Cardinals Fall Over Themselves to Sign Jeff Suppan
by DanUpBaby on Jun 10, 2010 4:13 PM EDT
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PrintOkay, okay, so by "boring" I meant occasionally infuriating. Per the Post-Dispatch, the Cardinals have signed Jeff Suppan, who was, between 1999 and 2007, the very model of a slightly above-average starting pitcher.
The year now is 2010. Suppan's peripherals with the Brewers tell the story of a guy who is getting hit a lot harder than he used to and, as a result, is also not pitching with nearly the same precision he once had. On the scale of fury this is somewhere between recent bench acquisitions Aaron Miles, who simply should not be playing Major League Baseball, and Randy Winn, who is a completely adequate fourth outfielder who is nevertheless about the same player as the one the Cardinals already had.
The Cardinals' remaining options at Fifth Starter are probably not all that much better than Jeff Suppan. Evan MacLane, like Suppan, would not be able to show off the same walk restraint if he were pitching to major leaguers; P.J. Walters was just crushed by the Dodgers; Lance Lynn is, like Tyler Greene but unlike Jon Jay, gaining something from being left alone to pitch every fifth start in Memphis. The Cardinals' depth is already deployed, and there's no way around that.
But Suppan isn't an adequate response to this team's pitching problems, he's just a familiar one. And that's frustrating. He won't be any worse than P.J. Walters would have been, but he's a bad bet to be any better, and he's had more opportunities to prove it. If the Cardinals are using this as a stop-gap in the course of finding a better one, a kind of stop-gap stop-gap, so be it; I've always liked Jeff Suppan, his baserunning aside, and if he rattles off a few good starts in a row I'll cheer as loudly as anybody else.
But as a semi-permanent solution to the Cardinals' Penny problem... he isn't one. The Cardinals have two paths to solving their Lohse/Penny dilemma: they can take it as an opportunity to shower attention on almost-there prospects like Adam Ottavino, or they can acquire, through free agency or trade, a veteran who's ready to be adequate from a team who doesn't need that at all. Jeff Suppan doesn't preclude either of those options; I think the Cardinals will continue to look through their options in June and July. But while the Cardinals run him out there he offers the benefits of neither.
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I throw back my head and laugh
bitterly, as the promise of April turns into the 15-19 reality of May and June.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
i think i actually feel sick
we now have at least 3, and maybe 4 players on the 25 man roster (assuming Suppan goes right to the 25man) who should be cut, and not even possibly sent down.
i thought people were joking last night when they were talking about this. i actually feel ill. i’m going to take at least a week off from watching the cards, i think.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
why go after soups
when woody williams is still unsigned?
by lboros on Jun 10, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Woody is quite happy coaching down here in beautiful Ft. Bend county Texas
Right, Woody? Right?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
With Jaime Garcia doing so well
We should probably target a lefty and look in on Chuck Finley.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
the simo man would be better than supper
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Stottlemyre available?
I mean shoot…
If the FO is just going to sign up guys who had success under DD, might as well get the guy responsible for this freakout:
That’s a guy who’s a PROVEN WINNER who KNOWS HOW TO GO ABOUT HIS BUSINESS who GOES ABOUT THINGS THE RIGHT WAY…
He couldn’t do any worse than Soup, who’s one of my favorite characters of recent Cardinals history but WHOA DADDY can’t pitch at all anymore.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 10, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks
I think that analysis is a lot more level-headed than anything I could have come up with. I still want to smash things.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards
by madding on Jun 10, 2010 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
fu
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 10, 2010 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
And the Cubs
just took the lead in Milwaukee. Yep, baseball definitely at this moment blows goats.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:22 PM EDT reply actions
When did Tony become GM?
I feel bad for Mr. Mo.
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
The last few weeks I have lost quite a bit of respect for Mo (not that he cares or anything)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 10, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
He's either a bad GM or a pussy
Neither is good for us.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's kind of a pansy
Seriously all TLR has to do it seems is toss a fit about the team he’s been given and Mo will make a move now. It showed real stones to toss Chris Duncan to the curb and Mo has folded like a cheap tent on nearly every move since. Jay and Craig are rotting in the minors so Randy Winn’s decrepit ass can creak around the outfield. Those guys aren’t world beaters or anything but NEITHER IS RANDY F’IN WINN!!! And Aaron Miles? Seriously? The guy is terrible and was always terrible. In 2008 he was probably the team’s best hitting MIF but that’s only b/c the combo of he, Boog, and Kennedy couldn’t hit water if they fell out of a freaking boat. And now Suppan… why? TLR thinks Walters stinks (which, true enough, it’s kind of looking like he may) so we bring in another guy who really. really. sucks.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 10, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
could dewitt factor in anywhere here
or is he a guy who stays out of baseball decisions?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Randy Winn is probably just as good an option as Jay/Craig
And they can get regular ABs in AAA instead of 2 ABs a week here, not to mention not starting their arbitration clocks.
Not afraid to nitpick
The Randy Winn move is defensible.
I just don’t think Miles, Stav, and Suppan are.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 10, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
although, as with Dan, I think Suppan is just a water treading move. As with Winn, we’ve just brought in an older version of a player we already have. I don’t think it’s a bad thing (unless it precludes other moves or takes starts away from ottavino, who has talent) but it’s certainly not a good thing either.
Miles is just indefensible, though.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I really couldn't give a shit less about their arby-clocks
Either those guys are good enough to be major league players or they’re not. If they are they should be on the ML roster now. If it turns out either of them is a player then you great, and if either is just lousy then the FO will at least know that and give them the boot.
That goes for Tyler Greene and INSERTRANDOMYOUNGARMHERE too. Winn has at least been a good outfielder in recent years and I’m underwhelmed by Jay, so I can at least stomach that one, but as Willie has said right above me Miles, Stav, and Suppan are lousy at baseball, and everyone who can type www.fangraphs.com and can then read what they see after that could see that. Maybe the fringe MLers in the Cards system are horseshit. But maybe a few of them aren’t.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 10, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Did I say anything about Miles/Suppan?
Winn is a decent move that really doesn’t make much of a difference, Miles is a fucking travejokebomination and Suppan is….yeah, Jeff Suppan.
Not afraid to nitpick
No, no you did not
But they are all symptoms of the same disease. When the Cards get in trouble, they reach for blankie, and blankie always seems to be some old decrepit rotten player.
This wave of recent moves gives me the feeling that the Cards have reached for blankie. They’ve gotten those good ole proven ballplayers. Yes, Winn probably has something in the tank and I think I overstated his badness. He’s a good fielder by UZR, won’t start over Rasmus or Luddy when the chips are on the table, and isn’t exactly costing a ton of coin. However the impression seems to be that TLR doesn’t like the young players that Mo gave him to play with and has made his misgivings known.
If Mo genuinely thought that Winn was a savvy move, then that’s one thing. But if he was brought in as part of a larger TLR tantrum, then I simply cannot stomach that.
That’s basically the source of my anger today.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 10, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Believe me
I doubt anyone is any more pissed about the Miles thing than me, but Winn isn’t a good example to use to illustrate the TLR favorites theory. Miles by himself is sufficient evidence that this shit is fucking ridiculous. Four Six Six Oh Pee Ess
Not afraid to nitpick
See, I disagree that he's as good of an option
- He’s not a good defensive center fielder — Jay is.
- He’s not a good left handed hitter — Jay was showing signs of being at least average in limited AB’s.
- He’s shown not to be a good right handed hitter anymore either — something Craig (with his 30% line drive rate) just needs some time to prove, and something Mather should also be allowed to prove. I don’t see how Randy fucking Winn and his veteranness are a significant upgrade over any of those guys.
Arbitration clocks? Are you effing kidding me? These guys are 25+ years old and in AAA. If we’re worried about the arbitration clocks on players that our manager doesn’t even think can hack it at the major league level, then our organization is fucking stupider that we all thought. That’s not even a reasonable excuse for signing a player like Winn, but it’s the only reasonable one we can come up with because the other reasons don’t hold any water at all.
Why do we bother to have a minor league system when we’re going to let perfectly good players rot away in Memphis while signing every awful fucking veteran that gets cut by another team for not being worthy of an active roster spot?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Jun 10, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not to mention
Winn will also end up getting 25% more at bats than those other guys would if they were on the roster. After all, he proved himself to be a good player in 2004, and just needs to recapture the magic, just like Suppan, and Miles………..and on and on and on.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
true enough, unless some of those guys you mentioned are about
to be traded, in which case winn could be thought of as foresightedness.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
That's the other problem though
Who is trading for another team’s 27 year old prospects? You’re not going to get anything of value in return — you’re just sifting through another team’s trash in hopes of finding some treasure.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i thought craig was 25
not sure about jay or greene. bannister wouldn’t really be trash, nor would millwood or some others.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Craig has significant value, I think
although it’s sort of paradoxical that we’d be looking to deal him to a team in selling mode (i.e. KC or Pitt or someone) and yet he’s of the most value to a team in win-now mode, as he could come into a major league team with shitty corner outfielders and be an average LF in mlb right now. Someone like San Francisco, I suppose, though I haven’t followed their season that closely so could be someone in their OF can now hit their weight…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions
seattle i think has bradley in left
who could always dh, or craig could. san fran as you mention, and also washington is light on outfielders. pitt just called up tabata, who debuted in left the night after strasburg pitched and batted leadoff, got a hit his first ab – that’s all i saw of the game. pitt also started a pretty good-looking rook pitcher in his debut. with mccutchen and alvarez in the pipeline they have some talent anyway. craig and greene would probably be good fits there.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
It's just in general
3 years from now when they don’t have to pay them 2M or whatever, that’s still useful.
Not afraid to nitpick
I can see that side of it,
but if in three years we’re still signing shitty, washed up veterans and have a 29 year old Allen Craig in the minors hitting .370 against AAA pitching (and who would probably have gone elsewhere at that point since he’d be a minor league free agent by that time), then what, exactly, is the point?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
hehe, you said "stupider"
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
i agree the randy winn
move is defensible
but i dont fucking pay money to go to the ballpark and watch aaron miles i would be more entertained by watching the up and comers get a chance
i dont understand why we dont give the young guys a chance…i rather see ottavino…anderson…and t greene
by guillermozeliak on Jun 10, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
this....I'm spending a lot of money
to come out and see their product this week…..I wasn’t planning on AFM and JFS. Give me some Allen Craig, Joey Bombs, Lance Lynn, Greene Tea, anything. I would shut up if they were at least putting players with a ceiling out there, instead of all theses basement talent vets.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Show up at the ticket office on Monday and demand to speak to Mo.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
ya...I'll have to dig up the address on the Mothership......
I’ll put one together tomorrow.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm not upset in the slightest
This is Mo’s master play.
He continues to give TLR enough rope to hang himself with.
Late July, after throughly disapointing, The Organization decides to move away from Tony LaRussa and makes Jose Oquendo Interim Manager. Where the club then goes and a 20-5 streak, and win the divison. People will remember the awful roster choices TLR pushed for in the first half, and Oquendo corrected in the second. The groundswell of support is now there for Oquendo, where it wouldn’t have been.
Well played Mo’.
by YesWeOquendo on Jun 10, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
dunc might walk if they fired tony
but if not, what about him managing and elevate marty mason to pitching coach duties?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
then let Dunc walk
and give Marty Mason his shot.
what about dunc managing is my point
i think it is an interesting idea, if nothing else.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
ya, it was in that
half hour show aboot him, wasn’t it?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
eh, too bad
i think he’d be a good one.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
seriously?
he has zero patience with the press
by YesWeOquendo on Jun 10, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately
if Dunc walks, Mason might go with him, too…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:17 AM EDT up reply actions
he probably would
unless it was dunc retiring.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
that would be disastrous
Dunc is the pitcher-whisperer
but Marty Mason has been the mechanics guy for the staff.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Eight son?
He played a hard nine.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
if he is so great
explain our base running and albert constantly running through his signs
also sending players home from third at the worst time recently
i like him fine, but as manager, who knows what we’re gonna get with him
Meh
If it’s a 75% (or whatever the actual number is) chance they get home, then they should be sent and you are still going to get 25% thrown out.
Not afraid to nitpick
jose is not good at math then
some guys had about a 10% chance, and that’s including the possibility of a sudden power outage at the stadium
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Or good at gauging runner speed.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
uh
if he is so great explain […] albert constantly running through his signs
what
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
why is it his fault Albert runs through his signs?
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i assume that albert knows or sees something oquendo doesn't
hence, he needs to make better decisions when to hold someone and when to wave them home
No...I don't care if you're Willie Fucking Mays.....
you’re supposed to do what that coach says. End of story.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
not being able to get albert's attention at third
is not exactly a ringing endorsement of oquendo as manager, is it? tony at least tells him “that’s enough!” when he knocks the bubble gum over.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Albert not picking up his coach,
and I think Jose usually has good position, isn’t a ringing endorsement for being a great base runner by the same point, is it?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
nope
just saying, if i was jose, i’d be telling apu to stop when i tell you, and tony should have jose’s back.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i doubt it's ever a matter of albert not seeing the stop sign
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
of course albert sees it
but he obviously pays no attention to it
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
So, again, how is that Oquendo's falt?
u
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
albert doesn't usually get thrown out at home (that i've noticed)
i seem to remember recent skip and cheese and jay home plate fiascoes
i'm not the one saying it is his fault
i merely said being ignored by apu is not a ringing endorsement for managing him, not that i think he ever will anyway, but some do.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i'm not gonna try
to evaluate oquendo as the third base coach because, i don’t know how, but i do know that albert takes dumb risks on the base paths on the regular
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Ah, but they're AGGRESSIVE risks
so that’s, you know, good…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:18 AM EDT up reply actions
or he does what his boss tells him to do
TLR has a lot of pull with dewitt
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Jeff Suppan fun facts
2009 ERA: 7.84
2009 FIP: 4.88
2009 xFIP: 5.06
2009 tERA: 5.73
Fastball velocity this year is around 88 MPH. He has 4 pitches that he throws at least 10% of the time, but all of them are below average in terms of movement and velo.
Basically he’s a replacement level pitcher. Probably a bit better than Walters and if he only makes 1 start I’m not too pissed.
Still he sucks monkey balls and shouldn’t be on the roster.
i don't see any reason to believe he will only make one start
i’ve watcher TLR managed teams too long to fall for that one
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Mike Maroth
Seven games started, 14 appearances, an 0-5 record, a 10.66 ERA and 71 hits in 38 innings.
Don’t tell me Suppan will make just one start. He’ll probably replace Ottavino in the fourth spot in the rotation when the fifth comes on an off day.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
it was because he was amazing in his first start and the Cardinals fell in love
I doubt that willl happen with Soup.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
but he's going to pitch like crap because he's Suppan
And Ottavino is going to pitch well because he has talent. If by some miracle Suppan actually outperforms Ottavino, then yes he will start and I will fucking kill someone, but I don’t think that is going to happen.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
aaron miles started at third base yesterday.
that is all.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
After all,
supporters of the Miles signing — or even those ambivalent — said Miles would play once a week, tops. Now he’s playing every single night.
I don’t care if Suppan gives up five runs in two innings in his first start — he’s going to be in the rotation for a long time to come.
“We didn’t see the results we wanted, but I think Soup executed his pitches well,” said LaRussa in his postgame press conference. “We think he learned a lot, and he’ll be better the next time out.”
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah i said this in the earlier thread
but i’m pretty sure ottavino is gone when penny comes back.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
replacement level?
It seems like he’s worse at this point.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards
naw, replacement level is about a 5.5 ERA
Walters is about that, maybe a little worse. Soup is solidly just above replacement level.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
rWAR has him at -0.8 WAR
if he sustains that rate, he is about 3.5 wins below replacement. fWAR would put him around a half a win below replacement, but i don’t know that i buy that FIP as representative of his performance
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
His ERA is about 8, you know that's unsustainable
fWAR has him at -.1, and OH MY GOD HE WASN"T |EVEN A STARTER THIS ENTIRE TIME THIS SUCKS SO MUCH DICK WHAT THE FUCK FUCKC FUCK FUCK FUCK WHY THE HELL IS THIS ASSHOLE ON OUR TEAM WHAT THE FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
simmer down killer
apparently the FO was looking for someone to pitch 5 or 6 and give up 4-5 runs
but wait… we already have three of these on the roster
WHAT THE FUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKK
i don't know if you're making fun of me
but yeah. he’s below replacement level in 30 innings. if he were starting this whole time, it’d be a lot worse
his tERA is 5.73. that sounds about right to me. he’s not an 8.00 pitcher, but he’s not a 4.88 pitcher, either
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
He got pulled from the starting rotation faster than Zambrano did...
…with no chance at returning to it.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
He got pulled from a starting rotation
that includes Doug Davis (7.56 ERA), Chris Narveson (5.83 ERA), Randy Wolf (5.31 ERA) and, for one start, Mario Estrada (9.53 ERA).
Just think about that for a few seconds…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Me too
I think he’s probably been a little unlucky. Without looking, though, I think his peripherals fell off a bit last year (I think his walkrate had a big spike) and he had the luckiest ERA of his career, so there were some red flags coming into this year.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh
The word “ace” was banned in Milwaukee this year.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Gallardo would disagree.
but yeah the rest of their rotation is crap, they’re just lucky that they’re same division as us so they just need a soft throwing lefty(check and double check).
also don’t forget they have capuano back in the rotation.
FWIW. . .
the fastball velocity is similar to his Cardinals “heydey”.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 10, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Those facts are not fun
Liar.
Adios Esposito.
Adios Sarge. Say a prayer for Surf Boy...wherever he is.
Fastball velocity this year is around 88 MPH. He has 4 pitches that he throws at least 10% of the time, but all of them are below average in terms of movement and velo.
That is some awesome cheese right there. 88mph AND below average movement. Wow.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:19 AM EDT up reply actions
if suppan and/or miles
make significant stays on the roster, they are both much worse moves than signing an average starter to a roughly league average contract without the knowledge that he would sustain an injury that no other professional pitcher has ever had before
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
You have a point.
The FO knows what they get out of Miles and Soup. They didn’t know Lohse would be this inconsistent and… unlucky?
I want the Walrus back...
signing a pitcher who's pretty good and kind of durable as he hits 30 to a contract at the new market value,
assuming at the same time that market conditions won’t change, is exactly what the Brewers did with Jeff Suppan. Only Suppan had a longer track record.
And now we have both of them!
sorry, but nah
lohse has been consistently 2-3 WAR throughout his career. suppan never broke the 2 win threshold during his tenure in st louis, then the brewers signed him to a larger contract than lohse’ based off a post season performance
lohse was 30 at the time. suppan was 32 at the time
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
So league avg pitcher...
at slightly more than league avg. money is better than replacement player for replacement money? I’m confused.
A league average pitcher should not make $10M/yr…more like $7-8M.
I think $40M for maybe $32M of value is much worse than $600K for about $600K of value. Not to mention straining our payroll through 2012.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
suppan is not replacement level at this point in his career!
and in season where kyle lohse has pitched a full season as a starter, he is averaging 2.5 WAR. the lohse contract isn’t great, but it’s defensible. signing suppan is not defensible!
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Depends on how you look at it...
based on the 2009 stats above he appears to be slightly better than replacement. I haven’t seen his FIP/xFIP, etc… for 2010.
How is signing a stopgap starter to the prorated portion of league minimum indefensible? For all we know he’ll make two crappy starts (that would have been Hawk or PJ crappy starts), and be gone. If he’s taking playing time away from, or preventing us from pursuing a more adequate fit…then it’s indefensible. At this time I think it makes sense.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
by two different measurements,
he was one and two wins below replacement in 2009
signing a stopgap blah blah is not indefensible. signing the worst one available is indefensible
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
and
For all we know he’ll make two crappy starts (that would have been Hawk or PJ crappy starts), and be gone
have you ever watched this team? i don’t see how that is the most likely outcome
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
signing suppan is not defensible!
If he’s better than Walters or Hawksworth, which I think is quite plausible, it’s defensible. I’m not saying I’d have done it, but you can make an argument.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Why do you think Mo's calling these moves?
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
he is the general manager
I think it’s putting too much on La Russa to assume that all the terrible moves are being made over Mo’s head just because we like him. He’s party to them until we know otherwise.
I agree
I know I’m in the minority here but I think Mozeliak is probably a below-average GM over his tenure so far. Not bad, not terrible, but below-average, and I think his record of acquisitions is testament to that, tbh.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I said this as a joke, FO
I hear Suppan is available…
by Paulspike on Jun 7, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
A joke!! Oh my God… I guess we might as well be prepared for when Grudz signs too. How’s Scott Spiezio and his substance addiction going?
I want the Walrus back...
No ur doin it wrong
say something like “I hear Cliff Lee is available”
you seem to have the magic touch
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
So...
I hear the Rays might be interested in trading Suppan for Garza, Miles for Zobrist and Winn for Crawford. Straight up.
Oh! And Lohse for Price
I want the Walrus back...
Not even if there were a gun
held to Andrew Friedman’s head.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
They did trade Winn for Lou Piniella
Seriously.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 10, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
no more jokes!
everything everyone is saying (sarcastically) is coming true… like some sort of evil genie…
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards
this is like the monkey's paw
only the things we wish are already terrible, so there’s no room for dramatic irony
We got a monkey's paw that is just too stupid to know we were being sarcastic.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Well, then
I see the following:
Transactions
St. Louis Cardinals – Placed p Jeff Suppan (whatever), inf Aaron Miles (whatever) and manager Tony LaRussa (head) on the infinite disabled list.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I heard A-Rod wants to play in STL
and the yanks will give him up for some T-Rav’s from Ozzies, Papi’s BBQ and a 30 sack of sliders.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Even A-Rod
could pitch better than Suppan. I say make that deal.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Playing it cool
Too many people would run to many guys
by jd is legend on Jun 10, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
In the bullpen in memphis
and very much finished as a professional pitcher…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:27 AM EDT up reply actions
This team is pissing away wins (on paper) at an alarming rate.
A win for Miles over Greene. A win for LaRue over Anderson. A couple runs for Hawksworth over Salas/Sanchez. A win for Suppan over whomever.
If we were still 5 games up in the division, I’d drink some tequila and move on. But we’re not. We’re in the midst of a race with a good Reds team and I’m now forced to start drinking whiskey.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2010 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yup
though, I think Sanchez is hurt. Reifer is playing pretty well though.
There’s always talk in ST about moving K-Mac to the rotation, and we have all these solid near-ready/ready relievers in the minors; why isn’t there talk to move K-Mac to the rotation now, when it might actually be helpful?
"And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is ALBERT when I lay my vengeance upon thee." -The Bible
by Cardinals645 on Jun 10, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's hard for a guy who's been pitching in relief for more than 2 months to stretch out again
we’d probably have to send him down to memphis for a while to get a couple of starts in, otherwise I doubt he’d go more than 3 innings. Like, ermmm, Jeff Suppan won’t when he gets blasted out after facing about 6 batters…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:28 AM EDT up reply actions
in this sentence:
Monday night’s spectacle in which Blake Hawksworth and P.J. Walters piggybacked a 12-4 rout moved a team member to assert “this can’t happen again.”
what does “team member” mean? is it a player, coach, trainer…who all are considered members of the team?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i wonder how AP feels about Miles and Suppan
how can he be convinced that the team is committed to winning when things like this happen
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Can't hit homeruns without dropping that shoulder!
Jeff Jordan's dad can beat up your dad.
by flipthebird15 on Jun 11, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
is jeff jordan the younger or older boy?
i used to watch them play in chicago.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He's the older bro.
Played for the Illini. Marcus is down in Florida playin college ball.
Jeff Jordan's dad can beat up your dad.
by flipthebird15 on Jun 11, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
ok
jeff just walked-on his freshman year right? and did marcus end up with zeke thomas in florida? he’s not real good, but certainly better than jeff.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yeah
Jeff walked on, played 2 years, quit, then joined again last year and now I think he transferred. And yes correct Marcus is in Florida (UCF?) with Zeke changing school sponsorships. I always felt like Jeff could have been a really good PG as long as he didn’t shoot the ball. He was really quick, but he never really utilized it to the best effect.
Jeff Jordan's dad can beat up your dad.
by flipthebird15 on Jun 11, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
mine too
mostly because i assume it is a player, and i can’t imagine anyone but albert saying that – it’s hilarious to picture miles or stav saying it, though.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Im pretty sure it was Dave Duncan who said that.
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
'Hi, I'm Mr. Heisenberg, and if you don't chew Big Red, FUCK YOU!'
^ Just a guess, maybe it was TLR.
But no player should ever say that about his teammate.
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
'Hi, I'm Mr. Heisenberg, and if you don't chew Big Red, FUCK YOU!'
i'm assuming it wasn't a player who said it
otherwise the article would have said “player”
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Ehh...
I think PJ could use some more time at AAA, and as long as Soup is just the #5 I’m fine with it. Hopefully Ott is given at least thru the end of the month to prove himself, which should coincide with Penny’s return (hopefully). If Ott is pitching well…it’s bye-bye Soup. If not, and Soup is pitching well Ott goes back to Memphis for a while. Soup is free, and better/as good as our current alternatives for the last spot in the rotation.
One more thing…I hope we’re still looking for better alternatives.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
How you could be okay with...
…THIS trotting out there for anything other than an occasional jog around the field to pick up dandelions, I have no idea. Using known mediocrities is the laziest thing any team can do. Yes, no one knows how Random Youngun, RHP, #78 will pitch or if Ronny Bigswing, LF, #82 can even carry anyone’s jock, but FO’s today have too much data to bring in lousy fucking players and send them out there to flat out suck and say “Well, we know what we’re going to get from Andre T. Oldballs.” Yes, yes you do… Horrible fucking baseball playing, with of course Veterany Veteraness.
Winn, Miles, and Suppan should be looking for coaching jobs, not playing for a potentially-elite team.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 10, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
still don't understand the big problem with winn
replace his name with stav in your last sentence and i agree.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
The replacement for Winn is Jon Jay
Who is no better than Winn. That’s not the move to bitch about.
Not afraid to nitpick
I'm more pissed about Miles...
than I am Suppan or Winn. I really don’t feel we have great options for the 5th spot right now, but I am all but certain Tyler Greene would provide more value to the team right now than Aaron Miles. I really don’t feel that Soup will be given as long a leash as Miles either.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
That's exactly how I feel
I’m merely pointing out that Winn is likely to be an actual Major League player and the hate shouldn’t extend to him.
Not afraid to nitpick
I'm not really that bothered about Winn
not like any of our ex-prospect extra outfielders were lighting the world on fire.
Wow
that 2010 HR/9 is just terrible…
Looking for a good picture of Skip putting on his batting gloves to make an Avatar
I think PJ could use some more time at AAA
Walters is what he is. He’s not going to get any better. He has no projection left.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:30 AM EDT up reply actions
im seriously so fucking pissed off
the Cardinals have went from World Series cotender to possible division winners…
seriously, im not even sure they are better than reds anymore, they have, with the help of injuries, went down a ton in talent in the past few weeks
ive never seen a team get worse over the course of 2 months
something has to change or this team will be “what could have been”
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
Possible division winners?
Not at this rate. At this rate, this is a 2007 redux.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
that's overreacting... have you seen that squad's pitching?
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 10, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, yes I did, and still suffer nightmares
I also refer to the 2007 team’s offense. And that Mike Maroth and Kip Wells had one or two good starts that season, too. And that once again, LaRussa asserts his dominion over John Mozeliak, just as he did in 2007.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That club was a terrible team that lucked it's way into 78 wins with a good bullpen
This team is an awesome team that’s unlucking it’s way into a .550 W% team with terrible roster decisions and bad luck.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
i'll give some credit to bad luck
and then some to the fact that Tyler Greene is still in AAA and Miles is on our roster among other decisions
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 10, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
We still have the most talent in our division by far
We just need a little luck with injuries and we should still blow away the division.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
not with Aaron Miles in our lineup
and Jeff Suppan on the mound
but as of now, they are not serious world series contenders to me…. as long as suppan and miles are on the roster
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 10, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
miles and suppan are irrelevant to the team's chances in the playoffs
because they almost certainly wouldn’t play. Where they hurt the Cardinals is in the regular season.
Guaranteed Loss Night!
A free full-up at Sonic if they happen to luck out and win.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
im not going to assume that until it happens
frankly your almost certainly right, but that’s exactly what we said about miles getting on the club
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 10, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
We've had bad luck
with injuries, granted. But with the front office — at the urging of the manager — committing own-goals week after week …
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think you realize how talented this team is
Garcia, Wainwright and Carp are legitimately top 20 starters in the NL, with the latter probably top 5.
Pujols is the best player at his position. Holliday and Ludwick are near the top. Rasmus and Yadi are near the top. Freese is near the top. Lopez is solidly above average.
Some FUCKED UP roster decisions from managemetn can’t undue that all.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
and yet, we still can't consistently score runs
and can’t run bases to save our life
talent means nothing when you don’t execute when it counts
I think we are getting unlucky
Yadi’s double last night is evidence of that.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
also
We’ve had a ridiculous number of outs on the basepaths. Then there’s the inexplicable difficulty with generating sac flies.
also, why is our bunting so poor?
dodgers made it looks so easy and we seem to not be able to bunt worth shit
Mark McGwire is our hitting coach
I can’t imagine he knows shit about bunting
by jd is legend on Jun 10, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Cardinals player: "So how do I bunt properly coach?"
Big Mac: “Just nudge it slightly so it goes barely over the fence”
by d-dee on Jun 10, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Working on it as we write. Next up stolen base technique.
Will bring on Vince Coleman to help the ground crew test the tarp.
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
those runners on the bases had to be sacrificed
for the betterment of our LOBster numbers
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
The team isn't even the best at that?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
HOW THE FUUUUUUUUCK
Can a team with Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday, Colby Rasmus etc etc et fucking cetra leave four hundred and fifty men on base in barely over 2 months.
450 / 60 = 7.5 per game
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
might as well start two innings with the bases loaded
not like we’d score ’em
Fuck, i’m pissed with this team right now
yeah, too bad we didn't have anyone to ph
so relievers batted twice with bases loaded. at least anderson got to hit much later – good thing we saved him. instead of only one, maybe he could have been instrumental in winning two games for us in his brief stint.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
450-22 / 60-1 = 428 / 59 = 7.25 per game
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
do the braves and brewers outscore us, though?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i thought the braves, not the astros, were the second team
originally, but hey, we are getting outscored by the astros?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
of course
trying to do VEB and class at the same time
makes me bad at both
sorry, replace Astros with Braves (the A in Atlanta got me)
let's do this again
Atlanta Braves R 290 LOB 480
Milwaukee Brewers R 285 LOB 463
St. Louis Cardinals R 268 LOB 450
as of 6/10
so they leave more on
but still manage to score more.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yes, by 20.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
but we don't want to be first
without losing those runners, we’d likely be first. it’s one of those things like golf, where a high number is bad – this is what i mean by betterment. although leading in LOBsters would be fine if we weren’t ninth in runs scored in the league.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i know d-dee
i was being sort of snippy – this team and management is very frustrating right now.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
15-19
in May and June. That’s quite a while to be mediocre.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really
Unless you think Pujols, Yadier, Holliday, Ryan and Skip are going to continue to play the worst baseball of their careers.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
we’re tied for the division lead (ack, one game back actually) with a Reds team who’ve been pretty lucky so far. They’re good but I think we’re still marginal favourites.
Also, the Brewers and Cubs being more or less out of it is a real benefit to our chances. Much easier winning a head-to-head race than a 3 or 4 way, because the chances of the Reds imploding are MUCH higher than the chances of 3 or 4 teams imploding all at once.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I really don't think
we are better than the Reds. Maybe. The Reds’ bullpen is horrific but our lineup isn’t very good and our rotation is getting worse by the day. As long as Albert hits like Holliday and Holliday hits like Schumaker, we’re just not very good.
Agreed
And they could stick a couple of their high minors starters in the bullpen if they wanted to improve it. I actually think they’ve just pitched badly, but it’s the same bullpen they had last year for the most part, and they were one of the best in the league last year.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
"our lineup isn't very good"
With:
Pujols
Holliday
Ludwick
Rasmus
Freese
Lopez
All above average hitters, with Yadi and Skip slightly below. Ryan’s our only bad hitter and he makes up for it with our glove.
I think you meant to say “our lineup the past week hasn’t been very good”. Of course it would then be apt to mention that that lineup has been missing two of our best hitters, and everyone else has been massively underperforming (with the exception of Ludwick). Teams tend to look bad when that happens.
Our pitching is far better than the Reds and our offense, when healthy, is comparable if not better. I posted the WAR analysis above – the Cardinals project to be around 92 win team with Rasmus, Freese and Penny, and including some other pessimistic projections regarding Rasmus, Ottavino and Ludwick.
I’m not afraid of the Reds. The Cardinals still have the most talent in the division by far.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
The Reds bullpen is good IMO
probably better than ours when luck/sample sizes all equal out. Nick Masset and Cordero are both better than anyone we’ve got, IMO (although their backup guys are worse).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:37 AM EDT up reply actions
rhodes has been really good
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah
their bullpen is better than ours
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
so at the expense of raining on the Suppan parade
signing Winn, Miles and Suppan to pro-rated league minimum deals = roughly $1million
that plus the leftover Wagner Mateo money after signing the 27 year old Dominican pitcher would be something like
$3 million right? Isn’t that the floated asking price for Austin Wilson?
my understanding of how baseball players at the minimum are paid might be all wrong
but somebody has to get that $400,000—whether it’s Jay, Greene, and Walters or Winn, Miles, and Ottavino it’s a million that’s getting spent.
Winn and Suppan should cost St. Louis roughly $500-600k
Minimums pro-rated.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Right...not sure what his deal is.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
he should be grateful they let him through security at Busch
they have to pay him?
I have a hate relationship with the Cardinals' roster makeup decisions. | Cards on Cards
Nevermind...looks like Cincy's paying his salary this year...
So the Miles/Winn/Suppan combo plate costs the team ~$750-900k
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
the cards are still on the hook for the pro-rated league min, I believe.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Right.
Which the $750-900k covers, for all three Proven Veterans.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
And I wish it was to Memphis players
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
And there's a reason for that
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
the 27 yr-old dominican pitcher
LOL – remember, what we say here in jest has a way of coming true…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yeah, what Dan said
for the purposes of budgeting, just assume league minimum = free. You’ve got to pay 25 guys at least half a mill each.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:38 AM EDT up reply actions
dear Chris Carpenter
please take care of this “situation”
Samsonite and some St Louis Masons will be glad to sponsor you
swippy, swammy swan swan, swanson?
samsonite! i was way off.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
St. Louis Masons make luggage now?
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
They make luggage out of bricks now?
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Ahahahahaha
Sorry, I thought it was funny :).
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
practice on pigs....
that way, when your done, you’ve got bacon.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jun 10, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sources say...
Carp doesn’t give a fuck
I want the Walrus back...
by Paulspike on Jun 10, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
But Pujols
probably is happy. Because, you know, 12-4 can’t happen again.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
But 11-4 can, and 10-4, 11-3, 11-2, 11-1
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
'Hi, I'm Mr. Heisenberg, and if you don't chew Big Red, FUCK YOU!'
This doesn't mean he can't progress to be a great 2 starter or ace, right?
How long can we expect Jaime Garcia’s excellent work to continue? Is his stuff really that good, or will hitters around the league figure him out after they’ve seen him once or twice?
— Dennis W., Jerusalem
His ERA is already starting to rise a little bit. And reasonably — obviously you can’t expect it to stay under 2.00 all season long. The question is, though, will Garcia continue to pitch like a front-of-the-rotation starter, even if he doesn’t continue pitching like a Hall of Famer?
Have a question about the Cardinals?
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I have my doubts. I believe that if Garcia stays healthy, he’ll continue pitching well, and certainly will be an asset to the club. But based on both my own observation and some of the numbers, I think his real level is more a quality second- or third-starter type of pitcher than an ace.
Based on observation, I see a pitcher whose command isn’t always consistent, and who likely will pay for that more as teams get to see him more. Based on the numbers, I see peripheral stats that indicate an ERA in the 3s rather than an ERA in the 1s.
Again, that’s no insult. That’s not a shot at Garcia. If, for example, he pitches with a 3.70 ERA for the rest of the season, that’s a significant asset to a ballclub. I just think that expectations should be reasonable.
I want the Walrus back...
Based on the numbers, I see peripheral stats that indicate an ERA in the 3s rather than an ERA in the 1s.
Well, no shit Sherlock. You’re telling me Jaime Garcia isn’t, statistically speaking, the best pitcher ever?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:41 AM EDT up reply actions
This is a goddamn disaster
this team is falling apart before my very eyes. How can the team make so many moves that are not just dumb but downright reactionary in such a short span of time?
Right now, sans Penny, Freese, Rasmus, Greene, Craig, Jay and Lohse (yes, I know) and with Miles and Suppan, this team is a .500 baseball team at best.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
.500 at best
EVEN THOUGH we have 3 of the best pitchers in the NL this year.
i don’t even understand how that’s possible.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
My career director said to me
“I have always been a Dodger fan and I am thrilled we swept the Dodgers. But… I don’t understand how. I don’t see how the Dodgers swept the Cardinals”
The director of the entire career… A doctor… And even he can’t understand how are we sucking like this
I want the Walrus back...
Again --
in May and June, they haven’t been a .500 team. They’ve been a team four games under .500.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
that's where at best comes in
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
but not since the all-star break last year
which we are getting closer now to a full season of data – this just makes me queasy in light of the impending contract on top of holliday’s. it has to at least give you pause.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the only reason to choose the all-star break as your endpoint
is that his numbers make you queasy—that’s not really a reasonable way of explaining why a loss of value is real.
i'm just looking at a full season, his latest full season
once we get to the all-star break this year. his numbers don’t make me queasy, it’s giving an enormous contract in money and years in light of those numbers that makes me queasy. but of course we aren’t to the all-star break yet, so things could turn around, and sometimes do in a hurry with albert. but so far every time it seems he’s going to break out and go wild, it lasts only a game or two.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the point is
that you’re choosing a time period that confirms your suspicons
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
no, i have no suspicions
if i am going to give out this contract, his last year of data is the time period i am most interested in, especially after age 30.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Why do you only look at his last year of data?
It’s been proven that looking at thee years of data is more predictive than only looking at one year.
Besides, his last year is almost identical to what he did in 2007. He followed that up with the best season of his career in 08.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i didn't say i only look at his last year
i said i am more interested in it, especially after 30, when a decline phase is inevitable at some point anyway. you can’t tell me there won’t be a lot of hand-wringing in the front office if albert hits the all-star break with a “poor” last year of work, especially if it continues through the second half – this isn’t 2007 anymore.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
but
you were bandying about this post all-star break business a month into the season. then, it wasn’t “since last may.” it’s always been since the all-star break. it’s called a cognitive bias and we all have them. recognizing them is good
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
sure, but i don't have one
at the all-star break, i will look at his past year. things could look much different by then, or not. the all-star break is merely a good cut-off point, and time to look over his last year. i don’t use may of last year because i’m not looking at him until may of this year. you can do that if you like, but i am going all-star to all-star. didn’t know there was some rule about time-frames in which you can evaluate someone. and if nothing is up with albert, i’m sure his numbers will look more normal by then, so i’m giving it some more time.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
you're the one arbitrarily choosing one year
and what i’m saying is that in may of this year, you were talking about albert’s production since the all-star break. now that we’re getting close to that all-star break you’re still using the same cut off but because you like to look at it in full year increments. if that’s the case, why in may, didn’t you go back to may 2009? answer is because he was tearing the cover off the ball in may
“i don’t have any cognitive biases” -cardball 2010
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 10, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so glad you are inside my mind
and can quote me out of context – no cognitive biases on this matter at hand, not in general. my intent was to look at him for one year, at the all-star break. for some reason you want me to change my project. well, then do your own, and feel free to use any time-frames you want. i don’t really understand your problem with this. like i said, i chose the all-star break, but you can choose any starting point you like. i’m looking at this in relation to his upcoming contract, and the all-star break was the earliest i could see something being done. if it goes to the off-season, then i will look at 2010 as the last year, so there will be no all-star break to all-star break “arbitrary” cutoff.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
you're still missing this?
at the end of april you were using the all-star break. not because it was a nice round number like a year, but because that’s when his production declined a bit. now that it’s close to the all-star break, you claim that you choose the all-star break because it is one year. but at the end of april when you were quoting his numbers since the all-star break it wasn’t all that close to a year, so why choose that cut off point then?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 10, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
because it was my intent
i want to see what he did in his last year before signing the contract, and i thought it could happen at the all-star break, earliest. what has happened since, with his agent leaving to set up his own shop, with albert in tow, makes me think it even more likely. and by the way, when his agent left and there was hand-wringing here, i said immediately that what it meant was that apu was leaving with him, and his commission off albert’s soon-to-be contract explained his move.
as i said, if it happens after that, then the year shifts, and continues to until he signs.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
his agent left?
wasnt some conglomerate that rep’d pujols not just one guy
by guillermozeliak on Jun 11, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Dan Lozano worked for Beverly Hills Sports Council.
He left and took Albert with him.
Regression, bitches.
Lozano was Longoria's agent wasn't he?
that can only be good…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:59 AM EDT up reply actions
paul cohen is longoria's agent
i believe he is colby’s agent also.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
his personal agent left the agency
turns out he’s branching out on his own, taking albert with him (and a few others) for his foundation. this is why i think talks might be very advanced, just by the timing of the thing. the commission would be his, and not the former agency’s. i just don’t know how long he has to be separated from the agency, or if there is any time-frame at all.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i doubt it.
albert was very clear about negotiating during the season. and it’s not like his leverage is at its peak right now. a deal will not get done mid-season
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 11, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
negotiating has been going on for a year
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Up to a point
but it’s also correct to say that this is the worst full year of baseball in Pujols’ career (I believe). That’s not an insignificant fact.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions
2007 was definitely worse than the last calendar year?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
We still have Carp, Waino, Garcia, Pujols, Ludwick, Holliday, Molina – WELL above average players. Lopez, Skip and Ryan are around average. Motte, Boggs, Franklin, Miller and Reyes are a perfectly respectable bullpen.
Injuries to 2 starters and 1 below replacement level starter and 1 below replacement level platoon middle infielder does not turn a 95 win team into an 81 win team at best.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a generous assessment
but Boog has been replacement level and Schu has be sub-replacement level.
Use your eyes. Can the team we put out there last night (adding in Jeff Suppan) really expect to win more than half their games?
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
No
But the team we put out last night with a normal wainwright, carp and Garcia can expect to win way more than 50% of their games. Do I really have to break out a fucking WAR spreadsheet for this? Miles and Suppan are two shitty players but they are not going to have such a big impact. Jesus.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, break 'em out
Supp getting the fourth start. Schu and Ryan up the middle. I want to see what kind of performance that would be going forward.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
Okay, using Oliver projections, here is how last night's starting lineup projects going forward using WAR/600 PA
Lopez: 1.5
Miles: -1.0
Pujols: 6.4
Holliday: 4.3
Ludwick: 2 (seems very bearish)
Yadi: 2.5
Winn: 1.0
Skip: 1.1
So that’s 17.8 WAR right there, and if you sub in Ryan for Miles that’s 20.9. We’ll split the difference and say 19.4 WAR for the offense assuming Rasmus and Freese don’t play a game.
For pitches you get this for WAR/180 innings:
Waino: 4.3
Carp: 5.2
Garcia: 2.8
Ottavino: -0.9
Soup: -0.9
So that totals to 10.5 WAR assuming Penny doesn’t make a start and Ottavino is really below replacement level. Time for the bullpen using WAR/60 IP.
Franklin: 1.1
Motte: 0.9
Boggs: 0.1
Miller: 0.9
Reyes: 0.8
Hawk: 0.4
So that’s 3.3 WAR out of the pen. I’m not sure if those values are adjusted for leverage or not.
So using those projections and assuming 60 plate appearances for each starting pitcher we get 5100 plate appearances and 19.4 WAR out of our lineup. The average lineup get’s about 6300 plate appearances, so let’s assume 0 WAR for the bench and injury subs (even though those will include Rasmus and Freese).
Our rotation and bullpen projects for 1260 innings and 13.8 WAR. The average team will get about 1460 innings pitched, so let’s assume that the injury subs fill in the remainder with 0 WAR.
Add it all up and you get a team projection of 33.2 WAR. The average team will get a replacement value of around 50, so that’s an 83 win team right there over a full season, assuming:
*Rasmus, Freese and Penny don’t play at all
*Ottavino is below replacement level
*Suppan pitches 180 innings over a full season
*Wainwright only pitches 180 innings
*Ryan and Miles split time equally
I’d say that’s about as pessimistic a projection as you could give and it still has us slightly better than a .500 team. Subbing in Rasmus for Winn, Penny for Soup and Freese for Miles makes us a 92 win team (and that assumes Rasmus only get’s 2 WAR per 600, which is incredibly bearish). In short, stop overreacting.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 16 recs
I don't think the reaction,
or overreaction, as the case may be, is being generated entirely by the Suppan signing. Rather, I think the signing is the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Any of the questionable decisions we’ve seen – Winn over Jay/Mather/Craig, signing Suppan, Miles over Greene, Lopez playing anywhere but second base on a regular basis, the ongoing fascination while Nick Stavinoha (Indian name “Kneeling Homer”), filling the infield with questionable defenders when you’ve got a groundball philosophy driving your pitching staff, I could go on – taken individually would warrant the level of response we’re seeing here.
Thing is, they didn’t all happen individually. They’ve all happened together. That’s a LOT for intelligent baseball fans to swallow, especially given the distru…no, let’s call it the “healthy skepticism” that’s been engendered by the way TLR and the FO sometimes behave when doling out information and dealing with questions about such decisions and their handling of past incidents (Duncan Sr.‘s hissy fit about Duncan Jr.’s trade, for example.).
And not only did they all happpen together, they all happened withing about one month of one another. It’s like the GOB decided to compress all the standard TLR veteran preference craziness into one sixth of its normal time.
That, I think, warrants the reaction we’re seeing here.
by dronemc on Jun 10, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For one I don't think the Winn move was bad at all
And any number you look at is going to confirm that.
Secondly, this ignores all of the good moves this team has made this year, which include:
*Giving Jaime the 5th starter job out of ST
*Starting Freese every game even though he was struggling at the beginning
*Signing Lopez for 1-2 million (great, great value)
*Signing Penny
The only bad moves that have been made are bringing up Miles instead of Greene and signing Suppan instead of someone else. The Nick Stavinoha fascination sucks also, but he’s actually been playing very well this year so let’s give that time (and you know I hate Stav more than anyone else).
I don’t think you can make a case that Mo has somehow screwed over this team. It looks to me like the good moves he has made have far outweighed the bad ones.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
question is though
why is the FO even making bad moves? and i’m talking obviously bad off the bat and not questionable that prove bad down the line
I don't know
But seemingly every front office in the league, even the supposedly smart ones, make a handful are retarded ass moves. Matt Tuia-something on the Mariners is the literally the worst hitter in the history of baseball, yet he’s gotten over 60 plate appearances this year.
I agree that Miles and Soup are indefensibly bad, so I’m just as confused as you are.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
soup is not yet signed, remember
and even if/when he does, he could start out in memphis as insurance if something like a trade happens in the upcoming days. it is possible, but depending on who might get dealt could explain some moves. if not, then yeah, not of it makes sense.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i don't know
they are making him throw a bullpen, possibly two. maybe to see if dunc thinks he can fix something, maybe stalling…i don’t know.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
if there is some trade on the horizon
it could fall through, and suppan might be plan B – at least they have him with them, if needed.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
But seemingly every front office in the league, even the supposedly smart ones, make a handful are retarded ass moves.
I definitely agree with this. If you can minimise the damage caused by the bad moves you’re doing OK.
On another point, probably best to avoid using “retarded” as a pejorative, I’d have thought.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:07 AM EDT up reply actions
all that praise was given and then
days went on and the season progressed, but i like ur thoughts
but watching aaron miles play is like hearing that “and a pretzel” radio commercial…you just want to change the station
and the suppan move accentuates miles terribleness for some reason
i have no problem with stav, but it irritates me the trigger happiness of sending non vets back down
by guillermozeliak on Jun 10, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
one reason they could have been sent down is to be traded
mashing in AAA is better for that than sitting the pine in the bigs. yes, having them on the roster would make us marginally better, but at the same time might not be as valuable to the org – not just the big club in the short-term – as somebody we might acquire in a trade for them. we don’t know yet what might happen. it is possible that winn is here because he is cheap, having nothing to do with his “veteran-ness”. miles and stav don’t belong, but greene may not be around to replace miles, descalso needs a full year in AAA to prepare for next year with the big club, etc. i don’t think mo is an idiot, so there might actually be a master plan not designed by tony larussa.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i honestly believe sitting on the pines than proving your self when you get a chance
is better than mashing in AAA
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 10, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
not for an acquiring team
it would be better for us marginally in the short-term to have them, but an acquiring team isn’t getting them to ride the pine – they want to see what they do every day. and a couple at bats a week wasn’t going to allow that. the acquiring team already understands they were good enough to ride the pine in st louis, and they understand miles and stav are not considered better by the org – otherwise they wouldn’t want them.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
FWIW re: Stav
ZiPS projects both him and Craig as about average going forwards. So if they’re just taking pinch-hits (obviously Craig is superior in the field) I think you can say from an objective point of view that there’s a fairly minimal difference between them. I still think Craig is much the better hitter (and other projection systems support that) but the difference probably isn’t as great as we think, AND, as Craig is about the only “fringey” guy we have who’s actually tradeable, reducing his service time isn’t a bad thing.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:05 AM EDT up reply actions
D-VON!
GET THE CHAIR!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:08 AM EDT up reply actions
too bad about craig
i like him, but the org has to seriously be thinking about keeping luddy at this point, and tony wouldn’t play craig in right anyway because of his arm, which is unfortunate because he can handle the position fine athletically. so he’s worth more to us in a trade for somebody who will actually play, like a pitcher, than he is as a bench player. might as well trade him sooner than later rather than let him get stav’s age.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Agree with this assessment, nice work.
Here’s what worries the shit out of me though, and it’s something I’ve been saying since the spring:
That Reds team scares me
They’re leading the division and 2/5 of their rotation hasn’t shown up yet (Bailey, Harang). Their bullpen hasn’t been good either. But……
- Cueto has really picked it up the last month and Leake has been outstanding.
- They’re scoring runs, something a lot of people poo-poohing them in the spring thought they would have trouble doing
- They have Aroldis Chapman in the minors and Edinson Volquez on the 60 day DL who could both arrive in the rotation for the stretch run.
- They have the prospects to go out and actually get an impact player at the deadline: They could get Konerko and move Votto to LF, they could get Berkman and do the same thing. They could go out and get Cliff Lee to anchor their rotation. The Cardinals don’t have the ability to make very many moves at the end of July, that could spell trouble for us if Cincy is in it and goes “all-in” with this team.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
they'd definitely be going all-in if they got berkman or konerko
and lee would be a rental that would cost a guy they could maybe put at first if they are willing to move votto to left. this being jocketty, i could see it happening if the owner is willing to pony up the cash for konerko or berkman.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Maybe Bailey and Harang just suck?
Harang’s been solidly in reverse gear for three years now, and Bailey, for all his talent (and an OK 2009), still doesn’t really look very good.
I think Leake is due for MASSIVE regression, as well. Although this is based more on my opinion than the numbers (admittedly, he’s been lucky by the stats too), I actually think he’s quite poor and will start to get hit really hard in the 2nd half. Bit like JA Happ last year, I think he’s kinda smoke and mirrors for the most part.
I still think their pitching is, if anything, OVER-rated by a lot of people (though I know you disagree), though they could get better in a hurry if/when Volquez gets back and they give Chapman a chance (although he needs to show better control IMO if he’s to be anything more than an effectively wild 4th starter-type in the Jonathan Sanchez 2008-mould at this point).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:11 AM EDT up reply actions
They have the prospects to go out and actually get an impact player at the deadline: They could get Konerko and move Votto to LF
Also, I’m not sure that improves them THAT much. Konerko is having a banner year, for sure, and is a player I’ve always liked, but Votto has the chance to be a real adventure in left, and I’m not sure Konerko genuinely promises to be much more than, say, a 3-WAR true talent guy going forward.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:13 AM EDT up reply actions
i think konerko has quite a bit left on his contract
like 30-40 million. anyway, right now gomes is doing it for them in left, and center and right are solid and young. the only place positionally the could realistically improve (ss not realistic, i don’t think) is catcher, so they should probably be more interested in AJ than konerko. i think they must have an injury there too, because they’ve been playing that 10-yr vet i’d never really heard of before they played us.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
And Ludwick is absolutely not a 2 WAR player
I’m not sure how Oliver is getting that.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought it meant he would be 2 WAR from here on out
to be a 2 WAR player on the year, he would have to be sub-replacement level from here on out.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
i believe in the projection matchups tom was doing
comparing us with other nl contenders, luddy was projected at 2 war for the season – not sure what system that was – but in our matchup comparison to san fran, so was john bowker. i don’t know what the numbers should have been, but luddy should have been twice bowker anyway.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Given Ludwick's heading up towards 2 WAR now
I think I’d agree. He’s a 3-4 WAR player IMO.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
Unless you really think the performance right now is indicative of the rest of the season with Molina, Holliday, Schumaker, Ryan, and other guys undergoing incredibly slumps.
Also, if you think Suppan, Winn, and Miles will ruin this team, give me a break. I’m sorry we aren’t dominating the division, but to lay blame on our troubles on them is either incredibly shortsighted, or you are hiding from the real problem, which is that we can’t hit with RISP with guns to our heads.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
skip has struggled so much
it was just so refreshing to see tony show confidence in him last night, starting him against the best lefty in the league…skip must really appreciate this show of confidence from tony, and even though he struck out 3 times, i’m sure that, in the long-run, this move will have positive results.
/not really
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
im as big a skip fan as any
but NEVER start him against a lefty especially one as dominant as kershaw
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 10, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
that SHOULD’VE been a big part of signing Lopez; Skip never needs to face a lefty this year. But of course, he’s actually faced a higher percentage of plate appearances than usual against lefties (brainfart).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Meh
I don’t get the love for Jay and Greene. While Greene is probably better than Miles, Winn actually seems to be an upgrade over Jay. And Greene isn’t much of an improvement over Greene. He might do well in the minors, he every time he’s been in the majors, he looks complete overmatched.
Indeed, except for excellent defense, Jay is basically another Miles of the outfield.
Greene, even if he continues to not hit in the MLB, is a better hitter than Miles
And he’s obviously twice as good at defense. This isn’t to say Greene is a world beater, it’s to say that Miles is barely a AA talent.
You really, really aren’t taking into account how bad Miles is at hitting: he has basically zero shot at cracking a .700 OPS. Jay is likely to be in the .730 range to go with that plus defense.
Not afraid to nitpick
also
Greene looks to have taken another big leap forward this year. His stats in AAA are really superb; he’s hitting like a genuine middle of the order hitter, and has really cut down the strikeouts (which were the thing holding him back previously). I’ve been a big doubter of Greene in the past but I think people need to look past his struggles in 100-odd mlb plate appearances and see that his hitting has genuinely come on a LOT in the last 12 months or so.
He’s earnt his chance. I’m all for meritocracy, and you really can’t argue that Greene has been excellent and should’ve played his way into a starting role at 2B (or, at the VERY LEAST, the backup middle infield role).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:17 AM EDT up reply actions
i don't think he performs well when getting only occasional play
when boog was really struggling and greene was up he should have gotten an opportunity for some extended starts. SSS, but his numbers in games he started are really pulled down by all the ab’s here and there. if boog is going to hold ss, then i’d like greene to start at second, and he certainly adds speed to the team. then lopex can be the super-utility/basically everyday player and wouldn’t even have to play short when boog sits – greene could just move over and let lopex play second. of course, this leaves nowhere for schu really, except a bench role.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I understand that Greene has hit relatively poorly in the majors.
But as poorly as he’s hit, that’s STILL better than Aaron MIles. And then there’s the additiional difference in defensive ability.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 10, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed, except for excellent defense, Jay is basically another Miles of the outfield.
Yeah, except for being better and catching balls, throwing, and hitting, and playing a completely different set of positions, Jay is just like Miles.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Jay's probably a 20 Uzr CF if he played full time, it's a damn shame Mlb hasn't taken into notice my proposal for a four man OF
side question: if ludwick does indeed walk at the end of the year and jay is a starter does he play RF or CF? I guess the real question is then, who is a better fielder?
In your scenario, Jay plays RF
Rasmus in RF…with his current arm?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
I really think people are over-rating Jay's hitting
based on a small sample size in the majors when he’s been very fortunate on balls in play.
I don’t think he’s an everyday player in the majors. You could possibly have him as the main end of a right-field platoon, but I think we need some more offense from our middle infield in that scenario, as Jay’s not going to be anywhere near as good as ludwick with the bat.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 14, 2010 4:30 AM EDT up reply actions
what the hell does that mean?
is there still hope someone sobers up before there’s ink used?
JohnMarecek: Lots of excitement that Suppan has signed, but no pen to paper yet. Not sayin I don’t expect it, just not done yet. #stlcards
p.s. try “outrage”, not “excitement”
flabbergastery
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
more hope?
BJRains: FWIW, Mozeliak told me in an email, “We have interest, but no decision today.” Still, sounds like a deal will get done at some point. 5 minutes ago via web
quick everyone, start sacrificing everything you can get your hands on to the GOBs
Motherfucker...
This dynamic reminds me of an annoyed mother and a spoiled six-year-old.
TLR: “I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES I WANT AARON MILES!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Mozeliak: “Okay, I’ll get you Aaron Miles if you shut up until we leave.”
TLR: “YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY”
TLR: “ooohhh…. I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN I WANT JEFF SUPPAN GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME”
Mozeliak: “Fine. Here. Just shut up.”
TLR: “YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY”
by craig3410 on Jun 10, 2010 4:54 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Well
it started with LaRussa pounding on the table to get Holliday, then keep him. Not an unreasonable request, perhaps, but then LaRussa, like a brat in a grocery store, kept pushing it.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Drama at work
A co-worker got arrested today and the employer called the cops. On a side note, productivity was way up.
Would of got a promotion for that
The dude was family of the owners so he had to do some bad shit.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 10, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I would have
shaken your co-workers hand.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Was he arrested for beating someone with a Suppan?
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
some people are saying it is for smoking weed
But shit it wasn’t like he did it that day. Because he literally showed up to get his check and 2 mins later the cops showed up. Had to steal something. But not much to steal at my work besides cars
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 10, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh oh
Indians just released Grundzielankenjziegrund, some other washed up Vet. for TLR to lust after.
On a related note: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
oh no.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
yeah
I could vaguely get behind Grudz. To be honest, he’s probably better than Schumaker at this point, too. If Skip isn’t hitting he really has zero value.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, I sure hope he works out for you
God knows he didn’t for us. You’re welcome to use this graphic as often as you like.
(Might want to change the hat.)
by nullacct on Jun 10, 2010 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
lulz
thanks… i’ll be using that. i think i’d rather keep the hat though, if you don’t mind
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
keep the hat
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Brilliant. . . .My compliments
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
You all are over-reacting...
I just don’t understand the hate… Suppan will be the 12th pitcher on the staff, how many innings will he really pitch? Does it really matter if we have one two three players like this?
DFA Miles, Call up Cox
by guayzimi on Jun 10, 2010 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
yeah he's only going to pitch MAYBE once a week guys!!!
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
If Sup goes out once a week, pencil in Miles, Floppy and maybe call up Mather as Sup inning eaters. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Two words:
Sarc Asm.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:20 AM EDT up reply actions
if you make him pitch to contact and keep the ball down
the infield can scoop up most of it
but wait… miles. skip. and floppy at ss
yeah, we’re fucked
He's going to start some games
He won’t be doing mop-up work.
Adios Esposito.
Adios Sarge. Say a prayer for Surf Boy...wherever he is.
everyone is likely missing guayzimi's sarcasm
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeh that was pretty evident
since he was mocking others for saying that about miles
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 10, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
How many fucking 25th guys on the roster does this team need?
by jd is legend on Jun 10, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
will he take angry complaints and criticism?
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
'Hi, I'm Mr. Heisenberg, and if you don't chew Big Red, FUCK YOU!'
how about flaming bags of dog crap?
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Some of those questions being...
“Was there a power outage that reset all the Busch Stadium computers to 2007 on the calendar?”
“You are aware ‘degree of difficulty’ is a scoring tool in diving, not baseball, right?”
“Is Danny Shaeffer available, ’cause we could use another defensively limited outfielder type.”
“Does Tony have naked pictures of you with Carlos Zambrano or something?”
by dronemc on Jun 10, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
"You are aware ‘degree of difficulty’ is a scoring tool in diving, not baseball, right?"
FTW
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jun 10, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yah, awesome.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:21 AM EDT up reply actions
"And are there copies of those pictures?"
Because we’d like to post them on the internet as a cautionary tale.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As for when we might seen Suppan pitch: they’ve already “announced” their rotation for the D’back series – with today’s off-day, they had planned to skip the 5th-starter slot and go with Garcia (4 days’ rest), Ottavino (6 days’ rest) and Carpenter (4 days’ rest) against the D’backs, with, presumably, Wainwright on Monday at home against Seattle, and not needing a fifth starter until next Tuesday, the 15th.
With Soup now on board, my guess is they’ll have him throw a bullpen or two while in Arizona, with an eye towards starting him on Tuesday; I don’t think they’d want to have him immediately start, even if it would give Garcia and Carp an extra day’s rest.
So Soup on Tuesday (unless Penny is ready by then, which I doubt), followed by Garcia against Seattle; then after another off-day, it’s Ottavino, Carpenter, and Wainwright vs. the Oakland A’s. Then, another off-day on the 21st, then on to Toronto, where it’s Suppan, Garcia, and Ottavino against the Jays, then Carpenter, Wainwright, and Suppan in Kansas City before returning home on the 28th to face Arizona, where you’d have Garcia, Ottavino and Carpenter scheduled, followed by a 4-game series vs. Milwaukee with Wainwright, Suppan, Garcia, and Ottavino.
By that point (July 1), of course, Penny may finally be back – perhaps this is the series where he’d come back, either in the second game (replacing Suppan) or in the fourth game (replacing Ottavino).
Assuming July 1 as a return date, then, it would seem Ottavino is in line for at least four starts between now and then – at Arizona, vs. Oakland, then at Toronto, then back home vs. Arizona again; Suppan would be in line for three starts (vs. Seattle, at Toronto, and at Kansas City, before the July 2 start at home vs. Milwaukee). Who Penny replaces obviously would depend on how well Adam and Jeff do; the complication, of course, is who goes if they’re both doing well.
We're playing Seattle?
Would Soup be starting against them?
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I fucking hope not....
I don’t want to witness this shit live.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
It's the Mariners
They won’t score more than 2 runs off of him. So it’s a blessing and curse. 1, we get to win a game and Dave Cameron has a stroke after losing to Jeff Suppan. But the Cardinals will think Soup is good after the start so he’ll be the #1 starter.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
What's happened to figgins?
To be fair, that guy seems to be getting a little unlucky on balls in play (20% LD rate and only .267 BABIP) but yeah, that K/BB ratio is phenomenal…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:23 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly
he’ll go 5 innings, 2 ER and everyone will pronounce that Duncan has “fixed” him and Suppan will make 10 more starts, minimum, for us. Meanwhile, I’ll be vomiting every 5th day.
I suppose I'm rooting for a three inning,
five run start where we can come back and give Motte or Kmac a win.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
There's no way the Mariner's score 5 runs
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
have they ever scored five runs in a game this year?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He's been tipping his pitches
batter asks the bench what’s coming, bench guys say “some 85mph piece of shit”.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:24 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
did you make your sign yet?
remember, ESPN, and super = soup-er
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
If he pitches next wednesday (when I'm at the game)
I cannot vouch for my actions.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
at this rate
someone else will end up on the DL
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
oh, i don't want a brawl. i just want carp to pitch in arizona.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Next on Nat Geo
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 10, 2010 5:36 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
YES!!!!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 10, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
insert your own failure analysis, CG animation, eyewitness interviews
and ultra-serious narrator here.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I was at that game.
That Granny was so awesome. I can’t even tell you how loud that place got. Unreal.
If only we’d known.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 10, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll rec it
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
'Hi, I'm Mr. Heisenberg, and if you don't chew Big Red, FUCK YOU!'
He's only got one REC and it's mine!!!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 10, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
All better now!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Jun 10, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
From Goold's PD story...
“Suppan has not officially signed yet because the Cardinals have to work out some issues with the 40-man roster.”
What issues? Are they trying to make the case that Miles and Suppan should only combine to take up 1 slot? Because then I MIGHT approve of the deals. Maybe.
I could live without Norrick
never understood the (albeit marginal) prospect fasincation in a LOOGY who walks about 6 or 7 per 9 innings. As with Samuel, I think that lack of control in the mid-minors is just too big a chasm to bridge.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:25 AM EDT up reply actions
isn't the 40-man full
so they need to move someone off for suppan?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I had hoped
that was Lohse going on the 60-man, but with him, it’s still at 41.
I guess Evan MacLane or Sugar Shane gets cut.
Guys like Bradley are exactly why we can't have a pumpkin patch anymore.
that's what i thought
sugar shane isn’t, i believe, so they can move him, but i don’t think they can cut him when on disabled list, though unsure of that. of course a trade of two or three guys from the 40 might also happen.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
The thought of engineering a trade...
…to make roster spaces for Jeff Suppan makes me vomit a little. The only thing this deal had in its favor was that Suppan was a FA signing – we didn’t have to give any players up for him, regardless of level.
If this happens, that aspect’s gone.
i'm not suggesting they engineer a trade to make room for suppan
but they have likely been working on a lot of potential deals, and maybe something is close to fruition – maybe it’s even something that would keep suppan OFF the 40-man.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I posted a few days ago that a trade was coming.
I could feel it. But then we signed Suppan. I’d rather it was a trade and maybe a good one will still happen.
Regression, bitches.
You know,
if this turns out to be some sort of elaborate, Rube-Golbergian ploy to keep TLR quiet by filling an otherwise empty roster spot that with Juff Suppan, while simultaneously engineering a trade for Brian Bannister, and then immediately releasing Suppan, my faith in Mo (and, to a lesser extent, humanity) would be restored.
well, they haven't actually signed suppan yet
craig, jay, greene – any combination of these guys, and a couple more – the only rationale really to have them in the minors rather than on our bench is if the regular playing time has proven they have nothing else to prove in AAA, which would be key as far as trading them. and it’s the only way to explain some of these roster moves – well, not the only way, as insanity would also work.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
can we just start a second team
a hobby team for TLR to put all his washed out vets in and play them whenever he wants
so he stops acting stupid with the actual team and wins some games with sound managing
Yeah!
Like when you want to do two different things in a baseball video game and you just save a copy under a different name. Parallel worlds.
Regression, bitches.
so.... Suppan or Wellemeyer?
and… go.
the gun is not an option. nor is the pipe or the candlestick.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
How about heavy amounts of alcohol?
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Of those two, Suppan.
Wellemeyer, for some reason, generates incomprehensible levels of existential angst in me when I think of him on the mound for the Redbirds.
Or blame Yadi
You know, its obviously the best catcher in the leagues fault that you can’t throw a strike.
Hmmm I think Wellemeyer's probably better at this point
but it’s close. I’d say the only difference is Welly’s last competent year was 2 years ago, Suppan’s was 3. Actually, screw that, neither of them should be pitching in a major league rotation.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I've been doing a lot of thinking.
And we might as well go all in.
I think Shelby Miller will be enough to get Weaver away from the Dodgers.
I’m sure Rasmus will net us Edmonds for the remainder of the year..
Looper is free, he can come back to the pen.
Spiezio, and J-Rod are playing in an independent league. Shouldn’t be to hard to buy their contract out.
Eck is playing for a team in contention, but I’m sure Lopez and Freese will get the job done.
Now for the Hard one. Rolen. But I know Walt. And I’m sure if we eat most of Holliday’s $120 for the next seven years it will get the job done. We can work something out for duncan to fill in the left field spot.
I've been doing a lot of drinking
Looks like I’ll have to do a little more
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 10, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
i've been kind of hoping they bring edmonds back at the end of the year
that would allow jimmy to get nearly a full season of playing time, which is what he wanted, and then be on our playoff roster (if there should be one). all it would take would be for him to clear waivers.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Thanks.
That is all.
When I get bubbly I do it in moderation,
1 brew, 1 brew, I said 1 brew at a time
Go back to BCB.
That is all.
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
'Hi, I'm Mr. Heisenberg, and if you don't chew Big Red, FUCK YOU!'
not sure how it helps the brewers
you guys are still paying him.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Jun 10, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
You know, it does feels a little good to know that...
Cincinnati is paying most of Miles’ salary ($2.7mil – per B-R…really?)
Milwaukee is paying most of Suppan’s salary ($eleventy billion)
But I wish they were taking up roster space in Houston or Chicago.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
sure, just noting that it's not like we gave the brewers something like a prospect for suppan
and took on some salary.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Just a joke...
I’m not trying to start anything, I’m just saying we had better options in the minors and we wanted Suppan gone. Sorry for any negativity in my post.
When I get bubbly I do it in moderation,
1 brew, 1 brew, I said 1 brew at a time
Haha yeah
you hate us, we hate you, etc. I just wish we had your pitching staff.
When I get bubbly I do it in moderation,
1 brew, 1 brew, I said 1 brew at a time
I don't hate the Brewers.
I wish we had that one good reliever with the sick slider.
Regression, bitches.
I wish we had
one good reliever.
When I get bubbly I do it in moderation,
1 brew, 1 brew, I said 1 brew at a time
who's that?
Axford?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:29 AM EDT up reply actions
you tried to get it
maybe just picked the wrong pitchers.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
OT: To get your mind off of Suppan
and on to other world problems…but will make you laugh…maybe.
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
'Hi, I'm Mr. Heisenberg, and if you don't chew Big Red, FUCK YOU!'
by Heisenberg on Jun 10, 2010 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
This is backwards...
…perhaps intentionally.
Suppan’s peripherals with the Brewers tell the story of a guy who is getting hit a lot harder than he used to and, as a result, is also not pitching with nearly the same precision he once had.
You could argue that he’s getting hit more because he’s lost his precision.
I’d feel a lot better about him if he had a killer change-up, because that has enabled Jamie Moyer to last forever. However, Suppan is more of a command and location guy, a skill then tends to decline irreversibly.
Either way
we can agree he sucks balls, right?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We need Al Yellon to show up
to tell us that this is a good decision and that we should “give it a chance” or “at least see if it works out” in a condescending tone.
If Sooner comes here I am going to flip out, I don't even care if I get banned
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha ha
that would be epic.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions
i guess it's the grit factor
woohoo miles .
You are now blinking manually o.O
by hr on Jun 10, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I couldn’t get too bothered about Grudz. At least he’s still a decent glove at 2B, along with being a slap-hitter in the Miles mode. He’s totally lost all power, though. 30 hits this year and NOT ONE was for extra bases.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:31 AM EDT up reply actions
ex-cardinal free agents...i can't wait!
Mark Grudzielanek (40)
Braden Looper (35)
John Smoltz (43)
Kiko Calero (35)
Jason Isringhausen (37)
Russ Springer (41)
Julian Tavarez (37)
Brad Thompson (28)
You are now blinking manually o.O
by hr on Jun 10, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Soup clones
Sir Sydney
Mike Maroth
Kip Wells
Estaban Yan
Pedro Bourbon
PJ Walters
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
Oddly enough
I wouldn’t mind some of these guys. Springer as the 7th bullpen guy would be fine, Grudz>Miles, Looper likewise in the pen (and he’s probably no worse than Soup as a starter), Calero and tavarez are no worse than our worst bullpen guy.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:32 AM EDT up reply actions
'Because you know that diamonds are a girls best friend'
Clever. yawn
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
'Hi, I'm Mr. Heisenberg, and if you don't chew Big Red, FUCK YOU!'
They are everyone's best friend. Not gender exclusive. :-P
Formerly known as The_teague. F'in SBN.
'Hi, I'm Mr. Heisenberg, and if you don't chew Big Red, FUCK YOU!'
Diamonds.
She’ll pretty much have to.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:32 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Let's wait until he gives a game away
Before jumping all over him. They’ve tried their minor league options and they have all been left wanting. We’ve got nothing to lose. Miles is indefensible, I agree. But I’m willing to give Soup a look.
Let’s see if DD and Yadi can work a little magic.
The real problem is Schu. I’d like to see them do something about him. Like to see Ryan grinding it out at SS, lopez at 2B.
Just win
not disagreeing with anything necessarily
but if you are including otto in the “minor league options” category, as presumably you are, then i’d say he showed marked improvement from his first big league start to his second – remember, this is his first taste of the bigs, unlike walters or hawk. i believe he walked 5 his first start, which has always been a concern with him, but against the brewers he walked only one, and that weeks with 2 outs and first base open – runners on second and third in the 5th, before he k’d counsell on four pitches. perhaps his start is unfairly remembered because of what happened after he was pulled in the top of the sixth after braun’s grounder up the middle, when reyes came in and sucked bad. for what otto himself was actually responsible for, i thought he held his own against a pretty good lineup.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
presumably otto continues to pitch
I was thinking more of walters, hawk, etc. THe one thing I would be interested in seeing is stretching out McClellan
Just win
if they even contemplate that
they should keep salas around and send mcclellan down to get a few starts asap.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yeah Suppan hasn't given any games away yet-
oh wait that’s the reason he was released in the first place.
4/15, 4/23, 5/30
The only reason he didn’t give away more games is that he has pitched mop up duty for two months.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
In a contending year
I’d like to see Schumaker benched for Greene, tbh. At least Greene is an excellent glove at 2B, and threatens some power.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Copyright Infringement.
This joke is under copyrights held by Paulspike. Any violation of this law may result in jailtime and/or fines. You have been warned.
Here I attach the time and date as to which this joke was originally used.
The Office of Puns and Jokes appreciate your understading.
Sincerely yours,
The Office of Jokes and Puns.
Sources say…
Carp doesn’t give a fuck
I want the Walrus back…
by Paulspike on Jun 10, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I want the Walrus back...
Yeah, I was saying that just the other day.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:34 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
A dire warning!!!
Hello! I write to you from the year 2010! I don’t know how I’ve done it, but somehow I’ve connected to the internet in 2006! I have to warn you about a few terrible disasters that can be avoided if you, internet people of 2006 act before it’s too late:
1) There will be a terrible oil leak accident by British Petroleum in the year 2010 that must be avoided! This will take place in the Gulf Coast region. Please speak to a representative to have BP step up safety to prevent this horrible disaster.
2) On January 12th, 2010, there will be a devastating earthquake in Haiti that will leave over 200,000 dead! They must be warned and if possible, evacuated in advance!
Also, in baseball moves, the Cardinals should NOT let Scott Rolen be traded, as he will magically have the ability to hit the baseball again in 2010. Do NOT sign Matt Holliday, and although it seems crazy, Sign Carlos Silva.
Thank you Internet of 2006. I think my time is short. I’ll field questions if I can.
by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2010 7:13 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Does
Chris Carpenter ever give a fuck?
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm so tired of people saying McGwire took steroids
just as likely as volcanoes stopping worldwide air traffic. Will the innuendos ever stop?
Just win
Mo on KTRS
Suppan arrives in PHX tomorrow, throw bullpen session, maybe another before decision made. Results of bullpen session “not most important thing”
“legitimate interest in adding [Suppan]to roster”
“Over 40 man limit, have to make room to add Suppan”
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
jeff suppan throws a bullpen session against aaron miles
two 25th men enter, one 25th man leaves.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 10, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Can we make this a 3 man game?
Miles in the LH box, Stavinoha in the RH box and Suppan pitches.
Not afraid to nitpick
Well
If Supp throws a pitch at Miles, he’s out. He either gets hit by the pitch or a Nick Stavinoha swing
by jd is legend on Jun 10, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Catch it all...
On HBO, Hard Knocks: St. Louis.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 10, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this our 5th 25th man now?
20% of our team occupies the last roster spot!
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Miles, Stav, Hawk, Suppan
I guess I really shouldn’t think of Winn in that group . . . so we’re still at 4.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
not otto
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
not my fault you've been a ghost around this place......
The buzz around here has been dead lately.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Okay....
who gets outrighted? Latest lines:
3-1 Hawksworth
4-1 Trade of Craig/Mather/Jay/Hamilton/Norrick
4-1 Josh Kinney
4-1 Shane Robinson
6-1 Evan MacLane
10-1 Nick Stavinoha
10-1 PeeJ
15-1 Aaron Miles
DFA Miles, Call up Cox
Sugar isn't on the 60-day DL?
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
I didn't go all the way down the thread
but I didn’t see Edmonds or Smoltz mentioned. Personally I would have preferred Jimbo and Smoltzy, as opposed to Winn and Soup. (with T. Greene back up and no Miles.}
Would there have been so much outrage with Edmonds? or with Smoltz?
No, we would have absolutely loved it
Edmonds is playing great this year and Smoltz has better stuff at 43 after being retired for 6 months than Soup ever had.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm all over this
why haven’t we gone in this direction? He’s a league average starter just sitting there in free agency. Do this!
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
washburn also said that he will leave the door open for a possible midseason return.
he's mulling, anyway
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Wonder what your namesake is up to?
I bet Tewksbury could still get it up there around 70-75, and you know he’d paint the black with it. If we’re gonna go for nostalgia let’s really do this up right!
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 10, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
At what point do Mo/TLR get held accountable?
There is absolutely no baseball justificaiton for adding Aaron Miles or Jeff Suppan to this (or any) team. Mo is either a fucking idiot or he’s too willing to cave in to TLR’s desire for scrappy baseball players. Like I said earlier…here’s a list of all the 25th men on the team:
Nick Stavinoha
Aaron Miles
Jeff Suppan
Some could argue Randy Winn doesn’t need to be on the team.
When players like Stav, Miles, and Suppan are taking up ABs and IPs, that’s bad management. Whether it’s the GM or the team manager that’s making these calls, somebody’s fucking up, and they need to be held accountable.
If they don't win the division
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
Agreed...
that’s the dirty three. Winn is defensible. With a personality like TLR, I think you do not hold Mo accountable at this point. If La Russa starts making demands and ultimatums in the middle of the season, there’s nothing that can be done. Perhaps in the offseason you let him go, but once you start the year with La Russa, you’re at his mercy.
DFA Miles, Call up Cox
They put a lot of eggs in this years basket
They did what they did to get Holliday. Gave up a lot and paid a lot. I understand it, even if don’t agree with it. Doesn’t even really matter what anyone thought anyway though at this point. But does matter is being smart, and fully leveraging for results this year. And that means you just can’t go pissing around looking for nostalgia and feel good stories for 15-20% of your roster. That may be the play when these contracts are in the back end, and we have to suck it up for a bit, but can’t be doing this garbage now.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 10, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow
I really botched up the phrasing there. Need to take a deep breath….
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 10, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Maracek is awful
defending the Suppan move.
“Somebody give me another credible offer!—Not Oswalt”
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
*option - not offer
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
is making $10MM from a team in a pennant race and isn't even pitching that well
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Beane would probably fleece us again for Shelby or something
pass.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Beane might sign Mulder just to tempt them...
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
somebody in the last thread
floated Craig & Walters for either Bannister or Duke. I would pull the trigger on either one of those deals.
Bannister seems like an obvious fit with Duncan. Hell, he practically has “HELP ME OBI-WAN DUNCOBI” written on his forehead.
bannister seems like he's already his own personal duncan
nobody’s thought about his skills as a pitcher more than he has.
yeah
caught intermittent bits of him on the radio here yesterday. It was very strange to hear a big league pitcher talking about HR/FB and such. I was annoyed that I didn’t catch the whole thing, he sounds like a good interviewee.
greinke knows his fielders' uzr, park factors, etc.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah, i read something last year
where he was talking about dejesus’ fielding metrics in left, and the fact that kaufmann (or it could have been another stadium) suppressed homers to left, and he tailored his pitching around righties pulling and lefties going the other way, or something to that effect.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i would think greene would be desirable for kc
given that bannister isn’t making all that much, it would take more though. what about greene and jay – is that enough? kc could then probably deal dejesus to someone like washington for young bullpen arms. i’m not sure i’d go so far as craig in a bannister deal, but it would probably be good for craig, and bannister would already be in tow to fill penny’s spot next year.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Greene would probably be a pretty good fit in KC
he has to be better than Betancourt. I’d hate to give up on Greene though.
pretty sure they would prefer greene
and i’m not giving up on him – i’ve always been high on his talent – but if we’re not going to play him in st louis then we may as well get something for him before he rots in memphis. i think he’s much more suited to play every day, but we didn’t take that opportunity when he was up, and the timing was even right, with boog’s troubles.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
and they did just draft a shortstop
hmm, maybe we could try schu…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
it does not make sense
I guess it must mean they’re going to move an OF (presumably DeJesus, but who knows).
I would love DeJesus
shame we have no position for him.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:48 AM EDT up reply actions
so gordon is now versatile
corner infield, corner outfield – maybe we should ask for him with bannister.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'm not sure Greene is worth much in trade tbh
he’s old to still be in AAA and he’s shown nothing in the majors. I think he’s worth more to us as a backup, tbh, and it’s wholly possible we might need him at SS next year if Ryan’s as bad as he’s looked this year.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Brian Bannister
Kevin Millwood
Jeremy Guthrie
Zach Duke
Ian Snell
Jason Vargas
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd have Lugo back in a heartbeat
I was in favour of trading him but, obviously, you don’t dump a slew of middle infield guys (Lugo, Hoff, Barden) who could do a competent backup job and then go out and get aaron miles two months later.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 14, 2010 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions
From RJ
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/suppans-return/#comments
Hits the nail on the head.
Everyone take a breather and watch this highlight
Today’s Cubs lose. man I gotta figure out a way to save this and put it in my Cubs lowlights I keep on the web for all my Cub fan friends.
Does Gomez not understand how buttons work?
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD
by The Continental on Jun 11, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
anger, and sadness.
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 8:58 PM EDT reply actions
my 2 cents
this sudden urge to sign everyone else’s scrubs reminds me of the 2007 cards, who signed a lot of players (mike maroth among others).
i understand the reasons for it, but i see no sense in getting guys like miles and winn. i thought that this team wanted to try out the youth movement, and now they are confusing me because they are going to the vets that no one else wants. i feel really bad for guys like craig and jay, especially craig. if the cards aren’t going to use guys like them, they might as well trade ‘em, because it’s apparent they’re not going to use ’em.
while soup was great in the 06 playoffs, he was just ok before that. i don’t think it would matter if he got the #5 spot or walters. frankly, they’d be the same pitcher to me.
Albert's grand slam, 7/3/09
@zoomzoomj88
Boog's stache is back!
Aaron Miles, Tony? Really?
stop comparing this squad to 2007
2007 was so so much worse than this year
not just you either…. a hope to win 80 wins is way fucking worse than a playoff team easy
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on Jun 11, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven't been this mad since...
the summer of Pedro Borbon, Esteban Yan, and Brett Tomko.
DFA Miles, Call up Cox
How did Dan create those community projection databases?
I think we need a fanpost with a projection Suppan and Miles, but I don’t know how he did that. I guess we can go old school with it, but that looked like a much slicker way of doing it. Also would be interesting to poll how many of us think either, or both, will be taking up a roster spot come september callups. I’m extremely pessimistic about both questions – I think they’re both to be terrible, as they long have been, and I think they are both going to stick around a long time.
Here's my projection for Suppan and Miles
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
yeah
maybe we can just leave it at that!
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 10, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
indeed
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It's days like today that I consider not watching baseball anymore
I know that I’m not strong enough to just walk away from a sport that I care so much about but it’s hard to watch this. The level of frustration at the acquisition of Miles and Suppan and the continued roster mismanagement is just infuriating.
I just can’t come up with a rational justification for Jeff Suppan, Aaron Miles and Nick Stavinoha being on the team individually, much less collectively.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Do you know if Nick Stavinoha is out of options or not?
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 10, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Also - who gives a shit?
Below-average hitters who can’t field are dime a dozen.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 5:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
heh. Weirdest typo of the year?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 14, 2010 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions
don't worry until we actually acquire suppan
nothing is certain, there’s no contract yet, and so he’s going to throw a couple bullpen sessions so they can have a look at him. the team has interest – that’s all right now.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
My biggest worry at this point is loyatly to players of the past over the teams best interest
Will Moz have the balls to release Miles and Suppan when they eventually return to their form? Or will they stay true to old loyalties. I don’t think Moz will have a problem re-releasing Miles and Suppan but what about TLR?
that's the key point
suppose Otto is pitching better than Suppan when Penny comes back – who thinks Suppan will be DFAed? – I think they’ll say that Supp is coming along and Otto isn’t ready yet regardless of the results between now and penny’s return
we can't release suppan
as he is not under our control until he actually gets a contract and signs it. he’s not the only guy they are looking at.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i heard they were talking to Captain Freedom about coming out of retirement for one last shot
by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 10, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
let me just ask another question
why haven’t they signed him? another question: do you really think he is plan A?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah
we are about to find out in the coming months how much of this is tony’s doing and how much he has control… I think it’s pretty obvious he will want to be loyal to his vets. here’s hoping that Moz can step in and cut him off when the ship is sinking, because I will be stupefied if Miles and Suppan actually put up league average, let alone anything resembling someone that is worth signing and changing the makeup of the team for. it just strikes me as totally needless change on a team that was struggling to find some identity.
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
If Mo can trade Chris Duncan he can DFA Miles/Suppan/Stav to AA(A)
I seriously think Mo’s just keeping the peace, and when things need to be done he’ll make the necessary moves
by YesWeOquendo on Jun 10, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
I am just all riled up. First about Stav being on the team, then they brought Miles back into the fold at the expense of some excellent prospects as well as tyler greene who has been hitting really well and could platoon with boog or maybe even steal his position if he actually hits better than brendan and doesn’t make the boneheaded defensive plays he was making earlier.
and then to add insult to injury, possibly my personal favorite prospect, Jon Jay, is sent down “for more playing time” for some guy that I didn’t even remember existed named Randy Winn. and to top it all off, the worst move of all was made, signing Jeff Suppan. We are talking about a guy that I will be surprised if he gets a FIP of 5. I’m expecting mid 5s
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
jay is a fourth outfielder on a good team
could start for a lesser team, which is probably what we are hoping, that he has enough value to maybe be included in some deal to tip the balance of getting it done. i don’t really have a problem with winn – at the same price as jay, i think i’d take him. mather and craig are different, as craig has more trade value and mather might have a future in st louis, if he gets 100%.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
why not have him on the team and prove that he is a trade chip
or have him on the team just to be a great 4th outfielder. either way, he should be on the team.
miles should not be on a roster spot over either craig or mather, and mather hasn’t been good for a while.
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
i think he's shown he can be a fouth outfielder
a lot of this is like the draft – you are buying and selling potential. sometimes you might want the other guy to gamble on the potential, lest you overexpose someone and they lose all value.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
ah
I see your point… I wasn’t “getting it” at first lol
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
he's never going to get an everyday opportunity here
if someone wants to buy on him as a potential everyday outfielder, a team with a need, then he’s worth more to trade. otherwise, we can always bring him back, though there is still mather and craig, and they all have their pluses and minuses.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I just don't get the point of signing winn when jay is probably the better player
to keep it simple
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
because they are looking for a pitcher
i think jay and winn are basically equal right now, and the same price, so you don’t really lose anything with winn if jay could be packaged in a deal – just because they might be equal producers doesn’t mean they have the same trade value, because of age. we can’t trade winn, but he was free and allows us to trade jay without losing any production from the bench, or a very slight bit if any.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think people also ignore the possibility that Winn might just be better
yeah, I agree, based on this season he’s not, but he’s only 18 months removed from a 5-WAR season, was more or less average last year in reduced playing time, and I think he legitimately has more pop than Jay and is possibly a better baserunner.
Jay was very lucky when he us up on balls-in-play too. I like Jay and I think he’s an elite defender but realistically he’s going to be a poor hitter at the major league level. I don’t think he walked once when he up, and his peripheral stats in the high minors don’t suggest he’ll be much more than a marginal slap-hitter who’ll sometimes show some gap power. When that’s combined with an excellent glove it’s a decent, fringey player, but if the role of that roster spot is primarily as a pinch-hitter and once-a-week Rasmus fill-in, I wonder if Winn is not actually legitimately better.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions
yea
i think that was discussed in the winn thread
by guillermozeliak on Jun 11, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Morning, sorry to tell you that thinking of Soup as a Cards pitcher caused me to hurl last night Tom Yon Kum and Singhas.
Just thought that Tony’s salvation platoon of Miles and Winn needed additional kettle bell ringers to upgrade to full Salvation Army status.
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
ha, bruce chen started for the royals tonite
still pitching in the 7th and leading minny 8-1. maybe we should look at him.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Hey cardball,
I heard back from my nephew. He’s playing for the Owensboro Oilers in the KIT wooden bat league. I guess he got roughed up some at first but says that it’s starting to get better. They’re playing ball everyday which is something he’s not used to either.lol Seems to like it though.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 11, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
cool
do they find these guys families to stay with? and how long is the season – he there a month or two, three?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yeah, he's living with a family down there.
It’s must be 2 months. 3 months would take them into the start of school.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 11, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I have nothing to say.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Except,
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
...
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jun 10, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
That has avocado potential...
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
it was vexed....
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Jun 10, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
lol, I forgot I did that.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
fuck.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD
by The Continental on Jun 10, 2010 11:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
danup, maybe you should update this post
as the post-dispatch obviously jumped the gun. there has been no signing of suppan. it is being considered, and many may think it inevitable, but it is misleading to report it a done deal.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
ha, rondo picks kobe
game-time.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Man Rondo is fast.
His speed is ridiculous.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
he's probably my favorite nba player, even if just for his name
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
To me, can't beat Steve Nash.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
i enjoy both of them
one on offense, one on defense. but name-wise, rondo wins
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
RON-DOOOOOOOOOOO
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
ditched freeze for luddy?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I had enough of the steely eyed glare every time I posted
I think most would agree?
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
i like the luddy
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
listening to mo's interview on bernie's show,
he makes a good point. who else is there? pedro, et al would take long enough to condition that we might as well just wait until penny comes back. and trades definitely take time, especially this early in the season and we need help right now. like for the next couple of weeks. the real question is whether or not suppan can be better than walters or anyone else that’s available from the farm. i guess it doesn’t matter a whole lot, though. if mo put them on the roster, tony wouldn’t play them.
i don’t remember who here pointed it out from that interview, but i, also, definitely read between the lines that there’s a bit of a divide between the front office and the clubhouse as to what’s available in memphis. mo’s quote was something like, “now, you have to remember that i’m a big proponent of the youth, but when the guys are on the roster and aren’t getting played, it comes to the point where it would be better for them to go to memphis and get regular playing time.” or something. basically, “i can only put them on the roster. i can’t make tony play them.”
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I just don't see why they didn't go with 4 starters for a bit with Ottavino as 4th starter
but I guess that would be too risky. I just hope that Ottavino doesn’t get a short stint unless he is unforeseeably awful. (spell check is saying I made up a word, but IDGAF)
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
This is all fine and dandy if we kick Supp back to the curb when Penny gets healthy
I’ll bet you $20 that doesn’t happen
by jd is legend on Jun 11, 2010 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I bet we will if Ottavino is pitching well
I have a theory that Mo only appeases Tony on the little things (Miles vs. Greene, Soup vs. Walters/Hawk/Lynn, Stav vs. Craig), and while they may cost the team value and infurriate us they really don’t play a huge role in the eventual outcome in the season. They allow Tony to have his guys and do his job, which in turn allows Mo and the rest of the FO to make decisions when it really counts. That would explain the tremendous success of Tony La Russa run teams despite his obviously misguided player preferences.
Can you think of an important roster decision that Tony has influenced?
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
But that was as much about his contract/injury status as anything
It was viewed as an even trade at the time.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Mo did a good job with it
But his hand was clearly forced.
Mo’s a pretty smart guy. I’m sure Miles isn’t in his top 5 or so options to fill a spot. I’m sure he’d rather go with Greene, for example. I don’t think he’d be reaching out to Suppan just yet if it were purely his call either. So I guess you’re probably on to something there. Probably Winn was based off what the guys in uniforms are telling him too, but I think it’s a reasonably good move in that case.
I still consider it to be pretty important once you start talking about multiple roster spots, especially considering how the bench is used. Now we’re talking about a guy starting every 5th day too. I’m done using TLR as a crutch to prop up Mozeliak’s moves. Not saying Mo is incompetent or that he doesn’t have his reasons, but if he lets TLR and Duncan persuade him to make these kind of moves every week then ultimately that’s on him. Let Duncan whine to Strauss off the record every week or so. We’re too heavily invested in this season to screw this up, whether it is one of our four (and growing!) 25th men or not.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 11, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
holliday's trade/contract
but i don’t think either are necessarily bad yet
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
well, we know tony wanted the rolen and holliday deals
but those are pretty big. he may have lobbied, but to say he influenced mo…i don’t know. i think mo makes his own decisions on those, because it’s his ass on the line. the biggest thing i think tony has gotten was big mac, and that’s not a roster move. maybe tony wanted glaus on last year’s postseason roster, i don’t know, but it wasn’t that big a deal.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yeah, agreed
also, we have a LOT of off-days this month (IMO Hawk and Walters shouldn’t have pitched this week, as they pitched after an off-day and we could’ve just thrown out Waino/Carp on regular rest). Washburn/Smoltz/Pedro won’t be in shape. And, like you said, trades are not necessarily possible in the very short term, unless we want to get fleeced by someone.
Also, he’s about the same pitcher as Hawksworth/Walters. I don’t like it if he takes playing time away from Ottavino, and I don’t like it unless TLR uses EVERY possible off-day to minimise his appearances, but otherwise it’s just a lateral move IMO. Perhaps it’s symptomatic of a wider problem (I think it is) but realistically it’s shit pitcher vs shit pitcher.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:04 AM EDT up reply actions
so, I needed some cheering up, and I found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oHQbknUUlM
(it worked)
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:23 AM EDT reply actions
vibraphones are one of my favorite instruments
and a battle of the vibes is jawdropping. awe inspiring, even.
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
also, I feel like I missed out on a lot of great live music in the 60s and 70s
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
so, I needed some cheering up, and I found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oHQbknUUlM
(it worked)
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:23 AM EDT reply actions
sbn'd
it’s good enough to be posted twice though
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
sorry, brace yourselves for profanity
I’m the most sanguine, optimistic fan in the world, but I can’t take it anymore, having just read that we signed Suppan (if that’s true):
Fuck this goddamn FO, you idiot paragons of fucking incompetence, fuck you to baseball hell. Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck. And Holliday: Fuck you Matt Holliday and your 120 million loafers made of gophers, hit a GD homerun you twat.
by mattyp on Jun 11, 2010 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
man
the dude got ripped off. i bet that loafers made out of gophers would cost way less than $120 million to produce
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
close to reccing that for "twat".
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I like that
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
God I hope Suppan isn't pitching Tuesday.
I’m going to my first Cards game in 5 years and I’m not sure I can handle that, even against a AAAA offense like the Mariners.
by mattisnotfrench on Jun 11, 2010 12:49 AM EDT reply actions
Also, we're missing both Cliff Lee and Felix Hernandez in that series.
I’m sure we’ll get shut out by one of their stiffs.
by mattisnotfrench on Jun 11, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
is bedard still out?
i’d like to miss him.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think so.
The matchups:
Ian Snell® vs. A.D.A.M.
Ryan Rowland-Smith (L) vs. Undecided (probably Suppan)
Jason Vargas (L) vs. Adam Ottavino
Two lefties. Goddamnit.
by mattisnotfrench on Jun 11, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but are literally worse than suppan
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Vargas has pitched OK so far this year
his K/BB is pretty OK for a back of rotation guy, although he seems to be a big flyball guy (not so good if you’re giving up a lot of balls in play).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions
They have like Ryan Rowland Smith and Doug Fistintheasshole
We’ll do fine
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Fister is injured atm with shoulder fatigue.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
although
felix did get shelled recently for like 8+….i guess it does happen case in point wainwright (not to the extent)
by guillermozeliak on Jun 11, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
huh, welly was mowing the reds down today
had to leave the game with a four-run lead when he got injured running to first.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
So I'm working on a project right now that neccesitates me watching all of Waino's starts this year and charting the catcher glove location
Right now I’m at the beginning of the year so I don’t remember the outcomes of the game. It’s like wathchign a new game!
are you actually trying to quantify control?
that would be really useful, but do you have ideas about how to do it on a large scale to make it easy to measure every pitcher?
what we really need is catcher’s mitt f/x
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I'm trying to do two things
1) Quantify Wainwright’s control
2) Using that info, predict the best place for him to aim his pitches
Right now to quantify control I’m breaking the strikezone into 9 zones and marking which the catcher put his glove in. It’s not a super precise method, but it’s pretty easy to do and has a nice balance between accuracy and quickness.
I agree on the catcher’s mitt f/x. Doesn’t even seem that hard to do.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions
although shit this is hard with the camera angles
Tell me, this pitch looks middle away to me. what do you think?
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
glove location?
how do you number them – is that zone 4?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I don't number them
I’m just qualitatively saying:
left-down
left-middle
left-up
center-down
center-midde
center-up
right-down
right-middle
right-up
So I have one column h_zone, one column v_zone in my spreadsheet. Later I’ll convert those to values to compare with Pitch f/x.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Low and away (at the knees)
What do you do for his sick curveball? I would guess Yadi’s target is where Adam starts the throw, but it obviously ends up much lower. At least, that’s what I did when I threw my curveball/slider thingy in little league. Is this what pros do?
by jd is legend on Jun 11, 2010 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea
What do you think I should do?
Should I adjust the Pitch f/x location values to be at the glove position, or the front of the plate. In other words, is Wainwright trying to hit Yadi’s glove or his he trying to throw it at the same vertical location as his glove but at the plate.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
yep
I’m just going to spend a lot of time on the first game just to establish what I need to do. Then it should be a breeze.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions
i think he's trying to hit yadi's glove
you can’t really visualize the other way as a pitcher, but you can release the ball so as to hit the target. of course that would be different if he’s intentionally bouncing one – are you assuming he is trying to throw strikes every pitch (this i think is key)?
also, fwiw (probably nothing for your project), with the fastball he would be focused on not just the glove, or the pocket, but on one half of the glove – if he’s coming in, he wouldn’t want to miss over the plate, and the same if he’s going away.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Well I'm not assuming he's trying to throw strikes every pitch
I’m assuming he’s trying to hit the glove. Wouldn’t Yadi put the glove out of the strike zone if that’s where he wanted it?
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, ok
i thought your nine zones were all within the strike zone.
i guess the only thing then would be when yadi taps the glove face-down in the dirt if he wants the curve in the dirt, but then his target will usually be just below knee level, not actually in the dirt. and if he raises up and wants a fastball high, it’s not supposed to be a strike, so it shouldn’t matter too much if waino misses the glove so long as the pitch is high – i guess i’m saying precision matters more when he is trying to throw a strike or paint, and less if it’s more or less a waste pitch, and to really judge his control you might just as well throw those few out.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'm probably going to take a different tact than the nine zones
As those aren’t precise enough. I’ll be treating each pitch type differently, and I’ll probably throw out the waste pitches like you say.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions
it's a cool idea
i wonder how much a catcher exaggerates where he wants a pitch or how much he puts the glove exactly where he wants it
it would be pretty cool to find out to what parts of the plate a pitcher is most accurate
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
yep, there's a bunch of questions
just gotta be able to collect all of the data first.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
there's a lot of variables to try and sort through
i’m interested to see what you come up with
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
what do you mean?
he’s calling the pitches. other than the odd mix up. i doubt it would be much of an issue
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
damn panda
missed the squeeze sign in the 7th to put them up 7-4. runner had no chance. reds come back to win.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
beltre lead the majors at third in uzr
he also leads the majors in errors with 11.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i don't know about that
with the way i’ve seen scoring this year, seems everything is a hit and nothing an error anymore. besides, what if they were predominantly throwing errors (i have no idea)?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i take it that's how you are watching all waino's games?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
you're using the inning jump i assume
what’s the main issue with mlb.tv?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'm not doing the inning jump, i'm just dragging the bar
the issues is that it keeps blacking out at random points which is making me miss pitches. I missed rolen’s entire at bat!
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I've kept my mouth closed about all this player movement too long, and I feel like I need to say it.
I don’t think Mo is the problem….I truly feel like LaRussa is. Don’t get me wrong, the LaRussa era Cardinals are the reason I’m a baseball fan. The reason I’m a Cardinals fan… But I would LOVE to see Oquendo get the reins at running the squad and not pushing around the GM with his high-and-mighty genius.
Mo, I don’t approve of the signings of Miles and Suppan. Winn, I can come to accept.
Tony, stop bitchin’ about the squad you have and make use of it. There’s talent in the minors, almost all of whom can out-perform Miles.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
Excellent analysis IMO Dan
Suppan adds precisely nothing, but, unlike Aaron Miles, he’s not taking opportunities away from a better player. Alas, PJ and Hawksworth are not going to be major league quality pitchers, Lynn should definitely not be exposed to major league pitching when he’s struggled so far at AAA. MacLane is basically Suppan, but from the left-hand side (which actually, I suppose, means he might be a slight notch better in the majors but he could also be something of a soft-tossing, hard-hit disaster).
Suppan sucks but so do our other current 5th starter options. I’m kinda hoping (in a way) he gets hammered so we actually go out and get someone competent like Millwood, Bannister or Duke. I suppose it’s not implausible he still might have a 1.5 WAR season in the tank, under Duncan, but I really doubt it.
The only big downside I could see here would be Soup taking starts away from Ottavino (who is, I think, better than Suppan at this point), and the fact that we didn’t really NEED a 5th starter for a while – we can just run with the 3 main guys plus Ottavino and use the fact we have 3 or 4 offdays in a month to reset the rotation. I think if we were using the offdays to start the other four on regular rest, Walters/MacLane/Hawk/whoever would only have had to make about 2 starts before Penny’s liable to be back.
So, in summary – meh.
Still bitching to contact.
were you watching that "double" luddy hit to him
i don’t know what’s with errors this year, but they don’t seem to be handed out much. that clip posted above of nady throwing the ball away, although it ended the game, wasn’t the worst play the cubs made all day, but on the other nobody was charged an error:
the cubs had fielder trapped between first and second, couldn’t run the big fella down, and while that was going on weeks broke for home, so they threw home and got him in a rundown, but he scored when tracy bounced the throw home to soto who couldn’t catch it and got popped by weeks, yet nobody got an error on two botched rundowns.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
eh, i lied - they later gave tracy an error i see
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
it was wainwright's second start of the season, 1st inning
lee picks up the ball as Skip is just about to round 3rd and doesn’t even throw home. they guy luddy in a run down and pujols goes to second.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 5:02 AM EDT up reply actions
haha
i remember that play. luddy took a beating in the game thread, iirc.
the waino game the other night, did you have a good view of the ball hit past pujols – forget who hit it, but albert just absolutely missed it and the batter got a hit. not sure if any runs were scored that inning, but at the time there was a guy on first and it looked to be a fairly routine 3-6 dp, at least as routine as that can be.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yep, there were so many close plays in the game
A friend called me up in the 8th inning to tell me that the pitch to Rasmus was high. The Yadi double. Oh god, that goddamn game. I’m pretty sure some of the dodgers fans wanted to beat me up.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 5:14 AM EDT up reply actions
the pitch to rasmus you never see called a strike
it was higher than two consecutive balls called on manny. and i believe that colby had a full count.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yep, it was an excelletn at bat from Rasmus (per usual)
And he got hosed on a pitch that’s called a ball for everyone else (per usual). Dude’s numbers would be off the chart this year if he was getting a fair strike zone.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions
btw, this is suprisingly easy using the Cardinals home games because of how centered the camera is
I’ll send you over my screen shots sometime later.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Yadi never sets up high for wainwright...
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 5:20 AM EDT up reply actions
and wainwright has really, really good command
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 5:21 AM EDT up reply actions
the homer manny hit was right on target, iirc
low and away, but manny being manny being vlad, he put a good swing on it.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yadi sets up right down the middle on three straight pitches to Wandy
He gets single on the last one. Goddmanit Waino you cocky basterd.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 6:05 AM EDT up reply actions
question -
does he for anyone? Might be more a yadi thing than a waino thing. I think catchers in general don’t hold the glove clearly “high” for a high fastball call. Maybe it’s easier to go up than down.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:12 AM EDT up reply actions
idk, i've only looked at wainwright so far
I know I remember him setting up high for Motte or the guys with the fastballs.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 6:13 AM EDT up reply actions
most come out of their crouch and are nearly standing
when they want those high heaters for balls that might be chased. not sure how often it would happen for waino, though, when he’s usually around 92.
btw, speaking of high heat, boggs has looked really filthy a few times with the heat and slider.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yeah
I really, really like Boggs in the pen. i suspect I’ve probably (by random chance) only seen some of his best appearances, though.
I actually like what I’ve seen of Hawk from the pen too. There was a point about a month ago where’d I have considered giving him some 8th innings, but he’s obviously been appalling since then.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 7:00 AM EDT up reply actions
And Houston will be paying him for another 4 years
giggle.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
It's a good thing
The Cubs are playing…well like the Cubs and the Reds are bound to hit a wall at some point (one would think) or I would think we are in serious jeopardy of not making the playoffs. But I have to say it….the team the way it is now would be out in the first round against any of the other NL division leaders. Not a team with Suppan in the rotation and Miles playing SS or 3rd every other game.
We better hope Penny comes back soon and is effective and Holliday starts to hit with runners on or this is going to be a waste of a season that was once promising.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
Uhhhh
“Not a team with Suppan in the rotation and Miles playing SS or 3rd every other game.”
Precisely. They wouldn’t be playing if we didn’t have injuries. So it doesn’t really matter unless Freese or Penny’s injury is worse than we suspect.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Wainwright's fastball and curveball command are outstanding
his changeup’s isn’t very good and I think he underestimates the movement on his slider.
i think it'd be badass if waino was able to add a splitter
and just ditch the change.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
His change has pretty good tail on it, he just leaves it up too much
A splitter is harder to control right?
by vivaelpujols on Jun 11, 2010 6:10 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i'd say that's right
but the thing with the split is, a good one is never a called strike anyway, they just can’t lay off it. plus, it’s equally effective against righties and lefties.
penny had one game where it was just filthy. i think it was being debated here, or somewhere, whether it was a split/forkball or change, but i had the other team’s broadcast, and i remember one of the announcers discussing his chat with penny that day, and penny said it was a splitter.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
There's a physical issue, though
you need long fingers and a firm grip to throw it, a lot of guys just physically can’t do it.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 7:01 AM EDT up reply actions
definitely
i’m sort of assuming with waino’s height and build he has long fingers and all, but i don’t know of course. i’d think he has a pretty good grip that benefits his curveball.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
after the finger injury, he's had to work on strengthening
no idea on if other factors like age and strain affect ceiling
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I would gladly build a team around Ryan Ludwick.
teams build around more awful players.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
unfortunately it's probably a Pujols or Luddy situation
if we sign Luddy though we will have more $ for other players too. kind of a win/win situation to me (except I don’t want to lose either player)
"having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan.... let that settle in" -prophetjohn
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 11, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
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