Jayson Werth puns are unavoidable
by DanUpBaby on Dec 6, 2010 6:01 AM EST
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PrintThe aftermath of the Jayson Werth signing is one of the weirdest things I've ever experienced as a baseball fan. Ken Rosenthal has used the word "insane" in a headline, and an unnamed GM apparently called it "absolutely bat-- crazy" (it's my understanding that he actually said bat-hyphen-hyphen, which suggests to me that it was John Mozeliak.) How often does baseball descend into such outward hostility toward one of its own? Does this ever happen?
I know it didn't happen with the last contract we discussed in yesterday's comments thread that is clearly worse—Ryan Howard's, which hasn't even started yet. Not only did the Phillies agree to pay a 32-year-old $125 million—the first year of the Werth contract is on the house—they did it when he was a 30-year-old.
Since then they've watched their investment put together his worst season as a major leaguer, and while that might seem excessively results-oriented Howard wasn't the kind of asset that ages well; he's a strikeout prone old-player's skills guy who's already a first baseman. It's like buying Pets.com stock in 1998 and agreeing to take control of it in 2001.
Werth is being overpaid here—suggesting he's not by invoking Ryan Howard is like trying to put him in the Hall of Fame by invoking Highpockets Kelly (or more positively, trying to say somebody's nickname is boring by invoking Highpockets Kelly.)
But that Ken Rosenthal and our comments section agree that it's an overpay isn't a sign of stathead inroads into mainstream thought, it's a bizarre coincidence. The Nationals have overvalued Werth relative to his likely future; sportswriters have undervalued Werth's past. Conditions are perfect for Ken Rosenthal and Sandy Alderson to high-five each other at the Winter Meetings. Meanwhile, Ryan Howard, who gets Rosenthal Points for being a team leader, is a year away from starting his contract.
Okay, okay, one more Ryan Howard fact. Adam Dunn's contract, which was itself an overpay, is $4 million less than what the Philadelphia Phillies will pay for Ryan Howard's age 35 and 36 seasons. Adam Dunn has had a higher OPS+ than Ryan Howard each of the last three years. Also, one-fourth of his contract will have elapsed before the contract that Ryan Howard signed last year begins.
It seems like just yesterday we were wondering about Lance Berkman making back his $7 million investment. (For what it's worth, Ryan Howard will be Lance Berkman's age three years into his current contract, at which point he will be making $25 million. When Lance Berkman was 30, he hit .315/.420/.621 with 45 home runs.) But it looks like we'll be joining the Nationals, the Red Sox, and whoever besides the Yankees is in on Cliff Lee starting today—it's Winter Meetings time, and that means John Mozeliak and Albert Pujols's agents have begun talking about talking.
Brendan Ryan trade opportunities figure to be the main attraction in the near term—though what do the Cardinals need, besides a utility infielder? Are they really going to trade the answer in the infield for the answer at backup catcher?—but once that's been exhausted, for better or worse, this offseason becomes all about Albert Pujols, for better or worst.
Wait, wait... For Better or Werth—do you think the New York Post takes unsolicited headline submissions?
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This contract isn't quite the Werth in baseball.
But it’s up there.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
by mob16151 on Dec 6, 2010 6:26 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'd definitely say this contract
(sunglasses)
Came out of right field.
by mojowo11 on Dec 6, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
Yes, Mr. Mojowo....
(sunglasses off)
He’s now Werth his weight in gold.
Stupid offseason.
by Bring Back Tommy Herr! on Dec 6, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
fast forward several years ....Was it werth it to sign werth or was this deal werthless.
(sunglasses lost)
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Nationals will dwell in the East cellar
but no one can call them werthless anymore.
I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!
he actually is worth a lot more than his weight in gold.
Now Berkman is werth double his weight in gold.
215 pounds of gold is worth $4MM?
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Gold is measured in troy ounces,
which is 12 per pound, so $3,635,220.00
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
named after troyes, france
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
he is not werthy...
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
Not quite
12 per troy pound but 14.58+ per avoirdupois pound, which is the measure (I presume) by which LB is weighed.
I’ll let you work it out from there …
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
lboros isn't weighed at 16 ozzies per pound?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 6, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Talk about your
(sunglasses)
National headlines.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Not as poignant as "heh" but I'll take it I guess
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
18 mil. a year for 7 years
for a guy who has NEVER driven in 100 runs, despite playing in a bandbox and batting behind numerous .300 hitters. What’s the open market price for a guy who has NEVER NOT driven in 100 runs in 10 seasons? DeWitt and Mo had better get Albert signed quickly before someone gives Prince Fielder 8 years and 240 mil.
by vinniefromjersey on Dec 6, 2010 6:36 AM EST reply actions
ah yes, the RBI
can’t quite remember the last time i’ve heard someone use that statistic
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
i've heard many GMs throw out the RBI stat
when they are talking about a guy’s contract.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I like to think that most GMs say that to appeal to the masses
Its when intelligent fans use stats like that it disturbs me.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
i think it's fair to use it
When talking about what a GM paid for it; if they did use it as a metric;or even if they didn’t, when other GMs may use it as a metric.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
If I were a GM,
I’d use RBI any time it was convenient for me. Cliff Lee, I think you should accept this $3M contract, since your RBI totals have been very low the last few seasons.
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
by hazel on Dec 6, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I thought I was the troll around here...
there ain’t room for two.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
RBI huh?
Yup, yup he went there.
Also… did you know… that not a single regular starter for the Phillies this year had a .300 BA except Carlos Ruiz (who, actually had a damn fine offensive season). Polanco was close at .298, but the fact is (and not that it matters b/c it’s just BA) that Werth emphatically did NOT bat behind numerous .300 hitters.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 6, 2010 8:11 AM EST up reply actions
While we're on the subject..
he’s never batted .300 either.
I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!
therefore he cannot hit for average
therefore he is not werth his contract.
being Joe Morgan is fun!
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
right now I have Joe Morgan talking with a British accent in my head.
Thanks a lot.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
did he use the phrase "wicked googly"?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
That isn't helping.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
You can bring up nearly any statistical observation associated w/ Werth
and argue that he doesn’t even come close to merit a contract of this magnitude. There are countless reasons the Nationals are being ridiculed throughout baseball, so there really is no need to pinpoint any particular base stat or advanced metric.
Living outside of DC and listening to some of the local Nats fans attempting to justify this contract and not even making an effort to re-sign Dunn is quite enjoyable really.
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
I wasn't comparing the two on their abilities.
more so on the contracts that they ultimately received – albeit both of them over payments.
I would personally rather overpay Dunn for four years than Werth for seven.
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
The term "overpay"
refers to the going market rate for players. That was around $4.2M last year and this year has seen an increase outside of the Dunn and Werth deals. So if you figure $4.5-5M per win, all Werth has to do to earn his $18M is be worth 3.5 wins. Of course, he’s a consistent 5 win player. If you put him on aging curve of 5, 4.5, 4, 3.5, 3, 2.5, 2 – that works out to 22.5 wins or $110M+ in value and that doesn’t even factor in inflation.
Dunn on the other hand is a 2-3 win player earning $14M – if you figure a 3, 2.5, 2, 1.5 curve for him you get 9 wins or about $45 million not counting inflation. If anything Dunn is the bigger overpay, albeit with less overall risk.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
I was about to post this.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
This
The rate’s not terrible but the deal is contingent on the health of an outfielder into his late 30’s. Maybe one day they have to move him to first or something.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 6, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
it's an overpay
but look again at that Ryan Howard contract. Werth is a pretty bad overpay. Howard is like taking stacks of hundred dollar bills and building a cabin out of them in the middle of nowhere. Then burning that cabin down.
Fire John Mozeliak
by purple_haze on Dec 6, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
very apt description.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
don't even need the big, bad wolf
I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!
by martimeryard on Dec 6, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Heehee
I laughed.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 6, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
You're joking, right?
I can’t tell.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
this is true
but he has a really high fielding percentage
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
by prophetjohn on Dec 6, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but he's a winner
he has a pennant and a WS ring
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
you have to have miles and miles of it... apparently...
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
I dunno
he looks pretty gritty, he’s just getting paid too much for that grit.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 6, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
check out his wOBA and then come back
you do realize that rbi’s can be knocked in by other guy’s on a team like the Phillies, who were chock full of good hitters?
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not completely on board with wOBA
Any stat that is suppose to weigh OBA higher than slug when combining them to help cross compare players, but ends up making a guy with less OBA and less slug look better just seems flawed to be in some way.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
being a recently involved in a discussion about holliday and Jasyon Werth
Holliday .312 / .390 / .532 – wOBA .396
Werth .296 /.388/.532 – wOBA .397
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
i suspect the difference there
lies in the batting average. a single is more valuable according to run expectancy than a walk. ie: you can drive in a run with a walk unless the bases are loaded
if you look at how wOBA is created, OBP and SLG are weighted indiviually. every batting outcome is weighted individual according to their change in run expectancy. it’s a pretty sound methodology
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
OBP and SLG are *not* weighted indiviually^
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
but that doesn't make sense
lies in the batting average. a single is more valuable according to run expectancy than a walk. ie: you can drive in a run with a walk unless the bases are loaded
I mean, I agree with you that singles are move valuable than walks. Because you can’t drive in runs with walks unless the bases are loaded. But that should tip it in favor of Holliday, whose BA is a good .14 points higher.
Werth does have an extra double and an extra triple. With Holliday having more HRs. So that could be the tipping the scale there.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
so the linear weights change every year?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
yeah
and supposedly the scale is also supposed to since league average OBP changes every year, but i don’t like that part. i don’t know if it’s practiced either
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
it would make sense to have it adjusted every year
I’m okay with that. I just don’t like adjusted numbers like that to be in a percentage because it makes it harder to compare to other years. But I’ll keep that in mind if it is.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Yes
That ensures that wOBA and its derivatives are always answering the question, “how am I performing relative to my peers during this baseball season?”
If you want specificity, you’d have to also know the league-average wOBA from year to year – a player’s wOBA could be identical from one year to the next, but if it got much harder to hit a baseball in one of them that identical wOBA represents a higher value relative to peers.
Using a stat like wRC+, in addition to park/league-adjusting, automatically takes care of needing to know the league average for a year, because it’s always set to 100.
alight
So we can’t compare someone’s 2010 wOBA to someone else’s 2009 wOBA. Different scale. However; you can compare their wRC+; because that gives you an idea how far/below they were with their peers that year. (in the same sense of OPS+). Just keep in mind that wRC+ is weighted with park factors.
Is wRC+ all hitters, or is adjusted for position?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Yep, potentially different
In scales, parks, and/or leagues.
OPS+ is league and park-adjusted too, so it only differs from wRC+ in its core number: OPS versus wOBA.
Both are for all hitters, but there are tables out there from time to time which show what the averages are by position (also a moving target, depending on talent distribution in baseball).
you're right
i read the stats wrong
the more HRs seems like as good a reason as any
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
wOBA includes stolen bases as well
It’s not like FanGraphs is calculating the weights wrong, I don’t see your problem.
underlining problem with the way things are weighted apparently
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
i never said it was calculating the weights wrong
Stolen bases could very well be the difference then. How are the weighted?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I'm not sure
But all of the weights are calculated based on the average run value of each event over that of an out.
I'm not sure
But all of the weights are calculated based on the average run value of each event over that of an out.
Park adjustments are important - especially with Coors
wRC+ (Fangraphs) and wOBA* (Statcorner) are wOBA-based, AND park/league-adjusted.
Park adjustments especially with Coors should be taken with a grain of salt
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
wouldn't be park adjustments I would think
Since Holliday hits it a much harder park. I’m only comparing 2010 numbers
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
The only argument I see for not using park effects
Even for one year, is because you don’t trust them.
i'm not against using them
I’m just saying it’s not the park effects that are giving Werth a higher wOBA than Holliday.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Park effects change the value of wOBA, though
See the link below: “This is why Carlos Gonzalez’s .423 wOBA is worth 39.2 runs, while Adrian Gonzalez’s .388 wOBA is worth 37.4 runs.”
So...
Park Values are not considered in calculating Holliday’s .396 wOBA, and they are considered in calculating Werth’s .397 wOBA?
Therefor they wouldn’t be the reason that Holliday has a lower wOBA. But they would give Holliday’s wOBA a higher value?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Park values aren't considered in wOBA, for anyone
They are considered in wRC+ and wOBA*. If you want the best attempt at a park-neutral comparison, use one of those stats.
right but they adjust for Coors being half of his production
then they use the park factors where he plays his road games, then derive the value. They ignore the fact that the Rockies have a disadvantage playing in every road game.
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I think that PFs are used for 50% of games (home)
And that the rest do not have a PF applied (since even though it’s mostly divisional, it’s all kinds of play in all kinds of parks). If you have more evidence of how it’s handled I’d love to check it out.
right but the Rockies hitters face a challenge
no other hitters face(the hangover effect, movement of pitches) and while they benefit from playing in an extreme hitters home field(their home numbers are weighted downward) when they go on the road they are weighted against numbers from players who don’t have to make that adjustment.
An example of this would be Carlos Gonzalez his 2010 slash lines of
.380/.425/.737 1.161 OPS 136 tOPS+
.289/.322/.453 .775 OPS 61 tOPS+
look pretty damning and could lead you to question his talent
sOPS measures not what he did in a vacuum but rather what he did compared to other hitters in HIS environment those come out as
204 sOPS+
114 sOPS+
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I'm still not following you
tOPS+ says most of Cargo’s OPS was home-made.
sOPS+ says Cargo was far above-average at home, and moderately above-average away.
Neither of those make me question his talent.
I think both of those things are expected for a Coors player, and I don’t see how that relates to inequity in park factors.
it relates to the article you posted about how
Cargo’s numbers don’t mean as much as A-Gon’s numbers which may very well be true, but if you adjust every Rockies numbers at home down because of the effects of that home park, but then do not adjust his road numbers up based on the strong evidence that Rockies players suffer more than average on the road, you are not getting an accurate picture of a players value
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
here is a decent place to start
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2010/8/8/1611852/carlos-gonzalez-a-god-on-a-mountain
there was also someone here who broke down the way Holliday hit on the road his OPS consistently rose on each successive day of the trip
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Looks very interesting
I’ll check it out after work. What I’m looking for is something less anecdotal than two well-known individuals though, evidence that the entire team has experienced unusual difficulties and for sustained periods of time.
doesn't prove anything
but since BABIP raises with better contact
Home BABIP
2010: .341
2009: .323
2008: .318
2007: .333
2006: .331
Road BABIP
2006 .289
2007 .311
2008 .300
2009 .286
2010 .277
again it doesn’t prove anything but I would say the adjustment that eventually comes for players playing a Coors is pretty well documented.
Here are some numbers from the first full season of some of the better hitters developed by the Rockies
Carlos Gonzalez
Age 24
Home .380/.425/.737 1.161OPS
Away .289/.322/.453 .775OPS
Matt Holliday
Age 24
Home .338/.406/.603 1.009OPS
Away .240/.287/.367 .654OPS
Todd Helton
Age 24
Home 354/.417/.585 1.002OPS
Away.273/.340/.470 .811OPS
Tulo(first full season)
Age 22
Home .326/.392/.568 .960OPS
Away .256/.327/.393 .719OPS
and by three years in…
Holliday
Age 27
Home .376/.435/.722 1.157OPS
Away .301/.374/.485 .860OPS
Helton
Age 26
Home .391/.484/.758 1.242OPS
Away .353/.441/.633 1.074OPS
Tulo
Age 25
Home .339/.403/.631 1.034OPS
Away .291/.358/.504 .863OPS
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I know how long it takes to type
Or even paste that stuff in. So I’m sorry! And I’m interested in your argument, but the evidence is still too anecdotal to convince me that Rockie players suffer more on the road.
It will likely always be an unproven
argument all I can say is that it makes sense to me logically(Colorado is the most unique environment in baseball, therefor there will be outcomes unique to Colorado) and the evidence I have seen supports that theory. I doubt very seriously any of those players were sub-800OPS true talents, they are forced to adjust more than any other players in baseball.
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Things can be tough to measure
I’m not sure that one is, just a matter of a meaningful sample size (measure players before and after they came over and left, adjust for normal variations with aging, that sort of thing). I’ll keep an eye out for it if the studies come. Given the money thrown around in Colorado alone, I would think it worth it for them to commission studies themselves if it’s legit.
I think that PFs are used for 50% of games (home)
And that the rest do not have a PF applied (since even though it’s mostly divisional, it’s all kinds of play in all kinds of parks). If you have more evidence of how it’s handled I’d love to check it out.
Explanation of FG park effects
Via http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/carlos-gonzalez-and-the-value-of-runs/ (wish it wasn’t hidden in this link)
The name of the game is to win, of course. You win games by outscoring your opponents, whether its 1-0 or 11-10. Anyone who has watched a game in Denver in San Diego will tell you that the park has a pretty significant influence on whether a game leans more towards one side of that spectrum than the other, and Colorado is notable for promoting offense. It is still the best place to hit in baseball, and because of that, the average game in Coors Field will see more runs scored than in other parks.
That makes each individual run less valuable in helping a team win. If the Rockies need to score six runs at home in order to win, a home run – which has a league average run value of 1.4 runs – by Gonzalez gets them 23.3 percent of the way there. The Padres, for instance, only need to score four runs in order to win at home, so a home run at Petco by Adrian Gonzalez, worth the same 1.4 runs, gets them 35 percent of the way to their needed total. A run in San Diego, or anywhere really, is worth more than a run in Colorado because of the run environment.
This is why we have to adjust the raw numbers before we compare players side by side. The goal is to win games, not to accumulate counting stats, and each individual hit does not have the same effect on winning a game for each player. This is why Carlos Gonzalez’s .423 wOBA is worth 39.2 runs, while Adrian Gonzalez’s .388 wOBA is worth 37.4 runs. Their raw offensive numbers are quite different, but their actual value is essentially the same. Offensively, the two Gonzalez’s are having equivalent seasons – that reality is just obscured by the parks they play in.
It isn’t about what they would have done in other parks – it’s about how many runs it actually takes to win a game in the park they currently play in. Even with the park adjustments, Gonzalez is still an MVP candidate, and if he keeps hitting the cover off the ball in September, he’ll have earned his way onto the ballot. However, we have to keep in mind that his raw performance has to be better than everyone else in order to have the same value, because he’s playing in an environment where runs are pretty easy to come by, and therefore, each one is less valuable.
A good way to think of park factors
Is to apply them to the baseline player. Matt Holliday is compared to the league average hitter to determine his value. You don’t adjust Holliday’s line by ballpark, but rather the league average hitters line.
do you know what a sOPS is?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I would argue that the bench last year was nearly all sops
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
That's odd, I agree. . .
I would have thought the park effects would have actually made Holliday’s wOBA significantly higher than Werth’s.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
he is hurt by his first few years playing in
Colorado where everyone struggles on the road untill they learn to adjust to the way pitches move Hollidays career road wRC+
2004 60
2005 88
2006 101
2007 118
2008 141
2009 129
2010 149
I would say he has proven himself outside of Coors
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Werth has much worse road numbers.
Holliday was a better hitter slightly better at Busch. At least, from an OPS stand point. He had more hits/power away, but took more walks at Busch
Home:
.306 .412 .522 .934
Away:
.318 .368 .541 .909
While Werth benifited greatly from playing in Phillie
Home
.320 .401 .599 .999
Away:
.270 .375 .463 .838
This is only 2010. If it was park factors I think it would tip in Holliday’s favor.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
that illustrates the BB% even better if Holliday has a 10% on the road
his numbers would have been far superior on the road
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Oh, wait, are those career
numbers? If so, then the park effects might take it the other way.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
You can't compare wOBA to OBP and SLG.
wOBA is based on the run expectancy of an event, whereas OBP is simply a rate stat and SLG is an arbitrary formula.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
The Book
I unfairly characterized SLG.
From The Book:
On-base percentage is a great statistic because it tells you something important, and in a clear language: at what rate did this player reach base? It doesn’t tell you how far he reached base (second base? third? home?), but only whether he did or did not.
Slugging percentage is another great statistic because it tells you something important, and in a clear language: how many bases did the batter gain for himself per at-bat? It doesn’t consider walks as either a positive or negative event (it simply strips them away as if they don’t exist). It also tries to establish the importance of the single and HR by weighting the HR four times as much as the single.
****
Instead of trying to take two statistics (OBP, SLG) and combine and correct their flaws in the hopes of getting one number, we prefer to start from scratch. Furthermore, by recasting the number onto the OBP scale, it makes it much easier for the reader to get a grasp on the number. wOBA is weighted on-base average (we call it an average rather than a percentage). When you look at wOBA numbers throughout the book, just think OBP, and you’ll be fine. In other words, an average hitter is around 0.340 or so, a great hitter is 0.400 or higher, and a poor hitter would be under 0.300.
If you are a little more experienced with run values, you might have figured out the following:
Run value per PA above average = (wOBA for player – wOBA for league) / 1.15
So the run value chart, which we presented in the previous section, and the wOBA statistic defined in this section are directly related.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it was that unfair
The perfectly linear 1000/2000/3000/4000 progression for understandably non-linear 1B/2B/3B/HR values meets the definition of arbitrary in my book.
Well put
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 6, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Just for giggles...
Career wRC+ for Berkman = 149
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 6, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
I would argue that Holliday has more valuable base running skills
and his road BB% of 6.7 was the worst he has had in four years, if it is anywhere near his last three years 10% 12.8% 11% that road wOBA jumps at least ten points
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Poorly I would argue
I like wRC+ because it agrees with my argument more
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I was kidding of course
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I don't understand your issue with it
But, wOBA is just an expression of linear weights (looking at the year’s average run expectancies for each offensive event) and placed on an OBP scale (so that it’s more intuitive to those who know what good/bad OBPs are). It weighs everything according to actual run outcomes.
It doesn't way OBA higher than SLG though
What it does is seek to assign a run value to every positive hitting event and calculate a stat based on that.
Here’s what MGL had to say:
Do we really need another statistic? Yes, we do. Instead of trying to take two statistics (OBP, SLG) and combine and correct their flaws in the hopes of getting one number, we prefer to start from scratch.
So, basically, it’s throwing out the OBP/SLG playbook all together.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 6, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
wow... that Ryan Howard contract
I almost feel bad for the Phillies fans. Almost. Okay, maybe not.
Fire John Mozeliak
have you seen how they treated Werth?
asinine… did they expect him to wait until all the teams that were after him to make bids, and then say no to all of them since the Phillies said they were not bringing him back, then beg for them to bring him back at below market value? Phillies fans give Cubs fans a run for their money; actually I think they are even dumber. Cincy fans might be the dumbest though overall.
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Boog, TGreen and Shelby to the Royals
Get Greinke.
Sign Aaron Miles as utility man.
Craig backs up third.
Jay 4th OF.
Lohse gets very expensive in the ’pen.
Win World Series
????
Profit
Rather than sign Miles,
couldn’t we just have Ryan draw a goatee on himself with black magic marker and pretend to be Miles? It seems like the kind of thing he’d be okay with, and TLR might not see through the ruse.
by dronemc on Dec 6, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 11 recs
And if Soup and Infection are also gone
it’s easier to pretend you’re Miles because you don’t have anyone to compare him to.
“Wait… you don’t look just like the other two…”
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
Ryan could just spin around and grow one.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
by Evilfrog on Dec 6, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The lack of recs for this brilliant idea is concerning.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
this is a great oppurtunity for photoshop
i would if my computer had photoshop
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
He needs to starting masking his height like Tom Cruise in any Tom Cruise movie
Except the other way around, of course.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
"Honey, I shrunk to Miles"?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I was talking about B. Ryan acting shorter
So he is a more convincing pseudo-Miles.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
I knew what you meant. That just leaped to the forefront.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
I f'n hate footnotes.
Check out this monstrosity
A. Brinegar, ‘Evaluating Citizen Attitudes about Corruption in Chile’ in C. H. Blake & S. D. Morris, eds., Corruption and Democracy in Latin America, (Pittsburgh 2009) p. 134; and Epstein & Pion-Berlin, ‘The Crisis of 2001 and Argentine Democracy’ p.18
Brinegar, ‘Evaluating Citizen Attitudes’ p.136
Brinegar, ‘Evaluating Citizen Attitudes’ p.137
Brinegar, ‘Evaluating Citizen Attitudes’ p.138
Epstein & Pion-Berlin, ‘The Crisis of 2001 and Argentine Democracy’ p.18
J. Bailey, ‘Corruption and Democratic Governability’ in C. H. Blake & S. D. Morris, eds., Corruption and Democracy in Latin America, (Pittsburgh 2009) p. 65
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
Aranthor: I just noticed your sig
My supervisor in the Air Force (many moons ago) lobbied to have my official title in our unit changed to “Scapegoat, Operations Scheduling.”
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
Thanks
I was really worried for a little while there that I was going to make it through the day without being shown someone’s random footnotes out of context.
your welcome
i will gladly provide context if you want
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
That's honestly one of the reasons I don't think I could ever be an academic
I just don’t have the patience to keep dealing with academic writing over and over again.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
The secret
is to have only your own ideas and never read anything you would have to cite
The Mang does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
That's largely what I did when I could, actually
For example, I loved English papers as long as they were the “your own thesis and arguments” type and not the “look a bunch of stuff up” type.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
So you love bullshit?
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
I love bullshittING
Big difference. I didn’t have to read any of those papers, I just got awesome grades on them.
Actually, I happen to think that a lot of my papers were legitimately good, but yeah, there was lots of bullshitting going on.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
word
i slapped together a 4 page essay on the stoic ethics, where my only source of info was the lectures and two short reading assignments about it, in 45 minutes. i attacked the professors lecture on it and got a 94. i literally just started typing and wrote down whatever i thought of. as far as writing essays go, this type of shit is way better than research or scientific papers
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
werthless?
maybe we can assign that to tlr, who in today’s pd stated that lance f berkman was one of the top 5 or 6 hitters in the league
so, let’s see, he’s going to have a
better year than which .800 ops guys?
pujols, holliday, votto, werth!!, fielder, dunn?, braun, clobby, gonzalez?, jones, wright, zimmerman, cargo, kemp, either, upton, mccutcheon,……
living in the past? jethro tull would be proud
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
I love how we
Dog TLR anytime he says something bad about a player, and then dog him again any time talks up a player.
At least we are consistent.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
by Evilfrog on Dec 6, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
TLR is the boogeyman to some people; he's just a manifestation of whatever thing or quality they dislike.
Sometimes he fucks up, sometimes he makes good decisions — it’s pretty much irrelevant.
Because TLR.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 6, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
ridiculous...
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
that's not a very nice thing to say, mister ooey
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
No, no, mysterui has already apologized for Bryan Adams
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
Hmm... you're gonna have to explain this to me
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut
Flapping-headed spokesman for Canadian government having to apologize for Bryan Adams.
“Can I finish? Can I finish? CAN I FINISH? … OK, I’m finished.”
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
I WILL NOT BE SPOKEN TO LIKE THAT BY A MUGGLE
AVADA KEDAVRA
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i will now forever picture tony as professor snape in neville's grandmother's dress and handbag.
thank you.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Dec 6, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Misssster Potter
Alan Rickman, the King of Pregnant Pauses
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
THAT'SSSSSSSSSSSSSSS....
my wife.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
TLR is having a pretty solid offseason.
Signed Westy early, to a pretty fair contract.
Received value for an interchangeable part (Theriot for Hawks)
Signed Berkman to a decent contract (especially considering other deals this offseason).
Or was that Mo? Wait…what’s going on here?
of course TLR has to talk up the new addition. That is what any decent manager would do. Even if they do bat Feliz 5th…
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
and if he did
We would jump on him about throwing player’s under the bus
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
My MIL always says "throw me under the bus"
there’s a difference between throwing somebody under the bus and making it known that they crawled right under there and made their residence 123 Underthebus Street.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
I think Berkman could again be one of the top 5 or 6 hitters in the NL next season.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Lance Berkman is 2 years older than Jason Werth
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Jayson Werth is 31.
Lance Berkman is 34. 3 years older, right?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
sorry yes 3 1976 and 1979
but still the point stands
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I wouldn't mind signing him to a minor league deal...
but Boras is going to coax a team to overpay, so I don’t really see him as an option.
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
i agree
chances are he ends up on the DL at some point next year. Unless it is a MiLB deal, its not werth the risk
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
i wholeheartedly endorse the use of 'Werth' puns
in topics that have absolutely nothing to do with Jayson Werth.
Fire John Mozeliak
it not werth it
unless you use it to it maximum pun-iness.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
I entered ten puns in a pun contest hoping one would win but not one pun in ten did
I wasn’t werthy.
I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!
by martimeryard on Dec 6, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
please don't pun-ish me with more puns.
I’m just kidding. Puns are always a werthwhile venture. As would possibly kicking the tires on Crede. He is a fellow mid-missourian, want me to talk to him?
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
He who would pun
would pick a pocket.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 6, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Also, with Freese in place, we certainly don't need another injury prone 3rd baseman
and someone who would presumably take more ABs away from Craig.
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
We still have Lil' Carp!
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
This too.
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
he's just not very good
Laroche would be a better pickup if he agrees to sign for a very low contract. if not, I am at least fairly confident either Tyler Greene or Allen Craig can be the backup 3rd baseman.
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Well, pulled an all-nighter on a school night for no particular reason
I’m not feeling tired in the slightest. I think there might be something wrong with me.
However, I was able to learn the solo to Fat Old Sun, so there’s that…
I have class then, shit!
I’m hoping I can take a nice nap in free block, hopefully nobody will draw a penis on my face.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 6, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
better grab a red bull then.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
trick i learned for situations like that
is to take your shoes off
Kyle Lohse has a No-Trade Clause.
And make fists with your toes...
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
Run around the room and scream at the top of your lungs.
They’ll send you home, then you can take a nap. Of course, You’ll probably have to go to counseling and be drug tested, but what the hell, you’ll get some z’s. I just wouldn’t pull an all-niter for a while.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah.
VEP will be hitting an early afternoon wall. Then again, he’s young, so he might be able to make until he’s done with school for the day…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
sitting in class will be tough.
not moving, (probably) somewhat bored. that is where I always ran into trouble.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
i always run into trouble when the teacher starts talking
they are seriously better than sleeping pills
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
yeah, i was up 'til 5am
just wait, when you get into bed you’ll just collapse. Exhaustion doesn’t really kick in if you stay up. But saying that, i’m glad it was werth your time to stay up.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
Ashes viewing?
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
A good night's sleep is Werth your time. Especially during the Holliday season.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
you may be
hope you don’t make noises this time during your in-class sex dream
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
TLR quote in P-D: Berkman bats 5th/4th
La Russa played down suggestions that Berkman may hit near the top of the batting order. Instead, La Russa believes Berkman a more natural fit as protection for Pujols and cleanup bat Matt Holliday.
"I believe he fits you best in the middle," La Russa said. "I really believe we just got deeper in the middle of our order. You talk about a track record hitter in the middle and he’s got it. I’d put him in the top five or six in the league. I see him hitting fourth if Matt doesn’t play, fifth if he does."
Theriot — Rasmus — Pujols — Holliday — Berkman — Freese — Molina — Pitcher — Schumaker
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 6, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
That sounds about right.
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
That's not too bad...
if only Boog cud hit a lick instead of licking his shoulder!
:=8/
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Please give me your rationale
for batting Skippy 6th. Really. Because I can’t fathom why you would do that.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
If you're trying to rag on TLR's line-up choices in your prediction of what he would do,
I can understand that. But if you’re actually trying to follow the logic he has been using for the last three years, then you’ll see that Skip has consistently batted Yadi 6th or 7th in the order, and Freese was more likely to bat 5th or 6th when he was healthy last year. With RISP or just men on base, Skip has been a 108/103 OPS+ player, while Yadi has been a 118/117 OPS+ player. Skip is not a 6th place hitter – Freese (when healthy) is at least that, and Yadi is a better alternative than Skippy.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
*TLR has consistently batted Yadi*
“Skip” might make sense to describe the manager on a team without a player named Skip already, but we have one, for now.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
I wasn't trying to necessarily rag on anything, only offer a guess
And, again, it isn’t my own lineup. I appreciate the input, please disregard the comment.
how is it even possible to predict a TLR lineup?
he used over 100 different lineups last year , the one time he stuck with the same lineup for more than 3 days was in Cincinnati .
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Where is that 13-sided die?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
on TLR's breakfast table
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
here
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2009/6/8/902788/larussas-dodecahedron-lineup
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Dec 6, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Dodecahedron
This is why we have an eight-man bullpen.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
look how many of those guys are gone !!
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
That was awesome, by the way!
Well done, Flim!
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 6, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
a dodecahedron is 12 sided
gosh didn’t you kids ever read the phantom tollbooth?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Oh great...
now Holliday is Jay’s platoon partner… Why the f wouldn’t he play?
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
over reaction much?
Tony is going to sit Platoon veteran Matt Holliday for Jon Jay? Everyone gets a few days off.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I think Jay will get plenty of starts while spelling Berkman.
TLR is going to have to manage Berkman in a way that’s similar to Larry Walker.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
hopefully it will be Craig
But I believe you are right.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Unless Craig is dedicated to 3B, I think TLR will get this one
- It’s well-known that Berkman doesn’t hit LHP nearly as well as he hits RHP and
- It’s apparent that Jay is left-handed
yeah it's a weird way to say it
as if he expects Holliday to miss a lot of time
by infallibleopiniongenerator on Dec 6, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Translation from the TLR speak:
“Just because the front office made a good move doesn’t mean I can’t find a way to screw with your heads about it.”
I consider myself a TLR loyalist.
I appreciate his drive and focus. I appreciate that he spends hours pouring over lineup decisions and game scenarios. I appreciate that he carries handwritten information in his pocket during games. I appreciate that each game I know our manager has spent his due diligence in fielding our best shot at winning that day’s game (in his opinion).
However, I just do not understand this. Berkman is tailor made to hit in the 2-hole. He is exactly what he typically wants and exactly what Pujols could use for a change. Furthermore, this talk about track record doesnt exactly apply – he’s moving to a ‘new’ position at 34. And he is coming off his first futile offensive season; it’s really comparable to Carlton Fisk’s career arc when TLR first went to this power in the 2 hole lineup with the White Sox, is it not? It misuses Colby’s speed, which would be better served in front of a singles hitting catcher who can go to the right side and advance a runner to generate small ball runs. You know, like in the freaking 5 hole. I also think it further stymies, Colby’s development as a middle of the order Edmonds type to bat him in a spot where just getting on base is the major focus and benefit to the team. Batting Puma in the 5 hole also misuses his lack of speed.
All in all Im dissapointed that TLR is thinking this way. He must really just hate Raz.
by rlgosnell on Dec 6, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
TLR has never understood "protection."
The best way to “protect” Pujols is to have the bases loaded when he is due up. The second-best way is to have runners on first and second. The third-best way is to have a runner on first base when he is due up. Batting Lance Berkman second, with his very good walk rate, would be an outstanding way to “protect” Pujols.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
The best way to protect Pujols is to have someone on infront of him
And Berkman would be perfect for that job. That being said, I wouldn’t be against batting Colby there. Because I beleive Colby could have a higher OBP than Berkman this year.
But maybe I’m putting to much faith in Colby in that regard
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I think when you have a young CF who hits moonshots
that sound like a cannon during a civil war re-enactment, it might be a good idea to help him develop that skill. But then again, maybe pitch selection is the best way to develop it. I really just want to see Colby run more and I thought he would be able to do that hitting lower in the order on a consistent basis.
wasn't he reprimanded for trying to hit HR's last season ? as in benched
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
it was more of
trying to hit homeruns on balls he shouldn’t be trying to hit homeruns on.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
oh yeah that makes perfect sense in TLR's world, i forgot
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
It's actually pretty sound logic
Colby does get pull-happy. But, that doesn’t mean a benching is warranted, of course.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 6, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Albert Pujols is just as pull-happy as Colby
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
But what albert does is completely unrelated to what Rasmus does
Lincecum is strike-out happy. No one has an issue with that. If suppan becomes strikeout happy, there’s an issue.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Colby probably has just as much power as Albert
What’s inherently wrong with him being pull happy?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
um, let's not get ahead of ourselves
colby does not probably have just as much power as albert f. pujols
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Power just means when the ball..
hits the bat it goes a long way. The ball hitting the bat being a non-trivial factor that Albert is somewhat better at.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
by guayzimi on Dec 6, 2010 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And
when Albert wants to hit the other way, he tells the ball, and the ball goes the other way. Even if he actually pulled it.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 6, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i think albert can make the ball go farther than colby can
matt holliday might challenge him for that title, but not colby
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Getting out of my depth here...
but Albert really stays back on the ball – which results in him never getting fooled. Colby has the big leg kick. I could see Colby having more power just based on their approach, not necessarily pure talent.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
I know it's still SSS for Colby, but this year he had
by far the longest Cards’ HR (483 feet compared to Albert in second at 449, Colby again at 447, and Albert again at 446). And while Pujols had the three longest HR last year, Rasmus had the next two right behind him, and they were all within 9 feet of each other (456-465 feet).
In 2009 Pujols’ and Rasmus’ average true HR distances were 414.4 and 413.3 feet, respectively. This year they were 407.8 and 402.2 feet, respectively. The two seem quite similar in Rasmus’ first two years. (All numbers from HitTracker.)
by BTown Birds fan on Dec 6, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
colby is not even close in ISO
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah my statement was disingenuous
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I would love to know
How stevesommer put this together. Then I would put together a new one for him, and then one for Pujols. It’s a result thing. Rasmus doesn’t do good thing with balls on the outside of the plate. Tony would like for him to try something else with those balls because pulling them doesn’t seem to be working. Now, there is no guarantee that trying to go with the pitch is going to result in more hits for Rasmus. But given his speed I believe there could be a good number of singles and doubles left out there.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
and if Albert went the other way more often
he might hit .400. It’s unfortunate that he is so pull happy, because he’d probably be a better player if he wasn’t (he didn’t use to be; if you look at his numbers from early in his career he had power to all fields).
I'd agree with that
I’d like Pujols to go to left field more often when given a pitch to do so.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Are you being sarcastic
or did you mean right field?
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 6, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
i meant right field
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
He might get more hits
Does that make him a better player?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i would consider his pull-happy nature to be a recent thing
it could be that decline/injury has made him become more pull-happy. assuming that his change in approach has any causal relationship with his dip in stats in 2010, i’d say yes
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
No I mean
If 2010 Pujols tries to go the other way more often or if 2010 Pujols keeps pulling home runs
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
if him not being able to extend his elbow was already
brought up at a reason why he’s not going to center & right field anymore, i won’t rehash it. but i didn’t see it so i thought i’d drop it in late.
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
I dunno
With Pujols it’s a little different than Colby. Pujols already gets plenty of hits from those outside pitches. Many of them are extra basehits.He isn’t as fast as Rasmus. And trading extra base hits for singles aren’t worth it unless he is also trading some outs for singles.With Rasmus i believe he would be trading mostly outs for singles. (I would say walks too if he lays off, be he gets hosed out there.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
i still think he can hit moonshoots and being a good OBP man
The pitch selection is key. If he lays of those outside of the plate balls, and stops trying to turn those outside on the plate into moon shots, he’ll raise his OBP. He can still take anything down from the middle of the plate-inside and deposit it over the wall.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I don't know. . .
that there is a wrong answer to this question, frankly. I continue to believe that batting in front of Pujols will increase the number of fastballs that you will see as opposed to batting 6th, with the caveat that batting with a couple of guys on base and batting in front of Pujols is probably about equal.
Offensively, I suspect that Colby’s #s and Berkman’s OPS numbers are likely to look similar at the end of the season, with Berkman having a higher OBP, and Colby having a higher SLG.
You could argue that the best place for Raz personally would be in the #2 hole, in fact, if it would mean more fastballs and more plate discipline.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Has anyone actually tested this claim?
I continue to believe that batting in front of Pujols will increase the number of fastballs that you will see as opposed to batting 6th, with the caveat that batting with a couple of guys on base and batting in front of Pujols is probably about equal.
It seems to be taken as an article of faith that the guys in front of stars will see more fastballs, but is that even true? I’m not picking you or anything, Southside, but it seems to be something that gets said a lot and I’m honestly curious if anyone’s tried to check it out.
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 6, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
No offense taken.
It’s a completely unsupported claim.
I think that I remember a discussion on here where a couple of studies were cited to the contrary. And i think that I remember being underwhelmed by those studies.
All else being equal, I believe it, but the problem with the studies, of course, is that all else is never equal. If you have a guy who tends to chase curves down and in, then of course pitchers will tend to throw those no matter where in the lineup Mr. Willie McGee is hitting.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
it doesn't pass the sniff test for me
i know last year there was a fanpost where fourstick, et al attempted to quantify this. i don’t remember all the details, beyond the fact that i wasn’t convinced of his methodology. i still think it’s kind of suspect when you look at the pitcher’s logic. i think they try as hard as they can to get every batter out. runners on base could be something that affects it, though
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
"futile?"
He had a .368 OBP and a .345 wOBA…. that’s pretty damn good for being “futile”
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
tlr only sees the past
hence touting lberk as one of the 5-6 best hitters in the nl
prepostrous
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
In 2008, Berkman was the 4th best hitter in the majors
acording to wRC+ (162), behind only Albert, Chipper, and Manny.
In 2009, he was twelfth in the NL (141), ahead of guys like Tulo and Werth.
In 2010, Berkman’s numbers were down and he was hurt early in the year.
In 2011, Bill James projects Berkman to bounce back with a wRC+ 143, which would put him in the top 10 or so.
You can count yourself as among those who don’t think Berkman will bounce back, but legitimate statistical projections support TLR’s statement.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 6, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
also his BABIP was .282, below his career average of .317
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
by stlcardsfan4 on Dec 7, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
GOB i wish they would bat holliday in front of pujols
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
by IHeartBoog on Dec 6, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but that would just make too much sense
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
fuck
I shoulda known that Larussa would fuck it up. you gotta bat Berkman 2nd!!! or move Holliday there if not.
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Never. Gonna. Happen.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
How sick would a 1-5 of
Theriot, Berkman, Holliday, Pujols, Rasmus look? I’m liking the thought of Pujols moving to clean-up more and more as time goes on.
Padres' RFL for GG!
I mean
It honestly doesn’t really matter
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
"That's not true!
My lineup machinations win ballgames!"
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Argh
They sign a guy who actually gets on base a lot, then they bad him down in the order where it doesn’t matter so much because the remaining lineup is so terrible.
That’s the pure genius of TLR – he always manages to minimize the talent he is given,
But Howard puts butts in the seats!
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Yeah
when they sit back down after he strikes out again…
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
by Rejuvenile on Dec 6, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 10 recs
zing
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
I may very well turn into a rec whore
now that I have my first.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
first Green, that is
I’ve gotten rec’s before, just with girls you wouldn’t know.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
Boras said he expected Wreth to get Holliday money
How he pulled it off i don’t know.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Matt Holliday
has been worth 33.3 WAR over 7 years
Jasyon has been Werth 22.2 WAR over 8 years
2 WAR difference in 2010
.7 WAR difference in 2009
.8 WAR difference in 2008
3.9 WAR difference in 2007
That’s not the same player. And Werth is older to boot.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
C'mon
that’s not even remotely an accurate comparison. Werth wasn’t given an everyday role and struggled with injuries early in his career. This is one of the more disingenuous comparisons I’ve seen.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
2 WAR difference last year
and I don’t think Werth having injury problems in his past is a plus when comparing long term contracts to older players.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
even if you only look at 2008 going forward, when werth became an everyday player
holliday still has better numbers. werth’s 08-10 seasons don’t match up with holliday’s career numbers. werth is very good, but holliday is slightly better. so the fact that werth ended up with a better deal from a team that does not typically overpay is puzzling.
and also holliday was 2 WAR better than werth in werth’s best offensive season.
You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity. No, we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball. --Albert Einstein
OK, compare these stats then (from Baseball Reference)
Jayson Werth over the last 4 years = 15.4 WAR in 2,114 PA = 5.1 WAR/700 PA
Matt Holliday over the last 5 years = 26.4 WAR in 3,348 PA = 5.5 WAR/700 PA
Werth over the last 6 years = 18.5 WAR in 2,835 PA = 4.6 WAR/700 PA
Holliday over the last 6 years = 27.4 WAR in 3,874 PA = 5.0 WAR/700 PA
Werth over the last 2 years = 8.4 WAR in 1,328 PA = 4.4 WAR/700 PA
Holliday over the last 2 years = 10.5 WAR in 1,345 PA = 5.5 WAR/700 PA
A player who is a year older, who has an injury history (although healthy the last two years), and is less effective when he’s played, getting more per year over the same length of time? This is a significant overpay relative to his peer group.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
by Rejuvenile on Dec 6, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he's not really getting more than Holliday...
baseball salary inflation has bee >5%
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
Inflation doesn't count here
Holliday will get paid $17MM/year over the next 6 years, with a vesting option for another $17MM.
Werth will get paid $18MM/year (AAV) over the next 7 years.
18>17
It’s not like Holliday is getting a Cost of Living Adjustment each year to bring his salary in line with inflation.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
You're looking at it from the player's perspective...
In 2009, Mo had to spend $120 million to get Holliday. If Mo had tried to buy Holliday in 2010, he would’ve had to spend more than $126 million. Conversely, if the Nats had tried to buy a Werth in 2009, they would have spent $120 million or less. If you’re talking real dollars, the two contracts are the same.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
It was ~4.5MM/WAR in 2009, ~4.0MM/WAR in 2010
Deflation, not inflation. But still keep in mind, that’s just an average for all transactions – and big ones like Holliday’s greatly influence those averages. See post below for the 2009/2010 difference.
I'm not seeing deflation on the upper end this year...
granted I don’t have a comprehensive analysis, but Dunn is getting double what he was offered last time around and he’s the same/worse player, Arroyo’s contract is mind-boggling, Benoit, Barajas, etc…
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
I think all the low contracts matter for the big picture
1WAR/1MM type deals, which tend to happen at the end.
oh wait...
I’m comparing the offseason that ocurred after the 2009 season to the one currently happening.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
I don't see that
Even if you were to take the 2010 Werth history and put it into the 2009 league market, and swap it for the 2009 Holliday history and put it in the 2010 league market, Werth doesn’t get the contract he’s getting unless the Nationals are stupid enough to sign him to it. They might be foolish enough to sign last year’s Holliday to a similarly stupid deal, but to match the same level of idiocy, they would probably have to tack on another year (Holliday is now 2 years younger than Werth) and even more money (Holliday is still more productive, by either measure, and coming off of an amazing last 2 months of the regular season).
The situation is different for ’10 Werth in the ’09 market because Holliday had already been fattened up on Midwestern pies for several months. But were he given the same treatment, he comes in at (significantly) less years and dollars per than Holliday got.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
Not necessarily, right?
Holliday 2009 WAR: 5.6. Holliday 2009 value: 25.1MM. 4.48MM/WAR.
Holliday 2010 WAR: 6.9. Holliday 2010 value: 26.9MM. 4.0MM/WAR.
I happen to be using Holliday as the example, but it illustrates the (downward) variance in Fangraphs’ year-to-year WAR/$ calculations.
Same frames of reference, using Fangraphs #'s
Werth over 4 = 5.4 WAR/700
Werth over 6 = 6.0
Werth over 2 = 5.2
Holliday over 5 = 6.0 WAR/700
Holliday over 6 = 6.4
Holliday over 2 = 6.5
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
You have to timestamp the WAR relative to their contracts
You shouldn’t use Matt Holliday’s awesome 2010 to evaluate his current contract. We had no knowledge of that at the time. You should be comparing 2009 Matt Holliday to 2010 Jayson Werth.
MH = JW+1
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
OK, here are the numbers
09 Holliday over 5 years (2005-2009) = 5.8 WAR/700 PA
09 Holliday over 6 years = 5.3
09 Holliday over 2 years = 6.1
And I actually had the over 4/5 years and over 6 years numbers backward on my 10:37 am post, so 2010 Werth compares with 6.0, 5.4, and 5.2 WAR/700 PA. Werth stacks up pretty well if you look simply at his rate stats over the long haul, meaning he’s a fairly comparable player. But… Werth isn’t coming off of a 5.6 WAR season (Holliday 2009), with an unbelievable August and September, and he still has those issues of prior history with injuries and being 2 seasons older than Holliday at the time he signed the contract.
Werth’s profile is significantly less than Holliday’s, even looking at the LegoMan from a year ago. Going forward, I don’t see Werth putting up similar production to Holliday, even in the near term, never mind as they each pass the mid-way points in their (remaining) contracts.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
yeah don't do that...
I’m willing to concede Holliday is a little bit better, and he is a year younger, but don’t go cherry picking arbitrary dates to make a point.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
I picked those dates
because those were the dates when werth had at lease comparible playing time.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
i could go back to the beginning of each of theirs careers
it would get more slated for Holliday.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
why would you do that?
Werth has posted three straight 5 war seasons with rock solid evidence that he excels at all aspects of the game. The fact that he got injured a lot and wasn’t given an opportunity to play in 2007 and earlier doesn’t really provide any insight on what he’s likely to do in the future.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
which is why i didn't do that
I just used the FOUR BEST SEASONS in Werth’s Career, to illustrate how he is no Matt Holliday. You were the one who jumped be for cherry picking arbitrary dates.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
He hasn't been Holliday in the past...
but we’re talking about what the two players are likely to be in the future. The market doesn’t care about Werth’s early career travails. They don’t impact his future.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
He isn't going to be Holliay in the future either
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Werth is to Holliday
as Votto is to Pujols
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I don't like this comparison.
Votto is much younger than Pujols. Werth is older than Holliday, if I’m not mistaken.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
maybe he means by age projection
Votto came into his own at 26, Pujols at 21
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
he's trying to say that Werth is the newcomer with...
no track record, while Holliday is old reliable.
Of course this analogy wildly exaggerates the records of both Werth and Holliday.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
talent now and going forward
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
I'm not sure the Pujols-Votto comparison...
is really illuminating. I think we’re just confusing matters further.
Three straight years of 5 WAR with excellent power, excellent plate discipline, and excellent defense is enough to indicate about where he will perform over the next seven years.
If he had five or seven straight years of 5 WAR with excellent power, excellent plate discipline, and excellent defense it would be a mistake to be significantly more confident about the next seven years.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
I'm saying a guy with an injury history and
Three straight close to 5 WAR (5.1 4.9 5.0) is not worth the same amount of money as a guy without an injury history and three straight about 5 WAR (5.7, 5.6, 6.9) who also happens to not have a history of injury.
Holliday has been worth .6 WAR or more over the course of Werth’s best years and is younger with a history of being healthier.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
So... no track record beyond 2 years of health and three of production
leads you to believe that Werth will be, not just the same player, but a better player, over the next 7 years, especially entering his age 32 season? And you’re more confident in that assessment than if he had remainded healthy and productive over a five to seven year stretch?
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
I'm not saying any of that...
I’ve already said Holliday seems slightly better than Werth – I just don’t think the divergent reaction to the two contracts is warranted. The contracts are the same, Holliday is slightly better and a year younger. So we got a slightly better deal than the Nats.
The problem is that GMs are mad their efforts to suppress salaries have failed (as usual) and the media is vacuuming up the vitriol and adding some of its own (Werth is a #5 hitter! He’s a complementary player! He had a low BA with RISP in 2010!). All of that is silly.
To a lesser extent it’s also silly to worry about his track record over the past eight years or whatever – he has a good excuse for not performing ie injuries and a lack of opportunity. His injuries are pretty solidly in the rear view mirror, so I wouldn’t expect him to not get a Holliday-esque contract because of that.
The “bats__t insane” response is all about irritated GMs feeding red meat to media idiots like Olney and Heyman and Rosenthal who are too stupid to evaluate players objectively.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
i feel that
Werth is a tier below Holliday and I would value him more along 13-15 Mil range with less years due to his injury history and being an older player.
But really it’s water under the bridge. it’s the off season. It’s not like there are games to talk about.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
what you said
I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!
by martimeryard on Dec 6, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
i think he's referring to track record
pujols has his history to back him up…votto not so much
I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!
by martimeryard on Dec 6, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe not...
but there’s no reason to think he’ll be much worse, at least no reason you or anyone else has come up with.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
Similar but not enough to warrant a better contract.
Holliday owns a career .317 AVG, while Werth’s sits at .272. (Career OBP and SLG weigh in Holliday’s favor as well.) Holliday’s track record as a productive, durable and consistent hitter goes back 6+ years. Werth’s only had 3 good years in Philly. Then there’s the age difference that’s already been mentioned.
The fact that Boras did not even attempt to have other teams match the offer is an indicator he realized how ridiculously lucrative this offer was for his client. And that he’d better pull the trigger before the Nats changed there minds!
"Beckett’s retired 19 batters through Six and a third innings, he’s having a phenomonal night…" --Tim McCarver
Can we please not use BA?
I’m as big of a fan of .300 hitters as you’ll find, but I don’t even know how to translate BA into any sort of useful measure of a player’s offensive skill. Can we use wOBA?
Also, Werth had 4 consecutive years of a wOBA at or above .382 for the Phillies. 2007 was a shortened year, but he still put up a very nice rate stat.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
I'm not involved, but
If you’re comparing offense, I suggest park-adjusted rate stats (wRC+ or wOBA*).
Would like to see those, too.
Many will give the old argument, “But Holliday played all those years at Coors!” The counter-argument is that Werth’s park in Philly quite cozy as well.
"Beckett’s retired 19 batters through Six and a third innings, he’s having a phenomonal night…" --Tim McCarver
I'll leave that to the saber-savvy kidz. ;)
Would like to see LD% comparisons, too. I have a hunch LD% and other saber-info would corroborate Holliday’s case.
"Beckett’s retired 19 batters through Six and a third innings, he’s having a phenomonal night…" --Tim McCarver
holliday also knocks in more RBI
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
aw c'mon, lay off
if the RBI wasn’t an important stat, why’d they name the best baseball game ever after it, hmmm?
oh i agree with you
rubs are the most important part of the game. and they have to be batted in. therefore! runs batted in is the most important stat in the world
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
rubbing booties intently
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
"I like Howard. He's a rubs guy."
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Excuse me?
I believe this guy is the best around.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
File photo of Scott Boras giving Mike Rizzo the business.
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We're not Werthy.....
James Werthy!
;=8)
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
David Freese reports that his ankles exist!
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Moost be Verified....
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
agree with the cow
never believe just one source
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
We can rebuilt him...
…we have the technology, we can make him faster, stronger, able to run the bases without blowing out an ankle…
Tastee Freese IS: the Bionic Cardinal.
;=8)
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
"Tastee Freese"
Ha. Nice work, Mr. Moo.
"Beckett’s retired 19 batters through Six and a third innings, he’s having a phenomonal night…" --Tim McCarver
I still hope we can haz a reliable back-up plan.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Barring acquisitions, the stated backup plan appears to be Craig
Recent quotes indicated that he’d be practicing at 3B.
We’ve also still got T Greene, and there are people like Crede on the market.
Acutally, I hoping that Lil Carp goes ape-shit in ST.
I’m betting that’s going to be the best back-up plan we can hope for. Although, I could live with Crede on a MiLB contract like Kallaway said below.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
I see Craig as MLB back up,
with Carp v2.0 staying at AAA until / unless Freese goes down.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
You're probably right, but you can't blame a guy for hoping.
It’s almost Christmas after all.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Crede!
MiLB contract, please.
"Beckett’s retired 19 batters through Six and a third innings, he’s having a phenomonal night…" --Tim McCarver
I thought that was Carp
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Carp was Beta testing.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
how do we know this wasn't just some fever dream of bj rains' after eating a ham sandwich that had been at the back of his fridge since August?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
I'm confident that no sandwich has survived that long in Rains' vicinity.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Dec 6, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
everything is progressing nicely
Is Rains sure he was interviewing Freese, or was someone from the medical staff throwing their voice?
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Dec 6, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
The medical staff has brainwashed Freese.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
notice how Barry Weinberg follows him during a Thanksgiving charity drive...
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
so he's no longer head trainer
because he was assigned to freese and freese only? Excellent idea!
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
"His injury contributed to the Cardinals['] eventual second place finish...
in the N.L. Central Division when Felipe Lopez was overexposed after being thrust into the everyday third base role as his replacement." Ah, so it’s Freese’s fault that the Cards didn’t win the division.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 6, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
his injury certianily didn't help
Really hurt the offense and later ended up with us picking up pedro feliz
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
We picked up Feliz before Freese'
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 6, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
crap. SBn'd
We picked up Feliz before Freese’s injury (that is, the one that landed him on the DL in June.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 6, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Scrap that.
I keep getting Pedro Feliz and Felix Lopez mixed up.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 6, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
really, felix lopez's attitude problem only began once he had to room with that awful slob oscar ryan.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
by tom s. on Dec 6, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
these dates tells another story
freese done for season – aug 3
cards acquire feliz – aug 19
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
think of it as a compliment to Freese
when his bat (admittedly BABIP-fueled) left the offense, then they went downhill speaking to how good Freese was
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
A-Gon presser is on right now
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Cards HOFers on yet another Simmons miss
from BJ Rains. Why? Why? Did he master the art of the elevator hold button or something?
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
Ok...
..now I’m gonna go to my SBNation Raiders page and celebrate the whoop-ass we put on the Bolts!
:=8D
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
;=8)
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
As a quasi-Chiefs fan
I would like to thank the Raiders for that. Now if you could just be good and lose out.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Hear, hear!
Heartily seconded on both counts by this Chiefs fan.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
:=8P
We’re baaaaaaack!
;=8)
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
Remember when we kept boog and made bryan Anderson our back up catcher
Wait, what? That was just the dream I had last night. Well damn. Now I’m sad
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 6, 2010 11:20 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Dunc quoted in P-D on a related subject
“I think each year that role becomes even more important,” said pitching coach Dave Duncan. “You want to keep Yadi at his best. … I really don’t want somebody who is defensively suspect. Our pitchers have grown accustomed to taking that part of the game serious. Our pitchers would be the first one to react.”
If the pitchers would react to a worse defensive BACKUP catcher (Anderson), it’s not clear to me why they wouldn’t react even more strongly to a worse defensive EVERY DAY SS (Theriot).
This is why I wish entire interviews were posted.
Quite obviously, TLR has overused Yadi in recent seasons, which undermines Duncan’s assertion that, “You want to keep Yadi at his best.” Or, at least, it makes their desire one that they will not succomb to by playing a back-up. Furthermore, as you point out, why would they not have similar feelings about the defense at second base or shortstop?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Carpenter obvoiusly does
though sometimes players get into that who “grit” thing themselves.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Personally, I don't read too much into the Carp/Boog incident
As far as consistent defensive preferences are concerned, the only one I’ve heard stated is that Pineiro insisted that Ryan start at SS if possible while he was pitching.
"obviously"?
Carpenter is the same guy who said he didn’t want anyone other than Brendan Ryan behind him.
have fun eating that ESPN fodder.
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
...
I don’t see how my point that Carpenter Obviously cares about his short stop performance is rebutted by you stating that Carpenter has said so himself.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Think yadi2 missed your point
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 6, 2010 12:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
may the grit thing muddled my point
I’ll restate clearer.
Carpenter obviously cares about defensive performance, he has even stated to the press that he want’s Brendan Ryan starting at short-stop everything he takes the mound. So it wouldn’t surprise me if the rest of the staff follows suit in caring about defensive performance. Another example of this would be when Mo asked the pitchers if they would prefer a bat or Defense at 3rd. And we ended up with Pedro Feliz.
However; players sometime due by into this whole gritty thing. When Skip makes a diving stop and barely throws out someone on a ball who an average second baseman would have got to standing up and thrown them out by a few steps, plays may confuse this as Skip being a good defensive second baseman. So why they do care about defense, they may still support bringing in a bad defender over a good one depending on reputation…
That being said I don’t think you can compare wanting to have a guy who you know will block your two strike curve in the dirt to a shortstop/second base man. But I’, sure the pitching staff does care about the defense that is behind them.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Fuckin a
It’s some hypocritical shit. First of all, I seriously doubt the defensive difference between Anderson and a larue type is more than minimal over the few games the get. Add on the increased offense Anderson brings and it’s at least a wash. Secondly, we’ll leak more runs with an average starting SS than we will with a below average BACKUP catcher. Ugh, it’s disgusting.
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 6, 2010 11:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with your sentiment
However, I think they really do plan on playing our backup C more regularly in 2011+.
They've said that 2 years running
I’ll believe it when I see it
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 6, 2010 11:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
hopefully the backup will be better than Jason Larue
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Mark Reynolds slowly heading in the direction of Baltimore, Maryland
is “who would you rather have at this stage of his career, ignoring contract, Reynolds or Ryan Howard” a fair question?
Save Boog
It's an easy question.
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
I hope you would answer
Ryan Howard to that easy question.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
on MLBTR
they say the ‘Stros have made Keppinger available. A quick, uneducated look at his offense shows he may have a little better bat then Theriot. I don’t know about his fielding. What’s his deal?
He's abysmal at SS from what I recall
worse than Theriot. He’s more a utility guy (Miles edition).
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
He did a good job impersonating a MLB 2B last year.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
Cowboys quarterback, MNF broadcaster, and iced tea pitchman
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Dec 6, 2010 11:49 AM EST reply actions
turn out the lights, the parties over, RIP cowboy
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
exactly my thoughts when I heard it
RIP Dandy Don
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 6, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
did he hate bing called that? i remembered he didn't like it
but of course all day people have been calling him that
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
I don't know,
it’s just what I remember him being called. I do remember him singing “turn out the lights…” on MNF. And the fact that he didn’t seem to care for Howard Cossell much of the time.
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 7, 2010 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
ya & wasn't howard the one who gave him that name?
that’s why i thought he didn’t like it. i’m not old enough to have seen him play, i just remember the random mnf games
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
(oops, hit the return key) I think you're right
about Howard giving him the nickname, so he probably didn’t like it. I do remember him playing, a little, I never liked him when he played ’cause he played for the Cowboys, but I did like him in the booth.
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 7, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
that enter key is a pain in the arse sometimes
everyone has said that today, didn’t like him because he played for the Cowboys but loved him on mnf. too funny
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
fantastique. via dgoold. gooooooooooooold.
- #Padres in the need of a shortstop. “Trade for a veteran is possible,” GM Hoyer says. Could be landing spot for B-Ryan. #stlcards 4 minutes ago via web
- @dgoold and what would you like in return? 3 minutes ago via TweetDeck in reply to dgoold
- @the_bj Luke Gregerson, right? 3 minutes ago via web in reply to the_bj
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
aight, I'm out
keep us posted
Lick that shoulder—you're in the doghouse now.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there..." - THT
if they trade Ryan for Luke Gregerson i'm going to bang my head
on the Ozzie smith statue
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Let's trade them Theriot for Gregerson.
Then the aggregate is a swap of Blake Hawksworth (our worst reliever) for Gregerson (one of our top relievers).
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
that would be great
which would mean that Gregerson was traded from the Cardinals to the Padres for a short stop. And then from the Padres to the Cardinals for a shortstop.
However, trading from a position of weakness to a position of strength is not something this FO has a history of doing.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Gregerson is one of the best relievers in ALL OF BASEBALL. Ugh.
Unfortunately, no way is he available for our spare parts…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
how'd we let that one go?
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
just a freak result, i guess
he’s hit like his top 1-percentile of projected production. His major league FIP and xFIP have been way better than anything he put up in the minors. K rate too.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
I don’t think anyone saw him being that good
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
oh god please shut up Jon Heyman
SI_JonHeyman
theriot is #cardinals ss at least “for now.” Don’t count them out on bartlett. So far, asking price on bartlett just 2 rich for cards
Save Boog
To piggyback your comment.
theriot is #cardinals ss at least “for now.” Don’t count them out on bartlett. So far, asking price on bartlett just 2 rich for cards
@SI_JonHeyman ~ They’d have to move some money to get that done, too.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Loshe straight up
Do it now Mo! (or Tony, since you know, he makes all the moves)
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
wait a second
Can someone tell me what this means?
Such a move would shift Theriot to second base and likely put second baseman-outfielder Skip Schumaker and his $2.7 million salary in play.
Is Strauss suggesting that bring in barrlett could ship out Skip?
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
isn't Strauss a unicorn ?....maybe for once he isn't ?
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Strauss isn't a unicorn
You need unicorns to protect you from Strauss. I’m just making sure I read that correctly.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
sorry , was unclear on the unicorn deal....
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I imagine Y2S can clear up the origins.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
What could the Cards actually GET for Skip is my question.
I just don’t see the market for a guy who’s questionable defensively at his current position, doesn’t have the bat to man a corner OF spot on a regular basis, doesn’t have the defense to handle CF, can’t hit lefties at all, and makes 2.7 million.
Isn’t “late innings corner OF defensive replacement for a Manny type” the sort of thing that’s supposed to be floating around every team’s AAA affiliate?
i dunno
unless TLR has convinced the rest of the MLB that he could be a gold glove CFer who can also play second.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
If Jeter could win a GG at short last year,
I’m not convinced Skip couldn’t win one. At second, even.
What does Skip's tally sheet on the World Supermodel Bagging Challenge look like?
Plus he needs a cool nickname like “Mr. November”.
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
If Fat Beaker can get Karina Smirnoff,
I’m not convinced Skip couldn’t sack Cheryl Burke. And Lacey Schwimmer, even.
unfortunately Skip is married.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
He might argue
Fortunately. And then his wife would give you the frownie face.
>:-(
by JWO on Dec 6, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
i laughed and then i realized you were a guy
then i was confused…
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
sarcasm kiddos.
although i think my girlfriend would argue that “unfortunately” is the absolute perfect word to use.
(sigh…)
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Salary relief.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
This was suggested last week by Mozeliak.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
Correction: No P-D link in that post.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
looks like 13 might be available ...... weep
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.I don't know what you're talking about,"
Wilson said when asked (if he puts shoe polish on his beard). "It's dark because we play a lot of day games. It's tanned. It's focused."
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I would prefer not to see him as a LOOGY
Because he throws right-handed.
I, for one, would love to get Uehara. Sure, he’s a flyball pitcher, but he also had an 11:1 K/BB ratio last year.
agreed
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
"Cool" in relative terms I'm assuming.
The only thing that I’ve found cool about Star Trek in my own personal descriptive measures is Captain Kirk somehow coercing a green woman into bed with him and avoiding interplanetary STD’s in the process.
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
count me in as surprised at these big contracts
but I guess there’s also the fact that there aren’t very many big name players on the market this season. Also, this guy is a longhair and a suspicious looking bearded one, why should he get THAT kind of money!? he’s a bum!!
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:07 PM EST reply actions
He's just cashing in.
He’s Mr. Money In The Bank!!
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
long lost brother?
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Jayson Werth is Edge. Edge is Jayson Werth.
Jayson Werth is the Rated R Superstar
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
what about Jax from Sons of Anarchy
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
The resemblance is uncanny
VivaElBirdos: Celebrating glorious mustaches since 2009
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 6, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Conext-free B Ryan alerts from the MLB Trade Rumors iOS app scare me :(
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/pirates-rumors-kawakami-brendan-ryan.html
Langosch says the Pirates have mild interest in Cardinals shortstop Brendan Ryan. Dejan Kovacevic of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette says the Pirates continue to discuss shortstops with many teams, including J.J. Hardy with the Twins.
Doesn’t sound threatening, yet.
holy crap, it will be weird to tune into Pirates games to see Ozzie Smith level of defense.
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
didn't he retire?
he can disapprove all he wants from retirement!
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Life between the shadows and gloom...
My intense hatred of JASON MARQUIS keeps me warm and toasty at night. Believe!
:=8O
I'd actually really like it if the Mariners traded for Boog
He’s a younger Jack Wilson
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Rob Johnson for backup catcher!!
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I forgot
sacred cow alert
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
It's not sacred cow
He’s widely considered the best defender in history at SS and is in the running for “any position”. Brendan Ryan does not lay indisputable claim to being the best SS right now, let alone do it for the next 10+ years.
Not afraid to nitpick
by my eye, he was about equal
sure, not quite Ozzie good, but quite close imo
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
yes, something like that
I know he’s not AS good as Ozzie, but he’s pretty damn close.
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
defensively
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Beat me to the punch.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
I want numbers people
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
oh yeah, no UZR for Ozzie
amirite? all I know is that Brendan Ryan is ALREADY 41st all time in TZR
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
No UZR, but there is TZ
- all time at SS is Mark Belanger with a +241 rField over 15337.1 SS innings
- is Ozzie with a +239 over 21785.2 SS innings
Cal Ripken is a much more distant third. I find it interesting that nobody seems to talk about Belanger, though his TZ rate is significantly higher than Ozzie’s.
As for all-time TZ numbers, at any position
- is Brooks Robinson with +294
- is Belanger’s +241
- is Andruw Jones with +240
- is Ozzie’s +239
wow, Brooks Robinson was an insanely good fielder
new that, but this illustrates it even further.
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
god, i forget how andruw jones was good once.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
I'm using Baseball-Reference
But I’m able to look it up easily because I have a Play-Index subscription.
No I mean
How is it calculated?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Using math.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Dec 6, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Using box score data
As much as was contained: putouts, double-plays, etc.
Sean Smith (AKA Rally, AKA Chone) is its creator. Google on him and TotalZone to get details, although I bet a lot of them are available at Baseball-Reference now that he takes care of their advanced stats.
Ozzie vs Ryan TZ
Ozzie has a 13 Rtot/yr (TZ runs per 1200 innings).
Ryan has a 21.
I think it’s worth noting that Ozzie’s numbers declined in his last 5 years, though, and that Ryan hasn’t yet had the opportunity to play into his twilight.
Ozzie’s peak Rtot/yr was 29, with most in the mid-teens. Ryan – shortened seasons, all – is 29, 21, 26, and 16 for his career.
Is Ryan equal, or even better? I don’t know, but TZ seems to like him better.
yeah, it would be more fair to compare the beginning of ozzie's career to the beginning of boog's
it would be a shame if Ryan is not allowed to play much on whatever team is to be on. he just saves a shit ton of runs.
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
the thing is, he's just made so many plays that I've never seen ANYONE make
that’s why I compared him to Ozzie
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
yes, it seems to back up my observations pretty well
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
For better or for worse?
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
Regular major league infields are groomed so well
That I think the difference in hops between grass and turf doesn’t really play a significant factor.
thinking about throws too
it’s easier for a 1B to judge a pick off of turf. have a good 1B who can pick it from anywhere in front of him.
I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!
Like Bob Horner and Pedro Guerroro.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
IIRC
ozzie figured out how to throw the ball to make it go faster off of a bounce right?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Davey Concepcion. . .
is generally credited with that innovation, although Ozzie certainly used it liberally.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
also plays faster
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Marty Marion
When asked about Ozzie Smith, Marion said [paraphrasing], “Ozzie couldn’t carry my jock strap. Anybody can field on a pool table.”
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
and the fact that the majors were not chock-full of comparably elite defenders at the time
means what . . . ? they were all playing on different surfaces, and only ozzie had the quarter inch of turf on concrete to play off of?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Oh, I'm not defending Marion or Ozzie
It was just an interesting quote I found while doing some research on my eventual 1935-1959 25-for-25 Cardinals team.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
i was more "responding" to marion than you.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Is there a way to look up
defensive metrics that split between turf and grass. i don’t know how you guys do it sometimes
I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!
One thing to remember is that...
those TZ numbers are as compared to league average and Ozzie and Brendan played in different eras.
The average league range factor per 9 innings in 1982 was 5.01, when Ozzie’s was 5.87. In 2010, Boog’s range factor per nine innings was 5.01, when the league average was 4.31.
In other words, in 2010, Boog’s range factor per nine innings was the same as the league average in 1982 (Ozzie’s was much higher than league average). There is at least some evidence that the population of shortstops today isn’t as defensively “rangy” as the population in the early 80’s.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 6, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you for this.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Not surprising.
Since Ripken was kinda the prototype for the new SS. Much bigger, better hitting with more power than the SS of old had to be.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
All we can do is compare people to their peers.
Unique perspective on RF though, very cool to have at least one isolated variable like that. Thanks for dropping it!
just think how utterly ridiculous Ozzie would have been if Dave Duncan was the pitching coach back then
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
not that he wasn't already utterly ridiculous
trust me, I was one of the biggest Wizard fans around
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Sentencing Ryan to the Pirates
Would be too cruel. Even the GOBs aren’t that mean-spirited.
by JWO on Dec 6, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
he should go to the team that's known for a pitch to contact philosophy, that tries to induce more groundballs
oh wait
(that joke just never gets old imo)
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
red sox interested in ron mahay
who do we play in interleague this year? stay away from my lohse
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
East, but we miss the Sox.
Which pisses me off because we’re supposed to take the boys to Fenway this year, if the youngest’s grades hold up. They play in Baltimore for sure, I might try to catch them there.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Ozzie speaks about Brendan
Per Goold:
“It just appears that he’s a guy that somebody gave up on,” Smith said this morning at the Winter Meetings. “Certainly, from a defensive standpoint he has all of the capabilities. But he became a guy who was afraid to make a mistake. For anybody who has been around this game, you know that you’ve got to play this game knowing that mistakes are going to be made. You just learn from those mistakes.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
pfft! what would he know?
oh wait.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
"Apparently he's fallen out of favor with whoever over there"
Ozzie talking TLR on Ozzie. I mean, TLR on Ryan.
Right.
It’s very clear that Ozzie is implying a similarity with that statement.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
ha!
ozzie just loves tony, doesn’t he?
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Ozzie for manager!!!!!!!!!!!!!
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
From MLBTR: "Langosch says the Pirates have mild interest in Cardinals shortstop Brendan Ryan."
Could this be Karma calling for our Ozzie surplus?
apparently they know that having superb defense at shortstop is one of the keys to a great team
too bad the Cardinals don’t know this
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
If Brendan Ryan. . .
can corral all of the screaming line drives to the wall that your typical Pirates pitcher gives up, then I am truly misunderestimating him.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, there's that
just saying that most teams would value a shortstop like him highly
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
we ought to be able to get a pretty good return then
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
perhaps should would have been a better word choice
we’ll see
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
the interesting thing is
that we know that only one of the worst teams in the league is only mildly interested
fwiw :-/
apparently defense at short is not valued as highly as it should be these days
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
the worst teams
need to be very careful what message they are sending, there is little a team like the Pirates could point to in starting Boog that would pump up their fanbase
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
although
I have been wondering if signing Theriot and them “saying” he is the new starting shortstop is just a ploy to get him to be fired up for spring training and steal the show.
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
More from Strauss
While Mozeliak notes that Ryan could remain with the club, manager Tony La Russa on Saturday emphasized the potential significance of Tyler Greene with next year’s team.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
No
I’m the one who says that Mo deserves blame/credit for it. Since it is ultimately his job to construct the roster
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
That's just not the way. . .
power struggles work.
Granted, Mo still probably takes the fall before TLR anyway.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
apparently they work in such a way
that we, who have no real insight on the front office, are able to put a weight on how much a move was Tony’s and how much a move was Mo’s. Which is pretty much if we like it, it was all Mo, and if we hate it, it was all Tony.
But i’ve gotten a few people to come around.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Mo is in a very difficult position. . .
He’s caught in the middle between:
(1) a pushy, cantankerous HOF manager whose MO includes:
- preferring veterans to young players, all else being equal
- running players out of town on a rail, often poisoning their trade value on their way out
and
(2) an ownership that:
- clearly prefers to build in the more traditional, build up the farm system way
- sticks scrupulously to a budget
- take pains not to call out the HOF manager in public.
I suspect that Mo is actually more secure than many of us suspect, seeing as how he generally is the public face of the owners’ preferred plans to build a team. One would hope that the owners would reward him with job security for being their frontman/water-carrier/human shield agains the barbs of those of us blogging and commenting from our parents’ basements.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
boog + boggs for bartlett?
just to confuse them
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
That 'leaking' payroll bit that Mo threw out there was cute.
Leaking like our 2011 middle infield one could say…?
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
+1 obligatory derp reply
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
to be fair
it doesn’t have any context
Strauss : So Mo, is it certain that Ryan will be gone by the start of spring training?
Mo: No, Ryan could remain on the Roster.
Strauss: Tony, with the addition of Theriot, is there a spot on this roster for Tyler Greene?
Tony: Tyler Greene is a guy who can play short, second, and third. And could be a significant piece of our roster next season .
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
the big surprise for me is
I wouldn’t think Tony would want Greene anywhere near his team after what happened last season.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
What happened?
Did he kill a man? Or a dog? Or a kitten?
Oh wait. He just followed the contract that governs roster machinations for MLB clubs? What a letdown…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
what he did was say
“I can play in a few days” “I can play in a few days” “I can play today” “oh, you are sending be down? I can’t play”
If he would have started with the “I can’t play” he could have hit the DL a lot sooner and our bench wouldn’t have been short. This is the kind of thing bosses don’t like.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
This is all speculation.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
It is a little speculation
I can tell you that TLR wasn’t happy in the post game when it got brought up. But it’s good to see he is over it, no mater how big or small it really was.
I didn’t get on base. One time I did (Wednesday) and we scored a run. That shows if I get on base, things can happen - Oilspill
Tyler is being groomed to be the new Miles?
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I really wish TLR had retired.
The guy just makes me re-tired.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Is "re-tired" offensive?
I keed…
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
by Rejuvenile on Dec 6, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
heh
it’s pretty close, I dunno
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I have a family member with narcolepsy
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
by albrtfn on Dec 6, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
This is funny...
I called to make sure…
"I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher." Rogers hornsby.
Wait - does this mean I can't call Cub fans "douchebags"
because I would be making fun of their condition (being Cub fans) in a hurtful way?
Ms Bitters (Invader Zim): Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less now.
just gave me an idea
Next time someone does something completely ignorant/stupid I’m just going to say “[scoff], what a Cubs fan.” Since that is what the use of pejoratives really entails. Insulting a random person by including them in a group of people with some kind of deficiency.
If this catches on, within a few years calling someone a Cubs fan as an insult will be on par with the N-word, six letter F-word, or R-word!
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
You mean it isn't already?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
that would have been nice
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
loved their draft this year.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2010 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
MLBTR is blowing up today
melvin mora signed with the dbacks for 2/$4MM
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
nobody better say they're bored
mo will read it and panic again
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Lee is talking to more teams than yanks and rangers...warning complete daydream approaching...
a rotation of Waino, Lee, Garcia, Carp, Westie. Then we’d say, look pujols…do you want to be the marquis player for history and he’ll say, ok mang its a team and there is no I in it and I am wealthy enough to buy my kids a college. So, sure lets win.
Bah.
We wouldn’t even need offense then. Keep Boog, move The Riot to 2B, and put Skippy at 1B.
????
Profit?
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
If they do that, I would promise the FO, ill .convince my company to buy season tix- they've been talking about it,
buy a few jerseys, and I already voted for Prop. B. So, Im good with TLR.
I've always liked Carl Crawford so....
I hope he didn’t hurt himself celebrating when he saw Werth’s contract.
by Sofanumber1 on Dec 6, 2010 2:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
if the cards get bartlett
who plays SS? metrics say theriot is the better defender
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
You're all missing the point.
We’ve got our new shortstop already. His name begins if “B” and rhymes with “Schmerkman.”
I wouldn’t put it past Tony.
no, i think that guy you're referring to
is our new 2nd baseman.
hey Mo: theriot at 2B, boog at SS.
KEEP BRENDAN RYAN.
I read today that the Cards are not after Bartlett anymore
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
where
the P-D article says they’re still looking
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Bernie's radio show today
TLR said they no longer have the payroll.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
that's what I figured
plus I saw on one of my prorumors or mlbtraderumors newsfeeds that the Cards backed out of the Bartlett thing
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
boog for bartlett straightup
MIGHT do that. bartlett would be a nice skip replacement at second if he’d do that
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Unsettling quotes from Cincy:
http://twitter.com/johnfayman/status/11865069755305984
http://twitter.com/stevehenson333/status/11864007740751872
Jock and Dusty are a train wreck waiting to happen…
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
since my connection kinda sucks at work
what’s the deal? not clicking links here
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
...
Dusty Baker: inclined to keep Chapman in the pen.
Baker: Votto told me he wants to stay. He just wasn’t ready to say he wants to stay the rest of life. #reds
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
thanks!
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I saw another tweet attributed to Baker,
stating that Chapman has no. 1 starter stuff, but also no. 1 bullpen stuff.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure of the exact context in which that first Dusty quote was taken...
but he sounds like he’s either attempting to be Votto’s agent or he’s developing a general fondness for Don King-esque idioms.
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
This is good news
Especially since Votto is known to be able to play second base, just like everyone else in the universe.
He's probably got Skip's range, but hits a whole lot better.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
i think "unsettling" is a poor choice of words as a cardinals fan
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
Jesus christ
I’m leading the “Chapman probably doesn’t look like a starter” bandwagon but for fucks sake, does Dusty have no concept of his contract clauses? There’s 0% chance they can make that contract fair with the arb awards if he is a closer. You at least have to give the guy a shot to figure out where his slider is going consistently. Besides, throwing 99-105 on every pitch can’t possibly be healthy.
Not afraid to nitpick
my thoughts on werth
wish i would have made different friends in Jr high
This guys so good(Pujols) He should be illegal-Pirates announcers
my girlfriend used to babysit jason
i don’t think she got paid enough
I may be in a rut, but at least I know where I'm going
...to DFA TLR
hey guys check it out
elsewhere on the internet i just called the call of duty series the nickelback of video games. that’s pretty funny isn’t it
disclaimer: nickelback fans will not get this joke
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
also
i think my jokes are funniest when i follow them with “that’s pretty funny isn’t it” right
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
"Friend" in college, when he was drunk. would end..
..every sentence with “right?”
He was not funny sober or drunk.
I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!
right?
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
I do not play that game, nor do I listen to nickelband
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
...and I would say that you are wise for avoiding the two.
I didn't know that chivalry still existed in your semi-savage country.
by The Classical on Dec 6, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
no time for video games for the most part
and music is my main area of interest, so I know what totally sucks. not that it is that hard with backnickels
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
But Nickelback is popular, so they have to be good, right?
[chokes back bile in back of throat]
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
yeah, popularity often shows what's not good in reality
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
i would have pegged you as a big nickelback fan
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
I once ordered "the most Nickelback shot ya got"
the bartender came back with two shots of water, and said “because i can’t poop in a shot glass”
I gave him a pretty big tip.
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
I've seen CFIC's music selections on Facebook (obscure and/or interesting)
The only we he’d be more the opposite than your statement would be to have as his signature, “I fucking HATE Nickelback”.
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
kinda embarassed about my 311 days though
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I have a few tapes and CD's that I'm not too proud of either
I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson
but at least 311 were bonafide good musicians
I’ve sold back countless cd’s because I’ve grown out of the band or the sound
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
they've never impressed me too much with their skills
it would be super weird hearing them play something that was interesting
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
i would MUCH rather listen to fallout boy
it’s all formulaic bullshit, but at least whoever write fallout boy’s songs for them can be slightly catchy. listening to nickelback is the rough equivalent of gluing sandpaper to the inside of my eyelids and blinking a lot
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
i wouldn't go to see either live
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
That music hasn't aged well.
I have fond memories of listening to it while driving around with my sunroof open.
if you just listen to grassroots or the blue album they aren't that bad
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
sure
I gotta say, most of the music I listened to back then is not what I usually want to listen to now
teenager vs thirtysomething
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
i make you embarassed to be a 311 fan?
….My birthday is actually 3-11 but I too liked 311
by mick311 on Dec 6, 2010 4:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
your username is also VERY 311 related
Mick is a great guitarist!
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
My birthday is also 311
I regret that I have never seen them on 311, I’ve heard its a good show. I look back on my 311 days pretty fondly.
by RasmustheRipper on Dec 6, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
emperor constantine liked this comment.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
I dont think that I have been lurking long enough
to know who emperor constantine is.
by RasmustheRipper on Dec 6, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
He renamed Byzantium Constantinople (now it's Instanbul not Constantinople, etc.)
History is fun.
by peach concrete on Dec 6, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
Holy 1990!
That guy’s outfit is great.
by peach concrete on Dec 6, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
I forgot all about that song.
Good one RR.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Mo?
The foremost general of his time, Constantine defeated the emperors Jocketty and Hendry during civil wars. He also fought successfully against the Phillies, Giants, Mets, and Braves during his reign – even resettling parts of Houston which had been abandoned during the previous century. Constantine also transformed the ancient Greek colony of St. Louis into a new imperial residence, Albertofstantinople, which would be the capital of the Baseball Empire for over one thousand years.
by RasmustheRipper on Dec 6, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Those eyes are just creepy.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Roman art was weird and stylized (and pretty much in decline) by that point. Not necessarily architecture, but realist art was. Here’s another creepy Constantine, this time in bronze:
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Is it invisible?
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
heh
/master of obvious
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Never played it. Probably never will.
That said, I’m listening to George Thorogood play “I drink alone” right now.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Cliff Lee on Yankees + Mark Reynolds on Orioles = how Ks for each this year?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
250 for both.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
As someone who hates when people complain that someone strikesout too much (outs be outs, yo!)
I gotta say, Mark Reynods strikes out too much.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
when you jack 32 HRs
and your wOBA is .328, you have problems
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Jesus christ
Enter vivaelpujols
My great wit allows me to interject that by assuming the partakers of this conversation are inbedded and perhaps romantically entangled, rather than indeed, the truthful observation that they are both platonic and standing upright. Great comedy may be produced!! -Aranathor
And, by the same token
batting average means nothing, but a .198 batting average is too low.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
So, Reynolds had a .198 BA and a .328 wOBA (which is slightly above average).
He made the hits count, didn’t he?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
very efficient
when he bothers to contact the ball, it goes a long way
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
so he's an even more extreme Adam Dunn?
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
right
I’m kinda bad at just evaluating offense or defense one at a time
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Similar hitting profile to Dunn, Cust
High BBs, high Ks, high isolated power – high TTO (three true outcomes).
I have read that K rates have a slightly positive correlation with ISO.
that would make sense, since they are swinging harder
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Swinging harder doesn't give you plate discipline, though
Shrug. I think people get way too worked up about Ks.
my thing with K's is that you are not putting the ball into play, which may cause errors (in addition to possibly being a hit)
but then again, a lot of the high K guys are slow, so they are avoiding GIDPs
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, just ask Vlad.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Only Carlos Pena can compete
His numbers were .196 BA, .326 wOBA. But he hit a slightly less sexy 26 HRs.
Nobody else is even close.
by JWO on Dec 6, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
still
his BABIP for the last four years
.378
.323
.338
.257
one of these is not the same
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
There is literally. . .
no player in the history of MLB for whom BABIP is less relevant than Mark Reynolds.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
when it comes to the difference between a .260ba and .198BA it does
which is the difference between being traded for two relievers and getting a fat extension
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Umm. . .
Most Ks in major-league history means that BABIP is less relevant for Mark Reynolds than for any other player in major league history.
Another way to say it is that regressing to the mean BABIP will mean less to Reynolds’ batting average than it would to any other player.
by SouthsideCardsFan on Dec 6, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
yes I know what a TTO player is
that said a lot of GM’s want 3B with the slash line of .279/.349/.495 while very few would want a .198/.320/.433 line and BABIP has a lot to do with that, even if it means less to him than anyone else
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
is "every" an option?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
I imagine someone's already made this point
but 7 years, $126m for 31-year-old, perenial 5-WAR corner outfielder Jayson Werth suddenly makes 7 years, $120m for 29-year-old, perennial 6-to-7-WAR corner outfielder Matt Holliday look an awful lot better….
That said, I don’t actually think the Werth deal is, as some have characterised it, anywhere near the worst in baseball. It’s not as bad as the Ryan Howard deal (honestly, the Phils would’ve been better off just giving Howard’s contract to Werth, as I think Werth will be more valuable for the next 5 years), and it’s nowhere near as ugly as A-Rod’s contract.
Still bitching to contact.
I would definitely agree that it isn't the worst in baseball it is maybe the 5th worst contract
on the east coast. That said it’s incongruity seems to blow everyone away(the Nationals? really?) I would argue that it shows why Washington is behind the Rays, KC, and Pittsburgh curve in turning around a losing franchise.
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Well... they're on the cusp of being a good team
They probably value those extra wins from being an 82 win team to an 87 win team more than, say, the Red Sox, who would go from an 90 win team to a 95 win team
I dunno I’m just spitballing
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Cusp, or 3-4 years away but need to keep people interested?
the Nationals need butts in the seats and have a huge advantage of being in a recession proof environment packed with the ideal baseball fans(college educated, with an entertainment expense account). If they start selling out they could easily become a 135 Million+ payroll but I don’t think Werth has the star power to do that yet.
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
on the flipside
Werth could speed up their competitiveness
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't get this pun at first
and then I realized it wasn’t a pun.
Too much for one day.
I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!
I think the group got it's money's werth out of the puns
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
Agreed - its the source
of the contract, Washington, that is the shocker. If the Yankees made a contract like this, who cares, but the Nats? This is a third of their payroll last year.
Here is a list of some contracts and their value. (I always knew we were very lucky to sign pujols to his current contract.) I think the case can be made that there have been much more horrible contracts.
Now watch them go out
And sign Carl Crawford. You laugh, but the Washington market is ridiculously huge. If people got baseball fever, the Nats could support a $120M payroll without breaking a sweat.
by JWO on Dec 6, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
if that team gets hot, gets into the playoffs three or four years in a row
they will immediately vie for NL’s biggest payroll
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Yes
There is so much money in the Washington, DC area. I am not all that surprised by the Werth contract, really. It was only a matter of time before the Nationals started going after big free agents like this, in my opinion. Yes, they have to deal with nearby markets, but that’s not the biggest deal in the world.
The Nationals could be a competitive team during Werth’s stay there. They’ve had lots of draft picks, and they could draw in lots of money as you state.
As an aside, I hate hate hate the whole “well, I guess Werth doesn’t care about winning!” trope. First of all, they could be a winning team in the fairly near future. Second, this cuts both ways. If he had signed with the Red Sox, how many of the same people would be saying “man, it sucks that big free agents just always go to rich teams like the Yankees and Sox all the time”? Many, I’d wager.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
and it is like 17.5 per not 25
the Baltimore market is there for the grabbing as what are the odds the Orioles make the playoffs in the next ten years
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
The Orioles have averaged
69 wins a season for the past decade. To put it in perspective, the absolutely dreadful Pittsburgh Pirates have averaged 67 wins over the same period of time. And Baltimore spends literally three times as much money as Pittsburgh.
Let me be partisan and frank: the Orioles are absolutely wretched.
by JWO on Dec 6, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
and not likely to get too much better anytime soon
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I actually think the nats can compete this year
and could be the best team in the East in 2012, with a bit of luck and investment.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
The get Jordan Zimmermann back, I think
and have two legit stars in Werth and Ryan Zimmerman, and the makings of a decent pen.
I don’t think they’ll win the division but I think they could be around .500. Once Harper and Strasburg are there, watch out…
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 7, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
the Phils went with marketability over on the field production there
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
they also went with stupid over smart since they grossly overpaid Howard
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
This via Rotoworld
According to Yahoo’s Tim Brown, the Cardinals and Mariners are interested in free agent Gregg Zaun.
Zaun would be in line for more playing time in Seattle, where he would likely share time with Adam Moore. The Cardinals are looking for a veteran backup that would give them a little more offense than the Jason LaRues and Gary Bennetts have provided, and Zaun would be a fit. Yadier Molina catches more innings than anyone, though, so he’d be riding the bench most of the time.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 6, 2010 4:52 PM EST reply actions
That last statement would not be true
But I like Zaun, for cheap
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
If the Cards continue to use their backup catcher as sparingly as they have in recent seasons,
then bringing in Zaun doesn’t make a whole heck of a lot of sense to me. But, if bringing in Zaun signals a change in the way they utilize their second-string backstop, then it makes much more sense.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 6, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
They better not
Or Yadi will be burned to a crisp by the time he’s 30.
by JWO on Dec 6, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Bryan Anderson?
is it a disease to use your fucking farm? This kind of shit is really starting to piss me off….
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
zaun is much better
if he only costs a mill or so it’s a good move. I was quite keen on him last year. He should probably be a starter somewhere, though.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Zaun's 40
coming off of shoulder surgery.
Our backup catcher is going to have to have a career ending injury on the field for Bryan Anderson to get a chance. Well that AND no one in the minors who is related to a previous member of the Cardinals.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
I really don't get the backup catcher thing
unless they actually reduce Yadi’s playing time. are they oblivious to Anderson’s hitting? would Zaun hit better? catcher is an important position though, I suppose.
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
im pretty sure they stated they wanted to give Yadi more rest this year as he was “worn down” at the end of the year
The organization's treatment of anderson
Is fucking sickening
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 6, 2010 9:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Bryan Anderson has been one of my pet prospects...
but he hasn’t exactly broken the door down. He was falling off prospect lists year before last and while he rehabilitated himself somewhat this past year, it’s not like he’s some top 100 prospect.
It’s anecdotal of course but I remember one game last year where he got the start, and he was throwing it around the field like it was a little league game.
Anderson should just catch Lohse every game next year. He won’t have to worry about catching the ball since it’ll be going the other way before he has the chance.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 6, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think if they play him, he should catch when a tough RHP is on the opposition mound
Yadi doesn’t hit righties particularly well, but should never sit against lefties. The beauty of having a “platoonable” backup catcher.
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 7, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
it's mostly because if they want a backup, they go vet
Miles AND Feliz over Greene, Winn over Craig, and LaRue over Anderson plus Suppan > Walters
out of the farm players on the team, most were given shots when the Cardinals were not good and are now considered “vets” (Skip is probably the perfect example)
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
Walters sucks
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 6, 2010 9:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Compared to what?
His SSS MLB numbers are better than Suppans, he’s 25, and has done well in the MiLB.
they just like to introduce them very slowly unless they impress right away
i.e. Pujols, Freese, JJ
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
introduced slowly?
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
well i meant the opposite of JJ, Pujols
in that they did not impress right away so they introduced slowly – so yeh
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
Pujols would have been introduced slowly if Bonilla had been healthy.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
Apparently the Mariners were the other team deep in talks with the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez
Well that would’ve been unexpected
Zduriencik’d
http://twitter.com/#!/BNightengale/status/11889434358185984
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Indeed.
NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!!
by The Spanish Inquisition on Dec 6, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
oh, and classy guy, that Brad Mills
“You can’t wish the best for him because he’s on the other side.”
your team let him go, it’s not like he left you. really sounds like they’ve abandoned the catalyst of their offense the past half-decade. hope that doesn’t sit well with astros fans
Kyle Lohse has a No-Trade Clause.
It probably would have until he signed with St. Louis.
Berkman said midseason in public that the Astros should move him if it would help the team.
It was probably a PR move to keep the heat off of the FO. Oswalt made similar statements too.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
so he's Stavinoha's replacement?
big improvement! much more “professional”!
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
i don't think we'll see him swinging from his knees though
otherwise it’ll be two years in a row our ~$8mil investment goes down for the season
Kyle Lohse has a No-Trade Clause.
yeah, I don't he'd be willing to propose to the ball
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
According to Project Prospect, Shelby Miller is 8th in overall future potential
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Also #3 overall pitching prospect
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
people like numbers like 108 from the left side
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
He'll have to dial it down...
to avoid walking 5 per 9 (I suppose). Plus Dusty can be counted on to do a bad job handling him. He’ll end up a very expensive Carlos Marmol.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
And on montero
He’s probably a DH, can’t rate him too highly
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 6, 2010 9:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Project Prospect is just...
different. Honestly, Adam Miller has an explanation for everything and apparently he talks to a lot of scouts but… Delgado over Teheran? Okay…
Fire John Mozeliak
They apparently weight floor more than other prospect sites
And who the hell is Delgado?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
also, Matt Moore is the second best pitching prospect but the 13th best for upside?
what do they like, his floor?
Fire John Mozeliak
Since I know little about prospects, I kinda like to see dissenting opinions
I get tired of seeing the parroting that goes on so often. But I can’t defend or criticize their arguments since I don’t understand prospect-watching well enough.
Albert Pujols does not have "down" years. He has "~6 WAR" years.
Kansas City looks dangerous
Four players in the Top 25 prospects. And they’re likely to pick 1-2 more up with a Greinke trade. Maybe someday they’ll be scary. Maybe.
by JWO on Dec 6, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the link
Yeah, that’s our OFP (Overall Future Potential) list. It’s basically ceiling-only prospect rankings.
Chapman has a ton of upside, but I’m not sold on him sticking as a starter. He won’t be as high on our Top 25 prospect list as he was on our OFP list.
I think Montero has the best to be special even if he’s only a DH.
Purple-haze, we look at talent differently than some of the other publications out there, but I’ve found that we think on the same frequency as quite a few scouts.
We like that Matt Moore has thrown a lot of innings without any significant injuries — that I’m aware of — and has an awesome fastball and curve. But there are some higher upside prospects in the minors.
AdamWFoster on Twitter
Projectprospect.com Founder
Brewers-Dodgers talking Fielder...
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/news/story?id=5892211
this would be amazing… get His Fatness out of the division and lock up the Dodgers 1B job for a while.
Save Boog
Fielder for Loney and Broxton?
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU that’s a ridiculous trade
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Teams in our division do more crazy stuff than any other I think...
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
Fielder has been worth
4.5 WAR the past four years. Loney and Broxton aren’t goose-liver, but sounds like a bad deal for Milwaukee to me.
by JWO on Dec 6, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Small error
4.5 WAR each year. Very important point. ;-)
by JWO on Dec 6, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
i thought it might be a cash-saving step, but both are somewhat expensive. broxton makes $7m next year.
loney is up for arb and will probably cost ~$4-5m. Fielder will be expensive, but he’s also quite good.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Loney is as meh as first basemen can get
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Your face is as meh as a face can get.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
That's What Sheckie Said
Mike Shannon: "That strikeout was brought to you by...by...well, I don't know what it was brought to you by!"
John Rooney: "It wasn't brought to you by anything Mike."
Your mom didn't think so last night
She quite liked it
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
My mom is blind.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
I can't think of a response that doesn't take this conversation over-the-line
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
It's the equivalent of my mom's dead....
do you dare cross the line? You haven’t offended the internets since last week, you’re probably ok.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
but Fielder is another homerun guy....
I say Moz tries to beat it and offers up Rasmus and Ryan….Berkman in LF, Fielder in CF and Holliday in RF!!!!! Best outfield EVER!
by mick311 on Dec 6, 2010 5:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
My only response for this is
Pray for ground balls. A LOT of ground balls.
by JWO on Dec 6, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Braun at 2B, Howard at SS, and Carlos Lee at 3rd.
Yes, pray for groundballs. A LOT of ground balls.
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
You know what's funny....
Carlos Lee looked really good at 1B this year. I heard him say during a postgame interview that he was an infielder all through the minors and never played OF before he got to the majors.
The Stros really should put him at 1B next year, IMO. He looked like a natural out there.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 6, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
They moved Lee to 1B AFTER they acquired Wallace
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
Brendan Ryan for the Walrus.
How weird that would be.
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
then resign Miles to offset Prince's lack of grit
To appease Tony…then open up the starting SS to Miles/Theriot and our lineup will really be set!
by mick311 on Dec 6, 2010 5:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
oh it would be atrocious for the Brewers
Isn’t the going rate for someone like him a top 50 prospect, and two other decent prospects (ie wallace, mort, pete or kelly, rizzo, fuentes). Loney is a non-tender candidate and Broxton is a one-year $7 million guy who is useless for a no-hope team like the Brewers.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
that'll never happen
i guarantee it!
Still bitching to contact.
by Felonius_Monk on Dec 6, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Haudricourt says it's a false rumor
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
if you can't get enough me
I’m now writing about the Cardinals and/or Rams once a week for St. Louis Magazine’s SLM Daily blog. This week: Ryan Theriot.
Have you figured out a way to get credits
for all of this writing, because otherwise, I don’t see how you have any time for school.
Asshattery: it's an epidemic.
Second base….I’ve played second base, how hard can it be? -TLR
Also, Dave Concepcion.
hey, I'll have you know I was contractually obligated to write about them
when it was assumed they were still terrible. I’m talking all the way back in July of 2010.
wow...
that’s quite a leap of faith. Wasn’t AJ Feeley the starter back then?
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
They use the term "local" in your description pretty loosely, no?
PS good luck with the gig.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
so very cold
why does everyone hate RBI’s?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
sauce gets all over my fingers.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
rubs: more an "out" than an "in," yes?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
I think that they are fun to look at
but to disparage a player for not having large rbi totals that is on a team that has a lot of good hitters is just asinine
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure this was probably already discussed earlier
But I just got done listening to Bernie’s interview of TLR….some pretty damn strong comments regarding Ryan, “if he came back it would definately be in a utility role, and I just don’t know if he would be motivated in that role to come to the park everyday…..it may be best for him to get chance elsewhere”…..I was holding out hope Ryan would still be on the team to start the year and then have a chance to win his job back. Tony sure didn’t sound too promising.
What was really funny though, was Tony talking about Tallet. Bernie asked TLR about Berkman’s character and Tony kept going on about how great all the guys Mo added this year were, Westy, Theriot, and Lance, but repeatedly stated, “well we really aren’t sure about Brian, we don’t know him”…..haha he said it twice, like even if you don’t know him why in the hell did he keep saying that??? Did anyone else notice that?
by mick311 on Dec 6, 2010 7:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions
i don't get it either
that was from bernie, so i’m not taking that too seriously
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
Translation:
Not gritty enough.
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
ah, he's saying sometimes he doesn't bring the grit with?
he leaves his grit-self behind on some days?
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
wow
tony thinks that he won’t “come to the park everyday” if he’s in a utility role? sometimes I just hate this guy
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
yeah when i read that quote i thought, you dont even know Boog ! TLR =clueless sometimes
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Because we here on VEB
We know Boog. We’re Boog experts!
Well sure, we’ve never met the guy, but whatever, we know that he makes funny videos.
how many of us would think he wouldnt be motivated to be a utility man ?
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
how many of us have spent more than an hour with him as a person?
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
somehow i think its a no-brainer as to his motivation level to get his job back
thats all i was saying yo
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
i would agree but there is absolutely no way we could know that for sure
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
true, maybe he's a giant asshat in the clubhouse ,at home and off the field
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
I cant understand the guy goes through the years in the minors to come up at an older age
and then demands to start…or just goes home?
That just doesnt make sense
Ironic that Tony would state
Boog would not play as well if he was forced into a competition or threatened with less playing time, yet all he did with Boog was threaten to take away playing time if he didn’t perform.
Also, where is the “defense up the middle!” philosophy that led us to the Cesar Izturis signing back when?
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
the guy airs his dirty laundry in the press
that’s just not cool
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, your last sentence illustrates one of the many inconsistencies
sometimes they need to be less reactionary and just stick with the plan. with Berkman in the outfield they need to play boog at short now more than ever
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
thats exactly right
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
And don't get me wrong,
I understand that a strategy to win will change from year to year depending on what players are available and the farm system and the make up of the team, etc etc…
BUT why the flip flop in the infield? Cardinals have always valued defense at certain positions: catcher (Pags, Matheny, now Molina), CF (Flood, McGee, Edmonds, now Rasmus), SS (Smith, Renteria, Izturis, Ryan, now Theriot?!), and 2B (Javier, Herr, Vina, Grudzielanik, now Schumaker?!). Just doesn’t really match up to me.
PS. I know I cherry picked players from the past and present. However I still think it shows the point that at historically strong positions the Cardinals are getting away from the defensive support structure they normally rely heavily on.
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
Also,
please note I just used C and CF to further my point that they still rely heavily on defense at other key positions, but have just now decided to let the middle IF go…
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
I thought managers
by definition, managed people and situations like that. Everybody wants to play every day. We’ve got a 2B playing SS, and an OF playing 2B, and a 3B without any ankles……Can’t you dangle the “work hard and you’ll get your chances” carrot? Ryan would seem to be an ideal utility man with his skillset, and our series of question marks across the infield.
by Merry CRasmus on Dec 6, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
the whole interview was really wierd
Bernie also asked him if he was worried about Berkman’s defense, and Tony said “Berman’s an athelete”…and essentially that’s why he will do fine in RF. He didn’t seem very hot on the idea of moving Matt. He praised Holliday and Schumaker the whole interview, esp Holliday’s defense, but had nothing good to say about Colby.
When Bernie asked him about the lineup, he actually took a shot at Colby too. He said “Lance is good enough to hit anywhere because of his OBP”, but that Lance would provide Holliday the same protection in the lineup that Holliday provides for Pujols, “protection in the 5th spot that Colby just doesn’t provide at this point in his career”…..although, to his defense TLR did mention that “Colby’s legs” would be an asset in the 2nd spot.
by mick311 on Dec 6, 2010 8:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
did he really call him Berman ? or was that a typo
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
since Holiday is a long term fixture they dont want to monkey with positioning?
(I have no idea if RF, LF makes much diff)
look, i honk the colby horn as much as anyone
but i don’t think it’s unreasonable to project berkman as the better hitter. berkman is a top-10 hitter of the last decade. colby had a nice, if inconsistent and likely luck-driven 2010. there’s a chance he’s a better hitter than berkman next year, but if i want to bank on who is going to provide better “protection” for holliday, i’d say berkman
i also think that colby’s skillset translates better higher in the lineup than lower in the lineup. high power, but with high K and BB rates means he’s not going to have high RBI totals. meaning he’ll be better at being driven in than driving them in
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
check the quotes
point was that i think colby is probably a better #2 hitter than ol’ berk dawg
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
yeah but you want the higher OBP guy batting 2nd
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
all else being equal, yes
but all else is not equal
where’s that lineup estimator thing? let’s run it with the two scenarios
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Just google Baseball Musings lineup analysis
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
okay
the basbeall musings thing like the two lineups exactly the same. 5.327. using bill james projections for everyone, wainwright’s 2010 numbers for the pitcher and colby’s fan projections
if i use colby’s bill james projections (lower), the lineup analysis likes berkman in the 2 hole to the tune of .002 runs per game better. according to this, i’d say it’s a wash
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
fwiw, i know not much
Using last year’s stats this is what it spits out.
Berkman
Albert
Freese
Rasmus
Holliday
Yadi
Skip
Wainwright
Theriot
No way in little kitty and puppy hell will TLR put that lineup out there
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
since Berkman is the better hitter he should hit 2nd
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
I think speed would be an asset no matter where you bat
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
he also let loose an evil laugh a couple times too taking about Boog
that’s bullfuckingshit
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
I really don't like TLR at this point
and I don’t see it getting any better. That prima dona really needs to move on.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, this is pretty good so far.
Bernie asks about Berkman’s arm, TLR describes it as “playable,” then says this:
“Normally what happens is the guy with the better arm tries to make those extra throws and they, the guy that got the base hit takes the extra base.”
You heard it first, folks: having a better arm is a negative.
unless you're rick ankiel during that one crazy game in colorado a couple years back
his two throws to third in that game made my summer (/hyperbole, kinda)
by peach concrete on Dec 7, 2010 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
gave Taveras a fear boner
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
yes, and you NEED to watch The League
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
i remember yelling then jumping up and scaring the cat and dogs, lots of barking
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 7, 2010 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
those were the two greatest throws i've ever seen
no byperbole
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
glaus man the look on his face
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 7, 2010 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
best i could do
a full game recap. a bit of a blast from the past. holliday playing for the rockies, izturis, looper, barton
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
there was supposed to be a link accompanying this post
http://mlb.com/video/play.jsp?mid=200805072654685
Stand inside an empty tuxedo with grapes in my mouth, waiting for Ada
twatter
Is that the same interview
where he (TLR) says that Tyler Greene has a place on the team? I’ve wondered if that was part of the reason that Boog became expendable. Tony (and maybe others) feels that Greene can provide the same overall value as Brendan but without the (to him) annoying habits/personality.
This seems to support that as part of the equation.
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 7, 2010 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
And by comfortable you mean
A) we’re going to sign Hudson and DFA Schumaker?!
B) Descalso is secretly the favorite to win out of ST?!
Sigh.
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
Schumaker would be better than Descalsco
don’t get the love for him to be honest
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
The favorite player on an NFL team is
the backup QB.
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
"The Brendan Ryan situation" ya mean this , Mo?
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 8:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Ozzie Guillen wishes that he was Jayson Werth's agent, or his wife
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 8:27 PM EST reply actions
why would he want to be jayson werth's agent's wife?
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
not what I said
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Ozzie tweet
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Craig Calcaterra
Ozzie Guillen is talking to the media. Asked what he thought of Jayson Werth’s contract: “I wish I was his agent. Or his wife.”
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
actually not an ozzie tweet, but yeah
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
I know when I think Ozzie Guillen, I always think correct grammar and clarity of expression.
by peach concrete on Dec 6, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i'ma rec it
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
just ran across the undead theme in yesterday's thread
I’ve made a compendium of undead creatures (which is by no means exhaustive)
vampire
zombie
ghoul
lich
wight
wraith
ghost
werewolf/lycanthrope
shade/shadow
mummy
ghast
skeleton
banshee
feel free to add any other supernaturally reanimated creatures at whim
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 9:12 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
lephrechaun
demon
fairy
Aaron Miles.
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
none of those are undead
except maybe miles
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Are werewolves really undead? I know they're supernatural, but when did they die?
by peach concrete on Dec 6, 2010 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
or can undead also refer to never being born? aka demon...
So is a werewolf born or is it simply “created”
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
They would be about like vampires, in that they bite you, you get infected
and essentially die.
You're the fail to my win?
"There is not a better feeling in the whole world than knowing that you are the best team in both leagues."- Bob Forsch on winning the 1982 World Series.
by MaytheForschbewithyou on Dec 6, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
No, werewolves are not the risen dead / undead.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Dec 6, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
What are your thoughts on weresharks?
Also, Hengeyokai ?
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Dec 6, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
i think weresharks have it pretty tough.
not nearly as tough as werewhales, though.
i think hengeyokai are kind of douchey.
depends on who's fictional universe one's in I suppose ;)
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Did you check out the other thread from last night?
Y2S posted some great Japanese ones.
by peach concrete on Dec 6, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
did not see that
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Freaky vampire thingie- the penanggalan
According to the folklore of that region, the Penanggalan is a detached female head that is capable of flying about on its own. As it flies, the stomach and entrails dangle below it, and these organs twinkle like fireflies as the Penanggalan moves through the night.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Dec 6, 2010 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
According to Heroes of Might and Magic
Bone Dragons
/geek
There are others, but most of them are just different names for what’s already on your list, like Spectre, or Revenant.
"I actually used about nine pitches--two different fastballs, two sliders, a curve, a changeup, knockdown, brushback, and hit-batsman" - Bob Gibson
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 6, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
oh yeah
forgot about the bone dragon! which originated in AD&D forgotten realms, I believe
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, and possibly, the Vindow Viper.
Too stupid and sissy-like to say that you want out.
You make the eyes of a million girls and think you'll make them shout.
by The Continental on Dec 6, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
do you need a lobotomy to be a sportswriter?
jayson stark started thinking about the werth deal and its impact on carl crawford’s bargaining, and somehow came to the conclusion that crawford is worse off because jayson werth signed a big contract.
“When I heard people saying how great the Werth contract was going to be for Crawford, I thought, ‘Hold on,’” the agent said. “I mean, it is, obviously. If that’s what Werth is getting, he should get more. But here’s the question: If the price just went up, who can pay it?”
Exactly.
The realistic effect of Werth’s mega-contract is that it might actually give Crawford fewer options, not more.
this is a classic case of thinking too hard. yes, it allows crawford to ask for more money and more years. and yes, only a few clubs will pay that much money. but you know what? he has all the options he had saturday PLUS any extra ones opened up by the werth deal, including that the yankees will give him an even more ridiculous contract. that’s like worrying because the value of your house went from $300,000 to $400,000 and worrying who will buy a $400,000 house. well, obviously someone will, otherwise the value would not have risen. if you can’t sell your house for $400,000, you can always go back and sell it for $300,000. the whole notion doesn’t make sense.
"We were men - flesh and blood - and we played baseball in the sunshine. We hit doubles off the wall, slid hard into second base. We had fights, and we made love. We sang songs and prayed on Sundays. . . . We felt pain. And we felt joy. There was a lot wrong with the world. But we weren't sad, man. We had the times of our lives." Buck O'Neil, from "The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O'Neil's America."
Maybe they think...
Crawford will have to do a Beltre because he can’t be behind Werth in the pecking order. Can’t see that, but who knows. Stark thinks too much b/c quantity is all that’s left if you don’t have quality.
Screw you, you freakin stats nerd
I may be forgetful
but I feel like there’s a lot more wringing of hands regarding Werth’s contract compared to Ryan Howard. And frankly, I just don’t get it.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
You are absolutely being forgetful
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I can't tell if you're bullshitting me (like you normally do) or not.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
No, people HATED HATED HATED HATED HATED the Howard contract
Everyone.
This Werth contract is kind of bad, but only on the years
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Did rival GMs come out with all these WTF quotes
or were they simply too busy laughing to be quoted? I guess it’s the marginally defensible contracts that make things harder rather than the really outrageously terrible ones.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
When was the Howard extension given?
Part of the issue may be that every GM has a microphone in his face right now given the winter meetings so there’s just more coverage in general and opportunities for GMs to be quoted.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 6, 2010 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe other GMs just aren't as badass as Alderson
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Sandy Alderson was not a GM back then
but henceforth, I expect witty zingers from him every time a massive contract is signed for an inadvisable amount of time/dollars.
Fire John Mozeliak
it was mid summer & everyone was like WTF
but no GM’s let loose with WTF quotes. they were all to busy laughing & saying the phillies just bent the Cardinals over
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
HFS
TLR is actually going to get rid of Boog, isn’t he? Sickening
"Albert hits good pitches hard and bad pitches even harder. And when he gets in the batter's box, if you pray, then you start praying. And if you don't pray, you think about starting."--Brian Bannister
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 6, 2010 10:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
i'm afraid so , i wish SF would swoop on that , at least i could still watch him play
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to see him go to a team that will contend and where he will get media coverage to
eventually earn the Gold Gloves he deserves.
So San Fran, Atlanta, idk….just someplace that will appreciate him.
Bob Feller is THE prime example of a cranky old man...working with him a 8:00 AM has to be one of the most dangerous jobs in America.
idk it sickens me to hear Mo call it " the brendan ryan situation"
i didnt get any feeling of him staying in StL next season.
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
latin for "oh snap bitch"
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 6, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
did you mean to reply to QED?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
yes idk what happened ?
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 7, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
If he went to SF then I guarantee you I could fix his swing
Torres could get me access or else he could just learn what he needed to from Torres.
I hope he gets traded for a better SS than Theriot
At least then, it’ll force Theriot over to replace/platoon with Skip.
by Willie McGee's Twin on Dec 6, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno
it sounds like Mozeliak is at least saying that there’s a chance he’ll remain on the team. I am hopeful they won’t trade him away for nothing.
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, he's said that a couple times...
this evenings story indicates that we are now out of the Bartlett talks. I’m not sure how I feel about that. I don’t see any need for Theriot and Bartlett both, and I’m not sure if I prefer the fact that not getting Bartlett may make it more likely we keep Boog, or the fact that getting Bartlett would make it less likely that Skip starts at 2B.
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 7, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
I've been thinking it over - if they're going to trade Ryan
I’d like to see them target Alex Gordon. He can play 3rd. He can play LF/RF (to spell Berkman). I just can’t figure out what it would take to get it done. I think BOTH players could use a change of scenery, badly. I think Gordon still has good potential, but would cost us more than Ryan, for sure.
we already have Jay and Craig
and Greene
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Um, you're clearly not aware that the Royals have one Yuniesky Betancourt
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
how about a bullpen arm for Ryan?
or do you think we should just roll with what we got?
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
...don't really know why you're asking me this
But I realllllly want Ryan on this team
If we have to trade him, then I guess trade him for a David Freese-like prospect
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
just making conversation
I don’t really know why either
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
SANCHISE!!!
where’s mystery you or whatever his name is?
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
your boy
looks like poo tonight
/actually just turned the game on and doesn’t have a clue how it got to this point other than sanchez just threw an ugly pick.
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
Much better quarterbacks have looked like poo against New England
He’s not a good QB
He will be, though
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
no he won't
but you can keep telling yourself that
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
by stlcardsfan4 on Dec 7, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
I can't believe it is that lopsided
was expecting a good game
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 6, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
OT: i have an identity problem...
also, i’m quite intoxicated, surprise!
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
when i say 'identity problem'
i mean, i have a problem with identifying ANOTHER person, not myself. Althougth i know you love me mysterui… can’t wait for the awkward meet up in about 3 years time
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
i find this intriguing
what do you mean you have trouble identifying another person? are you having trouble identifying if someone is other than you, or naming them or what?
by peach concrete on Dec 6, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
as in, i met a VERY cute barman tonight
he gave me his name and told me to look him up on facebook, can’t find him though, which is very bad.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
Don't you have a boyfriend?
< /judgement>
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
this guy's straight, we just became friends is all, honest!!
but yeah, my bf situation is quite complicated. After not hearing from him at all for about 2 weeks he FB chatted me and said he was sorry but he’d been really busy with work, which is beleivable but does little to alleviate my pissed off-ed-ness. How’s things with the fianceé?
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
Good I suppose. Planning a wedding is nigh-impossible long distance
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
4 and a half months
QED
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
I do not know this acronym
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
quod erat demonstrandum
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Oh. Thanks.
So you planned it all in 4.5 months?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
yep, long distance too
her bridesmaids helped out some too
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
You think you're better than me?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
whatever it takes for you to hire me when you're gm someday
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
I hope you're okay with cleaning Matt Pagnozzi's jock strap
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
you're going to sign matt pagnozzi?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Yeah his defensive skills are amazing don't you know that?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
yes, yes he is, have you seen his wife?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
you suppose?
Dude, your engaged! that is the last step before tottaly giving up your bachelor-ness (and ability to experiment…) you shoud be more certain than that.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
Oh our relationship is perfect. She's just stressed that we haven't done enough yet haha
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
haha
women are all like that, always finding something to stress about, no matter how trivial
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
now, now
I’m going to go ahead and call FOUL on that one.
by peach concrete on Dec 6, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
sorry darling
i know women and they get stressed alot, they even seem to ENJOY it.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
God you're just so HONEST
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
No, i'm just SOOO drunk
the cute barman gave us a discount on vodka shots AND free redbull
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
he can be that honest because he has no desire to see them naked
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
by gdm426 on Dec 7, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah that's sort of what I was going for
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
it certainly helps trust levels
sometimes to the point of awkwardness…
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/11/16/1816799/understanding-dfawarp-a-primer#52105566
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
ooooooh
i have gossip about that female if anyone is interested!
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
Um
It’s like you don’t even know us
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Weeee
its like having a direct line to a bunch of queens!
i love you mysterui, in a platonic way, of course
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
But seriously, fucker
Where’s the story
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
ya i never got the full story behind that
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
what did you miss/want to know?
This is literally the only time (this week) you’ll get to find out.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
why she ended up in bed with you
knowing you’re gay, i just don’t get that unless she tried to get you to switch teams or is delusional.
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
we were both very drunk
and well, it was sorta my fault. we were having a sinciere heart to heart (about boys ironically enough) and well… we were sat next to each other on her bed and i was like…. fuck it. it ended as a long single (if you get my meaning) nothing to serious.
i was very gentlemanly (if i do say so myself). She couldn’t sleep and so got a pillow and tried to go to sleep on the floor. i picked her up, put her back in her own bed and went back to my room.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
you understand
but don’t you want to know the juicy gossip! (although its only really juicy if you actually know the people involved…)
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
You still not have told us the new gossip
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
she now has a boyfriend!
i was quite shocked cause he’s an ugly, boring muthafucka and she could do a LOT better, but there you go. way of the world. It also freaks me out because i was (probably) the first guy she saw without…. domestic coverings
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
have you told her any of this?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
nah, she seems happy enough
its her life. The guy is nice, just boring; very domesitcated.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
well if she's happy that's all that matters
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
i wonder if i tell women i'm gay if i'll get half the action you get?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
oh gdm
i get so much more attention from girls, its literally terrifying. they think im some sort of messiah.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
i was out with three of my straight mates tonight
got them in with 3-4 groups of girls through simply dancing with them then pulling the old “sorry, i’m gay, but my mate over here is veerrry into you….”
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
Hey I did that two nights ago
Only I used “I’m engaged”
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
you all need to hook me up
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
get your ass over to england
and you’ll be swimming in females
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
i have always wanted to visit the home land
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
blow the family savings on a plane ticket
whats the worst that can happen? we have minimum wage laws and everything
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
do you hang out at college bars?
i don’t want to be the creepy guy in his early 30’s trying to act all young & cool. i just don’t want to go to bed alone anymore
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
not really
gaybars here are full of all sorts, i tend to be popular with the older guys because of a) my ‘make ’em laugh’ attitude/motto and b) i kinda feel guilty about my dad.
But if you want to hit up straight bars thats always fun.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
There is so much going on in this post I can't even handle this
Do you mind expanding on your daddy issues? This sounds interesting
I understand if not
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
uuuhh dude
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/9/23/1706309/a-thank-you-from-me-to-all-of-veb
also six plus nine equal fifteen, its been QUITE A WHILE since that post
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
I completely forgot about this post =/
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to sound insensitive
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i dont expecte people to remember every single part of my life
(even though they should cause my life is awesome)
but yeah, don’t worry about it, i didn’t really want to announce to you guys what happpened cause its really depressing… and i could barely stand calling up my mates and telling them.
but, again, i really, genuninely appreicate everything you guys have contriuted for the last year or so. i know that for many of you this barely constitutes a hobby but for me this is a life line to a normal life.I especially like to thank; mysterui, Yadi2second, gdm, danup, tomcat, azruavatar, red baron… hell everybody.
i don’t think there is a better community on the internet than you guys i would very much like to meet you in person as soon as humanely possible.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
no worries mate
i went through hell with my dad & VEB was here. it’s what we/they do
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
isnt hitting up straight bars a little like
asking to get your ass kicked or worse?
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 7, 2010 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
i don't hit on the guys!
that IS asking for trouble. Just tend to look, there’s always a chance, in fact i reckon there was tonight but he was a) ugly and b) unsure/ just desperate. Straight joints are good because i can talk to/ dance with girls and just be camp
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
i've never been to a gay bar
it cracks me up single straight women flock to them though
i’m actually not much of a bar guy, but i’d probably go wherever, i’m easy
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
fair does
i hear that americans don’t really get the ‘pub’ thing, which is wierd. I mean whats better than going somewhere with the specific intention of getting drunk?
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
we call it college
"Thats fucking Little League shit , if you're going to flip the bat , I'm going to flip your helmet next time " Steve Kline at Jimmy Rollins in his rookie year.
by riftraftredbird on Dec 7, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
We have lots of bars
I just don’t know how it compares to Europe
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
ya i used to go out every night years ago
in my late teen’s early 20’s, now though it’s just not my thing anymore.
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
it doesn't at all
at least it doesn’t compare to Edinburgh
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Really depends where in Europe you are
and what type of establishment it is. For instance, I was at the campus bar at University College Dublin on the last day of finals. The students nearly tore it apart piece by piece. I was so entranced in this cross-cultural social observation that I forgot to even drink.
Gay is better
unless your fianceé is actually there at the time
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
well i'm intoxicated too. was last monday, and will be next monday
so if you got a problem, i got a problem
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 6, 2010 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
therefore niether of us have a problem
‘cause if i had an actual drinking problem i think i’d die of shame
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
i think i'd just drink more
/not really, maybe
by YesWeOquendo on Dec 6, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
The Cubs also offered Berkman 8 mil
and he took the Cardinals offer instead. News to me. Did anyone else hear this? Anyway, suck it, Cubbies.
I hadn't heard it, but just based on the near-future prospects of the two teams I don't know why he wouldn't
by BTown Birds fan on Dec 7, 2010 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
haha
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 7, 2010 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
oh bugger, its 6am
i should probably go to bed considering my alarm is going to go off in 4 hours…
I could just do a VEP and pull an all nighter, though i fear i don’t have his youthly spritelyness and i don’t want to be drunk in my lectures.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
Well looks like I'm pulling another one tonight
As I was weak of constitution and fell asleep as soon as I got home. Now I have a shitload of homework.
that's a bad cycle you're in....
all-nighter, pass out after school, all-nighter, etc…
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
My sleep habits have been fucked for awhile now
I just hope it all comes together tomorrow and I can go to bed at 8.
oh yeah i totally agree
i have a tendency to go to bed at 1-2 on school nights (wake up at 6) and go to sleep at 3-4 on weekends (wake up at 11-12)
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
What the fuck is wrong with you kids
I went to sleep at 11:00 every night
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Back in high school I worked my ass off
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
so did i but i still got c's, d's & the occasional b
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
i don't even know
i’m always pretty awake during this period though… i don’t force myself to sleep, i wait till i get tired and sometimes that takes a while
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
Weeeee
we can be utterly f***ed together!
notes the asterisks cause i know your young and impressionable
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
he's the same age as you isn't he?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
in my country at least
in the most glorious US of A i would still be underage, which is really wierd thinking about it.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
he is
he’s barely younger than me and I justed turned 18 not too long ago (here comes joke about how i could drink where you live…)
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
No jokes, just:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
that's cruel
but i would feel weird being able to walk into a bar and asking for a beer or something right now
probably a result of the society i live in – it would feel normal if 17 was legal limit
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
really?
i really can’t imagine life like that. Probably because since i turned 18 i’ve been drinking everyday
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
well that is a strong factor...
habitual activities don’t seem weird, they seem normal
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
True
but still, 18 has to be old enough for the govt. to consider you responsible. but saying that…. my testimony here probably begs to differ
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
so you're still in high school aren't you?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
man that's got to be so much fun
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
being a teenager nowadays is a lot more fun than it was in the 90's
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
are you kidding me?
hell if we had internet phones, texts, facebook, twitter, i’d be an entirely different guy. probably a whole lot happier too
and trust me, grunge women were overrated.
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
See, those things seem to me like they suck
It would be much more fun to form a crappy grunge band with your friends – I don’t know a single kid who is in a band these days.
dude where do you live
there are bands starting every day everywhere, the internet makes that even easier.
Grunge Girls nothing says hot like oversized flannel shirts, overalls, and corderoy
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
the guys from OK GO went to a pretty
exclusive prep school, a lot of talented musicians went to private school, then again if you school is decent sized you probably don’t know about two or three bands
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
no, i went to private schools
very christian ones mind you & there were still rock bands
every kid think their time sucks. only until you get a little older, get a little distance between you & your HS years & get some real world experience do you begin to realize you were probably wrong
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
you likely will be
it is tough to be ahead of the crowd in interests and perspective
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
you're older than your years
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
most of us are
i’m just saying now is probably not as bad as you think. one day you’ll look back fondly on these & your college years
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
I always looked forward to college
because I thought it meant getting away from all the “inferior” kids as my friend and I called them. I was unhappily surprised to see that many “inferiors” made it to college too. very unfortunate
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Well I don't care about getting away from them
But being able to a find a group of kids who think more like me? Yeah, that’s sounds good.
Also, my own dorm room. Not having to deal with stupid school bureaucracy, parents, being able to use my lit knowledge to get chicks, etc.
If you think HS bureaucracy is stupid...
wait until college…
Brendan Ryan is still a St. Louis Cardinal.
Aaron Miles is not.
I grew up in a small town and we had a grunge band
and a thrash band
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 7, 2010 2:23 AM EST up reply actions
some of my best friends were in a grunge band
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
huh
well, I actually hung out with some dudes who were in a grunge band in high school. and I’d go see this band Xpulsion that were from my hometown, they actually got somewhat popular in the overall area
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 7, 2010 2:25 AM EST up reply actions
mid 90s of course
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 7, 2010 2:25 AM EST up reply actions
my friends' band was called Media Frenzy
they aren’t together anymore, but i think they’re myspace is still up, lol
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
man i graduated in 2007
and there were a dozen or more at my hs and I only had about 1200 students at my hs
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
thought he was a couple of years younger
like 17?
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
And it wasn't even one of those
“I’m finally home, now I can rest” sleeps, it was one of those “music playing, lights on, trying to stay awake” sleeps. Very disappointed.
I remember literally never having homework in high school
…kind of like college
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
i have homework
i just don’t do it – well actually i don’t do my homework at home….
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
Well then do it
Try as hard as you fucking can in high school
Party at a fucking awesome college
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
it gets done one way or the other
i don’t cheat either… i have a study hall, activity period, and if necessary there are a few classes i can do homework in
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
He's got a point
i worked my f’n ass off to get into Uni. Now that i’m here and my 1st year doesn’t count to my degree (only need to pass with 40%) i can party my ass off as often as i want, like tonight for instance.
Skip Schumaker is not a scapegoat.
Forsooth and Verily
40%????
man i should have gone to school in England
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
you've gotta be kidding me
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
only 3 years for a bachelors degree?
how many credit hours?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
the problem is I'm already accepted into Mizzou and UCM
with a $4,000 scholarship to UCM and well Mizzou there is no hope for a scholarship….
so i have no motivation anymore
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
Well I usually just don't do it
But it’s starting to catch up to me this year. Before I was able to just fuck the homework, do well on the tests and get a B in the class. This year, I’ve been paying much less attention in class (well in three of them, in the other three I’m doing great – English, government, controversy) and I’m in danger of getting D’s.
If you'll indulge a teacher for a moment...
Get more sleep! Do your work, and do it well! Learn! Don’t drink!
That’s for all you young’uns out there
[Sorry, just had to get that out, just once.]
by peach concrete on Dec 7, 2010 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
you did that with fang last year if i remember correctly
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
frequently upon request during gamethreads in fact
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
yup - usually i only needle upon request
but i just couldn’t help myself this time
by peach concrete on Dec 7, 2010 1:59 AM EST up reply actions
you should be more assertive more often
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
you do smoke marijuana though
which is actually better than drinking (from a health standpoint)
oddly, i don’t smoke or drink, but i am a weed activist if there is such a thing
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
by stlcardsfan4 on Dec 7, 2010 2:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well to be honest
I legitimately find that smoking makes me smarter, or at the very least more creative. I often have a bowl before I do my English homework.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 7, 2010 2:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i had psychology class on marijuana
and it almost convinced me to start trying to use it because the downsides are minimal and the benefits are well really good
that’s right – school is close to convincing me to smoke marijuane
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
Yeah, that's my thinking
It’s not like I’m getting stoned every night. I little buzz once in while can’t be a bad thing for you.
I drink but don't smoke
Do I get your approval?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I'm 90% sure you have a stupid fat face
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
...Nope, it's all correct
I checked the linear weights and everything
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
by mysterui on Dec 7, 2010 2:14 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
last time I checked drinking was the thing that gave you a fat face
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 7, 2010 2:18 AM EST up reply actions
as long as you exercise you shouldn't get fat
weed gives you the munchies & causes you to eat a lot & just veg around the house all day
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
I'm pretty sure it also increases your metabolism
And I bike to school several days a week, so I get some excersize.
i don't know about that
all the people i knew who smoked were fatty fattso’s who sat around the house all day & played video games
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
i live in ohio, everyone is fat out here
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
sounds totally scientific
alcohol is packed to the brim with calories. plus it makes you hungry and you have to drink fluids
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 7, 2010 2:26 AM EST up reply actions
haha, you know me dude
i’m all science, facts & stuff
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
I totally dorked out there
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 7, 2010 2:36 AM EST up reply actions
you've come to the right place to be dorky
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
he's 17, he lives in SoCal, if he didn't smoke weed i'd be worried about him
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
by gdm426 on Dec 7, 2010 2:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A valid observation
I don’t post much during winter months. I have no excuse.
'Hold my stones!'
"Ernie Hayes is up there playing with his organ again." - Mike Shannon
I got 14/20
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -Isaac Asimov
17/20
i missed the horse (who I’ve never heard of), hockey player, and the fan one (also never heard of)
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
Before he went up, he went down...
Dolphin Hotel huh? Shouldnt he be staying at a Human Hotel?
And I’m done.
'Hold my stones!'
"Ernie Hayes is up there playing with his organ again." - Mike Shannon
here
and apparently 18 others besides us… http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=sm3vivaelbirdos&r=15&v=11
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
i spot mysterui
and probably landsickness, but on different pages
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
so Danup is stealing WiFi from freegracegospel.org?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
is danup in fort collins?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
yeah getting his masters at CSU
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
but he doesn't drink and he isn't single so it is kind of a waste
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
it usually puts me in seattle
Clearwire must have their DNS there, cause i get Seattle ads a lot too.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Who the hell is from Prague?
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
taipei?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
so, i know you can read veb in different languages, but what happens if you comment in madarin?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
do people in China or Taipei for that matter
type in romanized mandarin or in characters?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
They type literally what I just wrote
Then this thing comes up and they choose a character from that
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
oh yeah i remember that now from my korean pals
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
WTF? how can they tell that?
i’m glad i’m not on there
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
so the guy from Fake teams was surprised to see Tulo drafted third
in this mock draft, it didn’t seem surprising to me am I just being a fanboy?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Meh I wouldn't draft any OF in the first round but if I did it would likely be him
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
that added with gonzalez's fall from grace
due to a drop in BABIP
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
alright I will take that bet
Carl Crawford finishes ahead of Cargo in what categories in order for you to win the bet?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
ummm...
I think he’ll have less stolen bases, a worse average, and a worse OBP….
he is seriously due at least like a .040 point drop in BABIP
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
in 2007 Carl Crawford had a
.315/.355/.466 with a .374 BABIP
in 2010 Gonzalez had a
.336/.376/.598 with a .384 BABIP why do you think one is seriously better than the other?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
why did you pick 2007?
in 2010, Crawford batted .306/.356 with a .342 BABIP
Gonzalez drops 42 points and he has an equal BABIP to what Crawford did last year… he’ll probably fall to at least that which would greatly diminish his value
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
Carl Crawford has
a career BABIP of .331 and a career OBP of .337 so you so he almost isn’t good
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
so you think gonzalez can keep a .384 BABIP?
good luck with that…
also Crawford improved from .290 to .309 to .331 to .348 to .355 in his first five years (next year he dropped to .319) and then he has been over .350 past two seasons
so his career isn’t indicative of his current talent level
also .331 is sustainable, .384 is not even close
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
of course it is unsustainable but
since he also is unlikely to continue with a 6% BB%, hits for power and is five years younger than Crawford I will take your bet
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
he's never really had an impressive walk rate either
and winner picks avatar?
and remember we are talking average and OBP and SBs so power in this case is irrelevant
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
I think we should throw out Hr and SBs
since both are clearly better than the other in that department
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
fair enough
average and OBP it is (if we split, then neither wins….)
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
and if you lose you have to change your name to Cardball
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
i changed my mind
change your name to SoonerfanTU for a month…. i’ll change mine to cardball for a month if you win
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
I don't mind
although we will have to change the capitalization to sneak it through
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Right but Crawfor hit .315 with a .374BABIP that year
then hit .307 when his BABIP “plummeted” to .342 the two are correlated but not exactly the same as take ten points from BABIP means take ten points from BA
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
re you accussing me of bad typing when I get fired up?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
No, it's jus that BABIP and batting average are 100% correlated
A drop in BABIP is accompanied by a drop in batting average, you can’t just use past data (in which other things change besides BABIP) to diminish that effect.
for instance, Crawford improved K rate
you can’t assume Gonzalez will do same just because he and Crawford had similarly lucky seasons
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
they are practically the same player
with gonzalez having more power, crawford more speed
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Right but Crawford and Gonzalez as elite speed
hitters who have line drive rates over 20% always have higher BABIP’s and they fluctuate wildly.
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
I would say that is fair
but would you predict a sub .300 BA?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
again I would take that bet
at least over under on .310
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
you would trade 20 points of BA and 17 HRs for 20SB?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Home runs are easily gotten elsewhere
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
Crawford is an amazing defender but their is one fantasy
category he beats Gonzalez in and not by an amazing amount.
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
For fantasy he should be that high
Cause he won’t get value for his defense and positional talent, right? He’s probably a top 10 hitter in baseball overall though.
yeah but who is the third best SS
my thinking is that it is easier to find a 950 OPS 1B in the later rounds than a 800OPS SS
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
i have run out of things to do online
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
because i'd rather do it than watch it
it’s empty & hallow & it can warp your mind about how things are supposed to work. i’d just rather not go down that road
i’ve been watching the world spin madly on for 8 f’ing years now. i’m sick of standing on the sidelines, put me in coach, i’m ready to play, today
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
when you're alone in the basement they are
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Funny or Die. com
then Netflicks
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
stumble upon is fuun
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
How about Chatroulette?
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
if you want to see dick, sure that's a great idea....
DONNIE FUCKING JONES FOR PRO BOWL!
by stlcardsfan4 on Dec 7, 2010 3:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hey it is either that or talk to one... the internet is a bit of a sausage fest
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
not so much "a" as much as "The"
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
by TomCat009 on Dec 7, 2010 3:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
really that is funny I just heard about it on Kevin Smiths podcast
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
ya it got shut down over a month ago i think
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
It is a really cool concept to bad they can't figure a way to keep it clean
well semi clean at least, lets say to the late night VEB level
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
These kids have found a way apparently
http://www.kxan.com/dpp/elections/local/webcam-whiz-kids-fight-obscene-chat
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
yeah me too
i’m really curious about how their filtering system works though.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
this is cool
http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/20eWqm/www.collegehumor.com/video%253A1931654
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
i thought ben folds was dead
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
I saw this response and I immediately knew what video was posted
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
So which one of you lives in Pleasureville?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
I live 20 minutes from Loveland but have never been to Pleasureville
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
pleasureville is one of the funniest town names i've heard
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
does sound a bit seedy alright
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
oh that's nice, you're mom finally has a roomie now
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
in all fairness I think she only visits there
but they did name a hotel suite after her
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
yep
fitting that it’s in KY
…see what i did there…
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
very, have you seen the women down there? oh man
UK girls are amazeballz with a capitol A
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
i have not
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
well you don't need to worry about that anymore now do you
seriously Lexington is a very beautiful area. especially if you like horses & bourbon, there’s tons of farms & distillery’s to visit. i love it down there
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
that sounds really nice
I’m definitely ready for a vacation
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Come to LA broski
You have 10 more days before I leave this godforsaken place forever
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
you're graduating already?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
awesome & congrats
what are you doing next?
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
you're graduating?
plans after?
Ugh, my finals are next week.
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Moving in with my fiancee in Springfield, MO
Well… unless I get the Cardinals job that I’m aiming for
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
yet another place i love
although it’s way too f’ing hot in the summer
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
you going to be there over Christmas?
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Yessir I am
Gonna be moving into our new pad
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
dude, i'll be there
dec 25-29
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
Let's grab a beer
I’m not even kidding. I might even still have my mustache!
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
springfield has some cool bars
tweet me if you get some free time, i’ll do the same
"...football games always make me thankful for two things:
1. Teams that pass the ball downfield.
2. Baseball games. "
--DanUpBaby
i should have followed my friend down there
dude is living it up, found his soul mate & has a great life down there
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
So Jason Werth signing results in 250 comments on Federal Baseball
three times bigger than any thread this week.
On VEB The Riot results in over 2000 comments(admittedly most OT) that team needs a fanbase
Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have? Frank Chance 1908
Nah, they're probably out banging chicks or something
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
maybe they have lives, maybe the collective of VEB needs to get one
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
alright, the pills kicked in, so i'm off to talk to the sandman
jolly good show VEB
you say it best, when you say nothing at all
parting is such sweet something, something, something
All I've got is a broken heart, memories & dreams that I can't drink away
Viva El Whatever The Shit Those Last 1200 Some Odd Comments Were.
"In 2035, 25 young men will be able to call themselves world champions. Some of those guys haven’t even been born yet. And some of them are Asian." -Mike Shannon
by Alxfritz on Dec 7, 2010 9:43 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
That is the perfect name for us
Of all sad words of tongue or pen; the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'
I wish I could move comments between threads
so that we could record VEB: Late Night to be it’s own soap-opera-type thread.
Silly humans, this world is for robots.
by azruavatar on Dec 7, 2010 10:46 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
lol
boog at shortstop makes the starting pitching a lot better
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 7, 2010 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
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