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NL Projection Medians, Underdogs, Overachievers and more Revised

Today I was inspired by tom s. article using the new Fans WAR projections. I had been throwing around an idea in my head about looking at some best case scenarios with some possibly underrated teams, so I thought I would look at some predictions using WAR and probably a few other newfangled saber-tooth stategery. Early in spring training I decided to do some rather underdoggish predictions for division favorites (well, mostly... I did pick a few clear cut 1st place finishers such as the Cards, Yanks, and White Sox in that briefly-lived signature that also involved bacon infused bacon, but more on this later). But before I do that, I wanted to look more into a Cards-Phils rivalry for the NL pennant.

tom s. showed with Fans projected WAR that the Cardinals and Phillies pitching staffs were just about dead even, with the Phils having a slight edge. I thought I might take a slightly different approach, and check on what type of innings pitched and fielder independent pitching were being predicted by the various different systems listed at fangraphs.com. To do this I went with the very simple method of averaging out the systems (what they have listed are Bill James, CHONE, Marcel, Fans, and ZiPS). Here is what I found out to be the median projections of these systems:

 

  • Carpenter...... 3.294 FIP/148 IP
  • Wainwright.... 3.396 FIP/203 IP
  • Penny............. 4.292 FIP/164 IP
  • Lohse............. 4.366 FIP/147 IP
  • Garcia............. 4.66 FIP/175 IP*

 

*for Garcia, the projections for innings pitched were all very low, and I thought that Lohse's projections were way too low, so I went with the completely arbitrary number of 175 for Jaime. 

Now averaging the median projected FIP for the Cardinals starters we get 4, and 167.4 innings pitched.

 

As for the Phillies starters.....

 

  • Halladay.......... 3.174 FIP/223 IP
  • Hamels........... 3.774 FIP/199 IP
  • Blanton............ 4.2 FIP/197 IP
  • Happ................ 4.536 FIP/164 IP
  • Moyer............... 4.936 FIP/154 IP

 

So for the Phillies, their average median projections equate to 4.12 FIP, and 187.4 innings pitched. So the picture I see being painted by these numbers is the Cards have a little more quality to their rotation, but the Phils have a lot more quantity since their starters are being valued a lot more for their endurance. Of course, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to see all of Carp, Penny, and Lohse to have greater innings totals, but it also wouldn't be much of a stretch to see Happ have a better FIP, but we'll go with this picture. Needless to say, both pitching staffs are loaded with talent and are among the elite in starting pitching in both leagues.

I'm going to all but skip the bullpen, considering I think both Franklin and Lidge will both be very hard to predict this year, and the Cards are better from the left side but the Phils are probably better from the right. It's not going to be a huge factor in all likelihood, but the projections are saying that the Cards bullpen may get overexposed. I guess we'll see about that. We know last year that we got lucky and didn't have to use the bullpen too much. Maybe some more exposure will help the inexperienced, since who knows what Boggs and Motte will do.

On to the other positions..... I will be using the average predictions for wOBA and WAR (only Fans and CHONE for WAR) to help evaluate:

 

  • Molina............. .327 wOBA/3.35 WAR
  • Pujols.............. .443 wOBA/7.55 WAR
  • Schumaker..... .335 wOBA/1.9 WAR
  • Ryan................. .311 wOBA/2.75 WAR
  • Freese.............. .339 wOBA/2.1 WAR (only 4 projections on the freeser for wOBA)
  • Holliday............. .396 wOBA/5.35 WAR
  • Rasmus............ .334 wOBA/3.6 WAR
  • Ludwick.............. .359 wOBA/2.5 WAR

 

So for the Cardinals starters, the overall wOBA is predicted to be around .356. Their WAR median projection by the 2 systems projecting for WAR is 3.64.... or 29.1 total projection.

And for the Phillies projected starters:

 

  • Ruiz..................... .326 wOBA/2.5 WAR
  • Howard............... .391 wOBA/4.45 WAR
  • Utley..................... .395 wOBA/7.05 WAR
  • Rollins................. .342 wOBA/4.15 WAR
  • Polanco............... .332 wOBA/2.85 WAR
  • Ibanez.................. .361 wOBA/2.35 WAR
  • Victorino.............. .346 wOBA/3.35 WAR
  • Werth................... .377 wOBA/4.05 WAR

 

The Phillies median projected wOBA equates to .359, and their WAR is 30.75, or 3.84/player. 

Some conclusions to be made from these projections........

 

  • Phillies seem to have a slight edge in wOBA and are a couple of wins higher than the Cards
  • The Cardinals have a younger core of players, and may be less injury prone for the positional starters
  • The Cardinals probably have the superior defense, which is harder to quantify and project
  • The Phillies will most likely not have to go to their bullpen as much as the Cardinals
  • The Cards might have a bigger advantage in starting pitching than it seems, if the starters can log more innings than is suggested by the projections
  • The Phils probably have a better bullpen, the Cards a better bench

I can't really see how the two teams could be much more evenly matched. The Cardinals have some injury worries in the rotation, the Phillies have an aging defense. The Cards have the best player in Albert, and the Phillies probably have the best pitcher in Roy Halladay. Both teams have questionable closers, and an edge from opposite sides of the 'pen. The Cardinals may end up with an overexposed and inexperienced bullpen, but this could be alleviated through trade midseason. Finally, the Cards have a more talented defense and a slightly more talented starting pitching crew, both of which might be the difference maker between the two teams.

Star-divide

A few weeks ago, I made some off the cuff predictions for divisional winners in one of my many signatures over the last year or so. I picked some obvious winners, such as the Yanks and Cards. I also had some less obvious predictions such as the Braves and Diamondbacks, and I wanted to see how these teams measured up if you give them a rather sunny outlook for their projections. If you take the highest projected FIP for each player in the starting lineups for these teams (also, the Fans WAR projection), you get some interesting results:

 

  • Hudson........... 3.74 FIP/3.4 WAR (CHONE)
  • Lowe................ 3.72 FIP/3.9 WAR (Fans)
  • Jurrjens........... 3.63 FIP/4.1 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Hanson............ 3.34 FIP/4.6 WAR (Fans)
  • Kawakami........ 4.06 FIP/2.3 WAR (ZiPs)

So if things shake out really well for the Braves starting pitching, they could end up with a FIP of 3.7 with that starting 5! Their Fans projected WAR is 18.3, which is higher than the Phils' roughly 16 WAR starting corps. That's pretty impressive.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that the Braves' bullpen is also better than the Phillies'. I could be way off base on that, but it's not a big factor anyway.

Now obviously, the Braves' offense are going to struggle to compete with the Phils, but is it possible that they could overtake the Phillies this season? Here are the sunny side wOBA projections for the Braves' hitters, as well as the averaged WAR projections from Fans and CHONE (the wOBA projection I've listed is in parenthesis):

 

  • McLouth............ .364 wOBA/3.2 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Prado................ .355 wOBA/2.5 WAR (Marcel)
  • Jones................ .397 wOBA/4.15 WAR (Bill James)
  • Glaus................ .356 wOBA/1.95 WAR (3 systems project at .356)
  • McCann............. .378 wOBA/5.05 WAR (Fans)
  • Escobar............. .357 wOBA/4.5 WAR (Fans)
  • Diaz.................. .365 wOBA/1.6 WAR (ZiPs)
  • M. Cabrera......... .358 wOBA/2.35 WAR (CHONE)

 

In case Heyward makes the team, James predicts a .368 wOBA. So I guess that wouldn't change the projection a whole lot. So I'll go with this lineup: .366 wOBA and 25.3 WAR. So if the Braves starting lineup overachieves, they could have a .368 wOBA, putting them in the ballpark with the Phillies. The WAR total, however, is over 5 wins less on offense. I suppose that if Chipper Jones and Troy Glaus shake off the dust, and Jason Heyward wins rookie of the year or something, the 5 win gap could be closed somewhat, and considering the Braves starting pitching is projected a median nearly 2.5 wins higher than the Phils', things could get pretty interesting in the East. While the Phillies are the clear cut favorites in the AL East, I wouldn't say that they will have a walk in the park as the Braves have themselves quite a good team this year. If the Braves bullpen is significantly better than the Phillies', then the two teams could be virtually tied towards the end of the season, as I think their defense may be a tad better as well.

How about the Diamondbacks, another possible dark horse candidate? Let's have a look:

 

  • Webb................. 3.46 FIP/3.9 WAR (James and CHONE for the FIP)
  • Haren................ 3.15 FIP/6 WAR (Fans)
  • Jackson............ 4.41 FIP/2.4 WAR (CHONE, ZiPs)
  • Kennedy............ 4.2 FIP/1.6 WAR (CHONE)
  • Buckner............. 4.46 FIP/1.5 WAR (CHONE, Fans)

 

So that shapes up to 3.94 FIP and a total of 15.4 WAR for their starting pitching. nearly as good as the Phillies. And if they overachieve and reach their ideal projections, that 3.94 FIP looks pretty damn good.

Offensively, I'm not too sure about the DBacks this year, maybe I should have picked the Dodgers earlier in the year. But let's have a look:

 

  • S. Drew............ .343 wOBA/3.1 WAR (James likes Drew the best)
  • C. Jackson...... .360 wOBA/2.05 WAR (Fans)
  • J. Upton........... .393 wOBA/4.7 WAR (Fans)
  • A. LaRoche..... .382 wOBA/1.95 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Reynolds......... .386 wOBA/3.6 WAR (James)
  • Montero............ .350 wOBA/3 WAR (Fans)
  • Young............... .343 wOBA/1.5 WAR (James)
  • K. Johnson....... .361 wOBA/2.55 WAR (ZiPs)

 

For the Diamondbacks, the best projections predict them for .365 wOBA. And an average of Fans and CHONE say that they are 22.45 wins above replacement level. Not quite as comfortable with this prediction, but I think both their starting pitching and the hitting have a lot of upside.... especially if Reynolds continues to hit a lot of home runs, Justin Upton does even better than the Fans wOBA projection. I suppose Adam Laroche, Conor Jackson, and Kelly Johnson could also outperform those projections... still, I think I'll have to change my mind to the Dodgers as favorites. But I should probably check out what the Dodgers have going on...

 

  • Kershaw............ 3.41 FIP/4.6 WAR (Fans FIP)
  • Billingsley.......... 3.48 FIP/4.4 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Kuroda............... 3.72 FIP/3.2 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Padilla................ 4.46 FIP/1.8 WAR (Fans)
  • ?.......................... 4.7* FIP/1 WAR*

 

The Dodgers look to have an unsettled 5th rotation spot, and might have a revolving door there all season. So the * denotes arbitrary guesses there. Still, even with those numbers their rotations FIP could still be pretty solid, at 3.95. The lack of a decisive 5th starter leads me to believe that the Diamondbacks may have a slight edge in starting pitching, and I would rather have Haren and Webb personally. As for the Fans projected WAR, 15 is the total here. So I'd give the slight edge to the Diamondbacks in the starting rotation.

Offensively, here's what the Dodgers are looking like:

 

  • Furcal................. .329 wOBA/2.9 WAR (James)
  • Kemp................. .381 wOBA/5 WAR (James)
  • Ethier.................. .379 wOBA/2.95 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Ramirez............. .409 wOBA/3.25 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Loney................. .353 wOBA/1.8 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Blake.................. .351 wOBA/2.75 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Dewitt................. .328 wOBA/1.5 WAR (Marcel)
  • Martin................. .346 wOBA/3.8 WAR (Fans)

 

So the Dodgers' team wOBA in a best case scenario is projected at .360, and the median total WAR between Fans and CHONE is 23.95. I think I'd have to change my prediction to the Dodgers, unless there's a compelling reason to believe that the Diamondbacks defense and bullpen are significantly better than the Dodgers is, but I don't see it. Still, the teams are pretty closely matched and it should be a dogfight, especially if the Dodgers lose any core players to injury for a significant amount of time.

Lastly, I'd like to check out our main divisional rival using this method, the Cubs.... first off, the starting pitching:

 

  • Zambrano........... 3.94 FIP/3.4 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Dempster............ 3.79 FIP/3.5 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Wells.................... 4.1 FIP/2.6 WAR (James)
  • Silva...................... 4.53 FIP/.6 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Gorzelanny.......... 4.01 FIP/1.1 WAR (James)

 

The Cubs starting pitching has taken a big hit in production from previous years. Still, they ain't too shabby at 4.07 FIP, not to mention the fact that Lilly will return and is better than either Silva or Gorz, most likely they will have to figure out to do with Silva. If it stays like this, the WAR would be 11.2. Add in a best case projected FIP of 4 and 2.9 WAR for Lilly, you'd have more like 14 WAR. Not all that impressive though.

Offensively, the Cubs are probably more dangerous....

 

  • Theriot................. .329 wOBA/2.7 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Fukudome.......... .349 wOBA/2.5 WAR (James)
  • D. Lee.................. .386 wOBA/3.5 WAR (James)
  • Ramirez............... .384 wOBA/4 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Byrd...................... .354 wOBA/2.55 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Soriano................ .357 wOBA/1.7 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Fontenot.............. .334 wOBA/1.45 WAR (James)
  • Soto...................... .362 wOBA/3.6 WAR (James)

 

The starting core for the Cubs averages .357 wOBA and the median WAR projection between Fans and CHONE puts them at 22 wins above replacement. I definitely have no doubt that I overrated the Cubs when I picked them for wild card now.... 

Which brings me to my revised NL picks: Cards, Phillies, Dodgers and Braves for wild card. I think the NL West is just about too close to call, but the Dodgers probably have a slight edge. Heck, maybe even the Rockies will win the wild west, but I think the Braves are the dark horse candidate for the NL. Actually, since cardball pointed out that the Rockies may be just as competent a team as the Dodgers or Diamondbacks, let's see what they can do:

 

  • Jimenez............... 3.41 FIP/5.1 WAR (Fans)
  • Cook................... 4.28 FIP/2.6 WAR (CHONE)
  • de la Rosa........... 4.05 FIP/3 WAR (Fans)
  • Francis................ 4.26 FIP/2 WAR* (*a guess, no Fans projection)
  • Hammel............... 4.00 FIP/2.9 WAR (Fans)

 

Total of 4 FIP average if you look at best case scenario and 15.6 WAR for the starting pitching. 

 

  • C. Gonzalez......... .360 wOBA/3.35 WAR (CHONE)
  • Fowler.................. .364 wOBA/2.8 WAR (James)
  • Helton.................. .391 wOBA/3.5 WAR (James)
  • Tulowitzsky........... .379 wOBA/6.15 WAR (CHONE)
  • Hawpe.................. .394 wOBA/1.85 WAR (ZiPs)
  • Stewart................. .358 wOBA/3.25 WAR (CHONE)
  • Ianetta.................. .369 wOBA/3.55 WAR (James)
  • Barmes................. .319 wOBA/1.9 WAR (Marcel)

Rockies offense comes out to .367 wOBA at best and a total of 26.35 median WAR projection. Thats quite a consistent offense and if they could replace Barmes.... very potent. I personally still like the Diamondbacks offense a tad better, as well as their starting pitching, and the Dodgers are no doubt a force to be reckoned with. But if the Rockies indeed put up something like a .367 wOBA for their starters, they could just as easily win the division.

Finally, here's the best case scenarios and WAR for the Cards and Phils:

 

- Cards best case projection for FIP: 3.84
- Cards Fans WAR projection for SP: 15.4 (assuming Garcia puts up 1 WAR)
- Cards best case projection wOBA: .364
- Cards median WAR projection offense: 29.1

- Phils best case projection for FIP: 3.98
- Phils Fans WAR projection for SP: 15.8
- Phils best case projection wOBA: .369
- Phils median WAR projection offense: 30.7

After doing all this, here's how I'd rank the NL:

 

  1. Phillies
  2. Cardinals
  3. Dodgers/Rockies/Diamondback (I can't decide!)
  4. Braves

But wait, there's more! The Reds and Brewers may not be so bad, right? First off, the Brewers best case projections and median WAR:

  • Rickie Weeks: .364 wOBA by CHONE; 3.05 median WAR
  • Carlos Gomez: .323 wOBA by CHONE; 2.35 median WAR
  • Ryan Braun: .411 wOBA by Bill James; 4.85 median WAR
  • Prince Fielder: .412 wOBA by CHONE; 5.25 median WAR
  • Corey Hart: .344 wOBA by James/CHONE; 1.7 median WAR
  • Casey McGehee: .351 wOBA by Marcel; 1.4 median WAR
  • Greg Zaun: .325 wOBA by ZiPs; 1.35 median WAR
  • Alcides Escobar: .341 wOBA by Marcel; 2.15 median WAR

That lineup averages out to an upside of .359 wOBA... more conservatively, the WAR would be a median of 22.1

Now I'm sure their rotation pretty much drops off a cliff, right?

  • Dave Bush: 4.51 FIP by Fans; 1.6 Fans WAR
  • Doug Davis: 4.39 FIP by Bill James; 1.7 Fans WAR
  • Yovani Gallardo: 3.52 FIP by Bill James; 3.7 Fans WAR
  • Manny Parra: 3.93 FIP by Bill James; 2.1 Fans WAR
  • Randy Wolf: 4.1 FIP by Fans; 3 Fans WAR

That averages out to a 4.09 FIP upside... and 12.1 WAR median. Not too bad.

The Reds, eh? What are they projected to do in 2010? Is this their year?

  • Joey Votto: .407 wOBA by Bill James; 4.3 median WAR
  • Brandon Phillips: .342 wOBA by ZiPs; 3.1 median WAR
  • Orlando Cabrera: .330 by ZiPs; 1.15 median WAR
  • Scott Rolen: .353 by Fans; 3.3 median WAR
  • Jay Bruce: .379 by CHONE; 3.05 median WAR
  • Drew Stubbs: .341 by Marcel; 2.9 median WAR
  • Chris Dickerson: .358 by Bill James; 2.45 median WAR
  • Ramon Hernandez: .325 by CHONE; 1.7 median WAR

Their lineup averages out to .354 wOBA by various projection upsides. The median WAR projection is 21.95.

Now how would their starting rotation look like if it stays like this:

  • Bronson Arroyo: 4.49 FIP by Bill James; 2.2 Fans WAR
  • Homer Bailey: 4.08 FIP by Fans; 2.8 Fans WAR
  • Johnny Cueto: 4.21 FIP by Fans; 2.7 Fans WAR
  • Aaron Harang: 4.08 FIP by Fans; 3 Fans WAR
  • ?: not sure who their fifth starter would be, let's go with Volquez: 4.04 FIP by ZiPs; 1.2 Fans WAR
Now obviously, it's hard to say since we don't know who the fifth starter is for sure, could be Chapman too, and he isn't even on fangraphs. Anyway, the upside for their rotation is 4.18 FIP by various projection systems... and the total Fans projected WAR is 11.9.

Comment 86 comments  |  7 recs  | 

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which all boils down to

- Cards projected median starter’s FIP: 4
- Phils median starter’s FIP: 4.12
- Cards median wOBA: .356
- Phils median wOBA: .359

- Braves best case projection for FIP: 3.7
- Braves WAR projection for starting pitching: 18.3
- Braves best case projection for wOBA: .368
- Braves median WAR for hitting: 25.3

- DBacks best case scenario for FIP: 3.94
- DBacks WAR projection for SP: 15.4
- DBacks best case projection for wOBA: .365
- DBacks median WAR for hitting: 22.45

- Dodgers best case FIP: 3.95
- Dodgers SP WAR projection: 15
- Dodgers best case wOBA: .360
- Dodgers median WAR for hitting: 23.95

- Cubs best case FIP: 4.07
- Cubs pitching WAR w/Lilly: 14
- Cubs best case wOBA: .357
- Cubs median WAR for hitting: 22

- Bill James and ZiPs seem to like the Cubs more than the other systems
- ZiPs is pretty optimistic overall, likes the Dodgers too
- CHONE likes the Diamondbacks starting pitching FIP
- Fans seems to be pretty well rounded with it’s best case scenarios

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2010 2:27 AM EDT reply actions  

this feels incomplete without the best case Cards and Phils projections and median WAR for hitters

- Cards best case projection for FIP: 3.84
- Cards Fans WAR projection for SP: 15.4 (assuming Garcia puts up 1 WAR)
- Cards best case projection wOBA: .364
- Cards median WAR projection offense: 29.1

- Phils best case projection for FIP: 3.98
- Cards Fans WAR projection for SP: 15.8
- Cards best case projection wOBA: .327
- Cards median WAR projection offense: 27.85

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

you can edit...

Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Mar 28, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh

I’ll edit the fanpost and put that info in there

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I forgot Placido for the Phils

their median WAR for offense is 30.7 and .369 best projections for wOBA

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

chitown

you finally mentioned them in your very last sentence, but i was wondering “where the heck are the rockies?” in my mind they’re the favorites to win the west.

i like how our pitching stacks up to the phils, but personally i doubt garcia throws 175 innings – i don’t think they’d even let him do that. but moyer throwing 154 innings probably ain’t happening either.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Mar 28, 2010 2:56 AM EDT reply actions  

doesn't change any of the conclusions though

the Cards starting pitching projections point at innings pitched as the rotation’s weakness, so we may have to use the bullpen quite a bit.

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what you would have said before last season, too

Even moreso considering Wainwright and Carpenter were both coming off injury. If anything we should be more optimistic about this season than last, although obviously you can’t expect the same performance and good luck.

by oplaid on Mar 28, 2010 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty comfortable thinking that we will have more innings pitched than the projections are giving credit for

Carpenter…… 3.294 FIP/148 IP
Wainwright…. 3.396 FIP/203 IP
Penny…………. 4.292 FIP/164 IP
Lohse…………. 4.366 FIP/147 IP
Garcia…………. 4.66 FIP/175 IP*

Say Garcia only pitches like 130 innings, I think we’ll at the very least get more than 147 from Lohse, and probably more from Carp as well. Penny too…. hopefully not quite that many from Waino so he doesn’t get overworked, but I guess 200 ain’t horrible.

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

good stuff chitown, good, good stuff

Hope is the worst of all evils, for it prolongs the torment of man

by gdm426 on Mar 28, 2010 11:34 PM EDT reply actions  

a rambling fanpost if ever there was one

hopefully the AL one will be a little more coherent and easy to decide. looks like the top 6 teams in the NL are pretty close together

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 28, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the AL is even more of a crapshoot

it’s not implausible that ANY team in the West could win it, though I think Oakland are something of a long shot, and there’s 2-3 teams in contention in both the other divisions (although the Twins and Yanks are obvious favourites).

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Mar 31, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I was just reading about the AL West this morning

The Rangers coach said that everyone is counting out the A’s, but he said they are probably just as good as anybody in their division. They’re the worst team, but not by much.

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 31, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

They have probably one of the 3 or 4 best rotations in the AL

and they have hands-down the best bullpen in baseball. Unfortunately, they also might have one of the worst outfields and probably pretty much the worst infield in the AL (KC excepted…).

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 1, 2010 5:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's gotta be frustrating

but I guess they are pretty much like the Mariners it seems, maybe with slightly better pitching and not as much offense though. can their defense stack up with the M’s?

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 1, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes

their OF is very strong in particular. The first two games of this season their lineup (plus career UZR/150s in the respective position has been):

OF: Travis Buck +10.6
OF: Ryan Sweeney +17.1
OF: Rajai Davis +11.3
3B: Kevin Kouzmanoff +2.8
SS: Cliff Pennington -14.7 (note: in only 68 starts)
2B: Mark Ellis +8.1
1B: Daric Barton +6.5

So, plus defenders in every spot except SS, with an outfield solely comprised of good centre fielders.

They just hit like shit, that’s all.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 7, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

pretty decent catcher too

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Apr 7, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting to see the difference in lineup construction

The Phillies and Cards are more top heavy, whereas the Braves and Rockies are very balanced

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Mar 29, 2010 10:51 AM EDT reply actions  

yeah

those two teams might just grind you down with consistency. does anyone have any opinions on the bullpens for these teams? I’m sure there has to be an edge for someone, the Braves seem to have a good bullpen… how about the West teams?

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 29, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm a little leery of the braves lineup

considering they sent mclouth down to minors to try to learn to hit again, a problem that began the end of last year. glaus is hitting for a .300+ in spring, but it’s all singles. mccann is probably having the best spring in baseball, though, with an ops around 1.600. much will depend on how healthy chipper stays, and heyward really having a terrific rookie year.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Mar 29, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think a huge factor in the Braves' advantage

is that, even though Chipper’s their only star hitter, they get really solid production out of traditionally poor-hitting spots. Both their middle infielders are well above average with the bat, and McCann is obviously the 2nd best hitting catcher in baseball. I think that makes a real difference, compared to teams that tend to punt those three positions in favour of defence.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Mar 31, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

There has to be a value in minimizing your “automatic outs” any given game. Guys like Yunel Escobar are decent hitters at great positions.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Mar 31, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

yup

they are just going to be more consistent…. just look how our offense suffered the last two years with lopsided lineups… i.e. Izturis, to a lesser extent Kennedy, the 3B “situation” last year, etc

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 31, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

A couple of things
  1. I think the Marlins are going to be a factor in the East. They have a good 1 & 2 starting pitching combo in Nolasco and Johnson and an offense that will score some runs. Will they win the division? No, but I could definitely see them contending for the wild card with Atlanta if Chipper happens to get hurt.
  2. The Rockies are my favorite to win the West, only because I don’t believe in the Dodgers pitching staff. Kuroda can’t stay healthy, Padilla isn’t worth a crap, and Ortiz is an unknown. If Kershaw has a sophomore slump (not likely) or Billingsley struggles after hitting 150 innings like he did last year (very likely) they’ll be in deep shit, and they don’t have an offense that can really carry them. I think all four teams in that division are within 6 games of the top spot in August though, so it could be a fantastic finish to the season out West.
  3. In the Central, I think some numbers on the Reds would have been a good idea. I think they’re the second best team in the division on paper, even better than the Cubs. Bailey was great at the end of last year, Harang is due to bounce back a little bit, Cueto just needs consistency but is unhittable at times, Chapman is a phenom, Arroyo eats innings, and Volquez could be back in August. They also have Mike Leake who could progress quickly. Their offense is better than that of the Cubs and not quite as good as the Brewers or Cardinals, assuming everyone is healthy. But they have some good breakout candidates in Dickerson and Stubbs, and Votto is a stud when healthy. If Bruce can bounce back and their pitching staff pitches well, they’ll contend. They have essentially similar questions as the Cubs, only the players are a decade younger than those on the Cubs. Chicago is essentially hoping the Randy Wells is the real deal Gorzellany doesn’t suck, and Lilly doesn’t miss a lot of time and picks up where he left off. Along with paying $18M for a below average left fielder, I think the Cubs have a lot more problems than the Reds do.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Mar 30, 2010 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

what's the word on Chapman?

when will he be a factor? Volquez may be back too late, and who knows what he will be pitching like. still not sold on Cueto, but the potential’s there, he just seems to not have much command or something. I feel pretty comfortable saying that the Cubs will be better than the Reds, but I think I will see what I can come up with for these other teams, I was thinking about that as well, don’t want to sell them short. although I was mainly thinking of the Marlins

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 30, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Remember that once upon a time

Homer Bailey was a top 10 prospect and that he was as good as there was in the NL in September. If Cueto pitches like he did in April and May (50 K/20 BB in 67 Innings, FIP just over 3.00) for the whole season and Bailey pitches like he did in September (43 IP, 43/19 K/BB, 3/07 FIP) for the whole season, look the fuck out.

Chapman looks to be starting in the minors, but I’d be shocked if he stayed there considering that neither Lehr or Mahoney are considered to be good prospects and they’ll be the fifth starters. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see Mike Leake move through the ranks quickly. He was their top pick out of college in last years draft and was a senior as well I believe, so he should move quickly.

Next spring they could have a rotation of Bailey, Cueto, Volquez, Chapman, and Leake. Eeeesh, that’s scary. I’m glad they have Dusty to somehow fuck up two of those arms and Jocketty to trade away Leake for Carl Crawford and then not sign him.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Mar 30, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I was going to say

They have all this depth even without Volquez. It’s amazing. They could really use some offense though. Votto can’t do it alone, and Alonso has no position with Votto there.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Mar 31, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

there's talk they might move Votto to LF

but I imagine that will hurt his value quite a bit. Still, he played a game or two there in his rookie year, I think.

I don’t think their offense is that bad as long as Bruce does OK this year. They don’t have too many black holes, and even guys like Dickerson and Stubbs have a shot at being average with the bat, alongside Phillips and Rolen who should be a bit above that, and obviously Votto and Bruce who should be the big boppers. They’ve also got quite a bit of depth in the OF – Balentien has sucked so far in the bigs but he’s got a lot of power potential, and they’ve got Johnny Gomes and He-Man (Laynce Nix) too.

I also think their bullpen is seriously under-rated; Nick Masset is probably the best set-up guy no-one’s ever heard of, and, although he’s overpaid, Cordero is still an excellent closer, AND they’ve got a good lefty in Rhodes.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 1, 2010 5:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

There's been some talk of that

I don’t know how realistic it is. I do know that Alonso won’t be moving out there. They’d be smart to try and move Alonso this July for a middle of the order hitting LF if they are in contention and Volquez is going to be back for the stretch run. There just aren’t a lot of those guys that look like they’re going to be available this year.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Apr 1, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, hard to know what to do with him

tbh, I’d consider trying to move him in a package with Cordero, who is looking like a real anchor for them with that contract, but I really can’t see who’d want to trade for a defensively-suspect corner infielder plus an overpaid closer.

You might be right and a LF would be the best move. They could also look to do a prospect-for-prospect trade.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 7, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you package him with Cordero, though

You’re not going to get significant value in return, which is what you’d like to get with your best prospect.

FWIW, I’d give them Ludwick and another player for Cordero and Alonso, then immediately move Alonso in a prospect for prospect trade. Considering how cheap our bullpen is, we could absorb the rest of Cordero’s deal since he is an elite closer.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Apr 8, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno if we could afford that deal next year

I think he makes $12m. We’d be losing the Ludwick and Penny money off the books, but a few guys are due raises next year and we’d need to replace Penny (unless Lynn is ready and Garcia really takes off this year, in which case I guess we could go with what we’ve got, but I reckon another starter is probably the way to go). We also might end up paying Pujols some extra $.

I guess it’s possible but it would severely restrict our flexibility and probably means a payroll bump.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 9, 2010 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think their offense will be ok

Rolen is still a pretty good bat, he just doesn’t have a lot of pop anymore — I would think playing in Cincy would help that. Bruce is a 30-35 HR threat if he can stay healthy, Phillips is one of the better hitting 2B in the NL, Cabrera is an upgrade over what they had last year. What they really need is for one or both of Stubbs and Dickerson to really break out this year. That let’s them leave Gomes and his horrific defense on the bench for pinch hitting duties (to which he’s really more suited anyway) and they’ll then have a couple of guys at the top of the order than can get on base and run.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Apr 1, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Say wha?

He’s hit 43 homers in 209 games. That’s pretty good considering he’s had significant injuries in both of those years. If he’s healthy, I would predict a .265/.345/.500 type season from him.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Apr 1, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

his wOBA projections range from .335 to .379

wow…. that’s a huge gap… OPS .774 to .890, ZiPs does not like him, CHONE loves him

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 1, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

and his BABIP was super low last year

yeah, he could have a break out year. at some point I am going to finish this post, just been pretty busy this week/weekend

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 1, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

you see that web gem gomes made yesterday

and then hurtled the fence? obviously he is an elite defender.

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Apr 1, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW

Leake and Travis Wood were still in the picture for the 5th starter role until just a couple of days ago.

They have so much pitching depth it’s insane.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Mar 30, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't they just draft Leake?

There’s no way he’s ready. He needs more time.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Mar 31, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

They drafted him last year

and he was anticipated by nearly everyone to be a very fast mover in the minor leagues prior to the draft last year. I would guess he’ll be ready no later than next spring, and he could see some time this year if they’re decimated with injuries. He was one of the last guys cut from the roster this spring, and Jocketty said they were giving him a really good look for the 5th starter up to that point. That’s high praise from someone like Jocketty.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Apr 1, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Impressive

I just think that in this day in age, it is unimaginable now to not give a guy plenty of seasoning before going to the big leagues.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Apr 1, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is, ridiculously, their 5th starter this year, apparently.

Can’t really see how a guy who’s barely played any pro-ball and was struggling to top 90mph with his FB whilst getting lit up in ST can earn a major league spot, but there ya go. I really don’t think he’s ready. I suppose that, despite the vaunted Cinci depth (and I do believe it’s there, Leake will be good fairly soon and Chapman looks like a beast) they’re a bit short of options to eat innings at the back of the rotation.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 7, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't underestimate the Diamondbacks

Their offense looks very good, the young talent is almost developed. They have 2 top tier starters and a solid #3 (Jackson). If Webb can’t go though, I don’t like them as much.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Mar 31, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, this lineup looks to be pretty sweet, lots of young talent

 

S. Drew………… .343 wOBA/3.1 WAR (James likes Drew the best)
C. Jackson…… .360 wOBA/2.05 WAR (Fans)
J. Upton……….. .393 wOBA/4.7 WAR (Fans)
A. LaRoche….. .382 wOBA/1.95 WAR (ZiPs)
Reynolds……… .386 wOBA/3.6 WAR (James)
Montero………… .350 wOBA/3 WAR (Fans)
Young…………… .343 wOBA/1.5 WAR (James)
K. Johnson……. .361 wOBA/2.55 WAR (ZiPs

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 31, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Justin Upton, Reynolds, Adam Laroche, Kelly Johnson has some upside still, Connor Jackson is solid

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 31, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

They'll score runs

I’m just not sold on their rotation outside of Haren. Jackson could be a one year wonder and Webb may not be healthy. Behind those guys there’s a lot of desert.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Apr 1, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you

I atrribute Jackson’s slide more to the inning’s side than I do anything. Last year was the first time he pitched more than 200 innings. (About 30 more than 2008 and 50 more than 2007). I think he will be consistent through the entire year.

As for Webb, it’s hard to say. One side of me says that he’s been a Cy Young guy year after year and has pitched at least 180 innings every year of his career except 2009, but the other side says that he was injured in the shoulder, and you never know with pitchers. I certainly hope they do well (I hate every other team in the division really), and they have the tools to do it. They just need to deliver and stay healthy.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Apr 1, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

isn't webb on the DL?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Apr 1, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I think he's out till the end of April.

In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)

by Taskmaster on Apr 1, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's concerning

tbh I’ve never really liked the D-Backs in that division too much.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 7, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you read it?

You can read it in any tone you like.

by spants on Mar 31, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's pretty close

the Phillies are definitely projected to be a bit better. remember, these are just projections so make of that what you will. I personally think they’ll be about equal given that we have a better hitting coach now, and we will have a year of Holliday, and Luddy and Colby should be better.

the median of all the projection systems pegs the Cardinals to be just 1/1000 of a wOBA point, which is weighted on base average (basically a more accurate version of OPS, which summarizes power and hitting discipline). while the best case of all the systems like the Phillies a bit more than that and doesn’t peg them as quite as close, but they are still close. and remember the Cards starting rotation is projected to be a bit better than the Phils so those 2 teams are very similar.

as an aside, what’s interesting is that people could be underrating the Diamondbacks and Braves offenses, their upside seems to be quite nice. especially if Heyward is the real deal and Justin Upton comes into his own, if he hasn’t already

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 31, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

totally messed up the first sentence of that second paragraph

should read Cards are within 3/1000 of a wOBA point from the Phillies offense median projection.

Allen Craig > Nick Stavinoha

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Mar 31, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I personally think they’ll be about equal given that we have a better hitting coach now, and we will have a year of Holliday, and Luddy and Colby should be better.

I’m not really sure I agree with that. I don’t see why Ludwick or Rasmus should be any better than their projections. 3.6 WAR for Colby, in particular, looks pretty optimistic. He was barely average last year (with what MAY have been a slightly flukey defensive year, although it’s a bit early to say either way, I would reckon it’s more likely he’s worse than his 2009 UZR than better than it) so that’s a pretty enormous step forward.

We’ll have a year of Holliday, but the projections take that into account. Over 5 WAR seems a perfectly decent estimate of his likely production to me.

You could possibly argue that our bench is better than theirs – I don’t think any of their backup players project to be average with the bat, whereas we probably have at least two (Lopez, Craig) who do, and possibly a third if Mather comes round. I think that closes the gap somewhat. We’ve also probably got to take into account the likely platoon situation which will develop for us at 2B – if Lopez is taking all the ABs against LHP, we’ll get better production out of the 2B spot than the projected .335 wOBA that Schumaker has.

Still, it’s surprising actually how good our offense is, compared to the Phils. Without looking at any stats or projections, I’d have said they’re way ahead of us, so it’s kinda nice that we’ve improved so much since the start of 2009 that we’re more or less on the same page. I think they’re a nose ahead on the pitching side, too, but equally Hamels, Blanton and especially Moyer seem to have fairly rosey projections. I could see Moyer dropping off a cliff this year, and I think 200 IP is slightly optimistic for Hamels.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 1, 2010 5:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but the projections

(which you used to estimate our talent) already take that into account. It seems disingenuous to say “this is the projection for our team, but I think a few of these players will be better, so we’re as good as the team with better projections”. I agree Luddy and Colby will be better this year but those projections look about right to me.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 7, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 7, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

It comes down to two players to me:

Ludwick for us and Ibanez for them.

If Ibanez hits like he did in the second half for them last year, that’s not good for the Phillies. They need first half ’09 Raul Ibanez.

If Ludwick hits any better than he did last year then I think our offense is about as good as theirs.

Can Colby round out our new MV3?

by fourstick on Apr 1, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Best team upside by wOBA projections

Phillies .369
Braves .368
Rockies .367
Diamondbacks .365
Cardinals .364
Dodgers .360
Brewers .359
Cubs .357
Reds .354

as you can see, the Reds are probably not going to light the world on fire with their offense if the best case scenario says that their team wOBA is going to be around .354. Votto is a pretty dangerous hitter but when someone as injury prone as Jay Bruce is your next best guy, hmm. After that the rest of the lineup isn’t all that threatening. Sure Dickerson and Rolen are above average, but… they also have questions with their starting rotation. I do like their bullpen though. The Phillies, Braves and Rockies should be pretty dangerous because they will be so consistent (unless injuries happen of course)

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2010 8:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Best teams by WAR median projections

Phillies 30.7
Cardinals 29.1
Rockies 26.35
Braves 25.3
Dodgers 23.95
Diamondbacks 22.45
Brewers 22.1
Cubs 22

The Cardinals catch up quite a bit with these, presumably because of their defense.

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2010 8:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Reds are last with 21.95

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

highest FIP upside by various projection systems

Braves 3.7
Cardinals 3.84
Diamondbacks 3.94
Dodgers 3.95
Phillies 3.98
Rockies 4
Cubs 4.07
Brewers 4.09
Reds 4.18

Here’s where the Braves and Cardinals really shine and set themselves apart from the other teams.

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2010 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow, really surprised we're that good there!

That’s pretty cool.

Mind you, that’s not taking bullpens into consideration, is it? I think ours could be one of the worst in the NL, and is unquestionnably the worst out of these teams here.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 7, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

worse than the cubs?

"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."

by cardball on Apr 7, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think so

Marmol might’ve really sucked last year (despite his ridiculous HR/FB luck), but I think that BB% can come down (he’d had two consecutive good years before that, and may have tired after being over-used the year before), and so he’s probably realistically better than anything we’ve got from the right side (known mediocrities and one or two live arms with bad control). John Grabow’s a pretty decent lefty and probably as good as our LOOGYs. Sean Marshall’s a nice pitcher from the left-hand side and can go multiple innings if need be.

Samardzija’s probably in a similar boat to Motte, and Esmailin Caridad could end up being a similar sort of pitcher to KMac (although I’d rather have KMac as a righty set-up guy right now).

So I suppose they’re very similar, we’ve probably got more depth but I think the fact they have a genuine strikeout guy who CAN be very good (Marmol) probably just swings it. But yeah, I guess you could argue it either way and I think CHONE might have us half a nose ahead.

RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!

by Felonius_Monk on Apr 9, 2010 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

nope

no bullpens, ours will most likely drag us down unless we use the starting pitching like we did last year. I think we’ll make a trade though for a marginal bullpen boost

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 7, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Total Fans WAR projection for starting rotations

Braves 18.3
Phillies 15.8
Rockies 15.6
Cardinals 15.4
Diamondbacks 15.4
Dodgers 15
Brewers 12.1
Reds 11.9
Cubs 11.2

The Cardinals would be higher but I believe our starters are getting sold short on innings pitched. But then again, who knows. Anyway, the Braves clearly have the most formidable starting rotation overall. Maybe not that impressive in the playoffs, but it should be able to get them there at least. The Cubs have really fallen off in their rotation… although if Lilly gets back sooner rather than later it would help them a lot. They pretty much have missed their window for now though in all likelihood. Also, the Rox look like quite a good team overall.

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2010 9:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Carp especially could be dragging down the innings

Add in Penny and Garcia too I guess.

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Apr 6, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

the projection on Lohse was super low

I think that’s the biggest culprit. I think he will have a lot more than 147 innings or whatever it was

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Upside and total WAR

Total WAR by Fans SP and median WAR between Fans and CHONE:

Phillies 46.5
Cardinals 44.5
Braves 43.6
Rockies 41.95

perhaps our 4 playoff teams?

Dodgers 38.95
Diamondbacks 37.85
Brewers 34.2
Reds 33.85
Cubs 33.2

maybe next year, Cubs fans!

The Braves have a ton of upside if they stay healthy. Their rotation should put in a lot of innings and if they don’t win the Wild Card, I will be pretty surprised. Their bullpen is pretty solid and Bobby Cox will want to go out in style.

The Cardinals starting rotation could be quite devastating to other teams, especially in the playoffs. The hitting should be consistent enough to carry them, but of course we have a big ? for the bullpen. Probably will be a trade happening I would think to bolster the ’pen (if needed).

If the Diamondbacks overperform hitting-wise and Webb is back to his old self, they look to be a nice dark horse candidate. I think I seriously like them more than the Dodgers, or at least about the same. Depends on their bullpens I guess since I haven’t included that info.

Ok, this was pretty fun! I hope to get an AL version done before too long, and it’ll hopefully be more organized. I suppose my methodology could be a bit more advanced but I think we have a general idea of what to expect in the 2010 season.

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2010 9:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Cool stuff, Chitown

Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.

by mattybobo on Apr 6, 2010 9:54 PM EDT reply actions  

danka

"they make an adjustment or look into it, ultimately, somebody's going to get hurt" Carp was seen yelling at the home plate umpire

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 6, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Finally did division winners and such

Braves, Cards, Rockies, Giants (WC)
Red Sox, Twins, Angels, Rays (WC)

Cards over Red Sox in 6, Carpenter WS MVP

MVP – Pujols, Longoria
Cy Young – Wainwright, Ervin Santana
ROY – Heyward, Matusz

....my quick smells like french toast...

Twitter: @mstreeter06

by mstreeter06 on Apr 7, 2010 1:41 AM EDT reply actions  

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