Guest Post: Bullpen Security: A False Sense of, or, the Need for a Blanket
[Programming Note: If you're reading this I'm in Tokyo, where I am the only person without an active internet connection. Gamely stepping into the breach is fanpost hero bgh, who's been working on this piece since most of it would have appeared in future tense. Any weird formatting, I assure you, is the result of SBN's screwy Word Import button, and not his particular aesthetic sense. Without further ado:]
There is a sense of impending doom about the Cardinal bullpen this young season, as if Nostradamus himself had prophesied the forthcoming disaster of an early season collapse and that prophesy was recovered and printed by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Ryan Franklin's late-season fall-off and Spring Training troubles did not help matters. No less disconcerting than the Motte getting apple-jacked on Opening Day 2009 was Ryan Franklin's Opening Day 2010 performance. After all, only one day in the baseball year lends itself to the hopes of 162-0 and the fears of 57 blown saves, and that is the season opener. However irrational our fears and the conclusions they spawn may be, the uneven bullpen performance of Spring Training has officially carried over into the regular season, at least the first game of it, and this carry-over caused me to hearken back to a post Erik wrote for Fangraphs back in the early days of Spring Training.
*Perhaps my favorite headline ever. Tabloids--both British and NYC-based--doubtlessly contacted DanUp in its wake to inquire as to how much money he would require to put his English degree to work for them, crafting headlines. Luckily for us, he has spurned the big-money advances and stayed true to himself, writing baseball clerihews, Game Post haikus, and one-act plays about the Cardinals.
First of all, let me begin by saying that I love Erik Manning's work. Love, love it. Whether it is Future Redbirds (perhaps, my favorite venue for his writing), Play A Hard Nine, or Fangraphs, I am always excited to read what he writes. It is insightful and thought-provoking as a general rule and that is most certainly true as to his post over at Fangraphs (from earlier this year, during Spring Training*) addressing the Cardinal bullpen, entitled "The Cardinals' Weak Spot," which details how lucky the returning relievers were last season. His analysis gives those of us uneasy about the bullpen this year--a group that seems to have grown such that it includes the whole of Cardinal Nation--some numbers into which we can sink our teeth and feed that uneasiness. Erik's post is definitely worth a read, especially as we stock our 2008 vintage bunkers for the long, drawn-out shelling of the bullpen that seems so imminent to so many.
*In my mind, the baseball year begins with Pitchers & Catchers (Feb. 17th this year in Jupiter), evolves into Spring Training (when the position players show up--Feb. 22nd this year), ramps up and into the Regular Season, then winds down with the high-tension postseason before we enter the Hot Stove. You see, to me, Pitchers & Catchers is the appetizer, to Spring Training, and a wholly separate event and state of being for the game. At any rate, Erik was prescient enough to craft this post before the relievers threw lacklusterly in Spring Training and downright poorly on Opening Day, the day on which the fortunes of an entire season are inevitably foreseen with much celebration or teeth-gnashing, as the case may be.
Erik uses his analysis of our bullpenners to question why we have not added an arm--namely, Kiko Calero--and answers his own question by suggesting that perhaps Mo & Co. have a false sense of security about the bullpen after last year's somewhat luck-based success. Here is his concluding paragraph:
It’s surprising to me that the Cardinals have yet to kick the tires on Kiko Calero, who was part of their 2004 team that won the NL Championship, and it’s also surprising that they have steered clear of Octavio Dotel or even the likes of Chan Ho Park this offseason. Maybe their general manager has been lulled into a false sense of security by the ERA that the ’09 team posted, because by all accounts they have money left in the budget to have signed one more relief pitcher. The failure to do so will likely make it easier for the underdogs to sneak up in the standings, unless lady luck strikes again.
Looking at the Cardinals' roster as constructed for the 2010 season would easily lead one to believe that Mo is perhaps a little overconfident in the skill of our relievers as a group. I know I agreed with Erik upon reading the post. Why else would Mo refuse to sign a proven commodity like Octavio Dotel, Chan Ho Park, Kiko Calero*, or John Smoltz? As with most good writing, I kept thinking about the Cardinal bullpen. In the shower, I was thinking about it. Driving to work, I was thinking about it. In line at the grocery store, I was thinking about it.** My thinking drifted from the individual relievers to Mo's motivations, and I eventually wondered if Erik's impression of Mo's mindset might be offbase. Speculating on a man's motivations is always dangerous, particularly one whose benign (non)comments on roster machinations have earned the Orwellian label "Mospeak." That said, if we take a step back and look at Mo's entire tenure as general manager of the St. Louis Cardinals, L.L.C., I think we get a mindset that may be less about a sense of security and more about an underlying philosophy toward relief pitchers in general and those of the righthanded variety in particular.
*To a Minor League Deal! After a 2.56-FIP season! Prepositional phrase!
**No man should probably spend this much time thinking about the Cardinal bullpen, I admit. But, in late-February, what else is there to think about? I do not understand the Winter Olympics enough to spend much time thinking about them when I am not watching them. The Northern Iowa Panthers only play two nights a week (even when they are busting brackets in the Big Dance). And, work, well, I spend too much time at the office as it is, and probably too much time thinking about work. So, I guess I am saying that, since I do not have children and work nine-to-twelve hours on any given day, that I am justified spending my down time considering the roster of the St. Louis Cardinals. After all, I have been doing so since I was six or seven--when Jack Clark was signed by my dad's favorite New York Yankees and the Cards acquired a Hated '87 Twin, Tom Brunansky, to play right field--so, why stop as an adult?
Mo took over as general manager after a 2007 season that had few bright spots outside of the always luminous Albert Pujols, the renaissance of Rick Ankiel as outfielder, the lucky Ryan Franklin, and, perhaps, the down payment on future contributor Ryan Ludwick, the emergence of future second baseman Skip Schumaker*, and Jason Isringhausen closing out ballgames. It's important to remember that Izzy did not finish 2006 pitching; rather, he finished it on the disabled list, leaving it to Adam Wainwright to record the most dramatic out of the Cardinal decade. Some may recall the debate--and it was a debate--about whether to name Wainwright the Closer or move him to the rotation in 2007. (To TLR's credit, he moved Wainwright to the rotation. Come to think of it, Waino's 202 IP of 3.90 FIPing in '07 was another down payment-type of bright spot.) In 2007, Izzy was Lights Out, to use the parlance of closer description. Well, maybe not early Aught's Lights Out, but Izzy was quite effective: 65.1 IP, 32 Saves in 34 opportunities**, 7.44 K/9, 3.86 BB/9, and a 3.76 FIP. If a team like St. Louis is going to alott $8.75MM--or, 8.8% of its almost $100MM payroll--to a player who throws 65.1 innings, those had better be some Lights Out 65.1 innings. They were, and, not surprisingly, Mo decided to pick up Izzy's 2008 option, for $8MM.
*If Skip Schumaker were still playing outfield, I would not reference his emergence as a bright spot of 2007.
**The Cardinals won 78 games in 2007, which means that Izzy closed out nearly half of the team's victories. He only failed to close the deal twice in 2007 and did not earn a single loss. That's right. Izzy was 4-0 in 2007 with a save rate of 94.11%. If Izzy came in with the lead, the Cards stood a great chance of winning, which is, I believe, the point of having a Closer.
Allow me to abuse WAR for a paragraph. As my little footnote demonstrates, Izzy did exactly what he was supposed to do in 2007. To put it another way, he did exactly what the Cardinals paid him to do. "Izzy, here's about 10% of our payroll. [I envision them handing him a 5-foot-by-2-foot giant cardboard check signed, "DeWallet."] Now you go close out games, the 30-to-50% of games that are 'close,' that is." According to WAR over at Fangraphs, Izzy's 2007 efforts were worth $2.7MM, or, about 23.6% of his actual salary. It is now important to remind ourselves that Fangraphs' WAR accounts for high-leverage pitching, using leverage index, but not full leverage index.* So, even though Fangraphs takes context into account with its WAR for relievers, if we see our abuse of WAR through to the last sentence of this paragraph, Izzy was still overpaid by about $6MM (even with his 2.71 WPA).
*Please read the link. I will leave it to far more intelligent mathematicians to fully explain the WAR formula for relievers and how it under- or over-values them. I feel somewhat comfortable stating that, whatever one's quibbles, Izzy is not going to make up $6MM in value by anything other than a radical adjustment to the manner in which WAR is calculated.
I do not want to be the one to dredge up the heartbreaking, gut-wrenching, ulcer-inducing frustration that was created by the late-inning collapses of the 2008 Cardinal bullpen. No, I do not want to be the one to rip the scar tissue off that was formed by Franklin's 2009 run as Closer. But, in 2008, the Cardinals gave Izzy $8MM to do what he did in 2007 (as if the career-low .226 BABIP would repeat itself). We all know what happened: 42 IP, 5 Losses, 7 Blown Saves*, 4.64 BB/9, .338 BABIP (which fueled a .285 BAA), and many other Cardinal relievers finding themselves in the Closer role**. His WPA for 2008, at -2.97, was a 180-degree reversal of the year prior. To again abuse WAR, Izzy's 2008 value was -$1.8MM.
*Izzy actually blew 10 Saves in 2006. Isn't it amazing how a World Series Championship won with Wainwright as Closer erases those memories?
**While the trigger was not pulled, even post-injury Adam Wainwright as well as post-injury Chris Carpenter were tossed out as possible solutions at Closer.
Now, to circle back around to Mo's philosophy toward relievers, which I believe began to show itself during the 2008 season. You may or may not remember that many were clamoring for Mo to use the club's Faberge Eggs to bring in a bullpen reinforcement or two. There were a handful of relievers who were throwing for teams completely out of, or fading from, the playoff hunt, and those teams were demanding a king's ransom in prospects for the ability to trot those relievers out for the 15 or 20 innings that they would throw over the course of the remainder of that season. Mo stood pat, was widely criticized for doing so, and the Cardinals fell out of playoff contention. Whether Will Ohman or Brian Fuentes or some other late-inning reliever would have propelled the Cards past the Brewers or Cubs is open to debate, but count me amongst those who believe Mo made the right decision. I believe that Mo felt a reliever simply was not worth in benefit to the Cardinals what other teams were demanding in a trade. This is the first instance of Mo refusing to augment the 'pen.
During the 2008-2009 Hot Stove, there was a crop of closers that were seemingly the prescription for the Cardinals' 2008 fever. Izzy was allowed to leave and the Cardinals made offers to K-Rod and Brian Fuentes, offers that were nowhere near what those pitchers, respectively, would sign for in the end. Here, again, I believe that Mo did not believe even K-Rod was worth what the Mets would throw at him, in terms of money and maybe even years. I believe that he looked at the Cardinals' potential closers--Motte, Perez, Franklin, and may even McClellan--and decided that one or all of them would be able to give the team about what Fuentes would--but for far less money--and decided to roll the dice. During this same offseason, Mo let the lone 2008 bullpen bright spot, the grizzled Russ Springer, leave without so much as an offer and then signed the previously anonymous Trever Miller for peanuts. He would go on to sign Dennys Reyes for more peanuts, as well, late in the Hot Stove. In 2008, the Cardinal bullpen of Randy Flores ($1MM), Ryan Franklin ($2.25MM), Jason Isringhausen ($8MM), Kyle McClellan ($390K), Russ Springer ($3.5MM), Chris Perez ($390K), Brad Thompson ($416K), and Ron Villone ($600K) cost the team $16,546,000. In 2009, the upgraded 'pen consisted of Ryan Franklin ($2.5MM), Josh Kinney ($450K), Kyle McClellan ($411K), Trever Miller ($500K), Jason Motte ($400K), Blake Hawksworth ($400K), Dennys Reyes ($1MM), Brad Thompson ($650K), and Chris Perez ($402K) and would cost the Cardinals $6,713,000. The phrase "addition by subtraction," at least in terms of overall cost, was tailor-made for this situation. The 2009 Cardinal bullpen cost 40.57% of what the 2008 corps that caused so much heartburn was paid.
Mo's attitude toward relievers was not merely demonstrated by his big-league roster maneuverings during the 2008-2009 Hot Stove. He also made trades. To fill a hole at shortstop, Mo shipped out righty prospect Mark Worrell (who was, admittedly, out-of-favor and probably viewed by the Cardinals as nothing more than trade bait) and a prospect to be named later for Khalil Greene. The Padres wound up choosing Luke Gregerson as the Crash Davis of the deal. Worrell required arm surgery and was a non-factor in 2009 while Gregerson FIPed 2.50 over 75 innings for the Padres (with an 11.16 K/9!), giving the Friars nearly $8MM worth of value--according to WAR, as I again abuse it--for $400K in salary. Mo also left Luis Perdomo unprotected for the Rule V draft. Perdomo was selected by the Giants, who wound up releasing him. The Padres then claimed Perdomo and installed him in their bullpen for the 2009 season. If Perdomo were not pitching for the lowly Padres in 2009, a club that has taken the Win Later approach, he probably would not have stuck, FIPing 5.35 last season. It will be interesting to see how Perdomo performs as he ages.
The appetizer of the 2009 Trade Deadline saw Mo again surrender right-handed relievers--in fact, two of the system's better righty relievers (and, I confess, two of my favorite prospects)--to acquire an everyday position player in Mark DeRosa. Jess Todd was a AAA All-Star and did not earn the all-caps nickname, DESTROYER, for no reason, FIPing 2.38 for Memphis last season. Chris Perez, The Faberge Egg Formerly Known As "Young Pitcher," put up a FIP of 4.27 for the Cardinals and Indians last season, while striking out 10.74 batters per 9 innings. Perez is now the Indians' Closer, with Kerry Wood injured. Mo surrendered these two pitchers for three months and three games of Mark DeRosa, who was the proverbial veteran rental and never attained a status above "Plan B" in the Cardinals' 2009-2010 Hot Stove strategy.* It says something that Mo would not give up two prospects for a reliever rental in 2008, but was willing to do so in 2009 for an everyday third baseman rental.
*I am not complaining about this. The Giants overpaid for an aging player entering a phase of his career where his risk of severe decline is very high, especially after the ill-fortuned wrist injury and subsequent surgery.
Recent weeks have again provided a glimpse of Mo's seeming priorities in constructing the Cardinals' roster. Shortly after the above-quoted post by Erik, the Cardinals made a free agent signing, but not of Kiko Calero or John Smoltz. No, Mo made the bargain basement signing of a player in Felipe Lopez who will be an insurance policy at multiple positions and could potentially be our everyday third baseman. I think this is not because Mo has a false sense of security about our bullpen; rather, I think that we the fans feel the need for a Proven Veteran in the bullpen to give us a sense of security that could very well prove false (like the one I personally had going into 2008). We need that Proven Veteran security blanket in the bullpen to assuage our nerves during those fretful late innings.* For Mo, it is not a question of what will make Cardinal Nation--or even possibly his field manager--most comfortable. For Mo, it is a question of what the club truly needs to win a playoff berth. Given his treatment of the Cardinal bullpen and would-be Future Redbird relievers, I believe that Mo does not view the bullpen as a part of the club that is in desperate need of bolstering, or ever will. I believe that he views the cost of making such a signing not to be worth the cost when compared to the potential benefit to the club.** In February, March, April, and May, Mo is perfectly comfortable with the arms the organization has to try out in the bullpen. "Looking at the Roster Matrix, we can trot out Franklin ($3.25MM), McClellan ($400K), Motte ($400K), Boggs ($400K), Hawksworth ($400K), Kinney ($750K), Parise ($400K), Salas ($400K), Samuel ($400K), and Sanchez ($400K). Let's see who can throw strikes and get outs. Fire up the Memphis shuttle, because we will shuffle them around, if we have to, until we find a solution."
*"Runners on second and third with one out in the seventh and the Cards clinging to a one-run lead? Yes, bring in Proven Veteran! He has recorded outs in the past in close games and I feel confident that he will do so again on this idle June Tuesday! For my peace of mind as a fan, his $5MM salary is in no way a roster extravagance!"
**Ah, yes. You are asking me, to yourself, before commenting, "But bgh, Kiko Calero signed a minor league deal with the Metropolitans. That is less than peanuts. That is pitcher-coming-off-corrective-shoulder-surgery money. Get with it, man!" And you are correct. Given Kiko Calero's price, which was very low, it would seem that acquiring him would fit perfectly with what I suggest is Mo's view on the cost of bullpen arms. I cannot refute this argument, and that is why I was a bit upset by Kiko getting away to the Mets. All I can offer is that Mo and the front office do not think that Kiko is the reliever he was in 2009, for whatever reason (perhaps his 4.50 BB/9 in '09 and 5.79 BB/9 in '08?), and that they do not think he is a demonstrable upgrade over the corps of righties that will make up the 2010 Cardinal Bullpen.
While I have serious reservations about Ryan Franklin, Closer, I can't say that I have a problem with Mo's strategy once I started looking at it (despite my previously stated preference for Smoltz or Calero to Lopez). l think he is right to value relievers in the manner that he has, and that this philosophy toward roster construction is another piece in the puzzle of how the Cardinals can afford to keep big ticket stars like Matt Holliday, Albert Pujols, and Adam Wainwright, with a mid-market-ish payroll. You do this by not paying the bullpen over $16MM to give you half that in value. For example, the cut in bullpen cost from 2008 to today equals about half of Matt Holliday's 2010 salary and yet the production from the bullpen did not really suffer from '08 to '09 and likely will not suffer from '08 to '10, even with what seems to be the inevitable regression of Ryan Franklin. To put it another way, relievers are highly fungible and there is no real reason to overpay for an arm that is going to throw well under 100 innings in a season. We as a fanbase are going to have to get used to not having an expensive security blanket sitting beyond the right-center field wall in Busch III, just waiting for a late-inning, high-leverage situation in which he can come in and do what he has done for years. It seems that those days ended with Walt Jocketty leaving town. Instead, a big part of Mo's roster strategy seems to be to fill the bullpen with young, live-armed, and/or low-cost pitchers and then commit resources to the players that win division titles, players like Holliday and Pujols. As much heartburn as it may cause to be experienced, and as many beers (or Franklins, or Bullpens or...) as it may cause to be drank during the late innings, the roster philosophy seems to mean that we the fans of Cardinal Nation will be without a late inning security blanket for at least the early part of the 2010 season, if not beyond, and Mo seems perfectly okay with that. If it necessary to re-signing Albert Pujols, then I am, too.
About the Author:
Last summer, I emailed Az some summaries of a few Memphis vs. Iowa AAA ballgames. Az, with the robotic editorial wisdom that has earned him administrator status on (at least) two of the more prominent fan blogs concerning the St. Louis Cardinals organization, posted them. In so doing, Az pointed out my UID number of 410 here at VEB. I confess that I don’t really know much of anything about computers, and thus, I don’t really know what exactly Az means when he brings up the UID number. The point at which Az was driving, I believe, is that I have been a member of the VEB community for a while. I joined roughly five years ago, during the 2005-2006 Hot Stove if my memory serves me correctly, back when I didn’t really understand that you could have a clever nome de plume, and long before we could have avatars. I have been a regular, if not daily, reader for the duration. My commenting has ebbed and flowed as my school and work schedules allowed. I have also posted Fanposts on occasion. To say that I find it an honor to be allowed to author Main Posts on VEB would be an understatement. VEB has directly caused me to abandon those prejudices given root by my sometimes lying eyes and caused me to make sure that my criticisms and feelings toward players, managerial moves, and roster management are founded. lboros, Houston Cardinal (later, chuckb), Az, Valtan, DanUp, RB, and, more recently, tom s. and vivaelpujols challenged and continue to challenge me to look at the game in a different way and this has given me what I believe to be a better understanding of the game, from the draft to the minutiae of the games.
761 comments
|
10 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Mo's bullpenbuilding strategykind of reminds me of those pre playoff run TB Rays
Basically if you throw enough crap against the wall, some it will stick. Which I really dont have a problem with. IMO releivers are incredibly over valued in the current MLB player market.
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain-abayarde
OT
Whats up with this Kyle Conley kid. Any of you minor league fanatics got a prospect evaluation of him?
YOU ARE OUT of you kuku fufu mine craker laker Flaber baber FUNKI chunki brain-abayarde
Conley was a 7th round pick last year out of the University of Washington
He is 6-foot-4 and hit 19 home runs in both 2008 and 2009 and is tied for the career home run record at Washington (so my notes from last year’s draft shows). I also believe he was reputed to have big holes in his swing, though he had a career .303 BA and .405 OBP in college.
Conley has good power
but poor fielding ability (he’s a LF/1B type) and I think he’s going to get worked over by breaking balls at the upper levels.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
I'm curious how many of those LF/1B types
we have in the system.
Craig, Stavinoha, Hamilton, Conley, Wallace (before he was traded)…
We aren’t an American League team, so grooming a guy to be a DH is not logical.
Why are we stockpiling guys who can mash, but can’t field? I can understand taking a risk on a few picks, but it seems like it is becoming the rule.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Every tean has a lot of these types
and if they mash all the way to the top they make decent trade chips
Think; It's not illegal yet.
Maybe it's that that's what's left by the 7th round?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Apr 9, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
though he had a career .303 BA and .405 OBP in college
That’s kinda the point. .300 BA in college is basically the Mendoza line for any actual prospect.
Not afraid to nitpick
Needs moar jump
but, otoh, great post bgh. I think you might just be onto something there.
I would say, however, the fact we (reportedly, if memory serves) offered Brian Fuentes 2 years and $16m before the start of last season to be our “big money signing” of 2009 (presumably precluding the later Holliday pickup & signing) might somewhat invalidate this analysis. I guess it’s hard to say. I would say that pretty much 95%+ of us here thought that signing Fuentes would be horrible (even after the nightmare of 2008!), which maybe says something about Mo’s valuation of relievers back then. It’s not impossible, however, that he’s learnt his lesson (after Izzy’s 2008 and Fuentes’ 2009-present) and we won’t be seeing big money going on a reliever again.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
One other point I would make in addition to bgh's is this:
Despite recent trades depleting our RH relief depth, we’ve still got a couple guys who could come up this year and very likely succeed. I’m thinking of Salas and Sanchez in particular.
So even if Franklin and Motte turn into eccentrically mound-presenced pumpkins, there are a couple righties who could probably step in and perform better. As bgh points out, the elevated cost of an only marginally better reliever is a waste of resources. I’d rather take my chances on Salas than pay Fernando Rodney $11M over two years.
(Rodney’s of course an extreme example of overpaying for a reliever, but still.)
Again (playing devil's advocate somewhat)...
and I think I’m more sceptical about our bullpen (and BP depth) than most here, but I think we’re often overly optimistic about these things. Salas, realistically, is a nice curveball with decent control who had a good year or two in the lower minors and struggled in AAA with injuries/ineffectiveness. His most likely projection probably calls for him being a replacement-level (or perhaps slightly above) sort of RHRP in the majors (I should point out that I think Fangraphs WAR probably slightly under-rates relievers), the sort of fungible arm we’ve been talking about today. I like him and I hope he gets a shot this year (and I think I like him more than a lot of the guys who know more than me about the minor league system seem to, which gives me pause), but realistically the best-case scenario is probably that he turns into Kyle McClellan.
Sanchez, OTOH, is a lively arm who’s had one year of success at double-A. Pretty much every team in the majors have one or two of those guys, and, though again I like him and hope very much he succeeds, I don’t really think we can just take for granted that he can come straight in and be a great major league reliever, because the majority of those guys either see the K’s dry up or the BB’s swell as they ascend the last two rungs of the ladder and don’t turn into Francisco Rodriguez.
Perez and Motte were both (in various ways) more vaunted or interesting minor league arms, and both, for want of a better term, utterly sucked in their first year-and-a-bit of pitching in the big leagues.
Please don’t interpret this as a plea for paying big bucks for the likes of Rodney or Fuentes on the open market, because I’m very much of the belief that our organisation in particular MUST pretty much produce it’s own bullpen internally to be competitive, but there are certainly (potentially) murky waters ahead. Not having a single sure thing is concerning – sure, if you throw enough shit at the wall, some of it may stick, but it’ll probably still end up stinking.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 9, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
lets not forget
We have quite a bit of quad-A pitching depth in Memphis, which gives us the flexibility of nabbing the higher-upside arms from the starting rotation as well. It isn’t just salas, sanchez, samual and parise, but also ottavino and hill, and maybe even lynn.
by Birds on the Matt on Apr 9, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Hill's a lefty, tho
and unless Miller or Reyes start stinking it up, I don’t see 3 lefties in our ’pen any time soon.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Apr 9, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
although dunc said his dream bullpen has 3 lefties
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I share your concerns
It seems as if Sanchez has been anointed future closer just as Perez was. And you are right he had one good season. He was very good during that season, amazing really, but let’s see if he can do it again.
After Perez/Motte lack of success I am tempering my enthusiasm for AA/AAA relievers. But it is totally possible to catch lightning in a bottle, ala Kinney 2006, and find some to take care of business for a short period of time. That’s what I read in bgh’s post and while it makes me nervous, perhaps that is the most efficient/effective strategy.
But with Pujols and Holiday I want to make sure the Cards win NOW! Every year!
If seems similar to Jocketty/Duncan strategy of getting medium to low grade groundball pitchers that are inexpensive and helping them to win. Part of that strategy was having a great defensive infield to suck up all those groundballs.
For now, if we have less than a 3 run lead going into the ninth, I will be nervous. Cards need to totally outslug the other team.
To me
Salas is my next go to guy in Memphis. For the shear reason he doesn’t walk many people and he can generate swinging strikes
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see how you can say Perez had a lack of success
He was pretty darn good in 2008, and I think he might have been settling in when he was traded. I guess what I am saying is the he never had enough experience to cite a lack of success.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
possibly would not have success under the Duncan system?
perhaps.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
That's like saying Isringhausen
wouldn’t have had success under Duncan or that Haren wouldn’t have had success under Duncan. Yet Duncan wanted both of those pitchers and said so publicly.
Brad Penny’s career numbers don’t scream “Dave Duncan guy”, yet he was the pitcher that both Duncan and the front office wanted.
We take the Anthony Reyes Corollary (a rose colored opinion if there ever was one) too far sometimes, I think. Reyes’ undoing was his declining velocity and not being able to throw the high fastball by people. In that sense, Duncan was right — you can’t get away with that crap at the MLB level unless you throw like Koufax and Ryan. You can dominate the minors like that though, and we’ve seen that from flameouts in the past (Todd Van Poppel comes to mind, as does Brien Taylor).
Just about any pitcher can fit into the Duncan mold. Chris Carpenter doesn’t strike me as a pushover, he strikes me as stubborn and arrogant about his pitching, yet he thrives in the Duncan system. Dave Stewart was a hard throwing fastball/slider pitcher who struck out 8 per 9 innings under Duncan’s tutelage. It can work, you just have to be dedicated to following game plans and dedicated to an overall strategy and not deviating from it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Apr 9, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Preparation, not an undying desire to eliminate anything that can’t produce a double play, is the Duncan “magic”
"I told you, I don't like to be manhandled!"
I was comparing his pitching in Stl with his success in Springfield
I agree that he wasn’t given much of a chance to figure things out. I have no proof but I don’t think DD liked him. He seems to be getting a chance in Cleveland. I hope he succeeds.
I hate to state the obvious but eventually someone will have to come from AA/AAA
not every good player is lightning in a bottle, some actually have careers. try looking for someone that can throw strikes and make bats miss, as flim mentioned Salas is a good bet here
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 9, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, yah
But Motte didn’t walk anyone at AA or AAA and struck out 13 per 9 innings at AAA in 2008. That hasn’t translated into success in the majors, partly because he doesn’t throw 99 mph anymore, and partly because major league hitters can hit just about any fastball if they don’t have to look for anything else. Minor leaguers can’t.
I think we have some possibilities in the minors, but I don’t see anyone that’s yearning to break out as a major league closer. We were lucky to have the good Isringhausen for as long as we did, and we were lucky that Franklin had such a good year last year before the wheels came off. But it’s not like we’ve got a bunch of Jon Broxton’s waiting in the minors — and we can’t even break those guys in with set-up duty because we don’t have a closer. Broxton, Lidge, Wagner — all the good closers seem to make the bigs as middle men and set-up men and then grow into that role. I don’t think we should expect any different from the young guys. The pressure of closing games is unimaginable to most of us.
I think we’re starting to see why teams don’t have a problem ponying up significant dollars for a closer. The good ones, like at any other position in baseball, are really hard to find. Not to mention that there’s really no way to graph the importance of having someone who can consistently close games and how that effects the overall psyche of a team. Losing a ballgame in the ninth inning is the worst way to lose a ballgame. The. Worst. You go in having an expectation of winning, and because one guy can’t get hitters out, you lose. It’s psychologically devastating to your team when this happens, much more than it is losing 8-3 with all the runs coming early. Ask any ballplayer: Would you rather lose 2-1 in the bottom of the ninth after leading 1-0 entering the inning OR 10-1 with the other team scoring 2 runs every inning in the first 5 innings. I think most would choose the latter because it’s a whole lot less painful to lose in that fashion “Well, we just didn’t have it today, we’ll get them tomorrow” vs. “How the FUCK did we lose that game”.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Apr 9, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would alter that
a little to say that there’s nothing worse than losing when you have a lead going into the last inning. And in my mind, I separate that catastrophe — a blown save — from what happened yesterday. The biggest frustration in a game like yesterday’s wasn’t losing on the road on a walk-off; it was going into the 9th on the road in a tie game in which the BOBs had four measly hits. In our angst about the bullpen we are too quick to forget about what all the rest of the Cardinal players did to fail to win that game.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 9, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he did.
Except for the inning where, with 2 outs, he gave up a double to a backup catcher at the end of an 8-pitch at bat, and followed that by giving up a single to the pitcher. Frankly, that rankled me more than Motte’s sins.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 9, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoops,
I was referring to Penny, not Arroyo.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 9, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
and maybe
scott f. rolen at least 3 cardinal base hits
and maybe there was a dumb infield fly rule call
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Yeah that call was horrible
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 9, 2010 5:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i think i missed a word there
rolen accidentally the whole offense
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Did the Sleep Cycle app ever start working better for you?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
doesn't sound like it
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yes it did
very mountainous.
i still have a hell of a time getting up in the morning, though
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I thought I did say that pretty well
I’m talking about “blown saves”, when you go in having an expectation of winning and you end up getting beat because your “closer” gets shelled by the opposing team. Giving up a gopher ball occasionally in a tie ballgame when your closer isn’t going to be pitching anyway is going to happen, but you can put that on your offense for not scoring runs or your starting pitcher for giving up to many.
How many years were Red Sox fans victimized by stuff like this? Bucky Fucking Dent and Aaron Fucking Boone didn’t get their middle names because they hit a homer in the fourth inning of a 6-2 game in August. “The Shot Heard ’Round the World” wasn’t in the 4th inning of a game in the middle of June.
Players are human too, and I think it weighs heavily when you lose like that, just like us Cardinal fans still piss and moan about the damn Denkinger call, and Sox fans about Buckner, Dent, and Boone.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Im not saying we are stocked with closers down there
Im just Saying after all te years of jocketty we tend to assume any prospect who isn’t ankiel/pujols is worthless and though our minors aren’t that good and media and other fans way overvalue some prospects, we tend to undervalue them
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 9, 2010 5:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think this is true though
I don’t think most of us here undervalue Skip, Boog, Freese, Molina, Wainwright, or Rasmus. Do you?
I think the problem is that we’ve not graduated very many good relievers in the TLR/Duncan era here in St. Louis when:
- We did this all the time under Whitey, AND
- We watch teams like the Braves and Rangers constantly stock their bullpens with cheap, live arms while we are unable to do so.
When was the last time we had a closer (save WW in ‘06 because he’s more valuable as a starter) come out of our minor league system? We had Eck, then a bunch of also rans like Acevedo, Veres, and the like who were signed or acquired by trade, then Izzy, then Franklin, who was acquired by trade. We tried Perez and he didn’t stick and traded him away. We’re just not developing those guys like we used to.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
we just graduate them to the wrong place
check out this right side of a pen
perez
gregerson
perdomo
oops. not that any of those (except perdomo) are really anyone’s fault. i think the cards have caught a tough break recently of trading the wrong ones.
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Subterfuge?
It seems conceivable and entirely consistent to me that Mo made that offer to Fuentes not expecting him to take it. I’ve got to think that he had some idea of what the market was-maybe even from Fuentes’ reps themselves. That “offer” may have been more to placate our manager than to make a ‘real’ run at acquiring an expensive closer. Hearts and minds of men and all that.
I suppose it's possible
but I just don’t think major league GMs work like that. There was (it seemed at the time) a very real chance that we ended up with Fuentes, with that offer on the table. I’m not sure it’s worth the risk of ending up paying $16m (or whatever) for a player you didn’t really want just to force the price up a few million for a team that we’ll only ever face in some hypothetical distant World Series.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 9, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Not suggesting he did it solely to drive the price up. That would be a significant gamble, although Mo may have valued his “worth” at say $10m (making the ‘gamble’ $6m, not $16). But to further my original hypothesis, he may have made that offer knowing that a much better offer was on the table and there was literally no chance Fuentes would take it. Not being in the room, and even more so than that, in Mo’s head, none of us will ever know for sure. Not saying that is what happened, but it is in my mind a reasonable explanation, consistent with his other actions, of his perspective on a bullpen.
Righteous post.
VEB’s got a problem: even it’s AAA insurance depth is capable of putting up All-Star caliber posts at a moment’s notice. It’s a problem I imagine most blogs would like to have.
/streched baseball metaphor.
by arch support on Apr 9, 2010 9:08 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Kinney?
For what? To fetch coffee for the coaches? Heh.
that's why we're the best fans!
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Over
By about 2 weeks
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 9, 2010 9:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I hope i did that correctly
I meant end of may
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 9, 2010 9:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Under
I think Salas is up soon if Hawksworth doesn’t recover and TLR doesn’t have any faith in Boggs.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 9, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
For those who are wondering why did I suggest Kinney as an option
b/c he’s been there and that’s the type of move I’d potentially see the club make if he’s pitched decent in AAA to that point. I’d see it as possibly a last chance effort for Kinney, and if he fails yet again, he’s gone and Salas takes his place.
Good Stuff....
…although I see no quick-fix on the horizon, apart from a FA signing (Smoltzy, I’m lookin’ right atcha). Seeing cow some of the Baby Birds develop will also play into the matter – I am especially intrigued by Salas.
Still too early, IMO to panic; let’s see cow things shake out in the first 6 weeks, while the team is still ‘gelling’.
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Addendum on Calero:
I read this Jayson Stark piece rather late last night and it seems to shed light on why Kiko Calero, after a good season, was a free agent for so long, and then only managed to get a minor-league deal.
Bullpen roulette: Kiko Calero allowed 36 hits in 60 innings for the Marlins last year. Mike MacDougal pulled into Washington last year and saved more games (20) after June 15 than Francisco Rodriguez. So where are they now? In Triple-A. Naturally.
It tells you all you need to know about the fickle nature of modern relief pitchers that, even as two dozen teams were desperately hunting for bullpen upgrades late in spring training, nobody would touch either of those two men after they failed to make the Mets and Nationals’ staffs, respectively. (MacDougal, for that matter, couldn’t make two teams — the Marlins, who released him, and then the Nationals, who sent him to the minors.)
“With Calero,” said an executive of one team that passed, "the medicals are so bad that everybody’s wary. It’s just hard to count on him staying together [physically] for any length of time at all.
So, there you have it. Grave health concerns about Kiko were enough to scare off every single club as to a MLB contract for him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I Forgive You....
…for your moniker, which stands for Bovine Growth Hormone.
Drink organic moo juice!!!
:=8O
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
So?
Isn’t that what incentives are for? How would a league minimum deal with incentives for 20-30-40-50 appearances not make this team better?
Not afraid to nitpick
After all,
we did sign Rich Hill to a nearly identical deal, didn’t we? Of course, Hill is returning from labrum surgery while it seems that Kiko may have some sort of surgical procedure in his near future. Perhaps that is why Mo balked.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Mo has a move to first base?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
maybe he's Andy Pettitte
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Great post, bgh. . .
I don’t know that there is much of a difference in the success rate of the two competing bullpen philosophies (i.e. high cost vs. low cost).
On the high cost side of the ledger, you can get a 2007 (good) or a 2008 (horrible).
On the low cost side of the ledger, our memories are of a (somewhat uneasily) successful 2009, but for every 2009, you can also get a 1999 (24 blown saves).
I am still an advocate of the low cost approach, if just because relief pitching is such an unpredictable commodity, for a variety of reasons. With the exception of perhaps the top four or five closers in the game in any given year, relievers are relievers because of some flaw, even in these days of specilalization and relative overvaluing of closers (i.e. not good enough stuff to be a starter, not durable enough, injury prone, etc.). Couple “flawed” pitchers with a small sample size, and you get a lot of volatility.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Apr 9, 2010 10:26 AM EDT reply actions
well put southside
I think I agree with every word you typed
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 9, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Not me
I didn’t like the words “if just because”. Everything else was ok, tho.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Apr 9, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, nothing rankles me more than those three words
i was doing well to ignore them until you brought it up, though.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think I may have an alterior motive for Mo
I totally agree with bgh and his post about Mo’s thoughts regarding the bullpen. However, I think that Mo and Lunhow have identified young RH pitchers (namely relievers) as their ticket to a cheap bullpen and also currency in the trade market. It seems that every team is looking for relief help at trade time and if you have a shit load of relievers in the system you can afford to part with some of them. Obviously the trades for K Greene and Derosa didn’t turn out like we wanted, but the Cardinals still did get to the playoffs in 2009 which, from year to year, is all we can really expect.
I think that Mo and Lunhow are going to continue drafting this same type of player and keep using them for trades and also waiting for the proverbial shit to stick to the wall. They will then lock that player/s up through his arb years (ala Molina and Wainwright and soon to be Raz) and viola, 4-5 years of a low cost quality reliever.
When a reporter asked Gaylord Perry's 5-year-old daughter if her father threw a spitball, she replied, "It's a hard slider."
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 9, 2010 10:37 AM EDT reply actions
I wonder though
if Mo might jack up their worth a bit. In other words, he won’t toss two of ’em away (possibly our best two) for a plan B veteran.
Unless, of course, he thinks the next crop is as good or better and maturing quickly. Was he smiling at their performance in spring training?
UIDs
i love when when get into discussion of UIDs! mine is in the 400’s, as i’ve been a member since early 2006. hard to believe it’s been 4+ years.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 10:41 AM EDT reply actions
actually, yours doesn't show up
you can thank your name change for that.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Suck it.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Apr 9, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
HFS!!!!
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
it's like some kind of weird blog movie
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
You wanna get high?
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
bgh just beat me
we joined VEB on the same day, he’s 410, i’m 411! damn!
Future Redbirds! www.futureredbirds.net
Rams Gab! www.ramsgab.com
i wish i could remember my old ID
stupid 4 digit UID
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
same here, I don't think I ever posted under it
but I read a lot under it. I might have rec’d Larry a time or two
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
yours is 1005, gdm.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
he means he had a former ID that he can't remember
At least I think he does, cuz that’s what I’m talking about! I can’t remember my original VEB ID, either.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
yours is 2305
it’s not that hard. if you were around before the format change, you have a UID on your profile page.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
GAH
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Apr 9, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i'm telling you
i’m one of the smartest people on this board. just sayin’
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
(slaps 8 in cock on keyboard)
akdsfja;lksdjf;lkajsdf;lkajsdf’kjasd;lkfja;ldfskj
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i think i come off as not that smart sometimes to people
because i suck at writing. i fail at putting my thoughts down on a piece of paper (or into a computer) in a concise, well written manner. i know what i want to say in my head, but it always sounds different once i actually say/write it.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I used to be smrt
before the brain damage
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
you mean when you had to change your UID?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish
Let’s just say Jimmy Ballgame has nothing on me when it comes to concussions
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I believe it
I had severe concussion with a skull fracture & subdural hematoma and had to spend a week in speech and memory rehab. my wife, fiance at the time, thought she was screwed. followed that up with another concussion & hematoma less than a year later, and my brain just isn’t the same
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Wow! I had a compressed skull fracture
but none of the lasting effects you talk about, what happened?
Belief that success is inevitable is as likely to hold you back as a belief that it is impossible.
I've luckily never had a subdural hematoma
I’ve had a couple severe concussions, and several more less so.
The aphasia has already kicked in, and that’s what pisses me off the most. I can get by being not as intelligent as I used to be, but the loss or words that I know are in there…that really pisses me off.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
A couple of mild concussions here
nothing major, though I did black out for a minute or so both times. The cooker was the heart attack at 45 (fortunately, also mild by comparison). That woke me up.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Apr 9, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I am probably the worst writer on this board
I feel confident in my ability to have the most grammatical errors per post. But I feel pretty confident in saying that most people on the board would qualify me as ‘intelligent’
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
i feel the same way
intelligent is probably a better word to use. though i don’t know if everyone on here would qualify me as intelligent.
i just wish i had half the ability of fourstick. that would make my day.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
That all seemed pretty grammatical
And I don’t think many people who have the gall to write on a board like this are going to be “stupid”
Yes, we do
and even tho I (and others) rib you sometimes about the errors, I prefer that you’re on here writing.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Apr 9, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh I'm an engineer
I’m sure I have the inside track on you by default.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
no dude, i meant this isn't my original user name
i joined early 06 but never posted, just read. then something happened that i can’t remember, probably had something to do with my dad at the time & i couldn’t log in so i made this gdm426 one
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
it was whenever SBNation switched over to its new format
It seemed like a lot of us just started new ID’s than
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
you know, that's probably what it was
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
oh.
well then you have mister eff/alxfritz syndrome.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think I would ever post if I did find it
I am quite sure I made that account during one of the losing streaks in ’06, so I probably made quite the crude nickname in a state of being extremely drunk.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I remember the email addy that I used
but the email service seems to think it doesn’t exist.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
i don't know what happened to my email
i still use it but there’s nothing VEB related there
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
I just found it and tried to log in
I think SBN & hotmail have a conspiracy going against me
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
also, not a fan of the cubbie blue links (as opposed to red)
/i swear i’m going to do this post justice in a second by reading and responding
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 10:47 AM EDT reply actions
The counter piece to this is probably
The fanpost I did awhile back on the Bullpen projections. CHONE projects to have one of the better bullpens in baseball this year. Now ZIPS disagrees with this projection.
Also, if Mo signed another bullpen arm. Who would get kicked out of the bullpen? Motte, Boggs, or Hawksworth? Motte and Boggs even with their limitations have potential to be above average. And Hawksworth is out of options. So he would have to pass through waivers to put him back in the minors.
I think in the end Mo makes the right strategy. Let those 3 work it out. If one them falters too bad and has to go. Replace him with either Salas or Parise.
on tv!
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll add my praise to the chorus, bgh.
Great stuff. I’m liking the way Mo’s constructed this ‘pen, especially with the proven value we have in the rotation (yes, I know injury can change that, but injury can change anything). My only real concern is that if, as seems highly likely, Franklin regresses to simply Decent Reliever as opposed to the Untouchable Stopper that we got most of last year, how long will it take TLR to stop using him solely as Untouchable Stopper, especially if a better option presents itself? (Granted, I have no clue what that better option might be, but still…we can’t always rely on a reliever who’s clearly ineffective to fall on his sword like Izzy did in ’08.)
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
Nice job bgh.
I’m going to time-travel for a minute. I know that past-precedence does not predict future results, when you are talking 25 years and not even the same players, other than it has been done before. Let’s look at the Cardinals of the 80’s. After Sutter walked, we didn’t really have that big-name veteran closer. They used a patch-work quilt bullpen and had a pretty good result with it. Granted, you can say that they never won the WS with that approach, but they were pretty much always in contention, especially with going to the WS twice more over the course of the decade. It can be looked at another way as well, that had the offense performed better then possibly that would have taken the bullpen out of the equation.
You need production from the bullpen, that isn’t ever in doubt, but if the offense does it’s job most of the time, then it makes it easier for the bullpen to do it’s job. I’m not saying that you need a great offense and a scrap heap bullpen. Just that the idea of not needing a high dollar bullpen isn’t necessary.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Apr 9, 2010 11:00 AM EDT reply actions
*the idea of needing a high-dollar bullpen isn't necessary
/proof read it dummy
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Apr 9, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Looking to move downtown STL
My buddy is buying a house at the corner of S Broadway and Chippewa. I am just wondering if anyone knows what the area is like around there
Check out
this site for some statistics from the SLMPD.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't look good
Between Gravois Park and Dutchtown that is some of the worst crime indexs.
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Hence the phrase
“This Mexican food is to die for.”
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
haha
it probably is good though
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
it's no El Gallo
right Chitown?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I enjoy El Cid in Chicago
that place is good
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
don't go sober
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Taqueria El Bronco
is our favorite. I used to play basketball with the owner’s nephew (or something) and he turned me on to them when we first moved here. God I love those people.
(insert: "What do you mean ‘those people’ joke here)
My joke failed.
(walks away with head down)
P.S. Josh has been in touch with you, right?
You can read it in any tone you like.
I know I know....got it.
Keep your head up!
And yeah, Josh called me the other day. Thanks for following up!
this is my favorite one
location of homicides in the st. louis area in 2010.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah I was looking for something like that
i would probably start carrying a gun again.
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
In reality
East STL is not as much of a problem as it used to be for the shear reason no one lives there.
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really downtown
It’s a cool area but a little sketchy. Great Latin/Mexican food down the street though.
If you want to get to specifics
this site allows you to search for incidents by address (full or partial).
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Owning a house on a busy street gets real old, real fast. . .
at the corner of two busy streets would be even worse, I would think.
The Benton Park neighborhood (S and W of Soulard) would be better, and less sketchy.
The same is true of the neighborhoods in and around Tower Grove Park (even further south and west, but still in the city, maybe 10 min from downtown).
by SouthsideCardsFan on Apr 9, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
The man reason he would be buying the house is
for the 6 car garage and shop. We fix up cars and sell them. The house is a shit hole though. It has dirt floors in the basement. I never even knew that shit still was around.
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Sounds shady.
You never know what a house like that used to be used for.
Could’ve been a gang hideout or a drug house.
I’m sure you have already/will, but do some research!
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait
There’s a house in downtown St. Louis with a 6 car garage? AND a dirt basement floor?
That’s just wacked. I’d like to check out that neighborhood.
They kept building onto the house
It is pretty big. Like 3500 sq ft
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll just say this
Looking around that intersection on google maps, it looks like a line of business along Broadway, and then high density housing behind that (apartments etc.) especially to the southwest . It’s the kind of area that’s cheap, but you can’t leave tools sitting out, if you know what I mean.
OTOH, if you’ve got a 6 car garage, you don’t have to leave tools out!
It's not downtown. . .
There is actually a new “subdivision” just a few blocks west of there on the north side of Chippewa, FWIW, east of Grand. Kind of sticks out like a sore thumb.
As far as garage/shop/house combos, you could probably find similar set-ups (not identical, certainly) in a bit better neighborhoods, not that the S.Broadway/Chippewa intersection is all that bad (there are certainly worse neighborhoods in the city). I might look farther south on Broadway (around the Holly Hills/Loughborough intersections). Or maybe up and down Morganford south of Chippewa. Heck, from driving through there, I’d bet you could get some pretty cheap mixed use property along South Kingshighway or just off of it.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Apr 9, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
That's pretty far south man...
I’ve been here just less than 1 year (in May), but I feel like I’ve gotten to know the city (especially south city) fairly well. As others have pointed out, that’s a pretty downtrodden area.
The only thing makes me think it is not to horrible of an area
Is that a QT is next door
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I do want to live downtown
If my work will closer to downtown than I won’t have to live in Saint Charles anymore. I personally want to live Walking distance from Busch Stadium
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I am now looking at just some 1 bed room lofts on Spruce St
I literally want to live as close to Busch Stadium as possible. So every day I have off I can go to a ball game
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Google maps said it was only a 4 min walk to the stadium
My main job is next to a metrolink station so I can just leave my car there when I don’t need it. Instead of parking it downtown. Just would have to get a monthly metrolink pass
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
i looked into living downtown two years ago
spent about a month in the city. i had been dreaming of living close to Busch for years. i found it wasn’t all it was cracked to be & not at all what i dreamed about. the traffic, lack of space, it just wasn’t what i really want.
all i’m saying is do your homework. make sure this is really what you want. there’s only 81 games a year & you can’t go to them all. what are you going to do with the other 300 some odds days of the year living close to the park? do you really want to put up with the downtown life? for me the answer was no.
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
there probably cooler bars and stuff downtown too, eh?
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
that pretty much sums up why I want to move downtown
cooler bars and stuff downtowns.
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I am still looking into it
But I want to move downtown for multiple reasons. I won’t have to drive much anymore. I wouldn’t move downtown if I couldn’t take metrolink on a regular basis. The new Schnucks downtown would give me some options in regards to grocery’s. Biggest reason though is I want to start partying again. Ain’t much of a party in Saint Charles without drinking and driving. I would like to hit up bars more often.
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
well there you go, i hope you find what you're looking for
the only reason i wanted to live there was to be close to Busch, once i realized that wasn’t a good 365 day a year plan, i stopped dreaming
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
Not like I would get seasons tickets or not
But I would like to go to 10+ games a year
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
that's about what i would go to as well
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
You know
Like I am off from work and a game is going on. Try to grab a cheap scalped ticket or the occasional VEBer with an extra ticket.
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It sure is.
I think I only paid for tickets two times last year. I went to something like 8 games.
You can read it in any tone you like.
Speaking of tickets
Anyone else subscribe to Gameday magazine?
I wanna know how to get my free f’in tickets!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I'm gonna get to go to more games than I have in a long time
and that’s probably only going to be 6 or so.
Have I mentioned how much I hate you St Louisan VEB’ers?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
i don't hate them, i hate myself for not being one of them
i have no one else to blame for that epic fail
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
Hate was the wrong word
Love. I love them!
I hope I didn’t blow my chance at free drinks from our lovely St Louis VEB’ers
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
there are some i love more than others
you know who you are
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
i just don't want to drive at all
Like ever. I would prefer it take a little longer and just take metrolink
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Too many damn hippies at CWE for me
Uses to work down there
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Take a drive around..
if you see multiple liquor stores or check cashing places… don’t move there. That’s the criteria I’ve always used for potential housing locations.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
+1 on check cashing barometer
The people either dumb or desperate enough to pay 500% APR or whatever on a loan are not the people you want to live around.
Not afraid to nitpick
I've that most of the liquor stores
are either in the ghetto or on a busy street… not a fun place to be living.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
They are EVERYWHERE in the city, though.
The corner of Kingshighway/Chippewa only has one of it’s historical buildings left and it’s nothing but Tax shops, Cash advances, and a traffic law center.
You stay classy St. Louis.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
I'm sure I could find a random block similar
if it took a detour through the south side of Chicago on the way home… but still never a good sign when those things are popping up. It’s a good indicator you still have some work to do as a city.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
He lives in St. Charles.
It’s “downtown” as soon as he crosses the city limits.
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Apr 9, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
"But...but...where are all the antique shops???"
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
by splhcb67 on Apr 9, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
HA
QT…now that’s a good barometer! The golden rule of real estate is that you can’t change location, right?
Seriously though, maybe your buddy is getting a great deal and the money/house dynamic is really all that matters (i.e., very little cash for a house that has a buttload of garages for your car flipping biz) in this case. However, in terms of resale, appreciation, etc., I would be very diligent before getting too far into a purchase agreement for anything anywhere close to that area.
The house is a shit hole right now
But he is also only paying like $50K for it
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Buy a house for the price of a VCR!!!
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
Shit
In Detroit you can buy a house for the price of a lottery ticket
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh.
There’s a $15K house at the corner of Gravois and Pestalozzi, although it probably doesn’t include a 6 car garage/oilput/dirt floor basement.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Apr 9, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah this house has a big back lot that is closed off
We currently own 15 cars so we need the space
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
so classics, hot rods, muscle cars? or just daily driver types?
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
It's not THAT bad of a neighborhood, though there are nicer neighborhoods surrounding it.
You can read it in any tone you like.
I thank the baseball gods
we fans have a Cardinal crisis to chew on right out of the gate in the first week of the season. With a stacked lineup and our starters all sound, we’d be relegated to complaining about where TLR bats Luddy or if Ras should move to the #2 hole. What providence for us to have a real (as opposed to imagined) crisis on our hands.
very well done post, bgh
i like the way it way set up, and your notes as the bottom of paragraphs explaining what you really mean. nice touch.
i like the way the bullpen has been constructed, i really do. all the options we have are cheap, and like you said it allows the organization to pursue big time hitters like holliday and pujols instead of having 8-10M+ tied up in one (or several) arms down in the bullpen that are going to pitch less than 100 innings in a year. the cardinals do have some live, young arms available and can keep the memphis train rolling all year should the two we have on the roster right now (boggs and hawksworth) struggle at any point this year.
the only beef i have with this strategy is how well the cardinals will be able to perform in the postseason without a true, bona fide, shutdown closer. you can outscore people most of the year with your offense (perfect example: opening day) and cruise to 85-90 wins and win the division, but the chances of doing that in the playoffs are not very high, you’re going to get someone’s #1 or #2 starter every night, and playoffs games usually come down to which bullpen can hold off their opponents the longest. this was very evident last year in the playoffs (beside the fact that the cardinals didn’t hit), as wainwright had a superb outing that was ruined by ryan franklin.
the one year the cardinals had a good closer ready to go in the ‘pen, they won the world series. i’m not saying the cardinals need to invest big bucks in the position, but having a guy i could actually trust coming out of the bullpen and shutting down the opposition in the ninth would be a good idea. that’s the one player in the bullpen i think the cardinals should spend a little more on, and i’d even give up a player or two on offense in order to have the money to sign someone like that*
or, you know, it could have been chris perez. but we won’t get into that.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions
No, we will not get into Chris Perez.
I am still sore about trading him.
I will quibble with you on one point.
the one year the cardinals had a good closer ready to go in the ‘pen, they won the world series.
In ‘06, I think, the postseason bullpen really resembled the one we have now. TLR tended to go to Kinney, Tyler Johnson, and Adam Wainwright, none of whom were late-inning guys early on and two of whom were called up mid-season. Isringhausen was injured, of course, but up to that point, he had been a good, if not great, closer for the Cards. Take a look at his stats. In ’02, he had an xFIP of 2.90 (2.48 ERA); in ’03, xFIP of 3.57 (ERA of 2.36, and, yes, I know we didn’t make the playoffs); in ’04, xFIP of 3.48 (ERA of 2.87); and, in ’05, xFIP of 3.80 (ERA of 2.18). I believe that 2006—a year in which I witnessed one of his ten blown saves, at Busch III, versus the Cubs (!)—and 2008 have somewhat dampened our view of Izzy as Closer. But, he was incredibly reliable for us in the first half of the decade, and was often excellent.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Perez
Watched the end of the Sox/Indians game last night, and Perez was dealing. Sad.
"But as the leadoff guy that inning, my job is to get on base and let guys drive me in." - Albert Pujols 8/20/09, base-clogger.
I thought that we agreed we weren't going to talk about this.
I saw Perez pitch in AAA and saw his big-league debut against the Rays. At that point, I had a nostalgic attachment to him. Add to this my inclination against trading for rentals and, well, I think we can cease this discussion.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
But I wanted to say that I think by the end of this season
I will hate Mark DeRosa. Really, that’s is the way it should be. Cardinal fans should not like someone is seemingly deitified ( that might not be a real word) in Cubs fan’s minds.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
that's the one
GOBs forgive me?!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
it's all TLR's fault though isn't it?
he got on Rolen’s bad side, and Rolen forced a trade. then santa glaus decided he wanted a year off & then TLR flipped a coin & it landed on suckston instead of Barden who did nothing wrong but win ROM. so obvy he needed to be taught a lesson & the GOB’s saw fit that said coin flip landed in suckstons favor. rooks gotta know their rolls & shut their mouths don’tcha know.
then seeing the mess he made, TLR huffed & puffed & held his breath till DeWitt & Co were forced to literally give up the farm for DeRo. who just so happened to break his f’ing wrist & was as useful with the stick as GDM is with his in the Bunny Ranch.
so don’t hate DeRo. he’s just a bit part in the game TLR plays
i know Rolen was hurt, still, wouldn’t you rather have a 50% Rolen & YP & DESTROYER than the mess we are in now?
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
not sure we could afford rolen
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Oh no painful Izzy flashbacks
I went to Detroit for the regular season series that year. I remember Saturday nite game the Cards were up by a couple runs and some of the fans in front of us were leaving. They were congratulating me on the win… I told them they should stay since any game with Izzy was far from certain… Luckily Izzy made a soothsayer out of me.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
my post wasn't meant to be a shot at izzy
but i can see how you would take it that way, which was my fault. i am in total agreement with you that izzy was very good/borderline dominant in 2003-2005. he had some great years with the club when he first arrived, and there is no denying it. the reason the cardinals didn’t win in 2004 or 2005 wasn’t because of izzy, it was because the offense went cold at a bad time. (well, 2005 had other issues with other parts of the bullpen as well).
i was more referring to the time since the world series win. sans the 2007 team (which just wasn’t that good), 2008 and 2009 both had teams that were at least comparable to the 2006 team, but just didn’t have the solid closer in the playoffs. the cards snuck into the playoffs in 2006 and everyone thought they weren’t going to go very far, but ended up winning the world series because of great pitching from the first inning to the ninth inning. last year’s team lacked that great closer (after he lost his touch/luck from the regular season) and got swept in the first round (again, offense going cold notwithstanding). some would even argue the 2009 team was better than the 2006 team, but the 2009 team just didn’t have a dominant closer to shut the door like wainwright in 2006.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't read it as a shot at Izzy...
just brought up a lot of old painful memories…
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
oh i know
i was responding to bgh.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I figured as much...
just wanted to let you know one person didn’t read it as a shot at Izzy.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
We rag on Izzy a lot. And I've done it, too. Especially in 2008.
I was looking at his stats earlier this offseason and I was reminded of how good he was when he first arrived. So, I’ve been trying to defend him and have my ears perked up a bit in that regard. So, I apologize. I took that more as a blanket statement about the teams of the Aughts as opposed to 2006 as the starting point of your analysis. I apologize.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Apr 9, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, it's fine
i just wanted to make sure that you understood my point correctly.
a long, long time ago, larry did a post categorizing izzy’s saves in 2006, which prompted me to do a similar post categorizing his 2005 saves (that you commented on! holy crap!). long story short, he was absolutely dominant in 2005.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It's true
Our bullpen in ‘06 is pretty similar to this one, but we didn’t win the World Series without a great closer, we just lucked into having Adam Wainwright become that guy (and Jeff Suppan being lights out for 3 weeks, and Anthony Reyes winning Game 1…I mean, a LOT of shit went right for us to win the World Series that year!)
I think fang’s point is pretty prevalent when looking around baseball: There aren’t too many teams that get deep in the postseason without a fairly effective guy at the back of the bullpen who can get outs in tight situations, and that the Cardinals really haven’t had that guy since Izzy in 2007. The Phillies had a pretty awful bullpen last year, but at least it was full of guys who’d done it before (like Madson and Lidge) and who could at anytime go on a streak of unhittability over a number of weeks.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i agree
and when i wrote that post up, it became more and more clear to me that it’s true all around baseball, not just with the cardinals. like i said, everything is magnified in the playoffs, and teams aren’t able to outscore other teams anymore to make the bullpen a non-factor.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
"full of guys who'd done it before"
That’s true, but that’s also expensive. Lidge cost $12M, after all, last season, and Chan Ho was $2.5M. Heck, Ryan Madson cost $2.3M.
Oh, and Brad Lidge’s 7.61 ERA chuckles heartily at your contention that he could at anytime go on a streak of unhittability over a number of weeks. By my count, he had exactly 13 1-2-3 innings (out of 67 appearances), and one or two more where he only had to get 1 or 2 outs and did so without allowing a runner.
Paying top dollar for a closer may not be quite as much of a crapshoot as scrounging around the garbage, but it’s still a crapshoot.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Apr 9, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree on MO's perceived mindset regarding relievers
I also think that he has a “these are my guys, I am gonna stick with em” approach. Of course I might be wrong, but has he made a non-organizational bullpen addition since he as been retired? I just hope that when they first call up someone from Memphis to steady the pen, it will be someone other than Kinney. My hairline just can’t take the though of that.
And I am definitely not reading all that!
Wait, I think I did that all wrong.
Great Post BGH
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
line stealer! your a gotdamned line stealer!
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
really should have slapped one of those on it
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
Free agents I'd be interested in taking a look at
IF the price was right.
Chad Bradford – last pitched in 2009 for the Rays, career ERA of 3.26…why does this guy not have a job? Injuries?
Braden Looper – I think this option has been discussed a lot…no need to go into detail
Russ Springer – another retread, enough said
Not according to anything I've seen.
Plus he’s only 36, I think.
Didn’t suffer any major injury that I know of either.
It’s a mystery. Or moostery, if you prefer.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
good read, bgh
Your analysis confirms how I have viewed the Cards recent approach to team construction. With Holliday’s contract, Pujols’ forthcoming one, and Raz’ continued development, the Cards will have to go cheap on the bullpen for the next 6-7 years. And, as others have said, righthanded relievers are pretty fungible – many more are likely on the way throughout the Cards minor-league system. Future success for the team will also require low-cost starters, which are hopefully on the way (or here with Garcia) with Lynn, Ottavino (another potential reliever), and Miller. On the current staff, I really like the future potential of Boggs – give this boy some experience this year and he may develop into a pretty good closer. I have many more doubts on Motte ever seeing much success.
Boggs looked pretty darn good yesterday.
Good velocity. Good location.
Consistency is going to be the key for him though.
We saw when he spot-started that he could be pretty close to lights out one inning and erratic the next.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's hope he keeps doing innings like that
so he gets more work.
didn't get a chance to comment during the game
as much as the lack of offense and Motte developing a reputation of early season BS’s was saddening, I went away pleased with Penny & Boggs
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I agree. I was disappointed they didn't let him have a second inning.
You can read it in any tone you like.
Same here.
The result might’ve been slightly different, I feel. Ah, well, we won the series.
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
excellent post
I understand and appreciate that Mo chooses the low cost bullpen strategy. As a corollary of that strategy, he appears willing to let other teams overpay for relievers whose sample sizes are small and whose variability is high.
BUT frankly, I’m nervous in the ninth, and I want John Smoltz.
had the first rec
good work.
however, my only response around 5am was “Mark DeRosa. I have a sad.”
on the other hand, what are we to do? do we stockpile shortstops, or do we stockpile arms?
maybe we should stockpile shortstop/pitchers.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
You can never have to many short stop prospects
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
aren't we running low, currently?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
We got a couple all Glove SS's in the lower minors
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
gotcha
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
The guy I am hoping is going to have a breakout season is
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
do we have a rule to get Ryans?
or should people just name their kids Ryan and teach them the shortstop position…..
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I think we have the market cornered on white middle infielders.
At least in recent years.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
but we'll never have Jack Wilson, now, ghostrider
we’ll never have Jack Wilson.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Where did he end up?
The team escapes me…
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
say, how'd Big Z do?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
you chafing in this new memocracy?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm loving it.
Nothing like encouraging creativity.
Keeps it fresh.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Mariners
Signed for 2/10m
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
um....yeah!
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone else hear anything about this
Instead of Ballpark Village, They are going to put a Walmart there
I know a lot of people don’t like Walmart. But if I was living downtown I would love a Walmart near by
Wal-Mart, classy.
Why not a Huck’s and a Show-Mes?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Damnit
It was an April fools joke. God I hate that day on the internet now
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
FAIL.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be all for more grocery stores
I’m boring. but hey, how else to get bacon?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
They could make it a pig farm.
Shannon: Hee hee, it’s time for Cardinal baseball. The smell of pig shit is in the air.
Rooney: That’s right Mike. It’s Oscar Meyer Make Your Own Bacon Day at the ballpark.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
heh heh heh
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I was gonna say...
I don’t think Wal-Mart is heading back to the city anytime soon.
You can read it in any tone you like.
Really hate to see Walmart losing business like that
Makes my heart break a 1000 times over.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
it's ruined the interwebs, it really has
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
it has
It is not like I am reading this shit on April 1st. So how I am supposed to know it is a prank.
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i read the first paragraph, the looked for comments to see because that's just didn't seam kosher to me
i had heard nothing about that at all. you’d think it would have made the PD, GD & the news stations if that was going to happen
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
Goold talks about our exes
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I do actually know where So and John Rodriguez are.
too easy, Goold.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Rasmus is playing chess with the pitcher?!!!
i’m blinded
by the future
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and lastly, food.
A quick skitter around the Web for details reveals that Sunday is indeed a holiday. It’s two, in fact: National Cheese Fondue Day
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Braintwins, at it again.
We’re already in mid-season form.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
exceelllent.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
well, you're going to have to hold down the fort
I may be absent for the game thread. hopefully be back around to add vidlinks and give out merit badges.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Is the mix tape in full effect this year?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
it's kind-of happening, but I'm not in charge of it
it’s migrated to songs I don’t know, anyway. a hiphop and R&B specialist may be needed.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm no help when it comes to that....
now when they get back to K Billy’s Super Sounds of the 70’s, I may be some help.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm already losing my 80s knowledge, too.
we need andi_k. she scooped an entire, actual mix CD last year.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and this
Last season, Rasmus went an entire month (June) without a walk, and he had just nine through his first 30 games.
wow
walkapotamoose!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Rodriguez with the Yanks still?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Carpenter pitching on National Cheese Fondue Day?
Stick a fork in the Brewers.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 9, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
one time Prince Fielder turned around too fast, and that happened.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
BGH -
Who do you think you are – Joe Posnanski?
Just kiddin. Good post.
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Apr 9, 2010 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I meant to make some mention
of enjoying the Posnanski-esque footnotes, but forgot. Thanks for the reminder, spants!
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
If I'm not mistaken, he calls them
Ponsnasterisks. And I did totally steal the format from him. I was so excited when I first read a piece of his with these types of footnotes. I feel like my stuff—even VEB comments—can get awfully parenthical-filled. Now, I can just use the Posnasterisks. As an aside, if anyone out there is not reading Joe Posnanski, you should be.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Apr 9, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I spelled "Posnasterisk" wrong the first time.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Apr 9, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
while I agree that with a somewhat limited budget it is best to have a good rotation and nice position players/a few all stars
it sure would be nice to have a better ’pen. I am fully expecting them to make some sort of trade midseason unless the bullpen far exceeds expectations.
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:08 PM EDT reply actions
"midseason"
you mean by the end of next week? Let’s not kid ourselves: Franklin and Motte suck. If either of those guys are pitching the 8th or 9th it’s going to be heartburn city this year.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
nah
they will wait til midseason I’ll bet. they will give those guys a few more chances at the very least. especially Franklin. too early to freak out yo
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be too early...
except it’s Ryan Franklin and he was awful at the end of last year. This is clearly a case of turning back into a pumpkin after a run of good luck. I thought he was a new man thanks to the cutter, but I don’t think he needs to get shelled too many more times to prove that he’s still a 6th starter/middle inning type.
As for Motte, it’s now 11 home runs in his last 57 innings. Add to that 4 walks per nine and over a hit per inning… he should be used very carefully. He should face righties over the age of 35 only.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
you're probably right
but doesn’t bgh kind of refute this? I think this team will be good enough to wait a bit to see if the bullpen is really going to be that bad.
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
besides
we won the series, that’s all Larussa wants right now
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I am reflecting on why
Garcia is being skipped in the rotation, thinking “it’s bad, ok.”
I am presuming that it is to keep Carp in HIS regular rhythm, but it puts Garcia on a national spotlight of sorts, with the Sunday night ESPN game. {what, the Yankees and Red Sox aren’t playing?}
I dread Jaime being exposed to the ravages of Joe Morgan, et al. particularly if he has an extreme outing (either very good or very bad.) I want to protect the kid’s ego as well as his arm.
I thought they were just moving him up to Saturday?
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
no
it’s going to be one of those years where carpenter pitches every fifth day, end of story. therefore, he’s going to be dispersed throughout the rotation kind of oddly.
i don’t know why we just don’t skip the fifth starter role when we don’t need one. a team only needs a fifth starter maybe 10-15 times throughout the year, might as well skip him when you can.
in response to being worried about him in the national game, i’m not worried.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
it makes more sense to move him up imo
he’s next in the rotation, he should start next.
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i disagree
carpenter is the #1 pitcher. you want your #1 pitcher to get as many starts as possible. throwing him every fifth day does that.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
meh
Carp is rather injury prone, and Garcia needs to make a start since he is fresh from a fantastic ST
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
He'll be okay. It's one day. They're not skipping him entirely.
You can read it in any tone you like.
yeah I know
I was just refuting the part that Carp needs to start as many games as possible. I am not so sure that I agree with that
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
garcia needs to preserve innings too
He only threw what, 37 innings last year?
I just don't think it makes sense to skip his first start though
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
they're not skipping it
he’s pitching saturday
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
yes I know
I thought that fang was advocating skipping his start
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
it wouldn't be skipping it though
it would just be moving it back one day.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
this is turning into some kind of marx bros-like skit
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
or I mean
Laurel and Hardy
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Or Abbott and Costello
“Who’s starting on Sunday?”
“I don’t know.”
“No, he’s starting on Saturday to preserve his fragile ego!”
“Why?”
“He’s pitching out of the bullpen and throws nothing but fastballs.”
“Who?”
“No, he’s starting on Sunday!”
by BTown Birds fan on Apr 9, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 12 recs
bingo!
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
bango!
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
congo!
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
fongo!
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Okay, this deserves to be green
And since I have the power…let it be so!
"But I’m still hungry. I’ve got 10 fingers. There’s one that’s busy and I need nine more."
- Albert Pujols
check sources, plz.
at first Jaime had the Sunday start because of “future match-ups”. presumably the timing of starts later in the month.
Carp was then moved into the Sunday start after that. whatever their reasons, they changed their mind.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Right. Tony and Dave really like to plan out those matchups.
It could be anything.
You can read it in any tone you like.
my educated guess is
“because Tony La Russa.”
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yeah...i didn't see that
and the fact that mlb.com still has carpenter listed for tomorrow.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I like it
because it’s shapes up for Carp to pitch when I’m there on the 16th
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
no they didn't.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
yes...yes they did.
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
by tgreenfield on Apr 9, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's all I'd heard too...
They moved Jaime to Saturday b/c TLR didn’t want to put undue pressure on him w/ Sunday’s ESPN game. Carp = Sunday.
yup
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
i disagree with the decision
like i said, i think you keep carpenter on his regular schedule. who cares if jaime is going to throw with a national audience watching or not, it’s all the same to him.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Stupid...
Too much coddling. He has to pitch in front of thousands of people and tv cameras.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
can we please, please check facts.
this is all speculation. I have not heard a quote or a reason one way or another. they moved him, and unless someone has a LINK, they did not give a concrete reason.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
thank you
fax r cool
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
There is the possibility that the WorldWideLeader...
got to LaRussa… I wouldn’t put it past them.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
momma shit too
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2010_04_09_slnmlb_milmlb_1&mode=preview
"Franklin has no patience for bloggers who believe because he pitches to contact, his start last season was something of a fluke."
momma shit too!
haha
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
for all we know espn requested carp to pitch on sunday night for more ratings
heh
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
so you agree?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah...
I’m all for throwing any major leaguer into any situation. The Ankiel situation permanently scarred La Russa and most of Cardinal fandom but I don’t think you can guess whether a young player will be affected by a given situation. For every Ankiel there’s a Reyes or a Wainwright or a TJ coming up huge in the playoffs.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
yeah
it’s just stupid simply from the fact that major leaguers should just be able to go out and pitch. who care if jaime has to go out and pitch with 40,000 people actually there with tv cameras and 10,000,000 people watching or go out and pitch with 40,000 people actually there (but joe morgan being one of them) with tv cameras BUT 30,000,000 people watching. i don’t really think it makes a difference.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather Carp get an extra day off.
And am surprised anyone would be against this.
by Mister Eff on Apr 9, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
he's a major league baseball player
i don’t think he’s any more or less injury prone pitching on saturday instead of sunday night.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
dude
why is it such a big deal that they switched them two? Garcia needs to make a start
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i don't see the big deal, either
Carp gets an extra day . . . Jaime gets a start in. No big whoop
it's not a big deal
i just disagree with the decision.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
so you think Jaime should ride the bench for like 2 weeks to start the season?
I disagree with that
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
no
he would pitch on sunday, considering that’s the cardinals’ fifth game in five days.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
oh I thought you were advocating skipping him in the rotation
my bad
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, no
if wainwright threw on sunday it’d be on three days rest. bad. carpenter was the only beneficiary of the off day because he’s the only one that pitched before it.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
we'll have to agree to disagree.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
hopefully Carp isn't pissed that they are pushing him back a day
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If Carp's pissed, pity the poor Brewers
(but don’t really)
by BTown Birds fan on Apr 9, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i prefer the statement
I would agree with you but than we would both be wrong
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
i can jive with that.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
or did they?
i’ve got conflicting sources. website says carpenter tomorrow, paper says jaime tomorrow.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
well, you can imagine what it would be like if they did

"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
hmm...
Danup:
If you’re reading this I’m in Tokyo…
If I don’t read this, then where are you?!
You can read it in any tone you like.
okay... I'll go there.
why did Motte throw nothing but fastballs? I just saw him throw a heart-stopping changeup in his previous game, for a convincing K.
why didn’t LaRue slow him down, if he’s so great at managing the younger pitchers?
why didn’t Duncan notice the whole “fastball hitter” thing?
and as stated, why not Boggs for two innings?
that’s tons more disturbing than the whole Motte only has fastballs thing. Come on, y’all. we knew that.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
ah, damnation
I have to go. have fun with that.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
very good questions
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Answers:
- Maybe his off-speed stuff wasn’t working in the bullpen that day, and he felt confident in his fastball
- Maybe LaRue felt that if he got good location on the fastball that they could get a strikeout.
- How do you know he didn’t. Maybe the book is that he’s a high fastball hitter and Motte just missed location?
- You have that much more confidence in Boggs for two innings? He gave up the same amount of baserunners at Jason Motte did.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
motte gave up more bases, though...unfortunately
they were calling it at red reporter and thanking larussa for the matchup – apparently gomes can only hit the fastball and motte can throw only it.
also, is hawksworth even able to pitch? if not, why is he here?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
because we have to play one guy short at least a few times a year
still not totally happy with Mo’s roster construction
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Gomes said that if the pitch were any lower
He would have K’d
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
One name mentioned last year...
is considering retirement. Justin Speier was released by the Rockies and is looking to retire. He could easily be called upon to add an extra experienced arm on the cheap. His spring numbers looked pretty good.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/04/rockies-release-justin-speier.html
Poor Moo Cow
stuck in a storm drain – the following link shows a video of the poor thing:
I thought Jaime was starting on Sunday...
now the pd has him on Saturday. What gives?
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
HAHAHAHAAHHAH
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
they switched him and carp
carp was gonna go on normal rest, but they don’t want jaime making his first start with the added pressure of a national broadcast
no idea what’s going on with the replies above me
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
off topic
but this is a cool, baseball related article. i find it endlessly fascinating to try and put myself in grant desme’s shoes and such
http://www.mercurynews.com/athletics/ci_14849659?source=rss&nclick_check=1
"...and pujols has given st louis the lead"
The Best Defensive Play I Have Seen in Person
follow me on teh twitterz @greenfieldt
the girl from japan
is pitching in the US:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/04/09/yoshida.outlaws.ap/index.html
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
awesome!
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
awesome
she will play about 90 miles from me. I am gonna have to check her out.
Don't ping my cheese with your bandwidth.
by RosevilleRedbird on Apr 9, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
HEY VEB
WAKE UP!!!!!
i’m bored and want to be engaged in some sort of discussion here. humor me.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 4:10 PM EDT reply actions
Here's something for you to do.....
hunt down Cody and tell him to draft someone already.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
by RiverRat on Apr 9, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I rec'd this because it's true
Yeah, my bad on the stupid draft. I’ve been busy all week and I expected an email today(never happened), and I was am almost certain that it was on autopilot when I left it last night.
Isn't it plainly obvious...
that the Rams should take Suh #1, then a quarterback in the second round? It seems likely that one of Tebow, Clausen, or McCoy will be available. Not that I like all those guys, but hell lightening could strike, and if it doesn’t you still have Suh. amiright?
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
or maybe
enlightening could strike?
Just trying to be an *. Rams suck
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I'm a niners fan
not much better. Rams really need to draft another D-lineman with their top pick.
No time for kicking puppies, Davies is starting tonight so theres a chance I get to pitch.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
+1 for the niners
I think the samuri has them going in the right direction
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
jerry rice threw out first pitch in fricso
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think the Rams should take Bradford
and i think it’s a no-brainer. Bradford would have been the #1 pick last year, and by all accounts, he’s perfectly healthy. The Rams aren’t going anywhere as long as they don’t have a QB. And Bradford is miles ahead of Tebow, Clausen, or McCoy.
no-brainer to me, too.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think too that if you are going to pay the #1 pick
It is better to pay for a QB which might actually justify how much you have to pay.
I don't see how Bradford who played with a good RB and a great O-Line is a no brainer
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
well, if you need a qb
then it’s a no-brainer that you take the best available.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
But what if you need almost everything?
Then don’t you take best player available? Which is probably Suh?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Apr 9, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
if you need a qb
that IS everything.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Those things are true
But I don’t see how that changes anything. He’s still the best QB in the draft and the Rams obviously need a QB. The guy is a stud. As a Mizzou fan, I don’t know how you could refute that.
ND runs a system closer to what they do in the Pro's
Clausen has better accuracy with a bad offensive line all the while being injured last year.
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Worked well with Brady Quinn
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I don't think Clausen has better accuracy
In fact, I think Bradford has a lot better accuracy. The NFL scouts that have judged them both have come to the same conclusion, also.
was just going to post this
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/04/09/clausen/index.html?eref=sihp
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Clausen hasn't even had his pro day yet
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
look up
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
haha
I was thinking to myself it is not till Friday. Than I realized it was Friday
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
take a look
[Clausen] didn’t blow anyone away with his ball placement. “This is in stark contrast to the workout turned in by Sam Bradford, when receivers rarely broke stride to make the reception.”
it was today.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes he has
I read a report on a guy who watched video on all of Clausen’s game. Often, his (great) receivers would bail him out on under/overthrown balls
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
sounds like the same at his pro day
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
As a ND fan
I would like to see the video of the “great” recievers he’s been throwing to, because I sure as shit don’t remember them.
*Tate is decent.
113 receiving yards per game at 6'3 220?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i would say none of those guys are great
but the closest Bradford had to great was a tight end – Jermaine Gresham – and that’s not “great,” either.
I was never comparing anyone to Bradford.
Just not sure I’d trust a guys analysis if he also claims Floyd and Tate are great receivers.
Can you provide any counterarguments on how they're not?
They’re not #1 guys in the NFL, no, but they’ll be NFL players, and were VERY productive last year. That’s more than most teams can say
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
If that's your criteria
No college team has a great receiving corp
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
...okay then
It seems we’re at an impasse. I don’t know why your standards are so high, though.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Because I'm better then you!
I just don’t think we should evaluate talent based on a curve. Just because John Lannan was an Opening Day starter does not make him an ace.
Yeah, but that's comparing MLB to MLB
You’re comparing NCAA to NFL
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
It's kind of like how I don't think there was a "great" team in college basketball this year.
Good teams, yeah, but I don’t think even the champ, Duke, was “Great.”
This is now as far to the right as I am willing to go. Good day.
all my favorite scenarios actually involve the rams trading the pick
and i honestly don’t think that’s going to happen. i’ve waivered back and forth on the two quarterbacks, but honestly i still think suh is the correct pick. it won’t happen, but it still be the pick i would make.
as for second round quarterback, you’re reaching if you think mccoy is going to be there and REALLY reaching if you think clausen is going to be there. either way, the rams could take a flyer on tebow in the second round or even lefevour in the third or fourth round. worth it my opinion, as the rams would have one of the best d lines in football if suh was on it.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
you don't think jacksonville will take tebow?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
how they gonna sell tickets?
i thought that was the plan.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
they're still going to need a QB to compete
and if they think Bradford is an NFL QB, you have to take him.
I agree. Gotta take Bradford
You have the think about Spags’ strengths as a coach… he is MUCH more likely to coax talent out of a late round DT than a QB.
The benefits you get from Bradford/Price would be way higher than the benefits you get from Suh/McCoy
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
they're not going to compete in 2010 though
aj feeley/keith null/whatever flyer you take this year is going to suffice in 2010, because the rams frankly aren’t going to be that good. with the #1 pick, you want a sure thing. this year, suh is as sure of a thing as you’re going to get.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
i realy like suh a lot
But I just don’t know about another DT. The Rams seem to be cursed in that regard
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Once again, you gotta think about the comparitive advance that we have with Spags as coach
It’s like a Dave Duncan thing
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
if they don't take a qb then they will never compete
who knows if they will have the opportunity next year to get the best qb in the draft. and if it’s jake locker – i like him alot, but think i’d rather have bradford. if locker came out this year i think he’s second qb taken.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Yeah, as a Pac 10 guy
Locker doesn’t scream “Pro Bowl” QB to me
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
and twice on sundays
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i just bet a quality QB will drop to the 2nd round
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It's much, much more likely a quality DT will drop to the 2nd round
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
and by the same token
it’s much more likely you’re going to get quality playing time out of a 2nd round DT than a 2nd round QB
Yeah, that's been my point all thread
Especially with Spags as our head coach
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I also like the trade down
- pick is almost never worth it. Too much money. We need as many picks as possible this draft. Lots of depth in draft but not a lot of high end talent
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
good luck trading down
I think that might be a good course of action, but the market to do so is not there. At least from what I’ve read.
i don't think it's so easy to trade the one pick anymore
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
The reason being is that
It just isn’t worth it. Not worth to give the money you have to for the #1 pick
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree with the above points about it being hard to trade the pick
which is why i don’t think it’s going to happen.
also, if you guys want to talk rams, i suggest the great sb nation blog turf show times for it. tackle box and i could always use more intelligent posters around there.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i am not sure you should be so picky
You should just shoot for posters than work up to intelligent
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
we have posters.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Mark my words....
LeFeavour will be the best QB to come out of this draft, with Bradford a close second. The Rams would be smart to take Suh at #1 and then pick up LeFeavour in the second round.
i like him more than claussen or mccoy or tebow
but way less than bradford.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'm glad Garcia is starting tomorrow on Fox Cody
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
er, uh
fang
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
DO NOT EVER COMPARE ME TO CODY!!! YOU WILL PAY!!!!
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
how much do you need
yeah, I was over bitching at cody in the draft room then came over here, whoops. you are two different entities, I apologize.
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm obviously smarter
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
well
our baseball smarts are being put to the test, we shall see!
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
haha i've been on autopilot for a week
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I guessed that around the time you reached for Hoffman
Belief that success is inevitable is as likely to hold you back as a belief that it is impossible.
awesome.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too
In theory that game should be playing in Chicagoland. Makes me all hot.
ooooo
you have my hopes up now! I know what I am doing tomorrow afternoon!
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
i just realized that
tomorrow’s game is also on a national network. so, i understand the move even less now.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i imagine it involved
“which game do you want, carp?”
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yup
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't really think it was his decision.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
do you think they asked him?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i think he was "consulted"
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I wonder why TLR brought it up
it must be masking something else
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
technically
the game is probably regional, meaning that it won’t be shown nationally and just to a bit of an expanded audience on an over the air channel. and the fact that it’s a day game.
small points i know, but you know tony would mention them if asked.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe it's a day/night thing
this has garnered a lot of conjecture for something so inconsequential lol
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
true
and it’s unimaginable that who televises the game has any bearing at all. what added pressure could there be? a national audience isn’t sitting there ready to critique garcia’s every pitch – they don’t even know who the hell he is.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
TLR doesn't realize that 10s of thousands are watching it on their mlb.tvs
well, hopefully next week I will be
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
to be honest, i wasn't paying very close attention
but he looked fine. He wasn’t very efficient – only throwing 5 innings – but I would feel pretty confident being a Tigers fan.
Did brothers three only show the opening day game because it was on ESPN
or do they often show baseball games?
they'll put on whatever you want
but i doubt their baseball possibilities extend beyond espn, tbs, or fox. sports is always on, though.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
brewers lineup relesed
Weeks 2b
Gomez cf
Braun lf
Fielder 1b
McGehee 3b
Edmonds rf
Zaun c
Escobar ss
Bush p
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
When did this Edmonds signing occur?
I must have fallen asleep at the wheel for a while.
1.14.10, the day I went green.
damn, your name's not rip van winkle, is it?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
actually
it’s enrique edmonds. huge prospect, but the big news outlets are to busy masturbating to jason heyward to notice
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
yeah, he probably didn't notice that this edmonds is a rf'er
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
OT: (Kinda) - I know this has probably been asked before
I am gonna be out in Vegas in June, and I was wondering if there was a great place to watch some Cardinal baseball, but away from all the craziness.
We do have some Vegas VEB’ers, don’t we?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
and if we do, can i sleep on your couch or perhaps in your basement?
i promise it won’t be for long. two years at the max. pinky swear
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
cards lineup ludwick batting 2nd
1. Schumaker, 2b
2. Ludwick, rf
3. Pujols, 1b
4, Holliday, lf
5. Rasmus, cf
6. Molina, c
7. Freese, 3b
8. Ryan, ss
9. Lohse, p
WALKAPOTAMOOSE BURNING IN THE OUTFIELD
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
dang
that’s the best lineup I’ve ever seen!!!!!!
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I need a towel
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
FTW!!!!!!
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
This probably won't happen while TLR is the manager...
But I would love to see a guy who actually walks a lot bat second. Ludwick isn’t much better in that regard than Ryan…
Am I the only one who wants to see Freese bat 6th?
He’s been doing well so far.
just who do you think you are bgh? the red barron?
i keed, i keed. good stuff dude.
here’s my take, i know you’re just dying to hear it. i think MO’s decision is more complex than what you think. there’s many factors at play here, money, DeWitt & CO, TLR & Dave. i think MO is trying to please too many masters here, and i think he is a bit overconfident. but i think he has to be because the powers that be are overconfident. at least i hope so. i hope MO is smrt enough to realize Franky always has & always will suck. dude just had some killer mojo on his side & that’s why he had a great season last year. it’s not like i’d be happier with a pen full of vets either. i don’t care how long someone’s been pitching, as long as they get the job done without blowing games, that’s all that matters. be it vets or guys off the street, it doesn’t matter to me at all.
just win baby.
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
it's the beard
it just needs to grow out again
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 9, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
for the lady's who want to rock some Cards gear & not wear Touch
or for the fella’s out there who want to buy their lady something girly & pretty
Victoria’s Secret now has Cardinals apparel.
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
No lingerie
Disappointed.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
your girlfriend exhales.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
holy crap HFS
when did this happen?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Over Christmas break
On Christmas day, actually
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
bad decision man
never get engaged on a birthday, christmas, or valentine’s day.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
OH SHIT
Can I take it back? Is it too late?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
you know why, don't you?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Because you've never had a girlfriend?
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Apr 9, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
shut up spants.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. I ruin a chance for having "Special sex" twice
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Without divulging details nobody wants to know
Yes… We do long distance 75% of the year. When we’re together, we make it count. Especially on special days
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
no
because if you get divorced, she gets to keep the ring because it was a “gift.” any other day you get the ring back.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
that's what i've heard from lawyers.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Jackie Chiles
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Apr 9, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
god
spants comes, and my day instantly gets worse.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
haha i did
i just get the feeling you like making fun of me a bit too much.
/sarcasm
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
All in jest, little buddy.
Besides, it’s been forever since I made fun of you.
You can read it in any tone you like.
"Little buddy"
That’s what my fiance calls me!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
there's nothing little about that
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
yeah...
it’s been awhile since i’ve been around with any regularity.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
That what he said
Belief that success is inevitable is as likely to hold you back as a belief that it is impossible.
He's got problems then.
(I was waiting for someone to notice that.)
You can read it in any tone you like.
glad I am am to at least hit the beach ball sized ones
Belief that success is inevitable is as likely to hold you back as a belief that it is impossible.
i didn't want to go anywhere near that one
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Autoexacerbation is only gross when boys do it
Belief that success is inevitable is as likely to hold you back as a belief that it is impossible.
being stabbed isn't so bad
as a cab driver you just learn to try and take it in the shoulder
Belief that success is inevitable is as likely to hold you back as a belief that it is impossible.
Bob Loblaw's Law Blog?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I wonder why my mom didn't have to give her ring back after the divorce?
You can read it in any tone you like.
i've just heard that can be an argument
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe if the engagement was broken.
But following a divorce? I have never heard of that.
You can read it in any tone you like.
that might have been it, actually
i honestly don’t remember all the well.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's an article about it
on cnn.com.
Most courts have found that giving an engagement ring on a birthday or a holiday, such as Christmas or Valentine’s Day, makes the ring a simple gift.
Right. Engagement.
Fang initially said “divorce.” BIG BIG difference.
You can read it in any tone you like.
You are correct, Fang.
I wouldnt advice giving a ring on a holiday for that very reason.
1.14.10, the day I went green.
How much are you paying those ladies to lie to you?
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Apr 9, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
they get paid in terms of seeing me
they come over, they talk to me for 20 minutes, and gdm gets 10 minutes of sex for free.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
i actually had a funny reply but fang ruined it
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
i'm here to serve.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
i met her last night
great gal.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
april fools is the best day to propose
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I wonder if that can be a used as a legal argument to get an annulment?
You can read it in any tone you like.
it would be a clever argument, though
i’m sure some lawyer could try to fit it into some sort of fraud, but i doubt a judge would let it fly. stranger things have happened, though.
the law has no sense of humor
has it actually been tried? that’d be hilarious in itself.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
damn
that would have made my day. otoh, perhaps this is your ticket to lawyering fame and fortune?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
there ya go
now we’re onto something.
btw, you going to see any tulane-rice games this weekend? i’m looking at the rice pitcher tomorrow afternoon
who dat?
gotta find my little schedule here – does it clash with the cards game?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
if i make a dime off of getting
annulments over April Fool’s Day, I promise to at least buy you a beer, spants.
don't forget the broken engagements
you should be able to get those rings back.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Word.
I will say one thing; it makes me an INFINITELY more valuable wingman
Just walk into a bar with my friends, they declare that I’m engaged, and all of the girls flock around, ask me how I did it, and that instantly breaks the ice for my guy friends
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
she still not happy about him borrowing her's without asking first
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
by gdm426 on Apr 9, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
dude
my mom walked past that store in the mall (i was with her) and stopped to look for like two seconds and then mentioned it out loud. most embarrassing ten seconds of my life.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
you haven't truly lived till your parents embarrass you in front of all your friends
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
why the hell is there a dog on the back of that cap?
hmmm…maybe I don’t wanna know
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
it's their Pink collection, i think it has something to do with that but i'm not sure
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
no on the hoodie?
i would be attracted to that if i saw it at the stadium.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i think they could have done better
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
i would totally get that hoodie for my girlfriend
luckily, i don’t have a girlfriend. saves me 55 big ones.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
44 dolklar swaet pants
Good grief that’s alot of money..How abotu I give yeah 3.25 and you let my wife wear them for an hr…(hoping someone remebers that ILC skit)
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
by punchinjudy on Apr 9, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you drunk?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
this was a reply to the top
the 44 dollar sweat pants….ouch..and my reply was an old in living color skit
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
REMINDER
Due to a scheduling conflict, tonight’s (Friday, April 9th) Fox Sports Midwest telecast of the Cardinals game at Milwaukee (7:10 p.m.) will be shown on an alternate Fox Midwest channel.
Please refer to the list below for info on where to find the alternate Fox Midwest channel:
St. Louis market
* Charter-St. Louis – Channel 3 or 8
* New Wave-Dexter and Sparta – 21
* Madison-Madison County – 8
* HomeTel-Douglas, Ill – 3
* AT&T U-verse – 692
* DirecTV – 680
* Dish Network – 452
Outside the St. Louis market
Fans outside the St. Louis Market can follow all the action on MLB.tv or tune in on one of these stations.
* Cable TV: Fox Sports Midwest main channel, Fox Sports Midwest HD
* AT&T U-verse – 692
* DirecTV – 680
* Dish Network – 452
THIS IS CRAP!!
i don’t think i get the game tonight. fucking blues.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
yesterday
i tuned in just to see the HR, cause Comcast guide(dish liek thing) said it wasnt on, so i switched after a few hrs just to see…and it was…
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
it doesn't look like I will get it on my cable's main FSM channel, and I am out of market
No one cares about your Blues Hockey
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
i care about blues hockey and i am a fan
but not when they’re out of the playoff hunt.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
YES!
I am getting the game ( or at least the pre-game)
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Thank You!
Channel 452 saved me. 418 is where I normally get my Cardinal fix, and tonight it was Blues hockey. I was about to lose it there.
sprayahen.com -- Entertaining mean-spirited baseball fans on and off since 2005.
what? you're actually doing something?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Last time I drank Jack
I got so drunk I feel asleep in a random persons car at the Oz
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
so instead of walking the yellow brick road you decided to drive?
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
i can't afford jack, i'm making due with evan williams
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
you should know better than that by now
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
renteria having a pretty good start to season
giants just closed to 3-2 on hudson and braves in the 7th. dero batting.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
so you don't think he can sustain this pace?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Haha
I’m not sure a .727/.786/.818 line represents his true talent level
However, if it makes you feel better, I’m completely hypocritical. I fully believe that Colby’s .500/.692/1.000 represents his true talent level. Mancrushes die hard
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I am watching the game also
I’m waiting to see if Heyward does something exciting. Also I enjoy listening to Kruk and Kuiper.
BTW for those of you who are looking for something to do tomorrow, Wellemeyer is pitching, Giants vs. Braves.
Boy, that stadium is a really nice place to see baseball!!!
heyward was 0-2 with two k's against the lefty sanchez
so the loogy comes in and walks him on four straight.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Because I am too lazy to reply to the subthread a ways up
I don’t understand the hate for Clausen. The dude isn’t even 100% healthy yet (Toe surgery after having turf toe all of 2009), and still shows his impressive throwing motion.without too much hesitation or pain. It seemed to me that he could have wowed the scouts had he opened up his playbook and include some bootlegs, etc, but from what I hear, his toe isn’t 100%, and he couldn’t include those in the package of throws in his Pro Day.
But to say Bradford is miles ahead of Clausen is just flat out wrong in my opinion. The obvious factor is that Clausen actually played in a pro system, whereas Bradford did not. Then there are other kinks. Bradford played behind a fantastic O-line with several All-Americans, a great defense, decent running game, and good targets (Gresham, 1st rounder, Juaquin Iglesias, etc.). Clausen had better targets, I can’t argue that, but he had one of the worst O-lines in D1 football, a below average defense (He had to constantly throw to keep the team in games), a bad running game (O-line coach was fired after the season because of this and the sacks). Clausen has proven he can take the hits and isn’t just some pretty-boy QB. This includes being the QB most sacked in 2008 and was also sacked numerously in 2009, and playing on turf toe in all of 2009, and still leading the team through all the negatives to many comeback victories (Notre Dame would literally be about 2-10 without Clausen). Bradford? When he goes down for the first time in 09, he blows out his shoulder. First game back, gets sacked on the shoulder, and injures it again. Granted, he may have come back too early in order to salvage the season, but the point remains. How long will that arm last? He’s going to be playing on a bad team without great O-line protection. How long until he gets hit by Dwight Freeney and loses his arm in the process? It’s a risky business in my view.
Some of you are going to dismiss me because I am, in fact, a Notre Dame fan, but I can’t see how anyone doesn’t think Clausen and Bradford are close to each other if not on the same level.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Oh, I definitely think they're close. I think Bradford is marginally better, but it's not a huge chasm
But I go to USC, so by default, I have to hate all things Notre Dame
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Too many buttons.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
You typed an essay, but those are too many buttons?
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Apr 9, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but it's fun to push buttons
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah
another football thread is just what this post needed
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
shut up
both of you.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah i don't really see what you're going after there.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
That's because you're not smart enough.
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Apr 9, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
shut up.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
and with that, i'm out.
peace y’all. go cards.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
BYE SPANTS
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
captain and coke
drink responsibly.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
but she just set precedent
there’s a new lawyer in town.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
right.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
nobody cares about your handegg?!
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Apr 9, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Flagged!
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
the more i think about it
the more i tend to agree.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 9, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
the pro day is scripted by some dude from the CFL
not sure he has any say in what he wants to show off – it’s more like what the scouts want to see.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I don't want to drag this out forever
but I’ll try to provide a quick response. Bradford got taken down hard directly on his shoulder, and he was injured. Any QB that gets driven into the ground by a big D-lineman is going to probably be hurt afterwards. When he came back, he clearly wasn’t healthy and it didn’t take much to hurt again.
Now, he’s completely healthy. If Freeney sacks him and drives his shoulder into the ground, he’s probably going to be hurt. But so would Clausen, Drew Brees or any other QB that gets driven into the ground. I don’t think he’s any more of an injury risk than any other QB. Brees’ labrum injury, by all accounts, was a LOT worse than Bradford’s.
I think Bradford is the better pro prospect, and the NFL scouts agree. There’s nothing I can say that is going to convince you otherwise, so I’ll just leave it at that. We’ll all find out eventually, anyway.
odds of stav getting an AB tonite
i’d say 99%.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i dunno
craig put together two good ABs last night. he might be the first off the bench
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
or might be the last
in a big spot.
i’m thinking stav ph’s for lohse in the 6th or 7th.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i think it depends
he’s definitely our #1 double-switch guy
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
glad he did LOL!
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 10, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
you and me both, brother
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
he smoked that off wagner
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
if we threw in stav
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
really cardinals.com? really?
So anyone else get the email about fertilizer?
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/images/email/y2010/scotts/scotts_lawn_bags_stl.jpg
i can see scotts world hq from my house
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
I'm on a chat with AT&T UVerse and the techs name is Lloyd.
Is it wrong I want to yell at him and call him a gay Asian?
Think Jim Carrey in that Orange Tuxedo instead
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
it's wrong that you only want to
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
LLOYD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
anyone used mlb.tv with boxee here?
i just installed boxee to try it out, but when i try to launch mlb.tv in it, it says i need to update boxee to the latest version, but….i just intalled it
what do?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I use boxee and it works just fine for me, so I have no idea what the deal is.
did you get the install file from the main boxee site?
Have you still been having blackout issues
Sorry I haven’t had a chance to mess with MLB.tv yet. This will be the first game I can watch
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I also have Boxee if you want me to log in and try a non Cardinals game real fast
For some feedback
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I got the same error as you PJ
might of found solution though
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i think i got it figured out
same as last year, i guess it just took me a while to find a good proxy
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
You shouldn't even need a proxy since you don't live in STL
I have heard a lot of problems so far with MLB.tv . They always fuck something up at the beginning of the season
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 9, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
that's what i was wondering
i’m over reading the brewers gamethread.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Good idea.
Cody can comment in Flim’s thread. The rest us will take the main thread.
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Apr 9, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Can FSM fire Horton & TTTAJC
and use Cal Eldred all the damn time, please?
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
glaus up with bases loaded
pops to right. now bottom 11.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by 





















