow in the final grapefruit game. is westbrook going today?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 28, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought he was.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
he is.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 28, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Why?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
it's cold and rainy.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
fair nuff.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
So I was in dead last place in the VEB March Madness group after the opening weekend
If Kentucky beats UConn, I win the damn thing. Crazy year for hoops!
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
ESPN had 5.9M entries and two people picked the final four.
ridiculous.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I'm surprised anybody did
Of course, ESPN.com allows you to enter up to 10 brackets, so maybe those two people did that and just went nuts with those brackets.
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Mar 28, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The only people...
who picked VCU were it’s fans. VCU has about 15,000 male students, they draw 6,000 people to their games, and they split the Richmond market with the University of Richmond. Let’s say 200,000 people on the planet care about VCU basketball.
75% of those will fill out brackets, 20% will do it on the WWL, and 50% will fill out a novelty bracket that has VCU making the final four. That’s 15,000 brackets with VCU in the FF.
Now the chances of any one of THOSE having Butler in the FF is probably 1 in 50 – that’s 300 brackets. Kentucky was maybe 1 in 10 – that’s 30 brackets. Then UConn was probably also 1 in 10 – that leaves 3.
Two brackets is one too few.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
by guayzimi on Mar 28, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I know of at least two friends who had USC in the Final Four
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I heard on a radio newscast
that it was 193 people (which seemed much too high), I think I believe the 2 more.
by ArkansasTravs on Mar 28, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
i have 61 points and i am in second place in the tourney i entered
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
so...
with the weird off day friday do we bring back carp for the tuesday game and save k-mac for the day game on wednesday?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 28, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions
i think i heard somewhere that was the plan
i have tickets to that tuesday game so i’d like to know as well.
Tony Rasmus at it again
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
do us all a favor, papa raz,
and SHUT THE HELL UP
EH #2
FIRE JOHN MOZELIAK.
by zoomzoomj88 on Mar 28, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn't really say bad
It’s just kind of cool
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
i just think that papa raz is a distraction
and colby has already had enough issues with TLR…
EH #2
FIRE JOHN MOZELIAK.
by zoomzoomj88 on Mar 28, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Colby and Tony read msnbc.com?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
colby reads?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Oh yeah and it looks, with 99% certainty, that I will be taking my talents to Kansas City
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Well not for baseball
But thanks!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
sellout.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 28, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Internship?
Are they gonna pay you?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Yes and no
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Ho[pe it works out for you.
Are you going to live in SGF, or move to KC?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'll need to move to KC and pick up a part time job to pay for the new apartment
My parents will cover the rest of my rent in Springfield, I’m guessing, but I still need to find a new place there
Thought we haven’t really discussed when I would start, so it might be after the wedding.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
You might laugh,
but there’s decent money in delivering pizzas.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
and you'd have evening hours.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
this is true
in a decent area in a big city, you can average $10-15/hr
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
Oh I'm definitely not opposed to the idea
But I have some friends who are waitresses in a pretty nice restaurant, so I’m going to see if they can hook me up first
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
how sporting of you.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Mar 28, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Quite.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Nope, Sporting KC
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Congrats.
and good luck. I live in KC (east side of town, Jackson County) – any questions, let me know.
What is your address?
Also, what are you wearing right now?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I've heard that KC is actually kind of cool
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Kansas City
I enjoy going up there now and then.
It’s a neat place to visit with some really nice museums, some damn good food, and nice people too.
If you’re into mediocre baseball teams at least theirs plays in a fairly nice park.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
They're building a brand new soccer stadium for me to work in, too!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
How thoughtful of them!
Mysterui is coming…we better build him a good office!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
by ClemsonGirl on Mar 28, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
for me to poop on!
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Mar 28, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Why you--!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
it's funny because you have to rec it
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Fuck
You’re right
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
sounds awesome.
I expect multiple MLS Cups and Concacaf Champions League finals appearances
"I'm sorry. I can't hear you over the deafening sound of my own awesomeness."
We are #13 in Fangraphs' terrible organizational rankings
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2011-organizational-rankings-13-st-louis-cardinals/
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
That was not very good at all.
If I’m not mistaken, Skip Schumaker is no longer an arbitration-eligible player. But that’s not why the article is not good. It offers virtually no analysis and just asks a bunch of questions.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
He had 2 years bought out, still has one after this year, I believe
But like tom s said, for a site that does so well with objective analysis, their organizational rankings are so subjective and terrible that it undermines the point of the site
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
This could be fun.
We should really do something like this for next offseason, but create a formula. What factors could we use? It’s going to inherently be subjective, in some sense. We could probably look at the Pythag records, average age of MLB players, salary value, financial flexibility, minor-league production (how to do that would be fun to hash out)…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The 2009 ranking is just brutal...
RedSox, Rays, Yanks, 1-3. That’s easy enough. But then there’s the Indians, Mets, Brewers, Cubs, Braves, D-Backs, and Angels 4-10.
Six of those seven teams are completely and utterly adrift two years after being “top 10” organizations. I suppose the Brewers aren’t COMPLETELY adrift – they made a rational bet to go for it – but they aren’t likely to win this year or any time soon either.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
They're always behind the curve..
we were 21st, then we won the division, then we were 10th and we stunk.
The Reds were 20th, they won, now they’re top 12.
Colorado was 23rd, they made the playoffs, they shot up to 7th, they bombed.
The Giants were 23rd, they won the WS, now they’re top 12.
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
how the hell are the angels ranked above us? the angels have slowly become terrible, they have a poor farm, and as for their front office, they signed
off on the worst trade of the offseason. the only advantage they have is money, which is tied up in paying way too much money to vernon wells.
god, that is a terrible series.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Poor farm? POOR FARM YOU SAY???
They have Mike Trout! The most talked about prospect of the last several months! Everyone knows that online chatter, due to the dark magical syntax of the internet, imbues baseball prospects with power. This power is so great that he alone makes their farm system infinitely superior to ours.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Trout is pretty good.
He might be good enough if we didn’t have First Round Pick Pete Kozma. Only we have him.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Crap, I just got lemon juice into this paper cut and now you mention Pete Kozma.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Mmmmm... paper cuts.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
last season was a nightmare
I’m surprised they actually finished as well as they did
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2011 1:16 PM EDT reply actions
royals released pedro feliz
PLEASE tell me the cards aren’t going to be tempted to sign him.
EH #2
FIRE JOHN MOZELIAK.
We're going to go through this
every time a gritty Proven Veteran™ is released.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Mar 28, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The dark humor we come up with to deal with the stress will be great though.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'll start this discussion then leave for class
Who do you think the last 2 roster spots go to?
It seems that Batista is a go, so that leaves Salas and Augenstein to battle it out for the last spot in the pen.
On the bench, has Craig secured his spot yet (he should have)? Will it be Dirty Dan or the Infection taking the last spot?
Personally, I’d be OK with either of the pitchers. And, for the bench, does anyone have to ask who VEB prefers?
Has Wainwright been moved to the 60-day DL yet?
I thought he had to be moved to make room for Batista or Stavinoha. If not, then there is another spot.
It should be Descalso though.
My sources are bigger than your sources.
Twitter
(Crap, clumsy hands)
I was going to say I sure hope the need for a roster move would preclude “Nick the Stick” going north with the team but this is TLR we’re talking about.
by ArkansasTravs on Mar 28, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's review:
OF – Holliday, Rasmus, Berkman, Jay, Craig.
IF – Freese, Theriot, Schumaker, Pujols, Greene.
Descalso (Punto when healthy) is the 2nd IF backup. Stavinoha would be the 6th OF.
My sources are bigger than your sources.
Twitter
Yea, I know,
there’s no logical reason to worry about him. But, he’s still in camp and then you get Tony bringing up the old “enough at-bats” concern with Craig in this and I can’t help but worry.
by ArkansasTravs on Mar 28, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Just saw that
after I posted the above. Great news.
by ArkansasTravs on Mar 28, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Was this noted:
03/25/11 Amaury Cazana loaned to Petroleros de Minatitlan from St. Louis Cardinals.
Also note the date sequence of the transactions. Cazana!
My sources are bigger than your sources.
Twitter
Seats in section 146 for $40 for Saturday? I'll take it!
Thanks Mrs. Scoot! Oh, and thank you StubHub
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Boog was starting anyways
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Better believe
that LaRussa already has told Mozeliak to go get him.
Would Josh Wilson be any worse than Theriot, though?
… now they’ve got me doing it! No moar Proven Veterans™!
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Mar 28, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you guys thinking about Jack Wilson?
Because Josh Wilson is a totally different player.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, I think thats what is happening too
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Know your Seattle Wilsons:

No longer a Mariner.

Still a Mariner.

Not a Wilson.
My sources are bigger than your sources.
Twitter
by TBender on Mar 28, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Is it just me?
Or does John Wilson sort of look like the love child of Boog and Jack Wilson? Kind of scary.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
(josh)
and yes, those mugshots bare a fair resemblance
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I keep trying to compare the three of them
But I get distracted by how goofy looking Jack Wilson is.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Now look at Wilson
Now back at Cox
Now they are both… still goofy looking!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Damn
I’d hate to get cut and then handed a check for $179k. That would really bite.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
sweet
cards sign wilson to replace punto?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
dgoold: Salas and Stavinoha sent out. #cardinals roster set at 25. Augenstein on.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Mar 28, 2011 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Hallelujah
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Mar 28, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Salas could have made it...
BUT NO INFECTION. OH SWEET JESUS THERE IS A GOD.
I AM SO HAPPY.
you're
augenstein over salas
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
is it augen-steen or augen-stine?
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
Depends,
was his grandfather infamous for creating mutant relief pitchers that scared the townspeople?
by ArkansasTravs on Mar 28, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mel Brooks quotes lead to eternal happiness
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Mar 28, 2011 9:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dangit
I know you guys are reccing for Stav, but I think it bares mentioning we already knew he wasn’t making roster. Meanwhile I think Salas got shafted, but this is better than last year’s promotions I guess..
"And a boring game for boring people. Did you ever watch golf on television? It's like watching flies FUCK. Think of the intellect it must take to draw pleasure from this activity: hitting a ball with a crooked stick and then WALKING AFTER IT" -George Carlin
by stlcardsfan4 on Mar 28, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
fourstick and VEP should start a doubleact
it would be the greatest thing since Laurel and Hardy invented sliced bread.
you're
by Aranathor on Mar 28, 2011 6:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A fourstick-VEP argument means Opening Day is just around the corner!
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Mar 28, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Or that it's a monday
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Like the first robins of spring.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Or like the first hanging curveball
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
best headline of the week
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
But seriously their lineup is terrible
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Mariners will win the west.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Mar 29, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
viva el league draft is tonight
reminder
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2011 7:24 PM EDT reply actions
The draft room is open.
Get yo’ sorry butts into the draft room.
Boog woulda.
by The Continental on Mar 28, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Does anyone know what number
Batista will be wearing? I’ve got Laird with #13, Punto with #8, Craig now with #21, Descalso with #33 and Augenstein with #65. Are these correct?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Mar 28, 2011 7:25 PM EDT reply actions
And Tallet with #56.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Mar 28, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
44
Leach confirmed.

"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
NOOOOOOOO!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Mar 28, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Big Randy Winn fan?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Mar 28, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not at all.
Although 9 years ago I thought he was decent. Saw that the Orioles let him go today. No, I just like the number 4, hence 44, and I don’t like the way players with that number have played recently for this team (Winn, and ostensibly, Batista).
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Mar 28, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Izzy was good a couple of times.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of fang are Asian." -Mike Shannon
The ump is explaining his latest review of Batista's short story collection in person because he regrets that Miguel was upset about it.
“Listen Miguel, don’t get me wrong. What you’re doing for the baseball-literary world is really important. I’ve been one of your boosters for a long time. But this latest publication was lacking in narrative focus and some of the stuff in the middle of it just seemed like you were ripping off Hemingway, specifically Hills Like White Elephants, Indian Camp, and Che Ti Dice La Patria?… oh, and no offense, but I said you were not a genius because you aren’t. Now suck it up and play ball.”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Mar 28, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
batista: "man, you're just mad because no one will publish your battlestar galactica fanfic."
ump: " . . . "
ump: “okay, you’re outta here!”
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Mar 28, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That's no ump...
That’s Angel Hernandez. There’s a difference.
My name's not Richie. My name is Dick. Dick Allen.
by Javier25 on Mar 28, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Is it really?
I never really knew what Angel Hernandez looked like. I guess I just tried to know as little about him as possible.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Worst ump of all time, except he's
Tied with Brocklander for that title.
My name's not Richie. My name is Dick. Dick Allen.
is it possible to do flim's proxy thing when streaming mlb.tv through ps3?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I don't think so?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
welp at least you answered me
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
man, women always take it the wrong way when
you tell them you’re going to cut out their breast implants.
….nice Barry, real nice
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Mar 28, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was under the impression that his college teammates had the same thoughts.
he was just increasingly aggressive, irritable, agitated, very impatient
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
the real question is if barry bonds got more irritable, how would you tell?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
indeed
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I do love me a good defense attorney....
Bell said she listed all the women she knew that Bonds was sleeping with: a model in New York, another woman in Las Vegas and “the stripper from Phoenix.”
“This is the guy who you described as having penile dysfunction,” Arguedas said. “That’s a lot of action.”
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Nice
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
the defense attorney went on to realize that he was suddenly unable to lie
ever since his young son made a birthday wish to that effect.
You mean Constantinople?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
by mysterui on Mar 28, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Putting on the Ritz?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I prefer TMBG.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Mar 28, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
too bad i was so busy at work
i missed a good one!
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
i probably would have gotten myself into trouble anyway
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
this makes me think
i wish i could see the number of keystrokes for each key on this keyboard since purchasing it
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
looks like you can get them.
i don’ think there’s one built in, though
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
by prophetjohn on Mar 28, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
guess: $80 a bottle
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
Yeah
If you’re going down to buy one, you let me know. I’ll wire you some money to have you pick me up a bottle or something.
I know nobody in Kentucky, and this is the first time I think I’ve regretted that.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i asked my friend in Lexington to pick me up 4 bottles, if he does, i'll save one for you
i don’t think i can get down there before they sell out, otherwise i’d just go get them myself
Balls
Just let me know
I have a nice collection of single batch bourbon and rye that I’d like to add this bottle to. We’ll figure out a way to exchange information.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Am I the only person outside of this blog who thinks Rasmus is going to have a big year?
I’m getting him so late in drafts it’s crazy. Are we so biased about him here that I’m over inflating his worth?
I’ve seen him rated no higher than the 26th best outfielder and as low at 50th on some cheat sheets.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 28, 2011 10:20 PM EDT reply actions
outside of this blog, i also think rasmus will have a big year
Sometimes I'm naked and thank god, sometimes you're naked. Well, hellooooo...
twatter
by prophetjohn on Mar 28, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
inside of a blog, there's too much electromagnetic radiation to survive.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Mar 28, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
The Bonds subthread is above.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
...i'm in the interstices...
canuhearme?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Mar 29, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
He's a keeper in our league, fwiw.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
He's no Juan Pierre
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
NINETEENMILLION!!!!!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Cobly will contend for the MVP, but lose out to Howard who will hit 59 HRs while batting .225
you heard it here first
Balls
I mean he has a light of blights as a player
Makes errors on defense, strikeouts out a lot, definitely a dead pull hitter.
But I think that anyone who actually watches him play should be able to see the massive potential there. Anyone who can go on a month long stretch with a .400+ ISO and a 20%+ walk rate obviously has a lot of talent. Few players could sustain that, even for a ~90 plate appearances.
Plus, it’s not like he’s failed in the bigs so far. He had a freaking .850 OPS last year. Anyone who doesn’t think Rasmus has the potential to be one of the best players in baseball over the next couple of years is nuts.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Finally something we totally agree on:
Anyone who doesn’t think Rasmus has the potential to be one of the best players in baseball over the next couple of years is nuts.
Can’t say it much better than that.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Fantasy worth != Actual Baseball Worth
He’ll be worth a lot to the Cardinals because he is a 10 run defensive CF and his OBP is good due to his walk rate being 12% or higher. But if you’re drafting him in fantasy:
- He doesn’t hit for high average
- He’s not a good candidate to hit 30 HR
- Most fantasy baseball rules don’t position outfielders, so his ability to play CF is irrelevant to his overall value
- He’s not going to steal 20+ bases.
- It’s hard to tell whether he’s going to score any runs or drive any in, because we don’t know where he’s going to hit in the lineup consistently, but we know it isn’t going to be 3rd or 4th, which are the RBI spots, and it’s not likely to be 1st, which is the high run scoring spot.
He could have a breakout year and be worth 6 WAR or something….and still not be worth as much in fantasy baseball as someone like Michael Bourn, who will steal 60 bases and score 100 runs while hitting around .290 or something.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
That said
In my 25-man-minor-league roster keeper league, I have Rasmus, Jay Bruce, Bryce Harper, and Eric Hosmer and I get more offers for Rasmus than any of the other three combined. But we have a CF position you have to fill (and the player has to have played at least 20 games there the previous year), which diminished Bruce’s value a couple years ago when he moved over, and we use OPS instead of BA, so Rasmus has more value than he normally would in standard 5X5 roto.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Rasmus
I was actually thinking .270/.360/.510, 28-30 homers, 100ish runs (assuming he hits second all year) and 70 – 80 RBIs.
The leagues I’m in also use OPS as a stat instead of BA and have individual outfield positions.
I understand his value is higher in the leagues I’m in than in a standard league but even in a standard league I see him as being better than the 26th best outfielder in baseball.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 29, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
Looking at this, he’s listed 25th in terms of OF WAR for 2010. Now that’s not based on 5X5 categories, but a good portion of the players ahead of him also steal bases, which he really doesn’t do and won’t do under LaRussa. I do think he’s a very good bet to be better than he was last year, but I fantasy outfielders are a very deep bunch.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Sorry, I'll zip up my pants
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
someone recced
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 28, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh crap.
Now I have to follow it.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
by ClemsonGirl on Mar 29, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
haha
i like how it’s asking for good vegan restaurants
by YesWeOquendo on Mar 29, 2011 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
for the better?
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 29, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
But you live in Los Angeles
EXACTLY
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Mar 29, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Help!! Cuonzo Martin
Should I be happy that my school hire him as their basketball coach?
My name's not Richie. My name is Dick. Dick Allen.
Probably, yes
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Why didn't Missouri?
If he’s the real deal, why didn’t Mizzou jump on him??
My name's not Richie. My name is Dick. Dick Allen.
Because Tenn probably started their coach search earlier
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Hmm...they did start their search EARLIER.
I was hoping they performed their coaching search BETTER, and got him before Mizzou.
My name's not Richie. My name is Dick. Dick Allen.
I'm surprised they were able to lure someone even as good as him
No players returning + impending NCAA sanctions + very popular former coach to follow = tough job for anyone
Auburn Tigers - 2010 National Champions, 2011 Fulmer Cup Champions
by jd is legend on Mar 29, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Depends on what kind of basketball you like
If you liked the run-n-gun Bruce Pearl, you’re going to have a string dislike for Cuonzo Martin.
Did you know he was Robin to “Big Dog” Glenn Robinson’s Batman 20 some years ago at Purdue?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
And *Omaha* is the sweetest town in the Central Time Zone
Situated so that its still daylight at 9:00 p.m. in the summer…lots of time to do daytime stuff.
My name's not Richie. My name is Dick. Dick Allen.
I hear great things about Omaha
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
If you really like baseball
Not too much better than sitting in Rosenblatt watching the CWS, eating a Hebrew Nation Hot Dog and pounding that Budweiser
My name's not Richie. My name is Dick. Dick Allen.
I could do that.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Except for the Budweiser part.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Uh, by
Letting others doubt me. Its much less painful
My name's not Richie. My name is Dick. Dick Allen.
You must be one happy bastard then.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
TWHS
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
y'all need to stop doubting me
when i say there’s mountain lion’s in Missouri, i mean there are f’ing mountain lion’s in Missouri!
Balls
well there didn't use to be many armadillos in MO
but they started moving up there more and more. it was like one year in the 90s all the sudden there was a ton of ’em
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 29, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I wrote a poem about armadillos' migration North.
I’m in St Louis for the week, otherwise I’d post it.
If it's a meme, or looks like it might be a meme, I do not get it.
Ever been to west Texas?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, where do you think all those armadilloes came from?
They’re like turtles out there.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably, everything else does.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Armadillos are Texas's version of Doritos
Crunch all you want. They’ll make more.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 29, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
We have them in Colorado, also
but then, we have MOUNTAINS. In fact, saw one a couple of months ago as we were driving home from my bro-in-law’s house, who lives in the foothills. First one I’ve seen in the wild.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Mar 29, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
there was a discussion last year here where people didn't believe me
i’ve heard more than i’ve seen, but they are down there
Balls
Yeah
The magazine the Missouri Conservation department puts out had an article on them.
http://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2011/03/update-mountain-lions-missouri
Oh hell, we've got them in So. IL, too.
You just can’t get the DNR to admit it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
They used to not admit there were coyotes in southern Illinois either.
My sources are bigger than your sources.
Twitter
late night VEB in session?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 12:35 AM EDT reply actions
I now call this meeting to order
.jpg)
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
oitsu
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
HFS
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
a "return to form"
that has been long-awaited but will never come to fruition
by LandSickness on Mar 29, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
how you been?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
good good
busy, stressed, jubilant, excited…
but mostly good
by LandSickness on Mar 29, 2011 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
good. getting married yet? plans for the summer?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
not yet, my friend
moving back to st. louis. hopefully getting a job. going to beaucoup cardinals games
by LandSickness on Mar 29, 2011 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, indeed.
That’s been my plan all along. Maybe 8 years or so.
by LandSickness on Mar 29, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
it's the most important decision of your life
you better be damn sure you can & want to live with the consequences, both the good & the bad
Balls
Y'all are doing it wrong
Marriage is all about pie and sandwiches and your wife never leaving the kitchen.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 29, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Showering?
You young’uns and showering multiple times a year. Just don’t see how that’s healthy.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 30, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
sounds like me.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
except i'm wayyy further away from getting married.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
and a few other things, probz
You never know, fang. Maybe that girl will sneak up on you and surprise you.
by LandSickness on Mar 29, 2011 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
shut up.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
i've heard that a lot lately.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I prefer bourbon.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
we going to a game this summer?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
If ya want
and we both have the funding
by LandSickness on Mar 29, 2011 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
$$$ no issue with this homeboy.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
um...we're still drafting?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 12:48 AM EDT reply actions
FUCK.
three autodrafts, three killer bullpens, NO STARTING PITCHING
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
i'll work my magic.
if i’ve got extra relief i’ll flip it.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah...
it happens.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Your team is done.
Most everyone else is finishing up.
Boog woulda.
by The Continental on Mar 29, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
doin this draft thing still
can’t wait for thursday!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 29, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Very exciting stuff
Can’t wait to get back to St. Louis and experience it firsthand again
by LandSickness on Mar 29, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
not me.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Still faster than the CBS league!
Boog woulda.
by The Continental on Mar 29, 2011 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
16 teams, 26 man rosters.
That’s a lot of players.
Boog woulda.
by The Continental on Mar 29, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually ended up liking my team despite spending all my money really fast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 29, 2011 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't have my head wrapped around how real stats translate to fantasy yet.
But my team is.. intriguing. And kinda top-heavy.
Boog woulda.
by The Continental on Mar 29, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
1 pick every 24 hours....
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Heh. I put them in my queue before I left for the night. $1 wonder! Not sure how long he'll last.
I’m already dropping Jay.
I got pretty much exactly the team I wanted. Now I’ll just have to see him my analysis of the categories you chose is correct. WTF were people doing spending $10-$12 on closers?! THERE ISN’T A SAVES CATEGORY!
If it's a meme, or looks like it might be a meme, I do not get it.
i seriously didn't draft a catcher? seriously?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:24 AM EDT reply actions
just starting naming relievers
and you’ll be off to a good start
by adiueordie on Mar 29, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
heh
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
HOLY MOTHERFUCKER MY BULLPEN
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:25 AM EDT reply actions
RP
Joakim Soria
(KC – RP)
97% 65.2 13 4 16 3 9.73 66 .263 3 0 3
RP
Heath Bell
(SD – RP)
97% 70.0 15 1 28 4 11.06 67 .296 0 0 3
RP
Francisco Rodríguez
(NYM – RP)
94% 57.1 14 3 21 1 10.52 53 .288 6 0 5
RP
Brad Lidge
(Phi – RP)
74% 45.2 15 5 24 2 10.25 50 .295 2 0 5
RP
José Valverde
(Det – RP)
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 29, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
no c
loney, 1b
beckman, 2b
young, 3b
reyes, ss
escobar, if
pierre, lf
young, cf
markakis, rf
elssbury, of
abreu, of
wells, b
tabata, b
swisher, b
hanson, sp
bucholz, sp
billingsley, sp
volquez, sp
kennedy, sp
soria, rp
bell, rp
f rodriguez, rp
lidge, rp
valverde, rp
putz, rp
broxton, rp
cordero, rp
LOLZ
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:28 AM EDT reply actions
who wants a closer?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 29, 2011 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
no saves category
closers don’t have much value. i don’t have any closers, just relievers with high k/9
especially when you factor in they will be using that service to raise prices
i think they might actually only draw around 3-3.2 million, especially if they aren’t any good. and GOB’s help them if they suck, no one will come watch that
Balls
You don't remember the early nineties?
The few games I went to were packed, even as bad as they were.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions
i remember them, every game i was at was packed
but i was only there usually on holiday weekends, i can’t speak for week night games
Balls
Where in New Orleans do you go to college?
My godmother has a food truck business there – just a few minutes away from Loyola.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 29, 2011 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Have you heard of a fork on the road?
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 29, 2011 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
no, i haven't
where should i look for it
by LandSickness on Mar 29, 2011 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Ever seen the Muppet Movie?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I have never seen A movie
much less the Muppet Movie
by LandSickness on Mar 29, 2011 3:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I love that movie.
I can sit and laugh my ass off every time. There’s a scene in there about taking the fork in the road.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions
A bear in his natural habitat... The Studebaker!
If it's a meme, or looks like it might be a meme, I do not get it.
Yep
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
So what's this Sporting goods job?
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 29, 2011 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Basically a sabermetrics intern
But, y’know, for soccer
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
That oughta be different.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions
It's exciting
New frontier, new city…
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
Star Trek for the sabermetric crowd, eh?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I suppose so
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
there are soo many great places to eat in KC
i’m jealous, plus they’ve totally redone Kauffman Stadium. i hear its really nice
Balls
Gates BBQ
If you want to get your own spices and such for cooking you have to check out Planters.
by WizardofOz1982 on Mar 29, 2011 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I are bored
Any news with jobs, woman?
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 29, 2011 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
i hope to find out later today if i have a real chance at Lexus
and women continue to mess with me, at least one does. i’ve pretty much decided to be a douchebag & a jerk to them now. it’s what they really want so i might as well give it to them
Balls
is that really something you can just turn on?
like flip a switch? i bet it’s hard work being a douch
by YesWeOquendo on Mar 29, 2011 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Naw, just don't wash your clothes
Or shave. And mumble a lot and call women “girl”.
Skip Schumaker is a scapegoat
by vivaelpujols on Mar 29, 2011 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions
that's just lazy. not unlike you're characterization of dbags
by YesWeOquendo on Mar 29, 2011 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought that was a hipster?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Anytime I tried that, it blew up on me.
Then I just got to a point where I said fuck it. I just stopped paying any attention to them as females, they were just people with boobs. It made it much easier to deal with. Actually had more of them paying attention to me when I was completely indifferent.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions
i doubt your sincerity
how do you “stop paying attention to them as females” when you summarize them as people with boobs?
conundrum…
by YesWeOquendo on Mar 29, 2011 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
It takes practice.
I didn’t say it was easy, just easier than putting yourself thru the bullshit. I guess I should’ve pointed out that I did this with the locals. Around that time I started online dating. It was easier since it wasn’t so much in your face. Then I met my wife to be and it’s been downhill from there.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah but do online females even have boobs to ignore?
/off to research
by YesWeOquendo on Mar 29, 2011 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions
depends on how good your imagination is.
That was part of the beauty of it. It didn’t really matter that much. I got to know them so much better before I ever met them. Only one turned out to be a nutcase. Don’t get me wrong, she was incredible looking and the sex was phenomenal when we finally did meet. But she was just straight up fucking nuts.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I was also around 32 or 33 at this time.
Had been chasing women for several years with minimal success beyond one-nighters. That gets old after a while. I had more interesting adventures in on-line dating than I ever had the regular old way. Plus I was meeting women that I hadn’t known for 20-30 years so there were no pre-conceived notions.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Ugh
I think my computer just died on me. Welp, it was good 4 years
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
and yet you're still posting.
That’s a helluva computer.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah I got on my fiancee's
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Twitter | Gas House Graphs
I was just wondering how we could deal with zombie computers.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Dedication
You have it in spades
by LandSickness on Mar 29, 2011 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Night, kids.
This old man’s insomnia is finally wearing off.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Mar 29, 2011 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions

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