Time to Face Facts - Pujols will not re-sign with the Cards
by Plowboy on Aug 31, 2010 1:50 PM EDT
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I spent the weekend watching the Sox series with the Yankees (After Pittsburg, driving splinters under my fingernails seemed preferable to watching Birds on the Bat lose yet another series to yet another cellar-dweller).
Lumberjack after Lumberjack strode to the plate in a Yankee uniform. The Yankees are 31 games over 500 in a division that has another team 31 games over 500 and another team 27 games over 500. It is unreal how good the AL East is.
Strange things happen in baseball (see 2006), but there is no reasonable move or combination of moves that the Cardinals could make in the offseason that would make them competitive in a 7 game series against these guys. And that's starting with the best hitter in baseball three of its best starting pitchers. (With whom we can't even manage to make it pennant race in the weakest division in baseball while playing 3 of its worst teams).
I don't think its about the money for Albert, but why on earth would he choose to come back to the Cardinals and hope for another flukey World Series championship when he could go to the Yankees and know that every year for the rest of his career he will enter Spring Training with the odds on favorite to win a World Championship that year? Hell, I wouldn't.
We aren't competitive against the Reds now and they are going to be a lot better next year than they are this year. And even better the year after that.
I am very grateful for what Albert has given us over the past 10 years, there will never be another like him. As much as I hate the Yankees, Albert deserves to be part of a dynasty that wins championships every year and I don't begrudge him going to New York to do that.
So here's the question. Should the Cardinals hang on to him so that we fans can enjoy one more season cheering for the greatest (my preference) or should they shop him around over the winter in hopes of landing a boatload of prospects that could turn us into the next Tampa Bay? Discuss.
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Could not disagree more.
“I don’t think its about the money for Albert, but why on earth would he choose to come back to the Cardinals and hope for another flukey World Series championship when he could go to the Yankees and know that every year for the rest of his career he will enter Spring Training with the odds on favorite to win a World Championship that year?”
Because he would have to DH, and Pujols doesn’t want to DH, since they have Teixeira. Plus, that team is going to SUCK in about 3 years or even sooner when those big contracts get really old.
“We aren’t competitive against the Reds now and they are going to be a lot better next year than they are this year. And even better the year after that.”
Do you see Scott Rolen playing this well in the future? Hell, will he even be able to PLAY this much in the future? Will Votto be able to replicate his Pujols-like season"? Will they even have an ace next season? Who the hell knows? But you can’t honestly say they will be a lot better, when there’s a very real chance they they will be mediocre next year.
And to answer your question? Neither. Pujols has invested a lot into this city, and has been here for quite a while. If the Cardinals at least offer 25 million a year, there’s no reason why he can’t at least be enticed by that.
And honestly, only watching when the team is winning and not in a slump? Look up what a bandwagon fan is….
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Fair Enough
You make some good points, but I think there are answers:
1) Pujols is gold-glove defender. I doubt that they would DH him and play Teixeira instead.
2) The thing about the Yankees is that they have enough money to just go sign more free agents as their existing stock of lumberjacks ages. In some ways, what happens to their current players is irrelevant. They will always just go sign more.
3) I don’t see any sign that Votto is a fluke. He’s young and he’s very good. He will only get better. You make a good point about Rolen though, he’s very fragile and aging rapidly. On the other hand, the Reds have a ton of young pitching talent and they are only going to get better.
4) I think Pujols likes St. Louis and he could easily come back here to retire with friends, etc., maybe even to wrap up his career. He has maybe 5 peak years left (I hope I’m wrong, but the odds are otherwise). If he wants to win championships, he has to move now.
5) The $25 million is the crux of the problem. He’s easily worth that and will have no problem getting that on the free agent market. The problem is that if we pay him that, it is very hard to see how we assemble the other pieces needed to win championships. Albert knows that as well as anybody.
6) I mentioned the Yankees, but this is not just a Yankees problem. Boston or even (Lord please, no!) the Mets can more credibly promise to make the budget available to assemble a champion than the Cards.
The Reds indeed do have a lot of young pitching talent
in much the same way the Cubs of 2003-04 did. We’ve already seen the Reds put Mike Leake on the DL with a “tired shoulder.” Homer Bailey spent time on the DL already. And I doubt if Dusty Baker learned his lessons from his time with the Giants and Cubs.
When you have the luxury of plenty, you tend to take it for granted. I don’t think the Reds will do as well next year with their pitching. We’ll see about Aroldis Chapman.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Aug 31, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
you could check the game logs at baseball reference
you would see that Mike Leake has not thrown more than 108 pitches in a start this year. Volquez was not abused in 2008. Homer Bailey was used a bit heavily but it is hard to say he was abused last year. The Reds have taken care of Cueto.
Of course any pitcher is just one pitch away from surgery. But it is tiring to read that Dusty Baker ruins pitchers.
Joey Votto is my MVP.
I would like to take care of Cueto
With a baseball bat to his head. His spike kicking was one of the most cowardly acts I have ever witnessed in my life.
"The Helping Phriendly Book it seems contained the ancient secrets of eternal joy and neverending splendor. The trick was to surrender to the flow." Phish - The Lizards
Teixeira ...
… is also a Gold Glove defender. In fact, he has three Gold Gloves—two more than Albert has.
by Steve in Alabama on Aug 31, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
do you realize that the people that hand out the gold gloves aren't all that enlightened on how to evaluate defense?
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You misunderstand my point
The contention was made that because Pujols is a Gold Glove defender, the Yankees would DH Teixeira instead of Pujols. I pointed out that Teixeira is also a Gold Glove defender. That undermines the supposition that the Yankees would move Teixeira to DH because of Pujols’ glove. Per fangraphs, Teixeira is having a bad year defensively (UZR of -6.0; Pujols is at 1.8), but he’s been good in the past and has a good defensive reputation. If the Yankees kept Derek Jeter at shortstop when they acquired Alex Rodriguez, do you think that they would move Teixeira off first base if they acquired Pujols?
What Gold Gloves mean and whether the people who hand out Gold Gloves know what they’re doing are separate issues.
by Steve in Alabama on Aug 31, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Pujols is the best defensive first baseman in the game, hands down
at least, in my opinion. defense is very hard to evaluate.
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, another Alabamian!
When the Yankees acquired A-Rod, Jeter was the captain of the team and had been their shortstop for like ten years. He was anchored in the position. I don’t think the analogy holds.
That said, I’d be surprised if the Yankees go after Albert.
Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?
by jd is legend on Sep 1, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
the point still remains
that if you’re going to argue that the Yankees would put Pujols at first base because he’s a gold glove first baseman, it doesn’t make sense since they’ve already got a 3 time gold glove firstbaseman already playing there.
But this is a dumb arguement anyway.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Alright
1. Perception beats reality every time. Teixeira has been a GG defender in the past, and also has tenure with the actual team. He would get first crack at the job. Having GG’s is not a great defensive indicator, but 75% of NYers don’t know that.
2. There comes a point where even the Yankees can’t afford to give out huge contracts. If they resign Jeter for 3 years or so, they still have A-Rod in his late 30’s, Teixeira getting up there, Rivera becoming a fossil, Sabathia getting into his 30’s, as well as Burnett, Pettitte, etc. They are getting old, and not only that, but getting paid more than players 10 years younger and as good, and it will kill the Yankees in the future.
3. I’m not saying Votto is a fluke at all, I just don’t think he is at the Pujols level year in and year out, but yes, he will be a good player for a long time. But Chapman is nowhere near ready to pitch as a starter in the near future, Leake will be fine, but can you really expect Wood to meet expectations? Volquez may or may not be permanently damaged by that surgery (And probably the lack of steroids….). Will he be the same potential star he was before?
4. If Pujols wanted championships, he would rather go to the Yankees and DH when he is wrapping up his HoF career, not the other way around like you have it. The man(g) already has a championship, so he isn’t that desperate for one.
5. If Pujols weren’t here, would the Cardinals fill the stadium? I think that the FO has to look at that aspect as well. I personally have quite a bit of faith in Luhnow to supply players who may not be stars, but are every day regulars.
6. Boston very well could try for Pujols, as well as NY (Although they might like Ike Davis there for the long term), and I expect Boston to at least make a run for him (As well as Boston media hounding him), but if Albert is the low-key guy I think he is, then I don’t think he really wants to go to NY or Boston. I could be wrong, but that’s why we argue isn’t it? :)
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I worry about the Angels
They have money, they’ve been willing to spend it, and Kendry Morales is a good player but not exactly an Albert Pujols (even assuming that he comes back 100% from the broken leg).
by Steve in Alabama on Aug 31, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, Morales is cost controlled for the moment.
Pujols, while he is a great player, would not be worth to invest in if they already have a good inhouse option. The value isn’t there for them.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
The Red Sox already have a good in-house option too.
But, as you say, they’ll probably try for Pujols anyway. The Angels are way down this year, are not likely to bounce back in a big way next year, lack a superstar, play in a huge media market with a big Latin population, and have a well-heeled owner who has exhibited more concern about winning and stirring up fan excitement than about cost control.
by Steve in Alabama on Sep 1, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
This couldn't be further from the truth actually
Strange things happen in baseball (see 2006), but there is no reasonable move or combination of moves that the Cardinals could make in the offseason that would make them competitive in a 7 game series against these guys.
With Carp, WW, and Garcia each going twice in a 7 game series, I’d give us a 45% chance of winning it actually. They would counter with Sabathia, Burnett, and Hughes. I like our staff better. They have the better offensive team, but they are also a bit dependent on the long ball, as their high OBP guys from year’s past, like Jeter, have struggled this season.
The playoffs is a crapshoot that generally favors the team with better starting pitching, which is why a Philly team with one good starter entering the World Series last year made the Yanks sweat for their title. Hell, we beat a Tigers team in 2006 that swept the vaunted Bombers right out of the ALCS.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Pitching AND Hitting win championships (before the Series most people said that the Tigers had much better pitching than we did).
We do have a good top 3, but you know that the Yankees will go out and sign another starter. Sabathia will be back and he’s at least as good as WW, Pettite is one the downside of his career, but when he’s healthy is arguably as good as Carp when Carp is healthy. Ivan Nova has not put together the body of work that Jaime has, but what he has done this season is light’s out. I wouldn’t assume that we will have a huge advantage on starting pitching.
They plainly have a huge advantage with hitters: Posada is a much a much better hitter than Yadi, we have the advantage at 1B, but Teixeira is no slouch, at 2B and SS, they are much, much better than we are, at 3B they are much than we are. We have a clear advantage in LF, but CF and RF are a push at best. At DH they have Berkman and we have . . .Aaron Miles?
Now then. Baseball is a crazy game and people get hurt or have slumps or have career years and a 13th round draft pick turns out to be the best hitter to play the game. Is there a guarantee that we will not win a championship in the next 5 years or that the Yankees will win one? Absolutely not. But Albert wants to play in the Series and the Yankees are much more likely to be there multiple times over the next 5 years than we are. It sucks. But it’s true.
Outside of Pujols, the Tigers had an advantage in nearly every facet of the 2006 World Series......yet they lost in 6 games.
Outside of George Brett, the Cardinals had an advantage at almost every other position in the ’87 World Series…….yet we lost in 7 games. The Yankees had HUGE offensive advantages against the Marlins in 2003, yet Josh Beckett and Brad Penny outpitched their Yankee counterparts and the Marlins scored just enough runs to win 4 games.
This is not the NBA. The most talented team does not win 7 game series 90% of the time. I would guess the Yankees would be no more than a 3-2 favorite to beat any team with a record over .500 in a playoff series, if the Vegas oddsmakers were doing the bookmaking. Why? Because they know that a 7 game series is a total crapshoot. The key is to get to the playoffs and be healthy when you get there. The rest is nearly a toss up.
As far as playing in the World Series multiple times, I disagree with that as well. The Yankees are a pitching injury away (Sabathia) from being a very average team, because great pitching beats great hitting most of the time, and they play in the toughest division in baseball, with two teams loaded with young, cheap talent like the Rays and Blue Jays. Hell, the Rays have more talent than they can use: Jeremy Hellickson just threw 3 quality starts in his first three starts in the big leagues and was the first pitcher since the advent of the QS statistic to do so…….so they sent him back to A ball to learn how to pitch in relief because they have so many good starters they don’t need him in the rotation right now. Good grief!
It’s kinda like the LeBron James question: Do you want to go to the NYY and win a couple World Series on someone else’s team (Jeter)? Or would you rather stay where you are and take a shot at winning a couple more on YOUR team while trying to beat those guys? I guess I would do the latter, because I like a challenge, and I think that Albert does too.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Sep 2, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, typo
I pasted in the wrong place. The ’85 Cardinals had huge advantages in the rotation, defense, and speed on the Royals, yet lost the series. The ’87 Cardinals won TEN MORE GAMES than the Twins, yet lost the World Series because Frank Viola threw 2 gems and John Tudor got bombed in 2 of his three starts.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't think you know what a "fact" is
Regardless, if Pujols wants to win a championship going to the Yankees would not be a good move for him, for the reasons you state. Their division is so strong that they are just less likely to make the playoffs than the Cardinals.
Fire Tony La Russa
AL East
You make a good point. But notwithstanding that, the Yankees have won the AL Pennant in 7 of the last 15 years. There are no sure things, but if your goal is to play in the Series, the unfortunate fact is that the Yankees are head and shoulders above every one else.
right, so just given the Yankees' spending might,
there will be years when they could probably have a good chance winning the WS with me on the roster. So what the fuck is the accomplishment for Albert to do it?
Interesting Argument
Somehow though, I don’t think that Mo is going to sit down with Albert and tell him, “Albert there are 3 reasons to stay in St. Louis: 1) We will pay you very well; 2) All of your friends and family live here; and 3) It will be much, much more difficult to win here than in New York.”
Pujols is not ARoid....
…and my intuitive hooves tell me would like to remain a Cardinal and finish his career here. Cowever, if he feels that the FO is not about winning, he would certainly threaten to walk away. I think moore than any udder reason we’ll see a very different team next season for the sole purpose of keeping The Mang happy, which means utilizing moore young players and chopping off the dead wood.
bearing that in mind, we need to get some saves udder Motte’s belt, or find a closer, ‘cause after the rotation and settling down 3rd base that is our biggest issue IMO. Boog and Skip are ok, provided they hit; Greene can back them up, as well as Freese, but he needs to come back healthy. Keeping Westie solidifies 4 of the 5 man rotation nicely. Shelby is in the pipeline. Udder useful guys (Delasco, Lil’ Carp, etc) are in the pipeline. But Franklin still worries me as a closer, and we haven’t done enough to groom Motte to be the next guy, nor do I think KMac can do the job. And u can’t expect cowplete games in the play-offs from your starters – most of the reason IMO that the hated Yankees were as dominant as they were came down to 1 reason: Mariano Rivera. We can’t get him, but we need to get someone closer to him if we want to not only cowpete but win.
Not many options to choose from, but I wonder: what would it take to get Papelbon from the Sawks?
I Hate Jason Marquis!!!
:=8O
Time to face facts,
you are a downer.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
That is a fact.
But any Cards fan who isn’t depressed as hell right now isn’t paying attention.
who are you?
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
There are some reasons to think that Pujols will leave...
But none of them are covered in this post. I see little that is compelling here, or as the dude would say, “Oh yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”
by YepYouGuessedIt...CardinalRed on Aug 31, 2010 5:41 PM EDT reply actions
best quote ever
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
that's just, like, your opinion, man
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Smokey, this is bowling, not 'nam. There are rules.
That’s my favorite
Do you remember that spelling bee you won in the first grade? Rock? "R-O-K"?
by jd is legend on Sep 1, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I said mark it zero!
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
calmer than you are
"on gameday it says duke loves to face the four seamer and hates to face the four seamer" -VolsnCards5
"perhaps it's a computer joke about the duality of man." -tom s.
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Sep 2, 2010 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
lot of strands in the ol' duder's head
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 2, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's to hoping they just resign him this offseason.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Hope they trade him so we can have a full team of good hitters opposed to two great hitters
… and then 6 guys who wouldn’t win a home run derby vs. my mom
by Mulliganstew on Sep 14, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I probably should have said 3 great hitters
Sorry Baby Daddy Rasmus.
by Mulliganstew on Sep 14, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
there are no facts in this article
how can I face them?
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2010 6:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
haha im sorry its laughable you think the yankees will pay 25+ million just cause they can
they won’t… no way…. and honestly i don’t really see anybody ponying up that cash for pujols either… don’t give me the crap argument “he’s the best player in baseball, who wouldn’t want hm either”
only real threats off the top of my head are Braves (with no future at 1B), Rockies (ditto), White Sox (again no future), Boston (i think they’ll get Adrian though somehow or Fielder) …. im sure some of them even have good prospects at 1B, i just don’t know them
moderate threats are nationals, orioles (both willing, doubt Pujols goes to losing teams for money though), rangers (chris davis might change their minds), Toronto (not exactly the team to spend though), SF (too good a mix of 1B/3B though for me)
then you have no threat at all because they suck – Houston, Cubs (see also: deadweight although not at 1B), Indians, Mariners (they also have Smoak), Pittsburgh, KC, Dbacks
then teams with payroll concerns – Brewers (see also: suck), San Diego (if not, Gonzalez will get re-signed), Tampa Bay, Oakland (see also: suck), Florida
then teams with young studs/deadweights/long-term – Yankees (not a chance like i said), Minnesota (Morneau – also payroll), Detroit (Cabrera), Angels (Kendry), Phillies (hahahaha), Cincy (Votto), Dodgers (Loney)… i think i covered all 30
orioles, nationals can be applied to suck as well (as in why would pujols go to a sub-.500 club), Braves didn’t get Texeira who was cheaper so change of strategy all of a sudden?, SF has the money, just i think Ishikawa + Sandoval probably needing to change to 1B will get them to say no as well
who's to say the Cards won't pay him $27 or $28 mil a year
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
that seems ideal for #5
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
This
is the contract that I see as the most reasonable in my head. My grit tells me it’ll be a tad lower than that annually, but either way I could dig it. You don’t let the mang just walk.
check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos
O's might be a fit
the last huge contract was to Albert Belle so maybe Angelos uses an alphabetic sorting order for performance analysis instead of those weird things like wOBA. Another thing, the O’s last surge in attendance was for a Hall of Fame player in the last years of his career. The O’s probably would think this is a good marketing move.
The O’s have the money too. Angelos even wins if Albert would sign with the Nationals because he owns 90% of the Nationals television rights.
On the downside, Number 5 was retired by the O’s for Brooks and I don’t think even Angelos would unretire it.
They had that huge Tejada deal, though that's off the books too
but yeah, they certainly have money to throw around.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
hmm
1. please put a subject line when posting pictures.
2. didn’t you post a fanpost about how you wanted pedro feliz to suck? I feel that that’s more troll-esque than debating about re-signing Pujols…
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
by hr on Sep 1, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
subject line
Was a mistake, slipped my mind and I can’t seem to edit it
As for Feliz, that was mostly a rant post which I deleted once I calmed down. (my feelings are still the same)
As for the post’s creator, I hope I don’t need to bring up that the Yankees have another 1B signed for 6 more years, and I don’t see either of them willing to accept a DH role.
Anyway Mauer resigned with the Twins (even though I think it was too much), I still think Albert be back in St. Louis.
by Notorious PSC on Sep 1, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
So
Anyway Mauer resigned with the Twins (even though I think it was too much), I still think Albert be back in St. Louis.
What does one have to do with the other? I’m lost on this one.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Albert/Joe
I think given that he’s the face of the franchise, ownership will do whatever they can to keep him, like with Mauer. He also isn’t represented by Scott Boras, which gives me hope. But then again, hope IS the worst of all evils
by Notorious PSC on Sep 1, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok i got ya.
I would point out though that the twins didn’t have any Holliday like contracts though when they resigned Mauer . Thus giving them a little more financial flexibility.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
One major reason Cards games sellout all the time is because of Albert Pujols
Everyone in StL wants to see the best player in the league play for their town. If Pujols goes, even though it may be more economical in the short term, there won’t be as many fans coming to Busch every day and eventually, Busch Stadium will end up like PNC Park. The loyalty of our fanbase took a hit when Rolen, Edmonds, and now Ludwick left. Without Pujols, though, you can say goodbye to all those more or less fairweather fans who come out to see the stars play.
/IMO
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
but that was before the fans even knew that the cards had the best player in the game
if he leaves now, the fans will feel the loss
OT: I just read that Suppan is starting today. We’re doomed.
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
by hr on Sep 1, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe you don't give STL fans enough credit
As long as we don’t absolutely suck, the fans will come out at a good clip.
I don’t remember attendance falling when the Ozzie/Coleman/McGee’s left. I don’t remember it falling when Big Mac left.
Even if Albert left, we’d still have Holliday, Carp, and Waino, and we’d probably go sign another fairly big name, OR have some good young players to follow if Albert were traded.
Nobody wants to see Albert go, but at the same time, we can’t pay him $35M per season. If he’ll take less, great. If not, he’ll probably have to go elsewhere. My biggest problem would be letting him leave without getting anything back. THAT would suck. And I think that is why this offseason is so important.
Okay, I was probably exaggerating a little
But I bet every single kid living in St. Louis has a Pujols jersey. Every one. I’ll also bet that these kids will be really sad to see him go (if he does). He’s started out in the Cardinals organization, and he’s been here for such a long time. However, I agree that we still have Holliday, Carpenter, Wainwright, Rasmus, Jay, Brendan Ryan, Molina, and even Jaime Garcia, who have a bit of sentimental value to fans like Pujols. And I understand that in general, Cards fans are pretty classy and the fanbase won’t act like Cleveland’s when LeBron left.
Pujols leaving probably won’t have a huge, drastic impact, but I really wish he could stay.
I'm not trolling, just being sarcastic.
by hr on Sep 1, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
You were exaggerating,
and you’re still exaggerating. Every kid doesn’t have a Pujols jersey, and he’s not every person’s favorite player. He’s great at baseball, but otherwise unless he’s talking about hitting he’s a relatively boring guy. Other players have great personalities and are also good on the field and fans love players for all kinds of reasons. Attendance is based primarily on two things in every situation league-wide: Market factors and winning percentage. Market factors are the size of the population and the price of the tickets. Winning percentage is self explanatory.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
Ticket Sales
In general, it seems that the Cardinals will draw better than their winning percentage alone would indicate. The question though is will our winning percentage be higher if we spend 25m+ on Pujols or 25m+ on upgrading our other positions + we get a boatload of cost controlled prospects in return for trading him. I love Albert, but if he won’t re-sign it would be stupid not to trade him and realize that value.
35M a year?
I haven’t even heard commenters suggest that. I would guess that Albert would ask for 25/yr, 30 tops.
by Notorious PSC on Sep 1, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
For once, I agree with everything you've said.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
by hazel on Sep 1, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It did drop
Dramatically in the mid 90’s, but I’m sure most of that was strike related. There is a strong correlation with the Cardinals attendance and winning just as there is anywhere. I agree that attendance could stay strong if they find good uses for the money saved.
by Merry CRasmus on Sep 1, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, when Mark McGwire was hitting homeruns
and there was a transition without a gap.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I think the Cardinals current run of great attendance is due to a few things
1. They have fielded a highly successful team over the last decade or so. People like success.
2. There is a belief that the team is committed to winning.
Albert has been a big part of 1 and 2. I think the team can survive without Albert, but people are going to want a competitive team that seems committed to winning. And I think they Cardinals may soon have trouble getting 1 and 2 to continue.
I could see a situation where a losing team hurts attendance, causing Dewitt to cut payroll, causing worse attendance, and more payroll cutting.
and
they sell schlafly at the stadium…and its cheaper than the other swill they have
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
If Pujols leaves
we’ll at least replace him with something like Adrian Gonzalez, and we should still have a winning team.
I’m yet to be convinced his presence means a huge amount in terms of asses-in-seats.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Sep 6, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought Kruk had a good idea
sign Albert to a “lifetime” contract, at 5 mil a year. (like, maybe to age 60)
Yes, he would be severely under-paid for the next six or seven years (assuming playing health), but then he would start to be OVER-paid for the next 23 years or so.
I’m totally unsure how Pujols’ mind (ego) works, but long term security trumps outrageous short-term bucks, in MY view at least.
Moreover, Albert is, more than most players I think, just one knee buckle or ankle crack away from never PLAYING again period. We have indeed been blessed, so far. He is an oak, not a willow. When oak trees fall, they really fall; willows survive all sorts of storms.
Eye Strain
Thought I’d be slick and look this up. Unfortunately the resulting 15 minutes of reading gave me a profound headache and failed to turn up an answer. If someone smarter / more dedicated than I wants to take a look: MLB-CBA.
I did find the section on salary reduction that stipulates that a club cannot tender, sign, or renew a player “under reserve of the club” to a salary that would represent more than a 20% reduction of his previous years salary. I’m guessing Pujols could not be given an extension at less than 12m, but could sign to whatever amount if allowed to become a free agent first. Anyway – headache.
-- Aidan Sonoda
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart - 4/9/09
In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/boston-red-sox.html
Wakefield: additional 1-year, $4M club option is added each time club exercised 1 option, continuing until the club declines an option
It's not prohibited
It would just be mortally stupid of our front office to do so, because he would be taking up a 40 man roster spot until he was 60 years old and he’d be on the books for that money the entire time. $5M buys a pretty good player on the open market right now.
Now, you could sign him to a $350M contract and then defer $100M of it to $5M payments (plus interest) starting the year after he retires for the next 20 years. He’d still be on the payroll, but he wouldn’t be on the roster, and that’s an important distinction.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
as a PT
I have to disagree with your last paragraph…career ending injuries are extremely rare for position players
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
cmon now
what does that have to do with it. he just didn’t put many facts in here.
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
cards’ll get the wildcard yet. but they still don’t have a “shut down” closer.
no stud closer= no where in the playoffs
when does RB Fallstrom get inducted to the hall of fame?
sauce
"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn't true either
See: 2006 Cardinals, 1997 Marlins, 2003 Marlins, 2001 D-Backs, Any Braves team in the 90’s, etc.
For reference on this topic, read this.
For reference, Dennis Eckersley won ONE World Series in his career. Bruce Sutter, same thing.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i was here
and i was disappointed
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
by gdm426 on Sep 1, 2010 7:08 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
twss
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Sep 1, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
All I can say is wow. Glad I've avoided VEB for a few days. Geez.
....my quick smells like french toast...
Twitter: @mstreeter06
I like to think that Pujols isn't Lebron James.
That’s all. He seems to understand the value of being a franchise player. At least I hope so. And, if he does, THAT is why he’d stay with the Cardinals over playing for any of those big-pocketed AL East teams. He can still win here. Especially if we get a manager that doesn’t insist on playing Aaron Miles every other day.
On with the (good) youth movement!
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