what's wrong with jimmy rollins?
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 3:57 AM EST
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Printas we recover from the traumatic week of endless rumors and tweets, ending in albert pujols taking his talents to long beach (or thereabouts), we are slowly gathering ourselves for the next step, trying to figure out where we go from here.
unfortunately, the next-best-thing on the market was already gone. jose reyes is going to be a marlin. tiptoeing down the list of the next big free agents, jimmy rollins's name comes up shortly thereafter.
now, rollins resonates with me as kind of a quintessentially unappealing player to a sabr-type. overrated for a long time, received an undeserved mvp, aging middle infielder due for a collapse.and all of that is true. the most concerning statistic about jimmy rollins is 33: his age.
still, the market hasn't really coalesced around him yet. the phillies are probably most likely to re-sign him, partially because he's a familiar hometown hero and partially because ruben amaro has not yet grasped the whole aging curve business. (he's due for a fairly brutal crash course, soonish.)
however, if the phillies find another option, and rollins seems less adamant about 4-5 years, should we be interested in him at, say, three years? probably not, but he's a more interesting case than you might think.
first: the guy is starting to take walks. after going eight seasons without putting up an 8 percent walk rate, he's put up a 9 percent or better walk rate in three of the last four seasons. that's interesting. if he can maintain a decent walk rate, that's a skill that is less likely to decline as he ages.
second: it's not at all clear what is happening to his hitting. he's walking a lot more, so you'd think he'd have a soaring obp, right? nope. as his walk rate has risen, his batting average and babip have tanked enormously. his babips over the last four seasons are .290, .251, .246, and .275, which are completely abnormal.
and his sudden contact difficulties don't seem to relate to changing quality in contact: he's had line drive rates of 20, 1917, and 24 percent over the last 4 seasons.
while he had a down year defensively in 2011 (3.1 uzr/150), his defensive stats have been generally above average to very good.
the one thing that seems not-mysterious is the decline of his power. rollins' iso is not going to see the good side of .200 again. it would be nice if it saw the good side of .150. don't hold your breath for 25 hr from him.
anyway, i present his case as a mystery more than one to which i have an answer. why does a guy who seems to be making solid contact and walking more have such a terrible history over the last four season with batted balls? he seems like he should be hitting much better. even with the loss of power, the boost in walks should make him a reasonable on-base force. with generally good defense at short, he should be more than the 2-3 win shortstop we see before us.
i am perplexed. there is certainly a real, if counterintuitive, chance that he is suffering from a phenomenally bad 4-season long stretch of terrible luck.
i don't really know what do do with rollins's strange recent history. it does make me feel like he could be a semi-reasonable option if the market for furcal gets out of hand, he steps back from his demands, and no good trade propsects are on the horizon. still, i hate the idea of taking on a shortstop for his age 33, 34, and 35 seasons. on the other hand, a furcal contract would be for his age 34 (and likely 35) season(s). all these contingencies are unlikely to occur, and i certainly agree there is nothing interesting enough to justify a 4-5 year contract, or one at a high aav.
* * *
this year, listen to a beautiful christmas carol for people with social anxiety: "river," by joni mitchell.
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I would say it is his age
He’s lost some strength and speed. His fly balls aren’t carrying like they did for a while, and he can’t beat out as many grounders. His LD% also seems to show a downward trend.
I think Greene is the best course. He has power, walks a decent amount, and has a lot of speed. His average will come around if he gets enough playing time, IMHO.
I would rather trade for Henley and sign Fielder.
by RedAllOver on Dec 10, 2011 6:17 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Right on
Exactly my thought. Maybe Lohse for Ramirez.
Ozzie is the greatest SS ever!
by Cardslifer on Dec 10, 2011 8:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
good luck with that..
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 8:08 AM EST up reply actions
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 10:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
don't you think we should get more from the marlins
i dont think that’s a fair trade for the cardinals, Cardslifer
by prophetjohn on Dec 10, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
The Sad Cafe gets him every time
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 10, 2011 9:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I prefer walsh to henley or frye
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Henleys haven't been in style since 1973.
"Son, what kind of pitch would you like to miss?"
-The Diz
by The Classical on Dec 10, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
This was meant as a joke...
but if we’re being honest, then I should say that I own a very extensive collection of loon pants.
"Son, what kind of pitch would you like to miss?"
-The Diz
by The Classical on Dec 10, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
They say The Mang's goin' away
That he’s movin’ to L.A.
There’s not a Redbird fan around
Who isn’t really feelin’ down
Might take a freight, may catch a plane
To find the sunshine, leave the rain
Lozano said “don’t waste your time,
A quarter-billion’s on the line”
Some gotta win, some gotta lose
Peppermartin’s got the blues
Peppermartin’s got the blues
You know my heart keeps tellin’ me
Albert’s closer to thirty-three
And won’t be but a few years yet
This deal Moreno will regret
Got my hooch to ease the pain
Can’t find a thing to stop the rain
I guess I’ll have to live it down
‘Cause Albert Pujol’s leaving town
Some gotta win, some gotta lose
Peppermartin’s got the blues
Peppermartin’s got the blues
Peppermartin’s got the bluuuuuuues, got the blues
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 7:57 AM EST reply actions 10 recs
Assuming Greene gets the full-time SS gig..
How many games should the Cardinals wait until the team pulls the plug if he’s not performing? Since everyone says he hasn’t been given a fair shot, what sort of opportunity are you willing to give to him? Not being snarky, just curious.
Also, wanted to add that during a radio interview I heard yesterday, Jeff Luhnow stated that he expects Shelby Miller to debut at some point during the season (not surprising), but he also said that he thinks Oscar Tavares will be in the big leagues by age 21 and be a future all-star. He added that it’ll be interesting the first time he calls Mo to discuss a trade…you know he’s gotta have dozens of players already in mind. Houston doesn’t have much to offer, though.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 8:02 AM EST reply actions
heh.
Lunhow to Mo: “Come on, Mo, help a brother out.”
Mo: “Hey, brother, I never said this job was easy.”
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 8:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If the Cards and Astros did hook up in trade talks...a couple interesting names:
Bud Norris, SP – he’ll be 27 at the start of the season – 176 K’s in 186 innings. Still cheap, requires Westbrook to be traded. Seems like the Cardinals can force the issue by telling Westy he’s gonna get moved to the bullpen. I imagine he waives that NTC pretty quickly considering he’s up for free agency again after the season.
Matt Downs, 2B – He’ll be 28 at the start of the season. Hit 10 HR’s in 199 AB’s and put up a line of .276/.347/.518 in 2011. He can either start at 2B or replace Skip Schumaker in the super-sub role. He has experience playing all over the IF and the corner OF spots. Makes league minimum or at least close to it.
Sergio Escalona, LRP – Enters the season at age 27. Don’t know much about him but he handled lefties pretty well last season.
Looking over Houstons roster, these are the only 3 that appealed to me and could help fill out the team.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
so roughly 35 games?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
The answer to that question is dependent on on who else we have at SS
If we have Punto, we can probably yank him earlier. Without Punto, who do we have that projects to play every day? I think this is why we need to sign Furcal so that Greene can be a backup, get 200-300 at-bats at ss/3b and then we decide next year whether he is the real deal or not.
With TLR and Pujols gone, the Cards should re-think Brendan Ryan. Perhaps we could get him back for a couple of right hand relievers.
I’d give Furcal a big Berkman like one year contract if he would take it. Furcal may go for it in he hope that he can get his stats back to normal and play injury-free and then sign a big contract next year.
Just win
We probably HAVE to sign Punto, or some other SS-capable backup
if not, next in line is either Donovan Solano or Pete Kozma, both of whom would totally suck as major league options.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 10, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
If Punto is cheap and agrees to a 1 year contract I support this, would like to see Furc or maybe Boog
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
I think the Braves are also on Punto
I really like his D but his bat is no where going to be as good next year
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
why do you presume that?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Bill James is projecting a dip in offense across the board
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
He had a 31% LD rate last year
Good for tops in the majors vs 15% in 2010.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
NL pitchers will figure out
what allowed AL pitchers to get him out for years and then he’s Aaron Miles.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Except instead of being a black hole at any position,
Punto can actually play defense.
Let’s remember that even if his bat is crappy, Punto still has value. Miles had a goatee and infuriating smile and that’s about it.
Makin' toast!
DING
Butterin' toast!
if he's a back-up, then the bat doesn't come into play that much
And he could just be the stop-gap between Greene sucking and a trade anyway.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Definitely agree with this
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
I agree.
But his walk rate has been consistently good. He is a nice bench player with his plus-plus defense alone. He’ll also still likely have a higher OBP than a Schumaker or Theriot type.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I really don't see Boog as an option.
We might have to give Seattle more in return than just Cleto. They don’t have to turn loose of him as much as we would need him.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Wasn't seriously talking trade, just sort of dreaming with the idea Pujols and TLR gone
Carp may give him luggage, but he still loved having Boog’s glove behind him…as did the rest of the pitching staff
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
let's just get counsell and call it
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I quite like Counsell but he's even older than Punto (IIRC) and no better with the bat.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 10, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
i was kidding, the guy is 41
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
solano got taken in the rule 5 draft.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 1:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
nevermind. it was domnit bolivar.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 2:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The answer is dependent on how well the
team is playing overall. A good April, even with an underperforming Greene, gives Matheny leeway to leave the kid in to see if he can pull it together. If we’re losing a lot of games the whole calculus changes.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with this.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I would rather let him just play
As long as he is above average with the glove
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I think the one thing I'm most-excited for in the upcoming season is finding out f he truly can make it at the Major League-level
I honestly think he will.
Manchester City: 38 points, 12-0-2, 1st in EPL, +35 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 3 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 10, 2011 3:17 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I say 2 games
that seems fair. And if he doesn’t work out in two games, we re-sign Theriot and call up Kozma. Go with a three-headed monster at SS. And if that doesn’t work, maybe we can convert Jay.
by The Gottfather on Dec 10, 2011 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
Until the trade deadline.
I think you give him as much time to win the job as you gave Theriot to lose it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Well,
I’d prefer they not keep doing stupid things.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Greene is going to have to be abysmal with the bat
to be worse than Theriot on defense.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Just because we let it ride with Theriot doesn't mean we should always
give every underperforming player the same amount of time to prove himself. If he’s not producing then you have to pull the plug. 35 games is pretty reasonable.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, Theriot sucked last year and defense probably cost us some games even though "we were in 1st place when he was SS"
Sucking lasted way longer than I want to experience again
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
If Jason Motte is pitching like Ryan Franklin next season, I don’t want to keep trotting him out there.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Theriot may have been Mozeliak's move,
But TLR was the one writing his name on the lineup card day in and day out. If I’m not mistaken, moving Skip to 2B was also a Mozeliak move.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
thing is
Ryan Theriot’s 1st 35 games in 2011: .285/.340/.321, 35 games is not necessarily enough time.
Bursting into song.
Thats still pretty bad and his glove was even worse.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
That's above average offensive production at shortstop
which is very difficult to come by. It actually made him a valuable player in spite of his defense. Of course, it was unsustainable over the long haul. Which is why 35 games is not enough to truly gauge a player.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
But the offensive help he gave for the most part was zero'd out by his atrocious defense, probably even went negative
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
It wasn't at all zeroed out by his atrocious defense.
I believe he was something over a 1.0-WAR player six weeks into the season. That level of offensive production is quite good for a shortstop. Because it’s so rare for the position, he was still very comfortably a net positive at the position even with his horrible defense.
I want to be clear. Ozzie Smith is my favorite player of all-time. I believe in defense at shortstop. That’s one reason why I couldn’t stand Theriot at shortstop. But that doesn’t change the valuation. Defense is about one-third of a player’s value. If a player has offensive numbers that much above average for his position, he is going to be a net plus regardless of how bad his defense is.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
But his negative defense hurt our GB philosophy pitching staff and led to lost games
I assume the WAR takes this into account but does it discount watching us being competitive with a lead, then errors, then we wind up losing lead, a error he committed may not have caused a run with that play, but led to runs, either giving us the loss, immediately or causing game momentum to shift that led losing the game. Effects like made error, should have been out of inning leading to pitcher throwing more pitches, weakening, not going as many innings, bullpen get’s overworked/was weak anyway, they give up runs, that might have been avoided if play was made
I know I’m not doing a very good job of making this point, but his errors may have had a un-measurable effect on the outcome of the game
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
What UZR does and WAR does is to put a player's contribution into the greater context of a season.
It is easy for fans to say that a player’s error cost us the game. The problem is that this is hardly ever true. A game consists of 27 outs on defense and 27 outs on offense. A single play hardly ever costs a team a game because there were so many other opportunities to make a difference in the game’s outcome.
I want to reiterate that I believe in defense-first at shortstop. Especially with a pitch-to-contact staff that attempts to induce grounders. That’s why I couldn’t stand Theriot as the everyday shortstop. But, that doesn’t change what I know in mind, that early in the season he was very much a net plus for the Cardinals.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I understand this logic, but during the season when he did make errors, or not make plays that a better SS could have
Didn’t it feel like he was hurting us more than the numbers reflect post season? And do the season numbers break out his value in games at SS vs games at 2ND? Perhaps his 2B defense pumped up his horrible SS defense?
I don’t know how/where to find this
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed, but Greene
has never been given a solid 35-game long chunk of PT in the majors.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Depends what you mean by sucking, as well
as long as he’s replacement level or a bit above, I’d continue rolling with him. If he’s a Theriot-esque vacuum of suck, though, maybe consider limiting his PT after 30-odd games, as you say.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 10, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
This is exactly what I told my wife earlier
Wasn’t the Riot like last in NL or MLB in SS defense last year?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
IIRC there was one shortstop with a worse UZR (pro-rata) with 200-odd PAs last year
can’t recall who it was, but yeah, Theriot was basically as bad defensively as anyone in the majors.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 10, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
It's apples to oranges, though.
Theriot had a track record of decline. In the season prior to coming to St. Louis, two organizations moved him off of shortstop. We never should have started him there in the first place. After having done so, he should have had a shorter leash. If this failed shortstop got four months at shortstop to prove himself a failure all over again, an up-and-comer who has never truly gotten a legitimate shot should arguably get more time to prove himself.
Tyler Greene was a tour de force in Memphis last season and has “disappointed” in St. Louis. Even while failing to prove himself (whatever that means), Greene had better offensive numbers than Theriot and Schumaker in 2011. So why wouldn’t we give him an extended period of time so that we can see once and for all what he can do at the MLB level. This is baseball. Six weeks is such a tiny amount of time.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
you are using Theriot Logic though
Just because Theriot got 2 months longer of a shot than he deserved doesn’t mean everyone should.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
No I'm not.
I’m saying that is true across the board of every MLB players that 35 games is not an adequate amount of time upon which to judge a player’s true talent—whether it’s Holliday, Rasmus, Theriot, Schumaker, or Greene. More time is needed.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
35 games was just a random number...
2 months…whatever…but no way he should get 4 months if he’s not producing. That is absolutely the definition of insanity.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
If he has a wRC+ of 90, which he did last season in limited playing time,
then I’m absolutely going to play him. That is decent production for the position. And it has the possibility of getting much, much better.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Also...its not like he's never played a big league game.
He’s played 150 games and has 316 AB’s and is 28 years old. His leash is shorter than what you’d give a 23 year old rookie.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
He has the equivalent of two-thirds of a season's PAs spread out over three seasons.
I disagree with you about his leash being shorter than a 23 year-old rookie over the first four months of the season. I agree with you that his leash is shorter than a 23 year-old rookie which is why I’d only give him four months.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
4 months just seems like a long time.
Can we compromise at 3 months? heheh
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe, if there is a trade to be made.
I don’t see much of an upgrade with Punto (assuming he is the backup). So why not let Greene play? Realistically, he isn’t going to be replaced everyday until the trade deadline anyway.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think what we did with Theriot is totally irrelevant,
but I agree that Greene should get an extended look. I hope we re-sign Furcal, give Greene a long look at 2nd, and re-sign Punto as a back-up.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
What I'm saying is that the reason Theriot got this long is because it takes at least this long to see what you truly have in a player.
It actually probably takes longer. For some reason, the Cardinals apparently chose to ignore Theriot’s 2010 for whatever reason. At any rate, I’d give Greene until the trade deadline. If he proves adequate, then I have a good, cheap shortstop. If he proves horrible, I have Punto as Plan B and can attempt to make a trade. If Furcal’s demands are too high, this is the approach to shortstop that I’d take.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I would take a cheap Punto even if we sign Furc and let T Green get time at 2B/SS
Punto is useful along w/ Greene if we have Injuries in MIF
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
is there anyone that doesn't want Punto back?
This seems like such an obvious move. Make it happen, Mo!
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
It is a no brainer, why isn't it done already?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Because we had to select a new manager and then attempt to re-sign Pujols.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm talking Post TLR retirement/Albert defection
how difficult can his contract negotiation be? It’s not like we are strapped now
Mo: Shredder you want to shred with us next year?
Shredder: On on my way, what kind of shirt you wearing?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
he should shred that scarf
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 10, 2011 1:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
heh
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
i like the scarf
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
It's an absolute no-brainer
Punto has been horribly under-valued his entire career, and even if he’s only healthy enough to replicate the PT he had last year, he’s a good option for us.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 10, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
IF
Tyler Greene’s stats 2 months into the season look like his current career stats…we should probably start considering other options.
I expect Greene to do well, but if he doesn’t, I am not willing to give him 4 months just because dumbass LaRussa gave Theriot 4 months.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
My problem with Jimmy Rollins?
My buddy was with his kid in a elevator than in comes Jimmy Rollins. He asks him for an autograph and Mr. Rollins said he would “catch him later.”
I feel the whole pujols saga can be equated to the moments right after a bomb went off
All the cardinal fans are stumbling around disoriented with that humming in their ears…
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
The good news is that we've got a lot of experience stumbling around disoriented
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought we got rid of Theriot and Patterson?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I was meaning more of the alcohol-influenced variety of stumbling around disoriented
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
The thing is, we're not disoriented
Our lineup is set right now, including first base. We just want to improve a couple of spots.
"hangover"
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 10, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I feel no shame in admitting that Joni Mitchell is very, very boss
how do you not put Blue in the Top 100, actually probably Top 50, albums of all time.
/obligatory OF ALL TIME!
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
I like all three mid '70s albums
Hejira, Hissing of Summer Lawns, and Don Juan’s Reckless Daughter, featuring Jaco Pastorius on bass.
Blue is one of my top 10 albums
and Joni is my all-time fave female singer.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 10, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Whilst I remain kinda unexcited about Rollins
the following quote from yesterdays post gives me great pre-christmas cheer:
In the article Mozeliak expresses a preference for using free agency to address the Cardinals’ needs. Specifically, according to Goold, the Cardinals have “explored the market” for free agent outfielder Carlos Beltran as an option in center field, “engaged in conversations” with free agent shortstop Rafael Furcal, and has interest in bringing back Nick “The Shredder” Punto as a veteran bench player and potential Tyler Greene insurance policy at shortstop (presumably if it fails to sign Furcal). Also on Mozeliak’s radar are lefty-handed relievers Mike Gonzalez and J.C. Romero.
Those guys (with the exception of Romero, who is also a good idea) are exactly the free agents I hoped we’d be chasing. I really believe Mo is on the right track.
Still bitching to contact.
thing is
Moz does not follow VEB’s advice in 2011: Cardinals win the World Series
Moz follows VEB’s advice in 2012: Cardinals finish 0-162?
Bursting into song.
by Aranathor on Dec 10, 2011 9:38 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
agreed
If Beltran, Furcal, and Punto are the only “major” signings we make this off-season, I think it will be a successful off-season. If Mo can get Beltran and Furcal on short term deals, who even cares if we overpay a little bit at this point.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
i suspect tht there is some talk about replacing albert with
someone with substantial name recognition. this is why i sort of fear a jro signing
need a name to draw fans’ attention
should have been jrey, but, oh well
TLR is gone, long live the king
If TLR were still here I might agree with you.
But what better time to adopt a truly different approach than now? I don’t know what Matheny and Moz talk about in private, but I’m pretty sure Mike isn’t pounding the table insisting on “veteran presence.”
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 10, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
sure hope not
it seems to me we have enough veteraniness with current lineup, but
its less w/o albert
but i agree that furcal does it as well as jro
and should be for a better combo of dollars and time
TLR is gone, long live the king
I think we've got enough stars to draw a good crowd
Berkman, Holliday, Freese has become a nationally-known name now, and we’ve got two Cy-Young quality pitchers in Carp and Adam. And a WS title. I think/hope Mo is smart enough not to try to sign a “name” just to appease the fans.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 10, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I for one do not need to be appeased with a gamble on a "name"
Furc, Punto, maybe a lefty would be enough for me. Perhaps Beltran if they really feel the need for spending cash…but save it for future FA years
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
at least we're actually serious now that albert's gone
and not our standard scaredy-cat approach to free agents.
THEY DID IT FOR TORTY! 2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
twitter
it'll still be a scaredy-cat approach.
Mo isn’t going to be winning any bidding wars anytime soon The guys are going to want to play here.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
have to want to play here*
I think Furcal and Beltran, at this point in their careers will prefer playing for a contender over lesser teams. I can see them both taking a few million less to play here ala Berkman.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
non-factor i'd guess
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree.
I think we have the payroll flexibility to be top bidder on a couple of those guys if we want them, particularly on a short-term deal. That said, I think Furcal wants to be here probably. And I doubt Beltran will go to a non-contender.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
If Beltran has half an eye on the HOF he really needs to move to a contender.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 10, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I'd consider overpaying a bit for Beltran if it came to that.
He matches the Cardinals’ needs almost perfectly to play RF every day while Craig is out, and then play some CF/RF when he returns. Only needs a two year deal probably, and if Berkman leaves next year he continues to be a great fit for the team in RF/CF as Craig can shift to 1B if Matt Adams can’t step in.
More importantly, the Cardinals are about a 90 win team right now. This is exactly the point where marginal wins are most valuable. Signing Beltran gives the team another 3.5 wins or so, give or take. Adding a guy like that to the current roster puts them at a projected 93-94 wins which would be nearly a lock for the playoffs. Really, it wouldn’t be overpaying at all, since the team’s subjective valuation of Beltran is higher. It’s only overpaying compared to the market price.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think a 2 year/$20 - $24M contract for Beltran would be perfect
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, that'd be well worth it if we could get it.
But I think it might take closer to 2/$25-30M if other teams are in it. I also think it might be worth it to overpay like that. I’d definitely still do it at 2/$26-28M
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I'd look to at other options too
But if push came to shove I think I’d do it.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Not a lot of teams seem to be on him
But Lozano is a bastard
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
wouldn't even necessarily be an overpay
i could see him giving us 6-7 WAR over 2 years if he stays healthy
True
I’m trying not to get too excited about him though.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
oh look, when we're not blinded by TRL's influence and Pujols's halo shine
Mo actually looks quite competent from where i’m sitting
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Not having Tony Ra Lussa will be quite pleasant.
My hairline thanks him for retiring.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
But will Mike Matheny look as dashing wearing sunglasses at night?
"I have discovered, in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats." - Bill Veeck
This...
and Pujols’s halo shine
I think Pujols couldn’t pass up being a real life Angel and having a halo on his uni ???
He said he was going to let God decide…what do you bet he took that as a sign?
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
apu was pissed, personally, at bdw
and his “valuation” of what albert would be “worth”
so he left a lot to thumb his nose at bdw
TLR is gone, long live the king
Check out the winter meet-up discussion if you're in St Louis and want to get together.
Link in my sig.
Also, sign Prince Fielder. Why? Because I like him.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
how about you and Prince go out to dinner when he's in town
but let’s just not quite sign him yet
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I would totally accept that, and put up a fanpost about the experience.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
I wonder if he eats bivalves
or if he’s a true vegeterian
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
1917%?!
That’s unpossible!
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Dec 10, 2011 9:51 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Tom has access to proprietary metrics used by Ruben Amaro.
This is second only to Ryan Howard’s 2,148% ranking as a “run creator.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 10, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I blame Ruben Amaro for losing Pujols
If Howard never got that horrible extension I truly believe Pujols would still be a Cardinal
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Blame John Hart and Brian Cashman.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I agree that the Howard contract helped to artificially drive up Pujols's value.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I blame Kendry Morales for breaking his leg jumping on home plate...
if that dude had excelled they wouldn’t have had a spot for Pujols.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
If the Angels still offer ~$40m more than the Cards offer
he’s still going to Anaheim. I don’t think it made much difference, in the end.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 10, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
If for the last few years Morales was putting up his 09 numbers or better
this may have been different.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Not really the scrap heap,
but I’m going to predict Marco Scutaro.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Scutaro of the .343 wOBA last season?
Where to I sign up?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
either Florida or Arizona...
(where Boston has their Spring Training)…oh and bring some young guys who you don’t really want to part with.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Some crappy left-handed reliever I guess
Think we could see another Rich Hill/Ian Snell-type minor league dumpster dive as well.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 10, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
I think they'll actually get a lefty reliever in free agency.
If it turns out to be Romero, they’ll be dumpster diving by late March. Sherrill and Gonzalez seem like pretty real possibities though.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Totally bemused that Romero has made 664 appearances over 12 years
with a K/BB ratio not much over 1. Seems very odd.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 10, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Romero hass been around longer than I remembered
Also, people remember him for kind of sucking recently, but he had a string of great stuff. Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake…
Reading this made me both excited and disgusted at the same time
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
i wouldn't be posting on VEB today
if it wasn’t for Manny Ramirez. He was so awesome.
Bursting into song.
wait, when did THAT happen?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
i wonder how much he's offering himself for
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Alright fellas
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
link broke
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Try try again
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
that was very funny, I might go ahead and watch it again
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
If Manny signed a 10-year deal at 32, he’d have 2 years left on it now.
A little perspective on the Pujols contract with LAA. Manny was 32 entering the 2004 season. He had been in Boston for three years, and had posted an OPS north of 1.000 for five years straight. His OPS the next three years was 1.010, .982, and 1.058. He then dropped to .881 in 2007, though he did help the Sox win their second World Series.
After a slow start to 2008, he was traded to the Dodgers, where he flourished, finishing with an OPS of 1.031. He was suspended in 2009, but still managed a .949 OPS for the year, and split 2010 between LA and the White Sox, where his numbers took a nose-dive. He was then terrible in five games last year before “retiring” amidst yet another steroid scandal.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Pujols and Manny will not have equivalent trajectories...
First, Manny pretty clearly took the Barry Bonds path to age-defying performance — and that’s being tested for now. So it won’t happen again.
Second, raise your hand if you really think Pujols is 32. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? I’m not much of a conspiracy theorist, but this one seems fairly obvious.
Pujols has a couple more seriously good years in him, but the entire second half of that contract is going to be a disaster for the halos.
I will certainly agree with your first point
no way Manny can be used to give perspective on how Pujols will decline as he ages.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
I don't think Albert is really 32.
He’s 31 until mid-January.
VEB WINTER MEET-UP DISCUSSION
SIGN PRINCE FIELDER
by a fink on Dec 10, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
/Raises hand.
Pujols is 32. This Pujols birther stuff is ridiculous. Not a shred of evidence has been produced to the contrary. This fact tends to make me believe it’s fairly obvious that he is 32. If he weren’t, wouldn’t there be some document somewhere to support the claim?
I don’t necessarily agree that Pujols won’t follow the Ramirez aging trajectory. Both are well known to have very good offseason workout regimens and to be batting cage rats. They also both have a preternatural ability to recall pitch sequences and plate appearances against specific pitchers. I think theirs could be similar declines.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I bet Manny works on his swing in the offseason
his wife can attest to that
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
ahem
http://www.thenewsburner.com/2011/10/14/manny-ramirez-is-a-wife-beater/
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
How did you make those eyes?
And if you use a proxy server is the purpose to hide/project your location elsewhere so you can access content that is blacked out in your area? Or is it to mask your IP address?
also, i get that you were asking for a link
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Birther is a loaded term
meant to demean a plausible question. Questioning the birth of a president who’s birth is well documented and has been fully investigated by the national press is ridiculous. Questioning whether a kid born in the Dominican might alter his age to improve his baseball prospects is not.
Should a document somewhere have surfaced to support the claim? Maybe, maybe not. Sports writers are rarely investigative journalists. Instead of Woodward and Bernstein we get Strauss and Burwell. Moreover, the Dominican Republic is the very definition of a 3rd world country; East St. Louis is the model of governmental efficiency and integrity by comparison. That he could produce a birth certificate with an incorrect date from such a place should surprise exactly no one.
So to suggest that a player with that background and has had his age questioned since high school is hardly ridiculous. He may actually be 31 (until January as referenced above…). Suggesting otherwise is entirely credible, however.
when you use quotes
it should be verbatim. Where, exactly, did i say that?
The thrust of my argument, in response to the above, was that the lack of such a document should not be held out as proof that his age is correct. And that these are my “personal suspicions” suggests this is some theory that originated with me. Google Pujols and Age and see what you get.
1st VEB fight of the day and it's not even noon
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
fine.
Suggesting that he’s older than his documented age is not credible. You provide no basis whatsoever for that suggestion other than:
1. He’s from the DR.
2. Some players from the DR have faked their ages.
3. “he has had his age questioned”
Those things do not add up to “credible position.” And I think I’m entirely fair in imputing to you a demand that Pujols prove that his accusers are wrong, when the reality is that his accusers are the ones who bear the burden of proving that they’re right.
Exactly
I haven’t seen once valid source say he is actually older than he states.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe credible was a poor choice of words.
I should have stuck with plausible. The fundamental point is the guy has always looked substantially older than was stated. This naturally has raised the question as to whether or not his stated age is accurate. Nos. 1 and 2 from your enumeration of my arguments provides some reason to think this may be ‘plausible’.
there are plenty of people that look much older than they are
and they didn’t falsify their birth certificates
that’s unfounded speculation and is just silly and slightly sour grapes-like spiteful
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I knew a kid in Junior high with a full grown beard
I didn’t think he was lieing about his age
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
seriously
when I played little league (or hell this past little league WS) there was a kid with a full, thick mustache….in 6th grade!
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
No, birther is a term meant to marginalize a baseless suspicion.
Did the Cardinals give Pujols a 7-year, $100MM contract without any proof of his age?
Did the Cardinals offer Pujols a 10-year, $210MM contract without any proof of his age?
Did the Marlins offer Pujols a 10-year, $200MM contract without any proof of his age?
Did the Angels offer Pujols a 10-year, $254MM contract without any proof of his age?
Sure, players who were signed as teenagers while living in the Dominican Republic have been proven to have lied about their real age. Pujols is not such a person. His family immigrated to the U.S. from the Dominican Republic when he was in school. It’s an apples to oranges comparison. Just because other Dominicans lied about their age to sign with MLB clubs as teenagers does not mean that Pujols lied about his age upon immigrating to the U.S. and on his U.S. citizenship application.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm always a little surprised...
by the visceral reaction questioning Albert’s age provokes. Was my statement speculative? Certainly. I am the first to admit that it is entirely possible he really will be 32 on opening day. But baseless? I think not. This question has been raised because the man has always looked older than stated and hails from a place where official documentation might best be described as flexible.
I think the Cardinals had little reason to question his age at the time he was signed to his contract extension. At the end of the contract, was he going to be 32? 34? Who cares? It was a tremendous deal for the Cardinals regardless. Now, the question looms much larger, because age is much more likely to play a role in his productivity during the course of the deal. And that is why the question has popped up recently. So did the teams have proof of his age? I have no idea. As stated, I am not certain his age is provable. I think it unlikely, however, the teams really cared. 10 years is a just plain stupid contract length to give to a player entering his age 32 season if the value is seen entirely in terms of on the field productivity. Signing Pujols was as much about marketing as it was expected WAR.
I'M ALWAYS A LITTLE SURPRISED BY YOUR FACE
I mean, it’s a provocative subject, and stirs up emotions.
And to be fair, your initial posture (“fairly obvious” that Pujols is lying about his age) was not exactly the more nuanced stance you’re taking now.
That was pretty funny.
Fair enough. I’m making a more nuanced argument now, though, because now I’m actually making an argument. The initial comment that kicked this off was much more of an off the cuff statement.
I don't know of a business that wouldn't conduct due diligence on a $10K contract
let alone a $100MM contract. The notion what Pujols’s age didn’t matter before his last contract because there is no difference between ages 32 and 34 is simply not true. Everything we know about the aging curve of MLB players tells us that there is quite a bit of difference between ages 32 and 34. In addition, the contract now looks like this great bargain for the Cardinals because it proved to be. At the time, it was the first $100MM contract ever given to a player with so little service time. It was the largest contract in franchise history at that time, too. It was also one of the top 10 largest contracts in MLB history. I suspect the Cardinals performed their due diligence and looked into his age before entering into such a large agreement.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
They signed him...
for less than the Yankees had given a 30 year old Giambi a few years earlier. Was it a lot of money? Absolutely. But Pujols was already being recognized as a once in a generation talent at that point. And to stick with the original story line, he was in his mid-twenties. I’ll stick with my original premise that this was even then seen as a tremendous deal for the Cardinals. Every team in baseball would have made that deal at the time it was made.
Comparing a free agent signing by the Yankees
to a club extending a player who is entering his first of arbitration is comparing apples to firetrucks. Nearly every signing that buys out arbitration years is club-friendly. Look at Evan Longoria, Adam Wainwright, Yadier Molina, Jaime Garcia, et al. Pujols had the fewest years of MLB experience for any player ever given a $100MM contract in the history of baseball. The contract was the third-largest contract in baseball history at that point. It was not seen as a tremendous deal for the Cardinals at the time it was made. This is simply not true.
But, let’s accept your false premise and assume that it was this incredibly team friendly bargain. It was still a seven-year contract worth over $100MM. Any business is going to perform its due diligence on a contract that is that large in size, especially a baseball club for which age and performance are so integral to the deal being a fair one for their business.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
While he was the youngest, this was not the 3rd largest...
in history at that point. That is easily checked if you don’t believe me. That it was club friendly was my premise exactly. I understand he wasn’t a free agent — the Cardinals were trying to keep him from becoming one. And they accomplished it by signing him to a club friendly deal. Score one point, Cardinals.
As for the age issue with the extension, which I didn’t address, check out this on Fangraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/how-do-star-hitters-age/. Is there a decline between 32 and 34 year-olds? Sure. But enough to keep you from signing that deal? No way.
I think, ultimately, we are approaching the age-gate issue from different angles. You are taking a much more absolutist view and are willing to consider only that which can be proven. I’m saying that it’s possible and unlikely to be proven. The world is full of uncertainties.
You're right.
It was the sixth-largest contract in MLB history behind the following players:
A-Rod, $252MM
Jeter, 189MM’
Manny, $160MM
Helton, $141.5MM
Hampton, $121MM
Pujols, $100MM
That is wasn’t top three doesn’t change any of my argument though. The 20/20 hindsight evaluation of Pujols’s contract as this great club-friendly deal from the day it was signed is as baseless as the accusation that Pujols has lied about his age since he was a teenager. The world is full of uncertainties, to be sure, but I don’t see much to be uncertain about regarding Pujols’s age. There is nothing to base uncertainty on in this instance.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm usually surprised by the reaction I get when I pose a ridiculous question too
But then I usually figure out the problem wasn’t the response, it was the question
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Yawn.
Quit acting as though you have no responsibility for the credibility of your statements. The entire idea is a guilt by association fallacy with dominican age-falsifiers from the 1990s.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
you're ignoring the context. players from the DR
Don’t lie about their ages because it’s the national pasttime. They lie about their ages because international scouts pay a 100-fold difference in bonus money between a 16yo and an 18yo.
So, it doesn’t make much sense to assume Albert did the same thing when he WASN’T recruited by international scouts in the DR. He moved to the US and got recruited here. Having created a track record here – and being signed at age 20 – he had none of the incentives of the classic age misrepresentation case.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 3:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I never thought I would see
East St Louis and Model of Government Efficiency in the same sentence — thanks for that
Just win
I love Manny Ramirez.
I love that he got put into his Boston contract that the guy who fed the pitching machine for him in Cleveland would get a raise and be hired by the Red Sox without talking about it with the guy. When the guy found out, he declined because he didn’t want to move to Boston from Cleveland. I loved PAs by Manny Ramirez in his prime. He would foul off tough pitches and prolong at-bats. I love that he would intentionally swing and miss at pitches to bait pitchers into throwing the same pitch later with runners on base. I love that home run he hit against Anaheim when he stood there with his arms out watching it. I loved that catch against the wall he made in Texas when he gave the fan a five and then threw the ball back in. I also loved his NLDS for LA vs. the Cubs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 10, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
plus he makes for some excellent pictures
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I don't
he’s a douche
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Heaven forbid a guy have fun playing a child's game.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Not so much for that stuff
but the spousal abuse, beating up on elderly Red Sox staff, chronic cheating and general disrespectful behavior can get kind of old
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Getting busted for PED's twice
definitely goes in the negative column also.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
He should have to register as an offender and never be allowed around kids again!
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
What if you use PEDs to aid you in breaking the single season home run record
but never test positive?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
better lucky than stupid?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Sure.
Spousal abuse and beating up the Sox traveling secretary was horrible. Far worse than that of a douche. I guess I differentiate off-the-field actions from on-the-field actions. As do most fans. After all, we gave Hornsby and Slaughter statues and remember them on our left field wall.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
good point
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
He was on a short list of my favorite guys to watch hit.
Him, Chipper Jones, Albert, vintage Griffey Jr.
I love that he chose the # 99 on the Dodgers, thinking he could change it later
And then wound up keeping it. Wat? Hilarious. The guy was just absurd and it was a lot of fun to watch him. Remember when he couldn’t find the ball in Fenway because he was basically sitting on it? And then they cut to Theo in the stands rolling his eyes? Special moments.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think he was trying to find it ... that was the deal
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
IIRC he was looking around for it, but had no idea it was underneath him
CFer came all the way over and threw it in for him, since he was still lying on the ground. Classic.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Also, re: Milwaukee
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/francisco-rodriguez-likely-to-accept-arbitration.html
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Ha.
Still bitching to contact.
It won't be so funny when we have to face K-Rod and Axford in the 8th and 9th innings.
However, LOL @ McGehee & Gonzalez on the left side of the IF
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
K-Rod has accepted.
I believe he’ll earn over $13MM. But, Milwaukee has already had multiple trade inquiries. And why wouldn’t they? After the Papelbon contract, they can now get a closer on a 1-year deal.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Plus no draft pick for you Brewers
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
But maybe an okay prospect via trade.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
who's like to need him and what do you suspect they'll offer?
Any thoughts?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Red Sox still need a closer
But they are in a similar situation due to Ortiz accepting arbitration
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
That was the first thing that came to my mind as well, but I couldn't remember if they'd replaced Pap yet
So whose the trade? AA/AAA level guys?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Ortiz accepted arbitration because his market was horrible.
It was a negotiating tactic to try and get Boston to up the dollars in their two-year offer or add a third year. Nonetheless, Boston’s payroll is approaching the luxury tax threshold.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Boston makes the most sense to me.
They might even be willing to give him a multi-year deal.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, he's at 291 saves over 10 years, and had 62 in 2008!
Or am I doing it wrong? He really fell off after that
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I'd say the Street trade between the Rockies and Padres is instructive.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
$7.5MM, I think.
And the Rockies ate something like $1.5MM of it. K-Rod’s price tag could reduce what you’d get in terms of prospects, to be sure, but it sounds like there are multiple teams inquiring which suggests the trade market for K-Rod could be larger, too.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I can't believe mulitple teams want K-Rod at that price
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I can't believe any team is willing to pay what they pay closers.
Yet every offseason I’m shocked by the market for free agent closers. Because of this, I’d believe there is a fairly good-sized trade market for K-Rod.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
why the hell would anyone trade anything for the right to pay k-rod $13M+?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Brewers current lineup.
RF – Hart (I doubt they keep him here)
CF – Morgan
LF – Braun
2B – Weeks
3B – McGehee
1B – Gamel
C – Lucroy
SS – Gonzalez
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 10:44 AM EST reply actions
I can't think of any scenario where that would make much sense
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
This
The track record for japanese import pitchers is not good. This seems like a really poor investment. Much rather have Cespedes if we’re going to throw money at an international guy that’s near ML ready or ML ready.
Something clever...
Small sample size.
Darvish has all of the skills that make pitchers good- power, control, durability, youth. If you don’t want him your either 1. think his price will be too insane 2. aren’t paying attention or 3. are letting your biases color your judgment.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
I don't want him.
I think most Japanese players are far too expensive due to the posting fee. They are also very difficult to project because of the lack of data to base a projection on. Given the cost in dollars and the lack of projectability, I view them as too big a gamble.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The uncertainty means I don't think he'd be worth the $125M you put below
Matsuzaka was every bit as good in Japan, and he INSTANTLY didn’t look anything like an ace—-not just the stats, his stuff absolutely was not good enough to be an ace.
More than anything else (style/talent level adjustment etc) I think the change from 5-6 days rest to 4 days rest is enormous. It’s the same thing with the college guys where 90-95 frequently turns into 88-93, and more than that it’s learning how to still execute breaking pitches when you’re that much more tired.
Not afraid to nitpick
respectfully, isn't the response to a small sample size
To assume the default or the norm? Why would the response to a small sample size be to drop tens of millions of dollars on him?
I guess you’re saying to go off the scouting exclusively, but there really aren’t many cases where teams make that kind of high-dollar investment just based exclusively on scouting (and they usually fuck those judgments up, because scouting on its own is very inexact).
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 3:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's the risk
I don’t think Darvish projects much better than Shelby.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is a lazy way of addressing the Yu Darvish question
We should pick Cespedes over Darvish because he’s Cuban? There are a number of ways that Darvish sets himself apart from the Japanese pack. He’s got a classic big, tall pitcher’s frame and he’s only 25. But even if you don’t like him, evaluate him on his merits, please. Lord knows Cuba has had its share of disappointing players, too. I betcha there’s a little buyer’s remorse on Aroldis Chapman right now.
by purple_haze on Dec 10, 2011 3:34 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Also, I'd be willing to bet that NPB performance means more when it comes to projection than Cuban baseball does
Do we even have access to stats from Cuba?
We don't have a pitcher good enough to block Darvish from the rotation.
Darvish had a K/BB over 10 last year and the Japanese league is supposedly equivalent to AAA in talent level. That makes him a sure ace. The problem is that he is going to be quite expensive. His posting fee will probably be $50-75M, AND we will have to pay him at least as much as CJ Wilson just made. That’s a minimum of 125-150M and a lot of risk. I think they should be looking into it- at $125M he is worth it. At $200 I don’t see a chance in hell he is worth it.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
wait, how can the poor history of NPB players be
A small sample size issue a few posts above, but here the fact that NPB is AAA has become gospel, making darvish a sure ace?
I am totally lost. Do we know enough about how well NPB talent translates or do we not know enough?
Also, has anyone seen Darvish’s birth certificate?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 3:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Honestly it's very disappointing
Like, I knew it was a possibility that this would happen, but I never actually believed that it would. I always believed there was no way that Pujols would not be a Cardinal.
And now it’s extremely sad that we won’t get to see the best player in our generation, and possibly the best player the Cardinals have ever had, play out the rest of his career with the birds on the bat.
It really makes you think about how special it was to watch him play for us for the past decade, every single day.
And I'm not sure when this feeling will go away
When the season starts, and we get to focus on the current team playing? Maybe when we make the playoffs for the first time without him, and show that Cardinals baseball isn’t just about one guy?
I don’t know. Hopefully soon.
No thanks, not interested in Mr. Rollins
It’s my greatest fear right now that Mo might just take some of the Pujols money and sign a guy so far on the down side of his age curve. The idea that he’s ready for a bounce back year after such a long slide – at his age – is just not worth the risk. I don’t mind overpaying for top talent. I do mind overpaying for mediocrity (h/t to Bill Veeck), which is what we’d be doing with Jimmy Rollins.
If Greene scares you, go sign Furcal to a two year deal. It’s not ideal. But it’s a crappy free agent market, and I don’t think any of us want to surrender the kind of prospects it will take to get something better in trade. Furcal will be adequate (no more) and he’ll be a stopgap until we’re in a position to find something better.
"I have discovered, in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats." - Bill Veeck
No Tony,,,,No Larussa...
Lets get nuts…
bring up the kids and throw em in the fire….Taveras, Miller , Cox, Wong whoever…
I need something to distract me from my sads….
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
There's no need to do that.
On paper, the Cardinals are the NL Central favorites. They may even be the NL favorites. It’s funny. The Cards were 15-to-1 to win the World Series on Wednesday. On Thursday afternoon, the Cards were…15-to-1 odds to win the World Series. I haven’t checked to see if the odds are longer today, but I think that speaks to how well Mozeliak positioned the club to withstand Pujols opting to leave for more money.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Your prolly right...
I still would like to see Fielder take up 1B.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Depends on the contract.
I’d rather have, say, Beltran on a two-year deal than Fielder on a six- or seven-year deal. Especially with Fielder’s physique.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I don't think Fielder has that bad a physique...
He is short and stocky..he looks pretty durable. He carries a lot of wieght but he has big bones to hold it…
he truly is just big boned.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
dropping 20-30 lbs will help his agility
i don’t want a multimillion dollar chair at 1b
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
but it would be a really nice chair with a great obp and slg percentage...
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
but we still pitch to contact
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
it'll be less contact though
with Wainwright, Miller, Garcia, and Martinez in the rotation.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
He can still reach the ground but has to stick his leg out to the side
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
John Belushi
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
I'm big-boned. 5'9 245 and I'm not fat.
Prince’s body isn’t going to age well enough to make me want to sign him.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
trust me. his knees are going to start creaking before long.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
dont know about that...
thicker body types can have pretty strong cartelidge to go along with the thickness… he may hold up pretty well.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
at 6 years...
we could do this all over again….
By then Pujols will be gettin 25 mill a year to hit 280 25 dingers etc… in the DH slot and the angels can give prince 25 mill a year to play 1b for them…
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Ok ... if Fielder will take 116 for 8 years
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
prolly not with Boras involved
6 yrs… 120 mill
defer a few per year.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
I was alluding to Pujols first contract
And going along with the then signs with Angels deal
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
nemo problemo, I don't really want Fielder anyway
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
yes, yes he does
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
untucks a lot though
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
He would have to clean up the act to play the Cards Way
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is a solid offer
120-130 I’d be ok with. He doesn’t like it, fuck it. Plenty of other options.
Something clever...
He'd be returning to Milwaukee if this is all it took.
Fielder is likely to “1 up” the Mark Teixeira contract. I’d guess 8 years at 185-200
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think
fielder will surpass Tex. Doesn’t have the same kind of teams pursuing him. But there is usually someone stupid enough to do it.
Something clever...
it'll be in the neighborhood.
no way he gets less than 175…Tex got 180
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
fielder is one of the worst defenders at first base
At age 27! Where is he going to be at 33?
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 3:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Looking again at this Matt Moore contract.
How the hell does Friedman get players to sign these things? I know having a bunch more money right away plus actual a guarantee of future money is great, but… really?
I think there’s some sort of blackmail happening. Andrew Friedman has pictures of EVERYBODY.
Moore was a later round pick
Maybe he was just fed up being dirt poor. And yes, playing in the minors you are dirt poor.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
MLB minimum last year was $414k.
He wasn’t poor anymore.
I can partly understand it, but partly not. He left a LOT of money on the table.
8th round isn't that bad
signed for $100,000ish. But damn, dude wants to make the cash, and now he’ll be making 2-3 mil as a rookie. Makes sense.
Something clever...
Sign Shelby NOW!!!!!!!!!
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I think it makes a lot of sense.
There’s a fair amount of risk going year-to-year, especially for pitchers. Injury risk is a big thing but there’s also a chance they may flame out. For their first few seasons, they’ll make under $1.5MM. In arbitration, they could see a significant pay hike, to be sure, but Matt Moore is now guaranteed a minimum $14MM based one a few dozen MLB innings. It’s conservative, but he has likely just secured himself a nice financial foundation for the rest of his life no matter how this whole MLB thing works out.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm trying to figure out how much a top pitching prospect who flames out ends up making.
It’s not zero. Especially if he’s as heralded as Moore.
Like, take Andrew Miller. I know it’s a hard comp because he was drafted higher and got a decent guaranteed deal and bonus. But Miller flamed out and is now making a million dollars a year as a bullpen guy. So, what’s Moore’s “worst case” for those first five years, really? Couple million?
Like I said, I do get it, somewhat. The marginal value of those dollars is substantially higher for Moore than it is for the Rays. But Lawdy that’s conservative, especially giving the team those options.
This year is just wack..
We win the Wolrd Series !!!!!!! Yeah !!!!!!!!
Larussa retires….uh okay…not so bad.
Pujols to Anahiem…. WTF ?
Talk about a roller coaster of emotions…
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
pujols can go wherever he pleases
we just won the ws
i’m happy
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I'm not as happy as I could be....
I’ll cheer up…eventually.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
And Luhnow poached
Sigh.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
Fielder has a thing for Pappys ?
“After he ate here, I think he went something like 4 for 8,” Emerson says. “I told [Cards pitcher] Adam Wainwright(notes) about it and that night he yelled at Prince from the dugout and asked how he liked our ribs.”
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Money comes, money goes....
…but great ribs are essential. If I were Fielder I’d take a discownt to play in St. Louis just to get great ribs. I mean, its not like he’s gonna starve for 150 mil instead of 200 mil. Great ribs is worth 50 mil to me. But gotsta be pork!
;=8)
2011 World Series Champions!
And that is NERTLERB!!!!!!!!!!
:=8D
But he a vegetarian and thus doesn't eat Cows or your friends the little piggy's
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think he is a vegetarian anymore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Really?
I did not know that, apparently MLB.tv doesn’t either
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
the article says he admitted to being done with that
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Oh... sorry then MowCow
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Is it common to have a big dip in BABIP between the minors and majors?
I was looking at Tyler Greene a little closer.
First, in both 2010 and 2011 while in the majors, he put up an OBP 100 points higher than his BA. When looking at his minor league numbers, this doesn’t appear to be an abberation. However, his BABIP for his minor league career is .327, but while in the majors it is .284.
Basically, what I’m saying is this…
How likely is it Greene can put up a .360 OBP (which would likely require a .260 BA)? And if he is capable of such, should he be the shoe-in for SS?
.360 OBP wouldn't be realistic.
If he’s hitting decently, I’d peg him for .330-.340 at best. Dude strikes out a ton and that’s not going to change. His career minor league OBP is only .346, no reason to think it’d be higher in the majors.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Except that pitcher selection is a skill.
Increased walk rate is heartening as it carries over very well from MiLB to MLB.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
He also seems to take a bunch of HBP
Has it been proven statistically that it is a skill? Years of watching Fernando Vina tells me that it is, but I haven’t seen it statistically shown anywhere
.360 is such a stretch though.
Only Tulo, Reyes, and Yunel had OBP’s that high last season at SS. .
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
I'd be happy as can be if he could put up
a .330 OBP over the course of a season. I’d also like him to get that K-rate under 20%.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
in 2010 and 2011
He put up an OBP of .328 and .322 with the Cardinals. So if you are happy with .330, you really aren’t expecting much, if any, improvement over 2010 and 2011?
I’m not really expecting the K rate to go down much, that seems pretty consistent everywhere he has been, but I am excited to see if he can get that OBP near .360
Well i also want his slugging % to be higher than his OBP
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
If he is able to steal 30 bases
which does seem quite possible, you have to factor that in with the slugging percentage.
If you were to give Greene’s 11 SBs as TBs to his slugging percentage, you would instead have a slugging percentage of .394
Granted
Several of those SBs came as a pinch runner, which clearly makes it unfair to add it to batting statistics in my hypothetical
SB's are nice, but
There is no excuse for having a slugging % lower than your OBP. I wouldn’t expect this to happen again, but I’m not going to look back at his .328 & .322 and think its acceptable, knowing that he slugged .327 & .288. He needs to play much better to be a starting SS for the Cardinals. Theriot be damned.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think his major league stats to date are reflective of his true talent
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
It would be awesome if he has a breakout year after figuring out ML pitching/hitting
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I think a .260/.340/.420 line is eminently reachable
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Plus lot's of SB and above average fielding and range would be acceptable
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
i do too, but as a best case scenario.
I think he likely falls considerably short of being a .760 OPS guy due to the tons and tons of strikeouts he’s going to pile up. I think he can reasonable be expected to hover slightly above or below .700, which is still fine.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
An out is an out.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a strikeout or a groundout. In fact, one could argue that strikeouts are often better because they don’t result in a GIDP.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
being able to hit the ball is rather important though.
his BABIP is .000 on K’s.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
well...you know what i mean.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Contact can be a skill.
I think Greene’s K rate is worrisome for projecting him in MLB. But he has always struck out. He has a good hitting eye and works walks at an excellent rate. He also has a lot of pop for a shortstop. I’ll take the K’s if they come with power and a decent walk rate.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm not denying that...
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
No I know. I was more supporting you than anything
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
another way out
nice write-up on brignac over at rays colored glasses
they got a logjam at ss and have let it be known reid is on the block
looking for catching and offense in general
cruz and adron, or something like that
then let him and tg fight it out
TLR is gone, long live the king
Jackson
could get called up right now and put up the same numbers as reid, and I really like Brignac/not a Jackson believer.
Something clever...
Question about TLR and Pujols
Possible at all that TLR knew Albert was going to go and is lining himself up for the Angels job? It would certainly appeal to TLR to be on West Coast again, he needs a few more victories to move up on Wins list, Albert loves him, and the Angels will win a lot of games in the next 10 years.
Just win
TLR has been tinkering around with a new philosophy on utilizing the DH
Might be irresistible enough to give it another shot to test the theories
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
i think tlr is now aiming much higher
like joining his friend joe torre somewhere in the halls of mlb
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I would be surprised if not, he did make a visit to the commish's office on the last series stop in Milwaukee
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
He's already on Selig's
super secret ultra magic baseball committee that totally fucked the draft and international FA. If he wants an MLB job he’ll have one.
Something clever...
Selig is retiring next year
TLR for commissioner of baseball?
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Torre another spot for TLR
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure how I would handle that
DH is replaced with the pitcher hitting 8th rule. Teams must perform at least one double switch/game.
Something clever...
when's the presser, 1:30 normal people time?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
not gonna watch
I’ve handled it well up to now.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
isn't watching kinda like
watching the long time girlfriend on a sex tape with the guy she left you for?
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
closure
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
no one said anything about happy
i was just asking about the time
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
yes what time/batchannel?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
it is supposed to be on
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Thanks d-dee. Both are cued up and ready to roll
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
what are the odds
He plays the “respect” card? I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and say only 20%
0 today but i think such stories will leak really soon
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
....
joestrauss How to ruin Albert’s day: Tell him I’ve been hired by LA Times. #Fiction
Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/#ixzz1g9YidU74
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
oh... yes, please do...
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 10, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
I WILL THROW A PARTY
veb can probably collectively pitch in to pay his first year’s salary at the la times if they promise to keep him afterwards
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
10 year deal with NTC?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Albert Pujols doesn't give a fuck about you, asshat.
I, on the other hand, would pay for your plane ticket out there.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Kind of boo
@Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #Cardinals making progress on deal with Furcal. Rules out another suitor for Rollins. #MLB
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I hope we win the WS again next year...even better would be doing it against the Halos.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
by Red Blazer on Dec 10, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i'd like it better if the halos didn't even make it to the postseason
in the next 10 years
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Dec 10, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
while its unlikely for them to not make the postseason in a division with oakland, seattle and houston
I’d be happy if they never make it to the world series
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 10, 2011 2:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And after that,
They can go into a slump.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Dec 10, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
No way
I want the Rangers in the W.S every year for the next 10 years and if we have to loan them Berkman late in the year (when we know we can’t make it), I’m all for that, too.
Just win
i don't approve of all this not making it business
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Berkman nixed any ideas of a loan last year
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
It wouldn't be a loan this time.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
I was replying to this
if we have to loan them Berkman late in the year
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Remember when we almost traded Berkman because we were almost out of it?
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but Berkman nixed that
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Because I want Greene to get a real shot more than I rationally should
But I guess there’s always 2B for one of them
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Dec 10, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Mo is shrewd
I think he’s playing his hand perfectly: bringing in a SS we know can play at the ML level, while testing out Tyler the back-up role.
If we put all our chips on Tyler and he plays like he has up to this at the ML level, then what?
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
or, as you said, getting Tyler a lot of time at 2b as well
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
I like this thought. Do it Mo!
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'm really pulling for Dirty Dan at Second (since '10 seemingly) and Furcal at short.
Greene as infield utility/insurance would be ideal, but I really don’t seem him as a legitimate every day player in the majors.
"Son, what kind of pitch would you like to miss?"
-The Diz
by The Classical on Dec 10, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Tyler Greene had the highest wOBA of .422 in AAA
Among SS with at least 200 PA’s. Both Pacific and International league.
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, this.
Make him starting 2B and go from there.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe it is a Descalso/Greene platoon at 2nd?
Descalso against righties, Greene against lefties
And no, I haven’t looked up splits yet
Furcal isn't the healthiest guy in the world also
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Punto MIF insurance for backup to the back up
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that sentiment as I would like Greene to get a chance too.
But the way I see it, with TLR gone, TG is likely to get a lot more opportunities to show he can be an everyday SS and Furcal is only short term.
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
I'd sign Beltran first
Seems like a more pressing need to me, with Tyler Greene around. At best I Furcal is a 2 win upgrade, and at worst he’s no upgrade at all.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
If there's money post-Beltran, then we can talk to Furcal.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
"if theres money left"
Jeez…how much do you plan on paying him?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
All I want for Christmas is
Beltran, Furcal, and a competent LOOGY
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'm assuming they'll need close to $8 million to sign Furcal.
So assuming there’s there’s $20 million in the budget, Beltran would have to sign for $12 million. Maybe there’s more money than that for Mo to spend, but the point is Beltran should be the priority.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
can always free up more room by getting Westy to waive the NTC
by telling him he’s going to the bullpen. That’s the last thing he wants to hear as he heads into free agency again after next season.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
oh. fucking. well.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
because we won't have any reason to want to attract players in the future, right?
either way, it’s a dick move. that should be motivation enough. don’t be a dick
I didn't realize the business side was so gentlemanly.
This would be a non-issue in attracting players in the future. In fact…I wouldn’t mind taking the no NTC policy like the Marlins.
Guys like Lohse and Westbrook have no business getting NTC’s.
None.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
they have NTCs because they accepted less money
once the cards get a reputation for pushing people out of their NTCs, people will stop taking them and accepting less money
it’s not going to happen either way, because it’s bad business
agree
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
with Furc Westy should be more confident = better next year anyway
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Um. Furcal could easily be a 3-4 win upgrade over Tyler Greene.
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Plus, Greene can just shift over to 2B.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
How is he going to be a 4 win upgrade?
He hasn’t been worth much more than 4 wins in a season since he was on the Braves and has averaged 2.7 since signing with the Dodgers. Unless you think Greene is a replacement level player, I don’t see how Furcal can be projected as worth 4 more wins.
Greene should be in between 1-2 wins pretty easily. More than that seems pretty optimistic to me. I’d hope for 3 wins out of Furcal. Furcal should be a 1-2 win upgrade, but with injuries and aging, and the chance that Greene would have put up a strong season it’s not hard to see a world where Furcal is no upgrade at all.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Agree to disagree.
With regular PT I’d have expected offense and defense around league average, maybe a touch below. That’s at least 1 WAR. I’m not going to praise him as a being an above average guy, because that remains to be seen. But I’m sure he’d be at least 1 win above replacement. Anyway, I’m sure he’ll get ABs with Freese and Furcal’s injury histories, so we’ll see.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
You are crazy
Dude had an ops over 1.000 in AAA and he plays SS. He is not sub replacement
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Over three years
Probably a better player now than he was in 2009, when accumulated -0.3 WAR.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Greene very easily could be below replacement
He strikes out a lot for not having much power, and seems pretty error prone on defense. That’s not what you’d project, but “sub-replacement” is well within his possible outcomes.
Not afraid to nitpick
It's possible
But I’d say it’s very unlikely. No less unlikely than Furcal busting a knee or OPSing .687 over 600+ PAs.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think that's likely
He’s probably a 1.5 WAR player and Furcal is probably a 3 WAR player. Still a nice upgrade.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
Ha ha
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Source: #Cardinals making progress on deal with Furcal. Rules out another suitor for Rollins. #MLB
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
Ugh wrong tweet
Jon_Heyman Jon Heyman
#astros may have interest in ryan theriot if cardinals non-tender him. Good stick, versatile
"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter
I thought they were trying to get better?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
They are
They’re going for the first pick in the 2013-17 drafts.
Something clever...
by Dttl89 on Dec 10, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
yeah no kidding
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Bad Luhnow, bad.
(smacks Luhnow’s hand)
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
set the bar low, man
the first time I’m asked to draft a motion, I’m just going to hand in a paper bag smeared with poop. Everything halfway decent after that, they’ll be like, wow that mattyp guy is really coming on strong, the head partner better watch his back
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
LOL Luhnow
I thought you were a smart guy…wtf?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't judge Luhnow until this move is actually made.
Its more likely Heyman is spewing crap than Luhnow is actually interested in Theriot.
Yeah, this.
It just makes me throw up in my mouth a little seeing those words used to describe Theriot.
Luhnow
Will probably be looking for as many 1 year deals for 2M or so as he can for a couple years.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 10, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
well he already said "w won't win this year"
so he might as well fill a hole with theriot
no one will notice the sucking
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Heyman has been complimentary of Theriot in multiple tweets
and has been linking him to the Astros since before Luhnow took over. I think Heyman is just trying to help out Theriot’s agent in some sort of quid pro quo way.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Theriot was a terrible defensive SS that was a downgrade for a competative Cardinals team
That doesn’t mean he can’t be a relatively cheap 2B offensive upgrade for a team that’s already bad.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
hahahaha
Oh…..damn that’s funny! Lunhow needs to stick to drafting evidently.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
just kidding about Lunhow
I just can’t see anybody picking up Theriot. But I guess if you’re already in no-hope land, it can’t hurt much.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Pujols Press Conference Bingo!
The free space is “I’m grateful to Saint Louis….”
Additional spaces: I hope to bring a WS to the Angels
There’s a lot of talent on this team
I loved this city when I came here during the All-Star game
C.J. Wilson is a great pitcher
It’s time for me to turn the page
….and so on
Everybody wins Bingo if some reporter brings up the quote about “why would i want to leave for an extra 3-4 million a year” and Pujols actually gives a response, other than “no comment” or something else that doesn’t really answer it.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 12:48 PM EST reply actions
i'm rather bummed out this is a joint presser, i'm the fuckin superstar here
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I think Albert is in for a rude awakening in LA
sure he’ll be respected and people will cheer him. But he’s not going to run the team. Out in CA he’s a little fish in a big pond. There’s stars all around him and he’s no different.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
that's exactly what i was wondering
how’s he gonna like playing on team where he doesn’t call the shots
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
LA is a Lakers first town
Everything else is second fiddle
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
If he wanted to be That Guy he would have stayed in St. Louis
Why are you assuming he thinks he is going to “run the team”?
I'm sure I missed the Fielder discussion
but what’s the consensus?
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 12:50 PM EST reply actions
Largest contracts in National League history
Matt Kemp – 8 years/$160 M
Troy Tulowitzki – 10 years/$157.75 M
Todd Helton – 11 years/$151.5 M
Johan Santana – 6 years/$137.5 M
Alfonso Soriano – 8 years/$136 M
Barry Zito – 7 years/$126 M
Jayson Werth – 7 years/$126 M
Ryan Howard – 5 years/$125 M
Mike Hampton – 8 years/$121 M
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 12:54 PM EST reply actions
<3 u Matt Holliday
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Dec 10, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
That was a good deal for us
Hope the big lug stays healthy and decides against HR derbies
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
second this.
and why all the haters can shut the fuck up.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Outfielders outside of Beltran, what do folks think of ...
Willingham® 246/332/477 OPS+121(2011) 262/361/475 121(career)
Crisp (S) 264/314/379 OPS+91 (2011) 275/330/406 95(career)
Ludwick® 232/314/330 OPS+88 (2011) 261/332/455 110 (career)
Kubel (L) 273/332/434 111 (2011) 271/335/459 112 (career)
cf: Beltran (S) 323/369/551 156 (2011) 283/361/496 121
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
No to Ludwick, no to Kubel, I'm okay with the other three
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Isn't Willingham looking for a three-year deal?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
no need for corner OF's anyway.
Holliday and Craig should have this on lockdown. The only way we should be signing a starting OF is if its for CF.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
What if Jay is still our everyday CF and we look at a corner OF who could
occasionally spell Jay? Also, we still need someone for ~1 month while Craigen is recovering.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
Craig may miss the first two months and could play first base in 2013.
So I’d be okay with signing a corner outfielder.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Not interested in Crisp or Ludwick (sorry Luddy).
Willingham and Kubel are both guys I like, but they’re not really at a position of need (and not upgrades over Craig).
Would I be only speaking from my heart and not head if I am hoping that
being back in STL will revitalize Luddy? He’s only 33, and I think he can still fill-in at CF.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
whoa Coco wasn't very good last year
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 10, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
As a fourth outfielder, though, he wouldn't be bad.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i have a sneaking suspicion if coco didn't have the fro and the name "coco"
his name wouldn’t even be on the original list… haha
Beltran...and only if he can still play CF.
No to all the others.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
he can't play it well
and he’d be taking time from Schumaker anyway
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 10, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
pretty much just beltran
crisp might be a decent 4th OF, but i doubt clank would ever get anything done again
I'd honestly rather have Cody Ross over all of these guys.
seems like a perfect fit for this team.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
This
Look at his numbers against lefties
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 10, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
soooo why didn't you link to it?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Y2S Keeping order in the VEB universe. Good on you
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
wat
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a question for you guys...
Lets say Lance Berkman puts up another monster season and shows no signs of slowing down. Let’s also say Matt Adams destroys AAA and hits well in a September call-up.
Who is playing 1B for the Cardinals in 2013?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:32 PM EST reply actions
Good question, obviously Berkman's playing days are numbered, but if he's putting up monster seasons I love Berkman
He’s a leader, candid, and very funny. Perhaps find a new position for Craig and move Berk back to RF?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
the older he gets, the less you should want to move him back to the of
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
He shouldn't be in the OF anyway.
Not unless Albert Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, Adrian Gonzalez, Prince Fielder, or Mark Teixeira, Joey Votto, or Ryan Howard is your first baseman.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
even ryan howard.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
a propos, what's gonna happen to 1b for the phils this year?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
i'm wondering if they'll throw Thome out there.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
He'll get some time there, but he won't be able to go everyday.
Early speculation was Mayberry would get a lot of the starts. Don’t know what their thinking is now.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
thats gotta be it.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
oh wait...
John Mayberry. Duh.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
If he's having monster seasons suggests he might be able to handle it. But was just suggesting I'd like a destroying Matt Adams, Craig, and Berkman all playing
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Furcal
but at this point the Giants must not be “into him” and everybody pretty much knows Rollins was headed back to Philly. So my guess is that after A Gonzalez signed with Milwaukee the other day that Furcal’s agent no longer had the Brew Crew as on option to hold over Mo’s head. The price must be right…….I am hoping a 1 year year deal with a guaranteed 5 mil…….up to 7.5 with incentives. His defense was solid……and though he’s getting older the low OBP doesn’t fit what had been the norm for him. Is Furcal boys with Beltran? If so and this somehow helps propel Carlos our way I’m in.
Giants have already maxed out their payroll.
No significant additions, and they’ll be dumping one of Keppinger or Fontenot.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think we have a good shot at Kinsler in a year or two
by David201 on Dec 10, 2011 1:44 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Did he also say winning is more important than the money?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I won't be convinced until Kinsler has a bronze statue of himself in a Rangers uniform installed in front of his Arlington restaurant right after entering free agency.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 10, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ian Kinsler as a Cardinal
Would be wonderful.
Don’t make me dream!
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
more Pearl Jam to cope
Bu$hleaguer
Off he goes
Why go
state of love and trust
nothingman
faithful
and finally. . . come back
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Dec 10, 2011 1:48 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I've just been listening to "Say It Ain't So" by Weezer on repeat.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
while crying into your authentic Pujols jersey?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
that you can get for $24.97
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Some stores were giving them away the other day, you would be overpaying
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
that was a chain of four stores in the STL area.
they’ve since run out.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
just quipping
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
heh
just keeping it live
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
I cheered myself up by looking at photographs of Stan Musial on the LIFE Magazine Google database.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
heh.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rec if i werent on mobile
Add-
Gone
Long Road
Indifference
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Dec 10, 2011 2:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the trifecta
Nothingmang
Leathermang
Better Mang
also
Almost the entire track list of Eddie’s ukulele album works.
ugh..
I’m gonna watch it. Stupid self.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 1:58 PM EST reply actions
i won't out of respect for the guys here that don't want to know about it
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
I NEED A LINK
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:03 PM EST reply actions
oh it's not until 1:30? carry on.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
d-dee posted links above
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
this furcal thing is happening.
2 years, per morosi.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Furcal is back. good stuff
jonmorosi Jon Morosi
Source: Furcal, #STLCards “finishing up” two-year contract.
here
jonmorosi
Source: Rafael Furcal’s new deal with #STLCards will be north of $12 million over two years.
That's decent
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
how far north, dummy.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
2yrs 160 mill
GOTTA SPEND THE PUJOLS CASH
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 10, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
here nick
jonmorosi
Source: Rafael Furcal’s two-year deal with #STLCards will “likely” come in around $14 million.
thanks!
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
here a better one
jonmorosi Jon Morosi
Source: Rafael Furcal’s two-year deal with #STLCards will “likely” come in around $14 million.
I like that a lot
Good job Mo
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
I can dig it.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
SHAFT!
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
yey shortstop!!
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
typer greene crying in a dark corner somewhere
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
He's the team stenographer now?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
you know what I meant
sshhush … watching the travesty
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Angels presser
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
furcal is a (fill in the blank) WAR upgrade over internal options at SS for 2012
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:29 PM EST reply actions
Has this been discussed in the last couple days ?
With Albert gone how does this affect the team’s situation with other Latinos ?
Is the Furcal more or less likely to return ?
Is Yadi more or less likely to sign an extension ?
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Dec 10, 2011 2:30 PM EST reply actions
no?
just signed.
who knows.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
How about Yadi brings in the other Latino's / becomes the Latino leader
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
i'm not sure we're really ... lacking, currently.
the guys all tend to hang out with each other, or not hang out too much. the most leadership we hear about is the checkers game.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Don't get the checkers ref, do they play checkers?
And yes, not leadership lacking, AP didn’t seem to be much of a leader, outside of stats that is, but leadership, no it didn’t really look like it
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
here we go
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
14M over 2 years for furcal.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:32 PM EST reply actions
holy shit i can't do this...
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:32 PM EST reply actions
To Albert's Son
“That Angel’s number five looks good on you boy.”
I think I’m a masochist for listening to this.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
Made it through a minute of that press conference
before it made me feel sick to my stomach, and I turned it off
Pujols has to share the presser with CJ Wilson?
I can’t believe they aren’t showing more respect. He must be burning up inside.
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 10, 2011 2:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Disrespected!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
That's 1 Angels
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
on top of not getting A-Rod money
can’t believe he doesn’t retire in disgust over all this disrespect
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 10, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Damn GM looks young
And the weather looks awesome out there in Anaheim
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
LOL...
“one of the all-time great Angels…..Bobby Grich!!!”
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 2:38 PM EST reply actions
Captain Who?!
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Why are they not wearing jersey's?
Just business?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
what a bunch of played up bullshit.
who is there from saint louis?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:40 PM EST reply actions
ex-resident Albert Pujols
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
This is terrible so far..
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 2:40 PM EST reply actions
With $3Biiiiiiiiiiiilllllllllllllllllllllllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiioooooooooooooon dollars
Why didn’t Arte just buy the Yankees and move them to Anaheim and leave Cards icons alone?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
He's no longer an icon to me.
Now he’s just a great player that used to play here.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was talking about the TV contract the Angels just secured
They now have tons of cash
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
"Arguably the best talent of our generation"
That’s it. Pujols is dialing Lozano to get out of this.
Sign Roy O
So he can just show on our doorstep after leaving us like that?
NO THANKS ALBERT I’M MUCH HAPPIER WITHOUT YOU
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
He decides he doesn't want that California slut anymore?
Too bad, we’re not taking you back!
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
....(I would.)
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
That's because your fragile emotionally
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
you stop that
and give him a hug
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I don't care if I am or not
If Albert wants back, he’s welcome and he has my number. But until then I’m going to move on with my life — I’m not going to wait for him and I don’t need him to make me happy.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
He has to learn to be independent
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
He has to learn to be independent
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Alright, alright I get it.
sheesh. You sound like a broken record.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
don't bring him back here
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
...and the crowd is just like, "meh".
they’re just wanting to cheer for albert and that’s it.
THEY DID IT FOR TORTY! 2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
twitter
...Angels fans just booed when they heard CJ Wilson's bio
and “Texas Rangers” was read. Seriously? You’re going to boo the player’s previous team when you’ve just signed the guy?
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
I realize that,
but I dunno. If say, randomly, we sign a Cubs player and have a press conference, do you think Cards fans in attendance would boo when “drafted by the Cubs” was read off of his bio? I mean, maybe, but I’d think that would be a bit ridiculous. Like rubbing salt in a wound.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
y'all let us know if we squeeze any memes outta this
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Nolan said get him the f out of here, he's a dufus
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Furcal is official
@jcrasnick
Jerry Crasnick
Rafael Furcal has reached agreement with #Cardinals on 2-year deal pending a physical this week, source says
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
We’ve signed someone
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I really don't understand how the local guys keep getting scooped on Cards signings.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
$14M, per goold
@dgoold #Cardinals and Furcal have agreed on two-year, $14 million deal, pending physical early next week, agent confirms. #STLcards
THEY DID IT FOR TORTY! 2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
twitter
So, I guess I have enough steel in me to handle the liveblogging.
Still not turning it on.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 2:49 PM EST reply actions
here we go.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:49 PM EST reply actions
well he didn't deserve it last year
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 10, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
he was supposed to miss it last year with the wrist injury
started losing votes.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
I hope Albert gets "mic-checked"
by a bunch of Cardinals fans.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 2:51 PM EST reply actions
only if they hum Here Comes the King
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
BARF
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:53 PM EST reply actions
FLAAAAAASH................WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
HE'LL SAVE EVERY ONE OF US
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
HE'LL SAVE WITH A MIGHTY HAND
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
NO ONE BUT THE PURE AT HEART
CAN FIND THE GOLDEN GRAIL
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
SAVIOR OF THE UNIVERSE
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
DISPATCH WAR ROCKET AJAX TO BRING BACK HIS BODY
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
IMPETUOUS BOY!
Ah, well. Who wants to live forever?
DIVE!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Why is there water leaking from their eyes?
They’re called tears. It’s a sign of their weakness.
(I think I’m starting to miss the original point. I should probably go eat)
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
come on media, bring it
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
wow
“That’s a stupid question, Angels’ guy.”
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
did they not get the memo from last year......
fespn will be all over that, even though the original was partly with their help
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
First questions was does he realize the expectations
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
strauss and burwell there....
we sent our best two, obviously.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:56 PM EST reply actions
they'll be stranded there, right?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 10, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
we can only hope california breaks off the continental US in the next hour.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
There was a "mix up" with their return tickets
We are “trying” to “sort it out” in a “timely” fashion.
The two of them might wanna think about finding a place to live while they’re there, just in case. The real estate market is pretty healthy in California right now, right?
situation is fluid.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Strauss actually made a funny
JoeStrauss Joe Strauss
Burwell looks great in his size 48 Pujols jersey!
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
funny from a guy who buys his clothes in the boys' section.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 4:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I've never seen anything but a head shot of Strauss
Is he a small guy?
I just thought the part about Burwell wearing a Pujols jersey was funny after that piece Burwell wrote.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
stop disrespecting Albert by asking questions about him to others and looking for a story
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
CJ Wilson is well spoken
I like him.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
I suspect Moreno only refers to himself in the third person.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
And he doesn't answer it
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
albert getting heckled for calling anaheim "LA"
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:00 PM EST reply actions
My god now he gets the city wrong...
Does he know LA is a two hour drive from where he’s going to play baseball?
Sign Roy O
Albert: "Wait, this isn't the Dodgers?"
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
I thought I was gonna play with Mannngy
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'M IN THE AL?!?!?!?
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
This sounds really awkward.
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 3:00 PM EST reply actions
My thoughts exactly
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
that wat the A stands for
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
YESSSSSSSSSSS albert plays Big mac card
it’s not why i left St.louis..its about the Angles
because TLR
what a bunch of cop out answers.
what a shame. what a fraud.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:01 PM EST reply actions
I agree.
As Cards fans we want answers, but this pres conference really is about the Angels and their fans, not us. That’s what makes it difficult.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
sooooooooooooooo awkward.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:02 PM EST reply actions
Angels announce plans to skip 2012 season, hold a series of parades.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:03 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Furc's gonna furc in STL another two seasons for $14 mill.
Manchester City: 38 points, 12-0-2, 1st in EPL, +35 GD
Sergio Aguero: 11 G, 3 A
Edin Dzeko: 10 G, 3 A
by cardinalswsbound on Dec 10, 2011 3:04 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
for those that speak Spanish is Albert any more eloquent in Spanish than he is in English?
I don’t speak Spanish, but it sounded like a lot of Spanish versions of the “Ahhhhhhh” while he was speaking
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
um.....
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
to say that i speak spanish
would be a very loose interpretation of the word “speak.” i’m honestly a little surprised i was able to make out the question that was asked
It was a follow up to your response/thread more than directed to you
but if you understood one but not the other that may answer the query
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Repeat of the previous...
why leave and go to Anaheim. A: b/c Moreno, potential of the team, etc…
Sign Roy O
Didn't you know?
“Mang” is actually Spanish for “250 million.”
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
I can't believe the Angels didn't invite Latroy Hawkins to be a part of the presser.
What a bunch of dicks
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:06 PM EST reply actions
hahaha apparently he tweeted this yesterday
@MattSebek
Matt Sebek
There’s a 75% chance Albert Pujols believes Jared Weaver is the same stoner he won a World Series with in 2006.
by Wombat x on Dec 10, 2011 3:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is yet another point I've been meaning to bring up
It’s crazy to me to suggest that people will feel the same way about Pujols at the end of his career as they do now. Time changes things.
People still love Kurt Warner
And he was only here for a couple years.
Fuck him for that.
He could of said, “well I still love st. louis and HOPE the city still loves me”….but no, Albert.
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 3:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
false albert
you are entirely too naive if you think you will continue to be loved in st. louis
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I GUARANTEE he gets a huge standing ovation if he ever comes back for interleague play.
Not gonna happen in the playoffs though.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
i do not guarantee this. at all.
and he will come back as soon as next year as we go to full time interleague.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
those that boo will be completely drowned out by cheers.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Those that boo are absolute fucking morons
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 10, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I would understand the sentiment
But it would still be absurd, considering the amazing things he did for this team.
YOU DON'T KNOW ME JOKER
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
This is what happens when you call names and state absolutes joker
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
If I were in attendance, I would probably boo
guess I’m a fucking moron then
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I'd be happy to take bets on this.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take the money
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
not the bet, though?
hmmm….you all seemed so confident a few minutes ago
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'm don't know what you are referring to
the joke about Theriot blowing the silent treatment when AP hit the 3 HR in WS?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
no...the bet that Pujols will get a standing ovation when he returns.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I was just being opportunistic in taking the money
Don’t want to bet but will be surprised if he doesn’t get standing ovation.
My not knowing what you are referring to is about
hmmm….you all seemed so confident a few minutes ago
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
mixed bag.
possibly more boos. the odds of a standing O are unlikely.
THEY DID IT FOR TORTY! 2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
twitter
no chance of more boos. none.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
The correct response to a Pujols AB in Busch should be silence...
no cheers no boos. Silence with everyone looking away pretending they are doing something else.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
everyone should get their wallets out.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
everyone should get on their fucking feet and stand and applaud
end of story.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
because you got to enjoy 2 championships in 6 years
and he played a really big fucking role in that.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Arbitrary end points
we got 2 in 11. Not that that changes your point.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
he was applauded then ...well paid...
I appreciate that…he wasn’t alone. others took at bats played d and pitched.
Im pissed.
maybe I m too easily fooled but baseball isone of the last parts of my childhood I still have left where its not about working paying bills etc. If I want to be pissed and react to what appears to our star player who claimed he wanted to be a lifer goes and sells us out for 40 mill…then hey let me vent.
I don’t want too boo but I don’t want to cheer so the classy thing to do is be silent.
i was joking about the throwing of dollars. I would never do that to anyone.
I love and appreciate Al but I don’t have to like what he did and I should be entitled to express that displeasure.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
you are entitled to act however you want.
I’d never tell anyone they can’t boo, but you probably should be cheering. Like someone said earlier, by the time he comes back so much time will have passed that he’ll get the ovation anyway.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
hey,,, I get you...
I think you get me ….but as for cheering…we will see…
If he gets a standing O, which he prolly will. then good for him.
by spring training most of the sting will be gone and hell maybe even I will applaud but right now Im not feeling the warm fuzzies..
and I’m not a booer, the closest I ever came to booing was at this work thing for the boss and i yell boooourns!!!
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
I realize people are emotional still and many are angry (I am merely sad which maybe makes me the weird one)
Because of this I’m not taking people too seriously right now when they claim they will feel this way or that way or boo Pujols or give him the silent treatment in the future. Emotion clouds judgment.
emotion does cloud judgemebt but it is also part of being human.
I range between sad, no more Pujols
Angry….Angels will be jocking our Pujols
&
relief ….we don’t have to pay a crippled 41 year old bench bat 25 mil.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
I've done my share of booing.
Mostly closers. Brantley, Isringhausen, Franklin.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Pujols was paid about a third of what he was worth
You honestly think he owes it to St. Louis to accept a discount to stay with them?
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 11, 2011 5:58 AM EST up reply actions
I waited 25 years to see the cardinals win a world series.
I might wait another 25 more.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
How old are you Todd?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
you were already into baseball at 5, sounds like me on my grandpas lap listening to stories about the gas house gang
It was great. I’m a bit older, but he really knew his baseball and told great stories.
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
yep...just in time to see the last couple seasons of Whiteyball.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
The Heat was on....
Coleman was a pimp roadster.
double steals were all the rage and all the kids were doing back flips
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
math fail. he means he was 25 when he saw the
2006 WS. We didn’t win the WS 25 years ago. Curse you, Denkinger!
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 4:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was told there would be no math so I was doing it wrong, was thinking of the 82 WS and forgot the 06 version but still jacked it up
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
yeah..i was only 1 in '82 so that one didn't count.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
In my defense I was deployed in 2006 and my dad died as well as other emotional distractions
Before I get pounded for forgetting WS 10 in 2006
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
why?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
see above, kid
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
you know
we stood and applauded while he was here. he’s gone now and doesn’t deserve it anymore
by Wagonmaker50 on Dec 10, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
what about
snapping
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 10, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not anti-Albert now,
I just don’t want him to ever get more than the two rings he already has.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
oh screw you.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:07 PM EST reply actions
respect?
he found out on Tuesday they were interested, then signed on Wed/Thurs…
in 2 to 3 days he was shown respect…more like he was shown a wad of cash and jumped in without thinking.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
"Respect" means "10 years, $254MM."
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I wish we had gotten Edmonds to call Pujols to tell him how much playing for the Angels sucks.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Maybe Pujols wanted to be like Eckstein
Well, he won a WS in both leagues, Albert can’t stand being less successful than Eckstein.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
Eckstein= WS MVP
Give that man a statue
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
he referenced Jim Edmonds
and big mac and Skip that they texted him about living in SoCal, and offered him whatever he needed.
Because Matheny
SKIP STOP BEING SO DARNED HELPFUL
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Good, can they take Skip too?
Why couldn’t they have been a package deal?
by mick311 on Dec 10, 2011 3:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'll show you who has the best half shirts on Rodeo Drive!
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
I remember a story where Edmonds said he ran into McGwire at Target in SoCal
I want to go to that Target
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
its very obvious
By alberts answers that it was about the money.
" agent called me and said ’angels want to make you the….angels are in"
I mean come on, we all know what this was about. I dont hate him for taking the money, i dislike him for being a hypocrite.
All of alberts answers talk about how they all welcomed him. Stl welcomed him too but not just for his contributions on the field.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 3:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
He's not a hypocrite
He played the game that literally every athlete plays. Would you really like Pujols more if he had been saying “it’s going to come down to the money” for the past few years? It’s just naivety to have ever assumed that he wouldn’t flee for an offer that blew the Cards’ offer out of the water.
He’d have been liked less if he said it was about the money for the past 3 years, and the Angels fans would like him less if he said it was about the money now—-even though everyone knows it’s about the money.
Not afraid to nitpick
he said many times he wanted to be a lifer and it wasn't about money..
I think what is upsetting everyone is that he was lying through his phony wanna be a saint teeth.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
I apologize...that was a bit immature
but that is how I feel
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Literally every athlete ever does this
It’s a PR game, and it’s the right one to play.
Not afraid to nitpick
Not Prince Fielder.
He’s pretty consistently stated that he’d like to stay in Milwaukee but we’ll see what the offers are. In other words, I’ll stay here if they give me enough money.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 10, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I've heard athletes be up front about this...
Albert was not.
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 10, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that's slightly different. there was virtually no chance
Fielder remained a Brewer. Pujols had a decent chance of remaining a Cardinal.
If you say, I’m gonna take the money wherever it is, and then re-sign in your hometown, people will remember that. If you say, I’ll be a Cardinal for life, and then sign with the Angels, no one in LA will care what you said.
Saying you’ll follow the money is poisoning the well, and a lot safer to do when you know you’re leaving.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 4:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
i disagree that it is right and he should be left off the hook that easy
we all know sports players do this but we thought Al was different based on his charity work and down to earth personality…
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
this is the part i'll never understand
why do we just get to so conveniently ignore the fact that pujols BLATANTLY LIED SEVERAL TIMES and use the excuse that “every athlete does it.”
is there no accountability anymore?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
there never was.
what planet do you live on?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but my opinion isn't valid because i have accountability?
alright.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
you are a complete sucker
if you believed it wasn’t about the money.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
but i'm not allowed to be mad about him saying it wasn't?
alright…
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
you are allowed to be mad and pout about whatever you want...
doesn’t change the fact that you are a sucker for believing an athlete that says its not about the money.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
alright dude. alright.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
He's not going to stop commenting...
if you want to drop it you’ll have to be the one who doesn’t reply.
Sign Roy O
i thought that was it...
am i getting guay’d? goddamnit.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a complete sucker.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
The thing is
Every athlete says stuff like that. We don’t usually care, because the stakes are usually not as great. Only Albert Pujols is Albert Pujols. People literally had hopes and standards and expectations for Albert that no other player right now had.
We wouldn’t care about any other player not becoming a franchise legend, because no other player was anywhere near as great as Pujols was for eleven years with the Cardinals since Stan Musial.
that is not true
Do you see the hand-wringing from Milwaukee about Fielder? No! Because, he was up-front and said I’m taking the highest offer. If Albert had that, I don’t think you’d see the same reactions people are expressing here. Of course, people wouldn’t have invested invested so much emotion into him.
"Would you really like Pujols more if he had been saying "it’s going to come down to the money" for the past few years?"
I’d have been better prepared emotionally for him to leave, yea. And he could have not said anything. Maybe it was just naivety, but I believed him when he made it sound like he wanted to stay.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he did want to stay. Maybe he just thought going to the Angels was worth more to him.
Never once did he say for sure that he would stay.
Yea, maybe he did. but he took that offer pretty quick for a guy that wanted to stay in Stl.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
That's quite an assumption
Even if we can somehow proves that the amount of time is objectively “quick” we then have the issue of whether big decisions like this necessarily take longer to make.
It took less than a day.
Seems like a short time to consider where he and his family will spend the next 10 years of their lives and what his legacy as a ballplayer will be, especially if he had originally wanted something different.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
I seriously doubt he only took one day though
He’s been making the decision for years. He had to have had a decent idea about which places might want him.
I don't think he had any better idea than we did.
It’d be tampering if anyone said anything to him or his agent. And the Angels didn’t call Lozano until like 2 days before he made his decision.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Are people really still so naive that they actually still believe when people say, "It's not about the money"
The number of people out there who actually believed that drivel is the thing that shocks me most about the whole reaction to this.
Its more who it is coming from or who we thought we knew
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
are they going inside now or is that it?
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:13 PM EST reply actions
Albert said something in the press conference
to the effect he’d answer the question of why he left at a future time—not today
this shouldn't be a "saint louis vs LA" thing.
you don’t have to hate the angels because you disapprove of albert’s decision.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
I don't hate the Angels at all for this, they made some good moves for their team,
Doesn’t mean I can’t be anti-Angels because I don’t want them to get a ring with Pujols.
I am a college student that sleeps with a St. Louis Cardinals Fredbird Pillow Pet, and I am proud of it.
Things I hate:
1. Orange County
2. Obnoxious scenery-killing billboards
3. Self-absorbed superstars
Given that, the Angels are a pretty good franchise to despise.
Sign Roy O
Yea, it's cool. Not like any VEBers are from Orange County
…
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I don't hate the Angels because of Pujols
But because I worship Satan
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 10, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
you worship my mother in law?
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
Furcal
2 years 14 million….
I like this personally
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/cardinals-furcal-agree-to-two-year-deal.html
sorry if this has been reported above
my love for you is like a truck
This Jimmy Rollins post is now null and invalid.
The Cardinals have no respect for the average, everyday blogger just trying to make ends meet.
by purple_haze on Dec 10, 2011 3:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
amen brother
my love for you is like a truck
by TheHolyDiver19 on Dec 10, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
This song is so appropriate
Johnny Moz: You were drafted in the 13th round of the Rule IV Draft
When I met you
I picked you out, I shook you up, and turned you around
Turned you into someone new
Now eleven years later on you’ve got the world at your feet
Success has been so easy for you
But don’t forget it’s me who put you where you are now
And I can put you back down too
Bill De Witt: Don’t, don’t you want me?
JM: You know I can’t believe it when I hear that you won’t see me
BDW: Don’t, don’t you want me?
JM You know I don’t believe you when you say that you don’t need me
It’s much too late to find
You think you’ve changed your mind
You’d better change it back or we will both be sorry
BDW: Don’t you want me baby? Don’t you want me ooooooooh
BDW: Don’t you want me baby? Don’t you want me oooooooooh
Albert Pujols: I was drafted real late in ‘99 Mang
That much is true
But even then I knew I’d find a much better place
Either with or without you
The 11 years we have had have been such good times
I would like to believe that you still love me
But now I think it’s time I lived my life on my own
I guess it’s just what I must do
BDW: Don’t you want me baby? Don’t you want me oh
Don’t you want me baby? Don’t you want me oh
<a href="http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=don%27t%20you%20want%20me&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDEQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DuPudE8nDog0&ei=ZL7jTt-PHsqi8gO4styABA&usg=AFQjCNFbEiqKtjon_vAtCbbRPT5hyOaKYg&cad=rja" target="new">Linky
Bursting into song.
by Aranathor on Dec 10, 2011 3:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think he realized what had done
when Bobby Grich was introduced. Seriously…bobby fucking grich!…what the hell do these people do on opening day???? Do Bobby Grich, Tim Salmon, and Gary Disarcina all bust out the red blazers and get introduced?
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Garrett Anderson~!
wooooo!
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Mark Langston!
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 10, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Chuck Finley!
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Troy Percival!
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 10, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
The Angels "Hall of pretty good" is bigger than i thought!
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Who the hell are these people you mention?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
And best of all
We have co-opted some of their best players from the past two decades (Eckstein and Edmonds).
and Percival!
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair
They did get Adam Kennedy’s “Peak” years.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 10, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rod Carew and Nolan Ryan were pretty good
But they also had a lot of excellent years for other teams.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
slightly OT
when did the angels become the LA Angels of Anaheim, and why did they change?
THEY DID IT FOR TORTY! 2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
twitter
Yea, right when Moreno bought them
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Few years ago.
Wanted to change their location name to LA, but were contractually obligated to retain the name Anaheim (stadium deal, I think).
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
wait for when albert goes into a prolonged slump
Like last year, and see how many fans still cheer.
Granted some booed holliday when he stumbled but holliday is no pujols
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 3:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions
there's going to be idiots wherever you go.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
When I go to games, not that often, I see plenty of Holliday jersey's one of which was my RALLY shirt for Sept run/post season
I’ve never heard any Holliday booing on TV or in person
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I still vote, that in albert's first game back at Busch,
Everyone just remains seated and completely silent….no cheering, no booing….just silence
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 3:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions
we should start a campaign
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 3:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm waiting before deciding how I feel about this
one thing I know is the day I went to work thinking, the Cards have this, I was feeling worried for the future wondering…will the Cards be able to retrain future talent? Wainwright, Freese, Craig, etc. I feel somewhat relieved now but still waiting it out to see what my long term feelings will be.
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
If Theriot is still on the team he would just blow it like when Pujols returned to the dugout after the 3rd HR
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
I see this has already been discussed
It should be made an edict by someone important
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 3:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
or everyone could just chant
Who the fucking hell are you?
Who the fuck?
Who the fuck?
Who the fucking hell are you?
Well, thats what we’d do in this country.
Bursting into song.
I'm starting to think some of you guys are the jersey burners
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
was joke about how completely differently we treat sports in our two countries
not a serious suggestion.
Bursting into song.
is this like... a rally?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
or we could show appreciation for 11 mvp caliber seasons and 3 trips to the world series.
either way.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
he's had his appreciation
adoring fans; check
hella lots of cash; check
offers of more cash; check
success; check
management that bends over backwards for him; check
and then he threw it all back in the fans and organisations face for the sake of more cash. he deserves everything that come to him.
Bursting into song.
by Aranathor on Dec 10, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he will...
Make it a point to watch if he ever comes to stl….it’ll be deafening
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
How does leaving constitute throwing it all back?
I fail to see how leaving in any way diminishes all the great things that happened from 2001-2011.
this
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 11, 2011 4:42 AM EST up reply actions
He got paid $100 million and was worshipped for a decade...
do we really have to kiss his ass forever? You don’t continue to be nice to your GF after she dumps you.
Pujols got a competitive offer from the Cardinals and instead of taking it he chose to go somewhere totally random. He dumped the city of St. Louis and the fans of the team. Why can’t we boo him??
Sign Roy O
by guayzimi on Dec 10, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
you can
Most people will cheer
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
I wish the Angels were visiting Busch in 2012 so we could test this assertion...
by the time they do come to STL I suspect all will be forgotten and he will get an ovation.
Sign Roy O
he could play here on opening day 2012 and get an ovation
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I'll choose to be absent on those days
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
this.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say you couldn't
I just think it would be awesome of his entire first at bat was completed in utter, haunting silence
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 4:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
followed by a standing ovation for Shelby
when he K’s him on three pitches.
Why trade "The Mang"for "El Salmon", for less than $2M/yr, after taxes?
because he doesn't owe anything to us
he was paid 100 million for 350 million dollars worth of production, we still owe him something.
Secretary of WAR and Defense of the Tyler Greene Fanclub.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 11, 2011 6:04 AM EST up reply actions
told you
he took the Angels name and halo as a sign….sold him self out in 3 days…
apparently he never heard of Joan of Arc
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
ill never understand taking 3 days
To make a life altering decision.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 3:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i think the timeline was the angels were "in on him" starting tuesday
but wed night was when they actually made the 250 offer.
just say it was MONEY so that we can all be happy.
of course, us cards fans won’t, but you get the point.
THEY DID IT FOR TORTY! 2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
twitter
whoah what the hell
he just said “it was tough the last year knowing this opportunity was going to come”
BREAKING NEWS:
ALBERT WAS TAPPED UP BY ANGELS THROUGHOUT 2011. REPORTS INDICATE THIS IS REASON FOR DEPRESSES STATISTICS.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 3:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
WE FURCIN' FURCED!!!
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 3:21 PM EST via mobile reply actions
albert cried when he made the decision apparently
He cried because he could now be like scrooge mcduck and swim in money
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 3:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Nobody can be like Scrooge McDuck
I realized this a number of years ago — if you tried to dive into a pile of gold coins like that you would seriously injure yourself. So disappointing to realize that.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Even if you could
The part where you come flying back up out of the coins makes no sense either. Even as a kid, it was hard to take that cartoon seriously with such flaws in physics.
For one thing, I always had my doubts about GizmoDuck
I also figured it was very unlikely that Launchpad would never successfully land a plane, even by accident.
Also, how was Launchpad able to be in Duckberg AND St. Canard all the time?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Did they? First I've heard of this.
Do they have a timeline?
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Launchpad didn't seem to age much, fwiw.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
I just always assumed
I mean, were the shows ever on at the same time? Dang it, now I’m just gonna Wikipedia this…
True that
He maintained a young Ace Rimmer look.
OK, so far Wikipedia tells me DuckTales was 87 to 90, and Darkwing Duck was 91-92
So Darkwing Duck was at least on the air after DuckTales was over.
The final episode of DuckTales
Was the 2nd part of a to-be-continued episode:
“Scrooge, Launchpad, Dijon, and Poupon try to retrieve the Golden Goose from Glomgold and the Beagles before it can set off its transformations that can bring forth the end of the world. "
Sounds pretty intense.
Yea, you're right. DWD is post-DT
Launchpad leaves his job working for Scrooge McDuck in the series pilot, Darkly Dawns the Duck. Meeting Darkwing in his hangar, Launchpad claims to be the underappreciated superhero’s biggest fan. Launchpad offers to be Darkwing’s sidekick several times before the hero eventually accepts him.
It’s in Launchpad’s bio on the DuckTales characters wikipedia page.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Much love VEB
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
harold reynolds: it's not all about money
lance berkman would like a word with you.
THEY DID IT FOR TORTY! 2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
twitter
That's why I respect lance berkman
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Dec 10, 2011 3:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What did lance say?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 3:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I love Lance Berkman as a Cardinal. He is always frank and honest, often funny, and seems to be intelligent and a leader
I’ll take as many years of productivity he has to offer. He response to the reporter’s question: Lance there is a perception you do not care for the Brewers took about 1/1000 of a second. Berkman: That is correct.
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone else think the cards signed furcal right now just to take some interest for the press conference?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 3:29 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Just a thought
if albert puts up similar 10 yrs to his 11 yr would he be the greatest Angel of all time?
because TLR
No doubt
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 3:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It would be kinda cool to be able to say you are the greates player in one organizations history
And top 5 in anothers
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 10, 2011 3:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
it's not even close...
he’s going to be the greatest angel ever, but he’ll accumulate about half the WAR he did in saint louis.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
If we just sign Beltran, I'm gonna be really underwhelmed
Multiyear contracts for old dudes with injury problems does not sound like much of a rebound.
by purple_haze on Dec 10, 2011 3:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Do you really care about a "rebound"?
Why not just focus on making moves to benefit the team and leave it at that? I can understand if you don’t think signing Beltran is a prudent move on its own, but your comment kind of confuses me.
Tyler Greene and Adron Chambers...duh.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
brah, we took care of that today.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
This one goes out to you bluebirds on VEB
First I was afraid, I was petrified
Kept thinking we could never win without you on our side
But I spent so many nights thinking just how you did us wrong
I grew strong, I learned how to carry on
And so you’re gone, out to L.A.
At that presser with C.J. Wilson and that smile upon your face
I should have kept that damn donation to your family foundation
If I had known for just one second you’d turn your back on Cardinal Nation
Go on and walk right out the door, just turn around now
‘cause you’re not welcome anymore
Weren’t YOU the one who said there’s some things money just can’t buy
You think we’d forget, you think we’d lay down and die
Oh no, not I – I will survive
As long as we have Torty Craig, I know I’ll stay alive
I’ve got all my life to live, Bill’s got all his cash to give
And I’ll survive, I will survive (hey hey)
It took all the strength I had not to fall apart
Kept trying hard to mend the pieces of my broken heart
And I spent oh so many nights just feeling sorry for myself
Passed out on rye – now I hold my head up high
And you see me, somebody new
I’m not that chained up fan who’s still infatuated with you
So you and your sleazy agent can just go on and have your fun
‘cause we’ve got $200 mil in store to make another run
Go on and walk right out the door, just turn around now
‘cause you’re not welcome anymore
Weren’t YOU the one who said there’s some things money just can’t buy
You think we’d forget, you think we’d lay down and die
Oh no, not I – I will survive
As long as we have Rally Squirrel, I know I’ll stay alive
I’ve got all my life to live, Bill’s got all his cash to give
And I’ll survive, I will survive (hey hey)
Ad Maiorem Tortius Gloriam
by peppermartin on Dec 10, 2011 3:45 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
heh
ScottMCBSSportsScott Miller
Pujols press conference a complete dog and pony show. The serious questions will be asked after TV cameras go off and we all go inside.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 3:47 PM EST reply actions
It wasn't so much a presser, more of a Free Agency Championship Celebration.
Think what the Heat did last year with LeBron and Bosh, only with less smoke. Pujol$ didn’t even thank the Cardinals or fans or city once.
Curious.
If the Angels hadn’t made their offer, the Cards’ offer would have been the biggest one out there. Assuming he’d have taken that one and stayed, would he still be “Pujol$?”
Also what in the world would we call him if his name didn’t have the letter S in it?
Well, we wouldn't know if it were for money or victories.
But by leaving for the Angels, it’s pretty clear that he doesn’t care about winning and is just chasing the dollar bills. If he wanted to win, he would come to the team with loads of young talent that just won the World Series.
They'll compete, but they still won't be able to win their own division.
Especially if the Rangers add Prince.
MLBtv seems to think we are anyway without him
Also, I am hoping the Rangers change their stance on Fielder now that Pujol$ is in their division
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Don't know about subtractions
But I think they’re frontrunners to land Aramis.
Believe they let Counsell go.
Teach Me How To Torty
by HollidaysofThunder on Dec 10, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
No idea. Point was we tend to have breakout years when the MLB/FESP and other talking heads discount us and project we finish 3rd, 4th, or 5th ish
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah... the Angels are actually going to be pretty good.
And they tend to be at least in the conversation year in, year out.
Missed it...
Pujols called Jared Jeff and Anaheim Los Angeles. He looked nervous as a cat and made clear there is absolutely no reason for him to go to LAA except for Moreno’s billboard money.
Sign Roy O
Glad I didn't watch
the liveblog here makes Albert just look worse
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
And don't forget
His awkward statement that he believed the city of St. Louis would continue to love him.
Pujols 5 Grill will close within a year
The statue will probably be knocked over too
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
If they don't want to pay 24/7 security guard they should warehouse it
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
It'll only get worse from there
I haven’t heard anything good about the food here or on Yelp
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
Moreno respects him
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
So, have we decided how we're going to treat albert?
I think the last 11 years have to stand for something, but leaving out the back door for money and not even thanking us pretty much ruins him. I’ll say he’s a great player who was fun to watch, but a bad guy. I won’t hope that he breaks his leg, just hope he never has any success in Anaheim. And I’ll neither cheer nor boo him when he comes to St. Louis.
this seems to be the consensus...if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Okay, I like that.
And I assume we’re all going to avoid going to his restaurant so it runs out of business, right?
I'd stand and applaud, but I'm likely in the minority.
He owed us (the fans) absolutely nothing, and I’m having a very hard time generating any personal anger towards him.
He’s a historically great player who I was fortunate enough to be able to root for over 11 years, and left because another team valued him more highly than the Cardinals did, and that’s that.
by Pegasus on Dec 10, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
im prolly being emotionally irrational but eventually that will pass...
I haven’t felt this bad about a baseball event since the birds lost the series to KC.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
i always get more irrationally upset by the games than any free agent
hell i was way more devastated by the world series game 2 loss than this
been there....silly baseball . how do you hold such power over me?
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
Yeah, I've always been more of a team rooter than a individual player rooter
I root for whoever is doing well for our team / our team
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
By the time it happens
He’ll be getting a big ovation
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 10, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Furcal Deal... 14mil
Does Mo front load the deal with the extra cash this year and create a little more flexibility for next season?
no. front loading contracts is NEVER a good idea.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
the object is to hold on to as much money as possible for the longest amount of time.
it is always better to have $20 today than it is to have $20 tomorrow, metaphorically speaking.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Their discount rate is at least 5% and probably more like 8
That’d be equivalent to flushing 200k down the toilet, there’s just no reason to do it. If they want to “pay” 9M in 2012 and then 5M 2013, they can give Furcal 5M in 2012 and invest 4M in whatever they want. And it makes more sense to let the team do the investing since they are going to be better able to generate returns than Furcal.
Not afraid to nitpick
thanks, joker.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
also you owe me a story.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Crazy girlfriend
Argument at my house, in the exiting process she stole aforementioned espresso maker (I guess since she’d given it to me only like a month prior?)—-told her to give that back—-would only do so if we got back together—-I realized the value of being with someone who holds coffee making machines hostage (among other things) is lower than the value of said coffee making machine—-and thus I needed to buy a new espresso maker. Though really I should have just lied for a week or something because the original one was a lot better, but hey I think VEB can confirm that I’m obviously a stubborn bastard…and bitches ain’t shit.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 10, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
haha wow.
she must have put a lot of time, effort, and money into buying you that espresso maker and known that you had liked it a lot.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
crazy bitch, you say?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 10, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
And particularly not necessary
With Lohse and Westbrook money coming off the books anyway.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 10, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sick of watching talented players leave my teams for money
at least Albert is butt-ugly. Unlike a certain Cristiano.
Bursting into song.
I've got an albert pujols autographed sports illustrated.
it makes me sad.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
my brother got it for me when he was in the hospital.
he visited the hospital and signed a bunch of stuff for everyone.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
i was going to make a joke
then realised it wasn’t funny, put then pressed post rather than cancel
Bursting into song.
after watching the presser, i am at complete peace with this.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
busiest veb offseason saturday ever?
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 10, 2011 3:58 PM EST reply actions
oh I see
Furcy is back! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 10, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
i stopped by about 1 and had 450+ comments to wade through.
so, absolutely.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
now just sign the Shredder to play second, and Greene can play either position I'd guess
plus Dirty Dan utility infielder
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 10, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
veb is really bitter
i guess i shouldn’t be surprised, but after seeing most people come to the consensus that he probably wouldn’t be worth the money…
i didn’t expect this much bitterness
Don't say hi to me.
nah, the bitter people all showed up today.
rest of us sensibly drunk
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Exactly
People need to get over it and stop being bitter. It is better for the Cardinals in the long run anyways not to be locked into a 10 year deal.
it's hard for me to be bitter when we won the world freakin series this year
and we avoided a dumb contract
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 10, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Really in my opinion to above I wouldn't judge folks on VEB to be overly bitter today
Could be much much worse, but we’re better than that
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
People probably need time
I’m going to try to back off making arguments because I don’t want to come off as merely being contrary or antagonistic. Apologies to anybody if it seemed like I was fanning the flames or something.
bitter might not be the right word.
sad, yes. frustrated that he didn’t mention STL in his presser, yes.
THEY DID IT FOR TORTY! 2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
twitter
was my favorite player.
I was 10 when he came up and have been stuck at the computer for finals studying the last week
RE-SIGN EVERYONE
by Notorious PSC on Dec 10, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
so new memes so far ?
“situation fluid”
and “of Anaheim” is still #developing.
any others?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
would not pass the drunk-test.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Pujol$
Not really a meme though I guess
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
just reporting actually, but have a feeling it's going to stick for a while unless VEB actively protests against it
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Sheehan is such a tool...
joe_sheehan Joe Sheehan
The last time Rafael Furcal was a good player while playing in 100 games was 2006.
1 hour ago
Sign Roy O
Was pretty decent in 2009 too
3.5 WAR is good, imo.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Also fails to mention that his contract pretty fairly reflects this fact.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Sheehan is correct, FWIW.
But we’re paying Furcal to be a 2-win guy, so whatever. It’s a good signing, and Sheehan would acknowledge as much if he weren’t having fun being catty.
I'm probably alone in this
and it’s completely irrational. But I feel like pujols stole something from me. He took the opportunity I had to talk to my kids about how I watched one of the greatest players play his entire career for my beloved team.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
you're not alone there.
a great story it would have been… and thanks to money, it is no more.
THEY DID IT FOR TORTY! 2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
twitter
yep...its a kick in the balls irrelevant of money
but i guess he is his own mang….
perhaps he didn’t like being an icon/hero
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
The Post-Dispatch made a good point the other day though.
The pressure is worse in another city because they expect him to produce like he has. If he was in St. Louis, when he eventually starts to decline the fans would be more understanding. So there’s more pressure having to go to a new place and produce like he has.
I mean he's virtually guaranteed to be a total contract anchor from age 39-42
They aren’t going to like him then. But then again, is that good will worth $50 mil?
Not afraid to nitpick
I think that last line is not a throw-away.
I wonder if you lined up a bunch of guys working off seriously overlong, overpaid contracts and asked them how much it would be worth it to them to come to the ballpark and have fun -without booing, without the expectations – what they would say.
It seems like a lot of guys wind their careers up kind of bitter and angry. Which is probably part just the natural effect of not being able to play as well as before, or being burnt out, or just hurting with the aches and pains of 20 years in pro sports.
But throwing in the mental burden associated with being the best paid player on the team, the expectations from the press and the fans, etc., on top of that – I wonder what that’s worth.
i used to be disgusted, but now i try to be amused . . . - macmanus
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2011 5:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The same thing would happen in STL
Might be a little more muted, but he’d be resented at a pretty big level in those years (one more reason a 10 year deal is just stupid). The only difference is that he won’t really be a true franchise icon for anyone—-I’d take the $50 mil and go buy myself a Caribbean island to be the icon of.
I’m as pro-player as anyone, but I wish they’d max out contracts at 5 years (and I was saying this before the Pujols thing). The current system is fucked: by my count 3(!) of the 20 highest paid players in the game are still elite (4/21 when you count Cliff Lee’s anomalous 2011 salary). In what way is that not a systemic problem?
Really if I could re-write the whole system I’d blow all this arbitration/FA stuff up anyway. I’d rip off the NHL’s restricted FA system instead of the goofy arbitration thing. Say 3.0 years of MLB service time you get RFA, original team can offer 5 years/other teams only 4 years and a pick-compensation system based on AAV of contract (e.g. over 5M per year is a 2nd rounder, 10M a 1st plus a supp, 20M is two 1sts)
Prior to becoming a FA, the original team can negotiate a 5 year extension before the last year of the contract.
Most teams would be keeping their stars for 8 years before they hit FA and they have the leg up on extending their own players which makes developing talent even more important, the players who are actually good are the ones who get paid. And in return, players get paid MUCH earlier without having to wait 6 years to get a real contract with some stability and/or sell out half their value.
Not afraid to nitpick
It's definitely something we've lost
but it’s not like Albert has it now and is keeping it from you. It’s not theft, nor is it a crime. It’s just something he decided wasn’t worth it for him. After all, he has lost the opportunity to be worshipped in a town forever like Stan, Bob, Ozzie, Lou, etc.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, we never actually had this thing which he "stole" from us
We really, really wanted to get it. And it’s profoundly disappointing that we now know we won’t get it. However, in the end he chose to take a different offer which was worth more to him.
I just can’t say he was “wrong” for doing so, even though it really sucks for me as a fan. Even if he was “wrong” to do it, eh, I can forgive human beings for doing wrong.
The thing is, people keep talking about how he lost the opportunity too, but maybe he just didn’t want that nearly as much as we all did? If he tried to live up to the Musials and the Gibsons of the world, that clearly would have been something that was worth it more for the fans than for himself.
Debatable.
Anyway, I don’t hate the guy for leaving, but I don’t feel any love for him at the moment.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Can't blame you for that
I’m not particularly in love with him either. But it takes more than this to reverse my feelings for the best baseball player I’ve ever seen, who also seems to have some positive qualities as a person other than athletic talent.
Seems like he's mostly a good guy
with a kind of rough personality.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
2011, the year of the appendectomy
from the ESPN.com article about furcal
Furcal recently underwent an appendectomy, according to reports, but he is recovering in Florida and expects to be ready in time for spring training.
Nexdef'd man.
I think this was like Pre-Winter Meetings.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Preemptive surgery after he heard about Lego having issues with DL
He want’s to avoid that like the plague
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
So...
How good do you feel if your a pitcher in the NL central and Pujols is gone to the AL and possibly Fielder?
Pretty good I bet.
If you like baseball...you'll love my ROKU !!!
But if you're a pitcher in the NL Central, there's a chance that you're Zach Greinke.
Which would kind of suck haha.
by StopSpe on Dec 10, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So long as you're not on the Cardinals or Brewers.
Or if you’re on the Astros, and Prince signs with Seattle. So for like half the teams, yes. Of course, if you’re on the Pirates, you probably don’t feel that good anyway.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
no, fook yea real shortstop!
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i would think.
we need to resign punto as well. schumaker will be super utility (yes guys, we will be resigning him).
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
the only way schu makes it is we don't sign an outfielder
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Crap, I just realized he's the Plan B for RF while Craig is out.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
I'm afraid this is false.
…it should be true though
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
It's at least 50-50 that we resign him.
Already have Descalso, Greene, and Furc. Mo is supposed to be talking to Punto as well. Idk if Mo will bring back those four AND Schumaker. More likely we get Punto or Schu, one or the other.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Mo no longer views him as a second baseman though.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Is that for sure?
If that’s true, then I think YesWeOquendo has to be right. If he’s not a 2B, I don’t think he makes the team as a 5th OF.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
I would hope not.
He really doesn’t make any sense for this team.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
again, i don't think schumaker would be thought of as a middle infielder.
we could still have….
12-man pitching staff
8 starters (molina, berkman, descalso/punto, freese, furcal, holliday, jay, craig)
bench: descalso/punto, schumaker, cruz/anderson, chambers, greene
obviously the chances we bring skip back decline if we sign another outfielder, which i’m in support of.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
in this case skip serves as both fourth middle infielder (3rd if you consider DD as freese's backup)
and fifth outfielder.
not supporting bringing him back, just simply outlining his potential role.
"He’s not a great golden god come from the sky. He’s a fucking baseball player."
-the red baron
by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 10, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
If the team really won't play him at 2B, then yea.
I still think <50%, but only because I think they’ll sign an OF. If not, then he’s probably on the team.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Though I could also see them going with Hamilton or Matt Carpenter over him.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
descalso, then greene against LHP
and we won the world series.
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 10, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Schumaker talks like its a given that he'll be on the team.
Who should tell him?
yes, I know that he probably is coming back. He just better not be the opening day RF’er.
Sign Cody Ross
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather have schu back than theriot
just saying
by hr on Dec 10, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
#FreeTylerGreene
#HappySeason #SadOffSeason
by The Continental on Dec 10, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Since we're over 1,000 comments and IE is balking at this fact,
here’s a Furcal main post for you folks.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
cards best lineup as of now?
1. Furcal SS
2. Jay CF
3. Holliday LF
4. Berkman 1B
5. Craig RF
6. Freese 3B
7. Molina C
8. Greene/Descalso platoon 2B
still need to go out and get beltran now
still looking sexy
although I wonder who will play RF for the first month or so of the season?
by hr on Dec 10, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I hope they bat Craig or Freese 2nd over Jay.
Jay’s like the worst bat in the lineup, beside maybe the 2B platoon.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
He was awful for the most part late in the season but wasn't that bad throughout
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
More of a comment on the rest of the lineup than a criticism of Jay, tbh.
Chief Economist of Tyler Greene Fanclub
by Cardinals645 on Dec 10, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Matheny would bat Furcal leadoff
at least, I hope not
11!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 10, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Good morning all, how did Pujols news conference go?
Last night we were very fortunate here to have crystal clear skies, so I was able to witness the the total eclipse of the moon, grabbed my thermos of coffee and went out to watch the show, temperature was 25 or so, the celestial show started around 9:50pm or so and was complete around 1120pm. It was pretty awesome to watch, it was definitely worth it, course it helped that it took place on a weekend..
by Tuning in from Korea on Dec 10, 2011 4:35 PM EST reply actions
peeps who saw seem to agree
“awkward”
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Or new thread dumbass
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Dec 10, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
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