Trade Deadline Post
by ap5mvp on Jul 29, 2010 7:26 PM EDT
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Print[Azru edit: We'll turn this into a trade deadline catchall thread.]
OK, now that Roy Oswalt is officially off the market with the Phillies (they should have never even let Lee go), where/who should Fatty and Co. focus on now?
Some reports are that we are in the Ted Lilly sweepstakes and that's about it. After watching us give up the lead last night (poor Jaime) and the same with the Cubs this past weekend, should we really look for a starter or should we look for some bullpen help or should we look for a bat? By the way, Mike Macdougal will win us some games, he has good stuff and with pitching God D. Duncan on his side who knows.
I have said before that i would love to try and move Skip and Luddy for various reasons. I know that Dunn is on the block and a huge defensive liability, but that would certainly bolster our line up.
So to end this i will say we either need to go after some bullpen help and not put so much on our young guys or give us some more pop in our bat and say "In Waino, Carp, Jaime, and Duncan we trust!"
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Right
Right field and i would platoon Colby and JJ. Colby is very cold right now and really can’t handle lefties. JJ (who i love) is still not quite, but can be, an everyday player. We get Dunn, who i think in the last year of his contract, and have him bat 5th behind Holliday and now he gets more protection and BEEFS up our line up.
Ozzie is, was, and always will be the greatest Cardinal!
Dwight Howard is inviting you to the BLOCK party!
Is Gerald the real McCoy?
dunn would be the worst right fielder in the history of baseball
he was already about the worst left fielder. and who the hell would you trade for dunn – i gotta believe the nats want to move him, but also that there are plenty of interested teams with plenty of goods to give. are you suggesting the nats would take luddy and schu? i don’t think so, as in a million years. noboby wants schu, and whoever wants luddy would want him because they are in contention NOW (as we are). luddy in right is far more valuable to us than dunn in right (just the thought of dunn in right makes me chuckle).
and this platoon of jay and colby, unless colby just needs some days off, is craziness.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
You realize the Ludwick, the guy currently playing RF, has been worth more than Adam Dunn this year, right?
And the Dunn is quite possibly the worst outfielder in the history of the game.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
A few things.
Dunn:
We don’t have anywhere near the prospects to acquire Dunn outside of Shelby Miller, and the Nationals value him highly, so there is no trade here. They want to extend him rather than trade him away, as they have no ready prospect at 1b.
Dunn, throughout his career, has proved that his great bat is negated when he mainly plays in the outfield, because he is so awful there.
Lilly:
Ted Lilly scares the bejesus out of me. The fact that he isn’t throwing as many fastballs as he did earlier in his career and the lost velocity on said fastball screams to me that he is due for a steep decline. He relies strictly on his off-speed stuff this year it seems. Maybe I am just a bit paranoid, but, at least in my opinion, this seems indicative of a pitcher that will eventually blow up. Also, his K/9 has decreased noticeably and his BB/9 has increased.
He currently sports a 4.5 FIP and 4.49 xFIP. The problem is, will we be paying for a pitcher who has a 4.5 FIP? Or the pitcher who has a 3.69 ERA in a very thin trading market for starting pitchers? I think the price will be too high, especially to a team within the division, to reasonably attain Lilly for a good price.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Lilly and Yadi would not get along
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
we like our fanposts to be a little more in depth and to have sabermetrics happenin
maybe next time do a fanshot discussion
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2010 9:00 PM EDT reply actions
why do they need sabermetrics, necessarily?
some of my favorite ones have been pendleton’s about baseball cards, game faces, HOF, etc. yes, this particular one screams out for some numbers, but with many others it’s not really necessary.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'm just de rigueur at the moment
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
you and your fancy words
i think you spelled it correctly, so bonus points.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Thank You
People are too hyped about sabermetrics this was thread to get people talking about what we should or focus on now, i never said the nats would want skip or luddy, i just said (and cardball would know because we got in it a previous posting) i just want them gone for various reasons. i have seen plenty of fanposts without sabermetrics!
Ozzie is, was, and always will be the greatest Cardinal!
Dwight Howard is inviting you to the BLOCK party!
Is Gerald the real McCoy?
Please remember that you are on
a sabermetrically inclined blog. Chitown was just trying to point out that when you start a fanpost saying we should trade a player for another, it’s best to have facts to back it up. AYou’re suggesting trading 2 core players for one that is a huge defensive liability. According to FG, RFL has been worth 2.5 WAR this year compared to 2.8 for Dunn. Dunn’s value will sink as soon as he goes into right. His TTO will not be worth his defensive liability. In addition, the remainder of Dunn’s contract would cost more than a full year of RFL. So, before dismissing us that use sabermetrics, just remember:
RYAN FUCKING LUDWICK DOES NOT APPROVE OF ALL THIS TRADE RYAN LUDWICK TALK.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jul 29, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I understand
If you read the post, i was saying who i would like to trade and the possibilities of who is available. i even stated he would be a liability in the outfield but can bolster our line up. this was a “what do you think” post. Nothing based on stats! but i do feel that you Dunn to the line up, it would give a true big three in the middle of it and the fact that there have been MANY complaints about our offensive on this site, i would see that coming to an end. our pitching is great, especially when healthy, and our offensive is what lacks. i think a lot of teams would take Adam Dunn over Luddy. if we were willing to take on Oswalts contract, which is much higher than Dunn’s, why not? im not even saying is the best fit, it was a suggestion!
Ozzie is, was, and always will be the greatest Cardinal!
Dwight Howard is inviting you to the BLOCK party!
Is Gerald the real McCoy?
I don't think you understand my point.....
Just about any value that Dunn would add with his bat, he would give up in the field, on this team.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I do
understand it. i even wrote in the post that i know he would be a liability. I would deal with that and have his bat
Ozzie is, was, and always will be the greatest Cardinal!
Dwight Howard is inviting you to the BLOCK party!
Is Gerald the real McCoy?
liability != HFS....Adam Dunn in right?
Adam Dunn was worth -22.8runs uzr (-38.9 uzr/150)…It’s roughly a 20 run difference between him and RFL on defense. Do you really think he can make up 20 runs over Luddy with the bat to justify the trade?
Also, it’s a well known fact that Adam Dunn hates America, apple pie, and everyone’s mother…he’d never make it in fly over country.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
and full disclosure,
Dunn looks to be aboot 20 runs better with the bat %.
% remember that RFL!!! has missed a month, however.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Kind of offset Brendon?
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Adam Dunn needs to be at first base or DH
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say not to post
just saying that in fanshots there’s a chat function, trying to funnel stuff into the right places. maybe being an accountant is getting to me heh
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Okay, they don't need to be sabermetrics
But it would be nice if they had a little bit of meet in them. I don’t really care. At any rate, a fanpost about possible mid-season trade acquisitions (the ultimate exercize in quantifying value) better have some damn sabermetrics in it.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 30, 2010 6:00 AM EDT up reply actions
i did say this particular one screams out for some numbers, vep
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Ahem!
I say, ahem!!
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
RYAN FUCKING LUDWICK DOES NOT APPROVE OF ALL THIS TRADE RYAN LUDWICK TALK.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jul 29, 2010 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
And I agree with Ludwick.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
The focus needs to be on what chips of real trade value do the Cards really have .....
Cards have some valuable players but they have very little surplus value. In other words who do they have that would have good trade value that they do not need themselves. Answer to that question is very little. They need everyone who other teams might really value and want.
They have depth in the outfiield with the emergence of Jay, but Jay is not going to net you a stud in return. Rasmus on the other hand might get some serious return but should the Cards really trade Rasmus. I do not think so, but I also believe that the team with Jay in CF and the talent that Rasmus would net in a trade might be the best way to improve this team.
For example, Rasmus as a centerpiece coupled with other players who the Cards could spare might actually get you Steven Drew, Kelly Johnson, and Edwin Jackson. If Rasmus is not in that package as the centerpiece then there is no way.
Not saying that I would trade Rasmus. I think Rasmus in the longterm will be a much better player than Jay but if this is about improving the overall team then I would have to think about it. Cards need a pitcher and a SS and 2B.
I have no idea if there is any thought to trading Rasmus but it appears to me that if the Cards are going to make a significant move that Rasmus would have to be involved.
even if they traded rasmus straight up for jackson, drew, and johnson
i’d hate that trade, for many, many, beaucoup reasons.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Rasmus should never get traded
i think you’re underestimated just how valuable a potential 4+ WAR player is under market value for 4 more years because he’s under team control. And if we’re lucky, the Cardinals FO thinks like the Cardinals fans and underrates him because his average and high K total make him seem worse than he is….
For instance I believe a 4+ WAR player is worth 17 million and Rasmus has the potential to do more than that in the future. We are paying him 500 K this year, next year is under 5 million, and after that I think he’ll have a team friendly contract avoiding arbitration….. point being, these are the kinds of players we need if we want to keep Albert…
also John Jay, who is good for a .740-.760 OPS at league average with plus defense would be worth probably 2 WAR at best, which is worth 8 million. But IMO that’s his ceiling so its not worth the tradeoff…..
the Dbacks trade is not only going to get rejected, its also not a good trade for us…. Drew is soon entering arbitration and is barely more valuable than Tyler Greene expect Greene is getting paid nothing…. Kelly Johnson is due for a payday next year so we’ll lose him….. and Edwin Jackson is going to get some money after next offseason…. so that’s 2 months of Johnson, 1 season and 2 months of Jackson, and probably 1 or 2 years of Drew
that’s $3.42 million the rest of the year + 8 million to Jackson + 5+ million to Drew
that’s $16 million for 3 seasons of those players
for Colby Rasmus who is potentially worth 17 million a year but getting paid a sum of less than 20 million or something over FOUR years…..
not sure why Rasmus would have to to be traded, i don’t know why stl fans think so lowly of him…. probably has to do with his “issues” with TLR which are sorta tony’s fault and his high K rate
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 30, 2010 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Excellent summary of why you do not trade Rasmus .....
However, it is also an excellent explanation of why Rasmus has so much value and why he would bring excellent value in return. Cards have said they want an impact bat, they do not want a band aid. My point, is that Rasmus may be the only one who could net such a haul because he is so valuable.
I do not trade Rasmus either and said so. I would try to move Ludwick in a deal with the Giants for pitching because of the Cardinal financial restraints that you outlined in your post. Ludwick had one great year and has not produced anywhere near that level this year. Jay is a better fit for the two hole and Rasmus is a better fit for the five spot.
don't talk about luddy
they will get you. i have talked about moving Luddy plenty of times and every time i do i get bombarded with Luddy lovers saying not to move him and so on and so forth. Thank you for making my point about Luddy in your 2nd sentence, last paragraph. been preaching that for a while online and off. Come Luddy lovers, where you at?
Ozzie is, was, and always will be the greatest Cardinal!
Dwight Howard is inviting you to the BLOCK party!
Is Gerald the real McCoy?
Right here!
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It's fine to trade
Luddy if there is a return that helps the team. The problem is that when you trade Luddy, there is a hole. Whether or not he’s performing like 2008, he’s one of the top bats on this team, one that Jay cannot fully replace. He’s not some extra that we have laying around. We need him more than what we’re likely to get in return for him.
by WyoCardsFan on Jul 30, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
these are things that i have said and i get crushed for it, but the way Jay is playing he could be a solid relief for Luddy as long as we get return. thats why I say trade and not release.
Ozzie is, was, and always will be the greatest Cardinal!
Dwight Howard is inviting you to the BLOCK party!
Is Gerald the real McCoy?
I want to keep him.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, what?
I’m pretty sure aside from the first sentence, that’s not what you said.
Anyway, Jay is playing over his head. There’s no reason to believe he’s anything more than we thought he would be, which is a serviceable player, but not exactly as good as Ludwick.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
How long does he have to hit like this until we believe
I wonder.
by Mulliganstew on Jul 30, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd need at least 250 and probably closer to 500 PA. Over this small of a sample size, it really is chance.
The fact remains that he has an unrealistic babip on all balls in play – and no, I’m not saying that I won’t believe until his babip falls to .300, but you can’t expect me to look at a guy hitting .930 on line drives, a Milesian .350 on grounders and a .300 babip on flies. That just doesn’t happen without the bloopers falling in and the ball always finding a hole.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
I'm not saying he's Ted Williams or anything
But I could see him hitting .300 with a little bit of pop. He’s got a nice swing.
by Mulliganstew on Jul 30, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And at the corners, that's a 4th outfielder
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
RYAN FUCKING LUDWICK DOES NOT APPROVE OF ALL THIS TRADE RYAN LUDWICK TALK.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jul 30, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i'm curious what these "issues" with TLR are
has there been a fallout since their meeting of the minds in the spring?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
exactly why i put them in quotes
remember when colby and TLR had a disagreement and the PD boards went crazy?
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 31, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
are you talking about when colby was sleepwalking
and tony benched him a game or two? i don’t think there was a disagreement on that, any more than when maddon benches upton in tampa.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
no... i can't remember
somebody (probably strauss) wrote an article mentioning how TLR and Colby had a a bunch of misunderstandings and then everybody cried how he was another mental case
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
I don't know that
STL fans think so lowly of him. Some folks here seem to think (or did) that he’s about the greatest thing since sliced bread. That was back in early June. Did they sour on him already?
I doubt that Colby has any issues with TLR. If he does he’s not in any position to say anything.
He seems, to me, to understand that he’s made it to the bigs and he’s quietly following all the instructions he’s getting, not making any waves.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Folks here are not really representative of StL fans as a whole.
The majority of fans are those who aren’t exactly inclined to do sabermetric research, or even to look beyond average and strikeouts and home runs. Therefore they’re likely to underrate Colby, and they do.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
Dan Haren, obviously
or even Maicer Izturis, since the Angels are apparently now sellers, according to MLBTR, what with the Pineiro injury and all. Bit more expensive, but under control for 2 more years, and he’s basically Felipe Lopez with good defense.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
they should pick up the phone, we've had some good trades with the Angels
funny thing is, the moment Haren went to the Angels I was thinking about this heh
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
They may be sellers
but I don’t think Haren would be one of the guys on the block. I would guess they’d be looking to move guys like Torii Hunter (because of his contract), or Howie Kendrick (since he’ll be hitting arbitration, although he’s sucked so bad this year that he might not make much in arbitration anyway). I would also think they’d be willing to move one of their catchers (Mathis) as well, although it would be hard to find a buyer for him as he’s been so putrid this season.
I would think a team like the White Sox might be interested in Hunter, but not too many others I’d imagine.
I would think they’d keep Haren and look to build for next year — if they can move Hunter’s contract they’ll have a lot to spend on the 2010-2011 market.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Who could we get
for LaRusa?
I’m ready for a New Focus.
I may be in the minority here but I think our biggest problem is second base and manager.
I would like to see #10 retire and go help animals or something…as long as Duncan stayed.
Ever see one of those games during the season that just tells you “this is our year” or tells you “it aint gonna happen”?
Last night’s game was one of those for me and it said “it aint gonna happen”.
This team is just flat. There are individuals that are doing well but as a whole there is no spark. Even if we can win the division I don’t see that as some great achievement and I don’t see us doing much beyond that. There are too many problems on this team. It’s running mostly on glue and paperclips.
Who, exactly, makes up the bench, for example? Albert, Matt & Yadi are the only regulars.
Is everybody else fighting for a job or is all this shuffling suppose to keep everybody sharp? Usually, players tend to play best when they know their roles and get to play.
I don’t think another good arm or another bat is going to make that much difference, really.
Rather than speculate on who we could trade, I’m more focused on who we should keep…for next year. I don’t have enough faith in this year to spend much more on it.
The short goal is to win the division. Then there’s the playoffs. I don’t think we have the make-up of a team strong enough to win anything more than this weak division unless things start to click in several areas in a BIG HURRY. I just don’t see it happening.
I’m not trying to throw mud on somebody’s prom dress but that just seems like the realistic picture to me. This looks more like an evaluation year than a serious run.
Miles, Greene, Shu, Lopez/Freeze…doesn’t sound like a winner. We can win with the pitching we have but not with the infield. It will be interesting to see what management has up it’s sleeve.
IMO
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 1:16 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
move lopez to 2nd once freese gets back
and yeah, new manager would be nice
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll buy that.
That would help.
If Freeze came back and played solid 3rd base (I think he will) and Lopez playing 2nd base better than he plays 3rd, that would help a lot.
If (big if) Freeze could come alive again with the bat he just might be the spark they need.
I’d still be on the lookout for a good 2nd baseman. Lopez might make a decent utility guy, especially since he’s a switch hitter.
Then maybe we could send Miles, Greene and Shu and Winn to Hoboken for their best prospect, maybe 2nd best if they insist.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
we have no need for Miles, Schu, Winn
what I am really worried about is if Stav somehow returns! holy crap that would suck
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree on listless and on playing to find who you got
why does miles start at 2nd over tea green (or flip floppy to 2nd and put tg at 3rd)? to me tinker’in tony is part of the problem and a substantial part this year.
listless, apu and to a lesser degree holliday, are nor earning their money and their play doesn’t support their status on the team. we need apu to be better not just for the on the field production, but to be inspiring. when he and holliday fail so often it bums them out and that rubs off on the others.
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
What a difference a day makes!
It will be interesting to see what management has up it’s sleeve.
Well now we know.
So what happens if the Cards don’t win the division now? Somebody’s head should roll!
I don’t think this really helped but we’ll just have to wait and see.
So, is the team now going to actually improve or get flatter or stay the same?
Did Mo do this because he felt that he had to do something?
I feel sick!
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 31, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Can this be right?
Jake Westbrook
69-71 over 10 seasons.
"We’ve been looking for a quality starting pitcher to add to our rotation for some time," Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak said in a statement. "Westbrook is someone we’ve had our eyes on for a good period of time."
69-71! That’s basically a .500 pitcher. Is that the definition of a quality starting pitcher?
I guess there’s a way to crunch the numbers to make it look better but I think having Ludwick on the field and in the line up every day is a better deal than having Westbrook on the mound every 5 days. Maybe Duncan can do something for him.
It’s going to take me awhile to swallow this and even longer to digest it. Right now I just want to spit it out.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 31, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Playing for the Indians
and developing. i think it was abvout two or three years ago when he had about 14/‘15 wins and was highin K’s. this before his injuries.. his possibility can make him a great pick up
Ozzie is, was, and always will be the greatest Cardinal!
Dwight Howard is inviting you to the BLOCK party!
Is Gerald the real McCoy?
Another pointless FanPost. FanShot this.
....my quick smells like french toast...
Twitter: @mstreeter06
not at all,
It generates discussion, therefore it has meaning.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
at least write more than three short paragraphs
sheesh, put some work into these people
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
if
this is not acceptable to you then creat on e of your own. i did not see fanpost about what the cardinals should be looking at now that the Roy Oswalt sweepstakes was over so i started a conversation. i did want to drag on about what i would think about everything that the cards should, especially w/o the precious sabermetrics! the whole point was to get cardinal nation talking about what they think and what they would want, but instead it turned into more bashing and wrong focus of the point. if you don’t like it read on and stop complaining.
Ozzie is, was, and always will be the greatest Cardinal!
Dwight Howard is inviting you to the BLOCK party!
Is Gerald the real McCoy?
check the community guidelines on fanposts
just saying that a fanshot chat would suffice for this
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you realize how out of the way fanshots are?
Name one fanshot in the last few months that got more than 100 posts.
by Mulliganstew on Jul 30, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is,
most one paragraph rants can be made in the daily discussion thread, thereby not pushing well thought and argued FP’s off of the front page. This has been turned into a catch all, so the point is moot, now.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm not sure if this means people should read the fanshots more
or if people aren’t commenting on them as much. regardless, there is a fanshot section and there is a place for chats and discussions, which is not a fanpost (fanposts are reserved for more in depth articles, at least, that’s how it’s been in the past). that said, this has now turned into trade deadline discussion default post. so there, that’s that.
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
And, I'm saying there's a reason no one posts on Fanshots.
They’re not on the main page. That defeats the whole purpose of discussion.
by Mulliganstew on Jul 30, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You're not on the main page
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I just noticed them.
I guess they’re so low on the page that I rarely get that far
by Mulliganstew on Jul 30, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
people really shouldn't overlook them
there’s a lot of good stuff there. not only chats and discussions, but links to great articles and peripheral info
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what computer you're using
but they are on the main page, just below the fanposts. you just want chats and discussions to be on the same level as researched articles or longer, more in depth fan writing? I don’t get it
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just saying don't expect people to use fanposts to go crazy talking
Especially when they’re so far down on the page. Also, lighten up on the norms. This reminds me of that lame anti-funny images rant that was posted here months back. Sometimes light discussion IS as important as numbers. It builds community… and humanity.
by Mulliganstew on Jul 30, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just saying don’t expect people to use fanposts fanshots to go crazy talking
don’t tell this to the robot!
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That's why we have daily discussion and gamethreads.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
That is because fanshots are generally less in-depth than fanposts
which in turn leads to less discussion.
Not at all,
it generates discussion, therefore it has meaning.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
i would personally hope
that the cards go after a starting pitcher more than a middle infielder. i am sick and tired of seeing soup and hawks back to back. those are both automatic losses. jake westbrook would be a good fit. i’ve seen aaron cook (rockies) tossed around, but he might be too much $.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
Our record in non-original-starting-rotation games:
Walters 1-1
Ottavino 1-2
Hawksworth 3-5
Suppan 2-6
So I agree that Soup and Hawk suck (Soup especially hasn’t been above replacement level since 2007), I’m not sure quite how much Cook (4.74 xfip) would help compared to a better hitter in the MIF, especially since if we sneak into the playoffs, our bottom-of-the-rotation won’t really matter at that point.
I do want Westbrook, though, who is almost certainly better than Lohse.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
I think we should get Adam Dunn
put Pujols on the DL for 2 weeks to get super rested, then move Adam Dunn into our new 4 man OF. Felipe Lopez plays left side, Skip plays middle and Albert plays right side.
Tony never thinks far enough outside the box.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 30, 2010 2:01 PM EDT reply actions
allen craig
could be our 4th OF and 1B backup. there’s no need for dunn, IMO. the cards should focus on SS/3B and SP.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
Waino's CG, 7/4/10
@zoomzoomj88
Fire Tony LaRussa
sacrifice minime to get that lineup!
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
what do you do with Freeze?
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Then we'll need a 3rd baseman again.
Freeze is the only 3rd baseman that makes sense.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be awesome!
except Skip can barely handle 1/4 of the IF, it would be a disaster if he had to get to everything up the middle.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Why the hell do the Yankees want Dunn?
wait, if the Yankees get done, and then extend his contract, that effectively takes them out of the hypothetical Pujols market. If that happens, I won’t have to read anymore of this “Pujols is destined to end up playing for the Yankees!!!!!” bullshit.
C’MON YANKEES, TRADE FOR ADAM DUNN
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
if they have Dunn as the DH
they really have no spot for him
get on my boat!
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
Considering they're a potential World Series opponent,
I’d prefer they didn’t have a guy with a .385 career wOBA manning their DH spot.
Just sayin…
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Cashman seems to want that spot to be fairly flexible,
so that he can rest players like A-Rod, Jeter, and Posada. Dunn can only play 1st without embarassing himself, and that spot is already manned by a guy who really doesn’t need much rest.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
This is what gets floated around.....
but if this was actually true, then why did they sign Nick Johnson in the offseason? Did they just plan to light $4M on fire anyway and figure they could get a player out of that instead?
I think if they could get Dunn without giving up their top prospect, they’d probably do it. If nothing else, they’d let him go at seasons end and grab a couple of draft picks when he signs elsewhere.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I just don't see why they even need him.
They still have at least the 2nd best lineup when healthy in the AL (Texas might be a bit better), and they have a staff that many can’t compare with. Seems over the top to me, and unless they are willing to give up one of Montero or Chamberlain, they won’t acquire him very easily. I think the main reason they would do it is to match Texas’ trading acquisitions.
For some reason I had the notion that Johnson could play some OF, but Fangraphs only has him playing like 7 innings or so, so I must be delusional. Maybe they wanted him to split time at DH with Arod/Jeter/Posada in order to have a good OBP hitter there while also resting some players? That makes sense to me anyway.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
now i gotta find out about another deal
anyway, how would dunn do as dh? he has stated his preference to play the field, which is why he wants to stay in the nl, so there’s no guarantee he would take well to dh’ing – not sure albert wouldn’t have a dropoff himself if not involved on both sides of the ball.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I hate Dunn for that reason alone, he's not about doing what's best for the team instead he wants what he wants.
which is fine, but it really gets to me that he’s not about winning. Heck I remember when he was traded to arizona, you could tell he had football more on his mind than baseball when he played.
Dunn said he would be fine DHing for the rest of the year, I think today or yesterday.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
So if we would get Aaron Cook
would that put us on the “loosers” list when the media does their “Winners and Loosers” of the deadline articles?
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
I hope so
this team does seem the need to be looser.
and if we get someone that is an upgrade over Suppan, without costing too much prospect wise, who cares what the hell the media thinks
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
Cook ain't much of an upgrade though.
Don’t get me wrong, he isn’t as terrible, but he seems to be firmly below average.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
Plus I hate that they only seem to want to get guys
That Duncan MIGHT be able to work some “magic” with. Too much of a gamble at this point.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
Yikes I botched that "Losers" LOL!!!
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
A washed up pitcher of course
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
you don't want to know what
google images says it is.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
This is what I found for "Looser"
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
he's very loose there
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Needs more pinky if he wants to hang
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Just get the Rockies to throw in Chris Nelson
Then we can kill two birds with one stone and we don’t have to get so angry about Cook.
Buster Olney tweet
Heard this: The Indians are getting significant hits on Jake Westbrook, and they’re sorting through things. STL a fit? We’ll see.
http://twitter.com/buster_espn
getting excited…
westbrook is like a bandaid to get your broken down car home, but you still need a new car
it would help, but i can’t use the word “excited”
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
Excited
Standing by it. Today, he’s our fourth best pitcher and every month between him and Tommy John is helpful.
i liek it,
but then saw who reported it, and have trouble nto equating Olney with my 4 yr old when it comes to “responsible” journalism anymore..everyone makes mistakes, but im a little gun shy when it comes to him right now.
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
He's a Georgia boy (Athens, at that!)
Waino and Boggs would love another
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Jul 30, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
...is from Alabama
5 miles over the border, but the border’s there for a reason
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Jul 30, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I was born in Tennessee
I don’t consider myself from Tennessee. He was born in Columbus, which is right across the river from his hometown of Phenix City. The river is the state border. The hospital is probably better in Columbus than in Phenix City.
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Jul 31, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
How is westbrook or cook NOT
an upgrade over soop or Hawk? Id get rid of Ghetto booty(soop) and put hawk back in the pen.
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
Hawk is pretty decent as a starter
He also costs no prospects to use and is getting paid nothing, which is exactly what I want in a 5th starter.
If we were to go after someone, I would check on Carmona or Cook really, with some money involved if possible.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Hey, c'mon. He's not decent, he's crappy. He's cheap and serviceable, but he sucks.
Soup, on the other hand, is just terrible – yeah, he doesn’t cost anything either, but…He hasn’t been worth positive WAR since 2007 (!!!)! I’d love to replace him with damn near anyone, but Westbrook is a good pick.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
Yeah, he's been seriously terrible. IMO if you insert a replacement level player into the rotation, he better be someone you already are paying.
Don’t go out and get someone extra who’s terrible.
אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס
No, I still like him.
He gives up 3 or 4 ER’s a game, which is fine with me, and he’s free essentially. As long as he doesn’t have to pitch in the playoffs, I am fine with him.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
You have a right to a different opinion
even though it is completely wrong :).
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Something to consider:
We may not make a deal at all.
And
This may not be the worst thing in the world.
I think our front office is kicking the tires on just about anyone that can help our ballclub, but i think they’re finding a market that is flush with guys that either require significant cost to pick up in terms of dollars (salary dumps) OR significant talent to acquire, something we don’t really have.
To me, the season to this point seems a lot like 2006, especially at the end of July. We made three pickups that season:
- Ronnie Belliard (via trade of Hector Luna)
- Preston Wilson (signed as a FA when JEd got hurt)
- Jeff Weaver (signed as a FA to bolster rotation depth)
We also had Chris Duncan come up and give us 350 AB’s of .950 OPS, but you could make the case that Jon Jay is giving us similar production (albeit with less playing time until lately).
Basically, we took three FAT guys to get us through the month of August and September, hoping that this team would make the playoffs in a shitty division and get healthy in the process, giving us a shot to make a run in a poor National League that season. Which, it turns out, is exactly what happened — we got a great October from Weaver, Suppan, and Wainwright and one fantastic start from Reyes. But the guys who were on the roster picked up the play (Spiezio, Taguchi, etc.) that put us over the top while the 2 of the MV3 struggled for most of the second half with injury and ineffectiveness.
This team is far more talented at the top than that team was. Our rotation is loads better, as is our bullpen. Pujols 2010 isn’t as good as Pujols 2006 thus far, but Holliday, Rasmus, Ludwick, and Jay is loads better than the outfield we sported that season, and Rolen was our second best hitter and was pretty ineffective for the months of August and September.
I think making a cheap move for someone like Westbrook would be a good, safe move that wouldn’t cost a lot. He would give us a 4th starter, and allow Lohse to move into the fifth spot if/when he returns. If Lohse comes back, we can skip Jaime’s turn in the rotation a couple of times to save him for the stretch run. If we get Penny back, we’ve just bolstered our bullpen.
I’d love to see us upgrade our middle infield, but I think the fish are asking for too much for Dan Uggla, Stephen Drew really isn’t a huge upgrade and has significant cost, and there isn’t really anyone else out there that can help without us having to take on a significant contract.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
no deal is better than a bad deal
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree
but it might mean a quicker end to the season, but at least it wont cost u in 2011-???
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
NO
I hate that dude
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Jul 30, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm willing to carry Boog.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 30, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Even the Cubs fans don't like him
From what I’ve read on BCB.
"I told myself from the very beginning: 'If he's going to throw a shutout, then he's going to tie,'" Wainwright said. "He was not going to beat me today."
...is about to get expensive.
I also don’t know that he’s much of an upgrade to be honest. Ryan is better than he is defensively, and he’s having a horrific year at the plate. At his best he’s Skip Schumaker at the plate, and I think we already have enough of those guys.
I’d almost rather take a chance on prying Howie Kendrick loose from that Angels.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
We get it
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
by jd is legend on Jul 30, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
if you said we HAD to make a trade, we made one!
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 31, 2010 1:45 PM EDT reply actions
I'm sellin' my "Mo for President" button!
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 31, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I might get some takers in San Diego.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 31, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Luddy would have departed in the offseason anyway
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 31, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Somehow
that would have been a little easier to take.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Aug 1, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
can we at least wait for the (post)season to end
before we decide what’s easy to take?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
good medicine
can make you feel better in the long run but can still taste bad when you swallow it.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Aug 1, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
why?
i think we’re talking about feelings here. sure, time heals, but right now most if not all of the cards are sad to lose luddy too. however luddy and westbrook perform the rest of the season, and their teams, isn’t going to change how one feels now.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Fair enough
but the quality of this trade at least partially depends on how the rest of this season goes.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
I disagree
When TLR makes questionable in-game decisions, and the team ends up winning, does that make the decisions have better quality?
"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles
I got my wish
and i know you guys seem to ahte it, but it will work out.
Ozzie is, was, and always will be the greatest Cardinal!
Dwight Howard is inviting you to the BLOCK party!
Is Gerald the real McCoy?
trading luddy was not a shock
i’ve been expecting it all season, but the return i thought was a little light. of the three teams involved, i think san diego helped themselves the most for the least given up.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the defense
on Luddy against me has been big. even you didn’t like me saying it. the one guys with the whole RFL doesn’t approve of all this trade talk was bashing me for wanting to get rid of him.. now that he has been traded would you rather of seen us get Dunn or Lilly?
Ozzie is, was, and always will be the greatest Cardinal!
Dwight Howard is inviting you to the BLOCK party!
Is Gerald the real McCoy?
I'm trying to digest what you're saying here
but I can’t make sense of it. I’m probably reading it wrong but I don’t understand what you’re saying.
but…Dunn or Lilly? Neither one if the cost was Ludwick straight up. I’d rather we’d not made a trade at all than the one we made.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Aug 1, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
what im
saying is, is that through these post and some other trade rumor post i have stated i would like to trade Luddy and it would be looked frowned upon. now i started this post about what to do since Roy was off the market and i made 2 suggestions, that apparently pissed off the VEB nation, and it was Dunn and Lilly. i was just asking since now that we did trade Luddy and people don’t westbrook(who i think will be a great addition, i pinned him for 15 wins before the season started) would they have rather had dunn or lilly. people were saying how dunn is not as good a luddy and lilly makes no sense and so on and so forth, but since what we got is westbrook would they have rather had dunn or lilly.
Ozzie is, was, and always will be the greatest Cardinal!
Dwight Howard is inviting you to the BLOCK party!
Is Gerald the real McCoy?
i think most would have been fine had we received a damn good prospect
from san diego, plus westbrook, for luddy. that would be a much better deal than lilly or dunn straight-up for luddy.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Ok, thanx.
I guess I answered correctly.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Aug 1, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
no, dunn has no place here with apu, and westbrook is as good as lilly
and i dislike lilly. i would have preferred either luddy for a younger big-league pitcher, maybe from atlanta, or else to have gotten back a damn good prospect from san diego to go along with westbrook.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
waiver prospects AL east
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/08/waiver-trade-candidates-al-east.html
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
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