Cardinals Sign Randy Winn
by DanUpBaby on Jun 5, 2010 2:09 PM EDT
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PrintBack in the days when the Matt Holliday signing was an open question a cheap, defensive-minded platoon involving Randy Winn was one of a number of unpalatable solutions, though it paled in my estimation next to the Jack Cust/Allen Craig Defensive Nightmare Platoon. Now the erstwhile Devil Ray all-star and managerial trading partner is the Cardinals' new fourth outfielder:
The St. Louis Cardinals signed outfielder Randy Winn, who was designated for assignment by the New York Yankees late last month, and the outfielder is expected to join the team today at Busch Stadium, a club official confirmed this morning to The Post-Dispatch.
Will be active for the game and wear No. 44.
To make room on the active roster the team optioned Jon Jay to Class AAA Memphis. The Cardinals made room on the 40-man roster for Winn by place Kyle Lohse on the 60-day disabled list.
Perhaps the most interesting thing about this move is the Cardinals have actually used the 60-day disabled list, something they've occasionally seemed reluctant to do. The optimistic Lohse timeline has always been two months, so this isn't quite news, but it does make his late-season comeback seem that much more remote.
This is bad timing—we're still dealing with the Aaron Miles move, and this newly enfeebled bench is not going to be a lot of fun to watch. While Jay hasn't yet had more than a successful month in AAA, the case for needing to play every day is harder to make for him than it was for fellow bench outcasts Tyler Greene, Allen Craig, and Joe Mather. Jay is 25, his upside is defensive-minded fourth outfielder, and the thing that makes him a less-than-perfect fit on the Cardinals—his left-handedness—isn't something he can change.
Which is not to say that Winn won't make the Cardinals infinitesimally better in 2010. He's an excellent defensive outfielder who as recently as two years ago was also a fine hitter in the Skip Schumaker mold, and as a switch-hitter he's a more conventional backup for Colby Rasmus (who did just homer off a left-hander last night.) He was off to a poor start with the Yankees, but it's not at all clear that he's done. I'd rather have Jay up, as a matter of principle, but used judiciously Winn could be a helpful change of pace, which is more than can be said for the Cardinals' last bench move.
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so it's true...
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I don't understand this move at all
Could somebody explain to me why the Cardinals would do this? Seems like it’s zero sum.
winn has some odd defensive numbers
UZR liked him until 2009, CHONE’s RZR (that might be the wrong acronym) was indifferent until 2009, which is when it loved him (32 runs.) My optimistic guess is that the Cardinals’ internal metrics are fond of him and Tony wanted a right-handed backup outfielder who wasn’t so chair-like.
So he's good defensively -- so is Jon Jay, who's probably much BETTER defensively by RZR
You don’t think he’s washed up? His 2009 with the bat tells a different story (.302 wOBA, which is awful for a corner outfielder), and he got dumped by a team that didn’t have any corner outfielders that didn’t completely suck (Giants) or completely unproven career minor leaguers.
Not that Brian Sabean is a great judge of talent, but it says something when you dump a guy who’s been productive for you to go with a bunch of complete unknowns and a guy coming off of wrist surgery that didn’t hit much after the break in 2009 (DeRosa).
I hate this move, mostly because he’s redundant to players we already have (Jay, Craig, Stavinoha), and the fact that I know that Tony will put him in CF, where he’s not good defensively, against just about every lefty we face, and will also platoon him with Ludwick on occasion. He’s just another veteran that allows Tony to make stupid double-switches. It also sucks because he replaces Jay, who’s played well and has real ability, while leaving Miles on the bench to do nothing except refill the sunflower seeds and sweep the dugout (which is all he SHOULD be doing).
Did Aaron need someone to talk to? Because now we have two washed up switch hitters on the bench that shouldn’t play.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
No offense, Dan.
But this post reads like Al trying to rationalize the latest stupid decision made by Lou Piniella or Jim Hendry. It’s a pretty indefensible signing if you ask me — other than “veteran presence” he doesn’t bring anything to the table worth paying for that we couldn’t get from someone else?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
that's kind of how i feel about it
it doesn’t make a significant difference in the grand scheme of the standings at the end of the season, but it’s more a matter of principle that we’re still going after the veteran-y intangible shit over actual production.
and was randy winn outright released or simply DFA’d? actuall giving something up for winn, no matter how insignificant makes this a lot worse
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
no offense, but you sound like al hrabosky
neat trick, man.
Jon Jay’s MLEs over the course of his career, at their best, are almost indistinguishable from the one year in which Randy Winn was done—.264/.315/.362 in Memphis last year. I think you’re overvaluing young, in-house players, and not paying enough attention to the rest of Winn’s career.
We never overvalue in house young players around here.
by Evilfrog on Jun 5, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I just got done watching a cartoon with my son
where a poisonous frog made himself king because nobody could touch him. Turned out he just needed a hug, because he had never gotten on before…do you need a hug, Evilfrog?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I'd rather be King
If it’s all the same to you.
by Evilfrog on Jun 5, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
winnar
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 5, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course we do.
But, I haven’t seen much other than clear-headed and objective valuations of our farmhand bench candidates when comparing them to the washed up veteran jobbers we’ve brought in to be overused by TLR.
Miles is not as good defensively as any of our eternal options and he might be as good with the bat if he has a career year.
Jon Jay is better defensively than any outfielder on our 40-man and perhaps the whole organization. He had a tremendous April in Memphis .324 as a Cardinal. What is more, he improved in his approach at the plate. I saw his first hit in person and watched him in Chicago on Sunday. He was adapting to MLB pitching surprisingly well.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 5, 2010 3:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
wOBA of. 324
I don’t know where that disappeared to…
I think a .324 wOBA from Winn is unlikely.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 5, 2010 3:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
um,
Jon Jay is better defensively than any outfielder on our 40-man
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
We've met
and Jay is better, IMO.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 5, 2010 3:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
either you think jay
is a phenomenal outfielder or you haven’t watched colby play the field
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I tend to agree with bgh
Jay’s defense tends to be under rated IMO. He is as good if not better than Colby defensively… mostly because of his speed and ability to track down balls. I think Jay’s arm used to be considered less valuable than Rasmus’, but then Rasmus has yet to really show his arm is that much better.
you guys are crazy
colby is probably the best defensive CFer in baseball and that’s all i’m gonna say about that
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
You are correct.
But, Colby being one of the best CFers in baseball doesn’t mean that Jay couldn’t be, as well, if he played there full-time. (I am not saying he should play CF over Colby.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 5, 2010 3:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
what about RFL?
has seemed pretty solid to me thus far
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Luddy is a pretty good RFer.
But he has nowhere near the range of Jay or Colby. Colby and Jay are top tier defenders.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 5, 2010 4:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'll admit you've seen more of Jay than I have
but I haven’t seen any balls get by ludwick where I said: “a better OF would have gotten that”
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
i'm curious about this talk of jay's speed
i haven’t seen it. he’s certainly not as fast as colby – agree or disagree?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'm still a little leery
Jay was drafted, as I recall, as kind of an outfield tweener, and while his minor league numbers are better than Rasmus’s—+16 and +19 (the +19 was between left and center), compared to +10 and +10—we also have a season of Rasmus being outstanding at the major league level to go on.
I think Jay is that good,
and I think Colby is excellent. The first series I saw Colby in the minors, he didn’t hit at all. But, his D was incredible (including his arm). His D is still incredible even if his throws haven’t been. I can’t criticize Jay in the field in any way.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 5, 2010 3:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The only advantage that I have seen in the field where Jay is better than Colby
Is that he gets into position to make his throws better. Colby’s biggest problem is that he doesn’t always look like he knows what he’s going to do next after he gets to the ball.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 5, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Jay
has like a .380 BABIP and hasn’t taken a walk yet.
I too have been very impressed with him, but let’s not pretend he’s suddenly likely to become a good player going forward. He’s a great glove attached to a marginal bat and probably a 4th OF type. I kinda agree that he’s “earnt” his playing time in the majors, and I’d have been happy with him remaining with the team, but Winn’s pretty much the same player albeit with a longer track record of MLB success and an ability to switch hit.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree
i’m just as comfortable with winn, but the fact he switch hits sways me his way as far as giving colby a breather now and then. also, jay could add some value to a trade – he didn’t embarrass himself in the bigs, and if he does well at memphis he could help us acquire someone. i think we have enough jays in the system.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Very disingenuous fourstick
last year’s “.302 wOBA” came with a BABIP lower than his career average, a 1.4% HR/FB rate (career = 8%), and a 22% LD rate. Sounds like he got a bit unlucky to me.
AND he still put up 1.6 WAR.
Sabean let him go because he has absolutely no f’ing clue about any sort of useful statistical analysis, variance or ball-in-play info.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i'm not sure that winn isn't better than aaron rowand
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i think he probably is
they dumped him because he had a very mediocre offensive year in 2009, and i don’t think san fran value defense in any way (hence they dumped Fred Lewis, who is actually another average outfielder, for nothing, and play guys like Renteria, Rowand and DeRosa, who aren’t very good in the field any more).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 6, 2010 5:38 AM EDT up reply actions
The Winn and Miles moves
means one thing. Tony finally has pictures on JMo. I expect to see Looper in the rotation before the month is out.
sadly, i do too
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
i thought this the moment Lohse went down
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Jun 5, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Looper would be a retrograde step
I didn’t mind the idea of picking him up over the winter if we had absolutely NO money but he was abysmal last year and I think the younger guys have acquitted themselves well. I don’t think he’s any better than Walters now and lefties absolutely KILL him. I think other teams would just stuff their lineup with lefties and destroy him, tbh.
He wouldn’t be a bad ROOGY to have in someone’s bullpen, but our 4 righties (and possibly Hawksworth and Salas too) are all better.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 6, 2010 5:40 AM EDT up reply actions
tweet per BJRains... our best 3 players are hitting together!
BJRains Randy Winn taking his first round of batting practice at Busch Stadium….in a hitting group with Nick Stavinoha and Aaron Miles.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
Clearly they are trying to make Winn look good in his first BP with the BotB.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
har har
but used judiciously Winn could be a helpful change of pace
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
heh. well spotted
that’s not the sort of thing i’d ever have notice (and I imagine at least 50% of people even reading this post still won’t know what you’re on about!)
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
if they are in game threads they will
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Awesome
We’ve now filled our bench with “veteran presence”. Too bad neither of those “presence” guys can fucking play baseball anymore.
What’s next, convincing Junior Griffey to come out of retirement and platoon with Holliday in LF? Seems like the only possible move, right?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I wonder if Bonds can still OPS around 1.000 in a platoon with Holliday?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Relax...
It’s a lateral move at worst. Winn is good defensively and probably equal to Jay offensively. Meanwhile this frees up Jay for a trade and lets him play. I would’ve preferred shipping out Stavinoha, but this really isn’t a big deal…
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
Maybe it's a hoax.
maybe they need a “throw in” player for some trade, not that we don’t have one already.
I don’t exactly get what the thinking is on this deal.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
Henley is still on the DL
so not Henley. Rapaport is having an excellent season thus far, if I remember correctly (reminds me of a Skippy type player), so he may be in the mix for a trade also. I do agree that a trade may be coming though. We do need another starter, as I’m not confident in Walters to replace Lohse or to be back-up any additional injuries to an injury prone staff. Ottavino is not enough of a back-up IMO. Moar starters!
I forgot he was DLed. Thanks for clarifying.
Oh, there’s totally a trade coming. They moved Lohse and signed Winn on the same day?
Regression, bitches.
Craig and Daryl Jones seem like the only ones in the Cardinals' stable of fourth outfielders
with much trade value—I keep thinking Jones is out of here the minute his year-to-date stats look half-decent.
I aggree wholeheartedly on DJ Tools.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 5, 2010 3:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i'm honestly not sure he's worth that much right now to be dealt for something on his own
i think he needs to be part of a package to actually bring back anything reasonable. I just don’t think a lot of teams are going to put a lot of stock in a guy who’s had precisely one good season in the minors, which was two years ago, and who profiles to be possibly as good as Jon Jay, a 4th outfielder who likely has no value anyhow.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Craig might be on his way out
he’s sort of fitting into the mould of players of yesteryear who don’t really seem to have been given a fair crack of the whip at MLB level for whatever reason, despite their minor league performance, and then get swiftly moved out of town for something else (riding on the coattails of guys like Perez, perhaps even Wallace).
I think he could bring back something meaningful from a team that needs an OFer, although I really can’t think of a plausible trade/trade partner. My fear is that he ends up going to a non-contending team with a weak outfield for a mediocre rental SP. I could see them shifting him for someone in the Jon Garland mould (although not Garland himself, as the Pads are in a pennant race).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
come on guys, give the Winn a chance.
yeah, this doesn’t make complete sense, but there is the potential for Winn to revitalize his career as a bench player. He gives LaRussa more flexibility, which will make Tony happy. The guy is aging, but his D should be decent enough for a bench role. He’ll be out of the AL East and in the NL Central, which should help his bat. I say give it at least a month and see what he has in the tank. Let Greene, Craig, and Jay get some ABs in AAA and help get them into the PCL playoff picture. If Winn fails, he was cheap and we drop him and bring Jay etc. back up. I say give it a chance. This isn’t as bad as having Miles on the bench IMO.
plus
LaRussa has the distinct ability to put bench players into situations where they can succeed. This could be a great combination- LaRussa and Winn- and could be the best situation for Winn.
So the "last roster spot"
now consists of Nick Stavinoha, Aaron Miles and Randy Winn.
I’m not against Winn in isolation but I’m against composing a bench of Winn, Miles, Stavinoha, LaRue and one of our middle infielders. That’s really awful roster management by Mozeliak.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
by azruavatar on Jun 5, 2010 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
exactly...
and LaRue is ok too, as is the troika of Lopez, Skip, and Ryan.
The problem comes down to two guys.
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
my favorite moment in yesterday's press conference
was when Tony was talking about how great his three infielders were playing, and talked about how great a problem it was to have. Then, as an afterthought, “and Aaron, too—” Even Tony doesn’t know what purpose he serves.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 5, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's hilarious.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 5, 2010 3:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah
as was said in the other thread (before this was up) – the real crime is Miles over Greene and Stav over Craig. If our only decent hitter (Craig) is there to be the primary PH, and our best defender (Greene) is there for double switches in the infield, we don’t have the concern about Winn/Jay as they’re basically interchangeable (and Winn gives us one more option to throw out vs a LOOGY in late inning PH situations, and as a RH CF on the occasional colby day off).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
you think the bench is bad?
just wait until a getaway day. la rue behind the dish, miles at SS, Stavy in LF and Winn in CF. gonna be a joy to watch.
yessir
we don’t give any of our young guys much of a chance, wasting their options for guys like miles & winn? someone please try to tell me how this makes sense.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Aaron Miles, Tony? Really?
not sure optioning jay was really wasting anything
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
using up options on guys like jay and craig is inevitable
and it doesn’t really hurt them much either. If they’re not regulars on an MLB roster in the next 3 years, they’re not going to be especially good players anyhow.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 6, 2010 5:41 AM EDT up reply actions
He's played 5600+ innings in CF and has a +1.4 UZR/150 for his career. (and his numbers are better in the corners, no surprise)
It’s tough to tell how much age-related decline there’s been given that he hasn’t played much CF in the last couple of years.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 5, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
To me,
the fact that managers stopped playing him there us concerning.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 5, 2010 3:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that's true actually
although his corner numbers have been fine in recent years (actually good in 08 and 09). I imagine he’s better than Ludwick, though maybe not by much.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
wasn't it san fran and yanks?
there could be reasons other than he sucked that they didn’t put him in center.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
like what?
Neither team has a very good centre fielder. I’m not aware of any weird caroms or big spaces in either field, although I suppose there is triples alley in san fran. The OF in Yankee Stadium is quite small IIRC.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 6, 2010 5:42 AM EDT up reply actions
well, san fran is paying rowand a lot of money
he’s gonna play center. and the yanks have granderson. so i’m just saying that there was no room for him to play center. i think he was better than rowand, but money talks.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Winn over Jay isn't the problem, the problems are Miles over Greene (or Gotay) and Stav over Craig.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 5, 2010 3:21 PM EDT reply actions
Beg to differ
Winn over Jay is problem as well. A player like Jay is a classic 4th outfielder who can solidly man all 3 outfield position, run, and handles the bat well. He just doesn’t hit for enough power to start at a corner OF spot and we have Colby in CF. TLR crying for Winn says he is uncomfortable using Jay as a bench OF due to his inexperience in the MLB. Which deprives Jay of experience going forward. Winn will be 36 in 4 days. He’s toast as a major league player. This is his last gasp. Jay is 25. He has no great trade value. His value is on the Cards MLB bench. By removing Jay from the MLB roster, Tony deprives Jay of experience that will add value to his roll as a bench player going forward. In 2011 will Tony again cry for a veteran outfielder because Jay lacks the experience? This move also adds to a crunch on the 40 man roster needlessly. If Tony was adamant about calming his vet phobia, JMo should have dug in heals and refused to add a vet until near the trading deadline. Boat fulls of Randy Winn types are available in August. Jon Jay could have gotten several more months of MLB experience and then Tony could have been given his damn security blanket.
seems like a lot of assumptions...
I don’t know that TLR was “crying” for Winn. I don’t think there’s much value to gaining bench “experience” so I don’t think Jay or the Cards have really lost anything. If Winn is “toast,” as you say, it will be simple enough to cut him and bring back Jay or whoever. There’s no real crunch to the 40 man that can’t be easily rectified by adjusting the deadwood.
I’m fine with Winn’s switch-hitting, OF versatility, and cheap cost. If he really is “toast” (which remains to be seen), then I’ll be fine with cutting him.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 5, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Winn the switch-hitter
>>I don’t know that TLR was "crying" for Winn.<<
Then it must be Fredbird who was responsible for Randy Winn being on the Cardinals 25 man roster. Deductive reasoning is an acceptable scientific approach. TLR has a proven modus operandi. The guy jones for his vets. No one can argue that point. It’s cool if you want to argue that Winn adds some vague something. But no other person in authority with Cardinal nation would have grabbed Winn after being DFA’ed by NYY when Jay was hitting 302 with a 744 OPS while playing excellent defense compared to Winn’s 213 BA and 595 OPS in 2010.
As to switch hitting, Winn is hitting 000 in 2010 left handed—0 for 11 with 4 Ks. Tony loves small sample sizes so he must be impressed with that one.
I dunno how you can put this one on TLR, to be honest
and I am one of TLR’s BIGGEST critics over the Miles situation, which there is direct evidence he lobbied for.
In this case, I dunno, it looks like Mo’s move to me. TLR’s not said anything about wanting Winn and it seems like it all took place very quickly after the Yankees made the roster move. I don’t see TLR’s hand in this at all, except maybe to sanction the move after Mo looked into making it.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
how i see it
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
But no other person in authority with Cardinal nation would have grabbed Winn after being DFA’ed by NYY when Jay was hitting 302 with a 744 OPS while playing excellent defense compared to Winn’s 213 BA and 595 OPS in 2010.
perhaps we’re fortunate in that there are one or two people in the front office who are not convinced by the absolute truth offered by sample sizes of fewer than 100 plate appearances?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
From your post, DanUp, it appears you believe Winn is a right-handed hitter
but as fourstick obliquely points out, Randy’s a switch-hitter.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jun 5, 2010 3:24 PM EDT reply actions
he's actually better from the left side, too
which slightly negates our argument over his use as an occasional stand-in for colby in CF…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting...
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/cardinals-are-glad-garcia-got-lost-in-translation/
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
His name is Winn.
How could we possible lose with this deal?
by notmorganfreeman on Jun 5, 2010 3:58 PM EDT reply actions
Ryan scratched late
due to groin strain.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 5, 2010 4:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
2 cents
winn over jay or craig or greene is not beneficial long or short term
when have the birds signed one of these guys (aka winn) and actually cut him during the season?
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
my 2 cents
this move makes little to no sense. we already have 4 of’s on the roster (stav, holliday, lud, raz), and the backups hardly play at all. i could understand if winn was a utility guy (like spiezio), but i don’t get this.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Aaron Miles, Tony? Really?
we have five on the roster
you forgot jon jay, who winn effectively replaces.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 5, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Winn v. Jay et al
Before looking through Winn’s stats over the past couple years, I hadn’t realized just how much slippage had occurred from his being a predictable .300 hitter with speed and occasional pop. I, too, have been really enjoying John Jay’s recent stint in STL, and I like Stav a lot too (I’m sure Joey Bombs has more upside but has been underperforming comparatively). I agree with most everyone here in that I’d rather see our homegrown talent grow WITH the big club NOW…as opposed and compared to moves in preparation for post season 40 man rosters. Hard to argue with Tony, though, ain’t it!
i can't understand why people like stavinoha
i mean, I don’t dislike him but he’s clearly pretty mediocre. It just shows that a couple of timely hits will cover a multitude of sins in many fans eyes. His linedrive and walkrates have been lower than Adam Wainwright in the major leagues – and this is a guy who is a poor fielder in an outfield corner.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 6, 2010 5:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Hate it!
That bench was in need of someone who might blossom to something beyond mediocrity. Jay showed signs, Greene might have. Now noone will or we’ll at least wait a couple of months before someone gets a chance. Winn, Miles Stainoha and LaRue are as unexciting as it gets. I do have to think that it’s Tony’s design and that, with the team competing again, Mo doesn’t have much grounds to deny him his obsessions.
lopex, lugo, craig, mather, larue
that looked like the bench coming out of spring training, and then it all went to hell starting with dumping lugo (i understand he wanted an opportunity for more playing time, and we were cool about it, but that bench looked like such an upgrade over our biggest weakness last year, and now we are back to square one). but as far as winn/jay, i don’t mind this so much. not really much difference, except winn is a switch-hitter.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think that's the most ludicrous thing about the Miles acquisition
Lugo, who was competent last year and who can at least still hit a bit even if he’s a liability in the field, was dumped for basically absolutely nothing (as far as I can see) just over a month ago….
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 6, 2010 5:45 AM EDT up reply actions
yep
There was a lot of talk of redundancy and the like with Lugo, but he at least can contribute. If you’re planning on carrying 4 MI’s in June, keep Lugo around and remove that temptation for Miles, whose skills can probably be covered by the bullpen.
Also, I like the Winn signing. I know some say there’s not a ton of value getting Jay, Craig, ect. more playing time and AB’s in Memphis, but I feel like we need to be assessing what we have in preparation for a (possible) hole in right next year or a trade. Winn is fine for a 4th OF type.
This is a good signing
I missed this when it happened and just notice looking at a boxscore he was on the Cards. I think this is th etyp eo frole player that coul dreally improve the Cards
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