Anatomy of a Curveball
by stevesommer05 on Jul 30, 2010 7:00 AM EDT
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PrintHello everybody, with Dan on vacation the VEB higher ups were kind enough to ask if I would be willing to pinch hit for a day. I jumped at the chance to put some analysis in front of you guys.
As a quick comment on yesterday’s game, here is a chart on run distributions comparing 2009 and 2010 actual runs scored.
Clearly these are actual data points and don’t necessarily speak to true talent; however, it does confirm the common talking points. Yes the offense is scuffling. Yes the Cards have been shutout or held to one runs more frequently than last year. That being said that graph even looks "flukey" (and I'd venture to say not representative of the true talent of our offense). Hopefully the guys will get if figured out.
Being the optimist that I am I wanted to talk about something a little more uplifting though, Adam Wainwright’s curveball. I’ve always been fascinated by good 12-6 curveball be it Darryl Kile’s, Matt Morris’, Wainwright’s, or Carpenter's, but I haven’t put much analytical effort behind what makes them effective.
Before I dig into the details I need to familiarize you with a one metric I’ll use throughout.
Rv100 – this is the same (more or less) as the pitch type run values on Fangraphs scaled to 100 pitches. It accounts for the run values of transitioning between counts (i.e. balls or strike) as well as the run values of balls in play.
Now on to the analysis. Generally when it comes to curveballs, I’d say there are two primary variables that are likely to impact its results, movement and location, and a few other variables, i.e. sequencing, that will have an effect as well. I’ll tackle each of these elements individually and see what we can learn.
Here is a chart that shows Adam’s vertical and horizontal movement for his curveball along with the MLB average from an article by Harry Pavlidis
I apologize for the size of the charts, but you can click on any of them to get a larger view.
The chart plots the vertical movement on the y-axis and Rv100 on the x. For this and the rest of the charts negative runs are good (i.e. runs saved). The chart is broken up into all pitches in the left chart and swings only in the right. The separate lines represent the handedness of the batter. It appears that against LH hitters the more vertical movement the better, but he has been more successful against RH hitters with a sharper curve. These conclusions are independent of whether the batter swings or not as the curves are shaped nearly identical, just with differing magnitudes. It appears that Wainwright is at least subconsciously aware of these dynamics as his frequency distributions lean towards the more effective break patterns. He throws an extra ~5% of pitches with with more than 10 inches of vertical break to lefties than righties.
Clearly movement isn't everything as a sharp breaking ball that always bounces or is always belt high isn't going to be extremely useful. With that in mind let's look at how Adam does when he spots his curve in various locations, first by vertical location.
And then by horizontal location
The takeaway from these charts for me is that overall his curve has good value when in the zone and bad values when outside the zone (with the exception of out of the zone away to RHB). In general his curve has been better when away from righties and when inside to lefties. This isn’t too surprising as it seems like a lot of strikeouts against lefties are curves that he buries at their feet on the inner half.
One final interesting piece of information is pitch sequencing. The following table summarizes his results after various pitches
| prev pitch | rv100 |
|---|---|
| FB | -3.72 |
| CU | -1.97 |
| SL | -2.5 |
| CH | -1.7 |
It appears that his curve is best after the harder stuff (FB, SL) than after the slower stuff.
Those are the big things that I found when I dove into Adam’s curve. Most of it is fairly intuitive and matches what my eyes are telling me, which to me somewhat validates the data coming out. Hopefully you found it at least a little interesting and picked up a couple of new pieces of information.
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Great stuff, Steve.
And thanks for pitching in to help. (Get it? Pitching in? I’ll be here all week.)
Something I would be interested in seeing is a comparison of Chris Carpenter’s curve to Adam’s, from the angle of the effectiveness in vs. out of the zone. You said yourself Adam’s curve works better in the zone than out, and that makes sense both logically and anecdotally. Just picturing in my mind’s eye, though, I seem to see more of Carp’s curves being swung at in the dirt and not quite as many thrown in the strike zone. He throws some for strikes, of course, but Carp seems to throw hard stuff in the zone and then bounce a curve late in the count than what Wainwright does.
I could be entirely wrong, of course, but it certainly seems to me those are the usage patterns of the two respective hurlers.
Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!
Thank
That would be interesting. I initially wanted to do both of their curves, but I ran out of time.
by stevesommer05 on Jul 30, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
As someone who hasn't seen much analysis like this
The takeaway from these charts for me is that overall his curve has good value when in the zone and bad values when outside the zone
I’d imagine that’s true of most pitchers and pitches, given that you’re including run values from count transitions. Particularly given that the trend is much more obvious in the horizontal dimension, where a curve ball seems less likely to elicit a lot of swings outside the zone (compared to below the strike zone). Is this more true of Wainwright’s curve than it is of his other pitches, or of league-wide curve balls?
Either way, fun stuff. Thanks for the post.
I'd think it to be pretty globally true too
I should have also said that I was referencing “in the zone horizontally” as there is probably more utility going out of the zone vertically as you state and the charts show. It is interesting to note that he really doesn’t get too many swings outside of the zone horizontally.
I don’t have my database at work so I can’t speak to league wide curve balls right now.
by stevesommer05 on Jul 30, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
You noted
the above average horizontal movement. Wouldn’t a “true” 12-6 curve (in theory) be less effective outside the zone horizontally because of the whole breaking across 1 plane instead of 2 planes thing?
by WyoCardsFan on Jul 30, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd say that's probably right theoretically
We’d have to find the closest thing to a 12-6 and see what that looks like
by stevesommer05 on Jul 30, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
This is wonderful.
I greatly enjoyed it. Thanks, Steve.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Great Job!
As a person who usually doesn’t read analysis (mostly because I’m not familiar with the matrices/forumlas used), this was one of the more interesting pieces I’ve read. Fantastic.
And bgh… you’re Waino quote is maybe one of the greatest athletic quote ever.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
This is great stuff Steve.
It’s interesting that his horizontal location is nearly identical, no matter the handedness.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
On horizontal location
are these the kind of graph where we can imagine things from the catcher’s POV?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yes
Sorry should have spelled that out.
by stevesommer05 on Jul 30, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
wow, tons of info
Thanks!
If you ever do another entry, I’d love to see your initial data on run scored shown against successful teams (either something like the Yankees or say the 2004 and 2005 cards).
The most interesting thing to me
Is that the curve seems to be effective against righties even high in the zone.
The blue line doesn’t cross zero until it’s out of the strike zone, so that’s gotta be more a result of being called a ball than becoming a line drive.
Take away = There is no hanger
Of course the big problem with this sort of analysis, which you bring up in the end, is that looking at single pitches in a vacuum is tough. A pitch squarely in the positive rv100 range in each metric could be a good pitch on an 0-2 count against Jeff Francoeur.
soup's start pushed back?
i thought he was supposed to start today. carp’s starting instead, with soup tomorrow.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
I'm not sure a second straight day of Carp wouldn't be better than Soup on normal rest.
Bring back the 1-man rotation!
by dronemc on Jul 30, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure Mr. Radbourn agrees with you
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Here is a graph of the movement of soups curve:
.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jul 30, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 13 recs
Is that how it looks on the way in, or on the way out of the stadium?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
by TBender on Jul 30, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Both
Although, once the hit ball has traveled as far out as it’s momentum can carry it, the ball will curve downward. Soup’s never gets to that point.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm guessing the answer to that question is a resounding...
…Yes.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 30, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe this means Jake Westbrook will start tomorrow.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
don't tease me man, don't tease
I would so love to see Westbrook
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
by mattyfrommo on Jul 30, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
welcome Aaron Cook!
Your new St. Louis Cardinal! Traded for Eduardo Sanchez and random A ball player.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 30, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Source?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
the MLBTR article
that says the rockies are unlikely to trade cook
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
good news for me!
I am going to be section 161, row H….I wish they were playing somebody better than the Pirates and really hope I don’t have to look at Miles at 3B all night (or at all)
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I will be combining FB mobile uploads from my LG Dare
& numerous pictures from our Samsung (whatever the one with the screen on front is called)
my wife is sad that we won’t be on the 1B side so she can stare at Albert’s behind all night
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
i continue to be amazed about the conversations you have with your wives
anyway, on the 3B side though, you can look right into our dugout and that is way more interesting than albert’s behind (waino and random cardinal dances, boog antics and of course carp)
I tried the whole wives thing, but ended up settling on one
everything I say about my wife I say to her face too, so sometimes people are always thrown back a bit when they meet us as a couple for the first time
The zoom isn’t great on the Samsung, but I’m hoping to be able to zoom in on there pretty good. I’m tempted to bring a glove for possible foul line drives, but my inner manly-man won’t let me do it.
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
by STLRegalia on Jul 30, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that's what I keep telling myself
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
It's what I always tell myself too
When I go to games I am torn between really wanting to catch a foul ball and really not wanting to hurt my hand to do it. My wife was lucky enough to literally have a Yadi foul ball bounce into her purse. So not fair.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
If it's made of leather it's kind of like a glove!
Problem solved!
Actually I have brought a glove before, and then regretted having to carry it around. So no more gloves.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
It's not a purse, it's a European shoulder bag.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Otherwise called a murse.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
So I had a buddy with a shoulder bag he got in South America
My other two buddies went up to visit him at his school in western Pennsylvania (I was unable to go). They made fun of him mercilessly for his man purse. “It’s not a purse!” etc. etc.
So they decide to drive to see Niagara Falls. Both sides of the border, just for fun. He took his “man bag” and put it in the trunk of the car.
On one of their border crossings, they get a standard vehicle search. The security lady apparently got visibly nervous and upset and asked in a hurried tone, “Whose purse is this???”
They then had to explain that they had not, in fact, robbed or murdered any women that day and stolen their purse, and it was, in fact, their friend’s purse… er, bag.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I almost always take a glove
I’ve never gotten the chance to use it, however.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 30, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
awesome stuff, steve. That curve truly is a thing of beauty
please come back and contribute some more FP posts if you have the time and inclination.
On a separate note, BP now has Cincy’s playoff odds about 20 points higher than Cards’ odds. What do fellow VEBers think about our playoff hopes? To be honest, for the first time this season I feel like there’s a real chance, even a very good chance, we won’t make the playoffs. Cincy just doesn’t seem to be losing steam like many of us thought they would. Anyway, that’s not an entirely bad thing…I think to some degree I’ll now be able to relax a little more and try to just enjoy watching the games, rather than constantly worrying about the postseason. Of course, playing the Pirates does have a way of brightening one’s outlook. If we sweep, I might be right back in high-intensity playoff mode
unless Freese & Lohse are back AND productive in two weeks
I don’t have much hope
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
I haven't heard any updates on Freese
for aboot a week now. Anyone heard anything for a return date?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
How sweet would it be if we had a
rotation of Waino, Carp, Garcia, Penny, and Lohse?
by WyoCardsFan on Jul 30, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait a minute....
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
it'd be like trading for a rotation...
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
STOP TRYING TO TRADE SHELBY MILLER!!
Thanks
This is probably where I’m supposed to put the obligatory plug to PAH9 :)
by stevesommer05 on Jul 30, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
BP as in Baseball Prospectus or British Petroleum? I wouldn't trust British Petroleum's numbers if I were you....
I just looked at BP’s latest report and it puts the Cards’ playoff odds at 62% and the Reds at 58%. Pecota-adjusted is even more in favor of the Cards. What numbers are you referencing?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 30, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
wow, you're right
was just one off on the columns because the site has kind of crappy formatting. Even though that still doesn’t entirely change my position, just giving this team the eyeball test and recognizing how lackluster they seem.
my lack of sleep and somewhat diminshed mental capacity this morning are
showing. On a somewhat related note, if anyone is going to be in NYC, definitely check out The Frying Pan…pretty kickass bar.
where's the frying pan?
i know nyc well – might know the place that used to be there.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Frying Pan is at pier 66 on the West Side, out on the Hudson River
close to Chelsea, if that’s easier. It’s an old boat they just floated out there, then connected a bunch of smaller crazy old boats and tugboats to. You can go from one to another, climb winding staircases and ladders up to second and third levels of the boats, go down in different engine rooms where they have dance floors or ping pong tables…basically just explore all over the place, and there are small bars spaced out so you can get a drink anytime. And it’s not even expensive for a NY bar, actually a little on the cheaper side even.
i lived 10 years in murray hill and cpw
used to play ball at the chelsea piers complex. there was a restaurant around where you are talking, a big place that a friend of mine took over. it was right on the water off the west side hwy. definitely not the easiest place to get to – probably why it kept changing hands. the old boat sounds cool. are there still a few makeshift houseboats people are living on there? there was a semi-famous louisiana musical family that built a houseboat and traveled it all the way to nyc – they were living on it and playing in various bars and clubs, got a lot of press, and had been there for years.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
hmmm..no, didn't see any of the houseboats
I’m actually living in Midtown East and make my way the few blocks down to the Murray Hill area quite a bit. Not a bad area in its own right. CPW sounds nice as well. Probably expensive as hell, but nice.
I don't know if it's lackluster or just inconsistency mixed with a little bit of boring-ness and frustration at poor roster management
Though they just reeled off a streak (undercutting my point, of course), it’s going to be hard for this team to win games for a sustained period at .700 because of the two replacement-level pitchers, and the numerous black-holes in the hitting lineup. Even when we shouldn’t have black holes, TLR creates them by starting Miles over Greene at 2b.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 30, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
well yeah, there's definitely some inconsistency
which makes it all the more frustrating having seen how well this team is capable of playing
I think we will continue to see the same inconsistency
If Cincy falls apart there is a chance. I don’t think that will happen unless someone is injured. It would sure help if we had our regular pitching rotation.
Oh, I hold out one small hope. My friend in Atlanta has guaranteed the Braves will take the series from Cincy this weekend. FWIW
"I told myself from the very beginning: 'If he's going to throw a shutout, then he's going to tie,'" Wainwright said. "He was not going to beat me today."
Is your friend a descendant of Arnold Rothstein?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
by TBender on Jul 30, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
nostradamus
"I told myself from the very beginning: 'If he's going to throw a shutout, then he's going to tie,'" Wainwright said. "He was not going to beat me today."
August will be the tell-all
As an article on the P-D yesterday pointed out, our August schedule is much softer than Cinci’s. (it flips in September). If we are going to win the division, we have to build a bit of a lead this coming month.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 30, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
rolen has not been contributing much lately...so that's helpful
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I don't understand how BPro gets those numbers
Cincy is .5 games ahead of us in the standings, but our preseason projections were much higher. So if we are in a virtual tie for the division lead, have played just as well as the Reds have this year, and our preseason projections are higher, we should have higher odds.
Actually, I think you are misreading those numbers.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php
IF you look at the original version, which looks at playoff odds using each teams 3rd order winning percentage regressed to the mean, the Reds are about 3% favorites. If you look at the PECOTA adjusted version, which regresses each teams 3rd order wins to their preseason projections, the Cardinals are big favorites.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 30, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess so
It’s basically a winning percentage derived from components (strikeouts, walks, singles, doubles, triples, etc.) and adjusted by strength of schedule. It’s actually pretty good, one of the few things that BPro has actually contributed to the cause in the past few years. I still like BtB’s better
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/7/29/1594404/btb-power-rankings-week-17-the-one#comments
Go down to the first table and look at cW%s – that’s the non league adjusted number. Cards are better than the Reds by that.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 30, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
well, my point is
the cards are a hair better in the pct3 column, also
thanks for the link, though. i didn’t really know what it was
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
When I was done reading this,
I felt like that little neighbor kid in The Incredibles. Mr. Incredible lifts up the car and the neighbor kid was sitting there on his tricycle. After Mr. Incredible sets the car down sheepishly, the kid goes, “That was AWESOME!”.
That was awesome, Steve.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
by azruavatar on Jul 30, 2010 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Memphis
So, yesterday, the Stavinfection went 1-for-4 with a triple!? Does anyone know how this occurred? I assume that the right fielder simply slipped, fell (breaking his foot), and leaving the ball to be retrieved by the center fielder…
Oh, and some fellow named Allen Craig went 3-for-5 with 3 doubles.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Wow that Craig
guy sounds like someone we might want to take a look at.
by WyoCardsFan on Jul 30, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Man, sometimes I wish stuff made sense.
Craig should be on the roster; he’s got nothing left to do at Memphis. And I don’t want to hear the bullshit about “needing regular at bats” as a reason for staying down. Yes, Craig needs at bats, but he needs them UP HERE IN ST. LOUIS, WHERE HE COULD BE HELPING THE CARDINALS RIGHT FUCKING NOW, rather than wasting the ABs on Winn or Miles or whatever godawful washed-up retread TLR “covets” this week. Don’t tell me that, given the way Tony shuffles the lineup, Craig couldn’t pick up 350-400 plate appearances over a season. I know Craig’s not going to be a .950 OPS guy, but I think he’s significantly better than some of the options we’re seeing out there 2-3 times a week.
(Author’s note: I’m aware there’s a good case to be made that Randy Winn is not, in fact, a “godawful washed-up retread.” I wanted to say Stavinoha, but he’s currently taking Memphis at bats away from Craig, potentially at least, and I didn’t want to spew at someone who wasn’t on the MLB team. Winn was next in line. Please don’t hate me, Winn-defenders.)
I'm the resident Winn defender
And Craig should probably be on the team over Winn. Winn is redundant with Jay.
Not afraid to nitpick
But Winn is a switch-hitter!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Correction....
Winn is a switch batter.
He doesnt hit from the right side.
by mick311 on Jul 30, 2010 2:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You know,
I’ve heard Rooney calling a lot of folks recently (both Cards and whomever we’re playing) switch-batters instead of hitters.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 30, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
are you saying mick311 is John Rooney???
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
mick311 is Rooney....Rooney is mick311...Rooney's a MAN!!
/insert crying game theme music
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
/AceVenturascene
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Let's see that again--in instant replay!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
hmm i forgot about winn.
maybe we do have room for jay and craig
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Exactly.
Except Winn is capable of standing in either batter’s box.
If the organization would let Craig play third, then you might be able to keep all three and cut loose AFM (except he also can stand in either batter’s box).
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
at this point, i see no good reason AT ALL not to at least let him TRY!
what is ONE GAME??? come on people! at least put him in at third for a few games in memphis. what is the big fucking deal?!?! are you listening to me memphis manager???? make it happen!
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
i love me some craig
but is there really room for him AND jay up here right now? i want to see one of them traded for a MIF. even though i do love them both. and i would say trade you know who, but RFLDNAOATTRLT.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Hey....I let you an my boat......don't even think it.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
no way mang
but the fact is we have 3 really good players and only one RF spot. jay’s trade value will probably never be higher. we have to do something. i was hoping freese would come back and lopex could play 2b and all would be right with the world, but that is not looking good. at this point, maybe we need a 3B.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
It really does all depend on Freese,
and I’m somewhat concerned that we’ve heard nothing in the last week aboot his progress.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
dude has a broken toe
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
That they said would be healed
before his ankle. Just saying that we are in the time frame now of when they said he should be coming back, and we’ve heard nothing.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
What 3B are available even?
The only one that comes to mind is Wigginton
And that…just… no
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
spose the Nats would flip
Zman for the miles/stav package?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
They might want Suppan too, just to have the whole set.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
if you think about it though, we would be getting a 3B to allow lopex to move to second.
so all we need is a 3B that is offensively better than schumaker/miles. there have to be plenty of those.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Last 14 days, Skip is at .321/.406/.500
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Craig can play first
And Albert seems like he could use a few days off…
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i never did like the argument that we need him to get playing time
its clear the FO doesn’t value Craig very highly and probably don’t see him as a future starter, which is literally the only reason to keep him in AAA
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 30, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
this one's for tony.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 30, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
In honor of Stavinoha's hit
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
I love these kind of posts, but I'll admit one thing always confuses me
the swings are total swings, not just swings and misses, right?
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
What do you mean, "these kind of posts?"
That’s kind of closed-minded, don’t you think?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
yes!you have a problem with my close-mindedness?
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
by mattyfrommo on Jul 30, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
these kinds of posts are done by those kinds of people, if you know what i mean...
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 30, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
These posts all look the same to me.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jul 30, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
and they're shitty drivers.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 30, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
JABS
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
thanks for the hard work steve
very interesting from the start of the post with the run distribution graph to the interesting angle on wainwright’s curve, very in depth and dare I say it, advanced! there’s a ton of information in there.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 12:18 PM EDT reply actions
it seems VEB is suffering from trade deadline paralysis
as well as losing 2 of 3 to both the cubs and mets paralysis. ugh.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 12:19 PM EDT reply actions
maybe everyone decided to catch up on work they pretended to do
while watching all the horrible day games at the office
that's what I said I was doing
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I didn't even pretend to do work
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I don't usually either,
but sometimes I have to come up with physical evidence.
by WyoCardsFan on Jul 30, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I charge my time to: The Red Baron
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
That much pizza will kill you man.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Are fanposts where the non-sabermetrically inclined people hang out now?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Everybody needs a home.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It's getting bad....
There’s some really good stuff that’s getting overrun by what should be fanshots.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
or what should just
stay at the P-D
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
at the same time
it’s a little off putting to see people automatically denigrate a post because it’s not all graphs and numbers. Not that I think it’s a realistic possibility, but I’d hate for this place to turn into a fanblog as up its own ass as, say, LL.
by mattyp on Jul 30, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that's what he's saying at all
There have been two fan post in the last day that are nothing but a paragraph’s worth of rant. You don’t need graphs to have a worthy fanposts, simply coherent thought and analysis that other people could learn something from.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
come on, one is basically a hot stove post
that’s legit. It could have been much better with some more analysis, but I see this as first and foremost a fan blog, not a sabermetrics blog. In light of this, I think contribution should be encouraged, not discouraged (as could very well be the effect of having commenters immediately opining that fanposts should contain “sabermetrics”). Rec the good fanposts, ignore the bad ones, and it’ll all work out in the end.
by mattyp on Jul 30, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes contribution should be encouraged
so should critical thinking. Those two fanposts are nothing more than what a normal Cardinals fan might think on a daily basis. Tell me something I don’t already know or might not have already thought about 10 times today. And for the record, I have no problem with posts devoid of Sabermetrics, but those two posts could very easily be have been made into fanshots.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
if a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
yes
but if no one is around to hear that tree fall…
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
VEB: a mostly but not always sabermetric blog where non-sabertypes can hang out but should limit their rants to fan shots
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
by IHeartBoog on Jul 30, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
So it's all a tagline issue?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
That's the perfect tagline we've been looking for
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
all we ask is for quality
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems that the graph of quality of fanposts would look a lot like our run production graph from 0-5
A reverse bell curve
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
The fact that we are actively pursuing another pitcher
I suppose means that Penny is not going to be back anytime soon? I mean, I know we were in on Oswalt at the beginning, but then dropped out, and then were back in (or so reports say). If true, does that mean that we learned something about Penny (or maybe even Lohse) that would have made us back in on Oswalt at the last minute?
there has to be something wrong with Penny other than that injury from the home run
although if that is some kind of career ending injury, at least he went out in high style
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
How much was that GS worth?
Gotta be the most expensive HR in history.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd settle for a little less cool and a lot more of Penny's pitching.
/moot point
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If that's it...
…I wonder if he’d be the only pitcher who’s last ever action in MLB was hitting a Grand Slam.
just remember
he got injured the game before. so it’s not quite so heroic as it sounds.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
im not really so sure how hard they are actively pursuing another pitcher though.
I felt like a lot of the Oswalt rumors were a result of Oswalt himself saying he wanted to play here. The money and prospects needed to actually get the deal done always looked like a long shot to me. I wish we would get a pitcher and with the injuries we have had I really feel like we should of traded for a pitcher a month ago. But with the trade deadline just a day away there really don’t even seem to be that many half-way decent rumors out there about us getting someone.
by mick311 on Jul 30, 2010 1:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't hear any rumors either
and I have actually been paying attention to Ken Rosenthal twitter.
"I told myself from the very beginning: 'If he's going to throw a shutout, then he's going to tie,'" Wainwright said. "He was not going to beat me today."
Well...
I just read somewhere that on some XM show they were talking to a Houston sportswriter who said that the Oswalt camp was annoyed with the Astros because they felt that the Cardinals offered Houston a better package than what Philly gave up, so they were angry Roy couldn’t go to his first choice.
Take that for what its worth, I really have no clue about the validity of the source.
Getting Oswalt out of the division probably had much to do with that.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
What do they care...
they’re still not going to be competitive next year, and the option for 2012 was not likely to be picked up…you do the best thing to improve your team for 2012+ when you will actually be competitive again.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
It's Houston. They care.
Even if it seems irrational, McLane cares.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
point taken.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
here's a few drink recipes that might be of interest to some here
from a st. louis-style bbq joint in new orleans. might help get you through some games. and of course, there’s bacon:
http://www.squeal-nola.com/Squeal-s-Signature-Cocktails.html
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I still want some bourbon soaked peppered bacon
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I happen to have aboot 5 lbs of that in my freezer right now......
dry cured it, then soaked it in bourbon and brown sugar before I smoked it. It’s reeeeeeaaaaaaalllllly good.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
you'd probably like the "glazed ham" drink i linked to above
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
That one sounds awesome
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 30, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
holy smokes
I need that
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That gives me shivers just reading it.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
White Sox Acquire Edwin Jackson
They acquired him for two DHs
Weird.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Hudson is a good return for Jackson
and this Holmberg guy could turn out to be a decent player.
Might be a bad strategy though to have all this FB pitchers in their stadium.
do you think Jackson can turn it around on the Sox?
it seems like he isn’t very good this year
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
There were talks of a three-team deal, involving Chicago, Arizona, and Washington.
Perhaps Kenny Williams just decided to acquire Jackson and flip him in a deal for Dunn.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
hmm...
Kurkjian of ESPN reporting Nats told him directly they are NOT trading Dunn to Sox for Edwin Jackson
Well, then, our speculation is incorrect.
Perhaps, Williams would include more than just Jackson…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
interesting point
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
chase field is a hitter's park, though.
and he DID throw that no-hitter…
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
It only took 230 pitches!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Ken Williams guaranteed Jackson he'll be limited to 180 per game.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
i sure hope all this nonsense leads to the d-backs actually fielding a good team in a couple of years
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
check this excellent picturesque adventure by fritz over at the sbnation stl blog
and as a trailer:
by d-dee on Jul 30, 2010 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that contract was terrible
but it sucks he’s been hurt a lot that’s for sure
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
he's had good FIP and innings pitched
works for me
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Only in 08 and this year did he have good FIP (and this year his xFIP is probably much more relevant)
Over the last 2 years he’s been worth a total 1.5 WAR and thus worth about $6.5 mil over those 2 years. Being generous let’s say he comes back and is worth over 1 WAR over the rest of this year. That makes it maybe $11 million of value over 2 years of a $10 mil per year contract. Not exactly what you want.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
what was his FIP in '09
one might wonder
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
ah
pitching through a weird injury
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
basically the main problem is he's been hurt and you can't predict that, given his previous track record (wasn't injured much in the past)
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
But the other problem is that he just ain't that good (career 4.51 fip)
Guys who start out sucking and become great, a la Carp, aren’t that common, and you can’t pay a guy for four good years after he’s only had one good year in his 8-year career.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
A league average pitcher (I think he's slightly above) with no history of injury problems at all
Is pretty valuable
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Yeah, I suppose I've underrated that.He's about a 2 WAR player, so we're only overpaying him by 1-2 mil, I suppose.
but then, he’s also 32 and theoretically could be declining…even without the injuries which we couldn’t have anticipated.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
Duncan is all I need to say
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a good reason
and his tERAs have dropped (due to more GBs) with the Cards, but not enough to justify the contract, I think.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
yeah
I was just thinking about your point on the career year.
basically I feel like they overpaid a bit, but it’s not as big a deal as people are making out of it. it IS very frustrating that he’s been hurt though, since that’s a big reason we gave him all the dough.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
2008 was lohse' second best year by fWAR
and the third where he’s accumulated ~3 WAR
since 2002, he’s averaging about 2.5 WAR. sorry, but i’ll take that pitcher
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
I saw this in Bernie's article a little while ago...
The forearm injury, which was a fluke, changed everything. Before the injury, Lohse was 19-9 with a 3.82 ERA. After the injury: 3-11, 5.61.
I don’t think it was a good contract. Putting that aside, I would like to see a healthy Lohse perform before I crack on him for his poor performance.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 30, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
By "a healthy Lohse", do you mean the mediocre Lohse of 2001-2007
or the good Lohse of 2008?
That’s the issue here. While I agree that injury has tainted his Cardinals career, I don’t buy the hypothesis that he would’ve kept being good for the duration of the contract.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
you forget that he got duncan'd
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I mean a healthy Lohse for 2010
What is the point in making it either the “2008 Lohse” or the “2001-2007”? Those are false choices, as even if I wanted to project his performance, it’d be weighted, with 2008 being the most relevant individual year, especially since post-injury 2009 and 2010 data is tainted.
So, like I said, I look forward to watching him pitch when he’s healthy. I don’t expect 2008, but I expect him to be better than Suppan and Hawksworth, which woould be nice.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 30, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
god, let's hope he's better than those two
i think i’ve stuck up for the guy more than anyone, and now would be a really good time to deserve it.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I mainly hate it
b/c now I can’t make fun of the Brewers for giving Suppan the same deal.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
suppan deal was way worse than Lohse
somebody back me up?
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 30, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Both were 4/40
for mediocrity. Known mediocrity at that.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
idk
using three simple things
career FIP
Lohse – 4.51
Suppan – 4.78
Previous Year (cause both were coming of career years)
Lohse – 3.89
Suppan – 4.70
Age when deal was signed
Lohse – 29 (33 when it ends)
Suppan – 31 (35 when it ends)
And Suppan was relatively the same pitcher as his career was but Lohse was noticeably better under Dave Duncan…. i don’t think it compares
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 31, 2010 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions
You can leep thinking Kyle Lohse is a good pitcher if you want to.
Good luck with that.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
there's more to that gem of an article
the title is “The Misadventures of Kyle Lohse & His Many Dirtbikes”
go check it out
strauss reporting according to Bernies show
That the cards are interested in Westbrook and Aaron Cook
by mick311 on Jul 30, 2010 1:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
those were the two guys bernie mentioned
Strauss is suppose to be on at 1pm with updates. Apparently the Cook thing seems to be gaining a little steam, cards would only trade for him if COL picks up most of his big contract. He is ideal for Dunc though. Bernie was also saying that the Cards may likely just stay put bc MO thinks a lot of guys like Westbrook, Cook, or Lilly could just be available off waivers
by mick311 on Jul 30, 2010 1:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If the Cardinals can get Aaron Cook and get the Rockies to throw in Chris Nelson as well
I would be ecstatic. That would be a perfect deal for this team right now.
I would be a little disapointed if we end up with Cook
as our deadline deal. I bet he would quickly take over as a most hated Cardinal on here after he doesn’t pitch that much better than Suppan. Plus his contract (if the Cards have to take on a large sum of it)…would not be good.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
why
would he not pitch much better than suppan? he’s basically the same player as westbrook and he’s had flashes of brilliance in his career, i imagine that duncan woul dlike that 57% GB rate, too
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
if he makes 200 IP
he’s a 2.3 WAR pitcher assuming non improvement from duncan’s tutelage. suppan is a replacement level pitcher at best
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Soup is probably worth negative WAR in all but the most optimistic of projections.
Otherwise I agree.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
Why
would he pitch much better than Suppan? Yeah he would a little bit of an upgrade but not enough to take on his contract…..if we had to take on a large portion of it.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
why would he pitch better than suppan?
because he is a better pitcher and as proven that with his track record. i agree about his contract, but i didn’t know we were talking about that. i was taking issue with this statement
he would quickly take over as a most hated Cardinal on here after he doesn’t pitch that much better than Suppan.
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
One thing though
if he got the same run support Suppan has had it won’t matter. It would just be taking on another contract.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
by that logic
why trade for anyone? just keep rolling suppan out there since run support is so predictive
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Good point
Let’s get him and see what happens.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
He would be hated around here
if he is our big deadline deal and he gives up 4+ runs a game and thus isn’t that much better than Suppan. Fair or not. Maybe he could suprise…who knows. I just would like to see the Cards aim a little higher if they are going to take on a contract for next year as well.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
he's averaging just over 3 runs per start
i don’t the irrationality of the fan base is a good argument for not improving the team
i also think anyone who was expecting a trade deadline deal of the magnitude of holliday again this year was being unrealistic
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
oddly
he’s averaging almost exactly pi runs per start
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
At this point we need help so Westbrook or Cook
would be big for this team.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
You won me over
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
dude
Suppan’s got a 6.18 FIP… no fucking way he pitches just a little bit better than Suppan
this would change our team dramatically for the better – Hawk goes back to bullpen when Lohse comes back (although I can live with Hawk as 5th starter if need be if Lohse is in rotation too)
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 30, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
if we got nelson in the deal
i wouldn’t care how cook performed.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Great post Steve
The aside to begin the post about the run distribution is especially telling and confirms our thoughts about the fact that this team usually either looks great or terrible—rarely average.
Also: Phillie fan gets jail-time for projectile vomiting incident
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
the offense is soooooo streaky
it’s weird that we don’t score 3 runs very often
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I've become increasingly prone to the belief
that baseball has a lot less to do with skill and almost entirely to do with luck.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
yup
it is much more luck oriented than most people would like to believe
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Streaky = understatement
Even “soooooo” streaky doesn’t cover that statistical dip in scoring runs. It’s freakish.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
far beyond streaky
to borrow a pantera euphemism (see album titled ‘far beyond driven’)
/metal reference
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
We're going to turn this fanpost into the trade deadline post
like we have in past years.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/7/29/1595469/new-focus
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
This is basically irrelevant
But does Mike MacDougal’s arm action remind anybody else of Adam Ottavino’s?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I'm sure he doesn't use, and I apologize in advance for the implication
but Mike McDougal looks like a meth addict, all skinny and stuff.
Thing is, I don’t give a damn as long as he gets hitters out in high-leverage situations.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 30, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting...
from this espn insider article on hypothetical trade packages for the stars in the game (pujols, hanley, lincecum, etc.), here’s albert’s:
1. Albert Pujols to the Boston Red Sox for 1B Kevin Youkilis, RHP Casey Kelly, 1B Lars Anderson and SS Jose Iglesias.
No, the St. Louis Cardinals aren’t looking to peddle Pujols, but if they did, they’d want star-level talent in return, and remember, they only hold the rights to the widely acknowledged best player in baseball through 2011. So why not convert that into Youkilis, an almost-as-good first baseman who’s already signed through 2013 for $37 million — which is less than Pujols would cost them to re-sign. They’d also get a possible eventual replacement in the 22-year-old Anderson if his bat comes around — he’s already at Triple-A — and Youkilis’ ability to move to the outfield or perhaps back to third base would make space for whatever opportunity Anderson earns.
Iglesias isn’t a ‘90s-style shortstop; he’ll hit for a decent average and little else, but the Cuban defector’s defensive chops are unquestioned, and he might provide the answer to the Cards’ need there. Kelly is a 20-year-old former two-way prospect providing heat that touches the mid-90s and a true 12-to-6 curve, and he’s already at Double-A. All three of the prospects are already at the upper levels, so while Kelly and Anderson haven’t fully delivered on their potential, they’re young enough to get there, and close enough to make a difference fast.
The Red Sox would be giving up a lot of potential to achieve the upgrade of Pujols from Youkilis, but not so much that they’d be crippling their bid at contending during the life of Albert’s contract. Plus, the Sox have the cash to re-sign him.
As a baseball decision, I would do this in a fucking HEARTBEAT
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Yeah, that would be a hard deal to pass up if you were going on numbers and left the whole "fan" thing out of it.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
let's trade albert this offseason for a treasure of prospects
with the understanding that he comes back and signs with the cardinals when he hits free agency…brilliant!
Hell yeah!
Let’s pull a Walt on the Red Sox! (Blues reference not a Jocketty reference)
by Mulliganstew on Jul 30, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i think i'd rather
just pursue maholm than westbrook, cook, et al. he’s cheaper, just and just as good. could his asking price be that much higher?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
The Padres are thinking the same thing.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
assuming jay keeps up his current level of production for 600 PAs
(totally likely!)
he’s 7.9 WAR player
already worth 1.6 in 122 PAs
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
sadly
statcorner has him at a .341 wOBA assuming neutral batted ball luck
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
I'd take that from a 4th OFer.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
yeah, it's really not that sad
unless he becomes the everday CFer
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Isn't he already?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Completely Unrelated Question
Why do people speak as if only a handful of teams look for groundball pitchers. Like, “Aaron Cook will be great for the Cards – fits their profile as a groundball pitcher”. Wouldnt all teams want a gball pitcher vs someone who pitches high in the zone? It’s not like we have the best D out there? Who wouldnt want a gball pitcher?
I just think we have been known for that for a longer time
and it’s sort of a duncan specialty. but you’re right, I’m sure most teams would love groundball pitchers, but maybe they are just not as good at identifying them, or at converting them to throwing low in the zone?
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
anyway
I think the rest of the teams have caught on by now
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
groundball pitching plays very well into duncan's philosophy
so a pitcher who has already shown a strong tendency for inducing groundballs would be the type of pitcher dunc’ is most likely to be the most successful with
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
totally
but, what pitching coach wouldn’t want to teach a groundball, low in the zone philosophy? I guess it’s more that duncan is just really good?
Other pitching coaches place more of an emphasis on strikeouts, I suppose
You get more whiffs at the top/above the strike zone
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I always knew that Waino had a ton of vertical movement on his curve
but didn’t realize he was getting that much horizontal movement. that’s just a ridiculous pitch
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 4:07 PM EDT reply actions
ted lilly.
from mlbtr:
The Tigers still aren’t out on Lilly, reports ESPN’s Jayson Stark. He adds that a mystery team is in the mix.
That mystery team better not be us.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
Why not? I'm fine with Lilly
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I would take Lilly
but would Hendry deal him to the Cards without asking for too much?
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
I'm only not fine with Lilly
because I don’t wanna see Craig playing for the effin Cubs
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
oh
and the gif wouldn’t be as funny if he were a Cardinal and we had to root for him, so…..just say no to Lilly
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
Nah, he scares me.
I don’t think he keeps up his performance this year, and is due for a massive decline from age soon.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
but he's gone after the season
and likely still a type A. i think it’s a gmable worth taking. i don’t know if offering arb is necessarily a good idea, though
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Oh, I am well aware of his FA status.
I think the decline will come in the second half rather than a year later, and the Cubs won’t do us any favors in acquiring him.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Lilly is one of the better pitchers out there on the market
if not the best
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd take westbrook over lilly.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
Any particular reason why?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
uh
ok. that’s great dude!
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been waiting for Walt to try and show up Mo
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
Would the Cubs trade Lilly to the Reds just to aggravate the Cards?
"I told myself from the very beginning: 'If he's going to throw a shutout, then he's going to tie,'" Wainwright said. "He was not going to beat me today."
The Rangers get Christian Guzman from the Nats
Man the Rangers are wheeling and dealing like crazy.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
read the other day
that they tried to sell the farm to get josh johnson when they traded for cantu
lee/johnson tandem would be sick. i can confidently say that would beat waino/carp
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
you know what i don't want to do?
go get fitted for a tux. but i have to
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Seriously.
I’m in a wedding in just under two months and I have to do some OBNOXIOUS stuff. PLUS, it costs a ton of money. Men have it easy. Everything comes with the tux.
Not an apologist.
Renting tuxes for wedding is the dumbest thing.
Either the groom should pay for them or tell the guys to just wear a suit.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
We have to BUY dumbass ugly dresses.
Sure. The bride tells you she’ll pick something you can wear again, but it’s complete bullshit.
I wish everyone was like me and had a laid back wedding with no wedding party. So much easier.
Not an apologist.
We bought our wedding party's stuff
I nearly killed one of my groomsman two years later when I had to rent an ugly ass tux for his wedding. I bought you a linen suit, you son of a bitch!
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Don't worry...
you came out ahead in a karmic way… that has to count for something.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
Linen is a different story.
Not sure that can be rented.
I have to pay for toe and fingernails to be painted. Have to pay someone to do my hair. Have to pay someone to do makeup. Have to buy bride-approved shoes. Have to have the dress I bought altered. Have to buy bride-approved accessories.
KILL ME.
Not an apologist.
STAB
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
But you won't be wearing it again.
Repeal The LaRussa Tax.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 30, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
two questions
a) can’t you say no to being in the wedding
b) can i see a picture of that dress or at least a sample of the color and you describe the cut
..and what are bride approved shoes?
I know my brother really wants me in the wedding, so I'm trying to remind myself that it's for him.
Besides, I’ve already bought the damn dress. It’s a black dress with an ivory sash (YUCK) and it has a natural waist with a skirt that is more voluminous than I like. I can always have it refashioned into something else as I think it’s cheap-looking as-is.
As for the shoes, I need to re-read the multitude of emails she’s been bombarding the bridesmaids with. Peep-toe and some sort of heel. Probably black, but she’s wearing colorful shoes so we may have to coordinate.
All of this is just controlling, meaningless bullshit.
Not an apologist.
Is she one of the girls
who has a binder of wedding shit that puts the Rams Illinois uhhhh Saints playbook to shame?
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
I had of a buddy's wife doing that
yeah she never heard the end of it from me… for some reason she’s not a big fan of mine. However, I couldn’t let that pass without calling her out for being totally nuts.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
you'd think that your brother
would wake up and smell the micromanagin.g control freak, duck and run
if you don’t like her, forward him some of those emails
by d-dee on Jul 30, 2010 5:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Opposites attract...
wait I did that wrong.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
You don't have to do any of that crap...
just may be a good idea if you want to keep the peace. Sounds like the bride is a real pleasant person to be around with all this pre approved crap.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
I wouldn't be doing this for anyone else.
I didn’t go to these kinds of lengths for my own wedding or my best friend’s. But I’m stuck with this gal for a long time.
Not an apologist.
Yeah if I get involved in the whole getting married thing
and the lady of choice goes through those lengths I’m calling it off out of principle.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
Yeah, ok. Sure.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Anyone who puts all that effort into the wedding
seems like she is more concerned having a wedding than being married… just seems like a bad omen of things to come.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
i kind of agree
i don’t know if i’d end up with a woman that places so much emphasis on this kind of thing. what i’d like to have is a small wedding party following getting married at the courthouse and then spend all the money that most people spend on the actual wedding to take a big extravagant honeymoon
and that’s if i even get married. i’m not sure i really see the point. (no offense to people who are married or place a lot of emphasis on it)
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Tax breaks.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Get a better book keeper.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
It really only benefits couples
where one person works and the other doesn’t. Two standard deductions are two standard deductions when both people are working, married or not.
The biggest difference in taxes arrives with the babies.
Not an apologist.
Yeah, it definitly helped when I was self employed
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
I didn't decide to get married until I decided to have kids.
I know it isn’t necessary, and it has nothing to do with morality. I just figured practical things – like health insurance and taxes – would be easier while married.
Not an apologist.
I think we're all missing the point here.....
PRENUP!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
but after watching that episode of friends
i’ve always been nervous about doing this kind of thing
what if there’s cupping?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
tuxes are so freaking stupid anyway
a suit and tie would look so much better
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
at least you have conviction
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If there were a fill-in-the-bubble-poll
I would vote a 1
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I am going to have a casual wedding if I ever get married
but then again, I probably will have no say in the attire so
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
Mine started out being a “laid-back” affair….that didn’t last too long.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I was at one last summer where someone showed up
in a wife beater… it was a very classy move. I’m always thrown off by what some people decide to wear to weddings and funerals.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
My brother in law wore one of those with a
loose-fitting button-up short sleeved shirt. That shirt was white, but “faded” into blue flames at the bottom. It was… interesting.
Not an apologist.
I went to a wedding...
…once and a guy showed up so wasted he walked around once and then passed out in his SUV. He stumbled back out with his shirt unbuttoned and his fat gut positivly bursting out. RRRREEEAAALLLL classy.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 30, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It's his hot body
you don’t judge him
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
I'm sure he was hot
But that was likely due to the unseasonably warm fall day upon which that wedding was held. He was like 29 and pushing three-and-a-half bills. I hate to say these things because I had an uncle and a grandpa who had heart attacks, but that man was a walking talking heart attack and just didn’t know it yet.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 30, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
As a guy you should just wear a suit and tie...
unless there’s some theme going on there’s not really a question. Why people do other crazy crap is beyond me.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
Because that's what is sold to them.
Plus, they think that if they’re not getting married like their friends, then they aren’t doing it correctly. It’s competitive nonsense.
Not an apologist.
Heh.
I had a low budget wedding, but my wife had everything ridiculously organized.
It was the only time she’s been like that.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Well, you have to be organized if you're doing everything yourself.
But my wedding was low-budget, too. I can’t see a good reason to waste money on that crap.
Not an apologist.
I agree
I think more often than not tuxedos just look overdone and/or stuffy. A nice suit and tie combo does the job.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 30, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, it does the job
But is it sexy?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
The James Bond effect.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Well I'm a dude so I'm not the right person to ask about that.
spants? Oh… spants? Weigh in, will you spants?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 30, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That's all I wore.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
When we were kids(21-22),
one of my friends had to have a shotgun wedding. Her mother showed up in a t-shirt that said “I fallen and I can’t reach my beer.” No, they weren’t married for very long.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
i dunno,
i like how a suit looks. tuxes look cheesy and overdone to me. really, i think i’d just wear jeans, a wife beater and budweiser cap. my sister does not share my views
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
tuxes always look bad
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry I don't want to look like a giant penguin
plus bowties are the creepiest thing ever.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry you don't want to look like someone cool
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Ever since your face was ugly
WHICH WAS ALWAYS
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Been a while since you rented one eh?
They have options, like regular ties.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
And all of them are some crazy slide on
don’t have to tie anything stuff.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
Have you SEEN Dumbe and Dumber???
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
I need to watch that again now that you mention it
gots it on dvd
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Canary yellow with tails...
at least that’s what I hope they’re wearing…
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
I hear ya.....I have to go drink beer and watch the game after work......
we all have our crosses to bear.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jul 30, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know it's rough!
I gotta go sign my lease to my kickass new apartment and get the keys (and part with $400)
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
is that all you have to part with?
Seems like most apts are first last & deposit.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I let talked him into letting me pay the deposit next week
but I usually have been staying month to month so no lease! this will be the first lease I’ve had for a while.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
whoops
I think I was going to say I let him know that I didn’t have $800 right now, and that I would have the other $400 next week
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
When you've been living in your parent's basement for that long,
$400 for a shoebox= kickass apartment.
/j/k chitown congrats
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
here is why it is good for me
it is above a business that is open while I’m at work. I can play my Marshall half stack, my Ampeg bass cabinet, or that drumset I’m going to buy in the not too distant future with no worries. it has mid sized bedrooms… it has laundry in the unit, which is fucking awesome…. so sick of using laundromats. and the icing on the cake is the deck on back that connects to the top of a garage that is not dangerous/it is sturdy enough to walk around on. lawn chairs and laptop on the roof!
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
cool
sounds like a win-win-win-win situation. I am so very glad that I’ve never had to deal with all that. I’ve had the same house since I was about 21. I bought it from my brother when he moved.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
You think you can get away with having a grill on the roof?
That would just put it right over the moon.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure I will end up doing that
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Where abouts are you moving to?
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
southsiiiiiiiiiiiiiide
pilsen. won’t really be that far away from white sox ballpark
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You have fun with that...
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
At least he won't have to deal with Cubs fans.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't either...
I avoid Wrigleyville bars and don’t fall into any really dumb conversations I hear. Plus I don’t have to deal with Sox fans… who tend to be a different kind of annoying than Cub fans present.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
I could deal with Sox fans just on common ground principles.
Not that I would want to live near any but I figure if I had to choose.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I live about 3/4 a mile from Wrigley
and I find that as long as I avoid Wrigleyville itself the Cub fans I encounter are baseball fans who root for the Cubs… not Cub fans if you get the difference I’m going for.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
Gotcha
That would make a slight difference.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i always have a hard time deciding
if i’m a baseball fan who roots for the cards or a cards fan
that probably sounds like blasphemy on a blog like this, but if the cards were all of a sudden to fall off the face of the earth, i don’t know how easy it would be for me to just go, “oh, i guess i’m a rays fan now now exclusively” or whatever
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
I'm a Cards fan
I don’t know if I could bring myself to root for another team if it didn’t happen organically.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
sorry I don't like living in yuppie neighborhoods
I’ll take the bohemian artist neighborhood any day
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh I'm stumbling distance from about 9435325 bars
I’m happy here.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
once you've been in chicago for longer you will realize that you are throwing your money away
unless you really want to live by the lake
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I like where I'm at.
It’s nice being a 10 minute walk from the lake, and a 5 minute walk from the train.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
okay, that wasn't so bad
i’m already back. it took like 5 minutes total including driving there and back
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Did you get your junk felt up?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
That's funny.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
coulda swore i responded to this
but no. she didn’t even do my inseam. just my outseam
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
They don't do inseams anymore for fear of sexual harrassment.
They are actually not supposed to touch you at all. The BS that idiot people with a lawsuit fetish can come up with. Although, I guess it could’ve happened to precipitate such a law change but a lot of that crap is ridiculous.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 30, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
i was touched
does this mean i can get paid?
nah, i can’t do that. she was nice enough to measure me for free even though i’m getting my tux from some place in columbia and the place where i got measured is in central texas
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
Am I the only one that owns a tux
I have owned a few tuxes. The best thing I ever did was by a tux in college. I was the backup plan for sorority girls. I had random sorority girls put my name in their phone as “Tux Guy”. I went to so many dances with so many girls in 4 years. It was all for the delicious food that I wasn’t paying for, Mmmm prime rib
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 30, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
yankees closing in on berkman
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/yankees-close-to-acquiring-lance-berkman.html
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter
at least he'd be out of our division
and it would be the official end of the killer b’s
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
don't they have Tex?
I guess Berk would be DH?
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Line up - I like it
Lopez 3b
Jay RF
Pujols 1b
Holliday LF
Rasmus CF
Molina C
Ryan SS
Carp P
Skip 2b
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
that roto sidebar says freese hopes to start a rehab assignment sunday or monday
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
...
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Jul 30, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
...This image needs to be in every thread
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
it's jeff f. karstens
cards are in a tough spot with jay playing well and lud being a little hurt. might need to trade one of them.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
Jay is a nice #2
but where’s RFL?? he must not be 100% yet
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
or maybe there's ulterior motives with playing Jay so much
trade chip?
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Playing the hot hand right now
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
if we're playing the hot hand then jay plays CF and colby sits
/not advocating that scenario
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."