Roy Oswalt
I Just want to start off by saying that this is my first post on VEB. I also read this site everyday, 2-3 times a day and love reading the post people put up and at times respond.
Now to the story. I was cruising some web sites about trade rumors and came across hardballtalk.com, which is a sister site to profootballtalk.com. I'm sure most of you have heard about the site, very credible. One of the headlines is that the Redbirds are the front runner for ROY OSWALT! There are pros and cons and details of who we would give up are not in the article, but it has to feel great knowing that Mo is in heavy talks with the Astros for such a high profile(franchise) player and in the division no less. 2 years in a row, if this is pulled off, Mo would make a big trade to help us get to the WS. Now Oswalt being a great pitcher and D Duncan being the pitching coach God he is, would this not make us the front runner in the national league? the other good news, and i know this will be debated, is that Roy is willing to work out his contract apparently to decrease his salary so he can pitch for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope he would be willing to take a decent cut cause we need the money for Fatty!
Here is the article http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/top-posts/the-cardinals-are-the-front-runners-for-roy-oswalt.php
Take a look and tell me what you think. Hope i didn't disappoint with my first post!
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Fatty!
I love the nickname for Albert.
If the contract negotiations are correct, I don’t hate this deal as much. Just say no to the option, Mo
and no trading of RFL or Shelby Miller, thankyouverymuch.
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
doesn't shelby have to be part of this deal though?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
I don't see why.
Oswalt is no longer an ace- he would be our third best pitcher in his best case scenario and if Garcia continues to be great and Penny comes back strong he could be as low as 5th! starter on our staff. His salary isn’t a bargain, meaning it will put pressure on the team to either raise payroll or let other talented players go.
Roy Oswalt is a good pitcher, but if Shelby Miller departs in a trade for him, there’s no way that trade is worth the value it brings us.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I disagree
I think Miller is overrated because of TINSTAAPP, I just don’t trust those damn pitching prospects, especially ones out of high school. And Oswalt is pretty freaking good even if he’s not an ace. He projects for around a 3.50 ERA going forward.
I would be open to a trade of Miller + cash.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 23, 2010 4:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Oswalt's age scares me
plus the fact that he’s clearly on the downslope of his career. For fireballing pitchers, I suspect those “downslopes” are about as difficult to predict as the career of a high school pitching prospect. In short, I think there’s a lot of risk and limited upside to Oswalt’s current deal. We could acquire a bandaid-type for the rest of this year and, if we still somehow have $15m/yr to spend on a pitcher, likely get an equivalent or better pitcher in free agency next year.
If we trade Miller (and I would be happy to, for the right piece) I think the return needs to be someone who’ll either come in and be a legitimate star player and get us type-A comp now (i.e. the Holliday deal last year), or someone who’s got a lower ceiling than Miller but who is competent and (ideally) under team control and reasonably cheap for the next year or two. If the Twins weren’t in their pennant race (or if they’re ready to throw in the towel, which I seriously doubt) I could see sending Miller for someone like Kevin Slowey – slightly above-average MLB ready pitcher who’s got 3 years of relatively cheap team control left through arby, and a guy who seems tailor made for Dave Duncan (i.e. good K rate, excellent control, but totally unable to generate groundballs). If he could raise his GB rate by 10% or so by learning a good sinker and a better approach, I’d think he could be a 3-4 win pitcher going forward. I’m sure there are other, similar guys who might be available somewhere. I’d rather trade for someone of that ilk than a guy like Oswalt.
Also, IF we had the money to afford Roy, I’d much rather go after Haren, even if it costs Shelby +. He’s better, younger and cheaper, and the fact he’s under team control for 3 years with an option (IIRC) means he fills a hole in our rotation for the foreseeable future.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 23, 2010 4:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm actually trying to think of a durable fireballing ace-level starter that
suddenly fell off a cliff due to something that wasn’t a career-ending injury.
It seems the pattern there is more a slow, gradual decline—Randy Johnson, Pedro MartÃnez (I’ll discount Roger Clemens due to steroids for the purpose of this conversation), John Smoltz, and Nolan Ryan, for example, all just slowly got worse.
I think these guys are safer to project going forward than the control-types.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Perhaps you're right
that aside, pitchers hitting their mid-30s of ANY variety (especially ones who’ve been declining for 4 years) are certainly pretty good bets to decline severely, compared to position players, or younger pitchers.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 26, 2010 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions
scared shitless in wherever
ok, Oswalt, good I’m all for it.
On the other hand… shudder. I’m sure they won’t jeopardize ’Bert re-signing with such a deal, but… shudder.
I’m just really scared about the Faberge eggs.
REMEMBER THE HAREN!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MO- REMEMBER THE HAREN!!!!
They say sing while you slave but I just get bored
There's a big difference between a prospect on your MLB roster
who pitched beautifully in a world series, and a prospect in the low minors.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
No Miller
Salas/Sanchez, Craig/Jay, and D Jones for Oswalt. Seems fair to me.
....my quick smells like french toast...
Twitter: @mstreeter06
where do i sign up for this?
my god that is a fleece job…i would be much happier than i was last season when we got holliday
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
oswalt is old and expensive
i wouldnt want him if they gave him to us for nothing.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 22, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe
but he’s better than suppan for the rest of the season and whoever we call up for next….and a RH RP, 4th outfielder, and damaged goods is not much at all for that kind of upgrade
he costs way to much…but it may just be worth it
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
Actually if he costs too much, then he isn't worth it. That's the definition of costing too much.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
by hazel on Jul 22, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I really think a lot of this
Might be a means to move the price down on a Westbrook type. Maybe negotiations hit a stall somewhere else so they start sniffing around on something like this, let it leak out, and see if that improves their market.
i doubt we are trying to drive the price down on westbrook
which is negligible to begin with. i would think our goal, in that case, is haren, as it has been noted by several sources that our front office covets haren.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
If they want anything
They’ll have to take on some salary. There is always negotiation and gamesmanship. I don’t assume it’s an easy deal.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 23, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
ludwick
Trade ludwick, sanchez/salas, and maybe some other freebie. The only way we pick him up is if we dump a little salary. Plus we have plenty of people who can fill ludwicks spot.
by conan_the_barbarian on Jul 22, 2010 4:44 PM EDT reply actions
RYAN FUCKING LUDWICK DOES NOT APPROVE OF ALL THIS TRADE RYAN LUDWICK TALK!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jul 22, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Heh
I had this same thought earlier. If we take Oswalt we can’t afford Lud’s arb raise. We could trade him and replace him with Jay/Craig.
If Houston are blowing up their team
why would they want a 30-year-old outfielder with one reasonably expensive arby year of team control left? That’s just not realistic.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 23, 2010 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, isn't their outfield pretty full?
They have Pence and Lee, and I don’t know if the’re still high on Bourn.
Ludwick could probably play over Pence, and he is all right in CF, but he never looked like a natural CF to me.
But I don’t know if an outfielder would be what I’m trading for if I were them.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
there is zero chance Houston takes Ludwick
if it could be less than zero, it’d be that.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 23, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
well, we can't trade luddy to houston, because they don't want him
but in a separate deal we could certainly trade him, or in the offseason.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
well maybe they don't want him!
but…. the only way we can afford him is to dump salary and ludwick is our best way to do that.
by conan_the_barbarian on Jul 23, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
well, we could easily trade him elsewhere
but he’s not going to houston.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I don't think this is going to happen
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2010 5:37 PM EDT reply actions
If we got a steal I would be okay with it, but I don't want to destroy our farm system even more and we've already tied up enough money in the rotation.
It’s not impossible since the ‘stros probably really want to rebuild and they don’t have much choice over where to trade him. This gives us some decent leverage as one of the few locations he would go to.
according to mlbtraderumors
Stark also notes that St. Louis has offered “two young players off their major-league roster” for the Astros right-hander
Stav and Boog?
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
greene and salas?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Relievers, I'm guessing
but tbh I call bullshit. There’s no way we can afford Oswalt. It’s not just a “slight” bump in payroll, as we’ll need to keep Albert. If we sign Oswalt, payroll jumps by like $20m for next season, and the years beyond. I find it hard to believe that’ll happen.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 23, 2010 4:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Per mlbtraderumors
Supposedly we have offered Houston two “young” players off of our MAJOR league roster.
Does this scare the hell out of anyone else here?
Hope we’re not dumb enough to offer Garcia. It would be Dan Haren all over again.
Hopefully no worse than Jay/Craig and Salas.
the list should include
Boggs
Motte
Salas
Craig
Jay
If Garcia goes someone needs a history lesson.
this thread is all Aaron Mile's fault.
i think more greene than jay or craig
and better not be craig – anyway, the astros have a full outfield. but if they wanted jay i’d be ok with that instead of greene. salas could be the other. of course garcia is not in the discussion – miller would be only if the stros pick up oswalt’s contract and the front office prefers that to paying oswalt themselves.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
jay craig will be our right fielder next year
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
i sort of doubt it
craig is the better hitter but would be the short end of the platoon and the org doesn’t like him in right. and i think jay is a 4th of’er whose best value is playing center for another team.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i don't know
they are certainly in the mix, as would be mather, luddy, and i guess some others, either free agent or trade.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Winn could be back
he’s been really good for us. I’d guess they’d give him another year, with Jay/Craig to fill in some other starts, and basically take it from there.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 26, 2010 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, forgot about winn
whose presence would probably make tony more comfortable with keeping jay and craig around to basically man right.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He is 36
which is slightly concerning, and there have been signs of him breaking down somewhat in the last couple of years, but I think he’s been unlucky with the bat somewhat (2009 he ran an absurdly low HR/FB rate and a slightly low BABIP, this year his BABIP has been extremely unlucky and I’m not convinced his fielding has fallen off as badly as UZR seems to suggest, especially if he’s exclusively a right fielder, where his arm and range seem to play best). He’s also a very good baserunner.
My main caveat would be that he’s on a short leash if he really starts to show more severe signs of ageing, that he needs to play well for the rest of 2010, and that TLR only plays him against RHP because he really can’t hit at all as a right-hander.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 26, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I would guess it'll be Boggs and maybe Salas or Hawksworth
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jul 23, 2010 4:58 AM EDT up reply actions
we cant go after oswalt.
It would be to jeopardizing to our long term plan. But a westbrook/millwood/hernandez!/guthrie would be great and we could still add a SS/2B like christian guzman?
by rumors on Jul 23, 2010 12:15 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
how would it jeopardize our long-term plan
to give up greene and salas or so for oswalt? again, we are not giving up miller unless the stros pay for the salary. it’s because of his salary that oswalt is cheap, prospect-wise.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
financially it would handcuff us.
And it would take more than greene and salas.
by rumors on Jul 23, 2010 10:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
financially it would handcuff us.
And it would take more than greene and salas.
by rumors on Jul 23, 2010 10:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
why would we want that poo-poo platter of non-difference makers?
If Oswalt doesn’t mandate that we pcik up his option, why does he blow up our long-term plan? He basically is just a replacement for Penny, with a couple of extra millions throw in.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 23, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i wish there was like button
because i totally agree. We dont need Oswalt but it sure would be nice. By the way i always thought that the goal of each year is to win the big one. I dont think anyone can argue with that and as long as they dont take a key player Oswalt will help us get there.
by conan_the_barbarian on Jul 23, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
there is a like button
click actions and then rec.
this thread is all Aaron Mile's fault.
by Evilfrog on Jul 23, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Oswalt is not as good as he used to be, and they want too much for him
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 23, 2010 12:11 PM EDT reply actions
what they ask for and what they will actually get are different things
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
they seemed very bullish on getting a lot for him
and they are not a smart office. don’t underestimate that combination to prevent something happening, especially since Mo is not going to get fleeced. at least, I hope not
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 23, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm fine with mo not making the deal if it's no good, of course
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by the way
has anyone read what there saying on the crawfish boxes. they are talking major crap about VEB.
by conan_the_barbarian on Jul 23, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions
yknow
haters are gonna hate
chief justice
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 23, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed.
"/>
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
which one of you is Wally
and just called into ESPN 101.1 and explained to the host how we don’t need Oswalt in the Playoffs because Jaime is better.
lol
that was great.
this thread is all Aaron Mile's fault.
nice
his name was Homer not wally..ha
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers

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