First-half failures, second-half failures
by DanUpBaby on Aug 23, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
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PrintJaime Garcia's rookie year has been unequivocally wonderful, but between his more recent performances and the Cardinals' I was worried that yesterday's game could have been a killer—it had the look of an Admiral Ackbar-class trap, the kind of game in which Bryan Anderson goes 1-2 and Mike MacDougal throws three innings.
Now, I'm certainly a MacDougal and Anderson fan, but the three-hitter and the forfeit score worked for me. I've been waiting nervously for Garcia to wipe out since the second half began, but whenever it seems like it's about to happen he puts together an excellent outing like this. Maybe he's just a very good pitcher—not as good as his ERA right now, but better than we had any right to expect. I'll always be worried about his arm, and I'll worry for the rest of the season about his workload, but he's clearly still capable of pitching at this inexplicably high level.
The offense came from literally every spot in the lineup; even Jaime Garcia got a hit. But the parts we weren't taking for granted came from the players who spent most of the first half of the season trying to figure out whether OPS+ stopped at zero (ask TPJ—it doesn't!). In the first half the Cardinals started two players whose OPSes sat 50 points below Joe Thurston's 2009 mark. In the second half those two players are hitting an admittedly empty .330 and .293.
When everybody's hitting, baseball is considerably more enjoyable to watch. Unfortunately for us, not everybody's hitting; losing Colby Rasmus to injury and ineffectiveness (.914 in the first half, .683 since) and Felipe Lopez to super-ineffectiveness (.203/.293/.280 since the break) has all but wiped out the Cardinals' back-of-the-lineup gains and, in Lopez's case, necessitated trading for a guy who's hit .229/.250/.323 all year. Which, yes, is worse. I don't know. Don't think about it.
Don't think about it because the Cardinals at least went 1-2 on depth yesterday afternoon. They may have felt required to trade for a ninetieth-string third baseman, but their outfield, picked clean by trades and Colby Rasmus's fragility, drove in four runs. Believe, for a moment, in romantic comedy serendipity, if not the romantic comedy Serendipity: Allen Craig and Jon Jay were drafted so that at this exact moment in time the Cardinals didn't feel compelled to trade for Jose Guillen, while they were at it.
Unfortunately the money quote is only in the headline to this Post-Dispatch piece, and not the article, because short of a brief look at Pedro Feliz's career nothing exemplifies the ill-fatedness of the Cardinals' new third base acquisition than the words "Cards expect Feliz to hit better."
Well, a little, probably. How does a rest-of-season ZiPS of .231/.266/.342 sound? That's like 40 points higher! Nice!
I'd love to be wrong about the Pedro Feliz trade, but unless Mozeliak has his own fanpost set to go about the flaws the team noticed in Feliz's weird swing or the reason Feliz's UZR has been held down this year I don't think great results justify the move this time. It's not just having to watch Pedro Feliz—bad process is what's so worrying. Mozeliak and the Cardinals looked at a real problem where the best solution might have just been to stand pat, and their response was to make a seemingly arbitrary decision that offers little upside over the problem to begin with.
There are a lot of situations in which the Cardinals' process has been both easily understandable and easy to love. The Cardinals appear to have drafted well of late, though we won't see dividends for a while, and they've also begun spending on bonuses in a manner more in keeping with their station in the payroll ranks. (Unironic references to DeWallet have reached seven-year lows.) Other things, like the Kyle Lohse deal, have been both easy to follow and probably wrong.
But since Mozeliak took over no move has been so oblique and problematic all at once. All I can hope is that the Cardinals appear to luck out over the last month of the season while, behind the scenes, Dave Duncan continues to work on his skunkworks swing-tipping project. That's the only way I can imagine this trade making sense and working out well.
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I'd reallly like to believe that Feliz will turn it around here in St. Louis
and be a valuable piece to this team. But its like trying to believe Santa Claus (SPOILER ALERT) is going to bring me a new car for Christmas on the back of his theoretical sleigh. Nothing is impossible, but very very very close.
And I can’t believe that Thurston’s stats are greater than…anyones.
Also, I was looking for angry Tony LaRussa pics on Google images for a photoshop project that Im working on for VEB. And for some reason, on the first page, I scrolled down and found my former avatar (the previous Keith Stone one) and it came up as Vivaelbirdos/Heisenberg. I must have commented on Tony being pissed off at some point. But on the other hand, frickin’ awesome.
'Hold my stones!'
----Always smooth----
...This what I was working on
If its not that cool then well, effort wasted. And if you wanna redo your own copy, then go ahead. Just an idea.
'Hold my stones!'
----Always smooth----
by Heisenberg on Aug 23, 2010 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
First time I looked at this
looked like Craig had long hair, and I freaked out.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
i thought it was Timmy
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
must be rec'd
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
I must say
I do prefer the Ray Harryhausen, 1981 version of COTT. Ursula Andress (damn…) and stop-motion animation in one place – I’m there!
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
Garcia is sitting at 141 innings pitched
At the beginning of the year I was thinking I’d like to get 150 IP out of him.
Of course, I had NO FREAKING IDEA how badly we might need him in September.
And he's core!
From the latest Jeff Passan column:
“So St. Louis it almost certainly is, with La Russa heading back to his comfortable core of Pujols, Wainwright, Holliday, Rasmus, Carpenter and Garcia…”
The question is whether TLR described him as "core," not whether Passan does.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
As much as I'd like to rest him.....
I don’t see how we can, unless Lohse starts pitching much, much better.
Watched the game yesterday on MLB.tv
I was busy during the bulk of the day, so I ended up loading up the telecast after the fact, and skipped the commercials and the home halves where we didn’t do anything (i.e., didn’t actually much).
Definitely agreed with the guys on KSDK when, in the top of the eighth inning, they said Yadi would phsically fight with the coaching staff if they tried to pull him, to give him a break at the end of a laugher. Yadi and Jaime were in complete sync, and I don’t think I’ve seen a more efficient, smoothly dominant performance in the last five years.
But I’m glad it was so quick and seemingly effortless, because those two guys probably have been leaned upon far too much this season. Verducci-effect or not, Garcia is still not that far away from having been shelved due to arm surgery, and the workload issue is both troubling and distracting, to him and the rest of the team. I want him to continue pitching like he has, and do it every fifth day for the rest of the season. But I’m not about to risk Bud Smith-ing him, and lose what we found here all too soon.
Molina, on the other hand, has been a guy who TLR & Co. have consistently overused, with seemingly little effort being made to give him consistent breaks in these Missouri dog days. I realize that virtually any pitcher, given a choice of Yadi or just about anybody else to catch them, is going to want Yadi behind the plate. But, here too, is an area of concern, because I would really prefer Yadi to start with frequent breaks from BAnd, rather than Brian pressed into the starter’s role and … Pag … na … (blech, just threw up in mouth a little) some less-capable player getting the spot starts. All for wont of simple respite…
I want these guys to continue making regular, high quality contributions, but I also really don’t know how much more the dilythium crystals can take, Cap’n. Let’s dial it down to the impulse drives every now and then, before the warp nacelles fall off, OK?
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
by Rejuvenile on Aug 23, 2010 9:10 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Lohse starts today against Pit
If Anderson doesn’t start I will be very very confused.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Krusty the Clown says...
“Huhuhuhuh, I could pull a better starting pitcher out of my… Whoa ho ho, hey kids! Wasn’t Lohse great?”
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
by Rejuvenile on Aug 23, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Anderson's not starting
Craig Carton, radio host:
"If you’re a senior citizen going to Citi Field today, be careful because K-Rod might punch you in the face."
Caller:
"Nah, I wouldn’t worry about it Craig, the Mets haven’t beaten people in back-to-back games since June."
I'd like to get my hands on her ample nacelles if you'll pardon the engineering parlance.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Aug 23, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Mobile texting
I would just like to comment that the previous post, by my Evil Twin, Rejuvenile, was done on a Blackberry on the morning commute into work (thankfully I was driving while this was going on). And with only a few glaring mistakes for which I will ridicule him mercilessly.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
And I would just like to comment
that I’ve told my Evil Twin to suck my nads for his earlier comment.
Apparently there will also be a slap fight between the two of us 12-year olds.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
I find this all the more amusing having actually met the two of you now.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
nads
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Aug 23, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
hehehe
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Aug 23, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait...
you two (twins) ride to work together everyday?
Nothing against youz guyz’ looks, but I bet that creeps people out.
I'm guessing the conversations in the car go like this:
Are we there yet?
No.
Are we there yet?
No.
Are we there yet?
No!
Are we there yet?
NO!!!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I would never be involved in so infantile a conversation!
I will however take my phone and angle it so the sun reflects off of it into my brother’s eyes as he’s driving. When we used to listen to the radio, I’d play Musical Freeze Out!, where a really horrendous song comes on and you see how long you can stand it before you have to change the channel (iPod pretty much makes that moot now). Plus peripheral vision distraction techniques are always fun (staring, making faces, etc.). Y’know, stuff 12 year olds do.
We work together in the same office, carpool together, share an apartment – plenty of opportunities to give each other crap, all day. We actually don’t take advantage of it too much, i.e., we can actually get some stuff done at work and stay out of each other’s way at home (separate computers help).
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
i dont know how you do that, i live w/ my bro & we're about to kill each other
if we had to drive to work & work together someone would die
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
Infantile -> Juvenile -> Rejuvenile
i’m not convinced
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
No offense taken
I do take offense when people don’t notice we’re twin brothers, and assume we’re just some nice gay couple.
We have to be careful what we say to each other in public, because standard locker-room humor takes on an entirely different context when people mistakenly think you’re gay. It goes from good natured ribbing to a list of what we’re planning on doing later tonight.
“I love the pussy! A’ight?”
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
by Rejuvenile on Aug 23, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm literally in tears from laughing at that.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 23, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched it too....
…can’t remember the last cards win that was sooo satisfying! Jaime was masterful with only 89 pitches, and the offense scored often and cowstantly menaced. Everybody looked good, and even the Giants announcers had nice things to say about our players, especially Jaime and Jay. Great stuff! I was highly entertained in that last inning when Flop took over at 1st, Miles at second, and Winn in the OF because I knew there would be VEBers having huge, dramatic cowniptions – especially after that 3rd hit went by a diving Scrappy Doo.
Carp laid down the glove; Jaime picked it up and ran with it. Hopefully the next starter will do the same. GO CARDS!!!!
:=8D
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I'm not sure how one or two innings
would make much of a difference over the course of the season, like I heard Jay and Ricky (I think?) talking about yesterday. It was still hot and it wasn’t like he was going to sit in the clubhouse.
It was just another half hour of being out there.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
it's not inexplicable when Jaime worships Carp and Waino.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
looking at the pitching rotation for the next 13 games...
tonight: lohse
tomorrow: wainwright
wednesday: westbrook
thursday: carp
friday: garcia
satruday: lohse
sunday: wainwright
monday: westbrook
tuesday: carp
wednesday: garcia
thursday: OFF
REDS SERIES:
friday: wainwright
saturday: westbrook
sunday: carpenter
i think it’s very, very clear that you skip lohse and use the off day to your advantage to throw wainwright, westbrook, and carpenter vs the reds. anything else is just stupid.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 9:39 AM EDT reply actions
I suspect that TLR will do just that.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
we can only hope.
for two reasons:
1. i’m going to that friday game. it would really, really suck if that was a lohse game instead of a wainwright game like it should be. you don’t just give up games to the reds.
2. that would mean carpenter wouldn’t start on sunday unless you bumped westbrook. and if you bump someone, it should be your worst pitcher, not westbrook.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
YES!!!
I hope that rotation sticks. I’m going to the Carpenter start agasint the Reds.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
that will be awesome
Chris Carpenter for Manager
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker, on Jason Motte
in order to skip Garcia
Suppan might start the game before the off day since rosters can be expanded that day. Also adjusting the rotation after Cincy by using Suppan as a sixth starter adjusts the rotation for Atlanta to Waino, Westbrook, Carp and Garcia. This does give Suppan two starts, but keeps Jaime a little longer and lets Lohse start at home instead in Atlanta.
And yeah I get to watch Carp Thursday but alas no Strasburg.
....which is a good thing. strasburg is an automatic loss.
as for starting suppan to rest garcia, i’m not in favor, even though it does set up the rotation nicely for atlanta. starting suppan as a sixth starter is basically giving two games away at the back end of your rotation.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
He said he's feeling better. There's an MRI scheduled for today.
They still might shut him down, though.
jprutherford- Bud Norris could get @dgoold and @matthewhleach to stop twittering. #layup
by The Continental on Aug 23, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I think they will shut him down
…unless the MRI comes back completely clean. This is two problems in pretty short order, and he’s the franchise. I think he’ll be ok, but what the heck do I know.
Either way, I’m sure he’ll at least miss a start.
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Aug 23, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Last I heard, that hadn't been announced
but the Nats did say they would shelve him for a while.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
Strasburg may not have an arm by the time we see him
He’s starting down the Kerry Wood path to the bullpen. I know, still too early, but i hate media darlings.
by LexTalionis on Aug 23, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Why is starting Suppan "giving away two games"?
You say it as if the Cards have no shot at winning those games. Did you know that in the 8 starts Sup has for the Cardinals this year, he’s averaging giving up only 2.5 runs per game? He’s given up more than 4 runs (5 runs to the cubs) once and has given up 0 or 1 run 3 times (Mariners, Dodgers, Pirates) and 2 runs once (A’s).
Did you also know that the team went 3-5 in his starts?
I’m not saying he should be in the rotation, but to suggest that starting him is a loss, then I’d say to the offense to get their shit together. The offense has put up 3.375 runs in his starts and that’s skewed mightily by the 11 spot they put on the Pirates. Take that out and they’ve scored 2.28 runs in his starts.
Most pitchers would look like failures when your team barely scores 2 runs when you start.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Defensive improvement can't hurt either
He doesn’t miss too many bats!
by LexTalionis on Aug 23, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome to the 80's.
We won most of those games back then because we had top shelf defense for most of a decade.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 23, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome to the 80's.
We won most of those games back then because we had top shelf defense for most of a decade, not because we had the best rotation in baseball, a la 90’s Braves.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 23, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually,
we won most of those games in the 80s (in the years when we won) because we had a top 3 offense in the league, thanks to Whitey’s early emrace of the whole OBP IS LIFE, LIFE IS OBP truism.
The defense helped, certainly, as did one of the toughest pitchers’ parks in the game.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Aug 23, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Ask Pitchers in KC and Pitt.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 23, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
So is everyone over the
“getting Feliz is the worst move of the year and mozeliaks worst move as a gm” thing? Cause that got old fast on Friday.
by lopey986 on Aug 23, 2010 9:48 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
he is going to hit
.462 the rest of the year
Obviously not
But at the same time, what were the other options? Keep riding Lopez who has put up worse numbers since the break than feliz’ season numbers?
by lopey986 on Aug 23, 2010 9:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
bring up T Greene,
or try Craig for a bit longer. If both those fail, you’ve still got a shot at getting Blum or Feliz (as we all know, no one else would have taken them) or you put Gotay on the 40 man and call him up. There were internal options that were yet to be explored.
Padres' RFL for GG!
Yes...
You don’t play a guy who’s been a bad hitter since t-ball league over a guy who’s been a bad hitter since the ASB. The latter will give you better performance 95% of the time.
Lopez’s OBP since the ASB is 304. That’s 60 points higher than Feliz’s 2010 number and 15 points higher than his career number.
Fire La Russa!
by guayzimi on Aug 23, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So Lopez is walking a little more
And feliz has shown more power and they both have identical ops numbers. Feliz is a better defensive 3rd baseman too.
I’m not saying bench Lopez or anything, but him and Craig do not need to be playing the hot corner more than once a week.
by lopey986 on Aug 23, 2010 10:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You are incorrect.
This season, Felipe Lopez has an OPS of .683 (.309 wOBA) and Feliz has an OPS of .577 (.251 wOBA).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I was comparing Lopez # from the break
To feliz full season numbers as was done in the main post.
by lopey986 on Aug 23, 2010 10:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
....my quick smells like french toast...
Twitter: @mstreeter06
by mstreeter06 on Aug 23, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
-3
Back to 0
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Aug 23, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
So?
It’s a somewhat arbitrary cut-off point and doesn’t really mean that much. It takes a small sample size (part of an incomplete season) and slashes it even further.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is you're...
looking at 10 years of data that says Feliz is a bad hitter and rating that as equal to six weeks of data that says Lopez is a bad hitter.
In the month of August Lopez is hitting 155. But what does that amount to? He’s come to bat 68 times, he’s walked 9 times, had 9 hits, he made 50 outs of which 14 were strikeouts. That means he put the ball in play 45 times, which resulted in 36 outs and the 9 hits.
Within the 45 balls in play he hit 9 line drives, 19 grounders, and the rest fly balls. Typically that would result in about 14 hits, but his balls in play have been finding gloves. If he had gotten 14 hits instead of 9, he would’ve batted almost 100 points higher than he did in August and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
That’s why you don’t bench a good hitter because he had a month.
Fire La Russa!
personally
I think Lopez was taking his bad defense with him to the plate. Players often talk about not taking their bad offense with them to the field – here, I think it was working the other way. I expect Lopez to relax and hit better the rest of the season now that he doesn’t have to play third base.
How could Lopez's bad defense...
cause him to hit ground balls and line drives at opposing fielders instead of to the spaces between the opposing fielders?
Fire La Russa!
he is trying to pick up tips on fielding by watching the other guys do it?
You fit into me
like a hook into an eye
a fish hook
an open eye
by Red Blazer on Aug 23, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
well, guay
I’ll take it that Lopez put 45 balls in play in August but how hard did he hit all of them? That rate may average 14 hits but that doesn’t mean he’s been unlucky. Nine line drives are not going to translate into 9 hits, since some are always going to be at a fielder. And most of the ground balls may have been hit softly, which would not translate into many hits. Perhaps Lopez has been trying to do too much offensively (e.g., trying to hit homers) to make up for his lousy defense. It’s hard to know for sure but this is one way that bad defense could affect your ability to hit. BTW, I agree with your basic point that he shouldn’t be benched – just trying to say that having the pressure on him to play third may have affected his hitting.
...
Nine line drives are not going to translate into 9 hits, since some are always going to be at a fielder.
This is correct. But every single weakly hit ground ball or fly ball isn’t going to be a hit – just ask Aaron Miles. Bottom line, when you put 45 balls in play and only bat .200 on those, you are getting unlucky.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 23, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Aaron Miles has mastered the art of the bleeding single...
…and the blooped base hit. He is a true warrior of these strategies and would happily fight you off to prove it.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
No, Miles is actually kind of a badass
He fought off a gun-wielding attacker in a hotel room a few years back. Seriously. He’s probably pretty damn strong. He is a professional athlete after all… he just isn’t a good baseball player.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
or it may not have.
we’ve learnt a lot here.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
And most of the ground balls may have been hit softly, which would not translate into many hits.
Aaron Miles would like a word with you.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
spending extra time taking ground balls
instead of his normal BP or watching Video of the pitcher?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
hopefully Feliz doesn't result in Lopez benching
Maybe gives lopez a day or two off here and there. But it allows Lopez to play second on Days when Miles would have and keeps Miles on the bench instead of starting at 2nd.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Watching Lopez at second base was fantastic
I was at the game yesterday and could’t help noticing how much more natural he looks there than any other option. I knew we were giving something up by playing others at 2b, but the way Lopez turned the double plays and compensated for Ryan’s errant flips was fun to see for a change.
by LexTalionis on Aug 23, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't want them to bench lopez permanently
Nor do I think they’d do that. But I’d like to get him away from 3rd a little bit and maybe he’ll pick it up at the plate if he is more comfortable on defense.
by lopey986 on Aug 23, 2010 10:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Arguably the only possible argument for Feliz:
against left-handed pitchers, with Lopez at 3B, we either play Miles (ugh) or Skip (who can’t hit LHP) at 2B. Also, Feliz hasn’t been TOO bad against lefties this year (he’s been beyond abysmal against RHP).
So, vs LHP:
Lopez 3B, Boog SS, Lopez 2B
vs RHP:
Lopez 3B, Boog SS, Schu 2B
Ideally I’d mix Tyler Greene in there for some spot starts at all three positions and dump Miles (although tbh I think it’s highly likely Greene is a better 3B, all-round, than Feliz is now so you could argue he should be starting there vs LHP).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
If this happens, then there is no way I'm missing games versus LHP
by AWolfAtTheDoor on Aug 23, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh.
I meant Feliz 3B vs LHP.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Felipe Lopez has been around one run below average on defense at third this season,
and around three runs below average with the bat.
Pedro Feliz over his entire career averages about -10 with the bat every season, and he is headed to double that total this season. He is a worse hitter than our all-field no-hit shortstop. For Feliz to make up the 17 run difference between his and Lopez’s bat, he would have to be a +17 defender, as good as our two best defenders last year, Colby Rasmus and Boog, combined.
More importantly, Tyler Greene has been an above average defender in the minors, is a decent hitter, and he is an excellent baserunner. Ruben Gotay is playing 3B at Memphis and is a better hitter than Feliz with a better eye than many of the players on our roster. Allen Craig is Allen Craig. None of these people were given a proper shot at 3B.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
Ummm
throw out the numbers, Feliz was down right slick yesterday. It got to the point I no longer cringed when balls were hit to third base.
You fit into me
like a hook into an eye
a fish hook
an open eye
Yeah, but now I cringe whenever he comes to the plate
by vivaelpujols on Aug 23, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
did you watch his ABs?
i bet i could take better looking swings than him
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
the swing suggests the kind of results he will get
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
in the same way that McDonalds 'suggests' that it serves food?
and not over-processed food-like product?
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Sorry I was attacking the word 'suggests'
which I find to be a weak word. Anything can suggest anything.
I know what yer saying, but honestly as long as the results are good. Didja ever see Willie McGee’s swing? He looked like he was hacking through a Panamerican jungle with an incontinent walrus – but he got the results.
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
and when has feliz ever gotten those kind of results?
he’s just not a good hitter and his swing looks like carp’s
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
He used to be able to drive the ball moore...
…I’m just hoping some of that comes back, with a quick adjustment of his hitting mechanics and a bit of veteran pride coupled with the excitement of a pennant race and being on the same field as Albert (which I insist helps via osmosis to make hitters better!).
I dunno, we’ll see cow it all plays out. I don’t expect greatness, or even goodness, but I do hope for competency.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
yeah
mcdonalds sucks!
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
>implying that the inverse is necessarily true
the dude has an awful swing and that is necessarily why he is a bad hitter
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Dick in a toaster
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Tyler Greene, Ruben Gotay,
if lopez looked bad there it’s not as though we had to make the biggest possible offensive downgrade this side of starting Matt Pagnozzi at third to get a player who is better on defense there.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
I agree with the second half, we had other options
However, i think Lopez was worse at third than that -1 indicates. His throws to Albert were garbage just about every time, plus Feliz is bound to pick it up a little bit playing for a “winning” team. With those corrections i think we saved Albert some wear and tear(or potentially worse), gained a better second baseman, and gained a tad more upside all the way around due to better defense on both sides.
by LexTalionis on Aug 23, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Tyler Greene, Ruben Gotay,
sure standing pat with Lopez at third is only very likely to give us better production than what we will get from Feliz, but we already had other players who are better hitters than Feliz while also being better defenders than Lopez.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
Gotay
hasn’t sniffed the majors since 117 PA’s in 2008 (79 were as a PH). He’s had 7 career starts at 3B. He’s a 2B trying to reinvent himself as a utility player for the last five years.
Sounds like Ankiel.
Without the busted rookie phenom history.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 23, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And Feliz has been among the worst starters in baseball the last two years.
He has never hit for crap and he has lost a step on defense. Gotay is definitely a better hitter and, like I said, is the 3B in memphis right now. If his defense were just average in the majors he could be a 10 run upgrade over Feliz.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
False.
Feliz was nearly average last year. From 03-09 he was basically a tick above average. He’s just fallen off a cliff this year…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 24, 2010 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Feliz hasn't been an average hitter since 2004
He’s had around an 80 wRC+ over the past couple of years.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 24, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say "average hitter". I said "average".
He’s a garbage hitter and has pretty much always been, a couple of blips aside. He’s always been an elite defensive 3B, though, and that combo was good for 1.7 WAR last time round and an average in excess of 2 WAR/yr from 2003-2009.
I appreciate there’s a very real chance he’s fallen off a cliff this year, offensively, to the point where even a good glove doesn’t make him useful; looking at his batted ball profile and peripherals it certainly looks like this could be the case.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 25, 2010 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Keep riding Lopez who has put up worse numbers since the break than feliz’ season numbers?
Yes. Lopez is a far better than he’s shown and than Feliz so you ride the guy until he pulls out of his tailspin. He’s not actually been that bad defensively it’s just when he errs he looks awful doing it. Hence the perception is that he’s an abject defensive disaster when that’s not completely accurate. Of course Feliz has a history of being a good fielder and is probably better than his results this season would suggest, but even with that in mind Lopez is a better all-around package.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Many VEBers Cried Fowl when I said earlier in the year that Miles was Gonna hit .300...
true, without much or any power, although he is slugging .355, which is right on his career mark of .356. So he’s never had any power, but he is currently worth 0.3 WAR so there’s that.
I don’t see Happy Pete hitting .300 the rest of the year, mooch less .462, but he cud hit sayyyyy .286 with maybe a few dingers and some walks, play some decent D, and be an actual good pick-up. Stranger things have happened.
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Miles almost always slaps his way
to or near a .300 average.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
miles has just gotten incredibly lucky
i’ll take it, but it still doesn’t mean he’s any good.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
His wOBA is .301.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Give it time.
We heard the same crap about Stavinoha when he was hitting well. Looked as his stats recently?
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
This.
I hate, hate rooting against players on my team, but there’s definitely a part of me that wants to see Miles strike out a lot during garbage time to drive his line back down to DFA levels so that he can be replaced by someone talented.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
i've been to several games since miles was signed.
and i can say i actively groan every time he gets a hit.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
It's a cognitive dissonance that I'm familiar with from fantasy baseball,
and one of the reasons I scarcely play anymore. I hate having to root against players or teams I like because they are against my FB team. In this case, Miles getting hits is damaging to the future performance of the team even as it is helpful to the short-term. If the at-bats are low leverage enough, I always root against the guy, because I can’t stand the idea of his awful defense, baserunning, and complete lack of power being on the roster over Tyler Greene, a guy who has something good in all of those departments.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
exactly.
the running joke between my buddy and i is that if miles comes in the game in the eighth and gets a hit and makes a decentish play that any average second baseman could make, we bitch and moan because it means he’ll start tomorrow, which is damaging to the team. having miles on the team over greene (who actually plays a little bit of third base and hits for at least some power, of which miles has none) is inexcusable.
now, with the addition of an actual third baseman, smart people could think miles playing time will greatly diminish. ryan and feliz look to be everyday starters on the left side of the infield (positions miles should never play anyway), and skippy/flippy have second base locked down. miles should only be in the game in garbage time, and that’s exactly what happened yesterday. still don’t want him on my team though.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
You assume him starting is damaging to the team...
…it may not necessarily be so. Really, has he cost us a win yet?
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
him starting is damaging the team.
skip’s and felipe’s projected numbers going forward are much, much better than aaron freaking miles.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The Internet is full of interesting stuff... ;=8)
“…correlation is a necessary but not a sufficient condition to make causal inferences with reasonable confidence. Also necessary is an appropriate method of data collection. To make such causal inferences one must gather the data by experimental means, controlling extraneous variables which might confound the results. Having gathered the data in this fashion, if one can establish that the experimentally manipulated variable is correlated with the dependent variable (and that correlation does not need to be linear), then one should be (somewhat) comfortable in making a causal inference. That is, when the data have been gathered by experimental means and confounds have been eliminated, correlation does imply causation.”
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Like the correlation between playing terrible players and losing baseball games.
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
which weathermen still have trouble predicting, in spite of all their data and statistical analysis
I Hate Jason Marquis!!!
:=8O
The MooTroll
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
by prophetjohn on Aug 23, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
think about THAT.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
by IHeartBoog on Aug 23, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that can be quantified accurately
However, i have seen a few games where consecutive balls hit well within MLB range at second base of him were missed upon him diving to the ground. Balls that are barely out of a normal infielders body width, it’s hard to say how the ripple effect from those affects things. Especially since his bat is not impressive(at best).
Again..
…dick in a toaster.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
We aren't going to DFA Aaron Miles
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Aug 23, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
that sentence hits like a fist
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know it's true
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Aug 23, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
we can't even DFA Nick Stavinoha
my hopes aren’t high for cutting the Miles ties
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes but we can't handle
the truth (nor can T. Greene).
True story
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
but it feels so right...
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Aug 23, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
was waiting for someone to post this...
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Stav since ASB
5 plate appearances – 2 hits. We may see some more PH from Stav after rosters expand but I doubt we’ll see a start barring numerous injuries that is. I am fine with Stav pinch hitting for the pitchers then returning to the bench. Lessens the double switch options from Tony.
If we're burning a roster spot for a pinch hitter
Mark Hamilton would be a better option.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Both can be called up
when rosters expand since both are on the 40 man and having the LH option would be nice. I just don’t want to see Miles as the PH.
That was mostly b/c
he was forced into a role of getting more AB’s then he should have.
In a pure pinch hitting role, I think Stavi is better than Craig, Greene, Miles, and any other option we have.
no way man.
you can’t honestly tell me that with 2 outs and the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth in a 1 run cardinals deficit, you’d rather have stavinoha batting than craig or greene.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
good thing you're not the manager then.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why?
most of the PAs he’s taken so far in his career have been as a pinch hitter and his career line is a sucktastic .234/.259/.326. He’s been a bit unlucky but he’s not very good.
His struggles are “mostly because” he’s not a good hitter.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Not walk-off
We were on the road
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Aug 23, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
when you have Ryan F'ing Franklin
might as well call it a walkoff, brah.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
PH career stats
.269/.306/.463 in 72 PA’s (out of 252 PA for career). His starting actually pulls down his stats. Let him take that 7th inning AB for the starter and keep him off the field.
He's really only had 72 PAs as a pinch hitter?
are you including PAs where he came in as a pinch hitter but stayed in the game?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
B-R Page
I used the defensive position table for the stats. The split on sub/starter is
Sub stat – .253/.286/.430/.716 in 84 PA
Starter – .225/.246/.275/.521 in 168 PA
Well there ya go.
Probably almost meaninglessly small sample sizes, though. I’m fine with him as 25th man & pinch hitter if there’s no-one better but I think Winn and Craig are both demonstrably better hitters so they should be on the roster ahead of him, as pinch hitters or otherwise.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
If we had unlimited roster space I wouldn't mind Miles
He chokes up on that tiny bat and seems to always see a few pitches before making some kind of contact. He knows exactly what he is and what he has to do to help the team in his at-bats. On the other hand, he is truly dreadful on the other side of the ball and should not be allowed to bring a fielding glove to the games. He is a once or twice a week, situational pinch-hitter, (and part-time mascot perhaps?) that doesn’t serve enough purpose to take a roster spot.
by LexTalionis on Aug 23, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
also agreed
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Without Him the Cards...
…would be a bunch of GRIT-less fops or luggaging psychopaths…
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I don't know.
But, I did a Fanpost on the League of Guys LIke Russ Springer.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This team would win the division by 3 games while having 0 total war
C Mike Metheny
1B George Hendrick
2B Bo Hart
SS Aaron Miles
3B Placido Polanco
RF Dane Iorg
CF Jim Edmonds
LF Tom Brunansky
P Bob Tewksbury
CL Jeff Lahti
Fire La Russa!
edmonds would have 6-7 WAR by himself
hard to think all the other guys would suck that much. and mike matheny is offended he is on this team.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess it would depend on whether these...
guys were at their peak. Miles and Hart would nullify Edmonds.
Fire La Russa!
Grit, as distinguished from a lack of grit, did not exist...
prior to 1982 because all the players were gritty (except for Keith Hernandez, he was always a smooth mofo…)
Fire La Russa!
maybe it's an old edmonds
still gritty
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, where's Rex Hudler?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
An inexcusable oversight
I mostly just picked off this http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/pos.shtml
Fire La Russa!
grittiest of the gritty
true grit
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that AFM does not have grit..but wouldn't the X-Factor be there instead.
I mean he had enough grit to win the WS MVP on grit alone.
Cow...
…Please put down batting average. You’ve been around here long enough that you have to know you can’t trot that out anymore.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
lol wut
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Aug 23, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is still below average...
…and buoyed by a remarkably fortunate .330 BABIP.
The A-Rod comparison cowparison is laughable. Yeah A-Rod’s got a below-average OBP this season but is also slugging .452 and has a wOBA 51 points higher than Miles’s. A-Rod’s horribly horribly horribly horribly overpaid but he’s still been productive.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It is laughable, that's why I suggested it...
;=8)
We can say that ARod is doing no better that Miles!
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
You could but it would be incorrect to say that
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
No Worries....
I wasn’t saying it to be cowrrect, I was saying it because I hate the Yankee & ARod and to piss off any lurking Yankee fans. i find the need to be cowrrect to be an over-rated hassle…
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
no... That's having aaron miles on the team
Feliz is the second worse move.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I hate having a 25th man hitting 310.
by lopey986 on Aug 23, 2010 9:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
...
…….
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by vivaelpujols on Aug 23, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I hate having a 25th man incapable of defending any position on the diamond satisfactorily and who is also a terrible base-runner.
I also hate having a 25th man with a .301 wOBA.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm a huge fan of sabermetrics
Especially when it comes to fantasy baseball, but I still feel like there’s more to it when it comes to assembling an actual MLB 25 man roster. If there wasn’t wouldn’t every MLB team just attempt to get the best WAR players every year?
by lopey986 on Aug 23, 2010 10:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
because they'll all end up like the yankees
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
You would be shocked...
the extent to which people in power don’t actually know what they’re doing. If the CEOs of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers were willing to buy billions of their own mortgage backed securities, why is it hard to believe that major league executives are fuzzy about what makes a good player?
People with jobs in major league baseball seriously talk about the problem of “clogging the bases”. Aaron Miles is on the active roster of a major league baseball team. What more evidence do you need that these guys do dumb things?
Fire La Russa!
by guayzimi on Aug 23, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm not saying the people in power are right
Im just saying I’d like to believe there’s more to baseball than what can be calculated on a computer, otherwise baseball really would be as boring as most people say it is.
by lopey986 on Aug 23, 2010 10:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wait, so you're saying you don't find late nights in the basement,
with spreadsheets and your mom’s leftover lasagna intoxicating?
"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy
Sounds perfect...
I’d toss the lasagna and eat the spreadsheets, but that’s just a quibble.
Fire La Russa!
Your mom's leftover lasagna
is good.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
There's more to it than that, obviously
but it’s not always PERFORMANCE-related criteria. We forget that the people involved are human beings, and the world of baseball is traditionally quite a closed shop. Fans sometimes demand action from a front office. There are pressures of payroll and performance trickling down from ownership. There are complex politics within the clubhouse and the FO. All these factors and more can lead GMs and front offices to make sub-optimal player-related decisions.
My best guess would be that the body of “bad” moves (like the Feliz acquisition) made every year are probably partly simply poor analysis/player-evaluation from dumb front offices, partly moves made for political reasons as above (or at least in part for those sort of reasons), and probably a very few outright cases where the club has some proprietary scouting or statistical method which goes against the received wisdom on a player’s value in some way. In most cases, I imagine there’s an interplay from all three factors.
In the Feliz case, I’m guessing pressure from TLR/fans/ownership to make a move, a possibly misguided opinion that upgrading defense was a must within the front office, a lack of any money to take on a salary dump, possibly a slight inadequacy in player evaluation (?) within the organisation, and a reluctance to part with any meaningful minor league talent were all factors in the deal.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
that's how I see the Feliz move
I think there’s a bit of a split in philosophies going on… they just got Feliz to appease some of the more old school people in the organization and to make it look like they are trying to the fans and media
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
and like most of the veteran acquisitions this year, in isolation (and looking at the bigger picture), at worst it only makes the team marginally worse. However, as Azru very correctly noted this week, these peripheral losses in production, whilst marginal in isolation, add up to potentially major mistakes in a close pennant race when the team makes so many of them in a season.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
this team hasn’t been doing itself any favors
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Throw statistics out and just watch the man field, hit, and run the bases.
Anyone who has paid a fair amount of attention to the game of baseball could see that Aaron Miles is not good, except TLR and Mo, apparently.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Oh dear
.310 with an ungodly-fortunate BABIP of .330 (ungodly fortunate because there’s no way anyone should have a BABIP that high when they literally hit the majority of their balls-in-play on the ground and only hit 10% of them on a line) and yet his wOBA is still a miserable .301. Think about that. He’s been lucky to get as many hits as he has and yet his wOBA is only three-oh-one. His OPS is .688 and that’s with an inflated batting average. He’s been lucky and he’s still been godawful terrible. And he can’t even field.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
he's projected to be the worst player in baseball going forward.
at least feliz can field. miles just plain sucks at baseball.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I know it is terribly cool on here to rip on players that have bad stats.
I have been more than guilty of it myself when it comes to Aaron Miles, but I’ve had enough of it. It’s not fun anymore. I will support the players on the team. I will try and support the manager although that is way harder than trusting a player who isn’t playing well. I will try and support the FO but again, it’s harder to do, when you don’t know why they are doing what they are doing.
Anyway. I’m glad that Feliz has gotten off to a great start. I hope it will continue. I realize that it may not, at least on offense. On defense, I’m really glad he is here.
I will celebrate our starting pitchers cause they are awesome. I expect Lohse will improve.
My name is spfldbird. Pass me the kool-aid.
"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright
by spfldbird on Aug 23, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully, whatever ghost that possessed Julio Lugo has possessed Feliz.
Lugo posted a .351 wOBA last season with St. Louis and has posted a .266 wOBA this season with Baltimore. Of course, Lugo was once a good offensive player while Feliz hasn’t ever been a good offensive player, but, where possession of ghosts is concerned, I don’t think it matters.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yep
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
by STLRegalia on Aug 23, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
O-face?
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Aug 23, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That would keep people from going into second hard.
Wait…..wat?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 23, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I had to read that 3 or 4 times...
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 24, 2010 6:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Feliz has occasionally been a non-awful offensive player, though
I’d settle for that.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
That was in 2003 and 2004, though.
That was when Feliz was in his late 20s, at his peak for offensive production. He bookended those two seasons with multiple seasons of offensive awfulness. There is no reason not to think that a .300 wOBA is a best case scenario and that something well below that is most likely.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
oh agreed
I think a .300 wOBA is absolutely the best we can possibly expect, barring Milesian luck. That probably wouldn’t be too bad if his defense is up to 2009/2008 standards though. He wasn’t far off an average player in Philly.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
he needs to never play against RHP IMO. That can’t be stressed enough. Even though for his career he’s only got a mild platoon split, I think he just can’t hit a right-handed breaking pitch anymore.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
40 games remain
he could repeat what he did during the first half of 2009 wOBA around .329 with above average defense. Then again he could repeat last Aug/Sep and have a wOBA around .265
play the percentages.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
This isn't Strat-o-matic, though
Just because we can’t know to any degree of staistical certainty that:
- the pitchers were changing the way they were pitching because of (an irrational)* fear that every groundball to 3B would turn into a one- or two-base error
- Lopez’s bad defense had gotten into his head and affected his ability to hit as well as, say, Pedro Feliz
- the clubhouse was getting restless because of the inability to put a ‘true’ 3B out there everyday
- the losses in games where 3B errors were (perhaps unfairly blamed as) the cause of said losses were demoralinzing the whole team
doesn’t mean that those weren’t factors worth considering in acquiring Pete Happy for a fungible 25-year old A-ball reliever.
Ballplayers aren’t sabremetricians, and perception is important.
I’m as sabremetric-friendly as anyone here, but I think that the derision of the Feliz trade has been overboard.
- - I can’t get out of my head the quote from 3B-soon-to-be 1B Pedro Guerrero when asked what he was thinking in the field, “God, please don’t let them hit it to me,” and then when asked what else he thought, “God, please don’t let them ht it to Sax.” I may be misremembering the exact Q-and-A order, but this was the gist of it.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Aug 23, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm fine with all that
if that is the (plausible) thought process, then, why not get Brandon Inge, who’s a better player (and I’m no Inge fan, but that is at least a defensible move IMO)? Or just promote Tyler Greene (or even Matt Carpenter) and let them have a hack at 3B?
If the only factors in FAVOUR of the trade are very intangible, psychological advantages for other players which, as you say, we can’t know with statistical certainty, then at the very least we can not make our team WORSE by adding such an awful hitter. I’m fine with “intangibles” being deal-breakers, but acquiring Feliz and playing him every day over either Lopez or Schumaker makes our offense so much worse I just don’t see how his defense can in any way make up for that.
The process is fine. The valuation of Feliz as anything other than a worthless player at this point is not. And that’s where my opinion, and that of the FO, apparently differ, especially if Feliz is going to start any games when a right-hander is on the mound (which I think we have reason to suspect is going to happen regularly in future).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a six-month acquisition. . .
Is Brandon Inge really a better bet to be a better player over the course of the next 5-6 weeks than Pedro Feliz is? I can make at least two arguments that the converse is true:
- At the time of the trade, Inge had hit 216/255/333 since coming off the DL (admittedly, he has heated up since then), an almost-dead ringer for Feliz’s up-to-then season of 221/243/311;
- Although this would have been more true in the pre-free agency, pre-interleague play era, as an NL Central player and a career NL-only player, Feliz is more familiar with NL parks and NL pitchers than Brandon Inge, a career AL-only player;
Add to that the fact that Inge hadn’t even been put on waivers yet by the Tigers when the Cards acquired Feliz, and that he was no guarantee to even clear them, and that the Cards had just lost their 4th straight and fallen 4.5 GB in the Central, and a perceived need for urgency, and you have a recipe to make the deal.
For that matter, why is it an either-or choice. Mo could still deal a David Carpenter like project for Inge if he so desires.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Aug 23, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
At the time of the trade, Inge had hit 216/255/333 since coming off the DL (admittedly, he has heated up since then), an almost-dead ringer for Feliz’s up-to-then season of 221/243/311;
Meaningless sample size.
Although this would have been more true in the pre-free agency, pre-interleague play era, as an NL Central player and a career NL-only player, Feliz is more familiar with NL parks and NL pitchers than Brandon Inge, a career AL-only player;
Equally, NL pitchers are more familiar with Feliz’s swing and weaknesses, and Inge has spent most of his career in a better league. I don’t think this makes any difference whatsoever, even arguably.
Like I said, I’m no Inge fan, but his glove is probably even better than Feliz’s, and, despite being horribly injury prone, he has at least hit adequately this year. Feliz has been beyond bad. I suspect Inge would cost more in prospects or money, though, which is why we didn’t do it.
Still, though – we didn’t want to give up any money or prospects. Fine. But that means we can’t add anyone who will improve the team. So stand pat, promote Greene and/or Gotay. Don’t add an albatross like Feliz.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 24, 2010 6:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course, none of this explains. . .
why Ruben Gotay has not been given a chance.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Aug 23, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
because Gotay sucks
he is a career AAA player and at most a utility middle infielder. Think Thurston without the baserunning skills.
thurston had baserunning skills?
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Everybody has one thing they do better than anyone else.
Thurston’s special skill was the ability to look like a lost puppy on the bases.
Thurston sucked at baserunning heh
Gotay is not necessarily that bad
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
joking on the baserunning thing
Gotay can't hit left-handed pitching
I think any prospective 3B acquisition is probably going to be at third vs LHP with Floppy covering for Skip at 2B. Being able to hit LHP is a necessity (not that Feliz can, really, but he’s probably as good as or better than Gotay at it, and he’s certainly a better fielder).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 24, 2010 6:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Feliz in his best years was a .270/.300/.440 guy
So yeah, if he could do that he’d be great.
by vivaelpujols on Aug 23, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I've noticed that ghosts are particularly impressed by statistics.
May all the cardinals be temporarily possessed by good hitting and fielding ghosts.
"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright
I wish i could give this a rec
But I’m on my phone so you just get a +1, i hope it will suffice.
by lopey986 on Aug 23, 2010 10:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
we all comment on small sample sizes
and how unrepresentative they are. Well, let’s all hope that Feliz for the rest of the season has an above average offensive SSS and ends up hitting much above his career and season averages. Having sat through the last Jaime start at the ballpark (when Lopez made 2 errors and Jaime got the loss while giving up zero earned runs), I also very much like Feliz’ defense.
yep. i was at that game too and it was tough to sit through.
So I was happy to see him make a couple nice plays yesterday.
by mick311 on Aug 23, 2010 11:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I cheer for Miles to suceed every time he comes to the plate
and every time a ball is hit into his direction. I certianly don’t rout for him to fail so he get’s less playing time.
What I don’t like is having a guy like Tyler Greene behind Aaron Miles. It just doesn’t make sense.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I expect
that Tyler needs a little playing time in AAA to get his swing back. He’ll be up once rosters expand and hopefully we won’t then see Miles for the remainder of the year.
hope so
But Mo hasn’t shown the desire to cut anyone. Greene was sent down instead of Miles. (well… ended up being DL’d) So there is evidence that the team prefers Miles on the Roster. (even though Tony played Greene more than miles when they were both healthy on the Major league club). I wouldn’t expect to see greene until at least Sep. 1st.
But when he does come back that could mean even less playing times for miles, Because we’ll have three back up MIs in Miles, Greene, and Lopez.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Disconnect.
I don’t understand why we keep players on the roster that TLR plays less than other players when those other players are on the roster. If TLR is playing Greene because Greene is better, then why don’t we just keep Greene on the roster? If TLR is playing Craig because Craig is better, then why don’t we just keep Craig on the roster? And the whole “regular PAs” argument does not really fly because neither has anything left to prove at AAA and, with the way TLR uses his bench, regular PAs can be had.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i dunno
I’ve chalked it up to depth, releasing a guy vs optioning a guy. That works in the Miles vs Greene or McDougal vs Salas. But not in the Stavinoha vs Craig. We also keep lumping all these moves together. Maybe looking at each move individually would help? The Stav Vs Craig could be made that they wanted him to get Regular ABs because they plan to trade Ludwick or they wanted him to work on something specific (like lunging at the ball…)
But other than that, i dunno. It makes no sense for TLR to want a guy on his roster more than another who he plays more.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I think that's the case, yeah.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
if he wasn't
he most certainly is now.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
hell no, feliz sucks, floppy sucks, mini me suck, fat mini me suck, bubbles sucks, soup sucks, mcdooger sucks, pork chop sucks
and Frankly really, really, really, really f’ing sucks
and i hope they all fail epically & are cut & never put on the BOB’s again
but i also hope the Cards win every game, and if they can’t then i hope at least they win every series & make the playoffs & win the world series. and if anyone can’t understand why i don’t want players who suck on my favorite team to do well, then i can’t help you. because it only hurts everyone if they are good for a little while, because when they get back to their normal suck, the team will keep them around a lot longer hoping & praying they really are good instead of realizing they actually suck.
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
by gdm426 on Aug 23, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i don't think, i know, it's a fact jack
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
Denny's
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
OOTP
I don’t want to beat a dead horse (last time I mention this until I get the website up and running, prolly this middle of this week) but I highly recommend OOTP to everyone here. If you’re like me and always thought being a GM of a baseball would be awesome, this game is for you. It is very fun and addicting and also very realistic. I would check out the demo if you haven’t. I mentioned to DanUp if the cost of the game is a concern, it is possible to share a copy of the game between two people. Each purchase comes with two licenses so members could pool money together and play that way. I absolutely love OOTP and I really think everyone here would as well. If you are interested please let me know over at the FanPost, email or teh twitterz.
....my quick smells like french toast...
Twitter: @mstreeter06
no off day this week.
the cardinals should and very easily could go 5-2 simply because we’re missing strasburg. too bad we’re giving two games away….
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 10:59 AM EDT reply actions
how many games will the Cards score more than two
the offense will determine the season, not Lohse’s eight starts.
it'd be inexcusable for that number to not be seven.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
would have thought the last homestand
could have been 6 or 7 out of eight, not four out of eight. And the high scoring games were against SF, the better pitching team.
this team doesn't make any sense.
hell, they’ll probably get shut down tonight by the 1-10 dude whom i’ve never heard of.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm gonna ignore that and continue to go positive
My 12 game win streak prediction is off to a nice start, so I’m gonna stick to it.
by mick311 on Aug 23, 2010 11:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you and my friend could be buddies.
the joke of a 12 game winning streak will only grow if we win tonight. having actual pitchers throw the rest of the week make me pretty confident.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
We are 7-1 combined vs Pitt and Washington
So that’s encouraging.
by lopey986 on Aug 23, 2010 11:25 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Lohse isnt going to cost us 8 games anyway.
If he continues to pitch poorly, and doesn’t show any progress in his next couple starts against PIT and WAS, I doubt they will keep putting him out there. Now that would mean Suppan instead of Lohse since we don’t have any off days but Suppan has at least shown the ability to keep us in probably half the games he starts and still has the potential to pitch pretty well against a bad team.
by mick311 on Aug 23, 2010 11:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i still think hawksworth is better than both of them
and would rather have him taking the 8 starts than anyone else.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no complaints about Hawks. he was coming along nicely.
You fit into me
like a hook into an eye
a fish hook
an open eye
So, fill me in here
Do you like the way he’s pitching? do you like him ‘cuase of the mix of pitches he has? His batting average against and WHIP don’t excite me, though I had high hopes for him this year. What with the hawk signal and all.
He's got a good fastball IMO
which is the first thing I look for in a major leaguer. It’s just his secondary arsenal is really mediocre, and his control probably isn’t quite good enough to get by with such poor out-pitches. His change is OK but that breaking ball thing (whatever it’s supposed to be) really isn’t going to fool any major league hitters.
Despite so-so results so far, I still think he’s got a reasonable future in a bullpen, as a middle reliever with perhaps some upside. I suppose as Wonderbrad Mk2 he’s OK as a 6th or 7th starter in a pinch.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm, yeah, I've looked for a killer offspeed pitch too
and haven’t seen it from him. I certainly like the fastball.
I thought as a fifth starter he did alright keeping us in some games.
the control seemed a bit of a problem at times.
You fit into me
like a hook into an eye
a fish hook
an open eye
n/s
in all honesty, i’ve got no statistics to back my statement up. i just remember him at least keeping us in games better than say suppan or lohse. suppan and lohse create the dreaded “wellemeyer effect” in which i have no hope going into the game. with hawksworth, i’d at least go into the game knowing we had a fighting chance.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Suppan v Hawk starts
both pitchers were lasting close to five and a third innings in their starts. Suppan gave up an average of 2.5 runs while Hawk was giving up 3.3 runs.
fair enough.
i also seems to remember the offense giving suppan little run support, so that could be what i’m remembering as well.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
well i hope Lohse can use this game against PIT to regain some confidence
And get back on track. All we need him to be at this point is a respectable 5th starter.
by mick311 on Aug 23, 2010 11:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I think it would give the team a lift if he were to pitch well tonight.
Cards would have a solid rotation. And maybe they would feel less pressure on offense. I don’t know. I keep hoping.
"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright
Confidence may be all that Lohse needs
He was pitching poorly for so long, then had to have surgery and rehab with it all on his mind. If he’s physically healthy he should work out of it.
by LexTalionis on Aug 23, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
gotta start winning a bunch of games
any way they can. might as well take advantage of playing these subpar teams for now.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 11:37 AM EDT reply actions
we are going to have to do what we did last year
and really dominate the supbar NL central teams the rest of the way if we want to make the playoffs. The Reds have an equally soft schedule the rest of the way and have proven they can take care of business against the teams they should beat. I wish we had more than 3 games left against them but we don’t and I know we are only 3.5 games back but like I said I expect them to beat up on those teams too.
If we can find a way to make the playoffs I really like our chances vs. any of the other NL teams with our rotation. But we are going to have to really take advantage of the schedule and dominate these teams like we should.
by mick311 on Aug 23, 2010 11:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's a 15.7 UZR/150, I think...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Sure am glad that guy's not on the Cards.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i'd much rather have randy winn than that guy.
/sarcasm
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
by zoomzoomj88 on Aug 23, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Jon Jay since the trade .322 .365 .407
Ryan Ludwick since the trade .237 .318 .408
Jake Westbrook since the trade: 25 IP 3.60 ERA 3.16 FIP
The team has been better off so far…
Not afraid to nitpick
Westbrook has been a very pleasant surprise
and JJ too
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I gotta hand it to Jay
He has outlasted the spotlight and been quietly good. I have watched a few games thinking he went hitless only to see he was 2-4 in the boxscore. His arm from the outfield makes me want to puke, but his bat and range have been great.
nah
he’s got a good arm
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe i just haven't seen it
I have yet to see him clear the pitchers mound from anywhere in centerfield. It’s hard to tell if it’s his release point (throwing it into the ground) or just a poor arm. They do seem to be on line most times.
I was at one of the Cards/Mets games at Citi Field 4 weeks ago.
Jay made 3 running Colby-esque catches to deep center, and flat out gunned down a runner at home. His defense was the only highlight of the game. RA Dickey had our hitters fooled most of the game.
he's thrown a guy out at home plate at least once
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I've witnessed it twice.
Once, in the rain delay game against Cincy at Busch III. It was the game that Jay got his first hit. He started in RF and gunned a Red down at home. The second time was the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend—the Pujols 3-HR game—when Jay started in CF and gunned a Cub down at home.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah
dude probably has the best arm from the outfield now that luddy is gone
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I really, really like Jay's defense
I think he’s probably a better CF than Colby to be honest. He’s an elite glove, in my view, and has a perfectly good arm.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 24, 2010 6:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Where can you pull #'s from a certain date forward like that?
“Last week, since the trade, I came up with this:
I built a spreadsheet, and copy and pasted the game logs into it, and I have RFL!! @ .259/.397/.466, and JJ @ .289/.356/.378. That’s .862 to .733 OPS. "
(I pulled this from a post of mine last week.)
Obviously we are dealing with small samples here.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Dude.....
It’s pretty easy b/c he was traded at the deadline.
Go to ESPN. Go to Luddy’s page. Go to game logs. And look at his August.
You posted that I was wrong last week as well, and I wasn’t.
And well,
Playing with this new found trick on B-R, and not relying on my drunk built spreadsheet; through the time we were discussing (8/1 -8/18) Luddy was out OPS’ing jay by more than a full point. But that didn’t jive with the hyperbole you were spewing, so I assume that’s why you didn’t respond, but bring it up now that the numbers have changed.
Numbers are here and here.
Fun with small samples. I’ll still take Ludwick going forward over Jay.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Sure......he hits gaps pretty well,
I’d guess his doubles will go up, and dingers will drop, but he seems to have a pretty good start there.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I’ll still take Ludwick going forward over Jay.
I’d take that bet. Luddy may out perform him, but it won’t be by enough to make up for the difference in defense, and what Westbrook provides.
Also, I didn’t respond on the 18th b/c I’m not on the board all day and night, every day and night. Seemed kind of silly to respond to it the next day.
Either way, the numbers today would be more reflective of how the trade is going anyways. And tomorrow even moreso. And so on and so forth.
I thought we were discussing Luddy vs. Jay, not Luddy vs. Jay + Westy.
but it won’t be by enough to make up for the difference in defense, and what Westbrook provides.
Ya, I don’t see Luddy’s value being greater than both of them going forward, but that’s not the point. Ludwick is a + defender in right, as is Jay. Jay is going to crash back to earth, and we all know it. Luddy is a proven .800 – .900 OPS guy, and Jay’s true talent probably puts him in the .750 to .800 category. He is not that much better of a defender than Ludwick to make up for .100 points of OPS.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
In overall talent, I agree with you.
But Mozeliak was surely not looking through that lens of reference when he made this trade. I am fairly sure that is driven by the desperate need for a SP and $$$$. If Ludwick is going to make roughly 7-8 million in arbitration, and Jay is making basically nothing, then going forward, (Fangraphs WAR is being used) if Jay is worth 2-3 WAR (He is at 1.9 WAR for the season), and Ludwick is worth 3.5 WAR, then you have to go with Jay seeing as the Pujols contract is looming as well as numerous other factors (Craig’s potential can’t be discarded as well).
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I don't disagee.....
I’m glad Westy’s on the team, and think he was a valuable part that needed to be added. I’m just not happy with the deal that made it so.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Yes......and it all started with your boat.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
LOL.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Glad you know what Jay's "true talent" is.....
The kid is young, and had a very good bat in college. I’m not ready to say where his ceiling is, as a hitter.
I just don’t see the difference being that great. Nothing but time will tell. There would not be a .100 difference of OPS either. Even if you say .750 is Jay’s floor, Luddy has OPS’d over .850 once in his career. He is also 32, and while that may not make him Father Time, it certainly doesn’t put him in his prime either.
who would say jay's floor is .750?
that’s probably his ceiling
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
I would be absolutely thrilled if he OPS'd at about .800.
Ludwick’s OPS has fallen to .803 for 2010…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
if Jay puts up a .803 OPS next year
I would shake Mo’s hand and take back every bad thing I ever said about him because that ludwick-westbrook deal was awesome.
Though I would be less shocked to see a platoon of Jay-Craig put up close to .800 OPS next year.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Right...I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.
He has a career .799 Minor league OPS……What he is doing now is not what we can expect going forward.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
maybe......but we can only go off of what he has done.
Maybe he does turn into a monster and doesn’t crash back to earth. I’m not willing to say he’s a true talent .900 plus OPS major leaguer at this point.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I like to mix the numbers and projections in with my internal scout...
does the guy have a good swing? yes. does he have speed and defense? yes. can he hit the ball and create line drives, and does he have some muscle mass? yes. does this mean that he will continue with his big league success? no, but it certainly can make one think that he could.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but the trade looks like this....
Is Jay capable of playing every day at the Major League level? Sure. Is he a good fit for the #2 hole in our lineup? Yes he is. Will we have him for 5 cost-controlled years? yes. Can we move him to cf? Not without dumping Rasmus. Can we move him to lf? Not without benching our $17 million stud hitter.
OK, now how many starting pitchers did we have before the Westbrook trade? 3? 4 if you stretch your definition.
I think it was a no-brainer trade and Westbrook has been great since we got him.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
people who are big fans of Craig tend to hate on Jay
that should stir things up. but yeah, I guess if you just look at his minor league performance you might not be too thrilled with the guy, but it still should show a lot of potential
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Craig NEEDS to be playing second base.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, where are the OFers playing?
Rasmus (OF)
Jay (OF)
Boog (SS)
Pujols (1B)
Holliday (OF)
Craig (OF)
Freese (3B)
Molina ©
I take it we won’t have 4 OFers, so, is Craig playing 2B in this lineup?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
if we bat albert 4th
maybe we can finally get boog that protection he needs
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Colby for 3-hole. Walkapotamoose will get a billion pitches to crush.
Translates to roughly 400 million homers.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
What about Jay + Craig, though?
I think when you consider Ludwick’s injury history, there’s probably a fair argument that a well-worked Jay/Craig platoon will be similarly valuable to Ludwick next year, and we don’t have to pay 8 or 9m for it.
Throw in a couple of months of Westbrook and the possibility we can maybe extend him relatively inexpensively if he likes it here, I think there’s a fair argument for the trade. Especially if the Indians were asking for a prospect we weren’t comfortable with giving up (didn’t they get a decent B-level pitching prospect from the Padres? Perhaps they wanted, I dunno, Lynn, and we’re factoring him in as a possible 5th starter going forward?).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 24, 2010 6:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Baseball reference game logs
Click one day, click the other and it does the rest for you.
Not afraid to nitpick
Thanks.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Baseball Musings has a Day by Day Database
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Now let's just cross our fingers that that continues
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
if jay had to play in petco his #'s wouldn't be good either
i’m not sayin, i’m just sayin
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
I thought
Petco suppressed power numbers but played well for slap / gap hitters.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
jay's hits
would fall in at any stadium. Look at his Busch Stadium hit chart on this link. down the line and in front of the center fielder.
Motte is throwing another side session today
first one went well, if this one is same he could be back in the bullpen by later this week or this weekend.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 11:48 AM EDT reply actions
'later this week or this weekend'
Usually means 2-3 more weeks. But hey, at least its not ‘progressing nicely’
by mick311 on Aug 23, 2010 11:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the main encouraging thing is that he already completed one session and he's cleared for the second one
but we shall see, should injuries are of great concern
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
i really, really, really miss sauce.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I think most of us do
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
that'd be cool
KMac’s been really good so far, and I think, even watching him, he GENUINELY looks an improved pitcher this year rather than the usual SSS relief mirage, but Motte’s pretty important for our pen, I think.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, his performance this year has been pretty remarkable I think
don’t want to overexpose the K-Mac though.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
What's really up with Colby?
Do we have any idea on a return? Or are we gonna do the CF = Jay, RF = Craig thing for a while?
seems like this calf injury keeps coming up
or some other nagging injury. hopefully the jd drew comparisons won’t be apt
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
the last update i saw was an article on the team page
Saying the good news was that Colby did not think he needed to go on the DL but he would be out until later this week.
by mick311 on Aug 23, 2010 12:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
On Peter Happy and Improvement
You know, I bet Feliz will start playing better. Dave Duncan noticed the other day that he was tipping his pitches.
Wait, he’s not a pitcher? Oh, yeah. Anyway, the thing about Feliz is that I actually could see him improving later this season. His BABIP has been really low, presumably because his LD rate has slashed itself nearly in half and he’s hitting 4% more infield fly balls. So yeah he certainly could start sticking it better but frankly that’s still not good. If he starts hitting like he did last year, say, he’ll wind up with a wOBA of roughly ~.300… which is still pathetic!
Anyway, we’ll see. I hope he does play well because the Cardinals need “all hands on deck” at this point. But this was still a silly move.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 12:22 PM EDT reply actions
.300 wOBA is OK for an excellent defensive 3B
if indeed that’s what he is anymore. If he wOBAs .300 and plays good D the rest of the year we’re probably better off with him at 3B vs LHP, than the alternative (Skip at 2B or Greene at 2B/3B).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I should just say
I’m not very hopeful that he’ll wOBA even .300 the rest of the way.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 23, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
somehow, some way...
the pirates manage to make money despite their losing.
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
Texas Ranagers
managed to go bankrupt despite their losing.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Did the Rangers go bankrupt, or, was it the entity that owned them?
I thought Hicks was in real trouble and the Stars were also affected by it? I haven’t paid that much attention to the situation, so I’m genuinely asking.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
the biz of baseball.com is all over this story, everyone who's interested in this should check them out
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
Yesterday's game was the most fun I've had at the ballpark, maybe ever
Weather was really nice(i was in the casino porch) and the cardinals came to play…I started telling my dad in the 4th that Garcia was gonna pitch a shutout…his pitch count was just so low and he was being super efficient….he got into an amazing groove in the middle innings and you could just see his confidence growing…he was ready to throw his next pitch almost as soon as the last ball hit the mit….the batter’s were taking their sweet time between pitches trying to throw him off; you could tell they knew he was gonna be really tough to get anything off of…i was really hoping he’d pitch to the minimum, but when shierholtz came in to PH, i was worried(he had been crushing the ball in BP)…still, a great performance all around
I did not realize Rasmus had been that poor since the break…that GS he hit against the reds is all i really remember of him since the break, so i guess i just figured he was still producing at a high level…these injury spells are starting to weigh heavily on me though
Oh, and can Tony hit Jay leadoff already!!!! seriously, i know he’s a rookie, but i think he is clearly best suited for that role on this team based on current production level…c’mon tony, for once, get over your stupid, dated pre-conceived notions and
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
It was a perfect baseball day
I kept checking the pitch count on the facade thinking it had to be wrong. Jaime got a little help from the Giants swinging at his pitches, but he definitely took advantage of every opportunitythey gave him.
How good is Jay's defense?
Specifically, in CF? And I don’t want to be quoted some defensive metric, those things are pretty worthless anyways, ESPECIALLY with Jay’s limited time in CF this year.
But from what you’ve seen, would he be considered a “good” defensive CF if he played there everyday?
He seems to get to everything ok
He takes some funny routes to balls though. He seems to take a step in deep balls that puts him out of position. His arm is just shit, Juan Pierreish on the chances i’ve seen. Maybe it’s mechanical though.
its not that bad...its not great
but i would take jay’s arm over pierre’s anyday
speaking of pierre, is he still in the majors?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
I've seen him fail to clear the mound from short center to the plate
At least three or four times, like i said it could be a mechanics problem and not his true ability.
Yeah he could stick there no problem
He can’t throw very well but that’s just going to happen sometimes.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
he's at the least average in center
and has a good arm imo
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully it won't come to this.....
But IF Raz heads down the JD Drew highway, and IF Jay proves he can keep hitting (not at this rate, but at a good rate none the less)…..
Does Jay being able to play CF open up the possibility of trading Raz? Not saying it’ll happen, and it shoudn’t happen until after next season even if it were to, but it’s something to keep in mind. Remember what we received for Drew. I’d think Raz would be worth at least as much, probably more. If management feels his health or whatever might be a problem going forward, I’d have no problems sticking Jay in CF, and moving Raz for a 3B/RF/SP or whatever, as long as it was on the level of the Drew trade.
Just a thought. Heck, Jay may go the way of Bo Hart next year and it’ll be a non-issue. Or Colby could put the injuries behind him.
I've never heard anything bad about his defense.
He’s played CF throughout his minor league career. Most scouting reports seemed to suggest he’d be a real asset as an outfield glove in CF or RF but more of a middle-infield-quality bat. Plus speed, good routes to the ball, good arm.
I’d be very surprised if he’s not above-average, even in CF.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 24, 2010 6:25 AM EDT up reply actions
man
you guys don’t even know about these breakfast tacos
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
you're having freaking breakfast tacos at 12:30?
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i want Wendy's to bring back their Monterey Ranch Chicken Sandwich
like you all don’t even know
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
probably not
they’re terrified of releasing people
someone out there still has an option left, i’m sure. kmac? boggs?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Garcia does
seriously though, nine games till roster expands so it’s either Boggs, DL Reyes or wait till 9/1.
i bet the team waits another week on him no matter what.
then they don’t even have to make a move.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
that's exactly what i just said....
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
fair enough.
i fully expect them to wait until september 1st. on that date, motte is activated, stavinoha, greene, salas, maclane, mather, walters, and pagnozzi are brought up.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
i would like them to call up samuel and let him do some mop up duty.
it would be fun to watch the batters standing two feet out of the batters box.
fair enough.
but i still expect motte to be activated on sept 1st, as to not require a further roster move.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
How about this move
activate Motte and option Garcia after Jaime’s 8/27 start, then recall Garcia once rosters expand for his scheduled start on Sept 1. I think it’s legal, but if not and they have to wait 10 days, the Cards could use the move to skip Garcia once in the rotation.
Carp would luggage SOMEone to get Jaime back on the play-off roster...
just hope its not YOU!
:=8.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
When was the last time...
this team cut ties with a bad player? You have to go back to Kahlil Greene… Or maybe Thursty. I bet they DL Reyes or go with 13 pitchers.
Fire La Russa!
or wait until september 1st...
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Even more likely...
I predict 18 pitchers but no one that will take at bats from Miles.
Fire La Russa!
why?
where would he go?
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
doesn’t get any more grit than Rex
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting stat i saw
Ichiro is on pace for 200 hits but less than 80 runs….thats just absolutely ridiculous….the mariners suck
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
Yeah they're brutal offensively
Ichiro’s OBP is an eminently respectable .361 and yet he hits in front of luminaries such as Gutierrez and Kotchman and Figgins and so on…
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 23, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
If Ichiro gets lots of hits and walks very little...
wouldn’t he be a great #3 hitter? I suppose it matters less in the AL, but all those hits are going to waste.
Fire La Russa!
sure would be nice to have Ichrio in RF
batting second, in front of Pujols.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
OH YOU'VE DONE IT NOW
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
or the giants
they seem to be stock piling waiver wire outfielders
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
guh
i need to go shopping today and get a haircut
i would like to sit around and be lazy the last day i can before school start, but i have no choice =(
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
I am down to a can of soup and a can of mandarin oranges for good
I would like to sit around and be lazy the last few days before school starts, but I might starve if I do. Dammit. Hey there Wal mart..we meet again..
as Long as...
its big enough to makea Moe haircut – udderwise you’ll get a reverse tonsure, and that ain’t nertlerb…
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I thought you were
gonna suggest he make some beef stew.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Someone posted an article yesterday
That said Mo went to the Starting Pitchers and asked if they wanted 4/5 runs a game in support or good defense and because there was no player who offered both at third and they all said defense….
So does that mean it was between Feliz and Encarnacion? He is the only thirdbaseman I can think of that was available and offered an upgrade offensively.
I like that we actually have a thirdbaseman now who can play good defense but I would much rather have had Edwin, even with his crappy attitude and below average glove. I think offense is a bigger need, assuming cost was the same on both players.
by mick311 on Aug 23, 2010 2:30 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
yeah
when I heard this about Moz asking the pitching staff and them wanting more defense, it made the trade ok with me
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I read this too
But I dunno if I buy it. I mean, when has this organization EVER been completely forthcoming with the rationale behind ANY of the (questionable) moves?
After a good bit of criticism and/or head-scratching, Mo tells us that the whole reason Washed Up Player X ended up on our roster this time is because he polled the starting pitchers and they all voted the same way.
So now we’re to believe that Mo is all of the sudden just going to share with us the ins-and-outs of the decision-making process? Maybe I’m just blanking on good examples, but I just don’t see this as consistent with their previous behavior.
they had to have some excuse for signing Feliz
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
but that's what I mean...
I view it as an excuse because literally EVERYONE in the baseball world essentially poked fun at this move.
And let me be clear: I’m FINE with an “excuse” and in no way do I expect Mo et al. to let the fans into the inner workings of the decision-making process. And there are competitive reasons not to do so.
It’s fine as an excuse; I just hope people are smart enough to know BS when they hear it.
I think there is some modicum of truth to it though
they wanted better defense at third base at a very low cost
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
What would any pitcher say. Hmm.. good defense or good offense- especially our pitchers
they know that they should be able to hold teams to low scores…if only damned Lopez doesn’t get a ground ball to him. Bad Defense (even if no errors) hurts their stats worse than no offense (that hurts one stat -wins).
I don't think the question was posed by Mozeliak.
The question was posed by the reporter to the pitchers. I can’t fathom Mozeliak asking the pitchers that question.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
i just wish he would have waited a week
and gotten inge
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
hernandez has a high xFIP.
the end.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
A wise man once said
It’s good for absolutely nothing.
>While Albert Pujols batting, This Signature picked off second. Three out.
Eeeshh
No. It just means that Livan has gotten very very fortunate and his results have been so good that those results have been valuable. WAR is, and viva or someone who really knows these things, for the most part a reflective stat and not a predictive one and as such treats the luckiest and unluckiest SOBs the exact same way. It’s not a measure of what reasonably should have happened but what did. (RIGHT???)
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 24, 2010 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions
it's predictive up to a point
just like more or less any stat. In this case, though, we can see that Livan, who has a career HR/FB rate of about 10% (which, coincidentally, is about average, and about the rate that most pitchers pretty much regress to) has only seen 4.8% of his flyballs go for HR this year. So, essentially, he’s given up about half as many homeruns as you’d have expected, given his batted ball profile. Whilst he might be slightly responsible for that by a change in skill level, it’s likely to be overwhelmingly due to luck.
As FIP is essentially calculated from HR, K and BB, therefore his FIP’s been a bit lucky.
His xFIP, which assumes a league average HR/FB rate, is 4.72. So we can probably say he’s just got a bit lucky, and isn’t a substantially different pitcher this year to the below-average one he’s been the last few seasons.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 24, 2010 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions
that's really, really neat.
and as accounting major, i should be having an orgasm over that. but i don’t have the time and motivation to read all that right now. maybe later this week.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
THROW SOME D'S ON THAT BITCH
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Aug 23, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
either nobody gets these jokes
or they are not nearly as funny as i seem to think
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
those are not mutually exclusive scenarios.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 24, 2010 6:41 AM EDT up reply actions
ok, now I want to see the Cardinals.
The theory about bad teams make money when good teams win makes sense from a financial perspective. The larger cities with good teams (Yankees) have more money to spend and since so much revenue is shared then the clubs that don’t spend money still make a lot.
It was especially interesting that the Marlins make more money when they have a bad team than when they have a good team!!!
I wonder about the Cardinals. They may be getting caught in the middle. They could possible make more money with a bad team than a good team. But DeWitt would get run out of town on a rail.
"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright
Also at the top of that link
is pictures of the Bailer Guy’s girlfriend in very little clothing. All I have to say is WOW.
Official sponsor of Fat Jesus.
And Felix as well?
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Aug 23, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, I know I was mouthing off earlier about giving the manager the benefit of the doubt...
Lopez at SS??
"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright
Do you think Tony polled the starting pitchers and asked them what they thought of this lineup?
"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright
by spfldbird on Aug 23, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Feliz in the lineup
/vomits out my kidney
by vivaelpujols on Aug 23, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
What a dumb lineup...
Craig 8th? Lopez at SS?
If Lopez was so bad at third that we simply HAD to acquire the worst regular in baseball, why would you move him to a position that’s even more demanding?
Fire La Russa!
all they had to do to make this a good lineup was to switch craig and lopez and put boog in at short.
no one would be complaining at all. why is that so hard? and boog has been hitting really well lately. .333 /.386/.400 over the last 28 days, only 6 SO in 84 PAs. i think he’s getting back on track. so why are we sacrificing his defense today for a guy who’s trending in the wrong direction?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
on the other hand, i just thought of something
it IS the pirates. and we DO have a long stretch of games with no off day. so i guess everyone needs a break. if boog doesn’t play SS, who does? w/o greene up right now, floppy is our next best option, so i guess it makes sense for him to get some innings in there in case bood needs a rest.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I think this is typical TLR maximizing the off-day by giving a regular the day off before or after it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
miles
could start at SS. The Pirates would hit .500 on balls in play because his little legs wouldn’t get him near any of the three hoppers.
Miles is fine at SS
as long as we have the pitcher act as a cut-off man. Oh and as long as we have Boog standing right next to him and sacrifice an outfielder.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 23, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
tlr would say that he probably needs a day off
this has the feeling of a 9-3 loss tonight.
first, you have lohse going out there. second, ross ohlendorf – a 1-10 record with an ERA just under 4. third, it’s the pirates. i can only hope & pray the giants thrash the reds tonight.
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
needs a breather?
banged up? Slept late.
Just be glad we have Feliz and we are not seeing miles at SS.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
during the game yesterday
the scoreboard showed feliz’s season average at the start of the game. then after he got a hit on his first at bat, they changed it to show his average with the cardinals, which was .556 at the time (5 for 9). what in the world would have compelled them to do that?
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
To demonstrate to magical career rejuvinating power of playing in St. Louis.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
aint called baseball haven for nuthin'
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Maybe Miles can show Feliz...
…where they keep the magic grounball BABIP pixie dust. I’m pretty sure it occurs naturally in the sub-basement of Busch III.
Feliz's OPS as a Cardinal: 1.077
Pujols’s OPS as a Cardinal: 1.055
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
lock em up Mo!
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Oh For Gob's sake!
Don’t tempt the man!
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 23, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
just like tony to sit the hot bat!
I mean, he benched winn after his HR.
Selective cutoff point fun facts. Ryan has 10 games with at least 2 hits in his last 22 games.
For the month of Aug. Ryan is hitting .311/.364/.393/.757
Ryan has started the last 19 games the team has played.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
yeah i was thinking it had been quite awhile since we saw someone else play SS
look, lohse isn’t your typical “ground ball pitcher,” we are playing the pirates, and we have a long stretch of games coming up. the more i think about it, the more i see no problem with sitting boog tonight. this is a good night, and maybe the best night for awhile, to give him a day off.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
No Aaron Miles!
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Aug 23, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
floppy should never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever E V A R play SS
E
V
A
R
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
dude...
he’s not good enough to play third base and he’s #3 on the depth chart at second base… Where do you want him to play??
Fire La Russa!
no i dont, don't put words in my mouth
when he’s used properly off the bench & sometimes starting at 2nd he’s useful. he’s never useful at SS & only kind of useful at 3rd
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
i can remember you saying something like you hate him.
maybe it had to do with hating his level of commitment or something. like no effort or something.
ya i think he's a dbag, but he's usefull is used properly
too bad for us TLR can’t to that
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
problem is not having anyone else who can play SS on the 25-man right now. this is a roster construction problem, not a TLR problem.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I would argue that the roster construction is a collaboration between TLR and Mo.
I imagine that Mo probably has the final say, but I am quite confident that he consults TLR. It’s a good thing that we have three players who are primarily second basemen on the 25-man and a perfectly good SS/3B option down in AAA…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
correct me if i'm wrong, by wouldn't Green be a much better option as a backup SS
than all the crappy IF’s that on currently on the team? if he’s healthy, why isn’t he on the club? what am i missing?
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
I'm guessing they think he needs more time in the minors considering some of his throws and he always seemed slightly nervous
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
And his use of his agent to avoid a demotion
>While Albert Pujols batting, This Signature picked off second. Three out.
That has probably fucked him, and us, more than anything.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 23, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
When he called his agent to get him on the DL instead of Memphis.
That has probably buried him in Tony’s doghouse for a good long while.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Aug 23, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
wow, i never heard that, why did he do that?
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
if he's on the DL as a MLB player he gets more money than being on the DL as a MiLB player
and if he needed to go on the DL anyway, why not? but the problem was he didn’t say anything about being hurt (SHOCKER) until he was getting demoted
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
well that explains why he's not with the big boys
i’m actually surprised MO didn’t DFA or trade him if he pulled that
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
well....his AGENT pulled that.
could have been a coincidence anyway.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
It would behoove Mo to consult on roster construction..bad commander-in-chief who doesn't ask opinion of the generals and all.
either that or TLR and DUnc say…Mo, I want a scrappy gritmeister who will be so thankful that i played him for one inning or threw him an occasional start that he is pledges his life to me. So its really TLR/Dunc collecting souls and Mo goes and makes the deal.
You're a roster construction problem
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Milton Bradley is a roster construction problem.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You know who doesn't have roster construction problems?
The top 5 organizations in baseball.
>While Albert Pujols batting, This Signature picked off second. Three out.
Top 5 according to Fangraphs?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
dude, if Lopez took the wrong turn into an alley with gdm and zoomzoom he would be totally f'd
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I would put my money on Floppy.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
they could take him off guard I guess
but yeah, so would I
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Watch Lopez' forearms next time he's at bat.
Dude’s arms are covered in tatoos. And as we all know, tats = badass.
Ergo, Lopez destroys anyone, surprised or not. They should send he and Lugo into Afghanistan. Between the deathgaze and the armtats, the Taliban would just surrender.
how about add in Carp and Miles and we have a buddy army movie
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
they should be in the Expendibles sequel
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
I was gonna go with an Expendable joke,
but the comparison doesn’t really mesh.
Carpenter is pretty clearly Statham, but you’d need Pujols to be Stallone, and it’s really unclear how the Miles-Lopez-Lugo trio combines into Jet Li-Randy Cotoure-(Other guy who’s name I can’t remember right now).
Hence, I went with the backup, Saving Private Ryan joke.
i've been hearing from a lot of woen online that they love neck ink
for the life of me i can’t figure out why. just like the foot tattoo on a woman it just screams to me “no class” if a guy has neck ink
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
I call them
unemployment tats, but that’s just me.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Aug 23, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if that's the case i should be a walking talking tattoo
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
if that's the case i should be a walking talking tattoo
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
oh & woen? learn to type assclown
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
I read 'tats' wrong in that sentence.
The resulting advice was still applicable, but for entirely different reasons.
they could take him off guard...
and i’d still put my money of Floppy.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
maybe both of us could take him if zoomzoom distracts him & i had did a sneak attack
otherwise, ya i’d be toast
but i’m a lover, not a fighter. i stay clear of alleys
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
I can just picture you and zoomzoom hiding in one, waiting for Lopex
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
actually not really since I don't even know what you guys look like
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
i look like Big Mac's younger, fatter brother
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
i stay clear of alleys
That’s not the word on the street.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
so once again there's a virus on my desktop
this time my bro is telling me it came from Java & Firefox. apparently when FF updated itself & Java it contained this virus, and he’s having a hard time getting rid of it. i think he’s full of crap, i think it came from facebook. our mom recently joined & is on there all the time & she’s always clicking on stuff from people even though we have told her not to without checking with us. her & my bro use chrome & he doesn’t see how her clicking on every link she see’s on fb could have dl’d this virus.
now i’m a idiot when it comes to this stuff. all i know is he has about every free virus, maleware, whatever you call them on here & he can’t get rid of it. all i can tell it’s doing is it’s opening random windows & sites. whether you click on a link or not. so my question to you all is can an upgrade from Jave & FF contain a virus? wouldn’t they be safe? and if they weren’t, wouldn’t it be big news & wouldn’t everyone know not to upgrade Jave & FF till they fixed the problem?
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
My java and FF are up to date,
and neither of them contained viruses.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I've been getting tons of java update notifications
I wonder if this is really a virus slowing my computer down
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
in the past couple months there's been a few upgrades
and this didn’t start happening till friday, and i hadn’t dl’d the update in over a month. yet another reason why i dont think thats where it came from
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
ditto, i just don't have the knowledge to back it up
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
why?
Back in April, there was a serious problem identified with the Java toolkit plugin on mozilla- mozilla had to push an emergency update that disabled the plugin because it was insecure.
If he didn’t do the update to remove the plugin, he’s definitely vulnerable to web sites running malicious code, which can lead to virus and trojan horse infections etc.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
i did the update mid july, would that have been the fix?
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
probably
but you may have already been infected by then, and it just didn’t show up until now.
FWIW I got hit hard with this, and was running mcafee, so just having an AV installed doesn’t make you safe. I managed to fix it (I think) with avast, so you may try that- it’s free to d/l and try.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
i'll pass that along, not sure if he'll listen to me but i'll try
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
it was mozilla 3.5.8 that had the problem.
the current version on my computer is 3.6.8.
Go to tools → add-ons, “java quick starter” should be disabled.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
You know, there's free software that can protect you from that stuff
Hell, even my wife’s machine stays relatively clean with only a yearly checkup from me.
The odds are that no, there’s almost no way the upgrade caused it. Unless he downloaded it from his eastern European friend Joey.
he's got a bunch of free stuff on here, i don't know why they aren't working
he’s saying because i dont use FF on the laptop is why it doesn’t have this virus, but i’m still not buying it
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
a friend in college apparently had a problem with getting viruses(?) as a result of surfing for adult content
in one day he had to reformat his computer 2 times
Meanwhile, the Cardinals had the great silencer standing on the mound for the opener. His name is Carpenter, and, to quote James Brown, papa don't take no mess.
by FredbirdisaDork on Aug 23, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont do porn & i would be shocked if he went looking
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
if you knew him you wouldn't be
Meanwhile, the Cardinals had the great silencer standing on the mound for the opener. His name is Carpenter, and, to quote James Brown, papa don't take no mess.
by FredbirdisaDork on Aug 23, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I know it really means little
But the fact that the starting pitchers tonight are a combined 2-15, makes me giggle.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
ESPN.com "Dog Days of August" on St. Louis
Interesting tidbit from the piece:
Finally, in true Tony La Russa/Dave Duncan fashion, the defense has saved the team on plenty of occasions. A stat provided by Baseball Info Solutions has the Cardinals’ defense at 49 runs saved, trailing only the Braves and Padres in the NL.
Definitely worth a read.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
interesting
I’m intrigued by any stat that is measuring runs saved by a defense
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if it is on billjames.com with the subscription.
I think DanUp has the subscription. Others probably do, too. I bet they could tell us.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Wow. That's
really a nice, insightful story.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I'm confused
Hasn’t the play of aaron Miles cost us at least that many runs?
dude hasn't even really played that much
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
so i learned today that there is no minimum number of at-bats required for rookie of the year qualification
is jay in the mix now? i know, i’ve seen his BABIP. i’m just saying….362/.411/.523. that leads all MLB rookies in BA, OBP, and SLG. obviously he can’t keep it up, but he’s at least worth a mention.
jaime is killing the pitchers, too. leading in IP, Ks, first in ERA for NL starters.
pretty cool, actually.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
not enough AB's.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
did you read the subject line
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah.
but i’m still saying he hasn’t had enough AB’s to impress enough voters.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
ah
I dunno, by the end of the season things will be much different
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i think if they are going to give it to a hitter, starlin castro is near the top of the list
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I wouldn't be surprised to see Castro get it
they will want to throw the Cubs fans masses a bone. plus he plays SS so there’s that.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
if jaime doesn't get it can they give it to freese/jay
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
i have to think that jaime is near the top of the list at this point
especially with strausberg missing a lot of time. and i haven’t heard shit about heyward lately.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Heyward went apeshit yesterday
I think he was like 4-4 with 2 dingers
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
That's just a terrible spelling of Strasburg
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Fuck. Works every time.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Comparison
Heyward: 104 G / 450 PA / .265/.378/.452/.830/ .366 wOBA/14 HR/62 R/57 RBI
Jay: 65 G / 195 PA / .362/.411/.523/.934 / .399 wOBA/3 HR/32 R/19 RBI
Honestly, I don’t know how you even compare the two when voting. I just find the comparison interesting.
I think Garcia should be the frontrunner for ROY. He has been the National League’s best rookie.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I guess if you like rate stats you like Jay
if you like counting, Heyward
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 23, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
FWIW
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/cliff_corcoran/08/23/rookies.year/index.html?eref=sihp
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
It should be Heyward or Garcia
tbh I’d be fine with Heyward winning it. If he stays fit he probably tops 4 WAR this year. Jaime has a shot at that, too.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Aug 24, 2010 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions
chances dan issues a public apology upon coming on air tonight?
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 5:04 PM EDT reply actions
I doubt they would do it as play was about to begin.
If he did it during the pre-game, I think that would be best.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
that's what i meant.
i’ll be tuning into the pre-game tonight for, uh, the first time all year.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Let us know what insights you glean.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
"Baseball fans, from the bottom of my heart, I would like to apologize
for my broadcast partner."
by Andyfantastic on Aug 23, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
he even drove me to drink
Meanwhile, the Cardinals had the great silencer standing on the mound for the opener. His name is Carpenter, and, to quote James Brown, papa don't take no mess.
by FredbirdisaDork on Aug 23, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I bet his attorney tells him not to.
he refused a breath test and I thought he refused the blood test too.
Gritty Proven Veteran
by RosevilleRedbird on Aug 23, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't think you CAN refuse the blood test.
can you?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
If it's like MT, yes.
But it’s basically a guilty plea by default.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
oh yeah i remember now. you can refuse, but then they will just get a warrant (usually) and do it anyway
the hope is by then your BAC will have gone down below .08
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
AFAIK, the only time they will subpeonea a blood test
is in the case of an accident. But refusing, results in automatic license revocation, and basically a no contest plea to the DUI. I’ll have to check with my buddy.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
its different in every state
in AZ, refusal results in a suspension of your drivers license for one year. and then the DA will argue that you refused because you knew you were guilty. there are some circumstances where it is advisable to refuse b/c you might be able to get off on a technicality.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Sounds pretty close to how it works here.
I personally plan on using the “my girlfriend dumped me and I’m trying to kill myself” defense if it ever comes to that….Spend a night in the looney bin and let my buddy go to work against the DUI.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
did you all ever get rid of those commie speed trap camera's?
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
yes! they are out of service forever*
*and by forever i mean until the next democrat becomes governor
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
which judging by how things are going won't be anytime soon
no politics jerky jerk face!
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
my bad. i wasn't trying to talk about politics.
i meant it mostly as a joke. and also as a fact.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
i dont think anyone's going to question VEB's resident lawyer
and i was talking to myself not you
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
they should question me. i make stuff up all the time
willie mcgee’s twin covers for me.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
well they will now that you told everyone
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
How many multi-hit games...
does Feliz need to have to get a contract offer for 2011?
Fire La Russa!
four.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Jfaime is being interviewed.
Could a rookie pitcher be any more perfect.
"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright
fumble fingers. Jaime not Jfaime
"I'll be in the conversation at the end of the year." Adam Wainwright
Oh, I thought that was like RFL
"Now that's how you talk. You don't talk to the newspapers, you talk to the baseball." -- Shannon
WTF was with all the yelling in the background?
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
A pleasant 70 degrees here.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
actually it's a nice & comfy 77 degrees here & low humidity
it’s about damn time too, this summer has been hot & humid as balls
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
erroneous. is it 107? no? its not? oh, okay then you're wrong.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
i just looked up the weather in ballwin...its *86*. seriously?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Yeah, not hot. Not even humid today.
I just went for an hour long walk after work around LSL and I didn’t even break a sweat. Not. Hot.
i third the not hot, if we're talking about st louis anyway
today was much nice than the past few days. mid-80s and low humidity. it was beautiful today.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I might need a jacket on the way home from work.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i'm jealous.
follow me on twitter @nickg105, @Rams_Fan_Voice
by stlcardinalsfang on Aug 23, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I would say that it is hotter
than fuck in both of your locations…..The difference between 103 and 107 is pretty miniscule on the HOLY FUCK IT’S HOT scale.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
ya, but its a dry heat, so it's not so bad,,,,
my high school AD was from phoenix & every time he heard that he’d get so mad. they didnt have A/C growing up & he would always talk about how miserable his childhood was
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
HFS that's child abuse. no A/C is literally life-threatening. every summer, people die just from being hot.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
it was the late 50's & early 60's, did anyone have A/C back then?
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
i guess not. how did they survive? maybe they had houses made of adobe
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
a bunch of pdf files?
that doesn’t seem to efficient.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
"I'm not your bitch," Molina told Phillips.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Aug 23, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i have no idea, i never would have made it
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing can be made
i think yes, actually
or it might have been 104. not sure
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
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