suck it, joe strauss
by tom s. on Sep 4, 2010 2:45 AM EDT
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Printi've been contemplating this post for a while. it's working title has been "suck it, baseball america" but joe strauss just had to be his usual obnoxious self this week, so he gets the honors.
in the past off-season, the cardinals farm system got a dangerfieldian level of respect from both local and national authorities, and even, in a fit of paternal pique last season, from dave duncan. recently, the titular "journalist" got his digs in yet again on the farm.
Agreed, the minor-league system has provided Rasmus and Garcia the last two years. But to argue Jay, Craig, T. Greene, B. Anderson & Co. make this self-sufficient for next season is insane. Simply put -- again -- the player development system is not mature enough to support a contending club despite what "third-party publications" may have boasted in 2009.
i'm not sure what third-party publications suggested that we had turned into the tampa bay rays, capable of sustaining a championship caliber team on a shoestring - if $40-50M can be called a shoestring. what i think was contended was that the farm was not nearly as bad as being portrayed in the media, as far as the media follows these things. in fact, joe strauss referred to baseball america earlier as just such a "third-party publication," and earlier noted that they trashed the st. louis system in the off-season as well.
back in february, for instance, jeff luhnow got his kicks in against keith law, after law denigrated the cards' farm system. luhnow noted the cards' farm had lots of "minor-league guys who can step in and produce, whether they be Freese, Tyler Greene or Jaime [Garcia]." (see the quote in the above linked article.) even considering a lot of luck swinging in our prospects' favor, luhnow now looks conservative in defending his farm. there's a substantial claim to be made that the cardinals had the best rookie turnout in the national league in 2010, with jaime garcia, jon jay, and david freese leading the way. the cubs, with good years from both tyler colvin and starlin castro probably make another good case for best teamwide rookie showings in the NL in 2010 -- ironically, another team ranked near the bottom of prospect ranking systems.
why joe strauss would take a look at this season, in which the remarkable rookie success was one of the only things to go right with the team, and complain about the player development system boggles the mind. his comments say more about his acuity of analysis than the cardinals' farm system.
right now, luhnow deserves some major apologies from strauss and his snide "hyperventilating prospect geek fraternity" garbage, keith law, walt jocketty, baseball america, etc., etc.
jaime garcia -- there's nothing not to like about this debut. he's a frontrunner for rookie of the year, along with jason heyward. he's a 3+ WAR pitcher in his first full year. for those of you who like more traditional stats, he is not far off the ERA title. had he not been recovering from surgery, he might have posted some even more ridiculous numbers as a rookie. the club has had to walk a very fine line in taking advantage of his performance and not abusing a still-mending arm.
to readdress strauss's above quote: "Agreed, the minor-league system has provided Rasmus and Garcia the last two years. But . . . ." hold on, there, joseph. don't glide away from that first sentence too quickly. let's rephrase that. sure, the cardinals have for two years running produced serious rookie of the year contenders. or, sure, these two players have the potential to be perennial all-stars at low cost for the cardinals.
if you're overlooking jaime garcia's performance this year, or acting like it's not something so serious that it merits a substantial kudos, then you're not paying attention. remember that jaime garcia entered the year as a contender - a contender! - for the fifth rotation spot. he will almost certainly finish the year with -- hold on to your pants -- the second best performance in the rotation. >braces for carp insta-death stare.<
we were pretty close to starting the year with rich hill in the rotation and jaime not in it at all. to go from that point to outperforming a perennial cy young candidate says that jaime is a huge talent. if he's not the best rookie in the league, he's a close second. that alone should make this year a win for jeff luhnow.
and also he should get to kick dave duncan three times in the shin, hard, for dave's snotty comments after chris duncan was traded to boston, about how there must not be anything good in the system. luhnow's system just saved your 2010 rotation, dave. you're welcome.
jon jay -- in ~250 PA's, jon jay has been worth 1.3 WAR. as with jaime garcia, this performance should be easy to grasp by non-spreadsheet types, because he has a high batting average. some of this is luck driven, given jay's longstanding high babip. still, he's clearly a talented player, and would have likely had a 2-2.5 WAR season if he'd played the full season, or even just gotten half of nick stavinoha (101 PA's, 0.0 WAR) and randy winn's PAs (127 PA's for the cards; 0.1 WAR). note that jay didn't even go north with the team from spring training, in lieu of known quantity nick stavinoha.
david freese -- worth 1.5 WAR in 270 PAs, david freese's only real flaw is that his gastrocnemius is no longer attached to his foot. strauss bellyaches that freese never put up the 15-20 HR that i guess someone once projected for him. lazy analysis like trying to account for a player's value using nothing but home run counts, especially in a shortened season, is one of the many reasons that people should disregard the traditional analysts. when untethered to a meaningful measure of value, one can prove or disprove any proposition one likes.
the truth is that david freese was in line to be a 3+ WAR third baseman over the full season. for league minimum, that would have been a tremendous benefit. even just the 1.5 WAR he provided was a huge boon to the club. there are about 20 clubs that would happily accept a free david freese right now. most clubs do not have multiple league average or better prospects jumping forth from their ranks every season.
that freese's achilles got detached is not an indictment of the club's farm system. freese was not a club-drafted player, but was a nice throw-in on the jim edmonds salary dump. still, he spent a couple years in development with luhnow and was part of the farm system.
what might have been
tyler greene - tyler was worth 0.4 WAR in 78 PAs and a smattering of appearances around the infield. he hit for a .347 wOBA. hopefully, we see more of him. he deserved better than what he got. we won't know what might have happened, had tyler been used regularly, but his 2010 was not a failure on his part. just a failure of the club to use him.
fernando salas - fernando salas had a fine relief performance for the cards in very limited innings - 20+. his ERA was 1.74, though his FIP was 4.51. still, he saw talent-free options like macdougal and others getting innings ahead of him, and was yanked on a yo-yo between clubs.
allen craig - limited to 89 PA's, he never got a chance to show much value. zips projects him to have .329 wOBA the rest of the way this season, despite a luckless performance so far, with a BABIP still dwindling at .228, despite a LD% of 22.0%. had he gotten more chances, he might have had a chance to have his luck regress toward a decent mean.
to sum up, the rookie contributions this year have been phenomenal. i challenge you to find any club that's gotten 6 WAR out of its top 3 rookies. if anything, this club has suffered this year by letting talentless roster refuse pick up far too many PA's while NOT playing its rookies sufficiently. had the rookies been played in keeping with their talents relative to other players, we would see an even higher yield of value from our farm. an unfortunate injury to david freese set back the likely accumulation of value from him.
people who labeled the cardinals' farm system as void of talent in the off-season have been proven wrong, and luhnow's braggadoccio about the quality of the system was vindicated. now, no one projects prospects and farm systems perfectly or even correctly most of the time -- if that were the case daryl jones would be starting in the outfield and samuel would be closing. there's no particular shame in having been pessimistic about the cards' farm system last season.
however, there should be some serious shame in watching the 2010 cardinals, seeing rookies outperform expectations almost across the board, and complaining that the farm system doesn't do enough to benefit the team. not giving luhnow and the farm system credit for the outstanding talent coming out of a system which was used as currency for trades in 2008-09 is just offensive.
we don't have a system like tampa or texas or baltimore filled to the brim with prospects that prospect-watchers love to adore. but it's clearly extremely well run. we've now put together several years of very strong drafts, with interesting players coming up. we're never going to run purely on one year's output of the farm system; nobody does.
but show me a team that had a better year of production from its rookies.
so, since jeff luhnow won't say it: suck it, dave duncan. suck it, keith law. suck it, baseball america. luhnow was right, and you were wrong.
and most of all, suck it, joe strauss. "it" being this "faberge egg" that i have left out of the refrigerator for the last year.
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it seems that
when prospects are evaluated, if it’s clear this player isn’t going to be a world-beater, it automatically drops their value. I think it’s very obvious there is a difference between “not a world-beater” and a AAAAer, though I think prospect rankings value those players the same – so to speak, Nick Stavinoha (AAAA) is valued similarly to David Freese (not a world-beater) and Allen Craig (has potential but status is still TBD).
Could these types of players be the new market inefficiency for someone like Billy Beane to manipulate, or am I blowing smoke out of my ass?
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
suck Dave Duncan
puhlease
while im very pleased with the prospects on the team, the lack of interest at the deadline from other teams does say something about the system.
I mean San Diego had to get involved because apparently Cleveland didnt like anyone from our system.
(that whole situation was weird).
and it cost us Ryan Ludwick
(say what you want about needing to dump money, but it could have been done in the offseason after we used his hitting for the balance of the season)
I understand the attachment to Ludwick, but...
Ludwick has an outstanding .225 / .307 / .351 / .658 line worth -.4 WAR since being traded. Granted it is driven by a low babip, and Jay’s is WAR (1.2) is driven by a high babip (.372), but still. We traded an oft injured old right fielder for a mostly effective, solid pitcher worth .3 WAR since, and placed a rookie in right who has made the transition at least palatable. I like Ludwick as much as anyone, but I think we can look back at the trade as a net gain for the club. Not to mention that the real argument should be about the difference b/t Jay and Ludwick, and Ottavino and Westbrook. That argument makes the trade even more acceptable I would think.
by ajo080s on Sep 4, 2010 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"we traded an oft injured old right fielder for"
…an even more oft injured oldER pitcher….
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
concur
Luddy (who I liked bunches) going out occasionally meant losing your third best hitter (apologies to Rasmus) five days or more. Which is more damage than losing a fourth starter.
I miss Ludwick but because Jay filled in nicely, we ARE net better.
They should make Saint DeRosa the highest ever paid clubhouse attendant next season.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
i would think the perks alone for being president, founder & CEO of the Man Stew
would be more than enough compensation
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
you idiot!
team record doesn’t mean anything. Numbers aren’t important unless you can dump them into R and run a K-mean clustering algorithm. Got it, rook?
This can go both ways.
What we know is he did. I guess we could just use WAGs for everything but I tried to stick with what we know. But, no, I can’t prove your hypothetical question.
Dick in a toaster.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Sep 4, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
there it is
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i was disappointed in this thread.
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
since when is westbrook oft-injured?
he had TJ one year and that was it….. (getting the Brad Penny treatment sort of)
’04 – 30 starts, 215.2 IP
’05 – 34 starts, 210.2 IP
’06 – 32 starts, 211.1 IP
’07 – 25 starts, 152 IP (missed 7-10 starts)
’08 – 5 starts, 34.2 (last start was May 28…)
’09 – missed whole year (TJ takes more than a year)
’10 – 27 starts, 165..2 IP
im sorry he missed 7 starts one year and had TJ surgery… that makes him oft-injured?…. also he’s one year older… holy shit im sorry noticed you said more oft-injured, older
ludwick got injured virtually every year before 2007… come on man…
lol it's like Sandra Bullock in Demolition Man
“he finally matched his meet. You really licked his ass”.
suck IT, Dave Duncan :-D
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
and no offense but I dont care for the arrogance I see on this blog all too much anymore (mostly from commenter)
I know no one give a rip but I certainly visit much less due to certain attitudes I see around here
i agree, mattyfrommo & GDM are the worst i tells ya, the worst!
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
arrogance is earned.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
I don't care for the Dutch.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Sep 4, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
It's not arrogance
When backed up with facts. It’s called “being correct”
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
by VolsnCards5 on Sep 4, 2010 9:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Grace and patience is lost in the face of unwielding ignorance
by FlimtotheFlam on Sep 4, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
ok
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Personally I prefer accurate information
over feelings of validation.
Some dude could call me a dumb mother fucker but if he gives me the correct info I really don’t care….Jack Wagon.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Sep 4, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow
I sincerely hope that you and SoonerFanTU enjoy pulling out “La Russa’s Greatest HIts” and “Dave Duncan’s Most Impressive Sound Bites” while drinking the Kool-Aid on the back porch.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Sep 4, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i forgot about that guy...
good times…
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
i wonder if anyone in the Cards have actually tried to explain to DD how important the minors are?
and how important it is not to try & change every pitcher they call up? if they have & he’s been resistant to listening to them i can’t understand why they’ve put up with it. of course i can’t understand why they put up with some of TLR’s crap either.
as far as the press, well there’s a reason they are bitter loners who take shots online & in their articles. haters gonna hate. they are scarred to death because they see how obsolete their profession has become & they are lashing out just to try & stay relevant. i doubt they have ever had someone set down with them & try to explain the minors or how advance stats even work. strauss himself has said he doesn’t understand even the most basic of saber stats, i highly doubt he’s ever even tried to lean how they work & how much better they are at showing who’s actually a good player & who’s not. i know i’ll never really understand them till one of you set down me with me & help me work them out, because that’s how i learn best. i can & do read all i can about them but they just don’t stick. if that’s one of joe’s issues i can at least understand his resistance to report them to the masses. he still doesn’t have to be an asshole all the time about it though.
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
The whole farm system rating process has always puzzled me
The process seems to be geared to how many “colbys” are you developing and is always a looking forward exercise. I think its much more important to look at the output to measure the value of the system, not the input. The Cards have done a nice job of bringing up players who weren’t on prospect lists that do well.
Further, you have Matt Holliday holding down LF for 6 more years at the cost of the Walrus. Assuming you think that Matt is being paid fairly, then this is another good outcome.
The Cards must be doing something very well in their minor league approach/coaching because a lot of no-names come up and perform very admirably.
I assume there are publications that must rate farm systems on “output” but I never see those ratings.
Next year we will probably get a year of Allen Craig at league minimum holding down RF with very nice numbers. He won’t be a star but will probably give us what Freese has given us this year. Salas will be in bullpen, maybe we get Josh Kinney back, maybe Descalso (or however you spell it) at 2b.
Nice post Tom
Just win
I think there is a little bit of "farm for farm's sake" these days.
I might be wrong here, but it seems like the minors-watching community gets a little too excited about a farm system’s talent at any given time without connecting said farm to its role and function in the organization as a whole.
The Royals have a good system right now, right? It’s doing them a lot of good. If they are ranked way ahead of the Cardinals, that’s fun for Royals fans and all and there is no reason not to be excited about it. But I care a lot more about the status of the major league team, since supporting the major league team is the main purpose of a minor league system.
The Cardinals have had too much success lately to get the top draft picks. They have also been very smart about compensating for that lately by scooping up the Cox types that fall just low enough for us to grab them. They seem to have been smart about supplemental picks and that sort of thing too.
But, our major league roster’s Big Four, if you will, are as follows; a player who was drafted in the thirteenth round (by us, we do deserve some credit for it) who turned out to be his generation’s Gehrig or Foxx or Musial or whatever, a cast off from the Blue Jays who blossomed into a total bad ass, a prospect we traded for, and a high priced free agent (Pujols, Carpenter, Wainwright, Holliday). Rasmus and Garcia, while awesome this year, aren’t quite at that level yet.
But, you only need so many uber-talented players on the team at one time to win. The more depth the better, but if the Cardinals can succeed with a middle-of-the-pack farm system, then I’ll be happy.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I agree, mattyb
While it would be wonderful to have 5 or 6 “franchise” players in the minors, the Cards have what they need to stay competitive – good prospects who won’t cost a lot. The Quality is already mainly at the major-league level – Waino, Albert, Matt, Carp, Rasmus, and Garcia. That’s a nice nucleus, and it’s pretty much of proven major-league proven quality. What the Cards need are solid players at other positions – Freese, for example, had he not been injured, and Jay/Craig. And the obvious possibilities in the minors are mainly at positions where the big club could use some help – 2nd base (Descalso, Cox), 3rd base (Carpenter, Cox), starting pitching (Miller, Lynn), along with a host of possible relievers.
how was it
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
suck it Joe Strauss
i feel better!
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
Question on Suppan
Is he now automatically a Caridnal next year and Milwaukee keeps paying him? Is he a free agent? who is paying what part of his salary next year? What rights do the Cards have with him for next season?
He’s not great, but I’d love to have him as a 6th starter at league minimum, I thought he pitched ok, just got zero run support. I think he would have been more effective if the team had ben scoring some runs for him.
Just win
I think Soup's contract is up after this year
which would make him a free agent
type A right?
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
ooo so we get the first 25 picks in next year's draft
when milwaukee apologizes and gives him another 4 year $40mil contract this offseason?
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
The Cardinals signed him on a 1 year league minimum,
as the Brewers released him. He will be a FA at the end of next year.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I can't blame him.
and also he should get to kick dave duncan three times in the shin, hard, for dave’s snotty comments after chris duncan was traded to boston, about how there must not be anything good in the system. luhnow’s system just saved your 2010 rotation, dave. you’re welcome.
I mean, they did trade his son for Julio Lugo. You would think we would have someone in our farm system that was better than Lugo. (What was greene doing then? Hurt?)
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Chris Duncan
I think it would be safe to say that no one was a bigger proponent of his on this board in 2006, 2007, 2008, and into 2009. I was thrilled with his April production. He could hit for power and draw walks. But, it became clear that his health problems caught up with him in 2009 and that he was no longer the same player. He wasn’t a MLB level player and probably wasn’t even a AAA level player. Just because he is on the roster doesn’t mean a player has big-league talent. I understand Duncan’s emotional attachment to his son, but we traded something less than a big-leaguer for Lugo.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Sep 4, 2010 10:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Perhaps he should talk to his partner in crime about that then.
Seems to me that Lugo played a LOT after coming over at the break last year, and that Tyler Greene (despite hitting and fielding well the last 5 months) can’t even get on the field. If Luhnow had his way, Greene would be on the roster as a utility guy getting spot starts. Instead we have Felipe Lopez playing that role while hitting .295 wOBA.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Yeah Lopez has pretty obviously been hurt or something
.177 .280 .262 since July 18 over 150 PAs.
Not afraid to nitpick
Or having to share the middle infield portion of the bench
with offensive stalwarts such as Aaron Miles and Brendan Ryan has rubbed off on him.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
power is out at work
I’m on standby one it comes on. Need to make sure all the networking equipment comes back up.
I’d like to give Ameren a big Suck it as well.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Stew
"The Helping Phriendly Book it seems contained the ancient secrets of eternal joy and neverending splendor. The trick was to surrender to the flow." Phish - The Lizards
by indakind on Sep 4, 2010 9:58 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
is best prepared by searing chunks of meat than slow cooking the meat in a broth/dark beer solution
Add vegetables, Cook till soft.
by FlimtotheFlam on Sep 4, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
My 3yr old grabbed at the phone
Although it is sort of a meme.
"The Helping Phriendly Book it seems contained the ancient secrets of eternal joy and neverending splendor. The trick was to surrender to the flow." Phish - The Lizards
by indakind on Sep 4, 2010 10:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Didn't mean that
I think it’s pretty clear that Strauss has had an anti-Luhnow & anti-sabre agenda since Walt’s firing. He is taking particular delight in how this year is playing out. He is a very good reporter but his bias is patently obvious when he tries his hand at analysis.
"The Helping Phriendly Book it seems contained the ancient secrets of eternal joy and neverending splendor. The trick was to surrender to the flow." Phish - The Lizards
by indakind on Sep 4, 2010 10:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
defense of duncan
When he made that quote Garcia was on the DL and couldn’t be traded. Also, that quote was more of a father’s reaction than a coach.
Strauss on the other hand is an idiot.
by ubeddie on Sep 4, 2010 10:37 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
"strauss on the other hand is an idiot"
You follow up any statement with that sentence and it would fit. “I like pickles….strauss on the other hand is an idiot.”
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Sep 4, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Heh.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
Good ole Twain.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Sep 4, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
My favorite character in Murder By Death
Fire John Mozeliak up a nice steak, or stake ( haven't decided)
well, if we had traded lugo for garcia - healthy or no
It would have been the worst trade of mozeliak’s tenure.
Duncan’s comment was not ridiculous because the farm wasn’t vacant. It was ridiculous because chris was at best a replacement value player at that point.so trading a real prospect for lugo would have been WORSE for the club than trading duncan.
The trade said less about the farm than it did about chris’s declined value.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Sep 4, 2010 11:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
don't was advocating a trade at all
rather advocating to bring someone up who can do Lugo’s job.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
No.
Duncan didn’t say they had to go and get Lugo because there was no one on the farm to do that job. He specifically answered, when asked about Chris being traded, that the Cards apparently had no one on the farm who could have gotten them Lugo. He was taking a shot.
Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!
by the red baron on Sep 4, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a really good post, tom
There’s no question that our system isn’t what it was a couple of years ago, partially due to the graduation of Rasmus and Motte, and the trades of Perez, Wallace, et al. However, I thought the negative reviews of our system were probably correct, and still do, to a degree. But you’re right. Few teams have gotten contributions from their rookies that the Cards have this year (if any!) and while we’re not well stocked in the farm, we do have our share of young players as well as some pretty good prospects on the horizon.
And as for the oft-repeated, often default criticism that the Cards had to trade Ryan Ludwick b/c our system was so weak that we couldn’t offer anyone better for Westbrook, the reality is that there’s little doubt that Shapiro simply played a game of chicken w/ Mozeliak and won. The Indians had to get rid of Westbrook lest they lose him for nothing and the Indians simply played into the Cards’ desperation for pitching. Mo bought into it (buoyed no doubt by an unwillingness to use MacLane, Lynn, or Dickson for a start or 2) and was taken to the woodshed by Shapiro and Jed Hoyer. Had Mo called Shapiro’s bluff, we could’ve had Westbrook for a mid-level prospect. Mo panicked and got beat in that trade.
by chuckb on Sep 4, 2010 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I don't completely agree with that.....
It was pretty obvious, early on, that Wallace didn’t really have a position to play in STL. They didn’t like him at 3B, or he probably wouldn’t have been moved. Either way, I like the combo of Cox/Carpenter as well as I liked Wallace. We have some good young bullpen arms…..Motte, Boggs, McClellan, Salas…..so I don’t see the loss of Perez, and graduation of Motte as that big of a downfall. We still have some talented minor league relievers, even if they are a year or two away.
I agree that we don’t have a player the caliber of Raz, but like I mentioned above, we do have a larger collection of less talented players. Cox and Carpenter. Jay and Craig. Greene. Mather if healthy. Anderson is probably on the ML team next year. And Stanley has shown some ability.
And a couple of years ago, we didn’t have a guy like Shelby in the system either. Couple him with the kid we signed away from Baylor (blanking on his name), a guy like Kelly, and the two ASU kids, I really like the pitching depth we have. Thats not even counting a guy like Lynn. Or Matias.
I think most of the current talent is 2 years away from talks of making ML appearances, but in a lot of ways, I like the current talent pool better than I did a few years ago.
And another thing to look at is the holes that need filled. A few years ago, I think we had more potential holes on the ML roster to be filled. I don’t really care if we have a good AAA OF that is ready to play, b/c we have Holliday/Raz/Jay/Craig/Skip/Mather that can all play out there. We don’t need a young 1B. I’m fine with Ryan at SS, so long as we fix 3B and 2B next year. That literally leaves 2B and 3B as positions of need. Surely between Freese, Cox, and Carpenter, if not a FA acquistion, we can improve at those spots. The rotation needs bottom end guys, and a lot of that depends on Loshe next year. This is probably the one spot that the farm isn’t going to be as helpful as it could be, but of course, they did just give us Garcia, and Boggs and KMac were starters at one time. I like the pen okay, though I wouldn’t mind adding a FA or two next year.
thanks, chuck.
I assume that the disconnect between ranking systems and outcomes may have something to do with the comparative ease of spotting A prospects compared to the challenge of figuring which B/B- prospects are going to produce and which are going to fizzle.
If a club has success with B prospects, is it because they have more depth? Better training, so that marginal prospects step up? Or maybe it just shows that some clubs are better at talent evaluation, better at finding diamonds in the rough. I’m not sure which of these it is.
I agree on the ludwick trade. I don’t know exactly what went on, but I’m reluctant to see it as an indictment of the farm.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Sep 4, 2010 11:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
...
If a club has success with B prospects, is it because they have more depth? Better training, so that marginal prospects step up? Or maybe it just shows that some clubs are better at talent evaluation, better at finding diamonds in the rough. I’m not sure which of these it is.
Or it could just be luck. We definitley shouldn’t rule out luck, even if gloating feels good.
Fire Tony La Russa
by vivaelpujols on Sep 5, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
luck is definitely a possibility.
It would be interesting to chart rookie-WAR by club and by season to see what consistency there is, and how the production relates to system rankings.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Sep 5, 2010 3:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I value Lance Lynn (who is our system's comp to who the Indians got)
more than Ludwick so I don’t agree. This whole “call Shapiro’s bluff” stuff is nonsense since Shapiro was going to get his prospect from the Padres. There was no bluff to be called. The only way Mo gets Westbrook from the Indians is by giving Lance Lynn or better, and I’m glad he gave up Ludwick instead.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 4, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You seem to know more about this than anyone else, without any more information than the rest of us have. How is that possible?
This whole "call Shapiro’s bluff" stuff is nonsense since Shapiro was going to get his prospect from the Padres.
How can you possibly know this? Were the Padres interested in Westbrook? Was there another team or five that would give up a 3 WAR outfielder to acquire a 2 WAR pitcher? HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY KNOW?
There was no bluff to be called.
Again, how do you know? I think it’s fairly obvious that two things are most likely true in respect to this trade:
- The Cardinals were not willing to take on any money in the trade.
- Our GM is not as savvy as the other two GM’s involved in the deal in terms of player valuation.
Our FO was desperate for a 4th starter, and the Indians and Padres played on that desperation. That, coupled with the fact that DeWitt has been blowing smoke up our asses all year about “adding payroll for the right player” (unless you consider that player to be Pedro Feliz) demonstrates to me that we got played.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
How good is Corey Kluber?
Am I missing the boat here, and he was some great coup for the Indians? I’m not being a smartass, but I would say he is only a slightly better take than I figured the Indians to get for Westbrook. I’m not all that in tune with it though, I wasn’t able to keep track of baseball this year until recently, for work reasons. So maybe Kluber is a top 50/100 prospect.
I think Ludwick was entered into it to make the financials work better…at least it was a factor that helped push it over the edge. I agree with you, FS, that it makes the Oswalt talk seem silly.
by Merry CRasmus on Sep 4, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I think WMT has Kluber pegged about right.
Talent wise he’s right around Lance Lynn territory.
I think this deal had more to do with financials than anything else. Which is sad. Really, really sad.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
is westbrook necesaary
if mcclellan is plugged in as the 4th SP, instead of starting hawks out of the pen or suppan from the dumpster?
even if they have to go get a reliever besides bringing salas up full time, surely the reliever doesn’t cost ludwick.
by ball in play on Sep 5, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
i couldn't agree more chuck
and that should be green
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Why do I keep getting this overwhelming feeling that
if we somehow make it into the playoffs that we’re going to win it all?
Should I seek medical help?
The team *could have been* built for a playoff team
with Carp, Waino, Garcia, nice meaty heart of the lineup and good defense…..
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Except for those five automatic outs in the lineup every night.
We need to start winning a lot of 2-1 games.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
just looked up our record in 1 run games
18-22. Hmm…I thought it was going to be terrible, but no. Not really. Most teams hover somewhere around .500
2 more wins would be nice right now
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
Now look at the reds 1 run game record.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
ooohhh...they must have dropped a few of them lately...
they were +10 or something like that at one point.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
lock this man up!
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
strauss is an idiot has a ring of truth to it, but
his comments are not completely off base. truthiness here to me is that the cards are facing a financial dilemma with apu (plus holly, carp, etc.) and it has colored everything they do. from beginning to end all roster additions thus year have been at the absolute minimum cost, whether from memphis or the dfa/waiver route. the fact that so many were from dfa/waiver route is, to me, telling re the farm. in either absolute talent or readiness, winn, miles, soup, mac-d etc were viewed as better alternatives to memphians. if the mindset is to support the core players with rookies on a consistent basis, they need more and better players. not that luhnow hasn’t done ok, but the task they have set or themselves is daunting. out drafting and developing clubs with higher draft choices year after year will be extremely difficult—especially if those clubs start investing their incomes on the field instead of their pocketbooks. the only way out is to spend more money. they had ~60M invested in continuing contracts this year and pissed it away for lack of desire to even reach last year’s payroll number. although it can be debated whether it should have been salas or mac-d on the roster at minimum cost, you cant escape the minimum cost driver in the equation.
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
in part, but its decisions about the farm that seem so contradictory
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
And "the farm" isn't making those decisions
All the farm system can do is produce players. It can’t call them up and let them play.
Fast-food breakfast
God tier:
McDonald’s, Chick-Fil-A, Panera (it’s fast, it counts)
Good tier:
White Castle (trust me), Dunkin Donuts, Jack in the Box
Shit tier:
Burger King, Sonic, Wendy’s, Subway
Panera? You mean St. Louis Bread Co.
Also, Mickey D and Subway both go in good tier. Subway because you can buy their subs at like 7am lol.
I’ve never been to Burger King or ChikfilA in the morning, and White Castle and Sonic sell breakfast? I had no idea O_o
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
by hr on Sep 4, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I call it Panera because the locals (like myself) will know what it is and so will our out-of-town guests.
But yes, it is Bread Co., despite their intentions to not call it St. Louis Bread Company anymore.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I understand
IIRC in st. louis, they still call themselves St. Louis Bread Company. Is that true anyone?
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
by hr on Sep 4, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
There may be a handful that retain the original title
but all the new ones seem to be called Panera.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? I haven't seen any Paneras yet. I'll have to pay closer attention.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Everywhere I go, people call them Panera
Actually, I’m surprised they kept the name St. Louis Bread Co in StL. I guess they expect that the regionalism will gain them more St. Louis customers or something. I also guess that they think that everybody else outside of StL hates the city enough to not buy their products if there is a St. Louis in their name.
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
by hr on Sep 4, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I used to eat to so many Bagels from Bread Co
One of my friends stole the stamper for a free bagel pack.
by FlimtotheFlam on Sep 4, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, right. All of the ones outside of the metro area are Panera.
But, as far as I know, all of the StL ones are still Bread Co. Even the recentish ones. But I don’t really pay much attention, so that may have changed.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
They were probably losing millions on signage, etc.
paying per character.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
i went to whitecastle once
and got a bag of stuff to take home
that shit stunk so bad it landed right into the trashcan at the end of the drive through – not even the fries were edible
ugh, never again
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
It's either this reaction, or absolute adoration for White Castle.
I’ve never met ANYONE that’s just like, “Eh, White Castle’s ok.”
Love or hate. There is no in between for the crave case.
Doesn't really count.
You have to get the actual restaurant preparation for the visceral reaction to trigger.
Trust me on this – it was hotly debated during my study groups prep for our Business Associations and Trusts and Estate exams. Usually while at the WHite Castle on Big Bend and Manchester.
I've never had White Castle
and at the age of 30, I figure I never will. I’m okay with that.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
It should be on your bucket list.
And depending on how your body reacts, it might be the last think you do on that bucket list.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I figure at this point
having it would be akin to someone my age just becoming a smoker, for kicks.
If it would have been around where I was as a drunk 19-21 year old, I’m sure I would have loved it, though.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
my friends last winter break
did a 2×2 double case race. a case of natty and a crave case for each team.
they were miserable the whole next day, but they’ve now got an awesome story.
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
and gets there quicker than you'd think.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Sep 4, 2010 11:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I virtually never go to BK
except when setting off on a road trip, for a couple of crossandwiches. I love those things and I don’t care who knows.
McD’s breakfast is garbage.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I do like the croissant sandwiches
but research shows that McD’s breakfast sandwiches are excellent hangover cures. Protein, carbs, starch. It’s all there.
Clearly you've never had a McGriddle...
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true.
I provisionally retract my statement until further research has been completed.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Uhhh
“Clearly you’ve never had a McGriddle… Heart Attack.
There we go.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I eat McD's breakfast about twice a month
I am satisfied with their hash browns.
by FlimtotheFlam on Sep 4, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
the cressantwich is the greatest breakfast sandwich of all time
and i’ve never been to a panorama bread co even though there is one on ever corner up here
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Tiffany's 24 hour diner in Maplewood
no, not fast food, but if you’re ever drunk at 5AM and are out (being driven by someone else, hopefully), you’ll be glad I mentioned this place and that you now know about it.
Where's that at in relation to the Jive and Wail?
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Diners are pretty much the best place for breakfast.
I wish I could remember the name of the little place we go to in South County sometimes. Tiny place, good food.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think that's it.
I wasn’t sure if I was mixing it up with the one in the city or not.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
The Eat-Rite is there on Lindbergh in Concord Village.
Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!
by the red baron on Sep 4, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
How was your garlic dippy melt earlier this week, jerk?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I HATE YOU.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I WAS AT WORK!
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Tiffany's is a total scene place with par food.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
I've been pleasantly surprised with Subway's breakfast.
Other than that, I agree with this. (Maybe bump BK up for the Crossanwiches.)
Subway loses massive points for its terribly annoying ad campaign...
“ON AN ENGLISH MUFFIN!”
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No Hardee's?
I haven’t seen a Chick-Fil-A around here (northern Chicago burbs), never walked into a White Castle, & no Jack in the Box (I’ve liked their stuff in the past). Haven’t tried Subway yet, not impressed by DD’s sandwich selection (can always go for dougnuts and bagels), and the only Wendy’s with breakfast around here is 35 minutes away. But then again, the same holds true for Hardee’s & Sonic, and I’ll still make that drive every once in a while. Panera is excellent, but bread’s my favorite food anyway.
That leaves Mickey D’s and Ray King. I’ll get the ham Croissandwiches, french toast sticks, and cini-minis, but that’s it from BK. I used to work at McDonald’s half a lifetime ago and still eat their breakfast (no to the McGriddles, they’re decent, but too wierd).
I will say that I loved Hardee’s country potatoes that they had a little while back, but with all things that I really enjoy, it goes away too fast.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
I rarely ever eat a fast food breakfast
I find that most of the local coffee and pastry shops around here (Des Moines) have fantastic sandwiches and great coffee and don’t take that much longer than some place with a drive up. One of them (Smokey Row) even has a drive up for their fresh breakfast sandwiches and locally roasted coffee brew.
Also, when I’m traveling, I tend to look for a local greasy spoon joint for breakfast. Nothing beats a couple of eggs, bacon, and hash off of a greasy griddle with 25 cent cups of coffee.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
he seems to know a lot about Amaury Marti Cazana
…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Mobile on the Run!
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Hey -- I almost guarantee you there is a diner
that has 25 cent coffee within 20 miles of where you live. It’s a loss leader — they bring you in for 25 cent coffee and then serve you $6 bacon, eggs, and toast.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i'd really like to own a diner, i think it'd be awesome if only for the people watching
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Pujols is 0 for his last 16
Hitless in Houston and hitless yesterday. I had no idea. When he starts hitting like his usual self, I bet we’d start winning again :)
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
Wasn't he player of the month in August?
And we blew. Let’s not forget that.
Sorry about reply issues below.
was he?
Well, maybe if TLR started to spit out lineups like the one from last night (ahem, without aaron miles) and Pujols begins to regress from the minislump, we can obliterate every team in our path. Mwahahaha……?
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
by hr on Sep 4, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't he player of the month in August?
And we blew. Lets not forget that.
well now it has to be done
m&m’s
God tier
Peanut Butter
Good tier
Original
Pretzel
Peanut
Shit tier
Coconut
Dark Chocolate
Crispy
I clearly need to expand my M&Ms horizons.
Then again, the only time I get them is out of the vending machine when I have to work way late. Not much variety there.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd put peanut in God tier w/peanut butter.
But other than that, I agree.
There are mint M&M’s too, which I would put in the Good tier.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I was considering that, but I erred on the side of harsher standards
just because Peanut Butter m&m’s w/ an ice cold cream soda =
Here's what you do with the peanut M&M's...
Buy a bag of Frito’s Scoops and get a bowl of peanut M&M’s…dip a Scoop in the bowl of peanut M&M’s and get a couple in the scoop.
It’s a Jai Alai of sweet and salty goodness.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
what
What do you have against Dark Chocolate?
God
Peanut
Dark Chocolate
Mini MM’s
Good
Original
Peanut Butter
Crap
Crispy (lol those are so bad)
Pretzel
Mint (disgusting)
Almond
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
by hr on Sep 4, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I find the dark chocolate cannot be consumed in mass quantities
without accumulating extreme thirst.
Too overwhelming.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently there are limited edition Wild Cherry M&M's too.
I’ve never had them, but they scream “shit tier” to me.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL cherry M&M's
those sound terrible wow
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
by hr on Sep 4, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
This reminds me of something I ate when I was in Spain...
Ham flavored Doritos.
Horrendous.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
What could go wrong there?
I love ham, I love Doritos … it can’t be that bad, right?
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
....
God:
Peanut
Almond
Dark Chocolate
Good:
Original
Mini’s
Crispy
Mint
Shit:
Pretzel
Coconut
Worse than shit:
Peanut Butter
The deliciousness of peanut butter M&M's
is incontrovertible.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
Peanut M&Ms = delicious; peanut butter M&Ms = terrible. It’s one of the great mysteries.
by peach concrete on Sep 4, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The fuck was that? Stupid SBN.
What I was trying to say is that PB M&Ms feel to me like they wanted to be Reese’s Pieces and just ended up some horrible, abortive half-life. The Chimaera version of Reese’s Pieces, if you will.
Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!
by the red baron on Sep 4, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Right.
Reese’s pieces are good.
But, Reese’s Dark Chocolate Peanut Butter Cups….yuck. (And I’m a dark chocolate fiend.)
Those are awful.
And I was so excited to try them. It was a very bad day.
Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!
by the red baron on Sep 4, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Peanut M&Ms are the only M&Ms worth eating.
All others can eat the proverbial bowl of dicks.
Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!
by the red baron on Sep 4, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Even dick flavored M&Ms?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
What do I care if they go cannibal.
That’s between them and their giant round chocolatey god.
Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!
by the red baron on Sep 4, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
i liked the crispy ones...
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
ha! i couldn't quite put my finger on it but you nailed it
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
by d-dee on Sep 4, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
liar
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
And yet Mounds and Almond Joy are delicious.
I don’t get it.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Ick
Not the taste, consistency
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
some shaved heads
i’m scaling those smaller, use “view picture” if you want them bigger
shot from afar, just realized last night how bad my telephoto is in certain conditions
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
by d-dee on Sep 4, 2010 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That first one would be a pretty cool widescreen poster if it wasn't for the grounds crew guy
and his equipment.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice picture of the Hotmaker and his tripod.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
he does love that.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Excellent shots, d-dee.
Motte looks more Amish than ever.
Here’s Jaime from last night:
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
i saw that and wow
i must comb through the 1600 pictures from last night i can’t remember if i caught a shot of the chairs flying in our bullpen and gloves out of it – sauce, boggsy and hawk
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
who're the traitors?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Got it. It's Stav.
But who is in between Anderson and K-Mac?
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn, if that's him I didn't realize he was that tall.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he can play third base!
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
there it is
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Actually, I think that might be Adam Ottavino.
Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!
by the red baron on Sep 4, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean Gagz Lite, right?
Which, by the way, totally sounds like…um, never mind.
Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!
by the red baron on Sep 4, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I like how Stav doesn't have a shaved head
It’s almost like he knows he isn’t a big leaguer.
Not afraid to nitpick
Is that Soup next to him?
Still can’t tell ’em apart.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Skip's GF was reached for comment
and confirmed that Skip needs the bat to support his “schumaker”
I'm the Albert Belle of Golf...
Elias Rankings updates.
Flippy is back to type B, but he flip-flops (appropriately) between A and B regularly. I wonder if he would be offered arbitration. I guess it would be a shot at getting him on another cheap deal and hoping he produces consistently.
Pedro Feliz is outside of Type B status. I don’t see him getting to Type B unless he goes on a tear these last 4 weeks. Not sure if we’d offer arbitration anyway. I’d like to think there would be a better option to back-up Freese (optimistic) or start.
Westbrook is way outside the Type B cutoff, but he could sneak in with 3 or 4 more quality starts.
Dennys has an outside chance at Type B status. Again, not sure if we would offer him arbitration. He definitely has under-performed this year after a pretty solid 2009.
I love those things. entertaining to watch them go up and down.
until Rumorsgiving, of course.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Lopez should get as much playing time as possible the next few weeks
If he’s type B we can offer arby and if he accepts he’ll only make about what we’re going to pay Schumaker next year anyway. If he signs somewhere else (more than likely) we’ll get a draft pick.
Good god, I would hope we wouldn’t offer Pedro Feliz arbitration. If we do, Mo should be fired on the spot.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
There is no way he walks that much
Fire Tony La Russa
by vivaelpujols on Sep 5, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Alright, don't go off on me here...
But both Harang (12.75 mil) and Arroyo (11 mil) have substantial options for next year. I don’t see the Reds exercising both of those.
Any interest at all by the Cardinals in either of those two?
I’m not a fan of either, personally. But both have had success for multiple years, i.e. it is not a fluke.
Arroyo would probably be too expensive, he’s on a 2 yr/$25 mil right now and doesn’t deserve any less than that based on his performance.
Maybe Harang would take a 1 yr/$7 or $8 mil deal to try to get his career back on track.
I guess the ultimate question is whether you would rather have Harang or Westbrook and what their respective contracts would look like.
Assuming their is interest in re-signing Westbrook.
Which I’m sure there is, considering what we gave up and how Westbrook has pitched thus far.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd go for the Harangutan.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
harang would bring down the DAR on this team to unrecoverable depths
FREE TYLER GREENE
by IHeartBoog on Sep 4, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
well said tom
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Ha Ha, Funny Joke Tony. Now For The Real Lineup, Please.
@ Ken_Rosenthal #Cardinals lineup: Miles 2B, Jay CF, Pujols 1B, Holliday LF, Stavinoha RF, Molina C, Feliz 3B, Ryan SS, Wainwright P. #Reds #MLB
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
That's a lineup that could possibly score a run today
…possibly,
'Hold my stones!'
----Always smooth----
Wainwright can hit a little bit
at least
by Merry CRasmus on Sep 4, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
with this lineup
he shouldn’t be in the 9-hole
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Did someone slip TLR a fake scouting report that
Travis Wood’s weaknesses are Jeff Suppan look-alikes?
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn it, Tony.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
a lineup card smeared with his own feces when he handed it in
would evince more sanity. Tony’s lost it.
rec
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
FUCK.
And I am going to this game.
I’ve been to seven home games this year. This will be the eighth. We’ve lost only one when I’ve been there.
i think you should boo the home team
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Are you fucking kidding me?
If you were filling out a lineup card in which you had to play your best two players while still trying to lose the game, I don’t think you could do better than this.
Is anyone under the impression that TLR laid out a $40M bet with Vegas that the Cardinals would finish with fewer than 85 wins and is doing his best to make sure that happens?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I just... don't like this team.
They’re so bad. But they shouldn’t be.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
winn for jay
Would have made this lineup awesome, and not that good awesome.
by ubeddie on Sep 4, 2010 3:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What's his reason for not starting rasmus or skip?
because travis wood is left handed? Fuck
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
by hr on Sep 4, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Wood has dominated lefties
He gets a nice shot at throwing a no hitter today.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Sep 4, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
fuck. and they did so well yesterday. i thought tony had learned
well, nice season everybody…i had fun.
FREE TYLER GREENE
so i thought i'd come to busch a little early
park comfortably and walk around a bit.. riiiiight…
the lines at all entrances are insane already..
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
by d-dee on Sep 4, 2010 1:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Apparently word of this afternoon's lineup has not spread.
by Ghostrider520 on Sep 4, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
some dude asked me about it
his reaction: great, it is the best guys so we have a chance. miles is great and stavinoha is pretty good although he’s usually not a starter
me: uuum no, there’s a reason he’s not a starter
dude: well any day is his day then
me: (i bet you do the wave too)
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
by d-dee on Sep 4, 2010 2:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Why oh why does Miles have to be hitting like .200 on groundballs that haven't left the infield?!??
Not afraid to nitpick
once he leveled out last year, he seemed to level out his splits too
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
To be fair
Is Felipe Lopez disabled and unable to walk? Because if he’s not, he should be starting at second base.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Joe Strauss is a one trick pony
Ripping on the farm is his version of “Where’s the beef”. His “Whatcha talking about Willis”. He only has one thing to say, only one thing he knows to say, and come hell or high water he’s going to say it.
he's not a unicorn!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I sold Strauss short actually
He also plays the clubhouse drama angle repeatedly. So he’s got 2 tricks.
by Merry CRasmus on Sep 4, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Goold updates
evidence for shaky head-connector?
LaRue :(
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Ok....Just remembered foobaw is on...
13-10 Illinois currently, Mizzou driving.
Game been bad or good?
Sloppy and out of synch for both teams really
But it’s pretty obvious Mizzou has a lot more talent.
Not afraid to nitpick
I don't get how American football fans can complain soccer is boring.
I forgot how much dead time these games have. And it’s still basically the scoring equivalency of a 2-2 soccer match.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Plus it's 74 degrees out with a beautiful blue sky and puffs of clouds
why in the hell should you go inside to watch a game?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
What's that stat? 15 min of actual gameplay during an NFL game?
Something around there.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not the biggest football fan in the world
But even a 2-2 soccer match is high scoring as fuck. Plus there’s literal measuring sticks of “progress” in football whereas it can feel as though absolutely nothing happened for 80% of a soccer match.
Not afraid to nitpick
But during an American football game
literally nothing is happening for 80% of the time, preconceived feelings or not.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
OH GOOD ANOTHER COMMERCIAL BREAK
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Sep 4, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Standing around yeah
But as far as the game itself goes, stuff actually happens. Even a drive that stalls out at the 40 is actual success for the defense…..kicking the ball around between the boxes is unproductive as far as creating ANY action. Football is overrated, but you said it yourself: this has been a boring game and it’s 3-2 on soccer terms which is high scoring.
Plus there’s no flopping.
Not afraid to nitpick
Flopping sucks.
But (and not to sound like a pretentious douchebag, which is next to impossible when trying to defend soccer) the scoring that doesn’t happen during a soccer match is almost as important as the scoring which does. Possession of the ball, style of play, the ebb and flow… if you never played (not to pull that card) it is hard to understand, but all of that leads up to orgasmic moments like this.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Yeah I know
The problem is that there are a lot of games that I’ve watched where they just go 5-4-1 and there aren’t even chances of scoring chances.
Not afraid to nitpick
Well those managers are ruining football.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
The good teams
only play 4-5-1 when they don’t have the ball.
4-5-1 becomes 4-3-3 with the ball. Very effective for teams like Barcelona.
Gotta have 2 hard working and fast wingers though to make it work.
I love a 4-3-2-1
I’m kind of waiting for a crazy manager that can figure out American’s style of play and get a formation together to use their skills. I hope we’re the next non-traditional formation to make a mark on the world stage…. Which won’t be for the next four years…
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
the christmas tree formation
done by Terry Venables managing England. Paul Scholes and Teddy Sheringham fit that formation really well.
Everyone else hates this sub thread right now, but not me!
I’m reading Inventing the Pyramid right now and am currently obsessed with football formations.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Instead of players taking a dives left and right, they purposely run into each other at full speed
Get it?
Seriously, if they ever managed to eliminate diving, soccer would be great.
Now rugby... there's a real sport!
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Sep 4, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I caught an Australian rules football game a couple of weeks ago.
It was pretty compelling. Much faster tempo than American football.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the most entertaining clusterfuck I've ever seen
I’m pretty sure if I knew what was going on I would have enjoyed it even more, but I was amazed at how awesome that sport is.
Not afraid to nitpick
After watching for a bit, I was able to pick out the bits that were American footballish.
After that, filling in the rest of the blanks was a bit easier. Still much different, though. I don’t think they allow forward passes at all, for ex.
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea what they're doing
but I know I love watching it.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Rugby does do the two things I dislike most about american football:
1. players play both ways and
2. have limited padding.
I’d love to see a rugby/american football hybrid.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
isn't that pretty close to aussie rules football?
You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch. -Alex Fritz
by The Continental on Sep 4, 2010 4:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Do they forward pass as much?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I like the idea of highly specialized players
I tend to be more impressed by outstanding feats in one area rather than just an overall strong athlete.
I'd like to see a game where every player on the field could actually run the length of the field.
Which is essentially what football was 75 years ago. Maybe I just need a time machine.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Not to keep this discussion going...
but the EPL is a great style of soccer for American fans to watch. It’s high talent level like the World Cup. but the Brits don’t care for flopping, either, so the acting is not nearly as much of a factor in the play compared to the WC.
If the WC was officiated only by English refs, I think Americans would have a better taste for the game.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I don't know how American football fans can complain
that BASEBALL is boring.
At least in a baseball game there’s a pitch every few seconds or so. My problem with baseball is the fucking TV coverage. I can only take so many close-up cutaways to the manager adjusting his belt or half the GM’s face obscured by the brick wall in front of the pressbox. OHAI, top half of Walt Jocketty’s head!
Seriously, after watching the NBA Playoffs last season, the FIBA championships this summer, the World Cup, and the beginning of the EPL, the only reason I watch football anymore is because I play in a high dollar fantasy football league and I’m the defending champ. That, and the fact that I get a lot of reading done during the games because of the sheer number of commercial breaks and stoppages between plays.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I do like the non-field shots
it is a view into the dugout that few in the ballpark can see, so there’s some, hm, value is not the word I’m looking for…
however, it is done so very badly that they might as well not do it at all. they’re either mindless voyeurs like FESPN or terrible directors like big FOX.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
For what it's worth,
I did hear that lefty’s are something like 17 for 175 w/ 57K’s this year.
He has a 29% GB rate
Seems it would make sense to have people who have power in the game.
Not afraid to nitpick
Stav obviously has more power than Colby.
The guy can hit home runs while kneeling.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Against Trevor Hoffman!
That guy will be in the HOF.
by Merry CRasmus on Sep 4, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
well, in the majors,
4 hits in 48 pa’s with 11 k’s (.281 OPS). No xbh and 4 BB’s.
In the minors he’s given up 5 HR in over 600 PA’s against LHP, which means colby clearly would have gone 4-4 with 2 HR’s.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
gamethread everyone
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/9/4/1668421/game-cin-stl-9-4-10
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
kudos
I see our farm system somewhere between average to a tad above average. not that bad really.
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 4, 2010 4:36 PM EDT reply actions
For such a "bad" system
our farm teams continue to do really well and we have a hell of a lot of homegrown talent on the ML roster.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
so is it organic?
/ducks
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
suck it Dave Duncan?
While I am in agreement with the overall sentiment, and much of the micro, of tom s’s post, I must object to the Dave Duncan bit.
Yes, he did say it, and yes, I think he was wrong to say it even before the performances of the above players is objectively evaluated, but…
1) as pitching coach, I think Duncan has the right to claim whatever share of credit is due to a pitching coach who sees a mending rookie pitcher have an outstanding year (I think we have to recognize that in all likelihood Duncan gave Garcia his full attention when he made the club), and,
2) Dave Duncan gets to say whatever he wants re: baseball much in the same way that Pete Townsend gets to say whatever he wants re: rock and roll.
They say sing while you slave but I just get bored
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