Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

Upcoming Roster Moves

Ok, so with Ludwick coming off the DL, we saw Allen Craig bussed back down to Memphis. Well, now what will happen when/if everyone else is eligible to come off the DL? What could we see this year?

Star-divide

Our disabled list as of today, July 26, is this:

  • David Freese (15 day DL since of 6/28). I don't see Freese, who should be eligible to come off the DL Wednesday, coming back for another month due to the fact that he wasn't close to coming back before he broke his toe. This guy and his self-induced foot injuries...
  • Kyle Lohse (60 day DL since of 5/23). The news about Lohse is encouraging. Honestly, if a pitcher has surgery during the season, I write him off for the season. But apparently Lohse is on pace to be back by August. Well, at least he's trying to live up to that contract.
  • Adam Ottavino (15 day DL since 7/4). Poor Ottavino seems to have been forgotten, which sounds about right, seeing how forgettable his performance was. He's going to try to rehab his shoulder back to health, instead of getting the recommended surgery.
  • Nick Stavinoha (15 day DL since 7/12). Fat Suppan's temporary demise allowed the stars to align, freeing Allen Craig from purgatory for about 10 days. His injury was none too serious and I expect him to be ready to return to the club after his short rehab assignment.

 

Now, having watched the roster management this year, one knows that as long as a veteran (qualifications: ML contract, out-of-options) is doing something right, his job is safe. Rookies are just temporary reinforcements. Therefore the chopping block, the list of those to be ousted from the ML team is as follows [(o) means player still has options]:

Infield: Tyler Greene(o), Aaron Miles, Brendan Ryan, Felipe Lopez, Skip Schumaker, Alber...

Greene has options. It's easiest just to send him down. No one has to be DFA'd. No Veteran is carelessly cast aside. No one's feelings are hurt. Suck it up, rookie, etc. etc. Brendan Ryan I initially had ahead of Miles, but I figure that if he still gets starts while batting the way he is, his job is safe for this season. Besides, the way the roster is constructed, Greene is the only one who will have to get booted because of DL activations.

Now, if we were to trade for a SS (more than a rental) like a Stephen Drew, and no ML infielders are included in the trade, sadly I have to think that Brendan Ryan would get the short end of the stick and be DFA'd. Trading for a multi-year SS would essentially mean we're done with Boog and are willing to trade prospects to go in a different direction. [Before you get all worked up, I don't think we can't afford to do this, so I'm confident he's safe. For now.] Also, I don't think Tony or Mo is going to let Aaron Miles, someone they perceive to be so versatile, go. Plus they get to gloat to Chicago and Cincinnati that they gave division rivals a useful part.

**DISCLAIMER- I strongly dislike Aaron Miles' presence on this team and am fully aware of how vomit inducing my last two sentences were. I hope you survived.

Outfield: Jon Jay(o), Randy Winn

Jon Jay has been great in his second stint with the Cards, but is the only non-Colby member of this outfield with options and is, after all, just a rookie. Jon Jay's role is just utility OF and Pinch Hitter. Randy Winn can back up Colby in center, so Jon Jay is not necessary for that role. Randy Winn is a veteran, yadda yadda yadda, he stays.

Catcher: I've read a lot of support from people hoping for a call-up of Brian Anderson. Injury is the only thing that will bring him to the Cardinals this year (again). LaRue is cheap and knows the pitching staff. He's a vet. He'll stay.

Pitching: Fernando Salas(o), Jeff Suppan, Blake Hawksworth, Mitchell Boggs(o). All else aren't going anywhere.

Every pitchers' transaction seems to include Salas. I can't keep straight when he's on the team or not. That he's been good, and yet expendable says a lot about how far our bullpen has come and how good a season it is having. Should Lohse actually come back next month (or we trade for Oswalt, Westbrook, Nolasco, et al.) I believe Salas has a Megabus to catch, and Hawksworth becomes the longman. The rotation is then Wainwright, Carp, Garcia, somebody, Suppan.

But if both Lohse and Penny get healthy, or one gets healthy and we acquire another starter (or we acquire 2 starters - gettin' crazay) I think Suppan is expendable. He was picked up off waivers to fill a hole. I would hope no one in the Cardinals' front office has gotten too attached to 86 ERA+ and BB/9 of almost 4. I don't know if Suppan would accept being sent down or if he'd just retire. I bet if the Cardinals promise him a September call-up, he would. It's a chance for a ring, why would you turn that down?

Ottavino was just the least bad choice ahead of Hawksworth and Suppan as a rotation replacement. Now that the other two have built up some stamina in the rotation, even a healthy Ottavino doesn't supplant them.

So, blindly assuming no more injuries the rest of the year, activation from DL goes as follows:

  • Stavinoha to Cardinals, Jay to Memphis
  • Freese to Cardinals, Greene to Memphis
  • Lohse to Cardinals, Salas to Memphis
  • Penny to Cardinals, Salas to Memphis (if Salas is already in Memphis, DFA Suppan)
  • Ottavino to Memphis

Comment 102 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Yeah, pretty sure we worked out he has an option left.

Jay and Winn, I think, will stay, which leaves us a bit light on right-handed hitters but I can’t see any way either gets dumped or sent back to memphis.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 26, 2010 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

He has options

Placed on the 40 man roster 6-22-2008, first option used in 2008, second in 2009, third and final option will be used this season.

by ubeddie on Jul 26, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep....

…I think Stav goes on extended rehab while Jay proves his worth. I think Penny is done for the year, just have that feeling. If the Oswalt trade actually happens that would make the roster situation a bit clearer, but I’m not so sure it will at this point – apparently the ‘Stros already turned down one offer and they are having trouble making it work. The easier trade is to Philly anycow. But if Oswalt does come here, depending on who goes, I still see a DFA in Suppan’s future, as long as Lohse is pitching and Hawk and Salas are in the pen. The promise to Soup to bring him up in Sept. is one thing, but would we really include him on the play-off roster? I have my doubts…

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 26, 2010 8:50 AM EDT reply actions  

So why isn't Allen Craig getting (Memphis) time at 3b?

is his defense (i.e. arm) worse than FLopex’s? I love what Felipe has done this year, but seriously, he’s about to injure Albert or Skip with the errant throws.

For me replacing Freese with an impact bat is the key to the rest of the year. This move will allow Lopez to move to 2B, where he can platoon with replace Skip, thereby improving the offense AND defense.

"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning

by gocards62 on Jul 26, 2010 10:16 AM EDT reply actions  

replacing freese? you mean getting freese back right?

also

  • Ty Wigginton
  • Jorge Catnu
  • Johnny Peralta
  • also we could just sign Edwin Encarnacion or Anki. Iwamura to the majar league minimum(warning I have no idea if they haven’t already been signed)

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Jul 26, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is Encarnacion an unrestricted FA?

he’d be intriguing. He kinda sucks and seems a bit of a douche but he’s the sort of bat you can randomly catch lightning in a bottle with for half a year…

Not really interested in the other options for trade, though. I’d just wait on Freese, personally.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 26, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I concur w/FM
Not really interested in the other options for trade, though. I’d just wait on Freese

The internal 3b options (Mather, Gotay, Craig?) just as good as potential trades. Then that leaves players to combine in a deal for a Westbrook or Millwood type pitcher.

"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning

by gocards62 on Jul 26, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh yeah Gotay, he should get a shot

I don’t even know what he has done in memphis but I’m guessing he has ~20%BB rate.
and meh to mather at third, his bat has dropped off and his defense is questionable.

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Jul 26, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok 16.2 BB% and a OPS of .818 (OBP heavy)

he’s still playing 2b at memphis which would probably be better than skip.

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Jul 26, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think he was playing third

probably took second when descalso got hurt.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 26, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

He'd probably be better than Miles

albeit marginally. He’d have been my preference for a call-up when they promoted the little gritster.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2010 5:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jake Westbrook sheeple!!!

also some others

  • Duke
  • Bannister
  • Lily
  • Jackson
  • Millwood

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Jul 26, 2010 10:16 AM EDT reply actions  

I think Millwood might be injured now

also, Jackson/Lilly would be too expensive I think. I’d love to get Bannister or Duke, though, as long as it wasn’t too heavy on the prospects.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 26, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's owed quite a bit of money

I’d want them to swallow a little bit of that tbh, and maybe throw in a minor prospect.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 26, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

That sounds reasonable

I think we’re then on the hook for about $3m or so? IIRC he was owed $12m at the start of the year.

I think I’d send them a vaguely meaningful prospect in return.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 26, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Confusing Choices

It is hard to make sense of anything the way Tony moves everyone around and I think that is part of the defensive problems. Freese coming back up does present a problem and I would have to agree that Greene would probably be the odd guy out.

When you are trying to analyize this middle infield mess you cannot overlook the hitting side of the equation. It seems to me that Lopez has to be in the line-up to bat leadoff. His defense is not good but he seems to be no worse than Schumaker at 2B or Freese at 3B. I guess I would move him to 2B but I would be tempted to keep him at 3B. For my money I would keep Greene and let Miles go but I think you are correct that Greene is the odd man out. The other real possibility is that someone gets moved – Ryan, Greene and Freese might all be vunerable.

Surely Jon Jay does not get sent down as long as he is playing the way he is. He is their best outfielder right now and as long as he continues to produce they have to play him. No way Stav replaces him.

The pitching is no less confusing than the middle infielder. The Cards surely will pick up a starter of some type and Lohose looks to be back. Looks to me like a couple of guys get moved in a deal. I would guess that Hawks would have some value and could be moved as a fill-in piece. Boggs might also go in a trade leaving a spot for Salas but Salas probably just goes back down.

Trying to figure this out probably gives a good indication of which are the Cards might be trying to trade from. No place for Alan Craig, No Starting Spot for Jay, Got to Move a Pitcher if they add two – Suppan goes but someone would seem to need to go in a trade.

by Warcard on Jul 26, 2010 11:44 AM EDT reply actions  

What is wrong with the Royals?

Jesus Montero in talks for Joakim Soria, Royals not interested.

I get that soria is a really good closer but he’s going to be paid a lot and he’s a RELIEVER

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Jul 26, 2010 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Because Montero isn't staying behind the plate

And they have a logjam of 1B/DH types in their system right now with Butler, Kiahahue (sp?) and Hosmer with Gordon and Moustakas possibly ending up there since their defense is not so stellar. If the Royals could get a starting pitcher or an up the middle position player, which I think they can, it would be much better for their future.

Official sponsor of Fat Jesus.

by MattK on Jul 26, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Butler sucks at first so they put him at DH.

Kilahue(?) deserves to play there but dayton moore is an idiot. Moustakas is playing third, from what I heard that’s why Gordon is now a LF. And hosmer is probably the only real cog that hurts this trade but he’s still in AA and Montero is a top 5 pre season prospect. You always trade a reliever for a top 5 prospect.(heck there’s still the tiniest chance he stays behind the plate)

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Jul 26, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dayton Moore's idiocy not withstanding

It’s all about allocation of resources. 1B and DH are the two easiest postions to fill. Why would you add to a position where you already have strong prospects and its the easiest position to fill? You can only play one at each postion so having an excess of starters doesn’t make any sense. That’s why trading Brett Wallace for Holliday was an easy decision. We already had Pujols for at least the next couple years and needed a big bat left fielder. So we dealt from our strength to sure up a weakness. If the Royals deal Soria for Montero than they add to a position that’s already a strength and make a position that was a stength a weakness. This trade only makes sense if Montero can stay at catcher (he is given up stolen base a game at AAA with 15 pass balls) OR they flip him for another piece because they think he has more value than Soria. I’m willing to be persuaded that Montero has more value than Soria but I think its at least debatable and the Royals can at least be defended in this case for not jumping all over this trade.

God I can’t believe you made me defend the Royals front office. Shame has come to my family’s house.

Official sponsor of Fat Jesus.

by MattK on Jul 26, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying don't trade him.

I’m saying trade him for a player who plays a position that you don’t have a surplus like shortstop, second, CF, RF, etc.

Or give a chance to start.

Official sponsor of Fat Jesus.

by MattK on Jul 26, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Soria is locked up until 2014.

There is a very good chance, despite Dayton Moore, that they may stumble upon a good team. Plus, from 2010 to the 2014 season. He is being paid only 29.75m. That’s roughly 6m a year for one of the top 5 relievers in baseball.

They can ask for whatever the hell they want. Every competing team would love to have the guy. They don’t have to settle for a good prospect at a position they already have filled.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 27, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I doubt they get a better one-off prospect than Montero, though

I’m not saying they should’ve done the deal, but I’d be surprised if anyone offers a top-10 prospect for Soria again because those guys are like gold dust.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2010 5:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

If they aren't interested in Montero,

they should be looking to make a three-team trade where Montero goes to Oakland, Pitt, Chicago or somewhere else, and they get their hands on someone elses top prospects. They may not be able to optimally use Montero, but they just aren’t likely to get a prospect as valuable as him from any other team.

"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy

by hazel on Jul 27, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think they will quite easily in fact.

They would be essentially trading their 2nd or 3rd best player who is cost controlled for another trade chip that they won’t be able to use most likely, while leaving a huge gaping hole in the bullpen.

I know you can flip Montero for other pieces, but he is in the process of losing value due to his position change. I think they would prefer a Matt Wieters type prospect rather than a Montero, and they have some time to wait for one.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 27, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wieters >>>> Montero

I’m amazed somebody offered Montero for Soria. To get anything on the level of Wieters (or at least his stock at the start of 2009) would be incredible for a reliever.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

could the yanks have in mind something that has been much-debated

and that’s giving soria a go as a starter? not this year, obviously, when he’d bolster the pen, but going forward? yes, they do have rivera, but having soria too might allow alternating 2-inning save appearances, rather than soria being just a setup guy for mo.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 27, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe

also, like you say, he’s versatile and good enough to throw multiple innings, so it makes them pretty tough even if the SP goes out in the 6th inning (in a big game, Soria can throw the 7th and 8th and then Mo takes the 9th). I’m kinda surprised the Royals haven’t tried making him a SP in the past, though, and it’s a really interesting thought, given he’s got 4 plus pitches.

Overall, though, I suspect they’re just trying to virtually guarantee a world series ring. With Soria and Mo at the back of the pen, it literally becomes a 7-inning game, and with the starting pitching they’ve got, it’s going to be really hard to score enough runs against that lineup. So I guess Soria has a lot of value to them in terms of “win now” in the playoffs.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 28, 2010 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Soria as a starter

There was much debate when Soria first broke into the league of whether he should be moved to the rotation or stay as a closer. The Royals front office wanted to keep him in the closer role because they wanted there young team to win games when they got the lead and taste success. I guess they forgot that they actually have to have the lead for Soria to come into play. What does it hurt to try him in the rotation for a year and see what they have??? Maybe he sucks and they move him back to being a great closer. Or maybe he sticks and they have two stud starting pitchers that they can build around the next 5 years. It makes no sense for a team going nowhere to not try and maximize the value in their players.

Official sponsor of Fat Jesus.

by MattK on Jul 30, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am not.

The Yankees are looking for a long term reliever to replace Rivera when he eventually retires. Montero is effectively useless to the Yankees if he cannot play C, and to play him at DH would be somewhat of a waste.

But yes, Wieters was a much better prospect than Montero, which is precisely why I think the Royals will wait for a better prospect to come around. I think you underrate just how good Joakim Soria is. If the rest of his bullpen wasn’t complete garbage, or his offense actually scored runs, he would be in line for quite a few more saves. He even is capable of pitching 2 innings a night!

If I were the Royals, I would wait for some OF help or MIF help that is highly rated, rather than just take the best 1b/DH available.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 27, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think I'm under-rating Soria

He’s legitimately one of the top 3 relief pitchers in the game. Relief pitchers just aren’t worth that much, though, compared to everyday players, so even if Montero is “just” a good DH or 1B (and count me in as someone who doesn’t believe he can stay at C, AND as someone who objectively thinks sabr stats and WAR traditionally under-rates closers), I reckon he’s probably more valuable than Soria.

Also bear in mind that, even though Soria’s signed to a reasonable contract with three player options 2012-2014, he’s really only a bargain this year and next. He’s pretty much going to get paid what he’s worth the three years after that, though you could argue that the fact the options are team options is a benefit in terms of lowered risk.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 28, 2010 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

If the Oakland A's had Soria, we would be on the same page.

But the Royals won’t even be able to use Montero, unless you think he will be better than Butler or Hosmer. Why trade for a trade chip when they can deal for someone that directly benefits their team, like kicking the tires on Aaron Hicks or Mike Trout? That would be my first move anyway.

You may be right, maybe I overlook the aspect that Soria really is just a great reliever, but I think that some team, should the Royals want to deal him, would be desperate enough to offer some top prospects for him.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 28, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait.

Wieters was a BETTER prospect than Montero? I guess if he can’t play catcher that might be true, but Montero is the #1 prospect in all of baseball right now, at age 20, in AA. That’s pretty impressive, regardless of where he ends up playing.

Some are comparing his bat to Manny Ramirez.

I think they may try to work him in as a catcher. Posada never got any respect as a defensive catcher either, and he’s made it work for 14 seasons…

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 30, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

if montero is better than wieters

as a prospect, i’ll be a pirates fan.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 31, 2010 4:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seems weird to trade for the 2nd best closer in baseball

when you already have the best closer, and a bunch of other decent bullpen arms (depending on how the rotation fills out). I’m sure they can do better for Montero. Montero alone is (IMO, at least) better than what the DBacks got for Haren (and apparently the Yanks were vaguely in on him, too).

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2010 5:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Seems to me that Montero is being talked about in a lot of trades but no teams are really biting on him.

Perhaps GMs are frightened by the Yankee hype and aren’t convinced that he is as talented as he has been said to be?

"What exactly is that thing? A pessimism meter?" - Bruce McCurdy

by hazel on Jul 27, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe.

And, as with Wallace, I wonder if there’s a little bit of concern about a great bat attached to a big “?” as regards position. Maybe the plentiful supply of those sort of guys and the limited number of spots in which they can play depresses their value somewhat.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

well put.

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
STOP TRYING TO TRADE SHELBY MILLER!!

by BVHeck on Jul 26, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

a mess we got

i know tlr has a different set of metrics to judge player value, but a few random thoughts from the other side of the fence:

i would hate to give up on boog. i’d much rather trade greene than boog at this point. probably not tlr’s view, but it is and has been so hard for the cards to get a ss that matters in a plus way to the dd style of pitching. boog needs to stay.

if uncle roy twist the asstro’s arm hard enough ok, but boog and jay for him and we pay him seems a bad decision to me. he’ll at best be our #3-4 starter, and he’s old, and he’s expensive, and….. .

if we ship boog, has to be for drew or comparable

i don’t want to see stav until september

i know it’s unpopular, but i send cloby down. he not only looks lost, but also lackadaisical. may need to get his attention, or he really needs to be on the dl

as things stand, green should be at 3rd and floppy at 2nd most of the time

i’m ok gong for westbrook or equivalent to take penny’s spot, but they would need to take lower milb talent and/or someone of boggs ilk. i love boggs stuff, but wonder if he’ll ever get control of it.

i think a whole lot riding on how klohse looks tonight re any pitching trades

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Jul 26, 2010 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

how klohse

classic!

I am wondering what’s up with Colby. he’s getting less playing time, Jay is doing quite well. I’d guess one of the two will be traded (if we make a trade)

chief justice

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 26, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

VEB would implode if Colby was traded

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on Jul 26, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes it would

I’m liking Jay more and more.

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Jul 26, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

i hope you're not serious

if we were to trade colby, greinke would have to be involved. but we aren’t trading a young cost-controlled star center fielder.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 26, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could we just see if the Rays would take Aaron Miles?

We wouldn’t even need anything back. It could be like some kind of gawd-awful baseball white elephant gift.

by dronemc on Jul 26, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

memphis, as an independent team in AAA

would not sign or trade for grit

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Jul 26, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

What if we paid them?

Like a babysitting style arrangement?

by dronemc on Jul 26, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

no

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Jul 26, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok, in that case you win

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 26, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who would you trade Colby for?

I’m not actually sure I’d do it for Greinke. He’s been good again this year but I think 2009 is going to be a pretty huge outlier in his career.

I think my list of players I’d ship Colby for is probably <10. Maybe even <5. Longoria, Strasburg, Hanley. Maybe Utley, but probably not. Maybe Justin Upton. Perhaps Heyward.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2010 5:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, there's not many

i’d probably have to consider zimmerman if confronted with the offer. i wouldn’t do it straight-up for greinke, but with soria too…i think you’ve hit on most of them. and i don’t think this is a case of overvaluing colby because of a man-crush, either. i’d consider cutch, too, but it would have to be a clear win for us in that pitt sends a top prospect along.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 27, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I think I like Colby better than McCutcheon

Colby’s power’s off the charts, whilst I think McCutcheon is more or less at his ceiling already. I think Fangraphs ranked Colby in the top 15 most valuable assets, but tbh due to our constraints (needing money to pay pujols, we don’t have space to add a 1B like Votto or one or two players in other positions) there’s a lot of guys ahead of him I wouldn’t swap him for.

I almost said Zimmerman myself, but I think he’s owed something like $35m for the next 3 years or so, and that’s money that could be going to Pujols or buying a pitcher (although I realise we might be paying Colby ~10-15m in that period), and that would swing it in Colby’s favour for me.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh, definitely

i didn’t realize zimmerman was making that much.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 27, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Zimmermann was signed to a 5yr/45m deal 2 years ago.

He’s still a bargain for what he produces in my view.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 27, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree with that, too

one of my favorite players, but it does take him off my list as an acceptable return for klobby.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 27, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely

but is that as valuable as the next 4.5 years of Rasmus for probably <$20m? Hard to say. I think Zimmerman’s a better player right now, and probably going forward I’d rather have him, but that’s a reasonable difference in salary, and I dunno if he’s >$25m more valuable over that period. It’s close, though, and I can definitely see the argument.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 28, 2010 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

For our team, it depends on Freese.

It’s much harder to acquire an above average 3b, than an above average OFer (We also have several replacement OFers like Craig and jay).

If Freese develops power and/or sustains a .340 wOBA or above, then I would probably take Rasmus, but if we have to rely on Lopez and Schumaker, I would rather acquire Zimmerman, put Lopez at 2nd, and put Jay in CF or put Ludwick in CF and Craig in RF.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 28, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

karma is getting us back

for (actually, now that I think about it) both Scott Rolen trades.

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
STOP TRYING TO TRADE SHELBY MILLER!!

by BVHeck on Jul 31, 2010 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

WHAT????

I can’t even… if azru was here he would ban you.

I am the Batman .
@CodeeG

by CodyG on Jul 26, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was gonna say

I want what your drinking

Oswalt ( and his contract paid for) + $100M , otherwise I am done with the Cards for 3years ( or until i regain my sanity)

I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch

by mattyfrommo on Jul 26, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

you're*

and yes, I know Colby isn’t worth 116+M, but if we trade Colby, I want that cash for Albert’s contract

I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch

by mattyfrommo on Jul 26, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'd be ok with every move

except for the obvious no-no: jay down, stav up.

yes, we know how stav got on the roster and has stayed since. his bat is terrible, and his defense isn’t much better than a little leaguer’s. jay has earned his way on to the roster. if tony sends jay down when stav comes back, i’m going to be on the ‘fire larussa’ train, because there is no way that stav deserves a way back.

by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 26, 2010 6:19 PM EDT reply actions  

MO

zoomzoom, MO!!

I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch

by mattyfrommo on Jul 26, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll ride that train with you!

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on Jul 26, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

In regards to choosing Stav over Jay

I was simply going with the thought process that Mo/TLR have said that Stav has nothing left to prove in Memphis and that he is a Major Leaguer, Professional Hitter, etc. Jon Jay, they could reason, has shown “great potential” and “could benefit from more regular at-bats”. Now, if I’m right about the first part and wrong about the second part, ridding ourselves of Randy Winn may be the route we take. Jon Jay would stay on the roster and is the other player who can play center (not you, Ludwick). Stav is our right-handed bat off the bench.

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
STOP TRYING TO TRADE SHELBY MILLER!!

by BVHeck on Jul 26, 2010 8:11 PM EDT reply actions  

it'd be stupid to release winn, imo

i think he has earned his roster spot – stav has not. winn is a little old, but he’s a decent ballplayer.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 26, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

i get the feeling it's either winn or stav

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 26, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

stav has an option

no real decision as far as i can tell
he can come back in september

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Jul 26, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jay's getting regular at-bats

he’s more or less a starter at present, be it in RF or CF. I still think he’ll be the primary backup and get quite a lot of playing time when Ludwick’s back.

There is no way Jay gets sent down, IMO. I even think TLR likes him.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2010 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'll be sick to my stomach if we trade for stephen drew/dan uggla type

and for some odd fucking reason, they DFA Brendan Ryan instead of Aaron Miles…. i seriously doubt they are that stupid, give Mo more credit than that… also i don’t think they think he’s versatile… he’s played mostly 2B, 3B once…..

also Greene better not be brought down before Miles is DFAd (this will happen until miles average sucks…. now im rooting against aaron miles)

Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog

by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 27, 2010 12:50 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm not confident on the Greene/Miles scenario

I think the Cards will try to avoid DFAing at all costs, so sending down a rookie will trade precedence over firing anyone.
Straight pessimism generated my belief that Miles will win out over Ryan. Ryan has been terrible with the bat 2 out of the last 3 years – Miles is a “proven winner” who only left because he got a more lucrative deal elsewhere.
I do think Boog could play third, but he loses all of his value with the position change. The only tool that will really help him there is his arm, which is strong, and about as accurate as Freese’s has been, but his range won’t get used. Plus, offensive suckitude is not tolerated at third like it is at short. Miles, in a small sample size, has gotten better results this year than Boog, even though Boog can be better. He just isn’t getting results and we’re over halfway through the season. I don’t think Mo/TLR are going to wait it out much longer with him.

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
STOP TRYING TO TRADE SHELBY MILLER!!

by BVHeck on Jul 27, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I think Greene is the starting SS if the playoffs started today. Likewise, I think Jay is streets ahead of Stavinoha, and they’d probably even go with Craig in preference to Stav, too.

The only spanner in the works is Miles, because it’s hard to send him to memphis after he’s hit an empty, lucky, .300+ average. I don’t think there’s any way they send Greene down, or release Ryan or Schu, but in some ways it’d be good if Miles’ average dipped below .300 as it would make the decision easier. I suspect they’re trying to ease the logjam a bit by trading Boog, which I would personally be sad about – I was highly skeptical of his hitting coming into this year, but he’s not THIS bad.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2010 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Looks to me like Ryan is the SS

but if they did in fact offer Ryan to the Stros then that would indicate that Greene is the guy. Hopefully they do not think that Lopez can play SS. I’m not sure who is the better SS between Ryan and Greene but I am confident that they are the best two.

by Warcard on Jul 27, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

why does tea not play more at 2nd?

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Jul 29, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to give the nod to Ryan at SS

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on Jul 29, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

BoSox looking for a catcher

I know, I know Victor Martinez is returning. . . but R. Ramirez offered to Mets for Rod Barajas

If we offer B. Anderson + SS/OF, does that get us Clay Buchholz? :)

"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning

by gocards62 on Jul 27, 2010 9:55 AM EDT reply actions  

ha

if that outfielder is colby.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 27, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

no.

They over-rate Buchholz anyway. It’d take Miller, Anderson plus extras (which we might not even have!) to get him.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 27, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

i haven't read the whole post yet

but there is about a 5% chance skip is going anywhere unless it’s in a trade and there is about a 0% chance felipe is going anywhere

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
twatter

by prophetjohn on Jul 28, 2010 1:38 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

N1046613005_8392_small
Our 2010-2011 strays
649494__1__small
Hall of WAR: Part 2

Recent FanPosts

Hahaha_small
These were a few of my favorite things (fink reminisces about the 2011 regular season)
Dsc01844_small
Cardinals take the Governor's Joplin Challenge, will help build 35 homes for torando victims
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals of All-Time - Relief Pitching Edition
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals of All-Time - Starting Pitching Edition
Small
Two Trades That Set the Cards Back in the 70s
Nyc_small
Cardinals Offense vs. Reds Offense - 2012
Nyc_small
Cardinals Rotation vs. Reds Rotation - 2012
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
Best Cardinals by Position - Center Fielders

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Jack_benny__1__small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bendermad_small azruavatar

Trigun_001_small the red baron

Images_small tom s.

Authors

1989_bgh_cropped_small bgh

Valverde_medium_small vivaelpujols