Dodgers v. Cardinals: [Another] Series to Forget
by DanUpBaby on Jun 10, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
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Sometimes fans of other sports are confused when I tell them I enjoy how long the baseball season is and, indeed, enjoy it more than the playoffs. I would like to show them Yadier Molina's ground-rule double—and the way, particularly, my face changed in the time between it falling between two outfielders and landing in the stands—and ask them whether they'd rather brood over that for a week, or a month, or a season, or one boring off-day. (And it will be boring. Don't ask me how I know.)
Part of the reason Matt Holliday's unfortunate demonstration of athletic cups was so heartbreaking is that it doesn't happen every single year, over the course of the playoffs and most of the regular season. Baseball offers an astounding numbers of chances at redemption. A team can look as terrible as the Cardinals-sans-Ludwick-and-Carpenter did for three games against the Dodgers, but it's not going to cost them a tenth of their season like a bad week would in football. They won't have to bench Albert Pujols or fire Tony La Russa (though they will, for some reason, have to play Aaron Miles on a team with a shortstop who [for all his faults this year] hits as well as Aaron Miles and another who hits and fields shortstop like a third baseman.)
We can still pass the blame around, though—why not? I loved, as someone who enjoys a good hackneyed film plot, to see Albert just barely take the same slider with which Jonathan Broxton had retired him the night before. I mentioned this in the game thread—at that moment in Baseball Movie we get a close-up of Albert's face doing the creepy Nike mask commercial smirk, then a matching shot of Broxton widening his eyes and gulping theatrically, and then the Cardinals avenge their defeat with a long homer or a run manufactured out of melted-down outs and teamwork. But that was Albert's only hit in the series, and the Cardinals could have used the newly unslumped version in the games that were close.
As for the games that weren't close, that is in part on the team's worst pitchers—P.J. Walters is not here to be kicked around, anymore, so the onus is on longtime getupbaby hero Blake Hawksworth—but this series's bizarre bullpen start is also the fault of the guy who called for it. Tony La Russa had other options, namely the pitcher on his list who was actually stretched out to be a starter, and if he did anything to attempt to ameliorate the Cardinals' short term lack of a fifth starter it made an unlikely win less likely still.
His decision yesterday to start Aaron Miles at third, Felipe Lopez at short, and Skip Schumaker at second—against Clayton Kershaw, Brendan Ryan on the bench et cetera—was just wrong. That's what it comes down to: playing Aaron Miles is incorrect, and Tony La Russa should stop doing things that are so clearly incorrect.
The Cardinals' terrible performance—managerially, offensively, defensively—was frustrating, but it wasn't heartstopping. That's why I'm glad they play every day for months.
As for the Cardinals' second day decision to take a flier on Austin Wilson—fantastic. When he doesn't sign I will be disappointed, and that will suck, but nearly as I can in the tradition of the thing I said one jump ago, it will just be one day of hurt feelings and misdirected Stanford anger in exchange for a season's worth of good feelings about the Cardinals braintrust. These guys are willing to take chances, and the chances they take are pretty good when they aren't Kyle Lohse-shaped.
I like to see the Cardinals take big swings on international signings; I like to see them take a twelfth round pick (admittedly one round removed from the one that turned into Albert Pujols) of dubious value and turn it into a bargaining chit with their first round pick and a lottery ticket with outstanding power potential. I'm not going to say that this is necessarily the right way to look at the draft; in fact, I think that my viewpoint is distorted significantly by how little I know about amateur baseball players. But having admitted my ignorance, all there is for me to say is that the braintrust's occasional trips outside of established draft protocol make me a happy Cardinals fan.
So SIGN AUSTIN WILSON, or don't. It was the principle of the thing, anyway.
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TLR
Seems like he’s trying anything to get some production. I too have questioned a lot of his moves this year, and he seems more willing to give up on games and save bullpen arms for tomorrow than in seasons past, but the real problem lies with Skip, Ryan, Holliday, and the strikeouts throughout the lineup. They don’t move runners up, the baserunning is poor, and the plate discipline is too often nonexistent. Skip has got to go to the bench and just spot start until he resembles the hitter he’s been in the past. Start Lopez at 2B and Ryan at ss regularly. At least Ryan gives you a plus defender when he’s not hitting.
by vinniefromjersey on Jun 10, 2010 6:43 AM EDT reply actions
Actually,
the point is that it scarcely matters how badly Holliday, Rasmus, Skip, and Ryan look- they’re still far better choices to start over Aaron Miles and Randy Winn.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
with colby hurt
would it have been better to start ludwick at CF and put stavinoha in RF? i’m asking this seriously, because without mather with the big club, who else plays CF? its almost like they knew rasmus would get hurt…
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
i was very used to
skip always getting himself on base. or at least more times than none. what the hell happened to that skip?
So talking to some pirates fans
And they seem to think Duke is likely to get moved this year. And they think a package of Allen Craig and PJ Walters could get him. Is that something we should be interested in?
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
by mob16151 on Jun 10, 2010 6:44 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think I'd probably consider doing that
I like Craig a lot, but Duke is reasonably solid and has got one year of arby left. I bet we could extend him for another 2 years for $10m or so total (he signed a 1-year, $4.3m deal this year, avoiding the 2nd year of arby). He solves the 5th starter problem pretty competently.
Terrible K rate, but his control with his nibbly stuff is good (low walkrate) and he’s been pretty good at getting groundballs. I wonder if Duncan can get him to just raise that GB% a notch (from 50% to 55 or so) if he won’t be one of the better 5th starters in the league.
Brian Bannister does the same job from the right-hand side and I bet we could get him for a similar package. He’s also only in his 2nd year of arbitration and is being paid less than Duke, so he would be my preference if we’re selling off the Craigmeister. Craig plus, I dunno, Nieto or Adron Chambers or something, KC have got to consider that pretty strongly.
I would like either of those guys. I think Millwood is too expensive (dollars-wise, though he’s a slightly better pitcher than those other two and might not even cost as much as Allen Craig if we eat all the rest of his salary, which is 6 or 7m admittedly), and I want nothing to do with Jeff Suppan.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 7:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Amazing that you posted such an intro
when all last night all I could tell myself is “It’s a long season, we have some injury problems.” On repeat like a drunk… oh wait, that kinda makes sense…
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all.
-- Earl Weaver
To be fair to TLR/Miles
he DID go 2-for-4 yesterday, which was better than a whole heap of other guys. The decision to start Schu against a lefty (3 PAs, 3 K’s) is ALWAYS horrible, though. If Boog is healthy he has to start this game. Otherwise, Greene has to be up. The lineup, as you eloquently put it, yesterday was just WRONG. You can’t even make a cogent argument that starting 3 bad infielders side-by-side, 2 of whom suck at hitting LHPs, is defensible when we simply have better options.
Also, I know he’s hurt, but I am slightly concerned about Winn taking starts away from Rasmus in the OF. Simply put, Colby should be starting 6 games a week (minimum) and only sitting against tough lefties maybe once in a while (though, to be fair, a start against Kershw ia exactly the time to do it). Winn, notably, is a better hitter from the right-hand side, so I don’t really think that starting him over Rasmus against lefties is particularly justified anyhow.
My god, did that lineup suck. This is what happens when you punt the 23rd, 24th AND 25th roster spots, don’t put injured players on the DL, and have a bunch of guys who can’t hit lefties. Putrid. Waino chose about the worst game of the year to have a crappy start, too…
Still bitching to contact.
Yep
I think Miles is better against lefties than Skip. It should have been him at second, Boog at short and Flopex at third.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
I meant Winn is better from the left-hand side against right handed pitchers.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I predict this will be linked in someone's sig by day's end:
http://espn.go.com/blog/sportscenter/post/_/id/58085/sports-science-dive-or-run-past-first-base
The original airing on BBTN did at the very least mention that avoiding the tag was a possible reason.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Jun 10, 2010 7:54 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It's the only reason, isn't it?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
stop making sense
1) of course – we all knew this
2) I really liked the kid thye used in the video – good speed, good form, and a willingness to get dirty for science
3) I want to make Skip repeat his process 3,000 times or until he learns better, whichever is more, to make up for all the grief he has given me with his dumbass headfirst to first slides.
I'm willing to get dirty for a lot less.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
nope, i said it.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Dammit, sliding is effective if and ONLY if your hand touching the base is the FIRST part of contact with the ground.
…you get that lunge, but it’s only effective if you don’t induce any unnecessary friction with the ground.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
Oh wait, that's pretty much what this video said....
…whoops
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
Wanted: MIFs
Pick one two of the current three four (personally I’ll take Lopex & Boog), and find replacements for the other two. We can’t continue to trot out MIF who fail both to hit and field.
T. Greene and Delasco could not be worse. Or put together a trade package (Eckstein, K. Johnson, Uggla?)
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
If Lopez and Boog play every day that's fine
Greene to back them up, and schumaker off the bench. If schu heats up again he can play some 2B against righties. Miles has no business being there and we need someone up who can either play 2B (Greene) or play 3B and hit (hmmm, Craig wouldn’t be that bad for a week) if Freese is out for any period of time. Given our miserable bench, I really think Freese should’ve maybe been DLed (or, at least, we should’ve brought up someone else who could play).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I love that I only watched about 5 innings of this debacle of a series...
That lineup is absolutely infuriating… Now 15-19 after starting 18-8. Aaron Miles has 10 plate appearances and 2 starts in 7 games since being called up. If he’s on the roster all summer, my enjoyment of the 2010 season will be significantly diminshed.
DFA Miles, Call up Cox
I watched zero innings.
I know that makes me a bad fan and all, but, with Colby and Freese injured, I could not bring myself to watch. Monday, I followed the draft closely. Tuesday, I watched the NBA Finals and did some work. Last night, I watched the Stanley Cup and went to bed. On west coast trips, I generally only ever watch one entire game of the series anyway, what with work and all, but this one, with promises of a Hawk-Peej WonderGame, MOAR Grit, and Randy Winn, I passed. It would be too frustrating. This series was like returning to the scene of the crime that was the NLDS and getting mugged again.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah
I’ve followed the draft a lot but basically haven’t watched an inning of baseball since about friday, I think. Maybe Saturday.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Watching Skip struggle is painful
I fear that this may be a season long slump. Too many shattered bats and flailing strikeouts. Is his trying to pull the ball?
I noticed that Grudzielanek had been released. Does he have anything left? I enjoyed seeing him play here in 2005.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
He was about average last year, and is still a solid defender
He’s done kinda OK this year but the knock must be that he’s lost any semblance of any power he might’ve had – 30 hits this year, and EVERY ONE has been a single. That said, he still looks like a competent backup 2B, if nothing else, and is probably better than skip right now. I’d prefer to see Greene given a lengthy run in the team, but Grudz would be fine.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
why the hatred for super miles?
Sure, he isn’t gonna set the world on fire, but damn skip and ryan suck this year. Our middle infield has been a black hole of production and when your leadoff hitter is a MIF’er then you just aren’t gonna score runs. We’ve needed a leadoff man ever since eck left and we still haven’t got one (felipe lopz, really?)
Felipe Lopez is a very good player.
The crazy thing about last night was the infield arrangement more than its personnel. Skip sucks badly against lefties and is mediocre on defense, Miles sucks at 3B, Lopez sucks at SS, and Ryan was on the bench. A defensible infield would have been Lopez- 3B, Ryan SS, and Miles 2B, yet Miles is also not a good hitter against lefties. In AAA we have a guy named Tyler Greene, who is good at defense and has some offensive strengths, one of them being that he’s not terrible against lefties. If we keep Miles around to be our second best switch hitting MI backup who sucks at defense, why not just have Greene on the roster to platoon with Skip? Or why not call up Allen Craig to get some time at 3B, start Boog full time at SS, have Skip play 2B against righties, and Lopez play 2B against lefties along with some 3B against righties?
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
oh and just to clarify
I wasn’t saying felipe lopez is a bad player, on the contrary I like him as a super utility man. But as a lead-off hitter? Yeah, he’s a bad lead-off hitter.
by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2010 9:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
TBH I kinda agree with that
although I should point out there really aren’t many good lead off hitters in the league.
If you look at league-wide OBP from the #1 hole, it’s surprisingly bad. I don’t think it’s actually much higher than average (IIRC) quite often, though someone else might have a proper figure, so Lopez, with his average OBP and a bit of pop actually isn’t that bad, considering. He’s definitely a better option than Boog (who lead off against lefties for much of 2009).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Lopez.
His OBP is .359 and he has a 12% walk rate. The MLB average OBP for leadoff hitters is .330. If Lopez had only ever batted leadoff, his OBP would rank fith in all of baseball. That is a pretty good lead-off guy, IMO.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, I don't see the hatred for Floppy at leadoff.
At SS, sure, he sucks. But that’s a matter of positioning, not batting order.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
exactly. and its not his fault TLR is hell bent on putting the worst possible lineup on the field
when i saw last night’s lineup, i wondered if he lost a bet.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
not the worst possible
close but not the worst
in all fairness, if waino were pitching like himself we would have actually won that one. thanks only to RFL but still..
That's just not true.
From BR.
Flippy was arguably the best lead off hitter in the majors last year. He lead off 140 games, put up .344/.400/.492 with an sOPS+ of 141. He needs to lead off as much as possible.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Miles should never play on the left side of the field
Wainwright had a double play ball roll right by miles that ended up being two runs. It was hit only 3 feet from where he was standing to begin with. Freese would have had the DP and Lopez would of at least had an out.
Very, very true.
Miles should not be allowed to play anywhere but second base, and he probably shouldn’t even be allowed to play there. Sure, he makes diving plays on grounders that an average second baseman would not have to dive for, but, still, is that a reason to play a horrendous fielder in the field? Despite TLR’s delusions, Miles has no “versatility” at all.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i pray that they're only playing miles
so that maybe he can start looking good to someone enough to get a trade out of it
but doubtful
utterly implausible
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No other franchise in Major League Baseball wants Aaron Miles.
He has been one of the five worst players in the big-leagues for two straight seasons and was DFA’d by two clubs within the last half-year. TLR may literally be the only person in baseball who wants Aaron Miles on his team because every other individual looks at Aaron Miles and sees a player who cannot run the bases very well, cannot field well at all, and cannot hit.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
why would anyone trade for aaron miles?
He’s been available no less than 3 times already this year and no one but the cardinals seem to want him so there’s just no way he’s getting traded. He’s here to stay.
i just wonder
with a FO that seems to be actually pretty savvy
why do we still have Miles around?
it’s not all TLR
My assumption
TLR says “I want Miles”, Mozeliak says “Well, he’s the 25th guy on the roster, at worst, so it can’t do much harm, and we’ll just stick him in AA anyway” and accedes to his demand.
Then, of course, he gets called up. You can’t put it all on TLR but a) TLR is a massive Miles fan and it’s been reported from several sources he was instrumental in pushing for him to be signed and b) TLR reputedly has more pull in terms of front office decisions than ANY other manager in baseball – he pulled for Holliday for the best part of two years and, guess what, we traded for Holliday then signed him to the biggest deal in franchise history. I blame Mozeliak too, but if it wasn’t for TLR’s Miles mancrush there’s no way he was signed in the first place IMO.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how things would have been different for the Cardinals
if Jim Leyland could have been wooed away from the Pirates after the 1995 season.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
they would have lost in 6 games
to the TLR coached Detroit Tigers in the 2006 world series
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
why the hatred for super miles?
I think we hate the process, rather than the guy. Miles has been literally pretty much the worst player in MLB for the last 2 seasons, and was picked up to go to our bench after three fairly mediocre teams (Cubs, Oakland, Reds) decided he wasn’t good enough to be in the majors anymore (he’s 32 and looks to be falling off a cliff, and was never more than a mediocre backup guy anyway). We have an ex-1st round draft pick who is a very good defensive 2nd baseman in AAA tearing the cover off the ball (Tyler Greene), and we dumped a LOT of not-great-but-palatable middle infield options over the course of this year like Hoffpauir (did OK last year, decent hitter), Lugo (ditto) and Brian Barden.
People have concluded (not unreasonably, given media statements on the matter) that LaRussa has pushed for Miles to be on the roster because he likes him, rather than because he is the best option, which is exacerbated by the injury to Freese.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Well said.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
If only
Tyler Greene could go down to the courthouse and change his name to Proven Veteran, why, he’d be on the next flight to St. Louis.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
TLR: Do we have a proven veteran in AAA who can play middle infield?
MO: Why yes, yes we do!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
by mattybobo on Jun 10, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
oh man, i should have made that my kickball name :-(
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
i agree with everything being said
Would I rather have greene than miles? Sure. The thing I don’t get is the shock(!!!) of larussa playing grizzled vets over calling up guys like greene. It amazes me that after, what, 15 years of larussa (and the last 5 specifically) of him playing old guys over up-and-comers that people are still surprised.
As I said, we are losing games and its not because of aaron miles and randy winn, its because our “better options” skip and ryan are putting up mendoza-line numbers. I can’t fault tlr for doing anything he can to try to get something rolling cause sub .600 ops’ just don’t cut it.
I don't think people are surprised
and like I said, TLR’s track record for doing stuff like this is meaning people aren’t giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one. FWIW, I didn’t mind the Winn acquisition at all, and at the moment I’m not convinced Schu is that much better than Miles.
Somebody mentioned Grudzy above, and, although he’s likely not a lot better than those guys either, I wouldn’t have minded that pickup, as he’s at least been good in the past, and was acceptable in 2009. Miles has been dreadfully mediocre in the past, has NEVER been more than a AAAA fourth-infielder type, and was abysmal last year. Also, Gruzielanek has always been a good fielder, from what I recall.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Exasperated; not surprised.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
+1
Doing something like that when you have no options is one thing. Willfully doing it when you have options is just plain ole stupidity, especially from a man that should know better. He tries to be too damn smart for his(and the team’s) own good.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 10, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Two points -
1. Who’s shocked? Being upset is different than being shocked.
2. We are losing games (at least two of the las three) because Pujols/Holliday didn’t hit for shit during a time when Rasmus and Freese were injured.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 10, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
i have limited appetite to defend the guy,
But he has been bad for the 2009 season and whatever limited exposure he has had this year. That’s not the same as two FULL seasons. Prior to 2009, he had a career season. Is it not reasonable to assume that both 2009 and 2008 were likely flukes, and that he’s the same replacement value guy he’s always been?
Second, do we know that boog was healthy last night? I know he’s been up and down with injuries. Maybe I missed something, but I was not clear on brendan’s availability for the game.
Maybe that just shifts the blame around some – another DL stint for freese or boog might have been a better option. Or, we could have demoted stav and brought up tyler and had FIVE MIF, which would normally bug me, but most of those guys hit and field better than nick anyway.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Jun 10, 2010 12:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
TLR said last night before the game Boog had a pretty jammed up thumb
and would be ready for friday. He said ras would be good friday too and is avail in an emergency.
he also giggled when he announced the lineup.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
if boog, freese, and rasmus are all unavailable for long periods of time, something has to give. that's what the DL is for.
if it means freese has to sit a few extra games after he’s better, that’s fine. at least we would have a free roster spot to call up greene instead of having to run a fucking lineup like last night’s out there.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
That's the point
Miles upside is being a replacement player or below and we have multiple options who are expected to be better than that “upside”.
Not afraid to nitpick
Is it not reasonable to assume that both 2009 and 2008 were likely flukes, and that he’s the same replacement value guy he’s always been?
I think it’s not unreasonable to state that both years were flukes, but he was a replacement level guy earlier in his career. He’s now 33, and is a middle infielder. You’ve got to factor in some age-related decline. Also, he had 260 PAs last year including AAA, and was very bad in both.
Most projection systems project him to hit WORSE than his career line (For instance, ZiPS has him at a .270 wOBA, whilst his career is .298), which would fit in with a very bad last ~500 or so professional plate appearances, and his advanced age for a middle infielder.
I think it is VERY doubtful that he’s still a replacement level guy. Some decline seems almost certain, given the evidence.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:26 AM EDT up reply actions
That Schu and Boog have also sucked is not a reason to not hate Miles.
(And I don’t hate Miles. I hate Mo for putting him on the ML roster ahead of other superior options.)
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 10, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't like going to a day off with an L
much less after being swept
even less being swept by the dodgers
is it me or are the dodgers just incredibly arrogant as a team?
and how long do i have to keep looking at aaron miles?
when did RFL turn into our most reliable guy?
what the hell happened to waino last night?
when do our superstars stop pushing and start playing?
when does tlr finally realize floppy should not play at short?
this series was just sickening (Carp and Luddy excluded)
racing for first against the reds of all teams is just infuriating…
off days suck
and carnie folk suck
small hands…smells like cabbage…
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
We lost two of these games by a single run,
meaning any number of tiny changes to the team could have easily shifted the balance. Despite the fact that we have one of the best top-ends of talent in the game, our team isn’t even in first place. Albert Pujols is playing well, but Ryan Ludwick is really having an awesome year, Adam Wainwright is one of the top five pitchers in the game, Garcia and Carpenter are both pitching at ace levels, Rasmus and Holliday are both above average, and Freese has been playing like a star.
On the other hand, we have three (3!) middle infielders on our roster who are playing around replacement level at the same time that we have Allen Craig, Tyler Greene, and other people not named Aaron Miles in AAA.
Two players, Freese and Rasmus, have been relegated to the Stavinoha role during their injuries- I can understand keeping them on the roster if it’s possible they get well in a lot less than 15 days, but in the meantime we still have Nick Stavinoha on the roster.
Blake Hawksworth doesn’t look like a major league pitcher, and although he wasn’t glaringly overexposed in the bullpen, he still pitched crappily there. Ottavino could be fine, but he’s a stopgap and one of the lowest guys on the totem pole when Penny comes back from injury, so he should be the worst player on the roster. Instead, he’s probably something like our 23rd or 22nd man.
Also, Jason Larue is another crappy veteran and his presence is becoming more and more annoying. Sure, he catches the crappiest starters, but that doesn’t mean we should be throwing those games away. A decent below-average hitter here could allow us to replace both Larue and Stavinoha. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking, but I think Larue’s suckiness is making us too reliant on Yadier Molina.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
by hazel on Jun 10, 2010 9:36 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
every time i see LaRue start
i know it’s a throw-away game. lately though, just looking at the roster, a lot games have felt like they are throw-away ones.. giving up before first pitch is a liiiittle counterproductive
can we sign another Molina to be our backup catcher?
Jose might be as good a defensive catcher as any in the league
I think he’s as good as Yadi, personally, but I know that’s probably blasphemous here. I wonder why we’ve never looked into grabbing him as a backup guy.
I’m not against LaRue being on the roster so long as he plays once in a while. Yeah, he’s pretty crappy these days, but that’s backup catchers for you. His main job is to not be too appalling while Yadi is getting a rest, and I think Yadi might be playing better with more than 1 day off a month.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
i don't mind larue
but he calls crappy games
and when you pair him up with lohse or hawk, peej or otta, you might as well go do sth else, because you already know how that one will turn out
I think he calls a decent game tbh
not seen THAT much of him but we are used to Yadi, who is as good a defensive catcher as anyone, so that’s a high bar (at least in our eyes). I think Pornstache grades out well in most provisional catching and blocking and framing metrics, and I wonder if it’s actually his fault that guys like Welly, Hawk and Walters get mashed when he’s behind the plate. Could be they just suck.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
he shaved?
Holy shit, cut him immediately because I have no use for a clean shaven larue.
by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2010 10:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
there was this one time with all the bright lights, wind, and this booming voice saying There can be only one!
that’s why.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm going to quibble.
Rasmus is WAY above average. He is in the top 5 or 6 in OBP and SLG in the league.
As Felonius pointed out yesterday or the day before, the problem with TLR’s bench preferences is that, once someone gets hurt, his bench preferences become starters. One-run games are won on the margins and these players cost us on the margins with their bad defense, bad hitting, and bad baserunning.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jun 10, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
isnt that how every team works?
A starter gets hurt and a bench preference becomes the starter?
by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2010 9:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well
a lot of the pro-Miles faction (who am I kidding, it’s basically just Soonerfan) argued that it doesn’t matter whether Miles gets picked up, because he’s just there as an occasional pinch hitter, and he might have 3 or 4 ABs a week, so young guys like Greene or Craig might as well be in AAA getting at-bats.
The obvious argument that several folks made (incl. me) was that you only need one injury (especially on a roster with a couple of guys struggling, and a couple of guys who only hit well from one side) and all of a sudden your “25th man” is starting at a position he sucks at in an actual major league baseball game. As happened yesterday.
There’s an argument to be made for having, say, Craig in AAA instead of Stavinoha, as Craig is an actual future piece of the team and Stav is never going to be more than an occasional bench PHer and they’re probably not too dissimilar in their hitting ability (though Craig is likely a better hitter and fielder, for occasional PHs it’s probably not THAT critical). It’s not an argument I subscribe to, because we’re in a playoff race and every run counts (as we saw yesterday). That said, there’s NO cogent argument for having Miles on the bench, when there are better pinch hitters, AND better defensive infielders that we could choose, and none of them have a serious MLB future we need to worry about.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly my point.
So, then, why hamstring yourself with awful bench players like Stavinoha, Miles, and, possibly, Winn? You are setting yourself up to lose games. Miles’s ceiling is Greene’s floor, IMO. Stavinoha cannot play the field. Winn, IMO, has major question marks. I’d much rather have had Jay in CF these last few days.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Winn, IMO, has major question marks. I’d much rather have had Jay in CF these last few days.
I agree about that, FWIW, even though I defended the Winn signing. I think Jay is pretty clearly the superior fielder, even though I’m not sure how well his bat will play going forward.
I’d have had Craig up to play 3B whilst Freese has been out, too. I think he should take some reps at 3B in Memphis because it’d be nice if he could make a spot start there once or twice a year and he’s not blocking anyone (our AAA 3B has been Gotay, I think, who is also BETTER THAN AARON MILES).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
For the record, the list of players BETTER THAN AARON MILES includes several Veterans Committee candidates
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
by TBender on Jun 10, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
For the record, the list of players BETTER THAN AARON MILES includes several VEB commenters
by jd is legend on Jun 10, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For the record, the list of players BETTER THAN AARON MILES includes ALL VEB commenters under the age of 60
by d-dee on Jun 10, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not true....
unfortunately, AM is a better baseball player than I am.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
At least you're smart enough to know that.
AM hasn’t figured out that he isn’t a baseball player anymore.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 10, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
TLR hasn’t figured out that AM isn’t a baseball player anymore
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
That too.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 10, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
sometimes i think
TLR hasn’t figured out that AM isn’t a baseball player anymore
by d-dee on Jun 10, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i certainly hope
The 3rd winningest manager keeps “not figuring out baseball”.
Face it, tlr has forgot more about baseball than all of us know.
by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2010 12:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I still think he's a good manager
but I also think one of the things he forgot about baseball is how to properly evaluate the Aaron Miles’s of the world.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
of course i was kidding
but i often wish i’d hear the reasoning behind some of his decisions
i’m sure they make sense, i just sometimes fail to see it
nah, he's admitted to pace in certain patterns
because he thinks it effects the game.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Manage long enough
and enjoy the services of Harold Baines, LaMarr Hoyt, Canseco, McGwire, Eckersley, Welch, Edmonds, Rolen, Carp, Wainwright … yeah, your record would look better than Gene Mauch’s, too.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
Everyone says Bobby Cox is such a good manager, but it would be hard not to be a good manager when you’ve got Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine all in their prime.
by jd is legend on Jun 10, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
day to day bases
I’d take Jay. But if we want a go who can play centerfield on those 10-20 off days we give Colby against lefties, I’d like the guy batting left against them.
I think the Craig at 3B thing has been given up on.
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Quibbling is fun (I know hazel didn't mean it this way)
Freese: .364 wOBA, “playing like a star”
Rasmus: .410 wOBA, “above average”
Think; It's not illegal yet.
by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's funny because Rasmus is my favorite player,
so I more consciously temper my fawning.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
our expectations of rasmus and freese prior to each player's rookie season were vastly different
i suspect that may have something to do with it also
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Freese is 27 during his rookie season.
It’s true we weren’t expecting this much from a guy who’d been in the minors so long.
Regression, bitches.
JD Drew
is an anagram of Dr. D Jew.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions
A question just to raise morale...
Can Austin Jackson go play one year at Stanford, then sign with the Cardinals right after the draft? ‘Cause I keep seeing stuff where his parents are saying "He’s going to Stanford" and nothing where he is saying “I’m going to Stanford.” Maybe I have not seen enough articles, maybe I’m being stubborn, I don’t know…but it could happen right? I mean, it’s within the rules of the game to happen – as long as he signs by the draft next year, right?
If Jackson doesn't sign with us before the August deadline we no longer have any rights over him whatsoever
and he is under no obligation to sign or even talk to us. Basically, unless we can convince him in the next two months to shelve the college idea and sign with us (for an amount that will piss selig off and may well change the way the draft works, as it’ll be so ludicrously over slot), we’d have to use our first round pick on him next year (and, realistically, if he goes to stanford he might not even declare elligibility for the draft next year, as he’ll be even harder to sign than he was this year, most likely).
I think our only options are to get mega-creative and, as I suggested before, give him $1-2m to sign with us now AND let him go to college (i.e. we get rights on him, pay him a fat stack of money, we don’t get to touch the guy for three years and if he picks up a career-ending injury or discovers he can’t get anywhere near a breaking ball in college, that’s our tough shit), or to just use him as leverage over Cox to maybe get our first-rounder signed quickly and for a fair bonus.
I realise our collective “well, MAYBE we can do it” thoughts are sort of adding up to a feeling here that we might just sign him, but, realistically, there’s probably like a 1 or 2% chance he ends up with us from this year’s draft. Don’t hold your breath.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
i wouldnt pay him shit unless he is coming to the org now
Why would you give a 12th round pick 2 million dollars in the hopes that 3-4 years down the road he’ll be a stud? Players that go to the majors from stanford do so despite stanford, not because of stanford. He’s only going to get worse at stanford.
by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2010 9:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
don't look at it as a 12th round pick
the kid was a top 15 talent this year, who dropped to the 12th because no one felt they could sign him. I think that you try anything, even what Monk described, to get this kid in the system. Let him go to school, and while at school, the Cards could have instructors work with him during his free time. Then let him play during the summer months to work on his stuff. Yes it delays his rise to the bigs, but it gives us a potential star that is under our control, and we don’t risk losing him to another team once he reenters the draft in a few years after playing college ball.
I do agree he will get worse playing for Stanford, so sign him to a contract now that allows him to get the education but prevents him from playing for them.
RFL for GG!
by stxcardsfan on Jun 10, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
he could play in Cape Cod during the summer. It’s a league of high quality college players, AND most importantly they use wood bats. The quality is supposed to be similar to A or A+ ball, so after three years of that we could probably start him in Palm Beach and move him up to Springfield in his first year or so. He’d still only be 22.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
the problem is
You don’t just prevent him from playing for stanford and stanford only, you prevent him from playing ball at all. Sure, we can work him out on the weekends and he can play a couple months in the cape league as someone suggested but that’s nothing compared to playing competitive baseball. He isn’t going to be any type of ball player after 4 years at stanford and not playing ball.
by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2010 10:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't most of the instructional leagues start later and finish earlier in the summer?
I know that’s how the Frontier League works. He could play pro ball in the summer and go to school in the winter. Too bad there isn’t an academic school in Fla he could still get in ST.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 10, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, that's what I was thinking
but others have voiced sensible concerns. He could certainly play in Cape Cod, which I think runs for a month or two, and maybe take some hacks in QC during the summer vac, but I agree with lopey, it’s probably not enough baseball, really.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Get him some tutors that teach or have taught at Stanford?
Get him a parade of nubile young women to ogle? Sounds like he’d have Stanford in a nutshell that way.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 10, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
The NCAA
would have something to say about your plan.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would you give a 12th round pick 2 million dollars in the hopes that 3-4 years down the road he’ll be a stud?
Why would you give a college senior 2 million dollars in the first round? Same thing, really, except in this case the benefit we get (a good prospect) is not immediate, and there’s a risk he gets injured between now and then. Arguably also, his ceiling is sort of lower as a college player IF he doesn’t do that well in college, so it’s a risk (we’re paying for a high ceiling high-school guy, but we MAY get a lower ceiling college guy at the other end).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
precedent
I fear giving a guy 1st round money AND saying “oh, you aren’t ready to be a big leaguer? Well go to college for 4 years on us” will set a dangerous precedent that I’m not sure we want to get into.
Not to mention, if he signs with us he can’t play ball at stanford he can only go to school. So we’d be paying a guy 1st round money to go to stanford and not do what we are paying him to do and probably get 2 months of summer ball out of him for 3-4 years. You really think he’ll be worth a lick after that?
by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2010 10:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that's a very good point to be fair.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
This is like the 8th time I've seen that line from KLaw quoted
For a group that supposedly doesn’t like him much . . . a lot of people read him.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Not to mention
no one ever really explains that quote, they just parrot it.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
the one about hitters getting worse @ stanford?
A guy I played against in high school (ryan eigsti) was a 10th round pick, after 2 years at stanford he wasn’t “draftable”. That’s the only instance I know of first hand but I do like Law actually so I hope he has the info to back up the quote.
by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2010 10:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Did he get worse or he didn't get better?
Probably the same high school performance and “upside” got him a scholarship to Stanford and got him drafted.
2 years later, he evidently didn’t reach his upside, which is pretty much like most all the high school players who were drafted but never went to college.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Jun 10, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
that's a good point
since i first heard this assertion about stanford i wondered how one could determine that – i suppose if they went from hitting .400 freshman year to .300 and then .200, something like that, but people forget that stanford is recruiting high upside also, just as in a draft, and there are going to be many guys who just don’t reach it or whose talent was perhaps overrated to begin with.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
If he signs with us,
with an agreement letting him go to school, he won’t be able to play ball, so he wouldn’t have the baseball schollie, and tbh, I don’t think a 3.2 gets you into Stanford unless your playing sports.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Umm. . .
he probably can’t play baseball at Stanford if that happens, right? So he’d just be going to study physics and pick up chicks – - granted, that sounds like a crapload of fun, but I supsect that his baseball skills would erode quite seriously while playing co-ed rec league softball.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 10, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Once Wilson (not Jackson) goes to Stanford to play ball, he's there for 3 years.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
I thought it might be hard for him to play for the Tigers and Stanford...
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
From a new update on Rotoworld:
“La Russa and Duncan have reportedly “voiced a willingness” to talk to Jeff Suppan, who was released by the Brewers on Monday. Other possibilities include Brian Bannister and Kevin Millwood. According to Strauss, the Cardinals would prefer to acquire an active starting pitcher rather than someone like John Smoltz or Pedro Martinez."
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 10, 2010 10:12 AM EDT reply actions
A nation weeps...
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Bannister or Millwood would be fine
we’re in a pennant race. Fuck it, if it costs us a B-level prospect to get one of those guys, you do it. Daryl Jones or John Jay or whoever aren’t going to seriously affect the future of this ballclub. Suppan isn’t even a dumpster dive, he’s rooting around in the ratshit encrusted garbage that wouldn’t FIT in the dumpster.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sign me up for Bannister,
but I cannot get behind a signing of Suppan. Suppan is digging up buried trash from the landfill. The Brewers—a club with a 5.32 ERA—outright released him and paid him $10MM or so in the process.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
We're gettin' the band back together!
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I'd probably take Millwood over Bannister
and of course I’d take either of them (or my grandmother) over Suppan. But it’s really irritating that they don’t want to go after Smoltz of Martinez.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 10, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
St. Smoltz of Martinez?
The patron saint of aging ace pitchers?
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think they want someone who can help NOW
Pedro and Smoltz aren’t in pitching shape, I don’t think. I think Smoltz is effectively retired with his media commitments, and, tbh, I’m not sure what Pedro has left based on the last year or two, I think I’m less high on him than most are (but yeah, I’d be excited about it, for old times’ sake).
The advantage of Banny over Millwood is that we could easily take on Bannister’s salary ($2.3m pro-rated), whereas Millwood’s 2010 salary ($12m with the Rangers sending $3m to Baltimore in the trade, pro-rated) would need us to get creative IMO. We probably have to give up a better prospect (Craig + something?) for Millwood and see if the Os will eat a bit of the cash.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I didn't realize Millwood was getting paid that much
That certainly changes the balance on him vs. Bannister.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 10, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
pedro
Had a 37:8 k/bb ratio and a 3.6 era. Faaar better than soup. Pedro prolly wants to pitch on the east coast though and I’d imagine philly or the mets will pick him up late in the year again.
by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2010 12:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah
I just don’t see him as an option. He’d probably take a couple of months, too. He’s better than Soup, though, as you said.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions
M's are gonna be in town Monday....
They’re bringing Cliff Lee with them. Get it done Mo.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i was talking with cardball aboot this last night.....
I think we match up well with the M’s as trade partners. Craig, TGreene, DJ could go a long way with that club.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Most teams would (well, other than the Phillies)
Maybe we can get Zduriencizickiewikipedia really drunk, convince him the M’s are toast in that division, start talking up Allen Craig et al…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
We have an agent in place.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Not enough for Lee IMO
think it’s probably Miller or bust.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
i say no to trading miller
if we have any hope of remaining competitive after re-signing albert, we need shelby in a big way.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
if cliff lee were on our team,
there is no way you would consider giving him up for that package
the endowment effect says that someone is willing to pay less for something that they don’t have than what they would ask for the same thing if they owned it
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Everyone here has probably lived the endowment effect
in their fantasy baseball league, when someone offers you a trade (even though no one here cares about anybody else’s fantasy baseball team or league).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
...is a living the well endowment effect
joke too obv here?
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
no
but you botched it.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:34 AM EDT up reply actions
OK.....I didn't mean that that package would get it done...
Obviously it won’t. All I’m saying is that I think the teams would make good trade partners because I think we have some pieces in our org that would be more valuable to the M’s than us. Don’t get me wrong, Cliff Lee is a pipe dream. We were specifically talking aboot Snell last night, but it looks like he dove off the cliff.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Snell looks Duncan fixable to me
FWIW. i think he’d be a good project. Might not be the best short-term addition, though, as he looks like a nice can of gasoline for our shit-pitching fire.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Washburn doesn't play for the M's
he doesn’t play for anyone. He didn’t sign in the winter.
We could get him for nada.
Of course, he isn’t terribly good, but he’d be a decent enough #4 or 5, I think. Whether he’s in shape to pitch straight away is a question, as is how much money it’d take – he turned down $5m from the Twins over the winter, and I wouldn’t want to offer more than $5m for the rest of the season.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't disagree.....
I just am pining for a rotation of Carp, Wain, Lee, Garcia, and Penny….Towel please.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Heh
yeah that would be the best in the major leagues by a long shot.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Our offense should be about average
and indeed somewhat above that if everyone is healthy and we do something about the vacuum of turd in the middle infield.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If we added Broxton, Bell and Rivera to the pen
I’d say one run per night would just about do it…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd
for the term “vacuum of turd.” That sounds like a song from a Norweigan death metal band.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
i can't believe our MIF is bringing down the team so significantly
its really incredible. RFL, Rasmus, Freese are having all-star worthy years. pujols is pujols. holliday, while sucking with RISP is still hitting .300. what is HAPPENING?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
And FWIW I like Lee
a lot. I think the Phils were foolish to dump him this year. I know it was with one eye to the future but you’ve got to think they’re virtual locks to take the NL pennant with that rotation.
It’s another reason why that Lohse deal stinks so much. We had the prospects last year to get Lee, and could probably do it this year. If we could extend him for 3 years for a deal like Lohse’s (or even 4 years I guess), $12m per year or so, I would have definitely been happy to trade Shelby or more or less anyone other than Rasmus for him. Hindsight is 20:20, but I think at the time most of us would’ve prefered Lee (who still had a year on his deal left) to Holliday in the Wallace trade and, given what the Indians ended up getting for him, I think we could’ve done that deal last year easily.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
you mean
fire up the van
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Need to add that to the super meme eel cat picture.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
but then he would be able to pitch against the cards
and have a 27 K no-hitter
(not perfect game because he would walk Pujols each time up)
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
*wouldn't
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I love Bannister.
He’s kind of my saber-side’s darling. He seems really intelligent and really willing to learn from pitch fx and such. Granted, he’s a mediocre pitcher but I’d still like to see him in a stop-gap role over Suckspan (thanks for all the good times, dude, but stay away from my team now).
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
He's also dirt cheap and probably under-appreciated in KC
If we could get him for Craig I definitely pull the trigger.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Starting pitching vs offense
I know we probably need another starter, especially if Penny’s gonna be out much longer. But I’m wondering how much adding another starter would help, with our anemic offense. Even if we got Lee and he threw a shut out everytime, we gotta score some runs eventually. Would it make more sense to shore up the offense somehow. I don’t have any specific ideas. Not even sure what the problem is, because on paper, we should have a phenomenal offense. Anyway, just wondering what everyone else thinks.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 11:35 AM EDT reply actions
I don't honestly think our offense is doing that badly
we just seem to score runs in bunches. To be fair, 3 runs is going to be enough for Waino most days, and we DID score 4 in the first game which could’ve been more if we’d not given up on the game. The series before we put a couple of crooked numbers on Cincinatti, didn’t we? I just wish we wouldn’t get shut out so much.
A better bench would help, for sure.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess that's true.
Yeah, those frequent shutouts do sting. Probably why I remember them more than the big wins.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone know of how to find out how many options a player has left?
My partner at work and I were discussing possible roster moves this morning and just wondering if maybe Tyler Greene is low on options and that’s a factor with why he hasn’t been brought back yet.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 11:44 AM EDT reply actions
It doesn't matter
a player uses one option per year. Greene’s already been up and sent down to Memphis this year IIRC so his option this year is used. I think he’s got one more year FWIW. We can bring him up and down as often as we want in 2010 and it doesn’t make a difference. Which makes it more maddening!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 10, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
i was wondering about options on tuesday
how is hawksworth out of options? has he been on the 40-man for too many years?
No, he's fine.
He’s already been brought up and sent back down, that’s 1 option. He can be called up and sent down as many times as they want now, and it won’t COST ANY MORE OPTIONS.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Grrrrr....
Guess it’s solely the lack of gritty veteraness then.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
The caps lock was on when I finished my comment
as I use a unix program here at work, and just started typing when I switched back. Looks like it works though.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Yeah, i figured it was intentional.
Maybe one of those subconcious things.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think so......
I’m pretty sure he’d clear waivers though.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'd kinda hope he didn't, though
Someone else needs to take this infection off our hands
by jd is legend on Jun 10, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
So I went to Cincinnati to watch Reds vs. Giants with some friends.
The attendance was horrible. Only about 14,000 for a 1st place team! But yeah, the Giants offense got shut down by Aaron Harang of all pitchers, and it was pretty entertaining.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
went to the civil rights game
And they sold out that one. Cincy has spotty attendance during weekdays but they usually have a good crowd on weekends. Also, very very friendly people. Everyone clapped when rasmus hit the homer and I stood up and was pointing at the back of my rasmus jersey. sadly we lost and I will never forget how (damn you schumaker!).
by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2010 12:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Fixed
But yeah, the Giants offense [gets] shut down byAaron Harang ofall pitchers, and it [is] pretty entertaining.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions
No kidding...........
Although Buster Posey has something to say about that :).
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
out of lurkdom to say
Mo on Bernie making Suppan sound like a very real possibility.
go back to your cave!
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
ha!
just reporting what was said. don’t shoot the messenger.
rest of the interview was very interesting. Sensed some unspoken friction between Tony and Mo over the “young guy” situation.
good, there should be friction.
THIS IS PURE LUNACY!
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
When he was cut,
was there anyone here who thought that wouldn’t happen?
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD
by The Continental on Jun 10, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Soup
I wonder if Soup could make it back to being the pitcher that he was back when he was with the Cards if re-united with Dunc? I’m not saying that would be a great thing, mind you – - his best FIP/xFIP with the Birds was 4.53/4.35 back in 2005.
From FanGraphs, he’s a much different pitcher now, throwing far less fastballs, far more breaking stuff, and (maybe as a result?) giving up far more flyballs and line drives.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 10, 2010 12:49 PM EDT reply actions
One other thing. . .
being the same pitcher now that he was when he was with the Cards before would likely not lead to the same ERA results; the Cards’ defense now is not what it was then.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Jun 10, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no positive way to spin
signing Soup. He’s done…kinda like AFM.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I think our defence now is better FWIW
Yadi and Pujols are still there
Grudzy/Miles at 2B were probably better than Lopez/Schu
Boog is WAY better than Eck
Rolen better than Freese
Ludwick better than Juan E (who played RF in 05? Can’t recall. Larry Walker?)
Rasmus better than ageing Edmonds
Holliday’s probably similar to Walker/Sanders/So/whoever in LF
Hmmm so maybe not better but similar.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:44 AM EDT up reply actions
He's throwing different stuff
because he’s washed up.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
oh boy
dgoold:Hey @miklasz is there any way to read Mozeliak’s comments (need someone soon, short-term opening) other than this: Signing Suppan? #stlcards 17 minutes ago via web
BJRains: Sounds like, reading between the lines, Jeff Suppan will be a member of the Cardinals here in the near future…. 17 minutes ago via web
/stabs self repeatedly in the eyes
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Tino Martinez
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Not until the Joe Thurston reunion tour is complete
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
If they bring him back, I'm blaming you.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 10, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
242/308/379 at AAA Gwinnett
Value and Quality right there
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Fuck me.
That is just enough to ruin the rest of my day. Good night nurse!
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Jun 10, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I really really hope we don't sign him
wasted money on Winn already, now they are going to waste money on Suppan?? give me a break, hope this type of stuff doesn’t cost us signing our draft guys this year
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
aren't they both league minimum scenarios?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
which is what, a million total?
that’s still something
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
for 98% of the world
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
they have to pay somebody
that is literally the minimum they can pay, therefore it’s not wasted money. Jay/Walters get paid the same.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:45 AM EDT up reply actions
well
I guess this means Penny is out for longer than I thought he would be, which really sucks. I hope they aren’t trying to replace Ottavino because I genuinely believe that he is better than Suppan
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a five year old daughter, a red betta fish named "Albert" (which she named after the Mang) and
five feral cats that live in the neighborhood that I believe are all better than Suppan.
by RollBirdsRoll on Jun 10, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
IIRC, the Yanks and Brewers are paying Winn and Suppan
St. Louis owes Winn a pro-rated portion of the league minimum (which does reduce the commitment from the Yankees). Suppan would get the same deal.
I think this is what happened when they picked up Preston Wilson in 2006 too.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Ya, the bill would come in closer to 500K
for the both of them.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I would think (or maybe just hope) that these expenditures wouldn't affect the draft...
Based not on any hard evidence or knowledge.
However, I know I’ve hear MO and others remark that money for Latin American signing like Mateo doesn’t have an effect on their drafting budget, so I would think major league roster moves and amateur draft signings are similarly separated when it comes to their respective budgeting.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
not being much of a hockey fan, I was debating on whether or not to watch the blackhawks in game 6 or the Cardinals game
especially since Waino was pitching. I am glad I chose the ’hawks game, because it was so much more entertaining than watching 3 players play at their wrong positions, TLR is killing me with this type of crap. the most frustrating thing about him imo. Lopez should NOT be starting at shortstop unless boog is hurt. Miles needs to NOT be on the team, because, well, he really sucks. the only place he should play at is 2B if he is on the team. he is not a third baseman, I would rather see our third base hydra of ’09 than Miles at third, and that is saying a LOT. Skip is not that great of an infielder, and needs to start hitting more. but since Freese is hurt, he can play second, since he is better than Miles. put Lopez at third and let boog field his position like no one else on the team can.
getting sick of TLR doing things incorrectly, good point DanUp!
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions
with the off day today, didn't TLR say he wanted rest the banged up players
so they would get an extra day of recovery time. Perhaps he is trying to see the forest through the trees? or maybe he can’t smell the own shit on his team?
(Beautiful People popped up on my Pandora recently)
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I can't understand why he thinks that Miles can start at third base AT ALL
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
or hold a major league roster spot, exclamation point
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
absolutely!
!
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
mlb The Show 2007
Yesterday I was playing a game and decided to pinch hit Miles for Eck late in the game so I could bat from the left side. I struck out. Just sayin…
Also, J-Rod is nails.
2-hop throws to Albert FTW.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I was wondering what would happen
if DanUp posted
(And it will be boring. Don’t ask me how I know.)
now i know the answer
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
gaw before the big leagues
BJRains: Blake Hawksworth’s Napster fix, playing basketball in his boxers, the story of the dirty sock and more: linki 33 minutes ago via web
Co-worker of mine asked if I wanted to go to Ozzie's for lunch
I said no because I brought a sandwich. He came back with Ozzie’s autograph.
F' the autograph...ask him if they have the same T'Ravs??????
Those things were devine.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
I am sorry Evilfrog.
Go next time.
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
Where is that now?
they moved out of West Port right?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Too bad Mo didn't take a flyer on Ozzie
Ozzie 2010 > Miles
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
by gocards62 on Jun 10, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
To TLR:
Royce Clayton 2010 > Ozzie Smith 2010
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Garry Templeton
what’s he doing these days? For that matter, how about Ted Simmons?
Delino DeShields?
Joe McEwing?
Oh, I know. Craig Paquette.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
How about
this guy? I did not remember he appeared in 105 games for us in ’95. Man, those were some down years.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
NO!
1st pitch of the game, he buckner’s a warmup speed grounder.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
On the topic of bringing back Suppan
Grudzielanek just became a free agent per MLBTR! Whoo! Hello 2005 team.
Jeff Jordan's dad can beat up your dad.
Apparently Izzy is still available as well
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay
Suppan I can somehow find the strength to tolerate.
PK might be better than Hawksworth, although watching Memphis tee off him in Omaha in April, I doubt it.
Grud, well, that’s no more ridiculous than bringing back Miles.
But when you talk about bringing back Izzy, sir, that is where I draw the damn line!
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
why can't we bring back Troy Glaus?
his bat slams are so much better than Freese’s.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Let's go for broke...
Fernando Tatis
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
On the good news front
Looks like we won’t have to face Cliff Lee next week because he is pitching Saturday.
done
Suppan is on the team according to 101 espn.
Fudge
Damn, this team got old fast.
Adios Esposito.
Adios Sarge. Say a prayer for Surf Boy...wherever he is.
bring back Hector Luna!
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards
i must be an eternal optimist
because for some reason, nothing statistical (please don’t kill me), I feel like Dunc can fix Soup, or at least repair him a little.
nope, on goolds twitter
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
twitter confirms
dgoold: Suppan back with Cardinals per agent. Will join team in Phoenix. #stlcards 10 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
I really hope his first start isn't in that hitters park.
That will get ugly fast.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I miss last season
I miss earlier this season when we were playing the kids and having fun. What did Jon Jay do wrong, exactly (besides fail to draw a walk.)
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards
Failing to draw walks didn't get Stav sent back down, so it can't be that.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Where's that instant NOOOOOOOOO!!!! button when I need it?
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 3:26 PM EDT reply actions
No kidding! Just say No to Suppan.
I think Bannister is worth a shot. Suppan would just add to my disappointment of adding Winn and Miles. What do adding Miles and Winn say for this team? It doesn’t say championship that’s for sure. What does it say for our minor league system that Miles and Winn are better in LaRussa or the front office eyes than any of our minor leaguers. This is frustrating. The offense is irritating with their inconsistency. I’m almost happy at this point that so many games get blacked out here in the QC. It’s irritating reading about this team let alone watching it.
"They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time."
hopefully soon, I need a dealer.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
what a winn'er!
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
it's not like it's coming back...it just never went away #1998
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
At least the Reds are losing 6-4
but it’s only the 8th inning…
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards
are they gonna keep skipping the 5th spot?
suppan is joining the cards in phoenix. could very well take the normal fifth starter turn on, i guess, the 13th or so
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
carp pitches on the 13th
oh wait, that will all change now or what?
i was so looking forward to another carp-edwin jackson brawl
damn you soup
if we go in order
we have, for the dbacks series, garcia, otto, suppan. or maybe even swap suppan and otto
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
motherfucker...
and i just wasted a whole bunch of seed bonus to request a cap of the sunday game
2 minutes too soon
i thought we weren’t supposed to sign him until a couple of days from now. at least give it some consideration..
what, we were afraid that if he were a free agent for more than 5 minutes someone else would sing him? like who?
fml
can we retire him tomorrow?
if this happens i will be beyond fucking pissed
i will scream obscenities at TLR from the dugout box. when i explain to the dbacks ushers what has happened, they will understand and allow me to continue.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
well at least you'll get to see jaime
but other than that i understand full well why you’re pissed
1B dugout box? i want to hear you scream during the entire broadcast
i can't remember which game i have dugout seats for, but yeah, three rows above cardinals dugout.. i really hope its friday.
i am excited to see JAIME GARCIA.
whoever pitches saturday goes against Haren. might as well just try and scalp those tickets. the dbacks fans will be happy to take tickets to a game they are actually favored to win.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Winn is getting lumped in unfairly here I think
He can be a useful player and he hits RH vs. Jay being lefthanded.
Not afraid to nitpick
So we now have arguably the worst pitcher and worst position player
Over the last 1.5 years on our roster? That’s a hell of a way to build a championship team. CDNGAFwhatTLRwants. This is insanity.
Mo is Tony's puppet
If the Miles thing didn’t confirm it….Suppan did.
Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"…long pause…then an "aahhh". --Mike Shannon
can it be oquendo time now?
this is some shit
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Jun 10, 2010 3:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
J. F. S!
and not good in the RFL! way.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 3:46 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah.
I need to find some sort of font that connotates rage rather than excitement
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
J.F.S!#@!!.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
ZiPS projects a 5.42 ERA the rest of the season
remember the fit i threw about evan maclane being on the roster that day or so? no? well, i did. i’d rather have maclane. i’d rather call up fresh out of high school shelby f. miller
jesus christ, this is the worst roster management i have ever seen
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
You forget
Evan Maclane is not a Proven Veteran.
Welcome to 2007, everyone. Good to have you all back.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
"Jack, where ARE we?"
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
I can't believe they pulled the trigger on this this deal!
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
"They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time."
yeah, probably right around the first inning
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Joke time!
Two guys walk into a pizzeria…the third one signs Jeff Suppan and Aaron Miles.
by Evilfrog on Jun 10, 2010 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
hey guys remember how promising this season looked in april?
what the fuck happened? its unraveled into a giant pile of shit. i will be surprised if we make the post season.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
After going 15-19
after starting off 18-8, I’m not sure they’ll even be above .500 on July 1st.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i am honestly taking all of this personally
i think TLR is out to get all of VEB. that’s the only explanation.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Ownership indulges TLR too much.
He’s out of control.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Because he is dealing with an owner who indulges his manager to a fault.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
We'd need more pies.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
how much is the franchise worth at this point?
value is diminishing every day
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
absolutely this
mo is too smart for this shit. TLR is pretty much co-GM
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
it's those damn
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
the last two weeks...this is what has happened to St. Louis Sports
1. Cardinals sign Aaron Miles and promote him over Greene
2. Cardinals sign Randy Winn
3. Big 10 appears to be giving the cold shoulder to Mizzou leaving them to play where? the Mountain West?
4. The Blues chief rival, the Chicago Blackhawks, win their first Stanley Cup in 49 years with the Blues former headcoach behind their bench.
5. The Cardinals sign Jeff Suppan
Tell me it isn’t true…the 1-15 Rams are the best thing going in St. Louis sports?
These two weeks are rivaling the day from hell last fall....
you all remember that early October day…..
1. Holliday starts off the mess by shitting himself on a left field fly ball can of corn costing the cards game two in Chavez Ravine
2. Mizzou blows a huge 4th quarter lead against Nebraska…in a sense, screwing their Football season
3. The Blues sucked ass on opening night at Scottrade completing the Trifecta.
That day was suppose to be the best day of the year in St. Louis sports…it turned into the worst day I can remember in sports….these last couple weeks are rivaling that day, though
Guillermo Mota
Maybe he’ll be DFA’d by the Giants and picked up for the bullpen. He’s a Proven Veteran, you know. Does it matter he just blew the Giants lead in Cincinnati? Why, no. That just means he’s probably tipping his pitches, something Dave Duncan can correct.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 3:51 PM EDT reply actions
think about this
having stavinoha and winn on the roster seem like brilliant decisions compared to miles and suppan
let that settle in
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
FUCK
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
How do we have room on the 40 man for all of these guys?
I know Lohse went on the 60 day DL, but at some point the roster has to be full.
kind of wondering who gets sent down to make room on the 25-man
but good point. i just looked and the 40-man roster is full. and that’s counting lohse being placed on the 60-day DL. someone will have to be outrighted off the roster (read: placed in waivers) to make room for suppan
what. the. fuck.
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
there's your answer
but damn i was hoping maybe it would be stav
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
me too, 1000 times over
i was just saying, realistically, if they were going to put someone on waivers, i can’t imagine it would be anyone else.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Outright Suppan?
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic
-Robert S. Wieder
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Jun 10, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess salas gets sent down
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Salas = 1 inning
Maclane = 0 innings
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
...
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
"Hai, guize!"
“I’m Soupy! And we’re going to have SO much fun! First, there’s ‘Guaranteed Loss Night’ where you can see me give up five runs in two innings to the Pittsburgh Pirates! Then there’s the 2006 World Series reunion whenever we play the Reds! Why, there goes Scott Rolen now, taking a run after putting one of my pitches in the Ohio River! Oh, c’mon, the difference between wins and losses is just numbers, and who wants to deal with math, when you got your ol’ buddy Soup back!”
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ARGH
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
The rest of the division is crying...
with laughter.
I’m pretty sure in big situations, they’d walk him [Pujols] to get to Babe Ruth.-- Matt Holliday
Except they didn't spend extra money doing that
or block a younger, better option.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
do we actually have a younger better option though?
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
can't imagine lynn being worse
but the point is there were much better FA options
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Ottavino? Walters? The rest of the Memphis staff?
None of those guys are equal to 2010 Suppan?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
...
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Walters is worse than Soup
And if he’s only going to be making one or two starts before Penny comes back than I don’t want to screw up the Memphis rotation or start Lynn’s service clock early.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
but you know that's not what is going to happen.
soup is our 5th starter now. when penny comes back, ottavino is gone.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
based on what!
ZiPS certainly disagrees
not like there were only two options here, though
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I know if I'm a Cubs fan
I’m doing just that. Meantime, the Reds will see the return of Homer Bailey, Edinson Volquez, and by September, Aroldis Chapman.
And, they have an offense. Which they proved this afternoon, again.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Volquez is no sure bet to return by season's end.
And, with his control problems, I don’t how great Chapman will be this season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
volquez is no sure bet
but he did already throw 50-60 pitches off the mound at GABP a couple weeks ago – jocketty at least was very impressed. bailey had a rough first rehab outing in the past couple days, so there’s that.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Why shouldn't they win?
They have a roster of players that wants to.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I guess our guys don't want to win.
It’s not the injuries to two starting pitchers and terrible roster management that’s keeping them down.
Regression, bitches.
how about
they have a gm and manager intent on winning every game possible?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Seriously?
we’re pining after Dusty Baker and Walt Jocketty now?
Seriously?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Jun 11, 2010 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions
haha
i’m not pining for them, but i don’t see the reds conceding games right now with roster and managerial moves. dusty might lose games with poor decisions, but he’s actually trying to win them. tony has conceded one two many games for my tastes this year. and whereas jocketty did release miles, mo picked him up.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think that even having these shitty players on the roster - not to mention playing them often -
is an act of conceding games. And then there’s Tony’s in-game managing.
Regression, bitches.
trying to be rational now
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Suppan’s primary value in the past (i.e. when he was 4 to 5 years younger) was that he came up big in some big games, especially the playoffs. How is this team even going to make the playoffs if they keep making decisions like this? It seems like there’s a chance the Central could be as awful as it was in 2006 this year, but still…
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards
right now they are
I don’t see them sustaining this offense. the pitching, maybe. I’d be shocked if Rolen stayed healthy and this productive the rest of the season, for one.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards
innings eater was his main deal in the past
now if he were an innings eater, he’s probably lose every effing start
I'll leave this to Lao Tzu
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
meanwhile, dontrelle willis pitches his eighth consecutive scoreless inning for the d-backs...
i do believe he would have been a better option than soup
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Dontrelle Willis has a 1.06 K/BB ratio this year
Which is a massive improvement over his 0.61 mark last year and his 0.51 mark the year before. He’s not a groundball pitcher either. His fastball is averaging 88 this year. I think he the worst pitcher in baseball – although really not much worse than Soup.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm not saying i wanted willis AT ALL
but, given all the injuries to our pitching staff, the poor performances of PeeJ and Hawk, IF the cardinals had taken a flyer on a guy like willis who was once a great pitcher and it cost them next to no money, would VEB be in uproar like we are right now?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
frustrated, probably, but less uproarious
I think most of the anger is directed at the idea that the Cardinals are signing ex-Cardinals who have no business on a Major League roster now. If Aaron Miles were Mark Loretta and Jeff Suppan Brian Moehler I think this would be less acrimonious.
Yes, because Willis is literally the worst pitcher in baseball
Soup is pretty close.
I would have tried to get Bannister. I love that guy.
by vivaelpujols on Jun 10, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
argh
BJRains: For 42 million dollars, the Brewers got 29 wins and a 5.08 ERA in a little more than three seasons from Jeff Suppan.
light the torches
and grab the tar and feathers…
We apparently really want it to be 2004-2006 again. Quick someone get good ol’ Chris Duncan on the Phone.
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
I'd prefer him to some of
the choices made in the last week.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
He was also an above replacement level trophy humper....
so he’s got that going for him.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
What's Reggie Sanders been up to lately?
He’d be great to give TLR a chance to mix and match with Winn.
by Michael_68_1999 on Jun 10, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
stop it!
every time someone sarcastically brings up someone like that, the Cardinals end up signing them. I don’t want to see Duncan in LF again.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards
DanUp's got post welcoming back Mr. Suppan.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
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