Let's Talk About 2009
by azruavatar on Jul 4, 2010 1:57 AM EDT
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PrintA couple quick notes on the game yesterday and the present condition of the Cardinals:
- Carpenter looked pretty lost on the mound yesterday. His command was miserable with pitches missing well wide of the plate. The velocity was there (Steve Sommers tweets the curveball was a little flat) but he struggled to locate his pitches.
- Tyler Greene was 2-for-3 with a triple. Greene isn't without his warts -- he can be inconsistent on defense and he struggles to make contact -- but given the performances of Skip Schumaker and Brendan Ryan to date, this seems like an ideal time to get a look at Greene. At 26, he is what he is but what he is may be something approaching an average player.
- Randy Winn was 0-for-5. The logic of starting him (TLR told the media he was 4-for-12 against Parra) was bad and while Winn isn't a bad player, this wasn't the optimal situation to start him.
- I'm wondering is Rasmus 100%. I can't find any other reason why you start Nick Stavinoha yesterday. Rasmus struggled to stay in playing shape for the entirety of last year so it's not unreasonable to speculate on how he's feeling as we approach mid season.
- Joe Strauss made a salient point on twitter and I have to agree. The Cardinals have had some questionable DL management as of late seemingly to the detriment of the team. Freese's play in June was abysmal though it's hard to tell how much of that was linked to the injury. Ludwick was finally placed on the DL after working out on the treadmill. The problem I have is that these don't seem like isolated incidents but a pattern of how the Cardinals use the DL -- a day late and a dollar short.
Enough of that though. I've got the Matt Holliday trade on my brain today -- really Clayton Mortensen in particular. Jay Randolph Jr. made some remark about Holliday being more comfortable in the outfield -- it's only been a year, give Holliday a break! Clayton Mortensen pitched yesterday for the Athletics. The conversation came up a couple weeks ago on Future Redbirds and, rather than dwell on the 5-12 drubbing, I thought I'd take a trip down memory lane.
The 2007 draft was not a favorite for me. Selecting Pete Kozma, a perfectly fine draftee, in the first round felt like a reach. The Cardinals followed that up with Clayton Mortensen, a easy sign as a senior out of college. I thought it was a terrible pick and didn't shy away from saying so. I was wrong.
I softened up on Mortensen pretty quickly. The Cardinals rushed him to AAA in 2008 where he struggled with his command. The more I saw of Mortensen, however, the more I liked. In June 2009, one month before the Holliday acquisition, I wrote that Mortensen was really the top pitching prospect in the system (with a Jaime Garcia caveat). Featuring a strong groundball rate and an improved changeup, Mortensen had the makings of a nice mid rotation arm who would generate groundouts and not get pummeled by opposite handed hitters.
At the time of the Matt Holliday trade, I was driving to Springfield to see the S-Cards. I recall arriving at the ballpark and getting a text from one Mr. Alex Fritz (UID 196), which was followed by a "Crap, I don't have internet access right now." The trade to move Brett Wallace, Clayton Mortensen and Shane Peterson for Matt Holliday had gone down at the most inconvenient of times for me personally. Still, it was an interesting exchange of players with fans coming down vociferously on both sides.
If you want to walk down memory lane, read your timewarped comments: VEB Matt Holliday Thread 1, VEB 2, FR Thread 1, FR 2, FR 3
I wrote the third Future Redbirds thread at the hotel in Springfield in the wee hours of the night after the S-Cards game. This all took place shortly after the Chris Duncan trade (I can't believe it's only been a year since people who don't use their real name scooped Joe Strauss so badly) and I still think that month in 2009 was one of the most fascinating for the organization in recent history. With regards to Mortensen specifically, I made this comment:
I’m more perturbed by the loss of Mortensen than Wallace. Wallace didn’t have a place in STL to me but Mortensen clearly does. He’s the best long term pitching prospect in the system this side of a healthy Garcia. With an improved changeup to fend off lefties and a natural sinking fastball, he had the makings of a nice middle of the rotation pitcher. He doesn’t have the diversity of weapons of a Carpenter or Wainwright but there are similarities there for me and tutelage under those two (and Dave Duncan) seemed like a match made in heaven.
As the Cardinals rotation looks paper thin at the moment (Jeff Suppan, 2010 Cardinals starting pitcher), the team lacks a steady option from the young guns. Adam Ottavino has struggled with his command in the majors. PJ Walters stuff hasn't survived better hitters and Lance Lynn is having a rough season in AAA (5+ FIP). Meanwhile, in Sacramento, Mortensen has been putting together another solid year denoted by ground balls and a 2:1 strikeout to walk ratio.
Yesterday Mortensen put together 6 solid innings for the Athletics against the Cleveland Indians. The defense betrayed Mort but he struck out 7 and walked 2 while allowing 6 hits for 4 runs (3 earned). He did have more flyballs than groundballs (5 to 4) but he's shown a strong groundball rate this season at 54%. While he still has a long way to go to shown that he can stay with the big boys long term, he seems like he's about ready to take that step.
The Cardinals assembled a solid staff to start 2010 with 2 legitimate aces, two mid-rotation veterans and one talented rookie. A the middle of the year they find themselves with two young aces, a very good but not quite excellent Chris Carpenter and two injured arms. Brad Penny should bolster the rotation in the near future but whether that last spot goes to Jeff Suppan or Blake Hawksworth remains to be seen. I'd sure like to have Clayton Mortensen available in the minors right now.
I still like that trade though. I think the Cardinals with Matt Holliday are a more complete offensive team in spite of their recent struggles. Brett Wallace has managed just a .869 OPS in a hitters paradise. (Seriously, Las Vegas is an awesome hitters park. That OPS is nothing special there.) Meanwhile, Shane Peterson is mired in a .635 OPS for the AA club in the Texas League. The turmoil in the Cardinals rotation hasn't phased them much (their 5th in FIP and xFIP) but with all the banter of Dan Haren and Cliff Lee in the news recently, I'd feel much better about the safety of my Shelby Miller fabrege egg if we still had Clayton Mortensen in the system.
* * *
Thanks for indulging my off topic retrospective post for the day. Cardinals play Milwaukee at 1:15pm. Have a happy and carefree 4th of July!
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Mortensen was impressive
Made a mistake to jayson nix HR in the 1st, he settled down, then the OF defense let him down. Left with a no decision. FB was from 90-93 mph. Also had a hard breaking slider as his outpitch. I didnt see many changeup which seemed to be hisHis arm speed in his windup was most impressive, very fast. He is very skinny, they need to get him one some protein shake or meat eating diet plan.
i'm now kind of resenting your last post
where you called this season the beginning of the end for carp. that kind of outing was hard to watch (even if i barely watched it). i dunno if i’d rather this be an injury so i can rationalize away his bad outing or just accept that carp isn’t quite carp. (maybe i should toss in a third option there that this was one outing and is indicative of little to nothing)
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
i'm just going to ignore it
and hope he’ll bounce back just like garcia just finished doing. maybe A.D.A.M. will lock Carp in the video room and fix his arm slot…
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
I hope one of the other writers does him a proper historical writeup when he hits 1000 Cardinal innings.
I’m not a history baseball fan but that seems like such a significant and obvious milestone.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
More mismanagement
You know, sometimes when a player has an injury, and says he’s okay to play, a manager has to have the prudence to step back and sit them for a start or two for the team’s benefit as much as the player’s. This is doubly true when it concerns pitcher’s arms. A player almost always says he’s ready to go, unless it’s too serious to hide or ignore. But what to expect from a manger who:
1) Has Miles on the team, and starts him
2) Has Stav on the bench over Jay and Craig… which while this year’s numbers have been lucky for us, certainly not lucky enough to warrant a 5th spot in the order
3) Has been unable to make proactive or at least proper use of the DL, and that’s especially true with Freese’s ankle
4) Has simply not indicated that he understands that catchers do need to be spelled somewhat regularly in order to be effective
5) Seems quite comfortable in taking 2 out of 3 in every series, despite being in a tight division race
6) Seems to think Trever Miller is for pitching complete innings from time to time
…and this list could go on. Yes, this team’s desire to compete has been disappointing, yes, the team hasn’t been hot as a unit YET this year, yes Boog may actually be at a point where he could benefit from a spell in Memphis, and yes, APu is having a somewhat more human (though still tremendous) year — which incidentally, i think from some of his at bats, is because he’s drank his own kool-aid a bit and is trying to do more that he needs to rather than just let himself be Albert and take an extra walk
(that or he’s over-tweaked his swing) — anyway, my point being that while this team is underwhelming what it is on paper, this has to me one of the worst managerial jobs I’ve seen TLR do. I still can’t figure how Winn or Stav gets the start over Razman last night, left handed pitching or no.
Win or lose, this season is some of the most frustrating cardinal baseball i’ve ever had to watch. Sorry for the length.
Joe Morgan: "I've always said that the purpose of a minor league system is to help the big league club."
It's one start. One.
Let’s not overreact to one start. Even Ubaldo Jimenez has one bad start. Pre-2009 Carp had plenty of bad starts mixed in with consistent excellence the rest of the time.
I have seen no reason to believe that this is “the beginning of the end” for him, as his stuff has been as good as ever this season and his control has continued to improve as he gets older.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Yeah 2006 at Detroit anyone?
And hey everyone! I’ve moved into my new house. Owning a house is awesome! Happy 4th everyone
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 4, 2010 12:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Congrats...
Be sure to get back to us on how awesome it is when the furnace blows and you have to put five grand on the credit card…
Fire La Russa!
+1
not only was it just one bad start, it was one bad start after he threw one of the best games of his career just this week on wednesday.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 4, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
err--monday
sorry.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 4, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I would imagine cards could reacquire mortensen
For a AAA hitter like craig, anderson, green, or kozma
Mortenson for Kozma?
Done. Where do I sign? Would you like a bag of baseballs to commemorate the occasion?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 4, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sinch we're on the subject of Mortenson being a viable option for the rotation right now if he was in the farm
what about Brandon Dickson who is putting up a similar season in memphis?
Mortenson 54%GB/4.09 FIP/ 2.84BB/9 / 7.07K/9 / .82 HR/9
Dickson 54%GB/4.16 FIP/ 2.67BB/9 / 6.59K/9 / .71HR/9
I have no idea about the stuff of Dickson but if we’re talking about Mortenson in the rotation, I’m finding it hard to believe that we can ignore Dickson much longer if he continues his pace.
+1
Never seen him pitch but I’m puzzled why his name is never mentioned. Can only assume he’s been written off due to inferior stuff. Then again PJ has inferior stuff and he’s gotten his shot.
PJ has one great pitch though
Not sure that Dickson has any above average offerings.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Dickson has a sinker that I'd call above average
I wasn’t impressed with his secondary offerings when I saw him last year. Looking at his statistics though . . . he’s been consistently ok. He doesn’t strike out as many guys as Mortensen and doesn’t get quite as many groundballs. I’d be curious to see how he fares at the majors but not overly optimistic.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
It's been a year since I've seen him
so it’s entirely possible his breaking and offspeed stuff is either better than what I saw that day or has improved. If it hasn’t, then yes, some kind of slightly above replacement level groundballer is what I’d predict.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
so, holliday has a 1.302 OPS since the start of that oakland series
nice
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
i'll take a .979 OPS any day, every day thank you very much.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 4, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
How about
the .751 OPS since moving back to the four spot. I wonder if the nifty stance adjustment that was the “real” cause of the hot streak while batting in front of APu has somehow slipped?
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
you're givin' 'em hell, huh?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
IMHO
we just need Albert to be Albert!!!!
He's definitely been less clutch
1.74 WPA this year. Still top 20 in baseball, but he’s on pace for the lowest mark of his career.
The rest of his numbers are pretty close to his career averages. Slightly more strikeouts, slightly more walks (most of that is intentional though), fewer hits and a little bit less power. But overall, his wOBA is .20 points lower than his career average which isn’t that large of a difference.
All in all, a frustrating season, but I’m really not concerned going forward.
Anybody else
think Albert might benefit from a trip to Colby’s opthalmologist? His pitch recognition doesn’t seem to be as good as in year’s past.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
this.
i keep thinking to myself that he really sucks this year but i go look at his numbers probably 3-4 times a week to see if i’m really warranted in thinking that. time and time again, i’m proven that i’m not really warranted in thinking that. his SLG is a little bit down (less doubles are the main culprit for that), but his AVG, OBP, and WOBA are all close to his career numbers.
also, just noticed his BABIP is .297. that’s probably due a .15 or .20 increase at some point as well.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 4, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
also, just noticed his BABIP is .297. that’s probably due a .15 or .20 increase at some point as well.
If you look at his career numbers, his BABIP has been around ~.295 before, including last year when it was dead on the NL average at .299. I certainly would not expect it to go up, although it might.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
This
the clutchiness hasn’t been there this year. Take yesterday’s game, for example, Albert comes up in the third (or was it fourth) inning with the bases loaded and one out and the Cards down 6-0. I knew what was coming. Sure enough, 5-4-3. He later hits his 20th HR of the season. Switch those two results around and the game may (probably not, but may) have turned out differently.
He still has good numbers, but he’s striking out more than usual and, it seems to me, reaching for too many pitches that end up as easy grounders. I’ve thought all season that he’s been having trouble really seeing the ball like he usually does.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 4, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
overall, or in higher-leverage?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
thanks
any idea what the longest streak he’s ever had of not k’ing? just wondering if such a streak, say 20 or 30 ab’s w/o a k might put him right back to his usual rate.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
"very slightly" for some definitions of "very slightly"
That is, at a rate that is 24.2% higher than his career K rate.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
I agree,
24.2% is not a “very slight” increase. It does seem to have gotten better lately, but, again, I’m too lazy to look it up.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 5, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
When you are striking out 13.8% of the time compared to a career average of 11.2%, I would call that very slightly
Over 600 AB that’s a difference of 15 Ks.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 6, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i can see how when you don't k a lot a few additional would skew
the increased-k percentage. like i said above, a string of non-k at-bats would probably put him right back on average. i think it’s how he’s striking out that colors our impression – often chasing balls – and when also, such as at key times.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
that DP yesterday wasn't an easy grounder
he hit the crap out of it, and the 3B made the play because he was positioned in a quasi-shift, ~3 feet off the line. had he been positioned at a normal 3B double-play depth location, that’s a 2 or 3-run double.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
Yea,
he’s had a lot of those this year. I’m bad at finding/too lazy to look up stats, but I think it’s been mentioned that his BABIP is down this year.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 5, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh look Ubaldo's ERA is now 2.27
Who could have possibly predicted such harsh regression! There must be something wrong with his mechanics.
He now ranks 3rd in baseball (behind Jaime) and the difference between him and Wainwright is negligible.
Jaime's peripherals are practically identical to Jimenez's
Jaime has slightly more walks and fewer K’s, but more ground balls and fewer home runs.
xFIP’s are identical, and FIP’s and tRA’s are within .30 points of eachother.
Careful about tooting your own horn so soon...
Ubaldo was one of the best pitchers in baseball post break last year, so he could reel off another 35 straight innings of scorelessness at any time.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
HIS PERIPHERALS HAVE NEVER BEEN ELITE!
And now his ERA isn’t even that historically great. Is there even an argument that he has been better than Jaime Garcia this year? Why is everyone so in love with him?
are you adjusting his era, etc. for coors, as opposed to say busch?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
hey, you would know better than me
just asking – i have no idea what it’d be.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'm not making an argument for or against
I’m simply saying he was very good in August and September last year by FIP, considering that most of his starts were at home and he gave up a higher than average HR/FB during that time.
While his peripherals have never been elite, he clearly has elite stuff and can go on streaks where he’s absolutely unhittable. If you’re asking whether I’d rather have him or Jamie Garcia — well, I’ll take Ubaldo.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
ubaldo does pitch at coors, so he's going to give up a dinger here and there
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Coors isn't that much of a hitters ballpark anymore
And he also gave up 4 ER and a homer against the Padres in Petco.
rockies have a .143 OPS split home/away this year
.132 pts last year, .105 pts in 2008.
It’s still a hitters park, it’s just not that slanted towards HR’s; now it’s BABIP (close to 50 point spread).
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
It's the deep power alleys that have always given pitchers trouble there
Kinda like Busch II back in the 80’s with the turf — the huge, expansive outfield allowed the ball to get down and roll all the way to the wall. The deep power alleys at Coors allow a lot more base hits and doubles because there’s a lot of ground to cover for the outfielders.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
it is when we talk about the coors effect with their hitters
why not with their pitchers?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I actually do not make a big deal out of the coors effect for hitters
You must be thinking of the ESPN guys.
Many people on this board we’re arguing we shouldn’t get Holliday because of his extreme home/road splits. I argued those splits shouldn’t be expected going forward and we should simply park adjust his numbers.
wasn't implying you made a big deal of it
just a general “we”
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Well I don't know, I can only speak for myself
Coors field should be treated like any other field and numbers should be park adjusted.
ok, i didn't know you'd adjusted ubaldo's era for park effect
coors is a hitter’s park, right? and busch leans toward pitchers?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
busch is closer to neutral though, right, than to pitcher-friendly?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
no
it’s closer to petco than to neutral. Esp for right-handed hitters, which is one thing that makes Albert’s performance there so special.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
sounds like safeco
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
nothing wrong with his mechanics
something wrong with his manager, though, in his previous couple starts, riding him too long, especially when sick. that’s when all his runs were given up, his last inning, when he was clearly done and should have been pulled.
last night was on ubaldo though, as i just finished watching his performance. was his usual self for every inning but one, when he gave up all seven of his runs in the third. thought he might get out of it with only a couple runs allowed, but the rocks muffed the double play and then a misread ball dropped in center and ubaldo walked the next two batters – looked like he was going to k ishikawa to end it but for some reason threw a change that hung and was hit for a grand slam.
after the last 3 games i can’t believe ubaldo’s era is still that low. that’s about what i thought he’d finish the season with, so now it’s looking like he might even beat that. i don’t think he’ll end sub-2, but could be close. it’d be great if jaime could finish sub-3, but i’d have to take the over on that one.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'm sorry, I don't mean to try to poop on your parade
I can understand why you love Jimenez and your argument for him is not based off of ERA/W-L numbers.
It’s the people who argued that Jimenez somehow had a skill to produce an ERA 2 points lower than his FIP, and this skill somehow manifested itself in full in 16 stats that piss me off.
when do we get to the part where we quote ourselves from six months ago?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Whenever you want
In the depths of my hysteria, I can’t stop calling him "Matty Ho."
I gotta stop that…
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
That's still pretty damn funny.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 4, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice Post
I was unhappy with the Holliday trade as well at the time. Based on Wallace’s move to 1B (and my hope that Albert is still with the team beyond ’11) it was the right move. I was still clinging hopelessly to the belief that he would stick at 3B at the time of the trade (the same way I do as I look at Jon Edwards boxscore in Batavia for the third year in a row)…
No matter what the “experts” say about the Holiday contract, when I compare his $16M/year (after time value considerations) to Howard’s $25M I am still inclined to think we did a good job of negotiating and as a result came out ahead on the trade.
Holliday
No matter what the "experts" say about the Holiday contract, when I compare his $16M/year (after time value considerations) to Howard’s $25M I am still inclined to think we did a good job of negotiating and as a result came out ahead on the trade.
It’s not the rate, it’s the length. Seven years on an outfielder approaching 30 is a scary proposition, particularly in the current climate with tougher PED enforcement. He could turn into a pumpkin in four years, leaving the team with a couple of years and a lot of money in the proverbial bag.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 4, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
My issue with the trade
wasn’t what we gave up, but what we didn’t get – Cliff Lee.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
you mean the indians?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I would certainly have given more for
Lee than we gave for Holliday. Don’t know what the Indians were asking.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
me too
the phils gave like marson and donald, who i doubt are any better than anderson and greene, except perhaps by reputation. who else did they give – a couple minor league pitchers, right? i don’t think it was even drabek – he was in the halladay deal i believe. speaking of roy, funny thing is, had we not traded for holliday or lee last year, i bet we could have had halladay instead of the phils this off-season. the jays drafted wallace out of high school, and were pretty quick to acquire him from oakland, so i think they really wanted him. walrus and miller for 4 yrs. of roy, with craig in left and luddy extended? that’s 20 mil or so less than the holliday deal, plus the money saved from likely not signing penny, which together should more than make up for the (additional) loss of miller.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
We couldn't have traded Miller until June of this year
So this really doesn’t work.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
walrus would have been the centerpiece anyway
but miller could have been ptbnl, couldn’t he?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
we had carp, waino, and piniero
we didn’t have anybody on the team that could hit, besides pujols
thats why it was holliday and not lee
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
chemistry independent signing is ok
but, it was put ahead of apu, a slap in the face to him
put ahead of locking up ludwick, slap in the face
signing penny over piniero, and still looking up at lohse’s contract
whatever is going on with cloby (who knows)
tlr putting crappy lineups out too often and giving that pitcher the message “do what you can, not really important”
lots of things happened which might contribute to the chemistry problem, with the apu situation being the one that i believe causes the most trouble
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
what is the issue, if there is one, between apu and holliday?
i read an article from the belleville paper about this a month or so ago. the writer discussed how they aren’t really friends but didn’t give any specifics as to why there was tension. i know they are both deeply religious – could it be some rivalry about who is more holier-than-thou in the clubhouse? or maybe they are different religions and this is cause for underlying friction? or maybe they are best of friends and the article was pure speculation (i know i was a bit surprised to read that article, and both must have been somewhat aware of it)?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
to me it's simple
apu and carp were the “man” and had that status in salary
now mho has a bigger deal and that inevitable places him above the other two in the financial heirarchy
i think this affects the whole mix
at least luddy is stepping up and playing for his next contract
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
how is it a slap in the face
holliday was a free agent. pujols had two years left and repeatedly said he wasn’t in a hurry to sign. he even said they needed to sign matt before he would talk. luddy also had 2 years left on his contract
what is this i don’t even
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jul 4, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but almost any contract will look good next to howard's
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Regarding resting players instead of DLing them
1.) Holliday and Rasmus both set out several games due to being sore instead of being DL’d. Those instances worked in favor of the Cardinals. If you believe a player can be *healthy with just a few days of rest, you don’t place them on the DL.
2.) How much of Freese’s injury was known by the team. Freese has a history of not informing the team of injury. He also has a lot to gain by playing.
*during the course of a year everyone is going to play sore. There is a difference between being tired and sore than being injured. Though this isn’t always cut and dry. Sometimes a player my think he is score but instead is injured.
Also, if you sit a player for a few days and not play him
You can retro active the DL to their last played game
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 4, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
They saw Freese roll his ankle and limp off the field.
I’m also not sure what Freese gains by trying to work through an injury on the field.
There are occasions when a couple of days is all that’s needed but when you’re playing with a short bench and running out Winn and Stavinoha into your outfield on a semi-regular basis for a series, it’s time to pull the trigger.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
Same thing was trying to gain by covering up a car accident.
A contract? Playing time in the bigs? Given his age Freese has a very small window to make it. If he thought he could play throw it it isn’t a stretch to image him telling everyone he is fine.
yet
carp’s line drive hit
lohse’s line drive hit
same area
and no one is concerned?
tlr needs to tell carp or whoever, get checked out by the training staff. they are the one’s who should also be consulted. i find it hard to believe carp’s injury wasn’t a factor yesterday
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
both were similarly hit
but lohse’s was by a pitch when squared to bunt. then the same thing happened when he was on rehab assignment. hopefully carp doesn’t get hit again.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i'm not concerned that carpenter has the same injury as lohse
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
The game last night
So, I went to the game last night with my wife, and we ditched our two daughters with her parents. We thought it would be fun, and we had good seats. And then we get there and see that abominable lineup out there, watch an erratic-at-best Chris Carpenter, and see Bad News Bears-style defense in that four-run inning. Seriously, I felt like TLR decided to play the worst lineup he could and see if Carpenter could win the game by himself. Carp didn’t.
The sad thing is that after that four-run inning we knew the game was over. That lineup simply didn’t have enough punch to get back in the game. The only guys who were good bets to hit a HR, which you need to cut down those type deficits, were Pujols and Holliday. They were surrounded by slappy hitting slouches. Yes, I know, I know… Luddy is out so he can’t play. Yes, of course there was a LHP on the mound and TLR just has to put Rasmus on the bench to protect him b/c he’s young and would wilt and blah blah blah. Here’s the thing though, Cardinals… LHP or not Rasmus is the only really hitter on the team right now and he should play if he’s capable of doing so. Allen Craig has 10 HR and is slugging over .500 in Memphis. Is a Winn/Stav CF/RF combo really a better option than those two? Is that the best we can do?
For the record, I actually don’t think Winn is a bad option as the fourth OF’er, but it’s a little disappointing to look out there in the OF and realize he’s the second best player out there on a given night.
Oh, and the defense… That was positively painful. The pop-up to right, followed by Boog’s drop. Boog’s errant throw home. The ball Greene couldn’t just bend over and pick up. Plus, Stavinoha made a questionable decision to throw home when there was no cut-off man available which surrendered an extra base. So, there were three egregious and one kind-of-bad defensive events all in one inning. My wife and I did something we’ve never done at a Cardinals game… We booed the team as they came off the field. It was brutal. The best I can say about that game was that it’s over… and the fireworks at the riverfront were fun to go see too.
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by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 4, 2010 10:43 AM EDT reply actions
Damn
LHP or not Rasmus is the only really hitter on the team right now and he should play if he’s capable of doing so…
This should have read “LHP or not Rasmus is really the only other good hitter on the team right now and he should play if he’s capable of doing so.”
Oops.
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by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 4, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Winn has no business
playing CF anymore. He hasn’t been a viable CF since 2006 and he can’t hit LHPs any better than Colby. Once or twice a month at most.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
Even Stavinoha should play RF against LHP instead of Winn
He’s hit LHP well this year. Winn hasn’t.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
which brings us to what someone else brought up..
it’s here somewhere but…
This should have read "LHP or not Rasmus is really the only other good hitter on the team right now and he should play if he’s capable of doing so."
Was Colby capable of playing today? Last 4 or 5 times when he has missed multiple starts in a short period of time he hasn’t been ready to play.
Sadly
I predicted the “Randy Winn in CF” bullshit on Thursday prior to the start of this series. I’m really fucking sick and tired of watching our best hitter for the month of June get benched against LHP when he’s CRUSHING LEFT HANDED PITCHING THIS YEAR! I remember JD Drew getting starts against Randy Johnson all the time, and he never had a 1.000+ OPS against lefties in his entire Cardinal career. I’m fed up with this “well Winn is 4-12 against Parra” when his defense is awful in CF. The only defensible reason for Rasmus not to play is that he’s hurt, and in that case we’re really screwed as a ball club.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It is annoying to see him...
out of the lineup, but he’s on track for around 130 starts this year – up from 115 or so last year. I guess they think that’s all he can handle and it’s better to sit him earlier in the year and against LHPs.
Fire La Russa!
130 starts?
You realize that Albert started 130 games his rookie year, right? And that no other manager in their right fucking mind would limit a second year defensive stud at a premium position who’s on pace for 25+ homers and a .380-.390 wOBA to a certain number of games.
Just play him every day, give him a game off at the same rate that you give Pujols or Holliday days off. Colby should be playing just as much as those guys are. We shouldn’t have to wait for his 4th full season to see him get the opportunity to play 150 games.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
He seems quite...
a bit more frail than Pujols, or just about any other position player on the team. The kid is so dumb he eats a hole in his gut every night.
Fire La Russa!
true
every time over the last two seasons that Rasmus has missed mutliple starts in a short period of time it has been because he wasn’t ready.
Every time.
EVERY TIME.
Also every time his has happened VEB freaks out on how bad of a Manager Tony is. (even in a thread were we are whipping him for sending out “injured players”
Every time?
This isn’t true either. He sat multiple times last year against lefties, and he’s been shaded from them this year too at times. Your hyperbole doesn’t play here — it’s factually untrue.
If he’s truly hurt, fine, but I’d bet against that being the case on multiple occasions. Our manager plays whoever he wants, whenever he wants, damn the consequences, and damn anyone questioning it, because “HE KNOWS HOW TO MANAGE DAMMIT!!!”.
Part of me wishes that TLR had managed for George Steinbrenner back in the 80’s. My guess is that they would have fucking killed each other, but it sure would have been fun to read about in the NYT every day, when Don Mattingly gets the day off against a left handed pitcher in favor of some utility middle infielder who’s 4-12 against the guy pitching that day.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Me hyperbole? Have you read this thread?
it is a fact that everytime Colby has missed multiple starts in a short period of time it has been due to health reason.
The reason he missed several games earlier this year and is on pace to play in 134 games is because he was hurt. Like all non-holliday, non-pujols (and apparently now, non-molina) players he does get more days off than some other managers will give him. And these days off will come against lefties, instead of righties. But Colby will get the lion share of starts in CF if he is healthy.
fwiw, we went out and tested the theory last year that he was benched after every home run
and it wasn’t statistically significant.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
If this is the case,
why did we send down our only legit CF backup to make room for Aaron MIles, a replacement level middle infielder on a team that has 3 other middle infielders? I mean, Jay is back up now, but he deserved to stay on the roster in the first place with the way he was hitting, and considering that you seem to think TLR considers our CF fragile, wouldn’t it make sense to have a backup to him that is halfway decent in CF? Winn is fucking awful out there, and Jay probably hits lefties better than Winn does anyway.
You also have to question why we signed Randy Winn as well. When should he play when our roster is healthy? Ludwick hits righties better than lefties and is better defensively. Holliday hits everyone and is better defensively. Winn sucks in CF, can’t hit from the right side, and has not been a good pinch hitter during his career. HE’S ENTIRELY REDUNDANT! You have Mather and Craig in the minors raking and we have a washed up veteran on our bench taking up AB’s they should be getting.
None of if makes any sense at all. It’s madness.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
many people here
believed Winn was capable of CF without issue at the time of the signing. I haven’t seen much evidence so far that shows he isn’t able to play CF.
I’d prefer Jay personally. But I guess it was because they wanted someone who can bat right handed against the lefties.
Even if that person hasn't hit from the right side for going on two full seasons?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
If that's why they got him...
…then Mo and whoever else literally cannot figure out how to use the internet. He’s had 22 hits in his last 155 PA as a RHH, and only four of them have been for extra bases. That’s pathetic.
I haven’t seen much evidence so far that shows he isn’t able to play CF.
Obviously he hasn’t accumulated enough time out there to create a predictive and solid sample, but his UZR in CF has been ghastly for a few years now. He’s better suited to corners and against RHP only. And yet he’s used to spell one of the team’s best hitters.
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by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 4, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought tony was famous for putting his players in a position to succeed?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Supposedly
Recently he’s
- used Miller against RHH, completely negating his platoon advantage
- used Winn as a CF and had him hit RH
- played Stavinoha in RF more than once in a blue moon
- had Aaron Miles play in the major leagues
- caught Molina into the ground
- had Boog hit leadoff
This is just in the past few weeks.
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by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 4, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
and sent carp out to pitch with a bruised throwing arm
and then left him in to give up 7 ER.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
Winn looks awful batting righty
I keep thinking he’s playing whack-a-mole or something instead of hitting a baseball.
Thank goodness the All-Star break is coming up. This team needs time to get healthy.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Why didn't he say that he was giving Rasmus a day to rest?
He told the reporters that he was starting Winn because he was 4-12 against Parra. Would it have caused a stir to say Colby needed a day off?
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
I just find the
who sits who plays daily lineup to be perplexing.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
I'm sorry, it just doesn't add up....
He’s playing Molina, who’s been pretty much replacement level this season, as much as he possibly can……yet Rasmus, who’s just as important defensively, imo, and more important offensively sits 32 games a year?
C’mon dude, you can’t possibly think that he sits due to injury every time he sits do you?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't know what to think about it...
114 games last year, 130 this year… It’s headed in the right direction. If we were flatlined it would really be enraging. It seems to me it’s likely Rasmus has some weird issues relating to general health/nutrition/physical immaturity that keeps him on the bench and doesn’t rise to the level of a public announcement or trip to the DL.
Fire La Russa!
Did he miss 25 straight games at some point?
Did I miss this section of the season? Or did he miss 5-6 games due to an injury and TLR has been sitting him once a week for the rest of the season?
I think it’s the latter.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
he missed 5-6 games
and Tony has been sitting him once a week, until the after the first half of the season. Like he does every year with every player not named Pujols, and very recently Holliday.
And my point is that he should be treated like those two guys
Because he’s been as valuable as either of them so far this season. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable line of thinking.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
and my point is that
given his history over the last two years of breaking down mid season I am okay with giving him spot rest against lefties. And since these two points are polar opposite so I don’t see a need for us to continue arguing over it. Your point is valid(because based soloing on play colby has earned the right to be out there every day.) I feel my point is valid. Therefor the only place for us to go from here is flinging poo at each other.
130 starts isn't that many
Holliday, Pujols, Rasmus, and Ludwick are the team’s four best hitters and should be in the lineup every day that they feel physically able to play. And when Raz isn’t hitting well, he’s by far the team’s best option in CF. He needs to finish the year with a lot of games played simply because if he doesn’t then the team will have wasted games playing other, inferior players in his stead.
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by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 4, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Minor quibble
He’s hitting very well against LHP 0.351 wOBA and crushing the ball in games where LHPs start (numbers slightly boosted by performance against RH relievers)
by stevesommer05 on Jul 4, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Clearly your overall point still stands
and he should start every day he is able to
by stevesommer05 on Jul 4, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I can top you, I think...
I went to the entire Royals’ and D’Backs’ series. There were three day games (when I bought tickets, there were only 2 scheduled) – one of which went 4 hours in a 4-2 affair – two Jeff Suppan starts, two Jason LaRue starts, 10 AB by Freese in 3 starts, 3 AB by Ludwick in one start (as DH), 2 starts and 6 appearances by Aaron Miles, 3 starts and 4 appearances by Nick Stavinoha.
Damn you LaRussa
I sad two years ago that his predilection for washed up veterans was really gonna bite us in the ass some day, and i think this season is it….if i knew dave duncan would have stayed, i would have not wanted TLR to be re-signed the last two years…he may be a good “tactician” during games, but his insistance on poor roster management hurts this team more than it helps
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
I think we're getting to the point...
…where this guy is done as a manager. He can do pretty much whatever he wants, and he knows it. The team currently has three 2nd basemen (one of whom can fill in at other spots), a DH who can’t hit enough to be one, a utility OFer who can’t play CF, and a backup catcher who supposedly can’t catch back-to-back days. This is madness. The 2nd best player, and guy with the highest SLG, sits in an important game b/c TLR thinks he can’t handle LHP even though his, um, results say otherwise. He uses Trever Miller to pitch entire innings in close games even though his FIP vs. RHP is north of five for his career. He clearly thinks Nick Stavinoha can play OF, or else he would have begged Mo to get someone else up with the big club. And Aaron Miles… I’m sorry, I don’t care if he’s the 25th man on the roster, there’s always a chance the guy will have to start a game if he’s on the roster and Miles has done just that. His shining light game involved a slap single and a flare double.
It’s obvious, isn’t it, that LaRussa’s hands are all over this mess? Seriously, this man is in his own way more often than I thought possible. I feel it’s high time he rides off into the sunset. It’s not like managers are irreplaceable. The only way I’m ok with TLR hanging around much longer is if Pujols and Wainwright beg for him to stay and promise to never leave or something like that. I’ve backed the guy up quite a bit in the past, but I simply can’t do it anymore. This madness needs to stop.
/rant
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by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 4, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I think what we're seeing is that
he can no longer bullshit his way through his reasons for playing certain players anymore. The advanced metrics have caught up and surpassed TLR’s index cards, so he can’t just arbitrarily make a decision anymore and then find some bullshit reason for that guy to play. WE CAN LOOK UP THE BULLSHIT NOW, TONY! You saw this with the “pinch hitting for Ludwick” decision in the spring of 2009, a move that made no sense at all, and you’ve seen it multiple times since then, including the ridiculous defense of starting Winn last night.
I still think that he runs a clubhouse about as professionally as you can, but some of this roster madness and lineup shuffling has got to stop. He’s no longer getting the most out of what he’s given, which is what he’s been given credit for throughout his career, regardless of whether it’s been true or not (I’m of the opinion that a lot of this is hocus pocus. Any above average manager could have won with those A’s clubs or the early 2000’s Cardinals teams).
His magic hasn’t turned Brendan Ryan into Walt Weiss — he’s turned him into a better fielding Mike Gallego. I almost wish he’d get addicted to teppanyaki so we could trade Aaron MIles to Japan for a crate of ingredients — unfortunately, we’d show up at the ballpark and have a crate of teppanyaki ingredients starting at second base and batting 2nd.
I used to defend him religiously, but I just can’t do it anymore — the majority of his moves go against most empirical evidence and become indefensible.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I really wonder how much of the Cardinals letting LaRussa basically run things
is because they know he is the key to keeping dave duncan? A friend of mine(cubs fan) asked me last year who i would rather not lose between LaRussa and Duncan…I answered LaRussa, because if we lose him we lose duncan too…might as well keep one right? I’m to the point where i think we should offer Duncan a huge amount of money to stay, and cut ties with larussa after the season…this festering wound that is poor roster managament and personel decision has gotten to be too much..Mo needs to grow a pair
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
I love Duncan
am obviously getting sooooo tired of LaRussa, to the point that if losing Duncan is the price of losing LaRussa…well then I would be okay with seeing what Mason could do as a full time pitching coach.
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
Happy Birthday, Rube Goldberg!
And that other thing too.
Off to the ballyard soon. I expect downtown to be chaos. Wish me luck.
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jul 4, 2010 12:04 PM EDT reply actions
Rube Goldberg - influencing Cardinal roster construction since 1996!!!
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 4, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
America
That is all.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 4, 2010 12:07 PM EDT reply actions
Lineup per the twits
Cards lineup: Lopez 5, Rasmus 8, Pujols 1, Holliday 7, Jay 9, Schumaker 4, Molina 2, Wainwright 1, Greene 6
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jul 4, 2010 12:12 PM EDT reply actions
Pujols is pitching?
That can’t be good on his elbow. Not that I would put it past our manager, however, since he has clearly lost his goddamn mind.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 4, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The cunning plan is to have Pujols and Wainwright pitching at the same time.
They can’t hit ’em both!
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jul 4, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
pujols and waino pitching
maybe this is the last genius stroke in LaRussa’s bag of tricks…the double pitcher of death
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
It would make sense if one of them pitched from the left side
But Albert and Waino are both right handers! Ugh, another mistake by LaRussa! Why didn’t he do this on Jaime’s start?
I want the Walrus back...
no man, thats the genius of it all
Pujols pitches left handed!
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
[dramatic sting!]
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
He used to hit lefthanded too actually
But Albert needed more of a challenge.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Greene starting for the third time in a row
… So I wasn’t crazy when I said if Greene was on the team he would see more playing time than Miles.
miles is irrelevant
and has no place on this roster…but thats been said before, a million times
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
so what you are saying is...
Mo should cut him. I agree. Let’s cut miles and bring up Craig. Do it Mo. Do it.
as i said earlier
Mo would have to grow a pair first
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
time for a letter to johnny mo's parents to ask them to intervene?
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
Dr Mr and Mrs. Mozeliak
Please proved Johnny with the Hormone Therapy necessary to engorge his gonadal region. If it is a simple case that his testicles have not dropped yet, please have him close his mouth, hold his nose, and blow with all his might.
Thank you kindly.
Your Friends at VEB
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
provide not proved
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
:shrug:
Stavinoha has been fine as a PH. Which is what he will be with Jay, Craig, and Winn also on the roster.
If we cut Stavinoha, who would you want up?
AMAURY CANZANA MARTI!!!!!!
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
you misspelled his name
any aberrations in the time-space continuum are on you
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
he's changed it like 15 times
i can’t keep up…forgive me
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
i've got no problem with stav
as long as he is the 5th outfielder and PH “specialist”…he should not be starting games, and even if he does start, he should not be hitting above 7th in the order
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
that's what pisses me off about Stav
I could live with him just being a pinch hitter, but when he gets starts there’s no defense for it, since his defense is really bad
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
When you finish patting yourself on the back...
Ask yourself: If Aaron Miles can instantly be replaced by a AAA player, THEN WHY THE FUCK IS HE ON THE DAMN ROSTER IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!?!?!?!?!
Does he save puppies and kittens in all his spare time away from the ballpark? Have dirty pictures of Bill DeWitt in his DeWallet?
Fernando Salas would be a better option, even as a pinch hitter! Allen Craig is a MUCH better option, since Greene and Ryan can play every infield position anyway we don’t need another middle infielder.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
don't know, really?
i hope that was rhetorical
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
If mo can get LaRussa's God son off the roster
He can get Aaron Miles off the Roster. It is his job to construct it.
Yeah no argument really...
other than the Dunc trade caused a huge ruckus and I think Mo wants to pick his battles.
Fire La Russa!
duncan was an OF
i really believe there is some internal organizational philosophy that the 25 man roster must contain 5-6 people who can play middle infield…makes it harder to get rid of miles…and yes, i know thats absolutely stupid
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
oho, you think you've taken out our middle infielder?
allow me to produce… ANOTHER MIDDLE INFIELDER!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Helpful restaraunt suggestions
He’s 12 HRSAR and 8 AABAR (atta boys above replacement).
Just the other day he pulled the rare double. While sitting next to Rasmus on the bench, he gave him an atta boy for his seed spitting prowess and, moments later, streered Rasmus away from White Castle as a postgame meal. Instead, he recommended the roasted scallops at Sydney Street Cafe.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 4, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Which probably explains Randy Winn playing last night
Colby probably ate the shellfish raw and got food poisoning, because he’s never had shellfish before. Can we get rid of this Miles guy already? Even his advice sucks!
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm really happy that Greene has been getting playing time
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
now Jay needs his playing time too
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet
I am going to the game. Good lineup and Wainwright starting! Woot. (Does anybody still say “woot”, even ironically? Besides me that is).
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
my roommate in PT school did
and i’m assuming he stil does…he takes it one step further though…he says “woot woot” but not fast and togther or with a increase in volume…no he would say it slow with a very distinct pause between the woots and in a very monotone pitch….almost like he didn’t realize it was a phrase of exclamation…weird fellow
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
But does he shoop da whoop?
/chargin’ ma lazer
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
i do. out loud.
a “woo” always turns into a “woohoo” which is unintentionally homeric.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
You mean!
No Aaron Miles? No Nick Stavinoha?
Not sure how Jon Jay is a 5-hitter or Skip Schumaker is a 6-hitter, but minor victories!
If Greene keeps playing well...
La Russa will either have to ship out a good hitting middle infielder (our biggest liability) or get rid of Miles once Freese returns.
We can only hope Greene makes the choice difficult for LaRussa.
Fire La Russa!
Greene at SS
Agreed that LaRussa needs to go and I will just leave it at that without repeating all of the stupid decisions that have been made. However, maybe something good can come out of this mess. For example, Greene is playing SS today and is in his third consecutive game. I think it would be a huge positive if he can solidify his place in the line-up and do so at SS. Ryan has to be replaced and Greene is the only one barring a trade that can do it. Middle infield defense is extremely important and while Lopez provides the offense – he just cannot handle the defense. In my mind, if Greene cannot handle it then they have to look for a trade.
Hopefully Winn and Miles will also be replaced. Mather and Craig would make nice additions and could both be called up with Ryan serving as the back-up middle infielder. Craig and Mather are both hitting well at Memphis and if Greene can have some success then maybe someone will realize that Crag and Mather could do the same thing.
damn
i kinda forgot about mather
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
This just in:
Omar Infante named to the NL All-Star team, Joey Votto left off the NL All-Star team.
Can someone remind Charlie Manuel that this game counts?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
yes, but
the roster already has three top-flight first basemen. Votto got squeezed because of his position. And, if I understand it right, Infante was picked to fill the mandated ‘utility’ pick, for which Joey V. didn’t qualify.
Yes, Votto deserved a spot, but THAT list is long, as it always is.
votto just raked against the phils
manual must be holding a grudge. votto certainly deserved it over anyone i can think of at first. pujols-votto-gonzo sounds good. who was chosen over votto?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I can think of about.....
I dunno THIRTY other players that would have been better selections than Omar Infante, who celebrated by striking out against Leo Nunez to end a ninth inning rally yesterday. Can’t wait to see his AB in the ninth against Mo Rivera with 2 outs and the bases loaded. Can’t. Wait.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'd be fine with Votto or Zimmerman
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
How do you leave off the guy with the 2nd most HR in the NL? Infante has a .320 wOBA. Do managers not realize that people can look this shit up now?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 4, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
So clearly the Supreme Justice is starting today in honor of our nation's Founding
Say what you will about La Russa, but the man loves America.
Our next goal should be to get Hamilton called up to replace Stav, and draft a prospect named Madison. If only Rico Washington were still here…
OK, I’m leaving for the game now. Go Cards!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Heyward is 5th among NL RF in WAR
And out of the top ten when looking at all NL outfielders…Holliday is first in WAR among NL outfielders….Heyward is starting the All-Star game…FESPN, or whatever it is you guys say
UZR is killing colby, he’s the best offensive CF in baseball, but his -5.2 in fielding value is killing his total WAR….still .1 more WAR than Heyward
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
WAR should use...
three year UZR average, or in the case of a new player, it should just assume something fairly close to average, one way or the other. It would be a lot more useful.
Fire La Russa!
this
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
heyward is on the DL
hard to produce from there.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I know the Cardinals are division rivals
but would you guys vote for Votto on the final vote? He was robbed and if he is on the All-Star team, the NL has a better chance of winning.
Thanks!
I've got no problem with that
I hope he wins the last spot and spells Albert after the 3rd inning.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 4, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
So...
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
wow
That sucks. Don’t the cubs have enough OFs?
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jul 4, 2010 2:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't believe it...
that’s not enough for an elite closer that will make reasonable money next year.
Fire La Russa!
shit
well, it’s the bleacher report though…
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i read that last night on red reporter
they all agreed it was bunk. lee i could see, or someone like drew for ss, but marmol makes less sense.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
How is it
that the Cubs seem be always be able to make intra-division trades that do the most damage to our prospects of winning?
For years it was the Cubs treating the Pirates as a AAAA affiliate, taking all their good players for next to nothing and now that the Cubs are completely out of it they’re giving the team leading us a good BP arm for “nothing”. (Of course, I realize that, long-term, this could turn out like Brock-Broglio, but, at the moment, it scares me a bit.)
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 4, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, heisey has talent
they’d have two young of’ers in place with he in cf and colvin in one of the corners, depending on if they could actually deal soriano – they seem to think it possible if they eat enough of that contract.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
BCB doesn't think it'll go down.
If it does, expect torches and pitchforks in Cubbie land.
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jul 4, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
now i'm torn whether i want it or not
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
All Star money
Per Cot’s contracts, the all star selections have a $200,000 impact on the 2010 payroll budget
Albert – $50K
Matt – $50K
Carp – $50K
Yadi – $50K
Adam – Nadda (shitty agent)
Cot’s has confusing info on all star award bonuses for Albert & Matt. $50 k for election and $25 for selection. I’m guessing the election is for the fans/players and selection is for the manager selection.
Suppan missed out on his $50k as well as an extra $10k for starting the all star game.
by ubeddie on Jul 4, 2010 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
yadi made the all-star game?
guess last night knocked carp off. haven’t looked at the list yet, but i hope cutch made it.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Randy Winn's contract
interesting performance bonus fact from Cot’s Contracts for Winn. Maybe this is why Tony’s starting Winn cause it hits the Yankees budget. That crazy Tony, always looking out for the boys and trying to screw the other teams.
performance bonuses: $0.1M each for 50, 75, 100 PAs against left-handed pitchers; $0.15M each for 125, 150, 175, 200 PAs against left-handed pitchers
Of course...
This is mindless NL bashing. We almost beat the AL this year in interleague.
Fire La Russa!
That depends on how many PA's Omar Infante gets.
That’s seriously the worst manager’s pick of all time that didn’t have to do with taking a mandatory player from a team that didn’t have a viable all star to select but had to be represented.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I saw Wallace when the 51s were in Round Rock
It was a great offensive game for Las Vegas, but Wallace wasn’t impressive; his only decent contact was an outfield single. It was about the same for the rest of the 4-game series.
he's working on stuff
he’s apparently already won the jays first base job, so he doesn’t need to put up numbers to impress. they are trying to get him to hit more flies with backspin rather than line drives – toronto loves dingers.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i'm a big fan of walrus' bat
so i’m biased – still, i understand we already have a first baseman. i just wouldn’t have traded him for holliday is all. would have preferred a non-rental free-agent-to-be.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
That's a good way to ruin a .300 hitter who can spray line drives all over the yard.
Imagine if the M’s had done this with Edgar Martinez, not that Wallace is that good, just that he kinda reminds me of Edgar in terms of makeup — he’ll hit a few homers but he’s a guy who could hit legit .320 in the show with an OBP around .400. Good contact and on-base skills, and enough power that he’ll hit around 20 or so I would guess.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
in favor of the trade
In a perfect world, the Cardinals are assessing their talent, building the farm system and looking to the future. But the key to this trade is Albert Pujols—he forces the Cardinals’ hand. They have to demonstrate to him that they’re in win-now mode to sweeten the deal to keep him. And regardless of what he does this decade, they need him. Ticket sales and TV revenue depend on Albert staying in a Cardinals uniform. John Mozeliak doesn’t want to go down in history as the guy who let the greatest baseball player leave the team.
I think the Mulder trade made us all more wary of the Holliday trade. I’m not a huge fan of it, or the monster-sized contract we gave him, but if it offers Albert any promise and security, I’m all for it.
I'm sorry
If signing Matt Holliday to a team record contract and using the last couple of years to get out from under bad contracts to clear room to sign him and stay competitive, then we’re definitely not going to convince him by doing anything else. I’d rather not cripple the team just to try and keep Pujols and then have him leave for the NYY $30M per season anyway.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
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