Refreshing our picture of the Cardinals post-Carlos Beltran
by DanUpBaby on Dec 23, 2011 8:02 AM EST
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Now the Cardinals can hit. Even more than they could before. This is a slugging team that doesn't feel like a slugging team, because nobody's a guarantee to hit 30 home runs, and it's an old lineup that doesn't feel like an old lineup, because only one of the stars arrived on a long-term contract—Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, and Jimmy Rollins are much younger, combined, than a Carlos Beltran/Matt Holliday/Lance Berkman center-of-the-order, but they feel older because the Phillies have staked themselves to that team until a distant future where old-timers reminisce about how didn't there used to be flying bullpen cars.
Now the Albert Pujols Dividend for 2012 and 2013 is just about spent, if you want to look at it that way—Beltran and Rafael Furcal leave John Mozeliak just enough room to trade for Rafael Furcal next year around the deadline. The results are nice—the Cardinals took positions that they were willing to fill with cheap, homegrown talent and shored them up with aging, injury-prone, and potentially difference-making veterans. It's a different kind of risk from the one that lurked throughout the Pujols negotiations, and it will probably be more fun to live with on a day-to-day basis.
Now the Cardinals' fourth outfielder is much better! We last saw Jon Craig/Allen Jay when he was the penciled-in right fielder prior to last year's Astros reclamation project, Lance Berkman, signing up to play 126 exceedingly unlikely games in the outfield. Now he's the starter in Carless Field and the fourth outfielder, which is a significant improvement on Skip Schumaker.
(Now the Cardinals' decision to resign Skip Schumaker is fractionally more puzzling.
I don't think Erik Komatsu had bought a house in St. Louis, or anything, but if the Cardinals were interested in him (LH, OF)—and presumably remain interested in Adron Chambers (LH, OF)—and have now benched, for at least a few games, Jon Jay (LH, OF)—and have Daniel Descalso starting at second base (Skip Schumaker, 2B)—well, I just don't see what purpose Skip serves on this roster. Meanwhile, do you think this move screws Bryan Anderson (LH, C), who might be the ninth decent-average slap-hitting left-hander in this paragraph and is otherwise indistinguishable from Tony Cruz?)
Now the Cardinals can weather one big problem from among Lance Berkman, Jon Jay, and Allen Craig—regression from Berkman, BAbip troubles from Jay, even a Troy Glaus-ian recovery from minor surgery from Craig. In the immediate aftermath of the Albert Pujols signing I think most of us were surprised at how good the team looked—and part of that was due to the way the Cardinals had abruptly pushed most of last year's amazing depth into the batting order. It was still a great lineup, but instead of Allen Craig lurking behind it there stood a thousand slap-hitting left-handers, all alike.
Now the Cardinals hit better on a lineup card and over the long season, where last year from the bench Craig had a 153 OPS+, Nick Punto a 127, Descalso a 93. Now they can start Jay and Craig without having to commit entirely to starting Jay and Craig, and we can watch Carlos Beltran in something other than that transcendent Adam Wainwright GIF. I'm happy about it.
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now with this, who becomes our trading chip
for the trade deadline?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
in bed.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 23, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
skippy doesn't walk
.400 .400 .400
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Dec 23, 2011 9:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Best line evar!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 23, 2011 9:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
.400 .385 .415
accounting for the occasional sac fly/bunt and a few doubles.
"Progress always involves risk; you can't steal second base and keep your foot on first base." - Frederick Wilcox
by cardzfanbub on Dec 23, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, this is probably the more realistic "empty .400 hitting" scenario
He’ll have one double that should have been counted as an error or something. I’m thinking he hits it right at Carlos Lee and then hilarity ensues.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Dec 23, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sadly, sietan, you may be spot on. Yadi's value will be at the apex. If Cruz shows well. . . .
By mid-season team will know whether Yadi will go APU. . . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
We can't deal Yadi now
he’s now the de facto face of the franchise. And he’s the only other Puerto Rican on the team, other than Beltran. And he’s still the best damn catcher in the league.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 23, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
you mean the guy that's supposed to be from St. Louis?
personally, I throw a BS flag on that everytime.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
it is a little suspicious
I mean, I KNEW Howard was from St. Louis, but I don’t recall hearing about Freese being from St. Louis until after the Phillies were out of the playoffs.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Someone else is from St Louis too
He has a zombie arm though
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 23, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
RYAN HOWARD IS FROM ST LOUIS????!!!!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 23, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I'd say Holliday and Freese are
Go to the Cardinal website and see whose picture you see the most. That will answer your question
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 23, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I seriously doubt we will trade Yadi
We’ve traded folks like Drew and Polanco, but we usually just let others walk and collect the pick(s).
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
Well extend Yadi....
…3 years. He’s earned that much, anyway.
:=8)
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
That's a big if at this point.
I’m not betting he’ll go for 3 years and after the Albert mess, he may not want to.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
My personal line is 60% chance Yadi leaves on his own.
And I’m 100% sure he doesn’t retire a Cardinal. I’m worried how much we would give a catcher with a ton of innings on his knees.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 23, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Furcal?
Wild guess here, but what if Greene takes walks and shows a steady glove?
And he's often hurt
and we need a right handed bat to play 2B against lefties. There is room for T. Greene to get PT with the roster as currently constructed. It is probably why Theriot was not brought back … opens the door for T. Greene.
that would be a 35 year old Pujols for another 7 years
unless, of course, you are trying to make the same tired point about not knowing his real age.
not really trying to be an ass, but that discussion has been going ad nauseum
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
sorry, I've just read too many times about people
speculating about him being older and it gets tiring after a while. And I didn’t sleep very well, so I’m Grinching it today. don’t mind me
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
We went up to St. Louis last weekend for a family Christmas party
I had to listen to idiots talk about how Pujols has to be older than he says because, 1 “Kyle played against him in high school and Kyle is 33” and 2 “He looks like he’s 40”.
I didn’t put up much of an argument. There’s no use with some people.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I think you (or someone else) made this joke on reddit
And I reacted the way was as MTFBWY. The birther stuff is just a little too tired to be funny.
Agree about the tedium of the which-came-first question, Albert or this birth certificate. . .
. . . I’m guilty of such notes; however, I don’t see you can avoid some thought of this issue when discussing the recent signings and projections. . . Lots written about say the Civil War and Monica Lewinsky. Figures APU’s age factor may fit somewhere in between in historical importance. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
amazing factoid: translation of "Berkman" into spanish = Beltran
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 23, 2011 9:05 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Maybe
But “Belt gonna belt” works pretty well on its own.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
by lightbulb on Dec 23, 2011 10:29 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
They are both switch hitting vets who used to play CF.
Also they kinda look alike.
by Jon S. on Dec 23, 2011 12:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Berkman was fat elvis
Beltran was skinny elvis.
Ti xeronne O GKOYGKOUL;
Rough Greek, what does Google know?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Now I feel even more unfortunate
that we didnt bring back the Shredder. Otherwise we could have made an early decleration of 2012 being the year of the Switchcraft, with half our everyday lineup being both siders.
Probably the reason why we got Romero as well.
Mo says Beltran should bat 2nd
Opening day:
Furcal SS
Beltran RF
Holliday LF
Berkman 1B
Freese 3B
Yadi C
Jay CF
Greene/Desca
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
Damn iPad keyboards
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 23, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
that's a good line up
I expect Greene to take over the lead off position by the end of the year. (yeah I know a lot of people will disagree with me here.) And having Beltran and Greene running bases infront of Holliday and Berkman will be awesome.
Grit != flat out sucking.
I HOPE Greene takes over by th end of the year....
….but I expect, basted on past performances, to piddle out by the ASB. Let’s hope I am wrong.
:=8/
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
Cowabunga, dude - situation cud improve now that TLR is out to pasture. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
I haven't been around much, so this might have been discussed
but should we expect more running from the team this year with Albert and TLR gone?
I don't know that it was so much TLR as it was his personnel.
The last few years the club really hasn’t had anyone who should be attempting to steal bases that often. When Greene played last season, which was not often, TLR gave him the green light. I imagine Matheny will do the same.
As for Beltran, at this point in his career he is not much of a base stealer.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Sux . . . thanks for the research.. . . What were his numbers last year?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
www.fangraphs.com
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 24, 2011 4:41 AM EST up reply actions
If Matheny...
Thinks every catcher is as good as he was, then no.
by Jumsy on Dec 23, 2011 3:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
In the post-La Russa era,
John Mozeliak will annoint starting second basemen and declare where veterans will bat in the order. This will take some getting used to.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Do you think Mo is pushing a higher profile just to deflect things from his rookie
manager? I doubt he is trying to supplant his new hire (I am not saying you are implying that).
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
I didn't mean to imply that. I hadn't really thought about Mozeliak's motivations.
Whatever the reason behind Mozeliak being more vocal, it would likely not have happened if TLR were manager (certainly when it comes to lineup construction).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Suspect that Mo is vaguely aware of his Gibby award. That should help his profile self image
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
I figured he would end up there
Surprised Mo is the guy saying it. He is a pretty stout 2 hitter. Very excited to see this lineup day in day out.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Shouldn't Moz leave construction
of the lineup for the manager? Is he going to come down to the dug out on opening day and fill out the lineup card?
that is what i was thinking.
roster construction is the GM, lineup construction seems like it should be the manager’s decision.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I'd go a step further
and say that Moz should defer questions about where batters hit to Matheny. I don’t know if Bernie read the comment here but he has already responded to the issue on twitter.
“Mozeliak isn’t choosing lineup. He relayed the info about Beltran batting 2nd — comes from conversation with Matheny.”
http://twitter.com/#!/miklasz/status/150293489257676800
Kinda misses the point. Perception is as important as reality in anything having to do with the media (some may say perception = reality). The GM should be aware that there is a perception out there that he chose the inexperienced Matheny to be the next manager of the Cardinals in large part to extend his own authority. Moz shouldn’t answer to the media on behalf of Methany. He should defer to Matheny in an area that is reserved for judgment by the manager.
for the MooCow
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 9:27 AM EST reply actions
Merry Christmas
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:=8O
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
We HATES him....
…we hates him SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:=8O
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
Good News / Bad News
I love the Beltran signing and the shape of the team. Bad news – there is no real uncertainty about this team before spring training. What will VEB have to talk about for the next two months? After all, railing on Skip can only carry us so long.
Thanks Santa! Thanks Mo!
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
having Skip on the team bites!
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
2nd base plus Waino
Everyone’s gonna take a collective dump if there’s some kinda setback.
I lol'd
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
cause you touch yourself at night
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
confucious say
Man who go to sleep with hard problem bound to wake up with solution
in hand.
by ridgesee on Dec 23, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Confucious also say
Man who sleep with itchy butt wake up with stinky finger
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 23, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
between the line and the typo
I had a really good laugh out of it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
confucious also say
Man who walk sideways thru airport turnstile always going to Bangkok
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 23, 2011 3:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Confucius also say
man who go to sleep on railroad track wake up with split personality.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 23, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
they do pay the coaches and staff
the players should just feel lucky that somebody is around to let them on the field. Otherwise they’d be looking for work on the docks or paying for their own schooling just to play team frisbee.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Back-up catcher, the last bench spot, the bullpen, Swindler the Wizard, Wainwright, BABIP...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
no, actually, i can and will rail on Skip all year!
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
That's what she said.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 12:42 AM EST up reply actions
I think I know what you mean, but injury risk scares the crap out of me
3B attracting mayhem like the allstate commercial, 2 post-knew surgery (one w/ a gray beard), an ace recovering from Tommy John, a second ace who threw a sh**load of innings.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
posts like this
Remember when we lost Waino for the season and then we went on to win the WS? That was awesome.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
Would not wager a significant amount on winning WS again if age catches up with anyone over 35 and Waino pitches less thant 150 innings.
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Let me take a stab at it...
“This team will be fine as soon as we get Westy to waive his no trade clause, ship him off for Martin Prado, and sign Oswalt to a one-year deal. Until we do that we are doo(ooooooo)med and the front office clearly isn’t committed to winning. Additionally, something about Skip and KMac.” Repeat until pitchers and catchers.
by StillLostinNC on Dec 23, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
From Chitown's Pujols fanpost
Considering fWAR, Pujols leads by far from 2001 to 2011. His total is over 12 WAR higher than the next best, Alex Rodriguez. Lance Berkman and Carlos Beltran are 3rd and 4th during this timespan.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
Always
nice. Replacing the best player with the 4th best, saving 8 figures, and getting Wainwright back.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Just wondering...
could we be converting a Buccos fan to a Cardinals one :-)?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 23, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Rob Neyers asks,
“How Good Are The St. Louis Cardinals?”
If Wainwright comes back next season at, say, just 80 percent of what he was, he makes the Cardinals four or five games better than they were last season. All else being equal, of course.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
So AW is a four win upgrade over KMac...
Lohse and Carp project to be about 2 wins worse (7.5 war in 2011), westy and the pen will probably be level… That’s a 2 win upgrade for the pitchers
Going Pujols to Craig is a -3, Berkman is a -2, Beltran over Jay is a +2, a real middle infield over Theriot/Skip is a +2, Freese, Holliday, Yadi, and bench collectively level.
+1 over last year overall? That’s pretty good when you figure we lost the best player in baseball and didn’t commit a nickel to anyone in 2014.
Sign Roy O
I think you're underestimating the bullpen.
Ryan Franklin and Miguel Batista combined for -2.1 WAR last season by themselves. Their absence is a 2.0-WAR upgrade by itself.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That's what I find most interesting, to be honest
What if we go through the first half of the season without seeing a bunch of freaking games lost in the last 2 innings? that’d be crazy!
thats what we call an "addition by subraction" right thar.
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Sort of amazing that those two guys were that bad
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 23, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Sort of amazing that those two guys made an MLB team, if you think about it.
World Series champs, no less.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
How is the bullpen going to be level?
I’m not seeing how it can’t be anything but better than what we had for 2/3-3/4 of last year. No Miller, Tallet, Batista, or Franklin. Romero would and should only have a minor role as a spotty-use LOOGY.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
I'd believe it, but that doesn't mean it can't be better in 2012
with full seasons from Rzep, Salas, Sanchez, and Lynn. That’s a very talented group of relievers. In 2012, the bullpen’s WAR is much less likely to be bogged down by negative contributions like those from Franklin (-1.6), Batista (-0.5), Miller (-0.3), and Tallet (-0.5). McClellan might not even be as horrible as his -0.9 WAR in 2011.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
this is what I was getting at
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
It really comes down to keeping our top four righties functioning...
because what’s below them – KMac, Boggs, Dickson, Cleto – isn’t very good.
I could easily see a rotation injury stealing Lynn away…
Sign Roy O
Four righties with better than replacement-level stats are more than most teams have
look around the league – probably the average is 2-3 better than replacement-level guys on most teams. I agree that we likely don’t have a relief “ace” (not sure Motte is as good as he appeared towards the end of last year) but, with decent management, I think we can cobble together an above-average relief corps out of those guys.
I think Motte, Lynn and Salas might all be a bit worse this year but I also think Boggs and Sanchez are probably likely to put together better years, and I wouldn’t count out some impact innings later in the year from Shelby Miller or something. Also, I’m pretty convinced Rzep is one of the best left-handed relievers in baseball. He’s better than quite a few closers and I’d be happy with him handling the 7th or 8th next year even when there’s a few righties up.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 24, 2011 4:46 AM EST up reply actions
Think K-Mac's numbers are skewed. Before the innings piled up, he was reasonably effective. . .
When his arm and Holiday’s appendix became indistinguishable, the numbers cascaded. (I think)
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
As the last man out of the pen
he’s perfectly adequate. The only problem is, paying ~$3m for that guy is bad business. I hope they trade him. He’s no better than Boggs, and worse than Sanchez, who might be the guys he keeps down in Memphis.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 24, 2011 4:47 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with bgh about the bullpen
also, not convinced Pujols + Berk is 5 wins better than Berk + Craig. Might be, i guess.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 23, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
If it's Pujols 2001 - 10...
prolly 5 wins better. Pujols 2011 not so much.
"Progress always involves risk; you can't steal second base and keep your foot on first base." - Frederick Wilcox
by cardzfanbub on Dec 23, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I'd project Albert to be maybe 6 WAR next year. 7 at a push.
Berk in RF, maybe 3.
Berk at 1B, maybe 3.5-4, Craig RF maybe 3.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 23, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Said my brother when he got word of the signing:
“Now Wainwright can ask him how that curveball looked in ’06.”
by arch support on Dec 23, 2011 10:19 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Let's hope he's smat enough to ask when there are a bunch of other people around
in case Beltran doesn’t care for the question.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
ugh......*smart
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
It does in Baston, anyway.
DO YOU THINK IT'S NOT GOING TO BE WHAT IT IS?!!
by Vindicator9000 on Dec 23, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
:[
Leach promoted to national writer, leaving Cardinals beat as of Winter Warmup.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
It sucks for us, but it's grear for his wife.
I imagine he won’t be covering a beat, which is pretty grueling and keeps one away from one’s family. Now, he’ll likely be based out of NYC and be able to spend more time with his wife. On top of that, he’ll be promoted to a national platform. This could mean he’ll have a bigger role on MLBN, too. Selfishly, I’m sad to see him go, but this is a great thing for him professionally and personally. He deserves it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
oh yeah, for sure
i am very happy for him, just will miss his coverage
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
I realize this
but I’m still going to be selfish about it
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I am expecting Ken Rosenthal type of coverage from him
by that I mean, at lots of games, covering all the teams, still bringing news on twitter but not limited to Cards now. Will be great, he is one of my favorites in StL sports
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
And he is besties with DGoold
He picks the right people to associate with
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
What is this tweet from Leach?
Some personal/professional news in the link that’s about to go out. ~
Oh, man. This sucks. Leach is leaving stlcardinals.com and heading east to write for MLB.com.
As for me, I’ve been promoted to a job I’ve dreamed about for a long time, serving as a national writer/columnist (title to be determined, actually) for MLB.com. My wife and I will be leaving St. Louis within the next three months or so (the exact time frame remains a bit flexible), bound for New York. I’ll still be writing baseball, I’ll still be working for a company I absolutely love, and I’ll still be in St. Louis sometimes. But this job, this consuming, amazing, overwhelming job, will soon be in someone else’s hands.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
he says we will not be disappointed with his replacement
who’s it gonna be?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
It's...
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Mizzou alum!
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
M-I-Z-Z-O-U
She also was covering the Pirates.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 23, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
how does one cover the pirates, really?
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
with her ass
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
I liker her already.
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
that wasn't a typo...
as close to that was to “licker” that was freudian.
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
You're the type that would lick a frozen flagpole, aren't you?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I've certainly put my tongue on worse.
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
have you met Dan Lozano?
you guys would get on great.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 23, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Ooooohhhh....
I dig the nerdy girl look!
;=8)
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
Pirates
fan. You will like her. She’s good
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
And so the Carlos Beltran era begins
Happy Festivus, everybody!
/nonreligion
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 23, 2011 10:29 AM EST reply actions
Keith Law
tweets on the final makeup of the deal betweet the Reds and Cubs:
Cubs to receive Travis Wood, Dave Sappelt, and Ronald Torreyes for Sean Marshall. Deal to be announced later today.
I don’t know anything about Sappelt or Torreyes.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That bad?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
that's how you build a winning ballclub, right there
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Why do you say that?
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
They're not awarding draft picks for relievers anymore...
Dotel was the last of his kind.
Sign Roy O
yay us
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
so in the bullpen on opening day
for the Cubs?
Both have names with consecutive consonants, which bodes well for their contributions to clubhouse chemistry..
Guys like being able to call other guys things like “Sappy” and “Torry.”
i love this deal for the cubs
i don’t know who hose other names are, but the cubs should probably have been the ones sending prospects, not the reds
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
agree
although I’ve been a big Marshall fan for a while, and think Wood is kinda meh, it’s one year of a reliever for 5 years of a starter…. Got to be a win for Chicago. Reds giving up a LOT of prospects for about 3-4 WAR of upgrades this month…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 23, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
i don't really understand the indifference i keep seeing toward wood
he’s had one very good half a season and one average-ish half a season. he’s also 24, a lefty and has 5 years of control left. i’d peg him for 2-4 WAR next season, topping out around 4-5
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
and he has a 3.75 FIP is 200 MLB innings
i don’t see what’s meh about that
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
His HR/FB rate is around 6%...
you look at the big flyballers in the league – Wolf, Lilly, Colby Lewis, Vazquez – they all have rates of 10-12%. He’ll have to sharpen his command, strike more guys out, or get more grounders to avoid being a 4.5 fip guy long term.
Plus, teams are going to stack righties against him, those righties are going to pull fly balls to left, and you know what that means… Adventures With Soriano.
Sign Roy O
yeah, his HR/F will probably increase some
he has a 3.75 FIP in 200 MLB innings spanning his age 22 and 23 seasons. teams didn’t think to stack righties against him then?
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
4.30 xFIP
You should be using mostly xFIP in a 200 inning sample as it takes HR/FB a lot longer than that to stabilize. He’s been a bit below average, and I’m sure he has some room for improvement.
Probably a 4.10 FIP guy going forward, which is about league average for a starter these days.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
His median projection is at the low end of your projection
Whatever, I don’t care. This is obviously a steal for the Cubs.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
his median projection according to you?
sorry that i don’t take it as gospel. bill james projects a 3.75 ERA next season. i think he’s a 2-4 WAR player next season with a 4-5 WAR peak
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think that's a much more reasonable median projection than James
His career xFIP is 4.30. His minor league numbers aren’t great.
James projects a tiny increase in HR/9 despite Wood having a career 6.5% HR/FB. Not a good projection.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
There is a higher correlation between
a season’s xFIP and the following season’s ERA than a season’s ERA and the following season’s ERA, if I’m not mistaken.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
okay, you're not mistaken
but i have no idea what your point is. no one is projecting ERA based on ERA
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.
Looking at the thread, it seems that you are deferring to the Bill James projection, which is perfectly reasonable. The James projection is likely based more on Wood’s past performance and repeating it. I’m judging this by the projected 0.88 HR/FB projection from James. This is fair.
It seems that VEP is arguing that this projection is off-base because of Wood’s high xFIP. VEP seems to think that Wood’s HR/FB will rise. Based on the higher correlation between xFIP and future ERA, this seems reasonable to me, too.
I guess I’m boringly not really coming down on either side of this debate. I’m just saying that I think each side has a valid argument.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i think you're right
i have an opinion, you have an opinion, VEP has an opinion. i think both of your opinions are valid, you think both of opinions are valid. VEP thinks my opinion is wrong. a stopping point was reached
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
look bro we can either have this out now
or i can come to your house during christmas and spray paint “trayed lohse” on your lawn.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
it says 19 games and 12 starts
so maybe 3.85 if all his innings are as a starter?
i don’t think the number of innings pitched is the important projection, though
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Reds have to be thinking THIS YEAR. After this season lots of quesitons. ..
Phillips, Rolen age. Votto contract. Cueto dolores del cabeza. Dusty will be Dusty until he is driven off again. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Torreyes put up very good numbers in the Midwest League at a very young age.
Main concern about him is size – he’s drawn comparisons to Jose Altuve for good contact rates and low walk rates.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Where do we cap out at?
Already at 110 million
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 23, 2011 11:21 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
i think we're capped out, minus marginal moves
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Thats whaT i thought
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 23, 2011 11:53 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
What's K-Mac's contract status? Can the team just release him now? DFA?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
we can trade Westbrook and KMac and Skip
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Cannot imagine what that trio would bring in return. This might be a metphor. . .
Went scuba diving hear Pattaya recently. In turgid waters saw endless beer cans and bottles and condoms. Assume the former was empty and the latter filled. Did not explore the matter in depth however. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Is this the highest payroll evah?
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
The draft and the new "cap"
Since I have no more free agent things to talk about, lets talk about the new CBA and the Cardinals draft.
My understanding from the new CBA, is that each draft pick is assigned a recommended slot bonus by MLB. Then, each team takes all of their picks in the first 10 rounds of the draft, sums the total of the recommended slot bonus by MLB, and that is their cap or “bonus pool” for all of their picks in the first ten rounds. So, a team like the Miami Marlins, which will have no 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round picks will have a much smaller “bonus pool” to sign their picks than the Cardinals who have 7 picks in the first 3 rounds.
And of course, if teams exceed the bonus pool for those first ten rounds, there are penalties.
From Jim Callis
Draft cap: Teams that exceed the “aggregate signing bonus pool” assigned to them for the first 10 rounds of the draft are subject to a tax on the overage and a loss of draft picks. A 0-5 percent overage would result in a 75 percent tax; a 5-10 percent overage would result in a 75 percent tax and the loss of a first-round pick; a 10-15 percent overage would result in a 100 percent tax and the loss of first- and second-rounders; and a 15 percent or higher overage would result in a 100 percent tax and the loss of two first-rounders.
So here is my question, does anyone know of a site that lists all of MLB slot projections from 2011 or projected for 2012? I’ve found a few sites that list a top 10, but none with comprehensive numbers.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Sorry....
….there is nothing about bacon in that post.
;=8)
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
by The MooCow on Dec 23, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
to answer your question, i don't know.
i’ve heard people like kevin goldstein throw around numbers for a couple of the first round picks on his podcast, and he said it as if he knew for sure what those numbers actually were, but i don’t know where he was pulling them from.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
you might check over at future redbirds and see if they have anything linked
believe it’s futureredbirds.net
/hoping for a “helpful” from the robot
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I read that site regularly
And haven’t see anything like that there. There was one site I saw that listed the top ten picks for the first round of 2012 and their MLB recommendations, but it was only for the top 10.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
you could also just ask the robot
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I really hate this new draft cap crap
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 23, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
I actually don't find it that bad
It just means teams won’t be grossly overpaying for picks. And it especially means that there won’t be 2nd-10th round picks expecting first round money. That simply won’t be happening anymore.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Doesnt it stop hard to sign, high upside guys from falling?
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
yes but it also potentially prevents you from
being able to pay enough to sign them at all.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Why is that?
What advantage does a player have to not sign other than the possibility to go back to school and come out the next year to try and be a higher pick and get more money. And truthfully, that possibility existed under the old system.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Right...the Cards dont usually sit in the top 20, so doesnt that diminish there prospects
(pun intended, heh) from getting a higher upside guy b/c he wont be falling anymore?
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Possibly
But how many guys have truly slipped to the Cardinals over the past decade that were considered underdrafted. The primary one I can think of is Shelby Miller.
But at the same time there have been players passed up by the Cardinals due to signability issues as well.
It just seems to me that it is a fair system where players get drafted based more on talent and less on signability.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
good point
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Cox was considered a bit of a slip, IIRC
He had a lot of leverage and sign-ability issues b/c he was a draft-eligible sophomore and didn’t have to sign. He could have just gone back to AZ St.
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Not to be picky,
but Cox was at University of Arkansas, not Arizona State.
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 23, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
it reduces the amount of money you can spend in the draft.
baseball will lose some players because of this.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I doubt baseball will lose many, if any, players over this.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, how many multisport athletes are realistically out there?
I know that it’s a nonzero number, but I dont’ expect it to be a large fraction of the draft, either.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Moreover, that's not even the question (i.e. how many multisport athletes are there?)
The question is: “how many athletes will forgo attempting to play professional baseball only because of the change in the draft structure that hypothetically would cause them to paid sufficently less money that it makes turning down baseball for the opportunity to play professional football or basketball after college a better risk?”
I’m unaware that any multi-sport athletes would realisitically fit into this window.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
OR HOCKEY. Or octopush.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 23, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I believe both Tyrell Jenkins and Charlie Tilson
Were two sport athletes whom the Cardinals signed. I believe both had signed letters of intent to play QB for different colleges.
However, the question becomes how much above slot did the Cardinals pay to sign them. Perhaps they didn’t even pay above slot, I simply don’t remember.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Yes, they were paid "above slot" but only because they dropped because of the risk that they wouldn't sign.
In other words, in a world without caps, it was to their financial benefit to play off the risk that they would decline to sign into a higher bonus.
Under the new system, there is NO benefit to the player for being coy! It is to the player’s benefit to be completely clear and to say that he WILL sign, so that he will drafted earlier (in accordance with his true value as a baseball prospect) and will thereby get a higher slot payment.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I personally think there is no net advantage or disadvantage to the Cardinals underneath the new system. Even though we have paid some players above slot, at the same time, we have avoided drafting players we though wouldn’t take slot money.
In the end I expect to even out.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
But there will be an increased risk
of players saying that and not following up on it, no?
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
As such
Teams get an extra year of compensation if a pick in the first 3 rounds doesn’t sign.
So if in 2012, the Cardinals draft someone at the 19th spot and offer him a qualifying contract and he doesn’t sign, they get the 20th pick in 2013. If in 2013, that pick then doesn’t sign, then they get the 21st pick in 2014.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Yeah
and that will go a long ways, but we’re still talking about GM’s that have a 3-5 year window at best to start showing something. In a case where they get burned one year, they aren’t likely to want to take a chance in yr 2, and become a joke around the league.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
And if they don't follow up on it, they'll lose the benefit of the commitment because they won't get signed.
What would be the benefit to the player of not following up on it? Also, agents for top prosepcts are repeat players in this market – they’re not going to renege, especially when there isn’t any benefit to doing so.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
If a guy thinks he might go top 15
And slips to bottom 1st or 2nd, you think he’s just going to suck it up? Once it gets to a certain point, in individual cases, I can see where teams tend to flock towards safety more often.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
It all depends on the situation
If it is a college senior, he has almost no leverage.
If it is a high school senior, draft position will possibly matter more.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
This is a different situation.
In my hypo, his agent would make it known that he would sign if he were taken in a certain range or at certain picks. If he’s drafted then, he signs. If he’s not drafted then, he won’t sign and any team taking him would know the risk.
And if a guy drops because he’s not as good of a baseball prospect as others, so what? He can go to college and hope to raise his stock in later years, or he can suck it up and sign.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Its seems we will probably get
More accurate draft projections, which should create a domino effect. A player should have a better idea of where he could/should fall, which should give him more information.
Granted, draft projections are just that….projections. But when talent is the primary factor, it should help.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Eh
It will keep the draft from being the face it’s become, with the most talented player sfalling way down due to signability problems. And it’ll prevent guaranteed MLB positions for rookie-ball level players, which is just bad for baseball.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
it comes at a really bad time for us, right?
all these high draft picks, but a cap on what we can spend
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 23, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
And the draftees will know this
and they’ll have far less leverage to demand the world. I actually don’t see how this really hurts us in the draft.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
good point
had not thought of it like this
Though i feel like higher level multisport HS athletes will be less likely to sign due to the cap…which hurts the sport
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 23, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Doubtful.
Because they’re going to try their luck at the NBA draft or NFL draft? Tyrell Jenkins was a two-star recruit going to Baylor. That dude had no realisitic shot at being drafted in the NFL three years in the future, much less giving up a $1MM to take the risk.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
bubba starling
the pitchers out of OK last season…all of them were upper level football recruits, no?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 23, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Bubba Starling would get the same money in the next draft that he got in the last one.
There’s still plenty of millions for the top choices.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I think it actually helps us in the next draft.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
how so?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 23, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
The more picks
The better off you are.
Remember, each team’s cap is an aggregate sum of the MLB recommended slot value for the first 10 rounds of picks for that team. The cap is for the ENTIRE first ten rounds, not for each pick.
So if pick #19 has an MLB recommended value of $1.5M, and the Cardinals are able to to sign him for $1.4M, the the Cardinals can take that extra 100K and apply it to the 23rd pick if they desire (or any other picks in the first ten rounds). I don’t expect this sort of thing to happen often in the early rounds, but it is possible. It will probably be sign more with 4 year seniors who have less leverage.
Basically, the more picks you have, the more opportunities you have to shift money around.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
The draft now will allow us to pick the best player available at each slot, without much regard to signing concerns.
The Cards have generally not been big spenders in the draft compared to slot recommedations, with a few notable exceptions (like Shelby Miller – though assuming Shelby would have gone earlier in that draft under the new system, we could have still drafted a top prospect, like Mike Trout or Nick Franklin.)
The bottom line is that the players will be drafted now according to teams’ perceptions of their value, not perceptions of how much they’ll cost. If we pick the right players, we’ll be fine. I’d rather do that than have the Cards pass on the best player (Josh Bell, whoever) because of cost.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if that applies to protected picks
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
If what applies?
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Teams will no longer lose first round picks
under the new CBA
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Well
from signing free agents. They can lose them by spending too much on the draft.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
True
Which I don’t expect to happen often, but we shall see.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Yep
I really am curious. I keep running it through my head, and I doubt we see any team go over.
If there is one exception, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Theo and Hoyer up in Chicago try overspending. They have the bankroll, are in complete rebuild mode, and if you are willing to swallow the draft luxury tax, 1st round picks aren’t really needed to add talent.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Or if a #1 pick is a griffey-style lock.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
CAIRO says 94 wins next season.
i’m a little nervous about berkman and beltran’s durability, but if they stay healthy we should be the team to beat in the central.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
This is the common refrain - we're old...
gotta keep in mind we have three guys for two positions if you’re okay with Jay in CF.
Sign Roy O
There isn't one of
Craig, Berk, and Beltrán that will play 162 games. Combine that with benching Jay against tough lefties and starting Beltrán in center for those games, and I don’t even think you’ll notice that we have an ‘extra’ outfielder
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Team better hope for lots of grounders with Holiday, Craig and Beltran in the outfield. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Holliday and Craig are both above average in corner outfield
IMO (and by the UZR numbers, limited in Allen’s case).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 24, 2011 5:10 AM EST up reply actions
94 feels a little best-case-y to me.
Personally I worry less about the B’s — they won’t play 150, but so much depth — than I do about Carpenter throwing another 200 innings.
a 1 year deal with oswalt
Would be a nice insurance policy.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 23, 2011 11:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
i just don't know what you do with westbrook or lohse, in that case.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Put Westbrook in the pen
Oswalt projects far better than him.
What is VEB’s obsession with sticking with Westbrook?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I think it's just an acknowledgment of reality.
It doesn’t make any sense, but he’s going to start the season in the rotation and have to pitch his way out of it, because he’s a “starter” and he makes “starter money.” You don’t have to like it to acknowledge that it’ll happen.
maybe a sunk cost fallacy
but if we can get someone better enough than Westy to be worth the cost difference, we should cut him or throw him in the pen
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Oswalt would definitely be that guy
Past two years he’s been worth 7.2 WAR in 350 innings. Westbrook’s been worth 3.4 WAR in 395 innings. They are both 35 next year.
Oswalt’s a solid 2 win upgrade over Westbrook, and it would increase our depth in case of injury. If we can get him for less than 8 million, we should do it. If payroll is really an issue, we could always trade KMac/Skip or try to trade Westbrook.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
I love how people say
we could always trade away this somewhat reviled/bemusedly beloved player or that sr/bb player, as though there would be an actual market for them….no one wants these guys, least of all us, who re-signed them for some GOB-awful reason, and every other GM knows that.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 23, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
You're missing the point
Oswalt is enough of an improvement to where if payroll allows, Westbrook can be released or demoted to the pen. We’re talking about the sunk cost fallacy of “We paid him, so let’s get our money’s worth.”
The money on Westbrook’s contract is gone no matter what, and the Cardinals have an obligation to put the best team possible on the field, even if it means cutting players with bad contracts.
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
is oswalt for $20MM better than westbrook for $8MM?
that’s not exactly a slam dunk. westbrook is still fairly useful if the expectation is “5th starter”
Right, but Oswalt is apparently cool with a one year deal
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
my point is that if the Cards can afford it, they should do it
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
His back scares the hell out of me.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
THIS
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Is it hairy?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
it's broken
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 24, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I know, just thought it sounded furry
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
ew
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 24, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
hence my comment in response to it being scary, c'mon it's a little funny
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
never said it wasn't funny
but it is gross
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 24, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
concur
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
don't think that's a very good strategy
“if you have the money, buy it”
1) oswalt is going to cost $12MM, i would guess. so you release westbrook and you’re paying $20MM for 3 WAR or so
2) westbrook is more likely to give you 200 innings. oswalt throws out his back, you paid $20MM for westbrook to pitch somewhere else and lynn to try and eat up starts at about the production level of westbrook
even if they have the money, it doesn’t mean it’s the right move
I would prefer to keep Westy in the pen in this situation
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
why?
which of motte, lynn, sanchez, salas, boggs is he going to be a more effective reliever than?
his only value is pitching a large number of innings at somewhere around league average
he'd have a shot to out do boggs. maybe.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
More for the sake of depth than anything
but you’re right, our righties are all better than him
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
who cares?
why does Westbrook have to be on the team? he’s a sunk cost, we should treat him like we would any other player who’s 35 and coming off of a bad season.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
Don't believe it is the right move
See what he does with a functional defense in the infield. If it’s a disaster, then eat the remainder of the contract and trade for a bloated expiring contract from a non contender if you have to.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
my strategy would be
to keep whatever money is had and wait until june or so to see what the biggest hole is. it very well may be westbrook. he’s one of the more likely candidates. but i think now is a most imprudent time to make the decision
innings will be needed with waino coming off an entirely missed season and carp coming off a huge load
Do you think we're likely to find a better upgrade in the middle of the season
than Oswalt over Westbrook? That’s nuts, Oswalt’s a 3-4 WAR pitcher, you’re not going to find anything like that in the middle of the season without trading prospects. Besides why would wait to the middle of the season to make the upgrade, that would just mean shorter time for the replacement to make an impact. If Oswalt over Westbrook is 2 WAR over a full season, than its only 1 WAR over a half season.
I agree that innings will be needed, and Oswalt is just as likely to throw 200 innings as Westbrook. Signing Oswalt means that Westbrook offers additional depth.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
Yes.
1. Sign Oswalt for $12M
2. Somehow try to get Westbrook to see that a trade is better for him than being released, as otherwise we will be on the hook for his $8M.
3. He says fogedaboudid, has a better chance of being picked up if he’s free to another team.
4. We finally release him, he gets picked up by Milwaukee, where he delivers an ERA+ of 150 out of spite.
5. Oswalt starts the season by throwing out his back, out for the rest of the year.
6. Lynn tries to start in his place, is terrible to average.
7. …..
8. Profit?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 23, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
7. is this:
Lynn hurts back again under added pressure to fill in for injured Oswalt and eat too many innings too quickly
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
You're not making any sense
1) Fine so its either 20 million for 3 WAR or 8 million for 1 WAR. I don’t see the problem with spending 12 million for an extra 2 WAR, as this is absolutely the best place for us to upgrade now. Oswalt over Westbrook is as big an upgrade as Beltran over Jay.
2) This is such bullshit. They are both 35 year old pitchers with mild injury histories, there is no reason to think any one of them is more likely to be injured then the other.
And yeah, if Oswalt throws out his back and misses the season (an unlikely scenario), than we’re paying an extra 12 million for no upgrade. That’s the same risk involved in any free agent signing, so unless your arguing we should never pay free agent pitchers, i don’t know what you’re point is.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
Fan. Tastic.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
never sign a guy
that has been put in the same sentence as retirement.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Concur. Westbrook is effective as 5th starter and should be so much better this year
2011
BABIP% LOB% GB%
.313 69.1 % 59.3 %
All should be better next year with Furc and Greene/Descalso behind him
He had a winning record with our bullpen and Theriot behind him
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Wins, bleh?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 23, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
With our pre-trade bullpen/Theriot and Schu behind him and he's a pretty extreme GB/contact guy
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
don't use the 'winning' argument
when referring to pitchers. There’s too much noise in it. Rather, say that he was an effective pitcher. a pitcher does not ‘win’,. he just happens to be the guy that’s pitching at the moment that his team scored the winning run.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 24, 2011 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
thanks for reminder
How about this, I think Westy, a GB pitcher, will be a good deal more effective at getting outs this year w/Furc 2nd base platoon of Greene / Descalso behind him.
On and unrelated note. I also think, the cards will have a better chance of retaining leads once the bullpen takes over this year with current pen, as opposed to last years pre July version
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with this entirely.
A major difference between Westy ’09 and ’10 was Brendan Ryan.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
First off
I don’t think Oswalt will cost 20 million. He said he wants a one year deal.
Secondly, who cares what spot they are in the rotation? If Westbrook is a 1 WAR pitcher and Oswalt is a 3 WAR pitcher that’s a 2 WAR upgrade whether Westbrook is your 1st or 5th starter.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
He's adding a projected 12 mill for O to the 8 million for Wb
I think it’s a doable sign if we can move Wb or K-Mc. Moving Skip would help too, but after a 2 year deal, I wonder if that can be done. Plus, I think Mo more or less intends to keep Skip here for two years. I have a hard time seeing them sign a guy to a two year deal just to move him, even though the right move is clearly to get Skip and his salary off the roster in any way they can.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
I don't see any reason why the salary ceiling is hard
I mean DeWitt obviously could afford an extra 12 million for one year.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:39 AM EST up reply actions
I agree. It's certainly an idea worth exploring.
2B is an equally upgradeable position imo, but I’m not sure there’s a clear cut upgrade on the FA market that is willing to sign for a 1 year deal.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 2:42 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah that's what I mean
Like Beltran, Oswalt offers the biggest upgrade left on the market.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:52 AM EST up reply actions
But how much does an extra 2 wins add to our playoff expectancy?
I would guess, actually not that much? I reckon we’re probably (on paper) about 4-5 wins better than both Cinci and Milwaukee right now. How much extra expectancy do we get by adding 2 WAR on top of that? Especially with the NLW being so weak, and there now being TWO wild-card slots, it’s an interesting argument to ponder.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 24, 2011 5:16 AM EST up reply actions
I thought the VEB consensus was that we were pretty close with the Reds and the Brewers
Besides even if we are 5 wins ahead of that, that’s only like a 50% playoff odds. I don’t think we’re so far ahead that adding 2 wins wouldn’t increase ours odds significantly.
Are there actually 2 wild card spots next year? I wasn’t aware that was passed.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 5:22 AM EST up reply actions
Hm. It's passed but idk if it takes effect next year.
I guess I don’t see why it wouldn’t, but I think it’s in 2013.
But I agree, I’d rather have the two extra wins. I think it would look extra bad not to make the playoffs the year 1 A.P.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 5:53 AM EST up reply actions
Also
I think we could add 1 win by signing Mike Gonzalez (~$3m maybe?) and dumping Romero. Punto would probably have been worth an extra win over Skip as well.
I really like Oswalt but I think there are other ways to do it. It’s also pretty moot if the payroll set by ownership is ~110m. Obviously it’s possible to increase it, but if BDW deems that it’s not feasible (from an economic standpoint) to do so, then fair enough. Also, I feel like I’d rather have an extra bit of cash next year (better FA class) or for the draft if there’s (say) an extra pot of $10m available “whenever Mo needs it” or something.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 24, 2011 6:06 AM EST up reply actions
This statement operates in the same reality
where it’s no problem to send Westbrook to the pen (i.e. not this reality).
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Why is there a problem sending Westy to the pen?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Though you have to admit that the $12 million extra payroll is not reality.
Maybe it’s feasible that we can physically add $12 million, but it’s not realistic for us to go out and actually do that.
I AM ACTUALLY STLCARDSFAN4 JUST TO CLARIFY YOUR POSSIBLE CONFUSION.
ok whatever, i'm talking about what we should do
not what the club is likely to do.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not missing the point
of course they could be released, but trading them is what was mentioned by vep, not releasing.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 23, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
trading them would be a bonus`
in this subtthread i am simply talking about moving westbrook to the pen so someone better can start in his place.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
Somebody would want Westbrook...
the Indians are paying Lowe $4 million this year. I’m sure if we ate half or more of his salary some team would see Westbrook as a decent fifth starter…
Sign Roy O
Lowe's better than Westy
but you’re right, I think $4m for Westbrook would be fair. That said, I think he can bounce back to be league average-ish this year, and I think it’s not unreasonable to give him a chance. He’s the sort of guy WE’D be looking at a year or two ago as a good “buy low” candidate as a 5th starter.
Also, if Shelby destroys Memphis, I’d like to leave a spot for him (potentially) later in the year…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 24, 2011 5:18 AM EST up reply actions
No one is obsessing about Westbrook.
I think you’re simply failing to acknowledge business realities that preclude your plan from being enacted.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
moving him to the bullpen isn't hindered by any business realities
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
the < $8mil salary and ~$120mil payroll are
unrealistic, methinks
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
The 8mil salary isn't a factor
because Westbrook is a sunk cost.
Raising payroll an extra 12 million is certainly possible.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
lohse and westy
Fight for the last spot. The other moves to the bullpen and spot starts in event of injuries. I think with one of your pitchers coming off major surgery and the other with a questionable injury history always side on too many rather than not enough.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 23, 2011 11:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Same thing Tony did with them down the stretch. ... put them on the bench!
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
this
if we can get him for 5 million, that would be a no brainer. put westbrook in the pen as further insurance.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
eh, I don't see why its a hard ceiling
we could just trade Kmac and Skip if we really can’t scratch an extra few million.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
We have to find someone to take them and their salary
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 23, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
KMac is trade-able IMO
He had a decent year on the surface last season.
Skip.. yeah no one’s taking him. Why the hell did we sign him?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Cheerleading abilities, grit, clubhouse presence
Need more?
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm not worried about B&B
Not really worried about the rotation much either. Could mean we see an early Shelby sighting.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
CAIRO projects Beltran to play in 113 games.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
We need more projection systems named for former Cards utility players.
THURSTON is down on Yadi’s power this year, but SPEIZIO is really high on him.
I've actually been hoping for more Maltese Falcon projections systems.
SPADE, GUTMAN, IVA, EFFIE…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i've been hoping for more ancient egypt projection systems
MEMPHIS, AKHETATEN, KARNAK…
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
JOPPA
Wait, are these Ancient Egyptian towns or Southern Illinois?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
and PAQUETTE projects a tough year
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Not much
Just chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool, negotiating with 5-foot-7 Japanese outfielders and signing utility infielders outside after school.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 23, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
oh nice!
now if only we could sign chris duncan (again) and trade him to the giants for matt cain!
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 23, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ellsbury's 2011 was about the least predictable thing to happen on a baseball field in a while...
Sign Roy O
Cardinals' 2011 postseason was about the least predictable thing to happen on a baseball field since
Ellsbury’s 2011 regular season
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
remember when the blue Jays fan suggested Bautista for Rasmus trade in a fan post and we all said no?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
by CodyG on Dec 23, 2011 4:00 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Who's Bautista?
Or Rasmus, for that matter? Are they prospects?
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
they're bat boys for the AA teams
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
by CodyG on Dec 23, 2011 4:09 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
meh. We did OK for Colby.
at least IMO.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 24, 2011 6:07 AM EST up reply actions
Holliday isnt going anywhere.
Plus he has a full ntc, not something the marlins would take.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 23, 2011 11:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I like how both of the big leaguers in the deal have NTCs
makes it even more improbable.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
He'd make a helluva 3B, I've heard.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, wait......
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I'd assume that Furcal would then become our 2B
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
speaking of which
if T. Greene does ok at the plate this time, aren’t we better off with Greene at SS and Furc at 2b, rather than the assumed reverse?
do not want
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
but hey,
any time you can trade your franchise player locked up to a long term, team friendly contract and your best power hitting prospect for a barely adequate defensive shortstop with work ethic problems coming off his worst year ever, you gotta do it!
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
in a vacuum, i think you'd have to think about it
but i don’t think i would for the Cardinals
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
in fact, i'm sure i wouldn't
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
what's Ramirez's contract situation?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Are you serious or just trolling?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Admittedly bad trade proposal but
is anyone else bothered about the fact that Holliday single handidly cost us the Dodgers serious when instead of catching the ball it hit him in the nuts….Then last year he skilleted the ball in game 6 and then got picked off of third……liability glad he sat game 7.
No he didn't, Ryan Franklin imploded.
If you’re looking for a place to rip on Holliday for making a couple mistakes, this isn’t it.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
talk about selective memory
Let’s just pick two plays out of an outstanding career…
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 23, 2011 12:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
WOAH ONE MORE
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
that was the play
If it had only been two, he would have been good. Damn that last play.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 23, 2011 12:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
there has to be a line in the sand somewhere
by Uncle Lights on Dec 23, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
sure
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
3 mistakes in an 8-year career definitely seems like the right threshold
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have this same argument with my roommate occasionally
Although he’ll concede a lot to me
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
yes, you did.
speaking seriously, however:
- holliday is a fantastic offensive player with okay defense (not that great, but not abysmal either).
- holliday is signed for five more years to a very team friendly contract. the market value for outfielders has gone up significantly since he signed.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
your right
he doesnt come thru in the clutch.
i h8 his guts
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
is this what it's going to be like until spring training
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
2011 World Series Champions!
You must have forgotten when he threw a guy out at home from the outfield while he was flat footed.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 23, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Matt Holliday did not singlehandedly cost the Cardinals the Dodgers series.
The reason the Cardinals had a ninth-inning lead was Matt Holliday’s home run. The team as a whole stranded a ton of runners on base. Ryan Franklin failed to retire the following batters: Casey Blake, Ronnie Belliard, Russell Martin, and Mark Loretta.
As for 2011, the Cardinals wouldn’t have been in the World Series without Holliday’s great start to the year which bolstered the offense while Pujols struggled. He also has taken David Freese under his wing and helped him mature and develop as a player. You’re also forgetting his good performance in the NLCS (.435/.500/.652/1.152) that helped us to out-slug the Brewers en route to the World Series.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 23, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
All good points but seriously it was the soccer style save
to the nuts that cost us.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 23, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
excellent rebuttle.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 23, 2011 12:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
"you have a good argument but seriously here's my point restated"
It’s getting straight Aristotelian up in here.
by Pegasus on Dec 23, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I feel like it's pretty hard to see a moving white ball when tens of thousands of white towels are whirling about
But good thing he has a solid gold cup, amirite?
I like rally towels, just not when the ball is in play, as Holliday and many other players have stated.
Can’t really fault him for that one, but I guess some people will never forget.
Tending to Freese
Does that mean he has value as a “clubhouse guy”?
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Dec 23, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
He's also forgetting the fact that Holliday
is fucking awesome.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 23, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
is your name Chris
because you sound an awful lot like my friend Chris is has an irrational hatred for Holliday
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 23, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
He sounds like a friend of mine
that blames Holli’s contract for us not re-signing Albert. He’s also a Cubs fan that ‘knows’ baseball, so there’s that much
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Holliday's contract>Albert's contract>Tebow.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 23, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
All I know is,
when we took Holliday off of the 25 man roster, we won the World Series. It is what it is.
by bailorg on Dec 23, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We tell them starting in Little League...
Holliday single handidly cost us the Dodgers serious
…gotta use two hands!
by StillLostinNC on Dec 23, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
splendid! The ghost of Peter the Gray. . . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
single handidly cost us the Dodgers game?
I mean…. sure he dropped a ball, But correctly if I’m wrong here…
Matt Holliday had a Home Run, that was the winning run up until the 9th inning
Ryan Franklin had 2 walks, and 2 hits besides the error. Only pitched .1 innings. So even with the error turning into an out, we don’t win that game unless franklin gets someone out.
The Cardinals left 7 Men on base that day.
And he never makes a defensive play in the World Series of note
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Dec 23, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Again good points but
terrible time to see if your protective cup is working correctly.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 23, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
he made a bad play!
since then, we have won the world series, in large part due to his offensive contributions. can you forgive him one play?
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
by your logic
the Cardinals should not have signed Beltran, cause he struck out in the last AB of the ‘06 NLCS. Which of course totally overlooks the fact that the Mets probably don’t get to Game 7 of that NLCS without Beltran’s production all year.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
He was also playing hurt in the postseason this year
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Ugh, yeah Freese also sucks. Remember when he had that ball bounce off his noggin in game 6 of the WS?
Oh yeah and then he turned it back into one of the greatest postseason games ever.
This is one of the worst comments I’ve ever seen on VEB.
if players make even one error, I am done with them...FOREVER
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Though, I could watch the José Canseco homerun headball video a million times
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
yeah that was terrible but every time
I think Im done with him he goes game 6 on someone ant totally redeems himself…I hope Holliday rebounds but not sold on him.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 23, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
If you aren't sold on Holliday, are there any players you actually do like?
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
It's just... how are you "not sold" on one of the best 10-20 hitters in baseball?
There’s not much room to go up from Matt Holliday. He’s great at baseball and stuff.
remember that time he struck out
I was so mad
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
And remember when Motte blew his first save opportunity in 2010?
DFA MOTTE NOW!!!
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
pics or it didnt happen
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I am crestfallen.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIL/MIL200805120.shtml
Bill Hall did not walk in Waino’s 5/08 start against MIL, but he did homer off him.
I was just messing with you
In all seriousness, I hate WW even more now
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
No I know.
I just looked it up and saw that Wainwright did indeed have a bad start against the Brewers in May ’08, and got all hopeful for a second.
Remember when Bob Gibson lost game 7 of the 1968 series?
The bum never did anything good for the Cardinals!
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
almost as despicable as Chris Carpenter giving up 2 runs in the first inning of Game 7.
that dude sucks…probably because he doesn’t give a f*ck.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Only after Curt opened the Flood gates. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
rebounds?
rebounds?!?! If he’s still playing at an All-Star level in the last year of his contract, he’s a fucking first ballot Hall of Famer.
Go call Kevin Slaten, troll.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
okay, chill out. he's now been told 27 different ways by numerous posters. I think he gets the point.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
During game 7, I heard he just sat there and counted his money.
True fact.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
and got fitted for his WS ring
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
He also has bulked up to the point he cant swing the bat
it seems like he can only fight of balls to right these days…..The only sure catch he made last year was when he caught the moth in his ear!
x
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i dunno
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2011/12/22/2654737/carlos-beltran-st-louis-cardinals#86399956
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Quick someone call the PD forums
One of them got loose
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Normally I would agree
But he is kinda asking for it, isn’t he?
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
well if he's asking for it
it would be rude not to rail the guy hard.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
*stock RockStark comment*
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Wouldn't that be
[REDACTED]
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
You don't know rocKStark!
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
he's a troll
he’s getting what he deserves
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I don't think he's trolling, he probably legitimately feels that way.
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
I agree. I don't think he's trolling.
After reading his more recent comments, I think he may have been swayed a bit, too.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Groupthink is funny like that.
(right or wrong)
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
even if he wasn't,
he’s the most successful troll we’ve had in a while
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Hey scoot whats a troll
and who is everybody ganging up on I want in
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
this is funny especially considering where it wound up at in the geography of the page
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
Matt Holliday was the #13 hitter in all of baseball last year.
yeah. he can’t swing the bat. we should probably DFA him.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
If he had been #12
I might have given him a pass, but #13…inexcusable.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 23, 2011 12:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes, while hitting .435/.500/.652/1.152 in the NLCS, he was clearly unable to swing.
While hitting .296/.388/.525/.912 with 22 homers in only 124 games, he was clearly unable to swing the bat.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That still leaves 38 games
where he was literally unable to swing. QED.
by StillLostinNC on Dec 23, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
This an interesting shifting of the goal posts.
You criticize Holliday for being unable to swing because he seemingly only hits balls to right field. When his clear ability to hit a baseball very well is shown to you with his exceptional hitting statistics, you shift to criticizing him for being unable to swing while he was on the DL for 38 games. Yes, Holliday missed 38 games this year. That is the most he has missed in his career. When he was healthy, he was a truly elite hitter. I’m glad that he is on the Cardinals.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Oh, whoops.
Sorry, let me try repeating it with more sarcasm. I love me some Matty.
by StillLostinNC on Dec 23, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
He can swing the bat
Guy is right near .400 wOBA annually. You’re letting a false narrative cloud your thinking.
He’s been a bit overshadowed by Pujols. I’m fully expecting a series of columns about how Holliday has really stepped up with additional responsibility this next season, when he will in reality be the same player he’s been for us all along. Unless another moth flies in his ear or something, at least.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
m̷̹̼̦̞̯̣͎ͅa̷̺̼t͏͏̩̝̗̯̞̤͍̥t̢͚̘̦̗̻̩̬̣ ̢̧̩́h̴͖͉̟͓̲͙͘o̶̲ļ͕̹͉͟͟l͖͇̰̗̱͝i̛̜̯̳̜͍̤̖̝͢d҉̻͚͔͙̼̞͈̫a̝̪͙͉ͅy͓͎̰͔̙͔͠ ̝i̶̜̹̗̳̱͈̻͘͞s̻̩͈̗͔̼̕ ̖̟̩͈o̢̮̲͓u̵̵͙̥̦͜ŕ̬͚ ̯̲̹̪́̀ͅś҉͏͉̜̦͇̳̪͚e̡̝̘̟̟̯͙͚͘ṛ̛̞v͚͓͍͍̖͢͝a̧̘̩̫̟ṉ̸̲̰̼t҉̱͖̜̩͙ͅ
̨͝͏̦̠͎̰̯͚͍ͅh̵̦̙͇͍͎̬̲͠e̲̘̪̟̜̩̬̖ ̴̟͔͘ẁ̸̜͍͚̳̙̦̰a̭̥̙͖̲̠̳̣ͅs̵̼̱͇̖͖͙͖̀ ̛͉̟̻̮̗ḑ̶̹͉͇̤̱͚̹̘ͅe̲͖̹̯̳͝ͅs̰͇͢i̧̗̟̘̮̦̠͎̯̕͠ģ҉͍̪̣̺̟͖n̶̨̞̝̭͟ͅe̛̠̣̱̲͖͍̬̥͎d͙͇͓̘̫͈̗̦͢ ̶̰̕͠ͅt҉̝͚͎̺o̷͉̺̠͖̱̜ ͏̙̩͈͕ͅd̮̻̯̖̥͖͠͝e̷̹͍̥̥s҉͙̙͉͚̀t̴͈͓͈̼ͅr̼̬̘͢͞͠o̢̟̖̞̪͈̼̦̣y̪͍̙̟͉̻̕ͅ ̰͔͖̝y̗̥̩̻͓̳̣̪͢o͏̜̱̠͖̗͈u̶̼̟̘̙̕ ͓̮͜f̺̠̰͡r̦̠̜̝̼̕o̺̰̖̬̻̕m̝ ̨͕̳̖͢w̻̠̫͎i̛̼̱̹̱̥̦͘t̘̫̕͞h̢̢̯͓̗̀i̛̝̟̯̗̼̝̬͕͜n̵̢͕̻͎̝̻̬̜ͅ
̘̯̥̩͚h̶̨ͅe͉̺͍͙͉͖ ̷͚̲̹̤͈̘̯͚͘h̵̲̭̣̫̖̪͎̙́a̛҉͔͖̗̤̮̗ş̵͈̠͖͚̖̬͝ ҉̧͉͜f̸̨͖̣̮̞̠̺̀a̟̞̬̜͍͉͇̣͝i̛̝͉̠͘l̡͕̹̠̰è͉̠̠̰̹̱̣͔͕́͟d̸̘̰̣̹͖͢ ̴̞u̵̮̫̺̭̭̗͙s҉̵̶̘̳̰̞̜̮̼̲
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
O̷̷̳̦̪̩ͪͣ̽̽̀̕͟Ų̤̖͖̦̗͙̳̲̟͚̫̦̟̦̪͚̦̖ͥ̄̈͗͋̑̊̈́̂̾ͪ̐̂ͪ̑̕̕͢R̡̗͈̤͇̘̼͈̰ͩ̎͒̃̊̉ͫ͋́ͬͫ̂͆̿ͨ̓ͦ̀̚͝
̸̃̆͐̓͂͂ͬ̍̔ͤͪ̀̓ͫ̅͐͏̢͎̳̳̗̺̱͇̠͇̩̖ͅF̵̶̘̫̤̰͈̲̭͚͈̬̓̂͐̒̚ͅͅA̡͚̩͍̮̬̝̘̮͈͖̮̩ͣͫ̇͑ͭ̍͑̔͌ͩ̊̍̌ͩ̀͒ͩ̌Ṱ̨̧̛̬̹̦͉͈̯̟ͮ̐ͬͭ͑̓̽ͪ͑̌͗̇̑̏̔̋̽́̚͢ͅH̵̪͚͙̲͎̦̮̦͕̤̻̼͓̭̞̹̤͚̒̾͋̈̓͂̾̿̅͗̏͌͛ͧ̑̿̐̾͡͞Ę͂̾ͬͯ́҉҉̠̝̻͙̙̹͖͈R̙̭̲̘̻̞͙͔͓̭̝̒͒͑̿͗͆͊̈͌ͮ́̕͡
̛̬͖̩̹͉̻̫͙ͤ̈́͋ͭ̑ͩͦ͠W̨͕͓͙̮̞̗̬̰͈̗̫̰͈̝͆̔̏ͥ͘H̴̿ͭ̓̉ͥ̈́̏̓͋͒͆̌ͧ͋͌͊ͮ͢͡҉͈͇̰̰̫͍͉͎̪͎̮̥̝̳̩͍̯Ọ̧̦͚̫̩̺̔̂ͤ̎͌̃͒̔ͥ͋̋ͩ̌̾̏ͤ͗ͣ̀͠͠ ̶̨̮̙̝̯̙̼͍̪̦̹̗̼̬̱̪̠͓ͦ̅̊̿̓̉͜A̶̧̰̥̭̹̞̥̯͔͙͔̫̩͊̽́̚R̴̸͔̩̬͉̻͕̰̞̪̪͓͉̱̩̯͍̩̼̮̋̀̅ͯ̅͛̀͌͐͜͢T̨̧̡̲̟̜̗̮̳̱̻̯̞̯͙̤̠̰͎͓̓͑̇̍̇̎ͤ̃́́ ̶̴ͦ͒̏ͨ̄̊̾̈͑̾ͥͯ̍̎̏ͫͦ͛͏҉̶̰̪̦̫̯̦̻̞̙͍̝̩̮Ì̶̛̱̺̖͓̙̈́̒̓͐̎ͯ̓̏̌ͤ̈̿̇͊̌̊̂ͦ͠͞͞N̢̢̢̬̼̤̪͛̔ͬͣ̒̂̐ͧ̀̈́ͥ̌̾͊͋ͮ͋́͜ ̓̒̾̓̈́͊͛̂ͬͬ̇͐҉̝͕̯̣͈̭͉̯͔̘̤͔͚͈̟͙͞B̶̛͎͍̪̘̲̲̰͕͇̝̲͇̥͕͙͈͓͎͉̂̌̈́̎́̈́͆̎ͧͭ̔̈́ͮ̆͋͛̚͜Ą̸̬͍͚͚̖͙͇̳̹̥͕̙͗̆ͦͭͮͥ̈̽ͯ̎͆̌̀ͭ̔̐͠ͅS̴̶͇̦̱̱͍̩͋̂ͦ̿̋ͣͧ̓̂ͩ́̚̚E͒̏͗͒ͪ̓ͣ̿̓̂̉҉̧͖̲̭͔͚̺̹̯̺̠̟̬͚̕͜B̶̭̘̪̞̥̄͐̎̓̀ͬͫ̒̊̏́͝Aͧ͒̍̉ͮͦ̑̓͗ͪ̈́ͥ͐͆͠͏̻͍͙̫̬͚̣L͂͋͒ͣ̂̑ͧ̏̐̈́̇ͯ̂̈́̑͆̋͊ͦ͘͏̜̤͈̞̳L̵̶͙̺͓̹̩̝̼͈̹̹͇̬̗̼͉̘̎ͣ͋̽͗̉ͪͮͨ̓͛̄ͩ͊̄́͝͝
̸̢̗͚̟̙͍̤̖̓͛̈́ͬ͑̃̄ͯ͒̒̀́ͭ̆̎̆͞͠H͓͇̯͕̫̫̣̠̜̺̩̮̦̫̪̠̳͙̦͗͒ͫ́ͮͭͤ̈́ͯ̚̕͞Ā̺̻̫̻̙̹̬̝̭͙̼̺̫͈̫͑ͮͧ̔͂̓̀ͤ̕͡L̷̨͚̦̠̜ͮ̂ͥ̀͆̈́̋̈́̂̊ͬ̄̄̀͐ͫ́͟L̢̛̩̮̜͖͕̳̞̝̜̺͓̞̤̣̿̾ͣͯ̈́ͭ͗̀́͟Ŏ̧̟͍̞͇͙̲͙͓̥́͑̀̄̍̄ͧͤͦͤͨ͒̽ͥ̚͢͞W̢̡̨̝͚̟̳̭̝̤͇͕̯̝̜̪͙̹͉ͬ̒̈́̑̒̐̏̀̿͢͝E̡̗͚̻͇͚̙̤̮̤̠͋̓ͣ̀̒ͭͭ̕͢͝͝D́ͭ̿̏͒̐̓̽͛̉͑̀̄̉ͧ͏̢̞̠̮̦ ̷̡͐͐ͪͪ̎̂͂̎ͤ̑̒҉̟͙͈͚͚̤̩̼͖̜͎̘͍̲̩̕͢Ḅ̵̡̬̻̜͉͓̰̯̘̗̠̖̲̈́̍̄́ͨ͂̄̍̐̄̈́͗͂͒ͅE̸̡̹̺̱̻ͣͧͪ͐̔̽ ̨̨͎̝̼̤̞̭̔̐ͬ͊ͪ̋̀͗͊̽͂͌͝͡T̶̛̤̹̖͔͔̣̗̠̳̩̎͐̉̋̇͐̓̇͊̍͗ͥͨͬͯ͑̋ͨͅḨ̸͎̙̪͓̟̬̩͂̌͊ͮ̄ͬ̐͊͒̊̎̌̓̐̈̑̍͡Ỹ̛̝̦̦͕̫̺̺͕̯̹̳͓͔̗̘̮ͧ̔̏̃ͫͧ̏͆̊̇̈̒̋ͣ̉̆̍͛͡ͅ ̶̧̪̻̙͍̟̫͕̍͒͆̎̒ͪ̓͊̊̉̕G̢̯̼͕̳͈͈̤̙̺̟̼̳̗̍ͨ̊̽̎ͬͫͦ͗̀̂̎̆͘A̵̛̭̗̰͙̹͉͙̤͔̪̹̺̭̽̌͒͑͋͘M̢͓̺̫̖̬̍ͦ͋̃̏̆̃͒́ͧ̎̒͝ͅE̺̠̖̖͓̜̭̰͕͍̠̖͇͚͉̟͖ͣ͋̀̄̍̾̓̿͑̀͑̚͘͡
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
you don't know me hangingfromatree
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
That's because you just won't let me in.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I keep trying
but you just keep hanging from that damn tree
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
The air is cleaner up here.
And you can throw pinecones. If you’re, you know, in to that kind of thing.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah what you said
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 23, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
I posted an Allen Craig Knee Primer
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 23, 2011 12:24 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Awesome! Thanks
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
welcome
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 23, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
He took an arrow?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
Beltran has a 1.302 post season OPS
It’s been a while since he played a post season game, but he’s one of the more dominant clutch hitters around.
Surely Cardinal fans remember that fact.
me too.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 23, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
lets be civil, boys
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 23, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
just remember that when you're screaming:
“WE WERE ON A BREAK!”
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
The 2004 - 2006 period was awesome scary
MV3, Pujols and Edmonds trading bombs with Berkman and Beltran in the playoffs. The only thing topping that period was the late game heroics of WS game 6 this year. So, which was better: Alberts crowd silencing launch off of Lidge, or Freese going deep and heading into the shredder in Game 6?
Wow. How lucky are we to have both of those moments to enjoy (along with Waino’s K of our newest Cardinal).
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
I'm more excited about his .920 OPS in 2011 and career .857 OPS than his career postseason OPS.
He’s only had 101 PAs in 22 postseason games. I don’t think that’s enough to indicate any sort of a true talent level. in If Beltran plays enough postseason games, I suspect his postseason OPS will closely approximate his career OPS—a level that is still very good.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
thats kind of amazing though
he basically has been 2004 Bonds in the playoffs
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
His 2004 BP before game 7 was the best I had ever seen
means exactly nothing, but damn the guy was intimidating that series. He was locked in like nobody I’ve seen.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
It absolutely is. His 2004 NLCS was absolutely incredible to behold.
But it is also a 1.302 OPS over 22 games. Maybe he has a skill for hitting in October. I don’t know that I believe he does, though.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
heh .328 BABIP
i agree that it’s probably not a repeatable skill, especially 8 years later.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Are you telling me I should be worried about the repeatability of his 2011 performance
because of his .324 2011 BABIP?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
no
i’m saying a .328 BABIP, which is what Beltran has in the postseason, isn’t even particularly high.
Beltran will probably regress a bit next year. I think the ZIPs/CAIRO projections are pretty good.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I know its the 3rd day in a row I am saying this, and no one cares
but seriously, I have this buck that continues to bang his antlers on my window at work. It’s a little hard to focus on my commenting when he is doing such things
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
please take a picture or video or something because
this sounds hilarious.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I have a turkey that bangs his head on my window too
If I knew how to post pictures/videos online I would show y’alls
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Is your office in the middle of the forrest?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
No
Forest was a poor word choice. More like wooded area a 1/2 mile away from hwy 40
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
I know people that would call that a forest.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Do you have deer urine on your shoes?
My that’s an elusive creature.
(Obligatory Ron White reference)
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
shoot him
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Dec 23, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There it is.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Eh
Nice rack, small body
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
BGH TOLD US TO CUT THAT OUT, YOU GUYS.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Dec 23, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
soda spit + monitor
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
tell me where you work
I’ll come shoot him
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
/draws bow
gun season has been over for a month now.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Yes, I was thinking there was an "I like my deer like I like my women" joke in there
Thank you
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 23, 2011 6:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
and I got in trouble for what I said? wtf?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
He's just letting you know that he's excited we signed Beltran
and that he still hates Albert Pujols
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 23, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
This one time, a buck bull-rushed my window and cracked the glass. I think I had a heart-attack.
Putting mirrored glass on a building surrounded my forestry stuff is a bad idea.
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Its about as uninteresting as it can get
I work in a hospital business office off of 40 that backs up to a wooded area.
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Hope you werent expecting some awesome story
Like I am a superhero who saves puppies from getting ravaged by mountain lions
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
No
He is much cooler than me. I just paid for the rights to us this name.
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Put a "HERE" sign on your window
The bucks stops here!
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
by Gibby45 on Dec 23, 2011 12:30 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Somehow the reply fail
isn’t even the biggest sin here.
by StillLostinNC on Dec 23, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's the joy of Christmas
All our sins are paid for!
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
I'm sorry everybody the stress of the holiday's and Yoko making albert
go to Disneyland has me a little pissy. Merry Christmas all.
Updated roster matrix?
Would love to have a look if you have one handy. Couldn’t find one after some searching.
it was in last nights thread
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 23, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
here you go
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 23, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Time to state why I am thankful...
I am thankful Bonilla got hurt and Albert broke camp with the big club, that Izzy got hurt and Waino went to the closer’s role in O6, that Rasmus was a puss and we shipped him out of town in 11, and that god gave us Ric Flair WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
BELTRAN BELLS
BELTRAN’S SWELL
(RASMUS LAID AN EGG)
WE ARE STILL WORLD CHAMPIONS
BUT PUJOLS GOT AWAY
HEY
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 23, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I do not know who this Ric Flair is
He sounds like an uninteresting person
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Breaking news!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by SheckieZx on Dec 23, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Is there a 2011 xBABIP calculator out there?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
may you have enjoyable late-december and western-calendar year-end stuff, VEB
i’ma go get a little drunk now
ATTENTION VEB SHOPPERS
Walt Jocketty would like you all to know that prospects are on sale buy one get one free.
by purple_haze on Dec 23, 2011 1:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions
i was just about to post
something on this..Cards should try and send Kmac or Westy or loshe or a bag of balls maybe he’ll send some prospects
because TLR
Ya
seriously. The Reds really are going for it.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Awww Matt Leach is movin' on up
He finally got a piece of the pie.
Oh well, this Jennifer Langosch seems like an interesting gal. I’m always glad to get some female perspective in the male dominated world of sportswriting.
by purple_haze on Dec 23, 2011 1:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
She is from the area, so at least she will have a little perspective
Better than starting fresh in Pitt
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
or maybe not
I could be FOS, which is just as likley
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
If you come across this, Jen
Hey! Welcome to Cardinal Nation! I never liked the nation metaphor for fandom. I prefer apocalyptic wastelands.
Anyways, this is VivaElBirdos, a popular fan blog. We’re like a roving gang of homicidal motorcyclists in clown makeup but with a conscience. And statistics.
Look forward to reading your stuff!
-purple_haze
by purple_haze on Dec 23, 2011 1:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was with you
up until the clown makeup. Needs to be something … more ridiculous.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, clowns are just creepy.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Oh. Good point.
Some of use are in clown makeup. Well, the mods, anyway.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Although
it’s annoying y’all can’t just beat us on the field; you have to steal our beat writers as well.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Can we have Andrew McCutchen too?
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
And Holliday
We all decided we dont like him anymore after his two errors, right?
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Well, all he can do is battle off pitches to shallow right.
His muscles are too big
It’s true. It’s in block quotes, et cetera.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Uh
Shelby Miller, Tyrell Jenkins, Zach Cox, Matt Adams, and Trevor Rosenthal please.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Shelby
Miller has to be included any package or I wouldn’t even pick up the phone to begin the talks.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, you can't make that deal.
We have to vote.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Damn.
Now you’re making me think about it.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, you can't make that deal.
We have to vote.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
stop looking in my window!
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 23, 2011 3:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Draw your curtains.
And stop hovering over me dressed in the clown suit while I’m sleeping. That’s animal blood on the knife, right?
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
holy shit i am never coming to veb again clowns are my least favourite thing ever
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I really liked Leach
He never put bias in his writing and was great at reporting facts
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 23, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Life after Albert is not as tragic as it was in my nightmares
good to know
by rg643 on Dec 23, 2011 1:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I actually feel as if the organization prepared itself pretty well for the possibility of his departure.
Maybe they were actually preparing the organization for life with Albert’s contract and it just turned out that it was the same recipe for life without Albert since loosing him meant they’d have the ability to bring in help as opposed to only growing it.
Either way, I like this team a lot right now.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
an update on the beltran possible jersey # situation
@BJRains Spoke with Cardinals equipment manager Rip Rowen and it appears if Beltran wants No. 15, he will get it. Has more service time than Furcal.
They'd fight for it.
But then one would end up on the 60-day DL.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
I know who I am putting my money on
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
WAY TOO BIG IDIOT!
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
He'll never pass the physical.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Furcal is scrappy
And, Voltron is missing a leg.
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 2:08 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Nonsense! He can just barrow one of Lego's snap on legs
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 23, 2011 2:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
well played, my good man
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 2:28 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
even missing a leg
he can still play four positions at once! Just think what Tony would have done with this guy.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
but his muscles are too big
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough - that's where they came from. . . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Is that how these work?
I mean Jay gave up the number, but will Furcal give it up given that he was on the team last year?
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Furcal will get a Rolex and Beltran will get his number.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
FIGHT
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
can we start rankng prosects now?
I mean our roster is basically set, and we still have half an off season left. It would be cool to do a series of posts on prospects.
by rumors on Dec 23, 2011 2:20 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Shelby Miller is good
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 23, 2011 2:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm so close to having a computer
I promise, it’s coming. I’ve also got a list of my own coming out in a bit.
by purple_haze on Dec 23, 2011 2:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Unless someone else wants to do it this year
by purple_haze on Dec 23, 2011 2:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was not aware that you usually do one.
I wasn’t trying to step on your toes or anything like that, and I don’t currently have a computer either. I was just hoping for some prospect related discussion.
by rumors on Dec 23, 2011 2:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There is quite a few prospect lists out there
I think minorleagueball.com is the most detailed
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 23, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
I've seen them.
I was just hoping for a community discussion here at VEB. I’m addicted to the Cardinals newly, awesome minor league system.
by rumors on Dec 23, 2011 2:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
danup had a list. I remember because he said
Bgh’s list was just donovan solano’s name 20 times
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 23, 2011 3:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Those community lists like our pitchers
A lot.
Oscar Taveras did nicely in the positional list, and Wong is starting to make some noise in the voting.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
here is a couple lists
The Only Top 100 List You’ll Ever Need
Rich Wilson’s Top 100 Prospect List (#76-#100)
Rich Wilson’s Top 100 Prospect List (#51 to #75)
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 23, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that Rich Wilson list loves our system too apparently
It has Cox, Wong, Taveras, and Jenkins all in the top 100 already. That’s without Miller or Martinez.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
To clarify, those four guys are in the 51-100 portion
I’m assuming that Miller and Martinez will both make the top 50.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
So Rich Wilson thinks we have 6 prospects in the top 100.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Who the hell is Rich Wilson?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
The Tyler Greene Fanclub.
He’s a lovable shaggy gremlin.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
This guy:
http://www.sbnation.com/users/Rich%20Wilson
His SBN user page links to his website: “Rich Wilson – The Fantasy Sports Guy”
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I'll bite
Miller
C-Mart
Taveras
Jenkins
Wong
Rosenthal
Adams
Cox
MCarp
Cleto
This is assuming Lynn doesn’t still count, otherwise he’s probably about #7 or 8. Just missed out – Swagerty (#11), Tilson, Jackson. Probably forgot someone in there as well I imagine (I usually do).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 24, 2011 6:17 AM EST up reply actions
WHAT?! You think X > Y ?!?!?!?!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Buck has turned into a tweet machine.
Step away from the smartphone for a couple, big guy.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 2:31 PM EST reply actions
Tweetalamadingdong
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Dec 23, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I could watch this for hours, much like this (the right side)
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
peppermint mocha
mmmm…..festive
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 3:15 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Walt Jocketty's recent trade behavior
is revealing to me just how much of a beating a fanbase is willing to take if there is some window in which they feel is their only chance to compete. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy that they bite into like a big wormy apple. I’ll take the really good team AND the really good farm system, thanks.
shooting in the dark, I'd rather be an astros fan in
2019 than a reds fan.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 23, 2011 3:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
are you saying that Jocketty is spending the Reds' prospects
like a drunken sailor on shore leave?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
there's that, although jocketty won't be there in 2019 ; there's a suspicion that luhnow is going to be a very good GM;
there’s the general proposition that,market to market, houston is generally going to have a better market base and bigger budget than cincinnati for the foreseeable future.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
Well MLB will be made up entirely of robots by then, so I imagine most teams will be pretty equal.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
i agree
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
Dear Jeff,
I feel like I can call you “Jeff” because you and me are so much a like…
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
oops, alike*
Though I half-believe Mac would misspell that.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 2:48 AM EST up reply actions
hah
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
although im not usually a huge prospect guy
I agree. I think prospects can be a crap shoot. For every this is the next_________ there are guys who dont pan out and then guys who seemingly come out of nowhere..I think it takes time to see how great a player is..
However giving up 3 or 4 at once in a trade doesnt always seem safe either..
The latos trade I get, the marshall one not knowing the prospects still makes me scratch my head..I like Marshall, and he signed for my daughter, but He is a reliever although he can start or used to at one point..seems a bit much especially on the heels of the latos trade
because TLR
prospects are a crap shoot
which is why you want a big pool of them so that your odds of hitting it big are higher. and so while none of the individual prospects that Jocketty has traded away are gamechangers, he really has, on the whole, weakened their system into oblivion. What’s left? Devin Mesoraco is their only prospect who I think is sure to give them some kind of value. Everything else is invested into the short term.
i am in agreement with you
even not deciphering each prospect numbers is numbers..kinda like the nba draft lottery?
more balls in the pot the better odds of having a better system? in theory an di know theres more to it than that..but he is draining bodys for sure
because TLR
though fortunately
mat latos has 4 years of control, which is way better than trading for someone with just 1 or 2 years like most prospects-for-provens end up
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
At what age does the degradation of present wrapping skills normally begin?
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 3:43 PM EST reply actions
they have these really decorative bags with colored tissue paper
and they’re recyclable.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
What is a "bag?" And furthermore, "paper"
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
If you go to a store(the place people go to buy things)
that sells gift wrapping items. They will have these ‘bags’ (which are pieces of paper shaped to have 5 sides and one end open. Will also have handles.) and tissue paper. Tissue paper is really light, thin paper and usually come in many colors. You put the item in the ‘bag’ and cover the top with tissue paper. Then put on a name tag with the name of the person said gift is going to and voila you are done.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry.
‘Paper’ is an item that is made from wood pulp. It used to be used for writing on back about a 1000 years ago, before the invention of the internet.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
pulp not bark
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
I hear Al Gore invented the internet.
(Nobody reply please; this isn’t supposed to be political, but I’ll nip it now)
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Dude's older than I thought.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Oh okay, I'll have to try this
Everyone will be so impressed!
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think the team's next two years will be very interesting as they really are a defined "window"
Carp has a two year deal
Beltran has a two year deal
Berkman has a one year deal
Wainwright has a two year extension
Furcal has a two year deal
Lohse has a one year deal
Westbrook has a one year deal
Only Matt Holliday and Jaime Garcia (other than players in arby status) are signed further out than 2013.
And only Yadi is a major piece that is not signed through 2013.
2014 Lineup:
1. Wong – 2B
2. Craig – RF
3. Freese – 3B
4. Holliday – LF
5. Adams – 1B
6. Jay – CF
7. Molina – C (re-signed)
8. Greene – SS
Bench: Descalso, Cruz/Anderson, Carpenter, Chambers, R. Jackson
Rotation:
1. Wainwright (re-signed)
2. Hamels (FA)
3. Miller
4. Garcia
5. Lynn/Cleto
Bullpen:
Motte
Rzep
Sanchez
Salas
Boggs
Cleto/Lynn
Reifer/Kelly/Ottavino
/end of super-long post – going xmas shopping
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 3:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You are notably missing Cox
Considering he spent a significant time in 2011 in double AA, he will be in the majors by 2014. Are you assuming he is on another team in a trade?
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
I'm actually a fan of Cox (ba-dump), unlike many here.
I could see him at 3B, and Freese at 1B by then. Something (or someone) has got to give (and this is just pie-in-the-sky anyway, obviously).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Good Point
I also envision Ryan Jackson as our SS by 2014. While I hope Greene busts out this year, he will be 30/31 by 2014, so I really think Jackson will be the man at SS
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
I am excited for that lineup, though Freese hitting 3 feels a little optimistic to me.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
If you moved Holliday to 3rd, Adams to 4th, and Freese to 5th, would you feel better?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, unless Freese starts being able to pull the ball (not entirely out of the question)
I don’t feel great about him.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Should say don't feel great about him in the heart of the order.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
One thing that stands out is the bullpen
It is pretty much staying the same. If we make any moves during the season I could see us trade depth from the bullpen. I imagine some minor league pitcher will apply enough pressure to make room for him. We draft so many college arms that plug into the system pretty quick
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 23, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
I'd hope to see Scrabble in the rotation too
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 23, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
I also have a strong, strong feeling we will be seeing Wong in the majors sooner
rather than later.
I think general projections would have him splitting time between High A and AA in 2012, then AAA in 2013.
But if he mashes this year, we may see him sooner.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Holy shit,
you’re going out to shop today? You’re braver / crazier than I am.
Oh, and rec’d.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
WANT
Rotation:
1. Wainwright (re-signed)
2. Hamels (FA)
3. Miller
4. Garcia
5. Lynn/Cleto
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 24, 2011 6:19 AM EST up reply actions
How much will Hamels probably cost you think?
Westbrook and Lohse coming off, there’s an extra $20 million. Now, I know it’s more complicated than that with arbitration, but that’s pretty much the simplest way to say we have money available to spend next year.
I assume we’ll need a 5-year deal in order to get him at the very least so I’ll arrive at that conclusion and figure out his projected cost. He’s 28-years-old next season and the fans in fangraphs project him for 4.6 WAR. Coming off a career high in FIP, I think he’s due for a slight dropoff so I’ll work under the assumption that’s he’s a 4.6 WAR pitcher.
I want a bargain so I’ll project he averages 4.0 WAR for his age 29-31 year seasons. He can obviously out-pitch that being in his prime which is why I’m setting the bar there. I’ll say that’s when he declines and becomes a 3.5 WAR pitcher at 32 and 3.0 WAR pitcher at 33.
So 5 years, $80 million seems fair. I doubt he signs for that low, but that feels like a deal that the Cardinals wouldn’t get royally screwed on.
I AM ACTUALLY STLCARDSFAN4 JUST TO CLARIFY YOUR POSSIBLE CONFUSION.
If you could choose any one pitcher, irregardless of what you would have to give up to get them
Who would you choose for 2012? What about 2014?
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 4:09 PM EST reply actions
Verlander 2012
uhh..,Kershaw or,Strasburg 2014
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
by CodyG on Dec 23, 2011 4:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
actually, halladay in 2012
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
by CodyG on Dec 23, 2011 4:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I like that
Doc for 2012, Kershaw after that.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
inflammable means flammable?
America, what a country.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
by CodyG on Dec 23, 2011 4:16 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
This is a Simpsons' reference, right?
And you don’t need to “de-bone” a fish. You can actually just “bone” it.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
yes, it's a Simpsons reference
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
by CodyG on Dec 23, 2011 4:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Dang it, now I have to change the sign
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Is the correct word
unirregardless or nonirregardless?
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
Does it matter?
Seriously, they need to end that show like 15 years ago. It is terrible.
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 23, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
Most dictionaries list it as “nonstandard” or “incorrect”.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
i wasn't disagreeing
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Podcast listeners
Cardinals have had significant segments on the past two ESPN Baseball Today podcasts. Goold was on for a segment a couple days ago with a Q&A for about 20 minutes, and today’s they talked for a while about Beltran. Karabell even went as far as to say that he thinks STL is the best team in the NL.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 23, 2011 4:17 PM EST reply actions
I hate it when people say that we're the best team.
We’re just screwed from the start then
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Dear GOBs
Eric Karabell knows not what he does.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Um. Sorry. 2011 WS Banner. Best. Team. In. Baseball.
The GOBs know this just happened. It counts until April 1st.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I will forever enjoy Lynn's awkward jump on the pile
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 23, 2011 7:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Must..... fight..... nostalgia!
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7366294/strange-true-feats-year-postseason-edition
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 23, 2011 4:22 PM EST reply actions
Great article by Jayson Stark
Wonderful for reminiscing. Thanks for posting cwsb
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 23, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I forget who has (had?) this as their VEB sig
Something about watch out, the Molinas are everywhere! But from that article, I liked this one:
“This was the third consecutive World Series to feature a Molina brother. So what’s so strange about that? It was three different Molinas (Jose, then Bengie, then Yadier).”
here's his similar article on the regular season
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7365950/strange-true-feats-year-regular-season-edition
A nice tidbit, Adam Dunn’s 2011 SLG. .277, Aaron Miles 2011 SLG. .343
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 23, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone good at making graphs or doing some stat
I was thinking about the dating rule “your age divided by 2 plus 7 is the youngest girl you can date”. If Edward Cullen is 110 years old and is banging a 17 year old Bella Swan. (110/2)+7>17. How many standard deviations is Edward Cullen off a normal curve.
Who in the hell are Edward Cullen and Bella Swan?
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
I've mercifully managed to steer clear of Twilight-mania.
But it’s nice that you can wear your fandom proudly.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
I was told there'd be no
Twilight.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Dec 23, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah. Twilight.
If I knew anything at all about Twilight, I’d have to flag the age/2 + 7 thing, but my ignorance prevents it.
by hangingfromatree on Dec 23, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
unless you're talking about edward
then it’d age*2-7..
> tebow
by cschepers on Dec 23, 2011 4:34 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
that's pretty hard
you’d have to nest several distributions. I don’t think you could do in excel.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 23, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
really
I think you are smart enough to figure that out
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 23, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
you are taking a non-statistical process and trying to find a distribution for it
doesn’t make any sense.
what is more distressing: that he's dating a girl 93 years younger? or that he drinks human blood for sustenance?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
Honestly if it was midseason I'd like the hypothetical trafe
Of Pujols for Wainwright and Beltran. All hypothetical and no bias towards Pujols. Actually a lot of bias towards him.
by Cheeseballs on Dec 23, 2011 4:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I just realized the Cardinals only have 6 Interleague Away games in 2012
Boooo!
If there was ever a NL team geared towards using a DH, it is the Cardinals.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
which two did I miss?
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
How could I forget those?
Well done sir
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
i like how you just assume we sweep and/or are the away team and win in 5.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
OT
been watching smallville season 9 online and just a few things
1. i enjoy that they have brought to life even some minor dc comics, and read wiki while watching
2. Major/General Zod is kinda a freak and always goes sexualish when talking. Like that the orginal Zod is the voice of Jor-el
3. The lois clark thing is annoying
4. Still disapointed that Tom welling was not chosen for the movies
because TLR
That's in season 9?
Holy cats.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
"Kneel before Zod" takes on a whole new meaning, apparently...
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Yeah
why do we have to recite a verse just to unleash him? Surely he should always be unleashed?
Bursting into song.
And who keeps leashing him after we've unleashed him?
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Nah. Colby haters will be Tyler Greene haters.
They would also hate a young Beltran.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
was typing a response and lost it
I liked Colby and dont hate greene, but dont have the same lust as him for others…i rooted for him to get a shot, and last yr I felt he had some steady playing time and still didnt improve on previous stints…as a bench guy I guess im ok with it, but i dont think he’s as great as others do
because TLR
There is a difference between people who form their views based on reality who would have legitimate criticisms of Colby/Greene/Beltran/Miller etc.
and Colby Haters.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Colby haters will also be Shelby Miller haters.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
then screw those people
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
are we going to end up signing ejax?
does veb want ejax?
What do you have against the ring-tailed lemur?
by threadkiller on Dec 23, 2011 7:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If we want an improvement over Westy
We’re better off on a one year deal (maybe Oswalt) so that we can get bigger FAs next year.
If the Cards can work him into the Payroll, (1 and8-10m) I say go for it.
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
would you still be "meh"
if he hadn’t sucked so bad the last time we saw him? i wouldn’t mind seeinghim with a full year under duncan
What do you have against the ring-tailed lemur?
by threadkiller on Dec 23, 2011 7:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
no, it's all about money and years.
he’d be an improvement over the current cast. he’ll just cost too much for too long. we already have five starting pitchers making seven figures or better.
we also have a farm full of guys who will be good and cheap starting pitchers in 2013 and beyond, and three pitchers under contract for several years at high rates.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
only if he wants a one year deal for less than $10m, and he doesn't want a one-year deal for less than $10m.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
We are out of money.
The club may try to sign a cheap utility infielder. Other than that, we’re done.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 23, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
no. our rotation is full.
and ejax is due the lohse deal.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
no
he’s gonna cost something like 4 years 50 million. if we want a starting pitcher, just sign Oswalt for 1 year 8-12 million.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:42 AM EST up reply actions
Plus, draft pick.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
Wait, Oswalt will cost a draft pick?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
No, but signing Ejax will.
(actually, I haven’t checked if Oswalt would cost a pick, but I don’t think so.)
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, I see what you're saying
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:56 AM EST up reply actions
To follow up on the Oswalt pick
He’s a Type A, but Phillies did not offer arbitration (I assume because of some sort of agreement.).
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 3:04 AM EST up reply actions
So will this finally be the year
we switch Robert Stock to the pitching mound?
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Not really.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
Yup. Once he moved to full season ball, the jig was up.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 1:59 AM EST up reply actions
maybe. he looked somewhat better at the plate last year. he had a great walk rate.
there’s still a chance that he becomes a catcher. and there doesn’t seem to be a rush to make him a reliever, given the numerous ML-ready and nearly-so options.
as long as he throws 99 mph, he’s got a legitimate chance to relieve, and he should move quickly through the system once he starts down that road. the only limit is the five years of protection he has from rule 5 drafting. i’d be happy to give him every chance to catch.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
You guys aren't going to believe this
well, maybe you will. At the urging of, I think Fourstick, I pre-ordered an Asus transformer prime for my wife for christmas. I got an email a week ago that they weren’t going to be able to fulfill the order by christmas. Then, I got an email today that they weren’t going to get it in stock in the color I ordered and were offering it to me in a different color that they had in stock, just call in to change the order.
So, I started calling when I left work. I was on hold and disconnected four times for a total of almost 2 hours. Finally when I got help, the guy didn’t know about the different color that they had in stock and were offering to those who pre-ordered. I had the product pulled up on my screen and gave the guy a SKU number an everything, but it wouldn’t come up on the bestbuy website for him. So, I forwarded him the email so he could see it and we got the product changed.
Unbelievable that bestbuy kept the people that were supposed to be correcting the problem in the dark. Also, I have a direct link to buy a gray asus transformer prime if anyone is interested.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I just bought a bunch of tv seasons from them at half off
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 24, 2011 10:11 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
unbelievable...
i’m still hesitant as hell to blame best buy here though. their customer service failed you in this instance, which is their fault, but i think the original problem is not best buy’s fault.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
oh god circuit city.
and you wonder why they went under.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
shut up.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
But, their commercials sed
that “service is state of the art”!
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
of going out of business sales
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
From looking around it appears that asus dropped the ball. They either shouldn’t have made three product available yet or should have actually had it available.
But best buy should have communicated better to their people. The guy said he had just had a long argument with another customer because they weren’t told what was going on.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Dec 23, 2011 8:20 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I just don't like Best Buy
at all. And this seemed like an excellent place for me to throw that one out there!
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
why?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
The big example
Would be last spring. My fiancee bought a turbotax disk from them. Bought it around Christmas but was a slacker and didn’t use it until March, I think. When she opened it, she found it had a couple punctures in the disk. Nothing on the outside packaging and it just sat there for months. We didn’t damage it, it was defective. So she called the store and they said they wouldn’t accept the return and were rude about it. So the next day I called, and “Brenda” told me right away that people fraudulently could ruin a disk after use and get another one. So I said “So you’re basically calling me a fraud”, she got pissed off at me and I got more pissed and then she hung up on me. Called the manager and he was rude also. Called the call center, and that person was awesome but said they couldn’t return.
Turbotax did the download right away so not that big of a deal, but I never have got decent service there. Usually it was just stuff like pushing their insurance/warranty programs in an annoyingly aggressive manner or being a little condescending when you ask (admittedly) stupid questions about products that a tech savvy person would not ask, so that was basically just the final straw for me.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, it's poor communication for sure.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
n/s
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 8:03 PM EST reply actions 12 recs
If
you did this, do you mind if I use the picture for a post on my blog about the trade?
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
this was on beltran's facebook page.
you’ll have to ask him, lol
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
He's never looked better.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Stat team. . .What are Rasumas' projections next year vs some combined Beltran/Jay numbers?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
How do you project how many times
he sets up for a big throw in the outfield and fires it straight into the dirt?
by Uncle Lights on Dec 23, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Al' La Victorino Lawn Darts exposition performance circa game 4 of the NLDS?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Rasmus projects for a .348 wOBA via CAIRO
Beltran projects for a .361 wOBA and Jay projects for a .329 wOBA. Rasmus is the best defender of the 3 year.
I’d say it’s a wash.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
That's slightly optimistic in my opinion.
He’s had roughly a .341 wOBA the past two years with a .311 BABIP. (I purposely left out his rookie year for seemingly obvious reasons). There’s really no indication that’s he above average more than the average player so a .311 BABIP seems about right.
(I assume you picked CAIRO cause it fit in what you thought. Bill James – usually optimistic – agrees with me. ZiPS I’m sure is low on him.)
And what the fuck Beltran has a .367 projected wOBA for James. Wow talk about using specific projections to make your point.
I AM ACTUALLY STLCARDSFAN4 JUST TO CLARIFY YOUR POSSIBLE CONFUSION.
I picked CAIRO because James sucks and ZIPS didn't have projections for all 3 players yet
But I appreciate the insinuation of cherry picking. (I assume you said that because you’re a sack of pubes).
Rasmus has had roughly a .341 wOBA with a .311 BABIP the past two years. He’s also still very young so he should be expected to improve. I see no problem with the CAIRO projections for any of those players.
I notice how you failed to mention that CAIRO projects Jay to only drop .008 points in wOBA from his career mark, despite having a .344 BABIP.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Roy O.....
He would add to the list of aging all stars, Larry Walker, Nando, Will the Thrill, Berkman, Beltran, Can you think of any more guys we got way past their prime?
That's for the best
That one didn’t work out so well
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Shawon dunston
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 24, 2011 12:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Walker
contributed, so did the thrill and could have come back…nando..i must be missing that one
because TLR
Nando was the sweetest
He once pitched when we wore the powder blue throwbacks. He would always chew through the order one time and then get shelled with the birds. We should have used him as a LOOGY.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 23, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
Will the Thrill had an unbelievable age-36 year
with the Orioles and Cardinals (lol on the bird names). Went out on a high note.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 23, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
I freaking loved Larry Walker.
He was awesome in that “I’m almost broken but still awesome when I’m not” kind of way. Too bad he was Canadian.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
They might have been aging stars
but I think although not prime they fit in quickly and produced..
the venezula thing was a project and he was way down hill i think..
because TLR
Roger Maris
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Grover Cleveland Alexander
although he had some terrific years for the Cards
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
Pedro Guerrero
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
How did I forget Pete the drunk
he was awesome!
by Uncle Lights on Dec 23, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
SMOLTZ
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Galarraga?
That was just a one year blip in the middle of his peak. He went on to have big years for Colorado.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
Dennis Eckersley
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
heard Karraker talking about Guerrero today
he recalled that when Pedro came to the Cards, he bought his jersey number from Dan Quisenberry for a case of beer.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 23, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, that's perfect.
Also, Quiz should be on the list too.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Anybody else remember
Eric Davis ?
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 23, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent call
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Bobby Bonilla
Bobby Bonds
Preston Wilson
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 23, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Junior Spivey, Miguel Bautista, Einar Diaz, Mark Mulder, Pedro Feliz, Ian Snell. . .
sorry, just ran out of gas. . .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
tino was done, i think the other names are in a different category
aging but something left..
because TLR
Sadly, I agree. Wonder if the mentor factor plays here. Not bad to have Dunc, Carp and Oswalt adivising the young pitchers. . .
Adultery is the application of democracy to love.
H. L. Mencken
If we wanted the mentor factor why not put Gibson back in the dugout...
I think he has that Cardinal for life guarantee that Benedict Pujols wanted.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 23, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
Because Bob Gibson wasn't exactly known as a patient sensei.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
What was worse Gibson in the dugout or
Ozzie in the booth?
by Uncle Lights on Dec 23, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Genius, I-M-l(s an L)-A
Real Genius.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 23, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know what this means unless it's this
(s an L)-A = an Lamb?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Genius, I-Musial-ly's an LAm?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
SBN'd, didn't know his one took
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Spends his time in a hidden underground dwelling beneath VEB?
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
VEB's basement
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Very recursive
Since VEB is already in the basement (cause, you know, we don’t actually watch the games, we just stare at our spreadsheets)
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
The Christmas present bit with the Cat
on Blues pre-game, killin’ me.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 8:57 PM EST reply actions
Walt!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
Career 293 SB vs 41 CS
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
I Guess We'll Never Know
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Question: Is VEX kind of like Lazlo?
As I was not familiar with him until last night when gdm426 summoned him. Please take no offense VEX. No offense intended, your work is outstanding
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
I don't know who Lazlo is.
There are many more VEBers that don’t show up much anymore that you’ll get to meet along the way.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
80's movie Real Genius with Val Kilmer
Also, I look forward to meeting more old time VEBers
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Lazlo was smarter than both the kids put together.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Look like we're the only old timers who remember this MtFbwy
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
thanks cscherpers ... I for one was feeling like an odd ball if not for MtF...
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
Bold confession:
I’ve also never watched Pretty in Pink all the way through. In addition, never seen Anchorman.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
you sir are roughly 10+ years my junior IIRC
How about Breakfast club?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, many times.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Good then, there were some pretty good movies, not all Pretty in Pink
On another note and back to the youngster movies “Weird Science” Kelly LeBrock anyone?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Typical teenage party
you know, chips, dip, chains, whips.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Sure but from a teenage fantasy perspective was pretty hot ... (Kelly LeBrock had a British accent)
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
(that's a line from the movie)
Yeah, Weird Science was a fave.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
doooh ... was going with vibe of you not liking teenie bopper movies and mind was not in proper phase alignment for lines
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
ahoy. let's keep the cheesecake photographs off the boards.
nobody wants this place to turn into a locker room. anybody who wants to see kelly lebrock is just a images.google.com away.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
Noted and understood tom, apologies to all
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
thanks
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
and apparently
you have to be careful with flippant, off the cuff remarks as well.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
what was that about MtF?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
earlier today
I made a reply to rocKStark that amounted to a TWSS, at least to me, and people got bent out of shape about it. It was seriously just a passing remark and wasn’t anything any different from what my friends and I say to each other. My wife just laughed, shook her head and walked off.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks man. I was feeling a little down just then
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, I wasn't meaning 'you' you.
just a general all inclusive you.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
nah I got that, I meant I guess I wasn't the only one getting "attention" today :)
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
it was the favorite movie of a high school friend..
i liked it up until the whole popcorn thing at the end. always thought that was kind of dumb.
(of course, i’d say the same thing about the c4 scene at the end of caddyshack, but that’s a different argument)
> tebow
Well, now you're just wrong.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
popcorn scene was dumb as hell
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
in its defense
it did lead to a ‘popping popcorn with lasers’ segment on mythbusters that was entertaining.
> tebow
Proved or disproved?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
you can pop corn with lasers
but not on that scale. and the house wouldn’t really have exploded.
> tebow
But were they using modern popcorn kernels or popcorn kernels available at the time of filming?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
xactly
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
the house would have if they'd used
cardboard, paper mache, and weak-assed glue.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
How about "a simple matter of pumping about 50 thousand gallons of water down your golfer hole"?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
this is in response to your second point about Caddy Shack, sure you knew but don't want to offend
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
pretty much
and its one of my favorite movies, so I can’t really come down too hard on it.
> tebow
by cschepers on Dec 24, 2011 11:18 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
For fans of movie lines, it's chock full of them
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
You've never watched Real Genius?
How is this possible?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
I vaguely remember it.
Don’t really remember that guy, though.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Small character who was known about and reviered as the smartest the uni had ever had but cracked under pressure, still lived in the depths of the uni but was only a rumor until he appeared to Val and crew
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
he 'appeared' because he used their closet as a doorway.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't mean he was a ghost, only that he was known about from history but no one had seen him or was sure he really existed/was still around
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
I know
just couldn’t pass up the chance to explain how he was in the story to begin with.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
right
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
I would have thought this group had all seen it
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Multiple times.
But then, I’ve seen thousands of movies multiple times.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 23, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Avid movie fans guys are cool
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
So are bow ties
and fezzes.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 24, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
Proof
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 24, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
this was the impetus for the comment
gdm426 called VEX hope that worked if not search VEX
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
We're going to spend the rest of the off-season
rosterbating about no-trade clauses, aren’t we?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:44 PM EST reply actions
Or, possibly, bitching about people rosterbating about NTCs
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
or the merit of college sports.
(why is this a meme?)
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
Save us, fink.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
FOR YOUR FANTASY TEAM
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
Woo going to apply for a visa after Christmas
Those Austrians will never see it coming
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
Armed with a credit card no less!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
you caught he said Austrians right? or not so right?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
you understand the source of your confusion is that there is actually a player named "who" playing first base, right?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
What? Second base!
I brought this up a few nights ago tom s., where you lurking? Or overseeing?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
there was a "who's on first" routine? no, i missed it.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
Yes, yes there was
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know...
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 24, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Shulda known, note to self
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
That's a pretty good default assumption.
And not just around here.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
SMART ASSERY ON VEB WHAT HAS HAPPENEDTO US
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
HOW DID THAT NOT GO IN
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 9:59 PM EST reply actions
we've been very fortunate this period
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
No kidding.
Get to start 2nd on power play. Maybe they can get things going.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'm looking forward to seeing how Boy
reacts to getting Lego Mindstorms. He didn’t ask for it, so I’m going out on a limb.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, that's pretty awesome
which reminds me that i wish i had a young boy to buy for because zen magnets are freaking awesome
actually, maybe i just want someone to buy some for me
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, those look cool.
That is a perk of having a boy. I get to play with his presents.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Are these like Bucky Balls?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 24, 2011 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
those were on woot a couple weeks ago for next to nothing
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Happy Chanukah!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 24, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting food for thought by Goold
#Cardinals are spending $25 mil total on Berkman and Beltran. Pujols’ contract averages $25.4 mil per with #Angels. Health key to #stlcards
Who believes Berkman and Beltran will be worth more WAR combined next year than Albert? Put me in that camp.
the two them were each essentially as valuable as him last year
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Goold, how many years are Cards in on Berk and Beltran?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 23, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
10?
No wait, its less than that
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
It's close
The 10 years is the key though.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 23, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
That's what I was thinking...
if one of Beltran or Berkman go down, Craig just plays. Seems like Beltran makes good health less important.
Sign Roy O
this is something that i've been thinking about in terms of the latos trade.
especially with a pitcher with an injury history, the latos trade carries special hazard for cincinnati because all their eggs are in the latos basket. if the guy needs TJ surgery halfway through 2012, the reds will get no value for a year. the padres can be more sure of getting some return on the trade.
to a lesser extent, this is true of replacing albert with berkman and beltran.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
You have to include whoever plays in Beltran's spot though, too
So its Berkman + Beltran vs. Pujols + Craig/Jay
For next season, I don’t think we necessarily win out on this. The real win comes in the second half of the Pujols contract.
And we’re still a better tea than last season overall, with Waino back, better bullpen, etc
agreed
it’s that back-end of Pujols’ contract that is the killer. The Cardinals are probably going to be slightly worse for the next 2-3 years w/o him,but, they’ll likely be better in years 5-10 of the contract due to not having that $20+ contract on the books.
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 24, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
in tribute to Uncle lights thoughts
i did this..http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2011/12/23/2658774/aging-stars-cardinal-style
i felt like there was some good starting discussion in thread, maybe some more?
because TLR
Your daily December Christmas song:
Well, it’s Christmas Eve Eve and the Big Day will be upon us very soon now.
Here’s one of my favorite modern Christmas tunes:
Blues Traveler – Christmas
Because nobody asked, tomorrow I’ll put up the list from the whole month.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 10:32 PM EST reply actions
i'm going to piggy back on you a bit continental for this xmas eve
introducing YWO’s second favorite Christmas tune: Universal Robot Band’s 1977 “hit” Disco Christmas
i especially like how santa puts the reindeer in their place
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 24, 2011 2:42 AM EST up reply actions
night made
just bought $60 worth of gift cards to the kirksville bar for $30
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 10:35 PM EST reply actions
you know what really grinds my gears
dress shirts being packaged up and pinned together so you can’t try them on. how am i supposed to buy clothes before i know if they fit? ridiculous
knowing your size...
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
because they all always fit the same?
i have a few shirts that i like that fit really well. i bought a shirt that says it was the same size. it was freaking huge. that’s just not how clothes work
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Fitted dress shirts sort of do work that way.
I’ve never had one not fit.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN CARLOS BELTRAN
this.
walk into a store, know i’m 16 36/37, buy shirts, walk out.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
People do have different body types
Also different brands seem to have different ideas when it comes to slim fit/fitted/modern fit/classic fit
If you do have a fairly “standard” body in terms of the proportion of your arm length, neck size, waist, chest, etc., then clothes buying is probably fairly simple, but the problem is that not everyone has such a body.
i'm just saying he needs to find a store/brand after getting measured.
life is easier after that.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Not everyone necessarily wants all their dress shirts to be exactly the same in terms of cut
Or has the money to be picky about buying all their shirts from a particular store/brand.
Life would just be far easier if I could easily try on dress shirts that happen to be on sale/clearance just to see if they happen to fit my body well.
work with what you're given.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
then lower your standards. or learn to sew.
i would love it if there were a good way to find cheap, good-fitting, stylish shirts cut the way i like. until there is such a way, i have to wear some ill-fitting shirts, since i don’t want to blow my paycheck on my wardrobe.
another way is to go to goodwill or another store and look for nice shirts that fit. it’s a needle in the haystack hunt, but it can be fun and cheap.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
thank you.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
so your clothes don't actually fit
you just wear them anyway
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
this is entirely not true.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
well, that's what tom was saying that you appear to be concurring with
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
my shirts fit well because i have a pretty standard body type.
but my point is that if you put the effort in and get measured/find a brand that works and spend a little more money than you might otherwise you’ll do more than sufficient finding shirts that you feel like fit and you look good in.
i realize you want to try them on, but it just doesn’t happen. if you are just dying to try something on, see tom’s suggestion.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
Well if I had a little more money, I'd just get my shirts tailored
But the idea that dress shirt shopping is easy really only holds if you do have a fairly standard body.
Ad hoc buying on a budget is still possible, but it is more of a finding a needle in a haystack experience than just expecting that a given store will have your size in stock at a decent price.
Or you can take the time to try them on in the dressing room.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm... this looks very interesting.
have you tried any of this WMT?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 5:54 AM EST up reply actions
No, but I'm thinking about it.
I wear a standard size with very little tailoring needed; I usually get my shirts from C. Tyrwhitt (cheaper) or T. Pink (not cheaper) but I need some new ones and a new suit or two and was going to order from one of these sites.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 24, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
The suits seem like a lot of money to gamble on one of these sites
but the shirts I’m definitely interested in trying. Just seems like a lot more could go wrong for a suit, an it’s like 2-3x the cost.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Depends how picky you are about the fit.
The collar and sleeves will usually be fine, but the “tailored fit” varies between brands. Also, I know for a fact that Hugo Boss dress shirt sleeves run long. I need 34" sleeves, but get 32/33s in Boss.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 1:50 AM EST up reply actions
although I havent shopped for dress clothes in some time
if i remember correctly a 17 neck is a 17 neck
because TLR
by punchinjudy on Dec 23, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
much like a 32 waist is a 32 waist
shit
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
not nec.
in jeans 32 waist varies from maker, in dress shirts they tend to be the same sizes i thought..
because TLR
by punchinjudy on Dec 23, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
so let's assume that the shirts that i have that already fit are the weird ones
i’m just supposed to experimentally determine how $40-$100 shirts fit me?
let me try on the clothes i plan to buy
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
just go get measured somewhere and have them tell you what size you are.
trust me, this is a really easy process. and dress shirts are just something worth spending $60-100 on per shirt.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
i don't have a problem with the price of the shirt
i have a problem spending $40-$100 on a shirt that doesn’t fit
it’s rarely the neck that doesn’t fit. neck size just isn’t a good projection for overall upper body size. last shirt i bought was like a freaking balloon
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
again, just go get measured.
and then buy the fitted shirts. if you’re of normal body type (which i believe you are), then they should fit fine when you buy the correct neck/arm size.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
why can't i just try on clothes
i think it’s a reasonable expectation.
i mean, even if i have a normal body size, different people have different preferences about how their clothes fit
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.
Besides, there would be less packaging to throw away if they weren’t packed like that.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
maybe i'll get particularly crazy next time and just open one
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
If anyone gives you any trouble
just stab ’em with all the damned pins.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
it's just an industry standard.
besides, if the particular shirt doesn’t fit you then none of the shirts in the store will fit your properly in all likelihood.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
What place are you going to that won't let you try on clothes?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
my wife who just sat down and noticed the
non baseball conversation asked are you women
because TLR
by punchinjudy on Dec 23, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Quick, go back to sports!
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
WASN'T IT AWESOME WHEN TEBOW HIT THAT HOME RUN!
(is she gone yet)
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
TEBOW BASEBALL > teebow football
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Yea but it still sucks. Some places just have odd sizing.
Last year I fell for some sale at Jos A Bank, it was buy any one thing get two free for everything in the store and I got a bunch of shirts. I usually dont buy shirts there and it turns out they are for people with big waists and arms. Even though they were my size, I had what seems like 5 pounds of.extra shirt to stuff into my pants. Luckily there is a nice lady at my cleaners who tailors shirts for cheap and she fixed em up for me.
Whats even worse is those shirts that come packaged in the box with the ties. Then you open it and the tie is made of some crappy material that falls apart after wearing it a few times.
by mick311 on Dec 23, 2011 10:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
never buy from jos a bank. ever.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
or Men's Wearhouse
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
my three men's wearhouse suits and five men's wearhouse shirts are perfect, actually.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
and ties.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I have two really wonderful suits from there
but I’ll never buy from them again. Just didn’t like experience. I felt like a piece of tuna being towed along with the sharks circling.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
okay i can agree with this.
i had a really great experience the first time and then a not so great experience the second time so i can understand where you’re coming from.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
that and it took three f'in trips over there
before they got their shit together. I almost just ordered the thing online and took it to a lady that does alterations.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
really? i only had to go once.
then did they did all the alterations and shipped it to me (at school, no less) for free.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
(shipping was free, we obviously paid for the alterations)
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
I called and talked to a salesman.
they had the suits that I wanted shipped in and I had to pick a day to go over and get fitted for them. The day that I could go just happened to be the day this guy had something else going on but he assured me that one of the other salesmen could help me. I go over and the other salesman acted like he had no idea what was going on and told me that the suits never showed up. It takes me an hour and a half to get there each way.
Next day I call over after a considerable amount of cooling off and talk to the first salesman and he tells me that the suits were there the whole time. The other little shithead didn’t want to be bothered with it. So I go a second time to get fitted and then find out that I won’t be able to take the fucking things with me and that I’ll have to make a third trip because I wasn’t going to count on them to get the shit right on mere faith.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 23, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
that's pretty bad. how long ago was this?
it’s extra bad considering that i’m 95% sure those guys at least kind of work on commission, meaning it would seem like the second salesman would want the business.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, but ive worked in sales for a while and this
Happens a lot. I manage now so its even more frustrating to see and I try to not let it happen but typically the salesman that originally helps that customer is the one that gets the commission and the numbers, so typically if they start a sale and then the customer returns and the sale is finished by someone else the original salesperson still gets it. Now sometimes commission is split or whatever but a lot of the time with asshole sales people if you have to return to pick something up the new person helping you really doesnt give a shit for that reason. Not saying thats what happened, but its definitley possible.
by mick311 on Dec 24, 2011 12:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
that's kinda how it seemed to me.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 24, 2011 7:51 AM EST up reply actions
One of my brothers
who is an extremely nice guy, was a heavy equipment salesman. He got a promotion to the big corporate office and wasn’t used to the kind of backstabbing that went on there. There was this one little bastard that sold several pieces of equipment out from under my brother. It went on until my brother cornered him in the restroom and let him know in no uncertain terms that if he did it again, my brother was going to beat his ass to a bloody pulp. If my brother says that, you tend to believe him.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 24, 2011 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
It was about a year and a half ago.
the competition between the salespeople was literally palpable. Luckily, I’m never going to need that many suits in my life, so I may never need to do this again.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 24, 2011 7:50 AM EST up reply actions
I usually dont and have come to the realization
That spending extra to get nice dress pants/shirts is totally worth it. I have so many shirts I dont even wear and then a few nicer ones from Brooks Brothers, BRepublic, Hugo that fit way better and look wsy nicer that I wear all the time.
Although, for ties I feel the opposite is true, def not worth it to ever pay more than $60-$70 for a tie.
by mick311 on Dec 23, 2011 10:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i agree with all of this.
though i thought paying $60-70 for a tie was paying more, haha
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yea it is.
a couple of my favorite ties I got on sale at Mens Warehouse for like $20 each and the few times I have bought ties from Brepublic and Brooks Brothers they ended up totally sucking and falling apart.
by mick311 on Dec 23, 2011 11:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
can't ever go wrong with 100% silk.
which is why that’s all i buy.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
$60-70?
Pretty sure I’ve never paid more than $25 for a tie. But then, I haven’t bought a new tie in like, 15 years? I have a few skinny, a few medium, and 1 almost wide, in a variety of patterns (about 8 or so in all). I’m done buying ties, as I only wear them to weddings and funerals, and maybe one other event in a year.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 24, 2011 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
reading the thread
Calvin Klein makes “slim fit” shirts that don’t flair out but actually taper in. They are great and all I wear.
by OKCardsfan on Dec 23, 2011 11:31 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
that sounds desirable
i still want to try them on
by prophetjohn on Dec 23, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
you can
I get them at the outlet mall at lake of the ozarks. Honestly they are the best if you don’t want to get a tailor.
by OKCardsfan on Dec 23, 2011 11:48 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I just go to stores that don't have someone stationed outside the dressing room and try the dress shirts on.
most places even have a place to put all the pins. I’m in FL, but I figure its the same up there.
by rumors on Dec 24, 2011 12:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
the tv show discussion
ok so a few of us were talking about tv shows and staying or leaving. Man up has been up and down by ABC but I like it enough to watch them.
it’s being pulled for this though… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_It_%28TV_series%29
i cant see how the modern day bosom buddies will be much better
because TLR
But that's the show that gave David Freese the start to his acting career!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
I give it 4 episodes
I may watch whatever one Freese is on
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 24, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Question about Beltran signing
Why is it assumed that Beltran will “fill-in”, “play when we need a DH”, “Spell Holliday”, etc. Aren’t we paying this guy $13 million a year to start in CF and Jay will be our fourth outfielder?
Just win
I think the idea is that when you take into account
-Beltran “filling in” for Craig at the beginning of the year
-Beltran “filling in” for Craig when he’s spelling Berk
-Beltran spelling Holliday
-Beltran “platooning” with Jay in center
-Beltran DHing for those abhorrent American League games
the dude’s an every day player. The only reason it’s phrased as “fill in” is because Beltran will probably be the one bouncing spots (CF, Corner OF, DH) while the others will have a routine spot. I don’t think anyone has Beltran fourth on the OF depth chart, though.
by StillLostinNC on Dec 23, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
i suspect he will get as many PA's as he is healthy for.
whether they take place in CF or not will depend on how he looks in spring training and April, as well as how jay looks and how well craig heals.
he just spent the better part of a season in RF, so i kind of doubt he’d flinch at getting the josh hamillton treatment of moving between CF and a corner.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
Having a four-man outfield rotation works out well
especially when one is coming off injury, one is 35, and one is unproven. It will be just right to give everyone plenty of at-bats and rest, when need be.
I think he plays CF when
Holiday, Craig, and Berk are also on the field. If one of them are not on the field he plays in their place with Jay or Schumaker in CF.
by rumors on Dec 24, 2011 12:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Blues win column
Wooooo
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 11:49 PM EST reply actions
I can't believe how good they've been since Hitchcock took over
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 23, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
the blues under hitch and mizzou basketball under haith have just been amazing.
the rams needs a coach like that.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Hey now, Illinois needs a few coaches too
Our Basketball and football teams have been underperforming for years. Volleyball on the other hand….
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 24, 2011 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
lol ron zook.
and bruce weber really, really needs to go. i laugh at illini fans who don’t share my opinion on that.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 24, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
opinion is divided on campus
The slow tempo offense and the underperforming (especially last year) is really getting to some people
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 24, 2011 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
The only reason Illinois was in the game last night was because of Bruce Weber.
Well and MIzzou being Mizzou….
I AM ACTUALLY STLCARDSFAN4 JUST TO CLARIFY YOUR POSSIBLE CONFUSION.
There was a sizable bit of luck involved tonight
but yeah.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 23, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
make up for wednesday night, which was a joke.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 24, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
The Blues were good before Hitchcock took over...
They just had a low hockey BABIP, is all.
fuck the pacific division. they should forfeit their automatic 3-seed.
the central has THREE teams that are better than dallas right now and a fourth just a point behind.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
craig and craig.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 23, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
and yadi
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 24, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Craig 99% of the time, I think
especially if they are considering using him at first if/when Berkman leaves next year.
2013 lineup
SS Furcal
2B Wong/Cox?
LF Holliday
RF Beltran
1B Craig
3B Freese
C ??
CF Jay????
P
2013 lineup doesn’t seem set at all. Adams, maybe? I feel like some of these players may be trade bait in the end
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 24, 2011 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
we also have some $$$$ to spend next offseason.
free agency will be a much more viable option. unfortunately the outfielders in the free agent class kind of suck.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 24, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
and if berkman comes out and has another 3-4-5 WAR year he probably won't retire.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 24, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
I really like Kinsler
but the Rangers have a $10m option, so it will have to wait
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 24, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
wong answer.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 24, 2011 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At what point do the Rangers
have to make a decision with Profar, Andrus, Kinsler?
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
Idk if they do.
Andrus could be a backup at 2B/3B/SS, if Pro far becomes what they think he will.
by rumors on Dec 24, 2011 1:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think its likely that we re-sign Yadi
and I could also see Berkman coming back if he has another good year. Wong will be in the majors by next year unless he has a huge setback at AA this season, so I’d pencil him in there.
I’d love to see the Cardinals make a run at Josh Hamilton with the Lohse/Westbrook money that is coming off the books. With Hamilton in the fold, our outfield would be Holliday/Hamilton/Beltran, which would be ridiculous.
Think of this lineup:
Furcal – SS
Wong – 2B
Holliday – LF
Hamilton – CF
Berkman – 1B
Beltran – RF
Freese – 3B
Yadi – C
P
….. I can dream, right?
If we signed Hamilton
I would let Berk walk and have Craig or Adams at first. I would also bat Wong 1st.
Wong 2B
Freese 3B
Holiday LF
Hamilton CF
Beltran RF
Craig/Adams 1B
Molina C
Pitcher
Furcal/Green SS
YES!
by rumors on Dec 24, 2011 12:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hamilton in CF doesn't really help with the OF defense problem
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 24, 2011 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
I like Upton
Depending on the price, it could work
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 24, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
Ran it through the Optimal Lineup Robot
Wong 2B
Freese 3B
Holliday LF
Crag/Adams 1B
Beltran RF
Upton CF
Molina C
Pitcher
Furcal SS
by rumors on Dec 24, 2011 1:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
His offense more than makes up for it
plus, he been a plus CF by UZR in 2 out of the last 3 years. Even if he’s a minus CF as he ages, he likely wont be terrible for the first year, and the Beltran’s contract expires and he could move to RF.
not sure
Texas seems pretty uncomfortable with him in CF
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 24, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
I think we'll end up signing Yadi
And Cox can’t play second and I’m not sure if Wong will be ready by next year. I’d rather sign Aybar to a multi-year deal and move Furcal to second until Wong is ready.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, the Cox to 2nd thing gets more bizarre to me every day.
The Cardinals have not once indicated they see him as a potential 2Bman, and his reviews at 3B have been mediocre at best. I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that he’ll get moved to 2B or that he should.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 2:54 AM EST up reply actions
Friday, Friday, hammered as fuck on Friday, Friday
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
booooooooooooooooooooooooooo
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 24, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Remember how the Cardinals drafter Pujols' cousin in 2005?
Even though he was terrible and was arrested several times? Clearly an organization that doesn’t treat Pujols like family
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=pujols001wil
http://www.examiner.net/news/law/x2122534831/Lawrence-police-arrest-former-draft-pick-on-warrant
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
jesus the K/BB ratio is terrible
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 24, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
That's the real crime.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
stop hating on Skip
Seriously, to have a 5th outfielder who can hit around .300, back up 2b and be a prime pinch-hitter; he’s just fine so get off his case. And yet Tyler Greene is loved. Here is a guy who has accomplished nothing in the majors….except steal a few bases. He’s 28 and hasn’t even landed a bench role in the bigs and some people have been pushing to have him as the starting SS. His upside is as an adequate back-up, maybe pinch-run in late innings. Personally, I’d like to see us trade Boggs and Matt Carpenter to the Angels for Alberto Callaspo. He’s more an everyday player and can spell 2b, ss and 3b very effectively.
wat
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 24, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
skip schumaker hasn't hit .300 since 2009. beyond that, he doesn't take walks, he doesn't hit for power.
he’s a terrible fielder at second base or in center field. he does basically nothing well. as a fifth outfielder he’s not a disaster, but he’s worse and more expensive than either adron chambers or eric komatsu.
i’m not a huge tyler greene fan, so i’m not going to explain the fandom he inspires. but he is capable of playing shortstop and plays for league minimum.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
this. i'm still confused on the greene love as well.
but chambers and komatsu do what skip is being paid more to do worse. and skip is most definitely not a “prime pinch hitter”
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 24, 2011 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not on the Greene bandwagon either
If he can prove he is capable at the major league level and not just an AAAA player I’ll be sure to jump aboard.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 24, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
I feel like I should setup a macro with this reply
so I can just hit Ctrl-S for all Skip-related posts.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason #ImFeelingBetterThough
by The Continental on Dec 24, 2011 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
Skip Schumaker is the Tim Tebow of Baseball proven winner.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
Except even though he's vastly overrated
He Still does some things well just in an unconventional fashion. I call Tebow is an average to slightly above average (which is clever because he completely polarizes people and 99% of the population will NOT accept you calling him around average whether they love or hate him) but very different type of QB. Basically Vince Young only with better mechanics (but still terrible mechanics) and decision making and no walking out on his team. Skip Schumaker on the other hand is a lovable but terrible baseball player
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 24, 2011 1:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hah is this a real argument?
You realize that since Skip has been on the team we have underperformed our projected win total every year, right?
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I can only assume this is sarcasm.
If it’s serious, I lose faith in humanity.
I AM ACTUALLY STLCARDSFAN4 JUST TO CLARIFY YOUR POSSIBLE CONFUSION.
Greene has actual upside.
Schumaker does not. Its still possible that Greene turns into a useful player.
If Greene has such upside
how come he folded when playing for TLR but Skip did not?
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
Greene has had 357 major league PA's spread over 3 seasons
which is not nearly enough to declare that he “folded.” It means that he’s struggled in what has been essentially a portion of a rookie MLB season, without ever getting consistent playing time. Many players need to play consistently to improve at the major league level, and he’s never gotten that opportunity. He possesses what scouts call “tools” – he’s fast, he has power, and he has the potential to play good defense at SS.
Skip Schumaker possesses none of these things; Skip’s only tool, if you can call it that, is a declining ability to hit for average. He doesn’t do anything else well, and is essentially a useless player.
arent what you are saying here is basically he folded when given
an opportunity. Hey I understand “tools” I think all of the Rams # 1 draft picks have good tools but if they don’t translate to the big stage???
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 2:06 AM EST up reply actions
Ultimately the term is subjective and meaningless.
Did Cal Ripken and Ken Griffey Jr’s tools not translate to the bigs while Albert Pujols and Alex Rodriguez did? No. It just took the first two a bit longer to become great than the second two. No one is saying Greene is absolutely 100% going to be great, but when the bar is set as low as Skip Schumaker, and the player you are talking about has been so good in the minors, it is in your best interest to take a chance and put him out there to see if he can replicate the numbers. The worst thing that could happen is that he will suck just like the guy you were going to use anyway.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
How can you compare Greene to Ripken or Griffey???
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
If you wish to not be accused of trolling, please read my post:
Did Cal Ripken and Ken Griffey Jr’s tools not translate to the bigs while Albert Pujols and Alex Rodriguez did? No. It just took the first two a bit longer to become great than the second two. No one is saying Greene is absolutely 100% going to be great, but when the bar is set as low as Skip Schumaker, and the player you are talking about has been so good in the minors, it is in your best interest to take a chance and put him out there to see if he can replicate the numbers. The worst thing that could happen is that he will suck just like the guy you were going to use anyway.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
The point of the analogy is that even the BEST PLAYERS EVER sometimes do not hit when they first come up.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
And the point of my analogy is some guys have all the tools
but it never translates to success…..To many intangibles than just 5 tools of the game. please don’t repost the same argument again or go on to tell me how Mickey Mantle was once sent to the minors until his ol man kicked him in the butt and he changed his number from 6 to 7
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 3:04 AM EST up reply actions
I think the argument commonly expressed here is that Tyler Greene has never or rarely gotten any sort of consistent playing time
he’s accumulated a semi-decent amount of PAs, but never had anything approaching a stretch of consecutive starts.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 4:22 AM EST up reply actions
I will repost the argument if you fail to address it.
Which you have. Your argument is essentially that some players fail, therefore Tyler Greene is a failure.
That’s a worthless argument because there is tons of data that shows that a player’s first 350 PAs can completely fail to show how good he will be even if he is one of the best players ever. We have a ton of data on Tyler from the minors, where he is an above average player, and we have a big opportunity for him to prove himself this year. Hopefully he pulls it out. And hopefully you pull your head out of the sand.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Skip was lucky and got a few hits when he came up.
Greene got unlucky and Brendan Ryan broke out. Greene has been great in AAA.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
hey mods, i accidentally flagged this and can't unflag it.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
It's Skip's fielding more than anything.
The only positions he is an acceptable fielder at (LF/RF, probably 1B/3B if he were ever to play there) are positions where his bat is unacceptable. He’s a decent hitter against lefties, but not enough to bump anyone else off the roster. If he has merely a slightly below average defender at 2B, I think you’d see people stump for him as a platoon guy.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 1:59 AM EST up reply actions
I call shenanigans
which one of you is behind this?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
The wileyvet sn certainly seems suspect doesn't it?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
why?
i flagged him (so far i’ve given out 22 flags in this thread) but the screen name doesn’t ring any sort of bell with me.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Wiley vet is a well-worn trope of pseudo value assigned to old players who stick around but not because of any particularly good skills.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
by hazel on Dec 24, 2011 2:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
oh. okay. i was reading it as wil eyvet and was super confused
because i didn’t know who that was.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
No, I have no idea if he is a troll or not.
But if I were to create a VEB troll account, it would certainly be something like “craftyvet” or “OneofTonysGuys” or “GrittyInTheClutch”, or “TheRealBudNorris”, etc.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
Wileyvet has posted here before.
Did you actually flag him?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 24, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Doesn't one of the regular posters, fang perhaps or Cody, have multiple back up user names?
Was mentioned sometime in last month or so and one that you, IIR, deleted? I think that one was a reworking of your user name.
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Lol
I wanted to play baseball!
-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 24, 2011 8:04 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
We have to keep Skip and all ther rest of those sub par outfielders around
for when Holliday decides to rupture his appendix, catch a moth in his ear, or hurt his finger. Glad Craig was there to rob the HR cause Holliday would have pulled a Canseco and changed the outcome of the greates WS of all time.
I wish I could decide to rupture people's appendixes
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 24, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
Obvious troll in this thread.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 24, 2011 1:15 AM EST reply actions
At least he hasn't declared TLR to be a genius yet
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 24, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
Most people here don't seem to have a seasoned troll detector as me
they just reply over…and over…and over…and over…
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 24, 2011 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
nice claim to fame...here lies Bill he was good
at detecting trolls……….and he let you know about it.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
so how does that compare
to yourself, who gets his rocks off by annoying people that post serious, passionate arguments to your idiotic claims?
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 24, 2011 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
I sir state my opinion and speak from the heart
unlike you I don’t play the good guy all the time just so folks can say “Oh good one Bill, I agree with you”
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
Bill is the guy up there who thinks he
is the VEB police and thinks he’s awesome because he doesn’t respond to “trolls” then makes an idiot of himself by responding.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
I agree you would think he would not be so judgemental
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
well really both sides could use a change of tone
i think most of the arguments were civil. you were in the minority, so it was an uphill battle from the start, but there’s no reason to get hostile
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Bill is lucky you got between us. Thanks for making me not
say something I regret BVHeck.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
I'm going to continue to flag these posts as troll until they stop being trollish or go away
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Scoot and Bill both card carrying members of the
VEB police.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
pretty much anyone here is the police.
there’s a flag button that anyone can use to denote what they deem to be objectionable. you’ve taxed all of my grace.
there was one legitimate thread you started—the “who are old guys the cardinals picked up and were awesome” thread—but the rest of your submissions have been completely and utterly inane.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Oh no please don't flag me........
Apparently if we don’t like others opinions around here we just “flag” them as objectionable. I thought this was America where we all are entitled to an opinion even if it goes against the grain. I didn’t read when I signed up that I had to be a sheep.
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 2:49 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not the type to flag you, but VEB isn't public property
You can have whatever opinion you like, but the mods may decide to warn you or ban you.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 2:52 AM EST up reply actions
I'm new here sounds a lot like comunism
BTW should I be afraid of these “mods” and how do I throw a flag?
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 2:54 AM EST up reply actions
to flag a post as offensive or inflammatory, click on "actions" to the right of "reply"
then click “flag”
Just as an fyi, here are the links to VEB community guidelines and the rules for the enforcement of said guidelines. If you have a genuine interest in hanging around in these parts of the internet, you should consider glancing through those.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 3:02 AM EST up reply actions
thanks for leveling the playing field,
i guess.
to uncle lights: we generally are pretty hospitable. you may want to consider the fact that it is not the larger community who is in error, but instead you.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I will not be cyber bullied by a
bunch of “flaggers”
by Uncle Lights on Dec 24, 2011 3:06 AM EST up reply actions
no one is trying to bully you.
people tried, numerous times, to explain their points in well-reasoned ways. your continued stubborn shirk of their salience, in addition to your intentioned tragic absurdity, have driven me and others to label you as a detriment.
you’ve made your spectacle. we have all made our gawps. just act civilly in the future and there won’t be a problem anymore!
normally i’d ignore this sort of thing. maybe i should have in this case as well. i hope you are well-meaning and are a productive member of VEB in the future! i really mean that.
going to bed now.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 24, 2011 3:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
okay robot, i want to know who's behind all these accounts.
they are writing the things i would write if i wanted to give VEB a collective aneurysm, so i’m fairly certain they’re not serious.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Somebody get the pentagram ready...
That’s how you summon the robot, right?
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 24, 2011 2:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
twitter usually works.
he’s probably charging the batteries, as all rational robots do at 1:43 in the morning.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
HA! We humans need no charging, just incredibly unhealthy amounts of caffeine, sugar, and ginseng.
Manchester City: 44 points, 14-1-2, 1st in EPL, +38 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 4 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 24, 2011 2:49 AM EST up reply actions
robots run on liquor, not electricity. haven't you watched futurama, man?
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 24, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I'm on my phone, so I'm not banning or deleting.
I am going to say:
1) If you disagree with another poster and can’t get along with him, leave him alone. Stop baiting him;
2) If you think someone is a troll (I.e., someone deliberately trying to cause a reaction from others), don’t respond. That’s exactly what’s sought.
None of you are using the internet for the first time. You know better.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 24, 2011 3:24 AM EST via mobile reply actions
So you are one of the people who has that sort of power...
I’m really confused on who the mods are. I know azru is on, but now I guess you are too, though you are not listed in the guidline enforcement thing. I have never even seen a couple of the listed mods post around here. Anyway, thank you for the work that you do. Not including the last week or so, VEB has always been such a great environment of passionate, informed Cards fans. I really hope it continues to be what it always has been.
by rumors on Dec 24, 2011 3:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I assume that hasn't been updated since 2008 or so when it was posted.
I think the current mods are any of the authors of main posts. Basically, scroll all the way down to where the managers, editors, and authors are listed below the comments section. (though VEP is listed there too, and I’m not sure if he still has any such powers, if he ever did. I certainly don’t think he has employed them recently if he does have them.)
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 24, 2011 4:27 AM EST up reply actions
I can still write font page posts
But I never had mod powers.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 24, 2011 4:40 AM EST up reply actions
Im always on my phone when im on here.
So I can’t see that. Thank you though.
by rumors on Dec 24, 2011 9:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
DanUpBaby, azruavatar, the red baron, tom s, bgh (i think bgh has mod powers anyway)
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 24, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
plus VEP, those are the people who are listed, anyway.
i know there are still some people with extra powers who aren’t listed.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 24, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I read the guidelines and other doc and didn't see anyone listed
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 24, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
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