Finding it in your heart to forgive Kyle Lohse: A Self-Help Manual
by DanUpBaby on May 18, 2010 2:44 AM EDT
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PrintA special guest post by Dan Moore, M.D., author of Finding It in Your Heart to Forgive Adam Kennedy, Finding It in Your Heart to Forgive Just About Anybody, and Defense against a Dark Heart: A Draco Malfoy Songfic.
Sometimes our friends and loved ones can hurt us, even when they don't mean to. It's inevitable—we're human beings, with our own wants and needs, and oftentimes it's difficult for even the most perceptive among us to realize, let alone come to grips with, the way they come into conflict. Cardinals fans needed Kyle to pitch like he did in 2008. The Cardinals needed him to sign Kyle contract two or three weeks later than he actually did. Kyle needed to suck for a while. All parties concerned, I'm willing to say, have been a little selfish about it. They've looked at this situation with their Mine, instead of their Mind!
But that doesn't mean we can't come to a positive compromise here! The way I see it, there are a few win-win-wins available to us in this sticky situation:
1. Cardinals fans could lower their expectations about Kyle Lohse. Done and done! Kyle cut half a walk off his career averages in his first go-round with the Cardinals, and was overrated by his first-half win total and terrible stablemates anyway. Cardinals fans have successfully compromised, and so long as Jaime Garcia continues to pitch well will likely be ready and happy to accept anything south of a 4.50 ERA for the duration of the season, so long as he does the innings-eating thing.
2. The Cardinals could finance and build a functioning time machine with the money left on Kyle Lohse's contract; upon going back in time, they could either prevent the failure of Lehman Brothers or bankroll a team of physicists to learn what would happen when the funding to construct the time machine never leaves Future-DeWitt-Prime's bank account at the appointed time, after which they could sign Kyle Lohse at a discount. This is an unsuccessful compromise, and by failing to avert global financial catastrophe the Cardinals would be showing a certain unseemly selfishness. But the Cardinals are doing the right thing by paying Kyle's salary anyway, on time and in real currency. This is owning up to your own mistake—and you have to do it, because nobody owns your stuff but you!
3. Kyle Lohse could pitch better than he's been pitching lately, already. Yesterday's game was an important step for Kyle, because all steps are important—after all, if you miss one, you're going to fall down, no matter how small it is! Kyle and the Cardinals realized that it's better to work together than work apart! The team put four runs on the board for him, working without selfish, me-centric dingers, and he responded by putting together a perfectly palatable game, one he ought to be proud of.
Kyle showed real attention to the Cardinals' needs by throwing a game that was not only good but their kind of good. Working almost exclusively with the sinker in the early-going, he didn't mix in his first breaking pitch until he was five outs into the game. What a successful compromise! Kyle's historically a breaking ball-centric pitcher—his fastball is a career -89 runs below average—but with nothing else seeming to work he found considerable success throwing his sinker as single-mindedly as the most fervent of Duncan devotees.
It might have worked too well! When he went back to his slider/changeup/curveball-centric pitching style, after he'd gotten established, he began to struggle! But yesterday's start was, as incredible as it may seem, his fourth quality start in eight tries, and his third in five. With the help of the bullpen—particularly Jason Motte, who appears to have molted again and is now throwing triple digit fastballs exclusively—any damage that could have been done was reined in by the power of positive linking [of positive actions from multiple compromisers], which is a catchphrase I'm still working on.
Next time, if your buddy danupbaby is kind enough to have me back, I'd like to share with you an excerpt from my new book—Finding It in Your Heart to Forgive The Lineup after They Do Something Good! Until then, keep looking up! Because the only thing you'll get if you look down is dizzy!
#
... I don't think I'm going to have him back.
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well, i expect many a mea culpa as the season progresses
so many are willing to cite the supposed bad luck of some of their favorite hitters, but seem unable to acknowledge such on the behalf of lohse, who is exponentially more important to the cards than a skippy schumaker or boogy ryan. i don’t know if it is laziness or lack of mlb.tv archives, but it was very easy to see how lohse was pitching, even the last two starts: terrible luck in philly, with the wind-blown homer and errors and strange positioning, and, then, his last start no one could watch and say anything other than he was brilliant until that second error by boogy (btw, there were a couple errors in philly too, as well as tonite).
at the end of a season, there is probably enough data to look at without watching a single pitch to make some conclusions, but up until now there is not. so it takes more work, watching every pitch, every situation, to determine how well lohse has pitched. if one had done so, they would have known that lohse is the same pitcher of 2008, and pre-injury 2009, when he was our best pitcher.
it pains me to see so much lohse hate, sort of a group-mentality thing, when it is so ill-informed. professional scouts would laugh at some of the assessments made here, and have. lohse pitched as well or better his last two starts, with different results, as tonite. i am certainly more confident in him for the end of the season than i am penny.
i will enjoy the crow-buffet being eaten tonite, without having to partake myself. and if anyone wants to dispute something, please be specific, such as “the 2-1 breaking ball he threw whoever with 2 outs and a runner on first against whoever.” otherwise you are way over your head.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on May 18, 2010 3:32 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I think most of the Lohse antipathy comes from the contract
if he were, say, Jaime Garcia, and was expected to be putting up 5th starter numbers at the league minimum, I don’t think people would be so concerned. It was sort of the same situation with Encarnacion – he was, you know, fine, a mediocre player who won’t cripple the team, but he was paid too much to do a job you could’ve signed someone for half his salary to do.
And I’m not sure there’s that much “Lohse-hate” here – you’re right, he is often unfairly criticised (again, the contract has something to do with it), but a lot of the criticism is of the “Goddamn, I wish we hadn’t signed a league average pitcher going into his 30s to an expensive, long-term deal based on a career year” sort, which seems fair enough to me.
FWIW, I’d agree Lohse was unlucky last year with injuries (and looked GREAT before he got hurt, that CG he tossed against Houston, was it, which was a real model of economy in the Duncan mould), but he hasn’t pitched very well this year until this most recent start (yes, sample size has been an issue, and, from what I’ve seen, there’s nothing particularly “wrong” with him, he’s just been slightly less good than normal at painting the edges, which he needs to do to be effective).
He’s striking out fewer and walking more than his career line (and way worse than his career year in 2008) with a 1.6 K/BB, his batted ball profile is pretty much what you usually expect but he’s been very lucky on flyballs, seemingly, which perhaps mitigates some of the bad luck he’s had with timing and balls in play.
Looking at his batted ball/swing profile, though, there is some suggestion he’s been a little bit worse than usual – 5.7% swinging strikes is pretty bad (the league average hovers around 8-9 usually, and Lohse’s career average is near 8), so his stuff doesn’t seem to be getting as many whiffs as usual, and in addition he’s throwing about 6% fewer of his pitches in the strike zone than usual.
Hitters are swinging at fewer of his pitches than usual (39%, as opposed to a career average of 45%) and making better contact than usual, which isn’t a good combo, especially given that his first strike percentage is down a little, too. Yes, it’s a small sample, his stuff and approach doesn’t particularly look any worse to the naked eye, and situational occurrences (such as that game in, was it San Francisco, where the umpire had a ridiculously tiny strike zone) may have more influence than they would in a larger sample size, but it’s not unreasonable to state that Lohse has been struggling a bit so far. Here’s hoping last night’s start was the first of a good run.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions
6 errors in his past three starts you have to admit is uncanny
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yup
basically he’s thrown a lot worse than his FIP and a bit better than his ERA so far, IMO. As long as he’s the 5th most productive SP in a healthy rotation, well, that’s fine, in my book. The offense is a bigger concern to me right now.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 7:20 AM EDT up reply actions
with lohse
you say he’s getting fewer swings and misses. like tonite, if you paint and they lay off, they are in a hole 0-2. to me this could be a good thing – they can’t hit what they won’t swing at. in its most simplistic form, this is the greg maddux school of pitching, something i teach myself. and if they do swing, great – odds are in your favor as the pitcher that it will not be squared up. so i’d be willing to say that his command within the zone is better, and that’s why there are fewer swings and misses – there may be fewer swings overall.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
From 2002 to 2008
His least successful years as a pitcher, Maddux had 7.8% swinging strikes. Maddux could also get hitters to expand their zone after getting ahead. His First strike percentage was near 65%, Lohse’s is about 60% for his career and is 58.7% this season.
So what you’re saying doesn’t add up: If he’s getting ahead, he should get more swinging strikes, because hitters would have to hit his pitch. He’s not doing either of those at a level better than league average.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
not sure why he should necessarily get more swinging strikes
just because he gets ahead (as opposed to inducing weak contact) – in fact, it could be argued that it’s more important to be able to get swinging strikes when you are behind in the count, when the batter is looking to take a big rip.
if lohse back-doors a breaking ball to a lefty for called strike one, then throws a two-seamer down and away for ball one, then back-doors again for called strike 2, then goes full with a couple pitches that aren’t chased before throwing the two-seamer down in the zone to get a grounder to second, that was good pitching without getting any swinging strikes.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
pitchers get more swinging strikes when they're ahead in the count
that’s just the way it is.
Swinging strikes, in and of themselves, are not that important, but they’re a proxy, if you like, for having decent stuff. There really aren’t any successful major league pitchers who get swinging strikes on less than about 6% of their pitches (Pineiro managed last year with a freakily high GB rate that Lohse will never match and a very low BB rate with a 5.6% SwStr, but it’s pretty rare).
Even good pitch-to-contact, paint-the-edges guys like Webb, late-career Maddux, even guys like Derek Lowe (who’s an extreme groundball, pitch-to-contact guy) get them 8-10% of the time. If you can literally never induce a player to swing and miss at a pitch, it’s virtually impossible to get any strikeouts at all.
I feel I’m somewhat digressing from your point here, so I’ll stop…
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions
There's a couple of reasons why swinging strikes occur more often when you're ahead in the count:
- MLB hitters are going to make contact with balls in the middle 2/3 of the strike zone most of the time. So if you have to put on into the middle 2/3 of the plate when the pitcher is behind, they’re more likely to make contact, even if you throw 100 mph like Strasburg. They may foul it off or put it in play weakly, but they’re putting wood on that ball 95% of the time if they’re ahead 1-0 or 2-0.
- When ahead, you can work the black on the corners and up to 4" off the plate. Go look at the contact percentages for pitches in the strike zone and out of the strike zone — hitters swing and miss a lot more at pitches out of the strike zone and are more apt to swing at those pitches when they are behind in the count, because they need to “protect” from a called strike 3.
- The pitcher can throw more “out” pitches when he’s ahead. Randy Johnson’s slider was a nearly worthless pitch if he was behind 2-0 or 3-1, because it’s extreme break made it hard to throw for a strike, which also made it hard to hit. But if you’re down 0-1, 1-1, or 0-2, that pitch is a real bitch, because it looks like a fastball and then breaks hard, causing you to swing over it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
right
if lohse had an out pitch like johnson’s slider or waino’s curve, i’m sure he would go for more k’s with 2 strikes. as it is, he wants to make a good pitch to induce weak contact, which he’s done fairly well. unfortunately there have been a bunch of bloops and seeing-eye grounders to this point, and thus his inflated BABIP, but that luck should even out in the end.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
His out pitch is his change up
and it’s been effective at inducing swinging strikes in the past, but only when he’s consistently keeping the ball down in the zone. That hasn’t been the case this year.
FWIW, there are no major league pitchers who’ve been effective for long stretches of time without a swinging strike % above 7.5%. You just can’t be effective unless you miss bats occasionally.
Look, we’ve put together a pretty solid case for why his outcomes have been the way that they are. There’s a lot of things he can do better than he’s done so far and will improve his outcomes. Nobody is saying that he doesn’t have value, just that he’s probably not going to earn his contract over the course of the next 3 seasons (including this one), and that expecting him to be above league average that entire time is exaggerated because he’s been pretty much slightly below league average for his entire career.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i expect him to be much better than his career
i expect him to be as good as 2008 and pre-injury 2009, what i’d call his second-career, under dunc. if he isn’t as good as that, then i’ll bash him a little too.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
basically, the philosophy is this:
the only bad things that can happen to a pitcher occur when a batter swings – limit the number of swings, you limit the potential for damage (of course you can’t walk everyone – we are assuming you throw a lot of strikes).
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
But that's the point
he hasn’t been throwing a lot of strikes. He’s been throwing the ball OUT of the zone more than usual. He’s thrown 47% of his pitches in the zone this year, as opposed to a career rate of 53.3%. That isn’t a small difference.
Hitters are swinging less, and making better contact. Thus, there’ll be a few more called strikes, but he’s getting fewer swinging strikes and throwing more balls, and presumably getting hit more as well.
It’s fair enough saying that pitching in the paint is a good strategy, and yes, I agree, of course it is. But it’s easier said than done and Lohse doesn’t seem to be doing it this season QUITE as well as he has in the past. I’d still fancy him to right the ship, but time will tell. And FWIW I think he’s probably not going to be very good at all in the last two years of that deal.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Not disagreeing on any point,
but what percentage of his stats are coming from the two games where he got lit up? The game in AZ, he just got knocked around, then he didn’t pitch so terrible in his next start. Was it the Houston game where he came undone after the errors? He wasn’t looking so bad at the beginning of that game, then he just fell apart after the defense let him down, not unlike Penny the night before. Or has it been every start, where he is just a little bit worse than his avg?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 18, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Lohse has made 8 starts.
We could start subtracting starts to make a point that he isn’t as bad as his numbers reflect. Say we take out 2 starts. That’s 25% of his starts, which is an enormous chunk. I think that right now we should just be cautiously optimistic that he is not as bad of a pitcher as he has shown at times this young season and that he might be as good of a pitcher as he showed last night, or, in the home start against the Reds. Again, all I’m hoping for is acceptable mediocrity. Say, a 4.30 ERA. (A sub-4.30 ERA would be tremendous!) Just give me 195 innings of 4.25 ERA pitching and I will be a happy camper.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yeah, that sounds about right
I’m not particularly extrapolating any level of future performance from lohse. just arguing against the assertion that he’s pitched well this year and been unlucky. He’s been a bit unlucky, ERA-wise, but I think he’s pitched worse than his career line and certainly a fair bit worse than the year we paid for (2008). Whether he can get back to that level going forwards, who knows. I’d expect him to get better, though.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
he's been more than a bit unlucky
in the same sense that a hitter goes through a stretch where everything he hits is right at someone – there have been lots of bloops and seeing-eye grounders on top of an abundance of errors for an 8-game stretch, or even shorter if we want to narrow it down to the last 4 starts.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
But
he’s also only given up 2 home runs for a 3.3% HR/FB rate; that’s insanely lucky (again, small-sample caveats). With the number of flyballs he’s given up, he’d normally have given up 6 dingers. So it’s swings and roundabouts – his ERA looks a bit unlucky given the fact that a lot of squibbers and dying quails have fallen in for a high BABIP, BUT he’s also given up a lot of contact in the air without much of it leaving the park.
So overall, I feel “a bit unlucky” is a fair estimate. He should’ve got more outs on the ground (and he maybe has been squeezed a bit in a few starts, maybe should have a slightly better K/BB ratio) but then he should also have given up 6 home runs instead of the 2 he’s given, if his HR/FB ratio was up at his career level.
He’s not been as bad as he’s looked but he’s not pitching terribly well and he’s only an average pitcher to begin with.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't trying to subtract anything.
I was just wondering how much influence those two games were on his stats. If they were the anomaly or closer to the rule, that’s all. If he can pitch in the area that you suggest, then I can definitely live with it. However he pitches, he’s a better fifth starter than Welly was.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 18, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
It's kinda like paying $2.85 for a gallon of gas.
If you’ve been paying over $3, 2.85 doesn’t seem that bad.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 18, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
it's about $8 or $9 here (the equivalent thereof)
so, you know, you’re not doing too bad…
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
At least you have a plethora of public transportation options
by jd is legend on May 18, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
and dry wit delivered with a cut-glass accent and a monocle.
so there is that.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
f'in Brits
always gotta one-up us.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 18, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
We Americans've got plenty of wit thank-you-very-much!
OK, Cameron and Clegg walk into a bar… um… who are those guys again? I just know their names. I’m pretty sure they’re from England or something.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
the point was not his percentage of strikes
the point was that you have to throw enough strikes not to be walking everyone, which he is doing. his walk rate is a tick under jaime, i believe. i have no problem with him throwing fewer strikes – in fact, i think that is a good thing. he’s intentionally throwing balls out of the zone quite often when he’s ahead – the important thing is the location/quality of the strikes he does throw. why should he throw more strikes if he’s not walking people?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He is walking people
his walk rate is up and his strikeout rate is down.
He’s throwing the ball outside the zone more than he usually does, by a large amount.
I don’t know how you can argue that this is not a Bad Thing.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
garcia gets a lot more groundballs than lohse, and strikes out a lot more people too because his stuff is much better. He can afford to walk 3 per 9. Lohse is striking out 4-and-a-bit per 9 and has a fairly average GB rate for him. He’s not going to be very successful if that continues.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions
i have to disagree about the strikes
roughly 60% of lohse’s pitches have been strikes this year, compared to 62% in 2008. he might be throwing more pitches out of the zone, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing, is it, if he’s still getting strikes?
his walk rate is presently at 3.07/9, whereas in 2008 it was 2.21/9. so i’d expect his 2010 walk rate to come down to that level by the end of the year. we’re only 8 starts in, and so his walk numbers are a little skewed at the moment, considering his walks in the 8 games have gone: 3-0-4-2-0-1-4-1. the two games with 4 walks were the crazy arizona game vs. haren and the houston game with the 5 unearned runs. i think those are outliers that, in SSS, artificially inflate his per-game average.
yes, his k-rate is down from 5.36/9 in 2008 to 4.91/9 this year, but that’s not too sharp a decline. his GB% is down a beat too, from 45.8 in 2008 to 42.7 this year, but again not too worrisome at the moment. so there’s a few more fly balls, but his IFFB% is up a tick from 2008, and yes, some more of those fly balls will find the bleachers, as he’s at 3% rather than the 8% of 2008, but that should be more than offset when his LOB% normalizes – it was 73.6% in 2008, which seems about normal, but is presently under 60%, which is just a bad luck/timing issue.
basically i think 2010 lohse will look much like 2008 lohse when all is said and done. that wouldn’t change his bad contract, but in a sense i guess you could say he’d be living up to it, anyway.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Point taken.
basically i think 2010 lohse will look much like 2008 lohse when all is said and done. that wouldn’t change his bad contract, but in a sense i guess you could say he’d be living up to it, anyway.
And our point is that this is an overly optimistic projection, because he’s only been that good once in his career and that season was built on improvements that haven’t shown to be sustainable by most major league pitchers of his caliber. Considering the way he’s started this year, he looks more like the 2007 Cincy/Philly version that the 2008 Cardinal version, lucky or not.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
roughly 60% of lohse’s pitches have been strikes this year, compared to 62% in 2008. he might be throwing more pitches out of the zone, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing, is it, if he’s still getting strikes?
That’s a good point. I don’t really have an answer for that, except that his K and BB rates are poor, overall, this year. I would expect that to change but expecting 2008 numbers (a career year) seems excessive.
we’re only 8 starts in, and so his walk numbers are a little skewed at the moment, considering his walks in the 8 games have gone: 3-0-4-2-0-1-4-1. the two games with 4 walks were the crazy arizona game vs. haren and the houston game with the 5 unearned runs. i think those are outliers that, in SSS, artificially inflate his per-game average.
That’s a really, really bad point. Those starts happened. Those numbers count. Admittedly, he was getting squeezed in Arizona, but I could equally say “Well, those two games where he walked nobody look like outliers, so I’ll just ignore those and now his walkrate is closer to 5 per 9”. Pitchers will have good games and bad games, and FWIW there doesn’t even look to be a huge amount of variance in that sample.
It doesn’t matter what the size of the sample is. If a guy throws enough games where he walks 4 or 5 hitters his walkrate is going to be reasonably high. Just throwing out the data that doesn’t fit your hypothesis is plain wrong.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
also, re: getting squeezed in Arizona
he got one, possibly two, strike 3’s the other night on balls that were WAY outside the zone. Swings and roundabouts.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
i actually don't remember him getting squeezed in arizona
i thought he just pitched like crap, the only game of the year, imo, that he has. he also pitched poorly in the houston game after things started going wrong, but that portion of the game was much shorter than the innings that preceded it, in which he pitched arguably his best of the year.
it was the first game of the year, with the 3 walks, that he was squeezed. and i’m not throwing out any of the walks, just pointing out the SSS. same thing with carp and homers, when he was giving up around 2 a game – it happened, but i really don’t think that’ll be his average by year’s end. lohse will likely walk batters at the same rate as 2008 so long as he continues pitching like he has.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yep you're right
it was the first game of the year.
lohse will likely walk batters at the same rate as 2008 so long as he continues pitching like he has.
I disagree, but I’m clearly not going to convince you.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 20, 2010 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions
because i am a bastard, monk
and so no, you will not convince me – i love kyle lohse, obviously.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
His FIP is great
His xFIP, which normalizes HR/FB to league average, is about 1/5 of a run below his ERA. So he’s not pitching THAT well, he’s just been lucky with home runs. Not Jaime Garcia I-get-a-shitload-of-ground-balls lucky either, lucky that more of the fly balls that are hit aren’t leaving the yard.
Errors are going to happen, but it’s not like he pitched very well after the errors either. If your teammate makes a mistake, you try and pick him up by making good pitches and getting out of it. That’s what Carp and WW do — they bear down. Lohse seems to struggle when put in bad spots by his defense or by himself by walking too many hitters. That’s on him, not the rest of the team.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
that's assuming his hr/fb rate is going to be league average
there are obviously pitchers on both sides of that number, and he could very well end up on the good side. i think you have to account for IFFB% in his FB rate, and last i checked he had a great thing going with that – i’d rather have an IFFB than a grounder. i believe before this round of starts he was at 15% and carp and jaime were at 0.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
His career HR/FB rate is 10%
that’s pretty much the definition of “average”.
His IFFB% is marginally lower than his career rate this year.
He’s not doing anything different to usual in terms of his pitching, that I can see.
What do you think he is doing specifically this year that means he’s suddenly able to only give up 3% of his flyballs for homeruns when no-one has ever sustainably done that in the past?
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
There are no pitchers with a "talent" for suppressing home runs
None. It’s been proven not to be predictive over the course of entire careers and pitching eras. You’ll have guys who give up fewer fly balls (like Lowe, Pineiro, Webb), and thus fewer home runs, but nearly all pitchers will normalize to around 10% over the long run, so expecting it to stay well below league average is illogical.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
over a small sample
it could be an issue of quality of batters faced. for instance, just based on the pseudorandomness of opponents faced he may have faced more batters with skill sets similar to brendan ryan than batters with skill sets similar to albert pujols. i’m definitely not up to the tast of looking up all the batters he’s faced and finding out the average HR/FB of all those batters and then looking at the number of fly balls given up to each of those, but it’s possible that his low HR/FB over a handful of starts isn’t entirely attributable to luck on FBs staying in the park
i’m not saying lohse is going to sustain this low rate or that it should be expected, but it’s possible. over the least 3 years, lincecum is giving up around 6.5% of his FBs for HRs
something to think about
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on May 19, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
being able to induce IFFBs helps
I think some pitchers have, over a long period, been able to sit around the 7-8% mark, but really, Lohse isn’t one of those guys.
As for Lincecum, I guess playing half his games in San Francisco must help. Look at Trevor Hoffman’s career HR/FB ratio in San Diego.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
IFFBs are included in HR/FB?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on May 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I think so
they’re certainly included in the overall figure for flyballs. However, I’m not sure if the HR/FB figure subtracts IFFB from FB overall. I believe it does not.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
so they are
i thought they were separated
i would imagine that IFFB would be included in HR/FB, then
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on May 19, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Well xFIP definitely seperates infield fly balls
by vivaelpujols on May 20, 2010 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions
so what's it all mean?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
do we consider IFFB or not when considering
fb%, and thus hr/fb%?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
ok, thanks
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
also
how much more hitter friendly is at&t than busch? it’s not exactly hitters’ paradise
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on May 19, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
lohse in 2008
had an IFFB% of 8.6, and this year he’s presently at 10.0. he’s not going to end the year with a 3.3% hr/fb, but it won’t necessarily be 10 either. in 2008 his was 8.6%.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Whoah, this is definitely incorrect
You can say that in a small sample size, HR/FB should be regressed heavily to the league average, but over a large sample it’s a very skill influenced stat.
by vivaelpujols on May 20, 2010 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I dunno if I'd say "very"
has anyone in history (in the live ball era) been able to cut it down below about 7% or had a career with it above about 13% over a large enough sample size?
How do we know that the very rare outliers are due to skill and not variance, given the vast number of pitchers who exist in recent history? Just interested.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 20, 2010 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Read this
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/pre_introducing_batted_ball_fip_part_2/
Besides, it’s common sense. Some pitchers obviously give up harder hit fly balls than others. The only reason xFIP became popular is that it’s hard to seperate the skill from the noise in a small sample size. Over 3-4 seasons, you shouldn’t be regressing HR/FB that much (outside of adjusting for home ballpark).
by vivaelpujols on May 20, 2010 5:05 AM EDT up reply actions
that was an interesting article - thanks
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
It kind of pisses me off when people say pitchers have no control over HR/FB
I really have no idea where that started as the data certainly doesn’t implicate that.
by vivaelpujols on May 20, 2010 5:20 AM EDT up reply actions
couldn't there be variance per pitcher per year?
there certainly is with batters. i believe there is far too much emphasis on individual career and league average numbers, since guys have good years and bad. right now i am witnessing a good year from a pitcher, pitch by pitch, who is getting castigated as needlessly as he is handsome. i’m sure dave duncan is pretty happy. a couple things need to be tightened up a bit, but otherwise we are good to go.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Lohse isn't pitching very well
That’s why his ERA is super high, if he was pitching well his ERA would be low.
Trying to prognosticate how well he will pitch in the future is tough business. If you take 2008, around a 3.80 true talent level, as his peak performance and compare that to this year, he doesn’t look that great. The velocity on all of his pitches is down:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=739&position=P#pitchtype
He’s throwing fewer pitches inside the strike zone and getting fewer swings on pitches outside of the strike zone.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=739&position=P#pitchtype
His contact rate is the same as it was in 2008, but even with the minor decline in his stuff, that should be leading to harder hit balls.
Of course we have no idea how good Lohse is going forward, and xFIP in a 50 inning sample doesn’t tell you much at all, but we can be pretty confident that he is likely a lot worse than his peak in 2008.
I’m betting on a league average ERA.
by vivaelpujols on May 20, 2010 5:15 AM EDT up reply actions
he's throwing more pitches outside the zone
but getting roughly the same amount of strikes – i personally like this approach, and believe it will lead to great results if he can keep his strike rate basically the same as 2008, which he has, with actually throwing fewer pitches in the zone, to me this is very good.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
His strike rate is down by 3% this year from 2008
Which isn’t basically the same. That equates to about 90 fewer strikes over a 3,000 pitch season. Let’s say the average strike is worth .16 runs
http://blog.stealingfirst.com/2008/04/02/switching-a-ball-to-a-strike/
Those fewer 90 strikes are worth 14 runs, which turns a 3.80 ERA into a 4.40 ERA over 200 innings.
Those fewer strikes are directly caused by him throwing fewer pitches in the strike zone and getting fewer swings on pitches outside of the strike zone. The former hints are worsened control while the latter hints as worsened stuff.
by vivaelpujols on May 20, 2010 5:49 AM EDT up reply actions
see, i disagree
he’s throwing far fewer pitches in the zone than he is losing strikes (from 62 to 60 percent). i like the decline of about 6% of pitches thrown in the zone (i think that’s about what it was) if accompanied by only a 2% decline in strikes – i obviously look at this a different way, but it is pretty much what i would advise. at that, i’m exhausted talking about KFL – i seriously don’t know the man, have no horse in this race, and don’t even feel a need to defend him in some sort of altruistic way – i just feel strongly about a certain philosophy that is being executed, imo, and that the results will show. can’t we just wait it out a bit longer, see how it goes?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
btw
“Boog” does come from Boog Powell. Nicknaming it further would break time-space.
It’s not even the actual family nickname… there’s a ‘The’ in there.
→ Boog and his mom. yes, he’s the youngest by a lot. mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/mothersday/postcards_08/stl.jsp
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
He should have a sitcom called "Leave it to Booger"
I’d watch.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
after the massive hit of Boog and Bombs?
you know what they say about spinoffs.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
spinoffs? With mustaches?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on May 18, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you know
these rooks haven’t grown their facial hair yet. …well, there were a few who came up with it already, and we all know what happened to them.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
There's very little Lohse-hate here.
There’s a whole lot of “Lohse-contract” hate, and deservedly so. He is not a pitcher that should be making and AAV of $10M+, and if the Cardinals hadn’t given him such a ridiculous contract at the time and waited it out, like they should have, three things could have happened:
- Kyle Lohse signs a 2Y$16M contract with the Cardinals in January of 2009.
- Kyle Lohse gets overpaid by someone else or signs a contract with someone else. The Cardinals then use that money to sign Randy Wolf, Carl Pavano, Jon Garland, John Smoltz, or Brad Penny to a cheap, one year contract. This would have then allowed them to keep Joel Piniero this season OR bring in two of the above 5 guys instead of just one of them.
- Lohse doesn’t sign with St. Louis and the Cardinals go with a rookie at the back end of the rotation in 2009, leaving them the opportunity to bring back Joel Pineiro (or sign Pavano, Smoltz, etc.) this season along with signing Penny.
All of those things are infinitely better uses of the money that the club gave Kyle Lohse. It’s a bad contract — it has nothing to do with his performance, he is who he is at this point — a #4 starter getting paid #3 starter money. There’s nothing wrong with being a #4 starter, it’s getting paid like a #3 to be a #4 that pisses so many people, including myself, off.
If you want to go parading around his accomplishments from last night, you might want to wait and see what the rest of our staff does to this Nationals lineup. He didn’t have to face their best lefty power threat (Dunn) last night, and he was well on his way to a bad first inning if Yadi doesn’t cut down Willie Harris (which was fucking amazing considering the size of the jump that he’d gotten off of Lohse). The Cardinals spotted him a 4 run lead in the bottom of the inning and took the pressure off of him as well. If you’re Lohse, you couldn’t have asked for a better situation to pitch well.
Just ask yourself one question: Did you think that 4 runs was enough to win last night at the end of the first inning? Yup, me neither. If any one of our other starters was on the mound, I’d think that was enough to win against a lineup without Adam Dunn in it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on May 18, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
actually i thought the final would be 6-3 before the game started
with the bullpen giving up one of the three. so when we put up a four-spot in the first, yes, i was pretty confident. but it’s good to know that all the “lohse sucks” and “about time for lohse to blow up” in the game threads are just references to his contract.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
that's a fair comment
I haven’t been in the game threads at all this year so I wouldn’t have noticed that. Still, they’re USUALLY not the most sane of places, I’d say…
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I've been in one game thread in my entire life
I hated it, and I haven’t been back. It’s stream of consciousness rambling and emotional reactions in there. Even the most level headed of us cuss a bad outcome now and then — I’ve cussed Pujols for taking all the way on 3-0 before coming to my senses that he probably has forgotten more about hitting than I’ll ever know.
Using the game threads as an example of people ripping on Lohse, when he’s pitched badly in games, is just an exercise in inflated expectations of what game threads are. I don’t see a lot of us in the main or fan posts ripping him to shreds. It’s mostly just that we’ll pay him significant money over the next two years to be league average at best.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
The cussing of stoopid plays is one thing,
but the level of Asshattery this year is getting unbearable, IMO.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I just stay out.
It’s unbearable for me to listen to the conclusion jumping that goes on in those threads.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
what's league average (2 wins) worth on the open market?
’round about $9MM?
okay
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on May 19, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Not in the current market.
It’s about $7.2M based on the figures from last year’s free agent market.
Furthermore, there’s only one team in baseball that can actually pay market price per win and make the playoffs. Let’s round 3.6M up to $4M for ease of calculation:
A replacement level team will win about 48 games. To guarantee a playoff spot every year, you’d need to win about 95 games. 95 – 48 = 47 wins. 47W * $4M/W = $188M. So paying BELOW MARKET is not just preferred, it’s required of at least 45% of your roster if your payroll is around $100M
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
that erroneously assumes
that every player’s salary will be assigned based on the free agent market. simply not true. it’s the players like colby, yadi, waino, etc., whose salaries were determined when they did not have the luxury of playing the market that allow teams not named yankees to win
every single player who signed as a free agent. including the psuedo free agents who could have played the market, but opted not to (lohse, miller, franklin) are making pretty damn close to market value based on their average WAR over the last few season
one exception: felipe lopez. and i think we can all agree that floppy is not a very good example of how the MLB free agent market works
paying market value for free agents is the norm. that’s why it’s the market value. some are better (floppy) some are worse (soriano). in the end it all evens out and if all your free agents contracts even out to somewhere around market vlaue, you’re doing fine. what does matter is how much of your roster is taken up by the rasmuses of the world. but that’s scouting and development, not a GM’s ability to negotiate a contract
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I'm not assuming anything
I’m simply saying that paying market value for wins isn’t possible. So saying that “we’re simply paying him market value”, which isn’t true either, as a means to defend a shitty contract doesn’t hold up under scrutiny.
We’re not going to pay Albert Pujols market value, and we’re not paying Matt Holliday market value either.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
if as you state 3.6 is the market value for a win
then holliday has to be worth roughly 5 wins a year over the course of the contract, right, for it to be market value?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
That would be about right, yes
although I think that by 2012, 2013 or so, we’ll see the market climb back up to around $4.5M – $5M per win or so, which will make the Holliday contract more affordable.
Also, Matt Holliday has been worth 5.5 WAR or better in the three seasons leading up to his free agency. Kyle Lohse had two seasons of +3 WAR prior to his signing, and they were 6 years apart (‘03 Twins, ’08 Cardinals), and in one of those he was pitching for a big contract, which is a huge incentive to put your best performance out there. It’s much easier to project Holliday for +5 WAR for at least the next 2-3 seasons than it would have been to project Lohse to be a +3 WAR pitcher for the next 2-3 seasons.
His best talent is pitching a lot of average innings and taking the ball every fifth day. I’m just saying it’s dangerous to pay a lot of money for that type of performance when you might be better off sticking to one year deals for guys like Penny and 2008 Kyle Lohse rather than locking up a rubber armed starter who’s been below average for most of his career for four years.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
well, i hope the value of a win stays down
until after pujols signs, although i’m not sure all the same rules apply to him. but in the current valuation of a win, howard’s contract sure seems even worse than i was thinking.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
paying market value
for FA wins is not only possible, it’s generally necessary
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
yeah, the key is to lock up your good home-grown talent
at a bargain price – wish we’d done that after last year with colby. still, the sooner the better, imo, because i think the price can only go up.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
where did you get that $3.6MM figure from anyway?
just curious, because last year, it was closer to $4.5MM
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
The average FA contract $ per win last year came out to around $3.65M or so.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
You might want to carry a book in front of that.
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on May 18, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i've read this in every tone imaginable to me
and still have no idea what it means.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
explain it then please
i’ve had numerous people read that, and no one can make heads nor tails of it. we’re all sort of landed gentry, if you will, so there could just be something missing the mark (as in, we’re all sort of snobs, particularly with the written word)
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
so presumably you are as lost as i
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
huh?
hmmm…i guess that could be it. so i’m gay? damn, i should’ve known once i developed a man-crush for colby that something like this could happen.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
btw dan, i didn't see him struggle tonite by going to a breaking ball
he did use it effectively at a point, after yadi went out and talked to him. but there were the two skipper errors, a ball skip just can’t get to but we know that, and a bloop, but i’ll have to see if any were off the curve – to my recollection he was back-dooring it to lefties and it was untouched, but i will certainly look for that when i replay the game. fwiw, in his last outing his fastball, two-seamer variety, seemed pretty dominant until that second boogy error – by historically are you talking pre-dunc, four-seamer days?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
eh, i forgot about the leadoff hit by harris to begin the game
that skippy couldn’t get – again, i wish lopex played second. i could even deal with boogy at short, even though i think ty should get a shot. but 2b is untenable defensively right now – we might as well plant a pole and hope for a ricochet.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on May 18, 2010 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ok, after watching every pitch
and all of about 10 curves, lohse was certainly not hurt by a breaking ball. besides one show-me slider to the pitcher on 0-2, he threw almost exclusively 2 seamers and change-ups, and the curves were very effective to get ahead of lefties, sometimes 0-2 – only 2 curves were put in play, one of which skip threw away, and the other he fielded to end that inning. in the seventh, when lohse was removed, there was a grounder to schu that stuck in his glove on a two-seamer, and a bloop to right on a change, the only off-speed pitch that one could say he was “hurt” by all night.
also, what do you mean by “with nothing else seeming to work”? looked like everything worked fine, when thrown, but he is a 2-seamer guy – if you saw his last start, before a certain second error derailed him, he was pristine, and almost exclusively 2-seamers.
you being someone many here take their cues from, please explain your position.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He is a two seamer guy, but his two seamer has been up, and that's what's caused him issues.
Just humor me and take a look at these two links:
- This is Kyle Lohse Pitch F/X for 2010, with just the two seamers highlighted (PF/X classifies them as SI or Sinker)
- This is Joel Piniero Pitch F/X for 2010, with the same pitch highlighted.
Now, go down to the graph that says “Pitch Locations by Type”. See the difference? Piniero buries the ball down and in and gets most of his called strikes near the bottom of the zone. Lohse has lots of called strikes that are UP in the zone, and he’s not consistently pounding the bottom of the zone like Piniero is.
Here’s Lohse in 2008. The classifications are different, but it’s the same pitch, his 2 seam fastball that sinks. Look at the called strike chart and compare it with the one above. He pounded the hell out of the bottom of the zone and nearly all of his called strikes that season are below the thigh level and towards the outside of the plate. He’s not doing that this year and that’s why he’s been pounded.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i applaud this post.
however, a draco malfoy songfic would also have received full marks.
dan, i would like to see the group therapy session dr. moore would host for kyle and other overpaid starters in a future post.
also, there is a link on my sidebar that is excessively tantalizing: “albert pujols” angrily attacks a TV reporter in st. louis."
i noted the quotation marks, but still hoped that it was the real albert and that maybe one of my least favorite reporters was the victim (the “TV” thing limited the scope, unfortunately). sadly, like the fictionalized “models” on web advertisements, the link was a depressing tease.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
i completely agree
on the songfic.
and what? you didn’t like the bird? the angry, angry bird and the subsequent teen-girl scream?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
We just had to give him the no-trade clause...
I’m sure he would’ve left the $40 million+ on the table without the NTC. I hope Mo never lets Boras do this to him again…
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
he would have left it
remember, this was before the economy collapsed. lohse was actually pulled from his last start of 08 to sign this deal. he was willing to do it without hitting free agency on the condition of the NTC – he gave up what appeared to be more for him in free agency because he wanted to stay here, and asked for that assurance in return.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
to be clear
the club pushed for this, and lohse was aboard – boras would have gone to free agency.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Seems like a Boras..
induced fantasy market. He does this. Maybe other teams would’ve been lined up for Kyle Lohse, maybe not.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
i do not know
but i suppose they would have, and thus mo’s reluctance to take that chance. at that point, we had waino and nothing else we have now, and remember waino missed about 6 weeks with that finger. no one knew about carp, and it was a precarious time for a team hoping to contend the following year after 2 straight misses…and they contended until the dodgers.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
effin avocado
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
And FWIW
I believe you make a very good point there about the dearth of other good options in St Louis at the time. I still don’t think that makes it a very good deal or made it look good at the time (I’d say the feeling here was about 95% against it), but it does make the signing more understandable.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I personally figured it was just barely worth it
Fair open market value for a mediocre pitcher. The problem is that fair open market value isn’t much of a value.
Not afraid to nitpick
Hindsight is 20/20
But a lot of us were saying at the time that it didn’t make sense to set the market with a guy coming off of a career year. Sabathia, Lowe, and Burnett were all FA and should have set the market. When Lowe signed his 4Y$60M deal (also a gross overpay that I’m sure Atlanta is regretting, but us signing Lohse probably didn’t help those negotiations either), that should have been the signal that Lohse wasn’t worth 4Y$41M, because Lowe was a much more effective pitcher the previous 3 seasons and was projected to be better going forward.
We overpaid a guy due to a career year, and then gave him a NTC when it wasn’t necessary. If the point is that he wants to stay in St. Louis and be protected from trade, then he should take a contract at less than market value. We ended up giving him a deal that’s worth WAY more than market value of his skillset, and a NTC clause to boot.
If we had to pay WW and Yadi what they’re worth instead of the fantastic club friendly contracts they’ve signed, this deal would probably prevent us from signing Pujols to a long term deal or signing Holliday at all. I don’t see how either of those situations are good for the organization.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i'm not really sure what you;re getting at
with that last paragraph, but lohse was (essentially) a free agent when he signed this contract. neither waino or yadi were
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on May 18, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he's saying that the Lohse contract could've hamstrung the team
were it not for relatively cheap production we’re getting other places.
by brackenthebox on May 18, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
This
If you’re the Yankees, Dodgers, Giants, or Red Sox, you can afford to make a $10M mistake. The Cardinals can’t, especially if they’re going to be paying $40M of a $100M – $110M payroll to two players starting in 2012.
Bad contracts like this one can really hurt a small or mid-market team to the point of costing them the opportunity to compete for pennants for a number of years.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
really
when lohse is worst — and only bad — contract on the team, your GM is doing a pretty damn good job
his contract will suck in 2012, but not like holliday’s will suck in 2016 or any number of other examples i could give from other teams, cough cubs cough
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
The mid-to-late '10s scare the shit out of me for this team
by jd is legend on May 18, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
As well those years should...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
cough cough carlos lee cough cough
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Sure
That’s true, I’m not even going to argue with it.
But that’s not the point of the thread. The point of the original comment is that everyone is ragging Lohse and that he hasn’t pitched badly, when most of the vitriol is over his contract and that vitriol is understandable because the contract is pretty bad.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
and also
he has pitched quite badly by most means of measurement. He’s been unlucky, too, but that shouldn’t detract from the fact that he could be doing a lot of things a lot better.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, absolutely
they’re both great contracts. any team not named the yankees absolutely have to get cheap production like that
lock up colby! 6/30!
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I would have been just as surprised if anyone gave Kyle Lohse $40m
as I would if anyone gave Matt Holliday $120m+. I think Mo just, sometimes, overpays for players he wants (equally, he sometimes gets some good deals too, more usually on short term deals: Lohse deal #1, and Floppy, for instance).
And, in any case, if some idiot (Omar Minaya?) wants to give Kyle Lohse $40m, that doesn’t make it any more sensible for us to do so. Just because someone gave Barry Zito $100m+ doesn’t mean he was ever worth that.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Just like that previous Spring Training when the teams were all lined up.
Wait.
You can read it in any tone you like.
I don't see how you can make this statement.
he gave up what appeared to be more for him in free agency because he wanted to stay here
No other pitcher with Lohse’s reputation signed a contract with near the value of his later that offseason. Not in terms of years, AAV, NTC, nothing. So please, enlighten me as to why he would think he was getting more elsewhere outside of pure Boras speculation.
This is the same guy who said A-Rod was going to get $350M when he settled for $275 and said Stephen Strasburg was getting a $50M contract and ended up with less than $20M all-in. Just looking at the 2009 signings, I can’t find one that compares to the Lohse deal for a similar type of pitcher.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
About the closest comp is Derek Lowe, I guess?
but he was a much better (albeit older) pitcher with a much better career track record. I guess it was a year with one good pitcher (CC), a couple of decent #2-types (Burnett, Lowe) and then maybe Lohse was next. Not sure I can recall anyone else. I’d say Lowe was the best comp but he was definitely a much better pitcher, and I think he only got about 2 or 3m per year more, didn’t he (and that contract is hardly looking very clever in retrospect!).
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
A lot of the other comparable pitchers were coming off of injury
Randy Wolf would have been one I’d think of.
Lohse’s best season isn’t in Derek Lowe’s top 4 best seasons. So I don’t see them as comparable pitchers.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
no, I think you're right. He was just the nearest I could think of.
Maybe Brad Penny’s in there too. But there really wasn’t anyone like lohse.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Piniero would be close
and I’d much rather have him and his deal than Lohse.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
no crystal ball here
No other pitcher with Lohse’s reputation signed a contract with near the value of his later that offseason. Not in terms of years, AAV, NTC, nothing. So please, enlighten me as to why he would think he was getting more elsewhere outside of pure Boras speculation
.
You do make a good point. But FA trends from previous years would lead one to believe that someone very well could of. It was more like buying a house at the top of the market. The market crashed and now we are upside down on the mortgage.
That's true
but it leads to my overall point — we signed him too soon. You don’t set the market with a #4 starter, which is what we did.
FWIW, Lehman Brothers went under a full 2 weeks prior to the Lohse signing. The economy had a lot of uncertainty at the time, Madoff had been outed as a Ponzi schemer, and the TARP was passed through both houses of Congress less than a week later. Go back and look at the front pages of the Times and WSJ in the two weeks leading up to the Lohse signing — the markets were in full fledged panic mode. Not the best time to sign a career #4 starter to a $41M contract. Only two teams ended up spending significant money (>$50 in contracts for FA) that offseason — the Yankees (CC, A.J., and Tex) and the Braves (Lowe). That’s it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
well, if you want to bash mo for the lohse contract, go ahead
but unless it’s part of a larger argument to fire the man, it seems pointless this far down the line. personally i think mo’s done a pretty good job – even though i hate the holliday contract even more than the lohse deal, i don’t want mo fired.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He's not arguing to fire him
he’s just saying that, in a vacuum, the Lohse deal is bad, and was bad when it was signed. I think that’s fair comment, and I don’t think it’s in retrospect either – I’d say 95% of comments here at the time thought it was going to be a poor deal going forward.
I don’t want Mo fired either. He’s done (and does do) a lot of good things, but he’s overpaid on a couple of FA contracts (Holliday being another). I think there’s more chance of Holliday being worth his deal than Lohse, however (although there’s also more risk/downside associated if he turns into Carlos Lee).
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
So it's irresponsible for me
to state that this was a shitty contract unless I want to fire Mo? How is that logical?
I don’t agree with everything my employees do or that my boss does, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t bring up those issues to keep them from happening again just because I don’t want them fired.
I think Mo’s done a great job with this team, but I also think that the Lohse deal was one of his biggest mistakes, and I’d bet he’d say the same thing if he could speak openly about it behind closed doors.
Everything is not black and white, as much as you’d like it to be. You can criticize one thing and not openly loathe the whole operation.
If I was grading Mo, I’d give him a solid B for the way he’s built this team, giving credit for the Yadi and WW deals, the Skip and Ludwick deals, the Edmonds/Freese deal, and being critical of the Lohse contract, the Greene trade (which I think has more to do with not requesting a psychological diagnosis than anything else), and what was given up in the DeRosa deal. I actually like the Holliday deal and I think it will be a good one for the club.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i have yet to see anyone this year defend the lohse contract
without any dissenting views, it just seems pointless, to me, to bring it up so often. if at some point the organization was considering a similar deal for a similar player, i could see rehashing it.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
The reason it's been brought up here
is that you went on a pissed off rant about people not giving Kyle Lohse his due and Felonius and I merely pointed out that it has a lot more to do with the org getting fucked on that contract than by his performance. We know he’s a #4 starter, we just paid him like a #3 starter. It’s unsettling.
I don’t bring it up that often at all — I’ve made my peace with it. Other people haven’t. But telling them to “eat some crow” after one good start is not a good way to get them to stop talking about it. You’re just going to incite an internet riot by doing that.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on May 19, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
not even sure what an internet riot is
but how did you arrive at this conclusion?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
that one good start is all i was referring to
because the people eating crow were from that specific game thread. so it didn’t pertain to you or monk at all, and wasn’t intended to. it was aimed at those who constantly do the “lohse sucks” routine when they don’t even know why they say it, other than that’s what everyone else says.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Dude
I’ve seen people say “Pujols sucks” in a gamethread. It’s meaningless blather and emotionally charged. Anything goes in those threads, so lets not start drawing conclusions about “everyone” from them, ok?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
who said "everyone"?
i just specifically said otherwise. and i have no problem with anyone saying anything in a game thread about any player when something happens – it’s understandable, and expected. i’m talking about a constant hum of “lohse sucks” and the like when it’s not even relevant to anything that’s actually happening. just because it’s a game thread doesn’t mean comments have to be trite and boorish and nonstop negative – which when tirelessly repeated, they become. what i’m talking about isn’t even edgy or emotionally-charged, it’s very humdrum, like some tired slogan mouthed by a senile old man in a communist-era soviet soldier’s home.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I bolded it in your comment here.
it was aimed at those who constantly do the "lohse sucks" routine when they don’t even know why they say it, other than that’s what everyone else says.
This seems like a blanket statement meant at “everyone”. If that’s not how it was intended, that’s fine, but I’m just pointing out that’s the way it was perceived by a few of us.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
yeah, sorry, i just meant that in the sense of a common phrase
such as when someone states, “well, that’s what everyone else says”. i actually didn’t mean it literally.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah, he does
also, if it wasn’t clear, i was really talking about “their” mindset with the use of the phrase, in that i was attributing that way of thinking to “them”.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Well technically
A-Rod’s 275M is mid-loaded which makes the NPV the same as a 300M backloaded deal with any kind of discount rate, and then he has 30M in incentives for the “historical achievements” of breaking HR records which it seems he’s on pace to do. A-Rod’s deal is insanely good for A-Rod. And then I think he said Strasburg was worth 50M not necessarily that he was gonna get it.
Just staying true to my sig.
Not afraid to nitpick
I could go on...
Holliday was supposed to get Teixeira money.
Felipe Lopez should have gotten a contract similar to O-Dog (He’s not WRONG, but it didn’t happen and he got fired)
The point is that he always inflates the market for players. Strasburg wasn’t worth $50M because he wasn’t in a position to earn $50M. The market isn’t what you say it is, it’s a combination of leverage, negotiation, and environment.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
floppy should have gotten better than hudson money
he was worth every bit of $10MM last year as fluky as it may have been
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
True
But the market doesn’t work that way, obviously, and if he still had Boras representing him and asking for $5M per season, my guess is that he wouldn’t have a job. $1M is better than nothing if you’re Lopez, holding out for $5M is better for Boras because he gets a larger commission. Lopez figured out that Boras didn’t really give a shit whether he played or not this season and fired his ass.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
A few days later and he would've taken whatever the Cards would give him.
Timing is a bitch.
You can read it in any tone you like.
the Rays guy, Friedman was on WWL, and he said something that struck me
Along the lines of “We also need luck on our side. It’s difficult to put together a business model based on luck.”
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true of nearly everything.
Very rarely can success be completely attributed to planning and effort. Same with failure.
You can read it in any tone you like.
yeah
people act as if in hindsight that the management should have been able to predict the future. if they could do that, wouldn’t we be in the world series like every season?
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed...
but bad planning + bad luck = certain failure. So why not have at least one of them on your side.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think someone mentioned
that at the time, the only sure thing was Wainwright, and he’d been injured.
Lohse began negotiations in midsummer, in any case.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
So the attitude was...
Well, we’ve only got one pitcher that we can count on currently, and we’ve been negotiating since mid-season with Kyle, so even though the markets appear to be in chaos and the economy heading towards a severe recession or depression, fuck it, let’s just sign him anyway! No Trade Clause? Sure, why the hell not!?!?!?!
How that doesn’t equate with “bad planning” is just beyond me.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
uh, I do not think anyone saw that the markets were heading for *anything* until literally weeks after the signing.
and since the more I find out about the economic downturn seems to have been largely shadowy dealings in the depths of Wall Street, I am wondering how exactly Mo was supposed to know this and what brand of time machine he was using. Let’s not revise history.
The NTC was a natural extension of doing business with Boras and the fact that Kyle did not want to leave. He had a young child and his family was tired of moving. So do the Cards go out on the open market and test the value of those overpriced pitchers who may or may not take to Dave Duncan, or do they keep the guy who’s bought in, wants to stay, and is better than Todd Wellemeyer and Mitchell Boggs?
They planned with the information they had. In midsummer, the economy seemed to be chugging along.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Trying to keep this as politic free as possible
The economic downturn had to do with this. The causes of that were from a whole bunch of different areas. It very much wasn’t just Wall Street shadiness.
Not afraid to nitpick
link is broken
but based on the URL, i’d agree. i worked in residential construction those few years before the economic epic fail and it got so bad (in columbia, at least) that i had to find another job. aka: the story of how i wound up in texas
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
He's not supposed to know, that's the whole point.
He certainly couldn’t have known that everything was going to be BUSINESS AS USUAL, because Congress doesn’t have emergency midnight sessions and release $700B for no reason at all.
Had they waited even 1 month, he probably signs for 2Y$18 or even 1Y$9M and hoped to make better money down the line. If the assumption is that there were multiple teams lined up to pay him more than what we paid him, then where were those teams in March of 2008 and why should we pay the stupid tax just because someone else wants to?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
exactly
just because Omar Frickin Minaya gave Oliver Perez 20 years and eleventy bazillion dollars to throw balls to the backstop, doesn’t mean we didn’t miss a trick by giving him twelvety bazillion…
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
The Rays are awesome
Know why the Rays are awesome? They don’t grossly overpay people because they can’t. They’ve been either really lucky with the Longoria/Crawford/Upton contracts or they know what they’re doing in terms of negotiation. They dumped Scott Kazmir before he hit FA and got something for him. Their one mistake was probably not dealing Andy Sonnanstine after his epic 2008.
Mo has shown this. The first Lohse contract was great. Extending Molina and WW showed foresight and good negotiating skills. He’s even been pretty good at negotiating arbitration deals before they go to arbitration. But occasionally, he makes a brain fart, and Lohse definitely was one of those. Matt Holliday may be another, but I’m not near as pissed about that deal, because Holliday can be an elite player and has shown himself to be one. Lohse isn’t an elite pitcher, never has been, and is unlikely to ever be.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Upton isn't on any special contract other than arbitration
And Pat Burrell was every bit as bad a mistake for the Rays as Lohse is.
Not afraid to nitpick
I can't blame them for Burrell
considering he’d had three almost identical years before falling off the cliff. I definitely thought it was better than the Phillies replacing him with Ibañez, at the time.
I think everyone did
I think you can argue, prospectively, there was every reason at the time to think Burrell deal>Lohse deal.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
So they should have predicted that Pat Burrell
would suddenly become replacement level? They don’t have a crystal ball, so I don’t see how that’s possible. The guy put up 4 straight years of 125 OPS+ and was coming off of a season in which he hit 33 homers and was entering his age 32 season. Hell, there were people all over these boards clamoring to get him for that price and were pissed when that’s what he went for.
They spent $16M over 2 seasons for a guy in the top 25 in slugging for four straight years. I don’t see how that’s a bad contract at the time. The Cardinals spent more than TWICE that much for a pitcher who had exactly ONE season in his entire career with and ERA+ above 110. His career ERA+ was 96. Burrell’s career OPS+ was 115. Considering that he was a better player with a better track record for less than half the money and half the years, I don’t see any way you can compare the contracts as “equally bad” at the time they were signed.
Hindsight is always 20/20, but you can’t make a case that the Burrell contract was bad at the time of the signing — in fact, I think that BtB had it as one of the best value signings of that offseason if I remember correctly.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i agree it didn't look too bad at the time
considering he was signed to DH. it would’ve looked differently had a NL club signed him to play left. didn’t dunn get 2/20? i’d much rather pay the extra couple million a year for dunn, but then i’ve never been much of a burrell fan.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
So would I, and so did the Rays
If memory serves, they were talking with Dunn’s agent prior to the Burrell signing, but Dunn didn’t want to be a DH and Tampa wasn’t going to put him on the field. Which probably has cost him umpteen millions and a shot at playing for a ring the past couple of years.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
ok, forgot about them talking to dunn
but that makes sense, since the nats guy was on here the other day talking about how much dunn enjoyed playing the field.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Seems selfish
considering how badly he hurts his team by playing in the field. Unless he thinks he simply can’t hit well when playing DH.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
could be the case somewhat with burrell
based on nothing, i don’t think albert would hit as well as strictly a DH. like stav as a ph – i think he’s just happy to be here, but if he was disgruntled and thought he should be starting, he might not give us those ph homers.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
He was an old man player and always has been
The Phillies obviously thought he wasn’t going to keep up his previous levels or performance, or else they wouldn’t have paid Ibanez 3/30 over offering arby to Burrell. Not saying the Rays should have been able to predict that, but it appears that the Phillies might have.
by vivaelpujols on May 20, 2010 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions
sort of how i felt
and if it’s a successful team closest to the root, i pay more attention to what they do/think.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
And FWIW
there were two big market shocks in September, and the demise of Lehman and Bear Stearns during the summer. It doesn’t take a genius to see that we’re entering a recession.
I think that your timeline is a little off here — there were plenty of people speculating about a long term recession as early as August, and a lot more after Lehman went under.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
and my timeline begins in midsummer.
we all saw how long it takes to negotiate with Boras. are you saying they back out while Lohse is still pitching for us ?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Not to mention
the ridiculous spike in worldwide fuel prices that were sure to precipitate at least a small recession
Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot
Um, yes
table it until the offseason, see where the market is. Funny thing, I didn’t see a lot of other teams in a rush to sign their free agent non-all stars before the end of the season.
Why can’t you get your head around this being a bad deal? It IS a bad deal, because it was signed before it needed to be, given a NTC that wasn’t needed, overpays a mediocre starter because the team didn’t have a plan for filling out it’s rotation, and pays a guy because he can “eat innings” rather than “be a good pitcher”. Durability is nice, but nobody seems to care that Kip Wells never misses a start, because Kip Wells sucks.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't think you're getting any argument that it's a bad contract
The horse is pretty clearly dead….I don’t see the use in continuing to beat the hell out of it. Hopefully Mo has learned from the mistake.
That's what Yadi's saying though
that at the time it wasn’t a bad contract, even though most of us at VEB AT THE TIME thought it was a bad deal.
I’m not beating a horse, I’m just trying to figure out why he doesn’t think it was a bad contract….
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
get over it
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
He's still better than Deepak Chopra.
While we might not have Dr. Dan back, I fully expect to hear about him working at the Huffington Post or BCB in the near future.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Dr. Dan at BCB
“The Earth is 4.5 billion years old, so 102 years really isn’t that long!”
by jd is legend on May 18, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
SSS.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Like the article said
If he gets 180+ innings and a sub 4.50 era and Lohse and I can be friends.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
I think most people here feel this way.
We’ve accepted that Kyle Lohse is not worth his contract, and probably never will be. All we want is something approaching acceptable mediocrity from him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
this
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 18, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Plus - the following two things are not mutually exlcusive
1. I can think that Kyle is fine, but mediocre, and not worth his contract, on the whole
2. I can think during the course of an individual pitching performance, that he is not fine, that he made a terrible pitch, and that he didn’t give us a chance to win the game (or the opposite, in case he happened to pitch well)
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 18, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I can think during the course of an individual pitching performance, that he is not fine, that he made a terrible pitch, and that he didn’t give us a chance to win the game (or the opposite, in case he happened to pitch well)
HA!!!! WHEN HAS THAT BUM EVER PITCHED WELL
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
sbn'd.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Very good point.
Bemoaning a poor outing and celebrating a good one, all the while acknowledging the backdrop of a terrible contract, are all within the realm of fandom. These same types of reactions seem to be applied to Holliday, as well.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yadi setting up two feet outside
on two consecutive pitches to Dunn after Motte had gotten ahead 0-2 with two runners on just drove me nuts. It was as if Yadi wanted to crank up the degree of difficult for Motte just to see if the young guy could handle the pressure. On 2-2 and thereafter, Yadi again set up way outside but Motte said F it and blew fastballs over the heart of the plate. Loved the strikeout of Dunn on the high heat, the anti-Duncan pitch. The kid got beat up a few appearances ago and, instead of getting timid, has come back breathing fire.
he might be in the doghouse though
was supposed to walk dunn, although i know of no earthly reason why after getting the two strikes, but that’s what yadi called for – thank god on that 3-2 pitch with yadi set up nearly on third base motte missed so badly that it got a swing and a miss from dunn. it was almost a wild pitch it missed so badly.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
The outside pitch
One thing I wondered about was if Yadi did that to give him some breathing room to dial it up. When Motte throws 99 he has no idea where it’s going. Better to let a few rip like that by setting up off the plate and being ahead 0-2. Or I suppose they could have been trying to walk him.
T. Greene for SS
Leach addressed this in his "Chess Match" feature
And, with Dunn, the plan was to nibble, apparently:
Per TLR, the plan was to pitch Dunn “tough” — a concept we’ve addressed in this space before, where the idea is not to give the hitter anything over the plate but still hope you get him out. It’s a risky way to pitch.
The comment: "We just weren’t going to give him a cookie. You’re just going to pitch him tough, and Motte’s got some good stuff to try that with. You’re throwing 90-lus like that, it’s tough to center, but if there’s one guy who can, they had the right guy at bat. …
I really don’t like it when clubs do this. Especially after getting up 0-2, as jjray says, why give Dunn nothing close to the plate?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Given Motte's ability to pitch to lefties, there's a probably very viable argument for not having him pitch at all there
if the catcher is going to be under orders to set up so far outside… oh well, it worked.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
don't believe the pitch missed badly
but that Motte ignored where Yadi set up and intentionally pitched where he wanted … up over the plate.
Motte just channeled Major League
Forget the outside pitch Sauce; give him the heater.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Did you watch the
game? Motte hit the glove 0-2 and 1-2. The next two pitches over the plate were intentional.
i watched it
though he did hit his spots on the first two, i put more credence in his larger body of work.
and the last pitch as just luck. It was above the zone, and the donkey chased it.
so we're delusional for watching the game?
/confused
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
illogical - delusional was the wrong word
Motte has shown very little ability to his catcher’s glove. It’s much more likely that he missed over the plate, than he ignored yadi and intentionally pitched over the plate -
I really, really want a stat on this.
I would call it “Spots Missed.” I think this would help gauge a pitcher’s accuracy and the catcher’s ability to call games. We could isolate when a missed spot led to runs and when the pitcher hit his spot and the result was bad. With every game being televised, I don’t see why someone hasn’t gone through and started charting this.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Total disagree
from viewing that sequence. Motte hit his spot with four straight pitches (first two strikes and two balls where Yadi set up 2 feet outside). Then he threw the next three over the plate and not only do you say these were wild throws but, further, those who say he did it intentionally are “delusional” then backed down to “illogical”. Whatever. Just argue the facts. No need to launch a personal attack.
I agree
He missed where he was supposed to throw it by a country mile. If Yadi doesn’t snag it, even tho Dunn missed he still has to throw him out at first.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 18, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Motte says y'all are right, by the way.
10@10
"We were trying to go down and away," he said. "I tried to throw it too hard. It came up. It ended up working out. It wasn’t a strike. It worked out."
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
that would be cool
i don’t really think it true, but i’d like to – motte is crazy.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Why?
We want him to get himself out, and we know that he always takes the home run swing, so you don’t want to leave the ball near a part of the plate where he can mash it.
If he takes four 97 mph heaters off the plate, fine, the matchup behind him is much better for Motte anyway.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
With Dunn, I really dislike it.
He is a selective hitter. You know he is not going to swing at either of those pitches, because he doesn’t chase that often, and very likely won’t chase a flat and straight four-seam fastball from a righty. You are wasting pitches in an unproductive way that makes Motte’s job harder. I don’t understand that approach.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Yet
He swung at a fastball over his head to end the inning.
I’m specifically speaking to the OP here, who wanted him to throw gas near the plate. Well, you take your chances of him crushing one when you do that as well.
If I’ve got him 0-2, I’m not throwing him another ball near the middle 2/3 of the plate for the rest of the AB. If he walks, he walks. There’s a right handed batter in the on-deck circle that’s a better matchup for Motte anyway.
Pumping 97 mph gas down the cock is going to get you hurt more often than not.
You’re also not looking at the position of Motte on the rubber. He’s clear to the left hand side of the rubber, so Yadi setting up out there is setting the angle to get Dunn to chase a ball that looks like its on the outside half and continues to go further outside. He’s selective, but he also strikes out a lot, and one of the bigger holes in his swing is the pitch down and away.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
True
but there were already 2 men on so intentionally pitching around Dunn with 2 strikes – 0 balls did not look like the smart play. If the goal was to get Dunn to fish, four straight balls two feet outside the plate was not the answer. He showed on the first two that he was not going to nibble on that pitch. So Motte blew it over the plate but high to strike him out. Change of eye angle was effective. Dangerous? Yes but bases loaded is dangerous as well. I just detest the passivity of walking a guy with 2 strikes and 2 runners on.
The plan wasn't to walk him, the plan was to give him nothing to hit
If he wanted to swing, it wasn’t going to be at a good pitch. Motte isn’t a nibbler. If this was WW we’re talking about, it’s different. He can put the ball where he wants. Motte just throws where the mitt is and throws it as hard as he can.
I’d rather have bases loaded with a better matchup, than bases empty after Dunn puts one into the river.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Pumping 97 mph gas down the cock is going to get you hurt more often than not.
TW…HS?
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
motte has the potential
to be damn good in a year or two if he can put it all together. sadly, the other side of that coin is, he may continue to show flashes of brilliance, then give up big innings late and be a continuing source of frustration
i’m 1 for 2 on picking young players that i like to be stars (ank and waino), so we’ll see how it goes with motte
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I think he's fighting Yadi.
catcher v. catcher. he may plain not agree with the game-plan Yadi and Dunc put out there.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I think he's always going to have a well above-average HR rate
but I really can’t believe he’s not been a BIT unlucky thus far on HR/FB. Could take years to stabilise, but overall I think he’s going to be a pretty useful pitcher to right-handed hitters, his walk rate is lowering and he’s always going to K a batter an inning. I just have no confidence in him ever getting out lefties at an above-average rate.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't able to be around for the game
but is it possible, given there were two men on, that Yadi called for a pitch in a place where he didn’t set up in order to prevent Dunn from getting a location tipoff from the runners?
no
yadi had to pull a ninja act to catch that pitch. he was set up two feet outside and and low – the pitch was over the plate and high, at 97-98 mph.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
You are a wise doctor
and, if it matters, there appears to be a lot more Holliday hating than Loshe loathing these days. What a difference $7 mil a year can make.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
A difference between playing every game or every 5th game.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Keep Holliday at #3
for a while. Let AP be the protector. I think we’ll see Lego improve with RISP.
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
How many innings did AP lead off last night...
at least two…maybe three. Forgive me if I’m not a big fan of Pujols in the cleanup spot. Just because we broke out with two outs in the 1st inning last night does not mean AP batting 4th makes sense…nor does his perfect night at the plate…he has had a few flawless games in the three-spot as well.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
by cardzfanbub on May 18, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it makes that much difference
I’ve seen AP leading off many, many innings while batting 3rd the last several years. The only time he is more likely to lead off the inning batting clean-up is the second inning. Beyond that, it doesn’t matter.
by ArkansasTravs on May 18, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
if AP is leading off the second inning, it means the alternative was his batting with the bases empty and two outs in the first inning. Between those choices, I think it’s pretty clear we’d rather he were leading off the second.
by brackenthebox on May 18, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
how is that so?
he could have been up with a runner on and hit into a double play as well.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
shit could have also batted around
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
You're missing the point.
We broke out in the very first inning the lineup batted after TLR made the genius move of swapping Holliday and Pujols. The skill of the players and luck had NOTHING to do with the 4-run first inning. It was due ONLY to the lineup move made by TLR. This is why he is a future Hall-of-Famer, because he knows how to get the MOST out of his players.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
except he said Albert suggested the lineup move.
which makes your last sentence true.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Perfect Answer...
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
AP knows GOB
and was their oracle
"They're so stunned they didn't even boo!"
John Rooney 5/3/10 referring to Philly fans on Cards 5-run 7th inning
They're called illusions, TomCat.
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on May 18, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
TLR has gone on record numerous times saying that
lineup tinkering has little or no effect, what matters is who he decides to play. It’s not TLR who has the fetish about his lineups, it’s everyone else.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 18, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
He said as much last night.....
He did it for us.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
you're kidding, right?
Tony has a weird sense of humor about his tinkering, so there are plenty of joking quotes claiming the opposite. Why do we have volumes of moves putting guys in front of and behind Albert, just to pick one thing? How about the whole second leadoff man? It’s like saying Henry Ford wasn’t into cars.
The fact is, the reporters asked him point-blank last week if Albert could be moved from the third spot, and he was quoted by pretty much every beat reporter as saying it was a non-starter.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He did it for us Y2S,
Tony likes us, he really likes us.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm not getting in the basket!
aaaahhh!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I'm not kidding
And I dind’t say TLR didn’t do a lot of lineup tinkering — I said that he has said that lineup managment is way, way overrated and a fetish of the media/fans; the thing that makes a real difference is who plays, not where they hit in the lineup.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 18, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
it's not so much that
it’s claiming he doesn’t have a fetish for it.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
having a fetish for making changes does not equal a belief that doing so makes any real difference in run production
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 18, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
that's what you said, so...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it was in the context of an answer to bgh's previous post -
the idea is that TLR would not say that the lineup tinkering was the cause of the 4-run inning (much less genius, or hall-of-fame like, or getting the most out of his players, etc.).
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 18, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
TLR's rationalizations of the different lineups
He has often shifted people to the no. 2 spot in front of Pujols to “jump-start” them. That would seem to me to infer that batting in front of Pujols makes them more likely to hit better. He has also stated that the no. 4 batter “protects” Pujols, giving him more pitches to hit. TLR has also used the pitcher in the no. 8 slot to allow Pujols more opportunities to bat with runners on-base.
All of these different lineup constructions and their justifications seem geared at increasing offensive production to me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
that's the one
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Here is the "devil's advocate" take on this
All of that revolves around Pujols. Putting Pujols 4th and Holliday 3rd also accomplishes A) Jump starting of Holliday because he is batting in front of Pujols not because he is 3rd/2nd/9th and B) Protects Pujols because Rasmus is now behind him. I think what TLR might have been trying to say is that 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. dont make a difference it is the players and in what order they come that does. I think he wouldn’t mind the pitcher batting 1st if it meant that your typical high OBP guys were next.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
fine
having a purported rationale for tinkering with lineup order does not equal an actual belief that making such changes will make any real difference in run production.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 18, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
geniuns schmenius
it was albert’s idea
sometimes i wonder how much of a hand albert has in running that club. any chance he is getting in the way of mac’s philosophy and he is the constant that has kept the offense in it’s frustrating state the last few years? just pondering here
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
now there's a conspiracy theory.
Albert says to swing at pitches outside the zone?
I think it’s just the price of un-learning. It is a lot harder to un-learn than learn. And we had McRae for how long…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
when was mcrae hired?
and i doubt that albert is saying to swing at bad pitches. maybe he preaches patience. maybe (probably) i’m entirely wrong. just trying to figure out constants and albert has huge influence in that clubhouse. tony pretty much lets him do what he wants
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
patience = aggressiveness
all this caffeince has me posting a little too aggressively
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
but if albert was telling everyone what to do
and they were listening to him, shouldn’t we be a better hitting team? albert’s philosophy, whatever it is, has been working pretty well for him so far…
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
True. However, Albert is supremely talented.
And while he might be able to wait on a pitch a little longer (or whatever the issue at hand is) other people may not have the same success. Still, Albert worked with Yadi and that’s worked out. So I’d trust his advice. Have you seen AJ Pujols’ swing?
You can read it in any tone you like.
doesn't mean
that a one size fits all approach is good
what works for albert maybe doesn’t work for colby, etc
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
albert seems smart enough to know this
just putting ideas out there
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Albert helps whomever asks him for help
he turns Yadi into an offensive beast, he helps Jim Edmonds get back in baseball, he helps Ryan Howard with his swing, he helps gators cross the road if they ask him.
it’s silly to put even more on Albert. he’s not Carp, who technically has four days off every week and was rehabbing for years.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'd say his philosophy is rather zen-like at the plate
mixed with some western thought. guess that means he’s a gnostic batter?
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Web Gems...no RFL
Per ESPN main MLB page video…
5. Ross
4. Byrd
3. Andrus (was that an out?)
2. Maybin
1. Buck
Good night for defense.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
RFL should be #1 of course
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, no.
Buck fielding a bunt and throwing while sliding to first beat it.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
with that... Ryan F. Ludwick!
http://yourenotagolfer.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/05/note_of_the_nightstat_of_the_d_7.html
…WICK.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Indeed.
Fun with double situational splits: Ludwick is crushing right-handed pitching at home this year. He’s 21-for-51 (.412) with eight walks and 10 extra base hits for a .500 on-base percentage and a .706 slugging percentage.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Ridiculouswick
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Hasn't he always hit RHP better though?
Has TLR figured this out yet?
by jd is legend on May 18, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
A 2-error game will do that to one's perception.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
And those numbers in Leach's article
didn’t include those errors.
/Leachjinx
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
yeah, i thought the same
his already crappy range has, to my eyes, looked to have DETERIORATED this year. UZR has him at solidly average, though, for what it’s worth. I still don’t think he’s played that well in the field, though [ducks].
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
it's a small sample either way
but he may just be a slow-starter defensively. I’m guessing we can expect slow Aprils from Skip on D, Motte in closing, and Matt in the lineup, just like we expect Albert’s torrid month of Albert. Er, April.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
skip's range
has felt adequate to me this year… He’s obviously not going to routinely take away base hits. FWIW, I think he’s been quicker to the bag on steal attempts and turning the double play, which has really improved his performance in those areas.
he turns the double play superbly IMO
and I think he has done since the middle of last year.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
he looks perfectly average to me
which is pretty amazing
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on May 18, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this, truly.
I think it’ll be a while before we truly grasp how frickin’ amazing his transition to 2B is.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
NCAMFT, but
I just got Sizemore off waivers in a keeper league……heh, suck it SSS.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
wow
i want to be in your league
guessing this isn’t a VEB league?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
One of the Quad Cities posters.
I was #5 in waiver order, so some others either didn’t see it, or passed him up. I dropped Casey Blake to add him.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Redbirds complete record comeback with 10-run eighth
Three dingers in one inning! (Craig, Anderson, Hamilton). Two Craig hits in one inning! Excitement! Adventure!
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD
by The Continental on May 18, 2010 11:19 AM EDT reply actions
Who the hell is Craig?
never heard of him.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A little off topic, but
who was ejected last night? I missed the replays..
You are now blinking manually o.O
oh ok thanks
i looked him up just now and found out that he is david eckstein’s brother… O.O
You are now blinking manually o.O
Yeah
He also was a hitting coach in our system a few years ago.
FWIW he had a beef. That pitch was low if I remember right. But the ump called Freese out on a pitch below the knees also.
Marissa Miller for SS
It was definitely low.
He must have gotten too gritty with his chirping.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
I beleive it was for Memphis
and I didnt know he got a ML job, so when I saw that he was ejected I was more happy for him that he got a new gig than I even paid attention to the ejection itself.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
"They've looked at this situation with their Mine, instead of their Mind!"
Hilarious! Love it.
youneverknow
...
Mina’s Diary, May 17th, 2010
Jonathan took me to game tonight. It was our first night out since his return from Pennsylvania. He seemed to be enjoying the game just fine. Which the Heroic Cardinals won 6-2 over the hated Washington Nationals. When the oddest thing happened during the seventh inning stretch. After we all stood up and sang a lovely round of “take me out to the ball game”, Jonathan used his binoculars to peer into the dug out, and upon spotting renowned Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan he turned white as a ghost! When I asked him what is wrong, he asked me “Do you see who it is?”
“No dear,” I sad. “I don’t know who, who it is?” His answer seemed to shock and thrill me. “It’s the man himself.”
Poor dear was evidently terrified at something, very greatly terrified. I do believe if Motte didn’t just strike out Dunn he would have sunk down. He just kept staring.
“I believe it is the Count. He is much young. My God, if this be so! Oh, my God! My God! If only I knew! If only I knew!”
After that we left the game early. Which is not something to be taken likely. No one should ever leave a Cardinal game early. But with his state of shock, and the wave starting to make more frequent appearances, I decided it best to get him back home.
Evilfrog’s investigation log book, May 18th 2010
I am not sure I buy into Taxy McTaxerson’s theory of tax evasion. But I do not want to bring this to his attention for fear I may lose this valuable resource. Still haven’t managed to make it to the ballpark. I did receive a post from a Y2S noting that Motte and Franklin’s chin seem to start out the same. Could Motte be in on the plot also? I dare say not! But that 97 mph fast ball up in the zone is rebellious to say the least. Alas! What a fun, if not evil intented, team this would be to watch if only for a Holliday RISP hit or a Boog Web Gem!
by Evilfrog on May 18, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
previous chapters of the epistolary
- The initial inquiry by Mssr. bgh
- May 15th 2010, half past eleven
- May 15th 2010, later that afternoon
- An Interlude by Yours Truly, May 16th 2010, evening
- May 17th 2010, mid-morning
- A Mysterious Comment, May 17th 2010, evening
- Postulates Regarding The Mysterious Comment, May 17th 2010, night
- A Complication Arises, May 17th 2010, half till midnight
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
A rec and a merit badge for this.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
This whole thing needs its own LiveJournal.
Or better, a spiral bound notebook with hastily scribbled entries, diagrams, and loose pages stuffed therein.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD
by The Continental on May 18, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
you said the L word.
it’s owned by Russians, now. They’re doing their best to spy on you.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
EvilFrog should probably look into this.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD
by The Continental on May 18, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This whole investigation is a ghoulish business.
I fear at where this path may take you, Evilfrog.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Speaking of webgems
Check out this amazing catch by our own S-Cards Antone DeJesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-fDeGBXDg&feature=player_embedded
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
by tgreenfield on May 18, 2010 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I love his little nonchalant wave at the end.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
VEB: WWGTD
by The Continental on May 18, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
How about the repeated crotch grabs?
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 18, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
you have something against them?
the robot league doesn’t do that. but they do other things…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm at work and youtube is blocked...
is that the home-run robbing catch from last night?
Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on May 18, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw that live last night and it was beautiful.
I wept. Well, I would have, were I not busy finishing a brat with extra mustard. Still, it was spectacular.
Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on May 18, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
The HEIGHT he got was incredible
what an athlete.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't J Ed just go on the D/L
Maybe he needed to head south to do some tutoring.
screencaps
First one, you can see the ball right under the third line of white bricks above the wall.
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3287/cardsspringfielddejesus.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3287/cardsspringfielddejesus.jpg
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 18, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it's possible FESPN will pick this up shortly.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and he makes the national feed.
Sage was excited.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm so glad FESPN
Gave the catch some love. GreatCatch-wick should have been in there too though.
....my quick smells like french toast...
Twitter: @mstreeter06
look how far over the wall his right arm is
his shoulder is basically over the wall when he makes the grab, and then he spins and manages to get his arm clear of the wall before he starts to lose much altitude. Really amazing. If he’d been slower to pull back, he might have broken his arm or dislocated a shoulder (not to mention dropping the ball).
If his arm would have been completely ripped off and dropped behind the wall, but the ball remained in the glove,
would it still be an out?
Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on May 18, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't imagine...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Damn, son.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
FUCK!
FUCK!
That is literally the best catch I have ever seen.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously?
He’ll have to jump over the wall to top that.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
this is just well-crafted stuff.
well done, danup!
"you know how you pitch mike schmidt? Hard fastballs inside, sliders down and away. you know how you pitch henry aaron? willie mays? hard stuff inside, soft away. you know how you pitch willie stargell? hard stuff inside, soft away. you know how you pitch god? hard stuff inside, then down and away, and if you get it there you'll get him out. even though he'll know it's coming. or at least they say he knows." -jim lefebvre
OT ... I did not know it was Will Clark who caused the whole glove-covering thing
http://sfgiants.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/02/a_glimpse_of_fanfest.html
Lots of Zito stuff in there, WRT his unicorn tape.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
who's excited about these pitching matchups?
all coming up…
(I mean if FESPN won’t hype things up, might as well do it ourselves.)
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i'm kinda disappointed
this Lohse-centric has been up for nearly 11 hours – and sill no rambling response from a WCBW alias.
first comment doesn't do it for you?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
considering the first comment is from DanUp
;P
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I always consider those gimmes
commenting to your own post could be part of the post.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Lohse...
will face everyone’s best from herre on due to the quirks of Selig’s scheduling. Personally, from a purely humanistic stand point, the reasoning and assumptions made here I think are inappropriate and troubling……………… The performance of said rotation will deteriorate at an isometric rate as Carp and Wainwright’s past indicate the potential for reduced availability and Garcia is clearly a joke. Penny the enigma will likely have to return to his “fastballing” ways as the sink will not continue sinking forever……………… At this fork in the road Ottavino will be considered but Kyle is emerging as the best candidate for leadership. Mo’s record is fraught with questionable decisions more than anyone here can possibly understand………. The collapse of Greek bonds along with German reluctence and French indecision indicates an economy that rightly supports the kind of contract spell out above. Not that an imbecile like Dan would understand this………. Excessive at bats for relief pitchers are only one symptom……. fact!
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
by guayzimi on May 18, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
If you simply took out every third word
it would be closer to the real thing. And more ellipses. And more digs at lboros.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think that was from when he held up on a pitch
they aired it in slow motion. then they put Gerut in for him.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Wow, so after all the drama with Han Ram last night
the manager sat his ass on the bench. Today, Barden started at SS in place of Hanley. Hanley made himself sound like a complete jackass last night.
Wow, I hadn't heard of that
The replay on the Marlins website is hilarious. I can see TLR picking up the security phone: “GEt me that cop from Philly.”
You know Hanley had three full seasons in the minors
he had OPS of .730, .804, and .720 no wonder it is so maddening to be a GM here is a kid you hope turns into Ozzie Guillen and instead he is Chase Utley
Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot
i can only hope
that he lollygags so much the the marlins want to get rid of him and he can come lollygag for the cards
albert/carp would whip him into shape anyway
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
That would make me happy in pants.
An actual OBP machine in front of Albert?
/drool
But it would cost probably Rasmus, Miller and parts.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
fuck that
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on May 18, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would swap Rasmus and Miller for Hanley
oddly enough, Marlins might just do something like that to save a few $…
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions
They open a new park in a couple of years
and he’s the face of their franchise. I think they’d can their manager before trading Hanley.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
yep.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not giving them Rasmus
I’d give them Miller, Descalso, and a couple other players, but we’re taking on his salary, so giving up low-cost Colby is not a good idea.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i don't think we have a package without colby, though
colby and miller sounds about right, but i don’t think we could afford it.
if you’re the giants, what about cain and posey? not sure what cain’s making now, so maybe the marlins wouldn’t be interested.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
If you're the Giants
it would start with Posey and Bumgarner with the possible addition of another player (Burriss, Gillespie, Noonan) I would imagine. The Marlins aren’t going to want Cain, because he’s got that $15M in 2012 looming AND he’ll be a free agent after that. I would think they’d go with just prospects.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Dunno if i'd want Posey and Bum if I were the Marlins
there’s still a lot of questions unresolved about Bumgarner’s 2009, and I think Posey is only going to be, I dunno, maybe Chris Ianetta as opposed to Brian McCann or Joe Mauer. I think I’d want at least one can’t-miss guy back.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
bumgarner is 20
maybe 21. i would definitely not worry about him yet
and posey keeps putting up ridiculous numbers in the minors. i don’t see how he isn’t a very valuable major leaguer
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on May 19, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
bumgarner dropped about 4mph in velocity last year
until whatever caused that has been resolved, I wouldn’t worry about him necessarily, I’d just be cautious about calling him a can’t-miss guy. As a lefty I’m sure he could get by in the majors with an 89mph fastball, but he’s a far cry from the 94, 95mph guy he was touted as a year or two ago.
I guess Posey could still develop some more power but I don’t see him as more than a 15HR guy with gap power and a very good average. Of course, that’s still very valuable, I know, especially if his game-calling and D is halfway decent (which I’ve heard it is)…
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i think that's a fine valuation
he doesn’t have to be mauer or weiter’s ceiling to be among most valuable catchers in baseball. those numbers would be plenty good as mccann
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on May 19, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
reading the giants site
i guess they aren’t completely sold on his catching yet, but have gotten him a catching coach and it seems this is why he’s still in the minors, to work specifically on catching now rather than at the big-league level. otherwise they could bring him up for his bat and play him at first or left, but then his catching wouldn’t develop and his bat wouldn’t play as well long-term if he wasn’t a catcher.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i don't know
why they don’t bring him up while bengie can mentor him. it’s clear that’s what bengie wants and it would probably be best for him
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
apparently they want him catching every day
rather than once or twice a week, and feel that would be better for his development. and they can’t really catch him more than that in the bigs if he’s not quite ready, because they are in the division race and that’s largely due to their pitching, which the catcher is a big part of – they’re not ready to turn the staff over to him, i guess.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
probably a good point
it’s a tough situation since they are in the pennant race
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I'll argue with you about Posey all day.
He may not be McCann or Mauer, but his upside is definitely Jason Varitek, and that’s a pretty valuable guy. Bumgarner is 20 years old. He has mechanics issues, as painguy pointed out last year, and he’s working through them. He’s still a very talented guy and would be on the list of guys you’d want if you were dealing with SFO.
Posey is a can’t miss guy. I don’t see why people don’t see this.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i hope he lollygags his way out of playing tomorrow and thursday
also, i don’t want him on my team. i don’t care how much “talent” he has, if he doesn’t respect the game.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I have an idea
think he can break the cubs?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
but he's the hot shit on the marlins
i really, really don’t see it being a problem on an albert/carp/la russa team
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
have they ever tried to break one of those guys in?
has the man stew ever come up against it? I’m curious now… if this Cardinals team can really kill anyone with kindness, or whatever.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ponson didn't exactly turn it around with the cards
Master of Typos
by YesWeOquendo on May 18, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn't punch any judges
while he was here though, so he’s got that going for him.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
can we really classify Julian Tavarez in there...
let’s exclude relievers, as it’s a quality of a bullpen guy to be crazy.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Ponson was shit
Hanley is good. I think that has to count too.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions
it seems like much of the Lohse bashing is stemming from looking at traditional stats like ERA and Ws
and not paying attention to things like errors in the field when he pitches (which I admit, should not phase him and he should still be able to get out of those jams, but SSS for Lohse v’10). granted, his xFIP is rather high, but it is still under 5… when you look at his FIP however, it is still quite low this year and is well under 4… also it is better than in ’08 so far, fwiw. his tERA is 3.7, and his LD% is one of the lowest in his career. so I am going to attribute a lot of his problems to bad luck… and a .350 BABIP
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 1:59 PM EDT reply actions
He also has a low LOB%
His HR rate has been lucky for him, too, and his xFIP has a normalized HR rate (and, since “fielding indepedent” is in the stat’s name, I’d imagine it discounts fielding). So, his results ought to improve a little, but I don’t know how much.
I have no idea what Lohse’s record even is? How many “wins” does he have?
I think people’s impression is formed less by stats and more by game outcome. We’ve taken a thumpin’ in quite a few of Lohse’s starts, which makes them memorable.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
tERA is like
fielding dependent FIP. not sure if it normalizes HR rate, though
anybody?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
it takes into account batted ball rates
e.g. LD/GB/FB and plugs these into a formula with the usual FIP things (HR, BB, K). To some extent, because it includes FB rate, it will slightly normalise HR rate, but not to the extent that xFIP does (if I understand it correctly).
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what his biggest problem is?
He’s the worst starter on the team, and he’s the worst by a HUGE MARGIN. Last year we were too concerned with who was making the 5th start each rotation and how bad Todd Wellemeyer was to focus on Lohse’s struggles in the last two months. Now everyone else is pitching really well and he’s stunk on ice, the bullpen isn’t imploding, so he looks like the weak link, and a weak link that’s scheduled to make $23M the next two seasons.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
but
the margin is so largin because everyone else has been unsustainably awesome. not because lohse has been wellsemeyer
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
this
we have FOUR ACES.
why do we have to pick on Lohse for doing what some teams would kill for in a #3 or #4 starter?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm guessing there aren't any teams killing for a #4 starter who makes $32M over this year and the next 2.
Please read all the way to the end, and preferably read the rest of my comments that have been versed around his contract and not Lohse himself. I’m not upset with his performance, I’m upset that we grossly overpaid him for that performance.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
but
you just said that his biggest problem was his performance relative to the rest of the staff. his biggest problem isn’;t his performance. his performance just stands out so much because he is, as you said, the weak link among a staff of 5 pitchers with 4 who are currently in the race for the cy young award
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
exactly. 'e said he *looks* like a weak link.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ha
jaime garcia was 5th in the SI current cy young leaders – of course zito was 4th, iirc, so take it with a grain of salt. the first 3 were ubaldo, roy, and timmy, in that order, and it was mentioned that garcia beat out waino for the 5th spot.
in the AL hughes was the leader. i think garza and price were both in there, and maybe weaver.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
If David Price isn't leading
then the poll isn’t worth a shit, lol.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i don't remember which writer it is
but it’s from his weekly column, so just his opinion – not a poll.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I could not have loved this post more
I don’t believe it would be physically possible. I could try, but I might sprain something.
Gomes
at least Braun backs it up most of the time. Gomes just looks like a thug playing baseball in the witness protection program….
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
thug =/= douchebag
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Braun wears his cap straight
correct? I just want all the facts out there.
Braun
even his last name reminds you of too much cologne
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I misspelled it
It is Jonny Gomes, which is douchey enough.
by Hardcore Legend on May 18, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Braun is pretty dang douchey though
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I would normally say Braun
but after seeing Gomes strut on his HR last night, I’m going darkhorse with Gomes.
by Hardcore Legend on May 18, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The announcer screaming "Oh Jonny! Oh Jonny! Oh Jonny!" sounds like he was having an orgasm
I hope he doesn’t do that every time Gomes hits a homer.
by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Thom Brennaman
Whom I will never, ever forget from the 2001 NLDS when RANDY JOHNSON was facing the Cardinals. RANDY JOHNSON was the most dominating pitcher in the history of the game, a game which had never seen a pitcher like RANDY JOHNSON. albert pujols hitting an 1st inning oppo home run off of RANDY JOHNSON was even more impressive because of how good RANDY JOHNSON was. The cardinals were lucky to get 3 runs off of RANDY JOHNSON.
He was that annoying.
Not afraid to nitpick
it's very hard to dethrone the king of all douches though
please don’t look at his clothing line…
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
so unbelievably douchey
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess he could have his collar popped up though
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The popped collar really would end the debate, though.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
ah i see
the debate is over who is douchier, not whether braun is douchey in the first place. there can be no debating the latter.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
that pissed me off
but it’s not anything any other player doesn’t do. and if he were a cardinal, i would have been fine with it
btw, anybody remember when this guy couldn’t find a job in the off season? i wanted to sign his ass
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
That wasn't that douchey
He admired it a bit, but he got out of the box quickly and ran the bases fast. I’ve seen much douchier.
by vivaelpujols on May 20, 2010 4:40 AM EDT up reply actions
This guy.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
This is too good to be true...
for the Marlins series we miss Josh Johnson, Nolasco and possibly Hanley…
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
but we'll probably get Slur It.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
And he knows how to exact revenge against old teams
Remember the Arizona series in April last year?
by jd is legend on May 18, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Got my prize for winning the twitter contest!
BOOM!
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
I'm not much of a visor guy, or much of a plaid guy for that matter
But I actually kinda like the visor
by jd is legend on May 18, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, I've never been a visor fan, but this is certainly one I'll wear.
I tend to only wear fitted hats….The hat on the left is velcro-adjustable…but it fits very comfortably.
The one on the right is elastic, but it’s got a nice retro-feel to it. Probably gonna turn into my softball hat.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
I (mostly) only wear fitted hats, too
The only adjustable hat I wear with any regularity is this one and it doesn’t really fit too well itself…
by jd is legend on May 18, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The hat on the left: There's a small almost-glossy cardinal on the right side of the bill...
…kinda cool
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
Whoa
My posting at 1:44 is above yours, which was posted at 1:43.
That’s heavy, doc.
Jobu needs a refill
don't stare too hard at the sbn
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
So that whole Motte batting thing last night
I didn’t catch the 8th and 9th inning last night, but I was lucky enough to see Jason Motte bat for himself in the bottom of the 7th with a man on base. As you’d expect, it didn’t go well.
When I checked the box score this morning, I saw that K-Mac pitched the 8th! Why on earth would Motte bat for himself if he’s not even going to pitch to one man in the 8th?
This is pure “Tony being Tony.” He’s thinking, “Let me try to get lucky here and bunt a man over and not have to use a position player. Come on, come on, come on….damn it, rolled a seven.”
Hell, even if you want to sacrifice, send a guy up there who can get it down. Boog, Waino, anyone but the reliever who probably doesn’t do much bunting practice.
Jobu needs a refill
does this type of stuff really surprise anyone any more?
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
true
but I only expect it to get weirder as he gets older and more eccentric
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I would much rather have Tony's eccentricities than Lou's.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
for sure x1000
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
I understand him wanting to bunt (while I disagree with it) and I sort of, maybe understand him not wanting to burn a position player, but why the hell not send Wainwright or Garcia up there to bunt? They at least get some practice at it. Not like he’d be using either of them later in the game.
by jd is legend on May 18, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
He did.
TLR said that he did not want to waste a position player to sacrifice bunt. He then said that since relivers don’t bat very often or bunt very often, that, if he had it to do over again, he would have had a starter pinch hit and sacrifice.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
but don't we lead the league in relievers batting?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Exactly
He acknowledged the mistake, but it’s mistake we’ve been making since April and will probably make again sometime in September. Because Tony La Russa.
Jobu needs a refill
Because Tony La Russa
so say we all
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
can we table this, seriously, because sometimes
Tony does something and we don’t know why at the time, then someone comes along and asks about it. Eventually we may get more information (which may or may not be clarifying anyway.)
We’re not being lazy if we don’t know and if Tony shows an actual sign of a pattern of behavior.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
chill, it was a joke.
And this situation wouldn’t even apply to my earlier comment because this situation was analyzed and TLR admitted that he should have used a starting pitcher (if he was going to call a bunt – I don’t think he should’ve called a bunt, but there you go).
So there’s no “laziness” because it’s not a situation where someone is falling prey to attribution error rather than trying to find out why TLR did something. I’m assuming etiher spants knew this and was joking above (or never got what my point was in the earlier string).
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 18, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Your point is my point is Spants's point is Willie's point
We all know Tony does things because he just does, but we can and should call him on it every time.
Jobu needs a refill
this is pretty maddening
you bring up a good point. if you don’t want to burn a position player, at least send waino up there to bunt. it’s something he actually does occasionally. motte has had two ABs in like the last two years! he doesn’t need to be up there swinging in a non-blowout, non-super bonus baseball game!
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
OT: "So, I Like Coffee" or "My Journey to Have Some Freaking Coffee Today" warning: language
so, i like coffee and i’ve been wanting a coffee pot for a while so that i can have coffee whenever i want! so i loaded up the car and grabbed my wallet and tooted on over to wal mart. i hate walmart, i hate the fucking people at wal mart and most of all i hate the piss poor civil engineering of their parking lot that makes it take 10 god damn minutes to leave the parking lot. but i go. i trek on and i maintain good spirits because soon i will have good, freshly brewed coffee! so, i enter. i’m at wal mart and i need some boxers so i grab some boxers before heading to do what i came for. i have boxers. excellent. now i can journey to the coffee maker aisle. there it is in all it’s majesty. coffee pots of all shapes, sizes and features. i mull each option delicately, insisting on just the right coffee pot for me. i decide on a small, mr coffee coffee pot with a 5 cup coffee pot (when am i ever gonna need 12 cups of coffee?). so, great! i have my coffee pot. now for filters. the filters are conveniently located steps away from the coffee pot. i grab the nearest filters. it seems that any will do. but wait! as i walk back to my cart, wobbly wheel and all, i notice the coffee pot comes with a permanent nylon filter! excellent! cost avoided now and in the future. could it get any better? let’s journey to the coffee aisle
i arrive in the coffee aisle full of wonder. i had never purchased coffee before and was unsure as to what i wanted. i gander the many selections. french roast, rich colombian, dark chocolate. some of them are artificially flavored. “i don’t want any of that shit. i’m no goddamn hipster,” i say to myself. so i steer clear of the artificially flavored varieties. i lay my eyes upon a venezuelan morning brew. the label indicates that it is a gourmet blend. six dollars? for gourmet coffee? how could i go wrong. i snatch up the coffee, make my way to the register and purchase my goods. i drive home and imagine just how great it will be to not only taste this great coffee, but to cure the grogginess which has plagued me all day and made this very trek one which was difficult to motivate myself to partake in.
i arrive at home. i gather my purchases and carry them inside. there’s the coffee pot. i rip the box open like a child on christmas morning, carefully inspecting all the components. i read the instructions as this is my first time making coffee and i know not what ratios of water to coffee i should use. once deciphering what the fuck a decanter is, i have washed the pot and am officially brewing my first pot. the cherry is popped! it begins to sputter a delightful black liquid into the decanter. half impatient and half curious, i decided to fill the rest of the brewing time by reading about the gourmet coffee i had just purchased. i scan over all the amazing details about this coffee and its cultivation in south america. i flip it back to the front after having read the backside. wait. what. wat! everything just changed. this whole journey, all my dreams and aspirations, nullified by a simple character string consisting of five letters. “d-e-c-a-f.” and now i must travel yet again. to the store. because i am a goddamn moron
tl;dr: someone punch me in the face
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on May 18, 2010 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
funny!
as an ex-coffee junkie, I can totally relate. I recommend Columbian, but I’m not really an expert.
youneverknow
If you like the good shit
You shoulda gone with a French Press for <5 cups. Slightly more work but it’s noticeably better if not all that big of a difference.
Not afraid to nitpick
While I certainly don't recommend someone dropping
$100 + on a coffee maker, I got this little gem as a reward from work. Makes a great cup of joe, and as it’s perfect for the one cup of coffee as I’m walking out the door. The single cups are a bit spendy, but they have a reusable filter that allows you to use your own cofee, which for me, nothing beats a fresh ground Kona.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Agreed
I get my Kona from the K.C. Roasterie, and I’ve always been really impressed with it.
They have other good coffee’s as well.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
A French Press is awesome.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You may consider this "hipsterish"
But those of us who grind our own coffee beans never have this problem. ;-)
And if you’re really interested in good tasting coffee, find a good roaster near your house and buy the beans direct from them. As a general rule, you won’t spend more than a couple bucks more than you do on the stuff at Wal-Mart and it tastes a ton better. It’s probably also fair trade, which means you’re supporting a 3rd world economy and not some guerrilla’s using coffee to smuggle cocaine into the country. Just sayin….
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
the hipster thing was a joke
i didn’t know what i was looking for, so i narrowed my selection in arbitrary ways
this time i got “costa rica tarrazu”
we’ll see how it goes
how does one go about grinding coffee though? i guess there a special contraption for doing so?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I have to second this question
I know there are cheap spice grinders out there, but I haven’t had time to locate one.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i.e. the ones I've seen are overpriced.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Or go oldschool.
This is exactly like one my dad found and restored. He has it hanging in the kitchen.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
growing up on the farm we used one like that to grind flour for bread
did a pretty good job, although a bit labor intensive
Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot
I know! there were so many of those things lying around my grandfather's place
helpful farm implements I never knew I needed in the ’burbs. damn.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
The tough thing,
is finding one that the glass isn’t broke on.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
a mason jar fit on top of ours
Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot
You can get a good coffee grinder for about $15.
I have a nice Cuisinart one that we got as a wedding gift, and I like it — it’s on Amazon for a little over $30.
The nice thing about mine is that I have coffee 2-3 times a day (morning, after lunch, and evening) and I can grind all the beans in the morning and keep the coffee fresh in the grinding container for the other two cups I usually have, then clean it once and get it ready for the next day. The cheaper ones don’t have the sealing grind cup.
I’ve also known people to do this in a food processor if you have one, just beware that the oils in the coffee beans can be hard on the blades…
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
You can get a good coffee grinder for about $15.
I have a nice Cuisinart one that we got as a wedding gift, and I like it — it’s on Amazon for a little over $30.
The nice thing about mine is that I have coffee 2-3 times a day (morning, after lunch, and evening) and I can grind all the beans in the morning and keep the coffee fresh in the grinding container for the other two cups I usually have, then clean it once and get it ready for the next day. The cheaper ones don’t have the sealing grind cup.
I’ve also known people to do this in a food processor if you have one, just beware that the oils in the coffee beans can be hard on the blades…
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
you can say that again
Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot
if it turns out
that i start drinking coffee a bit more (currently probably about 3 cups a week), i will probably look into finding some good beans and getting a grinder
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Oh
and the French Press idea that joker had is a really good one. You can take those things with you everywhere.
I used to fill mine up with hot water from the gas station and then add some ground coffee from a can from my work truck.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
not entirely sure what a french press is
i thought those were for making espresso
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Nah
You basically mix ground coffee in with the water stir it all together, let it sit for a bit and press down this metal screen thing to filter it out. All the oils and whatnot in the coffee get activated or something, I don’t know the science, but it’s better.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mr.-Coffee-French-Coffee-Press-5-Piece-Indulgence-Kit/12080196
Not afraid to nitpick
The oils aren't filtered out by a paper filter or a super-fine mesh cone filter.
The grind for French presses are coarser, so the filter doesn’t snag all the oils.
You can read it in any tone you like.
also known as a cafetiere
it’s a little glass or metal jug with a spout and a lid. You put in a couple of big spoons of coffee, pour on hot water and press a solid gauze down using a plunger on the lid. Squishes the coffee. It’s not as good as a proper espresso machine with some pressure in it, so you won’t get all the best aromatic oils out of your ground coffee, but it does a pretty good job and you’ll get a decent cup. Plus, it’s totally easy to do and you can take it to work or whatever.
Bodum make good ones. I’ve got one a bit like this:
don’t buy a cheap shitty one because the glass is usually thin and breaks after a few goes, if you’re unlucky. The Bodum ones last a long time and are dishwasher safe, I think.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I had a Bodum one similar to that
I should just order that one right now, lol.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i just use a single cup filter
something like this.
Key is in the beans and the grind. Just add coffee. Put on a kettle of hot water, once it starts screaming pour hotwater onto coffee. Let it go.
it's not fantastic or anything
but i really need my caffeine and i got to the point where anything more than like one soda made me sick to my stomach, so i needed something else.
acquired taste and whatnot
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
and you can't really drink iced tea first thing in the morning
so coffee it was
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
have you tried japanese matcha tea?
it’s the total shit. Haven’t had any in my house for a while now but really need more. They use very high quality dried tea leaves, crushed to a powder. You literally drink the whole leaf, so it’s really invigorating (you get more of the caffeine in the leaves and the other good stuff that way). Great first-thing-in-the-morning drink if you like tea. You literally only need a tip of a teaspoon-worth, so it goes a long way too.
http://www.chah.co.uk/matcha-green-tea-powder-326-p.asp
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 18, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
i've never really had any tea
that wasn’t your typical southern american style iced tea
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I drink iced tea first thing in the morning
by jd is legend on May 18, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not much for coffee (something about drinks above room temperature bugs me)
so I go for energy drinks….or if I want to avoid the sugar, then I stop pussyfooting around and go straight for the fucking No-Doz.
that was my main complaint with coffee
i just started drinking it this semester when i decided i couldn’t do soda anymore like i used to. it grows on you, though
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
You start out with a latte or something
Then you move to heavy cream/sugar coffee, then you run out of sugar or cream so you go with only one of them, then you drink it black and love it.
Not afraid to nitpick
You know what they say,
once you go black, you never go back. I’ve been drinking black coffee since I was 15. If I ever add something to my coffee, it’s Irish Cream and a bit of Jameson. But that’s just me.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
i started out with
the starbucks iced coffee and iced espressos. those are hell of expensive, so i moved to coffee. i think i used sugar the first time and since, i’m just a little bit of half n half kinda guy
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
so,
the costa rican coffee is good. i made i pretty strong the first time, but still damn good. also, apparently the makers of this coffee cup say that 1 cup = 5 ounces (wtf?) so, 5 “cups” is right around enough to fill this here coffee cup twice. perfect unless i ever need to share
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
My mom's neighbor is from Costa Rica
and she usually brings me back some coffee when she visits home. It’s very, very good.
At work, one of my bosses bought some Ethipoian coffee and it is awesome.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I don't know.
I didn’t read the label. But I think that stuff is too expensive to be used at our office.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i guess it was you
when i saw the coffee, i thought of a VEB post about someone who got coffee from costa rica saying it was really good
so, thanks for the inadvertent rec
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
rec'd
most of all i hate the piss poor civil engineering of their parking lot that makes it take 10 god damn minutes to leave the parking lot.
amazing how every Wal*Mart parking lot in the entire united states is exactly the same.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
It's like trying to get out of a casino in Vegas.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Going to the game tonight
Was wondering if anyone knew where the Cards website listed what you can and can not bring to the park
You mean in terms of food/drink?
No alcohol, no glass, beverage containers have to still be sealed (although I’ve never seen them check our water bottles, which we refill). Other than that I think you’re pretty free. I don’t have a link to the mothership page describing those rules, but I’m pretty sure that’s right.
by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I just found it. Wanted to bring some soda so I don't go broke to quick
by LandSickness on May 18, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, those prices are kind of crazy
(Not that I think they’re particularly bad here – just bad everywhere.) The missus and I always bring a couple bottles of water and/or soda, and usually a big bag of chips. And we sometimes bring some bourbon in a flask, which is allowed as long as they don’t know you’re doing it….
by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If you take your bourbon in a cola bottle
nobody will ever say shit to you AND you’ll have more bourbon. If you haven’t figured out how to pop the cap off a plastic soda bottle without disturbing the seal, then you’re not a good enough drunk. :-)
/alcoholic lesson of the day.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Wow - that would be a LOT of bourbon
I could be the most popular guy in my section
by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Or missile-like objects...
ladies, that means no bedroom toys.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
annnnnd AFLAC for you
Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot
...aflac?
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
No need to flag it.
Uncalled for, man.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
Oh I am not going to waste my first flag on that one
Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot
...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
which one of those is dirty harry
or Brendan Fraser
Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot
F'in Votto
“Oh Jonny! Oh Jonny! Oh Jonny! just struck out.”
by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2010 3:25 PM EDT reply actions
So we'll go into tonight's game tied with Cincy if Hoffman can hold a two run 9th inning lead
In other words, we’re going to go into tonight’s game behind Cincy by a game.
by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2010 3:32 PM EDT reply actions
Is it too early
to keep tabs on the Reds score and hope they’re losing?
I feel like it is, yet I’ve found myself checking their score every 10 minutes the past 2 days…
Gamethreads suck.
Just tell yourself it's because of a deep dislike of the team...
not fear.
Tis better to lose bunting, than win with dingers alone...
That Hanley Ramirez is such a bum...
I hope they suspend him for a couple of games.
Tis better to lose bunting, than win with dingers alone...
Ottavino loses perfect-game bid in 7th on a 2-out solo homer
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
That burns.
Lose the perfect game, no-hitter, and shutout with one swing.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Greene had an error in the 4th
so it was only a minimum faced no hitter (next batter after the error hit into a DP), but stil sucks for him. He was pulled after 7 at 97 pitches. Craig had an outfield assist throwing someone out at second who tried to stretch a single to left into a double. Green had a horrid game, with the error and got both caught stealing and picked off first. Anderson was the DH and drove in 2 with a 2 run shot while the almighty Marti was on base.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Tyler... Tyler, why.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Fuuuuuuck, Hoffman Blown Save.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
Scotty Ro.
Pinch Hit 2-run shot to tie it.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
He's Izzy circa 2008
And last year was his Izzy circa 2007 swan song.
by olddomination on May 18, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
kinda scared to say anything
but he keeps barely squeaking out those saves
he’s probably the best righty in the pen. contract not looking too bad so far
in before smiting of GOBs
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Blown save AND a loss!
Cincy up 1 game.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
13.15 ERA
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
is he hurt, or is he just bad?
i mean, he had a sub-2.00 ERA last year and almost 40 saves. today he gives up 3 runs without recording an out. do players just deteriorate that quickly? i know he’s old, but so is jamie moyer…right?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
do players just deteriorate that quickly?
“That’s why they call it falling off a cliff, my dear” – Mo Vaughn
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 18, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
his "fastball" velocity is the same as last year
I guess it’s a combo of losing a bit of control, losing a bit of bite on the change (though, again, the velo is the same), and a lot of horrible luck (maybe had some GOOD luck last year too).
I wouldn’t write him off just yet but even I have to admit, the guy is looking D-U-N…
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
The Hoff is unlikely to recover from that Stav-infection
Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot
Maybe he really wants to get to 600 saves
(and maybe Milwaukee’s willing to cut him some breaks for that) but damn he sucks.
by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Cannot be unseen...
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
by vexedtechie on May 18, 2010 4:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
lol
ill never be able to see anything else, just like i can’t see anything but the arrow in this one:
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
Older than poop.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
G
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
Saw that online a couple weeks ago.
Was seriously impressed.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
you know what's funny
fedex express
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
See helmet...
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
I am sad for humanity.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i never avoided it, it just never happened for me
like the 40 YO virgin.
and now i’ve waited too long and its like a game to see if i can actually continue my life without having ever seen this epic film.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
it's three films
i was kind of like that for a while. i saw it for the first time a few years ago. it’s good. i see no reason to not watch it. the 40-year-old virgin is definitely not comparable
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
no i meant
i am like the 40 year old virgin in that seeing star wars just never happened for me.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
the trouble is
you have to find the originals
before Lucas messed with them. with no re-release crap stuck in there, I don’t care if Jabba was supposed to meet them or if Coruscant looked really cool.
go all 70s. or you will wish you could take your life back.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I dont find the rereleases too bad
but HAN SHOT FIRST, no clue why that scene was changed
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Happy Carp Day!
Lineups:
lopez
lud
holliday
pujols
freese
raz
molina
skip
carp
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I like it.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
I'm sick of Albert in cleanup....
Wish he’d move him to the 3 spot for once.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on May 18, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this lineup is serious!
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
I wish Colby was comfortable at lead-off
It seems like the Cardinals are handicapping themselves by not having a consistent lead-off hitter. Unfortunately, I think its probably smarter to keep Colby where he is until Holliday gets his stuff figured out. Once spots 2-4 (Ludwick, Pujols, Holliday and Freese) are all clicking at the same time then I think Colby should be moved to lead-off.
by Cardfanintherock on May 18, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
colby is awful streaky
i think skip and floppy are both better options. plus the fact that colby should be driving in runs with his power bat and such
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I like colby 5th/6th for several reasons
his power and ability to drive in runs is one, but his speed and possible steal ability are not going to be used much in front of AP but would be great with people like Molina behind him.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
yeah
just need him to actually be good at stealing bases now
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
We could have Yadi give him lessons,
since Yadi now leads the Cardinals in SB.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Colby is only 1 behind him
I just think he needs to try more often, his 4 steals and 4 CS this year but I think a couple of those CS were not his fault.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I think if you give Lopez a few games to get back into the flow of baseball.
He will be the leadoff guy we desperately want.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
So, uh, how long
is TLR gonna sit Ryan?
I hate giving up the defense – but OTOH we won the game last night. Heh.
lopez, freese, skip, carp, and rasmus in the same lineup.
yummy.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
HanRam apparently had more stupid stuff to say today.
He trashed his teammates: "’We got a lot of people dogging it after ground balls,’ he said. ‘They don’t apologize.’"
Then he threw out the old stand-by trope about managers with no MLB experience: “‘He doesn’t understand that. He never played in the big leagues.’”
by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2010 5:16 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, from what I've read he's got his manager and multiple teammates publicly saying
that he owes the team an apology, and he hasn’t shown the slightest inclination to do so. Granted it’s still very early after the incident and he could maybe patch things up pretty easily if he decides to, but it seems like it could get ugly.
Or maybe he won’t apologize and the whole thing will just turn out to have been overblown….
by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe he'll be traded to the Cardinals for Pujols...
[ducks]
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
they share a spring training facility
why didn’t they just ask Carp to luggage him?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Holy Molting Mottes
What a fantastic post.
by infallibleopiniongenerator on May 18, 2010 5:17 PM EDT reply actions
I was at last nights game, it worked out well, except for the light mist
Going to tonights game as well, heres hoping for the best!
'Oh, no he didn't!'
OT
playing MVP 05 today i discovered that joe thurston’s baserunning “skills” were well known, even back then:
Baserunning Ability: 0
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
My husband just picked up MVP 05 for me the other day.
I guess we’d sold it at some point, but he got it for $2. What team is Thurston with?
You can read it in any tone you like.
oh, "is"
i believe he is playing for atlanta’s AAA affiliate
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Red Sox?
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Any players you're particularly attached to vs indifferent towards?
Attached to:
Waino
Pujols
Yadi
Motte
Schu
Colby
Indifferent toward:
Lohse
Holliday
Stav
Freese
Miller
You guys????
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck
sure
attached to (roughly in order):
waino
colby
motte
yadi
jaime
holliday
indifferent to:
the rest of the relievers
penny
the bench
everyone else falls somewhere in the middle. not really among my favorite players, but not “indifferent”
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I'm attached to all who don the birds on the bat...
with the exception of Bob Horner. I just didn’t like him.
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
mostly the same, except
attached to freese, indifferent to motte.
also, attached to boog and JAIME
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
is this one of those chain letters?
wait… you kids don’t know what a chain letter is.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
is it like a chain email?
am i going to have bad luck for 7 years if i don’t post this on 10 blogs in the next hour?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
there was paper and stamps involved.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
What's a stamp?
I remember reading about the Stamp Act. I think Jon Jay was involved somehow.
Tis better to lose bunting than win with dingers alone...
I’m attached to Pujols, the whole starting pitching staff, Motte, Yadi of course, Lopex, Luddy, Miller, Freese, Boog
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
oh yeah
I like Boggs too
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I may be indifferent toward
Boggs, Lopez. Eh, throw in Penny, though I enjoy his high socks.
Attached to everybody else.
I was indifferent to Matt, then he attempted this facial hair and I was suddenly forced to look at his cranium in a different way.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Zambrano back to the rotation
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5199380
What does BCB have to say?
I hope Al enjoys his crow.
I wonder how he’ll spin this?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
"Well, it might've worked!"
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
So he was sent to the pen to get his shit together,
he sucked in the pen (6.23 ERA, 1.96 WHIP, .919 OPS against), and that means he’s ready to come back to the rotation? That’s an interesting take by Lou.
by BTown Birds fan on May 18, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Willie Harris is not having a good time
- B.J. Rains BJRains Six Nationals are in a circle playing ‘flip’ while the Cardinals take batting practice…looks like little league. about 1 hour ago via web
- BJRains Willie Harris just lost on a bad flip and slammed his glove down in anger. It’s been a rough last two days for him in St. Louis. about 1 hour ago via web
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Goold... Goold...
quoting Kennedy:
And we don’t really give a (licorice stick) about that.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
moar Skip angst
MatthewHLeach Schumaker on the frustration of having the ball get stuck in his glove last night: “It was horrible. Especially against my friend AK.” 14 minutes ago via web
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
oh god. Stavinoha has taken to the whole "Dr. Thunder" thing.
Joe Mather feels a t-shirt coming on.
Stav giving Joey a hard time is hilarious. “He sells me out to the media…”
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
more on Dr. Thunder
and the Baby Bench aka the former mafia o’ Memphis in the 10@10.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 19, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Leach's notes, too
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 19, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
don't know if this is just poorly worded:
“Stavinoha has become one of the league’s most successful pinch hitters. He has two pinch-hit home runs this season — the most of anyone in the majors with at least eight pinch-hit at-bats…”
could there be someone with fewer than 8 pinch-hit at-bats but more pinch-hit homers?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
CARP LUGGAGE MONTAGE
that was awesome. I hope you didn’t miss that.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I see something that may get people excited
but I’m not sure I saw it. will to keep posted…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i'm shocked and amazed
so I will see.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
cardball
i just snatched up your boy john ely
i’m gonna have some nice trade bait once strasburg is called up in a week and a half
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I'm wondering if Chapman will be up soon
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Chapman needs some time in the minors.
He’s been hit or miss with control issues.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
yeah, he's pretty new
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm doing pretty dang well in VEL
but not so good in the corporate league
baseball enthusiast
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 18, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
i had a rough start
with vazquez being terrible and prince being slow, but i should pull up to .500 by the end of this next matchup
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
can any of you guys use
the live scoring? I just get a page, with no info…just the week numbers above. The interface is awful.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
not sure what you mean
when you’re looking at your team, you can change the time period for the stats. i look at 2010 season and last week most often
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
It's like it's blocked.
but I have an ad block exception for the page.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
did Monk just trick everyone into posting here this morning, or am I getting sbn'd?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
My two weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency!
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 19, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
but you only know about two
because the third is a surprise.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
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