J.C. Romero, Jed Lowrie, and other notes
by DanUpBaby on Dec 15, 2011 9:00 AM EST
Email
PrintI'm going to be on a plane back to Cardinal Nation—actually, while I'm here, can I just say that I hate the whole "nation" trope of sports fandom, and that, yes, I do know the name of my current employer?—the Midwest today, so just a few notes before I continue packing.
J.C. Romero: John Mozeliak has successfully pursued the least interesting LOOGY in the universe. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, because Romero is an effective-enough lefty specialist, just that he's completely uninteresting.
Except for this. I know this is something people used to say about every reliever, but it's more true of Romero than any other one I can imagine: J.C. Romero is a failed pitcher. He does none of the things a pitcher is supposed to do—strike batters out, get the ball in the strike zone, keep it out of the stands—well enough to make a living. Luckily, left-handers are nervous about his breaking ball. I hope he writes Tony La Russa a thank-you note every year.
The relevant 2011 numbers: Lefties hit .231/.318/.231, and righties hit .322/.429/.508.
Nick Punto: For what it's worth, Red Sox fans are, so far as I can tell, furious about giving Nick Punto a Skip Schumaker deal. I'm angriest that the Cardinals didn't have anything better than Astros closer-by-default Mark Melancon with which to tempt the Red Sox' new management into giving up Jed Lowrie, their 28-year-old, injury-prone shortstop-of-the-alternate-future. Begin shaking your first at Jeff Luhnow: Now.
Lowrie's not a sure thing—he's the kind of infielder you can acquire, if you're lucky, for Mark Melancon—but he's a career .252/.324/.408 hitter who's competent at short and second base. He'd have been an upgrade on Daniel Descalso and another body in the rotation for when Rafael Furcal, who's equally injury-prone, is sitting out.
Pipe Dreams: The Cardinals are "a serious entity" in the Carlos Beltran sweepstakes! Which is great! On a two-year deal, with more than $15 million coming out of the rotation in 2013, Berkman returning to free agency, and the Cardinals lacking any impact bats in front of Oscar Taveras, Beltran makes a lot of sense to me, even if he's likely to be expensive on a year-to-year basis.
The Cardinals probably didn't bid on Yu Darvish, but whether they did or didn't my earlier guess that the market had been softened by Daisuke Matsuzaka and might have made an interesting bet in the face of rising domestic free agent costs appears to have been exactly wrong, if the winning bid was in fact "sky-high."
In other Japan news, Hiroyuki Nakajima, who the Yankees appear to have won the rights to on accident, could be sign-and-traded. I actually got to see him play in Saitama last year, and I can confirm that he fulfills all relevant Japanese baseball player stereotypes—small-looking, corkscrew-y swing, excellent at math. He also did a fine job of adjusting to the NPB's recent Dead Ball Era turn, hitting .297 with 16 home runs last year; if the Cardinals were able to acquire him, perhaps for an uninteresting reliever, he could very easily turn out to be a healthier version of Jed Lowrie. (In other other Japan news, Nick Stavinoha looks prepared to sign with the Hiroshima Carp, but seems unresponsive to my suggestion he star in an SB Nation-sponsored reality show about it.)
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all i want for christmas is carlos beltran
Nice write-up by the way. My mind is blown still from losing Punto and gaining romero and skip
Cards fan in Seoul.
Albert Pujols is the hero saint louis deserves, but not the one it can afford right now. So we'll strike him out because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's an A-Rod
by letsgostlcardinals on Dec 15, 2011 9:09 AM EST reply actions
try making a sign
though if stan the man can’t get what he wants for Christmas, I doubt you’ll be able to
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 15, 2011 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
absitively
skipperdoodle and el punto getting the same deal is at least puzzling
it makes me wonder if jmo figures skip to cover any missed innings by craig
ie, not too hopeful on beltran or cuddyer
TLR is gone, long live the king
all I want for Christmas is Carlos Beltran too
and for my Christmas presents to be given to me as well as my bday presents on the 27th
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Charlie Manual is considered a good manager...
kind of odd…
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 15, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
splits? What the hell are splits?
you put a pitcher in the game to pitch. and all pitchers are created equal. amirite?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah
although we don’t know how many of those RHBs were in mop-up innings. If, say, 45 of those PAs were in 11-0 losses, I guess it’s defensible.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
well, he only pitched to 28 batters while his team was ahead
and 75 when the team was behind. And only had 18 high-leverage PA’s all season.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
I all for the "acquire as many MI as possible and see what sticks approach"
Who would a comp for melaconan been? Lynn?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 15, 2011 9:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I;d have been fine with salas
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
"excellent at math"
/wipes coffee off of his computer screen and wall.
Well played sir
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
What i dont get
Why do we bother getting bullpen arms from outside the organization. Doesnt the farm have like, 80,000 cost controlled pitchers at this point, the vast majority of which are meh to slightly above average meh? Isnt that Romero? Ah well.
by JWO on Dec 15, 2011 9:16 AM EST via mobile reply actions
It depends on whether or not you want two lefties.
I don’t really need two lefties but TLR seems to have converted most of MLB to a two-lefty bullpen. We don’t have that much in the way of left-handed pitchers knocking Busch Stadium’s door. On a one-year deal, I suppose the thought is that Romero can get some left-handed batters out at a low price and be a bridge to internal LOOGYs of the future.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Probably Freeman, a lefty they put on the 40-man to protect from the Rule 5 draft.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm not on the Freeman bandwagon (if there is one).
He walks too many, and doesn’t strike enough people out.
But, he’s coming off TJ and was in the Texas league, so I’m willing to keep an open mind for this year.
Maybe Nick Greenwood passes Freeman as a LOOGY candidate this year? My sleeper bullpen lefty is Tyler Lyons, though I think he’ll be delayed just a bit as they’ll try to see if he can stick as a starter.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
All of that is fair, I'd say.
I guess I was approaching it from who is most likely to appear in the bullpen as a lefty next. Since Freeman is on the 40-man, I chose him. I kind of wonder, if we’re signing Romero, why did we ever get rid of Valdes?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I don't know why they ever tried Valdes as a starter last year.
I also don’t know why Valdes didn’t get more of a shot last year as a LOOGY after Miller/Tallet were traded. It’s a mystery – maybe there was some sort of personality conflict or something else, or maybe they just didn’t think he was good enough (which is possible, Valdes wasn’t that good).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
I was very confused about the way Valdes was handled, too.
That they replaced him with Arthur Rhodes is a bit of an indictment of Valdes, it would seem, but so is the fact that he was barely used at all by the Cardinals at the big league level and then cast aside.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
And Rhodes was excellent (for a LOOGY) as recently as 2010.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
From the little bit that I recall
I was thinking that Lyons was a ground ball type pitcher. Is that right? From what I’ve heard Gast has a “live” arm.
I guess the key here is if any of the above mentioned has a good slider.
You can be 60 years old
and if you have a good LH slider someone will put you on the mound.
Of course one of those managers is not longer in baseball!
Lyons has OK ground ball rates (GB% of 43.8% in High A - ML average is 43.2%) - nothing special.
As for Gast, I’m not a fan based on his numbers but I haven’t seen him pitch other than in a very short clip, so can’t say much.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Freeman is really closest by default...
The system doesn’t have much in the way of future LOOGY prospects. Gast is about it.
I think the system has some good LOOGY prospects
but they’re not ready for 2012 – Lyons, Miranda, even Greenwood could be good ones for 2013.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with you that "Cardinal Nation" is a dumb term
especially since VEB is strong evidence that it should be Cardinal Planet.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
Cardinal Galaxy
Biiiiiirds iiiiiiin spaaaaaaaace.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
by Sir Sci on Dec 15, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
AAAAHH!!! After 11,000 years i'm free! Its time to conquer Earth!
Alpha! Pujols’ escaped! Recruit a team of Cardinals… with attitude!
Bursting into song.
by Aranathor on Dec 15, 2011 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I know, it was definitely 10,000 years
Just let it go.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
BTW, does anyone else ever mix up the names of Ned Yost and David Yost?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
I mix up Ned Yost and Ned Flanders
does that count?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 15, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty much.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
space-cardinals
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Cardinals Universe
sign skip, skip nick #illogic SIGN CARLOS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
so you're saying
if we want Lowrie and whoever that other guy in the trade was, we’ll have to swap Lance back to Houston?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
MLB Network radio
they brought up the Jeff Gordon piece again today so I called in to try to straighten them out. Unfortunately I was on hold for 15 minutes before arriving at my destination and had to hang up. I was also going to attempt to offer an explanation for why we aren’t after Fielder. (It isn’t feasible as the upgrade in WAR doesn’t justify the money required)
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Isn't this the second time that they've brought up a Gordon blog post?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
two days in a row
yesterday it was presented as “Jeff Gordon of the Post Dispatch says Pujols owes the city of St. Louis.” Today it was presented as “according to St. Louis, Pujols owes them.” And he was clearly referencing the Gordon piece.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Ugh.
You should email them that Gordon doesn’t even appear in the print version of the Post-Dispatch any longer and that his blog doesn’t speak for St. Louis fans.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
sources (Fritz) say so
Personally I think this explains why the P-D company filed for bankruptcy
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
How will we remember the Gordo era?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Dec 15, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
much like the Corey Patterson era
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Kip Wells, Mike Maroth, Estaban Yan, JC Romero. . .
. . .oh wait, one of them is on the roster now. . . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Strauss was on with them at 8
I couldn’t listen, but hopefully he straightened them out. Did I just put my faith and hopes on Joe Strauss? Gross
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
there's something to the effect that they have to bid in good faith in there, I think
though some people thought oakland was doing just that last year when they bid $20 million on hisashi iwakuma and then low-balled him for a month.
My understanding is the Japanese team posting the player
has the prerogative to pick whichever bid it deems most genuine. It doesn’t have to take the highest bid.
So if it thinks the highest bidding team is a cockblock bid, it can select one it thinks is more likely to sign the player. This rule is in place specifically to prevent the cockblock.
by arch support on Dec 15, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
I don't believe that is correct.
The phrasing is awkard but this seems key:
Nippon Ham, which doesn’t know the identity of the MLB team that won the bidding, has until 4pm CDT on December 20th to accept or reject the high bid.
I believe that is intended to read that they WON’T know the team that won the bidding. Allowing Nippon to pick a lesser bid allows for all kind of sketchy business deals in order for one team to get the rights without having to bid as high.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
This is my understanding as well...
I also read that Selig will be watching the negotiations and has the prerogative to step in and give negotiating rights to the runner-up in the bidding if the winner isn’t negotiating in good faith. Seems like a dumb system.
Sign Roy O
fortunately, we can't blame Bud on this one.
looks like he’s actually trying to do what is best for the situation.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
seems like a needlessly complex and frustrating system
when only a handful of good players have ever really made it over anyway
by jealousblues on Dec 15, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
mmmmmm....Ham....
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm...
my understanding is that the winning team then has exclusive negotiating rights, so after winning the Posting they could just lowball Darvish so that he stays in Japan. I don’t know what happens to the posting bid in this case, and it seems like a fairly risky strategy.
Bursting into song.
I don't think. . .
they pay the posting bid unless they sign the player, though.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, exactly
i was wondering this same thing a while ago, could the Giants or someone bid 300M and then just not negotiate? makes sense that Selig is allowed to step in.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
by tehzachatak on Dec 15, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Wikipedia said it, so it must be fact
It is said that the St. Louis Cardinals are pursuing Beltran and that they have offered him a 2-year $25M contract to him. It is unknown if Beltran will accept or not.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 9:57 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
So, what, they're prisoners maybe?
Spanish prisoners?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Now I can put this
in all of my academic papers.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
by Sir Sci on Dec 15, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Questionable block quote AND Wiki Link...
MUST BE TRUE.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
2-year $25M
Uh oh, we may have disrespected him.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Wainwright had already disrespected him
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
WW didn't disrespect him.
he just flat-out owned his ass.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I recall Wainer in a post NlCS interview say
that he didn’t want to keep talking about the Beltran strikeout because that would be
disrespecting Beltran. I hope that works to our favor in signing Carlos.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
If we can only sign FA who haven't been disrepected by Wainwright
The list would be small.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
We are really close to assembling that boy band we always wanted
JC Romero
Lance Lynn
Skip Schumaker
Tyler Greene
One more dreamy named player and we can begin touring!
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
by nomar34 on Dec 15, 2011 10:01 AM EST reply actions 31 recs
I'm sad that VEB's blog software didn't unilaterally make this comment green before I saw it
by DanUpBaby on Dec 15, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent post
Is Mitchell Boggs the least dreamy name on the roster? Is Tony Cruz the most intimidating?
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 15, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Tony Cruz
IMO, is a much better band name than Mitchell Boggs.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
Yeah thats what I was saying
Mitchell Boggs is the worst boy band name on the team, Tony Cruz is better, but he still sounds like someone who would collapse my cranium with a lead pipe
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 15, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Tony Cruz is the Danny Wahlberg of the group.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
it still cracks me up to think he was in a boy band.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
i owned that cd
Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch. They were all wearing overalls with no shirts on the cover if I remember correctly.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
That would be Mark Wahlberg
his brother Donnie was in NKOTB, which I think is who Tackle is referring.
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
Donnie. Danny.
like it matters.
Although, he is a hell of an actor.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Marky Mark's brother was in New Kids On The Block!
This is Marky Mark
This is Donnie Wahlberg
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
at least you used the subject line
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Everything i do is for the people.
those who LOVE large pictures of child celebrities and those who merely like them.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
SheckieZx: The Great Humanitarian
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. I always thought Marky Mark was in NKOTB. In fact I was convinced.
Shows what I know about early 90s boy bands.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
He was supposed to be, but he got into legal trouble.
I’m only partly ashamed that I know this.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
Legal Trouble:
By the age of 13, Wahlberg had developed an addiction to cocaine and other substances.78 At 15, he harassed a group of black school children on a field trip by throwing rocks and shouting racial epithets.9
When he was 16, Wahlberg approached a middle-aged Vietnamese man on the street and, using a large wooden stick, knocked him unconscious (while calling him “Vietnam fucking shit”). He also attacked another Vietnamese man, leaving him permanently blind in one eye, and attacked a security guard (again using racist language).1011
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
say hello to your mother for me.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 15, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
sounds like a charming fellow
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
we all make mistakes.
from what i know of the guy now, it seems he’s put his demons behind him.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Um, "we" don't all make those kinds of mistakes.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
True, but I hope I'll never be judged for the dumb things I used to say/think/do when I was ages 13-16.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Well, there's dumb as in
thinking Tino Martinez was a smart signing, and dumb as in beating up homeless people on the street. Not sure “dumb” is the proper word in the latter case.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 16, 2011 8:07 AM EST up reply actions
Perhaps not
but my point is that it would unwise to draw conclusions about a 40 yo man based on what he did when he was 13-16.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 16, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take your word for it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
David Freese
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Only works if it's David Freesé
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Is this character Quebecois?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Freese looks like he'd be in a boy band
But he has an unassailably cool name
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 15, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Danny Descalso?
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
aka DannyD
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I first read this as
“We are really close to assembling that boy we always wanted”
And I looked at the list, and thought, hmm, a player who can’t play 2b or the outfield or hit, but is, at the same time, a very good shortstop with a 96 mph right-handed fastball and a moderately (apparently) good left-handed slider, who walks too many batters…Profit!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Maybe we should trade for this guy
Since Carlos Zambrano said he is in “”http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/12/14/2635988/carlos-zambrano-best-shape-of-his-life-cubs" target="new">the best shape of his life"
best (pear) shape of his life?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 15, 2011 9:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I've heard on the radio in Chicago that the cubs bid was not very large.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
never heard it called a "bid" before...
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
by BVHeck on Dec 15, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
only at masquerade parties
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
it actually took me an hour to figure out what you were implying...
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
I'd actually really love to see him turn himself around in STL.
But I’m pretty sure it would take a lot more than just a move south to turn him around.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 15, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
He'd need to go on a world cruise, traveling east to west
taking a slow boat to China.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
I like Gonzalez better than Romero
But he’s probably more expensive, and I guess Zippers already kind of a shutdown lefty. What happened to him being a starter though, I thought they intended on stretching him out?
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 15, 2011 10:08 AM EST reply actions
I never heard that the team actually had firm plans to stretch him out, only that it was a possibility.
If they did stretch him out, I would asume it would be for next year, after Lohse and Westbrook leave and two spots are open in the rotation.
Right now, there’s no spot for him in the rotation and there is a glaring need for LH relief in the bullpen – ergo, he’s in the bullpen.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Lol thanks
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 15, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Ergo, what a great word
although, in my head, I always pronounce it like “air-go”, and I think it’s supposed to be “er-go”. But then, I pronounce “err” like “air”, and my Civ Pro professor always pronounced it like “er”, so I figured maybe I was wrong about “ergo”, too.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Or if you want to establish your Elizabethan creds, "argal"
The Mang did more than Milton could
To make the GOBs look good
Then, lest the feat should lose its lustre
They moved him to another roster
International Scouting and other stuff...
I don’t get the sense that the Cards do much, if any, scouting of Japanese or Cuban players (or other non-Dominican or non-Venezualan players). Seems like we should be players for guys like Nakajima or Cesepedes, or even Darvish, but that we’re completely on the outside.
The other small moves this year are curious. Why draft Komatsu (a younger, pseudo-Japanese OF-only version of Schumaker) as a 5th OF if Skip were going to be signed? It’s almost as if the pick, at an expected net cost of $25,000, was meant to be negotiating leverage against Schumaker (i.e. maybe drafting Komatsu brought down Schumaker’s price by $150k).
Why not draft a potential LOOGY in the Rule 5 draft?
At this point, I think the intent is to have Chambers be the starting CF in Memphis. And Sanchez will be in Memphis pen (along with Reifer, Marte, Ottavino, Freeman, etc.)
As for KMac, the best rationale that I can come up with is that he will be prepared to be a starter in ST (which is his normal practice) and be prepared to be the 6th starter in case of injury to the first 5. Other 6th starter candidates would be Dickson, Cleto, and Miller (after super 2 cutoff).
Hopefully if KMac and Romero suck, they can be jettisoned like the other crappy vets last year.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 10:10 AM EST reply actions
Why not draft a potential LOOGY in the Rule 5 draft?
They did. Barret Browning. He’s like the Raul Valdes of 2012.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Barret Browning looks more like Rich Rundles to me. (i.e., completely uninteresting)
I was thinking someone like Cabral, Fish, T.J. McFarland, etc.
I don’t know, maybe they were looking at Cabral and Fish and it just so happened that they were picked before the Cards’ turn.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
If I had a budget for international signings
None of it would be for Japan. You get so much more for your money in Latin America.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Australia!
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 15, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Harry Nilsson
not so much.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
Personally, I think it's a waste of resources to scout Japan and can you really scout Cuban players all that effectively?
I think the posting system makes scouting Japan a waste of time. They have to play in NPB so why scout them? Plus, virtually none of them are worth the money it would cost to scout and sign them.
At least in the DR and Venezuela, scouting pays off by finding talent.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
What would happen if a young Japanese player decided to move to the U.S
and go to college here to play baseball, in the hope that he would be drafted in the amateur draft? What are the laws that Japan has set up, or the NPB, to prevent this? Couldn’t he try to become an American citizen in order to circumvent this? Or as a threat against being drafted by a Japanese team?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 15, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
International relations might play a factor in the visa/citizenship equation if NPB and Japanese laws and fan sentiment were against possibilities of losing their potential future stars
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 15, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
I had read the potential "sign and trade" of Nakajima
and found myself wondering what it would take – Boggs? K-mac? Greene? 2 of those 3?
The Yankees
don’t seem to have a need for him, what with Gold Glove Jeter and boy wonder Nunez in the pipeline. They seem to have been surprised that they won the bid as well. Maybe we could do a one-for-one with Boggs or K-Mac (he can start, really, I swear!) to help their pen or spot start rotation or whatever it is they need. I would love to see the Cards just offer some spare part (I hear we signed a lefty and the Yankees could use a lefty) just to take him off their hands.
But I’ve also read if he doesn’t get a starting gig, he’d go back to Japan and wait one year til he’s a free agent to sign with the Sawx because Bobby V. speaks Japanese and all that jazz.
by The Gottfather on Dec 15, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
lol
KMac starting in Yankee Stadium = 3.2 HR/9
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 15, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Wasn't aware of Nunez...
Just knew Jeter was/is only getting older. He can play 2B and 3B and even CF though! (haha)
I thought Boggs and K-mac might be enticing though. I know we have Furcal, but I also anticipate him not being healthy all the time… I don’t know. I liked the idea of getting a decent shortstop via the posting system without actually having to pay the posting fee.
I believe the posting fee
was only 2 mil which isn’t that bad. Maybe after the Tsuyoshi Nishioka experience in Minnesota everyone got worried about 5’10", 140 lb SS’s.
And the Yankees love Nunez, as they should. He has a solid glove and can hit/run pretty well. The Braves wanted him I believe in a deal for Jurrjens and the Yanks declined quickly. He plays 3B/SS/2B well and is cost controlled. So maybe an offer like Boggs/minor league guy could get us a cheap SS?
by The Gottfather on Dec 15, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
The real question is (pipe dream disclaimer)
Could we pry Nunez instead without giving up Miller?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 15, 2011 1:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
After the Kei Igawa experience. . .
if I was a Japanese import, I might insist on a sign-and-trade as a condition of signing with the Yanquis.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
I just received an email from the St. Louis Cardinals.
It tells me that it is my last chance to get the 2011 World Champions DVD online. I suppose I need to buy this for $20 today. Who else has purchased it? Is it worth it?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Let them you'll be happy to help bring Carlos Beltran to St. Louis...
otherwise, no thanks.
Sign Roy O
Wait, last chance?
Ever?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Look at the 2nd review
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
what does this even mean?
Even more notable is a second story of a team who accomplished all this with one pitcher, and a bunch of other guys whom thru management and their own efforts would become pitchers.
What's the difference between this and what the Cardinals are peddling?
Just the cover design of the case?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
There's a lot of overlap
The Cardinals one (McDonald’s) seemed to have more about the regular season and the MLB one had more about the World Series, if I remember correctly.
The MLB one has Motte hanging out at Pappy’s, I believe. So there’s that.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
They really do love Pappy's
I have seen Franklin there and when I met Wainwright he was wearing a Pappy’s hat. They should turn Pujols 5 into Waino’s BBQ
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yes this is the one I own and it is awesome, it bought just about perfect
But the Motte hanging at Pappy’s, as much as I love Pappy’s and know that it’s a bug hang out for our players, seemed like an odd and possibly out of place filler
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 15, 2011 1:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
damn i guess i should buy it too
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Lowrie
Tough to see Lowrie heading to an address just down the street, when he fits a position of need so nicely right here at home. Reminds me a bit of seeing Ben Zobrist back in under-the-radar limbo with the Rays, when he was considered an old-but-serviceable prospect with a little upside and no place to play.
I think Lowrie is one of those players who have a reasonable chance of a much better offensive output going forward than they have shown so far. Since hitting the majors, he’s mostly bumped along only in fits and starts, usually held down by some combination of injuries and depth chart limbo. Both of those have more impacts on some players than others, and I wonder if they’ve just kept Lowrie from ever finding a groove. When he’s been healthy and playing, he has had stretches of excellence – of course, the question is, which is his true ability level, the .710 OPS guy or the .825 OPS guy? Based on his minor league profile, I still suspect it’s the latter.
I suppose Houston will find out, barring injury. I wish it were us throwing the dice though.
Ignoring age, I think Lowrie and Furcal are similar in that
they will be nice acquisitions if they are healthy.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Question: Average and Slugging
It has been widely documented that batting average is not a good indicator or predictor of performance because there are too many variables which are outside the control of the hitter (errors, abs, etc.) However, slugging is a much more regarded stat but has pretty much all of the same flaws as batting average. The numerator changes from being a choice of hit or no hit in batting average to the total number of bases in slugging meaning they both have the same flaws. The denominator is exactly the same in both cases.
The only thing that I can think of is that HRs usually are a true outcome and weighted most heavily in slugging which could dampen the effects of the bad variables. However, the denominator is still badly flawed and not changed at all.
Does anyone have good reasoning why this is so? I am over estimating the importance of SLG in advanced metric thinking? Just thinking about this on my way into work and thought I would ask. Thanks.
Winner of the prestigious 2011 MVL as presented by Alxfritz.
"You didn't win LOY, but you did win MVL, which is a prestigious award I just made up. And that’s something RiverRat can never take from you." - Alxfritz
slugging is a better indication of overall performance because it weights for extra base hits, like you mentioned
that fixes one of batting average’s major flaws- that a home run and a single count for the same thing.
slugging, or more precisely, a compound stat like wOBA, is a pretty good indicator of overall PERFORMANCE, i think. saber folks don’t typically use something like slugging alone to make a judgement. in terms of the factors you mentioned- they are more related to “what should have happened”, or true talent level, if i am reading you right, which is a much more nebulous concept and harder to statistically quantify.
slugging is a result stat, and it is completely accurate, just as batting average is. slugging asks- what is the average number of bases a hitter receives per at-bat? and looking at the slugging percentage answers this question, just as looking at batting average answers what the average number of hits a batter receives per at bat is.
does this make sense? am i answering your question?
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 15, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
yes, thanks for your reply
It is basically what I thought. Slugging has some good components to it but it is still flawed so don’t rely exclusively on it. wOBA takes care of many of the flaws in slugging and is probably a better indicator of true talent or predictive talent.
I assume stats like OPS are helpful even though they have some flaws in them because it is easy to calculate and more approachable to the common baseball fan since they use two more traditional stats that people understand. Is this correct?
Winner of the prestigious 2011 MVL as presented by Alxfritz.
"You didn't win LOY, but you did win MVL, which is a prestigious award I just made up. And that’s something RiverRat can never take from you." - Alxfritz
i mean, i suppose- it all depends
a stat seems to me to have three components to its usefulness- 1. its reflection of something that actually happens (BA, SLG, HR/FB, etc) 2. its ease of understanding 3. how close it comes to telling you what it is you want to know.
perhaps OPS is helpful in that sense- i actually personally do not find it particularly easy to understand, as it doesn’t directly measure something, isn’t scaled to a traditional scale, and doesn’t appear to be that powerful in terms of reflecting what i want to know, but it is easy to calculate. if it makes sense to you as a quick and dirty measure, there’s nothing wrong with using it. at this point, i really only ever look at wOBA, wRC+, wOBA*, wOBAr, etc.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 15, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Another thing to remember is that SLG is tied to BA. If a player has a higher BA, he'll have a higher SLG.
I’d say that the following is generally true: wOBA > OPS > OBP > SLG > BA > Tebow. The caveat is that, to use any of BA, OBP or SLG is to use them all for proper context. To use OPS is to use OBP and SLG since OPS undervalues walks. wOBA is the best.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This is something to remember. Like BA, SLG is reliant on BABIP
People who have low BABIPs often see their SLG depressed because a lot of those hits that are not dropping in could have been doubles or triples.
This is often something people seem to gloss over or ignore when looking at possibly luck-driven performances, good or bad.
Agreed, except that
OBP > OPS, IMHO.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think OPS gives you a fuller picture of the player's offensive profile than just OBP.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Bigger, maybe. . .
but not fuller. But then I am an OBP-phile. It is much more important to avoid making an out than how you avoid making an out.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
OPS correlates to runs a lot better than just OBP
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Better, sure. . .
a lot better? I dunno about that. And if so, it is because most players fit into similar OBP : SLG modes.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
...
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ops-for-the-masses/
OPS definitely gives you a more complete picture than OBP.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Flagged
for Skip Bayless
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
I think your concerns are addressed by wOBA.
That’s what I use almost exclusively. I include other stats in my posts to give some context for folks who aren’t familiar with wOBA or maybe aren’t comfortable with it, but I think wOBA is the best metric for offense out there today. Here is a primer on wOBA.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
thank you
i have been aware of wOBA for a while and how it is normalized to the league but this is helpful.
Winner of the prestigious 2011 MVL as presented by Alxfritz.
"You didn't win LOY, but you did win MVL, which is a prestigious award I just made up. And that’s something RiverRat can never take from you." - Alxfritz
While average is generally considered terrible, I don't know of anyone who uses SLG alone as an evaluation of a player's hitting ability.
A lot of the problem with batting average isn’t just its crappy evaluation of talent, but also its popularity. I would say wOBA and wRC+ are the best evaluators of talent, and SLG alone is about as popular as those stats. Batting average continues to dwarf them all, to the point that people don’t know how to compare different players using SLG or OPS. Everyone knows a .300 BA is good and a .200 BA sucks. No one can tell you off the top of their head even what their favorite player’s SLG is, let alone how it relates to other players on his team or league.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
It drives me nuts that the Post-Dispatch articles still always provide a player's BA but rarely provide his OBP or SLG.
Hummel and Strauss are the worst about this. Goold is better. Not that this is surprising.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The minimum, for me, is OPS,
because it is comparable between players of different positions, and it is pretty easy to say .600 terrible .700 meh .800 good .900 great 1.000 awesome
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I agree.
It isn’t perfect but it has gained a toehold in the mainstread and is easily cited. I wish more articles would.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
hell, some broadcasts list OPS with AVG, RBI, and HR now.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
The reason average is bad is that it assumes all hits have the same value
IE, it values Skip Schumaker as highly as Lance Berkman. Slugging improves on by weighing each hit differently, but it’s still flawed. It doesn’t include walks and the weightings don’t have anything to do with runs (they are just bases). OBP – SLG takes care of the walks and actually f
fixes the weighting a little bit, but it still is kind of arbitrary.
What wOBA does is convert each event (1B, BB, HR) into expected runs (on average). Then it divides by plate appearances and scales to the league average OBP. OPS is almost as accurate as wOBA despite its flaws, which is why a lot of people still use it.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
I read the Fangraphs wOBA description
Can you explain why intentional walks aren’t included?
These are the aspects of hitting that wOBA accounts for: non-intentional walks, hit-by-pitches, singles, reached on error, doubles, triples, and homeruns.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
the hitter shouldn't get positive credit for something he had literally no control over.
ie he shouldn’t get any positive statistical benefit from standing there and taking four balls 10 feet off the plate.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Can't you make that argument for any result
That isn’t one of the the “three true outcomes”?
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
that the hitter has no control over it?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Don’t the others depend on the fielders and the park?
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
you'll have to have someone like VEP and rui explain the full formula of wOBA to you.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
The Three True Outcomes depends on the pitchers though
No single outcome is 100% in the hitters control. Some stats are more in the hitters control than others.
IBB are actually one of the few stats thats not in the hitters control at all. However, it is correlated highly with hitting talent.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
here's the formula for wOBA:
(0.72xNIBB + 0.75xHBP + 0.90x1B + 0.92xRBOE + 1.24x2B + 1.56x3B + 1.95xHR) / PA
here’s the article explaining why the numbers are what they are.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 15, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks.
Furthermore, by recasting the number onto the OBP scale, it makes it much easier for the reader to get a grasp on the number.
Yes. Yes it does.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
They are certainly influenced by fielders and park
But the ball being hit into the field of play still requires a hitter skill
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Understood.
It seems like IBB would be influenced by hitter’s skill as well, but I understand that it’s a decision made by the opposing team and the hitter can’t do anything about it once it’s been decided. Thanks.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
IBBs are influenced by hitter skill
but in a different way than other stats.
IBBs are going to be heavily correlated with hitter talent, but they aren’t a direct result of good hitting.
Incedentally IBB’s are the one stat with almost no luck involved in it.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
I suspect that spot in batting order also correlates with IBB. . .
at least in the NL. Number 8 hitters get IBB’s more than other spots in the lineup, all else being equal, which, of course, it’s not.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, that's definitely also a big factor
no matter how good a player is, they aren’t going to be IBBed in front of Pujols either.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
It's not a reflection of a hitter's skill
It’s a reflection on other teams’ perception of a hitter’s skill
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
or of the skill of the hitter following the current hitter.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Absolutely
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I would ask the same question about. . .
RoE.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
The batter can hit the ball hard at somebody or run fast to force the defense to hurry a throw.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
but mostly RoE are the fielder just screwing up
there’s way too much noise.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
And the same is true about HBP
Arguably there are some (admittedly, probably very few) batters who have a HBP “skill” (Ron Hunt, Don Baylor, and Craig Biggio are the three who immediately leap to mind), but even then the effect is so small that it can’t be worth much. Mostly, HBPs have nothing to do with the batter.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I am prepared to get blasted...
Now that Luhnow is with the Astros, what do you think about Carlos Lee? Next season will be his walk year, he hit almost 100 RBI and he is expensive. I would think we could get him for minimal talent if we take on most of his salary. With Pujols gone, we have some money to spend… I don’t know, I’m trying to be creative with a trade scenario for a Beltran like player.
Ready..Steady…Blast Away!
Am I the only one who would be extremely leery about trading people from our system to Lunhow?
Lunhow probably knows our system better than anyone.
Well
my thought is they are moving to the AL West after next year. He is owed 19mil next year (Holy Shit that is a lot) and affording to B-Ref he put up 4 WAR. So I think as a 1 year take on his salary and trade Houston a C-prospect or PTBNL, yes it is a lot of money, but we don’t have to give up much talent. They get him off the books, we get a pretty good player for a year…It seems like a win win.
I think he is most useful to an AL team with PAs available at 1B and DH.
But, at the price, why wouldn’t they just sign Carlos Pena instead?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, I'd recommend that
Moz use the phrase “platoon partner with Craig” when talking to Beltran or his agent. *Click bzzzzzzzz"
Hello …hello?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 15, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Everytime time this comes up
I am compelled to say there is no reason to platoon Craig.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Dec 15, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
A very good point.
There isn’t a reason to platoon Craig or Beltran, really. But, if you are trying to get Jay PAs, then against RHPs is the time to do it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
problem with that 4.6 WAR b-ref number is that
2.1 of it is comprised of his defensive value. That 2.1 dWAR is 2nd in the MLB last season, behind only Brett Gardner. Now maybe Lee had a good season with the glove, but to consider him the 2nd most valuable fielder in all of baseball is a little crazy. I think there is something fishy going on there – certainly doesn’t pass the eye test.
FWIW, Fangraphs has him at 3.2 WAR last season, and -1.0 WAR the year before.
Pretend we
have this last years lineup today. All I’m doing is keeping Berkman in right and Pujols is now Lee. Skip can alleviate Jay, Berkman, and Holliday, when needed. Craig is still the power bench bat, Berks defensive replacement. IDK i’m not a GM but I honestly believe that Beltran is not a Cardinal because he doesn’t want to platoon and we don’t want to give him a multi-year contract. So I was looking at walk year guys that were expensive (so we wouldn’t have to offer premium talent) and Lee made some sense to me. I offered it up for discussion. I think it’s a good one BTW.
I think Beltran hasn't signed with any club because he was waiting for his market to establish itself.
Now that Willingham and Cuddyer have signed, I think that Beltran ought to be next.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Don't think
I wouldn’t take Beltran, but suppose he signs elsewhere I’m looking at other options. That’s really the basis of this entire discussion.
I'd rather have a player that can play CF like Ross or Crisp than Lee.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'd also rather just give up money to pay Beltran and keep Berkman at first base
than money and prospects to obtain Lee.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
No I'm with you
I am following this Beltran saga and if he signs somewhere else, the FA market is pretty thin and trades become possible. So who do you trade? IMO I would rather fork over money and lesser prospects for a 1 year stopgap than trade Shelby Miller or whoever.
You aren't going to give up Miller for any player who isn't a superstar.
There may be expensive trade options out there. Again, I’d rather sign Cody Ross or Coco Crisp than give up prospects, if that is possible. At this point, we are either going to go big for a Beltran type who will start once Craig returns or go small for a Crisp type that will become the fourth OFer once Craig returns. I’d like to explore the lower cost free agents first. If the Cards fail to sign one of them, then maybe we make a trade for a fourth outfielder who can play some center.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Gotcha
That makes sense. Its too bad Craig is hurt. So I think everyone is under the assumption that Beltran would replace Jay, which is fair but if we miss out on Beltran we already have a 4OF…Schumaker…HA!!
I kinda like the idea of Beltran being a right handed complement to Jay
And a left handed complement to Craig
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Beltran as a left handed complement to Craig
That’s a left handed compliment.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
For reference Cot's contracts 2013 Potential FA's
Outfielders
Michael Bourn
Marlon Byrd
Melky Cabrera
Matt Diaz
Andre Ethier
Curtis Granderson *
Josh Hamilton
Torii Hunter
Matt Kemp
Carlos Lee
Angel Pagan
Carlos Quentin
Aaron Rowand
Luke Scott
Ryan Spilborghs
Ichiro Suzuki
B.J. Upton
Shane Victorino
Reggie Willits
Delmon Young
Didn't Kemp resign?
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
kind of a shitty list
how old is victorino?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
older than you think.
he’ll be going into his age 32 season in 2013. his skills in center field are sure to decline.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
yea
its a shitty list
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
dude can still hit though.
5.5 WAR with the bat in just 132 games last year.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
right, but he plays in a bandbox
and he’s gonna want, what….a 5 year, $70M+ deal?
will his defense hold up long enough or will be be a 2 WAR player in 2 years who is getting paid like a 3-4 WAR
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
yeah, absolutely no on 5/70.
i’d give him 3/50 or something like that though.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
unfortunately
no way he accepts that
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
i hate that players want more years instead of higher AAV
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
i get it
but yea i agree
FA sucks
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
False.
I want a Granderson.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 15, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
he and victorino are the only players on that list i have any interest in
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
and both carry big ?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
what about Josh Hamilton?
No interest?
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
by timmycardinals on Dec 15, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
ummmm
i missed both of those names
list now not as shitty
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Pretty sure Bourn has an option.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
This concern is probably overblown.
Luhnow had to make a lot of final decisions but there were numerous people (scouts and stat types) providing input. Luhnow served as a useful metaphor for the Amateur Player department writ large.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
by azruavatar on Dec 15, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why would we want to acquire Lee now that Luhnow is the GM?
I don’t understand. He won’t be giving us a sweetheart deal or anything in his first few months as GM. He just made a solid trade with the Red Sox. Luhnow isn’t going to trade Lee unless he can get decent salary relief or decent prospects, I suspect. I’d rather we give him neither for Lee. He is expensive and can only play LF or 1B (really, only 1B). We have Holliday, Craig, and Berkman to cover those positions. I’m okay with those three.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
My thought
as posted above was since they are moving leagues after next year and it is his walk year. I hear Beltran can’t really play centerfield anymore so Your talking about right field anyway. Sign Carlos and now Berk can play right (or Holliday for that matter) Lee can play left or 1B. I think it makes us more flexible. Again it is only for a year of big salary so it’s not like we are taking on Vernon Wells contract or anything.
Beltran can play center,
he just isn’t awesome there. Carlos Lee is the Beltran of LF. That inherently makes him $5M less valuble but he is being paid $4M more. For this move to be even lateral to the Beltran one, Lunhow has to eat $9M and not get any prospects back. That seems unlikely.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
i mean, jay could come in as a late inning defensive replacement.
i feel better with beltran in center if craig is in right, rather than berkman. i guess neither is ideal…
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I'm just gonna put this towel-worthy lineup here....
1. Furcal
2. Beltran
3. Holliday
4. Berkman
5. Craig
6. Freese
7. Molina
8. Greene
9. Wainwright
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 12 recs
i'm just gonna rec it.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
oh god yes.
more amazing: that lineup is actually probably average or better at defense at 6/8 positions.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Who're the bad ones?
Beltran obviously, and, Berkman?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Berkman's probs average at 1B
I think Beltran’s the only one
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i don't know who i was thinking would be bad.
freese, craig, and berkman are all likely right around average. i guess i would expect one of them to be worse.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
minor changes
1. Furcal ss
2. Beltran cf
3. Holliday lf
4. Berkman 1b
5. Craig rf
6. Freese 3b
7. Molina c
8. Wainwright p
9. Descalso/Nakajima 2b
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 15, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
If Furc matches his
career .348 OBP I’ll go along with that. But I’m betting he won’t, and I’m putting Beltran at leadoff. And don’t tell me he has too much power for leadoff, it’s time to think outside that box.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 15, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Put your best hitters at 2 and 4, then at 3
I like Beltran, Berk and Hollidome in those spots.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
For once in my freakin' life
I want a leadoff man with an OB above .370 (or even .400—be still my heart). Please allow me my fantasy, man!
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 15, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
go for Beltran in center or:
1. Furcal 6
2. Beltran 9
3. Holliday 7
4. Berkman 3
5. Craig 4
6. Freese 5
7. Molina 2
8. Greene 8
9. Wainwright 1
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Towel
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
actually nevermind, i meant to towel williemghees.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, i think beltran can play center better than craig can play 2b
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
if we're starting beltran in center...
then jay should NEVER play against a lefty and should split time 30/70 with craig against righties.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
why should jay split time with craig at all?
unless craig needs days off
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
jay would fill the craig role from last year.
essentially good enough to start on a lot of teams but our fourth outfielder. he’d spell craig (again, never against lefties) and beltran (also never against lefties) and be the first PH off the bench on his way to 400 or so PA’s for the year.
again, this is assuming we sign and install beltran in center. both of which i’m not sure i buy right now.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
It would also make Schumaker completely useless.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
schumaker would be the true 25th man in this case.
there’d be five outfielders and three middle infielders ahead of him.
12-man pitching staff
molina
berkman
greene
freese
furcal
holliday
beltran
craig
cruz/anderson
jay
chambers
schumaker
descalso
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
This is a totally idiotic roster...
If Matheny carries Jay, Chambers, and Skip on his roster simultaneously he should be canned. The bench is entirely left handed save for Cruz.
Sign Roy O
do you doubt this is what's going to happen though?
chambers might not make it, but you know those other 24 are.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
that rule 5 guy will probably occupy some space for a while
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
He makes zilch sense too...
If we sign Beltran, he and Chambers are toast. If we don’t sign anyone, they’ll compete for a roster spot.
Sign Roy O
If Beltran is signed I guarantee Chambers will not be on the roster...
what would be the point? He’d be the fourth CFer and fourth or fifth bench lefty. At that point they’d get a right handed corner OF bat or another third baseman.
Sign Roy O
okay, i can buy this.
still doesn’t change my point that there will be four middle infielders and 4-5 outfielders ahead of schumaker.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Don't we have this conversation...
every single time the Cards sign a bad player? It happens with Miles (repeatedly), Feliz, Suppan, McDougal, and all the rest of them. And then lo and behold there they are with the game on the line.
Sign Roy O
yeah...
because our genius manager starts his best players at their best positions.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
like theriot leading off of a world series game 7?
has there ever been a team where all players were above average?
Grit != flat out sucking.
against a lefty playing his best position.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
oh god don't talk about the shit we sent up there in 2010.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
I assume Mo is going to set the roster here
I mean, he’s stated he is sets the roster in the past. And now that TLR is gone and he has put his own people into the management positions on the major league club.
If Jay, Chambers, and Skip are all on the roster, it’s Mo’s bad and not the rookie head coach.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Jay, Chambers, and Skip were all on the WS roster. Just sayin'
But I agree that if we sign Beltran, the calculus probably changes.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
All acknowledge your point
Because in spirit you are right. However, my point was more that any kind of roster construction at this point needs to be credited to Mo and not Matheny.
But Jay, Chambers, and Skip were not all on the WS roster.
Grit != flat out sucking.
For Game 7 they were
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Outfielder heavy infielder light ?
If Skip is only an emergency second baseman then I think Chambers doesn’t make the 25 man and we add another infielder. Complicated if Craig can’t go by Opening Day and we need a backup first baseman. There doesn’t seem to be ANY way Komatsu makes teh squad absent injuries. The Komatsu draft is befuddling in the wake of the Schumaker signing (unless it was leverage to bring Skip’s contract down)
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
there's four MI's on that team, with two capable of back freese up at third.
i don’t think that roster is infielder light. i’d much rather have a fifth outfielder than a fifth middle infielder.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
But you have five outfielders
with Lego, Beltran, Craig, Jay, and Skip. Chambers would be 6.
And they only way you get to 4 MIF is if you count Skip
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
i was counting skip, yes.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Don't count Skip as a MI
So far they have made it pretty plain he is going to be used as an OF utility player
Exactly
So I think the Cards are in the market for another infielder. Chone Figgins used to be a good player. If the Mariners were willing to eat the majority of the 18M owed to him over the next two years (say 14-15M) it would be worthwhile to see if he could recapture his skills. Switch hitter, good base stealer, can also play in the outfield. Dude had 6.6 bWAR in 2009. Maybe all the Mariners would want would be a righty reliever.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
That's how rosters should be made
outside of 15-inning games, how often do you really need 4 middle infielders? Furc and Greene can play SS, Greene, Descalso and Skip can play 2B. Even Descalso can play an inning or two at SS in a pinch. We shouldn’t hedge against the massively unlikely event that injuries/switches/extra innings means we need a FIFTH guy who can play an IF role, and just add the best possible hitter as the 25th man on the roster.
That guy should ideally be right-handed, unfortunately, because the two best options are probably Matt Carpenter and Hamilton. Honestly, I’d probably go with M Carp and try to get him at least 1 start a week to spell Freese.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
but we signed schumaker instead.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
With TLR in place
no number of IF was “enough.” I always thought TLR was a liability when it came to extra innings because of his willingness to deplete the bench during the first 9.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 15, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Lee's value is built around his ability to hit left handed hitting
He would be a solid platoon partner if it wasn’t for Allen Craig.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
We're going after Beltran because he is a 4.0-WAR player
and Craig may be out longer than only the first month of the season. I also think the club is understandably hedging its bet on Jon jay’s ability to hit like he has. If signed by the Cardinals, I’d guess that Beltran will likely see playing time in CF and RF.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Lee last year was a 4 WAR player
And really all the talk has been centered around if Beltran can play CF. If not then, Lee and Beltran IMO are interchangeable. The thing about Lee over Beltran (I am assuming that Beltran cannot play CF in this scenario.) Is it would only be for one year, we wouldn’t have to give up talent if we take on most of his salary, . All I’m really doing is filling Pujols spot in with Lee. I think the idea that Beltran would be the 4OF and platoon with Craig is why Beltran isn’t on our team right now.
Lee was a "4 WAR player"
but he projects to be worth 1.4 WAR. Beltran projects for 2 WAR higher and is more positionally flexible.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
if we are looking for a stop gap for craig, beyond skipperdoodle
why not give a look at spillborogh?he sucked last year, but the 2 previous seasons he was pretty good in limited at bats. minor league deal with invite? there was some talk about hermida under similar circumstances, but i think spilly is at least as good a bet.
besides the hermidador should be in colorado
TLR is gone, long live the king
I want Beltran because (IMO) he can be our starting CF, once Craig is back from injury (Beltran can be our starting RF until Craig gets back)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
He'd be a CF on a team with a serious groundball pitching philosophy.
I doubt he’ll get exposed very badly.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I don't even care if he can play it "well."
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Beltran can hit very well.
Berkman could not play RF well but was a significant value in 2011 because of his bat. Beltran could be a significant value in CF because of his bat as Berkman was.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I like Jay fine, but I think Beltran, even now, is better (clearly Beltran was a much better player when younger).
It’s the same rationale as the Berkman signing last year (someone can check the annals and prove me wrong, but I think I was the first person around here advocating signing him to play OF last year).
Beltran is a border-line HOF talent – these are the guys (IMO) that you take a gamble on. Yes, he’s probably going to be a -5 to -10 CF – but I think his offense more than makes up for it.
And with chaining, it allows Jon Jay to get a ton of PAs at all three OF spots, and to work as a defensive replacement.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I will confirm you were among the first people advocating for Berkman.
Didn’t we talk about him during the Matt Holliday trade?
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Probably. I've always liked Berkman. He played with some of my friends on Rice's baseball team
and living in Houston, I watch a lot of Astros baseball and have always liked him as a player (he was my favorite non-Cardinal player for a long time, so it wasn’t hard for me to advocate for him).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Me too
it made me very happy when we acquired Berkman and Holliday because they’d both been among my favourite non-Cardinal players over the years.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Same
That’s why I want Beltran also.
Beltran + Furcal + Berkman. How awesome is that?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i imagine his offense will make up for it
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
you'd have to really convince me to want to pay that salary...
much less give anything up for the privilege to pay that salary.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
i honestly don't know how long his contract has left on it...
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
and guess who currently has a shit ton of cash to spend next offseason?!
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
The Cardinals!
That was sort of my argument for Lee. One year stopgap if Beltran commands more than 1 year. I’m not advocating here I’m simply looking at other options if Beltran doesn’t happen.
fair enough.
if it’s weird if i don’t want beltran to sign for two years (pipe dream, i know) because i want the cardinals to have even more to spend?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Could we start calling him Bill DeWittase?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Is this a joke?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
i doubt it is
lets not be condescending
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
dude, carlos lee
we made fun of him for like 4 years.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
dude can still hit little...
we could probably get him and cash as compensation for Luhnow.
Sign Roy O
i agree its probably not a great fit
but in light of recent VEBapocolypse, maybe avoid the condescending tone and just explain why you disagree
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Yeah it's a joke
I spent some of my free time trying to figure out how to be called a joke. Maybe I’ll start trying to be a comedic writer instead. I’m glad this is a forum where people can post things and not be mocked.
If you have anything to add to the discussion feel free and I’d be happy to discuss it with you. But that simple little sentence does nothing but make you look like an asshole.
shit
this is what i was attempting to stop before it started….didnt work
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
quick, rip something out of a patient's chart and post it here for hilarity
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
This type of crap
pisses me off to no end. I can go through a litany of different trade scenarios that were stupid. You wonder why there is the element of fear with new people that say they are hesitant to post. I’m happy to get in a heated debate about why it is stupid, but to just throw out this bullshit at my expense and not add anything to the discussion makes me not even want to bring it up. So congratulations, your clique is doing just fine.
by OKCardsfan on Dec 15, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
relax, this has nothing to do with cliques
but rather people suggesting we get Carlos lee. i actually thought it was a joke considering Lee has been the most ripped on player this side of Miles.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
if this was directed at me, you misunderstand my meaning
if not, carry on
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Fine
Lee will be 36 next year and has had a .334 wOBA over the past 3 years, .339 last year. After aging and regression he projects to be like a .330 wOBA hitter. That’s about +5 runs over 600 PA. He’s also a miserable defender, despite the fact that he somehow had a high UZR last year. Over the past 3 seasons he has a -9.2 UZR/150, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he was worse than that. So he’s a -10 defender per 150 games (roughly 600 PA). He is also one of the worst baserunners in the league, with -6 runs per 600 PA over the past 3 years.
So offense: +5, defense: -10, positional adjustment: – 7.5, baserunning -6. He projects to be about 18 runs below average over a full season going forward – a couple of runs above replacement level. He’s a worthless player, literally, and would certainly cost more than nothing in a trade. It makes no sense, Skip Schumaker or Adron Chambers would be better.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
this is a lot of assuming.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
like where?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
it's just VERY conservative, which i understand.
but saying something like:
Skip Schumaker or Adron Chambers would be better.
is a pretty strong statement considering both of those guys are going to be at or near replacement level.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see where it is conservative
And I could do the same analysis with Skip and come up with a better projection.
Skip’s been .314 wOBA the past 3 years, so lets bump him down to .310 going forward. That’s -5 runs. His baserunning is average and his defense is probably -5 in the corner outfield. So yeah, in total he projects about as good as Lee.
Chambers, I think would be better because his defense would likely be +10 in a corner spot.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
you assume...
1. chambers being a full win better on defense
2. skip would be playing corner outfielder the whole time
3. lee would have a two win difference in UZR next year in a position he might not even play full time
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Uh
1) Yeah, I said I assumed this. I’m also assuming that Carlos Silva will be fat tomorrow. I don’t know, but I think Chambers is reasonably likely to be +10 in the corners.
2) Yeah, I said “Skip would be better in the OF than Lee”. I’m not assuming anything.
3) If Lee plays LF, all evidence says he’ll be a -10 run defender.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Thank You
To reiterate my position in this discussion.
According to B-Ref Lee was worth 4 WAR, Beltran about the same.
I am assuming that Beltran would not be a Cardinal
Was looking for someone in their walk year that was expensive, on a shitty team, that said team would look to off-load the contract.
This in turn I thought would cost C-Level Prospects.
It would be for one year.
I was swapping Lee for Pujols and leaving the outfield like this past year.
So it wasn’t a joke, it was me trying to find half the worth of Pujols and not costing us prospects in a trade. That’s it.
Ok
I’m saying that shouldn’t just look at his WAR last year because that was completely on the basis of an incredibly fluky defensive season. Lee has always been one of the worst defender in baseball, by both stats and the eye test, and he’s 36 now. There’s no way he’s better than -10 going forward. And BBref had him at like +25, which is ridiculous and I think has to be due to some sort of calculation error. His offense was about as good as usual last year, a bit above average. I agree that he would only cost a C level prospect and a bit of salary, but that’s a lot more than he was worth.
I’m sorry for asking if it was a joke.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
You guys are talking past each other a little -
OKCardsfan is talking about having Lee play 1B, leaving Berk in RF, and having Craig play the role he was going to when Albert was expected to sign.
At that point, Lee’s fluky defensive year in LF is pretty irrelevant.
Lee is actually pretty good defensively at 1B. His UZR numbers bear that out (in a SS). Moreover, to my eye (and I watch a lot of Stros games, unfortunately), he looks fine. Indeed, Lee grew up as an infielder and only started playing OF when he got the majors. He’s really a pretty natural infielder and has good hands.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
That
about sums me up. I didn’t know about his 1B prowess. I also know the guy had 5 less RBI than Pujols last season so there is that.
Ryan Howard had 17 more RBIs than Albert last year
Yet I think it’s pretty safe to say that Albert was a much more valuable hitter.
RBIs are one of the more context dependent stats out there – they rely heavily on where the hitter bats in the order and the abilities of his teammates to get on base (and other important factors like which park the hitter plays in). RBI totals add little to answering the question: “All else equal, is player X better than player Y?”
Pujols also missed a bunch of chances to get RBIs last year
Evidenced by his number of crippling DPs.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Dec 15, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Lets assume we did what I was proposing
Then after a year there is a pretty fascinating 1Bman out there that intrigues me.
Mike Napoli unless I missed something.
Just sayin. It is what it is.
I think Lee's likely to be fine at 1B
But then Berkman is going to be as bad as Lee in right. Either way, you’re sacrificing a ton of defense.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, but we know Berkman isn't replacement level in RF - let's say he puts up a 3.5-4 WAR.
Lee isn’t replacement level at 1B – let’s say he puts up a 115wRC+ with OK defense and some shitty baserunning – 2 WAR?
Anyway, it’s fine as an idea to kick around.
Let me also say that I do not want to trade for Carlos Lee.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I think that's a bad way of doing it
Berkman at first base would be better than Berkman in the OF. By all accounts, Berkman is a -10 fielder in the OF and an average fielder at 1B. Him moving to the outfield costs him about 5 runs per year in value (-10 + -7.5) – (0 + -12.5).
So while Lee would be better by moving to first base (assuming he’s an average defender there), Berkman would be equally worse by moving to the OF.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
yeah that's what i'm saying
Berkman’s WAR would take a hit by moving to RF.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
If you assume Berkman's a -10 defender in RF
And a 0 defender at 1B, he loses .5 WAR by going to the OF.
Carlos Lee gains about .5 WAR by moving to 1B, so it’s a wash.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Lee is fat and old....
…Beltran not quite ads fat or old, and can play CF, moore valuable than 1st base. Beltran easily over Lee, just not moore than 2 years, when the rubber bands and glue stop working.
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
You can always get more glue
as long as you’re willing to beat a dead horse.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 16, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
No
I shouldn’t look at just WAR, but I’m not as gifted in Sabermetrics as others so I did it quickly and just looked up WAR and nothing else. I didn’t look at the why it was 4 WAR. Anyway I understand your position better now and thank you for apologizing.
I'm not seeing a lot that I like out there
If Beltran doesn’t work out. I’ll admit that this one has the benefit of getting to hit the reset button in 1 year. The money won’t be as important as the years if it gets to the point where only bad options exist, so I can see where it would be plausible depending on how much money they’d take on and how little talent we’d have to give…which I believe your entire premise is built on when you brought this up.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 15, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but Carlos Lee seems to about replacement level going forward
We have internal options (Chambers) that would likely be better, and there are other non-Beltran free agents that would definitely be better (Ross, Crisp).
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
is Lee replacement level with 600 PA at 1st base?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
or 600 ABs even
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
If you assume he's an average defender at 1B
Then he’s a bit below 1 WAR.
But then Berkman’s value would take a big hit, because he’d likely be as bad as Lee in the OF. So I think overall, it would be a wash.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
strong point
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
yay for intelligent, rational, level-headed discourse!!!!
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 15, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
NEEDS MOAR CURSING MORANS!
I kid. I kid.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I don't want to trade for him
Just seeing that if a few domino’s fall the wrong way, we might be saying “Lets spend some money, plug some gaps, and make sure any mistakes we’re making are of the 1 year variety”.
He’d at least keep the farm intact completely (God I would hope so at least), and make us a force in FA in 2013.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 15, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but we might as well just sign Ross or someone
who is bound to be a lot better than Lee.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Ross is a bit worse of a hitter than Lee
But a much better defender. And he’s younger, so we’d project less of a decline.
Ross is probably 1.5 WAR better than Lee.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I always thought you put your worst defender at 1B
I was replacing Pujols with Lee. I’m not talking about the outfield. We already have Schumaker, Chambers et al as the 4OF. Why the need to get redundant? Again this is assuming Beltran doesn’t sign with us. Which in all honesty I hope happens but if not, where can we get back the power that left for Anaheim?
Well either way you're moving Berkman to RF
So you have to account for the RF either. Lee doesn’t solve any problems.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
When someone first mentioned Ross I didn't like the idea as much
but now I think I like him almost as much as Beltran, and he’s likely a lot cheaper. I think his skillset tallies a lot with what we need (career .384 wOBA vs RHP, can play CF) and he’s likely a bit undervalued.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
(I assume you mean .384 wOBA vs. LHP)
But yeah. He’d be a nice pick-up who would fit our needs well and likely be much cheaper… which would, of course, make it easier for us to pay Jorge Soler and Yu Darvish.
I'm always in favor of adding someone who wears high socks
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be very disappointed with Ross over Beltran.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Nartleb Solrab doesn't have the same ring to it
However, I think MooCow could get behind a Nertlerb For Nartleb movement.
I'd like to see the card sign both
then we could eat a little bit of Beltran’s salary and then trade him straight up with Martin Prado. Obviously not going to happen but it’s a pipe dream.
Furcal, Prado, Holliday, Berkman, Craig, Freese, Molina, Jay/Ross
Skip Schumaker may not be the best player on the planet but I like the cut of his jib.
“There’s always interest in the back of your mind about what else may be out there, but my agent knew where I wanted to be,” Schumaker said. “This is where I’m comfortable. It’s pretty much a slam dunk for me. This is all I know. It was an easy call. Here, I know what I’m getting into. If you go to a new team, you don’t know. The majority of a really good team is coming back. These are good guys to play with. They’re good people. That’s something that’s very important within a long season.”
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
You just took all the touchy-feely out of it for me now.
Scrooge.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
I'm guessing he could've got a SIMILAR deal somewhere
but you’re probably not talking life-changing amounts of money. I guess the difference between moving your family and staying somewhere you’re comfortable is pretty big, and the difference between 2yr/$3m and (say) 1yr/$2m or 2yr/$3.5m is pretty small.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 15, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
The Pujolses should have hired him as their spokesperson.
This is why I’ve half-jokingly suggested he was signed to be the clubhouse spokesman. He is a quote machine and the media loves him. He probably received a 4.0 GPA at the Crash Davis School of Interview Giving. He may be expressing his genuine feelings on the matter, to be sure, but there is no doubt that he is feeding fans and the media exactly what they want to hear.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Or, Pujols could have paid Buerhle to give a statement
I hope to return to the White Sox / Cardinals in some capacity after my contract with the Marlins / Angels is over.
Bursting into song.
I vote in honor of this quote,
we drop one of the numerals on his uniform.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 15, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Translation: If I go
on the open market, chances are excellent that other teams won’t value my alleged skills nearly as much as the Cardinals have. What, do you think I’m stupid?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 15, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
I walked past my Pujols RoY bobblehead this morning...
I think it was smirking at me.
"There is one word in America that says it all, and that one word is, 'You never know.'" Joaquin Andujar
Pujols bobblehead
isn’t nearly as good at hitting a fastball as the real pujols is.
Grit != flat out sucking.
I'm very dissappointed in Stav declining your show
Keen insight into the Japanese love and hate for the genuflecting homerun is now lost and can never be gotten back
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 15, 2011 12:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions
dear carlos beltran,
you cardinal yet?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
evrytime I hear Beltran, I think of this letter a mets fan wrote.
Gentlemen:
A few final thoughts on our 2006 Mets before they pass from our consciousness and I take my own life.
Jose Reyes. Sure, he didn’t really do anything in the playoffs, but boy can he dance! Don’t get me wrong, I like a leadoff hitter who’s got rhythm, but we got our asses kicked for about a week and ol’ Jose is trotting around the dugout like he’s in a Bar Mitzvah congo line. What the fuck is the matter with this kid? Does he realize that while he’s cha-cha-ing around Ramon Castro, I’m shitting my intestines out on my couch worrying about Oliver Perez? He has dances for everything. He has a dance for when someone gets an RBI, for when someone hits a home run, and very likely, for when our 900 million dollar superstar strikes out with the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth inning in game 7. Which brings me to . . .
Carlos Beltran. Eesh. I don’t even know if I’m ready to discus Carlos Beltran yet. I will just say this: I knew we were in trouble last night when Fox did a player personality profile on Beltran in the 4th inning and revealed that he has a purple ’69 Camero and two identical twin poodles. I shit you not. I hope Jose Reyes has a dance ready for when Beltran comes out of the closet. I’m fine with that by the way. If he’s gay, so be it. I’m good with a gay superstar. BUT HE HAS TO GET A HIT IN THE NINTH! I’d personally tickle his balls and whisper sweet nothings in his ear if he’d even hit a bloop single. Twin poodles. Jesus. And speaking of Jesus, what happened to our own personal messiah . . .
David Wright. Remember him? White kid, face of the franchise, your little sisters thought he was cute, you dads called him a "ballplayer." I’m not sure if he even played this series. I faintly recall someone batting after Delgado and repeatedly hitting weak ground balls to the shortstop, but that wasn’t him, was it? Please tell me that wasn’t him . . . because I think my Mom’s getting me a Wright jersey for Chanukah. And by the way, yes, it just occurred to me that I’m eight years older than David Wright and plan on wearing his jersey.
The Cardinals. Did we really lose to this team? Did Jeff Suppan really kill us? Jeff Fucking Suppan! Adam Wainwright? Who the hell is Adam Wainwright? I think I went to camp with Adam Wainwright. They have literally one hitter on their entire team and the guy looks like he’s one steroid shot away from literally exploding as he runs to first base. Their key hit came from Yadier Molina. Yadier Fucking Molina! He’s not the third best hitting catcher in the league, he’s the THIRD BEST HITTING CATCHER NAMED MOLINA IN THE LEAGUE! Kill me. Just kill me.
Our bullpen. God bless them all. Can’t say anything bad about our bullpen except Wagner (I can’t write you guys about Wagner because I think it would put me on some sort of FBI watch-list). Chad Bradford, I love you. I love the way you throw like a female softball pitcher, I love the way you were always ready to pitch anytime between the 3rd and 7th inning, I love you. Same for you, Feliciano. Don’t even know your first name (Pedro, Paco, Steve? I think it’s Steve). Regardless, great work. Love your name, love your fastball. Guillermo Mota, fantastic. Aaron Heilman . . . I know you gave up the freak home run to Yadier but not your fault, you pitched nine hundred innings in the span of two weeks and frankly, probably should have only went an inning last night. Plus, I think it’s cool when you glare into the catcher that you look like a child molester. Hopefully you’ll be closing for us next year instead of you-know-who. Douche bag Wagner. Fuck you, I hate you.
Endy Chavez. I don’t know what to say about you Endy. Someone will inevitably sign you in the off season and make you their leadoff hitter and you’ll become Reyes without the dancing. For some reason, in our team of 9 gazillion dollar superstars you were the only person I was comfortable with seeing at the plate this entire series. And that catch! Oh Lord, that catch. Down in Florida, you gave my father a coronary and I think he actually died but I don’t blame you for that. It was his time.
Shawn Green and Jose Valentin. Useless, useless, useless. If they are on the team next year I’m boycotting. First of all, Valentin looks like a 70’s porn star and I’m pretty sure I saw Carlos Beltran’s man juice dripping from his mustache when I watched game 6 in high definition. Second, didn’t Shawn Green used to hit 40 home runs? The man looks anorexic. Seriously, we had Nicole Richie playing right field for us last night. I love that he’s Jewish, I really do, but I’d prefer that he be good. I’ll take an Aryan right fielder who can hit at this point. Give me a Taliban right fielder for all I care. As long as he can hit the fucking ball out of the infield.
Next year. Well, obviously, I’m upset. Minaya’s going to go crazy this off-season, and I won’t be surprised if we wind up with Manny Ramirez in the outfield and Soriano at second base and every other city in baseball hating us. Personally, I’d prefer to keep Endy out there, get one more bat, and focus on pitching and getting Wright and Beltran to grow a sac and Reyes to stop dancing and start hitting. Whatever. Fuck it. I spent the last 6 months watching this fucking team. Yadier Molina. Jeff Suppan. Twin Poodles. Fuck. The best part of this all? A week ago I was telling everyone who would listen this was my favorite team ever. Shit. At least the Yankees suck.
by Action Jaxon on Dec 15, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 24 recs
this is hilarious
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
this letter made m y night.
Cards fan in Seoul.
Albert Pujols is the hero saint louis deserves, but not the one it can afford right now. So we'll strike him out because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's an A-Rod
by letsgostlcardinals on Dec 15, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
I laughed quite a few times.
He has dances for everything. He has a dance for when someone gets an RBI, for when someone hits a home run, and very likely, for when our 900 million dollar superstar strikes out with the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth inning in game 7.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
LOLOL
The Cardinals. Did we really lose to this team? Did Jeff Suppan really kill us? Jeff Fucking Suppan! Adam Wainwright? Who the hell is Adam Wainwright? I think I went to camp with Adam Wainwright.
Cards fan in Seoul.
Albert Pujols is the hero saint louis deserves, but not the one it can afford right now. So we'll strike him out because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's an A-Rod
by letsgostlcardinals on Dec 15, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I remember that letter
I actually had a friend who was a cubs fan email it to me, and it never ever gets old
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 15, 2011 1:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
My favorite line has always been
HE’S THE THIRD BEST HITTING CATHCHER IN THE LEAGUE NAMED MOLINA!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 15, 2011 1:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It really had to be galling for other teams
in the playoffs that year to be losing games because Yadi Molina, after a year of sub-sub-sub-replacement level offense, suddenly turned into Wade Boggs.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 15, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
and let us not forget SO's homer off of Wagner in Game 2
i wish i could find billy’s locker room quote after the game…something about So becoming babe ruth – it was classic. btw, thanks for posting this hysterical letter, action j!
by westsidecards on Dec 15, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I will never forget Taguchi's homerun.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
SO clutch
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
why have i never seen this before
this is classic
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Thanks for sharing this - very funny
A few final thoughts on our 2006 Mets before they pass from our consciousness and I take my own life.
I’m glad the Cardinals have not lost a series in a last inning / crushing fashion in a while (not since 1985 ?)
Suicide in’t anything to joke about, and I’m sure the poster was being flip, but losing like the Mets did in 06 and the Phillies and especially the Rangers in 11 would be real hard to swallow. Glad it was them and not us.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
was this the Mets fan who was sitting in the front row in Detroit
for Game 1 of the WS that year in his Mets jersey?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 15, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Twin poodles. Jesus.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 15, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yes!
Now I really like Beltran!
:=8)
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
my first greenie
i’d like to thank my dad for bringing this to my attention all those years ago. Also, the VEB community who did not intimidate, scare, and generally deter me from posting. A shout out to my parents for giving me the courage and strength to use their basement to make this happen. And lastly, i’d like to thank Chris Carpenter for not GAF!
by Action Jaxon on Dec 15, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Please check...
☐ YES
☐ NO
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
I think you mean
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 15, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
since getting on the SABR bandwagon
i find it increasingly difficult to talk to my dad about baseball…anyone else have that problem?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
i find it increasingly difficult to talk to Red Sox fans about baseball
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
I find it increasingly difficult to talk about baseball
Now all I use are hand signals.
Yep, every Hall of Famer did something unique. Mike Schmidt played with his hat sideways. Roberto Clemente chewed other people's fingernails. Tris Speaker was Japanese. Lou Boudreau rode a dolphin into the batter's box. Nap Lajoie would only use John Wilkes Booth's dismembered leg as a bat. And he corked it. Johnny Mize was from the future. - FJM
Smoke signals are better.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 15, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
But they are harder to produce
and are less understood.
Yep, every Hall of Famer did something unique. Mike Schmidt played with his hat sideways. Roberto Clemente chewed other people's fingernails. Tris Speaker was Japanese. Lou Boudreau rode a dolphin into the batter's box. Nap Lajoie would only use John Wilkes Booth's dismembered leg as a bat. And he corked it. Johnny Mize was from the future. - FJM
Well, usually, but you see I know "a guy"
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 15, 2011 4:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
On the contrary,
I feel like he has some sort of mystical SABR-intuitiveness. When I was younger and first got into the traditional stats, despite his knowing nothing about sabermetrics, he’d say things like “Batting average isn’t everything…Mark McGwire doesn’t have to hit .300 to be an excellent hitter.” or “Wins aren’t everything…you’re still relying on your team to score runs.” or “ERA isn’t everything…you’re still relying on your teammates to catch the damn ball” (promptly interrupted by a ‘Damnit Lankford catch the fucking ball!’). So, it’s like I now have tools to explain why he was always right to begin with.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 15, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you know
if i look at it like this…my dad may be more sabr friendly than i thought.
he used to make comments like these
maybe i am going to over the top with him
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
my pops also has that "SABR-intuitiveness"
while he has no idea of the different metrics (really neither do I), the way he discusses baseball is similar to someone who understands sabermetrics. Except when it comes to Pujols.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
all the time w/ friends that are Nats fans
also, at least once, one of ‘em asked about BABIP, so there’s that.
youneverknow
I find that with some people I know, I just stay in the SABR closet to avoid idiotic discussions, or I couch my teardowns of SABR-terrible players with mainstream language.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
pretty much same
although i was able to convince my best friends of everything, including the idea that every single event in baseball is lucky or unlucky to some degree. Once you can do that, you can convince them of anything.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
As long as you don't run into a pitcher W-L non-thinker
It’s not too big of a problem.
Not afraid to nitpick
You mean if you have the most wins in baseball
your not the best pitcher in baseball? Please say it isn’t so.
But, but QBR!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 15, 2011 4:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah.
It’s rough because he’ll say things like, “But Felix Hernandez only has 12 wins” when we are talking about the Cy Young and then I’ll lay out why that doesn’t matter and he’ll accept it because he is fair-minded and logical. But his entire baseball worldview is informed by baseball cards from the 1950s and 1960s so he cares a lot more about BA/HR/RBI and ERA/“Wins” than I do.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i wonder how many VEBers are baseball/cardinals fans because of their dads
i know i am
be interesting to see what BE would have been like in 1968
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
what VEB, not BE
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
It would not have existed until 1967.
Perhaps, in this alternate reality, it would be called “The Gashouse Gang” or something.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
that would have been a cool name for the blog
now there is that terrible Gas House Graphs blog. That place is terrible. I think they’ll let just about anyone write for them.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
my dad says I watched the 1985 World Series with him
but I was only 4, so I have no recollection of it
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 15, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
My dad has been known to participate in Joe Strauss Live
OTOH my dad’s buddy/ my godfather is in SABR I’m pretty sure, so idk.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
hahaha just found one of his questions Strauss answered.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
I've had to adjust myself when talking to my dad, I just slyly slip the SABR in without any direct references
My brother is really open to learning though, so I just name the stats
Manchester City: 38 points, 12-0-2, 1st in EPL, +35 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 3 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 15, 2011 9:19 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
it is absurd to pay $225/ticket for a UFC fight?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Yes.
But I’m not a UFC fan.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
maybe...
do you think it is ridiculous to ask my girlfriend to get me tickets to the Royal Rumble for Christmas?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I'm trying to get this to happen for myself.
I haven’t liked wrestling in years too
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 15, 2011 2:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
my friend just accidently spilled the beans to me.
she got the password for the presale and got me floor seats! She might be pushing IHB for bad ass present status.
I actually am a fan of wrestling (or “sports entertainment”), really for no other than it is entertaining!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
yeah i got that password, too
damn, floor seats are expensive!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Wait... are you talking about the Royal Rumble or the UFC event?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
oh ha UFC
you are going to royal rumble?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
is 125/ticket more reasonable?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Yes, I believe it is
but then again, isn’t 125 a ticket more reasonable than 225 a ticket for pretty much anything?
Yep, every Hall of Famer did something unique. Mike Schmidt played with his hat sideways. Roberto Clemente chewed other people's fingernails. Tris Speaker was Japanese. Lou Boudreau rode a dolphin into the batter's box. Nap Lajoie would only use John Wilkes Booth's dismembered leg as a bat. And he corked it. Johnny Mize was from the future. - FJM
well yeah but the 225 seats are way better
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I would hope so
But since I wouldn’t even pay $1.25 to see UFC, these all seem pretty outlandish.
Yep, every Hall of Famer did something unique. Mike Schmidt played with his hat sideways. Roberto Clemente chewed other people's fingernails. Tris Speaker was Japanese. Lou Boudreau rode a dolphin into the batter's box. Nap Lajoie would only use John Wilkes Booth's dismembered leg as a bat. And he corked it. Johnny Mize was from the future. - FJM
Get some guy to pay for it.
/sexist
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
this is a present for my boyfriend
i think i have to get the cheaper seats, when you factor in the costs of air fare and a hotel room in vegas
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Just get him a glossy photo from the World Series instead.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
get him a day with Waino
i feel like more fun could not be had
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
now quick someone tell me whether 201 or 225 is the better section
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I was told there'd be no maps
201
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
there is literally no difference
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
i know. i am so afraid of making the wrong decision!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
looks like its time for....
eeeny meeeny miney mo
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
went with 201.
this is going to be a damn good present.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
good job on the gift!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
wow.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
the problem is that unless you get good tickets, you can't see shit at a UFC event.
(and since I like to watch the fight, but don’t have a closet full of affliction t-shirts, the atmosphere can be grating)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
oh well.
i can’t spend $500/ticket
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
The difference between mediocre seats and bad seats is nearly nothing
It’s about the crowd energy anyway.
Not afraid to nitpick
you did it for the World Series!
don’t you love him more than the Cardinals?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
BAHAHA no of course not
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
by IHeartBoog on Dec 15, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
vegas: booked
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
kind of jealous about your life.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
i mean, its nice to have money for this sort of thing, but i have been at work from 9 to 9 basically every day the last two weeks
plus worked a 1/2 day on sunday. there’s ups and downs.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
do you get comp time/extra vacation?
i know you’re a lawyer and working hard is part of the job and all but it seems like one would burn out without extra time off if they’re working 12 hours/day and 6 days a week.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
i don't "get" vacation
i take time off here and there when i can. sometimes you’re so busy it’s impossible. sometimes you’re below budget and you can’t afford to take any time off. i haven’t had a real vacation since i started here.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
wow...
more respect for you.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Well that doesn't sound like very much fun
Hand some money over to me; I promise I’ll have lots of fun with your money!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
this.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, my dads a lawyer and works his ass off
I would never choose that profession.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Whoever it was that I was discussing Darvish's posting fee with
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 15, 2011 1:31 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
LOLOLOL
copy and pasting your patient charts onto VEB
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
i'm so lucky there was no medical hx or a name in that
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Worrisome Realization:
Didn’t Elvis say something along the lines of feeling like his knees felt better in the outfield because of the lack of lateral movement? Slotting him in at first therefore = more PumaKnee concern?
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
Aren't Craig and Berkman pretty interchangeable between first and right ?
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'd imagine Craig is better defensively,
but the comments re:knees at first make me nervous.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 15, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
In the minors
Craig has played 149 games as a corner outfielder, 93 at first base and 246 at third. I think you put Berkman at whichever position is better for him – right or first – and put Craig at the other.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty much. However...
The vast majority of Craig’s starts at first came at Memphis: 75 in 2009 and 2010. In fact, in 2010, Craig played 33 games at first, 44 in LF, and 6 in RF.
I would think that part of the Cardinals’ future plans for Craig involve moving him to first base full time, where his arm wouldn’t be an issue. With Berkman signed for next year, I envision Craig taking a few starts to rest him and to get Craig acclimated at the major league level.
I can see the argument that behind someone like Jake Westbrook,
Allen Craig should be at 1B with Berkman in right. Craig is around average defensively while Berkman is a butcher wherever he goes.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Berkman stated clearly in his interview
on the radio the other day that he was selling us a “bill of goods” when he said it would be easier on his knees to play the OF last year.
He said he is excited to get to play first base again and that while it is different (more lateral movement), it isn’t any harder on his legs/knees.
He's selling us a bill of goods!
Don’t listen to him!
it woudl be great if the interviewer asked Berk
then how can we know if you are telling the truth now…?
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 2:51 AM EST up reply actions
Look again.
Berkman is a crappy 1B and a crappy outfielder by UZR. Thus, if our staff requires more competent IF than OF, Craig’s average defense might be better leveraged in the infield.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I think Berkman is likely to be average at 1B
As is Craig. Defense at 1B has a lot less to do with speed or agility or the other things that make Berkman a shitty outfielder.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
um, what?
career UZR/150 at 1B is positive. like i said, decent. not good, necessarily, but not bad either. i was always under the impression Berkman was always considered very good at scooping balls, etc, at 1B too. (btw, is that accounted for in UZR? i would think not offhand but i don’t remember).
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 15, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
Career numbers for a 36 year old?
He was great in 2008 at 1B, and almost 100% of his positive value is derived from that season. His UZR/150 at 1B in the three years since that point has been about -2 and we was bloody awful last season. Arguing that Berkman will be average is tantamount to arguing that Beltran will compete for a gold glove in CF next season. These guys are old and defense is one of the things that goes down fastest.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
145 innings at first last year doesn't mean much of anything
Like you said, over the past three years his UZR/150 at first is -2 and that’s in a little over 2000 innings, which isn’t a very reliable sample size. And 3 years is an arbitrary cutoff – his 2008 season suggests he’s better.
Also, I don’t think first baseman age that much on defense. I can’t find any good aging curves based on position, but intuitively, it would seem like 1B has the highest ratio of technique:athleticism. And technique shouldn’t age a lot.
It’s reasonable to project Berkman as close to an average defender at 1B, and I think the difference between his defense at 1B and the OF would be higher than the positional adjustment. I could see it being lower for Craig as he hasn’t played much first and his best defensive attributes seem to be his arm and athleticism.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 16, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Also makes me weak in the knees
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 15, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
he was just toeing the company line
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Berkman's position
will have more to do with how far he has to run to get there. If the Cards are at home then he will be playing 1st, if their away he will play 3B, if he is sitting in the bullpen before the game starts then he will play RF, etc.
by Schnurdog on Dec 15, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Career WAR
Ted Williams- 139.8
Stan Musial- 139.3
Unbelievable baseball players
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Yes.
Williams’s WAR is equal to Musial’s because he missed more time fighting in WW II as a fighter pilot (1943-1945) than Musial missed (just 1945) playing baseball while serving in the Navy.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
once again proving why the Korean War is the "Forgotten War"
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 15, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that's a huge oversight by me.
I can’t believe I forgot that Williams fought in the Korean War also.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
WAR/game
musial: 0.046034
williams: 0.06099
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
There are many, including myself, who consider Williams the greatest hitter
in the history of the game. He lost three seasons (age 24-26) to WWII and virtually all of two more (age 33-34) to the Korean War. Conservatively, that was 40 lost WAR to the wars.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
i don't think 8 WAR/season is being conservative.
but yeah the dude was really damn good.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
for williams it is
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
...which is ridiculous and true.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
it may not be conservative, but it may be accurate
I never realized he had a 12+WAR season, actually went to war, then had a 12+WAR season. Incredible.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
ever looked at babe ruth's fangraphs page?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
oh yeah. it's silly.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
If you ever want to convince on old timer about SABR
Tell them how well WAR clarifies Williams and Ruth’s dominance over modern players, it’s stupid. Once they get over Bonds they love SABR from there on out
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 15, 2011 4:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i would totally agree with this
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
When Musial retired. . .
he was the career leader in extra base hits. More than the Babe. More than the Splendid Splinter. And to date only Hank Aaron and Barry Bonds have passed him.
That’s really darn impressive.
Granted, the time that Williams gave to two different wars would have made a difference, but there’s no shame in being less impressive than Ted Williams. Plus, Ted will probably pass Musial anyway once unfrozen and reanimated in a new body.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Don't be so sure.
His head might not be in the best of shape!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
ted williams - worth more in a week than ryan theriot
In a season.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 15, 2011 10:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
seriously. it's 2/25
sign the mang!
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
crap
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
But how many years
for a personal services contract ?
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Just give it to him...
In 2014 we have, Garcia (10M), Waino (12M), Miller (500K), and Lynn/Martinez/Cleto/Rzep (all 500K-2M each) in the rotation. Plus Holliday (17M), Descalso/Wong/Cox/Freese/Greene/Craig/Taveras/Jay/Adams (all 500K-2M) in the lineup.
We could easily release him, eat the $13 million and grab another high priced free agent. The specter of dead money in 2014 is not a concern for this team at all.
Sign Roy O
agreed.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
ZiPS has him at .270/.339/.443 in Year 3 of the potential deal
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Yeah...
I would just put him down for zero value in 2014 and whatever you get is a bonus. The above team looks like it could compete for a playoff spot and it only costs like $70 million.
Sign Roy O
i feel like our FO's preparation for a Pujols signing...
has left us in a nice position going into the future. We have some nice young MLB talent and some really nice prospects.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
And if Molina comes back...
it would be around $80 million. Plus Beltran $93 million… still more than enough room to add on.
Sign Roy O
I don't trust that lineup at all
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Well, yeah
We know nothing about like 5 of those guys
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
So I think we should expect some of them to not work out
We can’t be too cavalier with payroll.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
There's 10 guys there...
for 7 spots. I’m not saying we’ll have a lineup of all-stars, but it’s likely Holliday, Freese/Cox/Carp, and Craig will form a reasonably decent middle of the lineup. And there would be money to get a Carlos Pena-type if Adams busts.
Sign Roy O
i actually think berkman will put up 5 WAR until he's 55.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
His smile alone generates 2 WAR
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Dec 15, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm pretty certain Lance Berkman is Bill Brasky!
Lance Berkman is a 8-foot, 2 ton monster who can palm a medicine ball!
I once saw Lance Berkman scissor kick Angela Lansbury!
Lance Berkman’s family crest is a picture of a barracuda, eating Neil Armstrong!
Lance Berkman went public with his own buttocks and made 7 million!
Lance Berkman would use his own thigh as an anvil!
TO LANCE BERKMAN!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by SheckieZx on Dec 15, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
the word "buttocks" made me LOL
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 15, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a cover of a post on Amaury Cazana
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 15, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
bernie speculates about molina’s future today.
what’s VEB’s opinion on molina?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:17 PM EST reply actions
$10M for a 34 year old catcher with a lot of miles?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
He was worth 4.1 WAR last year (Fangraphs)
So even with expected decline to 2009/2010 stats where he was worth 3.5 and 2.4, it seems like 10M/year would be just fine
Don't trust catcher WAR too much though
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
but in yadi's case
he’s probably worth more WAR than he is given credit for
he has to take a huge hit in value due to how catcher defense is currently calcuated into WAR, right?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Then what do we trust?
If we trust the “eye” test, I would say Molina is one of the three most important Cardinals behind Waino, Holliday
agreed
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
I should clarify
Your point, that he will be worth that money, is absolutely valid
Just that catcher WAR very likely understates a catcher’s value
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i would tend to agree with this.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, that makes sense
It is also interesting to note that he will only be 30 by the end of next year, which isn’t all that old (except it is older in “catcher years”)
But if anything it'll value Molina too low
It had him as an average defender last year, which just doesn’t seem right to me. FanGraphs WAR doesn’t include PB or WP, only SB numbers, and I don’t think they adjust for opportunities (Yadier only will have the best try to steal off of him).
Also, according to that new study on framing, Yadier could add close to a win a year for that.
He could very well be a 5 WAR player going forward.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Also, the people making tags were Skip and Theriot, and they are both terrible at it. (Skip especially - his hands are soooo slow)
I bet Yadi’s numbers go up a bit with Furcal/Greene/Descalso out there.
(Btw, Punto was great at taking throw and putting the tag on runners at 2B)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I saw Skip drop at least 3 CS's last year
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Also, hasn't Garcia been pretty bad at holding runners on?
That’d probably show up in Yadi’s numbers too.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 15, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Garcia has had more trouble than probably any other pitcher during Molina's tenure.
Regardless of his CS%, he still keeps the running game in check.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
This is really a function of how you feel about the farm system.
Cruz, Anderson and Cody Stanley represent some good, deep potential. Personally, I think Yadi will follow AP. Angels catching is atrocious.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
lol they traded napoli...
also, i think anderson has basically zero potential.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
I look at his comps – the other Molinas, Ramon Hernandez, Benito Santiago, Ausmus Pierzynski, Kendall… They all kind of keep chugging away through their early 30s. What’s going to age? His value is mostly in his game-calling, his arm, his leadership, the way he frames pitches, etc… All that will hold up.
Plus a four year deal would only take him through his age 33 season
Sign Roy O
his bat became a weapon this year
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
wOBA the last five years
.311
.323
.337
.299
.349
Which of these is not like the others? It seems like there has been a consistent upward trend with 2010 being the abberation.
regardless, he's league average or slightly below league average with the bat moving forward.
coupled with his defense at the most premium position make him extremely valuable.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Trends don't really matter, you can't just discount Yadi's 2010 season
I think .750 OPS is Yadi’s upper quadrant for next year.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
That is an odd statement to make
Trends do very much matter, particularly in baseball where they are often tied to improvement and maturation as a player, in this case a hitter.
Obviously, as he ages those number will trend downwards. I agree that we cannot throw out 2010 when projecting forward, but neither can we throw out general trending.
I mean to say that there is no such thing as statistical trends in baseball
You can’t just predict the next point on the line by looking the trend, you have to account for all the data.
Yadi’s 2010 season drags down our expectations as much as his 2011 season raises them. No more no less (actually a little less, because 2011 is more recent.)
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
well trends do matter.
“Trends” tend to look at the more recent data, which has more weight than older data.
but, like you said,
you just can’t predict the next point on the line by looking at the trend.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
look
Yadi was a 2.4 WAR player in 2010 and a 4.1 WAR player in 2011. We can predict he will be:
2010 2.4 WAR
2011 4.1 WAR
2012 5.8 WAR
2013 7.5 WAR
2014 9.2 WAR
2015 10.9 WAR
2016 12.6 WAR
So yes, I think Mo should look him up and 4 years/$40 million sounds like a steal for me.
I’m looking forward to Berkman’s 7.9 WAR season in 2012 also.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Nobody said keep projecting forward
That is just silly
But after looking at the past 5 years, its clear he isn’t “falling off of a cliff yet”
That settles it
4 yrs 80M
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
im using his most recent two season to produce a linear prediction of his future WAR
i thought it was sorta funny, but if you have to explain it…
Grit != flat out sucking.
but 2010's a pretty recent season
even the comment above dismissed it because it didn’t fit into the trend. you adjust the trend to fit the actual data, not the other way around.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
The point I was making
Was that it doesn’t appear he is on the downhill side of his career. He has shown improvement in 4 of the last 5 years and is currently only 29.
no i agree
but you have to give some weight to 2010. projecting him to repeat 2011 is wildly optomistic.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Expecting him to repeat a career year at age 29 is very optimistic. But I also think it is more likely he repeat 2011 than 2010. Why? Because 2010 was so unlike the past 5 years and I think it is the least representative of Molina’s true talent level, even as he ages.
I think he's likely to play at about 2008 level
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
I suspect. . .
that some other team will pay Yadi more than the Cards will, and I suspect that he will leave.
And that’s OK. Yadi might be a HOFer, but it is far more likely that he will be out of baseball by 2015.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
2015?
2018 maybe
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Catchers can just fall apart. . .
it happens.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
true
they can also become backups that only play 25 games a year
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
which, for this analysis. . .
is both the same thing and more likely.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
well yea
but he will still be in baseball
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Carlton Fisk caught 2226 games until the age of 45!
and had a 5.1 WAR season at age 42! This has no bearing on how long Molina can last of course, but thats just insane.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 15, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
but he's a MOLINA!
they’re built to last! seriously, he does come from a pretty durable gene pool, no? also, don’t we have a “decent” chance of taking care of this during (before?) the 2012 season, so FA never comes up? i see the attraction of LA too, but i gotta imagine his satisfaction with the cards wasn’t overwhelmingly pu-related. let’s also see how happy pu ends up being in LA….it might not be as heavenly as moreno’s 30-minute pitch.
by westsidecards on Dec 15, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
I'd guess his brothers'
feelings about Moreno and the Angels will help to make or break the case for Yadi. If the former are fans of Moreno we’re in trouble (assuming the Halos need a catcher at that point).
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 15, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
ugh, you're right
and i totally spaced that scioscia has been there over a decade! darn, he was a catcher too, so they will probably bond over all that catchery-perspective-stuff. i can’t handle another potential cardinal-sad right now, so i’m going to play scarlett, “…i’ll think about that tomorrow!”
by westsidecards on Dec 15, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
i'm almost certain that yadi will be an angel two seasons from now.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Do you think the Cardinals signed JC Romero to make JC Corcoran feel better?
‘Cuz I’m always excited when my favorite team has players with the same name as me.
If I had a tagline, this would be it.
It was so sweet me and Jim Edmonds have the same first and last name
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
That is a negative
First and Middle name
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
your middle name is Half-Shirt?
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Yeah, I have a Twitter...big whoop...wanna fight about it?
I thought it was Hollywood?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 16, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Hitler Reacts to Pujols Leaving
Not sure if anyone has posted this already (too many comments to read in the last week) but I thought I would post it anyways, sorry if you have already seen it.
Link
Sign me!
by arthropodtodd on Dec 15, 2011 3:52 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
"It's okay, we still have Berkman."
Albert who? Nope, not familiar with the guy. Is he any good?
by arthropodtodd on Dec 15, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
I had been waiting for this, and they did a good job.
You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time. ~Jim Bouton
Okay, Mo
If you won’t go for Darvish or Cespedes, could you please just throw me a bone and look into Jorge Soler? Please, give me something to be excited about.
by purple_haze on Dec 15, 2011 4:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
here's an article on soler and cespedes.
soler looks a lot more interesting to me than does cespedes.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
actually, that is mostly about cespedes.
let me look for an article that deals with soler in more depth.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
More interesting than Cespedes?!
Maybe you need to re-watch the training video.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I know, I actually would probably prefer Soler
But right now Cespedes is still more “interesting” bcuz of his ridiculous video.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously though
I don’t understand why this team doesn’t pursue Cespedes. A true centerfielder fits so much better on this team than some weird mix of corner outfielders platooning each other. Why would we want Beltran hobbling around in center or blocking Allen Craig when having a real CF would give everyone a clearer path toward playing time and we wouldn’t have to deal with senior citizen defense?
by purple_haze on Dec 15, 2011 5:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
because. . .
the jump from Cuba to major league baseball is bigger than the jump from Mets/Giants to major league baseball.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, let's try to put Beltran in CF
See how long it takes for him to break down. If Beltran ends up our starting CF and Yoennis is someone else’s starting CF, I’d be glad to bet Cespedes 2012 WAR > Beltran 2012 WAR. But more than that, I would be superglad to bet Cespedes WAR over the next three years > Beltran WAR over the next three years (and I think he will get three years).
by purple_haze on Dec 15, 2011 5:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
How good is Cespedes
Because Beltran projects at 3.5 WAR next year, even in center.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. The chances of Cespedes. . .
putting up positive WAR at all at hte major league level, much less 3.5 WAR, are pretty small.
Certainly, I have reservations about Beltran’s durability, but comparing Beltran and Cespedes for 2012 is like comparing apples and steel-belted radial tires.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
You don't think he'll put up a positive WAR in his first season?
The man is 25 and he’s going to get paid like a starter. If he can’t put together any value at all, then you are basically saying he’s a bust.
by purple_haze on Dec 15, 2011 5:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The bet is not that Cespedes is better than Beltran
The bet is that Beltran will get injured and Cespedes will not, a highly likely scenario.
by purple_haze on Dec 15, 2011 5:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What for?
Won’t his arb years presumably be bought out by his major league deal? Am I missing something?
by purple_haze on Dec 15, 2011 5:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I've also heard they want to cushion the transition...
he doesn’t speak English or have any conception of the American consumer culture.
Sign Roy O
But if both are healthy. . .
Beltran is a major league baseball player, and probably one of the best 50-100 in the majors.
Cespedes may not even be in the majors.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Both have a chance at getting injured
I would say if you played the season out 100 times, Beltran would play 120 games and Cespedes would play 140.
How good is Cespedes and how much more would he cost?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
See, that projection for Beltran sounds way optimistic to me
For a guy who, last two years he tried to hold down a CF spot, play 77 and 61 games. How can you see it being better now, at age 35?
by purple_haze on Dec 15, 2011 6:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Those years he had knee surgery and then was recovering from knee surgery.
Up to 2009-2010, he had played 140+ games for eight straight seasons. He was moved to RF because of the knee problems slowing him down, not because playing CF makes him more injury prone. He’s fully recovered from surgery to repair his knee now, so there shouldn’t be any major problems. The reason he might not play CF is that he’s older and bigger and slower than he used to be.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
If you say so
Makes me uneasy, myself. I’d just, for so many reasons, rather get younger.
by purple_haze on Dec 15, 2011 6:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think we're pretty young already
How good is Cespedes?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
The scouting report that I've seen goes like this:
Power is his best tool, followed by speed. Plenty good enough to cover centerfield. Could be problems with contact skills. So the whole thing could go south if he can’t hit a breaking ball. It’s just difficult to tell. But 30 HR power from centerfield for a guy going into his peak is good enough for me.
by purple_haze on Dec 15, 2011 6:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, so I think he definitely has a lot more risk than Beltran
We’re right on the 90-92 win mark, so I think it makes more sense to go for the sure upgrade than to play for the future. I think Beltran’s definitely a better bet to be better next year.
won’t cespedes cost around the same?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
more risk, more reward
i think Cespedes might be a couple million short of Beltran on a per year basis. I think that, although he’ll get more, Chapman’s contract will be a model.
no way cespedes has higher upsides next year than Beltran
I’d say it’s highly unlikely cespedes is ever as good as Beltran was last year, and that wasn’t even close to Beltran’s best season.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
more risk, more reward is a bad way to do things
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on where you are.
For the Pirates it makes sense. For us, not so much.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
disagree
even for a team like the pirates, minimizing risk is a big deal
for example look at how much risk the rays take on. lots of small 1-2 year deals. large commitment to the amateur draft. wrapping up their young players cheaply.
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
You can disagree but your position is patently incorrect.
A higher reward/higher risk move is more likely to earn a playoff berth for a crappy team than a low-risk move is. It’s simple math. If you are an 80 win team and you get two guaranteed wins, your playoff odds go up infinitesimally. If you are an 80 win team and you gain 6 wins, your playoff odds go up by a factor of 10 or more. If you lose two or six wins, who gives a shit since you already sucked?
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
This sorta thing makes me nervous about Cespedes
He expects a team to sign him to a like 5 year deal for several million dollars, but nobody seems to know what his projected hitting profile would be. Is he a TTO guy? Or maybe just a hacker with a reasonable batting average, high slugging, and just avg-below average OBP? I personally would never feel comfortable making that kind of investment unless I’ve got Yankee style cash to throw around.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
sounds like a slightly younger rick ankiel
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
I thought the team was pretty old compared to others?
I do agree that the youth movement is on though. There’s no need to change our FA evals to try to get younger. Bullpen should be pretty young though. Problem is some of our “young” guys are actually oldish (Freese, Greene).
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
I see what you did there.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 15, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
Would getting both be out of the question?
Or Cespedes and Ross/Crisp? I’m not sure exactly where we are and how much we have to spend. But if we could get Beltran 2yr/24-26M and then sign Cespedes to a 6yr/48-54M, I’d be headed to the store to buy a Mo jersey.
I know this is at least partly tongue-in-cheek
However, I was just curious so I looked up both of their Fans projections on Fangraphs. I have no idea what kind of track record it has for forecasting defense, but the Fans project Beltran for a -4.0 UZR and Craig for a 0 UZR. Now, given Beltran has primarily been center fielder and Craig a LF/RF in the majors, anybody care to make an educated guess as to what we could expect from them in these various positional scenarios? If they flipped?
Last year in CF he had a UZR/150 of 16. hehehehe
Seriously though, even the fact that this could be a legit question is somewhat disturbing.
Fanpost
I did this post for some fun given the heated threads lately…I posted one similar in 08, but spell checked this one.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2011/12/15/2637572/music-and-baseball
because TLR
True or False
Carlos Beltran is kinda, sorta, the Royals’ version of J.D. Drew.
I know it’s not a perfect comparison, but it just struck me that they have some things in common.
i don't know.
i have heard nothing but love for Beltran from Royals fans, that is not quite the case for JD Drew.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
yeah definitely
Beltran’s even better than Drew though.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Right. It'd be interesting to see what Drew could have done if he had stayed on the field as much as Beltran
Career Fangraphs wOBA: Beltran .372, Drew .377
Career Fangraphs Fielding: Beltran 56.5, Drew 77.5
Career Fangraphs BsR (2002 on): Beltran 30.5, Drew 10.6
Career Fangraphs WAR: Beltran 61.7, Drew 47.6
Now, Beltran has played 200-something more games, and has 1600-or-so more PAs than Drew. It’s a crude way to do it, but diving fWAR by games played, Beltran is at approximately .035 fWAR/G, and Drew at .030 fWAR/G.
yeah, heh, that's pretty big
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Drew likely could have played CF, right?
He was always plus-plus in RF when healthy, and he was blocked at CF by Edmonds and then Andruw Jones
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I always thought so.
At least early in his career.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 15, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
yeah definitely, but i'm sure his defense would have taken a hit
Beltran’s among the best center-fielders of our generation.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
There is a version of JD Drew
In a universe not too far from this one in which he is a first ballot HoF
by purple_haze on Dec 15, 2011 5:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
and in that universe we don't trade Colby and still win the WS
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
...
….
seriously
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
just making a point
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
That Holliday/Rasmus/Drew outfield is was pretty awesome
Also, the infield of Pujols/Kelly Johnson/J.J. Hardy/Rolen was a thing to behold.
BONER
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Boog was the shortstop
in VEB’s alternate universe
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Drew means no Wainwright.
I don’t like that.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 15, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What are you talking about?
In the alternate universe we traded Renteria, Craig Paquette, and Bo Hart for Wainwright.
great...so we didn't make the W.S. in '04?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Injuries don't happen in alternate universes
Also, um… we drafted Pedro Martinez a long time ago and locked him up.
nonono
we traded Drew
then signed him when he hit FA
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 2:56 AM EST up reply actions
Dang, my sensor readings on the space-time window are out of whack
I am not sure what to believe anymore about the (other) alternate universe Cardinals.
The Cardinals facebook group thing announced it too.
No word on how much $ tho.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
How does Doozles compare to Drewes, or is it blasphemy to even suggest it?
I live in CoMo and just learned from my student about Doozles. I think there is a Doozles in Wentzville.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
I am saying my Hail Marys right now.
Wait. I am not even Catholic.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
What I miss about Columbia, MO
Trops – drive through mixed drink store
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
I miss McNallys
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Dec 15, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Trops now offers its mixes for sale!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
New twist on Braun
I heard a rumor that he might be cleared of all charges. The initial positive was from herpes medicine he was taking.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 5:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
lol
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 15, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
twitter rumor, yo
it has to be true
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 15, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
I am skeptical
I am not a doctor but steroids for a virus doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
nothing I would consider a source
just google Braun Herpes
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
lol no way would I ever do that.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hah
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
heh heh heh
which news would be funnier to VEB, Braun on PEDs, or Braun has herpes? I can imagine a glorious amount of STD memes next season if this is true.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 15, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
me either
also: I don’t really get the stigma attached to STDs. I mean obviously they are gross and not something you want, but I don’t understand the “HAHA YOU HAVE A SHAMEFUL AND SOCIALLY CRIPPLING DISEASE!!” attitude. I can’t come up with a good analogy to save my life, but it’s obviously not as acceptable to treat alcoholics the same way, for instance.
by all4tookie on Dec 15, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
(i'll leave it up to VolsnCards if he wants to publish my medical history)
by all4tookie on Dec 15, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Nice
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 15, 2011 7:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Did you like this?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 15, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Nice
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 15, 2011 7:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Did you like this?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 15, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Alcoholics have a chemical dependency. It's different
But that is an interesting observation. It’s definitely odd.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, i guess my point was they are both directly due to controllable actions
My best guess is that it’s related to whatever it is that makes dick jokes funny but lung jokes not.
different perspective
i believe the control required to tackle an addiction is exponentially greater than the control required to have safe sex. plus, people tend to have compassion for addicts, not for someone’s sex life (unless it is non-existent…then there’s pity). separately, IF this rumor proves to be true, i hope braun hires a PI to find the jerk that leaked this info, and sues his ass off. i think it’s a huge invasion of privacy. as per mlb, it’s just no one’s business right now.
by westsidecards on Dec 15, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'd say it's much more okay to laugh at Braun and his herpes.
Addiction is something that ruins your life. You made some bad choices to get to that point, but it’s so destructive and consuming that your choices are pitiable more than they are risible.
I mean, looking at Braun how can you not imagine a douche hanging out late at Pop’s to hit on…in the words of Julian Tavarez…the Washington Nationals.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Yeah I doubt Braun is addicted to glove-free sex
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
He might just say
Nah it’s ok, I’ll just take the 50 days off, tks.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 15, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
I think I have a great new Idea for a Brewers attendance give away
http://www.giantmicrobes.com/us/products/herpes.html
Though I think the Dodgers used it for Lima a while ago
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 2:59 AM EST up reply actions
Nice!
I think this would be my favorite resolution to this story of all. The reputations of MLB and Braun as a baseball player are untarnished but Braun still comes out looking kinda douchey.
by purple_haze on Dec 15, 2011 5:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
can't believe I'm the first to rec this.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
That rumor may actually have been inadvertently started by BCB
From a comment generically speculating about it.
So I wouldn’t put much stock in it, though even I have to admit it would be kind of funny if true.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 15, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
he's never been known as a glove-man
by STLRegalia on Dec 15, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 13 recs
The terrorists win if this comment doesn't go green.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Your sig makes me want to rec everything you say.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 15, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
dude had a 1-something FIP against lefties...
used correctly i don’t mind this signing. as long as he doesn’t freaking walk everyone.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
LOOGY's live on SSS
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
This is true...
too bad there’s no way to get a bigger sample… like clicking the “career” tab.
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 15, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
suck on it.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
herp derp
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
insert personal attack here
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
"you're acting like fang"
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
i'm just going to say it now.
you’re an asshole.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He also has career numbers you could look at.
But if you’re trying to be optimistic, it’s probably best that you don’t.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
OH MY GOD I JUST POSTED THEM BELOW THIS
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
lol Sorry
I’m running a little slow today.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
career 3.42 FIP v lefties
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
rhodes is 2.94 career v lefties
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
Rhodes ?
Where we’re going we don’t need Rhodes
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
i just thought he was a decent comp.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
It's a reference to a line in a movie.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
i find career numbers matter less
When you have played baseball for 20 years
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
because George Romero
was the NIght of the Living Dead (and others) guy
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:03 AM EST up reply actions
So Romero is a cardinal huh.
Or signings this off season have been , Furcal, Schumaker, and JC. Tony loves his veterans and gritty infielders.
Grit != flat out sucking.
As long as they never let Romero face righties, I'm totally okay with the signing.
He’s definitely more Tony Fossas than Steve Kline.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Furcal isn't really a gritty veteran
but yeah, Mo seems to have taken a lot of TLR with him.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
fucking eh.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 15, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
beltran has five suitors?
as per hotstove just now….rockies, cards and blue jays plus 2 unknown. does that sound right? they didn’t mention anything about cards making a formal offer, fwiw, but saw him as a very good fit w/us. said blue jays turf would tear up his knees.
red sox are said to be in and they need a RF'er
My guess is the Rockies get Cuddyer, the Jays get Darvish, the Red Sox get Beltran (3 years), and the Cards wind up with Ross.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Bu- But!
I don’t want Ross with his sub .320 OBP and questionable defense.
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
He's a more sensibly temporary starter for Craig
and he can platoon with Jay vs. lefties. He actually makes a lot of sense for the Cards, though they have yet to be linked to him.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
i guess he might be a plan C
Not really intrigued by him. He’s been below replacement in each of the last 2 seasons.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
id make a friends joke
but fuck friends…
(clap clap clapclapclapclap)
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:05 AM EST up reply actions
Posnanski on Pujols
don’t remember seeing it linked
http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/12/12/the-real-albert-pujols/
I read it the other day. I like Posnanski only read a few article but have liked what I've read so far
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 15, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
That post was just a complete and utter grammatical travesty. Damn you IMA!
(I think this is the first time I’ve commented/spoken in the third person. Feels weird but justified none the less)
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 15, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Do we know yet who won the auction for Darvish?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 15, 2011 6:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
no, and we won't officially until next Tuesday, from what i read
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
MLB needing to stretch things out during long
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 15, 2011 7:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
same
as per SI: (sorry, don’t know how to block quote)
“If they take the offer — they have until 5 p.m. ET on Dec. 20 to accept or reject it — the bidder then has 30 days to finalize a contract with Darvish. If no deal is reached, Darvish returns to the Fighters for another season, and no money changes hands.”
by westsidecards on Dec 15, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Here, without the spaces
< blockquote > put whatever you want blockquoted here < /blockquote >
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
thank you
i’ll try next time, but i’ll probably spaz anyway. it’s just a sad situation :(
by westsidecards on Dec 15, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
you can also just use the quotation mark icon
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Highlight what you want to blockquote and hit the " button
you can also just use the quotation mark icon
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 15, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
Testicles. That is all.
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
Ryan Theriot signs new deal with Cardinals, includes 10 year personal services contract
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
“personal services contract” always sounds sex related
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:08 AM EST up reply actions
thanks...and i JUST noticed the formatting guidelines. told you this was sad!
by westsidecards on Dec 15, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
it's alright,
I still don’t know how to properly post a link or a picture
(Don’t particularly care to learn)
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
Is copy/pasting not the proper way
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 15, 2011 7:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
thats what i do
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
OT
But hahahahaha, Hornets GM now saying he pulled the plug on the CP3 to Lakers deal.
What a load of crap
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 15, 2011 7:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I thought he was going to the Clippers?
I can’t keep all of this straight.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
He is now yea
but the NBA, temporarily owners of the Hornets, put the kabosh on it twice. And then once more blocked a trade to the Clippers. NOW there’s an official trade to the Clippers that has been approved. Hornets GM is just trying to cover for Stern’s BS shenanigans.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Pulled was a poor word choice
Nixed
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 15, 2011 7:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
David Stern must have kidnapped his family.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
what a stupid sport
weird because no one said anything about this a couple days ago when it happened.
How long does it take?
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:09 AM EST up reply actions
LoMoGoHoRo 4-0
LoMoMarlins Logan Morrison
Silk shirts may not be cool but damn if they dont feel unbelievable on your skin #NoHomoJustLoMo
love the hashtag
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 15, 2011 7:12 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
By signing Furcal to two years,
Don’t you need to sign a shadow middle-infielder? Especially if you don’t think you have anyone in AAA that you could realistically promote? Because you have to figure the guy will miss half of his games.
But, it is bad roster construction to carry too many middle-infielders. Backup middle-infielders are always crappy hitters — if they could hit and play middle-infield, they would start.
So, maybe signing Skip was part of the package for signing Furcal. He is probably better than Kosma at 2B (including offense and defense). He is not a bad 5th OF.
I know he is bad at the positions we most need him to play, but perhaps the thinking was that in one roster spot you can have backups for four positions. And you have to have the extra middle-infield backup because you signed a starter who is effectively half a player.
Play ball!
Yes, but when Furcal goes down
Then you have Green and Descalso. Who is the backup?
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Dec 15, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Are you asking who is third at SS on the depth chart right now?
"He probably misses his old glasses."
That's part of it.
But (trying to make sense of a move I don’t like), I was trying to picture the team without Furcal. Because it probably will be for half of the next two years.
Someone has to play 2B and someone has to play SS. Over half a year, they can’t play every game. Someone has to be able to be the backup 2B, at least, with the real 2B sometimes sliding over to SS.
Maybe when you sign a player like Furcal, you have to build in an emergency backup. Maybe that is logic for carrying s 5th OF who can do that.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Dec 15, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
They'd probably just call a random MIF up from Memphis
that’s what they pretty much do every year.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
Skip is better than Kosma,
And no one knows about Jackson yet.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Dec 15, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
I don't like it
There is just not much to call up in case of emergency — I would not be sure that our options in Memphis, this year, are actually MLB replacement level.
So you need a cheap 5th OF. So you need someone who can be the other half of Rafael Furcal.
If you sign Punto (or any other real middle-infielder), you are still going to have to sign a 5th OF. Maybe you don’t think Chambers is ready, or that he needs to play everyday to improve.
So, you sign Skip.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Dec 15, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
I... guess.
I’m not real sure how concerned they are at being three deep at both SS and 2B to start the season, but I also don’t know why you’d give JC Romero a guaranteed MLB contract, so whatevs.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
Has the team bus been in an accident?
How many backups do you need?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 15, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
skip can "play" second
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
I appologize if this has been mentioned earlier
but the WWL has a nice article about David Freese up…hometown hero etc…Just nice to see one of our own get his dues on a national scale
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 15, 2011 7:42 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
...
On the surface, Freese is referring to his three alcohol-related arrests in the past nine years
i thought there were only two? jeez.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
also a decent article about Jeff Luhnow
and the horrible state of the astros farm system over the last decade
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 15, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
wow the bit about holliday offering to be his mentor...i was unaware of that
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I was too until Holliday was on the radio a couple days ago talking about it.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's pretty cool to pay it forward if that's wast he's doing
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 15, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
and yet people constantly dog Matt
I dont get it
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:13 AM EST up reply actions
I think it's more of a with Pujol$ here he just didn't get full recognition he deserved
And he’s a kind of low key guy so that doesn’t help him, but maybe he’ll step up in the speaking up dept now
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 16, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
actually this is a really great article. it gives a lot of insight as to how players think while they're up to bat, how they make immediate adjustments.
very cool.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
ESPN is only mostly horrible
not ALL of it is garbage
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 15, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
Their internet writers, for the most part,
are far better than the tv commentators.
I know
I have a lot more respect for holliday, not that I did not love him before, he may be in “favorite player” stratosphere now though
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 15, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
This is kind of amazing...
I mean, CC had a 4.83 ERA during his career with the Blue Jays…
Sign Roy O
awesome
easy to forget he spent 6 years there
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 15, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
I remember their being some hype about him while he was with them.
He just never seemed to be able to put it all together like he did here.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
There was a lot of hype from Gammons especially (New England connection).
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
this is really kind of sad
Chris Carpenter’s place among Blue Jay pitching leaders:
Wins: 11th, 49.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
The Jays do have somewhat of an excuse only being around for 35-ish years
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Imagine Doc and Carp in the same rotation
circa 2005
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 15, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
49 wins would rank 50th in Cardinals history
Right below Joe Magrane!
Our 11th most winning pitcher (Slim “Scatter” Sallee" has been dead for 61 years.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
ohh wow...
that’s painful
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 15, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
haha tallet
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Slim Scatter Sallee
im not sure which one of those nicknames is the actual name…
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
sigh. i sort of wish this whole thing would just blow over already
Joe Strauss @JoeStrauss
And BTW, there’s more follow-up re: Pujols in Friday P-D. His former manager offers some blunt, compelling stuff. Thought it “unavoidable.”
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
ha..
JoeStraussJoe Strauss
Stay up late. #developing
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
not a fake block quote.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
see that's what strauss is making it sound like
but la russa has always said pujols is the best player he’s ever managed. i think la russa’s comments are going to be blunt about the FO, not pujols.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I mean it was "unavoidable"
If someone else was going to offer Pujols 10/250, it was unavoidable that he would leave. I think we all knew that.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
i hope not
the cardinals did give him tens of millions of dollars over three decades
that would be a rude parting gift
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure of that
he was on mike and mike after pujols signed with the angels, stated that if you look back the recent track record of the front office, with the holliday signing, the berkman signing, and all the trades, that they were committed to winning, but they weren’t a team that can pony up 254 dollars.
Grit != flat out sucking.
This would indicate you may be right
JoeStrauss Joe Strauss
TLR on AP: “I think he made a mistake when he said it wasn’t about the money.” More in Friday P-D; up later @stltoday.
53 minutes ago
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 15, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
i believe this here is the call
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7334856
Grit != flat out sucking.
he added a minute later...
cause im pretty lonely :-(
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:17 AM EST up reply actions
Strauss is a Jag Bag
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 15, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
he kind of reminds me of a prawn from district 9
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 15, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
crab people?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Aw things just keep getting betterrrrr
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I read that article.
Wasn’t anything blunt or compelling about it.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 16, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
How long before Jon Jay is playing for Miami?
Damn, that kid loves his hometown.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 8:27 PM EST reply actions
Can we package Jay and Jared for Hanley?
Would we be able to throw in Romero to sweeten the pot or does he actually have to play a game for us first?
by mick311 on Dec 15, 2011 8:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
OT: question for college students/recent grads
do students use laptops/notebooks etc. to take notes in class? We’re about the shop for laptops for my son and were trying to decide what to get. Thanks in advance.
youneverknow
I recommend a smart girl and xerox machine
by Action Jaxon on Dec 15, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
I did
but I was in the minority, most of my classmates just used pens and paper
The ones that did used smaller laptops, 13.1 inch monitors, although I used a 17 inch, I do not recommend that though
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 15, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
I do whenever I can
but I type fast and write really slow…. if you can write fast there’s no real point in bringing a laptop to class.
Don't say hi to me.
Sometimes, but most don't.
I think it’s more common in certain classes, like Comp Sci maybe.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, this. It kind of depends on the class.
when I was taking all my core classes at Georgia and the classes were 100+, almost everyone brought laptops. Not so much in the smaller classes. I guess it depends.
by mick311 on Dec 15, 2011 9:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i think i've only ever had one computer science professor who didn't say laptops are banned from class
CS isn’t about learning how to use windows xp
Crap, I knew that'd either be a good example or terrible example.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 15, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
At WUSTL I'm the only kid who doesn't bring my laptop to class
Most of the big lecture halls have power outlets at each seat so you can plug in, and wifi in the room.
One of my professors did get pretty mad about it, and yelled at kids to close it if he thought they weren’t paying attention. Some of the others were good enough to browse reddit but still pay enough attention to answer his questions and appease him.
For me, taking handwritten notes helps me remember things much better. Sometimes I can’t even read the notes I take, but when I write them down I’ll mostly remember it.
Most of the CS courses have notes in pdfs or powerpoints already done up for the class so it isn’t really required to take any, though.
I always brought my laptop to class.
Most students did.
by mick311 on Dec 15, 2011 9:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think 90% of kids who bring their laptops into class
do so to play games and go on facebook. But a laptop is essential for homework/essay.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no
they use them to play on facebook in class
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
I resent this
I used mine to play on VEB
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
there's children on here scoot
that’s sick
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't since even the lightest of laptops is kind of a pain to lug around
If you’ve got the money, I think Ipads are great for taking notes in class. Sadly I cannot afford one.
i did on occasion, but i found bringing my laptop to the library/etc to be much more important than using it in class
i think i typically used notes.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 15, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
written notes, that is.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 15, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
To answer seriously
I did for my first two years of college and I just browsed the internet all the time and still got A’s because the classes were easy and I’m a genius
Once I got into my advanced Econ classes, though, I stopped taking my computer because I wasn’t paying enough attention in class and my grades started to slip because of it.
Still invaluable for homework and everything else though
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Yeah
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
rui, i feel like you and i now have a greater connection
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
VEB, stltoday, twitter, porn, DVD watching, facebook
you know, all those essentials for normal college students.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
thanks for the great info
I had to duck out almost as soon as I asked the question, but I’ve read the responses today and have a sense that he shouldn’t really need a laptop in class. I think the distraction factor (fb, etc.) would be a factor w/ him too.
youneverknow
corey patterson after he competes his 4-year extension
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i know I really dislike a comment when I immediately look to my gun cabinet
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 15, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
you have a gun cabinet
how many guns?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
so you must know a lot of people with gun cabinets
eh? eh????
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
my dad probably owns like 20-30 guns
he lives in missouri, though
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
does he hunt people?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
PJs dad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbHH5xZcVvQ
because TLR
by punchinjudy on Dec 15, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
tlr?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
what is it?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
i liked it
had soem good stuff in it…and helps if you know the 80s well
because TLR
by punchinjudy on Dec 15, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Badgers?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 15, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
today we will see if poodles can fly
oh man
because TLR
by punchinjudy on Dec 15, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
in texas, the word for "gun cabinet" is "house."
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 15, 2011 11:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Gun safes are popular household accessories.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
many guns, to necessitate an entire cabinet.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I am the angel of death.
The time of purification is at hand.
by mattisnotfrench on Dec 16, 2011 2:25 AM EST up reply actions
david rong
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
schumaker.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Lefty Relievers in 2011.
Splits vs. Lefties:
Mark Rzepcynski – .163/.256/.221/.477
JC Romero – .231/.318/.231/.549
Raul Valdes – .296/.387/.370/.757
Trever Miller – .276/.382/.414/.796
Arthur Rhodes – .245/.344/.528/.872
Bryan Tallet – .261/.370/.696/1.066
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 10:03 PM EST reply actions
vs. Righties
Mark Rzepcynski – .275/.365/.383/.748
JC Romero – .322/.429/.508/.937
Raul Valdes – .286/.375/.476/.851
Trever Miller – .346/.406/.615/1.022
Arthur Rhodes – .288/.312/.534/.846
Bryan Tallet – .410/.467/.641/1.108
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
sample sizes?
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 15, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
PA's
Rzepcynski – 118 vs. left, 138 vs. right
Romero – 46,70
Valdes – 31,34
Miller – 68,35
Rhodes – 61,77
Tallet – 27,46
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
This is really funny
http://cheadlesucks.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-being-sick-when-you-are-adult-sucks.html
Really good blog overall.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
fantastic
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 15, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
...
http://cheadlesucks.blogspot.com/2010/12/super-bowl-halftime-show-will-suck.html
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
heh
The Puppy Bowl, but instead of playing football, the puppies fight each other viciously, like they would at Michael Vick’s house.
by Action Jaxon on Dec 15, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
I watched puppybowl last year
almost the whole fucking then…then part of the replay
it was so messed up
I coudlnt beleive it was actually a thing.
then it was like YAY PUPPYBOWL!!!! after it turned my brain into (more) jelly (than it already is)
p.s. they also have kittens
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:21 AM EST up reply actions
Hilarious work around the empty net, Blues.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 15, 2011 10:28 PM EST reply actions
i'm excited to be able to go home and, you know, watch them.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Aren't you up in Kirksville?
They don’t show the games?
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 15, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
they don't have television there
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
they showed all the games when i lived on campus.
but now that i have my own cable the cable company basically picks and chooses which blues games to show. i’ve probably only gotten about 15 thus far. and if anything else is on (mizzou, etc), that’ll take precedence over the blues.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Had no idea
I knew that Mizzou got the nod over the Blues, but didn’t realize everything else did too.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 15, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
i mean, it's pretty much only mizzou.
but they’ll they’ll randomly not show the game in favor of a football rerun or something at times. very frustrating.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Just saw that Chris Pronger is out for the season with concussion problems.
NHL has a serious problem.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, its weird how much worse its gotten lately
what happened?
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:23 AM EST up reply actions
i need to catch a couple games this year
how about Elliot?
out of nowhere
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:22 AM EST up reply actions
Since VEB is the place to go for fashion advice...
What should I wear to The Nutcracker ballet tomorrow?
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 15, 2011 10:41 PM EST reply actions
I wore jeans, lavender dress shirt, black skinny tie, gray suit jacket when I went this past weekend
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
do you own non skinny ties?
if so, how do you determine when to wear which?
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Of course, I own lots
I try to accent the dress shirt. Like if it’s a white dress shirt, I like to wear a colored tie with white dots/stripes or whatever
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
name your top 5 favorite ties
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
garcia ties were some of my favorite
because TLR
by punchinjudy on Dec 15, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
i love Garcias
i have a lot of the classic ones and i still wear those, the “new” ones that aren’t really his artwork are way too garish and not nearly as pretty.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 15, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
how do you know when to tuck or not tuck
i usually err on the side of not tucking
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Just put it in your waistband dude
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Dec 15, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
...
…
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
my rule is if it's something i have to shave for
tuck in
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
do you like keep a log of all your outfits that you wear every day
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No, I'm just not an idiot who only has a 2 hour memory
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
dear diary
today my shoes matched my skinny tie fabulously
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
No you are
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
What are the names of your twin poodles?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 15, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
oooh, that's a nice ensamble
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
a ballerina
/i have no idea what this means
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 15, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
This.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Dec 15, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
He needs to button down a couple more
And wear gold chains, but that’s a good start.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 15, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
also white patent leather shoes with a gold buckle
maybe a top hat
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 15, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
Men should just never talk to each other about clothes,
unless its regarding baseball jerseys.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rui stopped been a man a long time ago
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At least my mom doesn't steal my facebook account
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Yeah she's too busy having sex with various partners
in ways that are comical to VEB members.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Ixnay on the erseysjay
RiverRat might hear you.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Funny story about the Mitchell and Ness jerseys
My gf stayed up to buy me the same jersey I ended up buying for myself. So she returned it. She has since had to return 3 other items that she bought for my Christmas present because I keep buying them for myself.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 16, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe you should stop buying things for yourself
until Dec. 26? I learned this lesson about 4 years into my marriage, when my wife threw a new baseball glove at me when I came home one day, two weeks before Christmas, and showed her the new glove I had just bought. She gave me the look, and told me this was the third year in a row that I had done this to her. So I now stop buying new things for myself between turkey day and Xmas…but I let her know what she can get me, whenever I see something I want.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 16, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Amazon wish list helps here too.
She knows what you want, you know what not to buy. Until the first week of January, at least.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 16, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
semi-formal.
and don’t expect the ballerinas to hook-up with you, lozano.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Semi-formal is the magical word I wanted to hear
And I don’t be trying anything with the ballerinas.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 16, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
dress like a cowboy
(like people from the country do for some reason)
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:24 AM EST up reply actions
$13-ish million?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
where would that put the payroll?
Right at 100M?
off the top of my head, I'd say right at 110
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
to expand on that a little...
I think it was at 84 million. Add 7 million for Furcal. add about 4.5 million for Motte & K-Mac arbitration, add 1.5 for Skippy. That makes 97 million
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Cot's contracts has us at almost 87M after signing Furcal.
I would post a link if I knew how.
what bro
you did huge analysis via blackberry, but you can’t control see, control vee?
by prophetjohn on Dec 15, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
out of my element
on a desktop. I’m actually at a library doing research for school.
Just hit the link button that looks like a chain to the left of the tree
Make sure you hit the “open in new window” box also
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 16, 2011 6:45 AM EST up reply actions
they aren't factoring in any of the players that will be making league minimum,
or close to it. Also not factoring Schu, K-Mac, or Motte. They won’t update it until actual salaries are determined.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Oh...
I was trying to make a case that we could sign both Cespedes and Beltran. Not gonna happen apparently.
I've seen this mentioned several times.
I guess I’ve been following this team to long to even think that it was a remote possibility to land both. This team rarely wins a bidding war.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
My guess is that we get neither.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
True.
I was just thinking that it set up outfield nicely for the next few years. Beltran in right until Craig got healthy then put Beltran in CF. Have Cespedes start in the minors and when he is ready, trade one of Jay/Craig. Cespedes in CF, Beltran in RF, Craig/Jay 4th OF. When Beltran’s contract is up Craig/Jay can fill in RF until Oscar is ready.
sounds about right.
I was figuring 97 without Romero. Also need to factor in Zack Cox who is getting 850,000. Somewhere between 97 and 99 I guess.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
which is kind of not good if we want to get beltran
if we want to max out at 110 we better hope he has no market or dewallet is going to have to pony up a few more dollar bills.
The more I hear about Beltran,
the less it sounds like we’ll get him, unless he really really wants to play here. Lots of teams interested including the Red Sox….and like I said, the Cardinals don’t win very many bidding wars. I think Carlos winds up getting a 3 year deal, something the Cardinals will be very reluctant to do.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 15, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
I'm thinking if they don't sign Beltran
They pocket some of it and wait for the trade deadline to make a move or 2.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 15, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Dry powder!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 15, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
yeah we'd be hearing a lot about that for sure
But I look at the market and don’t see why that wouldn’t be the right play.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 15, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
By my count
Carp 10.5M
Waino 9.0
Jaime 3.3
Lohse 11.9
Westb 8.5
Motte(arb est) 1.8
KMac (arb est) 1.5
Lynn .5
Boggs .5
Rzep .5
Salas .5
Romero (est) 1.5
Lego 17.0
Jay .5
Craig .5
Skip 1.5
Freese 1.5
Furcal 7.0
Greene .5
DanD .5
Puma 12.0
Yadi 7.0
Cruz/Anderson .5
23 players at 97.4M
2011 payroll was about 110M
A modest payroll boost to 115M leaves room to add 17.6M
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 15, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
just go to
Cot’s and look. No need to guess
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
one of you creative types
should re-write Why don’t you get a job minus profanity in ode to Pujols
because TLR
#PujolsCriesWhen profanity is used in musical parodies about him
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
if you read the lyrics to that song
made me think of MO and Pujols
because TLR
by punchinjudy on Dec 15, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
how come facebook is only weird for some peoples profiles?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
I thought you were deactivating the account
After your mom hacked it and saw your Penny pitch fx analysis.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 15, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I re-activated it
and by “it” i mean your mom.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
well then VEP must be a necromancer!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I do like Rush
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 16, 2011 6:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
because you have to activate timeline.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
Because
My cousin posted this on her Facebook page
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 16, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
It's gone now
what was it?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 16, 2011 6:59 AM EST up reply actions
Hmmm.
Yoga gal and a yoga-enjoying cat. An enjoyable 2 1/2 minutes, gone now.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 16, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
And by "Penny pitch fx analysis"
I mean porn
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 15, 2011 11:04 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
YU
DShulman_ESPN Dan Shulman
NY Post is reporting the #bluejays are believed to have have made the highest bid for Yu Darvish. Perhaps in excess of $40M. #jays
then he says
DShulman_ESPN Dan Shulman
Nothing confirmed on Darvish, and we may not know till Tuesday. If it’s true, it’s the beginning of a new era for the #jays #bluejays
so err who knows
I keep find myself refreshing MLBTR
expecting to see that the Jays or Rangers posted him, but every time i don’t see that something inside me says that maybe we got him.
/wish i was joking
Haha
at 40 million to just talk to him, I think y’all are better off not getting him.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 16, 2011 3:13 AM EST up reply actions
nah,
the old era for the Blue Jays was pretty stupid as well
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:28 AM EST up reply actions
jesus that's a lot of money.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Things Albert Pujols said before going to Anaheim?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Dec 15, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 18 recs
I love comments that show up rec'd.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeec
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 15, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
funnily enough, "yu darvish" means "vernon wells money"
In japanese.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 15, 2011 11:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
IMO that's not a terrible number.
Less than Matsuzaka for a pitcher twice as good.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I agree, but I'm kind of waiting to see what the contract looks like.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 16, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Your daily December Christmas song:
Once upon a time, Bob Geldof had an idea. He was going to write a single to raise money for famine relief in Ethiopia. So he got together with Midge Ure, wrote a nice (if a bit overwrought) little tune and invited some friends over to record it. The result was:
Band Aid – Do They Know its Christmas?
The 1984 original became the biggest selling single in UK Singles Chart history, selling a million copies in the first week alone. It stayed at Number 1 for five weeks, becoming Christmas number one, and sold more than 3.5 million copies domestically. It remained the highest selling single in UK chart history until 1997
Geldof would use the momentum from the single to put on a little show in 1985 called Live Aid and the concept of his little ditty would be later used for We Are The World.
Also, look at how young these guys look!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 15, 2011 11:55 PM EST reply actions
God I hate Bob Geldof
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
How do you feel about
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 15, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Not me
I like Mondays, and I like the job he did in PF The Wall as Pink.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 16, 2011 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
He just seems like such a cocky jerkwad
I never listened to the Mondays and kind of hate The Wall. He had a lot of commentary in some PF documentary I watched.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 16, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Different strokes
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 16, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
Hey man you're a Meddle fan, I can't begrudge you
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 16, 2011 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
LOVE THAT!
Man, can’t remember all the hours I spent listening to that album. Like, probably 3 times as much as Dark Side.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 16, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah the first time I heard Echoes was like holy shit
My personal favorite is More though. Meddle’s probably tied with Saucerful and Atom Heart Mother for my second favorite.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 16, 2011 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
And they wrote and recorded it in 2 weeks
Kind of scary.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 16, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
I love Set the Controls from Saucerful
One of my Floyd top five.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 16, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
did they ever stop to think
that maybe they didnt care about Christmas?
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:30 AM EST up reply actions
Every year we make a trek out to Greenvile IL for a christmas tree
We stopped at a place to get eat breakfast and this song came up. So naturally, I started singing along with the chorus. My wife was shocked out that I heard the song before, and utterly amazed that I knew the words. She claimed to have never heard it before. II tried to explain that it was huge back in the the 80s and she must not have paid attention. She looked it up on wikipedia, and then decided the reason I knew and she didn’t was because I lived in england between 86-90.
I conceded the point, but I’m pretty sure it was huge here too.
Grit != flat out sucking.
I hope CINs extension talks with Phillips
Fall through…we should have a ton of money to spend next offseason and he would be an awesome addition at 2nd base.
by mick311 on Dec 16, 2011 12:08 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'd be hard pressed not to boo him even in a Cardinals uniform.
I do appreciate the fact he knows what he’s doing unlike another loud mouth in our division.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 16, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
He did give the Cards props
After the WS win. Which took away most of my negative feelings towards him. Cueto, otoh, still wanna kick him. Even though he looks like the Predator.
by Cheeseballs on Dec 16, 2011 1:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Who is this J.C. Romero and why doesn't he hit 30 HRs a year at a premium position?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
by CodyG on Dec 16, 2011 12:42 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Cespedes and his agent, Adam Katz of Wasserman Media Group, are starting negotiations at “Chapman money,” one general manager tells Passan, in reference to Aroldis Chapman’s six-year, $30.25MM contract with the Reds
/block quote
I knew they would use the Chapman contract. We should be in on Cespedes at this price.
by purple_haze on Dec 16, 2011 12:42 AM EST via mobile reply actions
is he going to be pitching?
do they know that chapman isnt worth that money quite yet?
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 3:32 AM EST up reply actions
Dead VEB is dead
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 16, 2011 1:16 AM EST reply actions
oh so fink sends you johnny walker, but you can't send me brownies?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 16, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
I called UPS and they told me that they opened the box and it was just a picture some ginger giving the middle finger
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 16, 2011 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
How does it go...
Black, red, blue, green?
by Cheeseballs on Dec 16, 2011 1:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh man.
That blue… Must be worth Pujols money
by Cheeseballs on Dec 16, 2011 1:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Really tho
That’s some pricey stuff
by Cheeseballs on Dec 16, 2011 2:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I just can't fathom the Romero deal.
What in his repertoire remotely suggests he deserves a major league deal, and why was it so important to sign him this early.
Christ, even Miguel Batista wasn’t guaranteed a spot on the roster, and he’s arguably better.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
I'm sorry
but Pujols made most of the rules on this, not during the season etc…supposedly got mad that other players re-signed at end of season and he hadn’t, and mad that they signed others? when he said build a winner?
because TLR
i know that most athletes
say it’s nto about the money, maybe I’m blinded as a cardinal fan. and even though he had no scandal for 11 years and is a decent guy, I don’t think he handled this right.
I don’t think other athletes have put the demands he did…the cards may have not had the money or years at the end, but they did try to surround him with talent, and did try to keep him without handcuffing the team.. the more I read the bigger i think his Ego is, and more meh I become
because TLR
the other day people here on VEB were discussing
why bother scouting Japan (for various reasons) when you could put that money into the Dominican…
Which is something ive thought about for a while now.
I was discussing it on another forum where I said find me 5 players from Japan as good as Pujols, Manny, Pedro, Vlad, Ortiz
which you obviously cannot
then I thought heck, can you name 5 Japanese players who were better than Rafael Furcal?
GO!
Ichiro
Matsui
DiceK? I dunno about that
Nomo dont know much about him at all he was a little before I cared
Taguchi (HR off the mets! ;-))
so can VEB come up with 5?
upon further inspection...
these are loafers
(also it was earlier in this thread)
by jealousblues on Dec 16, 2011 2:47 AM EST up reply actions
?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 16, 2011 2:49 AM EST up reply actions
Hey vep
where’s that Penny Loafer pitch f/x analysis?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 16, 2011 2:50 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Rui bait.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 16, 2011 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
the list
is pretty much ichiro, matsui, and nomo. daisuke was really only effective his first two years, and even then they weren’t anything spectacular.
looking at the list of japanese mlb players, the vast majority have been pitchers.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 16, 2011 4:03 AM EST up reply actions
Kaz Sasaki?
i know he only played 4 years, but he was really good.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 16, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Prince Fielder
I know everyone is pooh-poohing the idea, but the moves the Cards have made are perfectly consistent with making a play for Fielder. The signing of Schumaker (who allegedly can play CF) rather than Punto (who cannot) for the same money, the savings on Romero over Gonzalez, the offer to Beltran at a price low enough that if Carlos says yes, we can justify not signing Fielder, the Rule 5 pick-up in the OF. Holliday reportedly told Boras that this was a great fit for Fielder and now that Milwaukee has pursued options that assume he is not coming back, who is our competition? Rumor is that Texas has made an offer, but with CJ Wilson gone elsewhere, their priority is pitching.
We know they can't offer more than 10/220
Frankly, I can’t imagine paying Fielder for 10 years and I can’t imagine paying Fielder in excess of $15-18 a year. I seriously doubt the cards have any interest. If he can get done for 6/100 ish then ok
Just win
He is looking for a 7-year deal.
. . .But Boras may advise him to take a shorter deal so that he comes on the market again at the same age Pujols did.
So he wouldn't cry over a 5 year deal?
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
haha good
i think we would in a heartbeat, but i think he’d hold out for 20MM+ AAV if it was a 5 year deal.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 16, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
#Pujols cried
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 16, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
i hope that's a typo, because that's WAY too much money
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo, Trade for Peter Bourjos
by tehzachatak on Dec 16, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Cubs are at least feigning that they are in
sign skip, skip nick #illogic SIGN CARLOS
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 16, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Line-Up with Fielder
1. Furcal SS Both
2. Jay/Craig CF L/R
3. Fielder 1B Left
4. Holliday LF Right
5. Berkman RF Switch
6. Freese 3B Right
7. Molina C Right
8. D’so/Greene 2B L/R
9. PITCHER
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