Leadoff Options
So I'm new here. Well not really. I have been reading all the posts on here for the past few months. But this is my first post. I love rumors and lineup talk. So I would love some feedback for discussion because I am tired of talking to myself about what the Cards should do. Thanks.
After the break we will hopefully have a healthy lineup of:
Lopez
Holliday
Pujols
Ludwick
Rasmus
Freese
Molina
Ryan
That is a good lineup (Though TLR might not ever put it on the field). I personally don't want to see shumaker out there everyday anymore, and i would rather have lopez further down in the lineup. Some viable options that i hav conjured up(no real sources).
Ludwick will not be a Cardinal forever due to free agency in the forseeable future. A trade with the royals could look like this: Ludwick for Dejesus and a bullpen arm(Farnsworth).
Making a lineup of:
Dejesus
Holliday/Rasmus
Pujols
Holliday/Rasmus
Freese
Lopez
Molina
Ryan
Or with the Nationals (Ludwick for Morgan and Capps).
In both situations you gain a leadoff man and an outfielder who can play all three outfield positions. And We still have shumaker off the bench. In other situations we could keep Ludwick and try to deal Schumaker or ryan for leadoff/MIF help. Just throwing names out there (not all leadoff guys, not all attainable for only skip or ryan), Chone Figgins, Jhonny Peralta, Cristian Guzman, Stephen Drew, Ryan Theriot, Mike Fonetnot, Edgar Renaria, Mark Derosa, and there are probably obvious one that i missed.
Let me here some feedback please.
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I'd like Dejesus
but not morgan. If we’re going to trade Luddy, I’d rather see a bat with some pop out in RF (since LF and CF are spoken for for the foreseeable future). Unfortunately, I don’t see the Royals wasting one of their valuable trade chips on a win-now-type player like Luddy (aging, up-for-free agency after next year).
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
True
I was thinking salary relief in the dejesus trade for the royals. He is owed 6mil next year. Maybe if we threw in one of either craig or jay. What about Daryl Jones? Does he have any trade value if in a package for someone?
by rumors on Jul 13, 2010 12:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
it's been discussed before, and i don't believe daryl jones has any value to anyone
but us right now. He had a big 2008, but did not follow up with much of anything. he’s really only top 10 to us because we have little else in our system. Here’s a fangraphs writeup of jones before this season (#3). He has followed a poor 09 in AA up with a .673 OPS there this year, so I doubt the Royals would want much to do with him at this point.
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
on that fangraphs write-up
check out the MLB ETA: late 2010… whoops
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
The Royals are interested in players that put up .600 OPS's in the big leagues
So a .673 OPS in AA might be enticing…
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Farnsworth?
no thanks, we already have Motte. I get the feeling that teams would try to rip us off for Ludwick because of his shaky history (2008 his only truly amazing year, past injuries, and injured this season). I think we would be best served to keep him.
I still like Lopez leading off, I think he can up his OBP in the second half, unless he’s not the player of recent years. I’m not sure how to alleviate this, but I’d sure like to have a good second baseman. I just don’t really see many good options for this season.
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2010 12:40 AM EDT reply actions
i think farnsworth only hits low to mid 90s anymore
i saw him pitch back in April and it was all 91mph and straight. oh, and suck.
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
ok
so like a horrible version of Motte, no thanks!
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 13, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
why would the royals want ludwick?
if they’re trading dejesus, they clearly know they aren’t close to contending
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
i was thinking salary relief.
Dejesus makes more than ludwick. And I’m not sure but I was under the impression farnsworth was overpaid. That’s why I threw him in there.
And if your the royals you could look forward to next season (when they probably won’t be contending still. They could get better prospects for luddy than dejesus.
by rumors on Jul 13, 2010 9:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't want
Theriot (.288 wOBA and .631 OPS) or Renteria (.325 wOBA and .711 OPS). They’ve been (somewhat) lucky to get what they’ve gotten to this point (a .315 and .350 BABIP, respectively). ZiPS doesn’t predict anything good going forward for the two either.
Peralta is ok, featuring a .312 wOBA and .709 OPS based on a .293 BABIP – I don’t want him because I don’t want more parallels drawn to the ‘06 season (adding his DP mate, Belliard, worked! hey everyone!). We’re far better than that team, damn it!
Stephen Drew is having a slightly lucky season too (.326 BABIP) and what he has to show for it is a .764 OPS. He’s shown decent OBP (.346) this season, and it’s the best over a full ML season in his young career. But if we’re looking for leadoff help, though Drew is quick, I don’t think he’s the right guy for us.
I fear any move we make will be for a “personality” type guy, a la Suppan or Miles. Or (God forbid) Eckstein (see above comment about ’06).
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
i still don't get why the diamondbacks would trade Drew
i would be pissed if i were the Dbacks…. Drew is one of my favorite non-Cards players
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 13, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
What about Figgins?
He has not been good so far this year but I believe he will turn it around in the second half. What would it take to get him from the M’s?
by rumors on Jul 13, 2010 9:59 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Too Much Money, not enough prospects...
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I would love to see the Cards take a shot at Mike Aviles.
"When I gave up a grand slam to Pete LaCock," Bob Gibson said later, "I knew it was time to quit."
by The Classical on Jul 13, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
What would it take to get Aviles?
A couple years ago he was a top prospect. He is young cheap and controllable.
by rumors on Jul 13, 2010 10:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Aviles sucks
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 13, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Aviles doesn't suck
He’s probably only a modest upgrade over Skip/Boog/Lopez, but he doesn’t suck. He was hurt in 09.
i don't know
he has a .311 wOBA right now aided a .341 BABIP…. his OBP is .332… and his OPS is .714
maybe not “suck” but he’s not even league average – his defense seems average too (10.6 according to FG, but -1.7 past two years)
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jul 14, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
B-R has him worth 3.7 WAR in 2008 as a rookie
just saying….
From the limited amount I’ve seen him, I’d say he’s average-ish on D, and his true talent is probably somewhere between where he is now and his 2008 line. (B-R has him @ 0.7 WAR so far this season in 220 PA.) So call him a 2-2.5 win player, maybe 3 if he has a good year. The Royals talk radio people like him, but then again look at their other options….
Mike Aviles is a right handed Skip Schumaker.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Pretty much
Career .321 wOBA with a .332 BABIP. He’s probably a better defender though, coming up as a shortstop. Certainly not someone I would trade actual talent for.
by vivaelpujols on Jul 15, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
it kills me to say this
but I think Lopez should stay at lead-off. Not for our sake, but for HIS. Among the issues I have with floppy is I don’t think he is an ‘intelligent’ hitter (fewer and fewer MLB players are these days) but he is definitely a stick. And, given Colby’s maturing, and Luddy coming back soon, I would sacrifice Lopez’ middle of the order RBI potential for the sake of encouraging him to dial in (mentally). Thus, keep him at lead-off, where the pressure to guard the dish and swing at good pitches only will be highest.
As for trading Luddy: no. He’s like the proverbial 1994 pick-up truck, that is, more valuable to keep than what we could get for him.
and how often to leadoff hitters actually lead off an inning?
what like once or twice a game?
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Will we make any deals before the deadline?
by rumors on Jul 13, 2010 8:24 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Will we make any deals before the deadline?
by rumors on Jul 13, 2010 8:24 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Will we make any deals before the deadline?
by rumors on Jul 13, 2010 8:24 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
maybe.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jul 19, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry.
That wasn’t supposed to be posted 3 times.
by rumors on Jul 13, 2010 8:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Here's an angle you didn't cover:
I’m not a fan of dealing Ludwick, as a I think he’s a very good player, but if you’re dealing him, why not just go out and get the best SS/2B/SP that he can bring back and then put Jon Jay in RF and let him lead off? He’s got good speed, he’s good defensively, and he’s shown the ability to take a walk in the minors.
Another low cost option would Jamey Carroll, who’s a better option than Mike Aviles or any of the guys you listed and can play anywhere on the infield. He’s a +7 run second baseman for his career and has a .391 OBP this season. Basically a guy that the Dodgers can’t use right now who’s having a decent year. Wouldn’t cost much to get at all, in fact, if they don’t find a suitor for him they might just DFA him and we could get him for free.
Christian Guzman would be interesting, since we could just pay the rest of his deal and not give up any prospects. He’s certainly better than what we have right now, and would surely waive his NTC to come to the Cardinals — but he’s not going to lead off. For sure.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2010 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
i like that a lot.
Not that tlr would ever start jay every day. Could ludwick bring in a pitcher from the nationals and guzman? Idk. But that would have to be a smart trade for us.
by rumors on Jul 14, 2010 9:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

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