Albert Pujols's free agency (and avoiding Albert Pujols's free agency)
by DanUpBaby on Nov 11, 2011 9:18 AM EST
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PrintSo, anybody hear any good jokes lately? Or any bad ones? Or any baseball news not related to Albert Pujols meeting with the Miami Marlins today or tomorrow? I'm not a reporter, and I have no sources, and even if I were a reporter with sources I would have a hard time writing about Albert Pujols meeting with the Miami Marlins without ending it "I'm begging you." This is what free agency is like; it is conventional but not pleasant. Until news with content that can be analyzed comes out, I'm going to try very hard to think some catchy tune into my head whenever Pujols reports come up.
So, other stuff:
Ryan Jackson is hitting .356/.441/.475 in 18 Arizona Fall League games, which is pretty nice—that's 21 hits, five doubles, a triple, and nine walks, if you're interested, coming off a basically league-average performance in AA at 23. I'm not one to look a useful offensive season from an apparently brilliant defensive shortstop in the mouth, but the Texas League and the AFL should engender at least a little skepticism at this point.
Brendan Ryan's age-23 season—you know you were wondering about it—looks relatively similar, in hindsight; he hit .289/.349/.395 between Palm Beach and Springfield that year. The difference, if you're looking to be optimistic, is that he did it in just 92 games—Ryan the elder was in the middle of a run of injuries that cost him a year-and-a-half of development and ended with him getting called up in 2007 despite a .668 Memphis OPS in his ultimately, inexplicably successful comeback season.
Jackson's had no such problems, and has shown more home run power (11 this year) than Ryan ever did. If the Cardinals sign Rafael Furcal to a one-year deal to man shortstop in 2012 I'd be surprised if we don't see Jackson at some point, whether he's ready or not.
I was sad, as a member of the Hyperventilating Prospect Geek Fraternity since before Dean Strauss ever tried to get us kicked off campus, to see Daryl Jones go to the Reds as a free agent. Jones hasn't done much since emerging as DJ Tools in 2008, but he's no older than Adron Chambers and, I think, still no less likely to emerge as a useful backup outfielder.
But Jon Jay's left-handedness complicates life for both Chambers and Jones (and also ruins my plan to push for the Cardinals signing Norichika Aoki away from the Yakult Swallows.) My current pick for backup center fielder/platoon partner is Andruw Jones; he's got an OPS of .837 over his last two years and even now could probably fake center better than, say, Allen Craig.
Mating platoon outfielders is my Pujols stress reaction. If this whole process takes long enough I might manage to construct an entire 25-man roster out of them.
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I'll be really interested to see what the Cards do at CF next year
I imagine it will have a lot to do with what happens with that free agent 1B out there
Would produce quite a few HR, and a hell of alot of KKKs
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
No 3 K'ers
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
a lot of 3 strikeouts?
"Sometimes we're not good enough, but our hearts are always good enough" -- Tony La Russa
strike outs are fascist, of course
maybe you too though. how often do you strike out?
HAPPY FLIGHT!!!
Running list of Molina pick-offs | twit
Their on a mission from GOBs
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
They're
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Jose Reyes "almost a done deal" to Marlins
The Miami Marlins are going all out
They have a new stadium, a new manager and they are going to be real big spenders this offseason. And yes I think they are going to offer Albert a TON of cash even if they sign Jose Reyes. Scary stuff.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
I think I read somewhere they wanted to bump payroll $23 million
Doesn’t leave much room for Reyes AND Pujols.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
This hope the pull the trigger on Reyes and his aging / injury historied legs
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Pujols value in not as reliant on his legs, provided he can actually still walk around the bases while admiring his HRs
Reyes is heavily reliant on his legs
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
attributed...
Couldn’t be his swing mechanics, and zone expansion, while trying desperately to reach the numbers could it? + it seems to me over last few years he is swinging for the fence more than before. When is the last time he scolded a reporter for talking HR totals? He used to adamantly state he’s a power hitter…haven’t heard that in 3 or 4 years.
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Don't you think you might change your swing if your legs are hurt?
I guess you never saw that fanshot video where you can see his legs being weird.
And I’ve always heard Albert refer to himself as a line drive hitter who happens to hit home runs.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Nov 11, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
o/
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
When is last time he said it? I haven't heard it for a while now
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know what difference that makes.
We’ve already established that it’s obvious he’s remade himself mainly as a pull hitter. I just was correcting your statement.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
I don't recall that at all.
In fact I recall the exact opposite. He’s stated many time that he’s a line drives/ gap hitter, and home runs come from that.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Concur he did say that, that was my point, but haven't heard it for last few years
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
My point was,
I’ve never, not once, heard Albert say:
He used to adamantly state he’s a power hitter…
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Are you saying my grammar was incorrect?
I didn’t put quotes around what you put in text box. No big deal I guess I’m not doing it right
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
I was quoting you,
thus the block quotes. That’s all.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
In my mind at the time power hitter = line drive hitter as opposed to HR hitter
Don’t know why I was thinking that
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yes BUT
he made a statement earlier this year or last year that we was trying to hit more fly balls.
My SBN foo is not good enough to find the day we talked about it.
Whether or not he said it, it's pretty obvious it's true
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
is it
he may be trying but he’s not been very successful at it.
source image in case this one is squashed
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Pretty clear upward trend, with the exception of this year
Also, league averages!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
good point about league averages.
but i wouldn’t label it a trend…
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Jose-Albert-LeBron-Dwayne at the club
Sorry, rest of guys at the club.
by YepYouGuessedIt...CardinalRed on Nov 11, 2011 3:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Chris Bosh is watching the kids?
"Congratulations to the Cardinals! Such a fun world series." - Salman Rushdie
Depends on who you listen to.
Jorge Sedano of 790 AM The Ticket in Miami reports that free agent Jose Reyes signing with the Marlins is “almost a done deal.”
This report should be taken with a huge grain of salt. Not only would it be hugely surprising if Reyes signs with the first team he visits with, but we don’t anticipate that it will be Sedano that breaks the news of the signing of one of the biggest offseason fish (pun intended). Nevertheless, it’s clear that the Marlins are a real player for the shortstop. If he is brought in, Hanley Ramirez would have to change positions.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
kind of think a lot of mind games going on
eg, jose, of you don’t take this deal, we’re giving the money to the other jose called albert
TLR is gone, long live the king
why are they going after reyes when they already have a SS
i don’t understand that.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Because they'll move Hanley to third base.
His defense isn’t very good at shortstop and he is destined to move anyway. Why not replace him with Reyes?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i guess. it still seems odd to me
but i suppose the FA class isn’t very good this year, so if you’re looking to rebuild, you just want to take the best players available.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
They have matt dominguez, second base makes more sense.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
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Apparently, Aoki has 3 balls?
Because part of the reasoning for his down year is he’s “adjusting a new ball”.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 9:40 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Was he ever on the DL
for ball replacement surgery? Or perhaps ball adjustment treatment?
IHeartIHeartBoog
gibby45 is one of the less creepy people on this blog. - IHeartBoog
Hey now, you laugh
But Adrian Beltre missed 3 weeks of the 2009 season because he was on the DL with a “highly contused right testicle”
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 11, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Isn't that when it gets twisted?
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Nov 11, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
No, that's testicular torsion.
contused=contusion=bruise (basically)
Beltre refuses to wear a cup, ever.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Beltre is a dumbass, evidently.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure I read (possibly here) that he paid daily fines for not wearing a cup while coming up in the Dodgers' system.
Literally paid money for the privilege of NOT wearing a cup.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
who needs a cup
when you have the Dong Glove®
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 11, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
then he deserves the occasional nutshot
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
or ball enhancement surgery?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
DanUp, it's time to change your name to Dennis
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 9:54 AM EST reply actions
Relax everyone,
Jeff Gordon says Albert is a poor fit for Miami.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
well that makes me feel better.
I’m about as ambivalent as I can be about it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Easily the most reassuring Albert news has been Nolan Ryan saying, "We don't want him."
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Let's see
Rangers, BoSox and Yankees are out of it. That leaves, us, Angels(?), Cubs and Marlins in it? Who else? I doubt the Dodgers make a move unless MLB bankrolls them like they did the Natinals.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
really, i think it comes down to the nats and marlins
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
by Oedipa Maas on Nov 11, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
I forgot about the Nats.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Well...
Orioles and Mariners probably aren’t going to be contending anytime soon. Giants maybe.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Nov 11, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
I almost included the Giants.
It’s not like Aubrey Huff is going to block that possibility.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Brandon Belt might.
Though I don’t think the Giants brass likes him much, for some reason.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
shit. I knew that Huff wasn't the one I was thinking of
that kept me from including them.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I highly doubt the Os drop that kind of cash
just doesn’t seem like the mindset of folks here in bahldimore.
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
by Oedipa Maas on Nov 11, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Heh.
Angelos would sign him and then sue him for underperformance.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
I think you're thinking of
Bawlamer.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
i've actually heard that the tigers want to move miggy to 3b and sign ap
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
where was that?
That’s a new one on me. but not completely implausible.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
let me see if i can find it.
a friend who is a tigers fan sent me an article awhile ago – while the playoffs were still going on.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
That makes no sense to me.
Cabrera was a bad defensive third baseman when he played for Florida and was twenty or thirty pounds lighter. He’s be atrocious at third base nowadays.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Offense over defense?
that would be the trade off.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Moving Albert to third would make more sense than Cabrera to third.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
I meant that trading defense for offense doesn't work
I mean, when is the last time a team won a championship doing that?
(And yes, I know we were much better defensively by the end of the year, I was just trying to make a funny)
Yea, I noticed that
But really wanted to jump in with my comment.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you though
I guess the Tigers could put Cabrera at DH, but then what would they do with Victor Martinez? Isn’t he their primary DH?
it's a possibility
as much as anything is. and, yeah, martinez would be stuck.
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
And it would be quite a tradeoff.
Even more significant than the Berkman tradeoff. Cabrera is a whale in terms of physique and, I suspect, mobility.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You're right.
I was just thinking that if Panda can play over there, then maybe Miggy could pull it off. But that would be a pretty desperate move to try.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
and that's a gigantic maybe
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Holy crap.
How the hell is Miggy only 28? It seems to me like guys who I’ve been hearing about for 7-8 years take on a decade or more of MLB experience in my mind. In my head, Miguel Cabrera is 32. Also, according to B-Ref, he’s 6-4 and only weighs 240. That is not huge, so something’s amiss if he’s as big as you’re indicating (haven’t seen any recent pics of him). Fielder is said to be 5-11 and weigh 275, and he’s BIG.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
no way he's 240.
I’m 5’9 and 240 so he’s gotta be heavier than that. And I’m not in bad shape.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Big boned?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
him or me?
In his case, maybe so. He’s got a big frame, but he’s rather round and I can’t think that it’s all flab.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
You, "big boned" adds to your overall weight
Argument works against Cabrera at 6’4"/240
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
I guess.
heavy frame with muscle packed on it. I think the ideal weight for a person of large frame at 5’9 is maybe 185-190. I had that beat in HS and I hadn’t put on near the muscle mass yet.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe I imagined this, but I think I saw that Panda put up really high UZR/150 this year.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
he was worth 1.5 dWAR on Bref.
This just comes from not watching other teams enough.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Nope, it's real. 17.9 uzr/150
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
the big man can move, I guess
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Best shape of his life.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Albert will hit 60 HR in DC
and he fills a huge void at 1B. The Nats should be in serious contention in the AP sweepstakes.
Personally, I don't get the Angels thing. They have Trumbo AND Morales already.
Who are the Fielder suitors?
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Just saying that they are one of the few teams that could have the money
to make a move like that.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I see.
I bet the Yankees would still have enough money though.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
I don't see either Albert or Texiera settling for DH.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
No, I don't think so either.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
They need their DH spot
For all their old players
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Nov 11, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
But Posada says he's not coming back to the Yankees.
I guess they’ve told him they don’t want him anymore…(sniff). So…I was thinking they might move ARod to DH, but I just checked his D at FG, and apparently he had an excellent year in the field, his first positive fielding rating since 2004.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
And they are going to have to Man up to be ready when Dodgers get back on a sound footing with new ownership
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
I would say that Fielder has the same teams.
Somebody is going to throw a boatload of cash his way.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
See, this makes me worry that we're being too optimistic about the Albert situation.
Somebody has to sign these guys. There HAVE to be other teams with serious interest that are willing to commit, right? (I hope not.)
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
I'd throw the Mets in there, as well. If they weren't having the problems they are.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not so worried about it.
I think we can still have a pretty good team without him. And if he’s that willing to hang an albatross around the teams neck, then he doesn’t want to win that badly and stay in St.Louis. We just have to find another way to win is all. I’m really not that excited to see a limping, old Albert in 5-6 years and still know that we have to pay him for at least another couple of years.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
normally, i agree
but there is a weird confluence of situations that i think will keep teams willing to spend that kind of money out of it. neither the mets nor dodgers have the cash, and i’m inclined to think the cubs won’t either with a stadium refit in their future. the angles, yanks, and sawks just don’t have the room. I may be wrong about the angels, but they’d have to do something with morales, and they’re already flush with unwieldy contracts.
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
by Oedipa Maas on Nov 11, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
this is all true
In truth, we’re just literally going to have to sit and watch until all the players show themselves.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Other than the Wells contract, what else is ugly over there?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
not a big fan of the hunter contract. he has another year at 18.5
and they have a 2 or 3 more years of weaver at 16, i think. but really, I was mostly thinking of wells. I’m just not sure a team can afford two massive deals like that.
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
Actually
Weaver will be getting 14, 16, 16, 18 and 20 over the next 5 years, along with a full NTC. He’s averaged 4.05 WAR for the 6 years he’s pitched, and 5.7 over the last two years. And he’s still fairly young at 29 (about a year younger than Waino). If he can average, say, 4.5 WAR/year for the life of the contract, and if WAR is valued at, what, $4.1 mil per point value (can’t find the current value), 4.5×5 = 22.5 WAR, x $4.1 mil = $92.25. The value of the contract is only $85 mil, so this looks like it could be good value.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not considering value
just conjecturing about the likelihood of the team expanding payroll.
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
Yeah, I sorta went overboard, really just pointing out that his contract is for the next 5
not just 2-3 years.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
You would think
then again, I am still perplexed as to why the Yankees didn’t offer Holliday more than 120/7 (if they offered him anything at all).
it's because Brett Gardner is REALLY GOOD.
and by that point, Yanks had already traded for Granderson.
by tehzachatak on Nov 11, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
The market is what the market is.
Look at the Holliday free agency as an example.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yea, I want to believe this is a repeat of that, and it certainly seems very possible.
But I secretly fear that it’s just wishful thinking and my hopes of a team-friendly (ish) Albert contract will be crushed.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think Pujols will sign a team-friendly deal.
It’s a question of just how un-friendly it is to the team that signs him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Trumbo is "serviceable" and Morales has been on the shelf for two years.
Neither of these dudes “blocks” a team from bidding for Pujols.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 11, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
It’s even more true with the DH available to Anaheim.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You totally did, but check out the time stamp on the link.
It’s from this morning; he must have said it some other time too. I swear I wasn’t secretly hiding this post from you whilst pretending not to know about it.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
It was an older quote in a current article I think
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
What's weird is that is should still be archived on MLBTR
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
why it was only like last week or two ago
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
I searched for it, and couldn't find it at all
And I think hr did too. Thus our confusion.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
The search skills are not strong in this one
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Were you able to find the original article with that quote?
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
You have to search in 'comments"
Search window defaults to “stories”
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
What? We're talking about the actual Nolan Ryan quote.
hr read it claims he read it like a week ago. We’re trying to find the post on MLBTR in which hr read that quote.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I thought he was looking for validation that he had said it on VEB before
Also, in today’s article it was a previous quote used in a current article further proof…never mind then
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Look up
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Been wondering ...
Can we win / make the playoffs without Albert? What do you think?
IHeartIHeartBoog
gibby45 is one of the less creepy people on this blog. - IHeartBoog
In the NL Central in 2012? Yeah.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 11, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Definitely.
I was wondering if the team would actually be better off (strictly in terms of chances to win) by grabbing Furcal, Oswalt, and Barmes rather than Furcal and Pujols.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
i don't think so
Oswalt and Barmes are not as valuable as Albert.
by tehzachatak on Nov 11, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Oswalt, Barmes, and the defensive difference you make up from moving Berkman to 1B and Craig to RF.
Still might not be, but I think it’s closer than I originally would have suspected.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
i'm not sure what Barmes does once we already have Furcal
if we’re signing Furcal anyway, i think i’d just rather have Punto back.
by tehzachatak on Nov 11, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
I'm with this
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Barmes>Punto
Much better defensively and also insures us against Furcal injuries.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Barmes is much better defensively than Punto?
i have a hard time believing this.
by tehzachatak on Nov 11, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
maybe at SS, specifically, yes, but it still can't be by very much
and Punto plays ++ defense at 2B and 3B too.
by tehzachatak on Nov 11, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
If we're signing a backup, Punto makes more sense because he'll be much cheaper.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Barmes would start at 2B, unless Furc got hurt.
Then he shifts to SS and Descalso/Greene take over.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
this very much this
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
For what it's worth
Fangraphs sez: Barmes has a career UZR/150 at SS of 7.2, whereas Punto’s is 18.1. Punto is a really good defender.
They are actually more comparable than I realized.
Their career UZR/150s and wRC+ are really similar, and Barmes is only two years younger. For the likely price, Punto really might be preferable.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Yea I thought the gap between the two was wider.
But apparently it’s much more a function of playing time.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
You must be kidding. You must not have seen Barmes play SS very much.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 11, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Barmes is one of the best SS in baseball defensibly
He is also 2 yrs younger that Punto. and hits better
by Redbird99_98 on Nov 11, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Punto is also likely one of the best SS in baseball defensively
All Zach is saying is that Barmes isn’t THAT much better
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Punto's arm scared me at SS this season
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Well I mean, that was an obvious health issue
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
His arm scared me everywhere this season after he injured it.
I’ve been meaning to look at his game logs. It seemed that he only played 2B after his arm injury.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think so too
there was one throw in particular that stuck out where it looked like he was throwing a frisbee across the diamond. UGLY
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Punto is getting older, a bit heavier, and his arm looks like crap.
Frankly, I don’t think Punto is really good at SS anymore. Three to five years ago, I’d have said he was good. Now, he’s fine, and his career UZR/150 at SS is still shiny.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 11, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Yes and Yes
2011 Cardinals + Adam Wainwright + Hanley rameriz or Jose Reyes + Craig getting 600 PAs – Pujols = Still able to win in the NL and able to move on into the playoffs.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Ramifications
Not sure we wouldn’t be better (presupposing a healthy Reyes/Hanley). And we wouldn’t be mortgaging the future to do it. I’d rather have Pujols too, but anything over 5-125 will be something that the Cardinals seriously regret within the next 3-4 years—and I don’t think that comes anywhere close to getting it done.
Does anyone have a feel for what it would take to pry Hanley from the Marlins? With his salary and injuries it might not be as much as it seems at first blush.
absolutely.
cincy needs arms, and milwaukee will be missing a fielder.
but i’d rather have him back
Do it for Torty.
Happy Flight!
by Oedipa Maas on Nov 11, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Yes if they sign Furc or another decent FA SS esp if they somehow improve 2nd
Other than Pujols my thinking is that SS should be the highest priority
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Former Red Sox manager Terry Francona badly wants to manage the Cubs
a source very close to Francona tells Dave van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-1111-francona-cubs-chicago—20111111,0,6017564.story?track=rss
I say let him. I would rather have Sandberg or Matheny.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
Why in the world would you want to manage the Cubs in their current stage
No Major League Talent, bad minor league system, and bad contracts for the next couple years
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 11, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
There is legendary upside potential if he signs with the Cubs, and he can only come second best to TLR in 2011, if....Cards repeat in 2012
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Francona...
believes it was his destiny to give Championships to long-suffering franchises. It’s the only explanation.
by mynameistyler on Nov 11, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Next stop
Houston and the Rangers
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Nov 11, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Also been wondering ...
What are the five worst contracts right now in the majors? What are the best recent FA signings? What does that say StL should do with Albert?
IHeartIHeartBoog
gibby45 is one of the less creepy people on this blog. - IHeartBoog
Ryan Howard has to be far and away the worst contract.
But I think fangraphs has a more thorough list.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
...
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
One of the first things that came to mind was Alex Rodriguez
And that list has him as the very worst in baseball. Which is crazy, as he’s been about a 4 WAR player the last couple years. His contract is just so insane.
I as gonna say Arod
sure makes you worry about giving Pujols a mega-contract, huh? Not that Arod is a bad player, but there’s just no positive return on a contract when you go that big. Thankfully, the Cards can’t afford to go that big, I think.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
I don't see why anybody would threaten to actually give Pujols a contract like Rodriguez, though
Rodriguez, I think, should kind of be treated like a special case. He already had the first “most ridiculous contract ever” with the Rangers (though he actually was that good still) and then the New York Yankees decided that since they could basically afford anything they wanted, they would just go ahead and give him another one. I don’t think any other team in baseball would do that for Albert Pujols.
Pujols and his agent might say they want a contract like Rodriguez’s current one, but I just don’t see it happening. I think they’re going to have to “settle” for something with a couple fewer years and closer to 20 million than 30 million per year.
Howard
A “non-star”?
Bullshit.
by Cheeseballs on Nov 11, 2011 1:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
1.6 and 1.4 WAR
the last two years. You want me to name same players who produced similarly, or even better than that level. Are you prepared to call all those guys stars?
I mean, sure, to some degree this is just a an argument over semantics. Of course he is a “star” in the sense ESPN gives him a ton of coverage and he makes a ton of money and has been an MVP, but in the last few years he certainly isn’t a star by virute of the numbers he’s put up. Unless you’re only going by RBIs I guess.
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
Howard has a Subway endorsement deal.
That may mean he’s a “star” in the fame sense of the definition if not the production sense of the definition.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
He only has 3 war over the last two years combined?!?
I know he was overrated but wow..
by Redbird99_98 on Nov 11, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
ryan howard, at (almost) 32
has accumulated 23.1 WAR
david freese at 28 has accumulated 4.4 WAR.
who finishes his career with a higher total WAR?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I mean, the Lafayette thing is mostly statistical cherry picking on my part
Still, it’s weird how mediocre Ryan Howard can be given how good he is thought of being. There aren’t very many players for whom the “conventional wisdom” is so wrong.
Freese has had a higher fWAR than Howard two years in a row
So that’s the only way in which he is now “better”. It’s not incredibly significant, but it’s not nothing.
And done so in spite of playing half as many games.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
well yeah, that's exactly why i brought this up
conventional wisdom would suggest that freese could never even dream of matching howard’s production through his career. but then you look at the numbers, and its not as out there as you might have thought.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
It'll be really interesting to see over the next few years
I really hope Freese can sustain most of what he has been doing. If the BABIP goes down maybe he’ll actually ad some more non-playoff power to compensate. And health, of course.
Agreed.
I mean, have you seen Freese’s BABIP?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Wanted to read that as
“Howard has a huge head…”.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
keep in mind the following:
1) howard is on the decline, posting only 1.4 and 1.6 WAR the last two years
2) howard might not even play a full season next year, and who knows how effective he will be if he does
3) freese needs to average 4.7 WAR per year to match howard when he’s 32
4) freese had 2.7 WAR this year in only 363 PAs
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Oh, it's possible
It could be that Howard’s above average years are just done and Freese will finally put together some sustained health. Three or four years of 3-4 WAR could make the comparison much more interesting. I just wouldn’t bet on Howard continuing to suck that much just yet.
I also totally forgot that Howard's health is a big question mark in the immediate future
Because of the hamstring injury (I think it was hamstring?).
No, it's his left Achilles tendon
already had surgery, and the stitches were removed a couple of weeks ago. Phillies think he might be back by April.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, ok
Well, that makes me happy. The initial prognosis I kept hearing had a really large range of possible return times. I was worried he’d end up missing half the year or something.
it would be like trading for an all star first baseman
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Nov 11, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and they wouldn't even have to give anyone up..
"I wonder if I put on a uniform and told La Russa I wanted to play for him if I could be a big leaguer too?"
"that all depends. are you gritty?" "You would need a mediocre decade of MLB experience first" "do you have a goatee, are you short, and do you try really hard?" "Are you willing to play four positions terribly?"
Too lazy to rec all of these
so you guys can share one
You only did it so that you could wear terry underwear and feel the city air run past your body
by lunchboxbomb on Nov 11, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
exactly.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
3 seems like a huge stretch given his BABIP and health issues
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by stlcardsfan4 on Nov 12, 2011 3:46 AM EST up reply actions
Freese will be worth 20 WAR next year
write it down
I would have said the Vernon Wells deal.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
just to name a few...
Vernon Wells
Barry Zito
Carlos Zambrano
Adam Dunn
Barry Zito
Jayson Werth
Alfonso Soriano
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
i'm not sold on dunn yet
he had a terrible, terrible year. but i don’t think he’s done yet.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
heh.
A “done” pun.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
"Done" puns are so easy
It takes skill to make a “dun” pun. But maybe we’re just getting into shades of grey.
by mattybobo on Nov 11, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
nicely done
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 11, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently
when thou hast done thou hast not Dunn
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
Heh.
-2.9 fWAR.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 11, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I do, his K rate was terrible.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
But why was it more terrible than other years?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Because Dunn is done.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
as both of our fantasy teams proved this year.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'd give him another year, frankly
He lost his swing this year. That can happen, and I’d assume that would drive his K rate up.
If he starts next year in the same funk, yeah, maybe he’s done.
And even more proof that Kenny Williams isn’t a good GM.
So would I.
My tongue was in my cheek. I’ll likely pick him and Crawford up in my fantasy drafts next year if they are available in later rounds.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
his walk rate actually jumped, which is sort of amusing.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
not sure, he's chasing more outside the zone
but he lost almost all his power this year too.
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he's whiffing at everything
FA 10.7% of the time
SL 17%
CH 23%
two seamer 13.7%
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Worst contracts
Howard 2012 – 2016 5/125
Werth 2011 – 2017 7/126
Crawford 2011 – 2017 7/142
Wells 2008 – 2014 7/126
Lackey 2010 – 2014 5/82.5
Soriano 2007 – 2014 8/136
Zito 2007 – 2013 7/126
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 11, 2011 10:27 AM EST reply actions
too early to tell with some of these
Carwford, eg. I don’t think it will ever end up being a good contract, but it could end up bring far from deserving of “worst” status
my favorite words are goodbye and my favorite color is red
Anything can happen in the future, of course
but Crawford has a career OPS of .773
John Jay has a career OPS of .773
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 11, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Crawford also has stolen tons of bases.
He’s turned a lot of singles into doubles. That doesn’t show up in OPS.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not exactly sure what you mean
I understand the stolen bases not showing up in OPS part, but not “turning singles into doubles”. Unless you are just saying that stealing second base is essentially turning a single into a double? I would be curious what linear weights have to say about that.
My point is that
if we are just saying that his speed helps him hit doubles that would be singles for other players, that does show up in OPS.
I'm pretty sure he's saying that stealing 2nd from a single is bascially turning a single into a double
something that jon jay will never be able to do
Carl Crawford WAR in 2011
0.0
John Jay WAR in 2011 1.3
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 11, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Crawford has had 1 bad year...
I’m not exactly ready to declare Jay a superior player……………………………………………………..
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Nor am I
but Crawford’s contract is off to such a bad start.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 11, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Jay was worth 2.8
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Twitter
On Fangraphs, yes.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
it is absolutely not turning a single into a double
as people have pointed out time and time again. a single + a SB is considerably less valuable than a double.
by tehzachatak on Nov 11, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
the SBs still add value
it’s just less than doubles.
by tehzachatak on Nov 11, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
leading off an inning, which he has done a lot of....
its virtually the same thing
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
this is a silly justification.
why does Crawford “lead off an inning” more than other players? he doesn’t bat leadoff.
by tehzachatak on Nov 11, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
He has about 370 or so games a leadoff hitter...
during that time he stole a shit ton of bases.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
fair enough
didn’t realize he had batted leadoff that much. i still think this is a silly comparison, but i get your point.
by tehzachatak on Nov 11, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
There are situations where it is basically the same thing, sure
It’s just a little deceptive to totally make them equivalent. I’m not saying that is what you were doing above, but it sounded like maybe you were at first. It’s just best to keep the differences in mind.
yeah...its unbelievable that I even have to explain
why a .773 OPS with a ton of SB’s is better than a .773 OPS with no SB’s.
That was my only point. Everyone can feel free to twist and turn it however they feel.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I was just honestly confused about a specific part of your comment, sorry if I came across as pedantic (I guess maybe I was a little)
I think comparing Jay and Crawford is a little silly, but the straight-up OPS comparison did make a decent point. That is, Crawford has never been an elite hitter, and gets his value from the overall package of being a (usually) very good hitter, playing excellent defense, and being good as a baserunner. In 2011 his hitting and defense apparently tanked. It’ll be interesting to see how many of his skills hold up as he ages, because he needs to get value from all of them to keep up his production. He’s still a darn good player, but I don’t know if he’ll be worth his contract.
Um, Houston?
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by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 11, 2011 3:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
False
Because MMP actually doesn’t have a left field.
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Well articulated
My point in posting the Jay and Crawford OPS was not to reach a conclusion, but to generate thought and discussion based on the coincidence of them having the same career OPS
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 11, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
It is kind of interesting
I mean, the HPGF ideal of Jon Jay was a Crawford-like player, right? Play good defense, hit well but not great. Jack of all outfield trades, master of none. Although, you could argue that Crawford is actually a master of left field defense and stealing bases… OK, so the comparison breaks down a little. We’re talking about ceiling, anyway. Jay kinda seemed like the kind of player who could be Crawford-lite if everything broke right.
It is when no one is on base ahead of you but not when there are RISP
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not agreeing with the statement, just making it clear
I maintain that it’s far too early to tell who will be more valuable, but considering Crawford’s level of production while in Tampa Bay, last year was probably just a down year and he will be more valuable in the future. IMO.
yeah, i would be stunned if Jon Jay was better going forward
Crawford is also an all-world defender in LF, or was, anyway.
by tehzachatak on Nov 11, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Given their respective ages and positions played, I would not be stunned.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Terrible contract and terrible 2011 from Crawford aside...
This would be a laughable debate. I think we need to see how Crawford responds this season before even considering the possibility.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Jay is entering his age 27 season, which means his peak years are ahead of him.
Crawford is entering his age 30 season, which means he is at the end of his peak.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think Crawford's 2011 is just a fluke bad year.
Even with a 3 year age difference, Jay should not even be in the same discussion as Crawford unless he just explodes in 2012 and Crawford fails to rebound.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Jay and Crawford have the same career OPS.
Jay plays a premium defensive position above average. Crawford plays left field very well (with his home games in a stadium where left field defensive range isn’t as important). I think there is very much a discussion to be had between the two.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
the stadium situation isn't his fault
if i remember correctly, while Crawford was in TB he was considered one of, if not the best defensive left fielder EVER, given that left fielders typically are not defensive stars.
yeah, it's strange they signed
a guy with whom a large portion of his value was his defensive prowess to play in a park where, in left field, defense does not matter as much.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Very good point
And another strike against he Red Sox management, when it comes to signing free agents. It’s not that he wouldn’t still be a good player on paper, it’s just that defense is perhaps his greatest skill, so it seems like a weird choice.
Especially with how much money they spent on Crawford
He jumps to 19.5 million in 2012, and then it’s over 20 million for each year after that.
it was bizarre
the Boston media has thrown out the theory, several times, that the Sox felt they were being upstaged by the other 3 Boston sports teams, and wanted to make a big splash- and i can believe this.
Would the Red Sox really feel overshadowed by the Bruins?
That just doesn’t make any sense to me, even if it’s just a wacky theory by the Boston media.
It may not be his fault, but it reduces the value of his defense a bit.
Which is important since he does not play a premium defensive position and Jay does.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
oh, of course
i’m just saying, it doesn’t factor in to who’s the better player going forward, just who’s more valuable. i suppose that’s totally semantics and not really relevant.
I think Jay and Crawford are similar players.
Crawford has much better speed and is a better base-stealer, to be sure, but both are contact hitters who don’t walk all that much or hit for that much power and are reliant on a high BABIP to prop up their BA and their value. Crawford has established a high-BABIP skill. Hopefully Jay has that same skill. Nonetheless, a season for Jay like Crawford’s 2011 is a distinct possibility.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah it does
your slugging with he higher if you hit doubles instead of singles
by Redbird99_98 on Nov 11, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno...
when long-term deals go well the player typically has to perform at a high level early to make up for bad seasons at the end.
Bombing in the very first season practically guarantees that the contract is going to be a disaster overall. Both because there will be bad seasons at the end, and because truly elite players don’t have stinkers during their peak years.
Crawford and Werth are first position players to sign 9-figure deals and be terrible in year 1. Even Wells and Soriano earned their money at the outset.
Sign Roy O
Never seen an add on VEB before
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I've seen plenty of Gillete ads and alcohol ads with bikinis
But a text ad saying “Pat Burrell Breaking News Visit The Official Site Now!” ?
And Pat Burrell? What?
I wonder if it's because I'm using NoScript?
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 11, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, that would be it
those are the cheaper ads it tries to show when a browser doesn’t appear to have flash
there are different ads like that on some sites
LSB had a Cardinals ad after the WS lol
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 11, 2011 1:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Free Agents most likely to not live up to their new contracts
1. Jose Reyes
2. C.J. Wilson
3. Edwin Jackson
4. Ryan Madson
5. Jonathan Papelbon
6. Carlos Beltran
I don’t have any concern about a big offer to Pujols or Fielder. Its almost a guarantee to get 5 stellar years from each of these guys.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 10:41 AM EST reply actions
I'd say that Reyes is more likely to live up to his than any closer.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm not as sure as your are, but I should definitely have the closers ahead of Wilson and Jackson
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
I see Reyes averaging 5 WAR over the life of his contract
Really, before I can declare that a bust, I’ll have to see the contract.
Grit != flat out sucking.
You are more confident in his abiltiy to stay on the field than I am.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
He had 6.2 WAR in 126 games last season
sure, there may be seasons that he has only 100 games and puts up a 2.5 WAR
there will also potentially be seasons that he plays in 145 games and has a 7.5 WAR
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 11, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
since becoming a starter
He has only one year which he had less than 580 PAs. He may not play 155 games , but even at 125 he is a great player.
He also isn’t 30 yet, still younger than Brendan Ryan. I know you haven’t brought up Ryan. But VEB loves the guy. Which is why I’m bring it up. Ryan Hasn’t even had a season where he has managed to get 500 PAs.
I have more faith in Reyes being able to play a full season right now, than I did with Berkman being able to play a full season this time last year.
Grit != flat out sucking.
yeah...but if your paying a guy $17-$20 million per season
you HAVE to get more than 125 games out of him regardless of the types of numbers he’s putting up. It’s difficult for a team to survive for 30-40 games while the most important piece of their offense is on the DL.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
meh...WAR doesn't equal actual Wins.
I’d rather have a 3.5 WAR SS play 155 games than a 6 WAR SS playing 125 games.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Why?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
because I don't want want someone like Pete Kozma (or some other terrible player) starting
40 games
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Kozma would have to be worth -2.5 WAR in those 30 games
He was worth 0.1 WAR in 16 games this year.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
this just illustrates the over use of WAR in the SABR world
again. WAR doesn’t equal actual Wins. I think the dropoff from Reyes to Kozma could certainly cost more than a couple wins.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
But the dropoff from Reyes to 3.5-WAR shortstop over 125 games
would cost you more games than the dropoff from Reyes to a replacement player over 30 games.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That's not what is actually inferred from your example above.
In order for a 3.5 Win over 155 game SS to be as good as a 6 Win over 125 Game SS, the replacement player over that time has to be worth -2.5 Wins which is actually FOUR Wins less valuable than the 6 Win SS would have been.
There is almost no way Kozma is 4 wins worse than Reyes over just 30 games.
Maths: 6 Wins / 125 games = .048 W/G
.048 W/G * 30 Gs = 1.44 Ws
-2.5 Ws – 1.44 Ws = – 3.94 Wins
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I do see your overall point that you have to consider who the guy is being replaced with
But I don’t think it’s nearly that large of an effect.
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
this question works with conventional stats, too, though
I’m not sure these are the right numbers, but would you rather have a guy hit .400 over 120 games or .300 over 150 games?
This reminds me of that graph showing infinitely increasing divorces...
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 11, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment." -- Woody Allen
by Cardinals645 on Nov 11, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
But the gain over 30 games is nowhere near the gains over the 125 games.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
does this mean you think the Marlins would have won fewer games last year
if they had replaced Emilio Bonifacio (152 games/3.3 WAR) with Reyes (126 games/6.2 WAR)? Because I wholeheartedly disagree.
But they wouldn't be paying Bonifacio $20 million
just use the extra money to improve in other areas.
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Nov 11, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
i am specifically addressing
I’d rather have a 3.5 WAR SS play 155 games than a 6 WAR SS playing 125 games.