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2010 Draft Preview Episode 8: Persons of Interest no. 2

I'm in an awful hurry this morning, so I hope you'll forgive the condensed nature of the post and scouting reports I am about to offer you. 

First, though, I would just like to rant a bit about last night's game. I haven't looked in the game thread, and probably won't, honestly, so it's probably been covered, but still: why can't this team fucking hit?! Brett Meyers. Really, guys? Brett Meyers. 

Meyers threw 30+ pitches in the first inning last night, yet somehow still managed to last 6 innings and throw only 103 pitches total. The offense looked so good in that first frame, and I actually dared to think they might finally be coming out of this inexplicable tailspin we've seen them in for the, well, come to think of it, for most of the season. Then suddenly after Meyers escaped from the jam, they all just went right back to sleep again. It's more than just disappointing, or frustrating; it's embarrassing. Now the Cards are facing down Small Wander and his Curveball of Doom and Cy Norris; I don't even want to consider it, but there's a very real chance they could get swept by this Houston club. And that would be well beyond embarrassing. 

Some quick hits on some interesting players after the jump. 

Star-divide

Christian Yelich, 1B, Westlake High School (California) 

Yelich is a tall, lanky first baseman with a sweet left-handed swing that projects for both excellent average and power down the road. There's a ton of projection left with Yelich at this point, as he's already 6'4" but only weighs in the 180-190 lb. range. He moves very well for a guy who plays first, and there is some thought he could move over to third base or out to left field as a pro. He has just enough arm to play third and certainly looks the part of an outfielder, but even staying at first his bat is plenty good to get him drafted fairly early. 

He's committed to Miami, which could make him a tougher sign, but my personal feeling is that some team will pop him in round two or three and go over slot to bring him into pro ball. 

Dominic Ficociello, 3B, Fullerton High School (California)

Another high school infielder with tons of projection, Ficociello is a switch-hitting third baseman with a big-time arm. His arm strength rates as plus or even plus-plus already; think Scott Rolen territory. The rest of his defensive package, unfortunately, doesn't quite match up with Rolen's, at least not yet, but there's no reason to believe he won't stick at third. There had been some talk of him ending up in right field down the line somewhere, as his arm would fit perfectly, but he probably doesn't move well enough to cover the ground in the outfield. 

Ficociello can hit from both sides of the plate, with much better power from the left side. He shows a pretty good idea of the strike zone already for a high-schooler, and has excellent hands. He's athletic, but doesn't really have great wheels, and could slow down even more as he fills out. He's committed to Arkansas, but appears (and I stress appears; it's impossible to really know these things), to be an easier sign than either Alvord or Yelich, particularly if taken in an earlier round. 

Asher Wojciechowski, RHP, The Citadel

A big, strong righty with a power repertoire, Wojciechowski (boy, I'm not looking forward to having to type that very often), wasn't really on a whole lot of draft radars coming into this season. With a strong spring, though, he's moving up into consideration for as high as a supplemental first round pick. He also looks to be a fairly easy sign, making him a good fit for any of several teams with extra picks in the first couple rounds who may need to save a bit on at least one or two of their selections. 

Wojci- Asher throws a fastball in the low 90s, popping 94 fairly regularly, and has a strong slider as well. He doesn't have much of a third pitch and would need to develop one if he is to be a starter as a pro. He certainly has the sort of frame that projects as a starter at 6'4" and 225, but he's also a good candidate for relief work as a professional. In that role he could go strictly with his strengths and add a tick or two to his fastball. Throwing just fastball/slider I could see him moving quickly through a system and making it to the big leagues as a setup man or closer down the road. He has decent command, enough for setup work now, but would need to sharpen it in order to be considered for a closer's spot somewhere. He reminds me a bit of Mitchell Boggs, but with probably just a tick better control. 

Drew Cisco, RHP, Wando High School (South Carolina)

When you think of drafting a pitcher out of high school, the image that comes to mind is usually something much like what the Cardinals got last year in Shelby Miller. Blazing stuff, iffy command, tons of strikeouts; for better or worse, the mental picture is always vaguely Nuke Laloosh-ish. Cisco is nothing at all like that. 

Cisco is an average stuff, pitchability sort of righthander, with a fastball in the 88-92 range and a solid curveball and changeup. He has outstanding control and decent command already, and gets outstanding results in spite of his pedestrian raw stuff. He mixes his pitches, changes speeds, keeps hitters off balance...hmm, can you think of any other cliches I've left out? Bottom line: he isn't going to wow you with his stuff, and he's probably already close to being maxed out physically, so what you see is what you get. Fortunately, what you get is pretty good. He has those athletic bloodlines teams seem to be so enamoured of as well, as several members of his family have played baseball at the professional level. 

I think Ian Kennedy is a good comp for Cisco, though Kennedy wasn't quite as polished coming out of high school as what Cisco already is. 

Seth Blair, RHP, Arizona State

Blair is a lot like Joe Kelly, who the Cardinals selected in the third round last year, in that he's a lanky slinger who can get the ball up to the plate in one godalmighty big hurry. Blair's fastball has been clocked as high as 98 at times, though he typically sits more in the 90-94 range in his starts. He also has a big curveball that can be a plus for him at times, though he often throws it too hard and it turns into a big slurve. There are plenty of reports of him featuring a changeup that is occasionally effective as well, but I haven't seen one in the limited video I've seen of him. Still, when in doubt, trust the pros, so he has a changeup that will occasionally show good tumbling action but is wildly inconsistent. 

Also a lot like Joe Kelly, the main thing holding Blair back at this point is his command. (Or lack thereof.) His fastball is electric, but he has trouble putting it where he means to even when he throws strikes. His release point comes and goes as well, making his entire repertoire an adventure. His arm action is long and slingy, and there is concern it will need to be tightened up is he is ever going to harness his stuff more effectively. (Again, think Joe Kelly.) 

I like Blair, a lot. His stuff is remarkable, and he could represent the same sort of challenge the Cards took with Kelly last year. There was plenty of talk at the time of that pick that Kelly would stay in the bullpen and move quickly through the Cards' system (I was one of that chorus), but the Cardinals moved him into a starting role and are attempting to develop his power arm in the rotation. Blair could present a similar project, though he has the benefit of already being a starter in college to offer a leg up. He has the same electric arm and need for refinement, and I would be very excited to see him in the system. 

That's all I've got time for, folks. Take care, and I'll have a game thread up around 6:30 or so. 

The Baron's Playlist for the 12th of May, 2010

"Bloodstream" - Evangelicals (Also, I need someone to tell me I'm not crazy and the melody to this does sound a little like "Holiday Road.") 

"I Know I'll See You" - A Place to Bury Strangers (MooCow, you'll like this one.) 

"Ohio!" - Boxer the Horse

"S.A.L.T." - The Orb

"The Fastest Man Alive" - Sound Team

"Can't Explain" - Love

"Tyler" - The Toadies

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Further bad news

The Reds are already destroying the Pirates. They could tie us for first in a matter of days unless the offense comes around.

by cloistermaximus on May 12, 2010 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

basically yeah

I think most fans realize the Cards are a pretty good lock to win the division. Maybe the players feel the same way. Maybe it’s best not to coast the whole way is all.

by mattyp on May 12, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't hate the game last night.

Frustrating loss, sure. I certainly felt bad for Boog.

But this crap happens all the time in baseball. Someday soon, the starting pitching will have a rough couple weeks and we’ll all console ourselves that at least the bats have turned it around.

This might sound crazy, but I was actually encouraged by Boog’s second at-bat. On the first pitch, he took the best swing I’ve seen him take all season: great rip, fouled it back, and finished his swing balanced and with the exact same footing he started it in. That’s been rare; seems like he’s always falling all over the plate even when he takes a pitch.

Of course, an ugly strikeout in his first at-bat and two errors (one forgivable, one seemingly the result of overconfidence) left him looking bad. But I’ve still got faith Boog can turn it around.

Side note: my dislike of Dan McLaughlin as an announcer grows. Homerism can be fun when it’s in the right hands (Shannon, Santo, for instance) but with Dan it makes him sound amateurish and petty.

by arch support on May 12, 2010 1:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I think Dan was trying to cover for Al's off-the-charts grumpiness.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the 2000 season

the Reds were in first place as late as June 5. While the Reds have potential as a wild card, there is no way they will occupy first place at all except for the briefest of time this season.

This team will begin to hit, and things will start to come together. Maybe it’s the weather — like last season, the Midwest winter doesn’t seem to want to let go.

by Michael_68_1999 on May 12, 2010 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

If I may quibble.

Mid-70s is not representative of a Midwest winter. Midwest winters feature wind-chills well below freezing and snow. In fact, I’d say that April 2010 has been much warmer than April normally is in Des Moines (which leads me to believe, given location and weather patterns, that it has in St. Louis, too).

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

judging by last year and so far this year, we just blow in May

“May is the cruelest month,” T.S. Eliot once wrote, until that assclown Ezra Pound amended it

by mattyp on May 12, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mentioned that last night.

I really hope this May doesn’t resemble last year.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 12, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cueto has yet to take his yearly vaycay on the DL

Though I think Votto is for real, but that’s no real surprise.

The Reds just don’t have the talent to overcome slumps at the moment.

We’ve seen Pujols/Holliday slump and we’ve still won a lot of games. Can you imagine the Reds offense with a slumping Votto/Rolen? Not pretty.

Harang is a horse, though, like a less effective Wainwright…

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not so fast my friend....

Yes, the Cardinal offense (tied with the Reds by wOBA, actually) should begin to hit a little better. Agreed. But our pitching to this point is leading the world, and while we have a very good staff, we can’t expect them to have an FIP of 3.42 and an ERA of 2.66 all season long either. And that’s without mentioning the proverbial injury bug……..

Also, the Reds have the ability to pitch much better than they have so far this season. Their best pitcher so far has been Mike Leake, the rookie, and Cueto, Harang, and Bailey have all started slow, and their bullpen that was a strength last year has looked shaky so far. Their staff is sporting a 4.99 ERA but a 4.26 FIP, so they’ll likely get better, which should help the Reds win a few more games. Currently all their starters have FIP’s lower than their ERA’s, so I would expect their pitching to get better and they also have Chapman and Volquez coming back for the stretch run. If they can move Yonder Alonso for some LF help and one of Dickerson or Stubbs can perform in CF, there’s no doubt in my mind that they can win the division if the Cardinals don’t wake up…

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kyle Lohse is starting tonight?

Happy birthday to me. At least it’s against the Astros.

by jd is legend on May 12, 2010 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Read 10@10 and you'll feel more optimistic.

During my trip to Busch, he pitched and I was really bummed out heading into the game, but he pitched very well, striking out seven batters (two of which were Homer Bailey, as DanUp noted), but, was very good. Hopefully, you’ll witness a similar performance.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only time I've ever been to Busch, he was pitching

It was ugly. He gave up a HR to Tim F. Hudson. There was also a Ryan Franklin FAIL. Oh well, just enjoyed being there.

by jd is legend on May 12, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was a very good hitter at Auburn, but I doubt better than Frank

Not sure if there’s anywhere to dig up old college baseball stats. I’ll check the media guide (if I can) and get back to you.

by jd is legend on May 12, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really true, but close

In 1997, Hudson put up a 396/43/670 line in 273 at bats

Thomas was an all-american first baseman and surpassed this every year he was at Auburn: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/Frank-Thomas.shtml

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

if we had hudson

the rotation would be set up so he never faced off against a lefty pitcher from another team – that way he’d be available to platoon in center with colby.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Cardinals have scored 144 runs and allowed 107...

The Reds have scored 158 and allowed 169.
They are 4-0 in extra inning games.
They’ve won by 5+ twice out of 33 games. TWICE! And they are 2-7 in games decided by 5+

The Cards on the other hand are 8-1 in 5+ games and 0-2 in extras.

I’m not in the least bit concerned about the Reds…

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 1:47 PM EDT reply actions  

that's the problem, though

we need someone to be good in the division, so we can’t sleepwalk.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go look at the players the Reds have on offense

Now look at the Cardinals. How in the hell is that team scoring more runs than we are?

Their pitching has been bad, but will get better, and they don’t have a leadoff hitter either, so they’d probably score MORE runs if Dickerson or Stubbs could find a way to reach first base occasionally.

With Chapman coming up soon and Volquez back around August, I am a bit worried about the Reds, because they have the ability to pitch a lot better than they have so far. Thank God for Dusty Baker….

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Change Reds to Cardinals, and pitch to hit,

and everything you’ve said goes as well.

Not that I’m saying that there’s no chance whatsoever that the Reds are a threat…I’m just saying that it’s at least as likely that the Cards’ bats pick up as it is that the Reds’ pitching gets better. And while our starters almost certainly (I like to leave room for the insane outcomes, what can I say) won’t last the whole season at this level, they also likely won’t drop off into oblivion, either.

"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols

by splhcb67 on May 12, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

considering that ramirez and lee aren't doing squat

the cubs could come around. their starting pitching has been fine, but they’d need some bullpen help. the only righty in the pen with an era under 6 is marmol, and other than he and big z, they’ve all walked more batters than they’ve struck out. marmol, btw, is averaging 18.4K/9.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

You think Carlos Silva is keeping this up though?

I sure don’t. The only starters they can really count on are Lilly and Dempster, and even Lilly is a little shaky at this point with the injuries.

I think Aramis might be about done. I watched them a couple of times last week and his bat just looks slow.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

silva won't keep it up

but big z, lilly, dempster, and wells are all solid starters. haven’t seen gorzellany this year, if he’s the fifth.

ramirez still has a shoulder issue, and that may never go away. i think his option is a player one, so i see no way he declines to exercise that next year if he is truly done.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, Z is in the bullpen

and I’m just not a big believer in Wells although his peripherals have been pretty good for about a full half season now. He just doesn’t look the part…

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

i just can't imagine z won't be replacing silva in the rotation soon

i’m a biased fan of wells from legion ball – plus he’s a cards fan.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember the same discussion last year.

After a great start to the season(2009), the Cardinals stopped hitting. (Well stopped hitting is not quite accurate, but at least didn’t look like a team that expected to win the division title.) At the time it was blamed on LF and the usual CF and the hitting coach. So we have a new LF and CF and the results are pretty similar to last year. We also have a new hitting coach.

This year Shu and Boog are taking the heat. And it’s true, they are not hitting very well. I don’t think Cards ownership have enough $18Ms and minor league phenoms to keep replacing players, though.

I don’t know where I’m going with this. Just struck by the similarities between this year and last. Disappointed so far with how things are going. But as you say, it is still early. I want a killer baseball team, like 2004/5.

by spfldbird on May 12, 2010 1:48 PM EDT reply actions  

How can you be disappointed with a 61%...

winning percentage? Realistically that’s the ceiling for baseball teams. If a great team gets lucky it can win 102+, but this team has been demonstrably unlucky with regard to babip and hitting with RISP. We’re hitting more line drives than anyone in the NL and 40% of them are falling into gloves.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes it is.

Plus, we’d had some seriously legitimate teams in the seasons preceding ‘06, so I don’t feel so bad about that poor record.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 12, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

The LOBs have been frustrating, but it clearly won’t be like that all season. Same with the RISP problem. Our pitching has been stellar and I think everyone will get better as the weather warms. I’m not worried a bit.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 12, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

its just being a fan

reactionary, emotional, sometimes irrational. In baseball, its sometimes hard to distinguish poor results from lack of effort (not like basketball, where you can visibly see a superstar athlete bitching out and phoning it in /Lebron cheap shot) so I think the two often get conflated by fans, and its sort of understandable why.

by mattyp on May 12, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

This posting

should be stamped at the beginning of every single Cards Talk thread.

Also, auto replied to every posting there.

by Michael_68_1999 on May 12, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

so it's not just my imagination

that every well struck ball is right at somebody?

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

No...

from what I’ve seen we’ve been really unlucky…

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Especially my man crush, skip

(I hope)

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Skip has been very unlucky.

Spants and I discussed it the other day.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally I'm hoping for all-socks slumpbusters

just to change it up from mustaches.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I want socks & mustaches

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

screw the powder blue

let’s go really, really retro

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

like

this?

Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on May 12, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

well maybe not the wool uniforms

and that looks a little Piratey. hmmm. move up a few decades.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yadi would be like, of course I can catch like that. are you all wusses?

just sew that little gold patch on, and he’s good to go.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too!

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 12, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

if only there were a photoshop of that on current players

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Big differences (knock on wood)

Chris Carpenter is not on the DL. Joe Thurston is not manning third base. Rick Ankiel and Chris Duncan are not playing center field and left field.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope the lineup goes Greene today.

Also with Lohse, you think TLR will ever let Molina catch for him? Just for a few weeks at least to see if his game improves. I watch him pitch and his stuff looks good but he gets pounded. I’m not skilled enough to look it up but is there a way on fangraphs to see his stats with Molina vs Larue?

T. Greene for SS

by paposse on May 12, 2010 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

If it does, he will be at 2nd.

TLR stated in the presser that BR is starting today.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 12, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's cool with me.

Actually I like Boog at short with Greene at 2nd quite a bit.

T. Greene for SS

by paposse on May 12, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

best up the middle defense ever?

       colby
boog greene
        yadi

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 12, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

2nd

        anybody
Wizard anybody
       anybody

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nooooooo...

    McGee
Ozzie Herr
     Pena

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hardly

        flood
maxvill javier
     mccarver (well sorta)

The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on May 12, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

get out of my car

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 12, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well done.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

if norris was pitching tonite i think you'd have seen greene at short

with schu at second. with the lefty on the mound, more likely to see schu sit in favor of greene. depending on how tonite goes, greene could very well be at short tomorrow.

i like boog, but if his offensive woes continue, greene will get a legit shot, and this is not a reaction to his errors last night – penny has to take the bulk of the responsibility for those runs, imo. and i believe scotty once made 3 errors in one inning, though i could be thinking of some other fine fielder. we know boog can field, but greene is also considered an excellent glove, and his upside offensively over boog is worth investigating (power + speed). greene was a first-round pick and a million-dollar bonus baby who has always been more highly regarded than boog, and at some point is going to get his shot – this is why i didn’t want him on the roster to begin the season, but rather playing everyday in memphis until called up for injury-replacement. now that he’s here, he should, imo, get a steady run of some games before lopex returns so we know where we sit at that point.

as for larue catching lohse, yadi should only catch about 80% of the games, or 4 of 5. to me it makes sense to set it up where larue catches lohse, rather than switching it around all the time. the only alternative would have been having larue catch garcia, but the rookie should probably get yadi’s guidance. over the course of the season it will negatively affect lohse’s numbers, if you believe in yadi’s defensive value, game-calling, framing, etc. (and you could throw in run support), but i’m sure the staff is aware of that and evaluates lohse’s performance accordingly.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed on BRyan's struggles.

If he continues to hit this poorly, Tyler Greene should absolutely get his chances. What I’m most concerned about is the frustration that’s clear to see on Ryan’s face. At some point in time I fear that frustration is going to start badly eating into his glove work.

We all have ways of coping. I use sex and awesomeness.

by the red baron on May 12, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

"...going to start..."

I hope you are correct, RB, and that it hasn’t already started.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

this

he’s never had a start like this … uh, ever. according to him, going all the way back. which to me is not surprising given that he’s fixed something that’s bothered him since h.s.

he’s gotta chillax. they all do. a few hours in the man stew.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, and also agree Yadi needs more days off.

I hatehatehate not seeing him in the lineup, because the dropoff from him to LaRue is pretty steep, but you can’t run one of your cornerstone players into the ground. Catcher is a brutal position, and Molina needs to sit out a bit more often than he has so far this season, I think.

We all have ways of coping. I use sex and awesomeness.

by the red baron on May 12, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

won't happen

Yadi’s going for that stolen bases stat.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

He had hung around about 1000 innings at catcher until last year

Then he was at C for 1176 innings…

Now this year so far he’s on pace for over 1200. Could have more to do with LaRue being out for a bit.

I’d like to see him back to around 1000. Over 1200 certainly seems excessive.

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a Cardinals and Cavs fan

it took every ounce of convincing from the Lady last night to keep me from playing in traffic.

by Hardcore Legend on May 12, 2010 2:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow, way to poke a bear with a stick

it’s taking every ounce of restraint I have to not rip your head off right now.

by Hardcore Legend on May 12, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I understand

I’m not really an NBA fan but it’s remarkable to see an amazing athlete totally tank in the playoffs. Are the Knicks paying him off?

T. Greene for SS

by paposse on May 12, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

my cousin's girlfriend's sorority sister

once had lunch with a girl who’s aunt used to date John Calipari , and he said, that she said, that she said, that she said, that he said he was interested in coaching the Bulls and that Lebron would go there because he (Calipari) would help him (Lebron) with his test scores.

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Save Ferris!

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

This goes to the top...

Stern

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 12, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

he has been good in the playoffs too in the past

last night was one of the most bizarre performances I’ve ever seen from a star athlete though. It was like Luke Wilson taking off his shoes in the Royal Tenenbaums. I’m not even talking about the shooting performance, it was just the effort – there was none. He was completely disinterested in winning. Even an injury wouldn’t halfway explain his performance last night.

by mattyp on May 12, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

This series would be like Albert Pujols

going into the NLCS, not swinging at any pitches except in one game…hitting 3 HRs and then going back to not taking the bat off his shoulder and then telling everyone to get off his case because he’s spoiled them all these years.

Which, sadly, is the same moody attitude both El Hombre and Lebron share that drives me nuts.

by Hardcore Legend on May 12, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apt comparison.

I think Albert has also used the phrase “I’ve spoiled you guys.”

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 12, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

reminiscent of kobe sulking a few years back

for being called out for shooting too much, so he had that game (maybe against the suns in the playoffs?) where he refused to shoot, just to show everyone how much they would miss his shots.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was against the Kings in the regular season actually

and it was a despicable act, but the problem with Kobe on those teams is that he never got any credit for working his ass off and being the best player on those Laker teams in 2002 and 2003, and most great players are selfish and egotistical — it’s what makes them great players. There’s no way that Magic or Bird or Jordan is putting up with their center not giving a shit for half of every season.

It was always Shaq this and Shaq that, and Shaq would roll his fat ass into camp out of shape and not even be ready to go until mid-February and the media wouldn’t give him any grief for it. Seriously — if Shaq had half the work ethic of Kobe he’d be the best player ever. He’s been a fat, lazy, talented guy for most of the past 10 years (since the Lakers first title), and two of the greatest shooting guards ever (Kobe and Wade) helped him win 4 titles, not the other way around. Jerry Buss finally got it right in 2005 when he traded Shaq and kept Kobe.

I always think it’s hilarious when people say “Kobe never won anything without another great player”. Well guess what? Neither did any of the guys Kobe played with either. Even MJ had Scottie Pippen, probably the most underappreciated superstar of the last 30 years.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree with all this

and kobe’s despicable act ranks up near pippen’s refusal to enter the game in my book.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Jackson running the last play of the game for Toni Kukoc

ranks up there with that all time dumbest coaching decisions in terms of team playoff chemistry. There’s no way Phil is running a play for Toni effing Kukoc with MJ as the alpha dog on the team. Mike would have committed a homicide. He thought he could push Pippen around, who had a 22-8-5-3 (Points, rebounds, assists, steals) that year by the way, and he was wrong.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

jordan would've been willing to pass the ball to kukoc, though

a lot of coaches run last-plays for someone other than the obvious. not a fan of phil, but was a bulls fan watching that game in new york, and had no problem with putting it in kukoc’s hands. not that it means anything about the decision, but it did work out well.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who's to say that Scottie wasn't willing to pass the ball to him?

You honestly think that MJ would have been ok with them running a play for Kukoc instead of putting the ball in his hands? Bullshit — there’s no way that happens, and there’s no way that Phil even thinks about doing it either, giving the ball to a rookie who’s 2-6 on the night instead of the veteran top 50 player who’s shooting 50% and had tied the game up a few possession’s before.

It didn’t work out well — it was a fucking disaster. They won Game 3, but Pippen froze Kukoc out the rest of the series and the Bulls lost in 7. They won the battle but lost the war.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

it worked out well, meaning that play - he hit the shot

and pippen’s childishness did cost that series, imo. he was sorta a punk – you don’t pull that on your team because your ego was bruised by a coach.

the ref’s would’ve never called that foul on jordan on the desperation three-point attempt, where pippen may have grazed him, but sure didn’t look like it. but pippen wasn’t jordan, no matter what he thinks.

i also remember pippen getting headaches against the pistons, whereas jordan would’ve played with a cracked skull.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

You also don't bush league your best player

as a coach in a tie game by giving the ball to a rookie who’s 2 – 6 shooting in the game.

Phil has to take some blame because that was a terrible decision.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

phil was trying to win the game

he thought that was the smart move. he didn’t do it to spite pippen, nor should he consider pippen’s feelings when drawing up the play. always ask yourself, what would tim duncan do?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

i wouldnt be so sure of all that

phil jackson is the king of the mindfuck, he is always playing mental games with his players in and out of the media.

by FunkeeC on May 12, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

not on the final possession of a playoff game

with the spurs it is usually ginobili or parker, and sometimes hill, getting the last shot, and i have never heard of tim duncan complaining. his presence is probably what frees them up.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

What playoff games do you watch?

Apparently only the ones from the last few years. And not the ones prior to 2005. Because those Spurs teams went in to Duncan in the post just about every time in the last 2 minutes of any game.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

for example

i believe that duncan hit the shot that put the spurs up only to get their hearts ripped out by fisher’s 0.4 shot

by FunkeeC on May 12, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm a spurs fan

have followed every year, and have played with many an nba player, and still discuss the game with folks who are involved.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then I think you would know

that nearly every play was run for Duncan from 1998 to 2005. But reality doesn’t matter, only your perception of it apparently.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dude.

Get over it. They weren’t all run for Duncan, although many were (the 3-pointer, e.g.)

by chalk on May 12, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you and I know that

But apparently Duncan has no ego.

In related news he’s also going to solve the middle east crisis and bring about world peace. And probably jump back in the pool in the next Olympics and whup Micheal Phelps.

It’s impossible to have a rational discussion about Tim Duncan with a Spurs fan.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

read more

do not equate me being a duncan fan with you being a kobe fan. i have no irrational love of duncan. you probably wear lakers gear or something. i like pop, and if he went to another team, i’d have no allegiance to the spurs. i would still have respect for duncan, but to portray me as a spurs fan in the same sense that you are a lakers fan is very misleading.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then why do you continue

to make irrational statements regarding him? Because that makes you look like an irrational Duncan fan. Keep in mind, you’re the one that brought Duncan into this discussion because you refuse to rip Phil Jackson, currently the coach of my beloved Lakers. BTW — I’ve criticized Kobe plenty as a Laker fan, I just think he gets a lot more criticism from people like you than he’s ever deserved.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Duncan would demand the basketball

and Popovich would run the play through him. That’s what TD would do.

You can criticize Scottie all you want, and he was in the wrong, clearly. But Phil, having coached MJ, should have known better.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jordan

While watching Kobe give up and the Celtics route the Lakers a couple years ago, I couldn’t help but think, “Jordan would never have allowed that to happen.”

While watching the Magic all-but-sweep the Cavs out of last year’s playoffs, I thought, “There’s no way Jordan lets that happen.”

I didn’t watch last night’s Cavs-Celts game, but, when Joe Posnanski is criticizing you, I mean wow. There’s no way Jordan turns in a performance like that in a pivotal Game 5. None whatsoever.

Maybe Lebron and Kobe will get there, but I often wonder if we’ll ever see a player exert his will on games the way Jordan did.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kobe has the best chance, IMO

I don’t see Lebron aging as well as Kobe and MJ

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

nah

Kobe’s already past his prime.

by chalk on May 12, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really hate this way of thinking

Jordan has some pretty awful games in his playoff career that nobody remembers because he was so great in other games. I think there are some people in the MSM who just like to rag on Kobe, and he’s probably deserved some of it too, but I can think of a couple of times where MJ quit in his team in his younger years just like Kobe did and he never had to play in the shadow of an immensely popular player on his own team either. I think had Jordan played in the shadow of someone like Shaq or Magic on the same team for the first half of his career, his career would look a lot more like Kobe’s does.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

MJ quit on his team?

this you would have to convince me of.

and jordan would not have been in the shadow of shaq or magic. this is perhaps a key difference between he and kobe. shaq would have respected and deferred to jordan, imo, and jordan would have commanded that respect. granted, kobe entered the league at a younger age, and had a bit more growing up to do than jordan, who had a national championship.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're kidding yourself.
shaq would have respected and deferred to jordan, imo, and jordan would have commanded that respect.

Shaq was a veteran superstar who was making movies in 1999. If Jordan comes along at age 19 you think the Big Aristotle is just going to defer to him? You’re nuts. Shaq’s entire career is based on Shaq doing whatever the fuck he wanted to do pretty much the entire time.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

was not rodman doing what he wanted

and did he pull all that stuff with jordan? i think when jordan was 19 he was at unc – as i said, kobe entered the league at a younger age, and so the situation was different.

and yes, i am nuts.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Different story with Rodman

Dennis knew who the alpha dog was and MJ already had three titles at that point. Rodman has also worn out his welcome in three different place and wasn’t the FACE OF THE NBA like Shaq was when he was in L.A after Jordan retired.

You cannot compare their careers fairly, that’s what I’m saying.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

A fair point and one I'm not sure of.

When did Jordan quit on his team in such a selfish fashion? Maybe he did. I am not sure. What I do know is that Jordan never quit on his team on bigger stages. Kobe quit and the Lakers quit against the Celtics two years ago. A mature Jordan never does. In fact, I think this point applies better to Lebron than Kobe, aside from the shadow of Shaq aspect. I used to stick up for Kobe, especially right after he dubbed himself “Black Mamba” in that ESPN the Magazine article. The Kobe who wore black tights and Nikes with snakeskin accents—seemingly transforming into Black Mamba—was a player I very much enjoyed watching, because he was obviously insane. However, that LA-Boston series was where I think I decided that Kobe would never equal Jordan’s greatness.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he has to

If he wins another title or two, he’s in the top 5 players of all time (and probably makes a good argument for #2, honestly), and I think he’d be satisfied with that.

He’ll score more points than MJ, he’ll have nearly as many or as many rings, and he’ll have the 82 point game, the second best since Wilt. Nobody will ever revere him like they did MJ, but I think a lot of that has to do with perception more than anything else. Jordan could do no wrong for the majority of people, so trying to compare him to other people is impossible.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Jordan could do no wrong..."

I still remember a media member asking him at his (I believe, second) retirement press conference something about international politics and whether MJ would attempt to bring about world peace. To this day, that stands out to me as being utterly ridiculous. But, I think it shows the pedestal upon which he was placed.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mostly because he didn't give a shit

You can’t ever really WIN at politics and be celebrated by everyone — you’ve effectively pissed off 50% of the country whenever you win.

As Jordan said: “Everyone buys sneakers, both Republicans and Democrats”.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

couldn't some of the lack of reverence have to do with Kobe being a worse player than Michael Jordan?

Jordan dominates him in all the advanced metrics, not to mention the traditional ones, both in the regular season and the playoffs. I think it was John Hollinger who once said that Bryant’s career looks a lot like a player who peaks as post-comeback Jordan, which sounds about right to me.

LeBron will have a very strong case by the time he’s done, but Kobe seems to me to clearly be a step behind.

by DanUpBaby on May 12, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Michael "Air" Jordan

I love Black Mamba and all, but I doubt a lot of people even know that nickname, which begs the question if it is a nickname at all.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I giggle at black mamba

1. It’s silly.
2. Beatrix Kiddo couldn’t be reached for comment.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on May 12, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Worse player?

Considering that the league he’s playing in is a lot better top to bottom than the league was in MJ’s heyday, I’d call that pretty dubious.

Hollinger’s PER metric has a LOT of noise, imo. Too many issues to even go into without a fanpost length comment.

I think this has a lot more to do with the situations those players are in as well. If you swap the careers of Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan, I have no doubt that Garnett dominates the league on a Spurs team coached by Pop and has 4 titles while Duncan is mired in Minnesota during his entire prime. I don’t think that Duncan was any better a player than KG, he was just in a better situation.

Same with Jordan — if in his rookie year you put him on a playoff team with the best center in the league in his prime, I think his rate stats look a whole lot different. If you put him with a dominant low post player for all but 2 years of his entire career? His rate stats look A LOT DIFFERENT. Jordan never played with an All-Star low post threat in his entire career. Horace Grant was a defensive stopper with a great 15 foot jumper, but he was never a back to the basket low post scorer.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Team success does not equal individual skill

Even if Garnett would also have earned titles with the Spurs, that doesn’t make him as good as Duncan, and it’s not like quality stats depend on team success. In basketball it’s really all about usage (which is also flawed, but I don’t think it would affect duncan/garnett comparison that much)

by chalk on May 12, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Garnett has always been a superior defender and rebounder to Duncan

Always.

Duncan gets a lot of credit for being a team guy, but part of that is having a team to be a team guy on.

Go look at some of the coaches and teammates that Garnett played with. The only time he ever had quality teammates in Minnesota he took them to the conference finals. Put him on a team past his prime with 2 other top 15 players in the league just past their prime? TITLE.

There are other examples of this. If you swap Dennis Johnson and Sleepy Floyd, Floyd probably has a more well known career even though they are pretty comparable players.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

sleepy and DJ = LOL

barkley would tell you that it goes duncan – malone – garnett, fwiw.

you can’t look at numbers in basketball the same as in baseball. some dude that averages 20 on a crappy team might get 5 on a good team. and some guys can get whatever numbers they want, if they wanted. garnett’s numbers may have been suppressed in san antonio, even if he was the same exact player.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm done

You’re clearly off the rails here.

some dude that averages 20 on a crappy team might get 5 on a good team. and some guys can get whatever numbers they want, if they wanted. garnett’s numbers may have been suppressed in san antonio, even if he was the same exact player.

I can’t argue against someone who’s apparently in another universe.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, sorry

but if you don’t understand that, you clearly do not know how it works. if you are the best option on a bad team, you will most likely average 20. you go to a good team where you are the fourth best option, then you will average nowhere near 20. this is not groundbreaking news.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're telling me

Kevin Garnett is a fourth option on any team from 1997 to 2007? You’re beyond ridiculous. BEYOND RIDICULOUS.

Just stop talking, seriously, because you clearly think we’re talking about soccer or something.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

where did i say garnett is a fourth option?

perhaps you should re-read, and may have taken something wrong.

before you begin calling people ridiculous, you should perhaps entertain the idea that not agreeing with you is not automatically ridiculous. i have no idea if you have ever been paid to play basketball, but i would bet the answer is no. you just come off like a kobe/lakers fan to me.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

And you come off like a Spurs fan

which, turns out, is exactly what you are. Huh, funny, that.

You don’t have to agree with me, but you also have to have a point that isn’t ridiculous. KG’s stats in Minnesota weren’t “empty”. Without him, they’re the worst team in the league for most of his entire career, yet they made the playoffs during a lot of those years in the best conference.

Tim Duncan has been an elite player on a very good team for most of his career. Some of that has to do with Tim Duncan, but a LOT of it has to do with the Spurs winning the lottery while David Robinson was hurt and having Popovich in the front office and then on the bench building that franchise. KG had none of that in MInnesota — he had to carry the worst franchise with no supporting cast and a clearly inept GM for the entire first decade of his career and didn’t bitch about it once while being an elite player pretty much that entire time as well.

If you swap them, I have no doubt that the Spurs are just as successful and the Timberwolves are just as bad. It’s merely my opinion, but what’s NOT feasible is to say that KG was the reason that Minnesota never won anything and that Tim Duncan is the only reason the Spurs were so successful.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm actually a bigger jazz fan

both are because of the coaches involved – basically i am a sloan and pop fan. have never been a huge duncan fan. on the other hand, i enjoy watching ginobili and kirilenko the most, and deron williams.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

btw, i never said kg had empty stats

or that he was a 4th option. i said his numbers would be somewhat depressed in san antonio because he wouldn’t have to do it all and the defensive schemes aren’t necessarily designed to get dunc big rebounding numbers, etc. i don’t believe garnett is as good as duncan, although he has more natural talent, but he surely would have been a winner in san antonio, and may have even won a ring or two.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which means you never watched KG in Minny

There’s only one season where he took more shots than Duncan, and he averaged more assists than Duncan in just about every season. Why? He got double teamed more. You couldn’t double Duncan with Robinson, Elliot, et al but you could double KG on every possession.

Look up the numbers. Your case just doesn’t hold any water.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh

i saw garnett in minny. saw him live, in fact.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

that clearly makes you an expert. Sorry to challenge you Mr. Schwab.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that's what he's saying

maybe that players get better stats on bad teams. I don’t think KG is #4, but cardball still has a point about empty stats.

by chalk on May 12, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some do, some don't

KG’s stats were in no way “empty” with the T-Wolves. I’ve never seen an elite player with a worse supporting cast for a decade except maybe Oscar Robertson for the Cincy Royals.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

A crappy supporting cast

doesn’t diminish his ability to get rebounds or take a lot of shots. It does affect shot quality, assists, etc.

by chalk on May 12, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why do I have to look everything up?

Look it up! He didn’t take a lot of shots. He never averaged more than 20 shots a game in Minnesota.

Garnett Career: 15.9 Shots per game.
Duncan Career: 16.0 Shots per game.

Duncan has the edge in rebounds 11.6 to 10.8 and KG has the edge in assists, 4.2 to 3.2.

The stats were not inflated. If you’d bother to actually look them up, you’d know this.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

nature of the player, too

garnett has always been reticent to take the shot, even when designed for him. duncan does what pop says.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

OHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

So NOW it’s about nature of the player, because the stats don’t work out in your favor.

I think KG was the de facto leader of the Celts team in 2008, but I guess that doesn’t matter. That team is the only team on par with the ones Duncan has had in SA, and it won the title. I think that kinda refutes all your jaded barbs at him right there.

You want to compare Pop to the coaches KG has had? Because you probably wouldn’t listen to that group of geniuses either.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

the timeline adjustment is yours to make if you want to

but as a baseball guy I’ve never been inclined to; I’m not about to judge Babe Ruth and Matt Stairs on anything except what they actually did. Considering Jordan was a useful player as a 39 year-old in 2003 I don’t think he’d have a difficult time adjusting to the higher quality of play in today’s game, and considering James dominates it to the same extent Jordan once did it isn’t so good now that a player can’t exert his influence in the same way.

As for the team differences, that’s certainly true, but I’m reluctant to give a player credit for things he didn’t do. What exactly do you propose happens to Jordan if he plays with Shaq in their respective primes, besides even more championships? Right now the argument seems circular: Bryant is as good as Jordan but it’s masked because he played the first part of his career with Shaq, Jordan wouldn’t be as effective on a rate basis if he played with Shaq because Bryant wasn’t.

by DanUpBaby on May 12, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm just saying their careers are hard to compare,

and because of that, people will always revere Jordan and shit on Kobe, even though I would consider them to be pretty comparable players. I think this has a lot to do with perception.

What exactly do you propose happens to Jordan if he plays with Shaq in their respective primes, besides even more championships?

I propose that Jordan gets the “spoiled, egotistical crybaby” moniker because he wouldn’t have put up with Shaq coming into camp overweight and out of shape every year, but it wouldn’t have been his team, it would have been Shaq’s team. In terms of ego, he and Kobe are on the same level. The difference is that MJ never played with another alpha dog on his team for his entire career. I don’t see him handling it well, AT ALL, knowing what I know about him from speeches and anecdotal evidence, and especially not one who seemingly is more interested in being a pop diva than becoming the best player he can be.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why does everyone forget

that a lot of MJ’s teammates in Chicago those first 4 years didn’t want to play with him either. He got Doug Collins fired as the head coach in Chicago. He was, by all accounts, a horrible teammate.

Bill Simmons has a great section on MJ in his Book of Basketball. I think he’s the best player ever. I do. But not because he was a charismatic, affable, great teammate, because he wasn’t, and I think that’s what a lot of people use to criticize Kobe. It’s unfair criticism, imo.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's fair

I haven’t been taking into account and don’t really care about their reputations as teammates or people, but if that’s what you’re trying to defend him on I’ll buy that they’re both flawed human beings.

I read the Book of Basketball, and while some of it was interesting his stacked-deck defense of Bill Russell and absolutely absurd decision to include Robert Horry in his faux-Hall of Fame kind of ruined it for me.

by DanUpBaby on May 12, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

but he has a million rings!!121211!!!!1

and when i 1st moved to LA area, i saw horry several times hanging out in clubs a friend took me to. would just be chillin at a random corner of the club in a female’s ear most of the night

by FunkeeC on May 12, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

but who hasnt wanted to throw something at our boss

that he did means something right?

and all sarcasm aside, i completely agree with you. not sure how winning in team sports gets conflated w/ talent and skill. adam morrison will soon have 2 rings.

by FunkeeC on May 12, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's a great analogy

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

What makes Horry so different

from Bill Russell? Horry is essentially a modern day equivalent of Russell in my estimation — team first guy who could probably average a 20-10 on an average team but decided to be a role player on elite teams instead.

Russell played with twice as many HOF players in his career as Horry, they are the same size, and had similar skills (great on-ball defender, above-average rebounder, impeccable team defender) plus the ability to hit threes at a 35-40% clip.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

so he could average 20 on an average team

but not 20 on an elite team? i believe you thought i was off the rails for suggesting such a thing.

but yes, horry = russell just as sleepy = DJ. i see the comparison.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, he CHOSE this route

So Kevin Garnett = Robert Horry then? Whatever dude. You’re putting words in my mouth.

You said Kevin Garnett, in his prime, would have been the fourth option on a Spurs team with no Tim Duncan. And that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Get a clue man, there’s no way that’s happening.

How old are you? Seriously? Are you 12 or something? Dennis Johnson and Sleepy Floyd are nearly identical players, except that one played for exactly 1 team that made it out of the first round of the playoffs, while the other played on the storied Celtics of the 1980’s. Both were very good defenders, although Johnson was probably better, but Sleepy was a better distributor on offense than DJ was. All in all, they’re really similar players.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

again, read again

please find where i said garnett was a 4th option. i believe you are now quoting yourself misrepresenting me, as i recall has happened before.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, you did

perhaps you should look some things up instead of relying on your obviously tainted opinion of these players.

garnett’s numbers may have been suppressed in san antonio, even if he was the same exact player.

That’s implying he isn’t option 1. Which is really just a factually bad opinion.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

again, his numbers would be suppressed

and dunc’s likely bigger in minny. i’ve explained this above. in no way did i even hint that garnett was a fourth option.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

And again

you’d be dead wrong.

But you can’t bother to click over to basketball reference and look at the fucking stats, it’s like arguing with a brick wall.

Here the links:

Garnett

Duncan

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

how do you know what would have been

if they were changed out? you are using stats of where they were to argue what would have been if the situations were reversed. you can’t just take one’s numbers and put them on a different team, in a completely different situation.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

So Duncan would have put up the same numbers and

won 4 titles in Minnesota? Is that what you’re saying? That Duncan is just a title winning machine and Kevin Garnett hates winning championships?

This gets more interesting as we get further into the argument……

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

He didn't say that

maybe you should be a little less confrontational and a little more factual.

by chalk on May 12, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

having read the rest of this now

i don’t know who you fancy yourself to be, but calling people 12 and such…i suppose you played with these guys and have a pretty good take, so i’ll just let it be.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

and I suppose

that because you know all these guys (supposedly) you know better. But you’re clearly more knowledgeable and I should just trust that you know everything, when you enjoy spouting stats and intangibles when they support your opinion but criticize them when they don’t.

All I’m saying is a Lakers team with Kobe whupped the shit out of your boy Timmy and his Spurs for pretty much half this decade. Now I’m done.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh

you infer a lot. you’d make a good yanks fan.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go look at the stats

Kobe owns the Spurs.

He also owns the Jazz. No wonder you hate him so much!

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

all i care about is sloan and pop, and they are both better than phil, imo.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not according to how you measure things

Because Jerry Sloan doesn’t have a ring and Pop only has four. Phil has 10.

But I guess if we swapped them around….oh, right, we can’t do that. Situations, nature of players, “empty” stats and such.

I mean, Phil only has a winning record against both of them, but I suppose that doesn’t matter either, right?

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

kobe will never be regarded

in the same way as jordan, bird, magic, big o – not by any ot those guys, anyway.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

he lacks a foil he can't point to a list of HOF players he

was forced to defeat in order to get his “solo” title

Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot

by TomCat009 on May 12, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is why the Cavs getting ousted

is bad for his legacy, imo.

FWIW, Kobe’s record against Duncan’s teams is unparalleled. He owned those Spurs teams during the first three titles they won, not Shaq, but Duncan isn’t a natural foil for him.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's a better player than Oscar ever was, actually

Oscar was a top 10 player all-time, but I’m not sure how successful he’d be now. He’d get a 25-5-6 or something right now I think. You have to remember that teams averaged 25-30 more shots per game in the 60’s than at any other time in league history (while shooting a lower percentage), so there were more assists to be had, more shots to go around, and thus more rebounds to get.

I actually think that LeBron is a very good representation of what a modern day Oscar (albeit a little bigger) would look like. Without the surliness.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

i wasn't talking about numbers at all

all four guys i mentioned could have put up whatever numbers they wanted, basically. there’s a lot more involved, which is why guys like barkley sometimes put lebron in that group – potentially – but you don’t hear even magic extol kobe to that point of hallowed ground. i’m sure kobe is well aware of his numbers.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree

Nobody dotes on Oscar without “The Triple Double Season”, and nobody dotes on Magic without him retiring at 31 as the all time assists leader either.

FWIW, Magic still thinks that he would have been able to break up the Bulls dynasty had he been able to keep playing in the early 90’s. I don’t really agree with him, even as a Lakers fan, but let’s remember that Magic thinks a lot more of Magic than a lot of the rest of us do.

Former players always remember “the good old days” just like the rest of us. Wilt still thought he would average 50 and 30 in the 90’s, when teams were taking 25 fewer shots a game and all of them had 7 footers. Wilt would have been a HOF good player, don’t get me wrong, but he ain’t putting up video game numbers against the league in the 90’s. Not happening. Russell’s Celtics didn’t have a player on the squad who could make a shot outside of 15 feet more than 40% of the time, so they ain’t runnin off 8 straight titles in the 90’s either. Especially with a 6’8" Bill Russell playing 44 minutes a game at center.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

i've heard all those "old-timers"

talk about lebron in a completely different manner than they have kobe. so it’s not just they thought their era was best.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nobody respects Kobe

That’s my point. Everyone is wowed with LeBron, and what has he won? NOTHING. I guarantee you that in 20 years if Kobe has 5 rings and LeBron has 0, the shoe will be on the other foot.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

rings

how many does ted williams have? put lebron on those LA teams and kobe in cleveland, since you like doing that, and we’ll see where the shoe is.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keep shitting on Kobe

and praising LeBron. I mean, why stop now, right? You’ve probably been doing it since 2004 anyway….

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

not a fan of either of those teams

so i am trying to be objective. i think you are a lakers fan. understood.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you like giving Duncan a lot of credit

and Kobe none. As a Spurs fan I would expect nothing less. I mean, KB’s only been slaughtering your team for a decade…

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

again

i’m a pop fan, and more of a jazz fan anyway. you are a trash-talking fan, and i’m ok with that.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not trash talking

I’m the only one in this argument who bothers to look anything up! You just keep quoting your BS arguments like you know better than everyone else, even though the evidence doesn’t support much of anything you say.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm sorry you are so angry

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who's angry?

You sound ill-informed and you don’t feel like becoming better informed, so it’s easy to just call me that angry, petty one when your arguments don’t hold up to evidence.

You could be right, but you’d rather just make arguments and not back them up. Can’t see the forest for the trees….

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Lord

I’ve read this whole conversation (I hate basketball) and you continually come off like an ass fourstick. Go back and re-read it because this type of back and forth where you get frustrated and start getting snarky and rude is exactly why people get mad and don’t want to engage you. You seem to think you can bludgeon people into your point of view (which is subjective in this instance) and when they don’t give you start belittling them.

If you can’t pick up on this then, seriously, maybe this isn’t the right place for you because I don’t think I can read these kind of posts any longer.

Think; It's not illegal yet.

by azruavatar on May 12, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

to further your point

the cover of SI does not say can Lebron get a ring, but

Can Shaq get Lebron his first ring or something to that effect….

to prove your point that shaq probably gets too much credit…

anway…. back to the game

Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog

by stlcardsfan4 on May 12, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

i know he had the great game 3

but i’m not convinced his elbow is screwing with him. now, that wouldn’t explain everything but it would go a long way to explaining why his shot sucks. LeBron’s comments on the other hand were just stupid.

along those same lines, i’m not convinced albert is healthy. i know he plays through pain, etc. And he is extending the zone big time. While I’m not sure an injury, like his back barking, would explain it, he did have the back issue. Albert looks uncomfortable at the plate, sort of like in Sept when his elbow was acting up. meh, i hope he’s fine but i wonder.

LeBron & Albert—both not their usual selves :(

by kalmavet on May 12, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

er sorry

not convinced his elbow is NOT screwing with him

damn brain, moving faster than my fingers again

by kalmavet on May 12, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

this line, referring to acquisitions, is interesting:

“It has been hard to tell if the Cavs are more concerned with winning or trying to convince LeBron that they are trying to win.”

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

well if this series is him testing them in any way

they are failing miserably. that roster is old (with a couple exceptions) and the coach sucks, imo. If he stays, it’s solely out of hometown loyalty

by kalmavet on May 12, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh and the extra year

but that could be worked around by sign-and-trade

by kalmavet on May 12, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

i intended to compare lebron/cavs to pujols/cards

in light of albert’s quotes and the holliday signing

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm reccing this comment until it can't walk

for the Tenenbaums reference.

We all have ways of coping. I use sex and awesomeness.

by the red baron on May 12, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

LeBron is a fantastic player

in every game I’ve ever seen before last night. Something is wrong with that elbow, mark my words.

Dude — he scored 25 CONSECUTIVE POINTS a few years ago against a good Pistons defense to singlehandedly win a game. He can come up big, he just didn’t last night. It happens.

My biggest concern if I’m a LeBron supporter is why he was so lackadaisical last night and not forcing himself to the basket. Barkley pegged it right on in the post game show. He was the MVP this season, but he didn’t leave it all out there like the MVP’s that Chuck played against in his career.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha

Imagine if baseball and basketball playoffs were at the same time…

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 12, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh noes!

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 12, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

My Cavs DVDs almost went out the window last night

Last night was the most upset I’ve ever been about a sporting event outcome. I was so incredible pissed, despondent, and honestly unable to come to grips with what I just saw.

by Hardcore Legend on May 12, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

i understand

I am a Steelers fan. And that whole Niel O’Donald in the Superbowl was really, really upsetting.

by Evilfrog on May 12, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

as a Cleveland anything fan

shouldn’t you know better than to get your hopes up?

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am a Pens fan

So I’m with you there.

T. Greene for SS

by paposse on May 12, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about the past 2 weeks

Lebron has been hurt/played like crap, Albert can’t hit HRs anymore and Sid hasn’t scored in the entire series.

by Hardcore Legend on May 12, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't Sid have that mid-air slap on net last game?

Or is my brain frying? But yes, it’s been a brutal stretch. But also, like you, I live in Pirates baseball land and I wake up each day and come to work hearing their sorrows and it makes me feel better.

T. Greene for SS

by paposse on May 12, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unbelievable...

that the Mistake By the Lake is going to burn through the LeBron era without a championship ring. I bet he wins 3+ in NY.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not convinced that even Lebron can save the Knicks

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

That will be tough to fit with the cap

especially since Bosh thinks he’s worth the max from what I’ve heard, and Wade probably is….

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lebron has 3 legit options to win and play somewhere else

1) Chicago
2) New Jersey
3) Clippers

None are really that desirable but all have the money, talent and draft picks to make it worth his while….as well as bigger markets.

by Hardcore Legend on May 12, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just playing in NY ups...

your marketing dollars though. LeBron/Wade/Bosh could all take much less and make much more by going to NY.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

These guys have pretty big egos

Just sayin’

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I read that theory on ESPN awhile back

(FESPN)

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is it a theory?

If you play in Cleveland you can be the official spokesman for Larry’s RV and Trailer… With the Knicks, you can be the king of NY.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

23rd largest metro area in the U.S. vs. the cultural capital of the world

so yeah, not a fair comparison in that regard.

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

the theory is that they would all agree to take a pay cut for championships

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

supposedly some agent estimated that playing in NY

will net LeBron an additional $20 million a year — wow

by OCCardsFan on May 12, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

can't you pay your own guy whatever you want though?

i seem to recall the bulls paying jordan 36mil one year, but i guess the rules could’ve changed.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can

Cleveland can pay him more than anyone else, but you still have to pay the luxury tax on the money that is over the cap, and if you’re over the cap it makes trading for players really, really difficult as well.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah, ok

did you see that jordan’s buddy krausse was named head of international scouting by the chisox?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

outside of the Cubs, what's so not desirable about Chicago?

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lake Effect Snow

>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez

by TBender on May 12, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chicago makes a ton of sense

if his #1 criteria is winning. Rose would instantly be the best player he’s played with and roster is generally young. plus in Chicago he’d still cash in bigtime on marketing; maybe not to the degree at NY, but he’s LeBron f’n James, he’ll sell everywhere

by kalmavet on May 12, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's hard to imagine that it would matter

where a global icon lives/plays. at one time an nba player would get more exposure on certain teams, but in this day and age it seems a team just gets more exposure by having an icon – in other words, he would get the knicks on to national tv, but the knicks aren’t getting him any more exposure.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree

but i wonder if he thinks that way. ultimately his exposure due to titles > exposure due solely to city

by kalmavet on May 12, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

i could see bosh in miami

with wade.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Knicks can afford three max contracts under the projected cap

but one of them would probably have to be a sign and trade. So if they signed LeBron and Joe Johnson, then traded Lee in a sign and trade for Bosh, they’d still have enough cap room left to sign a mid-level players to fill out the roster. If I was the Knicks, I’d try to get Ray Allen (could be had for a mid-level this offseason, I’m sure of it) or Mike MIller and put this lineup on the floor for 36-40 minutes a night:

Bosh
Gallinari
LeBron
Miller/Allen
Johnson

How in the hell does a Mike D’Antoni coached team with those five guys NOT score 130 points a game?

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

No kidding dude.

They could be stacked if it all falls in their favor, especially with their cap situation. I just think the toughest part is convincing Lebron to come to NY. I personally think that he ends up with the Bulls at this point, and they trade off some pieces for a big man, at least someone like Joel Pryzbilla.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 12, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it's going to depend on Nike

to be totally honest. Bosh, Wade, Johnson, and LeBron are all Nike guys. So are guys like Amare and Josh Smith. I could honestly see the Nike playing a big role in how this all works out.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Somehow I doubt that there's

a provision in their Nike contracts saying they have to join the same team.

by chalk on May 12, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

nike would maybe want them all on separate teams

who knows, but nike is in a sense their agent, so i’m sure they at least provide some advice.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure whether Nike would prefer

to market them as rivals or as a dream team, but any impact of Nike probably depends on the players’ willingness to pass up big team contracts. I think the NBA’s payroll laws probably limit any effect that Nike could have in either sense.

by chalk on May 12, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that's what he is saying,

but I do remember something reporting that some contracts with shoe companies have clauses for increases in the deals’ money value if a player moves to NYC. Don’t know if that is true. If it is, it doesn’t seem unlikely that some or all of that list have such a clause in their deal with Nike.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

You wouldn't know anyway

Not all of these contracts are disclosed, because they don’t have to be.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is nothing in the NBA's CBA

to keep a player from taking a smaller contract in order to make more non-basketball income. I don’t even know how you’d police that actually, and if you’re David Stern do you even fucking care? Having the Knicks be relevant would be a fantastic thing for the league.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ego takes care of it by itself.

These guys are all about image. You really think Lebron would ever accept a salary less than Kobe’s? Even Wade or Bosh, they don’t want to be a mid-salary guy, that hurts your image.

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

or Albert Pujols in 2012...

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

longo hadn't played a day in the bigs

when he accepted that contract. if he took it tomorrow, that would be different.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree

I think that Bosh would take less just to get the fuck out of purgatory. In fact, he’ll most likely be taking less than he could make in Toronto to get the hell out of there.

Lebron already makes twice what Kobe does due to his shoe contract and myriad of other $$$, but the only way he’s going to measure up in the long term is to get some fucking titles, and taking less so that he can be on a good team is one way to win those titles.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

or he could just win one this year

granted, the lakers should be heavy favorites. as stacked as they are, they’d have to stumble to not win it all.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Orlando and Cleveland will both cause them trouble

They are the only other teams with size and athletic forwards.

The Suns should be toast in 5 games, because none of the mis-matches that plagued the Spurs apply to the Lakers.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree about the suns

cavs would have the best player on the floor (depending on elbow) and magic would have the best big man on the floor, but i don’t see either having near the overall talent as the lakers.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

But let’s say Nike kicks in $30M on your shoe deal if you play in a major market. So instead of taking a max deal, you take half of that, let Nike pay the rest, and build a dream squad in MSG with LeBron, Bosh, Johnson, and Wade.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's when stern would have to step in

i understand it’s nyc, and the league would love for them to be relevant, but that would not fly.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why?

Explain that to me? Why does the league get to mandate how much other players can make outside of their basketball contract? There’s nothing in the CBA about it, and NBAPA would have a shit fit if he stepped in a prevented those players from making money they’ve been offered.

Legally, there’s nothing he can do about it. Ethically, I don’t think it makes much difference.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

you think stern would let nike run the league

put together teams as they saw fit? i don’t. it’s like when charles finley tried selling players and mlb stepped in. i don’t think it has anything to do with the cba but rather the integrity of the game.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

So Stern should run the league then?

If so, he should have stepped in and murdered Isiah Thomas before he could run the Knicks franchise into the ground or force Donald Sterling to sell the Clippers and force Chris Cohan to sell the Warriors.

Stern basically stole a storied franchise from Seattle (and one of the best fanbases in basketball for 30 years) because the city refused to build the team a new arena with taxpayer money, to replace the 18 year old KeyArena facelift which made more than enough money when Seattle was winning and when Howard Schultz owned the team.

I’d rather have Nike putting together dynasties for me to watch than let these jackasses continue to run franchises into the ground.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't know about all that

just know that nike wouldn’t be allowed to run the league.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

and I totally disagree

because there’s nothing the commish can do about it. Nothing.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's funny?

You think Selig could do something about such a thing? Nope. He can’t.

The NFL? Maybe, although that’s mostly because their union is a mess.

You forget that the Commish works on behalf of the OWNERS and is not an independent entity, so preventing players from earning dollars is going to be seen as a labor issue.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

the owners would not allow

nike to set up one team. and stern works for the owners.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not gonna look good

when you try and make that case to the NLRB I’m going to guess.

But that’s fine, you clearly are just smarter than everyone else.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm only talking to you

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true

but you like debunking opinions made by other people without a shred of evidence to support your point.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Talking you off of the ledge

The Cavs are an outstanding team, and I think LeBron is saving his best for last. Don’t worry, it’ll be fine.

Jobu needs a refill

by lightbulb on May 12, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

the rumor now is

he has a torn ligament in his elbow. The ledge is getting smaller by the hour.

by Hardcore Legend on May 12, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh boy

Umm, uhh, you’ve still got Shaq? He’s a “proven winner.” That’s something…

Jobu needs a refill

by lightbulb on May 12, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, Pujols and Lebron could be heading for the same outcome:

Tommy John Surgery.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

the appropriate VEB meme is "flagged!"

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

i haven't really been following

how did that happen? a torn elbow ligament seems strange in basketball.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

If Atlanta could win a road playoff game down 3-2 (they’d only won one road playoff game in the last 3 years) with the worst coach in the NBA, LeBron could easily win one in Beantown (hell, he’s already done it once this series). I’m thinking they come back and take the series.

by jd is legend on May 12, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

that would make for great theatre

but sadly the most likely explanation for last night is his elbow is worse than believed….

by kalmavet on May 12, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

QUIZ!

I got 20 out of 29. Got most of the NL but would have never guessed the hitter for the Marlins.

40 HR hitters

T. Greene for SS

by paposse on May 12, 2010 2:33 PM EDT reply actions  

I got 21, should have had 22

If I had spelled the Jays’ hitter’s name right

by jd is legend on May 12, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow
You got 21 out of 29 last 40 home run hitter for each MLB team.

should have got all but Pitt & Toronto..damn the pressure!

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

minnesota, not toronto

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

crap...

I spent 1:30 trying to figure out how to spell morneou.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's still wrong.

Took me like 20 seconds to spell the flubs’ hitter’s first name.

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wanted to do it the right way.

I cheated on The Nat’s hitter though, no idea how he spelled it

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

also

I typed in who I thought the white sox hitter was, and a different sox hitter came up

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too

They both hit 40+, so it just lists the one that hit a couple more even if you type in the other guy.

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I figured that out...

with :30 to go.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

You clearly never took high school French!

Speaking of which, I was in line for a sandwich at lunch today with some French folks. I managed to converse pathetically with them, explaining that I only know a little French, and that they should have a nice day.

by mojowo11 on May 12, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Tigers and Pirates threw me for a loop

22… Got Florida’s when I guessed for another team.

I somehow didn’t think of the Angels hitter as well…

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I got all but Stargell

It’s a good thing that the Twins don’t have a lot of sluggers though.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I got 17

and would have had 18 had I known how to spell “Teixeira”. Also “Derrik” Lee? I thought his name was David. So I didn’t get that one either. I did get the Marlins but it was because I was trying to get Detriot lol.

Looking for a good picture of Skip putting on his batting gloves to make an Avatar

by Skips OCD on May 12, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is incredible...

I was just thinking he might be toast as major league starter.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

by the time dusty gets through with him?

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not even that...

he just… isn’t a good pitcher.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

well that too.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

didn't he have great success the second half last year?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah he was great last August/September *
  • Against Pittsburgh: 4-0, 25 1/3 innings, 22 hits, 6 ERs, 19 Ks

Against all others: 2-3, 50 innings, 57 hits, 22 ERs, 44Ks

And he destroyed them again today.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

last year was his first full year (well, 20 starts, he did have 14 starts in the miors)

and he had an ERA+ of 95 with a 4.1 BB/9 and a 6.8 K/0.

Last two seasons in the minors he was under 4.0 BB/9 and over 7 K/9.

My point being he may not be a top of the line starter, and I haven’t watched him enough to now exactly how good his stuff is, but he is young and has shown talent throughout the minor leagues, there is no reason to believe that he would be a successful major league starter still.

by Evilfrog on May 12, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

He could be an Anthony Reyes type...

where the fastball doesn’t strike out the better hitters at the major league level and he can’t get the ground balls either… These guys fool you with success in the minors that doesn’t translate.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes

but in his first extended stay in the majors he was basically league average.

by Evilfrog on May 12, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

With a big league breaking ball

and a 96 mph fastball.

He’s got much better stuff than Reyes had.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Toast?

Dude’s 24 years old. Waino was 25 when he had his first major league start.

He also had 7 consecutive quality starts in July and August last year, so he’s shown signs he can pitch at this level.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

He can pitch...

…120 times a game. Just ask Dusty.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's shown signs that he can dominate the Pirates...

He doesn’t strike anyone out. He doesn’t have good command. He doesn’t get ground balls. One or more of these things could, in theory, change, but after 230+ innings in the big leagues he’s looking more and more like a reliever.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

can't see him going to the pen anytime soon

unless he’s traded to the cubs.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

He had a 4.41 FIP last year

That’s just a hair below #3 starter territory, but you think he’s on his way out of the baseball or out of the starting rotation?

I don’t have to remind you of guys who struggled for two years with his type of stuff and then suddenly figured it out do I? I think he’s way to young to give up on just yet, and could be a borderline #2 starter in a year or two.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not that I disagree with your overall point

(I don’t really know enough about him to have a strong opinion either way). But he’s striking out more than 8 per 9 innings on this young season. And last year, in his first full season in MLB, he struck out almost 7 per 9. Those numbers aren’t too shabby. Of course he also walks way too many (MLB career K:BB ratio of 1.4)….
FWIW, he had 6 K and no BB today.

by BTown Birds fan on May 12, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

They do have McClutch

and Lastings Milledge!

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, that brings his pitchers per start down to...what?...115?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

MLB.com: DeRosa calls wrist surgery "major failure"

and claims that another surgery will likely be necessary. The reporter suggests Wainwright beaning DeRosa might be a cause of the symptoms:

DeRosa thought he began sensing the numbness two or three weeks ago, which might coincide with an April 24 game against St. Louis in which he was hit twice by Adam Wainright pitches.

“I feel like my bottom hand’s underwater. I don’t have much feeling in my bottom two fingers,” said DeRosa, a right-handed batter.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 3:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Ouch.

I forgot about WW beating the shit out of him.

Yay Freese!

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

may not be the wrist, though.

Usually numbness in the 2 last fingers is from a nerve compression in the elbow or neck. Either way, I second Toppins’ “Yay Freese!”

“I don’t have much feeling in my bottom two fingers,"

Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on May 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed

Sounds to me like an ulnar nerve issue, but I’m no doctor, just someone who had a nerve disease.

by mojowo11 on May 12, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm actually both

FP and I have an ulnar neuropathy where my last 2 fingers feel numb from time to time. Good thing I’m not a surgeon, huh? “Oh, sorry about that double amputation. It’s this damn ulnar neuropathy.” :)

Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on May 12, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had an ulnar neuropathy once

Then it turned out to be not so much an ulnar neuropathy as a rare variant of Guillain-Barre Sydrome. That was a bummer.

Also, I’m thinking really hard, but can’t figure out what FP stands for.

by mojowo11 on May 12, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's always his once and future teams

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Turn-about is fair play

Waino is just getting even – DeRosa struck a nerve in us last year

by D4 on May 12, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure they were

is that against the unwritten rules?

by Evilfrog on May 12, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

written & unwritten, I think

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

unwritten would be a baserunner caught stealing signs getting plunked

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, this shit is not only against all the rules

it’s moronic. binoculars, seriously? Even the Patriots were smart enough to use video cameras…

by chalk on May 12, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

electronic devices are what's against the MLB rules

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

so, i just sold back my books

$15 short of being enough to cover my summer tuition

sweet

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 12, 2010 3:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Congratulations

You must’ve gotten a much better deal than I used to when selling back my books, or, your tuition is much lower.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

probably the latter

i’m only taking one class. tuition is $220

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 12, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

indeed

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 12, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Smart.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

i get unsmart in the fall unfortunately

tuition goes to like 3.5K for 15 hours

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 12, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nonsense.

I think there’s a lot to be said about going to a 4-year college for 4 years and supplementing it with summar classes at a community college. You can save a few thousand bucks and lighten the load for each semester, allowing you to enjoy life a bit. Now, hopefully you have/are studying abroad, and I’ll declare you brilliant.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

3.5k... wow

my tuition was 45k a year. thanks scholarship!

by longhornscardinals on May 12, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

You got $205 for selling your books back?

I don’t remember ever getting more than enough to cover one night at the local bar…

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on May 12, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always loved book sell back time

beer money!

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

We always got hosed at book sell back time.

“I know this textbook cost $175 new and it’s obvious by the intact shrink wrap that you did not open it all semester, but we’ll give you $9.35 for it.”

Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on May 12, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

well I never paid for the books in the first place

so not only did I not read them, I got 9.35 for them too

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

man don't buy from the book store

my book for my next class is $175 new at the bookstore. i can get it from amazon for $22 used

"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."

by prophetjohn on May 12, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

It sounds like a socialist co-op, compared to University Book & Supply...

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

sadly, amazon debuted right at the end of my college career.

I did use it for some post-grad books though, and did save a ton!

Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!

by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on May 12, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

WOW!!!

There is a job for an archaeologist for the Army Corps of Engineers in ST. LOUIS!!!!!
:=8D

I should totally put in for this job – can the Gateway City survive a MooCow invasion?

;=8)

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on May 12, 2010 4:20 PM EDT reply actions  

yes,

but can Imo’s?

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

The real question:

Could the city’s archaeological sites survive the stampede of your hooves?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me Stamp Nicely....

;=8)

But if they let me I would show up to every single home game in full cow costume, with a brew in one hoof and a brat in the udder!

:=8D

Big McLargehuge!
:=8O

by The MooCow on May 12, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

city's archaeological sites?

are those usually marked with chalk?

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's one of these bs guvmint jobs...

the only relic to be found in Missouri is LaRussa…

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Huh...

Cahokia Mounds, I’m guessing?

"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols

by splhcb67 on May 12, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

ACOE.....

I would guess something to do with the river.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 12, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, sure, if you use logic.

(hangs head, returns sadly to peeling potatoes)

"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols

by splhcb67 on May 12, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lineup via FSNMW tweet

Schumaker 2B
Ludwick CF
Pujols 1B
Holliday LF
Freese 3B
Molina C
Stavinoha RF
Ryan SS
Lohse P

by mstreeter on May 12, 2010 4:44 PM EDT reply actions  

No Greene 'til Brooklyn

All righties against Wandy. Except Skip, so we’ll put him leadoff. Right-handed hitting and decent-fielding Tyler Greene…stay on the bench, you.

Jobu needs a refill

by lightbulb on May 12, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, i don't get it

or stav.

yadi catching is interesting – wonder who larue will catch, or if he’ll just get skipped this go-round.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's your typical TLR head-scratcher.

I just don’t understand why he would bat Skip leadoff against a lefty, especially one with such a killer curveball. And, Stav in the field is not pretty.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

in this game, assuming lee is playing

at least stav won’t be the worst defender out there. still rather see colby since we’re not going all righty. if not colby, then mather.

stav seems to have a knack for pinch-hitting, which is a difficult task that maybe apu wouldn’t even be good at. i’m all for stav being manny mota for us, but putting him in the field is asking for trouble, especially with your least groundball-throwing pitcher on the mound.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is too un-TLR... must be some other reason we don't know about...

Greene’s dog died or something.

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Offense should have a spark tonight..

…Y’know why?

Cause I hit a homer in slow-pitch last night. It was gorgeous. Liner to left-center. I love havin’ mass on my side.

Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.

BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS

Hey Houston,
Suck it; you suck

by vexedtechie on May 12, 2010 4:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Marlins down one, top ninth, 2 on, HanRam up vs Marmol

ATG

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 4:55 PM EDT reply actions  

alas, Hanley.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still

with the unfortunate win, the Cubs are a mighty 8-8 at Phil’s Corner Tap. And to think that the first six weeks of the season is the easiest part of their schedule.

by Michael_68_1999 on May 12, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone else think the AP is full of idiots?

How in the hell do you vote to re-vote the ROY in order to just vote him back in as ROY? Are these people retarded? I really want to hear some logic to this decision.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on May 12, 2010 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

the squeaky wheel gets the grease

I imagine the few loud objectors changed their vote, while the majority kept it the same. His number of votes decreased, just not enough

Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")

by STLRegalia on May 12, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The best part is that...

Laurinaitis went from one vote to none. Cushing gets busted, and Laurinaitis gets swept off the tally sheet.

Franklin !#@$!&*%#

by guayzimi on May 12, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Other way around

Laurinaitis went from zero to one in the revote

by bailorg on May 12, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think some were concerned about the precedent about revoting and/or revoking old awards after the fact....

especially in light of other recent NFL award winners who tested positive, like Peppers and Merriman.

by Willie McGee's Twin on May 12, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

in the nfl you're also not eligible for the pro bowl if you test positive that year

according to what i read, so they must have changed that after merriman. i believe you are not eligible for any awards either, though obviously the nfl doesn’t control the AP awards.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

rocks just knocked halladay out

more injuries though – ruiz and mora left the game, as did tulo the other night. cargo back from bereavement leave though, and hawpe back – cargo gets his third hit off roy, and hawpe puts one off the wall. 10 hits off roy, and 3 philly errors.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 5:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Baron, couple of things:

- “Tyler” is such an amazing song. I’m not one to listen to songs several times in a row, but all of that changes with “Tyler.” More people should get to know The Toadies.

- I love the phrase “The Citadel.” I don’t know why.

- I like the sound of Seth Blair if he’s like Joe Kelly. I’d nearly always rather have the guy with electric stuff and erratic command, especially at the draft stage of the game.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 12, 2010 6:02 PM EDT reply actions  

I saw The Toadies in Dallas a while back.

I remember it being their “farewell show.” Are they really no longer a band?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I saw them somewhere in Texas (Houston?) way back in the day

They were opening for The Butthole Surfers. Some of the crowd up near the stage were being real assholes, throwing stuff on stage and such. The lead singer was really cool about trying to diffuse the situation, and very funny about it too. Also, the music was pretty good….

The singer for the Butthole Surfers proved that his reputation as a monumental dickhead was well earned. Before they ended their set early because of beer being thrown on stage, he urged the crowd to beat the shit out of whoever was doing the throwing. Sure he’s got a right to be pissed, but urging a drunken mob to commit an act of violence like that? WTF?

Anyhoo… GO BIRDS!

by BTown Birds fan on May 12, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's pretty bad

mob mentality can lead to a bad outcome there… and its a Butthole’s show, anyway, aren’t things supposed to be thrown onstage?

babip giveth... and babip taketh away

by purple_haze on May 12, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

According to Wikipedia,

they’ve been back together since 2005 and released an album in 2008.

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on May 12, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, I saw their first "farewell show."

Awesome.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on May 12, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

mos def

I get a serious pixies vibe (always a good thing)

for rb’s playlist, I’d say it’s closest to “Monkey Gone to Heaven”

Master of Typos

by YesWeOquendo on May 13, 2010 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL...Eric Byrnes

is playing slow pitch softball now that he’s released.

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 12, 2010 6:16 PM EDT reply actions  

He went 1-3 in his last game.

If he can’t even crush the ball in slow pitch softball…

babip giveth... and babip taketh away

by purple_haze on May 12, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

he just needs to adjust to the league

i think he has all-star potential, and probably buys all the beer.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well that's awesome actually

The part that isn’t was that whole suicide squeeze thing… that’s probably how I will always remember him.

God speed Mr. Byrnes.

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll always remember him knocking himself out running full speed into the

wall during his short stint with Colorado

Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot

by TomCat009 on May 12, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

olivo walkoff homer in 10th

his 6th, and 5-5 on the day. this after jim tracy got tossed – i had never seen the man pissed before. still waiting for tony to get tossed…

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 6:28 PM EDT reply actions  

reply fail that one was for you

Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot

by TomCat009 on May 12, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm not sure he even started today

maybe tomcat knows, but i thought he came in due to injury.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

and Roy does

not have a triumphant return

Stats are like a girl in a bikini, both would agree that Joe Morgan is an idiot

by TomCat009 on May 12, 2010 6:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Awesome avatar pic.

Did you take it?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 12, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

nice

oh yeah, forgot the roy connection out there – you or your buddy, iirc, caught him in a basement once?

you guys gotta quit getting injured. and cargo is pretty impressive.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on May 12, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Basketball converstation.

And Skip is leading off against a lefty.

"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro

by Toppins on May 12, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Walkoff homerun

by baseball’s most badass catcher not named Molina

by chalk on May 12, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder what the most pressing need to draft is for

more starting pitching? position players? I bet Mo wishes he knew more about the chances of signing Pujols

he is a bit eccentric

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 12, 2010 6:58 PM EDT reply actions  

extreme closeup of skip

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 7:34 PM EDT reply actions  

i don't know who that girl is but i'm not sure she's human

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

will leitch is on tv

pan down so we can see his pants

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on May 12, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

i like Ficociello

switch-hitting 3B with Scott Rolen arm AND signable? sign me up

Alvord and Yelich don’t seem to be worth the risk that they would command…..

Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog

by stlcardsfan4 on May 12, 2010 8:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Game Thread

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on May 12, 2010 8:21 PM EDT reply actions  

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