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Weekend Update

ST. LOUIS - MAY 23: Albert Pujols #5 of the St. Louis Cardinals steals third base against Brandon Wood #3 of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim at Busch Stadium on May 23, 2010 in St. Louis, Missouri.  It was awesome.

I feel like I missed an especially newsy weekend of Cardinals baseball by being on the road through most of it—my cell phone died sometime after Brad Penny hit a grand slam but before he had been placed on the disabled list as a result. I've spent a few hours processing, and have spit out some fake bullet points:

Brad Penny hitting a grand slam is awesome. Pitchers have a .382 OPS this year—don't compare that to Brendan Ryan's, you can thank me some other time—so if you're a fan of the replacement level concept this is the big score, one of the few big scores that doesn't require laser-armed security systems, giant diamonds, or drug cartels.

The Cardinals, for all their extra batting practice, are actually below the league average this year, even with one of the NL's four pitcher home runs. They're hitting just .119/.160/.178, with even Adam Wainwright struggling in the early going. Before you blame them, realize that this, too, could be Mark McGwire's Fault (which is the title of my new self-help book); last year Cardinals pitchers had a .404 OPS against the league's .355, and before that .432 to the league's .354, which is extremely impressive (and thanks mostly to Wainwright, Braden Looper... and Mark Worrell.) 

Brad Penny going on the DL isn't awesome, but isn't so bad, yet. I don't know what ten days looks like in pitcher-injury years, and we have to price into our senses of dread and relief the (unlikely) idea that this might be a strained-oblique-style ten days and we never see Brad Penny's socks again. 

But very few pitchers make 35 starts in a season, and these Cardinals were definitely (hopefully) not built on the assumption that Brad Penny, who looks like an innings eater but has not always eaten innings, would do it. P.J. Walters is an imperfect substitute, but as sixth starters go he's a lot of fun; I've always kind of hoped he would end up on a team like the Nationals, who could do far worse than throwing a guy with outstanding minor league results and no stuff out there 25 times. The Cardinals don't have that luxury, but since I've once compared him to fellow trick-changeup thrower Tyler Clippard and just mentioned the Nationals it's worth saying that guys like these can occasionally transcend novelty. If this helps Walters do it, that might be worth one Brad Penny start. 

Kyle Lohse going on the DL wouldn't be awesome, even though it's not so bad now. Maybe it's just because he's my favorite play-in-one-act character, but I was holding out hope after every encouraging start that he'd move toward his career levels and become a useful pitcher again. 

This, I guess, is one of the problems of just-average starting pitchers getting long-term deals, which seems to go in and out of fashion with the prevailing economic trends. Durability is great, but players get worse at it when they age like most other valuable skills. Lohse's big contract could be partially recouped if he turns into a guy who floats around a 100 ERA+ and makes 30 starts, but it's not clear that he'll be able to make 30 starts at any point in this contract. 

Star-divide

That said, the difference between the Kyle Lohse we hoped to get and his replacements—the sixth and seventh starters, depending on how long Penny is away—is pretty stark, and one I wasn't hoping the Cardinals would have to explore. I'm excited about the prospect of seeing Adam Ottavino (probably) in the major leagues, but that excitement is less about what he'll do now than what he has a small chance of doing in the future.

Felipe Lopez is awesome. Having Lopez around as a stopper on slumping infielders makes me understand how managers like Tony La Russa eventually get entirely too attached to much less effective utility infielders, the Mike Gallego class. Felipe Lopez hasn't made Brendan Ryan a better hitter, or removed the limitations Skip Schumaker possesses as a starting second baseman, but with him around those problems seem both less significant and less likely to become season-long narratives. If you, like Tony La Russa, are prone to overvaluing the contributions of guys who hit for a decent average but offer no real secondary tools or defensive skill—well, it's enough to bring Aaron Miles back to Springfield, Missouri like a security blanket. 

Ryan Franklin is—no, I can't do it. In 2007 and 2008 we decided we couldn't say he was good; in 2009 we eventually learned that we couldn't say he sucked. I will only say, as a reluctant Anthropology minor, that the Ryan Franklin who has pitched 20 innings this season is the Ryan Franklin I'd like to see on a regular basis, and that some people in the baseball community think walking one batter in 20 innings is a desirable outcome. "Our culture values Ryan Franklin, relative to other cultures" is the new Ryan Franklin sucks! I plan to stop saying it some time in August, after it's proven to have a disastrous, ironic effect on his ability to string together six good months in a row. 

#

Programming note: Carson Cistulli, host of the Fangraphs podcast, charter member of the Colby Lewis fanclub, fellow alumnus of the MFA application process, was nice enough to ask me onto their podcast to talk about what it's like to write one-act plays about Kyle Lohse. I'd like to take this opportunity to say that in said podcast I appear to have given short shrift to John Updike's later work, which I also enjoy. My Father's Tears is out in paperback tomorrow! I can't wait to go to Barnes & Noble intending to buy it and then leave with the more attractively designed hardcover version! 

Comment 614 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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theory re: Penny

the injury got really genuine when he hit the Gettysburg Address. maybe that’s when he actually damaged himself? and if that were true would the GS have been worth it.

by CircumSwoop on May 24, 2010 6:47 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Lohse

I was all for signing him when they did, based not only on his great season, but also on the basis of his never having been on the DL. Forearm injuries can be mysterious. I even forget how he originally hurt it, but the treatment has obviously not been effective. I’ve always had a dim view of the medical staff. This makes it a little dimmer. It has been a year, hasn’t it? Anyone know of other pitchers who have had similar issues and what they did?

by vinniefromjersey on May 24, 2010 8:10 AM EDT reply actions  

he originally goy hurt

by taking a pitch to the forearm.

by Evilfrog on May 24, 2010 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

wasn't it a line drive?

Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.

- John Wayne

by Tackle Box on May 24, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you are both correct.

Bubbles was hurt more than once last year.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

the original injusry was a LD off his arm.

He just didn’t get outta the way fast enough.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

The "injury" happened that way too.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I remember him getting hit by a fastball

in the meaty part of his right forearm. IIRC, it was against the Royals. It hurt just to watch it.

by Hungry Jack on May 24, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe you're right.

I’ve slept since then and been drunk more than once.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

MAHAY

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

aw i thought it was bannister

"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."

by BVHeck on May 24, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

He was squaring to bunt in the 8th inning or so…he was pitching an absolute gem at the time. Gem-throwing Kyle Lohse has not been seen since.

by mojowo11 on May 24, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

HOWEVER,

it may have been while spinning.

Jeff Jordan's dad can beat up your dad.

by flipthebird15 on May 24, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

sabr help please

okay, i realize this is very naive but i need this for school and would be very thankful to everyone who takes the time to help out, answer only a part of the question, gives pointers, or post me links to read. here it is:

 - When using previous seasons data, what stats are best to use when trying to predict
                  a) number of HR a player hits in a season, and
                  b) a pitcher’s ERA for the season.
 - How should i restrict the domain for the training data (e.g. at least 150 AB, AVG of so much etc.)
 - What methods should I compare to see which one has the best results (assume you have all statistics/data mining methods available e.g. regression, clustering etc..

thanks to everyone in advance
p.s. Dan, sorry for trying to hijack this excellent post

by d-dee on May 24, 2010 8:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Taking a hack

-I think it’s simplest to just use single stats to predict here:
a) HR hit in previous season (or three year weighted average if you want to be a bit more rigorous)
b) Previous year FIP (or three year weighted average FIP)

-Playing time (and injury) is a big concern with HR especially, so you might want to pare the results by age and playing time as well.

-I think regression has proven best in these sorts of situations

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Considering your answers to #2, wouldn't HR/PA be a better predictor of HR success?

If you took HR/PA over a weighted 3 season average, and then used a 25%, 50%, and 75% injury/playing time factor I would guess you’d be pretty accurate at predicting HR’s for a season, much more so than just using the counting stats. Or, just use CHONE or ZiPS, which already do this for you…

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then you have to predict PA,

something that adds another level of work without (I think) adding much value.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

True

But if you’re already factoring in injury probability and playing time, aren’t you already doing that anyway? Might as well be as precise as possible if you’re having to do that work regardless.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

thanks guys for getting me started

i didn’t think of the three year weighted average, i could train on that and train once on the actual data from the three years and compare

i was thinking regression, possibly multiple. looking at the 2009 season the difference in HRs between Albert and Price is one, but the difference in ABs and IBBs seems substantial so i am thinking this needs to be accounted for somewhere. do you think AVG and SLG would help refine the result or they are irrelevant?

i was also leaning the way of OneR and a couple others so i can compare the performance of metrics separately, then together and then compare methods..

I would like to read more on CHONE and ZiPS, if someone can throw their favorite links to me, i’d be grateful.

i have yet to look deeper into pitching statistics
this is still a very vague idea and i appreciate any help, it will be my topic paper for my Master’s this december but it will be way simpler. it’s more about data mining and less about baseball, but i like baseball, the numbers are readily available. i’m not trying to rediscover anything, just white a small research paper

thanks again

by d-dee on May 24, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

"i was thinking regression, possibly multiple'

Just to clarify, I don’t think hazel means a statistical regression analysis. He means regressing to the mean. Check out that here

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on May 24, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well to do that you might need to go by seasons instead of by players,

because you would have too small a set of data points. Right?

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes

i’m trying to find a numeric rule
e.g. if AB>=250, AVG between so and so etc, then HR=that many

by d-dee on May 24, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

also

maybe it will work better if the HR number is a small neighborhood, i.e. i could discretize the result in sets of 5 so it will give you a range of HRs a player will possibly hit e.g. between 31 and 35, 36 and 40, 41 and 45 etc.

by d-dee on May 24, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is what you want to do

1) Gather a data set of pitchers and their stats from 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009
2) You need each pitchers total batters faced (PA), strikeouts/batters faced (K/PA), walks – intentional walks / batters faced (BB/PA), hit batters / batters faced (HBP/PA) fly balls allowed / all PA not ending with a strikeout, walk, intentional walk or hit batter (FB/BIP) and home runs / fly balls (HR/FB)
3) Take all pitchers with 150+ batters faced in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 and run multiple regressions with the Y-intercept set at zero for each of the stats I mentioned above. So you would use K/PA in 2006, 2007 and 2008 as the x-variables and K/PA in 2009 as the y-variable. Also add in the league average K/PA as an x-variable for the regression to the mean component.
4) Do that for each of the stats and use the coefficients of the regressions as the weights to give to 2006, 2007, 2008 and league average.
5) Once you have that stuff predict each players stats in 2009 using the aformentioned weights.
6) Once you have a recreated stat line estimate, plug it into the FIP formula, using a random PA number and converting that to innings. HR/FB has some skill, but also a lot of luck so thats why you include that in the regression.

So the FIP formula with the predicted numbers using the regression coefficients would be

FIP = ( (HR/FB * (FB/BIP * (500 - K/PA * 500 - BB/PA * 500 - HBP/PA * 500 ))) * 13 + (BB/PA * 500 + HBP/PA * 500) * 3 - (K/PA * 500) * 2 ) / ((500 - K/PA * 500 - BB/PA * 500 - HBP/PA * 500) - .3 * (500 - K/PA * 500 - BB/PA * 500 - HBP/PA * 500 - HR/PA * 500))/3

by vivaelpujols on May 24, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Depends on how many people you are predicting,

and how valuable it is to have “hits and misses” or to yield results closer to a larger population on average.

The thing with HR and FIP is that I was trying to get the prediction using a single stat.

HR/PA could definitely get you more accuracy, or even an average HR/FB% or an average home run distance to give you a true home run figure (ie. most of us knew Colby was a good bet to beat his HR projections because he hits a huge number of flies and when he hits homers he just crushes the fuck out of them).

I think tHR (true home runs) figures are given by the Hardball Times. I think they work by using average home run distance and subtracting home runs that would not have gone out in the majority of parks (or something like that).

Anyway, this could get really involved…

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was guessing that she was predicting one or two players to compare them to each other

Or something of that nature. If you were doing a whole population, predicting PA’s could get messy, but if you’re just predicting someone like Pujols, then it’s probably the best way to go, imo.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which projection system was it,

that used to just predict the top 15 HR hitters would all hit 38, because that was the average and there was so little chance they would improve on it?

I think it was CHONE but I can’t remember.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it was too

The only other one it could be is ZiPS…

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

i am open to that too

i haven’t thought of it from that angle

do you mean taking a certain player’s previous seasons to predict the current one?

that could also work for my paper. if it should prove to be easier to do, then i can do that

thanks to everyone for chiming in on this, your input is of tremendous help

by d-dee on May 24, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, that's pretty much what the projection systems do.

They taking previous data on the player in question, aging curves, and other relevant data and try to determine how that player will produce in the future.

I guess I wasn’t sure what you were trying to do…was your idea to try and predict one statistic (say HR) based on another statistic (say Batting Average)? I think you have a problem with selection bias for an experiment like that, imo, because there are only going to be very few stats that are on the same scale and correlate appropriately.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

basically

find a rule based on one or many metrics to best predict number of HR a player would have at the end of the season

E.g. if we construct a rule that says that if at the end of the season
a player has at least 200 AB, AVG of so and so, SLG of so and so, [insert other relevant metrics here] then at the end of the season he is supposed to have x HRs. With the best rule x should be as close to the actual number the player really achieves over the season as possible.
So e.g. we use several years of data for the entire MLB till 2008 to train and find a rule that predicts number of HRs according to AVG and SLF. In 2009 AP had AVG of .327, SLG of .658 → according to the rule he is supposed to have 45 HRs, in reality he had 47, and if that’s within an acceptable margin of error, great, we succeeded.

Use different KDD algorithms to construct the rule – regression, OneR, clustering etc. and then compare how well they really perform. The data mining part is not really my problem. My problem is finding out which stats are useful/relevant to HRs and what combinations of which stats may deliver good results.

And the same for pitching, trying to come close to the real ERA by combining stats into a function.

Does that make sense? makes sense in my head but i’ve been told i am no good at explaining shit..

by d-dee on May 24, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds a bit circular if I’m understanding you.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 25, 2010 12:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

i don't understand the point of ERA

it’s a rate stat and already has an equation

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 25, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ok so you are trying to predict HR rate in the current season based off of other stats

That makes sense, although I don’t really see the point in it. I would use regression because that’s the easiest to do, but clustering would also work for that.

You have to pick stats that don’t already have HR’s in them though, or else you are just indirectly measuring home runs. Pick strikeouts, intentional walks, etc and see if they correlate with HR’s.

by vivaelpujols on May 25, 2010 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

the point is to fit an example

to data mining methods and compare the result.
baseball is only the context. i just want to make sure i am not combining stats that don’t make sense. therefore, your last paragraph is very useful. thanks

by d-dee on May 25, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, so I recently did a massive project using data mining and projection methods

Summarized here:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/projecting-hanson/

So that might be helpful to you. If you want, you could use the data set I used for that article.

by vivaelpujols on May 25, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

uhh...

why are you buying books from barns and noble?

by thecdude on May 24, 2010 9:32 AM EDT reply actions  

more than likely...

because it’s the only book store in a 50 mile radius.

by Evilfrog on May 24, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

correct!

springfield has a fantastic used bookstore, but as new books go barnes and noble both does a pretty good job and is the only game in town.

by DanUpBaby on May 24, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is the Borders gone?

Wasn’t there a Borders on Battlefield somewhere?

by chalk on May 24, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

springfield fail

illinois, not mo

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey scoot.....

I got an ankle / heel problem.
I don’t remember doing anything to it, but when I go to walk, it feels like someone is pinching me right below the ankle bone, but above the heel. It radiates more on the outside than inside….after taking about 30 steps, the pain subsides, but after I sit down, the prcess repeats itself. Thouhgts?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

need more info

what kind of pain is it? Sharp stabbing, burning, throbbing, dull ache, etc.

How far down does the pain radiate?

Any history of fractures or ankle sprains?

Are you talking about the outside of your ankle when you refer to ‘ankle bone’?

Just on the basic info you gave me, I’m thinking tarsal tunnel syndrome (similar to carpal tunnel, but for the foot/ankle) but I need to know more before I can give you anything solid

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stabbing pain,

like someone jams a needle right by the tendon. Right side, and by ankle bone I mean the “knobby” bone on the outside of my right ankle. The pain is just below that. I haven’t sprained in ankle in years, as most of my athletic activities are now 12 oz. curls. The best description I can give is that It feels like it’s getting pinched on bots sides as I walk, but the pain subsides after I walk it off a bit. If I sit down for 20 minutes at my desk and get up to go to the front of the shop, it’s back.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok

is anything tender to touch?

Just sitting there, is it more painful with certain motions? (Turning foot out, in, pointing toes down or up)

Do you have flat feet? High arches?

Sounds like something is getting impinged as you sit and as you move it works itself out.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nothing's really tender to the touch...

up & down movement is slightly tender, but it doesn’t hurt until I put weight on it. No flat feet or high arches, and I haven’t bought new shoes or something like that right before it started to hurt.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

best solution I can offer

is to keep it moving. Put a piece of plastic under your desk and slide your foot back and forth on it for a couple of minutes before you get up and see how that feels. The plastic will allow you to move it easily.

 Without getting my hands on it and feeling the restrictions it is difficult to tell exactly what is going on. But, a good rule of thumb is to identify what is restricted (moving up and down) and work into those restrictions. I wish I could give you more.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

COOL...THANKS.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

VEB does not employ experts to advise persons on the betterment of their lifestyle.

They just hang out here and they’re easy.
/disclaimer voice.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

did you just call me easy?

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that better than hot?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

depends

are we using the normal definition of hot or cardball’s definition?

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's for you to decide....

I just ask the questions.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

well

his definition implies that I am both physically attractive AND easy to get in bed.

Easy just implies that I am easy to get in bed.

I prefer neither option for fear of retribution from the missus

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you're saying,

that you’re an ugly SOB who may or may not be easily bed. Good to know.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

works for me

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

dr. scoot

what kind of a doctor are you?
so i know when to ask stuff

by d-dee on May 24, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

recommendation

a number of intriguing graphics made it into yesterday’s game thread. there is also the game-qua-game thread sum up around yonder.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 9:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Also, 2000+ comments

VEB: Where computers go to die

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, I summed up the game

I’m not summing that up.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

And iPhones

What happened to the days when 1000 comments was our overflow pitchcount? A ganethread CG is less impressive and more slow

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 9:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

at the time the game ended, it was about 1100.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

May I suggest Opera Mini?

It handles VEB far better than Safari.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sprint BlackBerry Curve 8530.

At least until June 4th when I pick up my new Evo. :)

I have an iPod Touch, too.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

A friend of mine

somehow got invited to the I/O last weekend, and got his hands on the EVO that was given out at the conference. Let’s just say: AWESOME. It’s also been rooted by others who were at the conference already. Engadget has a post on it.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just saw that post.

Very exciting. When I ordered my phone at Radio Shack, the guys there said a Sprint rep had just been in the store and that the phone was even faster than they expected. I’m pretty much giddy. They also said the rep told them to expect 4G coverage in St. Louis a few months ahead of schedule.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

god, i'm not sure i can wait until march to get my hands on one of these

can i touch yours at veb day, spants? haha

also, random (sort of sad) fact of the day. my sprint service is more consistent in kirksville than it has been here in st. louis. weird.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha

I only have consistent problems in a few spots on highways. Everything else is fine, usually.

This is my third 8530 as I had to swap in two other ones. The second one kept bricking itself and the first one had radio problems and was constantly searching for a signal. It was like having shitty cell service, but it was just the phone.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

i have a bit of trouble at work

but i also work in a basement. so yeah. and oddly enough. the 3G does weird things down at the stadium. i always have service, but the 3G sometimes goes in and out. kind of annoying.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, right. The stadium.

My friend with an iPhone has problems there, too.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

i blame the shitty seats

hopefully it won’t have issues on memorial day when i have 6th row bleacher seats. haha

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it's just all stadiums in general I think

40,000+ people in a small area can’t be easy on the networks. I can never get good reception at the Colisseum during the football games either

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on May 24, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was bad when I sat 20 rows off the field, 11 rows off the field,

and the three times I’ve sat in the 200s this season.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I must say

I get great reception on my iPhone at the Giants stadium, as one would hope.

by mojowo11 on May 24, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always had great Sprint coverage throughout St. Louis

except at my home. Especially in my home office. I’d have to walk around the house while talking to clients to try to get better reception.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

My brother has to leave his phone by the sliding glass door of the balcony

and wear a bluetooth headset when he’s at home.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm in Des Moines

So no 4G for me for quite a while :-(

That said, when I actually have apps for Evernote, Feedly, Facebook, and Twitter on my phone, I won’t need to use the browser as much, which will make my speeds seem somewhat faster.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

might want to check out the incredible

google pretty much withdrew the nexus one admitting that the incredible is the best android phone available

i’m still waiting on iphone 4g

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

which one?

I’m looking at getting the Droid from Verizon. Thoughts?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

incredible is supposed to be better

`

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you must have a keyboard, go Droid.

If I were on Verizon I would get the Incredible.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

For one, Verizon is what I'm on now,

and an iphone is not an option, as ATT has said they will never have 3g or 4g functionality up here (that and I have Apple issues.) The thing that sucks, is that the Incredible isn’t shipping until 6/14, the day after I leave for STL.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ya, the way this technology is jumping,

I’m really considering waiting a while to upgrade.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

One of my friends is a grad student in Quantum something-or-other

And is studying how eventually technology is going to be able to improve itself, and at that point, everything in the world is going to grow at an exponential rate

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on May 24, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

and we are going to have flying cars too…

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 24, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Technology pretty much is growing at an exponential rate as is

200 Mhz was state of the art 15 years ago for big ole desktop computers and now we have 1 Ghz cell phones.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on May 24, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not gonna happen

AT&T has the iPhone exclusively until 2012.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps AT&T has the iPhone 3G exclusively?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see anything there that refutes what I said.

Apple could build 25 million CDMA phones to launch Jan 1st 2012 if they wanted to. They just can’t have any working on any other U.S. carriers until that date.

All the WSJ article does is speculate on what carriers Apple is going to support in the future. It doesn’t say who, what, when, where, or how this is going to happen. For all we know from this article, they could be planning to launch CDMA phones in Europe with a carrier there or in Japan and China. Operating in those countries wouldn’t break their agreement with AT&T. Operating in the U.S. would.

From a business angle, they should support all of them, considering how much the App Store would make on the back end of all those purchases.

Personally, I think Android is going to catch and surpass Apple’s “cool” factor because it isn’t proprietary and can work on multiple platforms. The HTC Evo is a much better piece of hardware than even the speculated iPhone 4G is, and the Android software is leaner and is more adaptable than Apple’s interface.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is crap journalism, FWIW.

They took “Apple is contracting a CDMA phone build” and then jumped to the conclusion that they would be moving to Verizon and/or Sprint soon, even though nobody who has a manufacturing contract with Apple or either of those two carriers would comment.

We don’t even know if this information is good. Just that it came from a “source” close to the company.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

and i don't see anything here

that provides a source for your 2012 claim, which is all i’m asking for. because this far all i’ve seen is rumor and speculation. nothing from at&t or apple

The HTC Evo is a much better piece of hardware than even the speculated iPhone 4G

what specualted iphone 4g? do you have specs?

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Links

New iPhone speculation I’m not impressed. Unless it comes with the rumored 80 GB flash hard drive, (which I highly doubt, considering that Apple will be making less per phone if they go away from exclusive AT&T. The $600 per phone is why they went there in the first place.) I don’t see how it’s even comparable with the EVO or the Incredible. The one they found isn’t even 4G!

iPhone exclusivity agreement with AT&T : 5 years, signed in 2007 and running through December 31st 2011. That’s legally verified by the way, and could have been extended, as they point out, when negotiations were going down for the iPad 3G.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

There won't be a CDMA carrier in Europe.

And if there was, it’d be the first, I believe.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dunno if it's been mentioned below

the exclusivity expires this year.

However, that does not mean that there will be a CDMA Iphone.

by sdrone on May 24, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

No it doesn't. It expires at the end of next year.

See the link above from Engadget, which found the agreement for the state of California signed between the two companies.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Google said that because the Evo wasn't out yet.

They’re both made by HTC. There are minor differences, but the biggest differences are that Evo has a much bigger screen and it’s 4G.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

And it has HDMI out.

Which is the fucking coolest thing ever even if I never figure out what to do with it….

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

What does HDMI out do for you on a phone?

Does it have an HD camera or something?

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on May 24, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep. Shoots 720p.

8mp camera.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

720p, but heavily, heavily compressed.

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 24, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's still bound to be far better than a typical cell phone camera/video camera.

The lens is much bigger. I probably won’t take advantage of the HDMI out feature, but fourstick totally could.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't plan on shooting video

but I do plan on using it to carry Powerpoint and Lotus presentations for work and to watch the occasional short film….lol

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I shoot video all the time with my shitty cell camera.

I know I’ll use that feature.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

720P HD camera

AND it makes a handy tool for putting presentations and videos on your phone instead of having to carry another device for doing so. When you give as many presentations as I do, it would be nice not to have to cart my laptop everywhere.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good point

Plus if you had a beast mode SD card you could possibly use that as a portable DVR of sorts.

Everything I’ve heard about 4G so far though is that it’s not really faster than any of the upgraded 3G networks right now at around 2-3 Mbps, but will be within a couple of years at 6-10 once they get a legitimate network of it built.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on May 24, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

4G WiMax

is capable of 30MB speeds, but it will take a lot of infrastructure to get to that point.

South Korea just launched a “5G” network offering 15MB wireless speeds I believe.

Wouldn’t it be something to use a Slingbox to stream to your phone and then plug your phone into the 60" plasma at your buddies house?

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I need a towel

....my quick smells like french toast...

Twitter: @mstreeter06

by mstreeter06 on May 24, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

here's a review of its HDMI abilities

not exactly glowing. probably not something i’d use much, though

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2364134,00.asp

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds sucky.

The Evo will get Android 2.2 sometime this year, and maybe it will improve that experience. Shocking that it won’t let you view photos.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Android 2.2 is supposed to resolve all of those issues.

The phone was built with 2.2 in mind, actually, but Sprint wanted to move the date up because of the rumored iPhone launch.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Incredible doesn't have 4G.

I actually don’t like the color reproduction on AMOLED screens. I find it can be far too vivid. Plus the Incredible has had screen response issues.

The phones have the same resolution but the Evo has a half-inch more screen.

You can turn Sense UI off on the Evo but not on the Incredible.

The Evo shoots higher resolution video and has a front-facing camera for video chat.

And finally, the Evo has a kick-stand built in.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

same numbers of pixels on a smaller screen

equals better resolution

i read the 4g thing wrong. that’s pretty glaring

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right right.

They’re both great phones. The Evo just has more.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

i’ll say evo is the best android phone now. still waiting to see what apple comes out with before i make a purchase

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't blame you.

I’m sure the iPhone is going to be awesome. I just don’t want anything to do with AT&T and I dig Android.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

at&t sucks

really, as an apple hater, i’d be thrilled if the iphone 4g isn’t all that. and i’d love a reason to switch to sprint. 4g in my area and the mobile hotspot functionality is a pretty strong selling point

i also see that sprint is dropping their usage caps on the 4g network. iphone 4g is announced june 7. i guess i’ll decide around then

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

looks like

the cheapest unlimited data plan from sprint is $70 compared to $100 from at&t

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sprint is much cheaper, but they're charging Evo users $10/month.

That’s even if you aren’t in a 4G area. Still cheaper than AT&T though.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

unclear on the hotspot thing

do you have to pay extra for that or with just the normal 4g plan, you can connect you laptop to your phone’s internet?

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've heard different things.

I’ve heard from a Sprint employee that it may be included with the $10 extra, but I’ve read $30 online.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

awesome

so, $80 for 450 minutes, unlimited data and text and mobile hot spot

we may have a winner

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

will sprint have these

in store to play with already?

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

no

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go play with an Incredible.

Very similar software and the Sense UI should be the same.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's so sweet.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

The on-board memory doesn’t concern me when I can put a 32 GB microSD card in….

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed.

I’m thrilled it’s shipping with an 8GB card. Also forgot to mention that AMOLED sucks outside.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

When does the evo come out,

and will it be a Verizon phone? That’s the only carrier worth a damn out here.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

It comes out June 4th and it's Sprint only.

You could get the Incredible on Verizon.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, then I suppose that's my best option....

I don’t think Sprint even has a network here.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you have a Wal-Mart nearby?

There’s a rumor running amok that Sprint will be building towers on top of Wal-Marts.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

But who knows if that when that would happen.

Just get the Incredible. I’d be all over that phone if I had Verizon.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is there anywhere that isn't

near one of those blights on society?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is a very clever idea.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is, but it wouldn't work all over,

For example, the Wally World is within 500 ft of the Airport here, so there is no way they would ok a tower.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, some cities have ordinances against them or something

chicago and new york, for instance, don’t have them

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

For both sides

WalMart isn’t exactly the destination for classy appearance so it’s not like they lose anything yet gain what would probably be some hefty license fees.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on May 24, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

If there is anything the internet needs more of

It’s conversations about the relative merits of Wal-Mart

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on May 24, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

what about nekkid lady pictures?

"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."

by tom s. on May 25, 2010 2:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Mine handled it okay.

But that is pretty insane.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Was Mather whispering sweet nothings

Into lopex’s ear after the walk off?

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 9:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Brendan Ryan: The Replaced.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

after,

before, during. The guy just can’t take “NO” for an answer.

by Evilfrog on May 24, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

OT: just a little

National League went 22-20 by my calculations.

by Evilfrog on May 24, 2010 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

AL dominan...

wait, what?

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

All the games were in NL parks...

the NL underperformed again.

Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...

by guayzimi on May 24, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I assume you are joking

7 series in AL parks (home team went 2-5 yesterday), 7 series in NL parks (home team went 3-4 yesterday).

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

No I wasn't joking...

I thought all the series were in NL parks… I guess it was just the ones I was paying attention to.

Now I feel a little better.

Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...

by guayzimi on May 24, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

You missed mike Shannon

Complaining of the Sabrmetrics of weather

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 9:47 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

It was also fun listening to him tie himself in knots bitching about sunglasses for the umpteenth time.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

anyone have any thoughts on Albert being pissed off that Tony sent Ludwick to steal second while Albert was up to bat (Ludwick made the last out of the inning)…Tony yelling at Albert in the dugout " I effin’ know how to manage !"

by knifecakes on May 24, 2010 10:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Discussed at length in the game thread...

I think it could go either way. Albert stealing third on his own was even more egregiously bad decision – he apparently went on his own. That said, it worked out well.

Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...

by guayzimi on May 24, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

TLR himself once said to me...

…not to confuse the outcome of a decision with the intelligence that went into making it. Of course, he was probably talking about good decisions generating bad results and not the opposite, but still.

Ok, maybe he wasn’t speaking to me specifically, but he was speaking at my law school. He was nice enough to sign my Contracts textbook afterward.

by dronemc on May 24, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's awesome.

I wish you would have been posting during some of the results vs. rationale arguments that have erupted over TLR decisions in the past on this very board.

If I had such a treasure, I would display it in a glass case like a 500-year-old artifact.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

someone was confused after buying a used

Contracts textbook from the bookstore, then huh?

"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."

by tom s. on May 24, 2010 11:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

this makes me wonder

how many of you have met/run into members of the cardinals

my mom, on one of here annual tours of as many ballparks as she can in a couple weeks, was staying at the same hotel as the cards and saw a huge group, something like luddy, skip, carp, waino and holliday in the lobby (i actually don’t remember which beyond luddy, but you get the point). ‘course she didn’t even say anything to any of them, but i was jealous

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

My husband met Ozzie Smith and told him "You were my wife's favorite player."

I told him that he gave Ozzie Smith a back-handed compliment.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 25, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I once shared a ride with Stan Musial from the airport to our carpark.

I didn’t say anything to him either. It was late and he looked quite tired. This was probably 16-17 years ago now.

He was wearing a WS ring and his HoF watch.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 25, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've met Todd Worrell. He's a great guy.

I’ve also met Andy Benes. Eh.

Not a baseball Cardinals player, but I met Dan Dierdorf about 5 years ago. Dude’s head and hands are freaking enormous! He was having a hard time getting around though.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 25, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've met Cal Eldred multiple times

He used to do (still does) pitching clinics for players in Iowa as he’s originally from the state and still lives here part time.

I’ve met Tony at two baseball related offseason events and ran into Al at Hrabosky’s ONE time about 10 years ago.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 25, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've met

Al, Simontacchi, and Jack Clark.

by WyoCardsFan on May 25, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Unicorns do turn into the best bacon

After you cut em up and stuff.

The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun

by mob16151 on May 24, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mmmmmm...Bacocorn...

;=8)

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on May 24, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I missed the discussion yesterday.

I’m of the opinion that these things happen during the course of a season, especially when you have intense individuals who have big egos and want to win. That said, Pujols is right. Ludwick stealing was stupid—whoever had the idea. If TLR sent Ludwick, or gave him the green light, then I would imagine he would back down a bit, after reflecting on the decision and recognizing its complete and utter stupidity.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Albert should worry about Albert...

and leave the managing to Tony.
Everybody loves Albert but he’s made a few dumb decisions of his own. He’s been lucky in a lot of them.
 If Albert feels like being aggressive on the bases it’s ok with Albert, but if Tony (or Ludwick) want to be aggressive…and it doesn’t turn out well should Albert get pissed?
Right now Albert has been hitting more singles and fly balls than anything else. He’s not been the Albert that we all know…and this team needs to make things happen if the can’t rely on Albert’s long balls. So if it was Tony’s call to send Ludwick (and I don’t know if it was or not), It’s Tony’s call…and he may not have made that decision if Albert was the real Albert.
 Last week (i think) Albert was on 2nd and Holliday didn’t run on a dropped 3rd strike. Albert was livid about it. That’s legitimate! That was lack of hustle, but a guy trying to steal and getting thrown out (maybe not the best decision) isn’t lack of hustle, it’s trying to be aggressive…just like Albert when he runs through signs or takes it upon himself to try to make something happen. He probably wouldn’t have bitched if Ludwick had been safe.

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I were the manager,

it is highly unlikely that I would attempt to steal second base with Pujols at the bat, especially with Ryan Ludwick. In the current situation, as you point out, Pujols has had a relatively unproductive month at the plate. In this situation, with first base occupied, he is more likely to get pitches that he can drive. TLR is constantly shifting the lineup to “jump-start” other players, but then he doesn’t allow Pujols to hit in an otpimal situation for him. It’s bizarre. In addition, Ryan Ludwick is not good at stealing bases. At all. In fact, he probably should not ever attempt a straight steal. He is 16-for-31 stealing bases in his career. That’s awful. Even at the time of the steal attempt, when Ludwick was 16-for-30, I would never attempt to steal second base with 2 outs and Albert Pujols batting when the would-be base-stealer has a career stolen base percentage of 53.33%. If TLR gave the steal sign, his decision was absolutely moronic.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with all of that.

Somehow I doubt that it was Tony’s decision, but it could have been. But if it was, Albert should still leave the managing to the manager. Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you, that’s just how it is.
I’m not really a big TLR fan but he’s the manager. If he takes heat for something it should be from above, not from his players.

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he makes a stupid decision like that, you're damn right he should be called out by a player.

Just in the clubhouse, after the game, so it can be discussed constructively.

If he sent Ludwick that’s a stupid baseball decision, it just is. My guess is that he sent him, because Albert would have known that the steal was on due to the signs and otherwise wouldn’t have dressed down Tony because of it. This ain’t Little League — these are grown men. Tony should be called out when he makes a stupid decision, whether it’s Mo, DeWitt, or one of his players.

Same thing with pinch hitting for Ludwick in the Arizona baseball game last year. It was a stupid decision and it took him nearly a week to admit it, but he finally did admit it. If nobody pointed these things out, perhaps he would continue to make stupid decisions thinking that everyone agrees with him. This is the “White Tower” corollary, in which people continue to make bad decisions based on the fact that others are a afraid to disagree with them. It doesn’t do anybody any good.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I respectfully disagree with some of that.

I do agree that if there is a discussion about a questionable play by the manager it should be in private.
But, although there is a LOT to dislike about Tony, he’s got an awful lot of wins under his belt.
Not to say that he shouldn’t be questioned about his decisions…surely he should.
If I, as a manager, make a dumb decision I wouldn’t have any problem with a player coming to me and asking “what the hell was I thinking?” I’ll tell him what was behind my decision. But If you’re going to do it in front of God and everybody then you’re out of line.
Tony has a pretty good record of not belittling his players to the public. A good manager won’t chastise his players publicly, he’ll take it up with them in the clubhouse or in his office. He deserves the same respect.
It has the potential to be poison if it’s done in public.
 What I don’t like about Tony is his surely, intimidating attitude in the press conferences after the game. If I were in the room I’d ask him any question I want. I don’t play for him, I’m not on his team and I want to know what’s in his head during the game. But I’d ask in a civil manner…and I wouldn’t expect a surely answer like he often gives.
That’s when Tony should expect to be questioned in public.

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't like this line of reasoning:
But, although there is a LOT to dislike about Tony, he’s got an awful lot of wins under his belt.

Relatedly, then:

There’s a lot to dislike about Mike Ditka, but he won a lot of games in Chicago, so we shouldn’t give him a bunch of shit for trading away 2 entire drafts to get Ricky Williams.

There’s a lot to dislike about Lou Piniella, but his players should just trust him because he’s been successful other places (Cincy and Seattle, not Tampa or the NYY) and moving a $90M starting pitcher into the bullpen was the right thing to do.

There’s a lot of dislike about Dusty Baker, but he won a lot of games in San Francisco and Chicago, so we shouldn’t blame him for burning up every young pitcher he’s ever come into contract with before they turn 30 years old.

Absolute, blind trust is just bad business anyway you slice it. I don’t base my faith on LaRussa on his record as a manager. That’s for the HOF voters and TLR loyalists to do. My guess is that if Tony was managing the KC Royals they wouldn’t be much better than they are right now, because players win games, and TLR has been blessed with a lot of good players over the years. I’m going to guess that Trey Hillman would switch places with Tony ANY time.

I base my faith in him on how he manages this ballclub and whether he puts the team in a position to win. More often than not he does this. But he’s going to make mistakes, he’s human. Part of the surliness that you see in the press conferences is that he doesn’t think that he should have to answer to anybody for the decisions that he’s made and that he doesn’t like to be second guessed. That’s fine, but to rationalize a bad decision instead of just admitting it looked good at the time but upon further evidence proved to be a bad decision is just throwing good money after bad and not learning anything from how the situation turned out, good or bad.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

We're beginning to beat a dead horse here.

There are lots of successful assholes, no doubt.
I agree with a lot of what you say and I am not a big TLR fan. In fact, I don’t think he’d have near the wins that he has without all the big guns he’s had. You’re absolutely correct about that. I’d take Herzog any day over Tony, and it’s just wrong that Whitey didn’t go in the HOF in the first ballot and Tony probably will. Herzog is a far better manager.
Both of them won with the teams they were given. They had to be doing something right. Herzog could win with a powerhouse team or a team full of banjo hitters. TLR can probably only win with big hitters.

But here’s my point, then I’m done:
In my opinion, players and managers should NEVER make a public display over a bad decision. Keep it private. The fans know what they’re seeing, the writers know what they’re seeing. It’s all right there on the field in plain view for everybody to see and you can’t hide it.
There’s a proper place for internal affairs and it should be kept internal.
When it spills out of the clubhouse it CAN’T be a positive thing for the team and CAN be counter-productive.
Cases like Gary Templeton are the exception.
If you question something your boss does do you pick the lunchroom to discuss it or his office? And does he really have to explain his moves to you anyway? It’s HIS job and HIS team. His performance speaks for itself and so does yours. You can each make the other look bad if you want, but if you do then you’re not much of a team player.
That’s my “old school” opinion.

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

P.S.

It’s nice to have a good conversation without getting nasty like a lot of folks do.
Thanx!

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I HATE JASON MARQUIS!

There! I said it!
:=8P

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on May 24, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this:
In my opinion, players and managers should NEVER make a public display over a bad decision. Keep it private.

I thought I made that pretty clear. It should be private and handled professionally, but I can understand when emotions get in the way with someone like Albert, who is clearly struggling right now (for him, he’s still Zeus compared to the rest of us) and probably resented having his AB taken away from him.

But that begs the question: How should Fredi Gonzalez have handled the situation with Hanley Ramirez?

It’s clear that Hanley felt he was being shown up by his manager because he’s the best player and an example was being set by his treatment. That example being “nobody is above scrutiny from the manager no matter how talented”. I don’t agree with what Hanley did, but I also don’t agree with how Fredi handled it. It should have been discussed in the clubhouse and Hanley should have been informed that he would not be in the lineup the next day due to his lack of hustle. Informing a guy 2 hours before gametime by posting the lineup instead of talking to him is just asking for a bad reaction.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

We're on the same page here.

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

BTW

Do you think the Cards are going to keep Albert…and/or Tony?
does one depend on the other? Does Albert still want to stay in 2 more years? Does it depend on If TLR stays? How, if anything, does Holliday play into it?
What’s the upcoming scenario?

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's too much to get into in one comment

although I’ve been known to write some pretty epic comments here….

In short, I think Albert wants to stay and that Tony will be the manager here until he’s at least 2nd in all time wins, which would put him here through around 2016 or so if my math is right.

Holliday plays in because one of Alberts stipulations is that the team is built to win and money is being spent to win games.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

That'd make Tony pretty long in the tooth by then.

How surely would he be in 2016?
I can’t see him managing that long, especially if Duncan decides to leave.
 I often wonder if Oquendo would ever get the nod. I’d like to see him get a chance somewhere.

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't call me shirley

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

what did I do, spell it wrong?

ok, how contrite would Tony be in 2016?

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

The issue isn't with Albert being upset.

The issue is that it was a really stupid baseball play.

If you’re successful, you’re enticing the other team to take the bat out of your best hitters hands and put him on, which leads to a lower run expectation when there are two outs in the inning. If you get thrown out you’ve taken the bat OUT of your best hitters hands, who could score you from 1B with an extra base hit. If this was a highly effective basestealer it would be one thing, but Ludwick is below 75% career stealing bases — he’s 16 for 31 in his career. So he doesn’t do it often, and when he does he’s got a horrible success rate. If you can’t steal at a 75% rate or better you shouldn’t steal at all, and if you can’t steal at a 95% rate or better you sure as hell shouldn’t be running with your team’s best hitter at the plate.

It’s just a bad decision. He got a terrible jump, so he should have gone back to first base.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

No argument here.

It was a dumb call by somebody….but Albert gets paid to hit and right now I wouldn’t call him our best hitter….except on paper.
It was a bad thing all around, but I’m just saying that if it was Tony’s call It was his call. I don’t know what goes on between Tony and Albert after Albert makes one of his adventurous moves on the bases and gets thrown out. But Tony should have the right to make the call…..everybody makes dumb moves now and then. But ultimately, it’s the manager’s team, not the players. And if the players are struggling then the manager has to do whatever he thinks is best. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. But If I’m the manager I’ll make the decision and take the heat from my boss…but not from my players.

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Albert is questioning his right to make the call.

He was simply stating that the call was dumb, and he has a right to point that out. In hindsight, even Tony would have to think that this call was a pretty fucking stupid one when considering all the angles.

LaRussa sometimes makes snap decisions in situations that aren’t in the best interest of the team. This has been pointed out before. Nobody is saying that TLR is perfect, except for TLR. If he has a problem with a player saying that was a stupid decision (when that’s exactly what it was), then he’s not going to be an effective manager.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

the bat didn't get taken out of his hands....

just the opportunity to drive in 2 runs.
what did he do in his next at bat? Can he only hit with men on base?

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was the bottom of the eighth.

That’s the point. The bat was taken out of his hands when there were no more ABs coming for Albert in the game.

Box score.

Jobu needs a refill

by lightbulb on May 24, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you. Exactly.

How does Albert bat in the bottom of the ninth in a winning game at home?

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Franklin comes in to close?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not this season's model.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

We said something like that

this time last year, as well.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well now we're on a tangent.

The answer to my question is that Albert cannot bat in the 9th unless Tony was planning on Franklin failing.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

a tangent, on VEB?

Is this a first?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

VEB: Thank God for threaded commenting.

"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."

by BVHeck on May 24, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

the point is indeed it was the bottom of the 8th, and we had a 4-run lead

do you think tony was trying to add insurance there, because that goes against everything he’s shown, such as letting a reliever bat in similar situations. and if he was trying to add a run, then letting pujols hit would be the way to go, and i think every big-league manager can figure that out, including tony.

what if he didn’t want pujols to bat? by sending luddy he guaranteed that. if luddy is safe, they walk pujols. if luddy is out, we move to the ninth with a 4-run lead needing 3 outs for the win. tony tends to think long-term, and that pitcher was wild – he almost hit luddy, and then did, which is why luddy was on first. i don’t think tony wanted to take any chances with albert getting hit in a meaningless at-bat with the game in hand.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll have to pay attention to see if Tony

sends Luddy every time he gets HBP in front of Albert.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

in the bottom 8th and 2 outs with a 4-run lead would be the key to look for

it’s not much different than when he pinch-runs for albert in similar situations – he’s not doing it to put more speed out there and try to get another run, he’s just protective of his mvp. if there’s one thing tony has consistently shown, it’s that he’s always willing to live to fight another day.

do you ever see tony steal on a team in that situation, defensive indifference not included? he’s taken plenty of intentional outs before, such as instructing relievers not to swing, and that looked about as intentional as they come. sure, he could have pinch-hit for albert, but i think he wanted his defense on the field for the last inning.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't buy this AT ALL.

Ludwick is more likely to get hurt attempting to steal, for one thing, and if this is the case, wouldn’t Albert have been read in on it before the at bat?

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

not sure if it was possible to inform albert

he was on-deck when holliday made the second out, and went to the plate. it may have been at that moment that tony decided to “call it an inning”. i’m sure tony was hoping for a hit from holliday, but maybe a GIDP wouldn’t have bothered him either. anyway, once holliday made the out, the situation changed.

i consider tony very conservative, and it would be rare to see him aggressively trying to tack on runs in a game he feels is in hand. he didn’t try to steal luddy when holliday was up. and he knows that when first base is open, apu gets walked, which is why he doesn’t steal in that situation. so why did he this time? it could be he went against his own nature while at the same time having a mental lapse, or it could be he had an ulterior motive.

if he comes out and says he made a mistake, as he’s done in the past, fine. because if the move was intended as strategy to score a run, then it was a mistake. if it was intended as i suggest, then i wouldn’t expect to hear anything more about it, because he’s just not going to come out and say that. he would inform albert, of course, that he does indeed know how to manage, because this was what he was trying to accomplish, and albert would say, “ah, gotcha”, but albert is also not going to come out and say that to the press – you don’t talk about making outs on purpose, even though it happens, and this was pretty close to that.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ryan Franklin is having SuccessOfWhichWeMustNotSpeak

He’s been pretty good.

Alas. I’ve said too much.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 10:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Just had to tempt it , didn't ya?

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

f'n TC.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know what you're talking about.

Who is this “Ryan Franklin” of which you post? Does he play baseball? Is he good? Does he suck? This subject makes me uncomfortable. Can we talk about something else? How about the forthcoming week’s match-ups? We play the Padres and then the Cubs, for the first time. Those ought to be some interesting games.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

i think he means kyle mcclellan

"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."

by BVHeck on May 24, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

he's exponentially better than last year at this moment

his 0.8 WAR of this year is only 0.1 off what he amassed all of last year. hell, even his xFIP is down 0.75 points from last year.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

SHHHHHH!

(exactly. his k/9 is about his career norm, but his walks are way down. he’s getting more groundballs, and his BABIP isn’t out of whack. the odd thing is how much more he’s throwing the curve.)

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

completely agree

the fact that he’s doing well doesn’t scare me as much as the fact that it’s actually sustainable. the only stat i saw that was due for regression was his hr/fb ratio. but even then, franklin more than showed that he can keep the ball in the park with his absurd 3.2% hr/fb ratio last year. even if it does regress to league average (VERY unlikely), his FIP only rises 1.2 points. which is significant, yes, but not tragic. and like i said, it’s very unlikely franklin starts giving up home runs at a league average rate.

we need to start giving franklin the credit he’s due. he’s been damn impressive so far this year.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reliever statistics are highly volatile,

because of their tiny work loads. I don’t think that last year proved much regarding Franklin’s HR/FB ratio. Taking as an example, Trevor Hoffman. His HR/FB rates: 3.2%, 14.3%, 7.4%, 4.2%, 7.2%, 2.3%, 13.8%, 3.1%, 19.4%. That is quite a fluctuation. I chose Hoffman because he has had a fastball that has had a speed similar to Franklin. It’s arbitrary, but symoblic of the profession as a whole. Even the great Mariano Rivera saw his HR/FB rate spike to 15.2% in 2009. With relievers, there are dramatic peaks and valleys. It’s the nature of the business.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh, i agree with you

just saying that franklin showed last year that he’s capable of such a “valley” so expecting his hr/fb ratio to jump to league average overnight just isn’t that likely.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

2010

In 2010, Ryan Franklin has allowed 20 FBs. Lets say the first batter of his next appearance uncorks a dinger on him (feel free to smirk and/or giggle at that phrase). That HR would raise Franklin’s HR/FB to 4.8%. Now, league-average is usually about 10% (which also happens to be Franklin’s career average). I think this example helps explain the peaks and valleys. When you are dealing with so few innings pitched, a fairly significant uptick can happen rather quickly.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

well you prove your point well

but it’s still early in the year. franklin is just as likely to get 20 more FB’s without a home run as he is to give up a home run to his next batter.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

He’s not equally likely to do that.

Given that league average is around 10% HR/FB, that Franklin is below that number, and that history demonstrates that every pitcher (even Mariano Rivera) tends to regress to at least one standard deviation of that league average no matter how good they are, Franklin is much more likely to give up a homer before he gives up 20 more fly balls that aren’t home runs.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

As much as I hate making bets AGAINST Cardinal players

I think I’ll have to take this one. ::Checks schedule:: Yup, I’m in — we play @CIN and @ARI for a 3 game set twice in the next month. I think the odds are in my favor for sure considering that.

What are we betting?

The wager:

  1. If Ryan Franklin gives up a home run within his next 20 fly balls in play, I win.
  2. If Franklin does not give up a home run within his next 20 fly balls in play, you win.

I relinquish all blame for said home run costing the Cardinals a win, btw.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's the likelihood he even gives up 20 flies in the next month?

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no idea

he’s given up exactly 20 so far this season in 20 innings, so it will probably be the all-star break before he gives up 20 more. But I’m guessing that he’ll get at least two games in those two stadia, and they just happen to be the places where he’s given up the most homers since joining the Cardinals.

We also have games at Wrigley in June, and it’s a homer haven during that month.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno...

BR has him as giving up 2 home runs in his last 74. Not saying it isn’t luck, but still…

Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...

by guayzimi on May 24, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

And.....

both of those were in Cincy, in the same series, during May of 2010.

It’s not completely luck, he’s getting more ground balls and producing more weak contract. But to predict that rate to continue really flies in the face of a ton of historical evidence to the contrary.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Errr

May of 2009.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah...

I agree. But betting on 20 more without a HR is cutting it a little close. I’d take that bet as well.

Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...

by guayzimi on May 24, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a good bet for both sides, really

It’s essentially betting on whether he’s been lucky or whether he has a skill in suppressing homers over the last 15 months. I think it’s the former.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd say it's a bad bet against.

You’re betting under a 5% HR rate when league average is 10% and it’s not clear that Franklin is better than that. Even if he is you still have a substantial 5% cushion in which he could beat league average but still lose the bet for you.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm betting that he gives up a homer within his next 20 FB's

You’re not factoring in the some homers are classified as line drives, which gives me even more of an edge….

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I meant the proverbial you.

This bet is intertubes money in the bank!

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

you're on

and i’m not sure what we’re betting for, you can decide that.

also, watching the video for that phone right now. AHH!!!

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

also

you sure as hell better be hoping ludwick gets RED HOT sometime in the next month. otherwise there’s no way he’s OPSing at or above 1.000 at the all star break.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Red Hot? Hardly!

He’s at .843 right now and he’s played exactly half of the games that the Cardinals will play before the ASB.

Which means he only needs about a 10 game stretch of .980 to put him up at around .900. He’s already had one 10 game stretch like that this season, and if Albert and Holliday ever start hitting consistently it will only help his cause.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW

Last 14 Days:

.348/.423/.587/1.010

I’ve got a fighting chance, for sure.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW #2

Ludwick in the Second Spot in the Lineup:

.303/.395/.524/.919

If Tony had just started him there at the beginning of the year, I’d be sitting pretty right now!

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

When you made that bet I thought it was insane,

but it doesn’t look quite so awful at this point. You’ve got…maybe a one in three chance of winning it?

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd say it's around a 40% shot

He’s better at home (a .999 OPS right now) and the games left are roughly split between home and away (currenlty .667 OPS). I would wager that his road OPS almost has to improve SOME so even if his home OPS regresses toward .900 (where it was last year) he’s bound to make a run at .900 overall by the ASB, barring injury.

It was really a wager that Tony would put him back in the second spot where he was so effective in 2008. I had a inkling that Rasmus would be hitting 5th and Freese (or Floppy) 6th, so that leaves Ludwick to hit second and he mashes when he hits there.

I also thought that the Holliday signing would take some of the pressure off of him to be “the other guy besides Pujols” who’s expected to produce at an All-Star level.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Ludwick's HR/FB moves away from league average,

and toward his career rate, that would push you into favored territory, although I haven’t seen data to suggest that it should.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me neither

I actually think finding his gap power stroke is going to be the key factor. He hit 40 doubles in 2008 but only 20 last year. He’s got 10 so far this year. If he can get to 20 doubles by the ASB and hit another 6 homers, he’d be right around .910 unless his OBP drops precipitously over that time.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

If ludwick learned some patience he would easily get there

But he a skip are so Hal McRae

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 1:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Skip?

Don’t look now, but Skip is walking at the highest rate of his career, as bgh points out in his fanpost.

Ludwick is also right up there in terms of taking walks at 9.5% this season. He’s also seeing the most P/PA of his entire career in 2010, even higher than he did in 2008 when he had his breakout year.

The only guy who’s BB% is down significantly this year of the regular position players is Holliday’s, which is at 7.3% down from just over 10% last year.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

in all honest I am shocked

Those two seem like if they had a gun to thier head and were told to take a pitch they weren’t gong to survive that situation. Oh well, MOAR walks!

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

He certainly couldn't lay off the high FB

yesterday

"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning

by gocards62 on May 24, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

"He" = Ludwick

"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning

by gocards62 on May 24, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

ya it looked like he couldn't see it

because of weavers release point caused by the crazy 45 degree angle step to home. weaver left-handed would be a great LOOGY.

"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."

by BVHeck on May 24, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

err a left-handed weaver pitching style

would make for a great LOOGY.
Weaver himself left-handed would be even better than right-handed Weaver…

"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."

by BVHeck on May 24, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah...my fail

i was thinking it was 1.000, not .900. you’ve got a nice shot for it to happen.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

WAR is accumulative

So it can go down with bad performance

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on May 24, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

i know that

but franklin isn’t likely to suck enough that he makes his WAR go down.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not cool man.

Why don’t you just burn a voodoo doll of him instead?

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love how VEB mixes superstition and lore

with complicated statistics and calculations.

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 24, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's one of my

favorite features of the blog as well.

by WyoCardsFan on May 24, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

VEB: We suck.

"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."

by BVHeck on May 24, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

we're secretly Ryan Franklin?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have you ever seen us and Ryan Franklin in the same place at the same time?

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

ohshi—

I just checked the chin.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

the cardinals need to cut their losses on lohse and cut him

he’s obviously not healthy, and hasn’t been since early last year. we have a few guys in the system that can come up and be more effective than him, and having lohse on the roster just doesn’t make sense anymore, this year or the next two.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 11:00 AM EDT reply actions  

That would be the biggest shit sandwich ever eaten by a club...

I think the current record is $24 million by the D-Backs on Russ Ortiz.

Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...

by guayzimi on May 24, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't it pretty much a shit sandwich right now anyway?

Unless he has some miraculous return from the dead, he’s just a higher paid Welley. I had some relatively high hopes that he would do good this year, that turned to lightly optimistic, which has turned to a great deal of doubt. I guess for a club that held on to MM for as long as they did…what the hell.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

lohse's 2010 xFIP: 5.14

welley’s 2009 xFIP: 5.93

so not AS bad. but one’s like doing your sister and one’s like doing your mother. i’ll take neither, thank you.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

you really want the answer to that?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

he must be from alabama...

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 24, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Metaphor fail.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh. My. God.

Deeply, deeply disturbing that you would jump over “kissing,” a la (according to that bastion of truth wikipedia) Eddie Erdalatz, and land on “doing.” Yikes.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on May 24, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oprah, Barbara Walters, Your wife

you’ve gotta fuck one, marry one, kill one…GO!

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 24, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

marry boff kill

heh, 30 rock

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on May 24, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

they used that on 30 rock too?

I was pulling from step brothers. NBC might as well not exist for me

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 24, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

i thought so

but now i’m confused, because i dont remember that part of stepbrothers and i’ve seen it a couple of times.

"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."

by IHeartBoog on May 24, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Step brothers???

I know a lot of us college-type in Indiana were playin’ MFK welllllll before Step Brothers came out.

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 25, 2010 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

FMK

I thought it was a British thing, I’ve never heard of it in the states before. Guess I should watch more lousy movies.

by chalk on May 25, 2010 5:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, I'll retract the Welley remark.

Unless they can get him straightened out, he’s MM. Injured, ineffective, and high priced.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

But they could stick him on the 60-day...

and try again this September, or next March.

Cutting him seems unnecessarily drastic.

Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...

by guayzimi on May 24, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's why I said we could drag him along like we did MM.

How long did we keep him around after he got hurt?

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who's MM?

Matt Morris? Are you referring to the first TJ?

Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...

by guayzimi on May 24, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mark Mulder?

Does that ring any bells? That may be a dramatization or maybe it’s not. My optimistic level is not what it once was. I figure that it’s as bad or worse than I think it may be. He has a recurring injury in the same spot. Maybe it’s related to the first maybe it’s new, personally, I don’t believe in coincidence. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I’m pretty sure it’s not a f’ing dog. If it’s the same injury, then what’s to say that it’ll heal this time, he had all of last winter off. Which boils down to two things either he has a recurring injury that will prevent him from being an effective pitcher again, ala MM. Or, he’s going to become an inning eating 5th starter ala Welley, just not quite as hopeless. Either way, I would rather try to find another route to go down.

F’ing NTC.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow...

I really blocked that guy out of my mind… At first I thought your were referring to Mike Maroth. But then I figured it was someone else since he was here for about a month.

Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...

by guayzimi on May 24, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

clearly hiring pitchers with the initials MM is fraught

I should add that to the Naming Postulates.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shit sandwiches seem to get bigger every year.

sometimes it’s addition by subtraction.

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't Denny Nagle cost about 3% of the world's money supply?

An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.

HL Mencken

by akaitori on May 24, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

i was thinking of pavano with the yanks being pretty similar

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he could do a great train whistle, so it was ok

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 25, 2010 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Um. Mike fucking Hampton.

And it’s NOT EVEN CLOSE.

From 2004 to 2008, Hampton earned $74.8M, pitched 147 innings total (split between two years ’04 and ’08), and was worth exactly 1.1 WAR for those FIVE SEASONS.

If we’re talking shit sandwich contracts, Hampton’s deal with Atlanta is the McRib.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 25, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Um

If they cut Lohse they’ll be paying the man a huge pile of money to not pitch. That’s the very definition of wasted money. If they hang on to him, cross their fingers about his health, and see what happens, he could of course wind up a pumpkin. However, he could also be what he’s been most of his career, that being a 1.5-2 WAR pitcher. It’s not outstanding, mind you, but it’s better than piling up tens of millions of dollars and lighting it on fire.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on May 24, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are two sides here:

First, whether he is pitching or not, the money is gone. It’s a sunk cost, and should be considered burned already (I like to think Tony and Dave burned it in a bonfire at a seance to the ghosts of hurlers past).

Second, Kyle Lohse has sucked, but in order to make the argument that he should be cut immediately, you have to argue that another pitcher is a better option to pitch for us right now, and that there is no alternative to cutting Kyle.

I think Kyle should probably stay on the roster at the moment because he remains a crappy but seemingly serviceable starter who can still yield some value. His replacements are bigger risks than he is at this point, and we already have injuries to contend with. If the forearm issue is real (somehow it’s fine for the good start and barks after the crappy start), Kyle can be DLed and stashed until he gets things straight.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

We have to pay him

might as well wring all we can out of him.

by chalk on May 24, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah,

the only cost associated with paying him is the opportunity cost of his playing time, which is something that can be remedied through manipulation of the DL. If we pick up Chad Gaudin, however, I reserve the right to call for Lohse’s immediate disposal.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can they work out something with his agent to where we sign him ti MiL

as a try out basis and then up the ante if he makes the ML club? Or would that be considered an incentives based contract?

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's already been picked up.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

figures

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

when?

and by whom?

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope, he hasn't been picked up.

Unless it just happened in the last 2 hours and I am unaware of it.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 24, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought I read something about Oakland resigning him again,

but I must have misread something from earlier this year.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Think you may be on the wrong wavelength

Oakland did sign him in the offseason, but released him about 4 days ago:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/05/as-release-chad-gaudin.html

Hopefully that might be what you are thinking of.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 24, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

seems everybody but the team he plays for wants Gaudin

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 24, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

Which makes it odd that people here want him.

Is it Duncan’s Save-Them-From-The-Glue-Factory miracles?

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

somebody should teach him the Joel one-finger sinker

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 24, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joel taught him last year.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

so he'll be christy matthewson next season?

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 24, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

God I hope so.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

DanUp would love that

one act Lohse/Ghost of Christy Matthewson front-pagers

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 24, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

are you insinuating a player faking an injury

when we’ve had the exact opposite problem? his forearm barked in pre-game warmups but he tried to pitch thru it, as he did last year before they DL’d him. penny did the same thing – not disclosing the discomfort he felt the day after his last cincy start.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am indeed insinuating that.

He sucked for half a dozen starts, was good for one, and then sucked: it seems at least as likely that his forearm pain is fake or psychological as it is that it’s real.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 7:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

that's pretty much the worst thing you could accuse a pro athlete of

of course, if it’s true then it’s pretty much the worst thing a pro athlete can do. however, his history suggests he’s tried to pitch through this same thing before when it might not have been wise, and i know of no history of faking an injury. likewise, i think hawk’s groin is injured, and not some excuse he made after a bad outing – it probably has been all along, and he’s also tried to pitch through it.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting,

considering the number of fake instances of pitchers learning new pitches or finding out they’ve been tipping pitches. I’d say there are at least a few hundred worse things a pro athlete could be accused of, but hyperbolize away if you find it convenient.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, i'd be interested in a list

haven’t really given it much thought, but it still strikes me as one of if not the worst things he could do as a pro athlete (of course we’re not talking about murder, other things, but strictly in his role as a player).

learning new pitches or tipping pitches, if used as an excuse as you suggest, don’t come anywhere close to faking an injury and missing games, even going on the DL, which is in essence quitting.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

There have been a handful of "injuries"

That have landed ineffective pitchers on the dl. Kip wells had one, welley had one, and I believe pineiro had one in 2008. These things happen and it’s self righteous to call them the worst things an athlete can do. There is no such thing as time off for head clearing and roster convenience. DL time for insignificant injuries is a tool.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 11:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

but that is something a team orchestrates for their own benefit

it’s not a player faking an injury – i think it’s two completely different things.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

throwing a game is worse

but i haven’t come up with anything else that beats faking an injury. i don’t get how you consider that self-righteous unless you view them as acceptable – if you do, we just disagree.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 5:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

sex with an ant.

Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.

by Felonius_Monk on May 25, 2010 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

eh, that would have no impact on the game or team

hmmm…unless it was another player’s ant – that could affect clubhouse chemistry.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Week (and slightly humorously) put

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 1:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

*well

And f’ing confuse me if it posts double post

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 1:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Well (and slightly humorously) put

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 1:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah

Utocorrect can get a little interesting sometimes
/wishing I had a more clever response

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 1:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Nope.
  1. 4 years/$41M (2009-12)

    * signed extension 9/29/08
    * $1.25M signing bonus
    * 09:$7.125M, 10:$8.875M, 11:$11.875M, 12:$11.875M
    * full no-trade clause

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Cards can't just walk away from that.

They’d put him in the bullpen first.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough

i could get behind that move, if only to make him somewhat useful for the duration of the deal.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lohse -- another gamer

who didn’t/wouldn’t reveal the extent of his injuries (Rolen, Penny, et.al). We don’t need heroes; we need healthy players who can perform.

"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning

by gocards62 on May 24, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Does it seem like it happens more often here?

I would really like to see a study done on injuries to players who admit to having problems and not telling one.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Have you seen our training staff's track record?

I wouldn’t tell them if I had a little headache (CAREER ENDING MIGRAINE!!)

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 1:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Given this contract,

the club will wait to see if Lohse can get healthy, even if that wait is for two and a half years. And they should wait. They are going to pay Kyle Lohse $41MM one way or the other. Without a legitimate alternative for the rotation, they should pay him to get healthy and then pay him to pitch. I would suspect that no one has been a bigger critic of this signing than me, but cutting him now would be as bad a move as the initial signing.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Probably a worse move.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely a worse move

I’d call for Mo’s firing on the spot.

by mojowo11 on May 24, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

for sure

you just got to ignore this reactionary crap. lohse is not getting released and that the worst move.

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 24, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

By hanging on to him and using him they can at least hope to get something out of the guy, even if it’s just a guy to fill the fifth rotation spot.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on May 24, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

cutting lohse won't happen

as much as we all want it to. at least mo learned his lesson on signing one-year wonders to big contracts (we hope).

Best moment I've ever seen at a Cards game in person
@zoomzoomj88
Cardinals pitchers hit grand slams . Do yours?
Boog's reviving the 'stache!!! Woohoo!

by zoomzoomj88 on May 24, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think his problem is between his ears.

He looks defeated after the first pitch.
I’m not sure he’s physically hurt at all.
He reminds me a little of Marquis….the wrap on him was that he was hard headed and unteachable. They eventually took the ball away from him…in the playoffs.
I think it’s time to take the ball away from Lohse.
Hey, does Smoltz still want to pitch?

Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.

by Dave Pendleton on May 24, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

we've got a starter's spot for ya...

unfortunately i read on the mothership like a month ago that he’s not keeping in baseball shape.

"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."

by BVHeck on May 24, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Off days suck.

But league-wide off-days suck more. At least the only NL game today is of interest to us.

Go Pirates! Beat the Reds!

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 11:17 AM EDT reply actions  

i agree.

but if there was going to be one off day all year, i would have picked today. so i’m happy that if there has to be an off day, there’s one today.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Lohse we hoped to get"

It’s probably better to just contemplate the difference between the Lohse We Got and the minor league stopgap du jour, which in my opinion, can’t be that great (with potential for improvement over the Lohse We Got).

by olddomination on May 24, 2010 12:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Lohse

What’s equally frustrating is that his former teammate (and doppelganger) Carlos Silva is actually earning his shitty contract while pitching for the Northsiders. The contracts were essentially mirror images of each other (with the exception of the NTC, proving that Mo’s negotiation skills on this deal mirror those of George Bailey dealing with Mr. Potter), and Silva was fucking terrible for the first two years and now has seemingly righted the ship.

Optimistically, one hopes Lohse can do the same in the next two seasons in which he’s due nearly $24M.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Year 3

Isn’t Silva finally lucking into the value of his performance reaching the amount of his salary in this, Year 3 of his contract? So, we should be optimistic for 2011…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Homer Bailey Dusty'd

I don’t know if this was posted yesterday, but Homer Bailey left yesterday’s game with shoulder tightness.

Reds starting pitcher Homer Bailey exited his outing vs. the Indians on Sunday after only 2 1/3 innings because of tightness in his right shoulder. He will be evaluated on Monday in Cincinnati by team medical director Dr. Tim Kremchek.

However, concern was at a minimum that Bailey might be out for an extended period.

“We took him out for precautionary reasons. We think he’ll be all right,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said after the Reds’ 4-3 loss.

Dusty Baker then cackled insidiously and pointed to a graph that he apparently designed on his smart phone during the game, emailed to Kinko’s, and had delivered for the post-game press conference. Entitled, “24-year-old Homer Bailey’s 2010 Pitch Counts,” the graph had the following information:

4/09: 106
4/16: 115
4/20: 110
4/25: 105
5/01: 121
5/07: 94
5/12: 90
5/18: 110
5/23: 46

Baker then continued. “What start doesn’t belong? That’s right, the one with 46 pitches. The start where he threw the fewest pitches is the start where he experienced shoulder tightness.”

When a reporter asked about Bailey throwing 108 or more pitches in 6 of his 7 September and October starts in 2009, Baker replied that there was nothing wrong with having a 23-year-old throw that many pitches in meaningless games at the end of a 78-84 season.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 12:09 PM EDT reply actions   4 recs

Relatedly

Did anyone see the Phillies game yesterday? They had a graphic up around the 4th inning which showed the pitch counts of Halladay in his last four starts — none of them were below 110 I don’t think. Suffice to say, he sure didn’t look like Doc yesterday either. Trouble locating breaking balls, walking hitters like Pedroia, and not the usual juice on the fastball — consequently got knocked around the park pretty good.

When are these guys gonna learn that you can’t just keep riding the horse until he falls over dead?

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly,

it makes me worry about Adam Wainwright quite a bit. TLR consistently leaves him in for about 110 pitches and you just have a feeling that a few 120-pitch outings are going to be sprinkled in there this summer, especially with the bullpen likely to continue to be taxed in the wake of the Penny injury.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not that anybody care about my fantasy team or anything

but man, those two going down would totally f*** up my league-crushing pitching staff.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on May 24, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Average pitches per start: 103

That’s pretty good. Now go look at Halladay. Average pitches per start? 110.5. That includes a 4 game stretch where he threw 118+ in every game and 132 in one of them.

Philly has serious bullpen issues, but piling on your ace to the point where he’s wiped out is not a way to solve them.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Halladay seems like the type of pitcher that can throw a lot of pitches without adding injury risk, though

He’s been doing it for 8 years

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on May 24, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's already throw 115 pitches more in the first 10 starts this year

than he has in any of the previous two full seasons.

His average Pitcher Abuse Points is near the bottom of the top 20 during his career span as well. He’s only been in the top 5 once, in 2007.

Let’s not equate “pitching a lot of innings because you never miss a start” with “throwing a lot of innings because managers leave you in there for 120 pitches multiple times”. One is ok. The other isn’t.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know about Halladay

But A.D.A.M. Doesn’t warm up as much as most guys and he’s at 15 pitches a games less than Halladay.

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 2:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I still don't buy that

Warmup pitches don’t really tax your arm, you are throwing at 75% if that.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on May 24, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember reading an article about this last year

Curt Schilling was quoted on saying that pitching with nobody on or just a man on 1st wasn’t really taxing on him at all, but pitching with runners in scoring position was really tough. Warmup pitches are pretty similar, I’d think

So, ostensibly, the fewer baserunners that reach 2nd, the more pitches you can throw.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on May 24, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

this

If you debunk warm up pitches you must debunk bases-empty pitches and keep an out-of-the-stretch (assuming the guy winds up like most) pitchcount, otherwise its the same arm motion. Also A.D.A.M. has great mechanics for not tearing his arm in half, as does Halladay. I just worry about A.D.A.M. throwing so many curveballs, but I guess he’s not 16 either so whatever (please, curveball, don’t be why Sandy didn’t last longer)

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sandy had arthritis.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

To a degree

But you are still throwing with effort even with no one on. When you are warming up, you really only let it fly a couple times no matter what. Warmup pitches are certainly less stressful than any game pitches.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on May 24, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nolan Ryan and Bert Blyleven

threw pretty much nothing but heat and the hammer and they have two of the longest careers in the modern era for pitchers. Warren Spahn threw a ton of curveballs as well and pitched for 20+ seasons with little injury. Comparing people to Koufax, who had early onset arthritis in his pitching elbow, isn’t really much of a comparison.

FWIW, the curveball isn’t nearly as hard on your arm as the slider is.

The point is that at some point you get tired and shouldn’t be throwing anymore. As the muscles tire it leaves the tendons and ligaments holding the joints together more exposed.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember an interview with Ryan nearer the end of his career in which he said

that over the years various pitching coaches and managers had tried to get him to throw the slider. He said that he would mess around with it for a while not really trying to do it correctly until they finally gave up bothering him about it.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 24, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

comparing anyone

to the inner circle HOFers isn’t necessarily a fair or warranted comparison either. those guys had golden arms.

"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."

by BVHeck on May 24, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point was that for every Koufax

I can find two other hard throwing pitchers with a curveball who had long and effective careers with little injury.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

gotcha

"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."

by BVHeck on May 24, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Blyleven swtiched to a softed curveball after an arm injury, in 1983, I believe.

So, perhaps not the best historical comp for a hard-curveball/fastball pitcher.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

In 1983

He was in his 12th season:

  • Averaged 232 innings a year
  • Had 406 starts
  • Had 159 Complete Games and 42 Shutouts.
  • Let me repeat that: 159 CG and 42 SHO in 12 seasons.
  • Still isn’t in the Hall of Fame.
  • Travesty.

That said, he was still a very, very effective pitcher after his injury, so you can’t make the case it hurt him overall. If anything, he was MORE durable: He led the league in innings twice after the injury and averaged more innings per start.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1M

"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning

by gocards62 on May 24, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right,

but he switched to a different, slower curveball. He made adjustments after the injury. Also, keep in mind that he gave up 50 (!) HRs in 1986 and 46 (!) in 1987. Granted, he threw a ton of innings, but his HR/9s for those years were 1.66 and 1.55. I just love citing to giving up 50 dingers in a single season.

And I agree with you 100% that he should be in the Hall of Fame. His not being in there is a black mark on the BBWAA.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

And his ERA's

for those two years were below league average. So it really didn’t hurt his team that much. He also happened to throw 8 shutouts combined in those two seasons.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anybody read the Nolan Ryan article on pitch counts, etc, in the lastest SI?

I know, it’s SI…but it was kind of interesting. Ryan philosophy seems to be that higher pitch counts strengthen pitchers’ arms instead of wearing them out. Don’t know for sure if I agree with him, but interesting read, nonetheless.

Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on May 24, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can see it to an extent

I’m not sure limiting guys out of HS to 60-70 pitches is the best idea, but it seems that unless you have a freak of nature on your hands, 120 pitches is a bad idea.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on May 24, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ryan can philosopphize as he wishes,

But the evidence demonstrates that more pitches= more injuries. Real coaches and analysts are trying to figure out how to distribute those pitches to increase durability.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 7:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

....for Nolan Ryan

Who had the rubber arm of all rubber arms.

This is like Jenny McCarthy stating that “vaccines cause autism” because her son had vaccines and then started showing signs of autism. There are no scientific studies that prove that this happens, but she says “my science is my son”. By the same token, Ryan’s evidence is his arm, which isn’t scientifically sound evidence for making a blanket statement about all pitchers.

Evidence demonstrates that the more pitches one throws in a single outing the greater chance there is of an injury.

Ryan also pitched in an era in which guys weren’t out there whipping it on every pitch as well. Gibson has said in a number of interviews and in the book with Reggie Jackson that he would take something off while pitching to guys who weren’t likely to hurt him with the deep ball. The difference now is that nearly everyone in the lineup can take you deep or slug the ball to the wall, so there are no breaks. With the advent of larger bullpens, pitchers also aren’t expected to finish games now, so they throw with more effort on every pitch now as well.

I believe the article your referring to was Ryan talking about pitch counts for younger pitchers in the minors who were being limited to 60 and 70 pitches in an outing. In this case, I can see his point, because how can you expect those pitchers to mature into 100 – 110 pitch throwers if they never throw that much. The issue is that some of the pitchers he’s talking about have awful mechanics that coaches are trying to straighten out before they really turn them loose, so the limited pitch counts are protecting them until they get everything worked out.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

That Jenny McCarthy example is just murderously deft.

Thank you for that.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

As someone who's has a wife that worries about EVERYTHING

and who has friends who don’t have children vaccinated, I’ve had to do so much fucking research on this topic in the last few months since our child was born.

All because a former Playmate of the Year won’t shut the fuck up about it.

53 more cases of Polio reported in the U.S. in 2010, which is more cases of polio than from 1965 – 1990 COMBINED. As Ron White says, though: You can’t teach stupid.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 25, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

Smallpox cases in 2009: zero. Smallpox vaccinations: zero.

The ironic part is that if we could just vaccinate widely enough we could erradicate the diseases and would eventually not need the vaccinations.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 25, 2010 11:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

You can't eradicate diseases like Polio though.

They don’t require a host to live, and are prone to jumping between non-humans to humans, so the bug is still out there, and if it isn’t vaccinated against it can crop up, as we’re seeing in well-to-do areas where parents don’t read science journals and get all their news from Rolling Stone articles and TV interviews with blonde bombshells who are friends with Oprah. Why listen to scientists when you have Oprah!!! She never jumps the gun on anything! Oh. Shit.

Widespread vaccinations are a boon to public health and one of the best human inventions in the history of the planet. Along with plentiful food and nutrition, vaccines can be attributed with the growth in lifespans over the past 60 years.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 25, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

And potable water.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 25, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

smaller parks too

the DH in the AL – all these things contribute to there being more stress per pitch now.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a problem with managers abusing pitchers relentlessly when it's not the playoffs

By Pitcher Abuse Points, Halladay is the top guy in either league this year. Homer Bailey is right up there in the top 10 too.

I’m not upset as a Cardinal fan — Halladay being out of the year is better for our pennant hopes. I’m upset at a baseball fan because these managers simply don’t listen to reason.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough

if i was a manager i would pull every one of my pitcher’s after 100 pitches until about late august. unless they were absolutely just dealing and had like 102 pitches after the eighth in a potential CG SHO.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would like to point out that he was pitching against the Red Sox

a team that has seen him much more than any of the NL teams he is facing. I have always kind of thought that familiarity does breed some success against pitchers. I have no data to back that up because I am too lazy to look up the stats…

Currently selling signature space. All offers considered.

by RosevilleRedbird on May 24, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's no doubt that it does...

But it’s not like that whole Red Sox team has seen him a ton either. Beltre, V-Mart, Ellsbury, and Hermida haven’t seen much of him at all, and Scutaro’s never faced him before because they were on the same team.

He didn’t have his good stuff yesterday, that’s for sure.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't understand what you are saying.

This would be like us saying, hypothetically, “Well, it’s understandable that Wainwright got lit up by the Reds. He faces them all the time. They know him well.” In reality, our expectations are the opposite. We want our aces on the hill against our divisional foes, because they give us a better chance to win. The familiarity blade cuts also both ways. Halladay is also more familiar with the weaknesses of the Boston hitters. What’s more, in Halladay’s case, the Red Sox did not have a DH in the lineup as the game was played in Philly. Tim Wakefield batted 3 times in the game.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

And the DH would have been Ortiz

who’s not only on a tear, but someone who also tunes up Halladay: .273/.330/.515/.845 are his career numbers against Doc.

Youkilis is even better, with an OPS over 1.000 albeit in half as many PA’s. Familiarity helps hitters more than pitchers, because pitchers don’t have to react to the swing of a hitter as they throw the ball.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

dusty's lifelong struggle

As Ian Fleming commented in the novel Goldfinger, “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action.”

At this point, there can be no doubt that Dusty is the enemy of every (young) pitcher.

by madridbend on May 24, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't know his per-game pitch count

but i read the reds were being very conscious of leake’s pitch counts.

also, bailey says he’s fine, refused a cortisone shot. interview was shown on pirates-reds broadcast, and he was visibly pissed/upset about being put on DL – said there was nothing he could do, it was up to the club, etc.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Remember Randy Keisler?

I have no reason to bring him up other than it might distract from our current pitching woes by way of comparison to a much darker time in our Cardinals fandom.
Has Garcia’s start changed anybody’s perception about his ceiling? Prospect gurus have been telling me he is a legit #3 guy, and that’s already impressive. But does anybody think he could be significantly better than that? Maybe some ace-type years? Or was that kind of peak inherent in the overall forecast to begin with? Just curious.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on May 24, 2010 12:11 PM EDT reply actions  

He's a legit #3 guy

with #2 upside I think. It would be a stretch to put him that ace level potential category just yet. Remember, J.A. Happ looked unhittable for two months last year too but nobody was expecting him to be the next CC Sabathia.

He’s got all the tools to be a #2 guy if he can just bring the walk rate down a bit while getting his K rate back up to where it was in the minor leagues. Do I ever see him being a dominant #1 starter? No. Could he be a 3.80 – 4.00 FIP guy for the next 5 years? I think that’s well within the realm of possibility.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, despite Garcia's seemingly impeccable control,

he’s a #3 starter with his current walk rate and he would need to at least halve it to be an ace.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could someone...

…define for me, with rough numbers of course, what I should be thinking when I see “Ace,” “#2 guy,” “#3 guy,” etc.

I get that an “Ace” stat line looks like Waino/Carp from 2009, but I’m just kind of unclear on what I should be expecting when the terms are used. I always envisioned a #3 guy as someone who gives you quality starts most of the time, with the occasional brilliant performance figured in, and a #4 guy the same as a 3, but without the occasional gems.

I’m unclear as to what a #2 and #5 should look like, but I’m pretty sure Todd Wellemeyer is #26 starter. Unless he’s (literally) on fire, then the increased sense of urgency bumps him up to #18.

by dronemc on May 24, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Basically the rotation number is what you would expect from a guy in that spot on a contending team

A number one I would say is anything <3.30 FIP, #2 3.40-4.00, #3 4.00-4.30 , #4 4.40-4.60 and #5 4.70-5.00.

Of course it’s kind of a dumb system in that it’s not exactly a bad thing to have better pitching throughout the whole rotation and people vastly overrate where a guy is slotted in the rotation, but I’d say that’s kinda where people slot pitchers when they talk about prospects like that.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on May 24, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

After his first start I re-evaluated his ceiling

He has basically the same stuff as Andy Pettitte and I’d say that’s a pretty fair ceiling on what he could do—-championship caliber #2.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on May 24, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vote for Pedro

If I’m Mo, I’m calling Pedro to see what he wants to pitch for the rest of the season. He won’t provide immediate relief, but I think you have to worry about how soon Lohse and Penny will return.

by OCCardsFan on May 24, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Gaudin will be cheaper and better...

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

That wouldn't be too bad

And Gaudin should be ready to pitch in relatively short order.

by OCCardsFan on May 24, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

prophetjohn went to

heroic lengths discussing Gaudin’s potential.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Albert wants you to know it'll all be okay....

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 24, 2010 1:19 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

I'm worried about the crown. It seems a little blurry,

as though it’s only the product of my drug-addled imagination and not an actual emblem of British royalty. Please reassure me.

by chalk on May 24, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

The crown is intentionally blurry...

…WWII propaganda is fun!

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 24, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

My boss just got back from the UK.

And he bought a “Keep Calm and Carry On” coffee mug for the office. Very exciting.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, baseball

So, yesterday, we (and by we I mean Cardinal Nation) were sitting there watching one of the two heads of the great beast of pitching that is Wainocarp get sort of whacked around. The Cards were losing 4-0, then 4-3, then 5-3, and showing no real ability to get to Weaver. Within a few hours the squad had taken advantage of the Angel bullpen’s struggle to find the mythical strike zone and had won a game and a series. Amazing how it all can turn. A few things I thought about during the game:

  • Rasmus is most definitely in a funk. He’s striking out a lot, and they are not the competitive, 7-8 pitch variety. He’s kind of just waving up there.
  • The Cardinals badly need Holliday and Pujols to hit like, well, themselves. Holliday’s complete lack of approach at the plate is beginning to wear on me. Doesn’t he realize that “Swing at nearly everything and use your brute strength to hit it hard” isn’t really much of a recipe for success? And Albert… I’m sure he’ll figure it out eventually. But in the meantime, well, sheesh.
  • I was at the game the other night and watched Penny’s grandslam and it was, shall we say, frickin’ awesome. From the replays it appeared Piñeiro tried to flip in some kind of a slider. But it didn’t slide, and Penny didn’t miss. The whole stadium stood waiting for his curtain call, and the second he figured it out and gave one Lopez hit his, by comparison, weenie home run. Quite a wild sequence.
  • Finally, not a bad weekend for Jason Motte, eh? A couple of shutout innings, some big-time fastballs, and he even showed flashes of changing speeds. How about that?

On a sad, non Cards related note, I’m sure everyone heard about the passing of José Lima and I’m betting it came up in the game thread from yesterday. I always viewed Lima as one of baseball’s true characters. His antics on the mound were probably grating to those who played against him, but they were also the expression of a one-of-a-kind personality. Mr. Posnanski banged out a pretty good blog post about him that is worth the time to read. RIP, Lima-time, there have been few like you.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on May 24, 2010 1:52 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Motte has been impressive this year

His walks have come down, his K’s have stayed about even, and he’s sporting an xFIP of 3.49 right now — that’s pretty damn impressive considering how up and down he was last year.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

good comment

rather off-topic, the five worst ERA list down there in the Pos article… how many of those were Astros?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kile's was with Colorado

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I don't think anyone has given enough weight to Lima's fear of the Crawford Boxes

He really, really, really, really, really didn’t like them. They owned the space between his ears.

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess it must be like when the olde-tyme pitchers talk about

the green monster bearing down on you,

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

ZOMG

Sergio Mitre hit Jason Bay in the middle of the back after Bay hit 2 home runs?!?!?! Their has to be consequences for such actions!! Warnings are not enough!

Oh, wait, it was a hanging curveball. Good thing the umpire issued warnings. f/n umps

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 2:30 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah I saw that live

it was the height of dumb.
there were reparations anyway… or maybe it was the woeful Mets bullpen. did anyone get tossed? noooo.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

i refused to watch live

only thing worse than Mets vs Yankees is Red Sox vs Yankees

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

the Cardinals had several mentions. it was like bizarro world.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just watched highlights of Sunday's game...

Jay Randolph is incredibly bad. He was bad 25 years ago. Why not hold a live tryouts to find a decent announcer? Interview a bunch of guys who think they can pull it off. Then give them a game or two to show what they can do. Have the listening audience vote on-line to pick their favorite.

How could this be worse than Randolph?

Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...

by guayzimi on May 24, 2010 2:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Randolph is useless

He once said of a Ludwick home run that it was “a long and (pause 6 seconds) magnificent home run.” That made me realize how useless he really was.

VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009

by redbirdnation8206 on May 24, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone had to pull the string.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

wasn't ther a reality show like that

on the WWL?

The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 24, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's on The Ocho

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

To answer the question, though

He’s on ESPNews, I believe. Anish Schroff?

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on May 24, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Subtract that "c"

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on May 24, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry for the triple post

But apparently he wasn’t ever in the contest. Weird… I remember distinctly seeing him in some sort of contest

Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'

by mysterui on May 24, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree

But at the same time, I still find listening to him much less painful than Dan and Al.

I wish the TV wasn’t ten seconds off the radio so I could listen to that instead. But it’s just too weird. (Though it’s not like I get get 550 on the radio inside anyway…)

by DiscoJer on May 24, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

f'n NBA

top play of Rajon Rondo laying on the court, getting up and scoring is a travel and they talk about it as play of the playoffs

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

It was great hustle, FWIW.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, hustle was great

but its still a travel

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I only saw the clip in passing

when did gain possession? and since when do they call traveling in the NBA?

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 24, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

gained possession

when he dove on the floor, got up, started dribbling, and then layed it in. Travel. They sometimes call the egregious ones. I would qualify this one as egregious.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just got done watching it again

it looked like when he got to the ball he used it push himself up and then took off dribbling. I don’t think I would have called it a travel, but I’m no ref….I still hate Rondo though

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 24, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was lazy play by Orlando

and a travel by Rondo.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 24, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

now there's an idea.

because his description of it last year didn’t make any sense. maybe it’s inflammation?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

or tendonitis?

I dunno… but my family has a lot of arthritis going on. I’ve noticed that I had to cut back on the bass playing because I was having grip problems and forearm tightness

David Freese, LOBster killer

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 24, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not likely

arthritis is a joint condition. The only joints in the forearm are the proximal and distal radio-ulnar joints, which are at the elbow (proximal) and at the wrist (distal).

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmmm

what is tendonitis btw, is that related to arthritis at all?

David Freese, LOBster killer

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 24, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

meh

that is a big picture there

David Freese, LOBster killer

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 24, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

i have beef with some info on that link

tendonitis can progress to tendonosis, which IS a chronic condition. Also, tendonitis can lead to weakened tendons, which can lead to tendon failure. Just ask David Beckham and, well, anyone else who has ever snapped an achilles tendon. They are almost always precluded by a battle with tendonitis.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Preceded?

"A good catcher is the quarterback, the carburetor, the lead dog, the pulse taker, the traffic cop and sometimes a lot of unprintable things, but no team gets very far without one." – Miller Huggins

by vico on May 24, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes
I wish I could claim English was my second language, but I've been butchering it my whole life.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

not really related

spants’ link should be helpful.

Basically arthritis= joint, tendonitis= tendon/musculotendinous junction.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah

then I would say I’d guess Lohse has tendonitis

David Freese, LOBster killer

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 24, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also,

Arthritis=bone
tendinitis=tendon

seems as though he might have a torn sheath or a sprain/strain of one of the handful of palmar tendons.

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 25, 2010 12:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Hoooooooly crap!

There’s a gallery of 85 Keep Calm and BlahBlahBlah posters….

Personal favorite? This one:

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 24, 2010 3:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Sweet.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 24, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keep Calm and Oh, Who Are We Kidding

Official Lohse Day slogan?

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

CARLOS SILVA!!!

Of all people is 6-0 – has the world gone mad???
:=8O

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on May 24, 2010 3:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Just the cows.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mad Cow Disease?

OH NOEZ!!!!

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 24, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...

I thought even cows knew not to value W-L records by now

Jobu needs a refill

by lightbulb on May 24, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hendry 1 Zduricenik 0

Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...

by guayzimi on May 24, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meh, Z still gets a point.

If Silva was that much of a clubhouse cancer and didn’t keep in shape, then the team improved just getting rid of him for nothing in my view.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 24, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe, but they didn't get rid of him for nothing.

They got Milton Bradley, his contract, and sent money to the Cubs.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still give the guy a chance.

I mean, considering the ego-tistic based society we live in, where it is considered cowardly to ask for help, the guy took the right step in actually asking for it. Better late than never it seems.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 24, 2010 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

No question. I hope he comes through it and becomes a productive player again.

But as of now he’s a bench-riding head-case that they still have to pay. Maybe that’s still preferable to what Silva was giving them, but it can’t be by much.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

In 2009, Silva had a FIP of 5.97

That’s Wellemeyorian (And yes, write that down Webster’s), and a xFIP of 5.53. The dude was HORRIBLE.

However, at least Bradley showed signs of the life at the plate. A .378 OBP in 2009 is nothing to sneeze at, and is right around his career average of .369. One thing that I would be cautious of is the massive drop in power, as his SLG went from .563 in 2008 to .397 in 2009. And as a result, his OPS went down by more that 200 points, which is pretty astronomical. Safeco is terrible for righties, but that doesn’t apply to him, as he is a lefty, and I am currently unaware of the dimensions for lefties at the moment.

It’s fairly likely that he will not regain his Texas form, especially when he isn’t hitting in a ballpark as friendly as Texas, but he may at least become respectable.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 24, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lohse says he'll miss

at least one start

Here is the whole story

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 4:44 PM EDT reply actions  

remember when

Lohse was the “he’s not that good, but at least he never gets hurt” guy? I miss that.

I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps. | Cards on Cards

by madding on May 24, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lohse is reportedly seeing a specialist in L.A. after the MRI.

I don’t know why this makes me feel better than the training staff saying that he is fine.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 24, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Attn: SB Nation

Can someone update the stories in the Recent Stories box, please? I’m sick of seeing Reds Top Cardinals there.

Thank you.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 6:13 PM EDT reply actions  

it seems yadi has been great this year

then i read where he’s only 18th out of 24 qualifying catchers in wOBA, which is one spot ahead of jason kendall. the off-day is good, but at some point tony has to give him more regular rest:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/how-many-innings-is-too-many-for-a-catcher/

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 7:30 PM EDT reply actions  

such a shitty article, or at least this part is
While Yadier didn’t see immediate ill effects — he hit .375/.438/.464 in the 64 PA following the 20-inning game — he has fallen off a bit lately. Since a 4 for 5 game against Pittsburgh on May 7 Molina has just seven hits in 50 PA, just one for extra bases. We cannot definitively point to Molina’s excessive playing time as a reason for this slump — slumps happen, after all, even to the best hitters in the league — but the correlation is somewhat troubling. Yadier, after all, has caught a large portion of his team’s innings.

Really? “He hit great after the 20 inning game, but has slumped recently therefore the 20 inning game hurt him”.

by vivaelpujols on May 24, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yadi, per FanGraphs

1.0 WAR in 158 PA. Prorate that to 500 plate apperances and that’s well over 3 WAR.

by vivaelpujols on May 24, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a bit skeptical about FanGraphs Catcher defensive metrics, however.

And we all know that’s where Yadi’s real value lies.

He has been slumping a bit with the bat, and it’s likely that he’s being a little overworked. Can’t really deny either of those points.

by Voxx on May 24, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not as high as

BR….1.2, .7 for his fielding, and .3 for position. his bat is costing him-.2 right now.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought there was a discussion aboot this,

but I can’t remember the differences behind what drives each of their numbers.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yadi's arm

is the strength of his defense. Catcher statistics tend to focus heavily on range and mobility, rather than controlling the running game, do they not? And a catcher’s ‘reputation’ can’t really be put into the statistics. How many runners would normally run, but don’t, just because it’s Yadi fucking Molina behind the plate?

by Voxx on May 24, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's been a while since I've looked at anything.

I did once, somewhere, and when I saw range factored in, I moved on.

The point about Yadi’s reputation still stands, however. Catcher defensive stats can’t really account for the runner that doesn’t even try to steal.

by Voxx on May 24, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure they can

You can just look at how often baserunners go on Yadi comparedd to the average catcher.

by vivaelpujols on May 24, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

How do you factor in

the pitcher’s ability to hold a runner on? Or is that one of the things you just have to assume normalizes across teams.

by Voxx on May 24, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is the best way to measure someones arm, OMO

If the league average SBA is 100, lets say, and catcher X has 50 SBA. over a comparable inning sample, it’s pretty obvious that the league picks their spots…..and I bet bet that further anaysis could show that a large number of said catchers sb were off the pitcher.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

^IMO

and analysis…..
post fail.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, they can't quantify game-calling i guess

but yadi has to rank highly there. i believe it was vep posted a link to an article on catchers’ framing ability, and it was surprising how much that might be worth over the course of a season – i believe yadi ranked pretty well in that, too. shutting down the running game is huge, especially i suppose as a relief on the pitcher’s mind, but his defensive value extends to a lot of areas – blocking pitches, blocking the plate, fielding bunts, directing traffic, etc.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the mental aspect

of having Yadi behind the plate (for the pitcher) is highly underrated. I pitch a bit myself, for the local traveling league, and pitched in high school, and having a catcher that I was comfortable with behind the plate is incredibly huge.

I have two catchers that catch me, about 50% split. I don’t have full stats or anything, though I’m sure our coach would let me look through his scorebook if I wished, but I’d almost guarantee I pitch far better with one catcher than the other.

It’s probably mostly a mental thing. I have more confidence firing for the corner with Jake back there, especially on counts where I need to throw the strike. With the other dude, I tend to leave it over the plate a bit more, and I’ve gotten burned. Even if it is just a collection of guys who played high school/college ball, they can hit 86 down the middle pretty hard.

I can see this being the case for pitchers at the MLB level, as well. With Yadi able to coax borderline pitches for strikes more often for not, it allows Carp, Adam, etc to paint even in counts favorable for hitters. If it was LaRue or such behind the plate, that pitch might result in a walk, or they do have to catch more of the plate, leading to unfavorable results.

Maybe I’m way off base, but this is basically my long winded and anecdote-ridden way of saying ‘Yadi be good. And hard to quantify’

by Voxx on May 24, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree

yadi will never be attributed his full value strictly by numbers – i remember in spring training when waino was informed yadi was catching him that day and got all excited, i think gave yadi a hug.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

hug fiend

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Counterpoint

I pitched through college, and never much cared about my catcher. It was nice having the one with the really good arm behind the plate, but it didn’t change how I pitched, I don’t think.

by mojowo11 on May 24, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's possible that

there’s a bigger difference in quality between the two I throw to. I do know that if there’s a dude on first with second open, unless I keep him very close to the bag, it’s about an automatic steal. If watching every single and walk turn into a double doesn’t fuck with your head a bit, well…. you’re a stronger pitcher mentally than I, I guess.

And maybe there ‘should not’ be a difference in how I feel on the mound, regarding the catcher behind the plate. I just know I feel like I can be more aggressive with throwing to the outside corner with one catcher, over the other. And I’m sure you know how mental pitching can be, unless you’re a robot.

Wait. You…aren’t, are you? Shit. Spare me when the robots take over and kill us all?

by Voxx on May 25, 2010 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sure you can!

Last year Yadi had 544 plate appearances. This year he’s on pace for 568. Are those 22 extra plate appearances the difference between his .337 wOBA last year and his .312 wOBA this year? I doubt it.

He’s in a slump. I love how slumps are always dismissed as random variation except for when an author wants to prove a point.

by vivaelpujols on May 24, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the question is -

SHOULD Yadi be getting 540+ plate appearances a year? I love Yadi, he’s my favorite player, even above Albert, Adam, and Carp – but I’d like to see Tony cut his playing time back a little bit, especially as the weather heats up. I’d like to have Yadi around for a while, and catching as often as he does…. it does apply some level of wear and tear on the body, even if it isn’t quantifiable.

by Voxx on May 24, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's Yadi's clutch value this season?

I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons

by hazel on May 24, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm not sure if looking at a catcher's PA's is the best method

because it says more about where he is batting in the order and how many runs his team is scoring. and innings caught might not be the best either, since all innings are not the same – why not judge a catcher’s workload by pitches caught, or PA’s caught, rather than just innings?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

are you talking about how many times yadi goes up to bat

or how many PA’s by opposing hitters he has caught? i’m confused because you noted his PA’s last year, which was offensive, whereas i was talking about defensive PA’s caught.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, the article was built on very little at this point in time concerning yadi

it just surprised me about where he ranks wOBA-wise. in my mind yadi has been good offensively, and i would have never thought he ranked so low. on the other hand, i do think he catches too many innings, and at some point would like to see him rested more often.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh. You can get Pirates tickets on your mobile.

They have ticket insurance available too. Progressive!

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 8:06 PM EDT reply actions  

this made my day

The Cubs are mostly to blame for this, because, well, they usually suck

glad to see they are keeping with the tradition, everybody likes traditions, right?

Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog

by stlcardsfan4 on May 24, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

whoaaa

not sure how did that

SB’ned

Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog

by stlcardsfan4 on May 24, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe it's because he prioritized games in which both teams were in contention,

but I was surprised this game wasn’t on the list.
And there’s this recent one, where the Cubs were in first and we were right behind them. Maybe it doesn’t crack the top ten all time, but it was a great comeback against Wood and one of Ankiel’s last moments of glory as a Cardinal.

by BTown Birds fan on May 25, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

on the pitching front

did gaudin get picked up or not – i saw that suggested here, but haven’t seen it anywhere?

what about this chris resop in the braves system? they have to do something with him soon.

can’t rich hill opt out in june if he so desires? what’s the club’s thinking on him – is he loogy insurance for this year – do they plan on him being a loogy next year, with reyes’ contract up and a club option on miller?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 8:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Well

To my knowledge, Gaudin has not been picked up.

Chris Resop is probably move valuable to the Braves right now. He’s been pretty dominant in the minors, and they have to deal with injuries to Jurrjens as well as the performances of Kawakami might be troubling. Plus, there is no guarantee Kris Medlen does well anyway ( I would trade for him in a heartbeat though).

I think that Rich Hill is a failed experiment with limited chance of success. They wanted to see if they could develop something other than his fastball, and it just didn’t blossom. He might get another chance or he may figure it out in the minors, but the staff probably isn’t holding their breath.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 24, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

wonder if hill will opt out then?

maybe some other team is offering him a chance.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe, it's possible.

He has the talent, but eventually, enough teams have seen him where at some point nobody is willing to give him a chance.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 24, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

might be something a team would be willing to try

before going in on oswalt.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm

I see that Rich Hill hasn’t been starting for Memphis. What’s the deal with that? Trying to revamp his career as a LOOGY?

by mojowo11 on May 24, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's bee in the pen for a while now...

only 4 starts I believe.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

pitching leaders on fangraphs on Cardinals

K/9 – Jason Motte, 9.53 (SP: Carp at 8.19)
BB/9 – Ryan Franklin, 0.44 (SP: Penny at 1.46)
K/BB – Franklin, 13.00 (SP: Penny at 3.89)
WHIP – Reyes, MIller tied, 0.83 (SP: Waino at 1.02)
BABIP (Low) – Reyes, .063 (SP: Garcia at .265)
BABIP (High) – Lohse, .360 (RP: Hawksworth at .346) side note: Penny at .326
FIP – Franklin, 2.14 (SP: Waino at 2.74)
High FIP – Hawksworth, 6.07 (WOW) (SP: Carp at 4.03…wtf?)
xFIP – Carp at 3.41 (RP: Franklin, 3.48)
High xFIP – Lohse, 5.14 (RP: 4.71)

Wow, didn’t realize Jason Motte was doing as well as he is… Carp pulled off a weird line:
worst starter in FIP, but best pitcher xFIP – i assume 9 homers has something to do with it

Dennys Reyes’ outings won’t be fun for me from now on; Franklin has very good sabermetrics stats)

Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog

by stlcardsfan4 on May 24, 2010 9:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, we were just not talking about the success Franklin may or may not be having up above.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

how come reyes' outings won't be fun?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

They won't let him wear the mask during games.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

What if it was a uniform color?

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

that sounds like some photoshop...

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okayyyyy....

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 25, 2010 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

BOOSH!

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 25, 2010 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions   5 recs

you know that would be hanging in reyes' locker, or somewhere in the clubhouse

if you could get it to somebody…maybe you could e-mail the cardinals office? hell, the bullpen may have t-shirts made.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Tweeted Hawksworth, Goold, and Leach. Let's see if something can work with it.

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 25, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

ha

imagine if you started getting requests from the players.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would be STOKED....

…i might start charging. Heh

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 25, 2010 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

hey, i think they would expect to pay

i bet they’d spend a lot of time chatting amongst each other, coming up with ideas, having a lot of laughs.

would your title be: vexedtechie, official photoshop bitch of the st. louis cardinals?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Freelance Image Manipulator

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 25, 2010 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

That would be so epic.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be legal on the mound, there'd have to be a "luggage incident"

You know, so the mask would be a medical device to protect his face.

Getting a cape to be legal, on the other hand, will require more thought.

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

a cape!

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

A red one at home, a blue one on the road

and a red and blue one for Sundays. Make it happen, St. Louis Cardinals Equipment Manager Rip Rowan!

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Screw you, Pirates.

Damned unreliable brigands.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 9:05 PM EDT reply actions  

bloody pirates

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kinda cool: Cincy is celebrating the 75th anniversary of the first MLB night game

They’d had the video boards off during the game and had just organ music rather than piped in rock. They installed one of the lights used at Crosley Field during that game and they just lit it.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah, and the announcers are talking about how cool it would be

to play the game under the same quality lighting they had back then, so the fans could get a feel for it – ha!

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Pirates' radio guys were enjoying the relative quiet

but were unimpressed with the olde tyme lighting.

I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD

by The Continental on May 24, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Should have been you, Cubs.

Heh

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 24, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

pirates back in the game, down 7-5 in 7th

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 24, 2010 9:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Rox pick up Kaz Matsui

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 10:04 PM EDT reply actions  

excellent

BJ Rains comes through with walk-up music article

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 10:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I was just coming on here to post this

Great read. Very interesting stuff.

....my quick smells like french toast...

Twitter: @mstreeter06

by mstreeter06 on May 24, 2010 10:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

i was in charge of

assembling everyone’s intro music at JUCO for a couple of years. One of our pitchers didn’t give me a song, so I gave him Thunderstruck and he complained that it was some lame song he had never heard of. I hope it sticks with Franky and if I ever run into that * I can rub it in a bit.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on May 24, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Never heard of a highly successful AC/DC song?

Something tells me this guy deserved to be slapped.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

JUCO?

....my quick smells like french toast...

Twitter: @mstreeter06

by mstreeter06 on May 25, 2010 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

awesome

Though I’m not sure Thunderstruck quite works for a guy whose m.o. is throwing 91 and hoping they hit it.

by DanUpBaby on May 24, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've since re-decided on my walkup...

…I’d be “O Fortuna” bu Carl Orff, i believe…

Listen to it, you’ll know it.

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 25, 2010 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

David Freese apparently leads in all barehanded plays.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 11:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Skip Schumaker tied for take-out slides

DP POWAR

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 24, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe Skip should take a cue - good way to avoid having the ball stick in your glove is to avoid wearing one.

An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.

HL Mencken

by akaitori on May 24, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

If anyone doesn't have tickets and wants to go,

tweet @ indakind, he has some extras.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've honestly spaced it....

I’ll get back to you in the next week.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 24, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough

i would give you ways to contact me, but you can find all that stuff conveniently in my signature/profile. funny how that works.

and thanks.

by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm getting a ride with ducttape

but I need to figure out where to stay downtown. I will probably not be able to afford to buy a room until the 11th though.

David Freese, LOBster killer

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 25, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

anybody know what this second incident was?

my guess is much ado about nothing:

“Pujols flipped his bat and helmet as he returned to the dugout then smacked two trays of gum from a bench against the Cardinals dugout wall. La Russa reprimanded Pujols, saying, “That’s enough.” Pujols responded and, according to eyewitnesses, the exchange escalated with La Russa telling Pujols at one point, “I (expletive) know how to manage.” The outburst was the second involving Pujols in as many days."

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 1:15 AM EDT reply actions  

Yadi2 can prolly dig it out if anybody can,

Dude’s fucking legendary at ferreting out info.

You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.

by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 25, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

only in my own mind

I know where you live, though.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 25, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

hmmm

I don’t really like a Pujols – Larussa feud. not one bit.

David Freese, LOBster killer

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 25, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

but it says there was another outburst, i guess the day before

by second incident i suppose i mean other incident. probably just a bat slam or something – it doesn’t say there were words exchanged.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

well, i read that at SI

but it could have been quoting strauss making a big deal of nothing. it’s certainly gotten a lot of press, as bcb has a fanshot on it which links to an nbc sports article saying basically the same thing.

btw, your guy freeze is #5 in the ROY current rankings at SI. heyward is one of course, and jaime is two…forget who three was, but four is ike davis, who is doing well but was a callup and so doesn’t have freeze’s numbers – should definitely be behind him.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

ESPN has Strasburg at 1.....

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 25, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

seriously?

btw, i think leake was three in the SI article.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it was sarcasm,

but when you are tracking a guy’s minor league starts, you are begging to give it to him.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 25, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, he'd have to be plain dominant from day 1 though

or have heyward have a real rough patch.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 26, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

ludwickgate was the second one

the other one was when he popped out for the second time in the game. he threw his helmet, picked it up and threw it again. game before i think

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 25, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha, well, big deal

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I need smartphone advice

I saw some discussion on this earlier today (hell, I probably need a summary for today’s whole thread at this point), so I’m wondering if anyone can help me decide between a Blackberry Curve 8530 for $50 or a Blackberry Tour 9630 for $100. I am still in contract, so if I want a different kind of phone, I would need the company to buy out my contract. someone told me you can get palm pre’s for $30, are they any better than a blackberry? and what company is offering that I wonder

David Freese, LOBster killer

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 25, 2010 1:53 AM EDT reply actions  

The 9630 has a shitty trackball. They've had a lot of problems.

BlackBerry just released a new Tour that is now called the 9650 Bold. It has a trackpad. The Tour/Bold has a better screen and should be a bit faster than the Curve. The Curve 8530 has a trackpad and that’s what my husband and I currently use. It’s good enough, but I wanted something better and flashier. I’ve found the BlackBerry browser to be slower on this newer Curve, but it’s nothing a download of Opera Mini can’t fix. If you want a decent, inexpensive phone, a Curve is hard to beat.

I don’t know anything about Pres other than the screens scratch very easily so get a screen protector if you buy one.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 25, 2010 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm just going to go with the 8530

it has wifi, which is the main thing, and I was just watching a video that says it has a better trackpad too. plus it will only cost me $50

David Freese, LOBster killer

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 25, 2010 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

also

my brother has a palm pre and it is too small for my hands.

so I can use VEB on it then, eh? wooo hoooo!

David Freese, LOBster killer

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 25, 2010 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Get Opera Mini.

It’s free.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 25, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I'd do

I would echo most of what spants said above.

Track pad > Trackball imho.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 25, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

hmm, I kinda like our chances, even though we're tied

CENTRAL W L PCT GB HOME ROAD RS RA DIFF
St. Louis 26 19 .578 - 15-8 11-11 196 165 +31
Cincinnati 26 19 .578 - 15-9 11-10 224 217 +7

David Freese, LOBster killer

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 25, 2010 2:01 AM EDT reply actions  

That'd be pretty awesome...

…but I say nay since Bob Brenly mentioned it…

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 25, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

found this on the dodgers site

interesting in a few ways. believe they were quoting chicago journalist phil rogers:

“Did the late Jose Lima groove a fastball to Sammy Sosa during Sosa’s 66-homer season in 1998? That was the talk in the Cubs’ clubhouse on the afternoon of Aug. 23, 1998, when Sosa hit two Lima pitches for homers, the second a BP fastball when the first-place Astros were leading 13-2. Many baseball people felt that Lima, like Sosa a native of the Dominican Republic, did his countryman a favor, in hopes that he’d win the home run race with Mark McGwire. I wrote about that speculation in a column in the Tribune, and wound up being called a racist on the radio by the late Norm Van Lier and having a one-on-one conversation with Sosa in the training room at Wrigley the next day. Jim Riggleman, then the manager of the Cubs, told me privately that I was right but publicly told reporters he was insulted by the suggestion. That’s the way it goes in our business sometimes.”

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 25, 2010 4:01 AM EDT reply actions  

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