Kyle McClellan, Starter
by DanUpBaby on Feb 8, 2010 6:00 AM EST
442 comments
This story seems to me, suddenly, to be rolling toward inevitability from implausibility in the same way that Skip Schumaker, Second Baseman did last year.
General manager John Mozeliak insisted after signing Hill to a minor-league contract last month that he did not envision additional moves until well into camp. That suggests an extended look for McClellan.
"I've been told to come in prepared to start," McClellan said. "Of course, that depends on the moves they make going forward. As of right now there's a fifth spot open. My whole mind-set is to come in and show I can start. Obviously, the last two years show I can pitch in the bullpen. Really it depends on where they see me and being the best fit."
Wasn't this exactly how it worked last year? We all thought Skip Schumaker looked and hit kind of like a second baseman; the Cardinals "considered" it; the Cardinals went through with it without offering themselves a lot of secondary options. The Cardinals have better fifth starters this year than they did second basemen last year, but even as we speak I can sense that John Mozeliak is preparing to acquire Adam Kennedy, declare him the de facto fifth starter, and then dump him.
In the Schumaker sense, Kyle McClellan looks and feels more like a starter than a reliever. He's got a bunch of different pitches, and none of them is a blistering fastball or a ridiculous platoon-advantage slider; he doesn't wear funny goggles or cultivate a funny beard. In a less aesthetic sense, he's got the kind of skill-set—average strikeout rate, less-than-perfect control—that will never turn him into a first-rate, highly leveraged reliever, but might allow him to become a valuable starting pitcher for a few years. It's not like he's Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain—the thing we're certain he's able to do isn't so valuable.
In Erik's positive take at Play a Hard Nine he mentions, in passing, the related problem the 2010 Cardinals will face if and when Kyle McClellan becomes a reliever—the awkward way it forces them to utilize the rest of their limited resources. McClellan is, somehow, one of the Cardinals' best remaining relievers, and inasmuch as less-than-nails relievers can have track records his is pretty good; worse still, the other in-house candidates for fifth starter are both left-handed, and unlikely to stick in his place. In the P-D piece McClellan talks about how he was reticent to root for his spot in the rotation in 2009:
McClellan would start only if Chris Carpenter could not. No one, McClellan especially, wanted that deal.
"I didn't want to start last year," McClellan explained Friday following a morning workout at Roger Dean Stadium, where pitchers and catcher are due to report Feb. 17.
In 2009 Kyle McClellan's status in the starting rotation was a referendum on Chris Carpenter's health. This year it's still not just about Kyle McClellan, although I can understand how he'd be more enthusiastic to pitch despite this year's circumstances than 2009's. It's an in-house challenge trade: Kyle McClellan the starter in exchange for Jaime Garcia the starter and Kyle McClellan the reliever.
Few people like Kyle McClellan the reliever less than I do, and I've been that way for a long time; I'd love for him to be expendable, and I'd love even more for him to be the reasonably effective starter he's always looked like. But Jaime Garcia isn't, or at least won't be, a reliever, and the exact reluctance to spend money that might land McClellan a starting job is also making it more difficult to guess at his replacement.
#
Requisite Super Bowl discussions:
- I was happy to see New Orleans win, even though, as a Numbers Guy, I have long been a fan of Peyton Manning, who was always the A-Rod to Tom Brady's Jeter and who also has the rare gift of making SNL funny. The game itself was my kind of football, too, lots of passing and minimal clock stoppage. As someone who cringes whenever Zatarains commercials come on, though, let this please be the death of WHO DAT.
- My favorite commercial was the Intel robot ad, though I also appreciated the Green Police Audi commercial. It was a thin crop, though, because the other commercials were divided into two completely unrewarding themes: people who drink beer are sociopaths with no other interests or hobbies; men who are married are henpecked and have no joy left to take from this living hell, save for driving a Dodge Charger and enjoying, in a completely superficial way, the sacred game of football.
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dan
even if he doesn’t earn it, do you think mcclellan could win the 5th spot merely by default?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Why should he get it if he doesn't earn it?
Earning it, in this case, just means being the least sucky of the options. If Rich Hill dominates in spring training or Blake Hawksworth comes to camp, unexpectedly, as the world’s greatest knuckleballer, why would you just give McClellan the spot anyway? It’s not like he’s the only option (not that the options are that thrilling).
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
i don't think that's what he means
i think he meant that if jaime gets reinjured, blake can’t get anyone out, rich hill is still injured, etc. then only option we have left is mcclellan, and he would get that spot just by being himself, which isn’t very good, but is still better than everyone else. basically PK redux
R.P.O.F.Y.M.
So...
…if everyone is hurt or ineffective except McClellan, he’ll get the spot?
Frankly, I think that’s sort of totally obvious. Just like if everyone is hurt or ineffective except [insert any candidate for the 5th starter spot here], that guy will get the spot “by default.”
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
Maybe, I think?
cardball was asking if it’s already assumed by the FO (and maybe TLR) that he will get the spot- so that it’s his to lose, rather than having to compete to win it.
the likely hood that all those others happen though
I think Jaime not being fully healed, same with Hill and Hawks reverting to a pumpkin are much more likely than KMac blowing a shoulder out. Though it could happen I think that is what he was getting at.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
yes
this is what i meant. i’m just wondering if we would say oh well and accept a sucky mcclellan just because it’s all we got, or would we frickin’ sign smoltz (or somebody)?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
What about the pen picking up K-Mac?
Somehow, I just don’t see K-Mac giving you many quality starts, and I don’t see even the occasional Anthony Reyes dominant game from nowhere. I’d be concerned about the impact on the pen trying to pick up the pieces. Seems like Welly to me. I’ve also believed K-Mac was better first time through an order – any numbers on him in that regard?
SD
KMac starting really scares me
The guy’s breaking stuff is alright, but his control last year was poor to say the least. He also had some BABIP luck, though not in Franklin territory. The other thing is that he’s not started in years. Can his arm even stand it anymore?
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 8, 2010 8:43 AM EST reply actions
me too
I don’t think he has the endurance to be a starter… that said, I think Garcia, him, Hill, and Boggs should be given a shot at the 5th starter spot. although I’d rather see Boggs and Kmac outta the ’pen, so my bias is that it should be Garcia or Hill
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I See...
…nothing wrong with competition at the 5th spot; and if he stretches to be a starter and ends up a reliever its not so bad. Preparing to be a reliever and being used as a starter is bad, not the udder way around. I think its win/win. Let’ see what the kid can do.
:=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
5th starter
My view has always been that the 5th starter is a tryout position. Of course they should McClellan a shot, and if it doesn’t work out they should give Garcia a shot at holding down the spot.
I also like the idea that the relief pitcher tag is not branded on the bullpen guys. How many teams are willing to give relievers a shot in the rotation?
I'd amend this to say
the fifth starter is a “rotating” position. Or at least it could be. I would very much like to see Garcia as the fifth starter by the end of the year, but between youth and injury history, I’m not at all happy about the idea of him being the fifth starter for the entire season. Let K-Mac get 10 or 12 starts while Senor G is doing long relief to get the bugs out and hold his inning total down, then swap them. That’s a plan I can definitely get behind.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 8, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
Anyone know for sure how Garcia pronounces his first name?
Is it Jay-mee, or HI-mee?
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
"It's Spelled Raymond Luxury Yacht...
…but its pronounced Throat Warbler Mangrove…"
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Feb 8, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The combination of Carpenter, Wainwright and Pineiro for 639 innings
covered for a lot of really bad pitching on the roster otherwise. I think we’re in for a nasty surprise on the mound this year both in the rotation (Carpenter’s arm, Penny’s arm, bad 5th starter) and in the pen (Franklin, motley crew of bad middle relievers). Jaime Garcia and Eduardo Sanchez can’t get here fast enough.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
by azruavatar on Feb 8, 2010 8:50 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I don't disagree or refute anything here, az
I just think this is the pessimistic point of view, not the realistic one. Realistically, Carpenter was really good last year despite one freak injury while swinging a bat, Lohse was banged up for the first time in his career but looked like the ’08 Lohse in April, and Penny pitched very, very well when he proved he was healthy at the end of the year.
Let’s put it this way — do we really think that Lohse and KMac/Garcia/Boggs in the last two rotation spots is going to be WORSE than the Lohse/Wellemeyer/Boggs/Walters/Hawksworth combination from last year? Barring injuries I just can’t see that being the case.
I think that your bullpen worries are justified, although I think that whoever doesn’t get the fifth starter spot can help in the bullpen, save Garcia. I even think that Walters could be a decent middle reliever since he could feature just his goofy changeup and high 80’s fastball and could probably fool some hitters for an inning at a time. He has more out pitches that can get punch outs than Brad Thompson ever even thought about having.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Alternatively
I suppose you could also argue that most other contenders in the NL are in exactly the same boat – even the Phillies’ rotation will look a bit weak beyond the top 2 if Halladay gets hurt (which admittedly isn’t that likely), the Cubs have a bit more depth than we do but there’s production and ageing concerns in their rotation and a sucky bullpen to worry about, the Dodgers have two aces, a potentially injured 3rd starter, and then questionable/poor options at 4 and 5 (with limited depth).
I would say that 2 aces (albeit one with higher-than-average risk of injury), 2 roughly average (probably slightly above) starters, and a question mark in the 5th spot is still among the best rotations in the NL.
I agree with Az about the pen, however, but that is one of the easier areas of a team to drastically improve with a lucky year (Franklin & Springer 2007, for instance) or by spending some money or making a trade during the season.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 9, 2010 6:15 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty much in agreement...
I just don’t think our options at the fifth rotation spot are all that bad. Obviously if we have injuries to multiple pitchers in our top 4 rotation spots, we’re going to have a difficult time winning baseball games, but isn’t that pretty much true for every team? You can only hedge your bets so much, at some point you just have to roll the dice and hope there aren’t any big injuries.
The bullpen is easily upgradeable. My biggest concern with this current team is what to do if Freese stinks up the joint offensively. There aren’t a lot of good options to trade for or sign at this point, Tyler Greene would probably be good defensively there, but would probably be just as bad offensively. The org doesn’t think that Craig can handle the position defensively, and his MLE’s really aren’t much better than Freese’s are. Descalso could probably play over there (he did in college), but he didn’t show that he was ready at AAA last year. We’re probably more dependent on Freese being better than replacement level than we are on any other of our question marks in the rotation or bullpen.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
if kmac makes the rotation,
i see sanchez starting the year with the big club. otherwise, he’ll show up sometime in ’10 regardless
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I think Parise could get that gig with a good spring
And don’t forget our knuckleballer and lefty swingman who will be competing for a longman use as well.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I could see Jukich being the longman
ahead of options like Zink or even Hawksworth, simply because we have to give him back to the Reds if he doesn’t make the roster, and he’s probably no better or worse than any of the other options.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 9, 2010 6:17 AM EST up reply actions
Because...
We had a great fifth starter last year?
by Mulliganstew on Feb 8, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
a coffin full of doritos
He took. It out.
by flipthebird15 on Feb 8, 2010 9:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
That WOULD be a miracle
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Throw in some olives and you win. Or lose, depending on how we're looking at this.
Forget it, spants. It's Chinatown. - tom s.
They have got to make
bacon doritos… Just imagine it in Albertofstan’s streets!
I want the Walrus back...
I preferred the one about the guy who steals the Dorito's bag
from another guy’s locker.
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Dorito shuriken!
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Feb 8, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yah
and the Dorito attack costume…awesome (even though I hate doritos).
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
good reply
bad commercial
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 8, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.
We need Smoltz. He just seems like he brings so much to the table for us and it makes so much sense for us to sign him, but it’s not my money…
word is
he’s waiting until mid season. and he wants to remain a cardinal. bad. so i see it as a distinct possibility that if our 5th starter spot falls off the earth my june or so, smoltz comes in like the cavalry (or is it calvary? i never can remember)
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Feb 8, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It's "cavalry"
/now wondering where my old Stetson is
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 8, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Funny that a prophet keeps saying calvary.
A rec for you my friend.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
all i know
is one has something to do with jesus and the has to do with bears
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Bears?
I’m pretty sure it’s the Flames.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
$10M that Ben Sheets got...
I’m not sure we can do that, but I’d guess that’s what he’s gunning for right now…
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I don't think ANYONE can do that
seriously, does any team have $10m sitting around unspent right now?
I think the decent leftover guys (Smoltz, Branyan, Lopez) are going to have to swallow some pride and accept ~$5m deals somewhere, especially if they’re vaguely choosey about where they want to end up…
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 9, 2010 6:18 AM EST up reply actions
He asked how much he could possibly cost...
and I think he’s probably looking for a deal similar to what Sheets got or he would have signed by now.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
wow
i’d be really surprised if smoltz was thinking he could get that much. sheets signed pretty recently, so you think smoltzie has been looking for 10 mil all along?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Too much inexperience in the bullpen from the right side!
I worry that our RH relief will be the downside to the Cardinals team this year. I definitely agree that the large amount of innings thrown by our starters last year helped hide the fact that the bullpen isnt very good. I just hope that Boggs and Motte do well and prove me wrong
Agree on the inexperience but
moving McClelland to the rotation likely opens a spot in the bullpen – hopefully, we sign Colero or Springer or someone of that ilk to give us a little more experience on the right side
Yay fangraphs splits
Pujols has hit .374 .485 .753 in High Leverage……for his career in 514 PAs.
Not afraid to nitpick
When they expand their minor league statistical offerings
I will officially* be useless at work.
*Unofficially, I’m useless now.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
+1 again
iPhone = txting, IMing, Kindle, Facebook, textsfromlastnight.com, no firewall surfing = useless @ work.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
His rate stats against righties are already Pujolsian
I don’t know what to call his stats against lefties. Bondsian? Hornsbian? I believe his wOBA at home in 2009 was .450, whereas away it was only .448.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
He IS ricockulous!
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I don't mind...
keeping some powder dry for July, but what happens when one of the Big Four goes down in May? I suppose Garcia could be ok for a few starts, but after that we’re into Boggs and PJ Walters territory.
Rotation depth is such an obvious Achilles’ heel for us, they’ve got to be working on something.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
that's really what frightens me
about this year – things are fine if the big 4 stay healthy, but….
What frightens me about
McLellan is his drop in performance as the season progresses. This might be due to overuse or simply fatigue but his performance has seen a significant drop after the all-star game. In his career, his SO/BB rate decreased from 2.15 to 1.44. His BAA went from .233 to .282 and his OPS Against went from .647 to .755
I know, small sample size. But still, I do believe it plays a key factor in this decision. Is there enough gas in his arm to hold out for 100 more innings than in is previous two seasons?
I want the Walrus back...
yeah
I really don’t think he can make it a season as a starter, I think he’ll either get injured or just keep getting more ineffective as the season goes along.
/gut feeling
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Green police
I’m surprised you enjoyed the Green Police commercial because I felt like I’ve met those kind of enviros before where you’re a bad person if you use a foam cup. If anything it made me never want to own their car. It was funny, but was a little too preachy. I always prefer the non-political commercials. Coffin full of Doritos was ok, but like you said, he had to fake his own death to get what he wants because he’s henpecked?
After that Dodge Charger commercial I looked over at my wife and said, this is a depressing commercial. Very disappointing game, and very disappointing commercials.
Doritos at least brought the funny, because I loved the Dog -Shock collar commercial. Don’t tease a dog with Doritos, it’s a lesson everyone can learn I guess.
OT: The irony of the foam cup thing
Is that it takes thousands of times more energy to make a coffee mug than it does to make a foam cup. And unless you are living in a Northeast state that isn’t anywhere near New Jersey, there’s plenty of landfill space.
The Megan Fox commercial wins it for me.
Not afraid to nitpick
I liked the Betty White Snickers commercial
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
by jd is legend on Feb 8, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Is that it takes thousands of times more energy to make a coffee mug than it does to make a foam cup.
I realise you were going for hyperbole here, but that’s grossly inaccurate. Regardless of manufacturing process, the vast majority of energy used in producing either of them will be in extracting & processing the raw materials and delivering the final good to you.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 8, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
We're having...
a society-wide temper tantrum because it has been suggested that 20th century practices can’t be extended indefinitely. How are the British taking this news?
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
Somewhat better, I guess
though our society in general is definitely more left-leaning and receptive to arguments from the green movement.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 9, 2010 6:19 AM EST up reply actions
"Landfill space"
It’s called the ocean:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_garbage_patch
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
it would be interesting to go into the future to see how this might effect the ecology of the ocean
and what types of mutations might occur, or maybe garbage island will take on a sentience of its own
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Hopefully...
it will somehow settle to the bottom and be buried for all time. Unfortunately it floats.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
Maybe Godzilla and Mothra and Rodan will live there happily
We could be doing gigantic mutated monsters an invaluable service.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Rodan? Hmmmmm....
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 9, 2010 6:20 AM EST up reply actions
how could a superbowl that features an onside kick to start out the 2nd half be disappointing?
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
unless he's a colts fan, i don't understand the "disappointing," either
there were barely any penalties, one turnover, the game was fast and well-played, and it wasn’t decided until the end of the fourth quarter. that was an incredible super bowl.
"I think he's the best hitter of all time. I think there has never been a better hitter than him. And I know I didn't see them all, but I just don't think there could be." - Adam Wainwright on The Mang
yup
I couldn’t even finish my 6 pack before that game ended!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
well
at least they were tallboys
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
and I had eaten some Chicago style pizza
that stuff makes it hard to drink, it’s like having lead in your gut
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
mmmm
But it’s the tastiest lead you’ve ever eaten in your life!
yup
and it was from Pequod’s, which features carmelized cheese on the crust and the crust taste like homemade pizza
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Why wasn't that Dodge ad at least for the Challenger?
The Charger is meh.
Forget it, spants. It's Chinatown. - tom s.
That's exactly what I was thinking
I don’t even know that much about cars. But the Challenger would have fit better with the ridiculous commercial.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The Green Police ad
Made me want to buy a Hummer.
And drink my latte from a foam cup while I drive it.
Play ball!
by IL and StL Fan on Feb 8, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
reminds me of this
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Resident malcontented betamale
by slu on Feb 8, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
if i felt THAT fucking oppressed by life,
i would want something a LOT better than a dodge fucking charger.
"It doesn't have to be terribly prolific! Just so that it isn't childish and silly." She reflected. "I prefer stories about squalor." J.D.S.
by tom s. on Feb 8, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
daddy
kills people
In what St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa called a "big day" for his club, starter Chris Carpenter took the mound for his first session of live batting practice and promptly buzzed the fuzz on catcher Jason LaRue’s chin with an errant fastball.
"Sorry," Carpenter called from the mound.
"Don’t say you’re sorry," LaRue barked back.
"He said it," pitching coach Dave Duncan said from the side of the cage, "but he didn’t mean it."
~ DG
I thought it was a commercial for suicide.
by Mister Eff on Feb 8, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Either that or prostitution.
"What's your favorite Chuck Palahniuk book?"
"I like the one about the alienated character who finds the socially unacceptable way of coping with modernity."
by hazel on Feb 8, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It was.
They just tried to make you think it wasn’t.
Make way for the Homo Superior.
by the red baron on Feb 9, 2010 3:38 AM EST up reply actions
See, I thought it was more of a small penis commercial.
Which explains the Charger.
Forget it, spants. It's Chinatown. - tom s.
It may be cliche by now, idk
But the Brett Favre Hyundai commercial was awesome.
In what St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa called a "big day" for his club, starter Chris Carpenter took the mound for his first session of live batting practice and promptly buzzed the fuzz on catcher Jason LaRue’s chin with an errant fastball.
"Sorry," Carpenter called from the mound.
"Don’t say you’re sorry," LaRue barked back.
"He said it," pitching coach Dave Duncan said from the side of the cage, "but he didn’t mean it."
~ DG
That was a good one
but my favorite was Letterman/Oprah/Leno…and I can’t stand Leno or Oprah
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 8, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
That one actually surprised me
I was sick last night, didn’t make it out to my friends’ party. I was by myself and actually said “wow” out loud when I saw Leno.
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
Apparently, there's rumors that they might use that commercial again next year.
Stay tuned for more updates.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 9, 2010 6:22 AM EST up reply actions
I thought the green police commercial was funny
But I guess I’m less offended by the political statement than people here seem to be. Then again, I live in San Francisco, where people are much more mindful of that thing anyway. For what it’s worth, and without getting overly political, I think that there are a whole lot of ways in which people could be more green with almost zero effort, and it sort of annoys me that they aren’t. On the other hand, buying a car isn’t near the top of that last, and Audi’s really just trying to cash in on the “go green” cultural phenomenon.
All of that aside, though, I thought the commercial was funny.
I also liked the Google commercial, and I thought the Dodge commercial was darkly funny as well. Rather than taking it as depressing, I took it as a shot at dark humor, and thus was able to enjoy it.
I really think the beer and chip commercials were generally pretty blegh. They were (as they always are) cheap humor that made me a little depressed thinking about how these companies viewed their target audience of horny men in unrewarding jobs and unhappy marriages.
Okay, no more rambling about OT stuff. Moving on with life.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
by mojowo11 on Feb 8, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Google commercial was great imo
Low production cost, effective at conveying how much Google is in our ****ing lives, and made me shed lots of manly man-tears
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
in typical google fashion
they had a lot of data to pick that as their commercial to air. It’s been a big hit on youtube for a few months.
by brackenthebox on Feb 8, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
I've read the most green thing to do with car purchasing
is to buy a used car
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting
That said, here’s an idea; let’s take used cars and crush them into tiny cubes instead with taxpayer money.
OK, I’m stopping, sorry…
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I've got an idea!
Let’s all break the community guidelines in the name of internet superiority!
Forget it, spants. It's Chinatown. - tom s.
McClellan's walk rate is scary.
His BB/9 jumped from 3.09 in ‘08 to 4.59 in ’09. The projections that are free on Fangraphs give range of 3.57-3.68 as K-Mac’s projected BB/9 in 2010, but that won’t look good for a fifth starter.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Actually
That would be pretty good for a fifth starter. The league average BB/9 for starting pitchers last year was 3.20, and that’s for all starters. So an effective 5th starter could walk around 3.6 per 9. Would I consider it optimal? No, but getting the optimal results from a fifth starter would cost more than the benefits we would receive.
I think we keep making the mistake of thinking that we need a #3 starter in the #5 starter position. We don’t. We, as a franchise, never have with the exception of maybe 2003 or 2004. If our #5 starter is league average, that would be HUGE. If he’s at least a half win better than replacement level and makes his starts every 5th day, that would be sufficient. You’re only going as far as the top 3 starters are going to take you, so throwing $10M at John Smoltz to be a fifth starter would be a really bad idea. Sure, he probably is the 4th starter and Lohse becomes the fifth, but it still only makes our pitching staff marginally better. We have to stop praying for our fifth starter to be twice as good as every other teams fifth starter — only the high payroll teams can afford to do that.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
Don't you think that he'll walk more people as a starter?
I kind of do. All I want is someone as watchable as Suppan. I think K-Mac might be Wellemeyer without the Ks. Or, as I like to call him, 2009 Toddalion.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 8, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Not more per 9 innings
Why would you think that? Isn’t that why we measure things per 9? I actually think he might walk fewer per 9 as a starter, because he’ll have more innings pitched.
Look at the average BB/9 for relievers (3.95) and then for starters (3.20) in 2009 — it’s pretty clear that relievers have a higher BB/9. Non-scientifically, if McClellan’s were to reduce by the difference of the league average, he’d have a BB/9 as a starter of around 2.9 or so, which would be better than league average and a wee bit higher than Kyle Lohse’s BB/9 was last year (2.8).
I don’t see any reason to predict his per 9 walk rate to go up — if anything, it’s more likely to go down based on the data at hand.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
I think as a starter
You get into more of a groove. Until you get fatigued, it’s a bit easier to find the zone after you’ve thrown a couple dozen pitches against live batters already, and you have some iron-out time as opposed to the 1-inning role.
In what St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa called a "big day" for his club, starter Chris Carpenter took the mound for his first session of live batting practice and promptly buzzed the fuzz on catcher Jason LaRue’s chin with an errant fastball.
"Sorry," Carpenter called from the mound.
"Don’t say you’re sorry," LaRue barked back.
"He said it," pitching coach Dave Duncan said from the side of the cage, "but he didn’t mean it."
~ DG
I gotta think it's possible that
the BB/9 innings is better for starters because they’re better pitchers. In other words, they can start because their walk rates are lower, rather than their walk rates are lower because they’re starters.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
There's plenty of evidence that a pitcher's performance is likely to decrease when starting instead of relieving
I don’t know the numbers for BB/9 specifically, but I think the average pitcher adds 3/4-1 run to their ERA when starting relative to relieving. Some of that is presumably a result of context, but I’m pretty sure that raw numbers tend to decline as well.
The league walk rates for starters and relievers is a meaningless comparison because they are different pools of players. Starters as a group are better than relievers as a group.
by brackenthebox on Feb 8, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Sean Smith did a study on pitchers from 1953 up to 2008, and found that when switching from starting to relief and vice-versa, a pitcher’s walk rate would stay static, while their hits went +/- 5%, their homers went +/- 15%, and their strikeouts went +/- 16%.
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
That's the study I was looking for
I knew I’d read that somewhere, but I couldn’t remember who it was that did the analysis.
Thanks.
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
There's conflicting evidence
in this regard. Nate Silver did a similar study and found a significant change in walk rate was evidenced.
Think; It's not illegal yet.
not surprising that this would be a tough thing to study
and lead to conflicting results. There’s got to be one hell of a selection bias when looking at players who changed roles year-to-year.
by brackenthebox on Feb 9, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
I still find really inherent bias in these relief-to-starter/starter-to-relief studies
and I’m not really sure how they (or even whether they) attempt to correct for it in some way.
That is, neither group is fairly selected. Starters who transition into relief are usually going to be starters who suck at starting (for various reasons, for instance, lack of a third pitch, poor stamina, injury, serious platoon problems on one side of the plate) and lose their jobs due to that fact. Relievers who suck at relieving are rarely going to be converted into starters. Starters who are very good at starting will almost never transition into relief, whereas some good pitchers when they come up (say, Phil Hughes, Adam Wainwright or Joba Chamberlain or whoever) will spend time as effective relievers before transitioning into starters.
Furthermore, the necessary skill set for the two groups can be quite different – there are very few even high-end relievers (maybe the likes of Joakim Soria and perhaps Papelbon aside) who have the potential skillset to be above-average starters, but then again there are also numerous averagey starters who probably don’t have the skills to be more than average relievers (anyone think Tim Wakefield’s FIP changes any when he moves into the pen?).
Finally, the biggest problem IMO if you’re looking at an overall body of work by value (i.e. production over a total span of innings) is that the bias in terms of looking at “starters who became relievers” skews heavily towards those who threw at a lower level of production as starters and a higher level of production as relievers; those are the guys in this category who’ll have by far the most innings, as the ones who were decent starters will stay as starters for most of their careers, and the ones who were as poor in relief as they were in the rotation will quickly find themselves out of work.
I just don’t see how these studies can be scientifically rigorous, and despite having posed this question over at FanGraphs in the thread where people were arguing about WAR under-valuing relievers, no-one (including those who believed that WAR has it spot on, the Sky Kalkmans and Dave Camerons) could provide me with an answer. I am more than happy to be corrected about this if my supposition ism’t factually accurate, but I’m assuming until then it is.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 9, 2010 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
To expand
I think making an educated guesstimate on individual cases based on the characteristics of the case itself is more useful than applying a fairly ephemeral “average adjustment” from transitioning from one role to the other, which is prone to huge selection bias and possibly enormous case-to-case variance (i.e. big error bars, even over a huge sample size).
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 9, 2010 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
I think the "right" study for this case
is to look at pitchers making the same transition as McClellan. For all the reasons you discussed, there are lots of reasons that one might convert one way or the other, any of which are going to lead to biases. If you just look at youngish (<30?) players converting for the first time from a relief to starting role, I’d tend to trust the data more. Even within this group, it’s a bit dicey because you’ll have growth curves mucking things up, but hopefully there’s some sweet spot where you have enough data and a still have a fairly homogenous population.
by brackenthebox on Feb 9, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
agree
I’d go even farther and say pitchers at age x with peripherals x, y, and z. But, unfortunately, you get into issues of sample size. Which comes full circle back to monk’s (imho correct) comment about it being impossible to rigorously study this.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -J Cale
also, it has to be considered-
the role of the pitcher in the minors and how successful they were in that role. If I remember right, KMac hasn’t started very recently at all. I don’t know if that would be a strike against him or not, but guys who fall into this camp are probably pretty few and far between.
well thought
i had planned to think about that one myself, but you saved me a lot of time. and, i’m also going to assume your supposition is correct.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Give up 2 walks in an inning as a releiver, you get pulled
as a starter you might stay in, I can see how it would be easier to have a lower BB/9 as a starter simply because you get more chances to get more IP after you give out a couple BB where a releiver won’t get much more at all and will probably be pulled in an inning or two regardless.
"Come test me every day if you want," says Pujols, "Everything I ever made in this game I would give back to the Cardinals if I got caught."
Wellemeyer always had control problems at every professional level
2009 was KMac’s worst year in the pros, including minor leagues, BY FAR. I think we may be reading a bit too much into his poor performance finding the plate last year because it doesn’t signify a trend that he’s been plagued by control problems. If anything, it’s been the opposite in the minors
Can Colby round out our new MV3?
from what i've read
among relievers converting to starters, their walk rate stays about constant. i think that was covered in the PaH9 piece that danup links to
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I stand corrected.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 8, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 8, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Looper is
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
i would definitely take a flyer on wang
but i question the clubs trust in his health if they signed hill over him
or maybe he just wants to much dollas
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
As long as it isn't to expensive
I see no excuse for not grabbing Wang
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
by TomCat009 on Feb 8, 2010 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
wang would nicely slide into the back end of any duncan rotation
especially considering wang’s ability to have hitters pound balls into the ground
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Feb 8, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
DD could do amazing things with Wang
I mean sure he would surely put Wang in the back end to begin with but with a little patience it wouldn’t surprise me to see Wang in the 3 Hole
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
by TomCat009 on Feb 8, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah,
with a little work, he could definitely get wang back up to that level
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Feb 8, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I mean who wouldn't want to put Wang into Duncan's hands
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
by TomCat009 on Feb 9, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
haha, okay
if i were even able to top that, i doubt i could look myself in the mirror tomorrow
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Feb 9, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
in all honesty DD
would be an Ideal situation the Taipei kid has a lot of potential as an inning eater and even more as a pinata like resurrection
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
If the back end isn't the 3-hole, then what is?
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 9, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If I have to draw you a picture...
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
As I have had to tell more than one young lady
Ummm, I don’t really believe in obligation sorry about that.
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
So, "pic or it didn't happen" kinda deal?
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
See the link
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
Also why were there so many commercials with men in their saggy underwear?
My favorite was the kid slapping the guy for dating his mom and eating his Doritos. But the robot commercial was good too. It got an Awwwww…
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I liked the one with all the toys dancing around
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, that was my favorite part I think
although the monkey was cool too. my one friend has a blog where he posts mainly about robots and monkeys, I’ll bet he loved that commercial!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, that was funny, and
I liked the music. A British band called The Heavy. I got their cd just a couple weeks ago and it rocks.
KMac
I really can’t get terribly excited about him either way, somehow. I think he’ll be meh in the pen, meh in the rotation.
I just think a contending team needs to do better, really. I also worry that, although he has a nice curveball and a useful ability to get lefties out, losing a couple of mph on his fastball (by moving to starter work) will turn an already poor pitch into a really bad one, and I’m just not sure his control and secondary stuff is good enough to compensate. I don’t think he’d be any better than, say, Blake Hawksworth, which is to say, pretty near replacement level.
I just can’t see why we haven’t signed a serviceable 5th starter or another bullpen arm. I agree with azru above, that is, we could be in for a fairly rough season, pitching-wise. I’m pretty confident that our bullpen is going to be fairly bad.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
that's the thing
K-Mac is really a LOOGY despite his handedness, but we already have 2 LOOGYs. what to do, what to do
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
he gives up over a .315 OBP vs lefties and righties
and most situational relievers (ROOGys and LOOGys) are much better than that. He’s also had quite a lot of BABIP luck vs lefties – his K/BB rate is actually better against righties, as is his FIP, even though his ERA and OPS-against is better (so far) vs lefties.
He’s OK on both sides, though, and seems to have the skills required to start from that point of view, although I’m not sure he has the stamina, and I dunno if he’ll be able to succeed 2nd or 3rd time through the order. I guess we’ll see if he wins the #5 job…
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 8, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
fangraphs has his FIP split favoring LH (3.84/4.06)
but it’s entirely explained by a 2 percentage point difference in HR/FB, yielding an even xFIP split (4.26/4.20)
The point remains, he seems pretty much equally effective on both sides.
by brackenthebox on Feb 8, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
ah
there was some point where we were saying he was more like a LOOGY. I need to look at his stats after 2 seasons now…
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think that was in '08...
when he was better against lefties than either of our LOOGYs. Villone and Flores?
If you see a guy open the car door for his girlfriend, either the car is new or the girlfriend is.
exactly
plus, what else are you going to do with him?
meh is about right all round
he scares me in any leveraged situation because his control comes and goes so fast
seems they are maybe setting him up to be the new brad thompson, just in case jukich doesn’t pan out
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
look on the bright side
when the Cards make the playoffs, there will be no question who the four starters will be
so, in the playoffs
are you saying smoltz will start?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
if tony lets him
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
I think you mean if Smoltz lets Tony use him as closer
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
Disclaimer: This is hilarious but it is not pc
Hitler hates on the Cubs.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
I thought it was pretty funny
except for the part where it says that they wish chicago would burn to the ground, that’s pretty f’d up
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
I think that's a Chicago Fire joke
so it’s borderline funny.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Well it is Hitler
I don’t think anyone ever accused him of being moderate.
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
reply fail
"I learned a long time ago if you keep checking your stats all year, you're going to end up in the toilet." - Chris Carpenter, 2009.
seems noah lowry did audition
because the red sox attended and apparently weren’t impressed.
also, remember tabata, the pirate prospect via yanks who married the older woman, and dan linked to an article that detailed her misdeeds? now it appears he’s a bit closer to her age than thought. listed as 21, the gm acknowledges he may be in his mid-twenties.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Sorry....
…I just can’t get behind a pitcher named Noah. Maybe its my anti-clericalism getting the better of me, but then I cudn’t get behind a pitcher named Boof either.
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Feb 8, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Clearly your priorities are straight
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
Would You Trust your Brain Surgery ....
to a guy called Stinky Whistleteeth? I think not…
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
My blog for class
So, all juniors at my school are required to take an advanced writing class. The one that I arbitrarily picked is essentially a blogging class where we choose the topic of the blog and maintain it for the semester
There’s not much on it yet, just a required “Recommended Sites” post, but check it out. My focus is going to be a simple analysis of the advanced baseball statistics… Nothing mindblowing, but there will be a few pretty graphs up
Check it out… here
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
why isn't VEB on your "Recommended Sites"?
what a jerk!
Looks like it has potential though, so I will keep an eye on it.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I have come back to life
finally got my laptop back. Geek squad only had it for a month. Realized their mistake and fixed it for free with minimal fuss from me. When I got it, I found out my neighbor has wireless so I asked if he cared for me freeload off of him and he said no. Did I miss anything cool in the last month of VEB?
So, GDM, if that is your real name. . . you had mentioned some restaurants that I just have to try out down here in Hot Springs but I don’t remember what they are. Refresh my memory and I will be glad to try them out for you and report back with full details.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Well....
…you missed the big announcement that NERTLERB was finally being accepted in to the VEB lexicon…
;=8)
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
haven't seen gdm post in a while
other than that, you missed a few projections and a few things here and there, although lately things have been grinding to a halt…. bring on spring training!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
something awesome I learned recently
one of my classmates is on a clinical rotation in a sports PT clinic in Kentucky and he tells of a therapist there who worked with a certain Atlanta Braves drafted pitcher during his senior year of high school. The guy was in for pre-surgical rehab to have his UCL replaced (Tommy John Surgery). The therapist put the pitcher on his pitcher strenghtening program. Four weeks later when he had his pre-operative MRI, it was ruled that the pitcher did not require the surgery any longer. Instead of having the surgery, the pitcher increased his velocity from 88-89 to 94 and, as I mentioned, was drafted by the Atlanta Braves. The Braves used him as a trading chip to add an OFer and a back up catcher.
If you haven’t figured out who I’m talking about, he struck out Brandon Inge for the final out of the 06 World Series.
If you still haven’t figured it out, its Adam Wainwright.
What this means: Our own Adam Wainwright pitches, presumably, without a UCL. This is even further evidence that you should not worry about Albert Pujols’ elbow.
*disclaimer: even though this sounds like speculation, I completely trust the guy who is giving me this information to be truthful. If anyone is stretching the truth, it would be the PT he is working with. But, the guy has no reason to lie about it and he apparently has a reputation for being someone you want working with you if you have elbow problems.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
hippa -- it aint just a river-dwelling mammal in africa.
"It doesn't have to be terribly prolific! Just so that it isn't childish and silly." She reflected. "I prefer stories about squalor." J.D.S.
its hipaa
there’s more information floating around about athletes injuries, past and present than what I’ve shared here. I wouldn’t think this is something that ADAM doesn’t want people to know, his experience with this guy basically launched him into his professional career.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Not so much
Just because a guy needs Tommy John does not mean he’s completely blown the ligament. A lot of the times it’s a judgment call but I believe it’s accepted that if a guy has >20% tear of the ligament, you should replace it. This is why you see guys so frequently try to “rehab” and see if they can survive with their partial tear. I’d imagine virtually every MLB pitcher has tearing in their elbows and shoulders…..their arms hurt for a reason, and I guarantee off the top of my head that say Johan Santana, Beckett and Lackey are pitching with some sort of elbow tears. Waino probably has a partial tear that he has to continually maintain with those strengthening exercises.
Not afraid to nitpick
agree
I was going off of what he said. Doesn’t make sense that it would be completely ruptured because there would have to be some instability and pain. The interesting thing is, they addressed the problem by addressing his mechanics. According to what the guy is teaching, the force is transferred to other areas (front leg, trunk) and taken off of the elbow, thus decreasing the importance of the UCL. Waino keeps the same mechanics, which decreases the risk of further injuring the UCL.
Interesting, they are working with a kid right now that has a torn UCL and they are confident that the kid isn’t going to have to have Tommy John. Here is the reference to an article he used that states that 42% of their participants returned to previous level of sport without having surgery:
Rettig, A.C., Sherrill, C., Snead, D.S., Mendler, J.C., and Mieling, P. Nonoperative treatment of ulnar collateral ligament injuries in throwing athletes. 2001. AM J SPORTS MED. Jan-Feb; 29(1): 15-7.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Can we just platoon that 5th Spot?
Not sure how effective this would be, but I wonder if the answer is just using K-Mac in combination with Garcia throughout the year. Jaime probably has higher upside. Using McClellan to limit Garcia’s innings seems like the best of both worlds.
Or is this just crazy-talk?
i think something like this is inevitable
unless every cub fans’ worst nightmare comes true
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
You guys are talking like this is a negative
I’ve got no problem with Garcia getting say, 100 IPs in the majors this year, provided he gets to the end of the year healthy. This positions us well for 2011 when Garcia becomes (perhaps) the #3-4 pitcher. K-Mac then moves into the role long occupied by Puppy Kicker.
by JWO on Feb 8, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
nah
i have no inherent problems with kmac being the 5th starter up to the all star break and garcia taking over after that. just saying, i don’t see any of them clocking 150-200 IP
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
risking another lost service year
of garcia’s 0-3 affordable seasons, before he makes 10 to 12 starts in aaa in 2010, is too much gamble for me.
i agree, 2nd half call-up for jaime.
Can't we just pick up Brandon Backe?
I don’t want to face him again.
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
the Brewers must be really hard up to get another statue
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 4:57 PM EST reply actions
gotta pay your respects to the bud selig statue
because of his amazing career
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
selling used cars?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
that could be the public urination mecca of the midwest
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Not if Soulard has anything to say about it.
by Mister Eff on Feb 8, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
or the alleys in wrigleyville
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 8, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
Where's the outrage?
The man who was a silent accomplice throughout the Steroids Era gets a statue in Milwaukee and there isn’t an anti-steroid diatribe to be found on it? Oh, wait. I’m sorry. I forgot that this whole PED thing is all Mark McGwire’s fault.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Feb 8, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
agreed!
Both LaRussa and McGwire are now under fire for steroids, while other managers (Torre sticks out most in my mind) and Selig are not… how the hell does it work that way? I just don’t get it. I honestly do not understand while Selig has not come under more fire for the Steroids Era. Got to love this country and the way people can chose to chastize one or two people, while looking the other way for others.
You see because Mark McGwire actually hypnotized the entire baseball world into believing that steroids actually didn't exist.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Feb 8, 2010 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No one cares because Bud Selig didn't break any home run records while using steroids
Seriously, it’s not that hard to figure out.
1. Mark McGwire used steroids to hit more home runs than he could have naturally and thereby broke important, longstanding home run records. (Outrage)
2. Bud Selig didn’t do those things. (No outrage)
Seems like a perfectly respectable distinction to make.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 8, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
still seems like an exercise in cognitive dissonance
to excoriate one and exculpate the other.
And yes, I am on the “E’s” section of my word of the day calendar
sammy
sosa
came back and played,sort of, w/o juice?
little to no flack
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
como? que quiere decir "juice"? como el jugo de la naranja? no entiendo, mi amigo.
"It doesn't have to be terribly prolific! Just so that it isn't childish and silly." She reflected. "I prefer stories about squalor." J.D.S.
by tom s. on Feb 9, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sosa did get some flack but more to my point...what records did sammy sosa break and then hold?
by Willie McGee's Twin on Feb 9, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
"America's whitest ethnic minority"
June 25, 2009 – present.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 9, 2010 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
lol...Brandon Inge....
…watchin the 06 WS game 1. Sixth inning. 2 errors in one play.
The little things in life make me smile.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
you know what looks wierd?
Ankiel in blue.
I think McClellan can be a fine 5th starter. But I would rather see Garcia in that roll and McClellan back in the pen.
I'd rather not see Garcia show with any rolls
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Feb 8, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
its like the pre-packaged evil twins you see on tv
give him a soul pitch and you’ve got the whole package set.
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Resident malcontented betamale
by slu on Feb 8, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa
Is he wearing one of the Dumb and Dumber tuxes?
You know what they call a quarter pounder with cheese in France?
They can be the same thing
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
by TomCat009 on Feb 8, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you did at one point
come to think of it. Why is a human drinking milk meant for a cow less sick than a human drink milk meant for a human?
Speaking of Ankiel
erik’s post over at PaH9 is worth a gander, if only for this rather sad Ankiel graphic (linear weights of strike zone location by hitter):
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
How can you make millions when you can't hit something that is up in the zone
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
He looks somewhat sinister
or a bit like a puppet in a Gerry Anderson show…
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 9, 2010 6:32 AM EST up reply actions
Good for him.
And a nifty little back-up plan if something goes wrong with Mac.
Forget it, spants. It's Chinatown. - tom s.
Ladies 'n Gents...
Organizing my 1988 Fleer set and stumbled across this bad boy…
Also, I was 1.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
by vexedtechie on Feb 8, 2010 7:37 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Jack Clark's damn near rockin' a unibrow in it.
Also, 10 of the 25 Cardinals players in the set are rockin’ mustaches.
Note: Above comment may contain gratuitous amounts of sarcasm.
BOYCOTT HASS AVOCADOS
I remember those
I was about 12 or 13
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 8, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
88 is the year most of my 35000 cards were made
but theyre mostly Donruss and Topps
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher, 2010 watch it go to fire!
by First mammal to wear pants on Feb 8, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
organizing my cards is something i ought to do
i bet i have at least 5k just sitting in a box. Just imagine the number of Mickey Morandini rookie cards in there waiting to be found!
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Resident malcontented betamale
i have
a 1993 alex rodriguez card. i wonder if that’s better than a rookie card or not
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
i should just buy a beckett at some point
and see what some of my cards are worth
i think i have several pretty old manny cards, too
too bad all my cards that i was banking on being worth thousands in decades are all being outed as roid users
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I have an autographed Jordan MiLB picture
DEFINITELY worthless.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
I had a large series of cards from when I was a kid in the 60's
My mom threw them all out when we moved from St. Louis to Baltimore in the 70s. Didn’t speak to her for, like, two weeks….’til I needed some help in History.
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 9, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
When I was working at an auction house in Oregon a few years ago there was huge collection
of cards and signed pennants, like mays and mantle signed nothing went for more than 30 bucks I should have quit the job and went to bid
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
Well it looks like Skip finally signed
according to the Rotoworld thingy. Two year extension huh? I am guessing these are the last two years of his Cardinal career.
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
i'm pleasantly surprised by the second year
of course, it doesn’t necessarily mean it will be with the cards.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
that's what i'm thinking
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i'm confused
do we have a 2B in the minors that can replace skip? I’m not sure why he wouldn’t stay.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
I don't believe in belief.
Forget it, spants. It's Chinatown. - tom s.
by spants on Feb 8, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
not funny
I remember watching him in A ball and he wasn’t a big contact guy.
OT I guess
Since I live so close to a affiliate, would some video of Miller and Stock be desired?
yeah I was planning on doing it for awhile.
If I can catch the local tv game that’s on once in awhile I might be able to get a better angle as well.
I'm not really, either.
but that’s mostly because Strauss is always saying he’s so intrigued by descalso.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
so?
regardless of what i say, he’s still an elite defender
and i would be satisfied with a .700 OPS and plus-plus glove at 2B
‘course, i’m also a descalso proponent, so we may not find out about greene
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
probably descalso
i doubt he’s the .416 wOBA hitter he was in 300 PAs in AA, but i also don’t think he’s the .305 wOBA player he was the rest of the year in AAA
greene is definitely the better glove, with descalso around average. they’re probably comparable in overall value, but between boog and albert it’s okay to have a mediocre defensive 2B
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
if descalso is average with the glove
that’s a big plus for him – many rate him far below average.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
castillo
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
personally, though
i have no idea how he will field. seen him play a few times, and i think he’ll hit fine for a second baseman, but it’s easier to rate offense based on a few viewings than it is to rate that elusive beast known as defense. and there are varying opinions on dd’s d, but it seems those who’ve seen him most are most inclined to put him below average.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
well,
i’m basing my opinion on just a couple games watched. i could very well be wrong
but based on way too small a sample, his total zone seems about average. a bit above in ’09 and a bit below in ’07
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I thought they were doing a multi year....
it was the only reason it could have taken this long. I guessed 2/4 before, but I don’t think it would be for more than 5M.
* is an Asshat
Also, Dave Concepcion.
honestly
i’m surprised. i didn’t see any multi year deals coming
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
the fanpost says 2M & 2.75M
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
didn't mo say they wouldn't offer any players until both skip and luddy signed?
i bet we sign lopez before the end of the week.
"It doesn't have to be terribly prolific! Just so that it isn't childish and silly." She reflected. "I prefer stories about squalor." J.D.S.
magic 8-ball
says chances are good.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i read something about that the other day
the indians used the most (different) lineups in baseball last year, and the cards were about middle-of-the-road, as much as it seems to us otherwise.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
So, I'm starting a wordpress blog in order to agrigate my various baseball related posts and other musings
What should I call it?
vivaelmissingpants
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
by prophetjohn on Feb 8, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
vivaelstillputtingoffpennypitchf/xpost
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
vivaelburn
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
¿Dónde está mi Centavo?
just saying
Я виключаю ти, сука
by TomCat009 on Feb 8, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
our starting payroll last year was $94,498,500
before we took on Holliday’s and DeRosa’s contracts
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 8, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
in 2010 we have 12 guys making league min
by FlimtotheFlam on Feb 8, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
How many are from
our system, or played significant time….
/I should probably just wait for the FP.
* is an Asshat
Also, Dave Concepcion.
assuming you count freese,
all the guys making lg min are from the farm
i also assume he’ll be including guys like colby and kmac who will be making a bit more than lg min
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
more money available than expected!
i say we roll and see if we need anything by june, otherwise put the remaining $8.5MM in the pujols fund
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Not to abuse the corpse of our deceased equine friend
but maybe smoltzy or some other BP/Starter option, not to mention a super like Floppy would be in order.
Я виключаю ти, сука
yeah
that would fall into the “if we need someone” category
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
floppy won't for sure.
i can’t believe he hasn’t been signed yet.
"I knew they were up to shenanigans." --TLR
The guy just gets on base, has +speed and +defense
sadly he is not named Orlando
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
I count either 35 or 38 players currently on the 40-man roster
Anyone know if Walters, Mather and Stav-infection are on there? Trying to determine current possible make-up of 25-man based on what we have…obviously, #5 starter, 3B (sort of), bully replacement, 4th outfielder and 3rd MIF are still up in the air. What I have so far:
C Carp
A Waino
B Penny
Whata Lohser
- (K McClellan?) (J Garcia?)
M Boggs
R Franklin
B Gaw-Stab
T Miller
J Motte
D Reyes
(C Zink/M Parise/F Samuel)
Y Molina
J Alcantara
S Schumaker
(?)D Freese
B Ryan
M Lego-man
C Ramos
R Thudwick
J Pornstache
T Greene
J Lugo
(?)R Gotay
(?)A Craig
We mostly assume Freese, Craig is hopefully there, Gotay may or may not be, and if Garcia makes the rotation, then McClellan likely slots back in to the last bullpen spot. This also assumes only 12 pitchers (please!). Anyone I’m missing who could likely make the team, other than FAs still out there?
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2010 11:28 PM EST reply actions
Hunh.
Already forgot J Jay…
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
All three of them (Walters, Mather, Stav) are on the 40
Lighten up, Francis - Sergeant Hulka
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I think the official 40-man
Gotay isn’t on, but Sugar Shane is.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Feb 8, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
n/m
You’re building a 25-man, not speculating on the 40-man.
I never would slip you Mickey! It is merely rhinoceros horn. This makes the champagna bubble.
by The Continental on Feb 8, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I knew that
but I wasn’t necessarily basing the 25-man on current makeup of the 40-man. Zink’s not on there, either, nor Hill or Parise….just trying to get some input on who people think will make the team out of ST, assuming no new FAs or other slabs of meat are added.
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Heh.
missed by 5 secs.
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2010 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
my guess at the 25-man
carp
waino
penny
lohse
mclellan
albert
skip
boog
freese
yadi
holliday
colby
luddy
franklin
motte
miller
reyes
boggs
hawk
walters
larue
lugo
craig
greene
jay
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I like Jay over Gotay
that’s for sure. Not sure Walters should be in there, but his clock’s already started, and a lot of the other options haven’t.
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
i don't think he shoudl be
i just imagine he will be
it’s either him or jukich, but i just don’t know if they’ll add another lefty to the bullpen. with him, i think it’s either #5 starter or back to cincy
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
also
i could see a strong spring allowing mather to steal jay’s bench spot
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
The one thing Jay has going for him over Mather is his lefty-ness.
If Gotay doesn’t make the team, Jay would be the only lefty on the bench.
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 8, 2010 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
but as CF backup,
i don’t know if a lefty really has an advantage. you know tony is gonna wanna platoon colby against tough lefties, so if mather can hit, i’d rather him be out there than luddy (not that luddy is particularly awful)
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
True
but I still see it likelier that Luddy goes to CF, Craig goes to RF, and Jay stays on the team as the bench lefty, which would likely be needed more often.
Time for a new sig.
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Feb 9, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
if mather is healthy
hitting-wise, no way jay makes the team, imo.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
at this point
I agree, John Jay over Gotay
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2010 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
by 3rd MIF
do you mean overall, or 3rd MIF on bench?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
commenter
on PaH9 mentioned a tweet which i was unable to find mentioning mutual interest between springer and the cards
and to answer your qeustion, yes
though, i’d rather snag calero
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
and?
PROFIT!!!!!!
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
i think you mean
DEFICIT!!!!!!
but that would be a hell of a team. might as well go all in and sign branyan while we’re at it
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
ah, good call, sir
how bout pedro? can’t leave that guy out of the mix
really think if we had pedro setting up for smoltz with calero and springer running middle relief
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Sure we lose money on every unit, BUT!!!
we will make it up in Volume!!!
Profit!!!!
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
first of all, wtf
i had a whole post typed out and i paused for a second to space out and the text literally disappeared. no idea what happened.
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
anyway, both calero and springer?
i’d like to have both on the team, but i don’t know if the upgrade over motte/boggs would justify the $4-6MM it would cost to sign them. we could probably get a bigger upgrade using that money to sign one floppy. we’ve also got sanchez who i’d like to see make the team. he’s not already on the 40-man, though, so i don’t know how realistic it is to see him out of ST
plus, i there’s pretty much no chance it happens. two of motte, boggs and hawksworth won’t start the year in memphis. except maybe hawksworth if he has a rough spring
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
well...
but, look at similar signings. reyes and miller. probably not as valuable and both got $2MM late in the season
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
I think $4m isn't unreasonable
although I see that as about the high watermark. Calero really should get $2m+, and I can’t see Springer signing for less than $1m (again, I’d say there’s a chance he gets more like $1.5-2) If we could get both for $4m, I’d do it. It leaves us with a pretty good pen:
CL: Franklinstein
Set-up: Calero
Righty specialists: Springer, Motte
Lefty specialists: Miller, Dennys
Long-man/spot starter/7th inning guy: Boggs
Also gives us a couple of guys who could potentially close if Franky sucks as badly as some of us predict he might, in Boggs and Calero (I’m not sold on Motte as closer just yet until he can show he can get lefties out).
This is all assuming KMac wins the 5th starter job…
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Feb 9, 2010 6:40 AM EST up reply actions
Some of you may recall I asked for some suggestions for a HOF speech a week ago.
Well I spent a long time not doing anything with it and I just finished it an hour ago. If I put it in a FanPost, would you guys critique it?
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
What is a fanpost?
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
how folks like us (not mods) post things on the blog
it would be my first
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Feb 9, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
Meh. If it's not exactly kosher, then never mind.
I just like feedback, and the folks here always have good opinions.
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Feb 9, 2010 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
put it up it is a little slow tonight but people will take a look
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
yeah
post it…chickenshit.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
only a pansy would call someone chickenshit, Pal
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
Not your business, Chief
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
haha
listen buddy…
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Look junior, I don't like your tone
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
it's not a tone
it’s an accent. i’m hungarian, mofo. ever hear of kaiser soze? yeah, well, he’s my third cousin on my stepmother’s side.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
Hrabosky? is that you?
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
damn!
i swear, it never works. you know, it really doesn’t.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
you know, it really doesn't
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
too late
spants has spoken (that kinda rolls off the tongue nicely).
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
That should be her sig
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
by TomCat009 on Feb 9, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That is pretty good.
I’m not quite ready to forget Chinatown, though.
Forget it, spants. It's Chinatown. - tom s.
Well
We will always have have Chinatown, here’s looking at you kid
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
On a serious note
the rationing of water and the profiting off of it is going to be a major concern in the coming years, like Chinatown all over again
Heard a singer on the radio late last night
He says he's gonna kick the darkness
'til it bleeds daylight
After some technical difficulties, it is now up.
Heaven has brick walls and St. Peter is a red bird.
by EinFesteBusch on Feb 9, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
i recently discovered
that football does it’s draft in the offseason
i kinda wish baseball did that
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
yeah
this last month or so would have been a perfect time
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Feb 9, 2010 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
there's already enough going on in june
so, there’d be more focus on it and it would break up the monotony of the offseason
plus, we’d be able to get a full seasons worth of performance and data out of the kids the season that they’re signed. instead having to wait two years to have any idea of what you have
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
don't see that happening
time-frame: college football ends roughly the same time as nfl, whereas college baseball is over mid-mlb season. those gm’s want that last year of college evaluation on a player – otherwise you are drafting him before he plays his final college season. imagine drafting a guy who blows out his arm during the college season.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
nah
you’re still drafting him after his final season. but instead of june, right at the end, it’s in january a few months before ST
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
so he's supposed to sit around all summer and fall
miss a season of rookie ball?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
most of the top picks do anyway
by the time the guys you really want to see play sign, the minor league season is pretty much done. sometimes you might have a strasburg type throw 5 innings or something in arizona, but this season will be the first time he’s really pitched since college
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
even miller
taken at, what, #19? he hasn’t thrown a single professional pitch yet, has he? nothing out of college other than one bullpen in front of the big league staff, i think
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
i don't know
i think he tossed a couple innings.
but that’s first-round guys. what about all the other rounds – they supposed to sit on their fannies? and that last year of scouting opportunity, and the possibility of injury? had strasbourg blown out his elbow at sd state that last year, where would he go in the draft?
just saying, it ain’t happening that way.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
seems like you'd get more of a scouting opportunity
if you’re not having to pick guys before the end of their season
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
i must be misunderstanding
the college players are drafted immediately following their final college season, and it seems to me you are proposing drafting them either before their final season begins (mlb off-season) or having them wait until the following year, on their butts, to be drafted.
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i'm not proposing
drafting them before their final season. but i didn’t think the college season ended that early
i’m just f’ing ready for baseball
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
they could easily play in an unaffiliated summer/fall league
a cape cod league kind of thing, as well. No reason anyone needs to just sit around.
Well the girls would turn the color of the avocado when he would drive down the street in his El Dorado... -J Cale
not really the point
but would the club that just drafted them want them playing in cape cod or in their own system, under their tutelage?
"Some days I feel like the hypotenuse in a love triangle; others as if my lucky number is pi."
i'll be damned
he pitched 3 innings in A ball
don’t remember that
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
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