swamp gassing
by lboros on Oct 4, 2011 11:11 AM EDT
Email
Printsurprise.
danup invited me to drop by and offer an emeritus reflection or two, so here i am -- alas, with few worthy reflections to offer. like just about everybody else, i wrote this team off in mid to late august -- not enough defense, not enough pitching, not enough speed, distressing habit of playing down to the level of the competition. in one of the p-d water cooler segments i likened them to the 1980 cardinals, another talent-rich club whose league-leading offense was undermined by deficiencies in just about every other aspect of the game. that club finished 74-88 and never stood more than a game over .500. it was not intended to be a flattering comparison.
having made up my mind about the cards -- they were bums -- i’ve had a hard time getting excited about them again. i watched the great comeback mostly from afar, missing most games entirely and tuning in to the rest only for the late innings. i scoffed at the comparisons to 1964; finishing 4th in a 16-team league is a far cry from finishing 1st in a 10-team league. i couldn’t (and still can’t) quite get over the feeling that atlanta lost the race, more than our side won it; had the braves merely played .400 ball over the last month (12-18), they’d be getting ready to host the brewers for games 3 and 4 and we’d all be lamenting the wins given away in the final week to the mets and the astros -- along with all those other wins the cards gave away all season long. i anticipated that type of sad outcome down to the very last day of the season; a team only gets so many opportunities, i reasoned, and the cards had blown their quota and then some. even after the champagne began to flow, i didn’t completely feel the love. they’d found a way to survive, but i still didn’t view them as completely redeemed.
i admit to all of this without apology or regret; blast me in the comments all you want. there it is.
as i write this confession, my thoughts drift back to the summer of swamp gas — 2005, when the extinct species of lefthander known as mark mulder still inhabited the #2 slot of a major league rotation. danup (then blogging at Get Up Baby) coined the nickname "swamp gas" that year in honor of mulder’s rancid assortment of pitches, which comprised an 86 mph sinker, an 80 mph changeup, and a looping eephus-like curveball that nobody ever swung at (on account of laughing so hard). we didn’t realize at the time that mulder was pitching with a half-raveled labrum; we only knew he was serving up slop on a platter. and getting away with it. in july and august of that year, a span of 10 starts, swamp gas struck out just 25 men in 67.1 innings (3.3 k/9) and had more walks (26) than whiffs (25). next to him, tom glavine looked like vida blue. yet somehow mulder managed a 6-1 record in those 10 starts with a 2.89 era; the team went 9-1.
his success was jarring; mulder didn’t seem to deserve it. he only had one repeatable skill -- he could throw pitch after pitch to a 3-inch sliver at the bottom of the strike zone -- but he couldn’t change speeds, couldn’t throw the ball past anyone, couldn’t move the ball around the strike zone. his foundation was way too flimsy to support the results mulder was getting. with each victory, the universe seemed a less orderly place. after one of these impossibly effective outings, danup had to be snapped out of a bewildered stupor by his mom, who uttered the immortal mantra "just go with it." don’t bother trying to understand or explain; some things simply are.
it has taken me 164 games, but i’m finally approaching the "just go with it" zen state as regards the 2011 st louis swamp gassers. maybe it was the game 2 win in the nlds that finally enlightened me, inflated as it was with so much stale air. they stunk it up before the game even started, viz the ill-advised decision to start carpenter on short rest -- the latest in a long string of object lessons in postseason rotation management that skipper la russa refuses, after all these years, to heed. once they started playing, the cardinals twice failed to score guys who reached third base with nobody out, lost another baserunner on a play at the plate, and failed to turn a routine dp in the 8th inning, enabling ryan howard to bat as the go-ahead run. this type of nonsense cost them wins all summer against mediocre (and worse) teams; a mere week ago they dropped such a game 5-4 to houston that just about snuffed out their last chance. but then, they also won a lot of games like that down the stretch, overcoming stranded baserunners and misplayed two-hoppers and walked-in runs and rally-killing GIDPs. remember this beaut against the phillies a little more than a fortnight ago? st louis left 15 men on base, failed to get a crucial run home from 3d base with one out in the 7th, and allowed the tying run to score in the 9th inning on a dropped flyball that would and should have been the 27th out. at nearly any point during the summer, that game woulda been an L. they came back to win it 4-2.
they’ve been getting away with this crap for over a month now. slop on a platter. they keep serving it up and getting results they have no right to expect. laws of the universe are being broken, disorder is encroaching, bewilderment swirls, and finally -- at long last -- i’m getting used to it. like mulder v2005, they have one repeatable skill -- they can swing the bats -- and another asset that plays well in october: power arms in the bullpen. somehow they’ve been able to make those stand up no matter how ragged and deficient they may be nearly every other respect. i’m starting to forgive them for that. i’m waking up and smelling the swamp gas. i’m breathing in that awful, glorious stink and not choking. can’t explain it. not trying to. just going with it.
game thread in a few hours . . . .
804 comments
|
9 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This is the way I feel too
I’ve been doing my best to fulfill the “just go with it” mantra, but I find myself incredibly nervous during every game.
I was with you until the champagne started flowing.
After that I couldn’t stay mad / indifferent any longer. My boys were going to the postseason.
I still don’t love the wild card, but I’m not going to think much about that right now.
#FireTLR
by The Continental on Oct 4, 2011 11:16 AM EDT reply actions
+1
As soon as the champagne flowed, I knew they had a chance. They have enough talent to contend in a short series. Anything can happen in a short series, especially for a team that can hit the long ball and has power arms in the bullpen. A 7 game series might be another matter though. Our starting pitching likely gets exposed in a long series. But I’d be happy just to see us get past the Philies. Who would have thunk on Aug 10th that the Cards play in the NDLS? The absurdity of it all is exhilarating.
I might suggest that our starting pitching was exposed in the first two games of this series.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
might I suggest that Lohse is our third starter
and carpenter was on three days rest. We don’t have the best rotation, or second best rotation in the post season. But I think we have the best closer. And I know we have the best offense.
Grit != flat out sucking.
won't be in the playoffs anymore
after Game 4
best closer?!
we have the second best closer in the NL. maybe. and there’s two in the AL better than the best one in the NL.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
no i know you were only thinking postseason.
regardless, axford is probably the best closer in the NL this october.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Ryan Madson has been excellent, too.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah but
that’s the Phillies achilles heel. They can’t get to Madson to let him pitch. Their bullpen is truly attrocious.
And the Cards are doing a pretty good job of taking advantage of that.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
The rotation has been exposed.
Our third starter was going to start in this series so I don’t think that explains away the shelling he took in Game 1. Starting Carpenter on short rest exposed him and the rotation. I think this is beyond question. Luckily the club’s strengths—which no one is disputing—of hitting and relief pitching bailed out the exposed Carpenter on Sunday night. I’m not sure why you are suggesting that the rotation has not been exposed when our starters have given up 10 runs (9 earned) in just 8.1 IP so far this series.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
maybe not the right place to start this discussion BUT...
i think not starting edwin jackson in game 1 was silly.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
If they were going to start anyway
Lohse was as good of a decision as any for game 1 and Ejax for game 2. Either way. I understand the reasoning for Carp in 2 though, even if I don’t like it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
It worked though
I mean, not exactly how they drew it up, but the Cards won Carp’s Game 2 start, and he’ll be available for Game 5 if needed, or ready for Game 1 of the NLCS.
It’s like pretty much everything else with this team: now that it happened, just go with it!
The Cardinals win the Wild Card!
it's like the the old saying
’i’d rather be lucky than good, any day of the week’
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
The Cards dodged a bullet in Game 2.
The decision to start Carp on three days’ rest was a poor one, regardless of the eventual outcome of Game 2. I think Jackson or Garcia on normal rest were very likely to pitch better than Carp on short rest. Yes, Carp is now lined up to start a Game 5, if there is one, but I think I’d rather be returning to St. Louis with Carp & Garcia slated to start and fully rested.
That being said, I’m with you. Tied 1-1 with Garcia starting is a nice place to be for the Cards. After the improbable Wild Card run, I feel like we’re playing with house money.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
house money
That’s been my feeling about it since this run started.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. It seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great. - Joe Posnanski
it's just fine......as long as you don't lose it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
if ejax starts game 1 we might be looking at a 2-0 lead right now.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
and if Lohse hadn't served up so many change-ups
we might be in the same position. If Lee hadn’t imploded we might be down 2 games. Bad jackson could have showed up and we’d be in the same position. As long as we don’t start Jaime in Philly or Westy at all, the other three scenarios are a crap-shoot.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but edwin jackson's a better pitcher. period.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
that's beside the point.
you pitch your best pitchers first.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
and had jackson pitched first and lost
you’d be throwing up your hands about the fact that tony started a flyball pitcher in philly
i think “starting your best pitchers first” is a tradition that isn’t really based in anything. if they’re going to pitch anyway, it doesn’t matter what order they pitch in
not really true.
also, because in order to get to those later games, you have to win a few.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
what
your argument is that the fact that it doesn’t matter what order they pitch because the wins count the same is beside the point because they didn’t pitch in the right order?
is that what you’re saying to me
but yeah
you’re right that if we lose the first three, jackson doesn’t get to pitch. but if none of carp, jaime or garcia were good enough for us to win, we were screwed anyway, because they all have to pitch anyway and that’s why it doesn’t matter what order they pitch in
n/s
my argument is that you pitch the guy that gives you the best chance to win when he is available. jackson was available on saturday and should have pitched.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
my argument is that it doesn't make any difference
he’s pitching tomorrow. if there’s any argument that order matters, it’s because of matchups and park effects, in which case jackson is in a better position to succeed tomorrow than he was on saturday
do you argue that jackson gave us the best chance on saturday?
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
probably garcia
i argue that it doesn’t matter because all of those pitchers are pitching anyway unless we’re sweeping or getting swept
then you start garcia...
my argument is you pitch the pitcher who gives you the best chance to win for every game, no matter what order. kyle lohse did not give us the best chance to win on saturday.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
the argument still doesn't make sense
garcia is pitching tonight. garcia was guaranteed to pitch in this series. if you pitch garcia in game 1, you increase your win probability in game 1 and reduce it in game 3. there is no net effect
except that you might have won game 1...
and been up 2-0.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
In a vaccuum, yes.
But pitching up 2-0 has a distinctively different feel than pitching 0-0 and perhaps gives that immeasurable advantage.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
or maybe you get lazy and think its in the bag
and come out flat. See how easy these hindsight narratives are?
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
I was just playing devil's advocate.
I agree with you.;
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, I didn't mean to put a semi colon there.
Don’t think I was “winking” please.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
hey, you wanna maybe swing by my place later tonight, babe?
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 4, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
Do you have pie?
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 4, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
oh yeah, sorry if that sounded flippant...
i really think its just as easy to make the case either way
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
yeah
it feels better that period between being 2-0 and 1-1. i’m not convinced that it gives any kind of competitive advantage
there are huge advantages to being up 2-0
also, why do you think aces pitch game 1?
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Who did it in the AL?
Yankees against Oakland, right?
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't recall
Jayson Stark quoted it this morning on Mike and Mike. I thought there were 4 teams who have done it.
Well not exactly the same stat
But here is a quote from his column:
In the 48 division series since baseball adapted the current 2-2-1 format in 1999, 18 teams have lost the first two games of an LDS series on the road. Just two of those 18 — the 2003 Red Sox and 1999 Red Sox — recharged to win the series. That’s 11 percent.
But eight teams have followed the Cardinals’ script — by winning Game 2 on the road after losing Game 1. And five of those teams went on to win the series. That’s 62.5 percent.
this is wrong.
the yankees did it in 2001. i know that for a fact
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
...
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
cant be wrong
it’s in block quotes.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
It's not wrong
It says “have lost the first two games of an LDS series on the road”. The Yanks lost the first two at home.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
ahhhhhhh
reading comprehension fail
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
Didn't the Yanks lose the first two at home though?
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
it is what it is.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
that's also because
if your team is down 0-2, it is likely the worse team (and the ace got beaten)
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
"worse team"?
5 game series = big equalizer
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
well if you are on the road
for the first two games, your 162 game record is worse
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
i guess another way to put it..
how many of those teams that got into the 0-2 hole were clearly inferior teams?
its not just the 0-2 hole that kills you, its also fact that your team probably isnt better
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
what are the advantages
when you end up 2-1 either way?
i think aces pitch game 1 because it’s traditional. your logic is popular
BECAUSE IT GIVES YOU THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN
in any given game, why would you not give your team the best chance to win?
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
all you're doing
is trading a greater win expectancy in one game than the other
your overall win expectancy for the three games is the same
i agree
if you’re saying that it’s not true in the postseason, it’s not clear and i would ask you to explain why
Yeah, you'd have to compare teams that won the first two games and lost the third
to teams that lost the first game and won the next two.
I don’t think there is any statistical reasoning behind one choice or the other, so your going to have to argue based on phantom intangibles.
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
even if it comes down to simple "phantom intangibles"
there’s not denying that they exist, especially in a postseason series.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
but that doesn't mean the
“intangibles” are biased towards one strategy or the other. if they were, they would be tangible because we could measure that
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
yeah, this, we don't know how they swing
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
I would agree with PJ here
why, you might as well speculate that being down 0-2 puts the kind of pressure on a pitcher that gives a pitcher a do-or-die attitude and brings out the best in him.
Ideally, it would have been best if the schedule worked out that we pitched Carp first. It didn’t. After that, eh. Not much difference. If you want to factor in Philly’s park dimensions and avoid starting a pitcher that has a high FB rate, fine. But other than there I don’t think there’s much difference.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
You should start them first
So you can go back to them in games 4 and five
by Cheeseballs on Oct 4, 2011 12:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
jackson would be on three days rest for game 4.
no thank you.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm against pitching any of them on short rest
so your game 4 argument doesn’t resonate with me. basically you’ve made an argument that carpenter should pitch one of the first 2 games so he can pitch twice. i’ll agree
You forgot to say:
“I’m Cheeseballs”
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
best *available* pitcher.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
until he was duncaned!
(actually, i think he would have done fine in Cleveland had he stayed healthy.)
Grit != flat out sucking.
Jackson is a flyball
pitcher and Lohse a groundball guy. That had to be the thinking, i.e., put Jackson in the park he has the best chance to succeed in. With Lohse, just hope he can hold the Philies in the ballpark. LaManager inexplicably went a few batter too long with Lohse and Howard made us pay.
What the hell did I start here?
Lohse just fell in love with his change-up was what happened there. He almost would’ve been better off to have just walked Howard. I hate IBBing but in that instance, it made more sense than chancing serving up a meatball like that last CH was. (Hindsight and all that…..) And it’s not like the bullpen cleaned house after that. It happened and we can’t undo it. Just hope we don’t have that happen again.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
And yes, I agree
that I wouldn’t want a flyball pitcher in that park. But I also wouldn’t want to pitch Carp on 3 days if avoidable.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
because it's a 8.1 inning sample size
Did we expose Hallday and Lee by hanging 8 runs on them in 13 I.P? The Phillie starters have a combined 5.54 ERA this series.
Grit != flat out sucking.
The size of the sample does not change what happened. That's what we're discussing.
We aren’t projecting here or even saying that the results of the first two games were indicative of any of the starter’s true talent level. Do you disagree with the belief that the Cardinals had two disastrous starts in games 1 and 2?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
ARE YOU READY FOR SOME BASEBALL!
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
by peppermartin on Oct 4, 2011 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
flagged for politics
I smacked Rickey right in the face when he told me this idea.
by Hootie Who on Oct 4, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
true - but I was able to get him at a great discount
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
by peppermartin on Oct 4, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
There have been a lot of posts / comments from others who feel the same way.
It’s been jarring for many folks, because while the Cards found a way to win, the way they did it… well, it didn’t feel like good Cardinals-style baseball. If I had a horrible confession to make, in late August, when the Cards were seemingly out of every race, my opinion towards the team consisted of two main thoughts: 1) Being angry at the front office for not going all-in during the last of Pujols’ prime years, with craptastic signings like Ryan Theriot, and 2) Hoping a bad season would put huge pressure on the FO to look back at their trade / FA habits.
But they’re in the playoffs now and even if I don’t like the way the team is built, I’ll take it for what it is and enjoy some October baseball. The “slop on a plate” thing is so true, though. When Arthur Rhodes came in to pitch to Ryan Howard in the 8th inning of game 2 with a runner on first, and he threw that lifeless 87mph fastball right down the middle of the plate for pitch 1, I about had a heart attack. Howard had thankfully decided it was written in stone that he would not swing at pitch 1, because Rhodes had no reason to get away with that.
But he did, and that means the Cardinals season is extended by at least one game, I will take it. :)
Rams, Cardinals, Bulls. Life is good.
The 3 pitch SO of Howard
by Rhodes has to be one of the most unlikely events that I could have imagined.
by ArkansasTravs on Oct 4, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
Whenever I see Ryan Howard I just think “strike him out with a curve ball or something”. So that’s what I was thinking. And then it happened. I don’t actually know what kind of pitch it was though. I’m pretty sure I could pitch left handed and strike out Ryan Howard, and I have maybe half an inch on Tim Kurkjian (LOL IRONIC). His wRC+ against lefties this year is 73. I will write that again so people can see how bad it is. His wRC+ against lefties this year is 73.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
The third pitch was fairly nasty.
So it’s not so much a critique of the entire pitch sequence, just that first pitch.
Rams, Cardinals, Bulls. Life is good.
Yeah, that's true.
I have no idea if Howard is “dangerous” on first pitches or anything. Maybe they have numbers saying he takes first pitches a lot or something? I dunno.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
yea,
but we’re talking ARTHUR RHODES here. Just in my general “we’re DOOOOOOOOMED” mentality when certain relief pitchers have appeared for us this year, a 3 pitch strike out was the very last thing I was expecting.
by ArkansasTravs on Oct 4, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yet another reason why Ryan Howard is horribly overrated.
He can be made virtually useless in late innings with a lefty-lefty matchup.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Or, you know, a lefty starter
Seriously, he should probably be a platoon guy, that’s how bad he is against lefties.
Yeah in the few days after the Rasmus trade I was hoping for a TLR purging catastrophe
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 4, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
best picture of Tony I've ever seen, lb
and I agree completely with your view of the Cards this year – one of my big concerns is that Tony and Mo are being treated as geniuses for the Rasmus trade being the key to the season – what most forget is that Tony and Mo were the architects of the team that needed that sort of trade by installing Theriot at SS, keeping Schu at second, adding Tallet as a LOOGY, initially keeping Augenstein over Salas on the roster, and staying way too long with using Franklin and Batista in the pen – but, in some ways, it reminds me of 2006, when we won the world series only because Izzy went down and other bullpenners were not very effective, forcing Tony to rely on the kids in the pen
The thing is...
Once wainwright went down I expected an .500 team. Then they one 90 games. Really, I should be extremely happy that they blew past my expectations. And just a few tweaks they could have been so much better. A theriot/skip platoon at 2nd. A real short stop playing short. (Ryan, JJ, someone not name theriot). Salas and sanchez making the team right out of the gate after their stellar springs.
You look at the offense, and then look at those tweaks, We should have been challenging the Brewers for the division. But instead we are the wild card. And that’s ok too. We may look at this team and wonder if what they did is real, But I know this ticket I have in my hand for Posteason baseball IS real.
And I’m going to just go with it and enjoy it.
Grit != flat out sucking.
by Evilfrog on Oct 4, 2011 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
One big difference
they have one repeatable skill — they can swing the bats
If you’re only going to have one skill, that’s a pretty good one. Scoring runs isn’t some fringe, marginally-useful, ability like targeting the bottom inch of the strike zone.
Right.
We would have killed for this offense in 2009.
by Houdinimachine on Oct 4, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Our offense is top shelf
And a lot of regular season baggage weighs down our bullpen. Talent wise our bullpen is pretty strong right now. Our starting pitching is competent. I’ll take it!
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Agreed on the bullpen
I agree that the bullpen has seemed much more solid since July. But when the media types talk about the bullpen being shaky, they often use season long stats to back it up ( the blown save percentage, etc.)—if they back it up.
Can anyone find team level relief pitching data that isolates pre/post All Star splits, or splits for Aug and Sept? I didn’t have success at baseball-reference or fangraphs, but maybe I’m doing something wrong.
Yeah the pen is very good, and cheap
I like it.
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 4, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It's amazing that our bullpen gave up so many wins this year
and the main factor in it’s rehabilitation was just getting rid of the dead weight. Ugh, we left a lot of wins on the table by trotting out crappy relievers this season. But you’re right: as th bullpen is composed now, I really like it for the most part.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
it's a situation where WAR doesn't fully encapsulate the effect
Franklin had -1.2 fWAR on the season. A good reliever gets like 1.0 WAR (e.g. Salas this season). That net of 2 “wins” in WAR is more like 3-4 wins in the standings because of the situations in which Franklin accrued that -1.2 fWAR.
Franklin accrued -2.82 WPA in only 27.2 innings.
On a per inning basis (> 20 innings), that’s by far the worst in the majors.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 4, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Busy day for StL today
Playoffs, Peabody opening back up, Obama coming to town, and a convention is in town. If you’re going to the game plan on leaving early since traffic is going to be horrible
bollocks
and fritz is going to lose his mind.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
the correct answer is
‘aubergine’
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
Regardless, I appreciate the warning!
Check out STLToday.com tomorrow for details!
"I kinda like the Wong" -Aranathor
by Alxfritz on Oct 4, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
wilco tonight and playoff baseball tomorrow.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
speaking of Wilco, anybody got opinions on the new album yet?
I really like it, it’s easily the best thing they’ve done since A Ghost Is Born and it’s still growing on me.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
+1000000
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I seriously got super excited when I saw his name.
Then he said
“surprise.”
with no caps and no exclamation point. Extra excitement.
The Cardinals win the Wild Card!
thanks for the appearance, larry.
also, the 2011 team is the only one that has done it for torty. so they have that advantage.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 11:45 AM EDT reply actions
i'll get it if they win the world series.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Ordered mine the day they seemingly showed up.
It’ll probably arrive tomorrow after I’ve left for the game
by LandSickness on Oct 4, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Got my shirt on
and am lucky enough to go to the game, company bought a suite. Right field foul poll. Look for this banner I made.
by comptoncard on Oct 4, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
I didn't even bring a cardinal shirt
because I wasn’t planning on going to the game. Lucky I’m wearing red though.
Grit != flat out sucking.
foul pole
so excited I forgot how to spell
CITY OF COMPTON
Hit me up on Google+
FIRE TONY LA RUSSA
by jd is legend on Oct 4, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
as inane as the memes sound to an outsider--
i can only assume that they do—for whatever reason, they have contributed to my ability to actually be excited for the team. even little old optimistic me was getting pretty frustrated with the cardinals come the end of august, and while i am pretty zen about most things anyway, i can definitely relate to the que sera, sera feeling larry describes.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
agreed
I pretty much accepted that this year was one of those “not to be” during August. I still haven’t fully invested myself in the playoffs, yet. Sunday night drug me a little further in, however. A win today and I’ll probably be fully pulled back in either to jump with joy or cry like a baby after the LDS is over.
by ArkansasTravs on Oct 4, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
also, lboros referencing momup is kind of cool.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I've missed momup
No pictures from the stands, no appearance at the meet’n’greet, no curious stories of danup as a child – [sigh]
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
THE ZOMBIE CARDINALS ARE UNDEAD! LONG LIVE THE MAFIA!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
in terms of excitement
watching the team like a lurching ghastly horror wrenching itself from the muck again and again is entertaining in its own way. now, if the Phillies are in the pickup truck making out, we’re all set.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 4, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Thanks
Nice post. Though to me part of being a basebal fan it is accepting the fact that postseason baseball is a three parts skill and two parts luck concoction. So if I have to endure losing in ’04, ’05, and ’09 when I thought we had the better team – I am certaintly not going to celebrate any less if they find some way to win in ’06 and ’11. Carpe diem – dead poets – because there are cardinal zombies coming after you
Honestly?
I’m not sure the ’09 team was actually better than this team. Sure, we had Wainwright and Carp, but we have Carp and Jaime on this team, and our 3 and 4 starters are better than the ones on the ’09 squad for sure.
Our offense is a hell of a lot better than it was then, and our bullpen is much deeper and has pitchers with stuff that allows them to strike hitters out.
If everyone was healthy (a huge issue for the ‘11 club) we’re far better than the ’09 team, imo, even without Wainwright.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
I had never been as disappointed with
A sports team as I was with the 2009 playoffs. I really thought we had a shot at winning the whole thing. Although the rotation may be a little deeper this year, the 2009 rotation was better by a LONG shot, especially in terms of postseason play.
Carp and Wainwright were arguably the two best pitches in the entire league! Up until the NLDS, they had not lost back to back starts the entire year. I agree that this years bullpen is better and the offense is as well, but the offense was still pretty good in 09. Pujols was better and Holliday was playing out of his mind.
We had the best hitter in baseball and the best pitcher but yet lost two of those three games to Randy Wolf and Vincent Padilla….Also, it was a shame Waino didnt win.the Cy Young. I know Law really screwed him in the voting, but I think had he won 20 games, he probably would have taken it, and McClellan.was to blame for that. I don’t know if anyone remembers, but Wainwright left his last start of the season with a pretty comfortable lead before KMac came in and blew it. 2009 was so devastating.
by mick311 on Oct 4, 2011 12:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes
but you’ll remember that Joe Torre effectively pitched around Pujols that entire series and just dared anyone else on that team to beat us. And they couldn’t do it.
We would LOVE IT if the Phillies would do it to us this year, because our offense is good enough to make them pay for doing so.
Looking at ERA+, we have four above average starters in 2011, compared to three in 2009. Now, Carp and WW were better in ‘09 than Carp and Garcia were this year, but if we’re talking about the playoffs, I’d rather have 2011 Lohse than 2009 Lohse and also rather have Edwin Jackson instead of Piniero or Todd Wellemeyer, because he has the ability to dominate an opposing lineup.
I would say that the 2011 offense would have a better shot at scoring runs against those Dodger pitchers, and that would have made a huge difference in that series.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
So if someone said for this year you could have
Our current rotation or 09s you would take this one? For the playoffs? I can admit the offense and bp is better but 09s rotation was better by a long shot. 09 Carp was much better than this years, and comparing 09 Wainwright to this years Garcia isn’t even close.
by mick311 on Oct 4, 2011 3:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Piniero had a pretty good year in 09 also.
I don’t think this years Lohse is all that much better. Having a solid #4 is an advantage, but if we are talking postseason, 2009s rotation was really fucking good.
by mick311 on Oct 4, 2011 3:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
09 Lohse was significantly inferior to 11 Lohse
09
4.74 ERA 117.2 IP 1.368 WHIP 1.2 HR/9 2.8 BB/9 5.9 K/9 2.14 K/BB
11
3.39 ERA 188.1 IP 1.168 WHIP 0.8 HR/9 2.0 BB/9 5.3 K/9 2.64 K/BB
Not even close.
Westbrook put up a better year than 09 Wellemeyer, so I’d have to say the rotation is close to a wash. You’d have to look at fWAR, I think, to get a better idea of which rotation was really better.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
here it is
2009 18.6
2011 13.1
after going thru it a little bit, the real difference is Wainwright. Waino was worth 5.7 fWAR in 09, and that’s almost exactly the difference.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
Pretty much
and I’d guess that we’ve more than made up for that in terms of offensive WAR and bullpen WAR.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
mostly on offense
offense….
2009 26.4
2011 34.3
Thanks, Lance!
bullpen….
2009 0.4
2011 1.2
the 2011 # is deceptive b/c it includes bad Franklin, Batista, Tallet, bad Miller, etc.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
I think the current bullpen is probably worth more like 2.5 - 3 WAR
over a full season, mostly by giving Franklin/Batista/Miller/Tallet innings to Salas/Dotel/Rzep/Boggs
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
I meant 09 piniero was about as good as 2011
Lohse. I was not saying 09 lohse was better than 2011 lohse. Sorry if that was confusing.
by mick311 on Oct 4, 2011 4:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, I know it has been decided that the starting rotation is the most "important" component when we are talking about predicting playoff success
But I don’t know if I’d say that a stronger top of the rotation outweighs a superior offense and a superior bullpen. The thing about the post season is that, with the weird scheduling, you get more out of the top of your rotation. But you can also get more key bullpen pitchers rest too, right?
Not to mention that offense is literally half the game.
I’m not actually sure that this team, as currently constructed, is not better than the ‘09 team, and I’m not quite sure the ’09 team is a better playoff team either. It was overcoming all the regular season crap that stood in the way that was the problem for the 2011 team.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I guess we will
Another thing about the “top of the rotation” in the playoffs argument is that, when your put more value into fewer players, or more responsibility, or whatever, it increases risk. The ‘09 team was more dependent on Wainwright and Carpenter than the ’11 team is dependent on Carpenter and Garcia (or Carp and Jackson or however you prefer to break it down). In 2009 Wainwright pitched quite well but Carpenter and Piñeiro (who was coming off an awesome season) didn’t. Our offense and bullpen failed to bail us out. A couple nights ago Carpenter was unwisely pushed into a start on short rest and we paid for it. But our offense and bullpen saved the day.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I also think it bears mentioning just how few top of the line starting pitchers there really are
Yes, great pitching beats great hitting, but anything less is quite hittable.
Good pitching will beat good hitting any time, and vice versa. -Bob Veale
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
except Sunday night....
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
It's like the argument about spreading WAR around several players rather than concentrating it in a couple elite players
If we have a few elite players and a bunch of scrubs, a season-ending injury to one of those elite guys can be devastating. If we have a more balanced team with lower peaks but fewer crappy guys, a season ending injury isn’t as bad to deal with, right?
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Or multiple injuries that affect many different guys on that team
The key is just having capable players to fill out the depth of your squad.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Well that's always a possibility too, luck doesn't necessarily work the way we think it should
Our rotation is deeper this year, but with less concentrated awesomeness.
Another thing about the playoffs is the small number of games. A so-so pitcher can have one or two awesome starts (Jeff Weaver, Jeff Suppan, Anthony Reyes, etc.) that can help your team just as much as an elite pitcher’s awesome starts in the playoffs would. The elite pitcher has way more awesome starts during the course of the entire season, and a higher likelihood of having them in the playoffs, but they are no better than the middling guy’s playoff awesomeness. Crap shoot, etc. etc.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I think a lot of this goes back to the D-Backs when they won it with Schilling and Johnson
at the top of their rotation. The thing is, though, is that they had the third best offense in the National League that season and that their bullpen (and a solid start from…Miguel Batista — I had forgetting this and actually hate him even more now) is actually what saved them from dumping the division series to the ’01 Cardinals, who threw Darryl Kile, Matt Morris (twice), Bud Smith, and Woody Williams.
Schilling beat Morris twice in the series, but both games could have gone either way. Morris allowed 2 ER in 15 innings. Schilling allowed 1 ER in 18 innings. Morris lost Game 1 1-0, and the Cardinal bullpen blew two other games in which we were tied or had the lead.
So I think this whole line of thinking around Schilling and Johnson “dominating” those playoffs is a bit of a misrepresentation of what actually happened.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Eh, I can see how that could color certain peoples' perception of it
But I vaguely recall seeing some studies that concluded good, “power” pitchers at the top of the rotation to be the most predictive single component of a team’s playoff chances. It did not conclude this to be the “key” to winning the playoffs or some sort of golden ticket or anything. The larger point confirmed the “crap shoot” idea, I think.
Basically, I agree that the ’09 team had a better top three of the rotation, but that I like the other parts of our current team better.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
The old saw is that "good pitching beats good hitting"
And I think that’s true. But in this day and age, it’s rare that you have guys like ’09 Cliff Lee or ’01 Curt Schilling, who just go out there and shut down other teams for 9 innings every start they make. So you need good bullpen pitchers to back them up.
You also can’t win games 0-0 no matter how good your starter is. You have to score runs, and if you can’t solve Woody Willams or Bud Smith, you might end up losing a series where your top two starters pitch perfectly, only to lose the game in the 8th or 9th inning 1-0 or 2-1.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
damn
I remember that series being hugely frustrating, I’d forgotten there was a reason I hated Schilling before he ever went to Boston.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
I'm more sad, looking back
that I had forgotten how fucking good Matt Morris was in his prime. Damn he was a good starting pitcher.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Morris turned in two excellent NLDS starts in '01,
essentially going pitch-for-pitch with Schilling.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 4, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather have Wainwright and Carpenter
Than Carpenter and Garcia, if that’s what you’re getting at.
But my point is that I’d rather have ’11 Lohse and ’11 Jackson than ’09 Piniero and ’09 Whoever-the-fuck-was-going-to-pitch-game-4.
And I’d much, MUCH rather have this bunch of gas throwers that we have this year, versus the throw-gas-on-the-fire bullpen of ‘09. This year’s group is very effective at missing bats — that year’s group got by on guile and smoke and mirrors.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Apparently from a couple of google searches I'd rather not repeat
Kyle Lohse was apparently projected to pitch Game 4 of the 2009 NLDS. So yeah, I’d easily take 2011 Jackson over 2009 Lohse.
game 4 in 09 would have been between bad Wellemeyer and bad Lohse
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
Or it could have been Smoltz had he not been used in relief in game 3.
I still think he should have started game 3.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
Smoltz would have been the likely starter
and probably should have started Game 3, due to what Kevin Millar would refer to as “bat missin’ ability”.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Yup
There is no doubt that reasonable minds could differ onn ‘09 nine, but I wasn’t so much saying that I thought we should have won the world series “on paper,” only that we should have beaten the Dodgers… To me Wainwright is worth so much in the playoffs and the Dodgers were just not a sweep of the Cards better….
I know we love to bash Tony around here
and I am no particular fan of his machinations, but I think he deserves a LOT of credit for the Game 2 win. The team was down, not fighting, and maybe getting screwed on the strike zone. He got them up, got them competing, and got into the umpire’s head if nothing else, so that he was thinking about what Tony had said the whole rest of the game.
This was probably already discussed, but I give a doff of the cap to TLR in this one.
The Cardinals win the Wild Card!
I'll credit La Russa for that when he takes the blame for the stupid decision to start Carpenter in the first place.
As lboros points out above — this rarely, if ever, works out well for the team that does it, yet our manager continues to do it anyway. Considering how much a fan of “routine” that Tony expects from his players, why does he resort to this when the playoffs start.
I’m not giving La Russa much credit at all for that win, other than pulling Carp when he did so the lead didn’t get any bigger. Our bullpen stepped up and threw shutout baseball and the bottom of our lineup somehow solved the unsolveable Clifford Lee to the tune of 5 runs in 6 innings. Tony didn’t take any AB’s, and his bitching about the strike zone is irrelevant — his starting pitcher didn’t have his command while Lee was hitting corners and throwing strikes. The zone was equally inconsistent all night, both before and after his 3rd inning tirade on the mound visit.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Yeah, I might say that Tony redeemed himself after the bad idea of starting Carpenter on short rest
So he pulled even in my eyes.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I'm not sure TLR's bitching about the strikezone was irrelevant, or at the very least, we don't know that it was
Umpires are human and their calls are influenced by outside factors, like managers, home crowds, etc.
I think perhaps Meals did (subconciously) alter his strikezone judgment – it would certainly explain that terrible call against Utley.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 4, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Umpires are not human
according to Eric Byrnes
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Byrnes was saying that they shouldn't be human....
He was advocating bringing on the robots.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 4, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Good for him
I agree, at least to the extent that I think there should be something besides the umpire to fall back on.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I'm not entirely sure I hate the 3 days rest start in all cases. Curt Schilling did a pretty good job with it in 2001 (only to be screwed by B-H Kim). That said, Carpenter is pretty clearly the wrong guy for that.
I mean, really? Carpenter on short rest? The dude has like a million surgeries on his arm, and led the NL in IP this year; you think his arm might be a little tired? He’s not exactly young either. I just think there are very few pitchers for whom the short rest start works, and Carp pretty clearly isn’t one of them.
Yeah, I think it's case-by-case
but there should be a pretty strong prejudice against it. I remember Sabathia started every game for a month or two on short rest for the Crew, and he did a splendid job.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Yes, exactly, although I think he looked pretty tired once the playoffs came.
That said, I think there’s a good case for a very select few pitchers being able to do it. Carpenter is a mentally tough guy, but I wouldn’t want him on short rest. I think there were some numbers DanUp posted once that showed Carp was exceptional on extra rest. To me, that’s a possible indication that he would benefit from more rest and be hampered by less. If a guy was really getting plenty of rest, I don’t think an extra day’s rest would help him that much.
I think I recall that Carp has been lights out on the few days he got more than normal rest
I could be wrong about that. But I figure that the more rest he gets the better.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Yeah
Until they got to the playoffs and he got touched up quite a bit.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Still that's like 5+ starts of being successful.
Obviously they overused him, but most teams are just looking for one or two starts on short rest. Still take a special breed though.
I think sinkerball pitchers (like Derek Lowe) are better bets
than pitchers who need command of breaking stuff like Carp does. If he doesn’t have his good breaking stuff and isn’t able to locate it, he really struggles.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Yea, I think a guy that relies on control is probably the last guy you want doing that.
I think Cliff Lee has said that he doesn’t ever want to start on short rest. I think he said that last year with the Rangers.
I don't think anyone else has corrected you on it
so I will take the opportunity. His name isn’t Clifford (as you would expect from most Cliffs), its Clifton. I only remember (and correct you) because its such a goofy name.
Yep, every Hall of Famer did something unique. Mike Schmidt played with his hat sideways. Roberto Clemente chewed other people's fingernails. Tris Speaker was Japanese. Lou Boudreau rode a dolphin into the batter's box. Nap Lajoie would only use John Wilkes Booth's dismembered leg as a bat. And he corked it. Johnny Mize was from the future. - FJM
everyone stay calm... Tim Kurkjian is in St. Louis
stay calm! stay calm I said!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
WE HAVE MADE THE BIG TIME NOW!!!
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
HA IT'S ONLY IRONIC BECAUSE YOU MISUSED THE WORD IRONY
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
Did you learn about irony from Alanis Morissette?
bollocks
by SecondHalfMatt on Oct 4, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate spoons.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. It seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great. - Joe Posnanski
I believe it might be technically ironic to name a song "Ironic" that contains no irony.
I could be wrong about that.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
maybe it's some kind of fancy canadian humor.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'll bet when he heard that song
He remarked, “cut” and gave a big charming smile.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
That was weird
It was supposed to say “cut—it—out!” but it kinda didn’t work and ruined the joke.
Thanks, SBN.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Heh
http://www.thehing.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/button-havemercy.jpg
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
"How rude" of SBN
yuk yuk yuk.
I hate myself for this post.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
I have an uncontrollable urge to clean this subthread with a dust buster.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
oh my lanta
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
I have come to assume it as well.
Very clever, those Canadians.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
I THINK MOST OF US CAUGHT YOUR ARMENIAN
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
by peppermartin on Oct 4, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, if he interviews Lance Berkman...
we can say Berk gonna kurk!
Wait, or is it Kurk gonna berk. Nah, I think it’s the first one.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
VEBers should be prepared with deep questions
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by the way, I think that was the Sunday Conversation
this did happen in Philly
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This is an example of how
we get trapped into a certain way of thinking about baseball … and why it’s important to step out of that box for a while. Sure, I’d love this team to have the defense and speed of the ‘85 juggernaut, paired with the firepower and all-around competence of the ’04 juggernaut. Because they’re lacking those things now (well, maybe not the firepower) I choose to focus on the energy and joy that these guys bring to playing ball, with all their flaws. I’m reveling in the unexpectedness and unpredictability of playoff baseball. And the way our youngest players have put their stamp on this team.
Of course I realize that a strong playoff run will send all the wrong messages to our manager and front office about the construction of next year’s team, but of course one of my primary goals for any season is … a strong playoff run. Actual baseball is what happens to you while you’re busy thinking about what baseball ought to be.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Oct 4, 2011 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I've got a feelin'
berk’s gonna berk
furc’s gonna furc
mang’s gonna bang
jay’s gonna sang
freese’ll get hot
motte’s gotte a lotte
yadi’s gonna party
craig’ll bring torty
theriot – where he go?
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
by peppermartin on Oct 4, 2011 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
hopefully theriot is being cluth.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
oh, i thought you were explaining the punchline
instead of delivering it.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Theriot? He be starting at 2B tonight against the lefty.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Tried to rec, but flagged instead.
Unflag is not working. Sorry.
"The game of baseball is what it is." — TLR
nah, you rec'd. SBN weirdness. Don't sweat it.
My mid-season predictions contest RESULTS
See if you won!
oh. Well, in that case... WHY DD YOU FLAG HIM, YOU MONSTER?!
My mid-season predictions contest RESULTS
See if you won!
sbn is doing that a lot.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I don't feel so bad for feeling the way
that I did back then. The team definitely had the feeling of ‘I hope the just stay above .500.’. They sucked harder than a Hoover right when they were supposed to be getting better. and it was damned hard to watch.
I agree that the Braves dropped the ball….hard. But if we hadn’t just literally pounded our way to the end, we wouldn’t have been in position for anything. So I will give them credit for that. Credit for winning in spite of themselves.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 12:06 PM EDT reply actions
the cards twitter just posted
Not sure how it's Gibson's fault
when he set up his rotation to get his best two starters to pitch the first two games and they both stunk it up.
If there’s one manager that’s made a good decision so far this offseason, it’s Joe Maddon starting Matt Moore in Game 1. THAT’S MANAGING WITH SOME BRASS BALLS.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Go to class
And, STUDY! hope the acctg quiz was a success. 5:07 EST tonight. Jaime, Sweet Spicy Chili Doritos, A&W Root Beer and Zoomzoom to make the game go better. Although, unlucky Zoomzoom does not watch the games anymore … he feels he is bad luck.
Personally, it must be Dunc. Winning streak started when he took a leave of absence. He must be way over rated.
SD
by Gibby45 on Oct 4, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is what I waited half of my morning on?
I miss the days when Danup would have a nice, fresh post ready to go first thing in the morning.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Oct 4, 2011 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
This is so wrong.
Funny, but wrong. I feel like someone has been corrupting you.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Oct 4, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
at least I didn't join in the avatar shenanigans
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
wuss
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
it was really that they were going to turn blue
i root for the cardinals
there is an inherent red-ness involved here.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Swamp Gassers
I like it. We’re just sort of remain, linger, and persist.
We’re the Swamp Gashouse Gang.
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
by lightbulb on Oct 4, 2011 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
and swamps have turtles
aha!
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 4, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
there might be some dry spots.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Do swamps smell
like The Glove?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. It seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great. - Joe Posnanski
they do have mysterious, possibly sentient mists
and zombies.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
probably
and swamp gas is supposed to be cleaner burning so does that mean that we’re good for the enviroment?
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Swamp Gashouse Gang
I love it.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
fine, you monsters. glossary
maybe. for observation.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Yeah, we have to make it at least to the NLCS for serious consideration, I'd say
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
Nice post...
lboros.
I mostly agree – the tail has been wagging the dog w/r/t to the playoffs for so long now the overwhelming majority of fans have ditched an appreciation for a well-rounded team that can perform over 162 games in favor of “just getting to the playoffs… where anything can happen.” I hate that. Finishing 4th instead of 5th is a completely manufactured “acheivement.”
People don''t care, in the end, who came in first in the regular season. They care who won the world series.
by Houdinimachine on Oct 4, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
that's what he dislikes about the playoffs, is what I gather
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
It's sports. It doesn't have to be this totally rational coronation of whichever team exhibits the best "well-roundedness."
In fact, I think it shouldn’t be that.
It’s entertainment. It has never been, and will never be, anything more than that.
My mid-season predictions contest RESULTS
See if you won!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. It seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great. - Joe Posnanski
And?
Professional sports are soap operas. Who could argue that?
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, that's bad entertainment. Baseball is good entertainment!
My mid-season predictions contest RESULTS
See if you won!
It's different things to different people...
many think it’s an athletic competition to determine the best team.
WHOA, HOLD ON. BAD ENTERTAINMENT???
IS THAT RIC FLAIR’S MUSIC?!
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Look Sting in the rafters with a bat...
obviously a baseball fan…
Theriot = what my dog poops out...
by arthropodtodd on Oct 4, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Jason Motte's alter ego Dude Love is trying to get between Flair and fink and prevent a steel chair incident.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
He reminds me a lot more of
Jim “Hacksaw” Duggan.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Thanks, Dude Love. WOOOOO IN YER FACE, NATURE "BOY."
My mid-season predictions contest RESULTS
See if you won!
which reminds me, don't let me renew my insider subscription
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
predicted lineup...
furcal
craig
pujols
berkman
freese
molina
theriot
jay
garcia
rollins
utley
pence
howard
victorino
mayberry
polanco
ruiz
hamels
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:31 PM EDT reply actions
well cheapest parking i found on broadway today
$15
just fyi
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Oct 4, 2011 12:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The Redbird Express?
(everytime we go to a game my grandson wants to get on one of the buses lined up outside, probably ’cause he thinks Fredbird is going to be on board.)
by ArkansasTravs on Oct 4, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
i told rui to take metro. hope he listened.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
he's driving in today.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
they don't make you clear out?
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Purina?
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
silly patti
they make dog food, not frog food
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
soda 5.25 draft 9.75 water 5
i don’t know that they changed anything although beer seems a bit high
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Oct 4, 2011 2:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
this is why I buy an all-inclusive seat
it pays for itself within the first half-hour
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
i take that back, they raised everything
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Oct 4, 2011 2:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Heh.
Ya, a draft (with free magnet!) used to be only $8.50.
"The game of baseball is what it is." — TLR
well, there will be free towels...
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
2011: Boog would've count 78
by d-dee on Oct 4, 2011 2:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i guess someone vetoed the seat cushions.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I hate effin' towels.
Would make a nice souvenir, though. But I put them in the same category as The Wave.
"The game of baseball is what it is." — TLR
wow...
they jacked everything up another dollar from regular season prices.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i wonder how many of the Howard clan have scored tickets.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yeah.
this is news to me as well. who would have known.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
seriously?
they mention it almost every game played between the two teams. And especially when Howard won the MVP over Albert.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
ARE YOU SAYING RYAN HOWARD IS FROM ST. LOUIS?
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. It seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great. - Joe Posnanski
by TBender on Oct 4, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
i (and all4tookie, i assume)
was being sarcastic. what cardinal fan wouldn’t know howard is from st louis, what with how it is always commented on.
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
sorry, i woke up with a headache I can't shake.
not on my best game.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
no problem.
glibness is hard to get across in text format. =)
it is what it is, not what we thought it'd be
wait, he is?
I thought that people claiming that Howard was from St. Louis was the gag all along!
by hr on Oct 4, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
stunningly, no one mentions David Freese.
I have yet to hear anyone comment on it on the live games.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
when David Freese wins the MVP
people will give a shit where he is from.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Oct 4, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
didn't they even go to the same high school
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
fWAR says Freese has actually been worth more than Ryan Howard the last two years
So clearly David Freese is (currently) the awesomest MLB player to graduate from Lafayette high school.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
by mattybobo on Oct 4, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
god ryan howard is overrated.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Preferably from the Cubs, Astros, Brewers, Reds, or Pirates.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
can't wait for that five year, $125 million contract for david freese to kick in five years from now.
by DanUpBaby on Oct 4, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wow. No matter how many times I see Howard's production (or lack thereof),
I am incredibly shocked. Then I realize his new contract hasn’t kicked in yet. Then I can’t stop laughing.
Then I start crying when I realize his HR and RBI totals will make people think he is still worth that contract.
Does anybody think David Freese could be a 3-is to 4-ish WAR player? I mean in a full healthy season.
That’s probably the average year for Howard. His MVP year is the only time he topped 5 WAR, let alone 6.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
yes. he plays a higher-premium position than ryan howard, which is probably worth noting
but he plays a fine third base.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
Eh, it's the seventh inning, better put in his defensive replacement that is arguably the exact same on defense.
"He probably misses his old glasses."
thats a larussa problem
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
no, I think he's a 2 WAR player when his BABIP stabilizes.
small difference, I guess on the high projections he is if he can play with everything on his side (health, BABIP, Power, defense)
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
He's a 2 WAR player if his current-ability-BABIP stabilizes
I’m still expecting better power numbers to develop for Freese, personally.
holy WOW batman
and that is in abbreviated seasons
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
I didn't know
But I usually don’t have the sound on for any games.
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
Thanks for stopping by, lboros
I admit that I feel exactly the same way about this team. I gave up on them after the dreadful August series in Pittsburgh (right before we were swept at home by the Dodgers) and didn’t watch another game until the final weekend series vs. the Cubs.
Now that they actually made it in, I’ll watch and root, with the belief that they made it despite TLR’s boneheaded tactics.
VEB hipster
Harry Potter?
"I don't know, but it works. Doin it for Torty works... He brings us luck and we're gonna roll with it." Allen Craig
I completely agree with the first part of the post
When the Cards blew that 4 run lead against the Mets, and then lost to the Cubs the next day, I was convinced that they didn’t deserve to make the playoffs.
The good thing about the playoffs is that now the Cards are underdogs the whole way, so anything they can take will be deserved.
In both respects, I am remind of the 06 season.
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
we gained four games of ground in five days/games.
we had no business playing a tiebreaker game much less making it outright after that friday night happened.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought I wasn't invested that much in the playoffs
….then I caught myself screaming obscenities at the TV when we were getting shafted by the ump last game. Like, really screaming profanities in a really loud voice. Then Craig almost got hit in the head and I heard those Philly fucks clapping and I got even more pissed off. I think it’s safe to conclude that I was wrong and actually am quite invested.,
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
I remember in 2009
I almost threw my remote through the tv, but caught myself just before i let go of the remote, and instead threw it at the wall
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I can relate, in a different context
I remember losing about 3 to 4 good N64 controllers to Goldeneye. That License to Kill mode shit was intense.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
I did the same thing as well
and when Perfect Dark came out it was even worse.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Because then it had massive slow-down choppiness during all the important parts.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Back in the 70's or early 80's
somebody invented a nerf brick for people to throw at their tvs
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
smart woman
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup
I tried telling myself and VEB that I was kind of ambivalent. Maybe I was for a while. As soon as it came down to the wire and we still had a shot, however I was committed.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Same here.
Yet every night I watched the games. Even the postgames! Baseball is baseball.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
It does feel like that '06 team
The aught-six Cardinals were a better team going into the playoffs than they were for most of the season. That roster was constructed on the fly, an on-going work of tinkering and tuning to create a just-good-enough machine. This year’s model has that same vibe. Also, if you convert just 40% of the blown saves turned losses from the ’11 season, the Cardinals are suddenly like a 100 win team. It took enduring frustration and circumstance to get them in the gate, but really: What team left standing is significantly better than the Cardinals right now?
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
Not to mention
all the injuries. ’06 had Mulder and Edmonds missing significant time. In ’11, Wainwright was lost for the season and both Freese and Holliday have missed a number of games, not to mention Pujols.
In ’06, Scott Speizio and John Rodriguez played big off the bench when other guys were hurt. In ’11 we have Allen Craig, Jon Jay, Punto, and Descalso filling in well off the bench.
The comparison is definitely apt.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Shouldn't we put in that haven't had Punto and Craig
for large chunks of time. They weren’t even available off the bench for a couple of months each.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
also in 06
Rolen, Isringhausen, and Pujols all missed time as well.
Also deserving mention is the legendary Jason Marquis, who posted a 6.02 ERA In 194 innings, which makes me nauseous just typing. That works out to an ERA+ of 74. Soup’s was 108. (Even Ponson wasn’t that bad….)
We’ve possibly lost even more WAR to the DL this year, with Holliday, Punto, and Craig having multiple stints, and Wainwright being out the entire year.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
That just shows how much more talent this club has if it were ever fully healthy
I mean, we won 90 games with all those guys hurt AND all the poor play that we’ve had during the year AND a fairly poor year from Albert by his standards.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Swings and roundabouts
we’ve also had a bunch of guys playing way over their heads. Will Nick Punto and Allen Craig ever put up 4.4 WAR in 300-odd PAs again? Is David Freese really a 4-5 WAR guy? Is Jon Jay really a 3-4 guy? I’d say the big performances from relatively unexpected sources has more than made up for the underperformances/injuries we’ve had in other areas.
I bet if you play out a Waino-free season, we’ll be a sub-90-win team more often than not.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 4, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
This is absolutely true
But go look at who was on our bench in ‘06 — should we have expected those seasons from Spiezio and J-Rod? Probably not. I can say that I think that Jay and Craig are better bets to repeat those numbers in a full season of PA’s than Spiezio or J-Rod were after ‘06. I think Craig could easily be a 3-4 WAR player in LF — I think he’s proven that his stick is good enough to merit playing time in a corner outfield spot in the major leagues. Jon Jay has been worth 2-3 WAR in each of the last two seasons if you extrapolate his 2010 to 500 PA’s.
Thing is — in from ‘07 – ’09 we really didn’t have ANYONE that could be expected to step up and fill in for injuries, thus, when we had them, we had replacement level players filling those spots, or we were trading for replacement level players to fill those spots.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Chris Duncan managed to contribute 2.3 fWAR in 90 games in 06
….let that sink in for a minute.
The contributions from the bench/minors in 2011 have definitely made the team a lot more fun to watch.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
And had maybe the biggest hit of the entire post-season
besides Yadi’s Game 7 homer.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
More or less agree with that
I was just pointing out that I don’t think it’s right to say that the club, more often than not, does better than we did in 2011 with everybody healthy. We had some slightly rough luck on injuries (although, to be honest, not THAT bad – most clubs will lose a handful of starting position players for 30+ starts in the course of a season, and other than Wainwright our rotation has been largely healthy) but I think that was balanced by generally good luck in terms of the performance of some marginal players.
From 07-09 you’re right we pretty much sucked, until we picked up Holliday, though!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 5, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Are we pumped up yet? I don't think we are pumped up.
audio or it didn't happen
Secretary of WAR and defense (Tyler Greene Fanclub). PUT TYLER ON THE GREENE.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. It seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great. - Joe Posnanski
fined for an unspecified amount?
whatever it was, I bet TLR signs the check with a smile
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
he includes a photograph along with his signature
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
creeepy
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
Looks like he's holding a tiny child's bat.
(the bat being tiny, not the child)
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 4, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Positively priapic.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 4, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
god, that article mentions the phil cuzzi game.
screw him.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't mean to ruin the Strauss hate around here,
but I’m pretty sure he doesn’t make the headlines. Could be wrong.
Yeah, I always forget that the writers don't necessarily write the headlines
Which is too bad, because I will often just refuse to read an article if I hate the headline.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
this is correct
they don’t write the headlines
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
@CardsInsider
St. Louis Cardinals
StL Lineup vs. PHI – Game 3 (10/4): Furcal, 6; Craig, 7; Pujols, 3; Berkman, 9; Freese, 5; Molina, 2; Theriot, 4; Jay, 8; Garcia, 1.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. It seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great. - Joe Posnanski
Yeah, I mean, this wasn't predictable at all considering it was identical to Sunday's lineup minus the carp
by hr on Oct 4, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
YOU KNOW WHAT
SHUT UP
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I, for one,
am shocked that Chris Carpenter isn’t pitching on one days rest. I mean, he’s a gamer right? His team needs him? He could just not run foul pole sprints and get his ass back on that mound!!!
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
by fourstick on Oct 4, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A true gamer would march into Tony La Russa's office and say,
“Skip, the team needs me. I’m gonna throw every damn pitch between now and the end of the World Series.”
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
And slide head-first into every damn base.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Heh
Having a player actually named “Skip” really screws with my imaginary dialogues between Tony and his players.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Me too. I've thought a lot about that.
“Tony”? “Coach”? It’s gotta be “Skip”. Another reason to get rid of Schu. Maybe the best one.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
there is video evidence that it's Skip'
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Still confusing.
Maybe nobody ever means Schu when they say “Skip”. Maybe they never talk to him at all.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
they actually call him Schu
and no, they don’t. they just make him get coffee and grab his— uh yeah. no talking needed.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
maybe in the clubhouse they all just call him Jared
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
I'm just waiting for him to go head first into 1B
and have the throw skip past the 1B glove and into his earpiece. Not that I want it to happen, just waiting for it to happen.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
or he fucking breaks a finger on the base
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
or that
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
or damages ligaments in his wrist
or dislocates his shoulder and tears his labrum and/or rotator cuff
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
or he doesn't go head first
and a high throw gets away from the short stop and he takes it in the earpiece while running through the bag
Grit != flat out sucking.
Since when is skip 9 feet tall?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I think he meant wide.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, yeah, yeah
I kinda figured you’d be the one to throw that out there.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
CBP in Philly is asymmetrical
LF is a little smaller than RF. Berkman played LF exclusively on the road in ballparks w/ a large RF. I want to say he played left in Houston, too.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
So,
Cards in 4?
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
HUSH YOUR MOUTH
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
I know this isn't something we do alot (strangely)
but i pose a simple question.
Will the Cardinals of St. Louis, Missouri, USA defeat the Phillies of Philadelphia, Some state, USA in a game of base-ed balls this eve’n?
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
If Jaime can deal with the pressure of the post-season
and do what he has done in his career against the Phillies – I like our chances.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
wat
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
This is the correct answer to the GOB poking that Aranathor is advocating.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i hate magical thinking
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
just because harry potter didn't cast you doesn't mean you should be bitter
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'LL BE BITTER ALL I WANT
I DIDN’T WANT TO BE A WIZARD ANYWAY
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
do you ever refer to your girlfriend as Ginny?
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
That's not his girlfriend.
I think the word you were looking for is classmate.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I kind of think it all depends on Game 3 obviously.
If we win, then I like our chances. If they win, I don’t think we’ll come back and win at all. On the other hand, I can still see the Phillies coming down from behind 1.
So I guess, what I’m saying, is that I don’t really think we will unless Garcia can outduel Hamels.
if I get drunk enough, by god I think they just might have a chance
it’s a lot of pressure, but I can handle it.
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
Good luck, we're all counting on you.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. It seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great. - Joe Posnanski
Is this weird or is it just me?
Jaime’s stats by batting order
Place in lineup | AVG
1 |0.357
2 |0.213
3 |0.217
4 |0.244
5 |0.265
6 |0.298
7 |0.350
8 |0.273
9 |0.231
How much of that noise is coming from the first and second inning?
I seem to recall Jamie having lot of issues with the first couple of innings when he doesn’t have his good stuff. Seems like if he’s able to settle in he does fine.
I think that most of this might be statistical noise though.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Jaime seems to generally have a good first and second inning (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=garcija02&year=&t=p#innng).
which leads me to believe that it’s mainly noise than actual substance
by hr on Oct 4, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm thinking of specific starts where he's struggles though:
5/28 against the Rockies — 6 Runs in the first inning is the one that really comes to mind
Although now that I’m looking at game logs, it seems there were a few in the last couple years where teams scored a lot of unearned runs early, which is interesting. Apparently Jamie puts the defense to sleep or something….
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
It is kind of weird that the No. 2 and No. 3 hitter in the lineup has a worse average than the pitching spot.
Both spots traditionally have the opposing team’s best hitters so you would expect that to happen.
yeah, that's what I was looking at
and what’s with #6,7 hitters? I guess in <100 PA’s, aynthing can happen.
by hr on Oct 4, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
couple things
1. I’m sure part of the #9 anomaly is that there are a lot of pinch hitters thrown in there
2. probably putting a little too much confidence in managers about optimal lineup construction
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
I agree with the pinch hitter thing, but the thing I really don't understand is how #2 and #3 hitters are hitting ~.215
This is boggling my mind. Could it be a L/R split thing? I have no explanation other than SSS
by hr on Oct 4, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting question -
are there a disproportionate # of lefthanders or switch-hitters in the 2-3 spots (and is jaime’s split big enough to make the difference)? Seems unlikely, but what do I know. His 2010 numbers look a lot more normal. So, I guess SSS
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
actually, doesn't jaime have a reverse L/R split this year
not that it really means anything, but his season was very unusual. 7 2/3 perfect innings against the brewers, 13 ER against the Rockies…it’s our very own Ricky Nolasco except for the JAIME.
by hr on Oct 4, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don't think the Cardinals are that lucky to be here. It has been ugly at times, sure.
And I would be lying to you if I said I didn’t also count them out around the end of August, but I really do think they’re a good team that’s deserving of the playoffs.
Looking at the Adjusted Standing over at Baseball Prospectus, they’re listed as the 3rd best NL team for the season behind the Phils and Brewers.
Yes, yes, they did perform above their Pythagorean. And, yes, they had the delight of playing against the Astros, the Cubs, and the Pirates a bunch of times. But you know who else outperformed their Pythagorean and beat up on crap teams? The Braves. The Diamondbacks. The Brewers. I think sometimes we can get caught up in the truly awful moments our favorite team went through, but we don’t see the ones other teams went through.
More importantly though, I think this September team and playoff team is even better than the regular season team. The roster we have now doesn’t have the April/May Albert, or Albert’s broken arm/wrist, or Ryan Franklin, or Miguel Batista. Kyle McClellan isn’t trying and failing to be a 5th starter for this team. Ditto Ryan Theriot at SS. Allen Craig is healthy now, and so is Nick Punto. Heck, even Capt. Glass is healthy enough to play third.
I honestly think that this team, as currently constructed (and with a healthy Matt Holliday), would legitimately be at LEAST a 90 win team, and possibly up to 95 at the high end. That’s a pretty dang good team, no matter how ugly it has looked and played at times this season. I don’t know if we’ll beat the Phillies, but I’m excited to watch this team play.
by Cardinals645 on Oct 4, 2011 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Not according to @CardsInsider
I think someone posted the starting lineup above.
But yea, I put “a healthy Holliday” in parentheses because that’s less than a given right now.
Couldn't agree more
why is all about how the Brave lost the wild card? We still had to win our games to make in. I thought this team looked much better in September than any other point of the year.
I also don’t get “I quit watching the games” comments some are making. I love this team, I’m pissed when they lose and stoked when they win. In my opinion, a fan follows regardless of the record. Flame away btw. i say that because I learn about the team in the loss. I learn about something i don’t like or someone who I think needs to go. They are my team and I have too many great memories to quit watching.
Theriot = what my dog poops out...
by arthropodtodd on Oct 4, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Well the Braves DID lose the WC.
My point is more that they lost it not because of some fluke, but because they were never really that good to begin with. Whereas, the Cardinals won it because they were never really as awful as they had been playing (or at least less awful than the Braves).
that i can agree with
Theriot = what my dog poops out...
by arthropodtodd on Oct 4, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The Braves did have a bunch of injuries though, right?
Also, Heyward had a disappointing year. I think they had similar problems to us, but theirs largely came later in the season. Not saying we weren’t actually a better team than they were.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Yea, I think both teams went through a lot.
I’m just disagreeing with any notion that the Cards aren’t one of the top four teams in the NL, I think they are quite easily.
I think McCann spent a bit of time on the DL too, and didn't play nearly as well afterward.
He’s pretty much their best player.
Right
It’s a fallacy to say that the Cardinals “didn’t win” the wild card because the Braves lost a lot at the end. A lot of internet wordage has been written on the notion that even full seasons sometimes are arbitrary samples. The Cardinals had a good month and the Braves had a bad month at the same time, but if the wins and losses had been distributed differently the outcome would have been the same.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
i expect this thread will next debate how the brewers won the division...?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I did a lot of research on this subject actually
and I can almost conclusively say that they won it by winning more games, out of a possible 162, than every other team in their division.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
does usa today have a pie chart?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Oct 4, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
KEYS TO THE SEASON: MILWAUKEE BREWERS
The slice labeled “Milwaukee Brewers” represents the teams that won the National League Central Division in 2011. The other slices of the chart represent teams that did not win the National League Central Division.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
The 2011 NL Central, as seen by the USA Today
"He probably misses his old glasses."
by Alxfritz on Oct 4, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
That's a little advanced for them
I’m guessing something like this would be more within their capabilities:
What is Corey Patterson doing in Tyler Greene's spot on the 25-man roster?
the Braves were badly missing Hanson & Jurrjens
just a few more starts out either one of them, and ATL probably takes the WC.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
Wainwright all year
and we probably do a lot better
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Paging Dr. Wainwright ... paging Dr. Wainwright to the man stew
/repost
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Healthy Wainwright vs 5 months of KMac starting
probably = 4-5 more wins, all else being equal.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 4, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And probably no Colby trade...
So the Colby trade is all WW’s fault!!!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
TOWELS!!!!
No thunder stix tonight, but rally towels will be given to #stlcards fans. #11in11
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 2:01 PM EDT reply actions
I didn't get the notice!!!
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
It sure feels good that such a small city can pull out such great fans
by hr on Oct 4, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
saint louis is not a small city.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, that's what i meant.
technicalities and all that.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, it's not THAT small.
It’s hardly LA, Houston, SF, NY, Chicago, DC, or Dallas off the top of my head. I would imagine it IS quite a bit larger than some of the other cities with teams.
18th largest metro area in the country...
19th largest in the mlb if you count new york, LA, and chicago as having “two teams”
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That's about what I would expect.
Still puts them in bottom half.
LA is a little funky though, since Angels aren’t really that close to Dodgers. That said, the OC/Riverside are is quite populous as well.
cf catalog of similar VEB discussions
I’m sure there’s a catalog somewhere, i’m just not in charge of it.
it seems to mention Imo’s a lot.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
neither is the Tampa Bay area.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
tampa and saint louis are virtually the same size.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
and yet one of them managed to sell out all tickets in a matter of hours
by hr on Oct 4, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
The start time in STL today
should be the start time for all games in TB. They might get some of the retirement crowd.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
1. saint louis is not a small city
2. the fanbase is rather large
3. no matter the size, it doesn’t take a whole hell of a lot to get 43,000 asses in seats and another 3,000 pairs of feet on the ground behind those seats
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
re number 3
the diamondbacks would like a word with you. i am fairly certain there are still seats available for tonight
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
OKAY FINE WE HAVE GREAT FANS AND ARE AWESOME
ALSO FUCK THE BREWERS GO DBACKS
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
thank you!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
but really, this was meant to be a knock on the dbacks more than anything else.
its sad, really.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
eh, only been playing for 14 seasons.
there hasn’t been a generation of kids whose parents grew up D-backs fans yet
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
this is true.
well i am going tonight and i hope i will be in a good mood when i get there
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
Have you been to Miami recently?
no matter the size, it doesn’t take a whole hell of a lot to get 43,000 asses in seats and another 3,000 pairs of feet on the ground behind those seats
by hr on Oct 4, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a "Phightin' Phils" towel from Game 1
if anyone would like to ritually burn it.
The Cardinals win the Wild Card!
awww
it’s cute, they tried to spell.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll bring my own damn thundersticks
as soon as I buy a ticket
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I really wish they would ban those damn things.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Yeah, we have a really crappy team.
Only won 90 games. After all, we win more than 90 every year. Not.
And the crappy current roster is not responsible for 10 or more of our losses. Even accepting all the injuries, the current roster is 10 wins better than what we strated with. Trade Franklin, Batista, Miller, Talliet, Green, Rasmus, Green for Salas, Zep, Dotel, Furcal, Rhodes, Chambers.
Both my Torty shirts came today
The one from Rinawear AND the Brekenthebox design
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 2:05 PM EDT reply actions
Hey guys, does anybody else really hate that song they play during TBS commercials?
I mean, it’s a pretty crappy song in general, but then they got to go and play it every 10 minutes 18 times a game at least not counting bullpen changes mid-inning.
By the way, I found what song it was. Written in the Stars
hey I won that bet of ours(pujols .400 wOBA), I'll email the sig or avatar (not sure what we bet on) later.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
I'll look it up later, I have to go.
THE BATMAN|TOWEL BOY.|VP of TG Fanclub
Twitter|Google+|FREE TYLER GREENE!
it was a top 40 hit in april and june. it wasn't that hard to know what it was.
but yeah they’re kind of murdering it.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't listen even listen to the radio anymore cause when I turn it on, out comes crap.
Perhaps, that is a little exaggerated, but I really try to avoid any of the songs that have been in the Top 10 or 40 or whatever in Billboard cause they are all poppy, catchy songs that aren’t very good.
So you like Lady Gaga, KeSha, Katy Perry, LMFAO and the like?
With perhaps the exception of Lady Gaga, talentless hacks who are only famous because they have catchy beats. Hell, I don’t even think they create the beats they sing off of either to make it worse.
I probably wouldn't recognize any one of those artists if you played them for me.
But catchy is nice. And there is a kind of pop music I like.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, I do like most of the above
then again, 95% of the time I’m listening to music, I’m not actually sitting down and listening to music. I just like peppy, upbeat, and uptempo music in the background as I’m driving, exercising, surfing the internet, making inane comments on VEB, etc.
And also for most of the other 5% of the time, when I do sit down and listen to music, it’s generally not in the pop/rock genre, but instead vocal jazz, where modern artists are singing songs that have been around for decades and putting their own little spin on it. Maybe that’s why I’ve never really understood the whole mentality that it is somehow critically important that a pop/rock singer writes his or her own music.
what is everyone's playlist
for making inane comments on VEB?
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Been digging this old band I just found.
They’re English, Liverpool, I think.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. It seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great. - Joe Posnanski
This afternoon it's been a lot of Richard Thompson
and The Replacements.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Richard Thompson, excellent
massive fan. Which albums you been on? Mock Tudor, Sweet Warrior and You, Me, Us are three of my all-time faves. I think that guy has produced more genuinely great music than anyone else in history.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 4, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm listening to Chevelle's new single
followed by Disturbed, Korn, etc.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
N*ggas in Paris
wait i already plugged my song? sht sorry
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
Anyway, my point wasn't to bash that.
My point was that I’ve never heard that song until the playoffs.
well there you go.
but yet you still find time to get in a car and go steal fast food.
fire tony larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 4, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Does anyone *not* hate it?
It’s fitting that the commercial is plastered with Yankees because that’s what the song reminds me of every time I hear it.
by hr on Oct 4, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Fricking Haas Mexican Avocados
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i'm hoping it was really the haas part
so stop mentioning them
or
get those new gloves
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I think I'm the only person on VEB who gets any joy out of pop music...but I like it
It’s definitely not a good song for baseball, though.
depends on the definition of "pop music"
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
we probably have different definitions of pop, but not true
why just last night i found some great new pop music
Oh, hello there baseball.
Rangers up early on Kinsler’s solo HR.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. It seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great. - Joe Posnanski
Mizzou making a fine showing in the playoffs so far between Scherzer and Kinsler
My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red
play at the plate
the jay smash that works
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Beltre has been awesome again this year
In only 124 games too. I feel like I haven’t heard much about the Rangers’ position players. Kinsler, Napoli, Beltre, Andrus, Young, and Hamilton have all been between very good and excellent. I remember being kind of envious at the end of last year since I have a lot of friends in the Dallas area who are Rangers fans.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
The Mitch-Larry-John Stooges
all pick the Phils. This could bode well for the Cards.
"The game of baseball is what it is." — TLR
i might not be on the game thread
due to circumstances beyond the basement
but i have cotton candy
so i hope this works
buy your damn sandwiches, clank
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
some of these comments need greening
but it’s not like i have another puppet account
or anything like that
nope.
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
puppet accounts are childish.
probably a werewolf.
by clankbot on Oct 4, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Can anyone explain the reasoning behind
the retarded division series game times? I know it’s always been this way but it’s still stupid.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
i think there's a cream for that
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
by Aranathor on Oct 4, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great band names from Eastern Europe's past
Bela Kun and the Kommunists
Count Karolyi and the Counterrevolutionaries
Admiral Horthy Goes to Budapest
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
by Aranathor on Oct 4, 2011 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
We weren't lucky in September as much as Braves stopped being lucky
I have the same feelings as lboros, but feelings can often be wrong. You can think pre-September Cardinals are a bunch of losers who got lucky, but really the story is the Braves were very lucky before then and then stopped. We only should have been 3.7 losses back starting Sept instead of 9.
Actual vs. Pythagorean record:
- Braves Pre-Sept: 80-55 vs. 75-60
- Cardinals Pre-Sept: 72-64 (9 losses back) vs. 72.3-63.7 (3.7 losses back)
- Braves Sept: 9-18 vs. 10.1-16.9
- Cards Sept: 18-8 (-10 losses) vs. 15.8-10.2 (-5.7 losses)
So using Real or Pythagorean record improvements, we still were the winner in the end. Actually we should have won by 2 games.
I would guess that the Braves losing both Jurrjens and Hanson
at around the same time did a number on their Pythag record, as those guys were probably helping them outperform it considerably for the first 4 months of the season.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Also
A good bullpen will generally help you outperform pythag too, as you’ll win more one run games than you probably should. The Braves bullpen was absolute nails for the first 5 months and then struggled in September. The Cardinal bullpen was exactly the opposite.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
by fourstick on Oct 4, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gonzalez' usage of Kimbrel & Venters is going to be scrutinized pretty heavily in the offseason
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
Did he overuse them in low-leverage spots?
I know they made a ton of appearances, and it’s pretty evident that they both ran out of gas by September. But unless they ran out of gas because they were poorly utilized in the first five months, I don’t see how that’s Gonzalez’s fault. Better to blame him for not switching them out of their roles in Sept. once it became apparent they couldn’t perform them well any more.
it wasn't so much the leverage, it was just the raw number of innings both of them threw
Venters had 85 (!) appearances and threw 88 innings. Kimbrel had 79 and threw 77 innings. Both of those are huge numbers for relievers.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
Right, but I'm asking if that use was inefficient in terms of leverage.
If Venters threw, say, 75 pre-September innings in tie games, that’s one thing — can’t blame the manager for throwing him out there until he can’t throw any more, as long as the the leverage is high. But if a bunch of those innings were 8th innings where they were up 4 runs or whatever, that’s fine.
Basically, I’m saying that when you have relievers that good, a manager should run them out of gas, as long as he’s not wasting them in low-leverage spots.
again I don't think it was the leverage
Venters appeared in 13 games in September, Kimbrel 12. If they’re literally pitching in every other game, there is a strong risk of them breaking down.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
Well that's fair.
To which I’d add that Gonzalez could fairly be criticized for putting those guys in late inning situations, at all, after it became apparent that they weren’t performing and weren’t his best options. But on that count, the preference for Anointed Closers etc. probably will protect him some.
I don't even think they really broke down
Kimbrel was sitting 97-100 in that last game.
Not afraid to nitpick
(i have a feeling the door just opened to control vs. command)
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
ayup
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
Reasonable opinion:
Had Medlen started the season in the bullpen, the Braves win 95 games.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Good starters help you outpace pythag?
Is that a real thing? I know that good bullpen leveraging contributes, but I’ve never seen anything suggesting that starting pitching meaningfully distorts r/d results.
Not necessarily
But it is the case with the Braves this year. Go look at their Game Result bar graph here. It tells the story pretty well.
I think the bullpen had a greater effect on the Pythag record and the loss of the starters had a great impact on their ultimate demise, however.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
That's a cool graph.
I want a smoothed curve, but it might not really look like anything then. Anyway, neat.
We absolutely murdered the Braves on WAR as well IIRC
When I checked the other day I couldn’t believe how few 2+ WAR players they had. Other than the bullpen, we beat them in most positions.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 4, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
ditto
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
I dunno
Cano has more power, but Kinsler plays much better defense. They’re pretty close. Kinsler is a year older though.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
But Cano is from the DR.
So he’s probably 45.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know that Cano has more power if you take him out of Yankee Stadium.
He’s more of a doubles hitter away from Yankee Stadium. Kinsler has HR power and draws more walks, Cano hits for better average and hits more doubles.
Either would be a significant improvement over our craptastic second baseman.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
I'd take Cano.
Honestly, I’d take healthy Utley over any 2B I’ve seen in my years of watching baseball (disclaimer: less than 10).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 4, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Healthy, peak Utley was one of the best players, period, I've seen.
Unfortunately (or fortunately, for the next 2-3 games) I’m afraid healthy, peak Utley is gone for good.
Yeah, I think I might take both Cano and Kinsler over Utley right now
If we’re talking about using a time machine that changes everything.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Infield of Gehrig, Hornsby, Wagner, and uh, I dunno, Mike Schmidt I guess
Outfield of Ruth, Cobb, and Mays.
Ceterum censeo La Russa ire necesse est.
Not sure you could convince Cobb to take the field with that team.
And I’d rather keep Mays than him. So… who, Mantle?
How is Stan Musial not in your outfield?
Use the time machine to edit this comment before it was posted.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 4, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
bgh beat me to it
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
Of all these players
I would be Ruth would be the worst playing in today’s league. I bet he would do damn well, though, in the past-pitch softball beer league.
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
Ruth's hand-eye coordination was incredible.
In fact, if I remember correctly a university ran a series of tests on Pujols that had also been run on Ruth. Both scored very similarly. I wish I could find the article.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 4, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I remember the article
I just don’t think Ruth’s build and conditioning would translate well today. Pitching has become so specialized that I don’t think they would find much problem exposing his weaknesses.
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
of course
if you’re going to hypothetically make Ruth face modern pitchers, you have to give him access to the same tools those pitchers do. If Ruth was making $30M/yr, he’d probably have been in better shape due to contract legalese.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
you don't happen to have a newsletter I can subscribe to, do you?
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
You can have all those guys
I’ll take Dustin Pedroia. 8.0 fWAR this season. Plus, I like that he’s a gamer. Not all that expensive either when you think about it.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
dgoold: just needs coors
Holliday takes BP, says he’s available tonight to pinch hit, feels much better. Did not get shot, told it’s improving w/o one #STLcards 18 minutes ago
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yadi taking bp via cardsinsider
http://lockerz.com/s/144376966
would've.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
He didn't get shot!? What a surprise!
I heard Philly can be quite dangerous for those with big heads. Just ask Polanco.
by hr on Oct 4, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
hey it's lboros!
for some reason, I have the feeling that Lance Berkman would really appreciate the name “King of the Swamp Gas”
Also, the big sports networks are focusing on Jaime’s sterling numbers against the Phillies… I do not like that.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I think VEB tends to underrate just how good the 2011 Cardinals bats have been
We led the NL in runs scored. We finished behind only three AL (DH) teams in runs scored. All three of those teams have hitter’s parks, and we have a pitcher’s park. Plus, run scoring is down across the majors.
This team mashes. It mashes good. While we’re all busy being sad about Waino going down and agonizing about Westbrook and Franklin and Batista, this offense has mashed and mashed and mashed. Bad Pujols and Berk and Holliday have been an MV3 worthy of the label and basically every position has contributed offensively, especially in the second half. Yadi has been an elite-hitting catcher. Craig’s been a monster when healthy (and playing). Furcal hit pretty close to his career OPS, and clubbed a .275/.347/.473 mark in the final month.
This is a really good team, and if we could all force ourselves to look past the drama (Rasmus) and pain points (Franktista), we’d see that was have a good, mostly-likeable club, I think.
I, for one, like this team. And I don’t really give a shit whether the Braves collapsed. Bottom line is that the Cards had lots of injury problems, lost their best pitcher for the season, and still won 90 games. I like this team.
by mojowo11 on Oct 4, 2011 3:09 PM EDT reply actions 11 recs
I also like this team. Alot.
I have said that before. This also seems like a team that VEB should like, there are alot of young dudes getting a chance to shine. I have really enjoyed this team.
I also don’t care how crappy the Braves played, that sucks for them, it does not suck for me. Some team has to play crappy for another team to make such an epic run to the post season. This September was the most exciting non-playoff month of baseball that I can remember.
Oh yeah… Puma!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Exactly
I don’t like the “well, if the Braves had played better” point. Sure, the Braves play better in September and we don’t make it. Also, if the Cards play worse in September, we don’t make. Also, if the Braves play a little better in September but worse in April then the Cards still make it. Picking an arbitrary endpoint like the beginning of September and trivializing the whole season by pointing out that the Braves played poorly after that point isn’t particularly valid to me as a condemnation of this team or this season. Bottom line: the Cardinals won more games than the Braves this year. Who cares if the Braves got a disproportionate amount of those losses toward the end? That’s supposed to make me less happy that the Cardinals are in the playoffs? Screw that.
by mojowo11 on Oct 4, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd a thousand times
I hate those time-dependent narratives. It’s all bullshit; the same that a lot of stupid baseball writers were pushing Ryan F’ing Howard for NL MVP a couple of years back despite one Albert Pujols out-hitting him for 5 months of the year.
A win in June is worth just as much as a win in September. We didn’t beat the Braves because they lost it in September. We beat the Braves because we won more baseball games than they did over 6 months.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 4, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed with the subject line.
I think the general underestimation of the team is a result of how frustrating they’ve been to watch. Bad defense plus TLR head-scratchers plus the early-season bullpen led to this omnipresent sense of We Are Underachieving.
So...
a guy on twitter actually thinks I’m the Aaron Hill that plays for Arizona.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
by albrtfn on Oct 4, 2011 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
he said he picked me for THREE of his fantasy teams this year!!
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
You should hang out with CCarp37
Hit me up on Google+
FIRE TONY LA RUSSA
by jd is legend on Oct 4, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
...
Steve Mitchell
@AaronBaronHill Good to chat with you…go kick some Brewer butt!! My brother is a D-backs fan…lives in Scottsdale
8 minutes ago from web
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
tell him that you're going to hit THREE homeruns just for him!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
That would be hilarious, but I don't think the real Aaron Hill can do that.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
but you are FAKE Aaron Hill!
also tell him you’ll give him your game-used glove…for $25,000!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
He seems to be a nominal/lurker VEBer
he follows bgh and IHB, but those are the only VEBers that he follows
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
maybe he just likes to follow lawyers?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Oct 4, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hmm at one time i knew which VEBer he was
all4tookie maybe?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
oh wait
nevermind. this guy just recently started following me
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
Aaron Hill is from St. Louis???
Birds in St. Louis, but they goin' reptilian.
by all4tookie on Oct 4, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
so it's not you???
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
In mitigation of this team...
We won 90 games. The Cards have won 90 games only once (IIRC) in the last 8 years. We had the 8th most wins in the major leagues this year. And our best pitcher went under the knife before the season started.
Sans Wainwright, I expected that we were something like an 85-win team, at best. By hook or by crook, despite all the disappointing and irritating losses and the machinations of the back- and front-offices of the ballclub, we ended up with 90 wins.
I think, given the general zeitgeist of this site, it’s pretty clear VEB is largely turned off by TLR and some of the decisions made by this ballclub; that aside, however, it’s been a pretty good (if weird) year to be a Cards fan, and it’s easy (having watched all the mis-steps and botched managerial moves of recent times) to forget that we actually have a pretty decent team.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 4, 2011 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
2004, 2005 and 2009 are all 90+ win teams
this is a pretty good team.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I wasn't counting 2004. Because I can't count. I knew we had the best record with the MV3.
I couldn’t remember how many we won in 2005. I knew 2009 but you got me on ’05.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 4, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
counting is overrated anyways.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Yeah those are American wins
Monk is talking about British wins. I think it’s an exchange rate problem.
Hit me up on Google+
FIRE TONY LA RUSSA
by jd is legend on Oct 4, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
We call them winnes.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Oct 4, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
each one of those teams had less Puma than this team.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
93 in 01
97 in 02
105 in 04
100 in 05
91 in 09
that’s just the Pujols era….we’re spoiled I tells ya.
Anyway, as for Tony….he’s like every other manager in that people tolerate him when we’re winning and want to fire him when we’re losing. He does some bizarre things and he does some smart things. He’s a manager.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
by nota bene on Oct 4, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just like managers,
fans micromanage too. Then you sit back and look at the big picture and realize things aren’t so bad after all.
I want more... More baaaacon!
Jim Gaffigan
by blueinmemphis on Oct 4, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
is there any easy way to determine how many times in history
or maybe even just the past 25 years, the team with the most regular season wins was the team to win the WS?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
this is a couple years old
awesome, thanks.
looks like Boston did it once and NY did it twice. doesn’t have 2010, but i know the giants did not have the best record.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
Playoff Systems
Before the implementation of the LCS, there was a one-in-two chance the team with the best record won the World Series. Obviously, MLB moving to three divisions and addinga Wild Card changed things even more dramatically. The odds are so different in each era that I’d look at them separately.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 4, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Much thanks
Now using the service I paid for. Thank the intertrons.
by cloistermaximus on Oct 4, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Holliday Update
Matt Holliday took batting practice on the field today and said that he’s definitely improving in his recovery from tendinitis in his right hand. He had not been hitting on the field, and in the past couple of days had not been hitting pregame at all. He is considered available to pinch-hit and there seems to be at least some hope that he could do more than that at some point. I’ll have a good bit more on this on the site later this afternoon.
When was this diagnosis made?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SITTING ON THIS INFORMATION?!?!?
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
by Aranathor on Oct 4, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
two, in fact
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
some hope he can do something else at some point
well i’m glad his career isn’t over
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
"something else"
does not indicate baseball-related activities.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I think about an hour ago.
Yesterday, it sounded like they were gonna cut off his hand .
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
right after he signed the contract
he started to feel a little “discomfort”
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
does cortisone help with tendinitis?
if I’m not mistaken, the only thing that really heals tendinitis is rest.
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
yes
the suffix “itis” indicates inflammation, which cortisone is indicated for.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
they basically already have
he’s had acupuncture
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
acupuncture
is not a placebo. there are measurable benefits.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i like it when we come full circle
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
start
Pull quotes for those too lazy to look at the link:
In 1990, three Dutch epidemiologists analyzed 51 controlled studies of acupuncture for chronic pain and concluded that “the quality of even the better studies proved to be mediocre. . . . The efficacy of acupuncture in the treatment of chronic pain remains doubtful.” 4 They also examined reports of acupuncture used to treat addictions to cigarettes, heroin, and alcohol, and concluded that claims that acupuncture is effective as a therapy for these conditions are not supported by sound clinical research 5.
Melzack and Wall note that pain relief produced by acupuncture can also be produced by many other types of sensory hyperstimulation, such as electricity and heat at acupuncture points and elsewhere in the body. They conclude that “the effectiveness of all of these forms of stimulation indicates that acupuncture is not a magical procedure but only one of many ways to produce analgesia [pain relief] by an intense sensory input.” In 1981, the American Medical Association Council on Scientific Affairs noted that pain relief does not occur consistently or reproducibly in most people and does not operate at all in some people 7.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Dude. That's like 20 years ago.
The Chinese invented that shit like 3 thousand years ago, son!
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea where those linked numbers will take you
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
yeah, looks like they go back to this thread
weird
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I'm trying to figure out how to ask you how you feel about electrical stimulation
without getting a deluge of giggling responses
Still not a werewolf.
We use it some
perhaps you can try it with your classmate
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
It ain't nothin' nice.
The negative waves. Always with the negative waves...
Elation. Sadness. Mayhem. Champagne. Sleepless fury. Never been a night like it. It seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great. - Joe Posnanski
Previously they were calling it a tendon strain, correct?
There’s not necessarily a difference in those diagnoses. Tendinitis indicates some swelling, which isn’t necessarily present in a strain, but that’s the only real difference. Now we know it’s at least a little more severe than we knew previously, is all.
I tweeted this earlier, but thought it should be shared again here.
Remember when this happened?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
I do indeed.
Because I was at that game, chilling in the left-center bleacher seats. :)
Rams, Cardinals, Bulls. Life is good.
I was at the game as well
Right under Big Mac land
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Oct 4, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
It was an incredible game. Perfect weather and all.
I had goose bumps when everyone went crazy after Garcia got the third out in the 7th.
Rams, Cardinals, Bulls. Life is good.
With Theriot starting at SS Garcia pitched a two-hit shutout.
We know that. It is what it is.
by BTown Birds fan on Oct 4, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm falling away from the camp to blame la russa for everything wrong with the world
towards he might get too much of the blame. Someone please help me.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
is it possible to be in both camps?
cause that’s how i feel
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
How about
when we win, we think he’s not all bad and probably gets too much blame. When we lose, he’s responsible for the dolphin massacre in japan…
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
Yes, something like that.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
I recently watched the documentary the cove...
it’s pretty effed up.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
YOU THINK LA RUSSA ISN'T GOING TO KILL DOLPHINS?
"No, it seems to me that Wednesday night isn’t what makes baseball great. It’s all the years you spend waiting for Wednesday night that makes baseball great."--Posnanski
by nota bene on Oct 4, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
come on over to our camp...
We’ve been waiting for you.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by SheckieZx on Oct 4, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sing that to yourself with the Three's Company theme song melody and it's even better
by BTown Birds fan on Oct 4, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
first rule of tlr fight club
save a fucking kitten.
Piss off Tony, get shipped to Canada.
by beer me on Oct 4, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That camp solely exists to
balance out the camp in the MSM that Tony La Russa is personally responsible for everything that happens with the Cardinals.
Like Brenly, Harold Reynolds, etc.
Pujols or not Pujols. That is the question.
Don't forget Jon Heyman.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Oct 4, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Checking in from Denver
My netbook clock thinks it’s still in Central time and I keep getting pumped for the game to start in a few minutes. blast
Also, Beltre 3 HR in this game..“what a beast” as his teammates are yelling
Ladies and Gentlemen
ADRIAN FUCKING BELTRE just did a Reggie Jackson.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
Have to say I feel sorry for the author and his fellow over-analyzers
90% of the time I absolutely love and respect the content generated by this thread….unfortunately at this very moment it, to me, represents the curse of knowledge. You simply know too much to actually be a fan. This is the sort of run you enjoy you like did when the team you fell in love with (for me it’s the ‘85 team) went on their run, i.e. like a kid. Forget the stats, be happy that despite your probabilistic expertise our team might go deep into October. The fact that you seem resigned to it is probably the saddest part. Think about that. We’re winning and you’re sad because the result doesn’t comport with what your analysis tells you should happen. UGH, eff that. Let’s go Hayme, let’s go Redbirds!!! Let’s Do This.
whoever said 'we' aren't enjoying 'ourselves'?
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
WCBW?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
not enough...................................
maybe he’s learning to control it
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i was going to say
“not enough elipses points”
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
you missed the weird magic that was "Art the Dart"
an SBN search might be worth your while.
Still not a werewolf.
that was a special time
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
YOU THINK WCBW CAN'T POST WITHOUT ELLIPSIS POINTS?!!!!!
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Good Grief, man!!!!!
Do you know what this means?! The world as we know it will end!
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
and don't call me TLR.
I feel like i need to shower now.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone here who's sad because the Birds are doing well despite what some analysis predicts raise your hand.
No one…? I will forever be baffled by this bizarre notion that one can’t both be into the SABR side of things and also enjoy the games and outcomes on their own merits.
by BTown Birds fan on Oct 4, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Too smart to enjoy life!
Come be idiot, have fun!
HULK SMASH
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Oct 4, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
spants discount lobotomies
release your inner moron.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
by Aranathor on Oct 4, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
wait... we were supposed to be keeping our moron on the inside.
well then. I must apologize. My moron has been on full display for about 15 months now.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
FYI
its haboobing here
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
love the present progressive
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
How often does it usually boob in a given year?
by guayzimi on Oct 4, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
less than once on average
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
I love haBOOBS!
the pictures are stunning.
Are they as disruptive as they seem they would be?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
by SheckieZx on Oct 4, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i've only ever been driving in one once.
its not that bad. its just like really dirty fog
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Secretary of the (VEB) Tyler Greene Fan Club
In addition, IHeartFreesie
See?
You’re too analysis-driven to properly enjoy the haboobery.
2011 - Year of Our Berk
by spants on Oct 4, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I can't experience pleasure if it can't be quantified.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
damn, that's funny.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
sincere
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I rec'd it.
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
good. it was very funny.
but it won’t get green.
by hangingfromatree on Oct 4, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
big, beautiful haboob.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
BBH seeks LTR
likes massive, slow strolls through the city
by prophetjohn on Oct 4, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rally haBOOBS!
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
By "You" (a poor choice) I meant lboros and those who seem to be lamenting the fact...
…despite your analysis telling you one thing about the team, the results tell you another.
reply button is your friend
Johnny Gomes could not be reached for comment
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Oct 4, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
thats a misinterpretation
its not that one cannot enjoy the team’s sucess because it seems statistically improbable, its because the team played such infuriating baseball in the regular season that many people simply lost all faith and became resigned to the fact that cardinals fans were in for a long cold winter. BUT THEN the team magically (and at this point, leading scientists still claim that that magic is the most likely contributor) made the playoffs! They were suddenly (and jarringly) relevant again, its very difficult to go from a state of utter dejection to utter joy in such a short periof of time.
But trust me, i, for one, am certainly trying.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
Please stop being so outcome-oriented and acknowledge the good fortune we had in making the postseason
The point was that we are not a super-great team, but that we were good enough to stick around while Atlanta burned.
So enjoy the ride as we play with house money and are in it to win it, and [INSERT YOUR OWN ADDITIONAL CLICHE HERE]!
Kumar: I don't know man, I lose my touch, man.
Dignan: Did you ever have a touch to lose, man?
i demand pics.
2011 Cardinals GIDPs: 169
NL Record: 2011 Cardinals, 169
ML Record: 1990 Red Sox, 174
Don't forget your hat!
http://www.mlb.com/news/wall/article.jsp?content_id=25485746
Rams, Cardinals, Bulls. Life is good.
Hey lboros!
I had given up on this team but then undid TE giving up at the command of my wife as I was too busy to donmore than watch the games and hope anyway so I am bit sure quite how negative things got here @ that point. Even now when we were down 4-0 on Sunday my wife was giving me the sane “just believe”. I am an emotional roller coaster and she is my rock and though she has much less obsession, passion, and knowledge than me she has far more faith in the Cardinals and in doing so becomes a better fan than I. So before you get too wrapped up in swamp gas, remember, “just believe”
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Oct 4, 2011 4:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The wives - GOB bless 'em. Mine has been equally supportive.
Though I’ve been on such an emotional rollercoaster this past month, the wife says “you can forget us ever moving to St. Louis if this is how you’re going to act”
Nyjer Morgan Fan Club President
If you do come to St Louis
We welcome you
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Oct 4, 2011 5:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Have a good gamethread VEB
I’m not going to join. I wasn’t there on Sunday and we won, so I’m staying away.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Viva El Birdos
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
