The unquantifiable relief of rooting for Tony La Russa
by DanUpBaby on Nov 1, 2011 10:01 AM EDT
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PrintI'll miss the weird stuff about Tony La Russa. I'll miss pitchers hitting eighth, and I would even if it didn't apparently work; I'll miss knowing that the manager of my favorite baseball team was the same guy who had briefly attempted to abolish the concept of the starting pitcher entirely, just because he thought destroying baseball might earn him a few more wins. I'll miss the non-sequitur-filled interviews, the abrupt walk-outs, the sunglasses and the shingles, the utter certainty that the Rally Squirrel was a girl and Torty a guy, and that they were in a committed relationship.
I'll miss the combination of impossibly rigid strategy and weirdly flexible thinking that leads a man to name and categorize nearly every player-role on his roster—the closer, the lefty specialist, the righty specialist, the long guy, the long-long guy, the guy who brings damage in the two-hole, the second lead-off man, and most recently Fernando Salas as the set-up man bridge to the long reliever to the regional manager—and then proceed to fill those roles with a series of unconventional and entirely untelegraphed choices. Skip Schumaker and Allen Craig at second base, Braden Looper starting for the first time since high school, the string of unheralded starters transmuted into inning-eaters and ephemeral aces.
That's where all those roles—eventually so unwieldy that they became impossible to optimize—came from, after all. La Russa's earned a reputation in his dotage as a stubborn micromanager, but that micromanagement came about not because he was a narcissist—he didn't write Men at Work any more than Billy Beane wrote Moneyball—but because he was desperate to maximize the value of every player on the roster. If it meant putting a burnt-out starter in for strict ninth-inning stints or turning a tweener outfielder into a tweener infielder he'd do it, because Tony La Russa was never afraid to lose unconventionally. Nobody ever got fired for not starting Skip Schumaker at second base.
Sometimes that restlessness produced Dennis Eckersley and other times it produced Ryan Franklin, and it's the curse of the position that a manager will be celebrated for uncovering a star until we decide he's always been a star but excoriated for uncovering a dud indefinitely. I wouldn't trade the failures for the successes, though, and if I were a historian or an analyst this would be the part of Tony La Russa's career that demanded the most study.
But most of all I'll miss the unquantified emotional advantage I got from watching a Tony La Russa team. Tony La Russa did a lot of things I hated—most of them related to center fielders who struck out too much and looked lazy out there—and didn't seem to be any good with young pitchers, even when he used them correctly.
But when I saw him on the Cardinals' side and some random, chaw-spitting ex-player cannon fodder on the other—some guy without a chip on his shoulder; without the strange control of the clubhouse tone that made some Cardinals teams into seething, covered cauldrons of inexplicable indignation; without a track record that's more or less unmatched in recent baseball history—the game always seemed tipped incrementally in our favor. I knew the Cardinals had something going for them. I couldn't name it, though smarter people have tried, but I'm certain it existed, and I'll miss it.
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Two questions
1. Do managers have the same HOF eligibility rules as players—5 years retired?
2. TLR as first-ballot HOF? Over/under 90%?
I think they're voted on by the veterans committee now
and I would be stunned if they don’t elect him the first time he’s eligible, whenever that is.
2014, per the HOF twitters
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
by TBender on Nov 1, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They have a very limited ballot
The committee that considers him will meet next in 2012. They meet infrequently, and they can only list on the ballot and elect a limited number of people at a time. As Steven Goldman noted at BP, the list of people for them to consider for the ballot will include various former players and executives, and at least the following managers:
Tony Larussa, Joe Torre, Bobby Cox, Lou Piniella, and Cito Gaston
It could include more managers if others retire in the next year or two (such as Jim Leyland).
It is very unlikely all of the deserving candidates will be admitted on the first ballot.
1) yes
2) absolutely over
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 11:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was wrong about 1, its less than 5 years
Not sure what
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 2:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
also, girlfriendup requested specifically that I repost this image
and I see no reason why not.
by DanUpBaby on Nov 1, 2011 10:11 AM EDT reply actions 19 recs
i think a freese game 6 pic needs to be added to it now
maybe the helmet spike between the legs
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 1, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Him holding up the #1 while rounding first base.
Alongside Jon Jay holding up the we’re #1 finger after he caught the fly ball to end the Divisional Series.
Ask me about the death of five hookers and how Craig James was allegedly involved.
by IsayPetrinoYouSayPaterno on Nov 1, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
or the pose he struck after sliding into third in game 6
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
That is definately a required add
Seriously rivals Yadi at home plate, Furc at SS, and Albert’s knee and rising from the ashes like the Terminator…should have came up naked…in a Terminators can only go through naked sort of way
11 in '11
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 1, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You forgot the "St. Louis Fuck Yeah" in comic sans font
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
It's okay, I got your back. No need to be embarassed
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Nov 1, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
Is it at all embarrassing to you that DanUp's has more recs? I'm just wondering.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
I just rec'd it twice apparently or someone else simultaneously rec'd it :)
FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously some much could be added, where the heck is TLR here?
11 in '11
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 1, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Dan,
that was undoubtedly the best way I’ve seen Tony described. You fit my attitude toward him to a tee.
TLR was a baseball genius, for both better and worse. He changed the game. The closer, the lefty specialist, the use (or overuse) of his bench players. Much like a great inventor, he had many, many failures dotted by spectacular successes. The only difference was that an inventor throws his failure in the trash and nobody knows he screwed it up. Tony aired his in front of 30,000 fans every night.
And, with the exception of Carp, he kind of DID eliminate the starting pitcher for postseason baseball.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
We are too busy wooing over 2011 David Freese
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Nov 1, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
He was very cute.
But he is older now. So I’m focusing on that.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
HS david freese doesn't hold a candle to 2011 david freese.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
So true.
He was just cute in high school. Now he is gorgeous.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
most of the time I feel like I can understand why a man is considered gorgeous
david freese is proving to be an exception to this rule.
yeah, i don't see it at all.
i mean, colby was less attractive. but the freese is not an attractive man.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
yes. and I wouldn't even say he's unattractive,
just that he looks like any white guy in his late twenties who’s in really good shape and has vaguely ferrety facial features.
Strong jawline / chin, pretty good smile, nice eyes.
He’s not Cary Grant or anything, but I can see it.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
To my latently heterosexual eyes
Freese is far better looking than Colby.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
But then, I’m the guy that said Jon Jay should be getting more lady love, so what do I know?
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Beats me.
He’s fairly well compensated, so maybe.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
did you see
on Leno last night when Freese said he’d been driving an ‘01 Acura that was handed down from his dad? Guess he didn’t go out and blow that $400k he earned this year on a new car.
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 1, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I saw that.
He gave the ‘vette to TLR, didn’t he?
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh...
These highfalutin baseball stars… driving their new millennium automobiles while I’m wallowing in relative squaler in my ’95. Appalling.
by mynameistyler on Nov 1, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Love seeing a guy
who hangs onto his money (like another STL favorite, Willie McGee). Freese may have a short career so he needs to know how to pinch a penny.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Nov 1, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
i think there was an eckstein story that he was still driving
and old nissan with a couple hundred thousand miles on it when he won the MVP
yeah,
I think he gave the car he won to his brother.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He did, he couldn't drive a stick.
I think I’d have taken it as an opportunity to learn, myself.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Couldn't reach the pedals from the seat.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
by TBender on Nov 1, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He needed to take a lesson from
this kid. Starting at about 4:30.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
did you know that if you right-click on the youtube video
you can copy the link at the desired time? I used to put it in manually until someone showed me you could right-clicked, followed by “copy video URL at current time”
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 1, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
no shit?
thanks for the info. I haven’t played with it enough, I guess.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You're a latent heterosexual?
That’s weird.
by hangingfromatree on Nov 1, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Freese's balls do tend to go the other way
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Nov 1, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
WAT
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
i mean, i probably wouldn't call him gorgeous, but he's a good looking man.
he’s got a great smile
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Yes.
Gorgeous is hyperbole. But he is good looking. He has really nice eyes. And I really like eyes so there’s that.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
He looks like...
a ballplayer. #sexyenoughforme
by mynameistyler on Nov 1, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True fact.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
But he's a plain looking man that just won an WS MVP.
That ain’t gonna hurt his chances.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
aww, cmon
supposedly I look like him. Now you are insulting me.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Maybe you
don’t look like him, though. Maybe you’re better looking.
by hangingfromatree on Nov 1, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Heh. "Scoot, Plain and Tall"
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
by a fink on Nov 1, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
he's a mail-order bride?
/never picture anything on VEB
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
a fink
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Nov 1, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How do you look at his piercing blue eyes and say he is plain?
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Oh well.
I think he’s cute.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
i totally see it
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
I have trouble believing that it's not Fritz
It almost seems like someone intentionally writing in Fritz’s style
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
not enough of a nose
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I am
the assistant (to the) regional manager. If by regional manager, you mean the person who runs our household.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 1, 2011 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Can someone explain the appeal of these new "magazine" style layouts
that blogs are trying to adopt? That’s the description that I’ve always received regarding the regional sites and now The Verge has followed a similar format. Is this SEO related?
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
part of it comes, I think, from a legitimate desire to make online media look more dynamic and populated than the blog format allows
but I’m sure it’s also related to increasing pageviews and pages per visit—I know we track both numbers, at least.
I think the verge looks cool, but this is my next was considerably easier to read. the columns-and-photos thing works for newspapers because you can see the content without clicking through.
I've recently been checking out other teams pages for the first time
And while ours immediately was easy for me to navigate (member since Feb 2011 so newbie), I’m having a hell of a time figuring out the Rangers SBN page. Gave up tired again and gave up. Or do they not have 4 or 5 post pages with 1.5K posts routinely?
11 in '11
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 1, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
they regularly go thru about 4-5 pages a day.
Of course, they routinely put up fanshots on the front page. Which creates more of a clutter, imo.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe this is part of it.
Since I still browse the internet in a 2.0 kind of way (modern browsers – no mobile, no apps) I may not fully appreciate the benefits imparted by this layout.
To me it is a horrible collage of pictures and text that is unorganized and visually abrasive. I have an extremely difficult time parsing between stories, what I’ve read and what I haven’t and what I want to read next. I also hate the storyline gimmick that the regionals use and appears will be used by The Verge as well.
Again, this is probably a me thing but I just don’t understand or like these new layouts. I still view all the gawker sites in blog view.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
No, I don't like them either
and while I do browse the net on my phone, I don’t have a tablet (although if someone wants to buy me one, I might accept it).
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Nov 1, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree with you.
Every website seems to be optimized for an iPad now. Makes me want to vomit.
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 1, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
i stopped going to gawker sites after brian lam left.
the new layout is terrible.
what’s different about the verge’s layout and the gawker layout is pretty significant, though, i think. with one you can view a lot of information and a lot of articles at once. with the other you’re stuck one at a time and navigation is a bitch.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
what I'm not sold on about the verge's design right now
and as I get used to it this might change—is that I’m not given very many visual cues as to what kind of article a piece is. I’m not very interested in the storystream stuff, but it’s given just as much space as the features/analysis.
and yes, I do run a site based on this exact framework.
What exactly is The Verge?
I first read about this a day or two ago.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 1, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
sb nation's tech site, which just launched today.
basically a bunch of writers and editors left engadget, another big tech blog, for greener pastures after AOL began to force their particular brand of search-engine focused writing on them, and for the last several months sb nation has been setting up a tech site of its own with those people and our platform.
here is a link to my explanation:
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Nov 1, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What is a gawker site?
And get off my lawn.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 1, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i completely agree with you.
i don’t know what the percentages are, but i’d still be willing to be the VAST amount of internet browsing is done on a computer, which is why making things more readable on a tablet/mobile phone and sacrificing it on a computer is dumb.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of The Verge
THEY IMPROVED Z-ing THROUGH COMMENTS!!!
There is now a little black arrow pointing to the next new comment that the z button takes you to.
Dear VEB developers,
I want this now.
That is all.
yeah, that's pretty nice
I miss the highlighting we get here, though, not to mention the vestigial subject lines—the verge in general seems cluttered by all the unboxed text on it.
I need my highlighting.
And my subject line.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
two things i want on SBN:
1. i want to keep the highlighting;
2. i want some sort of on-site notification when someone replies to one of my comments, a la reddit.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I LIKE THINGS JUST THE WAY THEY DAMN WELL ARE.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
+direct neural interface
if Yadi2Second can be inside the blog, i want to be too.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
if we can do that
do we become our avatars? I’m just trying picture conversing with clank as a talking watercolor. Sounds like a shroom trip.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
in that case, zach becomes a drunk
weimaraner, which would also be amusing.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I DON'T LIKE YOU THAT WAY
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
speaking of the verge:
Lastly, the creation of The Verge has been a huge team effort, and not just the brilliant editorial team that I am constantly and consistently amazed by. I would like to thank the teams and people whom without none of this would have been possible. And I truly mean that.
First and foremost, our product team: …Dan Chilton,…
go bjork24/dan! woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
p.s.: your SBN login works on the verge.
which is awesome.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
it is a new tech site.
full disclosure: this information may not be perfectly accurate.
basically, a while back, most of the senior editorial staff of engadget left because of a dispute with AOL, which is engadget’s parent company. these people then partnered with SBN to release the verge, which is sort of an engadget competitor. for about six months, they’ve been working on releasing the site, which is built on the SBN platform, and blogging at this is my next.
last night, SBN announced that they are now the subsidiary of a parent company they just made called vox media, which has SBN and the verge as subsidiaries.
the verge launched last night.
dan chilton, previously known as bjork24, works for vox and was one of the many people hard at work getting the verge up and running.
if you’re into tech and gadget news, go check it out. i think it’s pretty cool.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Nov 1, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this is my next is now offline and re-directs to the verge.
this shouldn’t surprise me, but just letting you know that the second link in my post won’t take you where i intended it.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Woo hoo!
Thanks!
I don’t want to make any promises that I can’t keep, but once post-launch bug-fixin’ calms down, I’m going to try my hardest to get some new keyboard shortcuts into both commenting platforms. The whole team will have to agree on them, but I’ll make sure to make a good case.
I was an SBN user long before I was an SBN dev, so I can relate to all your requests.
by dan on Nov 1, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm stepping down from my edit function soap baox,
to ask if there’s been any progress on the debacle that the search has become.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
disabling my lurk-invisibility-shield to agree
what happened to search?
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Dev resources have been Verge heavy of late, but I know that was being worked on
I haven’t touched that part of the site myself, so I can’t tell you exactly when it will be fixed; I just know that we’re aware of it, and it’s actively being worked on.
by dan on Nov 1, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks.
I think Y2S may be going through dt’s lately because of it.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Does every SBN site get it's own dev guy
commenting in the threads? Cause VEB feels a little extra special at times like this. (Suck it BCBs & RR!)
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
Why is it interesting?
Offer him arb. If he accepts, and I think he will, we bring him back right around what he was getting paid. If not and he signs elsewhere we get draft picks.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Nov 1, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
he would basically be forced to accept arb -
he has to know no team would sign him at the cost of a first round draft pick.
He made $2.75M last year and will get a raise through the arb process (right?)...
We had a $3.5M option/750K buyout. Doesn’t this mean if we offer arb we’re essentially guaranteed to pay him more than $3.5M in 2012 (since he’ll definitely accept).
This is why I never understood the decline option/offer arb path. I think he’s gone. Why would we offer arb? And if we don’t, someone will give him Arthur Rhodes money.
oh i agree - i don't think we would offer him arb because if we did he would have to accept it
he is either gone or we were confident we could re-sign him for little
because he's type A; if someone actually bids on
Him, he’s worth much more to us gone than here. We have a pretty decent in-house bullpen. Another team picking him is ourbest case scenario.
More likely, he agrees to a deal with us. The fact that few teams will want to touch him as a type A non-closing reliever means we’ll get a steep discount. Probably second-best case scenario.
Third-best is that he resigns to the fact that he’s in a vise and takes arbitration. I don’t know that we end up worse off through arb.
And if we decide we like internal options better we can always trade him. He’d be a semi-valuable chip. I don’t see a bad outcome for us; worst case is he gets a few hundred grand in arb more than we would have paid for his option.
ignorance without the bliss - aimee mann
by tom s. on Nov 1, 2011 12:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
no arb, no A, no compensatory pick
i suspect they may try to work out a deal with at 5M for 2 years or something like that
he was frankly, invaluable this year
TLR is gone, long live the king
worst case scenario
Does Dotel still get the $750k buyout if the Cards offer him arb and he accepts?
yeah, I was a little surprised by that
but $2.7 million or whatever it was minus the buyout for a ROOGY might be a little steep when the cardinals have in-house options—sanchez, reifer, etc.
I wonder if their feeling is...
we can get this guy cheaper, or that the bullpen is full. With Sanchez, Salas, Motte, Boggs, Lynn, Dotel, and Zep there’s no room for KMac, a second loogy, a non-roster invitee, a long man or anything….
I think it's that the bullpen is full.
VEB quite sensibly talked me out of the idea that an arb offer to Dotel is smart, yesterday. I think he’s gone.
I'm kinda bummed...
$2.75M seems reasonable for a shutdown righty. True, he’s a roogy. But when the bases are loaded in the sixth and Braun is coming up, Dotel is the man…
the fact that he is a type a while edwin is a type b shows
The system is broken.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Nov 1, 2011 10:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
so, so broken
I mean Jackson’s a guy you want to offer arb, but the most we can get when he declines is a sandwich pick. Meanwhile, the guy we’re not sure we want anyway would bring two picks, but those are in reality impossible to get because he’s clearly not worth it to anybody. Super.
I think he might've accepted even if he was just a type B
he clearly liked it in St Louis and I’m not convinced he gets much more than $3.5m on the open market next year, but yeah, if he was a B I think offering would still have been a smart move.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You'll probably be saying the same about Sanchez next year
They’re pretty much the same guy.
Not afraid to nitpick
this.
we can’t forget that sanchez still does in fact have an arm.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I liked him too
but he’s getting kinda old and has (other than the couple of months he played for us) basically sucked for the last three years. I think they made (very marginally) the right call here. I think/hope Eduardo Sanchez can do an equivalent or better job next year in the same role, and there’s an argument that Boggs (who, similarly, has the scent of the ROOGY about him) might do a similar job.
If the $3m we save lets us pay 60-70% of Rafael Furcal’s contract next year, I think it’s a reasonable move. Keeping Furcal + having a shot at Pujols > Dotel.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That was partly the argument for keeping Franklin and Batista round this year.
It is not an argument that I like.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. Al kept on lauding Batista's clubhouse presence.
Mentoring in what? A course in how to BB every batter you face? Or a tutorial on how to lose a 6 run lead? Batista was one painful memory on the level of Kip Wells.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
My Theory
we decline option, offer him arb, no one will want to give up a first rounder for him, this drives down his price, and we get him for 2 mil or less.
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 1, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Why would the arbitrator cut his salary?
I don’t really know much about FA arbitration, but it doesn’t seem like his pay would go down…
I think that the arb number will be right around the 2.75 we could have gotten him for
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 1, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
booo
raining on my parade
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 1, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
but when was the last time you seen it accepted for a old relief pitcher
the Arbitrator has two options, decide to pay him what the Cardinals want to pay him, or what the player asks for. He doesn’t get to pick a random number.
Grit != flat out sucking.
but i also have a limited knowledge of FA arbitration
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 1, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I think there are some significant differences between FA Arb and Pre-FA Arb...
one being the salary can actually go down with the former, but not the latter.
I know that somewhere
in this thread that the conversation will turn to who should replace La Russa so let me just go ahead and say that I have always thought that Terry Pendleton would make a good manager.
Thanks for this.
I’m going to miss all of those things, too!
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Nov 1, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions
couldn't have possibly even come close to saying it better.
But when I saw him on the Cardinals’ side and some random, chaw-spitting ex-player cannon fodder on the other—some guy without a chip on his shoulder; without the strange control of the clubhouse tone that made some Cardinals teams into seething, covered cauldrons of inexplicable indignation; without a track record that’s more or less unmatched in recent baseball history—the game always seemed tipped incrementally in our favor. I knew the Cardinals had something going for them. I couldn’t name it, though smarter people have tried, but I’m certain it existed, and I’ll miss it.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
by tehzachatak on Nov 1, 2011 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I'm sure it'll be online today
if it’s not already. It was a pretty short interview, but it was nice. Sitting next to the sexy manliness that is David Freese, Justin Bieber looked even more like a 12 year old girl.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Nov 1, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't wait to see this later.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
I'm DVR'ing Ellen today, for sure!
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Nov 1, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Biebs is on Ellen too.
It’s a little bit ridiculous.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Seriously?
I didn’t realize that. They asked Freese if the team listened to him, and he laughed and said they listened to “Baby” for like two months straight after the games.
He was very cute! Bieber should really stop appearing with him. It’s not doing anything for him.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Nov 1, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
He appears to be developing Bieber Fever based on Twitter.
I think he needs medicine.
Actually I think he is kidding but can’t be too careful.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Hahah, yeah, I saw that!
I think he was just being nice though. Hopefully, ha! He said Waino loves Leno, which makes me worry a little about Waino, too.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Nov 1, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
He is a nice person so he wouldn’t not say anything.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
I know some lesbians that look like Bieber
Also I hate Leno. Which lowers my opinion of Wainwright but Wainwright is still awesome.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Nov 1, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Everybody can have a guilty pleasure.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Biebs music confirmed in the Cardinals clubhouse.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Isn't the Bieber fad about over?
The music scene today need a swift kick in the crotch….badly.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
That's what each generation says about the next generation's choice.
FWIW, I completely agree with you.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Bieber isn't the next generation's choice
He’s a fad. Like New Kids on the Block and Hanson. History will remember him as musically insignificant.
Grit != flat out sucking.
ummmm......I was speaking in a general sense?
not specifically about BeaverBoy.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
whatthefuckever
I don’t listen to the radio. I don’t watch award shows. I couldn’t fucking care less what they want to listen to anymore as long as I don’t have to listen to it because most of what I have heard sucks. My opinion, that’s all, that’s it, nothing more to it. All I was saying is that each generation tends to have the same view about the next generation.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems like a nice guy. I hope celebrity doesn't lure him down the garden path
"What I said is what I said. At the time, the moment was heated. Maybe I shouldn't have said it. But it is what it is." -- Nyjer Morgan
Just wtached the interview.
Loved it. Obviously.
1) I thought he was pretty funny in a down to earth sort of way.
2) He looked like he had absolutely no idea what he was supposed to do most of the interview. Which was adorable.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Sorry.
After Ellen I will have nothing left to comment on…unless my mother is successful tomorrow and meets him.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Was he dreamy?
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
Sure.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
DAY FOUR OF THE CARDINAL ASCENDANCY
and I feel fine.
Give me some, Albert.
"What I said is what I said. At the time, the moment was heated. Maybe I shouldn't have said it. But it is what it is." -- Nyjer Morgan
You know that Cinderalla song
Don’t know what you’ve got till its gone? That says it better that I know how to say it.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
i've been thinking that churchill really understood the la russa legacy
Many forms of Government managing have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy La Russa is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy La Russa is the worst form of government managing except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
by swade on Nov 1, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
Quito
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 11:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Volsncards'd
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 11:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Quoting Winston Churchill always makes me instantly like someone
Relating it to Tony is just clever. I like all of this comment
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 11:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks, Dan.
I’m having a tough time with TLR leaving, but I’m having a tough time articulating why. I think you covered a lot of it.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
I might have missed the conversation in another thread...
But did anyone else find TLR’s comments on Letterman a bit odd? He seemed serious about not being happy with the players strategy, and his “waiting for the phone to ring” comment seemed out of place.
WWCD? CDGAF.
waiting for the phone to ring was from the presser
rehearsed.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
players strategy line was a joke that no one appreciated
I liked it Mr. LaRussa!
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Nov 1, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
So I've been riding the high until today
but this morning, I’m pretty sad about no baseball for so long.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Nov 1, 2011 11:28 AM EDT reply actions
Hot stove will keep you warm
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Nov 1, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Playoffs still happening in Japan!
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, I am half Japanese
so I should be at least half interested, right?
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Nov 1, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Well you know me and my half racist side
(is the half racist side the Japanese half or the non-Japanese half?)
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
twitter @sirensofsilence
by sirensofsilence on Nov 1, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Caribbean League! Arizona Fall League! Japan!
by mynameistyler on Nov 1, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
links, dammit, links!
It does us no good unless we can see it! Might as well be living in the 40’s.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Links!
Caribbean Baseball!
Arizona Fall League!
Japan!
And obviously keep up with FutureRedbirds.net for Cardinals-relevant AFL updates.
by mynameistyler on Nov 1, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
you are a beautiful individual, thank you.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Going to be the most exciting hot stove in a LOOONG time
simply because Albert.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
how many times do you think VEB will freak out this Hot Stove season?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
alot of times
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Nov 1, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
i like this alot.
This alot is awesome.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
I'd just like you all to know that after Game 7, when Punto shredded The Cat, it cut back to the desk
and Al said Jim Hayes had that other job in the metro east.
Upon being questioned, he said he was sure Rick knew about it.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
When are teams required to offer arbitration?
Does anyone know what the date is? I read somewhere that it is in December, but that seems odd since players can sign contracts with new teams before that date.
usually late November, not sure this year
And if a guy signs before the deadline to offer arb, his former team is automatically compensated as if arb had been offered and declined.
mlb.com important dates
midnight on Nov 23 to offer, Dec 7 for players to accept
Dec 12th is the deadline for non-tenders (Skippy, KMac, Theriot)
I'd also like you to know that Mike and Mike asked David Freese if he'd ever have to pay for a beer in St. Louis.
AWK-WARD.
David replies that he hasn’t had a drink in a long time, and shifted it to not paying for meals.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That IS awkward
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Very awkward.
But it sounds like Freese deftly handled the question.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 1, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a good article...
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/anatomy-of-the-100-million-contract/#comment-1337615
Of the 27 9-figure contracts in baseball, Cards have 2 of the top 3 in surplus value to the team.
a really good quote that answers a question i've had:
This brings me to the guy I’ve left out. While the Albert Pujols deal should certainly be called a success for the Cardinals, it would be careless to group him in with anyone else on this list. In fact, the difference between Pujols’ contributed value beyond his salary and the second highest ranking contract is greater than the difference between the second ranking contract and the lowest ranking contract. Over the lifetime of his seven-year, $100 million deal signed prior to the 2004 season, Albert Pujols’ production was worth roughly $132 million more than what he was paid. Pujols production was worth on average $22 million in excess of what he was paid in the four free-agent years his contract bought out.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Nov 1, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
His surplus value was more than he was paid.
He was worth more than double his contract. Giddy up.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting in light of the contract talks.
The typical career production/salary arc is a bunch of surplus (over rookie scale and arb awards/buyouts) in the early years, followed by the player underperforming his (new, big, free-agent) contract in his later years. So guys earn back a chunk of their already-generated surplus from whomever is foolish enough to give them a huge deal covering their decline phase.
So, ignoring the likely negative competitive effects on the team, giving Pujols $300 million over ten years would really be paying him money that he’s already earned (through performance), along with what he’s likely to earn in the future anyway. But if you’re Moze (or some of us), the competitive effects are your only real concern.
yeah. this was exactly my question.
now, how do you approach the market value of WAR in the future?
really, you can look at this one of two ways.
1) pujols provided you with an incredible competitive advantage over the course of his previous contract. offering him a large contract at this point is very likely to hurt your competitiveness in the long run.
2) pujols provided you with an incredible competitive advantage over the course of his previous contract. you can afford to overpay him in his new one (note: you’d only have $132 million extra to work with, and it is my belief that the difference between his worth and his asking price will be more than this).
from a business, economic, makes-sense approach, #1 is clearly the answer. from a fan, #2 makes a lot of sense even though i know it’s not sound logic.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I'm fine with overpaying a little bit
But not “we keep him at any expense”
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
really, unless they get incredibly creative with his contract
or you are willing to factor in some sort of psychic benefit to having pujols on your team (which would include the perceived importance of having him be a cardinal for life, his worth to the city, how good a person he is, etc.), i don’t see him being worth his asking price—or anywhere near it.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
do we even know what his asking price is though?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
i'm assuming
and i realise i am doing so—sorry for perhaps sounding like i know what exactly it is—that it will be ~$250M. i think at one point it was rumoured he wanted a higher AAV than a-rod, but that’s not going to happen, i don’t think. although, personally, i would do a much higher AAV in return for less years.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
right. i would be in favor of more money and less years
they should get creative and throw in a bunch of options at the end that vest automatically with certain levels of production.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
wouldn't pujols have to be worth like 9 WAR
to be worth $40M?
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
yes. but its not like we could sign him on a one year deal for $5m/WAR
so we go one year at a time while our window is open, paying a premium for his injury/ultra decline risk.
This is probably a dumb idea that I haven’t thought through..but if we could get 4 years for $160m via 4 1-year, $40m deals, that might be preferable to 10 years/250m given the likely suckitude of those out years. Plus if he falls off a cliff in any particular year, we aren’t on the hook for the long term.
($40m for a 1 year deal might be low, I have no idea how Pujols values his risk profile).
looks good from a team perspective,
but as a player i would never sign a contract like that.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
well if you are albert pujols, your thought process could be
hey, nowhere am i gonna get $40m AAV in a long term deal. why don’t i cash that, and go put up a monster year. im fucking albert pujols – no way i get seriously injured or put up a bad year..i was my same old self the second half of this year. Now, next offseason I will go for that mammoth contract, when there isnt another premiere 1B on the market.
(disclosure – i have no idea what the 1b market looks like in 2012)
it could also be:
i am potentially leaving two hundred million on the table. what if my arm finally gives out?
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
oh, definitely. you have to pay him for taking that risk..
think my post below clarifies that. not saying he would or should, but there is a breakeven somewhere.
and alberts conviction about
his ability to not get injured or not have a bad year is the difference you have to pay him in a one year deal above what he could get in a long term deal. For instance, if he was 100% sure he would put up a great, healthy year, he wouldnt care if he signed a one year deal or ten. If he’s not so sure, you have to pay him more for taking that risk
this is an interesting train of thought,
for sure. and i’d be interested in knowing what albert’s response to it would be.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
the team could get burned if he puts up like 8 huge years
that they paid $40m a pop for when they could have been had for $25 or $30 or whatever.
but then again: you got 8 really good years. If it was me, it would take the sting off to overpay for good years than to overpay for bad years even if the overpay is the same $ amount.
but i’m not considering how it would hamstring the rest of the payroll to give one guy $40. and probably about a million other things that keeps these kinds of deals from happening
does anyone know the limits of how "creative" a team can get on a K?
Articles/Posts discussing Pu’s K over the past year appear to define the key variables as: cash amounts; timing of payouts; performance incentives; and duration of K (I thought giving him a big % of Pu-swag was ruled out too, but I could be mistaken). I understand that offering an equity % of the team is off the table as an existing player; but is it verbotten to offer an option to buy into the LLC, which could only be exercised once he is classified as a retired-player ? I couldn’t find anything about this concept in the MLB players’ K (although it was just a quick review). I ask because when K’s get this big in many other industries, it can often be the equity play that is valued as the biggest carrot to close the deal. I also don’t understand why club’s don’t have various private equity investment fund vehicles set up; offer carry in the fund (or the side-by-side investment option) to the players interested in making the bet (who would forego additional cash); and then those PE earnings to the players would be taxed at a much lower rate when realized.
by westsidecards on Nov 1, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Kevin Goldstein had a great article about player ownership..
in his article about Joe Mauer’s options last offseason. Good discussion in comments about other more structured options as well.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=10316
thanks very much for highlighting the comments
i had read the article this weekend, but missed the comments (oops!). should have thought of the disclosure issues w/regard to the K-1 info, etc. still wish they could create some non-cash instruments as part of total comp, as it would provide flexibility with the payroll and an enticing investment alternative for cash-rich types (the Pu’s, Lego’s of the world).
by westsidecards on Nov 1, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think TLR can have a great deal of thanks for this fact when he makes the HOF:
This brings me to the guy I’ve left out. While the Albert Pujols deal should certainly be called a success for the Cardinals, it would be careless to group him in with anyone else on this list. In fact, the difference between Pujols’ contributed value beyond his salary and the second highest ranking contract is greater than the difference between the second ranking contract and the lowest ranking contract. Over the lifetime of his seven-year, $100 million deal signed prior to the 2004 season, Albert Pujols’ production was worth roughly $132 million more than what he was paid. Pujols production was worth on average $22 million in excess of what he was paid in the four free-agent years his contract bought out.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet lordy
On the horizontal axis of the first plot is the average WAR in the three years leading up to each player’s mammoth contract. The player’s age in the final season of his contract is plotted on the vertical axis.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
oooh pretty.
Brown? like
andrew brown
/blanking utterly
A-Rod just ruining it for everyone.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Kevin Brown
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
for some reason i don't understand this
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
it took me forever to read it correctly
and not just because I was trying to figure out who “calee” was
Never forget
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
ED WADE
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
Ryan Howard had the lowest 3-year average WAR in the 3 years preceding his contract, and was of average age
Pujols had the highest 3-year average AR and was incredibly young
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
And size of bubble is how big the contract signed is
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
In terms of AAV
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
it seems like there could be a better way to represent all this
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Prettier > Better
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
It was fine for me
But I look at graphs and shit all day, so
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I really like it... lots of information....
maybe the second best graph ever, after that one of Napoleon’s invasion of Russia.
The latest Ryan Howard contract is the worst in the history of baseball
considering all factors relating to it (i.e. player, likely production, the makeup and financial situation of the team giving the contract etc).
Discuss.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes! Literally just the other day. Thanks!
Nice way to celebrate the WS win. I meant to email you today and forgot.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
while i make this statement a lot
objectively, i think Alfonso Soriano or Vernon Wells has got to be worse, if only considering the years. i guess if you knew more about the financial state of the teams, maybe you could say Howard was worse than Alfonso, but i just don’t know how you defend the Vernon Wells contract.
Howard probably did win the “most LOLs at time of contract signing”, though. when Wells signed the contract, i certainly didn’t see it as that bad of a move, although at that time i was a 17 year old who didn’t understand anything beyond BA and counting stats.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Wells wasn't that bad, I don't think
people forget he had a strong year (I think 5 or 6 WAR or something) coming into it and just totally fell off a cliff. I think the bad press that deal gets is 50% actual suckage, 50% hindsight. Howard signed a massive extension for an extra 5 years in the midst of a season when he was barely league average.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but i mean, given the circumstances
he played for at best the 3rd team in the best division in baseball. it just seemed like an irresponsible contract. on the other hand, i guess he provided amazing hitting at one of the most premium of positions.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Howard will be like 38 or something ridiculous when his deal is up
and he’s not much more than a league average player now. He’s a pure platoon player at this point and will probably be a pure DH pretty much within the next couple of years. AND Amaro had him under contract for the next two years anyway. Crazy.
In pure production per dollar terms, I imagine A-Rod’s current deal may end up being the worst, but the Yankees can afford it and he is, at least, playing a position of need for them, and is still a legit top quality player.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The Mo Vaughn deal was pretty bad, too
though not long term enough to be a true goat, but he was the second highest player in baseball for a while, despite being nearly worthless.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
based on the third figure from that article
I’d say it’s any high-value pitcher contract. Cliff Lee and CC are the only two on the list who have generated surplus value, and neither of them are close to the end of their contracts. Meanwhile, Hampton, K Brown, Santana, and Zito are all in the bottom 10 of the list
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i feel like this is very difficult to judge though
properly estimating MLB pitching talent is incredibly difficult, and you pay a HUGE premium on anything you think is solid. there’s inherent risk in any pitching contract that just isn’t present for a position player, and i think you KNOW as a GM any pitcher you sign can crash and burn, and you just have to accept it…
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
or you don't sign any blockbuster pitching contracts
surely someone has computed a $/WAR for batters vs. pitchers. If WAR is more expensive to come by via pitching, then sign me up for a team full of sluggers.
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i'm not exactly saying this though
i don’t know if this is right, and i will go look- i would think it’s not. i just think there is more RISK inherent in a pitching contract- for all i know, all the young pitching WAR racked up more than counters for this in aggregate, but i feel like pitching contracts are considerably more likely to NOT produce up to value.
this is just a feeling though. i’m curious if we stripped injuries out if the data would still reflect this.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
that's my point
Injury risk for a pitcher is very high, so signing one to a 6 year deal is very likely to backfire, particularly if you’re paying near market rate even when they do play.
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm tempted to say ARod II...
age 32-41 seasons for $275 million – that’s 2.4 times the money spent on Howard. 18 war so far after four years… negative $40M in surplus value so far.
Of course if money is irrelevant to the Yankees then no contract they sign can be “bad.”
yeah, since FM specifically mentioned the financial situation of the team, it can't be the ARod.
I think this probably also downgrades (upgrades?) Howard though.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
How about 2/13 for Mark Mulder...
his chances of coming back were zero – Jocketty was just praying for a miracle.
before Howard blew out his achilles, I would have disagreed and pointed at Sori, Wells, and Zito
now, I’m not so sure. I guess it’s going to depend on how long he’s out and what kind of shape he’s in when he finally returns (whenever that is).
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
are you asking without the benefit of hindsight?
Because Colorado paid almost all of his $120 mil and they got -1.0 WAR out of it
wow, you're right
always knew he was a good hitter but don’t remember him being worth ~1.0 WAR as a hitter in a season.
actually the Braves paid like $45 mil of it
still though
Carlos deserves some love here, I think.
Houston isn’t a big market team, and he never was going to be someone who aged well. It’s similar to Howard’s, but for a team with less $.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
Yeah I think Lee is in the discussion
although in pure $/WAR terms he’s only just started to be a negative over the lifetime of the deal.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It was always the last 3 years of the deal made it a bad deal, IMO.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
ED WADE
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
and something is wrong with the defense metrics on him this year, vastly overstating his WAR
by just about every advanced measure he was one of the top defensive players in the NL this year.
does not compute.
averages out with the 2 years before that
hard to look at one year of UZR and get good information out of it.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Is that considering time at 1B and in LF?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
He only had 97 balls in zone though
There’s just no way…
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Well, everything else was a home run.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
Crawdad Boxes!
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Crawford
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
Texeira should be tope colored...
not fun at all…
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
Average age at end of contract - 36
average WAR of 3 years leading up to mammoth contract, 5 WAR. Teixeira is the average guy.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 1, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
hey, just wondering
totally weird question, but will Albert be the first guy ever to get two completely distinct 100M contracts? ARod is the only other person I can think of, and they blend together.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
i know Vick did too, and i'd guess there's probably an NBA player also?
but i’m thinking just MLB here.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
yeah, i think i mentioned that below
NFL contracts are never what they seem.. but the sticker would say Vick got 2 100M deals, even if that’s not what he really got paid.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
NFL contracts are a little different
But the sticker on Vick’s contract isn’t even true. The last year of the deal has already been “voided”.
Not afraid to nitpick
no way
same thing as ARod, even less distinct than him. 1 100M contract, with a renegotiation/extension/however you want to view it. Albert signed a 100M contract, finished it, and now is going to sign another. i don’t think anyone in MLB has ever done that, and the more i think about it, i don’t think any other American professional athlete has either- Vick definitely didn’t finish his first one, and probably won’t finish this one. need to go check NBA…
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
to be fair here
now that i think about it, ARod completed well over 100 million of his first contract before extending, so i guess he could be considered to be the first.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Michael Jordan, maybe?
Or Shaq? Both those guys had long careers where they were superstars for most of them.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
ah! Shaq!
you are a winner, sir. checked him and thought the answer was no, but just double checked and he did it. Jordan, unfortunately, was too early- contracts just never got that high. otherwise i don’t see any NBA players.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
It will depend on who manages this team next
to determine how much I will miss Tony. I will miss the cranky Tony in post game interviews though for comedy relief. I always got a kick out of him getting ticked off at the media at times.
If we get a manager that continues the winning tradition and keeps getting the team in the playoffs I won’t miss Tony a whole lot. But if they hire a guy that’s in over his head and doesn’t have a similar burning desire to win like Tony had then yeah Tony’s departure will be a huge loss.
If they can get Maddon I will be very happy. I would also be happy to see what Tito Francona could do here. If they decide on a subpar manager like Jim Riggleman who let’s face it doesn’t have a great track record as a winning manager… Tony will really be missed.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
For me, only 4 managers will make me happy
Maddon, Francona, Oquendo, or Pop Warner
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 1, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Mattingly is from Evansville, IN
Big time Cardinal country.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
There it is
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 2:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Who knew my sister school had that crazy baseball tradition
Howard, Freese, and Mattingly? That’s insane.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
another guy i liked that is tied up is bob melvin
thought he did a good job with the backs
TLR is gone, long live the king
I love this description of Carp...
…in Passan’s La Russa article:
Cursing at hitters behind a stoic façade, Carpenter was the archetypal La Russa disciple: a nuclear bomb of attitude who, upon detonation, looks around and says "wasn’t me."
I once shot a man just to see him die...then I got distracted and missed it.
Passan's articles in the postseason about the Cardinals have been surprisingly readable
I don’t know what got into him.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
Minus that whole
PUJOLS ISN’T A LEADER HE SKIPPED OUT ON TALKING TO US THEREFORE THEY CAN’T WIN THE WORLD SERIES WITHOUT A LEADER
Not afraid to nitpick
With a satellite demonstration at Turtle Park.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this can only end badly
remember the boog rally?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
am i the only one that wasn't on this train to begin with?
allen craig is likely worth at least -1 wins in defense at second base. install descalso there and he’s probably worth at least .5 wins there. platoon craig with berkman, make him the first outfielder off the bench, and give him SPOT starts at third and second and he gets probably 450-500 PA’s.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but with his offense
he’s probably a 2.5 WAR player there, which i don’t think descalso is.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
he's at least a 2.5 WAR player there. but it won't happen, so it doesn't matter.
beside, could you imagine how frustrating that would be to watch?
fun fact: allen craig was worth 2.6 WAR in 219 PA’s. TOWEL
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, he was crazy good.
which is why we want him in the line-up every day. so long as it happens, i don’t really care how, i’ll be fine.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
the platoon with berkman should be a no brainer.
how do we feel about craig playing centerfield?
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely need an outfielder who can bat right handed and play centerfield
but I like Craig getting 6 starts in AL parks during interleague play; 5-10 starts for Pujols (assuming resigned); 15-20 starts for Holliday; 30-40 starts for Berkman; 20-30 starts for Freese; spot starts at second; pinch hitting/double switching in mid-game. 400-500 at bats
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 1, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
assuming no injuries
5 for pujols
10 tops for holliday
35 for berkman
15 for infield
that’s 65 before injuries and other factors.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
berkman hit .277/.348/.455 as a righty this season
lets not buy into the fact that he sucks from that side. but yes, craig hits LHP better than that
.313/.343/.657 > .277/.348/.455
berkman has literally no power from the right side. it’s just not even close.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
"literally no power" is probably too far, but you know what i meant.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If his line for the whole year was .277 / .348 /.455
He would place 29th of qualified OFers in slug.
Grit != flat out sucking.
know what's better than .455?
.657. and .571
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
you know what
lets not buy into the fact that he sucks from that side
means?
It means that an OPS of 803 is > sucks.
Grit != flat out sucking.
i know it doesn't suck.
i’m just saying there’s better options.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I always wonder how much advanatage switch hitters
with splits like these actually get. What would actually happen if Berk hit lefty against lefties? Would it actually end up closer to his lefty v. righty numbers?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
wasn't he considering doing this in spring training this year?
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
I always wonder this too
There has to be a difference or else they wouldn’t do it. It intrigues me that they have two different swings to work on and how that affects their approach to different pitchers. I just always wonder if bad mechanics from one side of the plate effect the other side. It’s all intriguing to me.
I remember Izturis (not that he hit anything from either side) abandoning one of his sides midway through the season.
I think I'd rather see Holliday in center than Craig
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
fixed
I think I’d rather see gold glove finalist Holliday in center than Craig
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
really?
i feel like Craig has more range, but i guess i always underestimate Holliday’s range just based on how awkward he looks
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
pretty much
Craig’s robbery of Cruz notwithstanding, I don’t think we have a reason to expect Craig’s range to be better than Lego’s. I think Holliday’s faster, (usually) takes better routes on flies, and has a better arm than Craig. Craig’s natural positions (IMHO) are LF & 1B.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
Holliday definitely has a better arm, that i can see
i haven’t seen anything personally that makes me think either of the first two are true, but again, i am a very poor judge of outfield defense. if i hadn’t developed a man-crush on him and watched him closely, i’d probably tell you Ludwick was a bad defender.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
I really don't see Allen Craig being worth 2.5 WAR at 2B
and you also have to consider the make-up of our startign staff (groundballers all).
Assuming Descalso is average (or slightly better) with the glove (which, admittedly, is a decent-sized assumption, but my eyes say he probably is) he’s probably about a 2 WAR second baseman.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
What are your thoughts on Descalso's hitting ability?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 1, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty equivalent to everyone else's I guess
Seemed to take a while to catch up to major league pitching, and I don’t think he’s ever going to be the hitter we hoped he was after that great year in Springfield, but I suspect he’ll be able to pepper a few singles around the place, hit 5 or 6 dingers a year and walk at an acceptable rate for a glove-first guy. I’d hope he’ll round out as “slightly below average” eventually. He’s a tiny bit worse than that now, but with (as I said) above-average 2B defence that makes a 2 WAR player. If he can up his hitting a little he could be a tiny bit better but, low ceiling overall I think.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
If by wins you mean WAR, then you are incorrect
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i know descalso was the negative defender this year.
but i’m not sure i buy that long term.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
No, WAR adjusts for position changes. Your WAR is the same no matter what position you play
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i know it adjusts for position and what not.
what’s your point?
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
"allen craig is likely worth at least -1 wins in defense at second base. install descalso there and he’s probably worth at least .5 wins there"
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Why would you ignore offense in this equation?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Again, why would you ignore how much better Craig is going to be than the average 2B on offense?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
fair enough.
but he’s also probably the best fourth outfielder in baseball. what’s more valuable? having craig be the 3rd or 4th best offensive second baseman and be one of the worst defensively or have him be the best fourth outfielder in baseball?
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i mean, objectively i'd say the first one
because he’s in the game every day. having the best fourth outfielder in baseball is pretty worthless unless you play him consistently.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
yeah,
if Dan Uggla was a 4th outfielder, he wouldn’t be nearly as valuable as he has been in his career. Also, one all star game wouldn’t have been nearly as embarrassing.
I don't think Descalso's "at least" a 5.0 UZR second basemen either.
I think he’s decidedly average and maybe a bit above. You would dispute that with me, but he’s obviously not AT LEAST 5.0 UZR.
President of the Tyler Greene fan club - Wiki - PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE
Google+ <
Follow me @thestlcardsfan4
I worded it the way I did for a reason :)
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
It's misleading. A player's WAR won't be the same in different positions.
I’ve used this example before, but Lance Berkman and Albert Pujols would not have had the same WAR this year that they had in their current positions, if you switched them. Most obviously, Pujols would be worse in RF than Berkman in practice, but he’d have to be much better than Berkman for your statement to be true (which again, it isn’t).
And this is even using an example that’s remotely possible, considering Berkman’s ability to play 1B (although Albert playing the outfield at this point is pretty far-fetched).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 1, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you elaborate on this
but he’d have to be much better than Berkman for your statement to be true (which again, it isn’t).
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
No, WAR adjusts for position changes. Your WAR is the same no matter what position you play
That’s a gross over-simplification in practice. See Dunn, Adam.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, I worded it the way I did for a reason
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
and what was that reason
i don’t get it
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Their WAR is the same
They are not the same player, and the team will not allow the same number of runs
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Yes, but that's clearly not true
their WAR will not be the same. You can’t just move Matt Holliday to catcher and expect him to only be about 1.5 WAR worse in practice. The positional adjustment is a measure of the offensive premium placed on each position, on average. It doesn’t mean that, strictly in practice, you can move a guy hugely across the defensive spectrum and his UZR component will be increased or decreased by exactly the same amount as the fixed positional adjustment value.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually the positional adjustment is based off defense rather than offense
Your point stands though – it’s just the average.
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
Um, without Tony do bench guys get 400 PA's
That was Tony’s strong suit, getting everyone involved
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 2:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Um, without Tony do bench guys get 400 PA's
That was Tony’s strong suit, getting everyone involved
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 4:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Belated double post
Phone browser refresh= stupid
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 4:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you guys I heard this news item
that the Cardinals won the World Series.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I am incredulous.
Post proof or retract.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Has everyone heard this? BBC's call of Freese's walkoff..
by all4tookie on Nov 1, 2011 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 12 recs
we need this guy instead of Rick and Al
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 1, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
he hit that for six of the best
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
pretty good
if he’d just leave out the “extra time” reference.
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 1, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
the "9 all" was good too
if only you ’mericans used that, and nil.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
naught and zed.
Pip, pip, cheerio, and all that, wot wot?
DO YOU THINK IT'S NOT GOING TO BE WHAT IT IS?!!
by Vindicator9000 on Nov 1, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
GAAAH
new avatar. i thought you were OC this whole time.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
That's right. Off-season changes! Though I appreciate Barton's service for the team, I felt it was time we parted ways.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
You better watch it. I bet there are a LOT of people here who think your avatar is someone from Twilight.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
Now those people are thinkin
WTF is a Jack Benny?
(Answer: the name of a plate special at the MCL Cafeteria in Springfield, IL.)
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
I think he might be related to Guay's grandma.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
by a fink on Nov 1, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Heh. Yeah, it's a good one.
If you’re referring to my post specifically, I didn’t originate it. I think guay himself did, but I’m not sure.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
correct.
It was a strange summer.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
now that would be an outrage
but if they wanted to believe that jack benny was harry potter at 65, who am I to say no?
I have nothing against it. I thought it was a lot of fun, though nothing more than that.
I suspect if I was born 8 years earlier, I would absolutely love it.
(I’ve only read the first 3 or 4 books)
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
do you mean eight years later?
and from a literary stand-point, it’s really important whether you read the first three or the first four. try to remember.
i thought, frankly, harry potter kind of blew until the fourth book, where rowling clearly came into her own as a writer. 1-3 are children’s stories. good ones, but still just that. 4-7 are literature.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
heh. Yep, later.
I’ll probably read them at some point, though this winter is full-up:
-Finish David Copperfield
-Read all of Cather.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
well, I'll start with the prairie trilogy and go from there.
I’ll probably skip a couple of the novels and add the short story collections. We’ll see. I’m ambitious because I’m not doing any teaching next semester, and my work at the internship will be far less.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
oh, so you have a lot more free time.
that makes sense and makes the goal a little more manageable.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
yeah, looking now she has a few more novels than I thought.
“All” looks unlikely, but we’ll see.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
and The Professor's House is so weirdly beautiful
"What I said is what I said. At the time, the moment was heated. Maybe I shouldn't have said it. But it is what it is." -- Nyjer Morgan
Are you a fan of J. Irving's books?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 1, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven't read him much, and what I did read I was probably too young for at the time.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
I would start with The Water-Method Man
as it is relatively light, and funny. Then on to Garp, The Cider House Rules, and A Prayer for Owen Meany. I’m not a big fan of his other novels, but I’ve read most of them.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 1, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
GOD TIER
prisoner of azkaban
goblet of fire
order of the phoenix
GOOD TIER
sorcerer’s stone
chamber of secrets
CHARACTERIZATION DISASTER WITH COOL STUFF IN IT TIER
half-blood prince
PACING DISASTER WITH COOL STUFF IN IT TIER
deathly hallows
books or movies?
/hasn’t read rest of thread
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
POA is by far my favorite movie.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I still can't believe that they let the guy
fresh off of “Y Tu mama tambien” direct a Harry Potter movie
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Agreed. I think it's the best of the films as film
"What I said is what I said. At the time, the moment was heated. Maybe I shouldn't have said it. But it is what it is." -- Nyjer Morgan
Remember that time Harry and Hermione didn't end up together?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
the deathly hallows is probably my favourite book,
but i don’t think it’s the best.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
i agree, except unlike every other harry potter fan ever, i hate azkaban
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
wow
yeah, that’s actually the first time I’ve ever heard that expressed. depending on how I’m feeling that’s my favorite—it’s where her writing improves dramatically, the plotting and characterization get more complex, and she’s still being edited more tightly than she would be in the rest of the series.
maybe it's the editing
i’m not sure. or maybe i’m just not as big of a fan of the books in which they are all younger and less disillusioned- i’m certainly not going to say the writing is amateur or anything. it’s a definite improvement in WRITING over the first two- but as someone who is not a writer and typically judges books like harry potter only based on their entertainment value to me, this means little to me.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
explain the "characterization disaster" characterization
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
all the teenage lovelorn stuff just rang really false to me
and after ootp, which has the most sustained darkness to it of the whole series, it just seemed like the three main characters somehow regressed and got more childish instead of having to deal with that. plus—and clearly this is me talking as a bitter loser in the shipping wars—I thought the decision to show us how hot ginny was by having everybody walk up to harry and say, “man, ginny sure is hot now, right buddy?” was pretty amateurish.
there are moments in HBP that I really love (anything with dumbledore in it), but I think she fumbled the character arcs.
gotcha
i would agree with that for the most part
but leaving ron childish until the end was key to his character arc, IMHO
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
This is so wrong
the only interesting thing about Order of the Phoenix was the Room of Requirement. Otherwise, that book was deadly dull. It’s why it’s the one movie in the series I have yet to see.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 1, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, i disagree sir
my second favorite book, just barely behind Goblet
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
you and I could not disagree more
you love goblet and hate prisoner of azkaban? That’s the exact opposite of how I would rate them.
heh
yeah. i’m speaking purely books here- i don’t like the movies, and have not seen most of them.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
wow
disagree completely…that book was the crux of the whole series IMHO
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
I sort of liked Order of the Phoenix but that book is when I learned I hated Harry Potter as a character.
Love the story, strongly dislike the guy.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
He's basically a jock that gets lucky at everything
and uses his social connexions to succeed.
But I guess the point was that he never really was the hero—the adults pulling the strings were.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
agreed
HP is one of the few book series I love where I can’t actually pick out a major character I really, really like.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Tonks
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Also good.
And Lupin. I always really liked Lupin.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
i liked Lupin at first
and then lost all respect for him when he went into deep self pity mode for a while.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
tonks is the ultimate mary sue character
attractive quirky female with special exotic power whose character flaw involves running into things
I am eagerly awaiting
the anime adaptation of her life.
I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is.
by the red baron on Nov 1, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of,
(anime, not awkward Tom Cruise-quoting internet dude romance), I finally got around to watching Eden of the East last week. Top notch. I was worried at first it was going to play out overly Memento-like, but those concerns proved unfounded. Very solid series.
I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is.
by the red baron on Nov 1, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Almost exactly.
(Eagerly awaiting the angry response when he watches and discovers it’s totally not like that.)
I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is.
by the red baron on Nov 1, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
eden of the east != east of eden, then?
what a sham.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Nope.
Eden of the East (Higashi no Eden) is set in near-future, with a group of individuals throughout the world given ten billion dollars apiece and a high-tech cell phone with the world’s best concierge service, then instructed to save the world using said money and said cell phone.
So, you know, really more like Cannery Row than East of Eden.
I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is.
by the red baron on Nov 1, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Where are you watching this?
I usually watch my anime on crunchyroll… but East of the Eden isn’t on it…
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
I download them all
from anime-plus, usually. If there’s something I want and can’t find on there, I’ll just cast about until I can find a stream or something.
I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is.
by the red baron on Nov 1, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Cool...
I’ll look it up, thanks!
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
Welcome.
I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is.
by the red baron on Nov 1, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, it avoided any one cliche I was worried about it hitting
by kind of taking liberally from all of them. glad you liked it.
I still need to watch the second movie, but I haven’t even gotten around to buying the haruhi movie yet so I’m way behind.
Haven't checked out either of the movies yet.
And speaking of being behind, just to add on to your backlog, I’ll highly highly recommend Mirai Nikki, new this season. The setup actually reminds me of Higashi no Eden quite a bit, in that you have a group of people recruited into a game with cell phones the central source of abilities, but Mirai Nikki (literally Future Diary), has the dark quotient turned way, way up.
Each character has a cell phone diary that tells the future, and using those diaries they have to find all the other participants and kill them. The winner becomes God. Each diary has a specific focus, based on the character’s personality; for instance, one tells only escape routes to take, one only follows police investigations, things like that.
It’s rather intense, but also borderline brilliant so far. (Only a handful of episodes are out so far.)
I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is.
by the red baron on Nov 2, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Although, to be fair,
she would have to be significantly more, um, top heavy to fully qualify as an anime heroine.
I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is.
by the red baron on Nov 1, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
what!
I hate Tonks. She’s the manic pixie dream girl, except Rowling did a shitty job and instead she’s just the Kirstin Dunst version of Natalie Portman.
Still not a werewolf.
Also, depressed throughout book 6 to exaggerated and exasperating degree
why? No, not because Sirius dies, but OHHHHHHH MAN WHY WON’T LUPIN EVER LOOOOOOVE ME
Still not a werewolf.
this is like the first time we've disagreed on something.
i don’t know what to do.
she is a manic pixie dream girl, but i am a sucker for them.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I really, really like Oliver Wood.
And the Weasley twins. And the made up characters in my head (I’ve said too much).
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
yeah
Tonks and Wood are my favorite two characters, but you can hardly call Wood a major character… i guess Tonks is one.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
No Wood is not a major character.
I was sort of agreeing with you by mentioning him. I also always liked Snape because I always knew he was good but had had rough times so there was a reason he was like he was. Which wasn’t a terrible, awful person but someone rough around the edges. Unlike Harry who in the fifth book became whiny and acted like a brat the whole time. I realize he had a rough life too but it seemed overdone to the point that I could forgive him for it.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Should say couldn't int he last sentence.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
Weasley twins are my wife's favorites.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Snape...
Lee Jordan, and the Weasley Twins were great…
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
She made
Neville a likable character in my opinion. He was a badass in the Deathly Hallows. An underdog story.
Slytherin swine.
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
You probably all hate muggles too...
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
Haha...
me too…. *forgiven
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
classic hufflepuff response...
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
hufflepuff.
even the name sounds like a waste of space.
as for my reasoning, simplistic as it may be:
gryffindor: douchbags
slytherin: evil, like comically so; rowling’s biggest flaw was portraying evil in a completely un-nuanced way
hufflepuff: why do you guys exist?
ergo, ravenclaw. also, luna lovegood.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
by il rosso on Nov 1, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
TYPICAL RAVENCLAW
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
by VolsnCards5 on Nov 1, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
wow. we've had some really terrible threads lately
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
by IHeartBoog on Nov 1, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
TAKE THAT BACK
but seriously, what was terrible about this thread?
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
(pssst, harry potter is awful)
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
CEDRIC DIGGORY WAS A HUFFLEPUFF
HE WENT ON TO BE THE HOTTEST VAMPIRE OF ALL TIME
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
LAWL
but cedric diggory is like the only important hufflepuff ever, and he only serves as a foil to harry’s love interests and as a person who can die later.
[this thread should have a massive spoiler warning tag]
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
LUKE IS HIS FATHER
THEY DON’T FIND NEMO
HALEY JOEL OSMENT WAS DEAD THE WHOLE TIME
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
I was at a wedding this summer and my cousins were just then plowing through the series
and hadn’t been snape-kills-dumbledore’d. talking to the three of them was like walking out of a time machine.
hufflepuff is all about being a pleasant human being
I’m okay with that. also, I hope to someday be addressed as “the spare.”
i think you can be a decent human
without having to never be a significant part of the plot, oh, dan, the sparse one.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Once again
CEDRIC DIGGORY!
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Seriously though
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
I'd be good with Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
i never understood the "hate harry" faction
dude was basically abused until he was 11….then found out his parents were killed by a dark wizard who may or may not be coming back to kill him…not to mention there was a bully at school always picking on him and a professor who was clearly out to get him
the guy had a lot to be pissed about—we’re lucky he didn’t destroy hogwarts mass shooter style
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
he got pretty angsty in book 5 if i recall correctly
spending the whole book whining and shouting at people is annoying, whether justified or not
Don't say hi to me.
Really wasn't his fault either...
(spoiler alert) He had a horcruxe inside of him… Imagine how insufferable Ron would’ve been if he had the necklace on all 7 books.
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
this
people forget he had evil all up in him
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
agreed
he’s an ass in ootp but of all the instances of characters being jackasses in this series that one’s the most justified (and the most important to the arc of the story.)
what I like about harry is that rowling had a clear idea of what the books were supposed to say about heroics—that this is a triumph of decent people, not the very best mankind has to offer—and she was willing to make her hero not especially heroic or thrilling in order to pull those through. so he’s a good-not-great fighter who’s mainly just good at flying, he’s a decent person with legitimate personal failings who makes serious mistakes, and eventually he only wins because he has the capacity to love other people and be loved.
you just summed up 7 books in one paragraph
well done
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
making a judgement based on the first 3 0r 4 books
is like making a tolkein judgement based on the hobbit
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
That big of a difference?
I’ll read them sometime, but those first three are, well, terrible literature (but, like I said, fun).
The Hobbit has way more going for it than those HP books.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
to me, yes...that big of a difference
and yes the hobbit was much better than the first 2-3 harry’s
but LOTR was much better than Harry alltogether, so the analogy fits
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
Hm. Well, I'll give 'em a shot sometime!
I suspect the young ’un will want them read to her.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
I really like both HP and LOTR for different reasons...
HP was a lot easier to read than LOTR, which dragged every-once-in-awhile for me… but when LOTR caught fire I blazed through it (I was also younger when I read LOTR). Both amazing book series…
Ever read Pullman’s His Dark Materials? (Golden Compass, Subtle Knife, Amber Spyglass) I loved those just as much – the subtle knife was incredible. It was really sad the movie busted… and the trilogy was abandoned.
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
yeah, they're really fantastic books
especially if you enjoy scifi tinged stuff.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Oh man, you HAVE to read His Dark Materials
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
um.
the golden compass is the only good book in that series. in my opinion.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Disagree strongly
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
wow
dislike for Amber Spyglass I would understand, but Subtle Knife is so good…
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
subtle knife is easily the best one in my opinion...
amber spyglass is definitely the weakest book in the trilogy though.
Don't say hi to me.
I thought the spyglass and the golden compass
were pretty equal… but the suble kniff was crazy good… I got chills on a few occasions…
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
whoa, okay.
i’ll re-read the series. apparently i was mistaken, haha. i just remember that i thought that the quality of the literature steadily declined as the series progressed.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
oh i'm sorry
are you talking about The Northern Lights?
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
yeah
that one’s called The Golden Compass stateside
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
I'm fully aware of that
possibly the only book where the title actively disagrees with the book’s content.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
THE DUSTY DUST
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Northern Lights made me feel really intellectual and clever
when i read it at age 11. Then i read it again when i was 18 and it just seemed fucking dumb.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
Nobody knows what you're saying
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Philosopher's stone...
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
Never read any of it.
Only seen about half the first movie.
/I’llshowmyselfout
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
god that was fantastic
that guy blew the doors off Joe Buck, and I actually like Joe Buck
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
one thing we can do
commentate on sporting events
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
also, rock music
this is important
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
How does VEB continually do this
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Do what?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Nov 1, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Take a completely innocuous comment and turn it into a 500 post subthread about the merits of chimneys or some shit
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
by mysterui on Nov 1, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
masonry chimneys > factory chimneys
discuss
by all4tookie on Nov 1, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
masonry chimneys are susceptible to earthquakes
Reinforced concrete would make a better chimney.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
What if you live in an area that doesn't experience earthquakes?
What benefits do masonry chimneys provide?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
premium aesthetics!
plus, more diversity of compatible stove types should one choose to make a change down the road
What do you think about chimney sweeps?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
dancing or non-dancing ?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
says the dude starting all the fashion and futball threads
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Futbol.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
We have all the twitters.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
Maybe nexdef'd but I fanshotted this.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
great call -- best of the bunch I heard
love how he works in the fact that the Rangers could have won it twice
Just win
the taiwan animation people are killing me
I finally got the press release for their cardinals world series win video three days after the fact. what am I, some kind of second-class mailing-list citizen?
The secret to David Freese's awesomeness at the plate
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 1, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
still bitter, danup
maybe you inadvertently said something about Taiwan. or skip schumaker
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
The Cards led the NL in wRC+ in 2008
Huh.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Oh yeah that was the Luddy year
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
couldn't pitch worth a damn that year though....
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
actually, now that I'm thinking about it
I remember 2008 as the year of the tremendously awful bullpen
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
i only went to three games at Busch that year
Franklin blew two of them and Pujols failed to put a Lidging on Lidge in the 9th.
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 1, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't it also the year of
Todd Wellemeyer only-season-in-his-career-when-he-was-nearly-league-average?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally bought into that dude as a future ace
ah, hindsight.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I advised my friend to get him as a late round guy in fantasy that year
Seemed to have good stuff but just (other than 2008) never really made it work due to approach, mental makeup, inconsistent delivery or whatever (Kip Wells redux I guess).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
We didn't make the cover of SI this week
I kinda saw this coming since the World Series took up the last two covers, but I was really looking forward to a companion to my framed ’06 Eckstein cover.
Still hoping for possibly a special regional cover.
what a fucking joke.
what’s the cover?
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
the same packers who were on a bye this weekend?
freaking SI.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it's the NFL midseason issue
Which they made a double issue this year, presumably to make up for not having an NBA Preview issue. It’s the NBA’s fault!
SI has a Cardinals World Series edition already on the shelves
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 1, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
not sure if this was touched upon, but reds picked up brandon philllips' $12 million option
“If they just pick my option up and don’t extend me, I feel like that’s a slap in my face,” Phillips said. "If the team wants you, they will make room. They will show you they want you here, period. They did it for some of the other guys.
they can't afford him.
#BPforStLCards2B2013
i will continue beating this drum.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
how bout
#BP forStlCardsSS2013
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Wait a minute
is he….whining?
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 1, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Heh. SI says the Cards are the best fit for Aaron Harang.
They also think we’ll keep Albert and Furcal
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
Dave Duncan...
seems to think we will, also.
by mynameistyler on Nov 1, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
what the hell does harang do that lohse and wesbtrook don't?
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Our starting rotation is totally set
unless a trade partner can be found for Lohse and/or Westbrook. Given their salaries, that is highly unlikely unless Hank Steinbrenner loved the scoreless inning Westy threw in Game 6 of the WS.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 1, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Or we can dump half their salary
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
he was the reason we won game six
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Nov 1, 2011 2:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Yanks do need some starters
and as long as he only watched us in the World Series and does not investigate any further, I think Westbrook is just the man for him
plus he has experience in the AL
He has that Broadway smile, too
He’s a handsome fella
One word. No trade clause.
Let’s hope Westie finds the strike zone with his 2 seamer.
Irish provenance of the schwa pronunciation of vowels in weakly stressed syllables -> Missoura
Does Westbrook really have a NTC?
Cot’s doesn’t list him with one.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Westie doesn't have a NTC
does he?
(quick check of Cot’s doesn’t show one)
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 1, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought he got a NTC in lieu of a third year
or am i totally misremembering
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
"Westbrook has a NTC" has been said here more than once recently.
It may well be true. I’m too lazy to look anywhere other than Cot’s for it.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Westy got a NTC because the Cards gave him a mutual option on Year 3 as opposed to a guaranteed year. Gotta say we probably swung that the right way, all things considered.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
Thanks for the research, everyone.
TheMoreYouKnow.jpg
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
His Wiki page
says he has a “blanket no-trade clause”
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 1, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
But, of course, everything is negotiable
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 1, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I like how Bissinger attributes to TLR winning the World Series as a shot against Moneyball
And how Joe Strauss attributed us losing earlier in the season as a fault of Moneyball
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Bad sentence is bad
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
buzz bissinger and joe strauss
would make great contestants on a themed episode of who’s more grizzled.
So, the team that led the NL in WAR winning the WS
Disproves moneyball?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 4:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Apparently!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Watching Freese on Leno
(The only reason I turned on Leno) makes me realize just how much I can’t stand Justin Bieber. It’s just that whole faux shy/girlish attitude. If it had been Carpenter on Leno, instead of Freese, I think Bieber would have a Samsonite logo permanently embedded in his head
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 1, 2011 1:50 PM EDT reply actions
CCDNGAFAJB
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 1, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
so what are we trading freese for?
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:51 PM EDT reply actions
We could actually get a lot for him
And purely objectively, it’s probably still an okay move to make. But you just can’t.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
the female fans of the cardinals would go on strike.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, agreed
i was wholeheartedly in the “trade David Freese” camp all year, and even now, i think it’s a good baseball move, but i don’t know how you could justify it to the fan base.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
YES YOU CAN
Age 29 (already)
Bad defense
Low walk rate
Inflated BABIP
Replacement(s) lined up
Trading Freese is a no-brainer… Package him up and get an ace starter.
we don't have anyone in the minors who can come up and replicate his level of production.
also, i don’t think he had bad defense. also, he’s had a high BABIP his entire career, including the minor leagues.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
why am i too dumb to figure out his average BABIP for his career
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
you're not dumb
you’re just blinded by his beauty
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
but how do i do it.
i can’t add it up each season and divide by the seasons because there are varying PAs per season. all i know is he’s had over 2300 total PAs throughout his major and minor league career and his BABIP has never been below .345
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
that only gives you his career major league numbers
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
averaging BABip for a career
Figure out the balls batted into play. BIP
PA – BB – HBP – K – HR
Figure out hits that were home runes
hits – HR
add these up for his career
Divide the first number by the second number
Grit != flat out sucking.
nope
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
wait
Are you trying to figure out what his career BABip is? Or just average them together?
If you are trying figure out what his career BABip is, doing the method I posted above will take how many hits he had that weren’t home runs and divide it by the number of balls hit into play. Which will give you his BABip for his career.
If you are just wanting to average them, add them together and divide by the number of years.
Grit != flat out sucking.
yeah but the problem is some years he had way more ABs than others
if i do that, i get his career average to be like .416. but that’s because, for instance in 2010 he had a BABIP of 1.000 in 3 PAs in the minors. i don’t know how to account for that
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
which is why you do it the first way
Balls hit into play = (H -HR) / (PA – BB – K – HR – HBP)
For instance in 2011
( 99 Hits – 10 HR) / (363 PAs – 24 BB – 75K – 10HR – 4HBP)
89 / 250
356
If you want to do his 2011 + 2010 you get
(170H – 14HR) / (633 PA – 45 BB – 134K – 10HR – 8 HBP)
156/432
.361 BABIP.
You you just have to add up all his seasons like this.
Grit != flat out sucking.
and that's why i said nope
who has time for that
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
time?
It takes like 30 seconds.
If it’s an issue because you want to do it with multiple players, you can download the CSV from baseball-reference and import it into excel. And then just have excel do all the calculations.
Grit != flat out sucking.
isn't this on fangraphs or something?
it seems like BABIP is mainstream enough to be on a big site.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
im pretty sure the link above is at least
all of the regular season .babip (minors and majors) for freese. But I didn’t check the math. One thing that separating them out like I did, it allows you to easily regress the BABip to what ever you want.
For instance, David had a .line of .297 / .355 / .426 /.780 combined in 2010-2011. If he had a .310 BABIP during that time, he would have had a .258 / .318 / .387 / .705.
Note, when I regress hits away from someone, I always assume that it’s just singles that are being taken away. Since we are trying to remove the “luck” factor. Doubles and triples are almost always well struck balls. It just doesn’t seem right to me to regress those.
Also, these were just the regular season numbers I was playing with.
Grit != flat out sucking.
babip has really high variance in the minors
and isn’t that great of a stat to use.
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 1, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
but its remarkably consistent
230 PA in A ball = .346
592 PA in A+ ball = .345
510 PA at memphis 2008 = .350
225 PA at memphis 2009 = .355
270 PA w/ stl 2010 = .375
363 PA w/ stl 2011 = .356
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Worse pitchers, too
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
if you average those years
(weighted by PA which, I realize, isn’t quite accurate) you get a career BABIP of .353
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 1, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
batters babip has a significant non luck component
and is only marginally valuable in saying that a hitter was lucky.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I'd like to see how his BAbip compares to other righties
who hit to right fielder at the percentage that freese does.
But I wouldn’t like to do the work.
Grit != flat out sucking.
this is an offseason project i have.
i’m curious if guys who hit to all fields naturally have a better babip because you can’t position your defense very well against them.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Even if true, a BABIP of like .330 is ~2 standard deviations above average
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
but is it ~2 standard deviations above the average right handed hitter with 60% of his hits to left field
Grit != flat out sucking.
I can't see there being enough of a sample size for this study to be close to conclusive
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
doesn't need to be conclusive
I doubt if IHB is out to change the way everyone views how a right handed power bat should hit. She just wants to do an interesting study.
BABip is a skill for batters. It’s not luck. Now, there is a good bit a luck that goes into it. When you see someone like freese, or jay, who have a high BABip, you have to ask yourself “is there anything that this person does that is different than what most players are doing?” If the answer is yes, then you have to ask yourself “is there any one else who is doing this?” Once you have this you can start comparing them to other like players. It may not be conclusive. But it may give some insight on how much luck is built into that.
Grit != flat out sucking.
exactly.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
And there are plenty of HOF hitters that can maintain that
batters BABIP isn’t a luck stat. Three true outcomes hitters and fast dudes will sustainably have higher than league average BABIPs
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
It's partially luck and partially skill
And TTO guys don’t have higher BABIPs. They have higher variances in BABIP
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Irrespective
you can find hitters that have really high BABIPs, over a large sample size.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Yes, I agree with you. And yes, they tend to be HoF players
And no, I don’t think Freese is one of them.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Eh, I don't think I've seen anyone do this systematically
I just think that hitters babpi has a luck and a skill component. Runners can outrun the ball, they have control over where they hit the ball. It’s not like a pitcher at all.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I think there's a very good chance Matt Carpenter is as good or better right now
but I’m still not especially keen on trading Freese, I just don’t think other GMs would value him that highly. Of course, if we really COULD get back an ace starter, then I’d probably do it, but I don’t think that’s likely.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Or, as he's known
Ruben Amaro.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt Carpenter most likely could replicate what David Freese has done in the regular season for us
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
everybody says this but I don't believe it
The only area where he has a clear, indisputable advantage over Freese is walk rate….Freese’s defense looks good to me, and Freese has more power.
I mean, I could be wrong, but I don’t think MC is really pushing Freese that much.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
Freese has a career .131 ISO in the Majors, and defense is probably a wash
Freese definitely has a better hit tool though
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I have no idea
His career HR/FB is actually a tick above league average. Probably not, honestly. Oppo hitters generally don’t have big power numbers
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
i'm so conflicted on this
i want to believe yes, based on what people said about him in the minors, and what he looked like for the past 2 months… but i just don’t know.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
yeah, I like the narrative that he's just getting healthy, and what we've seen of late is at least partly real.
But it’s not necessarily true.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
we kept expecting Freese to hit for more power this year
and all thru the reg. season we were scratching our head about it. Then in the playoffs (presumably against above average pitchers) he goes on a slugging binge. And it’s not like he’s been a dead-pull hitter who’s just closing his eyes and swinging hard.
I’d hate to overvalue what he did in October, but it doesn’t really seem that fluky. His BABIP might be due to fall, but I think it’s only fair to expect his OBP to remain more or less stable because teams will pitch him more carefully.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
lets not forget he had a broken hand earlier this year
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I'd expect his ISO to nudge up a touch
whilst his BABIP and BA will nose downwards. Overall I’m guessing he’ll be a slightly less-valuable hitter going forward than he’s been so far.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but I don't think we can project Carpenter for that much
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
i see what you're saying but
freese has never had one full healthy year. until he does, this is all just speculation
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
Carpenter won't have the walk rate he has in the minors
Because major league pitchers can throw strikes, and Carpenter isn’t a power threat. So they aren’t going to be afraid of making mistakes in the zone and will continue pounding it when they fall behind.
Grit != flat out sucking.
i thought walk rate was something that translated extremely well from MiLB stats upwards
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
supposedly
but if his didn’t, I think EF provided a pretty good reason why not
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
sure
explanation makes total sense, i don’t know enough to argue the other side even if i felt that way. i guess that was a minor non sequitur on my part.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Yeah and look at Theriot this year
He started his first year with a decent walk rate that make him actually slightly valuable but for the last five years noone has been afraid to pitch to a guy who only hits homers in Minute Maid. Carpenters power isn’t as bad a Theriots and I actually think Matt is a nice little player but Freese’s increase of power is a huge advantage and now that he has a reputation guys pitching around him will raise his walk rate and remember he’s been injured like crazy which not only lessens playing time to collect AB’s for dingers, it saps power, especially hand injuries. Healthy Freese should be even better even as hit BABIP goes down
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 5:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Comparied to BA and Power it does
But not for all hitters.
Ryan theriot had 11% or greater walk rate in all of his minor leage seasons. Including a full season around 16%.
I’m not saying that Matt Carpenter is Ryan Theriot. But I wouldn’t expect Carpenter to continue to put up a 13% walk rate in the majors. At least not enough that I would trade away Freese to give him the chance to do it.
Grit != flat out sucking.
gotcha
makes sense.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
just to add
On why it does translate well for a lot of hitters. Without looking up Carpenter’s numbers, one thing I’m sure of is that he has an excellent idea of what is a strike and what isn’t. And he doesn’t swing at too many pitchers outside the zone.
Theriot is also pretty good at recognizing a ball from a strike. And he is good at fouling away pitches. His “though At Bats” was the thing that drew TLR to him, so much so that he decided to start him at short stop. But it rarely translated into walks because, why would walk Theriot?
Grit != flat out sucking.
Carpenter isn't quite as punchless as people make out
double digit homers each of the last two years, and he hits quite a lot of doubles as well. I also wouldn’t expect a 13% BB rate in the majors but he’s put up a 125 wRC+ in AAA, which is pretty much where Freese was at, without riding a crazy BABIP. I think he’s got enough punch that he’ll end up equating to a roughly league-average (or slightly better) hitter in the majors, pretty much straight away.
FWIW I think both MCarp and Freese have significant questions about some aspects of their toolset going forward, so I’d be kinda happy to keep both (and maybe even consider a limited platoon).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 2, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think this is for certain.
Or even necessarily likely. I wonder how much of the very small amount of power he has at AAA will show up in the majors. I think we’re better off keeping Freese for another year and hoping Cox is ready go by 2013 if Freese is falling apart in either health or performance.
No reason to exclude playoff games there; only thing it accomplishes
is making the comparison closer by making Freese’s sample smaller.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Nov 1, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
and he's only 28
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
the only way Freese is getting moved at this point
is with a completely over the top offer. Like, Tulowitzki or somebody. Kershaw. Something completely unreasonable. I don’t think Freese is going anywhere.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
actually, i think a more fun game would be
what would make you actually think about trading him? i think my list would start and end with people like Matt Moore, which i doubt would be a tier of players available…
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
the dolphins QB?
interesting.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
as a St. Louis sports fan
would you trade David Freese to get Luck to the Rams?
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
hell no. and i'm sick of this discussion.
the saint louis rams have absolutely no need for andrew luck. if they received the #1 pick in the draft they would trade it miami for 2012 and 2013 first round picks and jake long.
it’s all moot anyway. the rams are going to 4-5 more games and get like the 10th pick.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
i was just wondering
also, Miami would not make that trade. but yeah, i think you’re right- i don’t think St. Louis is going to be there anyway.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
i know they wouldn't, but it's fun to speculate.
the rams schedule is MUCH, MUCH easier from here on out (with really only games @SF and @pitt not winnable) and they have an actual, living NFL receiver on the roster now. once we get out actual, living NFL QB back we could play the role of a pretty decent spoiler.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I only saw a tiny sliver of the game on Sunday
but in less than 5 minutes I saw two reverses go for first downs. Jackson looked as good as I’ve ever seen him.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
i know everyone deals with it and no one likes whiners BUT
the rams have just been RUMMAGED by injuries. starting RB, starting QB, starting RT have all missed time because of injuries. starting WR and great possession receiver, BOTH starting CB’s injured early and out for season. it’s been terrible.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
this must be some new use of the word rummage
of which i was previously unaware.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
ravaged
but yes, fang, i agree with you, even though i don’t like the Rams- never saw this coming. i think they made very silly WR personnel choices before the year, but otherwise i thought it looked like a good team. Jackson being out at the beginning of the year really killed them.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
they really, really, really need to sign lloyd.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, they do
that was a phenomenal pickup. NFL teams just don’t make moves like that, which is why the Rams got him.. for the life of me i don’t get it. why the hell didn’t the Patriots trade for him, for example?
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
FOR A FIFTH ROUNDER
consider what the raiders gave up to get palmer and then just laugh it up.
do subjunctive better
by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 1, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
the Palmer trade is just objectively bad from all angles. but again, i just don’t understand NFL trades. i wish i had played a skill position, because there has just got to be something about higher level playbooks i just don’t understand that changes the nature of midseason NFL acquisitions. it just never, ever happens, and when it does, the value in trade never makes ANY sense to me.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
pretty remarkable
imagine how good they’ll look when Bradford & Lloyd have been practicing together for a whole month or two
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
I thought it was a 6th
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
conditional, IIRC
upgraded to 5th if he does something? and he’ll probably do it now at this point
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Pats don't trade draft picks. They hord them
I can’t fault the Pats for their front office movies. Team has been great for a decade.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Patriots drafts over the past 4 or 5 years, minus the 2 2010 TEs, have been godawful
Mayo is the only true star they have turned out.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
yeah
although i would argue Brady makes them look a lot better than they are, they’re still both very good.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Brady definitely makes them look better
But either way they are matchup nightmares.
Not afraid to nitpick
Gronkowski is because of his physical abilities
Hernandez is just a really, really good route runner with good speed for a TE. i don’t think he has anything physically that distinguishes him from other good TEs in the NFL, except the ability to run good routes, and when you can do that, Brady just picks you apart.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
I agree, they built thier dynasty on great drafting
Then through some smart trades they kept winning and stockpiled draft picks. Now, while they still wisely stockpile draft picks, the try to recruit big name players and they stopped drafting well, makes you wonder who much longer they’ll be a power. Speaking of not drafting well, how about them Colts, eh?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 6:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah but the Colts have never really drafted well
when you have Peyton, it really doesn’t matter
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Untrue
The Colts drafted very well in the early part of the decade unmining starters and Pro Bowlers on both sides of the ball. The last 5 years have been a draft disaster. I will agree with you on your point about Manning, though.
Cards, Colts, and Pacers - Baseball, football, and basketball or gambling, guns, and old cars?
i'll give you the 2003 draft- that was a good one
but what other draft from 2000 on has been good? i guess 2000 was ok, they got Washington in the 2nd and Morris in the 1st. otherwise, they typically got a good player in the 1st round, just like people usually do, and MAYBE another decent player. 2005 was a complete flop, 2006 doesn’t look good right now, and then you have 2007-2011.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
No argument from me on 2006-2009 - still a bit early to judge the last two IMHO
2005 was a bust as well (though I must admit, I’m not as down on Jackson and Hayden as some), but every draft between 00-04 produced at least one Pro Bowler. Outside of 1st-Rounders, those drafts included starters Washington and Macklin (‘00), Bashir and Diem (’01), Tripplett and Thornton (‘02), Doss, Mathis and June (’03), David and Scott (‘04). That’s 11 non-1st-round-pick starters, including 3 Pro Bowlers (Washington, Mathis and June).
I also think Undrafted Free Agents are worth mentioning in this discussion. If we include UFAs, we would also be talking about Lilja (‘04), Rhodes (’01), and Brackett (’03). This would increase that total to 14 starters, a total with which I believe most NFL teams would be more than happy.
Cards, Colts, and Pacers - Baseball, football, and basketball or gambling, guns, and old cars?
Perhaps most importantly, to this blog.
Attended the same high school and graduating class as Scrabble. Also the son of HOF RB for the Rams, Jackie Slater.
pats traded for welker and moss
it’s not without precedent. The pats are great at getting the better end of trades, and a 5th rounder for Lloyd seems like one of those.
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
especially since they really, REALLY need a deep threat
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Depth helps there
The Packers we’re the most injured team in the NFL last year in starts missed, quarters missed by starters, players on IR, etc and one of the most injured in NFL history but depth won them a superbowl. On the other hand they weren’t very deep at CB and stayed remarkably healthy there. One major injury there last year and I’m not sure if the Packers are .500. The Rams this year had no depth at RT, got hurt there, no depth at CB and got mauled there, and. I talent at WR, not even needing injury to be ravaged there. A few good drafts and a you guys could win a lot, especially with Bradford and Long, hopefully it happens for you before Jackson gets too old, RB’s have a short shelf life.
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 5:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
they would probably dump a ton of picks
I doubt they part with long though…
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Nov 1, 2011 2:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah
the picks are one thing, Jake Long might be the most valuable non-QB player in the NFL, and you CERTAINLY don’t trade that with a rookie QB coming in
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
How about Josh Johnson?
Combine him with Carlos Martinez and something else… The Marlins aren’t winning in the next to years and I’m sure they don’t want to pay all that money for Johnson.
Hell no
Josh Johnson is on the verge of a serious shoulder injury…bank on it
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
Trevor Rosenthal Update (as of end of regular season)
120 1/3IP, 133 K, 52 BB/HBP, 55 ER, 7 HR, 3.04 FIP
Postseason: 2 Starts- 15 IP, 9 H, 10 K, 2 BB, 3 ER, 19:10 GO:AO
that sounds reasonable
i like Josh Johnson. wasn’t he out this year because of a difficult to pinpoint shoulder injury though? that would make me say negatory.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
he missed a year for TJ
then was shut down for the last 2 months of last year
then missed half the year this year with a bad shoulder
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 1, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah...
the TJ doesn’t scare me, but the shoulder is a big red flag
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
i dunno, didn't pitch after mid-May
and the articles that are coming up when i search say the doctors don’t know exactly what’s wrong.. that scares me
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Yeah...
no doubt. How about a play for one of the Mariners aces? Seems like we have a ton of trade chips in Jay, Freese, Cox, Craig, Lynn, Zep, etc… plus a deep farm system.
our starting rotation is full next year
and the only two guys we would want to move have NTCs
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
They don't have NBPCs...
or NGTFOCs…
And come to think of it I believe Westbrook is unable to block trades…
i don't know what your acronyms are
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
wait. no bullpen clauses
and no get the fuck out clauses. okay but we’re not going to trade the NLCS and WS MVP to put either multi-million dollar pitchers in the BP
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I could see another team maybe having a use for Westbrook, since he'll be relatively cheap for a SP
the Cards could afford to eat some salary to open up the spot. Lohse OTOH is probably untradeable, unless he manages to hypnotize the Angels Wells-style.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
He's not much less valuable than Derek Lowe, probably
The Braves had to eat all but $5m of Lowe’s salary to dump him. I guess if we ate 4-5m of Westbrook’s, and shipped him to some team (who’d have to pay the other $4m or so), that might work.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Nov 1, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the comp...
if someone will pay 5 for Lowe, we have to be able to find a taker for Westy at 3 or 4.
it's doable
and then they could just promote Lynn, who looks like he might be underused in the pen.
Waino-Carp-Garcia-Lynn-Lohse looks pretty good to me. If WB is gone, then keeping Dotel makes more sense (since Lynn isn’t in the pen any more). WB could bring back a couple AA level MIF or something.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
can't imagine they would trade Pineda
and i just don’t see the need for Felix on this team as presently constructed. obviously, you never want to say no to a guy like that, but what it would cost the Cardinals is pretty major. i’m not just speaking about trade value here, because honestly we probably have what it would take, and i would probably do the trade if it was just that value.
but you have to then make major roster machinations (get rid of Westy/Lohse, find bench bats to replace your trade chips, lose minor league depth) and you’re committing to an even top-heavier roster for a mid market team. personally, i wouldn’t be thrilled to having to commit in the 100s to Felix, with a lot of guys like that already on the roster.
Pineda i’d ABSOLUTELY go for, due to the cost-controlled nature, etc, but because of the same reasons i cannot believe there’s any chance the Mariners would trade him.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
I think the biggest team need right now really is middle infield
and then situational players, like a RH CF and maybe a second LH reliever. We just don’t have a lot of weaknesses at the moment.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
yeah
i would be tempted to try to find a full-time CF, but i recognize that it’s pretty difficult to do that in this league, and we already have a pretty good one against right-handers.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
I just wish he didnt have a noodle arm.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Nov 1, 2011 2:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I believe what happened was that he skipped a start with tendinitis in his shoulder
Then he missed another start, then he went on the 15 Day DL with no timetable, and then a month and a half later it was just announced that he was done for the season.
Based on the lack of timetable at all throughout the process, I doubt they know whats wrong with him.
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 1, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Josh Johnson Prime
the one with a functional shoulder.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
Lozano just got a little bit more busy
Beltran switched to him from Boras.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
and by that i mean
what is the name of the account. i want to find it.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
...FritzBoner
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
per MLB.com
Corey Patterson, OF: At 32, Patterson is not the weapon he once was, but he provides a veteran presence that can offer some value to an outfield. Patterson endured mixed results in 133 games split between the Blue Jays and Cardinals in 2011 (.239, six homers, 36 RBIs, 13 stolen bases), but he has experience hitting in all parts of the lineup (he has 100 or more career at-bats in every spot of the order except third, fourth and fifth) and could be an asset if he regains his legs and consistency at the plate.
World Series Champions 2011. Unbelievable. Tony LaRussa, you will be missed.
I believe this was written by his mom.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You could say this about any player
John McHitsballs could be really useful to the Rhode Island Roller Skates if he could just run like he did 5 years ago and also was able to recognise that when a pitcher throws a pitch that isn’t in the designated ‘strike zone’ he shouldn’t swing at it.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
by Aranathor on Nov 1, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
And that value?
He has a steady hand at the wheel of a zero-turn mower.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
umm corey patterson
Was once a “weapon” that’s news to me.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Nov 1, 2011 2:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And then he was drafted by the Cubs.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
3rd pick overall in 1998
Pat Burrell
Mark Mulder
Corey Patterson
Jeff Austin
JD Drew
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
who would have ever thought
That various pockets of St. Louis would come to despise 3 of the top 5 draft picks from 1998
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Just wait til we sign Pat Burrel
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
Eureka Springs, AR is...
Cardinals territory!
by mynameistyler on Nov 1, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey that's where I got married
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
It's...
the first town in which I played on stage. Hell of a place, that town.
by mynameistyler on Nov 1, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. It's a quaint place, to be sure
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Did your wife walk down the aisle to Dueling Banjos?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Wrong state...
and also 100% different from the rest of the state of Arkansas.
by mynameistyler on Nov 1, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't you ruin this beautiful image of rui's wedding for me.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i thought you were cool
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
You're Facebook friends with me
Check out the picture. Ballin’ place, brah
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
He was the #1 prospect in like 2003
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
that doesnt make him a weapon.
I still contend that the Corey Patterson part of the colby trade made it drastically worse. It’s like right after someone has just kicked you in the balls, as they step over your body they spit in your face. The spitting part, that’s what Corey Patterson was to me.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Nov 1, 2011 2:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that was really two trades
Rasmus for Dotel, Jackson, Zep
Miller, Tallet, PJ for Patterson
In the former, we gave up a lot to get back a lot. In the latter, we were allowed to dump half of our bullpen in exchange for the Jays being allowed to dump Patterson. All four of those players ended up being almost totally inconsequential the rest of the year. All 3 of Miller, Tallet, and Walters were gone from Toronto within a month or so, and Patterson received 2 PAs in a game exactly once in all of September.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
by nota bene on Nov 1, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Thats twice today i've heard things explained to me on VEB in new ways
that made me reconsider stuff.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
12 PAs in september
Er, it may have been 14 PAs, and 12 At Bats. But the season over, we won the world series, i’m not going to bring myself to look at his Corey Fucking Paterson’s states as a Cardinal.
Grit != flat out sucking.
GREATEST BUNTER ON 2011 STLCARDS
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
"regains his legs and consistency"
“More than 100 ABs at every spot except 3, 4, and 5” is hilarious too. In other words, people have been stupid enough to start him, but no one is stupid enough to bat him in a run-producing spot.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
he has experience hitting in all spots in the order
because of suckage. Though he could educate the younger players on how to strike out on a ball that hasn’t yet reached the plate.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Nov 1, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I wouldn't stick him at 3, 4, and 5 either
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 6:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Developing...
@BryanHoch
Bryan Hoch
Asked about Albert Pujols or Prince Fielder, Yanks GM Brian Cashman says he doesn’t see himself pursuing a bat. “Offense is not a problem.”
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
sounds right to me
the Yanks do not need either of Fielder or Pujols. They need pitching.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
Breaking News:
GM’s lie on occasion.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Nov 1, 2011 2:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
not that he is certainly
Lying, I just wouldn’t count them out until both players sign elsewhere.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Nov 1, 2011 2:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cashman has been on an honesty binge the past year or so
It’s hilarious if you haven’t been keeping up.
Not afraid to nitpick
It doesn't make much sense for them to have
both Pujols and Texiera. And they’ll have trouble finding someone with the salary room to take Tex’s contract.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Daniel Descalso
important part of the Cardinals roster for the next several years. Discuss.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Sure
Valuable utility guy. Probably a 1-2 WAR player
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
over several years
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
value coming from?
do you think his bat gets any better? or do you think he’s worth a couple wins based on defense and keeping up this league average hitting.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
I see him as an average-to-above-average defense and a below-average-to-average hitter
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
which makes for a useful backup
especially with the positional flexibility. If only he could hit a little better, we could just pencil him in as everyday 2B.
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
Can't type
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
I think he's firmly in the "below average hitter" category
About the “average-to-above-average” fielding. So we know TLR liked to put him in late, and I never saw him screw anything up, but what metrics are there that suggest he’s an above average fielder?
UZR has him as pretty average (career -1.1 at 3B in 700+ innings), but we don’t have enough data on UZR to really make a call there.
His OOZ (out of zone) is 24, which seems to be pretty middle of the pack as well.
I guess this is where scouting comes in, but I guess I’m not sold on him being a “plus” glove.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
I don't know how something is "basically meaningless"
Either something is meaningless or it isn’t.
Also, that’s why I couched everything with “don’t have enough data to really make a call” and “seems to be middle of the pack.” I’m asking what other things we might have to indicate he’s an above-average fielder. If it’s TLR’s gut, then so be it.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
basically meaningless, in this case
means that it is real data, and provides some real information, but you have to regress it so far to the mean to get an objective view of it that for the purposes of this kind of discussion, it has almost no meaning.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
I guess I had an issue with the phrase
Like when someone says “very unique”.
I’m not falling in love with the numbers here. I’m acknowledging that they have “almost no meaning”, but it’s not unfair to say they may provide some indication that Descalso is not Ken Boyer.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
Still confused by this.
The Rawlings Gold Glove Award, usually referred to as the Gold Glove, is the award given annually to the Major League Baseball players judged to have exhibited superior individual fielding performances at each fielding position in both the National League (NL) and the American League (AL), as voted by the managers and coaches in each league.
Ah, right. Carry on.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
well, i won't, because i was too vague there
but i guess i’m really asking is do you see him as a person who is going to continue to get 300 AB a year? i’m just interested in his improvement potential, really. i think in an ideal situation, you would rather not plug Descalso of this year into a team in the future for 325 at bats or whatever he got this year- we did that because of injury. however, a little more improvement in his bat, and i think he becomes a legitimately valuable super sub.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
I'm genuinely intrigued by him as the bigger side of a platoon at 2nd
don’t know if the bat holds up, but pretty sure the glove does
OT: Here was my facebook status on Feb 1. I'm sure I stole it from someone here.
St Louis had historic winter storms in 1982 and 2006. Both years, the Cardinals went on to win the World Series.
I’m pretty certain the cards are gonna win the World Series this year. BRING ON THE THUNDERSNOW!
I’m praying for a terrible winter.
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
I remember that
bring on the snow! (as long as it stays north of the Missouri/Arkansas border)
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 1, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
snowpacalypse!
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 1, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Eckstein on fox sports...
His view is that Oquendo is a lock (but they will still go thru the motions of interviewing others) and that Pujols has committed to Oq that if he is the new manager, Pujols stays (although I think he stays anyway).
by RedAllOver on Nov 1, 2011 3:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
David Eckstein?
What the hell does he know?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Nov 1, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
by the by
Does the lead picture of Tony remind anyone else of
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
does any sportsbook do prop bets on GG winners?
i’m really interested to see what DD’s odds would be.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
What kind of condition is the Cardinals farm system considered to be in??
Where is Shelby Miller in regards to readiness?
John Sickels...
had very good things to say, “You’ve got to love this system…”
by mynameistyler on Nov 1, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
loaded with top end prospects
and a lot of role players.
BRAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSS
by OurSaviorAaronMiles on Nov 1, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
MLBTR Arb projections
Ryan Theriot Cardinals SS 3 $3.9 Skip Schumaker Cardinals 2B 3 $3.1 Kyle McClellan Cardinals SP/RP 2 $2.7 Jason Motte Cardinals RP 1 $1.7
#HappySeason
My guess
is that they keep McClellan. That number of 2.7M doesn’t look appealing, but he is SP-injury insurance
Me thinks Dotel is a better bullpen option than KMac at that price
and Lynn and Rzep provide rotation depth
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 1, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
So is Brandon Dickson or Shelby Miller or Lance Lynn
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
honestly hard to tell right now
The new manager may love guys like Theriot, Skip, and McClellan.
Grit != flat out sucking.
Since when is the manager in charge of the roster?!
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Nov 1, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
good point.
He’s not. But it’s hard to envision Mo setting the roster before a manager is hired. He’ll want to at least have an idea on the type of players his managers likes to play.
Grit != flat out sucking.
The next manager isn't going to have the same pull that Tony had.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Good lord Arb is a ripoff
Its ok though, I wanted Skipperdoodle, Riot and KMac gone and Motte kept anyway. This just reaffirms
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 6:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That sure was a heck of a Harry Potter thread up there. Important HP note:
Wizard People, Dear Reader is the best Harry Potter thing there has ever been. I’m telling you… go watch this.
oh man is that the truth
that may still hold the record for making me absolutely lose my shit laughing at something
I am a beautiful animal! I am a destroyer of worlds! I...am Harry Fucking Potter!
man, I could probably quote a pretty significant portion of that thing, and I haven’t seen it in years. Funny stuff.
At one point I made a copy of WPDR so that I didn't have to sync it up anymore
Wish I knew where I put it…
Still not a werewolf.
I'm pretty sure I have one that a college roommate downloaded on some hard drive somewhere
problem is, I’ll almost certainly never find it.
Wow, watching it right now.
Unbelievably incredible. So funny, that eating while watching it is a serious choking hazard.
This was done inadvertantly by my kid while attacking me for eating her candy.
Didn’t know she was catching on.
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
Clever girl
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
by Aranathor on Nov 1, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How did the Cards' hitting prospects do this year?
Cox, Wong, Other Penis-named players?
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
what do you need that for, Dude?
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
Fun fact: MLS attendance trumps both the NBA's and NHL's
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
And we're 10th in the world among soccer leagues
EPL is #1, Bundesliga #2, etc.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
That's good news for them,
but has something to do with the seating capacity of the venues as well.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of MLS plays in soccer-specific stadiums now. LIvestrong only seats 18,500
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Huh. I just assumed they'd have larger capacities.
Carry on.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
MLS is strongly boosted up by Seattle, though, who plays at Qwest (or whatever it's called now)
They average like 38,500, which is fucking unbelievable. Incredible fans up there
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Upon doing some research, it appears that Vancouver and Portland also contribute significantly.
They should really move the Rays to Portland.
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
and rename them.
the portland bohemians sounds awesome.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Can their mascot saw logs like the Portland team's mascot?
"...Or we could make L.A.N.C.E. into a recursive acronym, like, 'Lance: Adam Needs Cartilage from your Elbow." -- Quote by our very own DanUpBaby
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 1, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow.
Cards average this season: 38,197.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
well, their other teams suck
seattle sports fans have to go somewhere
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 1, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
as an aside,
I wish that one of the Seattle teams would rename themselves the “Seattle Grunge”. I don’t even care what sport. They could have flannel-coloured uniforms and it would be awesome for them to play Pearl Jam’s “Alive” during late rallies.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Their basketball tean was stolen and they have the Seahawks and the Mariners.
I’d be a soccer fan too.
Beware: Velociraptors may be present.
and you'd be right
percentage attendance at NBA and NHL games tends to be nearer capacity than attendance at soccer
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that assertion actually supported?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
No I know
But I don’t see any factual evidence of that assertion
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
a little digging
The average MLS stadium holds ~21.5k people (link)
The average NBA stadium is ~19k (90% capacity = 17k, link)
Given that the average attendances are within a couple hundred, the assertion seems to be based in fact.
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Perfect, thanks
I wonder what it’d look like if you took out DC United and the Houston Dynamo, though. Houston’s moving to a soccer-specific stadium next year, so they won’t have to play in 32,000 seat shitty Robertson, and DC plays at RFK, which holds 46,000. Those unfairly bias the study in favor of NBA, yeah?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Took my nephews to a Dynamo's game this year
agree the stadium was shit; didn’t realize it was that big. The concession stands managed to run out of virtually everything immediately before the kids asked for something, but no matter.
The game itself was great. Seattle had a strong contingent at the game as well as good support from Houston, and there was a fair amount of back and forth between the fans. Happily, the profanity and animosity were light enough so as to not make for anything too awkward when the kids repeated everything they heard to their parents later that night.
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Houston's always had a pretty strong MLS atmosphere
Hopefully the new stadium does as much for them as it has for us. But seriously Houston Dynamo is a terrible name
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
this
no way MLS beats average NHL attendance..
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
wow
i eat my words, methinks. impressive!
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
still a little deceiving...
pretty safe bet that if the MLS teams played as many home games a season as NHL teams, those numbers would decrease enough to make up the difference.
also if there were as many MLS teams as there are NHL/NBA teams
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see why the number of teams would be relevant
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
because you put teams where people go to see them
take the 10 least successful franchises out of the NHL or NBA.
I’m not knocking MLS, just saying that the stats can be misleading.
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If you expand smartly, it's irrelevant.
Expanding to Montreal will be a good decision. Expanding to, say, Miami, would not be.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Why not Miami?
They have an enormous latino population. Seems like a no-brainer.
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
Yeah and they'll love baseball too!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
True - however, they've always played in crappy, open-air stadiums.
I guess we’ll have to see how the Marlins do in their new place.
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
with this as motivation they should do pretty well
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 1, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
FABULOUS!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
maybe because the MLS is better optimized to the largest markets / best soccer cities?
NBA is dragged down by Sacramento, Memphis, New Orleans, etc
MLS is dragged down by New England, Dallas, Chicago, etc.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
which would seem to support that if the MLS isnt doing well in the biggest markets,
adding another 10 teams would prove dilutive to those attendance figures
Not any more, I know that.
It’s just a weird dynamic right now. The sport is struggling in Dallas, Boston, and Chicago and thriving in Kansas City, Portland, Salt Lake, and those cities.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
...Charlotte, Minnesota,
Simmons has this one right: how there isn’t a 2nd NBA team in Chicago is mind boggling. They are in terrible locations.
Oh and ticket prices. NBA average is $48, NHL $57, MLS less than $30*. The MLS isn’t a hotter ticket than any of the big 4.
*as of 2008 it was $22, I doubt they’ve jumped it 30%
Not afraid to nitpick
more..total attendance in last completed season
MLB: 74.4 mil
NBA: 21.3 mil
NHL: 20.9 mil
NFL: 17.0 mil
MLS: 5.5 mil
I think ignoring the variables of game scarcity and ticket price make the article a little disingenuous. Given the same number of games and ticket price, MLS gets trounced. But surprising nonetheless – ran across more Red Bulls season ticket holders this year than I thought I would in a lifetime
We have fewer teams as well
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Which plays into the league's favor for this comparison
Put a team in Charlotte and see how well it sells. The NBA has completely mismanaged the cities they are in and the “average attendance” has suffered.
The MLS is playing half as many games, in cities that are either enormous or for whatever reason love soccer, at a price that’s half that of the NBA/NHL…..it’s an apples to footballs comparison.
Not afraid to nitpick
I mean, yeah
The league started in 1996. But it’s come a long way quickly, and it’s definitely moving in the right direction. They’ve expanded very intelligently and there’s no reason why it won’t continue to grow
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
trollface.jpg
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Have you seen the new SBN 404 screen?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
...No?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Got it this morning
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Do you think that growth is sustainable as a mid-tier league for casual fans?
To me it would seem that as interest in soccer starts appealing more broadly to americans, the EPL or other top european leagues have the most to gain. I mean, outside of hardcore fans with a team in their city, who should care about devoting time to an inferior league? This is America.
Or is it that fans have a favorite team in both leagues? And the MLS will make big moves up the food chain over a number of years?
particularly given the hyper-locality of their appeal
Obviously there are plenty of exceptions, but many of the rabid college fanbases are in areas that aren’t otherwise covered by professional sports. Might be consistent with MLS’s successes in smaller but less saturated markets.
by brackenthebox on Nov 1, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of good questions in here
First, I think that the quality of the league is improving by leaps and bounds. If you read enough about the league, you start to pick up quotes from Euro transplants who almost always say that they’re surprised by the quality in the league. Yes, it’s not as technically sound as the high-end leagues, and it does tend to be a physical game here, but they’re almost always pleasantly surprised. Myself, I’ve had conversations with Omar Bravo, who is very pleased where he’s at.
Secondly, yeah, most of the Sporting KC fans I talk to are also fans of Arsenal, or Barcelona, or ManU, or whatever. They might even have a stronger fan tie to the European team, but they love attending a soccer match. I don’t know if you’ve attended an MLS game in a Supporter’s Section, but they’re FUN. Constant chanting, spontaneous yelling at the opposing sections, all of that.
Finally, yeah, I think we’ll eventually grow into a 28 team league with attendance numbers comparable to the NBA and NHL. Like I said, it’s an incredibly new league in a sport relatively new to the country.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
LOL RED BULLS
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
Dude
if you keep working in MLS you HAVE to come to England to see some Premiership action.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
I will!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
damn right you will
and then you will bear witness to the majesty that is stadiums without jumbotronic mega screens with fans screaming obscenities at the players in unison!
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
Since when...
…do fans in the states scream obscenities in unison, much less on the jumbotron?
Boog would have made that play.
i think he meant
1. without jumbotronic mega screens
2. WITH fans screaming obscenities at players in unison
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
i would prefer to understand this with circles. drawn in Paint.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Any college basketball game when a bad call is made.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
kind of hard not to beat the NBA since they aren't playing any games right now
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
2011 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!
I didn't read the Sunday threads,
but was the story about Berk and Albert told by Al during the parade discussed?
In case you didn’t watch/catch it, Al said that in the post-game, locker-room celebration, Berk came up behind Albert, gave him a big bearhug and told him “You’ve got to come back, just imagine us next year with Waino back pitching…”
by ArkansasTravs on Nov 1, 2011 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
(I made this one using a website. I can make them myself with much higher quality, but I have to go to school in a bit)
Still not a werewolf.
Thanks so much. Now I need that flexible LCD screen and the right teddy bear,
and I’ll my daughter will be set.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
BERKHUG
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. - Joe Posnanski
It is October in St. Louis, and there is baseball to be played. - Red Baron
We still doing TLR pics?
Why has nobody brought this one up since yesterday?
Farewell, our dear rabbit leader.
by hr on Nov 1, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Um
WTF is this? Who’s the dead girl, who’s the sad girl, who’s the attractive girl pleasing, why is Tiny a bunny/wizard? Seriously, WTF is on my screen right now?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 6:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I corrected a and reposted but Tiny = Tony
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 6:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Um
WTF is this? Who’s the dead girl, who’s the sad girl, who’s the attractive girl pleasing, why is Tony a bunny/wizard? Seriously, WTF is on my screen right now?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 6:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Corrected and reposted this too
But hey, attractive girl pleasing, talk about a sweet typo
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 6:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Um
WTF is this? Who’s the dead girl, who’s the sad girl, who’s the attractive girl pleading, why is Tony a bunny/wizard? Seriously, WTF is on my screen right now?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 6:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's the Eyes Wide Shut Easter party.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
This guy was pretty accurate.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/team-preview-st-louis-cardinals/
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Nov 1, 2011 4:25 PM EDT reply actions
So I just read the article about Eckstein.
Did he just make this up? There was no, “I’ve talked to Albert and he said….” Just Albert would stay if Oquendo is manager. From the way I see it, it’s Eckstein’s opinion, and the media is running with it as the end all be all.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Where is the article?
Older than any three of you.
by Remember Kenny B on Nov 1, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
It was linked on MLBTR last night, and then on CNNSI rumors box earlier today.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
sorry, I've been having browser crash issues.
Originally posted here, and then updated here.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Clear your cache. That may help with your browser issues.
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Nov 1, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
do it daily.
This machine has had a bug ever since I’ve gotten it.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
pretty much
I also assume Eck meant, given a reasonable offer that isn’t just blown away by another team.
Sometimes common sense isn’t common.
Grit != flat out sucking.
FESPN talking-head shows are picking it up.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Great fanpost by KennyWang on 2012 roster.
He fits Pujols in at 26 Mil on a total budget of about 119 Mil. Last years budget was about 109 Mil. Check it out.
Beer and Baseball. Baseball and Beer. It's not hard to reevaluate your priorities when you only have two.
by PugetSoundCardsAddict on Nov 1, 2011 4:37 PM EDT reply actions
Heh. Wang.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!' -- Whittier
Twitter
sbn just killed all my highlights.
I have cotton candy.
what’s new with you?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
awards watching twitter
http://twitter.com/officialBBWAA
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
hmmm.
Derek Holland: ‘I definitely matured’
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
dude still needs to work on his beard skills
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
remember, no personal items to sign!
The Cardinals third baseman crowned Most Valuable Player of the 2011 World Series Champs is making a stop at Macy’s on Wednesday at 6 p.m.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
mwahahaha!
hang on, I thought that was in the paste
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
My mother is going.
She better be camping out tonight.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
2 things:
You all owe me. I watched about 2 minutes of Around the Horn since I saw a Cardinals topic across the scroll. I need to go scour myself now, but I got two tidbits:
1. VEP and Bill Plaschke agree about letting Albert pick our next manager. Great minds think alike, ya’all.
2. Bob Ryan thinks Francona would absolutely, definitely take the StL job if offered. Probably a little bit of genuine insight there.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
I actually kinda like Around the Horn.
They don’t seem to know much about baseball, but it’s kind of a funny show. And I know so very little about non-baseball sports that, to me, they still sound like they know what they’re talking about (even though I strongly suspect that they do not).
the show has a joystick.
despite myself, I dig it.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
atari kid
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I almost never watch it, but it can be entertaining. Also, I'll admit to a minor Woody Paige affection.
RE-SIGN ALBERT PUJOLS!
by a fink on Nov 1, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really, it has Bill Plasche, like on tv, as in to watch you have to listen to him
Seriously any show where Jackie McMullan is the ground shaking voice of resin should hurt your head. I’m not sure how Skip Bayless ad Michael Wilbon aren’t on that show but that’s the only way it could get any worse. Which sucks because there’s nothing on in the afternoon and I actually think Tony Reali seems fun
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 6:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I've yet to see any resin on that show.
But yea, it’s mostly a Reali thing. Though I do think Wilbon is funny, so we’ll have to part ways there.
one time i walked behind cowlishaw while he was taping the show
you could almost sort of see me on tv!
damnit
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 1, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I just got offered a new job!
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
bollocks
So
are you gonna bat Lego or Berk clean-up?
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
by Aranathor on Nov 1, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and are you gonna bat the pitcher 8th?
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
congrats dude!
love hearing about people getting jobs in this current world- god knows i need one
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Attaboy, Matty
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
There is hope!
Congratulations!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Future Mrs. David Freese ♥
St. Louis Cardinals 2011 World Series Champions
supposedly from the Post-Dispatch, but i'll put it up to wire services
A $250 wager on the Cardinals to win the NL at 500-1 paid $125,000. Another $250 wager on the Cardinals to win the World Series at 999-1 had a potential payout of $249,750. A photo of the betting tickets can be found on the Internet.
“It’s authentic,” MGM Resorts sports book director Jay Rood said. “We might have been a little high. But if you put pen down to paper and figured out the 20 to 25 things that had to happen for the Cardinals to get where they are now, it might have been 10,000-1. The perfect storm came together.”
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
my ex-gf put a bet down on the Cards when she was in Vegas over Labor Day
i forget what the odds and the bet were (I was drunk when she told me), she won $10K
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 1, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Tony
I’ll miss the LaRussa drama, innovation and risk taking. Thank God Duncan is staying for at least another year.
New York sports talk radio is amazing
the callers are so great. guy is on the line right now recommending the Yankees call up Mozeliak and convince him to do a sign and trade, Pujols for Teixeira, and send the Cards like 100 million to cover most of Teixeira’s contract.
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
mostly for free, yep
Here’s to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Those new yorkers are some canny business people.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Nov 1, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously?
Pass on free Texiera?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Nov 1, 2011 6:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you shouldve heard Boston sports fans calling into their stations after game 162
very entertaining
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Nov 1, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
tell me the screaming/crying ratio
What? I can't hear you over ALL THE CHAMPAGNE BEING POURED IN MY EARS.
I don't think I'm going to miss TLR all that much....
depending on who’s next.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
That's always the thing isn't it?
I won’t miss that guy (unless his replacement is even worse).
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess we're going to find out if one guy in particular is.
We just don’t know who that guy is yet.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess Oquendo will never get to manage.
I feel bad for Oquendo, really. We’ve talked about him before as far as managing. He’s applied for managerial jobs before and was passed over. I don’t know what the reasons were. Maybe it was no managerial experience, maybe the club had somebody else in mind already, who knows.
But you have to think that he’d like to manage the Cardinals. And I have to think that he deserves a chance.
I have no idea weather or not he’d make a good manager, but I’d like to see him get his day. In this organization I think he’s earned consideration.
Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983
by Dave Pendleton on Nov 2, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Overflow Thread
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
So have you all already commented on the Costas Interview?
My thought is for folks who have not actually routinely listed to Tony speak they will make a huge deal of his delivery. Evasive, egomaniac, drunk, etc. I for one thoroughly enjoyed it
11 in '11
Live blogged in the overflow.
#HappySeason
by The Continental on Nov 1, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
And it was awesome by the way
But how where you hear and there simultaneously. You’re everywhere!…I’m kidding. great job TC
11 in '11
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 2, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
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