The End of an Era: Pujols to Sign with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
by bgh on Dec 8, 2011 10:23 AM EST
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The all-encompassing madness that has been Albert Pujols's venture into free agency has apparently come to an end. Tim Brown of Yahoo! has tweeted that Pujols decided this morning to sign with the Angels. Brown states that the contract is ten years in length, includes a full no-trade clause, and is for between $250 and $260 million. Buster Olney of ESPN has confirmed Brown's report.
And so ends one of the greatest eras in the rich history of the St. Louis Cardinals: The Pujols Era. Pujols burst onto the scene in 2001 and put up MVP-like numbers in winning the Rookie of the Year Award and kept on putting up MVP numbers for eleven seasons. Pujols won three MVP awards for the Cardinals and perhaps should have won more. Take a moment and let his stats over the last eleven years sink in:
|
G |
PA |
H |
R |
HR |
RBI |
BA |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
wOBA |
WAR |
|
1705 |
7433 |
2073 |
1291 |
445 |
1291 |
.328 |
.420 |
.617 |
1.037 |
.430 |
87.8 |
Pujols had a historically unprecedented beginning to a baseball career. If his career were to end today, he would be a Hall-of-Famer. His Cardinals career has ended on this December 8, 2011, and he is undeniably one of the greatest to ever wear The Birds On The Bat. Here are how his numbers rank all-time in Cardinals history:
|
Player |
Games |
Player |
Hits |
Player |
Home Runs |
||||
|
Musial |
3026 |
Musial |
3630 |
Musial |
475 |
||||
|
Brock |
2289 |
Brock |
2713 |
Pujols |
445 |
||||
|
O. Smith |
1990 |
Hornsby |
2110 |
Boyer |
255 |
||||
|
Slaughter |
1820 |
Pujols |
2073 |
Edmonds |
241 |
||||
|
Schoendienst |
1795 |
Slaughter |
2064 |
Lankford |
228 |
||||
|
Flood |
1738 |
Schoendienst |
1980 |
McGwire |
220 |
||||
|
Pujols |
1705 |
O. Smith |
1944 |
Hornsby |
193 |
||||
|
Boyer |
1667 |
Boyer |
1855 |
Bottomley |
181 |
||||
|
McGee |
1661 |
Flood |
1853 |
Simmons |
172 |
||||
|
Hornsby |
1580 |
Bottomley |
1727 |
Mize |
158 |
||||
|
Player |
BA |
Player |
OBP |
Player |
SLG |
||||
|
Hornsby |
.359 |
McGwire |
.427 |
McGwire |
.683 |
||||
|
O’Neill |
.343 |
Hornsby |
.427 |
Pujols |
.617 |
||||
|
Mize |
.336 |
Pujols |
.420 |
Mize |
.600 |
||||
|
Medwck |
.335 |
Mize |
.419 |
Hornsby |
.568 |
||||
|
Musial |
.331 |
Musial |
.417 |
Hafey |
.568 |
||||
|
Pujols |
.328 |
Cunningham |
.413 |
Musial |
.559 |
||||
|
Hafey |
.326 |
O’Neill |
.406 |
Edmonds |
.555 |
||||
|
Bottomley |
.325 |
Huggins |
.402 |
Medwick |
.545 |
||||
|
Frisch |
.312 |
Blades |
.395 |
Bottomley |
.537 |
||||
|
Watkins |
.309 |
Edmonds |
.393 |
Collins |
.517 |
||||
St. Louis Cardinals fans were witnesses to the first half of what could be one of the greatest careers in the game's history, an era that included two World Series chamiopnships and a National League pennant. Pujols is undoubtedly one of the all-time great Cardinals but he will never be The Greatest Cardinal Of Them All. That distinction will forever belong to The Man.
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See ya, Albert!
Thanks for not saddling the Cards with your contract (and ego) for the next 10 years. Enjoy being a DH and all that.
Thanks for everything.
I’m so freaking glad this is over with.
by Beelzebubba on Dec 8, 2011 10:26 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
And look at the belly on that picture.
That ain’t gettin’ any smaller over the next 10 years.
If I had a tagline, this would be it.
by lancelotlink on Dec 8, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
albert is the only player with an ego...
250 million is a lot more than 200 million.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
im confussed
today I hear we only offered 200mil
(only?)
but I had heard we upped it to around 220?
which is right?
That was too much money, too many years.
I’d been in the camp that the 10/220 proposal was fine, but that was pushing it. Good for Mozeliak for holding out.
And good for Pujols for getting his deal. I wish him all the best in the future, and thanks for being fucking awesome for eleven years as a Cardinal.
by Pegasus on Dec 8, 2011 10:26 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
You know what, let's fight about it.
Seems like exactly what VEB needs today: a huge fight about whether we are mad, or should be mad.
On second thought no, I’m not going to do that.
yeah, I'm glad he ended up in Anaheim instead of Miami
it’s the AL, they have fans, the uniforms are better (/goeswithoutsaying)
by peach concrete on Dec 8, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
I believe the correct phrasing is
so long, and thanks for not signing with the fish
by brackenthebox on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 16 recs
I really appreciate...
…green/rec’d Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy reference.
Reminds me one of the many reasons I like this sie.
I once shot a man just to see him die...then I got distracted and missed it.
Moreno will actually do for Pujols
What Loria said he would do for Pujols
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 8, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks, Albert!
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 8, 2011 10:27 AM EST reply actions 11 recs
It'd be awesome if....
….we offered Prince a 6/$180M contract.
by Beelzebubba on Dec 8, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
5/125
As fourstick mentioned in the other thread. Just to mess with Pujols.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
How about 3 years 90 mill?
That would really miss with AP, by making Fielder the highest paid player.
ummmm....no.
just no.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 8, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Well I guess pujols was right, he’s not “el hombre” because Stan wouldn’t do this.
That said thank god we didn’t spend that much
And in a way good for him he got paid and is in a good situation
Get healthy soon Mr. Craig
by jealousblues on Dec 8, 2011 10:29 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Stan never got a chance to.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 8, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
Many players have taken a paycut to play for this team.
I don’t fault the ones who didn’t for not, but you know who the guys who wanted to be here were by their actions.
by jealousblues on Dec 8, 2011 10:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I am not talking about those guys (also none of those guys are Albert Pujols who is one of the greatest of all time and has the real-world opportunity to earn way, way more than any of those guys)
I am talking about Stan Musial, the guy who played baseball starting in the 1940’s when America was a dramatically different country than it is now, and when nobody had heard of Curt Flood, and teams basically owned you still. It’s an unfair comparison.
Mark McGwire spoiled us.
He took less to stay in St. Louis and then retired to spare the team from paying his salary after he could no longer play due to a knee injury.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Hey
Jimmy Baseball did at LEAST as much as McGwire. He got paid less than he could have, deferred all kinds of money, and hell, he even recruited free agents!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I shouldn't have left Edmonds out.
Edmonds contributed to the spoiling of Cardinals fans. After McGwire and Edmonds, we came to expect this type of behavior.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
True
And also, lots of people decided he was an asshole after all because he did something bad (steroids) that tons of other people also did and everybody kind of just looked the other way while it was happening.
(I don’t think Mark McGwire is an asshole or anything, I think he’s great. I’m just trying to add that peoples’ perceptions can be pretty inconsistent)
Which players?
And do their cumulative pay cuts add up to the $30-60 million extra that Pujols left for?
though to be fair, Stan did ask for, and received, a substantial pay cut
when he didn’t think his numbers justified his paycheck.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
If I'm not mistaken, it's never been proven that he requested the pay cut.
We do know that he requested multiple raises that kept him amongst if not the highest-paid player in baseball.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Stan most certainly would've done this if he hadn't...
been own in perpetuity by the Cardinals
Sign Roy O
Stan ASKED FOR A PAY CUT
of course he would never leave just for money. Not that i’m saying Pujols is a terrible person for doing it, just saying that Stan wouldn’t have done it, even if he had the chance.
"I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order. Like they should be."
The players back then were fools...
They are entitled to a fair share of the revenues their work produces, just as all workers are.
Sign Roy O
This reminds me of a very good book about the 1950s entitled
“The Way Things Never Were.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 8, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He accepted a pay cut when he was 40 years old.
Because he was playing like he was 40, and knew it.
The story that he requested it has never been confirmed. What IS known is that several times during his career Musial requested raises, and was often the highest-paid player in baseball.
So, anyway.
And probably regrets it now, as he still has to sign hundreds of autographs a day
that he sells to pay for his, um, life.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't
WHY DOES MONEY HAVE TO BE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING?
I really get tired of this narrative. As if Stan Musial would have a market for those autographs if he hadn’t been a lifetime Cardinal? He was one of the highest paid if not THE highest paid player in the game for most of his career.
I realize how unfair things were back then for players. Now I’m afraid that things may have swung so far in the other direction that it simply can’t continue for the long haul and that, at some point, taxpayers are going to become tired of paying to subsidize billionaires paying millionaires to play a child’s game while raking in millions of dollars in profits.
All that said, can we stop casting Stan Musial as a victim? Because I’m pretty sure Stan Musial would never play the victim. Ever. I’m not sure he would regret a single thing about his career. So let’s stop doing it for him, mmmkay?
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
why does money have to be the most important thing?
bc we live in a society where people are camping out in the cold and fighting each other to get free waffle makers.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Stan made a shitload of money
in the restaurant/hotel/resort bizness after his retirement.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 8, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Again, let's not let facts get in the way of a good narrative or anything.
by mattybobo on Dec 8, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
\mm/
by ducttape16 on Dec 8, 2011 11:50 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
wait, what's wrong with Craig?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
out till
May with some screws in his kneecap in a surgery done just before Thanksgiving.
Because Matheny
4 to 6 months from mid-November...
means mid-May at the worst…could be mid-March still.
"Progress always involves risk; you can't steal second base and keep your foot on first base." - Frederick Wilcox
is that because of that collision with the wall in RF where he fractured it?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Think so, yeah
I guess it was something that needed to be done eventually but was OK for a while so he could finish 2011? Or maybe it was discovered recently that he needed more work after all, I dunno.
Also, I think his getting married delayed the surgery too.
yeah, didn't do more because playoffs.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Yeah.
Scoot said that it said a lot about Craig that he was able to play despite having problems and that the injury probably wasn’t healing properly so they inserted the screws to make the knee more stable.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
"got married"
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 8, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
it took me several days to work that out.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
mostly because of the reserve clause
but still
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
\mm/
by ducttape16 on Dec 8, 2011 11:48 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Yeah, we need an OFer now....
perhaps a CF so Jay can go back to being a 4th OF.
by Ozzie Potter on Dec 8, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
beltran can play CF and RF, makes the most sense considering his power and being a switch hitter
2 year deal for beltran, keep yadi happy in the dugout speaking espanol with furcal :)
Good luck Al
You will be missed. I guess the best part is we will only see him like 1-2 times a year, and perhaps the WS. Oh wait, he’s going to Disneyland. Just regular season then.
Was that pick during the MLB phase?
He hasn’t had a full season at Double-A yet. Dig his walk rates, though.
VEB hipster
When did this happen?
And how did we get him, anybody know? I had never heard of this guy until today, but he looks a little interesting at least.
So he has to spend all of 2012 on the MLB roster?
Is he an astronaut?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 8, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, the rule is that we have to keep him on the major league roster if we keep him, right?
Or maybe we can negotiate with rule 5 guys at some point if they are OK with going to the minors? I can’t remember all of it.
He has to stay on the ML roster or the DL
He cannot be sent to AAA without working out a trade with the former team or returning him to the former team.
His statistical profile looks similar to a David DeJesus type of player
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
He really makes Schu expendable as a 5th OF.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 8, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that makes me wonder if the club plans on keeping Schumaker even as an outfielder
I don’t see the point, and I don’t see the intent based on their moves so far.
I hope this means no Theriot or Schumaker in 2012.
You two have gotten my hopes up.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Komatsu is a corner oufielder
Not likely to stay in CF. And not likely to have enough of a stick to play in the corner outfield either.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Wow...
I feel like I got dumped….
My stomach hurts.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
we did...
next season we’ll see Albert holding hands with his new dish in the mall… and we’ll hide in hallmark so Albert doesn’t see… or….. we just need a hotter…… younger gal to rub it in his face!! Then Jessica will know who’s better! who’s fault it was!!! Aahhhh!!! I mean Albert… Albert will know it who made the right decision. yeah.
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
by pattimagee on Dec 8, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
So many thoughts...
- Disappointed.
- Don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
- Wondering how long before his statue is either vandalized or removed from his restaurant. – Cannot help think that maybe there is a reason he stuck with his scuzzy agent, that there is something dark lurking in the heart of Albert.
- On the bright side, the Cardinals are not stuck with a contract that will hamstring the team for the next ten years.
- Time for the birdos to make some moves.
- And hey at least he didn’t switch teams on prime time TV.
- Based on conversations with the folks I know here in KC who either knew or currently him or his wife, I knew that he would sign for the highest money only. I was just hoping they were wrong.
I’m sure many will say who wouldn’t take 250 million and that doesn’t make him a bad guy for doing so, but I thought there was more to him that just money.
Sign me!
by arthropodtodd on Dec 8, 2011 10:31 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
In his defense...
if we were offering 9 years and $200M… that’s a 20% discount. Players don’t normally give 20% discounts. Jeter didn’t – he got a premium from the Yankees. ARod didn’t, Carp II didn’t…
Sign Roy O
there really is not defense really
it is really our (Fans in general) fault. We are the ones willing to shell out cash to buy tickets, and merchandise. Just tired of the greed. But not to sound like an occupy wall street type, but every time I go to Busch i come across at least 5 guys looking for money, meanwhile the average min salary is almost 500k now, more than police, firemen, military, most primary care physicians, teachers, people who have actually important jobs. every 60 seconds a kid dies of hunger in the world and a ballplayer rakes in 250 million?
Sign me!
by arthropodtodd on Dec 8, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
In a world where baseball is a billion-dollar industry, is where.
The players produce nearly all the value of that industry, and are entitled to every penny of it that they can squeeze out of the teams.
Blame the modern world...
production is through the roof creating vast revenues and the ability for individuals to buy huge amounts of entertainment to fill all the leisure time that’s been created.
Sign Roy O
That is who I blame
I mean I can live with it when I think about the game strictly as entertain, no different than the WWE or actors. But then I think about playing ball in the neighbor’s yard pretending to be Jack Clark or Willie McGee and I get annoyed that greed and money has ruined the sport. To make more money we have to have more Wild card teams, interleague play, etc.
Sign me!
by arthropodtodd on Dec 8, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
I do think we as a society will get a lot poorer over the next 50 years...
and I am really looking forward to that.
Sign Roy O
agree.
well not to the looking forward to it part…..
Sign me!
by arthropodtodd on Dec 8, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Life will be better in some ways and worse in other...
I worry about the breakdown of law and order and the problem of re-converting suburbia to farmland, but beyond that I think it will be a net positive in terms of happiness.
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 8, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I whole-heartedly agree with this.
Lefty Grove isn't interested in your pitch counts.
by mynameistyler on Dec 8, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know.
To a certain extent I agree with you — there’s something… shallower and less satisfying about rooting for a team when there’s complete roster turnover every ten years.
At the same time, has it really “ruined” the sport? The last day of the regular season this year was easily the greatest day of baseball in my lifetime. And that was because of the wild card system. And the Cardinals just won a World Series on the backs of players acquired through free agency, and the active trading system created spurred by free agency.
The game’s the same. I’m awfully tempted to say that it just got more fierce.
Expecting baseball to stay the same while the rest of the world changes dramatically just strikes me as unfair and unrealistic
It sucks. I love that certain people run restaurants that keep things traditional. It’s cool to see classic symphonies at concerts. Etc.
But the old days aren’t coming back in professional sports.
Baseball has far less roster turnover than the NFL.
The roster turnover is one of the reasons I’m not that big of an NFL fan these days.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
There it's driven by short careers and a pathetic union.
No guaranteed contracts my ass. And fans have the nerve to get pissy at players when they hold out.
I love football, but the business aspects of it drive me nuts. Plus ethically I’m starting to get the jitters re: head injuries.
Yeah, football makes me more and more uncomfortable
All professional sports require a certain amount of sacrificing your physical health for entertainment. But football really seems to be on the extreme end of that and I find myself wondering more and more what could possibly be done about it, or if it will get worse.
Less padding might help.
Seriously. Rugby players are far healthier than football players, and it’s because they aren’t encased in pads that make them feel invincible. Perversely, football players would tackle more safely if they didn’t feel so safe.
But really, I don’t know what can be done about the culture of a sport, and football culture is the real culprit.
Interesting points
And your thought about padding/rugby kind of cuts to the heart of the issue. It would take a pretty fundamental and radical change to truly alleviate the problem, barring near-miraculous health advances.
My idea would be to use helmets that are also padded on the outside
They wouldn’t look as good, or last as long, but if helmets were soft on the outside, I bet we’d see many fewer traumatic injuries.
And I should have added that baseball has what I feel is just the right amount of roster turnover.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
From a certain perspective, I agree.
One thing I love about baseball is the degree to which it can be intellectualized, and from that perspective I like how roster construction currently works. Nice combination of strategy and luck.
From a more emotional perspective, it sure would be nice to be able to have certain guys under team control forever, so that I could keep pretending that they care about and identify with the logo as much as I do.
Greed/monetary unfairness has ALWAYS been present in professional baseball
Quite frankly, I’ll take this era of baseball over any other. Players absolutely deserve to make as much money as they can.
Yes...
Look back at that Black Sox scandal and how badly underpaid all those players were, but at that time, with no free agency, they just had to take it and like it.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Rajah left for money too
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
So we are left to conclude that Albert Pujols is a klan member.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Sounds good
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
That said I wouldn’t doubt if Albert uses a significant part of this for charity
by jealousblues on Dec 8, 2011 10:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think he uses a large hunk of his past contract for his charity...
He seems to have a fundraiser every free weekend.
Sign me!
by arthropodtodd on Dec 8, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Hey Lozano was just taking the lead from Our Lord Jesus Christ (trademark?)...
…you know, associating with harlots and all that.
Laying with lions? Something about the good son?
I once shot a man just to see him die...then I got distracted and missed it.
Two things
1. Albert – Thanks for the great years and great memories. You’re one of the best in the game, and I hope you keep it up then go into the Hall with the Birds on the Bat.
2. Stan – You always have been, and likely always will be, the Man for the Cardinals. You’re still number 1 and no one will likely ever challenge you there. Thanks.
I disagree
Willie McGee will always be the Man for the Cardinals.
/Well at least to 10-year old self
by KD1 on Dec 8, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yep, #19 and a compensatory.
Woop-dee-doo!
by Ozzie Potter on Dec 8, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
The Angels
Give us their number 19 pick
by Cheeseballs on Dec 8, 2011 10:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
With no Lunhow
/the sky is falling
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Dec 8, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Because Luhnow was the only person in the department
and all the information was locked away in his brain.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
I'm worried about him hiring talent away from the Cardinals.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Behind Carlos Lee.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
I kind of am too
But it’s also not like Luhnow and whoever he might possibly lure to Houston are the only smart baseball people in the world. I’m ambivalent about the whole thing. Happy for the guy to get to be a GM because it seems like he did fantastic work for us. Sad that we don’t get him any longer and was kind of hoping he would continue to do what he had been doing with us. Gee, what does this remind me of…
hey, has anyone seen rui?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
holy shit i just found out about that too
been an eventful 8 hours, what?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Yeah, I'm just now finding out as I read this.
Annoyed more than anything.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Enjoy....
American League pitching…
The Cards at night, are big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas
I feel pretty good about this
We got the best player of the 2000s at a discount, and he was the driving force in taking us to the playoffs in 7 of his 10 years. We got him at his best. Thank you Albert for a great 10 years.
And now we’re free! Free from a handcuffing 10-year, $20+ million contract. We sold high, and now we can be buyers. Need to buy about 5-6 wins to match what Albert contributed in 2011, and that should be doable.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
by lightbulb on Dec 8, 2011 10:35 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Hello, Adam Wainwright!
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 8, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 13 recs
just what I was thinking
and rec’d
"I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order. Like they should be."
Oh yeah, that guy!
3 wins from Freese, maybe 2.5 from Craiggers, and we’re winning the division.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
Wainwright's
BR WAR in 2010: 5.9.
Albert’s BR WAR in 2011: 5.4.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Dec 8, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
I would not use BR WAR for pitchers.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
What kind of contract will AW fetch in 2014?
I guess that depends on his health, eh?
by Ozzie Potter on Dec 8, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
None because he'll already be signed to an extension
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Who's his agent?
Pretty sure it’d be smart to let him get to free agency, if I were the agent.
by Ozzie Potter on Dec 8, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Steve Hammond
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Yes, it most definitely does.
I’m sad but the black-and-white reality is that the Cardinals now stand a better chance to re-sign Yadi and extend Wainwright than had they signed Pujols. Our biggest problem now is the health of Allen Craig’s knee. Depending on where Fielder signs, the Cardinals are—even without Pujols—the NL Central favorites. And, as we all know, a team just had to make the postseason. After that, anything is possible.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I would say we're at least co-favorites for the NL Central
Prince isn’t going to be back in Milwaukee. I still think the Pirates are not that close to being able to take the division. The Astros are still pretty terrible still. The Cubs are still the Cubs and aren’t going to turn things around in one year. The Reds have Votto so I don’t see how they would sign Fielder.
Even if Fielder signs in our division and not with us, I don’t think it’ll make much of a difference in the standings.
Repeat 2011 performances...
are kind of necessary now, right? Maybe just Berk and Holliday, then AW will replace the leftover WAR gap…
by Ozzie Potter on Dec 8, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
The apparent over-performance of a lot of guys in 2011 does concern me, yeah...
However, Holliday will hopefully be more healthy and stay on the field more. He might be good for 5.5 to 6 WAR instead of 5. Berkman will presumably get to play at least some first base, and though he claimed outfield was easier on his knees (or whatever his health problem was, I think it was his knees) his defense should be way, way better at first than in the outfield.
Then there’s Wainwright, possible improvement from a still-young Garcia, no Theriot (I hope), no Skip at second base (I hope) etc.
There’s a lot that could get better as well as a lot that could get worse. I expect us to be about as good as we were in 2011 which, at this moment, makes me comfortable we are at least co-favorites for the division with somebody, or within striking distance.
Good point, bullpen will be cheap and young...
and I’m sure MO will spend a little at SS/2B/OF to help fill the gap.
by Ozzie Potter on Dec 8, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
The only over-performances that I'm worried about:
Freese and Jay.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
To a lesser extend I'm a little worried about Craig
He hit as good or better than his minor league numbers, but over a pretty small sample. There’s also the surgery/late start.
Jay didn’t hit out of his mind or anything, but his offense might slide a bit.
I still don’t know what the heck to think about Freese. Heck, maybe he and McGwire really did make some kind of Bautista-esque breakthrough (obviously to a much lesser extent).
IHB will cry foul but the BABIP for Jay and Freese scares me a lot.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, it still scares me
I am OK with people making arguments about it both ways but it’s definitely not a sure thing with the information we have available.
HUSH YOU
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
:P
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
"handcuffing" is a good word.
I’d been balking at “crippling” getting thrown around, but handcuffing sounds about right.
At any rate, fun to all of a sudden have money in the budget to imagine with.
Time to face it - we now officially suck
although I’m not sure who in the Central will be better than us . . .
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
Wowsa
That’s a ton of money and years. I wanted him back, but at that money the team would have been crippled.
I’m glad he won’t be in the NL, at least.
Hopefully Moz doesn't go crazy
and start spending the “extra” cash. Save it up so we can lock up Miller, Craig and the youth in a few years. Also, don’t sign Beltran or K-Rod please. Talk to Boras and see what Fielder may cost – if it’s crazy then leave him for the Cubs. I’d be fine with Berk at first, Craig in right, Komatsu as the 4th OF and maybe signing another RH bat to fill in when Jay needs time off. Then bring back Punto to back up the kids in the infield. Maybe even talk to the Angels about Kendrys Morales and Alberto Callapso. They have logjams at 3B, SS and 1B. We can help with that.
No thanks...
Terrible defense, too pricey.
by Ozzie Potter on Dec 8, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Trade
Something like Martinez, Taveras would be required. Dunno if it’s worth it, but we’d be buying low with his 2011 stats.
In what St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa called a "big day" for his club, starter Chris Carpenter took the mound for his first session of live batting practice and promptly buzzed the fuzz on catcher Jason LaRue’s chin with an errant fastball.
"Sorry," Carpenter called from the mound.
"Don’t say you’re sorry," LaRue barked back.
"He said it," pitching coach Dave Duncan said from the side of the cage, "but he didn’t mean it."
~ DG
Definitely a player that would not jive with TLR...
But perhaps would with MM.
by Ozzie Potter on Dec 8, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Has to be thought about
Especially considering that we have the depth and talent to get him.
Miller is off limits. Anyone else, however, is on the table I think.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Darvish is posting
I would fully support this move
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At the right price
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I enjoy replying to myself
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Ready to cough up the $100MM posting fee?
Not to mention how much he will make on the contract itself. No thanks.
I'm not so sure I want to go for Darvish
I know it’s unfair to compare him to Matsuzaka. However, I recently saw this interesting piece on BtB.
It’s not all that convincing, because Colby Lewis was much older than Darvish when he accomplished what he did in Japan. However, I keep getting the feeling that even Yu Darvish might not be worth the ridiculous cost of obtaining him. The posting process just seems crazy to me. You pay a bunch of money just for the right to negotiate with someone, and then you have to sign them to a contract. There’s lots of hype but at the end of the day it’s still very difficult to determine how they will actually perform in the American major leagues.
That said, Darvish’s numbers do seem to kick ass and he’s still surprisingly young. But since our main strength in our farm is starting pitchers I just think it’s probably not worth it to us. Also the Cardinals have mostly stayed out of the Japanese player market and I can’t ever remember them being linked to the big names coming out of the NPB (I could be wrong or forgetful though). Just doesn’t realistically seem like the Cardinals’ style.
I have grown to believe that the Cardinals should not spend a dime on Japanese League players.
There is the posting fee and then the salary on top of it. I view it as a huge gamble.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah
Darvish looks so good that he might be one of those true Ichiro-type players who will be excellent in the MLB… but I cannot believe he will be more cost-effective than just acquiring a similarly talented non-NPB player. I just don’t see how it’s ever worth it to sign one of these big name NPB players unless it’s a once in a lifetime kind of guy.
What about Cespedes, the Cuban OF?
* sarcasm may be involved in this comment.
by Futility Infielder on Dec 8, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Hm, not sure about that
There’s no such thing as a posting fee for him, right? However, I would think Cuban baseball is even more of an unknown than Japanese baseball. Not sure I’d bother, but who knows.
No.
I mean, sure, go ahead and put in a reasonable posting bid, but his rights won’t be won with a reasonable posting bid.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
This is a fair point
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
Most certainly
If this was the NBA, he’d be pushing the Cards now to trade him to LA
by olddomination on Dec 8, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
it's more likely that he'll go back to the team of his brothers.
that makes sense in some ways.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
though i wonder when molinas became pokemon
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I feel kind of sorry for you guys.
And I do not say this as snark.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
We'll be fine, but thanks.
It’s the name on the front of the jersey that matters the most to us.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
by lightbulb on Dec 8, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 10 recs
Looking forward to seeing y'all in 2012...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid. I'm a Sheeple and proud of it!
Spelling and grammar errors are included for creative and artistic reasons.
very well said
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
that was beautiful...
(sniffle)
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
The emotional pain is tempered
by the fact that letting him walk, at that price, was the right baseball move.
by Pegasus on Dec 8, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
why, we got his probably best years on the cheap
he’s free to make the deal that nets him the most
we’re better off without him on the books at that price
good luck in LA
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I sincerely appreciate the sentiment
I was really, really hoping he would stay. I would be lying if I tried to say I am not sad or disappointed. However, I believe in a measure of stoicism when it comes to this sort of thing. And the future still looks bright to me.
To Quote Albert last year...
“Its not about the money”…….
So long Lebron…..I hope you lose to the Rnagers for 10 straight years…..
I still maintain Vladimir Konstantinov got what he deserved...If you can't handle that then kiss my ass......
"I've got a bad feeling about this..."
I hope he loses to the Astros for the next 10 straight years....(starting in 2013)
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
I hope he promptly suffers a career-ending injury
is that petty?
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
yes, pretty much by definition
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
Can't blame Albert for this
He wanted to get paid, and he got paid. Simple as that. I would have a hard time turning down an offer that was 20% more than make at my current company.
by guru4u on Dec 8, 2011 10:43 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but your 20% more
buys more groceries. His buys more, umm, more generations of wealth?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
It'll be alright
Good things can still happen the year after you lose your best player. Mariners of 2001 come to mind.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
Cardinals, winter 1984.
Lost Bruce Sutter to the Braves and most were predicting a fall to last place, certainly a losing record. And the Cardinals came within one game of a Series win in 1985.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Dec 8, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I've been dead inside for years
Welcome!
VEB hipster
by flavius217 on Dec 8, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ZombieVEB
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
by pattimagee on Dec 8, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
is this where VEB starts the beer thread?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I gotta say…
I know I’m not the only one, but I’m relieved he is signing elsewhere. This is going to hurt in the short-term (next 3-4 years), unless we win it all again. But it would have handicapped us 5 years out and beyond, regardless of any age or injury speculation. I would have liked to see Pujols end his career having played every game for the Redbirds, and I feel privileged to have experienced something as amazing as the first 11 years of his career, but this was a decision that had to be made.
I'm relieved as well
The money isn’t the big deal, it was the years. A 10-year contract is something a team regrets signing before the ink is dry. Thanks for the memories Albert but I’m glad the Redbirds didn’t sign you.
I am sad.
I know value, stats, regression and WAR can all lead to different conclusions. But, I do know that Cardinals baseball got a lot less fun for me to watch.
Stealing 2nd down 1 to the Cubs in the ninth, throwing out Utley at third, playing 15 yards off of First base; three homer games; and the best 1B glove man of his generation.
Please let us all mourn before we start enjoying the thought of Berkman no longer having to flag down fly balls.
I was at the game when Pujols stole second in the 9th against the Cubs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
We did not expect it to end this way.
NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!!
by The Spanish Inquisition on Dec 8, 2011 10:47 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm mostly feeling sad for Ron Washington right now.
Bert is going to have a whole lot of ABs against the Rangers next season.
I wonder how many HRs he'll hit at Arlington.
Seemed to enjoy his time there in October.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Dec 8, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
DOOOOOOOM
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
Season's over.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Just like when Wainwright got injured.
We have no chance.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Bye Albert
Thanks for 11 seasons of outstanding baseball, 3 MVPs, 2 WS titles and all the work you did in the community. You will be greatly missed. Good luck in LA.
by Bonofied on Dec 8, 2011 10:48 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
He deserved more gold gloves, more MVPs, and more money.
And moving to LA he got one of those things.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
This.
I am thankful that my kids got to see Pujols play in person several times a year. It was a once in a lifetime chance, I’m glad we had it and not a Cleveland or Boston.
That's the one thing that upsets me the most about this
my wife and I just had our first child in October (she was born during game 3!) and now she will never get to see Pujols play for the Cards. I’m sure she’ll find another favorite and she’ll never know what she missed, but it just makes me kind of sad.
Oh well, life goes on and so does Cardinal Baseball!!
Second best outcome
The best was AP accepting a Cardinal offer that didn’t hamstring the franchise.
The second best was AP getting paid and moving on to the AL where we wouldn’t meet him regularly.
Deep breath. Life goes on. Go Cards!
Who's faster home to first? Yadi or Torty?
by huja on Dec 8, 2011 10:48 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Have a feeling Holliday is going to be worthless without albert also. His contract is a waste now too...
This sucks…..
Everything sucks….
Baseball is the team sport in which an individual's production is most independent of his teammates.
Holliday will be fine.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Don't feel that way
Holliday, especially compared to his peers and his so-called “peers” is a good deal for us. He is not Jayson Werth and he is not Alfonso Soriano.
Hey guys...
Craig for first base! Problem solved!
by cloistermaximus on Dec 8, 2011 10:50 AM EST reply actions
Once Craig gets healthy.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
so, actually, this raises a question for me
do we play Adams/Hamilton at 1B until Craig is healthy and Berk in the OF? or sign our 4th OF, play him in RF, and let Berk just play 1B? latter seems like the proper option, right?
I think a CF would do the trick...
put Jay in RF til Torty returns, then Jay is our 4th OF.
by Ozzie Potter on Dec 8, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Byrd is in the midst of his mid-30s decline.
I’d want nothing to do with him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
mo should guilt trip them good
by jealousblues on Dec 8, 2011 11:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
not long if he was smart
I’m sure it will be vandalized shortly
Sign me!
by arthropodtodd on Dec 8, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Statue will be vandalized
in the Pujols. Get it? It’s like those jokes Cubs fans used to make about our future HOF 1st baseman
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I can understand that I guess, but
I hope it stays up and not vandalized. Like this move or not, he was and always will be a big part of STL history.
Disappointed but generally fine with this...
I would have been fine with the Cards paying Pujols that kind of money, I think they would have ultimately gotten their money’s worth (although, not strictly from on-field performance). That said, I’m also fine that they didn’t spend that money. It clearly allows them more flexibility in the mid- and long-term (I’d like to see them re-sign Yadi, Wainwright and Freese when the time comes.
I can’t say “It was clearly ALL about the money” either, because the Angels will win ball games. It does sound like it was at least as much about the money as it was the winning though. The Holliday contract proved the Cards were interested in surrounding him with talent, and 3 WS appearances and two wins seems to satisfy the ‘winning’ side of things.
He still gave us 11 great years, he’ll still be one of the all-time greats, and he’ll be fun to watch on occasion, but I won’t be going out of my way to do so.
I need a hug...
Good luck in your new digs Albert…
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 8, 2011 10:50 AM EST via mobile reply actions
*hug
*beers
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
Congrats to the Cards organization
You held your ground. At least a little. I was praying your 10 year offer didn’t get accepted.
Now what’re you gonna do about losing Luhnow?
by sdrone on Dec 8, 2011 10:50 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
not even mad
We got to see the best for a decade play the best he’ll ever play. The Angels will be lucky to get 2-3 more seasons like he had in his peak years. Either way, I’ll savor every memory, from that first homerun in Arizona to celebrating the World Series last month.
Its been real Bert. Peace out.
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Get well soon Craig Allen.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Dec 8, 2011 10:51 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Can I point something out, people?
Pujols is one person. The millions of Cardinals fans who have put him on a pedestal are legion.
Is Albert Pujols some kind of hypocrite? Maybe. He’s one person. An imperfect person. It’s a hell of a lot to expect from someone to live up to the hopes and dreams of millions of people. It is actually possible that Pujols is not a terrible person. Can we please stop it with the “ex-boyfriend” bullshit? It’s not becoming of VEB. It’s OK to be disappointed, but please stop acting like Superman was just arrested for murdering children or something. Also, the comparisons to Musial are ridiculously unfair as has been pointed out above. It was a different time with different rules and customs. It’s an apple/oranges comparison. Stop it.
As for me, I’m very disappointed, even sad. But I knew this was a possibility. We got one of the best players of all time for eleven years and, though we paid him handsomely for how young he was when he got his first big contract, we also came out miles ahead value-wise.
by mattybobo on Dec 8, 2011 10:51 AM EST reply actions 12 recs
Superman murdered children?
Dear God! Next thing you know we’ll learn the Hulk has been exposing himself….
Sign me!
by arthropodtodd on Dec 8, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm already pretty damn bored with the personal digs.
Like, how again does it make sense that Pujols wronged anyone by not doing something (signing with hometown team for a discount on first FA deal) that, to my best recollection, NOBODY does?
OVERREACTION
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 8, 2011 10:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
How many people are acting that way though?
You don’t have to suck up to him and throw him a parade out of town.
It’s not like we are burning jerseys and cutting down statues
I thought most have been pretty level headed about it
by jealousblues on Dec 8, 2011 11:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
is this for real?
oh well
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
And hey, who's ready for the Matt Adams era?!?!?!
Dude will hit 108 homeruns his rookie year. Book it.
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
by slu on Dec 8, 2011 10:53 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I hope so
Being he is from my area I was hoping he’d get a shot with my favorite team. It’s ok to hope he pulls an ’01 Pujols in Spring Training this year right?
GM Honors
I say give Mozeliak the GM of the year award. He gets the pieces together for a World Series and refuses to allow the best player to bankrupt the team. Good for us all that he’s an Angel we can’t afford to pay anyone that and we can’t afford the ego that comes with it.
Thanks for the years Al, it was fun.
by TheWizard'sDisciple on Dec 8, 2011 10:55 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
pretty much agree
mixed emotions all around. i know i won’t root for him again but i won’t root for negative things either. he’s just kind of edgar renteria dead to me.
by paposse on Dec 8, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, maybe we can get another Rasmus with the comp pick
Errr… maybe not.
Coincidentally enough, Mozeliak won the GM of the Year award.
(I don’t think that is what it is actually called.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Idk about GM of the year
But he’s the favorite for the JM of the year award.
ha ha !
You only did it so that you could wear terry underwear and feel the city air run past your body
...
The Angels completed a deal with lefty C.J. Wilson, an executive who spoke to the team told Joel Sherman of the New York Post.
NYP, so i don’t trust it, but MLBTR posted.
they just jumped their payroll about $20.5 mil
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
more than that, i'd wager.
they better win it all in the next 2 or 3.
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
'Been a hell of an off-season for the Birds on the Bat
Wouldn’t be surprised if Fred Bird was busted running a prostitution ring at this point.
Who's faster home to first? Yadi or Torty?
that's not what the van is for
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Mo is clearing out every conceivable rival...
Luhnow, Pujols, and La Russa in a month… Tony Soprano doesn’t work much faster than this.
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 8, 2011 10:57 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
well that is fun way to think about things....
Sign me!
by arthropodtodd on Dec 8, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
In five years this team will be completely legitimate...
by mattybobo on Dec 8, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
...
LARUSSA: There was this kid I grew up with; he was younger than me. Sorta looked up to me, you know. We did our first work together, worked our way out of the street. Things were good, we made the most of it. At the turn of the century, we ran him out to whichever position was open… won a lot of games together, Jocketty, too. As much as anyone, I loved him and trusted him. Later on he had an idea to build himself a permanent spot in the desert of first base than McGwire had left behind. That kid’s name was Albert Pujols, and the position he invented was First Baseman With Third Baseman Range. This was a great man, a man of vision and guts. And there isn’t even a plaque, or a signpost or a statue of him in this town other than the one at his restaurant!
Someone put a bullet through his final contract demand. No one knows who gave the order. When I heard it, I wasn’t angry; I knew Albert, I knew he was head-strong, talking loud, saying stupid things. So when he turned up in Anaheim, I let it go. And I said to myself, this is the business we’ve chosen; I didn’t ask who gave the order, because it had nothing to do with business!
by Pegasus on Dec 8, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 15 recs
thusly
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 8, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He is not Harry Potter anymore.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Dec 8, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
y'know, we never know what happens to Mr. Potter other than the epilogue of improbable reality /hedgingfordanup
it seems without the Death Eaters or Dumbledore, that’s a tremendous power vacuum. he could just take over. so maybe at present, Don Mo is still Harry Potter.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This sucks.
I knew it was coming, but it still sucks. If he’s 33 like they’re reporting, I don’t want to be paying $30 million to a 43 year old first baseman either.
However, I still don’t like the Holliday contract if they weren’t going to pony up for Albert. Just my opinion.
Agreed on Holliday contract...
it doesn’t seem to make any sense without them also paying Pujols boatloads of money.
They don't.
But I think they overpaid a little for Holliday, and I would rather that money have gone to Pujols than Holliday.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
But...
I agree that I’m glad to have Holliday on the team now, and what’s done is done.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
i think the market has shown us that they actually did not over pay for holliday
we got surplus value over the first two seasons of over $23 million
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
wat
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I'll bet a million dollars he doesn't get appendicitis again.
I’ll also bet a million dollars he doesn’t get a moth stuck in his ear in 2012.
by mattybobo on Dec 8, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I said it further down too, but...
There were some things I hadn’t thought about and I was wrong.
Holliday does do some cringe-worthy things (getting picked off 3rd in game 6, dropping a routine fly ball vs. the Dodgers in ‘09), but by and large he’s been a good investment.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Ditto.
Not to duplicate @u2nspenserfan verbatim but, of course players don’t have to come in pairs, and I’m thrilled to have Holliday on the team especially in Pujols absence. It just seemed to me at the time that he was given so much money largely as a gesture to Pujols to say "Hey, we want to surround you with good players so we have a chance of competing year-in/year-out. That’s all.
It's allowed to be both that gesture and a good contract for a great player
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Yeah, the on-the-field reasons for signing players always take precedent
If Holliday made it more likely for us to keep Pujols, that’s a nice bonus.
Pujols is 31 years old.
He will be 32 on January 16, 2012. The Angels’ will pay him until he is 41 years old. That makes this one very risky contract.
Thank God we still have Matt Holliday as the centerpiece of the offense. He has been a top 10 player in baseball for several years.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I agree.
What I’m saying is that when we gave Holliday that 7 year deal, I said at the time I would have much preferred they locked up Albert long term and then worried about Holliday. I still think that we should have made it happen then.
However, with where we are now, you’re right – 10 years is too big of a risk for a team that doesn’t have infinite resources, and I’m glad that we have Holliday.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
honestly
it would have taken more money to lock Pujols up then, 1) b/c he was younger and in his prime (remember when everyone thought he’d for sure get $30mil per, b/c he was putting up 9 WAR seasons), and 2) he seemed hell-bent to go to free agency so to change his mind, we would have had to overpay. Had they resigned him then, no Holliday and no Berkman.
don't underestimate the fact that the extension could have superseded the last few years on his deal
he would have been making AAV of $20M+ right away
Don't assume that Albert
wasn’t a driving force in this situation. There’s plenty of evidence that he was determined to go to free agency, and anything short of a truly stupid extension from the Cardinals 2-3 years ago would have been rejected. This narrative that all the control of the situation was in the team’s hands is very unlikely.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 8, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Well, I'll admit I'm just wrong here.
You guys bring up some points I hadn’t though about. Holliday was needed for either situation – if Albert were to stay, we needed another bat. If he were to go, we needed a bat to replace. For that, the contract wasn’t a stretch.
I had assumed that Albert would stay given a fair contract, but seeing that he wouldn’t stay for 8 or 9 years and in the realm of $200 million says he was probably looking to get out period.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Do you not realize Holliday is one the best players in MLB?
Why do so many fans act like this is not the case?
Stay classy StLouis
You knew this day was coming, as disappointing as it is, please don’t suddenly hate on the guy. Leave the hate for those teams who never appreciate what they had in the 1st place. You will always have a top notch organization, and you will continue to prevail
by 27ftBaja on Dec 8, 2011 10:58 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
While I'm perfectly fine with these sentiments...
I find it strange that an outsider would come here and try to tell us how we should feel about it. You can’t know how it feels, so please save the preaching about how we should react.
Thanks.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
rays fan, eh?
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Artie Moreno
I think Pedro Gomez @ ESPN had it right:
#Angels stung so badly last year by losing Carl Crawford, owner Artie Moreno obviously wasn’t going to let it happen again and landed Pujols
I think the Cards took a different lesson
from the Crawford contract.
Winner of the prestigious 2011 MVL as presented by Alxfritz.
"You didn't win LOY, but you did win MVL, which is a prestigious award I just made up. And that’s something RiverRat can never take from you." - Alxfritz
that went kinda quick though, didn't it?
kinda weird…
so now what Berk to 1B, Craigen to RF?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Once Craig is healthy after his knee surgery, I'd say so.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Pujols still goes in to the HoF as a Card, right?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
If it's pure production...
I’m sure he won’t double what he’s done to this point. Probably won’t go to the playoffs seven more times either.
Sign Roy O
I just don't get that argument
I see where you guys are coming from, but isn’t it just so incredibly obvious that the bulk of his accomplishment will have been in St. Louis?
Also a factor: recency bias
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Dec 8, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Right now
I almost don’t want that. But I’m sure I will when it’s all over.
by Cheeseballs on Dec 8, 2011 11:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I really hope so
But not sure. Especially if he breaks a bunch of records as an angel.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 8, 2011 11:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Who cares?
He’s gonna play nearly half his career for another organization. He may have played his best years with the Cardinals however he’s not an icon of the franchise any longer. No red jacket.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 8, 2011 11:11 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Serious question: if no red jacket for Pujols, are we done giving them out entirely?
The Cardinals don’t have the money to give guys Jeter treatment. Is there ever going to be another home-grown HOF player who stays with the team his entire career? I kind of doubt it.
I'd be more likely to give them to someone like Carp
Who chooses to stay here. I know that may seem odd, but it means more to me.
Yeah
I’m sure Carp could have waited and gotten more than what he did (even with his nerve issue) but he stayed
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Brock was neither homegrown nor spent his whole career here
Red played with the Braves…there will be moar red jackets…I do doubt Pujols will be one of them though
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
I think the point was...
that Pujols will be playing nearly half of his career with another team. Brock spent the majority of his caree with the Cardinals (16 and 1 half of 19 seasons).
Sutter has a red jacket, doesn't he?
And he only spent four years in St. Louis.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Dec 8, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
I can't imagine why he wouldn't
Does anybody imagine he’ll produce more as an Angel than he did as a Cardinal? He played eleven full outstanding years as a Cardinal.
How does this sound?
Paul Konerko has 2 yrs left on a nice deal and the Sox are dumping Contracts. I think he can hit .300 with 30 hrs and 100 rbi
We kind of have a ready made solution for first with Allen Craig and Lance Berkman...
not to mention Matt Adams. We need middle infielders and center fielder.
Sign Roy O
Craig is hurt, and has 1 productive year
Berkman is signed for 1 year. With Konerko, you can see if Craig can do it again, if so, he can replace Berk after next yer, and if Adams is for real, he can replace Konerko in 2014. Maybe we can get Ramirez or Beckam too.
Craig has hit every single year in the minors
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 8, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
forget getting another first baseman
we have that covered short-term (Berk) and, hopefully, long term (Adams) – where we need to upgrade is SS and 2B – how about a trade for Steven Drew?
I wouldn't mind Drew
I’d really like Ramierz
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Drew would be nice...
but the Dbacks are a contending team. Why trade him?
by Ozzie Potter on Dec 8, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
whether the Cards go after Drew or not
the key idea to me is to upgrade at SS and 2B, and add some OF and left-handed relief help. We’ve all been bitching for years about the lack of 2B production and the SS problems. Because of Pujols’ presence, the team has chosen not to spend many dollars in other areas of need. Though I would have loved to have had Pujols be a Card for life, the team needs to take advantage of his leaving to reallocate dollars to positions of need. At least in the short-term, 1B is not a position of need.
Exactly
Given that we no longer have to worry about keeping Pujols, I am very curious to see how we approach the middle infield from here on out. I’m not necessarily expecting them to make a huge splash for 2012, but one would think they would take advantage of their new freedom to concentrate more on premium positions.
I think we should start the season with Greene and see what the trade market is.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, I'd kinda be OK with trying to figure out what we can get out of Greene once and for all
I’m really not expecting a big MI move this year.
the people around here griping about pujols' ego and loyalty
would probably not like Hanley once he got here.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
If they threw in Alexei, then yes.
If not, then no.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
by fourstick on Dec 8, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ok, Im done with Pujols talk.
Where is the thread where we talk about who we trade for?
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
Relief washes over me...
Odd really.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 8, 2011 11:04 AM EST reply actions
so do the cards at least
Take a peak at fielder or just spread the money around?
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 8, 2011 11:04 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Wish Albert had to tell Stan this
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 8, 2011 11:04 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Honestly, I don't feel as bad as I thought I would.
As great as Pujols was, I sort of feel relieved that we’re in a better position to be competitive for the next decade.
So… onto the next step. I would actually love to see Allen Craig and Berkman take turns rotating RF / 1B this year and see if Craig can be a long-term 1B solution.
WWCD? CDGAF.
Can't really blame Albert.
$50 million plus is just too much to leave on the table. However when California melts down like Greece and State Income Tax goes to 25% for millionaires 9 years 200 million is going to look pretty good.
Good luck Albert, you were a pleasure to watch for the last 11 years and I wish you the best going forward. Hopefully we’ll see you again one day when you sign a one day contract to retire a Cardinal.
Thanks for the memories, Albert
Thanks for the 3 home run game against the Cubs in 2003. Thanks for the back-to-back walk offs against the Cubs earlier this year. Thanks for that home run against Lidge. Thanks for 3 home runs in a world series game. Thanks for scoring from 2nd on a grounder up the middle. Thanks for mowing down Utley in the playoffs, trying to advance to 3rd. There are about 100 more moments I could thank you for right now, but these are the ones that come immediately to mind. I wish you well. I will forever consider you the greatest right handed hitter of all time. Good luck.
by Chief Bartle on Dec 8, 2011 11:06 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Scoring from second...
on a grounder up the middle was nothing…scoring from second on a sac fly (2009)? was awesome!
"Progress always involves risk; you can't steal second base and keep your foot on first base." - Frederick Wilcox
good job with the quick graphs, bgh
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I swear the formatting looked identical on my screen.
But not on the main post page. SBN’d.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
after spending the morning convincing myself that I am ok with Pujols leaving,
I had to watch FESPN and watch their “Best of Pujols” and now I has a sad. Got chills watching the highlights, especially the Lidge homer.
yeah that's the bright side for me
montages!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
repost - It is my sad duty as de facto comptroller of the calendar to report:
Today, the 69th Day in Ozzie Ordinary Time in the Year of Our Berk, is the final day of Albertofstan.
It was a magnificent season of Ozzie, to be sure, one which will be remembered for all the ages of humanity.
From here on, I will assume we are now living in the Land of Stan.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 8, 2011 11:07 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
it's a meme, so it's open to VEBage.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I kind of like simplifying that to Shelbystan
Has a nice ring to it I think. But that’s a lot of pressure to put on Miller.
Musiland?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
might not pass the drunk-test for memeage.
also now i want some muesli.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
So Albert gave us s80.8 WAR over the last 10 years
What do you think he gives the Angels over the next 10? I’m guessing in the neighborhood of 40-50
Really? That's awesome
I hope that pans out, b/c I have $20 riding on a bet that it would be 50% or less.
i would tend to believe that this is an accurate representation
and gut feeling, that there is a better chance total value is greater than 38.3 than less- but i don’t know. it seems like a reasonable number.
Arte Moreno used to be rich
Something clever...
by Dttl89 on Dec 8, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
over the next 10 years they just dished out
325 million in contracts for two players. That’s fucking insane.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 8, 2011 11:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Two kind of iffy bets, as well
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Go ahead and add Vernon Wells to that
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
The Rangers should've won that WS when they had the chance...
Haren-Weaver-Santana-Wilson is pretty good.
Sign Roy O
Waino-Carp-Garcia-something-something-mumble-er-
will be competitive, if not equal. BUT:
Waino-Carp-Garcia-Miller-Lynn-or something
will blow them away!
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
I actually have a lot of friends who are Astros fans and Rangers fans
And my wife’s family is all from Washington so I know a lot of Mariners fans. The AL West is kind of an awkward place for me now… well, more so anyway.
Rangers.
They were going to be my AL team anyway, given how classy they were in the WS.
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
My biggest concern is Berkman
Last year was a hefty surprise. If he reverts, our offense takes a big hit.
fielder, beltran, and furcal
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 8, 2011 11:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
He likely won't have as excellent a season as he did in 2011, due to natural decline.
But, looking at his career, 2010 was the outlier and that was due to a knee injury. Before the season, he worked out to lose weight and said that his knee felt stronger. This can get mixed in with a media narrative, to be sure, but the results showed on the field. I don’t expect Berkman to fall off a cliff in 2012.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Also, assuming he is now our 2012 first baseman, he shouldn't give away as much value on defense as before
which would at least mitigate offensive decline somewhat, at least compared to 2011.
Staying away from ESPN for awhile. I just don’t want to see/hear their spin on all this. Sometimes sports transcends money, sometimes it is defined by it. As for the former, we’ll always have 2006 and 2011, but today for me is defined by the latter. Thankful I have VEB to help with the grieving process.
"The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self awareness." - Annie Savoy
by redbirdbluedevil on Dec 8, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions
You should hear it.
Kurkjian was just talking about how the Cardinals should have locked up Pujols two years ago. Kurkjian is among the smartest people on ESPN but it’s idiotic to say a 10/275 deal two years ago is especially preferable to a 10/250 one today.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
he also said Bobby Valentine was the greatest manager out there for any team looking
so, you know.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
On that particular front
he might not be wrong. I hate Valentine, but that’s subjective. Looking at his track record, it’s clear that he’s a good manager.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
having heard his comments on the tube
I think Kurkjian was saying if they wanted to lock him up now, it should’ve been done two years ago.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Because Pujols would have signed that deal two years?
I think he was headed to free agency all along.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
no, Kurkjian's saying he was heading to free agency because he was mad the Cards didn't do more to extend him.
two years ago. so we’d be doing 10 years two years ago, he’s automatically younger when the contract ends…
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
well yes two years ago @275M, is what I heard. They wouldn't do it then annd they wouldn't do it now.
TortyCraig
My guess as to the meaning of Yadi's neck tattoos is that they are the symbols from an ancient civilization for "Caught Stealing."
right. I agree they wouldn't have done it.
I’m saying Kurkjian’s outlining why we are in this chain of events.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yeah but that would be equivilent to a 8/220 or so by now
which isn’t all bad as he’d be under 40 when it expired.
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Dec 8, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Cards don't need to rebuild
We need to reload
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 8, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
Um, no.
By “reloading” we put ourselves in a very bad situation in just a few years with bad contracts to aging players. I can defend a Pujols “lifetime” offer, but the same contract to someone like Fielder? Just can’t.
I also can’t fathom blowing up the farm as a reaction to Albert leaving.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Ditto.
Cooler heads prevailed in the Pujols negotiations, there’s no chance that they would blow up after losing him. If they didn’t feel the pressure to boost their offer, I’m confident they won’t feel the pressure of a big response to missing out.
Lefty Grove isn't interested in your pitch counts.
by mynameistyler on Dec 8, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Goodbye sweet prince
Thank for all the memories Albert. I’ll never forget the brains/balls on the basepaths, the slick fielding at first, the huge grin after victory, the line drive double to the gap in right center….and the homeruns…..i’ll never ever forget the homeruns
Most of all though, i’ll never forget that for 11 years, we had the best player baseball had to offer, and I will always love him for it.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 8, 2011 11:12 AM EST reply actions 8 recs
It's a sad day.
Goodbye Albert, thanks for the memories. Thanks for being the greatest Cardinals player I will likely ever witness. Thanks for, what I assume, were your best playing years.
Honestly, I am a bit relieved that we will not be paying Albert $25million/year (or even $22million) for his decline years, which may have already started.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
How much is Albert really saving.....
in this deal? I’m assuming Cali has higher state taxes and property taxes. Probably sales tax too. Cost of living and real estate is probably more expensive. Moving his family, I’d assume a more expensive school for his kids, possibly moving his charity…..
I’m guessing what he ends up saving over the long haul is a pretty small percentage of his net worth. I don’t want to sit here and be bitter or angry, but I really thought of all the players that have been stars in the last decade, Albert was the one that wouldn’t do something like this. I’d have valued his legacy of being THAT big of a star over two decades with the same team, over an additional take home of maybe $30M.
To each their own though. STL will move on and be fine. Time to find out what the backup plan is.
...
I don’t want to sit here and be bitter or angry, but I really thought of all the players that have been stars in the last decade, Albert was the one that wouldn’t do something like this.
you know, i’ve been thinking about this exact thing for a long time now, a year or two, and i’m not sure of the person Albert is, really. my idealistic view of Albert would agree completely with this idea- but i’ve become more and more convinced over the pat year that Albert isn’t the person i think he is/he is sometimes portrayed as.
I never really liked Albert the person
I respected the hell out of him as a ballplayer and what he did for the community, but I never bought into his BS. I think once Albert started putting up ridiculous numbers year after year, he inflated his ego more and more, TLR didn’t help by letting him essentially run the club either.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
None of us knows Pujols, especially Joker.
Most of us projected the traits of Musial onto him without much of a basis for doing so.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Hell, a lot of people project the traits of Musial onto Musial without much basis to do so.
(I have no doubt that Musial was as classy a guy as they come — just referring to the above discussion about loyalty and pre-Flood players)
by Pegasus on Dec 8, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
Rose colored glasses and sepia toned memories abound when discussing the players on your favorite pro sports teams. We rarely get an honest look at who they really are. I don’t think this contract negotiation with Pujols qualifies as “an honest look at who they really are” either.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Dec 8, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
There was talk of this a few threads ago...
I said the same thing — I never really liked him as a person. I always thought he was very disingenuous, and never liked how negative he was in most interviews, always acting like the entire world was disrespecting him. I highly expect him to come out and say that “God told me, this was the decision I should make.”
… But damn, he was one hell of a ballplayer.
WWCD? CDGAF.
lots of people know pujols personally all of a sudden
money really does change things
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
So you're not allowed to like / dislike any player's personality?
This has been my opinion on Pujols for years, the contract has zero to do with it. Some people rub you the wrong way.
WWCD? CDGAF.
Yeah, frankly I agree with you.
Can’t pretend to know him, but I’ve always had a strong suspicion that he’s kind of a defensive prick.
Which I should add wasn't something I cared much about either way.
didn’t bother me when he was a cardinal, and won’t bother me now that he’s not
Right, I mean whether or not you think he's the super nicest person in baseball ever...
Doesn’t change the fact that, yeah, he’s an amazing baseball player who gave the Cardinals 10 amazing years. So thanks, definitely keep the statue, and good luck in LA — he deserved a chance to cash in.
… But that doesn’t mean I have to think he was some super personable guy. :P
WWCD? CDGAF.
you didnt say you disliked his personality
you said you neever liked him as a person. you dont know him as a person.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
lozano did say he prayed on it
so i expect that as well
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think I know enough about him to make that sort of statement.
But it seemed once he’d won a series in ‘06 and then that team started slowly being disassembled – Rolen, Edmonds, all those guys gone – it became much more of a business to him and not so much ’just a game’. I don’t know that I blame the guy for that – it’s tough seeing people you’ve come to regard as family getting traded away or released.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Cost of living is exponentially higher for sure.
I would imagine it’s more the 10 years plus living in SoCal and I’m sure the organization pulled out all the stops for him to be ‘the man’ there. They have a good manager and an owner who’s shown he’s willing to spend top dollar to compete year in and year out.
You can say many of the same things about the Cardinals, but I think Albert is a proud man and had committed to leaving unless the Cardinals blew him away. Just my opinion.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
I am waiting to hear the final figures of the Cardinals offer
To do a tax adjusted offer. I think Pujols just wanted to say he got the most money.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 8, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I've said all along that he's not after purchasing power, he's after a big-looking number.
Respect is the motivator, not buying stuff.
I'm really hating this whole notion that
Pujols was underpaid so he deserved a big contract. I’m sorry, who’s fault was that again? Nobody knew what Pujols was going to do, he outperformed his contract. He also had been in the league for 3 years and was rewarded a hefty contract at the time. The fact that he outperformed it and was underpaid should have no effect on how much he makes now.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 11:15 AM EST reply actions
I kind of agree
we overpaid in the beginning of the deal to underpay at the end. The team took a huge risk in signing him to the last contract. That’s how long contracts to young players work.
But….The dude got paid. Good for him.
Something clever...
team friendly is an uderestatement.
32 teams would have paid more than we paid on that deal.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
That's probably not true
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
the royals wouldnt have paid him 16 million for 30 million WAR
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Richest contract in franchise history
lowest amount of service time for a 100m deal
9th ever 100m deal
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 8, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sad, but very very excited at what we can do with the money
We’ve got a pretty good farm system with some exciting prospects coming up soon (hello, shelby miller) and I think this franchise will continue to be great.
I don’t wish Pujols ill-will except for the fact that in the next 10 years I hope the Cardinals make the playoffs more than the Angels and win at least two more WS titles, while Albert gets nothing.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 11:17 AM EST reply actions
GMs getting their blurbs out with extremely bad audio (seriously wtf microphones)
there is a really creepy Japanese reporter behind the Jays GM
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Ravech is now on the phone. talking to the rep of CJ Wilson
awkward phone television.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
From someone at Halos Heaven
In the span of an hour we have become one of the most marketable teams in baseballl. Yes $250mill is a lot but we are going to be trucking in the cash with this. its a win win… except in 10 years we will basically be his coffin
I assume after 5 years he’ll be DHing quite a bit to keep going. I figured if he didn’t sign here it would be in AL.
Hockey players wear numbers because you can't always identify the body with dental records.
It is the sweet, simple things of life which are the real ones after all. Laura Ingalls Wilder
The Angels are like 5th in LA's sports hierarchy
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I always had a sneaking suspicion hey'd go hard after him.
Already a decent franchise, plus the Dodgers are down, big splash signing, large hispanic population to market to. THE TIME IS NOW. Er, WAS NOW.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
Yeah, Angels were certainly always pretty good bet to go for Pujols.
Much, much less of a surprise than the Marlins were.
And for Pujols, they were probably the only huge-market team that was going to make a legit run at him. I don’t know how much market size meant to him, but it may have been a factor.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Dec 8, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
I remember when several people said the Angels would be out of it because
they already had Kendrys Morales. As if Morales, even if healthy, was going to block Pujols. Too funny.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 8, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
That always made me uncomfortable.
I could see Votto blocking Pujols. I was not convinced Morales would block Pujols.
I'd really only put them behind the Lakers at this point
The Dodgers have really thrown away any good will, and it will take a ton of work to get it back. The Clippers are the Clippers. And unless they like hockey significantly more than I think they do, that pretty much puts the Angels, second by default.
I mean, those are all the major sports teams, right Rui?
I disagree -- the Dodgers are far ahead of the Angels
Unless it has radically changed in the last year (which I doubt) people in LA spend much more time talking about who they saw at the Dodgers game rather than anything about the Angels’ product on the field.
I'd go
1) Lakers
2) USC Football
3) Dodgers
4) UCLA Basketball
5) Angels
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Correct
SC and Dodgers flip from time to time based upon success, but this is really right. There is so much Lakers talk.
Especially if they land Howard and Paul like they want to
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
I was basing my statement more on the ill-effects of the Brian Stow incident
which I was under the impression had really hurt the Dodgers standing, but I could be wrong.
Maybe, I did hear a lot about security concerns at the stadium
But I suspect as far as media coverage the Dodgers will continue to far outdistance the Angels
That's a great line. In 10 years they will be his coffin.
He is still good right now tho. Between him and Wilson they are definitely division favorites now.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
farwell and good luck to albert
i am not happy, but i can say that the cardinals did the right thing by holding their ground. I only wish the best for Albert and it really helps that he is playing for a team that i don’t despise.
i'd like to take a moment to compliment Mo
on his balls of steel
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
as a proponent of the balls of steel meme
not bad.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
photo shop Mo's head on there and call it a day
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I request a Photoshop
Of Albert swimming in Scrooge McDuck’s pool of money.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 8, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
needs more scarf
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 8, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
For what
Not doing anything doesn’t count as doing something
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 8, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Just realized
he is and was no different than any other player in baseball. When it comes right down to it, it’s all about the money and not loyalty. Oh well, adios.
I bet Molina leaves too now.
So much for the state tax argument
Cali – 10.3% above $1M
by Buckeye Redbird on Dec 8, 2011 11:19 AM EST reply actions
Him playing for another team doesn't automatically mean he's moving.
So he’d only be taxed at Cali rates for games he plays in Cali, just like now, right?
"He probably misses his old glasses."
I guess he can afford to take a bath selling that compound of his now...
"He probably misses his old glasses."
he'll pay Cali tax on all of it
by rannpb on Dec 8, 2011 11:59 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Nah, that's not how it works for athletes
I’m pretty sure I recall from my tax class in law school that they pay tax everywhere they play. It’s very complicated.
work on the search function, you fiend!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Albert will get his ring in the mail.
just sayin’, y’all.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Let the PD shitstorm begin.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
"Local Man Takes Better Job Offer, Relocates" doesn't sell papers.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
and is as misleading as their headline
more money =/=better job
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
It
Will be interesting how he handles the media in a large market. He always for a free pass from the stl media. He has a lot to live up to in this contract.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 8, 2011 11:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Good question
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
at least he gave us a parting gift
a juicy quote vs. Strauss.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
wat?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
do you remember it? when he dismissed Strauss?
damn, I think it was someone’s sig.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That's a stupid question, Joe
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
well i think some people are trying to change that with this.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Maybe
They just don’t have a very rabid fan base. I lived there for 5 years. Even when they are doing well, you don’t hear many people talking about them. Very little TV coverage, little coverage in print. Maybe having Albert will change that some, but I’m not convinced.
he will get his Latino fanbase, though.
I don’t think the Dodgers are doing a great job of that.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I think there is much more of a Latino population in LA then in OC
And I don’t see a huge amount of Los Angelinos braving the terrible traffic to come down to Anaheim to root for Albert.
oh yeah, i forgot about the traffic.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It is such a misnomer to call them the LA Angels
The only time people from LA would routinely come to watch the Angels play is when they play the Dodgers.
soooo, Pujols jerseys half off starting today?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
They are going to be same isle as toilet paper
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 8, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Rec'd
A samurai sword collection. If you can do it. I don’t know if you’re allowed.
by TwoShoesMcGooze on Dec 8, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
I will buy one if they really are super cheap.
Dude was still one of the greatest Cardinals ever and the best RH Card hitter in history.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
those guys probably just realized they were all out of a job
the foundation guys too
ouch
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Freese23?
or how about TGIHolliday’s!
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Texas teams
Rangers gotta face Albert every year now… and Astros just can’t escape him.
and the Astros signed Lunhow as their GM
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
seriously where the hell is all this surprising new money pouring out of?
should we grab a bucket?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Angels have often been top 3 - 5 in salary.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Dec 8, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
halos, no question
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Rooting won't be the same
Here’s the deal: While there’s a case to be made that Pujols was just too expensive to hold onto, that a 10-year contract would be an albatros, and that the Cards have tons of money to buy new players now — all that said, the loss from a rooting stand point is tremendous.
When Pujols was at the plate, I believed anything was always possible. He was the greatest player in baseball, and not just now, but in this generation. He could be among the best of all time. He was a true marvel.
We might be able to find other players to replace the gaping WAR hole that’s been blasted into our roster, and we might be able to compete for the NL Central next year.
But that sense of rooting for a legend cannot be easily replaced. Not this year. Maybe not for the remainder of all of our lives.
Anyone who says this is not a big deal, I think, has for too long indulged the fiction that baseball fans should approach baseball like a GM. These are two different mentalities.
For fans, this is a disaster.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Dec 8, 2011 11:23 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
There was a time when I believed this:
When Pujols was at the plate, I believed anything was always possible.
But the last couple of years, I stopped believing anything was possible when he was at the plate.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 8, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And then he hit a double in the top of the ninth in game 6 of the World Series
down two runs
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
not true
I always believed a double-play was possible
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 11 recs
Your jib seems well cut.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Dec 8, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
The GIDPs and the start of this season where he was awful kind of killed it.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
remember his rediculous line with the bases loaded in 2009?
I still felt the same would happen in 2010 with him up with the bases loaded, not so much in 2011. This season, I didnt really feel the same with him at the plate. I, too, feel the same way, like the magic in his bat was eroding…
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
this may be true
But that sense of rooting for a legend cannot be easily replaced. Not this year. Maybe not for the remainder of all of our lives.
but the laundry is the same, and i won’t ever stop loving it
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
I don't feel like I've been
hit with a disaster. If you choose to feel that way, go ahead.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree that it is a "disaster" but only because that goes a little too far for me
I pretty much agree with your premise. I think it is a true loss of a significant kind to no longer get to root for a “legendary” player of his caliber on our team anymore. That’s real to me, and it’s one of the biggest reasons I wanted to keep him. I knew that we probably couldn’t sign him to a contract that made much sense from a pure on-the-field perspective. I didn’t care. If we had signed him to the contract the Angels signed him too, part of me still wouldn’t care, because I knew I would get to have something nobody has anymore—an all-time great on my team for his entire career. That was a prize not many sports fans ever get a shot at, especially in the time we live.
That said, it’s not a “disaster”, it’s just normal life as a sports fan. People are wrong to have taken something like that for granted, and though it sucks to realize that, it’s necessary as well. We had a shot at winning the lottery when it comes to completely owning a legend. We don’t get that, but that does not make us victims.
what Pujols statue?
i think it’s on his property.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I thought it was in front of the stadium
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 8, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
not unless they moved Busch III to Maryland Heights since the World Series
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
you guys, seriously.
let’s not be the cubs.
let’s not. be. the cubs.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 8, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no.
which just shows you
that this is CHAOS! ALARUM! DOGS AND CATS… OH MYGOSH
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
given your username
i’m going to leave now.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
the punishment for treason used to be hanging
not from a tree though
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
He is the voice of the SBN server.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
don't give away my file type.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 8, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They tried making a copy of you
But it kept spitting out wacky animated jpegs and pngs. Which doesn’t make any sense!
Also, neutrinos have a habit of all spinning in the same direction around you, which is weird and unsettling.
no, that's 'cause clank is always outside
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
A transcendent being that emerges from the depths of VEB to speak truths
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 8, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
ew, not everyone.
and use the towels!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
He's just sober more frequently than the rest of us
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
that's a dirty lie
the typing’s the last to go, i’ll have you know
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Id rec this if I could.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 8, 2011 11:27 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I live next to a cub fan/ cardinals fan couple
the cub fan was gloating this morning and said “so I guess Pujols isn’t the king anymore eh, how does that feel”
I said “Pop quiz, how many WS have the cardinals won in the past 10 years” “now how many have the cubs won in the past 100”
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
they never cease to amaze me
talking all that shit with absolutely nothing to back it up with
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
It's his statue, on his property, in front of his restaurant.
It is his to do with what he pleases.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah.
I was really confused when he unveiled that statue. And now it makes even less sense.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Until about one hour ago
Torty Craig, we hardly knew ye.
by KlausChadman on Dec 8, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
that would be stupid and expected. unfortunately.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
it makes perfect sense
if the Cardinals choose not to build him a statue, he has at least one in town.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Shouldn't have put it up til he was retired anyway.
Ambivalent about taking it down now tho.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I was hoping my son, who just turned one, would get to grow up watching albert as a cardinal
regardless of the affects aging will have on his performance….
now, i will just tell him stories about the greatest RH hitter to ever play the game, and hope that he gets to watch another all time great play his prime years for the cardinals sometime over the next 25 years
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 8, 2011 11:25 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
well, he can grow up watching Shelby Miller and Matt Holliday instead
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Kurkjian mentions that the Saint Louisan on the street said we love him, but ten years might be too much.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Okay, my first mean-spirited thought of the day:
For the last few years of that deal, I might kinda sorta enjoy referring to Pujols as The Albertross. He never really did have a good nickname, anyway.
He really wanted him to stay….
Torty Craig, we hardly knew ye.
by KlausChadman on Dec 8, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
post the actual photo from the stanthemaninc tweet
so we can be really sad
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Beyond Baseball
Watch this and tell me it doesn’t make you a little misty:
What I'm most glad about
Is that the Cardinals don’t come out looking like complete cuckolds here.
Living outside the Cardinal world, I can tell you that the average baseball fan believed that Albert would be going elsewhere, reasoning that the Cardinals couldn’t afford to keep him, like with the Brewers and Fielder. The Cardinals are perceived as a small market team by big market fans.
However, the Cardinals weren’t being cheap or spendthrift here. They made a valid long-term offer and got blown out of the water by one of the craziest contracts in sports history. And let’s face it, paying huge money to Albert when he’s in his 40’s only makes sense if you have a DH spot to put him in (like the Sox did with Carl Yastzremski as his career wound down).
For those wanting Beltran...
Isn’t Lozano his agent as well?
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cardinals are slightly unwillingly to deal with him immediately following the Pujols negotiations.
I'm not going to do anything stupid, like throw away my son's Pujols jersey
I just need a quick tutorial on how to take the letters off, and then sew on a 0 behind the 5
I was just gonna take a knife and peel it off
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I have a Pujols shersey I fear I will never be able to wear again
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
I'm putting mine in storage
until the day they become retro-cool. Maybe 20 years from now.
"There is one word in America that says it all, and that one word is, 'You never know.'" Joaquin Andujar
This just ruined my day.
I think it would be inappropriate to cry in class during our guest speaker but that’s what I want.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Do it.
I wanna go on a bender, but I have to fucking study
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
also Kruk may have summed up the 'keeping score' argument that i've been running with.
Best player in baseball = should be paid the best.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
You don't pay for the past
But the future
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 8, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
if you reread the argument, it was about Albert's perspective, not ours.
You’re being largely irrational in this thread, flim….
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I don't know the argument
I was not watching TV
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 8, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
the argument on VEB.
hence the…. rereading.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
this is a fallicy. all sports contracts work contrary to this in practice.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Not that Kruk would know a fucking thing about either of those two topics.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
10 years 3 WS Appearances, 2 Championships
.328 .420 .617 445 HR
Sorry to see you go Albert but the Cardinals will be better without 10 years of paying you 3/4 of the Rays payroll this year.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I SLEEP LATE AND LOOK WHAT YOU ASSHATS LET HAPPEN
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 11:37 AM EST reply actions
oh so it was your fault for sleeping late.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm not even in the mood to do this shit today
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
The trend holds
I buy a cardinals shirt and that player leaves within about 1 year. I should probably go buy a Kyle Lohse or Westbrook jersery today.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
It's certain to prove true for each of them.
Their contracts expire after 2012. Get a Schumaker jersey, if he signs with us.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
get a kozma jersey
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 8, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I bought a Cards shirt a couple of years ago
chose a Waino jersey rather than a Pujols one simply because I thought AP might leave
do they even make those?
if they do I’ve certainly never seen anyone with enough stones to wear one, lol
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Whats Mark Mulder up to these days?
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 8, 2011 11:40 AM EST via mobile reply actions
can he play 1b?
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 8, 2011 11:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yep that'll do
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
this is kind of low to be giffing The Man like this....
link to the original at least?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
fuck
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Slow Down VEB!!!!
I can’t keep up!
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
no shit, my boss walks in and wants something
and i’m already 10 trillion comments behind
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
try having to work VEB around seeing patients
why can’t they just no show today?!?!
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Such a strange feeling
it sucks that he’s no longer a cardinal. we were spoiled to have him. so i’m sad.
but, sweet lord that is a terrible contract, especially for an NL team to match, so I’m also relieved that we don’t have pay the piper on the tail end of that monster
and i’m also relieved this is over and we can move on
11 in '11!! To Infinity and Beyond!!! ...
five...
2 of ours plus 2 from Pujols plus 1 dotel… I guess we’ll get another when EJax signs.
So six.
Sign Roy O
No silver lining will completely cheer me up about all this
But this would be a good place to start if it could.
Sig's probably in charge now
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
THERE'S A NEW NERD IN TOWN.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 8, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
2 for albert
and a sandwich for dotel I believe, plus a sandwich for wherever Jackson signs (assuming it’s not us).
Who do we go for in Free Agency now??
World Series Champions 2011. Unbelievable. Tony LaRussa, you will be missed.
So I know this is not a person VEB is concerned about, but...
did Strauss jump off a bridge or something?
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 8, 2011 11:46 AM EST reply actions
did slu clean him out again?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i'm terrified and sad about Luhnow.
will he poach Amaury Marti Cazana too??
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Oh Darn and I was looking forward to setting a new grounding into DPs record again next year.
ok, being snarky.
No hard feelings — I’m trying. Good Luck. Albert. It just stings a little right now.
Mr. Mo can you go sign a free agent or make a trade and help us all feel better.
TortyCraig
My guess as to the meaning of Yadi's neck tattoos is that they are the symbols from an ancient civilization for "Caught Stealing."
Wow: Halos' 2012 payroll
$50M or so committed to 2 players—Wells and AP.
$18M to Torii Hunter.
$15M to CJ Wilson
$38M to three pitchers (Haren, Weaver, Santana)
$10M to Abreu
source: Cots
When you put it that way
The Pujols deal looks like a bargain.
LOL 50+ Million commited to Hunter, Wells and Abreu
a bargain in 2005
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
what an awful roster construction
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
And $5M to Bobby Bonilla
wait, that’s the Mets.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Dec 8, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have to make the comparison:
The Miami Heat. We’ll see how it pans out, but wow do they have a lot of money committed to a few players.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
It's clear what's going on here:
Moreno sees his chance to remake the LA baseball universe while the Dodgers falter around at the end of the McCourt era.
And, in a business sense, that Pujols contract might be a huge bargain if it plays out like this.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Yeah, this is a very good point
It may come down to this: The McCourts convinced Moreno to pounce, and signing Pujols was the center piece of his strategy.
....yeah......
"Pain is only in the mind. For me. Others, no." - Pornstache
"I also remember he threw the ball back to me harder then I threw it to the plate, so that was a little bit worrisome to me." - Boggs on Motte
by GasHouseMang on Dec 8, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
That's what I said in the last thread
I’ve got 5-6 good years left!
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 8, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
So... VEB-related question
Assuming today achieves TESS levels, will it count for 2011 or 2012? Is there a special offseason category of TESS?
TESS is for when you're winning or have a chance in a game, usually vs. a terrible team
and then lose it hugely in the end.
generally presaged by VEB talking about a body part.
/meme
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
well, it's a meme, so it's really about usage.
however, other than the mentioned drunk-test, the greatest memenemy is #lazyVEB.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
no, but the search function is.
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm sure this has been discussed, but
has anyone brought up the massive pressure that Albert was (likely) under from the MLBPA? As possibly the most iconic player currently playing, if he took anything less than the maximum offered, he’s potentially screwing every single player to negotiate a contract over the next ten years. I have a feeling that was “whispered” in his ear by numerous people. The hometown discount on ANY level was not going to happen.
SO glad the Cards didn’t pay this much money. Thanks for the service, Albert. Thanks for being this great. We’ve enjoyed it. See you later…we’ll be just fine.
I don't think this has much to do with it
It didn’t matter for Cliff Lee when he went back to Philly.
It didn’t matter for Andre Dawson when he handed the Cubs a signed blank contract and let them determine what was appropriate.
Lee to Philly is a bad example
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
The Philly deal was more AAV
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Not really the Yankees offered 132 for 6 years with a 16 million dollar player
option The Phils offerer 5/120 with a 27.5 million dollar vesting option/12.5 million dollar buyout so one is auguabl 7/148 while the other is 6/147.5 best case 5/132 at which point he is Carps age
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
They're not considered THE best.
It’s hard being at the top.
I know Albert’s age is a factor, but symbolically, this is THE contract that can set the market for many years to come. Deny if you like, but there’s going to be a lot of pressure on him from his peers. Not quite the same as Andre Dawson, esp. since the MLBPA is much, much more powerful now. And it’s not as if Cliff Lee took a huge pay cut—not a $30 million cut off the top.
I call BS on this
Let’s all feel bad for Albert, because he had to choose between $220M and $250M? Really?
Lee was arguably one of the best free agents that year, and he didn’t go after the big fish. By your argument, he would have been just as pressured to take the highest dollar, being one of the best in that particular class.
Again, not saying Albert deserves sympathy
Anyone deciding between $220 mil and $250 mil needs no sympathy.
Just saying that if he decides to take a $30 million bath to stay in StL, he’s impacting a lot of people. And those who are impacted would certainly be aware of it.
The MLBPA did not dictate where Pujols went.
If you believe this, Pujols would have accepted the larger Marlins deal over the Cardinals deal. Then, along came the Angels and went even larger. To his credit, Heyman tweeted that folks close to Pujols thought it would take $40MM more to get Pujols to sign elsewhere. Pujols got it and left. If the MLBPA were calling the shots, it would be pushing him to take the largest offer. The union was probably about No. 77 on the list of considerations.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Never said they would dictate it
they legally cannot. But to dismiss it as a factor would be naive, I think.
I'm not dismissing it as a factor.
I’m saying that it is so far down the list of factors that it’s insignificant in comparison.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Fair opinion
I may be overstating it, but I believe I’m not in my own head, which makes me happy, of course.
Would it be unreasonable to expect a significant decline in business there?
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
not at all
ate there once, just because it was Albert’s place. Will never step foot in the place again. (Food wasn’t that good anyway)
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
if you enter a credit card number with a $250,000,000
Max, does the website respond?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 8, 2011 12:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
i'm shocked, stunned & saddened
on multiple levels. it’s a shame that money won out over integrity here. i kinda figured this day would be coming, and in a way it’s a good thing, but at the same time, it sucks.
if albert really bolted, i’m shocked he said he wanted to be back in STL all year and then said no. at least when lebron left cleveland, he didn’t say he wanted to be in cleveland for the rest of his career before leaving for miami.
this really sucks… but, on the bright side, at least he didn’t cripple the team by the contract. farewell, albert. best of luck in LA.
THEY DID IT FOR TORTY! 2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
twitter
What does integrity have to do with anything
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
how is this about a lack of integrity on alberts part?
you wouldnt change jobs for a 25% raise?
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
if i liked it to the point that albert did with the cardinals
i would’ve stayed. staying when something’s good is the right thing to do.
THEY DID IT FOR TORTY! 2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
twitter
maybe he didnt like it anymore.
maybe everything around him changed. maybe his mentor left. maybe hes always wanted to live in california. making moral judgements is dubious.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
don't begrudge any player for taking the money
Baseball is a business, like everything else.
As someone else said recently, I like my job. But if I get an offer to work somewhere else for 40% more than I’m making now, I’m taking the new job.
I mean, I disagree that this decision shows a lack of integrity
but comparing one of us taking a pay raise is not a 1-1 comparison to Albert taking a pay raise.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
It's not a 1-1 comparison, no
On the other hand, we just don’t know exactly what kind of different 30 or 40 millions dollars could make to someone, even if he’s already a millionaire. The opportunity cost of passing up the Angels’ offer is enormous.
40% of your salary
is probably much more meaningful to you than an increase in salary to someone making the kind of money that Pujols makes.
50 million dollars is meaningful to anyone. even oprah.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Although if you were moving from STL to Orange County you would want at least a 40 percent increase
I took about a 30 percent pay cut to move from Orange County to Denver.
Ugh, don't remind me
I’d take a 30% cut to go back to Denver from Chicago in a minute
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 8, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
don't like paying $7 for a CAN of shitty beer at a bar? heh
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Streets of London pub on Colfax has 1$ cans of beer tonight
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
correct me if i'm wrong...
but due to the NBA contract rules, Miami couldn’t really “outbid” cleveland for lebron. Lebron pretty much left purely on a “cleveland vs. miami” basis, rather than for more money.
albert done got paid… don’t be pissed at him because some team was willing to overpay him
by duncans_army on Dec 8, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Very good point
Although I don’t know for a fact off the top of my head whether the Mavs and Heat were essentially offering him the same contract.
This is certainly one of the worst
Days of being a cardinal fan since whatever the Hell happened at the end of 2004. I’ve pretty much blacked that out, I just remember being really sad.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 8, 2011 11:51 AM EST via mobile reply actions
yeah too bad they canceled the series
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Yeah, I can't totally be bummed out
Since the Cardinals just won their second World Series in 5 years… that was pretty awesome. Albert’s 2 years older than me, so he’s been a Cardinal pretty much my whole adult life and I’ve loved watching him, so of course I’m sad… but we’re the defending world champs and I’m ready to see what’s next.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
No, I distinctly remember the Red Sox sweeping the Cardinals in the 2004 World Series.
My Red Sox fan neighbor got to go to the stadium and celebrate.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Dec 8, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
you're doing that thing (there's some psychological name for it) where you invent memories to fill a blank space
i promise you, they cancelled the World Series that year
fritz and the continental struggle mightily
to revise history.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
to be honest, I'm tired
of the reviling/ denial of ‘04. That was, still, the best year of baseball i’ve ever been privy to watch. and, yes, that team should have taken it all, but until the last 4 games of the season, they represented themselves remarkably; and, losing to a red hot, “destined” team is nothing to be ashamed of. I mean, really, would anyone have beaten the sawks after what they did to their arch rival? tip your hat, and get over it. That ’04 team and that season, no matter those final four games, deserve respect.
…oof. enough. there’s probably better things to rant about today.
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
by Oedipa Maas on Dec 8, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Albert just saved me a bunch of money
He was the one guy I thought it was safe to buy merchandise of because he wasn’t like every other baseball player and would be an icon of this franchise for a long time.
So, now I don’t have to blow money on Pujols Authentics and other Pujols specific merchandise. It can all go in a nice little box in the basement and I can not care what one specific player does, rather what the team does as a whole.
Albert Pujols isn’t Cal Ripken Jr or Derek Jeter or Tony Gwynn. He’s Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr. Great players, but not icons.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 8, 2011 11:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions 4 recs
I think Griffey
Knows he made the wrong choice. The Bonds/A-Rod are remorseless robots.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 8, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno
I think most Giant fans would consider Barry Bonds and icon up there with McGraw, Ott, Stargell, McCovey, and Mays.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
This.
I know this is mega long but it’s highly relevant; a friend of mine is a die-hard Giants fan and I asked him what it was like to have Bonds on his team:
Mostly really cool with some not so cool.
I know this might come off as douchey but I kind of preferred watching the pre-steroid Bonds. Not because of any moral qualms – any doubts we had about the man and his performance were trumped hard by the knowledge that the rest of the league was full of similarly enhanced players, which was itself trumped harder by our disgust at the rest of the country’s inability to recognize that obvious truth. No, it was partly because I was a little kid and everything is more amazing when you’re 8 than when you’re 16, and partly because it was, removed from the context of record chases, a more exciting brand of baseball he was playing in the 1990s. The guy fielded like Willie, ran like Rickey, and still hit 40-45 jacks a year. As the power numbers shot up around the league he was practically a throwback for a couple years.
Then of course he started juicing and turned into Godzilla. And sure it was fun rising to our feet every time the man walked toward the box. Obviously it was fun watching him hit home runs. It was even a marvel to watch how many balls he got to in LF after he lost his speed to age and sheer body mass, thanks to nothing but superb positioning based on what seemed like perfect knowledge of every hitter on every team in the National League. But while home runs are awesome they’re not quite as awesome as everyone thinks, and watching him murder every pitcher with the balls to face him wasn’t quite so thrilling as watching the guy who did everything better than everyone, and who could do any of those things at any time. With Mega Bonds you knew what you were getting. Walk, walk, home run, warning-track fly out, walk.
Man, did those walks suck. My worst Bonds memory is not the steroid mess, it’s not him dismissing fans (which he did frequently but less consistently than was reported). It’s certainly not him dismissing sportswriters, who I quickly grew to realize were largely petty talentless hacks who hated the games and athletes they covered. It’s not even Bonds routinely failing to run out pop flies, which cost him extra-base hits on more than one dropped ball. No, my worst Bonds memory was all the fucking walks. I hated them because they were so deflating, because of the sense of despair that set in when we remembered that Armando Rios or Edgardo Alfonzo was hitting behind Barry (“protecting” him, ostensibly), because they dragged the game out. But most of all it was that after about midway thru 2001, when teams walked Bonds the PA system at Mays Field would play the fucking Chicken Dance and the ushers handed out rubber chickens for people to wave. When this became a thing they stopped handing them out and started selling chickens at every merch stand right next to the XL #25 jerseys. And people fucking bought them, and waved them around and around, 200 goddamn times a year. And they booed when he would get IBBed with a runner on second and nobody on first like it hadn’t even crossed their minds it was possible let alone inevitable. I always hated sportswriters and out of town fans who complained that Giants fans were mindless Bonds boosters who ignored the steroids, the arrogance and everything else, or that they were yuppies who didn’t know the game and only wanted to watch Barry smack dingers. Those fucking walks were the only time I thought they had a point.
My best Bonds memory is a tie. First there’s the stretch run of the 1997 season when, after being denied the playoffs in 1993 despite 103 wins, and then after suffering through 3 losing seasons (2 in last place), we had a fucking miracle team (with the aforementioned JT Snow hitting 28 homers and winning Batman’s love for all time; that’s what I mean by miracle) that was tied with the Dodgers for first place when this game happened. (Even after the Series last year it’s still the most fun I’ve ever had watching baseball and that’s despite missing the first six innings because of school.) 12th inning, Brian Johnson homers for the sweep, puts us in first place for the first time in 49 months and the first man to greet him at the plate is selfish, aloof, non-team-guy Barry fucking Bonds. Then he gets on top of the dugout and starts pumping up the crowd and hugging the fans in the front rows. A week later when we clinched it was the same scene. Bonds on the dugout, Bonds in the stands, people going apeshit. I was at this one and we didn’t leave for 20 minutes after it ended.
The other is in August 2003, right after Bobby Bonds died and Barry took a 4-game series off to come back for the funeral. The Expos swept all four. Barry returns to the lineup for the first game against Atlanta (again, I’m there) and goes hitless (2 walks, of course) but we somehow make it to extra innings. This was back when John Smoltz was closing for the Braves, and it was easily his best year as a reliever (finished with a 1.12 ERA). But because it’s a tie and not a save opportunity Cox doesn’t bring him in; I am audibly appalled and shout my mockery from the 38th row where obviously he and his relief ace Ray King can hear me.
“Just watch. Barry’s up. You’re gonna regret this one.”
BAM. Splash hit. Game over. Barry points to the heavens and 42 thousand people know exactly why.
Two nights later, I’m watching on TV and again it’s the tenth inning. Again Bonds is due up. Again Cox doesn’t use Smoltz. Again – BAM. High, deep, outta here. Game over.
Sometimes home runs are even more awesome than everyone thinks.
You only did it so that you could wear terry underwear and feel the city air run past your body
by lunchboxbomb on Dec 8, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Wow, this was a really cool little piece
My opinion of Barry Bonds has changed dramatically over the years, and this furthers it. I know he may actually have done some shady illegal stuff, but I can forgive a lot since the situation athletes were in vis a vis steroids and the like was kind of a wacky scenario with lots of conflicting bullshit flying at them at the same time.
Thanks for sharing this, it was kind of fascinating.
Can we agree not to sign any of the big name FAs left though?
Let’s just wait and trade for someone, or go on a binge next year.
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
guys, we're worrying about all the wrong things...
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR HIS RESTAURANT?!?!?!!?!?!
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 11:54 AM EST reply actions
rename it
the holliday 7
Bursting into song.
by Aranathor on Dec 8, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
will the farmers ..........?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I can see the ad now...
Come get a Coors and a shot at Matt Holliday’s new Westport restaurant, Farmers Fetus!
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
i could get down on this.
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Jim Edmonds would like you to know about his fine establishment.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Renamed to Schu 55
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Waiter?
There seems to be grit in this soup.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Dec 8, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll serve it
To Mr. LaRussa and his pets.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 8, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I guess I am just grateful it was the Angels
And not the Cubs
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 8, 2011 11:55 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It's true what they say
It can always be worse.
I guess that’s some consolation . . .
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
Cespedes suddenly becomes more appealing
not sure I like going after an unproven international player, but a quarter billion dollars just fell into the front office’s lap
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 8, 2011 11:57 AM EST reply actions
obviously
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 8, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
per unicorn
Source: Marlins’ offer, including tax ramifications, exceeded total value of Angels’ winning bid, which is believed around $255M.
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Pujols never seemed that smart to me
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
This, the way he dismissed the Lozano allegations, the Glenn Beck thing, and other little things
He just seems focused on baseball and a little naive
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
But its about RESPECT ok
The HIGHEST NUMBER in the headline, not ACTUAL money
Anyone who measures respect by money
…probably does not understand what true respect is.
Danny Lo is getting his % from the highest nominal bid
so he might have nudged him a little bit
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
He lives!
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 8, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
i dont see how this can be true.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
This AL West race is going to be epic...
The Rangers “dynasty” may have just ended a litlle prematurely.
Sign Roy O
maybe, maybe not
the phillies and red sox were inked for the WS last year.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
NEw Offseason plan.....
Take the supposed $220 Mill we were gonna give Lebron 2.0 and get a DNA sample from Stan……then CLONE HIM……multiple times over and breed an army of Musials with superhuman powers…….and win for the next 25 years…..
I still maintain Vladimir Konstantinov got what he deserved...If you can't handle that then kiss my ass......
"I've got a bad feeling about this..."
Think of all the positions they could play
Stan was fast, and he started out as a pitcher. I like this idea, a lot.
Hell, according to some news story I saw recently we’re “five years away” from bringing back the woolly mammoth. Make it happen, MO.
@DKnobler:
Heard that Cardinals had Stan Musial call Pujols to try to encourage him to stay.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
oh that's a misuse of the Stan...
he doesn’t need to sully himself in this business.
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 8, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe Stan is, you know, a fan
I would’ve called too if it would have helped
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Dec 8, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This whole thing worked out perfectly...
the party was over once his original contract ran out. There was no sensible way for us to keep him – even 8/190 would bring ruination to the team. The FO will take no flak for failing to sign Pujols, we have $20 million to spend this year and $40 million for next year. And to top it off we have multiple replacements for first base.
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 8, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, the FO will take
flak, it’ll just be thoughtless flak.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 8, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
i think what stings is that players like Pujols don’t come around that often and I think we’re not upset about losing his production but rather losing the production on top “he’s the greatest player in baseball (as of right now) and he was a career cardinal”
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Involving oneself in negotiating a contract to play baseball can "sully" someone now?
They weren’t negotiating a contract for a mob hit.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 8, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
LoMoGoHoRo 4-0
LoMoMarlins
The real winner is the gov. In the Pujols signing. Cali is taking 25m and Feds are taking 80m. We might be getting out of the deficit sooner
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 8, 2011 11:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
If Pujols pays that much...
his accountant should be flogged.
I think I read something in the NY Times that the 1% pays around 17% fed tax rate, lower than the overall average for all Americans.
Sign Roy O
Why would we trust LoMo's accounting?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
it's called aggressive tax planning.
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
the 1% mostly don't have a $25m salary
gotta keep salary low, generate most of income from capital gains which are taxed at lower rate
i think you're confusing income tax w/ overall tax rate
people of that wealth level often derive an large amount of their net gains per year from investment income, which will often be taxed at lower rates for various reasons depending on what their money is doing. Albert is being PAID an income of 25 million a year, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the INCOME tax on that is is actually that high- i’d actually be surprised it’s that low.
his marginal tax rate is 35%
he probably just has enough deductions, etc to make it look like he’s paying only 15-17% of his “gross income”
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
i'm unaware of how exactly income tax works
are different chunks of your income taxed at the different tax rates, or is your entire income taxed at your top bracket rate? i assume the former, since it makes sense, but given how this country works i wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the latter.
different chunks are charged at different rates
that’s what they mean when they say “marginal tax rate.” Over a certain amount of income, your money will be charged at 35%, the top marginal rate, but no higher.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
it's income over 1 million,
so most of his pay will be taxed at the top marginal rate (10% for california). only 4% of his income is below 1 million, and that will be taxed at lower rates.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
it's the former, yes.
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Wrong 35% will be his Federal Liability
Cali will take their cut too
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
yeah...
and cali’s cut will be an itemized deduction on his federal return.
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
yes.
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
from his income, i should say.
it’s not a tax credit, simply a deduction.
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
yeah this makes sense now. sorry. i'm all over the thread right now.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
well that hasn't stopped tax law before...
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
i'm feeling really smart right now!
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Right so instead of paying 35% on 25 million
he will pay 35 percent on 22.5 million as Cali has a 10.3 top marginal rate
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
a lot less after deductions, but yes.
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Heh
I was just about to make a comment along the lines of “damn fang, you’re looking pretty smart to me right now”
i'm currently putting the finishing touches on my tax class...
so yes, it’s RIGHT in my wheelhouse.
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Well, Pujols will certainly be getting a huge charitable deduction, not to mention the residency situation.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
yeah....to 30%
so pujols could still get away with a $5-6 M deduction
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
huh..thought it was a lot less
but Tax I is in the distant past for me…two semesters ago.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
Thats because most income on wealth is taxed as Capital Gains
not salary
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
The NYT is full of it.
The effective Federal tax rate is 30% in the highest brackets, all taxes included.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, I meant to put a ~ in front of that 30%
it fluctuates depending on if you’re looking at the top 20, 10, 5, or 1. But past the top 20% or so it sticks in the high 20s to lower 30s, depending on the year obviously.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Why do you keep saying "wat"?
Can I help you with something? Or is this a statement of disbelief?
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
If it's the latter, I posted links to the CBO's numbers below.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
From the Congressional Budgeting Office's own numbers, btw.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
again- you are reading this wrong
~17% is an accurate representation of what the top wealthiest people in this country actually pay. it’s not income tax.
Exactly
Because most wealthy people don’t have jobs that make money through capital gains
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 8, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
And not just capital gains
Creatively constructed investments designed specifically to skirt the tax system. And it’s not really a “fixable” system, it’s a fundamental problem with taxing investment income: finance people can create a class of not-really-that-complex investments to “beat” it.
Not afraid to nitpick
Getting rid of investment taxes altogether
and just taxing everyone at one rate on a progressive scale due to income would solve this problem tomorrow. Relatedly, we would have fewer asset bubbles and more direct investment in equity rather then investment in derivative instruments that make money based on leverage and not equity.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Have you read any of the stuff about a progressive consumption tax?
When I first heard about it i thought it sounded like the stupidest thing ever, but some of the proposals are a bit more coherent.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
////////POLITICS
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough.
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah read the Darwin Economy
I would be all for this style of setup, and think it would add incentive to saving which on the whole is healtier for an economy
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
As far as I know, no specific politicians are behind progressive consumption tax.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Would simplify the tax code too
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
Sorry, I didn't see your post before I typed this one, but I think you are misreading me actually.
I AM saying it’s the overall effective tax rate. I said “effective tax rate”, AND “including all taxes” in my OP. I am not talking about income taxes or any other specific tax. I’m speaking of the overall EFFECTIVE Fed tax rates according to the CBO. I’ll try to find a link.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Here's the first one I found. It has the data from 1979-2001
I think it has gone down a couple of percentage points since 2001, but not all that much. It’s still around 30%. Also, I should add before I get called out that I meant to say ~30% in the OP. I’m aware that it says ~28% or w/e for the top quintile in here. If I find a more up to date one I’ll post it, but the CBO website is hard to navigate.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
yeah- no worries, i am familiar with the hassle of the CBO site
thanks- these numbers are different than what i expected to see. i appreciate it.
Yea, no worries.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
You're probably right though, that they don't get hit with income taxes the same way.
I have no idea what taxes they’re getting hit with to make up for it. Maybe it’s in there somewhere.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
i would assume the numbers the NYT are using try to account for sheltered money that isn’t being reported or whatnot- i read that article that was referenced, but not particularly recently. i would tend to trust the CBO numbers more, myself, and like i said- i am surprised their estimate of the effective rate is so high. i imagined it would be significantly lower.
Here's one in a different format with the same data up through 2005.
Same stuff basically. Top Quintile pays 25%, Top 1% pays 31%. I know they have the data through 2007 or so, but who knows where they keep it.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, posted that before I saw your previous reply.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
The highest stated rate is 35% (I think)
the NYT was talking about what actually is paid – effective rate. But you probably can’t get it this low without a lot of income coming from cap gains, as previously mentioned.
Sign Roy O
I said this was the effective rate. See my reply to zachattack above.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
You're thinking income and pre deductions.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Again, no I'm not.
Please see the links I posted for tehzachatak.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
But Pujols will pay significantly more than that,
because his salary is classified as earnings, not carried interest or investment income. That’s where the 1% make out — the capital gains rate.
Pujols will pay the max rate (currently 35%) on his annual salary.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
So has there ever been a case where a player agrees to sign, then changes his mind?
Not expecting it, just curious because until the ink is on the paper, nothing’s really final
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 12:03 PM EST reply actions
Don't they sign pre agreements?
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
There's probably a signed offer sheet with the general provisions that have been agreed upon
and they will hash out the contract provision by provision in the coming weeks.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Plus, there's a uniform contract that will cover
about 95% of the contract language anyway. They just have to draft the specific provisions that aren’t standard.
Twitter for even more of my crap.
by Big Blue Barrister on Dec 8, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
They may already have the specific provisions drafted.
It was 48 hours of negotiations.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Bittersweet...
I’ve been against signing him for a long time due to dollars, decline, and the team’s future. Still, it’s going to feel odd watching the team send someone else to first base every game. I’m both elated and disappointed.
Can't wait...
….to get Matt Holliday’s quote on this. Seemed like he wanted AP to stay, and he’ll be frank about him chasing the cash.
Holliquote
Man, Albert was such a dick. Like this one time, me and Lance were going to have some smokes behind the bleachers after practice and Albert totally grassed us up to Tony
Bursting into song.
by Aranathor on Dec 8, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
and another one
So you’re telling me there’s a chance I can have my old number?
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
oh shit, that's right
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
is that CJ Wilson on FESPN?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
he can still wear a red glove.
he also says that’s sexy for pitchers.
It wasn’t even night-and-day… it was like weekend-and-midweek.
he is a tad entertaining, this fellow.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
CJ Wilson is now talking burritos with Kruk.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Guys, about the search function....
TBender, fang, et al
Will one of you please describe the issue and send it to support@sbnation.com? If you do this, it will get placed in the support queue and I can attach myself to it.
will do! thanks!
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Can that email address handle the list from Y2S?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
i'll leave it to clank
i’ve had entirely separate computer problems. (and time problems)
also i don’t want to get the email back that this is a feature, not a bug.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I just texted my wife that Albert was gone and the Angels and Marlins are racing to be the Philadelphia Eagles
She replied
“I’m not sad to see him go. We had him through his great years for cheap and now we have more money to play with”
I love her beyond words
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 8, 2011 12:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Albert doesn't drink, right? I have no idea why we trusted him in the first place.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 8, 2011 12:06 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I just want to get this out there:
Of the two members of our organization that we lost this week, losing Jeff Luhnow is probably the biggest loss for our organization. For proof, go look at our Top 20 prospects in 2007 and then our Top 20 prospects in 2012.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
I wish he could stay until after the draft.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 8, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I'm hoping that a lot of the 2012 draft prep-work was done a while ago by him
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
i agree with this very very much
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Tsk! You're using counting stats
if you are just counting prospects. How many wins above replacement is he as compared to other player procurement executives?
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
Meanwhile...I'm going to be positive because I'm wearing an awesome tacky Christmas sweater!
AND it has Cardinals on it…so there!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
by ClemsonGirl on Dec 8, 2011 12:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Rec to try to stay positive
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Vivaelwaino
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
I think it's quite possible that he doesn't change SN's
and he just changes sites instead. He’s a cali kid after all….
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Pujols can't even pull a LeBron and say it was about winning
because We just won the WORLD SERIES
Led by our star firstbaseman
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 12:07 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
OUCH
getting back to the simple life
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 8, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
And Sally Draper Carpenter!
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 8, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
she never GAF about that other guy anyway
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In that case,
that fat kid she’s hanging out with is totally fucked when Carp finds out what is going on. Stay away from the closet with the suitcases, kid.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
I started to make the LeBron comparison earlier...
But LeBron at least could make legitimate points about supporting cast and no rings. Albert can’t make either.
Rec’d for that trophy! :-D
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I do wonder what BS reasons Pujols will come up with at his presser
he cant just say, “well, they offered me a shit ton of money.”
I'M GOING TO DISNEYLANGD!
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 8, 2011 12:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
You know Tom, he really is.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Not pictured: Albert Pujols.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
VEBNN news break
Albert Pujols to Angels
CJ Wilson to Angels
Jeff Luhnow to Astros
Allen Craig rehabbing his knee
Dotel to the Tigers
And I believe… 6 total draft picks?
This all correct?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
You missed the most important part
The Cardinals drafted outfielder Erik Komatsu in the Rule V draft
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 8, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
oh crap, I *did* forget that.
i think i fail at spelling it on the fly.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
And Shooter Hunt!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
/throws up a little
/rinses mouth with draft picks
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
don't forget
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by hangingfromatree on Dec 8, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
oh, another item I forgot
Ryan Franklin to Cardinals.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
there was also something about arbitration.
but everyone was laughing too hard for me to actually figure that out. so maybe someone can pick that up.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
they talked to the co-owner
“first and foremost we’re baseball fans”
I love st louis
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Dec 8, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
owner says pujols 5 remains that if he keeps 5 in la
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
GOTDAMMIT. CJ Wilson just said St. Louis was on the list.
partly because of Pujols.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It's OK guys
we’ll just do what we did last time and trade for Will Clark.
Twitter for even more of my crap.
by Big Blue Barrister on Dec 8, 2011 12:10 PM EST reply actions
and orange
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
and he looks a LOT bigger (and oranger) in person than he does on TV
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 8, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
What about Tony Clark
Can we get him too? And Clark Kent?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Im actually surprised, but after about an hour to process
I’m no longer that bummed. Cardinals are better off without Albert for 10/250.
I just hope the Cardinals start getting into it with some FA signings/trades soon so we have something else to think about.
The Bright Side
The legacy of Albert Pujols over the past decade+ is virtually unimpeachable, but here are a few things that I won’t miss:
- The two-hop doubleplay balls to shortstop, during which the throw beats him by 30 feet
- The standing and watching of his homeruns
- The tendency to range all the way over to the shortstop position to field a routine grounder
- The occasional idiotically aggressive base running play
- The half-jog, half-walk to first on a ground out
I know the good outweighs the bad by a ridiculous margin. Still, let us focus on these things and begin the healing…Ah, who am I kidding. This list makes me miss him all the more, for it was in his errors that he hath revealed unto us of his humanness.
by YepYouGuessedIt...CardinalRed on Dec 8, 2011 12:14 PM EST reply actions
A little write up on Erik Komatsu
Erik Komatsu: Clack’s favorite. The 24 year old left handed hitting outfielder is a recent Washington Nationals acquisition for Jerry Hairston Jr. He’s an on base player that can play all three outfield positions. Last year between Huntsville (Milwaukee) and Harrisburg (Nationals) he posted a .277/.367/.382. Komatsu walks almost as much as he strikeouts, but lacks power hitting only 7 homeruns last year. He’s not the greatest base stealer either, a lot like Hunter Pence in fact. He can steal a base but you’d rather he didn’t try to often. Defensively he’s got an accurate arm and appears to be solid at all three outfield positions. Minute Maid Parks center field may be a stretch for him but a majority of center fielders are going to be stretched out there.
What Danks isn’t Komatsu is, an on base guy. Which makes him a very good candidate to replace Bourn in the lead-off spot. He’s never played above AA but he’s also a year younger and if last year was any indication the Astros may not have a problem with that. The Astros can’t go wrong with either Danks or Komatsu both appear capable of playing the center field position and each bring something the Astros desperately need. Power and the ability to get on base.
we need to fill the aging switch hitter in RF
with another aging switch hitter. It’s important.
Something clever...
You lost me at
“left handed hitting outfielder”
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 8, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
i bet this has been said, but i'm skipping down the thread rather quickly
i think the best silver lining is that we should for sure be able to sign wainwright and yadi now, if we want to.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
God I hope we don't spend a stupid amount of money on a 31 year old catcher with 1200+ games under his belt
That would be far, far more idiotic than paying Albert Pujols $300M
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
does anyone have an espn live stream handy
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
yeah
http://den-a.plr.liquidcompass.net/player/flash/audio_player.php?id=WXOSFM&uid=296
Grit != flat out sucking.
Headline for Strauss on stltoday.
“Pujols turns his back on St. Louis.”
Stay classy Joe.
Grit != flat out sucking.
yeah
i know we’re upset about Pujols and all, but guys, it’s time to get back to what VEB really does best- hating Joe Strauss.
by tehzachatak on Dec 8, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am sure if you read the article Joe more than earns that jab
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I think that's a fair headline for an article about this topic.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 8, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Kinda the truth isn't it?
I mean, I’m all for hating on Strauss, but I don’t find that statement distasteful or inflammatory.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
that's highly inflammatory. there are a dozen other verbs which fit and don't imply abandonment.
that said, I do not think Strauss writes the headlines.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Isn't the very point to imply abandonment?
The man is physically leaving to go play for another team.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 8, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
For more money. And that’s basically the only reason.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Exactly.
“Team icon Albert Pujols left the world-champion St. Louis Cardinals and their fans to make several million more dollars in Anaheim.”
Pretty much sums it up.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 8, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW -- I think you're wrong on this one
And you’ve been awfully touchy the last couple days regarding the rhetoric around this whole negotiation. I feel like you blame the organization more than anything, and I think, in retrospect, that’s a bit foolish. I think the organization did what was best for the organization.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
that is correct, he does not. can't blame him this time.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
First act: Ban batting gloves.
Twitter for even more of my crap.
by Big Blue Barrister on Dec 8, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
we were lucky to have him this long.
He will forever be missed. 2 world series, 3 pennants, ripping out the state of Texas’s fans’ hearts (Game 6 NLCS 2005 is one of my greatest sports fan memories, topped only by this year’s game WS 6 which also doesn’t happen without him).
Good luck to him in Anaheim. Let’s show some respect to the man who brought us so many happy times over the last 11 years. He is the best player to ever play for this franchise and we were lucky to have him at his peak.
Musial is pretty definitely the best player to have played for the franchise
Pujols had a shot to pass that, but yeah…..no.
Not afraid to nitpick
Musial is Greatest Cardinal....
Pujols is the BEST player. When his career is over he will rank as a better player. He just won’t have done it all with Stl.
I'm not so sure about that. Musial is a top 10 all-time player.
Pujols has a long way to go until he’s a top 10 all-time player.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
not a long way to go
Musial didn’t put together a ten year stretch that matches pujols first 10.
No one in the history of the game has.
As I state in the main post. But there have been many Hall-of-Famers that fizzle with age. Like Foxx, for example, who were great but not top 10. Longevity is a often a part of being one of the greatest ballplayers ever.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
*game 5 NLCS '05
Game 6 was the last one @ Busch II.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
Feel sorry for you guys
Know what its like to lose a franchise player, but not like this.
Hope you do well next year regardless.
And don’t drink too much today… be safe
Rent this for cheap!!
we're fine, but thanks anyway
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
thanks bowling_guy
It will be weird but all in all the Cardinals are still awesome.
TortyCraig
My guess as to the meaning of Yadi's neck tattoos is that they are the symbols from an ancient civilization for "Caught Stealing."
World Champions...
with a CYA caliber pitcher returning to the rotation and an All-Star hitter in Matt Holliday still occupying the roster. Today isn’t the rapture.
Lefty Grove isn't interested in your pitch counts.
by mynameistyler on Dec 8, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
personally i'm starting to switch to skim
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and also a hole.
and also i was trying to be melodramatic, which i can’t do well apparently.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
If it was going to happen....
…I’m glad it happened this way. The front office demonstrated a fairly principled strategy throughout negotiations and never lost their heads in the lather of the past 48 hours, and AP was certainly in the right to take an absolutely crazy offer when it was put before him (in the American League where he can DH in the latter years of the contract). Everyone involved treated it like the “business” that it is: in some ways that is much easier to understand and comprehend than to weave together a bunch of emotional narratives about betrayal, loyalty, ego, respect, responsibility, etc. I don’t mean to suggest that those are not part of the calculus—especially at our (the fan’s) end—but for me, the substantial gap in the offers says more about the Angels than anything else, and makes it a whole lot easier to be accept the whole affair.
I wish Albert nothing but the best, and don’t begrudge him in the least (I’m sure I’ll check Angels boxscores occasionally): mostly, I look forward to a new era of Cardinals baseball and a continued run of success with a cast of exciting young players.
by RobbingGormanThomas on Dec 8, 2011 12:19 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Boggs just said he would go to Siberia for 250 Mil on KFNS.
by swmrnbk on Dec 8, 2011 12:20 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
GOB bless you, Mitchell.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
He is hilarious. Too bad I think he will probably get traded.
World Series Champions 2011. Unbelievable. Tony LaRussa, you will be missed.
I hope Luhnow's Astros crush the Angels every season of Albert's contract.
As a guy who is from SoCal and has to put up with a lot of fairweather Angels fans, this just about the worst possible team he could have signed with.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
I stopped by to see my mother at lunch
To tell her about Albert and she started crying. She said "just another example of why he was never ‘the man’ "
So, thanks for that too Albert. hmph.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 8, 2011 12:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions
My mom...
cried, too, and I think this contributed to my Dad’s growing sentiment that the American dream is dead.
Merry Christmas, I guess.
Lefty Grove isn't interested in your pitch counts.
by mynameistyler on Dec 8, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Was browsing through old essays I had to write
and I wrote one titled “Baseball Heaven.” It was about a game between the cards and cubs in 07. I found this part
Pujols was playing injured that year and everyone knew it, but he had to come through, he just had to. Albert is revered around the league as not only one of the most feared hitters to have ever played the game, a tough out, and brilliant on the base paths, but also, as clutch, no matter injured he is. His name is King Albert, The Machine and El Hombre, and he is the epitome of greatness. I had never seen a multi-homerun game live before and I was already standing, banging on the dugout with the rest of the people in my section, in anticipation of pure greatness. Swing, CRACK. Those who weren’t standing, jumped to their feet. I thought to myself, “This one was going to be close.” Going, going, gone, barely, a wall-scraper over the centerfield wall. Chicago Cubs 1, Saint Louis Cardinals 10.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 8, 2011 12:24 PM EST reply actions
I'm super late to this party
What was the Cardinals final offer for Albert?
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
Fuck.
I guess I can see why he left. This still sucks ass though. Count me as in the camp that would have paid him basically whatever he wanted.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
I am far more at peace with today's events than I ever thought I'd be
I can’t really bring myself to find fault with anyone in this situation.
Fixed
Except Arte Moreno’s accountant for being a moron.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
I'm with you here.
I can’t be mad at either side.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Matheny
Bet he is pissed. lol
Kind of kidding, but it must suck to think one minute you are going to manage a team with Albert Pujols on it, only to find out a month later that Albert is not going to be on your team.
He's probably fine with it...
an aging mega-star is not an easy thing to deal with, I would imagine.
Sign Roy O
Yep.
With Albert, it would be MM managing Albert’s team. Now he’s got a chance to make it Matheny’s team.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 8, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
he had to know this was a distinct possibility
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Let's all take a deep breath
Personally, I thank Albert for the great play for 11 years. Can’t blame him for accepting a crazy contract. I wish he could have been with the Cards for life but that’s bidniss. Now on to the 2012 season and defending the world champtionship.
And screw the Post-Dispatch for the webhead saying Albert “turns his back on St. Louis.” What a total crock of shit.
something is happening here but you don't know what it is
I will say I am impressed by the front office throughout this
They didn’t bid against themselves, they stayed in the bidding as best as they could, they didn’t mortgage the future, and their previous moves kept the team in a good place for next year (re-signing Berk and even the long term Holiday contract).
Sign me!
and our focus on trying to develop young, cheap talent for after signing Pujols.
has put us in a strong position. We have some potential studs moving through our minor league system.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
so wait
the Angels really are the mystery team??
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
so were the cubs...?
oh this is mysterious.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
if I'm the cardinals
I re-sign yadi right now. I know it doesnt help in 2012, but i’d make him th enew face quickly
because TLR
i hate to say it, but no
witness Joe Mauer.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
well, not in money
but in how that’s panning out.
I do think they need to seriously go about setting up his heir apparent, though.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
catchers age so quickly
and his bat does not play at first
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Holliday
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
McCann and Napoli are both FA next year
but McCann has a club option
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, I'd rather extend WW
(Which would still be a mistake right now I think). People of STL love WW. He will be a great face for the franchise. He can hopefully mentor Shelby.
well, in this economy
clearly this was about taking care of his family and making sure he could afford it
I have a hate relationship with the Cardinals' roster makeup decisions. | Cards on Cards
As Latrell Sprewell said.
“I’ve got my family to feed.”
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
it occurs to me
maybe he thinks the Dominican is included in his family………… oh and all the Downs Syndrome kids too.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
you mean the Down's Syndrome kids
who are all heartbroken that their favorite player just left their favorite team for money. “It’s ok, little Suzy, he’s going to donate more money to the foundation now.” They dont want more money, they want their hero.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Those kids needed to learn the lesson. Life sucks.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 8, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
on the bright side, a good chunk of VEB watched *their* final PAs for Albert in the World Series.
and a good chunk of VEB will see those flags fly.
no matter which “last one” it was.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Put me down for Pujols winning the AL MVP next year.
Not being privy to the Cards’ actual finances of course, and so based on nothing but my own opinion, I would have signed Pujols for 10yr/200MM, but I would have demurred somewhere along the way to 10yr/250MM.
So long, Bert. I was a Cardinal fan long before you, and I’ll be a Cardinal fan long after.
For Pujols, St. Louis is now the Pittsburgh to San Fran for Barry, or the Seattle/Texas to NY for ARod. As time passes, Pujols will be identified less and less as a Cardinal. In the words of Ryan Theriot, it is what it is.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 8, 2011 12:38 PM EST reply actions
not to disagree with this statement
For Pujols, St. Louis is now the Pittsburgh to San Fran for Barry, or the Seattle/Texas to NY for ARod. As time passes, Pujols will be identified less and less as a Cardinal. In the words of Ryan Theriot, it is what it is.
i think it’s accurate- just want to also point out that Pujols played for the Cardinals longer than those players played for their respectively original teams.
Yes, I wasn't trying to make it a year-for-year comparison.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 8, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Not to mention,
Barry Bonds went home. When he came up, speculation always was that he’d end up in San Francisco as soon as he possibly could, and that’s exactly what happened.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
i look at it more as seaver or clemens
seaver to me is always a Met, even though he went to the Reds, ChiSox. Clemens I still look at as a BoSox despite his yeawrs in NY.
something is happening here but you don't know what it is
I'm going to be royally pissed if he goes into Cooperstown wearing an Angels uniform
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
Pull an all nighter working on a paper
last I hear no decision to be made until next week, in the 30 minutes I travel to turn in said paper the angels fan in the class is doing jumping jacks down the hall.
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
hey! A fellow bearcat!
nice to internet meet you!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
RANT
i realise that it is an error to fault a city for the quality of its sports radio programming, so hear that first.
as i was driving into los angeles for work today, i flipped on 830AM, which is where i heard the news first. i was shocked but when i heard 10/255, i could see why the cardinals lost out. i was pretty saddened but i was not angry.
then the calls started coming in.
“st louis had no reasonable expectation to retain him, los angeles is much more appealing”
“st louis will never be LA, this is where the real players come”
“if i had to play in st louis i’d want to leave for LA, too”
“albert is going to be much more appreciated here than he was in st louis”
these are perhaps the same sort of fan that comments on the post-dispatch boards, so every team has these kind of people following it.
but seriously, fuck you guys. the angels do not have the same sort of storied franchise as the cardinals. the angels were owned by disney. they were so bad there was a movie premised on the fact that the angels required real angels in order to even have a chance of being any good. in terms of fanbase, attendance is high but a great deal of the fans show up in the third and leave after the eighth.
when you ask someone in los angeles what sports team they follow religiously, it’s probably the lakers. then the dodgers. then ucla or usc. then the angels. hell, maybe the kings have a bigger following than the angels do…well, no, that’s not true.
in st louis, the cardinals are the be all, end all of sports. heck, we have fans throughout the entire midwest. we breathe baseball. it’s ridiculous to imply that los angeles is a better town for baseball, especially to imply the angels are.
whatever. this isn’t to diss the city or the fanbase. i know a lot of true angels fans™ out here. it just really stung to hear that level of ignorance from people.
i care too much right now and the whole radio thing isn’t that big a deal. not sure why i wrote this all out, but it helped to remove some venom from my system.
goodnight, sweet prince. i wish you all the best, personally, but i have to admit that i hope the rangers win the AL west for five straight years.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 8, 2011 12:38 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I hope the A's win it for the next decade
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 8, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I could actually see myself rooting for the Astros
they’ve got Luhnow after all….
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
They have Luhnow now, lol.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Ring count:
11 to 1
OR
11 to 6 (if you count the LA Dodgers)
Also do folks in the OC admit they’re from LA all the time or when it’s convenient?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
This is what gets me:
albert is going to be much more appreciated here than he was in st louis
What is their basis for that statement.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Especially considering if he goes over there and has a huge decline or blows out his elbow or knee, they will hate him
St Louis at least has some good memories of him to always appreciate.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
As a fellow SoCaler, I feel you.
It’s enough to make me want to stay in Houston for Christmas. /kidding
But I would’ve given it real though for Thanksgiving.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Dec 8, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
And, by the way,
If LA is so great, THEN HOW DID ST. LOUIS STEAL YOUR FUCKING FOOTBALL TEAM, ASSHOLES?
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
by fourstick on Dec 8, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Also, I hope he doesn't expect to win over there.
Not any championships anyway. Seems unlikely.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
in any case
there are too many celebs in SoCal for Pujols to be treated as the royalty he was in the Lou.
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
everyone jump
to overflow
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
The rest of the NL Central
How happy are the rest of the teams in the NL Central today?
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
What I am most curious about
is this is the end of medium market baseball? I know small markets have struggled, and teams like the Rays make runs every few years, but has the gap between teams like the Cardinals and the Rangers, Angels reached a tipping point?
The revenue sources some of these markets have is just incredible, a small to mid market team will never be able to keep a Pujols.
I agree
Pujols just put a nail in the coffin
by XxStLunaticxX on Dec 8, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
They might be able to for eleven years and win a couple of world series.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
it just changes the way we do business.
bigger extensions earlier to lock up players.
means more trades + extensions, gotta keep hitting in the draft.
by RedbirdAvenger on Dec 8, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
It already happened right?
Tulo, Braun, Longoria?
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 8, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Albertross!!!
thank goodness we never have to hate him for being a Card
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
What does Friends have to do with this?
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
I will always remember Albert as..
The career leader in Sac Flies.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/leaders_bat.shtml
AL vs NL
The availability of DH gives an AL team a different player to bid on. Albert with 20 games at DH a season on the front of the contract and Albert with 100 games at DH on the back of the contract is a much different player than what the cards were bidding on.
i few weeks ago some of the 18-25 YO VEBers joked that i was old when we all posted our ages
and while I dont consider myself old (34) I have lived long enough to offer some life experience as a corollary. Losing Pujols is like breaking up with someone you thought was the love of your life. You were both young and she was the total package. Insanely hot, fun to be around, great personality, unbelievable in bed, all your friends liked her and you made some incredible, unforgettable memories together. Somehow, you both grew older and life changed and you broke up. There was some animosity as there usually is with break ups, but generally speaking you were both old enough to handle it with some level of grace.
Fortunately her new BF is someone you dont know and her circle of friends is different than yours so you dont have to see her except in an occassional facebook post that ends up in someones feed you are both still friends with. When you see it, you are sad for a moment but then you remember she was yours when she was in her prime and now someone else is going to see her moving out of it and that makes you glad. You dont wish her ill, but youre thankful you met her when you did.
Now youre more worried about your own love life. Ladies substitute he for she.
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
by Stash Musial on Dec 8, 2011 1:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
More like the cardinals are the love of your life
And Pujols is the amazing breasts. Then she got cancer and had to get a double mastectomy. You were afraid you wouldn’t be as attracted to her, and you will always miss the way they looked, but you realize you love Jenny for her personality. I mean the cardinals. I mean you loved the cardinals for the breasts…I mean…you know what I mean. Love
"And that youngster will leave the stadium with a souvenir today. Not a ball, but a nice looking bruise."- Mike Shannon
by wizard11 on Dec 8, 2011 1:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
what the fuck
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
some people would say that often it is okay for some people to make comparisons like this
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
i actually want to flag this. it is incredibly, incredibly offensive and awful
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
i think i have only flagged someone like once.
i always worry that i am being oversensitive.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Don't be.
If the mods don’t agree, they’ll just leave it be. No biggie.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Dec 8, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
This might sound ridiculous but I don't feel that much love for Albert
As a player, he was amazing. For the charities he cares about, amazing. But I got on field passes that my brother in-law won at a charity auction and I asked Albert to sign a baseball that Red Scheondienst had just signed and he said, “no, you want my signiture, get a ball for just it. I’m not signing that” and I said “but I don’t have another ball” and he said “you don’t get a signature then” and turned around to walk to the clubhouse. Despite everything good that he has done and how he has shaped so many happy memories for me, he will always be an asshat, because of that moment. You don’t disrespect Red and you don’t turn down a loyal fan because you don’t sign balls with hall of famer’s signature already on it…unless you are an ass hat
"And that youngster will leave the stadium with a souvenir today. Not a ball, but a nice looking bruise."- Mike Shannon
by wizard11 on Dec 8, 2011 1:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions
plays like the first to third to throw out Utley against the phillies earns you some leeway
PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.
I have heard/seen several things like this with Pujols.
I had a friend who used to work a lot with getting injured veterans to events, and the Cardinals, God bless them, were very good to her organization. They got field passes for the pregame several times. She told me that basically everybody in the organization would come and talk to the veterans, sign things for them, etc., but Albert wouldn’t look at them, stop to talk to them, nothing. I saw it once myself when I went along. Yadi, Waino, Tony, etc… all of them at the very least stopped to shake their hands or say hello. Albert walked right by.
Again I’ll say though – I don’t hate Albert. He was our guy in StL, and him signing elsewhere doesn’t make him a different guy. He did a lot of good for charities and was a hell of a ballplayer. He could be aloof at times too. I really think it got to the point where he sees it as just a business now. It was all part of the package here, and it will be there too.
by u2nspenserfan on Dec 8, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Busch III?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
According to the Kings of Leon it is your sex
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
reply fail
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
More like comes out of his SHELL. HA!
puns
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
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