One-run games: the mark of a true champion
by DanUpBaby on Jun 29, 2010 5:32 AM EDT
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Just when I call a bottom on regular-season heartbreak, Dan Haren has to go and hit a home run. Don't get me wrong—with that home run Haren's now hitting .435/.435/.630, worth well more than a win compared to the replacement level pitcher. (Cliff Lee doesn't even hit for himself—I wonder if Dan Haren's agent has put this into his trading deadline Power Point presentation?) But it doesn't really make me feel any better to know that I'm less surprised than I would have been had another heartbreakingly traded star pitcher taken our ace-in-residence out of Busch Stadium.
What helps is that after everything—after that home run, and Randy Winn's Jose Canseco experience—the Cardinals didn't lose this game. There's nothing to take from the way they won, except for the brief and not-particularly-strong conviction, doomed to abandonment the next time Randy Winn has a home run bounce out of his glove, that every team has its share of terrible moments, and they even out, though not always in the same game, or with that kind of passion-play regularity.
With that in mind—with nothing at all to expound upon from this game in particular—I have prepared a list of other games that could have left me feeling this giddy, had things transpired just a little differently.
June 27, 2010: Royals 10, Cardinals 3. Okay, this is a bad place to start. Short of Jaime Garcia not walking batters with two outs, there's no way for the Cardinals to win this game. It was just too awful. And that's what surprises me most about the idea that the Great Teams win the close ones, and the overrated teams just win blowouts. That is, I guess, what surprised me when I realized, upon first reading that idea in one Bill James book or another, that I was surprised by it.
Watch this game. The Cardinals could not win this game. Bruce Chen could have slipped on a banana peel while fielding a ground ball and the Cardinals still couldn't have won this game, whereas a fairly accurate reproduction of last night's ninth inning, a 6-5 squeaker, could be performed by eighteen circus clowns emerging from a humorously small car labelled "Team Bus." The good teams make this happen more often. (Certainly more often than the Royals.)
April 17, 2010: Mets 2, Cardinals 1. Here are some bad pitchers the Cardinals failed to hit in their 20 inning heartbreaker against the Mets: Ryota "Rocketboy" Igarashi, who I appear to have been wrong about; Fernando Nieve; Raul Valdes, a 32 year-old rookie. They could have hit any of those guys, of course, but the Mets failed to hit Felipe Lopez, so that's a little too general to work for me.
More specifically: Joe Mather could have gotten a pop-up or a groundout instead of those two sacrifice flies with his medium-ball high and outside. I'm not even asking him to get ahead of a single hitter, or hit something consequential enough to get us some pitchers-hitting jokes for a week on ESPN. Just take the outs he got—sacrifice bunt (seriously, Jerry Manuel? You're going to let that be the first out Joe Mather ever gets?), sac fly, groundout, sac fly, short fly, foul out—and rearrange them.
The Cardinals are 13-14 in one run games and 15-7 in blowouts. Winning and losing one run games isn't all luck, as I might have believed in my revolutionary youth, but if I had to pick a direction for these splits to go in, this would still be the one. (The Pirates are 12-12 in one run games and 2-22 in blowouts, which is pretty awesome.)
The 2004 World Series: I've thought about this one a lot—it was my favorite team, and my least favorite series—and the only way I can think about making this one right is... okay, so Pedro Martinez has been reading about the 1904 World Series that wasn't, celebrating its hundredth not-anniversary that year, and he likes the cut of John McGraw's jib. McGraw, like AL fans of the 21st century, was convinced that his National League champs were already champs of the "only real major league", and decided against holding the second annual World's Series.
So Pedro announces, in his delightfully patchy English, that the Boston Red Sox will not be holding the World Series that year, or even the World's Series, and that Jimmy Fallon will instead be appearing in the sequel to Taxi. The Yankees offer to play the Cardinals in a consolation American League Championship Series, but Walt Jocketty declines.
Meanwhile, baseball fans everywhere think to themselves: These Cardinals won 105 games! Surely they can put up a challenge against an arguably inferior Boston squad! We can't just expect they'd be swept, and certainly not in a humiliating, soul-crushing way. The Cardinals are named champions by sabermetric fiat, and I don't spend November, 2004 in my room, listening to the All-American Rejects song from MVP Baseball 2003.
October 26, 1985: Royals 2, Cardinals 1. Okay, so Don Denkinger makes his call, and then he says—"Hey, Jack Clark—gotcha!" Twenty-five years later, Jack Clark, one of the most engaging personalities in St. Louis, famous for his intoxicating mix of Scully-esque measurement and Buckian lyricism, is still at his playing weight of 175, and Whitey Herzog is going on thirty years as manager of the Cardinals, the first team to ever outfit a brand new, retro-styled stadium with astroturf.
In fact, this might be the best way for any guilt-stricken umpire to get back into the press's good graces. Right now Jim Joyce will always be famous as the guy who screwed up a perfect game call. Tomorrow, Jim Joyce could be famous as the guy who called up Armando Galarraga and said, "You should have seen your face!"
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Haren and Lee
Would we give up Shelby Miller for either of these guys? Putting money aside, I’d do that in a heartbeat if we could sign Lee to an extension. These kind of pitchers are hard to find. I’d like to have Carp/Waino and either of these guys in a rotation for 2-3 years. We have a chance to dominate division for several years, so I would do this if we could. I’m guessing the price for these guys has gone down. Big money teams aren’t likely to be in the bidding wars this summer.
I’m all about pitching as long as we have Pujols and Holliday, I’d load up on pitching and try to win divisions by outpitching the other guys.
Just win
I am souring on Shelby Miller
If you’re having problems getting outs in Low-A — Quad Cities poor defense aside — how will you do in the Texas League?
This is perhaps the only time I might advocate trading a prospect for a Proven Veteran.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 29, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Shelby Miller isn't really pitching in QC.
They have him on a strict pitch count and working on very specific outings each time. It’s more like a bullpen session against the opposition.
I don’t think you can read much into his outings this season unless you are watching them live and just looking at his stuff.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Not to mention his sterling K and BB rates,
despite working on developing pitches, etc.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This is what stat people have spent the past 7 years trying to figure out
Shelby Miller is not having problems getting outs in Low-A, his defense is. If you are striking out 13.98 per 9 while walking 3.45 per 9, you are dominating.
Not afraid to nitpick
Don't forget the .380-something BABIP (last I checked),
which can also have some reflection on his defense in addition to poor luck.
I’m quite happy with where Shelby Miller is right now. In fact, I’m enthusastic about it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I thought it seemed a tad high,
but I hadn’t looked at it in a little while. I was pleasantly surprised at the 13.98 uptick, but, alas, it wasn’t to be.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Oh, absolutely.
It’s tremendous, without question, but a K rate of basically 14 is utterly ridiculous.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
he's their best asset
wonder if they shouldn’t deal him.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
that's good news
i doubt seattle would be interested in him if he was having trouble getting outs.
as for haren, i sort of doubt he moves. i just don’t think arizona is going to get an offer that is satisfactory to them. not sure if we have anybody they want, either.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
ugh
he is getting outs at QC…take a look at his K rate…and he’s specifically working on two pitches that he’s never thrown before…plus he’s on a very restrictive pitch count…there is no reason to sour on miller
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 29, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
miller's what, 19?
chill out.
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
that's the thing
when will he hit the bigs, 2013? i think our best window is 2010-2012.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
it is if we trade away all our best prospects
i’d like to contend every year, but if you don’t that’s cool too i guess
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
we will contend every year
but contending and winning the ws are 2 different things. carp might not be so great next year, or healthy. that’s why they traded for holliday, to go for it last year. trading for lee would be the same thing, only we’d take picks this time, which is better.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I just think if Penny comes back
We’ve got our playoff rotation (WW, Carp, Garcia, Penny) as long as there aren’t any more injuries, and that our rotation is as good as any other rotation that could make the playoffs. Adding Cliff Lee would be great, but I’d rather add Haren, who’s good for three more years replacing Penny when he leaves after the season, and giving us a solid 1, 2 punch after we buy out Carp’s 2012.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
we're not going to contend every year
if we trade away all of our high end prospects. trading them based on the fact that “we can always get another one next year” is incredibly short-sighted and fallacious
contending every year is worth more to me than a championship
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Why do we play the games?
To win championships. I’d rather win one World Series than be first or second in the division every year for 20 years WITHOUT winning a World Series.
The playoffs are a crapshoot, for sure, but if you can head into the playoffs with the best rotation you’ve got a much better shot at winning than trying to catch lightning in a bottle with the likes of Jeff’s Weaver and Suppan every year.
Don’t look now, but we’ve got some good pitching talent not named Shelby Miller in the minors right now. Lynn, Kopp, Hooker, and Kelly are all pitchers who’ve got some decent talent, and we just signed a guy who might be the best pitcher in the Latin market this season. I’m all for building from within as well, but sometimes the value you can get in trade for a starter in A ball who is at least two years away (and probably three).
When it comes down to it, I’d rather trade young players for 1 or 2 year rentals, offer arbitration and re-stock through draft picks than offer multi-year contracts to pitchers like Kyle fucking Lohse. At least with the former scenario we don’t get stuck under a bunch of long term deals for guys who are either hurt or are a shit sandwich when they aren’t hurt.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
there's a reason why
we keep needing to sign weavers, suppans and lohses.
and i don’t think you’re going to change my mind about whether i’d rather consistently contend or win a world series. it has nothing to do with whether or not the playoffs are a crapshoot. i want to watch good baseball, not have a moment of glory and then revel in mediocrity for several years
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
And that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it.
I feel, however, that my opinion actually lines up better with the overall goal of the Cardinal organization based on how they’ve operated in the past 3-4 seasons.
There’s a reason why we need to keep signing those guys? Mostly because we’ve had a rash of pitching injuries to our better starters and needed them to pick up the innings because we don’t have guys that are ready. It has little to nothing to do with developing minor league talent — we’ve developed two potential aces in the last 5 years out of our farm system, as well as a decent second baseman/leadoff hitter, a budding star CF, a possibly league average third baseman, and a great defensive SS. I’m not sure you can ask for much more than that, realistically, without being overly greedy or drafting in the top 15 for a decade like the Rays did.
There was little to no need to sign Kyle Lohse when we did. It was not the same situation as Joel Piniero the year before, and was 3 times as much money and twice as many years. We could have given any number of pitchers a one year deal at the time instead.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Lohse
I want to clarify. Do you mean there was little or no need to extend Lohse before season’s end or that there was no need to sign him that Hot Stove?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
No need for the 4 year deal at seasons end.
The 1 year deal in ST was a stroke of genius, which would make one think that Mo wouldn’t bother signing guys long term when he could pick up a Kyle Lohse or a Brad Penny on one year deals every year. Seems foolish to tie up assets in players if you don’t need to.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I've been an outspoken critic of the deal,
as you know. I have disliked it from Day One. But, we did have serious rotation questions at the end of the ‘08 season. Pineiro was coming off a 5.00+ ERA. Wainwright was coming off of a season with a large chunk missed due to his hand injury. Carp barely pitched and was a huge question mark. Looper was allowed to leave (justifiably). Lohse had a history of durability and seemed to offer a rock in the rotation; although, unquestionably, we paid for a rock of gold instead of what we were getting—a rock of fool’s gold.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
again, in his defense
he was pitching well enough for the contract until he got injured. pitching the last year with that injury should not be held against him. i am with fourstick on the championships and one-year pickups like penny, so i don’t think the lohse deal was wise, but it’s a bit unfair to say his performance sucked without noting he was injured most of that time, which happens.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yes
But therein lies the problem for rewarding a guy based on a career year. If Ryan Ludwick hits 47 homers with a slash line of .300/.400/.660 next year, would we give him a contract similar to what we gave Matt Holliday? Because that’s essentially what you’re saying.
We paid for 2008 Lohse and what we’ve gotten has been the Kyle Lohse from the previous 7 years of his career. I don’t see how that’s really justifiable. Especially since we could have signed any number of guys to one year deals during that offseason and we’d have much better flexibility in payroll right now. Hell, signing Looper to a one year deal via arbitration would have been better than what we actually did.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i'm only reading your first paragraph
because that’s not what i said at all. in fact i said the complete opposite. i said the lohse contract was not wise and agreed with you on picking up guys on a one-year basis, so i have no clue except that you obviously misread my comment. read it again. i just noted lohse having been injured most of that time, which even reinforces the contract not being wise, but if someone is speaking strictly of his performance, which is the comment i was replying to, the injury must be noted, is all, rather than suggesting the player sucked without giving the reason.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
not me, i'll take the flag
to each his own. miller is not going to help us until 2013 probably, and in the meantime all sorts of things can happen.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
eh
i just hate the idea of trading undeveloped dan haren for expensive dan haren. seems like we’re repeating past mistakes.
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
wasn't haren much further along
ready for the bigs and dunc didn’t want to deal him? miller is more of a crapshoot at this point, but i would definitely consult dunc if i was the front office and considering a deal.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Haren had started.
Dunc did not approve of the deal.
10-6 with the BOB.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
In 2004,
would you have traded Anthony Reyes for, say, Tim Hudson?*
Because Reyes was doing very similar things (albeit as an older player) at the same level in 2004 as Shelby Miller is doing right now. If you can get a known commodity that helps you right now, when your club is built to contend right now, then I think you have to make that deal. You can’t do it every year, obviously, but you also have to make those type of deals occasionally.
*I’m trying to give a similar situation to the Miller/Haren deal with pitchers who are similar. I believe Hudson 2004 to be very similar to Haren 2010, especially since he signed an extension similar to what Haren is already signed to. The situation is comparable, imo.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It's not hindsight if you put yourself in 2004
and then comment on whether you’d make that deal, as cardball says below.
Now, clearly, we know how Reyes turned out, but that’s more of a comment on the fragility of stockpiling prospects instead of trading them while their stock is high.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
excellent example
i understand it isn’t hindsight because you are saying take yourself back to that time, would you do it then, not looking back on it now. jocketty would have done that deal in a heartbeat i’d think, so it must not have been a possibility. it does illustrate very well how these pitching prospects, no matter how highly regarded, are still crapshoots when they have so far yet to go to help the big club. a lot can happen along the way, especially injury. as you say, you can’t do it every year, but when the window of opportunity is open for a championship sometimes you have to jump through it. to not do so would be akin to tony not trying to win the damn game. how do we know the window is open next year – what if carp goes down, luddy isn’t resigned, etc.? this year seems to be our opportunity with philly no juggernaut and the rocks injuries, and so on. last year we were a long-shot, this year we are less so for the league title, so why not go after the ws? the twins, for example, don’t give up prospects for rentals, but this year will likely go after lee because they see an opportunity for a title that also coincides perfectly, timing-wise, with the opening of a new park, and that they have a top prospect who is blocked (a la walrus) at his position anyway. to me, not to go for it would be akin to tony not pinch-hitting a position player to try to win the game now, and instead letting relievers bat with bases loaded in extra innings (as the home team nonetheless) in a 20-inning loss.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
how about 2B?
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
I don't want Carp in the rotation for 2-to-3 more years,
at his current salary. The warning signs are all lighting up this season, starting with his decreased fastball speed.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
His fastball speed is where it was in every year prior to 2009
Including the Cy Young years.
Not afraid to nitpick
Really?
Where are those speed stats found at?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I guess I thought they only had velocity going back to the start of Pitch F/X...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think it may seem like they have fallen off because it seemed like he was throwing especially hard the back half of last year.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 29, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
if he's here that long it won't be at his current salary
i think that ends after next year, and then there’s a club option which will be declined, but hopefully he’s still effective and they can work something reasonable out for another year or two.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
umm ...
Putting money aside,
I think everyone would like to have Cliff Lee on their team, especially to pair with two other aces for years to come. But the whole argument for whether you give up Miller and if you re-sign Lee is about money and value. The general consensus is that Miller’s value can be greater than Cliff Lee’s. When Miller starts becoming valuable, is a different question entirely.
"I told you, I don't like to be manhandled!"
First-round draft choice
when Cliff Lee departs as a free agent. That draft pick would replace Miller on the prospect list.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 29, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not.
Miller was picked #25, IIRC, and the Cards were shocked when he fell to them. If someone in the bottom half of teams picks up Lee, then the picks that you get are going to be something more like picks #33 and #48. That’s not nothing, but it’s also probably not Shelby Miller.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
No,
He was the 19th pick, dropped in the draft due to signability issues.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Which makes my point even more salient. . .
thanks for picking me up there, fourstick.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
We haven't missed on a first rounder the last couple of years
It would be nice to just continue that string of not mucking up the only round where great changing talent is found.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Albert Pujols and Mike Piazza
laugh at your un-informed first round snobbiness.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I see your un-informed first round snobbiness
and raise you 85% of the HOF players ever drafted.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
85% =/= "only round"
but yes, counting on finding a game-changing talent anywhere past the 4th round is a fool’s errand, admittedly.
Oh, and. . . call.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a complete crapshoot is all I'm saying
You may find a true diamond in the rough occasionally like Pujols or Piazza, someone that scouts just don’t believe in at all, or you might get lucky with a guy who has significant injury history in high school or college and drops because of it, but generally you’re probably 1 in 5 to get a major league regular out of the first 3 rounds and 1 in 15 or 20 after that.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I have done a lot of research
on pitchers and it seems like it drops off even earlier than the third round. I don’t have my sheet on this computer, but a huge number of top pitchers are either taken in the first two rounds or signed out of the international market.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
In general
You’re not getting a starter past the 5th round. You can find some good bullpen prospects but rarely ever a legit rotation guy.
There’s just very little pitching to go around, and it’s getting more and more that way because acquiring free agent pitching is getting very expensive. I think you have a lot more legit position players available later than you do pitchers as nearly every pitcher after the third round either is a tweener with mediocre stuff or a guy with great stuff and a sordid injury history or awful mechanics.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Agreed
When talking about the first two rounds I was thinking of the reference to game-changing talent. That means a 1-3 starter to me. Unfortunately for Cardinals fans, very, very few college pitchers taken after the first few rounds ever amount to anything. They may make the majors, but they are mostly middle relievers.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
hi
i’m Jake Peavy, the exception to the rule.
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
lots of exceptions
reading the piece on pujols amateur career, buehrle was mentioned having given up a granny to apu, and buehrle went later than peavy, maybe in the 20’s
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
oh yeah, jaime
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
That's why I said
“rarely ever a legit rotation guy”.
There will always be exceptions and if you want to scour the draft logs on B-Ref for the next 36 hours to prove me wrong, go right ahead, but for every guy you’re going to find past the 5th round, I’ll find 5 in the first 5 rounds.
Also keep in mind that Stephen Strasburg wasn’t even considered a prospect out of high school. He wasn’t even drafted. Then three years later he’s the best pitching prospect in the history of the world. I would guess there are similar stories with guys like Peavy and Beuhrle.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
probably a difference between pitchers and position players
isn’t there?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
what's the percentage of first-round busts, around 85?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'd say less than 40% are ever true "busts"
That never make the majors and contribute at all.
By the time you get to the third round, though, about 90-95% of all players drafted in those rounds will never contribute more than one full season at the major league level. That’s a huge drop off.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
but "busts" in the sense that they don't become average mlb players at least?
it’d be much higher, it seems, especially if one is counting on 4-6 years of cheap and productive labor from them
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Sure
But the risk is worth the reward vs. trying to find average MLB players on the free agent market. Just ask Tampa Bay.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Didn't Erik
do a piece a year or two ago that said roughly 70% of first round pitchers don’t really contribute at the MLB level?
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
Could be,
but then again, if that 30% includes a CC Sabathia and a Tim Lincecum, you’re doing pretty damn well, lol.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Agreed
and he limited his analysis to the first six years of a players career too
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
They may have a high fail rate
But you only need one or two to pan out over the course of a decade to alter your franchise considerably.
Think if both Rick Ankiel and Alan Benes had lived up to their potential and not gotten hurt/lost the plate? Put those two with Matt Morris and you have a fantastic staff for the better part of 6 seasons in the early part of the oughts.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It is a great question
as to whether you try to balance your early picks from year-to-year between position players and pitchers. I think I would tend to pick more position players early unless there was a clear pitching choice. Now, if they can get high-upside HS pitchers early I might change my tune.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
High upside
draft eligible sophomores and juniors are also not bad picks either. The generally are closer to the majors.
I think what you draft depends a lot of the texture of the particular draft you’re picking in as well. My only hard an fast rule would be that you should never be drafting based on need in the first 50 picks of any draft. You should simply take the player that you consider to be the best player on the board at any given time. It’s when the Cardinals have drafted for need that they’ve gotten themselves in trouble (Lambert, Kozma, etc.)
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
well yeah, you should take your draft picks -
didn’t even know you could pass – but at the same time sometimes it’s worth trading them for a “sure thing” when there is no guarantee that they themselves will ever become such.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
as opposed to all the prospects who are a sure thing
i see
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 30, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
yes, my point exactly - you finally see
these prospects, other than a strasburg and the other rarities, are not sure things, at all. miller is not a sure thing, but lee on the other hand is a “sure thing” – a known quantity.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
That's exactly the point
You want to be competitive every year? Then that necessitates trading prospects for veteran players from time to time.
If you simply build from within all the time, you’re either going to have to lose quite a bit for a period of 3-4 years so that you can draft high enough to get impact talent, and then pray that the impact talent you draft doesn’t flame out. So in the best case scenario, you’re looking at 3 years of losing seasons most likely, and in the worst case you could lose an entire decade by “playing for the future”.
Sure, we need to develop young, cheap talent. But that doesn’t mean that we don’t also need to trade some of that cheap talent for veteran value players when those players are available to us.
From your point of view, we never should have traded Bud Smith and Placido Polanco for Scott Rolen. I mean, Smith had just thrown a no-hitter and had a good minor league track record and Polanco was a good light hitting middle infielder. Those guys could have been the future of the Cardinal organization! Instead, Polanco became a very good player, Smith flamed out, and Rolen helped us get to 2 World Series, 1 title, and multiple playoff appearances from 2000 to 2006.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
True...
but his most likely destinations as a FA are the NY teams, LA teams, Boston… I don’t see any of the worst 15 teams making a play.
Fire La Russa!
Yah, but still. . .
expecting that kind of talent to be available when you make that selection from mid-20s to 32 is foolhardy, if that is why you are trading Shelby Miller.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sort of a novice when it comes to the inner workings of the draft, but if you're...
not picking in the top 5, does it really matter where you pick? Seems like there is upside talent to be had anywhere if you want to pay the bonus. Multiple guys always slide because of bonus demands. That means every team has a the opportunity to grab a Wallace, Cox, Wilson, Jenkins, Scheppers, Miller, Porcello, etc…
Fire La Russa!
It does matter. . .
You make a good point, of course, but all else being equal (and no, it’s never equal, of course), the lower a guy is drafted, the less likely a guy is to sign. Austin Wilson, come on down.
All I’m saying is that counting on a Miller-type prospect to be available to you with the expected compensatory pick involves counting on a lot of things that are out of your control:
- If Lee/Haren gets hurt late in the season, no one will sign him at the risk of losing a compensatory pick.
- The identity of the team that signs him affects greatly the chances that a Miller-esque clone will be there.
- Following from that, some inordinate number of teams will have to pass on “your guy”
- Your guy has to be willing to sign
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Signabilty
You’re generally correct in your view that the lower a guy goes the less likely he is to sign, but that’s usually only in the case of being drafted post 10th round. In Wilson’s case the signability issues stem from his and his parents’ wishes for him to graduate, not from us taking him outside of the first round.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
While this is definitely true
You can still get some pretty damn good talent in the late first round, so the more picks you have in the top 50 every year, the better off you’re going to be and the better your draft is going to look.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
This is how I feel too.
If you pick up a mid 20’s pick from another team and have a mid-20’s pick yourself, then you can get a signability guy with one of them and a college senior with some polish with the other.
The more picks you can accrue in the top 50 the better. When you get outside the top 50-75 players it starts becoming more of a crapshoot.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
like cox this year, there are always guys falling in a draft
like stetson allie, too. every year guys fall and are available, and next year is a good draft compared to this.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Agreed
Outside of Harper, Taillon, and Pomeranz, (and maybe Harvey) I felt this draft was pretty “meh” on top end talent. I think next year’s draft will be deeper in terms of impact players — both Sickels and Seiler seem to think this way as well.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
The odds of finding a guy capable of a near 14 K/9 in his first year are not very good
Not afraid to nitpick
I would give up Miller for Haren yesterday.
Probably not for Lee though.
Haren has 2 years and a club option for a third year left on his deal and is already a Dave Duncan type of pitcher (no walks, good control, sinks the ball well when he’s pitching well) and he would benefit from pitching in Busch III as he seems to have problems with homers as of late. He makes about $5M more each of the next two seasons than what we are paying Brad Penny this year, but Wainwright’s contract escalations paired with Lohse’s contract escalations, coupled with a Pujols extension probably make this deal unlikely. You really can’t have 4 ten millionaires on your pitching staff and keep payroll where the Cardinals need to keep it in order to make money.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
OPEN DEWALLET!
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
can that moniker
still be used in light of the fact that “DeWallet” just paid Holliday a bajillion dollars?
yeah, unfortunately he listened
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Payroll
would only work if Carp’s 2012 option is declined. I am not too sure Carp will be worth $15MM at age 37. Even then, the cost of the rotation would go from $36.4MM to $47MM in 2011. Using a rookie for the # 5 slot in 2012 would push the starters cost back to $35MM range.
Garcia would be the rookie in that spot most likely
And he’d still be making the minimum, unless the team decides to tender him a contract to buy out his arbitration years. If he continues to pitch the way he has so far, that might not be a bad idea.
The other thing that we have to look at in this scenario is whether to buy out Colby’s arbitration years. Lock him up with an escalating deal with a couple of team options until 2016 or thereabouts.
I just don’t see any scenario where we can afford to pay four pitchers $10M+ each at any point in the next 3 years, because of the impending Pujols extension that will have to happen.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
that option will be declined
maybe they’ll work something out though if carp wants to pitch.
i’d rather have lee than haren. i doubt we have anything to offer to get either, though. miller is a good prospect, and he’s ours so maybe we view him a bit differently, but there are miller’s in every draft class. it’s not like we’re talking about a strasburg.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Um, no
Sign him to an extension? You do want to re-sign Albert, right?
by jd is legend on Jun 29, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd give up Miller for Haren
in a heartbeat. Lee, not as much.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 29, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I Wouldn;t Give Miller Up
for either; but then I’m an egg-man, coo coo cachoo…
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
U Can All Thank the MooCow....
…for our victory last night. Every single time I turned on the game, something bad happened: I flip on the game, ooooh, Dan Haren homers off Carp. Switch to Bizarre Foods. Turn it back on, Cards have 2 on with Pujols/Holiday/Rasmus coming up – they all whiff. Switch back to Andrew Zimmern eating toad faces. Switch back to the game, watch Randy Wynn dunk a homer for Mark Reynolds – back to Zimmern eating toad faces for good. Since the universe was CLEARLY telling me not to watch this game, I fought the urge to watch the bitter finale, only to find out this moorning that WE WON!!!!
All because I didn’t watch it.
You may all now shower the MooCow with accolades, high fives, robust “Atta’ Cow”s, and so forth and so on…
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Jun 29, 2010 8:24 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Bully!
I wish I cud shake your hoof, Mr. Moo. I dairy much appreciate you doing your part.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jun 29, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
apu and holliday whiffed
i thought colby flied out.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yes he did
I just watched the shortened version. I turned it off also last night. Couldn’t take it. I’m a wimp!
"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
Yer right...
..but he whiffed a couple times earlier. Didn’t matter, he made the out ’cause I was watching. Stupid GOBs…
:=8P
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
obviously we were doing it wrong the whole game
instead of trying for hits we needed to do more bunting and trying to hit grounders right to them.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Haren and I seem to agree on one point...
Haren said La Russa’s ejection it was simply a tactic to throw him off.
"Tony’s good at delaying like that," Haren said. "I’ve seen it before and I knew exactly what he was doing. He’ll probably do it again because it looks like it works." Source: AP Sports
TLR got tossed and then used it to delay the hell out of Haren which led to two straight singles which were the two tying runs. Although his intentions weren’t clear at the time of the ejection, and the result wasn’t exactly orthodox, TLR’s ejection was a catalyst in some form or another.
'Real women know that the way to a man's heart...is through a melee attack!' - KB
Formerly known as The_teague
yeah, and then Yadi called time.
they did have a good case for it, though. when the pitcher and catcher ask about the strike zone, and there’s stuff on tv that supports the argument, it’s not like he was arguing nothing.
on the other hand, the last time Carp faced the D-backs, they did nothing but call time and try to shake him off his rhythm. might be a little payback.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Additional Haren quote
in the mothership article by Bleach (not to be confused with Leach)
“I think Tony knew it was a strike, too.”
it wasn't danny
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
by VolsnCards5 on Jun 29, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
has Arizona turned him into a bitter sasquatch?
hmm.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
sure looks like it was
full quote
Haren didn’t hesitate in postgame interviews to call La Russa out for a little gamesmanship.
“Tony is good at that. He’s good at delaying like that. I’ve seen it before. I knew exactly what he was doing,” Haren said. “I could almost tell you before the inning that something like that would happen. He’s a great manager, and that’s one of the things that he does, and I guess he’ll probably do it again because it looked like it worked and that’s that.”
“I think Tony knew it was a strike, too.”
I think perhaps there was a missing comma...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't
but Tony’s point, and I think a valid one, was that Haren was getting that call and out pitchers hadn’t gotten it all night.
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 29, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Carp was running hot all day long
then they hit him, which enraged him further. saw him before the game going at Dunc. and I missed it, but he was going at it with Tony during the possible hook.
Our starting pitchers are totally carrying this team. That was just the most awesome example yet.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
gah, sbn.
p.s. SportsCenter doesn’t seem to grasp that Jaime Garcia is another starting pitcher. mentions Wainwright of course, and Motte, and then… nothing.
I’m starting to wonder if the FSM guys in the truck are the one shorting us on the national level. don’t they forward notes from the game? are they incomplete somehow?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it's a ploy
to keep him off everyone’s radar. He’s going to win the Cy Young in 2013, and the Yankees will be like “We’ve never even heard of him!”
by WyoCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
except not-knowing players can cost them awards
like, say, ROY.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
didn't coghlan win it last year, from the marlins
and an oakland a’s – seems the voters know who’s who.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the rookie class was terrible last year
in something like this, with lots of head-to-head contenders, extra media attention could mean the difference of a few (uninformed) votes. like, say, a Cy Young race.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yeah, but this excellent rookie class has a couple guys who will get
most of the votes, probably, so it’s sort of a race for third. maybe that’s a big deal, but not to me.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
so...... YDGAF?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i would if i thought he had a legit shot
which has nothing to do with being deserving, btw.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i watched most of the SCs
they named him but didn’t mention he was a pitcher.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
essentially he could've been Aaron Miles.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
this bizarre game also means
Haren and Carpenter are so good, they pitched against each other and have still never lost against each other’s teams. ( tv stats disclaimer.)
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I see you've learned from the mistakes of one BJ Rains
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
i was always like this.
but then again, i always quote tv stats……..
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
well...
I wonder if Dan Haren’s agent has put this into his trading deadline Power Point presentation?
Strauss is now reporting that the cardinals believe Haren would be an easier target than Lee.
Via Twitter?
I hope that your attribution was good enough for Strauss’s liking.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
he should be easier
lee will be the most sought after, so that automatically makes him the tougher due to the bidding war. there’s a lot less interest in haren – the snakepit is even worried they won’t be able to move him. so, heh, brilliant reporting by strauss.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
and now the bad news. bring your own unicorn.
- Cards to DL David Freese today due to persistent ankle sprain. Also pondering bullpen move. #stlcards about 5 hours ago via Echofon
- Cardinals uncertain if Carpenter makes his next start on turn after he was smoked on R. forearm by Kelly Johnson shot in Monday’s 1st inn. about 8 hours ago via Echofon
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
at the disco?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Unicorns in the pockets in London
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Ah, how I miss one-pound (or, dollar) coins.
They are so handy when gettinga coffee, candy bar, or newspaper because you don’t have to deal with your wallet.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I love how change is actually worth something in the UK
the two pound coins are great too. It’s about equal to 3 dollars right now. You can buy a nice lunch with a few coins.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Just when one thinks things couldn't get worse...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
but it might mean the return of he who lives on the milk carton
Carp news still sucks though.
"I told you, I don't like to be manhandled!"
I doubt we'll get that lucky.
I think we’re more likely to get Greene, who, quite frankly, should have been getting some starts at SS for a while now.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
No chance.....
T. Greene should get the call up. Hopefully he’ll actually perform at a decent level, then maybe you all will get your wish when we’re healthy again, and Miles will hit the road.
We all know Miles is here for the duration
I do hope Tyler plays well. His speed is fun to watch at least.
When Miles was the DH Saturday
I think we all knew no matter what, he’s staying on this team.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 29, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Too funny
Hopefully he’ll actually perform at a decent level
As poor as Greene has played in the past, it’s STILL better than Miles. Literally, Greene could play at exactly his past ML level, not improve his past performance at all, and it’d be light years better than Miles.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 29, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I want to believe you
but I haven’t seen anything in Tyler’s past cameos that says major leaguer to me. Of course, that is also true of Miles….
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
Cameos
I would never declare a player to be a major leaguer or not based on cameos. Something more than a cameo is required. Bo Hart looked very much like a major leaguer, if we used a cameo to gauge his true talent. Greene’s MLE for 2010 is a .713 OPS, which is a higher OPS than Ryan, Schumaker, Miles, and three points lower than Felipe Lopez this season. Greene is in the midst of a second consecutive season at AAA that merits giving him an extended look in St. Louis, especially with how horrible our MIF has hit to date.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I tend to agree with you. . .
but the exception that proves the rule is high-strikeout, no/low power guys tend not to make it on the next level. Of course, most of those types of guys don’t have T. Greene’s defensive chops, either, so he has a different way to create value.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously
a cameo is not the definitive view. Nevertheless, I just can’t get excited about a guy who has terrible pitch recognition skills. The few dingers he has hit that have buoyed his stats will disappear as a book is developed on him. Of course, he could just be freaked out by TLR or the big-league environment and may adjust over time. I have also been very disappointed in what I have seen of his defense.
I guess we need to find out for sure, but he just doesn’t inspire a lot of optimism for me.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
Thinking Tyler Greene is going to be good major league player...
and thinking he will an upgrade over Aaron Miles aren’t the same things.
I have no illusions that Tyler Greene has fixed or will fix his pitch recogniton skills or his relatively high k rate; but notwithstanding those faults, he should play over Aaron Miles every day and twice on double-header day.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 29, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You can safely count me
as a believer that Aaron Miles is, and has been for most of his career, the worst player in MLB. That doesn’t make Tyler Greene an exciting call up unless you think, likely erroneously, that Miles would be behind him in TLR’s pecking order.
Anything that gets Miles off the team or at least keeps him off the field is a good thing.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
I disagree with your last sentence.
For instance, a nuclear holocaust would not be a good thing.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
not even
a really, really small one?
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
Chemical warfare, however. . .
is a toss-up.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What's Tonya Harding
up to these days?
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
About 1200 pounds...
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Jun 29, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
the russians can poison pretty well
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
so wait a minute
we’re already on a 4 man rotation
relying heavily on the defense to make those innings as short as possible for our starters
and now our defense is missing luddy and batman
and carp will miss a start
i’m surprised there hasn’t been more FUUUUU from everyone here
I got this...
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 29, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
not even that. LaRue shaved.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm glad they are doing the right thing and putting Freese on the DL
Having two of your 3.5 starters running the bases on their off days, while entertaining, is just stupid. We need bodies and Freese needs to heal. Call up Greene.
great.
although my dad and i were talking last night after carp got hit on the arm that you’d think he’d be cautious enough after his injury history. he seemed to do OK last night.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 29, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
no contraction, fancy.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
i wonder how the d-backs are feeling about Haren saying he wants to go
"I’ve always said I’d like to play here again," said Haren
[…]
"It’s not a situation where I’m asking to be traded," Haren said. "It’s not the first time it’s happened to me. … I’m sure it will get crazy come July 31."
wouldn’t that make the atmosphere in the clubhouse weird?
src
Heh. Manstew at the plate.
Plus, further down the pictures list is the most amount of physical contact Molina risks with Motte.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Even more evidence of just how tall Adam Wainwright is.
He’s a giant!
And the photo of Motte pitching is awesome.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
He's a giant meeting the dwarf king!
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
fantastic
more…
this is where your life flashes before your eyes
Matt Holliday realizes he was meant to be a ninja
Wainwright is exhausted from his boxing match
there are no clear pictures of the mob scene(s) at the end. Motte might have taken out the camera guys.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
a second later there was an explosion
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
So here's an oddball question
Mark Reynolds was credited w/ a home run last night when Randy Winn bounced the otherwise warning track or base of wall fly into the bullpen. It’s happened before (see Canseco, Jose) will undoubtedly happen again. My question is, why is this not a “4-base error” since the ball clearly hit the fielder’s glove in the field of play and, also clearly, would not have gone over the wall without the fielder’s assistance?
I know that the accepted ruling, and probably the only one really possible, is “home run”, but, dag nab it, we inflated Reynold’s already ridiculous batting stats and he really shouldn’t get credit for a home run when he didn’t really hit one.
The only explanation that makes any sense,
is that since the ball did not land in play, it’s not an error. But I don’t think that’s right either, because if a guy drops a foul in foul territory, that can be called an error.
I blame Bud Selig for this.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
It is an error.
I wonder how they handle a misplayed ball that results in an inside-the-park home run? Because, that, too, counts as a homer on the stat sheet, doesn’t it?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Seems like there are many scoring customs
that aren’t fair to pitchers. Why should the hitter get credit for a hit on a bad hop grounder or fly ball that drops between fielders or a “Holliday” that gets lost in the lights?
I think a fair compromise would have been to give Reynolds a 2B and charge Winn with a two-base error. Of course, that would sink Winn’s 245 game errorless streak.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
So hits allowed for a pitcher should be: Line drives + hard-hit fly balls?
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
Why should the hitter get credit for
a misjudged flyball or miscommunication between two OFs?
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
Because he also gets screwed by great plays made by OFs?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Why should he lose credit for
a fantastic play by a fielder?
Same coin, different side, IMHO. There will always be these types of inequities.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
No error appears in the box score,
the hitter is awarded a hit. I think this is one of those special cases. Cardball points out below that it would have been a great play by Winn to catch the ball. I agree that it wasn’t a can-o-corn, but maybe didn’t take an exceptional play to catch it. My larger point is, had the ball been a high fly giving the fielder plenty of time to camp under it (like Canseco’s play) and THEN the ball bounces off his glove/head/nether regions and goes over the fence it is still (as far as I have ever heard/seen) called a HR and no error is awarded. OTOH, if the ball bounced off of said fielder and landed on the warning track and the batter ended up on 2B, I would guess that the official scorer would NOT credit the batter with a hit but, instead, call it a 2 base error. My question is, why the discrepancy in the case of a ball that bounces over the fence?
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 29, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't think there is a discrepancy, is there?
why wouldn’t a can of corn that gets knocked over be a 4-base error? what was canseco given? if it was an error, it had to be 4-bases.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Because they don't give out errors like they should.....
It’s almost like giving out an error is a last resort. I don’t like it. There are a TON of plays that should be scored errors that are not.
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 29, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember a discussion about this on the ESPN.com somewhere.
Essentially, someone (now that I think about it, I’m pretty sure it was Simmons) advocted jokingly for the creating of a new stat, for something that isn’t technically an error, but still hurts your team, like taking a bad route on a fly ball or the like.
I’m pretty sure he wanted to call it the “ManRam,” as 90% plus of these were expected to be committed by Manny Ramirez.
It is already represented in Dewan's +/- and UZR.
And, in FIP, xFIP, and tERA, I believe. (It’s been a while since I’ve gotten down in the weeds on those formulas.)
This is why folks prefer to use these types of stats, as opposed to ERA, Fielding %, and Error totals.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
They should...
replace errors with the number of batted balls that would have been turned into outs by Ozzie Smith or the equivalent, but weren’t.
Fire La Russa!
What would we call it?
The “OZ-” because it would just be how far below Ozzie all defensive players are?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Holy shit!
Randy Winn did not get an error for that play last night!
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
In the outfield especially
It’s almost impossible for outfielders to get an error.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 29, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
NGAFAYFT. . .
but no thanks, I have Mark Reynolds, so don’t be dissing him. And as far as how ridiculous as his batting stats are, he’s actually having a worse season than last year. He’s a damn fine hitter, if you are a TTO fanatic.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Or
if your league, like mine, uses OBP instead of BA
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
The K's kill me.
I just give that category away every week.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
oops, mis-use of riduculous there
I meant strange, not good.
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 29, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Winn has a streak of errorless games going too
265 or something
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Asterisk it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
because to be a 4-base error it must first be an error
winn almost made a nice catch, but it’s like a shortstop getting a glove on a ball because of his range but not being able to make a play. going up in the air like that is the same as diving – both are leaving your feet to make an exceptional play, which if you don’t make is not an error. the pitcher erred by letting a ball get hit to the fence. winn’s taking a beating on this for getting to a ball luddy wouldn’t. it is nothing like the canseco ball, which he was camped under and hit him in the head. winn was at full extension. jay bruce might make that play all day, and winn maybe 50% of the time, but the criteria for an error is, i believe, that you don’t make a play that a typical big-leaguer at that position typically makes.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Jun 29, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha
he may have caught it if he got there, just the getting there i doubt.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Getting there with hurt quad?
no. But ludwick gets to that ball if he’s healthy.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
I agree
great jumps what not
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
ok, we'll never know
but i guess you’re saying winn doesn’t get good jumps, because he’s a lot faster than luddy, and i love the ludster but just don’t think he gets that one, so long as he was positioned where winn was.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
not sure about Winn
but Luddy does get outstanding jumps. There has been some reporting on that recently. Plus, I don’t think I would characterize Winn as “a lot” faster than Luddy. He didn’t get that shiny UZR just with good jumps.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
have you seen lud on the bases
and winn? winn still has acceleration too for stealing bases. luddy doesn’t have that initial burst, good jump or not.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
We were talking
about defense. Initial speed burst is a little less important in the outfield than when stealing bases.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
not really at all
luddy might get a better jump in terms of he reads it quicker and starts for it, but the split second winn would lose he more than makes up for over the course of 20-30 yds.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
no... I'm an RFL supporter
Ludwick would have let it go for a ground rule double. the smrt thing to do (unless I’ve forgotten where the men on base were.)
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Yea, you're right
that would have been a very good play by Winn to make the catch. My question is more of the idle curiosity type on a more routine fly ball. As I commented above, I would bet $1M internet dollars that if a high fly (plenty of time for the fielder to get under it) were to bounce from said fielder’s glove to the warning track and the batter reached 2B, the play would be scored as a 2 base error. But, if the same ball happened to bounce off the glove over the fence, it’s a HR, no error, etc.
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 29, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
i was surprised (and disgusted)
at how the cards hadn’t learned to be careful pitching to haren (given that the game before last, he went 4 for 4 against us).
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
It's the other side of the Bud Norris coin.
Soft tossing junkballers kill us from the mound. Why shouldn’t Cy Young candidates kill us with the bat?
They haven't?
"I hit that ball pretty good," said Haren, whose 405-foot shot to right-center was the second homer of his career. "(Carpenter) threw me a first-pitch curveball and I told (catcher) Molina, ‘Man, that’s respect right there. I appreciate that.’ Then he threw me a fastball and I hit the home run.
"It’s not a secret that I’m having a good year hitting. I’ve seen it all. (Jason) Motte threw me one fastball and four cutters and that guy throws 100 miles an hour. … The secret’s out."
Did you guys hear that Tiger's wife is asking for $750 million?
Man, that’s such a crazy amount that we should discuss this ad nauseum for 5 hours!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Oh god I can't wait for Portal 2
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I'm glad we could put this all behind us
…you monster.
Joe Morgan: "I've always said that the purpose of a minor league system is to help the big league club."
by Oedipa Maas on Jun 29, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Over how many seasons would that be paid out?
by Cardfanintherock on Jun 29, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm assuming she's a ROOGY?
And I’m done…
by Cardfanintherock on Jun 29, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think she's more of a starter type.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 29, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard she absolutely hates
being pinch-hit for
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
by giveml on Jun 29, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
but she's fond of the double-switch
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
She likes to go the distance?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 29, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe the incessant demands to my brain
to ignore anything to do with Tiger Woods is finally taking hold. When I read ’Tiger’s wife’ above I thought you meant a Detroit player that you didn’t feel you had to name for some reason.
Maybe my brain is finally getting the message. I’m happy
not lying, right?
right?
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Yeah, I want to quote this, it's too funny
The Cardinals will place David Freese on the disabled list Tuesday.
Freese has been bothered by a sore ankle for a few weeks now and only rest is going to cure it. He will head to the disabled list with a .296/.361/.404 batting line, four home runs and 36 RBI. Felipe Lopez should see most of the starts at third in his absence, but the Tony La Russa-run Cardinals also feature baseball’s worst player — Aaron Miles — and he will vulture some starts.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Jun 29, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If I woke up tomorrow and our rotation
was Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright and Dan Haren….
…..it would be like I was still having the dream I’ve been having the last 4 years.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 29, 2010 12:18 PM EDT reply actions
*Living* the dream...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
ot: penalty kick.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
oh he almost got to it.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
oh noes!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
CLANG!
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Skip Schumaker reaches on a fielder's choice, fielded by first baseman Adam LaRoche. Brendan Ryan scores. Adam Wainwright scores. Throwing error by first baseman Adam LaRoche. One out.
it's Honda, omg....
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
ouch. oh Japan. so close.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Keisuke!!!
and yet they lose anyway…what a disappointment. now yet another boring south american side are in the last eight…
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
Tonight we get Dontrelle Willis,
with his 7.4 BB/9 IP and his 0.88 K:BB ratio. He walked 7 in 2.1 IP his last start. Hopefully we can take a few tonight.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 29, 2010 12:50 PM EDT reply actions
You seem to be forgetting one key fact: We are the Cardinals.
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
And Dontrelle is now officially
a washed up, soft tossing lefty. We’re doomed.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jun 29, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know, I think last night was the spark we needed.
Tony may have finally gotten these guys fired up. I feel a blow out coming, with a strong night by the offense… soft tossing lefty or not, the offense is about to break out.
RFL for GG!
idk about fired up
our last two batters last night grounded out
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
skip's was routine
but winn’s was hit hard – probably about a 70% chance of a hit on that with a drawn-in infield.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He's dialed down the velocity in an attempt to gain control
Early in the season, while with Detroit, his FB was in the 88-91 mph range. I’m not sure what it’s been over the last month or so though.
RFL for GG!
Ware the Miles, Winn, Stavinoha top of the order lineup
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
You never no
I sure there is a Tony world somewhere where that sounds like a good idea. We haven’t been treated yet to Miles leading off, have we??
"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
word fail, before the police get here." Yu neber no"
"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
Yep, prediction for Dontrelle's line tonight
7.1 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 6 K, 1 BB
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 29, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Prediction
9.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 4 K, 15 BB
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
by chalk on Jun 29, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
with less that 110 pitches
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
Sounds like the gameplan will be
Make sure you swing at the first good pitch. You may not see another one.
I'd say it's "make him throw you 2 strikes out of 6 pitches before you think about swinging"
Not afraid to nitpick
Thanks for sealing our fate...
I do believe that we will now see 8 shutout innings and 0 walks from Willis tonight.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Multiple steak dinners will be awarded post-game
Steak dinner = 3 outs on 3 pitches.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
The Jinx was already in place.
ESPN’s simulator on their preview page had the Cards as 82% favorites. It’s the most lopsided margin I’ve seen there this season. Any time I’ve checked and they’ve been more than 65% favs, you can guess how it turns out. I’m expecting lobsters aplenty.
What a terrible line
I bet the Cardinals get no-hit.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 29, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
mlbtr says earliest super 2 cutoff ever...
Jay Bruce the big winner. Reds are the big loser. They’ll have a couple million less to spend this winter…
Fire La Russa!
Jaime wins too
Assuming no three week demotion to AAA this season, Garcia will have 2yrs 147 days (per Cot’s) at season end to qualify.
Yeah, but he would've qualified anyways, right?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
and headley misses by a day
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I have an intern luncheon with CEO Howard Lincoln next week
What are some questions I can ask him to show him how awesome I am?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
How can seattle help the cardinals land Danny Haren?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
hell, go for the big gun, since he's right there - get us cliff lee
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
How does it feel to be
the CEO of the 6th best franchise in the league?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jun 29, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You are all incredibly unhelpful
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Jun 29, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I do what I can.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jun 29, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Knock-knock jokes are always a good ice breaker
by jd is legend on Jun 29, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It has been awhile since the Mariners have made it to the postseason,
so I’m not surprised you don’t recognize them.
by Cardfanintherock on Jun 29, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
ask him how he managed to win that court case
where he somehow argued that donkey kong was in no way infringing upon king kong’s copyrights.
Ahh good call.
I remember reading about that.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
What kind of questions are we talking here?
Are they supposed to be Mariner-specific or can you just toss out anything related to baseball?
by Cardfanintherock on Jun 29, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Trying to come up with anything original is hard.
Everything I’m thinking of tends to come off as one of those questions that they probably get asked by sportswriters, etc. all the time.
Example: If you had to pick one player as the basis for your franchise who would it be?
Ask him often he gets asked those questions.
by Cardfanintherock on Jun 29, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
ask him how much safeco park factors are weighed in the acquisition and drafting of players
particularly fly ball pitchers- is this something they actively try to exploit to find bargains?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
You could debate him on the ethics of video games.
He was a pretty big defender of video games when video game violence was brought up in the 90’s.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Mortal Kombat for the Sega Genesis is the best game of all time
by jd is legend on Jun 29, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Great game,
but I will always favor MarioKart 64, on the N64 obviously.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial
Also solid.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial
I disagree,
it’s a very good game, but I think Donkey Kong is the best game ever
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 29, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you know it's frowned upon to rig a projectile grappling hook
to your forearm, shoot it through someone’s throat and reel them in while yelling, “Get over here”? Me neither. . . it seemed so natural in the game.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Inspector Gadget gone bad...
He just couldn’t take it anymore
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Didn't you link to that live action MK clip on Kotaku?
That was freaking amazing.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Yeah that was me
I reallllllllly hope it gets made… but I wouldn’t be upset if I never had to see that Reptile again…
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Whatever you ask him, try not to make it seem like you're "showing him how awesome" you are.
Nobody likes a show-off asskisser.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 29, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't listen to him mysterui
He’s just jealous of you
by jd is legend on Jun 29, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He's obviously never been to the Barney Stinson School of Awesomeness
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Jun 29, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ask him about the availability of insurance for players
I had heard that the market for insuring these contracts especially pitchers has really dried up. And maybe couple it with something about whether the lack of insurance causes a team to exercise more caution in offering long term deals. So ultimately you are asking how the Mariners are available to mitigate the risk of longterm deals.
Alternatively, how he would approach constructing a contract for a Pujols-caliber player. Would he consider deferred money? any other creative ways to add value without committing too much of your payroll to one player?
by OCCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also you might ask about issues related to luxury tax
There has been a lot of debate about whether the Marlins, Royals, Pirates should be required to invest luxury tax funds into their teams rather than just to profit from the fact that the Yankees and Red Sox bust the bank. Is this something that needs to be addressed?
I think some strings are not a bad idea.
The problem is that all money is fungible. So, if they earmark the luxury tax money for, say, MLB payroll, then they just shift other money around and still wind up paying ownership.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Agree
But its a problem nonetheless if certain teams are receiving $30M payouts from other teams and then spending less then that on putting a team on the field. The tax is just not having its intended consequences.
I'm all for a salary floor and ceiling being established.
If we’re going to limit what is spent at the high end, then we must also maximize what is spent on the low end.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
That depends on what you think it's intended consequences are.
They should just re-name the luxury tax the “Yankee tax” because that’s the only team that’s ever actually paid it more than once. It’s to reign in the spending of the NYY in lieu of actually making them share more of their revenue with the rest of the league.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
The way you solve this problem is to institute a salary floor
But in order to do that, you have to have a better revenue sharing agreement then that MLB currently does and go to a model more consistent with the NFL’s revenue sharing agreement where all revenue is shared equally among all the teams.
It’s something to talk about, but the thing is, the Marlins have won two World Series being penny pinchers, and Oakland has been one of the more successful organizations in baseball at winning regular season games and getting to the playoffs in the last 10 years. Same with Minnesota.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It's odd to see Minnesota with a payroll approaching $100MM these days.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
New stadium has a lot to do with that
They had no lux box revenue at the Metrodome, which is why the Vikings desperately want out of there as well, even though it’s been a very good stadium in terms of home field advantage for them over the last 30 years.
The Twins will have much better revenue at Target and they have some great baseball fans and a winning tradition there.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think it might also have to do with Carl Pohlad no longer controlling the purse strings.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
what about the 2 1-0 losses
we probably should have won those
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions
So, I figure now's a good time to say
I’m getting married soon.
Sure this won’t develop into some super long subthread about golfers and models and lots of alimony.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
no
it will go into how many of the other veb’ers have been recently married, most likely.
congrats though.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Oh that's how it begins
you just wait. First comes that, then the divorced members express cynicism towards marriage. Then all hell breaks loose.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
We were at Saturday's game in KC
And when Colby went deep, my wife actually got visible goosebumps.
When Schumaker went deep, the same thing happened.
Also, Cooperstown is her favorite vacation place — we’ve been four times.
I am a lucky man. Sometimes, marriage works out.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 29, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
What happens when ugly players hit HRs?
That does sound pretty sweet. My fiancee is a baseball fan too. It’s nice to go to a game and discuss if the manager should hit and run or not.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Oh RasmusGirl's got something to say "'bout it."
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
my wife tells me i look like colby
she thinks he’s dreamy
by I miss Jack Buck on Jun 29, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
actually i have heard it from several people
hoping he becomes a superstar, and my average looks get slightly upgraded by no doing of my own.
by I miss Jack Buck on Jun 29, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
i wonder...
it sounds like since freese has been put on the dl, the cards are going to bring a pitcher up.
who might it be, and what would happen at 3rd? lopex?
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Yeah probably. I'm generally okay with Lopez, though I wish Craig would get a chance at 3rd
…Salas?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i would agree with you
i wish they’d call craig up and give him a chance for once, but it sounds like they’ll probably be sticking with lopex (which scares me).
and yeah, i’d probably say salas.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
i just don't like his defense
he’s a good hitter, but his defense is just too shaky for me.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
good point.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
your feelings have now betrayed him too!
now the failure is complete.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
his defense is only bad at shortstop imo
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.....
His defense has been a lot better the past couple of years. I’ll admit he was shakey when he made his first pass through STL, but I’d actually consider him average or above at 2B/3B.
And while his defense is still
below average at SS, he is not as atrocious as he was there in the past couple of years IMHO. Small beer, that, of course, but not near beer.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
lopex isn't bad at third.
I like the fact that this guarantees he won’t play short, if nothing else
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
he's actually best at playing third base
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
eh, he was killing the ball
had already earned the nod to be starting 1b in toronto beginning next year, but wasn’t going to get called-up till later in the year anyway, maybe not till sept, so they have him hitting a little differently now to put backspin on the ball, get more loft and carry on those scorching liners, sort of how apu went from a line-drive hitter to a homer hitter. plus the half-hour of defensive drills before each game detracted from his hitting a bit, but improved his defense considerably. his old teammate ike davis is doing fine, and he was never the hitter that walrus is.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Agreed
I, for one, was not upset at all with the deal because I think he’s going to end up being Daric Barton with a few more homers, who has value as a first baseman, but probably won’t ever be better than league average WAR there.
He was never going to cut it at 3B in the big leagues, and will probably end up being a DH by the time he’s 28 if he’s valuable with the bat.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
But. . .
Barton is still young enough to turn into Kevn Youkilis, who would be above-average even as just a 1B.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Youkilis. Euclis. The Greek God of Walks.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I just don't see that happening.
For one thing, he doesn’t have the positional flexibility that Youkilis has, because he can’t play 3B and definitely shouldn’t play in the outfield.
Second, there’s no way Barton becomes a 25-30 HR power hitter without steroids. And steroids are illegal and tested for. He hit 52 homers in 1961 AB’s in the minor leagues and has topped out at 9 in his only full season in the big leagues. I mean, power may come later on, but he’s certainly not turning into a 30 homer slugger any time soon. He’s Nick Johnson with a worse OBP and less shitty injury luck.
Wallace has a chance to be a Mark Grace type of player if he can manage to play good defense at first. He’ll hit .290-.310, 15-20 HR’s, and get on base at a .360-.370 clip. If you were a team with nobody at first base, that’s not bad, but if you have Albert Pujols there, who could hit those numbers blindfolded swinging the wrong end of the bat, you’re a trade commodity.
FWIW, those numbers play very well at 3B, but not very well at 1B, which is why a lot of teams lamented on him not being able to hack it at 3B in the long term — his bat just doesn’t translate as well there. Same with Zach Cox, except he’s athletic enough to be a league average defensive second baseman, by most scouts’ opinions, if he can’t hack it at 3B.
I don’t see any of those guys becoming Kevin Youkilis (Maybe Zach Cox, who might have the best stick of the three of them).
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
um,
cox is more valuable at 2B than 3B. especially assuming freese is at least league average with the bat
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Maybe -- scouting reports are divided on that subject
and I’ve been reading a lot of them lately.
Most think he can put up enough pop to be an above average third baseman and that his quickness and arm would play well over there. The 2B talk came from a couple of scouts who don’t see his power numbers being impressive but are more impressed with his athleticism in the field.
Generally, assuming he can field both positions in a league average manner, he’d be more valuable as a second baseman because power hitting second baseman are harder to find.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm worried about his power potential.
This reminds me that I still need to do a final wrap of the draft. Was that really three weeks ago? Time flies.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Yes
most scouts are from what I’ve read. Which is why most see him as a gap power hitter playing second base in the big leagues. Similar to Daniel Descalso, as a matter of fact, with a bit more power potential.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
this still doesn't sound like first round upside to me
I don’t know what I’m missing about Zack Cox, but the idea that Daniel Descalso with power wants top-ten money does not computer.
He's shown power in the past
Last year, he hit for more power, but also a lower average and more K’s
This year, he consciously changed his approach to make more contact and K less, so less of his power showed
If he can find some sort of balance, he’ll be a valuable player
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I can pretty easily see it
A Pedroia type ultimate ceiling is pretty reasonable as an upside no? .300+ hitter 15 bombs + plate discipline and defense and that’s damn valuable.
Not afraid to nitpick
well, yeah, if he's dustin pedroia
what are the chances of that? and can he play even near the defense or run the bases like the little guy?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
.305 .370 .461 is very attainable
Maybe not the +10ish defense, but he’d be very valuable if he can pull that sort of a line off, which given the scouting reports doesn’t seem too extreme.
Not afraid to nitpick
i could see him hitting that
i just am not sold it will be at second base, which would be awesome, even if he’s a little below average, like skip. it’s still ok in left, but we have someone there, in which case he would still have trade value, though i’m not sure it would be quite as high as the walrus had.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
my concern is that his upside invoves him being able to hit
like a front-line player at a position to which he’ll have to be moved from lower on the defensive spectrum. Pedroia began his career as a shortstop.
yeah, to me if you cannot stick at third
and it’s not because of arm strength, then how the hell do you play second? i’m still hearing he’s a possible left-fielder.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I don't think it's because he can't stick at third defensively
The offense might be the limiting reactant there. He has enough athleticism, per most report, to play 2nd, so if his bat plays better there, why not?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
well, if he didn't have the lateral quickness
at third, which was the knock, i just don’t know what range he will have at second. maybe he just doesn’t have the initial reaction time for third but makes up for it with athleticism which is why some think he’s better suited for second. hey, we’ll find out.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Can I get a link to the lateral quickness thing?
I don’t think i’ve ever read that about him, but I might be very wrong
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
have no idea of the link
it was all over during the draft period, though. i probably read 5 or 6 consenting opinions on it from various sites and scouts/evaluators. and arkansas seemed to agree. even roto had a blurb on it, about how he could well be destined for left field. can you access old rotos, because they probably give a source, which could lead you to others.
anyway, this is why i’m leery of him moving up the defensive spectrum, whereas as danup noted, pedroia moved down.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
There are absolutely no reservations about him playing third in the majors defensively
Most scouts think he would be a plus third baseman with the glove. Every scouting report I’ve read really likes him at third base defensively, they just don’t think he’s going to be able to hit with enough power to stay there, and that’s a legit point.
He’s athletic enough to move him to second base where he’ll be slightly above average defensively, but with the potential to be a .300 hitter with 15+ homers every year. His bat will play better at second base, and that’s why most scouts have suggested he might move there. It has nothing to do with defense.
I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but it’s not accurate from any scouting report I’ve read about him.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
So. . .
he’s basically Placido Polanco?
I’d take that at 2B or 3B, honestly. Granted, 3B is a more traditional power position, but I tend to think that kind of analysis is overrated.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 30, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Polanco with legit home run power.
And probably better on base skills.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
there was plenty of scouting opinion
contrary to what you read at draft time – i’d say what i read was 50-50 on this, maybe slightly more on the negative, as some suggested he may end up in left.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Do you have this sourced?
Because I’ve not seen it. That’s all I’m saying — I don’t know where you’ve gotten your information, if you could provide it that would be great.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
well, at that time i was going from
link to link, as one article invariably led to another. the only thing i remember clearly was the roto thingy on veb front page within a day or so of the draft noting the differences of opinion and the thought he could end up in left, and it likely led me to one of the sources to begin with, as it generally attributes its sources. don’t know if you can get archived rotos or not, but i know there was a lot of discussion, obviously, on it at the time in the threads, and i remember citing roto in the comments, and from there perhaps some other sources. i could search those threads on veb to find the comment on roto’s take and that might lead me to some others, but can’t right now as my sister is in town and having to head to the quarter in a few to meet her, but tonite i will give it a shot.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
rotoworld says:
However, his defense at third base is rather rough and he might end up in the outfield.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=6220
by brackenthebox on Jul 2, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
ha, thanks
i’ll see what else i can come up with – forgot all about it in a haze of 10 consecutive hours within harrah’s casino with a sister who loves to play poker. it was freezing too, which may have numbed my brain.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
danupbaby typo:
does not computer
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 30, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Descalso with power and a slightly better batting average would look something like .290/.360/.480, which looks awfully similar to this guy, and he’s a borderline HOF player as a second baseman. I don’t think Cox has that type of home run power, but I could definitely see him hitting 15-20 per season in his prime while raking 40+ doubles every year.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Hmmmm. . .
Are you saying that the Greek God of Waks is/was juicing?
Why would you say that Barton couldn’t become Youkilis? If anything, Youkilis showed even less power in the minors than Barton did.
Barton has slugged 398 in 1138 major league plate appearances before turning 25. . . Youkilis slugged 413, 405, 429, and 453 in the majors at ages 25, 26, 27, and 28 respectively
Barton slugged 455 in 2378 minor-league PAs. . . . Youk slugged 439 in 1814 minor-league PAs despite being anywhere from 3-5 years older than Barton at the same level.
If anything, I’d say that the first-glance statistical analysis would say that Barton is more likely to develop into a power hitter than Youkilis was.
Granted, it’s much more relevant to look at their swings, physiques (although they are similar size-wise – neither of them will be selling jeans), etc. than to look at stats for a question like this, but the stats, and more importantly, Barton’s youth, are in Barton’s favor.
That Mark Mulder gift just keeps on giving.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure...but you also have to look at the leagues they played in during their minor league careers.
Barton played in mostly hitters parks during his minor league career, and Youk played in mostly pitchers parks.
Youkilis also was the definition of a “late bloomer”, but I’m not sure you can say that about Barton. When watching him I have a hard time believing that he’s going to get a lot better than he is right now.
I stand by my point about positional flexibility, which makes Youkilis a much more valuable player.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Regarding park effects. . .
What about their major-league careers? Barton has had to play his short major league career in a pitcher’s park, Youk had had the benefit of playing his in Fenway.
Youkilis has played a grand total of 148 innings in the OF scattered over 20 games in his career (maybe 3% of his career) and roughly 30% of his games at 3B. He’s admittedly average at the hot corner. I’m not saying that Barton will ever become a better player than Youkilis. . . I’m merely saying that he could easily become the hitter that Youkilis is, and if he does, he would be an above-average 1B.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Not according to b-ref
it has Barton as 6-0, 215 and Youk as 6-1, 220.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
youk sure looks a hell of a lot thicker than barton
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He's had 5 more years of eating. . .
FWIW.
And he can afford a richer diet, thanks to his thicker bank account.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The list stats are never very close
Just look at the guys, Youkilis is taller and thicker.
Not afraid to nitpick
not if you're me and a big fan!!
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
TIme for a trade for Dan "Hands of Stone" Uggla?
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
Is peter gammons ok?
pgammo (Peter Gammons)
P
X M o00
3 minutes ago from txt
Think it’s a pocket dial, or is the guy having a stroke?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Gammons
is tweeting in code. The recipient knows what it means.
And it has something to do with the latest Cliff Lee rumor.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 29, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I know wtf is that all about?
Is this like Burn After Reading coming true?
by jd is legend on Jun 29, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll reply with a no.
Sorry no one else is paying attention to these repeated questions.
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
d-dee would have more respect for you if your answer contained "DGAF"
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
more than ever I desperately need to learn
how to fast-forward when watching a game on archive via MLB-TV.
I missed the game, live, but stayed up to mid-morning to watch a re-play, wading thru the goose-eggs,etc. To make a long story short, I finally got the the bottom of the ninth; saw LaRussa tossed, Yadi’s single, Boog’s single, and the call for a relief pitcher.
But as Heilman was taking warm-up tosses, the picture glitzed, then the re-load circle of arrows appeared, and suddenly it had re-wound somehow to the pre-game stuff. (the feed had started all over)
I knew the climax was going to be weird because it was the bottom of the order, Garcia and Wainer involved, and mostly because the boxscore showed no RBIs to account for the three runs.
Can someone PLEASE help me learn to fast forward when watching an archive game? I don’t see any commands to do this.
If it makes any difference I have the cheapo package of MLB-TV (ie not Premium); I use Firefox, on XP, and have cable isp
You can just click "Jump to Inning" I believe
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
yeah
just click on the “jump to inning” button and you can go directly to the start of whatever inning or half inning you want
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks, but grrrrr
I don’t SEE anything like a jump to inning command; that’s my trouble..Where is it?
you have to move the mouse around so that that control panel with the pause button comes up
it should be on the upper right of that
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
did you get it?
i don’t know why, but occasionally mine starts over too, so just jump back to your inning.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
mine did that last night
I had to jump to the inning again
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I still can't find any commands to jump inning
roll the mouse does nothing; maybe my ‘settings’ are wrong
it's kinda hard to spot
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
if you have that box open with the day's games and archives
close that, then run the cursor around the bottom right and a jump to inning should pop up. it’s not a premium feature, so you have it.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
salas called up
and freese to dl
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
that sucks
this is related back to rolling his ankle on third base right?
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
They called up a pitcher?
With RFL down, are we seriously going with a three man bench of Stavinoha, Miles and LaRue? I almost can’t stand to see that in print.
Yes.
Seriously. We are.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
And
Right fielder Ryan Ludwick remains several days away from returning to the lineup because of a calf strain.
I really don’t get it. I feel like there are so many games where the team is not put in the best position to succeed because of these sorts of decisions. How many bullpen arms do we need? Yet now we are likely to have Carp pinch hit or pinch run? Maybe we will get Soup back out there running. I remember how well that turned out in the 2004 WS.
does anyone view last night's game as a possible morale boost?
sure, they didn’t really play that well, or even deserved to win (although it helped that they were getting people on base in the 9th to take advantage of those errors, thanks d-backs bullpen!). they just seemed so happy after the game, like something broke their way for once. I think this could be a changing point.
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions
i sure hope it is
because the cards, of late, have played so-so baseball. that’s not all bad, except for the fact that the reds are hanging in there.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
It could be
games wins like last night can sometimes have that effect. After it appearing we were going to lose on a fluke play (plus some non-strike calls (LaRoche)), we came back and won in a very improbable fashion. OTOH, our offense is still worrisome and we may be down to only one ace, at least temporarily. Here’s hoping they can at least back Waino tonight against D-train.
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 29, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
plus it featured a rare Tony getting ejected moment
maybe the troops will rally
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
just keep it close against the d'backs and they will find a way to blow it
remember the balk off?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
here's the thing about the man stew
as early as a week ago, I scoffed at anyone suggesting that the man stew was too loose. then I pick up three different reports of zany shenanigans (where’s the FSM camera?!!) before games.
personally, I think they’ve been so battered all season long — no real winning streaks to speak of, one-thing-after-another, so forth — that they’ve reverted to an episode of M*A*S*H.
long story short, I don’t know if it’s good or bad, if they’re too loose or not loose enough, but IMO there is no lasting emotional upswing from Wainwright taunting Carpenter at the dish in a close game to Wainwright getting into the most bizarre walk-off ever.
and the real question is whether the delta applies to the field or not; that’s a big ole ‘who knows?’
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Salas got the call...
… under the “injury-supercedes-the-ten-day-turnaround” rule, and he gets the call because Motte probably isn’t available today. We’ll probably see Greene by the weekend, as Ottavino is still around as backup to Suppan (Wednesday) or Hawksworth (Thursday), although they may have to keep him around till after Saturday if Carpenter isn’t able to go that day.
I think I'm going to puke
BJRains (B.J. Rains)
With Ryan Ludwick still unavailable, the Cardinals have a three-man bench tonight of Stavinoha, Miles and LaRue (unless one of them starts).
3 minutes ago from web
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
nice...
that bench is two things:
A. classic suckage
B. has tlr written all over it.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
yeah, the problem is busting it out of the box
which he would, and the damn thing would never get right. we could pinch-run jaime if luddy reached, but just running to first is the problem.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the answer to that
DL LUDDY! there is no reason that he should be on the roster right now if he’s not close to playing. What, it’s been 5 or so days since the injury and it may be another 5 or so until he can get back. This year has had the poorest roster/player management I’ve ever seen. I don’t know whether to blame it Mo or LaRussa, but it’s been pathetic. Mo and LaRussa have done absolutely nothing to truly give this team a chance to succeed with all this BS. It’s extremely frustrating how poorly this team is being run.
RFL for GG!
if they DL him it's 15 days retroactive to his last appearance
isn’t he expected to only miss another couple days?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
well my point was more that he should have been DL'ed as soon as he got the strain
Should not have stayed on the bench if not available to contribute
RFL for GG!
In case you haven't seen it,
here is a great write up from BtB. Not only does it confirm Yadi’s sheer dominance, but LaRue is a pretty good defender as well. He better be, considering his bat.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial
With that bat (.199 wOBA), he must be something more than "pretty good."
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
he's looked good the last two games
but he’s not so hot, especially at receiving the pitch in a manner to get a strike called, which he really sucks at.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the guy who shall not be named
apparently would like to play here again (apologies if nexdef’d)
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Oh, you mean Dan Haren?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
The last time we played the DBags
He said something to the effect of wanting to return to St. Louis in a pregame interview with Shannon
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
that would be cool and all
but how the hell can we get him back? seems just as unlikely (or more unlikely?) as a Cliff Lee deal
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see it happening any time soon
and I for one, would rather not give up our #1 prospect for the second trade deadline in a row
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
ditto
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be pretty ironic though
if gave up miller for haren, miller goes on to have a great career in the majors and we spend the next 6 years talking about the pitcher who shall not be named 2.0
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
even the suggestion of that is a bad idea
considering we’ve already had one go-around of that
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
that was the point
the irony of haren being the mulder this time around…
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
you can't let the fact that one player got injured
stop you from making future deals. that said, i wouldn’t take a chance on haren – maybe too similar to mulder in that we’d be acquiring him after he’s already started to show signs…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Mulder getting injured has nothing to do with it. . .
the fact was that his peripherals all screamed out that his career was on the downswing at best, and that he was hurt at the worst.
That was a bad horrible trade in foresight, a horrible atrocious trade in hindsight.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
then we agree
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
is his velocity the same?
he’s still good, just that he’s likely peaked.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
and at his peak, 2 and 3 years ago, does that hold?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
he's lost about a mile an hour since he was an athletic
coinciding with a switch from a slider to something fangraphs calls a cutter, but his peak seems pretty clearly to be 2008 and 2009, and aside from a (high and probably not permanent) change in his home run rate he’s been basically the same pitcher in 2010.
ok, and i know that ballpark doesn't help matters
but it didn’t seem to hurt him so much in the past. he did throw a couple cutters last night, particularly one to k holliday, that were rivera-like, and he does credit going to a cutter for a lot of success once he added it. i’m just not sure i’d want his contract, as reasonable as it appears, instead of the picks lee would bring.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i wouldn't trade for haren
but i would for lee. haren would be a much easier get, though.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Given their contracts,
why is that?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
well, lee will be the number one target
so bidding of prospects for him will escalate beyond what we have to offer. this is because he is the better pitcher and requires no commitment going forward and comes with picks attached. with haren you assume his contract, and that cuts out a lot of teams, including us.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
[indoor voice]
this is where you fire up the van…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Why would he make that comment
when we were playing the untuckers?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Holliday redux?
It seems to me we HAD to get Matt H in mid-season last year, and via similar arguments really had no better choice than to sign him to the expensive long-term deal we did, for this year and beyond. This was, and is, sometimes a thing that gives me reservations in my stomach, but the NEED always wins out.
I wonder if a starting pitcher ( a Haren, or a Lee, or others who have been mentioned ) has hit that HAVE TO zone yet?
Which reminds me: where the H is Penny? What’s the latest prognosis?
I’ve already dissed off Lohse as unusable this year, but the return of the bad penny might be a tonic
Penny back after ASB
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It's like getting an all-st.......
You know what, you know the rest
by jd is legend on Jun 29, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently they both were throwing a baseball after the game yesterday
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Potatos?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
by albrtfn on Jun 29, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dan Quayle?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
torneados?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Get off my ass.
tor·na·do
/tɔrˈneɪdoʊ/ Show Spelled[tawr-ney-doh] Show IPA
–noun, plural -does, -dos.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
nah,
we don’t really get those here. just a big storm that i guess has something to do with hurricane alex
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
i mean,
they happen, but nothing like central missouri where hearing tornado sirens is just a typical thursday afternoon in july
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
actually everyday at 5 in my hometown.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
You can set your watch by afternoon popup thunderstorms in the South in the summer
It’s amazing. Clearest blue sky you’ve ever seen in the morning, 15-20 minute storm around 5 or 6 in the afternoon, then it all clears back up. Every day.
by jd is legend on Jun 29, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
rains every day in new orleans
at least a 20-minute afternoon shower, then back to blue skies
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah, no kidding, as you speak
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I was told you guys get coconut sized hail though
destroys entire towns
by YesWeOquendo on Jun 29, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Zumaya had a non-displaced fracture of his Olecron (tip of the elbow)
So apparently you aren’t supposed to throw 100 mph like 600 times in a 2 month span?
Not afraid to nitpick
We were ALL about to jump on your for that misspelling. Really.
by dronemc on Jun 29, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
From what I gather
It’s really not that serious in terms of his career long term, 4 month recovery and full range of motion comes back, and usually bone breaks heal stronger.
Not afraid to nitpick
Long term, though, it looks like he has the classic "Inverted W"
Which could explain the injuries he’s had, but not necessarily this one
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
That's good to hear.
It wasn’t pretty seeing it last night.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
yeah, i had to watch that inning on archive
the catcher (laird?) said he heard it snap. blyleven had just finished saying how important it was for detroit to have a healthy zumaya, and then boom.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
and speaking of zumaya
he’s done for teh season
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
that was pretty obvious last night, if you saw it
the only question was if it was career-ending.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
ouch.
so, in short, is his career done?
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Olecron is one of the Decepticons.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jun 29, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like medicine my grandmother would probably take.*
*Stop taking and immediately contact your doctor if you exhibit the following symptoms: headache, diarrhea, nausea, upset stomach, signing scrappy players that no one else wants, hallucinations, lack of sleep, luggage, painful urination, or shortness of breath.
by Cardfanintherock on Jun 29, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He broke a bone by throwing hard?
Wow. Dude, mix in a 95 once in awhile.
Good news though. I hoped that it was just hurting like hell and not a guaranteed career-ender.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
the scary thing is Al was talking about this happening in one of his "in the old days" moments
I cringed at his description.
I don’t recommend watching the actual footage.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
^a few games ago
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
there's something incredibly disconcerting
about watching a grown man cry over pain
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I can't remember the pitcher....maybe for the Pirates a couple years ago,
whose forearm literally snapped during a delivery. It was the most painful thing I had seen happen to someone since LT broke Joe Theisman.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
After reading, it was the same bone
as Dravwecky. Happened to Saunders twice though.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Didn't Dravecky's do that too?
Of course, his was due to his bone cancer.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Nevermind, his was the upper arm.
Also, braintwinned.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Found it, I think.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Welp, I'm never throwing a baseball again
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Also...
PS: Archi Cianfrocco FTW!
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
Always cheer for Andorra
The forgotten third Iberian country.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
They've only won 3 games ever, currently ranked 201 in the world
by jd is legend on Jun 29, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That's better than San Marino at 202
Yet, they own the record for fastest goal scored.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
England.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
I dunno I like Portugal for some reason
Can’t really put a finger on it. I’m not crazy about Ronaldo. I’ve never been to Portugal (though I’d like to). I dunno. Just was kinda hoping they’d make a deep run.
by jd is legend on Jun 29, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you a younger brother?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Worst. Lineup. Ever.
ryan ss
lopez 3b
pujols 1b
holliday lf
stavi rf
molina c
winn cf
wain p
miles 2b
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
wow.
i thought tony couldn’t come up with anything worse. sorry waino… feel real bad for ya dude.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Wow in this case the batting the pitcher 8th
isn’t really strategy
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
waino should bat 9th, you're right
if we want a second-leadoff scenario.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'm not watching tonight.
I couldn’t take it. That lineup is absolute rubbish. This is the second start in a row by Wainwright where TLR seems to be trying to lose.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think I'm going to take the dog to the lake.
That should be more entertaining.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
If the weather is as nice where you are as it is here,
it will be much more entertaining and enjoyable.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
It's finally summer in MT.
88 and sunny. And a pleasant 0% humidity.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Of course now that I look,
we’re due for T-storms this evening.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
hopefully waino rebounds and pitches a good game
last one was on him, regardless of the lineup.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
is randy flores not in basball anymore?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
it's Willis
and colby has been a walk machine most all of the season. Place him in CF and bat him lead-off please.
RFL for GG!
Well, it could be worse. LaRue could be starting.
Unless Pujols puts on the cape tonight, we’re f’ed.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 29, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
this feels like the 09 cards
bad lineup all over again – but worse. if tony pulls this crap this weekend…. i’m going to be super pissed.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Who besides Raz could play?
And do we KNOW he isn’t hurt/sick/whatever?
If Raz was starting, and Winn was not, would you all not be saying the same thing?
Freese is hurt. Luddy is hurt. Molina > Larue. Skip, while hitting better, has still struggled this year. That leaves Raz as the lone guy to complain about. You’d think we had AP and Holliday on the bench for no reason.
This all goes back to what everyone's been harping on
for the last week. Roster management.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
You do realize it's possible to call up players, right?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
You do realize it isn't that easy, right?
There are guys coming up. None of them deserve to play over anybody starting tonight, save MAYBE Miles. Yes, I said Miles. Hate him all you want, he’s been taking good AB’s lately. That is a fact, not an opinion.
Prove he's been taking good ABs lately.
Otherwise it is an opinion and not a fact.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
maybe what he means is that he's been taking good at bats away from better players
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 14 recs
If I could rec this 100 times
I would.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 29, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
bad miles!
stop taking those at bats!
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
is he actually stealing the wooden bats?
hoarding them like a squirrel.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
he's selling them out of his apartment
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to come back to this.
Do you have any concept of what a fact is? There is nothing in your post that even resembles an objective statement. There are statements that can be verified like he’s swinging at 25% more balls out of the zone than an average major league hitter. Unfortunately, those FACTS, don’t mesh with your OPINION that he’s taking good at bats.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
by azruavatar on Jun 29, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
rec'd
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
I remember on the pitch after he missed the sign for the hit and run
He swung at a pitch that looked like it might have been headed straight for his head. I was completely baffled by how a major leaguer could be fooled into swinging at that pitch. Only Aaron Miles could possibly react to a fastball at his head by taking a hack at it rather than getting the hell out of the way.
YET.....
He’s been getting hits on hard hit balls, and his manager, one of the best in the history of the game, has been playing him more. Partly due to injuries, and partly b/c of the way he has been swinging the bat.
TLR or azruavatar? Haha…..funny.
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 29, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh...
Aaron Miles (2010): .280/.308/.320/.628
Skip Schumaker (since Miles joined the team): .317/.362/.397/.759
Interesting. It appears that Skip “takes better AB’s” based on representation of actual numbers (i.e. “facts”) and not some crazy shit you came up with in your head (“opinions”).
Claiming to know what TLR thinks about this whole situation is really not a good defense of your facts, it’s actually claiming to know the opinions of someone else, something you’ve complained about to the rest of us many times before.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Oh dear.
Prove that Miles is taking good at bats. First, define “good at-bat.” Provide some objective standard too, such as “at-bat ending in hard hit ball,” or “X number of pitches,” or something else like that anyone can agree is reasonable. Then, you can demonstrate that Miles has been taking good at-bats and call it a fact. Until then it is absolutely one hundred and ten f’ing percent opinion, which is synonymous with “baseless assertion” or “made up statement” or “product of my own imagination.” But certainly not “a fact.”
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 29, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm a sucker for anything beginning with "oh dear"
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Because my opinion.....
That is based on what I’ve SEEN…..cannot possibly be right?
Good AB. Not giving them away. Not grounding out weekly to first on the first pitch you see. Hitting the ball hard (you really going to say he hasn’t been doing that?). Getting on base. Making the pitcher work.
A lot goes into it. Everybody wants to look at the sexy stats like slugging or OPS, but it takes all types to win games, and make solid ball clubs. That is why All-Star teams generally never live up to their billing. If talent is ALL that mattered, the Yanks or Sox would win 99% of the World Series’.
Miles has been helping the club in recent weeks. He is hitting the ball hard, and taking what to me, are good AB’s.
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 29, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
See, you're causing problems
You’ve still provided no operational definition.
“Not giving them away.”
“Making the pitcher work.”
By what objective standard do you define these things? They’re just words until you give them some backbone. Is work throwing a lot of pitches or is it sweat a lot or what exactly?
“Not grounding out weakly on the first pitch you see.”
“Getting on base.”
Those are better. Batted ball data and P/PA and OBP measure those things, and stats are really just fancy notepads, recording actual events in a numerical fashion. I guess we can define a good at bat as a high number of pitches resulting in someone reaching base and/or hitting a LD. That’s fair, right? It’s not perfect because you can hit a flair that results in a hit and you’re on base, but hey at least we have something common to discuss.
And for the record, I never said that what you’ve seen cannot possibly be right. Please, point out where I said that. Actually, I’ll do it for you. You can’t, because I never said it. What I said was that opinions and facts are not the same thing. Opinions are things that are merely said, like “Man, I prefer ribeye to porterhouse,” and frankly I don’t give a flying fuck about anyone’s opinions. However, when someone tries to pass off their opinion as a fact, well, that shit doesn’t fly because it’s irritating at best and a dangerous habit at worst. If it is indeed your opinion that Miles is taking good at-bats, then I’m perfectly happy to let you go off and believe that. I really don’t give two cents. However, what you said was that it was a fact that Miles is taking good at bats.
That is a fact, not an opinion.
Now, when you say something is fact you have to back it up with some hard evidence to support your claim, and what you saw watching a game frankly doesn’t cut it because two people can watch the same damn thing and come up with two completely different conclusions. You ever watched a movie with a buddy and had completely different interpretations and reactions? Yeah, it’s like that. I’ve not been particularly impressed by what Miles has done based on the eye test, but the thing is that I’m smart enough to realize that my eyes and memory don’t work worth a damn and don’t try to use them as hard evidence to support factual claims. I turn to data because it’s objective… 2=2 regardless of what I want to believe.
Aaron Miles has a 4.5% LD rate with the Cardinals. I personally don’t give a damn how hard you hit the ball on the ground, it’s a much, much easier out than a LD. He’s sporting a nifty 59.1% GB rate. So, he’s hitting no line drives and just beating the ball into the ground, and because he’s slow that’s no good. His OBP with the Cards is .308. Oh my, that’s bad! His p/pa is really bad, ~3.65. So, he’s not taking many pitches, he’s not getting on base, and he’s not hitting the ball on a line. Using your own fucking standards, he’s not taking good at bats. So your opinion has no basis in reality. Of course, this is all such a small sample size that it’s not predictive of anything and he could rebound and start smoking the ball in the next month. But we’re not talking about roster decisions we’re talking about recent results and his recent results have not been good, a statement that can be defended by valid evidence.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 30, 2010 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Not without any objective evidence of any kind.
Objective evidence: Facts
Subjective evidence: Opinions
You can’t claim that one is the other. It’s true that your subjective evidence of something could be proven objectively, but that required homework that you apparently don’t want to do. Essentially you’re saying we should just trust that what you see when you watch games is actually happening and is “factual”, while what the rest of us see isn’t true. That’s an extremely arrogant statement to make considering the company you’re in here at VEB.
To defend yourself you state that “Why would TLR play him if I’m not right?”, which isn’t an objective defense of anything because TLR plays crazy lineups all the time for no apparent reason.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
but that's the point, if lud and freese are hurt, why isn't our best slugger in this lineup
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Semantics.
You really are a troll
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
why is that funny? he's our best slugger right now. he's one of the best sluggers IN BASEBALL.
if we have to replace ludwick with a bench guy, then rasmus needs to be in there.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
well
it’s him or Pujols
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't that the same logic you used to defend MIles last week?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
last week?
try 15 minutes ago
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
so the link did work?
i’m terrible at linking to comments
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
no...it looks pretty though.
I’m assuming you were linking to the same thing bgh quoted.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
and yes, just realize bgh had already linked to it
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
Also linking is easy.....
highlight the words that you want to use in your comment (which it looks like you did), click the chain in the comment box, and paste your link. Also, click the open in new window box.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i did all that
what i pasted was the timestamp of the comment i wanted to link too…thats correct, right?
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
Yeah, click on it first, then make sure the URL has a #xxxxxxxx at the end
That’s the correct link
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
you have to right click on the time stamp,
and select copy link location.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
also if you select preview,
you can click on your link and make sure it works before posting.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
thanks
i was copy/pasting the actual text of the timestamp instead of the location
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
It is funny to read your comment above from one minute earlier about Miles.
There are guys coming up. None of them deserve to play over anybody starting tonight, save MAYBE Miles. Yes, I said Miles. Hate him all you want, he’s been taking good AB’s lately. That is a fact, not an opinion.
And then read this comment:
Our best slugger?
LOL.
He may be slugging the best, that doesn’t make him our best slugger.
Aaron Miles is the best option of anyone in the system because he is taking good PAs right now and should therefore play. Colby Rasmus may be slugging the best right now, but that doesn’t mean he should play.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 29, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
his labyrinthine genius cannot be fathomed
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha classic
if this doesn’t clinch the argument, nothing will.
Greene should be up, and he should be playing tonight. Colby should be playing as well. I don’t care if it’s vs a Lefty when the lineup is this weak due to injury to begin with, the best players need to play. Plus Randy Winn is a terrible RH anyway, so we gain NOTHING with him in CF over Colby
If Colby can't handle 2010 Dontrelle Willis, he's not an everyday player.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Rasmus is actually hitting LHPs this year
According to the splits on B-R he is has an .812 OPS against LHPs and a 1.162 OPS in games where the starter was a LHP.
This has been well-established
It’s absurd that he apparently can’t handle Dontrelle “Shell of my Former Self” Willis.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
And his numbers against lefties are trending down.
But don’t let me interrupt the Colby-orgy.
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 29, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
without having done any research, in my opinion, there is just no way this is true
he was bad against LHP last year. he’s good against LHP this year. that sounds like they are trending up, not down.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Really?
I’m sure you have some objective evidence to actually prove this is that case?
Oh, wait, you mean the numbers say EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jun 30, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What does that link
have to do with my comment?
Colby scorched lefties early this season, at a rate that is not sustainable for him. Thus, he is trending down. Where is the bottom? Who knows. Certainly higher than last year, I’d imagine. Maybe back to career minor league levels?
I'm done doing your homework for you.
The link shows you the pitchers he’s faced this season. If you sort it by OPS, and then click on the left handed pitcher’s name, you’ll get the date that he faced them.
Go ahead, and you’ll see that he’s hitting lefties really well for the month of June, which is not “trending down”.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
you blow my bind
he went like 0-11 to start off the year… between that and Miles taking good ABs (seriously what ABs are you watching?), i wonder if you’re just blowing this stuff out you’re ass
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 30, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
re: "everyday player"
based on how he’s played so far, he should be an All-Star.
I had Royals fans asking me about Rasmus. Who is this kid, etc.
I absolutely agree
I guess my comment needed more sarcasm…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Did you come back with a snotty retort?
“He is Mr. Rasmus to you, sir.”
“A guy whose fire is burning in the outfield?”
“”http://www.amazon.com/Only-Homers-Christopher-Sports-Classics/dp/0316139874" target="new">The Kid Who Only Hit Homers."
“Power in human form.”
“The guy who, if he were to hit a home run off of you, you’d have to shake off the incredible urge to thank him.”
“Destroyer of worlds.”
Or, finally…
“The last person who asked that died of a broken heart as a 410 ft. bomb disappeared into the night sky.”
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 29, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
FIXED
Consists of a putter up the middle and a bloop double that never made it to the warning track.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
You are reaching.....
That is not even close to an apples to apples comparison.
Keep trying.
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 29, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right...
Colby Rasmus is and always will be a better baseball player than Aaron Miles.
However, your defense of Miles is exactly the opposite of your argument against Rasmus.
Or do you have problems with comprehending your own BS?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
This might literally be the worst lineup offensively we have put out all year
So in that sense, you could reasonably say it’s the “worst lineup ever.” It’s not literally the worst lineup possible or anything, but it’s quite possibly the worst lineup that has a chance of actually playing. I features Ryan, Stavinoha, and Miles. No Rasmus, no Ludwick. Winn, Molina, and Lopez aren’t exactly world-destroyers offensively right now either.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
But hey! Stav's not batting cleanup!
So there’s that
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
And I realize this is mostly due to injuries which is out of our control
but the roster could have some better back ups on it, and it still sucks even if there is nothing to be done about it. Sometimes people just need to say “this sucks!” and get it out of the system.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
it IS the worst lineup ever
because stav, miles, winn and lopez probably wouldn’t be starting on any other team. plus three out of those four (the crew minus lopex) are just awful players.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Winn is not even close
to being in the same category as 12 34.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
How the fuck is Lopez in that group?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
plus, let's give him a little more time to put it fully back together
before the injury nobody was complaining. he’s hit some good balls now recently, but a lot of them have been at-em.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I don't have much of a problem with Winn or Lopez with on the team or getting starts
in general
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I still think Lopez should probably starting at second
well, before Freese was DLd
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Drop the lopez hate please... he would start on quite a few teams.
Also, I don’t think Winn is awful. He’s not good, or even average, but not awful.
Still a terrible, horrible, no good, bad lineup.
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
Indeed
Winn has been a rather pleasant signing considering our health issues (Jose Canseco moment aside). And Lopez is actually, oh, what’s the word….DECENT?
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
a bargain, too, some might say
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'm glad you said that
Now they’ll go out and hit ridiculously (I’m predicting 11 runs, 19 hits), and Tony will think “Hey! This might work!”
It's a question of lineup construction.
When Freese was placed on the DL today, the Cardinals called up Salas to take his spot on the 25-man roster. TLR’s need to protect his bullpen by carrying too many relievers has been a persistent detriment to the team’s on-field success for going on two years now. With Luddy out of action, TLR’s need for so many relievers has left us with a bench of LaRue, Miles, and Stavinoha. This is horrendous roster management by the St. Louis Cardinals. There is a better option at catcher in AAA right now than LaRue. There is a better option at utility infielder in AAA right now in Tyler Greene. There is a better option for RF in AAA right now in Allen Craig. And any one of those three would have been a better call-up for this team’s chances at winning than Salas.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Are you fucking kidding me?
Are you really trying to put the over-worked pen on TLR?
Carp is getting older, and while still a monster, cannot be expected to be the work horse we’ve known him to be.
Waino is fine.
Garcia is young, still relatively fresh from arm surgery, and seems to have hit at least a min-wall in recent starts. Have to protect him a bit, no?
Penny has been out with an injury. Was that injury TLR’s fault? No. The replacement is Suppan. A guy that has been better than even I could have imagined, while making a bunch of you ’tards look really, really foolish. But alas, he is old, and not in starter shape just yet. No better options though.
Lohse has been injurred. Was that TLR’s fault? No. The replacements are guys that simply put, aren’t ready to start full time at the ML level. Have to protect that, no?
But yea, it’s TLR’s fault that we may need the extra arm in the pen for a week.
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 29, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
FFS!!!! Do you ever bother to look anything up?
Hardly. The only guys who’ve worked back to back days since June 19th are Boggs (once), Reyes (once), Miller (once), Franklin (once, both save situations). We’re not burning down our bullpen any more than any other team in the majors in the last 2 weeks. Again, facts are awesome. Your opinions are ill-informed at best.
A guy that has been better than even I could have imagined, while making a bunch of you ’tards look really, really foolish.
This is hilarious. Soup’s started three games and pitched 13.2 innings, an average of just over 4 innings per start. He’s walked 4 hitters per 9 innings and striking out 5 hitters per 9 innings and has an FIP of 4.82. Sure, that’s better than the Suppan from Milwaukee, but it’s worse than most other conceivable options that the team had when they signed him. Considering TLR openly wanted Suppan, I do blame him for our bullpen getting more work than usual, because the fucking guy isn’t even getting out of the FIFTH FUCKING INNING, which leads to more work for the bullpen. Don’t let facts get in the way of a perfectly good rant though.
Carp is getting older, and while still a monster, cannot be expected to be the work horse we’ve known him to be.
Funny, TLR and Duncan seem to disagree with you on this. As you can see by the game logs, Carp has thrown 7+ innings in every 11 of his 17 starts this year and went at least 6 innings in 16 of the 17. He’s also thrown fewer than 100 pitches only once since the beginning of May. Clearly they aren’t babying his arm. He’s going out doing his job every 5th day.
Garcia is young, still relatively fresh from arm surgery, and seems to have hit at least a min-wall in recent starts. Have to protect him a bit, no?
Hmmmmm. Looks like they have been protecting him in terms of pitch counts. He’s been above 100 only 5 times all year, topping out at 111 a couple of starts ago. He’s also getting to the sixth inning in every start but 2, meaning that he’s been fairly efficient, which is a lot more than I can say for Jeff fucking Suppan.
Jeff fucking Suppan is hurting our bullpen more than any other starter on the current Cardinal roster. So, yes, I blame TLR for a pen that is getting more work, because Suppan was his idea.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Posting high-4.00 FIPS?
Like, exactly what Suppan’s doing?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 30, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
See below.
Suppan hasn’t been any better than Hawksworth or Ottavino were in their starts, and he’s throwing fewer innings per start than either of them.
Again — homework is essential so as to not look foolish.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
really?
that’s better than the Suppan from Milwaukee, but it’s worse than most other conceivable options that the team had when they signed him
like who?
i bashed the move, but i sure can’t think of anyone available to start pitching as soon as he was that could have put up these numbers
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Who:
Hawksworth: FIP of 4.87 in 2010.
Adam Ottavino: FIP of 4.85 in 3 starts. Went 18 innings over three starts, more than an inning and a half more than Suppan has given us each start so far.
Both of those guys were viable options. Were they good options? No, but neither was Suppan at the time he was signed. At least Ottavino has a future with the team and should be given a chance to prove himself.
If we didn’t like the internal options then we should have looked at making some type of trade, imo. I don’t see how Suppan really helps this team at all.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
you're the tard
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 30, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
no, you are man
you are a big ole tard (isn’t that word banned or something? i know ignorant is…)
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
WTF is that?
That’s a lineup for the ages right there.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 29, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
somebody needs to throw minime into a woodchipper
I keed, I keed
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess he's been hitting the ball too far
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
damn these young players and they're swinging hard and such!
too HR happy, even when they hit a HR the result is bad!
/Al
maybe its because he's only slugging the best.
when he is actually the best slugger, things will change.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Well, that decides it then.
I was debating whether to watch the game or cut off my thumbs with a hacksaw. I’m goin’ with the hacksaw.
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 29, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Why the fuck can't Skip play?
Am I missing something? It’s not like he’s been playing every day, why the hell would he need time off?
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
Well it's a lefty, so it's sort of understandable
But Colby’s resolved (read: regressed) those issues, so he DEFINITELY should be playing. Unless he’s hurt
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Heh. Sort of understandable to replace a poor hitter with the worst player in baseball due to handedness or stats against Dontrelle Willis.
Compared to Colby’s absence, though…I mean, that’s just unforgivable.
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
lefty.....
apparently skip nor colby can hit Dontrelle. Seeing as Dontrelle doesn’t throw strikes, this makes no sense.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
he had to run around in the outfield last night
got tired
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Tony must think that Willis is still an above average lefty
I can’t think of another reason why COlby and Skip aren’t starting. They have started against vastly superior lefties. If Tony really is thinking this way, then it is time he moves on.
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
This lineup vs. Dontrelle Willis
Stoppable force vs. movable object
by jd is legend on Jun 29, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You call that lineup a force?
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
No, it's the object
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Adam Wainwright reaches on force attempt, throwing error by Aaron Heilman. Jaime Garcia scores. Brendan Ryan to 3rd. Adam Wainwright to 2nd. None out.
I know that in Physics, "technically", all movement is a force.
But i don’t think Physics would argue with me if I said that our lineup was an exception.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Ok, yes, we're seeing a LHP
And yes, Skip doesn’t hit them well and Raz doesn’t hit them as well as he hits RHP (though a .356 wOBA vs. LHP isn’t bad either). Yeah, I get all that. But when Ludwick and Freese cannot play and Nick fuggin’ Stavinoha may end up playing, you suck it up and you play Rasmus. When you have to play Aaron Miles, well, at anytime, you suck it up and play Skip instead. I’m a big fan of examining splits and that kind of thing when planning out rosters and stuff, but sometimes you have to toss it out the window and play your best guys. Colby’s wOBA this month is .440 and I don’t give a flying damn about his K’s. Play the man for Pete’s sakes!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 29, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Imagine this possible lineup
Lopez 3B
Holliday LF
Pujols 1B
Rasmus CF
Molina C
Craig (or Winn) RF
Greene 2B
Waino P
Ryan SS
Just ponder for a sec how much better ofensively and defensively this lineup is. I’m looking at you Mo.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 29, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
now if only we can get Bernie to post this in his blog...
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
d'backs lineup
johnson 2B
abreu SS
upton RF
montero C
laroche 1B
reynolds 3B
parra LF
gillispie CF
willis P
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
never heard of the cf'er
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
billy, or was it dizzy?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
shouldn't our pitcher be hitting 5th tonight?
but to your point…the d’back lineup isn’t much better than ours, if at all
That doesn't really make me feel better
“The lineup being run out there by this team that’s 17 games under .500 and in last place in their division isn’t really much better than the Cardinals lineup.”
quite true
but at least when we trot out this mess of lineup we aren’t facing a good lineup. look, i’m trying to be optimistic here!
i think
our hate of tonight’s lineup will pass that of our hate the night when miles was signed.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
no signing miles lasts a whole season
this lineup lasts on night
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, maybe I'm slow for just finding this out and this is a really old joke by now...
but has anyone else noticed that all Youtube videos have a little soccer ball button at the bottom that plays the vuvuzela noise over the audio when you click it? I’m not sure if this is awesome or horrible.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
horrible
i’m sick of all the world cup crap, vuvuzelas, twitter trending and all.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
XENOPHOBE!!!!
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
That guy we gave a lot of money in the offseason to protect albert is dead to me...DEAD TO ME
Also
If you do street view for a location in South Africa, the little orange street view man holds a vuvuzela.
Please, don't tar an entire nation with the vuvuzela brush.
I assure you, some of us disapprove.
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
Anyone know where I can get a vuvuzela locally?
I want to buy some as gag motivators for my soccer teams. The best player of the game or practice gets to take the vuvuzela home.
the parents will love that
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
We were playing softball last week
And on the adjacent soccer field people had vuvuzelas and it was really really annoying.
bj rains reports that albert and yadi are having a talk with dan haren
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
good news, everyone
MLBSTLCardinals DYK- Last night the cards became the first team to score 2 pitchers in the same inning since the Pirates did it 5/27/74 vs SD. 24 minutes ago via web
and this hashtag exists:
http://twitter.com/search?q=%23FreeTylerGreene
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 29, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
+1
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 29, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
So... I had my first authentic All-Star vote ever.
I say authentic because this is the first year I voted for people who actually deserve to go, instead of just voting for Cardinals like I used to do. And boy… It sucked… Not voting for some of my favorite players sure sucks as hell. I had to go for Adrian over Albert, Olivo over Yadi, Werth over Colby and RFL… It was sad
I want the Walrus back...
um, I have to disagree
Werth over Colby? Seriously?
Werth: 2.1 WAR, .396 wOBA, .345 BABIP
Colby: 2.2 WAR, .399 wOBA, .343 BABIP
You don’t have to be a Cardinals fan to recognize that Raz has been better than Werth this season.
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
...I wouldn't say better
That’s almost exactly a wash
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
"almost exactly"
I’d tend to overrate Colby since he plays CF while Werth has mostly played the corners this year if i recall correctly
Anyway my point is if it makes you feel sad to vote Werth, why do it when you don’t need to feel guilty about voting for Rasmus instead, since you at least can clearly see he hasn’t been worse. Maybe my point got a bit muddled due to that self-serving last line there in my previous comment.
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
WAR has a positional adjustment
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
and park adjustments IIRC
the phillies home park definitely inflates his numbers, that and their lineup.
obviously you have
at least i think. i sure as hell hope not.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
well, our lineup is very
thurston/t greene/k greene-esk
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Thurston on St. Louis:
Now his goal is to get back to the level he was at last year, when he hit .225 with 17 doubles, four triples and 25 RBIs for the Cardinals in a place he called "the best baseball city he’s ever played in."
"There’s nothing like St. Louis," he said. "There’s a sea of red, they draw every day and everyone shows up to the games. It doesn’t matter what time of day, what day of the month. They’re there to support their team."
Apparently he didn’t hear the VEB boos.
or me saying
you suck thurston right after he made an error in cincy last year.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Wait, how could you boo him?
He hit for a great average and provided veteran presence and grit off the bench. Oh wait.
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
He's looking up at .225?
Seriously, I would LOVE to work with the guy and revise his swing. He’s got to be a HECK of an athlete to be able to manage what he does with that swing.
I actually prefer him over Miles
At least he had some sort of on-base skill
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Jun 29, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
not necessarily on the basepaths
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Fun fact:
Joe Thurston had a 10.7% BB% last year
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
it was what happened after.....
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This is all relative here
Thurston vs. Miles. At least one of them gets on base occasionally
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
By the way, there should've been MUCH more discussion today about the Russian spies
If they weren’t threatening the security of our nation, I’d suggest how badass that is
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Here's something to brighten the mood:
Carlos Matias pitched again for the DSL Cards yesterday. 8 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 11 K, 1 HR #hpgf about 6 hours ago via web
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm surprised that they've got him throwing innings
like that, I believe he went 8 in his previous start as well.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Only 6 baserunners though,
so it’s possible that he got to 8 innings in fewer than 100 pitches.
I also believe that they work the Latin players a little bit harder because they’re more conditioned for throwing. Most of them have grown up playing the game every day as kids, unlike most of the Rule 4 draftees, who played 3-4 different sports and had a television to watch, lol.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Really? I thought I read that he was signed,
and, obviously, throwing for the Cards DSL team.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
he's signed
but i believe the contract isn’t official until the identity/age process is completed, at which point he’ll get his visa to come stateside. mo or luhnow said they were looking at sometime in july probably.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
visa
supposed to be here soon, like july. perhaps a better prospect than miller?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Apparently, there's going to be an explanation
A rare look at how Tony picked the lineup for tonight, as we sit in as he puts pen to paper on the lineup card. 630pm on tonights pregame
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i'm not sure
if it will be worth it or not.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Link inside the block quote?
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i'm not living in a bee-infested neighborhood. ever.
if i was there, i’d move out right away. i hate bees.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Jason Motte?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I need to make sure all of my
tweet links are properly sourced.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
“Well, Ryan is our 2nd worst hitter, so let’s guarantee he gets the most at-bats. Lopez can hit so let’s put him 2. Pujols-Holliday—-I mean we had the commercial and all that shit 3-4. Did you see that home run from his knees? Stav 5th. Molina is my boy, 6th. Well Dontrelle Willis has had massive problems with throwing strikes, so you gotta figure you are only going to get one pitch to see in an at-bat, Colby might let that go so gotta go with Winn here. Waino is probably our 8th best hitter so he’s in the 8-hole. And Miles can’t hit so gotta make sure he doesn’t see an extra PA over someone who isn’t one of the worst hitters in the big leagues.”
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 29, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
That was awesome,
and wholly deserving of the rec I now bestow upon it.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 29, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
bingo.
a rec for you.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
Excellent
Or… TLR threw darts at a board, then discarded the results he didn’t like. You can’t discount that one.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 29, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I just saw the lineup card...
Is it wrong that I think Wainwright is the 3rd best hitter for us tonight?
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