St. Louis Cardinals Sign Free Agent Shortstop Rafael Furcal
As Albert Pujols was introduced to as a Los Angeles Angel of Anaheim in California, the Cardinals completed the first step in their offseason Plan B, agreeing to a contract with free agent shortstop Rafael Furcal. Derrick Goold reports in the Post-Dispatch that the deal is for two years and $14 million. The Cardinals traded for Furcal at last season's non-waiver deadline and he was instant upgrade over Ryan Theriot. Primarily batting leadoff, Furcal posted a .323 wOBA (.255/.316/.418/105 wRC+) over 50 games as a Cardinal. His range and arm were an upgrade in the field but Furcal made 10 errors in 422.1 innings at shortstop. Perhaps most importantly Furcal was the creator of the "Happy Flight" mantra of the Cardinals' improbable World Series championship run.
Bill James projects Furcal to have the following 2012 offensive statical line:
.270 BA / .338 OBP / .394 SLG / .732 OPS / .324 wOBA
If we value 1.0 WAR at the market rate of $4.5 million, the Cardinals are paying Furcal in anticipation of him providing 3.11 WAR over the two years of the deal. The James projection may be a bit optimistic but it represents the significant potential upside of the Furcal signing. Furthermore, a healthy Furcal provided 0.9 Fangraphs WAR in just 50 games with St. Louis last season. Health is indeed the key; even so, Furcal seems a fair bet to provide the Cardinals surplus value over the life of this contract.
Perhaps Mozeliak and Matheny' were okay with the idea of heading into 2012 with Tyler Greene penciled in as the club's starting shortstop. Pujols opting to leave the organization for a 10-year, $254 million contract with the Angels of Anaheim likely caused a shift in the club's Hot Stove strategy. The payroll flexibility of not paying Pujols over $20 million in 2012 and 2013 likely freed them up to ink Furcal to this deal. Greene will now shift to the bench as Furcal injury insurance and utility man, perhaps even becoming a right-handed platoon partner for Descalso at the keystone.
On Friday Goold reported that the Cardinals had checked in with free agent outfielder Carlos Beltran, hoped to bring back veteran infielder Nick Punto, and had touched base with lefty relievers J.C. Romero and Mike Gonzalez. The signing of Furcal could be the beginning of a series of free agent signings for the reigning World Series champions.
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I'm comfortable with this
It’s a short term contract, and Furcal has decent upside. He was also a good clubhouse presence. I just hope Tyler gets enough PAs to gauge his real value into the future.
Even better, he's not Theriot.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Seems slightly expensive to me, but I'm ok with it
I like this much better than signing Rollins, who provides only slightly better production but at much higher cost. Though Rollins is probably more likely to stay healthy, but if they really are that confident Greene can play a little, that shouldn’t be too big a problem.
I’ll also feel better if they can get Punto back since he fields the infield so well.
at least slightly
if he’s half as good as reyes its not bad
but reyes set the ss war-bar at about 3.5M/ fWAR
so furk better furk a little better than 3 total
TLR is gone, long live the king
i'm still thinking this
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/padres-designate-jeremy-hermida-for-assignment.html
if he comes cheap why not?
because TLR
He got DFA'd by the Padres...
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Uh, because he's not very good?
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Greene
Why no talk of him starting at 2B, or getting innings there, with the Furcal signing? If his bat is good enough to play, get should be able to get time at 2B.
or descalso shifts to third greene to second
come on, dirty dan is a gold glove caliber 3b according to gold glove award givers.
So what do we do with our 2dbl MVP? We've already got a logjam at 1B when M. Adams comes up
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
should've read whole sub thread. I was thinking of an earlier discussion
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
still tg should spend some time in the OF
got the speed and arm for it
TLR is gone, long live the king
if the cardinals are ready to go with descalso at second base
it’ll be a shame if greene doesn’t platoon there; he has the platoon advantage vs. left-handers and he’s probably a better second baseman to boot.
As well as being an emergency outfielder, of sorts.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Now that we have a SS locked up for two years
and Tyler Greene as a backup/insurance plan
I would love for a small discussion on a certain prospect, since we seem unable to cultivate our own at this position
What do you all know, if anything, about Manny Machado?
hes the #1 rated SS prospect per BA. Hes the #1 ranked Oriole prospect.
My question to you all is, if you could swap Shelby Miller for Manny, would you? Does a position player hold more value over a pitcher? Maybe the fact that Shelby is nearly ML ready, while Manny is another 2 years away change your opinion?
my love for you is like a truck
machado's distance from the major leagues and his positional uncertainty
no to mention his mediocre year last year eliminate, for me, the position player advantage.
Nevertheless
I’d give Machado the edge here, by a bit. He’s very much a blue chip prospect, and I’ve heard no credible source say he’ll be moving off SS anytime soon. He was billed as the kind of IF one can build around, and I see nothing to downgrade that thus far.
I’m mighty pysched about Miller and likely have an irrational attachment to seeing him with the BOB, but the logical side of me says the Orioles hang up first on this phone call.
KG of BP said scouts feel he's likely to be a 3B in the future.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
I hear what you are saying
It’s a bit of a tea-reading exercise when trying to sort thru a guy like KG relaying info second-hand from the primary evaluators. In this case, I don’t think KG has said the MAJORITY of scouts think he WILL move off SS anytime soon, but rather that SOME scouts have questioned whether he’ll have to. And I thought that since then, Machado had largely allayed those concerns via his play in 2011.
I could be wrong, but I don’t really have a dog in the fight – not an O’s fan, and certainly a Cards fan. I’d be hard pressed to not be intrigued by a Machado for Miller swap.
I'd rather have Miller I think. He's closer, and if Machado moves to 3rd he's just becomes the best 3rd base prospect of the group we have
FWIW, it sounded like KG was saying there’s at least a 50% chance that he’s a 3rd baseman. It’s more of a projected physical growth issue than poor play.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
If it's ONLY his size
that makes him suitable for 3rd, keep in mind this is the organization that employed Cal Ripken for a long time.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
No Way....
…Shelby is a potential flagship starter; shortstops can be replaced more easily than aces. No way I trade Miller for Machado straight up.
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
i think he is now
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
If he is I suppose we could repeat the thought exercise and just sub him in for Machado
Also, if Machado’s stock has fallen maybe he’d be easier to acquire. Gast, Jackson, and Schumaker for Machado, make it happen MO!
lol trading Skip Schumaker for something of value
Sign Yoennis Céspedes?
by tehzachatak on Dec 10, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They're pretty interchangeable
Really depends on feeling about power vs glove. I think the scouts still like Machado’s over power projection a lot more, despite Profar’s similar numbers at a younger age in 2011.
Well that was Baseball Americas 2011 ranking, im not sure if they have an updated ranking out at the moment but I will check
I’m with you Danup, i’m just curious if the desperation for a chance at a legitimate SS is as tantalizing to me as it is to other people, I would not get rid of Shelby, but id trade Martinez in a heartbeat considering the depth we have at that position
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 10, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
It would be tempting to trade one of our SP prospects for a stud positional prospect at a premium spot like shortstop.
Its not like its ever going to happen, how many times have you seen high ranking prospect trades?
But its just a thought, id love to see some out of the box thinking on the organizations part to get us some depth at the position
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 10, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
It is a cool thing to think about...
Since Miller seems like such a sure thing (as much as you can consider a pitching prospect a sure thing) when it comes to at least being a viable starter, and probably being a darn good one, I’d be pretty hesitant to trade him for anybody. A top middle infielder would at least make me consider.
exactly
i would venture to say a top SS prospect is more valuable then a top pitching prospect, but Shelby is almost a sure thing, while Manny is surely not. That maybe balances this hypothetical trade a little more
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 10, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
No. No. No.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I would rather go after Hardy, personally
And then shift him or Furc to 2nd. I know VAL just resigned him, but with Machado, they may move him if they get a good offer. They could use help at third and in their BP, two areas we have depth. Maybe Cox and Swaggerty or someone more established, like Salas or Sanchez paired with M.Carp.
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 4:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
how expensive is Hardy?
something like 10 million a year, no?
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 10, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
I am not sure, but he is only 29
And put up 4.8fWAR last year. He has had three 4+ WAR seasons.
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 5:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Matt Carpenter is expendable for sure
i’m sure, we have the pieces necessary to get that deal done, but I would want him this year, not 2 years down the road when Machado is ready
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 10, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Well if it meant throwing in Jackson or Greene
To get him now id be fine with that. We could even ask for one of their other lesser MI prospects in return like Hoes or Scoop
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 5:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
meh, I don't think the O's are looking to trade Hardy unless we offer more than he's worth.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I'd do it, then again TINSTAPP
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Ryan Jackson is now the Cards' top SS prospect, right?
has his stock declined recently? Just curious.
I think I’d rather keep Miller and hope Jackson can cut it once Furcal leaves. (I think I’m still a Greene skeptic FWIW.)
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
It's intriguing but I'd hold onto Miller.
If it was Martinez or even Martinez plus another one of our mid-top pitching prospects, such as Swagerty maybe, for Machado I’d say yes.
Manchester City: 38 points, 12-0-2, 1st in EPL, +35 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 3 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 10, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Mr. anderson?
could he be a viable backup at first? I think he’d offer more pop than Mr. Harvard(hamilton)
because TLR
I don't think either of those gentleman will be on the team.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
whoever ends up on the bench as the fourth outfielder
or maybe craig, with the fourth/fifth outfielder bolstering the defense in right with berkman sitting.
Why would Berk sit with what he did last year? Unless he regresses or get's hurt?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
He played like 3 out of 4 days this year and did quite well, if he plays well again next year why would he be bench relief?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
i don't understand your question
but if he plays 3 out of 4 games again next season, someone has to play 1B 1 out of 4 games
I was doing it wrong on DanUps statement = never mind
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying "with berkman benched," I just figure that the backup first baseman will typically come in
because berkman’s got the day off, hopefully always against left-handers.
Rog
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Molina, Craig, Freese
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Craig.
Though I could still see one of them making it if there’s no FA OF signing, at least while Craig is out.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
What backs up 2B
3B, I don’t know…
"I always thought he was very handsome. I liked his eyes" - My late Grandmother referring to Rogers Hornsby
by Hoosier Cards on Dec 10, 2011 5:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
3b - Descalso or Carpenter
2B – Greene and hopefully Punto
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Who's on 1st?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
ha..i thought it was a legitimate question.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
You should consider youtubing some Abbott and Costello
Or watching Rainman again at least :)
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
oh i know the bit.
just didn’t cross my mind.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
schumaker repost...
we could still have….
12-man pitching staff
8 starters (molina, berkman, descalso/punto, freese, furcal, holliday, jay, craig)
bench: descalso/punto, schumaker, cruz/anderson, chambers, greene
in this case, skip serves as fourth middle infielder (potentially third if you consider DD as main/only freese backup) and fifth outfielder.
obviously the chances we bring skip back decline if we sign another outfielder, which i’m in support of.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 4:44 PM EST reply actions
Carpenter needs to be on the bench.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
i think carpenter's a good trade candidate.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Organization can't love him if they didn't call him up in Sept.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
or TLR didn't love him
i believe he was quoted as saying something the effect of “OBP is the most dangerous statistic in baseball”
Yea, but his explanation after that was less unreasonable
But yea, I guess it could’ve just been Tony.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
as i recall
that rant was more about people being singly focused on one or two stats as opposed to the full picture of a player. for example, saying a .350 obp player is clearly superior to a .340 one. more to the point, the idea of taking an at bat isn’t to look for a walk, but to look for a good pitch to hit. good hitters will swing at a pitch they can damage, and if they don’t get such a pitch they will take a walk. i think our team this past year was a good example of that. in other words, having a good obp is merely a result of taking at bats the proper way and is not something a hitter should think about while hitting.
I thought we had very good at bats thsi season for the most part, Yadi generally always put up good at bats and Berk did as well
Pujols expanded the zone as it’s know and Holliday seemed to as well especially late in the second half but over all the team seemed to bat well. Team offense reflected this, and I hope that is repeated next year.
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
What TLR should have said
was that some specific misunderstandings about the importance of OBP and how it fits into overall hitting are dangerous.
Probably send him packing with a check for $25,000 to give back to his original team.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
I don't really see a reason to give komatsu back
in exchange for leaving chambers on the bench, except that chamber is probably a lot more fun to watch.
It remains to be seen whether he can hit ML pitching.
That is also true of Adron, but he can still learn. With Komatsu, either he can do it and stays, or he can’t and is returned (or waived).
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think this illustrates really well why the cardinals shouldn't bring skip back
that bench is composed entirely of players who hit like middle infielders.
I'd like to see him get time in the OF and at second during ST by the way.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I thought the clamoring for shifts to 2B would end when Tony left...
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
I thought a reason they moved players to second was because of their confidence in Oquendo's ability to teach?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I thought it was because TLR
I don’t think Carpenter at 2B is a better option than Descalso/Greene there.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
maybe not defensibly, but he's a much better hitter.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I'm not sure he's that much better offensively.
And I’m sure his defense there would not be good enough to move him.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Guy would put up a .380 OBP easily in my opinion in the majors
it’s at least worth a shot to get him more playing time.
They have tried him out at SS in ST by the way.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Really?
My understanding was he was not much above average, if at all, at third base. I’m sure he’ll have a good OBP in the majors, but I wonder if his low SLG will lead pitchers to attack the zone against him in the majors and limit his ability to draw walks. An easy .380 seems questionable to me, but it’s not out of the question.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
I mean, he's likely to be a better hitter than descalso
defense is questionable because I haven’t watched him a whole lot, but I think he’s better than he looks (if that makes any sense).
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
No, that's possible.
Keep in mind, Carpenter is a year older than Descalso was when Descalso was at AAA. I don’t think the gap is nearly wide enough.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
I'm gonna miss that about Tony
fans throw out all sorts of bizarre ideas all the time (maybe Allen Craig should play second!) and then suddenly there’s La Russa, actually putting Craig at second.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
well if you sign another outfielder it helps things out dramatically, obviously.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
I like this signing, as I was watching the total eclipse of the moon last night,
I was wondering if it was going to lead to something.
by Tuning in from Korea on Dec 10, 2011 4:46 PM EST reply actions
Eclipses have powerful medicine.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Mike Gonzalez or George Sherrill?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:49 PM EST reply actions
I'm leaning towards Gonzalez too,
but Sherrill has always been really really tough on lefties. Last season he struck out 32 out of 81 lefty batters to only 1 walk.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think Gonzo could be a bit cheaper, due to injury history
and he can get righties out, which Sherrill really can’t. But in all honesty, if either would sign for ~$3m, I’d be fine with it.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:07 AM EST up reply actions
this
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
I'm open to this idea
He was pretty awful last year, but he can compete with Freeman and any other lefties we can dredge up during ST, with the hope that he wins it.
What was his story last year? Was he pitching through an injury or something?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
From his wikipedia
Following an impressive 2010 campaign, Kuo was throwing with about 50 or 60 percent effort during the offseason without stopping at the behest of the Dogers medical staff. As Kuo typically experiences elbow problems during spring training each year, it was suggested that the offseason throwing exercises would help him avoid the disabled list in the start of the season.6 However, Kuo struggled early on. He spent some time on the DL with a back strain and in nine games he had a 11.57 ERA. On May 11, the Dodgers put him back on the disabled list with what they termed an “anxiety disorder.” Manager Don Mattingly said he did not know when Kuo would be able to pitch again.7 He did eventually rejoin the Dodgers on August 10 but continued to pitch poorly down the stretch. Kuo finished the season 1-2 with a career high ERA of 9.00 in 27 innings pitched. At the end of the season, he remarked that he was undecided about if he wanted to continue playing.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting. Thank you.
I guess it depends on what the Cardinals think of him when they talk to him, and hopefully to the Dodgers.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
i'd rather just get gonzalez or sherrill
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
I have sympathy for the guy,
but don’t want to be dealing with anxiety disorders. Think back to a certain recent SS of ours …
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
kuo nooooooo
i liked him
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
he's had like 4 tommy john surgeries
i think he’s just hyper prone to injury. but if you catch lightning in a bottle, he’s one of the best relievers in MLB.
Sign Yoennis Céspedes?
by tehzachatak on Dec 10, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, this this this
Sign Yoennis Céspedes?
by tehzachatak on Dec 10, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
That seemed to be the consensus in earlier analysis on VEB
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Goold said somewhere that they took the money
Actually, it may have been Leach, but I’m 100% positive I read it from one of those two.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
bummer.
that is so uninteresting for us.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Any chance there were some contigencies attached?
Like if Jackson and Dotel didn’t qualify for compensation picks we’d get the 3 ptbnl’s and if they did we’d just get a nominal amount of cash.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think those were the original terms.
That we’d get 1 to 3 of the PTBNLs (not automatically all three) depending on the compensation situation.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
He didn't really say anything other than that the Cardinals took the cash a while ago.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
Confirmed in one chat or another, at BP I think,
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I like this one
$7 million feels a little steep right now, but it might not by the end of free agency, and the cardinals had a serious upside gap in the middle infield.
it’ll be interesting to see what ryan jackson does in memphis.
Ellis got 6 million a year earlier
Furcal is definitely worth 7 million a year, so it doesn’t seem that steep to me. It would be nice if Ryan Jackson and Kelton Wong were both ready by 2013.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Kolten
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
really? i always thought it was kelton
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
notsureifserious.jpg
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
really missing the actual .jpg
Always makes me chuckle inside
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Ok?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or maybe

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Or perhaps

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
Finally,
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
that's the one but now I'm liking the others as well
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
This one is really good too, probably ain a tie with the the one from futuroma
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Hows about

Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It doesn't feel all that steep to me, he's probably around a 2 WAR SS each year with a ceiling of 4 WAR if healthy the whole year
Surplus could be as much as $20M IF fucal is healthy the entire deal.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
it could also be over $20 million if he hits .350 both years
at this point I think it’s not reasonable to expect him to be healthy the entire deal. definitely a deal that had to be made, though.
Just gave us a lot of flexibility and insurance and a boost to pitching philosophy
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
No, but like BGH said we're paying him to be about 3 WAR over two years
That’s a pretty big discount. This is why I’ve always liked giving guys with a injury histories low risk deals.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think they had to make this deal. I'd be fine going in with Greene
And yea, I think the over under for games started is like 220.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
it's not that I think greene/descalso can't be major league infielders
I just think that beginning a season with both of them in that role leaves you with very little depth. greene is an upgrade over whoever’d be spot-starting for greene and descalso.
yeah, relying on both greene and deslcalso would have been a little too risky
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
better than theriot and skip though
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
True, there'd be little depth.
I don’t think that forces a Furcal deal though. They could have gotten Punto and another decent bench guy. The Furcal deal is a good one though, as long as it doesn’t keep us from signing Beltran or someone similar.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, what's our payroll now?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
well
if we signed Pujols, we were going to be at ~110, so I assume we were in the 85-90ish range beforehand.
So roughly 92-97, I’d think.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
alright, we still got plenty for Beltran
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
now if they could just figure out a way to foist Westbrook off on the A’s or somebody…..
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
i came up with a way, but it was deemed I was being a dick
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you
VEB is a dick
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
$87 million with Furcal assuming it's 7 and 7
With arbitration for Motte and league minimums to pre-arb guys, it’s in the low-mid 90s, assuming Motte’s the only arbitration case.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
around here we assume Skip and K-Mac are nontenders
hopefully Mo thinks the same, if not thats about another 5-5.5 million.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
K-Mac is history
I think getting left off the WS roster in favor of WB sealed it. Schumaker was probably doomed the day Tony retired.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I think there was talk of a K-mc dead arm.
And Mo has made it sound like Schu could be back.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Just a possibility still
I think he’s more than likely gone if they sign Beltran.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Is there a deadline for tendering/non-tendering players?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
yea, idk when it is though.
before ST I think, since the arbitration cases are heard in february iirc.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think I saw earlier that it has to be by Dec 12.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
This sounds correct
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Signing Furcal makes it pretty difficult to retain Schumaker, I think.
Signing Punto or Beltran means that there is officially zero chance Schumaker is here next year. Personally, I’m hoping for both those signings to happen.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:16 AM EST up reply actions
Eh, I hope, but I assume nothing.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Just so long as they DFA Boggs and McClellan
Especially Boggs
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
well, K-Mac will be non-tendered
I have no idea why they should DFA Boggs though. Who takes his spot? Dickson?
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Things do not turn out well when Boggs takes the mound
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
his overall numbers are good
I think the postseason made him look worse cause he was the only one that wasn’t lights out for three weeks in a row. (That, and one pitch to Napoli that probably hasn’t landed yet.)
Boggs has too much value to just dump; I imagine he has to be worth at least a low-minors prospect or two. But frankly I’d like to keep Boggs around. It’s nice to have flamethrowers coming out of the bullpen after all the 88-92 mph pitch-to-contact guys in the rotation.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
yeah I'm trying to learn the whole sabr stuff and am getting a big boost following VEB, but my eyes have taught me the past couple of years to be a scared whn he comes out of the pen
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
ascared to be an intentional Beave ref as I was thinking about it earlier today
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
it's the walks
the hard thrower with control problems is a familiar story.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
and the hits peaches hanging over the plate I'm thinking of
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Reifer, hopefully.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Why would he DFA Boggs?
He’s perfectly acceptable as a middle reliever, and he makes the league minimum. K-Mc on the other hand is so-so as a middle reliever and will be in his 2nd year of arbitration. We can think about non-tendering Boggs next year when he hits arb.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
yeah keep boggs
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
re: non-tendering Boggs a year from now
that makes perfect sense. I think he’s also obvious midseason trade bait too. Teams struggling to stay in contention are always looking for a cheapish guy with an upper 90s FB.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
hopefully WE'LL be in contention
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
We will be, but I think he means if we need to add someone
injury or whatever. Hell, if Reifer is pitching well at AAA, it might be worth it to trade Boggs for a prospect of some kind.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
I hope you are right it would be good to get value from him l ... just have no confidence in him
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
basically
go look at his numbers from ‘11, and remember that he was the worst reliever on the team last year (not counting guys who were cut, traded, or didn’t pitch regularly, like Rhodes). I think Motte/Lynn/Dotel/Salas made him look worse than he actually was by comparison.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
That pretty much sums up why I made the comment
minus the what the numbers say part, but I will. Perhaps my eyes and emotions deceived me
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
I mean
Boggs makes me nervous too. That part’s rational. DFAing him doesn’t make any sense, cause he’s much closer to average than being outright bad. 3.44 FIP last year (92 FIP-, so he was 8% above avg by FIP) is excellent from your 4th or 5th best righty reliever.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Cool so perhaps we can get something from him then, because I have to go to the garage when he comes out
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
He makes the league-minimum
and will likely have the lowest Leverage Index on the team in 2012. He had a 3.56 ERA, 3.44 FIP and a 3.66 xFIP. That’s not too shabby.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Really...
…even if it is steep, it is hard to have a really poor 2 year deal. Even Theriot’s deal here wasn’t that bad because even though he sucked we are rid of him quickly. Generally I am of the mind to pay a premium to keep deals short and not give no-trade clauses.
Mind you, in saying this, the worst two year deal I can think of might be Schumaker’s. We are even rid of that deal.
Mark Mulder.
Worst 2 year deal ever.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Andrew Jones would like a word.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Excuse me, AndrUw Jones.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...i was just talking about the Cardinals though.
Clearly Andruw’s was worse.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think
the main problem we had in the past was Larussas loyalty to washed up players. Mudler’s wouldn’t have been signed by the team today.
Your right though…awful. But it was over fairly quickly.
Even Schumaker was pretty much worth his deal though
simply because he was pre-arb when he signed it.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:19 AM EST up reply actions
Honestly, if Clint Barmes and Mark Ellis are getting north of $5m/yr
I’m reasonably happy paying Rafael Furcal 7. I kinda hoped we’d get a bit of a bargain (and only a one-year deal) out of him, but this still seems on the cheaper side of what he’s worth, and he’s a good fit for us.
Bummer for T Greene, though. Again.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:09 AM EST up reply actions
Now just sign Beltran and mabye another bench bat and you're done
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
that would be amazing
I’ll be pleased if we get either.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
I have a feeling Mo will be in on Beltran
It’s a lot like Berkman last year.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
I think so. That appears to be the direction its lined up for.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
furcal, berkman, beltran
older, often injured veterans with a “washed up” stink are the new market inefficiency
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
don't forget Carpenter
I’m so worried about him
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
You said it, I've been worried about it too
C’mon Carp be more legendary
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
i'd like another loogy to compliment scrabble
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Is John Gast any closer to be our LOOGY?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I think so.
Remember how long of a look he got last year? And then he made it all the way to AA. I bet he’s one of the last pitcher cuts. That said, I’m hoping for Gonzalez or Sherrill.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Of course, the "long look"
was partially so he could try to teach Jaime his evil pickoff move, which is one of the best LH moves at any level of baseball.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
one of the best i've seen.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Is there any video of this?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
can't find any, unfortunately
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Myabe Ian Snell can change to tossing left handed.
Can’t be much worse than right, right? Signed him last spring.
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
don't know or care
i just want him to pick off big leaguers
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather he just got them out the traditional way.
Why let them on base to be picked off?
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
he can do both
inherit runners, pick motherfuckers off
then dare batters to take a walk
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
so, the question is: will yadi appreciate the fact
That when gast pitches to him, runners on first will actually maintain foot contact with the bag at all times; or, will he be mad that gast is preemptively picking off guys he could’ve gotten?
Also, will yadi teach berkman his secret pickoff communication?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 6:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yadi better teach him
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
the pickoff telepathy worries me
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I don't think there ever was a signal
it was whether or not Yadi looked over and made eye contact before the pitch, I thought.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
maybe Berkman can hypnotize baserunners with his charisma
they’ll be so relaxed that they’ll just accept going back to the dugout with a smile on their face.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
by nota bene on Dec 10, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Speaking of which Berk is the king of looking apologetic when he hit's HRs, will he be the same when he tags out runners after catching runners off base with Yadi's PO move?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Barrett Browning, selected in the Rule 5 AAA draft, might be the guy.
If he’s not too busy writing poetry, anyway.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
could someone explain the rule 5 draft
I thought I understood it. But I apparently don’t after reading some stuff this year.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
It would be easier if you told us what you don't understand.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I understand the premise
but what are the requirements to being elidgible? Also is there a difference between Rule 5 AAA draft and AA draft or is just players from the repective leagues?
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
You're coming around
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 6:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
it was a pretty obvious move
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
About this, VEP -- Did you see Heyman says Luhnow might bring back Theriot?
/I don’t actually believe Heyman, ftr
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
that would be....something
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Er, not bring back I suppose
But just sign
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
heh, that would be funny
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
A few weeks ago Heyman floated a tweet nearly identical to the one he posted today.
I don’t think this is based on anything other than what Theriot’s agent told Heyman.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yea, I think it's bologna. Luhnow's smarter than that.
See my explanation to Evilfrog below.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'm teasing VEP because he was suggesting that Luhnow could be an excellent GM
and is possibly (or probably?) better than Mo, who he considers to be just OK.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
probably
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
not quite an apples to apples comparison
Mo is trying repeat as WS Champions. Luhnow is try to bail water and keep the Stros org afloat for next few years
Miles, too . ..
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
I've spent today like I do after I go through a break up
I’m still in my pajamas.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
Is that second lunch, or first supper?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
tlr on mike and mike
here’s the article about it. says pretty much what all of us have been saying about the org.
Holy shit
ScottMCBSSportsScott Miller
Pujols won’t be returning to Cards anytime soon, even post retirement. Personal services clause ties him to Angels 10 yrs after retirement.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:31 PM EST reply actions
what exactly does that mean?
if he’s in the league in any capacity it has to be with the angels?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like it.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
It means he's an Angel and always will be.
Weird.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
"For Life"
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
= Respected?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Albert really gave the Cardinals the old three finger salute, didn't he?
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
How do you derive that from a "personal services contract"?
I don’t get it. That kind of thing is done all the time for ballplayers.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Albert Pujols' contract means that he is legally forbidden from working in St. Louis
the team that he – allegedly – loves and always had some kind of magically special relationship with. Seems like the kind of thing that he could have had written out of his contract, if he really wanted it to be.
The more that comes out about Albert, the more i’m inclinded to disbelieve everything he’s ever said.
Bursting into song.
So what does this mean for his restaurant?
Not that it has a snowball’s chance in hell in turning a profit in the future.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
it's not like Pujols is personally cooking the food there
I think owning a business and actually being employed somewhere are distinct
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Let Ozzie take it over!
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
how about Waino 50?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
it'll be ten times the restaurant it was
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
by nota bene on Dec 10, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Awesome.
Waino’s a renowned BBQ fiend.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, but it might be a bunch of game meat served.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
he inhales barrier islands food
i think he might be hungry for much more than red meat.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Each steak branded with Waino's autograph ...
and the diner gets to keep the shell casing from the bullet that killed it.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's more likely that he saw it as a symbolic gesture on the Angels' part about committing to him for the long haul
Agreed.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
You mean that King Albert just might have been full of shit?
Say it ain’t so!
/sarcasm
by RollBirdsRoll on Dec 10, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
it'll be awkward if he goes into the hall a cardinal
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Can't see him not doing, in all honesty
He’s had 11 incredible seasons with the Cardinals, and will probably go on to have 3 or 4 very good ones with the Angels and then a bunch of disappointing ones. There is pretty much no way he can have more success in his age 32-41 seasons in Anaheim than he did in St Louis.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:25 AM EST up reply actions
before I get all upset about this, I want to know more than 140 characters worth of detail about what it actually means
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
pass
I want overreact.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 10, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
lol
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think it means he gets to join Bobby Grich as the Angels legends that they
introduce on opening day.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wouldn't it be embarrassing to be an actual HOFer and be introduced with a bunch of folks most people have never heard of, and know you played for the Cardinals of St Louis and had a chance to retire as a Cardinal for life for a few dollars less?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
It really takes all the wind out of the sails of the 99% rhetoric
to realize that people who regard $40M as “a few dollars” condescend to post on the same list as I do.
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
I was mixing in the tax implications of salary and not counting the extra year Angels offered him in my comment and not being serious anyway
But do you get the irony of sitting in that audience when they are introducing new players and sitting in the audience of never has beens being while introduced?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, yah
And I didn’t think you were being serious. I’m just a little testy right now because I’ve been browsing the rest of the baseball web, where every asshole pseudo-writer in the country wants to weigh in on Albert’s moral perfidy. People here have a right to bitch (or not), but not these foreigners. Sorry to take it out on you.
The Mang did more than Milton could
To make the GOBs look good
Then, lest the feat should lose its lustre
They moved him to another roster
No worries mang
move along folks, nothing to see here
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
what
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
That really tugs at my heart
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if Lozano explained this to his client.
what the heck happens to his charity now? the one that’s connected to his old church?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
well, I guess that explains it
the ring’s going to be mailed to him.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I say we keep it
give it to him in 20 years, if he wants it then.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Just send him the cash value.
I suppose he would appreciate that more.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 11, 2011 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
As per the spin article on Lozano:
I’ll wear that cross when I come to it, Albert.. .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
HFS
He’s goin into the HOF as an angel, isn’t he?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 6:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i would think so
- still get retired? I’d imagine so, but isn’t it now reserved for only HOF’s that go in as Cardinals?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
wtf, sbn
number 5***, not “1.”
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
IDGAF about anything else
nobody can ever wear the #5 again for the Cardinals no matter what. I don’t care if they actual build him a statue outside the stadium, or if they actually put #5 on the outfield fence. Nobody can possibly ever wear that number again for the Cardinals though.
I was sad when they didn’t retire Edmonds’ #, but this is different.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Not neccesarily...
…there is still a chance that he totally breaks down or falls into steep decline and the majority of his HOF candidacy is based on his career in St Louis. At that poing it would be up to the Hall’s discretion I would assume.
There's no way he goes to the hall as an Angel.
He put up 88 WAR, 2 WS rings and 3 MVPs. He’s not a good bet to achieve more than 50% of any of those things in Anaheim.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:29 AM EST up reply actions
I completely agree...
but look at Andre Dawson’s career:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1003091&position=OF
11 years with the Expos, 46 war; 6 years with the Cubs 18 war. Went as a Cub. Granted his MVP year was with the Cubs…
Sign Roy O
and the expos didn't exist anymore, once he was elected...
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial, 1946
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
well didn't the owner say to him during the presser
something like “you’re gonna be a partner”
i didn’t get it at the time…
the shitstorm is beginning much sooner than i thought
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 10, 2011 9:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We will see...
…how this shit really goes if he is actually in decline and it accelerates. What if he is actually older than he claims? Everyone will jump ship as soon as they can when this whole deal stinks. This could be sooner rather than later.
by BigJawnMize on Dec 10, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
I like it
if anything it might represent slightly more than the FO originally wanted to sink into SS, but $14M = what, ~3.5 WAR? I think Furcal is a terrific bet to exceed 3.5 WAR over 2 seasons.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Not even
Dollar per wins have been about 5 per these past couple of years. We’re paying him for less than 3 WAR.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
what's the dollar/win for just position players?
I have a feeling RPs are bringing that amount up more than it should..
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
fuck you sbn
why is my name being shown on the right as codyg just posed a comment?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
it's a glitch
make sure you’re caught up on everybody else’s comments, then reload the thread and it should go away.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
i dunno, but look at werth, crawford, reyes, pujols, etc.
Teams have gone nuts in recent years.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
preparing for inflation, I guess
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
he was worth 0.9 fWAR for the Cards in 219 PA
assuming he gets ~1000 PAs over two seasons, if he sustained that level of play, he would be good for 5 wins in those 2 years.
For his career, he’s averaged 1 win per ~185 PA. I think 5 WAR over 2 years might not even be terribly optimistic; as long as he can stay on the field he’s going to be giving us surplus value.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
no, that would be his media projection
but you have to factor in injury risk. I think 2 WAR per year is a good projection, which still makes this deal a bargain. Also he has massive upside.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
i might get fined for this...but here's some unicorn:
JoeStraussJoe Strauss
Just got out of “real” presser w/Albert . Compelling. “I know some people there hate me.” more to come.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:48 PM EST reply actions
no, no
you post strauss
then include the unicorn to mitigate it.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
no a quadricorn.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 10, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Proud owner of a "No, that's a Quadricorn" shirt.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
is there a fine for not including a unicorn?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
we just remember oh yeah, that Ghost Of guy
we’ll have to keep an eye on that one
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
this is a suitable unicorn.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 10, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I wish I had the power to create image macros on here
that unicorn would have been :strauss: a long time ago.
now you're just conflating memes.
this is how civilizations fall. that and leaded pipes.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Heh, Saw "leaded pipes" and figured you were talking about
Mafioso thugs. Took a second to realize, no, he means pipes lined with lead, leading to lead poisoning.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
There is a power you don't have?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
How do you change image sizes on SBN again?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
When posting an image
it usually starts with <img src=" ", with a bunch of stuff in between the quotes denoting the image, and ends with a “/>”. You can control height or width by putting, e.g., width=some number in between the second (close) quote and the “/>”. Use of the preview button is highly recommended….
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Does saving the image in smaller size before posting on whatever website is hosting it also work?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Sure.
And some hosting sites will resize for you, or offer multiple size options to link to. But you can use height, width or both in the img tag to do it on the fly.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
thanks, when I feel up to posting pics I will bear that in mind... I'll tackle that this off season
I’m still learning the simpler aspects but appreciate the advice
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Testing/Unicorn

Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks, ISGIGRA!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
De nada
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
I like this one

Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
that's ridiculous
unicorns don’t have thumbs
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
they don't need thumbs
to punch strauss
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I hope I never have to box a unicorn
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
also there seems to be this air of unawareness
uh, dudes, this is furry. technically.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I wrote a short story about a kid who wants to be a furry for workshop this semester
now whenever anybody in the workshop thinks about furries I’m the first thing that comes to mind.
I’m a little concerned, but I should have seen it coming.
you can't hide behind Benny forever, DanUp
one day you will be known as that guy who wrote that one thing, and you’ll have to pose with it on your 3D book jacket.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it's been suggested in the workshop that I name my first collection "nerd subcultures: stories"
people are going to assume awkward things about me.
be progressive
nerd’s not a subculture
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
What is a "furry"?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
this is only nsfw in the sense that there are legions of nerds L their AO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aTnhO5b8zk
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It's from the adult swim Unicorn attack game I think.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
i've seen screenshots (i didn't want to get addicted)
that’s still a furry version of it. it’s an actual unicorn, albeit in… robot form.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That's a suprising amount of self awareness from Albert
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
it's really a bummer we have to rely on strauss and burwell to report what went on in "real" presser...
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Do we have to wait until midnight?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
nope...2 a.m. he's on the west coast.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That bastard!
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
rec
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
Why are you rec'ing the clarification on time zone?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
RELAX, EVERBODY
You’re all gonna feel bad when Pujols announces that he plans on giving 99% of his cash away to charity.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
I'll only feel bad if he retires at 38 and lets the Angels off the hook for the remainder of his deal.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
this.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
he will then tearfully announce that all the charities will be in los angeles
and fans will hate him again
Fuck albert pujols
there I said it.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Dec 10, 2011 5:56 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
he certainly hasn't lived up the person I built him up to be in my head
but it’s not really fair to put that on him. But in the spirit of community, ok, fuck Albert Pujols.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
Los Albert Pujols of Anaheim
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I am experiencing every emotion it is possible for an actor to feel
HATE, ANGER, PASSION, ANGER, SADNESS, WOE, DESPAIR, UPSET, ANGER, OUTRAGE.
Bursting into song.
This as about Pujols, not Barca, right?
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Dec 10, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyQDr4ZBvAA
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Z3lmidmrY
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Actors do not feel emotions
professionally. They portray them.
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
also, strangely, lust and schadenfreude.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 6:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
INEBRIATION
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
LUST
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Need another bat.
Currently 5 man bench stacks up as follows:
Cruz or Anderson
Descalso or Greene
Fifth outfielder; Chambers or Komatsu or Skip (if Fang gets his way?)
Sixth infielder; Punto ?
Fourth outfielder must be a proficient hitter or even someone who can push Jay to 4th outfielder.
Berkman, Freese, Craig all likely to need above average # of days off. Cards play 6 interleague games in AL parks.
Got to be Beltran ! (Or Cody Ross if Beltran proves unsignable.)
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 10, 2011 6:00 PM EST reply actions
beltran could make this a great team in 2012
if the cardinals aren’t in on cespedes I think they should really chase beltran.
at 25 he'd better be near-ready
if some of the huge contract estimates being thrown around are accurate
't know much about him
i’d be wary of throwing a ton of money at him under the assumption that he’s MLB ready
Yea, I'd prefer Beltran
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
ha...he's young Amaury Marti Cazana
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
OMG SIGN HIM NOW!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
The estimates were what, 5/6 years 60 million?
Or was a bit less, more similar to Chapman?
Based off what scouts have been saying about Cespedes it sounds like he should be able to produce over well over 2 WAR a year making that deal more worth it, but it’s quite a big risk.
Has there been any indication at all the Cardinals are even considering or scouting Cespedes?
He’s definitely an exciting option for fans since he could potentially be a star or even superstar, but I doubt the Cardinals would take such a risk.
I haven't heard anything about it.
The only MLB ready international player the Cards ever signed was So Taguchi so I doubt they are in on it.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
oh and even he didn't start out in the bigs
I think we sent him to AA first.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
I haven't heard anything about us being interested
But I also haven’t seen any news about Cespedes since Pujols signed, so who knows. But from what I have heard about Cespedes, I would LOVE to see us take the risk…why not? If there was ever an oppurtunity for us to do something like this, its now. I would rather see us sign Cespedes than Beltran. Most scouts seem to feel like he can step in and play now.
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 6:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Could make this team a greater team 2012
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
I have become enamored with Cespedes
I wants him bad
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 6:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I've heard Ross a few times here
but he really sucked last year (albeit mostly BABIP-driven), might not be that cheap, and I do worry somewhat that his career trajectory is going a bit Ludwick-esque. If we can’t get Beltran, I think I’d prefer to look at Coco Crisp.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:36 AM EST up reply actions
I am disappointed, mo.
This is not the cardinal way. There is not NEARLY enough crazy bullshit this offseason.
Do you realize nobody has talked about offering Miguel Tejada a 3 year deal? Nobody is in a public bidding war to get ryan madson for the next six years? Why aren’t we trying to trade shelby miller for dan uggla? Do you realize we haven’t even INQUIRED on Carlos Lee?
I can’t properly fulminate about dumb crap if you’re going to be fucking sensible about this job.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 6:02 PM EST via mobile reply actions 4 recs
Lol. the funny thing is, in all seriousness
If TLR were still here, I would NOT be surprised to see us go after any of those guys.
I am hoping with Tony gone, Mo will put even more emphasis on going with young talent. I’m kind of undecided on Beltran. I know he would make us better, but his age and health worry me.
The crop of SP and OF free agents next year looks very promising. If we don’t sign Beltran, we will have upwards of 45-50m to potentialy spend on FAs (even more if we don’t bring Berk back). We could potentially bring in one of each of the following guys:
OF: Upton, Bourn, Ethier, Victorino
SP: Greinke, Hamels, Cain, Haren, A.Sanchez, E.Santana
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 6:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This sounds like a plan.
Rely on pitching to stay in contention this year, then make a big splash in the next FA market, using the money saved on the AP contract.
I am NOT worried about the short-to-medium-term future of this team.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Oddly enough
the three of four guys we’re hopefully in on (and, I think, may be in on) are all big TLR-type players. Obviously he liked Furcal last year, Beltran is an elite hitting veteran so he’d be all good with that, and the other likely options include veteran lefty relievers like Mike Gonzalez who’d surely get late inning work. I think he’d be fine with all this, personally.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:39 AM EST up reply actions
tom...
…I think you are just addicted to the crazy. Time to find a new girlfriend because the current one + the new Cardinals front office isnt meeting your crazy quotient.
excuse my piggybacking stlfan
also, does anyone know if the new CBA still protects certain draft picks for player compensation?
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, the first 15 picks as I understand.
The Angels had the 19th, so we’re good.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
yeah i figured that
now i’m just wanting ejax to sign with a good team
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
I think for Type Bs it's just a supplemental pick
doesn’t matter what the team’s record is, they don’t lose a pick
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
19 (from losing Pujols) and 23 in the first round
then we should also have at least 3 supplemental picks (Pujols, Dotel, Jackson)
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
nice
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
idk if it starts in 2012 or 2013
but the Cardinals will also be entered into a lottery for another supp-type pick for being in a small market. and then they get extra entries in another second round supp lottery if they aren’t chosen in the first one. It’s a bit confusing, but it sounds good for us, since we’re a small market that still gets pretty large revenues.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
reminds me of 2005
hopefully the pitchers they select work out a little better than mark mccormick, tyler herron, josh wilson, and nick webber.
ew..wasn't that the year before Lunhow was given the reigns?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
hmm
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think that was the year Luhnow WAS given the reigns iirc
they also got Rasmus and T. Greene though, ftr.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
thats right.
Rasmus was used with Boston’s pick for signing Renteria. Greene was selected with our original pick.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Luhnow.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
ugh
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
I have not heard the first word mentioned about Jackson being a FA, bet he is kind of depressed because based on comments during the run he seemed to be looking for a payday
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
Let's just hope that whoever is making the decisions does as good a job as Luhnow's done in the last couple of years.
This is potentially a direction-defining draft for the Cardinals.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:41 AM EST up reply actions
however it shakes out...
we’ll get 6 picks out of the top 100.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
That's pretty good no?
Any word on what’s going to be out there?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
It should be a pretty strong draft this year, AFAIK, better than in 2011.
I think it’s reasonably top-heavy but there is some depth there. You’d hope DeWitt will have assigned a nice war chest for the draft.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:43 AM EST up reply actions
Not knowable yet.
It’s at least #19 and #23 in the first round, the former for AP, the latter the “slot” draft. (The Cardinals are the 22nd team to draft, but Toronto gets an extra one in the #22 slot because they failed to sign last year’s first-round choice.) Then there will be at least one and probably three “sandwich first round” choices. However, the order won’t be known until it’s known what Type As and Type Bs re-sign with their original team, or who they sign with, which can impact things under some circumstances.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
This looks like a good draft order tracker
Cards have 19 (Pujols), 23 (Regular Pick), Supp As- 40 (Pujols), Supp Bs- 57 (Dotel), 68 (EJax)
Round 2 starts at 69.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
That's a plausible set of slots, if Type A/B signings go as predicted.
However, the Supplementals are still not set in concrete.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I noticed that after I posted.
Should be in the ballpark, though.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
It's still the best list out there, probably
and they’re doing a good job of updating it.
A warm thought, of sorts: the list as currently presented is the WORST we can do. Unexpected re-signings would only move our choices up, not down.
"That’s what a baseball player does: he uses the glove half of the time." -- Rick Horton regarding the DH.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 10, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
Plus, the Cards are in the lottery too.
Draft well, guys.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
It may be just me
But I never thought the closest comps to the Cardinals as on org would be Pittsburgh and Kansas City. I’ll take the extra picks though.
Not a word so far on Edwin Jackson.
I would think the Marlins would be interested, considering they missed out on Wilson and want to sign everyone anyway.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:36 PM EST reply actions
yeah
it’s odd that the buzz about EJ has been basically nonexistent. I guess he didn’t really cover himself in glory during the postseason, so I wonder if that has something to do with it.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I'm surprised too,
Especially with all the interest in Wilson, Buehrle and Kuroda so far.
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 6:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sweet
You see this was their plan the whole time, if they can’t get Pujols they will resign Furcal… Brilliant..
How big?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
So Fielder it is then
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty rfhb
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Me Too
Nothing takes the sting off losing Albert like a Fielder, Beltran, Furcal signing. Maybe even sprinkle some Oswalt in there.
by northwestniner on Dec 10, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh, no, no Oswalt.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Rzepczynski not big enough for ya?
Greedy bastard.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Is Grudzielanek still playing?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
retired after 2010 I think
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Doug Mientkiewicz?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure he's retired
My last name is 12 letters though, and I’m a Free Agent.
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmmm
Can you play 2B? You’re hired.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm easily better than Schumaker
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
We already have him for a few years right?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
at least 4 counting 2012, yea
starts arb years in 2013
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
I should always take a minute before I respond to TC's comments.
Note to self, never assume you know what he’s alluding too dammit
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Never mind TC
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
MacGhilleseatheanaich
That’s the world’s longest name in Gaelic right there
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
gesundheit
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch is a town in Wales, and
longest place name in Europe. Listen here
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Can it play second base?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
I went to Llanfair last year, on holiday
it’s nearby I think.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:45 AM EST up reply actions
Dont you mean "a big fucking name player"?
Carlos Lee just hit the trading block….
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 6:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't want a big name *right now*
because I don’t see any big name FAs I like for us.
I think the real leverage losing Albert’s payoff gives us is not the ability to sign FAs but the ability to take big salary dumps without having to give up top prospects.
And my impression is this FO does its best work in July.
The Mang did more than Milton could
To make the GOBs look good
Then, lest the feat should lose its lustre
They moved him to another roster
I don't think we're taking this "Sign a Big Name" discussion seriously
But how is Carlos Beltran NOT a big name? Am I the only one that remembers the 2004 playoffs?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
not the same guy....at all
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
he was 4.7 WAR last year
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
in 2004
he was 6.6 WAR, was damn near in the 40/40 club, and played gold glove defense in CF.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
In 2009, he was a 7.6 WAR player
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
that was 2008
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'd love to sign 04 Beltran
I don’t mind if they sign 11 Beltran, but I don’t mind if they don’t, either. … But who might be available in July on an expensive contract with only a couple years left?
The Mang did more than Milton could
To make the GOBs look good
Then, lest the feat should lose its lustre
They moved him to another roster
Josh Hamilton if the Rangers somehow suck.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Not relevant to size of name
Point is that he’s a well-known ballplayer.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone a fan of the movie "Once"?
Listening to the soundtrack right now. It’s not as special as when I first started listening to it a few years ago, but still a number of songs that I enjoy.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 6:39 PM EST reply actions
so if we signed beltran to 12+ would we loose our 1st round draft pick to SF?
and we won the world series.
no
no arbitration offer
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
sick
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
gotcha
i wonder if there will be a habit of GMs signing arb decliners 11,999,999.99 per/yr to retain their draft pics
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
is that a new rule or something?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Would we have to go to a special school or something?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yea.
It’s going to take forever to actually memorize all this crap. I hate so much of the new CBA.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
well if this is a new rule,
11,999,999.99 contracts would be an obvious move to make.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
i'm so confused
i was told type a/b stuff is going away (at some point, i don’t know when) and instead they’ll base draft pick compensation based on what the arb declining players sign for.
i also heard 12million was the cut off. i don’t know what any of this takes place, or if it’s in place now
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a little late to the news.
but I really like this signing! Nice, reasonable move by Mo! Of course, I will change my mind if he is injured for most of the contract.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
everyday line up
(can we have an everyday line up now?)
1.) Greene 2nd
2.) Jay CF
3.) Holliday LF
4.) Berkman 1st
5.) Craig RF
6.) Freese 3rd
7.) Furcal SS
8.) Yadi C
9.) Pitcher.
Looking better.
Grit != flat out sucking.
not until we sign Beltran
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
I really hope he can play center
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
put craig at first
berkman’s a former all-star center fielder anyway.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 10, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
vomit
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
Dude's got almost 1300 career innings there. Easy choice for CF
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fun Fact
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
and I was hammered earlier for suggesting Berk in RF when Adams comes up earlier dammit
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
This
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
Both better options until we see what kind of hitter Greene is.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
Why the hell do you have Green leading off and Furcal batting 7th?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
because I'm still worried about Furcal having repeating his OBP of less than .300
Grit != flat out sucking.
you mean like Greene's career .307 OPS?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
you know
It wouldn’t be hard at all for me to go back and search for many of arguments about Tyler Greene not making the most of his opportunities at the big league level; and find several comments of “SSS”.
Do you think Tyler Greene is a true talent .307 OBP guy?
I mean, if someone thinks furcal is better there that’s fine. Its not a slamdunk either way. I like furcal’s pop down in the order more, and greene’s base running leading off.
Grit != flat out sucking.
right now I'm not sure there's any reason to believe furcal's true-talent OBP is lower than greene's.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 10, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i think they are close enough that greene's speed will edge him out
Furcal is a 33 year old short stop. They don’t always age the best.
I mean, he could go all berkman on us. Which would be totally awesome and sure, put him there. But right now, having not taken one hanging breaking ball in spring training, I like Greene in the leadoff.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Seriously?
If they were both in their prime. But did you watch Furcal last year at all? He’s old and broken down with injuries.
Greene is by no means a great player, but you get similar performance for $6 million less…
Mo is going to fritter away all the money he “saved” with Pujols.
You missed out.
Way better than Theriot.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
this seems so alarmist for $7million
given that the other options include JRoll…
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
do you think Furcal is a true talent .300 OBP guy?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
9% career walk rate.
And he’s 34. That’s old in SS years, but it’s not so old that you can just assume the skills are gone based on one bad year. Two years ago he was a 4-WAR guy.
People said Berkman was done, too.
He has a career .348 OBP
What the hell is wrong with you people?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
he posted a .316 OBP during the regular season w/ StL last year
but he slugged .418. .735 OPS, 104 OPS+, .323 wOBA. w/ good defense. and he switch hits, to boot.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I'm going to go with:
1.) Furcal – SS
2.) Craig – RF
3.) Holliay – LF
4.) Berkman – 1B
5.) Beltran – CF
6.) Freese – 3B
7.) Molina – C
8.) Descalso/Greene – 2B
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
I know Jay isn't in the lineup.
He’s going to force the team to trade someone at the deadline again.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
I would switch Beltran and Craig
Otherwise, towel.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
There are a lot of permutations
depending on whether the opposing starting pitcher was righty or lefty, whether Greene was getting on base or not, etc; but this is a starting eight I could really enjoy.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 10, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
too much power
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Break the mold, like there isn't enough
power in the rest of that lineup?
Think of the leadoff doubles, man!
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
If you want to break the mold, we could bat Craig or Freese leadoff.
If Beltran is the leadoff hitter, it better be something like this:
1. Beltran
2. Berkman
3. Holliday
4. Craig
5. Freese
6. Yadi
7. Furcal
8. Pitcher
9. Greene/Descalso
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
Furcal's got plenty of those
Beltran has home run power, and you’d rather have that with men on base.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Lozano will cut Mo a break after kicking him in the balls.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
why?
they moved him because of injury risks and angel pagan being better defensively.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
He's not the speedy guy he once was
I saw him play here in SF a lot last season. There’s no way he can cover CF well anymore.
Hell, the guy had terrible UZR numbers in RF last year. SSS, of course.
i don't think
Allen Craig, Skip Schumaker or Tyler Greene could either. I’d trust Beltran out there for 50 games a lot more than them.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Pitcher bats 9th?
Weirdo.
Also, swap Greene / Furc. Maybe bump Yadi up one.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
hell yeah
love me some korean food
by HalfWhitey on Dec 10, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm pissed
I was pretty pissed when I saw him smiling in his Angels uniform. However I think I’m more pissed at the Cardinals than at him. Hopefully they make up for it with some big signings.
by northwestniner on Dec 10, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
you're more pissed at the Cardinals?
what for?
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
He has
Essentially a 20 year contract. Ten additional years after playing to stay with the Angels organization.
by Cheeseballs on Dec 10, 2011 7:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
@JoeStrauss
Halos gave AP 10-year personal services deal at end of contract. Cards rejected same element. Deidre had some powerful comments.
What does that mean?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
the cardinals rejected a personal services contract?
how lucrative is this thing? because that makes no sense to me.
yeah
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, idk why they would reject that
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
Do we know what the salary for this part of the contract is yet?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
MOAR DISRESPECT!!!!!
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
How high could it possibly be?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Well, he just got 10/254 to play baseball.
What if it’s another 5M per year after that?
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
There's no way.
I doubt it’s even 7 figures.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
I meant if the Cards rejected a personal services contract
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
We don't really know the extent of how true this is...
Or what the terms requested were. Honestly it doesn’t bother me — if Albert is allowed to judge everything in mass quantities of respect / disrespect, so can the Cardinals’ FO. If he pushed them to a $$$ amount for 10 years that they weren’t comfortable with, and THEN said “Okay, and now I want another 10 years for ‘personal services’ added to the end of the first 10 years.”, well, if it was me I would not be cool with that. At all.
Also consider, if the Cardinals were deferring some amount of the $$$, then Albert now wanting more money in the years used to pay those deferred payments is something they have to take into consideration.
WWCD? CDGAF.
No, it just means the Angels blew the Cards way, way out of the water.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
wat
that may change my thinking on not being mad at the Cardinals
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
I still have no idea what it means
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously
I can’t even come up with a good guess
All i know is
clearly i need to orchestrate myself in such a way as to end up signing a deal with an employer that has a 10-year personal services deal
11 in '11!! To Infinity and Beyond!!! ...
I think it just means he makes appearances
and serves as an ambassador for the team. I don’t think its an actual job at all.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
And so you would be mad at the Cardinals
for not wanting to commit financial resources to Pujols to essentially do nothing?
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
absolutely.
if that was the only hold up? of course.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
It would matter to me how much we would be paying him to do nothing.
Would you pay him 30 million dollars to do nothing?
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
i mean at some point
you have to tell a player, even albert pujols, YOU’RE not the cardinals, you’re a part of the cardinals and if you need more money to be tied to them after you retire, adios.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
personal service contracts are fairly common
I know Craig Biggio has one with Houston.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
VEB failed to educate us about this.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i guess we can't judge until we know if the personal service contract
was figured into the 254 million or not. If not, I doubt we’ll ever learn how much Pujols will get paid
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
The Astros gave out a bunch of them
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Nolan ryan had one for a while
I would assume Bagwell probably has one too.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
if i'm not mistaken,
Musial, Gibson, Brock, and Schoendienst have them. I could be wrong.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
I guess what the issue here is
for how much? If the cardinals were willing to give stock options a couple years ago, I’d think they’d give him a personal service contract, but they weren’t going to pay him millions of dollars (which is what I’m guessing he wanted) for appearing at a couple events a year.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
For fucks sake...
the Astros gave Roger Clemens a 10 year personal service contract and we wouldn’t give one to Pujols? Damn right I’d be mad, IF that was the only reason why the deal fell threw
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
He'll be paid (something) for 10 more years after the contract
to hang out with the Angels and be their icon.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm...
So would that mean he would go to the HOF as an Angel?
by northwestniner on Dec 10, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
HoF decides.
I think it will largely depend on what kind of numbers (and rings) he puts up in Anaheim.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Okay
Well considering that he stands to break a lot of records with the Angels it looks like he could very well retire an Angel.. I think I’m sick.
by northwestniner on Dec 10, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
he's going to get all his big milestones with anaheim
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, the big round numbered counting stats will happen there.
I don’t doubt that will have an influence as well. Also, recency bias.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Do we think that was a factor at all in Pujols decision?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
If DeeDee had "powerful comments" about it,
I suppose it was.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Freese
Do you think the emergence of David Freese in the post season played into it?
by northwestniner on Dec 10, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
wwhat
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Well..
Like St. Louis had no intention of resigning Albert, having a strong performances from other players made the idea of life with him possible.
by northwestniner on Dec 10, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
oh, for St. Louis
Yeah, I’m sure that was part of it.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure Craig and Freese having good season was a factor
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Craig maaaaybe.
Don’t know how having a good 3B affects your decisions at 1B. Like, at all. And if it did affect it, it shouldn’t have.
Well I think the main reason we were willing to let Pujols go is that we thought we were going to be a good team without him
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
maybe not the main reason, but a reason
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, I just think it was about resource allocation.
I mean, if the team weren’t looking so hot for next year, you think Mo would have been more willing to spend too much money on Pujols? I don’t really think that’s how he’s wired.
It sure makes it easier to let him go.
That and 250 million
by northwestniner on Dec 10, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
I think they looked at the roster, looked at the fact they had Berkman as insurance, and realised that (say) a Cardinals team with Craig in RF, Berk at 1B and Furcal, Beltran and (say) Mike Gonzalez was probably going to produce as many wins as one with Pujols at 1B, Berk in RF and Craig on the bench.
Then they realised that the likely only really valuable years Pujols will put up in his new deal are right at the start of it, and it begins to become decreasingly important to retain the guy.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:54 AM EST up reply actions
You'd be upset at Mo and the Cardinals
for not committing 20 years?
I certainly wouldn’t. I’d congratulate them.
What can you do. It’s hard for us to compete with the Angels 20 year $3 billion TV contract.
I have 254 milllion reasons why I am not mad at the Cardinals
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
Should have offered him...
a six-year deal with a 24-year personal services contract at the end.
Media: What do you think of the Cardinals' refusal to include a 10 year personal services clause?
Deidre: Fus… RO DAH!
WWCD? CDGAF.
by JStymie on Dec 10, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What does the 10 year personal services clause
by northwestniner on Dec 10, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
Personal services contract could include some or all of the following:
Spring training instructor
Part-time radio/TV broadcasting
Ceremonial first pitches
Winter caravan appearances
Visits to minor league affiliates
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 10, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There's a limit to he number of appearances per year
But generally they get some number of days of service in various forms. They can say, “We need you here on this day,” and, while he has some ability to say no, he has to say yes more than no.
Boog would have made that play.
lmao
and Mo and Dewitt stagger back, frozen in place for a few moments
11 in '11!! To Infinity and Beyond!!! ...
haha that works too
i find myself always using the flame shout tho
11 in '11!! To Infinity and Beyond!!! ...
this seems so redundant
if he wanted to become Red Schoendienst, he would just show up and be like, can I be like Red? they’d issue him a pair of pants and that would be it. why do they need it in writing?
I was right about Dee Dee’s pull, it seems.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This reaffirms my opinion that Pujols is a dumbass
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
this is like requiring it in writing that Thanksgiving will include pumpkin pie, turkey, smoked ham (plain not honeybaked), and a side of cooked greens
otherwise you’re not coming to Thanksgiving.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 10, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
for the next ten years.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 10, 2011 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know
how anyone they can say they would be mad at the team for not offering him one of these. So you’re telling me the only way after getting paid over $300 million for 21 years with the cardinals the only way you’ll show up and be an ambassador for the team is if your being paid. He comes out looking even worse IMO.
by CentralILcardsfan on Dec 10, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this
I obviously have no idea what it’s like to be a professional athlete, but I would think after all the organization has done for you (in this reality, Albert signs with the Cards) that if the Cards said, hey Albert, would you mind coming out on opening day each year, you won’t get paid (or paid very little), I would think that if the player truly loved the organization, he’d give up one day during his retirement to see the people that paid to see him all these years.
This all lessens my opinion of Albert, and though i never had an opinion of Deidre, this lessons my opinion about her as well.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
the more I hear of the Pujols family, the more I'm reminded of a spanish term for such people
“Corroncho con plata”. They come off as very simple people who have come into a great deal of money and fame.
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
The more I think about it
the more mad it makes me Red, Lou, and whitey show up every year and do these things, and to my knowledge none of them get paid. Hell some ex players like Edmonds would do anything to come back. Hopefully now Ozzie will to.
by CentralILcardsfan on Dec 10, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
i have a feeling that TLR will be also
But not until Matheny is the head coach for a few years. I don’t think it would be right if he shows up this year, or next.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Ozzie has already agreed to be at spring training.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
is that Biggio?
…..also, this is such a great picture. Ozzie made everything look so easy.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
He didn't just want to be an icon
He wanted to be a compensated icon.
Boog would have made that play.
[unicorn.jpg here]
I still need more info. I still don’t know exactly what the Angels offered on this point that the Cards weren’t willing to match.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I take this as
AP wanted to be paid for the services that all the other former players give by showing up at spring training, which I always presumed to be for free.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Me too.
I got it on my phone, though. ’s ok. No biggie.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Me either!
We’re just old school
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
You're not
I don’t have it either. At least I finally got new gmail.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
he might be a little old and a little banged up
but it’s damned nice to have decent SS on the team.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 7:08 PM EST reply actions
i have no idea how he'll hit
but at least i know he’s got range
11 in '11!! To Infinity and Beyond!!! ...
heh. not very many
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Izturis was great in the field. Eckstein, not so much.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 6:58 AM EST up reply actions
This is a gigantic mistake
Furcal’s whole offensive value was his freakishly high home run output, which he’s not going to repeat.
Yes, he’s better than Theriot. But he’s really not any better than Greene.
I knew they were going to do this, too. They don’t want to overpay for a superstar, but they will overpay for a bunch of washed up former stars, wasting all the money they “saved” by not re-signing Albert.
Tyler greene this has to be the new chip
i havent seen an unproven guy get so pined for…
because TLR
by punchinjudy on Dec 10, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Greene can play 2nd. And you have absolutely no idea if he's better than Greene.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
You mean "better than Furcal"?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
No, I was responding awkwardly and unclearly to this
Yes, he’s better than Theriot. But he’s really not any better than Greene.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
Dude, 7 million a year
Furcal has 36 career WAR per FanGraphs, their is a huge chance that he’s significantly better than Greene next year. Greene still gets playing time at second. This just means we see less of Schumaker 2.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
to add on to VEPs point
think of the defensive improvement of Furcal at short and Greene second. Over Greene at short and skip at second.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Well if he plays a decent SS
and matches his career OBP of .348 that’s pretty damned valuable, and he’s much easier to procure than some other theoretical SS that would be better.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure you can entirely downplay furcal's flukishly high home run output
while not also downplaying furcal’s flukishly low BAbip. that’s a really misleading characterization of his offensive output in 2011.
blah
do you look at players’ stats pages at all before making sweeping pronouncements like that? His reg season SLG w/ the Cards: .418. His career SLG: .408. Bill James projection for next year says .394 (to go with a .338 OBP).
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Tyrell Jenkins just tweeted his phone number to some girl on his twitter page
if anyone wants it
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 7:21 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
ahhhhhhh young love
in the 21st Century
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Hilarious
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
the person that pranked zoomzoom could use that number
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
If anyone likes college basketball
Kentucky is up by 1 against Indiana, with <20 seconds left. Indiana has the ball after this timeout.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
thats been on my TV the entire game,
and I didn’t realize who was playing or that it was such a close game. I’ve just been sitting here annoyed by hearing Dickie V and being too lazy to find the remote.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
WOW!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
To the game, not you notwatching it
Unbelievable!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
i just heard what happened.
but didn’t see it. Don’t even care enough about bball to turn around.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
I'll watch the last 5 seconds of a close game in any sport
It’s like watching the whole game, in way less time.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
[comment about porn redacted]
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
GO IU
I can’t believe we beat Kentucky! I thought they’d continue sucking while I was going to law school here.
by Houdinimachine on Dec 10, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
Couple thoughts
1) This is a smart depth move.
2) Tyler Greene is going to have to learn how to function in an environment where he doesn’t play everyday. There are enough reasons to doubt him (K%, sometimes erratic defense) that you not handing over the keys to SS is a defensible and probably wise decision.
3) With Greene and Descalso on the team do we need Skip Schumaker for anything? Surely the club can work out a deal to keep Punto around and ditch Skip as well or are we obligated to tender a contract to him at this point?
4) Can the club wedge Matt Carpenter into this arrangement somehow or will we see him working out in the OF at Memphis this season?
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Also, does anyone know what league average wOBA is for Bill James projections?
It’s hard to understand the projections without that.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
1. yes
2. yes
3. bye, skip
4. i hope he’s on our bench. OBP is too good and he should’ve spent more time here last year.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
I believe people were saying Mo sees Skip as an OF
so the decision on whether or not to keep him will depend on the OF situation. I didn’t see the quote though.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
if we sign beltran or ross
that leaves 1 permanent spot for the rule 5 guy, Skip, Chambers, Carpenter. I’ll take Carpenter please.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take any of those but Skip.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Paying $4m to Skip, in that scenario, would be a gross waste of resources.
I see no reason to believe he’s any better than Adron Chambers or even Aaron Luna at this point, and that money could land something like Mike Gonzalez (or perhaps even a better OF backup).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 7:01 AM EST up reply actions
If Moz sees him that
way then it’s telling that he drafted an OF in the Rule V.
Good luck signing on with a West Coast team closer to home, Skip.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Albert can put in a good word for him.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
heh
Arte Moreno sounds like the kind of guy who thinks diving in to first base on a force play is the mark of a total badass
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Only if it draws the latino market in socal
Do you think that photoshop of Schu as the world’s most Gritiest man would help?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Ditch Skip
We don’t even need Punto, Greene can take his place. I agree that Carp should be on the roster. He can play third when Freese gets injured and would be a good bat to have off the bench.
Mo, your job for the rest of the offseason:
Sign Beltran to a 2 year deal
Bring up Matt Carp
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Mo if you do this, I'll admit you're a good GM
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still surprised that he's looking obtainable on a two-year deal at all.
I mean, I’d sign him at 2/$22M ten times out of nine.
I'd even sign him for 2/26
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
How high would you go?
28? 30? 30 is about my breaking point. 28 I’d still do most likely.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
same
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking about this in the shower. I say do it.
It was a nice shower. And wtf, Ryan Braun? I don’t like that news one bit, even if it will help us next year.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
you were thinking about beltran in the shower?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
In fairness, if the Cardinals sign Beltran I will DEFINITELY be thinking about this roster while in the shower.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
oh, yeah same here
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
I might start showering twice a day too.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Hahahaha that was my reaction.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
weird
Beltran thinks about the Cardinals in the shower, though. Usually it’s in a fetal position while he remembers Waino’s hammer that was dropped
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That would make the
intrasquad games in ST interesting when Waino’s pitching. I’m sure he’d never let CB forget that.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
I think anything north of 25 is asking for trouble
does anybody think we can get him for 1 yr deal w/ an option year?
Or maybe something like 2011: 10M base, PA-based incentives up to 15; mutual options for 2012 and 13, 11M and 12M base, w/ more incentives.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
he's pretty old
old players and injury prone players are always the biggest bargains. we hit the jackpot with furcal and beltran.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
1. love this deal. only two years, wasn’t super expensive
2. Greene should be given every opportunity to win the every day 2B spot
3. add to that Punto, and it would be totally insane to bring back Schumaker
4. MC will probably only get playing time through an injury
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 10, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
this has happened a couple of times in the last few days
I think some people cannot discern when (and which) front-page writers are posting something ironic / satiric / sarcastic…… just a hunch.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It's one of those
times of year where we get an influx of new members. Beginning of season, playoff races, and offseason if/when we make a significant move or two.
Something clever...
robots like country music?
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
What D89 said.
This shit gets stored somewhere in my brain. No idea when or how it got there.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
This offseason might be about to get crazy
jay_jaffe Jay Jaffe
Ruh-roh if this is true. @YSSRTwinCities: NL MVP Ryan Braun has tested positive for performance enhancing drugs
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:39 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
More
jay_jaffe Jay Jaffe
I’m told the Braun story is about to break nationally.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
And again
BNightengale Bob Nightengale
#MLB about to be hit with a bombshell. Hard to believe this news
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
maybe its Pujols too!!
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Mark Fainaru-Wada has an article up
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Fuck yeah
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Dodgers fans lose their minds in 3 ... 2 ...
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Kemp should have won it
also remember when the Brewers were talking about how Pujols was full of steroids, etc. during the playoffs? yeah. I actually liked braun, minus the douchey clothing
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
of what
everytime we play somebody and pujols has a great game, they all say how tired they are of the steroid filled pujols, or the HGH pujols
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Ryan Braun is shocked at this news:

Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 7:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
plz no
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
oh please let this be true.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
confirmed on ESPN in a few minutes
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
in other news, AXE body spray is being investigated
For containing potential pharmacological “active” ingredients.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 7:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
so who has the ryan braun douchebag photoshop handy?
could use it for another forum
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
That’s a shame, actually. I don’t have quite the aversion to him that some do. But still.
BWWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
this isn't making me feel like celebrating
if it was Nyjer Morgan, however….
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Why are we celebrating this?
Dude’s a great player. You shouldn’t feel good when anybody tests positive.
by mattisnotfrench on Dec 11, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He did come off as a little too brauny
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
ah the old Barry Bonds method
Braun says that he did not knowingly inject PEDs
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
they told him it was ink on the shirts.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
tested positive during the playoffs, apparently...
makes the NLCS even more compelling.
Imagine how upsetting this would be, if we had lost?
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
by SleepyCA on Dec 10, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
article says it was Synthetic
not produced by his body…to bad hes not a english as second later guy he could say i didnt understand
because TLR
Failing T/E AND the carbon isotope test is really hard to do without it being a legit positive test
Hell, failing T/E alone is brutal given the 4:1 standard.
Not afraid to nitpick
The generic first round test they do
Is testosterone to epitestosterone ratio. Naturally it “should” be around 1:1, the limit for most sports stuff is 4:1 (4x as much testosterone as epitestosterone) because some people are weird. It’s really hard to be above 4:1.
Once a positive T/E test happens, they do the carbon isotope test (more expensive, also more false positives I believe so it’s not a 1st round test) basically to tell whether it’s natural testosterone vs. synthetic. He then tested positive for synthetic testosterone.
So he had too much testosterone in his body, and it was synthetic. This isn’t some tainted supplement thing.
Not afraid to nitpick
*I guess I should clarify that it's technically not measuring testosterone levels
But levels relative to epitestosterone—-theoretically you can fail T/E if your epi levels fall off a cliff. But having a high T/E + the synthetic……yeah, good luck proving this one wrong without Greg Anderson being your fall guy.
Not afraid to nitpick
Gah fuck this
This is bad for baseball, and bad for me personally because now we’re gonna have a bunch of whiny writers decrying the children (many of whom use adderall as a study aid…)
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 10, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
yeah, the amount of self-importance that's about to waft off newspapers across america
entirely cancels out the way this benefits the cardinals for me.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 10, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
absofuckinglutely
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
"hey guys, I'll make sure to write a piece like this"
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
this
it’s good for the Cardinals in the sense that no Braun for 50 games.
But another super star tests positive. That sucks.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Yea I was thinking this just leads to more steroids BS articles
Helps or hurts McGwire you think? Or it changes nothing?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it changes anything at all for McGwire
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
Eh, I don't read any non-saber/VEB writers, so this is fine for me
Makes the Brewers fans feel worse, so that’s a pl;us.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
This day isn't so bad afterall!!!!
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:46 PM EST reply actions
is it entirely tasteless to post his stumbling towards home plate gif?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
obviously
although a more athletic stumble I have seldom seen.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
Lol, Braun's doucheyness confirmed.
NL Central looking a whole lot more winnable.
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 7:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Hey, uh... probably good policy to stay off BCB-lite for um, a while
Sort of fun for us, but that would just kill me if it was one of ours
It's not hard to stay off a site I never visit
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
I enjoy their work, mostly.
There are some commenters who aren’t so much fun to be around, but that’s par for the course on the internet.
My experience there is bad
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
Mine too
seem pretty bandwagony. Anytime the front page writer writes nasty things about a teams fanbase (us) I lost a lot of respect.
Something clever...
The posters were giant pricks when I was there
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Versus the ones here cheering Braun tested positive?
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 11, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
fair point
Now that I think about it, I’m sad. I wanted to believe the game was better, but I was temporarily distracted by my anger toward most Brewers fans I’ve met /the Brewers themselves
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
I thought about trolling
but then I remembered I’m not a brewers fan
Something clever...
by Dttl89 on Dec 10, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yea, absolutely
If this came out about Holliday or Berkman (pretty much impossible) or Freese, I would not appreciate someone getting in my face about it.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
no cross-site trolling, please.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 10, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Can we troll on here?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 7:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's not trolling if
its the popular opinion. Did you read their blog during the playoffs/ever hear of TPlush?
Something clever...
only if it's witty and entertaining.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i always suspected
i suppose i won’t merit a personal services contract when i suffer a career-ending injury to my funny bone….
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I found this quote from Holliday re: the pujols signing, interesting
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:49 PM EST reply actions
Albert trolled the cardinals
“worry about holliday” or here albert we’ve built a winning team around you, see?
albert: TROLOLOLOL I’ve always wanted to be an Angel
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
By "all of Pujols's money" do you mean "all of Pujols's money except $210 million?"
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i didn't really mean anything expect
some people stated that signing holliday would prevent the cardinals from signing pujols. Wasn’t serious at all
Grit != flat out sucking.
I'd love to know
How many of those people, at the time, were saying we had to sign Holliday because we had to show Pujols we were serious about winning.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 11, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
I'm absolutely giddy about 50 games of
a Brewers lineup with no Braun or Fielder.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 7:53 PM EST reply actions
So.., braun huh?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 7:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
maybe he had a complex about being named 'braun'
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
in an effort to change his name to Brawn
he knew he had to inject himself with steroids to become even close to the Brawny man’s manliness

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
well because this guy just screams "Herp Derp"

Which is what I imagine Braun’s faced looked like when they confronted him with the news.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that doesn't look like it either...
wasn’t there a wider angle?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Also although I know for certain that nobody cares,
Braun was the cornerstone of my keeper team. So, damn it.
AAAHHH DAGNABBIT. now I remember, two days later, the only exception to "F" in VEB acronyms being the swear word.
NCAYFT.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This is terrible news about Braun.
He’s a wonderful baseball player, and if true, this is a real shame.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
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by a fink on Dec 10, 2011 7:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You know, it really is, and he really is.
I will now resume quietly gloating and looking forward to him missing 50 games.
Because it’s a dumb-ass thing to do and it’s his own damn fault for doing it, and he deserves what’s coming.
I'm sure he was just taking female fertility drugs
you know, to become fertile
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
This
And while part of me is glad that he’ll be out for 50, I also like beating teams when they’re at their best. Part of what made that NLCS so sweet was the fact that we took down a good team with great players like Braun and Fielder.
this makes it even sweeter, in retrospect, though
Not only did we beat the Phillies, and beat the Brewers at their best, but we beat the Brewers with Ryan Braun in full-up Beast Mode.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
by SleepyCA on Dec 10, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
yeah, I don't understand why everyone's so happy here
This is horrible. Horrible horrible horrible. I guess from a pure Cardinals fan’s perspective, it’s good for us we get to miss Braun for 50 days, but this is just tragic.
Enough people already write off baseball as a game plagued with steroid scandals and not enough excitement. Now the freaking MVP OF THE NATIONAL LEAGUE has tested positive too? This is horrible for the reputation of baseball and for baseball fans, us included. What a tragedy.
by hr on Dec 10, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
well said
I didn’t hate Braun enough beforehand to be all giddy about this. It just sucks.
I’d probably feel the same way about Votto FWIW, but I’d be doing cartwheels if it had been Phillips or Cueto.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
another huge contract and a steroids scandal
that’s all baseball needs. but then again, we won over a lot of people with that world series… I guess it depends on how much of a prude people are. there will always be cheaters, and then they get dealt with.
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 10, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
i dont hate the guy
but it’s not a tragedy…it’s baseball.. tragedy is VT, sad yes tragic no. he cheated, got caught..
damaging yes
because TLR
Well, at least he's not the real MVP...
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
MOAR LIKE RYAN BRAWN AMIRITE
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 7:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I don't like Braun, never liked Braun, started to hate the Brewers even,
but anyone caught on steroids in baseball is sort of sad. Somewhere tonight, little kids have a disgraced hero, and that is always kind of tragic. Even if it helps our guys.
Luckily for me
I grew up wanting to be The Ultimate Warrior. Whew.
by HalfWhitey on Dec 10, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
here i thought it was the roof.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Let's not start being suspicious of guys that play well.
Braun isn’t the first guy to have a peak year at age 27.
And Pujols’ prime > 7.8 WAR
Rookie Pujols = 7.7 WAR
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
your comment was fallacical
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
I thought it was more fellacial, personally.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 7:17 AM EST up reply actions
I think that comment deserved the response it got.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
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i think it's a valid comment
i didn’t say that all people who improve their performance are on PEDs. i never suggested previously that he was on PEDs. jesus, guys
I didn't take it like that. Its all good.
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 8:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I mean, he's a player coming into is prime who went from being very good to very, very good.
I don’t think we should be automatically suspicious of that. It’s not like he’s Brady Anderson or something.
Anyway, the comment didn’t bother me much. It bothered me more when you called someone out for responding to it.
But, that didn’t really bother me all that much anyway, and I’m ready for hugs and praising Rafael Furcal.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
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it's statistically very unlikely for any player to put up 8 WAR or whatever it was
therefore, upon learning that a player who just did it after having never played at that level before tested positive for PEDs, i’m not shocked
but yes, the important part is how accurate i was in characterizing braun’s 2011 as “pujols in his prime”
I mis-read the original give and take. My apologies.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
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except that he passed all his tests, during the season.
He failed the test during the playoffs.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
although the 2 days thing is nonsensical, given what braun appears to have been caught using
i think my earlier post is in error. Braun was initially caught for (higher than normal ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone). Injected testosterone stays in your system for a minimum of 3-6 months, not 2 days. That’s one of the things that makes this so amazing, and actually gives credibility ot his agent- no one making what braun makes would be dumb enough to do this, intentionally, in 2011, BECAUSE of the designer stuff that’s out there.
Anyway, you take epitestosterone to mask the higher-than-normal level of testosterone, because the basic cheap and easy drug check measures “testosterone to epitestosterone” ratio. If you are injecting testosterone, you have to do artificially elevate your epitestosterone levels for the entire time the testosterone is in your system. Braun could easily have been doping all year, and just forgot to take his September epitestosterone booster, causing him to fail in the post-season.
Once MLB ID’d that the te-to-ep levels were abnormal, they did additional, $$$ tests, that ID’d that the testosterone was synthetic. That’s the bit that is most damning, but it has nothing to do with the original tests.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
i don't think that's sufficient proof of your claim for me to buy
especially since i can google what joker said below
https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=webhp&source=hp&q=injectable+testosterone%2C+2-3+days&pbx=1&oq=injectable+testosterone%2C+2-3+days&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1013l1013l0l1675l1l1l0l0l0l0l148l148l0.1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=d6a6b13212a1ff43&biw=1366&bih=679
you’re the one making the claim, not me
by prophetjohn on Dec 10, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
but that wasn't what Braun failed the test for.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
i'm not making claims here
you claim to know much more about it than me, but when i ask you for to source your claims you told me to google it. so i googled it and found results saying that injectable testosterone maintain high testosterone levels for 2-3 days. which is what braun failed the test for
by prophetjohn on Dec 10, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
that's cool, man
you’re obviously so much smarter than me, it’s rude for me to expect you to come down to my level
by prophetjohn on Dec 10, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, that was assholish, sorry.
I was just annoyed for having to repeat myself. I really don’t know much about this stuff at all, but it seems like really basic stuff, with a few minutes on the internet.
Anyway, Braun apparently initially failed a test for elevated testosterone to epitestosterone ratio. As I said. above.
Braun was initially caught for (higher than normal ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone).
Not, as you stated,
injectable testosterone maintain high testosterone levels for 2-3 days. which is what braun failed the test for.
It’s about the ratio of the two. Much more complicated than just an elevated level of testosterone.
He then failed a second test, which showed the testosterone was synthetic, not the stuff your link was talking about. The synthetic stuff stays in your system much longer.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
...but
if you’re injecting testosterone, which has the effect of elevating your testosterone level. but you’re not adjusting your epitestosterone level, you are increasing that ratio. according to that google search, injectable testosterone only raises testosterone levels for 2-3 days. so…T/E ratio would only be off for 2-3 days assuming you’re not adjusting epitestosterone levels
i don’t see how it’s so obvious that’s it’s 3-6 months and not 2-3 days
by prophetjohn on Dec 10, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
okay, i think i get your point
he may be eligible to fail the test for synthetic testosterone for up to 6 months, but he’s not going to fail the T/E ratio test after 2-3 days, which is what i thought this whole conversation was about. that’s the test that he would have been passing all season, which is the point you initially raised
by prophetjohn on Dec 10, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
You also inject ep to keep the ratio constant
Anyway, I find it amazing that I am now having to spend time researching stuff to defend the fact that I admitted to being wrong, above.
Won’t do that again ;)
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
how many times do they even get tested during the year
is it possible this was just his first or second test of the year or somehitng
Sorry, I know you're above that. Just trying to nip it in the bud.
Thus “Let’s not start”
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Please be legit, Jose Bautista.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
hitting coaches everywhere hope so too.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Jason Taylor
you guys ever read his comments on Players like merriman getting popped and said i didnt know ? not sure if the NFL and MLB is the same, but he had said that they set it out like a buffet of what not to take..
because TLR
The Carolina Panthers team medical staff was involved in PEDs for players...
so Taylor’s comments are not surprising.
But, again, the NFL just does it’s mind tricks and no one remembers…
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
tried to find it
no i’m saying Taylor said basically the * i didnt know* defense never works cause the NFL tells you, educates you very well of whats legal and whats not…not sure about mlb though
because TLR
any chance they could void his contract over this?
also you have to wonder if this is a result of him trying to live up to the outlandish extension they signed him to. a lot of pressure
Yea, not sure they could actually do that,
But that could make a huge difference in his performance going forward and that extension hasn’t even kicked in yet….
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 8:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
no chance
I think the Yankees tried that with Giambi
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
doubtful
but I imagine the Brewers are off the hook for some fraction of his salary while he’s in the penalty box
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
why would they want to?
There’s no evidence that he’s not going to be the same player off steroids and he signed a below market value contract. They wouldn’t void it if he was taking syringes in the butt in the middle of a walmart.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Braun apparently uses PEDs
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 10, 2011 8:07 PM EST via mobile reply actions
OIC
Kind of sad. Other than the being good for a division rival, being insanely full of himself, and his clothing line, he was a really likable guy
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 10, 2011 8:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
As much as Braun testing for PEDs disgusts me
Indiana University is off the hook right now
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
IU! IU! IU! IU!
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I like this personal services clause in Pujols' contract
So he basically can’t be associated with the Cardinals for 20 years, ANGEL4LIFE
I'm blind from all the douchiness
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
He seems to be a nice friendly guy yea
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
*in Jewish grandmother stereotype*
That Ryan, he seemed like such a nice boy. It’s a shame he had to go and use those steroids. Why can’t he be more like that Kevin Youkilis?
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, yes. Certainly. And why does he wear such schmatta?
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
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by a fink on Dec 10, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was picturing him when I typed this
I was reading it in his voice, in my head
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
Point is around here everyone seems convinced that he's a douche
and we really don’t know beyond the ridiculous t-shirts and such.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
He could also be a witch.
If people want to speculate on his demeanor, who cares? Do you really think you’re going to change their mind by posting a “he could be nice” comment? I don’t. I guess I just don’t get the point.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
I don't quite know how to respond to this, so I'll just tell you my point.
I think he could be a nice guy. I don’t think that either the fact that he likely used PEDs or the fact that he has horrible fashion sense has much bearing on the matter, and I guess that was part of my point too.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
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the sad thing is braun was winning me over a little bit
i used to despise him but i guess my visceral hate for nyjer really mellowed me out towards braun
I found him more likeable this season too
although I think 90% of it had to do with him pulling off the greatest slapstick fall in the history of baseball.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
I couldn't resist
From BCB:
Cheaters…
Come on, dude. Do you even know what taking testosterone supplements do?
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:17 PM EST reply actions
hey, bryan burwell. I wrote a condensed article
For you this week. Just have an intern or copy editor put it in a bag with some random nouns, pronouns, and verbs, shake it a little, and instant article! Or just publish as is, and it will still be as coherent as anything you would’ve written:
Braun, steroids, PEDs, greed Pujols, hypocrisy, McGwire, children, America, trust, hero, Stan Musial, most valuable player more like most doped player, faith, look up to, Bud Selig, CBA, honesty, Hall of Fame, Hall of Shame, unions, $254 million, franchise player, follow the money.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 8:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions 14 recs
I listened to his douchyness on Zach and the Coach the other day
and I wanted to rip my stereo out of my car and throw it out the window…what a dumbass
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 10, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
needs moar racial remarks.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
there's a giant tone change between the article after the presser
and the article after the signing (i won’t link to any of his shit)
is he bipolar or just plain stupid?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
His actual article is more DeWallet slam than Pujols.
HE GOT YOU, TOM!
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
no way they can afford that unless they trade off players
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
I was just wondering
I wonder if the blowback will affect Fielder somehow. Now AFAIK Fielder is clean, but that’s not going to stop the media….
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
too expensive.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 8:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think K-Rod has taken the Brewers out of pretty much any market.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 7:21 AM EST up reply actions
And albert wants everyone to know....
I don’t want to talk about negotations. But to tell you the truth, it wasn’t about money. I’m going to die saying that, because it wasn’t about the money. It was about the commitment. It was about the way he made me feel. [Angels owner] Arte [Moreno] made me feel like he wanted me to be with the Angels forever. He doesn’t want me to be 37 years old and have to go somewhere else. It was a commitment. It was something I expressed myself, and I kept expressing durring the conversation that I didn’t want to go somewhere else, that this was going to be my last contract. And whether people want to believe if it was about the money, I can’t control that.
“Even if I would have signed in St. Louis, people were going to call me greedy and all that. I can’t control that. It was the commitment Arte made to me.”
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
only math pujols cared about was
254>210
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and
The Cardinals offered different concepts, ranging from a seven-year to a 10-year guarantee.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. That tells me absolutely fucking nothing.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
I'm trying to be even-steven about this whole thing
but this self-serving horseshit after the fact is genuinely pissing me off. His wife says they’re not going to stop loving St. Louis, and then in the very next sentence says Albert isn’t a possession, he’s a human being. What the fuck, over.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I think she was saying STL doesn't own him
and he’s free to be a part of somewhere else
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
which no one, anywhere, would have disagreed with
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
While I think it's basically impossible to say anything that doesn't come off as shitty in these spots,
those things are not very good efforts.
clearly st. louis and it's fans aren't commited to their players and winning baseball
good call albert
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
I have a feeling I might develop a Bonds-like hate for Pujols before his career is over
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 10, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
suggesting the new PED testing will reveal what we denied for 11 years?
and that we will never recover from the ensuing schadenfreude?
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
no, thats not what I meant at all
over the years Bonds said plenty of stuff that showed what kind of asshole he really was, I have the same feeling about Albert
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 10, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Everything Pujols says makes me feel better than we got 10 amazing years from him for a decent price and not miss the next 10.
It is really, really obvious how bad he wanted the Cardinals’ FO to feed his ego and give him God Status, regardless of what it would mean for the betterment of the Cardinals as an organization. I think that is what is increasingly rubbing me the wrong way in all this — he wants everyone in the world to treat him with the utmost respect, but does not seem at all interested in repaying the favor.
tldr; what a dick.
WWCD? CDGAF.
upgdate brewers lineup.
Gomez – CF
Morgan – LF
Weeks – 2B
Hart – RF
McGehee – 3B
Gamel – 1B
Lucroy – C
Gonzalez – SS
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 8:22 PM EST reply actions
so much
for a repeat division title
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Just saw the news......
Heh
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i still think they were stealing signs too
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
in no universe
does that hat work on him. It looks like a condom
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
to be honest, it took me a minute to even notice anything about that picture other than the insanely hot groupie
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
I mean
damn
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
why is this a surprise
you think Braun would have Gilbert Grape’s mom as his groupie?
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
I want to see the eventual CJ Wilson groupies in LA.
Now those would be pictures worth viewing.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
I think that little vest thing she's wearing actually looks pretty damn good
Accentuates her—oh, you meant him? I’m still not there, hang on.
"You know one of the side-effects of steroids is smaller balls right, Ryan"
“Huh, oh, yeah, whatever, I’m too busy looking extra-douchey for the camera”
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
when that girl is sitting on your lap
you aren’t “extra-douchey”. You are “role model”.
Sad to say.
Good news is, she’s probably really high maintenance; we’re probably better off. Yeah.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
no way Braun wins his muscle smack arbitration.
…He will miss one-third of the season. Always wondered how such a smaillish player had such large bat speed…
by RedAllOver on Dec 10, 2011 8:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
it someone ddos espn?
It’s not loading
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
love the tag line on Buster's story
One of the game’s best, Ryan Braun becomes unfortunate victim of stronger testing
Unfortunate victim huh?
Grit != flat out sucking.
did anyone ACTUALLY read the braun article?
A source close to Braun said that when he was told about the positive test, he immediately requested to be tested again. That second test, the source said, was not positive. Those close to Braun believe that the difference between the two tests will show that the first test was invalid.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
yeah, what's the big deal here?
Those tests can be 100% accurate, wtf?
by hr on Dec 10, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, this is going to sound kind of stupid, but I really don't understand these drug tests
How long can it possibly take to test a sample of piss?
The 28-year-old Braun had to provide a urine sample for testing during the playoffs, and he was notified of the positive test sometime in late October — about a month before he was named the National League’s most valuable player.
Does it take two freaking weeks to analyze a bottle of piss? Seriously? What the hell do they do anyway? Don’t they just dilute it and put it in a mass spec and look at the results?
Also, why the hell did they wait until he got MVP to announce these, if they knew about it before? That’s just more bad publicity for MLB.
And, how often do they have these tests? Why not weekly? These drugs can’t stay in your system for very long…
Finally, how boneheaded is he to get caught? Of course they’re going to test you at least once in the playoffs? God damn, the stupidity of some ballplayers these days…
by hr on Dec 10, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
just fyi...
CSI is fiction.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'll be honest, I've never watched CSI before
And I guess I overestimated science here. This situation is so disappointing.
by hr on Dec 10, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
I know that they're different kind of tests
But I worked at a company that did drug tests, and those came back within 24 hours. Within 12, usually.
Still not a werewolf.
believe it depends on if they are automated, like blood analyses
C isotopes are combined with GC in order to be compound specific
these are most likely done manually
but still, unless their is a backlog in the lab
all in 49hrs seems realistic
TLR is gone, long live the king
Most designer stuff is out of your system in 2 days
That proves little to nothing
Not afraid to nitpick
but
it doesn’t do much goods to take testosterone once a month
if you need testosterone therapy, you take it every day
TLR is gone, long live the king
If you are taking designer stuff
You just injected, but ruh roh you just got drug tested. You stop using to clean out, so you can take a clean test once the original comes back positive. Voila you have a “defense”
Not afraid to nitpick
Given how badly the MLB does not need this press right now...
I cannot see them announcing the suspension unless they were very confident in what they have. You’re always going to have a “source close to the accused” who believes in their innocence and is willing to say so to the media (and likely does not have all the facts).
WWCD? CDGAF.
Good point. MLB just had an amazing season
for the ratings and the general attention. They surely don’t need sports-tainting controversy.
When the Cardinals won the World Series, Ryan Theriot was batting lead-off.
Bilingual Twitter
at least the Brewers didn't make it to the WS
I don’t even want to contemplate the ensuing shitstorm if this had come down a month after the Brewers winning a 7-game WS.
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
This will all be blown over by the start of the next season.
If anything this timing is perfect.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
by azruavatar on Dec 10, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If I read the story correctly,
“2nd test invalid” doesn’t really do anything but give Braun some good PR.
To avoid suspension, he’d have to show he took a supplement that was tampered with (not just poorly labeled or unlabeled) or took something that no player could reasonably have expected to contain the performance enhancing substance. Those are TOUGH standards to meet.
Makin' toast!
DING
Butterin' toast!
yep
i read that. Also, A-Rod didn’t know, Manny didn’t know, Clemens didn’t grow a third ear.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Clemens is probably coming to your house to scream at you right now
about how he never took PEDs and never dealt with roid rage.
That was always my favorite part about the Clemens stuff – the vehement, unreasonably angry denials.
Makin' toast!
DING
Butterin' toast!
"a source close to Braun" = code for his agent, right?
I’d take that with a grain of salt….
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
i did read it
but also read the prat where a guy says it was synthetic and further testing didnt help brauns case
because TLR
this
To affirm the results and strengthen its case, MLB asked the World Anti-Doping Agency lab in Montreal, which conducts its testing, to perform a secondary test to determine whether the testosterone spike resulted from natural variations within Braun’s body or from an artificial source. The test indicated the testosterone was exogenous, meaning it came from outside his body.
because TLR
That's not in block quotes
How do I know it’s true?
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Your blockquote rejects the material.
Makin' toast!
DING
Butterin' toast!
by dronemc on Dec 10, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Alternate caption:
Selig Reconsidering the Wisdom of Eating Bran Muffins Prior to Lengthy Owners Meeting.
Makin' toast!
DING
Butterin' toast!
by dronemc on Dec 10, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Sounds like an Onion headline
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
So Angels will tender Kendrys Morales
What’s the consensus on him
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:48 PM EST reply actions
ah misread
thought it was non-tender
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
oh
so, I guess they’ll try to see if he can play outfield? otherwise he’s just a really good backup
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 10, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
if I were the Angels though
I’d try to give Albert as many offdays as possible, and then he would be DH on those days
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 10, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
dh/tradebait
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Morales
Trumbo
Cron
How many quality cost controlled first basemen do they need?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
Not a fan of trumbo
had like a .290 OBP despite the 29 HR.
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
but he almost won the ROY!
i agree, and trumbo is the guy Matt Adams will be IMO.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I think Adams had a better BB% than Trumbo did at AA, fwiw.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
yeah a little better, still not that great though.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
i tend to agree with this.
unfortunately, I think both can/will be better, but neither will reach elite status like a Votto.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
that doesn't look right. it should read:
I tend to agree with this, unfortunately. I think….
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
...are positive PED tests really "bad for baseball?"
I’m not convinced. A high-profile one every couple years seems like no big deal, we stare at it for a while and then move on.
...this is kind of like saying those shootings on the wrong side of the tracks aren't really that bad for the place.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I think we can all agree that this week sucks for baseball
Let’s hope Stan stays healthy, otherwise I’m giving up on baseball
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
and I take umbrage to your comment. so I suppose we're even.
seems like no big deal, we stare at it for a while and then move on
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Sigh. You're drawing a moral equivalent between social desensitization to murder,
and sports fans moving past postive PED tests.
Re-umbraged, yep.
And while you're at it, using the "wrong sides of the tracks" comment
to somehow bring class/race into it in some incomprehensible way.
I mean… c’mon.
I stand by it. get mad at it if you want. don't expect your original comment to be non-inflammatory on a blog devoted to baseball.
and I never said anything about murder, dude. “we’ll just stare at it a while and move on” is exactly what I’m talking about. we never hear about the follow up. we never care about the kids in the community affected. we just hear the headline and then never hear about it again. like it’s just not serious enough for us to care, just because it’s over there and not over here.
so keep on squeezing insinuation out of my response. it’ll be the same every day of the week.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Sorry, I just don't understand what you're getting at, then.
I mean, I’m totally with you on people not caring enough about what happens over there as opposed to over here.
I have zero idea what that could possibly have to do with people not ultimately caring much about what chemicals some pro athlete is putting into his body. I honestly can’t see what relation those things have.
then I remain incensed. have fun with not understanding why your comment is maddening and insensitive.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
haha we're making great progress, hugs all around.
Is it an anti-drug thing on your part? Because if so yeah, we’re not bridging that particular gap w/r/t professional athletes.
i mean, is this a "think of the children" argument?
we never care about the kids in the community affected. we just hear the headline and then never hear about it again.
Is this referring to children affected by steroid use, rather than (as I’d been assuming before) kids in bad neighborhoods?
Umbrage for all!

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts -- for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang
http://battingcleanupmlt.blogspot.com/
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Heh, glad I saw this before I got nexdef'd.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, it was pretty bad.
“A false positive every now and then” might fit Y2S’s analogy. “An unsolved murder every now and then” might fit.
But when you catch the (apparently, given the MVP, and the playoff performance) highest profile cheater, and you punish him appropriately- that’s the best possible thing you can do, other than flat out not have any cheaters, if your goal is to “preserve the integrity of the game”.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
I know plenty of people who still have not come back to watching baseball after the strike in the 90s, or because of the first big Steroids scandal.
So yeah, I’m sure it is. Also, even if you think it’s not bad for the MLB as a whole, it seems pretty devastating for the Brewers. They’re coming off their first division title in ~30 years, and they lose one big bat via FA, and their new hero & reigning MVP will now miss 50 games.
WWCD? CDGAF.
That's fair.
That’s basically what I was asking — do the fans who shake their fists and declare that they’re “done” with the sport actually quit, or not? In my experience it’s all been anecdotal (there’s an oxymoron, but whatever).
I think they are bad.
He’s the first young superstar to have tested positive, and I think a lot of people thought this generation was cleaner than the last (which might still be true), but they won’t now, and I think that will hurt the game.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
Yeah, probably.
I wonder some about the public spectacle of punishment, though. Like, are people more inclined to feel that the game is dirty because guys get caught sometimes than they would if there was no testing regimen — or if it was like the NFL’s joke of a system?
It doesn’t really matter; this is shitty anyway, and I sorta liked Braun. Just thinking out loud.
This is a very good point
and, despite being fairly obvious, one that had escaped me before you articulated it.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 7:29 AM EST up reply actions
but who really cares?
It’s bad for baseball in an intrinsic sense I suppose (I’m not a baseball purist at all), but I doubt people are going to stop watching baseball now. Maybe the first time when Bonds was caught, but I think people are pretty aware of steroids in baseball.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 12, 2011 4:17 AM EST up reply actions
to me...
it shows that the MLB is serious about testing
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Dec 10, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right, exactly.
It’s bad for the Brewers, that’s pretty obvious, and that’s 1/30 of baseball. I just don’t know that it will matter much, business-wise, in the other 29/30.
I hope this whole braun thing turns up to be a mistake.
I hope he’s cleared.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
I think it was established up-thread
it’s hard for it to be a mistake
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
If he's cleared its complete bullshit.
as mentioned above a lot of this stuff doesn’t stay in the system very long. The fact that he took a 2nd test a month later and it was clean, means absolutely nothing.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
which makes sense
I guess there’s really no going back. It’s unfortunate though. I feel for brewers fans though.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
Especially with Prince Fielder, their only other superstar, [probably] leaving the team, this is going to be a big blow to the fanbase
and didn’t he sign a 5 year extension recently? too bad…
by hr on Dec 10, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, regardless of how much you dislike a particular team...
It’s never fun to see fans get shit on, and that’s probably what Brewers fans feel like is happening right now.
WWCD? CDGAF.
Just finished watching the World Series Film on Blu-Ray
well done (the bonus section needs a “play all” section) and it looks stunning in HD.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 9:09 PM EST reply actions
Keith Law is suggesting on Twitter that there is no evidence that steroids work.
I seem to recall a few HR records being shattered by some users.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:10 PM EST reply actions
where's your real evidence????
this is no time for facts!
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I've always found that point strange and contrarian.
Maybe if the argument is that they don’t work for guys, like Braun, in their primes… but the things All Those Guys did in their 30s, all in one decade, are pretty damn suggestive.
The HR per AB didn't change for MLB during the "Steroid Era"
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I can't find it
But Mattybobo posted a great link a while back that supported the idea that the baseballs were juiced in some way or another. More tightly-woven, IIRC. Hey, Matt Ybobo, if you see this, mind posting that link again?
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
this? (quick google)
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_juiced_baseballs_myth_040611
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I can't find it right now either, I will have to comb through my book marks
The statistical and imaging technology evidence was compelling.
by mattybobo on Dec 10, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Found it:
http://highboskage.com/juiced-ball.shtml
The stuff about 1993 especially is just wacky to me.
Here's some stuff about the balls themselves
Note: I haven’t read all of this so I’m not claiming I believe any or all of the claims, it just sure looks pretty damn interesting to me: http://steroids-and-baseball.com/changing-baseball.shtml
Also, all of this would need to be updated to look at what may or may not have changed
after 2009. That is, if the theories are correct.
Cool, thanks for digging these up
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
someone is going to reply to this comment in 3...2...1...
by hr on Dec 10, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
this chain of comments has gone full meta in 3...2...1...
by hr on Dec 10, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
i will rec this every time
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts -- for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang
http://battingcleanupmlt.blogspot.com/
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
xkcd should always be rec'd every time
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
here are some interesting correlation graphs
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
B.S.
Steroids increase your strength which help you stay connected longer which lets you rotate faster which lets you hit the ball harder.
This is a critical position.

Notice how compact he is; how tight the angle of his back elbow is.
He can do this tighter and longer than most because of his greater upper body strength.
Boog would have made that play.
by thepainguy on Dec 10, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I read a really cool article about how Bonds' elbow brace could have as much to do with it as roids.
Must go find.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
Found.
http://insidesportsgeek.wordpress.com/2007/08/07/barry-bonds-hr-record-tainted-by-elbow-armor/
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
It's largely nonsense
He’s confusing causation and correlation.
What the device does is it lets him crowd the plate with impunity. Crowding the plate lets him hit the ball while he’s more connected, and the roids let him stay connected longer than anyone I’ve ever seen.
Boog would have made that play.
Keep his back elbow pinched...
…the front arm and the hands up.
Basically, extension at the point of contact is total garbage.
The picture above of Bonds is one that every hitter should aspire to, but I’ve never seen a major leaguer actually be able to get to that position (because they aren’t strong enough).
P.S. If anyone wants to check out my client site at clients.chrisoleary.com all you have to do is register and you can read a number of pieces on the various myths and misconceptions about hitting (of which extension at contact is one of the biggest myths).
Boog would have made that play.
Oh, and keeping the elbow down is a myth
Good hitters keep their front elbow up and in the plane of their shoulders as long as possible.
P.S. That page gave me an acid flashback; it looks like little white insects are walking all over the screen.
Boog would have made that play.
It's a plausible hypothesis, certainly
But what actual empirical studies have been done, as I understand, have not indicated a clear effect on hitting a baseball.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
homers must be down for some other reason.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, it's not impossible. This isn't the first decade in baseball history that HR rates fluctuated.
The few studies that have been done haven’t completely refuted the possibility that steroids help, but there’s certainly some doubt. Believe that steroids help hitters if you want, but acting like it’s an irrefutable fact isn’t really warranted from the available evidence.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
i think its a reach to even suggest that the 2 aren't related.
Its like a drunk driver trying to prove he wrecked WHILE he was drinking not BECAUSE he was drinking. Accidents happen when people aren’t drinking, they just happen way more fucking off when people are drinking.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
often* not "off"
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, pitchers did steroids as well during that time
the ballparks being made smaller, expansion teams, increase valuation of power at the expense of batting average and strikeouts – those were all major factors as well.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 12, 2011 4:22 AM EST up reply actions
This is a thought-provoking site:
http://steroids-and-baseball.com/
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
this is excellent
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Heh. Nightengale:
Braun’s people feeling very optimistic about appeal. Let’s don’t rush to judgement yet. #MLB #brewers
That guy will just regurgitate anything any agent feeds him, won’t he?
Nearly all journalists basically just regurgitate whatever their sources tell them
He just seems somewhat more up front about it than most.
remains not okay with me
the “let’s don’t rush to judgment” is just editorializing. he’s telling us how to feel about the fact reported. laaame.
On a tweet, I'm not really bothered
Then again, I think journalism as a whole would be far more honest and respected if reporters did more analysis and opinion within articles.
it's easier to get agents to talk to you if you don't question what they said.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
This is a dark week for baseball.
First we lose pujols, our franchise icon to a larger market team. Then the brewers franchise icon test positive for PEDs…
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
I knew that fucking bratwurst was a cheater
Yeah, you buddy.

Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
by lightbulb on Dec 10, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
"larger market team"
Sadly, despite the fact that they play in Anaheim of Los Angeles, we have had a higher attendance 7 of the last 10 years.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
Does anyone know the details of the Cards' TV deal?
All I know is that FSMW was the highest rated regional network in 2010.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
But does anyone know the actual terms of the deal?
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Something to make us all feel better
Totally forgot i made this one after they were talking about Carp’s elbow holding up

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 9:20 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
I appreciate this.
Greatly.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
You are now on Pinterest.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
so are you saying...
Carp is your man-crush?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 10, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This made me literally LOL, which doesn't happen often for me on t'internet.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 7:34 AM EST up reply actions
OH REALLY?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 12, 2011 4:31 AM EST up reply actions
holy crap a bad offseason just keeps getting worse for the Brewers...
I almost feel sorry for them.
Sign Roy O
On the other hand...
a 50 game suspension will save them a couple million, about what they have to eat to make K-Rod go away.
Sign Roy O
They still have to pay him, methinks.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
if it's anything like the Ramirez suspension
they won’t have to pay him for those 50 games.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I KNEW there was a silver lining!
Yes!
/cries
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 10, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
This fucking sucks hard...
do you just liquidate Greinke/Marcum/Hart/Weeks and try for 2014?
Sign Roy O
No.
The Brewers can survive Braun missing 50 games. Or at least, they should plan as though they can. Heck, you guys know a thing or two about losing one of your top players and doing OK in spite of it :-)
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 10, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah...
we ended up trading our second most valuable asset to plug that gap and if it hadn’t been for a once in 50 year miracle run there’d be a profound sense of malaise surrounding the Cardinals organization.
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 10, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Too bad Manny is suspended...
he’d be the perfect guy to replace Braun for the first third of the season. Then he could shift to first base.
Sign Roy O
I'm kind of hoping they can find a way to swing a trade for Carlos Lee
Assuming the Astros pick up a good chunk of the tab.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 10, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
Manny got reinstated today. Seriously.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Reinstated from retirement
But I think he’s still got to serve his suspension before he can play again.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 10, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
we don't know what its like to lose our 2 best players though.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
The Brewers have a whole offseason to plan for Fielder's absence
And half an offseason to plan for Braun. I hope that makes a difference.
I don’t think they’ll be serious division contenders if Braun gets suspended, but I don’t think their playoff chances are remote enough (especially with 2 WC’s) to justify blowing the whole thing up, either.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 10, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm
Tried a quick Google search, and I can’t find anything definitive either way on that.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 10, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
So... I came here to make a joke about Albert taking his number from Jeff Mathis,
but then looked back and saw he took #5 in St. Louis from Thomas Howard, a guy even I don’t remember, and I remember Rick Wilkins as a Cardinal.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
no matter who came first
i hope he’s the last #5 for either team
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts -- for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang
http://battingcleanupmlt.blogspot.com/
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
FFFFF, after this,
I am perfectly willing to hand #5 to Erik Komatsu.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
aramis ramirez - 2 years, $24 million
yes or no?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts -- for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang
http://battingcleanupmlt.blogspot.com/
sub-question
ramirez > beltran?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts -- for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang
http://battingcleanupmlt.blogspot.com/
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Beltran>Ramirez
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
no. i'd rather keep berkman out of the OF
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
No.
Freese has produced more WAR over the last two years, and would be considerably cheaper.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
aramis - 16 WAR in the last 5 years
at 2 years, $24 mil, all you’re saying is that for the next two years, aramis will at least match his average annual production over the last 5 years. i think it would be a steal, if he’d go for it.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts -- for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang
http://battingcleanupmlt.blogspot.com/
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
you decline when you get older
some faster than others. NO!
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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beltran's a year older...
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts -- for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang
http://battingcleanupmlt.blogspot.com/
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
he was also a better player in his prime, and recently put up a 4 WAR season
he also wouldn’t be taking up a spot that has 2-3 options already in the minors.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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actually aramis' age 25-31 seasons
are a picture of consistency especially compared to beltran’s. i dunno, maybe i should make it my sig and let that be the end of it.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts -- for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang
http://battingcleanupmlt.blogspot.com/
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
you might as be suggesting a new starting catcher,
because it has just as much chance of happening.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
He wants 5 years
He’s not going to get that, but I doubt he’d sign for two.
by Cheeseandcorn on Dec 10, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone can play 2B!
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a job for freese!
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
he'll break something
the first instance someone tries to break up a double play.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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i mean, i'd like to see him at 3rd...it's all he's ever played. just thinking...
furc – ss
jay – cf
holliday – lf
berk – 1b
aramis – 3b
craig – rf
yadi – c
descalso – 2b
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts -- for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang
http://battingcleanupmlt.blogspot.com/
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
Why are we ditching Freese?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
health would be the only reason
is it reason enough?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts -- for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang
http://battingcleanupmlt.blogspot.com/
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
not unless he has another catastrophic injury.
looked like he was going pretty strong in the playoffs.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
On the list.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
by ClemsonGirl on Dec 10, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think there is a good chance Freese is better than Ramirez right now.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 11, 2011 7:38 AM EST up reply actions
YES
I was just looking at his swing and thinking how nice it is.
Can he play second?
Boog would have made that play.
why not?
actually, i have no clue. he’d probably get beat up on grounders up the middle, so switch him to 3B as soon as freese gets hurt.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts -- for support rather than illumination."
- Andrew Lang
http://battingcleanupmlt.blogspot.com/
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
just say no to ex-Cub infielders
The Cardinals and their fans were privileged to get the best of Pujols. It truly was an honor. And now the Cardinals and their fans don't have to worry about paying for the worst of Pujols.--Miklasz
haha denial is an ugly thing
Haudricourt Tom
Just spoke to someone familiar with the details of Braun’s test and was assured he will be found innocent. If so, horrible this leaked out.
no player has ever succesfully appealed though
why are we giving braun the beneft of the doubt when no other player has gotten it..
No, don't believe so.
Where this would look bad is if the “someone” Haudricourt is citing is a neutral party with knowledge of the test, and ESPN didn’t talk to them before running the original story. If that happened, and it turns out it was a clean test, that’s just atrocious reporting.
If it’s just someone from Braun’s team or the Brewers talking to Haudricourt, then whatever.
I really hope this means something, but I'm skeptical.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
Tom Haudricourt is widely regarded as an idiot of the highest order
so I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were a Milwaukee fan
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
Brian Elliot working on another shutout, 13 minutes left to play.
Only 1-0 Blues, though.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:07 PM EST reply actions
i still find this weird.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
A shutout in hockey? Watch soccer then, your mind will be BLOWN.
by Forsch's2nohitters on Dec 11, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, this.
though the blues are sure giving you a RoI (finally…)
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 11, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
did anything other than furcal happen today?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 10, 2011 10:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions
For serious?
Pujols presser
Reported that Braun tested positive for PEDs
Manny was reinstated from retirement
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
i was here for the presser, manny and furcal
just caught up on MIL’s golden boy’s situation
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Then that's it!
We’re still in on Beltran too, btw.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
This entire week has made me want to retreat into my shell
and get my time machine working back to these days.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 10:16 PM EST reply actions
Does your time machine go forward?
Because I’d really like you to take somebody from 2004 and show him our team. I’d love to see his reaction to Lance Berkman being our star player, the first chief justice of the USA in center, Mike Matheny as manager, lack of Albert, Furcal at short, etc. Be a pretty funny experiment.
Or even better, take Albert from 2004, who I believe would say
“Oh mang, I greally engd up as an asshole .”
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
3 minutes to go in blues game, shutout still intact.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:25 PM EST reply actions
I'll set it at 31.
"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky
by monkeysareblue on Dec 10, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
less worried about Waino, more about Carp
combined for 472.1 IP last two years, heaviest workload in his career. last time he pitched that many innings in consecutive seasons was ‘05-’06, when he threw 463.1 before needing TJ in ’07. hopefully he can correct whatever ailed him late in the postseason this year.
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
are you including the playoff innings as well?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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nope
36 more on top of that.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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508 IP over the last two seasons.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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that is astounding.
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
for today, anyway.
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
it'll be interesting to see how matheny uses him
don’t you think tony would be quicker with the hook, all things considered?
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
For comparison, Halladay has thrown 518 over the last 2 (including post season)
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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who's up there with em?
maybe sabathia? cliff lee? verlander?
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
2011 IP leaders w/ postseason
Carp – 273
Verlander – 271.1
Shields – 254.1
Halladay – 249.2
Sabathia – 246
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Just for fun
You might like to know Nolan Ryan pitched 659 innings in the two season 1973 – 1974. Of those, 333 came in 1974
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 10, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
and the following season he "only" threw 198.
i’d be happy with 198 IP from Carp in 2012. but nolan ryan…sheesh…
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
no sir, i am not.
didn’t even think about them.
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Strauss
Full Pujols story to be posted soon @stltoday. Pujols too emotional to explain decision to kids after notifying agent
Joe Strauss
Could AP be a pain to deal with? Absolutely. But I detected genuine hurt in how process went. Probably turns out best for both parties.
i have no problem believing this.
maybe because i want to.
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
boo fucking hoo
“I just signed a contract so you’ll never have to work, ever” The End
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 10, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
maybe he's mature enough to know
that it’s not in his kids’ (and their kids, and possibly their kids) best interest not to work. maybe he isn’t actually the devil.
In love with the new Gaknar avatar.
by threadkiller on Dec 10, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Strauss
Let’s put it this way: If it was all about $$, I would’ve expected AP to be more bubbly today. Seemed reserved, relieved, a little quiet.
by prophetjohn on Dec 10, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
None of this makes me feel better.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
This is also Joe strauss speculation
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Good point.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
Paging Jon Morosi
I need to know if Pujols was “smiley” at todays presser.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
bs to me
how can you sit there tell people that the man who offered you over 200m
for 10 years wasn’t sincere enough
i can understand bdw is not a warm human being, but really
i can’t swallow that crap
TLR is gone, long live the king
If he really thinks that
way he’s got a damned naive view of the way the world works.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 11, 2011 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
I don't buy his rationalization
The cardinals gave him the 10 year guarantee he wanted. I really wonder what this personal services thing is, sounds like a really good way to divert attention away from everything else. In the end it came down to the 3 or 4 million he referenced in ‘09, he said he didn’t care about. Mo was right, the pujols camp had wanted this shot at free agency for a long time. They knew how would this would play out, and the way it did allows them to put blame on the cardinals and make Albert look like the victim.
by thewizard3 on Dec 11, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It's all posturing at this point
I have no doubt Pujols is offended. I also have no doubt Pujols has been a little bit of a PITA for a while. Star players usually are.
I’m not happy. I’m a little sad actually. But I don’t think it is going to take us 10 years to see that we just dodged a bullet here. Doesn’t mean the Cards will do things perfectly from here out. Getting best in the league production at less than 50 cents on the dollar wasn’t on the table anymore, with him or without him, but we’ve left ourselves room to recover from mistakes.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 11, 2011 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Busy VEB fro a Saturday
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
HERE I AM
DOING EVERYTHING I CAN
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
HOLDING ON TO WHAT I AM
PRETENDING I’M A SUPERMAN
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
aahh Tony Hawk Pro Skater.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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Check that link I posted on my Twitter
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Fuck you rui, I have finals to be studying for!
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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/fanged
nice video by the way.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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fuck you, cody. i have better things to be doing.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Holy Shit
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2101916,00.html
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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arte moreno
has an offer for that black hole…
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Jim Bowden
Cards agree to terms on 2-year 14m deal with Rafael Furcal and continue communication with agent for FA OFer Carlos Beltran
is anything new???
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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Beltran is such the obvious target...
This could be a pretty geriatric team in 2012. Damn talented though.
Sign Roy O
if things break right there won't be much of a fall off offensively
if Furcal 2012 has the bounceback to Furcal 2010(7.2 WAR/160 pace) or anything remotely close, Beltran was on a 5.3 WAR/160 pace last year so adding those two to Berkman and Holliday two of the best hitters in the NL Freese, Yadi and Jay who are all well above average players. Greene has a good chance to be a 2.5/3 WAR 2B, Craig makes sure Berkman and Beltran get plenty of rest without a dramatic drop in offensive production. Descalso, Punto, Chambers/Komatsu, and Anderson is a bench
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
by TomCat009 on Dec 10, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Y2uXjsKjs
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Back of the napkin calcuration
Assuming that Furcal gets a .324 wOBA and league average wOBA is .316 like last year and gets 600 PA and is an average fielder
(.324 – .316)/1.15 * 600 = 4.17 wRAA
0 UZR
+7.5 runs in positional adjustment
+20 runs replacement
That’s a 3.17 WAR player.
He could be worth his contract (1.55 WAR) by only getting 297 PA at his .324 wOBA and average fielding
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
please be prescient
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Then the secondary effect is that Greene is the backup instead of Punto...
and we might get a Greene/Descalso platoon instead of straight Descalso. What kind of value does the secondary effect generate?
Sign Roy O
Too much work
Because projections don’t have splits
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
are you drunk?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
Uhh, I'm sobering up
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Bill James projects Tyler Greene to have a .316 wOBA
that’s such a marginal upgrade.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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though that doesn't include either of their upsides
and furcal’s higher floor.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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What if this means a Greene/Descalso platoon at 2B?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Is Furcal a better fielder than Greene?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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Not to my eye, but who knows really?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
so does this make punto redundant?
SIGN ARAMIS RAMIREZ!!!!!!!?
by EinFesteBusch on Dec 10, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
He's depth at 3B, 2B, and SS and likely comes in at a sub-$1.5M contract
I think he’d be a really good signing
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
not really necessary with Greene on the roster
and why does everyone keep saying his price would be more than last year?
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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He hit pretty well, I dunno. I don't care either way, anything less than that is fine with me
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I know, I was just wondering why his 150ish PAs while being injured most of the year should increase
his value.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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couldn't we rush ryan jackson if someone is hurt as well?
I mean it’s not like punto or jackson are playing baseball because of their offense.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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Funny observation: depth and redundancy are kind of the same.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
This is pretty true
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
as long as we admit, up front, that he's a .650ish OPS guy
If we expect him to hit like a poor man’s Troy Glaus, as he sort of did, last year (.809), we’ll likely end up really, really cranky.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Yea, he's going to regress hard
But hopefully he won’t have as many ABs with good health for Freese and Greene backing up Furcal.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
I would think so
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, that's kind of what I meant by "higher floor"
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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Bill James projections are not very good.
Also, there is such a thing as being too reliant on projections. Greene seems like a very big question mark. He could be very valuable, or he could be terrible.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 11:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Do you have an actual basis to say they aren't very good?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
they're usually the most optimistic out of all the projections every year.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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Doesn't answer my question
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I do not have any basis, just pointing that out really.
I have no idea if they’re more or less reliable.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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Agreed. They're always pointed out as the most optimistic, but I've seen no study that this is actually true
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Don't know about studies...
but he pegs Austin Jackson for a 370 woba. Who wouldn’t take the under there?
Sign Roy O
Shit
I was about to say, .370 wOBA seems waaaaaaaay high
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 11, 2011 12:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
*bill james'
not they’re
my comment made no sense in its context.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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I should learn to read the content part of the comment next time.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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yes. they looked at projection systems.
CHONE and ZiPS consistently were the best. Oliver was the worst, and James was somewhat better.
I can’t find the link right now on my phone.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 11, 2011 1:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
VEB I have a question about a broken keyboard
I’ve been working on a final exam paper and my laptop’s keyboard stopped working an hour ago (I’m at the library now). When I was typing, some of the keys began to mess up (I would type a and it would come out asj) but then after a while I would hit a key (like backspace) and it would do something completely in explicable, like log me out of my computer or type random sequences of keys (5 or more with one keystroke). So now I can’t log onto my computer or run a system restore because I cannot type the necessary commands. I’m convinced this is a hardware issue. Can anyone add to this?
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
Do you have roommates?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Shit like this usually happens due to a spill
You should ask them if one of them used your computer
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
My laptop recently was set in water apparently. Not sure how it happened. But I know they weren't using it.
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
There was some water on my desk. I'm not sure how it got there
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
maybe it happened when I set it on the kitchen counter
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
there anyway to fix this short of professional repair?
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
something like this should do it
Can get them from Best buy for about the same price.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Pick up an external keyboard and use it
You can get a pretty nice USB keyboard for like $15. Get through finals, then find someone to replace the one in your computer with a new one.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
or just do it yourself, I was surprised how easy it was for me to replace mine.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
google your model number, plus "keyboard"
and then buy a little tiny screwdriver. Take out all the screws, remove the old one, plug n the new one, put the screws back in.
Sounds facetious, but it’s really that easy. Works pretty much the same for anything wrt a single laptop series (processor, ram, screen, keyboard, etc).
best bet is to go the USB route for now, though.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Looking at keyboards now
Is plugging it in difficult? How do I know the new keyboard will work?
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
if it's the same model it should.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
well that seems like something I'm going to tackle after finals
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Anyone think MLB will "go easy" on Braun
Since he was just named their MVP?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 11:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
No
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
no.
they should actually strip him and give it to the guy who deserved it in the first place.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
No
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i'm being kind of sarcastic.
but it’d make for fun news none the less.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
They should change the system for giving out the MVP
Have competent people vote for it.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Keith Law gets a vote...
aside from his irrational hatred of the midwest, he’s pretty competent…
Sign Roy O
If Keith Law were a college football guy
He’d vote the SEC 1-14 then move on to the rest of the country.
Brian Cushing was named Rookie of Year honor by the NFL but a revote was taken which he also won after it was learned he failed a steroid test
Should MLB have a revote ?
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 10, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
i read the unicorn's article
Albert’s comments seem to confirm my belief that when the Cards didn’t sign him before last year, that it was over. TLR knew it, so he left. To be fair to Albert, he got his money and a supporting cast that can win. Couldn’t have happened in St Louis.
I really, really want to win a few more Series now to prove we don’t need him. He’ll be lucky if he sees the World Series again with the Red Sox, Yankees, Rangers (and Astros) to beat every year.
Just win
Agreed
I want to blame Dewitt/mo and praise them at te same time
I’ve never felt this conflicted
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 11, 2011 12:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I really fear that the Cards slow-played their negotiations betting that no one would offer him the mega-deal he wanted
and secretly hoping that when the mega-deal didn’t materialize, hoping that Albert would come back somewhat humbled and/or motivated by not getting the offer he thought he deserved.
Once the mega-deal did materialize, they would have had to have realized that there was a good chance Pujols would leave.
Just read the Strauss article from earlier tonight
Basically a run down of quotes from the press conference.
The numbness is wearing off. I’m sad, I’m shocked….I hope he comes to regret his decision but know it won’t change a damn thing.
This fucking blows
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 11, 2011 12:15 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Just read the Strauss article from earlier tonight
Basically a run down of quotes from the press conference.
The numbness is wearing off. I’m sad, I’m shocked….I hope he comes to regret his decision but know it won’t change a damn thing.
This fucking blows
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 11, 2011 12:15 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I could very easily see him come back in a trade...
2018. Matt Adams has just signed a 14 year deal with the Red Sox. Pujols played 54 games in ‘17, and 102 the year before that. Angels’ fans are booing the crap out of him. DeWitt needs a to do something to assuage fans’ anger at losing Adams…
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 11, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He says he wants to stay in the organization after his playing days
Let him. I don’t want him on the team anymore
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The declining superstar with no ties to the org - only expectations b/c of a huge contract...
that’s going to go south in a hurry. At least if he had declined in STL we couldn’t really have been to upset with him since we rode the upswing. The Angels just bought the decline. Fans are going to hate that.
Sign Roy O
He went to a team without a dedicated fanbase
After 10 winning seasons in 11 years here, 3 world series and 2 wins. He came here after he left the DR, claims he wants to stay here forever, keep winning championships, and its not about the money; but then leaves for the Angels just for the money. Whatever illusion I had of him being great before this is gone. I can honestly say I will boo him when MLB inevitable sends him here in 2013.
You’ve already heard all this, but I’m just ranting
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
Do you think that the Angels have a better chance of winning
with a 39 yo Albert Pujols making 25 million than the Cards would paying a 39 yo Albert making 22 million because I certainly do.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Probably. But I'm bitter and angry
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
understandable and considering I grew up a cards fan
and became a rockies fan in 93 I went through both sides of this when an aging injured Helton and his contract made our owners unwilling to offer Holliday 7 years in 08. One year removed from a WS appearance they traded the best OF in the NL because 6/90 was as high as they would go. I understand the feeling, but 3 years later I am happy for everyone involved and am glad it played out the way it did.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
No
As they don’t play in the Central division, which stinks.
22 million out of a payroll that will likely be 140 million (thanks to inflation) is hardly crippling. Oh no, that’s 10 million that the GM couldn’t have wasted signing an over the hill, broken down shortstop to a two year deal. It just forces the GM to have to work smarter.
And that’s short sighted. How much money did the Cardinals lose by Pujols not ending up being a legendary Cardinal? Not just all the press and revenue from the milestones, but long term. You won’t have people coming in to see the statue, won’t have fathers telling their children about his exploits, no special nights honoring him. All of that goes towards making lifelong fans, not the ones that only care about when a team wins.
Why do Cubs fans like the Cubs so much? They never win. It’s because they a connection with so many players.
The net blow is huge, beyond just short term player salaries. I mean seriously, big deal, the team won’t be as competitive for a few years. That out of a history that spans over a hundred. But a lifetime HOFer’s legacy lasts forever, basically.
sorry, but the coninuing grousing about furcal is unadulterated
Garbage. $14m and $254m are literally different orders of magnitude. You get two different kinds of players for $14m and $254m. That’s just obvious.
It is hard to calculate the value of having albert around in his intangible form. Maybe we get this huge PR boost. But maybe we also spend three years having a lot of difficulty because we’re stuck paying a no longer effective 39, 40, or 41 year old a ton of money.
Funny you should mention the cubs, because they have this problem with several players.
I also think that you’re ignoring the value of having a consistently good ballclub. Carrying albert pujols at a large percentage of the club budget in his twilight years might seriously hamper our chances in the postseason. I very fondly remember many championship seasons from my boyhood, even though almost all the guys on the team were gone shortly thereafter.
Rather than hoping to create narratives, we should build the best teams possible now and in the future. Going to the postseason and wiinning championships and world series is the way to build a fanbase, not by locking in to the same players for decades.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 11, 2011 1:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
this likely part of Albert's thinking as well
he wouldn’t want to look around and see a 36 yo Holliday and him taking up 40 million of a 110 million dollar payroll
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
We are doing silence
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 11, 2011 12:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If we could organize that I would go for it
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
i really hope theres a way to do this
and the Cards should play the intro of Pink Floyd’s “Money” when he comes up to the plate
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 11, 2011 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
Angels probably will come here as n interleague game in 2013
Maybe we can do a facebook thing, take an ad out in the P-D, or something
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Sadly I think we dodged a bullet.
The amazing thing to me, is the Angel’s TV deal alone could pay salaries for the 20 years, never mind ticket sales and such.
Sign me!
also, they signed the TV contract AFTER they signed Pujols
Rookie GM could have been left hanging, big time, if fox had played hardball.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
Yep
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 11, 2011 12:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Furcal Done
Beltran is next and then Punto and a lefty reliever (Ankiel anyone with Matheny as his personal catcher?).
I’d be pretty happy starting the season there and then supplementing (no Braun pun intended) mid year.
Just win
I'd like to hear discussion about Tony Cruz
I admit I like him because of his smile and verve, but that said, I have an insidious reason.
You can laugh, but I would like to sign Jason Varitek to back up Yadi. Cruz can then back up Varitek, if you will, and I think he (Cruz) could be Berk’s backup at 1B and also play some corner OF.
I realize keeping three “catchers” is almost unheard of, but I think Cruz might be a special case (versatility)
Why Varitek? Well, he wouldn’t be worse than Laird was, and I would think Matheny would salivate at having a bench-player slash manager type both on the roster and around the clubhouse. Besides, Yadi started 131 games last year and will likely do so again.
Your daily December Christmas song:
Chris Cornell – Ave Maria
This haunting, steampunk version won’t be for everyone.
Bonus!
Andrea Bocelli – Ave Maria
A simpler and more traditional treatment to cleanse your palate, should you need it.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 11, 2011 12:50 AM EST reply actions
Twisted Sister
Does the best Christmas songs.
by DiscoJer on Dec 11, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I've got tickets for Bocelli tomorrow, in Anaheim
If I see Albert there, I’m gonna tell him he’s a jerk.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
I'm certain I'm nexdef'd since I haven't been around
but we do not play the Angels in 2012.
Still not a werewolf.
I want a Cardinals-Rangers rematch
You can take away our star free agents, but we’re still in the World Series
SUCK IT, MONEYBAGS
Still not a werewolf.
Hell yea.
I want to beat the tar out of those guys.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Our odds of winning have to be no worse than the odds of this series taking place to begin with, right?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
No reason to be nervous until it happens.
I still think our team is better anyway. Uh, well, with Beltran. How good would our team be? Waino-Carp-Jaime-Lohse in the rotation, the same awesome bullpen we had in the playoffs, and a similarly super-charged offense! I think we’d be favored.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
But yea, losing would suck ass.
That’s the nature of any series you really want to win — losing would be equally terrible.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
Favored -- not slobbered over!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
...
I find your lack of faith disturbing disappoint.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
in the situation, of course I'd believe it.
but on paper a year in advance, well, then I get shaky.
Still not a werewolf.
I'm the reverse
though I was pretty confident this year. Never really felt like we were going to lose once we started winning in September (except in 2 outs and 2 strikes into the bottom of the 9th in WS Game 5)
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
I think you mean Game 6.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 11, 2011 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
Crap, I totally do.
Thank you.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
aww hell, this is hypothetical
yeah, we’ll meet them in the World Series. and we will do to them in a 4 game sweep what the Braves did to us in the last 3 games of the 1996 NLCS
Also, Albert will be hitless. Mostly silly looking strikeouts, but a few GIDPs (inevitable, Albert.)
oh hell yes I just thought of him Beltran-ing to Waino’s curve
BRING IT
Still not a werewolf.
Yea baby!
What if Shelby Miller replaces Lohse in the rotation and Ks Trout? That’d be pretty sick! I’m pretty sure someone said Trout was the other guy we were considering drafting instead of Miller or something.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
I had to google that. You young pups with your hip meme and your futuristic avatars...
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
The episodes are online for free viewing at mtv's website.
way better than fantasy factory, even with BB back on.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
The inanity of Rob Dyrdek and Big Black was just fun to watch.
(Don’t forget Meaty!)
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
His parents were hilarious.
“My mom thinks I’m still a 15 year old kid, so when she visits that’s how I act.” “I can fake Picassos!” Too much fun.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
Watch these!
http://www.mtv.com/shows/rob_and_big/season_1/video.jhtml
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
Their rotation is pretty stacked.
And their offense should be decent, if unimpressive.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
These guys just read this Albert Pujols comment and don't quite understand it
It was about the commitment. It was about the way he made me feel. [Angels owner] Arte [Moreno] made me feel like he wanted me to be with the Angels forever.
Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/albert-appears-as-an-angel/article_b6ecbcc2-2395-11e1-aeec-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1gCgoZfR4

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 11, 2011 1:10 AM EST reply actions
Kinda absurd thing to say
Isn’t it? But the PR battle wasn’t really in the forefront of his mind. Of course we could ask why he feels he needs to be paid to make some show appearances after his career is over, but he would rather we not.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 11, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
i suspect he decided it would be preferable to be the first angel in the hof
than join the cardinal pantheon
TLR is gone, long live the king
He must have been pretty bitter under all that seething stolidity.
It’s really a shame it didn’t work out. He got to a point where 10 years and 220 million didn’t show that we “really wanted him.” Nothing to be done at this point.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
by a fink on Dec 11, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
plus the blind devotion of the entire state of Missouri, as well as parts of Arkansas, Illinois, and the rest of the region
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
easily overshadowed by a couple 30 minute phone conversations with Moreno
The more Albert talks, the angrier I get with him.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Dec 11, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
not going to lie
today I made a list of reasons why I wanted this break-up to remind myself that some of this sadness is euphoric recall
Still not a werewolf.
Yep.
I was relieved, then befuddled, then bitter earlier today, but now I’m just sad.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Dec 11, 2011 1:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
always worried apu talked out of two sides of his mouth
sometime he was able to issue the local pander
and other times he slipped and let true feeling emerge
because i do believe this was mostly about feelings
TLR is gone, long live the king
It just seems more and more like he doesn't give a shit
The Ad in the PD reeked of a bland PR stunt, and he has said absolutely nothing beyond PR bullshit to make me think he understands or cares about how pissed off and betrayed people feel about this whole thing. He’s not been honest about this at any point over the last several years and I just can’t stand him anymore.
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
its like the 11 opening days, 7 postseasons and the final 82 home games at Busch II never happened
you know, with Clydesdales and hall of famers at all of these events, and a different formal cardinal showing up to tear a number off the wall of a cookie cutter, multi-use stadium….nope, no commitment there…
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 11, 2011 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
former not formal
/need sleep
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 11, 2011 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
It definitely seems like this is more about the organization than the fans.
I think he may be disappointed to find that the fans won’t be the same everywhere he goes. Of course, he might not care about that either.
It really is befuddling.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
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If you read the Burwell article where it talks about
Moreno making him feel like a partner, I think that speaks volumes. With the changes in the FO and TLR’s departure, the problem was that Albert might not always get his way anymore. About the construction of the team, about the coach, about how things were run … it’s all a big control issue.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
You're a Packer fan right?
Weren’t we here with Brett Favre? Mike Sherman let him make calls about personnel, gave him that perception that he had a critical voice in construction of the talent around him, and then the rug was pulled under his feet with Thompson and McCarthy. A NFC championship ensued, but bad feelings festered. A lack of respect was perceived. The annual visits to Mississippi were less frequent and less passionate.
I don’t feel this is all that different, at least when talking in broad strokes. Pujols has a lot more left in the tank, and we don’t have Aaron Rodgers in the wings. Pujols didn’t go to the Cubs for spite or anything. But I think there is a behind the scenes power struggle that was already starting to be lost, as the WAR started to diminish.
This is all admittedly a little bit of an unsubstantiated reading of the tea leaves here, but it’s what I have perceived for the last year or 2.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 11, 2011 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm a big Packers fan.
I think there are some similarities, but this was key for me:
Pujols has a lot more left in the tank, and we don’t have Aaron Rodgers in the wings.When Brett left, ugly as it was, I was happy that he was getting a last opportunity he wanted, and I was glad to be rid of him. I’m not sure I’m either of those things for Albert.
This would be more like Brett leaving in 1998 when Holmgrem left.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
Just saying
I believe he was a little more high maintenance than the local press indicated, and probably had more influence on decisions than anybody cared to admit. As an aside, both Favre and Pujols were terrible to the local press, but much more cooperative with the national guys.
TLR probably took some of the flack on himself IMO. Given that we had no choice but to talk about a 10 year commitment with Pujols, we were reaching that critical point where there would be nowhere else to fill the gaps but those annoying (but cheap) farm products that might be a little too erratic, and a little too unprofessional for Pujols. So we were in a no-win situation where if we sign Pujols, we have no choice but to supplement the roster with the types of players that Pujols will not like having surround him.
I just think we dodged a bullet, because the farm is a big strength now, but I also think we’ll be lucky if it only takes 3 years to figure that out conclusively like we did with Favre.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 11, 2011 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
after reading it
he can kiss my ass. He keeps claiming it’s not about the money but the commitment? 9years isn’t a commitment but 10 is? wtf? Because the Cardinals didn’t just hand him a deed to Busch Stadium, he doesn’t feel loved? Fuck him. Dude’s got more money than I will ever see in several lifetimes and would get even more? Fuck him. I’m not mad that he’s gone, I’m just incredulous at that kind of mindset.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 11, 2011 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
I'm talking about the offer from last year.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 11, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, I did.
I felt really lonely without you peeking in my window.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 11, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
a blessing and a curse
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 11, 2011 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
but not post 10 year deal employment or some bullshit
Because Pujols would have been kicked to the curb when he retired, and he would have badly needed employment that the Cardinals wouldn’t have given him
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
dude must spend money like a teenager at the mall.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 11, 2011 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
its got to be really hard to spend that kind of money at Mike Tyson levels
especially if you arent blowing it on hookers drugs gambling and booze
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 11, 2011 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
Self-engrossed OT: I'm so excited to be done with school for 5 weeks
Over the moon, really.
I could stay up all night and do whatever I wanted
Sleep in until 2 every day
okay, I couldn’t actually do that, but if I wanted to I have that freedom
woohoo!
I don’t even know what to do with myself
Still not a werewolf.
Drive to StL. Abstain from drinking with us.
My wife is off for 3 and half weeks. I’m super-duper excited.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
i still have 3 finals
i’ll be done wednesday evening. and then i start working on thursday
spent most of the day playing video games
me too.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 11, 2011 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
full disclosure
first action after finishing my final final was to go to the library.
I can’t escape who I am, even with cool claims of sleeping all day
Still not a werewolf.
Brewers press release on Braun
Ryan has issued a statement that there are highly unusual circumstances surrounding this case that will support his complete innocence and demonstrate that there was absolutely no intentional violation of the program. We are dealing with an incomplete set of facts and speculation. Before there is a rush to judgment, Ryan deserves the right to be heard.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 11, 2011 1:30 AM EST reply actions
I'm fully willing to give him the chance
but how do you refute testing positive to synthetic steroids, especially when that urine underwent multiple tests?
Still not a werewolf.
It's possible that it was a false positive followed by another false positive.
Highly unlikely but possible. The question I have is about the ‘B’ sample and what was done with it. For braun to come out scot-free in this I would assume that the ‘B’ sample would have to 1) be taken at the same time (part of the original sample) and 2) return a negative test result.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
I can't claim much of any degree of knowledge about drug tests.
I agree on the B sample curiosity. To me it sounds like, “I came back positive? No way test me right now I’m totally clean a month after all baseball ended!”
Still not a werewolf.
That's my problem with the appeal.
Unless there’s a second portion of the original sample that they can re-test, I will never believe he’s innocent and I don’t see how he could PROVE innocence without the second portion (B sample).
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
I really hope somehow he's actually innocent,
because with all this posturing, we can add pathetic to cheater if he’s not.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
I'm worried that even if he is innocent, it's somewhat meaningless now
The pot’s been stirred again and baseball looks tainted, regardless
Still not a werewolf.
I certainly hope that they figure it out either way.
But yeah, this could follow him even if he’s innocent. Albert never really shook off the early reports that he was in the Mitchell Report.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 11, 2011 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
Former Secretary of Labor Ray Donovan said after being acquitted of larceny and various charges in 1987:
“Which office do I go to get my reputation back?”
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 11, 2011 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
It depends among what population.
Casual fans aren’t paying attention to baseball right now, and hardcore fans would probably more or less accept that he’s innocent if the evidence is really there (I don’t see how it could be, but I’ll wait and see). Sure, rumors might dog him in certain circles, but I imagine they’d be too be pervasive.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
Fans of other teams love to call Pujols a roider with no evidence at all.
If Braun failed a test, even if it is conclusively proven to be a false positive, I don’t see him shaking that any time soon.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 11, 2011 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
I would add: not very fucking bright, to that list.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 11, 2011 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
I'm considering submitting a script to a Hollywood studio entitled "100 Days of Chaos"
Plot elements:
Team wakes up 8/30 10.5 games out of division lead and 9.5 games out of Wild Card berth. Furthermore, per Accuscore, team has 0.2% chance of merely making the playoffs, much less winning the World Series.
25 Days Later: Team breaks two game losing streak by defeating archrival 2-1 while scoring the tying run with two outs on a bases loaded walk and the winning run on a wild pitch but still trail by two games with four to play in the wild card race.
4 Days Later. Clinch wild card berth with a combination of an 8-0 complete game shutout by staff ace and a 4-3 loss by rival in 13 innings after blowing a 3-2 lead with two outs in ninth inning.
9 days later: Staff ace hurls complete game 1-0 shutout on the road against league’s winningest team capping a comeback from a two games to one deficit in the best of five series.
20 days later: Team prevails 10-9 in 11 innings by virtue of a walk off home run by a hometown player to send World Series to Game 7 despite being down to their final strike in two different innings.
1 day later. Team wins 11th World Series championship 6-2 behind staff ace who was able to pitch only due to a fortuitous rainout out two days earlier.
3 days later: Third all-time winningest and iconic manager retires and begins working on Hall of Fame speech.
38 days later: Iconic first baseman leaves team by agreeing to lucrative contract with another team and in the process 1) doing what most other people in his situation would have done and/or 2)proving himself to be just another hypocritical, greedy athlete.
What do you think ?
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 11, 2011 1:40 AM EST reply actions
Too unrealistic.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
Needs a car chase
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 11, 2011 1:44 AM EST up reply actions
you forgot the cuddly squirrel
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 11, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
So is there any doubt that "Art the Dart" wasn't actually Arte Moreno?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Skimmed BCB's post on Braun
Wow. Their commenters were dicks to the cards fans who actively tried not to be jerks (or to point out that one troll did not speak for VEB).
One of the things that keeps me here is that the blog is not mean spirited at all. I don’t like posting on TST or StlGametime a lot because some of the fans are dicks.
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
I've seen commenters here light into other team's fans
Who come to visit at an inopportune time. Let’s not get on a high horse.
I don’t think it says anything about BCB particularly.
Rather, I think it shows why it’s a terrible idea to go to another team’s blog as a cardinal fan at sensitive times. I see far too often posters who go over for more or less friendly purposes who say the wrong thing and get attacked. If you are sincerely sympathetic, leave them alone. The likelihood your comments will be soothing rather than irritating (and if you are in fact sympathetic, you want the former) is small.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 11, 2011 2:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
we usually kiss their asses, though
unless they come in shooting. If they get lit up, they usually deserve it.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
yeah, I don't remember the last time somebody came in waving a white flag
and we shot them for doing it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 11, 2011 2:47 AM EST up reply actions
The terms of the contract have yet to be ratified by the Players Association; however a series of milestone incentives along with the personal service element potentially brings its value to $280 million.
I'm waiting for David Stern to veto it
Still not a werewolf.
by clank on Dec 11, 2011 2:05 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Dan Gilbert is furiously typing another email right now
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
Every time I read "It was about the way he made me feel"
I get Michael Jackson stuck in my head
Still not a werewolf.
its about the commitment that the money buys
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 11, 2011 2:12 AM EST up reply actions
Pujols wept after hearing the team’s initial offer to retain him for five years and eventually demanded to patch into teleconferences to hear for himself what DeWitt and Mozeliak had to say.
“I felt I wanted to hear from the Cardinals,” said Pujols, who became an active participant during the calls. “I don’t want to hear from Danny. It’s not that I didn’t trust him. I wanted to have a conversation that was really honest. They tried to make their best offer. We didn’t come up with an agreement.”
Why is the initial offer such a sticking point?
Lowballing in initial offers is commonplace. It is where you end up that is important.
I have been involved in negotiating contracts and settlements (non-baseball) for 25 years and I have yet to have someone refuse to take a generous and reasonable final offer because they were offended by the first offer. I guess I just don’t understand athletes.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
it's sad because it sounds like he really wanted to stay
but he deluded himself so much into thinking that contract negotiations were personal
who knows if he even wanted to stay that much though
strauss wrote it from that perspective but its just as likely he didn’t give a shit about where he played, he just was going to take the most dollars he could get
first world problems, amirite?
(sorry)
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 2:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
basically
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 11, 2011 2:31 AM EST up reply actions
This was a post mortem
And it was set up to find out what the Cardinals could have done differently. 9/196 wasn’t enough, nor was 26 AAV for 5, nor was 10/210. That’s all that matters.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 11, 2011 2:25 AM EST up reply actions
Bert doesn't know that, he has never been a FA.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
isnt that what you hire an agent for?
to tell you how this shit works?
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 11, 2011 2:15 AM EST up reply actions
Kinda
But if Albert is offended by a lowball offer, do you really think Lozano is going to correct him? Or do you think he would let him believe that the team offering the most money is the one that respects him?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 11, 2011 2:19 AM EST up reply actions
respect
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Again I don't get that.
It is just plain bad negotiating to start out at the high end. It isn’t about respect it’s about business. Both sides are trying to get to a compromise. Starting out high is not negotiating it’s capitulation and it’s very bad business,
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
I really hope that the Cards weren't betting that no one would offer Pujols the mega deal he wanted
On some level it makes sense that no one would logically offer 10/250+, but if the FO was basically building their whole negotiating strategy around the idea that the only way to bring sense to Pujols’ demands for a mega-deal was to show him that the market didn’t value him that highly, and that eventually he would come back to the Cardinals humbled by not getting what he thought he was worth, then that strategy completely backfired.
they offered him 26 aav for 5 years iircr
i fully understand they didn’t want to make that gamble over 10
one can make the argument pujols and lozano knew the money they wanted and knew we couldn’t pay it but just strung us along to extort more money from someone else and as plan b
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
and cost us the ability to bid on Jose Reyes, in the process.
"Our son Dick was sitting in his high chair, and I looked at that money, and I knew I could never look my son in the face again, if I took that money" (to leave the Cardinals) -Stan Musial
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
thank gob for that
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
This is one thing that really bugs me
Why is purely up to the Cardinals to show “respect” and deference? Pujols turned down a 9 year offer for 200 million before the 2011 season; clearly he was all business, not dewy-eyed sentimentalism.
So Pujols wanted to have it both ways: he wanted to be able to play hardball and get the biggest contract he could, but the Cardinals weren’t allowed to play it the same way. If the connection between him and the team was so important to him that he cried after the 5 -year offer, why the hell didn’t he accept the 9-year one?
The more I hear from him the more I am disgusted with him. He can’t play the “its about winning” card anymore, so suddenly he’s trying to make the Cardinals the bad guy.
I’m done caring about Pujols at all.
when Renteria left
because Boston offered a million or more than we did, he said nearly the same thing, “all about winning.” Harumph. The years Edgar was a Cardinal (‘99-’04) St Louis was one of the top three or four winningest teams in baseball.
He felt disrespected and short-changed, so he left. But it wasn’t really about the money, it was all about wining. Right.
Since then he has been with five different teams and is now an FA, unlikely to land anywhere.
azru has tomorrow's thread up
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 11, 2011 2:16 AM EST reply actions
For those not following Neyer, he just retweeted an excellent link about the Braun situation
(in regards to testing for steroids)
Still not a werewolf.

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