Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

Not sure if this the right place or whatever but its very exciting to see Bryan Anderson finally get called up over Gagnozzi. He will wear #16. Via Twitter @MLBSTLCardinals

about 2 years ago 228331_1010723830875_1308360170_30176250_3971_n_tiny mstreeter06 42 comments 1 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Whooooooaaaa

"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan

by jd is legend on Apr 14, 2010 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

mind blown!!

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Apr 14, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

16

http://webpages.charter.net/birdbats/Birdbats/Uniform%20Numbers/16.htm

in unrelated and more somber news, PJ Walters is back in camp.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Apr 14, 2010 1:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Good for him

Really pulling for the guy

"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan

by jd is legend on Apr 14, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

in case we were worried the tradition would not continue:

note Mike Folli in Goold’s 10@10

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Apr 14, 2010 1:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Strauss oh for two

on this story. First it was Pags getting called up then Stav would be back up. Maybe the Cards called up Anderson just to f*** with Strauss and not for any baseball related reason

by ubeddie on Apr 14, 2010 1:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn't be against that

"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan

by jd is legend on Apr 14, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anderson is a unicorn?

Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.

by RiverRat on Apr 14, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmmm


still looking for that one shot of him in the cage this ST

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Apr 14, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strauss is an Asshat as RiverRat would say

Talks outta his ass. Glad someone else broke this rather than Idiot McGee Strauss

....my quick smells like french toast...

Twitter: @mstreeter06

by mstreeter06 on Apr 14, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh wow

I gotta bump this fanshot down to put out a Lou Brock quote. totally missed it on the p-d. sorreh.

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Apr 14, 2010 1:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Nice to see...

There should be a lot of VEB’ers eating crow on this one.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Apr 14, 2010 1:35 PM EDT reply actions  

is he some kind of protagonist?

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 14, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm...

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on Apr 14, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

trying to figure what angle he's working here.

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 14, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, I meant "nice to see" that Anderson was called up.

Separately, there should be a lot of VEB’ers eating crow. (Which is just an observation. Though, I’m not sure those who should eat it will recognize it. Self-awareness isn’t a common trait.)

by Willie McGee's Twin on Apr 14, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah...

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on Apr 14, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't really think you're using that phrase corectly.

Most of us wanted Anderson over Pags. It happened. The system works!

by Mister Eff on Apr 14, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I meant regarding the Cards' (i.e., LaDunc's and the FO's) views on Anderson, especially vis a vis Pagnozzi.

Just yesterday someone made the comment that it was “obvious” that Bryan Anderson would never be called up, never had a future with the Cards, etc. etc.

Moreover, many have claimed the FO was either too stupid to recognize Pagnozzi’s obvious failings (mainly and especially compared to Anderson) and/or that LaDunc was intentionally hurting the team’s performance by unfairly favoring Pagnozzi over Anderson, simply because they “liked” Pagnozzi and did not “like” Anderson (which is certainly an impugnment of their ethics, besides being a lazy reliance on attribution error).

by Willie McGee's Twin on Apr 14, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

huh

didn’t realize someone claimed that Anderson would never be called up. I don’t think the majority of VEB thought that.

just to be clear, do you prefer Pagnozzi over Anderson?

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 14, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

*high five*

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 14, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's unreasonable to claim, from the evidence at hand, that Anderson was being somewhat sidetracked in favour of Pags

and it’s pretty clear from the stats that Anderson is the better player/prospect (younger, much better hitter, most seem to think Pags’ D isn’t as good as reported). Anderson took ONE at-bat in ST, and Pags was around for far longer and had far greater opportunity. He’s also taken a couple of starts at AAA this year despite being clearly the inferior player. And there’s the little matter of the last season in Memphis, when Pagnozzi was getting regular playing time whilst Anderson was healthy.

Until Anderson got this call-up, it’s entirely reasonable to state that the Cardinals organisation, for whatever reason (maybe they really stress catcher defense to such an extent that they’ll play an inferior player if he’s a slightly better defender? Who knows), had favoured the weaker player over the better one (and FWIW I wasn’t one of the people, I don’t think, claiming that on this board, but it’s a completely fair conclusion to draw).

I think if people make the obvious conclusion based on the evidence at hand, and then are proven wrong, it’s debatable as to whether they’ll be munching on any crow. In any case, if I’m not mistaken, the final decision as to who gets called up and who gets sent down is the front office’s (i.e. Mo, although presumably LaDunc have some input into it), so it’s not even necessarily the case that Duncan and LaRussa wouldn’t rather have Pagnozzi up.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 15, 2010 4:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're retroactively adding the sheen of reasonableness to previous arguments that did not have it

I’m not disagreeing with all that you say above, but I think you’re favorably mischaracterizing the majority of previous commenters’ posts about the Pagnozzi v. Anderson issue.

For example, you are correct that it wouldn’t be unreasonable to assert that Anderson was being somewhat sidetracked in favor of Pags. But you have inserted caveats in your circumscribed statement that the vast majority of others did not. Moreover, does the evidence really support the notion that Anderson was being sidetracked in favor of Pagnozzi?

Anderson has moved quickly through the system, reaching AAA at 22 yrs old. He only “stalled,” if one could fairly characterize it like that, upon being injured. Before LaRue’s injury, it was certainly not “unreasonable” for the Cards to prefer that Anderson play at AAA to get healthy, work at developing some power, work at his receiving or other defensive skills, etc. In contrast, Pags is a 27 yr. old organizational catcher who has definitively stalled at AAA (playing parts of 4 seasons there), precisely because he’s not a very good hitter. He’s never gotten any appreciable time in the Major Leagues (only 6 PA) and even then, it was when Anderson was injured. Other more anecdotal evidence shows that the Cards consider Anderson a prospect but not Pagnozzi. For example, the Cards sent Anderson to the AFL (where the best prospects usually go to work on their games and recover from injury) but never Pags.

Also, what of Pags’ defense? You say “most seem to think Pags’ D isn’t as good as reported”? My response would be first, “not true” and second, “so what.” Most people, including the coaches and baseball people with the Cards, report that his defense/receiving skills are good. Baseball America rated Pags as the top defensive catcher in the Cardinals’ minor league system. Perhaps “most” VEB’ers are not impressed with his defense, but what is that worth? Not much. Doubtful that “most” have seen Pags play any appreciable number of innings and doubtful that they’d know what to look for even if they had. Shit, many true baseball scouts cannot discern objectively good defense from bad, even after watching a player play several or many games. Indeed, the only time I saw Pags play a whole game behind the plate was the recent exhibition at Target Field. I came away very impressed with his defense.

And all of this is besides the fact that our ability to judge catcher defense with statistics is severely limited. We have little understanding of a catcher’s effect on calling a game, framing balls and strikes, or a host of other qualities past simplistic (and flawed) measures like CS%. LaDunc’s heuristics about what constitutues “good defense” are far more reliable, even if flawed (and they may not be), than a bunch of random anecdotes by unexperienced baseball people who haven’t seen Pags play very much, if at all.

In any event, VEB (in the aggregate; individual exceptions aside) is very prone to using the lazy crutch of attribution error as an explanatory device for any Cards’ decision that is the least bit perplexing to them. People glom on to what they suspect are the personal motivations of LaDunc, while ignoring objective, reasonable, contrary evidence that would support a decision. Of course, this isn’t a special failing here, it’s all too common everywhere.

by Willie McGee's Twin on Apr 15, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

explain what you mean by eating crow

or do you mean that literally? never tried it personally.

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 14, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we were all saying that that phrase does not apply here

wouldn’t it work better if Pags got the call up and then proceeded to destroy ML pitching?

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 14, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

hey streeter

out of curiosity, is Anderson listed in SBN’s player tags? can hit ‘edit’ and see…

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Apr 14, 2010 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Umm not sure I'll check

Never did this so I’m a noob with this. I’ll edit it now if possible.

....my quick smells like french toast...

Twitter: @mstreeter06

by mstreeter06 on Apr 14, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Added tags and such

....my quick smells like french toast...

Twitter: @mstreeter06

by mstreeter06 on Apr 14, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

very very cool

gotta see if this guy is a prospect worth anything (so we can trade for a closer)

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 14, 2010 1:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Anderson for Bell!

GOGOGOGOGOGO!!!!

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 15, 2010 4:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.
Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Jack_benny__1__small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bendermad_small azruavatar

Trigun_001_small the red baron

Images_small tom s.

Authors

1989_bgh_cropped_small bgh

Valverde_medium_small vivaelpujols