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The Bell Tolls for thee -- 2010 St. Louis Cardinals

First, a disclaimer: I haven’t done a Fanpost before so I hope this is up to the level of discourse to be expected. If not, my apologies.

The current Baseball Prospectus playoff odds puts the chances at 40% for our favorite nine.  While I am not totally writing off the chance for the Cardinals to advance to the post season and they certainly would be a dangerous foe as 2006 proved, I certainly would not bet on it. This team, while boasting superstar talents having superstar-caliber years, has been torpedoed by having sub par production from most of the infield positions and a black hole of suck at the back end of the starting rotation beginning when Brad Penny fell to injury early in the year. The result of all this has been maddening, frustrating and inconsistent baseball club that I can barely tolerate watching even after plunking down my subscription fee for mlb.tv this year.

With that set up out of the way, here is what I am hoping to see in the final month of the season and the off season that I hope will lead to a brighter 2011 in no particular order:

1) Banish Kyle Lohse to bullpen immediately -- Undoubtedly he is still in some ways recovering from his surgery but as of now he offers nothing except a near-guaranteed loss every time he pitches. He can’t get batters out, he can’t go deep into games to save the bullpen, and makes $10 million a year through 2012. Minimize the damage by limiting him to mop up duty only. If Jeff Suppan is capable out at least keeping the team in games for 5 to 6 innings, he represents a better alternative than does Kyle. The other thing the front office needs to do regarding Kyle's 2011 role is to not pencil him in the rotation.  He's not going anywhere and he's not going to help the club in the rotation. The bullpen is his future unless they can come to terms with a buy out (unlikely).

2) DFA Mike McDougal -- He is now sporting an ERA over  8. He has been released by several clubs including the one that served a beat down to him yesterday.  There are much better bullpen options for the club in future. Why he is seeing time over better pitchers like Salas is infuriating. 

3) Let the kids play -- Memphis is fighting to repeat their PCL championship run of a year ago so while I would like to see Daniel Descalso, Tyler Greene, and Eduardo Sanchez get promoted immediately, I realize that this won’t happen for a few weeks.  Still after witnessing Skip Schumaker’s disappointing year, I think it is important for the club to see what Descalso can do.  While Descalso’s major league equivalency (MLE) is nothing to get excited about (.250/.301/.361) right now, it still would be worth seeing what he can do against major league pitching and his defense should  be an improvement over Skip’s.

4) For once and for all, see if  P. J. Walters has a future as a major league pitcher -- this is somewhat related to #3 . P.J. has racked up very good numbers in AAA but been hit hard in his time with the big club. If the club is out the running for the final few weeks, giving a few starts to P.J. can benefit the club more than throwing out the Suppans or Lohses of the world.  At best, he could fill the number five role. At worst, the team finds out it is time to part with P. J. and pursue another starting pitcher for 2011.

5) Start grooming Ryan Franklin’s replacement in the closer role. Tony LaRussa would probably never go for this, but giving Jason Motte (when he returns from the DL) and Francisco Salas the bulk of the majority of closing opportunities needs to happen. Ryan Franklin is returning to pitching like the Ryan Franklin most of expected us expected to see when he was placed in the closer’s role.  Unfortunately, without this happening, I foresee in 2011 another Jason Isringhausen-type situation where TLR is stubbornly trotting out a closer who clearly doesn’t have it anymore to the detriment of the ballclub.  

6) Send Matt Carpenter and Zach Cox to the Arizona Fall League at third base and second base respectively. Matt Carpenter is having an outstanding year in Springfield. With David Freese having a uncertain future after reconstructive surgery on his ankle after battling injuries the past two years, the organization would well served in finding out if Matt Carpenter could be a capable replacement. Cox was just signed and is getting his feet wet  by hitting in the GCL. If  he can play a passable, Dan Uggla-type of defense at second while bringing the bat that made him the most dominant hitter in the SEC this past year then the Cardinals could have something special. I don’t see him as a candidate to help the team next year at all, but a good showing in the AFL will speed up his timetable.

7) Sign Albert Pujols to a long-term extension -- enough said. Well, let me add just a little more. If possible, because the dollars per year will be so large, see if he is agreeable to a five year deal with additional option years that vest based on meeting performance numbers.  This is certainly the most important contract in the next decade of the organization and so it must be done carefully.  Not having the contract matter resolved before the start of the season will lead to questions hovering over the team the entire year which I think will be a negative for the club. Before doing this, Mr DeWitt needs to..

8) Have a frank sit down discussion with John Mozeliak about he performance as the team’s GM and how he gives out long-term deals.  Quite frankly, I give Mo, at best, a grade of  C-. Giving a four-year deal to Kyle Lohse for $10 million per year AND a no-trade clause to a number five starting pitcher was just idiocy and unfortunately it is playing out even worse than most of us expected.  A team like the Cardinals cannot afford to give out these contracts and expect to contend for championships. The team also does not have the budget to eat contracts like this.  Maybe Mo should have the keys taken away from him when meets with Scott Boras because he ends up getting the short end of the deal by far.  Matt Holliday has played well to this point this year but there are six LONG years to go on his contract. If he is playing as well in years five through seven of this contract I will be amazed. Additionally, giving extensions to players when it wasn’t required (see Franklin, Ryan or Schumaker, Skip) is exactly what his predecessor did after the 2006 season with Mark Mulder and Jim Edmonds to disastrous results. These should be recent reminders of mistakes not to make and Mo has not learned from them.  

These are my thoughts, what are yours?

Comment 39 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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I don't get the whole let Suppan pitch thing

did he really do that well for us? I seem to remember him sucking

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 29, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

other points

2. yes
3. yes
4. PJ Walters… I really don’t think he’s going to play much in the majors. maybe I’m wrong, but hey
5. Salas and Motte at the back end of the ‘pen… I like that idea!
6. not sure
7. yes
8. don’t bring back Larussa for ’11

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 29, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

good post though

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 29, 2010 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Also, fire Tony La Russa

(after we resign Pujols, he seems to like the motherfucker for some reason).

Fire Tony La Russa

by vivaelpujols on Aug 29, 2010 9:46 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

do we resign Tony

then resign Pujols, then fire Tony? I somehow doubt we’ll sign Pujols before Tony’s contract expires in November and there is no way Tony gets fired before November no matter how often he plays Miles.

by ubeddie on Aug 31, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd

I’m glad to hear somebody else say this…..and there’s no need to apologize.
With all the talent the Cardinals have they sure have been

maddening, frustrating and inconsistent….
Even if they make the playoffs it won’t erase the season they’ve had and it will have been an ugly achievement. They’ve been disappointing and hard to watch to say the least.
Albert is always great to watch and I guess Holliday has done his share after a slow start.
Wainwright is something to brag about, Carpenter has been solid and Garcia & Mott finish off the pleasantries. After that it’s all patchwork.
I think your hope #s 7 & 8 are right on the mark but they should include cutting ties with LaRussa. I don’t care if they do it gracefully by having him retire or resign but I see him as being a much of the problem as anybody….just keep Duncan, if he’ll stay without his buddy.

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on Aug 30, 2010 1:44 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Good post

I don’t have the guts (yet) to do post anything, so I would never criticize someone for trying.

With that said, Suppan would give us a great chance….. For a better draft position. You nailed it with the “give the kids a chance” thing. Get the expanded roster going with talent and see what they can do. Send MacDougal packing, give Feliz a nice participation trophy and move on with the future – not a hobbled together roster that surely wouldn’t get us out of the wild card round even if we DID get to the playoffs, which is looking like a crap chance right now. Split a series with the Strasburg-less Nats??? Micheal Morse magic aside, that just stinks like poop.

I mentioned a month or so ago that the bullpen is going to be the downfall of this team. Well, there are other glaring problems, but that bully hasn’t lived up to what it was supposed to do. Franklin ain’t the Franklin of past and there is currently nobody that can slide into that role.

what you've just said... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by gopens44 on Aug 30, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

we didn't even split the series wit the Nats

I think we lost 3 out of 4? I’m trying to block it out though, so I’m not sure

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 30, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

NO DISCLAIMERS!

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Aug 30, 2010 7:57 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

I'm really down on the team

The team was maddeningly inconsistent last year and was infuriating in the post season. This season, they are incredibly frustrating. They have lots of talent, but poor roster construction and inconsistent and shoddy play along with frustrating moves by the front office and on field management seem to take all of the life out of the team.

This is the least excited I have been about the team in years. Currently, they don’t play good baseball and they are not fun to watch. Worse, given the way Mo has run the team since taking over and the desert that is the minor league system, there is little reason to believe that the team will do anything but decline the next few seasons. I look at the Cardinals of 2007-2010, and I see wasted opportunities, a franchise unable to build a solid team around a once a generation talent.

by tarakas on Aug 30, 2010 10:45 PM EDT reply actions  

we'll always have 2006

whatever that was

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 30, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the idea of letting TLR go

is gaining more and more traction all the time….with the fans.
So who would be a realistic replacement?
Anybody know who might be available that’s a decent manager?
I’ve mentioned it before and I know it’s not very realistic, but I wouldn’t mind at all turning the club over to Oquendo. At least for a look-see.
 It might be a total disaster and maybe I overestimate him, but I’d really like to see him get a chance. I think he might have something to bring to the table and I’d like to see what brand of baseball he’d employ. He’s aggressive, that’s what I like about him, and he’s been in baseball a long time….not that that would make him a good manager but I’d like to see what he could do.
 He applied for a manager position a few years ago and didn’t get the job, obviously. Anybody know why? Was that with the Giants?
Anyway, it’s just a whim of mine. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable idea. It’s at least as reasonable as picking up Randy Wynn, Jeff Suppan and Aaron Miles.
They gave the hitting coach job to Big Mac and it doesn’t seem to have done any good….not that I can tell. So why not consider Oquendo? At this point I don’t think it would hurt. And he speaks Spanish to boot!
 Anybody got any thoughts or opinions on it?

Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.

by Dave Pendleton on Aug 31, 2010 2:32 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't know if he'd be more like TLR

or more like Herzog…or more like Oquendo.
one of the reasons I’d like to see it is that he played for Whitey and hopefully has more of that influence ingrained.
 I wouldn’t be expecting the same small ball type stuff but I would hope for a more aggressive style of play.
 Something I’ve noticed a lot (especially lately) is that Tony doesn’t have the instinct for positioning his players that Whitey did. I would hope that Jose would have learned some of that from Whitey.
 I’d like to know how open Tony is to any input from his staff other than Duncan. Does Oquendo or anybody else feel like they can put a bug in his ear, or do they just have to march to his tune and collect a paycheck?
 All this is assuming that Oquendo would still be interested in managing. If he is, he should shoot a resume off to the Cubs right now. That might evoke a confidential offer from the Cardinals….or put him in the driver’s seat in Chicago. The Cubs would have absolutely nothing to lose.

Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.

by Dave Pendleton on Aug 31, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

VEB management system

call the shots from the blog. Dave Duncan remains however. this would be ideal

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

that reminds me

of Bill Veeck holding up big cards to the fans during the game with different plays written on them and letting them decide which play to use.

Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.

by Dave Pendleton on Aug 31, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Fredi Gonzalez

or an internal option from the minors – Pop Warner (AA) or Chris Maloney (AAA).

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Sep 7, 2010 6:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have a bad feeling

this off season could be shaping up to be a messy one and a major turning point for the club. The messy part in my opinion will be Tony leaving and some words will be said that will leave a black eye on the whole organization. If the team fails to make the playoffs (which is looking more and more likely) I think either Tony leaves or will be “let go”. I just have this bad feeling that it won’t be an easy seperation and Tony will say a few things that will cast a bad cloud on the club. I don’t think Tony will specifically badmouth the team as in naming names…but I can see him giving some parting shots that will turn some heads and cause some bad headlines. He may have a few choice words for some members of the FO. I could be totally wrong…but it’s just the vibe I’m feeling. Let’s just hope if Tony does leave his respect of rich Cardinals history and his legacy with the team makes it a smooth departure.

The turning point will be Pujols. If a deal is not reached this winter with him….I just can’t help but think Albert will be looking elsewhere in 2012. This of course will be a HUGE distraction for the team in 2011 if Albert hasn’t signed and nobody wants that. The media (local and national) will push this to an almost LeBron James level. Let’s just hope this doesn’t turn out the way it did for the Cleveland fans.
The other turning point would of course be who replaces Tony if he were to leave and would we lose Duncan as well. One thing for sure is it won’t be a quiet off season. But with that said…there is still a month of baseball to be played and anything can happen. Let’s try to enjoy the rest of the season while we can before the long cold winter hits.

Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon

by KYCards on Aug 31, 2010 5:30 AM EDT reply actions  

I could see Tony not parting gracefully.

 He doesn’t strike me as having that much class and he’s stirred up shit before…openly with Edmonds and more subtly with Rolan. And if somebody crosses him he’s quick on the trigger. You’d expect that from a lawyer.
 However…..I don’t think he’s endeared himself with the local media, so I’m not sure what kind of twist the headlines would have (locally). The bad press might be aimed squarely at him.
 St. Louis fans haven’t seemed to really warm up to Tony…not from the very beginning, and I think it’s mostly his personality more than his ability. Both of those seem to be getting worse. He hasn’t seemed like himself all year and neither has his team. Maybe one of his cats died or something.
As far as Albert,
vivaelpujols is absolutely right…fire La Russa after we resign Pujols.

Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.

by Dave Pendleton on Aug 31, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

hey, where's cardball at?

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

i've been wondering that too.

hope he’s not sick.

Baseball is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole.

by Dave Pendleton on Aug 31, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Albert doesn't sign this winter

sad to say, I think we should explore trade options. He’d still probably bring back a high-end prospect or two and/or maybe a cheap SP.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Sep 7, 2010 6:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

time marches on!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg92QpjRcJk

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 31, 2010 1:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Agree on all points...

’cept #1

Lohse is here for two more years; like it or don’t. He has significantly more talent and ability than Suppan, and I still believe will pitch like a #3/4 when he is finally healthy (see 2008 thru pre-forearm injury 2009). His contract was a mistake the day it was signed, and has been even worse due to injury/ineffectiveness.

With Carp, WW, Jaime and Lohse we have a more than solid top four. It’ll be interesting to see how the last spot is filled. Will KMac get another shot? Will Walters and Lynn be considered in the Spring? Do we try to reup with Westbrook or Penny?

If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.

by cardzfanbub on Sep 1, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

hell no to Penny

Westbrook might make sense if he doesn’t want a lot of $

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 1, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Penny only wants ~$2m or so

and, realistically, I can’t see a queue of teams wanting to give him much more, I think he’d be a good high-upside guy.

He was VERY good this year when healthy.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Sep 7, 2010 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I should add

I just wouldn’t rely on him. Grab him as a reclamation prospect/competition for Lohse for the #5 role.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Sep 7, 2010 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

well yeah

for that much we could just put him in the bullpen

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 8, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that solves our closer problem

I have a feeling that it will take some sort of ‘name’ player for La Russa to trust bumping Franklin out of the closers spot.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Sep 12, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously...?

As Felonius says below…don’t rely on Penny, but he is a #2/3 type pitcher when healthy, while Westbrook is more of a 3/4. I understand the frustration with the injury, but Penny is supemely talented.

If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.

by cardzfanbub on Sep 7, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just expect more injuries out of him

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 8, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

random re's

re replacing Franklin (closer role): maybe I dreamed it but I thought Franklin has already said this was his last year.
re Mac being a lousy batting coach: I know it is not as simple as what I am about to point out, but when Tim McCarver said today during the Reds’ game that (we were watching) the two best hitting teams in the NL, I blurted at the TV “based on what?” I was stunned when I looked up team stats to find that we do indeed have the second best team batting avg in the NL. How the hell, I don’t know.
re the oft repeated fire Tony but somehow keep Duncan: I get more miffed every time I read that. “Keep the ball down; pitch to contact; get ahead in the count” ? Doesn’t EVERY coach say that, try to teach that? Little league coaches even. On the other hand not every coach has a kid who can blow people away with high fast balls and tells him NOT to do that,
re gopens44 not having the "guts’ to initiate his own post: no wonder. When too many people get ripped a new asshole for even trying something.

by the Tewk on Sep 4, 2010 11:47 PM EDT reply actions  

he said that next year is his last year

I think he could be a somewhat productive member of the bullpen (well, basically a great setup guy most likely). but I really wish he wasn’t the closer, I never liked the move of him replacing izzy

"Nah….He’s an infielder. Second base…..I played second base, how hard can it be?"

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 5, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

DFA Mike McDougal

A thousand f’ing times, YES.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Sep 7, 2010 6:09 AM EDT reply actions  

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