The Last Time I Saw Benes
by DanUpBaby on Jun 15, 2010 4:32 AM EDT
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PrintFurther housekeeping: SB Nation St. Louis officially launches today.
Everybody involved has been putting a lot of work into it, and I'm excited to finally be able to show it off. To celebrate, SB Nation has coordinated a meetup that I've already mentioned a few times, but what's one more between friends? Here's the e-vite:
Please join your friends from SB Nation and your fellow St. Louis sports fans for an evening of good company, great sports conversation and free stuff.
Tuesday, June 15, 2010
6:00 - 8:00 PM
Schlafly Tap Room
2100 Locust Street (at 21st), St. Louis, MO
I can't endorse the lack of a perfectly good serial comma, and I'm not yet sure how much free stuff is being provided, but if you'd like to visit and come talk acronyms with your internet friends, RSVP at this link! I'll be there! Wearing a nametag!
Gods of Baseball theology question: do you believe in a benevolent lineup that is deeply involved in life and blog morale? I could always use a serious run-scoring binge delivered by the top of the order, but with Jeff Suppan not just signed but starting today—with Aaron Miles still on the roster instead of, say, Tyler Greene, who's now hitting .308/.374/.487—with the team having hit .227 with 19 runs on their long road trip, it was especially gratifying to see a lineup whose top hitters couldn't be retired.
And whose top hitters were ordered in such a way as to maximize their performance to this point and minimize the fan criticism that's sprung up around Matt Holliday's bizarre inability to drive in runners! There hasn't been such a boost to the stathead fanbase since the Cardinals opened the season with Jaime Garcia and Allen Craig on the roster, and it comes right before the Cardinals enter a part of the season that relies more than any other to date on the intuition of Tony La Russa and Dave Duncan. It didn't happen for us, but it certainly worked out pretty well.
The Ryan Ludwick the Cardinals find in the clean-up role is somewhere between the one we optimistically projected back in 2009 and the one that ZiPS saw back then. That .292 isolated slugging percentage from 2008 is looking more and more like an aberration; since 2008 only Ryan Howard and Albert Pujols (twice), Carlos Pena, and Prince Fielder have managed higher ones. But if it turns out the batting average was more real than we thought—ZiPS projected it at .274 in 2009—Ludwick is a valuable, well-rounded hitter who in 2010 has turned into an incredibly tenacious defender. How tenacious? Last night he kept a similarly overqualified right fielder, Ichiro, from scoring by making a perfect throw home. This year his UZR/150 is actually slightly higher than Ichiro's, at 17.9.
The sample sizes are small, but it's so clear visually, too; Ludwick just looks like a different oufielder. I have no better word for it: in 2008 and 2009 he seemed goofy in right field, running gingerly to the ball, taking weird routes. If something was bothering him physically, it isn't now.
But as La Russa is no doubt saying, now's no time to congratulate ourselves. Tomorrow Jeff Suppan is making his first start in a Cardinal uniform since 2006. Statistics had no part in this decision: It was all about Dave Duncan and Tony La Russa discovering a flaw in his mechanics, believing in him personally, and trusting their judgments over what the number might say. So that leaves us analysts without much to say, except "blech" (qualified by the blechiness of the other options.) If you want to make an optimistic comparison about this, you can remember Andy Benes. If you want to make a negative comparison about this, I offer, with some reservations, Mike Maroth.
Andy Benes's stunning run in 2002 occasioned one of my all-time favorite Baseball Prospectus capsules:
Went out in a blaze of glory, with his best bud at his side and the Bolivian Army waiting for them armed to the teeth, and then Newman says to Redford...oops, at any rate, let's just say Benes went down fighting. Unlike his stretch drive performance for the Mariners in 1995, Benes was desperately needed for the Cardinals in August and September. After reconsidering an early decision to retire with knee trouble that was never going to go away, he gave the Cards a dozen starts down the stretch where he gave up as many as three runs only once, and finishing the year with a game effort against the Giants in the NLCS. And then, rather than being carried off on his shield or waiting for them to mail it to him, he said "enough." It was a hell of a career, and he'll be missed.
Which is about what it felt like at the time. After putting together three awful starts in April, including 12 walks in 10 innings, Benes was a disabled list ghost all year; at one point I remember the camera drifting to him warming up in the bullpen, and one of the announcers wondering, honestly, what he was even doing out there.
But in July the Cardinals had nobody left to try. Darryl Kile had died, Garrett Stephenson was gone, Bud Smith was injured and about to be traded, Travis Smith hadn't impressed, and Jason Simontacchi's invincibility star had worn off. The Josh Pearce experiment had ended and the Jamey Wright experiment hadn't yet started. So out of the bullpen trots Andy Benes, who appears to have nothing left at all, is wearing this enormous, tumorous brace on his knee, and walks around the field with all the easy grace of a man who's spent six months under the effects of moon gravity.
And nobody can hit him. Benes allows one run or less in 9 of his last 15 appearances. He loses twice, once when he goes four and two-thirds innings and allows one run and again when he goes six and one-third and allows two. The Cardinals go 10-4 in his starts, and along with Chuck Finley he stabilizes a rotation that makes this one look—well, like a rotation, and then vanishes into the night, returning only to host Cardinals Clubhouse with Fredbird. It was perfect.
Mike Maroth's 2007 Baseball Prospectus capsule went a little like this:
Last season, the Cardinals traded for, claimed, or signed Todd Wellemeyer, Troy Percival, Tomo Ohka, Joel Pineiro, and Maroth. If you knew nothing else about their season, you would still be able to diagnose precisely what the problem was. Percival and Pineiro sort of worked out, but the Cards lost 12 of the 14 games in which Maroth pitched. He just didn't have enough stuff to survive his first major injury, and is likely done as a relevant pitcher.
Yep. (Also, remember Tomo Ohka?) Mike Maroth steps into a rotation that is using Kip Wells, Todd Wellemeyer, Brad Thompson, and the bad version of Anthony Reyes. Adam Wainwright was only the ace by default, and Chris Carpenter was due back sometime in 2008.
And no one can hit him. For one game. Maroth engenders some early sympathy for not being Chris Lambert and allowing just one run in this hard-luck loss. From then on he allows 55 runs in 30 and two-thirds innings, which is astonishing, and finds himself used in eight consecutive games in which one of the two teams has scored at least 10 runs. The team goes 2-12 in games in which he appears.
Maroth's last brief stab at relevance is fair warning: no matter what happens, if the Cardinals are desperate enough to use Jeff Suppan they're also desperate enough to see what happens, whether the early returns are good or bad.
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Good post Dan
I remember Maroth’s first start and actually feeling some hope that he might be a good pitcher (that was before I was into sabermetrics and what not). Then, obviously, he failed. My lord was 2007 terrible.
By the way, Pujols game last night raised his wOBA from .400 to .408, his batting average from .300 to .309 and his WAR from 2.3 to 2.5. God do I hate Small Sample Size.
Rasmus is tied for the 7th best wOBA in baseball this year. His OBP is 12th best and his slugging is 9th best. This coming from a 23 year old in his second season who plays an above average centerfield.
Rasmus has become a genuine star this year IMO
he’d be the best player on what, about a dozen teams in MLB? Pretty good to say that you could argue he’s only our 4th or 5th.
FWIW, at the time I liked the Maroth signing too. He’d been a solid, mid-to-back of the rotation pitcher between 02 and 06 and even though I (like you) knew nothing about advanced metrics back then, his FIP and ERA during that period were both in the mid-4’s and he’d been pretty durable. Bad 2007 maybe, and the injury obviously pretty much finished him off, but I think we got him for basically nothing (the spectral Chris Lambert IIRC) and it seemed worth a shot to see if Duncan could fix him. He was younger than Suppan, had a more recent successful season (2 years ago, as opposed to 3 in Soup’s case), and his struggles were attributable to injury (rather than getting old and having shitty stuff, in Suppan’s case), which may or may not be a good thing depending on how you look at it. So really, I think the Maroth signing (in a year in which we sucked and had no alternatives anyway) was probably better than the Suppan one, at the time.
Here’s hoping Duncan can fix something with Soup, but really, I just think he’s probably done. I’m not aversed to giving him a chance because the alternatives in AAA are not pretty (though I’ve been a cautiously optimistic Evan MacLane fan since last year, even he’s not been able to mystify AAA hitters this year and success at MLB seems somewhat unlikely).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I was about as big of an Edmonds fan that you’ll find, but the emergence of Rasmus has given me hope that we’ll have an equally stellar CF for years to come. Hopefully he can be as clutch as Jimmy was, but that’s asking an awful lot of a kid given the historic late inning heroics in the field and at the plate that we all remember from Jimmy…
Why does ESPN not use PA on thier stats?
I was going to compare how different Colby is when he puts the ball in play to when he is striking out at unankiel like rates. But apparently it’s to difficult for them to have an extra column right next to the “AB”.
Bah humbug.
assuming AB + BB = PA
I know this is going to leave a few Sacrifices off but:
April .323/.463/.708/(!)1.171; Walk% – 20%; K% – 27%
May .226/.320/.357/(!).677; Walk% – 12%; K% – 35%
June (so far) .406/.457.884/1.301; Walk% -8%; K% -16%
Anyway, when Rasmus isn’t striking out he is a pure stud.
HBP as well.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
just use fangraphs or baseball-reference.com
I have found ESPN sorely lacking in most aspects
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
cool,
thanks for looking this up. just last night i was wondering aloud how the regression of both his BABIP and his K rate would affect his overall stats. i think it’s entirely possible he can keep his current production levels once his BABIP regresses if he can keep his K rate well below the 30% or whatever he’s at right now. and if we’ve just got an extra .400 wOBA guy lying around in colby rasmus then, well, that is good
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
i guess he's actually .414 right now
and it’s june
holy shit
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
If all our hitters get in a groove at the same time our offense is so awesome
Pujols-Holliday-Ludwick-Rasmus-Freese is a fearsome fivesome.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Um. Did you forget Aaron Miles?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I think he is the bat that puts us past the Rays and Yankees
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
he doesn't seem like he lets
clutch situations affect him. i don’t see any reason why he won’t come through in those situations just as big as he always does
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
They were talking on the radio the other day which Cardinals deserve to be All-Starts
Rasmus was not listed. The dude is mashing the shit out of the ball. All Hail Tony Rasmus! They thought Ludwick might make it but not a peep about Rasmus
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
he's been the 2nd best CF in the NL this year
so I think he should be on the bench at least. Realistically, he’s a more exciting prospect than Marlon Byrd, too, so I wonder if he should even be starting. Actually, who else is it likely to be? Probably end up being F’ing Victorino given the amount of Phillies ballot-stuffing that’s been going on….
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
According to the email the Cardinals just sent me, here are the top 6 OFers in the All-Star balloting:
1. Ryan Braun
2. Jason Heyward
3. Andrew Ethier
4. Jayson Werth
5. Shane Victorino
6. Matt Holliday
The Cardinals tell me that “…Holliday still need[s] [my] vote,” but, to them, I say that Holliday does not deserve my vote; rather, Ludwick and Rasmus are more deserving of All-Star votes this season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, agreed
I can’t really argue with any of the top 3, though. It’s nice to give guys like Ludwick token votes when they have strong years, but it is the All STAR game and I really think it’s fair enough that the big stars who draw in the crowds should be involved, even at the expense of guys having temporarily bigger seasons. Braun would be in that category, arguably Holliday and Manny too (though looks like Manny won’t be there), and you can’t argue that Heyward and Ethier are having high-profile years. That said, Victorino should NOT be in there; I think Rasmus should be starting in CF. Realistically, none of the top 4 guys should ever be playing in centre.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
heyward can handle center
I don’t disagree with rasmus starting in center, but outside of our division I doubt many casual fans know who rasmus even is. He may get selected by a coach to be on the bench but as long as the fans vote for the starters it’ll always be big market teams who get the most players.
by lopey986 on Jun 15, 2010 12:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
HOW IS JASON HEYWARD NOT LEADING THE VOTING?!
WE MUST CORRECT THIS TRAGEDY
by jd is legend on Jun 15, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair to heyward
he’s having a damn impressive year and a lot of the OFers ahead of him on offensive production aren’t guys you’d want to see in the ASG particularly (incidentally, one of them is Andres Torres who’s having, if you pardon the pun, a torrid year – ThePainGuy for coach of the year honours, anyone? Also, on the subject of Giants players, anyone looked at Aubrey Huff’s 2010 line lately? Holy shit!)
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair to Rasmus, he is blowing Heyward's season out of the water
by vivaelpujols on Jun 15, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't realize he had 30 points of wOBA on Heyeard
What the hell do people want Rasmus to do around here? Build Ballpark Stadium or something?
Think; It's not illegal yet.
I don't get the feeling he has the architectual design skills to undertake such a task
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 15, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now Ted Moseby: Sex Architect...
There’s a man who could do that job
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Seriously though
a .411 wOBA and some people equivocate on how good Rasmus is. Amazing. He’s on pace to be something like a 5 WAR player at this rate.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
I've learned one big thing in life
people, they are stupid
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
by mattyfrommo on Jun 15, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yup
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 17, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he did incur the ire of TLR
And if TLR doesn’t like you, you must have done something wrong. Ask Scott Rolen, that guy sucks too.
this year's bat and last year's glove
he’s in the 7-8 WAR range…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
What would his career glove and his career bat look like over a full season at this point?
In terms of a full season’s WAR.
Not too shabby
I’ll take the over on that, given that I think his glove is better than UZR thinks it is this year, and that his hitting is legitimately improving (due to improved patience).
my impression
was that the Rasmus “hate” is coming from trollish posters.
and the people defending him are more numerous … and have grown more annoying than the original trolls. it’s like starting a flame war with a lolcat, what in the world is that going to do?
the more people say he’s being hated, the more the impression grows that he is. I don’t think a straw poll of VEB posters would actually root out people who don’t like him. it is more likely they are making fun of the people who are copy/pasting his wOBA every ten seconds.
unless, of course, you live on the P-D boards.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Yeah I think I agree
also, I don’t think I’ve really seen any anti-Rasmus vitriol on here, pretty much at all? I think even a few of the posters who were in favour of him losing playing time last year have noted that he is one of our best players this year.
I’ve said I think he’s over-rated (in general) defensively, but that’s it. About my only other problem with him is that he’s not in possession of a 7 or 8 year contract with the Cardinals, yet (get to it, Mo!).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
A lot of the Rasmus hate is coming from a certain journalist.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Clark Kent?!?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
oh that creepy superman guy out front
he was having his picture taken with children. bizarre.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Marlon Byrd apparently
having a career offensive year and UZR likes his defence, too.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we can pretty much throw out UZR in 1/3 of a season
Especially when the scouting side of it is going to come pretty conclusively supporting Rasmus…
Not afraid to nitpick
Yeah, I'm not high on UZR in general
but using it in the WAR calc, Byrd’s been better.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, UZR hates Rasmus this year
Which doesn’t pass the eye test for me. I understand docking him some points for his arm, but his range has seemed fine
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I think he's looked average at best this year in the field
but I’ve probably not seen as many games as a lot of folk here so I would probably bow to their better judgement.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I've watched most of the games
And my view has been that he’s been blundery sometimes (lack of awareness, awful throws), but in terms of the important stuff like range, he’s been pretty impressive.
Voting
or stuffing the ballots, as they do in less secure precincts, is in order!
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jun 15, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
i remember maroth too, vep
and thinking the same thing.
as for raz, he’ll right the ship and get going. just hoping that the skirmish with tlr doesn’t lead to future issues.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 15, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
He'll right the ship and get going?!
Regression, bitches.
by spants on Jun 15, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The NL? God help Planet Earth
If a .414 wOBA is struggling, then I imagine a “hot streak” looks like this every time he swings the bat.
I sometimes think he just picks completely random comments about players by throwing a dart at a board...
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone needs to write a random zoomzoom comment generator
I would if I had time
by jd is legend on Jun 15, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
DOn't forget, we drafted a Baby Benes this year...
dunno if they are related, but, apart from Elaine and her jerky dances, we seem to be Benes-mad!
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
yes, they are related
there was live draft coverage right here. it’s not extensive…. it was just live. plenty to ruminate over.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
reason #2309482 to wring Rick Horton till he shuts up
He went on and on about how NOBODY thought of that lineup. NO ONE.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I love how switching Luddy and Holliday is such a huge fucking deal
by vivaelpujols on Jun 15, 2010 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions
it's choice of story
ya got the manager with a record number of lineups, the big ole contract, and the rest of the stories begin with “Suppan”, “DL”, or “walk-off losses”. if they didn’t shake that teacup, all the stories would suck.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
You should go back to last season
and see how many times batting Holliday second came up here, just to show how incredibly wrong Ricky Horton was.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
as soon as he opens his mouth, it's pretty obvious...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well done.
If I’m not mistaken, didn’t Bernie propose this lineup a few days ago, too? Of course, it’s not like it’s Ricky’s job to talk Cardinals baseball…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
'we're professionals, why didn't we think of this?'
i think Parris must have a clause in his contract that he can’t throttle anyone on-air.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's the thing about Horton
He’s lousy. Terrible. Awful. And yet after listening to curmudgeon Al, who’s awful and a crotchety jerk, Horton seems strangely likable. It’s difficult to explain. Everytime I get to listen to Horton and not Al I get a strange leaping joy in my heart, which then dies off because I remember that Horton is just as clueless without being Al-like.
The Cardinals need new announcers. All of them.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I muted those games
I just can’t take those two in duo. Seriously they couldn’t get someone else to fill in?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually like Dan
I thought he did a damn fine job with the college baseball last weekend
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
I like Dan too.
He’s stuck with Al every night. I cut the guy a little slack for his shortcomings.
Regression, bitches.
I should have said something to that effect
Dan’s kind of monotonic and business-like and needs a good color guy. Al is not that. Not. At. All.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that is just Dan's way off keeping his cool
so he doesn’t kill AL on the air
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
i like dan, too
he gets on my nerves occasionally, but you can tell he’s a big fan of the team and he calls a good game. even if he is a little premature on some fly balls
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I've come to appreciate Rooney more, in recent months
does his homework, is obviously proud of his ability to pronounce Spanish names correctly, provides welcome lucidity to the pairing with Shannon, pretty good about actually calling the game, etc.
If he keeps at it, eventually he’ll get better at judging fly balls….
i think that is just a side effect from sitting next to shannon
anything the cards hit deeper than 250 ft is near the wall
maybe thats cause he is seeing about 3-4 balls after a few franklins…
no way
That’s all Rooney. One of the things Shannon is truly good at as an announcer is calling homers.
That's because when he tells 'em to "Get Up," they listen
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
"swing! a home run"
i love that. i wish it was easier to sync ktrs and fsmw
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
ot "Yosh'!!!"
I want the Japanese feed of the World Cup. that was awesome.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Benes' Last Stand
What I remember about that last run by Andy was that he came back with a new pitch (a splitter, I believe since Dave Veres was still on the team).
Picked it up from Finley
At least that’s what Andy said at the time.
yahoo does not believe it is *Ludwick*
ST. LOUIS (AP)—Albert Pujols singled three times and walked twice, and Ryan Ludas homered as the St. Louis Cardinals beat the Seattle Mariners 9-3 on MondayThis is the roundup picked up by most non-local papers.
on the other hand, Ludwick’s mighty swing makes it on the SC montage.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and it stays with morning SC... with Shannon's call. sweet.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
you know you suck
when sportscenter knows more about midwest sports than you
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
ryan ludas?
that’s worse than ludwig.
badly enough, seeing the word “ludas” makes me think of ludacris.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 15, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
it would've made more sense to write Luda
at least then it would be an understandable typo
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
and we wonder why he's not in the allstar voting
people are looking for ryan ludas.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
by IHeartBoog on Jun 15, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think that article was written by Jar Jar Binks.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
F'in Jar Jar
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
At least it was Ryan Ludas and not Eric Ludas.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Ryan Rowland-Smith
In two starts since returning to the rotation, the Australian-born lefty has allowed 15 hits and nine runs (five earned) in 10 2/3 innings. He has 22 walks and 22 strikeouts in 51 2/3 innings. Lefty hitters are hitting .390, slugging .644 against him.
Might be OK to start Skip?
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
With Suppan starting for the Cardinals
will the score be 12-8
after the second inning?
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 15, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
i wish waino would have pitched at least the 8th last night.
our BP is taxed
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Yep. LA RUSSA taxed.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH……….
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard the rimshot from far away...
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
NO
start Lopez and Boog every day from now on. Maybe Skip gets one or two starts a week against righties.
If anything, it should be Tyler Greene backing up 2nd base…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Clearly, facing this Aussie with Suppan starting calls
for the vaunted Miles at third, Lopez at short, and Skip at second alignment.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Revelation 20:9
They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 15, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
damn, dude
god is violent. dude could have just made their hearts stop beating, but opted to burn them to death instead
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I guess they never watched Raiders of the Lost Ark
They should have seen it coming.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
He turned Lot's Wife into a pillar of salt for being tempted to look at a city that was basically exploding behind her
So yeah, he’s a meanie sometimes.
Maybe he just wasn't a big fan of
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
J.J. Abrams really goes to town in that keyboard solo.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
You can't ever accuse Abrams of not committing to overexuberrance
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Can we vote these jokes not funny anymore?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Jun 15, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Over-under on how many games
TLR keeps Holliday in the 2 hole? It should be 98 but I’ll throw out 10 as something more likely.
I think we've got a situation similar to when TLR flipped Pujols and Holliday.
It’ll be for a handful of games, I believe.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I don't mind it, really
although I do generally believe the best OBP guy should be hitting ahead of Pujols in the lineup, and I guess that’s Holliday.
FWIW I quite like Colby hitting 4 and Luddy 5 against RHP, just to break up the big righties a bit.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm all for Holliday in the second spot.
And then keeping some combination of Rasmus, Ludwick, and Friese hitting behind the two. I believe it was mentioned above, but I’d also like to see TLR bring back the pitcher batting eighth so long as we have this lineup. Here’s an interesting comparison.
Ludwick: .289 BA/ .356 OBP/ .515 SLG/ .870 OPS/ 11 HR/ .372 wOBA / $5.45MM salary
Holliday: .292 BA/ .370 OBP/ .445 SLG/ .815 OPS/ 6 HR/ .362 wOBA/ $17MM salary
This shows just how lucky we are that Jocketty signed Ludwick and that he has been healthy. Without him, Freese, and Rasmus, GOB only know where we’d be.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
who
is the best OPB guy? Changes from day to day, especially with their recent performance. Point is it depends on the matchups, and (to be generous) TLR trying to inspire (shake up) the troops.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jun 15, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Holliday is definitely a better OBP guy than Ludwick
I think Ludwick also projects for more power in the future. To me it’s a no-brainer to bat Luddy second.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 15, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
you mean cleanup, right?
The higher OBP, lower SLG guy needs to bat second; higher-power, lower-OBP guy needs to bat 4.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
well flipping AP and Holliday didnt make much difference IIRC
and TLR wants Pujols in the 3 spot. but this way, he still gets that. i bet he will keep it for more than a handful of games if they continue to produce the way they did last night.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Re: Tonight's gathering
Danup — do you have any additional details? Should we ask for a specific group when we get there? Is it going to be in a back room or something? I’m just trying to anticipate when I roll out of work irritable and want to drink, less thinking is better.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Just sidle up to the doorman ask to be shown to the Diogenes Club....
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
This may be the best comment of all time.
It made my morning.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'd be insulted if it was less applicable.
What’s good enough for a fictional Holmes is good enough for me, I suppose.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
I will be the guy wearing the pocket protector
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
be moar specific
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it'll be in the basement, of course
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 15, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't have any additional details, unfortunately.
I’ll forward this up the ladder and see what they know.
Great post, Dan.
That Mike Maroth write-up from the ’07 Baseball Prospectus made me laugh out loud when I read it for the first time.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Do I went to the game yesterday
Before it started, I thought, this is the best lineup we could possibly have (except switching freese and Raz vs righties). Our best 9 players, Hollitwohole and Cleanupwick. Throughout the game I was reassured of this. First two times through Holliday scored twice and Ludwick had 4 RBI’s. I just loved that lineup.
Also laughing at Colby being not smart (though really good at baseball) is always fun. Pregame warmups everyone was running into the dugouts and Colby was standing in the outfield, staring off into nothing, pretending to swing right-handed. They also did and interview with Colby on the videoboard, dumb, dumb, dumb. But I have a mancrush on you anyway Colby because you’re awesome and I love CFers for some reason. Smoooooth.
"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Jun 15, 2010 9:51 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
lolll
Pregame warmups everyone was running into the dugouts and Colby was standing in the outfield, staring off into nothing, pretending to swing right-handed.
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
The whole time thinking "Shoot-I-could-prolly-hit-righty-OK-man"
“Who-is-ding-dang-ole-Randy-Winn-anyway”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jun 15, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If we're doing King of the Hill comparisons...
and Colby is Boomhauer, then who are Hank and Dale? I say Albert and Boog, respectively.
The role of Bill Dauterieve will be played, of course, by Nick Stavinoha.
by dronemc on Jun 15, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Holliday is Bobbby.
The parallels are astounding. Both just want to be accpeted by a their peer groups, but keep getting in their own way (Bobby – goofiness, comedy focus, etc., Holliday – nut shot flyball, RISP fail, insufficient ‘grit’), both are sources of frustration to their superiors (Bobby endlessly flummoxes Hank, I’d swear I remember a Lugo-level death stare from Pujols after Holliday did something).
i contend that Ludwick still looks goofy
in RF, that is. he still has a lumbering stride and an awkward way of reaching for the ball.
If you recall last year, before the hamstring injury, he looked mobile.. he’s just healthy again.
he has a fairly comprehensive explanation of how he starts running
before the ball is even hit. he can be goofy all he wants if he’s gonna be wily.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
he's really really good in the outfield
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Can someone explain the Chris Lambert hatred to this non-prospect watcher?
Is there something there beyond just him being a prospect who didn’t pan out?
He's known for haunting Cardinals blogs and Danup from beyond the grave (or wherever it is that he lives.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/8/10/983658/todd-wellemeyer-or-chris-lambert
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I don't think he ever made an appearance
IIRC he was a minor league signee and got kinda rocked in Memphis, a-la Rich Hill. There were rumours of us signing up all sorts of ageing never-has-beens that year, in addition to the ones who actually did play.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
The Cardinals staff was collapsing
…and they needed someone to pitch, so they took a Minor League flyer on Okha to see if he could do anything. And he obviously couldn’t b/c he couldn’t even break into that miserable rotation.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Third Base Follies
I have to admit that it pains me to witness the simultaneous resurgence of Rolen and Glaus this season. Rolen has 14 HR with a .974 OPS. Glaus has 13 homeruns with a .886 OPS. With numbers like these, both gentlemen clearly are back into their own. Rolen, miraculously, finally has recovered his power stroke after a four year hiatus.
It’s enough to make me question all over again the sequence of events that led to the Cards’ decision to part ways with both players.
It’s hard not to view parting with Rolen as a mistake. Sure, the Cards did better in 2008 with Glaus than Rolen. 151 games for Glaus at a .856 OPS versus 115 for Scottie at .780 OPS. But Rolen would have cost about $1M less. The real difference, as it turns out, is that the Cards would have been much better with Rolen last year than with Glaus (by default since Glaus only played 14 games, and I don’t need to review the gory details of the Cardinals’ temporary solutions at 3B — Blech.) But if Rolen remains healthy this year, parting with him is going to have been a mistake. A mistake only in hindsight, perhaps, but still a mistake. It would have been a plausible baseball decision to stick with Rolen based upon belief in his talent and his defensive powers. It also was reasonably prudent to jettison him. It’s too bad, though, that personality conflicts prevailed. I admit that I had stopped believing in him at the time. Bad on me.
Query this: If we kept Rolen, would the Cards have grabbed Holliday last year?
Troy Glaus at $1.75M this year is a good deal for the Braves. It’s funny how we will take chance after chance for Miles and Supp, but we wouldn’t take a $2M bet on Glaus . . .
On the other hand, Glaus still is four times costlier than Freese, and Baseball Reference counts Freese as more valuable in WAR. I’ll be pretty gratified if Freese stays within 100 pts OPS of Glaus on the season. In any event, solid decision.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
Glaus doesn't even play 3B anymore
He plays 1B. Anyway the least of my concerns is 1B and 3B.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm still glad we got rid of both of them
granted i was never a big glaus fan, i still think it was smart for the cards to get rid of them.
how were we supposed to know glaus would return to old form? he only played a handful of games for us last year and struggled. seems like our guys coming off surgery do that for us these days.
as for rolen, who knew that too? as far as we were concerned, there was no way the shoulder would hold and there was no chance for a reunion as long as tlr was our manager.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 15, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that we are better off with Freese than Glaus
The Rolen thing hurts, though. I still think of him as a Cardinal, and I think the Cards would be formidable with him on the team. He would have been risky to keep, of course, but there was upside there too. It turns out , the down side to keeping Rolen wasn’t that great — we wouldn’t have saved any money and didn’t receive better performance over all) — and there still appears to be substantial upside to be had.
Also, I hate that he’s a Red.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Jun 15, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
There's also an argument we did better with one healthy year of glaus than we'd have got out of two semi-healthy years of Rolen
although admittedly this year’s performance puts the one year of glaus in the shade…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
You are forgetting about the falling out between Rolen and TLR.
Remember that they were not even on speaking terms and that TLR basically came out and said that the Cards would trade him, painting Mo into a corner. Given these circumstances, Mo did well to get Glaus in return and I believe made the right decision to let the oft-injured Glaus leave at season’s end. Glaus apparently cannot play third base defensively any longer and we have no need for him at first base.
Right now, I am happy that Rolen is doing well, even if he is producing for the first place Reds of the NL Central. He was a great player for us and I wish his time here had ended in better circumstances, but that doesn’t change the fact that TLR and Rolen’s tiff essentially forced Rolen out of St. Louis.
I’m very much looking forward to the Freese era and feel that we are better moving forward with Freese at the hot corner than either of resurgent veteran stars.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'd have liked to have kept Glaus as a pinch-hitter/bench corner guy for $1m
but realistically he wasn’t likely to play 3B for us this year.
Rolen fell out with LaRussa so it was either him or the manager. TBH, I think I’m happy with Freese going forward. I still think Rolen’s a big injury risk and Freese hasn’t actually been THAT much worse so far (1.7 WAR to 2.3 WAR. Glaus is at 1.3 WAR so freese has actually been better).
Also, Freese is dirt cheap and Rolen’s still earning $18m over this year and next (if I understand his contract restructuring correctly).
With Rolen, we might not’ve traded for Holliday, which is a fair point you made, but I’m not sure that’s a good thing necessarily.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
with the personality clash with TLR, it’s likely Rolen wouldn’t have signed an extension with us if we’d kept him, and wouldn’t have restructured his deal, so we’d still be on the hook for $11m this year and no chance of keeping him next year if he has a good season.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
we wouldn't have holliday if we'd kept rolen, most likely
holliday is considerably younger and has been remarkably healthy throughout his career. even discounting the TLR issue, i’d rather have freese and holliday than rolen and someone else.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Realistically who else is there?
I was not a fan of the Suppan signing but I am starting to come to the conclusion their is not a lot of other options. Any other free agent signing will take time to get ready to pitch. Our minor league system is being shown how thin it is. I have never been that high on Ottavino. PJ Walters seems to be a very much a AAAA pitcher. Hawksworth doesn’t really any deserve to be on this team but their is worst players on the team so he stays.
The only option I see is shift McCellean or Boggs to the rotation than promote Salas to plug in. But I don’t see TLR/Dunc wanting to break up the band to plug a hole.
P.S
You guys do know Suppan will give us a quality start tonight? It just seems fated and we forced to keep our mouth shut.
We could trade for someone
but yeah, I kinda agree, there’s nothing else out there that we can plug in right now. The only possible option is evan maclane – put up a 4.50 FIP with great control in AAA last year, and his performance this year has actually been better. He’s a soft tossing 28-year-old lefty with extremely marginal major league stuff but I wonder if maybe he couldn’t do a job. He’s walking only one batter per 9 innings in his AAA stint with the Cards.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
what about if that job is cleaning michael j fox's penis?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe MacLane would work
if he were pitching AGAINST the Cardinals every start. For them is a different issue.
I'm guessing something like 5 IP 1 ER with a bunch of pitches thrown
He gets lucky to get out of a bunch of jams
by jd is legend on Jun 15, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going 5.1, 4ER
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
YES! You win....
an awkward silence.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 5:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Suppan is probably a better rotation option than McClellan
I don’t think a McClellan averaging 89-90 mph and not 91-92 would be very pretty.
Not afraid to nitpick
i don't think KMac getting more innings is a good idea
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Jun 15, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
no matter what he's throwing
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Jun 15, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
when was the last time sup' started?
i don’t think he’s exactly stretched out. not that i’m disagreeing with your “there ain’t be shit else” premise
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
soup & the backup catcher
usually soup uses the backup catcher, which back in the day was gary bennett. is larue going to start tonight, you think?
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
illustration
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Please yes
reset the rotation and one less soup start.
If every Suppan/Ottavino game could be washed out until Penny’s back that would be ideal :-)
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Whoa, careful what you ask for
If the game is rained out I suspect it would be made up on Thursday which would then mean that we have to play 6 games in a row and you would have a Suppan start plus an Ottavino/Walters/Macclane/Hawksworth start.
It is much better for us to the play game tonight and have the day off on Thursday.
Carp, Garcia and Wain
and pray for rain, huh?
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 15, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
or as someone else put it
Waino and Carp and pray for the tarp.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
not the tarp!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Carpcia and Wain
And pray for ….OMIGOD IT’S JEFF SUPPAN!
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
by TBender on Jun 15, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jeff Suppan?
Get the poo pan!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The Cardinals just signed Jeff Suppan
A good pitcher for me to poop on!
Can you get the dog in your avatar to smoke a cigar?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I do hope he succeeds though
Like many I have accepted that it’s not a horrible move in light of our other options. Starting off against the light-hitting Mariners is good for him too.
I just hope they are ready to cut him quick if it doesn’t work out. I don’t want to see 10 horrible starts because they think he’s “turned a corner” and “is close to working out the flaw in his” blah blah blah.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
you're just saying that because you don't have a ticket to his start.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Thank goodness!
That bullet home run that Ichiro hit was cool and all, but I was kinda worried I had accidentally shifted some bad mojo to Wainwright in the first inning. But then RFL and all.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Starting off against the light-hitting Mariners could be a curse in disguise
If he has a good start against a shitty team, he’ll get an extended leash, regardless of if he gets pounded in his next 5 starts
by jd is legend on Jun 15, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I just meant it could mean better result this one time
I totally agree that it could also provide the illusion of effectiveness too, which would suck.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The Cardinals should install sprinklers on the roof of the stadium
That they can turn on when it’s Suppan’s start to simulate rain.
OH LAWD IT’S RAINING BUT THERE AIN’T NO CLOUDS
But I am so looking forward to watching
Jeff Suppan’s triumphant return to Busch.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
is it gonna damn rain
on one of the few days that i’m not at work throughout the entirety of the game?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I just looked...it's raining here right now,
but should be blown over by game time.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
as long as
it’s not raining by about 8pm when i get home from class
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
was pouring in edwardsville for a couple of hours
now we’re on a tornado warning
did it clear up in stl?
it'll clear out
question is, there’s another line of storms developing out here on the West Coast of Missouri. Not sure if that can make it to STL by game time though.
Chipper Jones' injuries have piled up and his production has been down.
Apparently he will retire at the end of the season.
17 seasons, 1 MVP, 6 time All-Star, 3 7+ WAR years, 11 seasons in the playoffs, 1 WS champ
Career .306 / .406 / .536
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jun 15, 2010 11:48 AM EDT reply actions
Happy to say
I have his rookie and his draft card
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Surprised at that
the Braves look to be contenders again. FWIW he seems to be working a lot of walks at the moment even though his power seems to have fallen away. I think he’s still a decent 3B.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Chipper has had various nagging injuries this year.
He’s been spelled by Omar Infante, who has done a pretty nice job.
More than anything, I think Chipper is frustrated that he can’t stay healthy.
I'm out of champagna. How about some 7-Up and Mad Dog 20/20?
by The Continental on Jun 15, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It's understandable
and it is kinda nice seeing a guy retiring when he thinks he’s not the player he once was, rather than plugging along for 3 or 4 unproductive years at the end of his career chasing counting stats and hurting his team (though I don’t think Chipper is anywhere near that yet, even with a very unlucky hitting year he was on course to be about average). It was good to see Griffey calling it a day, too.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd play until I couldn't play anymore
or find a manager who admires my grit and eek out a couple more years hustling to first on soft groundballs. Rickey Henderson was my hero. After he left the majors he played in the minors for a while. Loved the game.
Just win
aaron miles?
"He’s in his own world out there. He says he doesn’t cuss. I disagree." - Skip Schumaker on Jason Motte
Austin Wilson, please don't be a tease!
Doesn't surprise me
With Bobby Cox retiring as well after this year this doesn’t come as a surprise at all.
by WizardofOz1982 on Jun 15, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
That's disappointing too
if this year’s draft taught us anything, it’s that we all, collectively, are crazy about Cox.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
well, you know what they say about a good Cox....
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 15, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It is pretty awesome to see
A player stay with one team his whole career and one manager the entire time also
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
both hall of famers, too...
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Sports Illustrated or someone like that
had an article last year, I think, on Jones’ post-game regiment, how he’s so sore and his knees etc, are messed up and painful. His wife has to drive him home after all home games.
You have to really love playing to deal with crap like that.
oh no question
we were talking the other day about 3bs, and I suggested he might be the second best in history. I think fourstick convinced me that Mathews is better (and Schmidt, obviously) but I think you can make a very good argument for Chipper at #3.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
ehh, there's someone else we're both forgetting
oh yeah george brett.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
so.
I know we all hate Aaron Miles and are actively rooting against him. but I have to say, I’m going to be pulling hard for Suppan tonight… I totally disagree with the signing and think it was an utter mistake, but I’m looking forward to him proving me wrong. honestly, if he can give us ~100 innings with a 5 ERA the rest of the year, I’d be very happy with that. not that I see that happening, but it’d be great.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
yeah, me too
I don’t mind it as much as the Miles signing either, because realistically the cupboard is completely F’ing bare. I’d rather give one of our internal options a chance instead of a mid-30s retread (especially if there’s any chance, say, Walters may be our #6 or even #5 next year) but realistically MacLane, Walters and Hawksworth don’t especially profile to be any better than Soup (although ZiPS projects PJ as slightly better the rest of the way, whatever that may mean).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
i may be more irritated if the legend grows about the "oh yeah? St. Louis only needs one bullpen session to completely fix your wretched pitchers"
though in years to come, I will recount it as the centerpiece of the pixie dust.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i guess this is the possible downside
but at the same time, it’d cement Dave Duncan’s status as the second most important person on this team to me if he manages to pull this one off.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Jun 15, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
it was downright spooky, that first interview back — complete with shot of bullpen in afternoon sun
it was like Groundhog Day
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Hear, hear.
The team tried the young guys first before seeking outside help, so I’m begrudgingly accepting of the Suppan signing. While Miles can easily be replaced by a better minor leaguer.
Regression, bitches.
Miles can easily be replaced by the Brave Little Toaster.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
CD trauma. unavailable.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
By stupidity to competence
Miles
Stavinoha
Not picking up Chad Gaudin
Suppan/Winn
Allen Craig off the roster
Hawksworth
Mather on the roster
The Holliday contract
The Rich Hill contract
Allen Craig on the roster
Brad Penny signing
Felipe Lopez signing
Jaime Garcia on the roster
On the spectrum of roster decisions, Suppan was not the worst and I rank him with Winn because he is doing the job of a guy who is younger and already in the system, but he is doing that job hopefully with a bit more steadiness than that rookie would be. I liked PJ, and I wanted him in the rotation, but I will root for Suppan in the same way I rooted for PJ Walters, and I expect similar results from him.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
you put the Holliday contract as less competent than the Rich Hill contract?
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Jun 15, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hill wasn't a bad flier to take
guy had been productive once upon a time and cost a big fat nothing. Also, he hasn’t been on the major league roster, so it was all upside.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm not hating on the Rich Hill contract.
i just don’t understand all the animosity toward Holliday’s contract either. but not worth arguing about.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Jun 15, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
true
I dunno how I’d rate them, side-by-side. Best I can say is Hill is a neutral move, really, at worst. Suppose it depends on how Holliday ends up working out, but I think most people seem to think we’ve paid around market value for him so maybe that’s about neutral too.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
It really all depends on how you value certainty.
The Holliday contract was a market-value deal for a known asset at a position that we didn’t have much in the way of certain minor league talent at (Craig or Stav was our projected starter).
The Rich Hill contract was a free pickup of an injured pitcher who eventually failed to do anything and is on the verge of being cut by our MiLB team. I just like this move as a show that our GM is doing his job- attempting to find undervalued assets to keep this team winning.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I wish I could buy
that Holliday is either a known asset or was signed to a market-value deal. I remember reading and hearing a lot of comments from both baseball people and media types that the Cardinals overpaid both in terms of AAV and years. I hope he is in fact a known asset, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he never posted an OPS of .900 or better as a Cardinal.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
Blah
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/12/17/1202544/worth-the-money
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
So you think
that a comparison of projections of Johnny Damon, Jason Bay, and Matt Holliday that admits most of Holliday’s value is due to defense and suggests he has a 30-50% chance of achieving surplus value if signed to a 5 year $80M contract means what exactly?
Of course I would rather have Holliday for 5/$80M than Bay for 4/$60M or Damon for 3/$39M. That doesn’t mean that it is any kind of certainty that Holliday will perform at projected levels or that his actual contract was a market value contract.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
It helps if you read the study-
the conclusion is that we will derive surplus value 50% of the time on his current deal. That means he falls short 50% of the time, meaning he is being paid what he is worth.
Market value.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Not necessarily
the deviation of his possible production won’t be a normal distribution. I would imagine the 50% on the “not surplus value side” will be skewed towards the low end, as presumably there’s a non-zero chance he totally falls off a cliff at 33 and becomes a Carlos Lee/Vernon Wells-esque albatross, whereas if he provides surplus value, it’s likely to not be that huge (I doubt he’s realistically got any chance to continue being a 5 or 6 WAR player into his mid-late 30s), so on the “surplus value” side it might be skewed a bit towards the low end as well.
For what it’s worth, having watched Holliday now for the best part of a year, I’m slightly concerned about his swing and body type. I realise his numbers and his offensive skill set are (statistically) the sort that age pretty well, but I’m (from an entirely subjective viewpoint) concerned that he might really fall off a cliff sooner rather than later. Again, I really can’t quantify that, but it does worry me – I guess the best explanation I can make is that his swing looks funky and based more on timing and coordination than actually being a naturally good swing, and his lack of power in the air is a concern too. I wonder if the slight reduction in coordination that most athletes experience in their 30s will hurt him badly.
Time will tell, and obviously I realise that I may be mentally biasing against Holliday because of his mediocre start to the year (although in a way that’s perhaps not that ridiculous, as I reckon he probably needs a couple of 6 WAR years at the start of the deal to have any chance of posting surplus value) but I worry somewhat about the deal we signed him to.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 5:55 AM EDT up reply actions
The average aging curve
isn’t shaped like a cliff. I think you’re premise on the shape of the distribution should err toward a normal distribution with a gradual decline (that’s why Tango/MGL use .5 WAR per season for aging) than a significant drop off.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Agreed
not sure that’s 100% applicable to this problem, though – we’re plotting probability on the y axis and number of WAR/on-field value (however you wish to measure it) on the x-axis, then drawing a vertical line up from the x-axis to represent the amount of cash we’re paying Holliday.
The contract already presupposes Holliday will be worth a set number of wins over the 7 years (say, for argument’s sake, not necessarily accuracy, 30 wins). If we apply the MEAN ageing curve (what you’re talking about) to Holliday, there’s a 50% chance he achieves this number of wins (well and good). That means, obviously, 50% of the time he’ll exceed it, 50% of the time he’ll fall short.
I would contend that there’s more chance of him being a significant outlier on the falling short side; there’s essentially zero chance he’ll put up a hypothetical 60 wins over this period, unless he’s some sort of Terminator sent back from the future, but there’s a non-zero chance he’s somewhere close to zero wins (say, he has a Frank-Thomas-esque 5 year run of injuries and ineffectiveness).
What I’m saying is that I think the 50% of times he EXCEEDS the value of the contract, he’ll do it by a relatively small amount, whereas the 50% of times he FALLS SHORT of the value of the contract, a significant percentage of this time he will fall short badly (due to injuries, most likely). The overall value lost or gained in deviation from the 50th percentile may be more or less the same, but I’m inferring significant risk on the low side, with less upside on the gain side.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, a related point
re: ageing, as Steve Sommer notes in the post above, a significant portion of Holliday’s value comes from his defence (at least in comparison to his LF counterparts) and I’m sure I’ve seen both empirical and statistical evidence to suggest that that IS a skill that is more prone to steep decline than most others. Our lack of any position (no DH, 1B already full) on the defensive spectrum that Holliday could move left into may exacerbate this problem. Again, there seems to me to be quite a lot of risk at play in this Holliday deal.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
While it's often assumed that speed/defense decline more precipitously than hitting,
I haven’t seen a study that links them convincingly. Instead, the hardest falls are, as you’ve probably heard, the falls of players with “old player skills” like Richie Sexson or Andruw Jones.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I think you're being overly pessimistic.
If he were a pitcher, then yes I’d say the possibility of catastrophic injury is always looming, but hitters generally succumb over time to nagging knee and back problems rather than instantly dropping from star to sucker because of a shoulder injury. Even Scott Rolen, a guy who was great, then actually had the worst shoulder injury you can have at one of the worst positions to have it eventually recovered to be very good in his later years.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Sir, you give me heart!
This deal is a triumph, I say, a triumph of the modern sporting age! And I shall proclaim its exquisite merits from the very rooftops!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I rated it as one of Mo's worst moves on my list above.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Well now, sir, you leave me in a quandary.
How can it be thing when tis another? Truly, a rum conundrum indeed…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you are right to be concerned
about his swing. Big Mac was correct to try to change him as he has so much unnecessary movement, especially of his head, that he will have difficulty squaring and driving the ball consistently. He and Rasmus both have pronounced leg kicks, but Colby doesn’t have all the extra movement and keeps his head very still. It’s no surprise that he drives the ball much better – especially now that he can see.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
i thought monk's point about holliday's hitting prowess
being dependent on his strength, athleticism, and coordination a very excellent one. it’s sort of like the big kid who matures before the other kids and is destroying little league, but as the other kids catch up physically and talent and skill come into play, the big kid slips way down the totem pole. of course in this case it wouldn’t be the rest of the league catching up but rather holliday slipping back as he ages and loses some of that coordination, reflex, etc.
a guy with an A+ stroke like pujols would decline at the plate at a lesser rate than holliday even if they age physically at the same “rate”, imo. for example, pujols’ offense could decline like ted williams’, as both were built on fundamentally sound strokes, whereas a guy like holliday brings to mind more someone like vlad guerrero – perhaps a poor example to make my point since vlad had some injuries that factored in and is having a resurgent year in texas, but maybe you get what i’m saying. i loved watching vlad hit, but it wasn’t because he had a pretty stroke.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think it's safe to say that the Cardinals are not idiots
And they wouldn’t have given Holliday a 120 million dollar contract if they didn’t have some reason to think that he would have a decent shot of being worth it.
While Holliday’s stroke may be awkward looking, his eye is very good, he has good contact skills for a guy with such a big swing and his body looks like it will age very well.
Based on past stats and doing a WAR/$ analysis, this deal looked to be about market value. I suppose you could argue that the Cardinals are overpaying because Holliday won’t age very well, but I think we should probably given them the benefit of the doubt on that one.
And before you say it, 2 months of underperforming his contact does not mean the contract will end up bad. Player evaluations aren’t so fickle as to be influenced heavily by two months worht of play.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 16, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
no, two months mean nothing, i agree
it’s the seven years that concern me. he could be raking right now and i would still be opposed to the contract. i just never thought it was a good idea, and would have probably given craig a shot in left and kept the flexibility to acquire someone before the trade deadline or a free-agent or two in the upcoming off-season, depending on how things shook out. it’s just an opinion, like everyone else’s.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He's not really underperforming his contract, either, by WAR
he’s on pace for a 5 win season IIRC and if you go by the (in my opinion, utterly spurious and unscientific) “-0.5 WAR/yr” Tango rule-of-thumb, he’ll be just about worth the deal, I think.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 17, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not exactly difficult to throw money at things.
See also: The Cubs.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Also: The Mets.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Gaudin is starting to look like a bad miss
I really wish we’d got contreras over the winter, too, but that probably means no Garcia until Lohse got hurt so maybe a double-edged sword.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
and sorry... i don't get this one either
Chad has an ERA over EIGHT this year and absolutely nothing to show that he can be a productive pitcher.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Jun 15, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He's been average in the past
and is sporting a ludicrously unlucky HR rate (fuelled by a HR/FB of over 20%!) and a BABIP of over .400. His flyball rate is slightly up, to be fair, but he hasn’t lost any velocity, is striking out more and walking fewer than he did last year, his swinging strike and first strike percentages are higher than his career rates, and his contact% is lower than his career. He’s just had a really unlucky 26 innings, I’d say, although maybe those who’ve seen him actually pitch might be able to detect something he’s doing wrong. Whatever, it’s likely fixable.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree
however, i don’t see how this makes him a bad miss, or where he’d really fit in for us… i don’t see how Suppan’s any worse of a gamble than he would be.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Jun 15, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Suppan's not been replacement level for like 3 years
Gaudin was average last year. I think his peripherals in recent seasons have been far better. And he has good stuff – he’s striking out a batter per inning, Suppan is striking out a batter per aeon.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
again, fair point taken
i just don’t see how you consider him a “bad miss” when he’s looked as terrible as he has so far this year.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Jun 15, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, probably bad writing on my part
I just meant that a guy who can possibly be an average starter is suddenly exactly what we desperately need. At the time he was cut by the Yanks you could argue our need was less pressing. I guess that’s kinda what I meant. If we had a do-over, I bet we’d have given him a spin ahead of Suppan.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Will someone please explain to me how Winn is a bad move?
He’s a right handed Jon Jay to spell our lefthanded CFer.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 15, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's a lateral move.
A Holliday/Ludwick/Craig OF vs lefties is going to be as productive as a Holliday/Winn/Ludwick OF
In the same way, Jeff Suppan=PJ Walters
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Not really
Winn is a better OFer right now than Craig. He’s a +5-10 defender if not better and while a rest of season ZiPS .308 wOBA isn’t pretty, it’s not like Craig is projected to obliterate (his MLE is .280/.322/.401 right now) while being what I would imagine is at best -5 in the field.
Even if you do assume it’s a neutral move, you’d still rather do it. Craig getting regular ABs in AAA > getting 21 PAs a month right now.
Not afraid to nitpick
Considering Craig's MLE was better than Freese's coming into the season,
his hitting could easily be above average, making him even more valuable than Winn and allowing us to boot Stavinoha off of the roster. Winn allows us to keep Craig in the minors, yes, but that isn’t just extra ABs for Craig- it’s an opportunity cost for the team.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
C'mon
Because one player is better than his MLE that breaks the system? He could easily be worse than his MLE too.
Craig should easily be on the roster over Stav no one is debating that, but Randy Winn just wasn’t a bad move. He’s projected better than Craig right now and costs nothing—-we’re talking the bench here, it’s practically irrelevant anyway AND it seems like a positive move.
Not afraid to nitpick
I have not heard to much complaint about Winn
He is a 4th OFer that can play plus D. My problem is Stav over Craig/Jay/Mather
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed, it does not break the system.
I said it was a lateral move. Lateral. As in, moving neither up, nor down, neither forward nor backward, but to the side. Between positions of equal blah. did you note the position of the Winn move on my list?
Craig has higher upside- I don’t think you’re debating that with me, but I don’t think you’re hearing my point either. The Winn move didn’t make our team worse, but it doesn’t make us better either, because while Winn does some things well and isn’t a replacement level veteran nothing like Miles, the guy he is keeping off of the roster can be of similar value doing similar things.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
he could be making the team better in the future
by allowing craig to play every day rather than sit on the bench where tony rarely plays him
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Let me put it another way:
The improvement about which you are talking is so debatable and so small that it can scarcely be said to exist. The improvement from, say, Jeff Suppan to Chad Gaudin, for instance, is somewhere in the region of 1 WAR.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Ummm, exactly?
That makes it much more competent than signing Suppan, it’s clearly more competent than having Joe Mather on the roster coming off of wrist surgery and obviously not being ready and more than Hawksworth’s continued badness on the roster.
Not afraid to nitpick
not this year.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
I'm rooting for Miles to succeed
It’ would be great if he could hit 300 and and have an OBP of 400 while collecting 70ish ABs or less.
But I sure wont be upset if they DFA’d him and brought up some younger, better skilled players.
yeah
It’ would be great if he could hit 300 and and have an OBP of 400
i’d say so
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Because yeah
Miles can achieve Pujols slash line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
I think the chances of Miles
achieving that slash line and having TLR limit him to 70ish ABs are nil. I don’t have anything personal against Miles but I hope he fails just so we don’t have to worry about TLR ODing on his grit fetish.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
I'm also a bit concerned about the very positive comments from TLR on Suppan's last start
true, it wasn’t a disaster, but the guy only lasted 4 innings, walked two guys, and gave up a pretty hard home run. I can’t imagine there’d have been so much positivity over a similar PJ Walters start, somehow…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 5:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder what kind of wOBA that would be
A .400 OBP is pretty good no matter how you slice it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The only Udder guys who comes close...
…was Bob Horner, ’cause he reminded me so much of Mitchell:
http://www.badmovies.org/othermovies/mitchell/
But even he doesn’t cowpare to the hated and despised JASON MARQUIS!!!
:=8P
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Giants fans dressed up as lobsters. did they know?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Better than the Mariners' Cheezburger Night
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
they can has??
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
why didn't they raise one paw?
they could’ve had a whole other meme, culture, and draw, all-in-one.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that is Prince Fielder in cat form
but they’re not playing the Brewers. Weird.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
How many were left over?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 15, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure... I never got one
I need to track one down
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
With about a month and half left till July 31st
Who do you guys think the Cardinals might go after in a trade? Dan Uggla?
P.S
It looks like the A’s just traded for Conor Jackson.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
by zoomzoomj88 on Jun 15, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
god i hope not
you think Sch is bad defensively..
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Jun 15, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
i disagree, and UZR is inconclusive.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
"inconclusive" is a bit of a stretch
Uggla is -3.4 UZR/150 over ~6000 innings at 2B; Skip is -10.4 UZR/150 over ~1500.
While it’s still technically true that Skip MIGHT be as “good” as Uggla, and just looks worse on paper due to measurement error- and of course, Skip might improve with experience- it’s extremely unlikely.
I’m not quite sure how to do the math to determine HOW unlikely- seems like a good homework project for someone.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
~1500 innings of UZR is basically nothing
6000 innings is a pretty good sample size, and I trust that mark for Uggla, but 1500 innings is going to have huge standard errors just based on measurement error. It’s not even a full season’s worth.
I think Uggla is probably better than Skip.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 15, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The trend
certainly doesn’t favor Skip. You could have argued that he was averagish in the second half of last year, but he has been miserable thus far this year. He is never going to get a good jump on the ball or cover a lot of ground, but he has fanned on a bunch of routine plays this year.
Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.
I think with Skip you kinda have to trust your eyes
and to me he just doesn’t get to any ball that’s more than about two steps from his starting position. I actually think with his arm he’d be better off at 3B (not that we have an opening).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Skip is pretty terrible at 2B IMO
I can’t imagine there are many starting second basemen in MLB worse. Other than that ASG nightmare the other year, every time I’ve seen Uggla he seems competent. Of course, I think he probably has similarly crappy range, but I don’t think he’s worse than Skip.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 5:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure what he would add really
Would they trade both Lopez and Schu or something? Seems like he’d be wasted on the bench. Maybe trade Schu, let Uggla take over at 2nd, have Lopez be super sub and still get plenty of PA.
I’d much rather they trade for a pitcher of some kind, and I think that’s what they will be looking for as our back end starter and bullpen plots continue to thicken.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
why would they trade for uggla when schu is locked up for another year?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Uggla is probably worth a minimum of 2 WAR over Skip the rest of the season
based on historical performance, maybe as many as 5, if they continue their current paces (skip’s been a half win BELOW replacement level, so far- Uggla’s on pace for a 6 WAR season).
That’s a lot of net benefit.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
that was my thought also
Skip has been the worst player on our team this year
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I had no idea what an upgrade Uggla would be until I checked fangraphs.
So I might have to take back some of my comment above. Still, I would be surprised to see Skip trades.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
uggla is a no-no
i could see them trying to trade for a utility guy or a SS, maybe.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
barring injury
I think they stand pat, or they make Randy Winn-size moves at the margins. Hopefully they fucking DFA Miles by the ASB.
This team is good, everybody knows it. Getting one of Penny or Lohse back would make everybody relax a little, I think.
really? why?
doesn’t he suck?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
he most certainly did last year
but Fangraphs says he is having an excellent year this year. This very well could be a run of excellent fortune but he throws 96, has a K/9 of 9.5, GB% of 48.5% and a not too unreasonable .284 BABIP. Is there something you know of that says he will not continue to perform like this? I just thought he might be too expensive for us if he really is a good as he has pitched this year.
"I told you, I don't like to be manhandled!"
no, going on 2009. i didn't know he was good now.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
So how bout that offense?
Great game last night, Adam settled down nicely after the first, and the team really looked like they remembered how to hit. There was a single solitary boo when Aaron Miles was announced. Oh…and no wave.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
could have been.
I then explained to the group around me that I was booing him, just the decision, and that he had no business being on this team ahead of Greene Tea.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Then you slurred
“What?! I don’t have to answer to you assholes! I paid for this seat, dammit, I can boo if I want! You know what, fuck you! Fuck all of you!”
It was an ugly scene that ended in a taser and tears
by jd is legend on Jun 15, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice
sentiment. Hope that the asshittery continues. Maybe see you in July. Afghanistan in the offing.
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jun 15, 2010 1:29 PM EDT reply actions
reply
fail=too much amber nextar?
by kkkkathmandubirdsview on Jun 15, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions
Lookout Landing
doesn’t like Jose Lopez either
It also appears Jose attempted to kill Albert.
Fuck you Jose. Just because he hits real home runs doesn’t mean you can get all pissy. Little bitch.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don’t get sucked into jet engines
by the other side on Jun 15, 2010 12:57 AM PDT reply actions
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I like the Cardinals team that played last night, A LOT
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 2:05 PM EDT reply actions
Goold was on Bernie's show on 101.1
They were talking about Duncan helping Suppan. They said they were helping with with his release points. So something to look at is release points this year vs previous years and release point tonight vs earlier in the year
I said it in yesterdays thread,
but thanks for the coupon code.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
gold star for you!
heh heh heh
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
50 off tickets...
Just got 2 infield box for tomorrow for 75.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
they need to say something to make the signing look better
because stat-wise, it just didn’t make sense. it does sound encouraging though
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry if these are big
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
no data, dude
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? They show up fine on mine
But basically, I just went to Texas Leaguers and compared his release point from 2009-2010 to 2007-2008
In 2007-2008, his release point was a few more inches towards the 3rd base side, but they were much more variable than they were last year
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I've decided the best use for my old myspace account is to upload pics I want to link to
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I find it easier to do it my way
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha
i believe you kids would say, “epic fail”.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Why are you so hurtful?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
daddy used to lock me under the stairs.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Our long Wisconsin-wide nightmare is over.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I was hoping for one last hurrah
I can still see LaRussa giving him a call if Suppan doesn’t work out
I am pleasantly pleased, thankyouverymuch
MLB HOF store is running a sale
70% off some merchandise plus another 20% off with code BACBASEBALL
example
does anyone have a better outfield than the cards?
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 2:59 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe Dodgers...
Also…
Gutierrez-Ichiro-Bradley
Crawford-Zobrist-Upton
Wells-Bautista-?
Braun-Hart-Edmonds
Byrd-Soriano-Fuku
DFA Miles, Call up Cox
How are any of those better than the Cards' outfield?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Rays/Cards
By wOBA:
Crawford: .364
Upton: .346
Zobrist: .363
Holliday: .362
Rasmus: .412
Ludwick: .376
Gotta take defense into consideration, obviously, but there’s a strong argument to be made that the Cards outfield has been better this year.
go figure
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
By WAR,
Rays- 6.4
Cards- 6.3
Tigers(!?)- 5.8
Cubs- 5.8
Cards rank second. The top two outfields have each contributed more WAR (6.3+) than the entire position playing corp of any of the following teams: Royals (6.3), Dodgers (5.9), Rockies, Angels, Astros, White Sox, Mariners, Indians, Orioles, and Pirates.
The Mariners fell off because Bradley is playing terribly. Wells-Bautista-? indeed. The Brewers just aren’t that good except Braun who is awful at defense.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Better going forward...
you have to add the Dodgers to the mix, unless you think Kemp’s fielding is really that bad.
DFA Miles, Call up Cox
He sucks in innings 1-8.
Baseball games are 9 innings long, Andre!
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
yeah...
but Ethier and Ramirez are world-class butchers in the field, and if Kemp doesn’t care, then they have a defensive problem.
DFA Miles, Call up Cox
with his offensive performance this year,
Ethier has to be in the running for a gold glove, no?
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
by Toppins on Jun 15, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ethier is a great hitter, but his defensive talent is probably something like -5.
Ramirez is in his late thirties and presumably no longer on the juice. Kemp is very good and this year so far is probably just a blip, but all three of our outfielders are above average to very good on offense and defense.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
you're pretty much insane guayzimi
although, that keeps things interesting I guess.
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
If I had to bet the house on WAR standings for the second half...
I’d say:
Dodgers
Rays
Cardinals
Mariners
DFA Miles, Call up Cox
I still can't believe you said the Mariners, Cubs and Jays have better outfields
lol :)
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
why do you value the Dodgers outfield so highly?
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I just meant they'd be in the conversation based on what they've done...
as for the Dodgers, I think Kemp is decent in center and that Ramirez isn’t quite washed up. They might be equal to the Cards.
DFA Miles, Call up Cox
But our OF is really good!
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
if you think about how far above average our outfield is on defense
I mean, Holliday is not a bad defender, and Ludwick is one of the best defensive right fielders right now, and of course Rasmus is one of the best defensive center fielders. both Rasmus and Ludwick are at least .850 OPS guys imo, and once Holliday starts slugging at a higher rate, our outfield is pretty intense.
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
was wondering the same thing.
isn’t he playing at a level that we all expected he would?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
No
I think Colby is playing over his head right now. He is currently batting like a Top 10 player in baseball.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, high BABIP, high HR/FB% so far this season
So he’s been a bit lucky. That’s not to say he’s still not a fantastic player, though
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
isn't his K rate elevated too?
seems if he starts regressing, he’s not going to be striking out so much as well.
I mean, maybe he’s not going to put up a .950ish OPS all year, but still. If he can keep up an .850 or so he’s still an asset, considering the defense….
even though he has a high K rate
He also has a very high walk rate.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
no
but similar hitters with similar power have <20% HR/FB rates. I think it’s possible he keeps that up and that he has prodigious power (he really does have effortless pop) but even 40 HR guys like Beltran only have 15% rates. He’s in the Dunn/Pujols area now.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean, his HRs are often 20 rows deep
not just sneaking over the wall.
What was the site for average HR distances?
yeah, you really have to dig a little deeper
Like one of his JE(just enough) HR’s was a 419ft shot to middle of center field.
It is at HitTracker
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean really, simple eye test is Rasmus doesn't look like he's getting lucky
he may still K a lot, but he’s gotten good pitch recognition and the ball jumps off his bat.
Holliday is better than Manny by a longshot these days
Rasmus has played much bettter than Kemp this year, and is a much better defender going forward. And for Ethier’s great season, the difference in defensive ability between him and Ludwick makes them close to even as players.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 15, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I'm still not sure what you love about the Dodgers OF so much
Ethier is not going to end the year OPS’ing over 1.000, probably closer to .950, so I’m not sure why they look better in the 2nd half. Ethier will slump, Kemp will get hot and then slump again, and by the end of the year they will be a poor defensive OF that hits a lot of homeruns, good for 5th or 6th in the MLB in WAR.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
Their OF might be in the top 10.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I honestly didn't know Ethier's defense was so bad
I didn’t really know anything about his defense.
Also, I wasn’t sure if Chitown meant “best performance so far for the year” or “most well-built OF in terms of talent/potential”
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I'd bet something like,
Mariners, Pirates, Cardinals, Rays, Rangers
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Assuming they play something like:
LF- Tabata CF- McC RF- Jones
I’ll take that OF over the Dodgy one any day.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
are you serious?
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
Assuming that Alvarez develops.
I would too.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Hell yes!
Those three are all cost-controlled, all of them are valuable on offense and defense, meanwhile the Dodger OF is expensive, aging, and less talented.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I think the Dodgers one is better.
Obviously, in terms of value, Pittsburgh wins, but I think overall it’s hard to argue that, right now, those three guys are better than the Dodgers OF. Kemp is a legit 5 WAR guy, and Manny and Ethier are both above average, maybe 3 WAR types. I’m not sure Tabata will come straight up and be more than average, and I think McCutcheon’s a stretch for 5 WAR, likewise Jones for 3.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions
your mom's not that good.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I can see your argument,
Kemp is, perhaps, a 4 WAR talent. Manny is above average but he’s nearly 40, and Ethier is a great hitter but a butcher in the field.
Jones is basically an average player, and McCutcheon is probably a 4 WAR player. Jose Tabata isn’t better than Andre Ethier right now, but he is a good defender and if he is an average hitter he is a 3 WAR player, making the Pirates OF around as valuable as the Dodgers, in addition to being around 30 years younger.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Having re-examined the Dodgers guys
I think you might be right, overall, actually that the Pittsburgh OF could be as good. However, Tabata’s going to have to be one hell of a fielder to be a 3 WAR player as an average hitter in LF. Like, better than Carl Crawford good.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
one thing to keep in mind
RF in dodger stadium is weird. I haven’t really looked into it, but it’s just not shaped right; every time I go to the ball park there I feel like I’m i some Lovecraft story, seeing non-euclidian geometry in RF for the first time and wondering why Luddy is playing 150 feet from the line and the balls just roll into the corner.
That could easily affect Ethier’s numbers in RF.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
It's not just his numbers, he looks pretty shitty out there
by vivaelpujols on Jun 17, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
but so has Luddy, several times in the past few years
I didn’t get to go this year, but he looked awful on a couple of balls last year- one of which ended up being a triple on a ball that probably should have been caught.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
I really think we should stop throwing around WAR so much when talking about partial seasons
UZR is simply not reliable enough over small samples to do so.
Your face isn't reliable enough over small samples
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Jun 15, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OH SHNAP!
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
None of those are even close to as good as the Cardinals outfield...
by vivaelpujols on Jun 15, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, the Cardinals' worst OFer so far statistically is MATT F'N HOLLIDAY
How are they being compared to OFs with Milton Bradley and Jim Edmonds,
they're generally going to run the same everywhere
my advice is to but the lids membership card for $5 a year, and your get 20% off all your hats, it pays for itself almost immediately
I don't buy hats nearly enough for that
I have one Cards hat that is reaching the end of its life, and I think it is four years old.
breaking twitter news
MLBSTLCardinals Cards have 33 of their drafted players signed. 3rd, 4th, 5th & 7th round picks, Drew Benes among them #mlbdraft #stlcards
When did this happen?
I'm waiting on that "12th round pick signs"
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
3 time 4 equals 12, and so does 5 plus 7
It’s a sign! An omen!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
1 times 12 also equals 12
Say hello to Cox and Wilson
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jun 15, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
holy crap, s. pants, android phone owners alike!
remember everything that i was crying about with this music player? no cover flow like the iphone? inability to add album art like itunes? it’ll never be as good as the iphone’s music player?
i may have found something i like as much as or even better than the iphone player! meet (superscript) 3 aka cubed. this baby is a cube for flowing through your covers. but since it’s a cube, it give your more functionality than apple’s cover flow. up and down to go through all the albums, left and right to skip through them alphabetically so you can more quickly jump to where you need to go. as for adding album art? even easier than the iphone. you can add album art in app. suck it apple! lots of added customization, too, like if you want the pause, play, etc controls on the top or bottom, lock screen widgets, etc.! it’ll also tell you when the bands in your library are playing shows and scrobble to last.fm.
onlly bad thing i can find so far is that it was pretty clearly not written for EVO’s giant screen, so the text is a little blurry from being stretched, but otherwise, so far so good
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
mother of god
and if you don’t like the cube flow, there are several other different cover art flow options. the best one is pretty mush like the iphone’s except it flows vertically with added visual effects.
sorting by album seems to not work, but you can sort by song or artist (which is what i would always use anyway. looks like you can also build playlists in app which is something i never understood why was missing from the iphone player
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Beer snobs
Have any of you tried the Sam Adams pint glass?
I impulsively bought one after the brewery tour (and several sampler glasses of beer…), and it’s just amazing to drink beer out of. The lip feels natural, the laser etchings on the bottom make the beer bubble, and it feels great in the hand
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i stick with my double wall glasses
Nothing keeps my beer/drinks colder longer than these
I have glass ones and plastic ones
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I tried it not that long ago at a restraunt,
and it kind of felt gimmicky and small. Plus the food was awful so I have no idea if the beer was any good or better or what.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I do wish it was a little bit bigger; that's my only complaint
I might spring for a Duvel tulip… I hear good things
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I couldn't believe it was a pint.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Which could be because I usually drink out of a pint glass that is larger than a pint,
but I digress.
I do like the Tulip for some things.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
probably a UK pint
the US pint is slightly smaller. If it’s, say, a samuel smiths glass it’s probably a UK pint.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah i got one
I can confirm good things. Nice and simple, but it’s a nice glass with a big wide top, nice design i think, looks good and feels pretty sturdy in the hand. It’s pretty much essential for drinking Duvel. I have a Westmalle goblet too that I really like for Trappist beers, cut glass so it’s a bit more fancy but it’s nice and heavy and sort of “feels” right for belgian beers (I like the way they have a glass for every different beer in brugges!).
I really like the goose island tulip glass too, that’s a bit more delicate and slightly taller. Can’t find an internet pic so maybe they don’t make them anymore.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
not a big sam adams fan
I drank too much Two Brothers last night though.
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I like them.
They are a bit small, though- they hold 90% of a beer, but there’s always that last bit left over. It would be nice to be able to pour and go.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
Looks cool
I sort of collect beer glasses, though i’ve only got a dozen or so. Might have to check that out; not sure about the shape but it’s slightly unusual so i guess that makes it interesting.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i have one of these Dogfish Head glasses
https://www.dogfish.com/store/beer-drinkin-goods/glassware/dogfish-head-signature-glass.htm
similar stuff.. got the laser etching. pretty cool.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
I'm still on the fense about going to the tap room tonight
I get off work here in an hour. I can drive home, but I live in Alton. Or I can hang out for two hours after work and then walk down to the tap room…
hmm…
Beer.
I am going now
It looks like the rain is going to be done by the time 5 rolls around
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 15, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll be there!
(This is probably not going to actually increase the number of attendees.)
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Why the hell did they schedule it
basically during the game?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
are you going to veb day too?
*now with more veterany veteranness and a higher grit factor
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 15, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
That’s the plan. I’m going tonight because a) I have to work late anyway and b) there are some who will be here but not at VEB day. Since I can make both, I figured what the hell.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
huzzah!
i’ll see y’all there.
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
I would be there
if it weren’t a 4 hour drive for me. If only I had a teleporter. Or a hovercar.
Cardinals Baseball 2010: Why have only one 25th man when you can have four?
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 15, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
We were promised flying cars.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
One more I though VEB would enjoy.
Now I’m off to pregame at Calecos.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jun 15, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The 1234 thing is a bit spooky.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
It's all spooky....
that’s a walking pile of suck right there.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
no time.....just dumping memory
cards before we leave for tonight. I’ll put up a fanshot or something and link to everything I have when I get back home. Got RFL’s dinger and APu’s rundown on video. It may take me a bit to figure out how to edit and post those.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Heehee
Wasted roster spots 1-4?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I went back and checked the video
from the same time I captured that photo. Albert wasn’t wearing a hat, and Holliday was. Those 2 and RFL were in the same hitting group.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
zomg it's following me.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
"hey adam..."
“…thanks for listenin’”
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
they realized he was not a mariner, but a bloody pirate.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 15, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OT, well, slightly related
I re-watched the pirates South Park episode the other day. It’s a great one.
by jd is legend on Jun 15, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno, I'm still of the opinion that he's going to put himself back together and be an above average pitcher
somewhere… Arizona probably.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
He was never really an above average pitcher, was he?
Just average
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
His 2007 -
208 IP, 177 K’s, 3.76 ERA with a pirates D behind him.
If I cared that much I would open another internet page and find that his FIP was probably above average that year, too.
Of course, one year does not an above average pitcher make…. but Jo-L didn’t show signs of doing what he did, so baseball remains a funny little thing.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
yeah
back when he was striking out 7-8 per 9 and walking 2-3 per 9, he was above average. Sadly, he’s now K’ing 5 and walking 4 per 9, which is bad.
Though he might be a good pickup- sign him for league min, stash him on the 60-day after TJ or whatever, then go the Chris Carpenter rehab route.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
i'd rather give him a shot than suppan.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 15, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Well when the ball has trouble reaching the plate...
…the pitcher of said ball may not be long for the mound.
Thats filosoffy rite ther!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet....
skip
holliday
pujols
ludwick
freese
rasmus
molina
soup
ryan
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Wow, Tony is actually giving Suppan a good defense
He really does have a man-crush on him.
And yay for Holliday batting 2nd.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
I can't get too excited about Skipper leading off against a LHP
But otherwise, I’ll approve this lineup
Oh and I’m not wild about Soup batting or pitching for that matter.
I think the rationale is that this LHP has been knocked around by LH batters.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
as always SSS im sure, not that TLR cares
in a much bigger sample size, skip is horrid against lefties
That's my lol wut for this lineup
Once it turns over, it will go Boog-Skip-Lego-Pu-Thud
That’s like two auto outs before the heart of the order
by jd is legend on Jun 15, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
jeez
seems like we should be scoring fifteen runs a game with the nucleus we have, forget the actual batting order….
that being said, that lineup looks very sexy indeed
Why is skip playing in this game
to make sure we don’t have a RISP for Holliday?
by TheBirds on Jun 15, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I like it
He’s playing good players. Although I think I’d rather see Floppy than Skippy.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
so far in June
Schumaker .211/.244/.237/.481
Lopez .184/.295/.263/.559
and, in case you’re wondering….
Boog .265/.306/.500/.806
Meanwhile in Memphis
Greene T. has put up .304/.361./.482/ .843
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
What's his K rate right now?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Colby-esque
32.14% (18 in 56 ABs)
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
That's just June though?
overall this year he’s DRAMATICALLY reduced his K rate IIRC, which bodes well for mlb success. He maybe won’t have the power but I think he’s got a very good chance of breaking a .270 BA in the majors, which (given he’ll hit doubles, run well, add the odd dinger and he’s walking a bit now) may make him palatable at 2B, when you consider he’s likely a LOT better than Skip in the field.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Also...Lohse was with the team last night.
I didn’t expect to see him.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Um.... Happy Soup Day?
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
...
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Jun 15, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
BJRains: VERY loose clubhouse today….La Russa watching Wedding Crashers and laughing during pregame chat with media…Ryan, Pujols, Raz also chatty 5 minutes ago via web
probably better described as mumbly
his mouth is moving and sounds is coming out but damn if we can figure out what he is saying….
by FunkeeC on Jun 15, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BACK UP OFF IT.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I was watching the news...
…and he was talking at what I suppose is his full-volume. All I heard was 14 seconds of slurred Southern gibberish. But OOOOHHHH BBBBOOOOYYY can he hit.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 15, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i have his tshirt jersey along with adams from my trip to the home opener this year
least when he makes it big we wont have to worry about dealing w/ his ideas on peace in the middle east…
BJRains: Brendan Ryan hoping for short game. He is taping Laker game and asked media not to tell him after game what the score was. 1 minute ago via web
nice
gotta love pro athletes that are pretty obviously fans as well.
It’s like if he wasn’t so gifted, he’d be geeking out on the Dodgers’ blog with a Kirk Gibson avatar….
I'd wager 99% of them would be hardcore fans
If you don’t really, really love sports, you aren’t going to be in the top .00001% at doing it.
Not afraid to nitpick
God, that is SO this morning
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
still in the middle of that
I had to take a moment to collect myself when I read this part:
Fort Osage didn’t do as well in 1998, losing in the district playoffs, but Pujols had a .660 batting average, setting an area record, and 26 walks, 18 of them intentional.
I know this is high school ball we’re talking about, but YOWZA
VEB fantasy note
If he’s available in your league, now might be a good time to grab Edinson Volquez, assuming you’ve got a spare DL spot to stash him in for the rest of the year — could be a top-flight pitcher in the second half if he bounces back from TJ surgery to his 2008 levels (196 IP, 206 K, 3.21 ERA).
Also, if he DOES bounce back, that could bode poorly for the Cards. It would be like the Reds acquiring an ace without giving anything up you know Al it really would.
such BS that they let him
serve his PED suspension simultaneously with injury time/rehab.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
he was a little lucky in 08 though
and as you say, he’s coming back from major surgery. I’d be surprised if he breaks a 4.00 ERA this year
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 6:05 AM EDT up reply actions
he might get some starts
but jocketty said he could be in the pen – depends on needs. either way dusty will probably be under orders to be careful with his arm.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yeah I guess so
FWIW I really like Volquez (perhaps in part because he was one of the sleepers resonsible for me trouncing my fantasy league in 08!).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 16, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
i'd like to see him fully recover
not that i’m a secret reds supporter (it might sound that way because i like stubbs too), but because he’s pretty fun to watch pitch, in a way that, say, halladay isn’t – volquez has a little flair. watching halladay is kind of like watching pujols, whereas i liken volquez more to a bj upton.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I liken Volquez to Mary Tyler-Moore.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 17, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
because of his smile?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Randy Winn kinda sounds like Skip Schumaker...
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
Your beard is weird, your 'stache is trash!
Miles discussing Stav's Dr. Thunder t-shirt
‘It looks alot like me’.
Oh no shit, Miles?
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
Your beard is weird, your 'stache is trash!
He needs a Diet Dr. Thunder t-shirt
by jd is legend on Jun 15, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
BOOM
Didn’t ask Jack Z out to lunch, but I DID ask Assistant GM (Not to be confused with Assistant to the GM) Jeff Kingston out to lunch. He said the next few weeks will be busy, but to talk to him in July
Yadi2Second: I believe you owe me a flight to St. Louis. Or at least half way.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Seattle to Billings, Montana to Sheridan, Wyoming
first leg is about $200.
now I’m not sure you even want to fly to Sheridan, Wyoming, but charter is about $370.
it’s about a 2 hour drive on 90, though. lovely country.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I don't under LaRussa (understatement)
But he tells Mike that he doesn’t usually hit the pitcher 8th unless the hitters are struggling “because he likes it better and thinks it is a better lineup”. Was anyone else listening and can you make sense of it? It seemed to me that he is acknowledging that the pitcher hitting 8th is better, but he only does it if the offense is sucking.
I don’t understand that logic at all.
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