Good Morning! Overflow Thread
by DanUpBaby on Jul 7, 2010 5:23 AM EDT
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PrintOur Robot Moderator made a cogent point on Twitter: Yesterday's game thread, about a game that I believe was postponed by rain, is not the best place for us to continue to chatter while queueing up for the red baron's Wednesday post, which is the actual cure for what ails us. So for the morning crowd, I present this overflow overflow thread.
words words words words—wait, no. Here's a funny thing tom s. wrote, bleeped out for basic cable:
the american expletives corporation regrets to report that its midwestern group has experienced a sudden and unanticipated supply shortfall. We look forward to giving our best customers a full supply of our finest products like "[forget] [seed] [forget] ryan franklin" and "aaron [forgetting] miles for [pete's] sake" as early as friday.
In the meantime, we ask our customers to consider one of our supplementary products, like the thousand gross of "tarnation!"s we've had stored since 1957. Have you ever considered a "dagnabbit"?
We regret to say further that we cannot promise that rolling [expletive]outs will not occur in the midwest region between now and october or until jeff [suppan]'s retirement, whichever comes first.
We look forward to serving you in the future and apologize for the inconvenience.
I can also offer you a brief story about Edgar Renteria leaving a hotel because it was haunted.
In the event of the red baron posting in the morning, this thread stands as a solemn memorial to a game that never happened.
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The expected happened
Hopefully, many others also made much money off the collapse. Face it, they never should have been leading a game started by the Hawk and our trusty closer was only balancing out the universe.
Meanwhile, the vastly superior Reds lost!
yeah, santana pitched a great game
we dodged a bullet there, but how long can we keep dodging bullets?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
HOW DID WE DODGE A BULLET?
By blowing a 6 run lead?
by vivaelpujols on Jul 7, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe he was referring to the Reds loss.
Baseball makes the world go 'round, or at least in my world it does.
by Whiteyballer on Jul 7, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, so how did we dodge a bullet?
Are the Reds so good that whenever they lose we should breathe a sigh of relief? They got 3 hitted by Johan Santana, I find it hard to see the bullet dodging aspect of that.
maybe my terminology was off
just saying it would have been worse to blow that game after a reds win, not that the reds should beat santana. piss-poor late-night phrasing on my part.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah, probably so
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I have a feeling
That non game, game thread was epic . I’m kind of afraid to go look though.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Game...? what game? I thought it was the all-star break already!
Oh you guys, ahahahaha…ha….ha
uncontrollable sobbing MUTHAFUCKARZ
dangnabbit
that *is* the same hotel Brendan Ryan deked CNN with
one of the many ‘disagreements’ he had with Tony.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
references
I still would like to re-rec yesterday’s day thread for classicness.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jul 7, 2010 7:46 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Brad Penny
And now Brad Penny is in stage four of his arm falling off. Stage one, vague, non-DL requiring injury. Stage two, injury lingers, placed on DL. Stage three, encouraging rehab, all signs point to yes. Stage four, just kidding, he needs an MRI 2 fucking months late. Stage 5, requires surgery but he’ll be back for the push at the end. Stage six, just kidding, shame on you for believing any of this. Enjoy Jeff F. Suppan. Plumbing flows away, and away must be Cardinal nation. Today more than others, six is a terribly serious number.
by ajo080s on Jul 7, 2010 7:48 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
whenever the FO says "day to day" or "close to returning"
Just assume hepatic liquefaction. It usually is close to but not quite that bad, and so you’ll be left feeling mildly encouraged
so, basically, he's two stages away from looking like this guy
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 7, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait, he's got a bomb strapped to his arm!
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
mark mulder
“throwing off the mound next tuesday”.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 7, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
cue National Geographic.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
no, he pitched after that
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah. he pitched two warm-up pitches to Molina and was yanked.
J Pineiro B Penny 3 2 123 8-4 Brad Penny homered (Fly). David Freese scored. Yadier Molina scored. Skip Schumaker scored. 3.26 0.73 89.5 % .315 3.36 J Pineiro F Lopez 3 2 ___ 9-4 Felipe Lopez homered (Fly). 0.13 0.09 93.5 % .040 1.00 J Pineiro R Ludwick 3 2 ___ 9-4 Ryan Ludwick walked. 0.08 0.09 93.8 % .002 0.12 J Pineiro M Holliday 3 2 1__ 9-4 Matt Holliday reached on fielder's choice to shortstop (Grounder). Ryan Ludwick out at second. 0.17 0.21 93.3 % -.005 -0.21 M Boggs M Napoli 4 0 ___ 9-4 Mike Napoli doubled to right (Fliner (Fly)). 0.44 0.46 90.3 % .030 0.61
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ah, i was thinking the grand slam was against cincy the previous start
that’s when he got hurt, anyway – said he felt the discomfort the next day, and then again while warming up before the next (anaheim) game. i was just putting to rest this notion that the grand slam caused his injury, though i suppose it could have exacerbated the existing condition.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Wow.
I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue.
Since I’m on the east coast and went to bed with sweet dreams during the 7th, I missed the meltdown. Let me guess, 5 guys playing out of position by the 9th and LOOGYs pitching to half a dozen people? TLR’d?
Let me guess, 5 guys playing out of position by the 9th and LOOGYs pitching to half a dozen people? TLR’d?
Franlin’d actually.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Bummer.
I guess he was due.
Why was Jay taken out? I was in and out of the game and saw Jay’s hit. I thought he replaced Stav in right, but then before I signed off Winn was in right. Something happen that I missed?
so I am burning with curiosity. I *must* know
what will Trever Miller’s at-bat look like?
he’s the last of the regular bullpenners to go.
I would also appreciate a fanpost analyzing all our relievers and how they’ve fared after BP.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This one was on TLR
And a lot on Winn.
But TLR’s most boneheaded move was double switching in McClellan and Winn. Then pulling McClellan after the inning before Winn, or the Pitchers spot came up to bat. Then Miller failed to get an out and motte had to finish off the inning. (did a great job, allowed the runner from third to score, but that will happen when it’s first and third with no outs)
This resulted in both the bullpen and the bench being short. And Motte wasn’t avalible to come in and save Franklin’s ass again.
This.
TLR managed this game like it was tied, and not like his team was in control.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
I'm going to go with using Motte in the f'ing 7th.
Kmac should’ve been in, not Motte. If you have two closer types why not alternate them so they’re both available at the end of the game, just in case? And where the eff was Boggs?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 7, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
should’ve left Kmac the hell alone.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 7, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
He was handed a 7 run lead for the 7th.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
This is the part of having that many relievers confuses me.
If you’re going to carry that many, then break them down into squads. Have one group for one day and the next group for the next day. And unless your starter is pitching a CG shutout, use them. Everybody gets work, nobody’s getting run out everyday, and then if you have to use them in an emergency situation you have them.The way we are right now, we have two LOOGYs, two set-up men, and two closers, with a couple of extras. Otherwise, I really don’t see the point.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 7, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
part of the problem is the LOOGYs didn't OOGY.
same with the other roles. when one guy goes down, the other guy is there to step in.
now, it may be a sucky plan, but what happened is they deviated from the plan. relievers were pulled while they were still doing well, and kept in while… well.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Pork Chop OOGYed(sp?) in the eighth.
And had he left K in for the 7th we wouldn’t have needed Motte, or Motte could’ve come in for the 9th. Basically, we’re talking in circles with all the woulda, coulda, shouldas.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 7, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
true enough
mostly I’m addressing the assigned squad idea
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Yeah, I know it's kinduva crackpot idea.
But Miller hadn’t pitched in almost a week & Franklin hasn’t been getting used regularly lately, it was about the only idea I could come up with to get everybody PT on a regular basis without just wearing them down.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 7, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
What confuses me is that KMac was considered to be a potential 5th starter...
…and he can’t relieve for more than an inning?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
To be honest
I think the only real criticism on TLR is that he didn’t yank Franklin earlier, surely? And possibly (as RB states in his post today) using non-mop-up guys like Motte when we had a 7 run lead.
We were 6 or 7 runs up when the double switch happened. I really don’t think taking out Jay for Winn in that situation or, hell, taking out Jay for ME would really negatively impact our win expectancy very much at all. Presumably in the inning started by Miller, it’d have been Motte throwing to the righties anyhow. Slightly dubious bullpen management overall but I’m not convinced it really matters when you’ve got such a huge lead. The onus really should be on using as few key bullpen guys as possible (which he didn’t really achieve, but nvm) to get to the end of the 9th. The win really should take care of itself otherwise someone (or in this case 2 or 3 guys) have performed atrociously.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 7, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Something about using 5 relievers to "protect" a 4-run-soon-to-be-a-7-run lead.
Yanking Franklin really isn’t in the discussion if TLR manages the game like it was a blowout instead of a tie.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
my biggest concern right now is not his hitting
which, I must admit, is about the same as it’s always been (lots of slappy singles and basically replacement level, but OK if he could actually field a premium position) but the fact that he is, in 2010 form, probably one of the least mobile middle infielders I have ever seen in my life. Seriously, if you make Skip Schumaker look good, you have no business playing second base on a major league team, even if you hit like Dan Uggla…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 7, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I feel blessed
Just for missing the game last night. I cracked up seeing the box score. Pretty impressive for a team to put up 9 runs in a inning.
this game is seriously just lolz at this point, like i said last night
after all that, it’s still just one game. for all intents and purposes, we can say we lost the game 3-2 on a dinky coors field walk off homer to seth smith.
POSITIVES!
1. the offense scored nine runs last night. that’s right, NINE!
2. matt holliday hit a three run home run!
3. everyone (i’m assuming) will get out of bed this morning and live another day.
4. jaime pitches tonight!
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 7, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
It's one game that was dead and buried.
And then Franklin.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
agreed
by the time seth smith made contact, i was laughing- used all my bad words earlier.
you tip your cap to the victors, and run your best lefty-starter out today.
by baked mcbride on Jul 7, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Hoped for Roster moves
DFA – Miles & Stav. Winn (upon Ludwick’s return).
DL – Franklin. What else explains the meltdown? I’ll be shocked if this doesn’t happen.
Promotion – Craig, Mather, Salas. One of these (or Otta) must go when Freese returns.
Closer — Motte/Boggs combo
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
on defense.
can’t put more pressure on your pitchers.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Overall, yes...
…but last night disaster can be blamed on udder folks (Franklin, Winn, Miller, TLR) for a change. I’m not blind to The Mascot’s woes, but he did all that cud reasonably be expected of him, or any udder MI on our team, last night.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I don't think the OP was talking solely about last night, though.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Holy Shit
Ryan Franklins WPA last night was -.990. I have never seen one that low for a single game let alone a single inning before in my life.
it's what happens when you single handedly cost a whole team a game
which is basically what happened. blame randy winn and his deep playing right field all you want (and besides, are we that sure that winn decided that on his own. chances are, it was another tony mismanagement), but this one was ALL franklin’s fault.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 7, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Obviously Franklin had nothing working last night
But sounds like TLR over managed the game than backed himself in a corner.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 7, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
yep
He only had Boggs in the pen, with Skippy, LaRue, and Ryan on the bench. When Ryan started melting Tony didn’t make the move to Boggs. More than likely because he was his last bullpen arm and the memory of that 20 inning game.
Ottavino wasn't available?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Ok. Granted he might not have been effective either,
but I have to think in a meltdown situation doing anything to disrupt their momentum would help.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
the point is to win before it gets to 20 innings
you never manage for a 20-inning game…except tony
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
oh, it was all TLR
i’m just sayin’ that as it played out, it was all franklin’s fault. now the only reason it’s all franklin’s fault is because tony let it happen, therefore it’s all his fault too.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 7, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
winn didn't decide his positioning on his own
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Presumably that game where Chien Ming Wang gave up like 22 runs last year?
I’m guessing his WPA must’ve been somewhere near -1.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 7, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
unless he gave them up after getting a big lead, it'd only be -0.5
by brackenthebox on Jul 7, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
One possibility, maybe not a probability
A pitcher is handed a two-run lead, promptly gives up four runs. Then the offense returns the favor and again the pitcher gives it right back. Maybe do that 3 times total, or drop the run differential to one each way to make it more likely, and you could rack up some negative WPA real quick. Take a look at Mulder’s turning point start in May ’06.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
Vocabulary options
I believe the words we could have used last night are (quoting the inimitable, irascible Yosemite Sam) razzle-frazzle and frickin’-frackin’.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
by Solanus on Jul 7, 2010 9:05 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
...Colby had nothing to do with it?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Leach captures the overmanaging pretty well.
A seemingly minor sequence of moves before the ninth set the stage for the meltdown. With a four-run lead in the sixth, La Russa double-switched Kyle McClellan into the game, expecting to get four or more outs from the right-hander. But the sixth was tricky for McClellan, who allowed a double and a walk. Instead of leaving him in, La Russa pulled him in favor of Trever Miller to open the seventh. Miller didn’t retire either of the two batters he faced, forcing the manager to call on Jason Motte. Reyes pitched the eighth and started the ninth.
Had the Cards not used Motte, he would have been available to come on for Franklin as the ninth slipped away. As it was, none of the available relievers — Mitchell Boggs, Fernando Salas and possibly Adam Ottavino — fit the bill for the manager as someone to bring in for his closer.
Moreover, the other half of the switch brought in Winn for Jon Jay, himself a sub for Nick Stavinoha. Winn’s positioning — admittedly, likely not his decision — surely contributed to Gonzalez’s single dropping in, because he was nearly at the warning track. And his error on Giambi’s single allowed Gonzalez to score all the way from first.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
fernando salas, minor league closer
does not fit the bill for someone to bring in as a closer?
And, erm, as above, I don’t think he’s on the roster anyhow…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 7, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Wish we could blame that non-call on what should have been a third strike.
But that would have only given Franklin the 2nd out. Something tells me they still would have found a way to lose that game.
by Cardfanintherock on Jul 7, 2010 9:18 AM EDT reply actions
The strike zone was so erratic that I don't blame the calls
This was pure overmanaging of a blowout. Sigh.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Frankie is notorious for letting the bad calls get to him.
unfortunately it’s not like Yadi could have even shown him the shape of the strike zone.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Arrgh!
…to quote Charlie Brown. This team is so hard to watch. I love this team on paper, but hate it on the field most nights. I have been trying to figure out why. I don’t remember a Cards team in a very long time being this bad with givashitability. Their fundamentals are awful. Their baserunning has to be pushing 60 outs they have run into this year on the bases. Their defense is bad. Not just the errors, but the plays that should be made that aren’t. The cutoff men that get missed. The infield hits that should be errors. Their hitting with runners in scoring position. Their strikeouts at the wrong times. And did Yadi make more outs in June than he had at bats? (If not, it had to be close…it sure seemed like he hit into more DP than he had hits.)
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
Actually that would be "AUUUUUUUGH" in CB speak.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 7, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
listless, lethargic, whatever you want to call it, that is us
no sense of urgency whatsoever.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I went to bed when we were up 9-2
I woke up to a serious dose of “you’ve got to be [forgetting] kidding me!” and “[tarnation]!”
Also, one of the last things I said about the game before we turned off the TV was “why the heck would Tony bother putting in Winn for Jay? Why not just keep Jay in?”
Blargh.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
This sums up my night, as well.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 7, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
This is basically what I did too...
I only learned of the meltdown at about 6:30 this morning. I took my dog for our normal walk, then grabbed our Post Dispatch from the steps. I don’t usually do much with it, but I thumbed through and saw the headline about how the Cards melted down or something.
I had the EXACT same reaction…“you’ve got to be f&^king kidding me.” I thought it was an old newspaper from some other time this season. I mean, it was 9-2 when I went to bed! No way they blew that, right?
Hope
I actually hoped they would lose that game at the very end last night because I was hoping that it may actually wake these guys up. They are playing like a team that has already clinched the division and is just playing out the rest of the season. This is a danger with keeping such a high percentage of the roster intact from season to season. Walt Jocketty used to say that you need to turn over a chunk of the roster every year to keep the clubhouse fresh. This one seems stale and most of it will be back next year.
I hope this was the wakeup call they needed. If not, Mo needs to make some sort of deal to shake this thing up.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
Bullpen
This is the team’s real weak spot. Last night showed a glimpse. The hitting has been bad, but the players have the ability. The starting pitching has been very good, but is getting thin. The bullpen has been my worry since the end of last season. They have performed well for the most part, but Franklin always burns out by the end of August and I don’t trust any of the other righthanders in a tie ballgame or 1 run lead with runners on. The lefthanders have completely crapped the bed lately. I am excited about how much Motte and Boggs are improving, but it would be nice to have a steady veteran down there should this team make it to postseason.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
i disagree
the bullpen has been one of the teams bright spots. motte, mccellan, and boggs have pitched very well from the right side in addition to salas when he’s been called upon. franklin (take away 2-3 night of total suck) has been above average. you are semi-correct on the lefties, as reyes was “good” when he was getting lucky and he’s not getting lucky anymore. miller is down a notch this year, but he’s still been mostly reliable.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 7, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Another thing.
There is no comparison between this bullpen and the ‘08 bullpen, which was a big problem. This year’s ’pen is much better than that one.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The individual pitchers in our bullpen is not the problem.
It is the usage of them, at times, that is the problem. We are in the top 10—even after last night—in bullpen ERA. As the folks above have pointed out, TLR’s overmanagement of the bullpen earlier in the game put him in a position where he felt he had to leave Franklin out there because it was a “save” opportunity, instead of going with Boggs or Salas, even though Franklin clearly didn’t have it last night. (I did not watch, but the highlights show he threw some watermelons up there.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
what kills me beyond the usual
is Duncan went up there. They conferred long enough for the guy who plays an umpire on t.v. to break it up.
If Duncan is sanctioning this madness, I don’t know what else we can do.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
We will never know.
But, what we do know is that Duncan sees Boggs as a potential future closer. He has said as much, which is another reason why I don’t understand why Boggs wasn’t brought in to try and put the fire out. (The fire was not burning in the outfield, but on the pitcher’s mound.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I feel like this has been discussed a million times but....
Tony uses his numbers game and puts people in position to succeed…..BUT…how many times has this tactic also caused the Cardinals to lose baseball games?
I was listening to 101 ESPN yesterday afternoon on the way home from work and Jack Clark was on there talking. He says with young guys, Tony will play them, but then pinch hit for them in a key at bat, or pull them out for a defensive sub late in the game. What does that kind of thing have to do to a guys confidence? If I were the young player, I know I’d be trying (maybe even pressing) extra hard in the one chance I get in a key situation. That can’t lead to good long term success.
In summary, can’t TLR just let guys play? Baseball is complicated, but it’s not as complicated as TLR makes it. The numbers game that he is constantly playing…for all the good it does, I’m pretty sure it has pretty significant consequences as well (as we saw last night with Jay coming out of the game for a “defensive sub”).
and as someone mentioned above.....
we were up by 7 effing runs…..why in the world is he playing like we are tied? If there was a time to let the young guy stay in…isn’t that it?
Jay came out in a double switch, didn't he?
and TLR can’t resist the ol’ double switcheroo. jay’s a much better defender than Winn anyway.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 7, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I've Decided that Last Night's Loss Needs to be Cowpletely Forgotten....
…so, here is one of my Everyone’s a Critic stinky moovie reviews – this one is for Spiderbabe (2003)!
:=8D
Misty Mundae Gits Nekkid! Again!!!
:=8D
If you like vapid, brainless fun, filled with T&A, fake sex, and a healthy slice of comic book silliness, then “Spiderbabe” is yer twisted cup of moo juice.
:=8D
Yes, we’re talking cheap, absurd soft-porn by folks who just don’t care. And this is a good thing, provided you weren’t expecting remotely concerned with a plot, at least not one which requires a brain.
Misty Mundae (“Shock-o-Rama”, “Lord of the G-Strings”, “Bikini Girls on Dinosaur Planet”) plays one Patricia Porker, sweet, glasses-wearing nebbish chick-a-dee with a crush on boy-toy Mark and a penchant for off-the-cuff lesbian sex with strangers. She gets bitten by an ‘experimental spider’, and becomes a crime-fighting superhero. Well, no, not really, its just an excuse for Spiderbabe, Patricia’s alter-ego, to engage in posey, ‘Penthouse’-type sex with anything that mooves. Or doesn’t moove.
Opposing Spiderbabe is Julian Wells (“Bite Me”, “Dr. Jeckyl; and Mistress Hyde”, “The Erotic Diary of Misty Mundae”) as Femtilian, cowplete with fake British accent and a prodigious lesbian appetite every bit as mindless as Spiderbabe. It’s not exactly clear why Femtilian is an enemy, or what her fiendish plan is, but the fact is a superhero requires one, and so hey-presto. And since Spiderbabe is sexy and likes anonymous simu-sex with pretty ladies, well, then Femtilain must be like that too, only EEEEEvil.
There are udder, minor characters as well, but let’s face it, this is a Seduction Cinema classic designed to please the ever-widening hordes of Misty Mundae fans who have no udder purpose in life than to see our lovely Ms MM git nekked and have simulated soft-porn sex with some jiggler with massive, fake milk bags. Not that there’s anything wrong with this, the MooCow is not here to judge, folks…
Let’s face it’: an erotic spoof needs only two things: humor and lots of udder action. We get generous portions of both here. Director Johnny Crash (“New York Wildcats”, "That 70’s Girl) is a film editor and cinematographer for Seduction Cinema who gets a turn behind in the director’s chair every now and then. He tries to give his paper-thin characters something to do between soft-porn scenes which vaguely revolves around Spiderbabe and her crime-fighting duties, but moostly its a bunch of silly filler made to link the soft-porn scenes together. So, we got plenty of udder-n-butt action.
These simulated sex scenes are about as mindlessly casual as any you’d find in a real porn flick: nameless characters who serve no udder purpose than to get nekkid show up, do their soft-porn thang, and then poof again, never to re-appear in the narrative again (what narrative?).
The special effects are laughable, being of the very cheap and obvious ‘green-screen’ variety, and the action is stagy, forced, and clearly done for humorous effect. Obviously the producers don’t mind – and they cownt on you not minding either.
There are many throw-away lines and give-away names, so the humor is there as well, although at times the film feels as if it were written by a 10 year old boy with a potty mouth and an unhealthy obsession with lesbian sex.
I dunno, this sort of thing gets pretty old pretty quickly, and if Misty Mundae were not involved frankly the film would have no life whatsoever. But the truth is our divine Ms MM does bring a spark of charm, wit, and energy to the film, and you can’t help but cheer Spiderbabe on, whether she’s pasting an-udder bad guy with her spider strength or engaging in yet an-udder round of anonymous soft-core lesbian snuggles. I guess its time to come out of the closet: the MooCow IS a Misty Mundae fan, god help me.
Anycow, if a little (ok, a LOT, actually) of titillating T&A doesn’t bother you, and you can overlook an extreme lack of plot, threadbare basic production, and some really cheesy acting, then “Spiderbabe” is worth a look. Just watch out for those radioactive super spiders…
;=8)
http://www.everyonesacritic.net/movie_review.asp?ratingid=919428
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
flagged for copyright.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Time for some trades.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I think Penny and Lohse are both done for the season,
so, and not that SPing has been the biggest issue this year, getting another SP to replace Soup/Hawk is pertinent. Whats the market for Westbrook?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I thought I read/heard something
that Westbrook was “off the block.” Or maybe that was Millwood…crap, I forget.
millwood off the market
because there is no market. westbrook available for rent, and then the indians probably resign him in the off-season – not that that matters to us.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
And how desperate do we
probably look to other GMs? I mean, we were (one of) the NL team(s) to beat in the preseason. We signed the offseason’s big ticket offensive player, we had 2 Cy Young candidates, an emerging superstar (Rasmus) and Albert Pujols.
And yet we’ve basically treaded water this entire first half. We had 1 good, solid month that looks more and more like the outlier. How much pressure is on Mo right now? I mean, he’s the one with his ass on the line – it’s not like anyone is gonna hold TLR accountable for any of this team’s failings. So, does the team’s lackluster play to date put Mo in such a bad position that he will do something, anything, to try to right the ship? And what will that cost us?
yes the worst move was putting motte in in the 7th
Boggs was available, with the big lead boggs should of pitched the 7th. But I don’t see y franklin got left in that entire inning. Franklin seemed like he would throw a few good pitches each AB but then he would hang a pitch up in the zone everytime. And it kept happening when he was ahead in the count! He just couldn’t keep it down. It was a combination of a few things, but keeping franklin in , and then randy winns defense in right was just horrible.
by mick311 on Jul 7, 2010 10:06 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Why not just run Boggs out there in the seventh?
This is what I fundamentally do not understand.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yea and the most annoying thing was that
After franklin faced 2-3 batters u could see he just didn’t have it (MAYBE BC HE THREW 7 Pithches the last 8 days!) But even still with a 2 run lead and an out tony didn’t seem to even consider bringing in boggs. It was almost like tony was scared COL would tie it n we would need boggs for later in the game n just hoped franko could get one more out. And its not like we would have been screwed if he put boggs in when it was tied either, the pitchers spot just batted and we still had jeff suppan available out of the pen.
by mick311 on Jul 7, 2010 10:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
the most frusterating play was Winn on Giambis hit
…WINN was playing so deep to prevent the tying run to score on a double. So giambi hits a hard line drive to right (that prob would of been caught if winn were playing normal depth) b
BUT then even despite playing deep to prevent the run from scoring Winn drops the ball, then tries to pick it up, drops it again, and the run scores anyway! That was the tying run and by that point it seemed pretty obvious 1. Franklin couldn’t get an out and 2. There was no way he was gona come out by that point.
by mick311 on Jul 7, 2010 10:12 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
For me, I don't get how the Gonzalez hit fell in.
Why on earth was Winn playing so deep for Gonzalez? At least, ostensibly, with Giambi up, he is attempting to cut off a double, as you point out.
Fourstick and I were texting last night and we thought Winn in for Jay was absolute joke. Jay is better than Winn at offense and defense, but especially defense. With that lead, run prevention becomes an even more important strategy.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
EXACTLY.
I was thinking the same thing! Why did he take out Jay. And yea the funny thing is Winn (who was literally playin 2 feet from the wall) was trying to prevent the double and then he couldn’t even field it to prevent the double anyway!
by mick311 on Jul 7, 2010 10:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Leach is going to ask
apparently they didn’t get an answer to that last night.
which is a big fat mistake, because now they can cook up some line to deflect or excuse it.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
winn plays where he is told
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Hey guys,
Do you remember back in spring training when Albert said this is probably the best and most talented team he’s had around him in all his years in St. Louis?
Where did that team disappear to?
RFL for GG!
Memphis and the the trainer's room.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
by TBender on Jul 7, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Perfect answer.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i'll take our injuries over the red sox
and probably the rocks too. we either don’t have their depth, or refuse to employ it.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Albert also said in that same interview
that all they had to do was put it together.
He wasn’t tempting GOB.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
im not sure how we bounce back from that loss...
I guess with hawk pitching we weren’t expected to win anyway, but usually when we put up a bunch of runs we go cold for a couple days. Garcia is gona have to have a huge night and if not there is gona be PANIC in st.louis. Does anyone know if how much if any of Pennys contract is incentive based? Do we save any money at all if he is shelved for the year?
by mick311 on Jul 7, 2010 10:25 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Baron's awake...
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
RB's thread is up.
Head over to it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
One of the advantages of being in your sixties is
that sometimes you fall asleep in the 7th inning. You wake up when the game’s long over, recall that your team was up by 7, feel good about that as you trundle yourself off to bed, and still feel good when you wake up in the morning, let the dogs out, take your shower, get dressed, go out with the dogs to get the paper, make yourself breakfast and break out the sports page. You look at the standings and see that your team is still 2 games out and assume that the Reds lost too. Then you see the Reds box score. Then you see your team’s box score. Yes there’s that moment when you think that maybe one of those baby aliens is going to burst out of your belly but you eventually realize that you were lucky. After looking at your team’s closer’s line you don’t even read the rest of the box score. You don’t want to know. You were mostly spared the pain of knowing. You’ve mellowed over the years. You’re nearing retirement. Maybe, if you put it off long enough, your team will be well by then. You’re a lucky old guy.
Just an idea.
One of the advantages of being in your sixties an alcoholic is that sometimes you fall asleep in the 7th inning. You wake up when the game’s long over, recall that your team was up by 7, feel good about that as you trundle yourself off to bed a bar, and still feel good when you wake up in the morning, let the dogs out, take your shower, get dressed, go out with the dogs to get the paper, make yourself breakfast a drink and break out the sports page. You look at the standings and see that your team is still 2 games out and assume that the Reds lost too. Then you see the Reds box score. Then you see your team’s box score. Yes there’s that moment when you think that maybe one of those baby aliens is going to burst out of your belly but you eventually realize that you were lucky. After looking at your team’s closer’s line you don’t even read the rest of the box score. You don’t want to know. You were mostly spared the pain of knowing. You’ve mellowed over the years. You’re nearing retirement re-drunkeness. Maybe, if you put it off long enough, your team will be well by then. You’re a lucky old drunk guy.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
by azruavatar on Jul 7, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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