So There's These
by DanUpBaby on Jun 28, 2010 4:39 AM EDT
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PrintDoes the hump day metaphor do anything for you? No? Well, whatever—that was the most deflating loss the Cardinals will be dealt all season, non-injury division, and I can't imagine many more coming close. Now we go downhill: consider this your depression Wednesday.
The Reds lost, so there's that. The Cardinals remain somewhat disappointing—a five on a scale of fantastic to fiery nightmare—and also half of a game behind a team that has its own set of lingering problems. Even if you're not sure the Cardinals are in a better position than the Reds, and I am, it's easy to draw parallels that suggest they're in the same position. Like the Cardinals their second best hitter, Scott Rolen, is a guy who had some vague all-world potential—in the past, and not Colby Rasmus's future—and is realizing it an a completely unexpected way. Like the Cardinals their shortstop isn't hitting; their most effective pitcher is a rookie whose peripherals aren't in keeping with his low, low ERA.
Leave the half a game out of it for a moment. If the Reds are going to finish ahead of the Cardinals, their potential problems need to perform better than the Cardinals' potential problems. That could happen, but I don't think we've seen any lapse in character or talent serious enough for an assumption that it will happen to be rational.
Albert Pujols and Colby Rasmus homered, so there's also that. Pujols is still having a truly poor season by his own standards, the worst since 2002, but he's not particularly far from 2007; this isn't yet a paradigm-shifting season, to mangle already-mangled business English. The really scary comparison, the Frank Thomas-at-30 fall from grace? The Big Hurt went from .347/.456/.611 to .265/.381/.480. Albert Pujols isn't there.
And Colby Rasmus—Colby Rasmus now has as many home runs as he hit in 2009. If he went zero for his next 50, he'd be hitting .231/.316/.473, compared to his .251/.307/.407 line in 2009. He's having a really great season. He's having a really, really great month; the ridiculous walk rate from April and May hasn't been around, but that's nine home runs.
Pessimism, if you want it, behind the jump. Jaime Garcia! He's not good enough to maintain a 2.27 ERA over the course of a season!
Jaime Garcia's not good enough to maintain a 2.27 ERA over the course of a season. His control hasn't been perfect all year, and as one of my favorite announcer cliches goes, if you allow walks to extend an inning it's additional chances for bad things to happen.
(Speaking of which, remember when Wilson Betemit was a good prospect? And even a good player? He was a perfectly cromulent hitter and a perfectly decent Scott Spiezio-type utility infielder for three years, but when he fell out of favor with the Yankees his AAA numbers didn't take a AAA bump; he just did the exact same thing he'd been doing at the major league level. Such are the perils of the international free agent mega-millions; Betemit is one of the few players this side of Joe Nuxhall with an age-15 season on Baseball Reference.)
There's a good kind of announcer cliche and a bad kind. The bad kind makes it seem like anything a player does, or a class of player does, is something that can and will destroy a team over the course of a long season. Jaime Garcia—he's a thrower, not a pitcher! The good kind expresses a truism and also gives variance and one-time mistakes its due. Well, if Jaime Garcia walks two consecutive mediocre hitters with two outs in the second inning, he's inviting bad things to happen. It doesn't mean it's a character failure, or a skill problem, it's just something that happened. In front of Wilson Betemit in the second inning of a Royals game. That one sucked.
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One of my favorite sayings...
Sucking sucks. LOBsters everywhere for two innings, then the big mistake, then the offense went to sleep. I was listening to the game in the car and after the second inning home run, I switched over to something else. It’s like you can see these games coming from this team. It is a fun team at times to watch, but I seem to have little faith in the offense making a game out of it when the pitcher is struggling. Here’s to a better series against Arizona!
TWSS?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Jun 28, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If so, I'd imagine it wouldn't continue for very long
Morale would improve pretty soon
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
sucking sucks
but i’d rather the team has rude awakenings like this than pull a 2009 late september-postseason stunt again because they’re not trying
also desensitizing the fans to implosions like this might make the players push less and hopefully fail less
not that all of this makes sense..
That's funny
And I understand exactly what you are talking about. I remember in 2006 railing to my husband that the Cardinals would never make it to the post season. They stunk. Everyone’s expectations were low.
It is just so frustrating. Taking the risk. Paying all that money for Holliday. Colby having a great season. Freese hitting better than expected. We should have this fantastic juggernaut team. It shouldn’t even matter that we have to see Miles bat DH. The Cards should be that good.
And so far this year, they remind me of our recently departed center fielder. When the pressure is on and it’s your turn to bat, fold like cheap tent.
Ok, I guess I should go now. Sorry to be so negative, but it is Monday and I’m at work.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
You can't trust that day
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Monday is the Aaron Miles of days
You know that its tgoing to come back* eventually, you just hope that it passes quickly with as little damage done as possible.
*back = resigned, put in the line-up, up to bat
by Cardfanintherock on Jun 28, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Everybody has problems
Check out the Phillies. Or the Rays. Or the Tigers. Or the Angels. Dodgers, too.
It’s just more bothersome because the Reds haven’t gone away yet.
I mean, how many teams can lose two of their starting pitchers for this long yet remain only a half game out of first?
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 28, 2010 9:27 AM EDT reply actions
*opens the can of worms*
it’s more bothersome because we’ve spent a lot of time losing winnable games. so when we do suck, it’s an extra kick to the avocados.
I need a little more time than I have to make that fanpost, but I’m sure the might-have-beens are reaching double-digits. And that’s without the Questionable Lineup Games, which seem to happen once a series.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
don't blame me.... blame the nlds
it’s the pits
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
(will not confirm or deny that I am to blame for everything else)
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
CCDGAFIYDFLGA
After all, Carp is starting and we should enjoy it while it lasts.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i'm going to the stl this weekend
and hoping to see carp & waino pitch sat/sun.
last time i went to busch was 06, and i saw marquis & soup start if i recall correctly. i have gone to many cards games but haven’t really seen the top of the rotation in any of them.
labor day weekend 2003: williams, morris
july 4th weekend 2004: williams, marquis
july 4th weekend 2005: marquis, mulder
june 24/25, 2006: soup, ponson
july 4th weekend 2006: ponson, marquis
may 18/19, 2007: looper, reyes
july 4th weekend 2009: pineiro, thompson
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
That's rough.
I remember that it took me about 6 Cardinal games before I even saw them win. This had a lot to do with the fact that the first two games I went to as a child were started by Manny Aybar! Imagine that! The first two Cardinals game of my childhood, in different seasons even, started by Manny Aybar. The third game I went to we got no-hit for 6+ innings by Pedro Astacio. It’s a miracle really, that I remained a Cardinals fan through those early years.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
wat
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
man, get the hell out of here
i live in stupid texas. this is the baseball fan equivalent of me throwing out a perfectly good cheeseburger and flaunting it to some starving child in a third world country. the last time i saw the cardinals was 2008
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 28, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Indeed
As much as Fort Wayne Indiana is a baseball Mecca….I would much rather be able to go to some Cardinals games. :P
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
and be around people not wearing
stupid craig biggio shirts and lance berkman jerseys
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Ahahaha
The horror! The horror!
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
a rec
for truth! I’m in the same boat, or was until a few weeks ago. I was able to catch Jaime pitch in a loss to the Mariners… and I loved every minute of it. That was the first game that I’d been to since July of 07. NEVER pass up going to a Cards game, even if they’re in a slump.
RFL for GG!
i just don't feel like driving downtown to go the game
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm sure you can find someone to take those babies off your hands
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I just have one ticket.
So I would have to sit alone
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
sometimes its better that way.
nothing like going to a game with someone who doesnt understand or doesnt care what’s going on
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I love going to game by myself.
It’s an incredibly relaxing experience. I get to just listen to the sounds of the game, keep score, and cheer when I feel like it. When I went to the Cards-Cubs at Wrigley earlier this year (and saw Pujols swat three homers), I went by myself and it was incredibly enjoyable.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I LOVE going to games alone
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
by the way if you ever come to st. louis planning to see a game
i would suggest to go to six flags first… at least that’s pretty much the perfect day IMO
Six Flags from 10-4 and then the game at 7….. this is exactly what I’m doing today and its a great day…. im already exhausted but then again im watching the game sitting down so i’ll be fine….
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
In LA, 6 hours is like 3 rides
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
stl six flags lines are decent... especially if you pick the right rides
freeze and batman are old enough to were its less than 20 minutes wait, superman is the longest wait not counting any waterpark rides (managed to go on, its fucking awesome btw)
and then there’s the ok rides that are still fun that have next to no wait in the boss, ninja, etc. which all cause headaches
it also helps that i came on a monday…. never noticed that six flags in stl on weekdays consisted of freshmen girls or younger until today….(saw about 50 or more)
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Freshman in high school or college?
Very important distinction
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
haha freshmen
god i wish it was college…..
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
A look into some of the reasons it can suck to watch this team right now
- They’ve gone 3-16 in games in which 5 or more runs have been allowed. That’s why it feels like we have no chance after allowing just a couple of runs early.
- They’ve scored 0 or 1 run 17 times already. For perspective, it happened 20 times total last year and it has happened to the Reds just 10 times.
- 5 walk-off losses to just 2 walk-off wins
- Since reaching 18-8 on May 3, not only have they been 3 games under .500, but they have had two 3 game losing streaks and a 4 game losing streak compared to just one 3 game winning streak.
- In June they’ve scored 93 runs and allowed 94
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
One of the losing streaks consisted of, at least in part, a sweep at the hands of the Astros,
a club that is absolutely terrible. And, we just lost a series to the Royals, a club that is absolutely terrible.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
you spelled turrible wrong
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
In this post, I did.
But, you’d be pleased at my spelling of it during the texts I sent describing the Cardinals Friday night.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You did too
It’s trbl.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
not enough syllables that way
which is trouble
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
The 0 or 1 runs thing is what gets me
That just shouldn’t happen this often. I dunno if it’s lineups, BABIP, or what.
Agreed...
The 0 or 1 runs thing is just absurd.
This team was hyped as an offensive juggernaut and that’s what was sold to the fans. April was GREAT (probably a bit inflated, but pretty freakin’ fun to watch) and then it’s been like 2 months of just flat.
To borrow some terms from clinical psychology, it’s not even that the team is “bipolar” that frustrates fans but rather it’s the “flat affect” that is so puzzling. And I think that during these prolonged “flat” stretches, this is why you often hear fans clamoring for TLR to "do something’ to show some life. Get tossed, do something because he (and the team) can just look so completely dysthymic.
Maybe it’s just heuristics, but it seems like we have seen more and more of these “flat” periods in recent years. And it sucks.
they're also 0-34 when the opposing team scores more runs.
by CodyG on Jun 28, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
ffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
by BVHeck on Jun 28, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
What gets me isn't losing - we can expect to lose at least 60-70 games...
…its our overall suckitude vs STUNKY pitchers! I mean if we lose to Tim Lincecum or Roy Halliday, well hell. But Bruce Chen? Bud Norris? We’d get shut out by the first penguin that escapes from the zoo if they slapped a glove on his finm and taught him to be a soft-tossing lefty…
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
...
like you, moocow, i could understand losing to a big name pitcher. but what’s been frustrating the hell out of me is how we lose to no-namers like bud norris, who sucks against everybody but us, or bruce chen. other teams could beat the crap out of these guys, but us? no way.
we are 7 games over .500, but it sure doesn’t feel like it. cincy being in the race still is quite a surprise, and given that the cards are signing guys like soup and miles has made this season all the more frustrating. and don’t even get me started on holliday (i’ll give him credit for his rebound – even though i’m stumped at why tlr doesn’t keep him hitting at # 2, because he’s done so well there).
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 28, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting you bring up Holliday's spot
I was talking with a buddy during Holliday’s surge and I sort of sarcastically asked, “So, how long before TLR moves Holliday back to cleanup?” I think I did a couple of over/under comments on here even.
Anyway, the guy’s comment is what got me. It was basically that he shouldn’t move him EVER (or at least anytime soon) because there really is nothing “good” that could come of it that outweighed the risk. In short, if Holliday moved back to cleanup and went back to flailing about aimlessly, now you’ve damaged his confidence. So then say he struggles at cleanup for a few games…do you put him BACK in the 2 hole? And then what does that do to his head?
Ultimately, to me, it just screams of the “tinkering” that has characterized TLR for most of his STL tenure. I mean, what’s so awful about picking your best 8 guys, setting a lineup, and rolling with it? And if something is really working (e.g., Holliday raking in the 2-hole), why dick with it? What are you proving?
no kidding
if a guy is hitting well in a spot (like holliday at #2) then why mess with it? as long as he’s hitting good there, keep him there. once he starts to struggle again, put him back in cleanup. only tlr didn’t put him back in cleanup because he was struggling, it was because tlr felt that holliday in the 2 spot was no longer needed.
things like this is what drives me nuts about tlr. i understand he likes to change the lineup a lot, and likes to have his players, but what’s the point of having miles/winn/whoever else when you’ve got a lot of youth (craig/mather, etc.)? i thought tony was riding the youth movement for a while. seems like that plan changed with the miles signing.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 28, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Holliday was moved back to clean-up because RFL was hurt.
We’ll see what happens when Luddy comes back.
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jun 28, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
mark my words...!
doom schall com uppon you
scholde Ludwick be relesid
ar his terme
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Y2S, your stuff is becoming increasingly avant-garde.
I found your earlier work much more accessible. I probably should have taken some sort of blog appreciation class at some point.
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jun 28, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I blame tom s.
DanUp does not compete with me in terms of style — who could equal him, anyway — but tom s. has increasingly shown that I have been slacking off in my own specialties. gotta step up my game! two out of three isn’t enough!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
not to mention
I have been banned
from haiku.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Not a haiku
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
by purple_haze on Jun 28, 2010 1:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
what means more to you
the letter of haiku law
or haiku spirit
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
I'll check to see if Webster offers a continuing-ed course, then.
I don’t wanna fall behind around here.
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jun 28, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
actually I just cobbled that together from an old english online thingy.
the only weird vocabulary in there is “ar”, which I take it means ‘before’. the rest of it makes sense aloud.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yep
i was one of those saying holliday wouldn’t be moved from 2, ever, because there was nothing to gain and everything to lose, but i didn’t account for luddy injury, and in a way that doesn’t count so long as holliday is reinserted at two once luddy is ok, which i would expect to happen. wasn’t it the first game in toronto stav batted cleanup? i guess we were facing lefties, which ruled colby out, and freeze is a rookie, so tony wouldn’t put him cleanup, so after watching stav in that spot i guess holliday was tony’s only option.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeesh.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 28, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't know which would be more ridiculous
miles dh’ing batting cleanup or miles dh’ing batting last. in the first case, nothing unusual about a dh hitting cleanup, but it’s miles, and in the second case, nothing unusual about miles batting last, but very unusual for a dh.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah, but COLBY.
lopex holliday pujols COLBY freese yadi would have worked out pretty well, i imagine.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I recall seeing the reason...
…for Holliday back at #4 was that Luddy was out with the calf thingie, and TLR wanted a slugger in that slot. Of course, why the person with the highest slugging percentage on the team couldn’t be there, we may never know.
Dang.
I had my post started first, but went to check stats to make sure I was right on the slugging percentage thing.
It's to protect him, or something
Because Colby would literally melt in the glare of the fourth position in the order. So says The Logic.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
My biggest worry is that their is no quick fix
Even though we are down 2 starters that is not even our biggest problem. We can’t point to a position and say upgrade here through a trade. We just have a lot of players have unlucky/down years. Our catchers have been absolute horrible this year. Molina/LaRue has been the worst hitting combo in the NL for catchers so far this year. But it is not like we can just get rid of Molina. ie
C – .598 OPS (16th in NL)
1B – .946 OPS (3rd in NL)
2B – .656 OPS (10th in NL)
3B – .744 (11th in NL)
SS – .633 (12th in NL)
LF – .835 (4th in NL)
CF – .908 (1st in NL)
RF – .794 (7th in NL)
Our bench needs to go besides Lopez and Winn
No more Miles, Stav, and LaRue. Replace with Greene, Craig/Mather, and Anderson.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is there somewhere that lists bench OPS?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Good call....hey, at least the CF OPS looks pretty sweet!
I looked into this last year too when a lot of the deadline rumor wishlist focused on getting another top-flight starting pitcher. And you reiterate that here.
Ultimately, when other teams’ #3, 4, 5 starters are regularly tossing up “quality starts” (or better) against you, it really stacks the deck against you.
Yes, it would be nice if Lohse/Penny were making the 4th/5th starts of a turn, but we just don’t score runs on a regular basis and consistently fielding a lineup with 2-3 offensive black holes isn’t helping matters.
And did anyone notice that Freese is crashing down to earth?
He currently has a .765 OPS but that is with a .376 BABIP and a .108 ISO. So his OPS is driven by a high average with no power. I think we should be concerned about Freese’s complete lack of power.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I noticed it on the scoreboard in KC.
His OPS is really low at .740-something, but still nearly 100 points higher than last season’s .661 from the third basemen. His 7.8% walk rate is not good, but isn’t horrendous. His ISO of 108 would easily be the worst of his career, if we consider AAA. I know Az has opined that projection systems may have been too enthusiastic about Freese’s power potential, but I would expect his ISO at season’s end to be higher than 108.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
.540 OPS in June for Freese
Sigh. Better than Heyward, but not by much (.532).
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
WIthout a doubt in my mind
Rasmus is the MVP of this team so far.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Quick question:
1. First (on team) to 20 HRs:
A) Albert
B) Colby
C) The field
2. How confident are you?
78.6% sure that Colby gets there first
but then albert gets to 30 before Colby gets to 25
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
A
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
90% for A
only because Colby’s been getting lucky on HR/FB% and Albert’s getting unlucky
Colby: 20.8% (career to be determined but probably closer to 15%)
Pujols: 15% (career 19.8%)
not to mention i would never bet against the mang
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
my ideal bench
would be lopez, mather, craig, greene, larue. that way you’d have the backup MIs (in lopez/greene), flexibility (corner infield and outfield spots for mather/craig) and backup C (larue).
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 28, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I've given up all hope for Mather
his nickname has seemed to carry him further than his wrists ever could
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
There was a time when his wrists could carry him,
but that time was two years ago, back when he had a .780 OPS despite having a mere .241 BA.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i've done the same with craig
it seems like there’s no point in carrying him around if the cards aren’t going to use him. he hasn’t really gotten much of an opportunity, which frankly is too bad. i would hope that the cards would deal him in a trade if they’re going to keep bouncing craig around all the time. it’s really too bad that they would have to trade him, but it’s apparent that they see no use in craig.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 28, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
but for different reasons it appears
mather because he seemingly not good anymore while craig is being wasted…. big difference IMO
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
he's getting stronger as the season progresses and with regular ab's
memphis line since being shipped out: .333/.393/.469/.861. i’d let him continue to get regular ab’s for a while longer, but if he continues to hit there’s really no reason he shouldn’t be on our bench instead of stav.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
saw on futureredbirds yesterday
mather homered, and mr. craig one-upped him, hitting two. iirc, craig didn’t do much the first week or so after being sent down, which is understandable, but has hit like 2nd-half-craig-last-year since. the 6 AL road games would have been an opportunity to get him 25 PA’s in a short span, and with luddy coming up lame could have been big. if they didn’t call him up for that, i’m not too confident about them ever calling him up (barring injury), unfortunately.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
OPS
Mather’s OPS is .862 and Craig’s OPS is .869. But, last I checked, neither had a goatee.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
WHAT!
I thought for sure Brendan and Joe had their mustache pact. Is Boog growing it out alone?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I just realized
that the Cardinals don’t lead the NL in OPS at first base. Wow. I’d have never predicted this happening.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i'd guess votto does
but who else is in front of apu – gonzalez? take that dude out of petco and put him in cincy and it’d be scary.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
if he's around where Votta and Gonzo are
he’s in great company
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the problem, though.
Pujols doesn’t keep company because being in company suggests peers. Pujols has been so ridiculous that he has no peer offensively in all of baseball, let alone merely at his position. If Pujols is not Pujolsian, and he is just another great first baseman, the forthcoming super-contract seems like a bit of a reach…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
there's a whole half season left to be played
maybe he will again rise above. if not, we have someone who is as good as anyone still.
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 28, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
...and not even 2nd
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Get on the phone to Mo!
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
Cromulent
I love a good Simpsons reference on a Monday morning.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
A noble heart embiggens the smallest kwyjibo
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
This weekend made me very glad I was too busy getting married to watch it.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 11:57 AM EDT reply actions
congratulations
Are you on your honeymoon and taking a break for a few minutes?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
Just catching my breath man.
We’re taking our honeymoon next month. We just took a couple of days to try to unwind from the stress.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
got married a few weeks ago myself
that’s exactly what we did. A couple days to unwind and then we hit the road. Worked out well for us. and congrats!
Getting married in August
And we’re taking a day off before we travel.
Also, congrats to both of u
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jun 28, 2010 1:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What are all of you doing/have you done for your honeymoon?
I want to go on a backpacking trip throughout Europe, but my fiancee said, “Fuck that, I wanna lay on a beach and NOT be sweaty and dirty for ‘honeymooning’ activities”
I couldn’t argue with that logic
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
When momma happy, everybody happy.
You learn fast.
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jun 28, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
far and fast.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
and side to side as you run, if she stabs you try to take it in the shoulder
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Going to Maine to have another party with her family.
We got cottage right next to the ocean for the week. Might go sailing and do a lobster boat tour. They’re supposed to be having a three day festival of sailing races. So I may just sit my happy ass on a rock with a cooler full of beer and watch sailboats. I will probably never get another chance to do anything that relaxing again in my life.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Im goign to a honeymoon resort
In The Mang’s native country
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jun 28, 2010 5:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And just because it popped in my head, my response to this would be "Kansas City?"
I would be such an asshole to myself if I was friends with me
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jun 28, 2010 5:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
FWIW
I’ll be going to Mazatlan, Mexico
but I see that’s not really what this thread turns out to be about…
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
No not at all
My parents were nice enough to pay for it.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
congrats to you as well
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, real subtle brag, guy
Congratulations =)
All the best, man. I’ll be taking that dip in a year
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Congrats to you then.
You’ll need a year to get it all lined out and then it will still feel like it’s jumping on top of you. No amount of pre-planning will prevent this. I suggest a lot of alcohol. My boys fed me a healthy dose of Crown-n-coke the morning of to calm me down. Wasn’t nerves, just stress.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I think everyone needs to go watch Old School again
about a month before they get married for the “Frank at the altar” scene. I hound people I know to do so (literally) as a (half) joke. Plus that’s just one of the funniest movies out there.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Someone here, amid the clamor of congratulations,
has to be the voice of probabilities and possible outcomes. I accept that mantle.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
hahahaha
You wear it well.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
How many partners have you had?
Small sample size.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
by hazel on Jun 28, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that the US divorce rate has reaced 50%
but based on a quick google, mid-40s seems like a reasonable estimate. It’s not something I’m familiar with (my parents have been married 30 years, IIRC) but it’s certainly a possibility though not the most likely outcome.
I wish anyone who gets married the best but I hope people aren’t naive about the perils of sustaining a marriage in modern society.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
don't forget that is the percentages of marriages that end in divorce
not the percentages of people who get married ending up divorced, my friend eric is his wife’s eighth husband
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
talk about the triumph of optimism over experience
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
My uncle just got divorced for the second time
His advice to me: “Don’t ever get married. It’s not worth it.”
Thanks for the tip…
marriage scares me
Women get all the advantages in a result of a divorce. Half the stuff PLUS the kids
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
i find flaws in your logic
a) if your wife were making the money, you’d be getting half too, plus alimony plus who knows what
b) how is getting the kids an advantage?
men rarely if ever get alimony
I personally would want custody of my kids. Regardless how horrible the mother is she will almost always get the kids.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I would assume so but then again we know
nothing about her.
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
this is not always true.
i know several women who are paying alimony to their ex-husbands.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
not even close
Like 5% of all alimony is paid by women
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
the VWB gender wars have begun!
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
here at VEB too
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
okay, but how about the % in the last few years
and:
In fact, according to the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, 44% of attorneys included in a recent survey said they’ve seen an increase in women asking for prenuptial agreements over the last five years, where in previous decades, prenuptial agreements were almost always sought by men.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Once women start giving commitment
snowmobile/jetskis I will believe it has swung back the other way
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Do you think it is coincidental that diamond rings as
engagement presents became common around the time of women’s suffrage?
Regression, bitches.
about as coincidental as the
opening of the blue clay diamond mines in Africa
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
So womens sufferage is to blame
for Apartheid? Someone call Limbaugh!!!!
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Don't forget the Dutch
giving the Boers a pass seems like a bad idea
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
on avg
working the same job, don’t women make more than men now?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Without looking anything up
Almost assuredly not
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
If you account for experience
and continuity of service it is very close
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
quick google search
got me this (FWIW)
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
but this may change, because more women than men are going to college now i think
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Almost 60-40
and women account for more than 60% of new companies being created. I think we are seeing the natural outgrowth of the creation of video games
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Reader that NYT article
I’m guessing that in urban areas, it’s about equal (or more)
In rural areas, it’s probably wayyyyyyyyyyyy less
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Yeah but in rural areas women
rarely work the same hours as men, or as continuously
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
It's not that hard to control for that stuff
I’m sure it’s already been done
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
it really is fun
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
You are kidding, right?
"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
what the air is clean and me
an colby are goin possum huntin later
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
no
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
It has very little benefit for a man
but a huge benefit for children so if you are going to have kids I would highly recommend it
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
That is so, so not true.
Marriage has many advantages for men and very few for women.
Regression, bitches.
baaahahaha
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 29, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Biologically, that's untrue
In nature, men tend to mate with as many women as possible in order to ensure that one of his offspring survives
Women, on the other hand, mate with as few men as needed to get pregnant and hope that the man sticks around to raise and protect the child
So marriage, as a social function based in biology, is more conducive to the female’s line of thinking
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Are you crazy?
Historically speaking, marriage has been TERRIBLE for women.
Have you ever wondered why women take the man’s name upon marriage? Because men owned their wives and children. The phrase “rule of thumb?” That’s because the thickness of the man’s thumb was the thickness of the stick he could legally use to beat his wife and children.
Until 20 years ago, husbands could legally rape their wives.
Only recently have states truly begun enforcing child support laws. It took the state of MIssouri over 20 years to recoup unpaid child support from my deadbeat father. TWENTY YEARS. My mom had to raise us with no support when he left us high and dry. (By the way – he was a cheater, so I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy for men who go outside of their obligations and don’t honor their commitments like cowards.)
Regression, bitches.
Marriage was 100% rooted in PROPERTY and MONEY.
It had nothing to do with love or romance or fidelity or commitment until quite recently. And while those other factors may now be in the picture, marriage is still a contract rooted in property and money.
Regression, bitches.
my marriage was more of a business plan
so what you’re saying is that we are in the process of reparations?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
The reason that marriage has changed to include these other factors
has everything to do with women garnering more rights. They don’t have to be married to own property or have an electric bill.
Regression, bitches.
I agree that women had it horrible
but for the most part those wrongs were righted and women now have equal footing, if not a foot up
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
in the U-S-of A
I think it has
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I said literally nothing about the social aspect of marriage
I absolutely agree with you, but if you look at marriage in terms of nature, it is more in line with the female’s preference than the male’s. That’s all that I was saying. Other guys here have said things much more egregious than I
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
If it follows women's nature, it was purely coincidental or something
men once devised in order to get women to sign their lives away.
Regression, bitches.
you do realize that the lot of women
back then was much worse without marriage right? I mean a thousand years ago in the north of England a girl was more likely to meet her future husband as he kicked down her family door than at a dance.
The creation of a legal structure like marriage was meant to protect a womans status and was a great leap forward from previous laws that basically gave everything she and her husband had accumulated to his closest male relative
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
as is your right but if you
look around the world where women did not gain that status the the chattel argument still holds
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Really?
Like the women who are one among many wives? Their situation is MUCH better.
Regression, bitches.
Utah?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I was saying that in the areas of the
world where marriage was never institutionalized the plight of a married women is very similar to those of Europeans 1000 years ago
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
It IS institutionalized in some areas where it's still awful for women.
Please explain.
Regression, bitches.
The institution of marriage in the
western world is a much different creature than in Africa, the Middle East, India, or parts of SE Asia. Those women have not received the societal or legal protections extended to western women.
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
And western women just recently received some
of these protections. And are still lacking some. It’s far from perfect.
Regression, bitches.
Boondock Saints
they go over the rule of thumb in that movie
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Fair enough.
Doesn’t change the fact that men were permitted to abuse their wives and children.
Regression, bitches.
Like I said
Not intended to counter your larger point, just thought you might like to know. It’s a pretty common misconception.
True fact:
A law was on the books in the mining camp of Butte, Mt, into the 20’s I believe, that a miner could legally beat his wife once a month.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Having a woman living with him as his partner
is of unmeasurable worth to a man, the institution and structure of marriage are designed to protect women and children.
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Bullshit.
History does not bear this out. Marriage was about sharing and creating wealth and it ALWAYS followed the men. All of that success and wealth was built on the backs of women who had little choice in their affairs.
Regression, bitches.
let's not forget
that in a vast portion of the rest of the world, women are still pretty much enslaved by their husbands and often don’t even get to chose who they marry
i’ll have to side with spants on that one
good point
that’s part of what makes it hard to pin down a specific divorce rate. The definition is ambiguous.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Ok...glad you caught it.
It is a terribly complex stat to figure out. I’m glad you didn’t just go to the often-cited “one out of every two marriages will end in divorce” meme.
And like TomCat said above, the “divorce rate” in any given year includes people divorcing for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, nth time, which inflates the divorce rate for all marriages.
maybe we need a weighted stat for measuring divorces
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but why is that a problem
if we’re trying to find the percentage of divorced marriages, then the unit is marriage and not spouse
if someone is being divorced for the second time, that’s two marriages that failed
or what problem are you seeing that i’m not?
A person who has been divorced more than once
is more a commentary on that person, than on marriage itself.
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Marriage is like gold
Nature’s first green is gold
Her hardest hue to hold.
Her early leaf’s a flower;
But only so an hour.
Then leaf subsides to leaf.
So Eden sank to grief,
So dawn goes down to day.
Nothing gold can stay.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is the problem
Well, not “problem” but why researchers struggle with this stat.
You always hear about how “one out of every two marriages will end in divorce.” But this is waaaaaay too simplistic.
If you buy that formula, you’re saying that in any given year, for every two marriages, one of those will end in divorce. So you’ve got 50 divorces out of 100 marriages.
However, pretty clearly the folks who get divorced in any given year are not likely the same folks who got married in that year. This means you can’t just do the math on #divorces/#marriages to determine the odds of getting a divorce.
So, for your example, unless the person got married 2x and divorced 2x in the same year, the math is misleading.
Good point.
And the data for secondary and post-secondary marriages should be looked at separately.
Regression, bitches.
yes. this is the reason why it seems like no one passes the bar exam
they lump the first timers in with the jerks who’ve taken and failed it multiple times.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I worked with a kid named Jaeger once
who told me his mom was “straight scandalous” because she had married her way up the socio-economic ladder and had collected settlements from 6 different men
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
Exactly
Even here in CA, the pass rate for first time takers isn’t really that bad. Its when you add in all the repeats that it appears so difficult.
It is more informative (IMO) to look at
something like the % of people divorced by a certain age. Then you can see stuff like who is at the greatest “risk” of divorce (males in their 50s), etc.
There is just so much variability and so many individual-level factors…tricky phenomenon to predict.
I would bet that getting married in your mid-twenties
through early thirties is the greatest indicator of length, any earlier you have no clue, any later you are to set in your ways
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
I think pretty much the min to getting married is 25
If you can’t rent a car you can’t marry.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
There might be something to this
line of thinking. Although we often hear about the “death of the institution of marriage” and other hyperbole, divorce “rates” have been declining since the early 80s.
And one explanation for that is that people are putting off marriage until they’re a bit older (one study even showed that the older a woman was at first marriage, the lower the probability that she EVER divorced). So the data would say that you’re probably half-right!
3 years for my marriage this october
and we hate each other as much as the day we got hitched
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
My direct lineage has never had a divorce
two of my mom’s 7 siblings have been divorced, but almost none of my friends from childhood, or High School have divorced parents
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
My sister is the first person in my family to get a divorce
And I have a gigantic extended family
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody in my maternal lineage has been divorced
Everybody in my paternal lineage has been divorced
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, him too
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
This offers an opportunity for many marriage-themed acronym stats,
none of which I will post because it is low-hanging fruit.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
shouldn't you be looking into the availability of aging sluggers?
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
I wish, sir. I wish.
I am currently abusing the VLOOKUP function in Excel
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
would baseball prospectus's projection algorithm be called TAYLOR or ZSAZSA?
by DanUpBaby on Jun 28, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
done
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
how does the BURTON stat affect the curve?
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
In related news:
Tiger Woods to reportedly pay Elin $750M in divorce settlement.
Two things:
- Get a pre-nup, moron. No celebrity marriages last forever, just ask Larry King.
- When the Perkins waitress you were banging asked for $50,000 to STFU, you pay her the $50,000. Being a cheap bastard actually cost you MORE money.
I’m not defending what he did, but $750M is an absolutely ludicrous settlement. I’m all for hurting him, but why not force him to open an addiction clinic or donate half of his net worth to charity? There’s no reason she should get that amount, I don’t care about the pain and suffering and whatever.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
is there going to be alimony?
i hope there’s alimony and assloads of child support
what a stupid fuck
Again...
why do we have to monetize damages? Why does she get a free ride for the rest of her life? I’m all for putting some money in escrow for the kids and paying legitimate child support, but why should she never have to work ever again and live a life of luxury based off of being married to a philanderer?
He clearly doesn’t want to drag this into a courtroom, and I can understand that. But if she’s asking for that amount, which is nearly 75% of his reported net worth, I’d drag her into court anyway. That’s incredibly arrogant on her part to assume that she’s “owed” that amount for what she put up with just because he happens to have it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
because the law says 50:50
and the amount of humiliation that fuck caused her will never go away
he married her without a prenup, he knew the risks
he can make friends with paul mccartney now
i think you underestimate the spite you would feel when someone does you like that. you’ll strip them of everything they got too, if you could
Ya….this is all posturing. Their marriage was a farce, and nothing but a publicity stunt anyway.
I don’t know why he didn’t just push the original agreement through. Here’s your 20 m,il, nice knowing ya.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
in that case
for her services as actress to maintain his squeaky clean image
her salary is 750 mil
i doubt it that he hired lawyers that are that stupid
i am sure he’s buying her silence with all that money
I which case
i am sure he’s buying her silence with all that money
That’s pure blackmail. Quid pro quo.
Someone tried to do this to David Letterman and they threw him in the clink.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
not if she's not asking for it for that explicitly
or if he offered to buy her silence
tiger is smart enough to know that his image can’t take any more of a beating than it already has
I think it could take plenty of "beating" and he'd be A-OK
What is she going to say about him, that he’s addicted to pain/sleep pills, fucks like a rabbit, is a bad father and that she came after him with a golf club? We don’t already know this?
Maybe a tell-all book would mean it takes him two tournament wins for everyone to ignore everything about him. Nike isn’t going anywhere and if/when he gets close to Jack for majors, all this shit will be so far past we’ll barely remember who Elin even was.
Not afraid to nitpick
didn't she just start as a judge on American Idol?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
There is nothing illegal about agreeing to confidentiality
In a settlement. It happens everyday as part of almost every settlement of any legal dispute.
So he's "agreeing" to this then?
You’re apparently assuming he has a choice in the matter, when he has nothing to gain by not paying her for her silence. That’s blackmail of the first degree, whether it’s legal or not I don’t know.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Presumably
If everything you are saying is correct he is agreeing to pay far in excess of his net worth. If that’s true (and I have no idea if it is), he clearly has a choice. He could go forward and have the divorce decided by a judge that would give a more equitable split. He has a choice.
Tiger, I am confident, has adequate representation who is telling him whether or not agree to settle and will no doubt require confidentiality in any settlement. Tiger’s done tons of business deals and he can evaluate whether the risk of going forward is worth it to him.
yeah, this.
i tried to say something along these lines, but not as eloquent.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
And that's perfectly fine
I’m simply saying that, as a general rule, this particular amount is completely one-sided. He can do whatever he wants, but to say this is “fair” in the context of other similar situations is a fallacy.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Again, I disagree with this.
As if I’ve never been dumped by a woman before or cheated on by a girlfriend. Why do you think that women are the only victims who ever have to deal about these situations.
I’m sorry, but to say that what he “did” to her somehow disparaged her self worth into a hole that only $750M will fill says a whole lot more about her lack of personal strength than it does about his infidelities.
I would never put my wife in this situation, ever. I would also never try to take from my wife what was rightfully never mine in the first place. If her marriage of 6 years “earned” her that amount of money, then that’s not a marriage, it’s a job, and a pretty easy one at that. I’m sure some divorced or single mother of two living on food stamps would love to have multiple nannies and homes for their children.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
She was 19, right? Or was she 20 when it went down?
Doesn’t matter. A settlement is a settlement not a judgment.
Regression, bitches.
Nobody's arguing that, spants. He's an awful human being, an awful husband, and an awful father
The question is whether or not that the damage that he caused was worth 75% of his net wealth
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
If he agrees to give her that than he thinks it is in order to make her go away, no?
Regression, bitches.
i think we're missing the point here.
if they went to trial over this, there’s almost no way a judge would award her $750MM.
but it’s a settlement. people can pretty much do whatever they want. besides the fact that everything i’ve read suggests that she is not actually getting even close to that much money.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
they need to call in Vince Vaughn and Owen Wilson
they’ll get things agreed upon
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
No, because that really wasn't the point.
The point was whether she actually fairly deserves that kind of settlement in this instance. Apparently some people think that she does. I disagree with those people for a number of reasons.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
yes, probably because "fair" is an awfully subjective term.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
My current favorite
ambiguosly defined word is ‘chronic’. Thank you Montana Medical Marijuana Act.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Fuck you hippies and your partially-legalized drugs!
We can’t even buy alcohol on Sundays! They don’t sell 40s in Alabama!
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I would not live in Alabama.
And don’t call me a hippie, redneck.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm not your Billy Bob,
smelly dude in birkenstocks who probably has a name like one of the Planeteers’ elements
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
he was an awful husband to her
but to say he’s an awful human being, or awful father (something i’ve only heard the contrary to), is something unknown, unless you are fairly close to him. and being an awful husband his first time ‘round doesn’t even preclude him from being a great husband in the future – there have been lots of terrible first-time husbands, even second- and third-time, who one day end up great husbands with someone else. and little is known about her, also. i seriously doubt she’s miss goody two-shoes and entirely innocent in all this. what if she was just a cold gold-digger?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Jun 28, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did you copy this from the
end of a Jerry Springer episode?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
i don't get your point
are you judging him an awful human being and an awful father? then you know much more than i about him, because i wouldn’t be willing to do that. many who are willing to say that might be worse than him, which is why i just kind of laugh about it.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
No
I just read your comment and heard muzak in my head and Jerry Springer’s voice at the end of every episode reading it. That is all.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
oh, know what the show is
but never saw it, so i don’t know about that. don’t watch tv.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Here's a great example
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
I'm okay with it because that's what they agreed to.
Why would anyone be bothered if this is what they AGREE to do?
Regression, bitches.
Where have I argued that he didn't?
My point has never been to assess the blame of who failed in the relationship. That’s obvious. But to say that she’s due 75% of what he’s worth, most of it earned prior to their marriage relationship, because of that is another matter entirely.
It’s fundamental: What is the actual point of a settlement like this one during a divorce or dissolution of a civil union? Is it to inflict harm on the accused or wrongdoer? I say no, it’s to ensure that the damaged party can take care of themselves, whatever children are involved, and so on, to the best of their ability without a gross devaluation of living conditions.
Now, having said that, how can she possible need $750M to ensure that? It simply isn’t possible. She should not get to lead the life she led while being married to him after she divorces him on his dime with money he earned prior to their relationship.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
So what's a fair amount that doesn't devale her lifestyle?
Aren’t lifestyle considerations usually made in these types of high-profile, big money divorces?
Regression, bitches.
not that i necessarily endorse this POV, and not to get political, but sometimes money is the only way to punish someone adequately
this is why we have punitive damages. i dont always agree that the victim should get the money, but that’s why we have them. a guy like tiger, who’s clearly missing a moral compass, maybe the only way to make things “even” is to hurt him financially.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
But even this doesn't really hurt him financially, does it?
You’d could take 99.9% of his net worth away and he could still live adequately and continue to have earning power going forward.
I’m just saying, let’s put this in a different context:
Famous golf athlete (Name: Lion Forest) marries also ran model. They have two kids, after which Mrs. Forest refuses to ever have sex or have any intimate relations with Mr. Forest at all, which is her personal choice, but not a good one for the relationship. Instead of handling it well, Mr. Forest goes out and sleeps with anything he can find, which is a lot, because even golf has groupies who want to sleep with famous golfers and there are always plenty of women who would sleep with a celebrity just to say they did (and probably more men of that ilk as well).
Now, I’m not saying that’s what happened, but if you could be certain that your husband couldn’t keep it in his pants, what, exactly, prevents the wife of every rich man from doing the exact same thing, knowing full well that they can expect to get multi-millions in a divorce or settlement because they are due half of what he is.
You’re really telling me that there aren’t manipulative women (read: Anna Nicole Smith) out there that would think this way and use it for personal gain? Sure there are. I don’t think Elin Woods is one of those, but I also don’t understand why people think this is actually fair to both parties. It isn’t.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
mr. forest should have just asked for a divorce before he went and slept with anything he could find.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
maybe mr forest actually loved her
and hoped things would eventually work out, and maybe she was fine with him sleeping around and even encouraged it, just so she could get the dirt, and money. then he might be the oaf, but she would be the one with the broken moral compass, even though the law awarded her as the wronged party.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Ahhh, the beauty of never having feelings about someone
Must be nice to have simplified view of life from a legal standpoint.
What if she just up and decided that she was tired of being married to him and wanted to marry the pool boy instead? So she files for divorce, takes half of his net worth, and then proceeds to gallivant around the world with the pool boy and then marry him two years later? Without any marital infidelity on her part prior to the divorce being final?
Would that be fair?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
this is a completely different situation than the one you first described.
and the exact reason why very rich people get prenuptial agreements. unfortunately, situations like this do happen – to both men and women. they happen in all sorts of relationships – marriages, business ventures, what have you.
i dont think its simplified to say if you agree to be in a relationship that doesn’t work for you anymore, you ought to end the relationship nobly.
and i don’t appreciate the suggestion that i don’t have feelings.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I wasn't asserting that
Just that in your example you’ve ruled feelings completely out of the decision making process.
i dont think its simplified to say if you agree to be in a relationship that doesn’t work for you anymore, you ought to end the relationship nobly.
It’s not, but the problem is that the law doesn’t protect against people not ending the relationship in a noble fashion, therefore it happens, and happens much more often in situations where large sums of money are involved.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
the law DOES protect against that
by allowing parties to contract around traditional 50/50 splits.
my example was based on your example of a guy who’s starts sleeping around because his wife won’t sleep with him anymore. in that particular situation, he could avoid this huge settlement by filing for a fault-based divorce.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
But only prior to the actual contract
not when one party wants out of the contract. If one party leaves and is legally entitled to 50%, why the fuck would they ever give up less than that? All the cases should be arbited, it certainly shouldn’t just be determined to be equal because the parties didn’t expressly decide against that.
People don’t see marriage as a business relationship, they see it as a personal one, so dividing up one’s assets prior to getting married goes against the spirit of the institution as most see it. Many marriage arguments are about money, and pre-marriage arguments about money would lead to a lot of people not getting married I would imagine.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
The point you are missing is that Tiger agreed to marry her and
share his earnings with her. The settlement reflects that. You and your wife also agreed to share your earnings unless you have a prenup that reflects otherwise. It’s not about what she did to deserve it. There’s a simple answer to that — She married him. So you may not like that it is a windfall to her, but that is part of marriage.
Then why not a 50/50 split?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
First of all, it may be. We don’t know his assets.
Second of all, because this is what they are agreeing to!
i don't even know why we're still discussing this
if someone did you horribly wrong and then offered to pay you 750 mil to make it up to you/make you go away i will be so bold as to say that NO ONE here would turn that down.
i know i sure won’t
yes she’ll have 750 mil, but she’ll have to deal with him until their kids are at least 18, probably beyond that. and that humiliation will never ever ever go away. let her have the money and i hope to god she enjoys every penny of it.
other than that I really DGAF
That's the point
Marriage in modern American society should have almost nothing to do with “sharing earnings” in that fashion. He’s a moron for playing the game yes, but that doesn’t mean how things are set up are royally stupid.
Not afraid to nitpick
So how should it be done?
If the consequences weren’t dire, EVERYONE would fuck over their families.
Regression, bitches.
What??!??!
So relationships/familes can’t work unless you hold 50% of the assets as hostage?
Not afraid to nitpick
Assets are the basis of the marriage contract.
And when the contract is ended, there is a division of those assets.
You really think many people would get or stay married if there wasn’t financial incentive?
Regression, bitches.
Of course not.
And as you said before, many of the people who get married (and stay) do so for crappy reasons.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
It's a legally-binding contract.
People have to be held responsible for their actions.
Regression, bitches.
You're making different points here.
So, I feel like you’re not agreeing with the premise here: That the party with the lower earning power etc is entitled to 50%.
Instead, you’re saying that the norm, law, precedent and so on holds that they are entitled to 50%.
That’s fine, but aren’t we free to question the spirit (sprung from a time of even more sexist wealth inequality), and the application of that law/precedent?
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
If I say,
“laws restricting the use of marijuana should be discarded” then you can’t argue against me by saying “but marijuana use is against the law!”
I understand what the law is- I’m saying it sucks.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
If you actually set the rules up
So that it doesn’t have anything to do with the assets, yes. You’d still have to give some sort of alimony or something if there is a split where someone gave up their earning power, but the equal sharing of assets when there is an obvious disproportionate wealth is just nuts.
No one would agree to marriage if it wasn’t for the general feeling that it’s something you have to do to stay in the relationship. Marriage isn’t about sharing assets anymore, it’s the natural progression of a relationship.
Call me sappy, but it’s not all about the tax breaks.
Not afraid to nitpick
This feels wrong to me.
It’s ad hominem to tell someone they can’t understand a situation because they aren’t a party to it. I’ve never been shot with a gun but I can tell you I’d like to keep it that way.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
It can be arranged,
if you ever change your mind.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jun 28, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Have you ever been shot?
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Are you asking someone to shoot you are getting shot by accident?
Because entering these contracts is done by choice. It isn’t something that happens to you or an accident.
As a side scenario, if your wife shoots you and you decide to get divorced, would you like her actions to be held against her?
Regression, bitches.
So, do you think that Tiger's actions,
entitle his wife to 75% of his net worth?
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I don't care how much they settle for.
I have not used the word entitle or due.
Regression, bitches.
I don't think that we have.
She’s simply restated the law and precedential material regarding marriage. Since I don’t care for either, and since one thread of this discussion is independent of the facts or at least less dependent on the law, I think it would be nice to hear an answer to my question.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
My answer is that I don't think she's ENTITLED to 75%.
I never said she was. But if that is what he WANTS to settle for, then why would I give a shit?
Regression, bitches.
High five!
I guess I’ll see you around later.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
It's a very big deal to enter into a contract that if dissolved can seriously fuck everything.
Most people don’t realize the extent until they are actually married. And Joker’s notion about the progression of the relationship is nice and all, but splitting up is also a natural progression of most relationships. Once a piece of paper is involved and the marriage is ending, it is very much about money and business and fairness.
Regression, bitches.
It is about fairness.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Yes it is about business when a split happens
And that’s when a subjective determination of fair is needed. Fair is very frequently not anywhere close to 50-50 IMO as it is under literally any scenario right now.
Not afraid to nitpick
Why is raising kids a "burden"
Why should I get paid more for myself just because I’m raising someone’s children? Shouldn’t support for the children be enough?
This notion that raising kids is hard work and that you need multi-millions to do so is rubbish. As is the notion that Tiger will now have nothing to do with his kids and is putting it all on Elin to raise them.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It's a burden of time and finances.
I love kids, but let’s not pretend it’s always rainbows and sunshine.
Regression, bitches.
That's what we've been saying all along
Fair doesn’t mean equal.
A fair settlement would be child support and $10M for her trouble. In fact, that’s probably way more than fair!
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
No way.
Just because he’s rich doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have to honor the contract. Unless he only made $20M while they were together.
Regression, bitches.
But $750M is certainly more than 50% of his earnings from the time of their marriage.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I'm arguing from the marijuana example above.
The law exists, I understand. Settlements are perfectly legal. It would just be a bit ridiculous for her to end up with this amount of money.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
That was my point all along
Glad you’ve come over to my side of the fence.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Have you figured out yet that arguing whether an alleged settlement is fair with people who aren't a party to it is a worthless exercise?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 28, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Legalese
This didn’t start out as a thread about legal definitions — it only got to that point when all the lawyers started in on the legal aspects of it.
Just FYI, nearly all laws come about due to greater societal need. Many laws are awful or out of place historically (Prohibition, the right to own slaves, etc.) but those laws change over time or evolve to an acceptable standard of current societal norms. Treating the law, like you yourself do all the time in as annoying a manner as possible, as a non-shifting line on which there is a “wrong” side and a “right” side is to misunderstand law as a societal concept. Our own Supreme Court has dissenting opinions on nearly every case even though majority rule — if laws were applied how you state them, every dissenting opinion is “wrong” and therefore not justifiable, even those opinions that later on get made law by Congress in some form or fashion. Are they still “wrong” or are they “right” now because the law changed?
So to state that because this is a settlement between two parties means it’s “fair” to both parties is exactly the opposite of what we’ve been discussing here.
We get that it’s fair in a legal sense, we just disagree on whether the law itself is fair, and if the law isn’t fair to one party, that gives the other party more leverage in a settlement to decide what is fair and what isn’t. This settlement isn’t a zero sum game like you make it out to be. Why you refuse to admit that I don’t understand.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
in this case, the law is allowing people to create their own definitions of what is "fair" to them.
that’s about as fair as a law can be.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Is it though?
Or is the contractual marriage law actually forcing one party to give up more to stay out of a legal situation that would bind him to a courtroom for the duration of the case, costing him millions of dollars in potential earnings and appearance fees, not to mention hobbling his career, when he full well knows that the WORST she can do is 50%?
If there was no such statute garnering half of the couple’s assets to her, do you think that he would be settling for more than half?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
This has been my entire point
He put himself in this situation, so he has to deal with it, that’s on him. But to say that this is fair when one party has nearly all the leverage is a bit simplistic.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Nearly all
She can’t get less than 50%, so she can negotiate only upwards from there. In this situation, she really can’t lose.
Kinda like Deal or No Deal when the final two cases are the $1M case and the $500,000 case. You really can’t lose in the instance can you?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
he could have made her sign a prenup that said she wouldn't get ANYTHING in the case of a divorce.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Well sure
and then he’d have no reason other than true love not to go out and fuck around as he pleases. The more we learn about male intuition and power the less this seems likely to work out.
She’d be stupid to sign that agreement. Most would agree, and it may end the relationship. If everyone thought prior to their marriage about putting together a contract that would only be used if the marriage ended, would most people ever get married?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
and i would argue that if those people wouldn't get married based on inability to agree on what happens if the marriage ends, then they probably shouldnt be getting married.
tiger had all the leverage at the start of this marriage. maybe she has more now, but he had his chance to frame the dissolution of this marriage. if she really loved him, she probably would have married him anyway
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
This reminds me of the "you have to play the game to understand" argument
That people like to deploy in baseball discussions.
Yes!
I was thinking the same thing.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I don't have kids so I can't presume to know what it is to be a parent.
And if you aren’t married – or never have been – I wouldn’t presume to know what all it entails.
Regression, bitches.
I don't have kids,
but considering my brother ended up addicted to heroin as a teenager, I think I can still judge the parenting decisions of my parents.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Sure, you can judge them.
But until you live the day-to-day decision making (like in a marriage), it’s awfully tricky to know what it is to parent.
You might look at someone and know that you don’t want to be that person, but it doesn’t mean you won’t make some of the same mistakes. How many abused kids say they’ll never beat their children and end up doing it? Life is much different up close is all I am saying.
Regression, bitches.
Life is different up close,
but let’s not be postmodern about this. I think there are dozens of incidents of unfairness in the law, and I don’t think some uncertainty about some situations makes my judgment on instances of unfairness invalid.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
To go off on a third drug-related example.
If you go to medical school, become an addiction medicine specialist and a psychiatrist, then that doctor is less informed about some aspects of heroin use than an addict, but that doesn’t mean the physician can’t make well informed and valid judgments and prescriptions.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
And we all know how well medicine treats addiction.
Actually, unless you know an addict or have experienced addiction, you may actually think that medicine IS effective at treating addiction.
Regression, bitches.
totally the point!
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 29, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I 'z' through 415 comments
and sometime during the last ten minutes you drop by to land a your mom comment.
Well. Played.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
i forgot which thread i was in
and hit ‘z’ and now you’ve made me lose my place! f’in spants
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 29, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
For example:
Nearly a decade ago, my brother was hit by a car and almost died. Without any medical knowledge or any experience with that type of accident or injury, can you tell me what all that accident will affect? Now, you have medical knowledge, so I know you know what all it will entail. But if you aren’t in medicine and haven’t experienced it, how would someone know in all the ways his life changed?
Regression, bitches.
But not everyone who understands the situation was involved in it.
The ER staff, for instance.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
But they work in medicine so they understand the ramifications.
The way a divorce lawyer who has never been divorced – or married – understands.
Regression, bitches.
This thread has most definitely jumped the shark
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
We've jumped into a magical realm that
others are expected to suspend their disbelief in order to participate?
Regression, bitches.
And yet somehow we all understand,
that we don’t want to be shot.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
That we can all understand without being involved in the situation.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
And yet, if you are shot,
you’d want a doctor and some nurses tending to you, right? Not people that have no experience but loads of opinions?
Regression, bitches.
Yawn.
I suppose next time I’m wondering what pitches a prospect throws I should just give up all hope because there’s only one way I can know anything about anything.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Agreed
What I don’t get is the notion that she “gave up her earning power”. Some women do this, that’s understood, but in this situation she’s actually increased her earning power by being married to a famous man. If anything she’s worth WAY more now, without any of his assets, than she was before the relationship. This is what I mean when I say that the standard of 50/50 doesn’t work in the case of celebrities.
It would be Kimberly Conrad Hefner stating that she’s entitled to half of what Hef is worth even though the reason that she had earning power in the first place is because of her famous husband. It’s not the same.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It increased her earning power while married, I guess.
But if she signs a confidentiality agreement, how is she able to put her “celebrity” to work?
Regression, bitches.
Thousands of ways
Hell, she could become a reality TV star! If Celebrity Apprentice will take Rod Blagojevich, I’m sure they’d pay double or triple that for Elin Woods. You’re telling me that Playboy wouldn’t pay her a ridiculous amount more now to pose nude than they would have prior to her marriage to Tiger? Dancing with the Stars? Sure. The possibilities are endless.
Bottom line, Tom fucking Arnold still has a job nearly two decades after a failed marriage to a TV comedian who’s barely relevant anymore. Prior to that marriage? He’d never been on TV and was barely making it as a circuit comedian.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
That's fine,
but that’s her personal choice to do so. Just because she doesn’t want to doesn’t mean the opportunity isn’t there. There’s lots of things in my daily job that I don’t want to do, but I have to do them because I need to earn a living.
Just because she’s gotten a Golden Ticket by being married to a rich guy and having him fuck it up, doesn’t mean she should be absolved from earning a living for the rest of her life and should get to sit by the pool in a million dollar house and raise children.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
she could have most any time of lame
show she wanted because of her famous last name – or is she giving the name back? she was a nanny – i’m sure there’s some sort of celebrity nanny/child-rearing, very wholesome show in that somewhere.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Really???
So I can work and make $250k a year while my wife stays at home and rears our children and then at some point I can chose to abandon them and she should not be entitled to 50 percent of our assets as well as expenses going forward? Even though that was what we agreed to?
Really
Would that wife be due some compensation? Absolutely, and moreso all the way up to 50/50 if she had given up her own significant earning power.
If she/he was a say a high school fuckup who wouldn’t have had a chance to make any money themselves and married some rich wife/husband, it’s insanity to me to say that that person deserves to ride in the coattails of someone else while having nothing to do with it. The compensation isn’t zero, but it’s not close to 50/50.
Not afraid to nitpick
No, that's not it at all
Just ensure that the person can maintain the standard of living for an average single person, adjusting for cost of living, raising children, and the like.
If you choose to end a marriage to a wealthy person, that doesn’t come with all the advantages of being wealthy and maintaining that standard of living. At that point, all marriages become a sham.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Other possible stock response
Most marriages are a sham BUT MINE TOTALLY ISN’T.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
If that's your opinion than don't get married
Clearly neither of these two thought this way or they wouldn’t have gotten married in the first place.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Don't worry, I'm engaged.
At any rate, lots of marriages are entered into willingly with one or both participants knowing it’s not a “legitimate” marriage – that is a love-based marriage. Have you never heard of trophy wives or green-card marriages?
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
Absolutely
which is why the legally defined contract of equal party to assets due to marriage is bad policy, imo.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Of course that's not always relevant
Because if you’re smart, when going into a marriage you’ll realize you have to look at the fiscal side of things; thus, prenups rear their ugly but practical heads.
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
this is problematic, though
taken to its logical conclusion, if you’ve got a girl (or guy) whos a high school fuck up and is married for 25 years and never needs to enter the job market and then suddenly he/she gets divorced and that person has no skills, no experience, no credit on his/her own, etc., then what? just say too bad, i did all the work, you don’t get anything, even though i promised to love you forever and then decided not to do that anymore after you spent your whole life believing me?
/runonsentencedisaster
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
This is where economics come in
You consider what the opportunity cost: In her case, it’s probably a high school graduate’s average salary multiplied by the number of years they were married
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
and the value of washing dishes, cleaning the garage, mowing the lawn, folding the laundry, doing the grocery shopping, washing the car....
people contribute things besides money to marriages.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
elin washing the car?
now there’s a tv show. make it tongue-in-cheek, the travails of a divorced, unemployed single mother…while she washes a fleet of bentley’s in skimpy attire. has hit written all over it.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
And a lot of other crap on tv
doesn’t already do that? Real Housewives of (insert name here), Millionaire Matchmaker…..This could go on and on.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I don't think his comment was meant to
be disparraging, just a statement of the crap being passed off as entertainment these days.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i believe that comment was disparaging tv
and what people like to watch, so i assume your comment was directed at those things and not directly at me for poking fun at tv shows, which is why i don’t even have a tv.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think that actually disparages men more...
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
i apologize for disparaging men, tom
i just find some of the stuff they watch silly.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I was playing off an old comedy
routine about how strip clubs are degrading to men
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
i thought we were speaking generally here, not about elin specifically
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I understand, the point I was making is
that she went from an ordinary life to a life of extraordinary privilege and since it is unlikely she added the non-monetary value to this marriage that say Spants adds to hers it isn’t really fair to compare the two
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
how many of those things do you suppose Elin does
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
She was just pointing out non-monetary contributions.
Which she at the very least made by having kids.
Regression, bitches.
No, you don't say too bad
Alimony is not zero, it’s just not 50-50. No matter what, there are many situations in which you know the Fuckup would not have earned 1/2 the amount of money that got earned. Coming up with the appropriate number would be very subjective, but the current system of 50% no matter what is just nuts to me.
Not afraid to nitpick
well its not no matter what.
and it only applies to things earned during the marriage. marriage is supposed to be a partnership. the contributions dont have to be monetary themselves in order to have a monetary value. i actually think we should encourage that.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Right
But the monetary value on what Elin provided isn’t in the universe of half the money Tiger has earned in the past 6 years.
Not afraid to nitpick
Maybe not on your scale or on my scale.
Extremely wealthy people operate on different scales.
Regression, bitches.
But she was in an equal partnership with a man who was.
And she bore him two children. And they have a pre-nup. And we have no clue what will actually happen.
But they will settle. Just not for $750M.
Regression, bitches.
But she was in an equal partnership with a man who was.
That’s literally what I’m arguing against. Marriage should not be an “equal” asset partnership no matter what.
Not afraid to nitpick
C'mon
I’ve said that the alimony/compensation should also not be zero like 5 times already.
Just that like you yourself said, fair does not mean equal.
Not afraid to nitpick
Subjective based on the situation
Hell if after say a two year marriage + a kid where the husband cheated—-and the wife quit her 75k paying job to raise the kid—-and the husband earned say 100k over the two years? I don’t see why she shouldn’t get almost all the assets to raise the kid and leave just enough for Mr. Husband to find a place to live.
That pretty much sums this up: fair does not mean equal.
Not afraid to nitpick
I couldn't tell you
But even if you give it to the judges, that beats the shit out of saying 50-50 no matter what the actual financial situation was.
Not afraid to nitpick
Why should the lesser earners be protected
by getting half of what someone who makes more in a single day than they ever made in their entire life up to that point? That’s just nonsense.
Giving her $5M is protection enough. That’s more money than 90% of Americans earn in their lifetimes. Tiger should not have to subsidize her standard of living. If she wanted to live like a rich queen, perhaps she should try and work it out. If that’s not possible than she should have to sacrifice some as well for the relationship not working. It’s not like a middle class wife doesn’t sacrifice things to end a bad relationship that she didn’t ruin.
You seem to be saying the she shouldn’t have to sacrifice anything she has to end this relationship. I think that’s unrealistic and extremely unfair.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Then don't get married
Or draw up a prenup that provides otherwise.
Ah, but see therein lies the rub. Going in people don’t want to admit that they don’t think everything should be split 50-50.
And a prenup provides zero protection for earnings during the marriage
And people have a way of assuming that unless you get married, then you aren’t taking it seriously…
Not afraid to nitpick
Again, not true
They take the relationship seriously and the legally binding statutes much less so. I know a lot of people who’ve never even read their marriage license!
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Going in
Everyone thinks their marriage will last forever or they wouldn’t be getting married in the first place.
THAT’S THE RUB.
It has nothing to do with how each party sees the assets. In fact, I’d say that in most marriages very little is ever actually equal.
Your statement is pure bullshit. You think Elin didn’t admit to herself that the earning power of them as a couple wasn’t ever going to be 50/50? You can be damn sure Tiger knew that.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
in this case fourstick
in this case
i am all for doing the exact same thing to her if she was the one who did the cheating and the earning the money. if she had 750 mil to give, by all means, take it. man or woman, doesn’t make one bit of a difference to me. if you’re in the wrong, you should pay for it, no matter who you are
also, that amount is probably on what they accumulated during the 6 years plus future expenses for the children and and and. it can’t be on everything he earned from when he was a toddler
There's no way this is true
also, that amount is probably on what they accumulated during the 6 years plus future expenses for the children and and and. it can’t be on everything he earned from when he was a toddler
So he earned 100% of his entire net worth in the last 6 years? Probably not.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
because she had nothing to do with it being earned?
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
because marriage, in lieu of a pre-nup, comes with certain social and cultural obligations
It’s easy to sit on deadspin and say she should’ve known that all athletes are d-bags, but I doubt she felt the same way.
but does that make it right?
i’m not challengin whatever the law states. i’m challenging whether or not she should be entitled to $750MM solely by nature of the fact that she married a successful man and it didn’t work out
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
it didn't just not work out
if I decide I can’t quite fulfill the obligations of sb nation st. louis or VEB and have to drop out, that’s not working out. If I start sending ESPN obscene text messages and post all my stuff behind Insider paywalls, that’s a breach of contract.
so in return for six years in the lap of luxury and some embarassment
she is entitled to 2.5 times her home countries GDP?
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
I'm not suggesting she's entitled to anything
just that a construction like “six years in the lap of luxury and some embarassment” might be far from her own understanding of her situation.
one's understanding of something does not alter the reality of what it is
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
neither your understanding nor hers
honestly, I think hers is closer than the rote “she got to be with a rich guy!” response, which seems excessively reductive to me
Look even 100 Million is a mind boggling number
75% of his net worth seems excessive considering she was with him 6 years
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
But it's not like this number was arrived at in court
Presumably his lawyers and hers agreed on this. So, they can do what they want… no one’s being forced either way here.
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
Which is beside the point:
do you think she deserves the money?
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
YES
BECAUSE HE IS AGREEING TO PAY IT. She “deserves” whatever he agrees to pay. Now it would be completely different if we were evaluating what a judge had awarded her.
Then according to your logic,
women deserve to be paid less than men for doing the same amount of work because they agreed to shittier employment contracts.
Your logic sucks.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
No what I'm saying is
We are evaluating a settlement that these two are agreeing to. We don’t know: 1) the current value of their assets, 2) his future earning, and 3) the cost to provide for the children. She is “entitled” I suspect to half of the assets from the marriage period plus some amounts for alimony and child support going forward. I don’t really know what you mean my “deserves” which is why I answered the way I did. You can’t look at a settlement and say, well she didn’t “deserve” that settlement. I suppose you can say that it is more than she is “entitled” to under the law, but I don’t think we know what she is entitled to.
I certainly can look at a settlement and say she doesn't deserve the amount,
in the same way I can look at an employment contract and see that it is unfair.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
thats not right either.
people rarely negotiate employment contracts the way they negotiate prenup agreements. there’s a market set for the salary for a particular job. there’s no “market” for marriage settlements.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Tiger and his wife did not negotiate their marrige prenup either.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I really don't understand why the
original pre-nup is off the table. There’s obviously a lot of stuff going on out of sight of the public here. Which is their right.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Just because you didn't negotiate doesn't mean the resulting contract will be fair-
actually it seems to me that the contract will almost certainly be unfair.
Yes it will be legal, a fact that applies to both employment and marriage contracts, but that doesn’t mean we have to like them.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Dude, you shoud learn discussing legal shit on here is recipe for frustration.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 28, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, we aren't discussing legal shit in this case
We’re discussing what is and isn’t fair to both parties, which is the basis of how “legal shit” gets changed over time.
Just because it’s law now doesn’t mean it will be law in the future.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
okay
now how does that translate to $750MM?
i’m not saying she deserves nothing. i’m asking what she did to earn three quarters of a billion dollars
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
So if their joint worth was only $100K
Would the analysis be the same for you? I think not. She is entitled most likely to something that approximates 50 percent of his earnings. It shouldn’t depend on how much he has made. It translates int $750M because that is the settlement that they are AGREEING to.
if their joint worth (read: his worth) was
$100K, she should not be entitled to $75K
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
If they settle
And he has no obligation for future alimony or child support this would be a steal for him.
How in the world do you come up with that?
He could probably pay the alimony and child support (if negotiated fairly) with the interest earned on $750M each year for the next 20 years.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm talking about my hypothetical
But my point was that if the settlement of $750M comes with no future obligations, it would explain why it would be more than 50 percent of his reported net worth.
Or as I suggested somewhere above, the reported net worth is lower than his real net worth.
Even when she has the kids and all the responsibility that goes along with raising them?
Regression, bitches.
That's her decision or "their" decision.
What if he wants the kids? Has he proved to be an incompetent father? I don’t think so.
Let’s turn this around. Let’s say the gender roles are reversed. Do you think there’s any chance in hell that a husband who’s been cheated on relentlessly by his wife has a shot in hell of getting 75% of her net worth in the settlement? Not a chance. Kevin Federline didn’t even get 5% and he was married to a crazy, drug addicted, morally hazardous pop singer.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
It's a settlement, fourstick.
If that’s what he’s agreeing to, there’s a HUGE reason he’d be agreeing to it.
Regression, bitches.
That could be
but if it’s to keep her from going public about their marriage, than I really don’t feel sorry for her at all, honestly.
You’re also making that assumption that she earned nothing from being married to Tiger Woods, which I believe to be entirely untrue. I’d say she’s much more famous now than she ever was prior to the marriage, and that has everything to do with marrying the most popular athlete in the world.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't feel sorry for her, either.
I think people marry the wrong people all the time. There are always warning signs, and people ignore them because of the pink cloud.
I think far fewer people should get married.
As for that last paragraph, I never claimed she gained or didn’t from the marriage. I made no assumption whatsoever.
Regression, bitches.
There just aren't many other good examples
of rich women and poor men getting together and then having high profile divorces though.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
madonna's last hubby got a nice settlement
but it wasn’t anywhere near 50 or 75 percent of her fortune (no idea how much she’s worth, but i think he got 20 mil and some property) – and his earning power was much greater than elin’s at the time of the marriages, and i doubt the marriage increased his earning power like it did elin’s.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yes. It would.
In actuality, I think she deserves a lot LESS than a middle class divorcee in the same situation, mainly because her net earning potential actually goes up by being associated with Tiger Woods.
What if she pens a tell all and receives a $10M advance? Does Tiger get 75% of all her future earnings that could be construed as coming from being married to Tiger Woods?
Her Q rating right now is probably astronomically higher for having been married to Tiger Woods than it would have been otherwise.
I’m sorry, but 50% of his earnings is ludicrous as well. If he’s paying child support and some type of alimony, she’s set for the rest of her life without ever getting any settlement at all. I don’t see why 50% of $970M is the same as 50% of $12,000. It isn’t remotely the same thing outside of being the same percentage. Culturally, economically, fiscally, they are entirely different situations.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Not to mention her ability to earn anywhere near 1%
of that payout in her lifetime if she had never met him
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
This is so wrong
For example, say you and I go into business and we agree by contract that you get 50 percent of the company earnings as a silent partner. Later I decide to cut you out. Under your rationale I should be able to cut you out of the company without paying you half after our company gets really profitable. It’s a contract, he has to live with it. Just because Tiger got filthy rich doesn’t mean he can avoid paying her what she is entitled to based on their marriage contract. In my scenario, it really doesn’t matter that you were a silent partner, you still get paid. I agreed to go into business with you and give you 50 percent. Whether we make a lot of money or not in the business you are entitled to half. I can’t later say that because the business got really big you should only get 1 percent. Tiger knew what the financial ramifications of marrying Elin were and he chose to do it. And then chose to not honor his part of the bargain.
Please point out, where, on my marriage license
it entitles either party to “half” of the assets in a divorce? I’m looking at it right now, and I don’t see that written anywhere. This is purely a judgment of yours that you are applying to the situation at hand.
Marriages are contracts? I was under the assumption that they were relationships.
This wasn’t a business arrangement, it’s a marriage.
Also, using your business analogy, you’re missing some key information. Sure, we plan to split the earnings in half, but if you can prove that you’ve put 100% of the capital into the business for the entire 6 years and I’ve added nothing, you could easily sue me for the other half and cut me out. This has been done on numerous occasions.
Furthermore, Tiger didn’t get filthy rich after he got married, he was filthy rich BEFORE he got married. If we decided to split a new business 50/50, and I found out you were skimming profits, I couldn’t then sue you for 75% of your net worth, only what the business contract entitled me to.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Marriages are contracts first and foremost.
You don’t need a romantic relationship to make a marriage work, but you need the contract to have a marriage.
Regression, bitches.
depending on what state you live in, you agree to split everything earned during the marriage 50/50 upon divorce.
i dont think they put that on the actual marriage license.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
most states have no fault divorce now
that’s different from what i am talking about. all that means is that you don’t need to assign the blame to someone. people can agree to split for any reason or no reason.
arizona is a no fault state, but we still have community property.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
MT, I believe,
excludes worth and property held before the marriage, only what took place after the marriage.
I’ll have to verify this with a friend of mine.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
That is the same as most community property regimes
You are only splitting the earnings of the community (while it was a community).
Marriage is a legal institution
Entering into it carries it with legal obligations. What is so hard for you to understand here? I’m not making anything up.
And with regard to the business analogy, you are flat out wrong again. If you and I have a contract that allows you to be a 50 percent business partner with no involvement going forward, you are a 50 percent business partner regardless of what time, effort and money I put in.
And yes Tiger was filthy rich before which is exactly why most people in his situation would have a prenup.
these are the days where i like being a lawyer.
sometimes its incredible to realize how much random shit we know.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
me neither.
i’m surprised i can still talk coherently about community property
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Like me.
I am a 50% partner in my business with my husband. He controls the other 50%. He does far more work than me, but I put in more money in the beginning.
It may not look fair to others, but it’s our agreement and it’s our marriage. Same with this. If Tiger and Elin settle, it’s because they want to settle. And if it goes to court, the law will dictate what happens.
Regression, bitches.
These are contradictory statements
If Tiger and Elin settle, it’s because they want to settle. And if it goes to court, the law will dictate what happens.
Tiger “wants” to settle because he know he’ll get dicked over by what the law usually dictates.
Not afraid to nitpick
Wrong
According to Fourstick he is paying way more than he would have to if he goes to Court.
I suspect that Tiger would want to settle to put this all behind him and focus on future earning. Plus he is getting a huge benefit in a one time settlement with no alimony, child support etc.
Again with the putting words in my mouth!
According to Fourstick he is paying way more than he would have to if he goes to Court.
I have no idea what he would pay if he went to court, but it would probably be too much unless he had a pre-nup. Straight division of his assets is extremely unfair to him financially.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Yup,
Even if you business becomes Facebook or Google, you get 50 percent of that business.
Elin and Tiger agreed to share their wealth. That’s really all there is to this. Now they are trying to negotiate a mutually agreeable settlement. If they can’t reach one, they will go to court.
Again
What the book says vs. how the law is applied.
In my experiences with small businesses with multiple partners (both my own and people I know) the law is very tricky when it comes to partnership contracts.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm trying to use a simple analogy
Certainly there are complexities, but if we have an agreement that gives you 50 percent of the business, it is going to be very difficult for me give you any less than that.
Look we are using very simple analogies here, but what I am saying is that Tiger agreed essentially to a contract that gives Elin a right to 50 percent of his earnings. He didn’t have to. He chose to. He then chose not to perform his part of the bargain. Now they are agreeing to a split. I don’t see how we can judge that agreed split as being unfair.
Ahhh, but here's where it gets interesting....
He then chose not to perform his part of the bargain.
By who’s definition?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Seriously?
By whose definition would philandering with strippers be within his part of the marriage bargain?
I don't know
I’m sure that there are wives who put up with that sort of thing and don’t end the marriage. I’m not saying it’s right or it’s what I would do, but that really isn’t the point now is it?
The point is that she decided to end the relationship based on his actions, why that then entitles her to half of what he’s worth I have no idea. The definition of “performing his part of the bargain” is entirely in the eye of the beholder, which makes deciding what is fair compensation in terms of the relationship aspect complicated.
It should be done economically and not punitively, that’s my ever so humble opinion.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Funny -- this is what the law says
but it’s certainly NOT how it is applied, and I know, based on experience.
But now you’ll probably tell me I’m flat out wrong in my own experience too.
I really love arguing with lawyers, where everything is black and white as to what the book says.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
What?
It seems to me that the lawyers are the ones trying to keep you from drawing black and white judgments about whether or not it was fair that Tiger has to pay $750M or whether Elin deserves $750M.
There is a lot of gray here — what their assets are worth, what he would have to pay going forward, what states’ law would apply, what the prenup says, etc.
I don’t think we can evaluate this settlement at all except to say that it is likely the informed decision of the two parties involved.
I've not yet said what I think she deserves
But, subjectively, I know she does NOT deserve any settlement near that much, or really, anything north of, say $50M or so. Legally, she’s entitled to half, which I think is extremely unfair, considering the earning power of each when they engaged in the contract together.
In the business context, nearly all dissolutions of partnerships are done when one party either buys the other out or one party opts to sell the business. Many partnerships continue even with one person doing all of the work. She could certainly stay married to Tiger, that is an option. They wouldn’t ever have to see each other but could remain in the contract, the only difference is that she can’t then marry someone else, whereas I could go into business with any number of different people while still be contractually in business with my other partner. So the analogy doesn’t work.
I also think that if she were to marry someone else later on that she should have to forfeit the remainder of her settlement if it’s due to pain and suffering as she clearly has gotten on with her life and no longer needs those funds to cope. It’s when everyone brings feelings into this that I get upset — it should be an economical agreement and nothing more.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
splitting hairs, but in the business context, you could sue for fraud and the punitive damages may very well be 75% of the other party's net worth
just saying.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
But it would not be party to the business agreement
I would have to prove that:
- This damaged me.
- This added to his net worth.
Unless the business is a sole proprietorship that is backed with our personal assets.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i dont really understand this comment.
if we entered into a business together, and then you starting skimming off the top and cooking the books and lying about it, I can sue you for more than your 1/2 of the business.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
But if I did so
reinvested that money for greater returns in the business, of which you were party to, while not doing anything illegal in terms of accounting, then you’d have a hard time proving that you were “damaged”.
Contract:
- Offer
- Acceptance
# Consideration
We seem to be missing #3 in a majority of this thread.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
You really don't understand this concept
The consideration was agreeing to marry Tiger. That is sufficient consideration.
The consideration for the settlement is giving up her legal rights to seek a court determination and I suspect the right to alimony.
You really don't understand my argument.
Considering that neither ever signed a written agreement where the marriage contract is spelled out “equal shares of assets”, then the entire contract is actually then technically consideration of the parties involved.
If we start a business and have no contractual agreement as to who owns what , only an agreement that we are both owners of the business, when we decide to dissolve the partnership, we can then decided what portion of the business belongs to each party — we aren’t bound by legal jurisdiction to make everything 50/50 because we have no contractual agreement stating so. If I think my part is worth 60 and my partner agrees, then that is the consideration portion of the newly formed contract to dissolve the partnership and continue with one owner. If not, we can try again or we can go to court to resolve it, at which time all aspects of the business will be acceptable as evidence of ownership, (start up capital, invested personal capital, etc.)
Legally, there’s no consideration in this marriage contract from what I’m understanding, and that’s just wrong, imo. There should be consideration to establish what part of his fortune is rightfully hers, and she should not be entitled to a certain amount legally. That’s morally and ethically wrong.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Consideration is a legal term of art
It means that you must receive something (even a peppercorn) to have a binding contract. Offer and acceptance is not sufficient without consideration.
The legal consideration for a marriage is the agreement to marry and become part of the union.
I can’t understand what you are saying in the business context. If you had a contract to dissolve the business there would need to be consideration, likely the agreement to give up my portion of the business.
Right, exactly
and you would agree to give up the business after receiving an agreed buyout from me, or “acceptance”.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Do you actually think you're going to teach someone Contracts on a Cardinals blog?
You are getting baited so badly. If you even respond to his response to your message, there is no hope for you.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 28, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on I got to tell someone about
A peppercorn being consideration. My contracts professor would be so proud.
And again
with the asshattedness not necessary.
I truly wish I knew everything there is to know about everything like you do. I would be a much better person about sharing that knowledge, however.
You can disagree and explain things without having to prove how much smarter you are than everyone else, you know. Just a tip.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i dont think he's trying to prove that he's smarter.
the point is, we went to law school for three years to learn about the law, and i personally spent an hour a day in class five days a week for a whole semester learning about contract law. its silly of us to think we can explain it to you on a blog over the course of a dozen posts.
i wouldn’t expect someone to be able to explain calculus to me on this site.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
and i wouldnt get mad at someone for pointing how how ridiculous it would be to try.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Because he chose to marry her
If he didn’t want to share his earnings he could have chosen not to get married and have children. In which case he could have had all the chicks he wanted without having to pay someone $750 million. But when he chose to get married without a pre-nup, he had certain legal obligations.
And let’s not forget that this is a settlement, meaning Tiger is agreeing to it. Let’s not feel bad for Tiger. What he may only be able to keep $250M? Don’t forget his future earning potential. For the US Open alone he made a couple of hundred thousand dollars.
his money doesn't come from tournament earnings
those pale in comparison to his endorsements, which are the real source of his wealth, and which are now severely undercut by this fiasco. in other words, a couple hundred grand from the us open is peanuts to him.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
For sure
And all I am saying is that the $750M likely is in lieu of any alimony or child support which would explain why it might be more than 50 percent of his current net worth.
And I’m just not willing to feel sorry for a guy who will still be making millions of dollars.
pretty interesting (per tiger's endorsements), recently published by forbes
top 10 most disliked people in sports, from 10 to 1:
gilbert arenas
iverson
a-rod
TO
Big Mac
jerry jones
tiger
big ben
al davis
vick
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I wonder where he was before this all broke
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
probably on the most likable list
the summary said kobe went from likable to disliked and then back to likable once everything blew over and he won again. probably the same happens to woods.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
why do people hate gilbert arenas?
how is joe morgan not on this list?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Because he pulled a gun on his teammate in the locker room?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
and is generally an @$$
I do love me some T.O. though…
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
oh, i missed that story somehow.
he was a nice guy in college….
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Can we get a source on this $750M claim?
Frankly I just don’t believe it. Tiger had a pretty solid Pre-Nup from what i understand. She will be lucky if she gets $100M.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
plus her newly purchased yacht.
I put a link up there that had some details, everything lately has just been posturing, IMHO.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Because she's earned none of it.
Zero. Zilch.
A 50/50 split would be amicable, yet still ridiculous. In fact, I think she should get no more than half of what he’s earned since they met, as a true pre-nup would stipulate.
Reasons:
- If she goes out and sleeps with half the PGA tour while they’re married, what does Tiger get in the divorce? Certainly not $750M.
- The purpose of a mediation or settlement should be to air grievances and try to resolve the issue. That’s not going to happen when she’s due nearly 75% of what her husband is worth anyway — at that point she’s better off NOT being married to him, regardless of what he did.
- This settlement strikes me as unfair to all other women who are married to men of Tiger’s stature, because it precludes them to pay off all their mistresses because it will be cheaper to do that then to let any news get out. Which, in turn, also forces a shadow market of blackmail to go on in which trust and secrecy are of utmost importance. If you think these type of settlements actually decrease the likelihood of this type of behavior, I would point to all the cheating and sleeping around that’s been going on in Hollywood for years, despite settlements just like this one.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
then i wonder what his wife thinks
about her husband thinking what she’d be entitled/not entitled to in the case of separation since she’s probably staying at home with the kid right now not “contributing” to the family monetary budget
because he writes about this
as if women who stay at home with their children
contribute zero to the family budget
i’m sure his wife would be pleased to find out
He's smart enough to understand opportunity cost
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
There are better ways to address that point
Than bringing up his family and essentially using what you think his wife might think about it as an argument against him. How about skip the part about his wife and kid and just argue your opinion about whether a stay-at-home mother contributes to the family budget?
i asked if he was married
to find out if he has any understanding of what being married meant
it didn’t sound like he did
Ask fourstick if he still has
his RX-& (?), and you will know by his answer that he is married.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
RX-8 actually
We’re so poor now I might have to fix up an RX-7 though, lol.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
my dad never misses the chance
to remind me that he gave up his 66 Impala 396 SS for me. He’s a giver, you see.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
No kidding -- that was clearly a family decision, not a personal one.
lol
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Oh, I understand what being married means.
My question is:
Do you really need $750M to raise your kids properly?
The answer is no.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
if he has 750 mil to give
and agrees to
then that’s his decision
the 750 is not just for child support
it’s for the humiliation
exposing her to all kind of crap
the children
maintaining her and the kids’ lifestyle
and i bet a big portion of it is hush hush money
p.s. i didn’t mean to insult you in case you took it that way. cause mojo sure took it that way
I didn't think you were insulting me
Just that my situation and their situation have little to nothing in common. My wife’s potential for earning millions as a quasi-celebrity did not increase a hundredfold when we got married. You can’t compare this to Jack and Jill from down the street. It’s just not the same.
She’s been exposed to all kinds of crap, in a public forum, by Tiger. But how much of this did she also sign up for when she married him? She knew their lives would be under the microscope because of his status as a public figure, and that any apparent problems would be scrutinized openly in the press. So stating that she deserves more dollars because of the public pain inflicted on her is downplaying the fact that she knew of his icon status when they got together.
Furthermore, he has everything to lose by her penning a tell-all book, and she has everything to gain by doing so, so to say that her getting hush money isn’t blackmail of the worst kind is also missing the point. She has all the leverage, because his name being scurried more by her actually damages his earning power while inflating hers.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
My marital status and what my wife thinks about this are inconsequential to this discussion.
You’re trying to frame this as a Men v. Women discussion and it isn’t. Let me put it this way: I get tired of women who want equal pay for equal work, but yet:
- Still think this situation is “fair” for both parties when it clearly is not.
- Still expect men to pay for dates/dinners or anything else required for a chivalous relationship.
If you want things to be “fair”, then EVERYTHING should be on the table, not just how much you get paid in salary. That said, I think everything should be equal for everybody and think that women can be just as successful as men. I am not sexist. I simply see a situation here that is completely one-sided, that’s all.
My wife doesn’t think Elin’s entitled to that amount of money either, actually. In fact, she’s probably more vehemently opposed to it than I am based solely on the argument I just made above — it makes all women look like a bunch of money grubbers when most would just like to earn their own way.
My wife makes a higher percentage of the family income than I do, and we split everything down the middle in terms of care for children and bills. There’s absolutely no way I would ever shake her down for 2/3 of her 401k (which was pretty much all their before we even met) if she cheated on me and we decided to end our relationship. That’s essentially what this is if she gets $750M — a shakedown. If this gets played out in public court, Tiger has everything to lose and she has everything to gain. It’s simply a bad situation for everyone. What is the point of taking that much anyway? What can you do with $750M that you can’t do with $100M (besides purchasing a pro sports team or something)?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i do want equal pay for equal work
but this has nothing to do with fair – tiger is giving her that money, he’s agreeing that this is what she should be paid, no one is twisting his arm to sign under that amount
mrs woods being paid that money doesn’t reflect on me or other women in any way, it only reflects on her. neither does anything other women do. whoever thinks that way, can kiss my ass
i do agree with you one one thing though. once you get married, everything from then on should go splitsies or in the same pot.
I think the issue is whether the norm of agreeing to pay that much is fair
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
In a roundabout way he is being forced.
Because her publicly discussing their marriage is a money making proposition for her and a money losing proposition for him.
Did he put himself in this situation? Absolutely, and he should pay for it.
But being bent over a barrel for 75% of your net worth to buy your ex-wife’s silence is a bit much.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Well, I think it's fair for her to be able to write about it if he doesn't pay up.
He ruined their marriage and this will affect their children.
Also, I know that figure was “reported” but you have to know that it won’t actually be that much.
Regression, bitches.
Well that's all fine and good
mrs woods being paid that money doesn’t reflect on me or other women in any way, it only reflects on her. neither does anything other women do. whoever thinks that way, can kiss my ass
but that certainly isn’t a realistic scenario of how things work. If it was, equal pay for equal work wouldn’t be an issue now would it?
It seems like you’re using the general rules of society for your argument and then arguing against those same rules and guidelines when they don’t fit.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
all of the above for me
and I agree that she doesn’t deserve that much.
I also tell my wife on a regular basis to try and start an affair with a Dr. or a big shot at the hospital she works at so we can black mail him for money so I can be a stay at home dad…
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Maybe Tiger is worth more than “reports” indicate.
And the purpose of a settlement is to resolve the issue without the risk, time and money involved in proceeding to allow a judge to decide. I’m sure Tiger has adequate representation that is advising him whether or not to accept a settlement. It’s not like some runaway jury is deciding this.
DId I say the same thing as you?
I think I did.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
HFS
That’s a lot of money. Just sayin’.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
you're all a bunch of crazy bastards
I’m with the robot on this one
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
congrats
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 28, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
thanx ZZ
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
welcome forsch
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 28, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
congrats
hey, any news from/of your nephew?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Sorry for not getting back to this earlier, cardball.
I saw him at the wedding. He said that he’s starting to get the umps figured out. He told me that they were giving him a zone the size of a fist to start out with. either he’s adjusting to them or they are starting to loosen up the zone a bit.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd congratulate all three of you
Forsch, kalmavet and mysterui
but with time you’ll see that’s nothing to celebrate
ha!
by d-dee on Jun 28, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks anyway d-dee.
I was single for a very long time and that wasn’t always so much fun either.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Congrats
My friend just IM’ed me to tell me he broke off his engagement, so you’ve restored the balance to my last 10 minutes or so.
It's sort of like instant email
Or a text phone call. It means “instant message.” I know, technology these days is nuts.
Glad to give you back a lil mojo.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I never expected anything less.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
So remember when you started this thread about getting married and it devolved into VEB chaos.
I just wanted to take this opportunity at 4:45 pm to say Congrats and please do not read or expose your new spouse to this sub-thread. I do not believe it would be in your best interest.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Yeah, way to get married, jerk
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Thanks to each and every one of you lol
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You were the one who brought up divorce rates.
This is the robots fault.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Given this is VEB and all, I guess I shouldn't be surprised your innocent little comment
indirectly gave birth to a socialogical discussion about divorce and alimony.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
And apparently I can't type "sociological" correctly.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Somehow I have a habit of making fairly small comments and having them take on a life of their own.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 28, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
MaytheForschebewithyou: VEB's psychotropic mushrooms
by YesWeOquendo on Jun 28, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone has to have their niche.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 29, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I want Carpenter to take a suitcase out to the mound with him tonight.
Everyone is on notice. There will be no messing up from the Cardinals. Error free game. Lots of basehits on our side.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan (Musial) by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." - Carl Erskine
my attempt to bring in something positive
although not baseball related
this I laughed at so hard I started crying. feel free to check it out, it’s the 20 worst names and boy is this a collection! please go to the bathroom before you click on the link, i will not be help responsible for any peed pants
thank you, those are great
it is getting a little depressing in here…
youneverknow
by floodOfLove on Jun 28, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
How is Dick Pole not on this list?
Rusty Kuntz made it.
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jun 28, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
dick pole didn't make it because the competition was stiff
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Jun 28, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that list was hilarious, btw - thanks for the good cheer
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
So, maybe Bobby V isn't in line for the Marlins job any more.
Or maybe there’s just some public negotiating going on from either or both sides. Sounds like the making of a train wreck, though.
Also- Fuck the Marlins for bringing in token minorities to interview, if they had no intention of hiring them. If you wanted Bobby V all along, hire him and take the fine like a man Loria.
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jun 28, 2010 1:37 PM EDT reply actions
the marlins owner is a moron
seems very stuck-up. the marlins, in my mind, should never have gotten rid of joe girardi. girardi did a great job for them. ever since then, i’ve been scratching my head on their managerial choices.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Jeff Passan is an asshat
I'm not sure he's a moron...
I’d give the guy a lot of credit…He’s managed to take baseball’s luxury tax and use it to a major advantage…
check out VEB on facebook...just search groups for Viva El Birdos
I don't know how it is in MLB
But I know in the NFL, you are required to interview at least one minority candidate for an open coaching position. I understand the thinking behind the rule, in that they want more minority head coaches. Realistically, however, it seems to me like a rule that’s all about tokenism. In an ideal world, teams would hire the most qualified coach regardless of his skin color. If a team doesn’t want to hire a minority coach, they aren’t going to, even with this rule in place. It seems like a complete waste of time.
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
gives more access to interviewing experience, which is always good
even a token interview where you have no real chance of being hired might be very good practice for an interview later on where you are being seriously considered
On the plus side, it forces a process beyond a guy in charge saying, "I want so and so"
Makes teams put at least some effort into thinking about the hiring process and who they want as a coach. Brings up the possibility that they could be wowed in an interview and hire someone who was not the front runner at the beginning of the process.
MLB is similar and I agree. It's a waste of time.
Loria was fined before for not bringing in minorities to hire, but if his mind was made up what’s the point?
Somehow, these staged interviews seem more insulting than just giving the job to the old white guy they wanted from the start.
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jun 28, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
hopefully bobby v realized that the marlins
are a sucker’s bet, Hanley or no Hanley. Any contract Valentine signed to manage the Marlins would have eaten up half their non-Hanley payroll, and then he’d be wearing Groucho glasses with the likes of Aaron Miles for four years.
As a proud optimist, I ignored the part after the jump.
GO KLOBBY!
Vindicating me for purchasing a Rasmus jersey last June.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
"Just hit baseballs and justify apparel sales. That's all I gotta do."
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
All I wanna do is race, daddy
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
How much of Colby's breakout do we think is real?
I don’t mean to be a downer, I’m just kind of surprised nobody has mentioned it lately, but aren’t Colby’s peripherals a bit out of line with his more basic numbers?
Colby’s BABIP is .348, as compared to a LD% of 16.6% (which is actually lower than last year’s LD% of 19.6%) and his BABIP last year was .282.
HIs ISO is also really high at .296, which ranks third behind Jose Bautista and Corey Hart*, neither of whom is exactly a model of consistency.
Similarly his HR/FB is 20.8%, 6th overall and 2nd behind Joey Votto in the NL.
And from the side of unusually large numbers that you hope are NOT real, his K% of 32.7% ranks 4th behind Mark Reynolds (of course), Justin Upton, and Mike Napoli.
It’s possible that this is Colby’s real talent level or near it, and most of these numbers will continue with this trend, but his BABIP seems pretty likely to drop. He is hitting an awful lot of flyballs, and very few grounders — enough for his GB/FB ratio to rank as the 8th lowest in the majors so the power could very well be real, but I think the overall stat line (BA/OBP/SLG) is due for a drop if/when his BABIP comes back in line with his LD%.
I wish I knew more about what is sustainable regarding HR/FB, ISO, etc., but maybe someone else can offer a more convincing conclusion from Colby’s numbers. Just from glancing at this though, I wonder if Colby might be becoming a bit of TTO sort of hitter.
*All rankings with a min. of 250 PAs
Could Colby Rasmus hit a ball so hard that even he couldn't catch it?
I guess I would be more concerned if he didn't hit the ball so damn hard all the time.
His HR’s are generally no-doubters, his groundballs have little flames coming off of them as they fly on by, and his K’s are smoother than JIF.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
but not... Skippy?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Colby is tied for 2nd in the NL in "Just Enough" HRs with 8
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
how many of those "Just Enough"ers had McGwire highth?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
This is true
Something about his HRs is just so…majestic
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I know it's the best we've got, but hit tracker behaves quite oddly sometimes...
Like the fact that Adam Dunn hit a HR that would be a HR in…. 0 parks. Huh?
But Klobby has smashed 10 balls over 400’, and hasn’t had a lot of wind-assists
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
If you look a little closer you see that some of those
“Just Enough” HR’s were 400+Ft shots to center field. The power seems to be real
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
his higher k-rate probably coincides with the higher babip, compared to last year
instead of the weaker balls he put in play last year for outs, perhaps he’s k’ing instead this year? which means the balls he actually puts in play are hit hard, and so his babip should be higher than last year’s.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i think he is K's more because he is walking more
He is sitting on pitches
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
it might have already been said,
but I wonder what the Yankees would ask for in return for Burnette and his salary? Proverbial Dave Duncan project? I wouldn’t want to pay his salary, but if someone else is, why not give it a shot?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
This has to be the most disappointing team since 1986, right?
I mean, six weeks ago the discussion was whether we’d win 110 or just 100. Best outfield in baseball, best pitching 1-2-3 in baseball, great closer, and Albert Pujols. Why is this freakin team so lame???
Fire La Russa!
If you are talking about most disappointing Cardinals team by mid-season in recent memory,
that is most certainly the 2006 team.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
i disagree
’06 team was nowhere near as good as this team is
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
We got us a a good ol' fashion twitter war!
This is fascinating. Also: I don’t really like BJ Rains
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
it boiled over after months. it was funny
especially since bj rains doesn’t seem to understand that posting on the internet = publishing. even fake people know that.
HEY. what is the dirt on Branyan, so-called VEB correspondent?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Well I haven't really talked to anybody of importance about it
So it’s really just conjecture on my part, but I don’t think anybody here is delusional enough to think that we’re still in the playoff race, so that’s not why we brought him back. My guess is that Seattle wanted to resign him during the offseason, but when his asking price was too high at the start of it, and since Cleveland signed him as a relative bargain, we waited until they dropped far enough out of the race and his asking price was low enough that we could reacquire him. By all means, the prospects that Cleveland received are pretty meh, and it at least shows the fans that we’re trying to improve the offense, so Jack Moore might have a good point that these extra 2 wins might increase revenue by quite a bit.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
thanks mysterui
back to you, DanUp.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Wow, that sentence in the middle is just terrible
Sorry about that… that’s what happens when I go back and forth between VEB and Excel
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Actually, that whole paragraph is a mess
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
we'll clean it up in post
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
any possibility it was a cheap way to send out the message
that they don’t consider themselves out of it and are willing to take a shot, which entails keeping cliff lee, and which also could drive his price up a bit since a team would have to make that more enticing of an offer to make seattle abandon their (fake) aspirations for this season? i saw this speculated somewhere, and thought it was kind of interesting.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
They're out of it... I mean, there's just SO much ground to be made up
The Lee situation is completely separate from this: there are lots of other options in the market apart from Lee. You could go for Oswalt, Sheets, Millwood, Westbrook, etc. There’s no way that the Mariners would take on a $5 million salary in hopes of driving up Lee’s price. The quality of the prospects that you might get back aren’t going to be worth that amount of money
Honestly, this is probably a move to get back to respectability. They’re not going to win the division this year, but they could sniff .500 if they go on a few hot streaks, which will put butts in the seat. Branyan also has a $5 million mutual option for next year, I believe, and that’s a valuable asset as well
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
there will be a bidding war on lee
he’s the number one option, and all the other you named aren’t as good and cost more money, which is fine for a team that doesn’t have the prospects to get lee and doesn’t mind, or prefers, taking on salary to giving up prospects. but for teams like the dodgers and twins who have prospects but no money and are serious contenders, cliff lee will be first on their lists. i think the price will go much higher than one shelby miller.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I don't get how people who wouldn't have a loud, public argument on a streetcorner
are perfectly willing to snipe at each other on public Twitter accounts.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 28, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The internets bring out the worst in people all too often.
Though it is more surprising in cases where there is no anonymity.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
same reason why people get fired over email and guys ask girls out via text....
most people are wussies.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 28, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
A girl asked me out over Facebook last week
I waited like four days before responding because that shit was super-lame.
It's truly bizarre.
The things that people write in emails, post on Facebook, and tweet on Twitter are amazing to me. There seems to be a disconnect between the public nature of what they write. I don’t get it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The written word leaves no room for plausible deny-ability.
I love to communicate via e-mail at work but I try to never put anything into writing that could come back to haunt me.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
dislike is a little strong
he just seems incompetent for the level of responsibilities. also… frequently clueless.
this guy posted the flight tracker for the Cardinals team plane. uh… a lot.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
How ambiguous is this tweet?
From Ed Price:
“A mystery tm (©S.Boras) is on Cliff Lee, & the #Cardinals may be it. Class A RHP Shelby Miller, ’09 1st-rounder, is possible chip. #Mariners”
That’d be a weird bit of symmetry for me…
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Yeah, it's a win-now move that doesn't make sense in the long-run, especially considering the contract Albert's gonna get
We need lots and lots and lots and lots of young players in the system, so that a few of them will be good enough to start on the major league team making the ML minimum
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Especially considering that Carp-Waino-Garcia is a more than capable top 3 for the playoffs
Not afraid to nitpick
and assuming penny is back, we easily have the best rotation
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
But that's the assumption
that keeps bothering me. Why isn’t he back yet? At first he wasn’t going to even need all 15 days. This is another ‘progressing nicely’ story that drives me nuts.
Rains apparently will have an update on his condition soon
"I told you, I don't like to be manhandled!"
Penny is throwing off the mound!!!
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
But...
we could use the first rounder Lee brings to draft a college arm and he’ll likely be ready for the majors before Miller.
Fire La Russa!
I somewhat like this line of thinking
But I’m already attached to Shelby… tough call IMO. I’m not sure a trade for Lee truly solves our problems and makes us a better contender. The offensive problems are a bigger concern. It’s great to have guys in the rotation with low ERA’s, but when our offense is handing them 0 or 1 run games all the time, what’s the point?
RFL for GG!
The only guy I would want to trade for is Dan Uggla
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Uggla would be perfect right now and may be the only outside move we would need. Replace Skip on the roster with Uggla, get Penny back for the second half of the season, and wise up and use players like Craig, Jay, Mather (if he continues to hit), and Greene to fill out the bench and this team looks much more solid. A bench of LaRue, Lopez, Greene, Winn, and Craig is very solid. Lose the dead weight already, Mo.
RFL for GG!
by stxcardsfan on Jun 28, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Losing the dead weight is probably the easiest and least expensive way to significantly improve the team
"I told you, I don't like to be manhandled!"
I know the offense has been the frustrating part...
but when you have Penny, Lohse, Garcia, Ottavino, Suppan, and Hawksworth handling three rotation spots for the next three months, it is likely Cliff Lee would represent a 3-3.5 win improvement. That seals the division.
I don’t see how we could possibly improve that much by trading for a position player – I think we’d have to acquire a really good shortstop. I went on about this the other day, but we could send them Stock and Miller plus Craig/Jay/Henley/DJ and a reliever. That wouldn’t really be that great of a haul for them – once you subtract the two draft picks they would lose it works out to two guys that are barely prospects, about $10 million saved, and a one year jump in terms of development for Stock and Miller. It would be an unmitigated win for us.
Fire La Russa!
i'm on board the lee train
but i don’t know that it won’t take two shelby’s to get him once the bidding war breaks out, and we only have one. maybe cincy (with minny, LA, rocks, etc) has enough to get him, and we’re trying to drive up the price (if we are indeed involved).
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Oswalt is, but Lee is not
and Lee is a Type A.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Shelby? I didn't know that was his name.
I thought it was spelled S-T-A-V-I-N-O-H-A.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 28, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because, clearly, pitching is our problem.
Not the fact that we can’t score more than 2 runs off of Bruce effing Chen or put together a string of more than 5 games where we score more than 2 runs in each.
Last I checked, our offense was below average for the national league, while our pitching was in the top 5 in all of baseball. If we’re buying any pitching, it ought to be a closer, since that’s part of what so royally fucked us in the postseason last year.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
but how much more are you going to spend
on offense
when two of your starters are hurt and you know that you’ll probably drop the bullpen start and soup’s start
and you already dropped all that cash on hollidaisy
make you damn manager bat him in the 2nd spot, drop the dead load, bring the cheap bats from the farm and stick with what works
is it really that hard?
I'm not saying that we should spend anything on the offense.
Just stating that trading our best prospect for a pitcher seems stupid when pitching really isn’t the problem.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
We definitely need pitching...
Lohse, Penny, Garcia, Hawksworth, and Ottavino covering three spots is a major problem.
Fire La Russa!
hmm, sounds familiar
since we discussed this exact deal the other day, i know i’m not the only one who wants mo to get it done.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
anger about royals loss vs. people figuring out how to use the poll without accidentally voting fifty
it’ll be interesting.
Same,
but we could easily be balanced out by people understanding the poll this time.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
what the hell happened between BJRains and that * Strauss?
BJRains used a stat Strauss tweeted and then got ripped to pieces for not referencing him or something?
who knows more?
pretty much, yup.
Strauss did the work, BJ stuck it in the official article. FSM, I think.
This has been building for months, though. his G-D features were about 90% ‘what an interesting resemblance to this guy’s column/blog/feature’ and 10% interesting tidbits.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I don't buy that Twitter is a legitimate and, therefore, copyright capable outlet.
I don’t think you could copyright something you put on Twitter and then claim rights to it if someone else uses it.
Perhaps Strauss should actually write some articles with his incredible writing prowess instead of tweeting everything under the sun and then getting pissed when other people use it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I disagree
I’m not sure what the difference would be, except that twitter kind of sucks. Not that I will ever post anything interesting on twitter, but if I did I’d be pretty mad about it if strauss included it verbatim in his next midnight P-D article.
AFAIK, Twitter would be considered public domain
I guess it comes down to ethical responsibility on the part of the users, though.
FWIW, if Strauss is stupid enough to Tweet something that he wanted to use and then someone else uses it, perhaps he shouldn’t be on Twitter in the first place.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
anything that is an original creation, so long as it meets a certain threshold of originality and creativity is copyrightable
and, the author doesn’t have to do anything. the work is protected as soon as it is created.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
by IHeartBoog on Jun 28, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would be interested to see how that holds up in court though
considering that Twitter is essentially the public domain. When you put something on Twitter, you’re putting it directly into the public domain as far as I can tell. Can you explain why that would NOT be the case?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I really don't know, I'm just going off of what I know about copyright law.
We may find out soon about Twitter though, with the whole blow up over the Twitter feed of Perez Hilton and the Miley Cyrus pictures.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
are you an attorney?
not trying to be rude, just wondering, because maybe i’m missing something.
but AFAIK, that’s not really what “public domain” means. for example, if you give a speech that is broadcast on national television, you’re putting it directly into the “public domain,” so to speak, but you still have © protection in that speech. i can’t just take it and put it in my book as if it were mine.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I think you are misuing the term Public Domain
In copyright law that means when the item is no longer copyrightable (i.e. after the expiration of copyright protection). Merely publishing something does not “put it into the public domain.” If Strauss had an original work of authorship and Rains used for some commercial purpose there could be a claim for infringement.
I'm butting into this thread. What did any of this have to do with copyright law?
Isn’t this an issue of claimed plagiarism? (assuming rains re-published strauss’ work without proper attribution?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 28, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
somewhere up there Fourstick mentioned that there is no copyright protection for
Twitter content. I think that is most likely wrong. Someone else said that it wasn’t copyrightable because you are putting it in the public domain. My point is that is not the “public domain” in the legal sense.
I got that part...
I just meant that copyright law in general was utterly irrelevant to the apparent issue between Rains and Strauss.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 28, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
In this instance
Did Strauss actually “create” what was tweeted or could it have been derived by anyone via publicly accessible knowledge?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
that's the issue.
strauss’ tweet required some research, but i dont think it was creative enough to warrant © protection.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
exactly
anyone could have come up with that
or if someone independently on the other side of the world runs the same numbers after researching them, is * going to whine too?
what a bitch
i was speculating though
i mean, there was a u.s. supreme court case that considered whether the phone book can have © protection.
just because anyone could have come up with it doesn’t make it non-copyrightable. documentaries, research articles, and probably even game recaps are ©-able.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
considering the content
i would tend to side with Rains
he should have given Strauss the reference
but i can see how he’d think he didn’t have to
and i also hate Strauss so..
Couldn't watch the game yesterday
as I had to work, but is anyone else concerned that perhaps Garcia is starting to show some reaction to the workload he has received, as in he is injured?
I am well aware Garcia was meant to regress, but only lasting 2 innings against one of the weakest offenses in the NL? I would believe something is up, but maybe I am just paranoid.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
it happens to everyone some time
Waino last, I remember one Randy Wells fail haha, Big Z with that temper fail after 4 runs… everyone has bad days.
I do agree the work load is extraordinary but for now i choose to pretend it’s just coincidental and thank GOB we’re plying in the NL central
um...
KC isn’t in the NL
and KC is 2nd in the AL in batting average.
Garcia let up a few walks, and then grooved one.
Next inning he was singled to death. Which will sometimes happen to groundball pitchers when playing a high average team.
it's not like we didn't know
that they can beat the shit out of us with singles
i would have rather it wasn’t jaime that it happened to, but oh well
I meant AL
Whatever. Anyway, Kansas City is only a middle of the pack team runs-wise and in pretty much every other category besides BA (In an incredibly weak collection of teams really. Every team in the AL is either pretty good or just shitty.) They are rarely considered an offensive threat.
But really? BA is what you use to prove that KC is a decent offensive team?
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
B.J. Rains:
Cardinals Monday lineup vs AZ: Schumaker 4, Lopez 5, Pujols 3, Holiday 7, Rasmus 8, Molina 2, Ryan 6, Carpenter 1, Winn 9.
no Luddy
Otherwise, that lineup is alright with me
Personally I would put Holliday second and Lopez between Colby and Yadi, but this works, if Luddy is still banged up.
"I told you, I don't like to be manhandled!"
I have no problem with Holliday batting 4th
he seems to have gotten over his RISP phobia
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
didn't he have an RBI single batting cleanup the other day?
(I could be wrong. I thought I was wrong once, but it turns out I was wrong about that)
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
he had a sac fly
he’s the best 4th hitter we have right now
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
even then, when he was hitting the dingers
it was solo or man on first, iirc. i believe he only had a hit once with risp recently.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
this is wrong.... i was pretty sure so i checked every time he batted with RISP in the 2 hole
he was 4-11 with a HR, 5 RBIs, K
not sure what you watching, but he was definitely successfull with RISP in the 2 hole… i honestly don’t think this means anything in relation to the 2 hole though, but he seems to have gotten over his funk with RISP (FWIW, he’s “up” to .220)
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
that was all recently
since the oakland series? ok then, so he what, stopped hitting without risp? i knew the homers but for 1 were without risp, but only recall one other recent hit with risp.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i don't know what you're talking about to be honest
i was simply referencing that you were wrong that you thought he still wasn’t hitting with RISP…..
what do you consider recently? (i didn’t count the last two games because he was batting 4th but adding them i get 0-0 with a sac fly so that helps my case
Seattle series: 1-4
Oakland series: 2-3
Toronto series: 1-2
KC Series: 0-2 (sac fly)
i guess you’re referencing the KC series, but you’re being awfully critical of him considering the low amount of times he actually came up with RISP
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
no, i said recently, since he hit the homers
read my original comment again – sometimes you need to read more carefully, it seems. anyway, that would be the oakland games forward, whenever he batted second.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
oo sorry
yeh that was since the oakland series
4-11 with 6 RBIs and HR
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
lot better than i remembered
i knew only one homer was with risp and the other 3 weren’t vs oakland, but i just don’t remember two of those other hits – i haven’t seen all of each game recently though.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I really hope we don't see the ruturn of 2009-post-hamstring-injury- Ludwick
when he finally makes it back from this calf injury. That would truly be a shame.
RFL for GG!
booo
holliday needs to bat second. colby bats 4th. i don’t see what’s wrong with that.
lopex
holliday
AP
cloby
freese
winn
yadi
pitcher
boog
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
The trouble with that lineup though
Is you essentially have 3 automatic outs in a row (Yadi, Pitcher, Boog)
Then again, I think the problem is all three of those are always in the lineup..(or 2 out of the 3 and the 3 has a poor hitting replacement).
yes, but in the actual lineup, its yadi, boog, pitcher, so its the same thing.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
and yadi really shouldnt be considered an automatic out.
he’ll come around.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
So I figured it out
I need to just get ridiculously good at golf so that when I marry a Swedish supermodel, if I ever cheat on her, people will argue whether me giving her $750 million and still leaving myself with $250 million is fair.
Playing Arizona is confusing for me because
Ctrl + F turns up multiple instances of ‘AZ’ but they are rarely directed at me.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
awesome it would be a great debate tool
when someone says “I never said that” you can say “Go control + F yourself”
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
by TomCat009 on Jun 28, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hope Rasmus is in the home run derby
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 28, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't care if any Cardinal is ever in any HRD again.
Pujols was only in last year because it was in StL. He probably would have declined then too.
It’s fun to watch, but I’m content to watch someone else’s players hack away.
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jun 28, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
JEd's injury made me never
eant another Card in the Derby.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Boy, that escalated quickly... I mean, that really got out of hand fast.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I am going to do the responsible thing
and look for some rally eels.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Brick KILLED a guy!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
i've done more legal work on this blog than i have IRL today
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
We've been missing these lately
It makes work far more interesting
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
dude.... baseball's Selig era is the renaissance compared to FIFA
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
In an attempt to bring this back to baseball just a little
Holy crap, Mat Latos has been awesome this year. He has pitched the majority of his innings away from PETCO and has a road ERA under 3.00.
Are they really scouting ___ _____?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Why are all the leaked reports about starting pitchers?
Starting pitching is the least of our concerns!
by jd is legend on Jun 28, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
We should get an impact bat.
Largest contract in Cardinals history, you say?
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
dont you think maybe they were scouting him for his start against us, and not as a potential pickup?
that would make more sense
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
that's why the scouting rumors are so odd.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yes, just advance scouting of the d'backs
haren makes less sense than lee, and is therefore less likely.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'd say the way things have went lately
that sense haren makes less sense than lee, it is more likely that haren happens.
I don’t want us to give up what it would take to get Haren or Lee, but what makes you think Lee makes more sense?
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
the rental aspect
haren has a fairly team-friendly contract, but i still don’t think we could afford it. lee would just be a few million this year and an opportunity to really go for it in the playoffs – he’s better than haren. they would both cost prospects – yes, lee more, but he comes with picks attached to replace those prospects. (although haren would upgrade our offense).
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
personally and this is just me, but i don't find the lee trade prospects likely at all
if i had to give it a percentage, i’d give it less than 5%…. im pretty confident we aren’t going to go out and get a rental and trade our future for him…. (FWIW, i really don’t think Shelby Miller + whoever else they want is even close to worth it)
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't think we have enough to offer
so i think i give it less than 5% too. we could offer miller ++ but the twins can and would offer more, as could and would other teams. we’d simply be outbid. the minny catcher is better than miller and could start for them tomorrow. i think they prefer that to waiting years for miller, and then a lot can happen in the interim – he’s no guarantee.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i am for that reason and also
i think miller by himself would be a bad idea…. cost-controlled stud (potentially) for 5 years for 4 months of an ace isn’t worth it IMO….
Miller is showing signs of being a stud for now so I say give him a chance…. adding other players with millers would be a horrible idea
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
thank god
someone is paying a higher stupid tax so that the cards are unable to pay the stupid tax
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
just depends on how you value a world series victory
i value one ws trophy more than 5 playoff years with no trophy, and i think lee would make us at least the NL favorite, although i guess if the reds get him the same can be said for them.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
my only problem with this argument is
that having lee one the team doesn’t guarantee us a trophy and it would be an utter disaster if we don’t – that’s too much pressure
whereas in 5 playoff series, the odds are with us that we would win at least one WS with the talent we have going forward
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
but we'd still get to make the playoffs in the years going forward
so their would be that same chance. the difference being we probably wouldn’t be favorites, whereas this year we could be. remember, even though we all thought we should beat the dodgers, they were in fact the higher seed and thus had home field.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
we already have good pitching
you’re trading 6 years of what could be an ace pitcher for a marginal upgrade. the improvement from penny to lee in a playoff series is not worth shelby miller
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
lee would pitch game 1
the 1-0 win.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yes cause lee's ERA is 0.00
don’t act like the team will win every time he pitches…. its not even close to a guaranteed WS trophy
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
there are no guarantees
but our chances would go up immensely. listen, this is all hypothetical chatter, ok, because we don’t have the goods to get lee, so all the miller guys can relax, he is safe. hell, with the two picks you can draft two millers, so why would the m’s trade for only one?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
im not comfortably relying on picks next year
we don’t know whose available and there might not be another miller….
it wouldn’t go up immensely IMO…. Penny if he come back right is a wonderful game 4 starter behind Garcia
i just don’t see the reasoning when the Cards will already (likely) have the better pitching matchup in most games…. Waino likely beats whoever he’s facing, Carp is the best #2 probably, Jaime is one of the best #3s, and there isn’t a better 4th option than Penny
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
but lee is such an upgrade on penny or garcia
lee is a lock not to blow up. put him number one and move carp and waino down a notch and i like those matchups far better. penny is an average pitcher and garcia is a rook. lee is a dominator – look, if he was our game 1 pitcher last year we almost certainly win the dodger series.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
ok but i still am not buying that this advantage
is worth shelby miller + prospects…… im just saying when our pitching is already good enough to be the favorite against almost any team, then it doesn’t need to be improved
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
ah, but is it?
some of that may depend on who gets lee, and some may be the fact that a couple good pitchers might not be enough to carry an anemic offense, if it turns out to be anemic. other teams might have good hitting to go with their good pitching. i probably don’t count on penny and garcia to be playoff stoppers like some. i think they can keep it close, but they could also get knocked around. lee is as sure a thing as they come.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i would fucking revolt if lee were on this team and pitched game 1
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 29, 2010 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i believe the best pitcher should
if you could line it up that way. i think pitching carp or waino ahead of him because of loyalty would make me revolt.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i think there's a little room for debate
about whether cliff lee is better than those two
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
lee is the best pitcher?
ummm this year so far easily, but its not likely staying that way (1.97 FIP is probably not going to happen)
Waino had a 3.11 FIP and Carp had a 2.78 FIP and Lee had 3.11 FIP last year
Lee is projected to have a 3.14 FIP from this point on whereas Waino has 3.04 FIP and Carp 3.48 FIP…
he’s still probably best, but uhh… definittely debatable
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
fip fap
watch a game. the man is dominating. he was at 75/4 k/bb. the only thing that will keep him from the cy is a trade to the national league. don’t just go by numbers or you will be constantly deceived. watch him pitch, his stuff, how cool he is, how he disrupts batters timing, how, unlike waino or carp, he’s money all the time, doesn’t have bad starts. i mean, i’m not dissing carp or waino. it’s no shame to be after lee, considering he’s the best pitcher in baseball right now.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
ignore the numbers
its all in the eyes…. seriously this is poor logic
i admitted he’s been the best so far, but im pretty sure this won’t continue based on past performance
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
um, like last year's performance
i’d say he was maybe the best then too. his numbers might not end up quite this good, but anyone you are comparing him to you could say the same about them.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
but anyone you are comparing him to you could say the same about them.
but anyone you are comparing him to you could say the same about them.
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
yes, glad we agree
i love how people would argue lee’s numbers are bound to get worse, and whoever it is they are a fan of is bound to get better.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i think the line of reasoning
is that the numbers of all players will regress to the mean
my line of reasoning is that among players like lee, lincecum, halladay, wainwright, etc., they are all pretty similar players
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
eh, i guess i have to agree with that
but there’s a big gap between lee and garcia or penny for a playoff game. garcia is a rookie and not overpowering, so he really has to be on. carp and waino can shut teams down without their best stuff and while struggling. and penny i’ve just never been a big fan of. he can have some nice hot spells, and he’s fine as a 3 or 4 in the regular season, but i just wouldn’t want to count on him too much in the playoffs.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
ummm
garcia is a rookie and not overpowering
he’s not tim lincecum but he strikes out his fair share of batters….
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions
ok, so is there anything in that quote
that is incorrect? there are overpowering pitchers who don’t strike out a lot of hitters, too. strikeouts are not the be-all end-all.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
well
i think garcia is overpowering when he’s on so i disagree with that…
since when is 7.29 K/9 not overpowering?
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions
hmm, well you're the only person
i’ve ever heard describe garcia that way, so…i’m not going to debate if he’s overpowering. take a poll and you might be the only yes vote.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
seriously.... i don't get it
i know in 4 years if Miller is the real deal, I’ll be pissed…. and most people will slam the trade
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
and i'll create a meme
where i won’t ever say his name and i’ll act like i’ve never heard of him
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
hmmm
this reminds me of something……
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
if we aren't hitting, lee is even more valuable
a 3 man of he carp and waino, with jaime as the 4th if needed, is a pretty good run prevention staff, because we can’t count on our offense, and there is no way to change that with one move.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
this is a carbon copy of the logic
defending the z to the bullpen thing earlier in the year
you should familiarize yourself with the concept of diminishing returns
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
no idea what you are talking about
are you saying you would rather have garcia or penny pitch in the playoffs than lee because he is only a “marginal” upgrade. haha, he’s a huge upgrade for that single game. in fact, he would probably be the number one choice of most people to pitch the deciding game in a playoff series. where would garcia or penny rank on that list?
again, no idea about the z to the bullpen thing. explain if you want, but i don’t see how such a move really needs any discussion.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I hate the Lee hype
more than anyone but he is posting a 19.00K/BB rate right now
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
nobody i would rather have pitch a game 1 or 7
i don’t know how one could overvalue the best pitcher in the game at present.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Well If ubaldo gets some some rest with DLR
returning I would like that matchup, Strasburg, Halladay, Johnson would all be good 1 on 1 but Lee has been stellar no doubt.
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
in the other thread
watching ubaldo, i wanted him taken out as soon as he gave up the hit. let him get some rest. tracy rides him too hard, just like when he was sick and he hung him out there to dry. oh well, at least ubaldo picks up another win. tracy is really hurting his numbers though by leaving him in too long.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
eah when I heard he only hit 95 on the third
strike to Gonzalez I knew he was gassed in early june he hits 98 at least on that high heat
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
yeah, saw that pitch
but i wouldn’t have had him pitch to gonzo, even though he k’d him. just take the man out, let him rest and pick up the win, and stop killing his numbers!!
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He owns Gonzo though
13K’s in 24 AB
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
ok, but then take him out?
how do you do that – just give the kid a break now and then.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I agree he needs a break
maybe they could let him skip a start
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
you overvalue him
by wanting to give up 6 years of good, cheap pitching for the difference of 2-3 runs in a playoff game
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
i am not sold on the 6 years of good cheap pitching
are you guaranteeing that? he’s still so far away. matias looks good, and this hs qb is definitely a top arm, and we can pick more with the lee picks, so i don’t think miller is quite as irreplaceable as you seem to think.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
were not guaranteed a first round pick
and we’re definitely not guaranteed a similar talent
no, i’m not guaranteeing that shelby miller will work out. the opportunity cost of getting lee is immensely higher than that of keeping miller
i don’t want to revel in mediocrity for years on end for a slight increase in wourld series probability
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Miller is really good and young
Carp is 36 and Jaime looks like an amazing 3rd starter but Waino will need a true 2 with him, so I probably have to agree with you
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
maybe matias can be that
maybe “the qb” can be that. chances are that not all are going to work out. so trading based on the rationale that we can just draft another next year is absurd. we need to keep the players and draft another the next year so that the number which work out go up. shelby miller alone isn’t going to carry the 2014-20 cards
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
if giving up miller will cause years
of mediocrity, then we are doing something seriously wrong and better pray he never gets injured. and why wouldn’t lee get a first round pick – this’ll be a good deep draft, too.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
if the worse 50% of the teams in baseball sign him
if he signs with a team that signs multiple free agents and the first round pick gores to a different team
and yes, if giving up miller will cause years of mediocrity, yes, we are doing something wrong. like trading away all our high end prospects for expensive veterans
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
lee isn't expensive
it’s not like we are getting stuck with a contract.
if a team signs multiple free agents, surely lee will be the best one they sign, no? i imagine the yanks will sign him, so if they sign crawford and/or werth, are either of those too higher rated, or do we know that yet?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
lee is expensive
in prospects and will get a huge contract
if lee keeps up his current pace (totally likely!) he’ll probably be the best free agent. there’s a lot of season left to play
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
if he's the best, then the pick is a lock, right
no matter who else the team signs?
hey, lee will get a huge contract, but that’s not our concern – we aren’t paying it (unless they blow my mind and take him over pujols)
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
we are paying him miller
and his cheap, cost-controlled salary for 5 years
that’s enough to say no for me
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
well, i hope miller makes it to the bigs
one day, and sticks around long enough to make passing on lee worth it, if miller is all it would take (actually would take 2 millers, i think). it’s a crapshoot, after all. we’re not talking about strasburg, who was drafted and ready for mlb to be a sure thing.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i think his point is that let's say miller is traded
and when miller would conceivably be ready carp would already be gone…. we don’t know how good Garcia is going to be….. Let’s assume he’s 4.00 FIP or less
so we have Waino (whose contract runs out soon as well), Garcia, Lynn probably (we also don’t know how well he will do)…. after that who knows… maybe Matias or someone else
giving up miller who will be cheap for quite a while is a huge expense in the end as our starters will soon not be as good as now
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
miller won't be ready to step in for carp
so we will need someone at some point to fill that gap anyway – somebody like the penny signing, a 1 or 2 yr deal.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
he could be ready by 2012
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions
he's in quad cities
2012 is not likely at all. 2013 maybe.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i think you get my point though
he’ll be here when carpenter/waino is gone (im not saying its likely, but im not going to brush it off as not likely at all)
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions
so we should get rid of him
and have the exact same problem when waino moves on or loses effectiveness?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
look, matias and the qb are only
a year younger than him. there are other pitchers in the minors too. and college guys drafted and to be drafted that are closer to the bigs than miller.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
it's kind of pointless
discussing anything with you as i’ve already addressed this
first of all we haven’t signed matias or the qb and even assuming we do it’s not like we’re gonna have too much talent. and if they all make it and are all good, oh no the cardinals will be good and we can sign whatever big hitter you’re lusting after that year!
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
eh, i don't think we can sign any
big hitters for awhile. the holliday contract sort of screwed us there. besides, i never lust after hitters too much. i’m a pitching and defense guy so long as albert is around and productive, and promote position guys from the system. we could have had craig starting all year in left and have the same record with lots of money to spare for some nice parts here or there.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Wainwright seethes
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Cigarette, anyone?
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
with what injury?
and holy shit that means aaron miles is going to play… i haz a sad
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
His ankle is still bothering him from when he turned it on third base.
Happened almost a month ago.
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 28, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm guessing it was the surgically-repaired ankle?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Both were injured in the car accident last year, I believe.
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 28, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
then there's the other ankle?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ah, i thought only one was operated on
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Not possible, he's in the lineup!
(fingers in ears)
LALALALALALALALALA
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jun 28, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
You think?
And why is Holliday batting 4th again? He went 400/442/850 in 10 games batting 2nd. 1-7 since he got switched back. Not that I put much stock in this, but we’re grasping for anything at this point.
Fire La Russa!
Tony thinks it is too much pressure for someone so young to be the leadoff hitter
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
no not seriously
Sounds like you are more upset that Rasmus isn’t batting 4th than that Holliday is.
1.) Holliday states an adjustment in his swing is the reason for his recent resurgence. Not his position in the order.
2.) Since we are putting stock into Holliday’s 1-7 over the last two days, Rasmus has hit .231 /.375 /.231 comparied to Hollidays .287 /.354 /.440
I think Freese should go to the DL
“It just really hasn’t gotten any better,” Freese said. “At this point, you have to look at the big picture here. Me trying to toughen through it over the last three weeks just wasn’t helping us.”
Bring up Greene.
And now Tony says:
“We are really concerned about how much time Freese is going to miss.”
Then put him on the DL. Let him heal.
I think he has to miss an entire week
before they think of putting him on the DL. We’ve already reached out quota of players put on the DL right when they needed to be (Lopez). It’s like this team thinks it’s a better idea to play a man short for a week to 10 days , instead of putting someone on the DL and not having them try to play when they shouldn’t be. This might be the most frustrating thing that this team has done consistently for the last several years.
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
at least the DL is retroactive
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
but you're still playing a man short for an extended period of time
that’s what pisses me off more than anything.
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
yeah, me too, was just saying, at least...
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I have a hard time believing Craig could be any more nightmarish at third than Miles
Or hell, if they just don’t like Craig, give Mather some playing time. Gah, this effin roster construction and general mismanagement has got to stop.
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
one issue is that craig unlike miles
would be great offensively…. at least potentially… miles… not so much
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 28, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Is there anyone who can defend A. Milesbeingontheroster now?
He’s on the active roster. Ideally the teams 4/5/6 will be Skip, Lopez, Boog for the next three games, but TLR will still try to play matchups and all kinds of other nonsense, so Miles will undoubtedly start one of these games if The Iceman can’t play. Tyler Greene is faster, can play any of those three positions better than Miles, and actually has some toolsy skills that could translate into results. Miles has nothing but a sweet goatee and a great fightoffanattacker story. And now, he’ll probably play and start a game while the team’s coming off a series loss to Kansas F’ing City and fighting for first place. Awesome.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and of course, there's Craig too
But I guess it’s already been decided he can’t play 3rd. For an organization that played Joe Thurston at that same position last year. Ugh.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 28, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
How about Lohse for Zambrano?
The Cubs wouldn’t want to deal inside the division, but they’d save $17 million and we’d get a much better pitcher. Do it!
Fire La Russa!
1) They wouldn't save $17 million
2) NTC, like RR said
3) I don’t think Zambrano is MUCH better
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Oh, over the course of the contract
My bad
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Could be worse.
At least it’s recognizable.
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 28, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
before i leave
i wrote sort of a recap on the week and adam ottavino’s struggles…. read here if you wish
(ignore the standings, i learned though don’t tell us anything)
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
anyone know
where I could find the batting line by position?
Like 1st baseman hit .285/.360/.500; 2nd basemen hit .250/.350/.450, etc? Prefer it’s broken down by year and league.
I'm pretty sure that's on B-R,
I can check when I get home.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
It's been said before,
but that sight is hell to navigate.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Strasburg actually getting hit pretty hard
Braves just flicking 98 the other way but I’m pretty sure that approach is going to fail miserably once he starts coming inside.
Not afraid to nitpick
that's what the royals did too
flick away early, don’t get down 2 strikes.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
vs strasburg, not us
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
And now he's just getting everyone to roll over on changeups
Not to mention he’s backed that down 88-90 even though he’s sitting 97-100 with his FB. This might be as good of stuff as he’s had though the command doesn’t look quite there.
Not afraid to nitpick
Hawksworth claims if he were to grow a beard, it would be outstanding.
The Cat tries to make him choose between the starters and the bullpen.
The Cat’s words: “Is it a higher-rent district…?”
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Ok, I'm not gonna wade through all this
Can anybody be really awesome and sum up the baseball information from the day? I got that Freese is still injured and Ludwick is still injured (I think). Is there anything else? Did Colby quit the team to live his real dream of starting his own bourbon distillery? Did Albert reveal himself to actually be from the future? Did Carpenter decide he Doesn’t Give A Fuck About Marriage Subthreads and bash in the SBNation servers with a titanium-plated Samsonite?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Marriage Thread
I’ll admit that I, too, succumbed to the urge and participated;
but seriously VEB, what the fuck?
I don't give a fuck who you confuse me with.
the marriage subthread was funny
the divorce subthread…not so much
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
by mattyfrommo on Jun 28, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So is Luddy now in the line-up?
MLB.com is showing him in RF, and batting in the 9 hole.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2010_06_28_arimlb_slnmlb_1
guess they are willing to put him in now that Freese is out for the series?
RFL for GG!
anyone? Bueller, Bueller, Bueller?
or is everyone too busy talking on the marriage thread to talk about the possible return of Ludwick?
RFL for GG!
everyone is exhausted and taking cigarette/alcohol breaks
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Yes new thread
This one needs to be locked to protect ourselves from ourselves.
Not afraid to nitpick
i just realized i'm going to be blacked out of this game.
ffffffuuuuuu
(did i do that right?)
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
It'll probably be on TV for you, right?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Ken Burns!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
don't forget the yardwork...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'll say it again
I would trade Lohse for Zambrano. Put it this way, would anyone else like to cut Lohse and then sign Zambrano to a 2 year/12M deal?
Not afraid to nitpick
cubs want to get rid of him bad
but they wouldn’t send him to us, and tony wouldn’t ok it anyway. if lohse comes back healthy, he’s as good a z and less of a headache. if not, he’s still less of a headache, and far cheaper.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
zambrano is better than lohse
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
not really
lohse pre-injury was better than zambrano now, and far cheaper, and less of a headache.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
this isn't true though
idk last year Zambrano was better than Lohse pre-injury
Lohse 2008: 3.89 FIP, 3.78 ERA, 3.1 WAR
Zambrano 2009: 3.61 FIP, 3.77 ERA, 3.6 WAr
Zambrano’s was more recent and remember this was Lohse’s career year meaning this was probably best-case scenario (you could argue he could do this, but until he comes close, that doesn’t hold much ground)
Zambrano’s 2010 i think is a fluke and its worth a gamble… Also his FIP is 4.14 and its not out of reason to think he can improve
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
ok, so they were essentially the same pitcher
but fat z makes a lot more and he is as big a problem as milton bradley – would you want milton bradley? i know some here did, but neither i nor the cards would touch him with a ten-foot pole. same with big z. for that reason it’s really a moot point.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
im not taking money into consideration
you said Lohse was better which is wrong… and no they aren’t the same pitcher
we don’t know what we’re getting out of lohse if his injury heals – ;08 was best case scenerio whereas Zambrano we pretty much know we are getting 4.00 FIP or better
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
well, off the top of my head i gave lohse the edge
i see z had .01 better era, so yes, technically i am wrong i guess. but better includes more than just the numbers. even taking money out of it, zambrano’s meltdowns would mean he wouldn’t last in st lou anyway, so might as well be the injured one. so yes, despite the .01 i think lohse is better for the team than big z.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
you obviously don't know a lot about kyle lohse
but the discussion is about who is a better pitcher and zambrano is clearly the better bet going forward from a pitching performance perspective
poopy pottery pals playing pantry pots
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
you obviously don't know your ass from a hole in the ground
but hey, you talk a good game of baseball. i think you could impress someone who doesn’t have decades experience in the game, or at least someone who has never seen a game. it all sounds good, unless someone knows better.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
but then it continues to sound better
because he who"knows right" is incapable of articulating how he knows better in an intelligent and cohesive manner
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
and what i was referring to you
implying that lohse has never had his carlos zambrano moments
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
yeah, so lohse hasn't had those moments
something wrong with that? i’ll take back the ass from hole in ground comment though.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
lohse HAS had those moments
ergo, you obviously don’t know much about kyle lohse
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
know, i did not know he got into fights with teammates
called out his teammates, etc. what happened?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the most notable incident
was beating down his manager’s office door with a baseball bat
it should be noted that i’m not comparing him to zambrano, just saying he’s had zambrano moments
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
what manager was he trying to get?
i’ve never heard this. can’t imagine he went after anyone in minny, and if it was tony i think he’d be long gone.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
it's a pretty well-documented thing
they were talking about it during his start against minnesota
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
huh, i'll have to look it up
gardy must have been cool with it if he wasn’t immediately shipped out. but yeah, that’s a little different than going after a teammate. even apu gets into spats with tony. i’ll have to see what i can find on it. probably more comical than the z stuff, though lohse doesn’t have a mental issue like z, so maybe i shouldn’t pick on z. i know he promised last year after the opening day incident that it would never happen again, for the umpteenth time, but of course it was going to and did.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i don't think
that “a zambrano moment” is exclusively defined as going after a teammate
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
well, it's when he's crazy and raging
whatever he’s going after he’s totally out of control. but the man needs help. i won’t say anything about the lohse incident until i find out about it, but it sounds like one incident rather than repeated, and i don’t know if he was out of control. i’ve certainly taken a bat to a few things but i wasn’t in a blind rage. let’s just say there’s no comparison between z and lohse on this, or apu going off, or carp or rolen or edmonds. big z is another level.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
If you're a grown man beating down a door
with a baseball bat, you’re raging. It’s pretty simple.
Regression, bitches.
yes, but it didn't happen is all
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i just read the article from the twins mlb site
it was from 2005. lohse was pissed after being removed from the game. he didn’t have a bat and it wasn’t in front of everyone. it was in the clubhouse in the middle of the game and as he walked through he punched a couple doors, one of which was gardy’s office door. he put a dent in it and hurt a finger in the process, so it was kind of news. not exactly much more than apu knocking over the bubble gum and tony telling him “that’s enough”
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the punched the door handle off of gardenhire's door?
you are just absolutely incapable of conceding the most minor details aren’t you?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
he wasn't going after gardenhire
as you suggested. it was just a door, one of several he hit. it wasn’t in the dugout, or public view. this happens all the time, and is nothing like big z or milton bradley, nor was apu’s dugout tantrum when he knocked stuff over. you could find an example for just about every single player, but that doesn’t make them a cancer or hothead like big z.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
what are you frickin talking about
you said lohse had a zambrano incident. i read the article from 95 and it doesn’t agree. where did you get this bat information? sorry, you were wrong, and there was nothing there that doesn’t happen all the time. i wouldn’t go calling people dense if i were you. first of all, remember not to say something you wouldn’t say to someone in person. secondly, be right before you consider calling someone dense, and then when shown to be wrong, do not be dense yourself by not comprehending this fact.
and i’d feel more comfortable with you calling me dense if you graduate as valedictorian first. then we can talk. until then, keep it in check. thanks.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
why you call i am dense?
where did you get this bat information?
Minnesota pitcher Kyle Lohse damaged the door to Twins manager Ron Gardenhire’s office Tuesday night after being removed from a game against Texas after two innings, according to newspaper reports Thursday.
Lohse may have injured a finger in the tirade, according to the St. Paul Pioneer Press and the Minneapolis Star Tribune. X-rays on the finger showed no damage.
The red door next to Gardenhire’s office was dented with several scratch marks and was missing a handle. Lohse apparently used a baseball bat on the door.
The team was traveling to Cleveland on Thursday …
On Tuesday night, Lohse damaged the door to Gardenhire’s office with a baseball bat after being pulled from a game after only two innings.
Minnesota pitcher Kyle Lohse damaged the door to Twins manager Ron Gardenhire’s office with a baseball bat Tuesday night in a tirade for being pulled from a game against Texas after two innings
Minnesota pitcher Kyle Lohse damaged the door to Twins manager Ron Gardenhire’s office with a bat Tuesday night
yes, but it didn’t happen is all
there was nothing there that doesn’t happen all the time
care to share?
also
but that doesn’t make them a cancer or hothead like big z.
it should be noted that i’m not comparing him to zambrano, just saying he’s had zambrano moments
so, to answer the question posed in the title of this post: your reading comprehension sucks, you make stuff up and you miss the point
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
haha
why didn’t you post these quotes before? i read the article from 1995 twins.com site and it said nothing about a bat. i then commented, as i said i wouldn’t comment until i read the article. so then, when i said the article said nothing about a bat, which it didn’t, then why didn’t you cite these other sources then? instead you for some reason made this idiotic comment about being dense, and then furthered it by questioning my reading comprehension and claiming i make stuff up. what did i fail to comprehend? what did i make up? i comprehended the article i read very well, and by stating what it said, how did i make something up? i believe you are getting the order of things confused. don’t call someone dense and say they can’t comprehend and THEN post these quotes. give me an opportunity to read and comprehend them FIRST. sorry to call you out, but really, you can’t expect someone to comprehend something BEFORE they read it. to do so would be pretty dense on your part.
the more important point is, you said lohse had had zambrano moments. you intimated that he had gone after gardenhire with the bat, or that gardy was in his office and lohse was trying to get at him by breaking down the door with the bat. the game was in the second or third inning, gardy was in the dugout, and lohse was essentially alone in the clubhouse. this shit happens all the time. it was not a zambrano moment and you were very misleading about the incident by implying that lohse was after gardy. except for him hurting his finger, this was a non-public non-incident. you can’t equate that with what zambrano pulls. now i will find the article and post a link – you can read it and see where a bat is mentioned, because perhaps i just couldn’t comprehend – or perhaps it was mentioned and i am making up that it wasn’t. now, what point did i miss again?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
here's the article from their mothership:
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
you intimated that he had gone after gardenhire
when?
this shit happens all the time
that contradicts this
If you’re a grown man beating down a door
with a baseball bat, you’re raging. It’s pretty simple.
Regression, bitches.
by spants on Jun 29, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
yes, but it didn’t happen is all
but feel free to share other similar instances. though, it seems strange that an every day occurrence like that would be such big news. color me surprised that players regularly go on baseball bat-welding rampages
what point did i miss again?
Jun 29, 2010 5:25 PM CDT:
but that doesn’t make them a cancer or hothead like big z.
Jun 29, 2010 1:39 AM CDT:
it should be noted that i’m not comparing him to zambrano, just saying he’s had zambrano moments
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
you did intimate that he went after gardy
i guess you could say by dint of first exaggeration and then omission.
you said he beat down his manager’s door, which is an exaggeration in that he hit it with a bat which broke the door handle but did not break down the door. saying it as you did also suggests that said manager was on the other side of that door. so i responded:
“what manager was he trying to get?
i’ve never heard this. can’t imagine he went after anyone in minny, and if it was tony i think he’d be long gone.”
by cardball on Jun 28, 2010
you responded “ron gardenhire” and followed it up with “it’s a pretty well-documented thing”. so you left me thinking that you were saying he went after gardy – either you mistakenly did think that, or you knew better but by omission of clarification intentionally left me thinking that. i even then said it was different than going after a teammate and you responded it doesn’t have to be a teammate to be a zambrano moment, implying it could be a manager as well. i then said i would look it up because i wasn’t really buying it, and the above article is all i found. it didn’t mention a bat, and also tells a different story than the one you painted. the one you painted did not happen. it was not a zambrano-moment as you called it. he didn’t beat down a door, he hit it with a bat because it was there not because he was trying to get through it to the manager. hitting a door with a bat with “no one” around is not a “bat-wielding rampage” any more than drinking a beer and going to sleep is “passing out blind drunk”. using colorful language to describe a triviality just might be considered hyperbole.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah, i could see how you thought that
lohse “trying to get” gardenhire is kind of ambiguous. i thought you just meant, like, trying to get back at him. i didn’t know whether or not gardenhire was in his office, but i would have doubted that he was in there hiding from kyle lohse
thing is, i don’t think that beating a door with a bat until the door handle is no longer attached (qualifies for my definition of “beating down a door”) is as common place as you think it is. it’s definitely not the same as albert throwing his helmet, which you compared it to, and i doubt it’s the kind of thing that a manager would take lightly based on lohse and gardenhire’s public media battle following the incident
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
fair enough
i guess i just give a little more leeway when it is out of the public, and camera’s, eye is all, but yeah, it was more of an incident than albert throwing the helmet, just not quite z hitting the gatorade with a bat in public view and around his teammates in the dugout.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
see the problem is that you act like Lohse will pitch like '08
which we aren’t sure about… that’s my issue with this logic…. once again it has nothing to do with money or his breakdowns… purely whose better
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions
and z is one of the worst pitchers in baseball this year
going forward i would project him to continue that, whether out of the cub bullpen, which he will never escape in chicago, or as a starter for some desperate team that took him as long as chicago paid the contract. just see how many teams try to get big z – certainly there will be a line around the block, right, especially with chicago willing to pay the contract? this will tell us how good big z is rated by big league professionals.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
seriously? His FIP is 4.14
He’s getting EXTREMELY UNLUCKY…. so that is just plain false
.377 BABIP and 65.5% LOB rate – career rates are .284 and 73.7%
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
ok, let's watch the line form then
gm’s will likely be throwing blows trying to get the man
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
why does this matter?
im talking about how good he is… stop throwing out stuff not related to how good he is…. plus a 6.00+ ERA isn’t appealing i don’t think GMs use FIP
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
they know about it a group of them put stock in it
but they probably don’t trust it enough to bring on an over sized basket case like Z
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students
are you saying you can look up and
read a fip number but they can’t? i’m sure they have more advanced stuff than anyone here is privy to. and they are better judges of talent than most anyone here. so if they don’t want him for free, what does that say about z?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
its not like they can't
but i highly doubt they make their decisions based off this and they probably shrug it off
also Z’s “issues” are most of the reasons for why he GMs are going after not his performance
since im purely debating from a performance issue that isn’t a fair argument
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
*why GMs are NOT going after him
sorry
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
if gm's shrug off fip...i'd go with whatever
they base decisions on.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
because GMs are known to make the most intelligent moves every time
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
there's always a couple bad ones
just like bad doctors, but in general i think mo knows his stuff, and he’s about average.
the zito contract is a trap they all fall into, even the best. like us with holliday, the soriano and z deals, lee in houston. that’s a problem with evaluating value, something not necessary if big z is free. then it is just a matter of evaluating talent, which they are all pretty good at. in fact sabean is known as one of the best talent evaluators around – he just can’t put proper values on it. so if they think z has talent that overrides his insanity, there will be a lot of takers. we’ll see.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i wouldn't
Steve Phillips was a GM remember…. just because they are a GM doesn’t mean they know what they are doing…
and uhh you missed my point – zambrano would be picked up if it was for his explosion and his contract purely based on peformance
saying a GMs aren’t wanting him is unfair when grading his performance
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
damnit what is wrong with me
*if it wasn’t for his explosion and etc.
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 29, 2010 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions
read above
he’ll be free, or relatively, so take the contract out. they will decide based only on his talent, and they are generally good at that.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
more like 90 nowadays i'm afraid
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Does Tony now hate pencils with erasers?
if Luddy is well enough to play, why the eff do they have him batting ninth, in a lineup with Molina & Ryan?
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
I really hope we somehow luck into a WS title
so that he can leave on a high not. Of course if that happens, he might wanna stick around for another 10 years.
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
All I know is that ATG
he is batting 9th and playing rightfield. Hopefully gameday is mistaken
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
uh, Carp already looks angry.
talking to Duncan … looks like mechanics. or how best to throw a man to the ground.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
"Here's what I would do if a bear charged at me..."
by Ghostrider520 on Jun 28, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Motte never saw it coming.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
get you asses in gear!
three pitches in already
Carp doesn’t like it when you’re late
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Carp Hit!!!
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
they bolt out of the dugout to get motte out of the game
but Carp is nailed on the pitching arm and they are all IDGAF?
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
they were all standing
but they all looked frightened. of Carp.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
CARP HIT ON FOREARM
SWELLING VISIBLE
BARRY PISSIN’ HIMSELF ON TOP STEP OF DUGOUT
JAIME LOOKS BEMUSED
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Carp's blood, sbn is slow for me
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Good read by Skip
'Real women know that the way to a man's heart...is through a melee attack!' - KB
Formerly known as The_teague
choosy moms choose him.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Rolen now has 17 HRs?
I still find myself rooting for him. I just wish the Reds would get back to their losing ways.
All's well that ends well....
IS STILL NOT WELL!
how are there 140 new comments???
do i want to read them?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
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