Quick look at Penny (with PITCHf/x!....really)
I've always had an interest in Penny, he's a guy with a power "rising" fastball---watch his cheddar throwing in the All Star Game---but was always able to get groundballs somehow. Side note: that paradox is one reason I've guessed that he's been able to keep a HR/FB% a little bit lower than average, he's apparently pitching down in the zone with a high RPM backspin fastball, when the ball comes off the bat it should have less backspin->not as much loft. Or I could just be making shit up.
In any case, he's obviously been a good fit for the Duncan philosophy despite not having the typical fastball sink of a Duncan reclamation project, sporting a nifty 53% GB% vs. 45% career while basically walking no one .94 BB/9 vs. 2.86 career. He's never been a big K-guy, and also in typical Duncan style he's also at a career low 4.71 K/9. If you didn't watch him pitch, you'd think this guy was Suppan with better command.
Duncan has certainly made a mark with Penny's gameplan: he's essentially been a 3 pitch pitcher, throwing a (by far) career low ~49% fastballs, (by far) career high 37% splitter/changeup, and near career low 14% curveballs. To be honest I can't remember Duncan changing a pitcher's pitch distribution quite this much as Penny is a dramatically different pitcher than he's ever been. Props to Penny/Duncan for having the balls to change so much.
Not only is he throwing different pitches, but he's throwing them differently. His FB is still coming in at 93.7, but the one thing that has stuck out to me watching him is how his splitter/changeup has been coming in at 86-90 averaging 87.9. He has to have gone to a different grip or something as he's picked up about 2 mph on his splitter; you'd think that'd be a terrible thing (FB/CH velocity differential is hugely important), but it seems he's using it much more like a sinker than a true mess-with-your-timing-changeup. On to the PITCHf/x from TexasLeaguers.com
The first thing that jumps out is the shotgun of.....stuff....in the upper left quadrant. He's throwing a bunch of FB/Splits with all kinds of different movements. He's throwing the super riser fastballs with 15+ inches vertical movement and then dropping the split which can essentially moving like a Lowe sinker when he really gets it sinking. Then he's cutting his fastball almost to 0 horizontal movement and running it all the way out to -10-12. He's throwing a lot of the same pitches, but not one of them are likely to be moving the same way and I can easily see how it'd be hard to square him up. On top of that, he obviously knows what he's doing movement wise because his command has been excellent.
I think his curveball kinda sucks standalone, but when it's basically impossible to be sitting on one speed on his FB already so he can mix that in the 14% of the time and keep it effective (example 50,425 why fangraphs pitch values have to be looked at in context).
Again he's basically throwing up a bunch of stuff with a wide range of overlapping velocity anywhere from 85-97, and then dropping in the curveball.
Really the summary is pretty simple, he's pounding the zone (career high 65.7% strikes) with bunch of stuff pretty equally spread between 85-97 coming from the same armspeed, and then on top of that it's all coming in with very different movement. It's a simple scouting report, but it's a lot easier said than done to not get your timing messed up by that.
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VEP, you're fired.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 30, 2010 12:38 AM EDT reply actions
So,
it’s a change-up and not a splitter?
Have we decided this?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I find it hard to believe that he could even throw a 90 mph changeup
He might be mixing in some changeups too, but it’d seem kind of redundant to me to be working on two very similar pitches. Either way they are similar pitches so I just went with calling it a split.
Not afraid to nitpick
could it be some sort of forkball-y thing?
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 30, 2010 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions
cliff notes:
stuff-wise, he’s pitching like an ace. Nice.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
I don't know about ace
Not getting big velocity differential/having a killer breaking ball isn’t going to lead to K’s. I’d say the absolute upside on his season would be 6 K/9, 1.5 BB/9, .6 HR/9 which is a 3.2 FIP and still not quite what I’d call Ace. I’d say he’s optimistically more likely to be something like 5.5 K/9, 2 BB/9 and .7 HR/9 3.65 FIP.
Realistically let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves just yet: 5.25 K/9, 2.5 BB/9 and .7 HR/9 for a 3.87 FIP. I would have taken that every day of the week in the off-season.
Not afraid to nitpick
Semantics, maybe, but
number of starting pitchers in the NL last season with a 3.2 FIP or better:
Six.
If that’s not ace-level pitching, from a guy who eats a lot of innings and is pretty economical with his pitches, I dunno what is.
I take your point, though, that his stuff isn’t the “typical” ace-type arsenal, but the numbers I really like so far this year are these: 53% GB, 12% in-field flyballs, 16% LD. These are all career-highs, and (although SSS caveats apply), personally I think at least some of the recipe for this comes from the way the Cardinals/Duncan approach their starting pitching philosophy. The big reason he struggled last year, despite a career-high FB velocity, was the lack of groundballs, and I was really ready to bet that he’d put that right in a big way under Dave Duncan. Seems he’s done that, but, as you pointed out, in a slightly unusual way.
This sentence jumped out at me, and I think I broadly agree with it, looking at the stuff chart:
He’s throwing the super riser fastballs with 15+ inches vertical movement and then dropping the split which can essentially moving like a Lowe sinker when he really gets it sinking.
So, lots of stuff coming at a similar velocity, at what I assume (just by watching – FWIW I’d be REALLY interested to see a pitchFX chart showing release points) is a virtually identical release point and arm velocity, with pretty substantial (like, 15 inches) variety in vertical movement. The result? Well, I’d imagine that, as a hitter, you’ll be topping and tailing a lot of those pitches, swinging at stuff over the zone but finding it difficult to square up to, hitting a lot of balls into the dirt and a lot of stuff straight up in the air. The correlation with career-high infield flyball AND groundball numbers is pretty persuasive, IMO.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 2, 2010 5:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Same arm slot, and from watching it, same armspeed

But what is making this whole thing effective is his command. Pelfrey throws a FB/CH that’s even more all over the place movement wise but he doesn’t command it like Penny has.
Not afraid to nitpick
I was looking at this on the same site the other day...
After doing it for an hour or so, I realized what was giving VEP such fits with his pitch classifications. You’d almost have to look at his grip to figure out what the hell he’s throwing that is being classified as a “change-up”. It’s clearly changing speeds and it doesn’t have a lot of movement vertically or horizontally, so Pitch F/X is saying “change”, but he’s throwing it much harder than you would a normal change-up, so that makes me think it’s a splitter. One other thing of note: Whatever that pitch is, it’s not a new one from what I can tell. If you go back to ’08 he has a pitch with similar movement and velocity.
Regardless, whatever the hell it is, it’s been really, really effective for him this year.
Oh…
Side note: that paradox is one reason I’ve guessed that he’s been able to keep a HR/FB% a little bit lower than average, he’s apparently pitching down in the zone with a high RPM backspin fastball, when the ball comes off the bat it should have less backspin→not as much loft. Or I could just be making shit up.
I think you’re making shit up, but it would be interesting to get some physics people working on that question to see if there’s any truth to it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I mean it makes sense from a physics standpoint
But I have no idea (and actually somewhat doubt) if the difference in RPMs he gets would actually make a noticeable difference. It’s my “Hey, Maybe!” theory going back to wondering why Webb/Lowe had such a high HR/FB.
Not afraid to nitpick
do you mean career, or 2010?
The SS in 2010 is way too small to make any sort of conclusions about anything, I’d say. 33 flyballs isn’t much to go on.
Career-wise, he’s had basically an entire career in the NL playing in LA (suppresses HR quite a lot) and Florida (IIRC, slightly below-average homerun hitting environment), so you would probably expect his HR/FB rate to be a little below average. At 9%, it’s not like it’s hugely significant anyhow.
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
by Felonius_Monk on May 2, 2010 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I doubt it's statistically significant
But 9% vs. 11% average is very much practically significant, that’s about 4 home runs a year at 200 FBs or about .25 on the ERA. Also In his prime ‘02-’07 he was at 8.6% and change. Just a pet theory anyway I’m probably wrong.
Not afraid to nitpick
wait?
a two percent increase is not adding on 4 homers a year…..
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on May 2, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Well if he allows 300 fly balls a season, a 2% increase = 6 home runs
I don’t actually know how many fly balls Penny allows a season, but I’d think it’s between 200 and 300.
oh, errr
rec’d btw. Have to keep the good fanposts on the board :-)
Chris Carpenter doesn't give a fuck about your fantasy team.
Does Brooks aggregate older data so we would have something to compare this to?
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
From the same period last year

It’s a very, very different pitch selection/set of movements.
Not afraid to nitpick
Wow, he basically just added a sinker (or splitter/changeup, but it's 90 MPH, so I'm calling it a sinker)
Not to unexpected, but.. damn. Dunc really knows that he’s doing.
Backspin
he’s apparently pitching down in the zone with a high RPM backspin fastball, when the ball comes off the bat it should have less backspin→not as much loft. Or I could just be making shit up.
This is actually true.
The spin of the ball is reversed off of the bat, so topspin becomes backspin and vice versa. That’s one reason why hanging curves fly so far.
that's what i'd think
you could top the ball, hit under it, or even hit a knuckler.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

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