Jake Westbrook and the 2011 Rotation
by DanUpBaby on Sep 17, 2010 12:28 PM EDT
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PrintTonight's starter makes me perhaps less likely than I used to be to appreciate these things, but Jake Westbrook really has been outstanding as a Cardinal—he's raised his strikeout rate by 1.4 and lowered his walk rate by 0.6 while establishing what would be a career high groundball rate. Imagine a universe where the Cardinals didn't start sucking the minute they traded for him, and he's basically having the Woody Williams 2001 season, with almost identical peripherals.
So do the Cardinals go after him in the offseason? That seems to be Westbrook's early prerogative, and I can't blame him; before Kyle Lohse set about mucking up the works Busch Stadium seemed like a pretty universally effective rest cure for the formerly competent, and just a season from elbow surgery Westbrook is in no position to earn himself a Jeff Suppan Contract of Regret from some other team.
I'll say this—until I looked at the numbers just now I wasn't a huge Westbrook fan, but there are very few permutations of the Cardinals' offseason, I think, that aren't made better by offering him a one year contract at the going rates for a Brad Penny-class starter.
Of course, it depends on what the Cardinals want to do with the rotation in 2011. It'll be, perhaps, the most interesting part of their offseason.
No. 1: Adam Wainwright
At this point Wainwright can be relied upon to be outstanding inasmuch as any pitcher can be relied upon to do anything—if the Cardinals lose him for any length of time and are unable to replace him it'll be less about due diligence and more about GOB caprice. In 2010 he's been, if anything, a little better than he was in 2009; I certainly didn't expect that.
No. 2: Chris Carpenter
No. 3: Jaime Garcia
These guys, though—the Cardinals need a competent sixth starter around for next season, and they need it because the team as currently constructed is heavily reliant on these two pitching arms. Chris Carpenter's season hasn't been nearly as much of a downer as Dan and Al seem hell-bent to imply—his peripherals are off his pre-injury peak, but the major difference between 2009 and 2010 is that he didn't allow any home runs at all in 2009, and now he's just not allowing very many. He's also pitched 216 innings, which is quite an achievement from a 35 year-old who missed his age 32 and 33 seasons.
Jaime Garcia, too, has never quite gone down for the count; he's had stretches where he's appeared to lose it, and then he appears to get it back. He probably won't win Rookie of the Year, but his season has been a success by any measure—he's thrown 28 starts and 163 innings a year after pitching 40, and he's done it with an ERA under three.
But I worry about any Cardinals team built around the assumption that these guys will again throw 370 innings of sub-3 baseball. Carpenter will be 36, and for Cardinals fans his arm will always be ticking; Garcia has been pitching above his FIP all year and will come into 2011 having thrown his fullest season since he was 19. They'll both be effective, but they could both be less effective.
No. 4: Jake Westbrook?
This might be a better mix of upside and risk than Brad Penny offered the rotation in 2010. Westbrook has had the prototypical Dave Duncan Bump in productivity since joining the Cardinals, although it's been masked by the Cardinals' inability to win when someone's allowing two earned runs in six or seven innings. And it's not often a guy pitching 200 innings right off elbow surgery can put this on his résumé, but he's more reliable than the guy he replaced—his injury was a little more typical, a little more understandable than Brad Penny's mystery arm.
I don't think you can write him into the rotation for 200 league-average innings unless you use a pencil, but that's what the Cardinals' budget is going to look like; he's as near a sure thing as the Cardinals can afford.
No. 5: Kyle Lohse and a cast of thousands
Kyle Lohse as a sixth starter I can kind of deal with—he'll be another year removed from that weird surgery, and his peripherals haven't been so bad since his comeback. The Cardinals are stuck with him, and given Tony La Russa's predilection for low-leverage long relievers there's a place to stash him in the back of the bullpen in April.
But coming into the season with Kyle Lohse as the fifth starter would be an inexplicably confident move in the midst of a contract that has been mesmerizingly bad. According to Baseball-Reference he has now been worth -2.9 wins below a replacement player since signing his deal—he was worth 2.4 in 2008—and in 2011 and 2012 the deal tops out; he'll make $12 million. The question right now shouldn't be whether he's ready to rejoin the rotation in Spring Training—it's whether the Cardinals should cut him in Spring Training. Right now I think there'll be enough low-leverage innings in the early going not to do it, but he could yet convince me otherwise.
Unfortunately, this probably means another back-of-the-rotation rental in 2011. Lance Lynn is interesting, especially after that brilliant playoff performance, but he had a rough start to his Memphis career and could probably stand to spend another few months there. Kyle McClellan has probably proven too valuable in the bullpen. The other guys who've started in 2010—Jeff Suppan, Blake Hawksworth, Adam Ottavino, P.J Walters—are the kind of pitchers who signing a reliably mediocre fifth starter is supposed to preclude in the first place.
If Shelby Miller were two years older, this might be workable from within the system. But even if the Cardinals resign Jake Westbrook they've got maybe 15-25 starts to fill, lest they be filled again from the replacement level. That should be job one in the offseason, aside from figuring out exactly what it is Albert Pujols wants. (I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that our own Alex Fritz has his own ideas on that topic.)
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well, Moz said yesterday
he expects an incremental upgrade in payroll
and right after that he said “between 95 and 105 mil”
Westy wants to stay
Sooo… just make it happen Mo
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
I was sitting a few feet from Moz when he was talking about payroll
took me some self-restraint to not say Open DeWallet out loud
i thought it was nice though, that he took a few questions – about Colby and TLR and TLR returning (and facial hair) and answered without hesitation. i hope he does a better job with the 2011 roster
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
Hasn't we been hearing that for the last 5 years?
Seriously, I think they’ve been saying that since the new stadium and payroll has been flat.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
yeah, we has
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
by prophetjohn on Sep 17, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i should have said
he expects an incremental upgrade in payroll
BUT right after that he said "between 95 and 105 mil"
i’m thinking the same thing you are, Az. they say increase but then quote the same numbers
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
I don't think they have a choice, at this point.
They’ve stayed about the same for the last few years. Maybe bumping it up a bit here and there. But they’ve run the course and found out that they’re going to have to bite the bullet and do it.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Sep 17, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
has we, we has
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice post dan, but
But coming into the season with Kyle Lohse as the fifth starter would be an inexplicably confident move in the midst of a contract that has been mesmerizingly bad. According to Baseball-Reference he has now been worth -2.9 wins below a replacement player since signing his deal—he was worth 2.4 in 2008—and in 2011 and 2012 the deal tops out; he’ll make $12 million. The question right now shouldn’t be whether he’s ready to rejoin the rotation in Spring Training—it’s whether the Cardinals should cut him in Spring Training. Right now I think there’ll be enough low-leverage innings in the early going not to do it, but he could yet convince me otherwise.
I’m a little bemused by this paragraph. I’m not a Lohse fan, I hate the contract and I’ve hated it since the day it was signed, but I don’t see how he’s anywhere near being cut. He’s still young enough to put up close to average numbers in a bounceback year, and you’ve really got to put his horrid 2010 performance (and he’s not been THAT much of a disaster; 4.2 FIP, 5 xFIP, that’s probably about what we’d get from any of the Memphis crew this year or even next) down somewhat to injury.
IF he can remain healthy he’s probably an above-average 5th starter. His last two years have, I think, put paid to the notion that he’d be a good #3 or 4 (about the best case scenario when the deal was signed) but I’m broadly convinced that he’s still, in the long-ish run, likely to be the underwhelming 4.50 FIP pitcher he’s always been which, even if you knock off a few points of FIP for ageing and arm-mileage, is still pretty good for a 5th starter, especially if he can provide 180+ IP.
Cutting him seems counter-productive no matter what happens in spring training. We’re still paying him $24m regardless, and it’s not as if he’s keeping any high-upside young guys off the 25-man roster. Even if he sucks next year we might as well keep him on the roster for no additional cost and hope for a bounceback year in 2012, as opposed to cutting him and picking up a similar scrapheap pitcher for $2m or whatever.
In any case, he SHOULD only be our #5 (and only until Lynn’s ready, unless we get an injury elsewhere), because it’s hard to see a world in which Westbrook isn’t extended. He likes us, we like him, and he seems like too much of a perfect fit NOT to get it done.
Still bitching to contact.
Agreed. Assuming Lohse is healthy, put him at 5 and be done with it.
It’s not like he’s keeping any upside arms off the roster and he’s already paid for.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Sep 17, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Cutting him would accomplish nothing. . .
unless he pitches so bad that any old Quad-A pitcher would be better. Trading him in a dreck-for-dreck trade, OTOH, might accomplish something. That’s how the Cards got Ozzie Smith, after all. And how the Cubs got a good half-season out of Carlos Silva. And how the Rays got a few good ABs out of Tino Martinez.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Sep 17, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Put TLR on it.
If anyone can make you demand a trade, it’s Tony LaRussa!!!
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
by Tackle Box on Sep 17, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
put him into the pen
he’d agree to move
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
agreed
Lohse is the 5th starter
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep...
…I don’t like him, would love to trade him, but I think he fits in as our 5th guy until he REALLY craps out, or until we manage to find an-udder gem in our pile of coal. What moolah we have needs to go to keeping Pujols here, re-signing Westie, and finding bench/injury replacement options, and probably a new Loogy. IMO.
:=8)
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
What are we all expecting next year, 25-man wise?
I see it something like this:
Starting 8
C – Yadi
1B – AP
2B – Skip (2011 would be the second year of a 2-year deal, right?)
3B – Freese/Greene/outsider
SS – Boog
LF – Holliday
CF – Clobby
RF – Jay/Craig platoon
Bench
OF – Jay/Craig (whoever’s not in RF that day)
OF – Mather?
INF – Greene
INF – Lopez/outsider?
C – Anderson
Rotation
1 – Waino
2 – Carp
3 – Garcia
4 – Westy?/Outsider
5 – Lohse
’Pen
CL – Frankie
Setup1 – KMac
Setup2 – Motte
RH – Boggs
RH – Hawk/Salas/outsider?
LH – Miller
LH – outsider?
That setup doesn’t look AWFUL, but there are several spots where I’d like to see better quality or more certainty.
ugh
that’s just this year’s lineup..
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
yeah, see, there is a problem in the fact that next years team is likely to be almost the same as this year's team
although i do believe the absence of feliz and miles, and the addition of freese and greene, will probably make a noticeable difference.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
But that is how we started out this season
I think Mo has to look for an upgrade at one or more of 3b, SS, 2b or RF, with the most likely being 2b and RF.
WARNING: Unicorns ahead
Well I think we all know the truth, that one of Albert, Colby, Jay, or…. oh shoot, now I can’t remember the 4th name, but, anyway, one of these won’t be on the team next year. At least that’s what JSL!! had in his latest smarmyness. (Yes, I admit that I backslid and read some of the latest chat on the P-D today)
by ArkansasTravs on Sep 18, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
of course you resign westbrook.
i’ve been saying that since we traded for him. average to above-average sinkerballer that won’t cost the team that much money or commitment? yes, please. i would have done it yesterday.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 17, 2010 12:40 PM EDT reply actions
two issues with resigning Westbrook
1. He will likely want more than one year. While they could afford him next year, keeping him for two years would probably mean Carp’s option would have to be declined (assuming Albert resigns). That might not be a problem given Carp’s age, but still something to consider.
2. Committing the available dollars to Westy reduces the Cards’ ability to upgrade their offense. If Freese comes back healthy (and stays so) and the Cards are willing to use Greene, Descalso, etc., at second base, and Jay and Craig work in right, then Westy would be a great addition. But there are a lot of assumptions in there.
i think Carp's option being declined will happen
with or without Westbrook
but if Albert doesn’t want to resign this season (and I guess he won’t given the year he’s had), are we still not taking on long term contracts?
also, forget Craig, I want Crag!
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
you really think he won't re-sign?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
yes, i expect this to not happen this winter
i am open for pleasant surprises
but not holding my breath
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
so many of the Cards decisions
depend on whether Albert resigns – if not, then is plenty of money for Westy for a few years (if the Cards want him) along with various offensive upgrades
that's exatly what pisses me off
Albert saying he wants to play for a team that always competes
but at the same time not resigning is crippling the team’s ability to make roster moves that would increase our chances as a competitor
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
I'd rather give the open 4/5 starter
slot to McClellan and pocket the $s for a middle infielder or right fielder upgrade UNLESS Jake is agrees to a 1 year deal, which would shock me. We can’t afford Jake when Albert’s new contract kicks in … assume we resign Albert.
We have a bevy of up and coming relievers from the right side (Salas, Sanchez, Reifer, Samuel). Otto might need to be converted to a reliever due to the shoulder issues. Kinney, who is putting great numbers at AAA this season, isn’t even able to make it onto the 40 man roster. McClellan can be spared from the bullpen to take up residence in the rotation IMHO. It’s his highest, best use for the franchise.
It sucks that JMo gave the bad contrac to Lohse … but he did. We still owe $20m on that albatross. Don’t see how we eat the Lohse contract and also give a multi year deal to Westy.
in the history of bad baseball contracts
lohsie’s contract is not even thaaaat bad
besides, he brings a certain handsomeness to the team and is the resident hair stylist.
is that worth $20 mil? how much does matthew mcconaughey pay to get his hair cut?
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
btw, i took this (pretty bad) picture yesterday
i thought the background was ironic
(sniff)
i just can’t get over Luddy being gone
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
the worst part about it
is that westbrook has been far and away the better player since the trade. it just doesn’t show up in the stats.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 17, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
no the worst part about it is there might have been a way to keep luddy and still get westy
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
i've gone on record saying MO should have done it & still believe so
the Tribe were the ones who had to dump Westbrook, the Cards didn’t have to dump Luddy
yes the Cards were desperate for pitching, but MO got played. there was no logical reason for him to included San Diego & give them Luddy.
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
there were a lot of those moments.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i can relate
every time i think about it, i get a little misty eyed.
Mem’ries,
Light the corners of the outfield
Misty cardinal-colored memories
Of the way we were
Scattered hits,
and the RBIs we left behind
high fives we gave to one another
For the way we were
Can it be that the man stew was happy then?
Or has tony re-written every line?
If we had the chance to trade you again
Tell me, would we? Could we?
Mem’ries, may be beautiful and yet
What’s too painful to remember
We simply choose to forget
So it’s the laughter
We will remember
Whenever we remember…
The way we were…
the way we were… .
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
by IHeartBoog on Sep 17, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
I miss Luddy as much as the next fan, but I think it's worked out for everybody involved
It sounds like he enjoys the atmosphere in San Diego a lot, and there was no way we could’ve brought him back…
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
let me feel my feelings!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Lawyers have feelings?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Sep 17, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
shhhh
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
REC
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 17, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
i got attached when i saw him in the walkway to the visitors clubhouse at chase field
he looked me right in the eyes….SWOON
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
then NEVER ever look directly into Westy's eyes
they’re quite blue and magical
every time
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
magical westy?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Me too gdm,
me too. Maybe I’m using them incorrectly?
by ArkansasTravs on Sep 18, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
i dont know, do you want me to take a pic of them so you can tell me?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
luddites have not been rejoicing, for sure
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
Ewwww
there’s some Barbara Streisand in my Cardinals blog.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Sep 17, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
there was some Burl Ives and Star Wars....
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
How the hell is this not green?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I have to disagree on Kyle McClellan
We have enough relief prospects (Salas, Sanchez, Reifer) to replace him, if the team thinks he looks good as a starter. I’d say try it.
Could Colby Rasmus hit a ball so hard that even he couldn't catch it?
I've never been a fan of mcclellan the reliever
but as he becomes more effective I just think the Cardinals are less likely to do it.
Yea, they very well may not.
But I don’t see why they wouldn’t at least have him audition in ST. Our cheap RH relief options run too deep not to.
Could Colby Rasmus hit a ball so hard that even he couldn't catch it?
by Cardinals645 on Sep 17, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't agree more...
For all his success in the pen isn’t he still more of a middle reliever than a set-up guy? Aren’t Motte and Boggs our RH setup men? Add Salas, and you’ve got 4 strong RH relievers without KMac in there. Sanchez is ready for the next step, and Walters might be a long relief candidate. I don’t see how this team doesn’t go in to Spring Training with the intention of stretching KMac out.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
don't see how they can not afford to try him in the rotations
he was doing well in ST this year until jaime out-did him
wasn’t that he wasn’t successful
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
I'm very leery of moving him to starter
I just don’t have a good feeling about that
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think league conversions for pitchers are underrated
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/
Last 10 years: 4.28 NL ERA, 4.45 AL ERA
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/teams/
One year (2009?): AL FIP: 4.45, NL FIP: 4.19
Before Busch III’s pitcher-friendly park effects, before Dave Duncan, before additional surgical recovery, a 5% league improvement would take Westbrook’s 4.39 AL FIP down to 4.17. Five points isn’t small potatoes!
hmm
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ew, i've never seen skip look so unsexy!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
awww check out Eckstein having to stand on top of the base just to talk to Albert
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
those guys had some big laughs
while waiting on change of relievers when albert was at 2B
i also very much enjoyed the hug and tap boog gave eckie while tagging him out, think have picture of it but it’s overexposed and needs some photoshop – hate it when that happens to key captures
need moar skill damn it
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
Eck and Boog
Definitely want to see this pic
by WizardofOz1982 on Sep 20, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
here it is
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=12136991
around :30 in.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
just to (not) brighten everyone's day
I figured out this morning that had the Cards played .500 ball in their last 32 games (instead of going 11-21), they would be one game behind Cincy on the loss side.
Contrarian
It’s popular to assume that Chris Carpenter’s arm is one day soon going to shatter into a million pieces, but. . . . I wonder how justified that assumption is.
If Carpenter was a used car, he would be one with a rebuilt engine (shoulder) with 50K miles on it, and replacement tires and brakes (elbow) with a mere 5K miles on them.
His old shoulder made it approximately 1400 professional innings and who knows how many high school, American Legion and other amateur innings before throwing a rod. His new shoulder has approximately 1100 innings and counting on it.
His old elbow went a bit over 2000 (professional) innings before wearing out. His new one is 500 innings into its useful life.
Granted, he has has a DL visit for a bad back (missed no more than the minimum), that weird nerve biceps problem in 2004 that caused him to miss the playoffs, and a month off thanks to a strained oblique last season. None of those problems have apparently recurred, and for that matter, neither have the elbow problems or the shoulder problems once surgically repaired.
I would imagine that if a pitcher doesn’t change his mechanics after a repair that the same problem would be likely to recur, but Duncan / Mason are supposed to be very good at developing a pitcher’s mechanics.
Even if you assume that both major joints are due to break again thanks to the same mechanics that broke them the first time, Carp has a lot less innings than he had on those joints when they went kaput the first time. Granted, nearly (thanks to a handful of rehab IP) 100% of the post-surgery IP are higher leverage than the untold number of amateur IP, but the professional IP were all when the joints had finished developing while all of the amateur IP (and a portion of the early professional IP – he was drafted out of HS) were thrown by a still-developing arm.
Is anyone aware of any studies that show whether pitchers who have had a 1st TJ or labrum repair are more likely to require another one than pitchers who have never had those joints repaired? I suspect that there would be a selection problem there. The biggest problem with a repair like that is some guys never make it back. Carp clearly has. Is he now more likely to hurt either joint than your pitcher that has never had one of those surgeries?
Thoughts?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Sep 17, 2010 2:45 PM EDT reply actions
I think comparing the human body to an automobile, is flawed at best....
as a side, there is a huge quality gap between new and re-manufactured parts. If you replace your water pump with a reman unit vs. going new, you’ll be replacing it sooner, rather than later. And that’s what Carp is, re-manufactured, not new.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Wait, so you attack the analogy as flawed. . .
and then use it to make a point?
Awesome.
You are right of course, on the first point, that the analogy should not be taken too far. The ligament that Carp had reapired in his elbow isn’t the only one in there, of course, for instance.
But your assumption that his rebuilt elbow and/or shoulder will wear out faster than the original one(s) did is just that, an assumption. And that’s the assumption I’m challenging, namely that all else being equal, Carp’s new shoulder is weaker/more injury prone than the old shoulder, and the same for the elbow.
And of course even if that assumption is true, there’s the “all else being equal” part. Maybe stress on those joints while the arm is still developing is worse than that created by throwing high leverage major league innings at age 30+. Maybe his mechanics have changed to put less stress on the joints.
Of course, on the other side of the equation, Carp is no spring chicken anymore, and his knees and back and obliques and lats have all of those IP on them without having been repaired.
I just think it’s a fascinating question that deserves more than just an assumption. Do any of our doctors on here have any insight?.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Sep 17, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because it's flawed doesn't mean I can't disagree with it.
also, the assumption that I’m making, is the same one that your making. You assume that repairing the problems makes them as good as new. I really don’t know what the answer is. I would assume all of the work done on Carp is top notch, but, it is what it is. Repaired. And, as you alluded to, Carps gonna be 36 next year..How much is left in the tank? I’d love to see the guy end up being a back of the rotation guy, at a reasonable price, for as long as he wants..41 42, etc. I think he’s going to still be effective for the next couple of years, but 14 million effective? I don’t know.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm not assuming anything. . .
I’m just asking for insight on the heretofore unquestioned assumption that Carp is significantly more likely to be injured going forward because of his prior injury history, that’s all.
And yes, assuming that he is going to be $14M effctive would be just as much of an assumption as the one oft-stated in these comments that the Cards should not exercise his option.
The counter to that would be Clemens (although allegedly chemically-enhanced), Nolan Ryan, and a handful of others.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Sep 17, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
he saved 2 years of wear & tear by not pitching...
…I think he has 2-3 decent seasons still in him.
Plus, we need our enforcer. Who else is gonna bring the luggage, Miles? Ok, he did grapple 12 armed banditos while only using 1 fuzzy bunny slipper and a pastrami sandwich, but that was all grit and no gravy.
Spare me your taradiddles!!!!
:=8O
especially considering it was a day old & hard as a rock
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Can't afford the best stuff down in the Astros' bus leagues.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Sep 18, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not quite a perfect analogy
but I agree Carp probably has some 2-3 years of very producive starts left.
The problem with the rotation was that we had no reserve when we lost 4/5. Waino/Carp/Garcia had to pitch a lot of early innings and they are now toast.
Westbrook will command a kings ransom — all the GMs know how this works now. He’s past the “recovery” point — assume he will get a fat 3 year offer.
I like Waino/Carp/Lohse/Garcia/Suppan with Shleby Miller coming up in June/July. I think they should re-sign Penny, but I’m in the minority on that I’m sure. I think this mix with Lance Lynn as backup is a solid rotation.
In that way, they can go fill some holes in the lineup. They have to upgrade 2B, and I would consider Beltre at 3B. Have to hope that Jay/Craig will give them a solid RF. We get improvement from Ryan and Rasmus and we look ok. Would also ante up for a backup catcher who can hit and take Yadi down to 120 games.
If we hit a bit more consistently, we’ll be able to pull our pitchers earlier in the gameso they have something in the tank for stretch.
Just win
The differential on an automobile
is not pushed to the exact point of breaking 100 times every 5th day, plus quite a few times between those 5th days. The human elbow is pushed to the limit on each pitch.
I believe it was Carpenter who said that doctors told him his nerve problem would lead him to have a lessened use of his arm.
He said they couldn’t say if he had 10 throws or 10,000 left in him. Yadi2Second should really get on this. I think it was from 2008.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
that's too far back
erased from my database.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Y2 had just gotten here & he wasn't up & running like he is now
bgh is right, it’s the nerve problem that could rear it’s ugly head at any moment. or it may never come back. no one can say one way or the other
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
if chris carpenter were a car, he would be a:
go
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
hummer
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
he said car,
not what you want…oh, I see what you mean there. Nevermind!
Fire John Mozeliak up a nice steak, or stake ( haven't decided)
by mattyfrommo on Sep 17, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
women can,,,, don't finish that thought GDM, don't f'in do it
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Lamborghini Murciélago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce
if he’s anything, he’s a big, badass, mad as hell, nearly uncontrollable bull full of white hot fury
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
by gdm426 on Sep 17, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
rec for you
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
One of those talking cars from the movie Cars, except he would swear a lot more
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 17, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and you
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
Any time your argument starts with "think of Chris Carpenter as a car"
You know you’re in trouble.
Fire Tony La Russa
by vivaelpujols on Sep 17, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it really a shocker
that the Cards are going to raise payroll some next year? I mean, even if we simply raise it by the amount needed to extend Pujols, we should be okay. I never really saw it as an option to not raise payroll some, and assumed management would.
Anybody know, estimated of course, what we will start next with with, salary-wise, if all the FA’s walk? I think I read we started this year at $94M. I’d think we would have some significant money to throw around by not having Luddy, and hopefully letting LaRue and a few others walk. And the following year we’ll have Franklin’s salary off the books. Followed by Lohse’s.
As for Lohse, I’d love to know what the team is thinking of doing with him. If they think the offseason and ST will allow him to regain the form that would make him a very good #5 starter, then he’ll probably get the first crack at the rotation. If not, if they team feels, for whatever reason, he won’t regain that form, I agree with stashing him in the old Brad Thompson role. He won’t like it, but when you present him with the facts, I don’t see how he can disagree. If he dislikes it enough, he can allow the Cardinals to buy out his contract on the cheap, and he can go elsewhere. We all know that won’t happen though.
We currently have $80.4 committed to payroll..
for Holliday, Pujols, Carpenter, Lohse, Wainwright, Molina, Franklin, Schumaker and Miller. Ryan and McClellan will both be first year arby guys…might get both of them for $2.6M total bringing the total commitments to $83M. With 11 spots committed to these guys that leaves 14 open spots on the active roster…these spots can be (and for the most part will be) made up of guys making league minimum at about $500K each or $7M total. That brings the total to $90M. I think one of those 14 spots will have to go to a lefty reliever from outside the org, and the other possibility is a 4th starter (Westbrook?) from outside. We should be able to bring in these two for less than $10M, and thus keep our payroll under $100M.
This is all assuming that Pujols’s new contract doesn’t increase his 2011 salary.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
Salary projection data
using Cot’s contracts as the starting point, picking up options, adding estimated $$ for arb eligible and pre arb players, releasing all the free agents/bench veterans, the payroll ends up at $89 million with the team still missing a starter, a 2nd loogy and a position player (starter or bench player).
The $89 million assumes Freese returns to 3B, Jay/Craig/Mather as the other OFs, Anderson as backup C and Greene as UT. That would leave $6-11MM for the three players and stay within Mo’s projected $95-$100MM salary range. And this ignores an extension to Albert.
Ouch
I thought there’d be a little more wiggle room. And maybe there is, the poster above said Mo was using $105M as the ceiling, potentially adding another $5M
My concern though, is that that threshold also includes any Albert extension. Not sure if that will affect Albert’s next year salary, or not. Guess it will depend on how it’s structured.
$10M, if spent right, could improve the team. A lot will depend on what Westbrook wants to resign, if we go that route. I don’t see him signing this easily, but if he’d take $7M, we’d still have some room to work. Really interested to see what we do with Skip next year.
The Albert extension would not kick in until 2012, I would bet.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Never fear. . .
any extension for Albert that impacted the 2011 season would only add incrementally to his $16M salary under the club option. Granted, that might be a $25M salary, which would be a net increase of $9M, but it won’t be a net increase of $25M (unless they pay him $41M, which would seem to stretch the limits of credulity).
by SouthsideCardsFan on Sep 17, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
oops...
didn’t see this when I replied to Stanley1.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
don't forget about dry powder
it’ll inevitably be below that
FWIW, here’s what i came up with for next season
holliday – 17
pujols – 16
carpenter 15
lohse – 11.875
wainwright – 6.5
molina – 5.25
franklin – 3.25
schumaker – 2.7
mcclellan – 1 (arb 1)
ryan – 1 (arb 1)
boggs – .4
motte – .4
garcia – .4
rasmus – .4
salas – .4
hawksworth – .4
anderson – .4
jay – .4
craig – .4
greene – .4
freese – .4
21 players – 83.975
obviously some of those players will get minor raises over the league minimum, so it’s probably safer to assumer $85MM spent. that leaves us about $10MM to spend if we want any wiggle room. $7MM is too much to give any free agent
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
I'll be shocked if Freese is back by ST
Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: Rasmus 8, Jay/Craig 9, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, M Carpenter 5, Molina 2, T Greene 4, Ryan 6, pitcher
maybe this will fire up the cards
they didn’t like being called bitches, they don’t like having poopy in their pants.
The Orange Blob motivates!
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Sep 17, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Jack Clark wants you to know....
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Sep 17, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Evidently
Tweezers were not invented back in his playing days
by CarpIsMyManCrush on Sep 17, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Chuckle
“We’ve got one team here (San Diego) going for the title and we’ve got our team going for the toilet,” he said. “They’ve got poopy in their pants,”
Psssst, Jack, the Cardinals won that game.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Sep 17, 2010 3:18 PM EDT reply actions
He said that before the game.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Maybe he should have waited until after. . .
or perhaps not said it at all.
I loved Jack Clark as a player, but does anyone else get the idea that he has some horribly wrong supposition that by doing all of this that he could somehow be angling to succeed TLR?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Sep 17, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Clark is just one of those people who has no filter between their brain and mouth.
He strikes me as the type that says exactly what pops into his head without any regard for its accuracy or applicability to the situation, then passes it off as “Speaking his mind,” or “Telling it like it is.”
I’m setting the over/under for “Number of seasons before Clark gets canned for saying someting rioutously offensive, potentially after drinking with Shannon,” at 2.5. Also, setting the over/under for “gallons of spray tan on Clark’s body,” at 3.2.
I’m taking the under and over, respectively.
if they were going to fire him, they already would have last year
if they do it now, people will be pissed & raise hell because they will rightfully think the Cardinals do not want the media who covers them to say anything bad about the team
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
He's still pissed they hired McGwire and not him, so he does have an agenda.
That being said, any grown man who says “poopy in their pants” is a-okay in my book. You are forgiven for a syear of useless drivel with one comment, Jack Clark.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Sep 17, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it's cause he sucks as a hitting coach
i have no respect for a grown man that uses the word “poopy”
it’s worse than his fake tan
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
you'd love Kenny Wallace then, he's been saying it for years
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Pinella and Torre in the same year.
Get the hint Tony.
Cardinals 2010 memorial sig. Never Forget.
by The Continental on Sep 17, 2010 4:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
and Cox....
but Tony scoffs at those quitters.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
heh.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
According to the mothership, no one.
It’s common for coaches from the minors to come up after they’re done though, so possibly someone from the farm.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
great website for numbers
LINK
don’t see a 61. Could it be Pop Warner? I heard he was coming up from Springfield after they got eliminated.
he's with the big club right now but has been all the time
i keep seeing him
i put a picture in the picture day fanpost and put him down as jeff murphy (although i knew i was wrong) just noticed the number going through pictures though – 61
damn
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
..
andrewdmoses
Chris Duncan at Pappy’s. No joke. 4 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
Three minutes later...
twitter update: Duncan slipped disk eating spoon of potato salad. Now can’t lift BBQ ribs.
by dronemc on Sep 17, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
is he still here for recovery?
and: it’s a frickin’ reunion this weekend!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It's too bad we couldn't get the Reds here this weekend for a round-robin tournament.
That woulda been a helluva meet-up.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Sep 17, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
25 things you didn't know about baseball
well, i knew probably 10 of these things, but was partially surprised by the last one.
The worst player, by WAR, in the majors is a member of the cardinals and his name is not Aaron Miles.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-fangraphs091710
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
How dare you link to that article without a disclaimer? * alert.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Dude dissed Brendan's stache, and he hasn't even *really* had it this year.
Gave him props for his glove though.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
what does plus 25 DRS mean
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Dewans rating system?
It’s a +/- system.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
nvm...
defensive runs saved
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
awesome
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think that's Dewan's.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I wonder how many runs he'd have saved if he had more playing time
I guess he got pretty decent playing time though overall
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
There are two #8's on that list.
You’d think someone so sanctimonious and self-righteous would catch that, since he’s clearly perfect.
Feliz is one of the five worst players of the decade?
Didn’t the decade begin this year?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
no
the decade begins in 2011. just as the new millennium began in 2001
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
forget that aughts lists nonsense
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
THIS times 1000
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
why is this so hard for people to understand?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
i'm through number 2
and all i can think of is how lazy his analysis is
deriving clutch from WPA and evaluating pitches from fangraphs pitch values
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
oh man,
less than a whole season of defensive stats!
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
I know I know
poor analysis, but some of it was funny. And he bashed Jeter, which is always worth a read
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
fuuuuuuuuuuucccckkkkkkkkkk that guy
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Heard y'all were talking about me awhile ago.
Thought I’d drop by and say Hi.
And I hope you’re enjoying Jake Westbrook. I knew he’d be pretty awesome here.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
by ClemsonGirl on Sep 17, 2010 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
hopin he signs here next year on a good deal
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't think that be completely out of the realm of possibility.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
would probably be the best free agent acquisition we could do
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
something tells me acquiring a player we already have
isn’t going to improve this team a great deal
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Sep 17, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
where the hell did you disappear?
found a football fan boyfriend or something?
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
hey there we missed you
thanks for westbrook!
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
another way to stretch payroll...
sign a cheap manager instead of Larussa’s 4 mil
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 17, 2010 3:58 PM EDT reply actions
lineup
Skip 4,
Jay 9,
Albert 3,
Holliday 7,
Rasmus 8,
Molina 4,
Greene 5,
Lohse 1,
Ryan 6
..i miss ludriguez-wick..
Idon't know, but it pisses me off.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Molina playing second...
It’ll be nice to have someone with a bit more range than Skip…
Fire La Russa!
I seem to remember a similar line out of a Conan novel...
“Oh mighty Conan, destroy me with your love!” or the like. I think you may have a complex here, d-dee.
Also, I may have crossed a line.
Molina and Schumaker
With the two of them playing second at the same time and with a bit of spacing we might have the range of a single true second baseman.
by WizardofOz1982 on Sep 20, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
TYLER GREENE IS PLAYING THIRD BASE HFS
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
Clearly, Tony saw the Passan article linked above.
He knows Feliz is the worst player of the decade now.
Apparently he has learned his lesson about getting his agent to make the Cards follow the CBA.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i keep expecting to see one of these
and see colby on the bench. but it just doesn’t happen. that is certainly not the signature of tony la russa i see. this leads me to believe, through no faulty logic or leap of faith, that the front office is losing faith in TLR. that along with mo’s comments at nerd night make me think tony is gone.
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
i think he stays, i really do
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
This season may go down as one of the most...
memorable in the last few decades of Cardinal baseball. We’re going to be telling our grandkids about the year a powerhouse team was sunk by bad luck, Miles, Feliz, Soup, MacDougal, Stavinoha, La Russa, etc…
Fire La Russa!
I will never share anything about this season with my grandkids.
Doing so would bring up too many bad memories.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Last I checked, 2004 was a LOT bigger powerhouse team than this
and it certainly got sunk rather quickly.
fate is a fickle bitch
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
by IHeartBoog on Sep 17, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i think you mean
the GOB’s are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling, bastard sprinkles & bastard whip cream on top
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
I still maintain that no one was beating Boston that year.
Not after they came back from down 0-3. We could have had Pujol’s bat with Ryan’s D at every position, and had Waino start every game, and they’d still have gotten over us. It was “Their Time.”
And yes, I know Waino and Ryan weren't Cards then.
Don’t quibble with my details. The point remains the same.
The Cardinals front office seem to be really nice guys
All of them have returned my emails so far…
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Dear mysterui,
Thank you for your interest in joining the great Cardinals baseball franchise. Seeing as you already have experience with the sixth best organization in Major League Baseball, we feel that it would be beneath you to have to work here with us schlubs.
Sincerely,
Moz.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Sep 17, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Yo I'm gonna go hang out with Josh Lueke brb
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
what do they say?
OMG if you get a job there, i expect you to kiss ass to the entire legal department.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
There's no position available right now, etc etc...
I kind of figured, but might as well try
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
"Odd, Mr. Mysterui, one day after you started...
tony got a memo about being fired that appears to be faked."
"Who slipped chloroform onto Tony's ass? Now Aaron Miles is unconscious!"
I don’t know why that was in my brain but whatever I’ll go with it
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Oh god I'm never going to get hired by the Cards
HI JOHN VUCH I’M A GOOD EMPLOYEE I PROMISE
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i'd like a job on KMOX plz, perfect face for radio don't cha know
k, tks, bi
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Somewhat cryptic tweet from Goold:
“Franklin back. He said he’s reconsidered the retirement talk. Said Sutter talked him into it, in part”
he had personal business with Sutter?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
link
http://yourenotagolfer.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/09/franklin_reconsiders.html
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Mr. Freese is scheduled for pre-game
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Is he bringing ice cream?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
hahaha this is really funny
i was thinking about what i wanted for dinner, so, naturally, i googled “what should i have for dinner” and i got this:
whatthefuckshouldimakefordinner.com
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
That is awesome.
I already made dinner though.
Chicken with Angel hair pasta and tomato sauce with a bunch of veggies in it.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
that sounds pretty good, actually. i love angel hair.
other ideas anyone?
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
That link showed me Rosemary Lemon Chicken and potatoes.
That sounded good.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Chicken and dumplings
or bacon.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
heh
Make some fucking
Roast Pork Loin with Garlic and Rosemary
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Well, it sounds like there's a whole lot of the angel you're not even using,
so maybe you should start there.
by BTown Birds fan on Sep 17, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
that actually sounds good for you
i’m going with some nachos, homemade guac, fried sausage/hamburger hybrid, and only a little sour cream/cheese
by YesWeOquendo on Sep 17, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Now I want guacomole.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
it's so easy!
lime+avocado+kosher salt=guacamole!
by YesWeOquendo on Sep 17, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget cilantro!
I don’t have any of those things.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Yeah onion is good.
But no jalepenos. Yuck.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
i do it
avacado + pico de gallo + cottage cheese
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
you can't have guak without some tomatoes
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
by gdm426 on Sep 18, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this sounds fabulous
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
this just in
Freese and The Cat just threw Horton under the bus — for causing the ankles.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
The Cat seems to have paid off Freese handsomely
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
man, i was just rolling all day
i was shitting code like i ate some bad objects and functions for lunch
then i finished the coding i needed to do and started working on a philosophy essay and just hit a brick wall
i’m going to the store
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
philosophy is tough like that
gotta do it in small doses
by YesWeOquendo on Sep 17, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
To buy stuff for guac I'm sure.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
"If I do it wrong just break another toe. Three's my lucky number anyway." -Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
can you pick me up some sinus headache meds? my heads been killing me for two days
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
i regret to inform VEB, but due to the fact that you cannot post pics in fanposts,
the promised Picgasim to end all Picgasims has been put on indefinite hold
again i apologize, but i don’t control SBN & it’s way to big to put in a day or game thread.
you may now go back to having no idea what i am talking about
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
by gdm426 on Sep 18, 2010 12:14 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
"kyle mcclellan has probably proven too valuable in the pen"
adam was a good reliever too, but the rotation was the correct move. a FA reliever to replace kyle is cheaper than re-signing jake, and allows more funds for other needs.
put the two kyle’s at #4 & #5 SP and look to play .500 ball in their starts. the big three’s +20 wins overall, loses it’s value when #4 & #5 SP’s go -10 to -15 wins (lohse’s contract will be in the rotation).
now the 2011funds can go toward fixing the infield and picking up a reliever.
Lohse got to be replaced
Lohse was a Reds reject and the Cardinals picked him up. Once in a long while (like may be every 8 starts), Lohse will pitch a great game. Outside of that, you need to prop him up with at least a 3 run lead in the early inning to give him something to work with. On average, Lohse should be in the high 4.80 to around 5.00 in ERA. He should play the sacrificial lamb role and match against the best pitcher from the other team so that the Redbirds can win the other games. This strategy is better than matching him against the 4th or 5th best from the other team because Redbirds can still end up losing the game.
how are we going to sign 2 starters?
Shelby Miller is too young to promote. Suppan is horrible. who would replace Lohse?
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 20, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm fairly certain Lohse will be better than Lance Lynn next year
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 20, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
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