valuing molina
by tom s. on Dec 31, 2011 4:19 AM EST
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fyi - if you didn't see this article, it's worth checking out. nominally, it's about cardinals "quirkiness" which seems to be a synonym for "crappiness (except for ray lankford) within the last 20 years."
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some time ago, bj rains idly speculated about yadier molina's next contract. shortly thereafter, several cooler heads prevailed and noted that rains was predicting a historic contract for molina, relative to other catchers. see below for a collection of catchers who have managed to score an eight-figure average annual value in free agency.
historically best compensated catchers (AAV)
jorge posada - $13.1m (2008-11) [career wOBA .366]
ivan rodriguez - $10m (2003, 2004-07) [.343]
joe mauer - $23m (2011-18) [.377]
jason kendall - $10m (2002-07) [.333]
jason varitek - $10m (2005-08) [.336]
mike piazza - $13m (1999-2005) [.389]
arguably, molina is difficult to fit into this matrix - or really, difficult to calculate his value at all using the tools available to us. molina is a defense-first catcher by conventional wisdom. and the biggest weakness in conventional WAR is an inability to capture catcher defense.
on the offensive side, molina's career wOBA is .310 according to fangraphs. while his offensive production has improved substantially, he still has a projected .320 wOBA according to Bill James - which is a rough way of addressing some up-and-down recent seasons.
so, our dilemma is that molina is nowhere near an offensive comp to the most well-paid catchers out there, but we have no way to really assess how his defensive value compares to that of the other best-paid catchers. since molina is working on a $7m option, it seems very likely that molina will make more than the $7m in the option.
whatever one thinks of molina's defense, it seems fair to say that any defensive superiority on molina's part does not make up for the offensive gap between him and joe mauer. so, given the salary precedents above, it seems like we're likely talking about something in the vicinity of $10-$13m in AAV for yadier's next contract.
the other question to think about is the aging curve for molina. he'll be in his age-30 season next year, so we're likely talking about putting him under contract for his age 31, 32, 33, and 34 seasons. you might have noticed that some of the contracts above turned out . . . well, kinda terrible.
there's a limit to how much looking at these aging curves will tell us, especially because yadier molina's value lies primarily in his defense. just as there's no good way to measure catcher defense last season, there's no good way to measure it over a career arc. and there's no particularly good reason to think that catcher defense varies at the same rate as offense.
still, even if we're measuring aging curves imperfectly, it might be interesting to see what comes out of a review of WAR from age 26-29 and 31-34 for these players.
jorge posada - 11.4 (fWAR age 26-29)/17.9 (fWAR age 31-34)
ivan rodriguez - 23.4/16.3
jason kendall - 13.5/7.0
jason varitek - 5.8/12.3
mike piazza - 25.9/17.9
sorry - at this point i lost the rest of the draft post due to a computer snafu. to sum up the basic findings, all of the highly-paid guys listed above caught 1000-inning seasons through their early 30's, generally seeing decline in durability only in age 35, 36, or 37 season. in fact, of the highly-paid catchers, the only big standout in terms of subpar innings was joe mauer, who has only put together 2 1000 inning seasons thus far. while such a small cohort is not scientific, i don't see an obvious problem in anticipating that yadier will be more or less capable of keeping up 1000 innings through age 34, though the increased risk associated with a fifth year is probably substantial.
even though the above stats show a mixed result in terms of total WAR, we still should probably expect his offensive production to decline more or less linearly like other hitters. that is, yadier will probably be worth about 2 wins less with the bat in his age 34 season. in other words, by 2016 we will be paying yadier almost exclusively for his defense.
and therein lies the rub. we can only guess what his defense is worth now, much less what it will be worth in 2016. as a shot in the dark, i'd bet he'll be worth at least a win, probably 1.5 wins. 2 wins? 2.5?
depending on how optimistic you are about his defense, the contract obviously becomes more defensible, or even a bargain. generically speaking, a 4y/$40m contract or maybe even a 4y/$48m contract would seem reasonable, and outstanding in terms of AAV for catcher contracts. i'd avoid any substantial entanglements beyond 4 years without a significant discount for the risk.
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4/40 was exactly the number I was thinking, tom
although if it’s much more than that I’d be happy to see him leave. As I see it, we’re basically gambling on the value of his defense. If we simply assume (as the current iteration of WAR pretty much does) that Yadi is only slightly above average defensively, then he’s probably about a 3-3.5 WAR guy now (last four years: 2.7, 3.5, 2.4, 4.1).
Your assumption that he’ll lose about 2 WAR in his bat over 4 years is pretty much in line with the rule of thumb that most players lose about an average 0.5 WAR/yr, post-peak, in the average ageing curve. That means you’re looking at him producing 3, 2.5, 2 and 1.5 WAR (ish) over the course of a four year deal, for a total of 9 WAR. As that’s worth about $45m or so, the $40m-ish deal works well. However, if you assume he’s a better defender than WAR thinks (which I’d think is probably the case), that’s looking like a much stronger deal for us.
As far as I can see, there’s a reasonable evidence that, in actual fact, catcher might be very important defensively, and that Molina is one of the best out there – see http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/catcher-defense-2010/ for general pitch blocking/controlling the running game and http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/evaluating-catchers-framing-pitches-part-3/ for framing. If he’s, say, a +20 defender, rather than a +5 defender, you’re getting a pretty massive bargain with this deal.
My only concern is his body type and the large number of innings he’s caught (most in baseball IIRC in the last 4 years). I think if we hedge the possibility of dramatic decline against the possibility that he’s actually worth a lot more in terms of defense than WAR would suggest, then the 4 year, 40-45m deal sounds about right.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 31, 2011 7:42 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree
My only quibble is the uncertainty of Yadi’s defense. Because we have no reliable stats, we assume we can’t tell how valuable he is? I’ve been watching baseball for a long time and Yadi is very good. He’s johnny bench good defensively. Teams don’t run on him and he is wicked good at picking off people at 1b (we’ll see if Lance can be his partner there). Game calling is hard to tell given how much DD and TLR run a game.
As far as aging, you have his older brothers to go by which would indicate he would hold up well.
I’d be happy extending him to even 5 years — especially with very little in the system. Would like to see Yadi finish in a Cards uniform. Show him some respect, Mo!
Just win
I like Molina also
He is the best I’ve seen in the years I’ve followed the Cards but I don’t give much more than a modest edge over Matheny, Mc Carver or Del Rice.
Molina is 5’ 11" 230 pounds and already slow . To me That warns of a quick decline at about 33 years old. I would be hesitant on over 4 years. As far as “nothing in the system” I think I see and I imphasize, think, (SSS) a fine rising catcher in Tony Cruz.
what I mean is that we can't quantify how good he is.
We can probably safely say he’s very good, that he’s among the best defensive catchers, if not the best.
What we don’t know is how much being very good defensively is worth.
That is, if you wanted to trade yadier straight up for a defensively-average catcher (ignoring issues like age and contract), how much better would the other catcher have offensively to make the trade fair? Would it be fair if he was a .360 wOBA hitter? .370? Right now, we can only guess.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 31, 2011 11:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yup. SABR has been trying to quantify catcher defense for a while
This reminded me of a 2006 BP article saying that yadi simply eliminating the threat of a runner has a lot of value.
Side note: Personally, as much as I want to believe it as I played catcher for +16 years, “handling the pitcher” and “calling the game” at the profesional level probably has nowhere near the value people think.
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
I'm guessing Yadi has at least some impact and value on the pitcher psychologically
They probably don’t worry so much about any runners reaching base because they know he has a good chance of throwing them out. Not saying it’s anything substantial but I definitely think it exists somewhat.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 31, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
BP covered that whole "pitchers pitch differently" with a stolen base threat on
in their book and couldn’t come up with anything. Has someone found a real correllation or are we still in intangible land on that one?
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Hmmmmm interesting
It’s funny how many of these storylines that former players trumpet, i.e. pitching differently because of a base runner, that are now being proven wrong or at least not finding evidence of with advanced research.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 31, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
They do pitch differently
if I am remembering the findings correctly it is just that it doesn’t make the hitter any better or worse.
I thought the conclusion was,
the pitcher is worse- throws less strikes etc, but the hitter is also worse because he is more likely to swing at crap trying to get his RBEYEZZ!!.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I, personally
would go with the offensive catcher if he could do three things: 1 catch the ball, naturally, 2-have a strong enough throwing arm that average runners don’t run on him and 3- be able to block balls in the dirt.
Blocking ball in the dirt and handling wide pitches is a duty a catcher has to handle.or he should be behind the plate even if he can hit .340.
I tend to use the FSR
from Tom Tango’s site for things like catcher defensive ratings. Actually, I use it for all positions ahead of metrics like UZR. I just don’t trust the input data used for today’s fielding metrics. I would much rather trust a network of human brains and take my chances. That being said, Yadier Molina rates as the second best defensive catcher in MLB on the FSR. My studies have shown that such a rating translates to a 15+ runs saved on the scale we are use to seeing.
interesting point
lance is left-handed so it might be a little more difficult
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
I'd go up to 5/55
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 31, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
I would too.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
He is so slow now
he wont be able to move in 5 years. he will be a designated catcher…not required to run.
by setitan on Dec 31, 2011 5:49 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
in 5 years he'll be a free agent again so it won't matter.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he was born in 1983
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 31, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
true
but he will be one of the best catchers, unless cruz is better than projected
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 3:13 AM EST up reply actions
Alan Nero...i think.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
If he gets to FA he will change agents
that will be a signal.
by setitan on Dec 31, 2011 5:57 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Why would his body type be a concern, given that he's a catcher?
This is not Craig Biggio behind the plate.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 31, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
This
I was pretty much thinking about posting this info as I read the post only to see you beat me to it. Some of the most recent attempts to quantify catcher defense have Yadi’s defense as very valuable. I still believe it’s more valuable than those attempts for a few reasons (some finer points are still unaccounted for like calling a game – which could be more valuable than anything else a catcher does – and I think pitch framing is undervalued in that article, but it is getting much closer). I think 4 at 40-45 mil would be a good deal as well. I wouldn’t mind closer to 15 mil a year on a 2-3 year deal, but the AAV needs to go down the longer the contract is.
So here's a problem with WAR as it is currently constructed.
The things that we’re learning about catcher defense (e.g. pitch framing) is actually already factored into pitcher valuations both in terms of the $$$ contracts they are getting and the WAR framework for pitchers. When studies make statements that say a catcher has added X WAR through various methods, big picture, that is a zero sum gain that has to come from somewhere else.
WAR makes some worldview assumptions implicitly (e.g. a strikeout is always the result of a pitcher and not a catcher).
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
by azruavatar on Dec 31, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
So basically
the world “win value” is all accounted for, but it’s not allocated out as accurately as it would be ideally?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Not sure why I said "world" there...
I meant more along the lines of “total” or “aggregate”.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Right.
If Yadi is helping Chris Carpenter out by getting strikes called instead of balls, that is already showing up in the defined event statsitics of Chris Carpenter. Untangling that interdependency is extremely difficult, imo.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Same here
Though it’s basically the same thing that DIPS tries to do, it’s just much harder to do it for catchers, apparently, than for the other defensive positions.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
yeah, FIP is nice because it eliminates stuff that is influenced by fielders
but as we know (now), K and BB rates are influenced by catchers as well.
I think we first need to study if the catcher framing metrics are actually accurate, and then try to separate catcher framing from pitching.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
then presumably we could do some sort of study of pitcher's relative values when using a catcher vs not using that catcher
and maybe be able to determine the value that the catcher adds?
that's called WOWY (with or without you)
the problem is that it captures a lot of things that don’t have anything to do with catcher framing, and those things don’t necessarily even out over time.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
so what you're saying is
since pitchers tend to work with the same catcher over a period of time, measuring their performance between different catchers tends to capture more of the difference between the pitcher’s true talent at different points in his career than the difference between the skills of the catchers involved. so the pitcher would giiiiiiive himself awayyyy. and he gives. and he gives. and he giiiives himself awayy.
If pitch framing is so important (up to a win for the very best catchers)...
why doesn’t the effect come through in CERA?
Sign Roy O
I am no expert, but I am guessing that it is still a small component of ERA
A full time catcher like Molina that catches 1100 inning and saves 10 runs (~1 win), would affect ERAs by 0.07. That is probably well within the statistical error when you compare CERA.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
this makes a ton of sense
although how to separate the catcher’s contributions from those of the pitcher sounds like a tough question. Perhaps there should be a battery WAR statistic of some sort. Then that data could be used to yield “catcher-neutral” pitching stats. For example, how good would Chris Carpenter have been for the last three years with a replacement-level catcher, etc.
It’d be an awful lot of math, though.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Uggghhhhh, just give him his money...
….we can afford it now. 4 years @ 40-44 mil seems quite fair to me. I don’t see Cruz or Anderson replacing Yadi at all, and there isn’t anyone else in the pipeline or in the FA market.
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
by The MooCow on Dec 31, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You'd have to take into consideration
who the umpire was and if it was a home/away game etc… Lots of things to account for. /ScienceProject
well shit
that’s what i get for not reading the entire thread
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 31, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, we already know that WAR/FIP isn't perfect
WAR makes some worldview assumptions implicitly (e.g. a strikeout is always the result of a pitcher and not a catcher).
The catcher framing hardly changes that. We already knew that strikeouts, walks, etc. aren’t completely in the pitchers control. This is just another adjustment we should make – it’s the same exact theory as DIPS.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I don't Yadi is a +20 defender
As I’m still very skeptical about those framing studies, but I would think he’s at least a +10 defender currently. 4/40 is a good deal, and I think we can probably get him for less.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Could you expand on what makes you skeptical about the framing studies?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
They just haven't been verified yet
We need to do some studies with the pitchers, because I could easily that pitchers (movement, etc.) have more to do with extra strike calls than catchers.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with this. Thought about bringing it up earlier.
Let’s say you have two pitchers that each throw a curveball. One throws it with more spin and gets more vertical movement on it. If both pitches cross the plate 1 inch below the zone, is one easier to frame because it has vertical movement?
I think there’s a case to be made that you should be normalizing these catcher framing values against pitch data. (Which would be a monumental task but speaks to the idea that it’s about the pitchers or the pitch more-so than the catcher.)
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Yeah, it seems like a daunting task
I don’t envy the guy who is eventually going to do it (Mike Fast).
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
the idea of valueing framing is really interesting to me
in the same way that stats capture other intangibles, wouldn’t framing be captured in stats as well? although not for catcher defense, but for pitcher effectiveness?
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 31, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
In addition to his defensive value, I think it is also hard to quantify Molina's value in working with pitchers
But, in contract negotiations it might be something that the team takes into consideration. FWIW, I hope they can work something out along the lines you are suggesting.
I've always likened Molina to varitek, for some reason
Varitek was worth ~3 WAR/year during the time period we are looking at for Yadi. I think yadi’s hit tool will not decline fast enough to overwhelm his glove tool and staff control staying static, if that makes sense. Due to this though process, i willing to go 4/$50. I totally agree with tom; we need to avoid a 5th year like the plague unless wee get it at a pretty big discount ($8M?)
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 31, 2011 9:24 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Not trying to start anything
But Varitek is not even in the same ballpark as Molina defensively.
Now he isn't.
But how do we know he wasn’t when he was Yadi’s age? In a roundabout way, I’m asking what you base this assessment on.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
especially since Mo got his stuff taken care of early
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 31, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
and I don’t buy that he’s necessarily gone if he gets to FA. The “rogue owner” who wants to “change the course of his franchise” is not going to be a factor with Yadier Molina, I don’t think.
Sign Roy O
I don't know.
I can see Pujols having a pretty strong pull with him and with the Angels catcher situation being as bad as it’s been, it’s a worry. Moreno could very easily make a strong play for him. Not sure that any other team would have that kind of a chance with him besides us.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 31, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
would their friendship even be that big of a factor?
i’d be surprised if you said yes, because it didn’t keep pujols here.
the only scenario i see in which yadi goes to the angels is if it’s about money, but that assumes Moreno would be willing to overpay for both yadi and albert. it’s definitely possible though.
by molina mo problems on Dec 31, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's one of several factors that might drive him to southern california.
Anybody who will try to outbid the cardinals will be bullish on the value of catcher defense generally, and yadi’s defense in particular.
It seems to me that trading napoli away in favor of a clearly inferior catcher shows that scioscia certainly weighs catcher defense heavily. Not that anybody saw napoli’s 2011 coming, but Napoli was clearly an offensively elite catcher even before this season.
It seems like yadi would fit scioscia’s philosophy well.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 31, 2011 3:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
we should make a deadline for extension talks
/pujols’d
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
All I have to say is
Ya-di! Ya-di! Ya-di!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 31, 2011 10:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions
What I would like to know is
What does Yadi WANT? This seems to have been one of the break-downs in the Pujols negotiations. Did Albert want years, or did he want AAV? Or did he want both? It might be that Molina would be willing to settle for a contract that pays a bit below market average, if it offers a bit of security.
For example, would the Cardinals offer a six-year deal, if it was along the lines of say $8M a year? Maybe they offer some partial no-trade options too. I’m not saying this is the best strategy, but I am curious what Yadier wants in what is likely his big payday.
by JWO on Dec 31, 2011 10:22 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yadi probably wants what we all want
someone to give us a hug and tell us everything’s gonna be alright. That plus a 5 year 10MM/year contract.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 31, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
That's what I got for Xmas
My wife took a photograph of the side of a barn that’s painted. “Everything is going to be OK” and framed it for me. Perfect gift.
Just win
Getting any extension at all
Will give Yadi no trade protection (10 and 5). So there’s a leg up the Cards have in that any other team would probably have to include a no trade clause if he wanted that part of “security”.
by Cardsray on Dec 31, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
excellent point.
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
The more I know about the Albert negotiations
the more I think that what Albert wanted was to leave.
yeah
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
evidently
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Poz wrote in November that he thought something was irretrievably broken betwenn Cards and Albert
I suspect it was their inability to get deal done before spring training.
Just win
I think 240 would have sufficed
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
There were reports that Team Pujols wouldn't go below 10 years, $270MM, IIRC.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
that's above what the Angel's offered
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Right.
But Pujols was not a free agent at that point in time. They were bilateral talks between the Cardinals and Team Pujols on an extension. I can’t find the report (or maybe it was a tweet), but apparently Pujols would not go below 10 years, $270MM during extension talks.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah, then that's ridiculous
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
*If* it's true, it's ridiculous.
But it also shows how much hot air the national baseball press was spewing when they were attempting to fault the Cardinals for not extending Pujols before he hit free agency.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Trade Yadi...
…to the Angels. Possibly at the deadline. If the Angels are in it and we have had some injury issues this would be a solid match. Let Pujols campaign for him, see if we can extract a good price.
by BigJawnMize on Dec 31, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
that would be implying we are not in the race next season
Which would be a little surprising
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 1:52 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
like BJM said tho
if all the risks we’ve taken (berk misses a lot of time, beltran misses a lot of time, craig misses a lot of time, freese misses a lot of time, carp misses a lot of time, waino misses a lot of time, etc.) get the better of us, we will end up dealers. this is worst case scenario. but if it happens, you gotta believe molina will be on the chopping block.
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Right on
I think that may be the thing mozeliak excels at is contingencies
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 2:25 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
yes, when the Cards asked TP(heh) what kind of contract they were thinking
I believe the answer was the A-rod contract.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 31, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
not when sleezano said the negotiation started at ARod's $275
how was the team supposed to negotiate when they took such a hard line?
Balls
or, or....
and this is a crazy notion, pujols just decided to take the offer that would give him much more money.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
haha...nah...that couldn't be it.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, it was all about "commitment."
Or, the most money over the longest term.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Then goddammit, why didn't he just say that and knock off the bullshit?
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
To make himself look good.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
it did while he needed it too.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
because he didn't have to say
answer questions on why he was so greeded or why he was going to leave saint louis for a full year.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
jeeez....try that again..
Because he didn’t have answer questions on why he was being so greedy or why he was going to leave saint louis for an entire year.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
he only needed it to work while he was still in stl.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
I'm talking about the bullshit after he took the Angels offer.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
oh..
well all that bullshit is just him trying to protect the lie he told for a couple years.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
it doesn't matter.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
because it clearly matters to Albert or he wouldn't have said it
and it VERY clearly matters to us fans or we wouldn’t be so pissed.
Well, all I know is that I would have reacted better if he had just taken the money and kept his (and his wife's) mouth shut
He made the situation worse.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
see, i doubt it really is this simple
at least in Albert’s head. i think his comments have shown that this is not just a simple cold economic calculation. there seems to be some sort of resentment at play (perhaps a case of familiarity breeds contempt?) and some strange money/love equivocation going on here.
right, all of the "diresepect" was caused over money
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
sure, yeah
i mean a contract discussion is about dollars. but i don’t think that he just took the Angels contract because it was a lot more. I think he took it because, over a long period of negotiations with the Cardinals he had grown resentful of the team and wanted out.
this is all completely speculative of course but that’s my working theory.
100%.
People leave jobs all the time because they feel unappreciated/disrespected or their boss is an ass. The relationship was at fault and he wanted a divorce.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 31, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
100% really?
you’re going to say that with absolutely no evidence to back it up? you got balls.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
well, can't beat this, really
none of us will know what pujols felt until he comes out and says it. i bet 50% of us or more have left jobs for less of a reason.
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
I think he had a not entirely unreasonable assumption that the Cards' final offer
was going to be something significantly higher that what it ended up being. Honestly, 10/210-220 with 30 million deferred was certainly lower than what I thought the Cardinals would end up at.
I think early on he realized this to be the case and more of a sign that the team didn’t really want him back and was just going through the motions for the fans.
I would imagine that the Cardinals saw things rather differently, and ultimately made the flawed assumption that no one was going to offer Albert anything close to the mega-deal he wanted.
Ultimately the situation fell apart because the two sides apparently went into negotiations with two very different ideas of what the final deal would look like.
i can't fault the Cardinals for being careful with Albert
especially considering how he & the Mrs are acting like they’re the victims here because they didn’t get the ARod deal they wanted.
Balls
yeah he's been acting like the team wronged him somehow
and the only thing i can think of is he was pissed he didn’t get an ARod like extension when Lego was signed
Balls
agree, lot of emotion and unmet "needs"
think the cards offered albert his future worth in their projections
as it turns out they offered albert more on a per fWAR basis than miami paid for arey and for many more years
moreno wanted a splash pr-wise, i doubt they metricians predicted a much different 10 yr performance
and i suspect the personal service contract was something moreno insisted on—i would not pay that kind of money for a player on the back end of his career unless he promised to not run back to stl when he was done playing
TLR is gone, long live the king
indubitably
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
I think the career wOBAs for some of the comps
skew the comps just a bit because of the stat-inflated times of the late nineties and early aughts. Ivan Rodriguez’ 1998 and 1999 seasons were comparable to Yadi’s 2011 by wRC+, unbelievably. In 99, Ivan had a line of .332/.356/.558, with 35 HRs.
In any event, it’s fair to say that all of those guys are still better hitters than Yadi. It’ll be interesting to see this year whether Yadi’s change in hitting profile and increased power is a sustainable and real improvement. I think it probably is, though I would still expect his numbers to go down just a bit.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 31, 2011 10:30 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
The changes in offensive environment really are stunning once you wrap your head around them
Yadi in 2011: .305/.349/.365, .349 wOBA, 123 wRC+ Average wOBA = .316
Pudge 1996: .300/.342/.373, .351 wOBA, 98 wRC+ Average wOBA = .335
In 1999 and 2000 the average wOBA (per Fangraphs anyway) was .341. It was actually pretty stable from 1993 to 1998, hovering a little over .330, then it spiked in 1999/2000, then went back down to ~.330 (but a touch lower I think than the 93-98 level) until 2010, when it dropped to .321 and then to .316 last year.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I've mentioned this before...
but if you take into account park, league, and environment, the 2011 Cardinals’ offense was historically good. I think the Cards’ team OPS+ was top 5 in NL history since 1945.
Sign Roy O
Interesting stuff.
I haven’t found a way to sort single-season team totals like that for multiple years… Fangraphs has a cumulative feature. Just for fun I ran all teams from 2001 to 2011 (The Pujols Era) and the Cards still lead in WAR during that time (Fangraphs did a story about this before the 2011 season I think and we were the “surprise” highest WAR team of the first ten years of the 21st century, and now the first eleven years). The top five is Cardinals, Phillies, Braves, Yankees, Red Sox (and then a pretty sizable drop down from the sixth place Giants onward).
One thing I noticed: during this time period, the Cardinals are the only team with a wRC+ over 100 (102 to be exact which is pretty darn high since only the Yankees and Red Sox have a figure significantly over 100) and positive numbers for both the Fangraphs defense (Fld) and base running (BsR) numbers. The only one.
As for the team offenses during that 11-year period, it goes like this:
Yankees 113
Red Sox 110
Cardinals/Rangers 102
Indians 101
Phillies 100
Every other team is below 100. So not only do the Cardinals have a unique all-around level of quality during that time, but they are also the only team in the NL with a wRC+ above 100.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Also, you might end up being right about the "top 5" bet
I went year-by-year on Fangraphs for the same period as my above post (2001 to 2011). Unless I missed something, here are the best NL offenses during that time, by wRC+:
2003 Braves 112
2011 Cards 111
2003 Cards 109
2002 Giants 109
2008 Cards 107
2007 Phils 107
2001 Giants 107
I arbitrarily stopped at 107, because, eh.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
The 1990s might contain a few teams that blow those out of the water, I dunno.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I just looked at league batting on BR and manually went back in time...
it doesn’t take long because they have a link to the previous year on each page.
Sign Roy O
Nononononono
the wRC+ means that the offense is measured against league average. So in the 1990s when Pudge was below average for posting an offensive year better than Yadi’s best by far, teams would not be that far from average unless their offense was even more ridiculous than the already ridiculous average offense of the league at large.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Thus, the 2011 Cardinals were a historically good offensive team despite the fact that they weren't really a better hitting team than the MV3 team with Walker, Renteria etc.
Because the average was higher during the MV3.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I'm aware of how wRC+ works, I just didn't bother to look through teams earlier than 2001
So I am pleading ignorance about which, if any, NL teams compare to the teams above in terms of how they compare to the league average of their (hypothetical) respective years. That’s all.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
My question for the more Saber-savvy:
Was it “easier” for an NL team to put up a wRC+ of 112 in 2003 than it is for an NL team to do the same in 2011?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Well, it depends on how you define easier.
For an NL team to put up a wRC+ of 112 in 2003 their wOBA would have to be around .360 while an NL team could do the same in 2011 with a wOBA of .336.
Kind of like the Cardinals could put up a wRC+ over 9000 in a softball league, because it measures how far they are from average instead of how good their counting stat ratios were.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Yeah, it was kind of hard to even come up with my own definition of "easier"
So I guess that’s a much more complicated question than I originally realized.
…
Wait a minute… OVAH NINE THOU-SAAAAAND????
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Dec 31, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, but as averages rise
so does variation. You typically see such trends in indivual stats (BA or home runs most notably) but the same rationale applies to team statistics.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
I thought I might have noticed a little higher variation in the eleven year look I was taking earlier
But it’s kind of a small sample, so it might not be meaningful. The top team was usually either 116 or 117 wRC+ during those year. I think in 2008 it was only 112. But the 2007 Yankees and 2003 Red Sox put up 120 wRC+.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
But since we are talking about NL offenses...
I also found the 1998 Astros (114 wRC+) and the 2000 Giants (112, which actually led all of baseball).
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
re: '11 Cards offense being historically great
there was so much roster turnover and DL time that you almost have to specify the post-Rasmus trade/postseason edition of the offense. But yeah, I think we are not likely to see an offense with the likes of Pujols/Holliday/Berkman in the middle any time soon….we were definitely privileged to watch that.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Not to mention how much better Molina was than he usually is
Craig was fantastic in a short period of time, Jay and Freese were both well above average but without much fanfare (until Freese’s post-season but that doesn’t count for these numbers), and Punto was way, way better than he usually is. All those extras add up. The Big Three on their own could not have made the team’s offense that good.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
We led the NL in almost every major statistical category.
I don’t see much of a need to specify.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, interesting...
April and September are almost mirror images of each other.
If the roster changes had any effect I suspect it was largely balanced out. Holliday and Berkman both started out red hot while Pujols struggled. Pujols really turned it on for the second half in time for those two to come back to Earth (and still be awesome, just not hitting .400 anymore). Craig was hot for spurts but had that bad injury that seemed to take forever. Somewhere along the line we acquired Furcal, who probably offset Craig’s absense, at least somewhat (though I don’t remember the specific dates involved with that so maybe not).
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Colby did most of his damage earlier in the year, so trading him away (for pitching) right around when we got Furcal
probably made our offense better at the time.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
That's something to consider
(Yadi’s ‘improved’ hitting last year). He had one of his best years with the bat (if not the best, I’m too lazy to look it up) last year so it just might be that his 0.5 WAR/yr slide won’t start until his age 32 or 33 season (probably not, but it’s something to consider).
I’d certainly be willing to go with at least an option for the 5th year, if that’s what it takes, at maybe a somewhat reduced salary over years 1-4. Maybe a mutual option so he could opt out if he wanted to.
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 31, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
It was most definitely his best hitting season
wRC+ of 123, which tops his 2009 figure of 106 quite comfortably. Those are his only two years above 100, but he had a 95 wRC+ in 2008. The improvement in 2011 was almost entirely due to extra power. Everything else about his offensive profile looks pretty close to the preceding few years.
If he could combine the power of 2011 with the walk rates of his other decent years, I think Yadi might get past 5 WAR. Then take into account the problems with quantifying defense and Yadi could actually have a pretty awesome peak.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
"Could" is an important word in that second paragraph...
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
there's nothing about Yadi's performance with the bat last year that screams "unsustainable"
except in comparison to his career numbers. What he got was a boost in power. The BABIP boost compared to his career BABIP was reflected mostly in fly balls and line drives, i.e. where you would expect to get a boost when you’re hitting the ball harder as opposed to having a lot of extra ground balls finding holes.
Compared to the last few years his BABIP doesn't look out of line at all
His career BABIP is .286, but going backwards the last four years look like this: .311, .281, .309, .310. It’s not like there is a hugely “lucky” looking outlier. His terrible BABIP in 2005 and 2006 weigh down the total also.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
the fact that it was far and away his best season ever is what screams unsustainable
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
I think his out-of-nowhere power increase and BABIP seem pretty unsustainable.
His ISO will likely decrease and his BABIP will likely decrease. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this leaves him with a .320ish wOBA in 2012.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
ZIPS projects a .330 wOBA
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
This seems largely driven by a projected increase in walk rate for Yadi.
Last season, he had a low walk rate of 6.4% (in the vein of Jay, Freese, and Schumaker). I really hope it increases by 1.5-to-2%. It will need to in order to make up for his lower BA and lower ISO.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This is what I'm really worried about
I would love if the power remains, or at least somewhat continues. But his walk rate went down at the same time his power went way the heck up. Assuming he doesn’t repeat the power (a healthy assumption) he better do other things to get on base.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Where's the out-of-nowhere BABIP increase?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
After watching ESPN for about an hour this morning
I remember why I don’t watch ESPN anymore…
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
I would prefer not to but there isn't a SBN channel so there isn't a good alternative that I know of
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 31, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Haven't see anybody talk about it
But does anybody else really love Clubhouse Confidential on MLB network. I could watch it all day! Seriously…..all day.
It's grown on me.
I wasn’t impressed when it first came out, but it’s much better than most stuff out there.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I think they also were a bit gentler at the very beginning
Maybe to ease viewers into some of the stats. Only a guess though.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I just like
how it’s mostly analytics based discussion. It’s not just guys gushing over the Red Sox and Yankees and they have no problem saying a player is going to blow ass based on projections or that a club signed a player to a terrible contract.
Slightly OT, but has anyone seen
this article in today’s PD? Seems that Albert took a $4M paycut for ‘12 going back to $16M for ’13 (so they could sign Wilson). He’ll be getting over $30M/yr in the final years of his contract.
Looks like a “win now” move if I ever saw one.
not really. maybe I should have gone with my other thought
And talked about backloading contracts.
Basically, it’s always a good idea to backload contracts. Backloading a contract is a sound financial idea, not a win-now move.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 31, 2011 11:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I recognize that
(backloading) but this seems rather extreme. Of course, I’m probably letting my familiarity with $100-120M rosters cloud my judgment too since, to me, $30M sounds like 1/4-1/3 of payroll for one player (not leaving much for the rest of the roster). I don’t know what the Angels payroll was this year, or what it looks like going forward. The $30M probably doesn’t look as big to them as it would to us.
(Also, the advantage of back-loading in the current/recent economic environment is not as high as in more inflationary times)
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 31, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
yea, hadn't thought about a more restricted definition
I wonder what the inflation rate currently is in sports contracts? Undoubtedly, as you noted, higher than general inflation.
When we were still discussing possible Albert contracts I put together a simple spreadsheet to compute present value of a contract. Unfortunately, it’s on my computer at work and I don’t have time to recreate it now. It’d be interesting to see what Albert’s LAAofA contract looks like vs. a straight $25/yr deal (depending, of course on what you use for the inflation rate).
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 31, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
This touches on it...
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/salary-inflation-estimates-for-2012/
I would think this kind of backloading shaves $15 million or more off the NPV, but that’s just eyeballing it.
Sign Roy O
neither of the models used there were very accurate
for 2011 at least. Any model that predicts deflation in baseball salaries is suspect. The actual number for average salary in 2011, 1.2%, is more in line with overall inflation than I would have suspected. Using a modest 2% discount rate, $30M payed nine years from now is worth $25+ today so, back-loading is still valuable, but not as much as traditionally. (I didn’t do a complete contract structure but you’re estimate of $15M is probably a bit low since they are “saving” $13.4M in the first year alone).
If you use a (probably) more accurate discount (inflation) rate of, say, 6%, it makes a huge difference with the same $30M now worth only $17.6M today. I wonder what model the clubs use (i.e. how they determine the expected discount/inflation rate) in calculating salaries?
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 31, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
i don't think they pay a lot of attention to the value of money
but a lot to revenue growth
if they used albert’s money to sign wilson, they did not invest it
so not really a factor in paying albert 10 yrs from now
TLR is gone, long live the king
NPV Difference is about $13M
Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue parceque je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte
... using a 5% discount rate
Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue parceque je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte
regardless, back end loading is the same as deferring money
albert deferred 25m in the first 2 yrs of the contract, and he won’t get that back for 10 yrs
not that much different from cards 30m deferred
TLR is gone, long live the king
the whole theory of why backloading works means there's no
Such thing as “extreme” backloading – at least with regard to the club, which is what you were referring to by calling it a win-now move. The club’s best interest would be to pay him a lump sum of $254m in 2021. Obviously, albert wouldn’t want that, which is why it doesn’t happen.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 31, 2011 12:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
but now that albert and moreno are such buds
i’m sure albert will renegotiate
TLR is gone, long live the king
LOLchester United
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 31, 2011 12:43 PM EST reply actions
I do this every time.
After being under the weather for a couple of days I’ll feel especially lousy, but not sick exactly. Then I realize I haven’t had caffeine in days. After a cup of coffee, all systems go.
Coffee fixes everything!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 31, 2011 12:46 PM EST reply actions
Was thinking that this morning.
Now if I can just get this fucking dog to shutup.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Also had to take a break from coffee drinking to walk the damn mutt.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
This describes the morning I had perfectly.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
My mom got me a new coffee maker for Christmas.
I brewed my first pot with it this morning. Very tasty.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
and that's when you know you're addicted to coffee
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
I CAN QUIT ANY TIME!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 31, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Sound like, You could use a cup of my famous java
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
Olney's top 10 lineups in baseball
1.) Red Sox 2.) Rangers 3.) Yankees 4.) Cardinals (Number 4 in the charts number 1 in our hearts) 5.) Rockies 6.) Tigers 7.) Blue Jays 8.) Royals 9.) D-Backs 10.) Reds
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 31, 2011 12:49 PM EST reply actions
That's pretty amazing
to be #4 having lost arguably the best hitter in baseball to free agency. My guess is that even with him (minus Beltran) they still don’t crack the top three.
Is this the real buster olney or the one that's tripping balls?
Where are the Rays at? And Rockies at 5?
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Guessing it's because Olney doesn't understand park factors.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I wouldn't put too much weight into that, he also had them in the top OFs.
That would be the OF made up of Alex Gordon, Jeff Francoeur, and Melky Cabrera/Lorenzo Cain
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 31, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
melky is gone.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Oh where did he go?
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 31, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 31, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa, did not see this.
My gut reaction is that Sanchez is a bit much to give up for Cabrera
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 31, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
Okay maybe not, Melky put up 4 WAR last year.... I'm stunned.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 31, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
only 1 year like that though.
Sanchez isn’t all that great either though.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
also #1 in the NL!
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 31, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
almost was going to stay in this year
but I’m headed out to some party at the usual spot I go to each year
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 31, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Uncle Continental's annoying but useful New Year's Eve advice:
If you’re in the St. Louis area, print out (yes, print out- as in on paper) these numbers and shove said print out into your pocket before you go out tonight. Then USE one of them. Don’t get your pitiful drunk ass into your car unless you plan on crawling into the backseat to sleep it off.
St. Louis Designated Driver: 314.330.6598
http://stldd.com/
ScooterGuy: 855.SCOOT.4U or 314.255.1800
http://stlouis.goscooterguy.com/
Laclede Cab: 314.652.TAXI
County Cab/Yellow Cab: 314.993.TAXI
ABC Cab: 314.725.2111
Note: AAA “Tipsy Tow” service is NOT available in Missouri. Check with your local AAA to see if it’s available in your area.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 31, 2011 12:58 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
You are a good man TC
Also, I suggest putting a $50 bill in a “Papillon tube” pocket of your wallet (which you save for emergencies/cab fare – not extra drinking money!)
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
i will probably not have any alcohol tonight
in fact, there’s a significant chance i won’t participate. new year’s eve isn’t much fun if you don’t consider being drunk to be a recreational activity
The wife and I are going to some pretentious restaraunt with friends out of town.
I’m sure I’ll stick out like a sore thumb. But they do have over 60 beers. Half of which are probably fruited.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Did you inspire this RR?
use of term Asshatery …Video postdates your sig link
Start at about 2:98 if bored
I’m sure it’s nexdef’d but I just found it after watching the how to piss in public video from the other day. Also the video is funny
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt it. But it is funny.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
the things you come across whilst reading VEB!
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
I have to leave my new years party to pick up my godmother from the airport
so yeah, no drinky for me.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
It doesn't matter now. You've reached the age of majority.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
huh?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
Godparents exist to take custody of children in the event a tragedy takes the lives of the parents.
So, Azru not knowing who his godparents are doesn’t matter because he’ll never need godparents.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
that's because no one wanted you
Balls
by gdm426 on Dec 31, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, it's because infant baptism was a big no no in my parents' religion
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
i probably won't either
i’ll probably do nothing but sit in the basement & cry. it’s tradition i celebrate every night
Balls
So speculation to what he gets, but have there been any rumors about
the Cards and him negotiating? I’m not thinking he stays until he resigns to do so.
because TLR
sorry if already posted
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/padres-acquire-carlos-quentin.html…man they arew weird…trade trade and resign danks?
because TLR
I dont get what the hell they are trying to do
They play in a pretty weak division and are still stuck with some really huge contracts (peavy, konerko, dunn, rios)…..they also have a pretty weak farm system. Not really sure what direction they are trying to go. I guess Danks is still pretty young, but if they really wanted to go into rebuild mode, trading away Floyd and Danks would have been the best way to restock the farm considering what Gonzalez and Latos brought in.
by mick311 on Dec 31, 2011 3:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the only reason i can think they didnt trade
danks or floyd was asking price…they were asking for a “ubaldo” type offer
because TLR
Personally, I think Danks is prob better than
Gonzalez. I guess it prob would have been a little more difficult for them to get the kind of return OAK got for him or Floyd considering their respective salaries and lack of team control.
by mick311 on Dec 31, 2011 3:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This was my favorite...
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
that picture will never. get. old.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Has anyone posted this before?
I don’t remember seeing it. That’s a terrific photo.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think that photo is in a full page spread of
The most recent Sports Illustrated
by Cheeseballs on Dec 31, 2011 4:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The "TEBOW!" one, or a newer SI?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Maybe it wasn't the most recent one.
It’s the one with Eric Legrand on the front. The college football player who is in a wheelchair. The issue where the fans picked the cover photo.
by Cheeseballs on Dec 31, 2011 5:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Okay, I think we still have that one at the office.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I just checked and it's the Dec 26th issue.
Pgs 62-63
by Cheeseballs on Dec 31, 2011 5:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOG
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 31, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
loved the shot of Soto with a Cardinals celebration in the background
what’s even sweeter about it is I can’t immediately tell which game that’s from, cause the Cards had three walkoffs on the Cubs this year….
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
You mean the one posted upthread?
That’s game 6 vs. the rangers – Napoli walking off. See the beard which Soto couldn’t grow if his life depended on it.
Sign Roy O
no, from the LL post you linked
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Yup...
I gotcha… I can’t believe I missed that one. It must have been from one of the back-to-back Pujols walkoffs. Those were both day games iiirc.
Sign Roy O
I think so
might have been this game, too.
Just look at that line score. It’s so perfect. Vintage Cubs.
also, for shits and giggles:
Berkman F8
Holliday 1B; Greene PR for Holliday
Greene SB, advances to 3rd on E2
Freese K
Molina BB; Chambers PR for Molina
Schumaker BB
Theriot BB, scores Greene
WP w/ Furcal at bat, scores Chambers, commence fireworks.
2011 in a nutshell. What a year.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
by nota bene on Dec 31, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
MARMLOL
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Also, aftermath...
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
And if a human sized Adron Collider can lift Yadi off the ground...
just imagine what the one in Cern can do.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
AIR!
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Az, where are the last two stars on Kingdom Rush?
i only got 60
and damn you for posting a link to that game
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Wait, you guys are playing Kingdom Rush?
I just started fooling with that yesterday. Fun game.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 31, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
I can't get past the last round...
:=8/
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
I just finished it!
Woooooo!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 31, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
oh, an i also don't know how to free the sasquatch
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
fire attack on the ice that he's in, then I think you have to pay him.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
There should be 65 stars available
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 31, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
where?
i got all levels 3 stars on normal, plus all challenges on normal and that’s 12*5=60/62 (it says 62)
i am missing 8 achievements though, maybe i get the last two when i have all of the achievements?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Are you sure you finished them all? Because if you beat the twelfth level, a new level appears.
13*5=65
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 31, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
pretty sure
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
That's weird. The thirteenth level is at Sarelgaz's lair.
It involves a big ass spider. Don’t know why it didn’t send you there after level 12.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jan 1, 2012 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
Stolen from a message board
You need to click the link to facebook and twitter and you’ll get 2 stars. It should pop-up after a mission.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
i thought you get stars for being perfect on a level?
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 31, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
hahaha
I only have like 35 stars or something so I don’t know.
I’ve beaten all the levels and am working through the first challenge waves now (not the iron fist but the olive branch ones).
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Heh
I’ve only piled up 30 stars so far. I’ve finished the first ten maps and kept going back to get three stars at each. I figured this would be advantageous because I could have relatively more upgrades. However, I am somewhat lacking in the strategy department and keep getting stuck.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Also, I just discovered this game William and Sly 2 today so hopefully I don't spend all of New Year's Eve playing these two games
William and Sly 2 is kind of like Metroid, only there are not enemies, no guns, you play as a fox, and you’re in a forest with caves the mood alternates between very peaceful and a little creepy.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
i don't really like wordpress. i don't feel like i have enough control
as far as i can tell, to change the font size or style, i have to either pay $30 or wrap every paragraph in every post in a <div> or <span> and set the styles
does anyone know if i’m wrong and just missing it?
It's the internet, not a book
Let the user set the font size and style. What is readable on an iPhone is not on a 19" 1080p widescreen monitor
With Tony Cruz and Bryan Anderson around the corner
Is it wise to invest in a 30 year old catcher? Don’t get me wrong, Yadi may be better than either despite his age, but is that difference worth the ~$8-9 million marginal cost?
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
I find myself thinking the same thing.
Assuming those two can approximate league average, could that Yadier money be better spent elsewhere? With Aybar, Phillips, and other MIFs coming up for FA we might be better off spending there.
Still, I’d like to see the Cards offer 5/40 to Yadi- at that rate and with a backloaded deal we could come out considerably ahead even if Cruzderson is average.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Aside from 2B,
where else would we even need to spend?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
starting pitcher, SS probably, Of/1B probably
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
With the Newark Bears, right?
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 31, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
I was talking about the drugs, alcohol, and car crash but thats true too I think
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 31, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Was there ever any disclosure as to the specific type of drugs? I think I heard cocaine.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 31, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know either, but coke seems likely
Hard to imagine a heroine addict being able to function as a ballplayer at all
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 31, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Hooker is about the only job a heroine addict can perform.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 31, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
what about R&B singer?
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
Tablet advice, please!
I’ve been fooling around with my mom’s Galaxy tab, and I really enjoy it. I really just want something I can play simple games on and browse the web. I’m leaning toward the playbook 16gb, which is $199 from some places. Any thoughts on that?
11.4
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?t=b&lg=NL&year=2011#traj
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
your welcome very much
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Timing of a Molina extension
I realize that the last year before a contract is over is the best time to extend someone, but wouldn’t the Cards be ‘buying high’ on Yadi right now? I’d prefer to wait until August and see what kind of year Yadi is having and then extend him similar to how they handled Carp or Berk (similar in timing, not in contract terms, of course).
At that point, Yadi may want to just wait and become a FA, so that’s a risk of this approach. I suppose ultimately if he’ll take 4 years and $42M or so, I’d do it this offseason anyway.
Why would you even bother risking losing him?
It didn’t work with Albert. It didn’t work with Edgar Renteria. It certainly won’t work with Yadier Molina.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
in a negotiation right now
He has enormous leverage coming off of last year. I think it will be tough for the Cards to offer enough to keep him from waiting to hit the market. I think it probably will take something like 4 yrs/54M per to do it.
So risking losing him may ultimately mean simply refusing to meet his demand for a deal that would pay him much greater than his value over the next several years.
Don’t get me wrong — I’d love to extend the guy, I just think Yadi’s in a strong position and so accomplishing a reasonable deal might be more challenging than it would seem.
by awpierce on Dec 31, 2011 5:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So if it's such a slam dunk, why do you assume Yadi would sign any reasonable deal now?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 31, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Its not necessarily a slam dunk,
but they’d be foolish not to make an attempt. A strong attempt. He may very well be intent on just “pulling an Albert” and then it is out of their hands.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Carpenter and Berkman are old.
Yadi is in his peak years and will get a fat fat contract if he hits free agency. If the Cardinals bid tops out at 4/42…someone will just come along and offer him 4/48 or 4/50 (if not more). If the Cardinals would like to keep Yadier Molina they better get it done soon. If they don’t give a shit about keeping him or not….then, yeah…let him hit free agency. I imagine they’d like to keep him.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
yadi going to free agency doesn't mean the org doesn't want him
they signed matt holiday to the largest contract in franchise history after “letting” him get to free agency
how do you know that cardinals haven’t offered yadi an extension already? how do you know he doesn’t want to test free agency?
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 31, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
He might want to test free agency.
That would be him deciding he
A) wants to get the largest deal imaginable by getting teams to bid against each other.
B) wants to leave.
The team cannot control these two options.
The other option is to try to sign him now. This is the option that has the highest percentage chance of retaining him. If the Cardinals want to retain him, they should start this process ASAP. Not doing so often leads to their desired player no longer being with the team.
Matt Holliday is pretty much the only example of the Cardinals winning a bidding war for a player. Getting into an unncessary bidding war leads to paying more than you though you would, or losing your player.
Do I know whether or not the Cardinals have already offered Molina a deal? No, I don’t. But I do know that this kind of stuff leaks out all the time and it would actually be somewhat surprising if they did offer him a deal that he rejected and the media never found out about it. This stuff doesn’t stay very secret anymore.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
the option that has the highest percentage chance of retaining him is paying him the most money
the timing means nothing
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 31, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
if you are the only team offering, your offer is automatically the most money.
Its up to him to take it or leave it.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
I mean I could understand this position if:
A) Bryan Anderson, Tony Cruz, or Robert Stock were LEGITIMATE catching prospects. They are not and I don’t understand why anyone would pretend that they are.
B) If the Cardinals had a terrible farm system and need the money for starting pitching. They do not. The future of the Cardinals rotation looks amazing (Waino needs an extension, but we can afford that too)
C) The Cardinals were broke. They are not. They’ll have more financial flexibility in the next couple years than they’ve had in quite a long time.
D) If Yadi was 35 and not 30. Plenty of catchers…in fact MOST elite catchers are still starting regularly at ages 34 and 35. FFS, Yadi’s fatter and even slower brother Benji was still starting plenty at age 34-35. Can we please quit acting like Yadi is some decrepit old man? After his new 4 or 5 year deal is over then we can start legitimately questioning if we want to keep him around.
E) If Yadier Molina wouldn’t garner any free agent interest. He will. Every team in baseball would love to have Yadier behind the plate.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with basically all of this
there are lots of reasons for the Cards to try to sign him and now is the window for that.
However, Yadi and his representation are certainly aware of all these things, too, which drive up the number of dollars and years they can ask for. it’d be great if he took less than he could reasonably expect to get on the open market, but I am not confident he would.
Nor am I, but the attempt should still be made.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you, but on D
Although Bengie is in fact fatter and slower, he didn’t catch nearly as many innings as Yadi has going into his age 34 and 35 seasons. Bengie’s age 34 season was his fifth 1000+ inning year, while Yadi already has 5 and is only 28. Bengie’s avg. innings per season is 826 while Yadi’s is 958, which does concern me a little.
In any case, however, I do agree we should sign him to an extension and am fine with a 4/48 or even 5/50.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 31, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
"What's the name if this gastropod?"
“Simpsons, sir, one of your chair-moisteners from sector 7G”.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
"Who's that goat-legged fellow, Smithers? I like the cut of his jib."
“Prince of Darkness, sir. He’s your eleven o’clock.”
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Dec 31, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
there's no way to make my G+ totally private is there?
i know i can only make posts & stuff just been seen by people in my circle or whatever it’s called, but if you still search my name you can see it can’t you?
and yes i know no one uses G+, i’ve never even used it, but i got an email today from a relative inviting me & i just don’t want anyone i’m related to having access to my stuff online
Balls
You can set your profile so that it doesn't appear in a search.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 31, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
Edit Profile / Profile discovery?
Profile discovery ☑ Help others discover my profile in search results.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 31, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 31, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
she gave you her ticket?
that was nice of her. I guess she is busy packing their bags?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 31, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
My dad is friends with her
and she offered him 8 tickets (apparently 400 level, but free)
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 31, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
happy new year!
see you next year!
Don’t drink and drive!
So glad 2011 is over!
#everytweet
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Skip/Westbrook/McClellan for Garza!
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 31, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Get er done mo!
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I take what I said back!
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 31, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
We've signed some of their/their former gritty veterans over the years, and KMac could help with their rebuilding let's do it
Like this would happen, but I’d be for it
Yes of course they signed Edmonds
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
We don't need him right now
I’d like to have him, but its just not a need with a full rotation and Miller/Martinez as top guys, plus Lynn/Scrabble as potentials
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 31, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
From the Land of the Morning Calm, A Happy New Year to all you good folks.
2012 is The Year of the Dragon which signifies Luck.. With that I hope everyone has a successful and great 2012. Goooooo CARDS!!
This was one excellent read this morning VEBer’s, once again thanks for the enlightenment.
by Tuning in from Korea on Dec 31, 2011 6:18 PM EST reply actions
Happy New Year to you as well ... what is it like in 2012?
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
Do you have hover cars or matter transporters there?
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Well, so far so good in 2012, it's pretty cloudy and foggy where I'm at this morning, so I'm
glad I didn’t get up before the crack of dawn for a hike up mountain top to see the first sunrise for 2012. Feels like it can snow today.
I do wish I jet-pack or some high speed beam me up tech to get around, though I am lucky that I can take the subway to work and back every day, I haven’t driven the car in ages.
I finished up listening to game 7 of the 64 WS, and boy, that double play Shannon made to kill a Yankee rally was top notch, also liked it when he and McCarver were on the corners, and make the double steal.. Damn that was great, the whole game was great!
by Tuning in from Korea on Dec 31, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
So in the future you can watch and listen to classic cardinals games at will? Can you alter the outcomes?
Do you know if Waino comes back healthy, Carp’s toe heals in time for him to be ready for Spring Training, and how Berk and Beltran will fare? It’s amazing to speak to someone from the future, what else awaits us TK?
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
side note, I'm watching a Twilight Zone marathon
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
Goooooooood things will happen in 2012.. \ o /
by Tuning in from Korea on Dec 31, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome, so mote it be! (great use of / and o's too) \ o / !!!!!!!!!
o/
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Reading all the post's on VEB does come in handy, I remembered the other
day that you were explaining the use of those things to someone.
by Tuning in from Korea on Dec 31, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
I'm glad to be helpful TK, as so many have been to me. Pay it forward is my motto
Hit me though … look up :)
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Hit me with one of these
\o
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
never mind you got it
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Close enough TK enjoy the New Year ... I'll be there in a little over 5 hrs
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
I enjoyed reading this
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 31, 2011 6:33 PM EST reply actions
Like Pujols, Molina has more value with the Cardinals
In fact, possibly more so. Molina is arguably more popular than Pujols (prior to his defection, of course) and one of the undisputed leaders in the clubhouse. I don’t think Molina’s glove-first/bat-second resume will have the same kind of importance that it has in St. Louis, where Cards fans are absolutely nuts for him.
Still, I really have a hard time saying “okay” to a contract worth more than $10M AAV for any catcher, and especially one with tricky knees over 30 years old.
www.stlcardinalbaseball.com
he won't be over 30 until mid-2013
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 31, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Please don't blow this Illini
we haven’t won in 6 games, please don’t blow this bowl
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
One of my New Year's resolutions is to let go of the whole "Albert to Angels" thing
He’s a douchebag. That’s all. Time to move on.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 31, 2011 7:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
the sooner the better. It will help if Dierdre doesn't have any more press conferences
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
mine is to get azruavatar banned.
If I was going on a picnic, I'd invite Ryan Theriot, and I would ask him to bring the lunchables.
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 31, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
good one, i'll help
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
sweet. always nice to have an ally.
If I was going on a picnic, I'd invite Ryan Theriot, and I would ask him to bring the lunchables.
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 31, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
You win the pot
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
where is this pot that you speak of?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Was an homage to Biloxi Blues
Best fantasy wins the pot
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 31, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
A very Happy New Year, VEB
May 2012 bring all what you desire and much more. Mis mejores deseos para todos ustedes.
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
et tu, brute?
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 31, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Happy New Year, VEB!
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Dec 31, 2011 7:25 PM EST reply actions
happy 2012, shitlords.
If I was going on a picnic, I'd invite Ryan Theriot, and I would ask him to bring the lunchables.
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 31, 2011 8:15 PM EST reply actions
people were talking about an ultimate dream concert last night?
mine would be this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelonious_Monk_Quartet_with_John_Coltrane_at_Carnegie_Hall
Lady Day, Monk, COLTRANE COLTRANE COLTRANE, Ray Charles, Chet Baker, Sonny Rollins, Dizzy Gillespie.
i would empty my bank account to see this.
by purple_haze on Dec 31, 2011 9:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'll take the one where Pink Floyd opened for Jimi Hendrix
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 31, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Happy New Year's y'all
2011 was awesome, here’s to an even better 2012!
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 31, 2011 9:19 PM EST reply actions
so i kinda checked out of baseball topics the last couple weeks
so this has probably been discussed but can someone explain to me the reasoning behind structuring pujols’ contract like they have? i mean paying a 40 year old dh 30 mil seems unorthodox to say the least…
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 31, 2011 11:26 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Marketing
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jan 1, 2012 1:53 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Backloading costs less
It is in effect deferring a large portion of Years 1and 2, and smaller portions of 3 and 4, until Years 6 through 10 … mostly 9 and 10.
Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue parceque je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte
late response,
but the article I read implied that it was so they could also sign Wilson (and let Albert’s pay go way up once Wilson’s deal is done). I agree, paying any 40 y/o $30+ seems a stretch, but it does make the total NPV of the contract a bit less (not enough less for it to make sense in my opinion).
by ArkansasTravs on Jan 1, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Your daily December Holiday song:
Jimi Hendrix – Silent Night / Little Drummer Boy / Auld Lang Syne
Have whatever kind of new year you want, everyone.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 31, 2011 11:43 PM EST reply actions
Free Will!
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
I am watching some sort of network New Years Eve programming
There’s this weird twangy sounding guy on. I’m listening to Bobby Brown instead.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
"Thank you, Slimfast Representative. Let's go to a commercial break, brought to you by Slimfast"
[Slimfast commercial]
Well apparently it's their best tasting shakes ever!
Doesn’t that make you excited???
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
is he a living tribute to onion icon Smoove B?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 1, 2012 1:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Smoove B is a national treasure
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I don't know about y'all,
but I am partying!
By “partying” I mean that I am sitting in my basement, alone (wife works New Years Eve and New Year’s Day, yipeeeee) watching the rest of Ghostbusters II and drinking beer.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
WELL I GUESS WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TAKE CONTROL
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Also, I'm bored
So here’s a gratuitously “internet” kind of picture. I think it does a good job of representing a certain portion of the cultural oeuvre, so to speak:
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
So
I literally just spent the 2011/2012 transition helping my daughter get cleaned up from vomiting in her bed.
HAPPY NU YAER EVERBUDDY
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
this is why you don't let infants drink champagne.
bad bobo.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T PUT HER BACK.
They like to wait till the bed is made, then puke again. Just hold her, maybe over the tub, till you’re sure she’s done.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Jan 1, 2012 1:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The funny thing is, it wasn't even that kind of vomiting
That is, she doesn’t have a bug that makes her nauseous and throw up directly. She has had a bad cough, though, and yesterday both during her nap and around 11:45 at night when she was in bed for the night the cough woke her up and made her gag so badly she just spewed.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
So as soon as she was done, she was done.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
just went thru that, not fun
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 1, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
hopefully you won't have to do this again
for another 15+ years…
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Happy F'ing New Year, everybody!
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jan 1, 2012 2:09 AM EST reply actions
Happy Effin' new year to veb
From Alafrigginbama. And welcome Mizzou to the SEC…
Here’s to number 12 in 2012!
12 in 12 has a really nice ring to it
by setitan on Jan 1, 2012 3:09 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yes I think so
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 8:01 AM EST up reply actions
happy new year everyone
here’s to those who wish us well, and those who don’t can go to hell!
#12in12
Balls
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Jan 1, 2012 8:02 AM EST up reply actions
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