2010 Draft Preview Going to Eleven: Persons of Interest Three
I'm not going to talk about the game last night. It was far too frustrating, and I seriously doubt my ability to be even somewhat rational about it. So I just won't even try.
I also won't talk about how frustrating it was to see, after believing my team smart enough to have finally kicked him to the curb, Aaron Miles back in a Cardinal uniform. I won't talk about how much it pissed me off to see the ovation, either. Nope. Just not going to talk about anything that happened last night.
The draft is less than a week away, mock drafts are all over the place, and I've covered about as many players as I'm going to cover this year. Of course, it doesn't matter; I'm sure the Cards will find some way to draft a player I haven't written about. Two years ago I wrote a post about players who were essentially just bats, and I covered Justin Smoak, Yonder Alonso, and Eric Hosmer. There was one other player under consideration for the post; a kid out of Arizona State named Brett Wallace. In the end, I decided to go with the other three, and of course Wallace ended up the Cards' pick. Last year I covered a ton of pitchers, of virtually all shapes, sizes, and demographic, but skipped over Shelby Miller because I didn't feel there was any chance he would fall to the Cardinals. There's no way he'll still be sitting there at 19, my thinking went, so it's okay I missed him. Shelby is now the Cards' top prospect.
So who will it be this year? I have no idea. I scan the lists of players I've covered, and I'm sure the Cardinals should at least be able to find someone amongst all my draft reports they like. And yet somehow I'm utterly convinced they'll draft someone I didn't see coming.
Anyway, I've got one more batch of random players I find interesting for one reason or another. These aren't first-round guys, they're just players whose names I'll be watching for as teams start calling out their futures on draft day.
Ross Wilson, 2B, University of Alabama
The brother of former Alabama quarterback John Parker Wilson, Ross Wilson is a very athletic middle infielder with plus speed and actions in the field. He had an outstanding freshman season at Alabama, and then played even better as a sophomore, posting a 1.023 OPS while playing plus defense, and looked as if he would be a premium draft pick in 2010. He showed averagish power and an ability to get on base at a high rate to go along with solid glovework.
Unfortunately for Wilson, he hasn't performed at all up to those standards this season, as his OPS has fallen over 250 points. He still receives high marks for his speed and athleticism, though, and while his plate approach has taken a step back this year, it hasn't fallen completely apart. In spite of his middling numbers, Wilson still brings a lot of very good physical tools to the party, and could make an excellent pickup for a team willing to work with him to try and rediscover the potential he showed his first two seasons in college. I really like Wilson a lot, and would love to see the Cards take a flyer on him somewhere in the middle rounds.
Josh Spence, LHP, Arizona State
Spence is a college senior, which could make him an attractive pick somewhere along the line if a team is trying to save a little, for instance if a team had a couple extra early picks. (hint, hint) He hasn't pitched at all this season because of a nerve problem in his elbow, but was drafted in the third round by the Angels last year.
Spence has very little in the way of stuff, but he's consistently put up excellent numbers throughout his college career. (He was a juco transfer player.) He works his offspeed pitches well, and changes his arm angle around a little here and there to make it tough on hitters. In other words, he's every bit the classic crafty lefthander, and somehow those guys seem to always find a job.
Spence's ceiling isn't much to talk about, but he lacks leverage in the draft and probably could move quickly through a minor league system if he's healthy. A team taking him will be looking for affordability and depth; in other words, he's not really my type of draft pick. Still, if he comes in to pro ball and can even turn himself into a LOOGY at the major league level, that's a savings right there as you don't have to pick a guy up off the free agent market.
I read somewhere Spence could also take a medical redshirt and play another season, but I don't know enough about the rules of college athletics to know whether that's feasible or not. Maybe one of you is more acquainted with the NCAA procedures and could help me out.
Mark Canha, 1B, UC Berkeley
We've seen in the past the Cardinals like to draft defensively limited players with big bats in the middle rounds (think Mark Hamilton), and Canha falls squarely into that category. He's a big, strong thumper from the right side of the plate who controls the plate well and punishes mistakes. Canha had a huge sophomore campaign, with a 1.084 OPS in 53 games. His numbers this year aren't as good; his OBP has barely changed (.450 to .446), but his slugging percentage has fallen over 100 points. It's possible it's just a case of him not getting as much to hit, but I don't know one way or the other, as I don't have any game video of him.
Actually, I should probably compare Canha to Allen Craig instead of Mark Hamilton, as Canha did start part of this year in right field, and there's some thought he could play an outfield corner at the next level. He has average speed, and a strong throwing arm that would fit nicely in right. Regardless of what position a team might envision him playing, you're drafting Canha for his bat, and that bat is legit. He's got big-time power, though he's probably just an average pure hitter. If recent history is any indicator, it wouldn't be at all surprising to see the Cards at least take a good long look at Canha in the ~4th round or so.
Mitchell Shifflett, OF, Cosby High School (Virginia)
Mitchell Shifflett is fast. No, wait. Let me restate that. Mitchell Shifflett is fast. There. Now the word fast looks sort of fast. (I wish I could add little contrails to it, but I don't seem to have a font like that on my computer.) And really, even fast looking fast may not be enough to describe how fast Mitchell Shifflett is.
Mitchell Shifflett has been clocked running a 6.11 in the 60 yard dash. That's really, really fast. He gets from the right side of the plate down to first base in just about four seconds, which is still fast, but not quite as off-the-charts fast as his raw speed times. I'm not sure if that's something he could improve upon or not.
Beyond being fast, Shifflett has plenty of potential in other areas, as well. He's an outstanding defender, thanks in large part to his ability to simply run the ball down, and has a decent throwing arm. It isn't the strongest, but he's fairly accurate and does a good job of throwing where he needs to, not always a given for a high school player.
At the plate, he shows good contact ability and decent plate discipline, especially for a player coming out of high school. He doesn't show much in the way of power, but he has plenty of room to grow and it's possible he could develop some down the road. Even if he doesn't, he could very well end up a useful hitter in that Brett Butler/ Juan Pierre mold; a speedster at the top of the lineup who can get on base and use his legs to get creative. Add that to his ability to go get the ball in the outfield, and he could be a very solid player for someone down the road. Obviously, he has too many holes in his game to go high in the draft, but as a bit of a project guy, Shifflett offers pretty remarkable athleticism.
Plus, he's fast.
Shoot. I've got to go, guys. Something came up. I had a couple more players I wanted to cover, but it doesn't look like I'm going to get to them. Sorry to cut this off so suddenly, but I've got to do it.
The Baron's Playlist for the 2nd of June, 2010
"Come See About Me" - The Afghan Whigs
"They All Laughed" - The Spinto Band
"Already Died" - Eagles of Death Metal
"Light of the Morning" - Band of Skulls
"Radio Orlando" - Harlem Shakes
"Blood on Our Hands" - Death From Above 1979
"Everlasting Arm" - Mercury Rev
646 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
You are not here to talk about the past.
But isn’t it interesting we start scoring runs when McGwire is away from the team, or is this just a coincidence?
we were scoring a ton before that
no correlation there
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, then it must be
Aaron Miles on the roster, right?
I bet everyone stepped up their game with the threat of losing PT to him.
it seems we've been scoring a lot lately
for the past week or so
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
well
our offense ignited during that last game of the Padres series. then over the Cubs weekend it scored a ton. and in the first 2 games of the reds series it’s been on fire. so not sure I think they are just out of their bad streak and are into a good hitting streak.
getting a little sick of our off and on offense, it’s been like this for a few years now. be a little more consistent!
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe Morgan
would be apalled at our offense.
The Carlos Silva game made me forget about the others where we didn’t suck.
it's amazing how people focus on the bad games I guess
I just saw that as the game we were going to lose out of the series
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
mainly because it was Ottavino's first mlb start and we had Carp and Waino in the other games
I really didn’t think we were going to sweep the cubs
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
and hitting light popups!
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
but he's a veteran, so
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Hay Now!
He’ll hit .300! Ok, so he’ll slug .300 as well, but GRIT is cowtagious!
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
he won't hit .300
he’s hitting mid .200s in AA
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
hope I'm wrong
(or that he hardly ever plays)
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I has a sad
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
TLR is pleaded.
From the Cardinal Beat:
A favorite of manager Tony La Russa’s since his role with the World Series-winner in 2006 and for his knack of starting the year on the bench and ending it as a starter, Aaron Miles was greeted warmly this afternoon by the skipper.
La Russa even wondered what number Miles would wear.
When told it would be No. 12, La Russa nodded. Same as it ever was.
When asked what role La Russa’s support and open lobbying had in his promotion and his return to the Cardinals, Miles didn’t hesistate: "Huge."
Why is Miles on the team? His versatility:
La Russa said Miles was an attractive addition to the roster because of "his versatility."
Yes, there it is. Miles cannot play any position well, but he can play multiple positions. He is TLR’s dull utility knife—the scissors don’t really cut, the blade doesn’t either, the file doesn’t file, and don’t even think about using the toothpick.
But, just to be clear. Miles must prove himself to be the below replacement player he once was.
La Russa has stressed this is not about nostalgia.
He has to show he’s "the same Aaron Miles."
"It’s been a tough road for me to get back this year," Miles said. "It’s something I’ve been used to doing in my career – proving myself. I knew that I had to go out there and prove to these guys that I’m still the same player that I was and that I can still do it. I have and that’s why I’m here."
So, Miles is going to prove himself to be the career .298 wOBA hitter that he has always been and that will justify his roster spot.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
Unbelievable
I was being sarcastic when I thought Miles might get the call last week.
Nothing left to do but sit back and enjoy the “Miles and Kilos” show.
Jobu needs a refill
oh so funny. A rec for you!
I was laughing out loud
Yes, there it is. Miles cannot play any position well, but he can play multiple positions. He is TLR’s dull utility knife—the scissors don’t really cut, the blade doesn’t either, the file doesn’t file, and don’t even think about using the toothpick.
"Have you ever thrown a ball 100 miles an hour? Everything hurts. Even your ass hurts. I see pictures of my face and say, 'Holy shit', but that's the strain you feel when you throw." ~ Bob Gibson
as if Lopez doesn't already fill the versatility role
wtf
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
and he's better at it
by FAR
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 2, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
ross wilson
wasnt he the quarterback on the mtv show “two a days?”
So I had to go to a class where I learned to help my wife
properly inhale and exhale during the forthcoming child birth process and missed the game last night. Without wading through over 1,000 of what I’m sure are emotionally charged comments, can someone please provide a decent summry of last night?
RB, thanks for covering the draft again. Great work and nice to reference these while the draft picks are being made, even if they’re not being made by the Cardinals. Much appreciated.
NorCal CARDS FAN
it was actually fairly tame
people were too busy making graphics of Aaron Miles. it’s a unite-r.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
DFA1979 and EODM
nice
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:13 PM EDT reply actions
agreed
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
I hope that if they pick someone you didn't cover...
it’s much the same as last year, in that you feel there is no way that player will still be there at 25.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed
and hoping that the Cards will take a signability risk and draft Austin Wilson
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
Shifflet
Sounds like a guy who needs to learn how to switch hit. He’d probably be a 3.7 or 3.8 down the line if he got back those two extra steps by batting from the left side of the plate.
Doesn’t sound like he’s got much of a frame to “fill out” though, so we’re probably talking about Michael Bourn 2.0 if he hits his upside.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
No, it's not any worse
than what you’ll run across just passing through Yahoo! at times. (Note I included the “!”…)
She is tasty, she looks fantastic in the first picture, distractingly so in the second. I would consider the 2nd to be borderline inappropriate for Corporate America, but if I was a bank manager, I’d put her at the desk where people sign up for loans (sure, babe, anything you say, sign here? ok, homina homina homina).
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
Wait, was there some of that
after the link inside the article? Hmm…
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
i thought that a bank would want to have a hot woman work at a bank
you know, so customers, may want to go to your bank… seems sort of like common sense to me
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
She's attractive
But not nearly enough to be talking about how hot she is.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 2, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
yeah, you know that third pictures of just her face...
i mean, she’s pretty, but nothing amazing. i was expecting something better.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
That's grade A top choice meat
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
A source tells Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse that Roy Oswalt would only approve a trade to the Phillies, Yankees or Cardinals.
What happened to wanting to go to Washington?
I don't think too many guys would want to go there
even if they have an outside shot of winning the division
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
that might depend on their age
it doesn’t seem like such a bad landing spot now. a few seasons and that division could flip over.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Possibly even next season.
Who knows how fast Harper runs it….if he wasn’t a Boras client we could see him in September.
by jackhammerslam on Jun 2, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I really, really doubt that
I don’t think he’s someone who’s going to jet through the minors. He’s got some adjustments to make I think, and he’ll most likely have to learn a new position. I don’t think he’s going to stay at C for very long.
My guess is that we won’t see him until at least 2012 and probably 2013.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Eh...
I agree he probably won’t stay at catcher, especially if Flores comes back and hits well for them, but I think he makes the team as the RFer out of S/T next year.
by jackhammerslam on Jun 2, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Wanna make a wager on it?
There’s no way this happens. There isn’t a scout on the planet that would agree with you.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Oh well, scouts have been wrong before....
Pujols in the 13th…
by jackhammerslam on Jun 2, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not getting into this
Put a wager on it if you’re so sure.
If they bring him up without any time in the minors it will be a huge mistake.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Yeah
He probably has more strikeouts than you’d like to see out of the #1 pick in JUCO (just living up to the sig), he’d probably get pwned in AA let alone the big leagues right now.
My god that power though. I wonder how many big leaguers could ISO .554 in JUCO.
Not afraid to nitpick
Probably not many...
but I’m sure there’s a few who could.
The strikeouts could be scary though. When he starts seeing REAL honest to god breaking pitches, I think he might struggle and have to adjust or see his contact rate plummet considerably.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
All three teams need him bad...
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
Waino, Carp, Oswalt, Jaime, Penny...
Devestating.
by jackhammerslam on Jun 2, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Lohse might be out for the season
in either case, he’s the worst out of those guys, easily.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
LOLoshe wont come back in that situation.
We either give him the Zambrano or Willis treatment. That or hope someone really, really falls in love with him this winter.
by jackhammerslam on Jun 2, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
sunk cost
you don’t make buisness decisions based on what you have already invested, you base it on what it will cost you from this point forward. Lohse is “free” compared to what Oswalt would cost so the question is just is Oswalt enough of an increase over Lohse to be worth the prospects+cash required.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Well
Since we’ve got so much money invested, we might as well wait and see if we can get some sort of return on the rest of the investment. It’s not certain what this injury is going to do to his career, and since we don’t know, we can’t assume he’ll be completely worthless if and when he comes back.
NTC
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
Those can be waved
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
i doubt he'll wave his way out of a highly competitive team
guys like Mulder got a ring
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
thats laughable
Oswalt is pitching like he’s never heard of aging right now
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
I kind of wish we could get him for this year
oh wait, Mark Derosa
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
....and even Ed Wade would laugh at that offer.
We’d be giving up Miller for sure, and probably another good prospect for Oswalt. And that’s if they’re NOT eating salary.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
its not even really worth considering
if it happened, it would have a bunch of crazy-assed implications for the organization. for one, payroll would HAVE to go up.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
That's just silly...
Steve Phillips works in the media business now. He’s not currently a GM with any ML team.
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
But Ed Wade is...
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
You're satisifed with just the division?
I hope Jaime isn’t just full of luck and this is his thang, but you still gotta try and get better at any chance you get.
by jackhammerslam on Jun 2, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Never said that
We won’t need more than 4 starters in october anyway, i really don’t think it would be worth it even if the Cards had the prospects to deal
We're looking at four months...
of Ottavino/Walters every fifth day. We will be acquiring someone and need to badly.
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
that someone shouldn't be Oswalt
plenty of expendable 5th starter types on plenty of teams, many of which aren’t looking at october
Yes, but Why...
..get someone who sucks? Why not get someone good and just moove everyone back a peg?
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I agree with that I do think the Cards will make a move to try and replace Lohse, but...
I doubt they make a move for Oswalt, as it will cost us to much. All we need right now is an innings eater to replace Lohse and we won’t have too give up much for it. Now if the Cards want to dip into the FA market for a replacement, they need to do it this week, so the guy can be ready within the next month or so.
four months?
kind of a gloomy outlook on Penny.
I am advocating for Millwood.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
yes Lohse...
Penny/Carp/Garcia fragility only increases the need. We probably should acquire two pitchers.
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
fire up the van!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Did you happen to look at Oswalts peripherals from last year?
Not good. He’s also got a creaky back.
We’re rolling with WW, Carp, Penny if the playoffs started in July (assuming Brad is back), we don’t need Oswalt even in the playoffs, and especially not for what we’d be paying him.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Other than the back, Oswalt has been incredibly durable.
And the back has shown no signs of slowing him down or keeping him on the DL yet, so I don’t see the concern for the back at the moment.
But this is all moot for me, as I don’t see us getting a chance to acquire him.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
wah?
Not to prognosticate – because who knows what some crazy GM will do – but Oswalt can be counted on to post something like a 3.75 FIP and be worth 3-3.5 wins per year. $25 million is a lot for 1.5 years of this. It’s an extreme overpay. I’d say he’s worth his contract and no prospect at all. If Drayton wants a prospect he should be made to buy one for $6-$10 million.
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
I agree
25 mil for about 5 WAR isn’t a huge overpay, but it’s definitely not a bargin. Wade isn’t going to get a haul back, not even close.
You obviously are underestimating the market.
There are other teams that need pitching, including the one’s listed in his requested destinations. They will get prospects for him and probably pretty good ones too.
He’s not going to get a haul back, but he ain’t gonna take two middling prospects who haven’t hit ever (Kozma) or at all in the last season and a half (Jones). He’d be better off taking ANY other offer than that one.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Oswalt is resurgent right now
on pace for far more than 3.5 wins
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
This isn't how one...
should project his performance over the next 1.5 years. Yes the past two months are important, but you don’t disregard everything else.
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
Are you crazy?
This is coming from the same guy who thought we could get Holliday without giving up our best prospect, Brett Wallace.
I’m not saying what SHOULD happen. I’m saying what WILL HAPPEN. There’s quite a difference.
I don’t want Oswalt anyway. Too much money for to little gain.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm with fourstick on this one
even if Oswalt is a 3-3.5 win player at this point, from the perspective of the league (or at least Ed Wade), he’s a top veteran pitcher and deserves more than middling prospects. I don’t think he gets traded at all. Too many mitigating factors.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
Look at the Cliff Lee deal...
Marson, Carrasco, Donald, and Knapp… For a better, younger pitcher with HALF Oswalt’s salary AND a usefull 4th outfielder.
Once you adjust for the salary differential, the performance differential, the age/risk differential, and subtract Francisco… I think you’ll see that the package Cleveland got will be ratcheted down to not much more than Kozma/DJ.
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
I think you're REALLY inflating how good a Kozma/DJ deal is
Seriously — every organization has at least 3 players just like those guys. They are nothing special. They barely crack the top 10 in THE CARDINAL organization, which is one of the worst in the big leagues right now.
Kozma only would have value because he was a #1 pick. A shitty #1 pick, and he’s proved that with his play. You’re trading for only upside, and he’s shown nothing to make you believe he’s going to even be as good as Aaron Miles.
With DJ, even most scouts have soured on him developing 20-25 homer power, he’s struggled with injuries, struggled with the bat, and has exactly one good season in the minors so far. He’s been passed by Henley in the organization. He’s another guy that’s all upside, even though he’s shown more than Kozma, he’s older, and hasn’t done shit in the last 18 months to make you think he’s going to make it to the show.
The Astros are a team that doesn’t trade their marquee players. Ever. So you think they’re dealing a #1 starter for two guys that borderline stink in the minor leagues? You’re fucking CRAZY if you think that’s happening. Ed Wade is dumb, but he’s at least got a pulse. Nobody in their right fucking mind would trade Oswalt for those two guys AND eat $10M of his salary. What would be the point?
If anything, they’ll get at least one bona fide player that projects as a regular, and you’re underestimating how they’ve done in trades. They got Michael Bourn in the Lidge deal, when Lidge had very little value, and Bourn was one of the top 3 prospects in the Phillies organization. They overpaid for Tejada, but only Scott has panned out for the Orioles (as a DH), Tejada played well for the Astros.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Yeah But....
Ed Wade is kind of an idiot. Dosn’t hurt to make a low-ball offer and see if the fishie bites…
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I'd Prefer Lee....
..just dont see it happening. Don;t see Oswalt happening either, but I think it has a better chance.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
He's dumb, but he's not that dumb.
I guarantee you the Astros value Oswalt enough that they aren’t just going to give him away for nothing. If it comes to that, they will keep him.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
If you read my earlier posts...
I’m not prognosticating because I really don’t know what someone like Ruben Amaro would do or who will win the battle between Drayton and Wade.
What I’m saying is that Oswalt is worth his salary and little more. If I were Mo I’d offer Kozma, DJ, and maybe some other minor piece in return for Oswalt and cash. If they said no, fine.
FWIW, while this may be something of a lowball offer, I don’t think I’m “fucking crazy.” A number of other informed people have guessed on a Nationals package, such as this:
http://masnsports.com/the_goessling_game/2010/06/some-roy-oswalt-trade-spitballing.html.
The author guesses that maybe something like Shairon Martis, Brad Meyers, and Chris Marrero, possiby with Stammen thrown in could be enough – and that’s with the Astros picking up salary.
Marrero is a former first rounder who has hit in the lower rounds but has struggled in 300 AA at bats. He’s currently OPSing LESS than Kozma and he plays first. Martis is no kind of a prospect at all – he’s currently struggling in AAA after struggling at the major league level. Meyers is performing very well at AA, but he’s 24 and Sickels pegs him as a C+ prospect “with limited upside.” Stammen sucks and isn’t a prospect.
You could argue this group is better than one led by DJ and Kozma, but it’s very much comparable. Maybe substitute Jay, Craig, Descalso, Greene, Henley et al… The point is this is the group we’re talking about – not Shelby Miller, not Drew Storen.
The guy at mlbtraderumors takes a crack as well: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/05/how-do-astros-nationals-match-up-for-oswalt.html. He swaps out Martis and Stammen and adds Tyler Clippard. Yawn.
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
You forgot a piece of the puzzle here:
What I’m saying is that Oswalt is worth his salary and little more.
….to the teams trading FOR him.
To the Astros, he’s worth a lot more than that, so they’re not going to let him go for a bunch of piddling prospects who might not amount to much.
So everybody and their brother can speculate on what might be offered for him, but the bottom line is that it will take more than that because the Astros value him more than anyone else involved in the discussions, so teams will have to overpay for him.
You can apply this same argument to anyone that wants to trade for Lance Berkman as well. They overvalue their veteran players, that’s why they’ve never been able to trade and rebuild effectively. The only time they did that, they got pretty damn good value (Bourn) for a closer who looked like he might be finished altogether.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
What is he worth to the Astros?
They have NO (nada, zelch, nein) chance of making the playoffs any year in his remaining contract. I guess you could argue that he’s the franchise player, but the fact that asked to be traded kinda negates that fact doesn’t it?
Dude. IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!
You’re talking about a team that irrationally thinks they are going to have a 55 win second half every season. How do you explain them signing Feliz, trading for Lindstrom, and signing Lyon in the offseason? Nobody projected them to have a chance at winning the division, yet they went out and overpaid free agents anyway. They went out and got Miguel Tejada when nobody was giving them a chance at winning the division that year either. They overpaid for Carlos Lee and put him on a team of aging vets to try and win the division again. They don’t believe in rebuild.
They don’t trade their superstars. Ever since Drayton took ownership they’ve held on to everyone until they were replacement level or they left on their own. They held on to Bagwell, they held on to Biggio — they even moved him to the outfield to avoid trading him.
Stop acting like Ed Wade and Drayton McClain are RATIONAL ACTORS. They aren’t, they never have been. Why would they start now?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jun 2, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Key point in this statement:
Stop acting like Ed Wade and Drayton McClain are RATIONAL ACTORS. They aren’t, they never have been.
The only way that changes is if McLane decides to sell. Then he might move salaries to make the team more attractive to buyers.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
the previous padres owner
moved to houston after the divorce that led to the sale, and has been rumored to be interested, as have there been rumors of mclane selling.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
McLane's been rumored to be selling since the ASG at MMP
Tillman Frittata (owner of Landry’s/Joe’s Crab Shack/RainForest Cafe) usually tops the list.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Wade and McLane may not be a monolithic block of irrationality...
I think Wade understands the need to rebuild.
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
McLane has final authority
Especially when it comes to Oswalt.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
They aren't completely irrational
They are now 12.5 games back in the division and have one of the worst offensive season in the history of baseball. Even Wade has to know they have no chance and they have to rebuild, especially if their ace pitcher has requested to be traded.
I remember a season, not to long ago
where they were something like 16 games back in the division and 14 back of the wild card at the end of June, and ended up making the playoffs as the wild card.
You could rationally talk yourself into them being a much better club if this happens, and this happens, and that leads to this happening, etc. This is what they’ve done for 10 years, why would they change now?
Also, if your plan is to rebuild, why would you deal your second best trade chip (behind Berkman) for two prospects who probably have less than a 10% chance of ever helping you at the big league level. So if you can’t do better than a bunch of C grade prospects, it makes sense to hold onto him.
I think they’d ask for Miller because he’s from Texas and has high upside. If it’s Miller straight up for Oswalt, and they’re kicking in $7M, and he restructures his contract for an extra year, and payroll goes up to $115M through 2013, then I’d do the deal, because he would give us the best rotation in baseball and we’d have a legit shot at a title in each of the next 3 years.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Why do they need salary relief?
Hell, they already are paying him, and he puts asses in seats when he pitches and sells merchandise.
They’ve been ok with paying him when they sucked last year.
How does dumping the final two years of his deal help them rebuild when they’re still paying Feliz, Lyon, and Lee?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'd be willing to bet
ticket sales do not increase on his start days. I tried looking at stuff like that a few years back…biggest factor I found was weekend vs weekday games. I know I personally buy tickets w/o knowing/caring who’s on the mound.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Yes
But trading him for piss poor minor leaguers signals that the team is rebuilding, and that will hurt ticket sales, because fair weather fans like theirs, who’ve had it good for so long, are not going to turn out to watch a shitty, rebuilding baseball team.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
the overall biggest correlation
to attendance is team quality.
There’s not going to be any attendance dives between a shitty last place team with an ace starter and a shitty last place team without one.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
They can do that anyway.
His contract only runs through 2011 and they can buy out the last year for $2M.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
LOL
the Astros value him more than anyone else involved in the discussions, so teams will have to overpay for him.
I’m sending this one to my realtor. I value my house more than anyone else!
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
and he'll probably tell you the same thing teams might tell the Astros
That’s great; you can keep it.
Thing is...
I think the Astros might be just find with this.
Why doesn’t anyone else see this as a remote possibility?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Oswalt is worth his salary and little more?
I guess in the expected WAR sense, maybe that’s true, but guys that are worth their salary and little more in an expected WAR sense aren’t free.
Take off your sabremetric goggles and ask what a reasonably priced (for the value) ace/strong#2 starting pitcher is worth? Those guys don’t grow on trees.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 2, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
okay.
Starting pitchers
The highest-paid active starting pitchers, by average annual value:
C.C. Sabathia, $23,000,000 (2009-15)
Johan Santana, $22,916,667 (2008-13)
Roy Halladay, $20,000,000 (2011-13)
Carlos Zambrano, $18,300,000 (2008-12)
Barry Zito, $18,000,000 (2007-13)
Jake Peavy, $17,333,333 (2010-12)
A.J. Burnett, $16,500,000 (2009-13)
John Lackey, $16,500,000 (2010-14)
Justin Verlander, $16,000,000 (2010-14)
Jason Schmidt, $15,666,667 (2007-09)
Felix Hernandez, $15,600,000 (2010-14)
Derek Lowe, $15,000,000 (2009-12)
Roy Oswalt, $14,600,000 (2007-11)
Mark Buehrle, $14,000,000 (2008-11)
Roy Halladay, $13,333,333 (2008-10)
Ryan Dempster, $13,000,000 (2009-12)
Chris Carpenter, $12,700,000 (2008-11)
Bronson Arroyo, $12,500,000 (2009-10)
Kevin Millwood, $12,000,000 (2006-10)
roy oswalt is the twelfth best-paid pitcher out there. he’s sure a good pitcher, but not an ace pitcher anymore. looking at the salaries, (leaving my SABR goggles off) it seems like the original claim was about right. just worth his salary and not much more. am i missing something?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
How is jason schmidt on that list?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 3, 2010 7:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I freaking loved that contract at the time.
If only I was a doctor privy to his medical records.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
One thing to remember with all this discussion about trade situations for Oswalt...
Oswalt has expressed interest in restructuring his contract with a new team. That would mean more year(s), but less average annual salary per year. Just something to add to the discussion of projected trade proposals. Considering we are 1 of 3 teams he would accept a trade to right now, I’m sure he would be willing to restructure and, fingers crossed but not likely, take a pay cut. If the Cards could obtain the right to speak with Oswalt and his agent prior to offering a trade proposal, it could greatly change the Cards’ interest in Oswalt.
We don't have the players to get him. Period.
If we restructure his deal to 3Y$30M, does that make this a better deal? If so, it’s going to cost us more in prospects.
People are over-inflating how much our prospects are worth — AGAIN. They also aren’t factoring in that the Astros never, EVER trade away their All-Star players. They never do this, so why would they take next to nothing for Oswalt, who might have 6 or 7 good years left.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I never said anything about the prospect side of the trade, I was just discussing a situation that would possibly spark the Cards interest and pursuit of Oswalt.
I just said it was something that would have to be considered. I don’t think the Cards would truly be interested unless they could talk with Oswalt about a restructured contract. If they could get Oswalt to agree to restructure according to their needs, then they would maybe go forward and discuss trade proposals with Houston. The whole trade situation and what Houston would want in return would then depend on how desperate Houston is to shed payroll. If they are truly desperate, then the Cards could possibly have a chance if they agree to take on his whole contract.
Personally though, I don’t see all of this happening. I’m just saying that for them to be even interested, Houston would have to allow the Cards the right to talk with Oswalt.
Even if you restructure
Payroll would have to go north of $110M to make it work (when you factor in a Pujols contract and the arb and contract escalations coming in the next few years, not to mention locking up Rasmus long term), and I just don’t see that happening
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Plus,
this isn’t even factoring in that the Astros won’t want (Or may even refuse altogether) to deal in the division. This will increase the price for him, and quite frankly, we literally can’t afford it.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
are we high and crazy?
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
by purple_haze on Jun 2, 2010 4:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Now I know why Miles is on this team
Quote from the PD: ""Injuries happen. Guys can get sore and need a blow."
youneverknow
we covered that yesters
there was linguistics involved.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Why would you be mad about his ovation?
That’s a tad fanatical. I don’t think people were applauding thinking it was the second coming of Stan Musial, they were welcoming back a guy who was part of a World Series Championship team. I can’t imagine anyone thinking he’s going to make a difference on this team. I won’t get worked up unless Tony starts putting him in the lineup everyday even if he’s not hitting.
Marissa Miller for SS
speaking of stan
i bet he could be more productive than miles. why not give him a go?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I noticed
how LaRussa put him in during a huge rally, fans were excited….there was no way he wouldn’t receive cheers.
If it had been 2 down, nobody on, might have been a different reception — certainly not as excited as a standing ovation.
Which reminds me...
How improbably was Brendan’s at bat right after the Miles pop up? Ryan gets behind in the count and still manages to make solid contact down the line and Rolen misplays the backhand for the final out. Those two things happened on one play and the universe did not implode.
Marissa Miller for SS
I was more pleased that he looked settled into his at-bats
a little nervous but the routine seemed more natural and less forced. it looked more like old Boog.
AND he was safe at second. when does that happen
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
pic
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
this
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
LaRue's play was really cool, too.
the man can dance
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I didn't really care about it
people like him, let them applaud.
but I am pissed that he got called up when he had no merit for it, over several others who should be here over him
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Same to you.
You don’t have to want Miles on the team now, but he is a good guy, and was a good Cardinal for a few years. I applaud players like that. STL applauds players like that.
He wasn't a good Cardinal for a few years
He was a mediocre-at-best Cardinal for a few years. He has no business on this team.
by jd is legend on Jun 2, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well, you're wrong.
A .740 OPS and shitty defense at both middle infield positions is the definition of mediocre, but especially defining when that’s your best season by about .080 points of OPS for your career.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
nitpicking but
babip alone doesn’t mean he’s bad. just means he’s lucky.
but i see what you’re saying. the .740OPS should have been even lower.
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
I'll cheer him at the ballpark
because he’s a Cardinal, and it’s not his fault he sucks. But it’s undoubtedly frustrating to see so many people around you overestimate his value on a team that would be better off without him—to give him a standing ovation for taking up a roster spot he shouldn’t really have.
Why don't you wait until he actually fails.....
before saying he doesn’t belong. Luck or not, if he puts together a good season, all this crap is pointless. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t.
lets pick a random fan to play each game.
maybe he’ll do good, maybe he won’t.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Why not call up Tommy Herr?
If he puts together a good season, all this crap is pointless.
Not afraid to nitpick
YES!
Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 2, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
sorry, I had too.
Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 2, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not talking about whether or not he fails
I’m saying the front office has already failed, by looking at his production over the last several years as compared to their other options and thinking he was the best choice.
I wish the best for Aaron Miles—I hope he succeeds, obviously, because he’s a human being, not to mention a human being who’s on the Cardinals. That’s not related to the question of whether or not I think he should be a Major League player.
What options are absolutely.....
going to put up better numbers on the field? Not which guys might…..which guys would just about be guaranteed to, in the same role?
it's not about "might" or "guaranteed"
This is just lawyering up the argument. It’s about “probably”.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
ruben gotay, for one
Tyler Greene’s defense would almost certainly make it difficult for Miles to close the gap, as well. And one major question is whether the Cardinals need another guy with Miles’s profile at all, with Felipe Lopez on the team.
There’s no baseball rationale for choosing Aaron Miles over either of those guys. There just isn’t. He’s projected to be a worse hitter than either of those guys, who the Cardinals already had, and he’s a below-average second baseman and a nightmarish shortstop. And that’s what’s frustrating.
Nothing is guaranteed
Yet I don’t see you advocating calling up Shelby Miller and starting him at catcher, despite the fact that, yes, there’s a chance that would work out tremendously.
It’s not about guarantees. What we know is that Miles is coming off a year or two of atrocious baseball and, at his peak, he was a mediocre baseball player. There’s essentially no chance he’ll be very useful to this team.
Ruben Gotay should have been called up before miles. Or Greene. Or leave Craig on the roster.
Gotay, Descalso, Greene
You really aren’t wrapping your head around how bad a .466 OPS is. And then he didn’t hit in AAA, and then he didn’t hit in AA this year.
Not afraid to nitpick
I will bet you 30 dollars at least 5 guys here at VEB are better at baseball then Miles
by vivaelpujols on Jun 2, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
at first I giggled
then I realized it’s probably true.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
That is the problem.....
There are more than 5 guys on this board that a) think they are better players than guys playing ML ball, and 2) think they are better managers than a HOF guy like TLR.
A lot of egos on this board.
Nobody thinks anyone here is better than Tony La Russa
Because he is one of the best managers of all time, and everything about him shows that. He has a great career winning percentage, has won 4 manager of the year awards, has made it to the playoffs a ton, has a won two world series (right, two?). Players respect him and he’s been around for 30 years. It’s hard to argue that Tony is not an amazing manager.
Miles, on the other hand, is a piece of shit player. Over his career, he has been below a replacement player, and last year he had one of the worst seasons OF ALL TIME. There is NOTHING supporting the fact that he is a good player, or even a bad player. He is terrible, and there is no other word to describe him.
I'm really happy for you Yuniesky, and I'm going to let you finish
But Aaron Miles had one of the worst season of all time! OF ALL TIME!
by jd is legend on Jun 2, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
/insert joker24's sig
;)
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
less flaming
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
I find is frickin' hilarious.....
That everybody is getting so bent out of shape over a guy making the league minimum, most likely for one year, that is probably taking up the last roster spot and will see limited playing time, save injuries.
Being a ML pinch hitter is probably one of the toughest jobs there is. Just like any sport, the more you get to play, the easier it is to stay sharp. Guys that can ride the pine for 8 innings, and take quality AB’s against some of the best pitchers in the majors (closers, good set up guys, etc), are hard to come buy. I’ve said it before…..those spots on the bench are best filled by guys vets, or young guys with limited ceilings (Stav). Everybody else (Craig, Mather, etc) are better off getting consistent playing time at the minor league level.
Would STL be better off with Craig on the roster rather than Miles? Minimally better, I’d agree with. But it’s in the best interest of the Cardinals, and of the players, in some cases, to keep them down. Some of you treat roster management and major league games as two completely seperate issues. They aren’t. They have to be dealt with together.
How many last roster spots do we have?
Nick Stavinoha, Aaron Miles, Blake Hawksworth. . .
Think; It's not illegal yet.
by azruavatar on Jun 2, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And WE find it hilarious
that TLR could put Ted Williams’ frozen fucking head on the 25 man roster and you would somehow find a way to irrationally defend that decision.
At some point, raking in AAA as a 27 year old player doesn’t really do you a damn bit of good. Especially if you’ve never had to miss a season due to injury.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
hitting coach?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i didn't propose putting his head on the roster - you did
i suggested his head as hitting coach. but now that you mention it, i’d just as soon oquendo on the roster instead of miles, and he could still coach, so he’d be providing more than miles will.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Has TLR said anything about Miles?
You guys act like TLR owns the team. If he and Mo didn’t have a reason, it wouldn’t have happened. There have been plenty of things Tony supposedly wanted, that he didn’t get.
And it’s possible for me to like a move, or be okay with it, and that to have NOTHING to do with TLR. AT ALL.
Just sayin’.
blockquotes
When asked what role La Russa’s support and open lobbying had in his promotion and his return to the Cardinals, Miles didn’t hesitate: "Huge."
"I think it’s huge," he said. "I think it’s definitely big. He knows what he’s got in me, and I’m going to prove to him that I’m still that guy."
La Russa said he first approached McGwire a week ago about the job. They spoke last Monday for awhile and then for several days after. La Russa said he could tell McGwire was taking it more serious than invitations in the past because of the questions he asked. McGwire has been invited annually to attend spring training
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Clever distracting question to ignore the fact
that there’s a direct quote about TLR lobbying for Miles!
Think; It's not illegal yet.
to be fair, though, miles can't really answer that question
he “thinks” it was huge, but really only mo can answer that. i think it would be the same answer, personally, but i’d like to hear mo say it – has he addressed it?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He probably wouldn't say
b/c if he were to admit caving to TLR, that’s a bit of a vote of no confidence in Miles.
I never said there wasn't.....
Just said that if there was, I hadn’t heard it.
Pretty lame to argue that I simply blindly follow TLR. I don’t. I didn’t know his role in getting Miles. I’ve also never pretended to be super-duper excited about Miles. I just don’t think it’ll cost us any wins. Nothing more, nothing less. If you can win the same number of games, and not have to pay a guy like Decaslo or Gotay, why not? If you can stick Miles on the bench, and win the same number of games, why not let Craig get the AB’s he so depserately needs in AAA? Same with Mather to some extent.
There you go again:
Similarly:
- Why waste a roster spot on a player who sucks at pretty much everything?
- Why keep guys in AAA when they hit the shit out of AAA pitching and not give them as many AB’s in the majors as possible? Tony plays 120 different lineups every year, there’s potential for those guys to get 100-150 AB’s in the big leagues, get accustomed to the travel and all that stuff. These are our future players, they deserve a chance to get some AB’s. Mather and Craig have shown what they can do in AAA. So has Gotay.
- I find it hilarious that “these guys need to get more AB’s to stay fresh”, then they go down to AAA after not getting an AB in three weeks (Mather) and immediately start crushing AAA pitching. Didn’t need to warm up the bat any, just went down and started hitting. Sounds like a guy that needs to be at the MLB level to me.
- He won’t cost us any wins? That’s a bit of a defeatist attitude. So he won’t WIN us any games either? You’re right, probably not. Craig could win us some games, Greene could win us some games, Gotay could win us some games. They might cost us a win or two, but they might actually win us some games too. Miles won’t win us any games, and it’s possible he costs us games too. Not to mention that all those other guys can play multiple positions on the field and contribute. Miles can play multiple positions on the field and contribute nothing. His magic hex is that he’s back on an MLB roster at all — that’s his best talent: Keeping people interested in him enough to put him on the roster when he clearly sucks at baseball at nearly every conceivable level.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jun 2, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
do not question tlr
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve also never pretended to be super-duper excited about Miles. I just don’t think it’ll cost us any wins.
I can’t help but feel that having a patently awful player on your roster, when you have numerous superior players in AAA, and giving that player at-bats, can only potentially cost you wins. ESPECIALLY when the likely role of that player is as a pinch hitter, despite his main attribute being that he plays a premium defensive position (2B), albeit pretty badly.
Suggesting otherwise is just intellectually dishonest.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 3, 2010 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Miles and "good" PAs.
Miles hasn’t ever really takent good PAs, tough PAs. They may look tough because a 5’6" man who should not be on a big-league baseball field is taking them, but they aren’t good. Last night, for example, he took a pitch and weakly popped out, with runners on, no less. It was a horrendous PA. Thank goodness Ryan was there to come through in the clutch.
Aaron Miles as a PHer for his career:
147 PA/.222/.246/.274/.521
So, Aaron Miles is actually worse as a PHer than he is hitting normally, and he is below replacement as a hitter normally. What’s more, he is duplicative as a player of Lopez (who is Aaron Miles, but good) and Skip. If you want or need a veteran guy on the bench, that’s fine, but why not get one who can hit? Aaron Miles does not do anything well on a baseball field. He is a bad baseball player. I watched him play for AAA Iowa last season and I was embarrassed—as a spectator—to witness it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
how is this so?
It totally goes against what my gut and eyes say?
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
...and it's not very sensational...
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
why would your eyes say Miles was good?
Wouldn’t just looking at him tell you he’s not very good? He’s short, not attractive, isn’t fast, and doesn’t hit for power. I don’t get it.
Now, maybe your eyes tell you Joe Mather is good. He looks he should be better than he is. Shit, I bet if Joe Mather didn’t look so much like a really good baseball player, he’d never have gotten past AAA.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 2, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you looked at Joey Bomb's AAA numbers?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I would think most guys would be worse
at PH then they would be playing full time.
Only difference MIGHT be a lefty that can’t hit lefties. That can be hidden in the PH role.
So was Craig earlier this year.....
So was Greene in all of his major league time to date. The Cards aren’t the only ones leary of Gotay, or he wouldn’t have been a minor league after such a good season last year.
Craig was smoking line drives right at people and just foul.
Nothing lousy about that and I’m sure it didn’t go unnoticed that he had some bad luck.
You can read it in any tone you like.
They noticed enough to send him down.....
I watched the same AB’s as everybody else. I wasn’t impressed. I never felt like he was hitting into bad luck. He looked overmatched to me. His swing looked long and slow. He looked slow to recognize pitches.
I see the talent, I suppose. I just think it needs regular AB’s. Craig isn’t going to do well at all in a PH role at the ML level right now. He just isn’t.
You clearly have no idea who you're arguing with here.
That line of reasoning is going to get you absolutely nowhere.
Death needs time for what it kills to grow in.
by the red baron on Jun 2, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
i have read this entire thread
i think sooonerfan is messing with all of us. no one would legitimately defend aaron miles. well played, sir. you had us all going.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
by IHeartBoog on Jun 2, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Those arguments are a bit tired...
I still contend that a guy (Greene) who OPSed over 1.000 in AAA in May is more valuable than a guy who OPSed around .700 in AA. Also, Craig’s LD% was ludicrous – he just had awful luck.
I don't care what they do in AAA.....
I care what they do in the majors. And Greene has been pretty bad.
We have a very good defensive SS that can’t hit already on the roster in Ryan.
So you REALLY must not care what they do in AA
Because Miles wasn’t even good there. Or last year in the bigs (.466 OPS), or last year in AAA.
Not afraid to nitpick
Small sample size?
Thos numbers probably look a lot better if you look at them one or two games earlier, or if he’d have gotten two hits the next day.
Stats for that short a time aren’t very indicative of anything. And yes, I agree with the same thing for Craig at the ML level this year, before you ask.
Really? You didn't call SSS on Greene.
Also, no, they don’t look very good. That’s a pretty long time. These stats do mean something, you can’t just disregard them. He sucked throughout ‘09 and he’s sucked so far this year – in AA. That’s probably pretty indicative that he’ll keep sucking in the majors.
We're talking 230 PAs where Miles has been worse than a pitcher
Think how bad Brendan Ryan has hit, and he’s been significantly better than Miles has been.
Not afraid to nitpick
And that's after 2000+ PAs of being a replacement player
Again, he’s a replacement level player who then fell off a cliff.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 2, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not literally, unfortunately
/joking
by jd is legend on Jun 2, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dude
Small sample sizes can’t be used to PREDICT anything. But they can be used to decipher if a guy sucked for that amount of time. HE SUCKED DURING HIS TIME IN AA. Period. End of story.
HE SUCKED FOR THE CUBS LAST YEAR. In a larger but still small sample.
When you suck for a significant amount of time, like, idk, 18 months or so, that’s pretty predictive that you aren’t getting back to that replacement level where you were when SoonerfanTU fell in love with your little bearded self.
He’s been cut by more teams than Ruben Gotay, who you seem to think has no value because he’s been cut by multiple teams.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
And technically
The Cardinals looked like they were going to use Gotay until Felipe fell into their lap.
Not afraid to nitpick
the reds cut him
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The Cardinals are the only organization not leery of Miles.
He was a minor league FA who was DFA’d by the Reds. The Cardinals signed him and he hit .278 in a notorious hitters park in Springfield with an OPS of .706 (his MLE OPS is .541, which Bat Gagnozzi-esque).
Miles has a career OPS+ of 77. Tyler Greene posted an OPS+ of 78 this season. So, while Greene was lousy this season, he was as lousy as Aaron Miles has been for his entire career. Of course, Greene plays a superb defensive second base and a good defensive shortstop. Miles plays horrid defense everywhere. The astounding part of this is that TLR said this:
La Russa has stressed this is not about nostalgia.
He has to show he’s “the same Aaron Miles.”
So, TLR’s hope is to have a “lousy” player producing about as Greene was, but playing far worse defense. How can you defend this?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
How can you defend this?
Easy.
What is important to you stat-heads, isn’t what is important to building a good team, or to TLR.
Offensive production and good defense isn't important to TLR or to building a good team?
You can read it in any tone you like.
Miles's career OPS+ is actually 73,
so I gave him too much credit. If we go by wOBA, Greene posted a .308 in his extremely limited time with the Cards this year. This is ten points higher than Miles’s career .298 wOBA. In 2009, Miles posted a .212 wOBA with the Chicago Cubs and a .245 wOBA with AAA Iowa. In 2009, Greene posted a .272 wOBA with St. Louis and a .390 wOBA with Memphis. So, at every level for the past two seasons, Greene has been the superior offensive and defensive player to Miles.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
So you're telling me
that TLR would rather have a team full of people like Aaron MIles, instead of a team full of guys who can play baseball at an above-replacement-level rate?
That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jun 2, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And doesn't match with what Tony has said about managing Albert.
You can read it in any tone you like.
What is important to me in a bench player:
1) The ability to hit for power;
2) Average-to-excellent defense; and
3) The ability to work a walk.
What is important to building a good team to TLR or to building a good team?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
What is important to building a good team to TLR or to building a good team?
TLR has proven he can build a good team his way. To question that is stupid, silly, and ridiculous.
You can question individual decisions all you want.....
But just understand they are all part of a plan that works. And part of that plan is to make individual decisions that are better for the team in the long run, not necessarily that day.
I’ve already said that maybe Craig puts up a slightly better season then Miles if he is up here. But if it’s only slightly better, does it not help us in the long run to get Craig a lot of AB’s in AAA? I think it does.
So you contend that Miles is better in the long run
than an established prospect who’s gotten all the minor league experience he needs & will provide significantly (not slightly) better performance in the majors?
So what about Tyler Greene?
I trust you accept that A) he has hit as well or better than Miles has and B) has is a much better fielder.
He’s a better player and doesn’t need any at bats in AAA, how is Miles a better option than him?
Then go with Gotay, Greene or Descalso
All of them are low upside future bench bats who have hit better than Miles at AAA than Miles did at AA, or at AAA last year—-and you don’t want to talk about what Miles did in the majors last year.
Not afraid to nitpick
With the way TLR uses his bench,
Miles will harm the Cards more than if he were a bench player on most every other team. What’s more, we are going to be traveling to AL parks this month, which means our DH options are: Miles, Jay, LaRue, Ryan/Skip/Felipe, or Stavinoha. Maybe they will call Craig up for that, but I doubt it.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I think I've rec'd 90% of your comments lately.
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Jun 2, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would throw "Makes good contact"
in there as well as “Ability to play multiple positions at an average skill level”
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
As would I,
but you replied to DanUp that he should wait until Miles actually fails before lamenting his taking up a roster spot. But, Miles’s career is basically a big failure, if one believes that sub-replacement productions is a failure. I do. Then you replied:
I find is frickin’ hilarious….. That everybody is getting so bent out of shape over a guy making the league minimum, most likely for one year, that is probably taking up the last roster spot and will see limited playing time, save injuries.
Being a ML pinch hitter is probably one of the toughest jobs there is. Just like any sport, the more you get to play, the easier it is to stay sharp. Guys that can ride the pine for 8 innings, and take quality AB’s against some of the best pitchers in the majors (closers, good set up guys, etc), are hard to come buy. I’ve said it before…..those spots on the bench are best filled by guys vets, or young guys with limited ceilings (Stav). Everybody else (Craig, Mather, etc) are better off getting consistent playing time at the minor league level.
Which is fine, but Aaron Miles does not take quality PA’s. He never has. His career OPS+ is 73 and his career PHing numbers are about half of that. These are not good.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
If it's so easy to find replacement level bench guys.....
How come Greene couldn’t do it? How come Mather couldn’t do it? How come Craig couldn’t do it?
Miles has performed exactly as well as Greene has with the bat over his career, with worse defense
So if Greene “couldn’t do it” than Miles can’t do it either.
And then Miles fell off a cliff last year
Four Six Six OPS. He was replacement before he fell off a cliff. Let that sink in

Not afraid to nitpick
Greene *did* do it.
I’ll repost my comment from above for you:
If we go by wOBA, Greene posted a .308 in his extremely limited time with the Cards this year. This is ten points higher than Miles’s career .298 wOBA. In 2009, Miles posted a .212 wOBA with the Chicago Cubs and a .245 wOBA with AAA Iowa. In 2009, Greene posted a .272 wOBA with St. Louis and a .390 wOBA with Memphis. So, at every level for the past two seasons, Greene has been the superior offensive and defensive player to Miles.
I would bet that Mather’s line and Miles’s line will be pretty similar for 2010.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
{spoilers}
he won’t.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yay
character attacks
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Special kind of person?
Do you mean special like Corky from Life Goes On or special like a Very Special episode of Blossom? Or special like the cereal? Or maybe you mean special in some other way I don’t understand.
Eh, regardless. I’ve been called much worse by much better than you. Now go ahead and disappear again for a couple weeks until you feel the need to pop out of hiding and irritate everyone.
Death needs time for what it kills to grow in.
by the red baron on Jun 2, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
what I don't get is the quotes around it
what is he quoting
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
And you can keep attacking players and coaches.....
From the relative anonymous blog that you post on.
He didn't attack any players or coaches.
He shared his emotional response. Where do you get this shit?
Regression, bitches.
I thought we agreed a few years ago.....
To basically ignore each others’ posts? I don’t like you. You don’t like me.
Move on…..
I didn't get "upset"
It was definitely annoying though on general principle given how terrible he actually is at this point. It’d be like giving a standing O to signing Gary Bennett and calling him right back up—-a guy who has been out of baseball for a year, which is a better track record than the season Miles put up last year.
Not afraid to nitpick
Who didn't expect that standing ovation?
It was what I knew would happen so I couldn’t have cared less.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I was at the stadium
and I was very angry. Also, this ovation came immediately after ‘the wave’ in a tight game.
very very angry
Think; It's not illegal yet.
I didn't catch any of that fight.
That whole card looked like a snooze except for Duffee — who then got KTFO sadly.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Not really
Evans wobbled Jackson hard in the 1st and fought technically (read: not just standing there and swinging) and then got rocked in the 3rd, managed to survive and then secure a beastly takedown to guarantee the win yet somehow the fight was devoid of action according to these people.
Not afraid to nitpick
okay, this is it
i’m finally gonna go ahead an check out DFA1979
i need some new tunes anyway
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
if you end up liking DFA
you should check out mstrkrft, it’s DFA’s side/main project. a little more house-electronica but it’s good stuff.
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
uh
DFA79 was before mstrkrft, definitely not a side project. I like the bass player a lot better than the singer drummer guy
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
get it
just one album, but it ROCKS
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
they were good live too
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
OT
first though, thanks RB for this and all previous draft reviews and all the work needed to bring them to fruition. I can’t wait for draft day to see what the Cards can do to beef up the farm.
with that, after the wear and tear on the pen last night and a relatively poor showing from Peej, do the Cards make another roster move today to get a fresh arm to the pen?
Also, I think we’ve seen all we need to from Peej at this point, as he just doesn’t have the stuff to eat innings at the major league level (at least not yet). What move should be made to replace Peej, or do we just wait and hope Ottavino can fill the Lohse-gap and that Penny makes it back ASAP?
I don't think there will be a move.
Today is Chris Carpenter day, and tomorrow is an off day.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
plus we have McClellan and Motte ready to go today
Yesterday they weren’t going to pitch unless we went into overtime.
Big ups playah
Agree with you about the Peej-meister, i can see him getting another start if needs be, but with a very short leash
PJ = PK 2.0
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
Except
Puppy Kicker has better stuff.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 2, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
apparently we need to ballot-stuff more
or Chooch is gonna win out over Yadi.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Can you be unappreciated and lead the All-Star voting?
Chase Utley is really trying.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
He is under appreciated on his team
but not amongst second basemen. I think the Phillies fans know that he is a good 2B but they still think Howard, Rollins, etc. are better than him overall
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Well yeah Rollins and Howard are better
Howard stole won an MVP and Rollins had one of the longest hitting streaks in recent history. FESPN loves them. What has Utley ever done?
I hate that the ASG starters are determined by fan-vote.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
He always starts this way
until he heats up for the last 2 months and then takes an MVP from a consistantly great player… <cough, cough>
have I ever mentioned how much I hate the Phillies?
if I have, it deserves mentioning again.
and again.
and again.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
by purple_haze on Jun 2, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
yeah that and
he’s not the best 3B in the NL. he’s just NOT.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Freese is better
Zimmerman is so much better its not even fucking funny.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 2, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you are talking underrated.
I would argue Zimmerman is a hell of a close second to Utley. That dude has been on the DL, and still puts up comparable numbers to most 3b. It’s ridiculous how much credit he doesn’t get and deserves.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
it is now my mission in life to make sure polanco does not start at 3B for the NL
don’t the fans want to win for once?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I did my part :).
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I don't believe you
it’s not in your sig
j/k
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
A thought on tonights game
LeCure sounds like a really villan-y name, try saying it with a french accent sounds veeeeery sinister.
“tonight Mr. Carpenter you will meet your doom… at the hands of LeCURE!!!!!!! *maniacal laughter followed by lightning strike”
he's a local kid
Jeff City
http://www.globe-democrat.com/news/2010/jun/02/jefferson-citys-sam-lecure-excited-pitch-reds-agai/
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
oh the pain of it.
Each of those family members is a Cardinals fan.
"That’s who they root for. I was like, ‘Do you guys think you could root for me for one day?" LeCure said Tuesday. "I’d appreciate it."
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
If I had a relative
who played for the Cubs, I would tell him, "Dude, nobody said you had to sign with that sorry franchise. You could have gone off and played for the St. Paul Saints and waited a year for another team to draft you.
“Enjoy the suck.”
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 2, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I have heard good things about the St. Paul Saints
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
actually i was talking about him being a young pitcher
under Dusty’s tutelage… he’s screwed
but that too i guess
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 2, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Is there anyone here who would be willing to get me a working proxy?
I’m in the hospital and they have the dang server list blocked…grrrrr
Want to watch the Braves/Phils and I’m in the Atlanta Market, and they don’t have FOX sportsouth on the tv here.
Apologies if this violates a rule or something.
in for something serious?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Actually here with my girlfriend, who had pretty major surgery today
by RollBirdsRoll on Jun 2, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
and we're not creepy at all.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Anyone here know anything about buffer overflow attacks?
(don’t worry, I’m not trying to hax anybody)
How do i figure out the exact address the buffer is writing to?
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
ha
I first read this as butter overflow attacks. Thought maybe you were having a problem with a baked potato or something.
Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 2, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Would be nice to see our old friend Scott Rolen
get a few more votes for the All-Star game. Yeah I know he hurt us last night but I still like the guy. He’s not even in the top 5 in voting. Both he and Freese deserve to be closer to the top of the voting.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
if Placido Polanco tops the voting this year
so help me god i will…
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
...wait for the Cards to re-hire him?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
True,
but can you sacrifice the time that would be required?
I would hope Rolen will get in as a reserve at least over Wright
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
If you go by WAR...
…then at this point, the three guys most deserving in the NL at 3B are Ryan Zimmerman, Rolen…and David Freese!
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
Speaking of WAR....
Can you name the MLB Franchise leaders in WAR??
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
that is hard - too hard
amazing that Pujols is 4th on the Cards list
that would be first on 17 teams
that would be second on 5 teams
amazing that he would be on every major league roster except the braves… and he’s not done with his career yet
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
Musial, Hornsby, Gibson, Pujols, Rolen maybe?
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Replace Rolen with the Wizard, and you're golden.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
ah shit
I almost said that! well, they are both defensive wizards
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I just blank on these tests.
Too many names to remember. Julio Lugo is on the Rays list? Who was supposed to get that?
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
also, I missed Pete Rose, somehow
he was the only one of the Reds that I missed. How does that happen?
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
He is banned from baseball;
therefore, his WAR is stricken from the record books.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just sitting there going
“Bench, Morgan, Larkin and Robinson… WHO ELSE???”
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
I didn't even click on that
doesn’t seem sfw
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Sociopath...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
“I know deep down u are curious how I could feel lol I love touching ur legs when ur near me ur sexy . . . I had a dream about u it was so real lol.”
sounds like American Psycho
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
That is just WACKED
Boy I have no idea why women think men are weird.
Braves just helped Kyle Kendrick out....
….4 pitch inning.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
I did pick the braves to win the east
although, I didn’t pick the Pads in the west. I wonder if they finish in first at the end of the season, what the odds of that would be… 500/1?
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
IIRC, I had Rockies, Cards, Phils (Braves Wild Card); Angels, Twins, Yankees (Rays Wild Card)
Though I did say the A’s would make some noise in the AL West…
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
me too
silly me
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
that division sucks though
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
at first I had Braves in first
then I switched to Phils in first and Braves for wild card when I did that projections thingy
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
TLR can't say scotty's name:
“He’s healthy and we have seen that. He’s an outstanding player when he’s healthy. He’s playing outstanding for them. Probably their manager’s getting more out of him than I did. I know people are going to speculate that and it’s probably true. I’m sure it’s true. When he’s healthy — and he’s healthy – he’s an outstanding player.”
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
apparently TLR has forgotten 2004
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll never understand how him and Scott had such a falling out.
Tony is focused on the “healthy” aspect though.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
say my name say my name
you actin’ kinda shady
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Rolen has 68.2 WAR per FanGraphs, 63.6 per Baseball Reference
He could easily finish in the top 50 all time position players if he stays healthy for a couple more years. He’s only 35 and his defense and power seem to be excellent still.
He’s a no brainer HOF in my opinion. Why the fuck did we get rid of him again?
didn't look like a bad deal for the first year
Cardinals got themselves out from under a big contract a year early, averted a clubhouse problem that seemed like the unavoidable side-effect of a La Russa club, and got an excellent year from Troy Glaus while Rolen’s power continued to vanish. Then Glaus vanished, and it didn’t look so good.
oh, I was and am a huge Rolen fan
even Brendan Ryan doesn’t give me quite the same defensive thrill I got from watching Scott Rolen make his leaping dives over the foul line. He had (has) such great reflexes.
and then that cannon to finish the play
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think this is pretty much 100% not right
Brendan Ryan has never thrown a ball as hard as Scott Rolen in his life.
There's like 8 more of those if you'd like
Ryan’s arm isn’t very close, and that’s not a knock on Ryan.
Not afraid to nitpick
he does throw the ball that hard
whether it’s an accurate throw is a whole other thing.
…but seriously, now that he’s on track, I’m curious to see if the wrist surgery makes a difference.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
club house cancer! and only grit is the treatment!
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
he was hurt
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I am a big Rolen fan.
But, at the time, I liked the deal. In fact, I felt that we had swindled the Blue Jays because I thought Rolen’s shoulder injury had ended his days of hitting for power. How wrong I was. Nonetheless, had we not traded him, it seems unlikely that he would still be a Cardinal this season; although, perhaps we could have avoided Thurston, the DeRosa trade, and the post-wrist injury DeRosa (of which, the Giants have a year and a half left). This also does not address the butting of heads that he and TLR engaged in.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, it's worth noting
that even though glaus missed an entire season he “only” played 78 fewer games than Rolen in 2008 and 2009.
good point
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
regardless, i don't think it would have worked out well to have rolen and TLR in the same dugout
this year and last year’s team chemistry seems better than its been in years, and i think even before the injuries, there were hints during the MV3 years that the players didn’t necessarily get along (enter Reggie Smith).
i can’t imagine how the team could consistently play well with a manager and player that didn’t talk to each other. but i do love scott.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Rolen wanted out.
He was extremely displeased with the medical staff who he felt mishandled his initial operation.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
So guess who's going to Game 4 of the NBA Finals in Boston?
My friend won some sort of Sprite contest, and I’m getting flown out to Boston for free for the game
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
that's great
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'd never get out of the Garden alive
Wearing Lakers gear after the inevitable Finals beat down that is coming.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
You're a Lakers fan, yeah?
I actually hate both teams, but I couldn’t turn down a free flight and free tickets to an NBA Finals game. I’m gonna spend all that saved money on booze before the game. It’s gonna be awesome
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I hate both teams too
but it would still be entertaining. Enjoy :).
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I hate Jonny Gomes
How does he make so many stupid faces? Look at this stupid face.

Man, I hate him. Almost as much as Braun. Almost.
HE TRIED TO TAKE OUT LARUE
LARUE DANCED AND STILL GOT BOTH OUTS
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Can somebody make an animated gif of him getting hit last night?
I want to watch it on repeat for all eternity. That guy is a royal class jag-bag.
by cloistermaximus on Jun 2, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
His last name.
He is of Portuguese ancestry, (per http://www.portuguesefoundation.org/famous.htm) and according to a guy I know from a near where Gomes grew up (Yes, this is total hearsay), the family changed the pronunciation of his last name from the Portuguese sounding GO-MACE to the caucasion sounding GOME-S for whatever reason.
That bugs some people, I couldnt care less though.
Living in Tampa and being a partial Rays fan it's hard for me...
if it wasn’t for Gomes the Rays would’ve had zero swagger in ’08.
by jackhammerslam on Jun 2, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
how infuriating
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
And when Ubaldo starts regressing to the 3.5 xFIP
Everyone is going to be wondering what the eff is wrong with Ubaldo. It’s so stupid.
Not afraid to nitpick
He's going to regress
But he’s holding teams to a .232 slugging right now. Only 14 XBH in 11 starts (13 2B, 1 HR).
Nobody can make good contact off of him at all this season.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Great -- make me do fucking math whydon'tcha
He’s given up 46 hits and 14 of them have been for extra bases. Subtracting his strikeouts from the AB’s gives him 198 AB’s where the ball was put in play.
32 (singles) + 26 (doubles) + 4 (HR) = 62 / 198 = .313 slugging in non-K AB’s
That’s still pretty damn impressive.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Yep, league average is around .500 IIRC
I agree with Joker that he can sustain an ERA below 2 with his current peripherals. I’m guessing he puts up around a 2.5 ERA the rest of the year.
Yeah I know
But it’s going to happen eventually, he’s not rocking the peripherals to maintain a <2 ERA at the very least and just on general principle he’s going to get rocked a couple times as a result and ESPN will run a story that his ERA doubled over some time span and then they’ll have Kruk break down the exact same 99 mph fastball down the pipe he’s been making guys miss except it’ll be on a HR and “Krukie” will be saying he’s lost his command.
Not afraid to nitpick
Command?
What command? He walked EIGHT guys in the no-hitter.
That’s what’s going to be his downfall — he’s going to put guys on base via the BB and then give up a bomb or something.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
That's not my quote
That’s Krukies future quote. If anything he has even less of a clue where the ball is going this year but his stuff has somehow gotten even better.
Not afraid to nitpick
six guys for a season high
one other game he walked 4 beyond that it has been 2 or lower
Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot
silva gets mention
which means they count ubaldo and halladay only. they’re great. but its like waino doesn’t even exist…
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
wasn't that pretty much a joke, though?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
it wasn't funny enough
to merit the wainwright slight, imho…
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
Which will be higher?
Total K’s by Carpenter or Total hits off of Carpenter by the Reds.
It’s today’s featured Beat the Streak game at FESPN. I think it’s a pretty interesting imaginary gamble.
NorCal CARDS FAN
I'd say 9 Ks for Karp today
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
5 hits for the bad guys
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
ya but i bet one is hit 400+ feet fair
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Votto.
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to say Rolen
He already tagged on against Carp in the season opener and had one robbed by Colby in that game as well if I recall.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
no one wants to know what you do in private with real interbutts
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Other than Wainwright being left off again?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
any idea how close waino came to the top 8?
that’s a pretty good list, although i’d order them a bit differently myself.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i would take WW over verlander any day.
thats just dumb
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I'm taking Verlander
More dominant stuff and similar stats but has done it in the AL.
Not afraid to nitpick
Wainwright has been better than Verlander statswise
And if Verlander loses velocity he is fucked.
Besides I think the AL gap is overrated. A lot of it is driven by the AL East.
yes
WW has a better GB rate, HR/FB %, gives up less homeruns, lower ERA and lower FIP. and he’s cheaper.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
i think it that scenario
they were all getting the same contract, so money doesn’t factor into it at all. age obviously does, as you’re looking 4 years out, and thus no halladay, sabathia, etc.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
OK I just made some comments there about Wainwright
I would find a way to stick Adam Wainwright in here. 3.24 FIP over the past three season in ~450 innings. His ERA over that span is 2.73. He’s past his prime, but has improved every year he’s been in the rotation and is durable as hell. Besides he’s a guy who is successful without having a 95+ MPH fastball like the rest of the guys on this list. I would think fastball velocity is something that is most likely to decline due to injury, and that could really hurt a guy like Strasburg or Johnson or Verlander.
Plus Wainwright has a career .258 wOBA as a hitter in 275 plate appearances including 5 homers, and if you watch him hit it’s clear that he actually has some idea of what he’s doing. If you regress that down to .230 and consider the average pitcher is around .160, that’s another 5 runs in 80 plate appearances over 200 inning season, which is worth another .225 points of ERA.
I’m probably a little biased towards Wainwright being a Cardinals fan, but all of the evidence points towards him likely being better than Felix or Verlander or Jimenez.
past his prime???
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 2, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh
I’m not sure that’s really concrete. I know MGL has posted things recently that suggest he can’t find a pitcher’s peak on average. Rather most individuals peak unpredictably and then just decline.
It’s certainly less clear cut than hitter’s peak.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
sounds like waino didn't qualify for the list though
further down vep says something about an age cut-off, so there’s no case it seems.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
It's overrated
But it exists, and Verlander’s FIP xFIP were better than Waino’s last year although yeah, worse prior to that. But last year he was a straight monster. While Waino has been better this year (Verlander has been a slow starter the past 3 years for what it’s worth), I still have to stick with Verlander.
Also I don’t really think Verlander would be fucked without 100 mph, his curve and change are pretty filthy. He’d have to adjust for sure, but he’s got really good off-speed too unlike our discussion on Ubaldo. That and he is throwing harder this year than he has in his career anyway…
Not afraid to nitpick
Verlander was quite good last year
Yet Wainwright better if you look at ERA, worse if you look at FIP and the two were essentially equal if you look at xFIP. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the two performed equally last year, and both pitched a ton of innings.
However, in 2008, Wainwright was a lot better than Verlander and so far this year, Wainwright has been a lot better than Verlander. Verlander’s K rate has dropped a ton from last year, while Wainwrights has actually risen. And while Verlander has quality offspeed stuff, it is nowhere near as good as Wainwright’s and Waino’s control is much better.
Well yeah
-Even if the gap is overrated, the fact that their stats aren’t too far off (and the edge to JV) means Verlander was better in the AL.
-But Verlander also has a much, much better fastball and he’s throwing the hardest of his career this year/last.
-I know I’m getting into the anecdotal stuff, but JV has started slowly the past 3 years for what it’s worth.
-I don’t know that anyone is right or wrong here, they might be about equal, either way it’s not really clear cut. But I love me some Justin Verlander, guys who can hit 100 in the 9th are more fun than even Mr. Wainwright’s curve I think.
Not afraid to nitpick
I disagree
-Stats: WW>Verlander over career
-Obviously Wainwright has a much better curve, which is – i think – less likely to deteriorate as velocity decreases with age
-it’s not worth much
I wish I could find the GIF of Verlander v. A-Rod from the playoffs a couple years ago
100-101-hammercurve for a 3 pitch K. It was the most badass AB I have ever seen.
Not afraid to nitpick
I still liked one of Joel Zumaya's at bats against Pujols
Fastball 100 taken, curveball 85 taken, fastball 100 up and in swung on and missed. I think…
He's from another planet
Sitting like 99-103 in his one inning stints is so absurd—-with life, and sometimes sink.
Still not entirely sure why they made him a reliever though given that he really has (or used to have) three pitches. Though I guess it’s taken him awhile to just figure out he needs to pump 101 in the zone and he’ll be good so who knows how the transition to starting would have gone.
Not afraid to nitpick
How can Strasburg be on that list?
If the question is, “Who would you want to give a 4-year, $100MM contract to?,” wouldn’t you at least want some sort of Major League success?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Strasburg I actually agree with
He averages 98 with his fastball and is being called the best pitching prospect ever. He obviously has a larger uncertainty around his projected performance, but his upside is better than anyone else in baseball.
I've just been doing this all day
But he hasn’t really been averaging 98 this year. He’s been more 95-99 with his 4-seam (probably 75%) and 93-96 2-seam.
But yeah averaging about 96andchange is just fine given that his slurve thing is filthy and while his changeup is a little stiff at 87-88 he gets good action on it—-I’d probably put him and Josh Johnson about the same spot.
Not afraid to nitpick
Maybe I'm overly conservative,
which, I may be. I would never give $100MM over four years guaranteed to someone who had never pitched in the big leagues before. Give me at least a little MLB success to hang my hat on…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 2, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
so Strasburg is better than Garcia I guess
he most most probably is, but I’m sure there are better examples than Garcia out there. my point is, dude hasn’t even pitched an ML game yet
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Strasburg is better than Garcia with near certainty
Garcia’s expectation is about Strasburg’s pessimistic case. He’s gotten groundballs in bunches and even if he’s got the 05-06 Verlander case of “100 mph but can’t get Ks” AND loses his the zone, he’s still something like a 7 K/9 4 BB/9 .85 HR/9 4.20 FIP type guy.
Realistically I’d armchair project probably 9-3-.85 K-BB-HR/9 good for a 3.4 FIP now that we’ve seen him dominate the minors.
Not afraid to nitpick
Oliver projects a 2.8 ERA, which is a little too low yes, but it's what you'd expect given his past stats and MLEs
That'd be like 10-2-.8 for K-BB-HR/9
Not sure I’d expect that this season though it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
Not afraid to nitpick
I think his HR rate will be lower and the walk rate will be highger
He’s a pretty extreme ground ball pitcher right? And guys with his stuff don’t allow as many hard hit fly balls.
Minor league stats are kinda weird
He’s been at 65% according to minor league splits, but the scoring on LDs is pretty wonky and guys usually have a lower GB% in the majors in my experiences in looking at it. 50% in the majors would be my guess and that’s how I’m getting around ~.8 HR/9.
Not afraid to nitpick
ok
use a different example of a young pitcher that is already pitching and getting good results.
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think WW got jobbed
That’s what I think. With his contract situation, he’s far more valuable than Felix or Johnson.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Ahhhh...
makes more sense then. I still would rather have WW than Verlander, Felix, or Johnson.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
someone did a really good cain felix write up
kind of shows how wins and ks dominate the discussion
Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot
we got lineup
- BJRains Cardinals Wednesday lineup vs Reds:
Schumaker 4,
Ludwick 9,
Pujols 3,
Holliday 7,
Rasmus 8,
Freese 5,
Molina 2,
Ryan 6,
Carp 1
#stlcards 7 minutes ago via web - BJRains Also, pitcher Adam Ottavino (who La Russa said would likely start Saturday) is listed on the lineup card as an available reliever. 6 minutes ago via web
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I developed my form over several tries
but hopefully my mechanics won’t necessitate surgery later
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Lopez is day-to-day
though the x-ray indicated it’s not serious
he is officially available today
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Reds lineups per Leach
Reds:
1. Cabrera SS
2. Phillips 2B
3. Votto 1B
4. Rolen 3B
5. Bruce RF
6. Gomes LF
7. Stubbs CF
8. Miller C
9. LeCure P
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
LL!
B_Walton #stlcards name Quad Cities OF D’Marcus Ingram and Memphis RHS Lance Lynn as their Player and Pitcher of the Month for May. #hpgf 4 minutes ago via TweetDeck
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I thought Lynn's been struggling
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Not in May -- he was pretty good last month.
Awful in April though, but that’s to be expected when you move up a level.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Brad Penny.... and PROSPECTS!!!1!!
- BJRains Also, Ryan Franklin is hitting grounders to his son and Albert Pujols’ son A.J. at shortstop…..both kids can field. 3 minutes ago via web
- BJRains Brad Penny is currently playing catch in right field…second day in a row he has thrown. 4 minutes ago via web
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Lohse in left and Penny in right
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe that can be how we work Albert's contract
Give the Pujols family 20 mill/year for 30 years or something. When Albert’s done, A.J. takes his place and plays out the 30 years. If there’s a gap, Albert is hitting coach in the meantime.
What if they both play
at the same time? Or Albert is a coach while A.J. plays? We should include this clause in the contract.
I want the Walrus back...
we should think about what AJ wants
he could secretly be a Royals fan, for all we know.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
if he were a Royals fan, if I were Albert... well
we might need to “have a talk”
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 3, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Remember our 4-game sweep of the Braves?
And how defeated their SBN blogger was afterward? Well, look what team’s got the biggest lead of any NL divison leaders. At what point does Charlie Manuel’s seat get hot?
a little?
![]()
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
the towels are good for weeping, too.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I probably need 2 towels, right?
One for Garcia and one for Wallace. You really don’t wanna mix those up…
I want the Walrus back...
the towel stack is endlessly replaced.
it’s up to you to keep them separate. I suggest color-coding.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
that's totally emo
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
should he raise a boombox, now?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I was driving down the road last night
screaming at my radio because the 40,000 asshats in the stadium thought it would be a good idea to give Miles a standing ovation. Then, he pops out and ends the rally that should have pushed the brief cards lead beyond a measly 1 run.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
miles didn't make the last out that inning, and i thought we were still down then
to me apu had a big at-bat when we had taken the brief lead and had a good chance to extend it but he flew out to right to end the inning.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
no, i even like stav more than miles, fwiw
i just thought maybe scoot got a couple scenarios mixed-up, though my recall could be off
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
just kiddin around
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
when miles is involved, chitown, there's no kidding allowed
/kidding
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
super mario will bite you on the back
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 2, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, Albert was oddly underwhelming. or at least un-Albert.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
there's Albert being stretched out
if anyone wants to watch FESPN, i’m sure they’ll have more random coverage throughout SC
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Did y'all hear that Colby got new contacts Tuesday before the game?
scroll down here
Pretty amazing he did as well in April as he did. His new ’script is three levels stronger!
You can read it in any tone you like.
seriously
Wouldn’t you think that a standard physical and eye check would be part of Spring Training?
You would think.
At any rate, he went out and saw the ball much better last night. :)
You can read it in any tone you like.
difference being colby already in bigs
longoria had to agree in order to get to the bigs sooner
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
should have done it when he was blind
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Jun 2, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
... I laughed
damn me
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'll bet they do so after this season.
Death needs time for what it kills to grow in.
by the red baron on Jun 2, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
albert or colby first?
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
Colby.
He’ll be much simpler. Not that he’ll take priority, just that his contract will be much easier to work out.
Death needs time for what it kills to grow in.
by the red baron on Jun 2, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
i first read this as
Colby got a new contract.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 2, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
If I'm the one to announce Colby's contract, it'll be more like "OMFG GUYS COLBY HAS A NEW CONTRACT."
You can read it in any tone you like.
is the dbacks starter still in?
i can’t imagine that the bullpen has managed to not give up a run.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Edwin Jackson had a 9 inning shutout but had to be taken out
Just for good measure in the 7th he worked an 11 pitch AB that ended with a line drive hit.
If there are any W-L supporters out there: fuck you.
Not afraid to nitpick
Nope.
Bottom 12 now, Ethier up, Carlos Rosa pitching.
Death needs time for what it kills to grow in.
by the red baron on Jun 2, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
it's the bottom of the 12th
heilmann pitched, and now rosa – struck out ethier to begin the inning.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
got it on now
sometimes i forget that i can use a proxy to watch dbacks games, too.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
30 straight scoreless innings for d'backs offense
who do they think they are, the phils?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Interesting...
BenBadler
Cardinals near final steps of $1.5 million deal with Dominican RHP Carlos Matias, who throws high-90s http://bit.ly/9Qu8vh
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I like that
I’m sure they did their due diligence, but even if the guy is actually 20…..he’s still a 20 year old hitting 99 with an idea of where it’s going.
Not afraid to nitpick
ya
he’s probably 24, but thats still ok
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
someone's gonna get fired if that's the case
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
having 7 kids is sort of a red flag though
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Also from Badler
“If Matias deal with Cardinals goes through, he might be the best pitcher any team signs this year on the international market”
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i thought he was going to get closer to $500k to $1M
I also thought he was a mid 90’s fastball not high 90’s
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 2, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
according to MLBTR
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/06/cardinals-agree-to-deal-with-carlos-matias.html
He was mid-90’s but now he’s high-90’s, i’m calling cybernetic implants
it could just be OMS☨
☨old man strength
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
You watch your mouth, you little prick
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I would if I knew what the question was
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Random pic: Is this Big Mac's new wife? WTF

Sorry if this is nex def’d
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
chicks dig the long ball.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
looks like most of the ballplayers' wives. it's a little weird that there's a type.
thanks for using a cropped version, btw, because the full one is kind of… distracting.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
DON'T YOU POST IT VEP
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Jun 2, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Woo! I haven't heard the word "tata's" used since the late 1960's! Old school!
that’s a lie i was born in 91
yours is the generation of retro
for all you know, it’s come back already
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
go get it yourself
http://www.frankrank.com/usercontent/item/org_item_1242943297.jpg
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
Are you guys telling me....
that you missed the whole SI 2005 Swimsuit edition? What kind of basement dwellers are you?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
that photo has even been posted on veb
i didn’t realize it was from SI though.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
BBTN... beautiful shot of Busch
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
we're getting Sutcliffe
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Cholly calls out his team for being complacent losers
why couldn’t they have been complacent a month ago??
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
hey! there's Big Z
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Big Z has a rain delay
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Cardinals sign someone from Dominican Republic not called Albert Pujols
we're
they do have an academy there. there’s a bunch of other guys besides him, iirc.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
looked and did not find
ooops
well yeah, but no-one else half as well known, well no-one with two functioning eyes at least
Half as well known as Albert?
That’s probably b/c Albert’s drafting was a product of the American system.
You can read it in any tone you like.
yeah, they sign plenty of dominican players
we just don’t hear about them individually – just “cards sign 10-15…” – unless there’s big money involved.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
not responsible for the legibility of blockquotes
Josh Byrnes did NOT deny the possibility of trading Dan Haren because of standings and payroll:sounds like he will be traded to me @deadline about 2 hours ago via web
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
What would it take to bring him back to good old St. Louis
Now there is someone i would trade the world for. even if the world looked like Shelby Miller
i think that's a bad idea.
Haren has been on and off this year. and also, i feel like the GOBs would be tricking us. like, oh look here, you can get your guy back, finally! and then his arm falls off and we cry while Shelby Miller makes the all-star team.
those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it…
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I see where your coming from
But this is completly different, this time we’d be trading the lefty FOR the righty….
ok, i don’t convince even myself
what lefty?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I have not spent the last 12 months believing Shelby miller is lefthanded
not at all
what gave you that idea?
dodgers had a guy on third with the balk-off pitcher on mound for d'backs
gave up a hit this time to end it.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i'd rather pry drew away from them than haren
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
based on needs and cost (both salary and prospects)
i’d rather have drew – at least it’s realistic, too.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Weather tonight
Weather.com says the rain will hold off til about 9. Anyone in the StL area who can actually… you know… look at the clouds, give a better idea?
Gamethreads suck.
It's sunny right now.
But it was overcast all day with a really freaking dark storm cloud covering 1/3 of the sky this morning. So who knows.
You can read it in any tone you like.
GUYS BREAKING NEWS GRIFFEY IS RETIRING
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
OMFG
I just felt a great disturbance in the force. It was as if millions tens of mariners fans all sighed at once
Block quote incoming
This information is being released to the media now. This has all come down very suddenly. We are still working out when and how we will pay proper tribute to Ken, who is and will remain a very important member of the Seattle Mariners family.
Everybody is really depressed at work now
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
fespn just put it out
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Griff's Statement
I’ve come to a decision today to retire from Major League Baseball as an active player. This has been on my mind recently, but it’s not an easy decision to come by. I am extremely thankful for the opportunity to have played Major League Baseball for so long and thankful for all of the friendships I have made, while also being proud of my accomplishments.
I’d like to thank my family for all of the sacrifices they have made all of these years for me. I’d like to thank the Seattle Mariners organization for allowing me to finish my playing career where it started. I look forward to a continued, meaningful relationship with them for many years to come.
While I feel I am still able to make a contribution on the field, and nobody in the Mariners front office has asked me to retire, I told the Mariners when I met with them prior to the 2009 season and was invited back, that I will never allow myself to become a distraction. I feel that without enough occasional starts to be sharper coming off the bench, my continued presence as a player would be an unfair distraction to my teammates, and their success as team is what the ultimate goal should be.
My hope is that my teammates can focus on baseball and win a championship for themselves and for the great fans of Seattle, who so very much deserve one. Thanks to all of you for welcoming me back, and thanks again to everyone over the years who has played a part in the success of my career.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
interesting he says he would've been sharper with some occasional starts
i’m assuming he means in the field?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Well, he signed as a DH, so I don't think there was any expectation on his part that he'd play the field
But for the last month or so, he’s only been used as an occasional pinch hitter. I think he has like one AB in the last week
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Oh, the first statement was an email from Mariners President and COO Chuck Armstrong
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
YES!!!!!!!!!!!! HANDSHAKE DANCE ON BBTN
HE CAN’T PRONOUNCE “MATHER” BUT WHO CARES. BOOG AND BOMBS!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by 




























