Duncanstein's Monster: A Play In One Act
by DanUpBaby on Jul 9, 2010 4:36 AM EDT
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PrintDUNCANSTEIN'S MONSTER: A VIVA EL BIRDOS PLAY IN ONE ACT
SCENE
We are in a dark room. There is a man narrating, all avant garde-like, and in a chair next to him, obscured by darkness, another man, shivering and stubbly, who seems about to speak. The narrating man reads his letters.
Memphis, May 28, 20—
TO Mr. Brendan Ryan, St. Louis
You will rejoice to hear that no disaster has accompanied the commencement of an enterprise which you have regarded with such evil forebodings. I arrived here recently, and my first task is to assure my roomie of my welfare and increasing confidence in the success of my undertaking. (Bro! The wrist feels great. I'm hitting Dennys Reyes's weight.)
Memphis, June 30, 20—
In the morning, as soon as it was light, I came out upon the practice fields to see my fellow Redbirds engaged at one side of the bullpen, apparently talking to someone outside the ballpark. It was, in fact, a bullpen car, like that we had seen before, which had drifted toward us in the night. There was a human being within it whom the players were persuading to enter the vessel. He was not a savage inhabitant of some undiscovered island (is this racist? let me know) but a pitching coach. His bullpen car rattled and coughed; his hair was arranged in a rough mullet, his face gotten up in a permanent sneer. When I appeared on deck the manager said, "Here is Joe Mather, and he will not allow you to perish on the open sea." (Guy is weird.)
On perceiving me, the stranger addressed me in English, although with a strange accent. "Before I come on board your vessel," said he, "will you have the kindness to inform me what kind of pitching strategy you favor?"
You may conceive my astonishment on hearing such a question addressed to me from a man on the brink of destruction. I mean, did he see me pitch? But we talked, and he told me a story you might want to pass along to Tony.
DUNCANSTEIN: I am by birth a pitching coach, and my family is one of the most distinguished of that republic. Growing up I was fond of all the classical works of pitching theory—Agrippa, Sain, Lasorda. I passed my childhood and my apprenticeship in the calm, pleasant worlds of these masters, until one day my father chanced to look upon the title page of one of them—I Live For This. "Ah, Lasorda?" He said. "My dear Duncanstein, don't look at this—it is sad trash."
MATHER: None of this means anything to me. But go on.
DUNCANSTEIN: If he had only taken a moment to explain to me that defense-independent statistics had long ago exploded other ways of looking at pitching I should have gone on to other things, furthered my other studies. But his cursory glance only made me read with greater ardor. While my brothers worked on other things I disturbed, with profane fingers, the tremendous secrets of the pitcher's frame.
MATHER: I'm detecting some some worrisome literary allusions here. But Brendan's not responding to the bro signal!
DUNCANSTEIN: I had created a being that only knew groundballs—not nuance, not command, certainly not control. Not even I, its creator. I had desired it with an ardor that far exceeded moderation; but now that I had finished, the beauty of the dream vanished, and breathless horror and disgust filled my heart. So what I'm saying is, watch out for that.
In the CARDINALS CLUBHOUSE morale is low. BRAD PENNY hasn't made a pun on his own name in months. ALBERT PUJOLS occasionally forgets to put on the accent. MATT HOLLIDAY's agoraphobia has led him to abandon Twitter and bases-loaded situations entirely. When BRENDAN RYAN reads JOE MATHER's letters he is often not sure how to respond—one can only so many times talk about shaving or growing a mustache. But Mather's latest missive brings a cold chill down the shortstop's spine. A monster is coming.
RYAN: Brad—hey, Brad. Have you noticed anything weird today?
PENNY: Normally I have a—a sixth cents about these things, but—I'm sorry, man. My heart just isn't in it.
RYAN: I'm sorry to hear that, I guess. Frank, what about you?
FRANKLIN: Jump from the upper deck, what do you mean? That's preposterous! It was just one inning! I've got a lot to live for! I'm so over it.
RYAN: See a counselor, please. Okay. Okay.
[From his locker BRENDAN RYAN removes a large novelty megaphone.]
RYAN: All right. Has anybody here noticed a large, artificial human being shambling philosophically through the locker room?
LOHSE [sipping a frozen coke.]: I think I know who you're after. But you have to ask me the right way.
RYAN: Can you please help me find the monster that's been sent to ruin our pitching staff?
LOHSE: Try harder.
RYAN: Kyle, I need you to help me find the monster that's been sent to ruin our pitching staff.
LOHSE: More badass!
RYAN: Bring me to the monster that's been sent to ruin our pitching staff!
LOHSE [flipping down his sunglasses.]: I can do it... but it won't be pretty.
LOHSE: He's in Tony's office.
TONY LA RUSSA's office is lit, today, by a single incandescent light bulb—some well-meaning interior designer must have removed the fixture for a more atmospheric, morose effect. A lanky pitcher with a feathery beard, long arms, and exposed bolts arrayed around his neck is just barely lit, standing to the right of TONY's desk. In shadow DAVE DUNCAN can be seen, casting a pokerfaced glance.
LOHSE: Oh, God—it's—it's Duncanstein!
MONSTER: It is I, Dun—
RYAN: Duncanstein's monster, Kyle. I mean, think about—it should be easy to figure this out when you're looking right at it. Is that Dave Duncan's evil brother?
LOHSE [kicks dirt, mutters into his cap]: Well, no...
RYAN: Is it a monster he built from spare parts to prove that he, like God, could create groundballs?
LOHSE:
LOHSE:
LOHSE: Yeah...
RYAN: Okay. Good.
MONSTER: —It is I, Duncanstein's Monster! Mike MacDougal!
DUNCAN: Brandon Webb's groundball rate, Brandon Morrow's walk rate, Brandon Lyon's strikeout rate. This is my brother's work, all right. He has the Duncan madness—and the Duncan genius. It's... it's beautiful.
LOHSE: Come on! I have Brandon Lyon's strikeout rate, too.
LA RUSSA: Duncanstein's Monster, you had something you wanted to say?
MONSTER: I was sent here for nefarious reasons, to be sure. To destroy an impure bullpen; to repay in vengeance what I've gotten from humanity in indifference. But when I came upon your sad clubhouse I realized I was here, really and truly here, to be a warning. It will be the first and only time I've found purpose in this cruel world, estranged from my creator, my nickname, and even the Royals. I am... a counterexample. You, sane Duncan. Uncle—Uncle Dave.
DUNCAN: Don't call me that. What do you want?
MONSTER: I am as single-purposed a creature as has ever been tormented on this earth. And before I go wandering forevermore I'd like to tell you, as the Duncan who can—nay, who must be reformed, that you'll gain nothing from closing your mind to other ways of building a pitching staff.
MONSTER: And you, Tony La Russa. I've long admired your ability to keep a team of human beings motivated and on edge, whether up 10 games or down 15. And your capacity for turning 80 win teams into 90 win teams, and 95 win teams into 90 win teams, is justifiably legendary. But don't hesitate to loosen your hold on the reins if pieces aren't working like they're supposed to—don't turn your players and relievers into one-trick automatons like I am doomed to be. On a team struggling as this one struggles, the only way out of the morass is to find the right balance between letting the old things work and trying new ones.
LOHSE: Duncanstein... you're—you're the most profound person I've ever met. You wanna go play PS2 and talk about... about life stuff?
MONSTER: I'm afraid not. My time here, in torment, is at an end. I shall die, and what I now feel be no longer felt. Soon these burning miseries will be extinct. My spirit will sleep in peace, or if it thinks, it will not surely think thus. Farewell.
RYAN [affecting a British accent]: It's only Memphis.
RYAN: (Monty Python.)
LA RUSSA: Anything else, or are we good?
MONSTER: Oh, yeah. Waive Aaron Miles.
MONSTER: Farewell, again.
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Ha
A classic I can get behind.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Oh yea
Rec’d
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
'You wanna go play PS2 and talk about... about life stuff?'
Hilarious line. Very well done. Bravo.
'Real women know that the way to a man's heart...is through a melee attack!' - KB
Formerly known as The_teague
The other day on the radio they were talking about
How Randy Winn should go play some baseball on the PS2 because at least he might be good at that
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 9, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I find Thybault cancels out Capo Ferro
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jul 9, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
\physics_defying_somersault_over_mattybobo’s_head
by brackenthebox on Jul 9, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
The exchange between Ryan and Lohse about saying it "more badass" made me giggle out loud
It’s nice to be treated to a healthy dose of lyrical wit and whimsy as a salve for our troubled fanatics’ hearts.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
A Lasorda classic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLyIPjaZ8FA
Another excellent Viva El Birdos theater! Tag it up and send it to the head office.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 9, 2010 9:06 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Another classic
“And your capacity for turning 80 win teams into 90 win teams, and 95 win teams into 90 win teams, is justifiably legendary.”
Genius.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
so, don't take 70.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
OT- Did anyone see
this article from today’s PD?
Here is the title: “Cubs fan Bill McClellan tells Cards: Trade Pujols.”
Now, the dude isn’t a sportswriter and I am not familiar with his stuff (can’t say I ever read him) but if this isn’t the most ill-informed, lazy piece of writing, I don’t know what is.
Oh, and I love the One Act plays…
it's in fanposts, I think.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
you gotta get up pretty early in the morning
or be in a conveniently placed timezone
to beat a VEBer.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Frick
I had a whole post ready to go before I realized this was obviously a joke.
Well played, McClellan… well played indeed.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
HA
I know…I was getting ready to email him and tell him how lazy he was “Perhaps Pujols has raised his numbers since — I don’t keep track of these things.”
Man, my joke detector must be broken…hopefully I’ll get it back after the ASB.
When I used to write a column, I would do satire
and inevitably get a ton of angry email responses. My typical reply was the definition for satire. Before posting a comment or emailing a writer, if the piece has angered you, I find it is good for me to take a little while and think about the piece, re-read it a time or two, and then respond. Generally, it allows you to catch a joke, if it is one, or not sound like you are on a rant. At least it does with me, generally.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I actually starting coming around while writing my comment out and editing it on the fly
I went from a sarcastic “this has to be parody” to “this is really weird and almost perfectly symmetrical in its self-contradiction” to “oh wait, this totally is parody.”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
if the original mulling incident hadn't happened, we would've twigged faster, methinks.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
that's why all such pieces tend to have a subtitle or preface of "A Modest Proposal"
It’s like blue font for satire
by brackenthebox on Jul 9, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Pujols for Zambrano??????????????????????????????????
:=8O
This guy is on CRACK!
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
That's pretty goddamn funny, actually.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, in real world possible- or almost-happenings
Apparently the Mariners and Yankees may be nearing a Cliff Lee deal sending Jesus Montero to Seattle. MLBTradeRumors’ entirely speculative musing that Javier Vasquez’ days in New York “could be numbered” have me wondering…
What happned to Vasquez this year? Anybody know why his FIP is the second worst of his career (worst since his rookie year actually) and xFIP is the worst of his career (only goes back to 2002 on Fangraphs)?
Some interesting tidbits that didn’t require a very thorough search of his Fangraphs page on my part:
His LOB% was the highest of his career last year, and it’s down (but only to about career levels)
His GB% is the lowest recorded of his career currently
HR/FB%is second highest recorded
BABIP is actually the lowest of his career (more homers having an effect? I can’t remember exactly how the math works but I thought homers did not count as “in play” for the purpose of BABIP)
K/9 is down from the last several years, and BB/9 is way up
Throwing fastball a lot more this year (by around 5%) and slider less than last year
And the inevitable musing: would Vasquez be a pitcher people would be interested in the Cardinals pursuing? He is a durable veteran with past success. His ZiPS rest-of-season FIP projection is 3.79 for what that’s worth.
I have no idea what it would take to get a guy like Vasquez. Would we be able to afford it, and would we even want to afford it? (I’m assuming we would have to trade for him, and I have no idea what his contract looks like because I’m lazy like that and haven’t looked it up yet).
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I used "musing" twice in that post
Damn my inadequate vocabulary.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
we'll pretend it's 'mulling'?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
WHY do the Hated Yankees
ALWAYS make these lopsided trades in which they package nobodies for stars? This really burns my hooves!
>=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Montero's 20 dude... er... cow
He’s 20 years old and playing in AAA. That’s pretty impressive, regardless of what his numbers are right now. He hit a bunch of HR’s last season across two levels and is a good enough bat to fit at first if he can’t catch. He’s no slouch.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
montero is a fucking beast
if there’s ANY chance he sticks at catcher he’s one of the top 5 prospects in baseball. From what I hear, though, he’s first base bound, and thus probably not going to stick in nyc.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 9, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
We used to do this, too.
Edmonds (who was a tarnished star on whom we bought low), but Rolen was certainly a steal by Jocketty.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
the phils didn't underestimate rolen
rolen just refused to sign with them, was willing to take less to sign with us.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
we didn't either
he was injured for a year and a half after we got rid of hm and the numbers showed as such… not to mention we shed some serious money off the payroll
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 10, 2010 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
nevermind
i seriously don’t know what the fuck i was talking about…. (i clicked post, read it, and was like… whaaaa?)
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 10, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I really hope that we do.
We could not possibly buy any lower, and I think Duncan could bring Vazquez’s GB rate back up.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
+1
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Glad that I'm not the only one thinking about this
Though I have no idea what would be a realistic package to get someone like Vasquez. Hopefully his struggles this year and his age would bring the asking price down to something reasonable… theoretically of course, since it probably will never happen.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
If the Yanks didn't have Romine, a package around Bryan Anderson might've gotten it done
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
he's cheap
a rental, as i believe this is it on his contract, and would probably be fairly cheap on the free-agent market. he could definitely help us make the playoffs, i just wouldn’t want to see him actually pitch in the playoffs.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
vasquez just isn't that good
and he does not like pressure. he was lucky with lob% last year, but cox was smart enough not to leave him in in crunch time. i know a lot of people liked him last year because of peripherals or whatnot, but he is what he’s always been – pretty damning when your manager calls you out for being a nervous nellie and a choke artist.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Vazquez had a 2.87 ERA last year in 220 innings
Overall, he’s pitched 13 years in the bigs. Based on ERA adjusted for ballpark and defense he’s been above average. Based on FIP, he’s been well above average. It’s kinda ridiculous to say it isn’t that good.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 10, 2010 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions
he's good so long as you get him out in time
otherwise his numbers would be much worse. what ozzie said about him being a choker, that’s why the yanks were only pitching him on the road, skipping starts to do so, earlier in the year. they felt that he felt too much pressure in new york. months ago i had a long comment dealing with his performance in this respect from last year. his overall numbers were good, and people said better than his w-l record, which iirc was 15-10, but an examination of the game logs revealed that he was dominant in games when his team scored a bunch of runs, and early, which was surprisingly a lot of them (like 7, 8, 9 runs a pop), and these numbers carried his overall numbers, because in close games his numbers weren’t so hot, but there were fewer close games than games in which his team scored a bunch. i guess that’s what they call a frontrunner in golf and tennis, which there’s nothing wrong with, i just wouldn’t want him in the playoffs when runs are usually at a premium and games are tight.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I don't buy it
I don’t buy that Vazquez is a choker in any significant sense and I don’t buy that he can’t play in New York. People always try to find bullshit correlation for why a player is having a down year. Vazquez has lost over 2 MPH on his fastball this year, which is almost certainly the biggest reason for his bad performance and one that has nothing to do with the pressure of being in New York (much more likely to be caused by an injury).
As for the choker business, Vazquez’s situational stats are worse based on the leverage of the game (.700 OPS allowed in low leverage, .800 OPS allowed in high leverage) but I don’t think that number is particularity predictive. If he is indeed a choker, his situational splits are still going to be regressed heavily going forward due to the nature of the stat.
Besides, according to FanGraphs he still has a 4.18 FIP allowed in high leverage situations (compared to a 3.64 FIP in low leverage). Even if you take that number at face value, 4.18 is still above the average mark. There is no way Vazquez turns into a pumkin when the pressure is on – he gets a little bit worse.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 10, 2010 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
yes, and that's when he's pulled
at least in atlanta he was, which kept that fip number from getting out of hand. nothing wrong with that, just saying, it’s good to know your personnel. i’ve already done it once, but if you like go through the game logs of last year and see how many times he pitched with tons of run support and excelled, compared to the closer games, where he was generally pulled at the first sign of trouble. and why did the yanks this year do their best to try to pitch him on the road? if he was injured, what difference where he pitches? i didn’t know the ops stats, i looked at game logs, but had he been left in some of those high leverage situations those numbers are probably worse – it’s the difference between him and an adam wainwright.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
very nice DanUp
Your characterization of LaRussa’s influence on a team is spot-on.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
What a wonderful piece.
And here I thought this called for a Threepenny Opera-themed post. I was wrong and this is brilliant.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
wow. so, Dan Gilbert is angry.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I think we can all safely say
that we as a nation have been betrayed by Lebron James. So have the Netherlands and Spain and Paul the Octopus. And New York Knicks fans, most of all.
Wait, I don’t actually care. WHY AM I HAVING THESE FEELINGS???
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
not the octopus!
no, you should really read the Gilbert letter.
they had to confirm that it was actually from him because it seemed like a hoax.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it was pretty brilliant
just read this a few minutes ago, sums it up fairly well:
http://joeposnanski.si.com/2010/07/09/crazy-owners-and-second-bananas/?eref=sihp
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Anger is not my reaction. Just disappointment, and a complete loss of respect for Lebron
Not because he deserted the city of Cleveland. I mean, what sane person wouldn’t? But because of this: Bird didn’t want to join up with Magic, just like Magic didn’t want to join up with Bird. You know why? Because they weren’t bitches, that’s why.
Isn't Kobe Lebron's main rival?
Bird (Parish, McHale) and Magic (Kareem, Worthy) also played with multiple hall-of-famers (this doesn’t even include other very good players on those teams – DJ, Maxwell, Coop, etc.). To challenge for a title against other current teams with multiple great players, like Boston (Pierce, Garnett, Allen, Rondo), LeBron also had to join with other great players. Hanging around with Mo Williams and Booby Gibson wasn’t going to get it done, no matter how great LeBron is.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 9, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Reinsdorf summed it all up best
“Miami will have three great players, but no center, no point guard and no cap room,” Reinsdorf said before the decision. “I think we’ll be better if he comes to us, but I think we’ll be a great team without him.”
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
the difference between Rose & Chalmers is like not having a point guard
even though Lebron will most likely be bringing the ball up the court
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Here is the Cavs Owner's Open Letter Reply:
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gilbert_letter_100708.html
I’d say someone has the frownies…
:=8.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
"A Tease"?
u mean he wore short Catholic Girl pleated skits, lingerie, and make-up that made him look older?
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
LeBron is going to be the point guard
At least he should be. He’s obviously the guy among the three who could flip between “getting mine” and “creating”, and if you have LeBron/Wade/Bosh, you want Mario Chalmers handling the ball as infrequently as possible.
Not afraid to nitpick
I still think
if the Bulls sign Korver, to float around the arc while Rose & Boozer pick & roll, and add a couple other solid players off the bench, they’ll have a team that can compete with the new Big 3
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
The Magic have a team that can compete with Miami
It’s either gonna be Chris Bosh at 230 pounds or some veteran’s minimum guy who will be attempting to guard Dwight Howard. It’s either going to be double teams (the Magic constructed their entire team around making you pay for this) or Dwight Howard is going to be one on one with a 230 pound guy or a veteran’s minimum guy. On defense, maybe play a zone or at least pack the middle funneling drivers to Howard and make Wade or Lebron (<35% career 3 point shooters) beat you from the outside. They have a way to beat that team.
Not afraid to nitpick
it's definitely going to get heated in Florida
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
YEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAA....
no.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 9, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Rumor is
that the Magic are going to move Vince’s expiring deal along with Jameer Nelson and another player (Brandon Bass) to New Orleans for Chris Paul. If that happens, and they re-sign J.J. Redick, they’re my favorite to win the East regardless of what anyone else does. Nobody else in the conference would be able to beat a Howard/Paul/Lewis combination in a 7 game series.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm partial, obviously
but I’d take D. Williams over Paul
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Right now?
Yes.
100% Healthy? Give me CP3. Just because he’s better defensively, plays passing lanes, and runs the break better.
They are very close, however, I think if you put Paul in Jerry Sloan’s offense he might be the best player in the league.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
yeah, but I'm an Illini fan
so there’s no facts involved.
and maybe I’m mis-remembering, but Williams beat Paul (and everyone else) in that passing-dribbling-shooting thing they do at the all star game
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
And a 12 year old girl might beat Chris Johnson at Punt-Pass-Kick
That doesn’t make her a better running back :-D
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
is she the ice box?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
by STLRegalia on Jul 9, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I have to say though...
…that it’s really splitting hairs and you couldn’t go wrong with either. Williams is bigger and stronger but Paul has the quickness advantage. I’d be happy with either.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i'd take deron
like his size advantage. i might take rondo over paul, too, but i was never a big paul guy (wrongfully), but loved rondo in prep school and kentucky, picked him to be a star (rightfully).
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Pick and rolls with Paul/Lewis
would be EVEN MORE unfair, because you’d have to cover a pick and pop by Lewis while preventing Howard from getting open under the basket on the backside.
Chris Paul would average a 16-5-14-2 on this team and they’d be absolutely SICK defensively.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i love that lebron went to "wade's team"
could you imagine bird, magic, jordan, or kobe doing that? haha. lebron punked himself out.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
lebron would be a badass pippen 2.0 though
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
No, he's not
Dwyane Wade is, or at least he was until yesterday. Kobe and LeBron have never played a meaningful game against each other. LeBron wanted what Kobe has, only I think he’s now realizing that he can’t have what Kobe has because this team isn’t his.
If you believe that Kobe is his main rival, then LeBron and Nike have you wrapped up in marketing and not basketball, because he’s now gotten you to believe that he’s on the same level as a guy with 5 rings, mainly through aggressive marketing of his brand. Kobe is the most popular player in the world — his merch outsells Lebron 2-1 overseas even though he isn’t close in the U.S. right now.
Comparing the ’80’s Celtics and Lakers to this Heat team is awful. There’s a reason that fans refer to those teams as Bird’s Celtics, Magic’s Lakers, and, to take it a step further, MJ’s Bulls (he also played with a HOFer for all of his rings) or Russell’s Celtics, or Isiah’s Pistons. Even though those teams were loaded with HOF players and All-Stars, you KNEW who the alpha dog was on those teams: Bird, Magic, MJ, Russel, and Isiah. The ‘70 Knicks weren’t Frazier’s, the ‘72 Lakers weren’t Wilt’s, they were combinations of great players and if you think that hasn’t hurt their legacies as players then you haven’t studied NBA history very much, imo.
If the Heat win, who gets the credit? Bosh certainly won’t — Wade and LeBron will split it 70/30, but it’s Wade’s team and he already has a title and a Finals MVP without LeBron, so LeBron will be the sidekick — the Scottie Pippen to Wade’s MJ.
By doing this, he’s essentially turned himself into ‘72 Wilt or ’04 Karl Malone/Gary Payton or ’05 Alonzo Mourning: He couldn’t do it on his own (even with other good players), so he joined up and became a role player on a team with two great players already (Elgin Baylor and Jerry West), and you could argue that he was the fourth best player on that team behind Gail Goodrich, even though Elgin wasn’t able to finish that season, he was in place when Wilt demanded to be traded there.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Or as Joe Posnaski put it today, far more eloquently than I can say it:
Dwayne Wade is Miami. LeBron is coming to town in the role of A-Rod to Wade’s Jeter. He may be better. They may love the way he plays. But it’s Dwayne Wade’s team and his town.
Perfect analogy.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 9, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dwyane Wade is, or at least he was until yesterday. Kobe and LeBron have never played a meaningful game against each other.
I must have missed all those “meaningful” games between Wade and LeBron. In fact I don’t remember a single one. What playoff series are you talking about?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 9, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
They've played each other multiple times in the Eastern Conference
They’ve guarded each other. If anyone’s his foil, it’s been Wade, because he won a title with Shaq and a team of replacement level players while LeBron couldn’t even get to the Finals with Shaq and a team of slightly better replacement players.
Kobe and LeBron aren’t rivals — one has 5 rings, the other has 0 and got swept in the Finals by a team that Kobe has owned for the better part of his career as a Laker. Maybe as MVP candidates they are, but Kobe’s clearly the better player, imo, because his game has no weakness. There’s only a few players you can say that about in the history of the game. LeBron’s gifted enough athletically that he can get away with not being a consistent jump shooter (much like Dr. J.), but I also think that’s his Achilles heel: He’s dripping with so much God-given talent that he’s never had to work at being great — he was born great. Kobe’s improved and changed his game to fit in with multiple teams — he’s not MJ, but he might be as close as we ever see.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Kobe's weakness is himself
He wants to do it and he’ll jack up dumb shots to do it. His 6-24 was every bit the choking stink bomb that LeBron’s 9 TOs in Game 6 was.
I’m pretty sure if you switch out Bynum for FatShaq, Gasol for Varejao, Artest for Hickson and Odom for Jamison, the Lakers lose to the OKC Durants in the first round…
Not afraid to nitpick
Disagree
He wants to do it and he’ll jack up dumb shots to do it. His 6-24 was every bit the choking stink bomb that LeBron’s 9 TOs in Game 6 was.
His team WON. We measure things on a scoreboard, you know. Sure, he had a bad shooting night, but he dished out 6 dimes and grabbed 14 rebounds while getting to the line 15 times. That’s finding a way to win, especially when the two most important things in the entire series were rebounding and free throws made. The team that led in those categories WON EVERY GAME OF THE FINALS.
LeBron quit on his team, his fans, and apparently himself against the Celtics. He didn’t even show up. He just mailed it in, packed his bags, and hopped the first flight out of town.
Sure, Kobe has that killer mentality and I think it does get him in trouble sometimes. But it’s not like Jordan didn’t jack up some ridiculously bad shots in his career either. At least Kobe has a sense of history and his place in it. LeBron clearly does not, or he would not have made this decision.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Oh come on, that's like W-L for pitchers
He won (in part) because he airballed two game winning shots and his teammates bailed him out in the same playoffs. LeBron is apparently a self absorbed nutjob, but again switch out Bynum for FatShaq, Gasol for Varejao, Artest for Hickson and Odom for Jamison, the Lakers lose to the OKC Durants in the first round.
LeBron got to the line 12 times, dished 12 assists and grabbed 19 rebounds. He mailed in the last 5 minutes yeah when they were down by 15, but don’t even say that 6/24 for for 23-2-15 is better than 8/21 for 27-10-19. Kobe wasn’t the best Laker in Game 2, 6 or 7, that was Gasol.
Not afraid to nitpick
And Kobe was the best Laker
in games 1, 3, 4 and 5. Not to mention being the best Laker in the three previous playoff series to get them to the Finals.
I’ll take a 23-2-15 in a win over a 27-10-19 in a loss any day, but especially in a Game 7. It’s not like a win-loss for pitchers, because scoring those points, getting to the line, and grabbing those boards all contributed to his team winning. Last I checked, he was the leading scorer in that game. If we’re giving out MVP’s for just Game 7, then Ron Artest and Lamar Odom probably deserve them more than either Kobe or Gasol.
LeBron couldn’t get his team past a team that the Cavs completely outclassed in the regular season. And that roster he had was much better than what Kobe made the playoffs with in 2007 in a better conference.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Point is
If LeBron wasn’t by far the best player on the court (let alone his own team), the Cavs were guaranteed to lose. If Kobe didn’t have a dominant game, the Lakers could still win (and did) because of the supporting cast.
Last I checked, he was the leading scorer in that game.
Kobe was the leading scorer because he took 24 shots. You could tell DJ Mbenga to take 24 shots and I bet he can put up 23 points too. Kobe had a dogshit game, there’s just no arguing that. The difference between being a “winner” and a “loser” is Pau Gasol being better than Varejao, Andrew Bynum being better than FatShaq, Odom being better than Jamison and Artest being better than Hickson….AKA things that had nothing to do with Kobe/LeBron.
Saying “I’ll take a worse line because they won” is exactly the same logic as “7 IP 4 ER is better than 8 IP 3 ER because he got the Win…..because his offense put up 8 runs”…
I mean my god in 2009, LeBron averaged 35-9-7 and being 51% from the floor, what more is he supposed to do? That’s more points, more rebounds and more assists at a higher FG% than Kobe has had in any one of those categories in any playoff year….it’s not LeBron’s fault Chris Wallace didn’t gift wrap him Gasol for Ilgauskas and not Kwame Brown.
And that roster he had was much better than what Kobe made the playoffs with in 2007 in a better conference.
And Kobe went out in the 1st round that year, that’s not really a feather in his cap. Or are you saying that it wasn’t until he got a better roster around him that he could do anything in the playoffs sans PrimeShaq?
LeBron doesn’t have that Jordan drive (no one does so that’s kind of unfair), nor is he on Kobe’s level in that regard. But he is more talented and just better at basketball, the only arguments to be made that Kobe is better right now (COUNT THE RINGZZZ) are completely reliant on having PrimeShaq, Gasol, Odom etc at his side.
Now if LeBron doesn’t end up winning anything over his whole career, then it might be a legitimate point, but the dude is 25 and the 2nd best player he has played with is Mo Williams…so yeah.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 9, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure he does
PER rewards players who dominate the ball. Even John Hollinger, the guy who came up with PER labels this as one of the stats largest flaws. Kobe doesn’t dominate the ball in the triangle offense. Any stat that has David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Neil Johnston, and Bob Pettit ranked ahead of MAGIC FUCKING JOHNSON is a bogus stat.
BTW, where’s Larry Bird on that list? Tied with Kobe Bryant. Hmmmmmmmmm…
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't think ranking David Robinson and Bob Pettit ahead of Magic Johnson
is proof that a stat is flawed.
In terms of career PER?
You’re entitled to your opinion, and I’m not going to get into an extended diatribe about PER.
Rephrasing, any statistic that has David Robinson ahead of Hakeem Olajuwon or Bob Pettit ahead of Bill Russell and Elgin Baylor is flawed.
Russell and Baylor dominated Bob Pettit when they played against him. DOMINATED.
Hakeem may be the best center ever. He averaged 3 blocks and 2 steals a game for his career. Only player to ever to do that. Dominant offensive and defensive player and his prime was about 9 years long. Yet according to PER, Robinson was a better player even though Hakeem pretty much dismantled his Spurs teams every time they played head to head. Do I even need to bring up the ‘95 playoffs? He averaged a 38/14/4/4/2 against David Robinson and then a 33/13/6/4/3 against Shaq. Considering how badly he pasted Pat Ewing in the previous years Finals, you could make the case that he absolutely dominated the three best centers of his era in a 2 year span while they were in the early prime, mid-prime, and late prime of their careers. I’m not sure any player ever has put on such a display outside of Michael Jordan.
Yet, according to PER, Robinson is better. Lunacy.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
the key here
is you’re convinced by head to head play, and I’m not. That’s fine; we’re just not going to agree.
No, I'm convinced that if you dominate another player in a head to head match up every time you play against that player
It’s simply not feasible to say that player is better by any statistic or “efficiency rating”. Robinson shrunk from the spotlight, Hakeem thrived in it. If you want to have a debate, the debate should be over Tim Duncan and Hakeem — once Duncan arrived and Robinson could take a backseat role he thrived. That’s not a guy I want to build my team around.
There’s something to be said for making your teammates better, and basketball (perhaps soccer or hockey as well) is one of those sports where you can see this happen. Magic did this in spades. Most of the guys who thrived on those 80’s Laker teams (excluding Kareem, obviously) weren’t nearly as good without Magic as they were with Magic. The last year before he retired, that Laker team won 58 games, scored 106 PPG and went to the Finals. The next year, they won 43 games and scored 100 PPG with almost the exact same roster and got bounced in the first round.
I don’t think that LeBron has this type of effect. Antawn Jamison was a better player on the Wizards than he was on the Cavs. Boozer has been a better player since leaving Cleveland. Mo Williams was a solid PG for Milwaukee, but wasn’t a good player in Cleveland. The only player you could make a legit case for would be Anderson Varejao, but he’s never played without LeBron, so we don’t really know how good he can be playing on another team. Sure, none of those guys are top 100 all time talent, but they didn’t improve playing with LeBron either, and I think part of that is on him.
I think his teammates liked him a lot, but nobody really feared or respected LeBron — he doesn’t inspire other players to be better than they are. Jordan, Magic, Hakeem and Bird had this quality — you just didn’t want to disappoint those guys. I don’t think that Ewing, Robinson, Dominique, or LeBron have this quality. They just don’t.
I’m on the fence on Kobe — I think there are times when his teammates hate his guts, but I also think that guys like Gasol, Artest, and Odom play better when he’s all over their ass about missing a defensive rotation or not being in the right spot on offense because they don’t want to let down a guy with such great talent. Larry Bird could be surly with teammates as well, but nobody on those teams is going to call him out for being a bad teammate. I’m just not sure it’s the same with Kobe. I think the next 2-3 seasons, as his skills begin to fade and he has to pick his spots more and more often, we’ll really get a clearer answer to this question.
After The Decision, I’m not sure if we’ll ever truly know if LeBron can make others better, but we’re certainly going to know whether he makes other players worse.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Some thoughts.
“I don’t think that LeBron has this type of effect. Antawn Jamison was a better player on the Wizards than he was on the Cavs.
Just barely. His PER dropped from 17.5 to 16.7 That can be easily explained by the fact that Lebron commands the ball more than say, Caron Butler or Gilbert Arenas. For instance, he averaged 20.5 PPG with WAS and 15.8 with CLE, while taking almost 4 less shots per game. It’s a legitimate reason why his numbers decreased, and it wasn’t that Lebron made his teammates worse necessarily, just that he Jamison had less shots in Cleveland’s offense.
“Boozer has been a better player since leaving Cleveland.”
I guess you can claim that, but how can we really know? Boozer was only 22 in his final year with the Cavs, he may have just simply developed further rather than be exposed to a better system (Although, Sloan’s system was very beneficial to Boozer’s stats).
“Mo Williams was a solid PG for Milwaukee, but wasn’t a good player in Cleveland.”
Not true. Mo Williams, in his first year with the Cavs in 08-09, experienced a career year in PER, FG%, PPG, and several other areas. As for his next year, he didn’t play as many games, took 1.5 less FG per game, which explains his -2ppg differential between 08-09 (17.8) and 09-10(15.8). Again, nothing I see here screams that Lebron makes his players worse, as all of his statistics are accounted for with changes in play.
Sure, none of those guys are top 100 all time talent, but they didn’t improve playing with LeBron either, and I think part of that is on him."
I think the whole idea is overblown. Lebron is who he is, a one in a generation guy that demands the ball constantly because he is frankly the best player in the NBA, but there is no sheer proof that his teammates are worse when they are on his team.
As for Kobe, it’s really hard to evaluate his leadership for several reasons. First off, if you are a teammate of Kobe, and you challenge him, whose side do you think the Coach and front office will be on? The top 2 player in the NBA or you, most likely a role player type guy. The answer is Kobe every time. I think that this inspires a sort of forced silence on his teammates (Hell, even Ron Artest didn’t talk about his leadership), and makes them bottle up all their questions, criticisms, etc. FWIW though, Larry Bird’s favorite active player is Kobe Bryant (To the extreme dismay of Bill Simmons)
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
i think you're wrong about
it coming down to whose side the coach and front office take. it never gets that far, never needs to. when bird or magic or jordan tell a teammate something, they do not need backup. it’s done. the other player would never even contemplate it. that’s why they are who they are – they command respect, and they’ve earned it on the court, both practice and game. if kobe fits into this category, and i’m still on the fence, then the same applies to him. it’s bullshit to say the front office and coach would back kobe when it would never come to that. remember when garnett made big baby cry? did he need the coach and front office to have his back?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Not necessarily
But you are right, it only quantifies defense in the way of blocks or steals., etc.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
hakeem was definitely the best center of that era
and since.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
You can keep this going all night
I’ll take Kobe over LeBron any day for two reasons:
- Winning is clearly the most important thing to Kobe. Not sure it is to LeBron — I think “having fun” is, and this ain’t fucking LIttle League
- The only thing that stops Kobe is Kobe. LeBron will never be a consistent jump shooter at this level, he doesn’t have the work ethic to be a great player and it doesn’t look like he’s interested in being a great player.
I look forward to watching the entire league play zone defense against the Heat next year. As a basketball fan I’ll hate every minute of it, but since nobody on that team can consistently knock down shots, why would you play those guys straight up? That’s just stupid. Something tells me the zone defense rules are going to change to accommodate this team, just like the moving screen rules changed to accommodate the ‘99-’03 Kings and the ‘06-’08 Suns.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Hey I agree with you there
The Heat can be beaten if you pack it in and make them beat you with jumpers, this isn’t some super team. The Magic can beat them, the Bulls if they play this out right can beat them and the Lakers should be favored over them.
PS: the only region that Kobe was better than LeBron last year in FG% is from 10-15 feet. LeBron doesn’t really take shots from there, he instead goes to the rim more frequently and more efficiently. Outside of that Kobe wasn’t any better, not from 3 (where LeBron actually attempts more shots—-for some reason—-at about the same rate) or from 16-23 feet so I’m not too sure LeBron can’t develop that game himself.
And yes, LeBron doesn’t seem to have that killer instinct, that’s why it’s nuts that he is this good. If he ever works out that mid-range postup game of Jordan and Kobe, it’s over.
In any case, I feel pretty confident in saying that if Chris Wallace doesn’t gift them Gasol, Kobe’s legacy is that he was Me First® and not this killer Winner®. He hasn’t changed one bit, the guys around him did.
Not afraid to nitpick
I think that if they hadn't gotten Gasol they would have gotten somebody else
Possibly Bosh.
I don’t think he’s ever going to work out that mid-range post up game because he doesn’t have the work ethic to work on his game and improve it to that extent, and his jump shot just doesn’t have the consistent stroke he needs. He’s about as good as he’s going to get, and I think he’ll be out of his prime by age 28. I don’t think you can continue to blast your way into the paint for years on end like he has without getting beaten up to some extent. Wade doesn’t attack the rim as relentlessly as he used to, and now he doesn’t have to — LeBron will do it for him.
Wade is the big winner in this whole debacle. He can coast through the first three quarters of games and then take over in the 4th. He doesn’t have to attack the rim and get knocked down 200 times a season, he can coast on the coattails of the other two guys, then score 12 down the stretch in the 4th and take all the credit. By convincing LeBron to come to Miami, he probably extended his career by 3 years.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Either way
The Cavaliers have not had Pau Gasol or Chris Bosh, or any legitimate All Star aside from LeBron. To say “Kobe Won > LeBron not won” is as flawed as W-L when you see that the Lakers 5th best player is better than Mo Williams.
Not afraid to nitpick
yeah, wade is a huge winner (and pat reilly)
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
haha - riley
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
agree on lebron
he coasts on god-given talent. he’s daryl strawberry without the drugs.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
But...
If Kobe doesn’t go 6-24 they probably win that game easily. Of course he did some great things late to help them win the game and showed a lot of fight, which is admirable, but let’s not pretend it was a great performance. And not that LeBron’s last game in CLE wasn’t a vintage shooting performance and was loaded with turnovers, so I’m not about to argue that one was better than the other…. frankly both were underwhelming for guys who are widely considered two of the very best players in the game.
I think it’s best to say that one was forcing shots and the other was forcing passes. Neither is good. Michael Lewis’s piece on Battier noted that even assists can be selfish if you’re forcing a pass or throwing it to an inferior player.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
forget all of this Lebron/Kobe talk
I’m still grieving the loss of Kirk Hinrich. It was worth it for Lebron or Wade, but now that it’s official, I am sad
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I'm not saying it was a great performance
It was a gutty performance. He sucked it up and moved the ball in the 4th quarter, only taking 4 of his 24 shots down the stretch, making one of them, and it was a big bucket. He knew he wasn’t having a good shooting night, so instead of settling for jumpers he attacked the basket and got to the line.
You’re going to have bad games. How you react to them is what defines you. LeBron coasted through the 4th quarter listlessly without giving a shit, his team fought back and cut it to 9 points without hardly any help from him at all. Talk about a complete lack of character — he didn’t even look like he wanted to be there.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Whaaaaat?
Taking 20 shots through 3 quarters is not any of that. That’s totally revisionist, Kobe was jacking up shots because he wanted to do it himself…..like usual.
If Artest/Gasol don’t come up with their games, then do you spin it “Kobe shot 25%, he obviously choked”?
Not afraid to nitpick
You and Bill Simmons have your opinion
I’ll stick with mine, thanks.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
To be honest this sounds very much like the MSM view of baseball
I don’t care about basketball, so I won’t get into this, but you are sounding a lot like Jon Heyman.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 10, 2010 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup, so I walked away
Basketball is a lot more about effort than baseball is, but Kobe had a terrible fucking game in Game 7 and was helped out by his teammates. LeBron also had a fucking terrible game and because he didn’t have Pau Gasol or Ron Artest (who is a good player despite being apeshit nuts) to pick up the slack. Sure, maybe Kobe showed more heart but he still played like a heap of shit.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 10, 2010 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions
i saw both games
and the difference is, kobe was involved and lebron wasn’t. this is even more egregious considering the cavs had no one else to take over, like the lakers, and lebron went something like 7 possessions in a row without even “touching the ball”, like he just disappeared – that would never happen with kobe – if the lakers went down it was going to be with him in charge. i hate the lakers, and am not a big kobe lover at all, but who they have beside them has nothing to do with their will to win, and kobe has it in spades, lebron not so much. i think that’s the main point.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Over the last few years, I think most people would say that Kobe and LeBron are rivals in the sense of “who is the best player in the NBA?”. If you want to say LeBron’s more natural rival is Wade, not Kobe, fine. But it’s not because LeBron hasn’t played meaningful games against Kobe – he hasn’t played any “meaningful” games against Wade either. The Cavs haven’t had any sort of rivalry with either the Lakers or Heat over the last 7 years.
In any event, since I dont give a shit about Cleveland, or its fans, I’m glad he’s moved to Miami. The only thing that might be better than another Lakers-Celtics finals, will be a Lakers-Heat final next year. I hope the Heat make it just so I can watch.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 9, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
if they trade Cliff Lee, could he switch from starting against them to starting for them?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That's the way MLBTR made it sound.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I swear I'm going to use this in meetings today
“None of this makes sense to me, but please continue.”
Nicely done once again
I’m looking forward to the release of “VEB: The Collected Works”
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 9, 2010 10:38 AM EDT reply actions
I would do that
if they were tagged.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Yes!
Now all I need is to change into my smoking jacket, grab my snifter of cognac, and I’m set for the afternoon.
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 9, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
there is technically a tag for it, btw
but they’re not consistent. unfortunately I think DanUp has to tag them himself.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
fang reported that there is now a fakejoestrauss.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yup, I have high hopes for that one...
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
that might be enough to get me to sign up for twitter.
I will wait for the reviews before I take the plunge. I"m not a fan of twittering but in this case it might take instant review to appreciate the subtle (or not so subtle) humor.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
What will happen?
It is very unlikely that the Cards will trade for anyone of much value. They have no prospects that have appeal to other teams other than Shelby. So, they are skimming through the dumpster looking for the doughnut sitting on a napkin almost hovering above the cylinder. Jack Wilson, Kevin Millwood, Westbrook? Moz has already picked a couple of scraps out of the refuse and planted them at Memphis.
This team is stagnant. They are stale and adding garbage to stale seems useless. This team needs freshness. John Jay has brought some freshness in. What sucks is that this team is stale and most of them are supposed to be back for next year. Walt Jocketty used to turn over about 1/3 of the roster every year. This team is a good example of why. They aren’t having fun. They don’t look like they want to play. This leads to mental lapses which cause things such as poor strike zone judgement, baserunning errors, and fielding mistakes. For pitchers, they cause things such as poor location which leads to walks and really hard-hit balls.
This team needs a spark that can make Albert happy and playing like a kid instead of the Grinch. Once that happens, the dominoes will start to fall. Yadi will have a month where he doesn’t create more outs than at-bats. (a slight exageration, but didn’t it seem like he hit into more DP’s in June than he had hits) Brendan Ryan will get his mojo back. He needs to be goofy to be effective. Eventually, Freese and Ludwick may play again. Rasmus will stop striking out every third at-bat and start throwing to where he is aiming. (when he does, he will be the best CF in the NL)
The world will be OK again.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
the cardinals are a loaf of bread?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Bread
Well said…if that is the case, then can they just cut the mold off around the edges?
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
this, I can get behind.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
So Cardinals.... do you ever feel, you know....
not so fresh?
by Andyfantastic on Jul 9, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
all very well said Elvis....
Your right on. We just seem stale and have no passion for winning right now. The fact that we haven’t put together a winning streak of more than 2 games since april really hurts. I think a good 4-5 game streak could really get everyone going and give us some momentum to turn the attitude of this team around. Although, with suppan/hawk holdin down the back of the rotation and the typical crap lineup every other day from TLR it may be a lot harder that it seems or than it should be.
by mick311 on Jul 9, 2010 12:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I still deeply, deeply disagree with this whole "their attitude is limp" thing.
where is this coming from? are you listening to these guys in interviews and pre-game? there’s not just no correlation, there’s no evidence, there’s no context.
reread your last sentence and look at all the games they should have won but for overmanaging at the last moment and the crappy roster management. that is a fact. and honestly, reread DanUp’s day thread from yesterday. we can’t know this stuff.
but I damn well want to see some direct quotes and observations before we start tossing this nonsense around the place.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 9, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
'cause you know what?
making pronouncements on how hard a team is trying without any evidence is something BCB does all the time.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
watching them, it appears as if there is a lack of fire
i believe this correlates to roster management and in-game decisions – they want to win, but they feel the opportunity is being taken from them, imo. after a while, it gets old, or stale, and they begin to look resigned. how would you feel if you were albert and had stav batting behind you in the lineup, or miles in front…or going up to the plate to be walked in extra innings because a reliever was batting behind you? quotes mean nothing, because players are savvy and watch their words. body language is more telling – albert’s look when franky was blowing up the colorado game…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
They had a three-game streak
in early June.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 9, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
serious question
who exactly from the farm system is going to their respective All Star Games?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Futures Game
Shelby Miller and Eduardo Sanchez….Not sure about the other games.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
PCL roster
here.
Looks like Salas and Brandon Dickson from Memphis.
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 9, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, apparently Tyler Greene was selected initially.
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 9, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Selections may change due to injury, promotion or availability
AAA: Tyler Greene – SS, Brandon Dickson – RHP
AA: Steven Hill – C, Aaron Luna – OF, Curt Smith – 1B, Adron Chambers – OF, Scott Gorgen – RHP, David Kopp – RHP, Eduardo Sanchez – RHP
A+: Jose Garcia – SS, Matthew Frevert – RHP, Richard Racobaldo – 3B, Tony Cruz – C, Xavier Scruggs – 1B
A: D’Marcus Ingram – OF, Matt Adams – 1B, Eric Fornataro – RHP
Futures: Eduardo Sanchez – RHP, Shelby Miller – RHP
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
by azruavatar on Jul 9, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
awesome. thanks y'all.
I have it on good authority that Skip Schumaker is looking you up online right now.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Sweet
you are obviously not as lazy as I am.
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 9, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Renewable Resource Powered Robot.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Texas League roster
here.
And I guess I missed it, since it was June 30.
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 9, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
You all know, of course, that Tommy Pham has made it to Springfield
the caption for his picture in the local newpaper says
Tommy Pham can play shortstop, pitch and handle the bat, but will play outfield for the Springfield Cardinals.
he can do it all!
"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
TLR would be really excited if he were 32 years old and declining...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Ladies love the Ichiro
This is pretty good: Ichiro chases down a just-out-of-play foul ball, plows into a cute girl in the stands, gives her a quick once-over to make sure she’s OK, girl proceeds to have a Tiger Beat-style freak-out on camera.
she has to call her mom
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
She is freaking out....man.
But Im not sure if Ichiro felt her up on his way out or not. The jury is out.
'Real women know that the way to a man's heart...is through a melee attack!' - KB
Formerly known as The_teague
he felt her leg
and then felt his own leg…or was he wiping body glitter off on his pant leg?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
actual Ichiro quote
"Chicks who dig home runs aren’t the ones who appeal to me. I think there’s sexiness in infield hits because they require technique. I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out."
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I read that but replaced
“home runs” with big dicks and “infield hits” my dick
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 9, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey I was at this game
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I would need a towel if he caressed my leg
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Great stuff Dan,
but I was really hoping for an orange slice cameo when I saw Lohse was in the play.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Sorry Everyone...
…but its Friday, I’ve had sugar, and I’m doing half a day so I can watch a bunch of people dress up like a pirate with a fake parrot on their shoulders walk around and go “arrrrgh’, while drinking ’grog” = Hampton Blackbeard Festival today.
Hence the silly posts. Happens.
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
it's 5:45 in Madrid, Rome, Paris, Prague, Amsterdam....
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
"...what time is it in New York?"
“What? My watch stopped.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I have
and all day drinking softball tournament tomorrow. Runs for beers consumed.
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Hooray for half days!
Mine is today as well. Unfortunately, no Blackbeard Festival to look forward too…
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 9, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
there's always the bullpen.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Man, they don't give me NO information up in here about Lee
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Bribe them with a Twix
I totally put out for a twix so who knows it’s capabilities.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Don't lie....
you put out for less than a twix.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
well, I only give HJ's for the Peanut Butter Twix.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Dan that was brilliant
Best part: ‘your capacity to turn 80 win teams into 90 win teams and 95 win teams to 90’
by mick311 on Jul 9, 2010 11:58 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Well I guess if the Yankees get Lee
then they have punched their ticket for the World Series again. The only suspense for the post season now is to see what NL team gets to face them.
MLB is starting to become like the NBA again to where you know at least one of the teams that will be in the Championship game. Can’t wait to read all the articles by the East Coast media proclaiming how great it is for baseball that the Yankees are in the World Series again. They just ignore that it’s killing the interest of the sport for the rest of the country.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
Maybe it's killing your interest, but not the rest of the country.
More people from all sectors of the country watch the World Series when the Yankees are playing than when they are not.
What would kill the “interest” in the sport is if the Tampa Bay Rays played the San Diego Padres.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 9, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
or the Tigers/Cardinals
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Ray-Marlins
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Blue Jays - Padres
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Mariners - Rockies
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Rockies have been there recently
and nobody likes Canada
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Indians-Nationals
THAT would be one for the ages.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
you forget how starved Cleveland is
and the Strasbrug-mania would also cause millions to watch
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
You have a good point
but I look at the bigger picture of the sport as a whole. Do the Yankees garner a higher rating for FOX…sure. But does it really help the sport as far as fan interest for other teams? If MLB was a smaller league with only 12-14 teams only in large markets then I guess it’s not a big deal. But I just don’t see how one team dominating the sport (in most years) helps the sport as a whole. If ratings are the ONLY factor then you would be right. But I just don’t see it that way.
The NFL has done it right by having teams all across the county be ratings draws. This is something that both MLB and the NBA haven’t grasped yet. As long as the Yankees are the main focus of MLB then it will continue. MLB needs to find a better way to market and brand teams outside of the East Coast so viewers would tune in to see the Padres or Rays.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
I imagine it's harder when you have games everyday
and they require people to stay up past their bed time
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Very true
but it wouldn’t hurt for MLB to try and come up with some plan that promotes more teams in the league. When only 2-3 teams gets all the media coverage…then poor ratings for other teams is not a suprise. Even with the amount of games played there should be more focus on other teams around the country other than 2-3 on the East Coast. MLB has been very poor when it comes to marketing the league. Even the NBA has started to wake up and promote more teams. Although they’re not much better,….yet. But I guess if the general feeling is the Yankees are baseball and the league can survive like that then all is well I guess.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
I don't know how you'd reliably judge fan interest better than....
TV viewership, inlcuding regional viewership, and by game attendance. Under those metrics, there is more fan interest if the Yankees play, even outside the East Coast. More people in the South, Southwest, West, and Midwest watch baseball, on TV and in person, when the Yankees play.
I’ll agree that the NFL has set up an intenal financial model that lends itself to better competitive balance, though there are systemic factors for why that’s possible in the NFL but not in MLB. Mainly this has to do with TV contracts and stadium revenue, and that fact that the vast majoirty of NFL revenue comes from TV contracts (and a much smaller part is generated by stadium revenues (like ticket sales) and can be distributed evenly, while the opposite is true in baseball.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 9, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Would you agree
if there were more teams in the league that garners the interest that the Yankees do that MLB would be in better shape?
That’s one of my problems is that one team gets the hype and ratings. My question is why can’t there be more teams that can get ratings and the glory? It just seems like a bad business model to me. I just wonder how long the sport can thrive with one or two teams getting the Lion’s share of fan interest. I guess it works to some degree for the NBA…..
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
it also works for the English Premiere league
and most other pro soccer leagues, which are much less balanced than any major American sport
by brackenthebox on Jul 9, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
“why can’t there be more teams that can get ratings and the glory?”
In the abstract, I agree it’d be better to have more “great” teams to garner more interest and ratings, but I don’t know how you’re going to get there. I don’t think it’s feasible to say that MLB marketing is going to create other great franchises to compete with the Yankees in hype, history, or winning baseball games.
Moreover, I think the business model you describe can have a very long life. Hasn’t this always been the case throughout MLB history? The Yankees have always been the dominant team, with others popping up for a few years, like the Dodgers, the Cardinals, the Reds, etc.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 9, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The only way to get more great teams
is to either have a huge increase in the amount of elite talent available or by contracting teams, which accomplishes the same thing. Even when you do that, you’re still going to have one or two teams that will be the elite of the elite most of the time because they simply have more resources than other teams do.
As bracken points out, the EPL keeps a limited number of teams at it’s highest level, yet teams like Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Chelsea have dominated in that league for years. Since 1992, only one team outside of those three (Blackburn) has won the EPL Championship, yet it remains one of the most popular sports leagues in the world. Tottenham Hotspur supposedly has the most loyal fanbase in all of sports and they haven’t won much of anything in a quarter century.
Having consistently dominant franchises is good for the game. When you beat those franchises to win a title your fans feel even more elation. It gives everyone else a franchise to openly despise, and that’s a good thing for competition.
There are hundreds of college football and basketball teams that have never won a title, conference or national. Yet their fans still turn out to watch them play. Why? It’s a sense of belonging to something, good or bad, and you can say you’ve been to the bottom when your team eventually wins something, while openly hating your rival in chorus with everyone else in the fanbase the rest of the time. It becomes part of your identity, part of who you are.
The Minnesota Vikings haven’t been to a Super Bowl in my lifetime. Yet I’m still a Vikings fan. They rip my fucking heart out constantly, yet I still root for them. I’m sure that the Detroit Lions and Philadelphia Eagles (although lets face it, nearly all Philly fans are douchebags no matter what the sport) have many fans who identify themselves with their team year in and year out despite never getting to the top.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i genuinely want to hear your opinion on Brett Favre
both because i am not a fan (at all) and because you are a fan of the team he is playing on (should say could but we all know what’s going to happen here)
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 10, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
oh yeah, i expect favre to play
not many guys hang it up when they are still superstars. barry sanders i guess, and jim brown, though for a different reason.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I don't want the MLB to be the NFL
The NFL treats it’s players like SHIT. Ryan Ludwick has been guaranteed more money this year than 75% of the NFL players will ever be guaranteed on any contract. It’s a shame that a league so rich treats it’s most important assets like complete garbage.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'd take the overall league TV exposure
that the NFL enjoys. I agree with the money part fourstick.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
I don't think you can do that with the MLB
There’s just too many games. The TV exposure is better right now than it’s ever been. It would be nice if they’d fix the arcane blackout rules so that they make some type of logical sense.
The NFL has all it’s games on 2 days for most of the season (the Thursday night games are fucking stupid and need to go) and you get a week to build up to each game. You can pack 80,000 people in to watch one game a week much easier than you can pack 40,000 people in to watch 6 games a week. The NFL would be stupid to go to 18 games and they’d be stupid to spread their games out on more than a couple days. They have the perfect balance of just enough games to make things competitive but not enough that people can’t afford to see all of them.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
people are already paying for 20 games
just like they will be if if they go to an 18 game schedule. Whether they go to 18 games or not, I hope they get rid of some of the preseason games.
As to the blackout restrictions, while they are certainly annoying, mlb.tv is so far ahead of anything the NFL provides that I think it pretty much evens out. Granted, I’m outside of the blackout areas for teams I care about, so I may be unfairly biased.
by brackenthebox on Jul 9, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
man, fuck the yankees
do they really need cliff lee? i almost would have rather seen the reds get him than the damn stupid yankees
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I can't believe the M's would do the reported deal.
All of this is based on rumor, but it seems to me that the Twins and Rays each made a better offer.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 9, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you kidding?
Montero is 20 years old in AAA and the 5th best prospect in the majors
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
And currently has no position
I’d rather have two top 75 players than one.
Montero, by most scouts, is destined to end up at 1B or DH. He does have a great bat, but he’s not Heyward, who plays above average OF, or Colby Rasmus, who plays above average CF. Sickels compares his bat to Manny Ramirez, which is apt, because Manny sucks at defense about as much as he’s good at hitting a baseball.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
What better offer were they going to get?
Hicks and Ramos are a fine combo, and I would’ve been okay with it, but HIcks is 20 in A-ball while Ramos is 23 in AAA with okay numbers
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I still think a better offer is out there
I do think Texas will see this and make a better offer. They could give up Martin Perez, Max Ramirez, and Mitch Moreland and still have a top 10 farm system. It’s also three players that they don’t have any use for at the present time, due to lots of good players at the positions Moreland and Ramirez play and how far Perez is away from the bigs. That dwarfs any Yankees offer that doesn’t include Phil Hughes along with Montero.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think the Mariners would love to have a great bat at 1B or DH...
Sounds like a fairly solid deal for them and it will help fill one of their biggest needs.
RFL for GG!
My guess?
From the Mariners side:
Get the 5th best prospect in the MLB + change. That’s enough said… Montero is a GREAT get for them. He’s 20 years old in AAA!
We flipped Tyson Gillies and Phillipe Aumont for half a year of Lee, Montero, and Dave Adams. I think that’s really good
From the Yankees side:
They can essentially punch their ticket into the WS, and if they need to, they can still flip Vasquez to replenish their farm system if they needed to
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
It's getting to the point
to where it’s foolish for other AL teams to try spend a ton of money on players to “compete” with the Yankees. The Yankees will do what they please and won’t blink an eye on adding another big contract. Even the Red Sox have to throw their arms in the air at some point and say enough is enough….and try to get MLB to get some type of system where there is more competitive balance in the league. It’s become a joke. I would think fans of other AL teams would be about at the point of giving up on the sport. Judging by attendances of some of the AL teams….it has happened.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
The luxury tax needs to be more punitive for this to happen
Other changes:
- The non-American players need to drafted, not signed. I shudder to think what would happen if the Yankees suddenly decided to invest $25M each year in the Latin American market.
- The league needs a true revenue sharing apparatus. The profit from the YES network should be shared equally among all the teams, because the Yankees have to have someone to play for the YES network to make money carrying their games. Currently they don’t share any of that, and the Red Sox don’t share any revenue or profit from NESN either.
What AL teams’ fans have given up? The Royals? They can blame stupidity and overall poor general management for their problems — they certainly shouldn’t be blaming the Yankees. They’ve graduated plenty of great talent in the last 20 years, they are just inept at managing it properly, and they have one of the best ballparks in the entire MLB. No excuse for them not to be competitive.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
In addition
why there hasn’t been more talk about assigning hard caps on draft bonuses is beyond me. It is a pointless system right now with the high end talent consistently falling due to bonus demands. It doesn’t encourage parity at all, in fact, quite the opposite.
What AL teams’ fans have given up?
Where to start….Oakland, Toronto, Cleveland, Baltimore and you can probably add in Seattle now all playing in half or more than half empty stadiums. Heck even the Rays and White Sox can’t get fans to the park in large numbers. Now granted most of these teams don’t have great teams to go see. And are their owners to share a big portion of the blame…sure. But I would think that as time goes on and these teams continue to have NO chance to field a team (and yes their owners are also to blame) that can compete against the Yankees in the playoffs that fan support will continue to wane. Although Cleveland did have their chance in 07 and now have had to start from scratch (something the Yankees never have to do). Thankfully the Twins and the Angels have great farm systems and continue to develop players that allows them to give their fans some hope that one year they might be able to get past the Yankees if everything goes right.
Sure there can be some years where a White Sox or Rays can catch fire or run into luck and make it to the World Series but the fact has been that the AL spot in the WS is dominated by the two big spenders on the East Coast . The Yankees are the best team in the AL this season again…..and in my opinion they don’t even need Lee to get to the WS again.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
i don't think it's even fair
to mention the red sox in the same category as the yankees. the sox are more like the cubs or the mets in their spending habits. nowhere near the yankees
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I agree
The only thing the Red Sox has going for them that most of the other AL teams don’t is a bigger market and TV network that allows them to spend more….but not to Yankees level, that’s for sure…or at least they have decided not to try to outspend the Yankees. Their owner John Henry has stated in the past that he wouldn’t mind some type of “cap” I’m sure to reel in the Yanks to make them come closer to the pack.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
i think it'd be great
and it doesn’t even have to be a particularly low cap. $150MM would go a long way toward restoring competitive balance even if 25 teams couldn’t even come close to that
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Imagine...
being the O’s or the Jays. You have a significantly lower chance of making the playoffs than 90% of baseball before your opening day roster is even announced. You can pretty well mark one of the Yanks or the Sox down for 95+ wins year in and year out. It’s amazing what the Rays are doing right now, but their window will begin to close in a couple more seasons.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
That's bullshit
The Orioles could spend more than they do and if they spend it smartly they could be competitive — they have a bigger market to play in then the Red Sox do. The Rays seem to be doing pretty fucking well in that division. Not every team can win EVERY SINGLE DAMN YEAR. Sometimes you have to play for the long haul, why should we punish the Yankees for spending to win every year? You know, it’s funny — when those two teams were managed well and run properly, they won World Series and made the playoffs on a regular basis.
Cubs fans have turned out to watch shitty and mediocre baseball for over a CENTURY without winning a title and a half century without even being in the World Series. Oakland never had great attendance when they were an American League power.
I disagree on the Rays — they are run by smart management and continue to turn out top players from their farm system. They can be competitive for a very long time to come.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Do you know...
how to have a difference of opinion without being combative?
All I’m saying is if Toronto and Baltimore were in ANY other division their hopes would be much greater and COSTS much smaller for being competitive than they are in the AL East. Baltimore is a laughing stock right now, but Toronto could very well be the best team in any other division.
You may be right on the Rays, as they have several team friendly long term deals (Longoria, Price, Shields and Zobrist)…really more than I thought! Still…they will likely lose Crawford, Pena, Soriano and Wheeler after this year and Balfour, Bartlett, Upton, Garza and Navarro are up for arby.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
yeah but with as many as 6 first round picks next year
and a deep system they really don’t miss those guys long term
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
I'm not being combative
Sure, their chances would be better elsewhere, but their chances would also be better if they were better managed teams who spent money wisely. The Rays have proven this. If they had a stadium that brought in any revenue at all, they’d be a tough out every year for years with the way the draft, lock up guys through arbitration years, and develop talent.
You can win in any division in baseball, and the weight shifts all the time. The Yankees are becoming an aging, overpaid baseball team. You can’t pretend that there aren’t downsides to all those long term deals they committed to, but there certainly are. They’ve been very lucky that guys like Posada and Jeter have aged gracefully. Can they make more mistakes than most teams and get away with it? Sure. Does that make them unbeatable? Absolutely not.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Why?
Because they’re willing to unload a big-time prospect to bring Lee in?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
they didn't need him
but they damn sure didn’t want him going to the rays.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i think this play in one act could not have been better timed
definitely what this team and fan base needed. love KL’s character
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
that would be cool to hang out with Lohse
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I got 7 of 9 correct!
At least I beat the average (6/9).
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 9, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
How can anything involving bacon be average?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
same here
i didn’t believe in the air freshner or then bacon chocolate
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
spoiler alert!
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
even moar spoiler
i’ve had that bacon chocolate before… unfortunately didn’t like it.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
Also, Marlins might be shopping Nolasco?
This time with MLBTR link!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
jaime made the front page of ESPN
and was awarded rookie of the half year
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=5364813
go, jaime
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
he was the first starter, since the invention of earned runs, to allow no more than three earned runs in every one of the first 13 starts of his rookie season.
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
if he could go deeper in games
that would be a more meaningful stat.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Many rookies don't go deep in games.
I think Jaime has been pretty good and gone plenty deep in games considering his “new” arm.
Regression, bitches.
the issue has been pitch count
if he could be a bit more efficient he could go deeper. they are letting him throw the pitches, but that number is only getting him so far. i think he’s been great, i’d just like to see that as the one major improvement.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I understand all that, but that "stat" is comparing him to other rookies.
Rookies aren’t usually efficient. To expect more from him at this point is absurd.
Regression, bitches.
true
just noting that saying giving up 3 runs or less without noting the innings pitched per start is a little deceiving, since some of those rookies in their first 13 starts were going 7 or 8 and maybe giving up the extra run. it’s one of those trivia things that mean little – what if a couple of those starts were 3 or 4 innings?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
well we all know though that he's gone i think 5 innings in all if not most of his starts
so i understand it can be misleading, but in this case its not……
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 10, 2010 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions
doesn't matter so much what he's done
what if another rookie went 12 games giving up 3 or less, and pitched a complete game in the 13th and gave up 4? giving up 4 in 9 innings is better than giving up 3 in 5. it’s just one of those thousands of trivia things one can come up with that are really sort of meaningless.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
ok but once again we know its not misleading... there isn't another rookie whose done this
unless you have one…. that’s my point… i agree it can be misleading but its not in the case because he goes 6 innings in more than half of his starts and has gone 5 in all but i think one… obviously giving up 4 in 9 is better than 3 in 5, but i mean you’re presenting a hypothetical situation not a real one
my point is that in this case its not misleading at all
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 10, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
he's pitched very well, but this trivia, if not misleading, is
basically meaningless.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He's on pace for nearly 200 innings this year
So far he’s averaging around 6 innings per start, which isn’t that bad when you consider that A) he’s a rookie and B) he’s coming off injury.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 10, 2010 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions
do you think they'll let him pitch 200 innings?
i think we better find another pitcher pronto. if they shut jaime down to some extent, and penny doesn’t come back…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Michael Pineda has been pulled from his start in AAA
Probably called up, Lee deal is most likely done
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Er... that first part might not be true
Blame Ed Price
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Yankees aren't getting Lee, another team has jumped in
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Texas? Pittsburgh? Yakult?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
I'm thinking Texas
And hoping it involves Smoak
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Just checked ESPN's MLB page...
@Buster_ESPN
Source:SEA-NYY talks stalled over identity of second player in the deal, second baseman David Adams.We’ll see if another team has jumped in.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Yeah, it's an ankle issue
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
more like an excuse once they got the rangers to panic and include smoak
not like the m’s didn’t know he was on the DL. still, i like to see the yanks used like that.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Well
ed_price: An official of uninvolved team said that #Rangers now willing to put Justin Smoak in a deal for Cliff Lee. And don’t count out #Reds.
You may get your wish.
He dosen't need a brick for that.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
*doesn't
/proof-reading is your friend, dumbass.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Between this and his ownership group falling apart
Nolan may be able to build a house with shitbricks.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
us?
/kidding
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
Let's saw the Yankee's still get Lee
They will have a rotation Lee, Pettite, CC, Hughes, Vazquez with Burnett most likely the odd man out. Assuming the Yankee’s pick up a nice chunk of change. I would like to see us trade for AJ Burnett.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 9, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, burnett is better, and long coveted by dunc
but too expensive for us. don’t really want vasquez, but he’s cheap and a free-agent to be.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
no way on burnett...
I have never liked him, I really think he is one of the most overpaid pitchers in baseball right now. Don’t get me wrong sometimes he looks great but he is really up and down. I would be on board for vasquez though, depending on what we would have to give up.
by mick311 on Jul 9, 2010 4:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Your ship has sailed, AZ
Tragic, my metallic friend.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm still in fucking awe that this is happening, quite literally, down the hall from me
And I’m still furiously refreshing MLBtr.com
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
get a glass and go lean against the door...
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I've already made that joke, like, 20 times today
People think I’m witty
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
We need better informants
Can’t you climb into the ceiling and crawl over? The ventilation system?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Tonights lineup
Fox_Sports_MW: Card 7/9- Lopez 3B, Rasmus CF, Pujols 1B, Holliday LF, Jay RF, Greene SS, Molina C, Wainwright P, Schumaker 2B vs “Chuck” Norris
....my quick smells like french toast...
Twitter: @mstreeter06
by mstreeter06 on Jul 9, 2010 4:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
no kidding
at least tony’s making sense there. of course, the way recent games have gone, tony will screw* it up somewhere.
- - i really wanted to use “fuck” there, but i didn’t have the stones.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
ha
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice Lineup
Can’t believe the Cards haven’t been to H-town all year.
I was drinking with Nick Stavinoha’s relatives last year when the Cards came to Houston. Didn’t have the heart to tell them what I really thought of him playing that night.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 9, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
That was big of you....especially while drinking.
In Vino Veritas.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
we have no chance against chuck norris
even though he’s 70 yoa. If Bruce Lee Smith were still our closer, I’d gives a shot against Chuck Norris because Bruce Lee killed Chuck Norris in the Roman Colosseum with his bare hands.
He also whipped his ass 10 or 11 times in real life exhibition fights, too.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
we have no chance against budchuck norris
considering his past record. and he’s a no-namer. plus, he sucks against other teams… but us!
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
Also, the Astros did something out of character and promoted Castro and Johnson
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Tomorrow
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
I'm going to all three, but am waffling on Sunday because I want to watch the World Cup final.
I’m not using two of my tickets to tonigt’s game though; was going to offer them up.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 9, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Things that suck.
Having opportunities at multiple sets of tickets for a game and not able to use them.
You’re the third person with tickets available tonight that I know.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
was a good night to go
Waino with 8 innings of shutout ball, and the mashers mashed. I’m thinking Suppan’s start will be double plus ungood tomorrow though.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 9, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
wasn't that a while ago?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Epic
Unfortunately Lee is dead and Smith is retired(dead in terms of helping us).
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
They faked it
he changed his name to Eduardo Sanchez and pitches for us at AAA. New birth certificate and everything. Can’t wait to see Bruce Lee Sanchez make his debut for the Cards.
Don't fuck with me, man.
After the last three games, I can’t take too much more disappointment today.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
in the same boat
i will rec for having the same feeling.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
lighten up Francis
or meet me in the alley to discuss further.
That was a joke Francine.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Bruce Lee is awesome
they have a new fathead (lifesize cutout for the wall) that I’m thinking about getting
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I could put it next to my Pujols one
but it would clash with the rest of the cardinals room
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Sounds like you need to build another room.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
my other room became the jungle themed nursery
I guess ninjas could hang out in the jungle…
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Not to get technical necessarily,
but ninja are Japanese and Lee is Chinese. Although, I think it would be safe to say that bad-asses hang out in the jungle.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
i like the lineup too
I thought tony would of used Norris as an excuse to play Stav,Miles or Winn, considering how poorly the regulars have hit him. I knew Norris had shut us down a few times but 4-0 with a .36era is ridiculous. Esp considering his career stats (8-8 with a 5+era). Norris has the Cardinals to thank for even having a job in the bigs right now….and that’s a fact.
by mick311 on Jul 9, 2010 4:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I just want to let the petty, mean side of me shine through for the moment
After all the BS hype that the Mariners got this offseason and the groveling that occurred from the media at the feet of Jack “Our Savior” Z., I am thoroughly enjoying the dismantling of the team after it’s collapse. Add in the fact that the Mariners blogger are, on balance, incredibly arrogant (with one exception) and this has all felt great. I revel in this kind of schadenfreude.
Now, if the Cardinals can also win some games, that would be appreciated.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
Yeah...
See, I thought the M’s had a pretty good offseason and put themselves in a position to be respectable if all breaks right. I figured they’d need a big bounce back from Bradley and an offensive boost from F-Gut to really compete, but Jack Z did a good job getting them out from some bad deals and stuff. But then this massive fawning over all that was Mariner began and I began to think… “You know, this is a bit excessive. Clearing some payroll space, bringing in Cliff Lee and hoping Milton Bradley can figure it out is all nice, but this isn’t an awesome team or anything. They were terrible a few years ago, kind of lucky last year, and still have no exciting middle-of-the-order bats and no decent prospects and not much pitching beyond The King and Lee. Let’s hold the horses here…”
Well, here we are today… the M’s suck, and suck terribly. 6th best organization in baseball because we have a good GM and… and…
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 9, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
bedard was hurt, right?
and figgins and lopez tanked, wilson got hurt – it was a winnable division. still don’t understand why they didn’t keep beltre, put figgins on second (where he ended up anyway), and move lopez to first rather than go with kotchman there. i was pretty sure they would do that.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the lee deal was great for them though
they received more than they gave.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
bad news here.
per Ken Rosenthal tweet: #Reds have spoken “extensively” to M’s about Lee over last 48 hrs, source tells FOXSports.com’s Jon Paul Morosi. #Rangers also in. #MLB
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
Jocketty
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Smoak is out of the lineup tonight for the Rangers
Could be coincidental
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i'd rather see lee go to the yanks or rangers
over the reds. ANYWHERE but cincy.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
Nobody wants Chris Davis
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
they did, which is why the m's acted like they were going with the yanks deal
until the rangers acquiesced and gave them smoak instead.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Rangers
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Great Norris stat of the Day:
He is averaging 10.51 K/9. This leads all pitchers with 10 or more starts.
- is Jered Weaver at 10.17.
- is Tim Lincecum at 10.11.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
F'in SBN...
I typed “#2” and “#3” for Weaver and Timmay.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Heh. Those were from their game notes yesterday afternoon.
Kershaw pitched last night to move up the list.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
he was great too
still the best lefty in the league, with lee staying in the AL
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
he secretly changed it to chuck, i'm sure
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
As in David Stefan
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
i have learned deal done with #Rangers, Smoak and 3 others for Lee and reliever Mark Lowe #Rangers, #Mariners
Just beat me heh
I hope this is true. Just no Reds.
....my quick smells like french toast...
Twitter: @mstreeter06
Literally beat me by like 2 secs
I was just about to push post and it showed up. We on top o things.
....my quick smells like french toast...
Twitter: @mstreeter06
uh, streeter...
Twitter Patrol!
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
I was going
For something similar to So Patro. My buddy and I made a sign for So Taguchi that said SO PATRO!
....my quick smells like french toast...
Twitter: @mstreeter06
nice!
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
Just curious,
but since Smoak is going to the M’s, is his new walk up music going to be “Smoke on the water”?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah,
It was just on the radio, but no way could I pass that one up.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
per mlbtr
The Rangers will acquire Lee and Mark Lowe for Justin Smoak and three others, according to Sherman (via Twitter). Lowe will miss the rest of the season with back surgery, so his inclusion in the trade is puzzling. Rosenthal confirms that the Rangers are acquiring Lee and says the Mariners are sending cash
(put in shortly before 4 PM eastern)
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
Fantroodstic.
(too much?)
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Tired of the yearly TESS. I blame Tony.
you know it is sunny and warm in colorado today Spants
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Causation correlation and all that
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Then who do I blame for a rainy start to july?
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
TLR?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
The Colonel?
well it was the Giants who opened july here, but in my experience C.TW can be blamed for a sudden downpour of HR’s , but has yet to be linked to cold fronts
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Yep. I vacationed here when I was a kid and I've been yearning to return ever since.
I’d like to live here, but…
Regression, bitches.
Nice
did you hit Rocky Mountain National Park?
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Yes, but sadly a storm rolled in.
There was so much fog that we couldn’t see anything except the tundra right in front of us.
Regression, bitches.
that place never ceases to amaze me
living here it is easy to take it for granted but one drive down Trail Ridge Road cures any complacency
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Seattle kicking in $2.5 million to get a better package of prospects
Funny story: I was standing by the accounting guy while this was announced. He looks at the report in his hands and jokes, “We don’t have this money! Intern, you’re fired!”
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
What if he wasn't kidding?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 9, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a very good haul, imo
- Shore up 1B for the next 6 seasons – check
- Young power arm with high upside – check
- Two middling prospects with low ceilings – check
That’s probably as good as they could have done.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Rangers have called 5:00 P.M. CT press conference. #Mariners
According to @LoneStarDugout it looks like Josh Lueke and Matt Lawson aside from Beavan among the prospects going for Lee
better than the reds for sure
and dan, send your advice to tlr return receipt and signature required!
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
So I just talked to the accounting guy here about a question I know we've all wondered
He says that FOR THE MARINERS, if we go over-slot for a domestic draftee, we will have less money for an international signing. Not saying that this is true for the Mariners, but just food for thought
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
you mean cardinals?
mo and dewitt have always said that those funds are separate, but who knows
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Errr yeah, that should be the Cardinals at the end
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
yeah, they say that
but hasn’t everyone always thought that a joke?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I might cry if this happens
Porcello maybe for Haren? Would that be the most annoying non-Cardinals transaction in history?
Not afraid to nitpick
come on mo! jump in and offer kozma!
by DanUpBaby on Jul 9, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'd like to make a comment here
but my Chuckie Fick hate mail needs some attention.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
jiminy
8 problems into this section in my math book and every single problem has been about a ferris wheel so far. what
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
oh cool
the bottom half of this ferris wheel goes down into the ground!
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
So, before I went to see Predators
I heard that the Yankees deal to Lee is imminent, so then I left. I come back, and apparently the Rangers have swooped in and offered a superior package with Smoak (I never thought they would ever trade him) and other guys.
Baseball is confusing man.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I like this deal a lot for the rangers
Chris Davis is still vaguely interesting and given Smoak’s struggles this year they’re not losing any 2010 production while making their rental.
I don't know about Chris Davis
He’s starting to look like more of an AAAA type guy for some reason. Although, he does have better defense than Smoak. I just think that Smoak is a better contact hitter, and has more talent, but that’s my take.
If I were the Rangers though, I would have probably asked for Russell Branyan as well, just to take Smoak’s spot for the year in case Davis bombs.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Really?
I’m not sure I like this one bit from their side of things, tbh. The Smoak/Davis angle is a positive, but the fact they’re not in a super-close pennant race (at least as it currently stands) seriously reduces Lee’s value to them, IMO, and he’s also not replacing a replacement-level starter IIRC as they’ve got a bit more depth than most. Add in the fact that at least one if not two of the throwins are decent prospects and I’m not sure I’m very keen on this.
All else aside, this package is a fair bit more than the Ms sent to Phillie to land a full season of Lee. Jack Z made out like a bandit on this one.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 9, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
While I agree with your assessment
I don’ think they were focusing squarely on the regular season when they acquired him. Do you think they have the staff to compete with the likes of the Yankees and Red Sox? I sure as hell don’t. While many of their SP’s are above average, they aren’t elite. Colby Lewis, Tommy Hunter (Good few outings after being injured most of the year), and CJ Wilson have had pretty good seasons, but nobody would absolutely want to depend on them as their ace if they had the choice. Lee is the ace that the staff will desperately need come October, when they will go up against CC, perhaps Lester and Verlander, etc.
However, they won’t be able to resign him at all, which is one of the negatives of the deal, due to problems with ownership, so the Yankees can just pluck him from there if they really need to.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
so? everyone knew he'd go to the yanks eventually
the rangers just decided to go for it, and not have to face him in the playoffs.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think they've soured on Smoak a little
and he’s the only guy they gave up in their top 15 prospects. I mean, he’s a big chip, but not as big as someone like Neftali Feliz would have been.
They still have Davis and also have Mitch Moreland, who most scouts seem to really like. I think their whole goal was to get a rental that didn’t hurt them much this year without giving up their top 3 pitching prospects. If that’s the case, then they definitely win this trade, since they were able to make it while holding onto Feliz, Martin Perez, and Tanner Scheppers.
This might be the rare deal that’s a win-win. The Mariners get a first baseman they desperately need, and the Rangers get Lee and keep him from going to another contender. The Rangers must really have soured on Smoak to trade him in the division though.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i don't think they soured on him
in fact he was the deal-breaker until the m’s used the yanks offer as leverage to get who they really wanted, which was smoak. they weren’t really looking to raid texas’ pitching anyway. they pretty much had smoak as their top prize on the list, so they won in that sense.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
jack z made out in comparison to amaro being taken
and i think the rangers are trying to win more than a pennant, which was no sure thing in itself, imo, if they did nothing and the angels did.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
well, got my proxy rolling with time to spare
let’s get these stupid astros
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
p.s.
reds up 3-0 in the top 2. runners at first and second, no one out, phillips batting
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
votto walks,
bases loaded infield single for gomes
4-0 reds
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
the phrase Poop Up while a typo made me LOL
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Okay boys
Bud Norris throws a 1st pitch strike only 56% of the time. Do not chase on the 1st pitch that’s all I ask. And pretend that you’ve seen a slider before.
Not afraid to nitpick
"And pretend that you’ve seen a slider before."
If only someone would tell this to Alfonso Soriano.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
The "Nick Stavinoha is Getting Lucky AND Not Getting Results Watch"
.265 .307 .361
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jul 9, 2010 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Jon Jay deserves his extended look in the majors.
Hopefully he gets all the starts while Luddy is on the DL
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
Hopefully, if he keeps producing, he'll have some trade value?
Or maybe… Luddy will have trade value?
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
we don't need a prospect
we need an mlb pitcher, badly.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Ohhhh Tony...
Stavinoha is terrible… And that fromhisknee HR doesn’t change that… Get him the fuck out of here ASAP…
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 10, 2010 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions
will there be a game thread?
i’m gonna be pissed if i can’t bitch about tlr in real time!!
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
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