Aramis Ramirez, the Milwaukee Brewers, and the basically average team
by DanUpBaby on Dec 13, 2011 9:00 AM EST
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Depending on when you're reading this the Milwaukee Brewers have signed or are about to sign Aramis Ramirez, for three years and $34-37 million. This is a solid deal for the Brewers, I think—Ramirez will be 34 next year and sucked at 32, but for the price of Kyle Lohse they've got a guy who's had a 130 OPS+ two years out of three and a 125 OPS+ seven. It's a gamble because he's old, but it strikes me as a good gable.
It's an especially good gamble because the Milwaukee Brewers were historically, hysterically terrible at third base. Casey McGehee, a butcher on defense, hit 13 home runs in 155 games and ended up with a line of .223/.280/.346, which even in the Year Of The Pitcher was worth an OPS+ of 69. That's a win below replacement if you think he was somehow above-average on defense this year, like Total Zone does; elsewhere, it gets uglier still.
What's worse, he was the strongest third baseman they had—the other guys at the position, who had a total of 92 plate appearances at the position and included, for one 0-3 game, our pal Felipe Lopez, hit .146. The Brewers weren't just at replacement level, they were up to two wins below it—Prince Fielder might have been worth 5.2 wins above a replacement first baseman in 2011, but Aramis Ramirez was worth 5.6 wins above Casey and the McGeheetones.
That's the one consolation in this whole Prince Fielder situation for the Brewers—they were terrible at other positions. Sea Bass Gonzalez? Not an upgrade a lot of places, but he can hit like 2011 shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt while fielding like either Alex Gonzalez, which is a significant improvement. If they get a good-enough season from Mat Gamel, or whichever at-least-replacement-level type they run out at first base, they'll have done a good job of replacing most of Fielder's production on the cheap. (Of course, if they'd managed to replace Casey McGehee with anybody at all and resigned Prince Fielder they'd be in better shape still, but at this point I don't feel like needling another team for losing their franchise first baseman.)
That's what's good about being a flawed team like the Milwaukee Brewers were a flawed team—what held them back can be replaced cheaply, because it's the first win or two at third base and shortstop. The Cardinals were terrible up the middle, but they weren't as terrible, which has made things a little more difficult. Here's what the Cardinals can do to make up some of those Pujols wins on the cheap:
- Sign Rafael Furcal. Done! Ryan Theriot was, per Baseball-Reference, a perfect zero—483 plate appearances as a $3 million replacement level player, just waiting to be replaced by someone who is not that. This was the lowest hanging mediocrity on the 2011 team, and the Cardinals have plucked it.
- Move Lance Berkman to first base. Also done! Berkman is unlikely to be as brilliant a hitter as he was in 2011—he set a career high in OPS+, after all—but at first base he seems less likely to give up a win on defense. Allen Craig and company don't have to hit as well as Berkman did if they can be, collectively, an above-average right fielder.
- Push the replacement-level innings further down in the pitching staff. Last year Kyle McClellan was, as a starter and a reliever, the pitcher of last resort in St. Louis; he started 17 times while the Cardinals couldn't get anybody else to do it, and when he returned to the bullpen after the rotation shuffle it was to backstop a bullpen that had seen sub-replacement-level performance from multiple pen suspects. Somebody has to do that job—it probably won't be McClellan, since he's about to cost real money [late night editor's note—son of a]—but he shouldn't pitch 142 innings.
Adam Wainwright will be the primary driver there; the Cardinals' impressive depth in the bullpen, short of another Ryan Franklin-style disaster, will also be crucial.
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WOOO!
Casey McGehee, a butcher on defense, hit 13 home runs in 155 games
23% of HRs in the same game! Against the Cards! Which ruined the seaso…..oh, right.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Ya
great… I was semi-excited, but when I read this I now realize we got a bunch of crap. At least we gave up nothing for it, and McGehee did put up 3.1 WAR two years ago (via fangraphs) so he has some upside.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Is Alvaraz that bad at 3B?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Total Zone and UZR say yes, albeit in a small sample size.
He’s definitely below average.
I guess I’d worry more about his bat than his glove. His K rate the last couple of years is alarming, especially when you factor in his decrease in ISO and BABIP. He’s had a difficult time making good contract, so that would worry me if I’m the Pirates.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Ya
I have no issue with his glove, because the bat could be good enough to make him an above-average 1B or better. If he sticks at 3B, that’s just icing.
The problem is, Pedro’s bat was beyond god-awful last year. Like worse than McGehee. Maybe that’s the strategy, odds are one of them will be good.
Anyway, Pedro could turn it around and this year will be a big year for him. Regardless, it’s nice to have insurance, even if apparently the insurance needs to turn it around as well.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Did he have a really debilitating injury last year?
Because he was pretty good in a similar number of PA’s in 2010.
Still, I think that a guy with his walk rate is going to have to strike out a lot less than 30% of the time to be valuable.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Pedro?
He was injured, but sucked before the injury. He actually should walk plenty because of his power, but he was so vulnerable to striking out it didn’t matter.
Honestly, I was kinda miffed about the whole thing. He certainly has talent and is young enough, but it seemed like pitchers adjusted from 2010 to 2011.
Also, one issue Pedro had was getting behind in counts quickly because pitchers would just throw it down the pipe twice and get 0-2 without a swing of the bat. It’s more than just that, but if he gets his swing right (also another problem allegedly – gosh there are alot of problems) Pedro may do alot better if he starts crushing some of the 0-0 fastballs.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
it is what it is
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
It's a bar
They’re required by law to play American Pie, Sweet Caroline, and Don’t Stop Believing on loop, I think.
HEY!
while we do play all three of those songs, its very rare that you will hear all three on the same night!
;-)
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
nice
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 13, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Outfield Options (if Beltran negotiations fall through)
Yesterday I posted a comment about MIF who may become trade targets between now and the trade deadline. Today I have a similar post, but about OF’s. I think that given Craig’s injury, Jay being very streaky, and Schumaker being himself we could definitely be in the market for an OF. Especially if we don’t pick up Beltran in free agency, which I fully support.
If we do decide to trade for an OF, I believe it should be someone who can fill a spot in the OF for years to come. So with that said, here are some options.
Nick Markakis
Age: 28
Position: RF
Salary: $11M
FA: 2014(club option for 2015)
2011 OBP: .351
Career OBP: .361
2011 OPS+: 117
Career OPS+: 117
2011 TotalZone: -4
2011 WAR: 1.9
Some what expensive for the return we would be getting, but I’ve wanted him for a couple of years now. He would slide in nicely in the 2-hole.
Nolan Reimold
Age: 28
Position: LF
Salary: Not yet Arb-eligible
FA: 2015
2011 OBP: .328
Career OBP: .339
2011 OPS+: 113
Career OPS+: 108
2011 TotalZone: -1
2011 WAR: 1.5
Impressive numbers for his price tag, would probably cost to much in prospects since he is a part of their long term picture.
Adam Jones
Age: 26
Position: CF
Salary: 2nd year of Arb
FA: 2013
2011 OBP: .319
Career OBP: .319
2011 OPS+: 114
Career OPS+: 101
2011 TotalZone: -17
2011 WAR: 1.7
Former Gold Glover, still young and pretty cheap. I’m not sure how much of an upgrade he would be over Jay.
Josh Reddick
Age: 24
Position: OF
Salary: not yet arb eligible
FA: 2016
2011 OBP: .327
Career OBP: .290
2011 OPS+: 109
Career OPS+: 86
2011 TotalZone: 8
2011 WAR: 1.6
Had a good year last year, SSS though. BOS is looking for pitching on the cheap though, if we could talk Westbrook or Loshe out of their NTC and eat their salary, we could probably get Reddick in return. Would at least be a guy to fill in until Craig got healthy and then could sub at all 3 spots.
B.J. Upton
Age: 27
Position: CF
Salary: 3rd year of arb, made $4.83M in 2011
FA: 2012
2011 OBP: .331
Career OBP: .342
2011 OPS+: 115
Career OPS+: 105
2011 TotalZone: 0
2011 WAR: 3.8
If he is available, we would have to take a look. He is an above average CF. He is an upcoming FA though, so I would hope to resign him and wouldn’t be willing to give up anything more than Cox or maybe Rosenthal.
Carlos Quentin
Age: 29
Position: RF
Salary: 3rd year of arb, made $5.05 in 2011
FA: 2012
2011 OBP: .340
Career OBP: .346
2011 OPS+: 124
Career OPS+: 116
2011 TotalZone: 7
2011 WAR: 3.2
Another upcoming FA, Sox are rebuilding so I’m sure he’ll be available. Wouldn’t give up a top prospect though.
Shin-Soo Choo
Age: 29
Position: RF
Salary: 2nd year of arb, made $3.98M in 2011
FA: 2013
2011 OBP: .344
Career OBP: .384
2011 OPS+: 105
Career OPS+: 133
2011 UZR: 1
2011 WAR: 1.3
I’m not sure if he would be available if the Indians fell out of it, but he has been very good since he came into the league and it’d be cool to get him.
Denard Span
Age: 27
Position: CF
Salary: $3.3M
FA: 2014(club option for 2015)
2011 OBP: .328
Career OBP: .361
2011 OPS+: 91
Career OPS+: 103
2011 TotalZone: 14
2011 WAR: 2.6
Would take a top prospect to get him I’m sure, but he would definitely provide a very good CF for the foreseeable future. Its hard to give up good young pitching, but I’d have to think about offering Martinez.
Franklin Gutierrez
Age: 28
Position: CF
Salary: $5.06M
FA: 2013(team option for 2014)
2011 OBP: .261
Career OBP: .308
2011 OPS+: 53
Career OPS+: 87
2011 TotalZone: 3
2011 WAR: -0.4
Probably the best defensive CF on this list, not a lot of stick though.
Chris Young
Age: 28
Position: CF
Salary: $5.6M
FA: 2013(club option for 2014)
2011 OBP: .331
Career OBP: .319
2011 OPS+: 103
Career OPS+: 94
2011 TotalZone: 18
2011 WAR: 4.8
If the D-Backs fall out of it, he may become available, but would cost a top prospect. This is another guy I’d consider giving up Martinez for.
Andre Ethier
Age: 29
Position: RF
Salary: Last year of arb, made $7.6M in 2011
FA: 2012
2011 OBP: .368
Career OBP: .364
2011 OPS+: 120
Career OPS+: 123
2011 TotalZone: -8
2011 WAR: 1.3
Upcoming FA. Would not give a top tier guy, but could provide a big boost and good depth.
Cameron Maybin
Age: 24
Position: CF
Salary: Not yet arb eligible
FA: 2015
2011 OBP: .323
Career OBP: .318
2011 OPS+: 103
Career OPS+: 92
2011 TotalZone: 1
2011 WAR: 2.9
Seems like he’s been around for ever, but he’s still only 24. Solid D, improving stick. I don’t know what it might take to get him, but he could become a very good player.
I still think Beltran might be our best option, but there are some guys out there that I would be checking in on if I was Mo. What do you guys think?
by rumors on Dec 13, 2011 9:11 AM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
I think the Cards are pretending they don't need Beltran
but really do need Beltran. He is a short-term fix ala Berkman last season. It all comes down to the price. Absent Beltran, I think the Cards will have to cough up serious prospects to land another bat. Rather not do that. Prefer to overpay Beltran on a 1 or 2 year deal.
Just saw
Luke Scott wasn’t tendered. Injured most of last year, but don’t know what his status is now. I would think he’d be worth a comeback flyer contract.
Luke Scott
Age: 33
Position: LF/1B
Salary: Made $6.4M in 2011
FA: Was non-tendered by Orioles
2011 OBP: .301
Career OBP: .349
2011 OPS+: 92
Career OPS+: 121
2011 TotalZone: -3
2011 WAR: 0.0
Didn’t play a lot last year, not sure if he was injured or on the bench. Could be a bounceback candidate, though his best season so far was spent as a DH and its been awhile since he posted positive defensive numbers.
by rumors on Dec 13, 2011 9:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Probably be a
solid bench option, but if the Cards are actually in on beltran it wouldn’t make a ton of sense.
Something clever...
Now, Brooks Conrad was DFAed....
…can anyone say ’cheap organizational depth"??
:=8)
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
Heads would explode if Luke Scott were on our team
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Would be solid if Cards were shooting a western movie. . . .
Coming in from the field, Shurf Luke Scott to clean up the plate. . . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
I am of the mind...
…that you just pay the premium for a 2 year deal. Short deal is a good deal as long as it is under $30m for 2 years. Couple junky contracts off the books next year continues to give the team flexibility.
by BigJawnMize on Dec 13, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Unless they sign Cespedes
But they are too afraid to make that jump.
Alot of guys I hadn't given much thought too
Thanks for putting together that information! Well done.
Upton
is the only guy I’d even want that are going to be available from this list. Markakis, Choo, Reimold, Jones, Reddick, Choo, Young, Ethier, and Maybin are probably not going to be on the market. Not sure why you would even think that any of those guys would be traded by their respective teams.
I have no interest in Quentin, Gutierrez, or Span. Hell, Cody Ross won’t cost a lot and would likely be better than either of those guys.
I’d kick the tires on Upton, but he’s going to cost a lot, although maybe a little bit less now that stockpiling draft picks won’t be near as fruitful as it used to be due to the caps on spending in the draft. I think he’ll hit 20 homers and maintain his walk rate, and it’s possible that he might have a breakout yet as he’s only 27 years old. He’s one of the best defensive CF in the game over the last 5 seasons. Since 2007, only Michael Bourn has been better.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I like Upton
a lot. It’d be interesting to explore his GRIT factor, since his home stadium is indoors. Everyone knows playing baseball inside is GRITless.
Something clever...
Also he's black
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Black players can be gritty:
See Thurston, Joe.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I dunno man
They always look like they’re having too much fun to be gritty
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
.......wow
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
A steriotype
is never funny. Never. It’s always condescending and ignorant.
not true at all
Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. And they are normally funny when presented in a light hearted way.
Grit != flat out sucking.
It's a satire on the stupid stereotypes anyway
Baseball is funny like that:
[Heyward] draws physical comparisons to Fred McGriff, while his tools are similar to Willie McCovey’s and his approach is comparable to Frank Thomas’.
See, he’s black and good at baseball similar to 3 other black guys who were really dissimilar otherwise!
Not afraid to nitpick
stereotypes are misunderstood cultural differences for the most part
so yeah, there are differences, but they don’t apply in a blanket way like stereotypes are applied.
That's not true
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Also you kind of missed the point of what I was doing
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I was too busy eating sushi and listening to Wilco while driving my volvo to the park to play frisbee with my dog
to really get the joke.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 13, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was too busy with my statistics-based job and dealing with my overbearing mother who wants me to be a doctor
Also, my small weiner
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Dec 13, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm sorry. What's going on here? I was counting my coins and taking my inhaler and
dealing with my overbearing mother who wants me to be a doctor.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
by a fink on Dec 13, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
^ this one is actually true ^
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
at least he married one
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
I would join in here, but I feel too damn guilty all the time to really think I deserve it.
Also I am jealous of all of you guys because you’re taller than me. But don’t worry, I will make up for this by being overly aggressive.
by mattybobo on Dec 13, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
a short, Catholic guy? (guilt + Napoleon complex)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
The short part I got right away
but there are lots of guilt stereotypes, it seems
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Semper Ubi, Sub Ubi
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
not for you
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
He has lots of options. Commando isn't one of them.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
That's what you think
My daughter is taking a nap now (at least I pray she will actually fall asleep this time) and there’s nobody else in the house.
see, guilt seemed german to me.
and short seemed asian.
and overly aggressive seemed rednecky.
so i was confused.
the above post may contain high levels of stereotype, which is known to the state of california to cause cancer and birth defects
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 13, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Rec for the Prop 65 warning.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Yeah, well I don't need to insecure about my height because I smarter than all of you
Now if you’ll excuse me i’m going to watch Woody Allen movie and count my money.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
so you are Polish?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I might be
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
oh shit, now I'm Holliday!
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Are we doing to have to sign Luis Pujols
or are you going to change your SN? :-D
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
shut up, zeppelin's done anyway, whats your excuse?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Sticks
Wait, what does your name refer to?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Not that, lol
I hit cleanup for my high school team for 4 years. Hence, the “four stick”. Not nearly as enlightened as naming myself after a Led Zeppelin tune.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
ha
I always figured you were named after the song too.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Anything about $30 million per year for five years is an affront. . .
Just ask any Dominican wife. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
I was more thinking new york jew
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget to practice your musical instrument playing!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
while being way too quiet and acing every test.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Team America agrees
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
No...he's a class act
white people are gritty
hispanics are passionate or fire-y
asians are inscrutable
Something clever...
White people are only gritty when they suck, or are short.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Was Edmonds considered gritty?
Wasn’t there criticism that he often didn’t give it his all on routine plays?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Reasoning
Red Sox and Reddick: They need MLB SP for cheap, if somebody would eat salary for a pitcher, he could be talked about.
Ethier is an upcoming FA, if the dodgers fall out of the race why would they hold on to him?
Jones and Young are getting expensive and inching towards FA. If their teams fall out of the race, they could listen to offers.
Reimold, Choo, and Maybin probably won’t be available, but like I said they are intriguing.
by rumors on Dec 13, 2011 10:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Point, counter-point:
- Red Sox also need a productive player in RF. Reddick fills that role. Also, pitching? They have Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Wakefield, Andrew Miller, and Dice-K to fill 5 rotation spots, and, even with the loss of Papelbon, they’re loaded in the bullpen. I don’t know why the Red Sox would be looking for pitching. They need to sign David Ortiz and find a RF option for next year — looks to me like that’s Reddick.
- Ethier is an upcoming free agent. The Dodgers are likely to try and extend him long term at some point in the next year. Maybe they deal him at the trade deadline, but that division is so up in the air for next year that they’d be foolish to deal him now, when they’d be selling low due to his injuries and struggles this past season.
- I thought we were talking about trade targets this offseason? Not at next year’s trade deadline. There’s no way the O’s are trading Adam Jones right now. None. And Chris Young is the second or third best position player on that D-Backs squad that just won a division. They have a ready replacement for him in CF but there’s no reason to deal him right now.
- I can think of tons of players who are “intriguing”. I think Dee Gordon and Mike Trout are “intriguing”, but there’s no way in hell either of those guys gets dealt either. So why are we discussing them?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
The Red Sox need starting pitching.
Wakefield is a FA, Andrew Miller is a fifth starter at best and likely a bullpen lefty, and Dice-K is out at least until this summer with TJ surgery.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Wakefield has been a FA every year for the last decade and a half.
Yet he always signs with Boston on a one year deal. This year will be no different.
You’re right, Andrew Miller is a fifth starter. Seems to me that they need a fifth starter.
Looking at the FA market, they’d be better off keeping Reddick and signing a 4th starter than trying to sign a FA right fielder. There’s nobody better than Reddick on the market and he’s cheap for the next couple of seasons.
I don’t see them trading Josh Reddick for a starting pitcher.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Man Miller doesn't even look like a 5th starter to me
He’s basically a 1-real-pitch guy and has bad stats. Seems with that slinging delivery and slurve he’d have a shot as a LOOGY, but I think they’re insane to be counting on him in any respect as a starter.
Not afraid to nitpick
They can re-sign Wakefield and Jamie Moyer.. . . If they don't work out in Fenway . . .
. .. they can anchor the rotation at the Gatesworth. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
counter to your counter
Reddick has been talked about as a possible trade chip, and their GM has been quoted saying he is looking for starting pitching depth.
Ethier will probably not be dealt, could come available as the deadline nears.
I never said that these trades would be made right now, in my post I said these guys could become available between now and the deadline. Young could be available at the deadline, but would probably cost a huge haul.
The 3 guys I named and the 2 guys you named have nothing in common. You named 2 top prospects, my 3 are soon to start earning a lot more money and are not #1 prospects.
by rumors on Dec 13, 2011 11:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't know why we'd need Ethier or Reddick in August
Presumably Allen Craig will be back by May. We could sign Cody Ross or Josh Willingham for a fairly cheap amount rather than trading prospects to get players that we can’t and shouldn’t sign to long term contracts.
The point is that anyone can go on Cot’s Contracts and look at who might be FA next season or in 2013 and then post that they are “intriguing” trade targets, which appears to be what you’ve done. Yet I’ve pointed out that very few of these guys should be factored into the plans for the Cardinals in 2012 because they are likely unavailable to be acquired in the first place.
I’d like to acquire Yu Darvish, Joey Votto, and Zach Greinke. That would make my year. But it’s simply not going to happen.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I did a lot of work to get pissed all over
But if you are curious of my process, I first went and looked at every single roster and created a list of names, I then looked at their offensive and defensive numbers, if they were still on the list, I then looked at their contracts. I am not saying every one of these guys is going to be available, but they could. I see the OF as a place where we don’t have a long-term option at at least one spot. Some of these guys could provide a long-term solution at a premium position. I don’t know what I did to upset you, but in my free time this is what I do. I read VEB, and I look at the Cards weak spots and try to come up with possible solutions. Is there a better site for me to post my thoughts on?
by rumors on Dec 13, 2011 11:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not pissing on your work, I'm asking for clarification and pointing out things I disagree with.
I’m simply saying: All you did was list a bunch of players. But you didn’t give any of this information in any detail:
- Why they would be available (For instance, why is Nolan Reimold in Baltimore’s “long term plans” but Nick Markakis is not, when they are the same age and Markakis is BY FAR the better player? Contract? If so, would he be getting dealt at a discount in value to rid the team of his contract?)
- Why the Cardinals would be interested
- What we would potentially be giving up to acquire said players
- What the potential marginal WAR upgrade is for each of those players vs. what we would be giving up in trade.
As I said, I can list off 20 players off the top of my head that I’d like us to take a look at acquiring. The hard part is deciphering why we should be interested, what value we would give up to get them, and whether the other team is even remotely considering trading those guys.
The last part is key: There’s no way the O’s are interested in dealing any of the players you mentioned. Ditto for Maybin and Young. So we could take 5 players off this list right away.
Assuming the Red Sox want starting pitching for Josh Reddick, who, exactly, would we trade them that they would want? I don’t see us parting with Garcia, Carpenter, or Wainwright, and I don’t see Boston interested in anyone on our current roster except those three guys. They certainly aren’t trading for Kyle Lohse or Jake Westbrook when they could get John Danks and Carlos Quentin for Reddick and some prospects.
This is FanPost material if it is fleshed out in this way. I think the idea is great and you’ve already probably done a lot of the critical thinking necessary, so why omit all that just to fit it in a comment?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
to be fair, the guy's on his blackberry
and i don’t think there should be some requirement that you must do any of the things listed in your 1 through 4 before posting. that requirement’s pretty stringent.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I'm not making it a requirement
Where am I saying that? Sheesh.
If you’re going to do what he’s doing, fine. But don’t get all snippy about it when someone asks some questions about your methodology of listing a bunch of trade targets with very little analysis linked to it.
In my initial comment I outlined all of this, then things apparently got “snippy” when I asked for further analysis. Not sure that has to happen on blog designed for this type of discussion.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Because all i have available to me
Is an old blackberry. I try. All the things you listed I thought could be discussed. Markakis makes 11M while Reimold is on the cheap. I didn’t want to start throwing around a bunch of prospects names in these deals because that always pisses people off. I did all the research work in hopes the community here could discuss it. This site has intelligent posters, and I wanted some discussion instead of telling people straight up who should be dealt, because that causes angst. The marginal WAR increase would of been a great addition, I hadn’t thought about it.
by rumors on Dec 13, 2011 12:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Rumors
I appreciate your efforts. The Cards have three pretty good outfielders in Holliday, Jay and Craig. I would like to see them think big on the trade or free agent front. A blockbuster package for McCutcheon (Adams, Jay, a righty from our bullpen depth, and a top end minor league pitcher other than Miller) or Beltran
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 13, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Ok -- that's fair
I guess I would rather see you allocate all this info and then spool it up into a fanpost if you want to have a discussion about it. That’s the best place to do that, not the main threads, imo.
Also, people only get pissed off about prospect names when you don’t value them properly in a trade. For instance, Pittsburgh wouldn’t trade us McCutchen without us giving up Shelby Miller, but I’ve seen non-Miller trades for McCutchen all over the place when looking at trade targets. Regardless of value, we’re not getting another teams best player without giving up our best prospect in return.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Correct.
I just feel like every person is going to value prospects differently. So it is very hard to talk specifics on trades without people getting upset. For example, I agree that McCutchen would not be dealt unless Miller was involved. Therefore, I would not deal for McCutchen because I value Miller more than McCutchen.
by rumors on Dec 13, 2011 4:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think that as long as you give a reasonable accommodation of value
and explain yourself, this isn’t such a big deal.
I reserve the right to disagree with you, however. /sarcasm
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Are we doing hot stove fanposts this year?
Have I totally missed them?
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Quentin won't be a
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 13, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
crap
Quentin won’t be a FA until 2013, not 2012. He’ll still be arb eligible after next year. Not sure I agree with 4stick on Ross’ cheapness. I think a lot of teams are looking at him, he’ll have options about where he goes, which will likely drive up his price.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 13, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
You are right.
I’m sorry, I put this together late and was using my blackberry. I was then going off that data to write up my thoughts.
by rumors on Dec 13, 2011 11:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Martin Prado
Could someone tell me why no one is considering Martin Prado? I figure he is good for a little bounce back. His bat would look good at 2nd base, he could fill in RF in the interim, and he would go to FA after a couple of years with Kolten Wong ready to take the position. The biggest question mark to me is what it would take to get him, but as mentioned elsewhere Atlanta will be needing a 3Ber and we have a couple of those in our farm system…and he’s not good enough IMO to get any of our legit pitching prospects, but other than that let Atlanta choose a few prospects to their liking.
Prado would require FAR too much return in trade to acquire to make it worthwhile.
Since when do the Braves need a 3B? Did Chipper Jones retire? Has Dan Uggla somehow improved to a plus defender at 2B?
Seems to me that the Braves need Prado far more than they do any third baseman. He provides a ton of utility as he is capable of being 3 WAR or better in LF should his bat regress towards his career numbers, while also being available to fill in at both 2B and 3B for Uggla and Chipper when they need a day off. I’d be surprised if Atlanta didn’t try to extend him to a 3 or 4 year deal right now when he’s coming off an injury plagued down year.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Chipper won't be their long...
but long enough to let a prospect such as Cox develop. I agree that Dan Uggla will never improve to a plus defender, but I doubt that they will move him. Going forward I would see the Braves needing a true 3B such as Cox. If the Braves are open to trading him, why wouldn’t we take a hack at it?
the FAR too much to acquire is the part I’m uncertain about. Do you have any idea what it would take to acquire him as opposed to a B.J. Upton…or just FAR too much?
Prado would require one of our top pitching prospects plus someone like Kolten Wong.
So two B or better prospects, or a B+ prospect coupled with a couple of C prospects. Not because that’s his market value, but because that’s his value to the Braves organization as a utility player who has a good bat.
Chipper has a year left on his deal and an option for 2013. My guess is that he plays both those years unless his production completely falls off cliff because he’s currently sitting on 454 homers and 500 would assure him of the HOF as a 3B.
Dan Uggla is signed through 2015. He is not going to stay at 2B for the next 4 seasons. Considering Freddie Freeman is their 1B of the future, Uggla probably moves to 3B when Chipper retires for the final two years of his contract because that’s where he should be playing right now.
Upton is one year from free agency. Prado is two years. So the value of Prado is higher than the value of Upton (although Upton is quite a bit younger, so his value long term is probably higher if you sign him), especially when you consider how many good CF there are in the big leagues right now compared to the number of players who can post a .340+ wOBA and play 2B, 3B, and either corner OF spot at an above average level.
The reason I’m more interested in Upton is because he’s 27, plays a premium defensive position at an above average level, and could be signed to a 4-5 year extension after next season with some of the money that we’ll not be paying Albert Pujols. If I’m giving up 6-12 cost controlled years of prospects, I’d like to get a player that will possibly give me some long term value as well.
That said, I think signing Cody Ross is the best possible option for the Cardinals at this time. He can be utility OF, platoon with John Jay, and has pop.
That said, Upton will cost a lot to acquire
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
What about...
Cox, Cleto, and Tilson?
Cox, Swagerty?
I’m willing to do either of those with the abundance of RH relievers and young 3B. I don’t think McClellan would be wanted, but I’d try to get him in on the trade too. I hope the Cards can get rid of him for something useful.
I don't think many teams are going to be interested in Zach Cox as a 3B, honestly.
Cox, Cleto, and Tilson is way to much to give up for Martin Prado. Now, I’d do that for Jair Jurrjens in a heartbeat, and he actually seems to be available.
I just don’t get the feeling the Braves are going to deal Prado when they could deal from their stole of pitching depth to acquire guys that help their club.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
JJ would definetly take
one of our top 3 Starters and I’m hoping we can avoid that.
Personally, I think we can greatly improve our team if we get a 2B and not an OF. Schamaker can fill in for Craig while he is out. If we can get a legit 2B with pop for a couple years I feel it would be better than a 4th OF.
I’m on board with a Cox, Cleto, and Tilson trade if that would get us Prado for 2 years and pick when he leaves.
Prado really doesn't have "pop".
He’s a doubles hitter playing his home games in a doubles park, I think he’s probably a .420 slugger, which is better than our current options, but not better than, say, Kelly Johnson, who will cost a little bit more money but won’t cost us any prospects.
I like Prado better than Johnson (and so did the Braves), but considering that the difference is about $2M without a bunch of prospects going back to Atlanta, I’d rather have Johnson.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Johnson is a Blue Jay though
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I did not see that he had accepted arbitration
What an idiot. His market value would have been higher this year than next year…
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Maybe depends on if he can have numbers closer to his
2010/ Blue Jay numbers
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
You mean 2010 D-Back numbers?
Gonna be much, much harder to do that in the AL East than just about anywhere else.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
his 2010 line with AZ was .284/.370/.496
his 2011 in TOR was 270/.364/.417 so he will probably make around 6.5/7 million and he is betting he can put together a better year than his overall 2011 line of .222/.304/.413
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Yeah
big dip in slugging there. And he’ll be a year older.
I really don’t think he’ll be in a better position next year to get a multi year deal.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Yeah but he is making a bet that he can hit
better this year, he is probably right he hit .181/.251/.300 in his first 41 games with a .234 BABIP he hit 239/.325/.460 with 17 HR over the next 106.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I don't disagree with that
But O-Dog, Kendrick, and Freddy Sanchez are likely to be free agents after next season, so there will be more to choose from for 2B. Although I guess the Angels will probably offer Howie Kendrick $150M to stay in Anaheim, judging by their valuation principles for players.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Kendrick and Phillips are the only two 2B
who are better than hime that could possibly hit FA any time soon. I am guessing if Kelly hits AA locks him up too.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Fine, you win
I’m not having this argument anymore….
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Wow you are touchy I was talking about
KJ apparently you were arguing
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
You have your position, I have mine
i’m not going to try to convince you, as that seems to be a waste of my time.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I just think that under Duncan
he would go back to doing what he was doing in 2008 — getting tons of ground ball outs.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
oh, i would agree
don’t get me wrong, i think Jurrjens is a good pitcher. but as a result of something, probably his ridiculously lucky first half of 2011, he seems to be really overvalued.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
Haven't seen Cox play, but he strikes me as carrying the Brett Wallace dfective genes
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
I think you could make a case
that he his about as good as BPhillips with the bat. He is slower and maybe not as good on defense, but still very solid.
As far as overrated…far from. Who do you know that rates him really high. I think is a very capable and solid 2B. Hits for average, with some extra base pop. He’s got to be better than the league average 2B.
LOL
Phillips was worth like 6 WAR last year, Prado 1.6
Fans project BP around 5 WAR next year, Prado 3. we are talking about a .330 wOBA expectation out of Prado, and .350 from Phillips. so probably not a very good comparison.
Prado admittedly had a very unlucky year last year, so I guess it is possible they would under rate him. still, it would take a lot ot get him, and I’m just not sold on the guy. doesn’t seem like he would be that much better than Tyler Greene would be at 2B.
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
I would imagine
a lot of that has to do with too things:
1. Prado obviously had a bad year as he dealt with injuries…thus 1.6.
2. When you add in Phillips speed, that increases is WAR…which I completely agree with. I’m just speaking about his bat…I think Prado is about as good with the BAT as Phillips.
Phillips last 6 years:
.279 .330 .448 .778
Prado career:
.293 .341 .434 .775
By wOBA they aren't all that much different:
However, I don’t think Prado is as good at 2B defensively as Phillips is.
This makes my point for me though: Why would the Braves deal a cost-controlled player of his caliber?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
if they got a LOT of value in return
which is precisely why i’m not interested in trading for him.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
We have value to give
I just don’t see a place for Zach Cox…or really M. Carp with Freeze blocking the position and still relatively young.
We’ve got more RH relief prospects than we know what to do with (Sanchez/Lynn problem referenced earlier).
Why not give them a lot of value in return we have a lot of value hanging around. I’m not lessening the importance of prospects, but obviously we’d be getting someone proven. And like I mentioned earlier we should get a pick back when he leaves for FA.
Can we wait and see whether David Freese can stay healthy for a full season
and stay at his playoff level of production before we just plant him at 3B for the next 5 seasons?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
He has been consistent when he's in.
Granted health is a concern, but he has had some pretty crazy injuries.
I’m not saying that we get rid of both of our 3B prospects…just one.
It’s kinda like getting rid of walrus and then finding out that Matt Adams is rolling through the system…ok maybe it’s not like that but you get my point.
I'm very worried about Freese's ability to maintain as high a BABIP as he has.
Looking at his cumulative stats, he has only amassed about one season’s worth of plate appearances which is not very much to go on when projecting forward. That small sampling is the same reason I’m worried about his ability to sustain so high a BABIP.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
But the guy is clutch
I don’t have his AVG with RISP but from what I remember it was crazy.
I know there are those out there that don’t necessarily believe in “clutch,” but if you do the WS was proof that he is good when the game is on the line.
I’m almost ashamed to say this, but if you would have given me the choice of Pujols or Freese with a man on 2nd and 2 outs in the 9th this year I believe I would have picked Freese the whole second half of the season (when he was healthy).
Not me.
Pujols was head and shoulders above Freese in second half production and is head and shoulder above Freese in career production. Remember who started the Game 6 rally in the bottom of the ninth: Albert Pujols.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yes, true
I did remember that as I was writing, but I felt that we ended a lot of games with Pujols striking out…I could be wrong but this is my inclination from what I remember I don’t ever remember Freese striking out to end the game…again the key here is “I don’t remember.”
I never said anything about production
I was simply stating that with the game on the line last year I might have picked Freese over Pujols…I was beginning to feel this way before the playoffs even started. Also, I’m not saying in that next year I would have had the same opinion…in fact most likely not given #5’s career.
In the second half of the season,
Pujols hit for a higher average, got on-base at a higher clip, and slugged a higher percentage than Freese. This is also the case for their careers. If nothing else, I’d want a higher average hitter up with the winning run on second. That’s Pujols.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
It's not about production.
I get what you are saying, but you are not taking into account the “clutch” factor. If you don’t believe in the “clutch” factor then I would have to agree with all of your logic. But I’m talking about being clutch.
I just don't buy into such things.
I buy into hot streaks. I think Freese had a great one in the postseason. I think he hit and hit and hit no matter the Leverage Index. So he had some incredibly clutch hits.
Here are some thoughts on clutchyness.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This doesn't exactly state it, but
RISP w/2 outs this last year (and again I realize some people don’t like this stat).
Pujols:
.264 .371 .340 .711
Freese
.364 .429 .591 1.019
But it somewhat backs what I’m trying to say.
I don't think being "clutch" is a skill.
I think players will produce on par with their career numbers if they have enough “clutch” opportunities. For his career, Freese has a .322 BA with RISP and 2 outs. For his career, Pujols has a .318/.513/.620/1.138 line with RISP and 2 outs, so I’ll take Pujols.
A few years back, Nate Silver addressed the question of: “Is David Ortiz Really Mr. Clutch?” I recommend reading it and asking yourself whether Freese is really Mr. Clutch.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Albert had a high BABIP so he was pretty lucky I thought
Freese had a much higher LD% than Albert did
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
Freese's 2011 xBABIP was about 20 points lower than his actual BABIP..
Pujols had a career low BABIP.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
how are you calculating xBABIP?
as far as i knew, any existing methods were still pretty crude. like alpha-phase level of crude
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
(Why can't I help myself)
.318 .513 .620 is Pujols career line in that. Did he just forget how to do that?
I feel like even the people making this argument intuitively realize it’s irrational and just a function of personal bias, but for some reason embrace that problem. You’re talking about 62 PAs for Pujols. Who makes real judgments about 62 PAs of a hitter after 10 years in a career?
Is Pujols a better hitter than Freese? Why make it more complicated than that?
(Ignoring the fact that this has been disproved time and again. And again. And again. It’s beating a dead horse to statistically disprove it)
Not afraid to nitpick
Yes I'm probably beating a dead horse
But I feel that that when a player “comes through in the clutch” it only gives him that much more confidence and vise versa.
Last year Freese had a lot of confidence with the game on the line. I guess you could put it into the same category as being on a “hot streak.” Next year his numbers probably won’t be that good and will thus even out his overall stats.
I find this to be true on other players including Pujols. Check out his stats in 2006 I believe. He was “hot” when the game was on the line.
“Clutch” may be a hang-up point, but I feel that there is something to it.
Good article on clutchyness.
However, my opinion is still the same about the end of this last year. I don’t know how to state is statistically, or even if I’m accurate, but I believe I would want to chose Freese over Pujols to PH in the bottom of the 9th with 2 out and the game on the line…crazy but that was how I felt as the season was closing.
I do need to state that if I were the manager, there is no way I would actually do that, because if Freese didn’t come through (odds are he wouldn’t because the odds are stacked) I would have to explain it to the media and that would be a nightmare!
i am glad you acknowledge your opinion is crazy
as it saves me the bother of pointing it out. =P
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
LaRussa
He had crazy opinions too. Seemed to work out pretty well for him.
by Schnurdog on Dec 13, 2011 8:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
mainly because he had a ~8 fwar/yr player
playing for him for ~8M/yr, AAV, along with the highest, or second-highest, payroll in his division, for the last 11 years.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
So let me some this up:
- You think players are clutch due to confidence improvements for short periods of time….
- ….but if you had to base decisions on this thought process you wouldn’t do it because you’d have to explain this thought process to other people?
Are you running for president? Because you should be.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
How bout I sum it up since it's my opinion
- At the end of last season I would have PH with Freese instead of Pujols as mentioned.
- I based this OPINION off of my observation. Managers do this sort of thing all the time.
- Just as a Manager has to fess up when he makes an instinctive move and it fails, I would hate to be the one that failed by going with a fairly unproven 3B over a ridiculous 1B.
- I do think that if a player has consistently come up with a big hit in big situations over a short period of time you go with him…aka Craig’s consecutive PH on the WS even if you have Pujols on the bench.
You couldn’t pay me enough money to be President.
by Schnurdog on Dec 13, 2011 8:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
but if you look at people who do systematic
studies of in-game decision-making, managers are consistently wrong in these kinds of choices. the fact that managers do this all the time only proves that other people adhere to the same fallacy.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
Yes, they do
Managers do this sort of thing all the time.
And they make the wrong choice a lot of the time. This is what we call “overmanaging”. Like sending up your crappy left handed hitter on your bench just because a RHP has entered the game instead of sticking with a very good right handed hitter.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
But the guy is clutch. I don’t have his AVG with RISP but from what I remember it was crazy.
This is not a reason to bet on the future of a player.
if you would have given me the choice of Pujols or Freese with a man on 2nd and 2 outs in the 9th this year I believe I would have picked Freese the whole second half of the season (when he was healthy).
Oh. My. Goodness. You are apparently forgetting the entire month of August, and most of the month of September as well.
This should be placed in the dictionary as an example of hyperbole. Seriously. The kid is good, but he’s not Albert F. Pujols. C’mon.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I never said that.
Obviously David Freese is not a machine.
I’m just saying that it felt to me that he always came through.
Which is fine,
but that’s not a reason to assume that he will continue to do so for the next 4+ seasons. It’s not even enough to assume that he’ll do it next year.
I feel better about him than I did in August, but I have real reservations about him being able to sustain his BABIP as well as stay healthy.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
HUSH
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Because that line is great for a 2B not a LF
and he is a LF for them. They have a franchise Icon at 3B, and a 2B who is owed something like 50 million dollars
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
They also don't have a LF
And Prado is better than the Matt Diaz pu pu platter they were running out there for the last half of the season last year.
Martin Prado makes the Dan Uggla trade look really stupid on the Braves part.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
The trade was probably a good idea the extension not as much
but all the rumors around Prado say they want MLB ready talent the Rockies package was first rumored to be Seth Smith and Blackmon/Wheeler/Fowler. Later they said they asked for Smith and Arenado which isn’t going to happen.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
So that would be:
Allen Craig + Charlie Tilson + another B prospect.
Um. No thanks.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Agree with you on this
If this is what it takes then NO WAY. As soon as Craig is mentioned I would hang up.
But if: Tilson + B prospect (Carpenter/Cox) + B-/C+ prospect (Cleto/RHR) yes.
Atlanta is looking to compete next year, not two years from now.
Why would they take that package over any package that includes Seth Smith? None of the players you mention would help them next year, so they’d have traded an asset that would for assets that will help them in 2-3 seasons while getting nothing to fill the spot vacated by Prado, which, if you’ll remember, was their weakest spot last year. In a position where few teams have a weak offensive player.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Well, that is where my plan wouldn't work
I agree. If they wouldn’t take a “prospect” package then I’m done talking.
I don't think that they will.
They’re stated goal was to get an “outfield bopper” (not sure who the quote came from, but it was in their front office) this offseason and that they would look to trade pitching depth or someone like Prado to do so.
Had we signed Pujols, maybe we flip them Allen Craig and a prospect for Prado. Now, I really don’t think we match up with them as we don’t have corner outfield depth at the major league level.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
League average 2B
Isn’t really too hot. What is the appropriate way to calculate league average or where do you get this info from? I just took the top 18 second basemen sorted by AVG (which obviously you need enough AB’s for an average) and then averaged their AVG, OBP, SLG, and OPS.
This results in some pretty poor numbers…but then again we are talking about 2B:
AVG:0.265 OBP:0.332 SLG:0.421 OPS:0.753
I would be thrilled if we got that out of our 2B
That’s probably above league-average offense going forward. In 2011, league average (according to Fangraphs) was .255/.321/.399.
baseball-reference.com (among others) has league average splits by position
Click “leagues”, the click under the big red box “League Index”, then eithe NL or AL, then “batting”, then the year, then mouse over “batting”, click “league splits”, then scroll down to defensive positions.
It used to be MUCH easier, but they’ve added a ton of new features, so it’s harder to do some things… and it’s easier than doing the math yourself ;)
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
no, it doesn't, because Prado is not nearly as valuable a commodity as the posters who bring him up every week make him out to be
Prado is a good player, who i would love to have on the Cardinals, maybe for, say, Zack Cox, straight up. i’m not interested in trading much more than that to acquire him, nor would i be willing to pay what he would probably get on the open market as a free agent.
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Prado is a pretty valuable player.
Given 150 games and 600 PA’s at 2B, he’s probably a 3.5-4 WAR player.
I just don’t want to pay what it would take to acquire him when there are other options available, like Kelly Johnson, who have the potential to be just as valuable and don’t cost prospects to acquire.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
see, i would have said 2.5-3
but i guess we’re mostly in alignment here besides having somewhat different opinions of Martin Prado’s value.
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Prado was a 3.2 WAR player in 2009 and 4.4 in 2010 all while bouncing
from 2B to 3B to LF why wouldn’t he be able to do better as a 2B?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
why would you possibly think that the position he plays has anything to do with his value as assessed by WAR?
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Because a LF with a .350 wOBA is a shit ton easier to find
than a 2B with .350 wOBA hence why we have positional adjustments
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Because it does?
Because as a construct, positional adjustment is useful, but when applied to individual players who actually have different talents to play diferent positions, it often doesn’t make sense?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
so you think Martin Prado, specifically, is more valuable playing 2B than he is in LF?
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didn't we have this discussion this year with theriot the 2b vs theriot the ss?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
in which case the rationale was that Theriot was a better defensive player at 2B than SS
and that he would somehow outperform the positional adjustment. i reserve all comments on this and now will point out that the exact opposite is being argued here, if, in fact, that is what WMGT is saying- all our available evidence shows that Prado is an above average defensive left fielder and below average, although probably not by much, at 2B.
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got you.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
a mitigating factor would be that LF is a substantially easier position to play than 2B
and that the difference between SS and 2B is not as large/requiring different skills. i’m just not sure how you make this argument without having fully scouted Martin Prado’s defensive abilities at multiple positions- i don’t think this can be easily answered with stats.
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well i understand the positional adjustment thing.
but obviously the adjustment is much bigger from LF to 2B than SS to 2B
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
i'm just saying, as WMGT pointed out below
that the “uncertainty” (this is not the proper term- likelihood of the actual value of the player changing based on a position switch) is higher for an infield-outfield move than it is for a 2B-SS move. i think simply the fact that the positional adjustment is larger is numerical evidence for this.
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The best example from last year IMO is Pujols and Berkman.
They had close to the same WAR in actuality but it’s quite clear (IMO) that if Albert had played RF and Berkman had played 1B, they most certainly would not have had equivalent WAR.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Jamey Carrol had a 98 OPS+
he was the only FA 2B who came close to being a league average bat he was 36 and got a 2 year contract, Cody Ross has a career .780 OPS and will be lucky to get two years despite being 30
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
what the hell does this have to do with anything?
you cherry pick stats like it’s your job, dude.
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have you ever thought about working for Ed Wade?
i think he could use someone like you.
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What I am saying is that LF is the second easiest
position on the baseball diamond to fill. Slightly below average defense at 2B from a .780 OPS hitter is much better WARwise than slightly above average defense from a LF with a .780 OPS and who is cherry picking stats? Find me a FA 2B with a .750 OPS, now find me 5 LF with the same.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
FWIW
I find the WAR positional adjustments to be somewhat unsatisfying. They have their uses, don’t get me wrong, but I still wonder (and have not been able to find a good answer to my questions) whether they have been / should be adjusted now that defensive WAR is a part of the calculation.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 13, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
I agree I also don't think it fully accounts for
scarcity.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Well. . .
the Fangraphs post to which fourstick linked seems to suggest in the post that positional adjustment is based on the average defensive attributes of the position, while some of the comments by folks who should know suggest that scarcity is a factor.
I can see both points, and certainly see a need for some sort of postitional adjustmnet, but to me the explanations for the theory and the generally agreed upon values are muddy at best.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 13, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
oh it is factored but undervalued
IMO
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Because he's a good defender at 2B with the same bat,
and 2B has about 7.5 runs of positional adjustment over LF due to scarcity.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
the positional adjustment isn't a matter of scarcity
by definition player x is worth y WAR at every position
the only real argument would be in the context of a team. “martin prado is more valuable as a 2B to the st louis cardinals than as a LF” for example
i think he's arguing against the positional adjustment
and just didn’t read my post
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...and this is wrong too.
By definition, if Prado is a + 5 defender at 2B and a + 10 defender in LF, he’s worth 0.5 more WAR at 2B because of the position adjustments (+ 2.5 runs for 2B, -7.5 runs of LF).
As PJ says, it’s a fundamental part of WAR.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
gotcha, sorry
so he’s a +5 defender at 2B despite never having a positive UZR/150, and an aggregate of -8.4?
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I believe f'stick was simply doing a hypothetical exercise to show the possible WAR difference between the two positions
He was not arguing that Prado was actually a +5 defender at 2B.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
That's our executive decision making tool.
How did you get a copy of that?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
When Mo uses this,
he always lands on “Jump again”….
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I was making an example.
He’s not a +10 defender in LF either, you want to jump on my case about that too I suppose?
I would guess he’s an average or better defender at 2B if given the opportunity to play all of his innings there. Something he’s not been able to do with the Braves. He’s never played more than a half season at 2B and never a half season in a row.
He’s definitely not as good as Brandon Phillips at 2B defensively, however.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
every narrative evaluation i have ever read about him says that he is serviceable at best at 2B and above average in the outfield.
sample sizes of the UZRs aren’t large enough anyway, but in 1632 innings, he’s -8.4 at 2B, and in 880 innings, he’s +9.3 in the outfield. this points in that direction, although it is by no means proof of anything. that’s precisely why i said above that i don’t think this question can be answered with stats.
if you have fully scouted Martin Prado as an infielder and an outfielder, i am interested in your opinions, but otherwise, i’m not sure how we can make objective evaluations here.
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I think he's better than Dan Uggla
and better than anyone the Cardinals currently have at the position. So for the terms of this discussion whether he’s -5 or 0 or +2.5 is really a moot point. I think that the Braves would deal him for a power hitting corner outfielder in a heartbeat, which is why I’m surprised they didn’t jump on the Seth Smith offer when they had it.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
i wouldn't take +5 and +10 as absolute certainties
the 5 runs difference between the 2 positions are well withing the error bars of UZR at 2 positions over, i assume, a season or two.
you can argue that the position adjustments are too coarse, but by definition, prado is the same value at LF and 2B in a vacuum
So Skip Schumaker has the same value as a RF as he does as a CF?
P.S. No he doesn’t.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
yes
that may not be 100% reflected in his WAR total if he had 600 PAs as a CF in year x and 600 PAs as a RF in year x + 1 assuming exactly identical true talent, but that is a shortcoming of the input of WAR and the positional adjustments (which are imperfect due to the imperfections of the stats used to estimate them)
if you disagree, then you disagree with the philosophy behind wins above replacement.
the positional adjustments are estimated in aggregate
i’m not sure that’s a SHORTCOMING, just a artifact of how the system works. i don’t think that means everyone is by definition the same value in a vacuum, it means that we cannot determine with any certainty/have no tools to discern that their value is different in a vacuum.
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i mean
i find it hard to believe that the exact differences in positional value between the positions are nice even multiples of 0.5. a lot of this is based, i assume, on statistically observed differences in defensive stats, which are flawed
the rest of your post is makes sense. i do imagine that the theory behind positional adjustments is only true on average and certain players will have skills that bias them toward certain positions, but it’s very difficult, if possible to argue that any given player is more valuable in some place in a vacuum
it is and it isn't
it’s pretty obvious, i think, that putting Yadier Molina in center field would lose more a win of his true value. i know this is an extreme example- but that’s kind of my point. in extreme situations, this becomes more clear, but when you get down to a situation like moving Theriot from SS to 2B, i don’t think you can do anything except qualitative analysis.
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Wha???
It absolutely is a matter of scarcity. There are fewer players that can play SS and 2B than can play LF. That’s the entire point of position adjustments.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Gah...stupid link shortener...
There.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
read the whole MGL primer, you clearly are uneducated in this matter
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
thanks for your helpful comment, VEP
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
hey I'm just trying to speading tidings and good cheer this holliday season
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
no, you're trying to piss me off
it was kind of funny reading the comments in that tRAr article and remembering that you used to be capable of polite conversations
oh shut up I was just joking
I know you know about UZR.
And I’m still capable of polite conversation. Just not with people who act like dickbags.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
i dunno
it seemed like the kind of dismissive thing you would typically say. sorry for not giving you the benefit of the doubt
Awesome use of the word Dickbag
I almost used Dickhole instead of Polish in my above comment
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Fuck it, I'm posting the whole link this time
since my link shortener continues to put the wrong link in the comment:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/position-adjustments/
I think Dave covers it pretty well here. When comparing a specific PLAYER, yes, his WAR value from position to position doesn’t change all that much. But when comparing a specific player to a specific situation, which is what we’re doing here, then scarcity is absolutely a factor.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Also
I disagree that certain players have a moot difference from position to position. Daniel Descalso is probably worth 15 runs as a 3B defensively. But I don’t think he’s worth the same number of runs as a 2B defensively. Yet the position adjustment is the same. Not because one position is harder to play than the other, but because good defensive second baseman are harder to find, traditionally, then good defensive third baseman.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Quick glance
2011: 13 2B with UZR above 0
8 3B with UZR above 0
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
2010: 10 2B vs 13 3B
Okay fuck it I’m too lazy
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I think I mentioned the word "historically" did I not?
And, historically, we are in a tremendous drought of above average defensive 3B. I think this might be due to a lot of teams moving would be 3B to 2B in the minor leagues, like what the Cardinals were thought to be doing with Zach Cox.
Outside of Beltre and a healthy Scott Rolen, there aren’t near as many great defensive 3B in the league right now as there were in any previous decade I can think of.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
FWIW
The positional adjustment is the same, so there’s not a lot of difference between those two positions historically. But I think you can make the case that it’s harder to play 2B in terms of skills than it is to play 3B just due to the amount of athleticism and range one must have to be an above average defender at 2B vs. 3B.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Agreed
So a player who is good at 2B may not be good at 3B. This is what I mean by WAR not being “context neutral” as you are suggesting. It’s not. Different positions require different skill sets, so we cannot assume that 2B and 3B are “equal” when valuing a particular player because that particular player’s skills may not translate to the other position. (Ripken and A-Rod late in their careers would be prime examples of this)
WAR is using the premise that decisions will be made to determine what position a player is optimally suited for prior to him accumulating enough innings at a particular position to determine his value there. Ex. Ryan Braun didn’t pass the eye test at 3B and was moved off of the position. UZR didn’t determine that switch, scouting did.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
i don't disagree with most of what you're saying
but WAR is intended to be context neutral. the things that i’m saying are the theory behind WAR that make it possible to compare two different players at different positions with different skillsets
in practice (yadi in CF), this theory isn’t going to hold up 100%. on average, it should. and in all but the extreme circumstances (yadi in CF), it’s going to be close enough we can’t tell a difference (braun sucks in LF, too, as far as i’m aware)
but in fairness
defensive metrics are broken for catchers most of all. it might be safe to exclude them from this conversation entirely. yadi in CF is absurd. braun’s improvement defensively in LF is going to be mostly accounted for by the positional adjustment
Longoria, Zimmerman?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i think that the offensive expectations
mostly negate the difference in defensive expectations between the positions
agreed that it’s probably not exactly a 0 run positional difference in practice, but again, that’s an imperfection in the implementation, not the underlying theory
yeah, i agree scarcity is a factor
context is hugely important in deciding who to put where. i just said what i did because you were responding to a post regarding a player’s value as assessed by WAR, which is context neutral
i don't know what that link means
maybe it’s implicitly a matter of scarcity. it’s explicitly a matter of the fact that SS is harder to play than LF.
maybe i’m wrong about that. the point is not that, though. what i want to address is that a player is roughly the same value, by WAR, at each position. it’s a fundamental premise of the stat, which you seem to be disputing in the post i responded to
Yeah, hadn't seen that with all the Pujols talk going on last week.
Is it just me, or was that a really stupid decision on his part? The market for 2B has a lot more talent in it next offseason, so one would think that he’d have been better off as a free agent this year.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Traded because Houston already had Adam Everett.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
I would advocate a CoCo signing if we lose out on Beltran.
He’s the ideal, versatile 4th OF who could take a lot of PAs.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
When Schumaker isn't take them.
In all seriousness, though, I agree. I’d like Crisp as a second choice because I think he could be had on a relatively short deal, he can defend CF, and he can steal bases. He’d be a useful bench player.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Agreed.
CoCo is actually versatile, versus Sikp, who people call versatile, but actually isn’t.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Coco is legitimate starting quality (98 wRC+ and +5 in CF), he just hasn't stayed healthy enough to be counted on like that by a good team
Which is like exactly what you want out of an upside 3.5th OFer.
Not afraid to nitpick
As a half time player
platooning with Jay, I like this idea a lot. I think he’s more valuable as a 400 PA player than a guy who gets 600 and is leading off for you every day.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Coco and Furc as 1 and 2 would be pretty good speed at the top
And they will be allowed to use their speed since Apu is no longer here forbidding running when he’s at the plate.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
by totalloser on Dec 13, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Allen Craig is shocked to learn this about Pujols.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Dec 13, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm hitting David Freese or Allen Craig second for much of the year
Probably hit Crisp 6th or 7th.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Missed all the Beltran discussion over the weekend but
A Cardinals team with Berkman & Beltran and without Albert?
Truly, this is a disturbing universe…
Cards fan in Middle East
it's anti-2005
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
actually it would be anti-2004
Beltran was on the Mets in 05
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
i think this is incorrect.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
never mind.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
We need a 2B, right? Where's Biggio at?
And maybe we can get Bagwell to fill that hole at 1B now that Pujols is gone?
i will feel a little more at ease when Theriot has signed with someone else
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
i'm afraid we might
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Id prefer kozma
How fucking sad is that?
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 13, 2011 10:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
My thoughts on the tenders...
So…. If a new morning thread pops up I may move this over there
My thoughts:
Skippy: At 2.3 Million a year over the next two years it tells me that Mo and the Minor league system does not believe that Carpenter or any of the other outfielders are ready at this time. Having Skip on the bench instead of them allows them to improve. The Contract, if reported accurately, makes Skip a Franklin candidate next year. I.E. It’s not anything that the club won’t eat and send him scouting if he isn’t able to preform. I certainly like skip in the bench role better than the starting role. Lets not forget that Stavinoha was the bench guy over Craig. When both were on the team, Craig started. Craig was allowed to play everyday that year when he went down. Stavionha stayed in AAA last year and has since been banished to Huston. While Craig hits the winning HR, and catches the final out in a World Series Game 7. Would Craig have been able to be or starting right fielder this year if he had his growth stunted by being a Bench game in 2010? Maybe, but you have to think the extra year in AAA did help.
K-Mac: I’ll wait until I see the contract. Hopefully it’s just a year. You really can never have too many arms, and K-Mac being the last guy out of the Pen isn’t a bad thing. Club might be worried about Sanchez’s health.
Motte: Yes please.
Theriot: So sad to see him go. When he was our starting short stop we were in first place. When he was our starting second baseman and leading off in the World Series, we were winning game 7s. It is what it is.
Grit != flat out sucking.
KMac's career FIP- is 112, Puppy Kicker's is 115. It's pretty close.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Pk always pissed me off
I wanted him to prove that he could grow facial hair SO BAD.
Something clever...
I was at a AAA Round Rock Express game last year
and saw puppy kicker take the mound and just started giggling maniacially. Everyone within two rows of me was staring with confusion.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
FIP- screws with my head
i understand the rationale about making it directionally congruent with the other pitching stats, but i see numbers around 100 and immediately think “bigger is better, smaller is worse”.
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I think the appeal to the + stats is that they work the same way (more or less) as IQ
Higher is better, 100 is about average.
I hate the “minus” stats, because they are just too many steps. You see a number. If you’re familiar with baseball stats, you think, “OK, this is similar to OPS+” but then you see that a really good player has a low FIP-, so then you have to think “well, I guess it makes some sense for lower to be better, because a lower ERA or FIP is better”. If we’re going to make multiple + stats, it makes no sense for me to have some of them work the opposite way as the rest. All “plus” stats should go to the same scale. It’s over-thinking it, in my opinion, to flip it around just because that is how ERA and FIP work.
agreed.
i have a pretty good feel for the + stats- i have a hard time understanding the distribution, but it’s easy to make a quick and dirty evaluation- over 100 is good, over 120 is good enough that i mentally begin to rule it out as being an outlier if there’s a couple years of data, over 150 is really good. i just can’t get the minus stats in the same way, i have to really look and think about them.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
i mean, i understand how they work
but when i see “.400 wOBA,” i have a very good understanding of how good that player is. when i see “130 OPS+,” i really have no clue what the equivalent wOBA/OPS/etc is
wRC+
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
no, i know, i was just asking if there was actually a stat called wOBA+ because PJ referred to it
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
yes. it is reported on statcorner.com. lance berkman had a 133 wOBA+.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
yeah, it got answered below
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
by tehzachatak on Dec 14, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
I 'unno
As you may have noticed, there’s now an extra column in the "Advanced" section for batting stats called "wRC+". You can think of this stat as a wOBA based version of OPS+
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
The fangraphs guys are real tools when it comes to these acronyms...
A good acronym:
1. does not have a distracting mix of lower and upper case letters
2. does not have non-alphabetic symbols
3. is pronounceable
It’s as if they don’t want this stuff to catch on…
Sign Roy O
but to answer the question you're more likely asking
i think statcorner has it. but any stat can be “plussified”
Yeah, I started remembering about it more once I got that cool app thingie for Chrome
Where you can type in a player’s name and bring up a page for whichever stat pages you want. I usually set mine to B-Ref, Fangraphs, and StatCorner.
Hm, I'm having trouble finding it... If someone else remembers where it came from feel free to link it
I’m gonna keep looking for a minute.
does it just correct by BABIP, or does it actually look at the batted ball breakdown more fully
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
i have yet to find a detailed explanation
but as far as i can tell to wager a guess, it does account for specific batted ball types
have you seen this?
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2010/3/8/1362878/trar-and-wobar
sounds like specific batted ball types.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
i haven't
i’ve generally been operating on their 1-sentence description and what i’ve been able to infer by looking at data
it basically says
the same thing as the one-sentence description on statcorner in more words. i’d be interested in him opening up the algorithm to be looked at, but that “more info is coming” comment has been there for a long time
can you explain how it does this?
does it simply correct BA to a league average BABIP?
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
not specifically, i can't
but generally, it tells you what a player’s wOBA should have been had his batted ball profile been what it was in the past. if the player doesn’t have the major league data for this, then league average is used
okay, that sounds very good
and preemptively addresses any concerns i may have had.
that stat sounds sweet.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
also adjusts for park factors, i believe.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I really wish they'd just tell us at what point they shift from regressing to league-average batted ball data to player's career batted ball data.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i don't think it's a switch so much as
a little bit of this and a little bit of that depending on how much context you have. but yes, it would be nice to see the methods
Yeah, but they have wOBA+ which is oh so helpful for minor leaguers.
As is wOBA*.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
but to address your point, they have different goals
OPS+ > wOBA for comparing players across different year/leagues/etc
I'm the other way around
The value of a given wOBA can change based on the run environment. A .320 wOBA used to suck a lot more than it does now because offense went down in 2010 and so far has continued to be depressed relative to the roughly stable period from 1993 through 2009. The plus stats are a way to instantly get a feel for how “good” a given level of production is. If, in future Moon Baseball, replacement level OPS is 1.000, then OPS+ will be way more useful than simply knowing that 1.000 is usually good.
yeah, i agree
this is why i like the + stats. i have a hard time with wOBA- i can easily reconcile it with OBP, obviously, but i don’t find this useful mentally.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
I've never messed with +/-.
I figured I was having enough problems with regular stats, why add to it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think the +/- stats are especially helpful with minor leaguers.
It gives you context for the way the league as a whole plays.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah they are all anyone should when not making specific valuations
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
ah. okay, I'll try to use them like that.
i just haven’t sat down and played with them much beyond perusing.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
So is 2.3M/year the actual number?
We are paying him to be worth 1.05 WAR over the next two years. Doable?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 13, 2011 10:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The actual contract details have not been released yet
I’m not sure where Evilfrog is getting 2.3 MIL other than a reasonable guess.
Well... 4.7 was the number that Rich Hummel
It doesn’t have the break down if it’s 2.3 this year and 2.4 next, or what have you.
Deidre Pujols hasn’t confirmed if that was the offer on the table or not.
Grit != flat out sucking.
from your link
Schumaker, the Cardinals’ 2011 regular second baseman who started Game 7 of the World Series in center field, would have been eligible for free agency after next season if he hadn’t gotten the two-year deal worth a total of $3 million. He just completed a two-year deal worth $4.7 million.
Grit != flat out sucking.
So according to that article it is 3M deal.
So, 1.5M average for the next two years.
At least it is a significant paycut.
actually
I guess it doesn’t mention anything in there. Reading > Evilfrog.
All we know is that he completed one for 4.7, and it’s over 3 million.
Grit != flat out sucking.
you know what
screw this, I need coffee. Be back in an hour after i wake up.
Grit != flat out sucking.
so when will then be now?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
by TomCat009 on Dec 13, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
$4.7MM was his last contract
he “completed” it in that he just finished the two years that it covered. the new contract is $3M
Oh, hi The Continental from last night.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
...
Mo and the Minor league system does not believe that Carpenter or any of the other outfielders are ready at this time.
Shit, what is Skip “ready” for?
Lord knows I hated Theriot but at least it’s possible for him to be productive in a defined role – the RH-side of a platoon at 2B. Skip is not productive in any role. He is not a good pinch runner, not a good defensive replacement at any position, has NO power, has little patience, etc.
Basically, we just signed the team mascot to a two-year deal.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
I'd say clubhouse spokesman.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
so they can point and say
see this guy? he is calm, composed, and nice. be like him.
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Schumaker is quoted much more often than any other Cardinal in stories about the team.
Berkman elbowed in on his ink last season but Schumaker was still regularly quoted. During the postseason, the national media types tweeted things like Schumaker is a “quote machine” and other similar things. There probably is some value in that.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Giving Schu a two year contract
is welfare. I previously thought Schu’s last two year contract was forced on the organization by LaManager but apparently I was wrong. Little Johnny Moz inked this one all on his own. Sad. If they wanted depth for the outfield (which is the only place Schu might be needed on this team), then they could have acquired it with a one year contract.
at $3 million it doesn't matter if it's for one year our two
the club will be in a position to eat that if need be.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Oh, OK then. I'm sure an extra $2-3mm wouldn't have been useful in signing Carlos Beltran.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying it's useful so much that it's very low risk
Skip will {hopefully} be the last guy off the bench. And he’ll be paid like it. If he doesn’t preform his salary can be jettisoned. If he does preform like at 25th man, then you are afforded the opportunity to give some of the younger guys more training.
Grit != flat out sucking.
I think Skip is a morale signing.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Dec 13, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It isn't helping my morale at all.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
keeping shallow ladies in the seats.
(my sister included)
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
I actually know a number of girls
Who are Skippy fans.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
Mine either.
But I’m not in that clubhouse. He really is their mascot, I think.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
No, I think you're right.
I just wish they weren’t burning a roster spot for their gritty pet.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i concur
if it is really only for $1.5mm/year i actually don’t have much problem with it.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I think skip's signing just tanked adron chambers'
Morale. And that’s a hard morale to sink.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 13, 2011 2:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I know, right?
I actually would like Adron as the fourth OFer if we don’t get Beltran. Rally Adron is probably worth more WAR while just sitting on the bench than Skip is while on the field.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
or possibly a slumpbuster.
Grease the skids, make Mo a bit more relaxed while trying to land Beltran.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
it is the other way around man!
Luhnow is their GM and Stavinoha is an Astro! Oh yea and their owner has ties to STL.
that was an awful episode
and also the last one ever too :-(
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
"You are not Morg, you are not I-morg. This is Here."
“What have you done with Spock;s BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAin?!!!!”
:=8O
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
yeah, it's like we traded
Stavi and Wallace for Berkman. Try to get that deal to fly in MLB 11.
by jjray on Dec 13, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i'm starting to get on board with this.
dude’s only 34, probably won’t cost that much relative to other free agent pitchers, and was worth 2.5 WAR in just 139 innings last year.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
tell them to suck it up.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
yeah my answer was a cop out because i don't really have a good solution.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
You tell tell Westy that he can either pitch out of the pen and damage his next
contract, or he can approve the trade to the Padres with STL eating half the salary
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I hear Boston is looking for a 5th starter. someone posted it a few threads pack.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Westbrook for Scutaro with the Cards eating most of Westy's contract
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
You pay...
…someone to take Westbrook off our hands.
by BigJawnMize on Dec 13, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
THE HAT
If anyone is still looking for THE HAT, Fox Sports Midwest has it on sale for under $20.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 13, 2011 10:21 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
I got the first one in the second row
currently my fave hat. I like that second one in the first row, too, though.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 13, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Who does McClellan bump out of the 2012 bullpen?
Mozeliak has previously stated that there will be two lefties in the pen, which leaves five spots for righties. Here are the righties available:
Motte
Salas
Lynn
Sanchez
Boggs
McClellan
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
this is my guess too
With the emphasis on working on control. He is the first guy up. But we’ll get a better view once spring training starts. I wouldn’t be surprise to see a few Miguel Batistas and Ian Snells signed.
Grit != flat out sucking.
and you baby Waino for the first months
to see how his arm holds up.
K-Mac could have an important role as the middleman. I’m not thrilled by it, but it is what it is.
I hope he and Skip become part of a mid-season package for whatever hole we still need to fill.
...
I hope he and Skip become part of a mid-season package for whatever hole we still need to fill.
I chuckled.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Because teams are clamoring for a
6th starter who doesn’t throw hard enough to merit inclusion in most bullpens and a LHH utility player who can only really play a corner OF spot but doesn’t have the bat to be worth more than replacement level. Not to mention that both are in arbitration.
I mean, who is this mortally stupid team we’re talking about? And why would they trade us a player who has actual value for our spare parts?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
the Ed Wade expansion team
Because Matheny
by WyoCardsFan on Dec 13, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
How dare you
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
because there was an actual good player going their way.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
in what world is a .517 OPS Good?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Seriously Aaron Miles doesn't even have a .517 OPS
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
What is more likely going forward, a .517 OPS or a .750 OPS?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
which was more recent
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Why would any MLB team base a player projection solely on the most recent season's performance?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Jose Lopez had a .727 OPS from 22-25
Colby Rasmus has a .749 I am just saying
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
And Jose Bautista had an OPS of like .550 over those same ages.
We could trade anecdotes back and forth for hours. At some point, you also have to consider their skill sets. Rasmus has an excellent batting eye and power potential. You also have to consdier what your scouts are telling you—something we don’t know about Rasmus. But we do know that, as Rasmus came up through the St. Louis system, he drew rave reviews from scouts.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
well thank goodness someone took me seriously
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Are any of you guys really taking this serious?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
not particularly, since it's been hashed and rehashed
roughly eleventy billion times on this site.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Good because as much as I love to argue
taking the position that a 24 yo will never get better is one you will rarely find me in
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Yes this answers my question
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
why do you say dumb things?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
in this case just to see the bees buzz
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
by TomCat009 on Dec 13, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well it was a joke
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
If Sanchez is healthy
their should be no reason to move him down, IMO, the Cards should trade McClellan to make room for Sanchez.
No one else wants him
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 13, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
why did we bring him back again?
Actually, I think we could get something from him. He seemed to be a capable starter when put in that role last year…just someone to fill out the rotation.
Which I don't understand at all
If he’s healthy and throwing 94-95, he’s probably the best reliever out there short of Motte.
Not afraid to nitpick
and that slider. ohhhhh that slider.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
just responded to you on twitter...
but i don’t know why we can’t just carry 6 righties and 1 lefty. k-mac acts as a LOOGY anyway at times.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
My problem is that McClellan will probably be at or below 0.0 WAR because he is so terrible.
Why give him a raise and keep him on the team? It’s a waste of money. Then again, so is Skip Schumaker. But this is about the bullpen. Why not sign Mike Gonzalez who gets righties and lefties out very well? I’d rather spend a bit extra on Gonzalez, who has good upside, than McClellan, who will never reproduce his magical 90% LOB rate of 2010.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i agree...
but unfortunately it looks like mcclellan is going to be on the team next year, so we might as well talk about his role.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
I think its more of a security blanket
If a starter gets injured you can flip him in to the rotation as a stop gap solution without really losing anything in the bullpen
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 13, 2011 10:43 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Exactly
Carp is 37 this year, Westy is 34, Lohse is 33 and Waino is just coming back from injury having a 7th starter around is a smart bet
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
agreed
McClellan doesn’t really have upside, but he’s durable healthy depth and a known quantity.
I’m worried about rushing Waino back, carp’s age, and the reliability of Westbrook and Lohse. Rzep and McClellan are stop-gaps. The difference between the two is Rzep has value in the bullpen.
by _pistol_ on Dec 13, 2011 12:13 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Current candidates for the 7th role...
…are Lynn, Scrabble, and (in Memphis) Shelby Miller. I think that’s probably better than what’s available as a depth starter on the free agent market, and it’s easier to put a young pitcher in the bullpen to replace whoever spot starts in case of injury.
Boggs
And Boggs starts the season in the Memphis rotation.
I don’t agree with this either, but I’m gonna guess that’s how it plays out.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Fail.
Could be Lance Lynn too, for the same reasons. I think the franchise should value both Lynn and Boggs as starting pitchers until they prove that they aren’t. Also, our rotation pretty well escaped injury this past season after WW went down, but it’s not like we have a ton of good depth at the AAA level to pitch should someone have a 30 day DL stint and miss 5+ starts next season.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
i'd be pissed about lance lynn.
dude proved himself as a very effective middle reliever last year. it’d be a shame to throw that high 90’s fastball back down to memphis.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
I'd be pissed about moving a possible 3 WAR starter back to the rotation too.
I mean, we are so short on right handed relievers as it is……
Wait. Shit.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
well what's more beneficial for the team moving to 2013?
1. we get the 1-1.5 WAR from lynn in the bullpen in 2012, then try and convert him to starter for 2013. or…
2. you have him start all year in memphis for 2012?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
basically i'm asking...
if you think lynn is a starter moving forward, does it hurt him to pitch a whole season in relief at the big league level before trying to make it as a starter in 2013?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
The club could also view Lynn as the No. 6 starter
and start him in Memphis so he is ready to fill in if any member of the rotation sustains an injury. He’s already on the 40-man and is probably the most refined starter outside the top five.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
so you'd rather see the #6 starting full time in memphis instead of in our bullpen?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know.
I think I’d prefer him in the MLB bullpen but I can also understand having him conditioned as a starter as insurance for an injury in the MLB rotation.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Probably
You really counting on Carpenter, Wainwright or Garcia not getting hurt (because that’s never happened!) or Lohse/Westbrook getting hurt/turning into a pumpkin? You gotta go 5/5 on those guys for it not to make sense to have a legit #6 starter.
Not afraid to nitpick
This.
And considering that we have a ton of depth among our right handed relief corps, this seems to be the best course, since he’s a better starting pitcher than Mitchell Boggs or Kyle McClellan. You can always move Lance Lynn back to the pen if needed, but you can’t move him from the MLB pen to the MLB rotation on command.
I would expect that Adam Reifer will be ready to contribute sometime this season as well. Prior to injury he was as much of a prospect as Salas or Sanchez was.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I know -- kinda nice to have a shitload of those guys down on the farm for once isn't it?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Because we are evidently unable to learn from the mistakes of last year's bullpen
it will be Sanchez.
Kmac will be starring as this year’s Miguel Batista in the spring.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
I hope signing skip and mcclellan doesn't mean they won't be signing boggs
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
They don't have to.
He’s still under club control.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You expect Lynn AND Sanchez to stay healthy all year?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I just saw this.
this needs to not happen
Cards fan in Seoul.
Albert Pujols is the hero saint louis deserves, but not the one it can afford right now. So we'll strike him out out because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's an A-Rod
by letsgostlcardinals on Dec 13, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
dammit.
everyone needs to prepare for five middle infielders and chambers on the team next year. going to be the worst bench in baseball.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I'm hoping this is just a negotiating ploy by the Rockies
To get Cuddyer to sign with them. Act like you are interested in Beltran to begin removing the leverage of Cuddyer.
At least I’m hoping the Rox are stupid enough to want Cuddyer more.
That the specifics of the Rockies' offer to Cuddyer have been reporter makes me think this, too.
The Rockies appear to be further along in their negotiations with Cuddyer than Beltran.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
LOL
Reading Sea Bass Gonzalez made my whole morning.
by McLaughlin_Stole_My_Beer on Dec 13, 2011 10:55 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Surely Bernie grasps the valuation of a Win Above Replacement?
This paragraph makes me think that he does not.
* Furcal had a healthy 2010 and played very well for the Dodgers, hitting .300 with a combined onbase-slugging of .826. He was worth about 4.2 wins for the Dodgers. Again, the Cardinals would be pleased to see a repeat performance. What this really comes down to is this: can Furcal be the 2010 version of himself over the next two years? It’s possible. Our SABR friends think he’s a good risk. I was just surprised by the money. I thought the Cardinals could get Furcal for about half of what they ended up guaranteeing him. But the shortstop market is lean, and the options were limited, and maybe they had to overpay for a little. I’m skeptical that Furcal can be a 4-win player in 2012. But if he can be a 2.5-win player, that would be OK. Keep your fingers crossed.
Bernie makes it seem that the Cardinals are paying Furcal to be a 4-WAR player in 2012, but they aren’t. Assuming a $7MM salary in 2012 (which is probably high), they’re paying Furcal to be a 1.56-WAR player in 2012 and a 3.11-WAR player over the two years of the contract.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
He understands it generally, I think, but probably doesn't understand the $/WAR part very well
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
ha, i think every post i've noticed from you in the last several days was about dollars per win
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
many
because it doesn’t take much research to see that 4.5m/war is not a valuable guide to contracts, and its aggravating to see it continually crop up on a site that is supposed to use critical analytics
TLR is gone, long live the king
oh, i don't want to have the conversation, i just thought it was an interesting conversation
however, if you put together a comprehensive study detailing the actual cost to buy a win on the free agent market, i would read it
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
How would you go about doing this?
That’s my question. There’s far too many variables that you have to adjust for from year to year, and considering that the market for most players rarely involves more than 3 teams and can’t involve more than 30 teams doesn’t seem like a realistic “market”.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I don't think he knows what the value of 1 WAR is on the open market.
Other than that, this is pretty good analysis actually.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I agree with most of what he wrote.
I don’t agree that the contract’s money requires Furcal to be a 4+ WAR player in 2012. I also think the contract would be a slam dunk win if Furcal is a 2.5-WAR player in 2012. He’s only need to give the Cardinals 0.7-WAR in 2013, if this occurs. that’s much better than just “okay.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
So enlighten him. He reads his texts and emails.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 13, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
He blocked me on Twitter for some reason.
I don’t even know why. And, yes, folks told me to email him because it was probably a mistake and he’d correct it but, since it took me so long to discover he had blocked me, I just figured I didn’t really miss following him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Exact same thing happened with me and Amanda Rykoff!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
miklasz isn't much to follow on twitter in terms of the cardinals.
he doesn’t report much news as he leaves that to strauss, goold, etc.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
the tony softli jokes are my current favorite twitter thing.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
HEH
John Marecek @JohnMarecek Close
Where’d the De De Pujols interview go? Joy FM remove it? Why take down an interview that’s drawing folks to your station? #stlcards
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
...
John Marecek @JohnMarecek Close
RT @FrankLadd_KTRS: Interview with Dee Dee Pujols pulled from Joy FM website. Station says other media using long clips out of context
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
out of context
my favorite excuse.
it’s true that things absolutely can be taken out of context, but the quotes i’ve seen have been consistent with the overall message of the pujols camp. so yeah, nice damage control there Dee Dee.
YES! Out of context!!!
It’s my favorite excuse of all time!!!
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Up next:
She claims she misquoted herself.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
After that
she’ll claim that she didn’t actually say it.
Then she’ll file to run for public office, only to have to withdraw after a birth certificate scandal.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
and then...
…she will claim that she doesn’t know English.
by BigJawnMize on Dec 13, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
When I listened
I heard her say she was mad at God when the Cards offered 5 for 150. If 150 million makes you mad at God, what should the rest of us be?
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Dec 13, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Mad at our parents?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Did they offer 150?
I thought it was 130…
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
What's the difference
If 150 makes you mad at God, 130 must make you irate.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Dec 13, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think she was saying that she had believed that all signs in her life pointed
to her staying in STL for his whole career, and whn the first off of 5/130 was about half what he ended up recieving and was less than far inferior players were recieving in extensions let alone FA that as a clear indicator her life would likely be uprooted.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
How do you figure half?
If after 5 years he was still a great player, he would have the chance to do it again. If not, he would not want money that he didn’t deserve.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Dec 13, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Well he was offered 5/130 and got 10/254
I guess rounding still doesn’t make it half but it is certainly close.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
It's half the guarantee.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
also nobody offers a 36 yo 25 per
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Which means you really have to like them as a 31-35 yo
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Which is not something to get mad at God about.
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Dec 13, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
I understood the context if you didn't I can't make you
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
The difference is Albert eventually got $25.4M for 10 years, not 5.
Whereas 3/150 would’ve made him the highest paid player ever on a AAV basis. It’s still ridiculous, but I want to keep the facts straight.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'm Waiting for Morenot.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
by a fink on Dec 13, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Great, I'm all like
“heh. I made a funny comment. I mean, Waiting for Godot jokes have been made frequently here, but not this one. Maybe I’ll even get a rec! Ooh. I’d like a rec. That would massage my fragile ego.” But no, not only do I get nothing, but WMT dives in and one-ups me. F’n WMT.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
by a fink on Dec 13, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You're worse than Khrushchev.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
by a fink on Dec 13, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Your comment needed this:
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Dec 13, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
REALLY REALLY MAD AT GOD.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
how do you use a "long clip" "out of context"?
If a clip is long, isn’t the clip its own context? Usually, the problem is taking short segments of an interview out of context.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 13, 2011 1:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
how would you use long clips out of context?
wouldnt short clips be better?
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Good sign
that someone is finally figuring out that their attempts as spin control aren’t poll testing well with any demographic.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 13, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
How hard would it have been to just say
“We loved the Cardinals, We love St. Louis, We love the Cardinal fans. It wasn’t just about the money, but the contract was a factor. I will always treasure my time with the Birds on the Bat, we accomplished a lot. I look forward to the new challenges that face me with the Angels, and bringing a championship to LA.”
And then leave it at that?
Grit != flat out sucking.
I'd rather she receive some negative feedback for her true feelings than for her to resort to PR speak.
I
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
New Press Release...
Deedee Pujols…
In response to Evilfrog, we’d like to make this statement with complete sincerety. We loved the Cardinals, We love St. Louis, We love the Cardinal fans. It wasn’t just about the money, but the contract was a factor. I will always treasure my time with the Birds on the Bat, we accomplished a lot. I look forward to the new challenges that face me with the Angels, and bringing a championship to LA.
Really nice to see her trying to move on and responding to the fans.
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
by pattimagee on Dec 13, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Sure
But her negative feedback makes no sense. Angels? God? Devil? Pujols Crying over being offered $30 Million Dollars a year?
I mean, if there was actual real feed back in there, that would have been great.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Exactly
She is just digging a bigger hole for her and Albert. If she and Albert think the Angels was the team God wanted them to go to, fine. But she said so many negative and seemingly mean-spirited things about St. Louis in the process.
also the comments about the offer
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I want a joy 99 station t shirt that says
“pujols went to LA and all I got is this crappy radio station”
Still miss classic 100
(I think im the only one)
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
We've been over this...
you’re far from the only one.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 13, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
yay
misery loves company
whats sad is I had just discovered it mere months before
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
So, I think I have this figured out
We are keeping Skip, probably paying him something like 1 WAR worth of money for two years. We are keeping McClellan and we aren’t sure about the details yet. We are non-tendering Theriot. Beltran hasn’t signed and there is chatter linking him to Colorado, maybe.
Is this pretty much accurate?
Also, keeping Motte.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
MLBTR had something up about the Dodgers not being sure if he even wanted to pitch in 2012
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
Oh...
I just skimmed through an article linked from his stats page at Fangraphs. He’s been through tons of injuries and surgeries. Hm. Well, if he can get healthy he’d be really nice in the bullpen.
despite all the injuries, he was phenomenal in 2008-2010, and that was post all of the major injuries and surgeries
i’d be much more inclined to chalk up his problems last year to his anxiety problems, so it makes this really hard to talk about, because we don’t really know anything, and won’t really know anything. i hope that if he is recovering/in therapy/etc, Mo makes a strong attempt to sign him, and if he has not, that we stay away. i also hope for his sake and the sake of baseball fans that he overcomes it, because he is just ridiculously fun to watch.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
OT: just how bad is the rams coaching?
bradford had a gimpy ankle with no wide receivers or much offensive line to speak of. they managed to drive the ball twice inside the five yard line of the seahawks and ran about 7 plays from inside the five. how many of those went to steven jackson? TWO. just dreadful…
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:28 AM EST reply actions
rams are frickin awful, fire spags
/end handegg discussion
by zoomzoomj88 on Dec 13, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it was Bernie that had the stat
that the Rams under Spags (45 games) have now scored as many offensive touchdowns as the 99 Rams did in 16 games.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
yep. he's been keeping track of that stat lately.
and if you take out the somewhat competence of last year, they’ve scored 28 touchdowns in 29 games…
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
well I knew he was a defensive orientated head coach...
I just didnt know he would do so much work to improve the opposing defenses
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm legitimately curious because you seem to post a lot about Rams football.
Isn’t there an SBN site for the Rams (or some other Rams fansite) where you can discuss this to your heart’s content with other Rams fans? It’s not even an OT discussion that comes about organically (like say something about music or smartphones or whatever) – it’s just consistent posting about another team in another sport on a site dedicated to a baseball team.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
We post lots of OT here because there is actual legitimate intelligent discussion about the topic here
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i rarely start the rams/football threads, usually just respond to them.
and yes, there is a rams blog on sb nation. and the writer does a very good job. unfortunately, the community just absolutely blows. there’s more intelligent rams fans here than there are over there between their 100 comment threads over nothing.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
I take sympathy on fang, as football blogs are pretty much worse than Corey Patterson.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
I bet Corey Patterson feels really awkward when his parents brag about how he's going to get a World Series Championship ring.
“But gosh mom, I didn’t even…”
“OH STOP dear you’re so good MY LITTLE CHAMPION!”
WWCD? CDGAF.
by JStymie on Dec 13, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 9 recs
says the guy who participated in the most unreadable thread of the day yesterday.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
wat
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
SQUIRREL!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
oh okay PJ.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
it's truly wonderful.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
it's all right
i kind of thought that at first, too, but i’m slowly getting tired of it.
this one is solid, though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4G3-OSnMY8
Whenever I listen to Atlas Sound, I can't help but think it sounds like a disappointing Deerhunter album.
That being said. Atlas Sound’s Parallax is better than The Green Lantern movie’s Parallax.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I loved Halcyon Digest.
It was one of my favorite albums last year.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
agreed.
I love Microcastle/Weird Era Cont. too
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 13, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
turfshowtimes
but I suppose if he feels a sense of community with the people here
and not there it would make SOME sense to discuss such things with people he likes here
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Someone needs to tell Josh McDaniels that
there’s only one Tom Brady. Because he’s been trying to turn guys who aren’t Tom Brady into Tom Brady for the last 3 seasons since he left the Pats.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
and to think i was legitimately excited to have him on board.
and to think the chiefs are actually going to consider hiring him. rams will be on their third OC in the last three years and their third HC in five years next year.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
If I were the Rams
I’d fire Spags and hire Jeff Fisher. And then let Jeff Fisher clean house.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
the worst part is that if i could fire one person in the organization mcdaniels nor spags would be #1
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
yes.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Personally
I think he should go but so should all of the scouting department. Mike Sims-Walker? Really?
heh...
i forget he was even on the team to start the year.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
and this is the problem with the rams...
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
jaguars aren't moving.
i still think the chargers are the most overlooked team for LA.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I really suspect it will be the Chargers
They have been trying for more than 10 years to get a stadium in SD County and cannot get it done. I think they will be gone.
#pujolscrieswhen someone discusses moving the jaguars to LA.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
jeff fisher
is like the physical personification of NASCAR
just his appearance
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
that was the worst section of an offensive football series i have ever seen in my life
not giving jackson the ball on five straight plays from the 1 yard line is possibly the most indefensible thing i have ever seen an NFL coach do.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
I've got it, let's call a naked bootleg with the hobbled face of the franchise quarterback
No one is expecting that.
it's just fucking ludicrous.
dude was born to run in that situation and you don’t give him the ball.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
thankfully they got bailed out by that idiot seahawks DB and they finally gave him the ball
because if that had ended like that, i don’t know about SJ’s mental health/likelyhood of strangling coach.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
then jackson trucked the same DB to score.
it was the perfect ending.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Goold retweets picture of new Marlins ballpark
Behold the awesomeness out in centerfield.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
is it just me or does the whole stadium look small?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
There was an image that had the PetCo dimensions outlined on the Marlins new stadium.
It’s going to be fairly large. Maybe not quite PetCo large, but large.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think it looks huge.
Centerfielders are going to be intimidated by the awesomeness.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Yeah, when I thought about it I decided it's pretty darn big.
Compare the frame of the Homerun Monstrosity to the seats near it, or the height of a fielder standing right next to the outfield wall. The thing is probably as big as my house.
nah...
distracted by the Jumbo tron.
That is f’in awesome.
by BigJawnMize on Dec 13, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think that's a Jumbotron
The picture was taken from the press box, which normally has monitors hanging from the ceiling like that.
No, that large black rectangle is the video board
The press box monitors are usually set further back (and probably aren’t installed yet).
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
twss
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 13, 2011 1:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was hoping it would DOMINATE the view
like you couldnt look away from it
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Fish Stripes
had a Fanshot of the basic skeleton of the sculpture a while back.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I thought for sure they'd have realized it was a bad idea by now.
Looks more like it belongs in Disney World.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
can't tell
but is that scoreboard behind the outfield wall? i have visions of the cowboys’ stadium or the Trop type structural interference
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Whats with the lack of market for Ed Jackson? I want some more picks!
"He probably misses his old glasses."
he's being boras'd.
he’ll sign in february.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he rejected arbitration
So we are going to get a pick, even if a team signs him for on a 1 year deal in April
no, he needs to sign at least a 12 million dollar a year contract, right?
Jackson’s on the borderline for that.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
No. That's what the Cards would've offered in arb
The average salary of the top 120 players or something like that
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 13, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
???
Joe Strauss @JoeStrauss Close
Source: Cards’ interest in upgrading pitching “understated” but very real. Lohse, Westbrook still in play.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
really though, lohse and westbrook i'm sure understandably love it here.
it’s going to be very hard to trade them and their salaries.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
As said upthread...
If I were Westbrook and I was told there was a chance I’d be put in the bullpen during a contract season, I’d rather be moved than stay… ya know… since money matters most n’stuff…
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
Except that this assumes that moving Westbrook to the bullpen will cost him money in the FA next year.
Why?
Westbrook is a known quantity as a starter. There is no ML team out there that, asuming health, doesn’t know what Westbrook is as a starter.
Assuming the Cards move him to the bullpen in 2012 favor of starters who everyone would agree are better (Waino, Carp, Garcia, Lohse, Mystery starter X), then teams looking for a starting pitcher in 2013 won’t think that the bullpen move was because Westbrook can’t pitch anymore, it’ll be because of roster considerations. This will be completely transparent to the market.
So, when Westbrook is again a FA in 2013, teams will still be looking at him as a starter, as he has been his entire career. He won’t magically become a “middle reliever” in their eyes. The only way Westbrook’s FA market tanks is that he pitches poorly 2012 — his market won’t tank merely because the Cards shifted him to the bullpen because they had 5 better starting pitchers.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
after a Shaky 2011 the SSS of a bullpen job for a guy who will be 35 yo
for his next contract, SD has money they need to spend and need to replace Harang’s innings Westy would benifit from half his starts in that hitters tomb(Harang and Garland both got 2 year deals)
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
The SSS of the bullpen job may help him. He'll already be 35, whether he's been in the bullpen or not -- his age is a constant here.
Look, if Westbrook wants to waive his NTC to pitch in lovely San Diego because he likes the weather, the women in La Jolla are hot as shit, the zoo is cool, and because he thinks it will benefit him in the 2013 FA market, then great, maybe the Cards can work out a worthwhile trade to SD.
All of that is different than just speculating and assuming that, somehow, pitching in the bullpen in 2012 because of roster considerations, not performance, will necessarily lower Westbrook’s FA market value in 2013 as a starter and that such a theory is compelling enough to cause Westbrook to voluntarily waive his NTC.
Westbrook may agree to waive his NTC, but IMO, it’s going to take actual consideration ($$, guaranteed option, etc.), not this theory, for him to do so.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Just fishing but...
The bullpen is unknown for Westbrook. Why would he take the risk going to the bullpen and failing miserably, doing okay/average… or even succeeding, really. None of those options increase his value as a starter. But, having a decent year as a starter, that is the only thing increasing his value as a free agent next year. I think that alone would push him to see what a trade could get him?
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
I just disagree with this reasoning.
- the bullpen is not an unknown, imo.
- I don’t see much, if any, risk of failing miserably merely because he’s in the bullpen. Westbrook may fail miserably (because he is old and declining, e.g,) but it is just as likely to happen as a starter (actually, more likely IMO) than in the bullpen.
- I don’t agree that having a decent year as a starter is the “only” way of increasing his value. I think team’s know Westbrook’s value as a starter (assuming health) already.
- I don’t see any chance that, standing alone, the risk of him going to the bullpen would push him to waive is NTC. (He may waive his NTC for a specific opportunity or a team that he likes (e.g. Cleveland), but the risk of going to the bullpen alone won’t cause him to do so).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...
If he were moved to the bullpen, I only see the value decreasing slightly.
You said it perfectly I think, “Westbrook may fail miserable (because he is old and declining, e.g,) but it is just as likely to happen as a starter (actually, more likely IMO) than in the bullpen.” I have a discerning feeling he’ll fail in both positions too…
I just think with him being a millionaire/baseball player/starting pitcher… his ego might get the better of him and he’d rather prove his skills as a starter and take the bullpen as almost an insult… I think I would… sans it being a closer job (which would never happen, I hope). But, I think he may see it as more risky, ego involved, going to the Cardinals Bullpen as opposed to Cleveland or San Diego.
All these feelings are biased because I’m not a huge Westbrook fan – I’d like him to be traded.
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
I just don't see westbrook waiving his NTC on account of him
maybe being insulted by moving him to the bullpen. He surely realizes that he is the 5th starter (the WS roster being the obvious evidence), so if they bring on another better starter, that’s where he’d go.
Why wouldn’t I assume that Westbrook accepts the assignment for the good of the team while recognizing that he’ll still get paid the same salary this year and will still get his buyout money next year, and with the desire not to move his family around or create hardship for them this late in his career? That too would be a reasonable assumption.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
this is almost certainly wrong.
There’s a decent chance westbrook looks terrible in the bullpen because bullpen stats are more volatile than starter stats, for the simple reason that 70 IP is a smaller sample than 200 IP.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 13, 2011 1:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ok, bullpen stats are more volatile because they are a smaller sample.
No kidding.
By making this obvious point, what point of mine is being shown to be “wrong”?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
because if westie posts a good-luck bullpen performance, he doesn't help his cause much at all.
he’s not going to be paid like a closer, since he hits 90 mph on a good day (see ryan franklin for evidence that decent performance by a slow-pitch reliever does not create 8-figure contracts). and a decent performance as a middle reliever does nothing to increase his value as a starter.
on the other hand, if he posts a terrible bullpen performance, his value will definitely decline. who wants to pay market value for a starter who a) didn’t start last year and b) stunk in the bullpen?
one has to acknowledge that there are some very fine lines in the market for back-end starters. the guys in the back-end starter market are all kind of okay pitchers, with marginal between them in terms of performance. how well someone pitches in the most recent season and how many innings he throws are very important factors as to whether a pitcher gets paid top dollar as a backend starter (2y/$10m) or bottom dollar (1y/$3m). moving to the bullpen certainly deprives westbrook of a chance to prove he can throw 180 or 200 innings. and it increases the risk that his 2012 stats look like absolute crap.
moving to the bullpen is almost all risk with no upside for westbrook.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
I disagree. What you're talking about
Is only the chance that he pitches poorly in the bullpen but only because the SSS of the bullpen keeps his numbers from evening out and they are overly-influenced by bad luck.
Otherwise, it’s just Westbrook pitching poorly generally, and that risk is the same whether he’s in the rotation or the bullpen (actually I’m being conservative, because it’s been established as a general matter that a pitcher’s numbers improve in the bullpen when moving from the rotation)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 14, 2011 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
Hmmmm...
(actually I’m being conservative, because it’s been established as a general matter that a pitcher’s numbers improve in the bullpen when moving from the rotation)
As a general rule, yes, but how many guys who throw 88 mph on a regular basis even get a chance to pitch in the bullpen. I think you’re comparing Westbrook to a bunch of pitchers that may not have much in common with Jake Westbrook by making this analogy.
I guess I feel like Westbrook would be better in the rotation if we’re focusing on what would be best for Jake Westbrook. All things equal, a bad performance in either the rotation or the bullpen is bad for him, but a good performance in the rotation probably earns him another contract, whereas a good performance in the bullpen probably doesn’t earn him a spot in any rotation or a bullpen going forward. Not to mention: A 4/5 starter on the FA market is worth around $5M. A middle reliever? Probably about 60% of that or less.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
...
I guess I feel like Westbrook would be better in the rotation if we’re focusing on what would be best for Jake Westbrook.
I agree with this and I think everyone else would as well. The question is whether the mere threat of being moved to the bullpen would be enough for Westbrook to waive his NTC because (ostensibly) Westbrook would think that such a move would significantly hurt his FA market pay in 2013. Most here think that it is somewhat obvious that Westbrook would waive his NTC in this circumstance.
What I’m saying above (which is part of the overall argument) is that a good (or just expected) performance in the bullpen will not affect his ability to get a rotation spot on the FA market — why? Because no team will consider Westbrook to be “just” a middle reliever – his career as a starter and the reasons why he was shifted to the bullpen (i.e., roster considerations, not performance) are transparent to other clubs. They will still consider him to be a starting pitcher candidate.
Indeed, it is easy to make an argument that having a bad year in the bullpen will be discounted by other teams because they will give Westbrook a pass based on his inexperience there.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 14, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Because Westbrook's last season in the rotation had a 4.66 ERA
That’s not gonna earn him a big contract, especially if he’s 36. He needs to have a good season out of the rotation.
You’re crazy if you don’t think a year in the bullpen won’t lower this value.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
They love it here. What ballplayer wouldn't love it here?
Everyone wants to be a Cardinal. They want to be CARDINALS FOR LIFE!
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 13, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
I don't really like any of the FA starters
Wei-Yin Chen (26)
Bartolo Colon (39)
Aaron Cook (33)
Kyle Davies (28)
Doug Davis (36)
Zach Duke (29)
Jeff Francis (30)
Armando Galarraga (30)
Jon Garland (32)
Aaron Harang (34) – Type B, offered arbitration
Rich Harden (30)
Livan Hernandez (37)
Hisashi Iwakuma (31)
Edwin Jackson (28) – Type B, offered arbitration
Hiroki Kuroda (37) – Type B, no arbitration offer
Rodrigo Lopez (36)
Paul Maholm (30)
Jason Marquis (33)
Kevin Millwood (37)
Sergio Mitre (31)
Ross Ohlendorf (29)
Roy Oswalt (34) – Type A, no arbitration offer
Brad Penny (34)
Joel Pineiro (33)
Jo-Jo Reyes (27)
Joe Saunders (31)
Mitch Talbot (28)
Javier Vazquez (35)
Tsuyoshi Wada (31)
Tim Wakefield (45)
Brandon Webb (33)
Chris Young (33)
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 13, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
i'd take Harden as a reliever
Jo-El is a FA? i’d probably take him again on a flier of a 1 year deal if we offloaded Westy or Lohse.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
Wakefield!
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 13, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'd take... dare I say it...
Edwin Jackson?
I don’t get why there isn’t much talk about him.
Also, Hiroki Kuroda and Roy Oswalt could be interesting, depending on cost.
Well, lots of people (myself included) seemed to assume he'd get a Lohse-like deal this off-season and we would rather just let him go and get a draft pick (assuming we would get one, I am not certain)
There hasn’t been much buzz but I’ve also seen the opinion from many that he’s a Boras client and therefore it will drag on forever and he’ll sign in February or something.
I would be very interested in landing Oswalt for 2 years, but he seems to want a lot of money for his current abilities.
But if they can get him for the right price, I’d be all for it. Oswalt would help bridge the gap to our prospects being ready.
WWCD? CDGAF.
Oswalt is aging and has a bad back. I wonder how effective he'll be going forward.
Oswalt Career: 7.35 K/9, 2.09 BB/9, 3.21 ERA, 3.35 FIP, 3.58 xFIP
Oswalt 2011: 6.02 K/9, 2.14 BB/9, 3.69 ERA, 3.44 FIP, 3.95 xFIP
Lohse 2011: 5.30 K/9, 2.01 BB/9, 3.39 ERA, 3.67 FIP, 4.04 xFIP
One can be kept on a one-year deal and appears to be over his forearm compartmental syndrome surgery. The other has a history of back troubles—most recently, last season—and will require two or three years. I’m not so sure I want Oswalt.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Oswalt would be an upgrade over Westbrook, sure, but how much?
I guess that was my point in referencing Lohse. Oswalt may not be as big an upgrade as our memories tell us he would be. Obviously, it depends on money and the trades that would make it happen but I’m not terribly excited about Oswalt on a multi-year deal with his history of back troubles. Is Oswalt plus the rotation fill-in for when he misses time that much better than Lohse or Westbrook?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I agree after seeing those numbers + injury concerns
I was still picturing him as the Astros’ ace and part of the Phillies’ Four Aces.
I think the money would be better spent on an OF.
I wasn't really thinking of him as an ace, or a replacement for Lohse, but instead a replacement for Westbrook.
My thought on Oswalt is… yes, he is declining, and maybe I didn’t watch him enough to see the downsides, but even with his overall numbers declining, he seemed fairly consistent, that you knew what you were going to get on his starting days. The question is if he’s willing to sign for 5th starter money.
Though you’re right about the injuries, I wasn’t really taking that into consideration.
WWCD? CDGAF.
His performance may be more consistent but his ability to make starts will likely be more inconsistent.
I believe we need to consider Oswalt’s replacement when he is unable to pitch due to his balky back when assessing him as a potential upgrade or sideways move for the rotation.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
So anyone we would sign
Would have to worth more than Westbrook or Lohse PLUS what ever salary we have to pay to trade them.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 13, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
The MLB.com Blue Jays blog confirms that cash completed the Rasmus trade.
Goold did earlier, I know, but here it is again. Apparently the amount of such cash considerations are never disclosed.
When the Blue Jays traded for outfielder Colby Rasmus in July there were three players to be named later or cash considerations going to the Cardinals as part of the deal.
Blue Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos confirmed to MLB.com on Monday night that cash considerations were sent to St. Louis to complete the trade. There will not be any players to be named later going to the Cardinals as part of the transaction.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Or $44 million.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
So, it seems the cosensus here
is that Mrs. Pujols was a bit off-base in her accusations of no guaranteed 10 year deal, Albert begging to come back but the evil DeWitt not budging, etc.?
The thing that really surprised me is that the Cards DIDN’T talk about a “personal services” contract. To me, that seemed the perfect way to get the overall contract value up a bit while not hamstringing the team’s payroll in the latter years of the contract. I thought last week, before the Angels got involved, that we should have offered him a 8/184-192 base contract with a couple of player options for, say, $18-20 followed by a $1M/yr services contract for 10 years or so. Heck, promise him the hitting coach job when he retires.
He would have a hard time with being a hitting coach.
…after all everyone else are men and he is a machine.
He'd keep trying to tell them to just download and install the patch already.
they just wouldn’t get it.
by mattybobo on Dec 13, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure how common it is for personal service contracts to be built into playing contracts.
Bernie on 101ESPN yesterday said he thought Ozzie had one. Would that have even been from this ownership?
2011 - Year of Our Berk
I think the personal service contract pisses me off more than the actual contract.
You want to be paid to hang out with Stan Musial, Bob Gibson and Ozzie Smith while 45,000 people give you a standing O? Fuck off, pal. Go enjoy hanging out with Tim Salmon on Angels Legends Night.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 13, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 17 recs
Do any of us know what exactly a personal services contract is?
I’m sure they vary…. Does Ozzie Smith or Bob Gibson have one? Would the player under contract have to do lots of appearances or just a couple per year?
Sign Roy O
I wonder how common they are too
I know I’ve heard of them being part of playing contract negotiations before. I don’t remember for whom. I tend to agree w/ Fritz that someone shouldn’t ask to be paid a fee for those type appearances, but I think it may be more common than we think (but not under a “contract”). I was thinking of it more as a different way to defer some $‘s to later. (and, apparently, it struck a cord with Albert, or maybe not, maybe it was just the $’s).
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 13, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Here's an example.
Story about Nolan Ryan’s PSC with Houston, signed in 2004.
I think his 10 year PSC with Texas (from 94-03) was similar to this one.
(Yeah, I keep using Ryan, but he’s the only big time example I can think of.)
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
From the link:
Ryan will work in various areas of the Astros organization, including on-field help at the direction of manager Jimy Williams.
Ryan owns the Astros Double-A affiliate at Round Rock and will spend much of his time working with Astros’ minor leagues. He’ll also spend time at spring training in March.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It's silly to pay a player to come back and wave to the fans...
players are going to want to that and most will be willing to do it for free. They get used to being the center of attention and then they are forgotten about once they retire. Plus coming back and interacting with fans helps their brand and whatever other business pursuits they might have.
In Pujols case, not to insult the man’s intelligence, but what do the Cardinals really want from him after he stops being able to hit the crap out of the ball? Insight into managing? I’ve seen enough of that – a surly personality that helps run off talented players and idiotic on the field decisions, ill conceived hit and runs, and so forth.
Sign Roy O
maybe its not silly for previous generations of players
that didnt make anywhere near the money that players are making today
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
rec
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
And Rod Carew
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
(he converted)
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 13, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
LOL good one
Yea his best years were with the Twins, but he still lives in Orange County. I wouldn’t be surprised if he preferred the Angels after that whole thing in Minnesota.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
and Bobby Grich!
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Nolan Ryan played his best years there too.
Four of his seven no-hitters as well.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
i'm pretty sure
You want to be paid to hang out with Stan Musial, Bob Gibson and Ozzie Smith while 45,000 people give you a standing O? Fuck off, pal.
That Stan Musial, Bob Gbison, and Ozzie Smith are being paid in this scenario to hang out with each other. I’m not sure if they have a yearly contract, or are just paid on an appearance bases. But this is a business. And they are business men.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Of course they are.
And random guests like Willie McGee and David Eckstein are compensated as well.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
I seem to remember reading a story that the LAA personal services contract makes him an advisor to Moreno.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yea, something, somewhere said that.
Advisor for like 10 years. Which seems odd, given that nobody knows how long Moreno will own the team for. 20 years out seems like a long shot.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
if moreno dies,
would pujols be freed from the personal services contract?
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
or what happens if they trade Pujols to the Rays in 2018?
does he become their ambassador for 10 years?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
"Advisor"
I picture him being Moreno’s personal assistant in 10 years. Hilarity makes it easier.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
"Yes, Mr. Moreno, that suit looks really nice. Should I have it taken in a little at the hips?"
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
Suits should always be cinched at the waist
Well, for a reasonably fit person
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I imagine him in a Vader-to-Emperor capacity...
up in a box above the Death Star Angels Stadium, in a suit made to hold together his lava-scorched injury-wrecked elbow, hamstring, feet, and lungs, forced to watch AJ fill in his shoes as a Cardinal for LifeTM.
“You do not know the power of the Personal Services Contract. I MUST obey my master.”
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 13, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I liked it too
guess I should have said so earlier…
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 13, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks!
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 13, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Pujols is really not smart
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure they get expenses paid
but do their agents get anything? What is 5% of a red blazer?
by baked mcbride on Dec 13, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
I would expect they're getting more than expenses paid
I would doubt many of them are going to Jupiter every spring just for the fun of it.
this is all just post-hoc rationalization by them
ignore it
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
wasn't putting too much stock in it
I just didn’t remember her speaking out much before and it surprised me (and, if true, made me mad at DeWitt).
In the end, there’s certainly enough blame for both parties, Albert could/should have taken the 9/198 contract last spring (if he really wanted to stay) and the club could have offered more than $80 for the last 5 years of the final contract offer (above the 130/5 they were willing to spend).
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 13, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
up until the Angels did that I had never heard of such a contract
I think it was a given that he would be involved after retirement
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Trying to keep him away from the Cards
as much as keeping him in Anaheim. Moreno doesn’t have much of a legacy for his team so he is buying one. Can’t touch the Dodgers on that front – this is his attempt to close the gap.
ZiPS projects Beltran at .282/.363/.474 in 2012
And .275/.351/.366 in 2013
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
yikes
why the huge drop in slugging? Just age, I guess?
That 2012 line looks very decent though.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
It's one heck of a typo, is what it is.
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Oh yeah my b
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I think he was just trying to break the stereotype
after his asian joke
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
nbd. I did have a small heart attack though, since Beltran is already on the team in my mind.
which is more my fault, really.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
the Cards will turn him into a slap hitting lead off man
in the vein of Skip
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Using wOBA = (2*OBP + SLG)/3, that's a .400 wOBA
(.400-.316)/1.15 * 600 = 43.8 wRAA
I’m going to assume -5 in RF full time
-7.5 positional adjustment
+20 runs replacement
5.13 WAR full time
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
That doesn't change the final WAR, theoretically
He’d just be like -15 in CF with a +2.5 positional adjustment
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Yes, I know this
But sometimes you need to estimate wOBA using only slashline information
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
That's not a very good estimation though I don't believe
The sensitivity on being wrong is really high. That’d have put Puma’s wOBA at .457 last year instead of .402…..and there’s no way that Puma’s .301/.412/.547 is less than 5 runs better than .282/.363/.474
Not afraid to nitpick
Okay
I was just trying to get an estimate of WAR based on the ZiPS slashline
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Jus' sayin that math gets you that Berkman was an 8 WAR player last year...
[Obvious Asian joke here]
Not afraid to nitpick
so like 4 WAR
or as i like to call it, way better than skip schumaker.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
yeah that doesn't equal a .400 wOBA
C’mon Rui, you’ll never get hired by Luhnow with that!
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Holy crap you nerds
Just wanted to do a quick calculation for you guys
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
yeah, FYI
The quickie wOBA is (1.75 OBP + SLG)/3.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
sweeeeet
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
wOBA wasn't meant to be calculated on the back of a napkin, you heathen!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 13, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
worst calculation ever
/comic book guy
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
try this
http://www.3-dbaseball.net/2009/11/converting-obpslg-to-woba.html
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
SIGN THIS GUY
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
If we sign this man im buying his jersey
When he played for Houston and the Mets, I had nightmares but nothing but respect and hate for him. He kept ruining days by being ridiculous. I know that was in the past but i just imagine he will become some sort of superpower if he got to wear a Cardinals uniform. I would love to see him play for the Cardinals! Do it Mo
Cards fan in Seoul.
Albert Pujols is the hero saint louis deserves, but not the one it can afford right now. So we'll strike him out out because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's an A-Rod
by letsgostlcardinals on Dec 13, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
maybe he is reluctant to sign because of PTSD
about seeing Waino every day
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn't want to get whacked in the
head with Waino’s ring on the plane.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 13, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 13, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
now Lego can return the favor to Waino
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
beltran is such an obvious fit
now he’s being lined to the rockies… sigh.
we have money to spend, he’s a perfect fit, there aren’t many other viable alternatives. come on mo
Totally agree
25 man roster has pretty much 24 slots filled with a payroll of a little less than 99M. Let’s get Beltran at 12-14M for a couple years and enjoy the hollidays.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 13, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Which makes you wonder:
Is there really something horribly wrong with his medicals that is shying teams away from him? Because it’s not just us that he fits well with. It’s every contending team in the National League from 2011.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
There's hope.
Rumor is Willingham will make a decision in the next 48 hours and may choose the Twins. If he does, Cuddyer likely goes to the Rockies, who have a firm offer in to him. Then Beltran has nowhere else to go.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
why the hell would anyone ever view beltran and cuddyer as equivalent?
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Good scotch?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Cuddyer is versatile?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Cuddyer can stand at 2B/3B and watch balls fly past him
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
by TomCat009 on Dec 13, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
cocaine's a hell of a drug
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
According to Danny Knobler of CBS Sports:
One advantage of Cuddyer over Beltran for Rockies: Cuddyer could play 1B, and Rockies don’t really have anyone to play there post-Helton.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Because beltran can't play 1B, obvi
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
If I have to watch a guy with a career
.264/.326/.433 against RHP replace Todd Helton I will be really sad.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I was a Cards fan until 93, I loved the Whiteyball Cards and have followed
them since. I am an unabashed homer so when my hometown got MLB, I switched my allegiance but the Cards were my first love and Holliday was my favorite player when he was here.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
well, that seems sensible except for the part where it's dumb, through and through.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
Yeah
A minus defensive outfielder has significantly less value in Coors value than anywhere else in the big leagues (caveat: depending on how you think the park also affects good/bad hitters). He has more value to the Cards.
Not afraid to nitpick
i would think defense would be more valuable in Busch
Especially for outfielders since this is a Pitcher’s park
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 13, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Coors is by far the biggest park in the big leagues
Being a bad defender is amplified massively when the power alleys are 390-400 and it’s 350 down the line. It’s a big HR park, but what makes it so brutal is that it makes 1B/2B/3B more likely too (whereas most HR parks suppress those through compacted dimensions)
Not afraid to nitpick
I think he would be okay in RF since he is replacing a run of Seth Smith/Brad Hawpe
whatever is wrong with his legs he still better than those two
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Sign sign sign sign sing
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
I see what you did there
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 13, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Looking over the list of non-tenders
Jeff Keppinger worth a look? I’m not sure if he’s any better than Descalso/Greene combo and I guess with Skip on the roster their probably isn’t any room for him anyway.
by rumors on Dec 13, 2011 1:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Absofuckinglutely not
as you said above we’ve got Descalso, Greene, Craig, etc…I’d rather see the Koz get a shot before Keppinger.
Something clever...
I cannot hear his
name w/o thinking of Don Kessinger, a worn-out ex-Cub SS the Cardinals traded for in the 70s. Don’t know that I could go a whole season with that image in my head. No.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 13, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
the nontender list is interesting.
Andy Sonnenstine sure fell off a cliff.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 13, 2011 2:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the list of non-tenders makes me sad.
knowing most of those guys are just simply finished playing baseball.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
At least Theriot is gone!
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 13, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'm really hoping Willingham signs with the Twins
Which then creates a Domino effect
Cuddyer then signs with Colorado since the Twins will be out
Which leads to Beltran signing with the Cards since the Rox will be out
So I got my
“Authentic” Mitchell and Ness Willie McGee Jersey in the mail yesterday. They did a pretty good forgery. They are getting better. I will say they would have had me convinced it was real if they remembered the black armband but they didn’t. Although I will say it looks better than the Majestic ones you pay 100 bucks for at the Cardinals store at the mall.
Does it have the yellow eyes?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Naw I can see the whites of their eyes!
I mean it’s pretty good. For 42 bucks it’s good enough. I like it better than the majestic actually. The only thing it’s missing is the black armband. It came from Singapore if it makes any difference.
The beauty of the 80s M&N jersey embroidery is a sight to behold.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Well
at least I can spill many a beer on this one and not worry too much about it! The funny thing was the tags they put on it. It was for Football AND Soccer…from Adidas. Hilarious!
by OKCardsfan on Dec 13, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So it turns out the class I dropped in October because I thought the TA did a shitty job grading fired the TA for not actually grading
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
...not sure what to say to that...
Welcome to college?
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 13, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a junior and I haven't had this happen before
but I wanted to tear him a new asshole when I tried to talk to him two months ago, but I held back because I didn’t want to get in trouble with the Dean. I just e-mailed the professor asking what happened
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 13, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, Prof confirmed it
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 13, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
VEB all pissy these last two days
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
SHUT UP
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
I'M SICK OF HAVING MY MENTAL CONDITION CALLED IN TO QUESTION
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
it's Albertopause.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
by tehzachatak on Dec 13, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 11 recs
I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW I HAVE ALL THE WINDOWS OPEN IN DECEMBER BECAUSE IT'S VERY HOT IN HERE.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
I'll check your prostate for you
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
oh you doctor now?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
he's asian, of course he's a doctor
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
by tehzachatak on Dec 13, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
lololol
One of my friends dads said at a BBQ a couple years ago “at my age a good day pretty much consists of finding a vietnamese doctor with slender fingers.”
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Dec 13, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
WOW
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
You express incredulity at weird things
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
your mom has taught me well.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
wat
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i just wanted to insert something that didn't make any sense.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
well my first comment didn't make any sense, might as well continue.
/walks away
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
That's awesome
I have slender fingers ;)
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
who is turing test?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think anyone would be surprised if it turned out to be another clank puppet.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
I'd be surprised if it wasn't.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm surprised.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'll keep my eye out for it.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
it's a form of self-critical thinking
very therapeutic.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
oh I didn't mean ask him who it is
just confirm it isn’t me. But it you want to believe it, sure.
Still not a werewolf.
You're starting to sound like Y2S (hypothetically).
But yeah, I believe it wasn’t you.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
i mean
you guys know that there are still people left that haven’t registered VEB accounts and become regular members, right. maybe turing test is just turing test
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
If anyone thinks I don't ferret these out as soon as I can,
they are wrong. But they’re more fun when you don’t know who they are. I know primarily as part of me screening for previously banned members.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
who is stlcardinalsfang?
who are any of us? why are we here? are we turing complete?
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ask tebow
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Or Cody
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
See I have thought all along that Tebow might be another Cody account
he does seem lifelike in a 17yo sort of way.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
bayless claimed t--never mind, you don't give a shit about football.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Tebow > Signing Skip Schumaker to a 2-yr Deal
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
we should make tebow a baseball stat somehow.
maybe wOBet?
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Jared Schumaker
But he goes by Skip
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
this is a weird sub thread
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 13, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Why are any of us here?
I think it was Jean-Paul Sartre who once said . . . how do you spell Sartre?
Stupid UCL's.
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 13, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Last year, Jake Westbrook gave up a .284 BABIP with bases empty and a .350 BABIP with Men On
And .355 with RISP
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Or he loses velocity and command
which leads to him getting hit all over the ballpark like a pitching machine.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Or it's bad luck and he's due for regression
Lots of possible explanations, just thought it was interesting
Most interesting, I think, is the vast change in HR rates by state. 1.15 HR/9 empty, .95 HR/9 with men on base. That’s why I like having a guy like Furcal batting leadoff… pitchers are going to pound the zone, and he has the ability to hit one out at a decent rate
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I'd really like to see his splits compared to his career and to league average
for him pitching out of the stretch vs. pitching out of the windup. Seems like he really struggled out of the stretch this season which led to a lot of big innings.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I distinctly remember several games
where Westbrook looked like he was dominating for several innings. But then somebody finally walks or gets a bloop to drop in, and WB would just completely unravel. I can believe he has some sort of problem with the stretch delivery.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Also,
how many times did one walk lead to several walks in the same inning? Which would then result in a double that scored multiple runs?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
yeah
I wonder if there’s a way to investigate this further, to see if the stretch affected his command, his movement, or both, or what.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I don't know of a pitch F/X database that has splits for this
VEP? Az? Do you know if this is something we can research?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
you could use runners on base as a proxy for the stretch with some degree of confidence....
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I'll do some checking on this and see if I can find some numbers to crunch
If the data show something intriguing, I’ll stick it in a FanPost.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Using Pitch f/x would help you to detect the base causes of the split
but it wouldn’t do a good job of valuing them. You’d have to compare his Pitch f/x by season in order to see if anything has changed, and then you have to find an objective way to value that change.
Westbrook’s career split is empty: .289 and bases: .307. So that’s a .018 point split. This year it’s .065. I doubt the bulk of that is anything other than bad luck, although I can certainly buy that Westbrook might be worse from the stretch this year.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but dude, that's not going to account for a .070 point split
That’s far bigger than the overall spread for pitcher BABIP skill.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
I'll stick with my "from the stretch" scenario
It seems much more plausible than that thing called “luck”
in this case the word "luck"
only refers to something that is statistically anomalous.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
You think?
BABIP empty: 0.294
BABIP Men on Base: 0.294
BABIP RISP: 0.289
These are leaguewide from 2002-2011
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Why you scallywag!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Plus
There is no way even the best fielding pitcher can field enough balls to ever truly impact their BABIP against.
I was simply trying to fit into the VEB crowd by giving a non-serious answer to a serious question/statement.
hmm, that's interesting
i wonder if that RISP is a statistically significant difference- i would have to believe so given the size of the data set. that surprises me, i’d think if anything the BABIP with RISP would be HIGHER, as the fielders are (maybe theoretically) paying additional attention to the batters? interesting.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
I would think so. They're uniformly lower in every single year
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
yeah i would be stunned if it wasn't
so why? it’s clearly not a big difference, but i wonder what accounts for it. BABIP probably goes up with the infield in, also, no?
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
Maybe it has to do with batter approach?
With a man on third and 0 or 1 outs, theyr’e just trying to loft it?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
yeah, that seems to be a big enough sample to derive some conclusions.
i am just not sure what conclusions to draw.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
more relievers pitch in the stretch
probably half of that sample is relievers compared against nothing on the other side.
Starting pitchers are generally going to be significantly worse from the stretch.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Is that because they have a drop in performance?
Or because pitching with runners on base is, in itself, more stressful?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
both I would think
there’s also some selection bias as runners are on base more often for the heart of the lineup. and vice versa.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 14, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Let's hope our
legendary pitching coach can get to the bottom of this.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 13, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Good call
This obviously means the Skip and Theriot choked when runners were on base.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
Pulls a vocal cord. Out 4-6 weeks.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 13, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
god i fucking love matt holliday
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
"After looking at the numbers here, I agree."
Funny how that shit works.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This is great.
I love how he cites the stats and one of them says, “I agree after looking at the stats.” Why wouldn’t you look at the stats before opening your mouth and criticizing a guy as being injury prone?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
because radio hosts get paid to say things that are provocative rather than true?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
I'm really glad Matt Holliday is a Cardinal
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 13, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
He wasn't Pujols but Rockies fans miss him
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I was just in Denver. Saw a lot of Holliday love still going on
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Dec 13, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
I brought my girlfriend to her first St. Louis Cardinals game this last season.
And her only live MLB game before (she’d been to Springfield Cards with me before) was a Denver game because she has family in the area. I was running through the Cardinals roster with her so she’d be familiar with them and although she’d heard plenty of the names, when I got to Holliday she got excited because she had remembered him from that game.
I don’t know how that was relevant to the above post, but oh well.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
He carried the team down the stretch on that 21 of 22 stretch covering the
final 13 games the NLDS and NLCS. Big Daddy had a .365/.447/.788 in September of that year with 12 HR he was a beast in every sense of the word, how do you not love a guy like that?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I love how Holliday makes Frank look like a bitch
not that it’s all that hard, but Frank seemed a little shaky there
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone would be shaky if they pronounced a player to be "injury prone" without looking at stats.
Then Holliday comes in and throws all of these stats out there and you can tell they knew that they were in the wrong.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Frank was probably thinking
“I’ll just say he’s injury prone, get a discussion going, blah blah blah” I bet he never thought that
1. Matt Holliday would call in
2. People apparently listen to his show
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
Frank was totally wrong...
but I still felt sorry for him being called out on it like that. Lol
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
this is so amazingly awesome.
<3 u matt
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
As I said last week
Frank Cusamano is considered “decent radio” in the STL market and is able to hold a regular gig, but Bryan Burwell is a bridge too far. That’s how much influence Burwell has, but yet somehow he is still able to mail in a column regularly.
Oh and while on the subject, this article is old but hilarious…
Ratings game costs Burwell radio job
Station program director Jason Barrett confirmed what sources said, that listenership to the show Burwell co-hosted with Bob Stelton was higher when Burwell was absent and that was the primary reason Burwell was removed.
That’s despite the fact Burwell, a Post-Dispatch sports columnist, is under contract — and will be paid by 101.1 FM management — for the rest of the year.
“I like Bryan personally, but the reality is the audience was more interested in the show when we had a different combination,” Barrett said Thursday. “We’re in a results-oriented business and the show’s performance was not up to par with the rest of the radio station. Therefore, we’re making a change to try to provide a better listen for the audience.”
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 13, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
I love that he keeps saying "plate appearances"
and not “at bats”.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Has anyone listened to the BJ rains interview with Tyler Greene?
I was just wondering if anything notable came out of it, particularly if Greene has been instructed to work more at 2nd.
Considering BJ's radio show literally has a 0.0 rating, I kind of doubt it.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
BJ Rains has a radio show?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
A Greene/Descalso platoon at 2B would be the best we could possibly hope for at this point I think.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Moz did say that most of Skip's time will be spent in the OF.
Maybe Skip as 4th OF with Greene/DD at 2nd will be the primary arrangement.
Makin' toast!
DING
Butterin' toast!
Sadly, absent a Beltran signing,
I think we’ll see Skip as the starting RFer until Craig returns. That’s just my own speculation, though.
Makin' toast!
DING
Butterin' toast!
my xmas present to VEB
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 4:29 PM EST reply actions
courtesy marecek
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Better than the one with Rasmus on the cover?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
...
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
it was too hard to get him off the cover...
#lazyrasmus
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Rasmus is currently Mr. December on my calendar right now
(but it also has Ryan and Ludwick in it too I think)
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
So I went over to TCB to see their reaction to the Luhnow thing
Is this comment not really fucking weird?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Are you referencing the role model comment?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yes
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I love this one more:
Sorry if this is off topic. But Luhnow is avant-garde, hip, and cool; He’s just the kind of person I could model myself after. And I just wanted to share how something as simple as his hiring as Astros GM has affected my life.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 13, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
that one is even better if you put the emphasis on "just"
in the second sentence, after the semi-colon. as in,
oh my! i’ve found him! he’s JUST the person!
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
also im pretty sure they are going to have to find a new GM in a couple of years
after they arrest that internet poster for wearing his face
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
you know ive never SEEN Luhnow before
now im picturing him as some crazy looking performance artist
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
He'll be played by Dave Foley in the movie version.
by mattybobo on Dec 13, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
So that's 2 movies about GM's in the AL West?
Somewhere Brian Cashman is kicking his cat….
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
One of those corny text blocks about where they are now
“Allen Craig had offseason knee surgery after he married his longtime girlfriend and is doing well”
“Lance Berkman enjoyed his first WS and continued to be awesome”
“Albert Pujols [section not found]”
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's what I'm talking about!
“David Freese went on to play 13 more seasons before retiring. He was eventually elected the younger mayor in St. Louis history”
"Torty met a hippo at the St. Louis Zoo and fell in love."
by tomsteele on Dec 13, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
FOR TORTY AND DEEDEE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivu5LDQeHJ4
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
rec'd for Kids In The Hall reference
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 13, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
please someone employ dave foley.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
surely that is not some wild party baseball statsman
thats the face of a buttoned down comptroller
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
that just screams avant garde
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
artist shot for the lead tenor from the local community choir
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
i never thought such kindness could be seen in the face of such a god
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
wow one rec gets a green?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Look at how many comments they have.
I went over to Fish Stripes during the whole Pujols saga just to see if they had any inside info and the lack of commenting made me sad.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
you could tell it was a joke, right?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Dude I don't know his posting history
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Nah, BustaPozee is Jeff Luhnow
That’s why he’s so good at guessing what he would do.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, I saw that
Sounds like something a VEBer might say.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone think Mo will sign Ludwick
after Beltran signs with another team? I can see this being possible. A decent bench bat?
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
But he qualifies as low hanging fruit.
And won’t take too much $$$ out of the Cards dry powder. I wouldn’t put it past them to do this.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
you asked if ludwick was a decent bench bat.
no. ludwick is pretty bad. he is redundant. there is no reason to sign him.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I agree
That post was tongue in cheek. As in I’m not expecting Mo to sign a Beltran type.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
Yeah he's never taken a short-term risk on an injury prone older player who used to be elite
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
If by decent you mean replacement level
But he plays good defense!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
no.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
And this is how the universe ends:
Someone using that camera to slow down porn….
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
by fourstick on Dec 13, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
People would just keep watching because it took so long...
and then forget to eat or drink, and just die? It’s like planet Miranda in Serenity.
Or maybe you mean that the pure awfulness of such a creation just wouldn’t be allowed by the fabric of reality?
No
by slowing down the video to the speed of light, they trap light and create a black hole that swallows up the universe. All because someone at MIT couldn’t get laid….
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
This seems like a comment searching for a response....
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I assumed this was some jab at Rui
for not being able to get laid…even though he’s married.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
that was interesting
however, the explanation of how a 1D camera makes a 2D image gave me a headache
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
does anyone have sprint?
how do the phone upgrades. i logged in to see when i was eligible for a phone upgrade (i’m ~19 months into my contract) and it says i’m eligible for no upgrade discount and that in 109 days (i guess when my contract expires, i’m eligible for a $150 discount on a phone with a 2-year contract (so, $500 for an iphone 4S, plus a 2-year contract). surely this isn’t right. that’s absurd
what's absurd about this?
also, the iphone 4S isn’t 500 dollars. there’s one that is 199, 299, and 399.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
therefore if that discount applies,
it’d be 49, 149, 249. however, i’m not sure it would.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
yes, those are the prices with a new 2-year contract
without a new 2-year contract, they are $649, 749 and 849
it’s absurd because with att, for example, you can upgrade at about 1.5 years or so and with a new contract, get phones at the new contract prices
if you buy the phone straight up
you don’t need a contract.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
...okay
but then in 109 days, i am eligible to get a $150 discount on these phones if i sign a new 2-year contract, which would mean the iphones would be $500, 600 and 700
no.
because if you buy the phone with a contract, it’s not 649 dollars. it’s 199 dollars.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
if you buy the phone without a contract,
it would be 649 dollars, but you have the benefit of theoretically being able to switch carriers without paying an early termination fee because instead of a two year commitment, you’re paying month to month.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
it doesn't show you new contract pricing
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
i suspect it sees you're not upgrade eligible currently,
so it quotes you the higher price. in order to get the 199 price you need to be a new customer with a new two year agreement or be a current, upgrade eligible customer.
the pricing for you, once you’re upgrade eligible, will be 199, 299, or 399 dependent on which model you buy. not sure if the discount would apply in this case.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
No, at that point you'll get the contract price.
I think you’re confusing the new contract price with the discount you would get for staying with Sprint without a contract or keeping your current contract (i.e. contract extension).
Sprint will want to put you in a new plan rather than extend your existing plan, which is why they offer you a better rate on a new contract with the phone.
Also, why in the hell would you want and iPhone 4S when the Epic 4G Touch with ICS will be available by then? Not to mention HTC’s next gen phones with ICS.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
because some people like iphones
more than android?
the only android device i’d purchase, personally, is a nexus device since it’s stock android and gets updated rapidly.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
With approximately 1 hour's worth of effort I managed to allow for my phone to be updated even more rapidly than a Nexus...
Not afraid to nitpick
not with official google releases, which is the whole point i was making.
using some custom rom is still slower than a google release. CM9 is being released after ICS because it has to be built on top of ICS. it’s not like you can actually get stuff from the official pipeline any sooner than a nexus device.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
The point is the old ones
CM9 will be out right before or at the same time that the Nexus S gets the ICS OTA update (holy shit acronyms!). And hell, half the new features of ICS are straight out of CM7.
Not afraid to nitpick
Before the Nexus One
I had a g1, mytouch 3g, motorola cliq. Once the Nexus One came out, I followed it with a nexus s, and now a galaxy nexus and I couldn’t be happier
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
imported it
Because Google is in bed with Verizon for the US launch and I’m with T-Mobile anyway
Speaking of Verizon, anyone that thinks they’re testing the device still and that’s why it isn’t released is crazy. Verizon is pushing it’s Razr and upcoming Droid 4. The devices are already at stores like Best Buy and Radioshack and some have managed to get one early.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
they really are
It’s such a great device too.
What I’m excited for is a project from the Google X labs to improve the voice actions introduced with 2.2
It’s codenamed Majel. You can read about the recent rumors here
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, this looks pretty awesome
and when you consider that they should be way ahead of Apple simply due to their vast amount of user information collected from their data collection and ad services, they should have a better version of Siri on the way.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I think having an open device with upgradable memory
and the ability to get root access trumps anything the iPhone can possibly offer me.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
i couldn't care less if a device has upgradeable memory.
i prefer batteries to be user-replaceable.
you can get root access, i believe, if you jailbreak.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
just because this was unclear,
i realise the iphone does not have a user-replaceable battery. i’m just saying that is a bigger con for me than is the lack of an sd card slot.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Upgradeable memory, swappable battery,
the list is pretty big.
I’m think that iPhones suit people who want a device that works and is intuitive but are willing to give up a measure of control over their ability to change settings and upgrade it.
That just doesn’t describe me.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
meh.
if you’re persistent enough i don’t believe using an iphone cedes any control.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
But if I'm a persistent person
why in the hell would I get an iPhone?
The only reason I can see having an iPhone is to make my life easier. If it’s not doing that, I’ll just get a cheaper phone.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
top of the line android devices aren't cheaper than the iphone.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Top of the line Android devices are more powerful than the iPhone
and offer more features than the iPhone, like HDMI Out, tethering, better camera, etc.
The Epic 4G Touch has a better display and better components than the iPhone. The iPhone is more popular because of nerdgasms over Apple shit as well as them making a product that is easy for everyone to use and having a head start with the App Store by about 5 years (when you consider when the iTouch was developed).
Apple can only try and stay ahead of the curve by out-innovating the rest of the market, because the rest of the phone market is larger and more competitive and doesn’t charge a premium for it’s products.
Apple was smart to push it’s phone to more major carriers. But when I play with the iPhone and play with similar apps on my EVO, I don’t see a big difference between the two other than ease of use if my entire life revolves around Apple products.
FWIW — I don’t see this much with the iPad either. I think the Android tablet market has suffered from a paradox of choice and OS growing pains rather than the iPad just being an awesome device. Because I think the Transformer Prime is heads and shoulders better built with better options than the iPad 2. It’s like an iPad 2 and a basic MacBook Air rolled into one.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Manufactures should take a long hard look at the transformer prime
it’s priced perfectly and it’s a beast in terms of specs. Motorola just unveiled their xoom 2 which is priced out of this world and is last years technology.
ICS will be a major breakthrough in Android (I can already see it on my galaxy nexus) because of what it represents.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going to wait until the ICS upgrade is on the Prime in January, and then I'll probably end up buying one.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
the camera on the iphone 4 is better than
any camera i’ve seen on a top of the line android device.
other than that, i mostly agree with this.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Have you seen the pictures from the Evo 3D and the Epic 4G Touch?
Way better than anything from the iPhone camera.
Now, the iPhones camera SOFTWARE beats Android, but the new camera program on the ICS build is supposedly a huge upgrade on that front.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
number of times a battery or SD card other than the stock ones have been in my EVO:
0
i mean, there are plenty of things to hate about iphones, and your complaint is so typically apple, but it’s not a selling point for me
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
I have 20 GB of data on my 32 GB Class 10 card.
I just carry a lot more stuff on my phone than you do. It’s a personal preference to do so. My point is that I don’t have this option with the iPhone.
That said, I wish my mother in law would just go buy a damn iPhone already instead of dinking around with various Android devices and calling me all the time when she can’t figure out how things work. She already has an iMac and and iPad, so why not get an iPhone too?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
The problem with the iphone isn't the fact that you can't get root access, because you can
it’s the fact that Apple tries to break it with every single update, and it’s gotten increasingly hard ever since the introduction of baseband updates in the 3g to keep up with what to do, what to backup to make sure you can always be rooted, etc.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Right
They’ve made jailbreaking such a pain in the ass that it’s really not worth doing if you want to continue to upgrade the phone to the new OS.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I wish Google would give an option to just root any Android phone
if the user wanted to. I had to root my phone just to get rid of all the stupid crapware that hogs all kinds of space on the phone memory, as the pre-installed shit can’t be moved to the SD card.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
well with the nexus they do
“fastboot oem unlock” unlocks the bootloader which allows you to do anything.
The crapware is ridiculous, but lukcily ICS has the “disable” feature that works on any app, it hides the app from your phone (though it still takes up space) however there’s nothing to stop the carrier from disabling that ability in ICS, just like some disable the built-in tethering that was included in 2.2
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
....which is exactly what they'll do.
What’s sad is that I don’t have a choice in the matter. If I want Sprint service without all the Sprint crapware, I literally do not have an option. This pisses me off to no end.
I would pay extra to have a phone with no crapware on it, which begs the question: How much do carriers make off of these deals that inevitably piss off their customers? Wouldn’t it make more sense to have a slightly more expensive option with no crapware and let people choose? You can then lower the price of the no crapware version until you’re at the margin for making money again. You know, like what Amazon has done with the new lower priced Kindles or what nearly every paid app does with their free version.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I prefer crapware coming on phones
Cause it makes the phone cheaper for me than I just remove them.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 13, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
I don't like to mess around with rooting and then having to deal with upgrading the phone, re-rooting, etc.
It’s a pain in the ass. I just don’t understand why Google doesn’t just allow you to download it’s newest OS and let you upload it onto whatever phone you want, no questions asked. Hell, I’d pay for that privilege, just like I have with versions of Windows over the years.
Seriously, manufacturers could put a huge dent in Apple’s market share by just not putting that shit on my fucking device to start with. It’s not worth the money to piss off the customer that is buying your device.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
well with rooting and custom roms
you can have a program like rom manager that checks for newer versions of the rom. Roms are always based on the latest version of Android, so there’s no need to worry about official updates. The only updates you have to worry about are those that come from the rom developer.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
i don't think that's Google's fault
it’s probably in the carrier agreement that they have to make it as difficult as possible.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
It's not Google's fault that their software is loaded up with crapware,
but what prevents them from putting a clean version of every Android build up on their website for sale or for free? Microsoft licenses Windows 7 to manufacturers to put on their off-the-shelf computers, but it still sells Windows 7 as a standalone software package too.
I just don’t see what’s stopping Google from doing this. What, are all the phone manufacturers just going to stop using Android? I think not.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
i'm saying, i would guess that there is something in the carrier agreements that they have signed that prevents them from doing exactly this
mobile phone carriers are notoriously bitchy about everything, as i’m sure you know. maybe this is just a projection on my part though.
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
Sprint is actually the best when it comes to crapware
at least on the newer phones, in that you can remove almost all of it. You always have an option with rooting your device, though some can be more difficult than others. I’d tell you to buy a Nexus S 4g, but I have a feeling with Google and Sprint’s close relationship, that the Galaxy nexus will be out in the first quarter of 2012
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
It will
and my wife will just have to keep putting up with this problem until then.
I’ve rooted my phone, but I don’t think I’ll get the option on the new handset I get if it has ICS.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
you can root your phone no matter what
OS version makes no difference. it’s when the bootloader is locked that you have a hard time with custom roms, but people always find a way to root.
with ICS the only reason im rooted is because of some of the cool apps out there that require massive permissions.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, but rooting Froyo really isn't "rooted"
It’s tricking the phone into giving you admin control, which is not the same thing.
ICS supposedly has much the same thing.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
that's what rooting is
giving you admin control over your phone. Rooting allows you to install applications like Root Explorer, where you can go into the /sys file and remove the bloatware that comes pre-installed on your phone, or change the bootanimation on your phone, or whatever you want.
It makes no difference what version of Android you’re running, once you have superuser control, you can do anything.
Now if you’re talking about installing full custom roms, that requires the bootloader to be unlocked, which is either very simple (nexus the command is literally fastboot oem unlock) or impossible (moto comes to mind) without the master code.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
unless you're talking about the one-click-root method
which I highly discourage, not because it’s not safe, but because I think everyone should learn how to root their device the proper way.
The one-click-root method was easier in versions like froyo and early version of gingerbread because of the exploits it targeted to install superuser, but Google has since patched those up.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
I want the bootloader unlocked.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
with the original iphone it was easy
I had one. But with the 3g, they released updates that could brick your device if you didn’t know what you were doing. This was still worked around with the “restore a custom ipsw” file, but now Apple has required you to be online, so that it can check the signature of the ipsw file to make sure it’s from Apple and not a custom one. Also you have to make sure you save your shsh blobs as well.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
this is a misnomer.
you cannot brick your iphone. if jailbreaking doesn’t work, you plug it into you computer and restore it.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I've seen devices that aren't even recoverable by entering DFU mode
It’s not an unheard of thing. But then again, if you know what you’re doing you’re fine
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
i mean, all you have to do is go to a website and push a button
so i’m not sure how you actually brick the thing unless you’re messing with hardware which you don’t have to do.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
some people never follow directions
One of the main reasons that manufactures started locking bootloaders on Android phones, is because people would soft-brick their devices, and instead of looking up how to fix it, would take it back and say it just stopped working. The only way to hard-brick your Android device is to erase the entire /boot. Once that happens, the only way you’re getting that puppy back online is to find someone who does JTAG repairs and get them to fix it.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
both of those seem like really easy things to profit from
if you’re a cell phone manufacturer.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
That's not true
I’ve seen bricked iPhones after the user tried to root. Would not recover in the DFU mode either.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
they did something wrong.
jailbreaking the iphone is ludicrously easy.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Sure,
until you try and upgrade it. That’s what happened to both of these people. They jailbroke the phone and then went to upgrade. Stupid, I know, but that’s what I mean by not having full control.
FWIW — Apple doesn’t WANT you to jailbreak their phones, because they WANT to control the experience, top to bottom. That’s their stated goal: We know better than you, so let us handle the details, ok?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
confirmed that this is the case
i can upgrade on 4/1 with a $150 discount of phone full price or sign a 2-year contract and get the $200 price
well duh.
the point is to lock you in.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I thought that you just had the terms confused
And, admittedly, their website is really fucking confusing when it comes to stuff like this.
My best friend has worked for Sprint forever and is currently working to update and improve their web portal. Something that really needs to happen.
That said, I think Verizon’s website, which I’ve had to use for work on occasion, is a total epic pain in ass.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
and if i got another android phone, it would probably be a galaxy nexus
though i haven’t researched any phones recently. just annoyed with cm7 and curious
speaking of,
i cannot believe how farcically verizon is botching the launch of this phone. it’s an amazing device and we still don’t have a confirmed launch date here in the states.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I thought you were more of an Android guy, that's why I was curious as to why you mentioned the iPhone.
The only reason I would want an iPhone is to have more room for applications on the internal memory. I have no idea why I can’t get a 32 GB Android phone that has a 32 GB flash ROM for storage.
I keep having to uninstall stuff that I actually would use just to keep my phone from slowing to a crawl. I think I will probably keep my EVO until somebody does something about this. I’m just hoping it gets the ICS upgrade in February….but am holding my breath.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Android is changing the way it stores files
it used to be you had a set amount for app installs and the rest for movies/music/etc. With the introduction of the Xoom, you had 32 GB which was used by apps/music/etc, but you also had the ability to have a 32gb sd card. The galaxy nexus GSM version has 16gb of onboard memory, while the verizon version will have 32.
With Google’s increasing push towards the cloud, I don’t store anything personal on my device, save for the pictures I take with my camera (which are instantly uploaded to Google+ so I can delete them). I use Google Music for my 7,000 songs. Then again, this is just me. One of the draws of an SD card with Android was the ability to buy a new phone and still have your movies, etc on there. With the introduction of Android 2.2 and the backup option, there’s really not a need for me personally to have a phone with an SD card.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
My Evo has about 450 MB to use for apps running Android 2.3.3
I put a 32 GB microSD card in the external mount, on which I keep files, email, podcasts, some music, and a lot of offline content for reading when I’m in bad service areas. My issue isn’t with the 32 GB, it’s with the 450 MB — I have 6 apps that use nearly 25% of that memory alone (Facebook, Google Plus, Twicca, Maps, Spotify, Hulu Plus). Not to mention Adobe Flash Player (13 MB), and Qik Video (12 MB) which any person without root access has to put up with.
Why in the hell, in this day and age, should I have to worry about megabytes? I can get an 8 GB Class 10 flash card for EIGHT BUCKS!!! I’m guessing that if you bought 8 GB cards in a mass quantity for your internal memory of your cell phone you could get them quite a bit cheaper than that, and not only would you not piss off people like me, but you’d also probably sell more phones, since I’m not the only one that has this problem.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
right
Google has moved to a more iPhone like way of storage where the memory is used for everything with no partitions for apps and personal. In fact, since Android 3.0, device manufacturers have had the option to create one volume for storing both apps and media instead of creating two, separate partitions
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Just looked at the Epic 4G touch.
16 GB ROM — that’s the first one I’ve seen that’s that big for the ROM memory.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Still running Froyo though...
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
your complaint is the direct result of you having removable memory
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
How so?
Why can’t I have a 32 GB ROM on my phone and also a 32 GB removable SD Card as well? In fact, just give me the 32 GB ROM on the phone and leave me a slot to add a removeable card if I choose to do so.
Also, what does having removable memory have to do with partitioning the internal ROM card to limit the amount of space I can use for certain functions on my phone?
Honestly, your comment seems really ill-informed as to what I’m talking about here. The reason my Evo only had a 1 GB ROM is mostly because the manufacturers were being cheap (with a world class device, which makes no sense) — it has nothing to do with having an external card.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
usually with our 24 month contracts you get a $75 upgrade discount 12 months in and $150 18 months in.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
but that's stupid
why wouldn’t i just go to verizon and get an iphone for $200. they’re disincetivizing their customers to stay with them
Because you like their service?
You like unlimited data?
And you can stick with them for the new contract price of the phone just 6 months later when your contract is up?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
There's absolutely no way I would ever buy another phone until my contract was up,
and even then I might wait until June or September/October before upgrading to make sure I get the newest phones and contracts available. Those are the peak times of the year for phones and also for new contract pricing.
Sprint is pretty stable on contract pricing though, and their unlimited plan is the best out there if you use data, imo.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
why people don't understand cell phone contracts/service i'll never understand.
it’s not difficult. at all.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
PJ just had the language confused
If you look at it how he was researching it, it can get confusing.
I don’t have to worry about this due to my sweetheart deal that I have for the foreseeable future…
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
the website just sucks.
you have to talk to a real person to understand.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
I am with Virgin Mobile after having Sprint for a long time
I am loving the no-contract. In long run easier to just buy a phone.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 13, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Cheaper too, if you know exactly what you want.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I pay $25 a month for 300 mins, unlimited data, and unlimited text
I don’t get close to the 300 mins since I use groove ip with wifi for free calls. Data is ok but I use wifi mostly. I got a Motorola Triumph while not the best phone in the world is pretty solid when rooted. I am using Cyanogenmod on it
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 13, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
I pay $35 a month for unlimited everything
Sprint Friends and Family Plan. I also get a new phone for the contract price every 12 months.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Umm
I think you mean you pay 35 respect
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 13, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
How many more years does Berkman have to play to be a serious HoF candidate?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I think he's probably a serious HoF candidate now
being a major part of a championship team probably gave him a major boost with voters, not to mention having a career year after the injury year, not to mention the additional counting stats he racked up….we were thinking he was already a borderline candidate this time last year.
I’d say if he isn’t already, he probably only needs one more strong year.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
If he quit right now I'd say he might not make it
Another year or two and I’d say he’s probably in. He’s going to get past 2000 hits and 400 HR in two years if he stays healthy (I think, anyway). His slash stats are going to be pretty close to .300/.400/.500. He’s never struck out more than average, really, and he takes tons of walks.
so are we Angeling Houstons Pujols?
by jealousblues on Dec 13, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think so, but some are more pessimistic
I dunno, I guess it’s pretty likely that lots of voters will just see him as a slugger who didn’t slug enough (i.e., didn’t hit 500 homers) to get in as a first baseman.
no, because he didn't leave the Astros to come to the Cardinals
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Sadly I think Berkman
will join the group of guys like Edmonds, McGriff, Dale Murphy, ect. that had great careers but will more than likely come up short on the key stats that usually gets guys in with the voters. He would need to be much closer to 3,000 hits to be seriously considered I’m afraid. He could be a strong contender in the veterans selection many years down the line though…like Santo.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
Can't a ballplayer be very good and famous? Like Jim Rice or Lou Brock?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah he and edmonds are great comps
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
i don't think he can realistically expect to be a hall-of-famer.
but maybe four more years of adequate production?
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
He is at 51 career WAR
I think about 65 is the min you can get into the hall with.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 13, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
oh wait, he's a switch-hitter.
i’m an idiot. i think that positively affects his chances significantly.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
oh gee, where did you come up with that argument?
so smart il rosso!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
oh, i see. you made the comment a little before me below.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
great minds think alike.
i seriously got it from his fangraphs page.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I think they have a lower replacement level
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
two more.
he has to be one of the best switch hitters of all time, right? i’d look it up, but i don’t want to.
#lazyIHB
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
i think it helps him a lot because he's distinguishable on that point
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
check out this article
from FESPN, from May of 11, when Berkman was on that early-season tear.
You can skip the article and just look at the list. Both his on-base and slugging are higher than everybody on the list other than Mantle (including Chipper, Eddie Murray, and Pete Rose). Dude has a real good chance because even the idiot voters will still compare him to other switch hitters.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
@JonHeymanCBS:
there r 254M reasons pujols made quick call to go w/ #LAAngels. another reason he decided fast, i hear: LAA set deadline
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
stay classy, angels.
here’s a life-altering decision. make it arbitrarily quickly.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 13, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Heh
kinda crazy how fast he decided. Weird situation all around.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
Dude got offered 254 million
Doesn’t take that long to think “hey, that’s a shitton more money than 210 million – 30 mil deferred.” I’m sure he’d been running the scenarios through his head every night for months.
Not afraid to nitpick
Eh
it’s still a giant decision to sign your name on that dotted line that controls basically everything about your life for the next decade.
Even with the scenarios, it’s a hard decision to pull. Even his agent was surprised Pujols chose so quickly.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
and Lozano knows about doing things quickly
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
oh ho
Zing! That was a zing right? right?
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
what happens if after 5 years
Albert can’t play anymore, whether he suffers a career ending injury or something else. Does the contract (playing and personal services) become null and void?
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
playing contract doesn't
the angels owe him 254 Million once he passes the physical. It doesn’t matter if he plays ever gets a PA with them.
No clue on the personal services.
Grit != flat out sucking.
but dee dee said (ugh)... they were not prepared to leave and had pretty much excluded that possibility
god sure answered their prayers and tears fast
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
they're whole excuse is really insulting
people wouldn’t be half as pissed if they just came out & said they were butt hurt Mo & DeWitt didn’t hug him & give him his $275 million & a binky before bed time like Artie promises to do every night when he tucks them in
Balls
what's a binkie? i want one!
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
See Vernon Wells . . .
Hall of Shame for worst contracts in history. . . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
you mean life-altering committment.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Goddamnit, this just seems unlucky at this point
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Have you guys seen the 20 minute interview with Pujols and his wife
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 5:25 PM EST reply actions
It's an interview with KSDK
more of the same stuff, I think they’re trying to do damage control
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'm at the point now where I just want them to get on with their new lives in Orange County.
The ability of average folks like us to empathize with a decision to accept a $254 million over a $210 million contract is nonexistent. Try as we might, we cannot. The more they repeat how hard it was for them to decide to take the larger contract to leave St. Louis the more I wonder if they understand how much it undercuts their statements that it wasn’t about the money. It was about other things like family and commitment, they shouldn’t feel the need to keep reiterating how difficult the decision was for them.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 13, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But they PRAYED and CRIED over it!
Let’s just hash and re-hash over it a few more times.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 13, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
This was my concern last week after the announcement: That they wouldn’t own the decision to leave for an extra $44M over 10 years.
He feels that his needs were met by a different organization and that it was a tough decision. I get that. But playing the respect card fucking pisses me off to no end. That’s an excuse and a cop-out. This was YOUR decision, so own up to it. Don’t pretend you were forced into making it.
FWIW — I don’t think they fully realized the amount of anger and backlash they would generate by the use of faith based decision making. I think that they belong to an insulated community of people that understand that type of thinking and were not able to comprehend how the public at large would take such sentiments. I think fans who are already angry about the decision become more enraged about this topic with the addition of “God” and “prayer” and “faith” surrounding your decision making process, just due to the fact that it’s easy to be cynical from a fan’s perspective. I don’t think they had any concept of the backlash that this decision would create, and have handled it poorly by trying to explain themselves instead of just letting their actions speak.
I don’t begrudge their decision, or how it was made. I do, however, have issues with blaming the organization for not “respecting” them with a $210M offer of guaranteed money after a paying him $100M over the last 7 seasons.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
by fourstick on Dec 13, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Exactly, and unlike athletes, fans
live in the real world where the economy has crashed and a lot of lifetime Cardinals fans have lost their jobs, and many of them may never work again. This kind of respect bullshit is always risible to ordinary people, but in these times its really insulting.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 13, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Was it Latrelle Spreewell who complained about a $10 million per year offer. . .
. . . I have a family to consider!
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Or Kenny Anderson
wondering how many of his cars he’d have to sell?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
entirely unrelated
None of the Cardinals in your profile poem are Cardinals anymore.
I think we’ve discovered something, here.
Still not a werewolf.
/Working on Lohse/Westbrook verse now.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Actually he's getting an extra $74M over 10 years
Maybe more if he meets the incentives clauses in his new contract.
by bailorg on Dec 13, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It was so easy to win the PR battle, or at least not kill yourself
I loved my time in St. Louis and their fans have been incredible to me. At this point in my career however, the Angels presented a situation (WINK WINK) that I felt was more attractive to me personally going forward, though I hold no ill will to the city of St. Louis or the Cardinals organization. I wish them the best. I understand that there will certainly be the sentiment that I am turning my back on the city and organization, but I hope with time fans will come to re-appreciate the historical period of success that we enjoyed over the last 11 years. We had a great run and great, 2-time WS winning teams. I myself will have to reflect on all of this when I have the proper historical context, but for now all I can do is look forward to starting a new run in Los Angeles.
Beat those talking points into his head, and then his wife doesn’t have to look stupid publicly.
Not afraid to nitpick
All something a properly paid and respected PR person would write for him.
Or, you know, a well adjusted person who understands public speaking and perceptions.
But I get the feeling that Albert Pujols is someone who likes to command respect, and when he doesn’t get it, he says exactly how he feels about it. And it seems his wife is the same way.
Then they cry foul when people react to them with disgust.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Agreed
He actually could have made a very nice argument for leaving
- Accomplished everything that I could in St. Louis and ready for a new challenge
- The AL might be a better fit in the long run (because of DH)
- Worked hard my whole life to earn this offer (the American dream)
I don’t think anyone would have begrudged his leaving if he had given such reasons instead of…
- I am somehow offended by being offered a ridiculous (but not the most ridiculous) amount of money.
- The Cardinals did not make me feel cuddly in my tummy.
- Jesus was all like ‘Nu-Uh. Oh my what? Don’t take that shit from them, Albert. Pack your bags.’
by YepYouGuessedIt...CardinalRed on Dec 13, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
this is so much what they should have said and then shut up
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 14, 2011 7:23 AM EST up reply actions
I think there are possible other reasons why Pujols went to St. Louis
And still it’s a tough decision to make. 44 million + the difference in deferments and expected endorsements is pretty damn huge.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a Christian...
FWIW — I don’t think they fully realized the amount of anger and backlash they would generate by the use of faith based decision making. I think that they belong to an insulated community of people that understand that type of thinking and were not able to comprehend how the public at large would take such sentiments. I think fans who are already angry about the decision become more enraged about this topic with the addition of "God" and "prayer" and "faith" surrounding your decision making process, just due to the fact that it’s easy to be cynical from a fan’s perspective
…and I can tell you I wasn’t really, truly upset at Pujols until DeeDee started hammering at the faith-based decision-making while also complaining about the “lack of respect” the Cardinals showed them. To me, it just felt like they were using their faith to justify their pride. Combined with that is the simple fact that Pujols wanted A-Rod money to go along with the A-Rod term, and he wound up with a contract that gave him nearly both while leaving the Cardinals’ 10 year offer behind…well, I would throw justifying greed in there as well.
I understand taking an offer you can’t refuse, but complaining that you were driven to that decision by the Cardinals’ insulting actions and that God told you it was the right choice to leave is simply passing the buck for a decision based on your own wants and desires.
Especially when (a) Pujols repeated talked how he wouldn’t give the Cardinals a hometown discount and that this was “business” back before the Cardinals offered their January offer and (b) that the January offer clearly showed the Cardinals were more than willing to resign Pujols for the rest of his career, just not at the monetary amount that he wanted but still more than fair. You set the ground rules, Albert. Don’t get complain when the Cardinals actually play by them.
by Forsch31 on Dec 13, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Yeah
I don’t think this a particularly controversial area to go here, though I think we have to be careful what we say for obvious reasons. I guarantee, though, this is an area where people all along the spectrum didn’t react well to that card being played. It’s one of the few things where common ground will be found, even if for varying reasons.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 13, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, and you know, if he just
says he likes SoCal and hates snow, I’d be perfectly fine with that.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 13, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I would totally prefer that
than the argument they’re currently making.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
this is a bunch of scripted bullshit.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome, thanks cardsfan
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 14, 2011 7:28 AM EST up reply actions
well at 350 it's 18-25 min/lb
I don’t know what an extra 100 would do to that time.
I would pre-heat the oven at 450, then put the bird in for 20 minutes and turn it down to 325-350.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
0 minutes
Because that’s way to goddamn hot….
I’d preheat to 400, put the bird in, then turn it down to 350. Usually about 20 minutes per pound, so a little over 2 hours and it should be done.
If you can do this the beer can way in your oven, I highly recommend it.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
+1 on the beer can
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
I'm trying a new recipe where you cover the bid completely in salt
recipe calls to cook @ 450 for an hour for a 3 lb bird. I didn’t realize until I put it in that it was closer to 7 lbs. Didn’t know how much longer to cook. It’s been an hour, so I lowered to 350 – I figure I’ll check it in half an hour.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 13, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
cover in salt?
Cover it in bacon and call it a day
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
Salt is cheaper than bacon
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
how much salt
And what kind? Like a salt shell?
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 13, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
I would assume it's a salt cocoon
locks in the flavor
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
recipe calls for 4 cups of kosher salt, but for a 3 lb. bird
I more or less eyeballed it. Covered the roasting pan with foil, and added a layer of salt. Rinsed the bird and patted down. Added enough salt to where it totally encapsulated it. I tried this a couple years ago and was real happy with it. However, I just got a much bigger bird this time.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 13, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, well that changes things
The salt will help the bird retain moisture, so you can cook it at a higher temperature. I would check it at 90 minutes with an instant read thermometer in the thigh. Need to get to at last 160 to be done, 180 to be really done.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Not 160. more like 150, in the fat part of the thigh. A 7 pound bird is gonna carry over a ton. And if you dont have a thermometer… well, thats kind of a problem.
I want Tung Po!
by ILoveTheSt.LouisCardinals on Dec 13, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
and the salt crust is going to carry some heat as well.
I want Tung Po!
by ILoveTheSt.LouisCardinals on Dec 13, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
I'd go to 160 to be sure...
but I see what you mean.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Chicken update...
came out AWESOME. Colonel Sanders would’ve been proud.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 13, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I brined a bird last year, was alot of work and effort, but it was the moistest bird that I ever had
the pleasure of doing..
While the brine mix was working to a boil it did fill the house with good aroma’s..
by Tuning in from Korea on Dec 13, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Just go buy a shit ton of McNuggets.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 13, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh, I can't eat those anymore
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
chicken dinner?
what did we win?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Bad link. sorry
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
by cardsfan59 on Dec 13, 2011 5:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Very good interview
“I actually assumed he was going to run the Cardinals up as high as they could go and then sign with them”
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
....
I don’t blame the Cardinals for not going there….From a player’s standpoint, you say it’s not always about the money, but It’s always about the money, not in the terms of I could buy an extra mercedes, it’s what it represents, to albert it represents a respect level. ‘Oh but the cards offered 210, how much more respect do you need?’ but if some team wants to give him an extra 30-40 million, well that’s it.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
....
People would have a lot more respect if you said ‘it is about the money, but not in terms of the money as in I can buy more things, but in terms of respect’ than if you get up on stage and say ‘oh it’s not about the money’
Lance mfing Berkman
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Somebody who worked for the TSA called him a traitor
and he said “what do you want me to do, woman?”
Lance’s situation is completely different from Albert’s. Lance wanted to be in Houston, they didn’t want him. He went to the NYY because it would help the team, and when he went to Houston saying ’I’d like to come back,’ they said, sorry we’re going in a different direction.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
I like him more and more every day.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
some pretty serious liberties with the quote, there.
I know we joke about blockquotes, but lets try to be a little closer to what the fella actually says, k?
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
by SleepyCA on Dec 14, 2011 3:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think this reasoning is weird because
Fans would respect him more if he declined to take the extra $40 million instead of running with it.
Of course if you want the money, then admitting to it is the better play.
You all have to listen to this interview
It’s very good. Lance is awesome
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Lance is awesome
have to say, it’s very therapeutic to hear his perspective on things. Not warm & fuzzy yet, but much more optimistic.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 13, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
lance berkman counsels players on what to say to the media
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
...
I was like “what do you want me to do woman?”
Because Matheny
by WyoCardsFan on Dec 13, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hahahaha
Did everybody catch the Al and Dan line about getting WW back? I pretty much just laughed my ass off.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
and he's trying to bring in Oswalt.
that’s fucking hilarious.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
This is good news
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Sources: Willingham near agreement with #Twins. #MLB
paves the way for cuddyer to rockies, beltran to us
fangraphs clearly cheats.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Pre-Steroid Barry ('86 - '98): 103.4 WAR.
Assuming a regressed aging curve through 2007, he probably still ends up in the top 10 without steroid use.
That’s what’s so sad….he was already a HOF player on the way to one of the greatest careers in the history of the game, and his 500 HR/500 SB feat will probably never be matched.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Oscar taveras will match it
And in the process, make us all say “Albert who”
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 13, 2011 6:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not sad neccesarily
What Bonds did was incredible in his peak, and if it took steroids to do that, so be it.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
The numbers aren't "real", but the dominance was
A lot of people took steroids, but only one guy hit .349/.559/.809 over 2400 PAs.
Not afraid to nitpick
.600+ OBP in 2004
every time I see that I am compelled to shout, in my best Frank Grimes voice, “It boggles the mind!”
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
in the modern era that is one record I would be willing to bet lasts 50 years
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
agree
It would take something like aluminum bats to make that happen.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Or some sort of pitch recognition training regimen with shaolin monks
starting at age 4
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
exactly
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 14, 2011 2:42 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, fucking sad. Necessarily sad. Why?
Because he now will forever have his numbers tainted by his steroid use.
Who knows, maybe he puts up those numbers without steroid use. But that’s the point: WE’LL NEVER KNOW IF HE COULD HAVE OR NOT.
I still think he belongs in the HOF. But his legacy is forever tarnished by his decision to take performance enhancing drugs. It’s the same with McGwire, Palmeiro, et al. The issue I have isn’t with the inflation of the numbers provided by steroid use. It’s with the cloud of uncertainty as to what the performance level would have been WITHOUT steroids.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
I agree
I have come around to the point where I think it’s pointless to keep those players out of the Hall. Everybody knows about steroids now. It’s still up for debate just what kind of effect they have, how prevalent they are, how much of the change in offense can be attributed to their use (I’m very skeptical that they were the major cause of the increase of offense in the 90s) but in the end it was still illicit drug use and should not have happened. It clearly does help players in at least some circumstances. Unless Bonds was even more amazingly talented than we already knew he was, it just defies belief that he could have had his insane peak in the 2000s as a late 30-something. It happened so much that it’s silly to me to just try to ban that many great players from the record books.
Baseball should be up front and candid about what happened and why it was wrong and regrettable. In other words, it should be mature about it. It is very sad, but it happened.
I don't think he could have put up those numbers without steroids
No way.
I don’t personally care about his legacy – at least as it relates to how the general public feels about him.
I think him being the best player of all time is a good enough legacy, and he wouldn’t have been able to do that without steroids.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 14, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
if i had my choice
i would take matt holliday or lance berkman over albert pujols any day of the week and twice on sundays. at least over the next 2 years. they are basically matching each other in production right now, and holliday and berkman are so much COOLER.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Or because you're racist
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
They are exactly the same except race?
Obama = Newt? From 97.1 on way home from work
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 14, 2011 7:44 AM EST up reply actions
Dana Gould said on twitter that in his heart of hearts he believes
the big money behind the Newt v. Obama runoff is coming from the novelty salt and pepper shaker industry
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
FIGURED ME OUT DIDN'T YOU
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Strongly disagree
Holliday and Berkman matched Albert’s worst year by far. Holliday probably would have been better given less time missed, but how much is a guess. Going forward I would rather have Albert on the field than either of them. Berkman is a lot older and Holliday is essentially the exact same age.
yeah but you are not accounting for CAR
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
yep
i was mostly being facetious in my OP anyway. they just both were all sorts of awesome today.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I'm just now starting to listen to the Berkman interview
They are pretty awesome to have on our team.
He is a professional athlete and he used the word "disingenuous"
That already makes it a good interview.
You'd never guess he's
an athlete if you met him on the street. And he doesn’t look very athletic doing anything on the field either, for that matter.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 13, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
except for when he's berking
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
i feel bad for Lego, he was brought in to protect Albert and now Albert has left him high & dry
Matt committed himself to helping Albert & Albert turned his back & screwed him over.
of course we the fans have been screwed over more, but still, i’m sure Lego’s like WTF dude? where’s your loyalty?
Balls
by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
not really, they did that to prove their commitment to winning
something Albert said they must do if they wanted to re-sigh him. this is something else we can be mad about
Balls
I just seem to be one of the few people who has grown more annoyed with the Cardinals' end of this in the past few days
Probably because I just don’t care what was said or has been said publicly about the reasons this happened.
maybe, it's clear both sides f'ed this up, but
the majority of the blame ultimately falls on Albert’s shoulders because he chose to leave
Balls
My main problem is that I consider the Cards' final offer to be a borderline lowball offer
They basically offered 10/180 with 30 distributed over an unspecified amount of time.
That is significantly below what I thought the Cards’ final would be and way below what I would have tried to offer if I was in charge.
can you think of any large FA contracts in the DeWitt era that haven't included at least some deferred money?
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
No, but ultimately I would rather overpay someone like Albert
rather than overpay people like Lohse, Westbrook, Schumaker, Theriot, etc.
10/anything was far more than I expected the Cardinals to offer.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
And to be fair to the Cards
I never expected that anybody would offer what the Angels ultimately signed him to. But once it was clear that Albert was receiving 10 year/200M+ offers, I would have expected the Cards to, at minimum, go to 10/200 without deferments.
Cards decided they could do either really long term or a big AAV, but not both.
Albert got both elsewhere. I’m glad the Cards didn’t go beyond what they felt they could afford (or simply wanted to pay).
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
i would never say $25+Mil per is a lowball offer
Albert can’t have it both ways which is exactly what he wanted. he wanted the Cards to not treat this as a business transaction & leave the emotions out of it like he kept saying he would do. well when they did he got all butthurt over it & left. negotiations is a process, he acted like the Cards should offer him the moon & damn everything else.
could they have been more tactful? sure. but he was & still is unrealistic in his expectations. and the more he talks the more we find out he wasn’t the guy he’s always said he was. and i think that has so many upset more so than anything else
Balls
I'm not saying we should have given Pujols the A-rod-esque mega-deal he got from the Angels
but I just have a hard time believing that we couldn’t go to at least 10/200 before we had to start deferring money.
And if we had to tighten payroll further, losing the ability to overpay for 3-5 level starting pitchers isn’t exactly something I’m going to regret.
i think they could have gone 10/200 w/out the deferred money
but clearly they didn’t & that’s what matters. this whole situation sucks
Balls
and we should be very glad.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
they offered him 9/198 a year ago
I mean, I just can’t think of 5/130 as a lowball. Insufficient, maybe; a starting place for negotiations, fine, but a non-starter altogether? Come on.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
It's late, but my take
is that the FO’s mistake, if any, was in putting up that starting-point offer.
From what DeDe is saying, they would have been happier had they called Albert up right off the bat, and said:
Look, Albert, we hope you realize how much everyone here in St. Louis loves you and wants you here forever. You belong in the red-jacket line next to Stan, Ozzie and Gibby, and we hope to see you there in ten years’ time. Now to fill those ten years we’ve been wracking our minds how to pay you what you deserve wihtout ruining our ability to give your teammates the contracts they deserve when the time comes. You know we’re already deferring money to Matt, and Yadi’s contract comes up next year. So here’s the package we’ve drawn up, for a total of $200M. The highest we honestly feel we coud safely go is $210M. We’d love any ideas you might have about how else to shape the deal.
As to the offers themselves, they made perfect sense business-wise, and it’s good they didn’t go higher than they did. The difference in my mind, and based again on the quotes of the Pujolses is in how they presented the offers.
Cards fan in Middle East
do we know how much of that 198 was deferred?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
its like every new large contract is bigger than the last
as if some sort of salary inflation was going on over time.
wonder of wonders ;-)
by jealousblues on Dec 14, 2011 2:03 AM EST up reply actions
Hey, Fritz
thanks for the heads-up about Salume Beddu a couple of weeks ago. In other news, the kid can pay his own way through college.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 6:21 PM EST reply actions
as it should be.
damn free-loaders, thinking simple biological happenstance means i’m responsible to pay for their education.
/s
what is salume beddu?
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
A place for
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
this was very confusing to me until i realised Fritz recommended it to you,
not Fink.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I still have never actually been to the store
But I’ve had some of their stuff. It’s pretty awesome, probably as good as Volpi. They make fewer things but have some more exotic “artisan” type stuff that Volpi doesn’t have. Volpi has really increased the variety of their salami though.
Seriously....
… you poor, poor, provincial folks who have never tried imported Italian Speck. You have no idea what you’re missing…
:=8)
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
Speck is pretty kick ass
Cured, spiced, and smoked! It’s like prosciutto only with a higher difficulty level.
i would agree.
but i don’t think manny will get in.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
i don't think andruw jones will, or beltran, or manny.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
not a chance after the ped issue
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
also...
jim edmonds would be right at the cutoff.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
hall of famer. period.
to me it’s just that easy.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think he holds the record for most half-shirts
that alone should get him in
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As if BBWAA writers know what WAR is.
Pshhhhh. Stop fooling yourself. Raines has 64 WAR and 800+ career steals. He won’t get in either. Sad.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Someone posted a list of other 8-time GG winners and which ones were in vs out. Edmonds was much better than the out guys and some of the in guys, iirc.
Ditto with guys that had just 7 GGs. Worth noting, I think.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
haha, i don't think WAR is the be all end all,
nor should it be. i was just impressed by that.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Raines probably gets in eventually on veterans committee
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
They might in 5-20 years though
Hell, WAR was still only known as now-crappy VORP in 2006.
Not afraid to nitpick
Sure,
but it’s obvious that these players were better players than some of the players already in the HOF, but are still not IN the HOF. Tim Raines > Andre Dawson & Jim Rice by just about every offensive measure other than HR’s and RBI’s.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Santo had 66.4 lifetime bWAR
and had to wait until 37 years after retirement to get in. FWIW your proposed cutoff of Helton is at 59.9. Would love to spend more time with this and likely will during Jan/Feb but my instinct is to say the bar is 66 – 68.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 13, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
if this truly excites you
google “hall of merit”.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
i think ichiro gets in
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
he's compiled a lot of WAR in fewer years
plus the whole breaking records thing.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
yeah, i didn't mean to make it a hard cut-off.
i only said helton because it seems to me he will get in. there are people above him who won’t. ichiro should, i think. we’ll see how voters handle that one.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
oh yeah, i agree with you.
i was just stating my opinion about ichiro, despite his somewhat lower WAR total
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I'm glad I got to see Ichiro play in person when the Mariners came to Busch last year
even if the Cards lost the game
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
nope, the game i saw he went 2-4 with a leadoff double and a stolen base
here is the cards lineup for that game via my scorecard
Floppy 4
Holliday 7
Pujols 3
Luddy 9
Freese 5
Rasmus 7
Molina 2
Garcia 9
Boog 6
with PH appearances by Stav and Winn and Miller, Pork Chop and Sauce in relief
Mariners win 2-1 with RBI from Langerhans and Figgins, and Sacflywick drove in Pujols after a 4th inning double and wild pitch
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
I was at that one.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
That was kind of awesome
There are few players who would make me happy to see do that against my team. Ichiro is one of them.
I'd be shocked if Johnny Damon doesn't get in
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Really? Damon seems very unlikely to make it to me.
Has to make it to 3000 hits and even then it’s questionable.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
he won rings with the Red Sox AND the Yankees
I’m not guaranteeing it, I’ll just be surprised if he doesn’t go.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
so if he does get in
what cap does he wear in the hall? Red Sox?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
this might sound silly
but was he ever the best player on any team?
(even teams he didnt play for?)
by jealousblues on Dec 14, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
relevant
jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick
The Baseball Hall of Fame called Scott Boras’ office today. They want to add Prince Fielder’s binder to their library. Not kidding
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
And Scott Boras cackled with joy
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 13, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
their library has a fiction section?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 13, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
New exhibit
The Game’s Golden PowerPoint Age
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Dec 13, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I dont understand
does he have a famous binder or something?
What could be in it?
pictures of sandwiches
by jealousblues on Dec 14, 2011 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
Actual sandwiches.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
He had to get a custom three hole punch.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
hot damn winter is depressing, no?
dark when you wake up, dark when you go home.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 13, 2011 6:43 PM EST reply actions
yes, children can't comprehend light differences
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
wat
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
oh well yeah, i'm sure you were a prodigy
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
well, i was.
but still what are you talking about
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Be thankful you don't live in Alaska.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 13, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
We all are.
Whale hunting would be our national past time. No Thank You
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 13, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
nope. merely a protectorate.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
can't argue with 2 forsch-related nicknames on this
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
arguing with the willfully foolish will get you nowhere
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Did mrs. Pujols make more comments today
Can someone give me
A
Synopsis?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 13, 2011 6:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
she said
VolsnCards5 should get a new phone
other people can sum up the actual interview since i didn’t listen to it.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Dec 13, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Heh
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 13, 2011 7:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
OT but does anyone watch Homeland?
Its frekin unbelievable. Probably my favorite show now.
by mick311 on Dec 13, 2011 7:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I watched the first episode and wasn't that into it
does it get a lot better?
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
it gets a lot better.
took me 3-4 episodes to get into it, but it is really a great show. i hope they bring it back.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Its coming back, just got picked up for
Season 2. Apparently its the highest rated new series ever on Showtime.
by mick311 on Dec 13, 2011 7:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
that's awesome.
claire danes, by the way, has not aged at all since MSCL
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
you know what i love about claire danes? i keep getting older, she stays the same age.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
I think so for sure.
We watch Dexter, which I feel like really sucks this year and thats on after so I just decided to start watching it but it has gotten progressively better each week. the only night I watch tv is Sunday and out of that, Dexter and B.Empire its def my favorite.
by mick311 on Dec 13, 2011 7:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
dexter season 4 is the best season
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I like every season
not one of the very best tv shows, but close
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Boardwalk Empire is so good
that last episode was crazy, hard to absorb all of it at once
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't watch the finale yet, im gonna watch
It tonight, but shit was crazy the week before….def a LOT of wierd stuff going on.
by mick311 on Dec 13, 2011 7:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
YES
holy shit. Hadn’t heard of it til a couple weeks ago, just caught up last night.
HOLY SHIT.
one of my favorite shows of the year for sure.
It’s like a less cheesy 24 mixed with a less boring Rubicon and great acting and, so yeah I like it a lot.
Can someone confirm this for me, or find an easy way for me to confirm it? I'm pretty sure that when he retired Babe Ruth had the record for most strikeouts.
Does anyone know for sure? It makes me wonder if part of his success was his willingness to strikeout in exchange for swinging the bat harder to make more solid contact. Thoughts?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
Confirmed. Ruth was the All-Time leader in Ks from 1928 to 1964 when he was passed by Mantle.
Current Leader is Reggie Jackson, Single-season is Mark Reynolds, Active leader is Jim Thome, and 2011 Leader was Drew Stubbs.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Question I've been pondering
With AP gone to LA who will now run through Oquendo’s stop signs?
Not an easy question. You have to be aggressive, unapologetic, able to get your manager to back up you no matter how screwed up a call it is, and be successful enough that your teammates don’t jump all over your ass, and enough street cred not to get Oquendo all over you.
Rookies are out so Jay, Freeze, Craig, Descalso are out.
You have to be able to get to 3b to begin with, so Skippy is out
Holliday and Berkman are possible candidates but I don’t think they are very good baserunners.
Most of the pitchers can’t hit
So I’m left with Furcal and Wainwright.
I think it’s Wagonmaker
Just win
by The Duke on Dec 13, 2011 8:54 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
A rec for you, sir.
And in general I also expect Waino to come front and center this year as “a face” if not “THE face” of the team.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 13, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
Fredbird. . . He goes where he wishes as he wishes. . . Part of his contract. . .
Signed after his beak season. . . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
freese is no rookie
he might not run through the stop sign but he’ll for sure slide into 3rd like a boss
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Freese lets the success go to his head
starts calling his own hit and runs as well as instructing the pitcher when to issue walks
by jealousblues on Dec 14, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
take the damn offer cuddyer
JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
cuddyer has been mulling #rockies offer for days. so he may have another decent option. if so, rox will turn to beltran
I think the Twins want him back but
Their offer is less than the Rockies. The Willingham signing seemed done but now not so much. I hope Cuddyer is not deciding to go back to MIN.
by mick311 on Dec 13, 2011 9:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Great, so now Willingham may not be signing
With Minnesota per MLBTR. Talks with Cuddyer back on….
by mick311 on Dec 13, 2011 9:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If the Cardinals want Beltran...
they need to just go get him. Give him two years and an option that vests with playing time. Do $13M per season with a $2M buyout. That’s 2/28 with the possibility of 3/39 if he plays, say, 130 games in 2013. He’s going to do better than this? On a championship contender that wants him for CF? If it turns into a bad contract, so be it.
Sign Roy O
labor agreement (nexdef'd?)
The Associated Press obtained the document that includes several changes, many starting next year. Among them:
• Allowing teams from the same division to meet in the playoffs before the league championship series.
• A ban on players getting tattoos with corporate logos.
• The possibility of players wearing microphones during games.
Any big leaguer who wants to change uniform numbers without switching teams better give eight months’ notice unless he’s willing to buy warehouses full of his overstocked jerseys.
MLB wants to expand replay to include fair-or-foul calls, “whether a fly ball or line drive was trapped” and fan interference all around the ballpark. Umpires still must give their approval and it’s uncertain whether the extra replay will be in place by Opening Day.
The All-Star break will be expanded to four days
Now, all players on 40-man rosters are assured of single rooms during spring training.
The deal also bans players and team officials from asking official scorers to reconsider decisions … and increases punishments for slow-moving hitters and pitchers
There are several provisions regarding players’ conduct:
• A ban on players betting with illegal bookies on any sport.
• New language allowing the commissioner to discipline players for violating federal, state or local law or for conduct “materially detrimental or materially prejudicial to the best interests of baseball.”
• Possible suspensions for intentionally throwing a ball or equipment at non-uniformed personnel with the intention of causing bodily harm; for assaulting fans, media or umpires; or for making public statements that question the integrity of the game, the umpires, the commissioner or the commissioner’s staff.
Players also can be disciplined for violating MLB’s social media policy, which still is being developed.
The agreement calls for nicknames written on equipment to “not reasonably likely to offend fans, business partners, players and others associated with the game.”
There is a prohibition on “taxi squads” — calling up players from the minors and not activating them. Also, teams may only invite players to offseason minicamps if they are not yet eligible for salary arbitration.
Still nothing on the MLBPA site. Bah.
Longer ASG break is interesting. Hadn’t heard that before.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
god i keep forgetting about the added wildcard
i hate that one game playoff so much. and 10/30 teams make the playoffs now… sigh.
a question
-is there that much of a rampant problem of players with corporate logo tattoos?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
i wonder what kind of people would get corporate logo tattoos
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
actually, i bet there are some apple tattos out there for sure
what else, maybe some WoW related tattoos
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Ask and ye shall receive.
There were lots of others too that I thought were less blog friendly.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
oh, yeah
they’re all pretty interesting people i bet
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
People who want advertising revenue.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
...
Smith said she doesn’t think she’ll ever regret having the permanent logo on her forehead, and her son promised to get good grades.
Still not a werewolf.
...
“My brain is already numb,” she said, laughing.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
I assume this was pre-tattoo.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
that kid will drop out of high school and have a nice career in fast food management
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
I got my fucking forehead tattooed and this is how you pay me back!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
$10,000????
Really? That’s all it takes?
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Holy shit.
I bet the Brewers wish they had Brett Lawrie back. I knew he was good last year, but my god…
He put up 2.7fWAR in just 43 GAMES!
by mick311 on Dec 13, 2011 9:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The spin is that without Marcum they wouldn't have convinced Greinke to come over...
possibly true.
Sign Roy O
No I think they are happy. They won the divison and then went on to the Worl....
HA HA , no they didn’t!!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Just win
by The Duke on Dec 13, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep.
If he hadn’t gotten hurt before he came up, who know what he could have put up.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
I think Brett Lawrie is going to an MVP quality player. Marcum's an injury risk and Lawrie will probably throw up a 6-7 WAR year next year.
The Brew Crew are screw’d.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
And the fact that they spent...
$30 million on K-Rod, A-Ram, and Gonzalez makes you wonder if they really needed to trade their best prospect for a pitcher. Maybe they could’ve hit FA hard last year and kept Lawrie.
Sign Roy O
I like Lawrie, but wasn't his BABIP last year like over 9000?
I think 6-7 WAR may be optimistic. 4-5 I think.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
.318 isn't even Schumakerian
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Eh, it's still pretty high for his LD%, but you're right it's not that crazy.
6-7 WAR still seems optimistic to me though.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 4:49 AM EST up reply actions
yeah obviously, he's not Pujols
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 14, 2011 6:27 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno about 6-7 WAR
I would predict that he’s a 5 WAR player next year. I don’t think he can keep his ISO in the .300+ range for a full season. I think he’s probably a .230 – .240 ISO hitter. A bit better than he was in the minors but not the .280+ he showed last season. Couple that with his 9.5% walk rate, and he’s probably a .370-.380 wOBA player. Very good, but not quite elite.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
Flags fly forever.
2011 NL Central Champs, lol
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
Your daily December Christmas song:
Well, Dec 13. 12 days ’til the Big Day. I think we all know what this means.
Bing Crosby & The Andrews Sisters – Twelve Days of Christmas
John Denver & The Muppets – Twelve Days of Christmas
Bob & Doug McKenzie – Twelve Days of Christmas
Straight No Chaser – Twelve Days of Christmas
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 10:03 PM EST reply actions
Straight No Chaser...
Awesome.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Where's Monk when you need him?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
...And I'm back after losing the last 90 minutes to Straight No Chaser.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
more Christmas tunage
http://www.npr.org/2011/12/09/143453381/first-listen-john-zorn-a-dreamers-christmas?sc=fb&cc=fmp
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 10:05 PM EST reply actions
Is it possible that I have missed this and somebody has already posted it? I'm just gonna leave this here.....
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 13, 2011 10:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
BUT HE PLAYS CHESS
on his aaaaahPhone
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 13, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the most hideous sound to my ears
is that of a southern drawl
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Goodness, that guy should not be in front of a camera
except when he’s on the field.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
I think he's hilarious.
Brendan’s opposite. Never seems excited or upset about anything. I LOVE it.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
what the shit
“he’s always G’d up and lookin’ right”
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
translation
“Kyle Lohse is a fine individual who is always aware of the latest fashion trends. He never embarrasses himself by dressing like one who just fell off the back of a garbage truck. Mr. Kyle is an excellent example of the way a professional athlete should dress and I hope more follow his lead”
you just have to get through the “colby” talk/mumbling/random growling noises
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 13, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
colby sounds like a complete redneck
thank goodness he can play baseball.
by zoomzoomj88 on Dec 13, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
he likes to play chess. suuuuuuuure
Id love to hear Colby do the “peanut…walnut…cashew nut…pinenut (which is a town as well as a nut)…” bit from Best In Show
by jealousblues on Dec 14, 2011 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
made it to the playoffs in both my handegg leagues
albeit, one was only 6 teams, so it would have been pretty f’d up if I didn’t make it. I play my brother, and moocow plays tehzachattack in first round. my other league is normal size, and I stumbled into the playoffs at 7-7. now I get to play one of the teams with the best record, that narrowly missed the bye
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 10:32 PM EST reply actions
i missed the playoffs
by 6 points, thanks to the season point total tiebreaker.
by zoomzoomj88 on Dec 13, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'm in the playoffs in 4/4 leagues. Best season I've ever had.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
wow, congrats
pretty impressive/lucky ;)
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Impressive! I didn't just squeak-in in any of them. 10-4, 10-4, 9-5, 9-4(got a bye).
Of course luck is a part of any ff season, though.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
I'm in the playoffs in both
But I have Demarco Murray in one and Greg Jennings in the other, so it may be a quick exit for me.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 13, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Hm. Looking at the match-ups, I'd put my money on me, but it could certainly go either way.
My good friend Tim Tebow might be something of a deciding factor.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
Shit I'm
gonna get Tebowed! Hopefully my defense has another say in it this week. Playing Indy. So that’s good. I was doing great till Fitzpatrick turned into a pumpkin and McFadden got hurt. Had to make a move. Oh well. It’s fun anyway!
McFadden is going to a big factor, too.
There are rumors he’ll play, if McFadden suits up, I’ll probably bench Bush. Lots of intrigue! Good luck, it should be a close one.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
I must admit
it’s probably going to take a miracle to overthrow the fighting finks! Well you may take my land, but YOU WILL NEVER TAKE MY FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!
im the one seed in my one and only league
i barely cared about it at the draft but i got pretty damn lucky. banked 100 bucks and can get 400 more if i win
No, sorry
You’re fine. Just trying to help people that talk about these things in terms of money. I know it isn’t about the money to you, is it?
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 13, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
I say we appropriate the old rupee symbol for this: ₨
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
I had a pretty epic season in my primary league
This was my season. 1-6 after week 7.
Had to win last week to get into the playoffs and did, thanks entirely to MJD.
I have Jones-Drew as well
dude’s a beast
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 13, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
I would say most of your late season run was due to MJD....
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
we had a rousing discussion about the subtle implications of wins above replacement
and yet another discussion about whether or not putting player x in a sub-optimal position would force him to waive his NTC
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
dammit, shoulda read further.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
replacement level isn't average?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
you say tomato
i say pimp
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'd hate to be named Potato, myself.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
It's weird
I always think of a replacement level player as a wall with holes in it like at a carnival.
That you throw a baseball into to win
fabulous prizes. Or a plastic army man. then you can trade 16 army men for a bag of water with a fish in it.
by OKCardsfan on Dec 13, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's a pretty apt description
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
There's a pretty good link to an radio interview with Berk in there somewhere.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
no, they're free agents
it was about westbrook
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
and yet another discussion about iphone vs. the world
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
somehow i managed to not participate in this one for once
Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
by tehzachatak on Dec 14, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Some Radio fella was screaming about God knows what
I think maybe Lego had stolen his car, something like that. So the radio fella pulls out a sock filled with nickels, then Lego grabs a can of hair spray and a lighter…
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
yo zoomzoom or any other east coasters
have you had tim horton’s new candy cane white chocolate hot chocolate?
Balls
Was Willingham expected to get 3 years?
Sources: Willingham’s near agreement with Twins is for three years, $21 million. Sides very close to a deal.
We now have a fake Dee Dee Pujols Twitter account.
@deedeepujols
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
i think that's a real dee dee pujols account.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
oh never mind, the name is spelled wrong
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
#pujolscrieswhen
fake deedee’s comments are taken out of context
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
HItler reacts to Pujols leaving Cardinals
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Dec 13, 2011 11:25 PM EST reply actions 9 recs
HAHA
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Oh, that is wonderful.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 13, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
pretty excellent
i lost it at “it’s okay, we still have berkman”
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
that's one of the best one of those I've ever seen
I even forgave him for calling his own hit and run!
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
agreed
most of them are…meh, but this is great
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
"His butt would hold up that long"
“He already hobbles around.”
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 13, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not that bad. We still have Berkman.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
awesomesauce.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
in terms of long standing memes
hitler reacts to… is definitely in the god tier.
Swing and a high drive to center field...GET UP BABY...GET UP BABY, GET UP...OH YEAH - Shannon, Gm 6
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Dec 14, 2011 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
family guy isn't funny anymore
what happened? did the manatees die?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
by IHeartBoog on Dec 13, 2011 11:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
family guy hasn't been funny since it came back from being cancelled
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
when did it get canceled?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
99? 00?
something like that
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
I really liked the bank vault episode
and the one with quagmires dad
but I didnt watch at all after those
by jealousblues on Dec 14, 2011 1:44 AM EST up reply actions
what?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 14, 2011 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
there should be a law
cartoons shouldn’t run for longer than a decade
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
lets add reality shows to this
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no
survivor is still awesome
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
survivor sucks, it was OK the first couple seasons
but now it’s just the same thing over & over again
Balls
Well, it just gets harder to find the good ideas
Back when only 3-4 channels showed original programming, there was more of a filter to allow good ideas to rise to the top.
Now with who knows how many channels producing original programming, a lot more total crap inevitably gets on the air, but there are still good, original shows out there, but they represent a lower percentage of the total new TV out there.
true, but i guess like everything, there's a lot of copycats
once something is shown to be successful everyone jumps on that bandwagon & runs it into the ground
Balls
reality shows get one year
I could get talked into two, on the condition that someone straps Simon Cowell to a rocket and fuckin blasts him into the Sun.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
we need more shows that make a farse of the industry they are in
how about one where they take some kid and just make him CEO of a company passing over those that worked their butts off for years?
Or how about “presidential idol?” where we can do the same with our whole political system
by jealousblues on Dec 14, 2011 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
Simon Cowell doesn't deserve to see the sun
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 14, 2011 2:51 AM EST up reply actions
For reality shows, can we just have a rule saying that there shouldn't be any?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
this is more like it
they have completely ruined television
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Except baseball.
The only reality show I watch regularly.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Let's just stop making reality shows altogether.
Question Answered: Not Pujols. Not Luhnow either. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY TEAM?!?!?!
South Park's stayed pretty good, at least up until the past 3 episodes of last season
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 14, 2011 2:51 AM EST up reply actions
what up shitlords?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
listening to the berkman interview
find the link above and listen. it is awesome-o 5000
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
There are 1400 comments,
how bout a relink?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
#lazyriverrat
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
thanks
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
prince for right field....lol
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Straight No Chaser
Boys got talent.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
shopping for a used car is a frustrating experience
do you guys think i am better off working with a dealer or prowling craigslist/autotrader/etc for sales by owners?
you'll get a better deal in a private sale,
but it would be worth your money to have a shop do a full check on it.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
do most auto shops offer this service?
it would be convenient if a knew auto mechanics
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
My in-laws live in Schertz!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Need one of those little shirt stickers.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
a place name like Schertz offers a wealth of possible jokes
e.g. George Brett Schertz his pants twice a year.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
thank god he uses preparation h
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, that's quite a drive for a car i don't own
it’ll probably be difficult enough to get a private seller to let me take it to a shop
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't have a problem getting mine checked out before I bought it from a private seller.
I’ll ask my brother if he likes his Austin mechanic.
Still not a werewolf.
i have a shop in san marcos that i go to
but i don’t have any way of knowing if they’re good or not, other than when i take my car there, it does come back with the problem gone
by prophetjohn on Dec 13, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Have they ever told you that you need to replace the flux capacitor?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Pretty much what you'd ask for in a mechanic.
My brother really likes his mechanic on 183 and Anderson (probably farther than you want), if you ever have reason to suspect yours.
Still not a werewolf.
i guess the main thing is i have no way to gauge if their prices they're quoting me are reasonable
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
You could call other places to get a quote.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Have you checked yelp?
I don’t put too much faith in yelp, but it can help with a general gauging.
Still not a werewolf.
didn't occur to me
i think i used the reviews on their google whatever page
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
yes, some will do it for free,
most will charge for an hour of labor or so. I’d expect to pay between 50 & 150 bucks.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
yeah, I bought mine from a private owner, got a hug discount on blue book
but you have to make clear upfront to the buyer that you’re not making any deal until it gets checked out. Any mechanic can do a check on it if you tell them your situation.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
as friendly as a hug discount sounds, it was actually a huge discount
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
aaaaand clear upfront to the "seller"
that’s it, I’m going to bed
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
they sold you a car, AND gave you a hug?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 13, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Hug first, car sale after.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
sounds like they were really tugging on his heart
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
KBB is inflated anyway
its like everyones asking price or something
by jealousblues on Dec 14, 2011 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
A Carfax would be good too.
It’s like $30 last I checked.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
depends on how much you want to spend
if you can reach a 2-3 yo. car
i’d get a certified used car
having someone check it out in must modern cars requires them to be able to plug into the cars own diagnostic system
if they don’t have that capability, or factory software for a laptop, checks won’t do you much good
if not, just do simple things
listen to engine with hood up
drive with radio off
accelerate to high rpm and let off the gas-blue smoke in exhaust, forget that one
how long does it take ac to get cold
lots of websites can give you hints on things to look for for particular car in a particular year, eg, early 2000s steering chrysler products, oiling problems in same vintage toyota and lexus 6 cylinders, etc
TLR is gone, long live the king
how am i going to make the largest investment of my life without even driving the thing?
i don’t consider that an option, really
by prophetjohn on Dec 14, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
i've done it 4 times, it's not that big of a deal if you know what car you want
you can test drive a similar one in your town
Balls
ah ok, so you're open to anything, truck, suv & car?
didn’t you just get a VW a couple years ago?
Balls
yeah you're better off looking close to home at dealers & private sellers
i’ve never dealt w/ craiglist buying cars but i know folks who have with varied success. autotrader.com is the biggest site but they don’t always have all the private sellers. i’ve never liked cars.com., they just don’t have as good of a selection. does texas have something like carsoup.com? it’s a local state site for private sellers, it started up in Minn but it’s in more states now
Balls
I had a huge screw-up with an old bronco I bought in 2004
Was advertised as “perfect”, when I received, had clearly been wrecked. bent frame, hood wasn’t linear, etc.
Clear title, owner had pics of it “mint”, so once I received it I really had no recourse, unless I wanted to spend a month to try to drive it back 700 miles and go to court. DO NOT RECOMMEND.
It’s worth the plane flight to check it out.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
its a bitch
I had someone want to come down $200 from what they were offering the car for
(I could get a NEW car for 2k more)
by jealousblues on Dec 14, 2011 1:46 AM EST up reply actions
and dont get me started on the Aholes on craigslist
that list their 91 Geo Storm with the name of every car possible in the description so that POS shows up on every search I have
by jealousblues on Dec 14, 2011 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
people who i am NOT following keep showing up on my twitter feed with no indication that they have been retweeted
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I assume you're not talking about the "Promoted" tweets that show up from time to time?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 13, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
no its some dude named rich kurtzman
maybe i am following him and twitter is fucking up or something
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
the @deedeepujols account is pretty brutal
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
i thought following @money was funny
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Car people
I think I may have bent my axle today. How much is it gonna cost to get that fixed?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2011 12:12 AM EST via mobile reply actions
'97 accord
If that matters
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2011 12:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Fuck
Even if it’s not broken but just bent?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2011 12:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah, something like that you want to take it to an mechanic who specializes in imports
that ain’t cheap. parts come from Japan & stuff
Balls
Front
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2011 12:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
how'd you manage that?
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Swerved to miss a freakinf ladder in the middle of road
Hit curb
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2011 12:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Umm
How would I know difference
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2011 12:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
are we talking front or back of car?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
Front
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2011 12:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
good chance it's just a rim.
It wouldn’t be the axle because it’s a front wheel drive car, so it’s one side or the other.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe a bent wheel?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
I hate women...
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
oh? do tell
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Maybe I should specify
I hate teenager girls that lead you to believe one thing and then go ahead and do the exact opposite. Like this girl I really like who decides to talk to me onky to ignore me 5 minutes later. I mean, WTF. Make up your mind for pete’s sake
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
I love you, however, d-dee.
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
Hell no. 20.
18 and 19 year old girls are still well within my reach
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
haha
maybe find yourself a cougar
or just stop expecting females to behave rationally
also, hit on her best friend and ignore her. two can play that game
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I like that.
The “hit on her best friend” thing. I have had a couple of cougars before and, well, I wasn’t impressed
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
pretty much spot on, though.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
this
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2011 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
I tend to find older women
too damn clingy. They are desperate because they think they are running out of time to find a suitable hubby.
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
please tell me you're a teenager too
also, young girls are just as stupid as young boys
it gets better with age. well, sometimes it does
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
completely ignore her this will tell you where you stand
if she makes an effort you are golden, if she doesn’t and you have made clear that you are into her then you are doing you both a favor
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Well, the thing is
that she does make an effort and then doesn’t. She throws me as much mixed signals as Theriot throws the ball away.
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
then back off completely this strikes me as a game girls play
where they like the attention a guy gives them a lot more than the guy. She will just keep feeding you enough to let you think there is something more there move your attentions elsewhere and the situation will be straightened out in no time. I am not saying she is evil, or even knows she is doing it but it is simple biology so treat it as such
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
replace her with a tiny mid thirties quick legged dominican that enjoys flying
until she cries
give her a ring
and then non-tender her ass
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 14, 2011 1:10 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
DFA
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
and go rent the Tao of Steve
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
in the DR?
Paulspike is somewhere in Cental America, I think
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2011 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
It's The Game, dude.
That’s what they do. ‘Come here, come here, come here! Get away, get away, get away!’ They’ve been doing this since the dawn of mankind.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 14, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
You are 20.
Stop worrying about this. If a relationship is hard at 20, it is not a good relationship.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
don't worry. there are plenty of people that love me that I don't love back.
part of life, gdm.
Still not a werewolf.
i didn't want to open up that Pandora's Box for anyone else
and have them fall into your web of lies & shenanigans
Balls
All chocolate chip cookies
should be oatmeal chocolate chip cookies.
That is all.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 12:46 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I like regular kind better
although, they are probably worse for me
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2011 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
As long as it's chocolate chip, it's all good.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I've tried inquiring about oatmeal chocolate chip cookies at different places and people look at me like I'm crazy
I KNOW they exist dammit! Just tell me where they are!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
in my oven
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Well bring them out and share!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 1:08 AM EST up reply actions
thing is, i put cocunut and nuts in them too
they might be too much cookie for you
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Not gonna lie, that probably is too much.
I like my cookies simple. And with chocolate chips. So pretty much just chocolate chip cookies, oatmeal or otherwise.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
nuts absolutely do not belong in cookies
coconuts are totally cool, but nuts are not
Balls
by gdm426 on Dec 14, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Chopped walnuts in choc chip cookies is nice.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
THANK YOU!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
i've been saying this my entire life & will continue to do so
till my fiery death that makes the news
Balls
I can't say I've been evangelizing it, but I have been living it
And I think that’s what counts.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
When we baked choc. chip cookies for Christmas in my youth, my dad would always eat the ones with walnuts and my sister and I would eat the others.
So, clever rascal as I was, I decided one year to fix it so that there were way more non-walnut cookies than walnut cookies. Unfortunately, this backfired when my dad ate all the walnut cookies AND a fair amount of the nutless cookies. I learned a valuable lesson in moral hazards that Christmas.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
to kill your father?
no wait, GDM that’s too far man.
break his legs? yeah, that’s not too far, but far enough to show you mean business.
my mom never made xmas cookies, she always made a german chocolate cake. but when she did make cookies she make some with nuts for my dad because he was a secret commie & loved nuts in cookies.
Balls
to kill my father? what?
I just meant that I learned that when I plot these things I shouldn’t assume other people’s behavior is static.
The cookie baking I think was mostly a thing my sister and I always did, in part for fun when we were little, but mostly so we could eat them.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
it was an attempt at humor
your dad at all of his & most of your cookies that one time so he needed to be punished somehow so he wouldn’t do that again.
i always assume people don’t like nuts & when i find out they do a part of me dies inside
Balls
How about a half walnut on top of the brownie?
Then you can just pick it off and honest, upstanding Americans can enjoy their brownie the way god and Thomas Jefferson intended?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
my family didn't come over on the Mayflower & escape the Britt's iron fits
of requiring nuts in brownies just so traitors like you can force your twisted beliefs down my throat
Balls
What say you
To peanut butter cookies?
by Cheeseballs on Dec 14, 2011 1:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
There's a little place called the Daily Bread on Manchester Rd
They have these mountain cookies. They have oatmeal, raisins, chocolate chips, walnuts, and coconut. Fantastic
by Cheeseballs on Dec 14, 2011 1:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Does everyone else have to block 4-5 spambots a day on twitter?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
You're more popular than I am.
1-2 a month here.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
The seem to come in bursts for me.
I had three in one day, but hadn’t had one for like a month prior.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
Flip waffle makers:
Why do I need to flip a waffle maker?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:12 AM EST reply actions
you don't
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
The waffle (maker) is a lie?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
that thing taking up counter space
and hardly ever gets used is no lie
but i’ll have waffles like 5 times a week!
that’s a lie, cause no you won’t!
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Heh.
I’m looking at waffle makers for my wife. The flippy ones just don’t make any sense to me. Just wondered what the point was.
Think I’ll just go with a non-flippy one and call it good.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
I think the idea is that it helps the batter cook more evenly or some such.
Dunno how much it actually works or helps.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
Random band names from archive.org
mamaSutra
Crystal Beth
The Heavy Sandwich
The Pejoratives
Fever Crotch
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:31 AM EST reply actions
Oh, good.
Unidentified club again. Hate those bastards.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
I'm cool with 2/30 if that's what it takes.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 14, 2011 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
that was the number i said i would go up to as well
problem is i have seen some payroll calculations saying we are at around 98 million and Dewitt has said he wants to max out at 110. And you probably need 1-2 million for a loogy
overflow ahoy.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 14, 2011 1:39 AM EST via mobile reply actions
But I just got this thread all broken in.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 14, 2011 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
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