Astros, Again
by DanUpBaby on May 11, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
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Michael Bourn is one for his last 13. This isn't a huge problem for Michael Bourn—he led the league in stolen bases last year, he's on his way to doing it again this year (should Yadier Molina's newfound love for base theft continue to increase linearly, and not exponentially), and as a center fielder his .366 on-base percentage remains more than sufficient to keep him in starting lineups for years to come.
It's bad news for the Houston Astros. It meant that when Baseball-Reference updated its OPS+ numbers Monday morning, the only player with a league-average number, a number over 100, was Felipe Paulino, a starting pitcher the Cardinals' pitching staff will just miss having to face.
The Astros, having been built like a better team than they were for a while now—they're the team the Cardinals might have become had their MV3 strategies continued to drift listlessly down the path where Mozeliak was dropped off in 2007—have a strange, difficult route back toward year-to-year solidity. They're reliant on cheap players who are neither all that young nor all that good—Jeff Keppinger, et al—cheap prospects who have not met expectations—J.R. Towles, Hunter Pence—expensive players who are either not good enough to build around or simply not sufficiently built-around—Lance Berkman, Roy Oswalt, Carlos lee—and expensive players who, Kaz Matsui, seriously? Pedro Feliz?
I'm 23. The Astros were my Mets. I didn't like them as a team, or their dopey ballpark, or even the players I'd otherwise have loved—Craig Biggio, Bill James's idea of a perfect baseball player; Jeff Bagwell, an inexplicably fleet-footed slugger; Billy Wagner, the create-a-player version of a closer. I didn't get excited about it when the Cardinals were going to Houston, or the Astros to St. Louis; I wasn't especially happy to see them on TV. They (my ineffable hatred of they, really) made my baseball life incrementally worse. I'm calmer, now, and the Cardinals have since won a World Series in my lifetime; it's probably the first and last real rivalry I'll experience as a baseball fan. And even now, with all that firing subconsciously whenever I catch a glimpse of their ugly uniforms, I am distressed to see them in this state.
Our SBN sister site, Crawfish Boxes, have of late been going unenviably through a lot of trade-related scenarios, which are definitely worth a look. It seems like the Astros of 2010 have left themselves with three choices: blow up the team and trade its stars; don't trade the stars and then blow up the team when their contracts run out; or throw Bud Norris at the Cardinals three times a series and trade him to the Cubs for Starlin Castro after he goes 17-0.
Something interesting at the Globe-Democrat yesterday, re: player numbers.
Just why would Jay, who had worn 68 in spring training, be assigned a number previously worn by one of the greatest Cardinals in recent memory?
"We're just trying to squeeze them in at this point," Rowan said. "Tony (La Russa) will say something if a guy is in the 60s. He has said it before to me and we have had to change guys out. So I try to solve that in the beginning and go ahead and change them. Jon Jay at 68, I just don't think it looks good. Me personally, I don't like having guys in the 60s out there."
Player numbering is an arcane process, and one that has not been altogether amenable to my favorite players over the last several years—16 has bounced around the starting lineup, and 15 went briefly to Matt Holliday in the year Jim Edmonds was actually retired. But it was a weird feeling to get a look behind the curtain of things that had been pressed upon me subliminally:
"That's quite a few numbers that aren't available," Rowan said. "You look and see what you have left. Certain numbers like 30, 31, we always consider those pitchers numbers."
No, no, no—I consider those pitcher's numbers! I alone, through my own mental processes! It's difficult to learn I'm not a unique and delicate flower in so public and final a way, but I suppose I had to learn it somehow.
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The Astros = Forgotten Rivals
Agree with your comments about them being our most legitimate rivalry over the past 15 years. The NL Central has belonged to the Cardinals and Astros for the entirety of its existence so it’s a little sad to see the Stros’ in the type of shape they are in.
I can’t help but think they’ve simply hoped for too much out of players like Pence and they clearly invested way to much into Carlos Lee.
Big Puma is an excellent hitter (better than Ryan Howard for instance) but he is getting old now and can’t be depended on like he once was.
Roy Oswalt still scares the crap out of me, but he’s trade bait at this point.
Puma's Age
As a word of warning, Berkman is 34, or, at about the halfway point age-wise of what Holliday and Pujols will be in their respective new contract and forthcoming new contract.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
34 will still be early in pujols contract
he likely won’t sign it until he’s 32
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
But the Maching is immune to the effects of aging!
Amirite! Amirite? Somebody please tell me I’m right….please?
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
kind of hoping
that this season isn’t early signs of decline
of course, we should still be able to expect elite production (.380-.410) in the first couple/few years of his decline
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
That would be January of 2012
three months after he becomes a free agent. If that’s the case, I hope he enjoys the AL West.
okay, let me rephrase
he likely won’t begin playing under his new contract until he’s 32
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
probably because they are the only team
that (a) will likely need a 1B, and (b) can afford pujols
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
don't they have morales?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
If I were them?
Probably Morales
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
The marginal gain from Morales to Pujols isn't going to be worth the difference they pay for production
If I were them, I’d rather have Morales + $15 million to spend on other players than just Pujols
As Cards fans, though, we derive a greater utility out of seeing Pujols remain a Cardinal, so that it absolutely WOULD be worth the extra money we play. Plus, we don’t have a replacement
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
ha, you didn't have to explain yourself, i was just kidding.
but good response.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Is it?
I guess it’s sort of redundant. I’ve studied too much Economics in the past week
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
well, i just mean that Pujols
is much more than “marginally” better than Morales
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
No, not marginal in that it's small
Marginal in that it’s from one step to another
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
once you include the other player that you save money on
then it’s marginally better
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd guess they end up with gonzales
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
why would they want 2 all-star caliber first basemen?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Starlin Castro makes three errors in a game...
including one in the eighth where he let a roller get past him then took his sweet ass time retrieving the ball from left allowing the runner to reach second. He was then serenaded with loud boos in his home debut.
Bee U Tiffle.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
Also,
Alfonso Soriano has taken the 20-year-old, who doesn’t speak English, under his wing.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
Also, Alfonso Soriano has taken the 20-year-old, who doesn’t speak English, under his wing
Soriano can teach him the strikezone. That should be good for some massive lolz
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Video....
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7951697
That is an awful display. The throws are just sort of blind slings in the direction of first… If they had any sense they’d send him back.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
Speaking of young NL Central SS's
Hows the kid from Milwaukee doing?
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
ohhh I dearly hope he sees Boog and tries to spin.
he’ll tangle up but quick.
of course, I dearly hope Boog still thinks the cubs are the enemy, and doesn’t tell him anything useful.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
He just needs a few more years to develop...
as was continually said about Dunston.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
let's not have too much fun at Starlin's expense
I remember a few times last year when a player took an extra base on Rasmus, when he didn’t hustle too much. Kid’s learn, though I will admit that’s a lot more difficult when one is a Cub.
Some of us got on Rasmus for this too...
While it is true that “kid’s learn” – hustling, paying attention to the runner, and making sure you’re set so you can make an accurate throw are things one should pick up, at the latest, in high school.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Or in Rookie Ball
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
What's funny about that
aside from the bad defense and strikezone mentoring, is that Soriano has a big reputation as a night owl. Loves to go out, try out restaurants, etc.
No one has said it hurts his game, but it’s interesting.
The Cubs don't have an infield guru
and people already think Lou probably isn’t happy about Castro being here. So this could be pretty interesting.
you're 23?!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
You didn't know Dan was in his college years when he took over VEB?
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I feel so inadequate
All I’ve managed to do is make a sizable contribution to the amount of porn moved across the internetz.
Hey
I’m working on founding my own porn company. Thanks to guys like you sdrone lol
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
I read that like the start to an VEB Anonymous meeting.
“Hi guys. I’m Dan and I’m 23.”
Think; It's not illegal yet.
you sound a little too familiar
with how those type of meetings go…
Chicago Cubs: The first century was funny...this second one is just sad...
Hi, Dan. [/polite applause]
mob16151 in the corner >"We’re out of F*cking coffee’<
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
by mob16151 on May 11, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Alternately
Hi, Dan. [/polite applause]
/stab (gurggle gurggle final exhale of breath) member sitting next to spants
Think; It's not illegal yet.
by azruavatar on May 11, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Someones never been to Buffalo lol
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
I think they did one time
BUT IT WAS A HORRIBLE IDEA OH MY GOD ALL THE BLOOD
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And the coffee sucked
HARD
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
hehe
That reminds me of the Cheers episode where Sam goes to the sex addiction meeting, hits on the another attendee.
Vampires Anonymous always generously offered
to clean up after the Stabbers Anonymous meetings.
by mojowo11 on May 11, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
why wait till after?
why not just get rid of the blood before the meeting even began? Much cleaner that way
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
You should ask VEP how old he is
Than you are really in for a shock
by FlimtotheFlam on May 11, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep, I'm a disappointment to society.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
nobody's told him yet...
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
when I was 23
I had just graduated from art school and proceeded to go on a summer long bender
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The Astros, having been built like a better team than they were for a while now—they’re the team the Cardinals might have become had their MV3 strategies continued to drift listlessly down the path where Mozeliak was dropped off in 2007
Wow. But for the grace of Moz.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
that quote in the G-Dem piece is so typically Boog, I'm laughing.
can’t win for tryin’, can he.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
reminds me of a newish Cardinal fan friend of mine.
He hates the Astros. That’s his rival, because that’s who the Cardinals were locked in battle with during his early years as a Cardinal fan. Whereas if you are born and bred in STL, you hate the Cubs no matter the year… it must be in the water.
I’m not saying either approach it better or worse, just saying that I have noticed that myself.
Future Redbirds! www.futureredbirds.net
Rams Gab! www.ramsgab.com
Spend some time in Houston
You develop the ability to severely dislike the Astros real quick, primarily because of their fans.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
How can anyone hate Astros fans? For their apathy?
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Quite easily
They bring signs that say “Die Darryl Die” to Opening Day against the Rockies (the year Darryl Kile left Houston to sign with Colorado) and shout worse things about his family.
They flood sportsradio with ridiculous statements, trying so hard to make themselves the Cards’ primary rival.
They don’t show up unless the team has been winning, and then they don’t watch the game.
They leave playoff games after 8 innings even though the game ends up going 11…to get home early (from an afternoon start!).
Astros fans are Texans fans who can’t get tickets to Reliant Stadium.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
"Die Darryle Die"
was a German fan saying
“The Darryl The”
"Who is the most underrated actor of all time?" - Charlie
"That's easy - Dolph Lundgren" - Mac
by Green Man! on May 11, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And no one who speaks German could be evil
by bailorg on May 11, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
heh nice
always love my cape feare
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
Considering Die is the feminine version of 'the'
that would be considered an insult still
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I would actually resepct Astros more if they gave a shit.
Does sports radio here even discuss the Astros? All I hear about is Brian Cushing.
It’s true they are complete bandwagon fans. And no one actually watches the game at the stadium. (How could you with all the music and fake prompts from the DJ? It’s like a f’ing NBA game.)
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
the nun passed away
good thing she’s moving on to better things
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I think it's really more a trait of Texas itself rather than Houston.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
As the said "Cardinals fan friend"
let me say that I also hate the Cubs. But just about everything concerning the Astros irks me, starting with that ridiculous ballpark. There’s no way that its even 300 feet to left!
by tireinhardt6 on May 11, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
starting with that ridiculous ballpark. There’s no way that its even 300 feet to left!
I dunno watching people play that Hill can be good for some massive lolz
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
I grew up a Cardinals fan,
but I never hated the Cubs. I cannot stand the Astros for the reasons discussed: the park, ugly uniforms, the division races, the playoff series, Bagwell’s facial hair, signed Clemens and Pettite, and more. I didn’t have a dislike for the Cubs, really, until 2003, at college, when the fans came out of the woodwork. I was like, “I’ve been wearing Cardinals stuff around campus for over two years and just now you people start heckling me? Seriously?”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I was born and raised in St. Louis and I'm in the same boat
I hate the Astros far more than the Cubs. My feelings toward the Cubs can be best described as “schadenfreude”. I take joy in Big Z’s and Lou’s meltdowns, the inevitable massive blown leads under the hot, summer sun at Wrigley, the laughable efforts to “break the curse”, and the yearly lamentations of seeing no joy at Wrigleyville in October while seeing the Marlins (twice!), Red Sox (twice!), White Sox, and of course the Cardinals win championships in recent years.
On the other hand, I hate the Astros with a passion. I hate their monstrosity of a ball park, I hate that god-awful music they play at their ball park, their inability to pick a couple of team colors and stick to them, I’m inflamed by the presence of (politician’s name redacted), and of course many of the players who have worn their uniform over the past few years.
it was mentioned somewhere else
but central illinois is 50/50, so us cards fans have to put up with cubs fans all year long. The Astros were more of a challenge that a hatred for me. I’m so sick of ‘W’ flags and songs after every win that sometimes I think it might lead to violence
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
This is the frontier effect...
It’s like in the old west where anti-Indian sentiment was strongest on the frontier where white and red interacted… or in the Balkans where Islam and Christianity collide. People on the edge are always more extreme in their hatred.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
I live in central Iowa and
the Cubs’ AAA franchise, the Iowa Cubs, is in Des Moines. Cubs bars outnumber Cards bars 100-to-1 (I honestly only know of a single Cards bar). Yet, I don’t really mind the Cubs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You are in the heart of it though
I think if I lived in Chicago I wouldn’t mind the Cubs, I live in So IL and just enjoy watching them lose because they are in the NL Central and I want to win the Central by as big of a margin as we can. The Stros though were for me in the early 00’s what the Shirt untuckers were the last couple of years, just an annoying team that I hoped everyone would beat. Shoot I even want the Cubs to beat up on the brewers and the Stros most of the time.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I wonder if kids today will hate the BoSox?
I can barely watch any other mlb games, unless I’m rooting against a team… or for a player… I don’t exactly “Like” any other team…
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
I dislike the BoSox almost as much as the Yanks
and it has nothing to do with the 04 WS and alot to do with my favorite AL being in the AL East.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I liked the Red Sox before 04
I would have even gone as far as to say they were my favorite AL team. But the amount of bandwagon fans that sprouted up after that year made me want to burn Fenway to the ground. Eff ’em.
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
me too
my second favorite team growing up. I loved Dwight Evans SO much.
now I’d like to burn the whole damn stadium to the ground, with the team in it ( and probably Dewey, too!).
I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!
c'mon, not dewey
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
AL? What's that?
I don’t even recognize it as a league, let alone have a favorite team from said league.
I'm with you.
As soon as they get rid of the DH, they’ll show up on my radar.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
yeah, I haven't seen a game in 3 years,
and so of course, when I’m supposed to come home to visit this summer, they’re playing Seattle. I hate inter-league games, and it’s the only series that I’ll be able to see while home. Needless to say, I’m a little pissed that I have to watch them play the Mariners. But a game is a game I guess.
Did I mention that I have commissioner
box seats for the first game of that series?
I’ll be there fore all 3, and the first 2 of the A’s
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
photo or i don't believe you
…wait…nevermind.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'll get to catch at least one game.
Not sure where we’ll be sitting, as the future father-in-law is in charge of acquiring the tickets. I’m jealous about the commish box seats though.
which I think,
in the true spirit of interleague, (I can’t believe that I’m aboot to type this) they should. Interleague was always billed as giving fans of the opposite leagues a chance to see a style of ball and teams they don’t get to see, play.
I think, that they should use the DH in NL parks, and no DH in AL parks.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
The Phils will get to experience AL ball
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow...that sucks for
the Jays. Talk aboot losing a lot of cash. That stadium would have been packed for at least one of those games.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
so no return to toronto for halladay
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
word is, no one wanted to see the international incident when
a traveling phils fan projectile vomited on angela merkel.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on May 11, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the fan or merkel?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
Boston loves the Red Sox
It really is a close, tight-knit baseball town, that truly cares about (and lives and dies) with its team. Tough not to like them.
I like Theo too. He’s a smart guy and a good interview.
Seems like Cards fans would feel a kinship with Red Sox fans….their best, recent players were steroid users too! (zing!)
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, see my problem isn't with the Red Sox or their true fans
its with their fake fans. they have so many terrible bandwagon fans that it makes you hate all fans and the whole damn team
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Tough not to like them.
I’ve persevered and found a way.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
by azruavatar on May 11, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
This
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
And yet, I hate them more than any other team in baseball
other than the Phillies
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
i want the cubs to be good
because it’s that much more sweet when the cards beat them. i want the astros to fall off the face of the earth
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I too grew up in central IL, and saw the 50/50, but
I don’t remember growing up hating Cubs fans. It was more a matter of mildly amused pity. If I may quote what I wrote some time ago on the theme:
My feelings about them are much as I might have for a badly neglected, abused, half-starved, disease-ridden dog whose bestial, sub-human owner has done gross and awful things to it. You’d pity such an animal if it wandered into your yard and collapsed, wouldn’t you?
And then take it to the pound to be euthanized.
Incidentally, the worst thing about Houston fans (as opposed to their park, which I actually found to be reasonably nice apart from the abomination in center field) is that they act as though they’re trying to be Cubs fans. Nowhere else in my continuing tour of MLB parks have I found fans who combine fundamental cluelessness with booing a small kid who catches a home run, hit by the opposing team, and won’t act like a Cubs fan and throw the thing back. That ball is the souvenir of a LIFETIME for that kid. Shame on any fan that won’t let him keep it.
StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.
by StanTheManFan on May 11, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I too grew up in C IL, and I come from a family that has both Cubs and Cards fans...
needles to say the intelligent members of the family are Cards fans.
I will say, that in general, C. IL Cub fans are more tolerable than Chicago fans, but then again, few central or southern Illinoians claim Chicago, and few can tolerate people from Chicago, Cub fan or not. I don’t hate many Cubs fans, but I do enjoy bad-mouthing them and I enjoy the rivalry. My sister and I enjoy talking smack to one another. It’s a family tradition, the talking of smack.
Grew up in St. Louis
and cannot say that I truly hate any NL team; I have a dislike for most of the NL teams, but no true hatred. Really, the only team that I can say I hate are the Yankees and their 27 WS wins. That’s over 25% of the championships! F* them and their huge budget!
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on May 11, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
see
it’s a complex level of hatred for everyone. i don’t like any other team in the NL that much. but going to school in wisconsin has increased my hatred of cubs and brewers fans. used to hate hate hate on the astros and that stupid Enron field and those horrible uniforms and brandon f’n backe.
but when you deal with HURFDURR brewers fans who come out of the woodwork anytime that team sniffs .500 and the north-shore suburb kids who wear cubs garb and stare at my colby shirt in exasperation…gahh so much hate. it’s amazing this year, however, how quickly the cubs apparel disappeared from around campus.
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
Try growing up a Cardinals fan on the north side of Chicago
Seriously, though, don’t try it. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone — though, I guess, it’s still better than being a Cubs fan.
The Astros to me
Are like your high school rival that you run into 5 years after graduation. Where he gained 100lbs and is working at the local gas station. You just keep your head down when you pay for the gas and try not to make eye contact. You feel confused to see the guy you used to hate so much become so damn pathetic.
by FlimtotheFlam on May 11, 2010 9:14 AM EDT reply actions 17 recs
funny, cause i was working at the gas station and swore this douche bag from high school was ignoring me
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Resident malcontented betamale
Haha... Perfect!
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
This is the guy who
you have a life-altering experience with, like you wind up having to kill a few hundred zombies, with him at your back, and afterwards he becomes your best friend (because the zombies ate your old best friend).
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on May 11, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't piss down the throat of the Cubs if their heart was on fire.
Nor would I live with the Astros if the world were flooded with piss and they lived in a tree. MIL, CIN, and PIT are just pissers, and I dislike them too.
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
Agreed.
If you’re from Central Illinois you REALLY learn to hate the Cubs, I should add. Especially if you went to college with a lot of Cub fans from the suburbs.
The Astros suck too. They don’t get a pass either, though I don’t hate them quite as much as I did in 2004. Also, that 2004 Astros team was ridiculous.
by mattisnotfrench on May 11, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Cubs are Too Sad to Hate...
..its like hating someone’s mentally challenged kid brother: you know they are in for a long life of misery and will never achieve anything. Now, the YANKEES, on the udder hoof, who wantonly buy Championships left and right and drive small market teams into the dust because they can toss their money around like the evil Mr. Burns personification that they are, they earn my all-time hatred and scorn. HATRED AND SCORN!!!!!
:=8O
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Now, the YANKEES, on the udder hoof, who wantonly buy Championships left and right and drive small market teams into the dust because they can toss their money around like the evil Mr. Burns personification that they are, they earn my all-time hatred and scorn. HATRED AND SCORN!!!!!
I hate the BoSox far more than the Yanks. Could be because my gf is your typical red sox nation fan. AKA, the pink hat mafia.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
I Hear Ya....
…and they too are full of moolah and earn my scorn for actually beating my beloved Birdys in the WS. But for a loooooong time, they were all that stood between the Yankees and 16 straight Steinbrenner-bought championships. They’ve earned my SCORN, but I’ll reserve my hatred for the Yankees alone at this point. Maybe not alone-alone, I have a deep, never-ending hatred of the Dallas Cowboys too…
:=8P
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
I have a deep, never-ending hatred of the Dallas Cowboys too…
As a Buffalo Bills fan were in the same herd on this one.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
The Bills, eh
This video must break your heart.
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
Your lucky
I’m a peaceable man.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
49ers fan
my hate of the cowboys goes back to my childhood in the nineties, when it was either the Niners or Cowboys
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I fucking hate the Red Sox
I’ve been enjoying their struggles so far this season. I love that the O’s swept em.
Go Tampa….
The Cubs are never too pathetic to hate
I would hate them just as hard even if they were posting Houston’s record (which they’re not far from)
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
I can say from experience
that during the 80s and 90s when the Cubs were going through long stretches of suck, they were very easy to hate.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on May 11, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
the cubs have the same problem as the yanks
Now, the YANKEES, on the udder hoof, who wantonly buy Championships left and right and drive small market teams into the dust
If you hate the yankees for this reason, then you should have some scorn for the cubs (and the phils maybe). The difference is, the cubs have spent the millions and just failed miserably.
Personally, I can’t fault a team for spending their money. Wouldn’t fans label them as greedy them for holding onto the money? Their own fans would turn on them pretty quickly if they started pocketing the profit (cash cow?) instead of using on players. The fact remains the, cubs are inept – but it’s not because they aren’t spending.
Exactly...if you've got the money, use it
I have no problem with it. What I have a problem with is Red Sox fans who complain that the Yankees buy championships, when they have the second-highest payroll.
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
The Cubs:
No one has done less with more.
(I can’t remember where I first heard that or read that.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 11, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In light of our discussion yesterday,
I though folks might appreciate this humorous tidbit from today’s installment of Calcaterra’s And That Happened.
Ted Lilly took a no-hitter into the sixth but, in clear violation of baseball’s unwritten rules, the Marlins broke it up and won the game. Wait, correction: it was only a violation of Ted Lilly’s unwritten rules. Still, gotta have respect for (Ted Lilly’s) game, Marlins. Totally bush league if you ask me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Jurrjens reinjuries hamstring, will remain on DL
Except that it might be a different hamstring injury:
"It popped, and it’s not the same area of the hamstring," the right-hander said in a deflated tone. "When we get back to Atlanta I’ll get an MRI to see what’s going on."
Damn. Guy sounds despondent. He’s had injury after injury going back to before spring training. He must be wondering who has the voodoo doll.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on May 11, 2010 10:13 AM EDT reply actions
I read "it popped" as
“I poooped”
needless to say I reread, but I like the old way better
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on May 11, 2010 10:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
People doubted me when I said
At the beginning of the year that Molina would steal 12 bases. But you’re not laughing now, are ya? MUHAHAHA!
Hmm… need to work on my evil laugh.
I Only Caught the End of it....
…but on ESPN (why I had it one I dunno…) they were interviewing Pujols who had a lot of great things to say about Moolina, and who for all intents and purposes called Yadi our real team MVP, and the guy who cud be one of our best hitters. And this is coming from…well, our best hitter and de facto leader (I love saying de facto!). I have seen Yadi as an important cog in our Well-Oiled Redbird Machine of Cubs Death, but u gotsta wonder if we, and the League in general, don’t give Yadi as much credit as he deserves, especially in all the non-SABR things like ‘leadership’, and ‘presence’, and ‘heart’ and all the udder stuff that bean cownters can’t quantify.
Oh, and also MMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
:=8D
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on May 11, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He leads the league in SAB (smiles per at bat)
Also leading in JKAB (jewelry kissing per AB)
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
i've probably mentioned it
that charm he wears is one of the last things his father gave him before he died.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 11, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I've heard that
I’m not knocking his attachment to it, I just wanted to point out that he has a .987 JKAB.
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
he's rather alone in that stat
shouldn’t we glom it into jewelry chewing and mouthing?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 11, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
If we make a jewel mouthing stat, Ryan Braun would surely lead the league
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
by dan on May 11, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
we had to picture Ryan Braun
kind of killed the comments
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i was beginning to wonder
if Ryan Braun had ever dated Jewel :/
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
Is that his career line...
I know over the last couple of years his JKAB has been 1.000.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
by cardzfanbub on May 11, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
actually...
its 1.000 per pitch. Something close to 4.000/AB.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
by cardzfanbub on May 11, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
= P/PA
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 11, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly...
don’t have then number handy.
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
by cardzfanbub on May 11, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not people?!
I took your bet because I figured he’d steal more than that.
well, serves me right for trying to read.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 11, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's the thing with rivals
For the Cardinals, the Cubs rivalry has always seemed silly to me. The Cubs for a majority of their existence have been an ‘also ran’ team. Even the greatest teams in Cubs history of the late 60’s weren’t much of a rival for the Cards.
The Mets and Astros, however, had real bad blood. They had a reason to hate each other, to want to grind each others bones into dust. Until father time caught up to the Astros, these two teams DOMINATED the division. They hated each other, even got into flaps over who could fly a banner for winning something.
The Astros this decade were more of a rival than the Cubs have ever been. I don’t like the Cubs but to be honest, its their fans that I honestly can’t stand.
by Hardcore Legend on May 11, 2010 11:29 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
the Cardinals-Cubs Rivalry
Has more to do with location than record. The Cardinals were created so the Cubs will have a rival.
You Young Pups
Don’t know the heated rivalry of the 60s and 70s with the Scrubs. Banks, Santo, Kessinger, Fergie Jenkins and all vs Brock, Flood, Gibby, Maxville, Shannon, etc. Boy, the Cubs sure could collapse. What I hated most was their announcers … Jack Outhouse (Brickhouse) and Lou Beaudreau or whatever his name was. They were Alzheimers on air compared to Carey and Buck. Now, the Cubs are just annoying – more like mosquitoes than rivals. Any other old farts in the VEB house besides me?
SD
oldtimers unite
Yes, I remember the Jenkins-Santo-Banks Cubs, facing the Gibson-Boyer-Brock Cards. Good times.
More recently, but not recent, – hating the mid-80’s Mets
Now, hating the Astros’ awful stadium, but kinda feeling sorry for the aging overpaid remnants of a formerly competitive team.
I was around for that "heated rivalry"
and will stick to my contention that my feeling for them was more amused pity — “condescension” comes in there too — than anything else. The Cubs were simply too bad, too consistently, too long, to be worth hating.
Incidentally, having grown up in that betwixt-between region of central Illinois, I literally did not know a single White Sox fan. Downstate Illinois simply didn’t acknowledge the existence of the “other” Chicago team.
StanTheManFan
Contributes any way he can.
He's normally a nuclear physicist
Except when writing for this list.
by StanTheManFan on May 11, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
sad thing considering they are the "south siders"
I always found it funny that the white sox’s have less fans south of chicago than the north siders do
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
I have always liked them as my "AL team"
Big Hurt, Black Jack, Robin, One-dog, wilson alverez…those were the days. and I love that Homer Hawk. I would replace Al with Hawk every day of the week and Sunday
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I don't even know a single Astros fan.
Yet, they are still one of my least favorite teams. Same thing with the Giants (stemming from the 1987 NLCS).
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I won $25 off an Astros friend last year who bet me at the beginning of the year
that they would have a better record than the Cardinals. I tried to double or nothing him this year, but he wouldn’t take the bait.
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
'87 was a pretty intense NLCS, but the good guys won
and Will Clark came to StL and helped get the BotB into the playoffs in 2000. Success is the best revenge.
Jeffery Leonard, however, can fall into a Burmese tiger pit for all I care.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on May 11, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The 2002 NLCS was almost unbearable for me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
OK, yeah that sucked.
For some reason I just haven’t extended it to hating the Giants franchise. Dunno why. Bonds alone should be reason enough to dislike them. (shrug)
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on May 11, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i have managed to block out most of this.
all i remember is one play where fernando vina should have fucking scored.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Only if Brenly falls with him
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
that's why I hated the giants until recently
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
matty clearly does not give a fuck though
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
he's a good kid, even though he's always been a Cubs fan
I’m 99% sure that he became an Astros fans only because they were good enough to challenge the Cards while the Cubs sucked.
I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!
I didn't have much against the Astros
until Roger Clemens.
T. Greene for SS
by paposse on May 11, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I never much cared for Mike Scott
who just happened to be both a Met AND and Astro during his career. We didn’t play them as much back then, but I always seemed to get in arguments about who was better in the mid-80’s, Scott or Tudor.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
This just in...
Brian Fuentes sucks. Thank you, Mo.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 11:58 AM EDT reply actions
Seriously.
I mean, if we want a guy to throw behind a batter, we’re not going to pay much for him. (see: Mitch Boggs)
You can read it in any tone you like.
Remember back in December of 2009,
when TLR deemed Brian Fuentes the Cardinals’ number 1 target? And, he was saying things in a Q&A with Goold like this:
Q. When you describe this team as better on paper, is it your impression or is it your hope that you can satisfy that number one priority without the moving from what you guys have in place right now?
TONY LA RUSSA: Signing a free agent, right?
Q. Right.
TONY LA RUSSA: I know we’re talking to Fuentes. I don’t know if we’re going to get him. I know he likes our situation, we like him. It seems like it’s a perfect fit. So I don’t know. If we don’t get him, we’ll see what’s next.
Q. You talked to him personally, right?
TONY LA RUSSA: I was in the room when he came in to meet us. Plus I had a couple All-Star experiences with him. I mean, I know he’s first-rate.
Q. Did you get a vibe from him personally that the situation — that y’all’s situation appeals to him?
TONY LA RUSSA: Yeah, I think we had the advantage that we had three or four teammates that he spent time with that talked about playing for the Cardinals, pitching for Dunc, Marty, et cetera. So I think that part of it is — I just think it’s an economic issue.
Q. Are you willing or able or both to call that guy first choice? Is that an accurate characterization?
TONY LA RUSSA: From day one. He’s been the guy that fit us the best. You know, we have a strong right-hand relief core, whether it’s a veteran like Ryan, (Kyle McClellan) … or Brad Thompson or the two kids. A left-handed reliever, quality like Brian, from day one, he’s the guy who was our first choice. And I’m excited that here we are and we’re still in the hunt and he’s still available.
All I can say is, “Whew! Dodged a bullet there.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
God knows...
what he would’ve done with TLR and DD. They really are that good. He hasn’t even been that bad. 1/3 of his fly balls are not going to leave the park all year.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
He's making $9MM and has a vesting option that could lead to him making $9MM next season.
Not even LaDunc could make Brian Fuentes worth $9MM.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
His teams would be nothing but expensive pitchers and scrappy infielders.
You can read it in any tone you like.
He would be terrible.
Proven Veteran, Proven Veteran, Proven Veteran…
Speaking of Proven Veterans, when is Miles going to start getting included in the Future Redbirds roundup? Or, is he getting his own website, entitled, “Once and Future Redbirds”?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 11, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Are you kidding me?
How many times does he need to hand guys like Rasmus, Freese, Garcia, Ryan, and Schumaker starting jobs before he shakes this tag? And this is only the last two years.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
by guayzimi on May 11, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Roster construction or manager hand-outs?
I remember when TLR handed Ryan the starting job, when he had no one else to give it to. Cesar Izturis, Khalil Greene, then Brendan Ryan. It took two seasons for the job to be handed to Brendan. (Remember that Brendan only 105 games at SS last season.)
In 2009, TLR handed the third base job not to Freese, but to Joe Thurston. Then again, Freese was injured. (For my money, Allen Craig earned the job in Spring Training by destroying the ball. He could have played defense as well as DeRosa, but with offensive production.) It was only after the club didn’t re-sign DeRosa, that Freese was handed the job and it seemed to me that Mo was the one labeling Freese the frontrunner.
Rasmus was not handed the job of center fielder after a great 2008 Spring Training; he was sent to Memphis because Rick Ankiel was handed the job. Rasmus was not handed the job of center fielder in 2009. It was only after Ankiel got off to a slow start and never heated up against after running into the outfield wall that Rasmus was the center fielder by attrition.
Skip was a part-time player in 2007 who was handed the left field job in 2008 and then handed the second base job in 2009. I don’t know why or how a player like Skip gets handed a starting left fielder job in MLB, but TLR did it and, in doing so, opted for an outfield without Rasmus in it.
As for Garcia, I was shocked by that decision. But pleased. TLR deserves praise for that. Although, maybe he listened to Duncan, unlike during the ‘04-’05 Hot Stove when, rather than hand a starting spot to Danny Haren, TLR broke with Duncan and advocated trading Haren, Barton, and Kiko for Mark Mulder.
Just when I think Mo deserves a lot of credit for now giving in to TLR’s Proven Veteran preference, the Cardinals go and sign Aaron Miles…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on May 11, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
In defense of the decision with BOOG,
he wasn’t the most mature person when he came up in ’07.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Brendan Ryan's injuries played a much bigger role in playing-time decisions than his maturity.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Fair enough,
he still lost points with TLR though.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Brendan Ryan
still the only man to live in Tony La Russa’s doghouse and escape to tell about it.
while spinning.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm trying to think of someone else that escaped
And if we disqualify people who escaped via trade or free agency, then I think you’re right.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
I think it was Hardcore who pointed it out first
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
One wonders
how much this has to do with Ryan having the potential to be a crappy hitting middle infielder. Tony loves those guys (Weiss, Gallego, Miles, etc.)
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
TLR had one season w/ Ozzie
And he generally went with Clayton over Ozzie, despite Ozzie not being that great of a hitter by that point, and being a super-veteran. Plus, Ozzie’s GRIT was off the charts.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
This is misleading and myopic, IMO
Mo put Khalil on the team and that plan was derailed by Khalil’s mental issues. Ryan had been injured, and had sucked, previously.
Thurston was never TLR’s plan for third (once there was another available option, Joe went straight to the bench). Freese was hurt. Craig was in Memphis (which is roster construction). And Thurston was never a proven veteran either – he was a AAA’er who TLR took a flyer on playing, got a good month out of, and then went to the bench (and then wasn’t re-signed)
Rick Ankiel didn’t start out as a “proven veteran” – he was anything but that (as a pitcher or hitter). He was a talented, flawed player that TLR threw out there, who soared, and then came back down to earth. When he did so, Rasmus, another talented youngster played over him.
Skip played LF over other flawed players like Brian fricking Barton. You don’t think TLR wanted someone with real talent out there? Like him pining for Matt Holliday? Then TLR played Skip at 2B, where he was no proven veteran. Who was the alternative last year other than a FA (who TLR doesn’t control the signing of)? Thurston and Ryan were the altternatives, and they ended up playing other positions out of need.
Ultimately, your argument is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. Whoever is replaced is a de facto “Proven Veteran” merely by the fact that they were replaced – without regard to what circumstances necessitated their playing in the first place, how long they remained in the position before being replaced, or whether they started out as a “Proven Veteran” (or whether they were decidedly not a veteran when they started).
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with your characterization of my argument.
I don’t know that you followed the whole thread or saw what I was responding to, which was this comment from guayzimi:
How many times does he need to hand guys like Rasmus, Freese, Garcia, Ryan, and Schumaker starting jobs before he shakes this tag?
Characterizing how Rasmus, Freese, Garcia, Ryan, Schumaker as having been handed their jobs is just wrong. I rebutted this by giving a brief synopsis as to how each of them eventually wound up with a starting role, which was primarily by default, when other players didn’t work out. None of them was “handed” a starting role by TLR, as with other talented young players in other organizations. I was not using this to support my characterization of TLR as GM, but to undermine guayzimi’s representation of TLR just handing starting jobs to rookies, because that assertion just isn’t true.
Now, I’ll get off-topic a bit. I think that both sides of the TLR fence tend to give too much or too little credit to TLR in the overall roster construction. It’s a far more collaborative process than what I believe you have characterized it as by suggesting that TLR “doesn’t control the signing of” FAs. While it’s absolutely true that TLR does not control FA signings in the sense that he does not have the final say, I believe it also suggests that he does not have any input. He clearly does, as does Duncan, ownership, and Mo.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
lboros did a number of very thorough analyses...
showing that TLR actually plays the rooks more than the average manager. I’ll try to find these… Even if they weren’t “handed” the jobs, the bottom line is that in the last couple of years, rookies were given significant playing time. Period.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
that may have a lot more to do with his handling of the bench
the reason this whole thing springs up is because the Proven Veterans are the regulars and the rookies are warming the bench. who is terribly surprised by the details coming out of Colby vs. the veterans (don’t make me type the A word) last year? no one.
Tony’s good at rotating his bench bats into the game. ergo, more rookies get playing time. they also take that Memphis shuttle quite often. You can’t just say “period” and ignore what Tony actually does.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
The key element to this, however
is that TLR doesn’t manage for the Yankees, where he can have his pick of veteran players in every offseason. He manages a mid-market team that has purse strings. Because of that, he is going to have to play with the hand that he’s dealt.
If you honestly think that Tony would rather play young guys over mid-30’s semi-productive veterans, you’re going to have to show me where in his coaching career he’s been outspoken about young players coming up through the ranks. He left Oakland because they weren’t the big spending moneybags they were in the late 80’s and early 90’s. They were going in a different direction and you could make the case they’ve been just as successful grooming young talent as the Cardinals have been at utilizing veteran talent.
It’s one thing to believe in the premise of building from bottom up and another thing to state that a manager who likes to shuffle lineups actually ENJOYS playing the young guys and wouldn’t have it any other way.
He doesn’t play rooks because he wants to, he plays them because he has to. Which is why Bobby Bonilla is the most important injury in Cardinal history. Not that Pujols wasn’t going to get his shot at some point, but if Bonilla had been healthy that whole season, it’s unlikely that Albert gets called up before July.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I followed your argument.. I just didn't think your analysis was spot on.
Like I said, these “proven veteran” tropes are self-fulfilling prophecies.
And I didn’t say TLR has no input on FA signings; I said he doesn’t control them, as in he doesn’t make the final decision on whether FAs become Cardinals or not.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Because if he did....
And I didn’t say TLR has no input on FA signings; I said he doesn’t control them, as in he doesn’t make the final decision on whether FAs become Cardinals or not.
You have to admit we’d have a new veteran position player just about every season and a payroll north of $120M
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm fine with a payroll north of $120MM!
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You apparently like losing money....
because that’s what this team would probably do with a payroll of $120M.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Since you seem to make a living tearing up everyone else's arguments....
lets see how yours fares:
Thurston was never TLR’s plan for third (once there was another available option, Joe went straight to the bench). Freese was hurt. Craig was in Memphis (which is roster construction). And Thurston was never a proven veteran either – he was a AAA’er who TLR took a flyer on playing, got a good month out of, and then went to the bench (and then wasn’t re-signed)
You’re right, he wasn’t the plan. Troy Glaus was the plan. Only he missed nearly the entire season, yet came back and was inserted directly in the lineup until it was clear he couldn’t swing a bat effectively. All that, when we had another injured, defensively inept, veteran that we traded for mid-season. We could have called up Allen Craig, who was doing his best David Freese imitation at AAA last year. Do you honestly think that if Tony knew that Glaus was missing the whole season he wouldn’t have been pining for a veteran FA player? If not, what Tony are we talking about? Tony the Tiger?
Rick Ankiel didn’t start out as a "proven veteran" – he was anything but that (as a pitcher or hitter). He was a talented, flawed player that TLR threw out there, who soared, and then came back down to earth. When he did so, Rasmus, another talented youngster played over him.
Wait, Rasmus played with Ankiel came back down to earth? WRONG. Rasmus played when Rick Ankiel got hurt. Anything else is revisionist history. Ankiel’s whole 2009 campaign was “coming back to earth”, yet he and Duncan still played regularly in the OF up until the Holliday trade, when we had a perfectly good outfielder hitting the shit out of the ball in Memphis and playing LF. That player? Allen Craig.
Skip played LF over other flawed players like Brian fricking Barton. You don’t think TLR wanted someone with real talent out there? Like him pining for Matt Holliday? Then TLR played Skip at 2B, where he was no proven veteran. Who was the alternative last year other than a FA (who TLR doesn’t control the signing of)? Thurston and Ryan were the altternatives, and they ended up playing other positions out of need.
Here’s a fun question: If TLR owned the team and was in charge of signing players, who’s playing LF in 2008? It sure as fuck ain’t Skip Schumaker. Most likely it’s Barry fucking Bonds. Or did you forget the TLR lovefest with bringing in Bonds during that offseason? I’m going to guess that we’d never have heard of Ryan Ludwick if TLR owned the team, because he tried his best to platoon a guy with a career reverse split for most of the first half of 2008 while he was putting up a 1.000 OPS. If he had it his way, we would sign aging veteran players to fill out the roster every year, something that was done quite a bit during the Jocketty years. Reggie Sanders would be a prime example. If TLR was in charge, Molina doesn’t get a chance to catch on a regular basis until after Mike Matheny retires. He loves those old veteran guys. I seriously don’t understand how you could think differently.
You make it sound like guys you’re talking about were TLR’s decisions. They weren’t. They were the decisions of management telling him what his roster was going to be and him making the best of it. If Tony was the GM/Manager, we’d have a bunch of aging 34 year old players in their twilight platooning in the corner outfield and crappy, switch-hitting middle infielders who can play 8 positions.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
if Barry Fucking Bonds
was playing for the Cardinals in 2008, the Cardinals would have been in the fucking playoffs.
i don't know if i necessarily agree with this.
but my memory isn’t good enough to think of a lot of examples beyond the last two seasons. i would argue, however, that freese is a good example of Tony not necessarily preferring veterans. he was determined to be the starting 3B, and I don’t remember any media discussion about TLR wanting some veteran 3B in the offseason. and even after getting felipe lopez (quintessential switch-hitting MIF who can play 8 positions) Tony continued to start Freese almost every day. he’s played in 29/32 games, including starting at 3B in all but 2 games before Flip got hurt.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Again, we're giving Tony credit for something that Tony probably didn't do
Over/under on number of phone calls to Mo’s office about acquiring Mike Lowell in the offseason: 37. And you can bet your ass I’m taking the over.
Mo and Luhnow were the ones commenting on Freese all offseason, essentially telling Tony that this was the guy at 3B to start the season, come hell or high water. They then signed Lopez to a fantastic deal to be utility player/Freese insurance. I’ll give TLR credit for playing him a lot early this season, but how much of that has to do with Lopez being hurt the past 3 weeks? It’s hard to say.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
if we shouldn't be giving him credit for the roster
then we shouldn’t be faulting him for it, either. You can’t say that every DeRosa that was signed was only because of Tony.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
I'm not
I’m simply saying that if given a choice, Tony would sign the aging veteran every time, and put the young gun on the bench as insurance and rotate him into the lineup for 150 AB’s throughout the season. In the 80’s you could do this, in this day and age, you can’t.
Whitey was famous for throwing the young guys to the wolves and not cushioning their playing time, and it worked out great for those 80’s teams. Tony has a different way of doing things, and that’s fine, but let’s not call it something it’s not.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
aw, sbn'd.
i’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I don’t see how you can say for sure either way. his track record seems to indicate both that he will play the young guys a lot, and that he likes proven, veteran players. if the roster is largely out of his control, then there’s no way to know, really.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
His track record suggests
that when he’s got an uber-talented rookie that can play right away he’ll play that guy and not jerk him around, which is why he’s coached 6 ROY winners as someone pointed out below. If it’s a player that needs seasoning, he’d rather have the veteran than have that player learn on job, even if the learning-on-the-job rookie might actually perform better than the veteran. (See Foster, George over Bonilla, Bobby)
However, the reason he’s been able to do that is because he has a roster full of other veteran players he can count on for “veteran-ness” characteristics. If a rookie struggles, he has a track record of jerking them around quite a bit or benching them for indefinite amounts of time while going back to the veteran, even if that veteran isn’t performing much better.
I think he’s gotten better at this over the years, especially the past couple, but I think a lot of that has to do with him liking the Cardinal organization and wanting to stay here while the organization changes it’s focus towards player development.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I'm not following the point you're trying to make -
Re: Thurston – Yeah, Troy Glaus was the plan if he wasn’t injured. Duh. Are you talking about Craig at the end of last year (he sucked at the beginning), because he should have played over DeRosa after DeRosa got hurt? Craig wasn’t even playing 3B then, was he? And how is this relevant to Thurston (who was the topic of my point), who wasn’t even playing much at the end of the year? I don’t get your point other than TLR did give Glaus a shot to show he could play, and Glaus couldn’t do it. This makes sense, because, you know, Glaus was a really good player before he got hurt.
Re: Ankiel. We were talking about Rasmus vs. Ankiel, not Craig vs. other hitters in LF. Craig only started hitting in LF in Memphis, about the time we traded for Holliday. And Craig wasn’t going to play over Holliday. Again, I don’t see your point. I always hated Chris Duncan, so if your general point was that he sucked and shouldn’t have played, I agree. Of course, I think TLR and Mo recognized this, which is why we traded for a new LF.
Re: Schumaker. I understand your point to say that if TLR was in charge, he would have played Barry Bonds over Schu. Got it. BTW, I sure fucking hope he would.
The rest of your post is just generic “TLR loves bad, old veterans over better, younger non-veterans.” I don’t agree. Older players are in decline and younger players are on the rise. The fact that one replaces the other on some schedule where their respective talent levels pass each other by is unsurprising. I haven’t seen anything out of TLR that suggests that he’s doing anything other than trading out old for young when he assesses the younger one is better.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that there is something to handling
rookies with kid gloves as well. Not all rooks are Albert F. Pujols. A sink or swim mentality is not the best thing for a young guys career, IMO. For all this TLR played Ankiel and Lil Dunc over Colby last year, people seem to skim over the fact that Colby played in 147 games last year, while battling some injuries himself.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
147 games? How many of those did he play more than one inning?
So Taguchi played 143 games in 2005, but I would hardly call him a “regular”, since he only started 90 of those games.
Rasmus started 114 games last year, and my guess is that he’d have started half that many had Ankiel and Duncan been healthy all year. He would have been So Taguchi — spot starter, pinch-hitter, defensive replacement. That’s not good when he’s also your best defensive player by UZR.
TLR did play Ankiel and Duncan over Colby, until both determined they weren’t healthy enough to be productive. 11 of his 15 starts in April came in LF or RF, as Ankiel was patrolling CF. That changed after Rick bounced his melon off a wall for the second year in a row, because Ankiel couldn’t go, and Rasmus started in CF until he got hurt in mid-June, then split time with Ankiel in July out there before Rick’s awful PA’s cemented Colby as the best fit in CF due to his defense.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Did you miss
A sink or swim mentality is not the best thing for a young guys career, IMO.
Also, he had 474 at bats, 6 less than his updated Zips projection for this year.
It was also stated at the beginning of last year that they were going to use a 4 man rotation in the outfield.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
No I didn't
A sink or swim mentality is not the best thing for a young guys career, IMO.
And that’s a matter of debate, actually. I’m guessing you still like Whitey Herzog, and in his career, he had a habit of chucking new guys out there and letting them play. No “kid gloves”. He did this with players in KC when he was there (Willie Wilson, Frank White, Clint Hurdle, Dan Quisenberry) and again with the Cardinals (Tommy Herr, Willie McGee, David Green, Danny Cox, Andy Van Slyke, Terry Pendleton, Dave LaPoint, Ricky Horton, Neil Allen, Jeff Lahti, Kurt Kepshire, Vince Coleman, Jose Oquendo, Greg Mathews, Todd Worrell, Joe Magrane, Luis Alicia, Cris Carpenter (not Chris Carpenter), Ken Hill, Todd Zeile) Whitey would just put you in the lineup and expect you to perform. Some did, some didn’t, but at least you were gonna know in a hurry.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
So you don't want to look at
the plate appearances or the actual body of the post. Cool.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I have no idea what you're talking about
You seem to think that rookies “have to earn it”.
I think they should play from day one if they are the better player.
You are TLR.
I am Whitey.
Is this concise enough for you?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
There shouldn't have been a four man rotation last year
Colby should have started the year in CF and played as much as possible because he was the best CF on the team and his minor league numbers demonstrated that he could hit.
Duncan shouldn’t have played at all, and Ankiel might have been better off playing nothing by LF or RF to avoid running into inanimate objects.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
1 PA a game is 162 PAs.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and Colby had 474 last year,
and his zips projection for this year is 482. How is that not giving him playing time last year?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
hey, I never said he didn't get playing time
I never said he didn’t get playing time once Rick was injured, either. in fact I did manually dig through his PA’s to pretty much disprove that TLR was sitting him after his home runs. we found out later what his medical condition was, and even later what his personal issues were.
but just throwing a number out doesn’t tell me anything about those PA’s.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I guess I just don't understand
what point you were trying to get across with 1PA/ game = 162 PA’s.
Ank ended the season with less games and pa’s, obviously due to injury. All I’m saying, and we’ve joked back and forth aboot it in the past, and it’s been touched on here, but Colby had to earn his points. And he got plenty of opportunities to do so last year.That’s TLR, and I’m ok with that.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm just saying
putting out a number of PA’s does not tell me anything about where and when those PA’s are. since usage in specific situation is what they were talkin’ bout, this is not the definition of “opportunity” I think most are referring to.
every guy in that squad will tell you that pinch-hitting is not the same as starting.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That's why I linked
it to his projected number this year.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
...no Rick Ankiel.
and Colby is not a rookie anymore. I’m not sure it’s really applicable to what’s being tossed around.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
also, I mixed up my
numbers. 520 PA’s, 474 AB’s. Dude played quite a bit last year. BR has him at 114 games started, and 135 appearances. The bulk of his PA’s were, I would say, obviously not as a pinch hitter.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
520 PAs would be a hell of a lot of pinch hitting
he was obvsly playing entire games for at least part of the year.
(Cue discussion of how many 4 PA games constitutes a “regular”….)
didn't ank and dunc
both get a lot of playing time when they appeared on the scene (ank as an OF’er)? i know we are using them as vets to compare to young colby, but just wondering if, like colby, they got a lot of playing time when they showed up on the scene.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Barry Bonds would have cost $20M
regardless of what he says about “playing for free”. Brett Favre would play for free too, but he just happened to make $12M last year, which is tops among QB’s in the NFL. It’s a bullshit sentiment. I hate Barry Bonds’ Ego. Makes it hard to like Barry Bonds, Baseball Player. I’d rather have Schumaker at $400,000 and his numbers in ’08, he probably would have been worth about as much in WAR.
TLR loves bad, old veterans over better, younger non-veterans.
Can you point to where this was said? I don’t remember calling them “bad” or “old”. I just remember stating that said veterans certainly didn’t perform up to expectations, and god forbid we would replace those guys with players from the farm. Kinda like signing Cesar Izturis instead of just giving Ryan the job. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. How does that not scream “veteran over young guy” to you?
I haven’t seen anything out of TLR that suggests that he’s doing anything other than trading out old for young when he assesses the younger one is better.
I agree with this. But how long should we wait to determine when the younger guy is better? Should the veteran have to suck for 2 seasons in a row before we think about trading up to the young buck? Should the young guy have to wait forever being “handled” by the manager until he gets a chance to start. TLR loves playing around with lineups, but that’s no reason to call him a guy who’s “trying out new talent”. He’s trying to win every game, every night, and he only puts guys in the lineup that he feels he can trust, regardless of their level of talent.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Jim Edmonds would like a word with you
aboot your first point.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Did you just compare Jim Edmonds to Barry Bonds and Brett Favre?
Why don’t you go take a long leap off a short cliff then. Wow. Just WOW. I don’t remember Jimmy ever putting himself ahead of his team….
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
in addition to being unreasonably rude, this response is linguistically inept.
a cliff is not measured in length, so a “short cliff,” because of the dual semantic meanings of the word “short,” would be one that is not high.
taking a long leap off of a short cliff, therefore, would be unlikely to cause injury and might actually be kind of fun.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on May 11, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks
Rude would be comparing a nice man like Jim Edmonds to two selfish, me first guys. Talk about completely different individuals.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
regardless of the intent, it could not possibly be construed as a personal attack
on you.
even if you think riverrat’s comment drew a poor comparison, you can find a way to respond without attacking people.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
You definitely don't come off that way
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I think you did.
Go jump off a cliff is a great argument. Jest or not.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Barry Bonds wasn't going cost those extra millions just because he was used to them
You get paid for your expected performance, be you rookie or aging veteran.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
talking about completely different individuals
is also comparing favre and bonds, imo. i don’t agree with your characterization of favre, at all.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
green bay and minnesota trump a couple jets
by a long shot. i don’t even remember who the one or two were, or even if they are still with the team. and i believe they felt favre was playing to the detriment of the team, when it later came out that he was injured, went to the staff and suggested a change might be better for the team, but the staff decided to keep playing favre. i believe they were later slapped by the commissioner.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
You are correct.
They did try to hide the injury. New York was that desperate for the playoffs and/or Eric Mangini was that desperate to keep his job.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
i read that as he compared them as opposites
thought jimmy offered to play for league minimum?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
And then wound up with a $900K base salary plus incentives, I believe.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Figured since we're just throwing
names out there, that you’d like an example of a veteran playing for a dollar figure well below his last contract, while still having some value. Also, I’d take the bet that JEds defense would still be fair enough to offset a large chunk of Bond’s offensive value at age 42 or whatever he was, since we all know he would be a black hole wherever he played in the field.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
If Tony was the GM/Manager, we’d have a bunch of aging 34 year old players in their twilight platooning in the corner outfield and crappy, switch-hitting middle infielders who can play 8 positions.
I shortened this to “TLR loves bad, old veterans.” Shoot me.
Also, nothing wrong with trying out new talent. If you know what I’m saying.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't agree with this?
Because in every situation where he’s had some say, these are the players he goes after. Barry Bonds. Juan Gonzalez. Bobby Bonilla. Reggie Sanders. Larry Walker. George Foster. Dave Parker. Aaron Miles. Brian Fuentes. The list goes on and on and on and on and on. Some of those guys were good players (Sanders, Walker, Parker). A good portion of them were not or never even saw the field for the Cardinals.
I don’t see how you rationalize saying otherwise unless you’re revising history in some way. It’s abundantly clear he likes veteran players and would play them all the time if given the chance.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
In all of your examples though,
I think a GM signed or promoted those players. It wasn’t TLR’s decision. Sure he had input, but no one except the people in that room know how much.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Would it be convincing if I listed all the rookies who TLR played during all these years too?
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
don't try naming pitchers, like waino, though
because we all know that is dunc’s decision, unless it fits the tony-loving-vets narrative, as in the case of mulder/haren, and then it is tony’s decision.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Go ahead and use pitchers
I think you’re going to find that outside of Matt Morris and Rick Ankiel, you’re going to have a hard time finding rookie pitchers with 90+ innings. WW doesn’t qualify by the way — he started the season in the bullpen so that we could have Sidney Ponson in our rotation.
Duncan has all the say over the pitching staff, so you can be a smart ass about it, but I’m guessing Tony would tell you this point blank.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
tbh, i was being a little smart ass about it
it happens sometimes, but i’m working on it.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
so that we could have Sidney Ponson in our rotation.
Sooooper Genius
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
that thing with waino closing
worked out pretty well, though, so i wouldn’t fault dunc too much there – perhaps he foresaw a need.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
That must have been fucking incredible foresight
“Isringhausen is going to go down with an injury this year, so we’ll need a good closer. Wainwright is doing well in spring training, so let’s send him to the bullpen to become closer when Izzy goes down. Ponson to the rotation!”
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
if they coulda seen that coming
they coulda seen Mark Mulder’s fucking arm falling off….
by nota bene on May 11, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
well, tony didn't listen to dunc there
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
why he's a super genius
ineffectiveness foretold could have been his reason, though
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
in fairness
Ponson started 13 games, it’s not like TLR stuck with him all season. The guy that replaced him in the rotation was….Jeff Weaver. (Waino was already in the bullpen and Reyes was already in the rotation at that point.)
(I hazily recall that the Cards’ pitching situation in early summer 2006 was a wee bit desperate….)
I know, it's just something that in hindsight
looks like a complete WTF moment
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
IIRC
Ponson actually had a strong spring training. I could be wrong about that, but that’s my recollection.
And actually, as late as 6/2, Ponson was 4-0 with a 2.93 ERA. Mindboggling, eh? If anybody ever needed a better illustration of the inherent flaws in pitcher wins & ERA….
Go ahead
Stipulations:
- They had to start the season in that postion.
- They had to start at least 120 games.
- They had no previous major league experience or qualified as a rookie by service time.
Good luck. I mean really. Good. Luck.
Using these stipulations will make it easy for me to triple the number of players you can come up with.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
this is a little unfair because i bet rookies rarely start the season as starters
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
It's not supposed to be fair
I know the list he’s going to come up with. All those players are going to be all-star players.
I’ve had this argument before, and the one he’s making doesn’t stand up to actual evidence. He’s trying to revise history.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
How is it that you think most rookies are supposed to break the majors?
Only the special ones get handed the starting spot on a silver platter. Most have to go through trial runs, compete with incumbents and sit on benches.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
this.
the pool of rookies who actually begin a season as a starter is really small.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
yeah, the thing is, the reputation is built on what happens *after* they go through their cup of coffee.
the rookies that prove themselves don’t get playing time. the guys TLR likes do.
now, there may well be some great reasons for this, as with Allen Craig “not getting enough playing time.” the thing is, we never got a lot of those reasons. they’d just be yanked for no discernible reason, and yes, it was a huge pattern of behavior.
I think this whole thread is a little logically lopsided, bringing up what everybody else does. who cares? we’re evaluating what TLR does.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This.
I get tired of this argument from people who clearly haven’t paid any attention to what the man has done in his 28 years managing baseball.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
it matters somewhat what other people do
since part of the argument is that the way Tony does things is different.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
now that doesn't make any sense.
it’s been long enough that I can safely say this is not a Cardinals system. this is a Cardinals system under Tony La Russa, which is full of stuff that does not apply to the rest of baseball, because — if anything at all, from the business and dollars-and-sense standpoint — other organizations are not built like this.
if we’re trying to evaluate whether Tony favors veterans or rookies or any group of player, what everyone else does is immaterial. it’s like applying Earth gravity to the Moon.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
my take on TLR
(not that we need any more opinions in this subthread…..)
…is that TLR plays favorites. Vets vs. rooks is secondary, I think.
trudat.
it may be the other side of the “bench-use noise is in this sample” angle — veterans are more likely to be his favorites.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Tony has His Guys
and then there are the guys that end up In The Doghouse. There’s a lot of inertia to being on those lists; once you land on either one, it takes a lot to get off it.
I doubt there’s anybody on this board that would dispute that, regardless about how you feel about service time/longevity,
oh, there's plenty on this board that'll dispute
them’s gotta dispute what needs disputin’!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
all you have to do is say 'Scott Rolen'
/disputers suppressed
Master of Typos
by YesWeOquendo on May 11, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, but then this sub-thread would end in tears.
damn it.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm quite alright with the 1159-1034
record this team has had since TLR has come aboard. I don’t really care how he gets it done, tbqh.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
but the response was that TLR treats rookies the same way all managers treat rookies
or, in the alternative, that all managers like proven, veteran players over rookies. maybe Tony does favor veterans, I don’t know. my argument has been that the way TLR treats rookies seems consistent with the way rookies are generally treated, so why are we faulting him for that?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
because we're looking at criteria, and you're assuming his criteria is the same.
we’re looking at an aggregate of specific situations where there was Box A and Box B, and Tony chose Box A. repeatedly. the "repeatedly" part is the key.
this is not stuff you can average out, particularly as tom s. points out below, with the dearth of information. but over a decade, give-or-take, those situations add up.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i see what you're saying
but we really don’t know what anyone’s criteria actually is, let alone TLR’s. you can only look at what happens and try to see what the outcomes have in common. you create inferences, but not proof.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
the thing is, we're willing to cite actual instances.
the arguments against have largely been “everybody does that. period.”
I don’t see how this doesn’t mess with reality.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I mean, actual instances can be taken apart
they can be argued against. you can go anywhere from “consider the source” to “we didn’t have a choice at the time” to “look at his injury history”.
“everybody else does it that way” can hardly be argued against, and is misleading in context.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i cited actual instances, too, of other people doing it that way
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
circles!
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/5/11/1467024/astros-again#37282299
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
hmm
well i’m done anyway since i actually don’t give a fuck what larussa does as long as we win games. we’ve won a lot of games with him as manager – probably more than we would have without him.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
this is true
once the game begins, like any fan i question some of his in-game moves, but his reputation for holding a team together through 162 is deserved, imo.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Tell me
What has Tony been criticized the most for by players, media, and members of all the organizations he’s worked for?
Cuz I’ll tell you what, it ain’t playing too many rookies.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
its a populate perception
because of his vocal support of various vets. But if you look at his ACTIONS over words i.e. his choice of players during games, then I don’t think that TLR skews toward the vet side.
Its a shame that Allen Craig got sent down, but at least he was replaced by Jon Jay, who also deserved a shot at the majors.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
When Aaron Miles is starting at 2B
and hitting .200 for the month of June while leading off, I reserve the right to revisit this argument. :-)
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
If there is any man capable of elegantly and concisely unravelling my argument
it is Aaron Miles.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
If you want to evaluate TLR in a vacuum
then you could probably throw a lot of criticism at him that could apply to baseball management in general.
But while I do believe that TLR has a weakness for getting inexpensive career revivalism, I don’t really think he does it to the exclusion of young talent. Filling holes in this manner is legitimate.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
I don't think anyone on this side is saying it's to the *exclusion* of rookies.
we’re not arguing zero amounts, here. we’re looking at an aggregate of specific situations where there was Box A and Box B, and Tony chose Box A. repeatedly. the “repeatedly” part is the key.
and to tell the truth, I think Tony has mellowed in recent years. if we were saying, what’s he done lately, I’d be on the other side of the fence. but Brendan Ryan for one was blocked for two years straight — yes, there was the injury and the attitude, but I didn’t even know he was that good defensively, while guys like Ludwick who’d played with him in the minors confirmed they’d always known he was an asset. Colby the most-valued prospect coming out and saying he paid dues in the clubhouse because of playing-time.
and that, to me, is Tony ramping it down. I don’t think he has much of a choice these days — the memphis mafia is ready, and all the non-essential pieces have been traded away.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I mean, Khalil Greene, seriously.
even if it wasn’t Brendan Ryan, what about Tyler Greene? the org can and has put a lot of money where Tony’s mind was.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
certainly had a better year than we
could ever expect from boog. i think most everyone supported the move, and then whatever happened.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
well if rookies in general rarely begin the season as a starter
then its going to be really hard to find rookies that TLR managed that started the season as starters.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
The whole point of my rhetorical question is that it would not be convincing - exactly like your list of veterans.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The whole point of your argument
is trying to prove something that requires distorting a lot of evidence, mis-stating things that have been said publicly by the person in question, and revising history.
So I stand by my point. If you don’t like it, fine, stop arguing about it and go on your merry way. But I’m not going to stand for you to continue misleading the argument using poorly worded arguments.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
What do you think I'm trying to prove?
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Most likely that Tony doesn't play favorites
and that those favorites are nearly always veterans with a few, notable, All-Star exceptions.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
My argument is that....
TLR has an undeserved, and unsubstantiated reputation for generally “disliking” rookies and preferring poorer-performing “proven veterans” over them.
I think TLR plays the player he thinks is better, and this is borne out by playing time, not his verbal statements.
Moreover, TLR’s veteran-lovingness is overstated by bad examples like Thurston, who was never a “veteran,” was never intended to get much playing time, only played in what was essentially an emergency situation, and was summarily benched when better options became available.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
When you say "go after", you're talking about free-agency
where all the players are going to be older, anyways.
So theres some selection bias there when you’re pointing out (some of the oldest) free agents that TLR has pined for.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
In any case, if you really want to see TLR's perspective
look at who he grants playing time to. Rookies get their fair share.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
He rotates lineups
But rarely does he just plug a rookie in and let him play 150 games. That’s nearly unheard of unless you’re an All-Star in your rookie year.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
how often do non all-star rookies
play 150 games their rookie year? this is not a TLR-specific thing.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
quite a bit actually
You’d be surprised. And it’s usually certain managers that this happens under as well.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
here is a list of rookies that did not play 150 games their rookie years
Mauer, Morneau, Longoria, Chris Coghlan, arod, marty cordova, dustin pedroia, ryan braun, ryan howard, jason bay
obviously, this doesn’t account for mid-season callups, but my point it thats a large number of guys, most of whom won ROY and were obviously great players that did not play 150 games as a rookie. and none of them played for TLR
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
like managers of low-payroll teams?
most every manager will take a “proven” vet, if by proven we are talking about production. perhaps tony just has a different definition of proven, which means to him, simply, “years under his belt”, a la miles. or maybe tony is not a good judge of talent/current ability. i don’t think anywhere else miles would be considered “proven”.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
this sounds like fanpost material
if you want to meaningfully refute this line of reasoning. Because to be honest I don’t see a lot of rookies playing 150 games in the majors.
Here’s one potentially useful list from the Play-Index, which unfortunately doesn’t allow you to search for all players with rookie status who nevertheless had prior cups of coffee. It’s not a long list, lots of Japanese players.
i would imagine the super-two rule seriously limits 150 game
rookie appearances. the rooks good enough to be worth starting 150 games will be good enough that you don’t want their clocks running early. the rooks whose super-two status you don’t care about enough won’t be good enough to start 150 games.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
nice to see termel sledge on a list
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
but how do you know that the izturis signing had ANYTHING to do with what TLR wanted?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
TLR brought his name up to Mo.
Thought he’d be a good defensive player and that he would recover with the bat. One of those turned out to be true….
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
how do you know this?
don’t you think TLR brings up names to Mo all the time? I think Mo has a mind of his own.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
He was publicly asking for them to sign Izturis
Do I have to go back in the P-D archives and pull the quotes too? Sheesh.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
there is an increasing body of evidence that Mo will weight TLR's wants and needs a whole lot more than typical
for a GM. call up an old pal on Friday and have him hired by Monday? done. start talking about Aaron Miles concurrent with the Lopez hiring, then pick up a flyer after Miles calls him in San Fran? done. talk up Fuentes and have Mo bust his butt trying to swing a deal? Matt Holliday? done. for years, done. that’s on top of the unsubstantiated stuff and the supposed nepotism. it’s, as they say, hinky.
I don’t think Mo is a lame duck by any means, but TLR has rebuilt the system around Albert, and what he wants will be on top of their boards.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i think trying to read the tea leaves on conversations we are not privy to, in terms
of what decisions are mo’s decisions and what decisions are tlr’s decisions. i think there’s an element of truth to the notion that tony has shown more comfort with veterans than rookies, but one obvious decision tony made speaks a lot louder to me.
walt left – was forced out – basically in a power struggle over jocketty-ball and luhnow-ball; whether the cards were going to continue as a team drawing on vets and free agents or one oriented toward scouting and the farm.
tony could have stuck with jocketty, or for that matter written a ticket to pretty much any club he chose. the cards went with luhnow and mozeliak and a farm-based program. tony stuck with the team, through a couple down years, through a vacancy on the yankees, through a lot of chances to jump ship. he had to have known at least from when walt left that the team was going to bring on a lot of rookies.
i think tony has bucked some with the youth movement. it hasn’t been smooth, and there have been times when he favored vets over rookies. there have been rookies that have gotten lost in the system. but if tony had a real problem with putting rookies on the field, he wouldn’t be heading the club right now; he’d be with another team.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
true enough
I just don’t buy that Tony has no heft in Mo’s office. since the other commenters are deadset on comparing with other clubs.
personally I like where Tony is right now. he’s kind of accepted the youth infusion. I just don’t like the idea that it just never happened and we just imagined it. the mafia does wonders for the complexion, or so they say.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
oh, no question the FO pays attention to what tony wants.
but tony has also clearly gotten on board with the FO’s plan. it’s a two-way street.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
for that I am glad
the many years before does make me edgy, to be honest. like he’ll fall off the wagon any time now….
but he has mellowed. for whatever reason, the last couple of years have been less prickly.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
this sounds about right
TLR wanted, and got Holliday
but Mo is running the ship and not afraid to go against the grain (Lugo for Dunc)
Master of Typos
by YesWeOquendo on May 11, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, that's where I feel Mo really proved himself
I mean, if we look back, lots of those moves last summer were misses.
but did he make them fast and firmly? hell yeah.
now he just has to be this smart for the rest of his life. hahaha. such is the life. cut your pizza, Mo.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Fixed
cut your pizza of steel, Mo.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
by Taskmaster on May 11, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
we complain about A. Reyes not getting a chance because he was young
And yet wainwright Closes out the world Series than finds himself as one of the best pitchers in the league. Motte was handed the closer position last year with short hook. McClellan went from Double AA to the fireman out of the bullpen his rookie year. There is talk of Boggs being the future closer….
But yeah, Tony likes proven Vets. All managers like proven vets over Rookies.
Tony doesn't manage pitchers
Dave Duncan does. And you’d be foolish to think that Duncan doesn’t have all the say as to what goes on with the pitching staff.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
definitely
i think yadi has as much or more say with the pitching staff than TLR
i would say yadi was the biggest influence on garcia making the team as the 5th starter
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
eh whatever
this who thing was about Tony Championing for Brian Fuentes. So I think my examples are valid. But the biggest point here is:
All Managers want proven vets. They play for today. They don’t play for next year, or 3 years down the road. Because their job depends on how well the team preforms today.
This isn't true either
All Managers want proven vets
Ron Gardenhire has said many times he likes the way the Twins organization is run, and that’s an org that rarely ever signs a free agent. Joe Maddon is another guy who’s publicly stated that he’s in tune with the building process in Tampa Bay.
Because their job depends on how well the team preforms today.
Really? You think Tony LaRussa would be fired by the Cardinals, um, EVER? If so, it certainly isn’t going to be due to having a poor performing team for a couple of seasons while waiting for a few young players to graduate to the big leagues. I don’t see how that’s even relevant to the conversation.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Of course Ron Gardenhire and Joe Maddon say that....
They have no alternative.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Riiiiiiiiight. I bet Gardenhire or Maddon would have a tough time getting a job elsewhere, but why would they want to, when they just keep churning out ridiculous young talent for them to manage in their current organizations and winning baseball games.
They have no alternative. That’s the dumbest thing you’ve said in this entire thread.
I would venture to say that 20 teams would fire their coaches right now to hire either of those guys.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
gardy isn't leaving minny though
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
You never fail an opportunity to misconstrue a point...
Not that they wouldn’t have an alternative to manage somehere else. That, where they currently manage, there is no alternative to building from within because of payroll restrictions.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither does TLR, by your rationale.
Yet he’s still out in the media talking about the next best veteran free agent that can help the Cardinals every year. We’re not as cash strapped as Minnesota or Tampa, but we’re not in the top 10 payrolls either.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
To be fair
“Ron Gardenhire has said many times he likes the way the Twins organization is run, and that’s an org that rarely ever signs a free agent. Joe Maddon is another guy who’s publicly stated that he’s in tune with the building process in Tampa Bay.”
What else are they going to say? That they hate the approach of the team and want Free Agents? This would turn into media controversy in seconds.
Going to have to disagree with you, because there is no way to take what a manager says at face value. I’m sure there are managers who don’t mind playing young talent, but you can’t tell me that a manager isn’t thinking “God, I would really love Rich Harden on a 1 year deal”.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Erg....Damn SBN
Was going to clarify that Ron Gardenhire and Joe Maddon are great coaches, but i don’t necessarily believe every word they say.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
To be fair
You also can’t assume they mean the opposite of what they say. If they fucking hate it there, then why aren’t they out pining for jobs with organizations that will go after those type of players. Would Gardenhire leave Minny to coach the Yankees, Dodgers, or White Sox? I don’t think he would, I think he likes it in Minnesota because he’s been part of building their organization.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Honestly, I don't think you can interpret anything at all from statements like that
the “I support the decisions of my organization” line is a default position that is basically devoid of meaning.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
That's fine
My response wasn’t necessarily towards Gardenhire, but to all managers in general, but I don’t buy anything said towards the media in most cases.
But to respond to that, perhaps he doesn’t want to be in a huge media market that those teams offer? Minnesota is (Or will be) in the 100 million dollar range, but it is secluded media-wise. Mark Few of Gonzaga is a perfect example of this phenomenon.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
The Proven Veteran thing is so, so overplayed (and likely wrong).
Usually these “proven veterans” are just filling bench roles. I think TLR managed four straight ROYs at one point.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Four straight, and 5 total.
2 with the ChiSox…Ron Kittle, and Ozzie Guillen, 83&85, and then Conseco, McGwire, and Weiss 86-88. He managed both the Sox in 86, however.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
my bad.....
6 total. I forgot aboot that guy in STL in 01. He was pretty good too.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I thought they revoked McGwire and Canseco's ROYs?
Oh, wait. I’m sorry. The BBWAA votes for MLB ROY, don’t they? This isn’t the AP and an NFL award…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Ahahaha
This just smells like a USC controversy more than a personal or Houston controversy.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Just saying.
Clay Matthews was also be rumored to be under some performance enhancing stuff too.
Plus, as a Notre Dame fan, I tend to hope USC gets hit by a meteor, either a real one or a metaphorical one.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Trust me. The feeling's mutual :)
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
There's a huge difference
between these distinctions. For one thing, Canseco, Weiss, and McGwire were the ONLY young guys on those A’s squads. They were filled out with mostly veteran players like Carney Lansford, Terry Steinbach, Dave Henderson, Dave Parker, Rickey Henderson, etc. The distinction? Canseco, Weiss, and McGwire were in place when Tony arrived — they were going to play at some point because they were talented and the organization wasn’t going to sign big FA guys to man those positions when they’d just drafted guys to play those positions.
Why do you keep giving TLR credit for guys winning ROY, when the roster matrix that TLR had influence on is filled with veteran players? With the White Sox, you had Fisk, Luzinski, Baines, Tom Paciorek, and in ’86 he brought in a washed up George Foster to play LF instead of promoting Bobby Bonilla, while playing a washed up Fisk over a young Ron Karkovice. This led to him getting fired in the middle of the season. You accuse others of having a “self-fulfilling prophesy”, yet your whole argument basically rests on omitting information and revising history.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I love how Terry Steinbach is considered a "veteran"....
when he was a rookie in 1986 — and TLR brought him up. Classic.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually he was a rookie in '87, but I digress.
You really better check your facts before you start spouting off….
Mickey Tettleton was the catcher in ’86. He was terrible offensively at that time. He started ’87 by hitting .194, but guess who kept running him out there every day? Tony La Russa. Guess who was pissed when they released Tettleton to bring up Steinbach? TLR.
Then he basically had to play him for the next two seasons because of lack of other alternatives, Duncan grew into liking him behind the plate, and he became indispensable for those ’88 thru ’92 teams that won 4 division titles.
Did you check to see how many players over the age of 30 happened to be regulars on those teams? No fewer than 5 on every one of them. Those Oakland teams spent money baby, and when they stopped doing so he left. Why? Because he didn’t think he could win consistently there if they weren’t spending gobs of money. Who do you spend gobs of money on? Veteran players. How did they fare? Art Howe and Kent Macha won the same number of division titles as LaRussa did in the ensuing decade as LaRussa had in the previous decade.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
When was Steinbach's first day in the majors, for which team and manager?
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
that's a non-response to my question.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a perfect response actually
Steinbach got a cup of coffee in ’86, hit well in ST of ’87, then got demoted in favor of Tettleton “the veteran catcher” at the time, until Tettleton was hitting .197 in June, when he promptly got release by the organization and Steinbach came up. TLR was not happy with this decision.
I have family that are huge A’s fans and live in the Bay Area. If you want to continue to argue this, fine, go right ahead. But you have no frame of reference for these arguments because you simply don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
I’m done with this. You just want to argue semantics. The body of evidence clearly supports my conclusion. I’m not doing a thesis on the subject just to please someone who likes to misrepresent arguments.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Read "regulars"
There can only be 8 “regulars” of the position players. So 3 were under 30, and all were over the age of 25.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Oh come on!
He wouldn’t be that good!!!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on May 11, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I really think (based on nothing) that Mo intentionally did not bid enough to get Fuentes...despite knowing TLR's desire for him.
by Willie McGee's Twin on May 11, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe this to be true as well. (Same thing with K-Rod.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I know he's blown a couple saves and allowed some HR's
But I haven’t seen anything specific? How bad has it actually been? Hoffman bad? Isringhausen bad? or more like bad Franklin?
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
Also, this seems like as good a time as any to post this
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 12:21 PM EDT reply actions 18 recs
remember when Pujols and Ludwick led in XBH tandems
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
so long ago.
Ryan Ludwick (29) 80 2008 Albert Pujols (28) 81 2008
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I never get tired
Of seeing the look on Brad Lidge’s face…it’s almost like he knew his career was flying away with that baseball.
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
From several people who were there...
You could hear the ball hit the glass and Pujols’ footsteps as he rounded the bases.
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
yep
you could hear the dirt crunching beneath his cleats. the acoustics of MMP were spot on that night.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on May 11, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that what I think it is?
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
At least our TESS's come in the regular season
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
errmmm let's not talk or mention game 2 of last year, yeah?
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
Well
That sucked, but it was still nowhere near that Cubs game in terms of TESS-itude
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The first one was... for us.
He’s referring to the Cubs’ own T.E.S.S., however.
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
this has been green'd
I had to look up the boxscore. I’d forgotten that FL scored so many runs in that inning. This is what happens when you rely on Kyle fucking Farnsworth to slam the door when your WS berth is on the line….
I’d also forgotten Brad Penny was a Marlin then. He started Game 2 of that series and his line was not pretty at all: 2 IP, 7ER, 2BB, 0K….
I was looking for a Pujols-Lidge gif, couldn't find one
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
My dream is to find this game in HD
by Hardcore Legend on May 11, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Just a video of the replay would be an amazing find.
An animated gif of this is like the holy grail amongst us Cardinals animated gif collectors.
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
I used to have one
not sure where it went
Best Buy had this clip in HD in constant rotation in 2006-2007. I have the game in Non-HD on DVD, but I want the HD version of it.
by Hardcore Legend on May 11, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I do, however, have the Mona Lisa
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
by dan on May 11, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
One of these days
I’m going to take the time to figure out why I can’t right-click and save an animated GIF.
I have one of Edmonds, but I dunno how I saved that.
Even more mysterious about this particular animated GIF is the fact that it's a JPEG
Black magic
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
You can just tell he gave that pitch everything he had
He almost scraped the ground with his pitching hand on the follow through. What a badass.
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
giddy
still.
Also, Yadi had already caught the ball by the time his right foot plants on the follow through. The umpire is already starting his motion to ring up Carlos Moneybelt-ran.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on May 11, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Animated GIF
I have no idea why it’s slow today. Maybe my server is busy processing porn.
I’m pretty sure I got it off someone on this board.
OMG YOU ARE AMAZING!!!!!
Here’s a mirror, so this treasure will never be lost to the ages: mirror
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
noticing Albert's stance has changed a little since then...
His hands aren’t nearly as far back as they are now.
Thus spoke Zarathustra!
So do I!
MLB should digitalize its entire audio library, too. How cool would it be to have broadcasts of games from the 1940s, etc.? At least make major accomplishments available.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I agree.
I would absolutely part with my money to hear and see old footage.
You can read it in any tone you like.
you've all made a grave miscalculation
Bud Selig is actually Scrooge McDuck. He has a giant vault with a diving board in it.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Swimming through old tape reels of game footage and radio calls
would ruin them. Scrooge indeed….
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
When you do
I will pay you for a copy. plus steak.
Now that I think about it, I need to check the 2005 White Sox world series DVD. It had this play, but I can’t remember if it was in HD. I bought that DVD just to get this.
I always get a kick out of watching Lidge trying to duck
the ball went like 50 feet over his head. By the time this frame is snapped it’s already approaching Arkansas.
I'm not sure he's ducking
I think that’s just his reaction to giving up a bomb in that situation.
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
My friends and I joked about how Lidge tried to crawl underneath the mound.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Nah.
It was the classic “duck and cover” move that public schools taught kids to perform upon a nuclear blast.
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on May 11, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It's too bad this comment is likely gonna go unnoticed
It’s green-worthy
by jd is legend on May 12, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, so it did land?
Last I checked, it hadn’t landed yet, but that was at least 2 or 3 months ago.
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
i want that as a giant poster in my room
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
You should get one of those video picture frames and put the gif on it...
Just like Harry Potter pictures… except real…
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
Goold and his RBIs
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
In response to this everyone-under-100-OPS+ factoid
An Astros fan on another board I post on said:
Watching games is like watching a horror movie as a child, I keep my hand over my eyes and just peek through the cracks with my head turned as far away as possible.
100: The Tragicomic Tale of a Franchise Told in OPS+
[Ed Note: Please enjoy the following short play. It is Ed Wade’s great masterpiece.]
ACT 1 – The Starters:
Quintero: 55
Berkman: 73
Keppinger: 75
Manzella: 32
Feliz: 46
Lee: 46
Bourn: 97
Pence: 57
ACT 2 – The Bench
Matsui: 21
Blum: 97
Towles: 47
Sullivan: 4
Michaels: 68
Johnson: 44
Cash: -100
ACT 3 – The Offensive Star
Paulino: 126
Fin.
by mojowo11 on May 11, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
rec.....great scripting.
I laughed, I cried, it became a part of me.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
The end surprised me
At first I thought it was a happy ending. But then I realized that, in fact, it was not.
that was a good play
if tragic
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The worst part has to be for Astros fans...
The one old overpaid guy the let go is actually hitting respectably in Baltimore this year.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
Pedro Feliz - $4.5mm for 2010 - .223/.239/.311; 2 BB - 14 SO
Miguel Tejada – $6.0mm for 2010 – .284/.331/.440; 5 BB – 6 SO
(both playing 3B this year)
Tejada is pretty close to his career numbers, a bit under, but even if Feliz gets back close to his career numbers… $4.5mm? If Tejada was willing to sign for that little in Baltimore… was there some other reason Houston let him go and signed Pedro F’ing Feliz?
Tragic comedy indeed.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
I'm not sure how defense would affect a comparison between the two,
but Tejada is as mobile as a dead fish and Feliz is pretty good.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I think with moving Tejada to 3B it's not nearly as bad
He at least hasn’t been pulling anything ala Betancourt to get negative attention.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
I agree that Tejada is a better third baseman than he was a shortstop (faint praise, indeed).
I just don’t know that Tejada at $6MM compared to Feliz at $4.5MM is as clean cut at season’s end as it seems at first blush.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm just wondering if there was bad blood or something
Because Tejada was a known quantity, his defense has declined but his offense isn’t that far down from his MVP season (lol @ the 2002 AL MVP vote)… Feliz couldn’t even post a .700 OPS on one of the more prolific offenses in recent memory.
They are basically the same age.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
This play is titled:
“Plenty of Good Seats Still Available”
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
by TBender on May 11, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
And they're cheap!
I have a 4-hour drive to the stadium but I’ll make 2-3 Cardinals games this year. I think they only play 6 at Minute Maid though.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
Bud Norris has an ERA+ of 56
I’d hate to see what it would be if he didn’t make that start against us
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
has anyone run the differentials between pitchers vs the rest of baseball
then vs the magic healing powers of the Cardinals?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
this is like the bicycle thief, if it had been written in OPS+, instead of italian.
the existential futility of man’s existence.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on May 11, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if they said the numbers in Italian, it would be avant garde
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I've always hated the astros more than the cubs
despite the cubs fans’ ignorance. the cubs could be so much more dangerous but they keep f’ing up over and over again, there has to be some comedic value in that.
the astros, on the other hand, have been staunch competitors for the cardinals and are a real baseball rivalry. or were, I should say. wow, they suck bad, last year was the precipice, and now they have fallen off of it (barring any late season crazy ass winning streaks, of course, which they are known for, another reason I don’t like them).
what started my own personal rivalry with the astros, was a game I attended as I young guy… I can’t remember many details from the game, but basically the cardinals were way ahead of the astros, then the astros came all the way back to win the game. this was my first taste of a TESS level catastrophe, one I’ll never forget having seen it in person. this was in the mid to late 80s I think
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 1:38 PM EDT reply actions
there was a game in the early 90s where the Cardinals were up by 8 runs
and the Astros battled all the way back. maybe even in one inning. as a child, i was depressed.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
that could be the game I am thinking of
it was in one inning. that game sucked! it was the most depressing game ever
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
not sure if this is the one
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU199407180.shtml
we were up by 11 (!) and lost.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
wow
I think that’s the one, but that means my memory is waaaaaay off. I did see a number of games at Busch II though, spread out over a number of years as a kid and a teenager. so this one has to be it.
being at that game was just unnerving. went from best game I had ever seen to a complete and utter disappointment.
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm Old Enough..
…that to me I forget they’re in our Division, I always have them in the west and the hated Mutts in our division!
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
i hear ya
I’m still getting used to the brew crew being in the same league as us, much less the same division. Were the Braves in the west too? I think I remember that being the case, even though it makes no sense.
youneverknow
And the Reds.
How the hell did they come up with that?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
iirc, that came from the braves being the milwaukee braves at one point.
when they changed cities, they were never moved back to the eastern division.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
OT
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
that's never accurate
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
no, it's never accurate
think on it.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Only because you keep commenting.
You don’t comment at other blogs.
You can read it in any tone you like.
correct as usual
if one thinks about my comment count, I am commenting.
(I was going to drop into other blogs, but I mostly read. that would be too much.)
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Ode to the Astros
There once was a team called the ’Stros
In the early aughts they arose
While the Cubs remained cursed
Houston battled for first
But today, they only have woes
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
by IHeartBoog on May 11, 2010 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 12 recs
This should make the next couple games even easier...
Haha, their one player having a bit of impact on offense.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
Link fail, Bourn suspended 2 games for chest-bumping 1B ump
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
Well...
Bourn has appealed the suspension and will therefore be available for Tuesday night’s game against the Cardinals at Busch Stadium.
I want the Walrus back...
goddammit
i would LOVE to play the astros without seeing Michael F. Bourn out there covering 95% of the outfield
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
Although I will like seeing yadi give him a few more CS's.
"If I'm in a slump, I ask myself for advice" - Ichiro
Wait a minute...
is this true? And if it is, why didn’t I know about this… comes from a 2007 ESPN (yes, I know, ESPN…) article found here.
Debut of the half year
The good news for Cardinals rookie Brendan Ryan was, his first career home run was an extra-inning game winner against the Mets on June 26.
The bad news was, the day before, he’d tried to take a taxi to Shea Stadium — and his cab driver took him to Yankee Stadium instead.
Eventually, he finally got to the right park. But when he did, he discovered that all the clothes hanging in his locker had been frozen by his always-hospitable teammates. So he tried warming up his clothes with a hair dryer — and blew a circuit in the clubhouse, shorting out all the power in the office of his friendly neighborhood manager, Tony La Russa.
All of which proves it’s better to be a hot hitter than a cool dresser.
I want the Walrus back...
we actually knew all of that except the hair dryer.
VEB is your source for news from fake people.
who wrote that?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
if VEB is to be believed
The part about the ex-girlfriends
is hilarious. There is much to like about Boog. On and off the field
I want the Walrus back...
that's the only negative thing I've ever seen him say
besides the stuff he says about himself.
it’s interesting.
andi_k should probably take over the thread, I am eating and ’tasking.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
this is hilarious.
i knew about the cab ride story but not the rest. poor Boog.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
bud freakin norris
will pitch tonight against us
offensive for us
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 2:06 PM EDT reply actions
that would definitely brighten the mood
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, man! Like, totally dude!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on May 11, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
we need to be efficient in our use of....
batted balls
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Resident malcontented betamale
We're too serious right now
We should take a cue from Sosa and lighten up
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Tyler Greene not doin' real well in the web gems vote
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/5176424/sunday-9
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yes. I vented my outrage previously.
this just in — FESPN still can’t pronounce"Ryan Ludwick"
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
go figure
Zito had spent all winter under the tutelage of one of his lifelong pitching coaches, Dick Mills, who had recently come under the spell of an Australian sports scientist named Dr. Brent Rushall. A professor at San Diego State, Rushall had studied the biomechanics of cricket bowlers and swimmers.
Mills had become sold on a completely different way to throw a baseball, called “momentum pitching.” And he had a willing, high-profile pupil.
http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci_15058619?source=rss&nclick_check=1
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
wow
that one sentence has the words spell, sports, and scientist. some of my favorite things.
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
it's basically an article about pixie dust.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
re: pixie dust
“In my opinion, when you talk about pitching coaches, there are two guys. There’s feel guys and there’s the guy who has, like, a lot of intellectual knowledge of stats and numbers and biomechanics and all that stuff.
“Rags is a feel guy. He knows exactly what it takes to succeed. And I think the people who haven’t succeeded at the big league level try to make up for a lack of feel, of pure pitching at the best level, with that intellectual knowledge. Rags doesn’t need that.”
Righetti didn’t bombard Zito with mechanical changes or advice. As a veteran with a successful track record, Zito had earned his space and rope. And he used plenty of it while becoming a cautionary tale and a public punching bag.
Like, knowledge, is, like, for losers.
P.S. I love how Dave Duncan has become the gold standard for pitching coaches.
the combination of the two would be awesome, though.
Dunc is an innovator for sure, in terms of preparedness. I think he gets kicked up into greatness because at-heart he’s still the catcher going up to the mound, saying “What the fuck are you doing? Put him out with a curveball, sonuva—, and we can go home.”
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I should look for a fangraphs aritcle on him
I’d love to know more details. What he’s doing, when he’s doing it. I mean, doing more long toss and throwing more sliders? That’s it? heh.
Why in hell did he stop doing long toss? The ex-Atlanta-now-Baltimore-too-bad-for-him pitching coach is huge on long toss.
adam wainwright is the ace of the pitching staff
relevant to nothing. it just needs to be said
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I still like saying Ace 1A, though.
like he’s even better than ace. or a steak sauce.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Garcia and Penny are giving him some nice competition
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
carp is pitching really well, too
i’m talking outside of the small sample and everything
he’s running out there 8 innings every start and when he gets roughed up, he gives up 2 runs
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
yeah
at this point there’s little doubt that he’s the ace. but Garcia is close
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, it's little short of amazing
the kind of results jaime is getting so far. i’m excited to see what kind numbers he has come july or the end of the season
if he stays healthy, a waino contract would be very fitting for him by the end of next season
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
the whole rotation except for Lohse
is pitching, dare I say it, ridiculously well. now to talk about Penny, watching his pitches this year, his stuff looks electric. I could see him keeping this up over the season. his last outing was not as good as the others, but even then it was a good outing.
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
as long as Lohse is better than Wellemeyer
I’m not complaining.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
a 4 ace staff with one mediocre guy sounds freaking awesome to me
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
oh good, I already got a towel.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
completely OT: google chrome
does anyone know how to make it so that when you click “new tab” it opens to a specific page (such as google.com)? or is this even possible?
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/icpgjfneehieebagbmdbhnlpiopdcmna
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
yes, that's it...
I knew there was one, I just don’t have it myself.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't think that's built into Chrome itself
but I believe there’s an extension that will do that for you. I always just have it open the New Tab page.
Look here:
http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=95451&ctx=tip
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
thanks
i just really want it to open to Google since when i click a new tab its almost always to search for something related to what i’m doing in the first tab.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Just type your search in the new tab's address bar
>Pitcher Change: Felipe Lopez replaces Ryan Franklin, batting 7th, replacing third baseman Felipe Lopez
I just type my search in the address bar
Then it defaults to google search when I hit enter.
No need to ever visit www.google.com when using chrome…
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
ugh
i have this piece of code due in a little over two hours and i don’t know what i’m doing
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
what kind of code?
for school? Just curious… I’m a software engineer so I can’t help but wonder.
youneverknow
just a simple c++ program
it’s supposed use arrays and sequential files to read the name of a city and the temperature in the city from a plain text file and display it on the console. it does fine for the first city and temp, but after that it goes crazy and starts showing weird numbers in scientific notation and freezes
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
heh, just got it
it was the spaces in my strings. it didn’t like “san antonio” for instance. took out the space and it worked
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
sounds like some memory is getting stomped on
I’m kind out of the C++ world now and am mostly doing Java (actually I was mostly a C guy). Do you have a debugging tool you can use to examine the code? If not, maybe some trusty cout statements will point you toward the problem…
Anyway, sorry to pry. Good luck.
youneverknow
i've got this weird assignment that has you looking in the assembly code of some executables to determine seven secret phrases
assembly is a headache
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
assembly language almost killed me when I was in school
some guys love it, but for me it was so low level, that I didn’t have to patience to debug it when stuff went wrong. Ugh.
youneverknow
its pretty helpful
if you want to hack look at the inner workings of any given program.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
Lineup...Rasmus leading off (?)
Rasmus 8
Ludwick 9
Pujols 3
Holliday 7
Freese 5
Molina 2
Schumaker 4
Ryan 6
Penny 1
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Penny must really suck in BP
/tongue-in-cheek
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
are they taking BP yet? seriously
someone tweet Goold. I want to know when they start this.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It was said this was being mulled over.
intriguing.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
.430 OBP > .300 OBP
I love it
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I'd like to see something like this:
Rasmus
Freese
Holliday
Pujols
Ludwick
Yadi
Skip
Boog
Pitcher
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
i don't think TLR would ever start Pujols anywhere that isn't third.
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
3rd would still put pressure on the elbow
I don’t like it when there is pressure on Albert’s elbow :(
1st is the only option for our team.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
batting order
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'll just go get my dunce cap and go to the corner now.......
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
1-6, you mean
babip giveth... and babip taketh away
by purple_haze on May 11, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like the new clutchier Yadi
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
you mean the old Yadi
we were wondering what happened to him after the NLCS. now seems a little closer to his potential.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ok
the new higher BA base stealing Yadi
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
now, we don't know what's gotten into him with the base stealing
he may be doing it just to piss off Hrabosky
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Had to cut it off at 5
If I had included 6, I may have died from towel usage
by jd is legend on May 11, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
hmmm
interesting
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
i think skip will be given every chance to get on track
before lopex returns, and if he hasn’t by then, he’ll lose a lot of playing time. thing that sucks is, even moving him down, it’s still three automatic outs in a row right now, same as if they were batting 8-9-1 rather than 7-8-9.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yeah, but now we have a guy with a .430 OBP in front of Albert instead of behind
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
aka walkapotamoose
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yeah, it'll be interesting to watch colby lead off for a little bit
until lopex gets back or skip gets on track.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Oh noes....
their best hitter:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ap5WvR5jgEmArP2BE7xt.AURvLYF?slug=ap-astros-bourn
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Why not?
Major League Baseball agreed to his right to appeal in the CBA. I think the right to appeal has led to more uniform and more appropriate disciplilne by MLB. How often do you see a suspension appeal won by the player these days? I don’t recall very many in the last handful of seasons.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Does spring training count?
Although MLB reversed Lee’s suspension before it went to the appeal I believe. And most of those turn in to 3 games instead of 5, for example, but not usually totally off of the hook.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Right.
I thought of Lee’s, but I seem to remember MLB self-correcting it. I could be wrong, though.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I believe that the M's
successfully lobbied that his lack of command was due to injury, not the fact that Lee was extremely pissed.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
This place has become too contentious...
everybody thinks I’m wrong about stuff. I’m going to start my own blog and none of you are invited.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
You'll be the smartest person there!
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all.
-- Earl Weaver
by Smokin Turkeys on May 11, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
no it's not
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on May 11, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
does the WWL have antyhing to say about baseball besides "nap-gate"?
they call it Sleepgate. which is uncreative.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
There is plenty of baseball news!
Jason Heyward destroys world, Halladay winning 50, AL East.
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all.
-- Earl Weaver
by Smokin Turkeys on May 11, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Wak was on xm today
saying it was lies, all lies.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
haha
he wouldn’t lie to the media, would he? funny if he said, “yeah, i’m really sick of griffey…” apparently griff has some sleep issue, and the napping is nothing new.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Found this on the 'net today
Me thinks the Cardinals fan base is grossly underestimated. Don’t forget, for a long time, St.L was the only team west of the Mississippi. I thought Oklahoma was solid Cardinals country . . . 
Yadi: The fastest of all the Molina brothers.
it's Nike
that’s old stuff. dang, who’s got that common-whatever link that we always shoot back for these?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
found it!
http://www.commoncensus.org/sports_hotspot.php?sport=2
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
another...? moar sizes, I think.
http://www.commoncensus.org/sports_map.php?sport=2
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
saw that last season
cool idea though
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
If the Marlins had that big of a fanbase
They could afford a payroll bigger than they have……….
I know this map is not entirely accurate, but come on!
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
The Marlins are not a poor team....
This is why there needs to be a payroll floor, not ceiling.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
No, they aren't
but I doubt the fanbase is that big.
I actually think there should be both.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Common Census as of May 2009
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Utah could sure use that team, huh....
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Or any hallmarks of
civilization
Yadi: The fastest of all the Molina brothers.
by huja on May 11, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah the West Central portion of the US
must not have access to TV or the Internets. How do people live!?!?!?
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
they go outside at night.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
People....go....outside?
Who does that?
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
it's the space between my basement apartment and the inside of best buy.
by DanUpBaby on May 11, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Ohhh, good.
My car shields me from the sunlight. I am afraid I would melt otherwise.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
How did you get your mom
to lend you give you a ride in her car?
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm not sure.
/I’m gonna go ahead and put a sarcasm tag here.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
You are correct.
It is sarcasm.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
sorry, man.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
While this is pretty old
I have been waiting years for them to update it and sell it as a poster. I would frame that shit and put it on my wall. So cool.
I'm off to Padres vs. Giants
at PacBell/SBC/AT&T/Alphabet Soup Ball Park tonight. Bring home a winner tonight VEB!
Yadi: The fastest of all the Molina brothers.
Now that's an offensive show..........
/sarcasm
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
It's either that or
I meet up with the two dozen or so people that attend the A’s game regularly.
Yadi: The fastest of all the Molina brothers.
Ehh, I see your quandary.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
cool
sounds like a good game to see live!
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
a worthy goal
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Did not know you were a Bay Area VEBer
There are a surprisingly large cadre of us around these parts…
Tender Nob
Love the term. Sounds dirty. Like the national airline of Ireland
Yadi: The fastest of all the Molina brothers.
rookie of the year race
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/a-look-at-the-nl-rookie-race/
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 7:28 PM EDT reply actions
Did you notice that they had Heyward as the AL ROY?LOL
Is he going to get traded?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on May 11, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I did
I like that comment where someone says he’s so good that he wins the AL one too
he is a bit eccentric
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 11, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
pre-game!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ugh. I hope they fixed that dugout camera.
shots permanently in that horrible oversaturated red.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Mo speaks! to the Cat.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
for the record, he quotes Tony first.
hehehe.
for himself, Mo is into the ebb-and-flow. regression to the mean over time. let it flow, Mo.
sticks up for his dudes.
…….argh, they haven’t fixed the dugout camera!! gouge eyes out
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
"Albert and I agreed we would table this till the off-season, and I stand by that."
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
"the pizza will be cold by the off-season. how can the pizza not be cold! the chicken will also be cold, and then what, Saint Louis? what. then."
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
this makes me laugh. never change, 'potamoose.
"I ain’t going to change," Rasmus said. "Just go up there, see the ball, hit the ball. Try to do damage. … It’s not really my favorite spot. But (the job is the same), get on base."
is it The Night of the Lopex?!!
P-D
G-Dem
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
so 50 years from now, when Colby Rasmus is the announcer for the Cardinals, we'll remember this, right?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
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