R.J. Swindle's curveball briefly makes me forget about Carlos Beltran
by DanUpBaby on Dec 22, 2011 2:00 PM EST
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PrintHey, Wikipedia, tell me in one sentence why my life will be much, much better if the St. Louis Cardinals decide to break camp with R.J. Swindle—they picked him up on a minor league deal yesterday—as one of their left-handed relief pitchers?
Swindle throws five pitches: a fastball, slider, change-up, cutter, and a 55 mph curveball with a delivery between three-quarters and sidearm.
Thanks!
R.J. Swindle throws something you might call an eephus pitch. What makes it awesome is that he just calls it a curveball. His fastball sits at 83, his slider lies down at 72, and his curveball digs a hole and buries itself in it at 55. He's probably the only pitcher in baseball who faces a severe platoon disadvantage against beer-league softball players. This is why he's a cult-hero AAAA reliever, instead of a regular AAAA reliever.
One of the sad things about the way the talent level in baseball constantly rises is that as it increases there are fewer and fewer ways to meet it—during World War II the Browns could successfully deploy a one-armed man in the outfield, but at some point you have to maximize the efficiency of your swing and optimize your pitching mechanics because any slack in either thing is the difference between an MLB pension and a bobblehead night in Memphis.
Eventually the best baseball players will probably all have to swing mostly like Albert Pujols, or have a repertoire that mostly resembles Roy Halladay's. But so long as R.J. Swindle types can continue to appear at the fringes of the Major Leagues or arrive on rafts of hype from Japan's weirder leagues I'll always root for them to beat out J.C. Romero.
After the jump: Video of R.J. Swindle's awesome curveball, fished from an apparently suspended Phillies blog's Google Cache.
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I was throwing that pitch in 8th grade!
If only I wasn’t right handed.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
i'm right handed but i threw that pitch left handed in 8th grade
while playing wiffle ball, that is
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
Swindle's curveball could
set up Motte’s fastball and make it seem like he’s throwing at 110 mph.
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
I actually flinched in unison with the hitter.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/11/10/658174/f-a-t-of-the-land-r-j-swin
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
...
If some team is willing to take a shot with a pitcher who is hated by scouts but loved by statistics they might find a gem in the rough with R.J. Swindle.
Seems to be a good omen in a post-Luhnow world that his brand of analysis didn’t leave with him.
Sign somebody.
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 22, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Late news breaking/This just in
Goold with a titillating report on the Cardinals Beat blog:
The Cardinals’ negotiations with the agent for switch-hitting outfielder Carlos Beltran progressed to a point Thursday morning that one source with knowledge of the discussions described the Cardinals as the “leading candidate” to sign the center fielder.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
man
Beltran is probably the ideal free agent signing to make me really excited about our chances next year. The defense would be terrible, but
Furcal
Beltran
Holliday
Berkman
Craig
Freese
Molina
Descalso/Greene
Pitcher
is just straight up nasty. Pretty excited about this.
MV5 1/2?
flashback to 04 birdos…team mantra “if they score 9 runs we score 10, doesn’t matter whose pitching we’re gonna win 100+ games dammit” attitude!
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Towel
That team puts up like a .340-something wOBA….
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
even better...
three of the first four hitters switch hit. then the 5-6-7 is craig-freese-molina. that’s just downright nasty and probably the best 5-6-7 in baseball outside of maybe texas, new york, or boston.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
even w/o Beltran was better this year
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
what?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
We lead NL in most offensive stats ... false logic though cause we need Beltran to bring some of Pujols offense
never mind, nothing to see here, move along
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
ah.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
That's why he's better 4th
Because the 4th place batter hits leadoff fairly often in the 2nd inning
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I think you'd rather have him 3rd
There’s a good chance one of the first two batters gets on. 4th you want you biggest power guy… which is probably also Berk. Beltran, Berk and Hollidy are all projected to hit about the same anyway so it doesn’t really matter.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
emphasis mine
The Cardinals’ negotiations with the agent for switch-hitting outfielder Carlos Beltran progressed to a point Thursday morning that one source with knowledge of the discussions described the Cardinals as the "leading candidate" to sign the center fielder.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I, too, wondered how significant that would be.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
YES
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
So Goold states we did a great job of outlining how Beltran would fit with the Cardinals and links the thread on facebook
And we have a 1000+ talking about college sports.
Grit != flat out sucking.
You're surprised?
At least it was sports related and not dating.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
In our defense,
I think there might be about 3,000 Beltran-related comments on the blog if we go back to Azru’s main post on the topic.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You shouldn't be disappointed. 42% of all blog comments deviate from the original posting's primary topic of conversation.
The 42% is an Internet League average, and though VEB is a bit worse at 47%, our REC/FLAG ratio per 9 posts of 7.8 leads all other Internet League blog teams.
WWCD? CDGAF.
Can you isolate VEP comments, and do you have a table so we can correlate the mean?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
So we have a Relevance+ of about 89?
Meh. I’ll take it.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Now if we can just get Neyer...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Goold- Cards leading candidates for Beltran
sounds like we stepped up and increased our offer
this is exactly what i wanted to hear. really didn’t want to lose out on this guy due to a lowball offer
carp and bman are playing for 12
wonder if they are offering beltran more
TLR is gone, long live the king
Yep.
I’m really not opposed to a 3 year deal for around 33 million. He’d almost certainly be worth 2.5 WAR per year that we’d be paying him for, and there would be significant upside for surplus value in the deal. Even if he missed an entire season due to injury he could still be worth surplus value over the course of the contract.
I really hope any third year is a vesting or team option.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That would be preferable, yes
but if a guaranteed 3rd year is the difference between him coming here or going to Toronto, I would definitely give it to him (unless his AAV demands are sky-high).
There is injury risk there, but he put together a very consistent, very valuable year last year and has a long history of being a very valuable player. Even if he is injured frequently, he is still good enough to be worth paying; he was worth 3.0 WAR in 2009 in only 81 games, for instance. Add to this the fact that he will be playing in a 4 man rotation with a backup if need be (Craig), and the risk is not all that high. The Cardinals will also have money to burn in the next couple of years, should the contract be that cumbersome.
The 2014 rotation
will hopefully be:
Wainwright
Miller
Garcia
Lynn
Martinez
Costing about $25m.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
and we have Rzep and Rosenthal as backups
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
i feel we always overlook rosenthal (obviously aside from vols)
how many teams would he be the best pitching prospect on?
where does he rank on the depth chart for us? miller, martinez, lynn, zep, jenkins, cleto, rosenthal?
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 22, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I do not overlook him
See below
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 22, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
higher than those last 4 guys IMO
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Is there a ZiPS projection for Beltran?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
some are only on Insider- for example, Pujols.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
.282/.363/.474
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
what's that work out as over, say, 400PAs
with -5 defense in RF? About 2.5-3 WAR?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
About 2.3 WAR
Assuming .320 league wOBA.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
.36 .24 .36 5.3
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 22, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
I like Bel-trans and I cannot lie
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I throw a 55 mph curveball from three-quarters!
now if I was only left-handed and could throw 82 mph…
One down
nickcafardo Nick Cafardo
Red Sox out of Carlos Beltran hunt.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 22, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
my bad
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 22, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Cool
I got a chick who can help me out with that
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 22, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
I smell burning rubber
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
that story brings new light to the "action" part of your name.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
BoSox were not the one I was worried about
but still, I’ll take any increase in our probabilities.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
FWIW
DrewWansing Drew Wansing
@miklasz Buddy of mine is on same plane as Beltran right now heading to Stl from Puerto Rico. Got his autograph..
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
HAHA....I haven't seen the airport sighting meme in years.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
BUT IS HE GOING TO STARBUCKS?!?!?!
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 22, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Olney had that tweet yesterday about
There not being flights from PR to STL and that was a potentially a concern of Beltran’s….lol, the flight prob has stopovers in TB and CLE first.
by mick311 on Dec 22, 2011 2:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm all for signing Beltran
But has there been a player high priced player highly sought after by the Cardinals with more risk?
- He missed half of 2009 and 2010 due to knee injuries
- He is 34 and will be 35 to soon after the start of the season.
- It is unknown if he can still play CF and assuming he can play, how well
- IF Beltran can’t play CF, he essentially blocks Allen Craig for a large portion of 2012. Craig would only pick up at bats as a Holliday/Beltran/Berkman replacement and off the bench.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t sign Beltran, I’m simply saying there sure seems to be much more risk, even in the short term. I’m truly hoping that the Cardinals have done their homework and that Beltran will be able to play a substantial amount of CF (in 2012 and 2013) after Craig returns from his injury.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
i was about to post it too
but i guess it’s lower risk because it’s a lot less of a commitment.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
Beltran is at least coming off a productive season
and has played in the OF in the last half decade. I don’t think we could say the same about Berkmania last offseason.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
Eh, Berkman really only had one bad year
Which was 2010, and it was well documented he had knee problems during that year. Berkman was also the same age (at that time) that Beltran is now.
I also fully believe Beltran is going to require a 3 year deal. The risk level difference between a 3 year deal and a 1 year deal are huge
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
But Berkman's one bad season followed a knee surgery.
Beltran underwent a knee surgery in January 2010, came back in the second half of 2010 and then hit very well in 2011 while missing little time due to injury. Beltran actually appears to be a safer bet to be valuable, which is why he will require a second year and maybe a third year.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I have no problems with 3 years for Beltran
Seems like he will be a good value sign
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 22, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Berk also had those pythons
and the love and adoration of all those little Berkamaniacs.
By the way, he has three demandments: training, saying prayers, eating your vitamins, and believing in yourself.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
That's... That's 4
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
Also, an interesting tidbit:
After purchasing the company from his father in 1982, Vincent K. McMahon had plans to expand the territory into a nationwide promotion, and he handpicked Hulk Hogan to be the company’s showpiece attraction due to his charisma and name recognition. Hogan made his return at a television taping in St. Louis, Missouri on December 27, 1983 defeating Bill Dixon.31
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk_Hogan#The_Birth_of_Hulkamania
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
This leads me to conclude:
Berk and the Cardinals will eventually agree for Berk to be traded and become a “heel” for a Cardinals rival. “Bollywood” Lance Berkman will wreak havoc on us until he strikes out at a crucial moment against Cardinals up-and-comer Shelby Miller, whose stage name will be “The Three Strike Kid” until later being changed to “The Shel-Shocker”.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Dec 22, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fritz' comment about "Berkmania" plus me having time on my hands
inevitably led to me imagining Lance Berkman as Hulk Hogan. Obviously.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Where are the Oliver projections for 2012?
Why can’t I find them?
(I’m sorry to reply with this to a Berkmania comment.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Here's the free StL preview
http://www.hardballtimes.com/forecasts/players?org_id=STL
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
They organize it kind of weirdly though
Berk is under RF options, but not 1B
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
I saw the free StL preview but wanted Beltran's projection.
Oh well. I’ll probably buy it tonight.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Oh
Yeah, I don’t spend money of that stuff. I did download the free Cairo ones, though.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
CAIRO has Beltran at .281/.360/.474
with (I think) decent defensive numbers
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
that's the exact same as Zips
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
That .360 OBP would be sexy
for a 2nd place hitter.
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
How many games and homers?
Also, where can I download this?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Replacement Level Yankees Weblog
This is the place that does those ridiculously early projected standings. I don’t know much about CAIRO, if it’s the webmaster’s own projection system, or some adjusted version of existed projections, or what. But it links to a spreadsheet with the projections in it.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Thanks a lot.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
damnit, my account was cancelled
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Berkman was only a 1 year deal though
and only $8M at that
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
I'd say it was even riskier that'd he would have a productive year, though.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
Not sure I agree
But the risk/reward scenario is definitely worth analyzing.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Beltran was really good last year, and plays a position (RF) that we might be able to find him a good 300 ABs in
whereas Berkman sucked in 2010, and had to play a position (RF) he hadn’t played in like 8 years.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Berkman was viewed as riskier in terms of health.
That’s why he only received a one year deal and Beltran will likely receive two or more years.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Some people thought he would be -25 runs in RF
insane.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Some people think Beltran will be -25 in CF.
I think that’s off the mark, too.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Especially since he made a pretty substantial move up the defensive ladder.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Between days off, injuries, and DH days
there will be plenty of AB’s to go around, and Beltran is perfect insurance for an extended absence by Craig.
Beltran just had a fully healthy, very productive full season after getting his knee fixed, so the risk doesn’t seem to be excessively high. He was also worth 3.0 WAR in only 81 games in 2009, so even a part-time Beltran is a pretty damn good player.
There is downside risk
but there’s also significant upside. If the contract is $11m AAV, we’re paying for about 2.5 WAR/yr, with the potential to get a lot more. Similar to the Furcal contract in a lot of ways—not cripplingly large, plenty of opportunity for surplus value. I like it a lot.
There absolutely is downside risk
There always is when you are paying over $10M/year for a player who will be 35 one month into the season. It could be a huge drain on the team budget if his knee problems act up again and he sees limited time.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
yep
can’t get the good without the bad.
That said, I would much, much rather sign a series of Berkman/Beltran/Furcal contracts over the next ten years then sign something like the Pujols contract. The latter is almost all downside risk, whereas the former offer a chance to get significant surplus. And if it goes south? A team with the Cardinals’ payroll can afford (coughKyleLohsecoughJakeWestbrookcough) to eat an underperforming $10m salary and still contend.
Great point.
At first, losing Albert really hurt, but I feel so much better now about our club going forward. Its great to have payroll flexibility and options going forward, especially with our strong farm system
by mick311 on Dec 22, 2011 3:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Berkma/Beltran/Furcal contracts. . .
are not at all alike.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 22, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
they are in that it's a formerly top shelf but recently troubled/injured player
signing for relatively few years and less than exorbitant dollars, who has a reasonable chance to get back to good form, as well as a chance to continue to have problems.
But we should spend that 10 somewhere
Beltran’s floor is probably as high as Ross’ median.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
I’m not against signing Beltran. I just recognize there are some risk factors and most of us are assuming he is going to be healthy and that he can still play CF
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
even if he can't play center
i still think i’d rather sign him than Ross. maybe not.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
If Beltran can't play center
Then I’m not sure I want them to do anything. Ross isn’t worth the money he is asking.
Honestly, after Beltran, there are simply no impact OF bats left on the market.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
If Ross can be had for cheap we might as well
He mashes rights and can play a solid center field. I think we definitely need some depth – we’re relying on Jay, Craig and Berkman at this moment.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
My guess is
That Ross won’t be cheap. Wasn’t he looking for 6-8M/year on a multiyear deal?
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
If that is what it takes to get Ross I'd rather pass on him
I guess he’s still milking that 2010 post season for all it’s worth.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
To his credit he was bonkers during that playoff run
.296/.390/.686
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Ross is absolutely worth 2yr/$12m
but possibly not 3yr/$24m.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
If Beltran really sucks in CF, or physically can't do it
I’m guessing Craig would only be a -10 or so there. I reckon against LHP we could just go with a murderer’s row of Holliday, Craig and Belt in the OF and just say to hell with the defense, we’ll outscore them anyway.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Down to 3 and there were previous reports the Indians aren't really legit- he declined a trade their last year
ScottMCBSSports Scott Miller
Cardinals, Blue Jays and Indians continue to talk Carlos Beltran today as talks appear to be coming to a head.
So its likely us vs Toronto,as of yesterday it sounded like Toronto had the better offer (3 years) but he probably preferred the Cards. Now it sounds like we increased the offer today. I say he signs with us before the end of the day.
With Goold reporting that we are the "leading candidates" I agree
He is usually not one to say things like that without significant confirmation.
My guess is
2 Years at $26, with a third option year that vests with playing time during years 1 and 2….probably an easy vest, like 120 games averaged a year.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
That would suit me fine.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
heyman's last line in this article
http://jon-heyman.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/33714192/33992620
The Cardinals are believed to have made atwo-year offer for at least $8 million a year at one point, but Beltra was believed looking for three years.
yeah umm 2/16 ain’t going to get it done.
Wow thats a crazy lowball offer
That means they valued him at 1.8 WAR? That must have been their opening bid. They’ll have to increase that up to 12-13 million AAV if they want him for 2 years.
Unless the market for him is way more depressed than we think
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
But I would be floored if he got less than 10 million per year
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
If it comes out that the Cardinals only offered something like 8-10 million for 2 years
and he goes elsewhere, I’m not going to be at all pleased.
Perhaps the reasons there have been so many teams "in on him lately" is the price has been/is relatively cheap
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly I'd be shocked if he signed for something that low
especially with Lozano as his agent. I would think a few teams would lowball offers a shot and then move on when the price escalated.
Sounds like that Cardinals have moved on up into the next, more realistic price bracket. Beltran’s still a legit bat; he’s not going to sign for under 22-23 million total value at the lowest end.
But when offers were on low side there where many teams in was the premise, offers going up now so teams are falling out
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Respect, man. He needs RESPECT.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
We?
This is a 35 year old OF coming off of major knee surgery who has real questions about his ability to play CF.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 22, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
I kind of assumed VEB was making the same kind of AAV forecasts as I was
But I could be wrong about that, too.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
When did he have knee surgery?
wasn’t that like 2 years ago?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
And by the stats, at least, he hasn’t been able to play an adequate CF yet. He hasn’t been given the opportunity, either, but his value to the Cards depends strongly on his ability to play CF.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 22, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Not really sure I agree
might be frustrating to have a butcher in CF 2 or 3 games a week, but I could live with it if we can go Craig-Berk-Holliday-Beltran-Freese in the middle of the lineup, especially with a GB-orientated staff and better defense at 2B and SS.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
If, however, Beltran is a butcher in CF. . .
his $13M (or whatever) contract might lead to bench time for Allen Craig.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 22, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
he's not "coming off of" major knee surgery
he had it in his past. This is like saying David Freese is coming off of major ankle surgery.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
That's a fair criticism. . .
although the point still stands. Would you prefer “injury-prone and aging”?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 22, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
como? he signed a 6y/$106m contract.
that’s an AAV of almost $18m. you think he’s going to be worth 6 WAR every season for the next six seasons?
reyes is a good player. but he’s going to get older. he’s going to get injured. there’s huge risk associated with a 6-year contract. if you projected him to be worth more like 4 WAR every year, the WAR value would look pretty normal.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
does anyone know if this made Beltran cry?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I don't think free agency really works like that in the real world
That fangraphs war valuation is more of a post-hoc evaluative tool than a predictive tool, I think.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
It seems to me that Toronto is often in the losing end of FA battles, and they have lost a
bunch of great talent throughout the years.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
Heh Heh, he said head
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
Bradford was a righty specialist
Swindles is a lefty, and IIRC doesn’t have a massive split (but may be wrong on that one).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'm listening to Trent Reznor's soundtrack for The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo right now
Plus I’m “working”
bollocks
Does it sound like the Social Network one?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
have we seriously not signed beltran yet?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
no but we did solve modern day chattel slavery in the last thread.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
i can't believe i spent 5 hours arguing about college sports
that’s like the thing I give the least shits about in this world.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
i think vep will argue about pretty much anything
just for the sake of arguing
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
by IHeartBoog on Dec 22, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is patently incorrect
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I pretty much agreed with you on that topic, but didn't want to waste a bunch of time wading into it.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 22, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
curious, what was the debate about? whether they should be paid?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Yes - basically whether some college athletes should be paid and/or whether the NCAA is unfairly profiting from some college athletes
Presumably the question is just whether some football and men’s basketball players get paid since they’re the only sports that make money for schools and/or the NCAA.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 22, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
i certainly don't want to rehash it here
i was just curious. thanks WMGT
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Start reading
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with you, IHB.
Sign Beltran already. That takes us from a good, but very thin team, to a dangerous team with a good chance to make it 12 in 12! Carlos isn’t Albert, but this signing would replace a good deal of the WAR we would be missing.
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
beltran + craig + berkman at 1b should be roughly equal to pujols + jay, right?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
heyman...
“cards the Carlos favorite”
by hockeyno93 on Dec 22, 2011 3:33 PM EST via Android app reply actions
someone go rec all of azru's posts in this thread.
this was hilarious. thanks azru!
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Swindles got major props about two years on Beyond the Boxscore and other sabr-savvy sites for being one of the best FAT (freely available talent) guys out there
mainly due to putting up minor league stats that would suggest he could be pretty dominant in the majors. Funnily enough, I always thought he was a knuckleballer (probably because he throws an eephus, and I’m mentally confusing his name with RA Dickey). So I’m pretty happy with this pickup.
FWIW, I think this is a better acquisition than JC Romero. I’d have been happy if we just went with Swindles as the second LOOGY this year and dump him if he sucks.
Still bitching to contact.
New Heyman tweet
while indians are in mix for beltran, a 1b (pena, kotchman or d. lee) is more likely for them. cards the carlos favorite
What happened to the Sox and Jays?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Sox bailed out
No idea about the jays
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 22, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Jay
Ok I am excited for a beltran signing, but I’d liek a better everday option in CF than jay. I’m just not sold on the guy yet..
If beltran signs what does the Of look like before craig comes back
because TLR
Holliday, Jay, Beltran
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
And Schumaker
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
I think they send him back
no room if Belt signs.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
or keep him until craig comes back
not sure if the new manager will want 13 pitchers or not
because TLR
Jay is alright for being cheap
I’d rather spend our efforts upgrading at 2B.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
If we sign Beltran
I guess we’re done. Beltran + Furcal + Romero is, I guess, about $22m-ish, and I could see us adding one more low-level utility backup. Nothing else major.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
yeah that's good
next year in FA we should get a 2B or SS, or maybe try to trade for one.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
What about Furcal?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
He's only 1 year after
If we sign a SS move Furcal to second for that year. We need to get a long term MIF IMO, and the market looks good next year.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
But Ryan Jackson man!
And Wong and Cox are also on the verge
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
We can trade one of them
Aybar is the shit.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Cox never plays 2B IMO.
He’d be there already if he could.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
i think cox is as likely to be the RF of the future as the 2b of the future. not that i think either are
terribly likely.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
I don't think id want to spend big money on a 2B next year with Wong in the minors
as long as he continues to play well
Aybar it is
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
GreenetoCenterfield
CraigtoSecond
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
Yadi2Second
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
aw
where is that guy
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
MIA since the implosion thread a week or so ago
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 22, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
wasn't about meme's was it?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
no, a dispute with someone
it was a fairly minor portion of the entire shitstorm that day, though.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 22, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'm wondering if was absent that day, but I doubt it, short term memory loss "damn"
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
He and prophetjohn got into it about something
but I could never actually decipher what Y2S was upset about. I just didn’t have a good frame of reference for that discussion. If he doesn’t come back, that means no glossary update, which means I’m doing a meme death post.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
is that entire thread gone or just the bad parts
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
about 40% of the thread from a week and a half ago is gone
at least
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 22, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
It had to do with Y2S asking a question a month or so earlier
pj then gave a sarcastic response, Y2S didn’t recognize it as one and tried another question, another sarcastic response, ect.
i think it came down to the two not really liking each other
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 22, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
I thought nobody liked pj
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
I like him just fine
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
/not serious
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
(be careful he doesn't see this)
Let’s talk about something else
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
I heard Steve Jobs died
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
iSad
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
by Action Jaxon on Dec 22, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Sweet!
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
meant to whisper (sweet one Paulspike)
Not that I’m glad about the subject line
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Someone please put up the Y2S signal
I vaguely remember that,and hope I was not part of it
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
the thing that sucks is if you go back and read the thread, they actually apologized and made up
but their comments crossed each other in the night, and then the argument just kept going
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
there was more after the 'don't respond' stuff
too
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 22, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
no offense to anyone
but i feel like people take this stuff a bit too seriously… its an internet blog..? who cares if someone doesn’t like you?
i only care what the mods think
the rest of you can go [REDACTED]
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
can i point out something kind of obvious?
it’s the holidays. it’s entirely possible that he’s traveling. let’s not create drama if we don’t have to.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
With Beltran
StL may become the “Comeback Player of the Year” destination again. A place where Killer B’s get their sting back!
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
Fathers will sit their sons down
And tell them all about the birds and the bees.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
by mattybobo on Dec 22, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Who else is still playing from that team that needs a ring?
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 22, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
probaby still better than Skippy
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I haven't really thought about it till right now
but if we do sign Beltran, this will be really odd to watch as a longtime Cardinals fan:
Albert Pujols replaced by Lance Berkman at 1B, and Carlos Beltran roaming the outfield; Back in 2004 I would have bet everything I owned this situation would never come to pass.
You think it will be odd for us to watch?
Imagine Beltran in CF, while Waino is pitching, watching curveball after curveball drop down on the outside corner of the plate for a strike.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Perhaps uncomfortable?
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
he probably won't even think about it
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
i've been looking for that gif...anyone have a higher one with the fox trax?
I used it as a “lesson” to my roller girls.
Wainwright said he was just gonna throw the best curve of his life and if beltran hits it he hits it. I’ve been reading a lot of Wooden and Coach Augie and it most of the content is the mental aspect of just living in the moment and letting the score take care of itself. This is the perfect example.
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
I posted it a couple of weeks ago.
I can’t find it now.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
FOUND IT.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Dec 22, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
looking at this now
I can’t help but think of Beltre homering from one knee off Carpenter. I can laugh about how hilarious that swing was now because WOOOOOOOOOO.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Beltre does that pretty often actually
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
seems crazy to me
to take such an extreme uppercut swing at a pitch that’s breaking down sharply to begin with….obviously it must work for him occasionally but it’s so all or nothing. If the pitch isn’t actually a curveball, or even if the pitcher hangs it badly enough, I’d think it’d be tough to adjust to quickly enough to foul off.
On second thought, between the no-cup thing and the don’t-touch-my-head thing, Beltre’s probably certifiable to begin with anyway….
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I short of felt that away about JimEd's swings (i.e. the uppercut)
It felt like he was guessing. But when he guessed right, wow!
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
It's just for show
He takes a pretty normal swing then falls to his knee for no good reason. I doubt it’s him being cocky or anything, it’s just a weird quirk but it’s not an unusual swing of any sort.
Not afraid to nitpick
And Oswalt in rotation?
Just win
by The Duke on Dec 22, 2011 4:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Except Beltran is coming off a really good year
by mick311 on Dec 22, 2011 3:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yep
We should have some sort of sweepstake on the CPOTY award. Could be an interesting one to predict.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
and he was only a killer b for a little bit
not nearly as bad for astros fans as Berkman…and lets not forget Dotel was a legit astro till they traded him for beltran
because TLR
Seriously, I have this buck that continues to bang his antlers on my window
I believe he is a member of the ‘soft-helmet’ generation
"Why does everyone always forget about Trevor Rosenthal?"
-VolsnCards5
Beltran! Beltran! Beltran!
Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran! Beltran!
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
by azruavatar on Dec 22, 2011 3:55 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
valdes
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 22, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You mean
velez
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
valdes
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Possible future headline:
Cards’ Kyle Lohse credits teammate Carlos Beltrán during Cy Young Award acceptance speech.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
Also, does anyone know how to find hitting splits against a particular team?
Seems like Holliday, Berkman, and Beltran were always Cardinals-killers, and now we’ve got a chance to have them all
Here
is Holliday’s
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
Near the bottom of baseball-reference careers splits
as a confirmation, i looked up berkman
.313/.415/.601
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 22, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
In almost a season worth of games.
154, to be exact.
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
yeah forgot about him
he wasnt an astro in my mind..with the exception of Beltran the others had been there a bit
because TLR
Dotel is a former-everyteaminbaseball.
I’m guessing Arthur Rhodes probably laced ’em up for Houston at some point in the last 4 centuries as well….
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
have we signed beltran?
I’m getting a lot if weird chatter.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 22, 2011 4:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions
could also be the forest people...
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 22, 2011 4:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Mo is exec of the decade (or picking on the handicapped)
Hey Astros, how about if we give you Stavinoha and David Carpenter for Craig Berkman and Carlos Beltran? Oh, and could you talk with the A’s so we can throw in Brett Wallace for Matt Holliday?
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
Holy fuck
keithlaw: Gio to Nats for Cole, Norris, Peacock, and Milone. Love this for Oakland.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
According to Sickels
B+, B, B, B-
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
yeah that's definetely gonna happen now
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Except for the Phillies and the Braves
Who are going to stomp them this year. They’ll be prime in a couple of years when the Phillies contracts start to explode.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
The Phillies are going to tank incredibly hard in 2-3 years
It’s going to be like watching the titanic sink
and it's gonna be delicious.
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Like watching that hot girl from high school
that didn’t want to dance with you go fat
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
i will use their tears as lube.
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Dec 22, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Given the current status of Ryan Howard
I would say those contracts are already beginning to explode. There’s a lot more exploding yet to come, but that’s a team that’s running out of time fast.
will Strasburg ever be healthy though?
guys who consistently gun it at that speed have an abysmal track record of staying healthy, I thought.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
I feel like that's probably a confirmation bias thing
I have no data to back me up, but I have a feeling they don’t get injured any more than the rest of the population of pitchers. But who knows
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I would imagine that there's something there
More velocity just necessarily means more energy/stress going through the rotator cuff and whatnot. Can’t imagine it’d be THAT big of an effect though, 97 isn’t that much harder than 93.
Not afraid to nitpick
Yeah, there's only been a couple of pitchers that throw anywhere near that hard
So he’s kind of in uncharted waters.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that he's probably not far off the normal population though
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
And we'll see how Carlos Martinez handles it in a couple of years
:-D
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
or Cleto if he sticks as a starter!
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Seems like there was a guy....
named Gibson, who lasted a little while.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Dec 22, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
They probably should do it
Maybe as early as 2013 they’d be awesome: Harper Fielder RZimmerman Werth (presumably bouncing back) Espinosa Morse? would be a hell of a core to go with Strasburg JZimmerman Gonzalez. I have no idea how good the peripheral guys are though.
Not afraid to nitpick
they need to sell tickets
and they can take over the DC sports market (because Dan Snyder has run the Redskins into the ground, the Caps are floundering, & the Wizards are terrible)
Given that they just burned (by Sickels' ratings)
their 3rd, 4th, 6th, and 9th best prospects from a pretty respectable system, they better have something planned to make that worthwhile.
Yeah that's pretty nuts
And holy crap Werth had a bad year.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
at least the free agent market internalized that
and returned to sensibility this year!
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
Goddamnit Nationals
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
okay so this is one of those guys i know nothing about.
can someone break down gio for me and say whether or not they like the trade for the nationals or oakland more?
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Lefty, ~9 K/9, ~4 BB/9
Ace level stuff, okay command, about a 3.75-4.00 FIP guy going forward I’d bet
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
thanks. so he's a pretty good pitcher.
that walk rate is sort of troubling, though. how long is he under team control? four for one seems hefty.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
He's just entering his arb years I think
And 3 of those guys are likely Top-100 I think
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
jazayerli: Who says Moneyball is dead? The A's acquired Gio Gonzalez four years ago, as one of three prospects in exchange for...Nick Swisher.
I think trade trees are fascinating.
Adam Kennedy → Jim Edmonds → David Freese, stuff like that
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
3 years I think
All arb. This really isn’t a good deal, unless the Nats go nuts and sign Fielder and someone else.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
NOt even sure how that would make it a good deal
especially when Edwin Jackson is on the market.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
No, but it would at least make impactful
He’s a lot cheaper than Jackson.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
He is, but I think they've got plenty of money, and a pretty big market
They can probably afford to take a few risks, financially, in order to establish some success. If they can keep their system together for another 2 years, get Strasburg back, and graduate some of those other guys (Storen, Harper), they could be awesome.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
If they sign Fielder that team could be stacked in 2 years.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Wait,
I thought the hivemind though that Fielder was a fat tub of goo who would underperform his next contract?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 22, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
*thought
The hivemind probably thinks thusly without typos.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 22, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
he is and will
but he’s still a huge player.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
literally and figuratively.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
especially figure-atively
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
probably
but he’s very likely going to give some team at least a few, um, robust years at the beginning of the contract.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
The guy at the overr the monster podcast made a pretty good argument that DiceK=Gio
Gio: 535 innings, 3.93 era, 4.06 fip, 3.98 xfip, 8.6K/9, 4.4BB/9
DM: 622 innings, 4.25 era, 4.26 fip, 4.54 xfip, 8.2K/9, 4.2BB/9
Dice K’s park adjusted era and fip are better than Gio’s.
Sign Roy O
I suppose Gio is young and has upside...
while Dice K is basically toast. Still, you don’t give up four of your top 10 prospects for Gio freakin Gonzalez… Especially considering the system is (was) really good, and the Nationals playoff chances aren’t.
Sign Roy O
Coming into last year I thought of Gio and Jaime as fairly similar
Gio was higher K% but lower GB%. But both were young lefties with dominant stuff that struggled with walks.
However, this year Jaime took a step forward and improved his BB rate, while Gio remained largely the same
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 22, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmmm, that's a good call actually.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
funny typo
should be more like Ovah Da Monstah, amirite?
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Using Cards prospects, this trade would be something like (IMO):
1. Tyrell Jenkins (AJ Cole comp)
2. Lance Lynn (Brad Peacock comp)
3. Matt Adams or Zack Cox (Norris comp)
4. John Gast (Milone comp)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 22, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't trade. . .
Jaime Garcia for that.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 22, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Wow - old memes ahoy!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Szym tweets
DSzymborski: Gio ZiPS – 14-10, 3.55, ERA+ 112
DSzymborski: In Oak ’12 – Milone 9-9, 4.01, ERA+ 101, Peacock 10-10, 4.22, ERA+ 96
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I don't think the Nats rotation is that deep
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
It's not.
They only had 4 pitchers over the 100 IP mark last year: Jordan Zimmerman, John Lannan, Livian Hernandez (!) and Jason Marquis (!).
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Nats look like they'll be a very top heavy talent team
but I think the role players are going to be so bad as to sink them. That or one major injury . . .
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
If they sign Fielder they'll have enough head to take shot
It shouldn’t be that hard to fill out the roster with some averagish players.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Why do you keep saying Fielder?
You saw what Mike Morse did last year, right?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
actually no, i just assumed they were gonna sign fielder
makes no sense with morse.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
not possible
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 22, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Totally forgot about Lannan's existence
has his crazy ERA/FIP split normalised yet?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
nope, 3.70 ERA last year
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
...
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/whats-john-lannas-secret-part-2/
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
He improved a lot last year though.
I AM ACTUALLY STLCARDSFAN4 JUST TO CLARIFY YOUR POSSIBLE CONFUSION.
Okay so the trade market scares the crap out of me
by purple_haze on Dec 22, 2011 4:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This year's FA period has been insane.
Massive contracts for old players and teams shelling out prospects like they’re a readily available currency.
WWCD? CDGAF.
3 arby years of about a 3-WAR pitcher
not convinced he’s much better than Kyle Lohse, FWIW. Especially out of that horrible stadium, although I guess moving to the NL might help. Still, this looks like a big win for Oakland to me. The Nats should probably have just ponied up the cash for Edwin Jackson, who is a similar standard of pitcher, and kept the prospects.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
He's soo better than Lohse
They are going in opposite directions age-wise.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Well that's just clearly not true
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
GIO GONZALEZ IS BENJAMIN BUTTON
you heard it here first!
by Robth on Dec 22, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh yeah I forgot Lohse is 27
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, going forward he's better
but I’m not convinced, right now, he’s any better than Lohse was at his peak. Career xFIP of nearly 4, although I guess he’s at his peak and it’s been going in the right direction. I wonder if the voluminous foul territory and sheer size of the colliseum (or whatever it’s called) hasn’t made him look a bit better than he is. Lohse was a 2.5-3 pitcher at his peak, and I’m not sure Gio is much more than that.
Also think EJax is prob better.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Lohse at his peak was a 4 - 4.40 xFIP pitcher
Gio’s at 4 for his career and was 3.70 last year. I don’t think the ballpark would really affect xFIP all that much, if anything it increases the amount of fly balls he has recorded, which raises his expected HRs.
He also clearly has upside left. I agree that EJax is probably better.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
beltran bells beltran bells beltran all the way
oh what fun
i’d be to sign
carlos b. today, hey!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
by IHeartBoog on Dec 22, 2011 4:07 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
You'd be fun?
Someone page the boyfriend, IHB is getting frisky over a baseball signing.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
by azruavatar on Dec 22, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
DAMNIT
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
just a REC
no more creepiness. (I’m still an admirer however – this chick has baseball smarts!)
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
sidenote
Is there anything hotter than a chick in a baseball hat?
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
A chick out of a baseball hat?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
A chick wearing a Cardinals' baseball hat
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
AND NOTHING BUT A SMILE
:)
We just don't recognize the most significant events of our lives while they're happening. - Moonlight Graham
or an angry face. I dig hate sex.
www.stlgatekeepers.com
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
a chick wearing nothing else but a baseball cap?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Winner! especially if StL cap
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
i'M GOING TO COOPT THIS.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
heh
co-opt. i spent a few minutes wondering what coopt means
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
This is me and "resign" vs. "re-sign."
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The Coopts are a major ethno-religious group in Egypt.
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
no, you're thinking of the copts.
coopts are a place chickens live.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I once wrote a paper on Egyptian Copts' encaustic portraits.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 22, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Here is some site claiming Beltran signing a two year deal
#Beltran will sign with the #Cardinals. They are finishing up a 2 year deal.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Well, they also said
Breaking News: #Nations acquire Gio Gonzalez
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
So then LAW has already reported Cards sign Beltran!
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Do you see a chinchilla?
/ducks
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like this is one of those social studies where they just post stuff right after it gets announced
And get people to follow them despite zero evidence that they do anything. There was a college recruiting guy/site that did the same thing and got an enormous following.
Not afraid to nitpick
Well, no one else
Is saying the Cardinals and Beltran have agreed.
All the other sites are saying stuff like “Cardinals are the leaders” and such
Like I said, I’ve visited this twitter page multiple times in the past few month and it has several times been the lead on information.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Right but it's the same thing
Now that the Cards are the “clear favorite” or whatever, you can make some stuff up in advance and hope to get lucky. Do it two or three times in a row and magically you have connections. Fail once or twice, and you start a new twitter account.
Not afraid to nitpick
For example
BREAKING NEWS: #Angels have agreed in principle to a 8 year, 210M deal with Albert Pujols. #Pujols #WinterMeetings
Mainstream media now picking up on #Angels and #Pujols. 8/210 is agreed upon in principle.
Well now they have the 210M number I reported hours ago. This is a done deal, pending physical in Anaheim.
#Angels offer was 210M until this morning, when they offered 250. I apologize for the wrong number.
Yeah I’m sure it was 210 and then they just threw in an extra 44 mil for kicks.
Not afraid to nitpick
You know
It is possible to have inside info, but not have ALL the inside into
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
When you're basing your entire credibility about one deal
You better have all the info. And then not get a bunch of other stuff wrong too after that.
Not afraid to nitpick
Actually
They are claiming to have reported a number of different signings first
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
See this
http://summerhoopscoop.blogspot.com/2011/06/experiment-in-modern-recruiting-news.html
Not afraid to nitpick
No one is making you believe this source
Not sure why you are so intent on discrediting it.
They reported over an hour ago that Beltran was signing with the Cards. Nobody else is reporting this. There is no “copycat” going on here. If they are just trying to throw shit against the way we will know very soon
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
Because there's tons of these things, there's no use in even mentioning a nameless twitter account that started on December 7th
Who has then proceeded to throw shit at a wall, very little of which has stuck, and then passed along other reports.
Not afraid to nitpick
that's very good of them.
please don’t take this as hostile toward you in any way, but it appears, going back through their timeline, that all they are doing is tweeting what a national (reputable) guy tweets a minute afterwards.
they’re not really breaking anything.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
They also have what looks to be an active, Spanish website
So that would be one heck of a fall-out
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
gio gonzalez is pitching for the UN?
i see black helicopters!
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
well, still more reputable than J.C. Corcoran's twitter account
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
by mattyp on Dec 22, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Tebow > Corcoran
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
deportes?
alright we got an inside man.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
actually, I've been tracking this twitter account since the Pujols/Miami talk.
And they were the first to post that he was going to the Angels
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. - Aeron Damphair from A Feast for Crows by George R R Martin
i mean, i sort of doubt that...
when was it? because there were rumours the night before the angels had made a strong play.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
!!!
!!!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Brandon McCarthy chimes in
Day 1 of Spring Training is going to be a meet and greet party with all of us in name tags it seems.
RHP, C, RHP, LHP
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
do any of the pitchers play as starters?
are they front end or back end?
bullpen guys?
back of the bullpen?
how good’s the catcher?
sidenote: feel free to tell me to go fuck off and do my own research.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I'm just getting my info from Sickels
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Im no expert
But 2 of those guys will be in the A’s rotation next year, pitched in AAA this past year.
The catcher hits well, but no idea on his glove. He was in AA last year.
The other pitcher is 19 and did well in A ball.
You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. ~Jim Bouton
A.J. Cole, RHP, Grade B+. I really believe in his upside. Needs to build stamina and refine his changeup, but if it comes together he could be a Top 20 pitching prospect next year, perhaps more.
Brad Peacock, RHP, Grade B: Borderline B+. Still has some command issues, but his ERAs finally caught up with his components and his overall potential in 2011. Will be ready before Cole but his upside is not quite as high. Future 2/3 starter if all works out.
Derek Norris, C, Grade B: Loads of power, walks, and scouting reports on his defense are getting more positive each year. Ranking may seem high for such a low batting average, but I see him as a Mike Napoli/Mickey Tettleton type who can be productive even with a low average.
Tom Milone, LHP, Grade B-: At some point, the radar guns stop mattering. The guy can simply pitch. He has little margin for error, but he will probably have a better career than hundreds of guys who throw 10 MPH harder.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I really like Cole
was hoping we’d get him. I didn’t realise he was elligible to trade yet?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Oakland A's
you’d need nametags even if there were no trades
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 22, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
So he thinks he's going to be there?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 22, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
...so anybody up for putting Jaime on the trade block?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I mean, I guess so
given that you can apparently trade above average starting pitching for absolutely anything you desire at this point. And then we’ll sign Roy Oswalt for a year!
That's what I was thinking
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i'd like to trade jaime to the angels
for trout, bourjos, and their best pitching prospect.
/duncantothegiants’d
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Do we really need prospects right now?
I guess it couldn’t hurt, but we kind of have a window here. Trading Jaime and signing Oswalt would be nice though.
But I still Jaime has huge upside, we’d be trading a below his value.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
where does his upside end though? more innings per season?
with that team friendly contract, i don’t really see him becoming more valuabe. i’d guess jaime is a good bet to maintain consistent value, than being more valuable in the future, especially in this market. i don’t think a trade now would be selling low at all
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 22, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I guess he doesn't have much more upside
200 innings and a 3.2 xFIP seems like a reasonable stretch for next year. Still he’s so goddamn cheap and good pitchers are so hard to find.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
how would we be trading below his value?
if the market for gio is any indication, clubs are begging to pay top talent for even a slightly above average starter…
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
The Nationals are kind of insane, see Werth
I don’t think this is necessarily the market for Jaime. Also Gio has had like a 3.20 ERA the past two years, he’s bound to be overrated.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
5 picks in the top 100 next year, as well
maybe 6.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 22, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
considering the attrition rate of prospects
lots and lots of good prospects is a much better way of building a core than a few great ones.
yeah, but great prospects are shiny
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Jaime for Shelly Duncan
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh, not a fan of Yankees prospects
by purple_haze on Dec 22, 2011 4:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
So we sign Oswalt for a year?
Then we have 3 starting pitching spots to fill after next season. Miller takes one. Who gets the rest?
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 22, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Lynn and Scrabble!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Martinez and whoever we draft with Pujols comp pick
obviously
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 22, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
We could sign Edwin Jackson for a couple years
And then drop Westbrook and still sign Oswalt. Yay!
NO
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Literal LOL
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Dec 22, 2011 4:46 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
fucking angels fans.
they’ve gotten downright unbearable these last few weeks.
LOL I GUESS ALBERTS LIKES US MOAR THATS WHY HE GOTTED TRADED TO US LOL
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I meant the first comment btw
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
hahaha
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
i have literally never seen a cat's balls before
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
some great flames in that thread
So your post above is really a massive episode of wanking, one which has been done repeatedly here by those before you who, likewise, believed they had discovered fire and rushed to give the rest of us the good news.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Can VEB still laugh about the fact that KC reacquired Yuni?
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 22, 2011 4:54 PM EST reply actions
After Yuni's NLCS performance? I don't know...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I actually sort of like the deal for them
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
he's their aaron miles
i feel for them
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 22, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
missed the negative sign nevermind
fact remains-
Aaron Miles- in the league from 03-11
Aaron Miles- 1.2 career WAR
Right
But in terms of hating a player, watching a guy put up -2.1 in ONE SEASON, trading that player away somehow then watching him come back. Brutal.
Not afraid to nitpick
haha very true
i didn’t even read the subthread, just whenever i see a chance to rip aaron miles i take it.
Aaron Miles got more ROY votes than Matt Holliday!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Yuniesky Betancourt is Cuban for Skip Schumaker.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 22, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this is sad
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
They're one Pedro Feliz signing from competing for the #1 overall pick.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
dayton moore sez: "why can't i quit you?"
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
we wish you a beltran signing
we wish you a beltran signing
we wish you a beltran signing
and a 4-plus WAR year!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
by IHeartBoog on Dec 22, 2011 5:00 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Two years ago, my friends and I held a bacon party and just cooked a shitload of bacon-related foods
And got really drunk. The night quickly devolved around me playing the piano and singing spontaneous dirty Christmas songs
Deck the Balls was popular
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
with my friends and i, this would quickly degenerate.
deck the balls with boughs of holly
fa la la la la, la la la la
deck the balls with balls of ballsy
fa la la la la, balls balls balls balls
balls the balls with balls balls balls balls
balls balls balls balls balls, balls balls balls balls
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 22, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
did it include the incredibly nasty Bakon vodka?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 22, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
deck the halls with beltran's contract
falalalala la la la la
he will make the biggest impact
falalalala la la la la
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
by IHeartBoog on Dec 22, 2011 5:04 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Repost from a month ago while we were waiting on Pujols. Seems appropriate today while waiting on Beltran
A short history of Cardinals hot stove for non-St Louis residents:
1971: Watch for major news in the daily paper or the 5 minute sports segment on the local news. Wait for Baseball Digest to arrive monthly. Wait breathlessly for The Sporting News (known then as "The Bible of Baseball") to arrive weekly.
1991: Watch Sports Tonight on CNN with Nick Charles and Fred Hickman. Watch ESPN – especially for the 28/58 updates. Still get The Sporting News, but not sure why.
2011: Check VEB every 5 minutes. Wonder why I’m not getting any work done. Wonder if Sporting News is still published
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 22, 2011 5:07 PM EST reply actions
1981's crying in a corner wondering why he wasn't included
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
He had that strike
so he should know better.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Dec 22, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
beltran bells beltran bells
its christmastime in st. louie
ding a ling
hear them ring
soon he will wear cardinal red
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
by IHeartBoog on Dec 22, 2011 5:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Have you done joy to the world yet?
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 22, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
i have one ready for once he signs
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
BELTRAN BELLS
BELTRAN’S SWELL
(RASMUS LAID AN EGG)
WE ARE STILL WORLD CHAMPIONS
BUT PUJOLS GOT AWAY
HEY
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 22, 2011 5:10 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Man this is dirty
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 22, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Book of Cardinals, chapter 5, verse 11
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 22, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
So... are we really going to get Beltran?
He has always been one of my favorite players.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN CARLOS BELTRAN
we don't know for sure
but we are composing fan-fiction carols to lure him to the cardinals. it’s like holliday and pies, really.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I think the phrase 'fan-fiction' is danup's bat signal.
I’m not sure you can say this phrase without him entering the thread.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Is he Jewish? He might be Jewish.
מָעוֹז צוּר יְשׁוּעָתִי, לְךָ נָאֶה לְשַׁבֵּחַ
תִּכּוֹן בֵּית תְּפִלָּתִי, וְשָׁם תּוֹדָה נְזַבֵּחַ.
לְעֵת תָּכִין מַטְבֵּחַ מִצָּר הַמְנַבֵּחַ.
nartleB solraC,אָז אֶגְמוֹר בְּשִׁיר מִזְמוֹר חֲנֻכַּת הַמִּזְבֵּחַ.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN CARLOS BELTRAN
by a fink on Dec 22, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE
THE GATES OF OBLIVION ARE OPENING NOW
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
somebody's google alert for "steel pricks" just went off
by DanUpBaby on Dec 22, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No comment.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
by azruavatar on Dec 22, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
but now we know who has said google alert.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
מה זה אני אפילו לא
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 22, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
אני רוצה קרלוס בלטראן לחנוכה
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
I am not translating fink's ripping off from the Siddur
but the above line says, " I want Carlos Beltran for Hanukkah"
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
do you have to be upside down to read that or just have something wrong with your eyes where everything looks upside down?
Or is there a special class or something?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Squint really hard to see the 3D
actually, just right to left
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
i hope this says:
beltran beltran beltran
i made him out of clay.
beltran beltran beltran
in the outfield he will play.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 22, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
you really should be saying a shehechanyu to celebrate Beltran's signing man
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 22, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
he said he wouldn't sign with us
because he was offended that some guy had been posting “SIGN PRINCE FIELDER” all over some Cardinals blog. Ballplayers are touchy these days.
Pujols got run over by greed
Coming off his second WS ring
You can say there’s no such thing as karma
But as for me and Beltran, we believe
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 22, 2011 5:17 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
LOMO haha
LoMoMarlins Logan Morrison
Just heard from my boy that Prince to Seattle is a done deal…
about a 95% chance he is trolling am i right?
My guess
is that his “boy” is trolling him.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Dec 22, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
re: Swindle (apologies for not reading entire thread first)
I wouldn’t call that damn thing an eephus pitch. The speed makes it almost resemble a knuckleball….at 55 (!) mph, I wonder if that means that despite rotating, it’s up in the air for such a comparatively long time that it can potentially knuckle a little.
I love the signing. Totally agree w/ Danup’s point about oddball pitchers, they’re so much fun. But I’d imagine this guy might actually be able to steal Romero’s gig and be useful.
I can’t imagine what was running thru that poor batter’s head as he walked back to the dugout….
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
It's not going to knuckle while spinning
10 year olds don’t throw a knuckleball every time they throw it 60 feet.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 22, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
boog could have knuckled it while spinning
cries
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 22, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I dunno
it spends so long in the air. It only has to knuckle a tiny amount to be the difference between a foul behind a home plate and a liner to center. You’re probably right that it doesn’t (or can’t) knuckle, but I can’t help wondering about it. Especially in windy conditions. I mean, if the local wind speed is 20 mph or more and the pitch is only moving ~55…..
Also makes me wonder what kind of RPM he’s getting on that thing.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
55 is too slow for it to knuckle
Lots of people think Wakefield can only throw that hard, but the truth is that you have to throw the ball 72-75 for it to knuckle the most.
Boog would have made that play.
too slow?
that’s a new one on me
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
There's no point in teaching young kids to throw a knuckle ball
Because they generally can’t throw it hard enough to be effective.
You have to throw it in a certain velocity range for the aerodynamic effects to be maximized.
Boog would have made that play.
So, a choice
1. Way overpay for 2 years of Beltran and his knees
2. Beltran for 3 years and a lot of praying that he’ll be “in the best shape of his life” in the 3rd year since, as we all know, he’s 1 year away from the year when CFs fall off a cliff.
I don't think the team should go without Beltran in 2012 because we are afraid of being saddled with a bad contract in 2014...
if you look at the team’s projected payroll, existing long term contracts, and what is likely to come out of the farm system we can clearly take on a little dead money without any repercussions.
Sign Roy O
It's not like we are weighed down by a $254M contract for the next 10 years
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
not sure it matters much
if its something like 2/28 as opposed to 3/34. i think its more likely to be 3 guaranteed years though
If Berkman doesn't re-sign after 2012, Craig will play 1B in 2013 and Beltran will play RF.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I believe this was just added to the initial Goold piece
Beltran has been a target of the team since Albert Pujols signed with the Los Angeles Angels. The outfielder wanted to make a decision on his next team before Christmas, and it’s possible that his final decision could come as soon as today.
Let's offer him a 10 year personal services contract just for the hell of it
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 22, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
11 years
just to dick on Albert
Bursting into song.
by Aranathor on Dec 22, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Let's give everyone signed from here on out an 11 year personal services contract
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 22, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And include it all in future signing announcements
Breaking news, Cardinals GM big MO has just signed the entire 40 man roster to 11 year post career PSCs “so they don’t cry and leave StL for fear of now being loved”. On side note exclusive “MO tells Rains he can’t stand tears”
Also, holds press conference to announce new team policy
MO announces new team policy: "all future free agent and draft prospects will be offered 11 year PSCs unless they cry. If they cry they will be offered lifetime MLB contracts and lifetime PSCs
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
GUYS WHY HAVEN'T WE INKED BELTRAN YET?!?!?!?!?!?!
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 5:56 PM EST reply actions
someone have to say this every time i ask?!
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
Well, if you would stop "flogging Donner," then Carlos would get the okay
clearly, you’re not paying attention
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 22, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
HEH
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
2B
Will the Cards give Kolten Wong and/or Zack Cox a look in the majors in 2012 or is 2013 a more realistic timeframe?
....my quick smells like french toast...
Twitter: @mstreeter06
Cox might be a September call up. No chance on Wong
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
So they are all in on Cox but not interested in Wong? Sounds counter intuitive
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
never grow up, veb
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 22, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, if he starts at AA I don't see why he couldn't possibly be considered for a callup.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Well Cox is going to start out in AA for shizzles, might get moved up to AAA mid-season and be in line for a call up in September
Wong is either going to be in Springfield all year or he’ll start off in Palm Beach and move to Springfield midseason
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
The Cardinals seem to be one of the only teams that don't promote players from AA
The general consensus is that if you are succeeding in AA for a well regarded prospect, you usually won’t be able to learn much more by going to AAA instead of the majors.
Sometimes it’s good to be conservative with these things but sometimes I think the Cardinals are a little too passive in this regard. Though, we have not had many big prospects in recent years other than Colby, so maybe that policy will change at least a little bit in the next few years.
Merry Christmas!
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 22, 2011 5:59 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
USC 2012 National Champions, you guys
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
barkley is....well, he's just not very smart.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Okay
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
no, you're not blowing me off on this one.
i’m sick of these guys getting glamour for going back to school when it’s quite obvious they would be a top five pick. if i wrote you a $35M check and gave you the option of cashing it tomorrow or having to wait a year but after that year there’s only an 80% chance that $35M check will still be there, what would you do?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
If money were the only thing in the world I cared about, I would take the $35M check
Next question plz
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
what a bullshit reply.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
That is both not a question and quite rude
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
you're
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
what's the point of going back to school?
sure, he’s going to get to compete for a national championship. but is the thrill of a national championship (maybe 5-10% chance of happening) worth the risk of losing tens of millions of dollars (probably about the same odds)?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
The thrill of a national championship + another year of college life + being known as the greatest Trojan QB (possibly greatest Trojan, period)
He doesn’t have the same values as you do but it’s certainly understandable.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I'd already be rolling in a pile of hookers and blow
Bursting into song.
by Aranathor on Dec 22, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
PEOPLE MAKE DIFFERENT DECISIONS THAN I WOULD
THEREFORE THEY SHOULD NOT BE PRAISED FOR DOING SO
but i’d totally take the cash.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
you are starting it again
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
...
creating an opening for more of this
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
it's just the wrong decision. period.
if barkley goes pro and signs a contract, he’ll be set for life. forever. and he’ll likely be able to take care of his family. for life. forever. and that could all go away on just one of the thousands of plays he’ll run next season at USC in practice and during games.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
see
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
so clearly it isn't all about the money for him.
you are a different person in a different position who, if put in barkley’s position, would make a different decision.
i agree it’s pretty dumb to potentially lose all that cold hard cash, but perhaps winning a championship is more important?
also, he could HELP his draft stock with a great season next year, so that could be a factor in his decision, right?
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
He's easily the #1 prospect in the 2013 class as of right now
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
No, that backs up your point
He’s either the #2 or #3 best QB in this class. He’ll definitely be the #1 QB, if not the #1 overall player in next year’s class. That’s a non-insignificant pay bump
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
oh. so ignore my other last sentence.
haha. sorry. having issues today.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
is it?
does anyone have the draft slotting matrix handy? does it exist yet? it’s not how it used to be.
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 22, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
if barkley thinks POSSIBLY winning a championship is worth $35M...
i hold my point that he’s not very smart.
on the subject of his draft stock, it doesn’t get much higher than it already is. he could move up maybe a spot or two.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
You're not very good at accounting
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
he's a top seven pick this year.
IF he has a good year next year and IF he doesn’t get hurt, he’s probably top 1-4 next year, which will obviously result in a gain. but the marginal utility of the extra $10-15M is probably not all that high.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
In addition to that money, you also have to account for the utility he would get out of potential national championship
And the utility he would get out of being known as the best Trojan quarterback of all time and the utility he gets out of being in college for another year
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
know what's larger than all that?
the difference in utility from $35M to $0M.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
you say that like it's an inevitability that he will
suffer career-threatening injury…
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
it's as if not more likely than winning the NC
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
lolwat
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Okay, fang, go do this
Look up the probability that a Top-5 preseason team wins the national championship
Then look at the probability that a quarterback in a D1 school suffers a career-ending injury
K lemme know what you find
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i'm not talking about career ending.
i’m talking about anything that would hurt his draft stock and cause him to lose money on his decision. “anything” includes getting hurt in any capacity that would affect his performance/causing him to miss games, him just not being as good, him getting into trouble, etc. and i think one of those things happening has at least equal chances with him winning the national championship.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Fang has a point here
We see it all the time in MLB (or the EPL), players not being traded in July (or Janurary), they’re stock falls (for whatever reason) by the time the offseason rolls around and the team (or they themselves) earn less as a result. Sometimes its better to play it safe.
Bursting into song.
I have, at no point, disagreed about this in a monetary sense
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
their
but thanks for the support.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
in barkleys case specifically
it seems unlikely this will happen. usc is completely loaded, they have two WR in woods and lee who are future top 10 picks as well. its a pretty fair bet that he will light it up next year
Well then you should clarify your points better, sir
You are saying:
Current contract + Util(NFLPlayer) > Future contract + Util(nc)*P(WinningNC) + Util(col) + Util(GreatestQBinUSCHistory)
Correct?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
yes.
or, to put it more clearly:
EV (going pro) > EV (staying in school)
at least in terms of money. the utility can be argued about forever but only mr. barkley knows that answer.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
n/s
if the utility for him makes up the difference in EMV’s, then good for him. but i strongly disagree with him on that, which is fine.
i apologize, i came on a little strong. what i have is obviously just an opinion, just a very strong one.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough.
you are certainly entitled to your opinion. like i said, if this choice was before me, i’d choose the money. obviously, there’s something else at play here for him.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
fair enough, the problem is that wasn't what you were arguing.
“its the wrong decision no matter how you look at it”
easily my worst comment in the thread.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the fancy word is "externality"
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
econ vocab word!
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
name me a couple notable qb's who have suffered career ending injuries
that were scheduled to be top 10 picks. i can’t think of any off the top of my head
Not injuries per se
But Jake Locker was consensus #1 and he stayed and was drafted later cause he had a shitty year. (That is significant amounts of money that was just given up.)
Brian Brohm was, if i recall correctly, also projected as a #1 overall
and fell to the 2nd round, and is now out of the NFL
RJ Swindle for LOOGY
I have a man-crush on Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 22, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Don't show this thread to Deloitte. Your math is way off.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 22, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
1. wat
2. psh deloitte
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
My friend got hired from KPMG
She flies to either LA or Hawaii every week. Sort of jelly of her, but I don’t think I’d like the actual job part of it
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
she'll burnout.
and that travel plan isn’t typical.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, pretend I said McKinsey or Bain.
I’m sure they send a boatload of recruiters to the Harvard of the Midwest.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 22, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
actually never heard of either.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
wat
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
meh consulting.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
yeah i wiki'd.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
well this is embarrassing.
i should have known who they were. inexcusable.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
the utility he gets out of being in college for another year
Lots and lots and lots of…. you can’t put a price on that
Bursting into song.
He's actually like super religious, Tebow-style
I don’t know that he does that…
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
not necessarily mutually exclusive....
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
No, I know
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
His family is already fairly well off, IIRC
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
he goes to USC. this shouldn't surprise anyone.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yes no football player at USC has ever been poor
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
was kind of jok
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
You seem really concerned about the Barkley family
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 22, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
it's just the wrong decision no matter how you look at it.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
it was a reference to fang's earlier comment.
for some reason i feel meaner today than usual. i think it’s because i was just sick.
basically i was making fun of fang, not you.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
since you are looking at it from a pure economical standpoint
there are other ways to look at it in which its not the wrong decision. also not to mention there is a fairly strong case to be made it could be the better economical decision anyway
such conversation is going on above this.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
i wrote my post in response to your statement that
“its the wrong decision no matter how you look at it” which i disagree with pretty strongly
It's the wrong decision no matter how YOU look at it.
But the point is whether it’s the right decision how HE looks at it
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 22, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
which relates back to my original statement.
he’s not very smart.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
This has nothing to do with intelligence
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
okay.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
dude
you’re descending into Jim Rome levels of self-parody at this point. There is a difference between an opinion and a fact, The End.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
"in my opinion"
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
no matter how you look at it!
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
that was an addendum to that post.
i wrote the word “happy” at the end but that didn’t make it for some reason.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
i'm glad this is done.
so how about ohio state, man?
please don’t actually talk about ohio state
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
fuck ohio state.
/obligatory
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
word is he didn't get all that favorable of an evaluation from nfl people
i mean he likely would have been top 10 but there is no luck or RG3 in next years class. he could go 1 next year.
and with the rookie wage scale the money isn’t the same as it once was.
Wasn't the college thread over there?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
i haven't read most of the earlier thread.
summary? worth reading?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
No idea.
I shift+A’d
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
USC will just have to vacate it in five or six years.
And Barkley will give back his Heisman Trophy, too.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 22, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Why are you the way that you are?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
rekity rec
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
the great r[ock n'] (j)r[oll] swindle!
turns out malcolm mclaren is the secret behind the eephus.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
a bunch of christmas carols to persuade beltran to sign.
but not anything else.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO are there any new Beltran updates?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Cards sign Beltronic yet?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 22, 2011 6:33 PM EST via Android app reply actions
News is we are the fav and the Red Sox are out
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
yes, Mo didn't make the PSC offer obvious enough
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
no, we decided a cody ross and JD drew platoon was better.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I have a friend I knew in college
Who only knows a few baseball players. One of them is Carlos Beltran, because during the 2006 postseason his name came up a few times and she’d march around acting like a robot and saying “BELL-TRON.”
I will be doing this all the time if we sign him.
how do you resize images in SBN to make them smaller?
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
...
remove the " " from both sides
“”link.jpg" height =“200” width=“350”/>"
if it needs resizing.
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Welcome my VEB brother
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
I got if from TC I think
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Beltran
I dont consider this difinitive by any means, but my roommate from college has a friend who works in Lozanos office and he just texted him that we won the Beltran sweepstakes. Take it for what you will but he swears its true.
by stl522 on Dec 22, 2011 6:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions 11 recs
I realize it's pretty far down the line
But he swears by it and says they agreed to terms and will come out shortly.
by stl522 on Dec 22, 2011 6:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i want to believe
But I don’t want to get my heart broke again
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 22, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
this is the most Awesome news all day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
we won the Beltran sweepstakes.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
What time is press release?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
2 yrs 26 million supposedly
by stl522 on Dec 22, 2011 6:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 30 recs
Good job, you!
You’re half right!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
THIS GUY GETS A REC
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
uh....this dude is legit
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
OK, now tell my why the re-upped Skip.
/never satisfied
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 22, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
how about that
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I asked this on twitter, but didn't get that many responses.
Would you trade Jaime to the Nats if we got a similar package?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
ALREADY BEEN THERE, BROSKI
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
why does everyone think the same things i do?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
You're but one part of the VEB hive mind collective consciousness.
You’re “idea” was simply a reverberation from VEB.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
your
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Only if they have someone equivalent to Cox and Wong left to trade
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
he is a known quantity
Post TJ which I actually take as a plus
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 22, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
looking at the package the nationals gave up i said yes.
however, WMT did a equivalent package of cardinal’s players and it didn’t seem like as good a deal.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
read sickels review of the trade
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
oh my god yes.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
Only if we could be guaranteed...
of getting EJack or Oswalt or some other above average starter.
Sign Roy O
ejax is another point all together.
what the hell is going on with him? i know he’s definitely (or at least seemingly) not in the plans, but whose plans is he in?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Teams might still
prefer Jair Jurrjens and Wandy Rodriguez before committing to Edwin. If this lack of interest drags on too much longer he might wind up in the same situation as Kyle Lohse 4 years ago.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 22, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
i'd actually max at the lohse deal for edwin.
in terms of both years and AAV ($12M).
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Not that it matters, but
Lohse’s AAV was $10.25M.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 22, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
i was clarifying that i meant his AAV from 2012
his contract was backloaded.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
John Danks just got 5/65...
with a market of one team. I have to believe someone will pony up 4/40 for Jackson eventually.
Sign Roy O
No.
The heart of our offense consists of Holliday (age 32) and Berkman (age 35). Carpenter is no spring chicken, either, and Yadi is aging. The team has a good chance to compete for a World Series title in 2012 and 2013 with Jaime Garcia. I don’t believe we should hinder our chances by trading Jaime. Besides, we have a contract that buys out his arbitration years and has two very club-friendly club options for his first two potential years of free agency.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think Red suits his comlexion
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Oooo.
Anyone think he gets #15?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 22, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
We should give him No. 5
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
i bet that number will be retired
either Albert will underperform in LA and we do it, since we all get over the FA saga OR he’ll be great in LA, they retire his number and we do too so as not to look bitter.
Bursting into song.
Eh, I guess Furcal and Jay both had it last year.
So he’ll probably get it if he wants it.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 22, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Is anyone rooting for Prince Fielder to get a 10 year $255 million dollar contract?
Obviously not from us, but I think it’d make me smile.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 22, 2011 6:54 PM EST reply actions
I'm just hoping for 5/150
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
I have a feeling the Beltran thing is going to happen soon.
It sounds like the Cardinals and Indians were the last 2 options for him and he rejected a trade to Cleveland last season.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 22, 2011 7:16 PM EST reply actions
i was actually hoping he'd sign before i go out to watch the basketball game...
apparently that’s not going to happen. twitter is very quiet.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
tix to Braggin' Rights?
Good for you.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
unfortunately, no.
just headed up to the local watering hole.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
well that took less that an hour. sweet.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 22, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
okay, so yesterday i asked how on earth beltran made sense in cleveland.
ken rosenthal has an answer of sorts, but it makes no sense.
Beltran could get a far greater number of at-bats at DH once Hafner was gone. But Acta wouldn’t have too much difficulty creating playing time for Beltran next season, even though the Indians’ outfield appears set with Michael Brantley in left, Grady Sizemore in center and Shin-Soo Choo in right.
* * *
For starters – and most important – Beltran would be a significant offensive upgrade over Brantley. Beltran, a switch-hitter, had a 152 OPS-plus last season. Brantley, a left-handed hitter, was at 96, and 100 is defined as the league average.
* * *
The Indians are looking to upgrade at first base, and Brantley could fit into that equation – he has played first in the minors, and could serve in a left-right platoon with Matt LaPorta or some other option
wait, brantley is a crappy hitter, so beltran will replace him, so brantley can . . . play first base part-time? unless you’re talking about the world’s worst ever platoon split (it’s pretty bad, but even against LHP, he has a .314 career wOBA), you usually don’t fix your below-average hitting LF by sticking him at first. mostly, this just shows that the indians have a pair of replacement value guys at first and in LF. toss in travis hafner and whoever you have at 2b, and you probably have about 2 wins coming from 1b, 2b, LF, and DH. i think cleveland has problems beltran won’t fix – and they lack the budget to make up the remainder.
i realize that, beyond the Tigers, the AL Central is wide-open, but i don’t get their interest at all.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
you realize you're talking about the team that gave up a shit ton for ubaldo...
because they thought they were in it/he was actually good, right?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
I don't mind it. It just needs to stay in the A.L. only.
I don’t think it’ll ever be taken away entirely due to it prolonging the careers of some players.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 22, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but it's also an unfair advantage in the open market
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 22, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
are they actually going to play MORE interleague games?
I thought it was just going to be spread out throughout the season.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 22, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Sure makes it tougher for the Cards (and other NL teams)
to compete for certain free agents – i.e. Beltran and he who will not be named. I wish the DH would go away, but I know it won’t. I just fear it will be imposed on the NL.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 22, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
dgoold: #Cardinals and Beltran have agreed upon a two-year deal, according to sources. News posted on http://t.co/y9KPn0sa #stlcards
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
woopity woo woo woozerpants!
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 22, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
complete with REAL block quote.
dgoold Derrick Goold
#Cardinals and Beltran have agreed upon a two-year deal, according to sources. News posted on http://Stltoday.com #stlcards
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 22, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
2005 world series here we come!!!
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
woot!
Holliday, Beltran, Furcal, and Berkman. Weird.
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 22, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 22, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
WOHOOOOO
Let the season begin!
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:47 PM EST reply actions
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 22, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN CARLOS BELTRAN
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
So, that happened.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
aforementioned stltoday.com article
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
WAT
Tim Brown @TBrownYahoo Close
Last possible jam-up on Cards-Beltran deal: Beltran wants full no-trade clause.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
why would that jam things up? the only way we'd be trading him would be if he was hurt.
nobody’s gonna be begging to get the rump end of a 2-year contract on an injured player.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
Sure, I guess
We give them to everyone else
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
1. okay...
2. GIVE IT TO HIM. IT’S TWO FUCKING YEARS
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
That shouldn't really be a hang up at all on 2-year deal a contending team anyway
Not afraid to nitpick
"can beltran be the starting center fielder"
the question that will be debated over and over and over again over the next few months.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:54 PM EST reply actions
"we'll see"
I will argue that until the end of April.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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obviously...
it’s pretty black and white while craig is out, no?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, it's more important to ask if Greene or Chambers will backup at all.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
. . . and only settled when he takes the field.
it’s kind of a stupid argument to have. we have a tiny sample of his fielding skill post-injury, post-surgery. i don’t know if the club had him do a workout to see how he looks, but i think scouting would tell you more about whether he’s CF-ready than stats. and i don’t know that any of us have anything better than a guess about that.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
It's not like lack of information
has stopped us from debating things before.
Makin' toast!
DING
Butterin' toast!
i'm just saying this will merely be a long series of dressed up, "yes, he is," "no, he isn't" comments.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
I understand.
I was just being glib in my giddy, Beltran-response frame of mind.
Makin' toast!
DING
Butterin' toast!
do you doubt that it will be discussed to great length?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
fuck it.
Could Ryan Theriot play SS? No.
Could Lance Berkman play RF? No.
Could Skip Schumaker play 2B? No.
Could Allen Craig 2B,3B, or CF? No, no, and no.
Why stop now?
Trade Westbrook
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 22, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Could Daniel Descalso play SS?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
kind of, actually.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
rec
even though the second one doesn’t really fit with the other three.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
at least he had major league experience.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't say he sucked
he lacked range, but I don’t ever remember really being particularly worried about Berkman in RF once the season started.
Craig in CF, however….
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
he sucked
our expectations were just much worse.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I dunno
it’s not like he was Chris Duncan, watching fly balls drop or kicking them around. He caught pretty much everything he got to and his arm is decent. (I put very little faith in defensive #s, just because it takes so long for them to stabilize, FWIW.)
He wasn’t awesome or anything, but I don’t see why everyone says he just flat out sucked. To me the only real problem w/ Berk in RF is range.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
not sure that we've seen enough of allen craig at third to say yes or no.
and everybody – including mo – knew berk would be a bit of a butcher in RF, but his bat would make it worth it. kind of the same deal with beltran.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
......we hope
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Beltran! Fuck yeah!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 22, 2011 7:57 PM EST via mobile reply actions
who died and made you mod?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Kim Jong Il.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 22, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 22 recs
Aw man I'm sad this is too late in the thread to get green'd
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
rui linked back to it
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 22, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
literal LOL
this is so great.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Good lord do I wish I could rec on mobile right now
When I was a teenager I always masturbate when I wanted to do something, maybe I’ll go do that
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 22, 2011 8:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 6 recs
LOL I LOVE VEB
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
WTF
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 22, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
That's fucking hilarious.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 22, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome.
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
Link
Can you not click on links in the Android app? Doesn’t seem to be working for me.
by KingPenguin on Dec 22, 2011 8:08 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
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