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Around SBN: NCAA Tournament Bubble Watch

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Mozeliak, Summer School Edition

I know, Ed. It's okay. We're all sad.

Enclosed you will find John's grades for the special summer session just completed. Please take the time to not only review these grades in detail, but also to sit down with your son and discuss the results with him. 

As you know, the special summer session is only open to a select few students, and is a much more challenging and results-oriented course than the usual schooling. Every year we get applicants from all over the country, from locales as far afield and diverse as Seattle and Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Houston. We take only those we feel have done the necessary course work to be able to compete in such a high-level program ahead of time; there are also a few students who manage to test in without our prior approval. My point is this: you should feel proud of John (I'm still getting used to his request not to call him Johnny anymore, haha), for even getting into this program. Plenty of students are left out in the cold. We've had to turn down one student from Toronto several different times over the years simply because while his work was good, it was clear he simply wouldn't be able to compete with the high level of coursework required. 

All that being said, I must admit this is not, strictly speaking, a happy report. While John excelled in his preparatory studies for the summer session, he seemed to wilt a bit when exposed to the high-pressure situation of the class itself. Several times he made poor decisions in an attempt to catch up to the class, leading to further difficulties for himself. He also seems to have a bit of an issue with confidence, as he struggled with one older boy named Anthony who continually bullied John into giving him his lunch money. (Oddly enough, the student doing the bullying then spent John's money on nothing but junk food and cassette tapes, just empty calories and things past their day of being useful. We think he may be struggling with extreme early onset dementia.)

Still, I have enjoyed having John as a student, and I believe in his abilities enough to think with only a bit more work and preparation he could position himself much better in future special class sessions. 

As always, if you have any questions you may contact me directly; my door is always open. John struggled at times this year, but I think if we as parents and educators can keep our own relationship strong we cannot help but pull John through these tough times and into a better future. 

I remain your faithful servant, 

Dr. Eustace V. "Red" Berrohn, retired  (Mrs.) 

Star-divide

I've been putting off doing another of these ridiculous report cards of mine until we were fully past all deadlines for trades and playoff roster moves and everything else. I wanted to do one immediately following the July 31st deadline but thought better of it, preferring instead to get as much information as possible as to the ultimate composition of the 2010 Cardinals before trying to figure out just how to rate it all.

Well, September is finally here, folks, in all her majesty and glory, and now seems to be as good a time as any to take this look back over the season which is now set firmly on a fixed track to the end. No more changes, no more maneuvering. The General Manager's job for 2010 is now officially done. So how did he do? 

In the past, I've struggled to figure out a good system for dividing these things. I've tried to separate free agent signings from trades or retention, I've tried to go with an holistic approach that brings organisational hires into the picture. It's tough to organise something like this most of the time. However, that isn't true this time. 

I've broken the moves into two simple categories this time around: pre-season and in-season. It's simple, it's elegant, and it speaks volumes about the subject in question. We have a rather dramatic dichotomy here, and I would love to know exactly why. 

Pre-Season Moves

In hindsight, it's easy to say we see all the thin spots on this roster, the places where things might go awry. But honestly, coming into the season, I thought this Cardinal team was poised to do great things, be great things, and I think I was justified in thinking so. The roster at the beginning of the 2010 season was a beautiful thing to behold, the product of intelligent planning and a commitment to developing in-house options to fill out the roster margins instead of paying market price or, worse yet, bringing in constant retreads to try and fill holes. 

Matt Holliday -- My worry then, and my worry now, is the length of the deal. Seven years is a very, very long time in baseball years, and there are an awful lot of things that can go wrong over those years. Nevertheless, the Cards finally had their guy, the player they had coveted for quite a while, and there was no way they were going to let him get away. The money is steep, but certainly not out of range. After all, Holliday is the best at his position, one of the better overall players in all of baseball. 

There were plenty of people at the time who complained about this deal, saying the Cardinals were bidding against themselves and there's no way Holliday should have gotten the kind of deal he did. Personally, I don't agree with that. You can try to hold firm on your line, but at some point other teams are going to get involved even if they weren't to begin with simply because the player could represent a serious bargain. I wish we could have gotten Holliday on a five-year deal instead of seven, but I also know enough about how negotiations work to understand that probably wasn't realistic. Signing Matt Holliday makes the Cardinals better for the foreseeable future, and in this particular case that's actually good enough for me. 

Brad Penny -- Wow, this one has really worked out the worst it possibly could have, hasn't it? We look at this deal now and lament the risk this team took with their rotation in bringing in an injured starting pitcher when what we really needed was innings. 

The problem with that, of course, is that at the time this deal was signed Penny was actually the least risky lottery ticket on the pitching market. The sort of guys the Cards were targeting were all pitchers along the lines of Rich Harden and Ben Sheets; outstanding performers with concerns (mostly health-related), which drove their price tags down into an acceptable range. Oddly enough, Rich Harden turned out to probably be the best bet, I suppose, though all three of these guys have missed time this season. (Sheets is out for the year with elbow issues and Penny is presumed deceased.) 

When the Cardinals signed Brad Penny he had thrown more than 170 innings in 4 of the last 5 seasons; he certainly fit the bill of a guy who could give you substantial innings with some solid upside better than either Sheets, who missed all of last season and has seemingly been circling the drain with his health for some time now, or Harden, who is as legendary for his remarkable amount of DL time as he is his performance on the field. You could argue against the logic of taking a risk at all, but I think with Carpenter, Wainwright, and Lohse already under contract you should absolutely be in a position to take on a bit of a lotto ticket. Brad Penny should have been the least risky of those. Oh, well. 

Rich Hill -- Hey, remember when Rich Hill was in line to maybe win a job out of spring training? No? Well, he was. It was weird. I totally believed he would come in and seize the fifth starter's spot, and I was more than a little disappointed when he didn't. Of course, I was only disappointed because I was watching with the eyes that still thought of Hill as the dude we couldn't hit when he was with the Cubs, and that dude is sadly long gone. Still, I thought Hill made a very nice competitor for the back end of the rotation. He had No. 2 stuff once upon a time; if he had been able to regain some semblance of command he easily could have offered a huge boon pitching against the worst pitchers on other teams. Plus, he was a very cheap risk. I still think it was a good shot to take. 

Felipe Lopez -- Perhaps no other player more perfectly encapsulates the story of the 2010 Cardinals than Felipe Lopez. Picked up late in spring training, Lopez was the bargain of the offseason, a strong offensive contributor with actual (rather than Aaron Miles-esque), versatility in the field. The day the Cards picked up Lopez they got stronger and deeper at all three infield positions. 

Five months later, we're all beginning to see why Felipe Lopez seems unable to find a home for more than a season at a time. His defense has been brutal, his hitting has badly fallen off, and while we haven't heard that much about his attitude in the clubhouse or anything, he also doesn't look like a guy who's out there giving it his all on a daily basis. That doesn't mean he isn't, of course; judging a player on how hard it looks like he's playing is dangerous business. Still, there are times when Lopez has pushed us all to the brink. (To be fair, part of that is because he's had to play so much at third, where he seems unusually inclined to throw the ball around the park. He wasn't signed with the intention of starting at the hot corner more than a day or two a week.) 

All in all, even having watched this team implode for these past months I can't find a move I dislike here. I thought Penny was a good bet to have a good season and a much safer bet than some of the other options to give the Cards at least 150ish innings. I suppose you could say Hill was a waste of a spot in spring, but that was also before Jaime Garcia went all Cliff Lee Jr. on us, and Kyle McClellan was seen as the prohibitive favourite to win the fifth starter's job. Felipe Lopez fell into the big club's lap the way Zach Cox fell into the draft guys' laps, and the Cards wisely jumped on both opportunities to add players who long before should have been snatched up. As I said before, I wish the Cards could have gotten Holliday on a shorter deal, but they added the best overall left fielder in the game to their roster on a long-term basis and got him to defer money to lessen the blow a bit. (And yes, I know the Cards still account for that money in this year's budget, so don't bother bringing it up. The reality is they have extra money because of what he deferred, regardless of how they want to put it in the books.) 

The only real caveat I can see here to saying Mozeliak had a brilliant offseason is Kyle Lohse. No, I'm not going to blame him for signing the Lohse deal two years in a row; that's just not fair. But after Lohse struggled so badly last season, I could see an argument that the Cards needed a better option as a sixth starter. Who that would have been I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure there were a few guys on the market they could have picked up. (Or even stashed K-Mac in the rotation in Memphis? If it looks like you're not going to need him bring him back up to relieve? I'm not sure how realistic that idea is, honestly.) Then again, many of us have been clamouring for the Cardinals to use the kids they're developing, and Adam Ottavino seemed the leading candidate to be that first guy up this season. Unfortunately, he got hurt. So maybe there's a bit of criticism to be leveled here, for not having a better first-up option for the rotation, but I think I'm probably saying that now because we know how things worked out. 

Overall, I would give Johnny Mo a B+ for his offseason work. Say what you want about how certain things could have been done differently, but when I look back at that early April roster I see a remarkably good team. I also think, in looking at the Cards' run differential, we have a team that was constructed to be better than this. Why they aren't I don't know, but I'm not sure a different plan in the offseason was going to make the difference. (Philosophically, I also think judging a GM by Pythagorean record is maybe a little more fair than actual record, the same way I think looking at the difference between those two records is at least helpful in trying to evaluate a field manager's performance. Feel free to tell me I'm stupid, though.) 

Mo misses an A or A- in the offseason because I do think the Holliday deal was pretty steep, especially on years. It's tough dealing with Scott Boras, especially when it's the player literally everyone in your organisation seems to have coveted, but if the deal were five years I'd toss an A Mo's way without hesitation. Still, there's absolutely nothing he did I don't believe made the team better, or at least should have made the team better based on what we knew before the season began. 

Offseason Grade: B+ 

In-Season Moves

Oy. Here, things are not so rosy, to say the least. I firmly believe Mo did an outstanding job building a team prepared to not only compete, but win the division going away. The team which took the field on Opening Day was a 93-96 win team, I think. Unfortunately, things fell apart in a big way, and when that happens it falls on a GM to try and patch on the fly. And this is where Mozeliak has really dropped the ball, I think. 

Whereas all of the offseason moves brought with them either depth, or upside, or both, the in-season moves have almost all seemed like steps backward. For perhaps the millionth time I have to wonder what the dynamic in player procurement is between Mo and Tony La Russa, but I'm really in no position to make an assumption there if I'm trying to do honest analysis. I can give my opinion, but it doesn't likely offer a whole lot of value to the discussion. So I have to assume Mozeliak is responsible for all the players he acquires, regardless of the manager's history with roster construction. With that in mind, this is going to be a rough section. 

Jeff Suppan -- Oddly enough, as much as I personally cringe every time I hear the phrase, "Suppan to take the hill tonight for the redbirds, against ___________ of the ___________s," this is actually the move I hate the least, I think. When the Cards acquired Suppan they were in desperate straits, and needed someone to take the ball a couple times and throw some innings. Sure, they were junk innings, but someone had to throw them all the same. Suppan didn't cost anything (eat it, Brewers!), and we knew there would be no Dave Duncan-induced drama here. 

Personally, I still would have preferred the Cards give someone like P.J. Walters a couple more starts to see if he can't find a comfort zone in the majors, but that's offset by the (rather larger) part of me which doesn't believe P.J. Walters is a major league pitcher. Ottavino was already showing signs of being hurt, Lance Lynn hasn't done well for himself in Memphis this season, and Evan MacLane is, well, Evan MacLane. I certainly would have been happy offering MacLane a couple starts just to see if he could pull a Chris Narveson for us, but that could have also been extraordinarily ugly. 

Bottom line, I wasn't happy when the Cards brought in Suppan, but I understood why it was done. Doesn't change how I feel, but I understand it. The shame here, of course, is Adam Ottavino being hurt when all circumstances seemingly were converging to offer him a golden chance. I wish he had been in a position to take advantage of it. 

Aaron Miles -- And here's where things start to really become inexplicable. I know, Aaron Miles is a .300 hitter! And Aaron Miles is a producer! Yeah, I've got all that you want to throw at me. Guess what? He's still not a particularly good baseball player. And staunchly ignoring the fact Miles himself credited the manager's lobbying for his return, I blame Mozeliak for weakening the overall infield by bringing him in. Of course, I will give Mo a small break in that I do expect if Dan Descalso hadn't been hurt at midseason I think he might have gotten a callup, but we'll never really know, will we? 

On the other hand, if Aaron Miles is the last guy on your bench you're probably okay. For all the teeth gnashing Miles engenders 'round these here parts (and I'm more guilty than most, I freely admit), he's not the worst guy in the world to have available late in the game if you need to get a guy into the game who at least owns an infielder's glove. The problem is this: it was basically a question of either Aaron Miles or Tyler Greene, and robber-fighting skills aside, there's just no comparison between the two players. 

Mike MacDougal -- I actually tried to be optimistic when the Cards picked up MacDougal. I really did. I remember watching him a few years back throwing straight gas as his hat popped off his head and thinking, "Man, that guy can really bring it." Certainly an arm like that couldn't be the worst thing in the world, could it? 

Well, what we've seen from MacDougal since he's been here is a pretty perfect explanation of why a guy with his arm is so very well-traveled. He's been terrible, and has taken inning away from a much better reliever in Fernando Salas to boot. Even when Jason Motte got hurt I would have much rather seen the Cards give a guy like Eduardo Sanchez a cup of coffee to audition in a low-leverage role than run the Scarecrow out there. Hell, look at the season Adam Reifer is putting together pitching for Springfield in a pretty strong hitter's park. The jump from Double A to the majors isn't a huge one for a reliever, who's just throwing his best stuff for 12-15 pitches anyway. I would be willing to bet my next VEB paycheck that Reifer could have done a better job than MacDougal; the only problem seems to be he wasn't on the pitching coach's list of guys he's wanted over the years. (A list which included Kip Wells, I feel it necessary to point out.) 

Or, finally, how about Josh Kinney? I myself wrote Kinney off long ago; his brilliant two-month major league career was over, I thought. But then you look at his numbers this season at Memphis and you see a 1.96 ERA, a 0.98 WHIP, and a K/BB rate of better than 3:1. I would like to point out once again we're really only looking for someone to do a better job than Mike MacDougal has done. The bar is not very high. A bad pickup. 

Randy Winn -- Honestly, what does Randy Winn bring to the table? His speed is gone, he's a terrible fielder now, and as a hitter still needs to be both fast and brilliant in the field to have any real value. There has been much discussion of Allen Craig needing more regular at-bats to play well, which is why he should be at Triple A. Well, guess what? If there were no Randy Winn those at-bats just might have existed for Craig all along. Another move for a guy whose only real skill seems to be veteranness, and I just don't understand it. 

Jake Westbrook -- I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I liked the Cardinals trading Ryan Ludwick, even during the season, and I like them acquiring Jake Westbrook. I just kind of wish those had been two separate moves. 

Still, while this is really the one move which somehow seemed to convince everyone Mozeliak is incompetent and possibly mentally defective, I just don't see it that way. The Cardinals absolutely had to do something to shore up their rotation, seeing as how the Suppan acquisition failed to stabilize things and Blake Hawksworth was looking more and more like a guy suffering that mythical 'overexposure' we always hear so much about. Westbrook represented a solid option, a guy who had been a #2-ish pitcher in the past and was looking stronger as he moved further away from Tommy John surgery. He fit the philosophy of the team as well as he rolls up tons of grounders, a measure we all know if very important to the Cards. 

Ryan Ludwick was a very good player who the Cardinals were almost assuredly not going to retain after this season. As such, it made some real sense to move him and try to get value for him now. I liked the move. I just wish the Cards had gotten a little more value for him, you know? 

The thing is, I think the Cards could have made the deal for Westbrook without sending Ludwick to San Diego. I can't imagine the asking price in minor leaguers was particularly significant, and they would have then been free to try and move Ludwick for a promising prospect either from the Padres or someone else. On the other hand, I think some people are conflating Ludwick's quality with Ludwick's value, and those aren't the same thing at all. Related, certainly, but not the same. 

In the end this is what I have to say about the Ludwick for Westbrook deal: it was probably the simplest way to achieve the goal. The goal was to improve the rotation, which the Cardinals did, and if you look at the roster Ludwick was probably the most easily moved commodity they had. I'm not saying the deal made was necessarily the best path, but I do believe it was probably the path of least resistance. Make your own mind up as to how you feel about that. 

Pedro Feliz -- This one hurts me. It really does. It doesn't hurt me because Pedro Feliz has been one of the worst players in the game of baseball the last couple years. It doesn't hurt me because I have to watch him swing the bat in a way my own dear mother laughs at. It certainly doesn't hurt me because we gave up David Carpenter (no offense to the Carpenter family; I'm sure your son is a wonderful person and you're all lovely as well), who is, as far as baseball players go, as fungible a commodity as there has ever been. No, this deal hurts me because the only honest reasoning for it is panic. Panic at watching Felipe Lopez throw the ball away and hearing the rumblings in the stands. Panic at seeing a season which began so promisingly leaking away down the drain and feeling the need to do something, anything, to see if you can't change things up. 

Joe Mather can play third, and he's dreamy. Allen Craig was given exactly one day to try and show he could play third. Tyler Greene can play third, and he's talented. (And you can bitch about Tyler's DL thing all you want; none of us honestly know the story unless someone here is related to him and I don't know it. I have no idea what the real story behind all of that is, and I honestly don't care. If he's hurt, he should be on the DL. If he faked an injury to avoid a demotion, it seems a little shitty to me but he never should have been demoted in the first place so I still don't care.) Descalso is healthy now, and he played third in college. Let him fill in over there for a while. (He's probably a utility guy long-term anyhow, though I'm loathe to downgrade my hopes for him.) Hell, Skip's got a good arm, put him over there. What's that? He can't play third? Never played it before? Well, he can't play second, either, and that didn't seem to stop our coaching staff from putting him there. 

The bottom line is this: there's really no upside to bringing in Pedro Feliz at all. He's been much better than I expected since he got here and he's still terrible. To be fair to him, it is nice to see someone who looks competent at third base in the field, but that doesn't make up for all the other problems he has as a player. I hate to break out that old saw about deck chairs on the Titanic and all, but if ever there was a move that qualified, Pedro Feliz has to be it, I think. 

At the beginning of the season I loved what I saw when I looked at this roster. I could even look at Nick Stavinoha, who I'm not at all a fan of, and say, "Yeah, but he's basically just a pinch hitter. Things could be a whole lot worse." The philosophy behind the roster seemed sound, and the decisions made to get there followed the philosophy. This was a Cardinal team we could get behind, as it was sustainable and looked successful. There was homegrown talent to offset the cost of the high-dollar guys and a nice blend of experience and youth. It seemed like it was going to be a good year. 

Now I look at this roster and not only is it a disaster, it doesn't even look like it was put together by the same people. As the year has gone on nearly every hole has been filled with retreads as better (or at least more interesting), options languish away in the minors or on the bench. I'm not going to criticize for moves that haven't been made; that's heedless speculation and I try to avoid that. Sure Kelly Johnson seems really attractive, but you look at his home/road splits and you have to wonder if you would actually be getting the player he looks like. And even if you did get that guy, the cost might still be steeper than you should pay. I would have loved to have picked up Roy Oswalt, but there were plenty of obstacles to that, too, not least of which is Astros' ownership thinking it somehow matters they would be forced to watch Oswalt pitch against them the next couple seasons. (Memo to the 'Stros: you guys are in rebuilding mode. Worry about what's going to happen once you're good again, not what's going to happen the remaining two months of this season and next year.) 

Overall, for the in-season moves I have to give John Mozeliak a straight D. I know many of you want to just slap a big F on his season, but I think that's too harsh. The Cardinals have had a terrible run of luck this season, a run which anyone would struggle to keep up with, and not all the moves have been awful. However, I certainly couldn't go any higher than a D either, because the roster management this season has been just abysmal. As I said before, what's most distressing to me isn't the fact we have to watch some seriously bad baseball and at least a couple seriously bad players, it's the fact the overall philosophy seems to have been completely abandoned in favour of gritty veterans and hope. Mo is a very smart guy, one whom I've been lucky enough to speak to briefly in my capacity of working for the RFT, and I know for a fact he understands the advanced methods of player evaluation very well. (Much better than I do, to be quite honest.) But the way this roster has evolved over the course of the season has been totally inexplicable, and it makes me wonder just what is going on down at Busch Stadium some days. 

In-season Grade: D 

If I were to average these two grades together, I would likely get something in the neighbourhood of a C+ for Mo on the season, but I'm going to knock that down to a C- overall. I'm not doing that out of spite or to pander to an angry fanbase, I'm doing it because I feel many of the moves made in-season have specifically and directly contradicted so much of the solid, intelligent planning which went into the season. So that's my overall grade for John Mozeliak on the year. A C-. I'm still a big supporter of Mo, to be honest, and I'm glad he's going to be around for awhile longer because I like the overall direction he's moved the organisation in, but I don't think he's done a great job this year. Then again, that applies to many of the players on the field, too, and we have hopes most of them will rebound. I'm looking for a strong offseason for Mo in 2010-2011. Or maybe just hoping. 

Overall 2010 Grade: C- 

So? Fair, too harsh, or Kool-Aid? Bash away, folks. 

Also, I would like to apologise for the lateness of this post. It was long, and I didn't get started until late on it due to real-life scheduling and the like. Sorry about that. Take care. 

The Baron's Playlist for the 1st of September, 2010 

"Go Outside" - Cults (a huge hat tip to Rob Levy for these guys; he played them on Juxtaposition a couple weeks ago and I haven't been able to stop listening to them ever since. This song is available as a podcast, which is largely why I chose it; otherwise you have to somehow find their 7" and I try not to put songs in here that you can't get hold of with a fairly brief effort. Also, if you aren't familiar with Rob's show go and check it out immediately; you can stream it at kdhx.org. He's a big Cardinal fan, too, so we need to band together and comfort a fellow sufferer.) 

That reminds me of a joke, actually, so in order to bring some lightness and fun to this post, here goes. 

Q: Why do record geeks make such lousy lovers? 

A: Because they're always complaining about the seven inches they don't have. 

I love that joke. 

"Then He Kissed Me" - The Crystals (I love Phil Spector records) 

"Heart to Tell" - Love Language (so catchy it's almost criminal) 

"Hurry For the Sky" - Robyn Hitchcock and the Venus Three

"Playground Love" - Air (another song I heard on KDHX just recently and remembered how much I loved it. the rest of the Virgin Suicides soundtrack was alright but didn't really hold my attention, but this song is gorgeous.) 

"The Long Way Home" - Tom Waits

Comment 309 comments  |  12 recs  | 

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rb ftw

2010 cardinals not so much…

..i miss ludriguez-wick..

by d-dee on Sep 1, 2010 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

i think its a fair assessment.

i am also high on mo in general, and hopefully this year was just a hiccup. i would really like to know how much influence tlr has had, and of course to some degree he should have influence. the gm and manager should have good rapport and generally agree with the direction the team is going. but im sure the dynamic between young gm (though mo has been in the org in total for quite some time) and legendary manager is interesting to say the least.

"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial

by Shi on Sep 1, 2010 3:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Me three....

Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue....

by Futility Infielder on Sep 1, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very Good Post

Since we have it on good authority that MO is not stupid, the question is: Why were these stupid moves made? Well, ultimately there’s one guy who has the authority to over-rule MO and that’s DeWitt. When you look at the big picture it seems apparent that someone has persuaded DeWitt that you don’t win championships with farmhands. So we know that DeWitt is the man behind the man. Who is the man behind the man behind the man?

MO has probably done the best that he could under the circumstances.

by Plowboy on Sep 1, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

DFA TLR

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh, come on

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 2, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 2, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

im saying that i don't think Dewitt has anything to do with it

except maybe that he’d choose TLR over Mo and that he doesn’t want to stain the relationship

but that’s pretty much the extent of the blame

by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 2, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

his hands are all up in it

if you’ve ever heard him or mo’ talk about how they operate, it’s pretty clear that they are more of a partnership when it comes to decision making. maybe dewitt doesn’t sign the optioning paperwork, but he has just as much of a say as mo’ and probably the final say

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 2, 2010 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

just don't be surprised if it's more simulair than you thinik it will be.

I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill

by Evilfrog on Sep 1, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

i might not be surprised.

but then at least i would know who to blame.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Sep 1, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I need to be impressed

so far, me no likey MO

Fire John Mozeliak up a nice steak, or stake ( haven't decided)

by mattyfrommo on Sep 1, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

he needs to get tony fired

then he’d be a real GM

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would love to see TLR not be the manager

Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?

by jd is legend on Sep 1, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

this

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough

one more factor i see is that some in the org feel like some of the minor league guys need more AAA time and might fold permanently if promoted too soon, a la allen craig (looking AAAAish these days). hence, fill the holes with “vets”. hard call, like hurt or help to give carp-2 some ml time at 3rd?

also, as you said, proof in the pudding, so without injury, floppy turned out to be floppy when he played a whole season on one team. he’’s looked more like nationals floppy than AZ or brewer floppy this year. weird, but hardly surprising.

last, can’t get on jmo about pitching too much, but truth be told he counted on garcia, penny, lohse (all trying to come back form injury). 2 of 3 didn’t make it. unlucky to some extent, unwise as well.

and last and least, gotta give grit credit for outperforming his peripherals, regardless of how or why.

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Sep 1, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Baron nails it!

 Great post, well worth the delay. I sometimes think Mozeliak gets a hall pass simply because he’s looked at as a “nice guy” or something. But this analysis is a fair and accurate look at his job performance. If I have any questions at all, they would be along the lines of: “what does it take to fail in this school?”

by deweydell on Sep 1, 2010 4:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Crippling your franchise for multiple years.

Omar Minaya sort of behaviour, in other words.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Sep 1, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jim Hendry as well?

Baseball makes the world go 'round, or at least in my world it does.

by Whiteyballer on Sep 1, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can he be a failure

if the franchise is still really profitable?

by sdrone on Sep 1, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

He can. Ownership can't in this case

Baseball makes the world go 'round, or at least in my world it does.

by Whiteyballer on Sep 1, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

we just lost 3 to drayton's young team, ugh "F" on that one

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Sep 1, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes, thank god none of his gaffes are franchise crippling at least.

i was one of the few who was for the lohse deal at the time, and time has shown that i was wrong. signing an innings eater for a one or two year deal is decent policy, but for 4 years, and at that price? durability, especially for a pitcher, is just too fleeting. but if that turns out to be his worst big contract, i could definitely live with it. i mean, the best part is that its essentially already half over!

"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial

by Shi on Sep 1, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where does re-signing Albert Pujols fit into this line of thinking?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Sep 1, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see how he could be considered a failure

I mean my god we’re not the Mets.

MAN I wish we could somehow separate filter out the TLR effect. We just can’t quantify it.

by sdrone on Sep 1, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well right off the bat now you've got me wondering about Kinney

Anyone seen thin this year? He still got that killer off speed pitch? Can he get his fastball above 90mph?

by sdrone on Sep 1, 2010 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm grateful even for shitty Cardinal baseball, since even shitty

Cardinal baseball occasions great RB posts like this one. Awesome job, RB.

Love the music choices today too. Can never get enough Tom Waits, and I will always associate The Crystals’ Then He Kissed Me with that awesome tracking shot in Goodfellas.

by mattyp on Sep 1, 2010 4:26 PM EDT reply actions  

That's an awesome scene.

Love the whole movie, but there are a couple musical moments in there that are just almost too good.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Sep 1, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you were a little too kind with the in-season grade.

It has to be a big fat F, as he did nothing to improve the team, only made it worse. You can blame it on Tony if you want, but at the end of the day, Mo is the GM, not Tony. Even if Tony pushed for Aaron Miles, Randy Winn, etc., Mo didn’t have the backbone to say no, so it is all on his shoulders. Maybe DeWitt put Mo in a situation where he couldn’t spend… that’s tough for Mo to deal with, but if that’s the case, I still think he could have made a few impact moves (either that, or make no moves, and use the young talent that you have, which didn’t happen obviously when Miles, Winn, Feliz, MacDouggal, etc. are on your 25 man roster). He did a horrible job this summer IMO, so I give him an F.

By the way we’re ending the season, it looks like Mo and the FO have a lot to think about this offseason and they have a lot of work ahead of them.

Thanks for the post RB

Padres' RFL for GG!

by stxcardsfan on Sep 1, 2010 4:57 PM EDT reply actions  

at least Westbrook pretty much worked out

if the offense could score runs

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

it depends on how you look at it, as I think it's a wash.

Westbrook has been fairly effective and has eaten innings, but our offense took a big hit with the loss of Ludwick. Mo gambled on a Freese return and a lucky Jay to replace the loss of Luddy, and he lost. The Westbrook acquisition made the rotation better, but it made the offense worse, meaning the team as a whole did not improve.

Padres' RFL for GG!

by stxcardsfan on Sep 1, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

i disagree

it’s worked out pretty much as good as possible concerning strictly the three important players of the trade

Jay > Ludwick SO FAR
Westbrook has been #2 excellent SO FAR

in hindsight, he has to be given a B+ SO FAR again

by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 1, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Jay's numbers look better(even though Jay is quickly falling back to earth)

but Luddy was comfortable here, and was in a comfortable situation. Here, he was expected to be the 3rd or 4th best bat in the line-up, but he was traded to the Padres in the hope that he’d be their 2nd best bat. Plus, he was sent to the most pitcher friendly park in the league, which definately hurts him. All the while, Jay has been over-exposed, and we’re seeing his luck quickly fade.
Yes, Westbrook has pitched well for the Cards, but that really doesn’t matter when Westbrook and the rest of the rotation have no one driving in runs for them.

Padres' RFL for GG!

by stxcardsfan on Sep 1, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Being the second-best bat for St. Louis in 2008 didn't seem to faze Ludwick.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Sep 1, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

a starting rotation guy > position player in almost all cases

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

pretty much

an average, 200 IP, pitcher is more valuable than a average .325 wOBA IMO

by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 1, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

How did he make the team worse?

Really, how? I think it is fair to blame Mo for not making the team better in-season, although I’m not sure that there were deals to be had.

But how did he make the team worse? Who on the farm would outperform Miles, Winn, Feliz, and Suppan? MacDougal, I’ll give you, I suppose. But wishcast on Joe Mather as much as you want, he’s no better bet to field 3B or hit major-league pitching than any of the 25th men on our roster. There’s not a pitcher in the system that is a good bet to pitch better than Suppan has.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Sep 1, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

the problem was not entirely mo's fault. after all, they gave walters, ottavino, and hawksworth a shot in the rotation before acquiring suppan

one could argue they exhausted their internal options for pitching first. now why they did not do the same w/r/t 3rd base…who the eff knows

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Sep 1, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Cards went into the season with a rotations of 5 starters who had serious time on the DL.

The miracle is that only two went down. Team did not have adequate back ups nor the resources or wherewithal to obtain insurance.

An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.

HL Mencken

by akaitori on Sep 1, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

...
Who on the farm would outperform Miles, Winn, Feliz, and Suppan?

Greene, Craig, Carpenter and, well, anyone.

Fire Tony La Russa

by vivaelpujols on Sep 1, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Flo from Progressive, Brett Favre, and a Real Doll.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Sep 1, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, Craig hasn't

Matt Carpenter? What are his MLEs? Greene hasn’t either, for that matter, and was hurt besides.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Sep 1, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

OMG

Greene has…. he has a higher OBP and higher slugging percentage in his time than aaron miles currently has

greene has been getting neutral luck and aaron miles has been pretty lucky

i don’t understand… only in BA is Miles better and BA is worthless right now

by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 1, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had no problem with Suppan as a cheap, quick, short term fill-in

Randy Winn? That’s easy, Jon Jay. Had Luddy not been traded, our OF corp would still be Holliday, Rasmus, Luddy, Jay, Craig/Stav. Instead, we got Winn, and tried to use Jay and Craig to replace Luddy’s production. You can argue that Winn didn’t make the team worse, but he didn’t improve it, as Jay or Craig were already available to fill that spot, so why make that move in the first place? If Winn isn’t around, I don’t think the Cards trade Luddy, as we wouldn’t have had the outfield depth to really do so. Winn forced us to make a move b/c we had oh-so-much outfield depth available.

Miles? I think you go with either Tyler Greene or Descalso (healthy after the DL stint) with this one. Miles has over-preformed with the bat (spraying weak singles around the shallow outfield grass), but both Greene and Descalso’s bats have higher upside (more power potential) and their defense (and probably base running and bunting) is (are) superior to Miles.

Feliz is a tough one, but I think Mo failed with this move when they did not try T. Greene there first. It’s tough to say he’s truly hurting the team, as he’s only been around for less than 2 weeks, but his offense definitely doesn’t help our struggling offense.

I think the Westbrook/Ludwick trade was a wash (see comment above)

MacDougal, easy, Salas or Kinney was the better option there.

As a whole, I think the moves made us worse, maybe not significantly worse, but worse. He sure as hell didn’t make things better with these moves, which is still a failure imo. his job is to address a need and improve the team, and he didn’t. At best, he only tread water, while he let the core of the team drown.

Padres' RFL for GG!

by stxcardsfan on Sep 1, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

AHH you're seriously killing me

GREENE HAS BEEN BETTER

Comparisons
wOBA – Greene (.347 > .314)
OBP – Greene (.359 > .357) this is the most amazing part to me
SLUG – Greene (.412 > .365)
BABIP – Miles (.354!!! > .296)
BB% – Greene (9% > 5.2%)
SB (for good measure) – Greene (2 > 0)

Miles also leads in average (.327 > .265) but with his BABIP luck and the fact that Greene STILL GETS ON BASE MORE… its essentially worthless… also Miles strikes out less but that literally means nothing in this case

by stlcardsfan4 on Sep 1, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   3 recs

bravo

I was of the mind that Greene (around the time he was playing a lot of SS) and Craig (immediately after the Ludwick trade) were going to come in and save us

I’ve been wrong about so much this season

by infallibleopiniongenerator on Sep 1, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait, what?

Are you saying that acquiring Randy Winn made Ryan Ludwick expendable in the FO’s mind?

That’s crazy talk.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Sep 1, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

man you have a good memory to remember the

actual roster positions when each move occurred…nice job

by guillermozeliak on Sep 2, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

holy crap

I totally forgot about Rich Hill

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Great analysis...

…well done. Agree with almost all of it.

The most disturbing part of the Ludwick trade is that I read somewhere that the Padres GM was bugging the crap out of Mo for Ludwick and when he couldn’t get a one-on-one deal going, worked on the Indians.

We’ll never know for sure, but it seems Mo got outhustled on the deal and settled for what was in front of him.

As is stated above, surely Mo could have gotten Westbrook without giving up Ludwick and then possibly used Ludwick for an infield bat.

by jackclark on Sep 1, 2010 5:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed.

We’ll never know for sure, I suppose, but it feels to me like with a little more creativity a better deal probably could have been made. Maybe not, though.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Sep 1, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

all I wanted was one more prospect. one more guy.

now I am busy watching whether my prophecy will come to pass. magic 8 ball says “most likely.”

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

where did you read that?

Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was in the PD....

Pads had been after Luddy for a couple of weeks.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I watch that catch against the scoreboard-wall

and think of those ex-Sauks bastards steepling their fingers, coveting him.
…wick.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

It started the other way around, apparently
Hoyer said it was the Padres’ pitching depth that originally set the trade in motion. Several weeks earlier Hoyer said the Cardinals called him looking for a pitcher. Though Hoyer felt the Padres couldn’t part with any of their arms, he believed there was potential for a match with St. Louis for Ludwick

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's not a PD story

Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know it wasn't what I read before,

but it’s what I found quickly.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe I read it from FESP

which was linked on mlbtr. from Stark:

So how did Ludwick wind up in San Diego? The Padres had been monitoring Ludwick’s recovery from a calf injury and asked the Cardinals about him several times but couldn’t find a match.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

those do nothing but make me feel worse about the deal

Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

It sure as fuck does.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

A quick note on the playlist

if anyone happens to check out that Cults song and really likes it, you can find another of their works here. I was unaware that Adult Swim apparently included Cults in their singles program this summer. (Which I paid attention to for about two weeks and then promptly forgot about.)

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Sep 1, 2010 5:11 PM EDT reply actions  

baseball stuff to watch!

Our season in nothing but highlight reels:
http://mlb.mlb.com/multimedia/tp_archive.jsp?c_id=stl

(oddly some of those “highlights” are not positive, but it’s fun if you ignore the score.)

The minor league system is still in it. I regretted not paying attention last year till almost to the Brickyard. now it’s not too late.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/affiliates/index.jsp?c_id=stl

Three games start at 6pm CT.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 5:13 PM EDT reply actions  

yes, the springfield cardinals lost ground last night to Tulsa.

Memphis lost too. Hope this shit isn’t catching.

It’s exciting that both teams are in the playoff hunt in their leagues. Maybe next year, some of them can help energize St. Louis. I’m starting to warm up to the idea of Pop Warner as the next coach. I keep hearing good things.

"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright

by spfldbird on Sep 1, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

When the season started,

we all looked at the roster and said, well Nick Stavino as the 25th man isn’t that big of a deal. Then we added 6 or 7 more 25th men. It seems that the season is surely over, so I will look forward to the off season. If Albert doesn’t sign this winter, I’m of the opinion that he’s done in STL.

Little Johhny has quite a bit of homework ahead of him to keep up with the class.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 5:17 PM EDT reply actions  

It's a pyramid scheme

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep.

Internet money in the bank, baby!

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Sep 1, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

all the main posters do

that’s why we pay our dues. What’s that you say, you didn’t pay your dues? Send your credit card information to me and I will handle that for you.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Sep 1, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, how else would we get sweet content like this:

it’s never too late, though

in the subject field, enter [name on card]
in the post body, enter [cc number]##[expiration in mm/dd/yy format]##[3-digit security code]

???

profit!

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 1, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

me and danup have an "understanding"

sometimes someone will drop off/pick up some baseball fan fictions of a questionable nature

he doesn’t ask me for monthlys

by YesWeOquendo on Sep 1, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's heavy

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

for veb platinum members' eyes only

“rick ankiel and the chamber of secrets” is my personal favorite—but then, it’s like asking about a favorite child.

by DanUpBaby on Sep 2, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

R&R pllzzz!

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 2, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

one shot, complete, h/hr a/l tlr/dd

VEB’s two day probationary window for accounts is really killing my fanfiction reviews

by DanUpBaby on Sep 2, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

........I'll leave this to the rest of VEB to decipher.

it is an off-day after all.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 2, 2010 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

what a beautiful and illuminating image you've contained in your post

this season makes a lot of since now I can see the organizations plan for the next decade ever so clearly now.

Praise be I ordered my VEB Gold account. It’s certainly brought much needed meaning to my life.

by infallibleopiniongenerator on Sep 1, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice Job

although it leaves out the whole issue of roster management. Reading it without the day to day knowledge of what happened, the moves all seem rather benign. But then you throw the mad scientist TLR into the mix: and it looks like this: Lopez at SS, Luddy sitting early, colby sitting late, double-switches for no apparent reason, Craig batting leadoff, lohse in LF, Miles everywhere, Skip moving back to outfield, pitcher bats eighth, Albert is always batting with the pitcher in the on-deck circle, etc, etc. No one gets DFA’s, no one stays, no one leaves —just a russian roulette roster and lineups every night that look like the results of a Bill James random number simulator

Just win

by The Duke on Sep 1, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions  

This reads like a big

stream of consciousness rant. And the scary thing is, it’s 100% accurate. This. Stuff. Actually. Happened.

by goodymobb on Sep 1, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

You could make an argument that Mo was very constrained by the parameters that TLR would accept.

Mo has no choice but to get along with his HOF manager. If it came to a shoving match who would DeWitt side with?

Mo tried put Craig on the roster early in the year and Tony hardly played him. I think he started 3 games. Mo brought him up again, and he was sent down the next day. I don’t remember all the details with Greene but there were several games before he (Greene) hit the DL that I was wondering why Greene didn’t play instead of Floppy.

FWIW I think Mo did what he had to do and get by the best he could with a manager he was at odds with. So we got Miles, Winn, Soup and Feliz instead of someone from memphis. At least I hope Mo was at odds with TLR over all this. /grimace

Now, if this situation continues on to next year, I would blame DeWitt. He has to fork out more money to hire TLR’s veterans or tell TLR to STFU and play the kids.

"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright

by spfldbird on Sep 1, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is somewhat revisionist history

i don’t have time to look at the game logs…but maybe i will later. but IIRC, t greene got a lot of playing time when he was up here, as did craig during his third stint (that second one didn’t really count). greene had a hand/wrist injury for several games before heading to the DL, otherwise he played, and over boog even.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Sep 1, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

well I suppose I could have come up with better examples but I don't think I revised history.

My point is we had alternatives to Miles (I don’t think Greene was on the roster when Miles was promoted from Springfield. Correct me if I am wrong.) Winn (I don’t think Craig was on the roster when Winn was signed.) Feliz, you got a point, there wasn’t a good choice for 3rd base, although some would argue for giving Craig a shot. But again, Greene was coming off the DL in something like two days when they signed Feliz.

I guess it’s incorrect to say that TLR didn’t play the young’uns at all. He would try them and if they didn’t catch fire ala Jon Jay, then he preferred a veteran.

I’ll go later and look up how many games Craig and Greene started vs. Miles and Winn. I do remember Greene starting a few games for a while when Boog was in the doldrums. I’m not sure what you are referring to by Craig’s third stint. I’ve lost track of how many times he’s been up and down.

"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright

by spfldbird on Sep 1, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

i guess my point was just that when the "young guys" were on the 25-man roster, they played

now, whether TLR had any say over who was on that roster or not, we can’t really know. which is why i would like to see how Mo handles the team w/o TLR managing. but you can’t really say “tell Tony to STFU and play the kids” when he DID do just that – when the kids were in STL to play.

i agree that acquiring miles and winn were unnecessary decisions that affected (in theory) the kids’ playing time, but in truth, i don’t think winn has gotten that many starts over jay/craig. other than when colby was hurt, jay was starting over winn basically every day since luddy got traded. if T greene was on the 25-man, i doubt miles would be getting many starts (if any) over him. but miles is on the team now and greene isn’t. and again, who really knows how much influence tony had over that decision.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Sep 1, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now that I think about it I am reacting more to roster positions than playing time.

I would like to see TLR play the young guys instead of optioning them to memphis so he can add a veteran to the roster. So they play when they are here and then they disappear. When someone returns from the DL, then Craig or Greene or Stavinoha gets optioned rather than DFA Miles etc.

I kinda got interested in how this all falls out, so I’ve started putting together a timeline.

For the purposes of our discussion, Greene did have a stretch from July 2 to July 17 where he played quite a bit. started 14 games.

Craig has been the bouncing ball, going from here to memphis.
He hasn’t started many games until after Ludwick was shipped out. 3 in April and 5 in July, 10 in August.

"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright

by spfldbird on Sep 1, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

baseball-reference.com defense lineup

link. This shows game by game defensive lineups and has the top three players at each position (forgot Winn started 7 games in center granted Rasmus was hurt for the dodgers series).

Freese’s injury really opened up the team’s weaknesses. Lopez had to go FT at 3B, leaving a Schu/Miles platoon at 2B while Boog tried to get out of his funk by sharing time with Greene.

by ubeddie on Sep 1, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

that page is terrific.

"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright

by spfldbird on Sep 1, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

money standpoint was a wash

Since they were all released, Soup, Miles and Winn all cost the Cards the same as Otto, Greene and Craig would have.

Once acquired though, the cost to the Cards to dfa any of the veterans would have been the pro rated major league minimum. Still not much money compared to hosting a postseason game or two. I would have given the rookies more time (all star break) before committing to picking up players that no other team was chasing.

by ubeddie on Sep 1, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought the Cardinals had to pay a prorated part of their salary.

"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright

by spfldbird on Sep 1, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

prorated league minimum

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 1, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Cards pay prorated

part of the major league minimum. The former team pays the rest of the contract for the dfa’d player.

by ubeddie on Sep 1, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I just went and read about this.

"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright

by spfldbird on Sep 1, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

So I have my Beatles class at 4:00 today

Best. Class. Ever.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions  

The professor basically tells us the history of the Beatles, telling stories that can be confirmed by multiple sources

Then he tells us the backstories of some of the songs and then we listen to them.

We’re only at the first album right now, which was all recorded in one day. I never realized how much I love the song “Please Please Me” until I actually took this song

Contrast the harmonica usage in this song with that in “Love Me Do.” In Please Please Me, the harmonica was superimposed over the track, so John was able to sing and play guitar at the same time, giving the song a “fuller” sound

In “Love Me Do,” which was recorded earlier, they didn’t superimpose the harmonica, so they had to compose the song to adjust for that. That’s why despite almost the entirety of the song being sung as a duet, Paul is the one singing the phrase “Love Me Do,” immediately preceding the harmonica

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

LSD

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which apparently are the same thing >_>

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

derp indeed

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

FAIL

Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?

by jd is legend on Sep 1, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

So's your face

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

ummmmmm.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lake Shore Drive?

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

That sounds awesome

I would love to take a class like that for Neil Young or Tupac.

Fire Tony La Russa

by vivaelpujols on Sep 1, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

We have a Dylan class too

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn't fit into my schedule

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

change your schedule!

Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: Rasmus 8, Jay 9, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, Beltre 5, Molina 2, Ryan 6, Craig 4, pitcher

by gocards62 on Sep 1, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I feel like I've heard about those sorts of classes for Pink Floyd and Bruce Springsteen too

My artist of choice would be Tom Waits, but he’s so secretive and such a bullshit artist in interviews that it might be hard to find confirmed stories. But I’d settle for just chilling out listening to all his albums….

by BTown Birds fan on Sep 1, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ther's some great stories

about John wrecking his voice on Twist and Shout when you get there.

Beatles recorded most of those first albums in a couple of days — and they had an uncanny ability of taking a so-so arrangement and tweaking it to turn it into a hit. If you listen to the anthology series you can listen to the evolution.

John and Paul also didn’t really like giving George a tune on every album because he was an inferior writer which is quite apparent on the first few albums. Funny how in his later years he wrote some of their most famous stuff.

Just win

by The Duke on Sep 1, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I find that I'm most fascinated by what went on in Hamburg

That was true rock and roll… playing 8 hours in a row, sex, drugs

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

sounds like a grand time — I think there is only one tape that exists of their days there and its not very good. Everyone who saw them said they brought the house down night after night.

That’s really what the whole rooftop concert for Let it Be was all about. Paul was trying to get the group to go back to the Hamburg rock and roll model and hit the road to play small clubs.

Just win

by The Duke on Sep 1, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I visited the area around where they used to play in Hamburg

the red light district, called the Reeperbahn. Highly, highly recommended.

by mattyp on Sep 1, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Anthology is lots of fun.

I really like how they included the version of “I’ll Be Back” that was in a waltz time signature (3/4? 6/8? I know little about music theory stuff) and was too hard for John to sing… so they just went ahead and rewrote it in 4/4.
I have a theory that John was the only Beatle who wrote songs in waltz time signatures. I haven’t confirmed it but I think I am at least on to something.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Sep 1, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

sounds like a great class to catch up on some sleep

Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I took an Elvis class in college.

John Lennon said that without Elvis there would be no Beatles.

by spants on Sep 1, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh no doubt

Lonnie Donegan – Rock Island Line as well… this is known as “Skiffle,” which the Quarrymen were considered

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally, I've always liked

‘Broken Face.’

I… I got a broken faaaace. Uh huh, I gotta broken faaaace.

Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

by Vindicator9000 on Sep 1, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too many to name.

However, if you want to know my absolute favourite, I spent hours upon hours upon hours learning how to impersonate Black Francis singing “Here Comes Your Man.” It may be the single least representative song in their entire catalogue, as it lacks surf influence, menace, or a curiously affecting bassline, but I’ve loved that song since the first moment I heard it when I was ten on my cousin Dwayne’s stereo.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Sep 1, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

also love

Bone Machine, Gigantic, Tame (the line “hips like Cinderella” always reminds me of my friend Luke’s younger sister, who I had a huge crush on for a long time, though I have no idea why that line means anything), Nimrod’s Son, Alec Eiffel, and Debaser. I would add Wave of Mutilation, but that hardly seems fair, sort of like saying your favourite Nirvana song is Smells Like Teen Spirit.

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

by the red baron on Sep 1, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

When the end of "Fight Club" happened and that song came on, I was at once thrilled and disappointed.

Now, the commercial HBO did for The Dark Knight with “Where Is Mind?,” on the other hand, I love. But that is because of a Batman bias.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Sep 1, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

These are all very good choices.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Sep 1, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gauge away

followed closely by Alec Eiffel.

Death to the Pixies is the pride of my vinyl collection.

I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill

by Evilfrog on Sep 1, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

One other thing….

Although I think most of this is Mo’s fault, I would fault Tony for this: He seemed to believe as most of us that this was a 95-100 win team and he managed like it. Several early to mid-season extra inning games were almost given away by Tony “taking the long view.”

From here on out he needs to play Tyler Greene at third and get more at bats for Allen Craig. Yes, Craig fell flat, but he still hasn’t had that many ABs and he’s the only guy we have on the bench that has offensive upside. Also, for God’s sake, sit Yadi down a little more in favor of Anderson.

by jackclark on Sep 1, 2010 5:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Too bad neither Craig or Greene are on the roster.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

tlr tends to sub and rotate and switch players

as if they were interchangeable good, and they are not
as stated above, not too bad with stav as 25th man and pinch hitter
except that is not the tlr way
if on the roster he will start, he will end up a late inning replacement when we are behind and when we are ahead and need defense
inex f’in splicable

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Sep 1, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

mysterui...

my mariners friend informs me that part of the FO had adopted the cardinals as their team to root for since the mariners were out of it by May….did you have anything to do with this?!

she postulates that their adoption has jinxed us.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Sep 1, 2010 6:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh yeah, they told me about this... the sales team, actually. Had a friend up there. Should've mentioned it here, I suppose...

I’m a curse, aren’t I?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Until I get a job there and the circle is completed?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

We are the 6org

Resistance is futile.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Sep 1, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree with all of this.

i will point out that the only thing worse, this season, than watching felipe lopez play third would have been NOT watching felipe lopez play third.

while he may now induce a hearty “meh” from cardinal nation, watching ruben gotay all year or tyler greene or (more likely and even worse) some appalling traded-for veteran like melvin mora or pedro feliz from june on would have been markedly worse.

"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."

by tom s. on Sep 1, 2010 7:34 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree.

And while Lopez’s play could be a tad frustrating to watch, it was hard for me to want to take it out on him. Injuries forced into too much playing time and at that position. Plus, he’s had his own injuries to deal with. Tough season for Flippy.

by spants on Sep 1, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

it appears that the cardinals have lost another game

as someone who checked the box score between classes when it was 2-0 and 2-1, color me unsurprised

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 1, 2010 7:35 PM EDT reply actions  

shit, I didn't even realize the Cards played a day game today

not that I missed much. Worst part is that Albert’s average is back down to .313 according to ESPN

by mattyp on Sep 1, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea,

I’m afraid the hot streak is over. I just hope he doesn’t fall all the way back to June cold.

by ArkansasTravs on Sep 2, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bissinger tweeted last week

that TLR is “losing interest” in baseball. Said it was “conjecture.”
Does this means Tony’s done? Is it still his choice to return?

Your 2011 St. Louis Cardinals: Rasmus 8, Jay 9, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, Beltre 5, Molina 2, Ryan 6, Craig 4, pitcher

by gocards62 on Sep 1, 2010 7:42 PM EDT reply actions  

bissinger tweets some really odd and baseless shit from time to time

conjecture means its just his opinion.

that said, i think tony must realize he’s not getting the response he once was.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Sep 1, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

"I'm still a big supporter of Mo, to be honest, and I'm glad he's going to be around for awhile longer because I like the overall direction he's moved the organisation in, but I don't think he's done a great job this year."

Well put. Next year’s success may well be determined just on whether or not they bring Tony back, I suspect.

Could Colby Rasmus hit a ball so hard that even he couldn't catch it?

by Cardinals645 on Sep 1, 2010 8:04 PM EDT reply actions  

fucking, wow

this requires chrome, firefix 4 or any other HTML5 compliant browser. really amazing showcase of what can be done in HTML5 with a neat little personalized twist. even better if you like the arcade fire.

seriously, click on that link. really rural addresses might not work, so i’d use an address in a city that you lived in at one point

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 1, 2010 8:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Pretty cool

Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?

by jd is legend on Sep 1, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't remember ever seeing that guy running on my street

But I did discover from watching it that one of the empty lots on each side of my childhood home now has a house on it, and that my formerly rural hometown now looks like a suburb of Kansas City.
Also, I’ll second the legendary jd – it was pretty cool.

by BTown Birds fan on Sep 1, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

ya...thanks for that.....

It had my house, outside of town in BFE, MT.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dayum.

You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch.

by The Continental on Sep 1, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

fuck google is taking over the world

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Sep 2, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

cards pass on

lilly
bush

tg we didn’t need any pitching

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Sep 1, 2010 8:34 PM EDT reply actions  

not sure if serious

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 1, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

lily or even bush

instead of lohse or soup
seems would have been a good thing
maybe too expensive for ted, but bush?

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Sep 1, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah

so we can lose 3-0 instead of 6-0

lilly is seriously declining, anyway. i’d rather have bush

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 2, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Memphis gameday!

sorry, late.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/y2009/index.jsp?gid=2010_09_01_nozaaa_mrbaaa_1

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 8:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Springfield gameday!

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/y2009/index.jsp?gid=2010_09_01_spraax_tulaax_1

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 8:57 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah, Memphis is winning. Springfield is winning.

"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright

by spfldbird on Sep 1, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

(random) there will come a time

a cold, bleary, dark age
when Ozzie Ordinary Time has lost its charming newness
when VEBers fight over the last scraps of Rumorsgiving before the Winter Warmup
when there will be
no baseball.

if someone wants moar baseball that won’t compel any eye-gouging or primal screams, there is the baseball, however far removed from the Guys in the Truck.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'd just really rather not watch any baseball

Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'll watch the Rays

Fire John Mozeliak up a nice steak, or stake ( haven't decided)

by mattyfrommo on Sep 1, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 1, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

good for you all, but i'm just not feeling it

Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dibble was shown the

door.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 9:01 PM EDT reply actions  

He made them before the diagnosis,

but, ya

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

My first thought was how could anyone possibly be so stupid as to expect him to pitch through an injury that required TJ surgery? It eventually dawned on me that he must have said them before the UCL diagnosis, but even then, what kind of an idiot/asshole would want a once-in-a-generation pitching talent who’s made 12 MLB starts to pitch his way through an elbow problem? I never had the impression Dibble was the smartest guy in the world, but my God, that’s stupid.

by BTown Birds fan on Sep 1, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was on the next morning defending/backpedaling himself

as well. It really was stupid….you gotta pitch through the pain, but I don’t mean it if he’s hurt.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Top Chef's going to Natstown!

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 9:17 PM EDT reply actions  

...last week?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was busy.

there were errands I had to take care of outside the basement. still haven’t gotten my shovel clean.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

these chefs think Adam Dunn is cute.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

really?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

now they're feeding each other.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

with creative editing, it's like the Nats are a good team

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Must be Russians

Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?

by jd is legend on Sep 1, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

it was a little bizarre. I guess I've just seen Adam Dunn around for a while

and never seen him get a reaction like he was Joe Mather walking in.

unless they were talking about Lannan.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

what is with these guys and pea puree?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow, that sucked.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reds up 4-1

after homer by Hanigan in bottom of 7th.

by ubeddie on Sep 1, 2010 9:29 PM EDT reply actions  

in other news Memphis and Springfield are still ahead in their games.

Memphis game is 6-4 top of 5th. Springfield 2-1 top of 6th.

"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright

by spfldbird on Sep 1, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

i will not bash you RB for being generous to MO & only giving him an B+, D & C- overall

1. because you’ve met MO & had the chance to talk things out a bit & if you say he knows what he’s doing, you’re looking at things under a lot different light than most here so i must take your word for it.

2. not only are you my favourite editor at VEB, you’re also my favourite poster. (with apologies to my bro, son & too many friends to list, i cant name you all because i’ll leave someone out & i dont want to hurt anyone’s feelings) you’re musical taste is second to none & you’re whit, humor & intelligence is right at the top of the VEB rankings. (side note, i wonder if we should sometime come up with a best of VEB list? i’d be interested to see what that looked like) so right away i generally agree with 90%+ of what you have to say.

but i must disagree here with your impressions & grades of MO. starting with the offseason resigning of Lego. what we were all fearing came true, the Cardinals were in fact bidding against themselves for his services. i don’t care what Boras said, there was no mystery east coast team ready to give him a 1y $17+Mil deal. Mo could have, and should have gone no more than 5 years. i don’t care if Lego is the best LF in the game, that’s still not saying much. there were cheaper options in house that could do the very same thing he does, only they aren’t a famous “name” and have stats inflated by playing in one of the best hitters park in the game & playing in one of the worst divisions in the game.

since this is the end of the season i also disagree with the Floppy signing. sure he was cheap & sure he was projected to be better, but the fact of the matter is he didn’t live up to his projections. and no, it’s not just because i know he’s a gigantic douche who lollygags around the diamond that i sit here now & say it was a bad move. if he had indeed lived up to his projections & played the way everyone thought he would have played i would be more than willing to say good job MO, he was a good pic up. but he didn’t so i can’t & won’t. he was a bad pick up & he’s a bad guy & i do not apologize for it.

i agree with the Penny move & totally forget about Hill. but i remember at the time i hated it if only because he was coming off a bad injury & i didn’t think it was healed. and he also came up & played for those stupid loser north side bears. that alone was enough for me not to like that move.

all in all i give MO a D for the offseason moves.

while Mo cannot control what happens mid season with regards to injured players, he can control what the team does when said players get injured. be it by replacing them with players from the minors or getting new ones via trade, it’s Mo’s job to make the best moves for the team. and this season MO pretty much made the worst possible moves he could have possibly made.

it starts with having good solid back ups in the minors. and the Cards clearly don’t have anyone in Memphis or Springfield that are MLB ready that play the IF or can start. that is a failure on Mo & also a big fail on Luhnow’s part. it is their job to have MLB ready backups & they failed epically in an area where the Cards needed them to come through the most. it is because of those failures that Mo was forced to bring in the likes of Soup, Feliz, Aaron Fucking Miles, Macgruber, & Winn. but two wrongs do not make a right. just because Mo & Luhnow failed, doesn’t give them the right or free pass to fail when they go diving in the MLB Dumpster of Fail. LB said it best, if making no move leaves you no worse for wears than making a bad move, then you shouldn’t make a move. and you really should make a move just to make a move. and i feel that’s what Mo did all season long. even though the players in the minors weren’t good options, they were still better options that bringing in the worst of the MLB’s worst.

and as far as the Luddy Westbrook trade, i can’t say it enough just how much i hate it. Mo literally robbed Peter to pay Paul & in turn screwed everyone. Luddy was the Cards 3rd best offensive player on a team that desperately needs every ounce of offense it can get. while it’s true the Cards were desperate for a 4th starter, giving up Luddy was a price that was just too much to pay. yes Westbrook has done pretty well, just look at chitowns fanpost & it’ll prove what you’re eyes are telling you. but it’s now clear with TLR’s issues with Colby & Freeze losing a foot it was the worst possible thing Mo could have done besides shipping Albert to Japan for that 14yr old girl who can throw a knuckleball. Mo’s back up plan of Colby & Freeze picking up the slack for the absence of Luddy was just not smart. he should have known with this medical staff & this manger that something would go horribly wrong.

so for the in season moves i give him a big fat F. and if there was a worse grade i’d give that to him because there’s no logical reason for Mo do to anything he done. and overall i give him a D.

and that brings me to my final point. no offense to you & your opinion of MO, but i no longer view Mo as a smart or even good GM. i just don’t see it. nearly every move he’s made has been the wrong one, and it’s not just because of bad luck. no one forced him to overpay for Lego, Franky & Bubbles. there’s something else there. whether it’s the so called “black list” Walt got him on or the fact TLR has more power in the origination than he does, Mo’s not doing a very good job as the Cardinals GM. if he’s not smart enough to shoot down an old bitter Gm’s bullshit games then he’s not smart enough to run the Cards. if he doesn’t have the stones to tell TLR to know his role & STFU he’s not smart enough to run the Cards. if he’s nothing more than DeWitt & Co’s puppet, he sure fooled a lot of people & he’s really not the GM everyone says he is. because if he was the GM we all thought he was, he would keep crazy TLR under control. and that clearly hasn’t happened. so far, the moves made by Mo with either TLR’s & DeWitt & Co’s blessing or at their request has done nothing but ruin what should have been an awesome 2010.

when you have a core or Albert, Lego, Carp & Wagonmaker, anything less than a championship is a failure.

Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 9:36 PM EDT reply actions   3 recs

tl/dr

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 1, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 1, 2010 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

uh?

Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

according to urban dictionary

it means “too long, didn’t read”

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Sep 1, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

gotdamned i'm sorry everyone for trying to add to the conversation

from now on i’ll stick to jpg’s & gif’s

Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

mine was in jest

i did read it

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Sep 1, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was joking as well.....

FFS I responded 30 seconds after you posted it. I thought you, of the “I’m not reading all of that” would get a kick out of it.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

this was the funniest thing

i didnt know the tl/dr

even scrolling back up, the word count seemed to increase

by guillermozeliak on Sep 2, 2010 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

it's all good homies, i laughed, old GDM skin isn't that thin

sadly neither is his bacon belly

All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away

by gdm426 on Sep 2, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not reading all that

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

i love that this is still a thing, i really do

Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's not a thing

we’re really just not reading it. and as someone who sometimes makes entirely too long posts, i’m sorry

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 1, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

get a room!

Fire John Mozeliak up a nice steak, or stake ( haven't decided)

by mattyfrommo on Sep 1, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

with your sister?

Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made

by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will burn VEB to the ground

before I okay sending my sister into a room with gdm & trb

Fire John Mozeliak up a nice steak, or stake ( haven't decided)

by mattyfrommo on Sep 2, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

what could possibly go wrong with your sis, RB & I sitting in a room

with a good bottle of bourbon, a record player & a toaster?

All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away

by gdm426 on Sep 2, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

as Yadi2 said

theres no way I’m reading all of that

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Sep 1, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

windy but good

i did read it

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Sep 1, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy fuck

Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?

by jd is legend on Sep 1, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I read it.

I rec’d it, too. I don’t disagree 100% with what you said, but by god did you say it with meaning.

by spants on Sep 1, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

momma always said say what you mean & mean what you say

All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away

by gdm426 on Sep 2, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I read it all and I agree with most of it

I agree with his in season grade, and I agree that we overpaid for Holliday.

I disagree that Floppy was a bad signing. Even though he has massively underperformed his projections, he still has been worth more than his contract. Mo signed a player who could reasonably be expected to be a league average hitter and a competent fielder at 3 different positions for 2 million dollars. That’s a great move.

Accordingly, I also disagree with your grade of his offseason. While the Holliday was a bit of an overpay, IMO, the Lopez, Penny and Hill signings we’re all good to great and his decisions to put Freeze and Garcia on the opening day roster we’re excellent as well. I would give him a B minimum for his offseason.

Fire Tony La Russa

by vivaelpujols on Sep 1, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

i disagree about floppy, too, only because think about who would have been playing 3B

like Tom S. said above, either miles would have been there, or feliz much sooner. its not like not having floppy would have allowed us to get a quality 3B. we’re not paying him enough that his non-presence would have made a difference there. but i DID read it all!

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Sep 2, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

see that's part of the Cards problem, not having acceptable back ups

and why now it can be said the Floppy deal was bad. sure hindsight is 20/20, but when your only option is to replace a bad player with even worse players, you’re not doing a good job running a baseball organization. and again, i know Floppy has been overexposed & that’s a reason why his numbers aren’t living up to his projections. i also know he’s having knee problems. i’m not sitting here screaming at VEB “i told you so!!!” and i hope no one’s taking it like that. ya he’s a giant douche but when healthy & used correctly he’s a good player. i recognize that & was rooting him on just like everyone else earlier in the season. i certainly take no joy in the fact he’s not living up to the expectations.

it’s just so crazy how nearly every move Mo’s made this year has backfired. i never would have imagined this season turning out like it has.

All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away

by gdm426 on Sep 2, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

DFA TLR

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 2, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec'd!

All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away

by gdm426 on Sep 2, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

ex-pirates

 JohnMarecek How’d ya not want Nyjer Morgan on your club? Yells at fans, knocks over catchers for no reason, & tonight, charged mound, got clotheslined 28 minutes ago via TweetDeck

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 9:40 PM EDT reply actions  

did you see this shit?

BBTN was all over it and that douche did all kinds of crap – i am surprised the Marlins didn’t put him on the DL for the rest of the season the way they piled up on him
they talked about the bush league move against Bryan Anderson and the crap with the Nats the way he took out their catcher

here the video of Morgan charging the mound and Volstad beating his ass

..i miss ludriguez-wick..

by d-dee on Sep 1, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

taking a mental health break from BBTN

but in case I’m up for some late-night violence, will punch it up, thanks

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

i don't usually watch BBTN

i find the MLB video i linked up speaks for itself, don’t need FESPN to “analyze” it for me

..i miss ludriguez-wick..

by d-dee on Sep 1, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep..i only watch mlb...i only go to epsn/mlb for stats...better layout

as for mlb.com they have mlb tonight w/ reynolds …condensed games…recaps…must “C’s”…much better highlights

by guillermozeliak on Sep 2, 2010 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dude's got issues.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 1, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do not think

the cardinals will ever get that chance to retaliate against morgan. Who wants a guy like that on their team??

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Sep 1, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

what day was it that he took out anderson?

I missed it, anyone have a link?

I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill

by Evilfrog on Sep 1, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Saturday. He gave Anderson an elbow on the way to missing home.

Quoth Anderson-

“It’s going to take a little bit bigger of a guy than that to take me down… so I guess it wasn’t that big of a deal. I mean, it was, because it was a cheap shot, but not really, I guess.”

You're Walgreen's sunglasses, Aaron Miles, you son of a bitch.

by The Continental on Sep 1, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dayum

Volstead’s got Mr. Anderson’s back! Sanchez fucking annihilated him. What the hell is wrong with that dude? New least-favorite MLB player. What a chump.

Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?

by jd is legend on Sep 1, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also notice Adam Dunn on his back at one point, surrounded by Marlins

Did he start kicking? No. Because he’s a fucking grown-ass man.

Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?

by jd is legend on Sep 1, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure he said "I must break you"

Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?

by jd is legend on Sep 1, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

did his russian accent come out

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow!

gaby sanchez is a pimp!

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 2, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he and Carp would get along swell

Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?

by jd is legend on Sep 2, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is quite excellent

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on Sep 2, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

why thank you

apparently i got a thing about brawls.. who knew

..i miss ludriguez-wick..

by d-dee on Sep 2, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

watched the nats' feed

and even the nats’ announcers were all over morgan. said he was the instigator, he’s had a chip on his shoulder for a couple weeks and even mentioned the cheap shot on anderson

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 2, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

i never understood why the cheap shot on anderson

…there was no history b/w the Cardinals and obv anderson

only thing i can think of Nyjer was pissed at the pending suspension on the phils game the week earlier/press coverage on that

If anything Morgan would want to get back at Rigs possibly for: not backing up his own player on the phils incident, Rigs did back him up on the dirty play in game 1 but still gave negative comments, benching him w/o talking to Nyjer for game 2, and batting him 8th for game 3…Why is Bryan Anderson involved?

by guillermozeliak on Sep 2, 2010 4:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

morgan has some serious problems

can u imagine a team with Zambrano, Rocker, Phillips, Morgan, Bradley

by guillermozeliak on Sep 2, 2010 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh and managed by wally backman

and im now just seeing the viral video of him of his ejection….greatest video ever

“let’s go get a beer doc”…

by guillermozeliak on Sep 2, 2010 6:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

is it true MLB told him to go talk to a shrink & he said no?

All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away

by gdm426 on Sep 2, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

very nice, wanna help me with my picagism script?

All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away

by gdm426 on Sep 2, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

25 for 25, ad infinitum, ad nauseum

I have just one roster left to post and my 25 for 25 project will be over. Then I can start on the expanded version of my 1935-59 team.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Sep 1, 2010 9:48 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Now approaching 13 hours in the office

I don’t think I’ll quite top by 15 hour day yesterday . . .

Tomorrow, I’m aiming high and hoping to be done in 12 hours!

Silly humans, this world is for robots.

by azruavatar on Sep 1, 2010 9:52 PM EDT reply actions  

And by done I mean leave the office

Since I will never again be caught up at work.

Silly humans, this world is for robots.

by azruavatar on Sep 1, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

i hope you're paid hourly

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 1, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

Nyjer Morgan is trash.

Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte

by BVHeck on Sep 1, 2010 10:13 PM EDT reply actions  

lame speculation

substance abuse?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

"I'M ALL JACKED UP ON MOUNTAIN DEW!"

Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte

by BVHeck on Sep 1, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

i talked to him when he played on the pirates

he was very nice

up until a couple of weeks ago i was a big nyjer morgan fan, and was really excited when he went to the nats

having a rough year in the ywo basement

by YesWeOquendo on Sep 1, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

sudden behavior changes...

could be anything of course, but I am lamely speculating here.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Said the same thing here at home

Who really knows. I never noticed anything like this from him at all until lately. But then again, I guess I wasn’t paying much attention.

by Merry CRasmus on Sep 1, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

or it's really:

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 2, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

he was down 11, and that's not the issue at hand

Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte

by BVHeck on Sep 1, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will clarify:

Nyjer Morgan is trash because: Bryan Anderson, Brett Hayes, & taking exception to a message pitch. His pitchers would do the same thing to Gaby Snachez if he had railroaded and injured Ivan Rodriguez a week after going out of his way to run into another catcher in the league.

Oh, and for not even being able to land a punch. C’mon dude. You got up in a fit and ran all the way up there just to get your shit tossed.

Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte

by BVHeck on Sep 1, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

from what I gather because he stole 2nd and 3rd while down by 11 runs

also he railroaded the Marlins catcher in particularly moronic fashion given that if wanted to be safe he needed to slide.

How about the fan baiting? Morgans last week or so is definitely the douchiest display I can recall in a good while (in MLB-land).

by infallibleopiniongenerator on Sep 2, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

what's wrong with the former?

and i don’t understand the latter? basically the same thing he did to anderson?

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 2, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying something's wrong with it

but apparently it violates the old-timers baseball code and seemed to be enough in the announcers minds. It wasn’t the same thing he did to Anderson as he didn’t really go out of his way to do it just slammed into the catcher at the plate (but was stupid for doing so because sliding was his ticket to scoring.

by infallibleopiniongenerator on Sep 2, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Mo got a somewhat inflated grade, but then, too, he did not have much of a curriculum to work with.

I would have liked to have seen Matt Carp pushed up to AAA and Gotay DFAd. Maybe push up some of the more promising players at the lower levels up higher. No reason that I can see to carry the 30-year olds at Memphis . . .

An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.

HL Mencken

by akaitori on Sep 1, 2010 10:26 PM EDT reply actions  

whoever felt gotay was no go at 3rd in memphis

should have filled that spot with someone who could
this is like memphis x years ago with only has beens

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR

by sportsman on Sep 1, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

we joke about Cazana

but Luhnow thought he should get a shot

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Remember when Colorado traded Holliday

for Cargo and people didn’t know who CarGo was? And for clarity reasons I said he was basically Oakland’s Colby and some said that he wasn’t near the prospect Colby was?

Whoever you were, I hope you are right.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Sep 1, 2010 10:51 PM EDT reply actions  

and

this is good info too not just for CarGo, but also for explaining why it is easier to hit in Colorado

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Sep 1, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cargo's wOBA this year is .406

Rasmus’ wOBA this year is .359. So Cargo has been much better than Rasmus, but…. Cargo plays in an extreme hitters park whereas Rasmus plays in a pitchers park. Also Cargo’s BABIP is .035 points higher than Rasmus, so he’s likely gotten luckier as well.

Statcorner’s wOBAr, which adjusts for ballpark and regresses BABIP to a players past and current batted ball profile, has Cargo at .388 and Rasmus and .354, which is a smaller gap (and Rasmus, interestingly, get’s hurt on the BABIP adjustment more than Cargo).

The difference between a .388 and .354 wOBA over 150 games is about 17 runs. Rasmus probably gains half of that back on defense though, and he’s also a year younger. So Cargo has been better than Rasmus so far, but it’s a little too early to tell who will be the better player.

Fire Tony La Russa

by vivaelpujols on Sep 1, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

(and Rasmus, interestingly, get’s hurt on the BABIP adjustment more than Cargo).

cargo has a career .345 BABIP, colby .302. so, colby is getting regressed to a lower mean. wOBAr also doesn’t account for the fact that gonzalez’ 5.5% BB-rate v. 23.7% K-rate don’t match up very well with his batted ball profile. maybe he’s some kind of weird exception, but i’m calling luck to the tune of .040-.050 points.

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 2, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

one more thing

thank goodness tomorrow is an off day.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Sep 1, 2010 11:23 PM EDT reply actions  

no, that's bad

that’s an off-day wherein VEB will be filled with screeds and amusing gifs

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 1, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am the king of VEB off days

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Sep 2, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously, why is Tyler Greene in Memphis? Are we trying not to peak too soon?

by jackclark on Sep 1, 2010 11:26 PM EDT reply actions  

can't disguise the head

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 2, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

nothing good can come of this...

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 2, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

a little early. sorry.

identity crisis season.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 2, 2010 12:12 AM EDT reply actions  

nice

i like this piggycat better than the eelcat

..i miss ludriguez-wick..

by d-dee on Sep 2, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

me too

but i’m not sure piggycat does; it looks kinda pissed

eel cat is so chill

by YesWeOquendo on Sep 2, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

you mean cheel

..i miss ludriguez-wick..

by d-dee on Sep 2, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

it thinks it's the rally pig

but it’s actually the kitten of despair.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Sep 2, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

cute

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 2, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'm not endearing myself

to the nats’ fan (yes, singular) on fish stripes tonight. it’s just too easy, though

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Sep 2, 2010 1:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Shut up Cardinals fan.....

lol

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Sep 2, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

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