AAAA Players and 20 Homer Guys
by DanUpBaby on Sep 30, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
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PrintAllen Craig I'd like to convince other people about, and P.J. Walters I'm still not convinced about, but regardless of expected future performance I feel good whenever a purported AAAA guy makes good in the Major Leagues. (After wondering briefly whether this was consistent with my avowed distaste for Matt Pagnozzi I would like to remind any possible interlocutors that there's no evidence Pagz Lite is a AA player.)
Craig still looks like a possible tweener; he's not Chris Duncan in the outfield, but he's clearly uncomfortable there, and his awkward movements lack of the weird football-grace of Matt Holliday's awkward movements. But he's become less of a tweener with each passing season, thanks to his career years at Memphis. MLEs remain unimpressed; the Davenport Translations at Baseball Prospectus give him a .272/.326/.430 line at the Major League level, while Minor League Splits suggests .272/.327/.442.
But Craig has been excellent at every level, and he'd be seventh in the PCL in OPS if he had the at-bats. (I see the Royals have finally freed Kila Ka'aihue. How many AAA pitchers had to die first? While we're at it, remember that year where Calvin Pickering turned into Babe Ruth?) Craig's good enough that the Cardinals would be well-served to see whether he really is a tweener, instead of trying to guess at it.
Of course, it's hard for a team like the Cardinals to go into the 2011 season with two potential tweeners in right field, even in some kind of ideal tweener platoon, as much fun as I would have with it in Baseball Mogul, which is probably why John Mozeliak made the first move of the Hot Stove League by suggesting the Cardinals were after "two 15 to 20 homer guys." Here's hoping Mozeliak just forgot to signal that he's all about positional scarcity, too, because that sounds a lot like Allen Craig, to me.
The available 15-to-20 homer guys in free agency seem like slim pickings, unless you'd like the Cardinals to try the Adrian Beltre thing again at four times the asking price. The Cardinals are weak and cheap at second and short, and shaky and cheap at third, and none of these positions are particularly easy to fill with guys who hit home runs and also do other things, which is why Jorge Cantu and Ty Wigginton have such high hot-stove-interest:WAR ratios.
If they're looking for a guy who hits pretty well and plays bad defense—well, that's what Skip Schumaker was in 2009. If they're looking for a guy who hits poorly and plays great defense—well, that's what Brendan Ryan is doing right now. This is a difficult team to upgrade; it seems like everybody's about one win above replacement, below average but no longer low-hanging fruit.
For the second year in a row the Cardinals got awful production at third base, but this year they did everything right; they gave David Freese the job and signed Felipe Lopez as a backup plan so good that it was unsure whether Freese deserved the job at all. What could possibly go wrong?
Unless they're doing the homering at second or short, AAAA players and 20 home run guys seem to be doing the same thing; they involve minimal financial investment, offer limited upside, and still carry the risk of falling below that low threshold of production. As Schumaker proved this year, average players aren't any less likely to fall off than good players, and there's less room to fall.
I don't see any avenues for upgrade as clear as the ones after 2009 felt. Maybe that's not a bad thing, given the results.
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About to head out on the town. Found a wonderful baseball bar -Home Run Bar and Grill on Soi 31.
Owned by rabid Chicago (Sox) fan who hooted over the Cubs and tossed in a free pint of Tiger. Life is good in Bangkok, but less promising in St. Louis. Do not care to dwell on the dismal and the damned, but threads that speak optimistically of 2011 and rely on Craig, PJ and Pags lite do not exactly excite me. . . . Now Soi Cowboy, on the other hand which is tonight’s venue offers hope – Google it, CN.
As ever, thanks for the taste of home
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Craig & T. Greene
do they Mo’s “15-20 HR” guys?
Love to have Beltre, but he’ll be way too expensive.
Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: Rasmus 8, Jay/Craig 9, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, M Carpenter 5, Molina 2, T Greene 4, Ryan 6, pitcher
I wouldn't move Brendan out of short
Pitchers rely on him. He is a good defender, a good clubhouse personality, and everything TLR wants out of the SS position.
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
The defense is less important going forward
if power arms like Miller and maybe Jenkins start to arrive from the minors. However, that won’t happen until at least 2012 and probably later — perhaps never. (TINSTAAPP.)
I certainly hope Mo doesn’t do anything that bumps Boog for 2011. Being cautious about long-term commitments does seem sensible, the more so since we still don’t know how good — or bad — a hitter he is.
StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.
by StanTheManFan on Sep 30, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Who says TGreene has to play short?
He could platoon at 2B with Skippy, and be a solid back up for SS and 3B. I figure this will be his role on the team next year, provided Miles isn’t back.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
by cardzfanbub on Sep 30, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Well... Yeah, that has to be his role
Another year at Memphis is no good. Being a regular at short is also no good.
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
I heard somewhere
that Greene is out of options – thus, if true, he either has to make the big club or be traded.
Not possible......
he has one left, as he only two years with the big club.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
well, probably something that I heard Al say
that will teach me
yeah, he was added to the 40-man in winter 2008
so he has one left.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
Greene HAS TO at least platoon with Skip.
If I see Miles in there again, and not T Greene, I will cry.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
You might want to stock up on towels.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I think the future of Miles and Suppan in STL...
is highly dependent on the future of TLR with the Cards. If La Russa is back I fully expect one if not both of these two to be with the team next season.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
Barf.
You people have to stop making statements like this, I have enough problems with heartburn as it is.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I don't understand the extreme animosity towards Mighty Mouse
FWIW, last year’s stats only:
Aaron Miles
.291 .322 .328 .650
Tyler Greene
.221 .328 .327 .655
Felipe Lopez
.228 .306 .335 .641
I understand the opportunity cost argument for kids, but Milesy will not be that expensive (financially and OC) to be a bench option. Matty, I still have plenty of Tums left over from bad Izzy days, I’ll Fedex them to you.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Miles defense is terrible
and he’s getting lucky, and his numbers now are his absolute upside
greene and lopez on the other hand are/were getting unlucky and tgreene can flash some glove too and versatility while miles can’t even play the one position that he should be able to at 2B
Hey, the Cards aren't that stupid.
I hope I don’t eat those words, but I don’t believe either player has any future with the club after the end of the year.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
at least not at the beginning of the year
there will be plenty of room for them once they’re both released from the teams that signed them and tony tires of greene or someone gets injured
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
You may have the answer there
I, too, don’t believe either will be on the opening day roster. I’m most likely reading too much into Mo’s comments yesterday, but I think he means to rid the roster of such as Miles, Suppan, maybe even, dare we hope, Stavinoha. And, despite Al’s comments yesterday during the game, I don’t think we’ll see Feliz on the roster come April either.
by ArkansasTravs on Sep 30, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
depends on how desperate he is
miles, feliz, soup are all candidates for minor league deals and invites to ST
after that, …..
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
Feliz = Veteran
Al can’t help himself.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yet my sense is that Boog is constatnly in TLRs House of Dog. . . . True/untrue?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Boog should pretty much play every day going forward
His defense is so good that he could literally hit like he has all this year and still be a valuable player.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 30, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
2011 Upgrades
It seems to me that the prudent thing to do would be to offer Jake Westbrook the “Brad Penny” money over a 2 year contract with a 3rd year team option. That rounds out the rotation, leaves some good, MLB ready spot starters in Memphis (Ottavino, Walters, Kopp, Lynn, etc.), and hopefully Lohse can be a serviceable fifth starter next year for $12M. I just threw up in my mouth a little….
I don’t know where Mo thinks he’s getting two 15-20 homer guys on the market (moving Mark Hamilton to 2B? Put Aaron Miles on a steroid regimen?). The only position player upgrade I see on the market that makes sense from a baseball standpoint is Adrian Beltre, and Adrian Beltre is going to get paid more than he’s probably worth, so it doesn’t make sense from a value standpoint.
I think you go with Freese at 3B, as he seemed to be a league average player before he got hurt, and carry both Descalso and Greene as your infield backups, have Brian Anderson as your backup catcher, as he’s also a nice left handed bench bat to use for pinch hitting in certain situations.
In reality, this team underperformed this season, and yet we still have nearly every position player worth around a win, and some that should bounce back next year offensively (Molina, Ryan can’t be any worse, and Skip over a full season should be better), and some young guys who deserve a shot at being regulars beyond 2011 — Greene, Descalso, Craig, and Jay. I don’t think that this is the time to play Chicken Little, scream that the sky is falling, and then trade away Shelby Miller (who should be a top 20 prospect headed into 2011) for an aging, power hitting middle infielder like Dan Uggla.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
There are some 15-20 HR guys out there.
But that doesn’t necessarily mean the team will be better. I do believe we need some type of power/speed in this lineup, though I’m not sure where it could fit.
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
Who are the 15-20 HR guys out there that can fill a position on this team?
Dunn, Berkman, Konerko, Pena, Lee, Overbay: 6 guys — they all play 1B. We have a pretty damn good player at 1B already.
Outfielders:
Brad Hawpe — terrible defensively, should be moved to 1B
Hideki Matsui — old, terrible defensively, starting to show his age offensively.
Magglio Ordonez — old, bad defense, injury prone, expensive
Marcus Thames — I might actually be interested in him…but I imagine he stays in the AL due to his poor outfield defense.
Jayson Werth — WAY to expensive. He’s going to get a contract similar to Holliday’s last year.
Carl Crawford — Do YOU want to bid against the Yankees for any player? I sure don’t. Plus, he’s not a 15-20 HR guy anyway.
Infielders:
Eric Chavez — Hurt all the time. All the time. Over the hill as a player too.
Adrian Beltre — Going to be expensive. Really, really expensive. And I think Boston will tie him up for the next 3-4 seasons after he opts out.
Mike Lowell — way past his prime and injury prone.
J.J. Hardy — only one season over 15 homers. He’s a middle class man’s Khalil Greene. Low OBP, some power, lots of K’s. I think Tyler Greene might be just as good actually.
Seriously — where are the 15-20 homer guys who actually HELP this team?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm not convinced this team needs power as
much as it could use a .370 or .80 obp guy at the top of the order. It got old watching Albert bat with no one on base this year.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I agree 100% with you.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
But whom could we get?
In terms of free agents (list from Cot’s here), whom would you say we should target that fits the .370-.380 OBP category?
Outside of Adam Dunn, I don’t see many free agents on this list that fit our positional needs that can be the .370-.380 OBP guy.
Adios Esposito.
Adios Sarge. Say a prayer for Surf Boy...wherever he is.
Matt Carpenter
He has an excellent eye at the plate.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I would like to see the JJ experiment continue at 2 spot
or maybe in a L/R platoon with someone. That would mean that 2B should be the logical O upgrade location. I love JJ’s batting eye/plate discipline. Not a 20 hr guy, though.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
It's going to be tough to get one via FA
How about moving Rasmus to the 2 spot? .360 OBP this year and you can only expect it to improve.
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
Yes, please.
And bat Rasmus cleanup.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
who would play center?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
lohse.
(yes, i know. it’s a joke)
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
i like this idea. we played well those three or four games with holliday batting 2d
but i wonder, if holliday-pujols-rasmus…who bats 5th? Freese? Jay? Jay is probably better suited to bat 2d, and Freese is better suited to bat 6th. jay-pujols-holliday-rasmus-freese is probably the best combination of those particular players. now if jay is not our RF, i suppose things change.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I'm not sure I believe Jay's on-base ability is for real
I think Freese would be a decent number two hitter.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I think that both are like Skip in that their OBP is far too dependent on their batting average.
Freese had a .296 BA this season on the strength of a .379 BABIP. Yet, his OBP was just .361. This is due to a 7.8% walk rate. What happens when Freese’s BABIP evens out? Skip Schumaker 2010 Part II: Mr. Freese’s Falls Back to Earth. Perhaps Freese will walk more in line with his minor-league numbers as he gets more experience, but, if he doesn’t, he shouldn’t be hitting second.
Jon Jay has a big-league 7.5% walk rate. But, he has a .348 BABIP to support his .298 BA. Looking at his career numbers and his skillset, maybe he can maintain that. But, if he doesn’t, how far will his .358 OBP fall? That being said, the same can also be said of Jay as Freese. Maybe, with more big-league experience, Jay will raise his walk rate into the 9+% of his minor-league days. If he does, then he is a prime candidate for the top of the order.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
All good points.
In fact, I have to back step my case of Freese over Jay a little, because their minor league walk rates are more similar than I thought. I would still have more confidence in Freese though. His BABIPs in the minors seem a bit more consistent, his BB% seem a bit higher, and his power is way higher. LD% is higher but Fangraphs only has major league data for that and they’re both going to be less than a full season anyway.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
BR doesn't have MiLB LD stats either.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I would thing Jay's
Left handedness and speed would give him a big BABIP advantage over Freese. Maybe the diff in power is enough to offset this.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
his speed is one of the main reasons why i thought he fits better batting second than batting 6th
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Yeah...
it seems more fitting to have the speedy lefty at the top of the order and the Righty with 20+ HR in an RBI spot.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
I like both of these players.
I just think that we need to be aware of how their results came to be this season and not set expectations for them that are unfair.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think Skip will have to be our .360 OBP guy
bgh noted it below, but with a return to more of a career-average BABIP, he could be back in .350.360 OBP territory.
Adios Esposito.
Adios Sarge. Say a prayer for Surf Boy...wherever he is.
Not necessarily
He’s rocking a .354 BABIP, though I also wouldn’t expect him to strike out 32% of the time with a 75% contact rate.
Not afraid to nitpick
Drop Rasmus's hr's,
and his OBP is .320. That is, he’ll only be standing on a base for 32% of Pujols’s plate appearances.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Co-sign
100% agree.
I’d love to work a trade for Brett Gardner of the Yanks if they get Carl Crawford.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
This really comes back to,
and this is by no means a dig against Hollidome, but the only way to “protect” Albert is to have people on base in front of him. And we haven’t had that.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
OBP! OBP! OBP!
say it with me now
can I get a sig, here
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 30, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
sig
happy now?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Sep 30, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
But yes.
Why on earth do we have the best hitter on the planet and nobody on base in front of him, like, all the time? If we went that route he’d win the RBI title every year. I am very glad that we had Jay playing out of his mind this year, he was on base for Albert a lot. Even though he evened out in the end, it was a nice little boost.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Sep 30, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
there were go.
leadoff-rasmus-holliday-pujols-freese?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Yeah, but then
we sacrifice too many of Albert’s ab’s. I believe somebody did a post last year and showed that Albert could produce more from the #2 hole than anywhere else, especially if we bat the pitcher 8th.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
We should keep expectations realistic...
We’re just not going to get a .370-.380 OBP guy. There are only 14 qualified NL players who have a .370 or above OBP and they are a who’s who of great NL players and all-stars.
And if you have a .370OBP, you’re also very likely to be a very good if not great power hitter. The worst slugging percentages for those NL players who have .370+ OBP belong to guys like Utley, Hanley, Heyward, and McCann.
I agree we should get better offensive players (both OBP and slugging are needed). But it’s doubtful we’re going to get a legit +.370OBP player barring a major FA acquisition (Werth is not walking through that door) or a trade (Gardner? Willingham?).
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 30, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
need more OBP
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 30, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
How nice to pick up a decent lead off hitter. . . . How long has it been since the team's had a really good one?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
check the sig
Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: Rasmus 8, Jay/Craig 9, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, M Carpenter 5, Molina 2, T Greene 4, Ryan 6, pitcher
Perhaps you should read more carefully.
There are some 15-20 HR guys out there
(Gomes, Uribe, Hudson) that fit in what could be considered our gaps (RF, 2B).
But that doesn’t necessarily mean the team will be better.
I am saying that there are NO 15-20 HR guys that will help this team, because either they suck or will be too expensive.
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
That's what my point was initially -- where are the 15-20 homer guys that actually make sense?
O-Dog is not a 15-20 homer guy. Gomes is a douche and is also a horrific outfielder, and Uribe is old and really doesn’t have a position anymore.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Nowhere to be found, apparently.
Though Mozeliak is sure he has them. TWO of them…
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
Allen Craig?
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
Do we have strings on Lil' Dunc?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Is there a douche registry somewhere?
Is Gomes’ douchery a well-recognized fact? Maybe I am not aware of the incidents, but I could stand some public douchery as long as he contributes and is a good teammate.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Speaking of reading more carefully:
I don’t know where Mo thinks he’s getting two 15-20 homer guys on the market (moving Mark Hamilton to 2B? Put Aaron Miles on a steroid regimen?). The only position player upgrade I see on the market that makes sense from a baseball standpoint is Adrian Beltre, and Adrian Beltre is going to get paid more than he’s probably worth, so it doesn’t make sense from a value standpoint.
That’s from the initial post — why are you replying and then saying you said the same thing?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It was in the intent of
Mo shouldn’t look for a 15-20 HR guy when the only ones available don’t help the ballclub.
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
Yeah, on that list
The only player who excites me at all who we could possibly afford (or would want to) is Hardy. And there is a chance that Greene could be a similar player.
If Freese can come back and provide the kind of offense he was before (his OBP was at a nice, solid .361 when he went down) that’d help out a lot right there. He could also improve his power a little, too.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Upgrade at 2B
Skip can’t be counted on for defense or, now, offense. He’s a bench player/4th OF who is our starting 2B. Also, the team needs (NEEDS) OBP guys in front of the 3, 4, 5 hitters.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
Your assessment of Skip's defense is spot-on.
Your assessment of Skip’s offense is not. Skip has a career high LD% and a career low BABIP. That is rather unlucky. His batted ball and park-adjusted wOBA is .340, according to Statcorner. He was so unlucky at the beginning of the season that it has taken him this long to pull his number up to their current bad level. I would not mind seeing them find someone who can both hit and field at the keystone, but I don’t think we should write Schumaker off just yet.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I guess I agree with you.
If you can find a guy that can hit and field (O Hudson) at relatively low cost, do it. If not, have Schu do its best there until you can get Cox up.
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
Either way, Skip should not be a 2B
At least not an everyday 2B. He could play OF and a spell or two at 2B when needed or (thanks, TLR!) in a double switch situation. When you look at the needs to upgrade, you’ve got 2B, maybe 3B, bullpen and… do either of those (or both!) and the Cardinals are out of cash for 2011.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
A corner outfielder with a .360 SLG% is not something I want the Cards doing.
That’s 50 points lower than So Taguchi’s SLG% at his peak.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Tim Kurkjian's licking ARod's ass
screw 30 HRs, helllooooo Albert Pujols’ 40 HR streak?
you disappoint me, Kurkjiaaaaaannnnn
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Pujols's 40 HR streak
is currently at two seasons?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
eh, not streak
Only six other players have more than six 40-HR seasons.
point is, they were raining superlatives … greatest hitter ever
I rage-quit around then
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 30, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Who? A-Rod is the greatest hitter ever?
That seems rather over-the-top, even for ESPN. I mean, seriously, go look at the career stats pages for Ruth, Williams, and Bonds.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I don't know how anyone can argue with Ted Williams as the greatest hitter ever.
I just don’t.
The guy hit .388/.526/.731/1.257 at age 38 in 1958. THIRTY-EIGHT!!! If someone did that now they’d be accused of juicing.
He won the Triple Crown
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Career Lines
Ruth: .342/.474/.690 — .510 wOBA
Williams: .344/.482/.634 — .493 wOBA
Bonds: .298/.444/.607 — .439 wOBA
Obviously, Bonds is not the greatest hitter ever. What’s crazy is that both Williams and Ruth have a .600+ wOBA season!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Williams lost his three best seasons to the WAR.
If you put those seasons back in by averaging them with the previous 2 and posthumous 2 seasons that sandwich those three years, his career wOBA is .505.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
how do you lose a season to wins above replacement?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Ask Nate McClouth...
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Sep 30, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love to speculate about players' stats, assuming they weren't called to duty and put up good numbers.
Bob Feller is one of my favorites in this regard.
But the flip side of that, which I will consider to be an injury, is equally as possible. I think Williams is probably the second-greatest offensive player ever. Sadly, we’ll never know what those three years would have meant to his career line.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
What I find amazing about Ruth
is how out of his class he was. Take a look at this. The highest amount of HRs hit by a player up to the 1920 season was 27. Then Ruth came and hit 54, exactly twice that.
So, imagine a player that next season hits 108 HRs (Twice of what A-Rod and David Ortiz hit a couple of years ago).
That’s how out of his class Ruth was and stuns me the most about his career…
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
You should read this The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs
linki to the wiki but the book is worth a read
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Do we really need to have a conversation about how "home run hitting" wasn't considered important before Babe Ruth?
Nobody developed the skill to hit giant bombs because that skill wasn’t considered important to the managers at the time, until Ruth started hitting bucketfuls of homers. Teams began to see the value of this, and a scant 5-6 years later you start seeing guys like Gehrig, Foxx, Hornsby, etc. who also start hitting buckets of home runs. Prior to Ruth, everyone was a slap hitter who tried to get on base a lot.
I think he changed the thought processes of the game itself, and that’s really, really important, but I also think that comparing him to his peers is a futile exercise because there weren’t a lot of players, managers, or baseball people who thought hitting homers was an important part of the game.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
The other thing to keep in mind,
is that those old ball parks weren’t exactly hitters parks. Some of those old parks could have been called Yellowstone.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I agree, and I don't disagree that he changed the game.
Just saying it’s a factor. Out of curiosity, do you know how many (if any) were in the park? You hit a ball in the gap there, and it’s going a long way.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
They didn't record those at that time
but I’m going to guess that his fat ass didn’t have too many inside the park home runs.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Dude...I've seen the footage......
short quick steps…..Dude looked like he ran on FF all the time…lol
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
He really wasn't that big People confuse him with
John Goodman he really was an athlete fat asses rarely have 16 triple seasons
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
BTW....nice to see you back....
you didn’t post much at all during the season, but the lure of off season VEB must have drawn you back.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Thanks man I figured I would give the site a little
space during times where my loyalties were split, I like Carlos Gonzalez but probably shouldn’t be defending him here, I figured with both teams out of it now there is less chance of me saying something that causes a flareup
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
right, because flare ups never happen
around here…lol
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
yeah but when people start to take
an argument personally it really is not worth it to me to continue.
I like VEB a lot of characters here too, good to see gdm back from self imposed exile.
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
He has 16 triples because he played at the Polo Grounds
I would guess that Mickey Mantle would have had 16 ITPHR on those…because he was an athlete.
Every picture I’ve seen of Ruth, including a few from his Red Sox days, has him much pudgier than every other player in the photo. Not that you can’t be a good athlete and be pudgy, but he wasn’t doing P90X and lifting weights between games, he was eating hot dogs and drinking at the speakeasy while smoking cigars.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Maybe he's fatletic like Belliard?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Does Belliard
drink whiskey, bang call girls, and eat Nathan’s hot dogs like they’re going out of style?
I mean, it’s not like he knew this shit was bad for him, he didn’t. But to say that he was in phenomenal shape is a bit much.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Ever heard of the Coney Island Hot Dog eating championship?????
Those guys are ATHLETES!!!!! Further, I do 12oz curls on a nightly basis. I take offense to this line of thinking fourstick.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I thought for a second this was MooCow.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Yeah but he led his team in triples
including twice in Boston where he only had 380ABs he really was an all around guy, not blazing speed or anything but solid
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
The guy was no Kruk
He was a handball player and like exhibiting his athleticism any any way they would let him
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
I think his baby face makes him look fatter than he was.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I agree 100% he had a giant fat head
and a wide torso but was far from “fat”
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Lego sized?
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Sep 30, 2010 3:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Lego has a giant head
but not really fat more like Kryten’s from Red Dwarf
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
by TomCat009 on Sep 30, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice reference
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Sep 30, 2010 4:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Seriously I love the guy but his
dome has some weird planes and angles on it
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Well, even in the years Ruth led the AL
with 40+ HRs, there were guys leading the NL with 23, 27 and 21 dingers. So even when players, managers and baseball people realized the importance of hitting dingers, Ruth was hitting twice the amount everyone else was.
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
Twice as many homers is a relative term.
14 is twice as many as 7, but it’s not nearly as impressive as 50 from 25.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think the line from "The Babe" was
coach : “You shouldn’t count on hitting HRs all the time. In this league we hit ‘em where they ain’t.”
Babe: “Well, they ain’t over the fence, so I’ll just hit them there.”
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Sep 30, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It would take a man's man to swing that SOB though.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Sep 30, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
This makes me think of Don Hutson and the beauty of baseball
The greatest hitters don’t get forgotten while your told that Jerry Rice is the dominant player ever
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Sep 30, 2010 3:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I like how Ruth led to the invention of the foul pole.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
If you adjust for the changing quality of the league
Bonds is clearly the best hitter (and player) of all time.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 30, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh SBN
Williams won the Triple Crown twice, and came within a stone’s throw of winning it four times, as he led two of the categories in those years and missed the RBI title and batting title by just a handful of RBI’s and batting points in those seasons.
He missed three years of his prime due to WWII, and those would have been his age 24, 25, and 26 seasons. His OPS+ the two years prior to him leaving for war? 234 and 216. First two years back? 215 and 205. If he got those seasons back, he’s got 600+ homers, 600+ doubles, 3000 hits, 2000 runs, 2000 RBI’s, and 2400 walks. You know who else has all those milestones?
Nobody. Not Hank, not Ruth, not Willie, not Bonds. Hank is the closest, but he didn’t walk enough. In terms of the best HITTER ever? It’s not even a discussion, it’s Ted Williams. If you want to have a debate about the best overall PLAYER? That’s a different discussion. I think it’s probably Bonds, but I think Rickey Henderson deserves a lot of mention here, as well as Mays and Aaron, and maybe even Pujols before it’s all said and done.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Best hitter? Williams.
Best offensive player? Ruth.
Best overall player? That should probably be a running offseason discussion. So much to consider…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
fangraphs
163.2 total WAR
12 seasons with 8 or more WAR
9 seasons with 9 or more WAR
7 seasons with 10 or more WAR
3 seasons with 9 or more WAR
HO—-L——Y SHIT!
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 30, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You have 9 WAR twice?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Sep 30, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Seeing as Williie only got 2 MVP's,
makes me feel better for Albert. Dude put up 10.2 WAR in 62 and 63, and finished 5th and 6th. WTF?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I mean Ken Boyer was a great player,
but he had no business beating Mays in 64.
BBWAA were apparently as crazy back then as tehy are now.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
or Frank Robinson
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 30, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
it looks like they gave Boyer the MVP just on RBIs
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 30, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Age old argument that he played on a winner,
but that just doesn’t justify it. Mays and Robinson both dominated that season, and they got hosed.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
no doubt
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 30, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
could have just been racism
it was 1964, after all
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
I'd buy that
if he hadn’t already won one ten years earlier, and one year later.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm willing to give ted williams war credit
but I’m not willing to just assume you can get an adequate picture of his value by running his best seasons across the gap.
Also, it’s clearly a discussion, considering most people disagree with you. Ruth had 10 seasons with an OPS+ over 200. You have to give Williams four years with the very most war credit you could give him to match up, and I’m not willing to do that. He’s got a lower peak whether you look at the seasons that were there or you don’t.
You’re mentioning Bonds, Henderson, Mays, Aaron, and Pujols before Babe Ruth for best player ever? I can’t come up with an adequate justification for that. If you want versatile, the guy was briefly one of the best pitchers in baseball.
my bad, ruth has 11 of those
Ruth’s five best seasons by batting runs above average: 126, 119, 115, 109, 105
Ruth’s next five best: 103, 103, 102, 92, 84
Williams’s five best: 107, 90, 89, 84, 83
Give him war credit, but it seems like it would have to be better than the seasons he actually played for it to make a difference, let alone for it to not be a discussion. If you’re not going strictly for value, Ruth was among the best hitters in baseball as early as 1915 but was held back by also being an excellent pitcher. He doesn’t start accruing real hitting value until he’s 23-24.
It's so difficult to compare players from different eras
Ruth’s numbers are ridiculous in today’s context, but would they really hold up? It’s impossible to tell. Players today are much better-trained, more-refined athletes, the way the game is played and managed is completely different, the rules of play have been altered many times, there are just so many variables.
An example from another sport. Wilt Chamberlain once averaged >50 ppg in a single season! That would not be possible today, no matter how dominant the player.
Ruth was no doubt the most dominant player of his era, and probably the most dominant player of any era. Does that make him the best player ever? Maybe…
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Actually
I think a player could average 50 PPG in today’s NBA — you just have to go back to throwing up 30 more shots PER TEAM in every game, take away the 3 point line, and let Kevin Durant take the majority of those shots.
Wilt would still be a great player in today’s game (no 7 footer has ever run the floor as well as he did) but he was also a selfish egomaniac who cared only about his stats. Which is why he tried to lead the league in assists one year. Bill Simmons’ book on basketball covers this era in great detail and why guys like Wilt and Oscar Robertson were so dominant statistically — it mostly has to do with the number of shots and offensive possessions in the game relative to today’s game.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think Jordan could average something close to 50 PPG in today's NBA, with the offensive-friendly rules.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Sep 30, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are some 7 footers that could/can run the floor
Hakeem Olajuwon
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwight Howard
Kevin Garnett (prior to him falling apart)
Wilt was a phenomenal athlete, and a physical freak. But that kind of player is more prevalent these days. Now 7 footers can hang out 15-20 feet from the basket, drive, shoot and dribble.
And changing all those rules would not be today’s NBA, and then even with those changes, defensive schemes/players are too advanced for someone to average 50 ppg.
In all sports the difference in skill and athletic ability between the top players to middle-of-the-road players to bottom dwellers is much smaller today than it was even 15 years ago. There are SO many great players/athletes playing all sports. I think this is one the main reason that many individual records like OPS of 1.387 (or whatever Ruth’s record is…), 50 ppg, etc… are pretty much untouchable.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Not to mention the illegal defense and lane violation rules
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
in addition...
ruth and williams both played in eras that drew their players from smaller populations, and in eras where the incentives to pursue pro-sports were not even close to as strong as they are today…
by duncans_army on Sep 30, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
when I think of comparing Ruth’s era to that of today, I think more about the advancements in pitching than I do the differences in conditioning and ballparks. I’m certain Ruth probably never had to face a pitcher who threw a slider, splitter or cutter, and certainly not a one that could throw all three. In today’s game at least 80% of pitchers have a much broader reportoire of pitches than likely any pitchers from Ruth’s era. Most pitchers probably threw a fastball, change and curve…and maybe a knuckleball. It was likely pretty easy to set back and wait for a fastball, and even more importantly to be able to recognize it as a fastball.
Someone much smarter than me can probably speak to when the two-seamer became widely used along with the more advanced breaking pitches.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
neyer/james say that pitchers threw the 2-seam in the 20's
pitchers just didn’t know what it was, and didn’t realize “why” it was effective. They say that it wasn’t until the 50’s that it becomes well-understood (p24).
The slider wasn’t invented until the mid-30’s, although Neyer said “I can’t testify to that”, and wasn’t perfected until Bob Feller in the mid-40’s (p37). Regardless, it almost certainly wasn’t widespread, and he never had to deal with LOOGYs and closers and black pitchers (although to be fair, Albert hasn’t had to face many black pitchers either).
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
What was the In Shoot and Out Shoot that Matheson threw?
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
they say CM threw a fadeaway (screwball), overhand curve, and fastball
but the way they are described, they had similar motion- the “inshoot” was apparently a sidearm fastball that broke “down and in to a RHB”, while the fadeaway was an off-speed pitch that “broke down and away to LHB”.
later they say that a “curve was the opposite of a screwball” and define “outcurve” as a sidearm curve ball that moves away from an RHB- maybe that’s what it was?
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
Heh, interesting stuff.
Per this site, Brendan Ryan leads all shortstops in Runs Saved by a wide margin. His 26 RS lead Alexei Ramirez’s 18 and Yunel’s 17.
Also, Yadier’s D is great.
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
Ryan Zimmerman is awesome.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I would like him to play third for the Cards......
make it happen MO.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
fire up the van
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 30, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder where Brendan's Batting Average would have to be...
for him to win a Gold Glove this year…
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
Fuck the GG.....
Boog was clearly the best defensive infielder in the league this year, let alone SS.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
the flurry of errors killed it for him
he had a better chance last year
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 30, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea...
It’d be exciting if he could put a full year of good glove + decent bat…
Ozzie placed 2nd in the MVP voting with a .302 BA – .392 OBP – .775 OPS Rfield = 14, WAR = 7.1
Not saying Boog can do that, but not saying he can’t?
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
Ozzie placed 2nd because he and Jack Clark split votes.
Then, Andrew Dawson undeserving swooped in and stole the MVP for hitting 49 homers and leading the league in RBI. Do you know what Dawson’s WAR was that year? 2.7. He was as valuable as Steve Bedrosian. Eric Davis or Tony Gwinn, I could understand. But, Dawson was not deserving of the MVP.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Hitting damn near 50 HR's
and only generating 2.7 WAR is quite a feat in and of itself.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
When you are immobile in the field and don't walk (.328 OBP), it is possible.
A sub-.900 OPS when hitting that many homers shows how terrible The Hawk’s eye was. It also explains why his nickname was not “The Eagle.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Sep 30, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
HALL OF FAME.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Dude, that is SUCH a useful bit if info
when living in Chicagoland. Thanks. I never really looked at his stats.
according to fangraphs, you're wrong
its 3.7 WAR in 1987… your point is very well still valid, but i was skeptical that he could hit 49 homers with 2.7 WAR (defense was only -1.0 too)
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 30, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I was using Baseball-Reference WAR,
since it has the MVP voting results, with its WAR, in one handy, dandy chart.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
It would be awesome if Boog won a Gold Glove
He deserves it. But, it is so often tainted by offensive numbers, I wonder if he will. If he does, I would love to see an acceptance speech/conference/skit featuring Joey Bombs.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Boog is underrated
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 30, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry if this has already been rehashed but
any objective evidence that some of Boog’s initial struggles was due to a big-Mac instigated adjustments? I am not suggesting that big-Mac was at-fault only that suggestions were not a good fit.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
or his wrist
please let’s get this big mac crap out of here… he’s a hitting coach, he’s not hitting for the players
hitting coaches make little difference and big mac’s approach to public is the right one, the players don’t seem to follow
Agreed on not making mac the scapegoat
But he offered adjustments to Holiday that quite didn’t work out. i just wanted to see if that was one factor in Boog’s O struggles.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
Did you know,
Pujols is a full win above replacement better than Votto this year?
Also, Molina is t-4th in dWar and Ryan is t-7th
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
But Votto is the MVP.
Once again BABIP can suck it…..I don’t know how to normalize it, but if they both hit their average BABIP, I bet that spread is closer to 2 WAR.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Maybe not...I thought Votto's .360 BABIP
was insanely lucky, but his 4 year avg is .352. This isn’t even his best BABIP year… .360 this year and .372 last. How does a guy get that consistently lucky. Oh, and Albert is .017 points below his 10 year avg this year.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
This is his lowest LD% year of his career as well.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
He doesn't
He just smokes the ball whenever he puts in it play.
Seriously — he rarely pops the ball up or hits a weak ground ball. He squares everything up and smokes it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It's sick.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I think he's kind of a douchebag....
but I’d love to have him on my team.
This could also be because of the proximity in the clubhouse to Jonny Gomes, who I’m convinced turns everyone around him into a douchebag.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Kind of like that year where Biggio had no GIDP
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Astonishing, really...
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Sep 30, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
.352 BABIP is still likely aided by luck
That would be one of the best 5 marks of the modern era.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 30, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
look at his career though...
only 4 years, but can that be attributed to SSS?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Yes, absolutely
Votto’s true talent BABIP is most like in the .320 – .330 range.
by vivaelpujols on Oct 1, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
B-Ref WAR says so
But Fangraph WAR tells it differ’nt.
No, that wasn’t a typo.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
"Do you like me? check if yes"
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/09/westbrook-cardinals-have-mutual-interest.html
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
heh....
he won’t command Kyle Lohse money.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
This is a really nice thing to say
…The organization is definitely one that everybody knows about, that I’ve certainly heard a lot about, and now, firsthand, I’ve gotten to see that everybody was right."
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
It's always dangerous to go forming impressions based on media reports.
But, it seems like Westbrook has been all smiles since coming to St. Louis, and is happy to be here. Plus, he throws lots and lots of sinkerzzzzz.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I would be happy with Westy as our 4th starter
What are our plans with broken Penny? I’m guessing he’s gone? He was pretty solid for about 5 weeks…
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
oops, hit the wrong button
I would imagine that’s the case since he was on a one-year contract. He’ll most likely be looking for another one year “make good” contract this winter. We could re-sign him if we can’t work out something with Westbrook.
by ArkansasTravs on Sep 30, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Dear Jack Westbrook
We like you. Will you sign an affordable contract with us in the off-season?
[ ] Yes
[ ] Yeah
(Please check one)
Sincerely,
The Cardinals
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
What about Stephen Drew ? He can play 2nd but can he also play 3rd ?
There were rumors this summer he might be traded . I watched him last night against SF and he was the only Diamondback that had a spark . First inning homer and perfect in the field . I know he plays SS but maybe he can play 2nd . Just sayin
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Sep 30, 2010 10:50 AM EDT reply actions
If we were to acquire Stephen Drew, then he would be our starting SS.
.354 wOBA at SS and an above-average fiedler, to boot. That 9.7% walk rate is awesome. The question, of course, is whether this season is an outlier and whether this walking ability is a new skill. I like to think it is.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
then never mind cause i want boooog to stay . hey wait can boog play 2nd?
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Sep 30, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Can Stephen Drew play 2nd?
Is the real question. Why move a 26 Runs Saved SS out of there? Especially when your aces feel comfortable with him there?
I am sure the Walrus can play RF...
I hear Drew is just like Eckstein,
in that he’s always wanted to play second base.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
hey now
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Sep 30, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
If the net runs created plus runs saved will be greater,
then you move the no-bat, all-glove SS in favor of the good bad, good glove SS. In this case, Drew’s 2010 is probably going to be a net improvement over Ryan’s. The question, then, is whether this season is indicative of each player’s true ability. I like to think it is not for Ryan, but it very could be.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
HFS
just checked, and drew has 4.6 fWAR this year. WTF? He was below 2 fWAR at the trade deadline, IIRC.
Imagine what a .946 OPS since 01 Aug would have done for us… yeesh. I hereby nominate my 23 Jul 2010 post in which I say “greene, craig and salas for drew would be an awful trade” as the worst VEB trade deadline post of all time.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
oh yeah and he's a lead off hitter too .
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Sep 30, 2010 10:55 AM EDT reply actions
Pat the Bat
He has 18 HR right in the 15-20 range. Plus we can pay him $8 mil to be an old allen craig.
by I miss Jack Buck on Sep 30, 2010 11:21 AM EDT reply actions
Very true
We’d be stuck paying $8 million for a guy who probably starts 120 games tops and should probably be taken out in close games from the 7th inning onwards.
Adios Esposito.
Adios Sarge. Say a prayer for Surf Boy...wherever he is.
that 15-20 HR statement scares me
hopefully that is just mo talking to dumb masses….and really he means we want to pick up a couple 3 WAR players with pop that cost $6-$10 mil a year.
by I miss Jack Buck on Sep 30, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
if burrell gets picked up the year after they trade ludwick midseason, i'm not sure i can continue to be a cardinals fan
by YesWeOquendo on Sep 30, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
the giants love Burrell . They finally got a middle of the order hitter . i doubt
if they give him up especially after what he did last night .
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Sep 30, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
granted, Ludwick is probably going to be DFA'd
so there’s a reasonable chance to think he might be back next year.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
err not DFA's
but non-tendered. Same thing, for all practical purposes.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
i dont know i think Drew would solve alot of problems for us....
The question isn’t only how much he would cost us financially but what he would cost us in a trade. But if we could get him he would be a huge upgrade offensively and defensively over Skip. He would solve the leadoff issue and gives us a little more power. I’d like this lineup: Drew, Rasmus, AP, Holliday, Craig/Jay, Freese, Yadi, Boog, Pitcher
by mick311 on Sep 30, 2010 11:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
would he play 2b??
Best I can tell, he has 2 arb years left and boras as an agent, so even after the trade he won’t be that cheap. Pretty sure it would be next to impossible to make work, but he would be perfect.
by I miss Jack Buck on Sep 30, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally I like Skip
But it probably has little to do with his actual value as a player. I would mind seeing him be a uber-utility man, playing 4/5th OF and 2B when necessary.
And I wouldn’t mind having Boog play 2B if we can get someone like Drew without sacrificing too much.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
that's "wouldn't mind seeing..."
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Boog is wasted at 2B as long as Albert is at first
1 player covering 1.5 of the right side, 1 player covering 1.5 of the left side.
with the 3B question mark, I really don’t think anyone else can cover for that hole. Matt’s good but he’s not that good.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
that is a very solid point
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
why don't we just pay allen craig $400k to be a young allen craig
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
but how much do we have to pay Amaury Marti Cazana to make him a young Allen Craig?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i heard he accepts payment in plutonium and flux capacitors
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I have nothing bacon-oriented to say at this time.....
…but here is a nice meatsicle:
http://zanypickle.com/2010/07/still-hot-want-a-meatsicle/
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
OT: Ernie Hays retirement fast approaching
Great article on the P-D today Goodbye Ernie
I loved the parts about his dirty jokes and “real music”.
Only if he can learn to throw to 3rd in a run-down
Seriously though, what are the best guesses for his level of defense? As a back-up, he certainly wouldn’t need to be Yadi-like, and I would like to see his bat available off the bench in late situations, but I’ve only seen him catch one game and that was the one he blew the run-down in so….?
by ArkansasTravs on Sep 30, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
there were mitigating circumstances
in that he looked ready to soil himself trying to catch Carp, who was himself having a rough start
the thing is, as long as Pagz awes the clubhouse with his dedication to stalking Yadier Molina ("See! I even hold the glove just like him! I’m so still it’s like throwing at a brick wall! Love me! Please love me!"), Anderson will be competing with that. unless Anderson goes all JAIME GARCIA all over the vets, it will be Pagnozzi.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 30, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
also I don't really view Anderson's bat any differently than Schu's
a defensively reliable catcher to comfortably give yadi days off seems like it would be more valuable to me
by YesWeOquendo on Sep 30, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Um, a league-average bat at second and/or catcher is incredibly valuable.
Even in a back-up role.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Not sure what happened to the rest of my comment
But I meant to go on to say that it should be Anderson, unless Anderson is traded in a package with Jay for an upgrade at RF or MI. In which case, if he is traded, I’m all for a backup catcher not named Pagnozzi.
$140MM payroll?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
by prophetjohn on Sep 30, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Mo, apparently, thinks payroll will be $150mm next year
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
well, FWIW, he probably knows better than we do.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
(arcane knowledge of STL internal budgetary policy
is one area I’d be willing to defer to his wisdom in)
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
sorry d-dee
I just can’t look at this fanpost any more. maybe this weekend…….
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
a reminder to everyone following the Albertofstan calendar
Today is the last day of the month of Albert. Tomorrow begins Ozzie Ordinary Time. link
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 30, 2010 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Coolness alert!
If anybody has MLB Network, they’re showing the 1987 World Series film right now.
This is especially fun for me as an RBI Baseball nut. That Twins lineup is frightening. Gaetti, Puckett, Hrbek, Brunansky all in a row??? Sick. There really is not a bad hitter on that lineup (for RBI Baseball purposes anyway) other than the pitcher.
The Cardinals, of course, are mostly speed. But Jack Clark was bad ass that year. McGee, Pendleton, and Pena all have decent power, but not great. A real challenge team.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Jack Clark didn't play in the World Series, due to injury.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
reaction to fake tan lotion?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Which I did not actually know, since my knowledge of that team is almost entirely videogame-based
It’s so cool to finally see what that team looks like in real life.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Ozzie was so incredibly awesome that season.
And, I would suggest that there is nothing more electric than Vince Coleman getting on-base in Busch Stadium. I love how a buzz starts up when walks or singles, as everyone in the crowd is telling everyone else that he is going to steal. Then, the opposing pitcher throws over a time or four. Maybe there’s even a pitchout. Then, Vince is off to the joy of the Cardinal faithful, and he’s almost always safe. Then, the buzz starts up again. You see, Vince is going to steal third base, too, and everyone in the stadium knows this. It is so fun to watch.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Sep 30, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It is ridiculously easy to steal with Coleman in RBI Baseball
The Cardinals have several players that are capable of stealing, getting triples, and even inside-the-park homers against the comptuer (because the computer is really really dumb and takes horrible routes to certain kinds of hits). Oddly enough, it is very hard to steal third base no matter which player you try it with. I have done it maybe once or twice, with either Coleman or Ozzie (who is also very fast) and you pretty much need the pitch to be really slow and bounce to have a chance.
As I was born in 1984, I have some memories of this team, or at least a facsimile thereof; I’m not sure if I ever went to a game in 1987 as a three-year-old, but I am sure I went to some games in the late eighties. I was old enough to understand that the nineties mostly sucked.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I love the triples on swinging bunts,
where the middle infielders run away and the pitcher slowly tracks it down as Vince or Willie is rounding second and heading for third.
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 30, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Vince Coleman
109 stolen bases and 22 caught stealing. An 83.20% success rate. In his first three seasons, he had 110, 109, and 107 stolen bases. It was incredible to watch as a kid. There was an awesome piece a couple years back, I believe, that quantified Coleman’s stolen bases in SLG% context. I should try to find it and re-read it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think I vaguely remember the piece you're talking about
It is interesting to think of it in those terms, but I have some problems with it (the SLG% thing I mean). A stolen base rarely moves another runner over a base or two, or allows other runners to score. It’s a similar problem to the AVG/OBP thing, or at least somewhat. It was a really neat idea though.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
SLG% is a context-neutral stat.
It doesn’t take into account how many runners were on when a player doubled, tripled, or made an out. I found the attempt to liken a speedster to a slugger to be pretty interesting.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I found it interesting too
I just can’t remember exactly how the piece did this. Did it just treat the combination of a single plus a stolen base the same as a double or something?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I believe so.
And I also think that it counted Coleman stealing both second and third as a triple.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
It's definitely a simple and fun way to do it
But I’m guessing something like wOBA based on linear weights kind of does the same thing in a different form. It was a cool idea though.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
It was electric ON THE RADIO
Man I liked Coleman. But he just couldn’t get on base consistently.
I'm going to use this to point out that Whiteyball was Moneyball first.
If I remember correctly, the Cardinals led the NL in OBP in ’82, ’85, and ’87. The speedsters had to get on-base before they could steal.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Confirmed
coleman even had a .363 in 1987.
and ozzie smith had a .392 OBP that year, over ~700ish PA’s, mostly batting 2nd. Wow.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
Mitchell & Ness Sale
Looks like about 30% off. Still really, really expensive, but it sure does make that 1951 Musial and 1985 McGeee awfully tempting.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Whoa
The 1946 home jersey was wacky
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I mean, the red lines on the front are so much further apart than the other years on that page.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
btw
if you have any friends, colleagues, associates traveling to China. There are a lot of dead-ringer copies of M&N jerseys that can be had for under $50. I had a friend bring back 1956 Musial and Babe Ruth Red Sox jerseys and it cost me $80.
They look fantastic.
Trade Rumor
Has anyone heard the rumor that the Cards would trade Pujols to Boston for Beltre and a pitcher? I heard it from a “reliable source” who told me it won’t happen.
I'm assuming this is a joke?
Since Beltre is a free agent and Pujols is worth a collection of players.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Also, does Albert want to go there?
I don’t see him accepting a trade anywhere right now…..kind of a sign me, or I’ll play out and hit FA…….purely my speculation, though.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
That's a good point.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
hopes/dreams
offer westbrook 2yr deal (club option if he is so inclined)
if he declines, vazquez on a one-year rebound deal would be my preferred.
Biemel, Downs or Rhodes would be my preferred lefty targets.
Greene/Descalso head into year as backup MIF. let those two + skip compete for 2B w/ Greene and Daniel also getting spot starts at other places in IF. If skip fails to win ABs, dump him for what can be had.
Freese is allowed one more year to be 3B. defense + cost = one more try. I’d love Beltre, but it is not happening. Then again, none of this probably is….tear.
Jay and Craig go into next year on ML Roster I’d like to see an OBP-focused signing in the OF. Damon, Podsednik, Crisp, or DeJesus (if either are available)
Anderson over Pagz, but if i get my wishes on the above, I’d be okay with Pagz.
I really just wasted my time here, didn’t I?
Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!
Bryan Anderson vs. Matt Pagnozzi
I have a question for all to think about.
We know that Bryan Anderson has more talent than Matt Pagnozzi. Assuming Larussa comes back next year do you think it’s better off for Pagnozzi to be the back up MLB catcher?
It seems that back up catchers for the Cards over the past three years have averaged about 143 plate appearances. Assuming Yadi stays healthy I don’t see why the back up catcher next year will get much more than 143 plate appearnaces.
I think I would rather Anderson get around 400 PA at Memphis as he will be 24 and I would like him catching as much as possible and hitting as much as possible to develope. I see no reason to stall him out as a back up catcher for the Cardinals.
Larussa is not going to give Anderson pinch hit AB’s at the MLB level. We all know this they only carry 2 catchers and Larussa is paranoid about using a back up catcher as a PH.
I just would like to see Anderson develope more and I personally think he gets more PA at the minor league level. If Anderson was 27 I would say just let him be the back up as he is the better player than Paggz. Since he is still so young I would rather Paggz rot on the bench and Anderson actually get a shot at improving.
What do you think?
I've noted the whole Pagz situation above
what I haven’t mentioned my concern is that Anderson needs time to learn the pitching staff. at backup, and with plenty of time on his hands, Pagz will get that opportunity. our catchers have to do everything from block monster curveballs in the dirt to throw out steals at second to field Albert’s aggressive throws to catch Franklin’s knuckleball. not that catchers in general can’t do that, but I somehow don’t think there are many who are asked to do all that, all the time.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It seems like
a lot of this year’s (over)use of Yadi was attributed to a lack of trust in Larue. I don’t know if that’s true or not (I personally don’t think it is- I didn’t see any reason not to trust his ability as a backup) but it might show an increase in ABs for the 2011 backup catcher.
If TLR comes back,
we might as well leave Anderson in Memphis and hope he hits so we can trade him for a player that TLR might possibly use.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That is my point....
Yadi after having a good offensive season last year has pretty much reached that immortal status where he pretty much decides when he plays. He like Albert want to play EVERY DAY and Larussa apparently feels it’s perfectly fine for a catcher to play darn near 100% of the time.
Whoever the back up catcher is in STL is not going to play much at all. It is almost like the position is just not important unless Yadi happens to get hurt.
In response to WyoCardsFan, the Card were very pleased with Larue as much as I could tell and he still NEVER played. I think Yadi got hurt in 2008 which is the only reason why Larue reached his career high PA that year.
I guess it’s important to learn about the game planing and catching pitchers in bullpens and what not but basically as of right now the back up catcher in STL under a TLR/Yadi regime will just rot on the bench.
i feel like writing a limerick....topic ideas?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Ode to the Offseason
There once was a time in late fall
Mo said, “this year, I will not stall –
I’ll cut Tony, sign Jake,
Find a MIF who can rake,
And hope Craig hits more over the wall.”
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
by IHeartBoog on Sep 30, 2010 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 15 recs
Ode to the Offseason Part II
Mo thought the young guys should play
So Descalso and Greene got to stay
But not Soup and Miles
(VEB was all smiles)
The Proven Veteran™ era was passe.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
by IHeartBoog on Sep 30, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
I hope that limericks find their way into your briefs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
heh that would be awesome
Throughout the summer and into the fall
Plaintiff would miss work and never would call
The employer got mad
So it fired the lad
But plaintiff’s race played no role at all.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
by IHeartBoog on Sep 30, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
proveyness!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
were can i find pagnozzi's defensive statistics in the minors?
i’ve heard that he wasn’t good defensively or at least great and I would like to know where these people find these stats
Go look at how freely baserunners steal on him.
Or, simply watch him for a few series and notice how he can’t really shift laterally to block balls in the dirt.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yes but actual stats?
not saying i doubt it, i just want the stats for myself….
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 30, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
MinorLeagueSplits.com had defensive stats, but the site has been taken down for some reason.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
oh no.
Anyone know why?
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
here's the domain owner said
I’ve taken the site down for the time being. I will continue to collect data in 2011. Email with inquiries.
so it just sounds like he is taking a break i guess im not really sure why he needs to take it down since he doesn’t need to update it
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 30, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Anderson seems to be a bit quicker/move laterally better than Pagnozzi...
Pagnozzi seems to receive the ball better than Anderson.
That is all I get from watching them.
more of how he calls a game
vs. stat line stuff like throwing out runners and passed balls.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
"Over" spoof
Never heard the song Over – lyrics go to this beat (read the lyrics in the same way the song is sung)
There are way too many rookies here right now,
That I didn’t know last year, who the fuck are y’all,
I swear it feels like the last few years,
Mo hasn’t had my back,
Cause I just can’t remember them all,
What is he doing, what is he doing?
Oh yeah that’s right, I’m TLR
I’m TLR
I’m in control right now, mayne
And its gonna be like this till I’m over, till I’m over
And I’m far from over,
Alright, Miles is on me, with his stats shrinking
Never pick the rookies, what the fuck is he thinking?
Making sure that this rookie boat will start sinking,
And to start it off, Craig, cause he’s stinking
I shouldn’t caved, tell me how I’m how I’m getting Winn,
He’s past his prime, passing him up would be a sin,
I could teach Winn how to speak my language and be my own,
I swear these vets are like the sweetest things I’ve ever known,
Bout to go Thriller Mike Jackson on these rookies,
All’s I need is to be fucking GM and a list (of),
Old free agents, stats with fissures,
Did it over three months, couldn’t happen any slower,
Ya’ll like rookies? Well fuck, i disagree here,
Point the biggest skeptic, and I’ll make him a believer,
It wouldn’t be the first time I done it, throwing soup,
When I should throwing [insert MLB pitcher here], bitch, I run it (Ah)
That’s all folks….
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 30, 2010 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Stan!!!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 30, 2010 5:57 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
such a nice picture
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
Descalso having some extra time with Secret Weapon
(conversion to third base???)
- Fox Sports Midwest Fox_Sports_MW #stlcards Lineup—Skip 4, Craig 9, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, Rasmus 8, Feliz 5, Pagnozzi 2, Ryan 6, Carp 1 about 1 hour ago via Twitter for iPhone
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Wierd....
I feel like I actually accomplished something at work today…strange feeling.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Maybe so, but at least
you’ll never see me make the mistake of making a burger without fucking bacon.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Sep 30, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hope you are feeling better today
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.
Charles M. Schulz
I am..thanks.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
the mime-cadavers will be here for all of us, sooner or later
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i suppose i should be putting bacon on my burgers, then
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Did anybody ever figure out what the hell that was about,
besides scaring children?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
those were just scouts the other night
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 30, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
No talk of Wainwright Vs Jack Clark?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
golf or boxing?
"I'm not aware of what I'm doing. It's only after a get acquainted period that I see what I've been about. I've no fears about making changes for the painting has a life of its own." -Jackson Pollock
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 30, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The Bloodied Hawk will be joining The Cat for pre-game
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it's like it never happened
apparently first time for an overnight stay in hospital and/or stitches
lisp!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and root canal
he hates dentists
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
apparently he should've gone with Anderson's call
see
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
(Joe Mather in the background. calm yourselves.)
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
(is he... posing? pensively? weird.)
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
tough hockey family
apparently his cousin was there for the first time at a baseball game
and she texted his dad asking if Blake was coming back into the game
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
liquid diet
lost six pounds
he misses the ‘pen, so he’s going to hang out.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
saw it, and then he hit the ground and he didn't know why
and then the mouth full of blood
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
CARP DOESN'T LIKE IT WHEN YOU'RE LATE
just sayin’.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
since i'm about to head out, here's a LIVE STREAM for the game
can someone please repost this in the gamethread come gametime
ST click-on link here
ST Channel is Sportzone 400k ST
ST diy:
st://A0QCgpwEdTwDPAaCoAHIgBYrZkB1Ujl
buMo1IEsMYDM1ihcJU3BvcnR6b25limEAikEJU3BvcnR6b25liqIFU3BvcnQ=
- stream is unmonitored
enjoy
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
"I still don’t understand what commercial is better than having me on tv" – Chris Carpenter
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
2011 infield
Statistics lie, but you have to deal with them. Ryan and Schumaker actually had years not unlike 2009. BA was down, but RBI and Runs were higher and lower but not, overall, very different.
The problem with stats is that in every important statistical way, the Cards were good enough to be in the playoffs. Except one, of course, wins.
The quality lacking, perhaps, was earnest desire to win. When they were aroused, they were very, very good. Too often, though, they were boring and mediocre. TLR has suppressed emotions in his clubhouse because players are afraid he will bench them if they show disappointment. Carp is an exception, and Carp is a winner. Waino is an exception, who won’t simply take anything but winning as the expected outcome. But so many of the other players were signed on to express a mature presence in the clubhouse and on the field. Too many.
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