Cards Crumble
BP's analysis of the Cardinals' downfall. Behind the firewall; well worth a read for subscribers. Money quote: "It should not be all that surprising that a team with so much working against it has struggled so much recently. What should be surprising is that they managed to look like a legitimate contender for half of the season."
over 1 year ago
lboros
246 comments
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Comments
It All Started with Tastee...
When his ankles went crunch, crunch, crunch, the inadequate substrate of the Cards roster, built with a veneer of greatness (Pujols, Holiday, Carp, Wainwright), was exposed for what it was: cheap Chinese drywall which has held up fine in some places (Jay, Garcia, Westie), barely in udders (Boog, Skip, Moolina), and fell apart in tatters in still udders (Flop, Louse, Hawk, Feliz, Winn, Soup, etc.). There were simply not enough solid foundation to support the rest of the structure, and our current sinkhole of stinkiness is a result. Add in the fact that the disappointment has completely permeated the team to such a point that even Flop managed to get himself kicked off the team, and, well, u get the idea. instead of a glorious championship-laden multi-leveled cake we ended up with a steaming moo muffin the likes of which the rest of the division churns out on a regular basis. Apart from our start players we didn’t get enough from our supporting players; and our young players do not have enough talent cowlectively to bail out the Big Birds. A tremendous slice of luck can hide all this, among udder things, but in addition to all this was simply pure bad luck which made everything worse. A perfect storm? Perhaps. But everyone knows u can’t patch up yer place during a storm and expect not to get all wet and stinky.
Let’s hope the FO sees this year for what it was, and does what needs to be done to put our organization back on firmer footings for 2011. Some MooCow suggestions, you ask? Well:
1. Install Holliday/Rasmus/Jay as our permanent outfield and don’t fart around with it. These 3 should be playing 150+ games out there together, barring injury, preferably with a 4th OF who can play all 4 positions adequately.
2. Sign Westie and keep a Wainy/Carp/Garcia/Westie rotation, with Louse bringing up the rear unless one of the Baby Birds knocks him out. Soup was an emergency plan that we can do without next year, hopefully.
3. Reverse Motte & Franklin. Franklin had an alright year this year but we have to look to the future for our closer, and we can;t afford to go out and get one. So, from day 1 make Motte the closer and Franklin the set-up guy, establish that from first day of ST. KMac can also set-up. Denny’s is just about gone, so we’ll need to find a LOOGY, but they are easier and cheaper to find than a closer.
4. If we’re going to keep Boog at Short then we need to upgrade Second base. I say let Delasco and Skip fight it out in ST, and give the victor the starting job, or platoon if necessary. Skip didn’t have a bad year, but it is hard to carry 2 offensively-udder performing MIs unless they are both exceptional defenders.
5. We have got to solve the 3B problem. Tastee is the man for now, but he has to prove his durability. Groom Lil’ Carp for the next level and give him every opportunity to moove up. This is one place where we will probably have to go outside the organization for the mooment, at least until we figure out what to do with Cox (inset bad joke here). We need 150+ solid games from 800+ OPS third baseman; if its Tastee, then great. If not, then we need to establish one somecow.
6. Dead wood: get rid of it. No moar Winns, Felizeses, Flops, Mileses, Stavs, or older players on their last legs. I’d rather have young, hungry players dying to earn their way into the starting roles, supplemented by good-value vets who can play their positions professionally and take their roles seriously.
7. Give Moolina some rest; let Anderson back him up and give him 30+ starts. 130 games is the max Moolina should start, IMO, and don’t let him go long stretches without full rest (no PH, no coming in after inning 7). Moolina is a great catcher, but he is no iron man, nor is he Joe Mauer (who is also breaking down). I think Anderson is an adequate back-up with some decent pop in his bat, and as he matures he should improve his D and pitch cowmand.
8. Improve team speed over all. Too many double plays, not enough steals or hit-and-runs, not enough first to thirds. This team overall is very sluggish and is unable to take advantage of extra-base opportunities, IMO. Someone with stats back this up, please…
I guess that’s it for now. No need to take the big axe to the team when judicious pruning will do. Let’s hope for a solid last 2 weeks and a mooch better 2011 season!
:=8)
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Sep 22, 2010 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 15 recs
Nice points by TMC.
I wouldn’t save the Descalso audition wait until ST, it should start now. There is no reason to put off the inevitable, Skip’s just not good enough to play. PH-bench player maybe, but not starting 2B. Actually, minus a real 3B, we have next year’s team here except for Gagnozzi, whom shouldn’t be. This is providing that Descalso can hold down 2B.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Sep 22, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
descalos in AAA
hit about as well as skip in MLB. his MLE based on this season is a .247/.300/.349/.649
since the ASB, skip is .288/.352/.387/.738
i’m not sure what’s wrong with skip besides his batted ball luck the first half of this season. he brought his wOBA up to .316 after an abysmal first half, but if he had his typical luck on batted balls all year, he would have rolled into play today at a solid .342. that sounds like an MLB 2B to me
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
by prophetjohn on Sep 22, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
My description of Skip
positives – usually a .300 hitter, great arm for a second baseman, good teammate
negatives – little power (i.e., mainly a singles hitter), little speed (i.e., stolen bases), bad defensively at second base (excluding the arm)
overall, I think the Cards need to do better, especially if they commit to a light-hitting Ryan as their shortstop
actually skip WAS a heavy doubles hitter
so his power is not terrible
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 22, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll disagree somewhat here (though I know you said WAS)
Skip had 22 doubles (and a total of 35 EBHs with 5 triples and 8 homers!!) in 153 games in 2008, 34 doubles (39 EBHs) in 153 games last year, and 18 doubles (24 EBHs) in 127 games this year. So he showed some power last year but little this year – doesn’t seem to be much more development possible here. Skip is far from the worst second baseman the Cards have had, but a pennant-winning team needs to do better at that position, given the relatively weak defensive-oriented hitters elsewhere in the lineup.
isn't his only job to get on base?
he was supposed to lock in as the lead-off man.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
In some ways, Yadi2
But it seems to me a strangely constructed team with non-power hitters at short, catcher, second, and (with Jay) in right (and that even assumes Freese comes back and does well at third). I don’t think the Cards will (or should) replace Ryan or Molina. Thus, either second or right (or both) needs a power upgrade. That’s my bottom line. So, either sign a power-hitting outfielder (and trade? Jay and Craig) or a better second baseman. Given the defensive difference between the current incumbents at second and right, I favor finding a better second baseman.
third was supposed to be the power.
it was supposed to come from
1B
LF
CF
3B
(RF)
the other half of the lineup gets on base a lot.
that was the plan. we’ve watched that actually work. but if lineup construction puts all the weak hitters together AND baserunning becomes this black hole of shamefully bad suck —
roster management and lineup construction go hand-in-hand. some of these guys can’t be evaluated properly because they weren’t put in roles that maximized their abilities.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm not sure what you mean by "bad ball hitter."
Comparing Skip to Pablo Sandoval is a bit off-base.
For his career, Sandoval has swung at 44% of the pitches he has seen outside the strike zone. Skip has swung at 28.7% of the pitches he has seen outside the zone in his career. This season, Sandoval has swung at 44.4% of the balls he has seen outside the zone while Skip has swung at 31.9%. Skip has swung at more non-strikes this season, to be sure, but, it seems to be working as Skip has posted a career high LD%. He has been unlucky in that his BABIP is 25 points below his career average despite this career high LD rate. Sandoval, on the other hand, has a career-low LD rate of 16.4% and a very, very low .288 BABIP when compared to his career average of .324. (Sandoval posted BABIP of .350 and .356 in each of the last two seasons.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
And if Descalso can actually play a good 2B?
Skip has the range of a ship’s anchor.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Sep 22, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not considered a defensive whizz but all i've heard is that he's adequate at 2B
he’s almost certainly a fair bit better than Skip. I’d say they’re probably similar value players now, though Descalso is arguably more of an every day choice as his platoon split isn’t as extreme as Skips (which, one could argue, is a good or bad thing).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 22, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Total Zone likes Descalso
He’s got the arm to turn double plays over pretty well too.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I agree with TMC
I had high hopes for the Cards,but somethings really hurt especially the closer position some serious changes need to be made in the infield for them to prevail
On further thought it’s too bad the Cards could’nt do what Philly did in getting Halladay and Oswalt either one or both would have helped
could never have happened
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
I'm not reading all of that.
Cardinals 2010 memorial sig. Never Forget.
by The Continental on Sep 22, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
OK, I read it.
Thanks for using restraint on the moo puns.
Also, yes to pretty much all of that.
Cardinals 2010 memorial sig. Never Forget.
by The Continental on Sep 22, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
It'll never happen
Makes way too much sense.
by thepainguy on Sep 22, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously
MacDougal makes as little sense to be on the roster right now as anybody. He’s terrible and we’re out of the race. Also, if there is one thing our farm has produced it’s right handed relievers. Why keep him on the team? Is somebody in the organization doing him a personal favor or something?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
5th starter next year
Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?
by jd is legend on Sep 22, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
use your screenname to your advantage
and post a blank response….
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 22, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I've had about enough of this
if it happens, you die!
Fire John Mozeliak up a nice steak, or stake ( haven't decided)
aw
Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?
by jd is legend on Sep 22, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
He should come out of the bullpen with a white flag and plant it next to him on the mound.
Cardinals 2010 memorial sig. Never Forget.
by The Continental on Sep 22, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Obviously, MacDougal was standing sideways so MooCow couldn't see him.
Give him a KFC gift card as a lovely parting gift.
Albert has the advantage of being ridiculous - FredbirdisaDork
by TBender on Sep 22, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oh hell yeah
I really, really can’t stand Macdougall.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 22, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And sadly he's down the list of "why is this guy on the team"?
#1. Stavinoha—-the guy is just terrible, can’t play defense, doesn’t have much power and swings at 57% of the balls thrown in his direction when he is standing at the plate.
#2. Miles—-no talent, no purpose, gonna be hitting .260 wOBA craptacular player, but at least he can fake playing almost mediocre defense unlike Stav.
#3. Feliz—-The one player in the big league that’s a worse hitter than Miles.
#4. Suppan—-the Brewers cut him. The Brewers. The 27th worst pitching staff in the big league Brewers. He was an emergency starter I get that, now that we have 5 guys who are starting, why is he here?
#5. MacDougal—-at least he throws hard?
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Sep 22, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Fuck I forgot #1
#1. Matt Pagnozzi. Not a AA player.
Move everyone else down accordingly.
Not afraid to nitpick
gags
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
lesson learned
any team with both Stav and Miles on it will have difficulty making the playoffs. add Feliz, and it’s a near impossibility. and no one should ever have to deal with Suppan being a part of their team’s starting rotation. it just screams BAD IDEA
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd gratuitousuly
The management of this team is looking horrible.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 22, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you've got the right main idea, MooCow
This isn’t a terrible team, it just feels like one right now because Murphy’s law decided 2007 wasn’t enough punishment for our awesome end to 2006 (I think Murphy is making the argument that 2007 was of our own making, whereas there is far more bad luck involved this year).
We don’t need to blow up the team or make huge sweeping changes, in my opinion. The Stars and Scrubs® approach obviously has flaws, but it also has the advantage that our core is still really good. The front office just needs to be sensible.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
once you get past the shock value
cows make a lot of sense
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 22, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
you have the right ideas but
somehow i suspect that if you ever made assistant gm, you’d put cows on the bat..
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
I disagree with point #6
I’m fine with arguing that we might have had a little “too much” junk this year, but most of that was the result of injuries, and not having the money and/or players to go acquire solid replacements. Or, simply choosing not to, b/c we thought Freese was coming back.
There has been plenty of young talent on the roster this year. Raz is only in his second year. Boog is still fairly young. Jay and Craig have seen considerable time. Freese was our starting 3B. Anderson/Pagz have both seen time. Greene has been up and down. Garcia has been in the rotation all year. Salas has helped out quite a bit. Motte is still pretty young. Hawk. I mean, just HOW much mid-level young talent can you throw on a roster, and expect it be consistent?
You also throw Flop and Stavi in there. Flop had a crappy year, but he is not a scrub, not old, and certainly not on his last leg. Stavi, I can see some people’s point on him, but his role at the beginning of the year was 25th man, righthanded pinch hitter off the bench. I still contend that if his role had been that all season, he’d have been fine.
I’m not sure why people think you can just stick your 4 best, non-starter minor leaguers on your bench, and call it a day. It stunts development in some cases. It leaves you no depth b/c ALL of your minor league talent is already at the ML level, and you start players “clocks” unnecessarily early in some cases. You just about have to have 2 bench guys, IMO, that are simply that, older bench guys. That doesn’t mean it has to be Miles and Winn, but it also doesn’t mean sticking Decalso and whomever there, either.
And this is a year to year strategy. Next season may be different. Guys like Jay, Garcia, and a healthy Freese are almost certainly ML players next year. Greene and Craig probably got the last bit of experience they needed this year, and need to try the ML level. Mather should be recovered now, and if healthy, is probably right on par with Craig. So next year, I could see that. If we don’t sign somebody, Craig or Mather just about have to be on the roster to spell Jay. Unless there is something going on I don’t know about, I’m ready to let Greene be the utility guy next year. Same with Anderson (hopefully) or Pagz. That could still possibly leave one, maybe two bench spots open. I see no reason to fill those spots with Decalso or Hamilton. Probably a good spot for Stavi. Or another older, veteran bench OF.
poor randy winn. he gets the short end of the stick everytime
guys like winn are exactly the kind of 4th/5th OF, veteran presence type people we want to offset the youngsters. the rest – feliz, miles, soup, macdougal: VERY VERY BAD. but i do hate when winn gets lumped in there. he has performed probably exactly to expectations.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
I agree
I’d have no problems with Winn being our 4/5 OF next year. He and Craig, or he and Mather. And actually, that is one position I might not care if he go young, and carry Jay, Craig, AND Mather next year. Mather and Craig can both backup 1B, and should both be able to play 3B in a pinch. That allows Tony the flexibility he likes.
I don’t have a problem with MacDougal staying on. He was pretty good once, and appears to have good stuff. I guess you could argue that if Duncan hasn’t helped him yet, he probably cannot, but that is a pretty low risk move. He hasn’t pitched many, if any, high leverage situations, and he can eat innings if necessary. Don’t forget, with the possibility of shutting down Garcia, we don’t have much left if a reliever were to get hurt, or another starter were to go down. What is the problem with leaving Mac out there for a few more weeks?
Macdougal belongs no where near this team next year.
He’s pitched 14 innings since he’s been up, and managed to be worth -.4 WAR in that little bit of time. He has no control, and needs to hang up his cleats.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Next year?
I agree.
I just think he was worth the chance earlier this year, and he is worth keeping around this year for insurance. It isn’t like we have a bunch of young arms up, that need the experience. Salas would be the only one you might put in that category, so Mac isn’t really “stealing” innings.
He was the definition of dumpster diving this year....
I’m not saying go all Lopez on him right now, but I certainly don’t want to see him in the BOB next year.
Oh, and I would put Samuel or Sanchez (Flash cards needed) ahead of him for the rest of the year.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Sanchez
but he’s better served closing in Memphis. He hasn’t dominated in AAA yet and tbh I’d rather see him stay in the minors for another 3 months at least. He’s young enough to improve some more, and that’s what we want to see.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 22, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just talking about letting
him throw up here for the rest of the year over mac.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Yep
I’m glad this is becoming a more common observation in VEB! He’s actually hit well this year, and is still only 2 seasons removed from a 4 WAR year, and one year from being basically an average corner outfielder (with horrible BABIP luck). I’d be fine with having him for another year, except for his age, apparently badly declining glove, and the fact we’ve got a bunch of fringey left-handed guys behind Rasmus (Jay, also Chambers and possibly Henley) who’ll be ready for playing time this year, so I don’t see a need for him. But he did and OK job this year.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 22, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The only reason I don't want him back next year
is that we’ve already got two left handed bats in the outfield and we really need a reserve that bats right handed — especially with TLR as the manager. Winn simply can’t hit from the right side any more for whatever reason. Better to have Mather or Craig as the 4th OF, and with Jay we don’t need a guy who can play CF either.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I just don't think Winn is worth signing
just don’t need him
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I was against bringing him on, and keeping him on, the roster because he is redundant.
We have two lefthanded hitting outfielders with higher upside for the organization than Winn. When we initially signed Winn, we sent Jay to AAA. If Winn could hit righthanded at all, he would be more useful. Alas, he can’t.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Flop Not on Last Legs, but....
…he was covered udder the ‘plays his position professionally’ – not being late so often that he earns getting kicked off the team. If Flop had Miles’ attitude and Grit he’d have taken second base a long time ago, but he is a wastrel and lazy and we don;t need folks like that on our team. if we expect to achieve we need folks who expect to perform – heck even those who try and come up empty are preferable to those who take their roster spot for granted. This is not the first time Flop has had this issue crop up in his career, not even the first time here. I cowpletely udderstand why TLR would prefer a Miles to a Flop overall, even with the talent disparity.
As for stav, I simply prefer Craig Allen Alan Craig Greg, etc… and Mather over him on the roster. They have moore upside and from what I have seen play the field better, and are moore flexible. Greene can back up SS, second, and 3rd, but he needs to establish that he is ready to play here and now – heck, he cud even beat out Boog if he pushes himself.
I would like to see Craig etc back up Pujols and Mather back up third and the corner OF spots; he cud also be a prime PH off the bench. These guys simply offer moore than Stav, IMO.
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
Stavinoha SUCKS
not an MLB player
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Stav's sole saving grace this season was that he had an option left.
They could ferry his ass back and forth to and from Memphis every 10 days, and it wouldn’t cost them anything other than the plane tickets. He’s out of options now, though, if I recall correctly, so I’d be amazed if he’s on the roster this year.
So, you're saying, do nothing, basically?
other than re-sign Westbrook?
That’s a lot of letters to say that :-). You’ve been taking lessons from fourstick.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 22, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
i read it like this:
don’t be dumb. don’t spend money on expensive free agents when internal options are available. cut the dead weight bullshit and let the internal options compete and win starting jobs in spring training. give motte the closer job but keep franklin on to set up with mcclellan and sign a new LOOGY. the end.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 22, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep....
…but I did it with cow puns…
;=8)
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Sep 22, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well I broadly agree, I have to say
I’d add another covering option at 2B/3B, a Lopez-type would be ideal (obviously he’s not going to be back), or more realistically someone like Brandon Inge or even Joe Crede on a near-minimum deal to back up 3B for the couple of months Freese is likely to be out and Carpenter is learning the ropes at AAA.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 22, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
the move you describe is going to be the biggest one of the offseason imo
the cardinals HAVE to find someone who can actually put up an >.800 OPS in the six hole. that spot in the lineup was just a pileful of suck after freese went down.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 22, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
he sucks at defense
but is above average at offense. wouldn’t just say he sucks…
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
alright but he's not very good
and we complained about lopez’s D, wonder what we’d think of wigginton/…
worth -0.8 WAR last year and just 0.6 WAR this year… not worth it IMO
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 22, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I read it as "Re-arrange the same deck-chairs."
And hope the good stuff that happened this year keeps on happening, while the bad stuff doesn’t.
But I do hope we resign Westbrook.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 22, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
...
And hope the good stuff that happened this year keeps on happening, while the bad stuff doesn’t.
Well not really, it’s more hope that all of the average expected outcomes happen, which is the only way to go about life.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 22, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Um...
preferably with a 4th OF who can play all 4 positions adequately.
There are four outfield positions now?
So I mix up the Majors with my old beer league once in a while, happens...
;=8)
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
18th inning pitcher
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
rec
this all makes too much sense, somehow they will fuck it up
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
9. Get Rid of Tony LaRussa
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
by pattimagee on Sep 22, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
we've paid our pennance, GOB
no more TLR!
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
i disagree with this
What should be surprising is that they managed to look like a legitimate contender for half of the season."
only because we looked like a legitimate contender because our team was legitimately good… i guess he means after Penny, Freese went down which I guess I could buy, but that April team WAS a true contender
that rubbed me the wrong way too
given that the roster really started out way different than it ended, it’s not a really fair statement
can someone mail this to TLR so maybe he can reevaluate the weight of the grit factor
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
i think his point is this
despite having two injuries in the rotation, a major injury in the lineup, and a slew of underperforming regulars and quasi-regulars, the Cards still played like contenders for 100+ games because their core is so damn good. for the first 2/3 of the year, their 3 great hitters and 3 great starting pitchers were able to carry the 19 pieces of dead weight on the roster. in the last 1/3, the deadweight finally crushed the life out of the team.
that seems like a fair assessment to me.
by lboros on Sep 22, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
We were superficially good but we weren't deep
That’s why we only looked like a legitimate contender.
The injuries to Freese, Penny, and Lohse exposed our lack of depth.
Among other things.
but seriosly though
how shitty is your luck for two of your starting pitchers to get injured relatively early and remain out for so long?
i attribute the collapse to really bad luck when it comes to player health and then just poor roster management. i think we might have been able to survive one of the two, but not the two together
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
The Penny injury shouldn't have been that surprising given his history
The Lohse injury was pretty fluky.
surprising no
but it’s just rough that he only gave us a handful of starts
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
Penny doesn't have that bad of an injury history - common misconception
23 games played since 2001 except ’08
32 games in ’03, 24 GP in ’04, 29 in ’05, 34 in ’06, 33 in ’07, 17 in ’08 (exception), 30 in ’09
don’t really get why he got that profile
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 22, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Penny's injury wasn't (shouldn't) have been a surprise
Losing Otta was a blow. Nobody else at Memphis could step up.
Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: Rasmus 8, Jay/Craig 9, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, M Carpenter 5, Molina 2, T Greene 4, Ryan 6, pitcher
Penny out, Lohse out and Albert having a poor year
probably equals 5 wins over the course of the season, AND we’d still have Ludwick. We’d be right in the hunt (3 games back and in the wildcard chase), even with all else being equal.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 22, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
or just going 11-12 vs losing teams after the reds sweep as opposed to 4-19
but you know, whatever.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 22, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Carp
I agree with all of the suggestions above, but they seem premised on the idea that the Cardinals essentially have a good enought team to contend if some pieces are used differently, and if the least important pieces (Winn, Miles, MacDougal et al) are discarded. That might be right — and given salarly constraints and the lack of available trade chips, they may be stuck with more or less the same team next year whether they like it or not.
In my opinion, the only trade the Cardinals could make that would bring significant return and/or salary space would be a deal involving Chris Carpenter. He is owed $15 million next year, and there is a team option for another $15 million for 2012.
I love Carp, and realize that trading him would create a hole in the rotation and a change in clubhouse chemistry (for better or for worse, I’m not sure). On the other hand, he is going to be 36 and his ERA+ has now slipped to 120 for the year — and he would still bring a nice haul of prospects from somewhere, not to mention that $15 million that could be applied to other needs.
Fire away-
the colorado rockies would love to have him
and they have a surplus of young talent to send back.
i bet atlanta would be interested too.
They look to have at least 3 guys with a similar ceiling to WW in their system right now
Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, and Minor all look to be mid-rotation or better starters. I’d wager we could get two of them for Carpenter, considering the ridiculous pitching depth that they have right now. Only Minor has innings above AA though…
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Couldn't they just sign Ted Lilly for 2/20 or something though?
He’s not much worse than Carp, cheaper, and they don’t have to give up any talent.
To a lesser extent a guy like Millwood, Pavano or Vazquez would work. I just don’t see anyone giving up talent AND $15m for a year of Carp when those four guys, all of whom are worse but all of whom are probably somewhat cheaper, are available.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 22, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
They're just so loaded with pitching in the minors though
that they could give up two of those guys and STILL have 3-4 mid-rotation guys with high ceilings their farm system. Where they lack talent is at the position player level at A and AA right now, and with their roster, they’re going to need help from the market there I would imagine.
I was going off of lboros’ suggestion that Atlanta would be interested. Carp is a true ace who’s been healthy for most of the last 2 years, so there’s no point in trading him unless we’re getting back a really good return.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Who are you thinking?
I’d want no less than Matzek, Arenado, and another B/C player if we’re dealing Carp, and I’d prefer to have a pitcher who’s closer to the majors. Although Matzek and Miller would be an interesting righty/lefty combo who’d be likely to hit the majors at the same time.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'd focus on the MLB-ready talent
the Cards still want to contend next year, after all. so i’d want the package to include dexter fowler, who is a good defender and solid leadoff man who doesn’t have to hit .300 to post a good on-base pct. (if he does hit .300, he’s among the league leaders in obp.) i’d also want an MLB-ready pitcher - chacin is probably now off the table, but i think jason hammel and esmil rogers are both going to have long and useful big-league careers; they won’t be stars, but they’ll be contributors. and franklin morales is still a huge arm that may be harnessed someday.
of their position-player prospects, my favorite is wilin rosario, who slugged .550 as a 21-year-old catcher at double A.
i might also try to get the rox to throw in chris nelson, who clearly has talent but has dealt with injuries and distractions on his way up. he can play 2b and ss, and he might be one of those late bloomers like brandon phillips or ryan ludwick.
if you pick 3 or 4 players out of that group, and then use the $15 million you save on carpenter’s salary to sign orlando hudson and jake westbrook . . . . so much for the depth problem in the organization.
The question though,
is what incentive does Carp have to go to the Rockies? The effectiveness of his curve will most likely take a hit, I just don’t see it as a place he would want to go to.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
A couple of questions then:
- Where does Dexter Fowler play for us? He’s not as good a CF as Colby is and he’s never played in a corner outfield spot at any level as far as I can tell. Does he have the arm to play RF? Could we move Matt Holliday and put him in LF?
- Would the Rockies give up Dexter Fowler? Brad Hawpe is probably gone (or being moved to 1B), which means that Seth Smith could move to RF, CarGo goes in LF, and Fowler in CF. As far as I know they don’t really have a CF to replace Fowler, so do we deal them Jon Jay with Carp and get a little more back in return?
I think a Fowler, Hammel/Rogers, Nelson package for Carp, Jay would be a good package for both teams, but I guess it just depends on the above two questions.
You’ve seen Fowler play more than I have I’m sure, so you’re better equipped to answer this question than I am.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
fwiw, matty said he's open to moving to RF
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
cargo can play center
he’s started 150+ games there in his career, including 50+ this season. the rockies have spilborghs and seth smith to man the corners, and eric young jr will probably wind up in the outfield too. so they can afford to deal fowler.
in st louis i’d put fowler in a corner - am not sure if he has the arm to play RF, but if not then i guess they’d put holliday out there and stick fowler in left.
the big question is whether the rockies would be willing / able to take on carpenter’s salary.
I would guess that he has no desire to pitch in Colorado,
and would veto the move.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm really curious about Jay's trade value
Seems like he would be a nice piece for someone in need of a CF but less valuable to us a corner outfielder. I’m wondering if he can be turned into a decent MI. Then we can replace with him someone like Dejesus.
it will be interesting to see if they will experiment with converting people to MI
but at least Schu had a brief stint in the middle infield in the past. has Jay always been an outfielder?
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I actually meant in a trade not a Schu conversion
I’m very skeptical of the Schu conversion success rate
Fowler is basically Jay, I don't really want him
by vivaelpujols on Sep 22, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, no he's not.
- In 1386 minor league PA’s, Fowler’s walk rate was 12.2%.
- In 1767 minor league PA’s, Jay’s walk rate was 7.9%.
- In 1013 major league PA’s, Fowler’s walk rate is 12%.
- In 304 major league PA’s, Jay’s walk rate is 7.2%.
Admittedly, Jay’s sample size for major league walk rate is probably too small, but I don’t believe his track record projects him to ever have a walk rate above 9% at the MLB level. Jay would need to hit .300 (just like Skip) in order to get on base the same amount of times as Fowler hitting .280. That’s a pretty damn big difference.
Also, Fowler slugged .505 in a full season in the minors and might have a bit of pop from the left side. He’s a switch hitter, which is nice to have at the top of the lineup, and he’s a year younger than Jay is.
There’s a pretty significant difference between the two players, and I think Fowler has the higher ceiling as a player.
Calling them the same is like calling Josh Willingham and David Murphy the same. One has to hit .290 to have a .360 OBP. The other could hit .260 and have a .360 OBP. Big difference, but you know that already.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Isn't Atlanta pretty much loaded with pitching options?
although I guess Medlen is probably out with TJ for much of next year, so perhaps not…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 22, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
i curse you
that’s all
all my rationality is out the window when it comes to 29
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
CDNGAFAATTCCT
but seriously, it IS a good point. i don’t know what his trade value is like. i do, however, believe in intangibles and all that nonsense, and i think if we are running with a team full of youngsters next year (please Tony/Mo/Dewitt? PRETTY PLEASE??) it would be quite helpful to have someone like carp in the clubhouse. especially if oquendo is the manager. i think carp is a quiet leader of the team. if lohse had come back this year and pitched a little bit better, i would also be more supportive of this move. but i think we have to go along with the assumption that he’s not ever going to be very good again. in which case, trading carp leaves you with two holes in the rotation to fill.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
If we weren't already hurting in our rotation
I might agree.
No reason Carp should have to throw so many innings next year, and that might help him stay fresher. We definitely need to be thinking about 2012 though, as $15M is a lot of coin. Maybe Carp would take a smaller, 1 year deal at that point, if we even want that.
You trade Carp this offseason though, and you have Waino, Garcia who just about has to regress some, and Lohse. Even if we sign Westy, that is still a big hole to fill. Carp may not pitch like an ace next year, but if he can pitch like a solid 2/3 guy, AND add the value he adds as almost a player/coach, I just don’t see how you can move him. Unless we have our eyes set on Westy and another FA pitcher, but I don’t see that. And saving the $15M this year only helps if you can find somebody else. There simply isn’t much out there. Carp will play in STL next year, as he probably should.
that all makes sense
and since he is one of LaRussa’s “guys,” it is unlikely to happen.
I think that there is a fair amount they can do with $15 million plus whatever prospects — and they probably could get some on or near the top tier — would come back in a trade. There isn’t much on the FA market, but that kind of salary room plus some good young talent makes trades that would have been impossible, possible.
Again, I know that this would be risky, and is unlikely to happen. But not trading him also involves some risk — a 36 year-old with a history of multiple arm problems and a huge number of innings pitched this year isn’t going to be a stud for too much longer — and, in my opinion, more or less commits the team to running out the same guys next year and hoping that things go better.
A few guys have mooted restructuring Carp's deal
and I like that idea. We pay him something like $10m/yr for the next three years, basically picking up his 2012 option but also having him for 2013. I think he’d do that as it’s guaranteed money and 3 guaranteed years. Hopefully he’s smart enough to realise his option likely doesn’t get picked up in 2011 anyhow.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 22, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this is what they should do
I’d offer to restructure him this offseason for 3Y$36M, with him getting his $16M next year and then $10M in the two years after that. We would save enough to pay for at least half of Albert’s extension in 2012, and would have him for one more year after Lohse’s contract is off the books and Garcia and Rasmus start to get expensive.
That seems like a good trade off for both sides in terms of payroll flexibility. Carp goes from $18M guaranteed to $36M guaranteed and the club gains more payroll flexibility down the road.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
but will carpenter be worth anywhere near 10M after next season?
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 22, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He'd only have to be a 2.5 WAR pitcher to be worth $10M,
and considering his worst full season with the Cardinals he was worth 3.2 WAR (2004) and that he’ll likely be worth nearly 4 WAR this season when it’s completed, I’d bet he’ll be worth more than $10M in both of those years as long as he’s reasonably healthy.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
you have to ask yourself this question though
would you commit 36 million and 3 years to a regular free agent starter who is entering his age 35 season, has a ~30% decrease in WAR from 2009 to 2010, and has an injury history?
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 22, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmmmm...
I have some questions for you then:
- Is this age 35 starter an ace?
- Was this age 35 starter one of the top 4 pitchers in his league in WAR in 2009?
- Is this pitcher a solid #2 starter by WAR and FIP in 2010?
- Don’t most pitchers have some sort of injury history?
The answer to all of those is yes.
He could be Curt Schilling or he could be Mike Scott. He’s a better pitcher than Scott was and he’s not a strikeout guys like Schilling was, so he could age fairly well.
The other real option is to deal him, re-sign Westbrook as the #3 starter, go with Lynn as the #5 starter, and try to get back pitching prospects in return for him, while using his salary to upgrade the middle infield.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i'm just really, really woosy on depending on carp in 2013 to give anything.
he’s more likely to be hurt in 2013 than he is to put up 2.5 WAR.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 22, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
time will tell.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 22, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure it will
but you can’t say that he’s more likely to be hurt than to put up 2.5 WAR. That’s basically saying that he’s more likely to be hurt than to pitch at all, because he’s been worth 3 WAR in every season he’s been healthy since coming to the Cardinals.
I don’t know what basis you can have for this outside of a WAG about the health of his arm.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
What?
Are you forgetting 2008? That’s the worry for me – not really his worth if he’s playing, but the fact that he might not play.
I'm not forgetting 2008,
but he’s been a very good pitcher the last two years and is leading the league in starts this year. If he’s not able to pitch in 2013 that doesn’t really kill us, as we should have a couple guys available from the farm in 2012.
I think it’s worth the risk because he’s been so good when he’s healthy.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Can I introduce you to my friend 10 and 5?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
That's kind of a silly name
Are his parents hippies?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
gypsies actually.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
they live in Seattle
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 22, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I thknk we should keep Carp...
…until he is replaced by Shelby Miller. A Wainy/Carp/Garcia/Westie first 4 would rank with the best in the game and give us a significant advantage in the play-offs (if we ever make them!). heck, I’d even say sign Penny to an incentive-laden cowtract and let him push Louse tot he ’pen and be our 5 if possible! A championship-winning team begins and ends with an excellent rotation, IMO.
:=8)
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
Miller probably needs TJ in the next two years
[ducks!]
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 22, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
based on what
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
by prophetjohn on Sep 23, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
OT: look at this video
of Will Rhymes hitting his first ML HR and his teammates pretending to give him the silent treatment. it’s quite endearing
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
by d-dee on Sep 22, 2010 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Is he related to Busta?
Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?
by jd is legend on Sep 22, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I remember reading about that a while ago.
Something like that has as much chance of being the actual explanation for unicorns as anything. Mythical unicorns are supposed to be smaller than horses (I think) and have a weird mix of features, like a goat-looking beard and different hooves. I think a different tail too.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
So it would make sense that a genetic defect in a goat or deer or antelope was the original "unicorn"
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
You know how to take the fun out of everything
Next you’ll tell me that the jackalope is just a rabbit infected with the Shope papilloma virus.
Colby's pretty sure that's not the case

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and it walks.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Sep 22, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
At least I didn't bring up the politics of pre-nups and how they intersects with economic choices
such as revenue’s relation to prices and the voting public’s three-tiered schema of candy bar preference.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Sep 22, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reeses dude, it's all about the Reese's
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Don't forget.....FJM takes over
Deadspin today.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
still with the VORP...
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
by prophetjohn on Sep 23, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
haha check this article out
What Phoebe showed me that day was perfection. I wanted to have them and I was willing to do what it took to get them. Then my whole world was transformed.
Jerry, we get it. You masturbated to Phoebe Cates. It’s cool — we all have our thing. Sometimes I like to open up baseball-reference.com and just go to town while looking at Barry Bonds OBPs from the early 2000s. ‘Cause, you know, I’m a Stat Geek.
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 23, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Jimmy noooo.
:(
do the reds have to break everything good?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
what happened?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
ouch....did that just happen,
or did they just figure it out? I thought he’s been on the DL for a while now.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
home run trot.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Larue interview from
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I wonder if Penny would agree to give us a bargain and/or go to the bullpen next season
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 2:14 PM EDT reply actions
i don't want him back.
he was really good when he was pitching but he only pitched for less than 2 months. and we don’t really know how healthy he is.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 22, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be open to having him back in the 'pen for a nominal cost
maybe he’ll feel like he owes the cards something. not likely, but sometimes this happens.
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
i'll take him for 1M
anything more than that, no thank you.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 22, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
if he were to go to the bullpen and only cost $1M
that would probably be the biggest steal of ’11 in MLB
but then again, I have no idea how he could miss over half a season with the injury he had.
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Let him Knock Out Louse to the 'Pen!
and yeah, he owes us a good deal, and we can give him an-udder chance to show he can pitch. I would be REALLY happy with a Wainy/Carp/Garcia/Westie/Penny rotation!
:=8D
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
why the heck would you want Lohse in the 'pen
when his main value is an innings eater. Penny seems more injury prone to me, and limiting his innings would make a lot more sense.
but at this point, both of them may be injury problems, so I suppose they are pretty much interchangeable. unfortunately, Lohse’s only value to the bullpen would be a mop up guy, and it would take a lot of justification for them to turn him into that considering how much money he makes.
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Open question
Remember that part in Bull Durham when Crash explains to Nuke (or whomever it was, can’t remember) the difference between hitting .250 and hitting .300 over 500 at-bats?
Aside from the fact that he probably should have used plate appearances and taken walks and extra base hits into account (not to mention positional adjustments… in fact, maybe he should have introduced Nuke to the concept of linear weights…)
/lame pandering to crowd.
Anyway, what is the difference between Albert’s 2010 and a typical year from Albert? BA adds to both OBP and SLG, right? So, how much would it take for Albert to have a “normal” offensive year? A few more doubles and a dozen more singles? It couldn’t have taken that much over the course of the season for him to slug over .600 and whatnot.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Vep did this in a comment the other day I think.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Here it is
His career wOBA is .434. His wOBA this year is .409; however, that comes with a .290 BABIP. Normalize his BABIP to his batted ball rates and he has a .434 wOBAr. Then consider the fact that league wOBA is down (97.8% of) this year compared to his career. You adjust for that and his wOBA is .444.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
lineup
Fox_Sports_MW
#STLCARDS LINEUP—Skip 2B, Jay RF, Pujols 1B, Holliday LF, Rasmus CF, Descalso 3B, Pagnozzi C, Ryan SS, Lohse P 4 minutes ago via web
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
how can anyone possibly think al hrabosky should be an announcer
and yet, it happens.
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
is Bryan Anderson still on the team?
I have a hate relationship with the Cardinals' roster makeup decisions. | Cards on Cards
you realize we're scoring 12 runs tonight, right?
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 22, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
duh.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 22, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
so Tony
Refused to play Craig at third and was hesitant with Greene because it wouldn’t be “fair” to them. Now he starts Descalso there. Descalso played 2 games at third at Palm Beach in 2008, and 47 games at third at Batavia in 2007. Huh?
we need to upgrade to the gallon milk jug
maybe some inserts on tax returns
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Need Milk?
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
;=8)
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
Exactly….
everyone but DonTony/Mo could see that without an offensive upgrade, the patient was terminal. Running Feliz out there was waving the white flag. It’s possible that someone like Craig or Greene could have got hot. Feliz has no hot in the tank.
Managing personalities/egos etc.
If TLR benches Skippy and starts Descalso, he undoubtedly creates an “issue” in the clubhouse since Descalso is right in the “possible long-term replacement for Skippy” wheelhouse. It basically tells Skippy that “we’re testing out a replacement for you next year” and that we “may be looking to trade you in the offseason.”
Starting Descalso at 3rd smoothes these rough edges since there’s no current incumbent at 3rd, while still getting him some at-bats.
No you may say (like I would) – “Isn’t that exactly why TLR should start Descalso?!?” And I would agree with you because I don’t care if Skippy is on this team, have no particular affinity for him, and would just as soon Mo get busy finding a replacement for him.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 22, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
mehh....
the players should understand that the young guys should get playing time while they are out of it
if skip really thinks something of descalsco starting once in late september while the cards are 8 games back then skip is kind of paranoid…
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 22, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
let's check the pilot light on the ole stove....
if you could stick one free agent in Fredbird’s van (meaning — money is no object) … who would you grab before the next Spring Training?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Does "sticking a free agent in Fredbird's van" mean we sign him, or that said free agent disappears "Unsolved Mysteries" stlye?
‘Cause there’s an FA or two that I’d like to see vanish just to ensure they don’t return.
let's do both
Fredbird’s van
and the Milwaukee weinermobile
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
If we're not looking at cost:
Add – Jayson Werth on a 2 year deal. This frees up Jay to be the 4th OF type everyone seems to think he is and allows Craig to be dangled as trade bait or added to a package if he’s got any value at all.
Shoved in the van to Milwaukee: Pedro Feliz. Miles at least you can theoretically stash away somewhere and hope he only makes PH appearances. Feliz basically has to be out in the field if he’s on your roster, which means he’s likely to get multiple AB’s a game to drag your will to live down the toilet.
Would Love to Add Werth....
….but don’t see it happening. I think Jay will be fine. This is still his rookie year, he can be a perfectly good OF in a short period of time, he’s got young legs, a decent arm, decent range, and pop in his bat. And he’s home grown and udder control. Jay is a plus, not a negative. Werth adds moar moolah, probably way too much. Besides, he’ll mess around with the wrong Cardinals wife and get himself luggaged…
;=8)
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
Part of the premise of this hypo was "ignore cost."
Unless I misinterpreted the part of Yadi’s post where it said “money is no object,” at least.
FWIW, I agree with you – some combination of Jay/Craig/Mather will likely be fine in RF next year, with Jay likely being the floater to give Colbly off days since he can handle center.
But if I had the magic checkbook for one of the potential free agents this summer, it’d be Werth. I don’t think you can really argue that, absent cost considerations, Jay > Werth.
It's the adverb form
Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?
by jd is legend on Sep 22, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I believe that Werth hired Boras this week.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
people are just in a hurry to crush dreams
must be a VEB thing
heh heh heh
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
aaaargh
Fox_Sports_MW
#STLCARDS Molina headed back to STL for MRI on right knee 6 minutes ago via web
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
beautiful......
Your killing me over hear GOB’s….you bastards.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
they are bastard coated bastards, after all
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
The Year gets Worse....
….well, let’s see cow Anderson and Gagnozzi do. Think of it as an audition to back up Moolina next year.
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
catching is not an enviable position
here’s to a fast recovery, yadi
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
and that is why letting him sit a few games makes a tremendous difference.
also: BRYAN ANDERSON EXISTS
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Ya.....He's Gagnozzi's backup.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
This is what happens
When you never rest Yadi. We all know how great a catcher Yadi is and how valuable he is to the pitching staff, but when his knee has been bothering him and you never let the man rest, what do you expect to happen?
Senility is definitely not one of Tony’s most charming characteristics….come to think of it I can’t find a single thing I like about him.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Sep 22, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
descalsco to start at third base tonight
wat
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 4:24 PM EDT reply actions
He played there in college
and probably would have played more there in AAA this season had Gotay not been on the team.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
ah
thanks for the clarification. I’m not as informed on the fabrege eggs as many on here.
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You know we should have plenty of money in the offseason
With the way the GOB have been fucking us, I’d say we’ve racked up quite a lot of dough.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Sep 22, 2010 4:38 PM EDT reply actions
you've said it aloud!
now a kraken will rise from the Lake DeWitt parking lot and incur a gigantic fine from the city of St. Louis!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Speaking of fines
Maybe the reason the team has no money is because of the impending fines from Vaporware Village
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Sep 22, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Comment from the Straussicorn chat...
Another comment – I want LaRussa back. These fan boards dont represent the majority of fans, in my opinion. A lot of these jokers are so beaten down by life,spouses, bosses,etc. that the only say they have in anything is to post negative comments – they somehow feel empowered .
Aww, were we mean to someone?
....
The majority of fans are idiots when it comes to actual baseball, hence why you’ll hear your average fan saying:
“But TLR HAZ 2500+ Wins…liek u dont no how good he is so shuddup.”
“TLR IS AMAZING. ID LIEK TO SEE U GO OUT THERE AND MANAGE PROPER”
“AARON MILES IS SEXXAY, AND BATTED 350 LAST MONTH, Y DONT U TRY AND DO THAT!!”
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Sep 22, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Actual posts from the cardinals FB page to prove my point
“thy also need a new manager and hitting coach not one who tells the guys how to inject roids McGUIRE!!!!”
“What ever happend to gool O”LL RED SHAINDYS or how ever you spell his name…"
“i say trade lohse he got a hefty contract what did he do this year besides get a surgery on his jerk off muscle”
" please leave your not good enough to help. I"ll give you $1.25 IF YOU LEAVE NOW!" (In regards to Ryan Franklin)
or my absolute favorite
Put Miles on 3rd base for awhile. He seems to do well wherever they put him. At least, he shows great effort.
If that last quote doesn’t scream idiot, then something is wrong.
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Sep 22, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
"get a surgery on his jerk off muscle"
WINNER
Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?
by jd is legend on Sep 22, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what is "surgery"
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
wow did you just create this or was this in your back pocket?
either way im impressed at the speed….
by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 22, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
fakeposters.com

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Anybody that knows about that injury has already had it.
And gone blind in the process.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Sep 22, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
he shows great effort!
LOL
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Anybody that can't spell Schoendeist properly
shouldn’t be allowed to call themselves a Cardinal fan.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Sep 22, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
so is he saying Strauss is just beaten down .... ?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Strauss gets off on Cardinals fans' agony
Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?
by jd is legend on Sep 22, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
dude is fucking clueless
resorting to personal attacks lol!
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 22, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
it occurs to me
that if we’d played more of the Memphis Mafia EVERY DAY or in regular platoons
we could have had more trade bait lying around to fill the most pressing needs, when we needed it.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT





















