'Tis the Season to Celebrate Holliday
by bgh on Dec 26, 2011 8:00 AM EST
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Print"Thank goodness we still have Holliday."
So read the text message I received from a good friend and fellow Cardinals fan. Over a thirty-minute span I received several that formed what was essentially a stream-of-consciousness rationalization of Pujols leaving and assessment of the club's 2012 chances (as they stood at that moment, prior to any free agent signings). The sentiment in the above-quoted final text was somewhat surprising coming from him.
Like many St. Louis baseball diehards, my friend spit invective in the same medium when Matt Holliday dropped a fly ball at Chavez Ravine during the 2009 NLDS--a drop that started a Dodgers rally which was extended on three occasions by closer Ryan Franklin before allowing the coup de gråce off the bat of the .232-hitting Mark Loretta. Loney reaching on Holliday's error was not even a top five play in the game in terms of WPA. The walk to Casey Blake, Ronnie Belliard single, passed ball allowed by Yadier Molina with Russell Martin batting, walk to Martin, and Loretta single seem to have never happened in the collective consciousness of the Cardinals fandom; all that remains is the Holliday error.
That ninth-inning error also seems to have wiped clean any memory of Holliday's second-inning homer that put the Redbirds up 1-0 and provided the difference in what was a 2-1 game entering that fateful final frame. The amnesia induced by Holliday's dropped fliner also erased any remembrance of Chris Carpenter laboring through a mere five innings in Game 1 and posting a line that included nine hits allowed, four walks issued, and four earned runs allowed. Forgotten as well is the fact that the Cardinals as a lineup only managed to plate three of the 16 runners they put on base in that opening game of the NLDS. As for Game 3, well, that's best left in the amnesiatic haze of never was.
That Holliday's drop in left field of that game still dogs him this day is unfortunate. Since coming to the Cardinals via trade in 2009, Holliday has been an integral part of two postseason teams and a World Series champion. Whether one goes by more traditional stats or new advanced metrics, all Holliday has done as a Cardinal is hit and produce runs at a truly elite level. In addition to his numbers, Holliday is one of the grittiest players I've seen play the game and is a clubhouse leader.
Matt Holliday has a career batting average (BA) of .315. In 2011, his .296 BA was the lowest since his rookie season but still ranked thirty-third in the big leagues out of those who qualified for the batting title. More importantly, his .388 on-base percentage (OBP) tied for eleventh in all of baseball. Holliday's .525 slugging percentage (SLG) tied him with new teammate Carlos Beltran for twentieth. His combined OBP Plus SLG (OPS) of .912 ranked twelfth in the major leagues in 2011--ahead of former teammate Pujols (.906) and just ahead of Beltran (.910). Using Weighted On-Base Average (wOBA), the story is the same: Holliday's .393 wOBA ranks twelfth--behind the likes of Jose Bautista, Miguel Cabrera, Ryan Braun, and Adrian Gonzalez and ahead of players such as Josh Hamilton, Pujols, Carlos Gonzalez, Adrian Beltre, Mark Teixeira, Ryan Howard, Nelson Cruz, and Mike Stanton.
Holliday's excellent 2011 was no fluke. It is just another elite offensive season in a career striking in its consistently fantastic offensive production levels. Holliday has never had a below-average offensive season as a big leaguer and been head-and-shoulders above average from his third season through 2011. In his rookie season, he posted an OPS+ of 104. In subsequent seasons, his OPS+ levels have been 114, 137, 150, 138, 139, 139, 149, and 153. Despite being hindered by injuries in 2011, it was his best season relative to the rest of the league. The same is true using wOBA+. Even though Statcorner's wOBA+ only goes back to 2007, Holliday's 2010 and 2011 are career bests at 127 and 128 respectively. This despite Holliday having an unlucky 2011. Holliday's wOBAr was .426 when regressing for batted-ball levels despite it calculating out at .394 based on results.
Combined with Holliday's lumbering style of outfield patrol, the NLDS error has also unfairly fueled a persistent misconception amongst Cardinals fans that Holliday is not a good defender. Holliday ranks as perfectly average or above average in the big three fielding metrics. The following chart provides Holliday's Total Zone, UZR, and Fielding Bible +/- defensive ratings. A rating of zero is average, above zero is above-average (the higher, the better), and below zero is below-avearge (the lower, the worse).
HOLLIDAY'S DEFENSE BY THE BIG THREE DEFENSIVE METRICS
The metrics are in agreement that 2006 was a horrible year defensively for Holliday. For whatever reason, Holliday does not rank well in Total Zone, but UZR and The Fielding Bible +/- system have him as an above-average fielder for most of his career. His career ranking in Total Zone is a poor -16. This is due largely to his first three seasons; in the last five seasons, he has had Total Zone scores of -1, -2, 0, 0, and 0. Holliday has a career UZR of 10.7 and a career Fielding Bible +/- score of +27--both of which rate him as a very good left fielder for his career.
On top of his first-rate play, Holliday is also a clubhouse leader. Last week ESPN published a story on David Freese's unlikely rise from Mizzou dropout to World Series hero. The whole article is worth a read but it included an intriguing piece of reporting on Holliday taking Freese under his wing after Freese's second drunk-driving charge:
[Freese] credits Matt Holliday. After the DUI, the Cardinals outfielder told Freese, who is single and prefers living alone, to stick by him, that he wasn't going to let him screw up his gift. Last off-season, the two were always together, hitting, lifting and hanging out at Holliday's house. They talked about life, relationships, busting your ass and putting the bad behind you. "That was the greatest thing, because I had a role model to learn from daily," says Freese, who isn't drinking now. "He's a big brother to me -- a great teammate, person, everything. He's a big reason I'm still in this game."
In addition to his off-the-field leadership, Holliday also sets the tone on the field. His play-a-hard-nine style is in the vein of Scott Rolen and makes it crystal clear why manager Tony La Russa openly campaigned for the Cardinals to acquire Holliday via trade. There are many examples of this on the field but one sticks out in my memory.
Last season against the Chicago Cubs, the Cardinals were down 5-3 in the bottom of the fifth inning and had a rally brewing. The bases were loaded with one out. Freese was at the plate and Holliday was on first base. Freese grounded what should have been a double play ball to second that seemed likely to end the inning--but Holliday had other plans. In what I believe is one of the best base-running plays of 2011 by a Cardinal, Holliday went in hard to second base and took out shortstop Starlin Castro. Like an orca hitting a seal caught unawares, Holliday brutally broke up the double play, allowing the Cardinals to plate two runs that tied the game. The Redbirds would go on to open up a yawning lead over the Cubs and win handily. It was a play that would have made Enos Slaughter proud and one that has become a Holliday base-running calling card--he did the same thing to Elvis Andrus to break up a could-have-been double play in Game 6 of the World Series.
via bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com
After the 2009 season, the Cardinals signed Holliday to a seven-year, $120 million contract that pays him $15 million annually with $2 million deferred. It has turned out to be one of the best free agent signings in recent years with the Cardinals reaping a large surplus in production from the slugger. Holliday posted 6.7 Wins Above Replacement (WAR) in 2010, the first of the contract, a WAR total that was worth $26.7 million on the open free agent market, according to the Fangraphs WAR valuation. In 2011, Holliday accrued 5.0 WAR in 124 games, which was worth $22.7 million. The Cardinals have paid Holliday $34 million through the first two years of the contract and have received approximately $49.4 million in WAR, or, $15.4 million in surplus value. There is still a lot of time left on the contract--five years--but it has been a superb signing by general manager John Mozeliak through its first two seasons.
My friend's text message was spot on. Holliday's performance with the bat is amongst the top ten-to-fifteen in all of the big leaguers year in and year out. Holliday also fields his position well. On top of that, he is a leader off the field and sets a hard-nosed tone in between the lines. With Pujols choosing to play in Anaheim for ten years and $254 million over returning to St. Louis, thank goodness the Cardinals still have Holliday.
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Great post
We meaning me have not appreciated MH nearly enough. I hope he will continue the great production and quiet leadership now that he will be more in the spotlight w/o Pujols around.
by BCinVA on Dec 26, 2011 8:18 AM EST via mobile reply actions
excellent, sir. simply excellent
I’m big enough to admit that I was wrong about trading for him. While he may never reach Pujols’ numbers for us, the guy is just simply a beast. I have had to fend off a few non-Cardinal fans and maybe a couple of quasi-Cards fans that try to blame Holliday’s contract for Pujols leaving and that Holliday isn’t worth the money he’s paid. My first question is usually ‘do you actually know anything about baseball?’.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 8:36 AM EST reply actions
Yes I was one of the mad ones too
Much happier having Holliday than I would be with Wallace
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 26, 2011 9:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Funny thing...
I remember posting something like… why did we have to include Mortenson and Peterson in addition to Wallace? Lesson learned… Good job Mo…
Holliday was one of my favourite Non-Cardinal players
going into the 2009 season, i was absolutely ecstatic when we traded for him and even more thrilled when we signed him as an FA.
Long Live Holliday!
Bursting into song.
I'm with ya.
I was all about trading for Holliday but I really can’t brag too much about knowing anything over anyone since I was just going on my gut.
Holliday was one of those guys I hated when he played against the Cardinals because he seemingly always inflicted some sort of damage. I know realistically he didn’t do damage every single time (isn’t it strange how baseball can warp 30-40% of the time to feeling like 100% of the time?), but it sure as hell felt like it.
I just like having those guys on the team.
Beltran took me a little longer to warm up to. Probably because of his age and possibly due to him playing for the Mets and that team underachieving pretty much annually and taking themselves out of the spotlight (outside of 2006, i suppose).
But, once I got over being pissed at Pujols and really looked at the lineup, I came to the conclusion that Beltran would be a fantastic addition if the years weren’t too long. I would have accepted a 3 year deal but I wouldn’t have liked it. Two years though, was fantastic.
You all I’m sure know I live in Chicago, so I’m going to mention something. It makes me laugh how the cub fans have reacted to the Beltran signing. “Look how much older the Cardinals just got. hehehe”. or “Sure, they’ll be good next year but they’re going to suck in two years when all those old guys stop hitting and they’ve mortgaged their future with bad contracts”.
Just makes me laugh because all of a sudden, they feel like they’re the smartest people in the room.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
good for a Monday morning laugh Tackle Box....they really should have some insight into bad (and long term) contracts
But in Beltrons, Berks, and Carps cases, guess they’re not understanding that we don’t have them under contact after the two years … and Holliday is only going to be 36 at the end of his contract
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
I think it's impossible for a team to "mortgage its future" with a one- or two-year contract.
Berkman is signed for 2012 only. Beltran is signed for 2012 and 2013 only. How many one- or two-year mortgages even exist?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
tell that to the genuises up north
I think when the news broke, mattisnotfrench was the only person in the thread to point out all the 1 and 2 year contracts…….
and no one even responded to him.
Here’s what was said:
Going to be a painful couple of years but Holiday turns 32 in three weeks. Furcal is 34. Berkman turns 36 in February. Carpenter and Beltran will turn 37 and 35 respectively in April. Even Wainwright just turned 30 in August and Yadier Molina will be 30 in July.
I’m seeing Epstein’s wisdom on a total rebuild even more with that crew in place.
Cards are an older team, but they are better, too
They are obviously in for "right now" and willing to pay for it down the line.
Yep, it looks like there are a top three
a second pair and the Astros. The Crew, Reds, and Cardinals are all making win now moves and will fade in a couple of years. Hopefully the Cubs can step into that void.
Right, older and much better. Makes sense to rebuild when your competition is way ahead of you right now but there’s also a clear window opening up in two-three years.
And then mattisnotfrench said:
Most of those guys are under contract for 1-2 years at most.
The plan is to contend with those guys and then build around Holliday, Wainwright and Freese, and Molina if he plans on staying.
They really think signing anyone over 30 is akin to their Soriano contract.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Yeah, it seems odd to state that the Cards are in it to win "right now"
and that they will “pay for it down the line” when none of Berkman, Beltran, or Furcal are under contract after 2013.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, I don't get it either and that's part of why I mention it here.
I figure there must be something wrong with me if it makes that little sense yet they all agree with one another.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
they are cubs fans
makes that little sense yet they all agree with one another.
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Louden Swain: Can 800 million Chinamen be wrong?"
Tanneran: Frequently.
I assume the same applies to Cubs fans…102 years of failure and still going strong.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 26, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'll go along with Tanneran: Frequently
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that's why I like these contracts so much
A) They are free agent contracts, so we don’t have to give up any prospects, who are necessarily towards building a sustainable team in lieu of having a 150 million dollar payroll.
B) They are short term, so the downside is very low.
These allows us to go all out on the team for next year, while not sacrificing anything long term. Old, injury prone all star caliber players are a great market inefficiency.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
what I like about this is that I have two chances to enjoy this season
hopefully: all the old-timers have big years and the cardinals compete all season
if the old-timers suck: all the hpgf guys get pushed forward and I get to see if matt adams etc. is any good after all.
hpgf will always = hippogriff in my head
because hyperventilating prospect geek fan does not exactly roll off the tongue.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 26, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
First thing you wanna know about hippogriffs, is that they're very proud creatures, very easily offended. You do not want to insult a hippogriff. It may just be the last thing you ever do. Now, who'd like to come and say hello?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Dec 26, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They are even more ignorant than i thought
At least they are closer to getting it now. Keep chipping away cubs fans lol
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 3:02 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah, but they're about a decade too late to the party
comically though, they think they’re the first one’s here.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
That's because I'm paying attention.
God, I just could not be a Cubs fan. Ugh. I’d be dead inside already.
by mattisnotfrench on Dec 26, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Great post
MH has, indeed been under-appreciated. Anyone else remember when he was hitting near or over .400 in late May (early June?) before his injury-filled year really began. Also, your reference to Fangraphs got me to look up Beltran. Though not so good in 09 and 10 because of his knee injuries, last year Beltran generated $21.1 m. dollars in value (4.7 WAR). With reasonable health, this will prove to be another great signing by Mo.
Excellent post. Simply excellent
That is all
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 26, 2011 9:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Dyn-o-mite post
Hard thing about Holliday is that perception can be reality. He has the largest contract, and yet is / was the third, fourth or fifth best on the team in 2011. Albert’s shadow covered him his whole time as a Card. The first few months after his big signing, he was less than clutch, and frustratingly so. Berkman seemed to carry the team more this last year. His injuries are just freaky. And, in the playoffs, well, Freese outshines them all.
Holliday is a key piece, the glue of the line-up. He is steady, if unspectacular. But, don’t we seem to get more excited about Albert, Berk, Craig, Freese, Yadi and even Beltran now? Matt just doesn’t seem to have many of those WOW moments. Love him, but no WOW.
Matt is the attractive sweetheart at the party, the good friend that everyone likes to talk to. But, when he walks into the room, people don’t drop their drinks and their jaws and say"WOW."
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
He just hasn't had his "moment"....
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 26, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
One moment was throwing that runner out at home ... who was that? I didn't even see that coming. I didn't realize he had that kind of arm, and the throw was dead accurate
Of course it was somewhat minor moment in comparison to rest of the run
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
see I'm nexdef'd here after looking down thread
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
I'm just gonna throw out a rumor I heard
This may have been covered in the last few weeks; I can’t keep up with comments.
Talked to a big Brewers fan friend at a party Friday night. The rumor around Milwaukee is that Braun has an STD, and that the meds he takes for it ’cause the positive test.
I had to laugh, then explain why I was laughing so hard. ’Cause, well, Braun and an STD.
not even something I would have to think about...
“… I totally took PEDs so I can hit a ball father…”
Grit != flat out sucking.
Because there is some lasting stigma for a young single guy getting an STD?
Why would anyone give a fuck that he takes valtrex or something?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 26, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
This rumor has been floating around for a while
I know that TMZ reported that his medications were a factor in his test, but, I mean, it’s TMZ, so take it with a truckload of salt.
hmmm, I don't know.
TMZ is often correct when it comes to this stuff, but they get such a bad rap over how they get their information and because 99% of their attention is on Hollywood.
I’m more inclined than not to believe what TMZ is reporting. They know they have a big spotlight on them which causes them to be careful about what they put out there.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
I'm skeptical just because no one has explained
How this makes sense.
I’m not particularly aware of the pharmacological properties of herpes treatment – valtrex is the conventional drug for preventing flareups, iirc.
But I don’t understand why using any anti-herpes medications would cause an elevated testosterone/epitestosterone level, or why it would result in a positive test for synthetic testosterone. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it doesn’t make sense to me. As far as I know, there’s nothing hormonal about herpes treatment.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 11:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
worst case senario
is that it comes to light that Braun has the Herp, but the treatment did not cause him to pop on the test. He also took PEDs.
Grit != flat out sucking.
There are a bunch of Holliday haters out there who need to read this
Thanks for the thorough post, bgh
i agree with those who say that signing holli
was apu insurance
i think when they did that deal they knew they could not give albert arod type dollars and had to start looking beyond albert’s time
holli is not apu or fielder for that matter
but he is also 10m less/season
so turn it around, is albert worth 10m/yr more than holli?
i guess we’ll see
TLR is gone, long live the king
These kinds of comments still confuse me.
Why do you say Holliday “is no Fielder?”
He is better than Fielder, and Its not even really close. Holliday has averaged 4.95 WAR over his career, and 6.25 WAR over the last 5 years; Fielder has averaged 3.9 WAR over his career, and 4.42 over the last 5. Holliday has been, on average, almost 2 wins better than Fielder on a yearly basis.
Why do people not realize that Holliday is one of the best players in baseball and a legitimate superstar? Is it just because he doesn’t hit that many homeruns? I really don’t get it.
it's because fielder is bad at things we take for granted
he’s bad at defense like most first basemen, but he’s worse than most first basemen; he’s a bad baserunner like most huge slugger types, but he’s worse then most of them. so we adjust for the usual badness, instead of the extra win’s worth he costs against even his own kind.
it’s kind of the opposite of the reason pujols was underrated at his best.
That makes sense if he was a consistently awesome player otherwise
but people also seem to forget that Fielder seems to only feel like hitting like a superstar-caliber player in odd-numbered years. In 2006, 2008, and 2010, he was only worth 6.4 WAR combined.
I think Holliday’s consistent greatness is being hugely underrated by most people. He is 3rd in all of baseball since 2006 in WAR. Number 3! Fielder is 33rd.
People really need to start realizing how awesome Holliday is.
Let's start a grass roots movement!!
No wait, let them underestimate LEGO and the Cardinals. I think we were already well into the NLCS before announcers quite saying “Cardinals will lose this game/series because their Bullpen is horrible/can’t close wins”
No one had noticed the improved bullpen was one of the largest contributors to our run to the playoffs, or even into the NLCS
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
also, his flashy HR totals make it seem like he's pujolsian hitter
when in reality he slugs pretty much exactly the same as holliday, but holliday’s doubles don’t catch your attention the same way that fielder’s big home runs and subsequent dancing do
Fielder does the "I need to go potty" dance?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
TB, that line you have as your sig is probably mis-attributed
there’s apparently no record actual record of Wayne saying that, either in real life or in any of his movies. The more likely attribution is to the Jackie Brown character, played by Steven Keats, in The Friends of Eddie Coyle, and the quote from that film is, I believe, “This life’s hard, man, but it’s harder if you’re stupid.” The only difference between the line in movie and the line in the book is the added “man”. Wayne does not appear in this film.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 26, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
read the bouros rundown in pd today
many more pages for fielder than holli
durability seemed to me to be at the top of the list, along with youth
but mostly, hr’s make the splash
TLR is gone, long live the king
Gold glove
Apologies if this was mentioned and I missed it but I believe Matt was 2nd in the voting for the left field NL gold glove.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
by Zubin on Dec 26, 2011 10:09 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Totally loved this bgh! It's is quite apropos and timely to boot in this Holliday season
I love me some Matt Holliday and am impressed by the consistently high level at all aspects of play. An example is his full effort base running and he rarely, I can’t recall an example, fails to run out an infield GB Also, appreciated his leadership example taking Freeze under his wing.
Also, appreciated this:
In what I believe is one of the best base-running plays of 2011 by a Cardinal, Holliday went in hard to second base and took out shortstop Starlin Castro. Like an orca hitting a seal caught unawares, Holliday brutally broke up the double play, allowing the Cardinals to plate two runs that tied the game. The Redbirds would go on to open up a yawning lead over the Cubs and win handily. It was a play that would have made Enos Slaughter proud and one that has become a Holliday base-running calling card—he did the same thing to Elvis Andrus to break up a could-have-been double play in Game 6 of the World Series.
#lazystarlincastroheh
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 10:12 AM EST reply actions
test of new Holliday avatar ==========================================================================================================►
arrow just for fun
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong?
Now that the roster for 2112 is pretty much set and trade talks
tapering off, I wanted to do a fan post on the 1964 world series and
Bob Gibson’s role in it, including posting a link to download or play
online the origional radio broadcast of the 7th game. I thought there
would be some that would have an interest in that.
I can’t get it to publish. Since my comments about the series had some
length to it, I did the post in microsoft word and went to create a post
on line. I did a title first in the title block and then pasted the text
in the larger text block. I did some editing, posted the link and then
tried to publish. I got a message saying “your fanpost couldn’t be published-
body can’t be blank.”
I deleted the origional draft and went back and recreated again in word with
a number of changes because I was not satisfied with the wording of my first
effort anyway. I then went through the same procedure creating another draft
online and it won’t publish either, I get same message. I’ve tried a number of
things. Can anybody tell me what I am missing?
2112?
You mean that we’ve invented the time machine?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
well, you got me all excited about seeing a hundred years into the future.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Me too!
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 27, 2011 10:57 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Can't help but you should be in good hands sooner or later when others show up
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
You used to be able to import Word docs into a Fanpost.
I’m not sure why it is giving you this message. I usually just type directly into the Fanpost page, rather than use Word.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah
It is kind of like it doesn’t recognize the format or something but I did even convert the text to a pdf format one time and still the same message. I sometimes do comments in word or word pad and they post.
maybe save the doc as a text file, rather than word format will help
TLR is gone, long live the king
Thanks sportman
if nobody comes up with another reason for the error. I might try that later, just convert it to plain text and retry.
Or copy and paste it
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 26, 2011 11:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah, try this
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 26, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
hm
I’ve never seen this before. if you email me the word doc I can probably convert it into an easily fanpost-able format for you—my address is in my profile, or somewhere on VEB at least.
update
looks like we’re having some network-wide copy-and-pasting problems with the CMS, which might have something to do with this. I always write in-browser, so I hadn’t noticed it.
I had problems copying and pasting a chart for this post but thought it was something wrong on my end.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Great album from a great band ;)
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 3:09 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Quick note on wOBAr
Holliday’s wOBAr was .426 when regressing for batted-ball levels despite it calculating out at .394 based on results.
wOBAr also adjusts for park, so that’s what the bulk of the difference is. Holliday’s BABIP was .330, which doesn’t seem very unlucky.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
Not the bulk.
His wOBA* (which is only park-adjusted) was .409. So, about half and half.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
and the batted ball adjustment is more in depth than just adjust for BABIP fluctuation, so this doesn't tell us anything
by prophetjohn on Dec 26, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
wOBAr takes his BABIP per batted ball type in 2011
and regresses it towards his BABIP per batted ball type in the three previous years. If Holliday’s BABIP was somewhat lucky from 2008-2010 (and at .342, it likely was), than wOBAr is going to overrate him a little bit. A .330 BABIP is already in the top 2% of major league hitters, so I don’t think its likely that his true talent BABIP last year was much higher than that. He was 31 last year.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
that has nothing to do with what i was saying
by prophetjohn on Dec 26, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Oh
I misread then.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
you said that the bulk of the difference is the park adjustment because his BABIP is .330
and that’s not unlucky. bgh pointed out that his park adjusted wOBA is about halfway in the middle and i’m just saying that either way, adjusting for only aggregate BABIP doesn’t say much because maybe something weird happened like really low BALD and really high BAFB or whatever
by prophetjohn on Dec 26, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
oh, yeah
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
I like that batting average for line drives acronym on Holliday
Because he has no hair
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 26, 2011 1:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Great post
I really liked the quote about Freese.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
It's rare to have some tangible example of leadership.
Normally—like with Schumaker, for instance—it’s just this nebulous concept that is thrown out there without anything to back it up.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Berk is also a leader and very positive influence on this teams moral and chemistry ..... wasn't he the one who led the "let's wear turtle necks to the game" on the wast coast?
He is not shy about praising the young guys to the press either, I recall some really positive comments about Jay and IIR during one interview a reporter asked someone, I think Pujols, how he would sum up Freese in one word and Pujols couldn’t, Berk popped right up and said “Superstar!”.
If Berk plays near 11’ level I would love to continue watching him play and I think he really brings a lot to the team but feel sad that next year is his last due to young guys coming up that deserve and should get playing time.
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
That's a bit different then with Holliday though
Based on that quote, we can say that he decreased the odds of Freese getting another DUI, which could have harmed his career. So that’s a tangible way in which Holliday increased expected wins for the Cardinals. The Berkman stuff is a bit different. All we have to go by is that he’s a nice and fun guy, and that doesn’t have as tangible an effect on team performance as not getting arrested for drunk driving.
Us keeping Berkman depends on how Adams does I think. He’s been great every year in the minors (~.420 wOBA in R and A- in 2009, .393 wOBA in A in 2010, and .391 wOBA in AA in 2011) and if he has another great season in AAA, he should be given a shot to play for the major league club. But if Berkman has another great year and is willing to sign another 1 year contract, I would rather just keep the same alignment that we’re gonna have next year (Craig, Berkman, Jay and Beltran all splitting time).
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
I concur completely with you. But do think Berk's a role model and positive influence
Also, I love the frank and sometime humorous post game interviews
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, he's definitely my favorite player on the Cardinals
Him and Freese.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Loved this!
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
TRADE MATT ADAMS
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 26, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
you heard me.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
not yet
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 27, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
cases like matt adams really make me wish the cardinals had a high-minors stop that wasn't so hitter-friendly
given the way the PCL exploded in 2011 he could have another .390 wOBA and I’d still be nervous about whether he was for real.
are the parks really that hittable in the PCL?
If we’re getting fooled then so are a lot of other teams. Not that it helps anything, just saying that everybody is in the same boat.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
.780 OPS last year, .800 OPS this year
the pcl’s been hitter-friendly for a long time, but it seems that as hitting in major league baseball declines the pcl is holding steady at early-aughts levels.
wOBA+ metrics (statcorner) should make you feel a little better about things like that
but I understand your apprehension. For example: Springfield + formerly weak hitting left handers = nervous robot.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
You know one thing that makes me feel a little better about Adams? His swing.
It’s very compact and quick (and obviously generates some good power).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 26, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
it's also easier for us to "want" it to apply to holliday since, you know, he's good at baseball.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Remember when Holliday totally screwed up that catch?
Cost us the game.
Boog would have made that play.
Wasn't wearing dong glove properly
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Dumb F^$#ing @#$
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Great Post, BGH
And don’t forget this Holliday WS gem
7-2 PO
by gocards62 on Dec 26, 2011 11:04 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sweet, thanks
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Want to know what Holliday hits so well?
Notice how the barrel is rotating around his hands and isn’t just in line with the forearm of his front arm (which is normal) but is actually a bit ahead of his front forearm.
That’s a sign of GREAT whip.
Many people teach that you want the barrel behind the hands at contact because that (supposedly) helps to brace the barrel and keep it from rebounding, but the truth is that you want to whip the barrel around the hands like Holliday is doing in the picture above. And if you whip the barrel around the hands, it’s moving so fast that there’s no way it’s going to rebound.
Boog would have made that play.
by thepainguy on Dec 26, 2011 11:08 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
is it too close to christmas to make a whipping it out joke
by prophetjohn on Dec 26, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
there's never a bad time to make a whipping it out joke
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 12:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Go ahead, whip it out
The joke, I mean.
Boog would have made that play.
by thepainguy on Dec 26, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i know quite literally nothing about swing mechanics...
but is this a reason he hits the ball so damn hard?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
That and terminator like strength and athleticism
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
yes
being great at whipping it out suggest that he has hard hit balls
by prophetjohn on Dec 26, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Is the "viciousness" with which he appears to swing related to his mechanics?
And was Sheffield similar?
He's certainly trying to hit the ball hard
Because a hard-hit ball is harder to make a play on and is more likely to get to the wall.
Don’t confuse style and substance. While Sheffield started his swing differently, like every good swing it was basically the same from the start of rotation through the point of contact.
The same is true of good kids and girls; they move the barrel the same way (which is facilitated by lighter bats and shorter fences).
Boog would have made that play.
Fantastic post, BGH. You were spot on about people forgetting the shit storm that occurred after MH dropped the ball
I won $10 with a friend who insisted that Holliday’s error immediately cost us the game, allowing the tying run to cross the plate. So many people forget how bad Franklin was that night.
ryan franklin pitched badly?
That’s unpossible!
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 11:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
has anybody watched "catching hell," the bartman documentary?
I watched bits of it the other day and was impressed.
One of the similarities of the bartman play and the buckner error to the holliday nutshot in 2009, is that people only remember one play. In the bartman play, the cubs gave up 8 runs that inning, and what people recall is a missed chance on a pop foul. In the buckner play, the boston bullpen had been terrible, giving up several hits, an hbp, a wild pitch.
For whatever reason, missed fielding plays are more memorable.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 11:25 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Don't know about Netflix
But you can buy it on iTunes for $2.99. That’s what I’m going to do since my wife deleted everything off the DVR.
"There is one word in America that says it all, and that one word is, 'You never know.'" Joaquin Andujar
The other similarity is that each team--Boston post-Buckner, Chicago post-Bartman, and St. Louis post-Holliday--all had at least one more game in the series.
Bartman and Buckner each happened in a Game 6. The Holliday drop happened in a Game 2.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
and the cubs had a lead in game 7
Didn’t the red sox as well?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 12:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Red Sox had a 3 run lead in game 7
I know the Cubs also had a significant lead with Kerry Wood on the mound, but I don’t recall exactly how big the lead was.
i dont recall what the cubs lead was either
But I do remember Wood helped his own cause with a home run.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 3:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Those moments are rather baffling
At the time of the Buckner play, the game was already tied! Yes, the winning run scored on the play, but the bullpen had already blown the lead earlier.
In terms of the Cubs debacle, I will never understand why Alex Gonzalez didn’t catch more grief for botching a routine double play ball that would have ended the inning with the Cubs still having the lead.
Because it was the straw....
Yes, the winning run scored on the play, but the bullpen had already blown the lead earlier.
While the Mets had tied the game, there were two out. Buckner flubbed an easy, slow-roller that would have ended the inning and allowed the Red Sox a chance, and that flub allowed the Mets to win the game. It didn’t help that Buckner’s error was a bonehead play that’s everybody’s Little League nightmare, and he did it in the World Series.
though if you look closely, he very likely wouldn't have made the play at first, anyway.
And if that was a TLR-managed team, we’d have been livid that he hadn’t made a defensive substitution there.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
I'm not sure why you'd say that....
It was an extremely routine play, and Buckner was just a few steps from the bag well ahead of the runner. Here’s the video.
for some reason, I've heard a lot of people say that Wilson would have beat it to the bag anyway.
I never thought this and always wondered why people said that. I couldn’t tell if it was people trying to make Buckner feel better or were trying to make the Mets feel as if they weren’t gifted a win or what.
But I never really understood it.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
The fielding plays are more memorable in the sense of being more "fault-worthy"
Because they can be attributed to only one person and there is no “excuse” for the play other than simply missing a play that is made routinely (e.g., no one would blame Holliday if he had missed a difficult running catch). Franklin doesn’t take heat for the rest of the inning because giving up hits are very common and are therefore expected, and because giving up hits can be attributable to more than one person (the hitter takes as much credit or more for the hit, than the pitcher does giving it up).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 26, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
if freese didn't hit that triple, and home run
and we lost that game… People would blame him for taking one off the head.
Grit != flat out sucking.
and holliday dropping one
and getting picked off 3rd
if we don’t win, they blame holliday again
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 26, 2011 11:56 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
It's totally bias on my part but I know but
the ball must have been drifting due to Holliday and Furcs positioning at the end of the play, and Furc should have gave up on it sooner and moved quickly to get out of the way instead of just standing there. I think Holliday thought Furk had it w/o problem until it was too late / both out of position to make the catch at the end, compounded with Furc being between the ball and Holliday.
Also, he looked safe to me, looked like left hand touched the bag before or was a tie w/ the tag.
I’m sure I’m in the minority on both, and am in my house too ha!
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
i agree that fook was in the way on that dropped ball
i don’t know about the pickoff play, i was on the 1b side of the field and didn’t see it well
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
tell me what you think from the last clip ... I stopped it at 1.00 and moved one frame a second
check the frame at 1.03/04 play time
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think left hand beats the tag, but at very worse it looks like a tie
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
i don't know he might have beat it but it's so close that call goes either way
it probably has to do with the reputation of the catcher too. i think yadi probably gets that call as well
the ump might have also seen the right hand bump off the foot and then just paid attention to the other hand
who knows. it was really bad timing for that though
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
very good point, and yeah damn bad timing. Had it been Yadi I would have left out of my seat cheering
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
napoli has a pretty awful reputation as a catcher, though.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
SAFE
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 26, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
At least I'm no longer alone. Thanks!
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
o/
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Man my are was getting tired ... thanks BVHeck
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 29, 2011 6:13 AM EST up reply actions
Also, while possibly irrational, many fielding plays trigger "the little league test" in people's minds
People understand that pitchers have off days and that hitters don’t come through more often than not, but they just don’t easily forgive or forget when someone fails to make a play that you would expect a little leaguer to make most of the time.
Why would it be irrational to lay more blame on ML Players when they fail to make plays that little leaguers should make?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 26, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
It may superficially look like a little leaguer should make the play,
but, often times, the plays involved require a much faster reaction time than a little leaguer would possess.
Holliday, for whatever reason, dropped an easy fly ball. Buckner let a dribbler roll through his legs
They were easy plays for ML players. I’m still not understanding why the increased expectations that they (Holliday/Buckner) make these plays may be irrational.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 26, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
at the risk of speaking for bailorg, I think what he's
Saying is irrational is the expectation that MLB players will NEVER make a little league gaffe. Everybody makes a boneheaded play at times, even the best defenders around.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 1:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
In addition,
it becomes irrational when people single out these plays as the only/primary reason as to why the game was lost.
Okay - sounds like a different argument to me. His post above
Seems to be saying that the plays “superficially” look easy, but actually require more talent than little leaguers possess (what a convoluted test that would be). In any event, and without getting into a fruitless discussion about the talents of the average little leaguer, the plays are clearly ones ML players should make.
It is not irrational, IMO, for the enmity of fans to be based on (1) how easy the play is and (2) how important the situation is.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 26, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
funny thing about the Bartman play
is that somebody(Costas maybe?) asked Alou about that and Alou’s answer was that he wouldn’t have caught it anyway.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
This seems an odd statement to make after the hissy fit Alou through on the field immediately after the play.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Heat of the battle.
Everyone thinks it’s a ball or they are safe in the moment. It’s usually a day later I feel like an ass for my hissy fits when I realize I was wrong.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 26, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
This was actually several years after the fact.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
may take fliers on some minor league deals
to washed up pitchers, but other than that… Done sir done.
Grit != flat out sucking.
at this point, I'm not even sure where we'd put a free
Agent. Unless there’s a good FA second baseman that comes to mind or unless we really trade/shift to the bullpen/release westbrook (which seems unlikely), I don’t know what we’d be in the market for.
The rotation’s full. The outfield’s full. We have a starting catcher and two solid backups. The bullpen is full. Hard to imagine berk, furcal, or freese being bumped for a free agent.
Unless there’s a big trade to come, I think we’re done.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 12:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So what the heck are we going to talk about now???
Wait, did VEB ever have its own version of the Oscar Taveras Wars?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
And with that comment the specter of a future conflict was raised.
On the heels of a joyous holiday, none of us suspected what lay ahead…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think we're done too
But Oswalt would be a big upgrade over Westbrook and he’s sad he will sign to a one year deal.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
how's his back these days?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
scary
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
I thought you said 'hairy' the other day?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I did and was laughing inside my head as I typed scary
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
i dunno
he had a 3.44 FIP last year. 3.27 the year before. Same age as Westy.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Held together with duct tape and modern pharmaceuticals.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
duct tape is good stuff. I'd trust it to hold a back together.
Modern pharmaceuticals seem to help a lot as well. Just ask Roger Clemens.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 26, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm all for the big trade for a 2B
This team is built to win and I’d be happy to give up a few prospects to get a true all-star caliber 2B.
Just win
Like who? And pay him what?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, OK.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Basically done
Perhaps a trade could be arranged tho
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 3:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
anyone hearing anything about Oz?
if the strangers really want westie…..
TLR is gone, long live the king
Strangers = Rangers?
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
The Rangers haven't been linked to Westy.
The Morosi piece said that Lohse and Westy were still available and that Matt Harrison may be dangled as trade bait to lure a veteran starter. Morosi worded it in a way that would appear he was linking the 2 things together, but I think it was 2 completely seperate thoughts. WTF would the Rangers trade for Harrison for Westbrook?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 26, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry,
I know that you didn’t say anything about Harrison, but for some reason I read the MLBTR comments today and thats the assumption they all made.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 26, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Do me a favor, Birdos.
Can you go to the link in my sig and rec it until it’s green? I’d like it to stay visible over there until after we meet. Also, if you’d like to come and haven’t told us yet, put it in the comments! Thankee!
It's at 2 now
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Also go read my Last two fanposts if you havent already, veb
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 3:22 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Great post!
This whole article is why Holliday is my favorite player. The man just works hard and plays at a high level consistently.
How can anyone not like a guy who will put his body on the line to break up the double play?!
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 26, 2011 11:39 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Skip does that also
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Can Schumaker rust fast enough to make it to second before the double play is turned?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Every time I see Schumaker play in person I'm surprised by just how slow he is and by his lack of quickness.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
no, but he can slide in headfirst 10 seconds after the out is recorded
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 26, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Is he the tin man?
Heh heh heh
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 3:23 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You can imagine a MI getting
mad and taking a swing at Skip after he breaks up the DP. It’s a lot harder to imagine anyone taking on Holliday (or Rolen) in the same situation because they’re such imposing guys.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 26, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Never realized Rolen was as tall as Holliday.
He never looked all that big to me on TV.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 26, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Rolen's not as svelte
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
WE STILL LOVE YOU SCOTTY
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
thanks, bgh
i knew he was outperforming his contract but looking at that surplus value, i had no idea how much
and the guy is so low key and yet awesome, i don’t understand how anyone (except for san diego fans) can dislike him
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Matt Holliday is great in so many ways.
As i have said before, if Matt Holliday is to now be the face of the Cardinals franchise, I am pretty cool with that.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
there are about 10 ways I love me some Matt H.
production and leadership being the top two. But there are two things that bother me.
I believe he is too much of a weight room addict, too muscle bound in his chest. He is so strong, mostly just a physical gift, that he could not do a single rep for a year and still be a lot stronger than an average player.
The other is the Troy Glaus syndrome, namely he bitches with the home plate umpire too much. At least a dozen times last season I yelled at him, thru the computer screen, “get in there and hit, dammit.” You never change a ball/strike call, and it does not ingratiate you with the ump.
Really? I saw one such argument and thought it was out of character, don't recall others
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
in all fairness, he barked at some blatantly wrong calls even a blind squirrel gets right
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I totally agree, but
my suspicion is that among the umpiring brigade, Holliday has been tagged as a complainer. Often understandable, as you pointed out, but I wonder if it doesn’t aggravate an already existing mindset (on the part of the umps). They “had it in” for Rasmus, too, altho for a completely different set of reasons.
when he doesn't complain, people tag him as unemotional
as in doesn’t care
can’t have it both ways
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
He right about this call but should have keep it to himself
Still my overall opinion is he’s a pretty calm and level headed guy, was dealing with some demons in second half due to hitting falling off I think
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
thanks, but to beat a dying horse
I’m not thinking of the overt outburst type of thing. I totally agree Matt is basically cool when it come to THAT. But, as I have watched, he does do the subtle things often, like leave the batters box and lift his chin, glaring upward. The things that make an umpire feel like he is being shown up.
That accumulation has a greater negative effect (on future calls) than an out and out bitching.
Also, it seems we are just watching with a different pair of eyes, and I may be seeing things that aren’t there.
Yeah I can agree to that, I was thinking of the outburst vs the non verbals
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree with that
If the umpire feels he’s being showing up because Holliday’s looking up into the sky over a questionable call, then that umpire needs to go back to umpiring school. Most players in the league have body language they use as an alternative to verbally arguing a call, and most umpires let that go.
by Forsch31 on Dec 27, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
although nearly every umpire in MLB needs to go back to umpiring school, so it’s kind of tilting at windmills.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
by SleepyCA on Dec 27, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thought it was me.
But he seems more “vocal” about calls then the average bear and shows it on his face.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 26, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
Lots of good points here BGH
especially appreciate folks who go in hard to break up DP’s. However I think we are looking at him through some rose colored glasses here. To say his drop against the dodgers wasn’t the key play to cost us is like saying the Bartman play really didn’t start the domino of disasters for the Cubs. Holliday is a good player but he seems to be a butcher in the field. When is the last time you can remember one outfielder having two blatant drops in playoff games that a Little Leaguer could have caught?
franklin's job was "Closer"
he could have just gone ahead and earned his salary by closing that game. he didn’t. a closer is supposed to be able to get batters out regardless of what’s going on behind him
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
STOP TALKING ABOUT THE HOLLIDAY DROPPED CATCH.
it is the very definition of SSS.
Bursting into song.
I can remember Game 6 of the 2011 World Series
And then after that, there was the very catchable ball by the Rangers’ dugout that David Freese dropped (can’t find a picture).
And in a similar fashion to both of Holliday’s errors (which were 2 years apart…), very important plays happened after that had a much larger impact on the game.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
He should've been sent packing after that dropped ball.
I mean, he could do it again next year for crying out loud.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
if only we could send people to the minors DURING games.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by SheckieZx on Dec 26, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the plays are memorable because of the context,
But I don’t think holliday is a bad fielder because of two plays. I’ve seen albert muff easy plays – but not in the postseason. I’ve seen yadi give up easy passed balls. Dumb errors happen. I’m not convince that holliday’s dumb errors say anything more about him because they happened in the postseason.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 1:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yadi gave up a passed ball IN the inning that Holliday muffed the LD
Seriously, Holliday was the one that gave us a lead to hold on to. The Bartman thing is a good comparison to prove just how foolish your statement is, it was the muffed double play in the inning and the parade of hits allowed by pitchers that truly sunk the Cubs but Bartman gets the blame. It was Yadi’s passed ball and the parade of hits allowed by Franklin that truly sunk the Cardinals but Holliday gets the blame. It’s silly to crucify Holliday for that play, so let’s move on from doing it.
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 26, 2011 2:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So
Elite level stats = rose colored glasses, eh?
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 3:25 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Like the Bartman play,
the nutshot heard ’round the world was just one of a long series of people screwing up, getting unlucky, or not doing their jobs. Until that inning, Holliday and Wainwright were the only players who had done their jobs all game. That the offense, TLR, Yadi, Franklin, Duncan, and others all get passes because of one play by Holliday is crazy.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
by hazel on Dec 26, 2011 3:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Colby Rasmus had a good game, too.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The Bartman play really didn't start the domino of disasters for the Cubs
The Cubs started the domino of disasters for the Cubs.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
Holliday is so clutch - he did have his "moment".
A game tying 2 RBI triple in the 13th inning of the wild card play off game for the Rockies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gq1SdiTgUY
and then getting knocked out in a play at the plate to win the game.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
he looks like he's trying to "smash" the ball for power, not purposely trying to hit HRs to me
HR come but he doesn’t routinely appear to seek them at cost of hitting well overall
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
exactly
i like HRs, but if you give me a choice of a guy with a higher wOBA, I’m going to take him, regardless of the HR numbers.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
actually, he looks like he's trying to beat the ball into submission.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Did you even read this article??
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 3:26 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
No, and no one who doesn't hit 30 HR is good at baseball.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
by hazel on Dec 26, 2011 3:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, that Ichiro guy really sucks at beisbol
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, i thought it was a conversation starter, and you knew the answer.
no, he has not- he hit 28 in 2010, that’s the closest.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
why the hell did we ever pick him up in the first place?
he sucks
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Boy he kind of sucked it up in the HR derby (not that it matters)
But with the playoff drops and the choke in the HR derby until proven wrong I just don’t feel like he is very clutch.
you think performance in the HR derby is evidence of being clutch?
anyway, i think you have reached the conversation topic on which you will differ strongly from us “saber nerds”, but “clutch” does not exist in baseball- not strongly, anyway. i’m content with Matt going out and being one of the best 15 hitters in baseball every year and playing a good left field, and i will choose to disregard any few anecdotes painting him as a “choker” just because he failed in one situation. Albert failed in a lot of situations too.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
Why even respond seriously to that post?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 26, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
i'm in the mood for some trolling
not planning on reeling him in just yet, i like to play the catch for a while first.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
I think the rest of us have just decided that he's trolling
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 26, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously 70% failure will get you in the Hall of Fame in this game
but I just cant get my head around a guy dropping two easy fly balls in the playoffs. You can’t give away outs just ask the Brewers. He was even giving the old yo-go which tells me he’s out there thinking don’t hit the ball to me.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
yes but still don't think he can stay healthy
Yadi is my fav cause he is very clutch.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
David Freese dropped a routine popup in Game 6
so you’re telling me just because he then later made up for it, it’s ok that he gave away that out? i can find you MANY games that Matt Holliday has singlehandedly won for the Cardinals- just because they aren’t the same game in which he dropped that fly ball, it doesn’t count?
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
Did Yadi forget how to be clutch when he allowed the passed ball in '09 NLDS Game 2 that moved the winning run into scoring position?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
you need to get your head around it
because there’s no reason to believe, from everything else he’s done over his career, that this one play is representative of anything. if you want to have a discussion on VEB you need to either accept that first principle or come up with a reason you’re able to communicate to someone else as to why we should be paying more attention to that then we do.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 26, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it's just my opinion
doesn’t even mean I’m right I’m just saying I don’t think he’s that clutch because he dropped a couple of lazy flies that I think even past my prime I could have come up with. I really think baseball is evolving back to pitching, speed, and defense and we can’t afford dropped balls.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
when you keep saying it, though, in the face of significant evidence to the contrary, you're accomplishing nothing but agitating people
you’re entitled to your own opinion but you’re not entitled to bring it up over and over again when it’s already been dealt with. the facts are that matt holliday has had 30 total chances in three playoff series, and he’s made two errors in them. there’s literally no defensible reason for letting 30 fielding chances and two errors factor more heavily into your opinion of a player’s defense than all the other evidence there is.
ok, you're certainly allowed to have an opinion.
I think one of the things that we try to do well here is to look for evidence of things in baseball.
There’s nothing wrong with liking baseball on a gut level and liking particular players because you like their approaches or because you like the way they play. Once my favorite ballplayer was tommy herr, and it had nothing to do with him being documentably the best second baseman in baseball (he wasn’t).
You will find a lot of people here are more interested in an evidence-based approach to baseball, looking for evidence of what may be a repeatable skill and what may be luck. That’s a different approach. I don’t know that it’s “better,” but it’s more interesting to me.
Without looking for objective proof, baseball discussion is kind of pointless. If there’s not a common, objective definition of what “good” is, then we can’t really have any more of a discussion about which baseball players are the “best” than we can about whether french food is better than italian, or whether the beatles are better than the rolling stones, or any other completely subjective comparison.
However, if subjective impressions are all that matter, someone who says that rafael palmeiro is the best ballplayer of all time is just as right as someone who says babe ruth. My mind recoils at that thought.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 1:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
let's see
by your logic, just because you’re an asshat today, that makes you an asshat every day
got it
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 26, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i know i know, but the trolling is just too much
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
No, 65% failure will get you in the Hall of fame in baseball
70% failure makes you Aaron Miles
Seriously, I get that you are a troll and all, but are you also Al Hrabosky himself?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 26, 2011 2:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
siiiiigh.
Great play in Game 3 of the World Series (when game was still close)
Or how about his 3-5, 2 RBI game in Game 5 of the NLCS, or his .435/.652/1.152 line in the NLCS?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Cool because it's Napoli he gunned down!
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that "clutch" performance is preached by lots of people
But strong evidence suggests it is not a repeatable skill. Most apparently clutch performance disappears in a large enough sample size.
There are lots of studies of this. However, to the extent that anecdotes assist, consider that david freese’s game 6 offensive performance was about as “clutch” as they get, right? Yet he also had a hideous defensive miscue in the game. So was freese clutch or not clutch?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 1:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Do you let your emotions dictate your life?
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 3:28 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
No such thing as clutch?
Really, none whatsoever? Are all supposed clutch plays in sports random luck? Do you dismiss all sports psychology and the idea that people with a certain frame of mind can maintain/elevate their performance in high leverage situations and that others might tend to underperform in these situations? While I agree that much of this is overblown, there does seem to me to be situations where a player is comfortable/confident in the spotlight and conversely, players with a ‘monkey on their back’ that are maybe carrying some mental baggage that shows up when the stakes are highest.
Golf and tennis, in particular, are sports where I think this comes into play. I don’t think Jack Nicklaus was just really lucky and Greg Norman unlucky.
+1
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 27, 2011 1:43 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think that the more opportunities a player gets in "clutch" situations (whatever that means),
the more likely his numbers will approximate his overall career numbers. Jack Nicklaus was a very good golfer whether it was Friday, Saturday or Sunday at a tournament. Albert Pujols is a really good hitter whether it’s the first inning or the ninth, whether it is May or October. The same with Alex Rodriguez and David Ortiz. Drawing a line between “clutch” and true talent is nearly impossible. That’s why I tend to come down on the side of talent in this debate.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Some people do simply handle pressure situations better
sometimes that gets better with experience and sometimes it doesn’t. Talent helps a ton, but sometimes its more than that.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Better players are more clutch than worse players.
Because they are better.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I suspect that people who can't handle pressure situations
get weeded out well before they get to play in the playoffs. After all, playing in the majors for the first time, or making your first appearance in front of a sold-out stadium, is pretty high pressure for a young player.
The players who are significantly better in clutch situations as compared to their career average
is a very very very short list.
I AM ACTUALLY STLCARDSFAN4 JUST TO CLARIFY YOUR POSSIBLE CONFUSION.
and that list is a small sample.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
not only that, but its a completely invalid list
the sample size when comparing post season stats to career stats is way out of balance and not nearly enough to determine if that person is actually “significantly” better.
I’m not refuting the point that there are people who classify as more “clutch” than others especially when you are talking about a Jim Leyritz vs an Alex Rodriguez.
However, there is a psychological effect on really big pressure situations. Ultimately, with the talent these guys possess, it may not matter much. But to say pressure has nothing to do to a players ability to perform is shortsighted and naive.
It does have an effect, how much of an effect is not only based on person to person, but on the situation itself.
With that being said…..I want Matt Holliday or Lance Berkman or Carlos Beltran hitting in our most pressure filled situations. And that’s because they are our best hitters. No other reason.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
okay, so RiverRat, i do see that you and I agree.
this was more a response to C@rdball. Honestly, I kind of jumped past your comment.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
“But to say pressure has nothing to do to a players ability to perform is shortsighted and naive.”
Agree. And I think everyone would agree that different players have different skill levels/ability at each of the various aspect of the game. Why wouldn’t that hold true with the mental side of the game as well, where one player handles pressure better than others. I actually think it would be an absurd argument to think this wouldn’t be true.
Having said this, I am glad Holliday is a Cardinal.
So I'm 300 pages into Infinite Jest right now
I put it away because of school and work and picked it up again over break and have been reading it alot, but I don’t make good time because I still have things to do and I reread passages a lot. Just finished the part of Orin’s backstory where he picks up football and meet Joelle. I don’t remember who all here is a DFW fan, but I remember il rosso was one
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
i love DFW
but that book is difficult for me to read.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
I like DFW
But that airport was so confusing to me the first few times I used it.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
It does require a certain level of...masochism
But I think ultimately it’s extremely rewarding. Not for everyone, though.
I haven't started it yet
but have you read any of his short stories? that might be an easier way to decide in advance.
yeah, i'm a big fan of the stuff in Consider the Lobster
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
a supposedly fun thing etc.
Is available for free online from Harpers through a link from DFW’s Wikipedia page. It’s good but depressing.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
by hazel on Dec 26, 2011 3:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I read the tennis article on Federer
I liked it (though I enjoy the topic so that helps) but wasn’t sure I got the literary aspect of it. I’m not sure I’m wired to properly enjoy what others consider to be great works of literature. It often feels like such a slog (looking at you Don Quixote).
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
I went to BN to buy it but when I saw how long it was I bought Broom of the System instead.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
by hazel on Dec 26, 2011 3:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Just finished the book recently
I loved it. Like, it was astonishing.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 26, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
i just finished Consider the Lobster
i got Infinite Jest for my stepdad and have been looooong waiting for him to finish it.
by purple_haze on Dec 26, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
My experience with people who have an irrational hatred of somebody
is that it is based on one thing that person did that colored the entirety of the hater’s outlook of the hatee, My brother has hated Whitey Herzog with a white hot passion based solely on the fact that Whitey traded Ted Simmons. He also hated Darrell Porter for being Ted Simmons’ replacement. I have never been able to change his opinion of Whitey in all these years.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
It's weird how some people's opinions
are so immutable, even in the face of overwhelming evidence. There isn’t much you can do but walk away shaking your head.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
My eldest brother and I just mock him about it at appropriate times.
That’s all we can do.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
heh. your brother and I would not get along very well.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
I don't hate Holliday actually I will pick him up in fantasy if he's around past round
4 because I think he is primed for a rebound year. He used to kill us when he was on the Rockies and i was singing his praises. I just think he turns into a skillet in the playoffs.
please use the reply button and keep all this holliday angst in one thread
the problem isn’t that you think he turns into a skillet in the playoffs, it’s that he doesn’t, and there’s no reasonable argument that he does, and that in a discussion with other people you can’t just use your hunch as a bludgeon against mounds of evidence.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 26, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Sorry new to this don't know the rules yet
Do you think if Jackie Smith would have dropped the touchdown pass in two super bowls there wouldn’t be people’s who’s opinion is he isn’t very clutch.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Not anyone who is rational.
That is like saying because I locked my keys in my car twice in 35 years of driving I should not be allowed to own a car.
Shit happens. Get over it.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
Your right maybe we will have a benefit dinner and invite them all
so I can get over it….Holliday, Buckner, J. Smith, Bartman, Arod, Leon Durham, T. Romo, sure I’m forgetting a few here.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know much about football
but my position is that two drops can reasonably be described as “matt holliday made two ‘un-clutch’ plays,” if you have more belief in the reality of “clutch-ness” than I do. but moving from those two drops to “matt holliday is un-clutch” is completely unreasonable.
I think UL is a bit of a troll
but I will admit, I was pretty happy Holliday was out for Game 7. It’s not that he turns into a skillet, but he seems to have bad karma. I was happy to see Craig out there.
Just win
i personally would have liked to have both in the game
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
is all fairness, that was a pretty sweet catch he made in the outfield
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I didn't mind seeing Holliday sit Game 7
but the reason wasn’t because he becomes a “skillet” but more so because I believe he was hurt and his hitting was being affected by the injury. Give me a healthy Holliday and I don’t even think twice about it.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
plus he was playing through a hand injury
by jealousblues on Dec 27, 2011 3:26 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You keep saying clutch, like it's something that is measurable and actually exists.
And with that I’m done.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
What exactly will Holliday be rebounding from?
His .912 OPS was twelfth in all of Major League Baseball last season.
In the postseason, for his career, he has an OPS of .861. That’s a number you don’t fry eggs in.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 26, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
matt holliday fucking rules.
that is all.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 1:32 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I get criticised for not having a rational argument and this is perfectly acceptable?
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
yes
“the sky is fucking blue” is also acceptable. you’ve taken a position almost nobody on this site holds; you’ve got to defend it, rethink it, or keep it to yourself.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 26, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 12 recs
OK let me make sure you understand here
If Holliday puts up the numbers for us he did for the Rockies in 06 and 07 I’ll have the same man crush on him you do. However in my eyes he cost us the game that nocked us out against the Dodgers and be honest who else was a little relieved he wasn’t in the field for game 7 last year? Is he a good player yes, has he shown that he drops easy fly balls in the playoffs? Yes. Did he carelessly get picked off of third yes? Hope I’m wrong here guys so don’t ban me again.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
relieved that one of our best hitters was sitting on the bench for Game 7 of the WS?
No, I’m pretty sure that I wasn’t really happy about that. Just like I wasn’t thrilled at Schu starting in CF. I want the best players on the field and that includes Holliday. Any other line-up is ludicrous.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
here's your mistake
he hasn’t shown that he drops easy fly balls in the playoffs, he’s shown that he dropped two easy fly balls in the playoffs.
the difference between those two statements is fundamental to understanding how baseball works. it’s the difference between “cliff lee is unhittable in the postseason” and “cliff lee was unhittable for a while in the postseason, until he got pasted in the world series and the nods,” and you don’t need to wait until cliff lee finally loses a playoff game to understand that baseball players’ tendencies become stable at far greater amounts of plate appearances or innings pitched than you can ever find in the postseason, and that—as a result—there’s almost nothing to gain from using a player’s postseason performance as a means of projecting his postseason performance in the future.
you’re allowed to believe whatever you want, but what you believe in this case is wrong, and you’re not allowed, on this site, to just keep saying, “I know you guys have given all these reasons why I’m wrong, but I think he sucks in the playoffs.”
I don’t ever want to ban anybody; it’s not in my best interests as the editor of this site to reduce its readership, and I like hearing from diverse viewpoints. but you keep refusing to try to understand why everybody else here seems to disagree with you.
I understand "sabermetrics" and this site really seems to be a six sigma style
“rely on the data” world. But I think we are fooling ourselves if we don’t think certain idividuals biochemistry doesn’t react differently to pressure. Example Arod has long been considered the better player statistically but how do we explain in our gut that we would rather have Jeter up at the plate. Or how do we explain how a guy like Jim Leyrits can be so clutch in the playoffs but some guys just fold. If you had the fate of the word at stake vs. the Aliens Holliday would not be my first pick to go up to bat. Just saying.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Jim Leyritz had a career .213 BA in the post-season.
Alex Rodriguez has a higher OBP and SLG than Jeter in the post-season.
The issue here isn’t your opinions (As a newb, I supported Theriot for the first half of the season and received nary a warning). The issue is that you’re totally ignoring what everyone is saying and repeating yourself over and over. This is a place of discussion, so if you have an idea that goes against the grain, great!, but you have to then have the discussion that will ensue, which includes responding rationally to the critiques others are bound to offer.
by a fink on Dec 26, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
please read
I’m beginning to develop a twitch from all of this clutchiness talk.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I rec'd the post because it might be the great single piece of trolling i've ever seen
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
he wouldn't be my first pick either, because he's not the best hitter in baseball
the sample sizes are obviously small but given the extent of his dominance in previous performances vs. aliens I’d probably go with michael jordan.
anyway, I can explain your gut—people who are paid huge amounts of money to understand baseball for years have simply failed to understand baseball, and turned the sports press into an enormous, celebrity-driven echo-chamber that turns a-rod into a choker because that’s the most profitable storyline, and jeter into a Hero of Baseball because he’s smooth with the press and baseball reporters as a class would love to be an attractive manhattanite who can sleep with anybody he wants.
your argument here is circular—your gut is going not from some instinctual understanding of baseball but from everyone else making the same mistake you have very loudly. the “we” you use isn’t us—and that’s not because we’re ignoring our guts or because I know what six sigma is beyond a running joke on 30 rock, it’s because we’ve given our collective gut better inputs.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 26, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This isn't sabermetrics
This is common sense.
I’m not a data guy, even though I work in that world as an editor. I enjoy the game like many “traditionalists” do. And the idea that Matt Holliday is not a clutch player because of two errors in two different post-seasons is completely nonsensical because it ignores the fact that Holliday has had far more clutch moments in the post-season than those two boneheaded plays.
A few years ago, there was the idea that Scott Rolan was “unclutch” in the post-season. Until he absolutely killed everybody in 2006.
iirc Matt was pretty good for the rockies in the playoffs.
I believe with the cards
in 09 the entire team didn’t hit
plus it was only three games
in 11 he had some ligament damage in his hand.
it would be like blaming Howard or Hamilton for not playing well
by jealousblues on Dec 27, 2011 3:33 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Nonetheless, he still has managed a career postseason OPS of .861.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
you realize that we got swept by the dodgers in three (3) games in 2009, right?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
You realize that If "Mr. Untouchable" would have caught the ball we
would have only been down 2-1.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Baseball is in the middle of a less offensively minded era right now than it was in '06 and '07.
Holliday had excellent seasons for Colorado in those two years, to be sure, but they were not as good relative to the rest of baseball than his ’10 and ’11 seasons with the Cardinals. In ’06, he posted a 137 OPS+ and, in ’07, he posted a 150. In ’10, he posted a 149 OPS+ and, in ’11, he posted a 153 OPS+. Holliday has been as good for the Cardinals in the last two seasons as he was for the Rockies in ’06 and ’07.
Feel free to declare your man crush on Holliday in your reply.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 26, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he "cost us a game" that was um, game 2
you know, there was a game after that, and a game before that.
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Dec 26, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Colorado is easier to hit in than STL.
Holliday has been as good a hitter as he was then, just with less numbers because of Bush.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
by hazel on Dec 26, 2011 4:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
he had a hand Injury in the playoffs last year and his hitting was diminished because of it.
by jealousblues on Dec 27, 2011 3:28 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
i'm reading all the replys to this days later
and if anyone ever reads this, i hope they have the same awe of the awesome responses to this post alone that i do. well done, VEB.
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
I'm literally laughing my ass off right now.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
soooo, your ass dropped on the ground?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 26, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yes, it's a great weight loss program.
I highly recommend it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
well bring back the damn troll then
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Happy Birthday, Ozzie!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 2:02 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
57 years young today
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 26, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Happy Birthday and many more
Meant to ask Ridgesee earlier … how much do you remember about the 1964 run and how does it and 2011 version compare?
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
The 1964 pennant run
does not compare to 2011. The Cards kinda backed into to the the series because none of the top 3 could win in the last week of the season.
The WS series is a different matter though, ranks right there with 2011 with just as much drama.
i think 64 was made more meaningful after the near miss in 63
and the ws was full of heros
TLR is gone, long live the king
C. J. Wilson hits batters with the bases loaded in World Series Game Sevens.
So unclutch.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 2:07 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
So, here's my thoughts on the nutshot heard round the world.
It’s Bud Seligs fault. Why in the world mlb allows a team, any team, to hand out 50,000 white towels while guys are trying to catch a white ball, is beyond explainable to me.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
oh come on quit using the Wainwright defense he was just trying to protect his teammate
I guess that was the only fly ball that day?
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think it definately played a part,
and is more of a valid argument than Holliday isn’t clutch.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I could actually understand the Metrodome roof that was rediculous
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
So the roof could have been a factor
But 50,000 white towels spinning could not have been a factor.
Even though other players hate rally towels, and I have had trouble seeing a ball through white towels when in attendance of playoff games.
Got it.
yet the battered eye has to be empty ;)
by jealousblues on Dec 27, 2011 3:35 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Okay as the new guy I would like to make a few admissions here
One I probably kept these going longer than need be because I didn’t know I had to hit reply instead of startig a new thread. Our dear leader has corrected me so my bad. Also I will now refer to Holliday as Mr. Untouchable because twice now I have criticised his performance and been called a troll and the first time I got banned by one of the “gods” so I will try to be like the rest of you now and only criticise Skip Schumaker.
you're a troll, because you don't listen to reason and keep posting the same thing over and over again
i don’t know if you seek attention or just don’t understand logic
but mocking the community and the mods goes way too far
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
see, THIS is trolling
Also I will now refer to Holliday as Mr. Untouchable because twice now I have criticised his performance and been called a troll and the first time I got banned by one of the "gods" so I will try to be like the rest of you now and only criticise Skip Schumaker.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
your continued failure to understand cause and effect is totally mystifying to me
matt holliday isn’t a bad player because he made two bad plays, and you aren’t being called a troll because you criticized matt holliday. you’re being called a troll because you consistently either misrepresent other peoples’ positions (as you’re doing here) or ignore them entirely (as you do elsewhere.)
if matt holliday is ever so consistently mediocre as skip schumaker you can bet people will be critical of him here.
you have totally missed the point.
The point is not that matt holliday is untouchable or that skip schumaker is our collective scapegoat. The point is that this is a place for dialogue and discussion. When people rebut your points, and you simply say the same thing over and over again, you’re not participating. If there’s an interesting way to look at matt holliday skeptically, then let’s hear it.
If you are not interested in explaining or discussing your positions beyond “this is how I feel,” then fine. Your vote is noted: skip schumaker, yay; matt holliday, nay.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 2:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Use rational thought and some logic
And statistical evidence and you will do much better here
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 3:33 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Somebody will have to define this trolling to me.
Even if I am dead wrong which I admittadly may be I’m not allowed to state my opinion?
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 2:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
state your opinion once
then let other people bring arguments to the contrary
give them due consideration
and bring more solid meaningful evidence to support your claim
this is what grown-ups do
as for me, i’ll stop taking the bait and just flag the trolling
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
You've stated your opinion several times, which has been refuted.
At this point it is actually more charitable to assume that you’re conscious that your statements are intentionally inflammatory than to assume that you’re so willfully ignorant that you’re unwilling to either debate the issue with reason, or drop the matter in the face of overwhelming disagreement.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
How in the hell can an opinion in which I said I hope I am wrong can be inflammatory?
I like you all are Cardinals fans and want them to win. Just because I stated my opinion on “Mr Untouchable” I have obviously hit some hot buttons. I really don’t have to have any facts as to why I do or don’t like a player and when I do bring up facts like he drops balls in the playoffs or he gets picked off in the playoffs.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
You stated your opinion, many folks here stated their disagreement,
and as far as I can tell, you have no useful reply. So we’re done here, yes?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
you certainly do not have to have facts to hold
An opinion. Usually, having few facts at hand makes forming an opinion easier.
You do have to have some facts and some reasonable argument on your side to suck up this much space and time on this board.
And now I’m going to ask you pleasantly and politely to take a day or two to think about this and what you want from your discussions here before you post again.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 2:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
And I would ask you sir to treat new members as myself with respect and dignity.
It is tough being a new member of a community let alone be piled upon when your opinions don’t match the rest of the group. While I may have an opinion in the minority it is still hurtfull when others turn this into a personal attack. I respect everyone’s opinion but feel I am often provoked and forced to defend myself when I shouldn’t. Just trying to enjoy some good ol fashioned baseball banter not get kicked in the nuts all day long. Uncle Lights has feelings you know.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 26, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Just remember, that you are the one joining the community.
Perhaps it’s the new member that should bend a bit in order to gain acceptance, rather than the community bending over backwards to make you feel welcome. Don’t get me wrong, we love having new members and new points of view, but we don’t take lightly the boat rocking that has been going on.
Further, this is not a hivemind community. We are all Cardinals fans, but are also usually very critical of many things that they do. We also have reasons (fact, logic, etc.) for that disagreement. You can come here any day of the week and find many civil disagreements ( Hope you’re having a great Christmas fourstick!!!), but you are just coming off as I don’t like ___________, and there’s nothing you can do about it, and quit picking on me.
If you don’t like how we roll, please take your marbles and go home.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Dec 26, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We do not all think in lockstep
We disagree with each other often and when we do we state the reasons for disagreements then when reading the rebuttals if we have new facts that counter we point them out. We do not simply repeat ourselves without logic then get upset when others disagree. Furthermore, seeing as we disagree on so many things here seeing so many agree on how good Holliday is or how weak measuring “clutch” or measuring anything on just two plays is should be telling about how good Holliday is and how weak measuring “clutch” or measuring anything on just two plays is. If you have a factual argument then please go ahead, we are a blog after all. If your only thing is I don’t like Holliday then we disagreed and now we can move on, repeating yourself or degrading others by misconstruing thier opinion is unnecessary and agitating and it is far beyond the point that infers the agitation to be intentional, which is what cause the “troll” word to be thrown around
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 26, 2011 6:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
"I really don’t have to have any facts as to why I do or don’t like a player" is not true on viva el birdos
I think you’ve misunderstood what we’re about here.
if you don’t like a player and you don’t have facts to back it up, keep it to yourself. I don’t care what you believe, but when you bring it up on this website you are participating in a community that has its own rules for participation and engagement.
if you have any questions about what those are, please e-mail me. in the meantime, please stop talking about your particular brand of dislike for matt holliday, because whatever your intent your means of formulating your argument has turned a great post from bgh into what amounts to a trolled thread.
If I could post images via mobile I would drop Nixon here
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 26, 2011 7:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
this may be the first time in history
anyone has linked to urban dictionary for a legitimate, clean purpose:
troll
One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. ’you’re nothing but a fanboy’ is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.
> tebow
by cschepers on Dec 26, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
A troll is someone who baits other people into anger or frustration
This show you’ve been putting on over the last few days is pretty much textbook.
As for your question, the admin of this website already answered it.
you’re allowed to believe whatever you want, but what you believe in this case is wrong, and you’re not allowed, on this site, to just keep saying, "I know you guys have given all these reasons why I’m wrong, but I think he sucks in the playoffs."
She's a troll!!
Peasants: We have found a troll
Burn her burn her!
Peasant 1: We have found a troll, may we burn her?
(cheers)
Vladimir: How do you known she is a troll?
P2: She looks like one!
V: Bring her forward
Uncle Lights: I’m not a troll! I’m not a troll!
V: ehh… but you are dressed like a WCBW
V: What makes you think she is a troll?
P2: Well, she turned me into a P-D poster
V: A P-D poster!
V: There are ways of telling whether she is a troll.
P1: Are there? Well then tell us! (tell us)
V: Tell me… what do you do with trolls?
P3: Burn’em! Burn them up! (burn burn burn)
V: What do you burn apart from trolls?
P1: More trolls!
(pause)
P3: Wood!
V: So, why do trolls burn?
(long pause)
P2: Cuz they’re made of… wood?
V: Gooood.
V: So, how do we tell if she is made of wood?
P1: Build a bridge out of her!
V: Ahh, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?
P1: Oh yeah…
V: Does wood sink in water?
P1: No
P3: No. It floats!
P1: Let’s throw her into the bog! (yeah yeah ya!)
V: What also floats in water?
P1: Bread
P3: Apples
P2: Very small rocks
P1: Cider
P3: Grape gravy
P1: Cherries
P3: Mud
King: A Duck!
(all look and stare at king)
V: Exactly! So, logically…
P1(thinking): If she ways the same as a duck… she’s made of wood!
V: And therefore,
(pause & think)
P3: A troll !!!!!
Just win
by The Duke on Dec 26, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Weighs and means!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 26, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Hey I rec'd this first and it eventually became green.
#hipsterlikeCJWilson
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
omg
what just happened here?
rec regardless
"He may have been only .213 but they were the clutchest .213 of all time."
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
your statements come off as if you are just disagreeing with people to start an arguement
Grit != flat out sucking.
Argument?
A: Come in.
M: Ah, Is this the right room for an argument?
A: I told you once.
M: No you haven’t.
A: Yes I have.
M: When?
A: Just now.
M: No you didn’t.
A: Yes I did.
M: You didn’t
A: I did!
M: You didn’t!
A: I’m telling you I did!
M: You did not!!
A: Oh, I’m sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
"You've got to have an attitude if your going to go far in this game." -- Bob Gibson
by cyclone on Dec 26, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
brilliant
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
I hate to even bring it up at this point..
buy you guys are probably for more instant replay as well. Let’s take the human element out of the game and even go to electronic strike zones….for that matter lets just simulate the seasons on a computer.
Can we agree that this has clearly jumped the shark at this point?
Any guise of this being unintentional trolling disappears with this post, I think.
by mojowo11 on Dec 26, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
tom s., a moderator of this site, politely asked you to take a break from posting.
i think you should do so before you find yourself with a forced break from posting.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
I'm more tolerant than most here of people who unerringly cling to irrational positions, but
this is precisely the sort of thing where you are going too far.
Seriously, why are you here?
At this point it is abundantly clear you don’t appreciate VEB or the way we do things. The Post-Dispatch forum will be more welcoming of your style of enjoying baseball. I would recommend you relocate.
by ViperLjs on Dec 26, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We're done believing that he might not be trolling, right?
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 27, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
positioning algorithms aren't good enough yet
you don’t know me scoot
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
VEB sucks and is unclutch
Dfa
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
by mob16151 on Dec 26, 2011 2:55 PM EST via Android app reply actions
You remember that one time the servers went down during the winter meetings?
I bet BCB doesn’t go down at key moments like that. VEB is a choker.
ok, folks. show's over. as you were.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 3:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
but azru just got here!!!!!
We can’t have any fun.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
To: RiverRat
01011011 01101000 01100101 01100001 01100100 01100101 01110010 01011101 00100000 01010011 01101011 01111001 01101110 01100101 01110100 00100000 01011011 00101111 01101000 01100101 01100001 01100100 01100101 01110010 01011101
01011011 01001101 01100101 01110011 01110011 01100001 01100111 01100101 01011101 00100000 01011011 01010011 01100101 01110001 01110101 01100101 01101110 01100011 01100101 01011101 00100000 01001101 01101111 01101110 01110100 01100001 01101110 01100001 00101110 00100000 01010100 01101111 01100001 01110011 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110010 01110101 01101110 00101110 00100000 01000010 01110101 01110010 01101110 00100000 01101101 01100001 01101110 01111001 00100000 01110000 01100101 01101110 01101001 01110011 01100101 01110011 00101110 00100000 01011011 00101111 01010011 01100101 01110001 01110101 01100101 01101110 01100011 01100101 01011101 00100000 01011011 00101111 01001101 01100101 01110011 01110011 01100001 01100111 01100101 01011101
With love,
Robot
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
by azruavatar on Dec 26, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
"bite . . . my . . . shiny . . . metal . . . asp?"
That doesn’t make any sense.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 3:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
this is odd
funny, but odd.
Montana. Toasters to overrun. Burn many penises.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Dec 26, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He's a mechanical medusa!
No one look directly at him!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
But
I just got internet net access under my bridge.
Any how has E jack signed with anyone yet,and do we still get a draft pick when he does?
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
by mob16151 on Dec 26, 2011 3:04 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
has not signed, and yes, I believe we do.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I am a little surprised that jackson hasn't gotten
More attention. Also, the Fielder market has grown very, very quiet as it becomes clearer that the cubs are rebuilding.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 3:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm hoping Fielder lands in DC.
Though I’m a Cards fan marooned in Baltimore, I’d enjoy have one good ML team in my area. The Nats seem like one team that would reap a lot of immediate (w/in 2 years) benefit from signing Fielder.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 26, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
I was there for the last three years of high school in the mid-70s.
And I hate the DH, so I never went to an Orioles game at the old Memorial Stadium. What an ass I was. Now it’s gone, and the last time I was in Baltimore in the summer was the year Camden Yards opened, and not a ticket to be had…
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 26, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
No problem getting
tix these days! The problem (for me) is working up the courage to watch the O’s for a whole 9 innings at a time.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 26, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
Nationals are in good shape for a nice season...
They nearly finished .500 last season, even with all the Riggleman drama that served as a nice distraction for about 3 weeks. Although they overpayed in prospects, I like them getting Gio to bloster the rotation, which was already pretty good.
Tough division though, with the Braves and Phillies. If they keep trending up—and if their system keeps feeding prospects, I wouldn’t be surprised that they do—they might have a real chance in a season or two.
We do. Surpised he hasn't gotten more attention yet.
I think all these trades have hurt his market a bit. I am shocked NY and BOS havent went after him harder yet, esp after losing out on some of the bigger names…both teams could use a middle of the rotation SP like Jackson who can eat innings.
by mick311 on Dec 26, 2011 3:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The next time someone says that
“VEB, is not friendly to new members”, the last couple of days threads can be held up as an example of how willing we are to try and try and try with new members, but its all about compromise.
Bursting into song.
We let you stick around, how bad can we be?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I can't say that many have distinguished themselves here.
Quite a bit of name-calling, all caps messages shouting people down, obvious hostility and snide superiority, etc. the idea that today’s thread should be held up as an example of something good about this site is far off base, IMO.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 26, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Agree.
For people who said “Don’t feed the troll” there sure was a lot of posts. I also think people (on all forums, not just this one)should really stop with the “troll” word. I’m almost 40 and being called a name on any forum doesn’t bother me. It’s odd that people always fall back to name calling like little kids and then normally post a definition. But as I said before, this forum is no better then others. It has the same group bullying mentality. Why not just ignore him from get-go? There was baiting from the site’s side also.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 26, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
2 things
Firstly, it appears to me, that this person was not deliberatly trying to incite the anger of the masses, but rather held a stunningly incoherent belief and there were lots of posts trying to change that belief. The fact that this particular person was unable to accept the evidence and then continued to repeat the same arguments over and over is an indictment of him, not the regulars. An example of similar behaviour that played out differently; last offseason i fervently defended Skip Schumaker, since i like him as a player for reasons contrary to my otherwise statistical leanings. The arguments i had about Schumaker played themselves out and i saw no merit in continuing them. My beliefs haven’t (substantially) changed though, i’ve just stopped trying to ram them down everyone elses throats. This person could quite easily have done the same thing rather than getting banned.
Secondly; the word ‘troll’ has a very specific meaning on the internets, it isn’t exactly just name-calling.
Bursting into song.
It is just name calling. Doesn't matter if it's online or on the playground.
It’s no different then your 5 year old calling another kid a “do-do head” on the playground. It’s like the one internet theory that if an argument goes long enough someone will be compared to Hitler. The same goes for troll. Wait long enough and someone resorts to name calling with troll. As soon as I read troll I know that person has just lost the argument.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 26, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
'troll' isn't calling a person a name
just identifying them person as someone that is trying to stir up a negative response in another person. they are posting for the sole purpose of generating a (predictable) reaction.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 26, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Some do use it as name-calling though...
but you’re right too.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Maybe not many
but certainly DanUp and the other moderators. There was a lot of leniancy given and no really favouritism to people who have been here a long time.
Bursting into song.
THE ROBOT DIDN'T EVEN GET TO DO IT
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, moving on
Mo has said he may be looking for cheap utility infield help on the market. Anybody got candidates they want to throw out there?
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
Tyler Greene.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I think he meant not already in the organization.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
As it stands,
we have Furc, freese, descalso, skip, tyler. Where’s there room for more?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I didn't say it
Mo did. If he is looking I am just asking who he should be looking at.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
remove skip from your list.
Assume Descalso is the starting 2B. The bench fills out with Skip Schumaker (OF, emergency 2B), Cruz or Anderson ©, Greene (2B, SS), Craig (OF, 1B)…the 5th bench spot is up for grabs and it wouldn’t be surprising at all to see it come from outside the organization. However, if I had a say, Matt Carpenter would be the guy.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 26, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Pete Kozma
Ronny Cedeno?
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
by mob16151 on Dec 26, 2011 3:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I thought Cedeno signed somewhere?
ATL I wanna say.
by mick311 on Dec 26, 2011 3:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe
I honestly don’t know, and am to lazy to google Ronny Cedeno.
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
I think Nick Punto would be perfect.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
mo probably also meant not in boston
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I think the Dodgers may have signed every utility infielder to a two-year contract before the Winter Meetings...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
maybe bill hall as an NRI?
the problem with cheap utility infield help is that I wouldn’t want any of the candidates to get ahead of tyler greene on the depth chart.
let's sign omar vizquel to a five-year contract and
Set some age-related records!
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 3:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yes!
I’m a huge Vizquel fan. Staying in the majors year after year well into your 40s is, in its own way, a hall of fame talent. I’m hoping some team with nothing to lose picks him up and puts him at SS for two years to get to 3000
Just win
He does not deserve to go to the Hall.
In my opinion of course.
I AM ACTUALLY STLCARDSFAN4 JUST TO CLARIFY YOUR POSSIBLE CONFUSION.
Jed(d) Lowrie
Maybe we can make a deal with our old bud in Houston. Say Mitch Boggs (which they could turn into a “closer” then flip), Mark Hamilton, and Kyle McClellan for Jed. Bunch of parts we don’t need that they could use for the rights to Jedediah?
They just gave up a proven closer
to get him. Why would they flip him for someone to groom into that role – and spare parts?
Agree with the question
I don’t know if those are the right spare parts, but my thought is that the Astros are so bad even a guy like Lowrie with three years of control is not that valuable. To me the question is what you think of the three guys I mentioned. I think the familiarity that Luhnow has with the Cards system could lead him to be comfortable trading 3 years of “control” for 12 years of some selection of players the Cardinals don’t really need.
One of Luhnow’s key abilities was producing RH RPs and using them as trade currency. To me it comes down to what you think Lowrie’s value is. If he could flip Lowrie for someone who is approximately Melancon’s equivalent (which I believe is Boggs in this scenario) plus other stuff, then you are in a good place. I would think McClellan would be attractive because he is a cost controlled starting pitcher that the Cards don’t need, however, Bill James projects he would be “average” at a 3.7 ERA. If that were true it is a guy that would be valuable for a team like the Astros who could flip him for more value or keep him as a stabilizing force in the rotation after they trade away Wandy and Brett. Hamilton is a shoe in, you could pick from a variety of similar players who may have some value to other teams but are virtually useless to the Cards.
Another approach would be a simple Bryan Anderson for Jedd Lowrie trade…
I think you radically overestimate the value of Cards prospects
If you think the Astros/Luhnow would trade Lowrie straight up for Anderson, or if you think that the Astros would even want KMac or Mark Hamilton, much less in a package with Boggs for Lowrie.
The Astros have fungible bullpen arms, 5th starters (i’m being charitable to KMac) and AAAA 1st baseman – what they need is a cost-controlled SS with upside, like Lowrie.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 26, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
I Disagree
Mark Melanchon was worth 1 WAR last year (his best) and netted Lowrie +. Lowrie’s value based on a recent trade cannot be overestimated because he was traded for a 1 WAR RP with 4/5 years of cost conrol. Meaning, presumably, his value is at most 5 WAR over five years.
The Astros have a 2B and a few SPs. Beyond that they are in total rebuild mode. A SP with a 3.7 projected ERA (or a 4.2 xFIP) is not a “charitable” 5th starter on most non-contending teams. Baseball Prospectus has consistently touted Andersen as a 2nd division starter (which the Astros needs). I have heard Boggs has a Joe Nathan ceiling (in terms of pure stuff). All of these things may appeal to the Astros.
On the other hand, if they really think Lowrie has much upside (e.g. more than a latter day Mark DeRosa) then I agree then keep him and they really would believe they fleeced the Red Sox.
This is a misuse of stats, IMO.
You say Melancon was worth 1 WAR last year (his fWAR last year was .8). I don’t agree with the premise of your comparison, but let’s take it to its logical conclusion with Boggs.
Boggs was worth .3 fWAR. So Melancon is worth almost three times as much as Boggs!
Then, and though you use Melancon’s WAR to justify his trade value, you discard it when looking at KMac – perhaps because Kmac was worth -0.6 fWAR last year? That’s right – given his salary, and using your construct for Melancon – he’s worth less than nothing. He’s below replacement value and expected to earn $2.7MM next year. The Astros have scads of replacement level starters – why would they want another one, much less one who makes $2.7mm?
As for Brian Anderson – see JR Towles. Also, see Jason Castro, who when healthy, will be given the catching job in Houston.
In any event, the whole point of the Melancon/Lowrie trade from the Astros perspective was to trade a bullpen arm (the Stros have a surplus) to get a SS (the Stros don’t have one). Your proposed trade undoes the purpose of the original one, and for less value.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 27, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
And Luhnow's not an idiot like Ed Wade.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 28, 2011 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
I'd rather see us go big or go home in this case.
Either come up with a package that would land Prado (or Stephen Drew),
Or just let the people we have play for a spot in March.
Tyler Greene could be a really good player. We just don’t know.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Dec 26, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
OT: Those of you who recommended DE straight-razor shaving a month or two back, thanks!
I looked into it quite a bit, and ended up getting an Edwin Jagger model. I’ve been working with it for a week or so, and have tried a couple of different blades. I’m a convert! Thanks!
Next thing you know,
we’ll have you eating meat.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i didn't send him that big box of prime rib for no reason
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Speaking of Prime rib,
we’re doing Christmas dinner tonight, and I have a 10lber in the smoker right now. It’s gonna be delicious.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i'll be there in 3 hours
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
a wiki search on vegeterian soap
reveals that Ryan Braun might want to try out aleppo soap, if rumors are to be believed.
> tebow
So far,
it seems like the Cade is trickier to get just right, but when I do get it right, it’s a little richer and better lather than the Pre de Provence. I’m a total newb, though, so I have no idea if that will end up being accurate long-term. Also, the hardness of your tap water can affect the soaps quite a bit.
I’m still considering this after reading that discussion
by jealousblues on Dec 27, 2011 3:46 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Your comment got "All of the Lights" by Kanye West stuck in my head.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
it's a fine song to have stuck in your head
confession: it’s on my bike ride playlist and i often sing aloud (quite loud) while riding my bike
girlfriendup and I performed it no fewer than three times at various karaoke outings when I was in japan
it’s a crowd-pleaser.
He reeled me in.
Mea culpa. I know better.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
clutch clutch clutchy clutch
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Don't make me compose a sternly worded post at you.
I’ll do it. I will.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I dont think that guy was actually trolling
I think his opinions were really just that bad. There are tons of baseball fans out there that are still extremely dismissive of newer ways of thinking about baseball. I’ve heard media people dismiss a good player before just because his average with RISP was low in like 75 AB. Its crazy.
Agree.
He’s like me. Strong opinions but poor at explaining and once backed into a corner it’s all guns blazing, especially when it was 1 versus 10
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 26, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
I got the same impression
Maybe I just have a lower standard than many for VEB membership, but as long as someone can discuss baseball using complete sentences while being reasonably decent and/or light hearted, they are welcome in my book. Just because someone can’t rationally explain their positions with evidence, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be welcome and/or remain silent.
The most painful subthreads to read though, for me anyway, are ones where people just can’t seem to let an argument go. Sadly some of the site’s best stats/evidence based posters are far guiltier of this than Uncle Lights was in the past few days.
Yes, Uncle Lights deserved to banned for how he lashed out at the end and should have learned to take a hint and think about some of the constructive criticism he was receiving, but I just don’t agree with the idea of labeling someone a troll just because they consistently espouse irrational opinions. After all, many long-time VEBers today were probably dismissive of sabermetrics and/or advanced statistics earlier in our baseball fandom.
The offseason can often be long, cold, and all too bereft of baseball news. Let’s just all try to be patient and kind with seemingly ignorant newcomers while trying to bring them into the sabr-friendly world.
by bailorg on Dec 26, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
rec'd and agreed.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
While I've never fully embraced learning all the SABRmetric math,
as soon as I got here, I knew, from reading a few of the posts before I started commenting, what the community seemed to be about. Since I didn’t understand any of this stuff before coming here, I have, for the most part, kept my mouth shut about things of which I am ignorant. But then, I’m a bit older than most of the posters here, and Underwriters Laboratory just seemed, oh I don’t know, young? Belligerent? Came in with a chip on his/her shoulder?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 26, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
Different people learn in different ways
Some people like to read up, others need to talk things through, but we shouldn’t expect people to be fully formed statheads from the moment they start posting. The transition from RBI loving, pitching win espousing, and clutch believing fan to your typical VEBer usually doesn’t happen overnight. Often times, this transition shatters many of the most firmly held beliefs and/or values of traditional baseball fans. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, it’s hard to admit that some of the things taught to us about baseball from our parents, coaches, reporters, and announcers are just simply wrong. We should seek to help people along through that transition and not lash out at them and/or call them a troll when they don’t immediately accept the persuasion of stats and reason.
As I said earlier, I think we should welcome anyone who is willing to discuss baseball and be reasonably polite about it whether or not they care to believe in the advanced stats and evidence based approach most of us choose to follow.
I agree with this
but honestly want nothing to do with this whole issue so that’s the last I’ll say about it.
What’s a fun thing to do on the internet?
The key to good trolling is making people think you are serious.
He was trolling. There was no doubt about. In fact, he wasn’t even that good at hiding it.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 26, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
There should be a troll flag. There would be a lot of people here that would surprised.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 26, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
there is a troll flag
i used it today. a lot. cause the guy has been trolling from day one. i don’t appreciate this.
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
can't be both?
i think he really believed what he said, but i think he was trying to stir things up with his comments. that’s the definition of trolling, isn’t it?
Or maybe things were stirred up because no one agreed with his side?
There was fault on both sides.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 27, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
you mean WCBW?
yeah, there for a while it was. I’m thinking the ban hammer has been unleashed, though. It seemed like the other mods really wanted to wait for Azru, since he takes so much joy in it, but then he said this:
I hate to even bring it up at this point.. buy you guys are probably for more instant replay as well. Let’s take the human element out of the game and even go to electronic strike zones….for that matter lets just simulate the seasons on a computer.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 26, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Reminds me of that episode of Star Trek
Where the people in that star system fought wars entirely by computer and people had to voluntarily submit themselves for execution,
I am all for better understanding of baseball through statistics, but I think I would draw the line at computer simulated games.
Not that I am suggesting anyone is advocating that.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
There are precisely zero people advocating that
and to draw the line between replay, which is simply getting the actual real-life calls correct, and replacing the game with a computer simulation is ridiculous.
I am completely against replay, especially as it's being used now.
Either do it, or don’t.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I didn't think there was.
I just haven’t been around a long time, so I wasn’t sure.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
Strat-O-Matic FTW?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 26, 2011 7:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Played S-O-M computer game in a league for about 5 years
it was fun, up to a point. Then it wasn’t.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 26, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Well obviously thats what VEB wants, really
I know I’ve decided to stop watching the actual games and simply celebrate if “MLB 11: The Show” forcasts a Cardinals World Series win.
I thought westcoastbirdwatcher was a little more sabermetrically inclined than that
This was clearly codyg making fun of us
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 3:37 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Holliday is amazingly consistent
Thanks for the article!
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 3:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
First post
and great article. Can’t wait for the new era of Cardinals baseball to begin!
by stlwildcats on Dec 26, 2011 3:27 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Just watching the end of Game 7
After the last out, there’s a shot of Mo pointing to the crowd, blowing a kiss, then flashing a peace sign.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 3:30 PM EST reply actions
Mo is a badass.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Know it's not a gif, but it's at the end of this video.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19960231&c_id=mlb
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 2:54 AM EST up reply actions
.
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 27, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
I love you all, my peeps.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 27, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
it's like he's trying to finish that one last peanut
before acknowledging the crowd.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
I noticed that too.
Mo!!! I love that he isn’t trading away all of our prospects and have faith that he will dump one of Westy/Lohse (eating half salary in either case).
On the Westy/Lohse front I assume?
B/C the truth is I never mind trading prospects as long as it is a fair deal. For example, I would be all for a Mike Trout for Shelby Miller challenge trade (although my guess is we would need to kick something else in)…
for four and five starters I don’t see what the problem with them is.
we have certainly had much worse
I could see if you are getting a star ARM or whatever but I don’t see that happening
by jealousblues on Dec 27, 2011 3:52 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Well, since FSMW blacked me out yesterday,
I’m dusting off the DVR to watch game 6.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Random note:
If you use VLC during Christmastime, its little traffic cone icon wears a Santa hat.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 3:55 PM EST reply actions
Heh, yeah. Love those guys.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
This is my favorite YouTube channel these days
http://www.youtube.com/user/TrueYankeeforever?feature=watch#g/u
Someone posted his Beltran highlights on here a few days back, but there are TONS of players on there.
We’ll see how long they stay up.
Berk needs less woman-beater music in the background. Just sayin'
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
Also, needs moar star wipes.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 2:21 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
yeah i stumbled across that
when searching for beltran highlights. its awesome though, highly reccomend mike stanton
Know what else I'd like to see a DVD movie of?
Night of Game 162.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 4:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
that would be great
I’d probably also read a last-day-of-the-season book.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 26, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Preferrably based on the movie. A book inspired by a movie inspired by a game.
Hm, yes.
Still not a werewolf.
buzz bissinger is calling his agent about a new
Book. Working title: “one motherf***ing night in october, c********s.”
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 26, 2011 4:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
ALSO
YES. YES. YES.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Sports Illustrated had an article about that night.
Might want to check that out.
I AM ACTUALLY STLCARDSFAN4 JUST TO CLARIFY YOUR POSSIBLE CONFUSION.
Glad you did, I was coming up empty.
It’s an excellent video.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
yeah.
god, i forget how absolutely ridiculous that night was. if someone was to tell me that night that only a few weeks later i would be even more overwhelmed by baseball, i’d tell them they were tripping.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
in the best approximation i can do of a neutral context sports fan, that is undoubtedly the best night of sports i have ever seen
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
i love carp
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 26, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Carp that night was unf'inbelievable.
Even when adjusting for the Astros, he was dealing terror and pain. When the game ended he was looking for more batters to destroy.
And then everything else happened.
I wish Houston had thrown the Atlanta game on the bigscreen for us, but instead we took over the bars across the street.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
YES. YES. YES.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
I'd just like to relive from about a week before that through Game 7 of the World Series.
Just watching the highlights has gotten me pumped.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:08 AM EST up reply actions
This thread is unbearable shift A
I made it maybe halfway. I know the mods are trying to be reasonable but this is as blatant as trolling gets.
He hates the cardinals best player
Cubs fan?
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2011 4:27 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
same here
I’m feeling kind of bad for the guy, but that’s probably because I skipped half the thread
by hr on Dec 26, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think the thread has been cleaned up
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Holiday breaking up double play against Cubs
I remember seeing that game on ESPN Sunday Night baseball. The ESPN announcers just hated that play…hated, hated, hated it. They complained about it the rest of the game like it was the dirtiest play in the history of baseball, but I don’t doubt that if it had been a Cub runner taking out a Cardinal infielder, that would have been good old hard-nosed baseball
I got THE HAT
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 26, 2011 4:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Its still an entertaining sig
just wait until something better comes along… or Volsn loses a bet
Bursting into song.
Welcome to THE CLUB!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Does it help that this guy is no longer on the Cardinals
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Rewatching 6 and 7 last night
I finally enjoyed having Ryan Theriot on the team.
I hated seeing him play outside of 14-1 games, 15 inning games, and things like that, for 8 months. But it was nice to finally be able to laugh at his PAs, enjoy seeing him in the dugout, and so forth because I knew it was the last time I’d see him in a Cardinals uniform until the next time I see 2011 highlights and can smile for the rest of my life.
I feel bad because he looks so innocent in the picture you posted. I’m sure he’s a fine fellow, but I am so happy I don’t have to watch him as a Cardinals player any longer.
I'm still glad his comments rang true.
When he said something like “it’s nice to be on the right side of the rivalry now”. And then they won the WS.
That will always make me like him just a little. Not that it had anything to do with him, but it was a dig at the cubs back in like April and it culminated in the ultimate prize. heh.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
And always will be what it never wasn't.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:10 AM EST up reply actions
I wonder if anyone asked him to sign their jorts
by jealousblues on Dec 27, 2011 3:56 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
as soon as he was used in an appropriate manner
he became a valuable member of our team. I had no problem seeing him playing 2B against LHP.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Oh, get over it
It’s not like we’ve replaced him with a comparably mediocre to weak hitting shortstop who’s losing range, is injury prone, isn’t cost controlled, is signed to a multi-year deal, who we most likely bought high on, and whose best days are likely behind him.
Boog would have made that play.
I disagree that Furcal's hitting is comparable
to Ryan’s; it’s decidedly better. And “multi” is only two years in this case, at a reasonable amount. Even with Furcal’s higher salary, I think I’d rather have him for the next two years over Ryan.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
you don't tell me what to do!
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
By saying "you don't tell me what to do!"
aren’t you, in turn, telling your target what they can (or cannot) do?
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
I had a conversation with my cousins at Christmas
about why Boog was better than Theriot and that I was sad that he wasn’t on the team last year. I knew it was not going to work, but I put up a good fight. I decided to just leave it alone when he said that Skip was going to be great coming off the bench.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
bgh: Thanks for a great post and a great look back on his performance
Looking forward, I see 2012 as the year Matt Holliday gets recognized as a superstar by the national audience. No longer in the shadow of Pujols and Helton he will be recognized as the best player on a contending team. No longer dogged by fluke injuries/maladies, he is likely to return to his 2006-10 average of 153 games played which will lead to an improvement in the counting stats tracked by the national media. I’m cautiously optimistic of an OPS above his career NL mark of .938 and a Top 3 MVP finish. I see him getting kudos for clubhouse leadership ( i.e. Freese), baserunning, and solid, if unspectacular, defense. Can’t wait for the season to start!
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 26, 2011 5:08 PM EST reply actions
I agree offensively, barring injury, we should be pretty damn good. We'll have Waino and an improved bullpen, and no Theriot in site
11 in 11' √
12 in 12', WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 26, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I thank/curse azruavatar for linking to Kingdom Rush
It is very fun and, as the robot said, surprisingly difficult. I just got to a point where I’m forced to adapt and think more strategically. Argh.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I'm stuck on the level with fire elementals and necromancers.
Let me know when you get there because I’m really struggling. Also, I wish they would let you look at your tower layout after the fact when you lose. It would really help me to better determine where my system failed.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
I think you're further in the game than me
I just now finished beating the seventh level for three stars (I’ve been going back to get that third star at each one so far).
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
So far when I've had trouble I have been able to figure out something inefficient about my strategy on the particular level
and it makes it much easier the next go around (the unit improvement obviously help too).
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
i second that, i just started it today and oh my
it’s a time black hole and i enjoy it enormously
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Can someone repost? I must have missed this.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:13 AM EST up reply actions
here
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Thanks
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
So
the cubs have signed that guy who was league average for the rays that one time in 2008
Bursting into song.
Weird pitch profile.
Appears to have completely ditched his fastball in favor of a cutter. Anyway, this is as good an anecdotal example as any as to why you should be concerned about velocity.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Most excellent post, Matt Holiday has always been my favorite Card since we picked him
up, just love his hard nose play..
by Tuning in from Korea on Dec 26, 2011 6:06 PM EST reply actions
Dammit... I never extended the recording on game six.
Only got to the bottom of the eighth. Can anyone tell me how it ends?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Tino Martinez steps out of the shower
and we realize it was all a dream.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Patrick Duffy as Tino Martinez ?
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 26, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Or Tony LaRussa wakes up in his office in Oakland-Almeda Coliseum
and he realizes it’s all been a dream.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Tony: Dunc? Dunc..wake up. You just won’t believe the dream I just had. Don’t you want to hear about it?
Dunc: Okay, okay, Tony. What is it?
Tony: I was a manager in this baseball crazy city in Missouri
Dunc: I’m happy for you, Tony. Good-night.
Tony: Nothing made sense in this place! The left fielder looked like Lego, the ace yelled fuck every three minutes, and the shortstop keep missing the point of playing defense. And there were these three prospects….only one of them hit homeruns.
Dunc: That’s settles it, Tony. No more Japanese food for you before you go to bed. (Turns over)
Tony: And…and we just won the World Series as a wild card.
Dunc: Go back to sleep, Tony….Wait, the World Series?
Tony: Go to sleep, Dave. Oh, and you should wear more red.
No more turtle soup before bed, Tony
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Hmm... good question
I always assumed he cared more about puppies and kittens than other animals, but maybe he is.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Yorvit Torrealba whacked an umpire in the face in a Venezuelan League game
Was suspended for 66 games. Suspension doesn’t carry over to MLB.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
Does the Venezuelan League even HAVE 66 games in a season?
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 26, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
He's banned until 2017.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
(I am completely making that up.)
It’s actually about a season’s worth of games.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Article says it equals rest of this season and all of next season.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
anyone know why he did it
I saw a video the other day
and I didn’t see anything crazy
by jealousblues on Dec 27, 2011 4:02 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Shift A
Looks like I picked a good day to go shopping.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
If you're looking for the Blues game,
they’re on Versus tonight.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 7:01 PM EST reply actions
This is from Whitey's Boys a book by Rob Rains and Alvin Reid:
Corey Patterson, the center fielder for the Cubs, grew up across the street and ofter works out and takes batting pracice in the cage in [Bruce] Sutter’s house
Weird.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 26, 2011 7:12 PM EST reply actions
So we can blame Bruce for what some may say
is the best plate discipline in the land?
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
\mm/
I'm guessing this takes place in Atlanta?
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 26, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
Man, United had a big romp over Wigan 5-0.
Since Park scored a goal, it most likely will be re-telacast this afternoon.
by Tuning in from Korea on Dec 26, 2011 7:24 PM EST reply actions
Haha
Great game, plus City failed to score against WBA, which is laughable and it is arguable that they were second best, which is even better!
Bursting into song.
Yep, for the United side, looks like Berbatov, (I'm going to stealing a VEB line), was unleashed,
scored 3 of the 5 goals.
I’ll watch that this afternoon.
by Tuning in from Korea on Dec 26, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
Berbatov
is always seemingly forgotten about, then has a big game.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 26, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
Probably nexdef'd, new The xx:
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 7:55 PM EST reply actions
clearly just a throwaway but still very pretty
and considering how starved i am to hear new stuff from the xx, i’ll probably be listening to it a bunch leading up to their new album.
Yeah, it's just a teaser.
Consider me teased.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
i feel like this could be really good with a touch of Jamie xx
shows just how much excess talent they have. Another band that just makes me feel totally unaccomplished with how young they are.
Friends don't let friends zumba while drunk.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Or Zima, ever.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed.
Though it’s still popular in Japan.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Heh. Look for Joe Buck at the glass behind the Blues net.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 8:04 PM EST reply actions
OT: DGoold mentioned to Spags while he was co-hosting the Fast Lane today that
the Rams have a better attendance record this season than the Bengals despite the Bengals much better record. To which Spags attributed that fact to the “intelligible St Louis sports fan”
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 8:12 PM EST reply actions
I haven't been there in forever, but Cincinnati doesn't strike me as that big a sports town
Reds attendance has been pretty lukewarm for the longest time
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 26, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
but except for 2010, so have the Reds
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
like you can trust any city that loves this crap.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Thar be chili under that cheese.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
and it's got a lot of cinnamon in it.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Steak N Shake menu staple!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
This is true.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Gah. This stuff sounds like it would make a slinger look elegant in comparison.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
nothing wrong with raw white onion
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Slice of it on a 1/2-pound
cheeseburger? Little bit ’o heaven.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 27, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
And I'm assuming you're talking about a full slice
not a ring or two, but a solid disk of white onion.
And I agree.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Heaven on earth with an onion slice?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
(It's kinda like the Imo's debate.)
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
AMERICA!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
i'd eat that.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
not entirely true.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
fang eats everything, but nothing eats fang?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 27, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
well shit gdm, i'm not a miracle worker
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 27, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
it's the cinnamon
you can taste it for hours after you eat it, accompanied by a general feeling of unease.
not recommended.
I eat my chili out of a bowl
not off of a plate. Also, onions are probably my most hated vegetable.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I pretty much hate all vegetables, weird I know
I like taters, green beans, the occasional carrot…thats about it. As for onions, its a texture kinda thing.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
i'm really sorry about that.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
i'm no fan of cincinnati (grew up near it)
but skyline chili is amazing. a lot of people get hung up on the idea that chili isn’t supposed to look like this. fine, call it something else inside your head then. the chili is more of a chili sauce, and definitely is heavy on cinnamon and chocolate flavors. you can add onions (as shown here) or red beans if you like, but i like the chili and cheese over spaghetti noodles without the other toppings. chili cheese conies are the other item you can get, plus salads and the like, though i’ve never actually seen salads ordered. i love cinnamon, and thus i love the chili. so there!
chili on spaghetti with onions and cheese is amazing
fuck all the haters, i think the pic above looks good.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 26, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
(maybe a little heavy on the cheese) ((but really, can you be heavy on cheese))
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 26, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
don't judge a city by its food
it’s not that bad :x
by hr on Dec 26, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
oh jesus, what have you done?
here comes the St. Louis style pizza debate
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
I just had some imos and i must admit cincy style chili is actually better than stl style pizza
But sss since ive only had imos
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 27, 2011 1:48 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I have never understood the whole
‘thin pizza sucks!" mentality. I’ve had some thin crust pizza that is damned good. We have a pizza place in town that is really good at it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 27, 2011 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
Thin crust or no crust!
no wait, I don’t want pizza with no crust. Sauce and toppings only? No thanks.
I should’ve said, “I like thin crust pizza”
Still not a werewolf.
you've been up for a while again, haven't you?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 27, 2011 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
heh
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 27, 2011 2:12 AM EST up reply actions
Don't look at me.
I didn’t create pizza.
Love, Jesus
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 27, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
what do you do with all that shorthand cheese?
just throw it on the table?
is it there just to keep the heat in
by jealousblues on Dec 27, 2011 4:04 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Cincinnati is the asshole of mediocrity.
by purple_haze on Dec 26, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
well that's just not very nice.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
i spent some of my precious time reading red reporter this morning
it did not put me in a charitable mood toward the whole concept of cincinnati
by purple_haze on Dec 26, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Tackle Box's sig applies here ;)
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
sounds like something brandon phillips would tweet.
let’s not.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
We really are fantastic enunciators.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the bungles are HUGE down there, for some reason people really love them
every game is on tv so they at least sell out & aren’t blocked out. i don’t know how the lambs draw more fans
Balls
Statistical Lookup Help Please
Does anyone know where I can find out a player’s career FIP, but only for one team. For example, Bob Forsch only played 43 of his 498 games on another team other than the Cardinals…but I only want his FIP for the Cards.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Oh, cool. How do you see it on FanGraphs?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
You have to sort by team...
then expand the years to all of the years the player played for the organization.
It's a bummer that
B-Ref doesn’t list FIP (because they calc all per-team stats for you) or FanGraphs doesn’t calc per-team stats.
I guess you could calc it yourself with the basic formula (HR*13+(BB+HBP-IBB)3-K2)/IP + 3.2). The 3.2 at the end is meant to be a league (and season) factor, 3.2 is a ballpark.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
I forbid anti-Forsch stats.
Please pad them if necessary.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 26, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
I have Forsch listed as the
22nd best (of 32) starting pitchers with 150 or more starts in St. Louis Cardinals franchise history.
I'm sure you meant 2nd and not 22nd, Sir.
And that’s 2 time Silver Slugger , 1980 league leader in walks per 9 and 3 career stolen bases Mr. Forsch to you. . Put that in your formula and smoke it, Mr. I Kill Childhood Heroes.
Kidding of course. Where’s your breakdown? I’d love to read it. Thanks for putting it together.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 28, 2011 5:55 AM EST up reply actions
So I stumbled upon the throwback on field hat today...
Could someone remind me why I live in Chicago again? I don’t find any cool things to put on my head around here.
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
\mm/
Who asked you...
Basically I stumbled upon this hat. I was lamenting why I live in Chicago cause I can’t find badass things like this on a daily basis… It should also be noted I’ve finished a growler and it’s Maker’s Monday…
"…this crowd is on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner." - Mike Shannon
\mm/
I've been watching Game 2 of the World Series
trying to catch myself in the stands, but no luck. And now the, “why the fuck is Old Man Rhodes coming in” moment
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 9:45 PM EST reply actions
where we're going, we don't need roads.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 26, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
where were you in the stands?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
RF corner near the foul pole, about 5 rows back
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Good ol' fashioned pugilistic fun on the ice tonight.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 9:46 PM EST reply actions
just got a text from a friend at the Blues game
So Taguchi is in attendance
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 9:53 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Oh, awesome.
B.J. Rains @BJRains
Former Cardinal outfielder So Taguchi is getting a standing ovation at the Blues game. Not sure why he is here, but he is. Wow.
Crowd literally erupted and immediately gave So Taguchi a loud standing ovation. He took off his hat and kept waving. Crowd went nuts. Cool.
Really wish this wasn’t a national game now.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 9:54 PM EST reply actions
We still love you So!
B.J. Rains @BJRains
Should mention that Taguchi and his kid were both wearing Blues hats. Crazy and unexpected scene at Scottrade. Gotta love Tags.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
I was there and it was fabulous
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 27, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
So cool.
Did you happen to take a pic? Since the game was on Versus, they didn’t even cover it on post-game.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 27, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately, no
It happened so quick. They showed him and the crowd went insane almost immediately. People kept cheering and getting louder so he eventually stood up and gave his patented ‘thank you’
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 27, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Would be cool if So
is in town to negotiate his new contract as a far East scout for the Birds?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 26, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
I would love this
if the whole posting system didn’t suck.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
It would be more of a personal service contract for So
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 26, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure he's done playing for Orix yet.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Get him a red jacket, take a picture, send it to Pujols
and tell him to go ef himself!
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Seems like it would've been a good one to go too.
I had a couple friends posting pics on FB from their seats.
I like that the Blues are starting to be competitive again and not being killed by injuries.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 26, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
You are welcome, VEB
“Taguchi elapsed after surgery for athletes,” Report (10/22/2011)
14 days away, We report the successful completion of the athletes Taguchi right shoulder surgery. Now gradually eased postoperative fever and pain, leading up to begin rehabilitation of Kobe.
In the future this site, but occasionally, we will update the status of the players Taguchi.
Taguchi player “Kimono Award” Winner (11/23/10)
“Kimono Living Network” (Tsutomu Hata representative) chooses to award the 8th kimono was chosen players mouth. From the world’s first sport, past winners, Mr. Tamao Nakamura, Ryoko Yonekura, and Aya Ueto Irasshaimasu. The award ceremony will be held in Tokyo on December 11.HP kimono Life Network
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 10:13 PM EST reply actions
can't wait to debut my new signature tomorrow!
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 10:14 PM EST reply actions
email it to me.
i’d rather it not be made public until i post.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
How you like?
Tried the SBNation app yet?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
You can try the direct link, that's what I had to use for my tablet
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
the app is pretty awesome
i wish it was synced with your account with the non-mobile version though.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 26, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
This, tired of having to double-z
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:21 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, it doesn't get Market at all?
That’s a bummer.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
the amazon one
So yes and no. Ill just make do until one of you give me a work around. (Not reach around!)
Yeah, the Amazon market is nice,
but only as a supplement to the official one.
I guess there could be an .apk file floating around, but I don’t know if you can install them directly on a Fire or not.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
ask and ye shall
by prophetjohn on Dec 26, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
but you'll take one of those too.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
what a bunch of spoiled brats.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
I got an iphone but I paid for it
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 26, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Same here
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:23 AM EST up reply actions
reading that just made me want to go kick a teenager in the butt
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
this is what happens when you don't keep score in little league.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
by SleepyCA on Dec 26, 2011 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
where the hell do they do that?
We’d have a full on revolt here if they did that.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
I think my son's league didn't in
kindergarten and 1st, but did after that.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
tee-ball? I can see that.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
No way, my tee-ball league kept score and my team eviscerated everyone else.
If they hadn’t where else would I have gotten my air of superiority?
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:24 AM EST up reply actions
when confrontation became a bad word
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 27, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
speaking of something i won't ever have a problem doing.
like someone above me said, people suck.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 27, 2011 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
a few years ago
a guy I know that lives another town said that the parents were having a hard time making their kids come home at night, even during the school week. My reaction was ’Take their new fucking cars away from them.".
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 27, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
I say "no" to my daughter all the time
The problem is that pretty much nobody else does.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I don't think this indicates that parents are becoming their kids' best friend
Just that kids now have a worldwide public forum on which to bitch about their parents.
by mojowo11 on Dec 27, 2011 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right
A certain percentage of kids have hated their parents for generations. They just have more public and creative ways to express their hatred.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 27, 2011 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
that's part of it, yes
but the general sense of entitlement probably is something of a more recent vintage. Kids have always wanted toys, of course, but no generation of kids has probably ever been subjected to the same degree of social pressures, targeted advertising, etc. etc. that instill the sense that all kids are entitled to such things.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
I certainly think there are an increasing number of parents who seem to think kids can run their own lives
They seem to think that it’s good practice to let their kids be decision makers about what to eat and what to do at a disturbingly young age. They seem to think they are teaching their kids responsibility, but instead are raising a bunch of kids who think the world will bend to their every desire and throw fits and/or act completely surprised whenever things don’t go their way.
I don't disagree with you but.....
“What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?”
The above from Plato 428 – 348 BC
“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority, they show disrespect to their elders…. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and are tyrants over their teachers.”
That was from Socrates 469 – 399 BC
“The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress.”
The last one is from Peter the Hermit 1050- 1115 AD
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 27, 2011 2:30 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
It’s Mike Keenan!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 10:31 PM EST reply actions
or albert pujols
…oh wait
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 26, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
How is So Taguchi anything at all like Yu Darvish?
(besides the fact that Yu Darvish is 1/2 Japanese)
by hangingfromatree on Dec 27, 2011 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
Happy December 26th/27th everyone
Gave the 2011 World Series Game 6 a viewing today.
Down by 2 in the bottom of the 10th with Descalso, Jay, and Edwin Jackson or Kyle Lohse due to hit.
What glorious fun this game was.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 26, 2011 11:17 PM EST reply actions
After many months I finally watched the final episode of Rescue Me
I’m sort of sad its over but I don’t think they could’ve done much more with the show.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 26, 2011 11:20 PM EST reply actions
Had such high hopes for that show in the beginning.
It went down hill fast for me.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 27, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Loved
this dude as a Rockie. Not so much as a Card, but that’s only cause he’s so good and playing for a division rival :P. Merry Christmas VEB!
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 26, 2011 11:22 PM EST reply actions
If McCutchen Is The Truth
then is Pedro Alvarez a Magic Eight Ball?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
Pedro
is…. a Wii. Looks cool. Doesn’t deliver. Hopefully we can still “trade” him in for a 360.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 27, 2011 2:39 AM EST up reply actions
Haha
last Zelda game I played was Ocarina of Time
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 27, 2011 3:23 AM EST up reply actions
I know that I may sound like a broken record
but I just finished watching my Christmas gift from 2 years ago. I have a truly irrational love of Farscape. Damn, that was a great show.
my wife got me a pretty cool gift this year, Season 1 of Human Target. I keep hoping somebody will pick that one up again.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 26, 2011 11:32 PM EST reply actions
DREWWWW BREEEEEES
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 26, 2011 11:39 PM EST reply actions
Your daily December Christmas Holiday song:
Butterfly Boucher – Cinnamon and Chocolate
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 26, 2011 11:45 PM EST reply actions
Oh, this is interesting
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 27, 2011 12:15 AM EST reply actions
I always liked Gruden, but have nothing to assert why I feel that way
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 27, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
If nothing else he'd be more interesting then the snoozefest that is Spags
everything about Spags is boring.
but...4 pillars!
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 27, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
yeah the full article from the SD guy
He makes it sound like its a done deal if Smith is fired then Smith+Gruden to STL
I haven't been around as much lately,
but have we seen Y2S since the prophetjohn feud?
Still not a werewolf.
no.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 27, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think he's been around at all lately, no.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 27, 2011 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
was the pj feud the one that involved a 2-day ban?
‘cause I still don’t know who was banned for the 2 days….hint, hint
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 27, 2011 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
no it was much further ago
SBN search indicates he hasn’t been back since the feud, and that was on the 12th. Holy smokes.
COME BACK Y2S
Still not a werewolf.
the PJ feud and the 2 day banning happened on the same day.
they aren’t related, i don’t think. that was the day VEB went to hell.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 27, 2011 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
No, different days. The pressure started building the 12th, and the 14th was the day it blew up.
Still not a werewolf.
i take it you know more about the two day bannee/events that led up to it than i do?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 27, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
um someones a bit too sensitive if he really left over something like that
isn’t he one of the most frequent posters on this site? if he really wants to leave over an “internet feud” i wouldn’t really beg for him to come back or anything.
DON'T LISTEN, Y2S.
I figure he’ll come back in awhile. It is the offseason and this place has been a madhouse, after all.
Still not a werewolf.
haha i mean im not saying don't come back
but people who do the butt hurt thing in general shouldn’t be given attention which is what they usually want. not saying that is what happened in this case, just in general.
Butt hurt is the lamest phrase of all time
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 27, 2011 1:52 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I guess it can be used in more polite company than 'red-assed'.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 27, 2011 2:03 AM EST up reply actions
Its lazy and in poor taste
Imo
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 27, 2011 2:20 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I've had enough of your Imo's bashing.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 27, 2011 2:23 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Y2S
VEB needs you… Return asap
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 27, 2011 1:51 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
this
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 27, 2011 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
I missed this, what were they feuding over?
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:28 AM EST up reply actions
Oh okay, never been consistent enough before to really notice these things.
Or maybe I just don’t care enough, not enough grit.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:31 AM EST up reply actions
Sometimes when everyone else has gone to bed
I stay up, eating tortilla chips and lurking on various Ankiel profile pages.
Here’s the top 3 defensive plays from the 2011 season
http://www.federalbaseball.com/2011/10/27/2514703/ankiel-highlight-reel
Still not a werewolf.
Got to admit.
He has a hell of an arm.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
I don't root for any ex-Cardinal
harder than I do for Ankiel. The scars that he must have. Good luck Rick.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 27, 2011 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
Would be weird if he returns
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 27, 2011 2:21 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
That would be cool
We should cut Skip and sign Ankiel.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
Yep
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 27, 2011 2:41 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Personally, I think Rick needs to stay as far away from St. Louis as he can.
Too much history, and none of it is good history.
Well, the bad far outweighs the good.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
Im fine with that too
Was excited about the skip dfa
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 27, 2011 5:22 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
oh look I found a collection
looks like Chitown found it too
http://passion4baseball.blogspot.com/2011/08/rick-ankiel-can-throw-little-bit.html
Still not a werewolf.
Whoa. Over at Halos Heaven, one of their top rules is a once a month maximum on "fuck" usage.
I wonder if how well that’s followed.
Still not a werewolf.
Can you save 'em up
and go on an epic 12-fuck rant?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 27, 2011 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
This is what I would do. Or perhaps I would just quote and Ozzie Guillen one.
Wait what if they are quotes, or are in reference to Carpenter, is there an exemption? Cause there should be.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:33 AM EST up reply actions
I like that rule.
Makes for thoughtful use of the word.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 27, 2011 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
it really makes it feel important.
not obligatory.
fuck.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
nope.
In their code of conduct section on the main page:
The Five Most Important are:
1. Use the F-word once a month maximum
2. No T&A pictures. No exceptions
3. No Ticket Sales
4. No posting pictures in game threads
5. FanPost Headlines MUST convey the Subject
Still not a werewolf.
No pictures in game threads?
Savages.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 27, 2011 2:38 AM EST up reply actions
I guess we'll have to find out in spring training.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 27, 2011 2:59 AM EST up reply actions
psh, I'm not joining Halos Heaven.
They’re the only AL West team for which I don’t harbor a little affection.
Still not a werewolf.
Even just to break the rules?
(delete this thread)
by hangingfromatree on Dec 27, 2011 3:04 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure what this is from....
Reminds me of a movie I saw a long time ago. It was rated PG-13 and the two main characters were talking about PG-13 movies only being able to use fuck once, and the quote in reaction was something like, “You know what I say to that, fuck that.”
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:43 AM EST up reply actions
Related
Halos Heaven would like to remind you
There are ladies, children and even some hot chicks here on occasion, so keep it PG-13
Still not a werewolf.
Heard the same about Dodge Ball.
Very last scene was “Fuck Chuck Norris” or something along those lines.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 27, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Buster Olney did not put us in his top 10 rotations in baseball. Blasphemy!
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 27, 2011 3:34 AM EST reply actions
great stuff BGH, really really great
i have a theory as to why way too many fans don’t like Lego. they keep comparing him to Albert Pujols, and i don’t care who you are, unless you’re dead & in the HOF, that’s absolutely unfair. they see Albert being Albert & then 1 out of 5 times Lego swings at the first pitch & grounds out & they’re livid. that’s why they won’t let the ball to the jingle bells in 09 go.
for the two & a half years they played together Lego was his protection & many fans don’t understand what that meant. it meant the line up was deeper & everyone’s job was automatically improved & made a little easier. it didn’t mean every time Albert was pitched around Lego would hit a double or a home run. but that’s exactly what they expected him to do & that’s totally & completely unfair. Albert Pujols couldn’t even hit behind Albert Pujols & do that, so why should the fans expect Lego, who’s a great player but not other worldly like Albert has been, do that? maybe it was TLR’s constant reminder since 06 Albert needed “protection” or maybe it was his $120 mill contract. maybe it’s a combo of both and/or some more reasons. i don’t know. all i know is we have the best LF in the game & there’s a large portion of the fan base who hates him, and i have absolutely no idea how they can hate him. it’s really f’ing crazy.
whatever the reasons, be they sane or most likely bat crap, here’s hoping Lego finally get’s some love from those fans these next five years now that he is out of Albert’s shadow.
Balls
by gdm426 on Dec 27, 2011 3:51 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
spot on.
Also, the fact that TLR batted MH and Albert in the wrong order due to Albert’s ego issues didn’t help, either.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
TLR used to say it was because the 3rd spot go more at bats during a game
so he wanted Albert to have as many chances as he could to inflict some damage
Balls
So bat Albert leadoff.
That’s max “damage”, in that context (and the correct answer). Or second- that’s a lot of damage, too. Guy with a .400+ obp hits maybe 40 HR per year, but he gets on base 280ish times. Put 280 runners on for fucking ryan theriot, he’ll get close to 100 RBI.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
I really believe Mo missed out on starting pitching.
Would love to have seen us in on Darvish.
Waino is coming back post surgery, what he is going to look like is not absolute.
Carp is not getting younger.
Jaime was, well, cromulent. Maybe he stays a solid 3 guy, maybe he doesn’t.
Lohse had the lowest ERA of any sp on the cards.
Westbrook be westbrookin’
yeah, well, that's just like, my opinion, man
You're underselling Jaime
In theory I agree that it would be prudent to upgrade the rotation, with Carpenter’s age and Waino’s injury. Unfortunately the team has all these contracts, and they do not have a history of moving expensive starters to the bullpen or trading guys with no-trade protection.
Also, I’m not even sure I would want to go the Darvish route. He’d be a very expensive and long-term commitment, which makes little sense to me since he’s a starting pitcher, and starting pitching is our main strength in the minors.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Not to mention Darvish is still a pretty big risk because nobody can really predict how we he's going to do in the majors
I think it’s clear he’s very good and should be better than Matsuzaka, probably better than Kuroda. Will he be a solid 3-4 WAR pitcher? A 5-6 WAR ace? That will determine if he’s an overpay or not.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
seems like darvish is actually, really, better than Matsuzaka
from the scouting reports, and from his stats in Japan.
OTOH, the “scouting reports” at the time had Matsuzaka throwing some kind of “gyroball” thingy that MLB had never seen, and it made our collective balls shrink, since he could clearly K us at will. And the Red Sox overpaid. and pretty much everyone expected either the Red Sox, or the Yankees, to overpay, from the outset.
I actually really hope the Blue Jays got this one right.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Just to be clear, I meant that the ideal would be to replace Westbrook or both Westbrook and Lohse
Although I think they could both end up being cromulent next year.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Itll be interesting to see how many innings garcia pitches
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 27, 2011 11:01 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Fredbird doesn't speak
He does try to suck your soul out of your body through head though.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 27, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
I hate mondays.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 27, 2011 10:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
same difference.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 27, 2011 10:43 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
why did he say that?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Anybody who has twitter (better if I'm following you) willing to edit my baseball-related paper?
(Twitter so I can send you my paper).
I AM ACTUALLY STLCARDSFAN4 JUST TO CLARIFY YOUR POSSIBLE CONFUSION.
there's this thing called email
you may have heard of it
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 27, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
ridgesee
has been promoted to the front page.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 27, 2011 11:57 AM EST reply actions
and yet you still see people complaining about Matt for some reason
and people saying how much he is overpaid
I don’t get it
by jealousblues on Dec 27, 2011 2:44 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Just got a lego Matt Holliday as a late Christmas gift
a pretty random gift since I’m 24 and my parents probably don’t know about the meme, but it’s awesome nonetheless.
So imo
The lesson here is that clutch is unquantifiable, and that its not a big enough factor to make or break a player
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 28, 2011 11:03 AM EST via Android app reply actions
I place clutch, momentum, leadership and "clubhouse presence" all in the same category
of not worth discussing because they make little if any impact.
I liken it to magic tricks, people know you didn’t pull a rabbit out of your ass but they still WANT to believe it and still go back to watch even after they know how you did it.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 28, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
At the major league level, it's probably negligible.
If it were an issue, it probably would have weeded out the player before the top level.
Although, Rick Ankiel might be either the example but is probably the exception to the rule where his talent was so great, he could disguise his stress levels. But once the stress was too great…..boom.
This life's hard, man, but it's harder if you're stupid.
- Jackie Brown
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