Chris Carpenter's peculiar way of pitching badly
by DanUpBaby on Apr 12, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
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PrintNow that he's allowed five home runs (six minus one sold-it Rasmus catch) in two games we've come closer than ever to the most frightening of all Chris Carpenter scenarios, one that lurked in the background of the 2008-2009 offseason and departed pretty quickly after his delayed comeback in late May: that there will come a time when Chris Carpenter is both healthy and ineffective.
Of course, it's happened before. There was the 15 runs he allowed in his 17 innings in three consecutive starts in July and August, 2006, culminating in his last three homers allowed performance on the ninth, but given the general malaise of that summer you'd be forgiven for forgetting about Carpenter's particular part in it. Then there was the pounding he took in September, 2005, which almost lost him the Cy Young—four starts, 22 earned runs in 21 2/3 innings, a .375/.406/.583 line against, and an ERA that started the stretch at 2.21 and ended it at 2.83. Last year was the most consistently brilliant he's ever been; he had bad starts, but I'm only barely allowed to use the plural, because there were just two of them.
The bruising Carpenter sometimes takes on balls in play—and sometimes for several starts at a time—seems to me to be an inextricable side-effect of the fineness with which he pitches. His fastball is, at its best, a scout's "92-94", with the kind of movement that gets breaking ball-style flailing strikes, and his curveball is the kind of pitch that, say, Rich Hill lives and dies with. But rather than wasting pitches for low risk strikeout chances he pitches with the aggressive corner-seeking strategy of Tom Glavine, and when the strategy involves putting it where it can almost be hit time after time eventually it's going to be hit, time after time.
Since joining the Cardinals Carpenter's bad games have had one especially peculiar trait in common: he doesn't walk many more batters than he does in his best games. Here are the 20 starts in which he's allowed at least five runs as a Cardinal since 2004, compared to the rest of his St. Louis career:
| GS | IP | H | R | ER | BB | SO | HR | BB/9 | SO/9 | HR/9 | ERA | |
| All Carp | 126 | 865.1 | 753 | 299 | 280 | 175 | 706 | 72 | 1.8 | 7.3 | 0.7 | ERA |
| Bad Carp | 20 | 116.2 | 173 | 123 | 119 | 32 | 99 | 25 | 2.4 | 7.6 | 1.9 | ERA |
Only once has he walked more than three batters in a poor outing, and half of them featured zero or one walk. Bad Carp's K:BB ratio is actually pretty great—he'd have just missed the top ten in the National League in 2009. But he gets terrorized on contact, and allows almost three times as many home runs as the version of Carp with these bad outings mixed in among the good ones.
Carpenter at his worst is scary—the fastballs that Hart and Weeks hit out of the park were in the batting practice part of the zone, and he wasn't about to adjust to his B- stuff by staying out of the zone. If his velocity doesn't recover he'll have to change his plans at some point, and the adjustment period might not be aesthetically pleasing. But his poor performances to start the season are in keeping with the poor performances he's always mixed in with the good ones, and with the rigid pitching style that produces such outstanding results 85% of the time. It'll be time to worry about his stuff when he thinks it's gone, and when that happens we'll be able to tell; he'll have some conventionally bad outings, for a change.
#
In the words of CNN badges from 24 hour news-time immemorial—it's time for a Bullpen Meltdown 2010 update. I liked, for the most part, what I saw out of Blake Hawksworth yesterday (not that I actually saw it.) His fastball is still benefitting from his move to the bullpen, and he's still relying on it pretty heavily. But it was strange to see him go back to the curveball as often as he did—six times in 28 pitches, all fouls or out of the strike zone, after abandoning it almost entirely once he moved to the bullpen full time in 2009. It's a pretty mediocre curveball, and the less we see of it, I think, the better; his fastball and changeup seem like more than enough on which to build a successful relief career.
Speaking of things I'd rather see less often, it's time to start watching how much restraint La Russa manages to show with his outstanding left-handed specialists. Yesterday he left Trever Miller in to throw LOOGY sliders to Ryan Braun, who has a career .360/.426/.700 line against lefties. Prince Fielder was waiting in the wings, but La Russa brought Miller in early to face... Randy Wolf, who is at least left-handed, Rickie Weeks, Jim Edmonds, and Ryan Braun.
#
CORRECTIONS DEP'T—yesterday morning Mr. Moore asserted that Colby Rasmus was leading the team in slugging percentage, claiming it an artifact of a surging team offense that was moving forward quite apart from the multi-million dollar center of the batting order. The multi-million dollar center of the batting order has seen to the matter, and it has now been corrected. Our bad (and, indeed, Trevor Hoffman's.) Warmest regards, the editors.
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Only once has he walked more than three batters in a poor outing, and half of them featured zero or one walk. Bad Carp’s K:BB ratio is actually pretty great—he’d have just missed the top ten in the National League in 2009. But he gets terrorized on contact, and allows almost three times as many home runs as the version of Carp with these bad outings mixed in among the good ones.
This paragraph sort of jumps out at me – to a great extent, does it not appear from this that “bad Carp” is something of a synonym for “unlucky Carp”? His stuff is good enough, and his groundball rate high enough, that he shouldn’t really be going for 5 runs in an average start if he’s maintaining a 3:1 K:BB ratio.
I just don’t find Carpenter in any way worrying when he’s healthy. He’ll have bad starts now and again, and the HRs this year have been concerning, but as long as he’s healthy enough to be on the mound, I just don’t see any way he won’t (at the very least) be a pretty effective pitcher.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 6:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
seconded
yeah, this is worth keeping an eye on. bad carp makes me unhappy.
my first reaction was the same as yours- probably unlucky given the stats.
the guy hasn’t had a bad year since he was in toronto and he had a great year last year. i’m like you, i guess- as long as he’s healthy then i’m not going to worry about it too much.
the second (walk-off) loss… that’s another matter since the pen was a potential weakness coming into the season. yikes.
They say sing while you slave but I just get bored
by Scarecrow7775 on Apr 12, 2010 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions
We can't win every game
We’ve only been on the road and we’ve been in every game at the end. Our bullpen isn’t great but I would read too deeply into FESPN-style stats like # of walk off L’s
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 12, 2010 8:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
*wouldn't
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 12, 2010 8:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If we could win 2/3 of the games in every road trip
Well, that’d be awesome.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
2/3 of every series would be awesome
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
That would be a helluva season right there.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Apr 12, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
but
how many chances will you have to win in which giving up one run in extras or bottom of the ninth? not that many that you can afford to waste them like we did this trip.
kmac is not a relief pitcher, at least nor for high leverage situations. if he is in the pen, he needs to be the new puppy kicker (who is kicking puppies at AAA right now).
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
A few layman's questions.
1. In the compiled “Bad Carp” outings, can you tell which of those games had isolated incidences (i.e., one bad inning) versus plain ol’ bad starts? I wonder for the primary reason of further pinpointing information. Game One was an eye-brow raiser – two HRAs during an otherwise tidy start – while Game Six was pungent – Mill-e-wah-que scored in every inning except the fourth off of Carp.
2. Had the lineup NOT gone all looney-tunes (our emergency catcher debuts in the sixth game of the season? 6ly?), could LaRue have feasibly sussed K-Mac through the heart of their order? I know Stav and K-Mac were probably taking pitching orders straight from the bench, but still …
As it stands, I’m glad the Heart of Our Order got Carp off the hook for the loss. I guess I would have liked to see us throw something reasonable against them in the ninth to try to push it to extras.
Whether it’s related or not, last night I dreamt that, in our first game against the Royals this year, they started Ankiel against us, as some cruel joke, something just to screw with us.
@aaronjscott
Velocity
Didn’t look like Carp had his normal juice on fastball last nice.
Concerned?
He's no spring chicken
So I’ll try not to freak out but Im concerned
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 12, 2010 9:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My heart was in my throat after the first inning,
when he broke 90 only once or twice and gave up two HRs. He settled down, however, and topped out at (i think) 93. He’s still not up to speed from what I saw.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I'm still kind of uneasy that he stretched his leg out like that
while standing, lifting it with his hand, right before first pitch.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I keep going back to
how disgusted he was with himself after almost every pitch. He’d throw a pitch and then look down in disgust. I don’t know where his landing point was off or whether he just wasn’t feeling it.
For as mentally tough as Carp is 99% of the time, I think part of his issue last night was beating himself up mentally.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
perfectionists
we’ve stocked our team with them!
what shall we do. maybe call John Smoltz? wait…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
He's probably playing golf with Joe Morgan.
Since that’s what Joe Morgan does on his days off.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
on really nice golf courses
what if it was Jimmy? now there would be some juicily specious gossip. y’know, buy a round of drinks with the old gang… plant a few seeds of discord…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Yer a devious bastard Yadi2
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Apr 12, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
#2 is a good point i hadn't thought of
if la rue (or better yet molina) is catching in the 9th, maybe, just maybe, k-mac doesn’t give up that bomb. i imagine it must be tough pitching to a guy who’s never caught in a major league game.
funny though, when it happened, i wasn’t really upset. i had been expecting that HR – maybe not that particular HR, but a walk-off win, nonetheless. guess ‘08 was good for something. i’m desensitized to bullpen woes.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
we didn't tire our guys out for the home opener with extra innings
(Trying to keep the glass half full)
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 12, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
puhlease....
Did you see the pitch? It was supposed to be on the outer half. KMac threw it belt high, inside half, right into McGehee’s wheelhouse. How can this be the catcher’s fault?
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
Catchers have zero impact.
Reminds me of that old “Catcher’s ERA” stat. What a complete waste of math.
Same with Ankiel. Didn’t matter who was behind the plate he would still be playing OF for the Royals.
by Tom_Lawless_Bat_Flip on Apr 12, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I have thought for a while now that catcher defense is somewhat over-rated.
I still think it’s, defensively, probably as important as any position on the field, but I think the actual difference in ability to prevent of the best and worst catchers is smaller than for most other positions (ergo, catcher defense isn’t actually that valuable).
Just a wild-ass theory, though.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
that should've read "prevent runs"
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
The player catching had no effect on K-Mac horribly missing his spot.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
unless there's something about Stav's face.
but really, he’s not that bad. he’s just in a clubhouse full of hotmakers…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
he was wearing Yadi's gear
hopefully Yadi disinfects it today
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
by STLRegalia on Apr 12, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
spants and 'em pointed out it wasn't the regular Gold Glove gear.
Yadi keeps extras in case mere mortals require them.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
but it's still his
so he better hose it off
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
that's pretty cold, yo.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Hottie Hotmaker FTW!
Hotti Hotlina
Hotme Hotcia
Hotam Hotwright
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Apr 12, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that's the one.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm expecting a mentos-style photoshop any day now.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Hotson Hotrue
Hot McHotllen
Hotlipe Hotpez
Hotbert Hotjols (!!!)
Hott Hottiday
Hotan Hotwick
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Apr 12, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm gonna have to start calling Lopez "Hotlips"
Hawkeye’s gonna piss him off so much that he’s gonna threaten to resign his commission.
Ahem. Anyway, Hotbert Hotjols is definitely my favorite.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Does anyone else think Ludwick
is just super goofy looking?
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Apr 12, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Seat's taken
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
aaaand
here goes another legitimate baseball conversation devolved into meme wanking
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Apr 12, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
All it would take to continue it is another on-topic comment
Then people could respond to your input.
Or, I guess, you could complain about it.
or... read the serious responses and notice they're all in agreement and saying essentially the same thing...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
the conversation isn't over
until it’s a cowversation
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Not to sound like I'm attacking you
But, do you think comments like this one lead to more “meme-wanking” in the face of passive-aggressive slaps like this?
I’m all for serious baseball talk, but the nagging tone that reads in (for me at least) would only seem to encourage said wanking.
Complaining about memes is the new meme
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
So you're saying we have memes about memes
about not having memes anymore?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not summing this up.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
To the tune of Sweet Caroline, please.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
meme me up, yadi
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
by cardball on Apr 12, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It don't mean a thing
if it ain’t got that meme?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
rec for you, sire
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I Watched Part of the Game...
…and it seemed to me that the Brew Crew were very aggressive swingers last night, perhaps anticipating Carp’s tendency to throw strikes. of course, two Freese errors didn’t help either, and sometimes a pitcher feels he has to do it all by themselves when they feel that their infield is letting them down. And hay, hats off to the Brewers too; they have a good hitting team, and Casey Mcghee is as good as advertised to far (as expected, which is why I drafted him). As I recall from lat year, the mark of the Brewers was either a hit or a K, and not mooch in-between. This game the averages caught up with Carp. I’m not too worried overall. Now, KMac, on the udder hoof…
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
Aggressive swings
The Brewers’ aggressiveness at the plate reminded me a lot of the Dodgers in the NLDS. In fact, both Carp and the opposition reminded me of Game 1 a lot.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
If I watched gameday correctly, in game 1 he missed both the strike zone and bats more than yesterday
Anywho, does anyone remember if he was on his regular turn in game 1 last fall? I feel like Carp on extra rest never looks quite right.
he was on 6 days rest
and for his career, he’s a bit worse on 6+ days rest than on 4-5.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
I agree,
He seems to be out of sync a lot more if he has more if he’s off more than every fifth day. He just never looks quite right.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Apr 12, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point.
He was having quick innings even while giving up multiple runs.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Fun weekend
Was out of town but managed to catch the Friday game and last night. Looking back at game threads makes me want to vomit with regard to all the hatred for Stav. What happened to just rooting for the guy on your team? At any rate, I enjoyed the hell out of his kneeling HR and his catching last night was entertaining. Great to see Craig finally get his first hit as well.
Freese looked nervous but I think he’ll be fine. And after looking locked in all spring what has happened to Ludwick?
Hey Ump!
Speaking of Friday night's game,
how was Lohse’s placement ATG/other pitch fx analyzer? Watching on TV, it looked like he was missing a lot of close calls, racking up balls. What does the pitch fx look like for that game?
@aaronjscott
by musialsuspects on Apr 12, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
lohse pitched well
he was getting squeezaed all night
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Apr 12, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
We don't hate stav, he's no Joe thurston
We just fear him catching and don’t want him taking AB’s from better players. And the kneeling HR was sweet
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 12, 2010 9:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think his ability to catch now and again is potentially slightly useful, actually
I certainly wouldn’t begrudge him being behind the plate for half a dozen innings this year, in very specific situations.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Assuming he stops giving up home runs.
Heh heh heh.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Freese
At the risk of being redundant, I’ll repeat my comment to your April 6 post. Erratic throws and not getting in front of ground balls is going to get him a seat on the bench or a visit to Memphis. He’s not as valuable as Lopez offensively and if he isn’t any better defensively, why is he playing? Last night he cost Bad Carp quite a few pitches by screwing up a double play with an erratic throw and not getting in front of a ball with men on base. Pitching to contact needs effective defense. He now has three errors in five games played and 4 for 18 isn’t exactly tearing it up with the bat. Also, I don’t think it was a coincidence that Lopez made a couple of nice defensive plays when he replaced Ryan Friday night and found himself in the lineup Saturday and Sunday. He’s the best fit to hit #2. As far as Carp goes, he’s struggled early since the Dodger playoff game. He does not seem to have his usual fluidity and is falling off more than usual toward first base with his delivery.
by vinniefromjersey on Apr 12, 2010 8:53 AM EDT reply actions
Lopez is only a stop gap
He’s on a 1 year deal and if we panic by benching Freese now then we create another black hole at 3B that requires filing. It costs us two prime relief prospects to fill the hole for three months last season. Luddy’s getting expensive in RF. Lopez should also command substantially more on the open market next season (assuming he puts up numbers comparable to last season). Yes, there are marginal costs to sticking with Freese right now but the payoff if he succeeds is huge in the form of five or six cost controlled seasons.
The luxury of playing in the NL Central is that we can carry a below replacement level Freese at 3B for a good chunk of the season before benching him and not seriously damage our playoff chances. If we get into the 2nd half of the season and David Freese still can’t field his position, then I’m fine with benching him or banishment to Memphis. If Freese seriously implodes early in 2010 and has to be pulled ASAP, then I’d prefer we platoon Craig at 3B before turning it over to Lopez on a full time basis.
Freese was never considered a bad fielder in the minor leagues
he’s clearly not the smooth gloveman that he was advertised (in some quarters) to be, but seriously, he hasn’t become such a bad defender overnight that Allen Craig or Joe Mather is suddenly a better option.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
well it's not so much that
as the quality of the errors. like they’re… okay, I don’t have the best eye for fast stuff, but even I knew it looked all wrong. fundamentals all-wrong.
we have an entire staff of pitchers who depend on scooping up the groundballs. that infield was supposed to be a steel trap, even Skip.
so I reserve the right to be sternly disappointed.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, yes, and yes.
He’s not a gold glover. He’s not going to put up a .995 fielding percentage.
But, the expectation is that he make the routine plays, whether it is April 12 or September 12. He’s a major-league baseball player and he’s been seeing grounders like that for his entire life, presumably.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
when the FESPN crack team can find a camera shot
clearly showing he had a lot of time to plant his feet and throw to second, and circle it with their magical marker, it might be a bit of a problem.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't even know about that
I actually think he looks pretty smooth (even the throwing error was preceded by a nice pickup of the short hop) but he’s just making mental mistakes out the ass right now.
Not afraid to nitpick
i think this is a good assessment
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Apr 12, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
i think it's been mental also
too much thinking, seems nervous as hell. and now he’s literally going home – could get worse before it gets better.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yes... overthinking
that opening day pick down the line was quite nice… the more routine plays have been the issue. last night’s error was just a lack of confidence, and the ball played him.
yeah
seems like when all he can do is react, he does well. but when he has plenty of time to think about the play, he’s throwing the ball away, letting it go between his legs, etc. he’ll probably work through once he gets a bit more comfortable this level. it’d be a mistake to be too reactionary and pull him from full-time duties this early
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
It's still a bit early
Sure, in a given game, I’d rather have Lopez at third than Freese. But to bury a rookie based on a terrible first week would also be a mistake. I remember the first month of Dustin Pedroia’s rookie season in Boston. He couldn’t hit, he was making errors and baserunning mistakes, and fans were screeching for more Alex Cora. I’m not saying that Freese is going to win Rookie of the Year, nor am I saying that he’ll turn it around, but we need a larger sample size. (Personally, I think he sucks, but I want to give him a fair chance.)
by olddomination on Apr 12, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
i'd rather see flopez starting at 3B at this point.
3 errors in 5 games is not okay.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Rookie third baseman plays badly in 6 games shock!
Bring your pitchfork!
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
you take that back
we did not get into ad hominem shouting matches over the interpretation of reality using nothing but off-color gifs.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Our first high and mighty act
regarding game threads for 2010. Paposse, ladies and gentlemen.
/sarcasm
This comes up every year. Gamethreads are in the moment discussions that aren’t intended to be deeply reflective or contemplative. Can’t we just let people enjoy the game (within reason) without having to worry about censors chastising them the next morning? Freese played poorly last night; he got razzed because of it. It wasn’t unseemly or apocalyptic. It was reactive, which is to be expected in a game thread.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
and really, it wasn't that bad.
it wasn’t close to being out-of-hand. except for any comments about Joe Morgan, but that’s kind of understandable.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
And can we give TIT a break on the graph...
the GOBS don’t… actually… exist.
[ducks]
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
Yeah, I feel a little badly about jumping on that now.
The clear light of day…
by peach concrete on Apr 12, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
That's what she said.
You can read it in any tone you like.
by spants on Apr 12, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
That's not Freese's nose, that's a false nose.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Freese turned me into a newt!
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
He turned you into a newt?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I got better...
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
But there are ways of telling if he is a witch
Burn Him, BUUUUUURRRRNNN HIM!
/I do not actually want to burn him.
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
throw him into the pond!
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
build a bridge out of me!
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
little bitty tiny pebbles
GREAT GRAVY
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
Cider!
Lead lead!
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 12, 2010 12:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
A duck!
Who is so wise in the ways of science!
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 12, 2010 12:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"I am Not An Animal!!"
“Awlright, maybe I am , but Tastee is ok, just give him a few weeks to git used to the Bigs”.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
You're really milking this cow act, aren't you?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather we steer clear of this line of conversation.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well...
At this point it’s just udder nonsense.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its all part of a Cow-Moo-nist Cowspiracy...
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Apr 12, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have no beef with your views.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cud be a herd mentality, though
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Apr 12, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The trouble with Freese
is not just that he has made errors. I don’t think he has fielded one ball cleanly when the ball was hit hard. That is not a good thing for someone playing the “hot-corner,” especially as replays have shown he often hasn’t squared up to the ball when he had time. Now he must be better than that, but Freese is playing third based on his defensive ability. Can Craig be that much worse a fielder at third?
Carp's mechanics
I noticed him falling off towards first as well. I imagine that when he gets his mechanics in order we will see better command and velocity.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
by indakind on Apr 12, 2010 12:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If there's something to be noticed, Carp will notice it and fix it.
This is good news. Gentlepeoples, continue breathing until his next start.
I think not getting behind grounders is the most aggravating part
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
As meaningless as they are, here are the missing ERAs in the table
For those interested:
Good Carp: 2.91
Bad Carp: 9.18
While I understand that ERA is definitely not an exact measure of how skilled a pitcher is ...
… isn’t it their job to keep runners from touching home plate? Especially a starter? I don’t think that ERA is a meaningless stat. Obviously there is a correllation since Good Carp has a Good ERA and Bad Carp has a Bad ERA.
Does it paint the full picture? No. Is it just another tool to measure a (starting) pitcher’s performance? Yes. Am I going to continue to pose and answer my own questions? Maybe.
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Apr 12, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes! Mind like a steel trap!
He looked pretty sharp. 7 K’s in 4 scoreless innings. I was 4 rows from the field between the dugout and home plate … his fastball seriously pops the catcher’s mitt.
Stock looked decent at the plate and behind the plate too. Threw out two guys and tagged a guy out on a play at home. He was safe though. The tag was high and he wasn’t blocking the plate well.
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Apr 12, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
What exactly are you referring to?
I noticed a guy named Trout … who is he?
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Apr 12, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
He's the Angels...
super duper #1 CF prospect. He was drafted late first round last year. I think he walked twice.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
Wish I'd have known that.
I could have been harrassing him mercilessly the whole day.
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Apr 12, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Mike Trout
Angels OF prospect.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
that's awesome
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Well this is also the ultimate king of selection bias
We’re picking the games where he likely has the worst luck on BIP. Yeah he’s also getting bombed, but no matter what a guy with a 3/1 K/BB is not going to have a 9+ ERA long term.
Not afraid to nitpick
Didn't VEP write an article for THT about how there is very little difference in the peripherals
of pitchers “Good Starts” and “Bad Starts?” This is the same thing. Just luck.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I'd like to see GB%
Because the HR/9 doesn’t scream luck to me. Especially last night.
Not afraid to nitpick
Except that all of those HRs were BOMBS
No wall-scrapers. He’s actually lucky (Colby selling it) that his HR/9 isn’t higher right now
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh sorry
Misread
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
He did on about AJ Burnett,
showing that his good starts were against the Nationals, Orioles, etc, and his bad starts came against the Yankees and other good offenses.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
I only called them meaningless because they were what we expected — really, really good and really, really bad. They don’t really mean too much because they’re exactly the deciding factor upon which we make the “cut” between good & bad — they don’t tell much more of a story than what we already knew based on whether it was taken from Good Carp or Bad Carp. Hence the “meaningless” tag.
I'm a huge saberhead
And I have no problem with ERA as a measure of past performance. It’s not really skill sensitive, so it’s not really good at predicting future performance (or, as you said, measuring the skill level of a pitcher), but it definitely is a measure of actual, realized performance. FIP is another good stat for past performance, but it bothers me that it’s not measured in runs. It’s merely scaled to look like ERA. My favorite stat for past performance is WPA because even though it’s not defense independent, it’s measured in real, honest to goodness wins (not hypothetical wins like WAR).
Stlcardinals has this written under the McGwire comes home for the opener headline
“Mark McGwire has been to a fan event at the new Busch Stadium, but never a game.”
I shit you noot, epic editor fail.
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 12, 2010 9:23 AM EDT reply actions
Did you sit next to him at a game in New Busch?
Is that how you know this is incorrect?
Testicle-exploding shit storms, to date: T.E.S.S '08, T.E.S.S '09
If I recall correctly
Earlier this winter, during fan-fest, there were multiple mentions of it being McGwire’s first trip to the ballpark when he went over there for a hitting session with the likes of Freese and Rasmus. This is of course, provided that I am accurately remembering all of this.
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
I don't get it
when has gone to see a game at Busch? I’m pretty sure it would’ve been in the papers. He was a virtual recluse between the stadium opening and this season.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Off to work to miss opening day :(
GO Cards!
The bible declares an eye for an eye, so, let us now take our vengeance on this murderous ocean. . . You won't be hurting anyone anymore
by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Apr 12, 2010 9:25 AM EDT reply actions
Worries
Defense: Freese’s defense was terrible in Spring Training and terrible so far this year. He has a minor league reputation as a good defender, but if he is this bad, how much worse could Mather or Craig have been defensively? I hope it is just early season jitters and he gets it together, but Tony isn’t going to let it go too far. Holiday has been OK defensively so far, but he seems shaky on every ball hit out there. I hope he doesn’t become a DH 2 years into a 7 year contract with a no trade clause.
The Bullpen: I thought this was the teams biggest area of need this past offseason and it did not get addressed. How is Motte in the majors with only one pitch? Send this guy down and teach him a changeup and maybe a split-finger. Don’t bring him back up until he can USE other pitches. I hope Moz hasn’t lost Smoltz or Springer’s phone numbers. I am a fan of Franklin, but I would feel so much better if there was some reliable backup for him.
Other than that, the rotation looks good, offense looks pretty good, defense in most areas looks good. The team is fun to watch.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
I think most here feel the exact way
And it is a fun team to watch for the most part. Even though they are only 1-2 when falling behind by a run, in the two games they lost they did come back to tie (thanks to Holliday HRs) before getting Mottclellan’ed. There’s no shutting off the game and going to bed when falling behind 2-0 this year.
by olddomination on Apr 12, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I am a fan of Franklin
I think most here feel the exact way
I….. didn’t know….
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Mariano Rivera only has one pitch.
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Apr 12, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
...
http://twitter.com/KenTremendous/status/5331177609
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Apr 12, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
yes but it is probably the single best pitch in all of baseball, ever
taking the widest, most extreme outlier that you can possibly find and pretending it’s the norm is not very convincing!
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
also
he throws a straighter, quicker fastball (can’t recall but I think it’s a 4-seamer) as well as the cutter. So that’s not even really correct.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm not pretending it's the norm
i was just being disagreeable/pointing out dramatic hyperbole
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Apr 12, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, well, Bob Gibson could pitch 600 innings in a year if he wanted and pitch the whole damn game
And if his arm felt tired he’d rub some dirt in it.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
You were mentioning something about the grass at the front of your house.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's an interesting side plot to the whole Brewers series
If he continues to struggle, I wonder what they will do with him?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
when a pony has a broken limb
you shoot it. Hope he’s just old and ready to go out to stud and not hurt. It’d be a shame to see Ken Macha pull out the shotgun and put a slug in him.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Seemed like he was almost afraid to throw his change last night
He went cutter to K Stav and went to it again with Albert. Seems in the past he could throw that changeup without fear of it getting put in play.
Not afraid to nitpick
On Hoffman
the Brewers put up that display in centerfield on him approaching 600 saves – he has been lousy since they did that – don’t fool with the GOBs
The Cubs bullpen looks pretty bad right now, too
Marshall is good (and should probably be in the rotation) and Marmol is dominant when he throws strikes…but beyond that, it’s something of a wasteland. Grabow was a terrible signing — career WHIP of 1.45! Caridad and Berg and Russell and Samardjsijazaa all fail to inspire confidence.
So at least it’s not just us, I guess.
Astros pen is turd, too.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 13, 2010 7:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think I've ever heard someone say that something "is turd," but I like it.
Going to have to steal that from you.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
look on the bright side, Kyle McClellan
at least this time you didn’t cost the starter a win.
/goat-baiting
If I were constructing some kind of over-dramatic FESPN “storyline”, I would note that other than Carp, the two goats of the game are St. Louis natives on the even of Opening Day. Then I would remember that FESPN doesn’t do research on that level, nor would have the imagination to make the connection.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
^eve, to be modern about it.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
verily.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
and forsooth
Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Apr 12, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Hershiser made a remark last night
to the effect that it wasn’t too surprising for a starter to have a poor 2nd start. Something about hitting a wall or something, post-spring training. Bullshit? Probably, but I’m looking for positives here.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 12, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
ask him to tell that to Roy Halladay...
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
He used the phrase "dead arm"
which is not at all positive in my mind…
Also, it seemed like Carp was overthrowing, leaving stuff up.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
What does Orel Hershiser know about pitching?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
at times it felt like he wanted to punch Joe Morgan in the face
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I was SO HOPING.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
They traded "verbal barbs"
as they say in the business.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
might make sunday night baseball worth watching all year
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I'll do more than trading verbal barbs....
I mean did it not annoy the hell out of anyone else that we spent an entire inning talking about nothing but Joe Morgan questioning market size.
My fiance looked at me like I was crazy when I muted the tv and finished watching the entire inning with no sound.
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
My friends and I turned off the TV volume that inning
And turned up the volume on The Show. We’d rather listen to recorded video game announcers than hear Joe Morgan ramble on and on about small markets.
He kept calling him out on that "what's a small market" comment.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
And then brought it back to
the Brewers not being able to outbid the Yankees for CC, which was a brilliant strategy to win the argument.
It was mind-numbing. I loved when Morgan asked why they were comparing the Yankees to the Brewers (before bringing up CC). Okay, fair enough. Fielder is a Boras client. Boras clients tend to hit the open market and not sign extensions. Who will be competing for Fielder’s services? Potentially, the Mets, Red Sox, Cubs, White Sox. Say the Yanks are not in on Fielder, which they likely won’t be due to Teixeira and an aging Jeter hitting at DH, the Brewers still have to compete against half of the top 10 in payroll.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
You can't compare them to theYankess
Because the Yankees are the largest market team. But when are they a small market team? ARRRGG!
precisely
he used game attendance [and the revenue it generates] to try to discredit market size relevance but then said it wasn’t fair to look at the Yankees Revenue stream because they have a national market. But if the Yankees pay someone shit tons of money because they can… that sets the market rate.
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
The whole conversation could be used by a philosophy professor
to demonstrate the difference between bad logic and good logic.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I didn't have my laptop for the game day thread..
But the whole “when is a team a small market team” Was pissing me off to no end. They are a small market team when they live an area that doesn’t have a lot of people. That’s not hard is it?
meanwhile, the curse of the sausage plagues Jason LaRue
Maybe he and the bratwurst are soulmates
just like Colby and McGwire.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
that's quite an age discrepancy
between Jason and the bratwurst, I mean.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
So Sausage Party has some savory or unsavory overtones
with our beloved pornstached one?
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
i understood that they're generally savory.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Does McGwire whisper in Colby's ear now?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Is the man stew becoming a sausage festival?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I thought that's what it was!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not a lemon party anymore without old dick.
by Mister Eff on Apr 12, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So when are we calling up Ruben Goatse?
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
First a tub girl reference, now goatse?
Git yer mind outta the gutter, JD!
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Yadier Molina and Nick Stavinoha
Two catchers one mitt
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
rec-tified
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
I thought I had rid my mind of
such horrific thoughts years ago.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
welcome to VEB
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Thanks.
I wasn’t sure where I was at.
Just wandered through a red door, following a sign that said “Memes This Way”.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to say this
Because nobody else is — if you don’t know what goatse is, and either you’re at work or you’re not a fan of seeing shock images, DO NOT GOOGLE IT.
I feel like people should be warned.
Don't google Mister Eff's much more subtle mention of lemon party either
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
See, I happily have no idea what "lemon party" refers to
And I aim to keep it that way.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Somehow I think it
the same result as a golden shower.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
hmmm...i just thought of "mud bath"
yikes, i disgust myself.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
too late!
Ohhhh, my poor, naive eyes!
Cardinals Baseball 2010...Catch the Infection!
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Apr 12, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm giddy at the thought of Pagnozzi being called up
and seizing the starting role from Molina by going 10 for 10 with 4 HR and 20 RBI. 8 of those hits come on 2 cycles and the other 2 are grand slam home runs.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure VEB is the place for that sort of language.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
All I'm saying is that I see a screenname change
to Pags2Second in your future.
:)
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
aaaaah
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
In all seriousness
Bryan Anderson’s started the season really well in Memphis. Hit a dinger the other day whilst catching 18 (yes, that wasn’t a typo) innings against Omaha.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
His only chance is if he becomes tradeable again.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
best deal if for gags to come up
and sit, while anderson gets all the starts at memphis
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
someone said that was like half-price tickets!
mmmm doubleheaders.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
that was italian sausage, not bratwurst
even then, you’d have to go into the Reds minor leagues stuff to find out about Mudflaps
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
i did tell you in ST the man was made
Of turkey sausage and bourbon.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Apr 12, 2010 11:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is true
I recall this particular comment.
And I have not [expletive] clue as to why I remember it.
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
prescient.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Some PitchFX stats on Carp...
Last night, the max speed on his fastball was 92.5 MPH.
Also, check out the numerous amount of pitches that he threw middle up. When Carp is dealing he’s dropping that curveball in the bottom of the zone and working the slider/cutter away from right-handed batters and pounding lefties inside.
I’m also noticing that he wasn’t coming inside much at all to righties, which may be an indication that he knew his fastball didn’t have the usual giddyup.
I’m no analyst, but that’s what this information is telling me. Thoughts?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
fail again
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Apr 12, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Stupid rules.
It’s not letting me post or link the image, so find it yourself.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
suggestion
all you have to do is right click on the image and save it to your computer. from there, you can use an image hosting site (flickr, photobucket, whatever) to host the image yourself. you can then get an image code from that site, and plug it into the image feature on this site.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 12, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
TWSS?
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Apr 12, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
on a side note...
now that they caught you trying to use their shit, big brother has now logged you into THE database. You will be scheduled for a internet flogging at a most inconvenient time.
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
or perhaps
the dramatic win so inspires the Brewers that they win the series against the cubs.
hmmmm.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
I'm sure they are tired
from their Chuck-E-Cheese style ball-pit orgy at Ryan Braun’s Waterside Grill & Chippendale’s Club.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather the Cubs sweep
I think the Brewers are the bigger threat of the two…
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
but there's no pain like cubbie pain
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
Good to see Boog make contact and look competent at the plate.
Also good to see Flippy lace a couple doubles.
Unless Freese starts to rake, I can see him getting squeezed out of the picture. His defense last night was not cutting it. The in-between hop/weird throw to second is semi-understandable, as I don’t consider it to be a routine play.
Backing up on a grounder and playing it to the side is inexcusable in my book. Especially considering that this guy is a third baseman, not someone who has been converted to the hot corner.
He really laced one double
Corey Hart handed the other one to him on a shiny platter of fielding fail.
it was hit hard at least. (FWIW)
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
For the most part
I like how most of the hitters adjusted to Wolf. He shut us down in the playoffs (66mph curveball…really?), but the Cards drew a good amount of walks, which last year, woudl never have happened.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Agreed.
They will be facing a pitcher this afternoon (Wandy Rodriguez) who employs a philosophy similar to Wolf, in that he will change speeds frequently.
Hopefully the offense is still dialed in.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the trick against those sort of pitcher
is patience, patient, patience. If you’re not offering at anything on the edges of the zone, they either have to throw it through the eye of a needle to strike you out, walk you, or adjust their mediocre stuff and start throwing it more over the plate. What’s that, Hal McRae? Aggression, you say? Hmmm….
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Sooner or later
A ghost of Hal McRae is going to appear……..
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Hal McRae, one of Joe Morgan's favorite people!
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
did they have a chat on the golf course?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Made that first inning very frustrating though
Let’s just keep popping up to get him out of it. Solid plan.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
That's one of my least favorite things to watch
When the opposing starter struggles and can’t find the zone from the get-go, and we swing at crap and make easy outs instead of being patient and maybe, just maybe, scoring some runs.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
well, what can you expect
our 3-4 hitters aren’t exactly pujols-holliday…wait, that’s the brewers, right?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Who can we petition to eliminate tomorrow's off day?
This seems like something that Albert could mandate.
mangdate
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Sounds like a decree from Pujols
but also an evening out for Boog and Bombs.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
they stay in, don't they?
with their ring pop
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Shouldn't McGwire have realized before the season that Colby had problems with lefties.
“He’s got a really consistent approach,” said McGwire, admitting that he was unaware of Rasmus’ poor splits against lefthanded pitching last season. "He remembers a lot. He works hard. He’s got tremendous ability. There’s no reason he won’t hit them.
Just seems like something you might realize as the hitting coach.
I see what you're saying.
But I think McGwire would tell you that he is more concerned about fundamentals and approach than he is about numbers.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Ultimately, however
he is more concerned with hitting dingers than he is about fundamentals, approach AND numbers.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
FWIW
Colby started the playoff game against Wolf when he was with the Dodgers last year, AND started the next game against the best lefty in the NL last season, Clayton Kershaw. Tony likes to shuffle lineups and play small edges during the season, especially early, so he can shake out who is and is not going to be an effective member of the team. Suffice to say, he’ll get plenty of starts against lefties this year, even with Mather making web-gems in the outfield on his days off, and he’ll start all the important games against lefties as the season progresses. Especially if he continues to have such a great approach at the plate and reaching base better than 40% of the time.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
+1
Totally right… This happens every year: TLR does his thing, it irritates everyone to no end, and then when it counts the best players play. It happened in 2006 when he went with Kinney and TJ over Bloop and Flores and then again last year. And he has a lot of sorting out to do this year.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
I was fine with Colby not starting last night.
Colby had not yet had a day off. The club is facing back-to-back lefty starters, so why not let him rest Sunday night in Milwaukee to play him at the home opener? Makes sense to me.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
i kind of read that as
mcgwire trying to build Colby’s confidence.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -the modern lovers
Silver-ish lining? You be the judge.
The home run allowed by McClellan was the only run allowed by the bullpen in 9 1/3 innings pitched this series.
I was impressed.
also, man, I love our lefties. when did that happen?!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I am a big fan of Trevor Miller
If only the rest of our relievers were as consistent as he was last year.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
and Trever is badass.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
not a big enough fan to learn his name, apparently
/spelling nazi
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh god damnit!
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
Pujols and Holliday...
Albert Pujols and Matt Holliday teamed for three home runs in Sunday’s last three innings. For the six-game trip, the Cardinals Dynamic Duo amassed a .400 batting average, .800 slugging percentage, 15 runs, 16 RBI and 43 of the team’s 96 total bases.
This needs to happen every series, please.
I dunno, I'd prefer a lower percentage of the team's total bases.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I dunno, I just like our lineup, up and down
for once I’d like to see them all get hot at the same time.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
TB doesn't account for walks, correct?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
let's go!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
it's actually "that triple, double, single, that smooth home run"
"The outfield is deep and playing him straight-away, and the infield is the same, except first, second, third, and short are playing him to pull."
-Mike Shannon
by tehzachatak on Apr 12, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I have the remix on my MP3 player.
True story.
by notmorganfreeman on Apr 12, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
it doesn't, really?
well then… that’s different. I do love them walks.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
as long as "the same time" means
The next seven months.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Apr 12, 2010 11:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't have pitch F/X for those starts you listed, Dan
But I’m going to make a general assumption that Carp was having trouble keeping his fastball down in the zone during those starts. I specifically remember this from ‘05 and ’06 because he simply didn’t look like the pitcher he had been during the rest of the season. Lot’s of swinging strikes with the breaking stuff, few walks, but his fastball was thigh-high or above and was getting crushed all over the ball park. I don’t think he has the velocity to throw up there all the time, and when he missed location in the middle of the plate and up, he’s going to get hit hard.
The last sentence sums it up for me: He’s not walking more guys in those starts because he’s not missing location outside the strike zone, he’s missing location INSIDE the strike zone and daring those hitters to do something with it. Now, if Freese is able to get him out of those two innings, we might have seen a few things different in the subsequent innings, so let’s not put this all on Carpenter, he’s going with his game plan — make them put the ball in play and don’t give away any free passes. That’s going to lead to some bad starts when you’re missing in the strike zone and your defense isn’t helping you.
All the homers he’s give up this year have been on high fastballs that have caught the middle third of the plate. He made Prince Fielder look so awful last night that Prince was embarrassed enough to nearly break his hand in frustration. It’s not that he had bad stuff, it just seemed like his fastball wasn’t quite there and he wasn’t able to put it where he wanted to.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Regarding the Princess tantrum...
Everything in the dugout seemed to be padded. It’s like the organization knew someone was going to have a tantrum at some point and wanted to mitigate the damage.
The bench was padded, the railing was padded…
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
hahahha
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps if they padded the baseball
he would have hit one last night.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
by fourstick on Apr 12, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha, snap
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Apr 12, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You know who DOES have a pitchF/X for those starts?
Brad Penny.
He hoards them. That’s how he does it.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Freese
He just doesn’t look fundamentally sound to me. His feet seem like they’re out of position a lot and he doesn’t take the time to set them properly for making a throw. Lopez looks more comfortable at 3B and he’s hardly played 3B in his career — Freese has been playing 3B for most of his life. I guess I would expect him to look more comfortable playing there.
That said, the throw to second was bad, but Lopez was also out of position if you look at the replay. He wasn’t behind the bag where he was supposed to be. Almost like he was expecting Freese to lead him across the bag with the throw, which would then have the chance at striking the runner and bouncing into right field. Watch Skip when he’s taking a route to second base: He’s behind the bag (a step or so towards LF) and then comes through the bag during the the throw. Lopez was on top of the bag to start with. When this happens, he’s not going to be able to adjust to an errant throw to make sure of at least one out, which is exactly what happened. I think there should be a stat for “team errors” like team turnovers in basketball. This was a team error, bad throw, bad position = bad outcome.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Scoot made this point last night,
but he felt that after watching the replay that the blame was still pretty much Freeze’s. I agree though that he wasn’t in the best position to recover an errant throw.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Agreed
Most of it is on Freese — he probably wasn’t getting a double play with Braun running, so the best play was probably to tag the lead runner which could have easily been done. It was a bad decision made worse by poor execution.
Lopez definitely should have been in position to catch that ball for an out though.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i wonder
was the bad throw part;y a reflection of floppy getting to the bag too early? he turns to throw to the bag, but has to change and throw in front to lead floppy. common reaction to hold the grip too long when you have to change your intended target for a throw in quick time.
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
It was a pure sidearm
throw by Freese that was the culprit. Sidearming makes the ball hard enough to control in the best of circumstances, but doing it while running and possibly off-balance is asking for trouble.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 12, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
oh gawd i was right
they’re all turning into Boog.
noooooo. only Boog can be Boog. don’t try it, it’s all wronggggg.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
It was mostly Freese
If he makes a good throw, Floppy has an outside shot of turning two and we get AT LEAST one out. Similarly, he could have tagged the lead runner and gotten at least one out. The throw led to the worst of all the possible scenarios.
I’m just pretty positive that had Lopez approached the bag properly we could have at least had the out at second base, the ball would not have gotten away, and a run would not have scored on the play, thus giving us 1st and 3rd with two out instead of a run and 1st and 3rd with one out.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i am really, really surprised you're blaming that on lopez.
that was all freese all day.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
Lopez has a job
and that job is to prevent an inaccurate throw from getting away. He didn’t do that, and I think his approach at the bag was a reason.
Freese made a bad throw, but if you’re Lopez you have to keep that ball from getting away.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
i just saw the stuff from above.
i sort of see where you’re coming from, but at some poiint, a throw is so bad that it just can’t be saved. i think last night’s throw was one of them. seemed the flopez stretched as far as he could.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
personally
I saw that as Freese throwing it so badly that Lopez couldn’t even catch it
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched the replay a bunch of times just now
I really don’t think there’s much Felipe could have done on that throw. It was a pretty terrible feed, and Floppy seemed (to me) to be in the right position to take the throw. Not trying to gang up, just throwing my opinion into the ring.
Nothing bothers me quite like bad defense
by FlimtotheFlam on Apr 12, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Time for ancient history
Ok, now to report some ancient Cardinal history. I recall when Julian Javier became the Cardinal shortstop. I have no stats to report, but it seems like he made an error a day for a while, before becoming an important part of Championship teams. Let’s give the man a chance. Also, the same applies to Colby with lefties. He hit them in the minors. The fewer chances he gets against them in the majors, the worse he will get. He has the chance to be a minor star, and should not be platooned.
by Remember Kenny B on Apr 12, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
do you mean 2B?
i honestly don’t remember javier ever playing SS.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Javier
I guess it was second, but I am not sure. I just remember my sister and me cringing when Harry said the ball was hit to him.
by Remember Kenny B on Apr 12, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
well, i suppose we could look it up
would’ve had to be before maxville’s time
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Javier
I guess it was 2nd and it was 1960. I suspect most of his errors were early in the year, because later on my sister and I were b oth big fans of Javier.
by Remember Kenny B on Apr 12, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
He started exactly behind the bag where he should be
Look at the ESPN Axis on it on SC, it’s not possible for him to have been in a better position to take a throw from 3B on a possible double play. That’s how they coach it.
It was the full 100% on Freese to make the horrible throw.
Not afraid to nitpick
I watched the whole thing on Axis
and he’s NOT behind the bag towards LF. He’s directly behind the bag towards right field, which is NOT the proper way to approach the base to turn two. You approach from a step towards LF, that way if the throw is behind the bag you can still catch it and make an out, but if it’s on the bag or towards 1B, you can recover while going towards the base you’re throwing to.
it’s not possible for him to have been in a better position to take a throw from 3B on a possible double play.
Simply untrue — if this were the case, he would have been able to adjust to the bad throw and still get the out at second.
We can quibble on this all you want, but I know how it’s taught and that’s not what Lopez did. He was also in poor position to catch the throw as well. Was it a bad throw? Yes, could it have been salvaged for an out? Absolutely, and it should have been.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
That is exactly how it's taught!
and he’s NOT behind the bag towards LF. He’s directly behind the bag towards right field, which is NOT the proper way to approach the base to turn two. You approach from a step towards LF, that way if the throw is behind the bag you can still catch it and make an out, but if it’s on the bag or towards 1B, you can recover while going towards the base you’re throwing to.
You could not have watched the Axis thing then because that is what he did. He was on the LF side of the bag and was taking his momentum towards 1B……..exactly how you are supposed to do it on a double play.
Freese didn’t just make a bad throw, he made a HORRIBLE throw. He didn’t just miss 4 feet behind the bag, he missed in the dirt too.
Not afraid to nitpick
I'm not going to argue with you, because you always take a position and stick with it.
Even in the presence of a preponderance of evidence to the contrary.
I know what I saw, and it wasn’t correct.
I’m not absolving Freese — as I said above, his best play was probably to tag the lead runner and make sure of an out. Just saying that Lopez should have been able to field the ball and get an out or AT THE VERY LEAST keep the run from scoring. He did neither.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Preponderance of the evidence
Felipe circling the bag
Felipe when Freese is about to throw the ball
So he circles around the bag and is a step to the LF side and a step behind the bag closer to CF, with his momentum taking him across the bag so he doesn’t get cleted and also towards 1B ……..AKA the best position you can be in to come across the bag to turn two.
Not afraid to nitpick
i missed the play
but that must’ve been one hell of a bad throw. lopex looks prepared to make an adjustment.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
only thing I see
that he could have done is wait for the throw to start across the bag. That bottom pic shows him in a pretty good position.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Right...
and then he starts moving across the bag and into the runner. Look at his weight in the second picture — he’s already leaning, meaning that any throw behind him is going to be nearly impossible to adjust to. He was asking to be led into the runner with the throw, which is wrong.
He’s coming up behind the bag and running through the bag, like a shortstop would do.
I don’t think the stills to it justice, because they don’t show his motion. Any throw behind him was destined for CF, and that shouldn’t be the case.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Holy irony Batman!
Just randomly juxtaposing stuff:
I’m not going to argue with you, because you always take a position and stick with it. Even in the presence of a preponderance of evidence to the contrary.
and he’s NOT behind the bag towards LF. He’s directly behind the bag towards right field, which is NOT the proper way to approach the base to turn two. You approach from a step towards LF, that way if the throw is behind the bag you can still catch it and make an out, but if it’s on the bag or towards 1B, you can recover while going towards the base you’re throwing to.
If the view of Lopez circling to come from the LF/CF side of the bag while Freese is about to throw the ball isn’t gonna do it, nothing is. That’s almost impressive.
Not afraid to nitpick
Yup...circling
he should be coming straight towards the bag, not moving towards first base.
Juxtapose all you want, the video proves my position pretty well. If he’s so well balanced, then how did a throw just 2 feet to the left of the bag get by him? Is he 90 years old?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
So many questions
So he’s supposed to come from 1 step to the LF side of the bag towards the base, but not be moving towards 1st base? How are you supposed to get from the 2B position to the position 1 step to the LF side of the bag without circling? It’s his job to prevent the worst throw Freese could possibly make……and not be in the best position to turn two on the 99% chance Freese makes a catchable throw?
Not afraid to nitpick
This is the last post I'm making on the subject.
- Do you even notice where Braun is on your snapshots? HE’S NEARLY TO FIRST BASE AND THE BALL ISN’T OUT OF FREESE’S HAND. So…
- ….there’s no shot at a double play. None. They should be playing for one out and making sure the ball doesn’t get away. Which means that Lopez should be playing it more like a first baseman instead of a keystone trying to make the turn.
- Both players should have known that doubling up Braun on this play was probably not going to happen. He’s a very fast runner and the ball was chopped to Freese. So Freese could have fielded and tagged out the lead runner or set his feet and made a good throw to second. Lopez could have stretched like a first baseman to get the ball or at least hopped off the bag to ensure that it didn’t get away. Bases loaded and one with no run scored is way better than 1st & 3rd with one out and a run in.
- If they both realize that they could have played for one out. Freese made a bad decision. Lopez made a bad decision which left him out of position to corral an errant throw. Which is what should have happened.
I’m not about to break down the percentage of blame that each guy should have to take for this play. Freese made a poor decision and a poor throw, undeniably. But after watching it multiple times, it’s pretty obvious that Felipe could have set up so that he could adjust to a bad throw. First rule of defense: Time, score, situation. Keeping them out of a big inning there is key and making sure of one out is the best way to do that.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
That's not Braun
That’s the first base coach
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait a minute...
THAT’S THE BIG SHOW’S MUSIC!!!
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
My mistake...
he is right outside the frame on the right after checking the video of the play, doubling him would have been pretty difficult even with a perfect throw from Freese.
My point still stands. Play for one out. Get the out. Don’t allow an unearned run.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Don't worry I'm done too
I’m not going to argue with you, because you always take a position and stick with it, even in the presence of a preponderance of evidence to the contrary.
Not afraid to nitpick
Just admit it
We both have a point here. My point is that Lopez could and should have made sure of one out. That’s how I’ve always been coached — make sure of one, two is just icing on the cake, but none is a disaster, and none followed by allowing a run to score on the error is a huge disaster.
They both played it wrong, it’s just easier to make a goat out of the guy making the throw.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't see it at all
Lopez put himself in textbook position to turn two and yes, they did have a reasonable if not great chance to do that. Freese made the worst possible throw he could make aside from leading Lopez into a sliding runner. Again, he didn’t just miss 4 feet in the wrong direction, he missed horribly low too. That’s not what Lopez is there to prevent. He could have stopped the ball yes, but he was doing what he was supposed to be doing and Freese is the one who screwed up. It wasn’t a “team error” it was Freese making a godawful throw and then Lopez not making a really good play to catch it.
Aside from that, I still don’t even know what it is that you want him to do seeing as how he is in fact “behind the bag (a step or so towards LF) and then comes through the bag during the throw.” In fact I don’t know how he could be in more of the position that you described he should be in.
He was not “on top of the bag to start with.”
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Apr 12, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think if Freese makes a good throw on the run
They probably get Braun at first. He’s quick, but he’s not THAT quick. And the ball was chopped, but Freese came in and got the short hop, which sped the play up a bit.
If you believe Wikipedia, Braun can make it from home to first in 4.2 seconds at his absolute fastest. I timed contact-to-Freese’s-glove at 1.4 seconds. A good feed and a quick turn could definitely have a shot at Braun at first.
I think that Freese knew he didn’t have much time and tried to force a quick throw to end the inning and the scoring threat. Definitely a bad decision. On the other hand, I don’t agree that they had no chance at Braun at first.
Ok
Even by that rationale, you should make sure you at least get one out. Freese didn’t do that. Neither did Lopez.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I disagree about Lopez
He looked in position to me, and seems to have done everything he could to stop the throw from getting past him.
But yes, the decision by Freese to try to force a double play was definitely an errant one — he pressed, and it backfired on him. I don’t think anyone disagrees on that fact.
not really a response to you
just my take on the deal in general
i watched the play several times. it was a bad throw AND floppy was well positioned. despite the bad throw, floppy should have still made the play. he even got a glove on it, while his foot was on the bag. he just didn’t catch. he did hit it with his glove and that’s why it trickled toward center instead of sailing into right
fail all around, but floppy should have been able to catch the ball
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
yes
Freese rushed a throw from a short hop, throwing on the run, across his body, off the wrong foot. Perfect conditions for a bad throw, and it was a pretty bad throw. It’d be nice to see the screencap of exactly how far away the ball was from 2nd, b/c as I saw it, it would have taken a pretty insane play by Lopez even to get the force.
I think the DP was still in order as the ball was leaving Freese’s hand.
is that weeks running to second?
then braun was nowhere near first, and a double play was definitely in order, like more than 80% chance i’d think.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
this is about the best i could do
but like i said above, floppy gets his glove on the ball with his foot still on the bag. bad throw, yes. catchable throw, also
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
wow
like i said, i didn’t see the play, but now i see what a horrible throw it really was. as uecker might say, just missed his spot by 7 or 8 feet.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
there should be a permanent fanpost
where people can go to duke it out one-on-one (like challenging the other to a duel)
/not totally serious
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
he actually looks decent now.
maybe it was the lighting.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
No, he still looks scary.
He must have played football while in Pittsburgh too :P
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
you be da judge
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't you mean
YO MY MAN CJ BEEN ON TODAY??/ LETS DO THIS
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
no
but here’s his tweet from opening day
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
You're going to have to post it.
My work no likey Twitter.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
we should revolt
ok ok ok im set..NOW ITS THE REAL OPENING DAY! I HAVE MY CARDS SOX, CARDS UNDERWEAR, MOUTHPIECE, AND SLIPPERS! THIS CANT GET ANY BETTER! lol 6:31 AM Apr 5th via web
cjbeatty44
CJ BEATTY
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
heh. that is awesome.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Is this real or it just a Meme Gone Wild?
Hey that would make a funny but impossibly obscure t-shirt … Memes Gone Wild … heh, heh, heh
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Apr 12, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
he's a real player in our system
there may be more Talk like CJ Beatty days on VEB, at this rate….
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I know that ...
… but are those his actual Tweets?
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Apr 12, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
oh yes.
I don’t mess around with twitter links.
this is typical:
Today give 100% with everything you do today……..*****WAIT FORGET ABOUT THAT, GIVE 110% THATS IS WAAAAAY BETTER DONT YOU THINK?***** 3:29 AM Apr 3rd via web
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
OMG THAT IS SOOOOO GOLDEN!!!!!!!!!!
I could get used to this.
by QuadCitiesCardsFan on Apr 12, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
it's freeing
like going commando
wait i’ve said too much
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
That sauce is the boss!
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
Don't take this the wrong way...
But his verbiage seems…um…slightly un-masculine…
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
That's awfully judgemental based on one tweet. Over the internet
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Series of tweets.
Research it and then get back to me.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I'm very familiar with CJ's work. In fact, VEB's Type-Like-CJ-Beatty-Day was my idea
I just don’t like the fact that you’re suggesting that a player is gay based on the way they type.
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Bleh... fuck it, I'm sorry everyone
I’ll drop it
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
No, no, not homosexual.
Sorry if it came across that way. I was just saying that it didn’t have a very masculine tone to it.
I’m re-reading and seeing how it could’ve been interpreted differently. Apologies.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
it's the kids today
they’re all like that. it’s a product of the texting generation.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
should you not be out ghostriding your whip?
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he's going to see the leprechaun
and serenade him with his special leprechaun flute.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Memes Gone Wild
new VEB day t-shirt?
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
or tagline
or is/was the search for a tagline a meme in itself? i’m confused…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I'm glad you chose that picture
because in the light of dramatic back-to-back homers in the 9th and the ensuing walk-off, I had completely forgotten about it. That’s a shame too because it was one hell of a catch.
Looks like Mather is a competent fielder after all. What’s the book on him defensively? I always thought he was just ‘meh’ but he look brilliant on that play.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
IIRC, he broke in on the ball
and then had to bust his ass to get back to make that catch.
Great catch though.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't remember him breaking on first
but it appeared he was slow to react before kicking it in high gear. Still, it was an amazing catch that saved two runs.
Hey Ump!
E-Saver vs. Astros
Kick off the 2010 season with half price tickets! Purchase any available seat, including all-inclusive tickets, to see the Cards host the Astros on April 14 & 15 for 50% OFF!
Coupon Code: ESAVER
- Offer does not include Cardinals Club, Commissioner’s Box, Landings or Standing Room.
i thought we were talking about getting good relievers?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Apr 12, 2010 11:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
3.7 FIP with upside...
non-arm related injury… $10 million contract for 2010… I think Hamilton OR a lower-level prospect for Wood AND $5-7 million could get it done.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
i thought he was taking larue's spot next year?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Better yet
Acquire Frank Francisco. 10+ K/9, throws 97-98 with a good slider.
Just demoted from the closer role for Texas (because they got their head of their ass and put Feliz in the closers role — my fantasy team thanks you Ron Washington, the nose candy shipment is on the way!!!)
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Brutal...
Francisco would be more expensive. I think it would take DJ… but we might get compensation for him.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
Thing is
I think we could probably sign him to an extension almost immediately, and probably for less than Brandon Lyon got from the Astros last year. I’m thinking something like 3Y$12M or 4Y$14M. Considering that I consider Jones to have more trade value than value to the club, I’d be ok with trading him at this point. I don’t think he’s ever going to be the 20-20 threat with great corner OF defense that we all thought he was going to be.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I could handle trading DJ,
as I feel he is no longer a good fit for our club in the future, his trade value may be as high as it ever will be, and there are still questions if he he will ever live up to his potential. I think I could stomach trading DJ for Francisco.
by stxcardsfan on Apr 12, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
me neither
he’s got that “proven closer” tag and he’s pretty good. I don’t think Jones is that much of a prospect really. I think it probably takes Jones plus one other decent prospect/mlb player to get it done, and I don’t really know that we’ve got anything they’d want. Maybe Descalso, if Kinsler is eventually moved to 3B? I dunno.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
just the thought of trading FOR relievers is tough to stomach
but i’d be willing to pop some tums for heath bell.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think if we're in the hunt around the deadline
I could stomach trading Allen Craig plus a lower level prospect for Bell. I think that’d be a fair deal (I’d certainly give up Jones for Bell but I think he’s less valuable, at least at present). 5.5 years of a potentially above-average corner outfielder is a lot to give up but I think we’re set up as a “win now” team in the next two years, and Bell’s under contract for that period. I wouldn’t be aversed to throwing him another year on top of that, to make the trade more of a medium-term gain.
I do kinda worry that Bell might cost something like Craig plus Sanchez, though, and in that situation I think I’d rather just promote Sanchez and see what happens.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 13, 2010 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions
It's just temporary
Doubt the Rangers are looking to ship Francisco out:
"He’s our closer until I get Frankie back there,‘’ Rangers manager Ron Washington said before Sunday’s series finale against Seattle. ``Frankie will be the closer of the Texas Rangers. We’re just giving him a chance to get himself together.’’
What happened to CJ Wilson?
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
It'd be hilarious if
the Cards traded for Wood, and Dunc turned him back into an effective starter. What if he, Carp, Waino, and Penny made up a 2010 WS rotation for us? All Cubs fans would probably shit a brick and Wrigley would explode.
Ohh what a dream.
and then the cubs resign wood and it all goes to hell
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah, but they could have him after he helped us win the WS.
Where would they play in 2011 though? Wrigley would be reduced to rubble. Also, we all know the moment Wood put back on the Cubs uni, his arm would fall off.
by stxcardsfan on Apr 12, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
thus the "it all goes to hell"
i meant for the cubs
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Nah
The Brewers sign him to a 4-year $60 million deal and he makes 5 starts total for them
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
The Wood goes down on the eve of making a start in game 7 of the NLCS against the Cubs
and Rich Hill comes off the bench to throw a perfect game.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
where's prior in all this - seattle?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
check out this *
While Spinning.
How much were yours? 34 dollars. You know you got a pay raise... right?
yeah?
I think quite a few VEBers are trying to get him over to the dark side. he could be our greatest apprentice.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, what?
Melissa // March 17, 2010 at 1:27 am | Reply
Also, were you in the hotel room with Aaron Miles when he wrestled a robber to the ground?
morganensberg // March 17, 2010 at 11:03 am | Reply
We were "hog tied" in the room next door.
Morgan
/probably nexdef’d, but I don’t remember that part.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Apr 12, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying
you do not know the story of aaron miles wrestling a gun away from a robber when he was in the minors? It’s where he got his grit.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
He bit the guy too.
A gritty, gritty bite.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought
the guy bit him and he has a scar from it on his back. Been too long since I read the story.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Money quote vis a vis sabermetrics:
Position is vital in baseball. The key is to align your fielders according to the spray chart. A Spray Chart is a sheet that marks down every location of a ball hit in play or caught foul.
I would guess that if you talked to most players, they are going to say something similar with regard to positioning, yet our best defensive metric, UZR, doesn’t adjust for positioning (mainly because it would nearly be an exercise in futility considering the amount of imperfect information that would be involved, the only way I can see doing it is to develop a “factor constant” based on certain data and apply it to UZR uniformly to adjust for error. This has it’s own statistical issues, however).
Obviously, the more plays that are recorded, the less “positioning error” we’re going to have, but I think that maybe we don’t take into account how big of a function positioning is in determining good defense and how big an effect that could have on UZR’s “range”.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Definitely
And once again driving home the point that UZR does not equal actual defensive runs saved…..especially for the purposes of yearly WAR.
Not afraid to nitpick
Agreed
Over a three year period, I would tend to swing the other way, since I think that a ton of data really pushes down the play-by-play error that isn’t being adjusted for.
But it’s clear that it’s not a good tool year-to-year, and as such, shouldn’t be used to value players on a yearly basis.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Except that UZR is a measure of the results,
not the inputs. Whether a player makes x number of plays because he is insanely fast or because his positioning is good is not the issue at hand. It does measure the defensive contribution of that player, it just doesn’t measure how he contributed that number.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Exactly?
So if whoever is in charge of defensive positioning (players are adjusted mostly by coaching) puts somebody out of position and a ball drops, that’s not that player’s credit/debit and vice versa for the right positioning.
Not afraid to nitpick
UZR does not equal actual defensive runs saved
Is different from
So if whoever is in charge of defensive positioning (players are adjusted mostly by coaching) puts somebody out of position and a ball drops, that’s not that player’s credit/debit and vice versa for the right positioning.
UZR does equal runs saved, but isn’t runs saved by a player’s contribution alone: it has error included because it includes luck and fielding.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
luck and positioning*
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
It doesnt equal an individual player's actual defensive talent.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Or even performance in a given season
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if a +5 defender range/actions/etc who is put out of position could perform at at least a 0 UZR in a season…….when he in fact actually saved 5 runs that an average defender who was put out of position would not have.
Not afraid to nitpick
Um, that's pretty much what he said
We shouldn’t be using this for a yearly WAR calculation because it doesn’t accurately measure the player’s defensive talent level pertaining to runs saved.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Which is dumb.
RAR also doesn’t measure the amount of runs a player creates through his offense or pitching, however to throw it out for a small amount of error is an overreaction.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
by hazel on Apr 12, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who said anything about throwing it out?
You’re jumping to conclusions. We’re saying it shouldn’t be used to determine how many wins a player is worth on defense over a given season, because it has too much error with less than 2000 innings to determine runs saved or wins valued with any level of precision.
We should use it, it’s the best defensive metric we have. But as a guide, not a statement of fact. I’ve been a stickler on this point for a very long time.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
it doesn’t accurately measure the player’s defensive talent level pertaining to runs saved.
My view is simply that your standard of “accuracy” is unrealistic and your definition of player worth on defense is flawed: By UZR the player is actually “worth” those amounts, the error is in how well that is related to his talent level because luck and positioning are different from talent.
I'm one of those "I don't care how you killed the cow; just serve me a great steak" guys. If the results are logical and easy to understand, I'm pouring some A1 sauce on that formula and eating it. UZR qualifies. -Bill Simmons
Ok
No he’s not worth those amounts. He, whoever is doing his positioning, and luck are worth those amounts. You just said above that it doesn’t measure player talent, yet the WAR statistic attributes all of those runs to the player. Nothing is said about his positioning.
Per MGL, UZR is measuring UZR, nothing else.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
That's kind of semantics, though
you could equally say that a pitcher’s FIP WAR isn’t “worth” the amount of value that it attributes to him, because it’s his performance + luck (did he give up that extra flyball in a bandbox or in a cavern? Did he pitch in front of unusually harsh or lenient strike-calling umpires this year?) + other external factors (quality of opposition faced, the game tactics of his pitching coach and the pitch selection of his coach & catcher (which could be analogous to the positioning aspect of fielding), etc etc).
At some point you have to just say that it’s as accurate a measure of the player’s worth that we can make with the information at hand, and that to a greater or lesser degree there is an element of error, plus the influence of non-talent/performance-related factors that impact upon that measure. It may just be that the error/external factors in UZR are bigger than they are in wOBA or FIP.
And FWIW I more or less share a lot of your misgivings on UZR and small samples.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 13, 2010 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions
That's true about FIP
The difference, imo, is that you have some idea of the luck involved in FIP by looking at batted ball data (i.e. how many line drives the pitcher is giving up). It’s not perfect, but you can make some statistically valid assumptions about it and glean some information on whether the FIP is over or under valued for that particular pitcher.
There’s literally no measurement tool or information available to adjust for positioning. If guys are being repositioned for every hitter, and sometimes pitch to pitch, you have to admit that’s going to make a huge amount of difference in what balls they can get to.
Let’s take an extreme example: If Tim Lincecum is throwing to Jack Cust over 2000 AB’s, his FIP for those AB’s is probably going to be pretty similar. He’s going to strike him out a lot and Cust is probably going to hit a pretty fair number of homers and draw a fair number of walks. Now, let’s say your defense is defending David Ortiz for 2000 AB’s with Dice-K on the mound. You’ve shifted your defense around the the second base side of the infield because Papi is a dead pull hitter. Let’s assume that he hits an equal number of balls to each of the “bins” that UZR uses. The UZR is going to be all pretty mucked up for every position on the field, because UZR doesn’t have the ability to adjust to where the defensive player is playing and then estimate the range of balls he should get to. It’s a static system.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
My standard of accuracy is "unrealistic"?
Your standard of accuracy is apparently “unmeasurable error doesn’t count”. Which is horribly unscientific for any statistical measure.
Most WAR systems use wOBA to account for the offensive side of the equation, and it’s far more precise at measuring real production that UZR can ever probably be. That’s not knocking UZR, it does the best it can with the limitations that it has, but to say that it’s as precise as wOBA is for offense is a flat out lie.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
And UZR has measurement error...
A guy with a +5 UZR could easily have actually been a -10 defender (well not easily, but it could happen).
by vivaelpujols on Apr 13, 2010 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
That's probably pretty rare, though, my main gripe is within two standard deviations.
I would guess that you could cover 95% of the error by having an error bar of +/- 5 runs for every player, which doesn’t seem like a lot, but when the difference between the very best and very worst defenders is about 60 runs, a 10 run error range is HUGE.
I don’t see how that’s not significant or how my standard of accuracy is unrealistic, do you?
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
How about
we use it for all players but we are given a margin of error number or confidence level?
vr, Xei
That would be fine
I’ve brought this up before. But, in practice, this isn’t what happens.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I definitely agree fourstick
I’ve heard from more than one source that apparently the Phillies staff are supposed to be very high on this (in terms of having positional plans for individual hitters). I sometimes wonder if that’s partly why Rollins and Utley seem to post absurd UZRs year-on-year (as well as being pretty good).
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The fact that certain teams are probably better at this than others
is also kinda troubling, don’t you think? I mean, if the Angels are one of the best teams in baseball in terms of position (just an example, no way of actually knowing this), then maybe Chone Figgins isn’t worth 18 runs at 3B and is worth only 7-8 runs. That would make him a 4 WAR player and not a 5 WAR player. Pretty significant difference realistically.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Yep
but it’s also (I guess) a potential inefficiency that some teams could exploit better than others. Even if the difference between the teams with the best defensive gameplan and the worst is only, say, 20-odd runs per year, that’s still a couple of wins. Potentially crucial.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 13, 2010 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely
It would be a huge advantage to the teams that can do this. That said, empirically measuring how many wins per season your defense is worth is awfully difficult. It’s kind of a “gut check” type of thing.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
UZR has its flaws
and even the author knows it. But it is probably the best that is out there now. In the near future when we have something like “Field f/x” then we can hopefully measure the things you mentioned along with various others that need to be taken into account. Nonetheless, UZR does have added value and it is better to use it than to not use it – by a long shot. My backtesting simulations have shown that using UZR as opposed to not using it has a significant impact upon ROI.
vr, Xei
Yes it's the best we have
And it’s better to use it than to not use it, but the point is that there are things like Ben Zobrist’s UZR/WAR for 2009 that you just can’t take at face value because of those flaws.
Not afraid to nitpick
As I said -- it's the best we have
but that there are certain situations where it shouldn’t be used as a precise tool, with yearly valuations of player talent level being one of those. I agree that when we have something that can measure the flight of balls in play better this is bound to get more precise.
Still, even having vectored balls in play doesn’t solve the positioning issue. You can have precision data on the ball itself, but with no data as to why a fielder was positioned where, you’re still going to be guessing if he was in the right position or not.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
it's pretty funny that the only game the Brewers could win from us
is one in which our starter had a near terrible start, 2 errors that gave up runs, and our bullpen giving up a home run at the very end of the game.
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 12:26 PM EDT reply actions
so, matt holliday
does he only hit HRs to straight away CF?
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I won't complain
if he hits 27+ more of them this season.
by stxcardsfan on Apr 12, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Very funny.
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think I'm your only fan today
rec
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
'preche
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
we have lineup!!!
#stlcards lineup Schu 4 Lud 9 Pujols 3 Holliday 7 Molina 2 Rasmus 8 Freese 5 Ryan 6 Wainwright 1 #cardinals half a minute ago via Tweetie
per Goold
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i was right on the molina thing
very surprised skip didn’t get kicked out of the leadoff spot though. he’s an almost guaranteed 0-3 to start off the day.
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 12, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Schu leadoff vs. LHP
wat
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Statistically though...
Skippy is 4 for 13 off of Wandy.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
imagine the riot
no Skip…
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
or as they say
the hotmaker
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
knowing that Albert has a .161 batting average against Wandy
makes me a little ill.
is 31 PAs a small sample size?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it shore is, y2s
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Holliday hits .316 and has 2 HR and 3 RBI against Wandy.
Does that cancel out?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
until last night
Albert was hitless against Hoffman.
(hopefully that’s the 7up your belly needed)
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
is that Mather's alter ego, Supermather?
looks like he can fly!
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 1:08 PM EDT reply actions
no that's Bombs.
Bombsquad, if you want to be formal.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
well, bombs can fly
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
we have an outfielder in the system named Aaron Luna?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i thought he was more of a jack-of-all-trades type
well, like everyone else, i guess
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah, funny thing about 21st century Cardinals baseball
I have no clue what position players actually play.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
He was a middle infielder
and has a pretty good bat (some power, some walks, decent contact hitter). Problem is, he wasn’t really a good fit defensively at 2B or SS and it was pretty much universally agreed that he couldn’t make it to mlb in the MIF, so he got moved out into corner outfield last year. Somewhat unsurprisingly, his bat doesn’t play nearly as well out there.
I quite like him but realistically he’s not much of a prospect.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 12, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
31.3%
Carpenter’s FB/HR ratio. So on top of a really small sample size to the 2010 season, he has been rather unlucky so far as the HR ball goes.
vr, Xei
mmmm
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
grounds crew in tuxes
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
really glad they left the arch in there.
gives it a little something extra
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
yes. it's brilliant, I love that.
I really really really really hope they also kept the little stairs when they get off the Chevys. for the love of gob.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Sorry if this was posted already...
But here is some hard evidence of Colby selling it.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
FIELDER SMAAAAASH!
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Apr 12, 2010 1:40 PM EDT reply actions 16 recs
So much win.
The man-boob jiggling on the bench smash is epic.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Wolf trying to act like nothing's happening
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. Classic.
He’s almost blocking it w/his hand.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
now we need... what... a large exploding pastry?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
with a witty opening line
something like “Yeah Prince, all they’ve got for the buffet is meat.”
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Apr 12, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder how many frames it is...
a little hand-drawn animation… hmm.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
oh hey, it's only 34 frames.
hmmmmm!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
This has to become a game thread staple.
“Hey Prince…the concession stand closes before extra innings.”
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Funny story about Boca burgers...
I ate them for a year in college at the dining hall because I thought Boca just meant that they were larger burgers. Because “boca” in Spanish is mouth.
Little did I know, I was consuming vegetarian cuisine.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
major meat fail
i was a vegetarian for two years. my float trips were all about wet half cooked boca burgers. and potatoes.
i watched this in slow motion on my DVR over and over and couldn't stop laughing.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
i did too
i called my wife in from the other room, and her response was:
what’s wrong with him? Wow he’s kinda fat.
when his right leg comes up
looks like he’s wearing those big clown shoes – what the hell is that?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
that's a bat head
it’s the guy in the hole swinging it around
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
aha
now i see. so he doesn’t wear clown shoes?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
cannot confirm nor deny.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
too good
did he just discover that someone took the last cookie from the dugout jar?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
intriguinnng.
I’ve never done exploding food before, I’m tempted to try this.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
what an idiot
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
that is some seriously funny shit
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
extremely rec'd
This gif actually leaves out what I thought was the funniest part, where he picked up the bat and was ready to actually do some damage to something that wasn’t padded………and then thought the better of it and was barely able to set the bat down very gently. I was hoping he was going to do a full Zambrano, but what he did was almost better because it’s so ridiculous looking.
We are going to be giggling about this for the rest of the year….
the bat caressing was rather touching.
like “oh, not you, baby. never you.”
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
he was so close to pulling the trigger
I was mentally egging him on…..c’mon Prince, just one little swing of the bat….c’mon, did you hear what that cooler had to say about you? Just a little whack, so satisfying….
lol!
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Only 6 more rounds to go in the VEB Corporate Sponsored Sell-Out Draft!
Huzzah!
Post-All Star Break, here we come!!
P.S. The “extended” draft started on March 29 and there are 18 teams.
Carry on.
I find I'm picking once every 2 days.
Is that normal?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I would just like to say....
I hate Day Baseball…..
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
really?
it gets me through the day at work. but i guess if you don’t have the kind of job where you can watch the game it would suck.
"Did you just grow a mustache?"
"While SPINNING."
This....I can listen if I want to,
but I can’t get myself to do that on opening day. On a side note, I would like to thank the inventor of the DVR.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I'm 15 feet from a window and I can't get radio reception.
There’s so many frequencies floating around above me.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
weekend days is not so bad, but then you’re stuck inside for the day. weekday day games are lame.
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, f it
i wouldn’t be able to watch tonight until after work either way, but f day baseball por lo general
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
so does anyone know how to do the proxy thing that flim does?
i really don’t feel like going to a sports bar in fenton…
its super easy
i guess i should read his fanpost
i rarely partake in veb anymore, even though my uid is so low, or whatver
Anybody like Star Wars AND Bacon?!
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Apr 12, 2010 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It was really never gone cow.....
it’s been here the whole time.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
This should be the exploding food in the Fielder video
someone more computer savvy than I… Get it done! Oh, and it should be shooting laser beams before Fielder smashes it.
His eyes could shoot laser beams
while he mashes a bacon cheeseburger.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Simulation of Today's game
Favorite.
Simulator: STL 61.13%
Vegas Opening Line: STL 68.15% (line has moved down)
Most likely final score (Top 10)
1. STL 2-1
2. STL 3-2
3. STL 1-0
4. HOU 2-1
5. STL 4-3
6. HOU 2-0
7. STL 3-2
8. STL 3-1
9. HOU 1-0
10. STL 3-0
.
.
.
25. HOU 5-2
50. HOU 7-3
75. STL 8-5
100. STL 9-8
I don't know how to classify this...
Jinx?
Informational?
Seattle?
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
it's Vegas tempting the GOB
it’s okay. it stays in Vegas.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
my guess is 19
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the neverending game "classics" is on
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
"Update" on LaRue per D. Goold
Catcher Jason LaRue strained his hamstring during Sunday night’s game in Milwaukee and he will not be available for today’s home opener at Busch Stadium, manager Tony La Russa said. The St. Louis Cardinals’ backup catcher’s availability is uncertain for this series against the Houston Astros and for the home stand.
"He’s sore," La Russa said. "We won’t have a real good read on it until Wednesday. There’s tenderness there."
The Cardinals will take advantage of tomorrow’s off day and not require any players to come to the ballpark. (They are welcome to voluntarily work out at the facilities, of course.) LaRue will be re-evaluated on Tuesday, La Russa said. That will help determine whether he’ll miss enough time to necessitate a move to the disabled list.
For today, Nick Stavinoha will be the emergency catcher.
braintwin.
For today, Nick Stavinoha will be the emergency catcher.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
i found that amusing
poor stav can’t even get called today’s backup – still the emergency.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
If Yadi goes down, it is an emergency.
Even when LaRue is healthy.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Long story short...
Gags will be up here for Thursday’s game…methinks.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Leach has both lineups
Cardinals
1. Schumaker 2B
2. Ludwick RF
3. Pujols 1B
4. Holliday LF
5. Molina C
6. Rasmus CF
7. Freese 3B
8. Ryan SS
9. Wainwright P
Astros
1. Bourn CF
2. Manzella SS
3. Feliz 3B
4. Lee LF
5. Blum 1B
6. Pence RF
7. Matsui 2B
8. Quintero C
9. Rodriguez P
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Geoff Blum always hits the Cardinals well.
As does Pence, but don’t get me started on his goofiness.
I’m looking forward to Oquendo waving runners home on Bourn all day.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
pedro feliz in the 3-spot
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
ROFLCOPTER
"There's a new sheriff in town." - Brendan Ryan
by jd is legend on Apr 12, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Holy mother...
that is one outrageously bad lineup. Bourn-Manzella-Feliz at the top? Blum 5th? Rodriguez might be the third best hitter.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
Not liking Freese-Ryan-Skip
playing together… Floppy is so far advanced offensively, and he hasn’t appeared to be a huge defensive liability either.
I’m on the Floppy every day and every night bandwagon. Who’s with me??
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
you crack me up
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Sorry for all the negativity last night...
My cabinet wouldn’t shut so I committed myself to finishing off everything with less than two inches left.
Yuck.
Franklin !#@$!&*%#
I wanna see this Manzella kid. on D.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Is Gameday Audio worth the money?
When a reporter asked Gaylord Perry's 5-year-old daughter if her father threw a spitball, she replied, "It's a hard slider."
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 12, 2010 2:16 PM EDT reply actions
toadonalump.com is free, and has most Cards games.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
well it doesnt matter
i found the link to the cardinals nation thing on here… i figured that if i was going to pay for the audio i might as well get the ticket voucher as well.
When a reporter asked Gaylord Perry's 5-year-old daughter if her father threw a spitball, she replied, "It's a hard slider."
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 12, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don't know....
I know it plays off of a wmp add on.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Ughhh
I’m in New Orleans, so though I can watch the Opening Day telecast on TV, I have to watch it through Fox Sports Houston.
No emphasis on the festivities, I bet.
I dunno. it's funny. "We just can't. Seem. To clinch. [grrrghh]"
- Brendan Ryan
on the unclench.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
the snowcone!
LaRue sounds really well-spoken. well, not quite that, it’s like he knows his English teacher is watching.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
"Leave that sucker in, he's dealin', man. He's dealin'."
- LaRue
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
he's never watched it. huh
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Bernie cracks me up
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Boog's chamboarding is hilarious.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and a little discomforting to watch....
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
he needed a towel.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
so, now that i have purchased gameday audio....
will the opening festivities be carried? does anybody know?
When a reporter asked Gaylord Perry's 5-year-old daughter if her father threw a spitball, she replied, "It's a hard slider."
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 12, 2010 2:46 PM EDT reply actions
so im listening to the cubs and brewers in the meantime
i have nothing personally against Ron Santo… but he is damn terrible
When a reporter asked Gaylord Perry's 5-year-old daughter if her father threw a spitball, she replied, "It's a hard slider."
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 12, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a Cub thing, really
He’s not a good announcer, but that’s not the point.
Personally I love his groans and yells. Yesterday when Soriano screwed up was great.
i love when soriano disgusts santo
it’s palpable. listening to him last year when sori dropped a fly. the other guy says, “pop fly to left. soriano…wait, did he drop it?” and ron says, “awww, yes he did…awwwwwwww”
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the ron santo drinking game is dangerous
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
yeah, i'm watching online
zaun is 0-15 on season.
btw, our favorite milk carton guy got his first big league hit last night, and it was kinda crucial too, so there’s always that to take away positive from last night.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
so is the pre-game stuff going to be only for those watching in person or on tv?
do we get it online?
When a reporter asked Gaylord Perry's 5-year-old daughter if her father threw a spitball, she replied, "It's a hard slider."
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 12, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
i have mlb.tv
it generally starts about five minutes before first pitch, unfortunately.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
dang it
When a reporter asked Gaylord Perry's 5-year-old daughter if her father threw a spitball, she replied, "It's a hard slider."
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 12, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
and it ends immediately after the game
no post-game stuff, ever
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
yeah it's weird
he got robbed a couple of times before that
I swore he’d already gotten one
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
yeah, he had some good ab's in his start
man, he got robbed/unlucky quite a bit in spring training
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
pre-game a-comin'!
please tell me we have a game thread……
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and i think they are only 29th ranked
one team worse, and i believe it was the white sox
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
dude. FSM is going all... orchestral.
wut.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
it might be file
it’s Waino talking about his ring fetish
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
hey everyone, it's Skip.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
and Skip's pecs.
if you’re into that.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
K Mac in the pen
You thik we can expect some Carlos Marmol type behavior from Mac because of frustration over not making the position he wanted….similar to when Marmol didnt get the closer job and was replaced by Kevin Gregg..He was disgruntled and it effected his job he was given
Where in the hell is Felix Jose and Bob Tewksbury when you need 'em?
by Lankford 4 President on Apr 12, 2010 3:03 PM EDT reply actions
I see how it could affect his mental preparation.
But physically and mechanically he should have no let-down.
by Ghostrider520 on Apr 12, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
KMac is rather... steady.
not to mention, these St. Louis guys have been likewise brainwashed into the Tony La Russa way. like most of us.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
still, it's gotta be tough
this is his livelihood, and that seriously affects his earning potential
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
true
but he is one of the player representatives
he knows he just has to stay on, then put the pedal to the metal come next negotiation….
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
still, though, as a crappy starter he'd make way more
than as an above-average reliever. and potentially gobs more, if he has one good year at the right time. i keep thinking of what the brewers are paying suppan…and then i laugh aloud.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I don't buy this kind of reasoning
What evidence is there to suggest that any of Marmol’s performance last year had to do with him being frustrated by his role in the bullpen? This strikes me as making up imaginary cause-and-effect. I’m not even entirely clear on how displeasure with one’s role would directly affect one’s performance. Do you honestly think they’re not trying as hard? Not working out as much? Not as focused in any particular game situation because they’re all caught up thinking, “Damnit, this should be Gregg out here right now, not me, I should have the ninth”? I don’t buy that.
yeah
seems like a stretch to me
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not a good simile
but the point about KMac making a lot more money as a starter than a reliever is very valid.
Even if he’s a slightly below-average starter, he’d make more in his first free agent contract than he likely will his whole career as a slightly above-average reliever.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 13, 2010 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions
so my FSN up here isn't working
when do i start freaking out?
follow me on twitter @nickg105
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 12, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions
Any word on what Dan's pre-game weight is looking like?
The camera adds 10 pounds…so I’m guessing he should be around 220?
Mike Shannon
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
we have a rally monkey?
one of the kids has one hanging on the railing, tiny Cards cap.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
is it still alive?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
it's a--
no. no, cardball. those girls clubbed it and then hung it on the railing.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Apr 12, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
damn. there will be protests. that could be a distraction.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
"they'll come out here wide-eyed and bushy-tailed"
on the rooks.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
noo o oo oooo oooooo
I think this is the new “6” cowboy. omg.
omg.
om.g.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Bad Gateway
Blaine Matthew Burns: Albert Pujols' biggest fan (his first words will for sure be "Albert Pujols is RIDICULOUS")
"I can't *believe* they have to go to school today."
- Chris Carpenter on his kids
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
so i heard mr. strauss on the radio today
sounding the warning bells about carpenter’s health and freese’s crappy defense
When a reporter asked Gaylord Perry's 5-year-old daughter if her father threw a spitball, she replied, "It's a hard slider."
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 12, 2010 3:14 PM EDT reply actions
that's the real question - is carp's performance the product of rust/dumb luck/dead arm/bad location,
or an elbow or shoulder injury? the club doesn’t exactly have a track record of jumping up and saying “oh, he felt a twinge” after a bad performance cued by injury.
i’m just at a “concerned” level. wainwright went through a month or so of suck last year before turning in a performance that got him cy young votes. but his april velocity was about a half a mph below his season numbers (90.9 mph season v. 90.2 april).
on the velocity question, last year carp’s average velocity was 93.0; so far this season, 92.4. not a red flag yet on the velocity, for me.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Strauss seems more and more like the Glenn Beck of Cardinals baseball every day
by mojowo11 on Apr 12, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
or like keith olbermann
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I like the bipartisanship
Our collective annoyance at Strauss truly brings us together toward a common goal.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
that's it
i can’t stand either idiot, and i can’t stand strauss (although i have to say i hate olbermann more – he went from fairly cool sports guy who pretty much knew his stuff to wimpy dude who god knows if he knows anything because he’s always trying to shill)
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Glenn Beck is genuinely frightening, in a weird sort of way
I find it hard to believe he doesn’t have a ton of bodies buried under his patio.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 13, 2010 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's a comedian
Don’t you know? He’s just trying to get a laugh and entertain people. He doesn’t sway people’s opinions, he just makes people think.
/sarcasm.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
he probably does
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 13, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
jimmy came up a foot short in reaching lee's hit to center
should have been an easy one.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
the newbies to opening day being interviewed
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Lopex says he been shown a lot of love.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Clydesdales ready to go.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
this is totally unrelated
but in 7th grade my parents took my sister and i took disney world for halloween. At the very beginning of the halloween parade the horse for the headless horseman took a dump on the street. Nobody cleaned it up and the rest of the parade walked right through it.
When a reporter asked Gaylord Perry's 5-year-old daughter if her father threw a spitball, she replied, "It's a hard slider."
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 12, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
magic of Disney
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
you should see all the horse shit stepped in
at the mardis gras parades. i saw a high school tuba player go down by stepping in it – the band marched on – very impressive all-around.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
hilarious
When a reporter asked Gaylord Perry's 5-year-old daughter if her father threw a spitball, she replied, "It's a hard slider."
by FredbirdisaDork on Apr 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
that's ridiculous
isn’t it, like, fantastic free advertising for them? And they make you PAY for it???
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Apr 13, 2010 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
It's like paying money for the privilege of having "Abercrombie" emblazoned across your torso
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I dunno about "free" advertising
I would venture to say that caring for the Clydesdales is a pretty sizable business expense.
That said, if Budweiser could do it for that long, they could probably manage it.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
3-run shot by nady
cubs up 3-0
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
2-run shot by baker
make it 5-0
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
who's pitching?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
game thread por favor?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
on it.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
nm
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
what's the remix of this song they are playing in Busch called?
Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man
Man, that is a sea of red and white.lol
Tis a most beautiful sight.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Apr 12, 2010 3:55 PM EDT reply actions
rec'd
"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 12, 2010 8:04 PM EDT reply actions
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