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Cardinals vs. Phillies preview

I don't think I could have imagined a better way to start the second half of the season than with a 4 game sweep of the Dodgers.  In the first two games the Cardinals were able to score with ease against two of the better young pitchers in the game, Kershaw and Billingsley, and while on the third game they were effectively shut down by Hiroki Kuroda, Adam Wainwright was better yet.  After Saturday's victory there was suspicion that Tony La Russa would, er, take it easy in yesterday's game with the series outcome already decided and Jeff Suppan on the mound - and yesterday's starting lineup confirmed that suspicion - however, the Cardinals were able to "comeback from oblivion" to win the game.  Better yet, VEB mancrush Allen Craig was the hero driving in three runs in the last two innings.

So, with the Reds losing the final game of their first post-allstar break series, the Cardinals find themselves in first place despite what can only be classified as a disappointing first half.  Their next challengers are the Phillies - the reigning NL champions two years running.  Despite there recent success however, the Phillies have struggled this year and don't appear to be the powerhouse they were thought to be in the beginning of the season.  And with Roy Halladay being lit up by the Cubs last night of all teams, the Cardinals get to face the back end of the Phillies rotation in this series.

Star-divide

Lineups

Cardinals Phillies
Lopez (3B) Victorino (CF)
Rasmus (CF) Polcanco (3B)
Pujols (1B) Rollins (SS)
Holliday (LF) Howard (1B)
Jay (RF) Werth (RF)
Yadier (CA) Ibanez (LF)
Skip (2B) Ruiz (CA)
Pitcher Valdez (2B)
Greene (SS) Pitcher

As you can see, the Phillies are down their primary second baseman and one of the best players in the game in Chase Utley.  That is partially offset by the Cardinals being down Ryan Ludwick and David Freese.  According to ZIPS wOBA projections on FanGraphs, the Cardinals starting lineup projects for a .345 wOBA while the Phillies projects for a .346.  What the Phillies lack in star power (nobody on the Phillies projects to hit as well as Holiday or Pujols) they make up for it with excellent balance, as only Wilson Valdez projects to be below average.

Defensively, the two teams once again seem to be a wash, both ranking within 1 run of eachother in team UZR.  Although both are rated around average, it definitely seems as if they are better than that.  Each features mutltiple gold glove winners, as well as young and under the radar defensive studs.  The Phillies' outfield may be one of the few that can stack up with ours defensively, as Victorino and Werth more than make up for Ibanez.  So a quick glance at the two teams starting position players yields a wash - meaning the deciding factors will be the starting pitching and the bullpen.  I'll get into the starting pitching matchups in a second, but lets take a look at the pen first.  

According to FanGraphs, the Cardinals pen has been about as good as the Phillies pen, outperforming them in ERA but falling slightly behind in FIP and xFIP.  However, the Cardinals look like a much stabler unit going forward.  Each of Boggs, McClellan, Motte and Franklin seem to be hitting their stride, while the two LOOGY's continue to do a competent job.  The Phillies, on the other hand, have seen their two preseason aces (Brad Lidge and Ryan Madson) do their best, well, Brad Lidge ca. 2009 impression.  Currently JC Romero and Nelson Figeroa are the only pithcers performing well in the pen.  Given the volatility of the bullpen in general, this is only a slight edge for the Cardinals, but we all know how devastating a bullpen can be and given the Cardinals history against Brad Lidge I'm hoping for  a comeback down the line.  

Game 1: Kendrick vs. Hawksworth

 

Kendrick (RHP) possesses a low 90's fastball with just a little bit of sink to it, and two slightly slower offspeed pitches (a cutter/slider and a changeup).  He's youngish at 26 years old and has had a lot of experience in the major leagues, but otherwise has no redeeming qualities that would hint at much potential.  His career K/9 is a measly 4.01 and he doesn't make up for it with excellent control (2.61 BB/9) or extreme ground ball tendencies (45.7 GB%).  His career ERA is 4.61 with peripherals that match it.  So of course, the Cardinals have scored just 6 runs in 27 innings against Kendrick over the past couple of years.  Still, I can't think of any reason why the Cardinals should continue to flounder against that underwhelming sonuvabitch, so I'll put my trust in his ZIPS projection (5.03 ERA) as a proxy for what we should expect from him going forward.  Good news!  

Unfortunately for the Cardinals, Blake Hawksworth probably isn't much better.  Since his inception (!) into the rotation he's pitched 21.1 innings with 15 strikeouts, 9 walks and 3 home runs allowed.  Despite retaining a decent amount of the velocity he gained upon moving to the pen, he has not been any more effective than we've come to expect from him.  ZIPS projects a 4.78 ERA out of Hawk, primarily out of the pen, which translates to something over 5 ing the rotation.  The battle of the two teams 5th starters promises to be an excruciating affair.   

With both starters likely departing early and the Cardinals pen looking better, I'd give the Cardinals a slight edge in this first game.  

Game 2: Moyer vs. Carpenter  

 

Moyer at 48 years old continues to offer a depressing reminder of the atrophy that comes with old age to those in the Phillies clubhouse, all while continuing to be a solid starter at the major league level.  Still, over the past 2 years his ERA is in the high 4's with matching peripherals.  He appears to be near the end of his career with his contract expiring after this season.  Then again I probably would have said that 10 years ago.  

At any rate, Carpenter has the clear edge in this matchup.  His fastball velocity is down this year and he doens't have the pinpoint control of his cutter and curve; however, in the first half he posted strikeout, walk and groundball rates better than league average, all in all putting up a 3.78 xFIP.  His first start after the break was a beauty - tossing 8 innings of 1 run ball, and despite a couple of hickups along the way, he remains one of the best starters in the National League.          

Game 3: Blanton vs. Garcia

 

Blanton is about as generic a pitcher as they come.  He throws in the high 80's with his fastball, while also offering a mild assortment of offspeed.  He strikes out more batters than you'd expect, but still below the league average rate, and has shown an ability to throw strikes, but also give up home runs.  His ERA is 6.21 this year, but he's pitched about as well as he always had and projects for a low 4's ERA going forward.  Honestly, I don't want to talk any more about Blanton.  

Jaime goes for the Cardinals after being inexplicable removed early from his last start.  He struck out 4 and walked 1, but the BABIP luck that had helped in all season long finally turned as he allowed 8 hits in 3.2 innings.  I didn't really notice anything wrong with Jaime that would portend the quick hook, so I guess that was just Tony being Tony.  Anyway, you all know the story with Jaime - sexy rookie takes the league by storm with an assortment of moving stuff and lotsa ground balls.  His ERA at 2.27 is still far to low to be sustainable; however, his BABIP is now right at .300 and his strand rate is only slightly elevated.  The biggest thing is that he just has not allowed any hard hit balls this year.  His slugging percentage against .306 and he has allowed a total of 17 extra base hits this year, or less than 1 per start.  I don't know what the think about his season thus far - he's not allowing fewer hits on balls in play, just ones of less quality.  I'm guessing he'll start to get hit hard sometime - and the Phillies might just do some of that.  Still, this game once again looks like a clear advantage for the Cardinals.     

Game 4: Hamels vs. Wainwright

 

Now *this* is the game I'm most looking forward to in the series.  Despite Hamels' 7-7 record, he's pitching very well this year with a 3.63 ERA and 3.80 xFIP.  He seems to have gained about 2 MPH on his fastball this year, and as you'd expect his strikeouts have risen.  Unfortunately, so have his walks and home runs allowed.  But as one of the few lefties in the game with truly excellent stuff, the Cardinals will likely have to scratch and claw for runs.  

Luckily, the Cardinals will send out Adam Wainwright, who I believe has officially taken over the title as the Cardinals ace.  After his last shutout start against the Dodgers, Wainwright ranks 3rd in the majors in innings pitched, 2nd in ERA, and 5th in xFIP.  He truly has ascended into the elite class of pitchers. Again, the edge clearly goes to the Cardinals here.  

 

Based on my subjective evaluations here, the Cardinals appear to be the favorites in each game of the series.  I won't ask for another sweep, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out.  Again, on paper the Cardinals look like an excellent team.  Here's hoping that they are able to live up to that promise in the second half.      

Comment 523 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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I see a split.

The fact that Ryan Howard LOVES to hit in St. Louis (as in homeruns) gives me pause to think that this will be a easy series for our Cards coming off a sweep of the Dodgers. The Phillies has given this team fits in recent years at Busch…I don’t expect that to change. I’m still trying to erase that game where they scored like 22 runs in an bitch slap like romp a couple of years ago.

I believe Howard will be up to his old tricks and will hammer some balls over the wall in his hometown…as long as our pitchers can keep them solo shots I like our chances for at least two solid wins. But just the fact that the Cubs (who have finally started to score runs at Wrigley) beat them 3 of 4 doesn’t really give me positive vibes that the Phillies are a dead team walking (remember they swept the Reds before the break). This Phillies team has been in a slump with the bats but I don’t count on that to last another 4 games.
I like our chances in games 2 and 4. At least we don’t have to face Halladay.

Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon

by KYCards on Jul 19, 2010 6:21 AM EDT reply actions  

Aaron Miles,

threw the only scoreless inning in that spanking by the Phillies, 2-years before Phillipe Lopez made it ‘cool’ for back-up MIFs to pitch shutouts. I’m convinced this is why TLR keeps him around.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN200806130.shtml

by Frozen_Beltran on Jul 19, 2010 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

What a line-up we fielded that day

Schu – Kennedy – Luddy – Ank – Santa – Dunc – Yadi – Colonel – Iz2

Wow.

Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S. '08, T.E.S.S. '09, T.E.S.S. '10

by dan on Jul 19, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Never?

Because we could easily roll out this lineup (and I totally wouldn’t put it past TLR to do so):

Schu (2B)
Miles (3B)
Craig (1B)
Stavinoha (LF)
Jay (CF)
Winn (RF)
LaRue ©
Suppan (P)
Boog (SS)

“It’s Replacement Player Sunday Folks!!! Half Price Beer! Featuring a Nick Stavinoha Hot Dog Eating Contest during the 7th inning stretch and Aaron Miles pitching the 8th and 9th innings!!”

Seriously, that’s a Bill Veeck promotion waiting to happen….

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

...but at least we have Craig! And Jay!

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 19, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes,

beggars can’t be choosers, and what not…

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on Jul 19, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

That lineup would win 13-2 just to spite VEB

TLR will say “See, it worked! I’m a genius!” and subject us to that lineup 75% of the rest of the games

"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles

by jd is legend on Jul 19, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't that what happened in 2008?

Except for the whole “winning 13-2” part

Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S. '08, T.E.S.S. '09, T.E.S.S. '10

by dan on Jul 19, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Once again, I am amazed that LaRue has managed to copyright himself.

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

The 'stache and hair are legally his trademarks

He sold the rights because of the bad economy. That’s the real reason he shaved.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can't thow out Stav this series

he is on the DL, but otherwise…and i had to stop myself from typing udder…stupid cow :)

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Jul 19, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

:=8P

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

with current 25 man

we could see…

Skip (RF)
Miles (3B)
Craig (1B)
Jay (CF)
Winn (RF)
Greene (2B)
LaRue ©
Suppan (P)
Boog (SS)

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Jul 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

extreme outfield shift?

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I See a Split too...

….although I would obviously prefer an-udder sweep. Moyer is exactly the sort of lefty fluff-tosser that we can’t seem to hit for beans, and Hamels is the same, except younger and with mooch better stuff. Kendrick is an awful pitcher, and our inability to hit him is as inexplicable as it is worrying. Blanton has his mooments, and is exactly the kind of pitcher who needs to benefit from a high-power offense like the Phils USED to be, not so sure about now.

But, Waino seems to be hitting his stride; Carp seems to have rightened himself; Jamie, well, at least he isn’t exhausted from his last outing; I think Hawkman will get better – if we’re lucky he may nail down that 5th spot and keep Lohse in the ’pen and Soup out the door.

I will still fret over run production until we get Cowlick and Tastee back int he line up, but it is nice to see Craig Allen Alan Alen Greg Craig Allen….you know who…back up – I get the impression that he is flat out going for it this time, a swing at anything attitude born of the desperation knowing that this might be your last chance to make a favorable impression and not get shipped off to some udder team for an underwhelming reliever with cowtrol issues. I’d start him over Wynn any day of the week.

Best of all, we gots us a big ol’ pan dripping with some of that fungible, unquantifiable goodness known as Moomentum, and I hope we ride that scary pony right through this series!

;=8)

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 19, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

We need help 'cos

the Reds have the hapless Nats at home for four games.

"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning

by gocards62 on Jul 19, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Nats aren't that bad.

Especially if they have Strasburg starting one of those four.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 19, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

There is a possibility that a trade may take place before we play them.

Dunn could be moved. If he isn’t, though, the Nats are no pushovers.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

You are talking about the same Nats

who were shut out Sat & Sun vs. the Marlins

who are currently 40-52.

"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning

by gocards62 on Jul 19, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're forgetting

that they shut out the Marlins on Friday behind Strasburg and that getting shut out by Josh Johnson (Saturday) is nothing to be ashamed of — that guy rarely gives up a run as it is. They left 9 yesterday, I’ve seen the Cardinals do that a time or twelve this season as well.

They have a solid ballclub and can pretty much win any game that Strasburg pitches, they have some offensive firepower — it’s just that they’re really streaky on offense. They could easily take two from Cincy with SS pitching one of those games and stealing another one by outscoring the Reds.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dunn, Zimmerman, and Willingham are all really good hitters

Morse and Bernardina have done well, and Guzman is kinda what we hoped Boog would hit like. They have some offense, definitely.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

The kid at SS has a lot of talent too.

Ian Desmond.

He hasn’t shown the great bat at the big league level yet, but he had good numbers in short stints in the minors and I think he’s been pushed at bit past his readiness level.

I’ve seen him play a few times this year and he just looks like a big league hitter. Good pitch recognition and he really squares the ball up well. If they can keep Ryan Zimmerman and Willingham in place, get Jordan Zimmerman healthy, and get Drew Storen to the majors, I’d say they’re a couple of legit FA signings away from being competitive in that division.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I have heard Ian Desmond mentioned a lot

But I didn’t know much about him, and it looked like he hasn’t really come around yet. But he will surely get better with time.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

If not, they have another SS in the pipeline that every scout loves: Danny Espinosa

Everyone showed up to watch Strasburg at the AFL last year, and everyone walked away impressed with Espinosa I guess.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I'm really impressed by Desmond too

I think he’s going to be a solid above-average SS sooner rather than later.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 19, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

His defense is questionable though

He leads the majors in errors by a wide margin. 22 errors is a lot of errors.

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

unverified by watching him

but I’ve heard he has incredible range, especially for his size

by mikey_mac on Jul 19, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't have a good read on his range

But seriously, 22 errors. The next person has 15!

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW

If Strasburg stays healthy, I can see him looking very much like Pedro circa 1997 – 2001 and possibly even better than that.

Just watching the way solid professional hitters flail at the plate when he’s throwing is incredible.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

before anybody suggests it

that is NOT an overestimation. I’ve been to 3 of the kid’s outings, and he looks like the hype. how often can you say that?

the Nats have done well for themselves drafting the past couple of years, in no small part thanks to their record and getting rid of bowden. they should be division contenders in a year or two as the Phils begin to age.

Joe Morgan: "I've always said that the purpose of a minor league system is to help the big league club."

by Oedipa Maas on Jul 19, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I still think Atlanta is going to be the horse in the division

and Florida, providing they start spending some fucking money (hear the Jeff Loria — DO YOU HEAR ME) could absolutely be a contender for a good portion of the next decade if they sign some decent FA to go with guys like Nolasco, Stanton, Hanley, etc.

Hard to say anything about the Mets at this point — Davis is the last prospect they have that looks to have great impact, and their pitching staff is a mess of underperformers and overpaid guys.

On Strasburg: If I could place a bet at 50-1 that he would have an ERA below 1.50 within the next 4 seasons, I’m probably taking that bet.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not a huge Lebron hater or lover

but that’s how I felt about Lebron when he hit the league. I didn’t think there was anyway he could live up to all the hype

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on Jul 19, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love Strasburg as much as anyone

But Pedro led the AL in K/9 by 4.8 in ‘99. I can’t even comprehend how that was possible.

Oh and he then led HR/9 by .32. (The 2nd best had almost double the HR rate!)

And then he finished 2nd in BB/9 by only .04 (which almost certainly means that he led the league in BB%)

That’s a taaaaaaallllllll task. If there’s anyone who could do it, it’s gonna be Strasburg, but Pedro’s 99-00 is just [list of words describing amazement]

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 19, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pujolsian?
[list of words describing amazement]

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on Jul 19, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

ridiculosity?

Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 19, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno if he's going to do those things in respect to league average

I was just positing that his numbers and metrics will look similar to the ones that Pedro put up in those seasons. Especially K/9, WHIP, and ERA/FIP.

I think we’re headed into an offensive recession because I believe that high quality pitching is beginning to catch up to the offense again. Seems to happen about once ever 18 years or so in the history of the game, regardless of steroids or other performance enhancers. If this happens, it’s going to make it very difficult for him to approach those numbers in relation to the rest of the league, because the rest of the league will be that much better.

I still think it’s possible though, and he has the stuff and mentality to make it happen. Clearly.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

i can't see craig becoming desperate and swinging at anything

he is a very patient hitter and even lays off strikes if he knows he can’t do much with them. and he can hit a mistake, which will eventually come.

if hawk nails down the 5th spot and keeps lohse in the pen, and suppan is shipped out, as you suggest, then who is the number 4 starter? are you counting on penny to come back?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Jul 19, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was being facetious....

about Craig…
;=8)

As fer Lohse, he’d be the 4 until Penny comes back – which may not be until September, if at all, or if/when we trade for an-udder pitcher. best case scenario, clearly.

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 19, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

SSS and all but he's at a 43.5% O-Swing and his career high MiLB BB% is 8.5

Dunno if I’d really describe him as patient.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 19, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Post-baseball employment options

Moyer is exactly the sort of lefty fluff-tosser

Does this make Moyer a fluffer?

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 19, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ew.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

If only Tony could find a position to start him at...

How hard could 2nd base be to learn? Heh. He would be a sick 2nd baseman.

by Mulliganstew on Jul 19, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

this

*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 19, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Craigression continues today?

maybe give Lopex the day off at 3b?

"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning

by gocards62 on Jul 19, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Play Crag

at 3B until Freese gets back.

by jjray on Jul 19, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I sure would love to see that.

Lopez 2B
Rasmus CF
Pujols 1B
Holliday LF
Craig 3B
Jay RF
Molina C
Pitcher
Greene/Ryan SS

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Jul 19, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've wanted them to do this since Spring Training 2009,

but I am one of those who thinks his defense is not as bad as his reputation on defense suggests.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Especially against left handed

pitching, it makes a ton of sense. Craig will punish a soft tossing lefty like Jamie Moyer.

by jjray on Jul 19, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

have they ever played craig at third?

*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 19, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't believe he has

with the big club.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Jul 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correct.

2009 – Memphis = 13 games at 3B
2008 – Springfield = 108 games at 3B

Link

This leads to me to believe his days as a non-1B infielder are done.

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, that's what he hits with

He uses a glove at third

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 19, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do I hear a rimshot in the distance?

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 19, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be all that surprised to see it

I’m starting to get the impression that some of Craig’s starts are auditions for other teams. I wouldn’t be completely shocked if he was sent packing for other stuff, regardless of how much I would love him to be the next Ryan Ludwick (underestimated right fielder who starts out as a bench player than smacks north of twenty homeruns)

by white088 on Jul 19, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

But why are you getting that feeling? I can't think of any rational basis we have for assuming Craig is being auditioned for a trade.

If there is some evidence for this line of thought, um, please tell me.

אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס

by chalk on Jul 19, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wishful thinking maybe?

As much as I like Craig, it would be awesome for MO to trade him for something else that is more useful to the team right now. But then I would be sad. I don’t really think it’s likely either way.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shouldn't the time be 7:15?

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

not a 715 start tonight

6:05PM instead

"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."

by StLHugo on Jul 19, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right. ESPN game.

That’s one limber Hawkswatch.

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

David Brown may be a 'sterisk, but he plays right into our memes.
Wait, the Cardinals have a backup first baseman? Who knew?

Or is it “Craig Allen”? Allen Craig batted third, just like Albert, and drove in three runs in the final two innings — on his 26th birthday, no less.

Most of the backup Birds had good days. Filling in for Rasmus was Jon Jay (the Cardinals are just making up these names).

bls

FESPN loved all over us, somewhat disgustingly, and had a lovely graphic comparing birthday boys Allen Craig and Joe Torre. Like, really. They said “Allen Craig” about twenty times. Also, Bristol believes in its chest cavity that it’s “Jonathan Jay”. [insert snark here]

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 9:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Attack of the Firsty Firsty's

'Why are you 40 with highlights?' - Scott Rolen during interview with Kevin Millar

by Heisenberg on Jul 19, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'm just setting up MooCow for the outrage.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope they have a graphic comparing John Jay, jurist, to Jon Jay, ballplayer.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

it's a matter of time.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

wait, hasn't FSM done that?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

They may have, but I missed it, if they did.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

not a graphic

but the other day, some guys at work had BBTN on the TV while we were on duty. The Cards highlights come on and the anchor (cant remember who) referred to Jon Jay as “Chief Justice”. I hollered out “Hey, guys in the truck!” and everyone around me looked at me like I was crazy. Good stuff.

C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!

by yer dog first on Jul 19, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

Regression, bitches.

by spants on Jul 19, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

hold on

we’ll have to get a ruling on that

I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going

by sportsman on Jul 19, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's with the Jonathan Jay thing?

Is this a meme? I fail to figure out how that isn’t his real name, since it’s listed that way at b-ref and wikipedia (with the middle name Henry, making it seem even more Revolutionary).

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it stems

from Fangrpahs having both a Jonathan Jay page and a Jon Jay page.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ahhh

They need to straighten that out then. Though they probably don’t care, seeing as how it has nothing to do with the Rangers or Mariners.
That felt good to say, even though I know it was a cheap jab.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we'll end up with a split

Mostly because I don’t see Hawk going deep in Game 1, which will lead us to a loss and a burned up bullpen for the rest of the series, which will hurt us in Games 2 and 3 I would imagine.

I would guess that they’ll take Games 1 and 3 (with the bullpen losing us Game 3) while we’ll somehow find a way to score 2 runs off of Moyer and Waino will pick us up in Game 4 with 8 shutout innings, moving him to 11-0 at home this season.

He should be the front runner for the Cy Young right now. He’s clearly been the best pitcher in the NL this season as he’s limited his bad starts (something Halladay and Jimenez haven’t done) and been an absolute horse in the rest of them.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 9:31 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm torn between Waino and Johnson

Both have been terrific, but if I had to choose, I’d go Waino.

by Mulliganstew on Jul 19, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm leaning towards Johnson at the moment...

however, Waino has a better shot of the two at getting to that ever-so important 20 win mark that the Cy voters drool over . I think the Cy Young vote will eventually come down to JJ, Waino, and Jimenez. I’m not ruling out Halladay, but getting pulverized by the small bears isn’t going to help your cause. Having Lidge “closing” out games is probably going to cost him a couple more W’s in the stat column on top of that.

"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."

by The Classical on Jul 19, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Someone will hit 20 this year, that's for sure

pretty hard not to see Waino doing it unless he gets injured. Jimenez should do pretty comfortably, as well.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 19, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cy Young

In my somewhat less than humble opinion
Johnson has pitched the best so far.
Wainwright will pitch the best for the full season.
Jimenez would win the award right now and will at the end of the season if he doesn’t collapse.
Like last year
Carp pitched the best (was discounted for missing a few starts…funny how they didn’t take that into consideration for manager of the year or AL MVP or usually for Rooke of the year awards.)
Wainwright had the best results
Lincecum won the award.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jul 19, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

i really can't see ubaldo winning if the season ended right now.

he has the wins, but that’s IT.

waino and johnson (among others) both lead him in IP, ERA, Ks, K/9, BB/9 QS, K/BB, WHIP, FIP, and xFIP.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but who votes on the Cy Young?

You have to remember that. I think Jiminez would win in a landslide if they held the vote right now.

"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles

by jd is legend on Jul 19, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

you have a point.

i guess i’m just basing this on the fact that lincecum won last year, and, despite my biases, he was the right choice. i have some faith that the BBWAA can do it 2 years in a row.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wainwright

is only 1 win behind Jiminez and tied with Johnson for 4th with 130 K’s, which is 17 higher than Jiminez. Voters also love the K’s

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on Jul 19, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

yabutyabutyabut

‘Wainwright has a losing record in away games! a real ace picks his team up in those tough road games. Besides, in a year when everyone is throwing perfect games, all wainwright has done is throw his first career shutout. Wainwright is a good pitcher, but not the best.’

Be prepared for something like this, VEB.

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

NO HITTER! means the BBWAA would need a towel

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

And 4 more losses

I don’t like it any more than you. But you know some dumbass writer will say that Ubaldo “just didn’t lose” or some nonsense like that

"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles

by jd is legend on Jul 19, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

He would win right now, I don't doubt it one bit.

Look at Clemens in 2001. He wasn’t even the best pitcher on his own damn team! Mike Mussina was heads and shoulders better: Mussina tossed 3 SHO, Clemens didn’t even complete a game that season. Why did he win it? Well, he was 20-1 headed into the last two weeks of the season and everyone made up their minds that he was the best pitcher in the league that year, mostly due to the fact that the Yankees averaged just over 6 runs in his starts. Shit, I could probably win 14 games if they’re spotting me 6+ runs in half my starts.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

that was almost 10 years ago.

the thought process for cy young voting has changed since then, as evidenced by last year’s winners.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eh, I'm not so sure

Greinke was pretty much a no brainer and Lincecum barely won. Remember, Jon Heyman still has a ballot.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 19, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

but waino ended up finishing third, despite having 19 wins.

i understand that a lot of people still voted him #1 because of his win total, but a lot of people didn’t. carp had a lower ERA and more wins than timmy, and only finished second. he didn’t even get that many first place votes.

anyway, the fact that it was such a close vote last year supports the idea that ubaldo is not a sure thing.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope you're right!

As of now, he’s clearly the trailer in the Hallday, Waino, Johnson group.

I wonder if Jaime will get any votes?

by vivaelpujols on Jul 19, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have far more faith in the BBWAA than I ever will

They are just a few years removed from stealing the MVP from Albert Pujols and awarding it to Ryan Howard because he had more RBI’s. RBI’s for position players = Wins for pitchers.

Greinke only won last year because there were so few other good candidates in the AL and because he had one of the most statistically fantastic seasons in the last half decade. Plus, I think they were shamed into it a little bit because of how wretched Royals baseball has been for nearly 2 decades.

It’s also not like Greinke’s win was unprecedented — there have been pitchers with outstanding seasons for crappy teams that have won the Cy before. It doesn’t happen with the MVP very often because of that mysterious “value” component that has to do with how well your team does, especially in “games that count” which apparently only occur during August and September (see 2006 MVP race mentioned above)

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

well look, i'm not saying hands down, ubaldo doesn't win it.

i’m just saying i don’t think its a lock the way it might have been 10 years ago. some of the voters are getting smarter.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I'm saying that if he wins 25 or 26 games with a 2.90 ERA

and WW and Johnson win 20 games each with ERA’s under 2.40 and outperform him in every other rate stats (K/9, K/BB, FIP, WHIP, etc.) it’s more than 90% likely that he’ll win it, for three reasons:

  1. He was the frontrunner at the ASB.
  2. He carried a sub-1.00 ERA into June, which hasn’t been done by anyone in nearly a half century.
  3. He’ll have won the most games of any NL pitcher in nearly 40 years. The last pitcher with more than 25 wins in the NL was Carlton in ‘72 when he had 27. Steve Stone had 25 for the Cubs in 1980. If you don’t think that’s going to be a huge story, just wait and see what happens if he’s sitting at 22 wins at the end of August. He’ll have about 8 starts left and a record of 22-1 or 22-2 possibly. It will be ALL OVER the WWL for that month, even if Johnson and WW have ERA’s under 2.00 at the time.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

okay, well now you're arguing based on a bunch of huge assumptions as to how ubaldo, waino, and johnson finish the season.

my argument was that if the season ended today, with ubaldo having only one more win than waino, and being behind both waino and johnson in every other category, he’s not a sure thing to win it. especially now that johnson’s ERA is so much lower, and now that JJ and WW have more strikeouts.

you are saying that if ubaldo has 25 or 26 wins and waino and and johnson have only 20 each, he will win. this is an entirely different argument. and it seems highly unlikely, given that waino is only one win behind him right now, that ubaldo will win 6+ more games than waino over the second half of the season.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not a sure thing

But I’m 90% sure he would, for two of the above reasons that I listed.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

...

i think the cy is going to be another media bias. waino deserved it last year and does this year, too. frankly, i hope he gets it this time. but i just don’t see that happening. i think jimenez is going to win it unless he has a terrible second half.

by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 19, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lincecum was better last year

You can argue Waino had better results (thus perhaps deserved the award on that count) but Lincecum pitched better.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 19, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

Tiny Tim deserved it last year. I wasn’t particularly surprised or even disappointed when the results were announced. It was important for A.D.A.M. to get his reputation visible to the general MLB public by landing in the top three at the very least.

"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."

by The Classical on Jul 19, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I don’t think there’s a rational argument for giving the award to anyone but Lincecum last season. He led the league in WAR and had fantastic peripherals in the best NL division.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wait, what?

Not a rational argument?

You protestesth too much, methinks. I am of the belief that with the possible exception of Carpenter (because he missed a few starts), you couldn’t have gone wrong with any of the top 3 last year.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Based on what?

That Wainwright had more wins than Lincecum? Lincecum had better ERA AND better peripherals. The only thing Wainwright had was 8 more innings…….because he somehow got 2 extra starts.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 19, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the basis that. . .

all 3 of them were truly outstanding pitchers. I would have voted for Lincecum, probably, but to say that there was no rational argument that Wainwright should have won is far too strong.

If you want me to make the case, here goes:

- Wainwright put up similar #s to Lincecum despite pitching in more hitter-friendly environs (SF>STL) and, generally speaking against more hitter-friendly teams.

- Wainwright put up similar #s to Lincecum despite pithing in front of an arguably worse defense (using DefEff).

- Wainwright made two more starts.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

A pitcher could pitch 35 quality starts in a season and have an ERA of 4.50

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 19, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

hey, i'm not saying waino should have won

just agreeing with southside that if he had won, there were “rational” arguments for giving it to him.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

That statement is also a bit overdone, methinks. . .

for several reasons:

- First, there is the unstated assumption that “everything statistical research has tried to demonstrate” is intended to be retrospective rather than predictive. I disagree with that assumption.

- Second, there is the unstated assumption that Cy Young and other awards are intended to award “should have” results rather than “did occur” results. (And note, by results, I am not talking about wins, necessarily.)

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

well duh

But a quality start, by definition, is one that is at least average (<= 4.50 ERA). So if a guy has 23 consecutive wuality starts he’s gonna be damn good.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 19, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

So 23 consecutive "average" starts

would be considered exceptional?

I’m confused.

Sure, that guy is probably a really good pitcher, but is he the “best” pitcher? Derek Lowe had 20 quality starts last year and was considered to be a bust after signing his big contract. Lincecum had 24 quality starts, they just weren’t in a row, and he pitched 2 fewer starts than WW, so he might have had 26 QS last season had they thrown the same number of starts.

So even by QS, Lincecum owns him, unless you only count “doing things in consecutive order” as valuable. In which case, Dimaggio is the best hitter of all time and Gagne is the best closer.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see Gagne's 2003

and raise you Eck’s 1990

FOUR walks in 73 innings. ERA of 0.61. 18.25 K/BB.

That’s just ridiculous.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously.....

….every batter he faced should have just shrugged and walked quietly back to the dugout that season…
:=8)

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 19, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's just an amazing season

Maybe 6 guys the whole season got good wood on one of his pitches.

Kinda reminds me of what Garcia is doing this year — nobody can square up the ball on him.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amazing stats:

0.61 ERA!
0.614 WHIP!
0.5 BB/9!!!
18.25 K/BB

And only got 1% of the CY vote that year!!!
:=8O

And was only 6th in MVP voting behind KELLY GRUBER???
:=8O

A different world….

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on Jul 19, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I'd still take Gagne, as much as I like that Eck year

41% of all plate appearances against Gagne that year ended in a strikeout. Gagne allowed sixteen more baserunners via the walk (in nine more innings) but allowed four fewer hits, even with a BABIP that was 20-ish points higher.

by DanUpBaby on Jul 19, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

because no one

is going to have 23 consecutive starts of exactly 6 IP and exaclty 3 runs allowed.

why does this even need to be explained? waino did at least that 23 consecutive times. a lesser pitcher would slip up and only go 5 IP or allow 4 runs at some point

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see why that's more valuable than a guy

who has a higher percentage of QS like Lincecum did. Why does it have to be 23 in a row to be valuable? Why is 23 in a row MORE valuable than 24 out of 31?

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

that wasn't the claim

the claim was that if a guy has 23 consecutive quality starts “he’s gonna be damn good.”

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

or just remarkably consistent, i'd say

אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס

by chalk on Jul 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that's not true

without looking at other evidence. It’s entirely possible to go 23 consecutive QS and have an FIP of better than 4.20, which would be about league average. Hell, Derek Lowe had an FIP of 4.06 and an ERA of 4.67 last season and had 20 quality starts? I know, it’s not 23, but it serves to show the point.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Egads. . .

no one is saying that it is.

This is a complete straw man.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, the claim is that if a guy has 23 consecutive QS that

“He’s gonna be damn good”

Sorry, but that’s just not true. He could be league average. Without looking at other statistics, you can’t make that claim.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's incredibly unlikely

how bout that?

way to be pedantic

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

But it's NOT incredibly unlikely

You’re the one being pedantic here, not me. You can’t judge someone to be “damn good” based on strictly quality starts.

In 2009, these pitchers had 20 or more “quality starts”:

  • John Garland – 23 QS/4.48 FIP
  • Doug Davis – 22 QS/4.84 FIP
  • Derek Lowe – 21 QS/4.27 FIP
  • Joe Blanton – 21 QS/4.45 FIP
  • Zach Duke – 21QS/4.24 FIP

League average FIP last year was about 4.25, so only one of those guys was better than league average in FIP while pitching 20+ quality starts. You have to look at more than just QS to determine whether a guys is “damn good”. That’s all I’m saying.

FWIW, I bet you could find at least 5 guys every year that throw 20+ QS and have FIP’s worse than league average. I don’t see why that would be an “incredibly unlikely” event.

If you change the stat, as suggested here, in which the starter must allow fewer walks + hits than innings pitched, you get a much higher correlation to pitching success than the QS that is used now. Looking at that stat, last year only Nolasco had a below average ERA for starters with more than 9 Real Quality Starts, and his FIP was about 2 runs better than his ERA, suggesting that he was extremely unlucky to have an ERA that bad.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

okay, fair enough

i don’t think you know what pedantic means, though. unless you just wanted to say “no u”

that makes me wrong, not pedantic

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

So now you're insulting my intelligence as well?

Awesome.

It’s such a pleasure to have you here.

Seems to me that someone who’s:

overly concerned with minute details or formalisms

Would argue that their definition was right in the face of evidence to the contrary. And then do it over and over and over again.

I’m not obsessed with minute details or formalisms at all. I simply made the claim that judging a pitcher’s performance based on quality starts is a poor judgment. What is so hard about that to understand? It’s not pedantic, it’s a fact.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

not really

there are words that i don’t know the meaning of either

and it seems that when evidence to the contrary was presented, i admitted that i was wrong. so i’m not sure where i was laboring small details or formalisms

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

okay, well waino allowed 2 or fewer earned runs 26 times

lincecum allowed two or fewer earned runs only 21 times

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except not really

Since 8 IP, 4 ER is not a quality start.

It is a terrible statistic, arbitrary on the same level as the save.

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the straw man argument

Obviously, if Wainwright had an ERA of 4.50 while making 35 quality starts, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's exactly his point

If you look at JUST quality starts, that doesn’t tell you anything.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course.

But who is looking at JUST quality starts on this board?

Straw man, maybe, but no one else.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the point is

That there’s literally no use for quality starts. If you’re looking at other things, quality starts tell you pretty much nothing of use. It’s like wins — they can give you a general sense of how well a guy is pitching, but once you have access to better statistics, they become totally worthless due to their arbitrary nature.

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

They can count for consistency. . .

but I agree that they serve very little purpose.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

they're a whole lot

less general and arbitrary than wins. It may not be the best statistic, but by doing at least that well that many times in a row says at least something.

by WyoCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah that was my point

not the quality starts, the consistency

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Drawing the line at 6+ IP and 3 or less ER is pretty arbitrary

9 IP and 4 ER is not a quality start? Pretty silly if you ask me. There’s no logical justification for the way the quality start line in defined.

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I kinda like the definition of the blog I linked to below. Seems to make a lot of sense to put it at:

  • H+W<IP.

Or, even better

  • H+W+HBP+R < IP which would be REAL Quality Starts.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know this has been discussed

but I think a lot of the dislike for the quality start comes from the name. If it were named something else, like “adequate starts” or something, people wouldn’t get so fired up about its use. I do agree that the line is pretty arbitrary, and they could and should have done some things differently. I just don’t think it was ever meant to have the weight that it has with some people today.

by WyoCardsFan on Jul 21, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmmmm...
  1. Busch III is more hitter friendly than San Fran? Mmmmmmm…I don’t think so. By park factors, Busch III is a 99 or 98 (pitcher friendly), whereas San Fran is a 104 (hitter friendly), so Lincecum clearly pitched in a more hitter friendly park and put up much better peripherals.
  2. More hitter friendly teams? I don’t know how you can make this argument with a straight face. The West last year had 3 teams with better than league average offense by runs scored (Colorado, Arizona, and the Dodgers), the Central only had two, and one of those was the Cardinals (the Brewers being the other one), who WW doesn’t pitch against. Had Lincecum gotten to pitch against his own team 3 or 4 times (and WW pitch against the Cardinals the same amount of times) you might have a case, but with the numbers the way they are, you really can’t.
  3. I would concede on defense, but I have no idea what that has to do with Wainwright being a better pitcher. By FIP, Lincecum was the better pitcher, and that factors out as much defense as possible. By xFIP Lincecum was the better pitcher as well.
  4. So the Giants should have thrown Lincecum on 3 days rest a couple of times? How about this: Lincecum led the league in CG and Shutouts, with 2 more CG that WW and two more shutouts. So I think that more than offsets the two fewer starts.

If you can’t make a claim that can’t be refuted easily with evidence, then it’s really not a rational claim.

FWIW — On October 5th of last year, if you had to pick a starter to start a play in game for you, are you taking WW or Lincecum? You really can’t go wrong either way, but I’m taking Lincecum because he misses more bats and allows fewer hits.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

linecum had less starts b/c he was scratched once or twice with a minor injry

not that that has any relevance, just FYI

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Responding:

1) Park Factors: I saw those numbers, too, and ESPN’s park factors, as well. Those numbers tend to be skewed, even on the multi-year example, by the relative ability of teams to build an offense and a defense to match their park, the quality of their pitching staffs, and the quality of their offenses.

2) Hitter-friendly teams: Wainwright faced the top 3 offenses (PHI, MIL, COL) 8 times, with 3 of those outings in Milwaukee and 1 of them in Coors. Lincecum faced the top 3 offenses 6 times, but all but 1 of them was in the friendly confines of AT&T.

3) FIP would say that all else being equal, Lincecum “should” be the best pitcher going forward, it doesn’t mean that he got the best results.

4) Lincecum was shelved for a couple of starts.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just anecdotally

Trying to correct for pitching staff ability and bias here, but I think AT&T Park plays more like a pitcher’s park. I’ve seen a lot of games played in both and it seems like there’s almost never anything happening offense-wise in AT&T Park, and I’ve seen tons of deep, DEEP fly balls turn into outs in that ridiculous right-center field alley.

(I saw this happen live — I wasn’t rooting for the Red Sox here, but it was still tragic. Yes, that’s Jon Lester hitting. Yes, it’s Tim Lincecum pitching. Yes, the bases were loaded. ALMOST totally epic.)

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Common sense. . .

It’s a bigger ballpark, harder to hit HR, and perhaps slightly more susceptible to crooked numbers for line-drive hitting teams than for Earl Weaver wait-for-the-3-run-HR teams, thanks to the big OF, particularly in LF.

Oh, hell, just look at this:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/home-run-park-factor-a-new-approach/

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

True. . .

but as one of the three true outcomes, and one of only two that “cause” run-scoring, if you eliminate or severely reduce the ability to hit HRs, that is a BIG DEAL.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is a big deal

But it’s obviously not the only deal. Seems the same Fenway effect is in play with the wall that is 309 feet away in RF.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 19, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

FIP way overvalues k's

Also I thought Carp had better peripherals aside from FIP which would make him more deserving. Unless I’m misremenring about Carp then Timmay wasn’t undeserving and was better than waino but not the best meaning that if they go by traditional Cy Young stats Waino should have won and if they woke up and learned how to analyze the best pitcher then Carp should have won and the only reason Tim is not second is media attention screwing a Cardinal. That said aside from some douche sportswriters not even biting Caro this wasn’t exactly a crime.

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 19, 2010 4:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Voting Carp*

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 19, 2010 4:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The argument that I liked the most at the time was

Waino had the quantity over Lincecum
Carp had the quality over Lincecum (Debatable, but let’s go with it)

Licecum had both

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 19, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

um
FIP way overvalues k’s

explain?

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand the theory that a pitcher controls k's so thereof they are fielder independent

And a repeatable measurement of quality but in an attempt to factor put luck/bad feilding it makes k’s valuable and weak contact of no more value than an Allen Craig style line drive right at somebody

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 19, 2010 4:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

that's no an overvaluing of Ks

it’s an undervaluing of a pitcher’s ability to maintain a sub-average BABIP. and while it’s there, it’s not that significant. the amount that of BABIP variance below league average that is within a pitcher’s control is probably .020 at the most. meaning the best pitchers at that particular skill would have a luck neutral .280 BABIP. not significant

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The part of that where I disagree is what composes BABIP

Such as LD% is not pitcher independent. Good stuff doesn’t always miss the bats it may just miss good contact

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 19, 2010 4:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

and if someone has such good stuff

that batters can’t make solid contact, there will be more instances where the batters make no contact

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

FIP does NOT overvalue K's

We’ve been over this about eight hundred times.

You’re trying to give VEP a heart attack!!!

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

:D

K = out
ground-out = out
pop-up = out
fly-out = out
Line-out = out

there for:

K = ground-out = fly-ball = pop-up = line-out = fly-out

All outs are equal!

Are ks weighted equally to ground-outs, line-outs, fly-outs and pop-ups in FIP?

by Evilfrog on Jul 19, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're joking, right?

אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס

by chalk on Jul 19, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

what part is a joke?

That all outs are not created equal?

by Evilfrog on Jul 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

three, that is.

אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס

by chalk on Jul 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

but groundballs result in an out 60% of the time

Ks result in an out 99% of the time

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

groundballs

and their ability to be converted to outs is not something a pitcher has control over

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

to some extent they do.

If the induce weak contact they should expect the out most of the time. There is some noise in there…

Which would you rather see aaron miles due, strike-out on 5 pitches, ground out to the short stop on one, get DFA’d?

The answer is, in order:

DFA’d
Strike-out on 5 pitches
ground out on 1.

by Evilfrog on Jul 19, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

GAH

No, I’d rather see him hit a ground ball to short, because there’s a chance of an error, or of it getting past the shortstop and trickling into the outfield for a single. BECAUSE I LIKE HITS WHICH ARE NECESSARY TO WIN BASEBALL GAMES

אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס

by chalk on Jul 19, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll keep this in mind if I ever catch you

complaining about Miles first pitch swinging.

by Evilfrog on Jul 19, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair, I'd actually prefer him to strike out, or only reach on errors, so he can be DFA'd as soon as possible

But if it were, e.g., Holliday, I’d prefer him to make contact rather than strike out, even if it’s on the first pitch. Because hitting a ground ball doesn’t always lead to an out, and striking out does. (okay, reaching on wild pitches / passed balls excepted)

אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס

by chalk on Jul 19, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'd like him to succeed

but thats just not likely to happen

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that's a sample size of one

Over large sample sizes, some percentage of those ground balls are gonna be hits, and almost none of the strikeouts are going to lead to a man on base

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 19, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are those the Three True Outcomes of Miles?

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes?

But some how he has a batting average of over .360 :shrug:

by Evilfrog on Jul 19, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fun with graphs


Aaron Miles’ key to success in 2010 — hit more fly balls and less line drives!

Yes…this seems sustainable.

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fliners

Miles is so weak—that is, his bat has so little pop—that I think he confounds hit classifications. Essentially, he slaps Little League pop flies out to a depth of 150 feet and no one can get them. They are so softly hit that they are decidedly not line drives and they are so shallow that they are not really flyballs, either. They are gritty fliners.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which means that teams should start playing their outfielders

at a depth similar to that of the outfielders in the Celebrity Softball Game at All-Star weekend.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Last week,

Joker posted Miles’s spray charter from texasleaguers.com, and you’re right. Only one hit would have been problematic to such a defensive alignment.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

sweet jesus

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'd like to see the outcome

that results with a runner on base 30% of the time more than the one where it results in a man on base <1% of the time

see also chalk’s answer

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because strikeouts aren't THAT much worse than any other out (although they're certainly worse than putting a ball in play)

and they have a strong correlation with hitting for power.

אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס

by chalk on Jul 19, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

what?

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because he still gets on base, which is the goal

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 19, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

mancrush

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think the better thing to look at would be the pitches that produce the k vs. the pitches that produce the ground ball.

first, a pitcher who gets more outs from BIP is probably going to throw fewer pitches, and therefore be effective for longer, both in the game and in the season…in theory.

also, and i have no idea what the data would be, but i wonder what percentage of the time the pitch that leads to the K actually leads to a K.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

BIP are weighted with a 0

strikeouts are not. FIP does not treat Ks the same as any other out.

Silly humans, this world is for robots.

by azruavatar on Jul 19, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wainwright. . .

got more outs than Lincecum, ergo, he was a better pitcher.

;)

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please tell me this is not serious...

Because if it is, you’re going to have a lot of internet reading to do when I start posting links.

All outs are not equal, sir, and they never have been.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're right

Ground outs are more valuable with the DP in order than Ks and pretty much every other type of out you can get.

Ks and pop outs are more valuable than fly-outs, line-ups, and ground-outs because they don’t allow the runner to score.

by Evilfrog on Jul 19, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

and when measuring “pitching talent”, you’re looking for a metric that is nearly defense independent, and FIP is. It’s fairly crude, but it’s pretty effective.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we are better off

including FIP, ERA, and tRA. As well as all the other stats when comparing pitchers. Everything is flawed. The more data you can throw into it the better.

by Evilfrog on Jul 19, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone one-stop shopped for a lone stat to make their Cy Young decision on.

At least, I hope not. I try to look at as much as possible. One way to address the type of contact being allowed, in my opinion, is opposition SLG. Opponents slashed .152/.219/.167 against Lincecum. Against Wainwright, opponents slashed .180/.189/.326. This would lead me to conclude that Wainwright gave up more hard-hit balls than Lincecum.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

But. . .

there were less men on base. OBP is Life; Life is OBP.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

But....

fewer people scored on Lincecum than on Wainwright. And runs are what win games.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Lincecum's unavailability for two starts. . .

and exiting two starts early led to the Giants having to start lesser pitchers and tax their bullpen.

Look, I’m still just trying to show how there are rational arguments to be made that Wainwright deserved the Cy Young last season.

If their performances weren’t so close (6 runs allowed over the course of 200+ IP), I might agree with you, but all of those other factors can and should come into play.

Otherwise, we could just award the Cy Young to the pitcher that records the most outs, or records the highest percentage of outs, or anything else, any one of which metrics would be a somewhat arbitrary measure of pitcher performance.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was just trying to find a way to address the "Ks vs. weak contact" subthread.

I agree that it was very, very close. I’d have probably voted Lincecum first and Wainwright second, largely because of the strikeouts.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

calculate it!

wOBA = (.72*(W – IW) + .75*HB + .90*S + .92*ROE + 1.24*D + 1.56*T + 1.95*HR)/PA

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'll do that.

אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס

by chalk on Jul 19, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

By all of those metrics Lincecum was a better pitcher last year

By just about every other rate stat and peripheral stat he was a better pitcher as well.

If that’s what you use, the data clearly points to Lincecum being the better pitcher.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait. . .

pitching “talent” or pitching “performance”?

And is the Cy Young supposed to be an award for the best pitching talent? Or the best pitching performance?

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both

You can’t have a great performance over an entire season without some type of talent.

If you’re judging pitching “performance” don’t you want to judge the pitcher and not his defense and teammates and coaches’ positioning? So you have to get it down to what they control.

FWIW, there’s no possible way that a ground ball is ever as valuable as a strikeout. In any situation. Because that ground ball always has the chance to be misplayed, find a hole, etc. Any ball in play can result in a man reaching base, a strikeout is nearly always (99.9%) an out.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope....

because you can’t count on that DP to be turned. You can’t even count on them making an out on that ground ball in all actuality. However, a strikeout with a man on first is an out 100% of the time.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, man. . .

you’re confusing me with someone else. I’m not arguing FIP or xFIP here (although I have in the past). I’m just saying that actual results should count for more than results as they would have occurred in a sterile, utopian world.

Again, I would have probably voted for Lincecum, but I can make a very compelling argument for Wainwright based upon two extra starts, more consistency, and a higher degree of difficulty.

FWIW, if you put all of Wainwright’s starts and Lincecum’s starts in a pot and pulled out the two shortest, Lincecum would have had those two shortest starts (i.e. a 3 IP and a 4.1 IP), and two others that were less than 6 IP. Wainwright never threw less than 5 IP, and only had two starts that were less than 6 IP. Throw in the 2 extra starts, and Wainwright was more consistent, and more consistently available than Lincecum.

And in my book, when you have two pitchers that were similarly brilliant, that counts for something. Maybe it doesn’t count for enough to overcome Lincecum’s more mercurial season in less IP and less starts, but that’s in the eye of the beholder.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

the problem with this argument that it looks at what MIGHT happen, as opposed to what DID happen

if a groundball results in an out 100% of the time, then it IS just as valuable, and in fact MORE valuable because it lead to double plays and it (in theory) took fewer pitches from the pitcher to achieve.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

You show me a season in which a team turned a pitcher's ground balls into a higher percentage of outs than that same pitcher's strikeouts

I’ll just go out on a limb and say that this has NEVER HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME.

In fact, if you look at the pitchers who were statistically dominant at run suppression, it’s pretty clear that pitchers who strike out more guys were also the guys who suppress runs the best. The only pitcher who you MIGHT be able to make a case for would be Maddux, and even Maddux’s best seasons happened to coincide with seasons in which he had better strikeout rates.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

obviously, i'm not arguing that a groundball will be an out at a higher percentage of the time than a strike out

all i’m saying is that there are certain circumstances where a groundball is, in FACT, based on what actually happened, more valuable than a strikeout, because the pitcher achieved 2 outs (or more) outs with one pitch.

i can’t show you a season where a groundball resulted in an out a higher percentage of the time than a strikeout resulted in an out, but i bet you can’t show me a season where a strikeout with a runner on first produced more than one out a higher percentage of the time than a ground ball did.

i guess it depends on what your definition of value is in any given situation.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably the definition of value for a pitcher is preventing runs.

If you have a runner on first, would the run expectancy decrease more with a groundball than with a K?
To analyze that, you’d have to look at groundball double play percentage, hit percentage, run expectancy, outs, whether there’s a runner at third, K-CS DPs.
Of course, I’m both too lazy and not knowledgeable enough to totally analyze that, but I’d say that Ks are better for pitchers, even with a man on first, than GBs. And given that, I’s say a K is more valuable.

אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס

by chalk on Jul 19, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not even a fair comparison.

A strikeout can never result in more than one out.

Situationally, it still doesn’t matter — the strikeout is more valuable. For the ground ball to incur more than one out, that means someone has to be on base, which is already less than optimal. Then you have to force a ground ball that’s fairly hard hit, as soft grounders or choppers rarely turn into double plays, and force it close to or right at a fielder, and then have him field it. Then either two throws have to be completed or at least one throw. There’s an entire slew of events that have to happen in order to complete a double play, and each of those events can be goofed up and the double play not turned. If there’s a runners on 1st and 3rd, a run can score if the double play is not turned with one out and will score if there is less than one out regardless. With a strikeout, the run will not score unless the ball is passed the catcher, and even then only about 50% of the time.

Trust me, run expectancy for a strikeout is clearly better than run expectancy for a ground ball, regardless of the situation on the bases.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

not to reopen this subthread

but “no rational argument” is clearly an overstatement.

IMHO Lincecum deserved the Cy (if I were given a vote, I definitely would have voted for him)….but Carp & Waino had strong cases of their own and dismissing them out of hand is (again IMHO) a disservice to their accomplishments. Lincecum did not run away with it; he was not head-and-shoulders above the pack.

by nota bene on Jul 19, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

And this year

The only way Johnson isn’t leading the pack is “teh winz”

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 19, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Jimenez will win it

because I think he’ll fall short of 24 wins, and the WWL will be all over how poorly he pitched “down the stretch”, “when the games count” and how he wasn’t able to get to 24 wins when he was 15-1 at the break. Adam has been absolutely fantastic in both August and September the past two seasons, when healthy, so I think he’ll end up getting to 23 wins by the end of the year with an ERA around 2.30 and WHIP around 1.00. He also strikes out more hitters than Ubaldo does, and the writers love them some strikeouts.

Johnson has only thrown 200 innings once in his career so far, which was last year. He’s on pace for nearly 220 innings this season and 34-35 starts. That would be a lot for him, and I’m not sure he’ll make it all the way to the end of the season without missing a few starts or getting shelled because of a dead arm in a couple.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd probably chose Johnson as of now

Waino has a pretty big edge in innings pitched, but Johnson has pitched better in his innings. I think that Waino is as good or better than Johnson going forward so he’ll end with comparable numbers in many more innings pitched. Plus, winz.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 19, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd probably choose Johnson right now too

but I look at them as 1 and 1a, and I just don’t see Johnson finishing as well as he’s pitched thus far.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I marginally like Waino, I think

but then I really rate IP as a stat for elite pitchers. I don’t think it matters for average and below-average guys, but the extra innings that your <3.00FIP ace can throw, that don’t have to be thrown by middle relief guys or 6th/7th starters really are a huge increase in quality.

But yeah, it’s close. I’m sorta hopeful Waino wins it this year, for the reasons fourstick suggested. I also think having prior form (i.e. putting up a Cy-Young quality season two years in a row) helps, as opposed to a “one-year wonder” like Johnson or Jimenez in the BBWAA’s eyes (and yes, I know Ubaldo and Johnson have more or less put up the same years they’ve done in the past, give or take).

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 19, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

i would, too, but, assuming both johnson and waino continue pitching exactly as they have

they will end up with very similar stats, except waino will probably have close to 20 IP over johnson and more wins. if waino has 20 wins and (effectively) three games’ worth of IP over johnson, that could make a difference. carp may have won last year but for those games he missed.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

nobody EVER mention the CY race again

threadsplosion!

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

...

i’m still trying to come to terms on how the cards came back. granted, soup pitched very well (which is, i hate to say it, rare). i just figured that given our starting lineup and the fact that soup was pitching, we had no chance at winning. tlr had hated the sweep again, and we would win 3 out of 4 like we had so many times.

unfortunately for me, i missed the end of the comeback because i had to take my mom to the airport. that was before the bottom of the 9th. i had liked the fact that the cards were hitting broxton hard in the bottom of the 8th, but i just figured that we had little chance. i left my house hoping, but not really believing.

i was quite shocked to find that the cardinals had come back – and even more shocked (and disappointed) that i missed it. i’m glad that craig got a hit at a clutch time, because he was deserving. and then, matt holliday. earlier in the game i had tweeted the ‘go count your money’ meme, when we had the bases loaded and he swung on the first pitch. i was probably the most shocked that he was the one with the game-winning hit, given his previous RISP issues.

in yesterday’s pregame, i said this gem:

well, this lineup would’ve been the perfect give-away game with miles at 2nd instead of schu. alas, we’ll lose anyways. if we win with this lineup, i’ll say tony is a genius. with a dagger in my heart.

i’ll stick to my word. TONY IS A GENIUS (dies)

by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 19, 2010 9:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Just out of curiosity,

Do you not own a radio? That was the only way I kept up with it yesterday.

/just kidding ya zz

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 19, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Does he bask in the Pure Waters of Michigan?

I am really getting tired of that travel advertising campaign.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it just happens to be on a lot on the channels I watch

Any campaign like that will get annoying with enough repetition, but this one is kinda cheesy to begin with.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ew.

"They punched me a lot," Holliday said of the celebration [after his July 18 walk-off single]. "But they were good punches."

by vico on Jul 19, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Explains so much!

"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles

by jd is legend on Jul 19, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then you'll be happy to know

There is a chance the cards move back to KMOX next year. Simulcast on WXOS seems to be the other possibility, since KTRS’s signal is still shit.

by DarkHelmut on Jul 19, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not possib...

Oh My God, What Is That?

I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?

by The Continental on Jul 19, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd like both, myself.

FM tuners just seem to be more plentiful on MP3 players, etc.

I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?

by The Continental on Jul 19, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

On Holliday's hit to RF for the win, Ethier got turned around.

Ludwick woulda had that.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 19, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good thing Luddy plays for us then,huh?

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 19, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

RFL!!!!

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Jul 19, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, sorta

currently, “plays” isn’t the word i would use :’(

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ethier has pretty assy range in right field

He’s a left fielder playing right field. The problem is that Manny is a fat circus clown playing left field.

But when Xavier Paul is in, Ethier should be in left and Paul in right, for sure.

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

he pitched ok, i wouldn't say very well

1 K, 1 BB…. most of the time you give up more than one run with that line… so the universe is restored thankfully

also im pretty surprised you were shocked that you missed the comeback when you weren’t home…. that’s something i would’ve expected you to already know…. now you can be shocked that we came back, but you should expect to miss comebacks whenever you’re not watching it

Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog

by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 19, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

OT: Re: Wainwright

on channel 2 sports extra last night. Wainwright had Lincicum show him his change grip. Wainwright was later messing with it and couldn’t get it right. So he text’ his buddy the Colonel. Had him take a picture of the grip, and send it to him. Which Welly did.

by Evilfrog on Jul 19, 2010 9:44 AM EDT reply actions  

hahahahaha

It’s the year of the motherfu—
shut yo’ mouth!
Just talkin’ ’bout the pitchers.

This with Carp talking to Kuroda… I think this whole “staff as a team” thing is sweeping the nation.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

see... they started beating up Holliday, and then the tables were turned...

P-D pic

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 9:45 AM EDT reply actions  

...

Holy Crap

'Why are you 40 with highlights?' - Scott Rolen during interview with Kevin Millar

by Heisenberg on Jul 19, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

When did Larue lose the mullet?

He actually looks kind of bad ass there. That just doesn’t compute at all.

by Mulliganstew on Jul 19, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

before May 19.

Gel. Kyle Lohse. Colby got a haircut. Et cetera.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

also Jaime did shave his beard before his last start.

and Boog? stacheless.

don’t everyone panic all at once.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why panic if they're playing better?

Maybe the extra weight was slowing them down?

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 19, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

...

I’ll raise you one.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well played.

'Why are you 40 with highlights?' - Scott Rolen during interview with Kevin Millar

by Heisenberg on Jul 19, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

it makes me wonder what the photographer is into.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

i can't decide

if that’s his own hand or not

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

tis

we saw it live.

but you can tell by the wristbands. …wait, actually you can. his cancer awareness bracelet is just out of frame.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

it'd be funnier

if it were mather’s hand as boog turned back to face him after falling for a “hey! look over there!”

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting Game

Last night had many of the first half problems crop up, but they were able to overcome them in the last two innings. (unlike the first half)

Bad defense (mostly by Lopez)
Bad baserunning (mostly by Holiday)
Bad hitting in general against a pedestrian pitcher (Padilla)
Bad clutch hitting by Pujols and Holiday
Bad clutch bullpen by Boggs (although helped by bad defense of Larue and Lopez)
Good starting pitching with no support

Then the world changed late and they beat up the dominant closer in the NL (Broxton) Holiday became clutch again
Albert smiled again
The kids were everywhere
Schumaker played great defense
Ryan looked like the Ryan of 2009, not 2010

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jul 19, 2010 9:49 AM EDT reply actions  

overall the defense was superb yesterday

*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 19, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

this didn't happen in the first half
Bad clutch bullpen by Boggs

also clutch? really? he’s gonna give up some runs, and since he’ll come in the 7th or 8th inning most nights, its inevitable he’ll give up runs…. that doesn’t make him unclutch or clutch

Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog

by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 19, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I disagree with about 60% of this.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 19, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I gotta go, ahead of the storm

but Wainwright and Craig did up some records standing since the 20’s. I was going to look it up someday.

Meanwhile, wow, Alex Gonzalez.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 10:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Jocketty is pulling out all the stops

just four years too late…

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Jul 19, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Has Jocketty gone soft in the head?

Then again, he’s not the only one:

Appearing on KFNS 590 The Fan with Doug Vaughn this morning, free agent reliever Jason Isringhausen said he has a tentative plan to audition for the Reds tomorrow. Isringhausen added that he expects to hear back from the Cardinals this week and implied that his agent has been in contact with the Yankees, Rays, and Royals.

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah,

the “…hear back from the Cardinals…” part is what troubles me. I’d be fine with him going to CIN.

by goodymobb on Jul 19, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, he is working on a change-up.

Must figure that if it worked for Hoffman, it might work for him. Good luck to him is all I can say.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 19, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd normally agree,

but see generally, Miles, Aaron and Suppan, Jeffrey. Nothing’s inconceivable anymore.

by dronemc on Jul 19, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn't want to be outdone in the former-Cardinals race.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

sign him, makes TLR jealous

release him, TLR makes Mo go get him.

see Miles, Aaron

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can only hope this happens

He’s done, and it would give even fewer innings to talented guys who got off to bad starts, like Masset.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Russ Springer, too.

I can only imagine he’s on the phone to Braden Looper and Tyler Johnson as we speak.

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 19, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

You can hardly blame Jocketty.

I mean, that was a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.

I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?

by The Continental on Jul 19, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kendrick and Blanton both shut us down and Howard as well as the Phillies in general kill us

Also if we do somehow win the first three Waino has the getaway day lineup behind him. That we do stand a good chance in each game. Just say yes to four game sweeps. That last game against the Dodgers made me happy beyond words

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jul 19, 2010 10:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Yeah

nice little run we’re on right now, which is something this team hasn’t been able to sustain this year. Hopefully they can keep it going and win the series against PHI.

Also, I hate TLR’s throwaway lineups as much as anyone, but no way he EVER does that for Waino or Carp. In fact, there was some stat discussed last week about how LaRue caught Carpenter for like 1 inning TOTAL in the last several years.

TLR puts so much emphasis on “getting _ the W” that I just don’t see him tossing his throwaway/getaway lineup out there for either of the aces.

by goodymobb on Jul 19, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like this quote from Big Mac:
I’m always impressed with walks. I think walks are the key to a winning season, and that’s all about being patient at the plate.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did you happen to read Bernie's peice?
And the four-game sweep was especially sweet for manager Tony LaRussa, who was insulted and lampooned on Internet message boards by irrational fans who all but accused him of trying to forfeit the game based on his choices for a starting lineup

That’s probably because he did Bernie.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 19, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, nevermind the history so far this season...

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I love it when Bernie turns into a dimwit over one game.

So, should we start Allen Craig over Albert Pujols until we lose, Bernie? Because that’s what you seem to be suggesting.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

As Crash Davis would say:
You don’t fuck with a streak.

No word on whether Ryan Franklin is swearing off sex until he loses a game though….

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

believe me

tony tried to give up the sweep. they just happened to find a way to win in the end.

by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 19, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah,

The B team said “Fuck you, TLR. We’re winning this bitch, whether you want us to or not.”

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 19, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

TLR is a genius...he went to the younguns and old grizzled vets who are

all washed up and during the 7th inning stretch he said:
Well, boys … I haven’t a thing to say.
Played a great game…all of you. Great game.
(He tries to smile.)
I guess we just can’t expect to win ‘em all.
(Tony pauses and says quietly.)
I’m going to tell you something I’ve kept to myself for years -
None of you ever knew Darryl Kyle.
It was long before your time.
But you know what a tradition he is in St. Louis…
(There is gentle, faraway look in his eyes as he recalls the boy’s words.)
And the last thing he said to me -
“Rock,” he said -
“sometime, when the team is up against it — and the
breaks are beating the boys — tell them to go out there
with all they got and win just one for the Kyller…
(Tony’s eyes become misty and his voice is unsteady as he finishes.)
I don’t know where I’ll be then, Rock”, he said – “but
I’ll know about it – and I’ll be happy.”

by ADMDrayson on Jul 19, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

well once it was clear the game was in reach

he tried to win…. i guess pinch hitting albert pujols for jason larue proves that to me…. this time it made sense…

suppan is terrible so tony expected to have to score too many runs, something the cards would probably not do, so he put out the B team…. well once the B team got them back into the game, he put his starters back into the game

Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog

by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 19, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I liked yesterday's lineup even before the game.

I didn’t see it as a throwaway game. Neither Miles or Stavi were in the line up. I was very interested in seeing what Jay and Craig together could do. If Albert needs a day off, the Cards have an awesome substitute.

When Soup pitched so well, I was very hopeful the young’uns could do their thing.

"I told myself from the very beginning: 'If he's going to throw a shutout, then he's going to tie,'" Wainwright said. "He was not going to beat me today."

by spfldbird on Jul 19, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

It’s the C-team lineup on a hot day following a succession of hot days. “Throwing the game away” isn’t how I’d describe “not playing the starters 162 games”

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 19, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

We played 3 games last week heading into Sunday.

Had 2 days off on either side of the ASG.

We’re bound to have a succession of hot days in a row the next 6 weeks, so it seems stupid to rest guys who are already well rested. If we were heading into a series with the Reds in Cincy I could understand, but we’re not, we’re home for a four game set with the Phillies.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why not keep them well rested?

In any case, I definitely trust TLR to have a better feel for when to rest Pujols than we can possibly have so that one is off the board and Molina has been the most worked catcher in the NL.

The only one to complain about is Rasmus……..who is still apparently nursing the hammy so who knows.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 19, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Albert had

“bumps and bruises” So yeah, I’m okay with resting him and Rasmus.

I guess the question should be to you want to rest everyone on one game, or rotate peoples rest?

by Evilfrog on Jul 19, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm fine with everyone resting for one game

It’s not that — it’s that it always happens predictably when we’ve won the first 2 or 3 games of a series. So TLR just gives everyone game 3 or game 4 off because we’ve “wrapped up the series”. Then we have media smartheads giving all of us shit because we said it’s a stupid thing to do and that we won the game anyway and that TLR is just really smart and we shouldn’t question the fact that he wasn’t openly trying to lose the game. All of which is total fucking garbage. When you roll out of a lineup without your two best hitters, while throwing your worst starting pitcher, while also benching your best catcher with the worst pitcher at holding runners on the mound, you’re clearly favoring rest over winning that game. So don’t try to paint it the opposite way. It’s not “openly trying to lose a game”, it’s “favoring rest over winning that game”.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

the highest paid hitter played

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on Jul 19, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another argument that bothers me is

the old “he has to rest people sometime!” argument. TLR never puts out the same lineup in consecutive days (ignoring pitcher of course), he rests people all the time. So these days at the end of the series where he rests 3 or 4 starting position players at the same time are clearly games that he’s OK not winning.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I learned a long time ago

never to buy tickets for a Sunday afternoon Card’s game.

Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.

by giveml on Jul 19, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always go Friday and Saturday, then listen on the radio when I drive home on Sunday.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish that he'd put Yadi on two days a week rest.

He’s not as young as was when he started catching. And he has caught a shit-ton of games in the last four years. If LaRue can’t handle catching two games a week then why have him at all?

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 19, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he hadn't pulled Molina, Albert and Rasmus

all on the same day as Soup pitching, then I would be inclined to agree. Then you add on putting Boog(who’s struggles with the bat this season are well known) in instead of Greene(who is at least hitting the ball some), and that’s not really putting your best foot forward.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 19, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Greene is D2D with

a deep bruise in his hand after getting hit.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Jul 19, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

I guess I missed that.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 19, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's because Stavi's on the DL.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 19, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

What?

This suggests that TLR reads internet message boards between the time he releases his lineup and the first pitch. I can’t imagine this to be true.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is exactly what I thought

Which makes it a pretty infuriating comment by Bernie, in my opinion. I just don’t believe Tony pays attention to that sort of thing, so why should he feel so “vindicated” by winning (in come from behind fashion in the last two innings, it must have been according to his genius design).

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

The comment by Bernie is stupid...

But the idea that TLR is “giving up” because the Cards have already won a series is also pretty stupid. Much of this dynamic has to do with the fact that (1) the Cards lead and win quite a few series because they are a good team, especially when Carp and Waino pitch back-to-back early in the series, but are still going to lose at least 1/3 of all games; (2) series enders are often day games after night games, lending themselves to players resting because of reduced recovery time and (3) series enders are also usually at the end of a longer series of consecutive games, thus also calling for rest. And of course, the subs are all worse than the starters, so our chances of winning obviously go down (though in reality we still have a decent shot of winning all games, even when the subs are playing).

Last, because a good percentage of the subs are so terrible – like Miles, LaRue, and Stav, it makes it seem like TLR is “giving up” when in actuality, those are just the subs he has to use. It’s really a complaint about the bench, not a valid complaint that TLR doesn’t care about winning the series ender.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 19, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It doesn't matter who is on the damn bench

Because no matter who it is, they’re not going to be as good as the players they are replacing, as a general rule. If they are, then my complaint isn’t with the “series ending” lineup but with the starting lineup, because we aren’t putting the best team on the field every day.

FWIW, there are a lot of managers that don’t do this, and they still win a shitload of games. Girardi rarely sits his regulars and his bench is far better than ours. Sure, he gets to use the DH, but he didn’t sit regulars when he was in Florida either. TLR is one of the few managers I can think of that does this deliberately and often and mostly on Sundays. I’ve seen him do it during Sunday night games as well.

Again, I don’t have a problem with it overall, just that you can’t make the statement that we’re “putting our best team” on the field or that “we’re trying to win” when it’s clear that rest is favored over wining those games.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

But isn't playing the subs from time to time a positive on TLR teams?

I seem to recall bench players liking the fact that they get chances to play and whatnot.

by saladdays on Jul 19, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

do they need to play all at once?

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

He already shuffles the bench guys in regularly, moreso than most managers.
At the current moment I understand that injuries have magnified this sort of thing (no Luddy or Freese, no Penny or Lohse) but it’s still a little irritating.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true

I don’t see why they have to.

by saladdays on Jul 19, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't ever go so far as to say that Tony "gives up"

He still wants to win those games, but he also has to understand that our chances are reduced when he rests so many people on the same day. I also don’t necessarily think it’s the worst thing in the world, but Bernie acts like like he’s in total denial and it’s clear that a bunch of silly blog types are just making up conspiracy theories.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

he also has to understand that our chances are reduced when he rests so many people on the same day.

I’m pretty sure he realizes that putting worse players out there to play results in a lower chance at winnig that day’s game. Indeed, any time you don’t play your best players, which is what’s going to happen anytime you rest the starters, you are lowering your chnaces at winning that particular game.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 19, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's exactly what I said.

He has to understand this. That is, he must understand. I think he does understand. So what’s the point of Bernie getting in a huff because people on blogs point this out?

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, I understand now

I was just really confused. My comment was kind of confusingly written.
Anyway, this “TLR giving up” scandal is yet another example of things getting blown out of proportion, in part because it’s hard to accurately sift through sarcastic internet speak.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with your logic

Is that before this lucky win (which LaRussa seemed content with losing based on the lineup – meaning 3-4 guys that aren’t the best option instead of 1 or 2 “rest” day) the cardinals are 1-8 in games where they are going for the sweep. How many of those games featured the best lineup they can field on any given day? Exactly 3!! (please note that means at least 2 regulars are sitting for non-injury reasons or any game that inexplicably starts Miles. And in those other 3 at least one or two starters were sitting) That means in 9 games where you admit we should lose 1/3 of them, we’ve lost 88% due in large part to a relatively more crappy lineup than or usual good lineup. So we got lucky yesterday after getting 2 hit through 7 innings.

It’s not stupid to say TLR is giving away games when the results say he is giving away games. You can’t tell me that we needed all of those subpar lineup games to keep the regulars well rested, and how many of those games could we have won if we could have put the best lineup available on the field? At least 2-3 would be a conservative estimate to get us back to just under a .500 winning percentage in sweep games. That’s a 3 game swing in the standings.

So in fairness there is a legit complaint. and it’s not just “stupid” to say TLR is giving away games. If not for a very lucky and semi-miraculous comeback win yesterday which is unprecedented since this team was 2-36 when losing after 8, and now only has 3 wins when losing after 8, they would be 1-9 in attempted sweep games. Those are games they can’t afford to give up.

Before anyone corrects me, i’m not counting the 2 game sweep of the Nationals because it goes against TLR’s mantra of winning the series if they split.

I'm the Albert Belle of Golf...

by RDCardsfan on Jul 19, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think you understood my point

My point was that there are good reasons why he chooses to rest players at the point in the series where the team could be going for a sweep.

As to your other point:

You can’t tell me that we needed all of those subpar lineup games to keep the regulars well rested, and how many of those games could we have won if we could have put the best lineup available on the field?

I’m not trying to tell you this. And I really have no idea how much rest each player needs. TLR and the player are much better judges of this; unless an inury gets reported or a player is on the DL, I have no idea whether a player needs “rest.”

And it’s just speculation of how many more games, if any, we would have won had this player played over this other player over a sample of 8 games.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 19, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair point

But 1-8 in sweep games may be a small sample size, but it’s enough to prove my point, which is that he doesn’t care too much if we lose because he puts a far inferior lineup out there. Maybe you can’t say one way or another that we would have won more games, but given a number of them were 1 and 2 run losses, I think it’s fair to say that with a better lineup we might have won at least one or two more, and in a tight race, that’s the difference between winning the division and a longer offseason for TLR to go improve his golf game.

I'm the Albert Belle of Golf...

by RDCardsfan on Jul 19, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought we were 2-8

with the two sweeps coming in four-game series.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

but I was saying that before yesterday we were 1-8. You’re right though, we’ve won 2 of 10 in sweep situations.

I'm the Albert Belle of Golf...

by RDCardsfan on Jul 19, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

What your point was I guess

You said that your point was he had a good reason for sitting people which is fine, but you did lead off your comment saying that people saying TLR is “giving up” is stupid, so my specific response was to that and I’m showing that in sweep games (which i know are small sample sizes, TLR uses inferior lineups. He’s won only 2 in 10 now, and the last one was complete luck considering we’ve shown relatively no fight as a team when down late. If putting an inferior lineup in with an inferior pitcher going isn’t the definition of conceding a game, or at least not counting it as just as important as the first 2-3 games of the series, then I don’t know what is. Yes he didn’t actually tell the guys to give up, but he had no problem putting a lineup out there that featured one great hitter and not much else. He’s shown a pattern (again in small sample sizes, but since they aren’t going for the sweep in every series of course it’s going to be small sample sizes) that he isn’t very concerned with picking up the sweep and is therefore ok with taking losses in games he deems less important. Great teams get the sweeps and put distance between themselves and mediocre teams. Instead TLR fields weak lineups and sends guys like Suppan and Miles out every so often when the Reds have added Volquez in the middle of the year. If he continues to do this and give away games when in position to sweep, then we’re going to have a very close race down the stretch most likely and if we finish just out of the playoffs, we won’t get back those “rest” games.

I'm the Albert Belle of Golf...

by RDCardsfan on Jul 19, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two points -

If putting an inferior lineup in with an inferior pitcher going isn’t the definition of conceding a game, or at least not counting it as just as important as the first 2-3 games of the series, then I don’t know what is.

Then by your definition he’s conceding a game whenever he doesn’t play his best lineup, which means that no starters ever get rest during the course of the season. While I don’t know how much rest is “enough,” I’m not convinced that NO rest is the right answer. I just don’t think the practice of starting bench players, spread out across the season, is so objectionable or is “conceding” a game.

He’s shown a pattern (again in small sample sizes, but since they aren’t going for the sweep in every series of course it’s going to be small sample sizes) that he isn’t very concerned with picking up the sweep and is therefore ok with taking losses in games he deems less important.

This was what I was arguing against. I think this is likely selection bias and I stated reasons why it may seem that TLR “isn’t going for the sweep” but that it’s better explained by the schedule positioning of the last game in a series.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 19, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not at all what he said, and you know it.
Then by your definition he’s conceding a game whenever he doesn’t play his best lineup, which means that no starters ever get rest during the course of the season.

For one thing, you’ve just taken him completely out of context and applied what he’s saying to a context and situation that he’s not referencing. Are you planning on running for office? Because this is exactly what politicians do and why we can’t get straight answers out of them, ever. It’s absolutely unproductive discourse.

He is clearly referring the the penchant for inferior lineups in the final games of series in which the team has already “won” the series, NOT for every lineup change throughout the season. He’s referring to a certain situation, and I’m guessing that if you pulled the lineups for the games he’s talking about, there’s going to be a lot of bench players playing in those games.

Most of us don’t mind it when TLR gives a guy a day off, most of us have actually been hoping that Yadi gets MORE days off than he does, actually. But to state that he was “playing to win the game” by giving his best players the day off is a misrepresentation of what is going on. Clearly, he’s playing for the long run, and what RD is saying is that giving up 4 or 5 games a season in this manner could cost us a playoff berth at some point. It nearly did in 2006, and that would have been a fucking disaster, because we ended up winning the World Series.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your reading comprehension is poor and you've misrepresented my point. RDCardsfan and I can have a conversation without you confusing the issues in your typical tool-like way.

Please go talk about something more interesting, like how there’s no rational argument to be made for anyone else to have won the Cy Young other than Lincecum last year.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Jul 19, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Irrational" is the adjective Old School likes to slap on to bloggers these days.

"They punched me a lot," Holliday said of the celebration [after his July 18 walk-off single]. "But they were good punches."

by vico on Jul 19, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

McGwire rejects feathers
“I’m always impressed with walks. I think walks are the key to a winning season, and that’s all about being patient at the plate. Especially with these young hitters learning that … it’s an added plus in their cap.

wat

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's getting his cliche's confused again.

Time to work on your interview’s Mac, a little refresher watching of Bull Durham would help:

  • “I’m just glad to be here, and God willing things will turn out.”
  • “You gotta play em one day at a time”
  • “Some days you win, some days you lose, some days….it rains. Think about that for a minute….”

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like this one:

“Especially with these young hitters learning that [how to take walks]… it’s an added plus in their cap.”

An MVP mixed metaphor.

"They punched me a lot," Holliday said of the celebration [after his July 18 walk-off single]. "But they were good punches."

by vico on Jul 19, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL @ "young hitters"

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Saw that this morning via Twitter

How much you wanna bet it’s for less than a week though? TBH, I’d rather have him than Dennys at this point…

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who did we call up to replace Ottavino?

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 19, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

MacLane?

Craig?

I dunno exactly what order these happened in…of course now MacLane is gone and Salas is up.

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know Craig was for Stavinoha.

I guess I am just hoping that Salas will take Ottavino’s spot (The long reliever stuff is bullcrap imo).

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 19, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

the doctors saw Ottavino today

so leeches any time now.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think they scheduled an amputation for Wednesday and a regimen of opium.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 19, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

(stuffing) eh....
Holliday laced the winner on the second 98 mph fastball he saw. He rounded first to see Jay scoring and his teammates rushing over for what’s become the Cardinals’ usual walk-off celebration — a series of uppercuts and body blows to the victorious batter.
“Yeah, they punched the (stuffing) out of me,” Holliday said. “But those are good punches.”

Still bitching to contact.

by Felonius_Monk on Jul 19, 2010 11:58 AM EDT reply actions  

just had a bizarre moment

i was watching the replay of the holliday hit. randolph said ’..and the cardinals come back from oblivion", and about two seconds later, i heard the same thing on sportscenter. heh

by zoomzoomj88 on Jul 19, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

at least they didn't go with (seed)

אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס

by chalk on Jul 19, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

you forgot...
"Yeah, they punched the (stuffing) out of me," Holliday said. "But those are good punches. and don’t forget that farmers feed us"

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on Jul 19, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   3 recs

it's farmer's fetus

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

And they have to know that it sounds like that

by saladdays on Jul 19, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

"And don't forget...

Farmers’ fetuses will grow up to become farmers who fetus."

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I probably won't be on VEB as often for a few weeks

I am moving so am pretty busy, but the real reason is my computer is crapping out on me. I’ve only had it for 14 months but it seems like something is really wrong with it. I’m going to call tech support and see if it is overheating or something (I saw a small melted looking spot on the bottom of the laptop) or perhaps I’ll just reinstall the OS (maybe Vista is deciding to finally F me over). at the least, it let me listen to the radiocast yesterday though, that was one of the most thrilling come from behind victories I can remember. Yadi finally getting a clutch hit… then next inning Jon Jay shows off his great plate discipline yet again and takes a walk, big clutch hit by Craig, and then Holliday finally pulls through with the game winner. classic.

*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 19, 2010 1:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Check the manufacturer website

for BIOS upgrades, just in case the BIOS isn’t running the fan enough.

by sdrone on Jul 19, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

My laptop sits on a Nexxtech gizmo that has two fans in it

to keep the ’puter cool. It plugs into one of the USB ports.

"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson

by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jul 19, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

we had to do the same thing for our toshiba laptop

although I found that using compressed air to get the dust out of the fans and the back of the laptop works even better than the gizmo.

youneverknow

by floodOfLove on Jul 19, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Not too long ago I opened up my laptop and pulled out a big chunk of dust that was blocking the fan. Laptop runs much cooler now.

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

i probably need to do this

i’ve had this laptop for over a year and it’s to the point where i can’t use it atop my lap because it gets too hot

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

has there been a recall?

My husband had his recalled. Mine just missed the cut. HP. Check it out.

"I told myself from the very beginning: 'If he's going to throw a shutout, then he's going to tie,'" Wainwright said. "He was not going to beat me today."

by spfldbird on Jul 19, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good luck with the move dude

We’ll be here when you get settled in!

(and so will Aaron Miles, probably)

by goodymobb on Jul 19, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Somewhat OT:

RIP Lou Brown

:(

Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 19, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Haven't gone through yesterday's threads yet, so if this has already been discussed,

you can punch the (stuffing) out of me later.

Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jul 19, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

you may run like mays

but you hit like (stuffing.)

RIP

by DanUpBaby on Jul 19, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I like the actual edited version

“you may run like mays, but you hit like his sister”.

That’s one of the few bleeps that’s actually as good as the curse.

by vivaelpujols on Jul 19, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's sad

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I say

to anyone who thinks the Cardinals can’t beat Kyle Kendrick and Joe Blanton.

Repeal The LaRussa Tax.

by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 19, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Awesome article of Pujols

written by Goold for American Way magazine.

awesome

Stupid Sexy Flanders!!!

by timmycardinals on Jul 19, 2010 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

OLD!

But seriously, people should read this if they haven’t yet. A worth repost.

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Photo comment...

No caption. Do we still need the milk carton?

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 2:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I was listening to strauss on Bernies show

And he said if the cards traded for a pitcher that hawk would go back to the pen and suppan would stay in the rotation….

I ’m not so sure I want us to trade for a starter then…..i was thinking a trade would mean the end of Suppan….

by mick311 on Jul 19, 2010 2:35 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

That was a given, I think. Hawk and Suppan are about equal as a starter

But as a reliever, Hawk’s stuff plays much better than Suppan’s would

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

true

*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 19, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

It should be Suppan DFA.......

Salas > Hawk in the ’pen.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 19, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can Salas pitch 3 innings?

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

That long reliever bullhonky was used to justify Brad Thompson's presence

even though he rarely pitched more than an inning. Salas or Boggs should both be capable of pitching 2 inning stints. There’s no need for a long reliever.

Silly humans, this world is for robots.

by azruavatar on Jul 19, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

"Bullhonky."

That is exactly what the “long reliever” philosophy is.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought it was Bullhawky?

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 19, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've never heard it pronounced as "bullhawky" before.

Perhaps it is a regional difference?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

possibly so.

I’ve never heard the “honky” part. So it must be.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jul 19, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bullhockey

Like Horsehockey, but different.

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

bull hockey is what i hear

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

We ESPECIALLY don't need one on this team

With Waino and Carp going deep often. However, for example, the Pirates are getting less than 5.5 innings from their starting pitchers per game (Cards are getting 6+, Angels lead the majors at 6.25). I suspect that it might not be a bad idea to have a guy who can go 3-4 innings out of the pen if you’re unfortunate enough to have a starting staff that’s prone to early implosions/departures (also known as “bad starting pitching”).

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also

I’d always heard it called bullpucky myself.

(Bullhonky has an entry, though it’s less popular.)

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just use bullshit.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Jul 19, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's only if you focus on those two guys though

If you add Salas or Sanchez to the mix, that changes things entirely, as both of them are better than Hawk is in the bullpen, and Hawk is a better bet as a starter than Suppan at this point.

If we add a starter and don’t leave Hawk in the rotation, I’m going to be pissed, because that’s NOT our best option.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

I’m not so certain we should do a trade at all. especially if that’s the case. but I guess this means that when Lohse makes it back, we will still be rolling out the Sup

*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

local st. louisians: how is the weather looking?

bernie said the radar is “ominous.” i will be sad if we can’t get this game in tonight.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Ominous is a pretty good description of the sky right now.

My wife claimed she saw bats flying overhead in the gloom.

I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?

by The Continental on Jul 19, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm hearing plenty of thunder now

and I live in the city (and I’m theoretically going to this game, ouch). The weather.com satellite thingy makes it look like it should be dry by game time. That plus about seven dollars might get me a beer at the game while I wait for the rain to stop.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

8....

eight dollars.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Jul 19, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

8.00 also equals bacon wrapped hot dog......

which also equals running the chance of indigestion ruining the game for you

by mick311 on Jul 19, 2010 2:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

baco wrapped hot dog

also demands to have a beer with it, so $16 it is.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Jul 19, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did say "might"

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, $6.75 will get you

a 12oz. Sam Adams.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Jul 19, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was like that here too but its clearing up..

Then again the weathermen are always wrong.
….i always wished I could tell people at my job “theres a 40% chance what im telling you is actually gonna happen or is true.”

by mick311 on Jul 19, 2010 2:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Im in Creve coeue right now and its pouring

But it looks like its almost passed and may clear up. Weather said scattered storms tonight 30% chance

by mick311 on Jul 19, 2010 2:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Looking at the radar on weather.com,

It looks like it has mostly passed. Doesn’t look like theres much more behind it, so it should be good to go.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Jul 19, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

I’m starting construction on an arc right now.

by Evilfrog on Jul 19, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any word on whether Bernie will apologize to us internet bloggers

for his comments about “giving days off” if the game tonight gets rained out?

He loves to look in hindsight, this would be an opportunity to apologize due to hindsight, lol.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Jul 19, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Izzy to 590:

auditioning for the Reds.

lol

Fire La Russa!

by guayzimi on Jul 19, 2010 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

So I guess he's cool with coming back as a set-up man...?

I can’t imagine they would give him Soria’s job unless Soria isn’t going to be with the team by July 31 (and from everything I’ve read he’s not available).

by BTown Birds fan on Jul 19, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Read the freakin' article, BTown...

"I don’t care where I pitch or what inning I pitch," he said. "It’s about pitching this year."

by BTown Birds fan on Jul 19, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

...

Fox_Sports_MW: Lineup for tonight, Lopez 3b Jay rf Pujols 1b Rasmus cf Craig rf Skip 2b molina c Hawks P ryan ss

....my quick smells like french toast...

Twitter: @mstreeter06

by mstreeter06 on Jul 19, 2010 3:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Fuck yeah Allen Craig

…but I assume he’s playing LF

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 19, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah.

TLR is trying a 2-RF alignment. If that doesn’t work, he’ll bat the pitcher 1st to get him out of the way.

by SouthsideCardsFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's the LaRussa Tax for you.

If he were a football coach, the center would face the quarterback, with his butt in the nosetackle’s face.

Repeal The LaRussa Tax.

by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 19, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's more of a "2-CF alignment," isn't it?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pulling a Derrek Lee I see.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Jul 19, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

he was ready for Boog. he was even ready for Albert.

but he didn’t expect JAIME GARCIA.

(….yes. we are joking.)

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

better than a kendry morales

all of a sudden it’s 2009

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

and the first half

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see the plan

2 right fielders and just hope nothing goes into left
it might work!

אנא טוני לא יותר ט.א.ס.ס

by chalk on Jul 19, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

...is that the shift?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's sad

I’m to the point where I judge a TLR lineup solely on whether it contains Aaron Miles or not

This is a good one!

"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles

by jd is legend on Jul 19, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's about right

Don’t they say you’re supposed to take the LD% and subtract .120 from it to find BABIP? What’s that? You’re supposed to add .120 to it?! Holy [long string of profanities redacted]

"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles

by jd is legend on Jul 19, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's Craigression

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jul 19, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Is it just me

Or does anyone read this (or even just regression) and start singing Tradition from Fiddler on the Roof?

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

same

dammit.

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oy vey

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Jul 19, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

REGRESSION!

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 20, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

...

“You’re asking me for Craigression. I hope you do understand the gravity of that request.”

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Jul 19, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wanna know what is awesome

Adam Wainwright:

2010: $4.65M
2011: $6.5M
2012: $9M club option
2013: $12M club option

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 4:04 PM EDT reply actions   5 recs

...

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 19, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yea but isnt there some other clause in there where a pretty significant bonus can kick in?

I thought I heard that being talked about earlier this year……regardless that is an awesome deal, yadi has a pretty good one too.

Pretty sad though Lohse makes twice as much as Waino

by mick311 on Jul 19, 2010 4:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

If Waino

got hit on the wrist and suffered an injury that flummoxed doctors, betraying his reputation as a durable “innings eater,” he’d make more money.

Repeal The LaRussa Tax.

by Michael_68_1999 on Jul 19, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meh, sorta
* 2012, 2013 options guaranteed with top 5 finish in 2010 or 2011 Cy Young vote
* 2012 club option increases to $10M with 2010 or 2011 Cy Young
* club must exercise 2012 and 2013 options at same time

I’m not too worried about being forced to pick up those two options if he keeps pitching like he is. And the escalation in price on the 2012 option is only a million bucks, so no biggie there (plus he’d have to win the Cy Young, which is no small feat).

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will not engage in another discussion of FIP vs. ERA.

I will not engage in another discussion of FIP vs. ERA.
I will not engage in another discussion of FIP vs. ERA.
I will not engage in another discussion of FIP vs. ERA.
I will not engage in another discussion of FIP vs. ERA.

Silly humans, this world is for robots.

by azruavatar on Jul 19, 2010 4:40 PM EDT reply actions  

hahaha

my thoughts exactly

not about the couch part, just the reference

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on Jul 19, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

ludwick to go on a rehab assignment soon

@dgoold #Cardinals OF Ludwick headed to Memphis to begin rehab assignment Tuesday. Story up shortly at C-Beat http://bit.ly/bu3qnF #stlcards

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 6:07 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

RFL!!!!

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Jul 19, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anthony or Dennys?

"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles

by jd is legend on Jul 19, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

and, lohse:

@ BJRains Kyle Lohse said he will face hitters on Wednesday and could make his first rehab start sometime next week.

http://twitter.com/BJRains/status/18943686085

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

this makes me happy/sad

sad because i know i’ll get dissapointed when hawk is put in pen, salas is brought down, and suppan keeps starting

instead of DFAing Suppan and keeping Hawk in the starting rotation

Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog

by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 19, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

But imagine if Lohse is finally 100% healthy and pitches like it’s 2008 all over again!

It would be like trading for whatever whatever yeah yeah enough.

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rolen injured

link

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

gee sorry to hear that even if he does play for a rival.

I voted for Rolen for the All Star Game. He was a great Cardinal. It doesn’t surprise me he’s hurt, he only knows one way to play the game – all out.

Does anybody have the video where he was sliding into 2nd base (to break up a double play) and took out two players at once. They fell over like bowling pins. I actually think it might have been against Cincy.

"I told myself from the very beginning: 'If he's going to throw a shutout, then he's going to tie,'" Wainwright said. "He was not going to beat me today."

by spfldbird on Jul 19, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree

i didn’t post that with any glee or animosity. It is relevant to us though, since he’s been awesome this year for our rival

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

His first-to-third in the All-Star Game was awesome

He’s not fast, but that man is a train on the basepaths.

by mojowo11 on Jul 19, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

CHHHOOOOOOOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

"Very accomplished bunter" - Rick Horton about Aaron Miles

by jd is legend on Jul 19, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

CINTRON!

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

game thread?

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on Jul 19, 2010 7:03 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon

by tehzachatak on Jul 19, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

We don't need no stinkin game thread

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson

by ducttape16 on Jul 19, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

No Joe Morgan!

"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!

by BVHeck on Jul 19, 2010 7:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Weather looks clear on TV

Is it clear for the night?

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 7:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Decisions:

Dan and Al, or ESPN’s blather?

by Lambtron on Jul 19, 2010 7:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Did someone say Zeppelin?

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson

by ducttape16 on Jul 19, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nomah, Singleton, and Random PxP

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

FESPN, all this sunshine is your fault.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Jul 19, 2010 7:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Ball caught the seam...

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 19, 2010 7:11 PM EDT reply actions  

That's what she said

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson

by ducttape16 on Jul 19, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Game thread

Here

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on Jul 19, 2010 7:13 PM EDT reply actions  

remind me why Brendan Ryan is worth holding onto…

by dbish on Jul 19, 2010 8:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Excellent defense, and a better bat than the surface numbers indicate.

He’s been hitting the ball much better as of late, even if it has been right at people.

by Voxx on Jul 19, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

MLBPA rules require the doghouse to be occupied at all times.

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.

by TBender on Jul 20, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

have you not seen his range at shortstop??

*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 20, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

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