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Dan Le Batard's Canadian Girlfriend: Albert Pujols Is 33, Or Something

ATLANTA - FILE:  Albert Pujols #5 of the St. Louis Cardinals against the Atlanta Braves at Turner Field on September 9 2010 in Atlanta Georgia. It was announced that the St. Louis Cardinals and their first baseman Albert Pujols failed to reach a contract agreement by Pujols' self-declared deadline leaving open the chance he will become a free agent after this season February 16 2011. (Photo by Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images)

It has come to my attention that Miami Herald columnist and guy-who-frustratingly-isn't-Tony-Kornheiser on Pardon the Interruption Dan Le Batard is in possession of incontrovertible evidence that Albert Pujols is older than he says he is. The evidence comes from his girlfriend, who is really hot, and always ready to make out, if you know what I mean, like, banging-wise, and—look, she's from Canada, you couldn't possibly have met her, but maybe—oh, now that I check her schedule she's not going to be back in town until that time when you're going to be gone. Crap. 

Don't worry about clicking the link, I'll quote the damning part: 

That's insanity, especially since, like a lot of teams, the Marlins believe Pujols to be older than the 31 he claims to be... [cut] [N]ow they're offering nine to Pujols, whose age they don't even know.

There are a few other times when he says everybody knows it, and it's super cool but I don't want to quote too much. Did I forget to mention that Dan Le Batard's Canadian girlfriend works with the Marlins? She's—well, I can't really tell you what she does, it's kind of secret. Anyway, everybody knows Albert Pujols is like 50 there, because of—she showed the evidence to Dan, but he promised he wouldn't show anybody else. But don't worry about it, everybody knows it.

I told you that the number of people who knew it was "all people," and that they had very important baseball jobs, right? 

Star-divide

Apparently Albert Pujols AgeGate, for the first time in six or seven years, is going to be a Gate again this offseason. We ran a piece on Baseball Nation yesterday in which Rob Neyer, the first sabermetrician I ever read, and Jason Brannon, whom I don't know but is apparently a Pujols birther in some just-kidding-but-seriously way, ran with much the same innuendo, and now that Le Batard has gotten pageviews for his trouble and run up the Google Trend you can expect to see more pieces about this in the next few weeks. 

The frustrating thing about it is that it might absolutely be true. Albert Pujols could well be older than he says he is, and it could be an open secret throughout baseball. It's just that every time this comes up all the Miami Herald columnists who supposedly know exactly what everybody knows refuse to be actual journalists and tell us what or how they know. 

Right now, this is all we know about Albert Pujols being older than he says he is:

1. He's from a place where people have falsified their birth certificates in the past.

2. His wife is older than he is, and he looks older than he is. 

3. He was great when he was 21, but was not widely scouted when he was 18.

4. Dan Le Batard and some number of other sportswriters and sports-talker-abouters have heard that other people think he's 33 or 34. 

If just one of the Le Batards and sub-Le Batards who are convinced he's 34 because Everybody Knows It, many of whom went to j-school much longer than I did without failing out of it, leaked the information he'd ostensibly gotten from an MLB front office, it would be news, and we would know something we didn't already know. Right now it's just the meaningless, accidental amplification of a rumor.

This isn't a case where we've gotten more evidence about this question over the years, it's just a case in which the people who believe it, after shutting up for a few years, have gotten louder again. In the absence of some insider or hanger-on willing to leak the actual reasons they believe what they believe, columns like Le Batard's and thought exercises like ours are basically irrelevant. 

I know we're inured, by now, to the unnamed source, but what's being done here isn't at all what Joe Strauss does. Joe Strauss might tell us, after suggesting we check in at the P-D round midnight, that anonymous Cardinals sources confirm that a statue of Joe Strauss really delivering the zinger he's always wanted to deliver to Tony La Russa while everybody cheers and loves him, finally, will be unveiled outside Busch Stadium tomorrow. If he had information about Albert Pujols's age he'd probably tell us that unnamed sources confirm that Albert Pujols is 33 years old, and give us some idea of how they know that.

That's all right—sources can't always be named, for various legitimate reasons. But Dan Le Batard is telling us that unnamed sources with important jobs think Albert Pujols is 34. If you can't tell us who your source is, and you can't tell us what your source knows, or how, you haven't told us anything. That's not journalism yet. 

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That's one big drawback of a constant newscycle

people just seem to say stuff because they want to pump up controversy and pageviews/ratings whether or not they have things like evidence or facts. Things that you used to need to write a story.

by dmiles on Nov 22, 2011 9:29 AM EST reply actions  

Not really.

He purposely uses the verb “believes” which means he is simply reporting an opinion some in the Marlins organization have and saying that a lot of other folks in baseball also believe Pujols is older than he is. There is nothing false in this. It is simply sharing the opinion of a some people.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm curious...

about a few different matters within the context of this situation. It may not necessarily be libel since he’s not saying this is absolutely true without evidence, but could Pujols (were he to actually be driven to acknowledge something as meaningless as a Dan Le Betard article/tweet/diarrhea of the mouth – whatever this instance is) claim tortious interference of business given that one or two or three years put a huge affect on the amount of money Albert Pujols can earn on the FA market?

I know nothing of law, but this is something I was thinking about, those who are of a legal-mind can set me straight.

by mynameistyler on Nov 22, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

to the IHB signal!

VEB TEAM…. ASSEMBLE!

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

VEB team sues Aranathor for trademark violations

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

but, but

i’m in the team…

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

this is like zero calorie coke suing coke

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

or like Paul McCartney suing the Beatles

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

um

It’s ON the team, Brit. Learn the language.

by hangingfromatree on Nov 22, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

waaaaiit.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Reccy rec rec

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Tortious Inteference with Prospective Economic Advantage

A claim is really unlikely. Albert will inevitably sign a gigantic contract and in order to state a claim would need to show that the article actually interfered, which would be really hard to show. I would not take that case.

by OCCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah and this, too.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Tortious Interference

= sexual misdemeanors with Allen Craig’s pet?

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Nov 22, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Mmmm...

Deviant tort practices….

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

sounds like a legal term for cloaca-blocking, to me.

Yuck.

"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11

by SleepyCA on Nov 22, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

generally, a defamation suit will not succeed if the

The allegation was a “matter of public concern,” unless you prove the defamer did so with actual malice – usually, that you actually knew it was false.

Very likely, Albert Pujols’s true age is a matter of public concern. He’s a celebrity, journalists write stories about him.

The next question is whether this idea would extend to some tortious interference claim. I imagine it would, but I can’t think of a particular case. The closest analogy I know came when Jerry Falwell sued Hustler Magazine for infliction of emotional distress after Hustler put out a satirical interview nominally with falwell in which “falwell” claimed he’d had sex with his own mother in an outhouse. This is what Supreme Court Justices think about all day. Anyway, this principle lurks out there, mostly for defamation cases, but potentially applicable to similar cases.

So, maybe.

ignorance without the bliss - aimee mann

by tom s. on Nov 22, 2011 2:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

no. any set amount of money he claims he could lose is not reasonably expected because the FA is so wonky

to succeed with that kind of tort – interference with contract or with contractual expectancy, he would have to show that he had a reasonable expectation for a specific deal and that but for the improper interference, he would have gotten that deal.

super unlikely.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank you...

to all three of you, for the information. I was just curious, it sounded like something worth asking!

by mynameistyler on Nov 22, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, in many states (like mine)

the act of interference has to be independently tortious, i.e., it has to be actionable as a separate tort (Lanham Act, misappropriation, fraud, illegal boycott, defamation, etc.).

So, here, the tortious interference claims would fail for the same reason a defamation claim would.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 22, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

yay legal terms of art!

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Effin ZoomZoom

Promise me you will never do this as a journalist. Ethics is more important than page views, papers sold, etc.

IHeartIHeartBoog
gibby45 is one of the less creepy people on this blog. - IHeartBoog

by Gibby45 on Nov 22, 2011 9:42 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

I love this comment

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO

by VolsnCards5 on Nov 22, 2011 6:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Isn't Danny Amedola

33 years old now too? Wasn’t Albert the first baseman on his Little League World Series team?

IHeartIHeartBoog
gibby45 is one of the less creepy people on this blog. - IHeartBoog

by Gibby45 on Nov 22, 2011 9:43 AM EST reply actions  

Are you serious?

Would love to see a source if you are

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 22, 2011 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

If you're referring to the Rams WR

he’s 26. So I hope you’re right about that second part. Albert is actually 26.

by dmiles on Nov 22, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Danny Almonte did lie about his age in Little League

but it was to say he was born in 1989 instead of 1987. So if Albert is the same age, he’s 24. That would be freaking awesome.

by dmiles on Nov 22, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Danny Almonte

That’s the dude. Struck out 10 twelve year olds, shaved, did an Old Spice commercial, and finished his perfect game. Must have been Albert’s cousin at first base.

IHeartIHeartBoog
gibby45 is one of the less creepy people on this blog. - IHeartBoog

by Gibby45 on Nov 22, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Most impressive stat of the day

Between the 2005-2007 draft classes, The Cardinals have had the most players reach the big leagues with 24. The average being 12.5.

Baseball America

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 22, 2011 9:55 AM EST reply actions  

mmmmm coffee. cups of coffee.

/tongue-in-cheek

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Brief call-ups

Sure, a lot have been short-timers. However, given our reluctance most years to make Sept. call-ups, I’d be surprised if it is more than the average (could be less). Doubling league average, even if say 6 of those are ‘Pete Kozmas’ (instead of 3) is really impressive.

Without this kind of development Pujols resigning wouldn’t even be a consideration. We wouldn’t be able to afford him and field a competitive team. While I believe that proposition is arguable going forward, it isn’t a wildly unrealistic stance. Big props to the talent development folks.

by Enigma35 on Nov 22, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

well if one keeps employing gritty veterans, they don't stick around for long and/or are prone to injury.

needs a lot of young guys to fill in the blanks. most other teams just run the same guys out every game and have a set number of bench guys.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

every year, rather.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Cards crush the Rays 24-7...

except their 7 includes Matt Moore, David Price, Longoria, Desmond Jennings, and Hellickson…

Ours includes Brian Broderick, Andrew Brown, Jess Todd, Clay Mortenson, Pete Kozma, Steve Hill, Adron, Tony Cruz, Mark Hamilton, Sugar Shane, Peej, David Carpenter, Stav, Bryan Anderson…. My god that’s a mess of garbage.

I would trade Garcia, Rasmus, Craig, Jay and the other 20 for any one of Jennings, Moore, Longoria, or Price.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd do it for Moore or Longoria...

probably not for the other two.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Four cost-controlled legitimate starters for one player. . .

is a bad trade. Unless that player is a younger, relatively cost-controlled Albert Pujols.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

a good pitcher with endurance issues
an underachieving prospect at a scarce position
a slugger without a position in the near term on this team
a low ceiling hitter at a scarce position

these are all good pieces. all are replaceable pieces, though. none can touch 7 WAR by themselves like Longoria or Moore or Price.

by BVHeck on Nov 22, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Still a bad trade

By 2011 Fangraphs WAR:

Garcia: 3.6
Rasmus: 1.3
Craig: 2.6
Jay: 2.8
TOTAL: 10.3

Longoria: 6.1
Price: 4.7
Moore: INCOMPLETE

Craig was a part-timer and has a lot of WAR upside. Rasmus was traded mid-season (granted, he was bad after that and hurt).

Saying players are replaceable is not the same thing as actually replacing them, and ignores the cost of replacing them, either with talent (through a trade) or with $$$ (through free agency).

And FWIW, Moore might become the next Dwight Gooden, or he might become the next Mark Fidyrich, TINSTAAP and all that.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

but what about the replacements for all those players?

i’d love longoria to play center field, backup centerfield, starting pitcher and bench bat all at once, but that just ain’t gonna happen.

by BVHeck on Nov 22, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

That's kind of what Longoria and Moore are...

6+ win players controlled for 5-6 years. In the case of Longoria he forfeited tens of millions – his salary might need to be increased just to keep his morale up.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really.

Pujols’ prime = 8-10 WAR player
Longoria = 6-8 WAR player (he’s actually never topped 7.6 WAR according to Fangraphs).

Moore = ???

Moore doesn’t even really belong in the conversation, as he is not yet a proven big leaguer. Sure, he looks like he will be, both from his minor league peripherals and his cup of coffee in the majors, but he is not even close to a sure thing. Trading for Moore involves trading for a lot of risk that is not present with Pujols and Longoria.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

If the objective is to field the best team in the league...

you always take your chances with someone like Moore. His upside is HOFer, and he’s not really even much of a risk given his age, stuff, track record etc…

Allen Craig and Jon Jay are nice players, but you could sign a Carlos Pena and Coco Crisp and replicate their production.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

Sincerely,

Rick Ankiel
Mark Fidyrich
and a bunch of other guys who were all that and a bag of chips until they weren’t

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Brett Wallace

Can’t miss bat.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 22, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Tony LaRussa

Can’t miss shortstop.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 22, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

This is the best criticism you can come up with?

Mark Prior (the Titanic of starting pitchers)
Brien Taylor
Jason Isringhausen (the starter)
Bill Pulsipher
Dontrelle WIllis
JR Richard
John Stuper

I’m sure I’m missing some other obvious ones

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

his list of can't missed prospects who failed

is missing the ones that hit?

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 22, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

A list of pitchers that flamed out...

whether it’s two pitchers long or seven doesn’t really “prove” anything. Go look at BA’s list of top pitching prospects for any given year. The top, top guys hit more than they miss, and Matt Moore is as top shelf as it gets.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't subscribe to BA

and their website doesn’t seem to be too user friendly.

Feel free to post the top 10 Pitching prospect from oh, we’ll say 99-09. We’ll throw out 2010-11 just because those guys should still be in the minors.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 22, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know where that is...

but it would be something like:

Mark Prior
Felix Hernandez
Beckett
Ankiel
Scott Kazmir
Dice-K

Of course my memory is skewed toward guys who made it and are famous…

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

your list of there

contains a 50% success rate.

Unless you’re counting Dice-K as a success. But I’m not counting 2.6 WAR per year a success for someone who was suppose to be a top Pitcher in the Majors.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 22, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

All those guys were successes...

with the exception of Ankiel. Even Prior was a success.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a sample size of 6, means nothing

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes there are, he's just a pitcher

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

ahem

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-bright-side-of-losing-santana/

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

And to summarize. . .

there is a 1-3% chance of pitching prospects being a “Star”, and a 30% of the pitching prospect being a bust.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

that's a good one

Bust – 30.8
Contributor – 61.5%
Everyday – 3.8 %
star – 3.8%

So um, TINSTAAPP. And there is a 1 in 3 chance you just traded two starting caliber outfielders for a bust.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 22, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Well the outfielders obviously have a chance to bust as well

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

at this point

I wouldn’t call craig and Jay “prospects” But your point still stands.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 22, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

You're comparing apples and oranges...

Moore isn’t similar to, say, Ryan Anderson. And Craig and Jay are completely replaceable on the FA market. Moore is virtually impossible to acquire for a team like the Cardinals.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know what that has to do with anything

It would cost 10 million per year to get a player as good as Jay or Craig on the free agent market. It might be harder to find a player like Moore, but that doesn’t make his expected value any higher.

Moore is no different than Shelby or Martinez.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

He's more advanced and has more experience...

and more pitches and he throws them better and he’s a lefty… other than that they’re the same.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

He has similar tools to Jaime, except he throws a bit harder

Jaime has and had more movement on his pitches.

Shelby and Martinez each throw a lot harder than Moore.

Scouting is a very imprecise science, and I see no evidence that Moore is in a different category than any of the other top 10 pitchers in a given year.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

A bit harder?

Moore touches 98 starting and hit 101 at the futures game.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 22, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

All of the scouting reports I've read online says he sits at 92-94

Jaime sits at 89-91, so yeah, a bit harder. Well actually, that’s like .75 runs per 9 harder, but it’s nothing that drastic.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

No, Moore definitely sits 96ish

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Jaime's had a 3.50 xFIP so far in the majors

In ~360 innings. What are the odds that Moore does that? Not even Kazmir or Ankiel were that good.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll take the under...

Garcia has been helped by park and the era. Kazmir and Ankiel were as good or better until they crashed.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Jaime's xFIP hasn't been helped by park

Unless you think Busch has a strong K or BB factor. You’re right about era, but that still doesn’t put Kazmir or Ankiel on the same level as Jaime so far. Ankiel’s one season was a 4 xFIP, Kazmir’s career is well over 4 and in his best years, adjusting for era and league, he was a little bit better than Jaime.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

No one can make contact...

with the glare off the arch.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Busch III actually suppresses K's

"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11

by SleepyCA on Nov 22, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

couple of reasons

Physical dimensions influence player performance; difference in batter’s eyes, pitcher’s mounds, etc. Large foul ground areas cause more foul balls to be caught, causing more “BIP” outs that might have been strike 2 (leading to potential strike 3 or ball 4) in a different park. Also, atmospheric effects can change the way balls move; petco and at&t are notorious.

"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11

by SleepyCA on Nov 22, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!

by a fink on Nov 22, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Matt Moore is clearly superior...

to the median top 10 pitching prospect in any given year.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, so what, that gives him a 10% chance of star and a 25% chance of bust?

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

No much higher...

the relationship of “prospectiness” and superstardom is not linear. The top prospects who have as much experience as he does, at his age, with proper handling by an enlightened organization… The failure rate is exceptionally small.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Is any of that not just pure conjecture?

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not a rigorously tested claim...

mainly because I have a day job, but eyeballing it, it doesn’t appear that prospects with the experience level, track record, and scouting profile of Moore fail more than they succeed.

You definitely don’t want to lump him in with the median top 10 prospect in any given year…

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

No, it's a zero tested claim

I have no problem with claiming that Moore is better than the median top 10 prospect in a given year.

I do have a problem with you claiming that the bust/star rate is nonlinear, and that Moore should defy the rules of pitchers.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

This is an unsubstantiated claim

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

proper handling by an elightened organization?

WTF those that mean?

So if we bring up an example of a pitcher who fails, you can just pass it off as incorrect handling by a non-enlightened organization?

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 22, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think there is such thing as correct handling for a pitcher

You kind of just have to pray he doesn’t get injured.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

here is a list of John Sickels top 50

from 2007

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry

here is a list of the top 50 pitching prospects from 2007

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Things I thought I never thought I'd read.

Let’s make it a true daily double, Alex.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Are you high?

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait

So you would trade Jaime, Rasmus, Craig AND Jay for Jennings????

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Nov 22, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Well no...

I got carried away. Moore and Longo yes…

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't even do that for Longo, dude

Jaime and Rasmus are 3 WAR going forward. Jay and Craig are 2 WAR.

Longo is like 6 WAR. What’s the service time/ contract status on each of those players. It would have to heavily favor Longo for the deal to work.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

suck it, joe strauss.

#hpgf

ignorance without the bliss - aimee mann

by tom s. on Nov 22, 2011 1:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Everytime I see this

I think, what is a hippogryph hashtag doing here?

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

oh, this needs a picture of fluffy saying "why yes, my dominican brith certificate shows I am 37."

Then the shades come down. “Deal with it.”

ignorance without the bliss - aimee mann

by tom s. on Nov 22, 2011 1:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

by fluffy, i mean buckbeak.

gah.

ignorance without the bliss - aimee mann

by tom s. on Nov 22, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

One thing is for certain

Albert Pujols is better at playing baseball than the majority of 33 year-olds

by dmiles on Nov 22, 2011 9:59 AM EST reply actions  

majority?

How about….


Albert Pujols is better at playing baseball than all 33 year-olds

Really. Is there a 33 year old you know of that is better than he is?

Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.

- John Wayne

by Tackle Box on Nov 22, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Is Dan the Bastards girlfriend

the one wh thinks we are all a little bit racist?

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 10:12 AM EST reply actions  

All this Pujols is older than he really is talk

Will actually help push down Pujols value and should help us. If anyone knows Pujols real age it is the Cardinals

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 22, 2011 10:12 AM EST reply actions  

I heard they took a core sample before the last contract!

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree

Amping up this old story only helps the Cardinals. It also gives would-be suitors a built-in excuse to give to the media and their teams’ fans if they can’t land Albert.

(I don’t think Mo would fall so low as to use the “age question” as an excuse if Albert went elsewhere.)

by olddomination on Nov 22, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Like I said

it’s a conspiracy.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Sidney Crosby rocking the Derek Holland stache.

are they all sharing the same pencil

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 10:17 AM EST reply actions  

Oh, I wish I had a pencil-thin mustache

the Boston Blackie kind.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

A two-toned Ricky Ricardo jacket

And an autographed picture of Andy Devine

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

by MeSoHornsby on Nov 22, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh I remember bein' buck toothed and skinny

Writin’ fan letters to Sky’s niece Penny

Torty Craig, we hardly knew ye.

by KlausChadman on Nov 22, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I see what you did there.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's your evidence

b.q. Dan Le Batard’s Canadian girlfriend who has a top secret job with the Marlins cut Albert Pujols in half and counted the rings

by dmiles on Nov 22, 2011 10:18 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Maybe I'm being naive,

but I’m willing to bet the Cardinals spent a few grand on an investigation and did their due diligence before they gave him a seven year contract worth $100M.

"He probably misses his old glasses."

by Alxfritz on Nov 22, 2011 10:26 AM EST reply actions  

true but they were also offering a 24 yo that contract, a 31 yo leaves a little less margin for error

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

If he was twenty-four in 2004, and twenty-eleven in 2011...

See where I’m going with this, guys?

Twenty-twelve in twenty-twelve!!!

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Science!!!

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

they said there would be no math!

"He ran hard, but he didn't run fast. He runs like he's mad at the ground." - opposing broadcaster describing Yadi's speed.

by TNTinCO on Nov 22, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

the mayan prophecy! it is true! and albert pujols

Is the Ender of Days!

ignorance without the bliss - aimee mann

by tom s. on Nov 22, 2011 1:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Not a bad nickname, or at least a good way to finish an AP HR call

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

apocalypse clause

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm picking up what you're laying down!

11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 22, 2011 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

As long as he was in his mid-20's

Give or take a few years, it wouldn’t really matter. There wasn’t anyone claiming Albert was in his 30’s in 2004, so there wouldn’t be the need for an “investigation” over a year or two at that time.

by olddomination on Nov 22, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Obviously you've never worked for the Houston Astros.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Mitchell & Ness Black Friday Sale

$100 Jerseys
Yes, All Jerseys* (FB link)
Also, everything else will be 40% off.
Sale runs from Friday through Monday.

*Mesh BP jerseys are $80 list, so they’ll be $48, not $100.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Nov 22, 2011 10:29 AM EST reply actions   3 recs

Oh my.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

It's the pleats, people!

DONT ACT LIKE YOURE NOT IMPRESSED

"He probably misses his old glasses."

by Alxfritz on Nov 22, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

oh damn

I wish I hadn’t seen this post

my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Nov 22, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Or an authentic Ozzie jersey (they have BP, but still!)

Also, I’m 99% sure I’ll grab the Gibson ‘67 road jersey, and maybe a Maris ’67 home jersey. And then I’ll eat crackers for dinner for a few weeks to make up the cash outflow.

Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?

by lightbulb on Nov 22, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I hate and love you for linking this.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 22, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

oh my.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

this is going to be expensive.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

...

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

That's the one I'm eyeing.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 22, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

What do you all think of the '56 with


just the Cardinals on the front?

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Would be funny

if that’s what it was, if the buttons were just silkscreened on.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, yeah, it doesn't have the BotB on it

but I still like it.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't see that at first

that makes it even better.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

i like the one i posted more,

but i like that script.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Not a fan of that stripe running all around the front of the shirt

or on the arms.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, is that a zipper?

Looks more like pajamas.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, I want the 44 , not the 46.

Also, it looks like sizes are going to be an issue. Sale starts Thanksgiving evening, 10 my time. I’m buying right away.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 22, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

twss.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 22, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Great. I just had to look up "twss".

She’s always coming up with the weirdest things to say. And they’re mostly non-sequitors. I need to meet her.

by hangingfromatree on Nov 22, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

but to your question,

a small and a 5x won’t fit me.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 22, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I like the general look of these uniforms but I prefer the stripes closer together like in the 1944 one:

Also, they apparently didn’t use the wider-set stripe for long because the 1951 away jersey has it similar to the 1944:

New Birds-on-Bat logo too. I dig the zipper.

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Dan Le Batard

I think you are being very unfair to Dan Le Batard.

ALL journalists are hypocritical gas bags, and sports journalists, with an intellectual chip on their shoulders the size of the New York Times building, are the worst of all.

P.S. This applies equally to anyone who has set foot in a journalism school, whether they were discharged with or without a diploma.

by VideoSavant55 on Nov 22, 2011 10:35 AM EST reply actions  

Maybe so.

But that doesn’t mean that they should report the opinions of anonymous sources presumably within the Marlins organization without provided any information on how or why said sources hold said opinions.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I know a guy who is extremely important and knows lots of important people and they do important things even in their off time.

He and his important friends believe bgh is a doody head.

Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.

- John Wayne

by Tackle Box on Nov 22, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

HYPERBOLE IS A TYPE OF METAPHOR

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeesh, generalize much?

I worked as a journalist for the first couple years of my career, and with the exception of one idiot, it was the best group of people I’ve ever worked with.

by Forsch31 on Nov 22, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I know a journalist personally

and he seems like a nice enough guy. But then, he tends to have credible sources, and to quote them personally.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, danup is a hypocritical gas bag!

so full of himself too!

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 22, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

you've never set foot in a J-school?

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 23, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Damn

I was going to ask what girlfriendup thinks about a famous person’s age.

by mojowo11 on Nov 23, 2011 3:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Dan Le Bastard?

Oh, sorry…I’m informed by annonymous sources that some insiders think there is a typo in my subject line. I apologize for my alleged error.

Anyway, this isn’t the same Dan Le Batard who wanted to dismiss every home run that Rick Ankiel had hit, ever, because he used HGH while rehabbing his elbow as a pitcher, is it?

Oh, it is. Well, carry on then. D.GOOCH

by Donald Gooch on Nov 22, 2011 10:39 AM EST reply actions  

ive always referred to him simply as

the lebatard

PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE!! update - .341/.430/.621!!!!
Public Relations Officer of the Tyler Greene Fan Club.

@StashMusial and The Houston Sports Counterplot

by Stash Musial on Nov 22, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

That seems articley redundant.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

how about leotard?

11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 22, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

used HGH when it wasn't against the rules of MLB

(yes I’m aware that while he did have a prescription from ligament specialist, that specialist may have indulged in illegal actives)

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 22, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

actually

can I put the lid back on that jar?

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 22, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

too late

STEROIDSSTEROIDSSTEROIDS

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

the name is french for The Bastard so call him what you like

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

The internet is for porn...

2012 MLB All Star Game FanFest: July 6-10 at the Kansas City Convention Center! Ask me for more info!

by mtzxc on Nov 22, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Dan LeBatard is a feces flinging assmonkey.

I refuse to read or even consider the shit he spews. One of the top five most useless assholes in all of sports “journalism”

In my opinion of course.

by RollBirdsRoll on Nov 22, 2011 10:59 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

you can't argue with blockquotes
Dan LeBatard is a feces flinging assmonkey.
I refuse to read or even consider the shit he spews. One of the top five most useless assholes in all of sports "journalism"

In my opinion of course.

linky

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Nov 22, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I was skeptical at first

but now, without a shadow of a doubt, believe this to be true.

Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.

- John Wayne

by Tackle Box on Nov 22, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

He looked pretty young

When he came up. Curly bleached hair all greased up. He was a little chubby back then too.

by Cheeseballs on Nov 22, 2011 11:08 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

i always suspected that was the beginning of his and Yadi's friendship

they’re both “big boned”

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I say that...

After reading the work of just the other sportswriters at the PD. Goold sticks out like a sore thumb. Or really, the one digit on your hands you didn’t actually smash while trying to hammer something.

by DiscoJer on Nov 22, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

ot every now and then i give good advice

like don’t install a new glass sliding door over rotted wood. despite the parties having the funds to rectify the situation.

so now i learn of a steady leak from the exterior of the second floor into the interior of the ground floor. along a load-bearing exterior wall. i am shockingly unsympathetic to this plight.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 11:14 AM EST reply actions  

One might assume

this advice was given to your parents?

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

you are welcome to believe that

;)

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I have generally given great advice, too, but it's usually been ignored

LIke the time I told Jocketty not to draft Kozma in the first round. Or when I told Bush that Cheney was making up the stories about WMDs being in Iraq. Or that time I told that girl not to go into the abandoned building because there was a serial killer in there. But did they listen? Hunh?. No, of course not. Because THEY’RE ALL IDIOTS!

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

/politics

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

But just for fun

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I wonder if Vox Sports Blog Media Nation

has permission to use the image in their new 503 error message.

#HappySeason

by The Continental on Nov 22, 2011 11:28 AM EST reply actions  

and i wonder if they're purposefully dropping the 503s ever so often

just to show off their image and logos

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Nov 22, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

we should really stop driving traffic to pathetic attention seeking "writers" like that

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Nov 22, 2011 11:44 AM EST reply actions  

i'm going to go read Chass's article

about how Stan Musial is a racist. Happy belated b-day, Stan!

by BVHeck on Nov 22, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm guessing that the confusion is caused by....

… the conversion from Canadian years to American years. I’m pretty sure they use the metric system up there.

by Buckeye Redbird on Nov 22, 2011 12:11 PM EST reply actions  

Baseball America has posted its St. Louis Cardinals Top 10 Prospect List
10. Jordan Swagerty, RHP
9. Matt Adams, 1B
8. Eduardo Sanchez, RHP
7. Lance Lynn, RHP
6. Tyrell Jenkins, RHP
5. Kolten Wong, 2B
4. Zack Cox, 3B
3. Oscar Taveras, OF
2. Carlos Martinez, RHP
1. Shelby Miller, RHP

LINK

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 12:22 PM EST reply actions  

Cox above Wong?

Not sure if I agree with that…but still, one heck of a system!

2012 MLB All Star Game FanFest: July 6-10 at the Kansas City Convention Center! Ask me for more info!

by mtzxc on Nov 22, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. . .

Taveras is way too high. Flip flop Taveras and Lynn and the list makes more sense IMHO (although I admittedly perhaps value getting actual major league hitters out too highly – by all rights, Wong and Cox should probabaly be higher than Lynn).

Not a big believer in Matt Adams, either. I’d probably replace him with Lil’ Carp.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

in terms of certainty to make the majors

Wong is certainly higher. But I think success and upside are heavily weighted in these. Taveras could be great

by BVHeck on Nov 22, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Why wouldn't Taveras be ranked above Wong?

He’s a potential 5 WAR bat who just had a pretty remarkable season and might even be able to hack it defensively in center field. Wong is probably a better bet to contribute at the major league level, but we already know what kind of player he’s going to be — he has limited potential. Taveras could be a superstar level talent.

FWIW — There are a lot of people here who are WAY too high on Kolton Wong after 6 weeks of good play. I still think that Cox is a better prospect, as do a lot of scouts. I also think that Rosenthal and Jenkins might both be better prospects than Wong at this point. Both have ace type stuff and have been dominant for short stretches this past seasons.

Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.

by fourstick on Nov 22, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

It's a debate...

over the relative merits of upside vs. floor. Seems like everything I’ve read indicates that Taveras is going to have to figure out how to swing differently to make the majors and he’ll in all likelihood play a corner OF spot. Wong is all set to be an up the middle player with a decent bat. If I had to take one of these two players in a draft… I’d take Wong.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Isn't that pretty much the opposite of what you're arguing in the above thread?

The reason the Rays have graduated so many great prospects is that they take the high upside players. It helps to have the top picks in the draft too, but you can take polished talent and trade upside for higher predictability at any point in the draft.

Drafting based on strictly floor would basically indicate never drafting any pitcher, ever. The floor is basically zero with every pitcher. I know that’s not the argument you’re making, but I find it interesting that you’re arguing for trading good major league players for shots at superstar talents in one thread and then arguing for taking a “safe” route with a high floor (say major league regular 1 WAR player) in another thread. I don’t see much at all in common with those arguments, yet you’re making both of them.

Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.

by fourstick on Nov 22, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Well...

in the above thread we’re talking about specific players – Moore and Longoria aren’t prospects. They are actual star grade players.

In this case I just think Taveras is so far away and given his specific limitations, he’s not higher than Wong. The average corner outfielder this year was something like Jay Bruce. You have to hit a ton to be an average corner outfielder. And why are we so sure Wong doesn’t have something like an all star ceiling? The BP prospect guy threw out a “Todd Walker with a good glove” comp…

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Moore is a star grade player?

He’s made less than 10 starts in the big leagues. TEN. Sure, he’s got all the tools, but so does Jaime Garcia, and he’s got 2 full years of starts under his belt. I don’t think Moore’s proven much more than Shelby Miller at this point, imo, and there’s still the injury issues with pitchers. I’m not trading two regulars for Matt Moore, especially with all the pitching in our farm system.

Is Todd Walker with a good glove an all star? His best season was a 112 OPS+. Maybe that’s an all-star on a good team in a bad year for second baseman. Wong has been compared to a lot of other guys just like that: Wally Backman being the one I remember most candidly.

I don’t know where all this information on Taveras is coming from, but I suspect that you’re reading a bit too much into this “max effort” swing that Keith Law keeps talking about. I’m not even sure what the hell he means by that, but I’m guessing Matt Adams would also have a similar effort swing and few on this blog seem to doubt him crushing balls to the AB brewery at this point

Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.

by fourstick on Nov 22, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Except. . .
I’m not trading two regulars for Matt Moore, especially with all the pitching in our farm system.

Guayzimi wants to trade four regulars (well four regularish), not two.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

he doesn't actually want to.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Well he's just insane

I’m pointing out that I’m not trading Craig and Jay for just Matt Moore. I better get another good player back too.

Now, would I trade Craig and Jay for Mike Trout? That I might have to do.

Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.

by fourstick on Nov 22, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, this.

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen

by Cardinals645 on Nov 22, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

For realz

He can hit triple digits

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO

by VolsnCards5 on Nov 22, 2011 6:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think Taveras swing is only in question

Because the scouts say it is. They aren’t actually basing it off any objective analysis, so I’m not going to put that much faith in it.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm kinda in agreement with this.

I don’t like disagreeing with scouts a lot, but I’ve yet to see any of them define exactly what the issue with his swing is mechanically. I just hear a lot of jargon and vague assertions and cliches, nothing with any real hard evidence.

Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.

by fourstick on Nov 22, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Where has Taveras been touted as a 5.0 WAR bat?

Not being argumentative, really looking for information. I know that he’s been young for his league and performed well, but his stat line4s make him look a bit slappy to be a potential 5.0 WAR bat at the major league level.

Granted, I’ve not seen him play, so maybe he’s one of those guys that will develop power as he ages.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

He swings really hard and makes a lot of contact.

Doesn’t strike out much. Lots of line drives and can drive the ball out on a line. Has a body that could develop some yet as he’s only 19, and he just finished slugging .584 in 387 PA’s in A ball. Lots and lots of doubles. Decent walk rate for a young players (32 BB in those 387 PA’s)

Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.

by fourstick on Nov 22, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I still think it's a legitimate question that Taveras is a future tweener.

He won’t be able to maintain a .440 BABIP in the majors, and there are doubts regarding his power hitting. Since he can’t play CF (that I know of), where would that leave him?

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen

by Cardinals645 on Nov 22, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

He played CF in the games I saw him play for QC.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea I thought he used to, but it seems like everyone has more or less settled that he's a RF in the majors.

It’s like the opposite of Zack Cox. Cox has never played 2B, but everyone wants to talk about him playing 2B. Taveras has played CF, but nobody talks about him playing CF. Were his CF games that bad?

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen

by Cardinals645 on Nov 22, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Cox hit worse than a lot of people hoped, so now they hope he can switch positions

Taveras hit way better than a lot of people really believe, so they think he can’t possibly not have to switch positions.

This is only half sarcasm, I think weird thought processes like this actually happen.

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

It wouldn't surprise me if that's part of it.

But objectively, I don’t see any basis for Cox playing 2B. His numbers at 3B have been iffy, scouts aren’t impressed with him, and in the one game I saw him he looked a bit out of place (IANAS, SSS, notsellingjeans).

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen

by Cardinals645 on Nov 22, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

He has the tools to play CF, but playing RF might help him with some injury issues

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

This makes sense. Still don't get the Cox to 2B thing though.

At least he can always move back to CF if he can’t hack it as a RF.

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen

by Cardinals645 on Nov 22, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

It'd be the other way around

Or it should be

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

2nd base of course

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Nov 23, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I could well be too high on wong

but zack cox has still done nothing to show me what an all-star season from zack cox looks like. .797 OPS as a 22-year-old between palm beach and springfield just isn’t doing it for me for a third baseman who isn’t scott rolen.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 22, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

[dick joke redacted]

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

What is wong with them?!

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

As you likely know,

Derrick Goold puts this list together. He approached Lynn and Sanchez in the same way I did and, in his Birdland post on the Top 10 list, addresses my question of who Lynn and Sanchez bumped out of the Top 10:

The addition of Lynn and Sanchez to the list reorganized the top seven, of course, but also left some worthy prospects outside the top 10. A few of those considered for those spots were RHP Trevor Rosenthal, SS Ryan Jackson, 3B Matt Carpenter and newcomer OF Charlie Tilson.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/baseball-america-releases-its-cardinals-top-prospects/article_e691460a-152b-11e1-a669-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1eSNNi0UW

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Been Jonesing to know

What is the scoop on Sanchez and his arm / shoulder? I was puzzled by his late season appearance vs Houston, then his omission from the playoff rosters. Any word on his status? Surgery in the future? OK, but TLR just did not think he was well enough for the big games?

IHeartIHeartBoog
gibby45 is one of the less creepy people on this blog. - IHeartBoog

by Gibby45 on Nov 22, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

God I love that top 5

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I have seen Jenkins as high as 2-B on these prospects list

three potential Aces in the system at once

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Here

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I would go with white if I were you

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

towels can be washed immediately.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

.....I was in the pool!

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Mine just stands in the corner

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

BA's list is always heavily weighted towards potential.

Which is why Jenkins, Taveras, and Miller/Martinez rank so high on this list.

Here’s what I don’t get though: Where is Rosenthal? He should be on this list, and I’d take Lynn off the list due to service time in the big leagues.

Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.

by fourstick on Nov 22, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

If you read Goold's post on the BA list,

he states that he prepped his suggestions assuming that Lynn and Sanchez qualified as rookies. They didn’t. So the list had to be reconfigured since both Lynn and Sanchez technically are still prospects under the BA parameters (basically because each suffered an injury in 2011).

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't understand how Lynn & Sanchez are on this list

if not for injuries, they would have been pitching for the big league club for almost the whole year.

What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.

by nota bene on Nov 22, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

I would have them off and probably put Rosenthal and Tilson or Ryan Jackson on.

Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.

by fourstick on Nov 22, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

They qualify for the prospect list based on BA's use of the MLB rookie definition for graduating prospects.

From Baseball America:

Baseball America’s Top 10 Prospects lists are based on projections of a player’s long-term worth after discussions with scouting and player-development personnel. All players who haven’t exceeded the major league rookie standards of 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched (without regard to service time) are eligible. Ages are as of April 1, 2011.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Largely OK with the list,

but I think Jenkins should be #4 and would have had Jackson or Rosenthal over Swagerty as #10.

"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky

by monkeysareblue on Nov 22, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Most of the BEST TOOLS section is pretty obvious, but there are some really interesting choices.

Tyrell Jenkins as best athlete? That’s damned impressive for a pitcher. Is Tyler Greene eligible? I’m stunned he lost out on best athlete and best runner to CJ McElroy.

And Shane Robinson as best defensive outfielder inspires hope that he can be our RH CF this year. I assume he wins this award based on being good, and not there being a complete dearth of CFs in the minors. Tony Cruz as best def. C is good to see too, if he wins the backup C job from Anderson.

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen

by Cardinals645 on Nov 22, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Jenkins was a QB

Had a football scholarship to Baylor

by nmstar on Nov 22, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

that's scary to think about

Has anyone read about two-sport exceptions to this (hoping)?

by nmstar on Nov 22, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Can't be...

I mean, there could be, but if you can get millions more if you have a second sport option, that’s going to open the door for all kinds of shenanigans…

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

current rules allow

bonus to be spread out over four year for a two-sport guy. I was wondering if they kept in something similar.

by nmstar on Nov 22, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

i thought world champs was pretty good too

"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78

by d-dee on Nov 22, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

ELEVEN!

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

wooo oooo oooooo
Nov 22, 2011 12:21 PM CST

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

IF ONLY WE HAD SECONDS IN THE TIMESTAMP

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

IT'S SO DENSE

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

DENSITY!

11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 22, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

freese up next on the Bernie show

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 22, 2011 12:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Dammit, Zack Cox
Jon Heyman
Drafted players may only sign minor-league deals now. #MLB, #cba

by BVHeck on Nov 22, 2011 1:26 PM EST reply actions  

that seems silly.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

explain to me

i would take this to mean an advantage for teams. Cox’s clock is ticking already because of his major league deal, plus it takes up a spot on our 40 man for a guy who isn’t going to contribute

by BVHeck on Nov 22, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

well...

it’s probably not a huge deal. It’s just one more inducement teams use to sign talent and prevent it from going to other sports, or to college, or in Cox’s case back to college. Anything that impedes the flow of talent into MLB is obviously bad for the game.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

MLB deals are a tool that smaller-market teams use

to avoid paying higher draft bonuses. So far it seems like a lot of the new CBA rules favor big-market clubs.

"Nothing Motte does is quiet. It's mostly screamy and intense." - sheckiezx
"I'm a graduate of the Mike Shannon School of Diction" - Al Hrabosky

by monkeysareblue on Nov 22, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Cox's clock is not ticking.

He has 3 options still and 6 years of service time. His metaphorical clock is ticking in the sense that the Cards won’t want to waste another year of service time but he does not have options until he is actually promoted.

will do ANYTHING for a rec

by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 23, 2011 6:21 AM EST up reply actions  

False.

He has to be optioned to the minors EACH year since he signed a major league and not a minor league deal. There is no non-option year grace period on a major league deal. Hence why Cox is already on the 40-man roster. He has three years before he has to be outrighted to the minors and someone could claim him.

Beware: Velociraptors may be present.

by azruavatar on Nov 23, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions  

There's some weird rule surrounding the fourth option year

and I am ignorant of them (happily so).

Beware: Velociraptors may be present.

by azruavatar on Nov 23, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

plus

in his draft year they delayed his reporting/playing time enough that an option was not burned that year, iirc. So, he’s only used one option so far.

by ArkansasTravs on Nov 23, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure.

There are tons of nuances to the option system. This, however,
 

He has 3 options still and 6 years of service time. His metaphorical clock is ticking in the sense that the Cards won’t want to waste another year of service time but he does not have options until he is actually promoted.

is clearly wrong. He does have options (2, possibly 3) and his clock is certainly ticking.

Beware: Velociraptors may be present.

by azruavatar on Nov 23, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed

clock is most definitely ticking. It does have one more year on it than it might otherwise have, but it is ticking.

by ArkansasTravs on Nov 23, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

It's ticking but it doesn't seem like it'll matter much.

He raked in Double AA in the second half of last year. I’m sure he’ll play in Memphis at some point next year.

And, sure, he takes up a spot on the 40 man but it’s not like there isn’t fluff already on there. There’s 36 guys on there and that includes dreck like Theriot and Skip (not to mention Kozma, Fick, Shane Robinson, etc)

by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 23, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

yea

I’m not as concerned as some others about Cox. He seems to be progressing OK to me. If he does well at Springfield and Memphis this coming year, he’ll be pretty much on schedule, I would think. My only question is where is he going to play (in StL)?

by ArkansasTravs on Nov 23, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Also...

Dammit, Sam Bradford

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

well, the rams ARE the nfl's minor league,

so not sure what the problem there is.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I still don't understand how the MLBPA has the ability to negotiate draft stuff

They get to negotiate the reduction in salary for non-members who are signing on to be non-members?

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 22, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Does anyone else expect

A swift to money for international prospects

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 22, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

WTF!?

They are limiting it to $1 and $5 million a year. Is it just for Latin America or include Japan?

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 22, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

You can't sign Japanese prospects anyway as part of the agreement with the Japan leagues.

But yea, this CBA is shit. (minus the increased replay, and discrimination protection extended to sexual preferences)

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen

by Cardinals645 on Nov 22, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

he designed that too, didn't he.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

What a travesty.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

hmm..

i dunno, i’ve found it hard to get outraged by any of the picks this year.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

because....

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO ?

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

....

11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 22, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

VEB

you disappoint me.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

that

and the fact that None of the Cards had a shot at an award anyway.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahem

Comeback Player of the Year!

by hangingfromatree on Nov 22, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

and that rakish smile

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

hmm. got it.
rak·ish 1 (rksh)
adj.
1. Nautical Having a trim, streamlined appearance: “We were schooner-rigged and rakish, with a long and lissome hull” (John Masefield).
2. Dashingly or sportingly stylish; jaunty.

by hangingfromatree on Nov 22, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not familiar with that phrase, either.

Perhaps if you understood American

Anyway. It’s an award. And first place. Jeez.

by hangingfromatree on Nov 22, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

next year i would like to see waino win comeback player of the year

+ cy young + mvp

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Braun's and Kemp's numbers were certainly close

and Braun did play on a division-winning team, but he had Prince Fielder in that lineup, and half his games were in Miller Park, which ranked as the 10th best hitter’s park this year, I believe. Kemp did what he did in the cavern that is Dodger Stadium, and with virtually no protection in the lineup.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

i find it hard to believe that the BBWAA would consider park factors

probably lineups though. Personally i’d have gone with Kemp, but i can’t see too many people being up in arms about it.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

but when someone who is in your same lineup is also receiving first place MVP votes

doesn’t that kind of negate whether you are actually the MOST valuable player?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno...

I think it should just be for the best player and not involve what teammates did or didn’t do….

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

then they should call the award the best player award

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

and braun still wouldn't win!

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

No, no at all

It just means that Fielder was almost as valuable as Braun. The fact that the Brewers have both Fielder and Braun is obviously a big reason why they won 96 games.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

not really ever being mad about it

Kemp had the fWAR lead 8.7 to Braun’s 7.3 and the rWAR lead 10.0 to 7.7 so not really robbery but if Kemp’s fans want to bitch they have an argument.

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Skinnie Tie Magazine?

"He probably misses his old glasses."

by Alxfritz on Nov 22, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

boom

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Now this one I can disagree with

Braun was great but Kemp was better by a long shot

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

really? this surprises me too.

the bbwaa and i just don’t see eye to eye. whatever.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

that means you win

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Nov 22, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

naw, the VEB MVP is aranathor.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd like to thank

myself, my family and all the people who made this possible. But mostly myself.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Way to bribe the Academy

2012 MLB All Star Game FanFest: July 6-10 at the Kansas City Convention Center! Ask me for more info!

by mtzxc on Nov 22, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

hey come on

if your as attractive, intelligent, wonderful, amazing, good-looking, muscular, fantastic, handsome, clever, awesome, diplomatic, modest, cultured, caring and gorgeous as me… well you can hardly blame them.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

you're

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

And, of course, the modest argument...

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Ooooh, just barely nexdef'd.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

There goes the intelligence argument...

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

And I feel like the modest aspect was blasted out of the water too.

2012 MLB All Star Game FanFest: July 6-10 at the Kansas City Convention Center! Ask me for more info!

by mtzxc on Nov 22, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

huh...

seems like playing CF in a pitcher’s park vs. a corner spot in a hitter’s park should tip things toward Kemp.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

in fairness Braun had a 179 wRC+ to Kemp's 171

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

and Braun was way more clutch

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Nov 22, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

But Kemp played center as well as Braun played left

That’s a huge advantage right there.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Braun gets bonus points for hilarity

link

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Nov 22, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

This

I don’t do the “this” thing often but I don’t know what else to say. Kemp hit pretty much equivalent to Braun (the main difference I can see is that Braun’s average was in the .330s instead of .320s and that pushed his wOBA higher, not by much). Kemp played in a crappier home park. Kemp played a more valuable position.

What exactly is the argument for Braun.

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

In fairness to the voters, Braun did have a higher wRC+ of 179 to 171.

Braun had a higher wOBA (.433 to .419), OPS (.994 to .985), and BA (.332 to .324). But, Kemp has more HR (39 to 33), SB (40 to 33), and played CF about as poorly as Braun played LF. Obviously, getting the production out of a center fielder that the Dodgers got is more valuable than getting the production out of a left fielder than the Brewers got. You aren’t on Twitter but a couple of the positional adjustment discussions featuring veteran baseball writers have demonstrated that they are reluctant to adopt WAR because of the positional adjustment. (I believe Buster Olney said WAR lost viability in his eyes because Zobrist was higher ranked than Adrian Gonzalez or some other corner power hitter.) I don’t think many voters likely grasp just how much more valuable a center fielder who had the season Kemp had is than a left fielder who had the season Braun had.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it's kind of sad

I think the argument is very logical but so many people don’t buy it, apparently.

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I can totally understand a Zobrist situation where the offense and position are very different

because that means you have to put a lot of trust in the WAR/positional-adjustment numbers. But when we have a left fielder and a center fielder, and both play bad-but-not-terrible defense, and their hitting is more or less equivalent, and one of them plays in a hitters park while the other plays in a pitcher’s park… I just don’t see what’s so hard to accept about this comparison, basically.

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't trust the WAR / positional adjustment number much either. . .

Ths positional adjustments are the same ones that were used before we had fielding WAR, right?

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Hm... not sure about the answer to that

My point was that we can all pretty much agree that center field is a more valuable position, defensively, than left field. We can pretty much all accept that it is easier to hit at Miller Park than it is at Dodger Stadium. This isn’t a comparison where we would have to do a lot of calculations to make a pretty good case for Matt Kemp.

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Let me pose a weird question

Why does the CF have to be the best fielding OF? (Don’t get me wrong, I can understand the reason(s), but let me finish..) Say you have three outfielders, two are very good defensively, average to slightly above offensively (among all OF’s), the third is a poor fielder but hits like Kemp/Braun. Would it be better to stash the poorer fielder in a corner position (as is usually accepted) or could you get just as good overall defense if the poor fielder played CF and the two good fielding corners bunched, just a bit, to help cover? (and I guess it would depend somewhat on the arms)

by ArkansasTravs on Nov 22, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Good question

Another thing to think of is particular skills. Carl Crawford is an excellent defender but plays “only” left field, for example.

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

so.much.tool

Perhaps I’m just not “down” with the current trends, but I know of no one who wears this crap.

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 22, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

correct me if i'm wrong, but

second from the right, isn’t that the kluneberg?

“it’s art, it’s colonialism and you’ll never get it.”

"Yeah, you can write, you can feel, you can think. Whaddaya want, a medal?" - Paul Westerberg

by Edbird on Nov 22, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

No wonder he won MVP

Look at the extension with the left arm…

I want more... More baaaacon!

Jim Gaffigan

by blueinmemphis on Nov 22, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions   4 recs

Yeah he wears pretty turdesque shirts...

but I can’t hate Ryan Braun. All the interviews I have seen make him appear likeable.

Plus, look at all the knives and skulls on those shirts, he has to be tough. but alas! there are roses as well, so he is sensitive and thoughtful! but yet more alas! they’re black! so he has a dark side that isn’t related to the knives and skulls!

Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"

John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."

by SheckieZx on Nov 23, 2011 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Albert finished fifth.

Lance Berkman was seventh ONLY?

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 2:07 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Yadi was 22nd!

no votes for Lego :(

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Nov 22, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

22 is twice ELEVEN

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you cereal?

2012 MLB All Star Game FanFest: July 6-10 at the Kansas City Convention Center! Ask me for more info!

by mtzxc on Nov 22, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

yes.

9th if you go by bWAR

by tomsteele on Nov 22, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm speechless.

2012 MLB All Star Game FanFest: July 6-10 at the Kansas City Convention Center! Ask me for more info!

by mtzxc on Nov 22, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

He has some sort of spell on writers

Which makes no sense since they should hate him FOR THE KKKKKKKZ

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 22, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

just behind Todd Helton in OPS

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

No no no

You just don’t get it. He creates opportunities for his teammates to help win games by striking out against left-handed pitchers. You have no idea how valuable that is. And intangible.

by hangingfromatree on Nov 22, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

also

he’s a LEADER

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

WAT

or, as rui would say… 0_0

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

oh god

he’s almost finished with the transition to full-on 16-year-old girl

by prophetjohn on Nov 22, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

you think 16 year old girls wear argyle like Rui?

he’s in another league, man.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

o_o

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

^_^

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

is it cold in here?

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Nov 22, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah but it's actually o_o

not 0_0

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

neither.

i still prefer ¬_¬ or _

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, but who has logical negation on their keyboard?

i’m not remember special alt sequences just to make a smiley face

by prophetjohn on Nov 22, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

~

~

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

@

@

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

wierd

we have “quotation marks” there.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

those have their own key here.

it’s to the right of the L and the (semi-colon and colon) key.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

and all this time i thought the qwerty keyboard was universal

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

i think european keyboards are AZERTY

or something. they all have different regional ones. the turkish keyboard is one i remember being a fucking pain to use.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

actually, it's the QWERTY keyboard that's the pain.

QWERTY keyboards were designed to slow down typists in the early days of typewriters. that’s why a typical “rest position” leaves you the dominant finger of 90% of the population resting on the “j.”

early typewriters were prone to jam if people typed too fast. a keyboard designed to be easy to use would put the 8-point scrabble letters to the sides and the most common letters right at your rest position. in fact you can order special keyboards configured that way.

ignorance without the bliss - aimee mann

by tom s. on Nov 22, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

but now everyone knows how to use a qwerty so...

Isn’t DVORAK (or something) supposed to be more efficient?

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

i think the DVORAK keyboard is the one that's conventionally used.

but yes, now we all use VHS, so why would we get a betamax keyboard?

ignorance without the bliss - aimee mann

by tom s. on Nov 22, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

...
While it is often said that QWERTY was designed to “slow down” typists, this is incorrect – it was designed to prevent jams while typing at speed, yet some of the layout decisions, such as placing only one vowel on the home row, did have the effect of hobbling more modern keyboards.

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

the reference for that cite is some guy's earthlink page.

i’m not sure that’s necessarily correct.

ignorance without the bliss - aimee mann

by tom s. on Nov 22, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

il losso's rationale is what I was taught as a kid

and it sounds right, from experience,as well. the problem was that the little die-cast plates that held the “letter” were significantly larger than the space betwen the letters on the page, so that if you hit two or three adjacent letters near-simultaneously, the arms would jam at the paper. You’d have to remove the cover of the typewriter to manually unjam the system.

On a QWERTY keyboard, you’d experience this if you hit, say, letters “w”, “e” and “r” near-simultaneously. The QWERTY was designed to space keys out as much as possible based on the probability of hitting two at the same time, so that the likelihood of jamming was minimized.

"Now that they've come out with that great stat, 'innings pitched per inning'-- is there anything they don't have a stat for these days?" -Al Hraboski, 3 Jun 11

by SleepyCA on Nov 22, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

QWERTZ

That’s Germany I think.

Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?

by lightbulb on Nov 22, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember using one in France

that was all messed up (from what I’m used to). I had to use ‘hunt-and-peck’.

by ArkansasTravs on Nov 22, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

i think they are pretty universal

although ours has a € symbol

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Shouldn't those eyes be inscrutible, then?

_

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm. THAT didn't work

Let’s try this:
- _ -

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 22, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

_-_

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

i approve of your new avatar

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Jesus fuck the writers are so god damn stupid

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Dotel is officially a B!

"He probably misses his old glasses."

by Alxfritz on Nov 22, 2011 2:23 PM EST reply actions  

Heh

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO

by VolsnCards5 on Nov 22, 2011 3:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Ken Rosenthal

tweeted on this.

Type A FAs that for this off-season will effectively be Type Bs under terms of new CBA – Capps, Cordero, Dotel, R. Hernandez, Oliver.
Teams that sign those players will not lose a pick. Teams that lose them will gain a supplemental choice.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 22, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yadier Molina and a future contract

Yadi is a free agent after 2012. Having looked at a number of roster matrixes (matrices?) I’ve often heard it said that the Cardinals will have money to spend in 2013 because Lohse and Westbrook will be off the books and replaced with cheaper options, and likely Berkman as well. However, I was wondering what it will take to resign Yadi after 2012. Are we looking at 12M a year? 15M a year? Any thoughts?

by Fleabottom on Nov 22, 2011 2:34 PM EST reply actions  

Too high.

I wouldn’t go any higher than 3Y$25M, backloaded ($7M, $8M, $10M), with maybe an option year based on PA’s.

He cannot be a productive player at another position. His offensive value is tied up strictly with being a catcher, and he’ll be 30 years old with 9 seasons and 1000+ games of catching wear and tear.

He’s very similar, both offensively and defensively to two other Cardinal catchers: Joe Garagiola and Tim McCarver, and both were pretty much done as regulars behind the plate by age 31.

Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.

by fourstick on Nov 22, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Not saying it's wise...

just that’s what they’ll do.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think they will, honestly

I don’t think there will be any money out there for him in free agency anyway, so he’ll get more from the Cardinals in that deal I propose above then he’ll get anywhere else.

Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.

by fourstick on Nov 22, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he gets paid by the Cardinals, and handsomely

I expect a 3/36M or a 4/48M Contract out of the Cardinals. While I agree that he will be on the wrong side of 30, I just get the feeling that he is a core player they will keep tied up.

by Fleabottom on Nov 22, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I don't think he's getting that much

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you suggesting...

That the Molina’s found the cloning machine used by Michael Keaton’s character in Multiplicity? If so, clone is he?

by Fleabottom on Nov 22, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Wrong again

The greatest trick Keyser Mölina ever pulled was convincing MLB he doesn’t exist.

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

cough.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 22, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

No

Yadier Molina is from the USA.

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

He’s from the USA + Puerto Rico

by hangingfromatree on Nov 22, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

(they're from Canada.)

"He probably misses his old glasses."

by Alxfritz on Nov 22, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

what's a peeple?

is it like a peep only in the shape of a person so that you can pretend to be a cannibal while eating terrible sugar-coated marshmallows?

it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be

by il rosso on Nov 22, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

is your girlfriend hotter than guay's?

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Kelly Johnson?

he may not be a huge upgrade, but would you dump skip and sign him and let him and punto platoon?

i just like the idea of a real second baseman..although he isn’t chase utley

because TLR

by punchinjudy on Nov 22, 2011 5:49 PM EST reply actions  

You know he was worth 6 WAR in 2010 yeah?

He is potentially a HUMONGOUS upgrade. He is very likely a large upgrade

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

in years past i had mentioned him and was

squashed quickly..i just think even a light hitting true second baseman is better than skip…even though skip has gotten better…

the first thing i liked about punto was watching him do a turn

because TLR

by punchinjudy on Nov 22, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Johnson appears to be above average defensively, as well

And I THINK he’s been downgraded to a Type B Free Agent as well, so it won’t cost us a draft pick either. It’d be a great get, imo. He’ll turn 30 this next season… I don’t think I’d mind a 2 year $20 million contract or something in that range

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

the only issue is how inconsistent he's been

its like one year he gets on base at a .375 clip, the next year its like .320

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. He's still a very good bet to be a 2 WAR player though

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree. but 2/20 seems a bit steep. i feel like we should get a little bit of a discount based on last year's performance

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

He was still a 2.2 WAR player last year

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

That .304 OBP makes me shudder though

Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?

by lightbulb on Nov 22, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly.

i feel like his WAR might be inflated a bit by fielding metrics. i don’t know exactly how it works, but his 5.9 WAR season came with high UZR

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

His UZR was 7.1. That's like, .7 wins

And UZR can just as easily be understating his fielding as it can be overstating

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah see i didn't know that.

but in any event. as someone who watched him play a lot during that 5.9 WAR season, i’m still not sold on him.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

well probably not

Johnson’s never really been thought of as a good defender.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

it can be understating his fielding

but it’s much more likely to be overstating it

by prophetjohn on Nov 22, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

True, but he was bad in 2009

I can never remember if fWAR adjusts for home park, so I just stick with wOBA* from Statcorner, which adjusts for home ball park.

He does seem solid in the field though, like you said below.

I guess I net out at thinking he’s not that much of an upgrade (compared to a Punto/Greene combo…have not thought this out fully though) looking at 2009 in addition to his 2010 and 2011 results.

Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?

by lightbulb on Nov 22, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Shooting down runners with the hot dog gun, doing the Fredbird belly bump on guys going to second

I like it. Also, he seems like a big hit with the ladies for some reason. Has a whole group of tag-ons called “Team Fredbird” that dance for him on command.

Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?

by lightbulb on Nov 22, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

That glove seems a little small

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 23, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

ugh

number one way for me to lose interest in interning for your company: state that your company is only offering unpaid internships under some bullshit premise like “making contacts.”

all you explained to me was that you either a) don’t understand the software industry, b) are not committed to finding top talent or c) are just plain unethical

by prophetjohn on Nov 22, 2011 6:28 PM EST reply actions  

so, you're not taking the mysterui career path then?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 22, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

NOW LOOK AT ME

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

works well with avatar

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I SEE YOU

FRODO OF THE SHIRE

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

THE RUI IS NOW DIAMONDS

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Nov 22, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

unpaid internships are often illegal

You might want to check the Fair Labor Standard Act.

It’s very difficult for a for-profit corporation to meet FLSA requirements for unpaid internships.

by madridbend on Nov 22, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

i've been saying this for awhile now. i don't understand how corporations continue to get away with this.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

because the kind of industries where unpaid internships are common

students are scared to speak up against them because it’s such an accepted way to get your foot in the door.

the law is pretty much that if they are doing anything to benefit the company, it’s illegal, as far as i know

by prophetjohn on Nov 22, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

who's going to stop them?

What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.

by nota bene on Nov 22, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

IHeartBoog

with the all the mighty power of VEB TEAM!!!

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

isn't that similar to educational type training though

i don’t know much about those. but that’s really the big factor. that, and the company derives no immediate benefit from the intern’s activities. and they can’t displace actual paid workers.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

like i actually think rui's internship with the mariners was legit

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not talking about the DOJ interns

These are full time AUSA positions where they are having people volunteer to work for them for a year with no pay. They started coming up a couple of years ago when the DOJ realized there were a ton of unemployed lawyers who had been laid off and would work for free.

by OCCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

are they working as lawyers?

aren’t they exempt?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Definitely working as lawyers

I have no idea how the labor laws work. Maybe it is just that they are exempt. I had one labor law class and it was all about railroads.

by OCCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Professional exemption would likely apply.

"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter

by cardsfan59 on Nov 22, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah. lawyers and other "professional"-type positions are exempt from the FLSA

that’s actually probably how a lot of these companies get away with it, now that i think about it. professionals, executive, and administrative employees are exempt.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Exempt status depends on a minimum salary

Exempt means exempt from overtime, not unpaid; to qualify for exemption, the employee must receive a salary.

However, the FLSA allows the federal government to have unpaid interns.

by madridbend on Nov 22, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I was getting paid...

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

in ramen from the vending machine?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

No, in actual wages!

And I only bought that like 3 times

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

i thought it was an unpaid internship.

so i guess it really was legit after all. i was just being nice!

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

oh, it's almost always illegal

but i’m not going to accept it since i already have offers for paid internships

i’m just a little disappointed because this company was kind of my first choice

by prophetjohn on Nov 22, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm also going to attend this

http://www.campus2careers.com/mia

so hopefully i can find something more interesting than the offers i already have. i’ll definitely be getting paid for my skills, though

by prophetjohn on Nov 22, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

over/under on the amount of time i have to stand in security at the airport tomorrow: 45 minutes.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 7:07 PM EST reply actions  

over

over/under on how long it will take me to get from St Charles to the IL state line using 270 when I get off work at 430 tomorrow…75 minutes

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 22, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

over

i fail at teh subjunctive

by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 23, 2011 1:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I work in the travel industry

This is the slowest week we have had in months.

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 22, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

so... what?

isn’t tomorrow the biggest travel day of the year?

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

touch

the onscreen keyboard is surprisingly adequate. easy enough to use as the one on my phone, except no autocorrect. browser is usable in a pinch. and all pre-1920 books being free is a nice treat

by prophetjohn on Nov 22, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I miss my first gen

I have a Nook color rooted and liked the e-ink more

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 22, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

e-ink is definitely better for reading

they had a kindle fire, too, which was about what I expected. cool if you’re all in on amazon or just want to watch netflix and read books, but a little sluggish and I wasn’t a fan of the UI at all.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 22, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I rarely even use my tablet

I might pick a used first gen off craigslist so I can start reading more

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 22, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Best Buy has the keyboard 3G for $89 right now

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 22, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Is Deadspin credible?

I am not familiar with it.

"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter

by cardsfan59 on Nov 22, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know if this is supposed to be sarcastic or not

But, in general, I’d say Deadspin’s much more credible than a lot of people think.

by DJ Jazzy Jeff Weaver on Nov 22, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not being sarcastic.

I really am not familiar with it. Old fogey who doesn’t get around enough.

"I don’t like the feeling of losing."---Chris Carpenter

by cardsfan59 on Nov 22, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

They have broken some pretty big stories

I believe they were the first to report the Brett Favre scandal

by OCCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

they're kind of also the kings of sleaze mountain

but it looks like they did some double-checking here.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 22, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

uhhh gross

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe add a nsfw note next time

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

are you fired?

i will represent you your employer

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 22, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

my bad

totally forget about the pics by the time i came to post it because i was so floored by the scumminess of it all…

I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.

by slu on Nov 22, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

hahahaha men discussing other men's techniques. ha.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Ahahaha!!!

she deserves better than that.

"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig

by pattimagee on Nov 23, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

You don't know him Joker.

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen

by Cardinals645 on Nov 23, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Too early to say what the repercussions are going to be...

but if I’m Albert and I’m reading this, I’ve got to be pretty incensed. If the agent’s entire career is hinging on this one contract, then Lozano & Albert’s negotiating position is out the window.

by DJ Jazzy Jeff Weaver on Nov 22, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

this is insane.

I am pretty sure Lozano is gone i wonder how this will affect the negotiations.

Cards fan in Seoul.
Albert Pujols is the hero st. louis deserves.

by letsgostlcardinals on Nov 23, 2011 7:36 AM EST up reply actions  

This [Fake News] Just In!

Albert Pujols Fires Agent Dan Lozano [But Not Really], Hires Competitor Scott Boras [Except He Doesn’t Really Because Mattybobo Did Not Use A Blockquote]!!!

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

If Albert were to believe the story

I would guess that he would fire Lazano. However, if the part about players “investing” in his business is true, Albert may know some (I would guess, certainly, not all) of this already.

Dunno, I’m sure Lazano will try to convince him it’s just other folks jealous and out to get him but it’s pretty damning.

by ArkansasTravs on Nov 23, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

fireing your agent while you are a free agent

in the middle of contract negotiations is a HUGE reaction that could costs Millions.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Meh

I doubt it. Agents add very little value IMHO, and even less in an Albert Pujols contract situation. Why athletes don’t wise up and pay a good attorney hourly is one of the great mysteries in life to me.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 23, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

that sound you just heard

was IHB printing out a resume to mail to Albert.

by ArkansasTravs on Nov 23, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

i wish

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

DO IT!!

I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.

by Hootie Who on Nov 23, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

but they don't

so i need to abandon my college prep for agenthood
and find me a pimp and/or drug dealer apprenticeship

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Nov 23, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

But seriously

if all this stuff turns out to be true AND it means we get to watch Lozano crash and burn… i cannot wait.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

you may be getting Lozano confused with Boras

Boras is the one that everybody but his clients hates.

What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.

by nota bene on Nov 22, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm British, i think this comic will explain.

Link

Scandal = Awesome-fun-time.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

also

who cares who likes Boras? The only people that he needs to like him are his clients. This whole thing could stop Lozano’s clients liking him. Thus he won’t have any clients anymore.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's the thing. It's not like Boras is a choirboy or something.

But, if Lozano’s banking everything on this contract, and now everyone knows it, then any power they had in negotiating with the Cardinals is now ancient history.

by DJ Jazzy Jeff Weaver on Nov 22, 2011 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see why it changes the leverage

Albert has the leverage, not Lozano. So what if he is a scumbag? The Cards aren’t going to say, “Albert we know your agent is a dirtbag so now we will only pay you $18 million a year.” The market will set the price for Albert.

by OCCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes and no.

On the other hand, Lozano is the one dealing with all the teams. If every team knows that Lozano’s got everything riding on this contract, don’t you think that’s going to affect the offers at least a bit? I’m not talking $10MM a year off the price, but it could still be significant.

by DJ Jazzy Jeff Weaver on Nov 22, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Honestly I really don't think that will affect the price of Pujols at all

It is well known that teams don’t like dealing with Boras, but yet his clients have been able to obtain some of the highest contracts. The Angels would not even deal with Boras for quite a while (I think they recently changed that) but his clients have done fine.

by OCCardsFan on Nov 22, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd argue that teams don't like dealing with Boras precisely because he is a ruthless negotiator who comes from a position of power.

Lozano’s position of power now seems gone for good. That’s not to say that Albert himself doesn’t bring a huge amount of negotiating power to the table — he certainly does — but I still feel like, to do his job properly, the agent needs to as well.

by DJ Jazzy Jeff Weaver on Nov 22, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

You're really overrating all of this

Assuming it’s true, you think MLB teams didn’t already know this?

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 22, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I absolutely think MLB teams didn't already know a lot of this.

See nota bene’s comment below with the block quotes about how Lozano was hiding transactions from the MLBPA.

by DJ Jazzy Jeff Weaver on Nov 22, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

well

The timing of this is certainly interesting, isn’t it? If a tenth of this turns out to be true, Lozano is in historically deep shit.

Towards the beginning of it, as I was reading I was thinking “gee, crooked sports agent is kind of a dog bites man story, isn’t it?”….I mean, people making lots of money drink and pay for hookers? Stop the presses!

But the later stuff (sexual harassment claims, allegations of conflict of interest, etc) is a hell of a lot more substantive, and I imagine there are a lot of non-Deadspin journalists who are busy making phone calls right now. Quite a lot of what’s in that article is anonymously sourced; if it’s legit, we’ll know shortly. I wonder if this would be enough to get Pujols to fire Lozano.

P.S. reading Deadspin tends to make me want a shower, and the way they presented that story (“click for uncensored photo”) just reinforces that impression for me.

What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.

by nota bene on Nov 22, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions  

thing is

i can’t imagine Albert Pujols going; “improper business practices? MY WORD! I must rid myself of this deviant at once!”, but he probably would be pissed at the whole; non-christian, hookers, booze, calling him a monkey, thing.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

as soon as Albert picks up the phone and starts asking Lozano questions, there's no telling what could happen

I think he would be more concerned by the implication that Lozano screwed up his last deal.

What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.

by nota bene on Nov 22, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I just like to imagine that Lozano's first words in that situation would be

“Albert! Baby! How’ve you been!?” Whilst he sweats profusely and tugs at his collar.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

after all that, he shouldn't get any respect.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

exactly

the porn is what’s going to drive DS’s pageviews, but that has nothing to do with the real meat in the story, which is the stuff that’s more directly relevant to Lozano’s job.

According to sources who have worked with Lozano’s players, the transactions are made through a Merrill Lynch money manager in Coral Gables, Fla., so as to hide the deals from the MLBPA. One rival agent went so far as to confirm the dealings with his own contact at Merrill Lynch. According to that contact, Alex Rodriguez is one of Lozano’s larger investors.

This is an extraordinarily one-sided presentation of this story (an anonymous “rival agent” “confirmed” Lozano’s “dealings” with “his own contact at Merrill Lynch”?!), but Bud Selig’s lawyers are going to start poking around and if the underlying allegation isn’t 100% fabricated horseshit….I mean, forget Pujols’ upcoming contract. It’s conceivable that Lozano could be looking at jail time.

What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.

by nota bene on Nov 22, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure why you're referring to this as an "internet story"

other than to minimize its relevance or credibility. If it’s factual, it’s factual, regardless of where it’s published.

by DJ Jazzy Jeff Weaver on Nov 22, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes

How do you think Pujols will perceive this about a guy he’s known for a decade+? People don’t give up on their beliefs very easily, and that’s assuming it’s true.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 22, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

No question that people don't give up on their beliefs easily

and I could absolutely see Pujols doing nothing at all in response to this story.

But, I could also see him being fairly incensed about it. We have absolutely no clue how he’s going to react.

by DJ Jazzy Jeff Weaver on Nov 22, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

At least you know that you could walk up to Dan Lozano and ask

“How’s my dick taste?”

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That would be if he were dating my ex.

That girl was shitfuckingnuts.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, I've been there

I seem to attract the shitfuckingnuts girls

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 22, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

That's fine just don't marry them

11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 22, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

They're a whole lot of fun for a while.

Just not for the long haul.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I concur ... when young have fun

Then when you feel it’s time marry one of the marrying girls … I’m remembering Gone with the Wind now

11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 22, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

heh. whole lotta sense, right there.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I could be coming off the wrong way here though

I had a lot of fun when young, but when I found the right woman, I nabbed her. In some ways, selfishly, I’m glad it took a while though. Although when I did find the right one for me I knew it and went all in so to speak.

11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 22, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Did the same thing.

I just ran a lot longer than most. I made it 35 years before I decided to make that move.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

well I'm 24 so I figure I have a little while longer

though all my friends are getting married and I get that weekly call from the parents that ask when are they going to get grandchildren. I remind them that my older brother has been married for two years and to bug him, to which they reply “he’s getting his doctorate in molecular biology, he’s very busy, you’re an English major and young.”

Sigh.

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 22, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

ask them if they're going to pay for it

that’ll stop that shit in a hurry

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

hahahaha

worked on mine

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

makes me appreciate my wife just that much more

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm in the same boat

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 22, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem is they seem normal to start out with

Then you’re getting calls at 1 in the morning saying they’re pregnant and it’s your baby and you find out that it was all a lie because they thought you would break up with them and they weren’t ever pregnant.

Or maybe that’s just me.

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 22, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

well, thats a whole different realm of crazy

I’m just talking bi-polar, which is enough by itself

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 22, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Mine was about that bad.

She bounced between acting like a slut and a complete religious freak. Never knew what side of the bed she was getting out on.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I had a girl like that

Acted like a slut one night, and the next night it was if she was a nun. Speaking of nuns, during my weekly visit to my 83 year old grandpa’s house, he told me a nun story, but I might have to save that for late-night VEB.

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 22, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll remind you of it. I love a good grandpa story.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

My grandpa has no filter whatsoever

and he was in the Navy, so I always hear stories about when he was in North Africa, on shore leave, etc.

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 22, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I never knew either of mine.

My parents were almost 40 when they had me. My dad has stories like that, but he doesn’t tell them.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

My grandpa was also a fireman, handyman, etc. so he always has something new to tell

Last week he was talking about this whole “cougar” thing with women and his line was

“You know, when I was 13 I was shagging this 22 year old broad. I was into cougars before all of these f*@(in television shows and websites of the pornographic nature.”

I called him a hipster, and he just looked at me.

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 22, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It's always an interesting visit

I always get a kick out of fixing his computer. He has a netbook that he got for free because he’s with this survey company that pays for his internet (he used to have a webtv through them but they changed it to netbooks) and he really doesn’t know how to do anything except check his e-mail and browse the internet. So he always deletes a file or something by accident.

Two weeks ago I went in there and in his bookmark bar (on google chrome) there were all these porn sites. “I don’t know how they got there, you know this uh, e-mail on the internet sends me spam and I swear it bookmarks the sites up there.” It’s funny because he tries to sound like he knows what he’s talking about and i just laugh on the inside.

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 22, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Grandpa sounds very funny, pray tell us more

11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 23, 2011 6:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Well a few years ago he lived with us

Long story short he had a fall at his house (which was actually a good thing, as when he went to the hospital they found other things like gallbladder, kidney, etc that were fixed) and lived with us for almost two years.

My grandpa had his own dedicated phone line so that he could access his internet (the company only pays for 56k) and his computer was set up in his bedroom. Well my grandpa is incredibly hard of hearing and too stubborn to get hearing aids, so he has to have the volume incredibly loud. Well one day he was trying to watch porn on his computer and because it was 56k it stuttered every second, so for an hour straight you heard a stuttered moan blaring from the computer speakers. I’ll give the man credit though, he was determined to watch it. When my mom came to him and said to not watch porn, he told her “I’m only looking at the faces.”

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 23, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't know why girls think that is a good idea

Like we’re not going to eventually figure out that they aren’t pregnant?

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 22, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

they're hoping they'll have a ring before you figure it out.

Or actually be pregnant.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I've gotten that *twice*

It’s the dumbest thing ever.

How do you know?
I took a test how do you think??
So where’s the test?
Oh. Well. I don’t know. YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME?

I’m gonna look like such an asshole if/when it’s for real because of this conditioning.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Nov 22, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I've gotten it three times

It’s always the same

It’s my body I THINK I WOULD KNOW
                         Maybe it’s gas (in my defense I only said that to the last one and I knew the
                           relationship was over)
                         Blank Angry Death Stare

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 22, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

to quote Woody and Rizz
bitches be trippin’

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 22, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I've gotten that once!

And it was totally because we were trying! It was thrilling! Stupid crazy womens!

RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!

by a fink on Nov 22, 2011 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I"m sure if I was trying

or if the girl wasn’t lying I would have been elated. I’d love to be a dad

by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 22, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I've gotten that twice now.

Lucky me!!!

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

WHY AM I NOT ASLEEP?

WHy Aranathor, why?!!! I feel like I’m going to die, and yet when I put the computer away, I do not fall asleep.

Aranthor > VEB

will do ANYTHING for a rec

by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 23, 2011 6:56 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

welcome to my life

well, my life from a year ago anyway.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 23, 2011 6:59 AM EST up reply actions  

New strategy

I’m going to find a picture of boobs and then shut my computer so that will be the only thing in my mind when I am laying there.

That way even if I stay awake, hey it’s not so bad. (Obviously this wouldn’t work for you.)

Fuck, I’m getting off-track. This will be the last time I post tonight.

will do ANYTHING for a rec

by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 23, 2011 7:04 AM EST up reply actions  

are you sure?

11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 23, 2011 7:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I thought things like this are the reason people go gay...

They get tired of dealing with crazy women. Men can understand the mind of other men.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

haha

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow

RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!

by a fink on Nov 22, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Not suprising, but this can only be good for us

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

cards waiting till lozo implodes

and then trying to work with a different agent

ugly

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Nov 23, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

How does Albert look older than he is?

Josh is two weeks older than Albert and he’s got wrinkles. I don’t see any wrinkles on Albert’s face. My brother has been bald since he was 22. And Matt Holliday is like one day younger than Albert. Not sure how he looks younger or more his age than Albert.

Albert might be older. He might not. But I don’t think he looks older than 31.

2011 - Year of Our Berk

by spants on Nov 22, 2011 8:54 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

But, but, Dominican!

Anyway, I really don’t think Albert looks too old either. And even if he looked older than the “canonical” 21-year old when he debuted (if we could somehow demonstrate that, which is impossible) that means nothing as well. I’m 27 and have a 3-year old daughter and I get carded for alcohol routinely. The “Age-gate” thing, so far as I can tell, comes from him being physically mature early on (not particularly remarkable for a pro athlete), being really good early on (not particularly remarkable for a player of Pujols’ awesomeness), and being Dominican, where they apparently fake their ages sometimes (him being Dominican is not particularly remarkable for a baseball player).

by mattybobo on Nov 22, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

You just hear people talk about how he looks older.

It’s not like he looks 40.

2011 - Year of Our Berk

by spants on Nov 22, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

The way he runs and walks is about the way I feel.

And I’ve got a good 8-9 years on him.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

He also's plays sports every day of his life

Probably not too good for his body.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, that's what I was getting at.

He may only be 31 but damned if he moves like it. He’s looked like an old man for about 5 years now.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

I think he looks kind of cool. He’s just really stocky and lumbering. Doesn’t seem to effect his hitting or fielding much.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

heh. thanks.

I’ll use that to describe me from now on.

Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 22, 2011 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

i think it's the high school pictures

It’s kind of hard to differentiate between a 30 year old and a 33 year old.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

i would rec this multiple times if i could

i think the comparison to matt holliday is most telling.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you

I work with athletes. Teal Bunbury is younger than I am, but because he’s 6’3 185, I confuse him for 25 or 26 a lot.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

You made that name up.

"He probably misses his old glasses."

by Alxfritz on Nov 23, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I wish

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Botox Cosmetic (TM)

Boog would have made that play.

by thepainguy on Nov 23, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

i guess 2ndhalfmatt

is going to change his avatar now. I can’t look at that face without remembering that article.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 22, 2011 9:07 PM EST reply actions  

OK, this Kohl's commercial needs to die

I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!

by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 22, 2011 9:09 PM EST reply actions  

I don't know how many people here are into nerd rap / nerdcore...

But Random’s “Mega Ran 10” has a great TLR reference on the bonus track O.O.B.E.:

See me heading on Reddit,
Now they beggin’ for credit.
But you never will get it,
don’t you ever forget it.
To you phony producers,
I’m like Tony LaRussa,
‘Cause I’m holding the Cards,
And I won’t let you use them.

WWCD? CDGAF.

by JStymie on Nov 22, 2011 9:35 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Remember that time the Angels had Mike Napoli in their organization?

Yea, they have been reduced to this:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/angels-eyeing-hanigan-in-search-for-catcher.html

"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister

Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO

by VolsnCards5 on Nov 22, 2011 9:42 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

remember that time when VEB was all like

“no way man, no way we could do a better job at GM – we just don’t have the leadership skills. those are way more important than not trading Napoli for Vernon Wells or signing Madson to a 4 year 44 million dollar extension.”

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

oh man...

they should just toss Conger out there…

Sign Roy O

by guayzimi on Nov 22, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Welp

I dropped my computer off the top bunk. It still works perfectly, somehow, but there’s a nice white slash on the top right of the screen. Hope there’s nothing there that I need.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2011 11:08 PM EST reply actions  

i dropped my slide phone

while it was open, and it has a crack on the screen, the only difference is the audio..hopefully thats all yours will be?

because TLR

by punchinjudy on Nov 23, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

so far nothing seems to be wrong, except for the gash in the screen

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Do your W key and your ooo key still work ?

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 23, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

My roommate dropped his laptop from his bed which is about 8 feet off the ground last year

the screen wasn’t working for about a month while he was using his tv for his monitor, then one day the monitor just worked all of a sudden. I found it pretty odd so I’m sharing this story with you all.

THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!

by CodyG on Nov 23, 2011 12:21 AM EST up reply actions  

my buddy was doing some warmups for softball

using a medicine ball in his apartment. He was doing some trunk rotations and the ball slipped out of his hands and landed right on the screen of his laptop. . . 20 feet away. He had to use his tv for his monitor until he picked up a replacement laptop.

I found this story odd and amazing so I shared it with you all.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 23, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

hey i didn't say you could care for me you sonuvabitch

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions  

you will be forced to cover all legal costs of your actions

the firm VEB will not support you

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 23, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm innocent of anything!

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 23, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Man, I love this song

just for all the samples from Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 23, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

this thread is bizarre.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

you're surprised?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm just noting the outlier

in terms of bizarreness

also, is Cody sexually harassing VEP?

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

so who wants a not-so-liveblog of the Peabody Opera World Series Film Premiere Gala To-Do?

It was like the last gasp of ELEVEN.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 12:36 AM EST reply actions  

sum up of the DVD itself

warning for some extreme closeups of the notable injuries, with no warning. (oh ADAM no!)
also warning for Burwell. Rosenthal and Verducci too.
there is no Torty, no explanation of Happy Flight (or audio of the pennant chant thereof), but that squirrel… that squirrel got quite a cheer and lots of airtime. VEB is still the best catalog of the menagerie of memes, and their backstories.
besides the core, Motte, Craig, and Freese carry the bulk of the narrative … lots of love for Craig, finally.
Wash seems to be into the zombie metaphor.
baseball-wise, there were plenty of trivial records broken which were not listed by the production. they hit the highlights, I guess, but the completist in me was not real happy.
and last but not least………. worth it simply for the gems of Lance Berkman.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. I wanted to hear something about torty...

I was a little sorry we didn’t see more of Furcal – at least one of those amazing plays.

by peach concrete on Nov 23, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, more Furc would have been good.

But then, I was reminded of how little we saw of Theriot when they showed him striking out in the 9th of Game 6.

#HappySeason

by The Continental on Nov 23, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Is this

the “STL Cardinals 2011 Official World Series Championship Film” as sold as a DVD on Amazon for $13.99 ?

http://www.amazon.com/Cardinals-2011-Official-World-Championship/dp/B005CXOGB4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322027471&sr=8-1

Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.

by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 23, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Was it just me, or did Berk look pretty chunky at the end?

Lots of big cheers from the crowd. They had that place rocking several times.

Trophy! Live and in person!

The Peabody is beautiful.

#HappySeason

by The Continental on Nov 23, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

He walked right past me!

I thought their treatment of Game 6 was excellent.

#HappySeason

by The Continental on Nov 23, 2011 1:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Rooney saying I don't want to spoil the end, but I know who wins

there was also a lot of wooooooo.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

THE SHIP SINKS

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

THEY SHOOT OLD YELLER

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Nov 23, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

And then everyone cries

11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 23, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

oh, overheard in the lobby

this little urchin, barely out of velociraptor stage, proclaiming that he would never wash this hand again. must’ve been some handshake.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

the audience watching the error sequences alone was worth it

because, y’know, now we can laugh about it, so there were a lot of rollercoaster whoaaaas at the slow motion replays of those.

the slowest of slomo was Freese’s missed pop-up. sadly they didn’t show the popup he did catch. really not enough with the defense that was good, which shorted Furcal in a big way.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

OH! in my sleep deprivation I forgot this.

I spotted the rare hard-working Goold. I was too far away to confirm it, but he had a media pass and looked exactly like D.Goold. he was up there on the south-west staircase on the phone as all the VIPs filed in.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

He was tweeting from the vicinity,

I’m not sure if he was in the area due to the Blues game, or the WS Film.

#HappySeason

by The Continental on Nov 23, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

It was really awesome to relive the season... loved the dvd.

If I have any complaints, it was that they built up the Game 6 Berkman RBI perfectly… I got chills… but then they raced through the Freese homerun. I wanted more build up to the game 6 walkoff… although I may have passed out and missed the build… Berkman gets me lightheaded.

"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig

by pattimagee on Nov 23, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I apologize to those of you who follow me on twitter

perhaps trolling my old buddies from college about their beloved Razorbacks was a bad idea.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 23, 2011 1:01 AM EST reply actions  

So far the Lozano thing has stayed on Deadspin

could turn out to be a non-issue after all.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2011 9:50 AM EST reply actions  

OMFG

ANKIEL!

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Red Baron's posts are never late.

They always arrive precisely when he means them to.

by mattybobo on Nov 23, 2011 10:46 AM EST reply actions  

Oh, hi there, SecondHalfMatt.

So, it turns out that the guy in your avatar is a piece of shit. And a sports agent. But I repeat myself.

#HappySeason

by The Continental on Nov 23, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Can I get a Cliff's Notes version of that article?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Dan Lozano is a two-faced liar

that loves whores and is bad at money. And is relying on the commission from Pujols’ next contract to save his ass.

But really, go read it.

#HappySeason

by The Continental on Nov 23, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

you missed the part

where when he split from his former partnership, he did so using borrowed money from players. Which is a conflict of interest. It will be interesting to see what Selig does with that if true.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, you know, Cliff Notes.

Covered under “bad at money”.

#HappySeason

by The Continental on Nov 23, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm assuming Lozano, as an agent, qualifies as a fiduciary

which means this could be more than league sanction or slap on the wrist stuff, if enough dirt comes to the surface.

my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Nov 23, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah

With enough dirt, I could see jail time coming. But I’m still surprised I haven’t heard it repeated anywhere but deadspin.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

to be honest, I didn't read the article and don't care to

the guy is depicted as a scumbag, I gathered that. But I was alluding more to civil liability for some kind of breach of fiduciary duty to his clients. Though maybe there was some kind of criminal fraud or what not touched on in the article.

my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Nov 23, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

providing prostitutes to players is clearly illegal

so I wouldn’t be surprised that there was other illegal activity going when someone starts digging.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

cocaine's a hell of a drug.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Debtors Prison!

"He probably misses his old glasses."

by Alxfritz on Nov 23, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

where there is smoke there is fire

nothing in the article would result in jail time. But the guy is in charge of a lot of peoples money, and he has personal money issues. It’s been suggested that has lied to his clients, and he has borrowed money from his clients.

I wouldn’t be too surprised if someone starts digging and finding stuff that could result in jail time.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

that being said

since this hasn’t been picked up anywhere. It might be a complete non story. The only indisputable evidence seems to be a picture of some lady’s crotch on his couch(and um, how many men in this country has two or three of those on their phones?) and the fact that he gives bad head.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I do!

yep, my phone can download from the internet

my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Nov 23, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

m f global anyone?

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Nov 23, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds kinda like a Ponzi, right?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

no, not really

my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Nov 23, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Just doesn't seem to have the same kind of

pyramid structure of paying off old investors with fresh investment, but I guess it has some Ponzi-like attributes if you stretched the analogy.

my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Nov 23, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree, it's not a Ponzi scheme

It is more analogous to a kickback. I think in most industries there would be nothing wrong with a client/advisor relationship where both go into a joint venture. Look at the ARod example — ARod joins Lozano because he has a stake in Lozano’s agency. ARod helps Lozano get additional clients. ARod gets a cut of the profits. In most businesses this would be fine.

However, with lawyers we have ethical responsibilities that preclude such relationships. How can Lozano give ARod advice because he not has a conflict of interest based upon the joint venture? This is the problem.

by OCCardsFan on Nov 23, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

he never graduated college.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

The guy looks like a dirtbag, but

having clients/players invest in your agency isn’t necessarily a conflict of interest. Even if it were, it could be knowingly waived by the client.

I mean, maybe it’s against MLBPA agent rules, but what’s that going to lead to? A fine? An adminstrative slap on the wrist?

by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 23, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed, as I noted above I think misrepresenting the value of offers would be a bigger deal

But if he were a lawyer this would be a conflict under Rule 5.4 — prohibiting creating a partnership or sharing profits with non-lawyers.

by OCCardsFan on Nov 23, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

the analogy is chapter 11

since he has no other source of earned income

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Nov 23, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually thought the most damning allegation

Was that he would misrepresent the value of contract offers to clients. Allegedly he would tell them the club had offered $800k when in fact the club offered $1m. Then he would accept the $1m offer and use it to argue to the player how well he had done. This would be a clear ethical breach.

by OCCardsFan on Nov 23, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

indeed.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

that and the borrowing money from clients

in terms of stuff that could actually put Lozano up shit creek, Deadspin really buried the lede. That makes sense, given that they’re clearing expecting the sex and sleaze to sell the article. If some other publication does the legwork to really document that stuff, he’s going to be in a hell of a lot of trouble.

by Robth on Nov 23, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Also is reported to have called Albert a "Dominican Monkey."

Also was deeply in debt at the time of Albert’s last contract, making him desperate to get it done, possibly to detriment of the contract. Also VEB is not impressed with his cunnilingus technique, which you may check out for yourself in the deadspin article if you so choose.

RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!

by a fink on Nov 23, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

/half of VEB looks up "cunnilingus"

my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Nov 23, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

hehe

teehee

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

In Lozano's defense

that guy could be anybody. Dang if he doesn’t have the same nose, though.

WWTD?

by peppermartin on Nov 23, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

i've typed up several responses to this

and then deleted them so not to offend our female members

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

12:00 – RB post
12:01 – Pujols Fires Lozano, announces he has represented himself in a 9 year, $150 million contract, with $2 million each year to be paid in deferred pies; Middle East reaches ironclad peace accord, World peace declared; all diseases cured; Space travel to the furthest reaches of the galaxy declared immediately scientifically feasible, ship launched; Kim Kardashian remarries, displacing all other news.

my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Nov 23, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

12:02 - pujols admits he is actually only 28

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Sizemore back with the Tribe.

$5 base, plus $4 in incentives.

#HappySeason

by The Continental on Nov 23, 2011 11:28 AM EST reply actions  

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie

by hazel on Nov 23, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

We don't have room for him anyway

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I would like to announce,

after giving it great thought, and sleeping on it, I have decided to add Jason Brannon to my official Asshat list.

This decision pains me greatly, and was not made in haste, but Jason Brannon is indeed, an asshat.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 11:34 AM EST reply actions  

who dat

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Must be this guy.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Nov 23, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

And I believe that RiverRat has made a fair decision.

As Brannon seems to believe LeBatard’s statements count as evidence.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Nov 23, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Also in those comments...

TOLAXOR!

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Nov 23, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I noticed this as well.

I had to contain myself from just shouting:
TOLAXOR!

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

And a solid DanUp comment.

Someone should ask Brannon about his views on water fluoridation.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Nov 23, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

He won't respond to either of my comments where I pointed out his Asshattery.

This impacted my decision.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

The using his own words against him was a nice touch.

The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...

Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski

by TBender on Nov 23, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Also, I certainly didn't think that DUB would have gone the Jamie Lee Curtis penis joke route.

I was impressed.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

lol @ stlcardsfan4

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

one thing the comments sort of touched on but hasn't really been mentioned much

is that pujols is an american citizen, correct? of course he would have to have a legit birth certificate to make that happen. i mean, this country certainly isn’t letting just anyone in on the promise that they are who they say they are.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

ahem.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

you need a cough drop or something

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Almost fritzish.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

lots of RiverRat comments over there that need recs

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 23, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, in fairness, only two.

Nice of you to just drop the asshat bomb, though.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

From, um, DanUp on, um, this page:
Apparently Albert Pujols AgeGate, for the first time in six or seven years, is going to be a Gate again this offseason. We ran a piece on Baseball Nation yesterday in which Rob Neyer, the first sabermetrician I ever read, and Jason Brannon, whom I don’t know but is apparently a Pujols birther in some just-kidding-but-seriously way, ran with much the same innuendo, and now that Le Batard has gotten pageviews for his trouble and run up the Google Trend you can expect to see more pieces about this in the next few weeks.

"He probably misses his old glasses."

by Alxfritz on Nov 23, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

there is a groupon today for a pet resort and day spa

wtf

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 11:44 AM EST reply actions  

I would love to unleash my lab on a place like that.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Arbitration and reclassified free agent types

With today being the deadline to offer arbitration to Class A and B, who do we offer it to? I’m thinking it will be Pujols and Jackson.

Another note I had missed….the reclassified free agents (of which Dotel is one) that went from A to B, the former team does NOT have to offer arbitration to receive a supplemental pick when that player signs with another team. If this is true, then Dotel is sure gone. Why sign a reliever for several million, when we can instead replace him with a cheaper in-house option (Sanchez) and get a supplemental first round pick at no risk of a player accepting arbitration?!

Link for reclassified free agents.

by Fleabottom on Nov 23, 2011 11:51 AM EST reply actions  

Octavio Dotel turning into a supplemental draft pick without risking arbitration really helps the return in the Rasmus trade. Also, winning the World Series.

"He probably misses his old glasses."

by Alxfritz on Nov 23, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep. I've made my peace with the trade.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

me too

he really struggled and took a step back last season. At this point, I’d like to see him succeed, regardless of what team it’s for.

my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Nov 23, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

but not too well

cause then we’d look stupid.

Bursting into song.

by Aranathor on Nov 23, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

It tells you how much I've moved on

Because I didn’t even think of the extra draft pick in terms of the Rasmus trade. I simply looked at it in terms of Dotel vs arbitration vs Draft pick, and the ability to remove arbitration from the equation.

by Fleabottom on Nov 23, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

hmmm...I think that ship has sailed

even though the #tradeworked, publicly criticizing your own player, depressing his trade value, then flipping him for what seems to be a below-market return was probably sufficient to make the organization look stupid, at least a little. But who cares, we won the WS
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Nov 23, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't think he's ever going to be as good as we all thought he would be

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

No I want him to make us look terrible

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't really want him to succeed

because I don’t like him as a person

RE-SIGN EVERYONE

by Notorious PSC on Nov 23, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

i heard he smokes pot

that’s right, i said it!

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

you know Colby as a person? cool

my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Nov 23, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

and she SAW skip schumaker the other day

so you and rasmus are practically bff

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

poop

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

We should offer to Furcal as well

I think he’s wanting too many years for the Cardinals, so offer him arb and let him sign elsewhere

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

No, no, no

The Cardinals can’t offer arbitration to Furcal, because a team is required to offer a minimum of 80% of the previous years salary, which means the Cardinals would have to have a minimum offer of 9.6M in arbitration. I agree he is looking for a multiyear deal, but that multiyear deal with have an average salary of 7M or less a year, which means he would absolutely accept a one year deal with the Cards at an inflated salary.

by Fleabottom on Nov 23, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree

A player at his age is probably looking at more guaranteed years rather than an inflated one year salary

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno, he'd be selling low by signing a long term deal after last year

I doubt he’d turn down a 1 year 9.6 million dollar deal.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno, the current MIF market indicates that there's a pretty good chance he gets like a 2 year $16 million offer

I think he’d take over an arb. But yeah, there’s always a risk that he accepts it. If he does, he’s an okay bet to be worth the contract

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Good chance?

I think there is a decent chance he get a 2 year $12M offer, but I do NOT think there is a good chance he gets 2/16M. I’m not sure the market will see him as a better option than Barmes.

by Fleabottom on Nov 23, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree strongly

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

this is a guy just one year removed from a 4+ WAR season

and he was injured. barmes has had exactly one 2+ WAR season, and that was 2011. before that he was at best a decent player.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Furcal's baseball reference page

has him as a 3.7 WAR player in 2010. But in the 4 years prior to that while he was in LA, he never exceeded 2.8 WAR. He is also a year and a half older than Barmes.

If he signs for an average salary of 8M+ on a multiyear deal, I will gladly admit I’m wrong. I just don’t see it happening, and I think it is foolish to offer him arbitration if there is any chance he accepts it.

by Fleabottom on Nov 23, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

okay guess i should have said fWAR

in 2009 he was worth 3.5 fWAR
in 2010 he was worth 4.2 fWAR

in 2009, barmes was worth 1.7 fWAR
in 2010 barmes was worth 0.6 fWAR

yes, furcal is older. but he’s also been a far better player in his career than barmes. i don’t understand the fascination with barmes anyway. i would be surprised if the pirates don’t end up regretting that deal.

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I had no interest in Barmes, and I’d much rather the Cards give Greene a shot at SS then pay for Barmes or Furcal.

I’m just not convinced the market will see Barmes and Furcal much differently. And if I was Furcal, and the Cardinals offered arbitration, I would accept fast than you can say “happy flight”.

by Fleabottom on Nov 23, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

overpaid
which leverages furky to be even more overpaid

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Nov 23, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't want to pay Furcal anywhere near 10 million

Punto and Greene is nearly as good as Furcal and whoever, and it would be soo much cheaper.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I don't either

But I think it’s a calculated risk that you take

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

With Pujols's salary putting them over $110M

So far, DeWitt and Co have stated that they still want a team budget around $110 for 2012, and with resigning Pujols likely to put the team near that mark (since they already have 80M tied up in existing players), I just don’t see the Cardinals taking that 10M risk with Furcal.

You may be right that the odds of Furcal accepting are not good, but I’m fairly sure the Cardinals will not risk it.

by Fleabottom on Nov 23, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I think of it this way

The probability of Furcal turning down arbitration times inflation/interest adjusted surplus value of a supplemental pick is greater than the probability of Furcal accepting arbitration times $10 million.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

not enough ">"

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

...

The probability of Furcal turning down arbitration times inflation/interest adjusted surplus value of a supplemental pick is greater than the probability of Furcal accepting arbitration times $10 million.

> tebow

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

less than three, IHB. less than three.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Also keep in mind

That 9.6M is the minimum he would get in arbitration. Most likely the Cardinals offer 9.6M and Furcal and his agent offer a higher number and they settle somewhere in the middle.

by Fleabottom on Nov 23, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, yeah

I don’t think that changes the equation too much

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

draft pick isn't worth that much

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Conjecture much?

I mean, sure, Greene MIGHT finally realize his talent and become a good MLB baseball player, but iit’s nowehere near a certainty.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Nov 23, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course it's not a certainty

It’s also not a certainty that Furcal won’t get injured and bat .220 again.

On average Greene is likely to be within a win of Furcal next year.

Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

one cannot surmise that he will continue to play at his current mlb number, given small sample size

and of course, should not expect him to put up his AAA numbers. so, one would expect somewhere in between. bill james seems to think he will do this:

.316 wOBA

 with at least a touch above average defense… I’d like to see what he does given his minor league track record

11!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 23, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Given how inflated the shortstop market seems to be this year

his value is likely to be high enough that it’s worth it to him to decline arb. I’m very surprised to be saying this, but I do come down on the side of offering him arb at this point.

Although it’s good for the team to get the supplementary pick, I am a little sad that this probably closes the book on us and Dotel. It was really nice to have the veteran part of the bullpen be effective for a little while (at least the right-handed veteran part).

by Robth on Nov 23, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

oh, absolutely

on a rational level, there’s no way that he could provide as much surplus value as a supplemental round draft pick. But that doesn’t change the fact that I liked having him as a player.

by Robth on Nov 23, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

a squirrel? who throws a *squirrel*

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

He was worth .9 WAR for us in 24 IP!

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the key to next year's bullpen

Boggs must absolutely, positively Not Suck. it puts a lot of pressure on the roles if Motte actually moves into permanent not-closer. everybody moves up, and that opens up some pretty huge gaps.

I really hope what’s left of the Flash Cards* can hold the fort.

*meme only necessary because of my terrible memory

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, he can suck a little bit

He’s likely the 4th RHP option after Motte, Salas, and Sanchez.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

And Reifer might be ready and could outplay him too.

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen

by Cardinals645 on Nov 23, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

No guarantee

There is no guarantee that he gets the multiyear deal he is looking for anyways. So would you rather take the guaranteed nearly 10 MIL in arbitration or try to find a two/three year deal?

Anyways, we shall find out in a few hours if the Cardinals offer him arbitration, but I would put it at around 1% chance that they would offer it to him.

by Fleabottom on Nov 23, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

No guarantee, but I think it's very, very likely he gets a multiyear offer

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter

by mysterui on Nov 23, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

Furcal will likely get a 2 year deal. Just not at a yearly average that justifies passing up a one year/9.6M offer

by Fleabottom on Nov 23, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

some people like knowing for sure that they'll have that whole $16 million

because if he signs a one year deal, he can be left with only have $9.6 million if he gets hurt. Or have a really bad year, be be looking to sign for $1-2 million the following year.

Grit != flat out sucking.

by Evilfrog on Nov 23, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

with his history
like carp
he may go for the best total guaranteed money
if i were him i’d take 3/21 over 2/16

what’s he gonna do otherwise, take knitting classes?

TLR is gone, long live the king

by sportsman on Nov 23, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

he could always pull a pedro

go home and garden with his mama

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Tis Wednesday,

things are just returning to normal.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Nov 23, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

RB lured David Freese with a red carpet

just getting up.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll just leave that there.

would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 23, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

did you guys know that baron has a

thread up

You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein

2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

by IHeartBoog on Nov 23, 2011 1:55 PM EST reply actions  

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